458: A High Speed Train Goes Past


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Realy FM, this is Connected, episode 458.

00:00:12   Today's show is brought to you by NetSuite, Squarespace and ZocDoc.

00:00:16   My name is Mike Hurley. I am joined by Federico Vatici. Ciao Federico.

00:00:20   Ciao Mike. How are you?

00:00:22   I'm good. I was trying to emulate your energy when you introduced the show.

00:00:27   So that's why I liked it. Because it was like, yes.

00:00:29   I was aiming for how you're like, very like, hey, we're here, we're a podcast and there's nothing you can do about it.

00:00:35   That's kind of the energy.

00:00:36   It's like the beginning of the show, the beginning of the show should have the same feeling of you being like at the train station,

00:00:41   just sort of staring straight ahead and then a high speed train passes.

00:00:47   Okay, I didn't know what the word is.

00:00:49   Zoom. It's like from, you know. From Realy FM.

00:00:53   It's like it goes past you, but you get swept up and you're on the train.

00:00:57   You didn't even want to be on the train, but you're on it.

00:00:58   You sort of fly, you know. Yes.

00:01:01   We're also joined by Mr. Stephen Hackett. Hello, Stephen.

00:01:03   Conductor. Conductor Hackett.

00:01:05   Choo choo!

00:01:10   I feel I think the conductor has an announcement for the passengers.

00:01:14   I do.

00:01:16   Dear passengers, this is the final warning call for the 2024 Apple History Wall Calendar.

00:01:23   If you were looking for the Apple History Wall Calendar for 2024, please exit at the next stop.

00:01:30   Next stop, give me your money. Right?

00:01:34   Next stop, money back station.

00:01:36   I feel like I want to break out of the show for a second to just...

00:01:41   I think people need to understand that absolutely zero of that was planned and that the three of us are podcast geniuses.

00:01:49   None of this was planned.

00:01:50   Stephen, and I've got to seriously take my hat off to you there.

00:01:55   That was very clever. Bravo, Stephen.

00:01:58   I'm actually wondering, do you improvise train announcements much in your life?

00:02:04   Because that was almost too good to be improvised.

00:02:06   Have you ever been on a train?

00:02:08   That is too good to be improvised, honestly.

00:02:14   I've never been in like a real train, but I've been in...

00:02:17   I've used the tube a bunch and I've been in London.

00:02:21   Wait, why? You've never been in a real...

00:02:23   Oh, because you don't have trains in America.

00:02:25   Not really. Not in my part of America.

00:02:27   Wow.

00:02:28   Because it was very good, but there's no trains.

00:02:31   Well, there is a train, but it just gets in your way. That's what it does.

00:02:33   There is the train that's always in my way, if you follow me on Instagram.

00:02:36   I would very much like...

00:02:38   There's a train that runs...

00:02:39   It's like Chicago, Memphis, and then it goes to New Orleans.

00:02:42   And I would love to take it. It's overnight to New Orleans.

00:02:45   And I would love to do that sometime for like a weekend.

00:02:47   Just go to Mardi Gras.

00:02:49   Haven't made it happen. You want to go?

00:02:50   Yeah, you definitely wouldn't want to go to Mardi Gras.

00:02:52   No, it's not. It's not my scene.

00:02:54   You could take the midnight train and go anywhere.

00:02:59   You could take the midnight train to Georgia.

00:03:01   I didn't know there was a train station in Memphis, honestly.

00:03:03   Yeah, it's downtown. It's Amtrak.

00:03:05   There you go. You learn something new every day.

00:03:07   But anyway. Anyway.

00:03:09   Anyways.

00:03:11   The Kickstarter.

00:03:12   If you were listening to this live, you have about 22 hours left.

00:03:17   If you're listening to it after I publish it, you have until Friday, July 14th,

00:03:22   at 10.44am Eastern to back the Kickstarter.

00:03:26   And I would love it if you did. Go check it out. Time is...

00:03:29   You should go.

00:03:30   ...of the essence.

00:03:31   It really is.

00:03:31   If you don't get off at this stop, I can't tell you what happens to the train after that, you know?

00:03:36   Just...

00:03:36   Train derails.

00:03:37   ...into a pile of packing materials.

00:03:41   Everyone... Nobody makes it.

00:03:43   That's the end.

00:03:44   Oh, it's so sad. You must back.

00:03:45   If you don't back now, the train will derail.

00:03:48   If you want to save all the passengers, go to Kickstarter.

00:03:53   Please do. It's the first link in the show notes.

00:03:55   Thank you very much.

00:03:57   We have just a little... It's not really follow up. It's like follow forward.

00:04:02   It's about something we're going to talk about in the future.

00:04:05   Follow forward?

00:04:06   Follow forward.

00:04:06   Follow forward?

00:04:07   Follow forward.

00:04:08   Follow... Follow forward.

00:04:11   Keith Brony, the person who is now running Emojipedia,

00:04:17   he beat Jeremy in a sword fight and took over, I think is how that went.

00:04:21   Oh, new Jeremy. Sure.

00:04:23   New Jeremy. Federico, you can't look at this, but Keith has...

00:04:26   Oh, I guess it's too late. I clicked the link. Now my family's dead. My family's dead.

00:04:31   I clicked the link.

00:04:32   That train derailed. The emoji train derailed.

00:04:34   It literally says, "Don't look, T.G. Ride above the link."

00:04:37   I didn't click it. I didn't click it.

00:04:39   So this is a preview of what will be coming in new emoji over the next several months.

00:04:47   We will play the Jeremy's as we always do and as I always forget on the episode that coincides with

00:04:54   Apple's announcement of the emoji that they'll be adding in iOS 17.3 or .4 at some point.

00:05:02   So we're not going to play yet, but we always get questions.

00:05:05   And I just want to... Maybe, Mike, maybe you and I can do a

00:05:08   recreation of our conversation this morning in Slack.

00:05:13   Yes.

00:05:13   If you want to open that up.

00:05:14   So 9.52 a.m., I just put a link into this blog post on Emojipedia.

00:05:21   Oh, hello.

00:05:21   I never remember when we play the game.

00:05:24   When Apple announces, "I knew you were going to say this. You do it every time."

00:05:28   I like the fake laugh that it was good.

00:05:31   Ha, ha, ha.

00:05:33   Ha, ha, ha. And then I said, "Put it in the document or something.

00:05:36   When Apple has their images is when we do it."

00:05:39   Oh, man, it's literally in there.

00:05:40   LOL.

00:05:42   I kind of pay for an audiobook of you two reading your chats.

00:05:48   This is very captivating content.

00:05:52   This is how we communicate.

00:05:54   Every single time when this happens, both when Emojipedia show that when there's any

00:06:00   articles and then when Apple also shows, Steven always has to ask me, "When do we play the

00:06:05   game?" He can never remember.

00:06:06   So at some point he put it in the document and now he's forgot that he put it in the

00:06:09   document.

00:06:10   Federico, can you take your headphones off for like 10 seconds?

00:06:14   I think we should read the rest of this because I want to get to my joke, Mike.

00:06:17   But he can't hear it.

00:06:17   Okay, I'm actually, okay, all right, cool.

00:06:20   I took them off.

00:06:21   All right, go Mike.

00:06:22   Pretty small list this time.

00:06:23   Lime is the real winner.

00:06:25   I am very excited about that.

00:06:28   It is needed.

00:06:29   It was literally low hanging fruit.

00:06:32   And then I will now give the, this is what my emoji was.

00:06:36   Federico can come back.

00:06:40   Does he know this?

00:06:41   I don't know.

00:06:41   Maybe we text him.

00:06:43   Federico, come back.

00:06:45   Hey, come back.

00:06:46   Are you done?

00:06:48   Yes.

00:06:48   Yeah.

00:06:48   Okay.

00:06:49   Yeah, yeah.

00:06:50   In like October, you can go back and listen to that.

00:06:53   You just texted me come back.

00:06:55   Yeah.

00:06:55   Yeah.

00:06:56   Come back.

00:06:56   Wow.

00:06:58   I have some Shazam follow up.

00:07:01   Like the movie?

00:07:01   The movie.

00:07:03   Yeah.

00:07:03   Yeah.

00:07:03   Fury of the gods.

00:07:04   The hierarchy of power in the DC universe is about to change.

00:07:09   No Shazam, the app.

00:07:10   It can now recognize music from inside of other applications.

00:07:15   So open Shazam, hit the button, switch to the app that there was music in, Instagram, TikTok

00:07:21   or whatever you like.

00:07:21   What is that song on this Instagram reel?

00:07:24   Shazam continues to listen.

00:07:25   Then you go back to the application and it tells you what was playing.

00:07:29   Wait, wasn't this like Shazam and control center can do this already?

00:07:33   I mean, maybe.

00:07:35   Shazam and control center, like I think it was two years ago or last year.

00:07:38   So the Shazam thing in control center, it can listen to audio from apps.

00:07:45   Okay.

00:07:46   But now I guess the main Shazam.

00:07:48   This is in the main app.

00:07:50   Like I didn't remember that.

00:07:51   Okay.

00:07:52   So now the main app can do it.

00:07:52   This is an update to the app itself, so you can open the app, press the button, go to

00:07:56   another one, come back.

00:07:57   Oh, that's cool.

00:07:59   Because like maybe some people don't know about the control center integration.

00:08:03   So yeah, that makes sense.

00:08:04   Maybe Shazam forgot.

00:08:06   Or that, sure.

00:08:08   And they were like, oh, we have a good idea for a feature.

00:08:10   And they already built it, but they forgot.

00:08:12   I use it.

00:08:12   I only use it through control center.

00:08:14   I don't even think I have the app installed.

00:08:15   I use it with Siri.

00:08:17   Oh yeah.

00:08:18   I always forget you could do that.

00:08:19   Right.

00:08:20   Because you can ask like what's playing.

00:08:22   Or what's playing.

00:08:23   Or like, well, I said like, what's this song?

00:08:25   Cause what's playing would be weird.

00:08:26   I was like, what is this song?

00:08:27   And then it just listens.

00:08:28   Yeah.

00:08:28   I use the control center thing all the time because like, I always feel very, uh, subconscious

00:08:34   about sort of talking to Siri in English while I'm in public in Italy.

00:08:39   I whisper to Siri.

00:08:40   So you whispered to Siri.

00:08:41   You should try that.

00:08:42   Yeah.

00:08:43   I always whisper.

00:08:45   Yeah.

00:08:45   And you always whispered to Siri.

00:08:47   Into my phone.

00:08:48   I'm like, turn on the lights.

00:08:49   Why?

00:08:52   Cause that's just weird.

00:08:53   Like you're in the room on your own.

00:08:54   Someone else is in the house and you're like, what did you say?

00:08:58   I didn't say anything.

00:09:00   You know, I just, I just whispered to Siri.

00:09:04   We're going to talk about Siri in the next topic because they have some followup questions,

00:09:09   but they make more sense, I guess.

00:09:11   When we talk about iOS 17.

00:09:13   This episode of Connected is brought to you by NetSuite.

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00:11:01   There you can get the visibility and the control you need to weather any storm.

00:11:06   Our thanks to NetSuite for their support of the show and Relay FM.

00:11:10   It's public beta season.

00:11:11   The public betas are available.

00:11:13   We're on developer beta 3.

00:11:14   We're on developer beta 3 remastered, I think is probably what they call it now.

00:11:19   Yeah, 3HD.

00:11:20   We're at 3HD because there was a second release.

00:11:23   Yeah, you don't want to get the first.

00:11:25   You don't want to get beta 3 regular.

00:11:28   That's the...

00:11:29   Or maybe the original one is like the hipster beta now.

00:11:32   Nah, nah, nah.

00:11:34   So we're on developer beta 3.

00:11:36   And that includes the public betas for all of the platforms.

00:11:41   Mac OS, watchOS, iPad OS, iOS, MacRumors...

00:11:47   MacRumors.

00:11:48   Your Mac stories, Mac stories and Six Colors.

00:11:51   My website MacRumors.

00:11:53   MacRumors.

00:11:54   Federico Rosinho is here from MacRumors.

00:11:59   Mac stories and Six Colors both had big roundups of all of the features.

00:12:04   We have the pleasure of being joined by Federico who wrote about iOS and iPadOS.

00:12:08   Hello.

00:12:09   I would say I loved your article Federico.

00:12:11   The vibes are good and that makes me happy to know you're happy.

00:12:15   Thank you.

00:12:16   It's much better than last year.

00:12:19   The article made me feel like I can finally breathe again.

00:12:23   Obviously in terms of like the kind of content that I write in the summer,

00:12:28   I don't ever want to feel like last summer ever again.

00:12:33   That was not pleasant at all, especially when moving to a new place.

00:12:38   So yeah, yeah, I'm so happy that you liked it.

00:12:42   What do you want to talk about with iOS and iPadOS?

00:12:46   You all have the betas installed now, right?

00:12:49   Yes.

00:12:49   On your foot.

00:12:50   Okay.

00:12:50   So I didn't touch upon this in my story because I'm saving,

00:12:55   like it's impossible to talk about every single feature in a preview for the public beta.

00:13:00   So I said also you want to hold something for the review, like, you know, just like, yeah,

00:13:05   exactly, exactly.

00:13:07   So before we talk about the actual stuff that I wrote about, let me ask you,

00:13:11   have you played around at all with the new contacts,

00:13:15   contact posters, features, and the new airdrop stuff?

00:13:20   I've only had the contact poster thing crash when I tried to set it up.

00:13:24   So I haven't gotten very far with that.

00:13:26   Same, same here.

00:13:28   Yeah, I've set it up, but I'm not happy with mine.

00:13:31   I don't think it looks very good.

00:13:32   Like the image that I'm using now, which is one of the ones that Apple took of us at WWDC,

00:13:39   like it just is not a very good image for that.

00:13:42   So I need to play around with it.

00:13:43   I'm also a little bit confused as to how to like select what information I want to be

00:13:50   shared with people.

00:13:50   Like I'm a little bit puzzled by that.

00:13:52   Yeah, I set mine up, like I tried to set mine up and it crashed.

00:13:57   Then I did it again, but I just selected my Memoji and I don't think it's a particularly

00:14:01   effective contact poster.

00:14:03   So I got to redo it.

00:14:04   And the airdrop stuff, I really wanted to try, but it's impossible to do it if you don't

00:14:10   have somebody else on the iOS 17 beta.

00:14:13   So I'm guessing that up.

00:14:15   So it's either going to go that I'm going to get a second iPhone and put iOS 17 on it,

00:14:23   or I will sneak the iOS 17 public beta on Sylvia's phone.

00:14:27   Don't do that.

00:14:28   Wait, what about your special iPod?

00:14:31   iPhone.

00:14:32   Well, but I got to keep something on 16 for the comparisons.

00:14:36   Why?

00:14:36   For the comparisons.

00:14:37   What about having an iPad?

00:14:43   Can't you just do it to the iPad?

00:14:45   Yeah, I guess I'll do that.

00:14:48   You didn't think about that until I said it, did you?

00:14:49   I didn't think about that.

00:14:51   But will it work though?

00:14:53   But will it work?

00:14:53   With the U1 and all that kind of stuff?

00:14:56   Exactly.

00:14:56   I wanted the phone to phone, the bump thing.

00:14:59   So you need, instead of day phone, night phone, you need send phone, receive phone.

00:15:03   I need morning, afternoon, and night phones.

00:15:08   I need three of them.

00:15:09   It's the next step.

00:15:10   Music phone.

00:15:11   There's so many phones.

00:15:13   iPod phone.

00:15:13   It's the next logical step in the collection of iPhones is to break it up by morning, afternoon,

00:15:19   and evening like Apple does in reminders.

00:15:21   You got to have three of them.

00:15:23   And John, we have one true John real time feedback.

00:15:26   The airdrop thing does not work from iPad to iPhone.

00:15:31   Wait, is he just texting you and not us?

00:15:33   Yeah, John is upset with you both.

00:15:34   Oh no.

00:15:35   What did we do?

00:15:35   I don't know.

00:15:37   I just made it up.

00:15:37   Okay.

00:15:38   But it will be at some point.

00:15:40   And when it happens, I'll be correct.

00:15:42   We will upset him.

00:15:46   Well, I mean, everybody upsets somebody at some point, right?

00:15:49   Wow.

00:15:50   I feel like you're, of all of the three of us, of the three of us, you are the most likely

00:15:55   to upset John, I feel like.

00:15:57   He texted you, you know what you did.

00:15:59   Yeah.

00:15:59   Well, I think he's saying that to you personally.

00:16:01   No, no, no.

00:16:02   It's, you know what you did.

00:16:03   Anyway, anyway, so maybe I'll get a third iPhone.

00:16:07   Maybe not.

00:16:07   We'll see.

00:16:08   Of course.

00:16:11   We'll see.

00:16:15   But so a big chunk of my story was sort of dedicated to widgets and this idea of widgets

00:16:22   everywhere in iOS 17.

00:16:25   And not only widgets everywhere, but interactive widgets.

00:16:28   So we have widgets on the home screen, on the lock screen, on the watch, obviously,

00:16:33   and in standby.

00:16:35   And all of these type of widgets support interactions.

00:16:40   As I wrote in my story, I kind of feel like three years ago when iOS 14 came out, and

00:16:46   in the summer, I had so much fun sort of trying to understand all these different options

00:16:53   and combinations for widgets while also waiting for third-party developers to come out with

00:16:58   their widgets.

00:16:59   And now I feel like I've been waiting for this moment of widgets gaining some form of

00:17:05   interactivity.

00:17:06   And now they have that.

00:17:08   And even the few third-party examples that I have now, those have been so useful that

00:17:15   I cannot even begin to imagine when it's September and realistically, every single app that I

00:17:20   have on my phone is going to have some kind of interactive widget.

00:17:23   How am I going to decide how many home screens I want to have?

00:17:27   How many widgets I want to use?

00:17:29   And it's a great problem to have, right?

00:17:30   Because it means you have such a great feature that you really want to use it.

00:17:34   I feel like I'm going to have to redo all of it again because I've already just like

00:17:37   having used it for a couple of days, I have like a whole different screen now.

00:17:40   Yes.

00:17:42   So yeah, I'm in that.

00:17:43   Like I have so few apps that even have it, right?

00:17:46   So I feel you completely.

00:17:47   Yeah.

00:17:48   I feel like maybe I'm going to use stacks now, which is something that I think you have

00:17:54   to.

00:17:55   It's something that I never really did, but I guess I have to at this point, especially

00:17:59   because like, for example, small widgets now, the square ones on the little widget, the

00:18:06   little widget now supports multiple touch targets.

00:18:11   So like, for example, Apple did a small shortcuts folder, which that shows you two shortcuts

00:18:21   instead of just one.

00:18:22   And that's much better.

00:18:23   I mean, realistically, they could even show four.

00:18:26   I feel it because that's as small as the HomeKit one.

00:18:32   Yeah.

00:18:32   Like the HomeKit one, you could put four in one.

00:18:34   So why can't I put four widgets?

00:18:36   I think little widgets can do it.

00:18:39   You know, you can, you can, you can do it for shortcuts.

00:18:43   You can give it for shortcuts and it'd be like, sure, I'll do it.

00:18:45   Yeah.

00:18:46   But yeah, so the small widgets, I think they lend themselves really well to stacks, just

00:18:51   sort of flipping through.

00:18:52   Like, for example, the home widget that you mentioned, it's a small one and it's got four

00:18:56   accessories, which I've been using a lot.

00:18:58   And then there's standby.

00:19:02   And I kind of wanted to get a feel from you, like, now that you have the beta, have you

00:19:06   been using it much?

00:19:07   I've tried it out and set it up.

00:19:11   Like, I don't have any charging solutions, right?

00:19:14   So like, I just have to plug my phone in because I don't have any docks or whatever, right?

00:19:19   Ah, because you are, yeah, because you are, you have, you have the MagSafe conspiracy

00:19:24   theory going on.

00:19:25   I'm annoyed how much I like it because I now know it's going to cause me some problems.

00:19:29   Like, I need to buy some stands because this is a fantastic feature, like a truly excellent

00:19:36   feature.

00:19:37   Like, the only third party app that I have that supports it is Timery.

00:19:41   And just that alone is superb.

00:19:45   Like, superb as for standby.

00:19:48   I like it too.

00:19:50   I do have a upright version of Studio Neat's material dock at my desk.

00:19:56   And I've just started putting my phone in there in landscape.

00:20:00   And it's, it's kind of like off in the corner of my desk, but these widgets are huge, right?

00:20:06   It's kind of designed to like see from across the room.

00:20:08   So I have a clock and I have the weather and I love it.

00:20:12   Like, it's, I still want it on an iPad.

00:20:14   I still think this is really useful in other contexts other than just the phone.

00:20:18   But it's pretty good on the phone.

00:20:19   I'm, I am, I thought it would be a little gimmicky, but I'm sold.

00:20:24   Like, I'm here for it.

00:20:26   Yeah, I think for me personally, it makes a lot of sense as a desk companion, like having

00:20:33   Timery off on the side and you can sort of stop a timer there or just having a calendar

00:20:39   for reference.

00:20:40   I think it's really useful.

00:20:41   And I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you a fun, a fun story, which I was supposed

00:20:46   to save for, you know, private conversation time, but I guess whatever.

00:20:50   So standby has this feature called, in theory, MagSafe memory, where it should remember the

00:21:00   standby configuration for each charger that you have.

00:21:05   And this only works with MagSafe because MagSafe chargers have a unique ID, right, associated

00:21:11   with them.

00:21:12   They support some basic data transmission effectively, which is also why, for example,

00:21:17   when you attach a MagSafe case to your phone, you see the color of the case in the animation,

00:21:23   right, on your phone.

00:21:24   That's the sort of data that the iOS can take from a MagSafe certified accessory.

00:21:31   Qi accessories, like regular wireless chargers, do not have this kind of feature.

00:21:36   They do not have an ID that iOS can recognize.

00:21:40   With MagSafe and standby, this memory feature looks at the ID of a charger and, in theory,

00:21:47   should remember.

00:21:47   For example, I see that on the charger that you have in the kitchen, you want to have

00:21:53   a calendar and a music widget.

00:21:56   But I see that on the nightstand, you prefer to use the clock page of standby.

00:22:03   And in theory, as you place your phone on different chargers, the right page and the

00:22:11   right widget configuration for the first page, in case you use that, should come up automatically.

00:22:18   So standby should remember the page you're using, and if you're using the widget page,

00:22:26   which widgets you're using, sort of as default on the charger.

00:22:31   This feature hasn't been working for me at all in the public beta, and I'm guessing that

00:22:36   the problem is that I have those cubes, the anchor MagSafe cubes.

00:22:41   So these are certified, right?

00:22:43   They are MagSafe official, and it's not working at all, and so I've been trying to work it

00:22:50   out with Apple, "Hey, what's going on here?"

00:22:51   And I didn't know this, but in iOS 17, when you place your phone on a MagSafe charger,

00:22:58   and if you go into settings, general, about, after a few seconds, with the phone being

00:23:06   placed on the charger, you will get details about the charger from the settings app.

00:23:12   So let's see if it works now.

00:23:14   I'm going into, so I place my phone on the cube.

00:23:16   In theory, and this doesn't always work, which I guess is the problem, in theory, if I go

00:23:22   into settings, it should give me the, so settings, general, about, it should recognize the charger,

00:23:30   and of course it doesn't.

00:23:31   So see, this is the problem that I'm having now.

00:23:33   iOS 17 beta doesn't always recognize a MagSafe charger, so standby comes up, but it doesn't

00:23:39   remember any settings.

00:23:41   But when it, I guess at some point it'll start working, when it does, that should be pretty

00:23:45   cool, right?

00:23:46   That standby will remember sort of, "Hey, on this charger, I know that you like to use

00:23:50   such and such page, but on this other one..."

00:23:52   But it requires MagSafe certification.

00:23:55   It requires MagSafe certification, because when it works, when this page appears in settings,

00:24:01   it'll tell you the name of the, like the manufacturer of the charger, the ID, and the firmware version

00:24:08   of the charger.

00:24:09   So, but yeah, this is only for MagSafe certified accessories.

00:24:15   So if you have one of these chargers that doesn't charge at full speed, it's not going

00:24:19   to work.

00:24:20   And people get confused, like I asked about this on Threads, and I got exactly the kind

00:24:25   of replies I knew I was going to get, like I asked for a MagSafe official, so MagSafe

00:24:29   certified chargers, and people just respond with MagSafe compatible, which is a different

00:24:36   thing, right?

00:24:37   MagSafe compatible is not-

00:24:38   - MagSafe compatible is nothing.

00:24:40   It's just key charging of a magnet.

00:24:41   - MagSafe compatible is nothing, exactly.

00:24:44   It's like saying, "I am soccer compatible, but like I don't play soccer, but in theory,

00:24:48   I could."

00:24:49   No.

00:24:49   - In theory, you have all the parts.

00:24:50   - In theory, I have all the, yes, I have all the body parts necessary for being soccer

00:24:55   compatible, but I'm not soccer certified, you know?

00:24:58   And that's the difference.

00:24:59   - Who certifies you?

00:24:59   Like FIFA?

00:25:00   Like who does that?

00:25:01   - FIFA, sure, yes.

00:25:02   - FIFA.

00:25:03   - Referee, yes.

00:25:04   - Referee, historically.

00:25:05   Interesting.

00:25:06   - Anyway, so in theory, when that starts working, should be pretty cool, and it's also another

00:25:13   reason why I am convinced that I want MagSafe on the iPad now.

00:25:19   They should just do it.

00:25:19   I've seen the light.

00:25:21   They should do it.

00:25:22   - A couple of quick things before we move on.

00:25:25   One, when they made MagSafe and like they decided that each one would have its own ID,

00:25:30   like what a good move if this feature wasn't on the map already.

00:25:34   Maybe it was, but that's very clever.

00:25:36   More importantly though, I have discovered, and maybe this was talked about, I missed

00:25:41   it, but it's news to me.

00:25:43   When the iPhone is in landscape and it's in this standby mode, you have to authenticate

00:25:51   with Face ID to change the widgets, and Face ID works horizontally on the phone now.

00:25:55   I don't know when that has it.

00:25:56   - Oh, it has for a while.

00:25:58   - They added it last year or two years ago.

00:26:01   I have this problem where I cannot differentiate between 2021 and 2022.

00:26:06   - No one can.

00:26:07   - I would say it doesn't work very well.

00:26:09   Like it's not as reliable.

00:26:11   Like I found that, right?

00:26:12   Like the landscape one misses me more than the portrait one.

00:26:15   - It's worse than the portrait.

00:26:17   And also it's kind of weird.

00:26:18   I don't know.

00:26:19   How do you guys feel about when editing standby requires being in standby mode?

00:26:28   - That's a little annoying because I want my phone in my hand, not on the dock.

00:26:32   - Yes.

00:26:33   - Yeah.

00:26:33   - And when you try to edit it and Face ID comes up, very often my thumb is covering

00:26:40   the camera.

00:26:40   - Yes.

00:26:41   - And it fails.

00:26:42   - Yeah.

00:26:43   - And so, yeah, that fails.

00:26:46   Before we move on to the next section of the betas, just one thing I want to say,

00:26:51   because Mike said sort of the vibes are good in my story, just how happy I am with iPadOS

00:26:58   this year, even though it doesn't do all the things I wanted, right?

00:27:02   iPadOS 17, for example, does not have anything for audio, for recording podcasts and all

00:27:11   of that.

00:27:12   But just the fact that they listen to feedback for Stage Manager, for keyboard shortcuts,

00:27:18   for like some very fundamental problems of Stage Manager, that makes me so happy.

00:27:24   And just working with it, again, even without the podcasting related features and even without

00:27:32   clamshell mode, which I do believe will happen before any sort of audio interface.

00:27:40   But it still feels so much nicer.

00:27:45   And I kind of feel like if only they listened last year, right?

00:27:49   Could have saved me all the trouble.

00:27:50   But I guess sometimes you got to go through the process, right?

00:27:55   To ship something that faces a lot of criticism and you got to listen and go back and fix

00:28:02   a few things and that, maybe that's part of the process and every once in a while that

00:28:06   needs to happen.

00:28:07   And it happened this time.

00:28:09   But now in 17, I'm very happy.

00:28:12   And we should say it came up in the Discord that if you're running a phone without an

00:28:18   always on display, you have to tap the display to see the clock and widgets and stuff.

00:28:25   Honestly, I'm surprised that it's on them.

00:28:27   In my mind, I just figured it was an always on display phone feature only.

00:28:32   I'm glad they brought it backwards.

00:28:36   I could have seen a word where they didn't pretty easily.

00:28:39   The very last thing, columns in reminders and internal links in notes.

00:28:47   And sections in reminders lists, which is something that THINGS has and Todoist has

00:28:54   now, I think.

00:28:55   But I think it's really useful.

00:28:56   Like if you have a really big project, you could have instead of a list for like each

00:29:01   section of the project, you can have just little dividers and reminders.

00:29:05   And those get translated into columns in that new Kanban view.

00:29:12   Very cool stuff in both of those apps.

00:29:14   My pitch for Apple is to take the people who work on reminders, notes, and free form, put

00:29:24   them together in a room, and tell them "fix mail."

00:29:30   Those people take those people 100, 200, I don't know how many they are, but they obviously

00:29:36   do excellent work.

00:29:37   They do.

00:29:37   So you take them all together, you put them in a room of the ring, or like you give them

00:29:43   the fitness center or whatever, and you have a year to reimagine the mail app.

00:29:49   Honestly, I think it's a pretty good strategy.

00:29:51   They should do it.

00:29:52   Yeah, those teams, and I think those teams have a lot of overlap within Apple, but that's

00:29:59   really some of the most exciting work happening on Apple software anywhere.

00:30:04   We've talked a lot about this on Mac Power Users over the last year, that Apple's really

00:30:08   taken their productivity suite very seriously over the last couple of years.

00:30:13   And really, if you roll back the clock, Notes has been taken seriously since like, was it

00:30:17   iOS 9 and LCAP where it finally got its own sync engine and started getting good?

00:30:23   These apps make noticeable improvements every couple of years, and it makes me sad for the

00:30:30   other apps that don't.

00:30:31   Mostly mail, because like you said, it's right there.

00:30:34   It's in the same sort of vibe of productivity, and it doesn't get the love the others do.

00:30:40   It's a little bit sad.

00:30:41   One thing on the iPad I just want to touch on, you talked about the changes to Stage

00:30:48   Manager.

00:30:49   Could you be a little specific about what those changes are and what they mean to you?

00:30:54   So the core changes to how Windows work, if you're calling iPadOS 16, Stage Manager

00:31:04   was very opinionated about the sizing of Windows and the placement of Windows.

00:31:11   And both of those things have changed in 17, meaning the way Windows are resized in

00:31:19   Stage Manager for iPad is still similar to last year, in that you're effectively switching

00:31:25   between predetermined size classes for apps.

00:31:28   But it almost feels like you have more options, like more steps in between for resizing a

00:31:34   window now than you had last year.

00:31:36   So you have more flexible sizing options in 17 compared to 16.

00:31:44   But more importantly, I think, you have a lot more freedom when it comes to placing a window

00:31:52   on screen and the window staying there where you want it.

00:31:56   Last year, you would pick up a window, drag it somewhere, let go, and it would move from

00:32:02   underneath your cursor.

00:32:03   The system would say, yeah, I see that you placed it here, but I'm just going to move

00:32:09   it there, because I think that's the sort of optimal placement for you.

00:32:13   And that drove me crazy last year.

00:32:16   And I know that it's one of the most common criticisms from people who try to use Stage

00:32:22   Manager coming from a desktop computing environment.

00:32:25   That's changed in 17.

00:32:29   Now, when you pick up a window and you drag it somewhere, 90% of the time it stays there.

00:32:36   And I'm excluding that 10% because the system, Stage Manager, still tries to very subtly

00:32:44   optimize the workspace for you.

00:32:47   And I think this year they have reached a much better balance for this idea.

00:32:53   The idea being that on the iPad, Apple tries really hard to not hide windows that are behind

00:33:02   other windows.

00:33:03   Right?

00:33:04   This is the problem of the traditional multi-windowing environment of macOS.

00:33:09   You open a bunch of windows, and it's easy to lose track of them, because something else

00:33:14   is covering them.

00:33:16   With Stage Manager last year, Apple said, we're going to limit the workspace to four

00:33:21   windows at once, and Stage Manager will always try to make all windows visible at once for

00:33:30   you so you don't lose track of them.

00:33:32   But in doing that, they went a little too far, and they overcompensated a little for

00:33:37   this idea.

00:33:39   And the result was, Stage Manager was always moving windows for you.

00:33:42   This year, I don't know what they did, I don't know what kind of discussions they had

00:33:48   internally, but now, generally, when you pick up a window and you place it somewhere, it

00:33:54   stays there.

00:33:55   And you can do layouts now that were not allowed last year.

00:33:59   So for example, you make a window really small, and you want to drag it all the way to the

00:34:04   left of the screen, but then you want to pick up another window, make it slightly bigger,

00:34:08   and place it on the very far right side of the display.

00:34:13   Now you can do it.

00:34:15   And it sounds obvious, right?

00:34:16   It sounds obvious that you should be able to do this.

00:34:17   Take a small window, place it on the left, take a bigger window, place it on the right,

00:34:22   leave a gap in the middle.

00:34:23   It sounds obvious enough, and it was not possible last year.

00:34:27   If you tried to do this last year, this very simple layout, Stage Manager would take both

00:34:32   windows and center them in the middle of the screen.

00:34:35   It doesn't do it anymore.

00:34:38   And this is especially effective on an external display, where you have a much bigger canvas,

00:34:44   and you're free to say, "Okay, I'm going to take a music window, make it a small rectangular

00:34:48   shaped window, place it on the top left, take my Mastodon client or whatever, make it a

00:34:55   square in the bottom right corner."

00:34:57   And now you can do it.

00:34:59   Then there's keyboard shortcuts.

00:35:01   Notably, you can now shift-click basically anywhere.

00:35:07   You can shift-click an icon in the dock to add the selected app to the current workspace.

00:35:15   You can shift-click in the strip on the left side for recent apps.

00:35:22   And you can shift-click Spotlight App Results.

00:35:25   So there's a much better keyboard-driven way to add a window to the current workspace without

00:35:34   having to use drag and drop.

00:35:36   And that's really the core of the changes in Stage Manager.

00:35:40   And they sound like small things, but in aggregate, and when you're actually trying to get work

00:35:45   done, they make a big difference.

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00:37:39   So there was also WatchOS and macOS.

00:37:44   I was reading through the articles that Alex and John put together.

00:37:48   There were a couple of things I wanted to point out that I just thought were interesting

00:37:52   and helped clarify some things.

00:37:54   So I knew that the buttons and what the buttons did on the watch had changed a bit,

00:37:59   and Alex kind of helped explain this to me in a way that made sense.

00:38:02   So to get the dock, which is like in the current version of WatchOS,

00:38:06   you press the side button and you can see, you can configure it to show you apps,

00:38:11   and they can either be recent ones or apps that you've chosen.

00:38:14   I use this quite a lot to switch between just like the three or four apps that I use on my Apple Watch.

00:38:20   And I heard that they were getting rid of this because now the side button,

00:38:24   you press it and it brings up Control Center.

00:38:26   I'm not thrilled about that personally.

00:38:30   It's like a makes sense to me.

00:38:32   Like the idea of pressing a physical button to get to Control Center is like kind of weird to me.

00:38:39   But you press the button and you get to Control Center,

00:38:43   or now you can get to that dock again, but you double click the crown, which is fine.

00:38:48   Because actually there's something about that which is quite logical to me

00:38:51   because it feels like a kind of multitasking thing.

00:38:54   Right.

00:38:55   And that double clicking the home button.

00:38:57   Yeah.

00:38:58   There's something about that to me, which I don't know, that feels like it's a way to get to apps.

00:39:03   Like I can't really explain why I feel that way, but like, yeah, okay, I see that.

00:39:06   Because it's like I press that button to get to apps.

00:39:10   So if I press it twice, I get to my open apps.

00:39:13   Do you know what I mean?

00:39:14   Like there's something about that logically that makes sense.

00:39:16   Because it's like there's one button to get like to navigate between apps and the watch face.

00:39:23   And it's the crown.

00:39:24   But now, like the one of the reasons they've done all of this is because of the widgets thing,

00:39:28   which is now both swiping and moving the crown to get to the widgets.

00:39:35   For me, I feel like they should have just left the swipe where it was.

00:39:38   Like and the swipe brought up control center and you just use the crown for widgets.

00:39:43   Like I'm not, I don't really feel like it needs two ways to get to the same like piece of UI.

00:39:50   But clearly they want people to discover this.

00:39:53   So they're like just throwing as many things into it as possible.

00:39:56   I want to read a quote from Alex about the widget smart stack.

00:40:01   So this is kind of like when you scroll up and the widgets are there.

00:40:05   In a word, excellent.

00:40:06   I love the smart stack and I think this new feature will be opening up a flood of increased

00:40:10   usage of Apple watch apps throughout the system.

00:40:12   Because realistically what's going on here is it's like the Siri watch face on steroids, right?

00:40:19   Like realistically you can say I want to use these widgets, but Apple's going to serve them

00:40:26   to you in the way that it thinks you want, except for the ones that you pin, which you also pin

00:40:30   some to the top.

00:40:31   I'm excited to try this out.

00:40:33   I'm hoping that it is as useful as I want it to be.

00:40:36   But Alex seems pretty jazzed on it.

00:40:37   Yeah, I haven't spent a lot of time sort of playing around with watchOS channels because

00:40:43   as Alex mentioned in the story, like it really comes down to the apps that we use offering

00:40:49   widgets.

00:40:50   And like right now I have the music widget, the reminders one, and you know, very basic

00:40:56   sort of built in stuff.

00:40:57   I think that's going to change once we have more third party options.

00:41:01   For example, the weather widgets, right?

00:41:03   I don't even, I'm not even sure there's any shortcuts widgets at the moment in watchOS

00:41:10   10.

00:41:10   But I think I'm going to use it.

00:41:13   I just, it's more of a problem of remembering that now I'm supposed to do that, that I can

00:41:19   scroll up to see widgets.

00:41:21   And yeah, the reminders one has been really useful.

00:41:25   Just being able to tap on the today widget and sort of immediately see a list of

00:41:31   my tasks due today.

00:41:33   But for example, I haven't tried the time area once yet.

00:41:37   I know that the latest beta of time area added widgets and I don't have any caret widgets.

00:41:43   I'm sort of just waiting for more third party options before I really commit, I guess.

00:41:48   Steven, how are you feeling about this stuff with watchOS?

00:41:51   I want to install it so bad.

00:41:53   I haven't yet.

00:41:56   Why haven't you, if you want to do it so bad?

00:41:58   I don't know.

00:41:59   I just haven't.

00:42:00   I haven't.

00:42:01   I mean, your watch has such a big battery life.

00:42:03   Like what, you know what I mean?

00:42:04   Like the beta is not going to hurt.

00:42:06   Yeah, that's true.

00:42:07   So I don't know.

00:42:08   Maybe I, maybe I jump on board, but take one for the team.

00:42:12   I haven't tried it.

00:42:13   Right.

00:42:13   But I never loved the rotate the crown and things happen on the watch face.

00:42:20   And I just, I wonder if that's the right move.

00:42:23   Cause it used to be, what was that feature used to be called?

00:42:25   You could like roll back a clock face, time travel, go through time, time travel, time

00:42:29   travel, time travel, and I don't know.

00:42:32   So that was kind of a weird interaction and easily done accidentally.

00:42:35   Also swipe though.

00:42:37   Like you can just swipe, like that's your album.

00:42:40   Yeah.

00:42:40   But I don't want, what I'm trying to get to is I think I accidentally did time travel

00:42:45   a lot and I don't, I don't want to accidentally go into widgets either.

00:42:49   So I don't know.

00:42:51   We'll see.

00:42:52   Maybe I'll install it and report back next week.

00:42:54   We'll see.

00:42:54   Yeah.

00:42:55   I'm super intrigued.

00:42:56   Like, as I said at the time, like I'm happy they're doing stuff.

00:42:58   This wasn't exactly what I was hoping and looking for.

00:43:02   Like I was actually kind of hoping for something a bit more fundamental, but maybe the new

00:43:07   design, like that new kind of like watch OS design of apps might make the whole operating

00:43:12   system just feel different anyway.

00:43:14   Yeah.

00:43:14   Some of the examples that Alex shows, like they do look really different and that is

00:43:18   kind of cool, but I'm holding out.

00:43:22   I'm like, I'm reserving judgment.

00:43:24   I do think I'm going to dig it, but it is going to take some time to get used to.

00:43:28   The way that this is working and, and I'm, I'm not a hundred percent sold that they've

00:43:34   set these buttons up in a way that I'm going to find pleasing.

00:43:36   I also wanted to touch on a couple of macOS features from John's article.

00:43:40   John says no single Sonoma feature has had an immediate effect on how I use my Mac as

00:43:47   interactive desktop widgets.

00:43:48   I want to try this so bad.

00:43:50   I want to try this so bad.

00:43:51   Me too.

00:43:52   Especially while with stage manager, because clicking anywhere on your desktop hides all

00:43:56   of your open windows and activates your widgets in full color.

00:43:59   As a stage manager user, I'm very excited about this and I got to hand it to Apple again,

00:44:06   like looking at John's screenshots, absolute genius move to do the iPhone widgets thing

00:44:11   because they are just like so many Mac apps are just not going to do this.

00:44:18   Like they're just not going to do it, but their iPhone counterparts do have them.

00:44:22   And so this is just like a genius way.

00:44:25   Look at how many widgets John has compared to how many like interactive widgets, like

00:44:30   new widget types I've got like on my iPhone, but like this new feature of macOS, like widgets

00:44:35   on the desktop, you can just have all of them because you can just, it works right currently.

00:44:39   So yeah, I think this is super, super cool.

00:44:42   I'm very excited about this.

00:44:43   These screenshots all have giant John energy, like so many widgets, so many things in the

00:44:49   docs, so many things happening.

00:44:51   And I don't even, you know, like I know some reviewers will like, they like, they will

00:44:56   like pre-fill stuff.

00:44:57   So like you can show all the features.

00:44:59   Like I feel like in Jason's, he has like a similar screenshot where it's just like stuff

00:45:03   all over the place to kind of show all the things that can happen.

00:45:05   Yeah.

00:45:06   But I just feel like that's not faked for John's.

00:45:09   Like that's just what John's preferred desktop is.

00:45:12   John has actually been working on Sonoma since the very first beta at WWDC.

00:45:17   Yeah.

00:45:18   Like he has two Macs, one for production for doing like audio hijack and podcast stuff.

00:45:22   But otherwise he's doing too.

00:45:24   He works on Sonoma like all day and it's his real setup.

00:45:30   And it makes me really jealous because I really want to have those widgets there.

00:45:34   I forgot to mention one thing about watchOS and I want to mention it in case I forget.

00:45:39   So, you know, they're getting rid of the dock feature on the watch that lets you switch

00:45:46   the dock from recent to your favorite apps, right?

00:45:50   Oh, why?

00:45:51   What are they changing it to?

00:45:52   It's just going to be recent.

00:45:54   The dock is...

00:45:54   No!

00:45:55   No!

00:45:56   Why are you making it worse twice?

00:45:58   No!

00:45:58   Oh, hold on.

00:46:01   I'm not the one to blame here.

00:46:03   No, not you.

00:46:04   I'm shouting at Apple.

00:46:05   This is not directed at you.

00:46:06   So Alex wrote this in the story.

00:46:07   The dock is basically, it should be renamed to App Switcher because that's what it is.

00:46:13   The dock is going to be an app switcher for recent apps.

00:46:16   But I heard that if you have favorites in watchOS 9, in theory when you migrate to watchOS 10

00:46:29   at some point, whether it's the beta season or in September, those favorites should become

00:46:37   app icons at the top of the home screen.

00:46:42   So you will get those favorites.

00:46:46   They will be placed at the very top of the honeycomb sort of grid of apps.

00:46:54   I gotta say, this didn't work for me.

00:46:56   This transition, this migration didn't work for me with watchOS 10 beta 1.

00:47:01   So I lost all of my favorites.

00:47:03   But I heard that in theory, that's the way it should work.

00:47:06   But there isn't a way to set new favorites?

00:47:09   I guess you can manually...

00:47:11   Well, the concept of favorites is gone, right?

00:47:17   There's no way in settings to say these are my favorite apps.

00:47:24   Like that's gone completely.

00:47:26   But to sort of ease the transition, they're going to take your existing favorites and

00:47:33   at the very least, they're going to put them at the top.

00:47:36   But this is so strange to me because it's like what?

00:47:38   You get a museum, like whatever your favorite apps were in 2023,

00:47:45   they were your favorite apps forever in watchOS and you'll never be able to change them?

00:47:49   That's very strange.

00:47:50   Well, no, you can always...

00:47:53   So maybe I'm not explaining myself well.

00:47:55   You can still rearrange the grid of apps on the home screen of the watch, however you want.

00:48:00   Oh, I see what you're saying.

00:48:02   Yeah, no, that sucks.

00:48:03   I know what you're saying, but that's just not a helpful thing.

00:48:07   They are also tweaking how the grid of apps works.

00:48:12   Now it always starts from the top and it scrolls on a single axis vertically.

00:48:20   It no longer sort of zooms around on the horizontal axis.

00:48:26   It's just a vertical grid and you spin the crown and just go up and down.

00:48:30   Just use the list view.

00:48:32   Yeah, this isn't great.

00:48:35   Like, I know what you're saying, but this is just not a great solution.

00:48:40   Realistically, for most people, for me, I only ever use four apps on my watch anyway,

00:48:45   so it's not going to change, right?

00:48:49   But still, anyway, as Steve Jobs once said, back to the Mac.

00:48:54   We were saying the John screenshots...

00:48:59   Yeah, John screenshots are just a wild thing.

00:49:01   We will get to the best one in a minute.

00:49:04   They're the best.

00:49:04   But so I've been using Sonoma on a secondary machine, right?

00:49:08   I got podcast record, so I can't put it on my primary.

00:49:10   I don't like when it's on the desktop.

00:49:13   I'm glad they're free of the tyranny of notification center, but dashboard was such a good idea.

00:49:21   Like, I don't like having them visible all the time.

00:49:24   And I know they fade out and they sort of color blend, but the visual complexity of it

00:49:30   is more than I want on the Mac.

00:49:32   And I wish there was a way they could just fly in like they used to.

00:49:35   Just use stage manager.

00:49:37   That's worse.

00:49:38   Everything's flying around.

00:49:40   No, because then you, instead of them flying in, you're landing onto them.

00:49:44   You know, it's great.

00:49:45   Anyway, that's my take.

00:49:47   I'm glad they're there, but they're in the wrong place.

00:49:49   Surely some enterprising developer will make some version of this, right?

00:49:54   Maybe.

00:49:56   I don't know.

00:49:56   It's much harder to change core system functionality than it used to be.

00:50:01   Just edit a P-list.

00:50:03   It's no problem.

00:50:03   Not all things work.

00:50:05   That is how it works.

00:50:06   There's a P-list for everything and I'm sure somebody will figure it out.

00:50:10   Just P-list.

00:50:12   What else is new in Sonoma?

00:50:14   I read John's story and I still, the only thing I remember is widgets.

00:50:17   Oh, you can do the moves on FaceTime and it shows you the effects.

00:50:24   Yeah.

00:50:25   This is the best screenshot in the article.

00:50:29   So John is sitting there in front of fireworks and he says, you know what you get when you

00:50:34   FaceTime with me?

00:50:35   Fireworks.

00:50:36   John.

00:50:39   Yeah.

00:50:40   John.

00:50:40   These video conferencing features look good though in general.

00:50:44   Like the presenter overlay, the small screen sharing stuff that like they were just, you

00:50:49   can use the little green stoplight button to share a screen very easily to share an app,

00:50:54   I should say very easily.

00:50:56   And then there's also that like menu bar video conferencing control thing where you can turn

00:51:01   on and off those reactions.

00:51:02   I really can't wait for the first article that's written about like someone getting

00:51:08   fired and someone shows a thumbs up and then confetti explodes.

00:51:11   Like that's going to be so great.

00:51:12   I look forward to that happening and many articles being written about it.

00:51:18   But they do look good though, these features.

00:51:20   It's also, again, it's like that slow roll of COVID through these product features, like

00:51:26   it's still happening.

00:51:28   Like Apple and John mentioned some kind of like high bandwidth screen sharing thing that

00:51:35   exists now, which I don't really understand what that is, but it's all this like weird

00:51:41   little stuff that's existing in a, in a, in a like post there being a pandemic occurring

00:51:47   world.

00:51:48   Oh, the, this is also in our notes, Safari profiles.

00:51:52   I'm very excited about Safari profiles because it's like, it's like the evolution of tab

00:51:58   groups.

00:51:58   So there's also, as well as having tab groups, you can have this thing that sits on top of

00:52:02   them.

00:52:03   And so you can collect up, say different groups, say like personal work.

00:52:07   But the thing that excites me about the profiles thing is you could be signed into different

00:52:11   accounts.

00:52:12   Just like in Chrome.

00:52:13   So like I could be, yeah, so I could be on like Gmail in two different things, but I

00:52:21   can't find profiles on my iPhone.

00:52:25   So they are supposed to be there.

00:52:27   I don't know if they are, but what Apple said is it they're tied to focus modes or you can't

00:52:32   tie them to focus modes and they are supposed to be cross platform.

00:52:35   So I don't know if there is not there yet, but what I read is that they are supposed

00:52:39   to be on iPhone and iPad as well.

00:52:42   Wait, how do you set up a mic is right.

00:52:44   I can't find them on the iPhone at all.

00:52:46   Oh, maybe it's not.

00:52:48   Maybe it's not in the.

00:52:51   Oh yeah, they are in settings.

00:52:54   No, no, no, no.

00:52:54   Go to settings, Safari, scroll a bit and you're going to find profiles and you can create

00:53:00   a new profile.

00:53:01   Oh my God.

00:53:02   Why would you put them here?

00:53:03   Why is it here?

00:53:04   I don't know.

00:53:05   All right, great.

00:53:06   Okay.

00:53:08   Jury's a little out for me on the way that you access tab groups on the iPhone now.

00:53:13   That now it's like this scrolling list.

00:53:15   Like I'm not sure yet.

00:53:17   I'm not sure yet.

00:53:19   I love it.

00:53:19   I think it's much faster than before.

00:53:21   Like that has grown on me a lot and even just switching between normal mode and private

00:53:29   mode.

00:53:29   And just right now I have this garden tab group that I've been using for.

00:53:35   We're going to talk about this very soon, but I did a, I built with Sylvia.

00:53:40   We did it all ourselves, an irrigation system compatible with HomeKit and I am super proud

00:53:45   of it and did a lot of research and I have a tab group for it.

00:53:49   And now I think it's really cool how you can just swipe between them.

00:53:52   I like the gesture, but I understand why it takes some time to get used to it.

00:53:57   My overall kind of feeling on these betas in general is like, this is a good year.

00:54:03   There's like a lot of really interesting stuff.

00:54:06   And I'm very excited for when all of these, this is going to be one of those years where

00:54:12   it is going to take the apps releasing, right?

00:54:17   Like it's one of those years.

00:54:18   It's like widget year all over again.

00:54:19   You need to be able to experience a lot of different applications, even if you're on

00:54:23   the beta to like really experience what like interactive widgets can be.

00:54:27   And like all that kind of stuff.

00:54:30   So, but it's, there's some very exciting stuff here.

00:54:32   I think the one thing I wanted to mention, and again, please don't get upset at me in

00:54:38   case you didn't know it, in case you didn't know this, but my understanding is that the

00:54:43   stickers in Tab Back is not going to launch with 17.0, but it's coming in.

00:54:49   Why?

00:54:50   Why?

00:54:52   The stickers in Tab Back is coming in an update.

00:54:55   That's very weird.

00:54:58   I wonder if they're using it like the emoji is like a way to get people to update.

00:55:03   Or it's just not ready.

00:55:04   I mean, or it's just not ready.

00:55:06   I've been enjoying the stickers though.

00:55:07   Like I've been enjoying making stickers.

00:55:09   I really like the effects, like the puffy effect and the holographic effect.

00:55:12   Like the puffy one is good.

00:55:14   Yeah.

00:55:14   Like it's really good.

00:55:16   Yeah.

00:55:16   Yeah.

00:55:17   I took a picture of my mom sleeping.

00:55:20   Like she fell asleep on the couch and she was kind of snoring and I took a picture of

00:55:24   her made a sticker.

00:55:27   Yes.

00:55:28   And I've been sending it to Sylvia for funsies.

00:55:32   It's terrible.

00:55:32   Yeah.

00:55:34   Terrible sound.

00:55:36   But yeah.

00:55:36   Oh, I mean, I do this.

00:55:37   Like, you know, I have like funny photos of Idina and a ton of stickers in Santa Ana.

00:55:41   Yeah, exactly.

00:55:42   See, that's what I meant.

00:55:43   Yes.

00:55:44   Yeah.

00:55:45   I think iOS as I mean, widgets is the story this year, right?

00:55:50   Widgets, standby, custom stickers to an extent.

00:55:55   Widgets is the main story everywhere, right?

00:55:59   On the iPad for the lock screen, on the Mac for the desktop, on the watch.

00:56:02   And then I guess the general feeling that I have, and maybe this is an idea that I need

00:56:07   to develop further for my review.

00:56:09   iOS 17 feels like a grab bag of features.

00:56:13   All nice to have taken together, but really widgets is the story.

00:56:18   And then there's every it's like it's widgets and then there's everything else.

00:56:23   That's the way I look at it.

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00:58:11   We thread in.

00:58:13   We thread in boys!

00:58:14   We thread in.

00:58:15   I want to get a vibe check from the two of you.

00:58:19   Steven, I want to start with you actually.

00:58:21   How are you feeling about threads?

00:58:23   Pretty good.

00:58:24   Oh.

00:58:25   I think.

00:58:26   It's complicated, but overall pretty good.

00:58:28   No way.

00:58:29   Okay.

00:58:30   Federico?

00:58:30   Buy check for threads.

00:58:32   Very good.

00:58:34   Very good.

00:58:35   Very good.

00:58:38   I still feel like personally conflicted a little about the company behind it.

00:58:44   But like if you sort of isolate the product.

00:58:47   We will use Instagram.

00:58:48   Like we made our choices.

00:58:50   So here's the thing.

00:58:51   I feel like, I feel like.

00:58:53   You know me, I've been a pretty vocal critic of Facebook and Meta over the years.

00:59:00   But.

00:59:01   But.

00:59:03   I have to recognize that there are greater evils and idiots than Meta and Zoc.

00:59:14   So like, you know.

00:59:18   Sure, it hasn't been my favorite company ever.

00:59:21   But they're not the worst anymore.

00:59:25   That's sort of the way I look at it.

00:59:27   Yeah.

00:59:28   And threads is very good.

00:59:30   Right?

00:59:32   I mean it's fun.

00:59:33   And it's like.

00:59:34   The thing is people are there.

00:59:36   So.

00:59:38   And brands.

00:59:39   But you know.

00:59:41   Yeah.

00:59:41   That's one of the things that I'm a little conflicted about.

00:59:44   I mean I echo everything you say about Meta.

00:59:47   But it is perhaps the most shocking example to me of the mashup of people I know from

00:59:54   the internet and people I know in real life.

00:59:57   And those groups aren't always super compatible.

01:00:02   And so I find it kind of.

01:00:04   Kind of a strange mix, right?

01:00:06   Like I can make a weird tech joke on Mastodon.

01:00:08   Everyone gets it.

01:00:09   But if I do it on threads, then my mother-in-law texts me wanting to know what my joke was

01:00:13   about.

01:00:13   And that's weird.

01:00:14   But was that different to Twitter?

01:00:15   Like these people want.

01:00:17   Twitter had a little bit of it.

01:00:18   Okay.

01:00:19   It's not a big deal.

01:00:19   I just have noticed it.

01:00:21   And you know that's probably true for a lot of people.

01:00:24   Like if you follow a bunch of like creators and influencers on Instagram, then they're

01:00:29   like mixed in with your cousins and your in-laws.

01:00:32   That's a bit weird.

01:00:33   Yes.

01:00:34   I can imagine why that's strange.

01:00:36   From my perspective, I haven't noticed that because none of my real life friends can use

01:00:42   threads at the moment.

01:00:43   Of course.

01:00:45   Yeah.

01:00:45   Yeah.

01:00:47   Right.

01:00:48   How did you do it Federico?

01:00:50   Are you willing to divulge?

01:00:52   My long investment into being, into having a fake US App Store account continues to pay

01:01:01   off after 15 years that I started doing this.

01:01:06   It's the gift that keeps on giving.

01:01:07   So they're not locking you out.

01:01:10   Nope.

01:01:11   Like Meta's not locking you out.

01:01:12   No, you just got to download the app and you're good to go.

01:01:15   In fact, the few Italians I have seen on threads, they've done it two different ways.

01:01:22   Either my method, which is you have a US App Store account, or there was a test flight

01:01:28   link going around for a few days for a Threads test flight beta, which is no longer working,

01:01:34   but it was around for a couple of days.

01:01:36   And that's how I've seen a bunch of Italian blogs write about that using that link.

01:01:41   So they signed up, as long as you have the app on your device, you're good to go.

01:01:45   They don't lock you out.

01:01:46   I just wanted to share what I thought was a funny thing, like about the launch, because

01:01:51   I've heard people reference how like, oh, they were going to launch at such and such

01:01:55   time and then they brought it up.

01:01:57   No, they didn't.

01:01:58   They did not.

01:01:59   So I think the people at threads do not understand how iOS App Store pre-order works because

01:02:09   they set the threads as a pre-order, right?

01:02:13   And when you looked on, like they had that, remember that past thing that was in Instagram,

01:02:18   like you could go and you could see your name, flick around and say like available, whatever.

01:02:22   And for me, it was like I said, like available at 7 p.m. or something like that, because

01:02:27   that was when they wanted to launch it.

01:02:29   But they set it as a pre-order on the App Store, which means it was happening midnight

01:02:34   my time.

01:02:34   And there was nothing they could do about that because that's how pre-ordering the App

01:02:38   Store works.

01:02:39   Like it just automatically downloads when the day ticks over.

01:02:42   And then like at some point, they're like, hey, we decided to bring the launch forward.

01:02:46   It's like, no, you haven't.

01:02:47   Somebody realized that the app was going to be available in the United Kingdom and other

01:02:53   places, I'm sure.

01:02:54   Like because we were one of the earlier time zones where it was actually available.

01:02:58   So I just thought it was like a funny thing that like the day was going to take over and

01:03:01   then it's going to become available.

01:03:03   And so they just moved the launch up.

01:03:04   So everyone would get it at the same time.

01:03:06   I thought it was very funny.

01:03:07   That's how I assume this whole thing went down because they like I would have gotten

01:03:11   the app at midnight, but they were saying it wasn't going to launch for like another

01:03:15   seven hours.

01:03:15   It's just like that's I don't think that's how that works.

01:03:18   But that was fine.

01:03:19   Well, I do think there's also there's also a competing story that Threads launch was

01:03:25   brought up, but by weeks, not the weird App Store thing, but but also that they saw

01:03:30   they were they they brought it up and they were going to launch it on the fourth of July

01:03:33   weekend.

01:03:33   Right.

01:03:34   Or whatever.

01:03:34   Then they brought it forward like a day and then brought it forward apparently by like

01:03:38   seven hours.

01:03:39   But like those that last one with the hour change of in the same day, I think was because

01:03:43   of the App Store.

01:03:44   Agree.

01:03:44   Yeah.

01:03:45   This is pointless.

01:03:46   It's just something it's my little pet theory.

01:03:47   But the way they launched I just think is awesome and savage.

01:03:52   Like how they just saw the moment and just went for it.

01:03:56   And I got a lot of respect for like how they just saw a moment and then just mobilized

01:04:02   the company and just delivered it.

01:04:04   And delivered it to a point where they can support 100 million people in five days, which

01:04:10   is just like I don't even I don't understand how they were able to make that work and the

01:04:16   app be so reliable.

01:04:18   It's wild how they've scaled to the size that they have so quickly.

01:04:23   It is wild, but it's also it's Facebook, you know, so like if there's a company that I

01:04:29   mean, it's two companies that know infrastructure really well.

01:04:31   I think Facebook and Google much more than Twitter, of course, and much more than Apple

01:04:35   maybe.

01:04:35   This is what they do, right?

01:04:37   This is this is what they sell.

01:04:39   Yeah.

01:04:40   It's the they make a living out of being available and they run WhatsApp.

01:04:44   Probably the only tech company that could pull this off, I reckon.

01:04:48   Probably, yes.

01:04:49   Because I don't think anybody else is so tuned to dealing with this exact problem.

01:04:55   Right.

01:04:56   Like I just I feel like maybe they're the only ones that could do this.

01:05:01   Like for me, I'm really looking forward to this proposed following feed because I don't

01:05:06   follow a ton of people.

01:05:08   And so I'm seeing like quite a lot of like content that they want me to see.

01:05:15   You know what I mean?

01:05:16   Like I feel like I'm bumping into the algorithm quite frequently.

01:05:19   Yeah.

01:05:20   Because my following count is pretty low.

01:05:22   And so I get it.

01:05:24   Like I get the idea of showing me stuff and I see stuff that's interesting to me.

01:05:28   Like I do.

01:05:29   But I would also but like I feel like sometimes I'm not seeing the posts from people that

01:05:35   follow because they're giving me too much algorithm content.

01:05:38   And I feel like they still get it.

01:05:40   Yeah.

01:05:40   They still get a tune to balance, I think.

01:05:41   I think they have and it's been better.

01:05:44   Right.

01:05:45   Like I'm seeing way less stuff that I'm like absolutely not or actively not interested

01:05:50   in.

01:05:51   You know what I mean?

01:05:51   Like, yeah, like as a sucker, unlike I don't know why you're showing me this, but now I

01:05:55   am seeing things that are related to my interests, but not my choice to follow them.

01:06:00   Like I'm seeing a lot of Formula One content and I don't really follow a lot of Formula

01:06:05   One content creators or accounts, but like Instagram knows enough about me.

01:06:09   But they know that.

01:06:10   Yeah.

01:06:11   But they know that about you.

01:06:12   Yeah.

01:06:12   Right.

01:06:12   Which is fine.

01:06:13   Yeah.

01:06:14   Do you get in the algorithmic feed, do you get those sort of lifestyle influencers on

01:06:23   threads?

01:06:24   Yeah, I've got quite a few of those.

01:06:26   And just like the general meme accounts.

01:06:28   Here's the success to wealth.

01:06:30   Wake up in the morning, like, why are you showing me these people?

01:06:33   There is a lot of engagement thirst on threads in like a way I have not experienced on a

01:06:38   social platform before.

01:06:39   Like there's a lot of like, hey, share your thing with me, you know?

01:06:44   Yeah.

01:06:45   Like what's your X, Y, Z?

01:06:47   I've seen a bunch of posts where like, good morning, everyone on threads.

01:06:51   What's everyone up to?

01:06:52   It's like, have you used Twitter at all for the past 15 years?

01:06:57   It's like, really?

01:06:59   Federica, I think a lot of these people maybe have, haven't really.

01:07:02   Maybe that's the thing.

01:07:03   Maybe they haven't.

01:07:05   Maybe.

01:07:05   But also though, you know what, like for me, I prefer that to like, oh my God, have you

01:07:12   seen this news?

01:07:13   You know?

01:07:14   But I mean, anything.

01:07:15   I know what I would prefer to receive.

01:07:17   Alright, alright.

01:07:17   So anything is literally preferable to Nazis.

01:07:22   On a social network, right?

01:07:24   So it's a pretty low bar in terms of what kind of algorithmic feed you want to put together.

01:07:31   I mean, and that's the one thing that I want to call out about threads is that, you know,

01:07:37   at the very least, they have a proper content moderation policy in place and you cannot

01:07:45   say certain things and you cannot show certain things.

01:07:49   And they have an actual team of professionals that can handle this kind of stuff instead

01:07:55   of just, you know, Elon Musk going on Twitter and being like, you know, saying cisgender

01:08:01   is a slur.

01:08:02   Like it's a pretty stark difference in terms of the kind of policy that they have, these

01:08:07   two networks.

01:08:08   So, you know, that's I think what contributes to my feeling of being like, you know, this

01:08:17   is kind of nice compared to Twitter because here's the thing.

01:08:20   So I've read about this this morning.

01:08:22   I love Mastodon, right?

01:08:25   And I have an incredible audience of people there and I feel very lucky that we moved

01:08:31   to Mastodon at exactly the right time with Mac stories, that we have our own instance

01:08:35   that we control and that a lot of tech people are there.

01:08:41   And I'm super happy about that as a creator.

01:08:46   But as putting myself in the shoes of someone who wants to follow other people, none of

01:08:54   the folks I used to follow on Twitter, music Twitter, video games, Twitter, Pokemon, Twitter,

01:09:00   none of those people, none of those content creators ever moved from Twitter to Mastodon.

01:09:09   And so in going to Mastodon, I feel like I pretty much built a following list that was

01:09:19   sort of a single topic.

01:09:21   I opened my Mastodon timeline and all I see is tech, Apple and Google stuff.

01:09:28   And Threads feels refreshing because all the people I used to follow, music, blogs, artists,

01:09:37   Pokemon, Twitter, video games, Twitter, video games, journalists, like all of those people

01:09:43   are here and they're posting like they're using it.

01:09:46   And I don't have to open Twitter anymore just to check on those folks.

01:09:51   I don't have to see the ads that Twitter wants to show me.

01:09:57   I don't have to like I opened Twitter a couple of weeks ago and I saw a recommended interview

01:10:05   with Andrew Tate or some idiot of that kind.

01:10:09   It's like, I don't, I just, it's upsetting.

01:10:13   It's so bad.

01:10:15   It's literally become the hellscape that we always knew it was going to be.

01:10:20   And that's why I think Threads is like, it feels like a positive thing right now.

01:10:27   Right now, they may ruin it very soon, but right now in this very moment, it feels like

01:10:33   a nice thing to have because it's like, it's what Twitter used to be, but without Elon Musk.

01:10:38   And, uh, yeah, you know, that's sort of how I would describe it.

01:10:44   I hope that they're able to do what they are aiming to try and do, which is to set it apart

01:10:53   a little bit.

01:10:54   Like they're being very like open and clear about how news is not a focus for them.

01:11:02   Where like for Twitter, it clearly always was right.

01:11:05   Like the easiest way to get verified on Twitter at a certain point was to work for a news

01:11:11   organization because Twitter would just ordain anybody who worked at a news organization

01:11:17   with verification, right?

01:11:19   You just had to work there and you'd get it.

01:11:20   And like, and that I think pushed a lot of journalists to the platform of all kinds and

01:11:27   just like really made Twitter like a thing for news and less about what it was, which

01:11:33   was like, what's happening, you know, or like, what are you up to?

01:11:38   What are you doing?

01:11:39   Rather than like what news is going on in the world.

01:11:43   And I think that there is a distinction there, which I think is pretty important.

01:11:47   And so I do hope that like they're able to try and not wait so heavily to news.

01:11:55   Like clearly news will be occurring and people will be able to share whatever they want.

01:12:01   But I just think that there is like a mindset and approach difference, which I think is

01:12:06   a better one.

01:12:07   Like I think it's more important really for like people to connect with each other about

01:12:13   things that they're interested in rather than having like another place for news organizations

01:12:19   to just share their news all the time.

01:12:21   Like we just go read the news when we want to get the news like that.

01:12:25   That's very much my approach.

01:12:26   I'm not saying that people have to be like shut off from the world, but like just go

01:12:32   get the news when you want to get the news or like hear about the news because your friends

01:12:36   spoke about it or like, you know, that kind of thing.

01:12:38   I feel like that's better than like, oh, here's your for you tab of trending news and here's

01:12:45   this news and you want some more news?

01:12:47   Here's some news.

01:12:48   Like I just I think that for me was what really wore me down on Twitter over time.

01:12:54   And so I kind of hope that Threads is able to approach things differently, like not to

01:13:00   not have it.

01:13:01   Right.

01:13:01   And it's not like they're like, hey, journalists go away.

01:13:05   Right.

01:13:05   Like they're not doing that.

01:13:07   But it's I think it's just like a focus difference, which I think is nice, I think.

01:13:14   Maybe I'm being too idealistic.

01:13:17   Maybe I'm like I think they're being idealistic and maybe I'm just going along with them.

01:13:21   But I just hope that they're able to do something like that.

01:13:23   Yeah, I think ultimately any service that looks like Twitter will swing towards news

01:13:32   and current events because the format is so good for that.

01:13:36   Short form text images, short form video.

01:13:40   And so I think that the march of news will happen kind of regardless of whether you want

01:13:45   it or not. But I think at least the way Threads is structured so far, maybe it'll be easier

01:13:52   to avoid.

01:13:52   Like they don't have a trending thing and maybe they will at some point.

01:13:56   I'm sure Twitter algorithmically tailored itself to news.

01:14:01   Like I'm not saying to anger.

01:14:02   I know a lot of people say to anger and I'm not sure that they made that decision

01:14:06   purposefully, but I think that the site just did it.

01:14:10   Right.

01:14:11   But like I think that they waited news very heavily and maybe if you don't wait news as

01:14:17   heavily, like obviously it still breaks in, but maybe it's not so prevalent.

01:14:22   You know what I mean?

01:14:23   Like that that's my hope.

01:14:25   Whether it happens or not, who could tell?

01:14:27   Time.

01:14:28   Time will tell.

01:14:29   Because I do think this is going to eat Twitter.

01:14:32   Like I think this is it.

01:14:33   Obviously this is too soon to call, but if I was going to put my money down, this is

01:14:39   the one.

01:14:40   Seems like it's going to be.

01:14:42   And again, it goes back to the scale conversation.

01:14:45   Like if anyone can do this currently, it's going to be meta.

01:14:49   And building it a top, Instagram gave him such a head start.

01:14:52   Like no one's going to no one's going to catch him.

01:14:55   Not easily.

01:14:56   Oh, nobody catches this.

01:14:58   Like it's not possible.

01:15:00   Surely.

01:15:02   Right.

01:15:03   Like who could launch a service that would be compelling enough?

01:15:06   There's no one that can do this.

01:15:08   Like to launch a service and it grow to this scale.

01:15:12   Like really, if meta can't do this, then nobody will be able to do it.

01:15:17   I feel like.

01:15:18   Right.

01:15:20   Like who could launch a new company today in 2023 that's like Twitter and take over

01:15:29   Twitter's user base and become the de facto standard.

01:15:31   Like it's just.

01:15:32   Yeah.

01:15:32   I can't imagine a new company doing it.

01:15:35   What was it going to be?

01:15:36   Blue Sky?

01:15:37   You know what I mean?

01:15:38   Like no offense, but like it's not going to happen.

01:15:40   Right.

01:15:40   Like like it's meta can do it because they have the social graph already.

01:15:46   Like it already exists.

01:15:48   And then they have the ability to tell everyone.

01:15:52   Like I think I saw something where they were like, you know, they were super pleased about

01:15:56   where they got to because they hadn't even started to promote it in the ways that they

01:15:59   can promote it.

01:16:00   Right.

01:16:01   Like Instagram and the Facebook app.

01:16:04   I don't know about the Facebook app.

01:16:06   I don't use it, but like Instagram is not very heavy on telling you to go like I don't

01:16:11   think Instagram ever told me that threads existed.

01:16:14   No, right and so like they haven't even done any of that yet, and so no one has this.

01:16:21   What they have and I feel like the app is good enough.

01:16:24   I feel like they will be able to build an app that is as good, if not better than the

01:16:27   Twitter app right and then also if they do pull like go through with the activity pub

01:16:34   thing like this is a slam dunk.

01:16:36   Like I feel like it's no one can catch this and I feel like slowly Twitter is just gonna

01:16:42   fade away to this.

01:16:44   Maybe I'm like, you know, hit me back on this in a year, but that's kind of where I'm feeling

01:16:49   right now.

01:16:49   Yeah, I agree with that.

01:16:51   I think you're right.

01:16:53   I think there was a there was an opportunity here and meta took it and they ran with it

01:16:58   and they didn't even try actually.

01:16:59   They just they sprinted with it.

01:17:02   And and it's working and I honestly I feel like it the way I think this will go is this

01:17:10   will hurt Twitter and Mosseri can say whatever they want about like we're not trying to do

01:17:17   news.

01:17:17   They will do news at some point and I will be shocked if the way this the way this will

01:17:24   shake out in my mind is Instagram will continue to be the place for following your friends

01:17:32   and you know celebrities and what they do with reels and stories.

01:17:36   But on threads I think what they will do is they will incorporate the close friends feature

01:17:44   so you will be able to post status updates for just your friends.

01:17:48   But you also be able to post updates about like your interests or if you're if you have

01:17:55   a website, you know more Twitter style news updates.

01:17:59   So I think they will have to do that and they're not doing it now but I think once they realize

01:18:07   so we kill Twitter.

01:18:08   Well it's it's obvious right because it's what they always wanted right with all the

01:18:15   different strategies they've tried with Facebook to sort of you know convince publishers to

01:18:21   to have content on Facebook and I mean I can name two or three different things that tried

01:18:27   over the years remember Facebook paper for example and now they have this massive opportunity

01:18:35   because they own the network that journalists want to use and that press organizations wants

01:18:41   to use and it's such a sweet sweet opportunity to pass it up.

01:18:45   There is one issue with that which is governments now trying to convince Facebook to pay publishers

01:18:53   and Facebook are saying we're not going to do that and so like I think that they don't

01:18:58   want to be in the we're working with journalists business but I think that they will be happy

01:19:04   to be in the we provide the pipes business right like right like I can't imagine them

01:19:10   starting a news organization initiative again.

01:19:13   I think they want to be the place where journalists hang out and like break news but they don't

01:19:21   necessarily want to be a publishing platform for their finished work like that was kind

01:19:27   of the beauty and I followed a lot of journalists on Twitter like political journalists space

01:19:30   journalists obviously a lot of tech ones I had lists set up for these different groups

01:19:34   and what was great about it is not only did you see like oh hey I have this little tidbit

01:19:38   I'm going to share here and you know 20 minutes later okay here's the article I wrote you

01:19:43   know on this website go check it out but you also got to see the conversations between

01:19:48   the people in these fields and that's just gone currently I mean a lot of that's still

01:19:54   on Twitter but for those of us who aren't you know we don't have a place to see that

01:19:56   sort of thing so I think if Meta can walk that line with threads I think it'll be it'll

01:20:03   be successful in that regard and like there's already a lot of those journalists who I used

01:20:07   to follow on Twitter who have popped up and who are basically treating it like they did

01:20:12   Twitter and that's that's exciting to see well I'm sure we will talk much more about

01:20:16   threads over the coming weeks it's gonna evolve it's gonna it's gonna change it's gonna evolve

01:20:20   yeah it's gonna evolve into a rich tapestry because it's like a thread oh I didn't get it

01:20:26   didn't get it we were trying to avoid the thread puns and you just had to go there okay if you want

01:20:33   to find a link to the stuff we spoke about including all the great coverage of the public

01:20:38   betas on max stories and six colors check out the links in your podcast player they're also

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01:20:56   feedback or follow up via a form on our website links to both are in the show notes you can find

01:21:02   us all online mike is the host of a bunch of other great shows here on the relay fm network

01:21:08   and he is the co-founder of cortex brand you can find federico's work at max stories dot net

01:21:15   and he is on mastodon as vatichi at max stories dot net mike is also in mastodon no follow me on

01:21:22   threads man i'm i mike on threads okay we're gonna do threads okay all right yeah i want to do

01:21:28   threads now thread me mike is i mike at threads federico is at vatichi on threads i am at ismh

01:21:37   86 we're gonna talk about that in the pro show i want to talk about that in the pro show what

01:21:42   happened to your name there a bad thing happened at my name you can say follow us on threads you

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