454: Pipe It In


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   Hello and welcome to Connected episode 454. It's made possible this week by our sponsors Squarespace, ZuckDoc, and NetSuite.

00:00:18   My name is Stephen Hackett and I'm joined by Mr. Mike Hurley.

00:00:21   Hello, I'm reporting live from the Moscone Center here in San Francisco. When are you guys getting here for WWDC?

00:00:29   You missed it in a couple of ways there, buddy.

00:00:32   No, no, no, no. I'm ready for next year. They're bringing it back. There's a word on the streets around San Francisco. It's Moscone. They're bringing it back.

00:00:41   Oh, and I'm joined by Federico Petitjian. I had to do that. I was so excited by being at Moscone. Hi Federico, I apologize for not...

00:00:48   Hello, I think you took this "I finally made it to WWDC" thing a bit too literally.

00:00:56   No, I'm attending all of them now.

00:00:58   So now you're going back in time? Are you coming to us from WWDC 2016?

00:01:06   I'm recording live. I've got photos of the banners to share if you want them.

00:01:09   Please do.

00:01:10   Oh man.

00:01:11   Do you want them?

00:01:13   Yeah. What are they announcing? iOS 12? How does it look?

00:01:17   Yeah, I saw the big 12 banners. I'm ready to go.

00:01:21   I have some important follow-up. I did it again. I was overexcited during the quizzes last time and I put the scores into my spreadsheet incorrectly.

00:01:30   I am reading from Kate who sent in to say the total score on the quizzes episode should have been Federico with 1,770 points and Stephen with 1,690 points.

00:01:42   I put all of the points onto Stephen instead. This has been corrected. Federico, you're back in the lead. Congratulations.

00:01:48   I was winning the whole time.

00:01:50   You were winning, yeah. You were winning the whole time. Yeah.

00:01:52   But now you're back to winning. See, you thought you'd lost it and now you have the jubilation of winning again. Congratulations on winning again.

00:01:58   Kate, thank you so much for caring about justice and fighting the constant collusion on this show.

00:02:05   Federico, I corrected it. Where's the collusion?

00:02:09   Between these two businessmen who constantly try to rig the results in their favor.

00:02:15   Well, we happen to know it's been amended.

00:02:18   Also, you own part of the company.

00:02:20   Well, still.

00:02:22   Still.

00:02:24   Glory is something else.

00:02:26   Okay.

00:02:28   I have some smell talk to open up the episode.

00:02:31   Wait, that's a different show.

00:02:33   Stephen is just mad that we didn't make this joke ourselves, so he's now making it himself.

00:02:39   I'm making the joke, but I'm also passing along some anonymous feedback from someone. All I can say is they know about how Apple Park was built.

00:02:49   And they said that Apple does indeed pipe in, quote, this is a quote from the person, "Nature smells around Apple Park."

00:03:00   What? No way. What?

00:03:02   Why do you have this feedback? Is it in response to upgrade? Because if it is, why is it going to?

00:03:06   I had this feedback last week after we said something about it smelling nice.

00:03:11   I said that somebody asked me what's Apple Park like, and I said that it smells good, that it smells like nature.

00:03:18   And someone pulled me aside, or they sent me an email, or they faxed it to me. I can't really say how.

00:03:26   And I believe them.

00:03:28   This can be real, right? I mean, what is it?

00:03:31   The pipe in nature smells. What, they just hide a bunch of air fresheners all around Apple Park?

00:03:39   They pipe it in.

00:03:40   They pipe it in.

00:03:41   They have little pipes, and then the smells come through the pipes.

00:03:45   It's kind of concerning that they have a piping system hidden from you where they can just...

00:03:50   Is that how they do the reality distortion build?

00:03:53   It's actually...

00:03:54   It's a different thing they pipe in for that.

00:03:56   They're just drugging us? Are they drugging us?

00:04:00   This is a very concerning piece of feedback, Stephen.

00:04:03   Yes, somebody needs to look into this.

00:04:06   Also, what is a nature smell?

00:04:08   I think it's like flowers and stuff, you know, kind of like a sweet, oaky smell. I don't know.

00:04:15   So it wasn't naturally...

00:04:17   I think it enhances what's there.

00:04:20   Because there are lots of wildflowers.

00:04:23   If you haven't been to Apple Park, it is beautiful. There's trees and tall grass and blooming flowers and fruit trees everywhere. I think they just enhance it.

00:04:33   Is this like when they say you should bake cookies when you're selling your house?

00:04:37   Yeah, oh yeah.

00:04:38   Or bake bread or whatever, so your house smells good when people come in?

00:04:40   So it smells homey, you know?

00:04:42   So they make it smell nature-y, but putting flowers smells.

00:04:46   So are Apple grinding up a bunch of flowers underneath Apple Park, just wafting the smells out? Is that how they do it?

00:04:54   They're just like, above ground, it's all about nature and underground. They're just like mulching trees after trees and just throwing the smell out.

00:05:04   Wow, Stephen, this is pretty upsetting that you brought it to the show.

00:05:07   Chance says in the Discord, "It's literally like how casinos pipe in tons of oxygen to give you more energy, allegedly."

00:05:14   Is that true? That's also upsetting.

00:05:17   I'm not sure I believe this.

00:05:18   This is all very upsetting. Like, how many are gonna-

00:05:20   Isn't this apparently like planes on airplanes, they can control the oxygen to make you sleepy? Isn't that a thing too?

00:05:27   I think all of this is a lie, by the way. Like, 100% of what we said in this segment is a lie.

00:05:32   All of this is fake.

00:05:33   I don't know if I believe the nature smells thing, Stephen.

00:05:36   I believe the feedback.

00:05:37   Suddenly everybody knows that all these organizations, they pipe some substance into the air and like, it's a well-known secret, but Mike and I are just finding out about it.

00:05:48   Do y'all know that a lot of high-end cars now have fragrance systems? If you get like, a luxury BMW and other brands, they have little pods that you put in the glove box, and they pipe nice smells into the cabin.

00:06:02   That's stupid. There's just another way that these car companies are trying to get more money out of you.

00:06:06   They add smells and get rid of carplay.

00:06:09   All right. Well, if you know about the nature smells of Apple Park, let us know anonymously through one of the many systems we have, whether it's Stephen or me or the Mike Hurley tip line, obviously.

00:06:24   It's clear that Stephen wrote an article after visiting Apple Park because he was talking so effusely about WWDC, so you must have been high on the old nature smells.

00:06:33   Yeah.

00:06:34   Mm-hmm.

00:06:35   And you said, I like just the title of your post, the vibe is good. And I would agree, the vibe at WWDC, it's a good vibe.

00:06:42   Yeah.

00:06:43   I think that this kind of new format of WWDC, right, the Apple Park, mostly two-day thing, bring a bunch of developers in, bring a bunch of media in, and then also make everything available online.

00:06:57   I think this is a very good new starting place to build from.

00:07:01   I think that over the next five years, it's going to continue to grow, like the community event will start to grow more, right, like it used to be.

00:07:08   Because WWDC was whatever it was, and then there was a bunch of stuff that was around it.

00:07:13   My expectation is now we're at the starting point of the next whatever WWDC is going to be.

00:07:19   But I think that the core, like doing it the way Apple's doing it, rather than the convention thing, I think they've done a very good job.

00:07:27   And I'm excited to see where it builds from now.

00:07:29   I agree. And honestly, like, if they are keeping this format, and I guess at this point they are keeping this format, I wouldn't mind if they slowly but surely started expanding the sort of the venue, you know, developers at Apple Park into more like a festival kind of situation.

00:07:49   Because you got the space, right? You got, and it does feel like a festival. Like I think, Mike, you said this.

00:07:55   It does feel like a festival.

00:07:56   I think they walked into the keynote area on Monday, that it looked like a festival. And I think they should lean into that.

00:08:03   They have, for example, that space they built for the Vision Pro demos, that field that they have in front, like I could see, for example, just, you know, a few stands here and there for maybe some beverages, maybe some different food stands and just developers hanging out on the grass.

00:08:23   Right. Like people should be allowed to hang out.

00:08:25   Yes.

00:08:26   Kind of all that. And I think they should have a party. Like they should have a party because they should have a party.

00:08:31   Yes, I agree.

00:08:32   But like these are all like tweaks to this new format. And I think just in general, it's good. Like more than anything, right? Like we said it multiple times a year now, just having everything, just everything available online.

00:08:46   I think it's just better for everyone, like even the people that are there, like you can just do whatever you want to do in the time that you want to do it. Like I just think it works. It works well.

00:08:56   My feedback is that Cupertino is really boring. There is nothing there.

00:09:04   And it's better than San Jose.

00:09:06   Is it though?

00:09:08   Yes, 100 percent. What did you have in San Jose that you did not have in Cupertino?

00:09:13   Streets with sidewalks?

00:09:15   For what?

00:09:16   For walking.

00:09:17   Yeah, but like...

00:09:18   Walking what? From one closed place to another one?

00:09:20   Sure, sure. But like in Cupertino, like, I don't know. It was a very weird experience for me.

00:09:27   Okay.

00:09:28   This sort of suburbium place where all the streets are, they sort of look like each other and they're all like these intersections. And the way people make U-turns is weird.

00:09:43   They have weird street signs that tell you either you turn left or you make a U-turn. And it's very strange. There are no stores. Everything is a strip mall.

00:09:54   And it's very strange to look at. Nothing besides Apple Park and two hotels are taller than two stories.

00:10:06   Like, every single thing is like a two-story building. It's very flat. Everything is very flat.

00:10:13   With a lot of intersections and U-turn signs and strip malls and essentially one hotspot for five restaurants.

00:10:24   I think I have... If you want a different type of vibe, I think I got that for you.

00:10:29   Like, there was a place. It was like 10 minutes and an Uber away. It's called Santana Row.

00:10:34   It's like this little development. I think that might be more what you're looking for, vibe-wise. It was pretty nice around there.

00:10:39   But I just much preferred this to San Jose. I'm sick of San Jose. That place... Sorry if you live in San Jose.

00:10:47   Downtown San Jose is terrible. It's even worse now because there was nothing open before and now what's open is now closed.

00:10:54   It was very sad to walk there.

00:10:57   I have a personal beef with San Jose, which I understand is tainting my opinion.

00:11:05   But I much preferred the overall kind of like speed and vibe of Cupertino to San Jose.

00:11:12   There were more places to eat in that little strip mall than all of San Jose, even when it was busy.

00:11:18   So you could say you walked the empty street on the Boulevard of Broken Dreams.

00:11:23   Correct. Downtown San Jose is the Boulevard of Broken Dreams that Green Day was singing about. I'll tell you that.

00:11:29   That's what that song was about.

00:11:30   That's what that song was about.

00:11:32   I don't know. So the vibe was great. I agree. Keep doing the event at Apple Park.

00:11:37   Cupertino...

00:11:38   Step it up.

00:11:39   And I got to tell you, I was happy to be back in Italy.

00:11:43   Like, this is... I'm realizing now as I'm traveling again, I have become that person.

00:11:50   I am the stereotypical Italian. Like, I love traveling. I love meeting you guys.

00:11:55   I love, you know, for work. It was an incredible event.

00:11:58   But I am like, nothing beats being here for me.

00:12:04   Like, it's just...

00:12:05   Yeah, the pandemic did that to me too.

00:12:07   I'm just like, let's go London, baby. Let's see in the world. Come on.

00:12:11   I did that to me. That's how I feel.

00:12:14   I think you're right. I think it was that.

00:12:17   Yeah, the pandemic really sort of changed me from that point of view.

00:12:22   Like, yeah, you are super patriotic now, which is weird.

00:12:26   Yeah, just like flags and all kinds of stuff. You know what I mean?

00:12:29   Crying all the time. Got an international anthem.

00:12:32   I mean, what could you want?

00:12:34   If we want to know when WWDC is next time, we're going to mark it on our calendars.

00:12:39   Oh, that's good.

00:12:40   That was my transition for you.

00:12:42   Yes. A couple hours before we hit record,

00:12:45   I launched the Kickstarter for the 2024 Apple History Wall Calendar.

00:12:51   This is the third of the trilogy.

00:12:54   And this year I'm focusing on Apple Retail and its services business.

00:12:59   So if you've seen one of these before, following the same format,

00:13:03   instead of actual holidays marked on the calendar,

00:13:06   it's a bunch of days in Apple's history.

00:13:09   And then that's all paired with a bunch of photography.

00:13:13   And this year, some custom artwork celebrating these two components of Apple.

00:13:18   So I'm really excited to get this done.

00:13:20   The Kickstarter runs through July 14th. Jump on board.

00:13:24   Now's a great time.

00:13:25   The best part of the calendar that I've seen and probably that anyone could produce

00:13:30   is the illustration, which is in the page.

00:13:35   You put it on the Kickstarter page.

00:13:38   Can you explain what this illustration is?

00:13:40   Yes. So I worked with a designer to recreate the artwork Apple used for eWorld,

00:13:50   which was sort of like a precursor to AOL, kind of.

00:13:56   You go and there's different sections.

00:13:58   You're not really on the Internet. You're kind of in this walled garden.

00:14:02   And the whole idea with eWorld was, well, it's got to be visual and skeuomorphic

00:14:06   so people can understand it. So they did it like a little town.

00:14:09   You could click on a building and see your email and go over to another one

00:14:12   and read the news.

00:14:14   And so we recreated that with a whole bunch of Easter eggs in it

00:14:17   for the cover of the calendar.

00:14:19   And that image is on the Kickstarter campaign page if you go there.

00:14:24   And it is just amazing.

00:14:26   I'm so happy with how this came out.

00:14:30   And this artwork is done by Siege Roland, who did some stuff for you

00:14:33   a while back too, Mike.

00:14:34   Including the tiny heads tea.

00:14:38   Siege did the tiny heads tea, but he's done so much.

00:14:41   I've had him do some posters for me for different shows and for me upset.

00:14:45   And he also did the recent rumor roundup artwork.

00:14:48   He is an absolutely incredibly talented illustrator, I would say.

00:14:53   It's probably the best way to describe this kind of style.

00:14:57   And he just did just an incredible job with stee world.

00:15:01   Yeah. So I'm not going to spoil any of the Easter eggs,

00:15:04   but there's lots of just little touches in here that make it

00:15:07   a little bit more personal to me and sort of the projects

00:15:11   that we work on as a group.

00:15:13   So really excited about that.

00:15:15   I've got some photography from James Thompson that's going to be in there

00:15:18   from back in the day and a bunch of product photography

00:15:21   like I've done in the previous two years.

00:15:23   But I'm really excited about this.

00:15:25   I think it's a great cap to the trilogy.

00:15:29   And like in previous years, if you don't want a wall calendar

00:15:34   and you just want like digital versions of the photos and the dates,

00:15:38   you can like plug them into your calendar app.

00:15:40   I have those available.

00:15:42   And you can also do stickers at the top, the get it all plan, as I call it.

00:15:47   So lots of fun things.

00:15:49   Definitely a continuation of the previous couple of years worth of work.

00:15:53   But I think with all three of them together,

00:15:56   it really kind of tells the story of Apple up to this point in time.

00:16:00   I look forward to like in 10 years time when you go in and add some CGI characters

00:16:05   to these calendars, you know.

00:16:09   Like a George Lucas thing?

00:16:11   Yeah, when you Lucas it.

00:16:13   That's a Star War joke, Federico.

00:16:14   No, I get it. I know what you mean.

00:16:16   Cool. Just checking.

00:16:17   I know some of the stuff of Star Wars.

00:16:22   I know that people hate George Lucas.

00:16:25   I have sympathy for George Lucas, to be honest.

00:16:28   There's a really good documentary on Disney+ about Industrial Light and Magic,

00:16:34   which I think does a good job of kind of explaining George Lucas.

00:16:39   I kind of see him as like he had a vision for what he wanted it to be,

00:16:44   but he couldn't do it because technology wouldn't allow for it.

00:16:47   So he made his movies, then technology allowed him to do it.

00:16:50   So he's like, finally, I can make my movies look the way that I always wanted them to.

00:16:54   So he did that and everyone hated it.

00:16:56   So I feel bad for him, honestly.

00:16:58   Anyway, Kickstarter campaign.

00:17:00   Yes, yes. It funded in like 20 minutes, which is incredible.

00:17:04   And we're over 250 people so far.

00:17:07   So thank you all who jumped on it immediately.

00:17:10   And yeah, I'm excited to get these out to everybody towards the end of the year.

00:17:14   At least you didn't publish it by accident this time.

00:17:16   Yes, the first year, and people may not know this,

00:17:18   the first year I was going through the process.

00:17:20   And with Kickstarter, you have to have your project approved.

00:17:25   And all three of them approved instantly, like hit the button, bam approval.

00:17:30   So I don't know if someone's looking at it or not.

00:17:32   But the first so after that, the next screen is very confusing.

00:17:38   It's you can go and do like some promotional stuff, or you can just take it live.

00:17:43   And that button is not as clear as it should be.

00:17:46   So what is going to happen when you click it?

00:17:49   And so the first one, I was going to launch it midweek like I did this time.

00:17:53   And so on the Friday before, I was like, well, I'll go ahead and get it submitted.

00:17:58   And so it'll be like ready to go next time.

00:18:02   And I took it live at like 6 p.m. Eastern on a Friday.

00:18:07   And I was like, well, it's up.

00:18:09   I might as well I guess I might as well promote it.

00:18:11   So I was able to to get that going.

00:18:14   But yeah, it was a little a little embarrassing last time.

00:18:16   So this is the end of a trilogy.

00:18:18   It is interesting. Interesting.

00:18:21   What are you going to do next year?

00:18:23   I don't know. That's a problem for future Stephen.

00:18:26   OK. And I've said this before.

00:18:28   The dates from this one, some a lot of them were researched last year.

00:18:32   So my initial approach last year was going to be software and services.

00:18:36   And as I got into it, I realized I had way too much content.

00:18:40   Like it was going to be way too many things on the calendar.

00:18:43   And so this so for that one, I set aside the service dates.

00:18:47   Like I moved them into their own document and closed it for a year.

00:18:50   And then when it was time to start research on this one,

00:18:53   I had a pretty good head start.

00:18:55   And so I'm glad with how that worked out, because it's kind of a mirror of how Apple works.

00:19:00   You know, hardware, software, the services that kind of glue it all together.

00:19:04   And so it was it was nice to have a head start.

00:19:06   That's one reason this Kickstarter is like three weeks earlier than it was last year,

00:19:09   because I'm much further along in the process.

00:19:13   All the research is done. Most of the layout is done.

00:19:17   It's in a round of fact checking and I have some photography to finish,

00:19:20   but much in much better shape this time than I was say June of last year.

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00:21:20   Have you guys heard of Reddit?

00:21:23   I've been seeing it a lot recently around the internet.

00:21:26   Reddit.com. Have you heard about it?

00:21:30   There's not a lot on that website.

00:21:32   They're having quite a week though, that's for sure.

00:21:34   It gets a lot of people talking about it. There's not a lot on it.

00:21:37   So, like, you go there, most of it's just private. I don't understand.

00:21:41   Can someone explain to me what this Reddit is? I don't get it.

00:21:44   It's an invitation only website.

00:21:46   Why can't I pick it out? I don't get it.

00:21:49   There's a queue. Sir, please get in line and wait for your turn.

00:21:53   Maybe one day.

00:21:55   How do we talk about Reddit? I don't even know how to talk about Reddit.

00:21:58   This is silly, right? What they're doing.

00:22:01   So, is this the first time we're talking about this on the show?

00:22:03   It is.

00:22:05   Alright, so Reddit, like Twitter, very much like Twitter,

00:22:08   recently announced some major changes to their API program

00:22:12   for third-party developers who want to create apps compatible with Reddit.

00:22:16   You may be familiar with some of them, like Apollo,

00:22:19   which is arguably the most popular one on iOS.

00:22:23   There's also a bunch of other ones.

00:22:25   Mike, I don't know if you still use or used to use.

00:22:27   Norwall was one of them.

00:22:29   Norwall is my Reddit app of choice.

00:22:31   On Android, you have one called Sync.

00:22:35   There's another called Relay, I believe. Is that it?

00:22:39   Yeah, Relay for Reddit.

00:22:41   It's on Android.

00:22:43   There's a bunch for Windows, and these are all clients that let you read.

00:22:46   An app that I don't understand the name of,

00:22:49   but I keep seeing is Riff is Fun for Reddit,

00:22:52   and Riff means Reddit is Fun, so the actual name is Reddit is Fun is Fun for Reddit.

00:22:56   Sure.

00:22:58   That would be it, but that one is a big one on Android

00:23:01   that I see mentioned in kind of the same breath as Apollo.

00:23:04   And essentially, the changes that Reddit announced

00:23:08   included these new pricing tiers for the API,

00:23:12   which were so expensive that it forced developers

00:23:17   like Christian Selig of Apollo to come out in public and say,

00:23:23   "If Reddit is not going to change your mind on how expensive these API calls will be

00:23:30   for third-party apps like Apollo,

00:23:32   it'll be unsustainable for me to continue making the app

00:23:35   unless I come up with $20 million by the summer."

00:23:38   That's the extent of the incredibly pricey tiers

00:23:44   that Reddit announced for third-party developers.

00:23:47   And the theory here is that, of course, Reddit is sort of kind of preparing for an IPO,

00:23:52   and they want to make sure that every single part of their service is monetized,

00:23:57   and that includes the API.

00:23:59   Now, this whole drama unfolded because months ago,

00:24:03   Reddit promised that the pricing tiers for the API

00:24:07   would be totally sustainable for developers, they would be fair,

00:24:10   and Christian, the developer of Apollo, but others also

00:24:14   have been documenting on their subreddits, on their respective apps, subreddits,

00:24:19   this process for the past four months or so.

00:24:22   I remember Christian writing in February, maybe,

00:24:26   that he just had a call with Reddit management.

00:24:29   They promised that the API restructuring and, you know,

00:24:34   in terms of pricing would be fair, would be accessible to developers.

00:24:38   And then a couple of weeks ago, they officially announced these pricing tiers,

00:24:43   and just like the Twitter API, it is crazy expensive

00:24:47   for an indie developer like Christian to realistically sustain, you know,

00:24:53   hundreds of thousands of users that Apollo has,

00:24:57   would incur him costs of, yeah, essentially upwards of like $20 million.

00:25:03   He said on the Vergecast today, it's like, I think he said 2 million monthly active subscribers.

00:25:08   Two million--oh, wow.

00:25:10   Two million monthly active in Apollo?

00:25:12   I think that's what he said.

00:25:13   That is incredible.

00:25:14   That's going to be users, right, not subscribers?

00:25:16   Yeah, sorry, users. Yes, users.

00:25:18   Yeah, because if he had 2 million monthly active subscribers, I think he'd be okay.

00:25:22   Yeah.

00:25:23   Okay.

00:25:24   I am summarizing real quick here,

00:25:27   and Christian had a couple of calls with the Reddit CEO, Steve Huffman, I want to say.

00:25:35   And it all got kind of ugly in that Christian later wrote on the subreddit how the call went.

00:25:45   Reddit was not budging from their position of, no, this is going to be the price of the API.

00:25:50   And then this was last week or 10 days or so ago, I believe.

00:25:55   A few rumors started going around that Christian, the maker of Apollo, was blackmailing Reddit.

00:26:03   There's just a lot of mudslinging now.

00:26:05   Yes.

00:26:06   And so it all--

00:26:07   We've kind of reached that stage.

00:26:09   We've reached that stage where Christian had to say, well, I tried my best.

00:26:15   But as we were at WWDC, he announced that he's going to discontinue Apollo on June 30th at the end of the month,

00:26:24   just before the API cutoff sort of begins.

00:26:30   And he published excerpts of all sort of the receipts that he has, transcripts and snippets of the phone calls that he recorded with Reddit.

00:26:45   There's a long explanation on the Apollo subreddit.

00:26:48   And as a result of that, the whole situation kind of exploded in that a bunch of--

00:26:57   Initially, a bunch of subreddits announced this protest, sort of this planned blackout of subreddits.

00:27:07   Now, the context here is that a subreddit is totally governed by the moderators of a subreddit.

00:27:14   And moderators have the power to not only, of course, moderate content and users,

00:27:19   but they can also take a subreddit, which is a subcommunity on Reddit, like, for example, the Apple subreddit.

00:27:26   Or the Cortex subreddit. You know, you got the idea. The iPad subreddit and so forth.

00:27:32   They can take a subreddit private, which means it's no longer accessible to the outside world.

00:27:40   It's like a blackout, essentially.

00:27:43   And initially it was like a handful of subreddits sort of agreed to do this protest in support of Apollo,

00:27:51   but also third-party developers and third-party apps in general, and against the approach taken by the current Reddit management.

00:28:00   And then this protest sort of started spreading to the point where by yesterday,

00:28:05   the vast majority of the most popular subreddits--

00:28:11   I'm talking subreddits with 20, 30, 40 million subscribers, like gaming, for example.

00:28:17   One of the biggest subreddits on the site. They all went private.

00:28:23   To the point where with all these subreddits going private, I guess the Reddit infrastructure was not prepared to have all that private content.

00:28:34   And so Reddit crashed yesterday for a few hours.

00:28:38   That's what they want you to think.

00:28:40   Oh!

00:28:41   Interesting. Interesting.

00:28:43   And we now get to today, where we know that Steve Huffman, the CEO of Reddit, sent a memo yesterday to Reddit employees saying that,

00:28:56   "Oh, this is another protest. It'll pass, just like every other protest we've seen in years before."

00:29:03   And they're not changing their mind, but the protest is still ongoing.

00:29:08   And Reddit, if you go right now, it is essentially a ghost town of just--

00:29:13   It's less of one today. So there's a tracker called Redoc.

00:29:19   A few came back?

00:29:20   Redoc. Yeah, we're at 6, just 6,100 subreddits currently, Doc. It was like over 8,000 yesterday.

00:29:27   Because today, technically, is when the protest ended.

00:29:32   The original idea for it was that it would be like a two-day thing, right?

00:29:36   Right.

00:29:37   But then a lot of subreddits have pledged that they will remain private.

00:29:41   I think that's unknown, right? Like how long or if that's going to remain the case.

00:29:47   Like, this is one of those things where Reddit is like perfect for something like this, which is honestly like why this whole thing has happened.

00:29:58   I don't think this kind of community action could occur anywhere else. This is so perfect for Reddit.

00:30:07   Because Reddit, at its core, has a community mischief.

00:30:13   You think of when they did the-- I don't know what it's called, but the pixel thing.

00:30:19   Sub-Redits could paint a pixel on a piece of art.

00:30:23   And it's like this, we as a community, all of our subreddit communities can organize and do a thing.

00:30:30   Which is why now it's like extending past the two days because it's like grown and morphed.

00:30:35   Yeah, r/place, that's what I'm thinking of.

00:30:39   So now it's like the original idea was just two days and now it's like, "Oh, well, a bunch of them are going to stay dark for longer."

00:30:45   I don't feel like I have a sense for how long this is going to last.

00:30:49   I kind of see what the guy is saying, it will pass, but the problem is what's left afterwards.

00:30:55   Like, yes, this will pass, but to what end?

00:30:58   The whole thing just seems so ridiculous to me.

00:31:01   I understand why Reddit are in this situation where they need to charge because VC investments dried up, the company makes no money,

00:31:09   and the only path is to try and float it on the stock market.

00:31:13   They're very upset about the fact that a lot of the large language models are trained using their data and they want to charge people for that.

00:31:19   That I understand, but I don't understand why they need to have a blanket API fee.

00:31:24   They could just tear it, right?

00:31:26   If you're a large language model and you want to train against that data, it costs you this much.

00:31:29   If you're a third-party app, it costs you this much.

00:31:32   I don't understand why it's so difficult.

00:31:35   It's not unreasonable to say pay, but it doesn't need to be the level that it is.

00:31:41   It could be way less and you're still making money, more money than you were making before because you couldn't serve ads effectively to these people.

00:31:48   And I feel like you're not going to get everyone, but someone who's paying, paying for a third-party app probably has a little bit extra that they would pay.

00:31:58   You could pay directly to Reddit or whatever, or if you want to use a third-party app when you try and log in, it's like, hey, you want to use this app?

00:32:06   You've also got to give us 50 cents a month or $10 a year or whatever.

00:32:12   Or maybe you've got to sign up for Reddit Premium or something.

00:32:17   Yeah. None of this seems complicated, so I don't really understand why it's gotten to this point.

00:32:23   It's so strange to me.

00:32:25   It's very strange. It's also very silly and sort of so counterintuitive, I think, to upset the very people who feel the strongest about Reddit.

00:32:40   Folks who use Apollo, and it turns out it's a couple of million people, are arguably power users of Reddit.

00:32:50   And then there's the folks who are using other iOS clients and folks who are using Android clients.

00:32:56   It's a few million people, realistically, and they feel very strongly about the service.

00:33:03   A service that is, by definition, made by the community.

00:33:09   Like, Reddit without subreddits, nobody's interested in reading the updates of Steve, the Reddit CEO.

00:33:15   Like, people don't sign up for that. People do too.

00:33:18   I don't know if it's because they were very interested during his AMA, but that was a different reason.

00:33:23   People don't follow Reddit because of Reddit staff. People follow Reddit because they find other people with similar interests.

00:33:31   And it just seems to me, and I mean, look, I run a very small community, but it feels kind of counterintuitive to me to be like,

00:33:42   "You know what a great business plan is? To upset the very people who love us and see what happens."

00:33:48   Like, I mean, sure, you can try that if you like to watch the world burn, if you're into that sort of stuff.

00:33:54   Because you sure did just that. And this drama with the phone calls and the accusations.

00:34:02   What is this? This is like middle school. This is silly.

00:34:05   And honestly, I feel like a distraction from it anyway. Like, it's not really what this is about.

00:34:10   You know, have some class. Come on. What's this? This blackmailing? This is so silly.

00:34:19   And they made it so complicated on themselves. Just come up with the pricing tier for the open--

00:34:26   Because let's face it, you just want to ask the open AI people for a bunch of money.

00:34:32   Rightfully so, because they trained their model against your data.

00:34:35   And you should really charge them. Because, I mean, Reddit, you know, it powers open AI and it powers Google search results.

00:34:45   And you should go to open AI in Google and ask them for money. I agree.

00:34:49   But similarly, I will make the point, right? If third-party developers are able to make money, then they should also pay.

00:34:56   Or there should be--like, if the third-party app developers are not paying, you make users pay.

00:35:02   I don't think that that is unfair, right? Like, if Reddit's not making any money, but Apollo's making money, Reddit's like, "Hey! What about us?"

00:35:10   And I don't think that that is an unfair stance. It's just, clearly it was not--

00:35:15   It wasn't even just like, they knew it was coming and they said it was going to be fair.

00:35:20   And then it came and it wasn't fair and there was no more conversation.

00:35:23   It's just like, the way that these things unfolded was just all wrong.

00:35:26   And plus, people compare Reddit and Twitter, which I understand.

00:35:29   But I think there's a key difference where using Twitter, using Twitter's tools is fine.

00:35:34   Using Reddit, using Reddit's tools, not fine.

00:35:37   Like, the Reddit app is not good. The Reddit website is just terrible. It's so bad. I don't understand.

00:35:44   Every single time you open a reddit.com link in Safari on your iPhone,

00:35:49   and half of the page is taken over by that moral pop-up, it's terrible.

00:35:55   Everything about it is terrible. So, yeah, maybe they should also rethink their approach to like,

00:36:01   maybe they should try and have a real native product that doesn't suck.

00:36:06   But that's a different problem.

00:36:08   I think maybe Reddit just took a look at the Apollo numbers, for example,

00:36:12   and figured, "Hey, this guy has 2 million users and they make, I don't know, 1 billion requests per month.

00:36:21   Surely, this guy can come up with 10 million dollars." Or maybe they just...

00:36:25   Yes, that's probably it.

00:36:29   And so they just grossly overestimated what they could charge people,

00:36:33   and then for some reason decided not to change course on it.

00:36:36   It seems like a bunch of mistakes. Mistakes are fine, but then they didn't react to them.

00:36:42   Like, you know what you were saying earlier about upsetting your community.

00:36:44   People upset their communities all the time, but it's what you do when you found out you've upset people.

00:36:48   That's the important thing, because it's not possible to be perfect.

00:36:52   It's like, you've upset people. Why did you upset them? Can you fix it? Fix it.

00:36:57   And then they just decided to choose maximum chaos instead.

00:37:02   And at a point where I don't know, it doesn't seem possible at this stage to try and imagine how the situation will resolve itself.

00:37:11   Because I feel like Twitter is easier, where it's like people just continue using it, and that's the end of it.

00:37:16   It's just going to keep being used until it goes away, but you can kind of predict where it's going to go now, I feel like.

00:37:22   But with Reddit, I don't really feel like it's easy to predict.

00:37:25   My expectation is what will happen is slowly these Reddits will start to unlock again, but then post that, I don't know what happens.

00:37:32   Probably, I agree with you.

00:37:35   I think realistically, a lot of people will try and use the...

00:37:40   You can use old Reddit if you go to old Reddit.com, and if you just put old dot before any Reddit.com URL, it takes you to the old interface.

00:37:53   I think Reddit will most likely kill that, because they want people to use the new version of the site.

00:38:01   But yeah, past that, I have no idea.

00:38:05   The product itself, if you don't use a third-party app or browser extensions or whatever, it's so bad.

00:38:13   Realistically, I cannot imagine myself going to the Apple subreddit via the native Reddit app or the Reddit website.

00:38:22   It just really, it's so bad.

00:38:25   So I don't know, I have no idea.

00:38:27   I think the subreddits will come back.

00:38:29   I'm surprised that the CEO was allowed to make this whole mess without any repercussions.

00:38:38   Well, he was the founder too.

00:38:40   I don't know.

00:38:41   I mean, I just don't know if people can actually argue with him.

00:38:44   I'm not sure if he has one of those Zuckerberg-like situations.

00:38:48   They don't have shareholders?

00:38:50   It's complicated.

00:38:51   So I don't know if this is the case, but Mark Zuckerberg is in a situation at Facebook where he has the ultimate say.

00:38:58   Like, it's all about voting stock.

00:39:01   So if he wants to do something, this is like that metaverse thing.

00:39:05   No one can tell him he can't do it.

00:39:07   He can just do it.

00:39:09   I don't know what the situation is with Reddit, but I feel like Federico at a certain point, they're all just like, "Well, we're screwed if we don't do something."

00:39:17   Because they don't make money, and there's no VC money anymore.

00:39:20   This is why the IPO is even floated.

00:39:23   The situation is, what else are you going to do?

00:39:26   I reckon someone could buy them.

00:39:29   I was listening to the Chateque Daily Update today, and Ben was suggesting that people have been positing that Google could just buy Reddit, which just feels like a great idea for everyone.

00:39:40   I mean, it's the best source of actually human search results.

00:39:46   I've been appending the word Reddit to all my Google queries for years now.

00:39:51   Same.

00:39:52   It's the only way to find actual non-content-form content from people on the internet these days.

00:40:03   I didn't remember this, but Condé Nast own Reddit.

00:40:07   This is not a thing that I remember happening at all.

00:40:10   But nevertheless, I don't know what kind of control Huffman has.

00:40:14   But yeah, I'd forgotten that completely.

00:40:16   I don't know. I don't know.

00:40:18   Honestly, in our community, talking strictly about our side of things, it's very sad to see Apollo end up like this.

00:40:30   After eight years, one of the very best apps on the platform, it just...

00:40:37   I don't know.

00:40:39   Honestly, it's terrible.

00:40:41   And it's the second time in the span of a few months that this happened.

00:40:46   First with Tutorific and Tweetbot, now with Apollo.

00:40:49   I don't know what it says about the idea of, you know, maybe you shouldn't build an entire business on top of an API that you don't have control over,

00:41:04   or that it's not federated in the sense that if it stops working, you can just go to another server that offers the same service, right?

00:41:14   Because we've seen in just, what, three months?

00:41:18   Two very similar stories here.

00:41:20   Third party clients that got the, you know, the rug pulled from under them, another gun.

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00:42:57   Apple Vision Pro.

00:42:59   So we didn't get a lot of time to talk about this on the last episode.

00:43:02   Federico had had a demo, I think the day before or the morning of the episode.

00:43:09   I then had my Vision Pro hands-on experience just afterwards.

00:43:14   We've both since, like many people, been thinking about it a lot and have published content talking about it.

00:43:21   And I guess we should talk about it a little here too. Federico, you just published your article, which is full of, as I said to you, I texted you and said like you had the ability of explaining things that I was not able to get across.

00:43:34   Like how kind of the way that using the Vision Pro made me feel.

00:43:38   Because it's quite complicated to explain this, I think.

00:43:43   But it really does feel like, and I think people get a sense of this even if they haven't tried it, this does really feel like the beginning of a new frontier for personal computing.

00:43:57   It's very, it's, thank you for the kind words on the article.

00:44:04   And I think it's very difficult to talk about it also because, like, first of all, it was a 30-minute demo for a product that is not even out.

00:44:14   And it's a lot like you can tell people, yeah, you should go to the Apple Store and check it out.

00:44:19   And it was a very sort of guided, crafted demo for something that has no frame of reference, right?

00:44:30   It's not like you're describing a new iPhone or a new iPad.

00:44:34   It's not even a new type of computer. It's something completely different.

00:44:39   And so I think for me the challenge was, no, there were two challenges.

00:44:44   One of them was describing what it feels like.

00:44:48   But the second was also retaining in my notes and in my brain how I felt.

00:44:58   Because as you're using it, you think all these things, right?

00:45:03   But the demo goes so quickly, right?

00:45:07   So fast.

00:45:08   It goes so fast that you're just jumping from experience to experience.

00:45:12   And I was not taking, you cannot take notes as you're trying it.

00:45:17   And so by the end of the demo, I had all these thoughts, but I was also speechless.

00:45:23   And there were people asking me, so what did you think? Because they do like a little Q&A at the end.

00:45:28   I'm like, come and ask these questions. Like, oh, I have no questions.

00:45:32   And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know.

00:45:36   And so I figured I'm a slow writer that I know about myself, especially for these things.

00:45:45   And I needed to think about it.

00:45:47   So I figured, you know, I'm going to take some notes for sort of these like bigger ideas that I want to talk about.

00:45:55   I will let the, you know, I will let other people who are much faster than me sort of do these hands-on articles and like first impressions.

00:46:03   But yeah, I'm pretty happy that, you know, I waited a week because it kind of gave me an opportunity to think it through on my way back to Italy.

00:46:15   And also sort of explaining it to Sylvia also helped.

00:46:20   And just talking about it with friends, you know, who asked me, so what is it like?

00:46:26   I feel like it was good to write about it outside of the bubble of WWDC.

00:46:33   It seems like both of y'all just keep thinking about it, right? I've heard you both mention that in a bunch of places.

00:46:40   I don't know about you, Mike, but personally it just feels like you tried this very sweet thing and they take it back from you after 30 minutes.

00:46:55   And you're like, no, give it back to me.

00:46:58   I really wanted to just do the whole thing again because also I know there was stuff I was missing.

00:47:04   And it's a very well-crafted demo and I expect Crafted in that way.

00:47:10   They are speeding you through it.

00:47:12   I think partly because it needed to be on some kind of rails.

00:47:16   I've heard various accounts of people who just tried a thing and it didn't work.

00:47:21   I think I heard someone say, I think it might have been Matt Thompson, that they brought up the keyboard and it just didn't work.

00:47:28   Which makes sense, right? It was just like a very do this, do this, do that.

00:47:32   So there was more that I wanted to be able to do, but they're like, obviously just like bringing it.

00:47:36   Hey, try this, just do this. And you're like going through it.

00:47:38   And I wanted to do the whole thing over again so I could actually pay more attention in certain areas.

00:47:46   So you are left with this feeling of like, you've got just a taste.

00:47:51   And I want to do more with it.

00:47:54   And now I'm seeing things like right now I'm talking to you and my vision of my laptop is obscured by my microphone stand.

00:48:03   Same.

00:48:04   And I would quite like to be wearing a Vision Pro so I could have a large screen rather than my 13 inch screen because everything's overlapping.

00:48:12   And also it wouldn't matter that the microphone stands in the way, although I might bump it a few times.

00:48:16   But I guess I'd be using it in spatial so I would see it anyway, right? Because you'd have to pass through.

00:48:22   And so I could move things around. I could put it up there a little bit in front of me on the wall so I could look up rather than trying to look down.

00:48:28   I keep bumping into these situations where I feel like it would be nicer if I could do this.

00:48:35   And then the more I found out from developers about the way that these apps can kind of work is very exciting to me.

00:48:43   Because when you're doing the demo, the apps are all kind of just in this one line in front of you.

00:48:50   But you can actually put them wherever you want. You could just take an app and put it on the desk and just leave it there.

00:48:57   But I didn't really have that experience as such. There was a window that I moved around but I personally didn't move it in a strange way.

00:49:07   Oh I did.

00:49:09   But the only one I did that to was the FaceTime one because my FaceTime experience was so bad I didn't want to look at the face anymore.

00:49:16   So I just took that and put it behind me. But the idea that I could take a clock widget and put it on my desk and I could take a photo widget and put it on the wall.

00:49:29   That kind of idea is so tantalizing to me. And now I just keep seeing it everywhere. How I could use this device.

00:49:40   It's so complicated to explain. You do sound a lot like you're talking about a dream that you had. Which is always a thing with AR and VR I think.

00:49:51   Because you are trying to describe something that you could see that nobody else could see. So it definitely has that dream-like feeling to it.

00:49:59   Yeah and I think Federico did a good job of explaining the way that things made him feel. Especially the 3D photos and videos which I found to be an unsettling but not necessarily in a bad way kind of experience.

00:50:14   But it was just like seeing something you were. And I think the weird part was seeing somebody else's memories.

00:50:20   If they were my images I think I would probably have cried my eyes out just looking at them. But you're like "I'm a dad of this child. This is this child's birthday." It's very strange. It's a very peculiar feeling.

00:50:32   I keep thinking about the photos. I keep thinking about the video. The Apple immersive video two minute montage that we saw. But also as I try to explain in my story I feel like we should not ignore the potential for...

00:50:56   And thankfully the three of us were not doing that. But I see a lot of folks doing it. Saying "Oh it's just an entertainment device."

00:51:04   And I'm gonna offer a prediction here. I was talking about this with John. OTJ. And it's why I sort of structured my story the way I did.

00:51:14   I think come next year that whole thing that we've been sort of talking about for a decade. You cannot use an iPad for real work. I think that argument will find new life. Will be repurposed as "Oh you cannot do productive work on a vision pro."

00:51:36   And the only place that I'm seeing this pop up is people saying to me "Oh but there's an app store so it can't replace the Mac." And it's like "Ahh." I know what you're saying. That you can't just install whatever software you want. But you need to forget about that.

00:51:52   In that scenario you're forgetting the iPhone exists. The iPhone is a bigger deal than the Mac. More people use the iPhone every day to do their work than Macs. That's just numbers.

00:52:08   And I know that I can't install some homebrew thing on my vision pro. But I don't think you need that. If the Mac app store was fully stocked we'd just use the Mac app store.

00:52:24   It's just because people don't want to put the software on there because they like the flexibility of not needing to. But we're entering into this new world. The iPhone is great. It has all the apps you're going to need and all the experiences you're going to need. Or you can just use a web browser. I think vision pro is just going to be the same scenario. Forget that. Just forget it. It's a different thing.

00:52:47   And also, I mean, come on. Let's face it. Programmers with opinions are not exactly, you know, they're not exactly the pulse of the average population on earth.

00:53:01   Like, oh, I'm a programmer and I cannot install this weird command line tool on an iPad. Therefore, it's like, dude, you need your programmer and like, you know, nine out of ten people don't need to do that on a computer.

00:53:22   Like, whether they're students or lawyers or doctors or whatever. So like, I feel like that conversation, however, like all those people have been waiting for a new platform to sort of attach this theory onto. And I feel like with stage manager.

00:53:43   Did I say stage manager? I didn't mean to say stage manager. I like the Freudian slip there. With vision pro, they're just gonna go for it because it's such a perfect opportunity. But see, it's so early to say this, but I think that the iPad quote unquote didn't work.

00:54:02   Right. In the sense of like, this is the next thing in computing. I think we can feel pretty confident that that's not the case. Like it didn't replace anything. Not that I really think the vision pro will replace anything specifically, but like there was an idea for the iPad or what it could be.

00:54:19   And it didn't catch on and replace for enough people, their laptops, I think, because realistically the iPad and a MacBook are too similar. Right. So like there isn't, I don't think a enough of a compelling use case for a iPad, the keyboard, the people where they can just use a Mac and a keyboard.

00:54:40   The vision pro there isn't anything that exists like this. Like it is compelling on its own because it's doing something hugely different than a laptop and an iPad or a Mac. Right. Like they are, it is projecting this environment.

00:54:57   You can have this mixed kind of view. It's doing things that don't exist, which I think gives it a better chance of being successful than the iPad had at being successful. I'm not saying you have to agree with me, but do you follow where I'm going with that?

00:55:11   Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I think the fact that it stands on its own and has no similar product definitely helps in terms of like, oh, this thing can, you know, it's not a replacement, which I think has long been the problem of the iPad. Right.

00:55:31   And likely the reason why the iPad pro even exists and we don't need to get into all of that. But I do feel like there's, I think you're right. I think that that will definitely help the product.

00:55:43   Well, see, I mean, I do feel like it'll be perfect for entertainment, for communication or, you know, I have my concerns about gaming. I didn't talk about gaming at all in my story just because it just, you know, it was not part of the demo. Apple didn't either.

00:56:02   Apple didn't either. They literally just showed like a person with a dual sense controller playing.

00:56:09   Look at this very immersive way to just play an iPad game.

00:56:13   So we'll see. What I know is that it's gonna like, on one hand, I am happy that this is not coming out until next year because it just gives me an opportunity to, you know, think about iOS and iPadOS 17 this summer and in the fall.

00:56:34   And it's great for us as content creators too, right? We have like six months to talk about the same before it comes out. Then it comes out. We talk about it for years. Thanks, Apple. You know what I mean? We could just O-Pine for the next six months based on these half an hour that we have.

00:56:46   But I also want it. So it's gonna be very challenging to wait at the very least six months or more, most likely seven, eight, nine months if this thing comes out in March. So yeah.

00:57:07   I'm not sure how I want to ask this. I didn't experience it like y'all did, but I get the sense from everyone talking about this who did it.

00:57:16   This is a much more feelings based product than we've seen from Apple, maybe ever. Like I have feelings about the Macintosh, right? But most people don't, right? Most of the people see these as tools that overlap in weird ways sometimes.

00:57:30   And that's where you get some of the discussion you just talked about. But something about this makes it feel so much more personal and intimate. And I do worry a little bit about that when it comes to like first impressions.

00:57:46   I'm sure we've all had people talk to us, you know, even in the audience, right? People just know this is coming. People feel like creeped out by it or they're really excited about it or they don't want something on their face like it feels like this is a little bit of a different bracketing for the conversation than we've had before.

00:58:03   And I want to kind of keep tabs on that as we move closer to launch than after launch because I'm not sure an Apple product has had to deal with this in this kind of way before or at least to this extent. Does that make sense?

00:58:18   Oh, it makes perfect sense because it's so different and it does come from these multiple angles, right? I didn't feel comfortable about Apple entering this because I was worried about like shutting off to the world. But I feel like their entire product is focused on trying to stay connected with the outside world.

00:58:39   And so I feel a bit more comfortable with it. But then like I'm still reserving judgment for like, I didn't see notifications as such. Like they only really showed one. And I'm like keen to see what is that like, you know, because I don't like the idea of just like notifications being beamed into my eyeballs.

00:59:00   So that's one set of feelings. But the other side of the feelings is like what you were driving at the beginning of like we are we feel very me and Federico feel very strongly about this having experienced it.

00:59:12   But I think for me, most of my emotional feelings are coming from the entertainment aspect because it's more immersive. But using it like a computer is just a very impressive thing.

00:59:23   I'm not like in love with the user interface, you know what I mean? But like I was just stunned at how impressive it was. It was very funny to me to I had a nostalgia that I didn't realize until I read Federico's article that it does look like the PlayStation Vita interface, which is very funny.

00:59:41   But yeah, I think that it draws a sense of emotion out of you as the user because it's surprising. It's different. It's incredibly impressive. But then there are these emotional things, which are photos, videos, movies, that everyone will have that experience the same way that they do today from looking on their other devices, I think.

01:00:00   I feel like this happens because it's the maybe a good way to describe it is it's the most intimate product they've built. I mean, because it literally goes on your face and in front of your eyes.

01:00:15   It's a feelings-based product, which is a really good description, Stephen, because it tricks your brain into seeing a different or slightly altered reality.

01:00:31   And, you know, unless you're a robot, you know, that will create feelings in people, you know? So, yeah, the feelings-based product. I really like that. I really like that. Yeah, we'll see. I really want one.

01:00:50   Before we wrap this segment up, I wanted to push people towards three pieces of content. One, Stephen has Apple Vision info that we all hope that you would have, which is talking about the history of Apple Vision, where that name comes from.

01:01:05   It was very funny to me, Stephen. I was doing some like calculate because it's about a bunch of monitors. I was doing some calculations and the Apple Vision 850 AV, the Apple Vision ColorSync 850 AV was $1,999 in 1997. That makes it as expensive as the Apple Vision Pro in today's money.

01:01:27   And that thing weighed like 87 pounds. So you really got your money's worth. Imagine putting that on your face. You would have been in trouble. In case people haven't listened, I want to recommend my episode of Cortex that I did.

01:01:42   If you want to know what the demo is like, I chronologically went through the demo, recorded the very next morning. So I was very feelings raw in that episode. I'm very proud of it. And also underscore David Smith has written a great article kind of, I think, evangelizing why people should be considering about developing for Vision OS, talking about why he is considering, not considering why he is, and he makes a statement in the post, is developing for Vision OS.

01:02:11   So I recommend people go and check that out too.

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01:04:06   Thanks to NetSuite for the support of the show and Relay FM. So I wanted to wrap up this week by doing a round robin on some of the smaller things that have come out in the week since WBC.

01:04:19   Some of these things were one sentence in the keynote and then more comes out on the website. Some weren't mentioned verbally at all by Apple, but as we've all gone through the product pages for these OS previews and as some of us have been using the betas,

01:04:33   we have some things we want to touch on. Before we do though, I actually want to ask where y'all are with the betas. So Mike, let's start with you.

01:04:43   Zero.

01:04:44   No beta.

01:04:45   Because I'm not a madman. I'm traveling right now. So none. Zero.

01:04:52   Federico?

01:04:53   I put it on my main phone as I was traveling and I also have it on my iPad Pro.

01:05:01   We would expect nothing less.

01:05:02   What about you, Steven? Yeah.

01:05:03   I have it on my iPad mini.

01:05:06   Oh, okay.

01:05:07   That's it so far. No real stage manager changes on the iPad mini. It didn't magically show up for me.

01:05:13   And I will have Sonoma on a M1 MacBook Air that I picked up for testing and for screenshots and stuff. I will get that set up when I get home. I like Mike.

01:05:24   I'm traveling. So not on my phone. I generally do the phone once the public beta is out and I'll do the dev builds, but kind of in conjunction with the beta program.

01:05:37   So I'll be on the phone here in probably about a month or so.

01:05:41   I don't do anything on my phone until at least beta three.

01:05:44   Yeah.

01:05:45   That's like my rule for myself. And then I will also kind of test it out here and there.

01:05:50   What I will say, I am tempted by the iPad Pro running this. I don't have an iPad Pro, but like I'm considering it maybe.

01:06:01   But if I do that, it's not going to be for a couple of months time.

01:06:04   Okay.

01:06:05   I'm just intrigued. Stage managers looks really nice. And so like I'm intrigued by it again.

01:06:11   Well, let's round robin this up. Mike, you are first.

01:06:14   As audio and home expert.

01:06:16   New title.

01:06:17   Yeah. I would like to talk about VPN support in tvOS 17.

01:06:22   So that's the native thing that Apple has added that I'm very excited about because you would be able to install a VPN.

01:06:30   I use ExpressVPN. They sponsor some shows, but you can use any VPN you would like.

01:06:35   And what it would allow me to do is to be able to watch content from other territories directly on my Apple TV.

01:06:42   Well, like I've done it in the past where I want to watch a thing, but it's in the US only. And so I've had to use my iPhone and then AirPlay it to the TV.

01:06:50   Now I would need to do that because I'd be able to use my VPN directly on my Apple TV. I think this is really good.

01:06:55   Very cool. Yeah. I was excited to see this and a little surprised.

01:06:59   Like the only reason I think you would run a VPN on Apple TV is to do exactly what you said.

01:07:05   Well, what Apple say.

01:07:07   Yeah. Read Apple's quote because it's very funny.

01:07:11   Where is it? Third party VPN support enables developers to create VPN apps for Apple TV.

01:07:16   This can benefit enterprise and education users wanting to access content on their private networks, allowing Apple TV to be a great office and conference room solution in even more places.

01:07:26   Yeah, sure buddy.

01:07:27   It's like, yeah, that's true, but come on, you know, like, but hey, keep it to yourself Apple. So no one gets mad at you. We appreciate what you're doing.

01:07:37   The feature I want to mention is internal linking in notes, which I cannot believe they've done it, but they've done it.

01:07:46   And as you can expect, it's a simplified sort of Apple version of the Wiki style linking that's become popular with apps like Obsidian and Notion and Kraft.

01:07:59   And now it's supported in Apple Notes as well in a much, much simplified fashion that, however, at the very core still lets you do exactly the thing, which is link to other notes in the Notes app.

01:08:14   So by default, you do this by pressing on an external keyboard on a Mac or on an iPad, Command + K, or by finding the Add Link button in the...

01:08:27   So here's the thing. You guys know the copy and paste menu, right?

01:08:31   Yeah.

01:08:32   For the past few years, Apple, for the past few years, Apple officially, and by officially I mean Human Interface Guideline officially, referred to it as the Edit menu.

01:08:42   So the official name of the copy and paste menu is the Edit menu. And this Add Link button is in the Edit menu.

01:08:50   However, there's a little asterisk here. I was talking about this with OTJ. The iOS 17 product page refers to the Edit menu as a callout menu.

01:09:02   So because I'm the type of person who obsesses over these things, Apple, if you can let me know whether the proper terminology is Edit menu or callout menu, that would be appreciated.

01:09:13   Anyway, parentheses closed.

01:09:16   HicJack. We'll call that a HicJack.

01:09:18   HicJack.

01:09:19   HicJack. Let me know, please. You got my email.

01:09:22   So you will find Command + K on an iPad or a Mac or this Add Link option in the Edit menu.

01:09:29   And that brings up a window that lets you either paste a URL to a web page, so any HTTPS URL.

01:09:40   You now have a proper way to create hyperlinks, essentially, in Apple Notes, which is nice. Or you can search for an existing note and the link becomes an internal wiki-style link to another note inside the Notes app.

01:10:00   And once you enter that, you get a little yellow link and you tap it and you open a note. You follow a link and you go to another note inside the Notes app.

01:10:11   There's also, and I found out about this thanks to MacRumors, a really handy shortcut, which is two brackets, like two forward-facing brackets.

01:10:24   Greater than symbols.

01:10:25   Two greater than signs, yeah. You type those and it brings up a sort of like a little shortcut that opens a popup with a list of recently modified notes.

01:10:38   So if you're in a hurry and you want to refer to another note that you recently modified, you can type two greater than symbols and you will get this window.

01:10:52   Works on the iPhone, works on the iPad.

01:10:54   I cannot believe that Apple has done this, but also I think it's the right thing to do, to modernize Apple Notes by paying attention to where the market is going.

01:11:05   And sure, this version of internal linking doesn't have all the bells and whistles that you may be used to seeing in Kraft or Obsidian.

01:11:14   There's no back linking, right? So back linking is the ability to see in the note that you linked which other notes refer to it.

01:11:24   You know, Obsidian nerds care about that sort of stuff.

01:11:29   There's no sort of mind map, like network, graph, whatever it's called, of all the notes that link to each other, but that doesn't matter.

01:11:40   This is the essence of the feature and Notes now supports it.

01:11:45   So I think this is going to be great, whether you want to create a table of contents or documentation for your team.

01:11:53   You know, you want to have a start page in a shared folder and the start page of something takes your team members or your family to different notes.

01:12:03   I think this is lovely and I'm going to use it a lot.

01:12:07   My first one is one of the most dad-oriented features, but exciting. It's called Check In.

01:12:14   So this is where a friend or family member can be alerted when you reach your destination.

01:12:21   So say that you've got a kid who is on the way to a friend's house and it's late night, you want to make sure they get there safely.

01:12:27   You can set this up instead of having to remind them, hey, text me when you get there or looking at Find My or something.

01:12:33   If you stop making progress, it checks in with you and if you don't respond, it shares information with the friend or family that you've set it up with.

01:12:42   It's set up ad hoc. It's not something that's like on all the time.

01:12:46   You say, yes, I want to check in for this specific thing.

01:12:48   When that information is shared, its location, battery level and cell service of the iPhone.

01:12:53   And of course, all of that is end to end encrypted.

01:12:56   This is kind of a clever feature in the sense that it doesn't really add much new.

01:13:01   Like you could do this with Find My to a degree and Find My shows battery level on devices, but it's a bit more polished now.

01:13:11   And as someone who's got almost now two teenagers, something I'm looking forward to being available.

01:13:19   You know, not all the time, but in those moments where, like, hey, we're, you know, something unusual is going on or you're kind of out and maybe it's a bit unusual.

01:13:30   I think it's going to be good. And I think Apple has a...

01:13:33   It enables some features that Find My would have, but without needing to make a kid do Find My view all the time, which might be complicated. Right?

01:13:40   Right. I mean, it does. I mean, I'm putting in the context of parenting, but like, you could do this with like us flying home from WBC because I think most people know by now you care for everyone when we travel.

01:13:52   And so it is that the ad hoc nature of it is nice.

01:13:56   I think it'll be primarily used in the context of family, but the nature of it kind of is it's uncoupled from iCloud family sharing and those other services.

01:14:07   I think in the keynote they were talking about it as friends.

01:14:10   Yeah. Right. So like, this is the thing that I know a lot of people do who feel otherwise unsafe in an area on their own.

01:14:17   Right. Like if you're going home from a night out or something, it's a way to, you know, like I know that friends like people say like drop a pin.

01:14:25   So you can like drop a pin in like an app like WhatsApp and you can watch the progress.

01:14:29   This is like just a very nice way of doing this. Adding in stuff like battery level and cell service, which answer questions for you.

01:14:37   Oh, this person's battery is fine, but they don't have cell service where they are. It will pick them up again in a minute, I'm sure.

01:14:42   Right. So I think it's very clever, very well made. Stephen, happy Father's Day.

01:14:46   Thank you.

01:14:47   Oh, is it today?

01:14:48   It's Sunday.

01:14:49   No, Sunday.

01:14:50   Oh, OK.

01:14:51   Which set is the dad feature? So I just figured, you know, someone's got to say it.

01:14:55   All right. I'm up next. This is a quick one, but I'm really happy to see this. Couple handy new features in the podcast app.

01:15:05   So the now playing screen has been redesigned. It now has this sort of like music inspired full screen approach.

01:15:15   And I think there are some new artwork features for podcasters to like, I think you can probably optimize your show artwork for this full screen experience.

01:15:25   But yeah, it looks very similar to the to the music app otherwise.

01:15:29   And more importantly for me, because I was literally complaining about this only a few weeks ago and we talked about it on the show.

01:15:37   There's a proper cue. At long last, there's a proper cueing system that is no longer weird in the podcast app.

01:15:47   So in the now playing screen, you will find in the bottom right corner, this new list icon.

01:15:52   You press it and it takes you to the cue page where if you've cued any episodes, you will find, well, a cue that you can rearrange or you can tap on an episode to play it.

01:16:06   Or you can long press it to get a bunch of actions. But even more nicely in the same screen, you will find a chapter menu for episodes that have chapters such as this one.

01:16:19   It's collapsed by default and it tells you the current title of the chapter you're listening to.

01:16:26   But if you press it, you get a full menu with all the chapters you can open in the episode you're listening to.

01:16:33   And generally speaking, the whole up next, play next thing has been, I was very confused by that.

01:16:45   And that was clarified with this update.

01:16:48   Up next is sort of like the up next that you get on tvOS where it's a mix of episodes from shows that you recently followed and new episodes from shows that you were already following.

01:17:02   As well as episodes that you started playing and that you may want to resume.

01:17:07   But then there's a proper cue also that is no longer called play next. I was very confused by that, if you recall.

01:17:15   And so now I find it all very simple.

01:17:18   Up next is like a showcase of things I may want to listen to, but everything that I want to listen to in specific order goes into my cue.

01:17:28   See, it's not that difficult.

01:17:30   Playing next is the term, that little thing, and it includes both a cue and continue playing.

01:17:37   So it's still not like super clear, but the word cue, it's just like, and then there's a cue that is good to have.

01:17:43   The button says add to cue and it's got an icon that shows an item going to the bottom of a cue.

01:17:51   And then you open the now playing screen and it says cue. Like the terminology really helps.

01:17:57   It's weird there's so much feature work about Eddie in this app. You know, a lot of cue work.

01:18:04   Can you please talk about your item?

01:18:08   Just real quick, last thing, they've added something I didn't know that they had because they supported something else.

01:18:13   There is now episode artwork. And I was like, no, but it does this. No, it does.

01:18:19   And it has done chapter artwork for a long time.

01:18:23   But if you set specific artwork for an episode, it doesn't work.

01:18:27   Like the Ricky's.

01:18:28   Yeah, like the Ricky's. We just did it with Cortex, that's how I checked it.

01:18:31   I was like, but we add the artwork. And it's like, no, if you do it as a chapter, it works.

01:18:34   You do it as an episode, it doesn't work. So I'm pleased they're adding that.

01:18:36   Me too. I was excited about that.

01:18:39   Yeah.

01:18:40   My next one is Dock Kit.

01:18:43   This is bananas. So this is an API to integrate camera apps on iOS 17 with motorized iPhone stands.

01:18:57   I don't know. I don't know why this is a thing this year.

01:19:03   You don't know why?

01:19:05   I mean, all for the continuity camera.

01:19:12   Right. Well, yeah, I just figure this is all part of like building out more functionality for some eventual home.

01:19:19   Yeah. Also that it's like standby on iOS 17, which is totally like the interface of the future home display.

01:19:26   Yeah. And FaceTime on Apple TV. Like it all just feels like this all to me feels like it moves towards the same result.

01:19:32   So this will follow a person or object moving 360 degrees around uses Apple's vision frameworks to detect these things.

01:19:43   And then the stand and the phone communicate and the stand moves the phone where it wants to go.

01:19:50   Like the TV OS VPN quote. This is kind of funny.

01:19:55   Apple points out the new docket API has many uses beyond video capture, including fitness, enterprise, education and health care.

01:20:03   But isn't it just video capture in those fields like this is something else to like standby.

01:20:10   It's like, well, why not the iPad? Well, the iPad doesn't have MagSafe, but pretty cool.

01:20:16   Not something I expected. And I think the first person or the first company to make a really cool motorized iPhone dock.

01:20:23   Send it to us. We'll review it on the show because this is wild.

01:20:27   Maybe you could attach it like a remote control car. It's like you build your own Amazon Astro, but with your your iPhone is the brain.

01:20:35   That's a pretty good idea. Someone do it. Make it happen. This is interesting.

01:20:39   And I think this will also be super cool with the continuity camera thing, right. And Apple TV. Yeah. Yeah.

01:20:44   Yeah. It's it's like a hardware version of center stage. But I'm sure it will make center stage even better.

01:20:49   Right. Like if you pair these two things together. Oh my gosh. The phone is moving and the picture is moving.

01:20:55   It's like what if what do they get in a contention? You know, it's like you're you're on a boat.

01:20:59   It'd be bad news. They're just fighting against each other. You vibrate faster and faster and the phone flies off the stand.

01:21:05   I wanted to just mention shift clicking and stage manager. So this is an iPad OS currently.

01:21:10   And I'm really hoping that it comes to Sonoma, too. They're like, if you're in a stage anywhere that you click on an app icon and press shift from

01:21:18   from a stage, from the dock, from spotlight, it will open in the stage that you're currently in.

01:21:24   It has been confirmed to me that this is not in Sonoma. And I really hope that that is just like they just haven't gotten to it yet.

01:21:33   I will give it like a like a maybe another bear or so and I will file a feedback on it.

01:21:40   Now's the time. Now's the time to get your feedbacks in. Well, Mac OS takes a long time. That's true.

01:21:45   You know, Mac OS we got until like November. I filed one on the Sonoma version of reminders already because I just apparently even they don't use reminders.

01:21:54   I send feedback about it. What was it? It has remained an issue.

01:21:59   It's been that way forever that in the inspection pane on a task on the Mac, you can't change the list the task is on.

01:22:06   You can do it on iOS, but not the Mac. Oh, my God. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you for filing that.

01:22:13   So I'll put that feedback number in the show notes. If you work on reminders out there, you know someone who does help me out.

01:22:20   My next one is turning off iCloud drive or really not ever turning it on. No longer disables iCloud app syncing.

01:22:28   So the way this works in iOS 16 and before any app that relied on iCloud to sync data between your devices, that wouldn't work if iCloud drive was off.

01:22:38   And you may be wondering, why would you have iCloud drive turned off? Well, the answer is on a lot of phones managed by corporations.

01:22:45   iCloud drive is off for other reasons. A while back, maybe like a year ago, Marco was talking about this with overcast that he had no idea people were in the state.

01:22:54   And he was looking to move to iCloud syncing for some things. And this was an issue he was hearing about.

01:23:00   Well, now you can have iCloud drive off on your on your iPhone or iPad.

01:23:06   And I assume the Mac too, and it will still be able to sync via cloud kit.

01:23:13   So it was never really clear to me why these things were tied together because iCloud syncing of Apple's own apps was unaffected, even if iCloud drive was off or like the user didn't have an iCloud drive folder.

01:23:29   But now they've separated those things. And I think that's going to make life a lot easier for people who carry a phone around that they don't manage themselves.

01:23:37   The whole map has become a snitch.

01:23:39   Okay. What is it about you and snitches lately?

01:23:42   They get stitches.

01:23:43   Snitches, man. They do.

01:23:45   Activity history and the whole map lets you see the last 30 days of activity for your devices and who interacted with them.

01:23:51   So now you can find out for sure who left the window open.

01:23:54   It's good.

01:23:55   You know what I mean? So it's in there.

01:23:57   I actually like this feature and I like the snitching potential unless it snitches on me where then we'll be reverting back to an iOS feature before we'll go back to 16.

01:24:07   Is this feature available right now? Oh, I guess I need to be running a home hub on 17, which I'm not.

01:24:14   I don't have the answer for that. Like there might be some kind of thing that has to happen first. You know what I mean?

01:24:19   Like you've got to upgrade your home architecture again, which I still have yet to do the home architecture upgrade.

01:24:25   But at some point I will do it.

01:24:27   Chance points out an important detail here in case the context gets lost.

01:24:32   You bullied a dog at WWDC.

01:24:37   No. What?

01:24:38   By calling the dog a snitch.

01:24:40   Let me say this again because you know you can't trust fair and covers.

01:24:43   You called the dog a snitch.

01:24:44   No, shush. We were in the line waiting to get in and there was a sniffer dog.

01:24:48   Very good dog.

01:24:49   And the sniffer dog looked like it was snitching on someone.

01:24:53   We worked out that this was clearly a test of the sniffer dog's capabilities of dissecting marijuana is my assumption.

01:24:59   There's no marijuana in California.

01:25:01   My point was sniffer dogs are snitches.

01:25:05   They're not. It's their job.

01:25:07   It's their job.

01:25:08   It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter if they are professional snitches.

01:25:12   It's still snitching.

01:25:13   Sounds like a guy who was trying to sneak pot into Apple Park.

01:25:16   Yeah, I know, right?

01:25:17   I'm not going to talk about what the dog found or didn't find, but that dog is a snitch.

01:25:23   Still snitches. Doesn't matter if it's snitching for good. You can snitch for good.

01:25:26   That dog is an officer. You should show some respect.

01:25:29   Snitching as a service. An officer of the law?

01:25:32   Yes.

01:25:33   Alright, it is detective inspector snitch then. I don't know. But it's still a snitch.

01:25:38   Dog is a snitch.

01:25:39   I don't know.

01:25:40   Very lovely dog. Still a snitch.

01:25:42   I don't know what happened to you lately. You and your secret activities.

01:25:46   I got snitched on.

01:25:47   Yeah, I guess.

01:25:48   I'm not a dog. And now here I am.

01:25:50   Alright, so the last pick is autocorrect.

01:25:54   And I cannot believe I'm finally saying this, but oh my god, it's so well done.

01:26:00   Like, I almost cannot believe it.

01:26:02   Typing on an iPhone finally doesn't make me feel like I don't know what I'm doing with my fingers anymore.

01:26:10   It's excellent.

01:26:12   And this is not an exaggeration, it is very, very well done.

01:26:18   The way it actually predicts words and entire sentences that make sense as you're typing, it suggests those words.

01:26:29   And you see them sort of like in light grey as suggestions.

01:26:34   And if you press the space bar, you autocomplete the whole thing.

01:26:38   And again, it can be a word or it can be the rest of a sentence.

01:26:42   It's super well done.

01:26:44   I'm seeing way, way fewer mistakes.

01:26:49   You can still, you know, you still get the chance to revert to like, for example, let's say you type something and autocorrect kicks in and you're like, "No, I meant to type that."

01:27:01   You can tap on the highlighted word and you get a list of the options that you can revert back to.

01:27:08   It's really well done.

01:27:09   This is apparently based on the new Transformer model that Apple talked about at WWC.

01:27:15   And whatever they're doing, I think it's working because this is so different from the autocorrect that, as we've mentioned before on the show,

01:27:26   I am convinced it was getting worse over the years.

01:27:30   And now it's much better.

01:27:34   Now, will this also progressively get worse or will it progressively get better?

01:27:40   In theory, Transformer...

01:27:42   I think it will get better because it's learning on you.

01:27:45   Exactly.

01:27:46   So in theory, well...

01:27:49   I'm very bad.

01:27:51   Maybe my autocorrect will be terrible, but yours will be fine.

01:27:55   Don't learn from me.

01:27:57   So yes, honestly, I think this will be...

01:28:02   If this continues to be so high quality in the beta, this will be the feature that I will tell people why they should upgrade for in September.

01:28:10   You know why you should?

01:28:12   New autocorrect.

01:28:13   Because it's something that everybody does.

01:28:15   You know, it's like autocorrect.

01:28:18   It works.

01:28:19   I wonder if this will be enough to convince my wife to tell autocorrect because she doesn't.

01:28:26   She's never turned it on.

01:28:27   Really? How?

01:28:28   I don't know how she uses her phone.

01:28:30   I don't understand.

01:28:31   It doesn't make any sense to me.

01:28:32   She types without autocorrect.

01:28:34   She does a better job than me.

01:28:36   I don't understand how it happens.

01:28:37   Because she originally did it, I believe, because she would type in two languages.

01:28:42   Right, but it's been supported for a while.

01:28:44   I know it supports it now.

01:28:45   I don't know if it supports Romanian.

01:28:47   I actually don't know if it does.

01:28:49   But I said this and she's like, "But I'm used to it now, so why would I turn it on?"

01:28:53   Which, I mean, if you can type on an iPhone without needing autocorrect, and you could be successful in that,

01:29:00   then I guess you don't need autocorrect, right?

01:29:03   Like, you're proving it.

01:29:04   But yeah, it's wild to me.

01:29:06   Do you all leave autocorrect on on the Mac?

01:29:08   Yes.

01:29:09   See, I have it off on the Mac.

01:29:10   Is there a way to turn it off on the Mac?

01:29:13   Yeah, it's under the keyboard settings somewhere.

01:29:15   Yeah, good luck finding it.

01:29:16   Keyboard settings, huh?

01:29:19   System settings, man.

01:29:21   Interesting.

01:29:22   Where would one go for keyboard settings?

01:29:24   Yeah, no one knows.

01:29:25   System settings.

01:29:27   Keyboard.

01:29:28   I'm having the problem right now.

01:29:30   I'm looking at it, right?

01:29:31   I have it open.

01:29:33   One of my main issues with system settings now is I open it and I still can't work out where anything is.

01:29:38   I'm looking at the keyboard settings and it's laid out in a – I don't know.

01:29:42   Is it in here?

01:29:43   Maybe.

01:29:44   Dude, there's no setting for autocorrect.

01:29:46   Come on.

01:29:47   Yeah, so it's text input and then all input sources.

01:29:52   Seek – I mean, what edit?

01:29:55   Why call this edit?

01:29:56   Like, it says input sources.

01:29:58   I have to edit all of British English.

01:30:00   I have to edit the entire thing.

01:30:02   And there's three switches, correct spelling automatically, capitalize words automatically, add period with double space, which is a sin on the Mac.

01:30:10   Like, do not have that on.

01:30:12   Yeah, they're all on.

01:30:13   Oh, I leave them all on.

01:30:14   I also do the full stop with double space.

01:30:16   You know what's bad?

01:30:18   People who put two spaces after a period.

01:30:20   It's true.

01:30:21   Yeah, I don't get that.

01:30:22   Why do people do that?

01:30:23   Do you know who does that?

01:30:24   Gray does that.

01:30:25   No.

01:30:26   Yeah, Gray does that.

01:30:28   Why?

01:30:29   Is it like a teacher thing?

01:30:30   Maybe.

01:30:31   No.

01:30:32   It's not good.

01:30:33   He even does it in text messages.

01:30:35   Oh my God.

01:30:36   Yeah, I'm looking at him right now.

01:30:38   He does it.

01:30:39   Oh my God, he does it.

01:30:40   He does it.

01:30:41   Yeah, I don't understand it.

01:30:43   Gray, you broke my heart.

01:30:45   I'm snitching.

01:30:46   Just like the dog.

01:30:47   I'm just like the dog.

01:30:48   I've turned around, I've turned a corner.

01:30:50   I love the dog.

01:30:51   Federica, I do have one question for you in Autocorrect.

01:30:54   Does it work in multiple languages as good?

01:30:57   Like, is it this good in Italian and English?

01:31:00   Yeah, I've been chatting with Silvia and my mom and yeah, it's been working well in...

01:31:06   Italian is one of the...

01:31:07   Like, it's on the webpage.

01:31:08   I think it's one of the officially supported languages for the new Autocorrect.

01:31:12   And yes, it works as well in Italian and also in the switching between English and Italian,

01:31:19   like mid-sentence, which is my weird made-up language that I use with Silvia.

01:31:23   Yeah.

01:31:24   Do you have a name for that language?

01:31:25   Dicci.

01:31:26   Do you really, if you call it that?

01:31:28   No, no.

01:31:29   It's just my weird way of talking and writing, you know, with my family.

01:31:34   I don't know.

01:31:36   I honestly don't think I'm fluent in Italian anymore, but whatever.

01:31:41   Where is the languages page?

01:31:43   You said there's like a page that tells you the languages?

01:31:45   It must be a footnote somewhere.

01:31:47   Oh, here we go.

01:31:48   Romanians in it.

01:31:49   Arabic, Dutch, English, French, German, Hebrew, Korean, Italian, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Spanish and Thai.

01:31:55   English, French and Spanish require iPhone 12 or later?

01:31:58   What?

01:31:59   I bet the models are bigger.

01:32:01   Yeah, but that's like such a weird thing, right?

01:32:04   Like, oh, you want to speak in English?

01:32:06   You need an iPhone 13.

01:32:07   What?

01:32:08   What?

01:32:09   I probably need like whatever neural network update came with the 12.

01:32:13   But that is weird.

01:32:14   That's wild though.

01:32:15   It's weird.

01:32:16   So the new autocorrect, if you speak in English, will only work if you have an iPhone 12 or later?

01:32:21   Seems like it.

01:32:22   Get your mom a new phone.

01:32:23   Huh.

01:32:24   Is what we're saying.

01:32:25   Or, oh wait, it says English, but then it says, oh no, yeah, English, French.

01:32:30   That's very peculiar.

01:32:31   Hmm.

01:32:32   All right.

01:32:33   If you want to find the links to all the stuff we spoke about, head on over to the website.

01:32:37   That's relay.fm/connected/454.

01:32:41   Those links are also in your podcast player.

01:32:44   A couple of things you can do there, you can leave feedback or follow up.

01:32:47   There's a submit feedback button.

01:32:49   It goes to a little form on our website.

01:32:51   You can make it anonymous.

01:32:52   If you know about why Apple Park smells the way it does, and you would get fired for telling us,

01:32:56   you just click the anonymous button and we won't tell anybody who you are.

01:32:59   We're no snitches is what we're saying.

01:33:01   Yeah.

01:33:02   We're not snitches.

01:33:03   We're not snitches.

01:33:04   We're not like those dogs.

01:33:05   We're not sniffer dogs around here.

01:33:07   We do want to know the smell, but we won't snitch.

01:33:10   Yeah.

01:33:11   You think the dog is confused by piped in smell?

01:33:13   It's like, where's it coming from?

01:33:15   Maybe.

01:33:16   The pot's from way over there, but I smell it here.

01:33:18   What happened?

01:33:19   What's happening?

01:33:20   Poor dog.

01:33:21   Poor dog.

01:33:22   You can also become a member and get Connected Pro, which is the longer ad-free version of the show

01:33:28   that we do each and every week.

01:33:30   If you want more of us the other six days of the week, you can find us online.

01:33:34   Mike is the cohost of a bunch of other shows here on Relay FM and the co-founder of Cortex brand.

01:33:41   You can find him on Mastodon.

01:33:43   He is imike@mike.social.

01:33:47   You can find Federico at maxstories.net and all of its associated properties.

01:33:52   He is on Mastodon as Vitici at maxstories.net.

01:33:57   You can find me on Mac Power Users every Sunday here on Relay FM and I write over at 512 pixels.

01:34:02   A big thank you in advance for checking out my Kickstarter.

01:34:05   It means a lot to me.

01:34:06   You can follow me on Mastodon as ismh@eworld.social.

01:34:10   I'd like to thank our sponsors this week for making the show possible, Squarespace, ZocDoc, and NetSuite.

01:34:15   Until next time guys, say goodbye.

01:34:18   Adios, El Chirio.