451: A Bath in the Genius Tub


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   Hello and welcome to Connected episode 451. It's made possible this week by our sponsors, Squarespace, Nom Nom, and Dark Noise. My name is Steven Hackett and I have the pleasure of being joined by Mr. Mike Hurley.

00:00:21   Hello! Hey bud. I'm happy to be back. I bring follow up shortly, but before I get to that I would like to introduce...

00:00:29   Federico Vittucci. Hi Federico.

00:00:31   Hello. Hi. I had a vision. I had a vision last night. I can tell you, two weeks in advance I will be the winner of the Riki's. I had a vision came to me.

00:00:47   And the vision told me, the vision told me, "Ticci, you will win."

00:00:52   See, because the funny thing is, I think you'll find it's the coronation year and I'm gonna take all of it because I'm already the annual chairman so I'm gonna actually take the other one and then I will be king.

00:01:05   Okay, so I just need you all to know that like that's good that you feel that way, but I have the ability to just take it all and then it's mine.

00:01:14   No, Johnny Ive did not design a logo for you.

00:01:17   Oh, he will.

00:01:18   That's my promise. When I have both of them, Sir Johnny Ive will create a seal for me as the Riki king.

00:01:30   A seal, okay. Alright, so anyway we were saying follow up.

00:01:35   I have some follow up. You may remember, or you probably don't, but the microphone on my Apple Watch has been broken for a long time. It just stopped hearing me. I don't know why.

00:01:46   You got tired of you.

00:01:48   Maybe. Usually in my life at some point people stop wanting to listen to me and my Apple Watch also followed along with that. I have now fixed it. A hot tub fixed the Apple Watch microphone.

00:02:02   Why was your Apple Watch in a hot tub?

00:02:05   That's a brand new kind of genius bar.

00:02:07   It was on me at the time and I just kind of didn't notice, left my watch on and I got into a hot tub in the Highlands of Scotland and then I realised later on, oh, it's doing the hand washing thing again.

00:02:21   So I assume the microphone was just blocked and then being in the warm water unplugged, like unblocked it and I just thought that this is one of the funniest ways that I've ever fixed a technology issue in my life, which is getting in a hot tub.

00:02:37   You took a bath in the genius tub.

00:02:39   In the genius tub.

00:02:41   The genius tub.

00:02:42   You fixed it.

00:02:43   If you were dealing with backups it could have been a hot tub time machine.

00:02:47   That's a really relevant reference. I appreciate it.

00:02:50   Does anyone remember that movie? It was terrible.

00:02:52   Yeah, this has, now my microphone is working again. I get to air a grievance for the second time that I cannot believe has not been fixed by now.

00:03:04   The green screen thing?

00:03:05   Oh God.

00:03:06   No, we're going to get to that later on unfortunately.

00:03:08   So hand washing, right? The microphone listens for the water and the motions and it gives you the 20 second countdown.

00:03:14   Yeah.

00:03:15   Fine. I like it. It reminds me to wash my hands for longer than I think I should be washing them. So that's good.

00:03:21   I then use an air dryer, right? Like a Dyson air dryer or whatever.

00:03:26   You know, one of those things, a hand dryer.

00:03:29   I then get, oh, it's loud.

00:03:31   Noise. Noise over 95 decibels every single time.

00:03:35   Now think about this, right?

00:03:37   That should not happen.

00:03:38   It's so simple.

00:03:40   If hand washing, do not give a noise alert for a minute. Done.

00:03:46   Like I'm not a programmer, but that feels like a simple enough thing to deal with because that makes no sense.

00:03:52   Like, you know what it is. If I just wash my hands and then immediately is preceded by a very loud noise.

00:03:58   It's probably a hand dryer.

00:04:00   What if you just, what if you wash your hands and rush out of the toilet and then suddenly you find yourself amidst some construction work?

00:04:09   I think it's okay though, because what am I supposed to do about that?

00:04:12   Do I just turn around and go back inside and just like wait for the construction to finish?

00:04:17   Like what do I do?

00:04:20   I don't know. Just be mindful of your ears.

00:04:24   But my ears aren't in the hand dryer. Put my ears in there.

00:04:28   What if they get wet?

00:04:30   Well, then leave me a drink.

00:04:31   Maybe you should consider a quieter hand dryer.

00:04:34   I don't have, I can't make a consideration. I can't make this consideration.

00:04:39   Be like, you know, just, you know, use a quieter method.

00:04:44   Well, the Dyson one is very, I have one. It's very loud, but it's also very good.

00:04:49   Wait, you have one?

00:04:50   No, I mean like I have a hairdryer. I don't have a hand dryer.

00:04:54   Oh, I thought you installed like a Dyson hand dryer in your home.

00:04:58   No, no, no.

00:04:59   I was like, Federico, that's like a different kind of life.

00:05:01   No, no, no. I mean.

00:05:03   Yeah. It's like those, the air blades or whatever they're called,

00:05:06   but there are loads of things like it that just they like hand dryers,

00:05:10   modern hand dryers, just, it's just so loud.

00:05:13   Yeah.

00:05:14   Like that's just how they are. Anyway, that is my frustration.

00:05:16   I would also like to give my second piece of follow up,

00:05:19   having listened to last week's episode. Federico,

00:05:22   I'm very happy to hear that you're a fan of stage manager.

00:05:24   Oh yeah.

00:05:25   On the Mac.

00:05:26   On the Mac only. It's good, right? Like it does the job.

00:05:29   It does the job. Yes.

00:05:30   It's not perfect, but what it does is proves the idea that if you could have

00:05:35   freely resizable and movable windows, iPad stage manager will work.

00:05:40   Yes. Uh, I'm still using it.

00:05:43   I still believe that I will like it if I could like pin some workspaces as like

00:05:50   favorites or maybe just give them a nickname that I could see.

00:05:54   Jeff, Bob, Susan.

00:05:57   Yeah. Bob is where I get my writing work done.

00:06:02   Um, like that idea. Um, but yes,

00:06:06   I think with just a tiny bit more freedom,

00:06:10   it's like a recipe that is just slightly wrong in terms of the ingredients.

00:06:15   Uh, and I think on iPad OS that's what's missing.

00:06:19   Like give me just a bit more freedom to sort of achieve that balance that you

00:06:24   have on the Mac because it works. It works for me on the Mac. It's fine.

00:06:28   Like it's not perfect, but it's fine.

00:06:31   And I kind of like it where in the sense that I have this nice separation of

00:06:37   workspaces and you know,

00:06:39   the recent ones remain easily accessible in the strip. Yeah,

00:06:44   I'm still using it and I like it and I wish it,

00:06:47   iPad OS was like this.

00:06:49   Saying about like setting prefer like pairs or whatever.

00:06:52   Like I had to restart my Mac today and then just had to rebuild all my stage

00:06:56   manager configuration. Like it doesn't save them. No, it doesn't save them. No.

00:07:00   Like this is like a thing that has, you know, like it remembers spaces like,

00:07:04   you know, they're always fine. But stage manager, nope.

00:07:06   It's just like, I don't know what you're talking about.

00:07:08   And it starts all over again.

00:07:09   My concern is that when it comes to multitasking interfaces,

00:07:13   of which Apple has made plenty in the past decade only,

00:07:17   they have a tendency to release a new multitasking UI,

00:07:22   get some criticism from people and then not do anything for the next three

00:07:29   years at least. I don't know what it is about,

00:07:33   about this sort of behavior that maybe the multitasking,

00:07:36   multitasking team at Apple has, you know, very, you know, it's very,

00:07:40   very not, you know, they don't take feedback that well,

00:07:45   but historically that's been the case. Like they put out something,

00:07:48   people say, well, it's, it's a start, but you know, it's, it's,

00:07:52   it's got issues in such and such way.

00:07:54   And they really don't take that criticism that well.

00:07:59   Maybe stage manager will be different this time.

00:08:02   Maybe we'll see stage manager changes right after iPadOS 16 and Mac OS Ventura.

00:08:09   I hope that's the case.

00:08:10   I hope this is not another multitasking UI that gets updated in 2025 or 2026.

00:08:18   Historically, it's been like that.

00:08:20   What do you mean they don't take the feedback well?

00:08:23   Well, it's just, you know, when, when,

00:08:26   when they did the iOS 11, right on the iPad,

00:08:31   a lot of people pointed out like, Hey,

00:08:34   this multitasking UI so based around drag and drop,

00:08:39   it doesn't really work for such and such use case.

00:08:42   And they did nothing for the next three years.

00:08:45   See, I don't know if that's like,

00:08:47   I would categorize it as not taking the feedback well.

00:08:49   I think this is one of these things where...

00:08:51   What is it then?

00:08:52   They have like a roadmap and they don't move from it.

00:08:56   Right? So it's not about not taking the feedback well.

00:08:59   It's just like, they just, all right.

00:09:01   Not taking the feedback at all.

00:09:03   Yes. They take it, they take it,

00:09:05   but don't do anything with it for like two years because they won't,

00:09:08   because they won't disrupt the plan.

00:09:11   I see.

00:09:12   That's how I always read it of like,

00:09:14   they have this plan and nothing's going to shake them from that plan.

00:09:18   Which is a shame, especially if that happens again with stage manager,

00:09:22   I think it would be too bad because there is potential.

00:09:25   And I think the Mac version shows that potential and it would be too bad.

00:09:29   Like it would just be,

00:09:30   it would just be sad to not use that potential and to sort of refine the

00:09:36   iPadOS experience.

00:09:38   I believe it would get refined. I don't think it's happening this year.

00:09:41   Yeah. See, that's my issue with that. Yeah. Okay.

00:09:45   Oh, I don't think it should be that way either.

00:09:47   Like we, how many, you know, we will talk about this forever and ever.

00:09:50   This should have already been updates to stage manager.

00:09:52   I know.

00:09:53   But there hasn't been. Maybe we just need to put iOS on a subscription.

00:09:57   In that case, maybe that's what it's needed.

00:10:00   You know, you, you can count on those updates.

00:10:03   Like honestly, like, would you, maybe this is.

00:10:08   No. Whatever it is, the answer is no.

00:10:12   Hold on.

00:10:13   Okay.

00:10:14   Like if you came up to me and said,

00:10:17   "Tichy, if you started paying $5 a month directly just to the multitasking

00:10:25   team at Apple for a pro multitasking subscription feature on your iPad,

00:10:33   like I got to tell you, I would do it. I'm so desperate. I would do it."

00:10:37   We all came from the days of paying for operating systems, right?

00:10:40   We all used to pay for operating systems. So like on Apple's platforms,

00:10:45   including like iOS or like iPhone OS,

00:10:49   we have to use to pay for that when there was an update. So I,

00:10:53   I'm used to that. Like, but I,

00:10:56   I really don't believe that even if we pay for it, it would change things.

00:10:59   But if pro multitasking became part of Apple one, would that be so bad?

00:11:04   No, no, it wouldn't be so bad.

00:11:07   I know it sounds like, you know, everybody's like, "Oh,

00:11:10   subscriptions for multitasking." Like, would it be so bad? You know,

00:11:15   I would do it.

00:11:16   Well, but this is the answer to so many subscription questions.

00:11:19   It's worth it if you're getting what you want.

00:11:21   Yeah.

00:11:22   And so in that scenario, you'd be getting what you want, right?

00:11:25   Yep.

00:11:26   In theory. David wrote in and said,

00:11:28   "Stage manager animations on the Mac can be skipped by using the reduce motion

00:11:33   setting in accessibility and system settings."

00:11:35   Yeah.

00:11:36   Me and Steven were playing around with this before the show.

00:11:38   Yeah, I tried to.

00:11:40   It's fine. It's less of an animation,

00:11:43   but then there are other animations that are turned off. So.

00:11:47   Yeah. It sort of just turns it into a quick fade as opposed to a giant window,

00:11:51   like swinging around an invisible point in your screen.

00:11:56   Do you still use reduce motion, Steven, on your iPhone?

00:12:00   That's a good question.

00:12:02   Because you turned it on a long time ago and then made sure you kept it on when promotion was on.

00:12:08   Yeah. So I have promotion off for sure.

00:12:12   I don't think... I'm trying to look through settings.

00:12:16   I don't think I have reduce motion off anymore.

00:12:20   I feel like it broke something that I wanted, but now I can't find it in settings.

00:12:25   So, motion.

00:12:26   OK.

00:12:27   It is off. So I am allowing all the motion.

00:12:30   OK.

00:12:31   Yeah, I think that the face ID style gestures, right, from the bottom,

00:12:36   I think they benefit from the motion being turned on.

00:12:39   And?

00:12:40   Yes, promotion is off because I dislike being sick.

00:12:43   That's a good thing.

00:12:44   And Tyler is on Team Skyline. Tyler says,

00:12:47   Yes.

00:12:48   Skyline is also the name of a long and beautiful road, Skyline Boulevard,

00:12:52   that runs along the ridgeline of the mountains on the peninsula of Northern California.

00:12:56   Parallels Interstate 280 between San Francisco and the Cupertino area.

00:13:00   Very popular cyclists.

00:13:02   See? Very popular.

00:13:04   MacOS Skyline.

00:13:05   MacOS Skyline.

00:13:06   At least it would be the name of an operating system on the Mac

00:13:10   that everyone would immediately know how to pronounce.

00:13:12   Skyline. It's so epic.

00:13:14   And it sounds epic.

00:13:16   Like, what is Ventura? Like, is that the name of a guy?

00:13:19   Like, I don't get it.

00:13:20   Like, all these names.

00:13:21   Pet Detective.

00:13:22   All these names, I don't get it.

00:13:24   What is it? What has it been, Ventura?

00:13:27   What was that before? Monterey?

00:13:29   Don't forget Mavericks.

00:13:30   Mavericks. That was bad.

00:13:32   Mavericks was just bad.

00:13:33   And it was the first one they did with the new naming scheme.

00:13:36   I was like, what are you doing?

00:13:37   Sierra. Hi, Sierra.

00:13:39   Sierra. Oh, my God.

00:13:40   Sierra and hi, Sierra.

00:13:41   Hi, Sierra.

00:13:42   Hi.

00:13:43   Yeah. All those names are bad.

00:13:45   The only decent name was Big Sur, I think.

00:13:49   Because it's got big.

00:13:50   It's a big Sur.

00:13:52   You just like the big?

00:13:53   Yeah. Look, a name has got to be epic.

00:13:55   Otherwise, people don't upgrade.

00:13:57   That's an interesting...

00:13:58   Skyline.

00:13:59   Okay.

00:14:00   Imagine a MacOS Skyline.

00:14:01   See, that sounds like, gosh, that's important.

00:14:05   I need to get Skyline on my computer.

00:14:07   Should we just skip this next thing in the show notes?

00:14:10   I think that's good, right?

00:14:11   No, this is really important.

00:14:12   People are suffering.

00:14:13   People are suffering, Mike.

00:14:14   Nobody's suffering.

00:14:15   I believe at some point in history,

00:14:18   it was promised to me that we would never be talking about this again.

00:14:21   On the iPhone, they fixed it on the iPhone back with iOS 13.6.1,

00:14:28   as everybody remembers.

00:14:29   Friend of the show and Sunday's guest on Mac Power Users.

00:14:33   So check that out.

00:14:34   Chance Miller writes at 9to5Mac.

00:14:35   Enemy of me now for writing this article.

00:14:38   WatchOS 9.5 for some people has turned their iPhone screens green.

00:14:45   Images posted to Reddit by those users show the Apple Watch display

00:14:48   with a noticeable different color profiles than before,

00:14:52   replacing traditional OLED black levels with a more washed out green-gray tint instead.

00:14:58   Thankfully, the Apple Watch Ultra, the best Apple Watch, seems to not be affected.

00:15:02   Then why are we talking about it?

00:15:04   You know what the worst, you know, the absolute worst thing about this article that Chance wrote?

00:15:09   Is that Chance wrote it and he did it out of spite.

00:15:13   He refers to it as Green Gate and links to Steven's website.

00:15:17   Oh my God, Chance, this was unnecessary.

00:15:20   Yep.

00:15:21   We have now experienced Chance.

00:15:23   This is Chance Gate.

00:15:24   We're in Chance Gate now.

00:15:26   Yeah.

00:15:27   That's what's happened.

00:15:28   This is Chance Gate where Chance has sided with the green industrial complex that Steven's a part of.

00:15:34   Chance has sided with Big Green.

00:15:36   He's in bed with Big Green.

00:15:40   Oh, yeah.

00:15:41   You're all on Big Green's payroll over there.

00:15:45   I would say that if you are experiencing this, let us know in the feedback form.

00:15:49   I mean, I don't even know what I'm looking at here.

00:15:51   No.

00:15:52   You don't look at the feedback form.

00:15:53   Come on.

00:15:54   Don't let us know.

00:15:55   Well, Mike does.

00:15:56   I do, yeah.

00:15:57   And I care for Mike.

00:15:58   Thank you, Federico.

00:15:59   He's just trying to protect me from Big Green.

00:16:02   Don't touch my friend.

00:16:03   Yes.

00:16:04   Show me where the green hurt you.

00:16:07   I would just, you know, how do you break this?

00:16:11   I'd love to know.

00:16:12   Hopefully they get it fixed soon and people can get back to normal lives.

00:16:15   I mean, just think about it.

00:16:17   Everybody's got them back to it.

00:16:19   It's okay.

00:16:20   You look at your watch and then you look up and look around and you think, wow.

00:16:25   What's, uh, what's real.

00:16:28   What's what are colors?

00:16:30   I don't know.

00:16:31   Oh, my God.

00:16:32   This will never, this topic will never end.

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00:18:14   All right, Sims wrote in and said, "I was listening to the latest Cortex episode and it got me thinking, what are Steven and Federico's everyday carries?

00:18:24   Basically, what is in their pockets when they go outside into the world?"

00:18:27   Money. A lot of money.

00:18:31   Just rolls and rolls of dollar bills. You can't even spend them there, but you have them anyway.

00:18:37   It's weird, I carry heroes here. It's strange.

00:18:40   Oh wow, interesting.

00:18:41   You two should meet up. You've got something each other needs.

00:18:45   I believe that's what they call a currency exchange.

00:18:48   Us in the industry.

00:18:57   I guess I can start.

00:18:59   So I've got a few things that are always with me anytime I go anywhere.

00:19:04   Of course, my iPhone 14 Pro Max in the midnight Apple leather case, which is a pretty boring case color, but I don't really like any of the leather colors this year, so I went with the midnight.

00:19:17   And it looks black unless you're in direct sun, and then it looks sort of like that dark navy color.

00:19:22   On the back of it, usually, or sometimes in my other pocket, is the Peak Design Slim Mobile Wallet.

00:19:30   So they have a couple of wallets. One of them has a kickstand in it, which I know Federico would get excited about. Mine does not have the kickstand, I'm sorry.

00:19:40   But this is a magnetic wallet that just sticks to the back of the phone or the back of the case.

00:19:47   It works better if the case is on, because I feel like the magnetism is stronger.

00:19:51   And I have just a couple of cards in there. I usually carry a little bit of cash, and I have a Chipolo card that we talked about forever ago that works with Find My, the card spot.

00:20:04   Was that the one that we all pre-ordered and then canceled or something?

00:20:09   I think I lost it.

00:20:12   If I've ordered that, I never got it.

00:20:15   I realize now.

00:20:16   Well, maybe you could use Find My to see where it is.

00:20:18   What do you do when you lose the thing that's supposed to help you find other things?

00:20:23   You just quit?

00:20:25   Yeah, I think so.

00:20:26   That's the end. That's the end for you.

00:20:28   There are other better options that are rechargeable, but mine is still rocking and rolling my original one somehow.

00:20:35   So that's in there, like I said, along with some other cards.

00:20:39   I switched to this at some point over the last year or so, maybe. I used to use a little Tom Bihn wallet.

00:20:46   But at some point I kind of became a person of like, you know what, it's kind of nice in my phone and wallet can be one thing, but then very easily two things when I want them to be.

00:20:55   So I go when I get in my truck, I've got wireless charging now.

00:20:58   I take it off. I put my phone, the wireless charger and the wallet in the cup holder and I can put them back together and then be on my way.

00:21:05   So I like the flexibility it offers me if I want them together or separate.

00:21:09   OK.

00:21:10   Keys always right. So the truck key, house key, key to the relay FMPO box where people sometimes send me nice things.

00:21:18   I've got an air tag on that because everyone should have an air tag on the keys just all the time.

00:21:23   And then lastly, a Field Notes notebook paired with a Uni Jetstream pin in blue, 0.7 millimeter.

00:21:32   That's been my pin of choice for like probably close to 15 years.

00:21:37   And I just have a box of them. And when one breaks or I kill it, I just get a new one out.

00:21:42   And it's always with me.

00:21:44   What do you mean? Like, like, like it runs out like I use it all.

00:21:47   Wait.

00:21:48   Or they're kind of bad about the clips breaking too, which is annoying.

00:21:52   If a clip breaks, it becomes a desk pin and then one with a clip goes back on the notebook.

00:21:57   If you use all of the ink in the pen, do you think that you've killed the pen?

00:22:01   Well, it's given its life and service.

00:22:03   Pens die.

00:22:05   OK.

00:22:06   All objects die.

00:22:07   Oh, look at me. I've got a pin podcast.

00:22:10   Well, I've just never heard someone reference it like that before. Like you've used all of its blood.

00:22:15   Is that what you're saying?

00:22:16   You're the one making it weird.

00:22:18   No, you started it. Interesting.

00:22:21   I do believe in animate objects.

00:22:24   Tell me more about this.

00:22:26   Like a lot of my life philosophy was built when I watched Toy Story as a kid.

00:22:32   Like, I'm not kidding.

00:22:34   I think we are the Toy Story generation.

00:22:36   I thank stuff when I throw it away.

00:22:39   Yeah. Or if you bump into, oh, you've got like the Marie Kondo method.

00:22:42   No, but I was doing this before Marie Kondo.

00:22:44   You had the Federico? She has the Federico method.

00:22:47   She's...

00:22:49   No, but I do thank stuff for being of service when I throw it.

00:22:55   Like recently I thanked like a pillow because it was too old and needed to go.

00:23:02   But yeah.

00:23:03   You did thank that Apple TV remote that time.

00:23:06   No. I hated that thing.

00:23:09   That thing went out in the trash. That was gone.

00:23:12   So I've got all that stuff. That's all the time.

00:23:15   And then I put a couple of things in here that are just sometimes.

00:23:18   So of course AirPods Pro 2, which are fantastic.

00:23:22   I do have a lanyard on the case, which I find it to be much easier to find the case.

00:23:27   Like when you've sat it on the counter and someone sits something else on the counter.

00:23:30   Right?

00:23:31   And it means, Mike knows this, in our kitchen we have a place where we hang our keys when we come in.

00:23:36   And I can hang my AirPods there.

00:23:38   So that's where they are if they're not with me.

00:23:40   So I always know in theory where they are.

00:23:42   So like the little lanyard. I don't even know where I got it.

00:23:45   Just like some cheap lanyard that was laying around.

00:23:47   And then same knife as you actually.

00:23:50   The Draplin Design Company James Brand Folsom knife.

00:23:55   Which is fantastic. It's one of my favorite things that I own.

00:23:59   And if I am going to need a knife somewhere, then I will carry that one.

00:24:02   My idea to carry it is pretty simple.

00:24:04   I mean, I have an iPhone and AirPods Pro and the wallet with the AirTag holder that I mentioned on Connected a few months back.

00:24:14   But there has been a recent change that I want to mention.

00:24:19   And that is all thanks to an Instagram ad that I saw.

00:24:23   And this is actually a great product.

00:24:25   So I was scrolling through my Instagram stories and I mean it's full of ads these days.

00:24:31   But every once in a while there's a good one.

00:24:33   Because the algorithm every once in a while really gets me.

00:24:38   Yeah.

00:24:39   And so I'm here to recommend the Magbak iPhone case.

00:24:46   That's M-A-G. Magbak.

00:24:49   That's M-A-G-B-A-K. Magbak.

00:24:52   Magbak.com.

00:24:57   I like when a company's name, it is so obvious what they make.

00:25:00   Yeah. It's a magnetic back.

00:25:04   It's a Magbak.

00:25:05   It's Magbak.

00:25:06   It's Magbak. I love it. I love this thing.

00:25:08   So it's a simple silicone case.

00:25:10   And my understanding is that it's got really strong magnets inside.

00:25:15   Stronger than the magnets found in the official Apple leather MagSafe case for example.

00:25:22   Which I was using before this one.

00:25:24   It's got extra magnets in it.

00:25:26   For example this case.

00:25:27   I was recently having lunch at my neighbor's place.

00:25:33   And they have this metal table outside on the balcony.

00:25:37   And I just placed my phone down and it went "TONK!"

00:25:41   I was like "Oh!"

00:25:45   I have this sometimes with my watchband because I have the magnetic watchband.

00:25:48   I put my wrist down.

00:25:50   I was like "TONK!"

00:25:51   I was like "Oh! My wrist is stuck to the table!"

00:25:53   Yeah.

00:25:54   Really strong magnets inside.

00:25:57   But I love this thing because it allowed me to simplify the sort of magnetic attachment situation in my car.

00:26:05   So for the past three years. We've had the new generation of MagSafe for the past three years.

00:26:12   I've been using this Belkin car mount. MagSafe mount for the car vents in your car.

00:26:21   Which has been working very nicely but it's kind of bulky.

00:26:26   And every once in a while I need to adjust the angle of the thing because it's placed on the car vents and the car vents they move.

00:26:35   And so for example sometimes I really want to make sure my phone is upright and I need to readjust the position of the Belkin mount.

00:26:41   The MagBak people, they make this thin strip of magnets.

00:26:47   It's like a horizontal strip. It's like 3 centimeters or something.

00:26:52   They have it on the homepage of the site if you watch the promo video.

00:26:56   And I just stuck that one to my car's dashboard just above the car vents so it doesn't move.

00:27:06   It's got a piece of tape in the back.

00:27:09   And it's super thin. You don't even notice it.

00:27:12   And now that thin strip of magnets holds my phone as I'm driving upright, doesn't move, doesn't wobble, super strong.

00:27:25   Like you wouldn't tell from such a thin strip of 3 magnets I believe that it would be able to hold an iPhone 14 Pro Max.

00:27:33   But the combination of the MagBak case and the MagBak magnets...

00:27:39   Like a MagStix.

00:27:41   The MagStix, thank you. So it's a stick. It's a little stick. It totally works.

00:27:46   I didn't get the wallet. These folks, they also make a wallet. It doubles as a kickstand of sorts.

00:27:53   I prefer using my traditional wallet now.

00:27:56   But they do make a bunch of other accessories that now that I was able to verify the quality of what they make,

00:28:03   I think I'm going to check out more of their stuff.

00:28:07   I'm super happy with this case. The texture of the silicone back is good.

00:28:11   Keeps MagSafe compatibility of course.

00:28:14   So right now for example, the phone is sitting upright in my Anker cube on my desk.

00:28:20   Here's the thing that I have with these ideas.

00:28:22   Because I know Steven's in this, Gray's in this, like with the Peak Design thing.

00:28:26   Like you love the case and then you go into their whole lifestyle, right?

00:28:30   What do you do when a new iPhone comes out?

00:28:33   Can you just not mount your phone to the car for a month while you wait for a case?

00:28:38   I'll be sad for a month.

00:28:41   Like what are you going to do?

00:28:43   Go back to the balcony mount.

00:28:45   Okay.

00:28:46   Which I put in the glove compartment of my car for now.

00:28:51   It's not accurately named.

00:28:53   Reference acknowledged.

00:28:55   It's actually the MagSafe charger compartment.

00:28:58   See, there was a death cab joke just right there and you blew right past it.

00:29:01   Do you think that I know?

00:29:03   Do you think I know?

00:29:05   I need to share something I found on the MagBak website.

00:29:07   Okay.

00:29:08   I'm going to put it in the Discord.

00:29:09   I already sent it to y'all in iMessage.

00:29:11   They make a bunch of phone stuff and they also make clip-on rim protectors for Teslas.

00:29:17   How is that in the same company?

00:29:20   Why is it on the same website?

00:29:22   Because Teslas, I think a lot of people may know if you ever walked past one,

00:29:25   the lip of the rim sticks out pretty far and everyone has a Tesla's curved it.

00:29:29   And they all look like they've been murdered.

00:29:32   And they have a little...

00:29:34   See, because they actually make like a clever little attachment for the screen,

00:29:38   like the screen in the Tesla to put your phone on.

00:29:41   Yeah.

00:29:42   Which makes sense.

00:29:43   But why do they make these too?

00:29:45   I don't know.

00:29:47   You know what this feels like?

00:29:48   The owner has a Tesla and wanted this and then just found like a really great way to make it

00:29:52   and now they have it.

00:29:54   I also have a $200 phone sanitizer, which I'm pretty sure one of you need to order

00:30:01   and report back about.

00:30:03   Why?

00:30:04   I mean, you don't know what's on your phone.

00:30:07   Well, yours is probably clean because you were just in a hot tub and that kills everything.

00:30:10   I didn't have my phone in the hot tub. It was just a watch.

00:30:12   It was just a watch.

00:30:13   Super good.

00:30:14   So thank you Instagram.

00:30:15   Thank you Mark Zuckerberg for recommending this product to me.

00:30:19   You did?

00:30:20   I think he's like, "I got it."

00:30:23   I know where we're going to get him.

00:30:25   He's there.

00:30:26   I mean, sending ads to people.

00:30:29   Just you though.

00:30:30   Just me.

00:30:31   I'm looking, we'll talk about this in a bit, but like I look forward in a couple of weeks,

00:30:35   I'll get to see the back back.

00:30:37   Yeah, the back back.

00:30:39   We will get to all the experience while Federico can stick his phone to.

00:30:44   Do you want me to bring you a bunch of spare Mac sticks?

00:30:49   Not really.

00:30:50   But I would like you to bring them and then maybe put them around Cupertino and see what happens.

00:30:55   Oh, okay.

00:30:56   Federico, you better watch out.

00:30:58   Mike likes to take things that are yours.

00:31:00   I know, I know.

00:31:01   He's so giddy.

00:31:02   I don't trust him.

00:31:04   Remember you said about all that cash you carry around?

00:31:06   I'm going to rob you.

00:31:08   I'm taking the cash this time.

00:31:09   It's been a long con.

00:31:11   I'm coming for the cash.

00:31:12   Oh, you're going straight for the cash.

00:31:13   Okay.

00:31:14   Well, I'm not keeping that much cash on me just as a precaution for travel.

00:31:19   This feels like when you see those stickers on vans, like no tools left overnight,

00:31:25   when there definitely is tools in this.

00:31:27   This is what Federico's doing.

00:31:28   He's trying to throw me off the scent now.

00:31:29   Be like, oh, I won't have cash on me.

00:31:31   Yeah, whatever.

00:31:32   Okay, what if I told you I have $5,000 in cash?

00:31:35   Then I'll look forward to getting $5,000 from you.

00:31:37   Okay.

00:31:38   But they're all in pieces of one scent.

00:31:42   They're all...

00:31:44   He's carrying around a bucket of pennies.

00:31:46   I mean, it's going to be very obvious to see that you've got it.

00:31:49   So that'll be good.

00:31:50   Okay.

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00:33:40   All right, so I was tutoring last night. That's what I do.

00:33:47   TMI, man.

00:33:50   That's people too on the don.

00:33:56   Or don.

00:34:00   Oh, this is so juvenile. I love it.

00:34:02   I know, I know. I posted this very short, and I would say based on the interaction,

00:34:10   mildly successful vibe check just ahead of WWDC just to get my overall feelings out there

00:34:19   in terms of how I'm feeling, what I want to see. I'm just going to read you the post.

00:34:24   Here's my official vibe check trademark ahead of #WWDC23.

00:34:29   You've got to use the hashtag, otherwise people will not see you and take you seriously.

00:34:35   One, I had so much fun writing my iOS 16 review. I cannot wait for iOS 17.

00:34:41   Remember that conversation? Writing that review was fun. I want to do it again.

00:34:47   Number two, I've been very critical of Sage Manager on the iPad.

00:34:51   However, I do believe Apple is listening, and I'm optimistic for iPadOS 17. Fingers crossed.

00:34:57   I do believe that. Even though we just talked about how they hate feedback.

00:35:01   They don't change multitasking. Well, that's the multitasking team.

00:35:04   But if a manager somewhere tells them, "Look, you've got to do it," then they've got to do it.

00:35:08   Number three, give me the headset. I'm all in. I want to start reviewing XROS annually too.

00:35:14   Let me work in VR, AR, and all the Rs out there. Let's get weird with this thing and have some fun.

00:35:21   Little birthday hat emoji.

00:35:24   So this is to summarize, give me iOS 17 because I had a good time with the review last year.

00:35:32   I'm pretty confident that Sage Manager will get better on the iPad. I cannot wait for the headset.

00:35:39   And I thought I want to get a vibe check from you both to see how you're feeling because we're going to be there.

00:35:47   In 10 days' time, we will know what we will get.

00:35:52   For people that aren't following, that haven't got the full experience, we're all going to be in Cupertino.

00:36:01   Federico and I will be going to the keynote. I'm actually going to do it this time.

00:36:06   Steven can't make it Monday, but we'll be around post.

00:36:11   Yes, I'll be there Tuesday through Thursday.

00:36:14   I was thinking, I remember last time, we were all really understated about what was going on.

00:36:23   Me and Steven were going, we were very understated.

00:36:25   What turned out to be for good reason, because COVID was a thing, and one of us, I don't know who, but one of us got it and couldn't go.

00:36:33   And so this time I am choosing to celebrate the fact that it's happening.

00:36:40   The opposite approach.

00:36:42   I'm taking the opposite approach, so I'm very excited.

00:36:45   Steven mentioned something on his blog today, which is wild, that it's his 10th WWDC.

00:36:50   So this will be my 10th WWDC, well, 10 years since, right?

00:36:53   Like 10 years since I went to one the first time.

00:36:56   Our first WWDC was 2013. So it'll be pretty great.

00:37:00   We almost had to share a bed.

00:37:02   Yes, because Steven booked wrong, but we dodged that at the last minute.

00:37:05   We did.

00:37:06   I'm very excited. I'm obviously very excited to go to a keynote, and I am selfishly very excited that maybe my first keynote experience will be the introduction of a brand new platform.

00:37:17   Feels like a pretty good one to start with.

00:37:19   Pretty sweet.

00:37:20   And just in general, I'm pumped.

00:37:23   Like, I am expecting huge, my expectations are very high for what they will be showing off during the keynote.

00:37:33   And I am very excited about the headset. I have been for a long time.

00:37:37   Like, I think this is going to be a really interesting product, and I believe that they have to have something almost iPhone-like for it to work and to really blow people away.

00:37:48   And I'm going to choose to believe that they've got that.

00:37:51   Yeah, I mean, I'm in that camp too.

00:37:53   And I think it was fate that you were supposed to go to your first keynote and it was this product, and it couldn't be last year.

00:38:03   And obviously the circumstances were not ideal, but everything that happened was meant to take you here to this moment.

00:38:12   That's how I've been choosing to think about it too.

00:38:15   That's the right approach.

00:38:16   If my first keynote experience includes something like this, like a brand new product platform, then I'm not going to --

00:38:25   I would say at this point, I am over it.

00:38:28   I'm over what happened last year anyway, like I have been for a long time.

00:38:32   It became funny to me after a certain period of time.

00:38:36   It didn't take very long before I actually could see the irony in the whole situation.

00:38:42   So now it will all be just like very worth it. I'm very excited about it.

00:38:47   Yeah, I was so excited that my first one was in 2019 with the new Mac Pro.

00:38:53   I always feel like I have a connection to that machine and that announcement because I was in the room.

00:39:01   Kind of the same thing with 2013, right?

00:39:03   Like, Iowa 7, that's been 10 years, by the way.

00:39:06   I don't know how that's possible.

00:39:08   But Iowa 7 and the trash can Mac Pro, you remember sort of your first experience as our careers have gone on.

00:39:16   So that is --

00:39:17   Well, my most significant memory of Iowa 7 and WWDC is me and you sitting in our hotel room.

00:39:26   You had installed it on your iPhone and your phone was both hot to the touch and you could watch the battery go down.

00:39:35   Like you could just sit and watch the percentage tick away.

00:39:38   And this was Steven's iPhone iPhone.

00:39:40   Yeah.

00:39:41   That was so funny.

00:39:42   That was the year they had the iPod touch come out with the cheap one without a camera.

00:39:46   I think you bought one.

00:39:48   I didn't want to put Iowa 7 on it because it wasn't going to put it on my iPhone.

00:39:52   Yeah, I did that when I got home.

00:39:54   I think I'm a bit cooler on the headset front than the two of y'all are.

00:40:00   I have less experience with the sort of those types of products.

00:40:05   I'm not really a gamer.

00:40:07   So my excitement about this is much more academic in terms of there's a new platform that's always super interesting.

00:40:15   It comes with a new set of things for engineers and developers to solve.

00:40:20   Super interested in how the UI is going to work, how it's going to interface with the phone and your other devices.

00:40:26   All of that to me is super exciting to see.

00:40:29   I'm also excited to see just the story they tell about this, because clearly people with an Apple feel very strongly about this product and they've been working on it for a long time.

00:40:40   And so for me, the story is almost more exciting than the product itself.

00:40:45   And I'm sure that will change once it's out.

00:40:48   And I think we'll all be pretty pumped for it.

00:40:51   I'm also just intrigued about the rest of the stuff, right?

00:40:54   The headset is going to suck a lot of air out of the room and what else, like where do the other things fit in?

00:41:02   I've kind of assumed it's going to be a quiet year elsewhere.

00:41:04   I mean, there's lots of rumors about watchOS 10, which I think is really exciting.

00:41:08   I'm very excited about that because watchOS 9 just does not take advantage of the Apple watch Ultra very well.

00:41:14   And maybe this new UI would be crafted with bigger watches in mind.

00:41:18   So that's all exciting.

00:41:20   Irrespective of that, watchOS is just old and creaky.

00:41:23   It could do with some love.

00:41:25   It needs its iOS 7 moment, like for all of the good things that iOS 7 brought, which was like, let's actually do all of it again, like the whole thing.

00:41:34   So I would like to interrupt this program for some breaking news that I hope I get to share with the two of you first.

00:41:44   Breaking news?

00:41:45   This is really news.

00:41:46   This is more like breaking assumption or like breaking knowledge, breaking information.

00:41:50   Breaking knowledge, what?

00:41:52   The thing about that WWDC, what that means is on June 19th, the three of us have been podcasting together for 10 years.

00:42:01   Yeah, it's on my calendar and I have a to-do-ist thing to plan 10th year anniversary.

00:42:07   Well, that's the first you shared with us about the situation.

00:42:10   It was due next week.

00:42:11   How incredible is that? 10 years!

00:42:14   It's amazing. No.

00:42:15   No, it can be. 10?

00:42:18   Well, I mean, I just looked at prompt episode one, June 19th, 2013.

00:42:22   Because Mike and I recorded the last episode of the 512 podcast at WWDC, I think.

00:42:28   Yep, we did. I think there was an ironing board. I think we were recording on an ironing board or something.

00:42:33   Probably. Some things don't change. Recording in hotel rooms is still bad.

00:42:38   We don't record on ironing boards anymore, though.

00:42:40   No.

00:42:41   We do actually make sure we have tables.

00:42:43   I do. I am right now.

00:42:45   Oh, good, good, good. Keeping it real over there. Federico knows his roots.

00:42:49   Ironing my clothes as I talk about the headset.

00:42:53   He's getting ready for travel.

00:42:54   The thing I'm most excited about this WWDC, honestly, is conquering the rookies and putting the two of you in your place.

00:43:01   I know.

00:43:02   Well, it took you a long time to get to that thing we spoke about at the start of the show.

00:43:06   I'm sorry. The Vision told me you're going to lose, Steven.

00:43:12   Was this like your version of my Mac mini dream?

00:43:16   No, see, the Vision is more like an entity. Like the black smoke thing in Lost, but it's made of glitter. Yeah.

00:43:24   Oh, wow.

00:43:26   I have so many concerns. Not questions. I have concerns. I have straight up concerns about you.

00:43:31   Yeah, what concerns? Well, you see, I think the two of you have forgotten that Johnny Ive told me I was going to win.

00:43:37   Did you also have like a group chat with some other people?

00:43:39   You saw him at Tesco?

00:43:41   Tesco? Where?

00:43:43   Yeah. I did. Remember I did see him that time.

00:43:46   But not at Tesco.

00:43:48   Not at Tesco. It was in an Apple store. He told me then it was like a prophecy.

00:43:52   He's like in 2023.

00:43:55   Right.

00:43:57   Spoiler alert. The queen will die. I was like, Whoa, Johnny, why are you telling me this?

00:44:01   Jeez.

00:44:02   And we're going to get a new king. And at that same time, you will become champion of the rookies.

00:44:07   And I think I said to him, What's the rookies? Because I think that would have been enough time then. Maybe that wasn't happening.

00:44:13   Right.

00:44:14   And he's like, You'll see.

00:44:15   You will know. By then you will know.

00:44:17   But then everything will become clear to you, my son. And I was like, Oh, Papa.

00:44:22   My son.

00:44:23   And then that was the end of it.

00:44:25   This is really just spiraling into a whole thing.

00:44:27   Uh-huh.

00:44:29   It's complicated.

00:44:31   When press invites went out, a bunch of reporting surfaced that a bunch of VR people, like VR journalists, AR people have been invited.

00:44:43   We saw that again, going back to the watch.

00:44:45   Right. There were a bunch of fashion people there for the first couple of Apple watches.

00:44:49   And now we see this happening again maybe.

00:44:53   So it really feels like this is the time.

00:44:56   I think if this wasn't ready, we would be seeing something,

00:45:00   you know, Wall Street Journal-y, you know, like, Oh, hey, it's not quite time yet.

00:45:04   But Apple's not trying to stamp out the excitement about this at all.

00:45:09   That's definitely a thing, right?

00:45:11   We said about like they would probably try and put something out in the press.

00:45:14   But as you mentioned, like the most clear thing is here are a bunch of outlets that we don't necessarily always invite.

00:45:20   Oh, and by the way, they're VR focused individuals or publications.

00:45:24   Like, can you imagine?

00:45:26   Maybe it's just that we're going to have another one of those Darth Vader games.

00:45:29   Do you remember that? When they had that HTC Vive thing?

00:45:32   2017. It was the same year as the iMac Pro.

00:45:35   Here's a thought. If they do a demo area for the headset, will they call it instead of a hands-on area, a heads-on area?

00:45:44   Eyes-on.

00:45:45   Eyes-on area.

00:45:46   Face-on area.

00:45:47   Face-on.

00:45:48   Now, heads-on.

00:45:50   I was thinking about this today.

00:45:52   If they do have like a hands-on for people to try the headset,

00:45:57   which I don't think they will, by the way.

00:45:59   I think you can come and look at the hardware, but not try it on.

00:46:03   One of the things here is like prescription lenses.

00:46:06   There is no way for them to manage that.

00:46:08   I'm so glad you mentioned that.

00:46:10   Did the Glitter Vision say something about that?

00:46:13   Amongst the many things the Vision told me to do, the Vision was like get new eyeglasses.

00:46:19   No, but seriously, I needed to get new eyeglasses, new prescription glasses,

00:46:23   because the lenses on my old ones were like damaged or something.

00:46:28   I couldn't clean them anymore.

00:46:29   Do you ever wear contact lenses?

00:46:31   No, I'm super opposed to that.

00:46:33   Because that would be the thing.

00:46:35   I cannot do it.

00:46:36   I can't do it.

00:46:37   Plus, I just like wearing glasses, but I feel like that would be the key if you wanted to have a smooth experience.

00:46:43   I think both of us, it's true that neither of our Visions is that bad.

00:46:47   Like I could use VR without too much trouble.

00:46:50   Ah, minus, yeah.

00:46:54   Especially the left eye.

00:46:56   Yeah, right, I could do that.

00:46:58   No, but I got new eyeglasses and I had the doctor at the store print out the specs of the lenses

00:47:08   because I needed to do the whole checkup thing, so I have the numbers.

00:47:11   In case Apple has, I was thinking like, hey, what if Apple maybe has a fancy system where they can do lens correction in software?

00:47:21   And so I just figured, hey, I'm just going to print out the data, take a picture, and have it with me.

00:47:28   In case I get to try it on and in case they have some fancy software system to sort of account for that.

00:47:36   I really hope that's how they deal with that rather than, I really hope there is a way, I don't know if that technology exists genuinely.

00:47:44   Yeah, me neither.

00:47:45   But I would love it if that was a thing that they could do rather than needing to get a prescription version of the lenses.

00:47:53   They may potentially, if they're doing demos for people, maybe they would be able to confirm with you in advance and they could just put the lenses in.

00:48:02   Who knows?

00:48:03   But I was thinking that is a thing that is not usually a problem, that if there were demos that they would have to potentially be customizable for certain people.

00:48:14   It's not a thing that I think they would usually have to consider in a hands-on area, where really you're going and typing on the keyboard or you're putting the watch on your wrist or whatever.

00:48:25   Because Jason was talking on upgrade about when they first showed up to Apple Watch, Federico, you were at the second one, right?

00:48:33   When they actually like, it's on sale, right?

00:48:35   Yeah.

00:48:36   But with the first one, you could go and put it on and it was just on a loop, you couldn't interact with it.

00:48:42   And in theory, you could do that with the headset, right?

00:48:44   They're not going to have you use the software, but you could put it on and it will show you a bunch of things on a loop so you get a slice of the experience.

00:48:53   But if you need to take your glasses off, some people aren't going to be able to see what's on the screens.

00:48:58   So it's just an interesting wrinkle. We'll find out in a couple of weeks if we'll have a deal with it.

00:49:02   The dream scenario, the dream scenario, if, that's a giant if, if they do briefings for the headset, because my theory is there's not going to be a press queue to try the headset, right?

00:49:18   Imagine like 300.

00:49:20   There might be.

00:49:21   Well, sure there might be. I don't think they will.

00:49:24   Realistically, like here's the thing, I don't know, you guys have done this, but like, how is that different to any other product, right?

00:49:29   There's always like a queue of people who want to try and get in touch the thing, right?

00:49:32   Yeah, but it's more involved. It's more involved and it strikes me as the kind of scenario in which you want to do, it might be preferred to do a one-on-one briefing where you sit down, they give you the headset, you put it on and they guide you through this brand new thing.

00:49:50   Like instead of like in a room full of people, they get your full attention. And if that's the case, if they do briefings for the headset and you get to try it on in person, in a privately with a bunch of PR people, it would be fun if the briefing was in VR.

00:50:08   Like if other PR people were also quote unquote in the briefing with you.

00:50:14   I think that would make a lot of sense because a lot of what you want is to give the sense of the presence. Like that's actually a very important, it's an important thing in VR anyway.

00:50:24   And seems like a thing that has been referenced multiple times by Mark Gurman, right? That like that's what they're trying to sell. So if they could have like, yes, you're now like put this on and you're in a 3D recreation of the room you're in.

00:50:38   Yeah. Yeah. And like, again, I know nothing. I'm just, it literally came to my mind right now. Like I don't even know if they're doing briefings for this thing. Like I have no idea.

00:50:51   How could you not? Right. There's no way of knowing because the product doesn't exist in the public.

00:50:56   The product doesn't exist. And yeah, it doesn't exist.

00:51:00   I reckon the hands-on area would, they would have them and you could just look at the hardware, right?

00:51:05   Like in a glass thing?

00:51:07   No, no. Like I don't want it on the desk, right? But they're just not on. Right? Like here's the thing. You can come and see it. Like this is what it looks like, but we're not doing the thing today. Like you can't turn them on, but here it is. Come take a look at it. Take some pictures of it. Put it on your face, but it's not doing anything.

00:51:24   Because the software is probably not ready for that. Right? To like let 300 people just go at it and go wild. Like it's probably still, if they're not going to ship it for another six months or whatever, this thing is probably still stuck together with glue in places.

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00:53:52   Boys, I have a confession to make. I have been a bad podcaster. Logic and Final Cut are both available on iPad. We knew this was happening.

00:54:01   I thought it was about sponsor money.

00:54:03   I've taken all the money. The money is mine now. I've also stolen. Not only am I stealing from Federico in person, I am now stealing from him in every other manner possible. Sorry Federico.

00:54:15   Behind the scenes. Alright, cool.

00:54:17   I promise to look after you while we travel, but I will steal from you. Is that fair?

00:54:21   Yeah, I get it. I get it.

00:54:23   It's a fair trade off.

00:54:24   Would you rather be robbed by somebody you know or a stranger?

00:54:27   That's a good question.

00:54:29   I don't know the answer to that question. I don't think I, I don't know if I have it. They're like two sets of complicated feelings.

00:54:36   Yeah. No, by a stranger. Definitely by a stranger because you can, you can hate a stranger without feeling bad about it. You can hate a friend. Oh, that's going to suck.

00:54:48   You can't hate me.

00:54:49   No. Also true. Is a very lovable individual.

00:54:53   I'm too lovable. Even when I'm stealing from you. Anyway, this is not my confession. My confession is I have not used either Final Cut or Logic on iPad. I've had a very strange couple of days. Everything's fine, but I've just not had the ability to be able to try them.

00:55:10   What I have done is read lots of reviews and watch lots of YouTube videos to kind of, so if, if either of you tried these applications?

00:55:19   Logic very briefly because I had no idea what I was doing.

00:55:24   Same. And I don't have an iPad that's mine that can run Final Cut.

00:55:28   Okay. So we're all, and you know what then? I, we're all bad. Basically.

00:55:33   Yeah, we're all bad.

00:55:34   However, we've read the reviews. We can talk about-

00:55:36   Our dads are fighting. Can we say this? Jason and John?

00:55:40   Our dads hate each other.

00:55:41   Yeah. They don't agree. They're, they're mastadoning at each other. It's very upsetting for us kids.

00:55:46   They're fighting. It's like, you know, dead, dead and dead are fighting and-

00:55:51   And it's making us very sad. We're hiding. It's not good. I actually feel like I, I think I understand why they're fighting. Would you like me to try and explain this?

00:56:03   I don't think they're fighting, but yes. Okay.

00:56:05   No, they're fighting. It's vicious. It's very, it's brutal. It's very mean.

00:56:11   Look, I've been marked away in Slack for three days just to avoid this. So.

00:56:15   Okay. So here's what's going on in regards to Logic, right?

00:56:21   So Jason Snell of Six Colors says that Logic is built for music and not doable to get it to work for podcasting.

00:56:30   So read a quote from Jason. Splitting clips. So like you've got clips of audio, splitting clips requires toggling to separate split mode, selecting a clip and swiping down or alternatively tapping and holding on a clip to bring up a contextual menu, then selecting split clip from the split sub-menu.

00:56:47   Split clip.

00:56:48   Put this into a bit of context for if you're not a podcast editor. If you are editing a podcast, you are splitting clips hundreds of times during the edit. If it's a you like you're listening back and going through it. It is a very, very frequent thing.

00:57:02   And so if you're using touch, which is what Jason used mostly, that is a pretty terrible experience where you are entering these modes that you have to like, I'm in split mode, I'm in trim mode. So OTJ did edit an entire episode of Mac stories on wind on Logic and said,

00:57:23   what I found is that Logic Pro for iPad is a remarkably capable alternative version to the Mac version. The app comes with limitations and frustrations like any first version of a complex new app, but it's also the real deal.

00:57:36   The design is so well done, I can use it on my iPad mini. Editing podcast is absolutely doable, but there are definitely places where the process could be streamlined.

00:57:45   John also mentions it's lacking keyboard shortcuts for editing purposes and takes a lot of poking and tapping and also talks about the needing to enter a mode to split tracks.

00:57:56   And then to delete, you have to change into a different mode to then be able to delete. And these can only be activated by clicking on screen buttons. There are no gestures or shortcuts.

00:58:06   The way I am looking at this is they both have experienced the same thing, but John is saying it's possible. Jason is saying it's unrealistic.

00:58:16   And I think that both of them would agree in the sense that I expect this is the one and only episode of Mac stories on wide that will be edited in Logic for iPad.

00:58:26   Right? Maybe John can confirm that.

00:58:29   I'm not sure. It seemed very convinced to me.

00:58:34   When I read John's review though, like I, I feel like he likes it, but is suffering from the same thing of like, this is less efficient. Why would you do that?

00:58:45   Because, because of what you said, he likes it. Even though it's not ideal, I got the sense from him that he really liked it.

00:58:56   Like the idea of like, at the end of the day, he needs to edit an episode and he's just gonna, you know, be on the couch with his iPad, editing in Logic.

00:59:05   Like, I think the thing that stood out to me from the story, which I edited, was that he really liked it.

00:59:14   And then I texted him when I messaged him, I was like, I was not expecting this sort of conclusion from you.

00:59:22   And it's like, yeah, I really liked it. Like I liked the feeling of using it, even though like it's not great and it doesn't have keyboard shortcuts and like all the limitations that he mentioned.

00:59:31   And he mentioned a lot of them and I'm pretty sure that he also brought those up privately with Apple.

00:59:39   But he ultimately like it. It's like, I really like it. I just like using it.

00:59:44   He did to say, I prefer it to using the Mac version on a laptop, but that's the key though, right? On a laptop.

00:59:52   That doesn't mean always, but like if he's got to edit on a laptop, which I don't think is where he edits the shows most of the time, right?

01:00:00   Then maybe he would choose to use it there. But I don't know if that means that he would use it always.

01:00:07   I have no doubt that OTJ will provide follow up at some point on this.

01:00:12   And maybe he needs more time to like really have that idea embedded.

01:00:17   But basically the way that I, what I'm reading from this is like, I don't need to try this to know how it's going to make me feel.

01:00:25   Like I know this isn't going to work for me because these days really, the most serious editing that I do is for Cortex.

01:00:37   And with the way that I edit that show, I make thousands of cuts during the two hour audio.

01:00:44   I'm not going to sit and press six buttons every time I need to do that. Like I'm not going to do that.

01:00:49   Like it's just, it's inefficient. It's like a waste of my time, you know, and I'm doing this for work.

01:00:54   Because on the Mac, you can split a clip wherever your cursor is with a keyboard shortcut.

01:00:59   And I get the sense with both of these apps that while we talked about how they seem to a degree to change or morph modally,

01:01:09   like based on what input devices you're using, it feels like they fall back too much on, okay, touch is first.

01:01:18   And if there were some keyboard shortcuts or like Jason has talked about in ferrite where there's,

01:01:23   I think it's a double finger tap on the screen will add a cut in ferrite on the iPad that Apple hasn't gone down that road,

01:01:31   that they've sort of fallen back to menus and touching things on the screen where that's not always the fastest thing.

01:01:39   And when you're editing either audio or video, your hands really are horizontal most of the time.

01:01:45   You're panning and zooming around, you know, with a trackpad using keyboards or cuts in a mouse.

01:01:50   And they've sort of given up some of that on the iPad. But I'm not sure for what I'm not sure what they've gained by leaving those more traditional services behind.

01:02:00   Just as a like a point, Final Cut has more keyboard shortcuts, including for making cuts,

01:02:09   because Final Cut is the same thing that if you are using touch or a trackpad,

01:02:15   then you have to like sometimes press a button before you can make a cut because you like have to go in and out of these like different modes of the app.

01:02:23   But if you're playing the timeline in, you can use like compress B as the blade tool and cut.

01:02:30   So like it has more keyboard shortcuts for the operation of the app than logic does.

01:02:37   But even Final Cut on iPad doesn't have all of the keyboard shortcuts that Final Cut on the Mac has.

01:02:43   I found that from Vjurjampavic's review on The Verge because he would like put the keyboard case on and said,

01:02:50   "This is how I'm more comfortable." And he was saying like he was frustrated that he couldn't easily cut the whole thing.

01:02:56   Like he would when he was using touch or the Apple pencil.

01:02:59   But he could when he had it in the keyboard, the Magic Keyboard.

01:03:03   My kind of feeling on like looking at both logic and Final Cut, we can talk about Final Cut too,

01:03:08   is just like these applications and what they can do and what they can't do or what they do better or worse than the Mac.

01:03:16   Just feels emblematic of my feeling about the iPad now in general, which is you can make it work.

01:03:24   It's not necessarily the most efficient or powerful at a certain task, but you have easier access to it everywhere.

01:03:32   Like an iPad just is more portable and as Federico say more modern than a laptop, right?

01:03:37   Like if you want to reduce the weight of your bag that day, you could just not bring the keyboard and you would be able to get everything done.

01:03:43   Like it would be fine. That is not a thing you can do with your laptop.

01:03:47   You can't just like leave the keyboard.

01:03:49   But really it's like everything is going to take a little bit more work from you, right?

01:03:56   Then it's going to be on a Mac.

01:03:58   Like and I found this that, you know, using Google Docs, for example, you have to like double tap to get into the editing.

01:04:06   I don't have to do that on the Mac. Like the cursor is just there and I can just start typing.

01:04:10   Like everything takes an extra tap or an extra step.

01:04:14   And for a long time I was very happy to do that because I preferred to use the iPad.

01:04:19   But over time I just diverged a little bit and I've gone in a different direction.

01:04:25   Like none of these things are bad. It's just about what your priorities are.

01:04:29   And like for example, if John decided that his priority right now was he wants to be able to edit the show from the garden deck.

01:04:38   And like the iPad is the best way for him to do that. That's his priority, right?

01:04:44   And so like he's just going to choose that.

01:04:46   But Jason's priority, my priority, and I think both of your priorities is I want to be able to get my work done most efficiently.

01:04:53   Because then I'm able to produce more and also have more time for myself.

01:04:57   And for me, using Logic on the Mac is the way that I'm going to do that rather than using Logic on the iPad.

01:05:05   Yeah, I think the reason, I think what you said about the iPad is so true that historically it's always been more limited.

01:05:13   And the way you, you know, a lot of us made up for it was that even with those limitations, if you liked it, if you liked using it,

01:05:25   your sort of the, just the sheer fact that you loved multi-touch and, you know, having a modular setup, it made up for all those limitations.

01:05:40   And I think the reason this broke me for a minute and why like it caused so much confusion in my setup for the past six months was that

01:05:53   I reached a point where I didn't like using the iPad anymore with Stage Manager.

01:05:59   Like that's the, it was all that balance, right?

01:06:02   Everything was in balance of like, okay, I know that the iPad is more limited, but the fact that I like it makes up for all those problems.

01:06:11   But what happens when you don't like it anymore?

01:06:14   Then all those problems, they come back altogether suddenly and you realize, you know, if you break that balance, then it's a huge problem.

01:06:24   And that's what I experienced, you know, for the past several months.

01:06:29   And so that's why I'm also optimistic about like fixes to Stage Manager in iPadOS 17.

01:06:36   Because like, and I told this before, like I'm using the Mac and I really, I really love it.

01:06:42   I really like it.

01:06:43   I really like it.

01:06:44   This MacBook Air is incredible, but it's not, it doesn't have touch.

01:06:48   And I really miss that.

01:06:50   And I will keep repeating this until it comes true.

01:06:54   I really miss having a computer with a screen that I can touch.

01:06:59   You know, I agree with you.

01:07:01   You got to like it.

01:07:03   You got to like it to make up for those limitations.

01:07:05   And if you don't, there's a Mac.

01:07:08   I think too, it is worth remembering that we approach this from the angle of we are professionals who use these tools in the Mac and have for a long time.

01:07:17   Like I've been editing in Logic for eight years now, probably seven, eight years.

01:07:21   But for people who are not us, who are just starting out, maybe they're iPad only.

01:07:27   There are a lot of those people out there.

01:07:28   This is an incredible tool to have available and it makes the iPad be able to do things that it has not been able to do before for those types of users.

01:07:39   And, you know, don't hear I'm not saying, I'm not saying John or Jason aren't saying that, but I do think it's worth remembering that it is a great thing that these are here.

01:07:51   Even if it's not exactly what we want for our workflows, I'm still glad they're here.

01:07:56   And hopefully Apple can make it work for more people over time.

01:08:00   But I think that's gotten lost a little bit.

01:08:03   It's sort of nerds have debated this and I don't want to lose track of that.

01:08:07   I think one of the important things is we spent a lot of time talking about Logic, right?

01:08:11   Because Logic is what we are closest to.

01:08:15   But fundamentally, we are not using this music tool for what this music tool is supposed to be used for.

01:08:21   So these are the criticisms of people that are using an app in a way that is like it works, but it's not necessarily intended.

01:08:30   And again, you can still do that, but to make that work on the iPad version, you need to approach it in a different way.

01:08:36   So we already got used to breaking Logic in the ways that we got used to breaking Logic on the Mac.

01:08:42   And it just feels normal to us.

01:08:44   And now you'd have to find new ways to break Logic on iPad.

01:08:48   But what I wanted to touch on a little bit more was Final Cut.

01:08:51   Because Tyler Storman's review I've really enjoyed.

01:08:55   Because he showed me kind of who I think this is meant for.

01:09:02   This is for content creators.

01:09:04   But I mean that in the sense of Final Cut on the Mac, right?

01:09:09   That is an application which is intended to be used by television.

01:09:15   It's intended to be used by cinema.

01:09:18   Right? Like that is what it was made for.

01:09:20   And that is I think who it is, who they're still trying to build for.

01:09:25   Right? Like this is big professional stuff.

01:09:30   Right? Your large YouTube channels, let's all use Final Cut.

01:09:34   Like he was showing like how he made an Instagram reel on Final Cut on iPad.

01:09:42   And it was like, that makes a lot of sense.

01:09:44   It's more than trying to make it in TikTok, the TikTok app.

01:09:48   It's more than trying to make it in Spark camera or maybe even LumaFusion.

01:09:54   But it's not, and we're not trying to say here like,

01:09:58   "Hey, why don't you make your next episode of your television show in this scenario?"

01:10:04   Yet. Right?

01:10:05   Like these are all still 1.0s.

01:10:07   They took too long to get to 1.0.

01:10:09   But they are still 1.0.

01:10:10   So they can all change in every possible way we would like.

01:10:13   Like his video, I really encourage people go and use it.

01:10:17   It was a different take to what I've seen.

01:10:19   And by and large, I think he's the most positive that I've found on it.

01:10:22   I think because he is coming at it as like, I do a bunch of different things with video.

01:10:27   For this kind of stuff, for this content, which is content I produce all the time,

01:10:32   it has everything I need by and large.

01:10:35   Like some of the stuff that was missing, the same thing that Vjur and Perfic was talking about,

01:10:39   like color correction and color grading just basically doesn't exist,

01:10:43   which is like a really strange omission.

01:10:45   They have tools, but they don't work very well.

01:10:47   And where this is best is like, oh, if you're already using your iPhone footage

01:10:52   because you don't have to do that work to it.

01:10:54   And there's stuff of animations that are missing.

01:10:56   But like Tyler says, this is the best video interface I've used on an iPad for editing.

01:11:01   And when I'm looking at it, it's like both Jason, Jon, and everyone else,

01:11:06   it's like people seem to really like the jog wheel as like a precise method

01:11:11   of moving things backwards and forwards and zooming in.

01:11:14   Also Tyler just did like a really good, like this is how I make an edit.

01:11:17   And I was looking at it and I'm like, you know what, that does actually look pretty nice.

01:11:20   But like for me, like I don't understand how to use Final Cut.

01:11:24   Like I use Final Cut, but Final Cut is way too complicated for me.

01:11:28   And the next time that I'm putting something together where I'm just using footage on my iPhone,

01:11:33   I may actually just grab this and use this.

01:11:36   Like I think I'm much more personally excited about my own use cases for Final Cut on iPad

01:11:42   than Logic on iPad.

01:11:44   Yeah. And that's sort of the audience I'm talking about, right?

01:11:47   People who are making everything on a phone and they've been doing it a long time.

01:11:53   And Apple has been, I mean, they took a long time to do this,

01:11:57   but they've been losing ground to other tools on their own platform.

01:12:01   I can see an Apple marketing person talking like, yes, like we need to get the kids in here and use this.

01:12:07   And when those creators do move up in the world or they get a job on a TV show or whatever it is,

01:12:14   they're already going to be familiar with this.

01:12:16   And when they move to Final Cut on the Mac, heck maybe by then it is the same app,

01:12:21   but at least the concepts and the sort of feeling will be the same.

01:12:26   And we can't underestimate that.

01:12:28   It's super important for them long term to get people in the ecosystem.

01:12:34   It's why Google eating their lunch and education is kind of concerning in a lot of ways,

01:12:38   because a bunch of kids are going to grow up using Chromebooks and think that's what computers should be.

01:12:43   And that's how much computers should cost.

01:12:44   And Apple's got to, they got to contend with that too.

01:12:47   But it is interesting to see this kind of play out, I think, over the next few years

01:12:53   and really try to understand that this market is different from the market we're in.

01:12:57   And that's totally cool and one that Apple should be in.

01:13:01   But they should also make sure they're adding some of these features that should be in.

01:13:05   Yes.

01:13:06   And like the goal is like create this really great starting point with this new UI

01:13:12   and like try and focus it around this new platform.

01:13:15   But as you mentioned, right, the goal should be move this to be feature comparable with the Mac version.

01:13:22   Find a way to do it, you know.

01:13:25   And if that's hard, then start a long time ago.

01:13:29   I think they'll get there. I think they have to.

01:13:31   And, you know, I think it's way too early to like try to guess if this is in the Mac versions or on like a collision course.

01:13:39   I have no idea.

01:13:41   But at the very least, they need to be able to continue to move it forward because these users that, you know,

01:13:47   who I think are really excited about it, they're going to want more.

01:13:51   Right. And Apple's got to kind of keep up with Joneses there.

01:13:55   Well, if you want to find links to the stories we spoke about this week, head over to the website relay.fm/connected/451.

01:14:03   Those links are also in your podcast app.

01:14:05   You can check those out. A couple other links I want to draw your attention to.

01:14:08   You can leave us feedback.

01:14:11   That link goes to our website. There's a little form you can fill out and we collect all those.

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01:14:21   What's cool about this is you can subscribe to connected pro and any podcast app that you're already using, basically.

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01:14:44   for all of our members. They've been a lot of fun to listen to and to make.

01:14:48   You can find us all online. You can find Mike at a bunch of other shows here on relay.fm.

01:14:54   And he is on Mastodon at Mike.social. You can find him there as iMike.

01:15:01   He's also the co-founder of Cortex brand.

01:15:04   Federico is the editor in chief of Mac stories.net, home of automation April.

01:15:08   We talked about that last week. If you somehow missed that conversation,

01:15:11   go look at the winners of their shortcuts. Battle Royale. Lots of great stuff in there.

01:15:18   So good. So good this year. You can find Federico also on Mastodon at Vatici at Mastodon.Macstories.net

01:15:27   You can find me on Mac power users every Sunday here on relay.fm and I write 512 pixels.net

01:15:32   and you can find me on Mastodon as ismh@eworld.social

01:15:36   I'd like to thank our sponsors this week. They were Squarespace, Nom Nom, and Dark Noise.

01:15:41   And until next time guys, say goodbye.

01:15:44   Adios to you.

01:15:45   It's Ricky's next week.

01:15:46   Next week.

01:15:47   Next week's the Ricky's.