459: I Appreciate Whopping


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 459. Today's show is brought to you by Electric,

00:00:15   Text Expander and Factor. My name is Mike Hurley, I'm joined by Jason Snell. Hi Jason.

00:00:21   Hi Mike. Big week this week. I feel like a bit of unexpected news that we're going to be talking

00:00:28   about before WWDC, so that was fun. The ice is cracking Mike, it's starting to crack.

00:00:33   Yes. It's cracking, it's like the, it's going to start breaking off into little pieces,

00:00:38   the log jam, the ice jam is going to stop and we're going to end the whole... Is there

00:00:43   a log stuck behind the ice? Glacier. Is that what we're saying? It's a glacier. I've decided

00:00:47   it's a glacier, there are logs on the glacier. Anyway, it's going to, there's a, in this

00:00:50   metaphor things are starting to move. Okay. After a couple of months where things were

00:00:56   kind of bottled up, so the ice is melting and flowing and the river is going to, the

00:01:00   dam, the ice dam is going to burst and it's going to just like... The ice dam? Ice dam,

00:01:06   yeah. There's a lot of metaphors in this. Walking up the river. I don't know, I don't

00:01:11   even know what I'm talking about, yes. What I'm saying is, it's been very peaceful and

00:01:16   quiet in the valley. There you go. In Apple Valley. Wait, there's a valley now? Apple

00:01:21   Valley. Right. It's the name. With a glacier in it. Yeah, at the edge, end of the valley

00:01:26   there's a glacier and it blocks up the river causing the lake, the glacial lake to be there.

00:01:31   But come late May, early June, come WWDC time, everything heats up and then the river flows.

00:01:42   That's metaphor of the day. I have a snow talk question for you. Comes from Sammy who

00:01:48   says, "Now that you work for yourself, do you still make keynote presentations? And

00:01:53   if so, what for?" I used to use keynote to do user group presentations, especially back

00:01:58   in the day where I made them in, made appearances at user groups in person. What happens is,

00:02:03   I went out on my own, Chris Breen got pulled inside Apple, he used to do presentations

00:02:08   to Mac user groups all the time and he basically bestowed them upon me. He said, "Talk to Jason,

00:02:14   Jason could do them now that he's working at Apple, he can do it." And so I would do

00:02:18   that and those were keynote presentations generally. Pandemic hit, all of those user

00:02:23   groups went online and I did keynote presentations at the beginning and then I realized I kind

00:02:29   of hated it and it was extra work that was unnecessary and my new official user group

00:02:35   posture is, they're always like, "Do you have a slide deck?" And I say, "No, I don't. I'm

00:02:42   not interested in that now because I don't think it adds a whole lot. It's a lot of extra

00:02:46   overhead for me and I might as well use that time thinking about my content and sharing

00:02:52   it with them and not having them look at slides that don't say anything anyway." So yeah,

00:02:56   I used to use keynote all the time. I don't anymore but I still have, I know how to use

00:03:02   it. I mean, I love keynote but I don't use it as much as I used to, for sure.

00:03:07   If you would like to send in a question of your own to help us open a future episode

00:03:11   of Upgrade, just go to upgradefeedback.com and submit a Snell Talk question. I would

00:03:16   just like to say at this moment, I want to just extend thanks to all the Upgradians again

00:03:20   who have wholeheartedly embraced upgradefeedback.com. I get so much more high quality follow-up

00:03:26   and feedback than I've ever gotten in the entire history of us doing this show. So I

00:03:31   just want everyone to know I really appreciate it. I read everything. Even if it doesn't

00:03:35   get included, it has been read. It's been great.

00:03:39   And I don't read anything except what's in the show doc. I should probably rectify that.

00:03:43   You can just go and peruse at your leisure.

00:03:45   Can we get, yeah, all right. I will. Sure.

00:03:47   But please don't delete anything.

00:03:48   I'm going to make some CMS requests later today, so watch out for that.

00:03:51   Don't ask me. It's nothing to do with me.

00:03:53   Oh no, there's a channel called the Neon CMS in the relay FM Slack for hosts.

00:04:00   You can go in there and you can direct it to the CTO.

00:04:02   Yes, and then Steven can say, "No, we will not do that, Jason. Stop it."

00:04:07   Leave me alone.

00:04:08   Can I write a little script? Can I write a script that pulls it out and sends me a...

00:04:12   And he'll say, "No, do not scrape my website."

00:04:15   No, no, no, no. I can tell you right now that no one's going to make a script to send this

00:04:19   stuff out anywhere. Just log into the system. It's all in there. Yeah. Or don't. I can handle

00:04:25   it.

00:04:26   I'll read it. I don't like... Okay.

00:04:29   I do have quite a lot of follow up today. First off, we're going to talk about pizza

00:04:33   follow up.

00:04:34   Yes. Sub category.

00:04:37   Pizza follow up.

00:04:38   Pizza follow up. Lots of people, lots of people wrote in to let us know that the pizza place

00:04:44   that you enjoyed, Jason, was called in Utah, was called the Pie Pizzeria.

00:04:49   Yes, it is the pie. It's got like a pie symbol, at least in like a neon sign. It was... It's

00:04:56   funny because all this feedback came in after somebody asked me directly on Mastodon where...

00:05:01   what one I was talking about and I went and I looked it up. It's the pie underground location.

00:05:05   1320 East 200 South Salt Lake City, Utah. And get the barbecue chicken with Gouda. It's

00:05:13   good. That's my recommendation. But I love that place too because it was this kind of

00:05:17   like dark underground neon sign, very college. I loved it. It was a lot of fun. That was

00:05:22   a fun experience. I took...

00:05:23   Well, I will say...

00:05:24   My whole family there.

00:05:25   I won't read this person's feedback in entirety because I'm not sure that I should, but I

00:05:30   heard from somebody who was a previous manager of this exact place and they were very unhappy

00:05:35   with the company. But maybe they just had a bad time.

00:05:39   That's an interesting thing to share on a podcast feedback form. I will just say that

00:05:46   I endorsed the pizza there. I have no... I went there once and I had the best pizza I've

00:05:50   ever had.

00:05:51   I think it was more just like they didn't like their job, right? When they were there.

00:05:54   I think that was one thing.

00:05:56   Well, again, honestly, if I was working in the underground location, I really... You

00:06:00   don't see the sun. It's also a college place, right? So it was probably unruly college people,

00:06:06   college bros making trouble. But I'm just saying, put smoked gouda on a barbecue chicken

00:06:13   pizza. It's a pretty good idea.

00:06:15   Also, I should also mention now, a little footnote, not an improved John Syracuse of

00:06:21   pizza flavor. If you were curious, it's not. Because I made pizza one time at home. I made

00:06:31   two of them. One of them was a cheese pizza, I think, or maybe a pepperoni pizza. And then

00:06:36   the other one was a barbecue chicken pizza at a party at which John Syracuse was present.

00:06:41   And he said, "That's not pizza." Okay. Whatever it is, it's really good.

00:06:45   Speaking of approval, this wasn't shared in the feedback form, but in fact, via my own

00:06:51   iMessages from Federico Vittucci, the pizza segment of Upgrade is horrifying. I'm sorry,

00:06:57   but honey, in all caps, I died.

00:07:00   Yeah. Oh, no. RIT Federico.

00:07:02   He told me he died. It killed him. The honey killed him. Maybe Federico has a honey allergy.

00:07:06   I don't know.

00:07:07   It's the hot part that was the problem.

00:07:09   But this is just one of those things where I love Federico.

00:07:13   It's cultural differences.

00:07:14   I love Syracuse. Nobody can tell me that they own pizza. No one can tell me that.

00:07:20   If anybody out there is an ATP member, there was the frozen FedEx pizza episode. Bizarre.

00:07:29   Member special. Fascinating. Bizarre, but fascinating. And it really gets down to the

00:07:33   nub of it, which is John Syracuse loves the pizza that he had when he was a kid. And Casey

00:07:38   Liss loves the pizza he had when he was a kid. And Marco lived in Ohio, so he didn't

00:07:43   love anything. And there we are. Maybe a Hot Pocket.

00:07:48   At that place in New York.

00:07:51   John's a bleaker?

00:07:52   Yes. And it is excellent. And Casey Liss did something to me that was one of the best things

00:07:59   that any human has ever done to me. So he bullied me to go to this restaurant. He would

00:08:08   not stop. So I think me and Nadina were there and he was just constantly bullying us. So

00:08:14   we went, we ate there. It was wonderful. And I tell him, this is fantastic. And I asked

00:08:19   for the bill and he said, sir, your friend Casey called. He paid the bill. That is a

00:08:25   classy move. That is a classy move. Let it be known.

00:08:31   That is the power move. I love it. Amazing. It's been taken care of, sir.

00:08:41   Well, no wonder. So that's the message to all the Upgradians. Go to John's a bleaker

00:08:45   or pizza. Maybe Casey will pay for it.

00:08:49   Maybe.

00:08:50   Maybe. But I mean, I just, the larger story there is that I think there's some people

00:08:55   who want to be authoritative and say, you know, this is the only way. But what they

00:08:59   really mean is this is the way that they like it and love it and have come to know it. And

00:09:04   it's the, this speaks to them and it feels like home to them.

00:09:07   Or it's like culturally a certain thing, right? Like pizza is a, seems to be a meal, which

00:09:12   a lot of cultures hold onto.

00:09:15   The laugh out loud moment in that episode, sorry, feedback for a members only special.

00:09:21   But anyway, the laugh out moment in that episode is when John is describing the Brugers bagels,

00:09:26   I guess, location that he goes to in Massachusetts because they have acceptable bagels. And he

00:09:31   says, they also have stupid things like blueberry. But other than that, and I was listening to

00:09:38   this on a car trip with Lauren and she just laughed out loud when he said the stupid things

00:09:43   like blueberry, because like again, blueberry, not canonical. You look askance at any place

00:09:48   that has a blueberry bagel. It's like blueberry bagels. You know why they make them? Because

00:09:51   people like them and they sell. That's why they make them. You might not like it. And

00:09:55   that's fine. Anyway, barbecue chicken pizza is a pizza.

00:09:58   If you say that this place is like the best bagel place and your best bagel place also

00:10:02   makes the type of bagel that you like, it means it's still like, you're endorsing the

00:10:06   bagel place, right? So like they make it.

00:10:09   Yeah. So you got to put some asterisk if they make bagels you don't like. Yeah, I don't

00:10:14   know. Anyway, what I'm saying is barbecue chicken pizza is good. And I enjoyed the pizza

00:10:20   I had in Salt Lake City. And I'm sorry if you work there. I don't know. I don't know

00:10:26   what to say to that.

00:10:27   Claude wrote in to say that they were perusing Trader Joe's new items being added to the

00:10:31   Trader Joe's lineup and they found hot honey. And so they wanted to tell to share that with

00:10:35   me, which I thought was nice.

00:10:36   Yes. Hot honey is an ingredient that is available if you didn't know. We mentioned it last time.

00:10:40   It is available. I've gotten it in my meal box several times in the last year or two.

00:10:48   And I will say it always felt like an unnecessary additional ingredient to me where we would,

00:10:56   Lauren would usually say something like, there's hot honey if you want to put that on there,

00:11:01   but I don't think it's necessary. And I would look at the food and I'd be like, I agree.

00:11:05   This is totally unnecessary. So we still actually have packets of hot honey in our pantry.

00:11:10   Then put it on the pizza, Jason.

00:11:13   Maybe I will. Maybe I will.

00:11:15   This very weekend I had a pepperoni pizza with Nduja, which is a spicy sausage and honey.

00:11:22   That thing was incredible. So they didn't have pepperoni at that place or I would have

00:11:27   put it on there, but they didn't have it.

00:11:29   This is Nduja?

00:11:30   Do you mean Nduja?

00:11:31   No, I don't. It's a different thing. N-D-U-J-A. Nduja.

00:11:36   Oh, it's a different, oh, well that's confusing.

00:11:39   Totally different thing. Yeah. Nduja sausage is a different thing.

00:11:43   That's very weird. Anyway, hot honey, huh? Okay. Well, so noted.

00:11:48   And that ends our pizza follow up.

00:11:51   No more pizza follow up.

00:11:52   For now. Until next time.

00:11:53   We're going to talk about iPhone pricing now instead.

00:11:56   All right, let's move on.

00:11:57   A few people wrote in with a version of this. I will read Gaurav's feedback because it was

00:12:02   the most complete. "Regarding iPhone prices in India." So we were talking about this a

00:12:07   lot when talking about the earnings last time and the growing sales market for Apple in

00:12:13   India. Gaurav says, "The reason prices are a problem is due to import duties put on electronics

00:12:20   not made in India. An iPhone 14 Pro base model here is priced at what would equate to $1,588

00:12:29   US dollars, which is 50% higher than the standard US sales price. Many of us get our iPhones

00:12:36   via friends and family living abroad for this reason. Previous year non-pro models have

00:12:41   been made in India for a while and have similar or lower prices than in the US. While still

00:12:46   too expensive for the majority of the Indian population, even a small percentage is a decent

00:12:51   absolute number."

00:12:52   So this to me was the biggest reason of like, oh, Apple's making things in India. Yeah,

00:12:59   because they want to sell them. The idea of the diversification is like, well, see, I don't

00:13:06   know if I missed this, but I just always thought it was diversification. But no, this is also

00:13:10   because they want to sell the products in these countries.

00:13:13   No, this is literally why they make iPhones in Brazil is because Brazil has a huge tax

00:13:19   on that stuff brought in from outside Brazil. And they're like, okay, well, maybe we should

00:13:23   just make a factory in Brazil. And India, if it's got a huge potential market, then

00:13:27   making phones in India, since they've got a huge tariff is a way to do that. So yeah,

00:13:32   that's part of the equation for sure. That's also probably what they tell China, right?

00:13:36   It's like, oh no, no, it's the taxes. That's what it is. It's the taxes.

00:13:40   But that makes more sense to me because when we were talking about that report a while

00:13:43   back of like the, like what they're going to likely be doing, I was saying that it seemed

00:13:49   strange to me to like, it still be Foxconn, like still be the same companies you've been

00:13:53   using. If the idea was you were going to like diversify your business, but maybe it's

00:14:00   not so much that as it is diversifying the revenue of the company a bit more. So interesting.

00:14:08   Yeah. Good. Thanks, Gaurav.

00:14:11   And so also some follow up on data and ads. We were talking about that in the, in last

00:14:18   week's Ask Upgrade question. Adrian wrote in, Adrian, sorry, wrote in with just some

00:14:23   thoughts on on-device processing for us to consider. Adrian says, I think the question

00:14:29   about on-device processing is complicated, especially because we don't know exactly what

00:14:34   Apple means by on-device. It could be a gradient from no data collected at all by Apple to

00:14:40   either raw or processed data all the way to collecting some data, like processing on device,

00:14:46   sending it away or sending it back. Because you can only process data on device, but then

00:14:51   upload the results back to Apple servers. And to this, there is a component of Apple whose

00:14:55   business is ad services, not as large as Google for sure. I think Apple should clarify more

00:15:00   clearly. Do you feel like you fully understand, like when Apple say on-device, they mean it

00:15:06   is 100% on-device never leaves or what? I read it as the, the model is on the device

00:15:15   and the machine learning model runs on your device. So it's not sending your data to be

00:15:21   analyzed on Apple server and then the information returned to you. Instead, your data stays

00:15:27   on the device. Now, I agree it could be read as nothing leaves your device, but what's,

00:15:35   what's actually happening is the data is being processed on your device and the results could

00:15:41   potentially be stored in the cloud, right? Or sent to Apple servers. And in some cases,

00:15:47   they may indeed be doing that. It's also possible that they're, you know, they're processing

00:15:52   the data. And then we have another piece of feedback here that's like, it's local processing,

00:15:56   but then it uses that to request specific information from a web service, right? Which

00:16:04   is not the same as sending them your data and having them build a profile of you up

00:16:09   in the cloud. Instead, what happens is it's personalizing you on your device and then

00:16:14   asking for the right ad or whatever to be, to be sent to you, which is not quite the

00:16:20   same, but it's also not like this Mac is an island or this iPhone is an island and it's

00:16:25   not no data ever leaves it. Like that's not what's going on necessarily. Right. Cause

00:16:29   like, you know, they say Siri is on device, right? But it can't all be like, if you want

00:16:35   the sports, my iPhone doesn't just know what the sports score is. Right. Yeah. It's, it's

00:16:40   you querying data, querying data sources out there, but it's doing it after having processed

00:16:44   your command on device to then go and do that. And this is like, this is what we went into

00:16:50   last time is that there are a lot of different ways to consider on device as a pro or a con.

00:16:57   And yeah, Apple, I mean, Apple is using a lot of this as marketing and then there's

00:17:01   this question of sort of like, well, what, what do they actually use it for? And, um,

00:17:06   I honestly, I feel like Apple just needs to be better at disclosing it. I think that generally

00:17:10   they do, they are right. I mean, they're, they're, they're, they're not trying to, to

00:17:16   pull one over on you when they say that they value privacy. I do genuinely believe that,

00:17:21   but I think that there are probably areas within Apple where there needs to be more

00:17:25   disclosure.

00:17:26   Uh, and we also had somebody write in and somebody, an anonymous individual,

00:17:32   Oh, is this a Mike a secret?

00:17:34   I wouldn't call this no, cause they're just quoting me something from something which

00:17:37   is publicly available on the web. Okay. Um, from Apple's ads policy, it says we may use

00:17:44   local on device processing to select which ad to display using information stored on

00:17:49   your device, such as the apps you frequently open. So this was a thing we were talking

00:17:54   about last time and it's the thing that Apple does actually do. Like we were wondering like,

00:17:59   you know, do they or could they target ads based on the apps that I use? Yes, they 100%

00:18:05   can and do in fact, which I don't think is good.

00:18:09   And do it locally on your device so that your device doesn't say, here are all my apps,

00:18:16   uh, send me an ad. Your device looks at your behavior and says, um, I would like this ad,

00:18:24   please, uh, or an ad in this category, please, and do it that way. So it's sort of like your

00:18:28   device is doing that. It's a little bit different.

00:18:31   Which if you ask me like in some ways kind of worse, bear with me here, because what

00:18:36   Apple is doing is this is still using your usage data to target ads at you. And then

00:18:44   also saying that it's fundamentally wrong for anybody else to do.

00:18:48   Well what they, what they say is it's fundamentally wrong. This is the, goes back to the classic

00:18:52   example, which is like, if it's a first party, it's fine. So Apple considers itself to be

00:18:56   the only party. Right. Which is just a, is flawed. That assumption

00:19:01   is flawed. Right. So, so Apple doesn't, Apple is, it,

00:19:07   it since it has the app store, it has the app data and its first party and therefore

00:19:10   it's okay. Whereas Facebook does not have that app data. And you know, when you share

00:19:15   things with a, another party, then it's different, but what's the party, right? Is that, cause

00:19:20   I would say that like, it should be the app store, not my entire iPhone. Right. Right.

00:19:29   I feel like the app store, knowing about things I have bought on the app store and searches

00:19:34   I have made on the app store and using that data to show me more apps, that feels fine.

00:19:41   But Apple using the information about the apps that I open to serve me ads on the app

00:19:49   store, that feels like an overreach. Yeah. We heard from somebody else who said

00:19:53   that this Apple monitoring, uh, if you do the telemetry approval, basically setting

00:20:00   that that is giving it explicit approval for Apple to receive the information about what

00:20:06   apps you're using and how long you're using them and things like that. I'm unclear cause

00:20:10   this is, we may also use, I'm unclear whether that is controlled by this, that switch or

00:20:15   whether there is another flow that's happening here, but you're right. This is apps you frequently

00:20:20   open and, and presumably the length of time you spend in apps. Right. Because that's the,

00:20:26   that's the magic formula. And only Apple has access to that because they're the platform

00:20:31   owners so they can see every tap and they can also, um, using, I mean they use it, it's

00:20:36   exposed in screen time, right? They know how long you're in every app too. And so they

00:20:40   know a lot about you and what games you're playing and what productivity apps you're

00:20:44   using and you know, whatever else you're doing. And, and uh, so yeah, this is, this is the,

00:20:50   I think, I think we're not necessarily saying this is wrong. I think what we're saying is

00:20:55   that disclosure is good and also that as a caveat emptor kind of thing, um, just because

00:21:04   it's happening on device doesn't, on device isn't a panacea. On device does not mean you're

00:21:11   not being profiled and watched and your behavioral data is not being used to generate content

00:21:18   that is targeted on you.

00:21:19   What I think is wrong is that Apple makes such a big thing about third parties, like

00:21:29   an other, like, you know, they've, they've, app tracking transparency to like completely

00:21:36   hollow out the advertising market for all of these different apps and services, but

00:21:42   they kind of just get to do whatever they want. Like they could just build the rules

00:21:45   around however they want them to be built and no one can argue with it because they

00:21:48   control the platform and have the app store and have in app purchases and then make the

00:21:53   rules to make everyone use that system. Like, I don't like the playing field that's being

00:21:58   created and I think it's fair, but your mileage will vary on that one.

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00:23:53   Saddle on up. It's time for a room around up. Yeehaw. The Wall Street Journal has published

00:23:59   a report of what it is expecting from Apple's upcoming headset. It treads a lot of ground

00:24:06   that we have heard before in general. Like again, but like this stuff can be important.

00:24:11   We're going to talk about a few things that they've specifically reiterated from reporting

00:24:16   from Mark Gurman and others. But in general, the article is like it's going to cost this,

00:24:20   it's going to be a battery pack, the whole nine yards that we're aware of. One of the

00:24:25   things that they talk about is that while Apple is still planning to announce the headset

00:24:29   at WWDC and of course devote a significant portion of the sessions at the conference

00:24:34   to the headset and its operating system, production of the device is still suffering from manufacturing

00:24:39   delays and is now expected to begin in September, which is very late for selling it this year.

00:24:47   Yeah. Yeah, very much. So I would not be surprised if even when this

00:24:53   thing goes on sale that it might be one of those things that's hard to get for a while.

00:24:58   I think it's going to be very limited numbers, even in the fact that it's already going to

00:25:02   be limited, you know, like it's limited to start. And if they're producing it this late

00:25:06   in the day, it could be even more so. The Wall Street Journal reiterates what Mark Gurman

00:25:13   has been saying that the expectation of the device is to be positioned kind of publicly

00:25:19   around FaceTime, fitness and gaming. So probably Fitness Plus, probably Apple Arcade. And they

00:25:28   have been the core use cases for this iteration of the hardware, like from Apple. And then,

00:25:35   you know, building the whole platform, people can do whatever they want with it. I think

00:25:39   this is, I find this very encouraging, Jason, because if someone said to me, Mike, you have

00:25:47   the ability to market this device however you want, how would you do it? I would do

00:25:52   it around FaceTime, fitness and gaming. Anyone who's had any experience with VR will tell

00:26:01   you that these are the three areas where it's currently most compelling. And I was concerned

00:26:06   that they weren't going to focus on that, like especially around gaming. I'm still intrigued

00:26:10   to see what their story is. But if this is where they are going with it, I think has

00:26:14   the best chance of being something that people could conceive of, whether they have or haven't

00:26:19   tried VR before. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. There's not a lot new in this report at all,

00:26:25   but it is the Wall Street Journal, which funny, I mean, Bloomberg is a very important reputable

00:26:30   asterisk, right? But like generally reputable business reporting organization, but it's

00:26:38   not the Wall Street Journal, right? And so to get the journal involved here, it definitely

00:26:43   carries more weight or to have them essentially reiterate Mark Gurman's reporting also shows

00:26:50   that there's nothing else there. Mark Gurman did it. He nailed it. He got it. And the journal's

00:26:55   like, yup, that's what it is, which is kind of funny to see Mark definitely leading the

00:26:59   way there. I have to say, because it's the journal and because they've got a lot of,

00:27:06   you know, according to people familiar with the matter and all of that, I do wonder if

00:27:13   this is Apple doing some expectation setting, especially since they talk about at the very

00:27:22   head of the article, there's a lot of talk about how this product isn't going to ship

00:27:25   in volume and there are other products coming. And like the early part of the article felt

00:27:32   very much like, I can't say whether Apple was directly involved in having the journal

00:27:36   do this story or not, but it really feels like the beginning of this article is trying

00:27:41   to set proper expectations for this product in advance of it being announced. And so if

00:27:47   it's not, and we said this about some of Mark Gurman's reporting too, if it's not, it's

00:27:50   doing Apple's job for it anyway, because they need to set expectations that this is not

00:27:55   something that everybody's going to want at first. And it's going to be, you know, mostly

00:28:00   for developers and really, you know, specific kind of use cases, because it's going to cost

00:28:04   $3,000 and it's going to be all of that. So it has that feel to me of very useful for

00:28:12   Apple expectation setting, because they don't want people to be surprised thinking this

00:28:16   product is going to be the thing they're going to rush out and buy and comparable to other

00:28:22   stuff that is in this area. And by doing it this far in advance, one of the advantages

00:28:26   also is everybody who is going to be covering that event is already going to have the bar

00:28:31   set for them. And so people, it's less likely that people are going to get misled by poorly

00:28:37   informed sources who are like, "I'm really excited to see this. We're all going to rush

00:28:41   out and buy it." And instead, they're going to be like, "Don't get too excited. This isn't

00:28:45   going to come out until the end of the year at the earliest. And it's very expensive.

00:28:50   And it's really just the start of something that's bigger." Like that serves Apple a lot

00:28:53   better to not have it be a disappointment because people's expectations were unrealistic

00:28:59   given what we know this product to be now. However, it is interesting to also see the

00:29:05   other side of it, which is the hype that is in this article and some other places that

00:29:11   is, but it's also really good.

00:29:13   Yes. So they say the capabilities are expected to "far exceed those of competitors offering

00:29:21   'greater levels of performance and immersion.'"

00:29:25   Yeah. And the former Oculus guy, Palmer Luckey, who is not my favorite person, but he did

00:29:32   a tweet recently that basically said, "The Apple headset is so good." It's like, which

00:29:39   spawned, this was yesterday, it spawned, obviously, thousands of articles that tried to make an

00:29:46   article out of a single tweet with no additional information. I always laugh when I see that

00:29:51   but my point is, that is the other narrative that is forming here now that I see, which

00:29:57   is don't get your hopes up because it's going to be expensive and you're probably not going

00:30:01   to want to buy it and it's not going to come out for a while, but it's the future. And

00:30:05   there are other versions coming that are going to be more affordable. The Journal says that

00:30:09   the makers of this version are going to build a, they're already working on the next version

00:30:15   of the high-end headset, but that Foxconn is also going to be manufacturing a more affordable

00:30:22   headset based on this platform. So that's all in there, right? Plus you get this other

00:30:27   piece which is, but also it's very impressive. Like it is way better than even the high-end

00:30:34   meta headset and that, honestly, that is one of the ways that Apple gets away with this

00:30:39   $3,000 product that's going to ship in low volumes, which is what this story repeats

00:30:44   and again, I think that's useful for Apple to say low volumes, low volumes, not expecting

00:30:48   this to be a hit, it's just a starting point, is the, you know, being able to say, but you

00:30:56   can see the future here. This is the best that's ever, if they can make it so it's,

00:31:00   this is the best headset that's ever been made. It does things that VR products have

00:31:03   never been able to do at this level before. It totally changes the game. This is what

00:31:08   VR and AR are going to be like in the future. The future starts now, now that Apple is here.

00:31:14   Everything before is a prologue. Everybody else is going to have to catch up to Apple's

00:31:18   level. If they can impress people like that with the hardware, that'll give them some

00:31:24   leeway with the fact that it's expensive and not available for a while and let them sort

00:31:30   of tout the future with this product, which would serve them well, I think.

00:31:36   Do you think Paul Malucki actually saw it? I don't know. I mean, I think if anybody could

00:31:42   have seen it, I think it's plausible that he saw it. He, but I don't believe a word he

00:31:46   says, but I think it's, I'm fascinated because yeah, and he may be, you know, trolling, right?

00:31:54   But and yet I look at that and I think this is part of what's going on right now. Whether,

00:31:59   whether he believes it or not, whether he saw it or not, it feels very much like it's

00:32:03   part of what's going on right now is we are in the hype cycle about the technology that

00:32:09   Apple is building here. And I was struck by the fact that he tweeted that out at around

00:32:17   the same time that the Wall Street Journal came out with their story that said, "It far

00:32:22   exceeds the capabilities of its competitors." I'm like, okay, well, something is going on

00:32:27   here, whether he's really a part of it or he's trying to parody it or insert himself

00:32:31   in it or whatever it is, it's all part of this same drift that I'm starting to see now,

00:32:35   which is, you know, like I said, phase two of this is Apple, you know, Apple, Apple getting

00:32:42   by on, but we're changing the world, right? It's yes, it's very expensive right now, but

00:32:47   it's going to be the best. Which it's, I don't know. I don't know if it's real. I don't know

00:32:53   if any of it is real, obviously, right? Cause it doesn't exist yet, but it does feel like

00:32:57   we're entering, I just, listeners just pay attention to the hype cycle and note, note

00:33:02   the little, like it's not playing one note, right? There's a few notes out there. There's

00:33:07   the don't get your hopes up investors. It's not going to sell millions of units out of

00:33:11   the gate, but also watch what we do. It's going to be very impressive. Like that's what's

00:33:16   going on out there right now. I just, the Palmer lucky thing, honestly, the thing that

00:33:20   amuses me the most other than its positioning similar to the Wall Street Journal story is,

00:33:26   I just laugh because I was searching for the Wall Street Journal story and I found a thousand

00:33:31   crappy news articles that crafted an entire narrative around literally one sentence from

00:33:36   one dude on Twitter. Amazing world we live in.

00:33:39   Mark Gurman is reporting that Apple has increased internal testing of their M3 chips, even as

00:33:46   they're getting ready to launch more M2 Macs. Once again, Mark, we spoke about how he did

00:33:51   this before. Mark Gurman has discovered this information from Apple having tested these

00:33:57   chips on third party apps as part of the validation testing for these chips. So there have been

00:34:02   people that have used it. Like people have used an M3 Mac or a Mac with M3 chip in them

00:34:11   inside of Apple on a third party app. Those apps, no, because they have logs. So the chip

00:34:18   is expected to be that the chip that Mark has found is expected to be an M3 Pro. And

00:34:25   it quote, at least one version in testing has 12 CPU cores, 18 graphics cores and 36

00:34:31   gigabytes of memory. And it's six high performance cores, six efficiency cores or P and E cores

00:34:37   as we know them around here. This compares to the eight CPU cores in the M1 Pro and 10

00:34:44   cores in the M2 Pro. So it continues that line. The M1 Pro had 14 GPU, M2 Pro had 16

00:34:51   GPU and also that 36 gigabytes of RAM is a four gigabyte increase on what the M2 Pro

00:34:58   could be. Quote from Mark, if the M3 Macs were to get a similar gain as the M2 Macs

00:35:04   got compared to the M1, that would mean Apple's next high end MacBook Pro chip could come

00:35:08   up to 14 CPU cores and a whopping 40 graphics cores. By the way, I really enjoy Mark in

00:35:14   power on because he's saying says things like whopping, which I don't think he would put

00:35:19   in an actual like one of the official ones. Yeah, I don't think he'd say whopping. I appreciate

00:35:26   whopping. Continuing speculating even farther, it could mean the M3 Ultra could top out with

00:35:31   28 CPU cores and sport one in 80 graphics cores from a 64 core limit in the M1 Ultra.

00:35:38   And all of this, if they are actually going this route and if Mark's extrapolating can

00:35:42   be believed, this is because of the three nanometer process change. So they can fit

00:35:49   all of this in because they have in a very simplified way of saying this more stuff they

00:35:55   can fit inside of the same size. Yeah, so this is basically nothing really surprising,

00:36:01   right? It's the progression. What makes an M3 more than an M2 in part is going to be

00:36:05   more. More cores. I mean, I'm sure that those cores are more advanced cores, right? The CPU

00:36:12   cores and the GPU cores. I'm sure there's other details that are going to be interesting

00:36:16   about the M3 and the M3 Pro, but also it's more, right? And every, you know, the cores

00:36:22   are faster, but there are also more cores even as a base. And then in the, if they're

00:36:28   doing the die shrink, then it's right that they benefit from that because everything

00:36:32   is on the smaller process. You could have the same amount of high performance cores,

00:36:36   but they could be more powerful as well. So it's just very interesting. That's true. So

00:36:42   I think this is interesting too, because he's using, you know, some third party developers'

00:36:48   logs who are squawking on this or revealing what these chips are. But also that it's the

00:36:57   Pro models. And I wonder, because the M3, because he talks about this being like end

00:37:01   of this year, early next year, but like this is the Pro chip, right? This is not the M3

00:37:05   chip. This is the M3 Pro chip. It's different. I would imagine we're going to see the M3

00:37:09   chip before we see the M3 Pro chip. And I know Marc has reported on that before, but

00:37:14   this is interesting because it's more some telemetry that suggests that these are, you

00:37:21   know, that the Pro chips are going to be configured like this. So it's just another little addition

00:37:25   to the palette of what we already know about M3.

00:37:28   All right, moving on, Apple has lost another key executive in the Apple TV+ division. Pete

00:37:36   Distad has departed the company, quote from Bloomberg. In his current role, Distad oversees

00:37:43   the business and operations side of the Apple TV app and the TV+ streaming service. His

00:37:49   division negotiated deals with Major League Soccer and Major League Baseball and turned

00:37:53   the Apple TV set-top box into a hub for video content, both from inside and outside the

00:37:59   company.

00:38:00   Distad's departure follows Peter Stern and Michael Abbott, who both had key roles at

00:38:05   the company and left recently. Stern was Distad's boss and Abbott oversaw all of the cloud services.

00:38:11   And you may think, why are we bothering to talk about this? There's two reasons. One,

00:38:15   that and like the person who oversaw the sports stuff is leaving. That's interesting. But

00:38:19   for me, the real key of the story is where this continues. So Peter Stern and Michael

00:38:26   Abbott, right? So Michael Abbott was in charge of cloud services. He is now joining General

00:38:33   Motors to oversee the in-vehicle software plans that they have post-car play.

00:38:41   Boo.

00:38:42   It's perfect. I love it. Moving forward, Apple is going to be splitting the role that

00:38:50   Distad had in half. Jim DiLorenzo will head up a new sports division and they're looking

00:38:55   for a replacement for the TV side of the business. But this is the like business part of TV+.

00:39:01   The content part remains the same, still handled by Jamie Ehrlich and Zach van Erberg.

00:39:07   Yeah. Down in Santa Monica or wherever they are.

00:39:10   I don't know. The way I think Mark Gurman reported this in his newsletter was something

00:39:15   like something's going on. And I mean, maybe not. Maybe. Part of me wonders if there's

00:39:22   like a succession like thing going on where everybody is jockeying for position around

00:39:26   Eddy Cue. I don't know. But also I have to be honest, the way this guy's role is described

00:39:36   kind of doesn't make any sense to me because they are going to have this guy, Jim DiLorenzo,

00:39:45   heading up their new sports division. And then they're going to have somebody as the

00:39:49   exec who's in charge of the TV side of the business, which to me makes more sense. But

00:39:57   I don't, I mean, as we've said many times about executives leaving Apple, very hard

00:40:02   to tell from the outside what it means. Like we don't know enough about the way it's structured

00:40:05   on the inside. We don't know their reasons for leaving. Sometimes people leave Apple

00:40:09   because they're fired. Sometimes people leave Apple because they are bored and want a new

00:40:12   challenge. Sometimes they've got so much money that they just don't need to stay and work

00:40:17   the hours or work the grind. They have family issues. They've got other personal issues.

00:40:21   Who knows? But I was surprised that, you know, yeah, I mean that it's his division negotiated

00:40:28   deals, but like the fact that it's the business and operations side of the TV app and the

00:40:32   TV plus streaming service and the result is going to be, they're just going to put somebody

00:40:35   in charge of sports and somebody inside of the TV part of the business. Yeah. Kind of

00:40:40   makes sense. It feels a little bit like they're just not, this guy was a higher level of management

00:40:45   that is leaving and they don't need to replace him because they've got people in place or

00:40:49   they've got at least the one person for sports in place and then they'll find another person

00:40:54   at a lower level. Sort of makes sense. I don't know.

00:40:58   What this feels like to me is that like this dad's been there for long enough potentially

00:41:02   where sports didn't even exist. And so then when I wanted to do sports, they went to this

00:41:08   dad because he was already handling the business and operations side and they brought in Jim

00:41:13   DiLorenzo to do that and now he's just going to report up to Eddie or whoever. Yeah. But

00:41:18   it's like this is the, you know, as the service grows, it's like, well realistically it would

00:41:22   be better to have multiple people do this, but how do we take this away from the guy

00:41:26   who's already doing it? Right? Like that's almost like a demotion for them. So now they

00:41:30   left. It's like, great. Now we can split this in half and we can have a more logical reporting

00:41:36   structure as this, these two parts of the business continue to grow. I think so.

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00:43:47   So out of nowhere last Tuesday, Apple announced that both Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro will

00:43:55   be coming to the iPad. These long standing Mac professional apps for video and audio

00:44:02   creation. These are apps that me and you use. They are apps that me and you especially have

00:44:09   been calling on Apple to release for years. There has been absolutely zero sign of them

00:44:16   and then all of a sudden, here they are.

00:44:18   Here they are. Well, they'll be out next week, right?

00:44:22   Yes.

00:44:23   But they announced them. Yeah. How about that? How about that? On one level, I want to celebrate

00:44:30   and on another level, I want to say, what took them so long? Right? It's a little bit

00:44:35   like saying, do we praise them for replacing the butterfly keyboard or do we point out

00:44:40   that it's been a long time and they didn't replace it until now and that they're rectifying

00:44:43   their own mistake?

00:44:44   This is not quite like that, but it's similar where they announced Pro iPad hardware a very

00:44:49   long time ago and I think the real turning point was in 2018, I think, when they did

00:44:55   the new iPad Pro design and they pointed out that it was faster than more than 90% of PC

00:45:00   laptops sold in the previous year or that year or whatever their stat was and that was

00:45:05   the beginning of the real narrative of, okay, the iPad is powerful, but what does it do?

00:45:10   The iPad Pro. And one of the questions was how committed is Apple to this as a concept

00:45:16   of a professional level? I mean, because you could argue, yes, Apple uses Pro to mean lots

00:45:22   of things that aren't used by professionals, but the iPad Pro, it was always sort of like

00:45:26   boasting about how powerful it was and that it really was a professional tool and there

00:45:30   was this impression that Apple really believed in the iPad as the future and yet never committed

00:45:36   its own Pro apps to its platform.

00:45:39   And I feel like the ultimate moment, although I also felt like I had already been broken

00:45:44   by the time I wrote this, was when the M2 iPad Pro came out and in order to show off

00:45:50   its processing prowess, they demoed DaVinci Resolve. I mean, DaVinci Resolve is great

00:45:56   and people love it and it gets used all the time and it's fine and all, but it's also

00:45:59   like literally, I can think of another product you could demo for video editing on the iPad,

00:46:06   but it doesn't exist and it's your own product. Who's that vendor who's failing to support

00:46:11   the iPad as a professional platform? Oh, right. It's Apple itself.

00:46:15   Yeah. And similarly with like their marketing, right? So much focused around like most of

00:46:19   their products, video and audio creation as being like a key part of the product, but

00:46:24   the video and audio creation tools that Apple made, make, continue to make, weren't available.

00:46:32   And I'm not saying that like, it's the only definition of the platform and I'm not saying

00:46:35   they had to do it at all. And I'm not, what I'm saying is I feel like Apple for years

00:46:41   was talking the talk, but not walking the walk. That they, they were like, no, no, no,

00:46:46   it is professional power in an iPad. And the iPad is great. It's got all this iPad pro

00:46:51   you spend a lot of money you get, but you get all this power and isn't it amazing. And

00:46:55   yet clearly with an Apple, it was not a priority because they didn't, they didn't prioritize

00:47:03   these apps. They just didn't, obviously I don't, I do not believe it's been seven years

00:47:08   of hard work to get these apps to exist. Right. I don't believe that. I, I, I'm sorry. They,

00:47:14   I don't know what changed and I don't know whether this was a long gestating product

00:47:17   and they really have been working on it for four or five years and it took that long.

00:47:21   But even then I would say they could have done it faster if they had prioritized it

00:47:26   and if it mattered truly that much to them, but they're here now or will be here shortly.

00:47:33   And that's, that's great. I mean, they look great. There are some quirks, but they look

00:47:37   great. I just, uh, the, the, this is my long version of a finally, but, but like, yeah,

00:47:43   I mean, finally, like I can, I can applaud, I'll give you a golf clap for this one, but

00:47:47   at the same time, like I'm glad they're here. And I think it does send a message about Apple

00:47:53   feeling positive about what the iPad pro is for, but at the same time, like it's a real

00:47:57   shame that it took until 2023 for final cut pro and logic pro to appear on the iPad should

00:48:06   have been, should have been like, like I said, it should have been 2020 should have been

00:48:10   should really should have been 2018 when they launched that new iPad pro and boasted about

00:48:14   its speed. But we have spent, this is the story of the iPad recently is we've spent

00:48:18   the last five years ish, um, talking about how it's so capable in terms of its hardware,

00:48:25   but what about its software? And this has been part of it.

00:48:28   Talking about like that, that I've probably jumped in the gun a little bit in our conversation,

00:48:32   but I think where that is exemplified for me the most of like the finally, like it took

00:48:37   them so long kind of thing. I think the fact that it has taken so long and final cut pro

00:48:43   isn't as fully featured as logic is in like, what does she say is comparable to the Mac

00:48:51   versions? It seems like that is the frustration for me. So that the key, this is the key thing

00:48:56   that I got from your article, which I didn't see anywhere until you'd written it, which

00:48:59   was logic, the logic pro version on the iPad and the Mac, you can just pass off a file

00:49:07   between the other apparently and it will work with some asterisks like plugins and that

00:49:14   kind of stuff. Right, right. You have to have the plugins on both platforms. Not every plugin

00:49:18   maker for Mac has those plugins available on the iPad. And if they're not there, just

00:49:22   like if you were on a different Mac that didn't have those plugins, the plugins won't be available,

00:49:26   but you can save a logic project on a Mac and open it on an iPad and it opens and then

00:49:31   you can edit it on the iPad and then save it and then open it on the Mac and it opens

00:49:35   and it's fine, right? Like they go, they are round tripping as they say. And final cut,

00:49:42   you can't, you can't do that. It is very much like the old, you can take a GarageBand file

00:49:47   on the iPad and open it in logic on the Mac or in GarageBand on the Mac, but you can't

00:49:52   go back the other direction. It's a one way trip. So you can create your little, I mean,

00:49:57   I don't want to demean it too much, but it has a little bit of a whiff of you can create

00:50:00   your little baby project on the iPad, but once it's on the Mac, once it's graduated to the

00:50:06   Mac, it can't ever go back. It's for starters, not for finishers. And that's unfortunate.

00:50:10   I understand it. Like I was listening to Accidental Tech Podcast and John Sircusa, I found his

00:50:18   analysis a little bit odd because he seemed to be saying things like, why would you leave

00:50:22   that feature out of the iPad version and therefore by create this and compatibility? And I don't

00:50:27   view it that way. I think they built this stuff from, I don't, my suspicion is that

00:50:35   this is not a port of the Mac version of Final Cut Pro, right? My suspicion is that although

00:50:39   there's probably code that is shared, that they had to rebuild Final Cut Pro in order

00:50:44   to work it, work it on the iPad and that there was certain stuff that they're like, we don't,

00:50:49   we can't do that yet, or we're not ready to do that yet. We just didn't have time. And

00:50:53   they said, well, we're going to ship it now. But regardless of the reason, the fact is,

00:50:59   yeah, there are things that the, there are new features that are in this that presumably

00:51:02   will also be in a Final Cut Pro update later this month on the Mac side, which is kind

00:51:07   of funny, right? But they're, they're pointing those out. I don't think it's going to be

00:51:11   features that don't ever come to the Mac. I really think that they're going to be in

00:51:14   sync from now. And I think they will try to add all the features that are not currently

00:51:17   on the iPad to the Mac. But it is unfortunate that it's not as fully developed as the logic

00:51:23   Mac and iPad versions are in terms of round tripping. And then the other thing that really

00:51:28   bugs me as somebody who uses Final Cut and doesn't use a lot of the super high-end fancy

00:51:32   features is like, are they using the lack of existence of those features as a reason

00:51:40   why it doesn't do round tripping or is it an excuse? Because like, my projects are really

00:51:45   simple. Why can't they do round tripping? And there's, you know, I don't have an answer

00:51:51   for that, but it bugs me because, so I'm not sure. Maybe they're just not file format compatible

00:51:58   that for whatever reason they just, they can't do that yet. So it's an import. And, you know,

00:52:03   for all I know, this is a, you know, I just don't know. I don't know quite what the rationale

00:52:08   is. Apple isn't really saying, but I do wonder about that because it means that the Final

00:52:13   Cut story is not as clear as the logic story. And yeah, to your point, after all this time,

00:52:18   we can say, send up the confetti, the pro apps are finally here, but there's a really

00:52:22   big footnote, which is that this Final Cut is not fully featured. It's, I think very

00:52:28   impressive and has lots and lots and lots of features, but as a Final Cut Pro, it's

00:52:36   lesser than the Mac version and lacks a level of compatibility with a one-way import. And

00:52:43   that's, that means it's a second class app, at least for now, which is, it's too bad.

00:52:49   As impressive as it is, like I want to separate here. There's the sort of like comparing it

00:52:54   to the Mac version and being disappointed that it doesn't measure up is not the same

00:52:58   as saying it's not good. Cause I actually am very impressed by it, at least the demos

00:53:02   of it that I've seen. I haven't had my hands on it. I can't wait to do that. But those

00:53:07   are two separate issues, but I do think that it's relevant that, that this version just,

00:53:13   I think they've just wanted to release them and get them out there and do it simultaneously.

00:53:19   And the, you know, the Final Cut version just didn't get across the finish line in terms

00:53:23   of that kind of compatibility. It's too bad.

00:53:25   - But like, this is the point now I was driving towards, which was by leaving it as long as

00:53:30   they have, I think it makes it more glaring because...

00:53:33   - Sure.

00:53:34   - They're also not, and I think rightly so, they are not pitching these as like Final

00:53:42   Cut for iPad. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's not pitched as like, Hey, this is

00:53:49   the companion or lesser than version.

00:53:53   - No, to their credit, they're not saying these are baby versions. But they are, but

00:53:57   one of them is sort of, and that's too bad. And you're right. It would be different if

00:54:02   it was five years ago when they said, and we're introducing Final Cut and Logic for

00:54:07   iPad. They're not all the way there yet, but we're going to keep adding and they're going

00:54:09   to reach parody eventually, we promise. But they didn't do that. They just did nothing

00:54:14   or they were silent, nothing above the waterline for five years. And now, and now they put

00:54:19   them out and it's still not quite all the way there yet.

00:54:21   Again, I don't want to overstate it, but like it is disappointing if you're somebody who

00:54:26   is a Final Cut user who expected to be able to go back and forth, or that was the whole

00:54:30   thing. I mean, for a lot of people, I had this with Logic, right? Which is, I had Logic

00:54:35   on my Mac and Fairlight on my iPad. And the biggest problem with that is once I started

00:54:39   a project on one, I couldn't take it to the other. And there are times, not a lot of times,

00:54:45   usually I stay on one device for the whole process, but there are times when I'm traveling

00:54:49   or whatever, and I have to offload or I'm traveling and I come back and I want to now

00:54:54   pick it up on the Mac. And not having the ability to do that is really annoying, right?

00:55:01   That you're locked into this one device. And more than that, once you commit to starting

00:55:06   in one place, you're limiting what your capability is after that. It's like, if I start this

00:55:11   project on my Mac in Final Cut and I've got a trip coming up, I know I can't do it on

00:55:17   the iPad or I will have to bring a laptop or I can't work on it. And that's, it just,

00:55:23   it hangs over you. And I think it's unfortunate.

00:55:27   Yeah, you know, but I do go back and ask myself the same question of like realistically how

00:55:33   big of a problem this is. And like realistically, probably not. Right? Like my assumption is

00:55:38   the majority of Final Cut Mac users are going to keep using the Mac version, but now there

00:55:43   is a pro level iPad app from Apple for video. Like that's the headline.

00:55:54   Right, right. But not, and it imports into the Mac version so you could start your projects

00:55:59   there.

00:56:00   But realistically, I mean, that's nice, right? Like, but realistically for this thing to

00:56:05   be actually true, both of these, to be true to what they should be, that shouldn't have

00:56:12   to be a prerequisite that like, this is only good if you can eventually move it to the

00:56:19   Mac, right? Like you should be able to start to finish, have a professional grade project

00:56:26   on the iPad. Like that should be the goal.

00:56:29   Sure. I guess the problem is that if you're going to call it Final Cut Pro and it does,

00:56:33   and it can only go one way, that you're, you're putting a barrier in terms of portability.

00:56:40   And one of the ideas here is that it's portability, right? One of the ideas here is I can take

00:56:44   it to an iPad and continue working and you can't do that. And that, that is a barrier.

00:56:48   You're right. It's not, it's not the only use case. It is a use case. It's, but you're

00:56:53   right. The other use case is you're just working on these projects on the iPad and that's where

00:56:58   you start. And maybe that's where you finish and that's fine, right? Like that's great.

00:57:03   But because these are these brand names, I think there's at least some level of expectation

00:57:07   that you might want to have flexibility and Apple's built in one way flexibility Final

00:57:11   Cut and it's two way flexibility for Logic. And it's just, it's a difference. It's notable.

00:57:15   I've definitely been in those situations with Logic and Ferrite in the past where I've realized

00:57:21   that I'm locking myself into one platform and it's better if you have the freedom. It's

00:57:26   better if you have the flexibility, but what they, but your point also gets at something

00:57:30   that I want to say, which is as far as I can tell, like these aren't apps where it's, you

00:57:36   get started here and then take it to the Mac for the, for the finishing touches and the

00:57:40   real work begins there, right? That's not what they're doing here. These apps should

00:57:44   be able to be used to their fullest just on the iPad and produce professional level output,

00:57:52   right? Like you should be able to export a project from Final Cut on an iPad and choose

00:57:58   what encoding it does for the output and you know, to a detail and it will transcode it

00:58:04   and save it and like all the stuff that Final Cut does without having, oh well, but the

00:58:09   last mile, you've got to go back to the Mac. That's not the intent here with these apps.

00:58:14   Which I think is coming from a good place, but that is a, there is a missing puzzle piece,

00:58:21   which only on Final Cut. So like we've spoken about that. So we'll park that a second for

00:58:25   Logic. Fantastic. You did it right? Like again, we haven't tried it, but like on the face

00:58:32   of it, you did it. You made a version of Logic for the iPad, which is fully featured it seems

00:58:39   and offers the ability for me to be able to move these files backwards and forwards. Like

00:58:45   that one. Fantastic. I'm really intrigued to see what it would be like to edit a podcast

00:58:52   on Logic on the iPad. Like I have no idea. We don't even really know if it's possible,

00:58:57   but we expect so. So I've spent like six or seven years now editing podcasts on Fairite

00:59:03   using the Apple Pencil on the iPad. It's a great experience. I, you know, the truth is

00:59:12   I look forward to trying it out, but I can't imagine that I'm going to abandon Fairite

00:59:17   for Logic. And the reason is Logic's a music app. Fairite is actually made to edit podcasts.

00:59:24   Logic is a music app. I'm skeptical. Some of the stuff, I'll put it this way. Some of

00:59:28   the stuff I'm going to look at when I review this is going to be beyond the, you can use

00:59:34   it with your fingers kind of approach. Because what Apple is basically saying in their marketing

00:59:40   is you can use it with your fingers. And if you put it in a case, you can use it with

00:59:43   a keyboard and it's got all the keyboard shortcuts. What I didn't hear and what I don't see in

00:59:48   a lot of the videos that they've done is the stuff that actually has made it a quantum

00:59:53   leap in terms of usability on the iPad when I'm using Fairite, which is things like multi-touch

00:59:58   gestures, the two finger down play/pause. In those Apple videos, there's an awful lot

01:00:04   of reaching all the way up with your right hand to the upper left hand corner of the

01:00:08   screen to tap, covering the screen with your arm, to tap pause or play. Let me tell you,

01:00:14   that's old real fast. So what did they do? So my concern is that there are invisible

01:00:22   things that show that how far behind they are with these apps. That's the way I might

01:00:27   put it is they look great. They seem to have a lot of stuff, but I will say in the early

01:00:32   days of pro apps on the iPad, they also looked great and had a lot of stuff. But over time,

01:00:37   those app developers learned that there were usability issues with the touch interface

01:00:43   that needed to be addressed. And my favorite example is two finger play/pause in Fairite,

01:00:49   where I don't want to reach up to a button on a touch screen, moving my eyes away from

01:00:55   what I'm working on in order to touch a thing way up there and then come back and work and

01:01:00   then go back up and do that. You start doing that all the time. It's really annoying. And

01:01:05   the moment where I was like, no, no, you just tap with two fingers and it plays or pauses

01:01:08   and you continue with your work. Like totally unlocked it. Similarly with a pencil, they

01:01:14   show a feature in Final Cut Pro where you're drawing, you can actually write something

01:01:18   out on the screen and it becomes a track where the actual animation of you writing it out

01:01:25   is part of the track. It's cool. It's fun. But like for me, the productivity enhancing

01:01:31   features of pencil are things like gestures, you know, down with the pencil to cut a track

01:01:37   in Fairite or bringing it across to do a mass select or a mass delete. There are things

01:01:43   like that or multi-finger swiping to do a mass select or a mass delete. And all of those

01:01:48   things make my life easier. And Apple didn't show any of them. Doesn't mean they're not

01:01:53   there. I haven't used it yet. But my concern is that what we're going to get with these

01:01:57   apps is the apps that are there functionally and there if you're using basic touch, but

01:02:02   have not learned any of those lessons that all the other apps that are trying to do pro

01:02:07   stuff on the iPad have learned over the last few years in terms of additional usability

01:02:12   and functionality that's enabled by, you know, multi-touch gestures and various pencil gestures.

01:02:19   And the fact that they didn't show you editing either of these things with a pencil, it was

01:02:24   really just the drawing on the screen with the pencil. I'm a little concerned. Maybe

01:02:30   it's all there, right? And they just, it wasn't the focus of their marketing, but the fact

01:02:34   that they didn't show it makes me a little concerned that this is going to be a case

01:02:38   where they're going to, we're going to now spend the next few years waiting for them

01:02:42   to catch up in terms of a lot of the niceties of using a professional media app on the iPad.

01:02:47   So, $5 a month rather than a multi-hundred dollar upfront purchase.

01:02:57   Yeah, you know, I got the two platonic ideal replies when this was announced on Mastodon.

01:03:08   One of them was, "How come it doesn't work with this specific model of iPad? Let's investigate

01:03:14   how many cores there are and how much RAM there is and whether there's a reason why

01:03:17   this one is not compatible. Logic isn't compatible with this one, but it is compatible with that

01:03:22   one," which takes us back to a year ago, and boy, I am not interested in that at all. And

01:03:28   the other one was, "OMG, Apple's doing subscriptions. It's the end of the world." It's fine. Like,

01:03:35   I know people hate subscriptions, but for professional apps, I feel like not only is

01:03:42   this fitting, but it's a good deal. So Final Cut costs $300. So at $50 a year, six years.

01:03:52   Two hundred dollars, $50 a year, four years for Logic. This is… and yes, they haven't

01:03:59   charged a new fee there for a while, but part of that is because of the App Store, right?

01:04:03   But like, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask people to buy a new version of Logic

01:04:09   every six years, right? Like, that seems reasonable. $50 a year for a professional application seems

01:04:16   reasonable if you are a true professional. And something that I know Federico brought

01:04:20   up on Connected last week that I think is absolutely true, which is, let's talk about

01:04:24   this for the people who can't afford to buy a $300 piece of software. For $5 a month,

01:04:30   they could work, they could see, first off, they could do a 30-day free trial, which you

01:04:33   can currently do with Apple's Pro apps anyway, but like, let's say you've got a project

01:04:37   and you're like, "Well, I need to work on this project for three months in Logic or

01:04:40   in Final Cut." Well, it's $15. It's $15. Whereas before, after the 30-day trial, you're

01:04:48   either in for $200 or $300 or you're out. So I think it's better for the apps and for

01:04:54   users who might potentially use them to be able to try them out or use them on certain

01:04:58   projects without having to come up with $300 in a lump sum. I think that that's, I mean,

01:05:05   not everybody can pay $300 for a piece of software without flinching, right? It's just

01:05:09   the truth of it. I know that a lot of our listeners maybe can, but a lot of our listeners

01:05:13   can't. And it's a high price. So taking it down to a $50 payment for a whole year or

01:05:18   a $5 payment for a month is, I think, important. But the larger issue is these are professional

01:05:25   media creation tools. $5 a month or $50 a year is a bargain. I pay $120 a year for Photoshop,

01:05:37   right? If you buy the whole Adobe suite, it is a lot of money every year. These are, they're

01:05:45   tools made for professionals to use. That's why they're there. That's why they exist.

01:05:52   A professional who is making their living at least in part from using Final Cut Pro

01:05:56   to edit video, if they can't afford $50 a month for that, are they a professional who's

01:06:03   using Final Cut? I mean, like, it is part of your job. It is the material you use to

01:06:09   make your job happen. It's perfectly reasonable. And I think in this case, as Apple has shown

01:06:14   a commitment to updating these products, as a Logic user, we get Logic updates all the

01:06:19   time. They have been updating Final Cut Pro over the years all the time. I feel like subscription

01:06:27   is actually a better fit than this really awkward, every so often when you least expect

01:06:33   it, we are going to hold your software ransom for $300. Like, what is that? That is, I remember

01:06:40   when Final Cut X came out and it was like, oh, guess it's time to pay $300, right? So

01:06:47   I just think this is better on all ways. And for people who are like directly against the

01:06:52   idea of subscription, the truth is, unless you are willing to unplug your computer from

01:06:58   software updates and take it off the internet and just use, I'm using a 20-year-old computer

01:07:04   with 20-year-old software and it all works for me. Unless you're that person who's kind

01:07:08   of a digital hermit, the truth is that you gotta update your software every so often.

01:07:14   And this is just the nature of things. This is not that disruptive in terms of the business

01:07:21   model. Like I said, $50 a year is four or six years of these products. Is it not reasonable

01:07:30   that every four or six years your key professional tool would ask you for more money? Well, for

01:07:36   two or $300, $400, whatever it is, of course it's reasonable. So now you pay it. And if

01:07:45   you're not using it, don't pay it. And then your subscription lasts. I have run out, if

01:07:51   you haven't noticed already, Mike, I have entirely run out of patience for the people

01:07:55   who say I will never get software on a subscription. I have no patience left for them. I think

01:08:00   it is purely dogmatic. It's purely political. And honestly, I think it's old thinking. I

01:08:07   think it's thinking of software in a way that was never realistic because of updates. This

01:08:13   idea that I'm just going to be a hermit and never update my software. And if you are that

01:08:17   person, I don't know what to tell you. This is better. And the people it serves by lowering

01:08:22   the barrier to entry are important and grow the product base. So yeah, and by the way,

01:08:31   I'll just put it out there. I said this in my story. Absolutely Apple's going to do this

01:08:34   for its Mac Pro apps too. Absolutely. They just need a new revision and they'll add some

01:08:40   stuff. I feel like they're going to sync it up and there'll be a new revision and maybe

01:08:45   these will be unified subscriptions, which would be nice. I was going to say, I would

01:08:48   want that, I feel like, even if it was like, you know, you paid a little bit more on both,

01:08:54   right? So like it wasn't like $10 a month, but it was like $7, all right, would be cool.

01:09:00   But I would do it if I felt like I needed to. I feel like the subscription, like to

01:09:05   go on what you're saying, one, if you are the type of person who will never get software

01:09:09   on subscription in a certain number of years, you're going to run out of software. Like

01:09:13   this is not going to be any software for you anymore. Like, cause everything, especially

01:09:16   professional tools. And it was always a subscription because you were always paying every so often.

01:09:23   And if you got into the fantasy that like, Oh yeah, but I didn't update my computer for

01:09:26   two years and ha ha, I really showed them. Okay. And then two years pass and you update

01:09:30   your computer and guess what? Then you pay. So like, what were you even saving then? I

01:09:35   think it's, I think it's, it's, it's similar to the whole, like, I want to, I got to buy

01:09:39   an app, a system that's a mini tower with upgradable RAM slots and a processor card,

01:09:45   because you never know I might upgrade my stuff and then they never do. It's that same

01:09:49   sort of thing where it's a frame of mind of like, yeah, but I want the option. Yeah. I'm

01:09:53   a, I'm going to game the system in some way. And it's just, it's, I don't think it's even

01:09:57   realistic. No. And also like, I feel like if you're in the situation where software

01:10:04   is being updated on that every couple of years, we have a big new iteration. We make you charge

01:10:09   for it. It means that there are features that they've held off that you haven't been able

01:10:13   to get until they were ready to put it in front of you. And like, you could have been

01:10:17   more productive and have more cool stuff coming out more frequently and not held to that idea

01:10:23   of waiting for the next big revision. Adobe is adding stuff to Photoshop all the time

01:10:29   because we're all subscribers, right? And so they can just roll it out. And one thing

01:10:34   they do that's very good, I don't know if any, if everybody knows about this, but like

01:10:37   also Adobe keeps a library, a catalog of versions. So if you don't want the latest version, I

01:10:44   actually just had this happen where a bug in the latest version of Photoshop bit me

01:10:48   and you know what I did? I uninstalled it and then I went to the creative cloud app

01:10:51   and I picked an earlier version because they're all there. You know, you want to install Photoshop

01:10:57   2021. It's like, yeah, okay. It's there. And then you install it. And that keeps people

01:11:02   on older systems available as part of their subscription. Like, and Apple doesn't have

01:11:07   that in the app store right now, which is a problem. I will grant you. But like, I love

01:11:12   the fact that Photoshop updates just happen when they happen instead of having a monolithic,

01:11:18   like right now with Final Cut on the Mac and Logic on the Mac, they have, Apple has two

01:11:23   choices. They either just release the update with big new features and give it to everybody

01:11:29   who's bought Logic Pro or Final Cut Pro in the last seven years or whatever, or they

01:11:37   don't and they hold it or they deprioritize it because they're like, well, yeah, but what's

01:11:42   the point? Everybody who's using this app has already bought it. In a subscription model,

01:11:47   you're, you actually have to serve the people who are your subscribers and you can do it

01:11:54   whenever you want instead of holding it for an artificial release like so much software

01:11:58   used to in the past.

01:11:59   So I'm sure you're going to be reviewing these, at least one of them probably, you know, doing

01:12:04   some kind of like big coverage when they're available.

01:12:06   Probably both. I mean, not from the, I'm not, I can't review them from the perspective of

01:12:10   a professional video editor or a professional audio or musician, right? But I can at least,

01:12:16   I know enough about both of them and use both of them regularly that I should be able to

01:12:22   understand more about how they work and how they work on the iPad too.

01:12:28   And so will you be assuming to like take the approach of these of like, or like thinking

01:12:36   about it in terms of this is the software that justifies the iPad Pro? Like, is that

01:12:43   the kind of thing that you think you might be considering when, when looking at these

01:12:46   apps?

01:12:49   No I, I, I think there are two things here, right? There's the meta story about it that

01:12:55   we've already talked about. And then there, how are they as apps, right? And I think those

01:12:59   are separate issues. Like I do think there, there is a story and I kind of already wrote

01:13:04   a bunch of it in my post last week, which is just, what does this mean for the platform?

01:13:11   In the end though, the apps are the apps. The apps don't represent the platform. The

01:13:15   apps are apps that run on the platform and how are they? And there is a largest, like

01:13:19   if they're disappointing or if they're successful or they do interesting things that reflects

01:13:23   on the platform, but that's not the same as saying like, like for example, if the apps

01:13:29   are great, it doesn't excuse the fact that they're so late in terms of the meta issue,

01:13:36   but it also doesn't matter if they're here and they're great. Cause that's what people

01:13:39   I think want to know is can I use this thing? So I do think those are separate issues. And

01:13:45   I'm very optimistic. Like I said, I've got my concerns that maybe they haven't learned

01:13:48   some of the lessons of the iPad pro experience. You know, you could read Apple's marketing

01:13:54   to be, uh, we tested it with touch and we threw in some keyboard shortcuts, good luck.

01:13:59   And you can draw things with the pencil if that's all that's there and it's not just

01:14:04   simplified for the marketing. I'm kind of concerned, but like, again, that's down to

01:14:07   the nitty gritty of the product. I love and this is phase one, right? I mean, now they're

01:14:12   on the, on the platform. Now they're a subscription model and on the platform. So here we go in

01:14:17   the, in a way, this is the beginning of this process. I'm glad though, that the, that the

01:14:22   platform owner has finally put its stamp on the platform. Um, I guess what's left Xcode,

01:14:30   but uh, but these, these are, are, are going to be here soon. And that is, I, again, with

01:14:37   all the attendant frustration about how we got to here, it is important that the platform

01:14:43   owner has taken its professional level products and put it on its professional level hardware

01:14:48   that matters. It really does.

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01:16:07   man that sounds good, bacon and cheddar egg bites, potato bacon and egg breakfast skillet,

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01:16:17   packing more protein, you can add on filling options like a salmon filet or chicken wings

01:16:22   to your factor meals as well. Jason, I think you got some factor meals, right?

01:16:26   I got a box. Absolutely. Lauren and I were eating them. They're good. We have used

01:16:33   other, how should I phrase this in an ad? Just say other services we'll say. We have

01:16:37   used other services that are similar to this in terms of providing sort of ready to eat

01:16:41   meals that you heat up. And this is a cut above. I will tell you, I have used some other

01:16:46   services where they were salty and weird and bad. And like the factor stuff is good. It

01:16:53   doesn't feel like some sort of like, you know, when you're eating it that you can, you can

01:16:56   taste the convenience and it doesn't taste good. It's not like that, right? The, the

01:17:01   chicken dishes were, the chicken was so good, like high quality chicken breast and the chicken

01:17:06   dishes. Just, yeah, I was very impressed. And Lauren too, she took them to work because

01:17:12   it was convenient to have something she can microwave and eat at work. I have, I'm here

01:17:18   at home by myself and make myself a lunch. Same story, very high quality, very impressed

01:17:24   with the, with the quality of all the ingredients and that they didn't taste like, you know,

01:17:31   like I like how much sodium is in this thing. I just, I don't know, in competitive products

01:17:35   I've had this feeling like this is not, this seems really engineered and that is not the

01:17:39   vibe I got from the factor meals at all. Not only is factor cheaper than takeout, the meals

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01:18:22   to get 50% off your first box. Our thanks to factor for their support of this show and

01:18:27   all of Relay FM. Let's finish up with some ask upgrade questions.

01:18:35   Stuart wrote in and asked if XROS is going to be gesture based, does this mean you would

01:18:43   effectively be using a touch based interface for a virtual Mac and if so could this be

01:18:49   the spur for the rumored touch based Macs?

01:18:52   I mean I expect them to behave like Mac OS does today and that there aren't Mac OS updates

01:18:59   for this so when Mac OS supports touch I think you might be able to use it for touch but

01:19:03   in the meantime you're going to be remote controlling a Mac using the Mac input methods,

01:19:09   right?

01:19:10   Yeah I would expect for if you are looking at a Mac screen right which could be a thing

01:19:17   you could do in this headset you know it's let's just say you could either virtualize

01:19:22   it or you could which is not what they're going to do or you could do like some kind

01:19:25   of screen sharing where like an AirPlay kind of thing to the headset. In that scenario

01:19:32   my imagination would be that you would either A use some kind of like hand tracked pointer

01:19:40   right like you're not going to be touching but you would move your finger and click but

01:19:44   you're clicking a pointer that you'll see on the screen or more realistically as you

01:19:48   say you will be using an actual physical mouse in your hand and clicking it like the pseudo

01:19:53   touch interface that Stuart is suggesting I reckon will be what we'll see in the iPad

01:19:59   right like the idea of these iPad apps being able to run on the headset that like you would

01:20:04   be reaching out with your hand and virtually touching interface elements on the iPad apps

01:20:11   but not on the Mac. Does that make sense to you? Like do you does that track of what you

01:20:16   think?

01:20:17   Yeah no I mean bottom line it's it's you'll be able to touch on on operating systems that

01:20:22   support touch you will not on ones that don't like right it's just you will these are virtual

01:20:28   devices that will follow the rules I mean also I don't believe these the headsets going

01:20:34   to run Mac OS so it's basically going to be like you're connecting over screen sharing

01:20:39   to a Mac in one way or another right it's not going to run Mac OS it may run iPad apps

01:20:45   natively but the Mac it's going to be a screen sharing window anyway but yeah I think iPad

01:20:49   apps will have it will have touch just because they do and maybe and maybe it will be translation

01:20:58   like catalyst like in some way where there'll be a gesture you can do that translates on

01:21:03   the iPad to a touch gesture or something like that I don't know right what that would be

01:21:07   like but fundamentally I I don't think this is the spur for touchscreen based Macs but

01:21:15   if they do touchscreen based Macs I would imagine that the touches will be you know

01:21:23   will be a part of the interface at some point because it will be an additional input method

01:21:28   yep a new friend of the show Ramon from last episode wrote in to ask after watching Google's

01:21:38   pixel fold announcement last week I was wondering with smartphones fast evolving into even more

01:21:45   highly capable computers should we stop categorizing them as phones and transition the category

01:21:51   to something like portable computers or a new name altogether too late I feel like we

01:21:57   missed about I was wondering if foldables would do it like if if that kind of form factor

01:22:05   change would enable some kind of like new name to emerge but everyone just calls them

01:22:14   folding phones so even though like there is equally folding tablets as they are folding

01:22:20   phones right like it just depends on like which one you think of mentally is the primary

01:22:26   I think there's nothing we could do and like let's realistically the name doesn't matter

01:22:33   because as we continue through history the word phone will mean pocket computer more

01:22:41   than handset with a rotary dial right like this is such a prevalent device type that

01:22:48   as people continue to age that word phones actually just means pocket portable computer

01:22:56   anyway right like yeah that's what that's what that means yeah that's what it means

01:23:00   now to basically everyone in the world really like if somebody said to you can you pass

01:23:07   me the phone and there was a cordless telephone and a cell phone next to each other which

01:23:13   one would you give them like if Jason said to me can you pass me the phone or pass me

01:23:19   my phone and I was in his house and there were these two things next to each other I'd

01:23:22   pick up his iPhone I wouldn't pick up his like cordless phone what's he gonna do with

01:23:26   that thing like a call no way yeah Mufi asks now that Google has turned on pass keys for

01:23:34   their accounts how long until we get the same for our Apple accounts I don't know this is

01:23:40   I this is a challenge right because you you can't use your keychain for your Apple ID

01:23:45   either right it's you got to log into it manually anybody who's gotten that that thing that's

01:23:50   like oh you need to enter in your Apple ID password you know oh my god my Apple ID password

01:23:54   is very complicated and now I have to tap it in on a little touch screen it's I hate

01:24:00   it so yeah great I I wonder what all the security ramifications are right like that's that's

01:24:06   the thing is Apple has put so much into the Apple ID the question is like how do you secure

01:24:11   the Apple ID so that you could use something like pass keys to get to everywhere in your

01:24:15   Apple ID and and is Apple comfortable with that because once as we've talked about before

01:24:20   on the show once you have a certain level of authentication you can run off with all

01:24:26   the data and you know right it's it can be scary at the same time imagine how much easier

01:24:32   life would be if you could log into your Apple account entirely using biometric authentication

01:24:38   all the time or most of the time using a passkey I would love that so I just I feel like there's

01:24:43   a complex security issue here that probably requires an understanding of how Apple's Apple

01:24:48   ID system works on the inside that we don't know but I have a great confidence in the

01:24:53   fact that Apple is behind pass keys knows that they are a user experience win and would

01:25:00   like to do them everywhere they could possibly can but it might not be in all the places

01:25:06   that we want it for some good and esoteric security reasons I'm I'm I'm hesitant of past

01:25:16   keys for now like I don't know if I fully understand the ramifications of using these

01:25:27   I am using pass keys for my internet service provider so when we moved I set up a new account

01:25:34   with this company and they offered a passkey and I was like okay right this was months

01:25:40   ago fine and I would say so far trying to log in on Safari on my Mac has been complicated

01:25:51   I think is the best way to put it like it it hasn't been super smooth like it's trying

01:25:59   I think this is really the way that this company has implemented the login on their website

01:26:05   has been the biggest issue where like on the iPhone it really understands past keys but

01:26:11   on them on their web version just wants me to put in my password and like it took quite

01:26:17   a lot of digging around to find the way to do the biometric authentication as they were

01:26:22   calling it which also isn't what it is you know what I mean like it's a passkey is it's

01:26:26   on like to refer to it with biometric authentication made it complicated but I did it for me it's

01:26:32   just one of those things where I kind of want to see how it shakes out like I believe in

01:26:37   what they're attempting to achieve but I know this is going to cause so many problems for

01:26:42   so many things just because of the practicalities of making this move it's like in the article

01:26:48   that Dan wrote in six colors about this Google thing he made a great point of like what about

01:26:53   shared passwords like here's the thing we all know we shouldn't do it but sometimes

01:26:58   you have no choice you know like for example me and Jason have some shared passwords right

01:27:03   like yep there is for all of our social media accounts for our hosting of the show like

01:27:11   the audio these services don't have multiple accounts so we have to share the password

01:27:19   sharing a passkey I don't even know if it's possible right now but it's complicated even

01:27:25   if it would be so like it's early days yet right and I think that goes in if you're Apple

01:27:30   and you're talking about the gold standard the Apple ID the thing that unlocks everything

01:27:36   you want to get it right I wouldn't you know be surprised if they do something to interconnect

01:27:43   passkeys more even a WWDC they might start offering it maybe right but like it's gonna

01:27:51   take some time yeah I will say that is one of the one of the the passwords I would change

01:28:03   last right would be my Apple ID one I'm gonna have to that I'm gonna go very far before

01:28:11   I change that one to a passkey like if you think about how many devices and how many

01:28:16   accounts touch that super that once feels very dangerous if you would like to send in

01:28:26   a question of your own for a future episode of the show you can go to upgrade feedback.com

01:28:33   and you can send in your ask a question you can also send in your feedback your follow

01:28:38   up and just no talks to until next week's episode if you want to catch Jason online

01:28:43   go to six colors.com you can also hear Jason's podcasts at the incomparable.com and of course

01:28:48   here are relay FM you can listen to my shows here on relay FM to and check out my work

01:28:53   over at cortexbrand.com you can find us on Mastodon Jason is at J Snell on zeppelin.flights

01:28:59   I am at i Mike on Mike.social and you can find the show as at upgrade on relay FM.social

01:29:06   you can watch video clips of the show posted to Mastodon but also on Tik Tok and Instagram

01:29:11   where you'll find us as upgrade relay thank you to our members who support us of upgrade

01:29:16   plus thank you to our sponsors factor text expander and electric for their support of

01:29:20   this week's episode but most of all thank you for listening until next time take a by

01:29:26   Jason Snell.

01:29:28   [Music]

01:29:34   [buzzing]