461: The WWDC Keynote Draft 2023


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:10   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 461, and it is the WWDC keynote draft for 2023.

00:00:23   This episode is brought to you by Nom Nom and Dark Noise.

00:00:26   My name is Mike Hurley and I am joined by my competitor in the draft, Jason Snow.

00:00:34   You're going down, Mike, is that what competitors say?

00:00:37   Welcome, hello.

00:00:38   You can say that.

00:00:39   Welcome to the Octagon, where two podcasters enter and both leave, but one of them will

00:00:44   win next time.

00:00:45   Yes, this time we will both enter and both leave.

00:00:48   And both leave?

00:00:49   Next time, one will win.

00:00:50   But we'll still both leave, but they'll be a winner.

00:00:53   Yeah.

00:00:54   I have a Snow Talk question for you.

00:00:56   Okay.

00:00:57   It comes from me and I would like to know, one week out from WWDC, how are your vibes?

00:01:02   You excited?

00:01:03   Yeah, I am.

00:01:04   I am.

00:01:05   I mean, we always talk about this and it's always like, oh, it's a lot of work, right?

00:01:09   And I don't even have a trip, right?

00:01:11   It's literally, I just drive down.

00:01:13   It's not that, it's all, you're coming to California.

00:01:15   It's a whole thing.

00:01:16   And for me, it's just like, but I'll tell you, not only am I always interested in the

00:01:22   resetting of the Apple software year and what are the new OS is going to be and all that,

00:01:25   and it's like so much about like, what are they, what are their focuses and what are

00:01:29   they going to say and what are we going to be focusing on in our jobs for the next year?

00:01:33   I mean, it's a big deal, but it's not every day Apple launches an entirely new platform,

00:01:37   hardware and software.

00:01:38   And, uh, this been, you know, you say about it's the next year, right?

00:01:43   This one is like years.

00:01:44   Yeah.

00:01:45   That's the difference.

00:01:46   Yeah.

00:01:47   Yeah.

00:01:48   No, this is, this is, I mean, really, I would say probably since the Apple watch that we've

00:01:52   had something of this scope.

00:01:54   And if what we assume is going to happen is going to happen.

00:01:57   So that is extra exciting because those moments are special.

00:02:02   And although there's this public perception out there that like Apple releases a new revolutionary

00:02:07   product every year, or they used to, but they don't anymore, like it's never been true.

00:02:12   It's very rare that you get one of these moments, but here we are.

00:02:16   And this one's particularly interesting because so much of it is sort of a mystery.

00:02:20   I know that there have been all these leaks and all these features and all that, but like,

00:02:25   I, it's what I always say about Apple events, but like exploded several more times, which

00:02:30   is what's the narrative, what do they emphasize?

00:02:33   What are some of the details?

00:02:35   Like we know a lot about like the bill of lading for this thing, but we don't know a

00:02:39   lot about like the philosophy behind it and how they've structured the operating system

00:02:43   and, and, and clever little details that are going to make you go, Oh, of course.

00:02:48   Um, that's the stuff that I'm really looking forward to.

00:02:52   It's like my kind of feeling of this one right now, the headset is the first new product

00:03:00   that could have a potential effect like the iPhone.

00:03:04   I feel like the iPad, we kind of works.

00:03:08   We're excited about it.

00:03:09   I'm just like, this is new thing.

00:03:11   The Apple watch, I don't think anyone realistically expected that the Apple watch would be its

00:03:18   own revolutionary product, right?

00:03:20   That it was going to be, I mean, the press at the time though, this is, I'm not saying

00:03:24   reasonably, I'm saying the press at the time was like, Apple needs another thing and oh,

00:03:28   this is going to be the next iPhone.

00:03:30   And we, those of us like, including you and me, we're like waving our arms like, no, no,

00:03:34   no, it's not, there's not going to be another iPhone.

00:03:36   It's not, it's not this headset is not going to be that if there is going to be something,

00:03:42   I think this is the start of it.

00:03:43   Like if yeah, the glasses are the future.

00:03:47   This is the beginning.

00:03:48   So I'm very excited.

00:03:50   Obviously I'm also incredibly excited because I'm coming.

00:03:54   I'm going to be at the keynote and this time Jason, I am going to be at the keynote.

00:03:59   I have, I'm manifesting this in my mind.

00:04:03   I will be there at Apple park.

00:04:04   We'll be there together.

00:04:05   We have something fun to share about that in a little bit, but we have some rules to

00:04:11   get to for the draft.

00:04:12   This is a game of rules.

00:04:15   There are going to be 16 rounds in this year's draft, a total of 32 overall picks split into

00:04:24   five categories.

00:04:26   They will be iOS and iPadOS.

00:04:28   That is one category then headset, other, stagecraft and a bonus round for picking the

00:04:34   Mac OS name.

00:04:35   It's your favorite round.

00:04:37   It's going to be fun for everyone.

00:04:39   The winner of the previous draft gets the first pick.

00:04:41   I was the winner of the previous draft.

00:04:43   So it's me, all of the things that we pick are from a predetermined list of choices,

00:04:48   which we have been amassing.

00:04:49   We have agreed that these are all set and anything that is verifiable on screen can

00:04:57   be, is what is counted.

00:04:59   We do not put in ridiculously obvious things here.

00:05:02   Like you cannot pick, there will be a new version of iOS.

00:05:06   That's not there.

00:05:07   Yeah, there's no, there's no, there will be a headset pick, right?

00:05:10   There's none of that.

00:05:11   You got to have more detail required.

00:05:13   Yeah.

00:05:14   Uh, for an item to be counted and to be scored, uh, it must either be clearly announced on

00:05:19   stage or on a slide during the presentation.

00:05:22   So the draft is scored purely on the keynote presentation.

00:05:25   If something's in the state of the union, that's great for the state of the union.

00:05:28   It doesn't matter for the draft.

00:05:30   Right.

00:05:31   Or on the website.

00:05:32   It doesn't matter.

00:05:33   It does not matter.

00:05:34   Yeah.

00:05:35   There are no partial points awarded and Stephen Hackett will be brought into adjudicate in

00:05:38   the case of a scoring stalemate between the two of us.

00:05:41   But as we always say, we like to settle it together.

00:05:43   Yes, we do.

00:05:44   Gentlemen, gentlemen, like, uh, very gentle.

00:05:47   That's yes.

00:05:48   Sportsman like the points awarded on the episode are final and are finalized during the scoring

00:05:54   segment.

00:05:56   In the case of a tie, there is a tiebreaker question.

00:05:59   Loser will get the pick of the tiebreaker question.

00:06:02   The winner will become draft champion and will display the champion pennant.

00:06:07   Loser becomes the draft challenger and displays the challenger pennant.

00:06:11   So we have these pennants in our respective offices.

00:06:14   Mine says champion.

00:06:15   Jason's says challenger.

00:06:18   For a while now.

00:06:22   Here are the draft results for 2022.

00:06:25   I was the winner picking up both the WWDC and September wins.

00:06:30   Jason's won the March event.

00:06:31   So it was a 2-1.

00:06:33   This is the first event of 2023, which is interesting.

00:06:36   I know.

00:06:37   The history of the WWDC draft is thusly, I have won four times.

00:06:42   Jason has won three times.

00:06:44   So this is WWDC draft V-I-I-I.

00:06:48   Correct.

00:06:49   Yes.

00:06:50   I, now you said that I wish we would have made that the episode like naming convention.

00:06:58   We could have gone like WWDC V-I-I-I.

00:07:01   How fun would that be?

00:07:03   I just submitted it as a title.

00:07:04   Maybe we'll change it.

00:07:05   Who knows?

00:07:06   So at least it will be the subtitle, potentially.

00:07:10   Here is some programming notes.

00:07:12   Next week, we will be recording live together from Apple Park.

00:07:18   Looks like.

00:07:20   This will be the first time, hopefully, that the episode will have been recorded with both

00:07:24   of us together in the grounds of Apple.

00:07:27   We are currently scheduled.

00:07:28   I've been live at Apple.

00:07:29   You've been live.

00:07:30   And I was on a screen there.

00:07:32   Yes.

00:07:33   We don't need to rub it in, do we really?

00:07:36   You know?

00:07:37   See, this is Jason.

00:07:38   He's in draft mode right now.

00:07:39   The iPhone event was like that.

00:07:40   You weren't in California at all for the iPhone event and you were on a little screen.

00:07:44   Well, I was also on a screen for the WWDC one and I was also in San Jose, but that wasn't

00:07:51   super helpful for anyone.

00:07:53   But this time, no screens, hopefully, just you and me together at an undisclosed location

00:08:00   somewhere around the Apple campus.

00:08:03   We are currently scheduled to start around 1.45 PM if you listen live.

00:08:07   This could change, though, of course.

00:08:09   Please keep an eye on the Upgrade Mastodon account or in the Relay FM members Discord

00:08:13   and we will keep you updated on our going live time.

00:08:17   But we will be recording live.

00:08:18   So if you are a Relay FM member, you can listen and hang out and chat in our Discord.

00:08:23   But you can listen on the web at relay.fm/live.

00:08:27   That's 1.45 PM Pacific.

00:08:29   Pacific time.

00:08:30   Yes.

00:08:31   Cupertino time.

00:08:32   Cupertino time.

00:08:33   It's the time that we'll both be in.

00:08:34   So it's the time that we'll observe.

00:08:35   Yeah, it's the time.

00:08:37   If you would like to score along with the draft, you can get your scorecard upgrade.cards.

00:08:43   Thank you so much to Upgrading and Relay FM Discord mod Zach Knox for putting that together

00:08:48   for us as they always do.

00:08:50   It's highly appreciated.

00:08:52   You can find the whole history there of the drafts if you'd like to go through yourself.

00:08:56   And if you would like to get your very own draft shirt, you can go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com.

00:09:02   That is a permanently available item.

00:09:06   So let's get into it.

00:09:07   Let's start with a tiebreaker.

00:09:08   We have for many years done event duration.

00:09:11   And I think that that continues to be our preferred tiebreaker question.

00:09:16   So Jason, would you like to choose the time in minutes?

00:09:20   And I will go over under.

00:09:21   Right.

00:09:22   So what we have seen is thus far, Apple has done a lot of live events for WWDC that have

00:09:28   been just over two hours, sometimes a lot over if Jimmy Iovine comes out on stage and

00:09:32   rambles.

00:09:34   But their video events have been under two hours.

00:09:37   The question is with this keynote and this product that they're going to announce, are

00:09:43   they going to be able to go under two hours and show that discipline?

00:09:47   Or are they going to blow through it and put it up above 120 minutes?

00:09:51   And so I'm just going to lay it down right there, Mike.

00:09:53   Tiebreaker.

00:09:54   Are they going to break 120 minutes?

00:09:56   Or are they going to keep it under no matter what?

00:09:58   Oh, I hate this so much.

00:10:01   That's the idea.

00:10:06   My personal inclination is that it will break two hours.

00:10:11   Like I do believe that that's going to be the case.

00:10:15   So I'm going to say yes, I'm going to say over 120 minutes.

00:10:19   Okay.

00:10:20   And my personal inclination is that they won't break two hours because they've just decided

00:10:24   that's the limit.

00:10:25   And that's why I said it where I did is I thought that that's actually a natural break

00:10:29   between what you already think and what I already think.

00:10:31   So there it is.

00:10:32   It's on the line in case of a tie.

00:10:35   We'll see how long the event is.

00:10:37   I do think though, if it does, it will break it by like barely anything.

00:10:42   Like I reckon it will be like as close to two hours as they can get it.

00:10:46   Yeah.

00:10:47   It's not going to be Jimmy Iovine link.

00:10:48   That's for sure.

00:10:49   It's going to be in the ballpark of 120.

00:10:50   That WBC was horrible.

00:10:53   That was, I remember I was watching it in a, um, like an event watching party that the

00:10:59   release notes conference put on.

00:11:02   And I'm not sure if I've ever needed to use the bathroom more in my life by the end of

00:11:06   that.

00:11:07   Schmoozy showbiz services talk should not be in a WWDC key.

00:11:13   And just the amount of guests that they had and like the amount of executives they had

00:11:16   all just for Apple music.

00:11:18   That was all it was for an hour for Apple music.

00:11:20   It was so ridiculous.

00:11:21   It was not good.

00:11:22   Yeah.

00:11:23   Yeah.

00:11:24   Not great.

00:11:25   But we don't have to worry about that for this time.

00:11:27   It's going to be great.

00:11:28   Probably not.

00:11:29   You got to hope.

00:11:30   But I mean, I think one of the reasons, the problems that they had is it was just, it

00:11:33   wasn't tightly edited.

00:11:34   Right?

00:11:35   Like that was the issue.

00:11:36   Right.

00:11:37   It's it's live.

00:11:38   And if you ramble in your, on the current Apple videos, they just cut you down or cut

00:11:42   you out.

00:11:43   But back then you're on stage, you're Jimmy Iovine, you're Eddy Cue, you're out there

00:11:46   on stage.

00:11:47   There is no comical hook, vaudeville style hook to like pull you off the stage.

00:11:54   Like no, that's it.

00:11:56   That's enough.

00:11:57   So they're just out there rambling and wasting time.

00:12:00   So yeah, they don't do that anymore.

00:12:01   They'll cut you out or they'll tell you to tell you to snap it, snap it up while they're

00:12:05   recording it and just figure it out.

00:12:07   Was there Apple TV stuff in that one too?

00:12:11   I don't remember.

00:12:13   Because I...

00:12:14   That was a long time ago.

00:12:15   I believe that there was a keynote.

00:12:17   If not that one where I think it was that one that they stretched it for time because

00:12:21   they didn't have some deals done for Apple TV.

00:12:23   Is that something that...

00:12:24   Ah.

00:12:25   But that doesn't make any sense why you would need to stretch it for time.

00:12:28   It's like it's not like you need a minimum requirement.

00:12:31   But yeah, it kind of the keynote kind of went off the rails a little bit because something

00:12:34   had to get cut.

00:12:37   Yeah.

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00:14:44   So we move into the first 4 picks, the first round.

00:14:50   Which is iOS and iPadOS.

00:14:55   As the winner of the previous draft I will get to go first.

00:14:58   And that's the way I tend to do things.

00:15:00   I have my little list here that I've compiled, you know, like I've gone in and made my

00:15:04   own list based on our list and ranked them.

00:15:08   And I'm going to go with widgets on the iPad lock screen as my first pick.

00:15:17   We have like this long list of stuff right?

00:15:19   And I'm kind of stuck a little bit in trying to guess what I think is the most likely stuff

00:15:28   to be added in a year where iOS and iPadOS may not be the focus.

00:15:34   And also what I'm trying to wonder is what are they going to show in the keynote?

00:15:40   And I think this is a visual thing they could show for the iPad that we may immediately

00:15:46   be able to understand if they haven't spent a lot of time on iPadOS itself.

00:15:53   So that's kind of where I'm thinking they're going to go.

00:15:56   And I'm using for that like a previous recipe I'm trying to think of, like a previous

00:16:06   like trend of Apple introduces something for the iPad and then the next year we see it

00:16:12   on the iPad.

00:16:14   And I feel like lock screen widgets on the iPad is something that should exist.

00:16:17   Like it makes a lot of sense to do that.

00:16:19   So this is what I'm expecting.

00:16:21   Well Mike, you'll be happy to know that that was my top choice.

00:16:24   Oh great.

00:16:25   Well, please stay you agree with me.

00:16:26   The sound that you made initially, I felt like I had to justify myself.

00:16:29   I was like, oh no.

00:16:30   I mean, you always have to justify yourself, but no, that was, I was surprised that you

00:16:36   picked it, but I had it at the top of my list.

00:16:39   So you know, you're playing to win.

00:16:41   I appreciate that.

00:16:42   Oh, I am 100% playing to win.

00:16:44   I've had a taste of the winning life and I want to keep my, I don't want to turn this

00:16:47   pendant around Jason Sehle.

00:16:49   I know I get it.

00:16:52   I am going to choose the health app on the iPad for my pick.

00:16:56   There's some rumors out there.

00:16:57   Mark Gurman said it would happen.

00:16:59   Part of this is as always wish casting on my part.

00:17:01   I think that it should be on the iPad.

00:17:03   I think that having that information available on the iPad makes sense.

00:17:07   It's frustrating that it's only on the iPhone.

00:17:09   And since there is a credible rumor out there that it's going to happen, I've decided to

00:17:13   just step up and pick it.

00:17:16   Time to get that thing on the iPad.

00:17:18   Health is, should not be limited to one device.

00:17:22   You have to remind me here.

00:17:23   If this was to exist, would my iPhone's data sync to my iPad?

00:17:29   I think it would have to, right?

00:17:31   I mean, maybe, maybe if you were, I mean, this is the question, right?

00:17:35   It's like Apple watch only does it with the iPhone, like doing fitness.

00:17:40   But can't you do fitness without the Apple watch now?

00:17:46   And yeah, I mean, I think that implicit in the idea of the health app on the iPad is

00:17:49   that they would do some end to end encryption of your health data and be able to sync it

00:17:54   between devices.

00:17:55   So I hope that's what they did.

00:17:56   Yeah.

00:17:57   I mean, I know that they do the end to end encryption and I'm hoping that there'll be

00:18:01   some way for that to then find its way onto my iPad, right?

00:18:05   Like my iPad could also have the key to unlock it because that would be the benefit.

00:18:10   It is one of those things when I, every time people say the health app should come to the

00:18:14   iPad, my first thought is, wait, the health app is not on the iPad.

00:18:17   Like it just feels like a fitness is there.

00:18:21   I have all this health data from my runs and all my Apple watch data syncs to my iPhone.

00:18:28   And I always want to look at it when I'm using my iPad and I can't.

00:18:34   And I have to go to my iPhone and I admit I am more iPad focused than iPhone focused,

00:18:39   but like, surely I'm not the only one like that.

00:18:42   And it doesn't seem reasonable that my health data is only located on that one iPhone.

00:18:47   I would like it to be on my other device is certainly on my iPad.

00:18:50   If I at least wish to have it all sync.

00:18:52   So yeah, I'm, but again, there was also a rumor out there that this was going to happen.

00:18:57   So it's not, I'm not completely, I wouldn't pick this if there was no rumblings about

00:19:00   it, but it sounds like this is something that may actually happen.

00:19:03   So talking about potential apps that may be finding their way onto iOS that have been

00:19:10   rumored.

00:19:11   My second pick in the draft will be the introduction of a journaling app for iOS and iPad.

00:19:16   I was a little shaky on this thing.

00:19:21   But a few days ago, Mark Gummum published a report also kind of confirming that it's

00:19:25   coming.

00:19:26   I have a lot, I have more questions on this than the health app, for example, right?

00:19:33   Because like the health app is just bringing over something existing.

00:19:36   But the journaling app, I'm really intrigued to see exactly what it is Apple's going to

00:19:40   do.

00:19:41   And when thinking about iOS and iPadOS maybe having as not high a focus as normal, this

00:19:52   feels like something you could put into iOS 17, even though realistically it probably

00:19:57   doesn't need that.

00:19:58   You know, like this is building on a set of existing technologies surely that Apple has,

00:20:04   but they're going to put it into iOS 17 as an iOS 17 feature.

00:20:08   It would just be a new app from Apple.

00:20:10   Yeah, I agree with you.

00:20:13   This is a really exciting category.

00:20:14   I had it on my list, but I decided to go with, for my pick, the broader choice, which was

00:20:18   also on our list, which is a new Apple default app on iPad or iPhone.

00:20:24   What would that mean in this circumstance like for this year?

00:20:28   I mean, it's if the journaling app is not in the app store, but is on the device pre-installed

00:20:34   or if they do a password thing, which is another one of our individual choices.

00:20:39   That's how I interpret it.

00:20:41   They'll add an app to the collection of apps that just comes with your phone.

00:20:46   How would we know that?

00:20:49   Like the journaling app, how would we know it comes pre-installed?

00:20:52   Why is it on our list if we wouldn't know it?

00:20:53   Yeah, but the way I've always assumed default app was kind of like, "Hmm, hmm."

00:21:00   I was thinking about it in different terms, but...

00:21:05   Well, yeah.

00:21:07   I highlighted it very much as like, I think they're going to add an app and then you could

00:21:11   also pick passwords or journaling if you wanted to.

00:21:13   You pick journaling.

00:21:14   I'm like, "Well, I don't know.

00:21:15   That was lower down on my list."

00:21:17   Because I'm like, "And app, I feel like there's a higher chance of that than this."

00:21:22   Yeah, I wonder what were you thinking by this?

00:21:24   Because I can take it out.

00:21:25   I think this maybe shouldn't have been in the list this year because we had the Postos

00:21:28   and journaling app.

00:21:29   I always kind of considered this as like some...

00:21:32   Is this recycled from last year?

00:21:34   That was one of the recycled ones.

00:21:35   I do think that maybe if we're going to have the passwords and journaling apps, we should

00:21:40   maybe have not had that one in there.

00:21:42   All right, that's fair.

00:21:44   I will withdraw it then.

00:21:45   Thank you.

00:21:46   And I'm going to go in a different direction.

00:21:47   Look at this sportspersonship going on over here.

00:21:50   Yeah, it's happening.

00:21:51   This is how really calm predictions are made.

00:21:54   Gentlemen like.

00:21:55   Yeah, on the Connected podcast, somebody would pick it and then everybody would agree that

00:22:00   it was invalid, but they couldn't change the pick.

00:22:03   But it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

00:22:04   It's too late.

00:22:05   It's too late.

00:22:06   Yeah, or let's amend that for next time.

00:22:09   Okay, I'm going to go with iPad support.

00:22:14   iPad with stage manager on an external display will work with closed.

00:22:20   Wow.

00:22:21   Wow.

00:22:23   Okay.

00:22:24   Are you wish casting here?

00:22:26   Or do you really think they're going to do this?

00:22:29   I really think they're going to do it.

00:22:30   I think that this is something they just left on the table and that there's been enough

00:22:35   complaint about it and there's enough of a use case for this.

00:22:37   I think actually having the iPad screen on when you're attached to an external display,

00:22:43   it makes everything worse.

00:22:45   Because one of the things that happens with stage managers, it starts sending things back

00:22:50   to the iPad screen, which at least when I use it, like I don't want, when I've got a

00:22:55   big screen in front of me and then the iPad is off to the side or down below or whatever,

00:22:58   I don't want things on the iPad screen.

00:23:01   I want them not on the iPad screen.

00:23:04   So I think that this is a thing for them to do to actually make the iPad experience better

00:23:10   by offering this.

00:23:11   All right.

00:23:13   Third pick, control center redesign.

00:23:16   Wow.

00:23:17   Okay.

00:23:18   It's time.

00:23:19   This one was rumored really early on.

00:23:25   This was one of the rumors when the discussion around iOS 17 was not much going on.

00:23:32   This is before some of this app stuff that we've been hearing about, which is talking

00:23:36   about.

00:23:37   I feel like that this is when we spoke about it at the time when it came up in Rumor Roundup.

00:23:43   It is a design that has stuck around for a decade, realistically.

00:23:49   Visually so similar still to iOS 17.

00:23:52   It's just kind of moved a bunch.

00:23:54   It used to be at the bottom.

00:23:56   Now it comes from the top and now it takes over the whole screen.

00:23:59   I just feel like that there are much better ways of showing this kind of information than

00:24:05   this like weird semi-transparent button thing that they've got going on right now.

00:24:11   I want it to happen.

00:24:13   Haven't heard about it in a while, but you're right.

00:24:14   There was a credible rumor about that, which makes it more than wish casting.

00:24:17   I would love to see it.

00:24:18   I think we did an episode where we talked about it in detail, the idea of being able

00:24:22   to customize it much more and we complained about the way that home stuff is in there.

00:24:28   You can't turn it.

00:24:30   It's going to pick what it's going to pick.

00:24:34   I would love to see that.

00:24:36   We had two in our list that I think we maybe should merge together because I think they

00:24:39   mean the same thing, which is more functionality for the lock screen slash always on functionality.

00:24:47   That's definitely meant to be the same.

00:24:49   That's the same thing.

00:24:50   So I'm going to pick it.

00:24:54   It was coming up for me very shortly, that one.

00:24:57   This is the idea that one, they introduced all the lock screen stuff last time and they

00:25:02   may add functionality there in terms of maybe expanded widgets, who knows what.

00:25:09   But also I think it encompasses this late breaking Mark Gurman rumor, which is this

00:25:14   idea that just came out last week.

00:25:16   We haven't even talked about it on the show because we did our last rumor roundup last

00:25:21   week.

00:25:22   But this idea that there's going to be kind of a, it's almost like nightstand mode for

00:25:28   the Apple watch, except for the iPhone where you put it on its side and it gives you a

00:25:34   nightstand thing where it's got like a different interface and it's just meant to be an ambient

00:25:41   display for when you're in that mode.

00:25:44   And that's really interesting too.

00:25:46   But I think between those two ideas that they're going to work on this stuff and they're going

00:25:51   to tweak the lock screen or add this new mode.

00:25:55   Once you've gotten always on display, those are the two things you can do, right?

00:25:58   You could add more content to the existing feature or you could also make a variation

00:26:02   on the feature.

00:26:03   And I love nightstand mode on my Apple watch.

00:26:06   That's what I use every single night.

00:26:09   I don't leave the iPhone by the side of the bed, but I know a lot of people do.

00:26:13   And this might actually be a pretty great feature.

00:26:16   Or if you just got a dock somewhere, if you could put information on it and have it actually

00:26:19   visible when it's on your desk or wherever, that's cool too.

00:26:23   So I think there's something there.

00:26:25   I don't know what, but something.

00:26:27   - Yeah.

00:26:29   I would love to see this on the iPad more than the iPhone.

00:26:31   - I know, I know.

00:26:33   - But obviously there is a benefit to having this on an always on display.

00:26:38   - Yeah.

00:26:39   - Right?

00:26:40   - And then on a display that you then have to keep on all the time and just really drain

00:26:44   the battery down.

00:26:45   So.

00:26:46   - Right.

00:26:47   Although, I mean, again, it's one of those things that if I were tasked, if I were at

00:26:49   Apple and I was tasked with this idea for the iPad, I would say, well, what do we have?

00:26:54   Like we have cameras and we have the infrared dot projector and sensor and like, could we

00:26:59   do, cause like my cheap kitchen appliance devices, both back when I had the Echo Show

00:27:04   and now that I've got the Nest Home, like they've got a sensor that's like, it knows,

00:27:11   first off it knows what time it is.

00:27:13   It knows what, how much light there is.

00:27:15   And then it knows if there's like movement in front of it and it adjusts accordingly.

00:27:18   So like you could potentially do that with the iPad based on the stuff that's already

00:27:22   there.

00:27:23   And wouldn't that be nice to have this feature where you could set an iPad in your kitchen

00:27:27   and it would, or anywhere really.

00:27:29   And it would behave in a certain way, depending on the time of day, show you information that's

00:27:36   useful, not just be kind of like an empty slab, but I don't know.

00:27:40   The Mark Gurman didn't actually say when he was reporting about this other feature, he

00:27:44   didn't actually say that it wasn't coming to the iPad.

00:27:46   What he did was the thing where he says, well, usually what they seem to be doing is bringing

00:27:50   it to the iPhone and then bringing it to the iPad.

00:27:53   And maybe that's what the plan is here is step one is put it on the iPhone.

00:27:57   And step two is, come out with that rumored kind of like dock product that goes with an

00:28:02   iPad that you could put in the kitchen and it would use this mode.

00:28:07   Maybe we'll get there, but yeah, start with the iPhone would be okay.

00:28:11   If they do bring it to the iPad, I think I get the points anyway, cause it's not specific

00:28:14   to that, but looking forward to it.

00:28:16   All right.

00:28:17   So we're onto our final pick for iOS and iPadOS and I'm really struggling between two.

00:28:21   Okay.

00:28:22   And there's like, well, that's good.

00:28:25   Cause I've only got two left on my pick list and I was going to have to go into the dregs.

00:28:28   So I'm not going to say which, but I'll give you my problem.

00:28:32   There's one that I think is very possible, but might not get mentioned or shown.

00:28:37   And there's one that they would definitely spend time showing, but I'm not convinced

00:28:41   they're going to do it.

00:28:42   So this is, this is where I am with these two.

00:28:44   I know what, I know which one that one is.

00:28:46   I don't know about the other one, but I know which one that one is.

00:28:51   I'm going to go with the one that I think is maybe the most likely to happen, which

00:28:56   is more functionality for the dynamic island.

00:28:58   Oh, you had the same two that I did.

00:29:01   Yes.

00:29:02   Yes.

00:29:03   More.

00:29:04   You, you think this is, but here's the thing is I, I'm not convinced that there'll be more

00:29:07   functionality for the dynamic island.

00:29:08   I want there to be.

00:29:09   I'm not convinced.

00:29:10   Cause the dynamic island is great, but I'm not convinced that after year one with the

00:29:14   dynamic island, that they're going to do anything other than just keep the dynamic island.

00:29:18   Yeah.

00:29:19   So there could be more stuff around live activities.

00:29:22   There are things they could do.

00:29:23   And I see this as a potentially more likely thing than probably what you're going to say,

00:29:29   which is interactive widgets, I'm assuming.

00:29:34   So let's just, let's just put that out there.

00:29:35   Let's just put it on the table and talk about the both of them.

00:29:38   That's that's the one that we, we both have the same two as our next pick.

00:29:41   So interactive widgets feels like if they do that, they're going to show that off and

00:29:45   spend a bunch of time with it.

00:29:46   Yeah.

00:29:47   But I'm not sure they're going to do it.

00:29:48   Oh, and also there is, this may form part of a different operating system and they just

00:29:55   show it during the operating system and don't talk about it in iOS.

00:29:59   And then later on in the state of the union say, Oh, and by the way, you can now bring

00:30:03   these features over to iOS.

00:30:04   Cause like a lot of the time when I'm thinking about the draft here this year is what are

00:30:09   they just not going to say so they can cut time?

00:30:12   Yeah.

00:30:13   Cause that's the truth of it, right?

00:30:14   There there we, I would almost guarantee there are going to be features that we at least

00:30:18   if not picked, we have in our, our list of potential picks that are totally going to

00:30:23   happen and either not appear in the keynote at all or appear in the keynote as a bullet

00:30:28   point on a slide when they normally would have had a demo because they're just cutting

00:30:32   stuff and, and we have a pick later, a stagecraft pick, but I'll give you a hint about it now.

00:30:37   It's the footnote in the middle of the keynote that says state of the union.

00:30:42   Yeah.

00:30:43   I made another video that explains more about all of this because we can't get it in here.

00:30:50   What's the state of the union of video last year?

00:30:52   Like it was prerecorded too?

00:30:54   Oh yeah.

00:30:55   They're all, they're all prerecorded.

00:30:56   Yeah.

00:30:57   Okay.

00:30:58   I wasn't sure about that one, but yeah, it makes sense.

00:30:59   All right.

00:31:00   So that is the end of the iOS and iPadOS round.

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00:33:36   So we move into a brand new round in the draft.

00:33:39   It's not often that we add an entire new category.

00:33:43   I know, but we have to do it.

00:33:46   And this is the category that is receiving the most picks this year.

00:33:50   There are five picks in the headset category.

00:33:55   Yeah, here we are.

00:33:57   I hope it happens.

00:33:58   Otherwise these five picks will just be a footnote.

00:34:01   That is not the first time that that has happened to us.

00:34:04   It's true.

00:34:05   Right?

00:34:06   We did.

00:34:07   I don't remember what draft it was, but when we were expecting, I think it was in 2020

00:34:10   when they did the watch and the iPad and we made iPhone picks, but there was no iPhone

00:34:16   in that.

00:34:17   There was no iPhone.

00:34:18   Yeah.

00:34:19   Good times.

00:34:20   Okay.

00:34:22   My top pick for the headset, no headset pricing announced.

00:34:29   Oh, that was on my list.

00:34:31   That was definitely on my list.

00:34:33   That's a good pick.

00:34:35   They're not going to talk about it here, right?

00:34:37   Like I feel like no pricing information, probably no release information.

00:34:45   I expect they will make some reference to what, and there's more to tell you later on

00:34:50   this year.

00:34:51   I may say shipping later this year or something, right?

00:34:53   But no headset pricing will be announced.

00:34:58   I think that's fair.

00:34:59   James Thompson asks a good question in the discord that maybe we want to clarify.

00:35:03   What about developer pricing?

00:35:07   I don't really, I feel like we're looking for consumer, right?

00:35:10   Like a developer kit is not the headset, if that makes sense.

00:35:13   It could be anything.

00:35:15   No consumer headset pricing announced.

00:35:18   Good clarification to make, but that's kind of, I feel the spirit of the pick here.

00:35:22   Yeah.

00:35:23   Oh, definitely.

00:35:24   For sure.

00:35:25   Yeah.

00:35:26   They're not going to do it, right?

00:35:27   They don't have to do it.

00:35:28   I don't think they're going to do it.

00:35:29   No.

00:35:30   Like it's not shipping.

00:35:31   Why, why give people more time to chew over that price if, um, if they don't have to and

00:35:36   they can just wait until anything can change right up until it comes out, right.

00:35:40   They might want to change it up or down depending on how people react.

00:35:44   Exactly.

00:35:45   So I think that's a good pick.

00:35:47   I had that in my, high up in my list of picks.

00:35:50   I am going to just embrace the name Reality Pro.

00:35:57   Oh, wow.

00:36:00   Okay.

00:36:02   Jason coming in hot with a naming pick.

00:36:05   Yeah.

00:36:06   Huh.

00:36:07   Well, there's again, lots of evidence out there that they've been trademarking Reality

00:36:12   Pro and Reality One and that Reality Pro is probably the high end one and Reality One

00:36:18   is probably the low end one that will come later.

00:36:21   And I it's got to have a name.

00:36:24   Right.

00:36:26   And I think it's Reality Pro.

00:36:28   So I'm just gonna, I'm gonna embrace it.

00:36:29   I'm gonna, I'm gonna choose it.

00:36:31   That's it.

00:36:33   Okay.

00:36:35   I mean, if I was gonna go with a name, right?

00:36:40   Like my guess for a name, this would be the name out of all the names we've heard, right?

00:36:46   It was at the end, but like it was in the little pick, like my potential picks that

00:36:50   I made was Reality Pro, but it was actually my last pick of the ones that I whittled down.

00:36:58   Just because I don't, I don't feel sold on any of the names for anything really.

00:37:06   That's how I feel about the OS names too.

00:37:08   And we know that they can, they can change names and we know that they can misdirect,

00:37:11   but I feel like that's the name.

00:37:13   More just in that none of them are great.

00:37:17   So I just, I can't feel like I can put my finger on what they might particularly go

00:37:21   with.

00:37:22   Like this is called reality.

00:37:24   This might just be called reality.

00:37:26   Reality.

00:37:27   They may not have a pro because there isn't anything else.

00:37:30   So could be.

00:37:33   My second pick is headset will be quote shipping later this year.

00:37:39   Yeah.

00:37:40   Yeah.

00:37:41   That would have been my next pick.

00:37:42   So then I was going to give any more information than just like later.

00:37:46   And I feel like they have to say something right.

00:37:50   And who knows that they might say next year.

00:37:52   Right.

00:37:53   I doubt it.

00:37:54   Well, that's it.

00:37:55   You could be wrong.

00:37:56   I think if they say by the end of the year, then you're right.

00:37:57   If they don't give a time, I think you're wrong.

00:37:59   Yes.

00:38:00   And if they say next year, you're wrong.

00:38:03   Basically anything else is shipping later this year.

00:38:07   Yep.

00:38:08   I think that's very likely to be the case.

00:38:11   So good pick.

00:38:13   Very much a good pick.

00:38:15   I am going to pick VR FaceTime demo.

00:38:21   This was going to be my next one.

00:38:23   I think communication and collaboration is just too important to Apple.

00:38:28   I think they've been laying the groundwork here.

00:38:31   FaceTime SharePlay, Memoji, like we...

00:38:35   Spoilers for an article I haven't yet written, but very clearly, Dan or I will write an article

00:38:41   sometime in late June or early July for Macworld, where we detail all of the foundational software

00:38:49   features that Apple has been building for the last five years in anticipation of announcing

00:38:54   this device.

00:38:56   And so I just, I can't see them not saying you're going to be able to communicate with

00:38:59   other people and it's going to be like, you're right together.

00:39:01   And that's going to be, and when I say FaceTime demo, I mean, if they call it something different,

00:39:05   we know what a VR FaceTime demo is.

00:39:07   It's VR communication where you're in a room with somebody else.

00:39:11   Yeah.

00:39:12   Like there are two people that are in different places that both wear headsets and they're

00:39:16   having a conversation.

00:39:17   That's VR FaceTime, but that's what they're going to call it.

00:39:20   Right?

00:39:21   Like, I feel like it will just be FaceTime.

00:39:22   Yeah.

00:39:23   It'll just be FaceTime.

00:39:24   Yeah.

00:39:25   I think so.

00:39:26   So I'm going to go in that vein and say VR Fitness Experience shown.

00:39:31   Oh, very good.

00:39:32   Very good.

00:39:33   Now, here's the thing though, about both of these things that we've just picked.

00:39:36   Now I expect that this is what they will need to do to show the device, but I did have this

00:39:42   thought of like, we were talking about the Apple Music demo where the problem with the

00:39:46   Apple Music demo at WWDC was it's just like a lot of things for a consumer at the developer

00:39:53   conference.

00:39:55   So it's like an interesting thing of like, here's just like how this thing works, which

00:39:59   is...

00:40:00   Will they withhold features like fitness?

00:40:03   Will they withhold some of that for the announcement and focus more on sort of like what the platform

00:40:09   is capable of doing and hold back some of these things and say, we're not going to show

00:40:14   you.

00:40:15   Like I think FaceTime is more likely as a collaboration thing than fitness, but fitness

00:40:18   is like, will they hold that back and say, oh, Apple Fitness is also on the heads up.

00:40:22   As we were talking about it, I've kind of talked myself out of it, but it's too late

00:40:25   now.

00:40:26   It's too late.

00:40:27   But yeah, I think of the two, and that was how I ranked them.

00:40:29   FaceTime is more likely for those reasons, just because realistically, that's what people

00:40:34   want to see.

00:40:35   They want to see like how are Apple going to demonstrate communication?

00:40:39   Like that is more important than fitness.

00:40:42   Fitness will, I am convinced, make up a part of the product, but that could be a, we'll

00:40:47   show you it in September situation, then we'll show you it now.

00:40:52   Yeah well we'll see.

00:40:54   I'm gonna, I don't like it, but I understand it and it's too consistent not to pick.

00:40:59   I'm gonna pick the external battery pack.

00:41:00   This is my next pick.

00:41:03   Just seems to like the signals are too strong that this is the story that they went with

00:41:08   a design that is lighter on your head, but requires you to have a little pack that you

00:41:14   put in a pocket.

00:41:16   And what I'm curious about, we haven't really talked about this a lot, is I've seen some

00:41:21   people make the comment like, okay you can watch a movie with this, but if the battery

00:41:24   life is only two hours, like you're not gonna be able to do it.

00:41:27   I kind of assume that there's gonna be a pass-through where you could plug the thing that you use

00:41:32   to charge the battery, you can also just plug it in and sit down to watch a movie and it'll

00:41:37   just run forever.

00:41:39   Yeah.

00:41:40   I think, I'm trying to remember now.

00:41:43   I think I remember a rumor suggesting from, I believe it's from Mark Gurman, that the

00:41:47   battery pack will connect via a MagSafe-like connector that locks, but there's also gonna

00:41:53   be a USB-C on it for like power and like maybe some data transfer or something.

00:42:01   Yeah, I expect you're right, that you'll be able to plug it into like a laptop power adapter

00:42:05   and just sit for hours and that will be how people will use it at their desks, for example.

00:42:10   At their desks, exactly.

00:42:11   Yep, yep.

00:42:12   That's not my pick, it's just the external battery.

00:42:15   Yeah, yeah, external battery pack is the pick and I think that's a good one and, you know,

00:42:19   this is one of those ones that I could imagine if this wasn't true, that would have been

00:42:23   corrected by now.

00:42:24   Yes, in fact, I was gonna say the reverse, which is if it had an external battery pack

00:42:28   and it hadn't leaked yet, Apple would totally leak it, because it's funny how we first heard

00:42:32   about this and we're like, "Oh, that's so inelegant, that's so not Apple," and now we're like,

00:42:36   "Yeah, that's totally what it's gonna be," right?

00:42:38   Like we've just kind of come to accept that it's gonna be like that.

00:42:41   I have been on board with this idea from the start.

00:42:43   I think this is a very, very good idea because VR headsets currently are too heavy.

00:42:47   They're just too heavy.

00:42:48   Well, this is in the design is how it works phase, right?

00:42:50   Which is from a pure Johnny Ive kind of like it all needs to be what it stripped down to

00:42:56   its fundamentals, right?

00:42:59   And having it just be an entirely self-contained object that you put on, I think is the design

00:43:06   ideal, but there's the design is how it works thing, which is like, that's really heavy

00:43:12   and unpleasant and you don't wanna use it.

00:43:15   And so you make a concession to the complexity of the hardware in exchange for the experience

00:43:23   being better.

00:43:24   And yeah, I agree.

00:43:25   I think that's probably the right decision.

00:43:27   And a single cable, like people say it get in your way.

00:43:29   Like the thing I'll have to say to you is like, did you have this problem when you used

00:43:32   an iPod?

00:43:33   Like, we all had cables.

00:43:36   It's a very easy way to do this.

00:43:37   You plug it in and then you just drop the battery pack down the inside of your shirt

00:43:41   and put it in your pocket.

00:43:42   Like this is very simple to get around.

00:43:44   Lots of ways to do it.

00:43:45   Yeah.

00:43:46   Like this won't be an issue.

00:43:48   It will be great.

00:43:49   I think it will make a much better experience than any of the meta headsets because it's

00:43:55   going to be just more comfortable to wear provided they get the rest of it right.

00:44:00   But the white part will definitely be a good thing.

00:44:03   I'm going to go back to the developer story a little bit and something that I think will

00:44:07   be shown off is iPad apps running in VR a demoed.

00:44:12   Yes.

00:44:13   This was next on my list.

00:44:14   In fact, this will be like one of the two part of the developer story, right?

00:44:17   That there will be a traditional app story.

00:44:23   How do you get your apps today into reality pro and ha and then how do you develop whole

00:44:31   new VR first experiences like they're the two concurrent things, which I think will

00:44:37   actually really benefit this product that there are two legitimate paths for getting

00:44:42   apps on the thing, you know, and I think that that will be helpful for people using it and

00:44:47   for its adoption in the long run that you'll be able to do everything you can currently

00:44:51   do on an iPad in theory.

00:44:53   Plus there are these full immersive experiences.

00:44:57   Yeah.

00:44:58   It makes sense.

00:44:59   It makes sense.

00:45:00   I agree with you.

00:45:01   Who was next on my list?

00:45:02   Who is next then?

00:45:04   Ooh, yeah.

00:45:05   Well, that's the question.

00:45:08   I'm going to go with a core AR feature that I think you've got to have in a product like

00:45:17   this, which is facial expression tracking.

00:45:22   Very good one.

00:45:23   Very, very good one.

00:45:24   The idea here is that it's going to have technology to look at your eyes and you're like, are

00:45:29   you closing your eyes?

00:45:31   Are you lifting an eyebrow?

00:45:33   Are you frowning?

00:45:35   It's going to be able to look at you and intuit your expression so that it can convey that

00:45:40   in an avatar in some way and that they'll talk about that.

00:45:44   There'll be a moment of like, yeah, and it matches what your eyes are doing.

00:45:50   And I'm not saying where that will happen, but I think that they'll have to mention we're

00:45:56   not going to make your avatar a completely opaque, just like a serial killer face that

00:46:04   has no expression.

00:46:06   We're going to do expressions and we're going to do it by watching your expressions and

00:46:09   conveying them in your avatar.

00:46:13   Just like they do with Memoji, where you can pose for a Memoji and it looks at your face.

00:46:19   It'll be like that.

00:46:20   It's going to look at your face and track those expressions.

00:46:25   The MetaQuest Pro has this.

00:46:27   So it has facial expression tracking sensors and in meeting environments, it makes a huge

00:46:35   difference because if you're talking to someone, they start thinking, they start looking up,

00:46:40   you get that.

00:46:42   You see them do that.

00:46:44   I think that it is for immersion in these environments, it is a pretty important thing.

00:46:51   And as well, if you're doing eye tracking as well, it's not a huge jump to imagine face

00:46:57   tracking.

00:46:58   Eye tracking has been mentioned for this thing for a long time, so they can do that foveated

00:47:02   rendering stuff, which is what the PlayStation headset does.

00:47:07   My final pick is this isn't the other side of the developer part, but I think will be

00:47:16   an interesting part of the device.

00:47:19   I think it will be one of the ways that they show really cool AR technology, which will

00:47:25   be that the headset has a mode to operate like a desktop computer experience.

00:47:30   Oh, all right.

00:47:32   So you're doing iPad apps and computer experience.

00:47:36   This was my next choice, but it feels less likely as a demo than the iPad thing.

00:47:41   What's that going to be like?

00:47:42   But yeah, the idea, this is the use case where it's like you can be anywhere and connect

00:47:48   to your Mac and have a big screen.

00:47:50   Here's what I'll ask you for the grading of this.

00:47:54   We say like, I see the Mac as part of it, but what if it was, you can also sit down

00:47:59   and use a keyboard and mouse to control the iPad apps?

00:48:03   That would be fine.

00:48:04   Yeah.

00:48:05   Well, hmm.

00:48:06   I think the way to maybe to judge this is are there peripherals involved?

00:48:14   That's the, I feel like to me, that's the desktop computer experience part.

00:48:18   Okay.

00:48:19   Yeah.

00:48:20   I mean, it's like a virtual screen.

00:48:21   I was thinking more of it from the perspective of connect to a Mac.

00:48:23   Well, I think of that too.

00:48:25   I do think that too, because I also do think they'll have that.

00:48:28   I think that will be a really cool part of it.

00:48:30   But if they say, hey, you can run iPad apps.

00:48:31   And in fact, heck with that, you can run a whole giant screen with iPad apps on it.

00:48:38   And it's like a virtual screen and you've got a keyboard and a device or whatever.

00:48:43   It's like an actual stage manager thing, right?

00:48:46   I don't understand why you would do that.

00:48:48   That would be weird on the iPad, but yeah, I'm open to it.

00:48:51   We'll see.

00:48:52   Yeah.

00:48:53   I think you would do that because of the typing experience.

00:48:54   I think that the air typing...

00:48:56   Yeah, it's the pointing that's weirder, but the typing, yeah.

00:48:58   Yeah.

00:48:59   The typing experience is going to be pretty key, I think, but cool.

00:49:03   Although I'm also a believer in this concept of the mixed reality input devices where you

00:49:08   have a physical keyboard and it recognizes that you have a physical keyboard and shows

00:49:13   it to you either a virtual analog or it just shows you a picture that that part of the

00:49:18   screen shows you your virtual keyboard or your real keyboard.

00:49:22   Something like that too.

00:49:24   It doesn't necessarily have to be pecking an imaginary keyboard.

00:49:27   It could be a real keyboard.

00:49:28   You could be typing on a keyboard that's not actually connected to the headset itself,

00:49:32   but it's picking it up.

00:49:33   That would be wild.

00:49:35   What's your final pick for the headset?

00:49:37   I have one more and it's going to be...

00:49:41   You know, if this was a consumer launch where I felt like the consumer story was important,

00:49:48   I would probably pick a content choice here like movies or sporting events being mentioned.

00:49:55   But as we said before, it's not.

00:49:58   It's the developer conference.

00:50:00   I think especially content like TV plus movies and sports.

00:50:04   Yeah, exactly.

00:50:05   I can't imagine that they would spend too much time on that if at all at WWDC.

00:50:10   Well, unless they've got a story that's really impressive and they're really proud, but the

00:50:14   MLS season will be over before it ships, right?

00:50:18   So I'm going to go the other way and say that there'll be a technical announcement and it's

00:50:21   going to be an M2 chip powering the headset.

00:50:24   Now I could be wrong because they could have an R1 or whatever, but I think it's going

00:50:28   to be M2 family and it could be pro or it could be M2 or whatever, but they're going

00:50:33   to say something about it being an M2, essentially an M2.

00:50:38   I would actually even be okay if what they said was that it's basically an M2.

00:50:43   We took the M2 and that's what it's going to be.

00:50:46   I was going to say this.

00:50:47   That yes, it's either an M2 or they say we took the M2 and here's the R1, right?

00:50:54   Just the mentioning of the M2 chip somehow involved in this headset is what you need

00:51:02   for that.

00:51:03   I'm going to reword this as M2 chip mentioned is helping power the headset.

00:51:07   Because I would really expect they will have its own name because realistically they're

00:51:15   going to put other things on the chip that are specific to this.

00:51:20   They may just say we're bringing the power of the M2 to the headset.

00:51:27   Because does it need the same RAM requirement?

00:51:34   But what I'm thinking here is first off, fundamentally they have to talk about the specs.

00:51:38   They're going to talk about the specs.

00:51:39   They don't want to talk to developers about how powerful it is.

00:51:42   So I think since the M2 is currently their state of the art, I don't think it's going

00:51:46   to be the A whatever because they want to impress you.

00:51:50   So they're going to say it's the power of the M2.

00:51:52   Whether it's actually the M2 or not, they're going to say it.

00:51:58   One of the picks we had in here that neither of us chose, I think for good reason, is if

00:52:02   they will or will not mention competitors in this.

00:52:06   And I don't know if they will mention competitors by name or not, but I do think that they will

00:52:12   want to talk about the power of the headset.

00:52:23   And I think that they will maybe reference its power compared to other things.

00:52:31   You know, that we put a desktop class processor inside of our mixed reality headset.

00:52:39   Exactly.

00:52:40   Yeah.

00:52:41   No one else has done that.

00:52:42   Agreed.

00:52:43   Agreed.

00:52:44   If you enjoy this show and you'd like to get more of it, even this draft episode, you should

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00:53:02   Everyone's focused on WWDC there.

00:53:04   We have channels that are focused on this stuff.

00:53:07   And when all of the live recordings are going on during WWDC week, that's where you'll be

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00:53:16   If you are subscribed to Upgrade Plus in the Upgrade Plus segment this week, we'll talk

00:53:20   about some of the things that were on our long list but didn't make it into our draft

00:53:25   predictions to help round out the overall picking that me and Jason think might occur

00:53:30   during the WWDC press conference keynote.

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00:53:39   content.

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00:53:42   So the other round we are in now.

00:53:46   Other includes Mac OS, watch OS, tv OS, services, and all other potential hardware.

00:53:53   It's a huge round.

00:53:56   And that said, I'd be surprised if more than a couple of points come out of this whole

00:54:02   round.

00:54:03   Yes, and I struggled to pick mine from this one.

00:54:07   Yeah, in fact in the document we only have four, which would be fine with me if we only

00:54:11   picked four here.

00:54:13   Yes.

00:54:15   I think we were only doing four, right?

00:54:17   Uh, I think it was gonna be five, but I don't care.

00:54:20   Let's do four.

00:54:21   Let's do four.

00:54:22   Yeah.

00:54:23   Okay, I'm gonna swing on this one.

00:54:30   Okay.

00:54:31   Watch OS now features a widget-like interface.

00:54:34   Well, that's a smart choice.

00:54:38   I agree.

00:54:39   I think I was just doing an interview with somebody for an article they're writing about

00:54:43   WWDC in advance and for mainstream media and they're like, "Is there anything else?"

00:54:48   And I said, "I don't know.

00:54:49   The Apple Watch is rumored to get a big overhaul and I'm actually interested in that.

00:54:53   I think it'll be quiet for everything else."

00:54:55   So I think this is a good pick.

00:54:56   I think that stuff happening on the Watch is a good idea.

00:55:00   You know, I think we spoke about it at the time and if this is the case, this may be

00:55:03   the most...

00:55:04   This is gonna be the most time they spend on any other platform, right?

00:55:10   If they've really gone to it and given Watch OS a whole rethink, I think it would be nice

00:55:14   to explore that a little bit.

00:55:16   That would be my hope, I think, of all of the platforms that I use.

00:55:21   This year, it's the one I would like them to do the most with.

00:55:24   I'm good with iOS.

00:55:26   I'm good with Mac OS, but I think the Watch needs its rethink time and I would really

00:55:33   appreciate if they gave it that.

00:55:36   Yeah, I agree.

00:55:38   I agree.

00:55:39   I feel like this is the time.

00:55:40   Well, Mike, there's not a lot here that I think is gonna happen, honestly.

00:55:45   So I'm just gonna go for the glory.

00:55:47   I'm gonna go for the glory.

00:55:48   Oh, here he goes, everyone.

00:55:49   It's glory time.

00:55:50   It is.

00:55:51   Get ready.

00:55:52   Are you ready?

00:55:53   Uh-huh.

00:55:54   Mac Pro teaser.

00:55:56   You mad, lad.

00:55:58   Okay.

00:55:59   Mac Pro teaser.

00:56:00   Wow.

00:56:01   I don't know what form...

00:56:02   Nobody knows what form the Mac Pro teaser will take.

00:56:05   Maybe it'll just be a knowing glance from John Turnus going, "Remember that Mac Pro?"

00:56:08   "Eh, eh."

00:56:09   "Remember that promise I made?"

00:56:11   "Still promising."

00:56:12   Yeah.

00:56:13   I don't know.

00:56:14   I don't know.

00:56:16   Maybe it'll be, "Nah, nah, nah, nah, you don't get a Mac Pro."

00:56:18   That would technically be teasing.

00:56:19   There's one under this desk, but you can't use it.

00:56:21   You can't see it.

00:56:24   But if the...

00:56:26   Yeah, in fact, honestly, if it's Johnny Stroogy talking about something and next to his desk

00:56:32   is a humorously placed Mac Pro that's got a label on it saying "secret" or something,

00:56:37   that's probably a Mac Pro teaser.

00:56:38   But I just...

00:56:39   I'm gonna...

00:56:40   I don't think any of these things are gonna happen, so I'm just gonna choose that because

00:56:43   I do think there's at least a chance that at the developer conference they will say

00:56:46   something about their previous promise for the Mac Pro.

00:56:50   Mac Pro teaser.

00:56:51   Well, if we're going into Mac Land, I'm gonna pick the thing that I don't think belongs

00:56:57   here realistically, but if they're gonna do it, they'll probably need to do it here, and

00:57:04   that is the 15-inch MacBook Air.

00:57:06   All right.

00:57:07   It's not gonna happen.

00:57:08   You don't think so?

00:57:09   But why not?

00:57:10   Maybe it will.

00:57:11   What makes you say it will?

00:57:12   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:13   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:14   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:15   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:16   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:17   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:18   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:19   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:20   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:21   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:22   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:23   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:24   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:25   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:26   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:27   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:28   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:29   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:30   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:31   I don't think it's gonna happen.

00:57:32   I'm proud to say that we're doing a 15 inch version

00:57:35   that's gonna be available next week.

00:57:37   And then they'll move on and it'll be a press release.

00:57:40   But why would you do that if you could wait three weeks

00:57:45   and have everybody cover it without covering

00:57:48   all the rest of the stuff?

00:57:49   I don't think it makes sense to just trickle it out

00:57:52   and it doesn't fit the day.

00:57:56   It doesn't fit the event, the occasion.

00:57:58   - I mean, did the 13 inch?

00:58:02   Did the M2 MacBook Air fit the occasion?

00:58:05   'Cause they did it last time.

00:58:07   - Yeah, but they had room last time.

00:58:09   They weren't launching a major new platform is my argument.

00:58:11   - Well, I was thinking like,

00:58:13   if the hands-on area is happening, right?

00:58:15   And the hands-on area includes headsets.

00:58:17   And let's imagine the hands-on area includes demos

00:58:19   of the headset, which I actually don't think will happen,

00:58:21   but let's imagine that it does.

00:58:23   Or let's imagine there's like some cycle

00:58:25   you can just put it on and just look at it

00:58:26   through the thing, right?

00:58:28   There's not gonna be a lot of them.

00:58:29   They're gonna be pressed to do something

00:58:30   while they're waiting.

00:58:32   Get them to go take pictures of the MacBook Air instead.

00:58:34   - I guess.

00:58:36   I'm going to go back to the watch

00:58:40   and say smart complications that change based on data.

00:58:43   So basically an upgrade to complications

00:58:46   so that they are better and the slots will change

00:58:51   where the content in them can change based on status.

00:58:54   It's a dream I have.

00:58:58   - Yeah, I like this.

00:58:59   - This is the, like I was one of the judges

00:59:02   on the Mac stories, Automation April,

00:59:03   and one of the winners was a thing called Yes More Events.

00:59:08   And the entire premise of it is you have the,

00:59:10   you have a calendar widget that says no more events

00:59:13   when you don't have any more events that day.

00:59:15   And so what the shortcut does is create an event

00:59:17   at the end of the day with other information in it

00:59:19   that you might find valuable so that it says something

00:59:23   that is valuable instead of no more events.

00:59:26   And that's a great example.

00:59:28   Or if there's a timer running to show it happening,

00:59:32   the question would be, do complications matter as much

00:59:34   at all if there are widgets?

00:59:36   And I don't know the answer to that question,

00:59:38   but I'm going to pick it because this is like a glaring hole

00:59:42   in the whole concept of complications.

00:59:44   - Oh, I hate this round.

00:59:48   - Yep, it's not good.

00:59:53   - I have a pick.

00:59:55   I'm just going to make this pick,

00:59:56   but then I have a clarifying question.

00:59:57   - It's kind of fun though.

00:59:58   It's kind of fun picking things that you know

01:00:00   are just not going to happen and it's not going to matter

01:00:02   because your opponent is also going to pick things

01:00:04   that don't happen and don't matter.

01:00:05   - That's true, that's true.

01:00:06   I'm going to go with a new Apple Silicon chip is introduced.

01:00:09   - Oh, interesting.

01:00:12   - But I have a question.

01:00:13   - But it can't be related to the headset

01:00:14   because it's another pick.

01:00:15   - That's what I was going to say.

01:00:16   So should we say for the Mac at the end of that?

01:00:20   - Yes, sure, why not?

01:00:22   - A new Apple Silicon chip is introduced for the Mac.

01:00:23   - That's a ridiculous choice, go ahead.

01:00:25   - Well, you know what else is ridiculous, Jason?

01:00:26   I'm not a Mac Pro teaser, but if it is the Mac Pro,

01:00:28   maybe I piggyback with you.

01:00:31   - Okay.

01:00:32   - You know, they're like, here's the Mac Pro

01:00:34   and it's coming with our most powerful

01:00:36   Mac Apple Silicon chip ever.

01:00:39   It's called M27, because that's how long

01:00:42   you're going to wait for the Mac Pro.

01:00:44   It's 23 years away.

01:00:46   - Sure, that could happen.

01:00:47   You're going to be really mad if I nail

01:00:50   a couple of these other picks and that's how I win.

01:00:53   - Not really, I'll be impressed.

01:00:56   - Honestly, I don't think I'll be mad.

01:00:59   - That'd be a miracle if it happens.

01:01:00   - Yeah, I'll be too impressed of you

01:01:01   if you manage to win that way.

01:01:03   - Okay, I'm gonna, we're also like in the,

01:01:11   there's no evidence that these things are gonna happen.

01:01:13   - Yeah.

01:01:14   - But I just wrote about this, we talked about it.

01:01:17   It's been a recurring segment here.

01:01:19   This is the official podcast of the Quad Box.

01:01:22   - Quad Box.

01:01:23   - Quad Box!

01:01:26   So I'm gonna pick it.

01:01:27   Apple recently brought the Quad Box to the TV app.

01:01:31   I'm gonna say TV OS announcement,

01:01:33   big headlining TV OS announcement,

01:01:36   multi-view support across the operating system.

01:01:38   Apps will have to be right into the API,

01:01:42   just like they wrote into the picture in picture API.

01:01:45   Although maybe it'll actually use the same thing

01:01:47   as the picture in picture API,

01:01:48   but you'll be able to put multiple items in the Quad Box.

01:01:54   The Quad Box.

01:01:55   It's a dream I have.

01:01:57   - Jason, I'm gonna just make my next pick

01:02:00   so I can talk about your pick.

01:02:02   My pick, my final pick in the other picks

01:02:05   is that TV OS is not mentioned during the keynote at all.

01:02:10   You might get your Quad Box,

01:02:12   but you know what you're not gonna find out about it?

01:02:14   In the keynote.

01:02:15   - In the keynote, yeah, I think you might be right.

01:02:18   I love a not mentioned pick, I love a buzzkill pick.

01:02:20   - Why?

01:02:21   I mean, look, I love TV OS.

01:02:22   I'm the official reviewer on the connected podcast

01:02:26   of TV OS every year.

01:02:27   If they spend any time talking about TV OS,

01:02:31   I think they're wasting their time.

01:02:33   It is a platform that even if you do something like say,

01:02:38   here's the Quad Box,

01:02:39   all of the services that are the most popular

01:02:43   don't use Apple's playing interface anymore.

01:02:47   Max just dropped it, right?

01:02:49   The new Max app.

01:02:50   There are more and more apps not using

01:02:52   the official Apple player than ever.

01:02:55   It just feels like it continues going on and on and on.

01:02:58   I just don't see it happening.

01:02:59   - What if they have a partner?

01:03:00   What if they bring up YouTube TV or they bring up ESPN

01:03:03   and say, yeah, we implemented this and it's great.

01:03:06   It just uses picture in picture interface and you do this

01:03:08   and then you can see our stuff next to Apple stuff, yay.

01:03:11   - Yeah, I mean, imagine if they did that.

01:03:14   Imagine if they did it during this keynote.

01:03:16   When they gonna speak YouTube time,

01:03:18   like come on YouTube, talk about it.

01:03:19   - They gotta talk about something.

01:03:21   They gotta talk about something, right?

01:03:23   Well, my next pick was gonna be TV OS related

01:03:28   because why not?

01:03:29   And now I'm looking at the picks

01:03:30   that I thought I was gonna pick

01:03:31   and I think they're all ridiculous.

01:03:33   And so I'm just gonna go off the board completely

01:03:36   to another random thing and I'm gonna say, you know what?

01:03:40   You know what's greater than a Mac Pro teaser?

01:03:42   Third party watch faces.

01:03:45   - My word Jason Snow.

01:03:46   - Third party watch faces, boom, done.

01:03:50   Just watch, just watch Mike, Mac Pro teaser,

01:03:53   third party watch faces.

01:03:54   I win the draft by one.

01:03:56   That'll be amazing.

01:03:57   - Honestly, if you do it, I mean, no one's gonna be mad.

01:04:01   - I know, game recognize game, right?

01:04:03   - I guess I'll have to.

01:04:08   All right, final regular round, stagecraft.

01:04:12   - Stagecraft.

01:04:15   I wanna, the reason you may ask yourself

01:04:17   why stagecraft picks?

01:04:18   Well, one is if we put these in other,

01:04:20   all of our picks would have been stagecraft.

01:04:22   - Correct.

01:04:23   - And so we're gonna force ourselves

01:04:25   to make just two stagecraft picks.

01:04:28   - And I'm gonna go with the gimme.

01:04:30   The guaranteed pick of all of the picks

01:04:34   that could ever occur during any WWDC,

01:04:38   Craig Federighi appearance.

01:04:40   - Yeah, I know, I'm surprised that's even allowed

01:04:42   on the list, yes, it's there.

01:04:45   Nevertheless, we keep it going.

01:04:48   - Yeah, Craig Federighi appearance.

01:04:49   I think that's the best one.

01:04:50   I'm, you know, you can, I might be proven wrong,

01:04:57   but I think you can never go wrong with game demos.

01:04:59   - This is my second one.

01:05:00   They're gonna, I think at least have at least one VR game demo.

01:05:05   - Yeah, I think they have to.

01:05:08   - There was a rumor from Mark Gorman about

01:05:13   Hideo Kojima being involved in No Man's Sky.

01:05:15   That was absolute hogwash.

01:05:17   Like he's not involved in that game at all.

01:05:19   But No Man's Sky is a game that was,

01:05:22   like Hideo Kojima has been rumored

01:05:23   to be around Cupertino this week.

01:05:25   So maybe he's gonna be doing something for the headset.

01:05:28   But No Man's Sky, which was a game shown off ages ago,

01:05:32   is coming to Apple Silicon,

01:05:33   coming to Apple because of Apple Silicon,

01:05:35   it is yet to arrive,

01:05:36   but No Man's Sky has a very robust VR mode.

01:05:38   So it could be a very easy slot into this.

01:05:43   - My second and final pick in Stagecraft,

01:05:47   Metaverse is not said.

01:05:50   - Metaverse is not said.

01:05:52   - Yep.

01:05:53   - I think that's pretty good.

01:05:55   I mean, there might be a joke.

01:05:57   If the word appears anywhere in the keynote,

01:06:00   you lose this pick.

01:06:01   - Correct.

01:06:01   I don't think that's a pretty good pick.

01:06:05   - To mention it is basically acknowledging Facebook

01:06:11   and their lead, right?

01:06:13   And I just don't think they're gonna do it.

01:06:15   - I think you're probably right.

01:06:16   I think the reason that this is risky

01:06:18   is only that they may be like,

01:06:20   "You've heard of the Metaverse.

01:06:21   Well, forget that, right?

01:06:23   That dismissive of it."

01:06:24   - I don't know what's gonna happen.

01:06:26   - But I think you're right.

01:06:28   Okay, here's my last Stagecraft pick.

01:06:29   I mentioned this earlier,

01:06:33   you wanna just put it out there.

01:06:35   The way I phrased it is explicit exhortation

01:06:38   to watch the State of the Union for OS details.

01:06:40   But really what I'm saying is somewhere in this event,

01:06:43   I feel like they're gonna say,

01:06:45   "We have a whole lot more OS things to announce."

01:06:47   They're in the State of the Union,

01:06:48   which we'll post later this afternoon.

01:06:50   Something.

01:06:51   There will be a little footnote,

01:06:52   'cause I feel like this is the kind of event

01:06:54   where they're kicking off WWDC,

01:06:56   but they're not gonna give as much time to the OS

01:06:58   as maybe they would normally.

01:07:00   And they're gonna be like pointing

01:07:01   at the State of the Union,

01:07:02   saying, "We made another video that's for boring OS things

01:07:06   that only developers care about.

01:07:07   Go watch that for more."

01:07:09   Because it's too packed.

01:07:10   So I'm just gonna, it's Stagecraft.

01:07:12   - Final round of the draft is the Mac OS.

01:07:17   My least favorite of every possible thing.

01:07:18   - Let's dive into California geography.

01:07:21   - Is the Mac OS naming round,

01:07:23   where we each get two potential names that we can give

01:07:27   that may form the Mac OS version.

01:07:31   And there is one point on the line for this.

01:07:34   I will just at this point publicly make my protest

01:07:36   for the existence of this round,

01:07:38   because I believe Jason Snell

01:07:40   has an advantage over me significantly.

01:07:42   It's almost as if, imagine they decided

01:07:45   to name Mac OS after English towns.

01:07:49   - So here's the thing.

01:07:51   This is why I disagree with you.

01:07:51   One is, I know too much about California.

01:07:55   And I think that that makes me overthink it,

01:07:58   because I'm thinking of like,

01:08:00   like with Ventura, it was an example where I'm like,

01:08:02   ah, Ventura is not that interesting.

01:08:05   Like I've been to Ventura County,

01:08:07   and it was Ventura, right?

01:08:09   'Cause it's like a good name.

01:08:10   It's like an interesting name.

01:08:12   So I think that's part of the challenge here is,

01:08:14   I'm overthinking it, 'cause I'm thinking about the places.

01:08:17   Also, I'm providing you a list of things

01:08:19   I think it might be for you to pick from.

01:08:21   - Yeah, but I don't know what any of them means, you know?

01:08:23   But anyway, anyway. - You can look it up.

01:08:24   You can look them up.

01:08:26   Or is your ignorance and just looking at it as a brand name,

01:08:28   what Apple is also trying to do for people.

01:08:31   'Cause most of Apple's customers don't know the names

01:08:34   of these things either, right?

01:08:35   So maybe you're better.

01:08:37   - You're making a good argument.

01:08:41   - That doesn't matter.

01:08:42   - I still don't like the round, but your argument's good.

01:08:45   - I get it.

01:08:45   - I'm gonna go with, should we do this one each, right?

01:08:49   So like, I do one, you do one, right?

01:08:51   I'm gonna go with what I think may have been

01:08:52   my favorite last year,

01:08:54   'cause I actually do think it would be a nice name.

01:08:57   Mac OS Tahoe.

01:08:59   - Yes.

01:09:00   - I just like it. - It's a good name.

01:09:01   - I think it sounds nice.

01:09:03   My understanding, and I feel like the little I know

01:09:06   about Tahoe is that it's great in the summer

01:09:08   and in the winter.

01:09:09   So there's probably some good imagery you could get, right?

01:09:11   'Cause it's got like the lakes and also the mountains.

01:09:15   Is that correct?

01:09:16   - Yep.

01:09:17   - So that'd be a nice one.

01:09:18   - I am going to go with,

01:09:24   so the last two have been Monterey and Ventura, right?

01:09:27   Both of which are coastal counties.

01:09:32   And Apple's never been afraid to pick a complicated name

01:09:37   that frustrates everybody who's not in California.

01:09:41   So I'm gonna pick with my first pick Mendocino.

01:09:45   - Hate it.

01:09:46   The way you spell this, like not you,

01:09:49   but the way it is spelled, M-E-N-D-O-C-I-N-O.

01:09:52   No, this is terrible. - Mendocino.

01:09:54   - I don't like it.

01:09:55   And you know what?

01:09:56   - And Federica will say Mendocino.

01:09:58   - Mendocino.

01:09:59   - Mendocino.

01:10:00   - My second pick, see, I don't know if I should do this.

01:10:03   So like I've made my picks and I was like,

01:10:05   I went and looked at last year's.

01:10:07   What I wanna pick as my second pick is exactly the same

01:10:09   as the second pick I made last time.

01:10:12   - Okay.

01:10:12   - So I would end up picking the same two things

01:10:14   two years in a row.

01:10:15   I think I'm just gonna go with my gut and do it.

01:10:17   Because again, I just think it's a good name.

01:10:20   Mac OS Golden Gate.

01:10:23   - Golden Gate's a good name.

01:10:24   It is a good name.

01:10:25   - I do wonder if they would save this for like a year

01:10:29   when they're really bridging it with iPad OS.

01:10:31   But I'm gonna go with Mac OS Golden Gate.

01:10:34   I like Tahoe and Golden Gate.

01:10:36   I'm going with two names that I just think sound good.

01:10:39   And I would like, although history has shown

01:10:42   they will not do that.

01:10:43   Mendocino.

01:10:47   - I, oh, there are still a bunch of good names here.

01:10:50   That's why I think it's good

01:10:52   that they went to the California names.

01:10:53   There's still a bunch of good names here.

01:10:55   - Mac OS North Antonshire.

01:10:58   - Hello mate.

01:10:59   This is Mac OS Islington.

01:11:02   Wow, this is a tough one.

01:11:10   - Can I just say, I love so much

01:11:15   that we still have Mac OS Alcatraz on this list

01:11:17   as if they would ever do that.

01:11:19   - We also have Mac OS Death Valley on this list

01:11:21   which you really would probably not name

01:11:24   an operating system after, but it's on the list.

01:11:26   'Cause why not?

01:11:27   - I'm gonna go with Mammoth.

01:11:28   Mac OS Mammoth.

01:11:30   - I like that one. - Mammoth Lakes

01:11:31   is a volcanic area and a ski resort and a summer destination

01:11:36   and it's a fun name and it's an actual word

01:11:38   that people know.

01:11:39   And so Mac OS Mammoth, why not?

01:11:42   - You know, I wondered about Mammoth,

01:11:44   but I mean, I don't think they would care about this,

01:11:46   but I just feel like Mastodon has really wrapped up

01:11:49   all of that branding for now,

01:11:51   but they probably don't care about that.

01:11:53   - But they would just have mountains and snow and stuff.

01:11:56   - Mammoth I could see and I would like.

01:11:58   Like Mac OS Mammoth is a name that I would enjoy.

01:12:01   I would be so mad if they called it Mendocino

01:12:03   because I just don't like that at all.

01:12:05   - It's Mendocino.

01:12:06   - There you go.

01:12:07   Well, I'm gonna call it Mendocino.

01:12:08   - Indochino.

01:12:10   - That's what I'm gonna call it.

01:12:11   Mac OS Cappuccino.

01:12:13   And it doesn't work for me, but they work with Mavericks.

01:12:17   So the company that chose Mavericks

01:12:19   may choose literally anything

01:12:22   because Mavericks just sounded bad.

01:12:24   Mac OS Mavericks.

01:12:26   The fact that it has an S on the end just did not work.

01:12:29   - And also I'll say as a Californian,

01:12:32   nobody had ever heard of that place.

01:12:34   - What was it? A beach?

01:12:35   It was like a specific beach, right?

01:12:37   - It was like a ski.

01:12:37   It was like a surf area.

01:12:40   - Mm-hmm.

01:12:41   - No.

01:12:42   - That's the draft.

01:12:45   - That's it.

01:12:45   - We did it.

01:12:47   All the picks are out there.

01:12:48   - All that's left is the scoring.

01:12:51   - Which will happen.

01:12:52   - And a bit of recriminations.

01:12:54   - The scoring will occur on the ground

01:12:58   in which the picks will have come true.

01:13:02   I don't know, well, I'm basically saying

01:13:03   it will be at Apple Park next week.

01:13:04   - Yeah, yeah.

01:13:06   - Which I'm super pumped for.

01:13:07   Very excited to see, and a bunch of friends

01:13:10   I haven't seen in a long time.

01:13:12   - Long time.

01:13:13   - And so we're looking forward to being in California,

01:13:16   soaking up the sun, and being inside of Apple Park,

01:13:20   watching the keynote, along with my friend, Jason Snell.

01:13:23   If you want to send us your feedback,

01:13:25   follow up and questions, you can go to upgradefeedback.com.

01:13:28   If you have things you want us to talk about

01:13:30   in the keynote, you can send them in there.

01:13:33   I will pre-warn people that if I do actually

01:13:37   make it to the keynote, I will be very excited

01:13:40   to talk about my keynote experience.

01:13:41   So just be aware of that.

01:13:43   That we're gonna be talking, obviously, about things,

01:13:46   but I will be a little excited bunny

01:13:47   and will want to talk about how happy I am

01:13:49   to have achieved a 15-year goal.

01:13:53   But in the meantime, and I'm sure during WWDC itself,

01:13:56   you will be wanting to keep locked to sixcolors.com

01:14:00   to check out Jason's work.

01:14:01   You can also hear Jason over at the incomparable.com

01:14:04   and here on Relay FM.

01:14:05   You can listen to me, my show's on Relay FM as well,

01:14:09   and check out my work at cortexbrand.com.

01:14:11   You can find us on Mastodon.

01:14:12   Jason is @jasonell on zeppelin.flights.

01:14:15   I am @imike on mike.social.

01:14:17   And you can find the show as @upgrade on relayfm.social,

01:14:21   where you can watch video clips along with our TikTok

01:14:24   and Instagram accounts where we are @upgraderelay on both.

01:14:28   Thank you to our members who support us with Upgrade Plus.

01:14:31   Thank you to Nom Nom and Dark Noise

01:14:33   for their support of this week's episode.

01:14:35   And most importantly, thank you for listening.

01:14:38   We will speak to you after the WWDC keynote.

01:14:41   Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:14:43   - See you next week, Mike.

01:14:45   (upbeat music)

01:14:47   (upbeat music)

01:14:50   (upbeat music)

01:14:53   (upbeat music)

01:14:55   (upbeat music)

01:14:58   (drumming)

01:15:00   Thank you for watching.