149: Everyone's on Vacation

0:00:00your shopping done I think but I haven't wrapped everything yet and so that

0:00:06always leaves me wondering like maybe I forgot something or somebody or I didn't

0:00:11get enough for somebody or something so it's always a baseline level of stress

0:00:15mode is very worried about not having gotten somebody something or enough

0:00:19that's why you have a spreadsheet to track these sorts of things that would

0:00:24be wise if I was thinking that far ahead yes I will I agree that that's the kind

0:00:29of thing I should do I assume john has just a series of scripts to figure out

0:00:33what to buy people now I don't do anything I was thinking maybe you would

0:00:37have just a large number of Windows I've met that would be merry you like maybe

0:00:42like one window that has like 50000 tabs right in it that was just like one tab

0:00:47for every person I've ever known for each gift that you might someday maybe

0:00:49wanna get them plus the one you did get them to the path for comparison a

0:00:52reference accident does make a lot of money that you need burndown chart for a

0:00:56number of gifts you have to buy other people

0:00:59burndown chart I was meant to say there's no way market knows that it is a

0:01:03nice who doesn't like business yeah not suffer development thing but also a

0:01:08business thing what happens in a burned-out try to me it sounds really

0:01:11fun and getting it isn't now it's not so you're looking for

0:01:14think it's because they look like flames of hell like a layered bar chart but

0:01:18you're trying to make it go down to 0 like you're trying to make all these

0:01:21different things like how many of Acts how many or how many of the little bars

0:01:24over time trying to do is drop them all to hear anybody and he gets the call I'm

0:01:30in the midst of reconciling our visa bill which is making me mildly upset cuz

0:01:34it's the holidays like during the podcast I'm almost done if you want we

0:01:40can we can discuss watching paint dry as best they know this is hugely

0:01:43entertaining we can we can walk through a sort algorithm on the air and just

0:01:48like an example data set of a house or diagram sorts it out on super fun yeah I

0:01:53use this app called money while which is what a name just check your money down

0:01:57oh well I was like oh well at some point to leave right now it's a bucket

0:02:03full of money but anyway so I like for transactions away from reconciling my

0:02:08visa bill in the next to pay it

0:02:09delightful because of the holiday season now I'm broke the fact that your holiday

0:02:15purchases are already on a bill you've received means that you are way more

0:02:19ahead of the game that I well we should start with this is a monumental so this

0:02:29is a Christmas miracle to the best of my knowledge and i am not presently looking

0:02:32at the notes cuz I'm finishing writing spelling bees that bill but to the best

0:02:35of my knowledge still just how long it will take to you sit here and wait watch

0:02:41this and we can't watch has not seen anything boom reconciled done how does

0:02:45it feel to be reconciled so great except now I gotta pay is not cheap but you are

0:02:52reconciled that that is so it's like closure for all of your money or your

0:02:57saying goodbye to all of your money in a fully closed state that's true you could

0:03:01say I have some reconcilable differences but you reconcile them you have

0:03:04reconcile differences away waiting for that market in but I guess you just give

0:03:10up that was pretty proud of that anyway what the crap we talked about earlier

0:03:18outside do we are doing not have follow-up I should take a screenshot of

0:03:23our show notes where there is the heading follow up there is a single

0:03:27bullet and there is nothing else runs on vacation I think we had a couple of the

0:03:31shows were there was nothing that I can make something out of nothing but I need

0:03:34anything to make up is everyone is off and went on to star wars and on vacation

0:03:38and follow-up to that end can we establish that I have not seen Star Wars

0:03:44and I presume marco hasn't either and so I do not wish to talk about it and I do

0:03:47not assume Marco never will so that's true well actually I wanted to start

0:03:51this episode with with a bit of a game with a three truths and a lie on those

0:03:58things from corporate america as ice-breaker they use so so there's

0:04:04here's here's three truths three statements of these are true and one of

0:04:07them is allowing you to figure out which one is the understatement

0:04:10any of our any of these things store spotless no number one I wrote my first

0:04:16swift code not possible number two I played journey number three

0:04:23I went to see Star Wars and number for a start using Pinterest I went to see Star

0:04:29Wars the line because martin Dempsey things Casey I would concur with that

0:04:34but it's hard to vote against you actually writing like there's no way you

0:04:39for this way if you're such an old man that there's no way but I would have to

0:04:42agree with John that that that is the line that you you you have not seen Star

0:04:47Wars you should go with your instinct AC really useful Star Wars and I didn't I

0:04:53said what if I went today to a movie theater to see Star Wars wow how did

0:04:58that help whose idea was that I'm flabbergasted was actually my idea but

0:05:03she was also planning on going anyway so it's kind of mutual did you do this just

0:05:08so you can read the internet without worrying about spoilers or maybe tipped

0:05:11it was worried about the policy will part of it was because I like I

0:05:16basically has no podcasts left my podcast player that I can play without

0:05:21being about Star Wars

0:05:22everything that I haven't listened to this week is about Star Wars and I've

0:05:25listened to everything else so you actually concerned about hearing stories

0:05:28suppose that means like otherwise you'd like whatever star respond with

0:05:31something I don't care I'm never going to say it was the greatest thing is you

0:05:35know all of you Star Wars fans have been trying so hard to avoid spoilers to go

0:05:39to ridiculous lanes I successfully avoided any split about the movie simply

0:05:43by just not really caring about the movie

0:05:47I don't put any effort into avoiding spoilers but I went into the theater

0:05:50today knowing nothing about being pleasantly surprised by everything in it

0:05:55yeah i i i would say I've been avoiding spoilers but I haven't been going to

0:06:01particular links to do so it's just if i seemed like a tweet fly by the looks

0:06:05like it might be spoiler spoiler and then I'll just skip over it and I

0:06:10haven't been reading reviews or anything like that I'd ask friends that have seen

0:06:13it do you like it and that's all I've asked and you've got me some hints as to

0:06:18the quality of the movie but I've not seen it I'm hoping the air and I will be

0:06:22able to see it maybe even tomorrow actually but but I'm still avoiding

0:06:25spoilers and I think my time is running out because I think the Internet is

0:06:28kinda collectively decided from what I can tell that shortly after Christmas

0:06:31all bets are off in and everyone's going to talk about everything and that's

0:06:35that's part of why I went to see it because I'm fine ignoring major cultural

0:06:39events I've never seen any of Lord of the Rings never seen Harry Potter never

0:06:43seen Twilight anything like it looks like the big movie franchises have

0:06:47either never seen or seen some along time ago and never again let me help you

0:06:51Lord of the Rings big waste of time

0:06:53Harry Potter's pretty good reverse that please e-mail John anyway so but this

0:06:58one this one felt very very important to my circles like more so than those other

0:07:04ones did and also I i have seen movies I I did enjoy them you know I am A Star

0:07:10Wars fandom is not like a massive star wars Star Wars fan in general so I did

0:07:16want to see it at some point I was planning on watching it when it came out

0:07:19the video maybe or something I get on Netflix when I figure like it is going

0:07:22to be talked about so much

0:07:24and it's so important you know in in the in the circles that I know I live in

0:07:28that I figured I kinda had to go see it in the theater I should have gone the

0:07:33plain states in retrospect the links you would go to to prevent yourself from

0:07:40writing any swift that should have been the opposite I mean you have gone

0:07:45through some serious mental gymnastics in order to get to the point that you

0:07:48can justify not writing swift I didn't say I'm never ready for the time saying

0:07:52no transcript yet but I do intend to learn it probably when 3.0 comes out

0:07:56next year because they're doing a bunch of big changes to lead up to that well

0:08:00you could just change your mind about it recently like in the past like oh I did

0:08:03you know that Pakistan was like I'm not gonna lie within the open source thing

0:08:07came out and turned around so you're trying to do so but the real tell us

0:08:10that the fact that we're talking about star wars and that prompted you to do

0:08:13the crystal I think so I mean I already had the list I mean I knew you played

0:08:20journey and other ones are easy so I was just down to the swept in the Star Wars

0:08:23it just seems so crazy viewed actually the house and go to a movie theater to

0:08:29Pinterest thing didn't you didn't have any possible to Pinterest thing I know I

0:08:32know you to purchase and you know how do you know everybody here puppies

0:08:37that's right she did yes I I joined a bit I started to Pinterest account so I

0:08:41could collect pictures of puppies watches and things I want to buy for the

0:08:44house like pipe heating rap and the Icicle melting zigzag wired you put on

0:08:50the roof exciting stuff if you find good good pipe wrap whatever you wanna call

0:08:55it tell me because I have stuff around my business stuff you put around the

0:08:58pipes to keep the heat from Chris leaking out into the areas where the

0:09:02pipes goes right

0:09:03know it's it's too late to print them from freezing if you have a pipe in an

0:09:06uncertain space so it's like we have on the garage from forever ago its ancient

0:09:10you know two conductor cable too just like a heat wire that wraps in a coil

0:09:15around a pipe that runs through our garage is insulated said I could freeze

0:09:17that it has burned out and no longer heats so I'm looking at new solution to

0:09:23that and they're all basically scaring me into either not doing it or having

0:09:26electrician do it because in all basically says that these things are

0:09:30insanely dangerous and you will start fires and they all require insulation

0:09:33around the pipe and everything and yes I'm probably gonna actually outsources

0:09:36job but we will see

0:09:38living in the northeast is the best because you have to worry about BS like

0:09:41this winter

0:09:42not right but what you have really is is months of depressing evil terrible

0:09:48winter light season whereas I have this brief rest bit from from wonderful

0:09:53weather with slightly less wonderful weather and then it's back to wonderful

0:09:58weather again so you can you continue being smug up there and your when your

0:10:01tundra and how that works out it was wonderful there we went there in July I

0:10:06was I was really wonderful whether you had there was one such it was very hard

0:10:13when you get here even for us it was extremely hot also order to test this

0:10:17week that's the big week for you I killed the web fun on your website which

0:10:24by the way I don't really agree with I think that whatever font you have going

0:10:28on now

0:10:28not making me happy no i i don't think I found a solution that I am experimenting

0:10:32with Google web font and might lead to a different web font because the the

0:10:38service I was using the the heifer and Co

0:10:41their ideals and found them in a few benchmarks done by people have shown

0:10:46that typically their web surfing is not as fast as type kid or some of the other

0:10:52big web services and not as fast as as self hosting and stuff and they don't

0:10:57allow cell hosting they become a weird thing where they you have to go through

0:11:01their CDN but then it redirects to the font files on your server with no cache

0:11:05headers so that your meeting with clients make two requests one of them is

0:11:09going back to your slow server and not to their CDN to actually get the big

0:11:13files you know the big like 300 kilobytes where the files and no reason

0:11:17they're really good I really like this one fight they have a very nice funds

0:11:19over there but I'm going to look at other options now because they just it

0:11:24was just too slowly if you look at the time with the network timeline in the

0:11:26women's better time to taking during this page it's just insane and you could

0:11:32argue and I've heard many counter arguments for why i shouldn't worry

0:11:35about the speed of my website loading most of it down to either that I should

0:11:39like a secluded and then either pop it in or save it for the next load and put

0:11:44it on the next load both of those I think so because they are good options

0:11:50just for you know user experience was like why why would I want to do either

0:11:54of this you know the other answer was why do you care it's just a blog it

0:11:58doesn't matter how quickly it looks and that's BS because not only does it

0:12:02matter quite a bit how quickly pages load to whether people complete the

0:12:06loads but we're talking about loading a 300 kilobyte resource that requires two

0:12:11requests to be made before the patient even begin to look this is like in the

0:12:16head on mobile and when you have bad connections and everything that does

0:12:20matter that really does add up to a significant delay we're loading a page

0:12:24when you better big image because I can load after the pictures when you're on a

0:12:29mobile connection that really matters and it turns out that my traffic like

0:12:32everyone's traffic is mostly mobile these days and you have to think about

0:12:35that when you're a blogger or any kind of content site especially a tech

0:12:39content site read by tech people you're gonna see a large portion of traffic on

0:12:44mobile many of those people will be on cellular at the time they're loading it

0:12:48yes it would be nice if I didn't have you know

0:12:53refunds on my site but also be nice if my page loads very quickly so I think I

0:12:58have to balance those things I think maybe doing typed it might be a little

0:13:03bit better because it's just a faster web host may be doing self hosting would

0:13:08be a little bit faster because then you know it could become the connections

0:13:11little bit better than going off to a different host so we'll see I'm gonna

0:13:15believe what led you to do all this because no disrespect intended it seemed

0:13:20to me that you've kind of another abandoned but avoided writing posts for

0:13:27a while now I mean you'll you'll read your post to this show to under the

0:13:31radar but I haven't seen a whole lot of real writing from you in a while outside

0:13:37of you know when you had headphones or podcast Mike so what have you so what

0:13:39what inspired you to just start paying attention again I was inspired by being

0:13:45forced by Dropbox right right right basically I use a Dropbox BlogEngine

0:13:50never hurt nobody else could you please don't use it it it's it's terrible but I

0:13:55like it's good for me and the they they ended support for the version that was

0:14:01probably ancient the the Linux class

0:14:03that I was using for Dropbox on my ancient server running its ancient

0:14:07distribution of CentOS I think 5.5 or something so it was running an old stack

0:14:12an old version of their thing and I couldn't update it without upgrading

0:14:16some pretty big things like lives see and hear what he was basically saying on

0:14:21the internet never agree Lipsy on a Linux system if you can help it it's

0:14:26kind of a problem so I migrated to my whole blog to a new server also I I love

0:14:33Linux

0:14:33every Linux is basically like yeah rock-solid runs forever it's great but

0:14:38you want to upgrade it forget it please don't do this you really shouldn't do

0:14:42this you should never have great a Linux server but you know like never ever the

0:14:45distribution that they all say that like don't do that the solution to upgrading

0:14:49a Linux server is to abandon it and make a new one so that is what I did it so I

0:14:55was already like in their mucking around with the guts of it and setting up

0:14:59everything new and clean so I figured while I'm here let me also take this

0:15:04opportunity to modernize its so so I switched over to https and everything is

0:15:10now a CBS I dropped the WWW prefix you know all this fun stuff to modernize the

0:15:15side so part of that was let me I'm thinking about dropping a while it was

0:15:20actually about to get bills annually and it was about to bill me again hundred

0:15:24and sixty bucks only know maybe this is a good time to reconsider whether I want

0:15:28to keep using those funds let me try without it all that being said you are

0:15:31right I have barely written anything on the site of any consequence in a long

0:15:36time in months really and you know part of that was the last time I wrote stuff

0:15:40about at pricing it went very very badly and support of that was just need to

0:15:45rethink what audience I want to be writing to who's reading this do they

0:15:50really care do i do I want to be taking the risk of some of the things that I

0:15:55want to say to risk getting all the feedback from it and and being a man

0:16:00named right over the internet and horrible ways

0:16:03and starting about the drama and most of time just not worth it to me honestly

0:16:07anymore it's just not worth it I do want to keep writing but I'm I'm kind of

0:16:11going through a process where I want to try to figure out what I want to keep

0:16:16writing on the site because having the kind of potentially controversial tech

0:16:21topic discussions I think are better here where it's more human and people

0:16:24know me better and and you guys are here to rebut and to provide your own answers

0:16:30to things that I'm just not going off the deep end going crazy and getting all

0:16:34the trash I said something horrible without any kind of a bottle and the

0:16:38developer help things I I would rather do that on under the radar

0:16:44the other podcast they do with an affidavit Smith anything doesn't fit

0:16:48there anything that is kind of helpful to developer economics i think im just

0:16:54not gonna reveal any more because it has proven not to be worth it and then I

0:16:57have a lot to talk about I can blog about headphones and coffee and

0:17:00microphone justify that I can I can talk about lots of other things without being

0:17:05at that controversial or at least controversial in those ways that I've

0:17:08been kinda burned by so I feel a figure out over time I i I have noticed that

0:17:13not writing anything of substance in awhile is not making me feel good and is

0:17:20it actually making me a worse podcaster because as you can tell by this long

0:17:25rambling thing I kinda not only do I have liked more to say that like builds

0:17:30up in me all week and I like spewed I don't want a podcast and that's not good

0:17:33but also made my argument on the podcast are getting less coherent and less

0:17:38organized I i think that is because parsing 11 sick for like three weeks and

0:17:42partially because I think not writing is actually making three arguments in my

0:17:48head

0:17:49more weakly structured or more weakly organized it that makes sense that's

0:17:53right and don't publish it that's one way to do it or like a private email

0:17:58list or something like that that might be a good idea I'm not sure if it would

0:18:03be as good if you if you only surround yourself with people that agree with you

0:18:09more that want to to read it or if you're a poor writing for something that

0:18:13is such a small audience possibly have just you then I think you you lose the

0:18:18ability for people to improve you in in constructive ways and I think that would

0:18:24be unfortunate and when it would not give the writing as much value to me as

0:18:30as it would for you know those in public

0:18:34gonna give you a constructive improvement but I just realized my just

0:18:36because I'm just check reload I didn't see the name of the CSS if you really

0:18:40think it's now just chrome nevermind

0:18:43gonna complain that the new fund your chosen apparently didn't have a good

0:18:47emoji

0:18:48for the cloud icon the EU's next the streaming heading in the overcast to

0:18:52post but it's it's a black lab looks like a little tired but it's just

0:18:59nevermind carry on I don't understand why everyone loves cum so damn much

0:19:04close to sealing successfully so they've got that going for ya well see I turned

0:19:10off her name but she may have found somebody had found a way to do a

0:19:16defaults write for Tweetbot which I know is not use John but to do it defaults

0:19:20write to just direct to the actual URL instead of a Chico linked quarter were

0:19:26calling them and then that that made everything a million percent better and

0:19:31all of the issues that so many people seem to have a safari I genuinely like

0:19:35never run into them but you haven't got the one the new one in capitan where the

0:19:40the entirety of the window chrome becomes inert like you can't put the

0:19:44insertion point the address bar you can't click the window with just you

0:19:47can't look in the toolbar buttons you can't use the scroll bar got that one

0:19:51twice a week now no but remember that I have a scene amount of taps open I don't

0:19:55have 3,000 windows and 4,500 taps to browser windows open then

0:20:01and one of them is dead again I'm sure that these people who say that so far is

0:20:05a piece of crap I'm sure they're saying that for a reason but darned if I know

0:20:09why because my experience does not match with that I just I don't think that

0:20:13chrome is bad outside of the piss-poor

0:20:17just awful emoji support I don't think from is bad I don't I don't feel like it

0:20:22brings anything to the table that I care about and again I'm sure that you know

0:20:26they're all sorts of chrome like die hard chrome plans that are firing up

0:20:30email clients right now they're not the reason gmail is exactly probably using

0:20:35Gmail to rate me some sort of nasty gram but the things that chrome did better

0:20:38than than Safari and maybe that's true I'm not saying that they're wrong but in

0:20:41my personal experience I have never thought to myself you know what I really

0:20:45wish I could use Chrome for this because it does whatever better though I still

0:20:49run both are you so far as my primary I used to use from Nice to like use one at

0:20:54work one home so I got it would be up to them and now you are now for a while the

0:20:59primary chrome is my is my flash isolation area but anyway but chrome is

0:21:07it has always been very consistent for me with performance with reliability

0:21:12everything safari is all over the map with every new version so you know

0:21:16sometimes so far is great for a while sometimes Safari gets slower buggy or

0:21:20inconsistent or crashes or something for a few releases and in my experience

0:21:24chrome is just way more consistent also I think from has the better web dev

0:21:29tools most of the time so we'll see anyway we will hear from all the current

0:21:33people and what they think because I believe has more market-driven safari in

0:21:39pretty much every bite by anyone's metric and pretty sure it's it's

0:21:43substantially had a safari now so that the world has voted just like they used

0:21:48to vote for Compaq Dell computers that those are the best side so not speaking

0:21:55of things that are awesome why don't you make us happier after mentioning compaq

0:21:58in Delhi and tell us about something that is awesome

0:22:02there's a company out there that I have just talked about for the first part the

0:22:06part that's quite a bit and it's called line owed or Linode I don't even know so

0:22:10it's Linux cleanness Leinart I don't know but I say line

0:22:14node it's a webhost it's been around for a long time now and I have been honored

0:22:19customer myself for quite a long time I think he like six or eight years at

0:22:25least I've been there awhile I have done a lot of web hosts in in my time I've

0:22:29used a lot of them big and small from from you know as tough as big as hosting

0:22:34the first four years of tumblr at a at a huge host all the way down to hosting

0:22:39little private sites for myself and my friends everything over the years I've

0:22:43light line owed so much and they've gotten so good that I now hosts

0:22:48everything that line and I think I have one dedicated server left somewhere else

0:22:52for some artillery attacks only because I haven't gotten around to it yet it is

0:22:56such a great host and I you know they can't pay me to say this I'm saying this

0:23:00honestly as me I was hoping to get them as a sponsor because I've used them

0:23:04forever and I really do genuinely liked them and recommend them in my opinion it

0:23:10is the best value in web hosting today

0:23:13major upgrade but two years ago now are year ago when they put everything testes

0:23:18so it's all fastball St modern CPUs more recently they switched their hypervisor

0:23:23software from Zen to KVM the latest units benchmarks show that it is 300%

0:23:27performance increase between 22 KVM from then so I've done it all mine has been

0:23:33fine rock-solid everything's great you want to host things that why not believe

0:23:37me like it if you want real web hosting you want access to your own service you

0:23:42can configure however you want and you can you can install your own software on

0:23:46your own stuff you want to do that line it really is an incredible value for

0:23:51what you get it is very affordable to the hardware and saw and speed and

0:23:56bandwidth is solid check it out I use it I recommended line 0 dot com slash ATP

0:24:03lead to a $10 credit using promo code accidental podcast 10 so delighted I

0:24:08concise ATP get a $10 credit by using promo code accidental podcast 10 thank

0:24:13you very much to line up for sponsoring our show we have some news in the Apple

0:24:19executive lineup John D on account of give us a synopsis as to what's going on

0:24:23there was so long ago I can barely remember

0:24:25that was like right after recording this week's podcast like 11 news they're

0:24:30gonna dump at the end of the year the news was a fairly tame a reorg where

0:24:37sheler got control of the App Store stuff the absence of that used to be

0:24:41under attack you and if you still has like the whole media thing and music and

0:24:47all that stuff I think and they named what's-his-name Jeff Williams COO but he

0:24:53was already doing that and not a lot of exciting things they're but the thing

0:24:56that developers got excited about is the moving of any apps to responsibilities

0:25:00from one person to another and I guess people are getting hopeful just because

0:25:04hey it's a change and things are bad now the change has the potential to be good

0:25:09but those shelter has been in charge of a preview of Marco can correct me if I'm

0:25:13wrong for a while now right it's not just that's not new I believe since the

0:25:17start he's just getting the rest of the App Store and so a preview is one of the

0:25:21things that developers complain about a lot and Phil show her always had that so

0:25:25he's not exactly you're sort of savior of the App Store if you're if you have

0:25:30been disgruntled about a preview stuff that's the shelter and now he's got the

0:25:33rest of the hope is I guess that those shows organization like will improve the

0:25:39tech parts of it better like make iTunes Connect nice area and let developers use

0:25:44test flight and fix the Mac App Store sandboxing people so people can actually

0:25:49test their absence and box like that's the hope that any cues seem to not be

0:25:54able to roll out be the features like the software and server-based features

0:25:59for developers as quickly as developers wanted and it somehow Phil show would do

0:26:03better I have no idea if that is the case but I have to admit I'm also

0:26:08slightly optimistic just because things have been kind of not grade limping

0:26:14along for a long time and I like to see some kind of shake up even if it's like

0:26:17the world's most minor shake-up so yeah I mean just to fill out what you said

0:26:22basically the the developer ecosystem of Apple has always been under these three

0:26:27different divisions in the company there the engineering division undercut the

0:26:31turkey

0:26:32they may call the API's new OS isn't everything and then there's the

0:26:36developer relations division which is under Phil Schiller division under

0:26:41marketing and that that does the BBC that the you know the developer program

0:26:47and then and also a preview and the app review policies and then there's the

0:26:52store division and the editorial part of it that has been under attack you in the

0:26:56Services Division and that aside like what happened to be featured and how the

0:27:01store works and and running the store back and everything I would imagine also

0:27:05involved the store apps themselves so that it to hell is under three different

0:27:11divisions you could you could always tell the pastor there has been some kind

0:27:16of like miscommunication or fortune in the past so for example you would have

0:27:20an app that was featured by the App Store editorial team under a DQ because

0:27:25it was doing some new cool thing and then the app review team would call up

0:27:30and say sorry we're not gonna allows you to take this app down while it's being

0:27:34featured by the department in in the store and so you have these kind of

0:27:39weird miscommunications or disagreement between the divisions that have caused

0:27:42some friction or sumn sumn you know clumsiness and passed the engineering

0:27:47site is still under factory still totally separate obviously that makes

0:27:50that makes sense but the developer relations and the App Store is now

0:27:55together under Phil and interestingly as as a friend Ben Thompson pointed out on

0:27:59trajectory think this was one of the Private Members Only things but if not

0:28:03linked to it a lot of people are paying attention to the fact that actually that

0:28:06Phil Schiller has actually lost a big chunk of his responsibilities in this is

0:28:10well what corporate people called marcom marketing communications which I think

0:28:15that's that's like advertising stuff right beats me I know nothing about that

0:28:19stuff anyway that used to be under Phil and now they announced the new hire

0:28:24whose name I forgot I'm sorry the new hire is now taking over marketing

0:28:28communications from Phil and reporting directly to Tim Cook so this this stuff

0:28:34has been removed from Phils played peers and then phil has gained the app stores

0:28:39and at logically I don't know how this works

0:28:42you know internally that there's obviously a lot of

0:28:45implementation details here that we don't know like the big 12 me is how do

0:28:50you separate the app stores from the back end that they run on which is all

0:28:56presumably still under eight accused of it there's some weirdness there I would

0:29:01imagine but high level it it certainly appears that phil has lost his

0:29:06responsibilities of running the like advertising part of it and Dean the

0:29:11responsibility of running the app stores whatever that includes because he

0:29:15already ran developer relations and a preview that makes some sense so John

0:29:20I'm with you in that I am optimistic about this I don't think we're going to

0:29:24see meaningful change the App Store Policies any kind of rule that you can't

0:29:29do now and you kind of controversy over a preview I wouldn't even expect

0:29:34improvements to a preview on the Mac App Store having this occasionally very long

0:29:38review times I hope they fix that that's that's just messed up that's been it's

0:29:44embarrassing and that's obviously not the way it's supposed to work to have

0:29:47your absentee review for a month but you know when it is working like an iOS when

0:29:51you typically get in 07 write a review time I don't think we're gonna see any

0:29:56major changes to that system the system of a preview as we know it today that is

0:30:02here to stay for a long time because the person who is at the very top of the

0:30:06organization just took control the entire App Store

0:30:09obviously they're not looking to change that but the things that I think that

0:30:13I'm optimistic about here are the first of all a great read on Phil but the more

0:30:21that I that I know of him or the more that I hear him talk about hear stories

0:30:27about him the more I think I think I I like him like I think he has

0:30:33sensibilities that one up with mine more so than most of the other high up Apple

0:30:39executives and and more so that are in the interest of the old apple and I come

0:30:45to some good and some bad that's why a preview of things going anywhere because

0:30:48that you know it's like the old school Apple but overall this is a good thing

0:30:52if for nothing else because as you said John it is a sign of of a of a pretty

0:30:57big cheese and if you look at like things that stagnant or have problems in

0:31:03Apple many of them I would say possibly even most of them fall under the service

0:31:09division that is clearly a place where they have had a lot of problems in the

0:31:13past and I i we keep hearing they're doing that they're getting better

0:31:16some of things are doing are better like the new cloud kids stuff the new photo

0:31:19sync some of that stuff is really good and so I think they are getting better

0:31:23and we're hearing stories about them like running Linux servers now and and

0:31:27doing this apache besos thing and and now we're probably works with Linux is

0:31:31going and we're seeing lots of lots of like rumblings that the department is

0:31:36getting better and some evidence that is coming out to the consumers but even if

0:31:40they start doing really well they also seem dramatically overloaded and and

0:31:45they seem like they have a lot of trouble making progress on multiple

0:31:50fronts the App Store has basically done nothing like it in the App Store has

0:31:55gone almost nowhere has improved very little has changed very little since its

0:32:01inception in 2008

0:32:02you know it if you look at the absurd today for the ouster in 2008 it really

0:32:06is not that different

0:32:08yes some things are better but not what not what you'd expect for was a seven

0:32:13years seven and a half years if not what you'd expect for them in time so to move

0:32:18a big chunk of of this division out of it under new leadership in a different

0:32:24vision of the company to have that bTW absurd the thing that that control so

0:32:27much of my living many people living in the modern computing landscape so much

0:32:33as a dependent on the App Store and the way its run its policies to move that to

0:32:38her executive is a big change I think you know it seems like it would be a big

0:32:42change I don't think there's like some paper thing so I I hope that this is a

0:32:47sign that they are finally going to change the after they're finally going

0:32:51to improve it to start making meaningful changes and again I don't think it's

0:32:56gonna be in regards to a preview I think we're stuck with that for a long time

0:32:59but it could be in regards to many things that could use improvement things

0:33:02like you know if you want upgrade pricing or trials that's the kind of

0:33:05place you know this is the kind of change that would happen if you want

0:33:08improvements to the max

0:33:09App Store or better how I mean if you look at the health of the App Store's

0:33:13pretty much all the mix up the iPhone 18 help like they're not in great shape the

0:33:18iPhone one is doing ok so beautiful to massive volume but it could still use

0:33:23some improvement all of that now is kind of we have we have a renewed hope the

0:33:29App Store might finally get better because they use did this seemingly

0:33:34substantial sounding move I have high hopes for that especially to be under

0:33:39Phil he cares a lot about the Mac about the product quality and they wouldn't

0:33:44have moved this for no reason there is nothing pressuring them to move it there

0:33:48was no like there is no reason they had to do this so they clearly want to do

0:33:53this and it has to have been this this move has to happen for a good reason

0:33:57there is some kind of pressure because when I it's hard so it's hard to tell

0:34:01why things are happening inside applicants obviously the press release

0:34:04isn't gonna tell you and I can do is look at the experience I've had in a

0:34:07company that I work for when they have shuttle people around and the only real

0:34:11underlying thing other than stuff you don't know about the information you

0:34:15don't have like roanoke like maybe someone you know is going to retire soon

0:34:19or you know maybe someone has expressed an interest in doing something different

0:34:23right but usually if some top executive like the CEO whatever is not getting

0:34:31something they want out of some subdivision of the company they've let

0:34:36that slide for a while but eventually it's like I've been I wanted acts for

0:34:40two years now and this person hasn't delivered it it's time to give another

0:34:45person who can sometimes there's the you know give the really hard job to this

0:34:49one executive who's great for you know doing tackling tough problems and that

0:34:53person bounces around like the problem solver the fixer the do you know like

0:34:58the call so horrendous acts Casey out some of your reference you don't get it

0:35:02is definitely affects their anyway it could be that but I get away it's like

0:35:08someone is not getting what they want out of insert and it could be a summer

0:35:12not getting what they want added marcom and that's why a new guys to come in to

0:35:16take it is someone not getting what they want the app so we don't know because it

0:35:20could be say it's a the marking something stag

0:35:22you know Apple's marketing messages in evolving and for a while we wanted to

0:35:27change until doesn't seem capable to get out of the rut so what we're gonna do is

0:35:30we're going to bring in someone new

0:35:31they're gonna take over the marketing communication but since no such an

0:35:35important person you can't take away that from him without giving them

0:35:38something else and I need a lot of salsa given over to him alright that's one

0:35:41plausible scenario another one is the one the world languages like ed four

0:35:45years we wanted access of you know this outdoor stuff has been happening so

0:35:50we're gonna take that away from you and give it to somebody who is more we think

0:35:55is going to do a better job I don't know the person is gonna do a better job of

0:35:59that be like there's just so much we don't know but the bottom line is these

0:36:02things don't happen without a substantial reason because top

0:36:06executives hate having responsibility taken away from them it's not a demotion

0:36:09but it's seen as like you know so don't show her is not really you know he got a

0:36:14bunch of response was taken away but he took the mantle something else I feel

0:36:17like this is you know in the political org chart of Apple's little bit of a

0:36:22downer and EQ and a little bit of an upper sideways heroin phyllis was the

0:36:27way it feels to me from the outside and when I think about is you know there is

0:36:32corrected a little bit little bit down aromatic you what what is it that top

0:36:37executives might have wanted that they weren't getting out of it and that's

0:36:41makes me think of the success Heights problem things we're in the beginning

0:36:45but he had the iTunes Store and the App Store and everything was going

0:36:49gangbusters hey the App Store is super popular everybody loves apps they're

0:36:52installing stuff in like every year every quarter he you know at every

0:36:57meeting and he could be a look at these crazy numbers look how many apps we have

0:37:00look how many people had ellen's up look how many developers are signed up like

0:37:03every metric that he could possibly every charge to put up every number

0:37:07Heathrow on someone's face was like I'm in charge of the App Store in the App

0:37:10Store is awesome but as you point out Marco at a certain point like those

0:37:15numbers that the day level off it's like yeah yeah we heard lots about someone

0:37:18ever bought this hearing about you know developers don't like this or it's hard

0:37:23to search in the store or just been but this company to redo the store but it

0:37:26kinda looks the same and people don't think it's that much better and just

0:37:29just from regulated like you don't have to be plugged into this community just

0:37:33Tim Cook to go to the App Store his own phone to try to find something and

0:37:36notice that their problems and bring that up two years ago they did you in a

0:37:40bit like oh you know we'll take care of that no work on this organized into

0:37:43seven points like it doesn't you know again things that things that someone

0:37:47who's not plugged into the Daubert you can adjust Tim Cook on his own phone

0:37:50keep using the app store your bike you know doesn't seem like regardless of

0:37:56whether I think this is good or not your number the greater reliability is great

0:37:59you make a lot of money or whatever it just doesn't seem like it has gotten

0:38:02that much better over the past several years so maybe it's time for a change

0:38:06now this could all be delusions based on our perspective as outsiders and people

0:38:11who know a lot of developers it could be something entirely unrelated but to me

0:38:15that's a plausible scenario that that that that he was Coast thing but that

0:38:18like when when you're on the fun part of the hockey stick it can hide a lot of

0:38:23stuff in a certain point lol off or that stuff becomes old hat and you need like

0:38:28what have you done for me lately you know what what have you done to the App

0:38:31Store lately cuz the complaints are there and the feedback is there and you

0:38:36know people leaving the Mac App Store and longer view times I don't have the

0:38:39time involved that into you know like features and iTunes Connect and just it

0:38:43just seems like at this point no matter how distant be removed from the

0:38:47developer community can do it market just said and say look at what the

0:38:49upstart was like five years ago and look at what it's like now and think is that

0:38:52five years with the progress in the App Store and you just have to say no and so

0:38:56that's why that feels like the strongest reason why there might be a shake-up

0:39:00related to the App Store regardless of what you think it was just that it's

0:39:04just not progressing in advancing the way you would hope it would also like

0:39:09you know i i think as as I mentioned last episode I think you can look at

0:39:12their their recent product launches the watch the Apple TV and the iPad pro in

0:39:18all three of those cases you can very clearly point to the at ecosystem and

0:39:24the app stores themselves as holding these products back significantly the

0:39:29the TV app store is frankly embarrassing

0:39:32there's so little in it it is so hard to use it is so hard to find anything

0:39:37there's no like there's no like Public Links for TV apps you can't if you hear

0:39:43about like like that land to came out this past week or something I want to

0:39:48get it on my TV or these find out if it was available on Apple TV I could not

0:39:52find information out anywhere except going over walking over the TV and

0:39:57typing poorly planned to into that horrible text entry field and finding

0:40:03nothing and I wasn't sure like is just bad right now or is it really not here

0:40:08and it turns out of the TV I hadn't been out for the TV I would have no computer

0:40:14or my phone or any other device to have clicked by this inhabitable my TV there

0:40:20there are simple things like this where the stores were not helping

0:40:24it's it's really hinder things not to mention the way bigger challenge of like

0:40:29developer economics and and making it worth developing for these platforms

0:40:33which is a whole separate discussion but is related to this who's in charge of

0:40:38that site who agree I just to give you an example upgrade pricing like

0:40:41developers and wanted to go to prison for a long time

0:40:43who of all the people

0:40:46top execs me know and Apple are the people saying no to upgrade pricing and

0:40:50are they still in charge of that decision

0:40:52well I think it was kind of a combo mean that kind of thing before would have

0:40:56been like 80 if you look at the app review rules there are many interviewed

0:41:01rules related to pricing and what you what you're allowed to do with your

0:41:04pricing and what you're not what has to be free what has to do not break or not

0:41:08have limits on her ever so a lot of that isn't a preview but that any anything

0:41:13related to things like a great president would have had to be implemented by any

0:41:17Q's division so that kind of thing

0:41:21spanned both divisions and I think that's one of the reasons why you seen

0:41:24so little change it

0:41:26of that type because it wouldn't it would have involved these two divisions

0:41:30working together which was probably problematic or at least of these

0:41:35burdensome be implemented bundles which is like seems like so much more

0:41:39complicated the upgrade price I mean they did then that purchase and they did

0:41:42bundles to features that are fair

0:41:44complicated so it seems like when whoever is the head of the snake want to

0:41:49change to the economics we want to make bundles possible we want them to make

0:41:53in-app purchase possible that's going to involve your team ready cuz you gotta

0:41:56handle the bundle and the pricing whenever an in-app purchase gonna be

0:41:59like a backend that we're going to talk to whatever but it just seemed to me

0:42:02that those efforts weren't coming from any cute and I'm just wondering who you

0:42:07know I upgrade pricing and it happened in terms of the economic issues somebody

0:42:11is setting the policy if you like or dislike Apple still if somebody high

0:42:16enough up said you know what we're going to do operate price it would happen like

0:42:20regardless of who's in charge of implementing it made you a peek ready

0:42:22and maybe like the interface for an iTunes Connect would be bad baby buggy

0:42:26to begin with it may be difficult for developers to test all the things you

0:42:29can blame on any cure whatever but like I just always wonder where the decision

0:42:33is made like to have a meeting where they should be revisited upgrade price

0:42:36does it never come up like today decide once back when Steve Jobs is still alive

0:42:40that upgrade pricing is good for developers of bed for users in this

0:42:43endeavor revisit that decision despite you know but how the iPad pro may change

0:42:48that equation or whatever you have to also look at how important is this thing

0:42:54is very important to us how important is this relative to the division it's in

0:42:59the company it's in you know and and so relative to all Apple as a whole I don't

0:43:05know how important they consider things like the App Store and developer

0:43:07happiness with the App Store everything else I don't know senator sherry faxes

0:43:11like why aren't more people buying iPad pros why are people leaving the Mac App

0:43:15Store why are all these awesome apps that we know it's possible to build

0:43:18appearing on the iPad prob wise Adobe not making a full version of Photoshop

0:43:22for the upper leg all sorts of questions about why aren't people taking advantage

0:43:26or + 21 is that we haven't sold any hardware but it's kind of a chicken egg

0:43:31situation other answers what is it about specialist advice should I pro like what

0:43:36is it about our platforms that you know we all know the answers that lends

0:43:39itself to applications and a bunch of people right and support what they can

0:43:43still make money and then abandoned like there is no sort of ten-year twenty-year

0:43:47application because you can't get any more revenue from them unless it's like

0:43:50it and in-app purchase type of thing where you're constantly you know people

0:43:53for

0:43:54currency or whatever you know like other than those model like why why is there

0:43:58no model for sort of professional applications that people buy on a

0:44:01regular basis I guess they do subscriptions but then you know we all

0:44:05know what the the the App Store policies are there that didn't make it difficult

0:44:08to have a sustainable high-end software package that continually its upgraded on

0:44:15Apple's iOS platform that is because all the tools people are used to either

0:44:18don't exist or have a 30 percent taxes just mostly untenable like Adobe loves

0:44:22their subscription revenue aw would love subscription revenue a lot less

0:44:25available to 30% and I mean there have been so mean I there have been so many

0:44:31unimplemented or lost or cancelled ideas and services and products because i

0:44:38three percent I mean that is not a small number that that is a number that that

0:44:42makes or breaks people's business models and a lot of cases going back to ABQ for

0:44:46his division like if you look at what else that division had to do you know

0:44:51while the actor was under them that's all of iCloud that's all of Siri that is

0:44:56all of these stores at other stores in music stores that Apple music streaming

0:45:00television planet still hasn't happened right and it's and it's it's all the

0:45:03content deals its negotiating and dealing with his content companies also

0:45:07and Apple has not done well in that area recently and and I don't know if this is

0:45:12just you know you doing his job badly I probably not as far more complicated

0:45:16than that now it's not like people have apples number now they have the first

0:45:19home is easy like it like it and people learn that lesson from iTunes and was

0:45:22like no intention of giving our business Amazon to check your power Apple so now

0:45:26it's it's much harder to go because you know Apple doesn't want to come out with

0:45:31a plan as far as I know nobody has a plan that is a convincing replacement

0:45:36for quarter for real television at this point Apple wants to be the first so

0:45:40they're gonna have to be the ones to explain to the big networks and

0:45:43everybody just trust us this this fungus empower you and you won't lose your

0:45:49shirt on this deal but you have to bring the price down because no one's going to

0:45:52buy it if it costs as much as cable but isn't as good as cable which it won't

0:45:54because they're stupid Apple TV box isn't that good

0:45:57and it's like this thing we're like the same last week about how Apple doesn't

0:46:02really seem to know how to be in a negotiating position of not just

0:46:08absolute power I think that you know I was less because talking about

0:46:11developers but this week you know i think is very equally to the content

0:46:16problems

0:46:17content deals only one willing to say here that in this negotiation between

0:46:22Apple and television networks I'm willing to put money that the television

0:46:26people are being more reasonable than Apple like they've been every time like

0:46:31les Moonves makes it a public statement I feel like I don't envy an enviable

0:46:35trying to negotiate with these guys because I think that they don't get it

0:46:40Apple is trying to explain to them so I really like it's hard to fault Apple

0:46:46these things maybe they are being a little bit stubborn but but she's there

0:46:49they're trying to pull in industries head out of the sand and it's it's slow

0:46:52going and that's fair but that industry i think is still doing really well

0:46:57without Apple and the dynamic is different one of the reasons Apple was

0:47:01able to have so much power in music and get some great deals for music is

0:47:05because the music industry was was kind of naive and also pretty desperate and

0:47:10in this case today that's not the case anymore especially with with TV industry

0:47:14like the TV industry still doing very well and still making tons of money

0:47:18a palatable should have Netflix but wasn't like a Netflix got their first

0:47:21right so and then now everyone it's it's it's a bigger mess like your music music

0:47:28was more desperate music with smaller and more tractable and nobody knew what

0:47:32was going to happen and apple just steamrolled everybody and everyone saw

0:47:35what happened to everybody who who basically lost power nap on that was

0:47:40like no we're not doing that against every other industry from e-books

0:47:42television to movies everything was like comes calling

0:47:47look at the music industry as a cautionary tale and negotiate

0:47:50differently and find another way

0:47:52we're going to make your own streaming apps and we're gonna make deals with

0:47:55Netflix and you know who knows what we're gonna do but it's more complicated

0:47:59world like it and I do wonder like I don't know anything about it and I see

0:48:05the guys they talk a big fan of button his shirt yeah but I was wondering like

0:48:11what his core skills that is like he's not an engineer at a tax programmer

0:48:15anything we've always heard that he that he is like the negotiator said that he

0:48:20he is really good at these content deals apparently or I also have also heard

0:48:24that he has a reputation of like being the fixer getting things done but I

0:48:29honestly I don't see it not an iTunes Connect know well as is the least

0:48:36developed problems I mean I think all things associated with like test flight

0:48:40integration and you know the process visibility into the app review process

0:48:44and the ability to contact the Human about your thing and yeah yeah but like

0:48:49yeah I mean the problems of the App Store go way beyond like the iTunes

0:48:53Connect a web interface or so far beyond that and then that's good enough for

0:48:59what it does you know it's not great but it's fine it's like it's like the admin

0:49:03panel that ever that we all make for our websites like no one's admin panel is

0:49:07nice

0:49:08iTunes Connect is not nice but I don't need Phil Schiller to fix iTunes Connect

0:49:12you know we we need to fix a lot bigger problem than that

0:49:16NEQ got a bachelor's in computer science and economics from deep yeah I don't

0:49:22like I don't know I can get a read it was obviously at this level of doing

0:49:27anything you're telling people who are telling people are telling people to do

0:49:30things with just like its management just I'm trying to think like things

0:49:36that you do things that were put in a DQ this substantial improvements or they've

0:49:41gotten better or that you know like he's got a lot of sort of stars on as you

0:49:46know whatever you call them right

0:49:48like iTunes and the stores and the App Store especially in the initial part of

0:49:53lots of big important good numbers he put up there have been a lot of big

0:49:56bonuses and all of those years and you know everything looked good

0:50:00but I just lately not that it doesn't look good anymore still looks good but

0:50:05said it's like what have you done for me lately what what improvements you made

0:50:09to the system uses a system people gonna put out they can put them on stories we

0:50:12have multiple stores we have other things like but it just doesn't seem

0:50:15like it's progressing like we've all been hearing the exact same complaints

0:50:19from the developer side of it for so many years and so I said that aside

0:50:22because a lot of people who cares but developers I don't care by developers

0:50:26Apple should I care about users you know uses you come back above developers I

0:50:29think that's right users do come about developer censured because there are

0:50:32many many more of them but it's it's related because like I was using you

0:50:37won't be like I don't care what developers think about pressure on the

0:50:40App Store and at the same time you had perot why isn't there more software

0:50:43update it for it

0:50:44wisest thing that I downloaded the throw afternoons ever gonna support that

0:50:48doesn't work but but like I'm saying set that aside for a second just totally

0:50:53believe in an important to set it aside I really do feel that from the user's

0:50:58perspective the App Store as experienced by the user just talked about a mark on

0:51:02the App Store as experienced by users of Apple TV or you know just as a user

0:51:07going to the App Store finding stuff feeling feeling good and comment about

0:51:12the things that you find there I i think that is has not progressed and the sort

0:51:17of cess pit stop it

0:51:18have gotten deeper and more dangerous the suspects of free-to-play you know

0:51:22all those mechanics and taking money from people and the cesspit of at this

0:51:26point sort of single use unsupported applications that are clogging up your

0:51:32search results and make it much harder to find the one or two good at some

0:51:37things like they always brag about how many apps they have once that number got

0:51:41like six or seven digits it stops being a plus or minus I don't want ten million

0:51:47applications I don't want one million applications even 200,000 applications

0:51:50like seriously you know those all can't be winners

0:51:55there's a lot of so should reject more things from the store whatever but like

0:52:00at a certain point the number of applications you have becomes a problem

0:52:04to solve nothing to brag about their problems are solved is you know Amazon

0:52:09has probably millions of products that I find it easier to find decent things on

0:52:14Amazon you know because they review system is better than Apple's because

0:52:17they're people like this like that as a little bit better you know like all the

0:52:20parts that have to do with dealing with lots of products and presenting it to

0:52:24users that part of the experience of being a user of Apple products has you

0:52:29know again because we think it just hasn't gotten a much better in years and

0:52:32years and years and so that that is an area I feel like no matter what you

0:52:36think about you have to say we are not progressing fast enough I turn off

0:52:40competitors are nipping at their heels or whatever but if you can make that

0:52:43experience better as the show but the answer to begin with you can make that

0:52:45experience better that can do really big things for your bottom line and your

0:52:49customers that interview developer satisfaction

0:52:52letting developers be able to respond to reviews or contact people anonymously r

0:52:56like it just does it that's low hanging fruit is not even that big a deal and

0:53:01yeah well that's you know we can't do that just came out it's been years like

0:53:05one give you one of those a year for five years and it would make a much

0:53:09bigger and I know they did things that is mentioned the bundles and in-app

0:53:12purchases arguably are an important thing in subscriptions and opening the

0:53:15stuff that used to be used and only up like they have done some things but it

0:53:20just it just feels like stagnation and i dont i dont feel good doing it after

0:53:25these days I know exactly where I'm going and if I can't get a direct link

0:53:29like on the TV I don't know what I would do we respond to this week by fracture

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0:54:51you very much to fracture for sponsoring our show once again so also in the last

0:54:55week 60 minutes and Charlie Rose did a not really an interview but a feature on

0:55:02Apple and they were afforded a little bit more access than most TV crews are

0:55:08afforded have you guys seen this no of course not I did but about football

0:55:15pushed it off the end of my TV episode was arrested on on CBS is there whatever

0:55:19never good as their terrible website to maybe watch market but I didn't see what

0:55:23I can do that I can go to their tireless if you stupid football pushes the show

0:55:28out and your TV doesn't correctly just because stupid football ran long not

0:55:32enough time for TiVo to get updated guide information then you can watch as

0:55:36much as you can you TiVo and then I just always assume I can go to the website of

0:55:40the television show on my stress it and then behold I could as long as I was

0:55:44willing to watch like seventeen of the same commercial before I could move the

0:55:48little play head up to the point where I left off so anything about football

0:55:52can take the speed I'm not gonna take this page is not based on their TV

0:55:56schedule isn't their TV schedule I feel like a football runs long it should

0:55:59switch to the football football overflow channel anyway I'm still so the feature

0:56:08I it is worth watching although I don't think any revelations came from it

0:56:14accepting apparently read it seemed to think that a MacBook as shown in the

0:56:18background 44 seconds with some new Mac which it was supposedly it wasn't it was

0:56:24like this is the best part of it let's assume that it was so what happens now

0:56:29like let's stipulate for the for the purpose of this conversation that there

0:56:33was a different MacBook in the background now what happens nothing

0:56:37happens it looks like it open to close it has a screen and a keyboard can you

0:56:43buy one do you know what's in it

0:56:45no point less do you know what they're doing like look I like is coming out in

0:56:51the spring / winter / summer / God knows when it's coming out soon become to the

0:56:56huge power savings the retina MacBook Pro design is gonna be about four years

0:57:01old but I'ma comes out there gonna take advantage of this kind of the power

0:57:04savings and they're going to make the stupid thing thinner and it's going to

0:57:08be fine I'm gonna complain about the keyboard in the battery life in the

0:57:10first extract that on buying one and they're going to be the same as we have

0:57:14now but thinner and cool looking at maybe in space crinkled or not or or or

0:57:19they can have amazing features that but not be visible on the screen looks like

0:57:22a laptop I just like you know like I will agree right now that that was a

0:57:30brand-new under these products in the background and now what happens that we

0:57:34just sit here and smile I gotta understand anyway john Kasay interrupted

0:57:37you yes so there wasn't that much that I thought was really remarkable about the

0:57:43about the piece but I thought we should note that we that while two-thirds of us

0:57:47have seen it the one thing that I thought was really interesting was Dan

0:57:50Riccio saying and I'm gonna put it in front of me even a tenth of a millimeter

0:57:56of thickness is sacred to us and this was with regard to the MacBook one but

0:58:01probably pretty telling about a whole set it to you about these sorts of

0:58:05things in general so that's the thing that's the thing that we've been

0:58:09lamenting for a while I don't know if you guys have any thoughts on that there

0:58:13are quote that stuck out to me was in there talking to johnnie I was getting

0:58:16into his his Jony ive mode where he is very passionate about things I think the

0:58:21question was something about like did you feel like that Apple could become

0:58:25complacent insular something like that

0:58:29his answer was basically like I like all the things they say these are answers

0:58:34that anyone who follows Apple's heard before

0:58:36just repeated contacts and it was the giant have answer from polio which

0:58:42averaged I believe that you like BS this is the same question is a million times

0:58:46like every you know any famous person has to and his answer to this one is but

0:58:51not really looking at what we like we're not satisfied with what we do like so

0:58:56we're not gonna be like oh just set of you know leaned back in just a phone it

0:59:00in or whatever and we're not comparing ourselves to what else is out there and

0:59:05other people's products we compare ourselves to is always this ideal this

0:59:09perfection that we have in our own minds over chasing chasing perfection our own

0:59:13internal

0:59:14you know intrinsic motivation the ideal that we have in our mind and that's what

0:59:18we're chasing and I believe that because it shows in their products that seemed

0:59:23to have that seem to be chasing some ideal that it has had their minds and

0:59:28don't involve certainly too many looks at what other people are doing which is

0:59:35fine but also maybe not too many looks at how people use these things in the

0:59:40real world you know like his answer makes sense but it hinges entirely on

0:59:45what is that ideal you're chasing in as articulated through many white

0:59:50background movies over

0:59:51years the idea that the journey I was always said that he's chasing has good

0:59:57and bad aspects of the Dubai is like a look obvious that has to seem like it's

1:00:01not designed it shouldn't you know it shouldn't be designed for designed sake

1:00:06but we could see in the products that he makes it he you know he favored a

1:00:11simplicity and symmetry and purity and beauty and it can be argued that those

1:00:15things and it can be argued that those things have a psychological effect on

1:00:20the user's our products that it benefits that bob line but there are practical

1:00:24considerations as well and the balance between chasing that ideal that that

1:00:30again may be beneficial the company but may not be better for the product and

1:00:35also doing things you kind of have to do whether it's more reliable stream really

1:00:41fun cables or you know or more grippy services for things or you know like

1:00:48nothing better than all the stuff I haven't seen a lot of interviews where

1:00:52that balance has been brought up a really pursued and I'm not expecting I

1:00:57can sixty Minutes interview you know basically it's going to be people you

1:01:00know if you follow up a lot is going to be people you've seen before being asked

1:01:03questions they've been asked two thousand times you've seen the BSA's

1:01:05questions about times and you know if there is going to be because you've

1:01:08heard them give the same answer thousand times and they they died at each one of

1:01:12them like labor practices parking money overseas popularity of products secrecy

1:01:19the new Apple Campus in this is nothing new there but it is interesting that

1:01:24they you know you got to come in the lab to the table draped with stuff you get

1:01:27to see are milling machine running and whatever you know you can peek at it in

1:01:31that way and it's interesting to see that people give the same answers and

1:01:34see if they change but what I always wanted to know what we all want is

1:01:38people who are on our listeners program is deeper questions like so I think

1:01:43group interview with shelter pursued this a little bit on the whole figure

1:01:47but he was talking about then maybe was also talking about battery life or maybe

1:01:50with developer license then they would you like to pursue to have follow-ups to

1:01:53dig a little bit like to bring up this feels like this is news to John yet he

1:01:57knows about the the balance between

1:01:59you know practical features I'm sure all the engineering people manufacturers

1:02:03telling them practically speaking you do this music now can we figure out a way

1:02:06to do this like that that's what I was talking about you know fractions of

1:02:10millimeters there is a tension between what can be done what is able to be

1:02:14manufactured one of the economical what is beautiful what is our economic is

1:02:19there something it's both beautiful and ergonomic and obvious and durable and

1:02:23stays beautiful for a long time like this this is that's what design is all

1:02:26about

1:02:27I would love to hear an in-depth discussion Jony ive just about those

1:02:31tradeoffs about how he figures out where that balance is not in vague terms of

1:02:34getting into specifics because i think is the most interesting thing about

1:02:37design and Jony ive had never talks about it maybe is never going to be good

1:02:42secrecy type thing he doesn't give you a cute window into his mind but if you

1:02:48retired and I can get him on the spot kathy has been the entire show just like

1:02:52trying to figure out how they did that bounced and what factors do we not

1:02:57understand that are involved in this and are there problems that we see that he

1:03:01doesn't and other problems that he knows are issues that we never see it take for

1:03:06granted and that would be a much more interesting interview then loads on 60

1:03:09minutes but then again it sixty minutes so I think my expectation for that were

1:03:15even lower than Star Wars or Star Wars that you people have been saying good

1:03:20things about it the people involved for good

1:03:22abrams you know George Lucas wasn't involved it seemed like your

1:03:26expectations should have been at least middle of the road

1:03:28well let's just say the last three Star Wars movies estaba not the best I know

1:03:32but there's the whole different set of maybe don't know but the whole route

1:03:37it's it's even bigger than the dq Phil Schiller thing all people out new people

1:03:41in

1:03:42I'm like the average consumer I wasn't believed in that world of paying

1:03:45attention all that stuff I didn't expect much from it because the last few hours

1:03:50movies I've seen have been terrible effects that they didn't they didn't

1:03:54just shuffle things around a little bit

1:03:56complete change of hands new people in charge entirely everything on the

1:04:00internet comes back to these days that's what you have to say just go see

1:04:03tomorrow how are you the one who has it seems like it's somehow market has been

1:04:07to the new I don't understand what's going on today

1:04:10bizarro world it is bizarre it's a Christmas miracle

1:04:13this is our Christmas to tell me that hops on should have brought him he would

1:04:17have enjoyed it

1:04:18god no no we need we need a babysitter 'cause we have like a baby now we're all

1:04:23a cold and boring and no but you have family close by

1:04:26make this happen but you're kidding preschool actually the theater when I

1:04:29went to an Alamo Drafthouse we delete this account like hipster the

1:04:32interchange but I inadvertently booked a baby showing they did they do like baby

1:04:37ok showing they allow people to bring babies and if they cry lol

1:04:41not happy about this but it turned out at the matter there is like one big hole

1:04:45through the crowd like ones but it wouldn't matter but that might exist

1:04:49near you if you can find that that is the kind of thing you would have around

1:04:53that area around me now

1:04:55now there's no Alabama Drafthouse cinema near here at least an hour away

1:04:59welterweight look at look at me look at local theaters to see if they have any

1:05:02leak BB showings of movies I think some theaters are in to do that now I went to

1:05:06an art show was great what does that include as they only know you know

1:05:11people who are dressed up for people who think seriously about ever dressing up

1:05:15for people who could safely be friends with someone who dresses up very

1:05:18respectful there that's how I thought the only way to do it

1:05:20did they market it that way or is it just now but it just happens naturally

1:05:24we congregate I clearly am NOT a card-carrying nerd as I have no idea

1:05:29when that would be if you saw it on the 17th and especially if you saw it either

1:05:34the very first showing more like a ridiculously late showing the known sane

1:05:38person would ever go to your house at three and its fine arts is the best so I

1:05:44guess we're done talking about this

1:05:4460 minutes thing to be honest I have no I have nothing else to add I mean it was

1:05:49it was interesting to watch it's probably worth the twenty thirty minutes

1:05:53of your time assuming that you live in the united states I I saw something

1:05:58fly-by on Twitter that it's it's locked down to the USB cuz reasons but it is

1:06:03worth your time it don't expect anything monumental I also watched their what

1:06:07they called 60 minutes overtime segments which were not that particularly

1:06:13interesting or worthwhile the one thing I will say is that I was happy to see

1:06:17and clearance come out from the shadows

1:06:20they spoke to her a few times and I was very impressed with her I thought she

1:06:24was really really good which is what one would expect given that she was once the

1:06:27CEO they did have said there were there were some tidbits in there may be honest

1:06:31I know about this but one of the things they were shown like the model Apple

1:06:33Store like oh this is a test that our ideas for Apple there and there was one

1:06:37wall that had a bunch of foliage on it was very weird and I'm assuming no real

1:06:41Apple Store has that info have loved to see that like you know that travels are

1:06:46some ideas I would love to see that idea make it out of the model and be going to

1:06:50the Apple store and the like have one wall of the bunch of green vines hanging

1:06:54down and also the ones were like they had cases and you'd like the case was

1:06:58the poll on the thing lots of ideas there so that doesn't exhibit two

1:07:01seconds and the other reason to watch it that this will make you angry about 60

1:07:06minutes but interested in and seeing this as you get to see him go get fired

1:07:10up about keeping their money overseas and are stupid tax laws and labor

1:07:15practices and stuff it gets kind of angry sounds like a fun time to ask him

1:07:22some questions I always ask him and they don't like he probably game substantive

1:07:26he gave like very substantial thorough and answers to them

1:07:29we've heard him give those answers before I like an apple earnings calls

1:07:32and and the things he has four cycles and everything but in 60 minutes three

1:07:38sentences that they cut out of your big long comprehensive answer and there are

1:07:41three sentences man Tim Cook is the angriest and they don't explain anything

1:07:44in the move on to the next topic so it was really garbage from a perspective of

1:07:50like giving insight to anybody who doesn't know about these issues are you

1:07:53get the idea that we say this leading question

1:07:56angrily denies it I don't know what the truth is not a nation now it's time to

1:08:00ask about something else but it was interesting to see Tim Cook leaning

1:08:04forward in his chair and getting probably the most sort of worked up I

1:08:08never seen him

1:08:09you know public scenario that would have loved to have heard but Steve Jobs are

1:08:15said to the same things that he would have had a smirk more of a smart

1:08:18investing in earnest so either way there was no information like you couldn't

1:08:22draw any conclusions for now like Tim Cook I'm sure gave a good answer but

1:08:27sixty minutes just is not going to air it which is a real shame I would love to

1:08:32see you interview on 60 minutes John and it just seemed like how the heck they

1:08:36would at the guy feel I feel for those guys because they're getting interviewed

1:08:40you know half an hour 20 minutes 45 minutes to an hour and they're gonna

1:08:44take literally five sentences and that's what they're going to buy sentences five

1:08:47of the most dramatic sounding sentences with no surrounding context and is

1:08:51nothing you can do about you can explain yourself before you can explains that

1:08:54they're just gonna pull them out and that's what people are going to see in

1:08:58just like wow they even agree to it why would they agree to be at least they

1:09:01have no control over what the sentences are I don't like it

1:09:06this is honestly this is why I haven't rushed to watch it because I figured

1:09:09like you know TV interviews are so low density he'd like there's so little

1:09:15content in them there's so much padding and time-wasting in them there's no

1:09:19smart speed it's also loadin sorry there is a my Tivo oh yeah of course there is

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1:11:24ago in a galaxy far along time ago we we wanted to talk about something that came

1:11:32out of nowhere and it's a new service product company start-up it's a new

1:11:39thing and it's called up there and it has a lot of X Apple people in it and

1:11:44John I think this was a kind of your baby so what do you want to tell us

1:11:48about up there were transferred later used to be in charge of Apple software

1:11:52stuff and sergeant like I was 10 and everything back for those IOUs and even

1:11:55over after he retired from Apple while ago that's when Craig victory took over

1:12:01basically and he disappeared to go on vacation and do whatever you wanna do

1:12:06but pretty quickly after you left Apple there were rumblings like Oh

1:12:10what's per trans next thing I guess you never really leave I guess we're just

1:12:13leaving become like I don't know a venture capitalist or support other

1:12:18technology things anyway they called the rumor was that he was involved in some

1:12:22kind of start up and they were doing something having to do with computers

1:12:25and that's all anybody knew about it I didn't pay too much attention for health

1:12:29services some point did service couple months back with this company called up

1:12:34there and when I went to their website at first it was like pretty impenetrable

1:12:40cuz they say you know if you have a cloud but translation on your web

1:12:46browser like a lot of what's going on here was doing some cloud and their

1:12:52computers and it's like how what is different about this company seem like

1:12:58they were saying they were going to store a bunch of stuff on their servers

1:13:01so you wouldn't have to start on yours

1:13:03honestly I have looked at this it's been the show notes for like two months I've

1:13:07looked at this every so often before the show and I cannot figure out what it is

1:13:12and why why do care about it and like the court upheld from the CEO was not be

1:13:16translated by the way is just one of the founders but to see roger tamraz's we

1:13:21like the way to backup to vanish from dictionary we built a consumer cloud

1:13:25from the ground up oh here we go we questioned everything literally

1:13:28experiment a lot of the cloud to be the primary place for your data this summer

1:13:33that the whole idea is like it's kind of like a Chromebook you know back up a

1:13:37Chromebook basis nothing on it that isn't already owns your Google service

1:13:41right up there the whole idea is don't worry about what's on your phone or on

1:13:46your Mac or wherever you want to be that's that's just like a local cash

1:13:50that's not where the toughest check your phone into the ocean

1:13:53who cares there was nothing on it anyway you're fine all your stuff is up there

1:13:57in the cloud and the like from the second quarters we experimented a lot

1:14:03they've been in stealth mode as they say for a long time so who knows what

1:14:08they've been doing behind the scenes but they do have a beta program and I'm on

1:14:12the beta and

1:14:13its public pay-per-view sign up for it I don't you know and they have a couple

1:14:19applications Mac application and as an iOS application of the ones I use them

1:14:25and it's like there were loud bang sign up they already have two factor

1:14:30authentication error that was really nice out of the gate because if you're

1:14:33gonna be a cloud thing I can add that I can your fifth year something is

1:14:36important to have it now and then I want you to put stuff into the crowd and they

1:14:41have like an easy button press it's like hey do you want to put your photos liver

1:14:45into the crowd and it's my photos library now like the family once a month

1:14:48or is likely only has like 10,000 Photo Center something like sure to go take

1:14:52those you know like I mean a lot of this going on just trusting Bergeron

1:14:55certainly not lady company or whatever and drag files into it whatever just

1:15:03whatever funds I told to pull my photos library just let it do its thing

1:15:08eventually uploaded my photos library and on the iOS application I can go and

1:15:13I can browse through all my photos in iPhoto library in like ten thousand or

1:15:16so there was some weirdness in that phone totally sink like uploaded them

1:15:22from my Mac and then to get the phone totally saying there was the best way to

1:15:28do it was to have the phone in the application launches like an option that

1:15:33says don't don't let your phone go to sleep when applications in the

1:15:35foreground because he gets up loads better faster when the application is

1:15:38running in the foreground I know that was an option but apparently it is it

1:15:41anyway they got everything uploaded there they have a camera application as

1:15:45well which is kind of getting more into have a source to work it's a camera for

1:15:50your phone and you launch this application instead of luck in nineteen

1:15:53Apple's camera application you take pictures but instead of the pictures

1:15:56going on to your phone the pictures go directly into the cloud and if it's

1:16:00there is you'll never feel your phone with pictures you know that's that's a

1:16:04real thing that a lot of people have smartphones do is they take pictures

1:16:07take pictures take pictures and they thought their phone and I was storage

1:16:10management is such that there is not a real easy way out of that without you

1:16:14need to have an iPod photo library

1:16:16that turned on do you have a Mac and you know that their thing is never gonna

1:16:22throw your phone because we don't put the pictures on your phone you take

1:16:25pictures and we need to upload them now obviously everything that up there is

1:16:30predicated on you having a network connection like a network connection

1:16:32being somewhat reliable and somewhat you know having a reasonable amount of

1:16:37bandwidth so its authority looking play where the future is not going to be

1:16:43doing stuff local anything how to sync it the future is going to be pushing

1:16:47everything up that that's a pretty safe bet what it all comes down to that with

1:16:51us that that's why everyone hears about this entry through website and thinks

1:16:53that it's like whatever you're like uploading stuff to a server somewhere

1:16:57who cares what it all comes down to his execution how well does uploads doctors

1:17:02think ever get stuck does can access go through all 10,000 I pictures how long

1:17:07does it take for the thumbnail slowed and I don't know what exactly they're

1:17:11doing tech wise because the website is not eliminating I would imagine since

1:17:15they've been still thought a really long time but they're trying to do is come up

1:17:17with a better interface then like the application uses posits a pas de deux

1:17:22synchronous io to your local disk and then some demon process wonders the file

1:17:26system and like Dropbox or whatever and finds things and opens an HDB connection

1:17:31and shoves the files wanted time to our servers like that's the old way of doing

1:17:35things I don't know if they're doing exactly that or if they are you know I'm

1:17:40imagining sorry is it more interesting abstractions where instead of going

1:17:43through a POSIX file i/o API they have their own file i/o API that does

1:17:49intelligent things like better support for streaming and batching of multiple

1:17:53things and like you know handling failures better and being a synchronous

1:17:59and asynchronous my default being multithreaded and being able to use

1:18:02multiple connections and handling like that's what I'm imagining is behind the

1:18:07scenes but the bottom line is it uploaded all my pictures and when I

1:18:10scroll through them I can scroll through all of them and the thumbnails load and

1:18:14you know pretty fast and when you go to the IRS usage screen to see how much

1:18:20disk space the up their obligations taking up it's like nothing like 90

1:18:24Megabus so I think it really is streaming all the stuff in real time

1:18:27from the cloud as they say

1:18:29and like the picture on their website is storing our entire digital lives photos

1:18:36videos music and documents in a single place that it's always accessible

1:18:39growing evolving ready to share their sharing stuff is in better than Apple

1:18:42already there that you can make like something called loop we can have

1:18:46multiple people putting their foes into a single bucket right and so you know

1:18:50you could do that

1:18:51family photo library where the whole family could have camera applications

1:18:55every picture they take to go into one giant shared thing people can contribute

1:18:58is like it just seems like a forward-looking way to do everything and

1:19:05is a Malaysian good just because they have 5 beta testers and all five of us

1:19:09our connection to their supermassive be terrible and as a million people could

1:19:13the scale to be the size of I kappa music or like a photo I have no idea all

1:19:18I know is that whatever the heck they're doing it's working and Apple should buy

1:19:22them because it's better than everything Apple is doing even though they're not

1:19:24going to upload pictures yes can I see them all guests can scroll through the

1:19:29store any files on my iPhone not as far as I can tell so it does what it says on

1:19:35the tin and it's pretty impressive I have been on the beta for like a week or

1:19:40two now because I didn't get a clear read on what the intention is for the

1:19:46app in fact you describing it as give me a much better understanding than than

1:19:50the very little bit of documentation I read I didn't know to make it seem like

1:19:54the Mac App it has some tabs on the left has flow which I guess is just kind of a

1:19:59good news feed sort of thing it has photos and videos music and documents

1:20:02and it's not i mean i understand what those words mean I understand that

1:20:07presumably I'm supposed to start chucking things in these buckets but it

1:20:12was entirely clear to me what the long-term plays here and I understand

1:20:15that a lot better it seems to work well like you said I mean I'm not I haven't

1:20:20really tried much with it but there's plenty of stuff there and it certainly

1:20:24is streaming things from the cloud like you said very quickly so initial

1:20:30impressions by me were confusion but happy confusion of that if such a thing

1:20:35exists

1:20:35now that I've heard you talk about it I'm very interested to play with the iOS

1:20:39appetite never bothered to download maybe that's half my problem very

1:20:43interested to play with that and see how it goes but it wouldn't surprise me if

1:20:48this was in some ways just an acquisition play to see if Apple was

1:20:52feeling desperate to get away from web checks and and and hire a team that can

1:20:58that can solve this problem once and for all

1:21:00presumably like that it's a tech glad that it's not just that they've done

1:21:04like I said they did you exact same thing everyone else is doing just using

1:21:08HTTP connections with Tara libraries and doing local file i/o and just like you

1:21:13doing that slightly better than you know one percent better than everyone else it

1:21:16seems like the only reason this could ever be a startup is someone has some

1:21:19good ideas about how to abstract the file system on the network in a way that

1:21:24accounts for the modern world news not like backward-looking like it to some

1:21:27degree like even drop boxes that it's just a bunch of local files on desk and

1:21:31it is another process that watches and moves them up and down and I and i wanna

1:21:36talk about something else like surely it is not loading we just on the time

1:21:40surely it is you there

1:21:41chucking them up or streaming them down or like it's not making a new connection

1:21:45everyone definitely right house dealing with like the size of the thumbnails and

1:21:49Mike just and and how is it

1:21:52house keeping up with my scrolling and knowing which things it wants to to load

1:21:55and stuff like that and then right now the beta whatever like I'm not putting

1:21:59anything that nothing is only in my entire photo library they really smart

1:22:04save this one but impressive on to things like the only upload your photo

1:22:06library right i mean you don't use photos so you didn't see that but there

1:22:10wouldn't be useful to you but for me unlike fine go ahead because it's it's

1:22:12just reading from the photos library keep in sync with it and everything too

1:22:15and same thing when I wanna take photos with the regular Apple camera app it

1:22:19like a million other apps like member they did drop box camera operator will

1:22:22try to see when you take pictures with your photo app

1:22:25of those using it now as a toy to play with every once in awhile to see what

1:22:29the performance like trying to figure out what the what the heck they're

1:22:31actually doing behind the scenes and yet another free backup for all my photos

1:22:36near the small of my life not the big lie thought about signing up my wife

1:22:41bought and and trying to put the big library

1:22:44up to the thing to see if it would choke on that because 10,000 is that they have

1:22:47a challenge but about sixty or seventy thousand now can you but maybe I'll do

1:22:51this is torture test but I would never burn it only anything only end up there

1:22:55and you know business model and it's all free basis of knows what they would

1:22:58charge the stuff so it's still a big question mark

1:23:00pricing is a pretty big question mark going like that that matters a lot to

1:23:04how how many people will even bother trying to adopt in the first place

1:23:08because vote libraries can be quite big and if you're talking about like storing

1:23:13all my stuff up there all my documents or even many of my documents plus all my

1:23:17photos plus you know I can immediately that gets very big very quickly

1:23:21especially if you've any video shooting but their explanation and the people

1:23:25behind making things like the obvious that they would take that into account

1:23:27the whole idea is that the old way of doing the other way that everybody else

1:23:31is doing them with sort of using eighties and nineties text to solve my

1:23:35problem is really in the future for the future over everybody as ubiquitous fast

1:23:40connections but as you know getting closer every day that they are coming at

1:23:44it from that perspective they you know they must have smart solutions for not

1:23:48just the API and how to write applications into this bag and but how

1:23:53the backend work how it hosted how it scaled how you know what the economics

1:23:57are how much does it cost for us to host X amount of data can we undercut

1:24:01everyone else prices by using better technology because we can more

1:24:05efficiently store they got him again they don't tell you it's their secret

1:24:09you know whatever I have no idea what it means but all I can look at is the front

1:24:13and the front end seems to work more smoothly than every other friend and I

1:24:19try to be there be Dropbox or Microsoft's one drive thing or Google

1:24:24Drive or like we've all tried all these different things

1:24:27casa so many different services that it that are like this and you know they're

1:24:34good ones I use Dropbox all-time like they're not they're not bad but this

1:24:37impressed me with just how sort of no nonsense and smooth it is and how I

1:24:43don't even know how they're doing it how like how is that I'm able to scroll

1:24:46through ten thousand photos and the thumbnails like they're not they're

1:24:49instantly there's little white squares initially but they pretty fast ball

1:24:53screens on this I don't have no idea how it's doing that but it's pretty

1:24:56impressive

1:24:57assuming that this actually becomes a thing and and launches to the public

1:25:02some kind of business model is one thing would you obviously they don't want to

1:25:06be your cloud backup service they want to be your primary storage and possibly

1:25:13your only stories therefore cos is there even easy way to like maintain a local

1:25:18copy of everything or do they really not want to do that that's what I'm getting

1:25:21at I don't know like maybe that's the long-term plan obviously the right now

1:25:26they are perfectly willing to be on everest they will pull in content and

1:25:30sit like you don't have to manually so I took some new photos with my phone like

1:25:33they were every time you launch the app it will sync up any new photos you've

1:25:37taken any time at anything to my photos I'm not using up there at this point but

1:25:41up there is every time I launch it is playing all that stuff in so it's a

1:25:46great sort of on-ramp like that they they want to make it easier for people

1:25:50to lunch at that and say we know you have elsewhere and probably you want to

1:25:53keep yourself elsewhere and probably going to deal with elsewhere but we're

1:25:57here too and they would have to sort of get you into the flow by saying we're

1:26:01cheaper than your other hosting a more reliable than photos eventually become

1:26:04trustworthy I mean realistically speaking depardieu by somebody for any

1:26:08of this happens but look impressive but you know I don't see any reason why they

1:26:13would you getting out of things like would you would you ever like put your

1:26:16stuff in there would you trust it as primary stories because they're trying

1:26:21to get rid of backups I don't know that I could do that well I mean like its

1:26:26aspiration obviously get rid of backups because if immediate your datacenter and

1:26:32stuff right so where is gonna have a nice have you know my my backups and my

1:26:36Time Machine and I clone and and the question of can you have locally copies

1:26:41were yep I just keep using photos and I have one of them access to always have a

1:26:45low copy the photos and have 17 backups of that including online like that's the

1:26:49way I will continue to go but I could see for example not enabling the the

1:26:57thing that lets you know that whatever the iCloud photo library lets you see

1:27:00your entire library on your phone because it's too onerous or maybe an

1:27:02enabling but never going to like for example when someone says I like I can

1:27:08be accessed 04 Leverkusen as someone

1:27:10ask questions like What did you know you could look like when he was three years

1:27:13old right I like being able to launch a thing on the phone and go to the year

1:27:17and say you know I have access to everything I think this year but it's

1:27:21lowered to do that with iCloud photo library than it is to do that with up

1:27:24there just because it is I can go to the year faster and faster and you know like

1:27:30that's that's a win for me of that that takes over that role where I no longer

1:27:36go to photos to look at my photos I just go up there because the same things are

1:27:40both places and has nothing to do with that said whatever it's a long road from

1:27:44there to the aspirational goal of like a week it by yourself and that's right but

1:27:48I i truly believe in that state not the end of backups but maybe in the backups

1:27:54for regular people like where you could get it to the point where it's reliable

1:27:58on redundant enough that you won't be a big thing about now you're obsessed with

1:28:02people like have you ever backed up your phone

1:28:05have you enabled like that for a library if I run over your phone with the car

1:28:09are checking into the ocean

1:28:11did you just lose the pictures of your infant child has now five years all

1:28:14because you never impede your phone before the whole problem filling your

1:28:17phone with photos like all those concerns I would like to be addressed

1:28:21then go adding Android is better to dressing down Apple's catching up with

1:28:25the photo library and up there is trying to say we're out we're way out here at

1:28:28the extreme where you guys want to be and I'm selling it as a competition

1:28:35between implementations really at this point and their implication looks pretty

1:28:38good

1:28:39they slept for three sponsors this week

1:28:42Leinart fracture and Harry's and we'll see you next week

1:28:48now the show they didn't even mean to begin to see it was accidental

1:28:56accidental

1:29:00Casey

1:29:04and a team are cool

1:29:47I do about plugging it is quite good

1:29:52magical you spent well maybe you didn't spend any money this week Marco but you

1:29:58in you

1:29:58in you

1:30:00kid yourself to spending some money sometime soon you wanna tell us about

1:30:03that I spent son is a deposit yes so in order to test left and you lost the bet

1:30:10I know I I knew already that I lost the bet nobody else did the bet was in there

1:30:16in the winnings were just bragging rights

1:30:19the bet was that Marco would absolutely get the performance version of whatever

1:30:23testified that he ended up buying and that's because Marco doesn't typically

1:30:28know how to do halfway on anything as it turns out I lost the bet and you did not

1:30:34get a p90 D or E

1:30:36p90 no deal whatever it is I forget the different permutations what did you end

1:30:41up getting I want to run run through the set up with us I got the 9th ed so it is

1:30:48approximately m5 speed and maximum range available in a test today it's white

1:30:55because it's the only color cars can be in getting its read my first non

1:31:03dark-colored car in a long day ever really my first non black car in a

1:31:08decade at least so red Tesla 9th ed is coming in late March when my lease is up

1:31:14but I ordered it now to get take advantage of some discount they were

1:31:17running before the year was nineteen silver cyclone wheels I know in in the

1:31:24pictures so I can read you can argue that the dark colored wheels would

1:31:28probably look better and in pictures they do first of all I think up-close

1:31:33look a little bit flat like it they almost look like painted plastic I know

1:31:38they're not just like the finish on them is kinda like flat a little bit dull

1:31:42they also because it is just like you know i didnt color coding on top of a

1:31:47regular one of these made it a steel aluminum metal depends anyway so

1:31:53whatever metal it is probably aluminum the dark colored wheels any kind of curb

1:31:58rash anywhere any scratches whatsoever on them that bright color metal below

1:32:03just shines right through and you can see everything and and sure enough I get

1:32:07whatever i'd i'd be a Tesla dealer looking at these things they would often

1:32:11be customer cars park

1:32:13in the lot like you know just getting service to people visiting to cooking

1:32:17utensils or whatever and every car I saw in person that was a customer-owned car

1:32:21that had dark wheels on it had very visible scratches on those people can

1:32:27just drive just can't drive went past a black model S today with the big dark

1:32:34colored wheels at the supermarket their red brake calipers too I think there are

1:32:38no scratches on the yeah if it has the red calipers that is AP model it was

1:32:42tempting to spend twenty grand extra just for red calipers but I did not get

1:32:49a lot more than red calipers but point noted will but obviously so you get the

1:32:53red calipers and you get the faster rear-ended another has the details of

1:32:59the two engines the rear engine is faster but those are actually the only

1:33:02two differences plus you get less range but like the suspension is all the same

1:33:07everything else about the cars the same I've confirmed with multiple people from

1:33:11my drive and it totally is certainly seems that way the the only thing

1:33:16different is the engine the red calipers and you the option for a spoiler on the

1:33:21back of a hate you got red you got the 19 inch super cyclone wheels what other

1:33:26options he said ninety days ninety black interior sunroof auto pilot range

1:33:33upgrade premium interior the big national seats I did not get the smart

1:33:38air suspension this I was going to and i did some reading and did some research

1:33:43and it sounds like the air suspension really does make the car feel more like

1:33:49a cushy or softer ride and I did not think that that was even when I wanted

1:33:57let alone worth $2,500 extra on the purchase price even the leasing still it

1:34:02would be out paper behalf of that so i didnt get smart air suspension I want a

1:34:07more firm sporty ride and I did not get the ultra high fidelity sound because I

1:34:14I did a back-to-back tests of those in the showroom an Patel's very little

1:34:17difference in the two sound system than either of them sounded great to me like

1:34:20they presented honestly pretty mediocre

1:34:23I figured I might as well not spend extra money on mediocrity I did get the

1:34:27sub-zero weather package because they live in a place with bill seasons and

1:34:30did not get the rear facing seats because for the next three years of this

1:34:33lease will cover my wife I decided that we would probably not be comfortable

1:34:37with our kid in those seized during this age period by enough to make it worth

1:34:42getting them for an extra $3,000 where'd you get as the interior trim like accent

1:34:47get but carbon fiber looking you know that was actually a tough call the

1:34:52carbon fiber looks decent but kinda like hurt my eyes and anticipate you hear

1:34:57matters a lot because she has the passenger usually when I'm driving she

1:35:01sees the trim way more than I do cuz it's as big strip right front passenger

1:35:05side and in the driver side you don't really see much of it so she didn't care

1:35:09for the carbon fiber so you know that was fun

1:35:13the two would like a basically a glossy and matte what I didn't look at the map

1:35:17so I was basically I between glossy wood and the piano black the piano black my

1:35:22current car has that I know I like it is very nice that being said it shows

1:35:26fingerprints and scratches like crazy but I decided ultimately I would rather

1:35:30have your printed piano black trim

1:35:33like it better I'd rather have that than perfect glossy wood trim and stoked I am

1:35:39yeah I'm actually looking forward to 20 something new I mentioned before I love

1:35:44having him five it's been great I do however miss although Dr yes I know

1:35:48they're adding it to the next model but it isn't there now I also mentioned

1:35:52earlier that I really want a quieter car BMW does not currently sell a quieter

1:35:57car that has all wheel drive that has a transmission that I would tolerate said

1:36:02maybe the is is 335 extra is still available and stick you know I don't

1:36:07know it's a 340 now anyway but I honestly don't know I would think not

1:36:12think I think it might be that would probably only option 25 sears is totally

1:36:15out of 5 Series you can't get that you can't you can get a stick with I would

1:36:19drive if at all anymore and you can't deceive any the five series and I will

1:36:24not drive the Sprott oh yes I've driven it and no it is not the same as if the

1:36:29test is it in some ways it's not as good as as the m5 and I'm not expecting it to

1:36:34match it in a luxury feel feat

1:36:37jurors the interior is more luxurious feeling no question and very much going

1:36:43to miss the heads up display and the top-down parking camera that since the

1:36:47last real-time follow-up you can get a 340 i xDrive with a manual transmission

1:36:52ok so that is the only other car BMW makes that would consider getting right

1:36:57now to the new lineup but that also I I really don't like the F 33 series

1:37:03honestly I don't like it I don't like the steering system I don't really care

1:37:07for the way it looks and and I think the interior has actually gotten lower

1:37:12quality in certain ways in the previous three series and the lack of the All

1:37:17button on the climate control just kills me that is really insane I don't know

1:37:21why you're not shopping Mercedes at this point you never talk never talked about

1:37:25Mercedes but he's now safely within the most diverse cities you know market I I

1:37:32did I i recent trip I actually I rented a Mercedes guy I was on a trip about a

1:37:38year ago I had to rent a car and I rented a e-class their version 5 Series

1:37:43yeah yes I rented and eat something something it was like the v-6 roughly

1:37:48300 horsepower like they basically their version of 335 early 535 I wouldn't say

1:37:53that but yeah anyway so I rented that a driver for a few days and it was a

1:37:57really nice driving car but definitely not for me overall I think they I think

1:38:04first of all I don't care pharmacies designs very much at their little bit

1:38:07dated for me well when you say that you mean exterior design yes host I think

1:38:13they've gotten pretty lili although that being said the brand brand brand new

1:38:17ones are very bubbly and I'm not as into that but up until about this year the

1:38:22year prior

1:38:23there was like a five-year stretch where they went from really really really

1:38:27boring to actually very pretty but for me it's a non-starter because they don't

1:38:33believe in three pedals I know but like but he doesn't have three pedals anymore

1:38:37anyway he has a has introduced as I understand like I feel like a Mercedes S

1:38:41Class like when you come back from your hangover by then the S Class might be

1:38:48like it might be I don't know but I also I I really don't care for the mercedes

1:38:53media system change every year but he's not received at five years or whatever

1:39:01but yeah I know they're all they're all terrible and yeah I mean I'm not saying

1:39:05to be tested forever I'm saying we are going to be tested for the next three

1:39:07years

1:39:08that's the police cars but so I i am looking forward to trying something new

1:39:13to try and electric to it being a truly different and I'm seeing as I said when

1:39:19I drove them to at least feeling modern really filled with today and you know in

1:39:2330 in three years and I have to choose my next vehicle whether I get another

1:39:28test or something else by that time there will probably be more options or

1:39:33or more compelling

1:39:35options from the other luxury brands right now there really isn't much there

1:39:39will definitely be there forever they've all got a test

1:39:42fighters in in the works like that that Porsche concept looks really nice

1:39:45honestly I don't know if that will get that would pan out into something and

1:39:49god knows how much it will cost to it does but it does look really nice on

1:39:53paper at least we'll see what happens with Mercedes and BMW and Audi and I you

1:39:57know and you know even accurate any anybody else we'll see what happens in

1:40:01their electric department right now as I have to make a decision right now

1:40:05Tesla is by far my favorite option of what I was available right now I'm

1:40:11excited for you should be really awesome to be sad to not have you personally in

1:40:17the BMW family anymore but at least your family will still be a BMW family don't

1:40:22worry I'm sure at some point we'll be back there is a lot about the way BMW

1:40:27does things that I do prefer you know I do prefer not having a giant touch

1:40:32screen I think you know it will see again we'll see what happens when I get

1:40:34it but I do think I'm gonna prefer still haven't hardware knobs two giant screens

1:40:38if given the choice I do certainly like a heads up display and I do like the BMW

1:40:44quality interior and that's in the 5 series so maybe eventually there will be

1:40:48and all-electric 5 series that will be really compelling that will be nice to

1:40:53me that because that will eliminate the problem I have with the regular 5 series

1:40:57of having a transmission I hate if they can move to not having a transmission

1:41:01that does solve the probable we'll see what happens

1:41:05did you ask people if the model is designed for short trips can get

1:41:12examined her will is designed for that chicken salad John thing on my stomach I

1:41:18prefer XO Why What yeah this is worse than the windows thing I'm not against

1:41:25my go-to I would get cinnamon raisin bagel with egg salad on it wrapped up in

1:41:32wax paper and then cut in half through the wax paper as you know as a proper ok

1:41:37there are so many things wrong with this kid Kerr first of all is similar raisin

1:41:41bagel does not belong with any of the salads that is that is it illegal

1:41:45combination you're wrong you are so about that you don't know what you're

1:41:50missing john you're out of your mind

1:41:51second of all eggs salad only belongs on bread not bagels because it is such a

1:41:56soft feeling that you bite into a bagel it squeezes out I understand I

1:42:02understand the difficulties to hold the magic is getting that right

1:42:05it seems like it shouldn't work it seems like it should be a disaster that you

1:42:08would bite down at all we do is cause the bagel to choose digs out shooting

1:42:12out the side with an empty bag with but know it can be done we have the

1:42:17technology the wax paper is key

1:42:20you know your local deli that but you know I enrolled in during cutting

1:42:24basically right but they rapid really tightly and holding during cutting and

1:42:28you can move them back and eat it and it won't come shooting out the side and at

1:42:34the bagel is fresh and it's not like a stale big hard brick Cape thing you can

1:42:39actually buy it and not lose all of your Excel is a delicate balance I understand

1:42:43this is I haven't had a good one of those I don't know how many decades

1:42:47because ever be this terrible concept as a great content and is an advanced

1:42:53technique for you with if you want to make a bagel sandwich at home for

1:42:56example say you want a peanut butter and jelly on toast a bagel bitchez fabulous

1:42:58but I was

1:43:00to the bagel shop and that it was always a disaster whenever somebody order

1:43:06because that squeezes out like crazy I know I know let me give you a little

1:43:12tipsy r

1:43:14billion toasted bagel home how can you possibly make that work it seems like it

1:43:18should work on all right you don't know now you do we have we have ways so you

1:43:22toast the bagel and then one half of it you sort of dig a trench for the judge

1:43:28to go and you don't play at all the insides leaving a trench then you put

1:43:32the Chilean the trench the peanut butter that legal

1:43:35the peanut butter will stay on its own for the most part then you assemble it

1:43:39you can eat that sandwich nothing else we're out the side if assembled

1:43:43correctly nothing about the size and what you have is a toasted bagel sammich

1:43:47the things I do with bagels understands these advanced techniques Vance that I'm

1:43:52not sure that Holmes first of all accounts it counts as well as a key to

1:43:59hollow out some part of you eat the part you take out throwing it away the trick

1:44:03is not takes so much out of it you just basically left with just a crust right

1:44:07you have to take just the right amount will tuna has enough stretch into his

1:44:11very similar chicken salad and texturally it has enough strength

1:44:13internally to tolerate you can get more you can get more in there anyway you

1:44:19don't always have to do with Tony right it can hold together I like to sell it

1:44:22and I like bagels and I like bagels with tuna or chicken on them at no point have

1:44:27I ever had a bagel with tuna salad or chicken soured and thought I need to

1:44:31find ways to show up more of it and here I thought that because you can fit a lot

1:44:36in the regular way it really depends on how stiff your mixture as you know John

1:44:42and it is there all good things that are going hungry even thinking about them

1:44:45you're so wrong with these are all delicious things these are all delicious

1:44:50things that you can make in your own home you did these are terrible terrible

1:44:54things to know everything you just said has been wrong the first time I think

1:45:00any input about what's proper aideed bagels from some of his regime and

1:45:04second of all I'm also not going to take that interview somebody who just

1:45:07recently moved to New York which one of us is a New York right now oh recently

1:45:11moved to New York

1:45:12eight years ago her up there now what I got a big salad I i just am so i cant

1:45:20get past against egg salad is it and some anti-aids exam is delicious I i in

1:45:26general I I think I am against it and I i mean alot of fakes out of my life now

1:45:31the truth comes out against the egg salad bar garment against the bed for

1:45:36america is that exactly what happened to me a salad is not worth it when you have

1:45:46other options that are similar to its only if all you have in a store is a

1:45:50salad finally takes out but if right next to it is tuna salad and chicken

1:45:56salad those are both way better so I can be in any context in which I would

1:46:01choose egg salad with chicken or tuna salad or cream cheese or any other

1:46:06league sandwich topping were available I I like all of those things those are all

1:46:11good I feel like you have to mix it up you don't have the same thing every day

1:46:14you know maybe maybe your place that makes better chance than a cake so you

1:46:19cannot turn your nose up that I have never had egg salad that was good enough

1:46:23to overcome decent chickens out like I've had i think is fine but that's the

1:46:30most I've ever thought about six hours it's fine in other forms like I love

1:46:33deviled eggs which are very similar really in a deviled eggs have a lot of

1:46:37similarities in taste and ingredients to exile just in different shape and

1:46:41preparation but you know I love Asian other forms just egg salad is it's just

1:46:49so mediocre compared to the other options that it's usually next to its

1:46:55exiled is the sesame bagel of the salad

1:46:59come out against sesame bagels

1:47:03Abbott sesame bagels but you have to send email there one of the greatest

1:47:08bagels

1:47:09what I have against them is similar to have against a stout it's not worth it

1:47:12when you have better options nearby so it's like a sesame bagel is fine I've

1:47:17had many emails in my life

1:47:18they're fine chocolate cake for every meal every me john john you've been out

1:47:27of new york particular lost touch it it's no I am the only one here who is in

1:47:32touch you got use in Virginia and we've got him is coming around the world

1:47:36outside of bagels who was only recently which one of us goes to build up every

1:47:42day in New York oh that's right I i'm saying I guess you're coming from Ohio

1:47:46or average is trying to figure out this crazy new world and making it up as you

1:47:50go along the way it is why would you go get a sesame bagel with egg salad again

1:47:58sesame bagels and against the exam is not a position you want to stake out to

1:48:03an everything bagel with chickens out which is right next to those two you

1:48:07can't have everything on it you're always going to have never done

1:48:11everything big wasn't great but the whole idea that every single time you

1:48:14have it you have the most you know the best topping the big with the most stuff

1:48:19on it sometimes you gotta have you know there's a certain place for the poppy

1:48:24seed bagel sometimes you can have the plane bigger why would anyone there have

1:48:27a plain bagel people do it happens sometimes that's the right combination

1:48:31by not getting the really expensive tests you still getting the everything

1:48:39bagel with chicken salad because you can't bring yourself to have anything

1:48:42that you consider lesser but they're not lesser they're just different I mean I i

1:48:46have different big orders like I love a toasted bagel with butter and if you're

1:48:50gonna love butter everything is a good choice but so is rye or pumpernickel

1:48:54everything to make anything anyway because those things are actually good

1:49:02bagels are like they're like I would say a properly a proper toasted rye bagel

1:49:07with butter is just as good as it has everything bagel with butter but a

1:49:12sesame bagel is like the plane go to the dakotas his again either plaintively

1:49:16and the topping is included in everything and itself has almost no

1:49:22taste

1:49:23got everything it's already trying to find some common ground here

1:49:29caraway seeds and everything bagels yes I now know what I could just making sure

1:49:33that some people some people want that know everything bagels require five

1:49:37things sesame poppy garlic onion salt it is missing any of those things don't

1:49:41leave out the salt midwestern people it is missing any of those things it is not

1:49:45a proper everything bagel some people like the caraway seeds I gotta say no to

1:49:48that also some people put some flowers he done which is illegal now forget

1:49:52about the snow on there I can't handle it comes to John you're so out of touch

1:49:59it it's the only one who's in touch on the only one with authentic bagel

1:50:05experience in Connecticut have gotten nothing and Marco is

1:50:08tourists will see big leading world email John this weekend tell you what

1:50:14she was right

1:50:15leading world it's not it's not a democracy is the people who live in the

1:50:18New York metro area and everybody else and everyone else is wrong and we are

1:50:21right we don't live in the New York metro area I did I lived there I am I'm

1:50:27from there I will it will never leave me he can take whatever out of new york you

1:50:31know that you left it and I'm here today I can I can I can it's a Christmas

1:50:43miracle

1:50:45John so much right now this is terrible

1:50:50this really is worse than the like 90 windows thing I now i cant believe me

1:50:57bagels seriously protesters outside your house a sesame bagel with egg salad

1:51:02terrible it's so boring I don't have a sesame CII absurd it's like pairing you

1:51:08know pairing wine with meals no its not that that's that's kill yo yesterday yet

1:51:13that's where you're wrong you don't even understand you don't even know this is a

1:51:15skill that you can have let alone have the skills they pairing lightly flavored

1:51:19water sharing the bagel with the thing you put on it is a skill I agree I just

1:51:25don't think you have everything goes on an everything bagel right here I will I

1:51:30will fix this Marco do you or do you not put locks on a bagel

1:51:35I don't I don't like fish box but I recognize that you've ruined my many

1:51:41people love putting lox and bagels and were I to choose a bagel for locks

1:51:46everything will be pretty high on the list cuz I know people like that kind of

1:51:49like salt garlic onion flavor with the loss I know it's a very common

1:51:53combination John do would you do lox and bagel you know that finally we agree you

1:51:59too so ignorant but I just don't like fish when it's

1:52:04I have tried like I know what I'm missing and i'd like every time I said I

1:52:09like fish for four years like if you have to have a good for everyone

1:52:13good fish seems like I don't like sushi either there's some overlap there and

1:52:17ever so you haven't had good sushi and eventually somebody brings me to a place

1:52:21where they say ok this is good next thing I don't like I try it and I get I

1:52:26give it an honest shot and I hardly ever end up liking it but at least I but I

1:52:31can at least in an okay i atleast know what I'm missing now I N I have

1:52:36confirmed that I honestly don't like this but I've had the good thing maybe I

1:52:40can see why you like it you know but I can't see why anybody ever order

1:52:45acceptable for anything that's why I tried to call you when I'm there it

1:52:50seems like if you were going to be a big ol you might as well just get plane or

1:52:53if you if you want if you want flavor and stuff you get everything can all

1:52:57agree on sesame only you are agreeing on sesame and the rest of the New York

1:53:03metro area is not a state to meet the sesame bagel is it's like that that's

1:53:08like that's what the duck computer that's my favorite kind of bagel like I

1:53:12like them all but he would you put on it in your expert bagel pairing experience

1:53:17things the things that pair well with me

1:53:20surveyed with butter on it is very nice to meet with two very nice if I had to

1:53:27get to consolidate your daily I would probably go with us

1:53:27get to consolidate your daily I would probably go with us

0:00:00your shopping done I think but I haven't wrapped everything yet and so that

0:00:06always leaves me wondering like maybe I forgot something or somebody or I didn't

0:00:11get enough for somebody or something so it's always a baseline level of stress

0:00:15mode is very worried about not having gotten somebody something or enough

0:00:19that's why you have a spreadsheet to track these sorts of things that would

0:00:24be wise if I was thinking that far ahead yes I will I agree that that's the kind

0:00:29of thing I should do I assume john has just a series of scripts to figure out

0:00:33what to buy people now I don't do anything I was thinking maybe you would

0:00:37have just a large number of Windows I've met that would be merry you like maybe

0:00:42like one window that has like 50000 tabs right in it that was just like one tab

0:00:47for every person I've ever known for each gift that you might someday maybe

0:00:49wanna get them plus the one you did get them to the path for comparison a

0:00:52reference accident does make a lot of money that you need burndown chart for a

0:00:56number of gifts you have to buy other people

0:00:59burndown chart I was meant to say there's no way market knows that it is a

0:01:03nice who doesn't like business yeah not suffer development thing but also a

0:01:08business thing what happens in a burned-out try to me it sounds really

0:01:11fun and getting it isn't now it's not so you're looking for

0:01:14think it's because they look like flames of hell like a layered bar chart but

0:01:18you're trying to make it go down to 0 like you're trying to make all these

0:01:21different things like how many of Acts how many or how many of the little bars

0:01:24over time trying to do is drop them all to hear anybody and he gets the call I'm

0:01:30in the midst of reconciling our visa bill which is making me mildly upset cuz

0:01:34it's the holidays like during the podcast I'm almost done if you want we

0:01:40can we can discuss watching paint dry as best they know this is hugely

0:01:43entertaining we can we can walk through a sort algorithm on the air and just

0:01:48like an example data set of a house or diagram sorts it out on super fun yeah I

0:01:53use this app called money while which is what a name just check your money down

0:01:57oh well I was like oh well at some point to leave right now it's a bucket

0:02:03full of money but anyway so I like for transactions away from reconciling my

0:02:08visa bill in the next to pay it

0:02:09delightful because of the holiday season now I'm broke the fact that your holiday

0:02:15purchases are already on a bill you've received means that you are way more

0:02:19ahead of the game that I well we should start with this is a monumental so this

0:02:29is a Christmas miracle to the best of my knowledge and i am not presently looking

0:02:32at the notes cuz I'm finishing writing spelling bees that bill but to the best

0:02:35of my knowledge still just how long it will take to you sit here and wait watch

0:02:41this and we can't watch has not seen anything boom reconciled done how does

0:02:45it feel to be reconciled so great except now I gotta pay is not cheap but you are

0:02:52reconciled that that is so it's like closure for all of your money or your

0:02:57saying goodbye to all of your money in a fully closed state that's true you could

0:03:01say I have some reconcilable differences but you reconcile them you have

0:03:04reconcile differences away waiting for that market in but I guess you just give

0:03:10up that was pretty proud of that anyway what the crap we talked about earlier

0:03:18outside do we are doing not have follow-up I should take a screenshot of

0:03:23our show notes where there is the heading follow up there is a single

0:03:27bullet and there is nothing else runs on vacation I think we had a couple of the

0:03:31shows were there was nothing that I can make something out of nothing but I need

0:03:34anything to make up is everyone is off and went on to star wars and on vacation

0:03:38and follow-up to that end can we establish that I have not seen Star Wars

0:03:44and I presume marco hasn't either and so I do not wish to talk about it and I do

0:03:47not assume Marco never will so that's true well actually I wanted to start

0:03:51this episode with with a bit of a game with a three truths and a lie on those

0:03:58things from corporate america as ice-breaker they use so so there's

0:04:04here's here's three truths three statements of these are true and one of

0:04:07them is allowing you to figure out which one is the understatement

0:04:10any of our any of these things store spotless no number one I wrote my first

0:04:16swift code not possible number two I played journey number three

0:04:23I went to see Star Wars and number for a start using Pinterest I went to see Star

0:04:29Wars the line because martin Dempsey things Casey I would concur with that

0:04:34but it's hard to vote against you actually writing like there's no way you

0:04:39for this way if you're such an old man that there's no way but I would have to

0:04:42agree with John that that that is the line that you you you have not seen Star

0:04:47Wars you should go with your instinct AC really useful Star Wars and I didn't I

0:04:53said what if I went today to a movie theater to see Star Wars wow how did

0:04:58that help whose idea was that I'm flabbergasted was actually my idea but

0:05:03she was also planning on going anyway so it's kind of mutual did you do this just

0:05:08so you can read the internet without worrying about spoilers or maybe tipped

0:05:11it was worried about the policy will part of it was because I like I

0:05:16basically has no podcasts left my podcast player that I can play without

0:05:21being about Star Wars

0:05:22everything that I haven't listened to this week is about Star Wars and I've

0:05:25listened to everything else so you actually concerned about hearing stories

0:05:28suppose that means like otherwise you'd like whatever star respond with

0:05:31something I don't care I'm never going to say it was the greatest thing is you

0:05:35know all of you Star Wars fans have been trying so hard to avoid spoilers to go

0:05:39to ridiculous lanes I successfully avoided any split about the movie simply

0:05:43by just not really caring about the movie

0:05:47I don't put any effort into avoiding spoilers but I went into the theater

0:05:50today knowing nothing about being pleasantly surprised by everything in it

0:05:55yeah i i i would say I've been avoiding spoilers but I haven't been going to

0:06:01particular links to do so it's just if i seemed like a tweet fly by the looks

0:06:05like it might be spoiler spoiler and then I'll just skip over it and I

0:06:10haven't been reading reviews or anything like that I'd ask friends that have seen

0:06:13it do you like it and that's all I've asked and you've got me some hints as to

0:06:18the quality of the movie but I've not seen it I'm hoping the air and I will be

0:06:22able to see it maybe even tomorrow actually but but I'm still avoiding

0:06:25spoilers and I think my time is running out because I think the Internet is

0:06:28kinda collectively decided from what I can tell that shortly after Christmas

0:06:31all bets are off in and everyone's going to talk about everything and that's

0:06:35that's part of why I went to see it because I'm fine ignoring major cultural

0:06:39events I've never seen any of Lord of the Rings never seen Harry Potter never

0:06:43seen Twilight anything like it looks like the big movie franchises have

0:06:47either never seen or seen some along time ago and never again let me help you

0:06:51Lord of the Rings big waste of time

0:06:53Harry Potter's pretty good reverse that please e-mail John anyway so but this

0:06:58one this one felt very very important to my circles like more so than those other

0:07:04ones did and also I i have seen movies I I did enjoy them you know I am A Star

0:07:10Wars fandom is not like a massive star wars Star Wars fan in general so I did

0:07:16want to see it at some point I was planning on watching it when it came out

0:07:19the video maybe or something I get on Netflix when I figure like it is going

0:07:22to be talked about so much

0:07:24and it's so important you know in in the in the circles that I know I live in

0:07:28that I figured I kinda had to go see it in the theater I should have gone the

0:07:33plain states in retrospect the links you would go to to prevent yourself from

0:07:40writing any swift that should have been the opposite I mean you have gone

0:07:45through some serious mental gymnastics in order to get to the point that you

0:07:48can justify not writing swift I didn't say I'm never ready for the time saying

0:07:52no transcript yet but I do intend to learn it probably when 3.0 comes out

0:07:56next year because they're doing a bunch of big changes to lead up to that well

0:08:00you could just change your mind about it recently like in the past like oh I did

0:08:03you know that Pakistan was like I'm not gonna lie within the open source thing

0:08:07came out and turned around so you're trying to do so but the real tell us

0:08:10that the fact that we're talking about star wars and that prompted you to do

0:08:13the crystal I think so I mean I already had the list I mean I knew you played

0:08:20journey and other ones are easy so I was just down to the swept in the Star Wars

0:08:23it just seems so crazy viewed actually the house and go to a movie theater to

0:08:29Pinterest thing didn't you didn't have any possible to Pinterest thing I know I

0:08:32know you to purchase and you know how do you know everybody here puppies

0:08:37that's right she did yes I I joined a bit I started to Pinterest account so I

0:08:41could collect pictures of puppies watches and things I want to buy for the

0:08:44house like pipe heating rap and the Icicle melting zigzag wired you put on

0:08:50the roof exciting stuff if you find good good pipe wrap whatever you wanna call

0:08:55it tell me because I have stuff around my business stuff you put around the

0:08:58pipes to keep the heat from Chris leaking out into the areas where the

0:09:02pipes goes right

0:09:03know it's it's too late to print them from freezing if you have a pipe in an

0:09:06uncertain space so it's like we have on the garage from forever ago its ancient

0:09:10you know two conductor cable too just like a heat wire that wraps in a coil

0:09:15around a pipe that runs through our garage is insulated said I could freeze

0:09:17that it has burned out and no longer heats so I'm looking at new solution to

0:09:23that and they're all basically scaring me into either not doing it or having

0:09:26electrician do it because in all basically says that these things are

0:09:30insanely dangerous and you will start fires and they all require insulation

0:09:33around the pipe and everything and yes I'm probably gonna actually outsources

0:09:36job but we will see

0:09:38living in the northeast is the best because you have to worry about BS like

0:09:41this winter

0:09:42not right but what you have really is is months of depressing evil terrible

0:09:48winter light season whereas I have this brief rest bit from from wonderful

0:09:53weather with slightly less wonderful weather and then it's back to wonderful

0:09:58weather again so you can you continue being smug up there and your when your

0:10:01tundra and how that works out it was wonderful there we went there in July I

0:10:06was I was really wonderful whether you had there was one such it was very hard

0:10:13when you get here even for us it was extremely hot also order to test this

0:10:17week that's the big week for you I killed the web fun on your website which

0:10:24by the way I don't really agree with I think that whatever font you have going

0:10:28on now

0:10:28not making me happy no i i don't think I found a solution that I am experimenting

0:10:32with Google web font and might lead to a different web font because the the

0:10:38service I was using the the heifer and Co

0:10:41their ideals and found them in a few benchmarks done by people have shown

0:10:46that typically their web surfing is not as fast as type kid or some of the other

0:10:52big web services and not as fast as as self hosting and stuff and they don't

0:10:57allow cell hosting they become a weird thing where they you have to go through

0:11:01their CDN but then it redirects to the font files on your server with no cache

0:11:05headers so that your meeting with clients make two requests one of them is

0:11:09going back to your slow server and not to their CDN to actually get the big

0:11:13files you know the big like 300 kilobytes where the files and no reason

0:11:17they're really good I really like this one fight they have a very nice funds

0:11:19over there but I'm going to look at other options now because they just it

0:11:24was just too slowly if you look at the time with the network timeline in the

0:11:26women's better time to taking during this page it's just insane and you could

0:11:32argue and I've heard many counter arguments for why i shouldn't worry

0:11:35about the speed of my website loading most of it down to either that I should

0:11:39like a secluded and then either pop it in or save it for the next load and put

0:11:44it on the next load both of those I think so because they are good options

0:11:50just for you know user experience was like why why would I want to do either

0:11:54of this you know the other answer was why do you care it's just a blog it

0:11:58doesn't matter how quickly it looks and that's BS because not only does it

0:12:02matter quite a bit how quickly pages load to whether people complete the

0:12:06loads but we're talking about loading a 300 kilobyte resource that requires two

0:12:11requests to be made before the patient even begin to look this is like in the

0:12:16head on mobile and when you have bad connections and everything that does

0:12:20matter that really does add up to a significant delay we're loading a page

0:12:24when you better big image because I can load after the pictures when you're on a

0:12:29mobile connection that really matters and it turns out that my traffic like

0:12:32everyone's traffic is mostly mobile these days and you have to think about

0:12:35that when you're a blogger or any kind of content site especially a tech

0:12:39content site read by tech people you're gonna see a large portion of traffic on

0:12:44mobile many of those people will be on cellular at the time they're loading it

0:12:48yes it would be nice if I didn't have you know

0:12:53refunds on my site but also be nice if my page loads very quickly so I think I

0:12:58have to balance those things I think maybe doing typed it might be a little

0:13:03bit better because it's just a faster web host may be doing self hosting would

0:13:08be a little bit faster because then you know it could become the connections

0:13:11little bit better than going off to a different host so we'll see I'm gonna

0:13:15believe what led you to do all this because no disrespect intended it seemed

0:13:20to me that you've kind of another abandoned but avoided writing posts for

0:13:27a while now I mean you'll you'll read your post to this show to under the

0:13:31radar but I haven't seen a whole lot of real writing from you in a while outside

0:13:37of you know when you had headphones or podcast Mike so what have you so what

0:13:39what inspired you to just start paying attention again I was inspired by being

0:13:45forced by Dropbox right right right basically I use a Dropbox BlogEngine

0:13:50never hurt nobody else could you please don't use it it it's it's terrible but I

0:13:55like it's good for me and the they they ended support for the version that was

0:14:01probably ancient the the Linux class

0:14:03that I was using for Dropbox on my ancient server running its ancient

0:14:07distribution of CentOS I think 5.5 or something so it was running an old stack

0:14:12an old version of their thing and I couldn't update it without upgrading

0:14:16some pretty big things like lives see and hear what he was basically saying on

0:14:21the internet never agree Lipsy on a Linux system if you can help it it's

0:14:26kind of a problem so I migrated to my whole blog to a new server also I I love

0:14:33Linux

0:14:33every Linux is basically like yeah rock-solid runs forever it's great but

0:14:38you want to upgrade it forget it please don't do this you really shouldn't do

0:14:42this you should never have great a Linux server but you know like never ever the

0:14:45distribution that they all say that like don't do that the solution to upgrading

0:14:49a Linux server is to abandon it and make a new one so that is what I did it so I

0:14:55was already like in their mucking around with the guts of it and setting up

0:14:59everything new and clean so I figured while I'm here let me also take this

0:15:04opportunity to modernize its so so I switched over to https and everything is

0:15:10now a CBS I dropped the WWW prefix you know all this fun stuff to modernize the

0:15:15side so part of that was let me I'm thinking about dropping a while it was

0:15:20actually about to get bills annually and it was about to bill me again hundred

0:15:24and sixty bucks only know maybe this is a good time to reconsider whether I want

0:15:28to keep using those funds let me try without it all that being said you are

0:15:31right I have barely written anything on the site of any consequence in a long

0:15:36time in months really and you know part of that was the last time I wrote stuff

0:15:40about at pricing it went very very badly and support of that was just need to

0:15:45rethink what audience I want to be writing to who's reading this do they

0:15:50really care do i do I want to be taking the risk of some of the things that I

0:15:55want to say to risk getting all the feedback from it and and being a man

0:16:00named right over the internet and horrible ways

0:16:03and starting about the drama and most of time just not worth it to me honestly

0:16:07anymore it's just not worth it I do want to keep writing but I'm I'm kind of

0:16:11going through a process where I want to try to figure out what I want to keep

0:16:16writing on the site because having the kind of potentially controversial tech

0:16:21topic discussions I think are better here where it's more human and people

0:16:24know me better and and you guys are here to rebut and to provide your own answers

0:16:30to things that I'm just not going off the deep end going crazy and getting all

0:16:34the trash I said something horrible without any kind of a bottle and the

0:16:38developer help things I I would rather do that on under the radar

0:16:44the other podcast they do with an affidavit Smith anything doesn't fit

0:16:48there anything that is kind of helpful to developer economics i think im just

0:16:54not gonna reveal any more because it has proven not to be worth it and then I

0:16:57have a lot to talk about I can blog about headphones and coffee and

0:17:00microphone justify that I can I can talk about lots of other things without being

0:17:05at that controversial or at least controversial in those ways that I've

0:17:08been kinda burned by so I feel a figure out over time I i I have noticed that

0:17:13not writing anything of substance in awhile is not making me feel good and is

0:17:20it actually making me a worse podcaster because as you can tell by this long

0:17:25rambling thing I kinda not only do I have liked more to say that like builds

0:17:30up in me all week and I like spewed I don't want a podcast and that's not good

0:17:33but also made my argument on the podcast are getting less coherent and less

0:17:38organized I i think that is because parsing 11 sick for like three weeks and

0:17:42partially because I think not writing is actually making three arguments in my

0:17:48head

0:17:49more weakly structured or more weakly organized it that makes sense that's

0:17:53right and don't publish it that's one way to do it or like a private email

0:17:58list or something like that that might be a good idea I'm not sure if it would

0:18:03be as good if you if you only surround yourself with people that agree with you

0:18:09more that want to to read it or if you're a poor writing for something that

0:18:13is such a small audience possibly have just you then I think you you lose the

0:18:18ability for people to improve you in in constructive ways and I think that would

0:18:24be unfortunate and when it would not give the writing as much value to me as

0:18:30as it would for you know those in public

0:18:34gonna give you a constructive improvement but I just realized my just

0:18:36because I'm just check reload I didn't see the name of the CSS if you really

0:18:40think it's now just chrome nevermind

0:18:43gonna complain that the new fund your chosen apparently didn't have a good

0:18:47emoji

0:18:48for the cloud icon the EU's next the streaming heading in the overcast to

0:18:52post but it's it's a black lab looks like a little tired but it's just

0:18:59nevermind carry on I don't understand why everyone loves cum so damn much

0:19:04close to sealing successfully so they've got that going for ya well see I turned

0:19:10off her name but she may have found somebody had found a way to do a

0:19:16defaults write for Tweetbot which I know is not use John but to do it defaults

0:19:20write to just direct to the actual URL instead of a Chico linked quarter were

0:19:26calling them and then that that made everything a million percent better and

0:19:31all of the issues that so many people seem to have a safari I genuinely like

0:19:35never run into them but you haven't got the one the new one in capitan where the

0:19:40the entirety of the window chrome becomes inert like you can't put the

0:19:44insertion point the address bar you can't click the window with just you

0:19:47can't look in the toolbar buttons you can't use the scroll bar got that one

0:19:51twice a week now no but remember that I have a scene amount of taps open I don't

0:19:55have 3,000 windows and 4,500 taps to browser windows open then

0:20:01and one of them is dead again I'm sure that these people who say that so far is

0:20:05a piece of crap I'm sure they're saying that for a reason but darned if I know

0:20:09why because my experience does not match with that I just I don't think that

0:20:13chrome is bad outside of the piss-poor

0:20:17just awful emoji support I don't think from is bad I don't I don't feel like it

0:20:22brings anything to the table that I care about and again I'm sure that you know

0:20:26they're all sorts of chrome like die hard chrome plans that are firing up

0:20:30email clients right now they're not the reason gmail is exactly probably using

0:20:35Gmail to rate me some sort of nasty gram but the things that chrome did better

0:20:38than than Safari and maybe that's true I'm not saying that they're wrong but in

0:20:41my personal experience I have never thought to myself you know what I really

0:20:45wish I could use Chrome for this because it does whatever better though I still

0:20:49run both are you so far as my primary I used to use from Nice to like use one at

0:20:54work one home so I got it would be up to them and now you are now for a while the

0:20:59primary chrome is my is my flash isolation area but anyway but chrome is

0:21:07it has always been very consistent for me with performance with reliability

0:21:12everything safari is all over the map with every new version so you know

0:21:16sometimes so far is great for a while sometimes Safari gets slower buggy or

0:21:20inconsistent or crashes or something for a few releases and in my experience

0:21:24chrome is just way more consistent also I think from has the better web dev

0:21:29tools most of the time so we'll see anyway we will hear from all the current

0:21:33people and what they think because I believe has more market-driven safari in

0:21:39pretty much every bite by anyone's metric and pretty sure it's it's

0:21:43substantially had a safari now so that the world has voted just like they used

0:21:48to vote for Compaq Dell computers that those are the best side so not speaking

0:21:55of things that are awesome why don't you make us happier after mentioning compaq

0:21:58in Delhi and tell us about something that is awesome

0:22:02there's a company out there that I have just talked about for the first part the

0:22:06part that's quite a bit and it's called line owed or Linode I don't even know so

0:22:10it's Linux cleanness Leinart I don't know but I say line

0:22:14node it's a webhost it's been around for a long time now and I have been honored

0:22:19customer myself for quite a long time I think he like six or eight years at

0:22:25least I've been there awhile I have done a lot of web hosts in in my time I've

0:22:29used a lot of them big and small from from you know as tough as big as hosting

0:22:34the first four years of tumblr at a at a huge host all the way down to hosting

0:22:39little private sites for myself and my friends everything over the years I've

0:22:43light line owed so much and they've gotten so good that I now hosts

0:22:48everything that line and I think I have one dedicated server left somewhere else

0:22:52for some artillery attacks only because I haven't gotten around to it yet it is

0:22:56such a great host and I you know they can't pay me to say this I'm saying this

0:23:00honestly as me I was hoping to get them as a sponsor because I've used them

0:23:04forever and I really do genuinely liked them and recommend them in my opinion it

0:23:10is the best value in web hosting today

0:23:13major upgrade but two years ago now are year ago when they put everything testes

0:23:18so it's all fastball St modern CPUs more recently they switched their hypervisor

0:23:23software from Zen to KVM the latest units benchmarks show that it is 300%

0:23:27performance increase between 22 KVM from then so I've done it all mine has been

0:23:33fine rock-solid everything's great you want to host things that why not believe

0:23:37me like it if you want real web hosting you want access to your own service you

0:23:42can configure however you want and you can you can install your own software on

0:23:46your own stuff you want to do that line it really is an incredible value for

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0:24:03lead to a $10 credit using promo code accidental podcast 10 so delighted I

0:24:08concise ATP get a $10 credit by using promo code accidental podcast 10 thank

0:24:13you very much to line up for sponsoring our show we have some news in the Apple

0:24:19executive lineup John D on account of give us a synopsis as to what's going on

0:24:23there was so long ago I can barely remember

0:24:25that was like right after recording this week's podcast like 11 news they're

0:24:30gonna dump at the end of the year the news was a fairly tame a reorg where

0:24:37sheler got control of the App Store stuff the absence of that used to be

0:24:41under attack you and if you still has like the whole media thing and music and

0:24:47all that stuff I think and they named what's-his-name Jeff Williams COO but he

0:24:53was already doing that and not a lot of exciting things they're but the thing

0:24:56that developers got excited about is the moving of any apps to responsibilities

0:25:00from one person to another and I guess people are getting hopeful just because

0:25:04hey it's a change and things are bad now the change has the potential to be good

0:25:09but those shelter has been in charge of a preview of Marco can correct me if I'm

0:25:13wrong for a while now right it's not just that's not new I believe since the

0:25:17start he's just getting the rest of the App Store and so a preview is one of the

0:25:21things that developers complain about a lot and Phil show her always had that so

0:25:25he's not exactly you're sort of savior of the App Store if you're if you have

0:25:30been disgruntled about a preview stuff that's the shelter and now he's got the

0:25:33rest of the hope is I guess that those shows organization like will improve the

0:25:39tech parts of it better like make iTunes Connect nice area and let developers use

0:25:44test flight and fix the Mac App Store sandboxing people so people can actually

0:25:49test their absence and box like that's the hope that any cues seem to not be

0:25:54able to roll out be the features like the software and server-based features

0:25:59for developers as quickly as developers wanted and it somehow Phil show would do

0:26:03better I have no idea if that is the case but I have to admit I'm also

0:26:08slightly optimistic just because things have been kind of not grade limping

0:26:14along for a long time and I like to see some kind of shake up even if it's like

0:26:17the world's most minor shake-up so yeah I mean just to fill out what you said

0:26:22basically the the developer ecosystem of Apple has always been under these three

0:26:27different divisions in the company there the engineering division undercut the

0:26:31turkey

0:26:32they may call the API's new OS isn't everything and then there's the

0:26:36developer relations division which is under Phil Schiller division under

0:26:41marketing and that that does the BBC that the you know the developer program

0:26:47and then and also a preview and the app review policies and then there's the

0:26:52store division and the editorial part of it that has been under attack you in the

0:26:56Services Division and that aside like what happened to be featured and how the

0:27:01store works and and running the store back and everything I would imagine also

0:27:05involved the store apps themselves so that it to hell is under three different

0:27:11divisions you could you could always tell the pastor there has been some kind

0:27:16of like miscommunication or fortune in the past so for example you would have

0:27:20an app that was featured by the App Store editorial team under a DQ because

0:27:25it was doing some new cool thing and then the app review team would call up

0:27:30and say sorry we're not gonna allows you to take this app down while it's being

0:27:34featured by the department in in the store and so you have these kind of

0:27:39weird miscommunications or disagreement between the divisions that have caused

0:27:42some friction or sumn sumn you know clumsiness and passed the engineering

0:27:47site is still under factory still totally separate obviously that makes

0:27:50that makes sense but the developer relations and the App Store is now

0:27:55together under Phil and interestingly as as a friend Ben Thompson pointed out on

0:27:59trajectory think this was one of the Private Members Only things but if not

0:28:03linked to it a lot of people are paying attention to the fact that actually that

0:28:06Phil Schiller has actually lost a big chunk of his responsibilities in this is

0:28:10well what corporate people called marcom marketing communications which I think

0:28:15that's that's like advertising stuff right beats me I know nothing about that

0:28:19stuff anyway that used to be under Phil and now they announced the new hire

0:28:24whose name I forgot I'm sorry the new hire is now taking over marketing

0:28:28communications from Phil and reporting directly to Tim Cook so this this stuff

0:28:34has been removed from Phils played peers and then phil has gained the app stores

0:28:39and at logically I don't know how this works

0:28:42you know internally that there's obviously a lot of

0:28:45implementation details here that we don't know like the big 12 me is how do

0:28:50you separate the app stores from the back end that they run on which is all

0:28:56presumably still under eight accused of it there's some weirdness there I would

0:29:01imagine but high level it it certainly appears that phil has lost his

0:29:06responsibilities of running the like advertising part of it and Dean the

0:29:11responsibility of running the app stores whatever that includes because he

0:29:15already ran developer relations and a preview that makes some sense so John

0:29:20I'm with you in that I am optimistic about this I don't think we're going to

0:29:24see meaningful change the App Store Policies any kind of rule that you can't

0:29:29do now and you kind of controversy over a preview I wouldn't even expect

0:29:34improvements to a preview on the Mac App Store having this occasionally very long

0:29:38review times I hope they fix that that's that's just messed up that's been it's

0:29:44embarrassing and that's obviously not the way it's supposed to work to have

0:29:47your absentee review for a month but you know when it is working like an iOS when

0:29:51you typically get in 07 write a review time I don't think we're gonna see any

0:29:56major changes to that system the system of a preview as we know it today that is

0:30:02here to stay for a long time because the person who is at the very top of the

0:30:06organization just took control the entire App Store

0:30:09obviously they're not looking to change that but the things that I think that

0:30:13I'm optimistic about here are the first of all a great read on Phil but the more

0:30:21that I that I know of him or the more that I hear him talk about hear stories

0:30:27about him the more I think I think I I like him like I think he has

0:30:33sensibilities that one up with mine more so than most of the other high up Apple

0:30:39executives and and more so that are in the interest of the old apple and I come

0:30:45to some good and some bad that's why a preview of things going anywhere because

0:30:48that you know it's like the old school Apple but overall this is a good thing

0:30:52if for nothing else because as you said John it is a sign of of a of a pretty

0:30:57big cheese and if you look at like things that stagnant or have problems in

0:31:03Apple many of them I would say possibly even most of them fall under the service

0:31:09division that is clearly a place where they have had a lot of problems in the

0:31:13past and I i we keep hearing they're doing that they're getting better

0:31:16some of things are doing are better like the new cloud kids stuff the new photo

0:31:19sync some of that stuff is really good and so I think they are getting better

0:31:23and we're hearing stories about them like running Linux servers now and and

0:31:27doing this apache besos thing and and now we're probably works with Linux is

0:31:31going and we're seeing lots of lots of like rumblings that the department is

0:31:36getting better and some evidence that is coming out to the consumers but even if

0:31:40they start doing really well they also seem dramatically overloaded and and

0:31:45they seem like they have a lot of trouble making progress on multiple

0:31:50fronts the App Store has basically done nothing like it in the App Store has

0:31:55gone almost nowhere has improved very little has changed very little since its

0:32:01inception in 2008

0:32:02you know it if you look at the absurd today for the ouster in 2008 it really

0:32:06is not that different

0:32:08yes some things are better but not what not what you'd expect for was a seven

0:32:13years seven and a half years if not what you'd expect for them in time so to move

0:32:18a big chunk of of this division out of it under new leadership in a different

0:32:24vision of the company to have that bTW absurd the thing that that control so

0:32:27much of my living many people living in the modern computing landscape so much

0:32:33as a dependent on the App Store and the way its run its policies to move that to

0:32:38her executive is a big change I think you know it seems like it would be a big

0:32:42change I don't think there's like some paper thing so I I hope that this is a

0:32:47sign that they are finally going to change the after they're finally going

0:32:51to improve it to start making meaningful changes and again I don't think it's

0:32:56gonna be in regards to a preview I think we're stuck with that for a long time

0:32:59but it could be in regards to many things that could use improvement things

0:33:02like you know if you want upgrade pricing or trials that's the kind of

0:33:05place you know this is the kind of change that would happen if you want

0:33:08improvements to the max

0:33:09App Store or better how I mean if you look at the health of the App Store's

0:33:13pretty much all the mix up the iPhone 18 help like they're not in great shape the

0:33:18iPhone one is doing ok so beautiful to massive volume but it could still use

0:33:23some improvement all of that now is kind of we have we have a renewed hope the

0:33:29App Store might finally get better because they use did this seemingly

0:33:34substantial sounding move I have high hopes for that especially to be under

0:33:39Phil he cares a lot about the Mac about the product quality and they wouldn't

0:33:44have moved this for no reason there is nothing pressuring them to move it there

0:33:48was no like there is no reason they had to do this so they clearly want to do

0:33:53this and it has to have been this this move has to happen for a good reason

0:33:57there is some kind of pressure because when I it's hard so it's hard to tell

0:34:01why things are happening inside applicants obviously the press release

0:34:04isn't gonna tell you and I can do is look at the experience I've had in a

0:34:07company that I work for when they have shuttle people around and the only real

0:34:11underlying thing other than stuff you don't know about the information you

0:34:15don't have like roanoke like maybe someone you know is going to retire soon

0:34:19or you know maybe someone has expressed an interest in doing something different

0:34:23right but usually if some top executive like the CEO whatever is not getting

0:34:31something they want out of some subdivision of the company they've let

0:34:36that slide for a while but eventually it's like I've been I wanted acts for

0:34:40two years now and this person hasn't delivered it it's time to give another

0:34:45person who can sometimes there's the you know give the really hard job to this

0:34:49one executive who's great for you know doing tackling tough problems and that

0:34:53person bounces around like the problem solver the fixer the do you know like

0:34:58the call so horrendous acts Casey out some of your reference you don't get it

0:35:02is definitely affects their anyway it could be that but I get away it's like

0:35:08someone is not getting what they want out of insert and it could be a summer

0:35:12not getting what they want added marcom and that's why a new guys to come in to

0:35:16take it is someone not getting what they want the app so we don't know because it

0:35:20could be say it's a the marking something stag

0:35:22you know Apple's marketing messages in evolving and for a while we wanted to

0:35:27change until doesn't seem capable to get out of the rut so what we're gonna do is

0:35:30we're going to bring in someone new

0:35:31they're gonna take over the marketing communication but since no such an

0:35:35important person you can't take away that from him without giving them

0:35:38something else and I need a lot of salsa given over to him alright that's one

0:35:41plausible scenario another one is the one the world languages like ed four

0:35:45years we wanted access of you know this outdoor stuff has been happening so

0:35:50we're gonna take that away from you and give it to somebody who is more we think

0:35:55is going to do a better job I don't know the person is gonna do a better job of

0:35:59that be like there's just so much we don't know but the bottom line is these

0:36:02things don't happen without a substantial reason because top

0:36:06executives hate having responsibility taken away from them it's not a demotion

0:36:09but it's seen as like you know so don't show her is not really you know he got a

0:36:14bunch of response was taken away but he took the mantle something else I feel

0:36:17like this is you know in the political org chart of Apple's little bit of a

0:36:22downer and EQ and a little bit of an upper sideways heroin phyllis was the

0:36:27way it feels to me from the outside and when I think about is you know there is

0:36:32corrected a little bit little bit down aromatic you what what is it that top

0:36:37executives might have wanted that they weren't getting out of it and that's

0:36:41makes me think of the success Heights problem things we're in the beginning

0:36:45but he had the iTunes Store and the App Store and everything was going

0:36:49gangbusters hey the App Store is super popular everybody loves apps they're

0:36:52installing stuff in like every year every quarter he you know at every

0:36:57meeting and he could be a look at these crazy numbers look how many apps we have

0:37:00look how many people had ellen's up look how many developers are signed up like

0:37:03every metric that he could possibly every charge to put up every number

0:37:07Heathrow on someone's face was like I'm in charge of the App Store in the App

0:37:10Store is awesome but as you point out Marco at a certain point like those

0:37:15numbers that the day level off it's like yeah yeah we heard lots about someone

0:37:18ever bought this hearing about you know developers don't like this or it's hard

0:37:23to search in the store or just been but this company to redo the store but it

0:37:26kinda looks the same and people don't think it's that much better and just

0:37:29just from regulated like you don't have to be plugged into this community just

0:37:33Tim Cook to go to the App Store his own phone to try to find something and

0:37:36notice that their problems and bring that up two years ago they did you in a

0:37:40bit like oh you know we'll take care of that no work on this organized into

0:37:43seven points like it doesn't you know again things that things that someone

0:37:47who's not plugged into the Daubert you can adjust Tim Cook on his own phone

0:37:50keep using the app store your bike you know doesn't seem like regardless of

0:37:56whether I think this is good or not your number the greater reliability is great

0:37:59you make a lot of money or whatever it just doesn't seem like it has gotten

0:38:02that much better over the past several years so maybe it's time for a change

0:38:06now this could all be delusions based on our perspective as outsiders and people

0:38:11who know a lot of developers it could be something entirely unrelated but to me

0:38:15that's a plausible scenario that that that that he was Coast thing but that

0:38:18like when when you're on the fun part of the hockey stick it can hide a lot of

0:38:23stuff in a certain point lol off or that stuff becomes old hat and you need like

0:38:28what have you done for me lately you know what what have you done to the App

0:38:31Store lately cuz the complaints are there and the feedback is there and you

0:38:36know people leaving the Mac App Store and longer view times I don't have the

0:38:39time involved that into you know like features and iTunes Connect and just it

0:38:43just seems like at this point no matter how distant be removed from the

0:38:47developer community can do it market just said and say look at what the

0:38:49upstart was like five years ago and look at what it's like now and think is that

0:38:52five years with the progress in the App Store and you just have to say no and so

0:38:56that's why that feels like the strongest reason why there might be a shake-up

0:39:00related to the App Store regardless of what you think it was just that it's

0:39:04just not progressing in advancing the way you would hope it would also like

0:39:09you know i i think as as I mentioned last episode I think you can look at

0:39:12their their recent product launches the watch the Apple TV and the iPad pro in

0:39:18all three of those cases you can very clearly point to the at ecosystem and

0:39:24the app stores themselves as holding these products back significantly the

0:39:29the TV app store is frankly embarrassing

0:39:32there's so little in it it is so hard to use it is so hard to find anything

0:39:37there's no like there's no like Public Links for TV apps you can't if you hear

0:39:43about like like that land to came out this past week or something I want to

0:39:48get it on my TV or these find out if it was available on Apple TV I could not

0:39:52find information out anywhere except going over walking over the TV and

0:39:57typing poorly planned to into that horrible text entry field and finding

0:40:03nothing and I wasn't sure like is just bad right now or is it really not here

0:40:08and it turns out of the TV I hadn't been out for the TV I would have no computer

0:40:14or my phone or any other device to have clicked by this inhabitable my TV there

0:40:20there are simple things like this where the stores were not helping

0:40:24it's it's really hinder things not to mention the way bigger challenge of like

0:40:29developer economics and and making it worth developing for these platforms

0:40:33which is a whole separate discussion but is related to this who's in charge of

0:40:38that site who agree I just to give you an example upgrade pricing like

0:40:41developers and wanted to go to prison for a long time

0:40:43who of all the people

0:40:46top execs me know and Apple are the people saying no to upgrade pricing and

0:40:50are they still in charge of that decision

0:40:52well I think it was kind of a combo mean that kind of thing before would have

0:40:56been like 80 if you look at the app review rules there are many interviewed

0:41:01rules related to pricing and what you what you're allowed to do with your

0:41:04pricing and what you're not what has to be free what has to do not break or not

0:41:08have limits on her ever so a lot of that isn't a preview but that any anything

0:41:13related to things like a great president would have had to be implemented by any

0:41:17Q's division so that kind of thing

0:41:21spanned both divisions and I think that's one of the reasons why you seen

0:41:24so little change it

0:41:26of that type because it wouldn't it would have involved these two divisions

0:41:30working together which was probably problematic or at least of these

0:41:35burdensome be implemented bundles which is like seems like so much more

0:41:39complicated the upgrade price I mean they did then that purchase and they did

0:41:42bundles to features that are fair

0:41:44complicated so it seems like when whoever is the head of the snake want to

0:41:49change to the economics we want to make bundles possible we want them to make

0:41:53in-app purchase possible that's going to involve your team ready cuz you gotta

0:41:56handle the bundle and the pricing whenever an in-app purchase gonna be

0:41:59like a backend that we're going to talk to whatever but it just seemed to me

0:42:02that those efforts weren't coming from any cute and I'm just wondering who you

0:42:07know I upgrade pricing and it happened in terms of the economic issues somebody

0:42:11is setting the policy if you like or dislike Apple still if somebody high

0:42:16enough up said you know what we're going to do operate price it would happen like

0:42:20regardless of who's in charge of implementing it made you a peek ready

0:42:22and maybe like the interface for an iTunes Connect would be bad baby buggy

0:42:26to begin with it may be difficult for developers to test all the things you

0:42:29can blame on any cure whatever but like I just always wonder where the decision

0:42:33is made like to have a meeting where they should be revisited upgrade price

0:42:36does it never come up like today decide once back when Steve Jobs is still alive

0:42:40that upgrade pricing is good for developers of bed for users in this

0:42:43endeavor revisit that decision despite you know but how the iPad pro may change

0:42:48that equation or whatever you have to also look at how important is this thing

0:42:54is very important to us how important is this relative to the division it's in

0:42:59the company it's in you know and and so relative to all Apple as a whole I don't

0:43:05know how important they consider things like the App Store and developer

0:43:07happiness with the App Store everything else I don't know senator sherry faxes

0:43:11like why aren't more people buying iPad pros why are people leaving the Mac App

0:43:15Store why are all these awesome apps that we know it's possible to build

0:43:18appearing on the iPad prob wise Adobe not making a full version of Photoshop

0:43:22for the upper leg all sorts of questions about why aren't people taking advantage

0:43:26or + 21 is that we haven't sold any hardware but it's kind of a chicken egg

0:43:31situation other answers what is it about specialist advice should I pro like what

0:43:36is it about our platforms that you know we all know the answers that lends

0:43:39itself to applications and a bunch of people right and support what they can

0:43:43still make money and then abandoned like there is no sort of ten-year twenty-year

0:43:47application because you can't get any more revenue from them unless it's like

0:43:50it and in-app purchase type of thing where you're constantly you know people

0:43:53for

0:43:54currency or whatever you know like other than those model like why why is there

0:43:58no model for sort of professional applications that people buy on a

0:44:01regular basis I guess they do subscriptions but then you know we all

0:44:05know what the the the App Store policies are there that didn't make it difficult

0:44:08to have a sustainable high-end software package that continually its upgraded on

0:44:15Apple's iOS platform that is because all the tools people are used to either

0:44:18don't exist or have a 30 percent taxes just mostly untenable like Adobe loves

0:44:22their subscription revenue aw would love subscription revenue a lot less

0:44:25available to 30% and I mean there have been so mean I there have been so many

0:44:31unimplemented or lost or cancelled ideas and services and products because i

0:44:38three percent I mean that is not a small number that that is a number that that

0:44:42makes or breaks people's business models and a lot of cases going back to ABQ for

0:44:46his division like if you look at what else that division had to do you know

0:44:51while the actor was under them that's all of iCloud that's all of Siri that is

0:44:56all of these stores at other stores in music stores that Apple music streaming

0:45:00television planet still hasn't happened right and it's and it's it's all the

0:45:03content deals its negotiating and dealing with his content companies also

0:45:07and Apple has not done well in that area recently and and I don't know if this is

0:45:12just you know you doing his job badly I probably not as far more complicated

0:45:16than that now it's not like people have apples number now they have the first

0:45:19home is easy like it like it and people learn that lesson from iTunes and was

0:45:22like no intention of giving our business Amazon to check your power Apple so now

0:45:26it's it's much harder to go because you know Apple doesn't want to come out with

0:45:31a plan as far as I know nobody has a plan that is a convincing replacement

0:45:36for quarter for real television at this point Apple wants to be the first so

0:45:40they're gonna have to be the ones to explain to the big networks and

0:45:43everybody just trust us this this fungus empower you and you won't lose your

0:45:49shirt on this deal but you have to bring the price down because no one's going to

0:45:52buy it if it costs as much as cable but isn't as good as cable which it won't

0:45:54because they're stupid Apple TV box isn't that good

0:45:57and it's like this thing we're like the same last week about how Apple doesn't

0:46:02really seem to know how to be in a negotiating position of not just

0:46:08absolute power I think that you know I was less because talking about

0:46:11developers but this week you know i think is very equally to the content

0:46:16problems

0:46:17content deals only one willing to say here that in this negotiation between

0:46:22Apple and television networks I'm willing to put money that the television

0:46:26people are being more reasonable than Apple like they've been every time like

0:46:31les Moonves makes it a public statement I feel like I don't envy an enviable

0:46:35trying to negotiate with these guys because I think that they don't get it

0:46:40Apple is trying to explain to them so I really like it's hard to fault Apple

0:46:46these things maybe they are being a little bit stubborn but but she's there

0:46:49they're trying to pull in industries head out of the sand and it's it's slow

0:46:52going and that's fair but that industry i think is still doing really well

0:46:57without Apple and the dynamic is different one of the reasons Apple was

0:47:01able to have so much power in music and get some great deals for music is

0:47:05because the music industry was was kind of naive and also pretty desperate and

0:47:10in this case today that's not the case anymore especially with with TV industry

0:47:14like the TV industry still doing very well and still making tons of money

0:47:18a palatable should have Netflix but wasn't like a Netflix got their first

0:47:21right so and then now everyone it's it's it's a bigger mess like your music music

0:47:28was more desperate music with smaller and more tractable and nobody knew what

0:47:32was going to happen and apple just steamrolled everybody and everyone saw

0:47:35what happened to everybody who who basically lost power nap on that was

0:47:40like no we're not doing that against every other industry from e-books

0:47:42television to movies everything was like comes calling

0:47:47look at the music industry as a cautionary tale and negotiate

0:47:50differently and find another way

0:47:52we're going to make your own streaming apps and we're gonna make deals with

0:47:55Netflix and you know who knows what we're gonna do but it's more complicated

0:47:59world like it and I do wonder like I don't know anything about it and I see

0:48:05the guys they talk a big fan of button his shirt yeah but I was wondering like

0:48:11what his core skills that is like he's not an engineer at a tax programmer

0:48:15anything we've always heard that he that he is like the negotiator said that he

0:48:20he is really good at these content deals apparently or I also have also heard

0:48:24that he has a reputation of like being the fixer getting things done but I

0:48:29honestly I don't see it not an iTunes Connect know well as is the least

0:48:36developed problems I mean I think all things associated with like test flight

0:48:40integration and you know the process visibility into the app review process

0:48:44and the ability to contact the Human about your thing and yeah yeah but like

0:48:49yeah I mean the problems of the App Store go way beyond like the iTunes

0:48:53Connect a web interface or so far beyond that and then that's good enough for

0:48:59what it does you know it's not great but it's fine it's like it's like the admin

0:49:03panel that ever that we all make for our websites like no one's admin panel is

0:49:07nice

0:49:08iTunes Connect is not nice but I don't need Phil Schiller to fix iTunes Connect

0:49:12you know we we need to fix a lot bigger problem than that

0:49:16NEQ got a bachelor's in computer science and economics from deep yeah I don't

0:49:22like I don't know I can get a read it was obviously at this level of doing

0:49:27anything you're telling people who are telling people are telling people to do

0:49:30things with just like its management just I'm trying to think like things

0:49:36that you do things that were put in a DQ this substantial improvements or they've

0:49:41gotten better or that you know like he's got a lot of sort of stars on as you

0:49:46know whatever you call them right

0:49:48like iTunes and the stores and the App Store especially in the initial part of

0:49:53lots of big important good numbers he put up there have been a lot of big

0:49:56bonuses and all of those years and you know everything looked good

0:50:00but I just lately not that it doesn't look good anymore still looks good but

0:50:05said it's like what have you done for me lately what what improvements you made

0:50:09to the system uses a system people gonna put out they can put them on stories we

0:50:12have multiple stores we have other things like but it just doesn't seem

0:50:15like it's progressing like we've all been hearing the exact same complaints

0:50:19from the developer side of it for so many years and so I said that aside

0:50:22because a lot of people who cares but developers I don't care by developers

0:50:26Apple should I care about users you know uses you come back above developers I

0:50:29think that's right users do come about developer censured because there are

0:50:32many many more of them but it's it's related because like I was using you

0:50:37won't be like I don't care what developers think about pressure on the

0:50:40App Store and at the same time you had perot why isn't there more software

0:50:43update it for it

0:50:44wisest thing that I downloaded the throw afternoons ever gonna support that

0:50:48doesn't work but but like I'm saying set that aside for a second just totally

0:50:53believe in an important to set it aside I really do feel that from the user's

0:50:58perspective the App Store as experienced by the user just talked about a mark on

0:51:02the App Store as experienced by users of Apple TV or you know just as a user

0:51:07going to the App Store finding stuff feeling feeling good and comment about

0:51:12the things that you find there I i think that is has not progressed and the sort

0:51:17of cess pit stop it

0:51:18have gotten deeper and more dangerous the suspects of free-to-play you know

0:51:22all those mechanics and taking money from people and the cesspit of at this

0:51:26point sort of single use unsupported applications that are clogging up your

0:51:32search results and make it much harder to find the one or two good at some

0:51:37things like they always brag about how many apps they have once that number got

0:51:41like six or seven digits it stops being a plus or minus I don't want ten million

0:51:47applications I don't want one million applications even 200,000 applications

0:51:50like seriously you know those all can't be winners

0:51:55there's a lot of so should reject more things from the store whatever but like

0:52:00at a certain point the number of applications you have becomes a problem

0:52:04to solve nothing to brag about their problems are solved is you know Amazon

0:52:09has probably millions of products that I find it easier to find decent things on

0:52:14Amazon you know because they review system is better than Apple's because

0:52:17they're people like this like that as a little bit better you know like all the

0:52:20parts that have to do with dealing with lots of products and presenting it to

0:52:24users that part of the experience of being a user of Apple products has you

0:52:29know again because we think it just hasn't gotten a much better in years and

0:52:32years and years and so that that is an area I feel like no matter what you

0:52:36think about you have to say we are not progressing fast enough I turn off

0:52:40competitors are nipping at their heels or whatever but if you can make that

0:52:43experience better as the show but the answer to begin with you can make that

0:52:45experience better that can do really big things for your bottom line and your

0:52:49customers that interview developer satisfaction

0:52:52letting developers be able to respond to reviews or contact people anonymously r

0:52:56like it just does it that's low hanging fruit is not even that big a deal and

0:53:01yeah well that's you know we can't do that just came out it's been years like

0:53:05one give you one of those a year for five years and it would make a much

0:53:09bigger and I know they did things that is mentioned the bundles and in-app

0:53:12purchases arguably are an important thing in subscriptions and opening the

0:53:15stuff that used to be used and only up like they have done some things but it

0:53:20just it just feels like stagnation and i dont i dont feel good doing it after

0:53:25these days I know exactly where I'm going and if I can't get a direct link

0:53:29like on the TV I don't know what I would do we respond to this week by fracture

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0:54:51you very much to fracture for sponsoring our show once again so also in the last

0:54:55week 60 minutes and Charlie Rose did a not really an interview but a feature on

0:55:02Apple and they were afforded a little bit more access than most TV crews are

0:55:08afforded have you guys seen this no of course not I did but about football

0:55:15pushed it off the end of my TV episode was arrested on on CBS is there whatever

0:55:19never good as their terrible website to maybe watch market but I didn't see what

0:55:23I can do that I can go to their tireless if you stupid football pushes the show

0:55:28out and your TV doesn't correctly just because stupid football ran long not

0:55:32enough time for TiVo to get updated guide information then you can watch as

0:55:36much as you can you TiVo and then I just always assume I can go to the website of

0:55:40the television show on my stress it and then behold I could as long as I was

0:55:44willing to watch like seventeen of the same commercial before I could move the

0:55:48little play head up to the point where I left off so anything about football

0:55:52can take the speed I'm not gonna take this page is not based on their TV

0:55:56schedule isn't their TV schedule I feel like a football runs long it should

0:55:59switch to the football football overflow channel anyway I'm still so the feature

0:56:08I it is worth watching although I don't think any revelations came from it

0:56:14accepting apparently read it seemed to think that a MacBook as shown in the

0:56:18background 44 seconds with some new Mac which it was supposedly it wasn't it was

0:56:24like this is the best part of it let's assume that it was so what happens now

0:56:29like let's stipulate for the for the purpose of this conversation that there

0:56:33was a different MacBook in the background now what happens nothing

0:56:37happens it looks like it open to close it has a screen and a keyboard can you

0:56:43buy one do you know what's in it

0:56:45no point less do you know what they're doing like look I like is coming out in

0:56:51the spring / winter / summer / God knows when it's coming out soon become to the

0:56:56huge power savings the retina MacBook Pro design is gonna be about four years

0:57:01old but I'ma comes out there gonna take advantage of this kind of the power

0:57:04savings and they're going to make the stupid thing thinner and it's going to

0:57:08be fine I'm gonna complain about the keyboard in the battery life in the

0:57:10first extract that on buying one and they're going to be the same as we have

0:57:14now but thinner and cool looking at maybe in space crinkled or not or or or

0:57:19they can have amazing features that but not be visible on the screen looks like

0:57:22a laptop I just like you know like I will agree right now that that was a

0:57:30brand-new under these products in the background and now what happens that we

0:57:34just sit here and smile I gotta understand anyway john Kasay interrupted

0:57:37you yes so there wasn't that much that I thought was really remarkable about the

0:57:43about the piece but I thought we should note that we that while two-thirds of us

0:57:47have seen it the one thing that I thought was really interesting was Dan

0:57:50Riccio saying and I'm gonna put it in front of me even a tenth of a millimeter

0:57:56of thickness is sacred to us and this was with regard to the MacBook one but

0:58:01probably pretty telling about a whole set it to you about these sorts of

0:58:05things in general so that's the thing that's the thing that we've been

0:58:09lamenting for a while I don't know if you guys have any thoughts on that there

0:58:13are quote that stuck out to me was in there talking to johnnie I was getting

0:58:16into his his Jony ive mode where he is very passionate about things I think the

0:58:21question was something about like did you feel like that Apple could become

0:58:25complacent insular something like that

0:58:29his answer was basically like I like all the things they say these are answers

0:58:34that anyone who follows Apple's heard before

0:58:36just repeated contacts and it was the giant have answer from polio which

0:58:42averaged I believe that you like BS this is the same question is a million times

0:58:46like every you know any famous person has to and his answer to this one is but

0:58:51not really looking at what we like we're not satisfied with what we do like so

0:58:56we're not gonna be like oh just set of you know leaned back in just a phone it

0:59:00in or whatever and we're not comparing ourselves to what else is out there and

0:59:05other people's products we compare ourselves to is always this ideal this

0:59:09perfection that we have in our own minds over chasing chasing perfection our own

0:59:13internal

0:59:14you know intrinsic motivation the ideal that we have in our mind and that's what

0:59:18we're chasing and I believe that because it shows in their products that seemed

0:59:23to have that seem to be chasing some ideal that it has had their minds and

0:59:28don't involve certainly too many looks at what other people are doing which is

0:59:35fine but also maybe not too many looks at how people use these things in the

0:59:40real world you know like his answer makes sense but it hinges entirely on

0:59:45what is that ideal you're chasing in as articulated through many white

0:59:50background movies over

0:59:51years the idea that the journey I was always said that he's chasing has good

0:59:57and bad aspects of the Dubai is like a look obvious that has to seem like it's

1:00:01not designed it shouldn't you know it shouldn't be designed for designed sake

1:00:06but we could see in the products that he makes it he you know he favored a

1:00:11simplicity and symmetry and purity and beauty and it can be argued that those

1:00:15things and it can be argued that those things have a psychological effect on

1:00:20the user's our products that it benefits that bob line but there are practical

1:00:24considerations as well and the balance between chasing that ideal that that

1:00:30again may be beneficial the company but may not be better for the product and

1:00:35also doing things you kind of have to do whether it's more reliable stream really

1:00:41fun cables or you know or more grippy services for things or you know like

1:00:48nothing better than all the stuff I haven't seen a lot of interviews where

1:00:52that balance has been brought up a really pursued and I'm not expecting I

1:00:57can sixty Minutes interview you know basically it's going to be people you

1:01:00know if you follow up a lot is going to be people you've seen before being asked

1:01:03questions they've been asked two thousand times you've seen the BSA's

1:01:05questions about times and you know if there is going to be because you've

1:01:08heard them give the same answer thousand times and they they died at each one of

1:01:12them like labor practices parking money overseas popularity of products secrecy

1:01:19the new Apple Campus in this is nothing new there but it is interesting that

1:01:24they you know you got to come in the lab to the table draped with stuff you get

1:01:27to see are milling machine running and whatever you know you can peek at it in

1:01:31that way and it's interesting to see that people give the same answers and

1:01:34see if they change but what I always wanted to know what we all want is

1:01:38people who are on our listeners program is deeper questions like so I think

1:01:43group interview with shelter pursued this a little bit on the whole figure

1:01:47but he was talking about then maybe was also talking about battery life or maybe

1:01:50with developer license then they would you like to pursue to have follow-ups to

1:01:53dig a little bit like to bring up this feels like this is news to John yet he

1:01:57knows about the the balance between

1:01:59you know practical features I'm sure all the engineering people manufacturers

1:02:03telling them practically speaking you do this music now can we figure out a way

1:02:06to do this like that that's what I was talking about you know fractions of

1:02:10millimeters there is a tension between what can be done what is able to be

1:02:14manufactured one of the economical what is beautiful what is our economic is

1:02:19there something it's both beautiful and ergonomic and obvious and durable and

1:02:23stays beautiful for a long time like this this is that's what design is all

1:02:26about

1:02:27I would love to hear an in-depth discussion Jony ive just about those

1:02:31tradeoffs about how he figures out where that balance is not in vague terms of

1:02:34getting into specifics because i think is the most interesting thing about

1:02:37design and Jony ive had never talks about it maybe is never going to be good

1:02:42secrecy type thing he doesn't give you a cute window into his mind but if you

1:02:48retired and I can get him on the spot kathy has been the entire show just like

1:02:52trying to figure out how they did that bounced and what factors do we not

1:02:57understand that are involved in this and are there problems that we see that he

1:03:01doesn't and other problems that he knows are issues that we never see it take for

1:03:06granted and that would be a much more interesting interview then loads on 60

1:03:09minutes but then again it sixty minutes so I think my expectation for that were

1:03:15even lower than Star Wars or Star Wars that you people have been saying good

1:03:20things about it the people involved for good

1:03:22abrams you know George Lucas wasn't involved it seemed like your

1:03:26expectations should have been at least middle of the road

1:03:28well let's just say the last three Star Wars movies estaba not the best I know

1:03:32but there's the whole different set of maybe don't know but the whole route

1:03:37it's it's even bigger than the dq Phil Schiller thing all people out new people

1:03:41in

1:03:42I'm like the average consumer I wasn't believed in that world of paying

1:03:45attention all that stuff I didn't expect much from it because the last few hours

1:03:50movies I've seen have been terrible effects that they didn't they didn't

1:03:54just shuffle things around a little bit

1:03:56complete change of hands new people in charge entirely everything on the

1:04:00internet comes back to these days that's what you have to say just go see

1:04:03tomorrow how are you the one who has it seems like it's somehow market has been

1:04:07to the new I don't understand what's going on today

1:04:10bizarro world it is bizarre it's a Christmas miracle

1:04:13this is our Christmas to tell me that hops on should have brought him he would

1:04:17have enjoyed it

1:04:18god no no we need we need a babysitter 'cause we have like a baby now we're all

1:04:23a cold and boring and no but you have family close by

1:04:26make this happen but you're kidding preschool actually the theater when I

1:04:29went to an Alamo Drafthouse we delete this account like hipster the

1:04:32interchange but I inadvertently booked a baby showing they did they do like baby

1:04:37ok showing they allow people to bring babies and if they cry lol

1:04:41not happy about this but it turned out at the matter there is like one big hole

1:04:45through the crowd like ones but it wouldn't matter but that might exist

1:04:49near you if you can find that that is the kind of thing you would have around

1:04:53that area around me now

1:04:55now there's no Alabama Drafthouse cinema near here at least an hour away

1:04:59welterweight look at look at me look at local theaters to see if they have any

1:05:02leak BB showings of movies I think some theaters are in to do that now I went to

1:05:06an art show was great what does that include as they only know you know

1:05:11people who are dressed up for people who think seriously about ever dressing up

1:05:15for people who could safely be friends with someone who dresses up very

1:05:18respectful there that's how I thought the only way to do it

1:05:20did they market it that way or is it just now but it just happens naturally

1:05:24we congregate I clearly am NOT a card-carrying nerd as I have no idea

1:05:29when that would be if you saw it on the 17th and especially if you saw it either

1:05:34the very first showing more like a ridiculously late showing the known sane

1:05:38person would ever go to your house at three and its fine arts is the best so I

1:05:44guess we're done talking about this

1:05:4460 minutes thing to be honest I have no I have nothing else to add I mean it was

1:05:49it was interesting to watch it's probably worth the twenty thirty minutes

1:05:53of your time assuming that you live in the united states I I saw something

1:05:58fly-by on Twitter that it's it's locked down to the USB cuz reasons but it is

1:06:03worth your time it don't expect anything monumental I also watched their what

1:06:07they called 60 minutes overtime segments which were not that particularly

1:06:13interesting or worthwhile the one thing I will say is that I was happy to see

1:06:17and clearance come out from the shadows

1:06:20they spoke to her a few times and I was very impressed with her I thought she

1:06:24was really really good which is what one would expect given that she was once the

1:06:27CEO they did have said there were there were some tidbits in there may be honest

1:06:31I know about this but one of the things they were shown like the model Apple

1:06:33Store like oh this is a test that our ideas for Apple there and there was one

1:06:37wall that had a bunch of foliage on it was very weird and I'm assuming no real

1:06:41Apple Store has that info have loved to see that like you know that travels are

1:06:46some ideas I would love to see that idea make it out of the model and be going to

1:06:50the Apple store and the like have one wall of the bunch of green vines hanging

1:06:54down and also the ones were like they had cases and you'd like the case was

1:06:58the poll on the thing lots of ideas there so that doesn't exhibit two

1:07:01seconds and the other reason to watch it that this will make you angry about 60

1:07:06minutes but interested in and seeing this as you get to see him go get fired

1:07:10up about keeping their money overseas and are stupid tax laws and labor

1:07:15practices and stuff it gets kind of angry sounds like a fun time to ask him

1:07:22some questions I always ask him and they don't like he probably game substantive

1:07:26he gave like very substantial thorough and answers to them

1:07:29we've heard him give those answers before I like an apple earnings calls

1:07:32and and the things he has four cycles and everything but in 60 minutes three

1:07:38sentences that they cut out of your big long comprehensive answer and there are

1:07:41three sentences man Tim Cook is the angriest and they don't explain anything

1:07:44in the move on to the next topic so it was really garbage from a perspective of

1:07:50like giving insight to anybody who doesn't know about these issues are you

1:07:53get the idea that we say this leading question

1:07:56angrily denies it I don't know what the truth is not a nation now it's time to

1:08:00ask about something else but it was interesting to see Tim Cook leaning

1:08:04forward in his chair and getting probably the most sort of worked up I

1:08:08never seen him

1:08:09you know public scenario that would have loved to have heard but Steve Jobs are

1:08:15said to the same things that he would have had a smirk more of a smart

1:08:18investing in earnest so either way there was no information like you couldn't

1:08:22draw any conclusions for now like Tim Cook I'm sure gave a good answer but

1:08:27sixty minutes just is not going to air it which is a real shame I would love to

1:08:32see you interview on 60 minutes John and it just seemed like how the heck they

1:08:36would at the guy feel I feel for those guys because they're getting interviewed

1:08:40you know half an hour 20 minutes 45 minutes to an hour and they're gonna

1:08:44take literally five sentences and that's what they're going to buy sentences five

1:08:47of the most dramatic sounding sentences with no surrounding context and is

1:08:51nothing you can do about you can explain yourself before you can explains that

1:08:54they're just gonna pull them out and that's what people are going to see in

1:08:58just like wow they even agree to it why would they agree to be at least they

1:09:01have no control over what the sentences are I don't like it

1:09:06this is honestly this is why I haven't rushed to watch it because I figured

1:09:09like you know TV interviews are so low density he'd like there's so little

1:09:15content in them there's so much padding and time-wasting in them there's no

1:09:19smart speed it's also loadin sorry there is a my Tivo oh yeah of course there is

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1:11:24ago in a galaxy far along time ago we we wanted to talk about something that came

1:11:32out of nowhere and it's a new service product company start-up it's a new

1:11:39thing and it's called up there and it has a lot of X Apple people in it and

1:11:44John I think this was a kind of your baby so what do you want to tell us

1:11:48about up there were transferred later used to be in charge of Apple software

1:11:52stuff and sergeant like I was 10 and everything back for those IOUs and even

1:11:55over after he retired from Apple while ago that's when Craig victory took over

1:12:01basically and he disappeared to go on vacation and do whatever you wanna do

1:12:06but pretty quickly after you left Apple there were rumblings like Oh

1:12:10what's per trans next thing I guess you never really leave I guess we're just

1:12:13leaving become like I don't know a venture capitalist or support other

1:12:18technology things anyway they called the rumor was that he was involved in some

1:12:22kind of start up and they were doing something having to do with computers

1:12:25and that's all anybody knew about it I didn't pay too much attention for health

1:12:29services some point did service couple months back with this company called up

1:12:34there and when I went to their website at first it was like pretty impenetrable

1:12:40cuz they say you know if you have a cloud but translation on your web

1:12:46browser like a lot of what's going on here was doing some cloud and their

1:12:52computers and it's like how what is different about this company seem like

1:12:58they were saying they were going to store a bunch of stuff on their servers

1:13:01so you wouldn't have to start on yours

1:13:03honestly I have looked at this it's been the show notes for like two months I've

1:13:07looked at this every so often before the show and I cannot figure out what it is

1:13:12and why why do care about it and like the court upheld from the CEO was not be

1:13:16translated by the way is just one of the founders but to see roger tamraz's we

1:13:21like the way to backup to vanish from dictionary we built a consumer cloud

1:13:25from the ground up oh here we go we questioned everything literally

1:13:28experiment a lot of the cloud to be the primary place for your data this summer

1:13:33that the whole idea is like it's kind of like a Chromebook you know back up a

1:13:37Chromebook basis nothing on it that isn't already owns your Google service

1:13:41right up there the whole idea is don't worry about what's on your phone or on

1:13:46your Mac or wherever you want to be that's that's just like a local cash

1:13:50that's not where the toughest check your phone into the ocean

1:13:53who cares there was nothing on it anyway you're fine all your stuff is up there

1:13:57in the cloud and the like from the second quarters we experimented a lot

1:14:03they've been in stealth mode as they say for a long time so who knows what

1:14:08they've been doing behind the scenes but they do have a beta program and I'm on

1:14:12the beta and

1:14:13its public pay-per-view sign up for it I don't you know and they have a couple

1:14:19applications Mac application and as an iOS application of the ones I use them

1:14:25and it's like there were loud bang sign up they already have two factor

1:14:30authentication error that was really nice out of the gate because if you're

1:14:33gonna be a cloud thing I can add that I can your fifth year something is

1:14:36important to have it now and then I want you to put stuff into the crowd and they

1:14:41have like an easy button press it's like hey do you want to put your photos liver

1:14:45into the crowd and it's my photos library now like the family once a month

1:14:48or is likely only has like 10,000 Photo Center something like sure to go take

1:14:52those you know like I mean a lot of this going on just trusting Bergeron

1:14:55certainly not lady company or whatever and drag files into it whatever just

1:15:03whatever funds I told to pull my photos library just let it do its thing

1:15:08eventually uploaded my photos library and on the iOS application I can go and

1:15:13I can browse through all my photos in iPhoto library in like ten thousand or

1:15:16so there was some weirdness in that phone totally sink like uploaded them

1:15:22from my Mac and then to get the phone totally saying there was the best way to

1:15:28do it was to have the phone in the application launches like an option that

1:15:33says don't don't let your phone go to sleep when applications in the

1:15:35foreground because he gets up loads better faster when the application is

1:15:38running in the foreground I know that was an option but apparently it is it

1:15:41anyway they got everything uploaded there they have a camera application as

1:15:45well which is kind of getting more into have a source to work it's a camera for

1:15:50your phone and you launch this application instead of luck in nineteen

1:15:53Apple's camera application you take pictures but instead of the pictures

1:15:56going on to your phone the pictures go directly into the cloud and if it's

1:16:00there is you'll never feel your phone with pictures you know that's that's a

1:16:04real thing that a lot of people have smartphones do is they take pictures

1:16:07take pictures take pictures and they thought their phone and I was storage

1:16:10management is such that there is not a real easy way out of that without you

1:16:14need to have an iPod photo library

1:16:16that turned on do you have a Mac and you know that their thing is never gonna

1:16:22throw your phone because we don't put the pictures on your phone you take

1:16:25pictures and we need to upload them now obviously everything that up there is

1:16:30predicated on you having a network connection like a network connection

1:16:32being somewhat reliable and somewhat you know having a reasonable amount of

1:16:37bandwidth so its authority looking play where the future is not going to be

1:16:43doing stuff local anything how to sync it the future is going to be pushing

1:16:47everything up that that's a pretty safe bet what it all comes down to that with

1:16:51us that that's why everyone hears about this entry through website and thinks

1:16:53that it's like whatever you're like uploading stuff to a server somewhere

1:16:57who cares what it all comes down to his execution how well does uploads doctors

1:17:02think ever get stuck does can access go through all 10,000 I pictures how long

1:17:07does it take for the thumbnail slowed and I don't know what exactly they're

1:17:11doing tech wise because the website is not eliminating I would imagine since

1:17:15they've been still thought a really long time but they're trying to do is come up

1:17:17with a better interface then like the application uses posits a pas de deux

1:17:22synchronous io to your local disk and then some demon process wonders the file

1:17:26system and like Dropbox or whatever and finds things and opens an HDB connection

1:17:31and shoves the files wanted time to our servers like that's the old way of doing

1:17:35things I don't know if they're doing exactly that or if they are you know I'm

1:17:40imagining sorry is it more interesting abstractions where instead of going

1:17:43through a POSIX file i/o API they have their own file i/o API that does

1:17:49intelligent things like better support for streaming and batching of multiple

1:17:53things and like you know handling failures better and being a synchronous

1:17:59and asynchronous my default being multithreaded and being able to use

1:18:02multiple connections and handling like that's what I'm imagining is behind the

1:18:07scenes but the bottom line is it uploaded all my pictures and when I

1:18:10scroll through them I can scroll through all of them and the thumbnails load and

1:18:14you know pretty fast and when you go to the IRS usage screen to see how much

1:18:20disk space the up their obligations taking up it's like nothing like 90

1:18:24Megabus so I think it really is streaming all the stuff in real time

1:18:27from the cloud as they say

1:18:29and like the picture on their website is storing our entire digital lives photos

1:18:36videos music and documents in a single place that it's always accessible

1:18:39growing evolving ready to share their sharing stuff is in better than Apple

1:18:42already there that you can make like something called loop we can have

1:18:46multiple people putting their foes into a single bucket right and so you know

1:18:50you could do that

1:18:51family photo library where the whole family could have camera applications

1:18:55every picture they take to go into one giant shared thing people can contribute

1:18:58is like it just seems like a forward-looking way to do everything and

1:19:05is a Malaysian good just because they have 5 beta testers and all five of us

1:19:09our connection to their supermassive be terrible and as a million people could

1:19:13the scale to be the size of I kappa music or like a photo I have no idea all

1:19:18I know is that whatever the heck they're doing it's working and Apple should buy

1:19:22them because it's better than everything Apple is doing even though they're not

1:19:24going to upload pictures yes can I see them all guests can scroll through the

1:19:29store any files on my iPhone not as far as I can tell so it does what it says on

1:19:35the tin and it's pretty impressive I have been on the beta for like a week or

1:19:40two now because I didn't get a clear read on what the intention is for the

1:19:46app in fact you describing it as give me a much better understanding than than

1:19:50the very little bit of documentation I read I didn't know to make it seem like

1:19:54the Mac App it has some tabs on the left has flow which I guess is just kind of a

1:19:59good news feed sort of thing it has photos and videos music and documents

1:20:02and it's not i mean i understand what those words mean I understand that

1:20:07presumably I'm supposed to start chucking things in these buckets but it

1:20:12was entirely clear to me what the long-term plays here and I understand

1:20:15that a lot better it seems to work well like you said I mean I'm not I haven't

1:20:20really tried much with it but there's plenty of stuff there and it certainly

1:20:24is streaming things from the cloud like you said very quickly so initial

1:20:30impressions by me were confusion but happy confusion of that if such a thing

1:20:35exists

1:20:35now that I've heard you talk about it I'm very interested to play with the iOS

1:20:39appetite never bothered to download maybe that's half my problem very

1:20:43interested to play with that and see how it goes but it wouldn't surprise me if

1:20:48this was in some ways just an acquisition play to see if Apple was

1:20:52feeling desperate to get away from web checks and and and hire a team that can

1:20:58that can solve this problem once and for all

1:21:00presumably like that it's a tech glad that it's not just that they've done

1:21:04like I said they did you exact same thing everyone else is doing just using

1:21:08HTTP connections with Tara libraries and doing local file i/o and just like you

1:21:13doing that slightly better than you know one percent better than everyone else it

1:21:16seems like the only reason this could ever be a startup is someone has some

1:21:19good ideas about how to abstract the file system on the network in a way that

1:21:24accounts for the modern world news not like backward-looking like it to some

1:21:27degree like even drop boxes that it's just a bunch of local files on desk and

1:21:31it is another process that watches and moves them up and down and I and i wanna

1:21:36talk about something else like surely it is not loading we just on the time

1:21:40surely it is you there

1:21:41chucking them up or streaming them down or like it's not making a new connection

1:21:45everyone definitely right house dealing with like the size of the thumbnails and

1:21:49Mike just and and how is it

1:21:52house keeping up with my scrolling and knowing which things it wants to to load

1:21:55and stuff like that and then right now the beta whatever like I'm not putting

1:21:59anything that nothing is only in my entire photo library they really smart

1:22:04save this one but impressive on to things like the only upload your photo

1:22:06library right i mean you don't use photos so you didn't see that but there

1:22:10wouldn't be useful to you but for me unlike fine go ahead because it's it's

1:22:12just reading from the photos library keep in sync with it and everything too

1:22:15and same thing when I wanna take photos with the regular Apple camera app it

1:22:19like a million other apps like member they did drop box camera operator will

1:22:22try to see when you take pictures with your photo app

1:22:25of those using it now as a toy to play with every once in awhile to see what

1:22:29the performance like trying to figure out what the what the heck they're

1:22:31actually doing behind the scenes and yet another free backup for all my photos

1:22:36near the small of my life not the big lie thought about signing up my wife

1:22:41bought and and trying to put the big library

1:22:44up to the thing to see if it would choke on that because 10,000 is that they have

1:22:47a challenge but about sixty or seventy thousand now can you but maybe I'll do

1:22:51this is torture test but I would never burn it only anything only end up there

1:22:55and you know business model and it's all free basis of knows what they would

1:22:58charge the stuff so it's still a big question mark

1:23:00pricing is a pretty big question mark going like that that matters a lot to

1:23:04how how many people will even bother trying to adopt in the first place

1:23:08because vote libraries can be quite big and if you're talking about like storing

1:23:13all my stuff up there all my documents or even many of my documents plus all my

1:23:17photos plus you know I can immediately that gets very big very quickly

1:23:21especially if you've any video shooting but their explanation and the people

1:23:25behind making things like the obvious that they would take that into account

1:23:27the whole idea is that the old way of doing the other way that everybody else

1:23:31is doing them with sort of using eighties and nineties text to solve my

1:23:35problem is really in the future for the future over everybody as ubiquitous fast

1:23:40connections but as you know getting closer every day that they are coming at

1:23:44it from that perspective they you know they must have smart solutions for not

1:23:48just the API and how to write applications into this bag and but how

1:23:53the backend work how it hosted how it scaled how you know what the economics

1:23:57are how much does it cost for us to host X amount of data can we undercut

1:24:01everyone else prices by using better technology because we can more

1:24:05efficiently store they got him again they don't tell you it's their secret

1:24:09you know whatever I have no idea what it means but all I can look at is the front

1:24:13and the front end seems to work more smoothly than every other friend and I

1:24:19try to be there be Dropbox or Microsoft's one drive thing or Google

1:24:24Drive or like we've all tried all these different things

1:24:27casa so many different services that it that are like this and you know they're

1:24:34good ones I use Dropbox all-time like they're not they're not bad but this

1:24:37impressed me with just how sort of no nonsense and smooth it is and how I

1:24:43don't even know how they're doing it how like how is that I'm able to scroll

1:24:46through ten thousand photos and the thumbnails like they're not they're

1:24:49instantly there's little white squares initially but they pretty fast ball

1:24:53screens on this I don't have no idea how it's doing that but it's pretty

1:24:56impressive

1:24:57assuming that this actually becomes a thing and and launches to the public

1:25:02some kind of business model is one thing would you obviously they don't want to

1:25:06be your cloud backup service they want to be your primary storage and possibly

1:25:13your only stories therefore cos is there even easy way to like maintain a local

1:25:18copy of everything or do they really not want to do that that's what I'm getting

1:25:21at I don't know like maybe that's the long-term plan obviously the right now

1:25:26they are perfectly willing to be on everest they will pull in content and

1:25:30sit like you don't have to manually so I took some new photos with my phone like

1:25:33they were every time you launch the app it will sync up any new photos you've

1:25:37taken any time at anything to my photos I'm not using up there at this point but

1:25:41up there is every time I launch it is playing all that stuff in so it's a

1:25:46great sort of on-ramp like that they they want to make it easier for people

1:25:50to lunch at that and say we know you have elsewhere and probably you want to

1:25:53keep yourself elsewhere and probably going to deal with elsewhere but we're

1:25:57here too and they would have to sort of get you into the flow by saying we're

1:26:01cheaper than your other hosting a more reliable than photos eventually become

1:26:04trustworthy I mean realistically speaking depardieu by somebody for any

1:26:08of this happens but look impressive but you know I don't see any reason why they

1:26:13would you getting out of things like would you would you ever like put your

1:26:16stuff in there would you trust it as primary stories because they're trying

1:26:21to get rid of backups I don't know that I could do that well I mean like its

1:26:26aspiration obviously get rid of backups because if immediate your datacenter and

1:26:32stuff right so where is gonna have a nice have you know my my backups and my

1:26:36Time Machine and I clone and and the question of can you have locally copies

1:26:41were yep I just keep using photos and I have one of them access to always have a

1:26:45low copy the photos and have 17 backups of that including online like that's the

1:26:49way I will continue to go but I could see for example not enabling the the

1:26:57thing that lets you know that whatever the iCloud photo library lets you see

1:27:00your entire library on your phone because it's too onerous or maybe an

1:27:02enabling but never going to like for example when someone says I like I can

1:27:08be accessed 04 Leverkusen as someone

1:27:10ask questions like What did you know you could look like when he was three years

1:27:13old right I like being able to launch a thing on the phone and go to the year

1:27:17and say you know I have access to everything I think this year but it's

1:27:21lowered to do that with iCloud photo library than it is to do that with up

1:27:24there just because it is I can go to the year faster and faster and you know like

1:27:30that's that's a win for me of that that takes over that role where I no longer

1:27:36go to photos to look at my photos I just go up there because the same things are

1:27:40both places and has nothing to do with that said whatever it's a long road from

1:27:44there to the aspirational goal of like a week it by yourself and that's right but

1:27:48I i truly believe in that state not the end of backups but maybe in the backups

1:27:54for regular people like where you could get it to the point where it's reliable

1:27:58on redundant enough that you won't be a big thing about now you're obsessed with

1:28:02people like have you ever backed up your phone

1:28:05have you enabled like that for a library if I run over your phone with the car

1:28:09are checking into the ocean

1:28:11did you just lose the pictures of your infant child has now five years all

1:28:14because you never impede your phone before the whole problem filling your

1:28:17phone with photos like all those concerns I would like to be addressed

1:28:21then go adding Android is better to dressing down Apple's catching up with

1:28:25the photo library and up there is trying to say we're out we're way out here at

1:28:28the extreme where you guys want to be and I'm selling it as a competition

1:28:35between implementations really at this point and their implication looks pretty

1:28:38good

1:28:39they slept for three sponsors this week

1:28:42Leinart fracture and Harry's and we'll see you next week

1:28:48now the show they didn't even mean to begin to see it was accidental

1:28:56accidental

1:29:00Casey

1:29:04and a team are cool

1:29:47I do about plugging it is quite good

1:29:52magical you spent well maybe you didn't spend any money this week Marco but you

1:29:58in you

1:29:58in you

1:00:00kid yourself to spending some money sometime soon you wanna tell us about

1:00:03that I spent son is a deposit yes so in order to test left and you lost the bet

1:00:10I know I I knew already that I lost the bet nobody else did the bet was in there

1:00:16in the winnings were just bragging rights

1:00:19the bet was that Marco would absolutely get the performance version of whatever

1:00:23testified that he ended up buying and that's because Marco doesn't typically

1:00:28know how to do halfway on anything as it turns out I lost the bet and you did not

1:00:34get a p90 D or E

1:00:36p90 no deal whatever it is I forget the different permutations what did you end

1:00:41up getting I want to run run through the set up with us I got the 9th ed so it is

1:00:48approximately m5 speed and maximum range available in a test today it's white

1:00:55because it's the only color cars can be in getting its read my first non

1:01:03dark-colored car in a long day ever really my first non black car in a

1:01:08decade at least so red Tesla 9th ed is coming in late March when my lease is up

1:01:14but I ordered it now to get take advantage of some discount they were

1:01:17running before the year was nineteen silver cyclone wheels I know in in the

1:01:24pictures so I can read you can argue that the dark colored wheels would

1:01:28probably look better and in pictures they do first of all I think up-close

1:01:33look a little bit flat like it they almost look like painted plastic I know

1:01:38they're not just like the finish on them is kinda like flat a little bit dull

1:01:42they also because it is just like you know i didnt color coding on top of a

1:01:47regular one of these made it a steel aluminum metal depends anyway so

1:01:53whatever metal it is probably aluminum the dark colored wheels any kind of curb

1:01:58rash anywhere any scratches whatsoever on them that bright color metal below

1:02:03just shines right through and you can see everything and and sure enough I get

1:02:07whatever i'd i'd be a Tesla dealer looking at these things they would often

1:02:11be customer cars park

1:02:13in the lot like you know just getting service to people visiting to cooking

1:02:17utensils or whatever and every car I saw in person that was a customer-owned car

1:02:21that had dark wheels on it had very visible scratches on those people can

1:02:27just drive just can't drive went past a black model S today with the big dark

1:02:34colored wheels at the supermarket their red brake calipers too I think there are

1:02:38no scratches on the yeah if it has the red calipers that is AP model it was

1:02:42tempting to spend twenty grand extra just for red calipers but I did not get

1:02:49a lot more than red calipers but point noted will but obviously so you get the

1:02:53red calipers and you get the faster rear-ended another has the details of

1:02:59the two engines the rear engine is faster but those are actually the only

1:03:02two differences plus you get less range but like the suspension is all the same

1:03:07everything else about the cars the same I've confirmed with multiple people from

1:03:11my drive and it totally is certainly seems that way the the only thing

1:03:16different is the engine the red calipers and you the option for a spoiler on the

1:03:21back of a hate you got red you got the 19 inch super cyclone wheels what other

1:03:26options he said ninety days ninety black interior sunroof auto pilot range

1:03:33upgrade premium interior the big national seats I did not get the smart

1:03:38air suspension this I was going to and i did some reading and did some research

1:03:43and it sounds like the air suspension really does make the car feel more like

1:03:49a cushy or softer ride and I did not think that that was even when I wanted

1:03:57let alone worth $2,500 extra on the purchase price even the leasing still it

1:04:02would be out paper behalf of that so i didnt get smart air suspension I want a

1:04:07more firm sporty ride and I did not get the ultra high fidelity sound because I

1:04:14I did a back-to-back tests of those in the showroom an Patel's very little

1:04:17difference in the two sound system than either of them sounded great to me like

1:04:20they presented honestly pretty mediocre

1:04:23I figured I might as well not spend extra money on mediocrity I did get the

1:04:27sub-zero weather package because they live in a place with bill seasons and

1:04:30did not get the rear facing seats because for the next three years of this

1:04:33lease will cover my wife I decided that we would probably not be comfortable

1:04:37with our kid in those seized during this age period by enough to make it worth

1:04:42getting them for an extra $3,000 where'd you get as the interior trim like accent

1:04:47get but carbon fiber looking you know that was actually a tough call the

1:04:52carbon fiber looks decent but kinda like hurt my eyes and anticipate you hear

1:04:57matters a lot because she has the passenger usually when I'm driving she

1:05:01sees the trim way more than I do cuz it's as big strip right front passenger

1:05:05side and in the driver side you don't really see much of it so she didn't care

1:05:09for the carbon fiber so you know that was fun

1:05:13the two would like a basically a glossy and matte what I didn't look at the map

1:05:17so I was basically I between glossy wood and the piano black the piano black my

1:05:22current car has that I know I like it is very nice that being said it shows

1:05:26fingerprints and scratches like crazy but I decided ultimately I would rather

1:05:30have your printed piano black trim

1:05:33like it better I'd rather have that than perfect glossy wood trim and stoked I am

1:05:39yeah I'm actually looking forward to 20 something new I mentioned before I love

1:05:44having him five it's been great I do however miss although Dr yes I know

1:05:48they're adding it to the next model but it isn't there now I also mentioned

1:05:52earlier that I really want a quieter car BMW does not currently sell a quieter

1:05:57car that has all wheel drive that has a transmission that I would tolerate said

1:06:02maybe the is is 335 extra is still available and stick you know I don't

1:06:07know it's a 340 now anyway but I honestly don't know I would think not

1:06:12think I think it might be that would probably only option 25 sears is totally

1:06:15out of 5 Series you can't get that you can't you can get a stick with I would

1:06:19drive if at all anymore and you can't deceive any the five series and I will

1:06:24not drive the Sprott oh yes I've driven it and no it is not the same as if the

1:06:29test is it in some ways it's not as good as as the m5 and I'm not expecting it to

1:06:34match it in a luxury feel feat

1:06:37jurors the interior is more luxurious feeling no question and very much going

1:06:43to miss the heads up display and the top-down parking camera that since the

1:06:47last real-time follow-up you can get a 340 i xDrive with a manual transmission

1:06:52ok so that is the only other car BMW makes that would consider getting right

1:06:57now to the new lineup but that also I I really don't like the F 33 series

1:07:03honestly I don't like it I don't like the steering system I don't really care

1:07:07for the way it looks and and I think the interior has actually gotten lower

1:07:12quality in certain ways in the previous three series and the lack of the All

1:07:17button on the climate control just kills me that is really insane I don't know

1:07:21why you're not shopping Mercedes at this point you never talk never talked about

1:07:25Mercedes but he's now safely within the most diverse cities you know market I I

1:07:32did I i recent trip I actually I rented a Mercedes guy I was on a trip about a

1:07:38year ago I had to rent a car and I rented a e-class their version 5 Series

1:07:43yeah yes I rented and eat something something it was like the v-6 roughly

1:07:48300 horsepower like they basically their version of 335 early 535 I wouldn't say

1:07:53that but yeah anyway so I rented that a driver for a few days and it was a

1:07:57really nice driving car but definitely not for me overall I think they I think

1:08:04first of all I don't care pharmacies designs very much at their little bit

1:08:07dated for me well when you say that you mean exterior design yes host I think

1:08:13they've gotten pretty lili although that being said the brand brand brand new

1:08:17ones are very bubbly and I'm not as into that but up until about this year the

1:08:22year prior

1:08:23there was like a five-year stretch where they went from really really really

1:08:27boring to actually very pretty but for me it's a non-starter because they don't

1:08:33believe in three pedals I know but like but he doesn't have three pedals anymore

1:08:37anyway he has a has introduced as I understand like I feel like a Mercedes S

1:08:41Class like when you come back from your hangover by then the S Class might be

1:08:48like it might be I don't know but I also I I really don't care for the mercedes

1:08:53media system change every year but he's not received at five years or whatever

1:09:01but yeah I know they're all they're all terrible and yeah I mean I'm not saying

1:09:05to be tested forever I'm saying we are going to be tested for the next three

1:09:07years

1:09:08that's the police cars but so I i am looking forward to trying something new

1:09:13to try and electric to it being a truly different and I'm seeing as I said when

1:09:19I drove them to at least feeling modern really filled with today and you know in

1:09:2330 in three years and I have to choose my next vehicle whether I get another

1:09:28test or something else by that time there will probably be more options or

1:09:33or more compelling

1:09:35options from the other luxury brands right now there really isn't much there

1:09:39will definitely be there forever they've all got a test

1:09:42fighters in in the works like that that Porsche concept looks really nice

1:09:45honestly I don't know if that will get that would pan out into something and

1:09:49god knows how much it will cost to it does but it does look really nice on

1:09:53paper at least we'll see what happens with Mercedes and BMW and Audi and I you

1:09:57know and you know even accurate any anybody else we'll see what happens in

1:10:01their electric department right now as I have to make a decision right now

1:10:05Tesla is by far my favorite option of what I was available right now I'm

1:10:11excited for you should be really awesome to be sad to not have you personally in

1:10:17the BMW family anymore but at least your family will still be a BMW family don't

1:10:22worry I'm sure at some point we'll be back there is a lot about the way BMW

1:10:27does things that I do prefer you know I do prefer not having a giant touch

1:10:32screen I think you know it will see again we'll see what happens when I get

1:10:34it but I do think I'm gonna prefer still haven't hardware knobs two giant screens

1:10:38if given the choice I do certainly like a heads up display and I do like the BMW

1:10:44quality interior and that's in the 5 series so maybe eventually there will be

1:10:48and all-electric 5 series that will be really compelling that will be nice to

1:10:53me that because that will eliminate the problem I have with the regular 5 series

1:10:57of having a transmission I hate if they can move to not having a transmission

1:11:01that does solve the probable we'll see what happens

1:11:05did you ask people if the model is designed for short trips can get

1:11:12examined her will is designed for that chicken salad John thing on my stomach I

1:11:18prefer XO Why What yeah this is worse than the windows thing I'm not against

1:11:25my go-to I would get cinnamon raisin bagel with egg salad on it wrapped up in

1:11:32wax paper and then cut in half through the wax paper as you know as a proper ok

1:11:37there are so many things wrong with this kid Kerr first of all is similar raisin

1:11:41bagel does not belong with any of the salads that is that is it illegal

1:11:45combination you're wrong you are so about that you don't know what you're

1:11:50missing john you're out of your mind

1:11:51second of all eggs salad only belongs on bread not bagels because it is such a

1:11:56soft feeling that you bite into a bagel it squeezes out I understand I

1:12:02understand the difficulties to hold the magic is getting that right

1:12:05it seems like it shouldn't work it seems like it should be a disaster that you

1:12:08would bite down at all we do is cause the bagel to choose digs out shooting

1:12:12out the side with an empty bag with but know it can be done we have the

1:12:17technology the wax paper is key

1:12:20you know your local deli that but you know I enrolled in during cutting

1:12:24basically right but they rapid really tightly and holding during cutting and

1:12:28you can move them back and eat it and it won't come shooting out the side and at

1:12:34the bagel is fresh and it's not like a stale big hard brick Cape thing you can

1:12:39actually buy it and not lose all of your Excel is a delicate balance I understand

1:12:43this is I haven't had a good one of those I don't know how many decades

1:12:47because ever be this terrible concept as a great content and is an advanced

1:12:53technique for you with if you want to make a bagel sandwich at home for

1:12:56example say you want a peanut butter and jelly on toast a bagel bitchez fabulous

1:12:58but I was

1:13:00to the bagel shop and that it was always a disaster whenever somebody order

1:13:06because that squeezes out like crazy I know I know let me give you a little

1:13:12tipsy r

1:13:14billion toasted bagel home how can you possibly make that work it seems like it

1:13:18should work on all right you don't know now you do we have we have ways so you

1:13:22toast the bagel and then one half of it you sort of dig a trench for the judge

1:13:28to go and you don't play at all the insides leaving a trench then you put

1:13:32the Chilean the trench the peanut butter that legal

1:13:35the peanut butter will stay on its own for the most part then you assemble it

1:13:39you can eat that sandwich nothing else we're out the side if assembled

1:13:43correctly nothing about the size and what you have is a toasted bagel sammich

1:13:47the things I do with bagels understands these advanced techniques Vance that I'm

1:13:52not sure that Holmes first of all accounts it counts as well as a key to

1:13:59hollow out some part of you eat the part you take out throwing it away the trick

1:14:03is not takes so much out of it you just basically left with just a crust right

1:14:07you have to take just the right amount will tuna has enough stretch into his

1:14:11very similar chicken salad and texturally it has enough strength

1:14:13internally to tolerate you can get more you can get more in there anyway you

1:14:19don't always have to do with Tony right it can hold together I like to sell it

1:14:22and I like bagels and I like bagels with tuna or chicken on them at no point have

1:14:27I ever had a bagel with tuna salad or chicken soured and thought I need to

1:14:31find ways to show up more of it and here I thought that because you can fit a lot

1:14:36in the regular way it really depends on how stiff your mixture as you know John

1:14:42and it is there all good things that are going hungry even thinking about them

1:14:45you're so wrong with these are all delicious things these are all delicious

1:14:50things that you can make in your own home you did these are terrible terrible

1:14:54things to know everything you just said has been wrong the first time I think

1:15:00any input about what's proper aideed bagels from some of his regime and

1:15:04second of all I'm also not going to take that interview somebody who just

1:15:07recently moved to New York which one of us is a New York right now oh recently

1:15:11moved to New York

1:15:12eight years ago her up there now what I got a big salad I i just am so i cant

1:15:20get past against egg salad is it and some anti-aids exam is delicious I i in

1:15:26general I I think I am against it and I i mean alot of fakes out of my life now

1:15:31the truth comes out against the egg salad bar garment against the bed for

1:15:36america is that exactly what happened to me a salad is not worth it when you have

1:15:46other options that are similar to its only if all you have in a store is a

1:15:50salad finally takes out but if right next to it is tuna salad and chicken

1:15:56salad those are both way better so I can be in any context in which I would

1:16:01choose egg salad with chicken or tuna salad or cream cheese or any other

1:16:06league sandwich topping were available I I like all of those things those are all

1:16:11good I feel like you have to mix it up you don't have the same thing every day

1:16:14you know maybe maybe your place that makes better chance than a cake so you

1:16:19cannot turn your nose up that I have never had egg salad that was good enough

1:16:23to overcome decent chickens out like I've had i think is fine but that's the

1:16:30most I've ever thought about six hours it's fine in other forms like I love

1:16:33deviled eggs which are very similar really in a deviled eggs have a lot of

1:16:37similarities in taste and ingredients to exile just in different shape and

1:16:41preparation but you know I love Asian other forms just egg salad is it's just

1:16:49so mediocre compared to the other options that it's usually next to its

1:16:55exiled is the sesame bagel of the salad

1:16:59come out against sesame bagels

1:17:03Abbott sesame bagels but you have to send email there one of the greatest

1:17:08bagels

1:17:09what I have against them is similar to have against a stout it's not worth it

1:17:12when you have better options nearby so it's like a sesame bagel is fine I've

1:17:17had many emails in my life

1:17:18they're fine chocolate cake for every meal every me john john you've been out

1:17:27of new york particular lost touch it it's no I am the only one here who is in

1:17:32touch you got use in Virginia and we've got him is coming around the world

1:17:36outside of bagels who was only recently which one of us goes to build up every

1:17:42day in New York oh that's right I i'm saying I guess you're coming from Ohio

1:17:46or average is trying to figure out this crazy new world and making it up as you

1:17:50go along the way it is why would you go get a sesame bagel with egg salad again

1:17:58sesame bagels and against the exam is not a position you want to stake out to

1:18:03an everything bagel with chickens out which is right next to those two you

1:18:07can't have everything on it you're always going to have never done

1:18:11everything big wasn't great but the whole idea that every single time you

1:18:14have it you have the most you know the best topping the big with the most stuff

1:18:19on it sometimes you gotta have you know there's a certain place for the poppy

1:18:24seed bagel sometimes you can have the plane bigger why would anyone there have

1:18:27a plain bagel people do it happens sometimes that's the right combination

1:18:31by not getting the really expensive tests you still getting the everything

1:18:39bagel with chicken salad because you can't bring yourself to have anything

1:18:42that you consider lesser but they're not lesser they're just different I mean I i

1:18:46have different big orders like I love a toasted bagel with butter and if you're

1:18:50gonna love butter everything is a good choice but so is rye or pumpernickel

1:18:54everything to make anything anyway because those things are actually good

1:19:02bagels are like they're like I would say a properly a proper toasted rye bagel

1:19:07with butter is just as good as it has everything bagel with butter but a

1:19:12sesame bagel is like the plane go to the dakotas his again either plaintively

1:19:16and the topping is included in everything and itself has almost no

1:19:22taste

1:19:23got everything it's already trying to find some common ground here

1:19:29caraway seeds and everything bagels yes I now know what I could just making sure

1:19:33that some people some people want that know everything bagels require five

1:19:37things sesame poppy garlic onion salt it is missing any of those things don't

1:19:41leave out the salt midwestern people it is missing any of those things it is not

1:19:45a proper everything bagel some people like the caraway seeds I gotta say no to

1:19:48that also some people put some flowers he done which is illegal now forget

1:19:52about the snow on there I can't handle it comes to John you're so out of touch

1:19:59it it's the only one who's in touch on the only one with authentic bagel

1:20:05experience in Connecticut have gotten nothing and Marco is

1:20:08tourists will see big leading world email John this weekend tell you what

1:20:14she was right

1:20:15leading world it's not it's not a democracy is the people who live in the

1:20:18New York metro area and everybody else and everyone else is wrong and we are

1:20:21right we don't live in the New York metro area I did I lived there I am I'm

1:20:27from there I will it will never leave me he can take whatever out of new york you

1:20:31know that you left it and I'm here today I can I can I can it's a Christmas

1:20:43miracle

1:20:45John so much right now this is terrible

1:20:50this really is worse than the like 90 windows thing I now i cant believe me

1:20:57bagels seriously protesters outside your house a sesame bagel with egg salad

1:21:02terrible it's so boring I don't have a sesame CII absurd it's like pairing you

1:21:08know pairing wine with meals no its not that that's that's kill yo yesterday yet

1:21:13that's where you're wrong you don't even understand you don't even know this is a

1:21:15skill that you can have let alone have the skills they pairing lightly flavored

1:21:19water sharing the bagel with the thing you put on it is a skill I agree I just

1:21:25don't think you have everything goes on an everything bagel right here I will I

1:21:30will fix this Marco do you or do you not put locks on a bagel

1:21:35I don't I don't like fish box but I recognize that you've ruined my many

1:21:41people love putting lox and bagels and were I to choose a bagel for locks

1:21:46everything will be pretty high on the list cuz I know people like that kind of

1:21:49like salt garlic onion flavor with the loss I know it's a very common

1:21:53combination John do would you do lox and bagel you know that finally we agree you

1:21:59too so ignorant but I just don't like fish when it's

1:22:04I have tried like I know what I'm missing and i'd like every time I said I

1:22:09like fish for four years like if you have to have a good for everyone

1:22:13good fish seems like I don't like sushi either there's some overlap there and

1:22:17ever so you haven't had good sushi and eventually somebody brings me to a place

1:22:21where they say ok this is good next thing I don't like I try it and I get I

1:22:26give it an honest shot and I hardly ever end up liking it but at least I but I

1:22:31can at least in an okay i atleast know what I'm missing now I N I have

1:22:36confirmed that I honestly don't like this but I've had the good thing maybe I

1:22:40can see why you like it you know but I can't see why anybody ever order

1:22:45acceptable for anything that's why I tried to call you when I'm there it

1:22:50seems like if you were going to be a big ol you might as well just get plane or

1:22:53if you if you want if you want flavor and stuff you get everything can all

1:22:57agree on sesame only you are agreeing on sesame and the rest of the New York

1:23:03metro area is not a state to meet the sesame bagel is it's like that that's

1:23:08like that's what the duck computer that's my favorite kind of bagel like I

1:23:12like them all but he would you put on it in your expert bagel pairing experience

1:23:17things the things that pair well with me

1:23:20surveyed with butter on it is very nice to meet with two very nice if I had to

1:23:27get to consolidate your daily I would probably go with us