0:00:00So, it's the year of work as part of the year of work. I want to take more work trips,
0:00:06more greycations. Rent a hotel room, basically a self-created prison to just do a bunch of
0:00:14work. That's where I'm recording the show from right now. I'm once again at an undisclosed
0:00:20location in England in a hotel room.
0:00:23Is this like you've spoken to the guard and this is your one call from the prison?
0:00:29I get my one phone call! And this is it.
0:00:32You can have your one phone call but it also has to be work and thus we're talking.
0:00:37And that phone call will last six hours but it is just one phone call.
0:00:40So of course finding the right kind of place, difficult. But found a hotel, came to hotel,
0:00:47come into the hotel room and of course the very first thing I do is I go to the air conditioning
0:00:53and I turn it all the way down to 16. And it let me. I thought, "Wow! This is great!
0:01:01Just what I wanted, just what I hope for in the world." But as I'm unpacking, as I'm setting
0:01:06up I feel like, "Boy, it just doesn't feel like it's actually getting cold. What's happening
0:01:13here?" And I look back and the thermostat says, "18." That's funny. I could have sworn
0:01:20that the thing that I always do I did when I entered this room which was turn it down
0:01:24to 16. So I go over there, boop boop boop, set it down to 16, stays at 16, I walk away,
0:01:32do my stuff, but later in the evening I again notice 18, not 16. So I thought, "Uh oh."
0:01:39I go over, I press the little thermostat down, boop boop boop, 16. But this time I stand
0:01:44there and I watch it. And I swear to God for people just like me, this hotel put in some
0:01:51delay which is, "Let them set the temperature to whatever they want, but wait 10 seconds
0:01:58and then bring it back up to 18 and hope that they don't notice." So of course, where do
0:02:05I go immediately? 10 p.m. at night I'm down at the front desk. "Hey, let me put the air
0:02:11conditioning whichever way I want." "What would you like to do in the room, sir?" "I
0:02:14would like to set the AC lower." "Oh, you want the room colder?" "Yes, colder." "Why
0:02:20would you like it colder?" And this is where it's like I lose my mind, right? Like I don't
0:02:24need to explain to you why. They can tell you, "No sir, we can't do that." Right? And
0:02:29that's like whatever, like these are the rules, this is the system, whatever. There is absolutely
0:02:34zero point being like, "Why?" What do you mean, "Why?" I'm not like running a science
0:02:39experiment that you're going to find out about. I just want it to be colder. Like you can
0:02:43do it or not, but the why is unimportant. I've got some cryogenically frozen dinosaurs
0:02:49embryos in my suitcase. Like what do you mean, "Why?" Like it's, I would like it colder.
0:02:53I've been a hotel room that I'm paying for. Like just can we do the thing? So we had to
0:02:58have this like awkward conversation about why I would like it to be colder, which I'm
0:03:03trying to shortcut to, "Can you make it colder?" What was your answer? I'm intrigued. When
0:03:07they said, "Why do you want it to be colder?" What did you say? Mike, this is not me at
0:03:12my best. I will just, I will fully admit like these are the kind of human interactions where
0:03:17I just, I do not perform the best. And I just repeat, "Because I would like it colder?"
0:03:24And then they ask again and then I say, "Because I'm uncomfortable." There must be something
0:03:28about like this interaction. I could always feel like, "Oh, this doesn't go well." Right?
0:03:32I already know I'm in trouble. No, but like, but this is why I ask because I actually don't
0:03:35think that there is a good way for this conversation to go. Yeah, there's no good way for it to
0:03:39go. The question is pointless. Like the only answer is the one that it is, which is I want
0:03:43it to be colder. Right. There doesn't have to be like a reason, you know? Yeah. And I
0:03:49also, I feel like I think the reason it trips up my brain is I feel like questions like
0:03:54that, which I do get sometimes when you're interacting with like customer service people
0:03:58in some ways, like I would like to do a thing. And frequently I feel like they ask me why
0:04:02because I'm wanting something that's just like slightly out of the ordinary. How many
0:04:06guests ever come down to the front like hours after checking in to ask about the thermostat?
0:04:10I don't know, man. I expect every American that's ever gone to that hotel has come down
0:04:14to the front desk to ask that question. Honestly, like I don't think that this is that rare
0:04:20for them. You might be right. You might be right. But yeah, I feel like a why question.
0:04:25It's like an implicit invitation to lie, right? Because the sort of implication is if you
0:04:32have a good enough answer, this will be granted. I feel like that's kind of the implication
0:04:37behind a why question. So anyway, we stumble around with the why question. Again, in my
0:04:42whole life, all I wish to be is not noticed. But now we're having the manager come down
0:04:48to the front desk because I've like thrown off the person who's actually at the front
0:04:52desk and the manager's like, we went through the whole rigmarole again. She asks, "What
0:04:56would you like to do? Why would you like to do this?" I find the room physically uncomfortable
0:05:00at the temperature. Like I could see that the thermostat will go down to 16, but then
0:05:04it bumps it back up to 18. Can I get this changed? So the strategy now from the hotel's
0:05:08perspective was delay. So they tell me, "Oh, we need the maintenance department in order
0:05:14to do that. But we have no maintenance department on the weekends." And I'm just like narrowing
0:05:21my eyes looking at the manager, because I'm thinking, "What do I do if something breaks
0:05:24on a Sunday?" Exactly. I'm in a hotel. There are hundreds of rooms in this hotel. There
0:05:29is no universe where you don't have a maintenance department on the weekends when you have hundreds
0:05:36of hotel rooms. It's just not possible. So they delay, delight, and they're like, "Well,
0:05:40sir, I checked in on a Saturday." "Well, sir, we'll have to get the maintenance department
0:05:44in on the weekday, right? When the Monday starts." And then of course, when I follow
0:05:48this up, the end result is, "No, I'm afraid we just can't do anything about the air conditioning.
0:05:54It's centrally set."
0:05:55I was waiting for that. Essentially. So many times I've heard you hear things like that,
0:06:01right? "Oh, it's centrally set." "Oh, central's doing it."
0:06:05Okay, central's doing it, right? Yes, exactly. So it's like this is my life now, right? I'm
0:06:12thinking, again, ideally I would like to do at least one or maybe two more little short,
0:06:19intense working trips before the year is over to just try to knock out a bunch of stuff
0:06:23that I want to do for a year of work. But I'm just thinking, great, now this is another
0:06:27thing that I need to add onto my checklist. It's like, does the hotel have air conditioning?
0:06:32Yes, which is hard enough to find in England. But then what? I need to call and ask them,
0:06:37tell me what your air conditioning is really set at. Like, I know you have it, but I also
0:06:43know now this is just a thing that's going to be spreading everywhere. You're all centrally
0:06:47setting the air conditioning at whatever you want to set it at. And I am but a humble pawn
0:06:52in this system and I can't do anything to try to improve my situation.
0:06:57If you will allow me, I want to roleplay this conversation when you call.
0:07:01Oh no, okay.
0:07:02Okay, so you've called and I'm like, "Hello, this is the hotel. How can I help you?"
0:07:07Oh, oh, okay. Well, I don't want to be on this call in the first place.
0:07:10Well, you're on it now.
0:07:11Oh no, okay. Hi, I'm thinking of booking a room in your hotel, but I need to know what
0:07:17you actually set the minimum air conditioning to.
0:07:21Why?
0:07:22Oh, no!
0:07:23You really think that this is a question that anyone's going to answer in a way that you
0:07:28find satisfying? They'll tell you either whatever you want to hear or they'll just say, "Why?"
0:07:34I know. This is the thing. I know that this is one of these things where, from the hotel's
0:07:39perspective, they just want me to book the room, right? And then later it'll be like,
0:07:44"Oh, well, we didn't have that policy in place when you booked, but between then and your
0:07:48arrival like this new system rolled out."
0:07:50So here's my thought on the future because I was like, "Alright, well, this is just going
0:07:54to be a problem in my life." But problems are meant to be solved. I went on YouTube
0:07:59and I tried to find like some thermostats will have a secret like bypass mode if you
0:08:03press the right set of buttons. This one didn't have a secret bypass mode. But in the process
0:08:08of doing that, it occurred to me, I was realizing, "Oh, HVAC systems are actually very electrically
0:08:13simple." Like, I know behind this panel, there's really only three wires, only one of which
0:08:20is powered, and one of them just needs to get the correct signal to turn the AC on.
0:08:26So I've just been trying to think and trying to strategize about what can I do in the future.
0:08:31And I guess my plan is going to be if I've booked a hotel room, see if I can find the
0:08:37exact model of thermostat that they're using on one of the product photos of the room,
0:08:43and just order one of those to bring with me with a small electrical kit to just replace
0:08:49it on the wall. I think this is going to be my plan going forward.
0:08:52I think this is a step too far. Actually, I think it's more than one step too far, I
0:08:57think.
0:08:58What's too far about this?
0:08:59Fiddling with the electronics and like, I just think that's too far. I also, also, I
0:09:04bet it won't get you what you want anyway.
0:09:06What do you perceive is going to be the roadblock for this plan?
0:09:09I mean, I don't know enough about how HVAC systems work, right? But I don't think that
0:09:14the actual thermostat on the wall is the problem. Because you're telling that thermostat what
0:09:18you want, right?
0:09:19Yeah. So I went to the company that manufactures the thermostat in my room and went through
0:09:25all of their technical details and discovered, much to my delight, that…
0:09:29You're supposed to be working. What are you doing?
0:09:33I'm trying to work, right? The hotel is like getting in my way.
0:09:37It's not that hot. 18 degrees is like, I will say like 16 is freezing. I don't know
0:09:44why you want to sit in that temperature anyway. 18 is like in a room that's cold.
0:09:50I'm literally sweating right now as we're having this conversation.
0:09:52Well, because you're getting worked up. That's why.
0:09:53I can mop the sweat off of my brow in this 18 degree room.
0:09:58Then look, let me tell you, right? If that's the thing, your problem is not the air conditioning.
0:10:02You need to see a doctor. That I think is the actual situation. You shouldn't be that
0:10:07hot. How many clothes are you wearing? What are you doing?
0:10:11I'm just here in a t-shirt. But okay, so listen, the important thing is HVAC systems
0:10:16in the hotel rooms, even according to a company that is very clearly marketing this to hotels
0:10:22as "Hey, we will save you a bunch of money by mildly inconveniencing all of your guests."
0:10:28Like that is totally the pitch, right, from the HVAC company. But each of the systems
0:10:33is electrically isolated in the room. The thermostats are on the Wi-Fi network. That's
0:10:39where they're receiving instructions from. It's like, "Ah, okay." So they're connecting
0:10:44to like the hotel Wi-Fi to get the instructions of like, "We're not allowed to turn it down
0:10:49below here." And ultimately, this is just a little machine that is applying or not applying
0:10:54voltage to these three wires on the back. So I don't think there's any kind of direct
0:11:00communication between the actual AC and heating system and the rest of the hotel. I think
0:11:05it's purely for that little panel that's sitting on front. So anyway, this is what was going
0:11:10through my mind, but I have gotten the temperature just a little below 18 to, when I'm not renting
0:11:17on a podcast, acceptable temperatures. Because there's a very strange layout in this room,
0:11:22which is that the TV is basically right next to the thermostat. And the other thing I wanted
0:11:28to know is, where is the heat sensor in the thermostat? So if I turn on the TV and put
0:11:38a big towel over the TV, the TV gets very warm. And it's clearly tricked the thermostat
0:11:45into thinking the room is like half a degree warmer than it really is for the air temperature.
0:11:51And when the TV eventually sets fire to the towel, the room will get even colder. So that
0:11:56will be good for you. See, my feeling here, like this thing that you've mentioned, this
0:11:59is exactly the reason they should just let me set the temperature to where I want it
0:12:03to be. You cannot draw the like a line between these. You should because otherwise I'll have
0:12:09to set the room on fire. Like this is not like a logical cause and effect of why they
0:12:13should make the room colder because otherwise the guests will catch fire to things. Look,
0:12:19you don't want people monkeying around with your electrics. So don't force them to. We
0:12:24cannot draw the conclusion here. Like, because this isn't a natural evolution of this problem.
0:12:31No, but it is a very natural evolution of this problem. I have a problem. What are my
0:12:35tools to solve the problem? Like that's, of course it's going to go this way. Yeah, but
0:12:39most people will have stopped at bring my own thermostat. There are many steps between
0:12:46like, yeah, there are many steps that people would naturally end before I will research
0:12:56the thermostat, buy a thermostat, wait for the thermostat to be delivered, bring it and
0:13:02a screwdriver to the hotel. Most people will have stopped before then. I mean, what most
0:13:06people do is not my problem. I'm just talking about what I'm doing and why the hotel should
0:13:10let me do what I want to do. I don't want to bring a thermostat to the room either. Like,
0:13:14I don't want to be monkeying around with the electrics. I was also trying to think like,
0:13:18can I rig up or maybe Cortex brand could sell some kind of product where it's like, you
0:13:24can attach something to the thermostat and put a hot water bottle in it or something
0:13:27to like, again, trick the thermostat into thinking what is the actual temperature of
0:13:31the room so that it will drop the temperature. Maybe there are like less invasive ways to
0:13:36do that. I don't want to be any more involved in this situation than I already currently
0:13:41am. So no, I'm going to veto the Cortex brand thermostat tricking water bottle from existing.
0:13:48I don't know Mike. I think there could be a really big market. Only, only, no, no.
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0:16:22So I took my assignment after our last episode which was to install iOS 17 and try out the
0:16:27mood tracking. Yes, yes I forgot about that, right, right. And so in between us recording
0:16:33and publishing the show I installed iOS 17 on my phone and I would say like overall the
0:16:39beta has been mostly okay, it's as good or bad as any other beta but I really wanted
0:16:44to try out the mood tracking. And I would say that like overall it's doing what I expected
0:16:51in the way that I expected but I think it has for me I think one key problem. So this
0:16:57system will allow you to multiple times a day either whenever you decide or if you set
0:17:03up the system to prompt you via notifications to tell it how you are feeling. It's all contained
0:17:09in the health app which if you want to go in manually and add it to yourself suffers
0:17:14the exact same problem that everything else in the health app does which is just it's
0:17:17just not very well laid out. It's like just in this like list of cards. I would honestly
0:17:23prefer Apple to have distinct apps for all of these things like the medicine tracking
0:17:28and you know which they do on the Apple watch but not on the phone. I would just prefer
0:17:31if they broke all these out into their own separate things so it would be easier to get
0:17:35to them. But you will go in and you press the log button and it asks you know how are
0:17:40you you can log how you're feeling right now or how you felt overall in the day. And the
0:17:44first thing that it takes you to is like this really pretty animation and you can on a scale
0:17:49from very unpleasant to very pleasant you like drag this slider to say how you're feeling.
0:17:54And my favorite thing about all of it is the colors and the animations and the shapes that
0:17:58the system shows you. I just think this is a really nice and soft way to help somebody
0:18:04maybe kind of get across what they're trying to get across of how they're feeling. I just
0:18:08think that it looks really good and I think people could maybe attach to certain shapes
0:18:13and colors. I have no doubt that there is some really good science in this you know
0:18:18is more than for me to understand right of like why you would do it this way.
0:18:21Also, Apple has finally validated my purple is clearly the worst color feeling because
0:18:27very unpleasant is purple.
0:18:29Like kind of salmon-y orange is like very pleasant with green and blue in the middle.
0:18:35So everything's kind of like stars and flowers right is like what they're going for. It's
0:18:39all really interesting design wise. You go in and you state how you're feeling. The next
0:18:45question you're given is what best describes this feeling and it gives you a bunch of words
0:18:49that you can just tap the word which is the most applicable and these words differ depending
0:18:55on how pleasant and unpleasant you're saying you're feeling. But you can tap a button that
0:19:00says show more and it gives you the full list of all of them. So like for example if you
0:19:05are feeling very pleasant but for some reason want to say annoyed you can say that by tapping
0:19:10into the show more. Right like I don't know why you would necessarily match that up but
0:19:14you can.
0:19:15My main issue with the app is what happens after you press this button. So it says what
0:19:20best describes this thing you choose then you press next and it says what's having the
0:19:25biggest impact on you. And you are given a list of things that's set up into like three
0:19:31groups but in my opinion there is just not enough descriptors here. So like I'll give
0:19:37you a good example right. One day I was like not feeling too great about something we had
0:19:42going on in the house with some renovations that we have going on. So I said that I was
0:19:47feeling very unpleasant and you know it's like what best describes this feeling and
0:19:52I was like disappointed, stressed, worried right. I press next and there is nothing in
0:19:59here for what is having the biggest impact on you that is relatable to what I'm feeling.
0:20:07There is nothing about home here for example. Right so like I could have said health, fitness,
0:20:13self care, hobbies, identity, spirituality, community, family, friends, partner, dating,
0:20:18tasks, work, education, travel, weather, current events, money. They are the same always. Now
0:20:24if you tap one of these it gives you the ability to add additional context and so you could
0:20:30write down what you are feeling. But there were multiple times where I felt like I couldn't
0:20:34express what I wanted because this biggest impact field just didn't have something that
0:20:41was relating to what was making me feel a certain way. And what I don't understand is
0:20:46why they have so many options for the description words but so few options for the impact words.
0:20:56I think it will turn people off because I think people are pretty vulnerable a lot of
0:21:01the time when they are entering something like this. And if you are feeling a certain
0:21:05feeling you are looking for validation that what you are feeling is real and if you come
0:21:12to this screen and you can't find it, it almost makes me feel a little bit like worrying
0:21:18about your home is not something to worry about.
0:21:22I don't mean to laugh but I'm just realizing you feel like the phone isn't validating
0:21:27that feeling? Is that the way you would want to express that?
0:21:30Yeah. It's like you could go to here and you go to very unpleasant and you are looking
0:21:35for air conditioning thermostat but it's just not there.
0:21:37It isn't there yeah. I'm feeling very unpleasant about it.
0:21:40Yes you are feeling very unpleasant right now because your co-host won't agree that
0:21:43you should be able to take an electric screwdriver to a hotel room.
0:21:46No he won't help me make the product with the hot water bottle.
0:21:49Okay same thing.
0:21:51I still have agency with the screwdriver Mike.
0:21:53I find this to just be an odd omission or even the additional context allowing you to
0:22:00type in whatever you want that should just be there always. Rather than it necessarily
0:22:06being the buttons. They're restricting me to choosing and some of the time the feelings
0:22:10that I was having I couldn't express with the choice that they were making me make.
0:22:17And so I found that to be weird.
0:22:19You felt boxed in by the end result of like what is the root cause of this thing?
0:22:24Yeah I had to say like oh money but it wasn't a money problem. That's not the problem
0:22:30that it was. It was just something that was frustrating to me that was going to take more
0:22:34time for something to be done. But there wasn't anything that I could tap inside of this screen
0:22:41that I felt could accurately like get across what I was frustrated about.
0:22:46So in its current state how useful do you think this is for you?
0:22:52I mean for me not but I wasn't looking for this. At the moment I don't really feel
0:22:56like I need an app like this. But if I was in a time when I feel like I did or if I take
0:23:03myself back to the time when I was using mood path this would be very useful for me. It
0:23:07is not perfect but I feel like it would at least give me a low friction way to be able
0:23:14to think a little bit more deeply about what's making me upset or how I'm feeling in any
0:23:20moment whether it's good or bad or otherwise. And the simplicity and visual nature of it
0:23:25are fantastic. Like this is the kind of thing that Apple is good for right? It's like
0:23:29boiling things down to their simplest form and giving you an entry path into this kind
0:23:35of idea. And I think that this app does that. So where like for example I might start using
0:23:40this and start logging and then be like "Oh I can't actually find all of the things
0:23:45I want. Is there anything else out there that is more advanced?" And then I can start
0:23:52my way into finding a different mood tracking app. But I just feel like there is for me
0:23:56just this one thing that if they change. And what I would like is for there to be more
0:24:01options but in lieu of more options just allowing me to by default type whatever I want into
0:24:08a text field which is a thing they do offer but only when you tap a button to then add
0:24:13more context. If there was just an empty text field there where I could just type whatever
0:24:17I wanted this thing would be ideal I think. In its current state I think this is a good
0:24:22first attempt and baking it into the system having notifications that can grab me during
0:24:27the day like by and large a lot of the basics are there but I think it's just missing
0:24:31that one little thing.
0:24:32B: It's interesting to hear those thoughts. Last time we had a conversation about this
0:24:39mood tracker which I didn't like and then you sort of talked me around last show of
0:24:44like "Oh how would you use this?" and I said "Oh Mike's making some interesting
0:24:47points." When I go to edit the show and I'm re-listening to the conversation I got mad
0:24:53all over again and I was having that experience of "Past Gray! Why are you letting Mike
0:24:58talk you into this?" It's a very funny thing to be in that disagreement with yourself
0:25:05on such a short period of time. I don't know. I'm trying to articulate what is going
0:25:13on in my mind about this app because it really is sticking something with me and I think
0:25:18what I'm trying to like narrow down here is we also brush up against this when we
0:25:23talk about the theme system journal of "You use it in a different way than I do." I
0:25:29focus on the gratitude stuff and you will often mention like writing down things that
0:25:36aren't going well or things that are bothering you and it always kind of like sticks in my
0:25:41brain of like "I don't like that." But that totally works for you. That's the
0:25:46point of the whole product is like that works for you. That's great. So what is my problem
0:25:51with this app is I feel like there's just a big difference between someone like you
0:25:56like a smart self-aware person who thinks about this stuff a bunch. Part of your job
0:26:02is to literally think about this stuff and intentionally choosing a tool and using it
0:26:07in a way that it works well for you. And I guess on the flip side of that I look
0:26:11like at this app and it's a bit like an epidemiological problem like you're going
0:26:17to just suddenly roll out to millions of people a mood tracker. And so even if there are people
0:26:25this could work for I'm concerned that like on average I think the way this thing is set
0:26:32up is bad for people. And trying to articulate it it's like I've always kind of had this
0:26:39rule for the internet which is what you pay attention to you grow. And so everyone knows
0:26:47this experience with the algorithms right like you click on a couple of news things
0:26:52and then guess what you've just grown in your world. You've grown the presence of
0:26:56news right. You start watching some beekeeping videos and guess what suddenly like it's
0:27:00all beekeeping videos like this this way of like what you pay attention to is what you
0:27:05grow and everyone can see that really directly with the algorithm. But I think it's also
0:27:11just true in your life like what you pay attention to is what you grow. The more you pay attention
0:27:18to a thing whatever it is in your life the more you become the kind of person who pays
0:27:24attention to that thing. And I just I just really worry about the negative side of this
0:27:32app precisely because it just says how are you feeling right now and I really don't
0:27:38like this workflow of like I'm feeling very unpleasant and then you say that I'm angry
0:27:43and anxious and then you say next what are you angry and anxious about and then you have
0:27:47to pick the things oh my family and my friends right and you select those two boxes. I mean
0:27:53I don't know maybe people are just much more internally unaware of their own feelings than
0:28:00I estimate they are but I just feel like focusing in that way you're growing your own attention
0:28:09to that thing and I just worry about like it could start like tiny reinforcement loops
0:28:17in people's heads particularly around the social stuff I just find quite concerning
0:28:22of like yeah family and friends and co-workers could just be annoying in life and I just
0:28:29I think like rolling this out to millions of people I think they're like lots of times
0:28:34people are gonna do that thing where it's like oh they pick I'm feeling annoyed at this
0:28:38person and you've just kind of like grown that thought a little stronger in your own
0:28:44mind like you grow what you pay attention to and it's again this could also just entirely
0:28:50be because of my experience with how frustratingly effective gratitude journaling is that just
0:28:56like just paying attention to something like this cup of coffee smells nice like just grows
0:29:04appreciation very clearly and very strongly so I think maybe I'm over tuned to worry about
0:29:10the opposite but I still feel like I've been playing around with this app and I've been
0:29:16just trying to see what it is and trying to articulate my thoughts it's like every time
0:29:20I interact with it I hate it more and I worry more about it just again not for any individual
0:29:28person but Apple just works on such a scale I think it's like a slight nudge for the whole
0:29:35population in an averagely bad direction and I think the other part of that as well which
0:29:44is just concerning to me is also like with so much of the health app that I also have
0:29:50increasingly large number of things to complain about where does this translate into action
0:29:56is is my other concern like simply logging is not action.
0:30:02Well they did say I mean and I don't know but they did say that they would point people
0:30:07towards questionnaires and resources I think probably if you're consistently saying you're
0:30:12feeling bad in some way or another would be my assumption.
0:30:15Yeah but I fully expect it's a you see TV shows do this as well it's I feel like it's
0:30:21a kind of…
0:30:22Please contact a such and such person if you did it.
0:30:25It feels like covering themselves and also the thing with with the mood tracking is that's
0:30:32too far of a step right if your app says you need to go to therapy for most people that's
0:30:39like a really far step to do especially just on their own because their phone is telling
0:30:45them and like I was looking at some of the other mood trackers I was looking at Dalio
0:30:49so I have a friend who uses Dalio and was really liking it I was kind of because of
0:30:53this topic I was asking like what do you like about this or what does it do this different
0:30:56and again maybe it's because it's not Apple maybe it's because it's a smaller
0:31:00company and they're less concerned about all of the implications of this stuff but
0:31:04they do the thing that I wish Apple would do which is like straight up give you a correlation.
0:31:09In between these two things your mood is heavily impacted by did you go outside today but I
0:31:17just worry that for people it's going to be a place to merely reinforce negative thoughts
0:31:25without clear but also small tractable actions to take like going outside makes a big difference
0:31:34or like all of the things that your phone knows about you I feel like it could just
0:31:39make little nudges in those directions but it just seems like Apple is like never gonna
0:31:44do that they're just never showing you a graph that correlates one thing with another
0:31:49so in summary I just really don't like this thing now that we're recording the show
0:31:55I'm going to turn it off and try not to think about it but it is just silently in
0:32:01the back of my mind you know partly because we do have that theme system journal and we've
0:32:05talked about this kind of self-improvement stuff like I just I care a lot about people
0:32:13living good and happy lives like it's you know it's not a thing that we talk about
0:32:19a ton directly but it is something that comes up on the show it's like how do you make
0:32:24yourself better how do you improve how can you just be happier with your life it matters
0:32:31a lot to me that the audience can like move in a right direction and those are always
0:32:38the best messages to get from people is like impacts that you've had on people in a positive
0:32:43direction so I care a lot about this stuff and I just I just really worry about this
0:32:51one right so I have two things okay for you here talk me out of this please I'm not
0:32:56going to talk you out of it because I don't think I can but in the state of mind area
0:33:01of the health app which is where you access the the mood tracking there is a button that
0:33:06says show in charts and when you press on that you get a couple of things you get over
0:33:12the week months six months or years you can choose to look at all of the events that you've
0:33:17logged and you can see the breakdown of your daily moods and your momentary emotions they
0:33:22then have a button called associations where you can then see like what you thought about
0:33:26each of the categories meaning like partner money friends all of those things I was talking
0:33:31about earlier on there's another button called life factors where it shows you on a couple
0:33:36of charts you're very pleasant to very unpleasant tracked entries as little dots and then you
0:33:42have a chart underneath and it will let you compare your emotional state to exercise mindful
0:33:50minutes the amount of sleep that you've got and the time you've had in daylight okay that
0:33:53is good yeah that is not doing nothing like it is doing some layering of information that
0:34:00you've provided with other stuff that the health app can know about you I think the
0:34:06reason why I was just kind of blowing past this is because as you were describing it
0:34:09I'm looking at on my phone I'm going like where is this and I realize oh of course it's
0:34:13directly above where I go to log the thing it shows time and daylight exercise minutes
0:34:18and sleep last last night sleep was particularly brutal so maybe that's why I'm feeling very
0:34:23grumpy right now I know that it layers but I still think there's something different
0:34:27between like layering like you draw the conclusion and them drawing the conclusion and and saying
0:34:36like we know this well this is something that we want from them in a bunch of areas right
0:34:40as we said before like this idea of like your heart rate changed and say okay like is this
0:34:47good or bad like can you let me know but so that's one point but I wanted to just state
0:34:51that like it does do I think more than a lot of areas of the health app of actually taking
0:34:56two pieces of information and putting them on a chart together so I actually think it
0:35:00is better than other areas I will agree I will concede that point the other one is I
0:35:04just want to state like what the way you've explained about how this makes you feel I
0:35:08understand it and it makes sense to me but it is not how I feel right right and so like
0:35:14I just want to like put that out there of like just you know and I'm sure you're aware
0:35:18of this but just to like state this clearly on the show of like walk me through it again
0:35:23like please do this kind of thing helps me because sometimes all I know is I'm feeling
0:35:29something but I don't know what it is but I have a feeling like this morning I woke
0:35:36up and I was feeling very anxious and worried and I had to sit and because I've gotten better
0:35:42at this of like taking a check for myself of like why am I feeling this way like what
0:35:49is the thing and then I could end up thinking about it I worked out what it was then I made
0:35:55a note because I needed to talk to you about it and so I spoke to you about it and now
0:36:00I feel better but it was it's only because I have gotten better because of the work that
0:36:04I've done with mood tracking and with therapy and stuff like that of like being able to
0:36:09label my feelings because I very frequently have feelings more than I know what they are
0:36:17or like where they're coming from and so an app like this it forces me to reflect and
0:36:23that is helpful now I understand what you're saying about like reflecting on negative things
0:36:28could make you feel worse but the negative things are still happening anyway so there
0:36:34can be a value I think of like say negative about friends and it's forcing me to say I'm
0:36:39feeling better with my friends when I do stuff like that sometimes I'm like yeah but they're
0:36:44not so bad like they're annoying me today but tomorrow you know like it makes me like
0:36:50assess a little bit more deeply like why I'm feeling a certain way because I get like that
0:36:55this morning I was in a group chat and someone frustrated me in the group chat and I was
0:36:59annoyed about it and then later on it's like no you know what like they're just living
0:37:04their life they're doing their thing it's not against me but it affects me sure but
0:37:10it's not they're not doing it to affect me I'm just like collateral damage in the decision
0:37:15that they've made they don't even know it's going to affect me but it does and so like
0:37:19these are the kinds of things that like being able to reflect on my feelings more help me
0:37:25label them contextualize them and move on rather than necessarily being like about them
0:37:32like weeks and weeks and weeks but I think though that there is a spectrum of people
0:37:37between me and you and different people are going to feel differently about the way this
0:37:42is and realistically this tool is maybe for more people like me than people like you.
0:37:48Yeah I think so trust me I'm aware that I'm a bit of an outlier in this conversation I'm
0:37:55the weirder one I think you're the much more normal person in this conversation I do just
0:38:00find it just very strange to try to internalize what you mean by a sentence of like having
0:38:07a feeling and you don't know what it is like I just I cannot even conceptualize what that
0:38:14means like it's very strange to me but but if I if I try to internalize that as like
0:38:19oh that's a state of existence that could be then yes maybe getting a notification that
0:38:26at that moment forces me to try to clarify what like a like a collection of physical
0:38:35associations into an emotion I don't even I don't even know but like I guess if you
0:38:41are unaware that you're having a an unclear emotion perhaps being forced to clarify that
0:38:49is helpful in and of itself taking that on board I think I could understand that and
0:38:54and and again it's like oh Mike's Mike's talking me back into like maybe this is good maybe
0:38:58I should be less concerned if I think I'm just an outlier in this conversation.
0:39:03I mean look I don't know but my my gut suggests that you are.
0:39:07Yeah whoever at Apple is working on this thing the one that really says to me more than anything
0:39:13like this app is not made for me is when you go like how do you feel right now and it starts
0:39:18in the middle it says neutral which again for me is like 95% of the time would be my
0:39:24answer if I click next it's the only one that has a very different set of tags so it
0:39:30says what best describes this feeling content calm peaceful and I look at that and I think
0:39:40no one who feels neutral would have those three as the only three options.
0:39:45Well you see this is where I disagree with you if you're neutral they are like the perfect
0:39:50descriptors like if you're feeling neutral what else would you be feeling?
0:39:55Do you know what I want to have as an option?
0:39:58Neutral that's what one of those tags it's like why do you want the room cold I would
0:40:01like the room cold how do you feel right now I feel neutral.
0:40:04I guess in that situation I believe you can just log the feeling you don't actually have
0:40:09to put anything so like you could do that because I've done that right and like in these
0:40:13situations where like I don't get to give it more you can just click next next done
0:40:19like you know when I can't find the words that I want but I would like to be able to
0:40:23log the words that I want but you can just log the feeling but yeah to me like if you're
0:40:27feeling neutral I see content calm peaceful indifferent and drained.
0:40:32Oh you've drained that's very strange clearly here's the thing content calm and peaceful
0:40:38to be all register as positive feelings and drained would be a negative feeling.
0:40:43So is indifferent to me and indifferent I see it as a negative.
0:40:47Indifferent is the only one that should be in the neutral category right different indifferent
0:40:51is clearly a neutral thing right.
0:40:53I know what you're saying but I just don't really feel like being indifferent is like
0:40:57a good thing like to me that doesn't register as like a good emotion to be feeling.
0:41:04You're putting emotional valence on the word indifferent that doesn't belong there it's
0:41:08like oh I'm indifferent to two outcomes right like I have no preference between these two
0:41:12that's what that's what indifference is.
0:41:14Yeah but I think that a life led indifferent is a life not like it's not being lived like
0:41:19you've got to have an opinion about everything Greg come on good bad otherwise what's the
0:41:23point you know.
0:41:24No indifference should be your default state of being.
0:41:28No I'm very different.
0:41:31I'm team indifferent.
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0:43:36of this show and relay FM.
0:43:39In installing iOS 17 I have become a magsafe person I am a magsafe believer now.
0:43:45Oh is this what it finally took?
0:43:47It took standby standby standby mode yeah standby is super good I've really...
0:43:52Aren't you worried about the fires though Mike what about what about all that heat that's
0:43:55being produced by the magnets and the electricity isn't that isn't that concerning to you?
0:43:58I mean yeah it is concerning to me and also realistically I'm concerned about my battery
0:44:02health of my phone as well which I know has taken a dive I don't know if it's standby
0:44:05related but my battery health has gone down.
0:44:07I think that's the beta that's not the that's not the charging itself or I'd be very surprised
0:44:11if it was.
0:44:12You know wireless charging still not a super big fan of it but standby is worth it I'll
0:44:17take the risk of the fires maybe it will change the heat of the thermostat and it will be
0:44:21good you know what I mean?
0:44:22That's what you should do you should put your magsafe charger next to the thermostat.
0:44:25I'm also just realizing there's a thing that I that I've I think I've told you before but
0:44:28again I'll just it probably doesn't make you feel better to know that I put money in between
0:44:34my case and the phone so there's like a little bit of kindling there waiting for the charger
0:44:39to light.
0:44:41It hasn't caused a problem in all of these years but I just you know so you can sleep
0:44:45a little less comfortably at night know that my phone is always charging with like a tiny
0:44:49bit of money that's just waiting to catch fire.
0:44:51Just a little fire start.
0:44:53Just a little just a little kindling.
0:44:54Probably never hurt anybody.
0:44:56It's really interesting to hear you say that like you've been I don't know like a magsafe
0:45:00denier for 10 years now.
0:45:03You haven't wanted to do it but standby is the thing this got you over the hump?
0:45:09Because look for me I was already charging my phone fine like I had spent a decade finding
0:45:15the product that I liked to charge my phone and I found it to be very convenient.
0:45:19I was using a dock where I just pop it in and it was no problem.
0:45:22I wasn't like I was fumbling around for cables.
0:45:25I knew where the charging always was and it was just very easy.
0:45:28So the idea of having just a different kind of dock that was magnetic rather than place
0:45:33in it where it needs to be like that was just it was just a problem I didn't need to solve.
0:45:40But standby as a feature so like you know my phone is over there on my little Anker
0:45:45three in one cube which is a cool product that I have.
0:45:48Adorable.
0:45:49I've got one.
0:45:50I look at it right now and I have a timer from Timery and I have my weather as little
0:45:55widgets and they cycle through on their own sometimes I get a clock sometimes I get some
0:45:59photos you know or I can scroll over to the next one and see some like nice images that
0:46:04iOS is pulling out for me.
0:46:06Like it's just a very good feature to make my phone useful for the majority of my workday
0:46:13when it is sitting on a dock.
0:46:17Maybe that's what it is.
0:46:19The reason I was asking you is when I watched the presentation and they showed like we have
0:46:25this new thing standby where you put your phone on the dock and then it shows you this
0:46:29information in a beautiful way and in the presentation where it's like oh we also have
0:46:34like VR helmets right that was the only thing that also just stuck out into my mind after
0:46:39VR blew it away was like oh there's that standby thing and when I installed the beta I it's
0:46:44like I'm almost baffled by why do I love this feature so much like I think it's amazingly
0:46:51great but I like it so much I'm almost confused by why do I like this so much so like on this
0:46:59trip normally I just bring up with me a bunch of little wireless charging pads but I specifically
0:47:05brought that anchor cube over there because like I want to see standby in my hotel room
0:47:12it's like I just love it and yeah I mean for me most of the time it's just showing the
0:47:17weather or the clock and then I have the little battery progress meters and it's like man I
0:47:21just love seeing this it's great but it's almost baffling because it's simultaneously
0:47:28a little nothing of a feature but also having shown it to some other people everyone has
0:47:34the same reaction of like oh I absolutely love this.
0:47:37Well I mean it's why we like widgets right it's just like this is just like for the
0:47:41whenever your phone is charging it's just this like little permanent widget machine
0:47:45just always showing you something right which is interesting to you or helpful to you or
0:47:49useful to you or pretty in some way it's like I just think it's just very very good.
0:47:55I really do think you nailed it though it makes the phone useful all the time whereas
0:48:01in its default state it's not and like the lock screen widgets were halfway there but
0:48:07I guess the difference is with the lock screen widgets they're still only useful when you're
0:48:13holding the phone right before you open it to show you some information so you were already
0:48:17going to do something.
0:48:18It's not enough information even if like even though like you can have them on the
0:48:22always on which I did it's just too small.
0:48:25Yeah and yeah I want another row the four is infuriating but yeah I guess maybe that's
0:48:29what it is like oh I can just it's big and visible and again like those little those
0:48:35little battery circles I just love at a glance knowing oh I forgot to plug in my headphones
0:48:42like when I left the office and they're running low like it just it's really nice to be able
0:48:45to see that at a glance all the time so I'm also glad it finally got you on the on the
0:48:50MagSafe train and now you can now you can have fun with the whole world of MagSafe accessories
0:48:55of which there are a bazillion.
0:48:57Yeah because I'm well you know I'm still using my popsocket but I just take it off put it
0:49:01on the charger and then just when I pick up my phone just put the popsocket back on the
0:49:04back again and that has actually been something which has become very natural for me like
0:49:09I don't really think about it I'm happy with how that's going that I was worried that that
0:49:13was going to be frustrating but it hasn't been at all really.
0:49:16Yeah I do wonder if that will eventually go away as a habit for you because that does
0:49:20seem like an annoying extra step but.
0:49:23But the utility I get out of the popsocket is worth it for me like the biggest thing
0:49:28that I love about popsockets now it's not even holding it it's how easy it is to watch
0:49:33a video which I watch a lot of.
0:49:35Oh to use it as a little stand?
0:49:36All the time.
0:49:38I will just say last thing on iOS 17 when I wrote the show notes a couple of days ago
0:49:43I wrote like this is this for me like the top feature of iOS 17 standby and I still
0:49:49think so but I'm getting more interactive widgets and there is some bananas stuff happening.
0:49:58Oh right because you're you get all the cool test flight invitations.
0:50:01I'm on a few betas and I know of there being some others that I'm not on but I know what's
0:50:06going on right with some developers and like people are doing things right.
0:50:12It's like you've got your ear to the ground.
0:50:14That's very exciting.
0:50:15Yeah there's some there is some stuff happening right now and it's I'm excited about it because
0:50:23with the original widgets it was like oh this is nice and then you'd start to see a few
0:50:27things like oh okay there's some cool stuff going on here but I feel like I'm seeing more
0:50:33really interesting things this time around than I even did with the original widgets
0:50:37when they came to iOS 15 or whatever it was.
0:50:41People are doing some really cool stuff and it seems like Apple kind of underplayed this
0:50:46system like what it was capable of like one of the biggest things that I have seen of
0:50:52just like an idea which I never even conceived of is I've seen a bunch of widgets that allow
0:50:58you to scroll through pages of information effectively.
0:51:02What so it's like they're like a pseudo stack of informational pages?
0:51:05So I'll use I'll use Timery as an example because Joe has been open like online about
0:51:11what he's building.
0:51:12I don't want you to break anyone's secrets here.
0:51:15So in Timery you can set up saved time tracking entries right so you can have a bunch of things
0:51:21that you'll save to timers that you can just fire off easily and he has had a widget of
0:51:26save timers for a while but it can only show an amount of timers in it right so you could
0:51:30say you could have five in there or whatever.
0:51:32Well he has the ability now in one of these widgets where you can check a box in the configuration
0:51:36of that widget to show pages so you for example would see four and then a little button to
0:51:42go to the next page of save timers.
0:51:46So it's one widget but you're able to load multiple views in that widget.
0:51:52I think that that it has been underplayed and I am very keen to see what developers
0:51:59have worked out what they can do.
0:52:01I completely forgot this even existed as a feature the interactive widgets like I just
0:52:05I just didn't remember this at all and I think oh no I have just spent a huge amount of time
0:52:12trying to redo the configuration for all of my widgets for all of the home screens for
0:52:18all of my focus modes which ended up being like quite a lot of work to put them all the
0:52:22way that I want them to be and it feels like oh right I forgot every single widget is going
0:52:27to be completely overhauled and this is going to just throw all of my work right up into
0:52:32the air to be redone again but that's very exciting.
0:52:35So I've been working on something for a while that I'm very excited about that is very far
0:52:41away from now.
0:52:43Relay FM just turned nine years old.
0:52:44It was in the 18th of August.
0:52:49Nine years old.
0:52:50That's horrifying.
0:52:51Nine is one away from ten.
0:52:53To celebrate our tenth anniversary we're going to be doing a live show similar to what we
0:52:59did for our fifth anniversary.
0:53:01We did that in San Francisco.
0:53:03We had a large host of Relay FM personalities come in and we played a game of Family Feud
0:53:09or Family Fortunes if you're in the UK it's the same game different name and we had a
0:53:13great time.
0:53:14Well we're doing it again.
0:53:16Similar makeup for our tenth anniversary show next year we're going to be having a live
0:53:20show and we're going to be playing Family Feud but it will especially be called Family
0:53:26Fortunes because it's going to be in London.
0:53:30Live in London.
0:53:32Live in London.
0:53:33You can go to relay.fm/london to go and get tickets.
0:53:37Tickets are available now.
0:53:38It's going to be on Saturday July 27th 2024.
0:53:42It's going to feature many of your favorite relay FM hosts.
0:53:46We have a bunch of hosts here in the UK and there are going to be a bunch of hosts that
0:53:50are going to be traveling in for it which I'm super excited about.
0:53:53I cannot even truly describe how much this means to me.
0:54:00We will be able to do a show in the city I grew up in and all my family will be there
0:54:06to see what I do.
0:54:08One of the things I keep mentioning this to friends when I talk about it which is like
0:54:13my family know what I do for a living right?
0:54:18They're aware of it but I feel like no one really understands like what it is you know
0:54:24but I feel like being in a beautiful theater and coming out on stage and people applaud
0:54:32then they'll understand what I do for a living you know?
0:54:35I feel like it might get it across a little bit that there are people that listen to the
0:54:40podcast that I make and enjoy them you know?
0:54:43Rather than it just being like Michael does that thing that he does.
0:54:47Do you notice I said Michael too because no one in my family calls me Mike.
0:54:51Everyone calls me Michael.
0:54:52So Michael's over there doing the stuff that he does.
0:54:55We're also going to be doing it in one of my favorite venues in London.
0:54:58It's a place called Hackney Empire.
0:55:00Gorgeous theater.
0:55:01Absolutely gorgeous theater.
0:55:02So a few months ago I went to a show at Hackney Empire and we knew that we wanted to do the
0:55:08live show in London.
0:55:09We've been talking about it for a long time and I was at the Empire and I was like yeah
0:55:13this is I want to do it here.
0:55:15Like this is where I want to do it.
0:55:17Like because Hackney Empire looks as beautiful as any theater you could imagine in London
0:55:23right?
0:55:24And it's in East London.
0:55:26It's not in the West End so it's something we can afford to do.
0:55:31Also it means that we can get it at a good time right?
0:55:34Like a Saturday evening.
0:55:36Not all theaters are going to be able to provide you with this.
0:55:39We looked at some of the theaters in the West End and it could be like well you could have
0:55:42two o'clock in the afternoon on a Wednesday.
0:55:44It's like that's no time.
0:55:46I don't want to do that.
0:55:48I am so incredibly excited about this.
0:55:52If you're in the United Kingdom you should buy a ticket and come to this show.
0:55:57Prove that we should do more shows in the United Kingdom.
0:56:01If you're in Europe, hell if you're in America come over and see it.
0:56:05This show is going to be awesome.
0:56:06We're taking a slight departure from other live shows and we are focusing on making it
0:56:12the best it can be just for the people in the room.
0:56:15We will be endeavoring to record this show and if we do get a good recording of it, we're
0:56:19working with the theater on this, we will be releasing it to everyone.
0:56:23But I really want to make this a special event for the people that can make it.
0:56:26So please buy a ticket and come and see us do our thing in July 2024.
0:56:31I think that's a good decision because when you do this kind of thing you always have
0:56:34to ultimately decide like who is the audience for this thing and when you first told me
0:56:42about this idea of like it is for the people in the room that really clarifies a bunch
0:56:48of decisions like what are you going to do and so.
0:56:51Everything has always been more complicated because we have tried to have like audio and
0:56:56a live stream and like no we're just going to do this.
0:57:01Video can't work in the space so we'd knock that one out.
0:57:05We're going to use the equipment that the technicians at the theater will provide for
0:57:09us which will make things way easier.
0:57:11It means that we don't need to bring all of our own gear which we have in the past.
0:57:14This is going to be more complicated because Steven has all of that and he'll be coming
0:57:18over from Memphis.
0:57:19It's just like it's just easier to just trust the technicians.
0:57:22They know what they're doing.
0:57:23They told us they'll be able to get an audio recording which I'm sure that they will
0:57:27but the best way to experience our 10th anniversary extravaganza is to be in one of these beautiful
0:57:33seats in this incredible theater in London and see it.
0:57:37And prove the viability of an in-person show in London and also I feel like got to buy
0:57:42a ticket so that Mike's family sees a packed theater in London.
0:57:48It totally is a thing of podcasting.
0:57:51It's a strange job because you have both of these things of like oh I'm talking to thousands
0:57:57and thousands of people but I'm also in a room all by myself all day right and I feel
0:58:05like that's the thing that you have and whenever you're explaining your job to people
0:58:09it's like well oh lots of people listen to me trust me it's like ah but when I look
0:58:14at you I see you just in a room by yourself.
0:58:16It doesn't seem like it so I want you to come out on stage to like a packed theater and
0:58:21I think we can do that.
0:58:22That's what I want.
0:58:23I would say like over the history of this show the Cortex's have provided me with many
0:58:27of these incredible life moments like I remember like the pug cons and stuff like that right
0:58:31where my booth lines were way longer and they were underestimated how many people were coming
0:58:36and it was awesome right for like the signings I would do and stuff like that.
0:58:39And I'm asking for another one and it is I want to feel the energy of 1,200 people
0:58:47inside of a theater like what does that feel like?
0:58:51Like I live an incredible life where a bunch of wild things happen to me.
0:58:55I don't know if I'll ever experience that thing again right.
0:58:58I want to feel what it's like to walk out onto a stage and have 1,200 people cheering
0:59:04like that feels like something that only a small few people in the world will ever experience
0:59:11and I am pleading you to give me that experience because we can do it gang.
0:59:17We can do it.
0:59:18Yeah I'm gonna say Cortex's in Europe buy a ticket come see the show.
0:59:23Cortex's in America make a trip out of it.
0:59:26London an amazing city to visit easily one of the best cities on earth totally worth
0:59:31it just for a trip on its own and when Mike comes out on that stage for his bomb I want
0:59:38you to go like wild right with like excitement and applause.
0:59:42It's also just I cannot believe that this is finally happening because I you know years
0:59:48ago you vaguely mentioned to me like when the date of relay FM's 10th anniversary was
0:59:55you know and it's like oh I put that on my calendar or whatever and it's like ah but
0:59:59that will never come and it's like here we are it's 10 years later like you know you
1:00:05and Steven have been running like a successful podcasting company for 10 years it's just
1:00:12it's both crazy like how fast time has gone and also like how much you guys have done
1:00:17and it's it's great to be doing like a live show as as part of like a real celebration
1:00:24and acknowledgement of that accomplishment.
1:00:27That's what it's really going to be and that's what I'm you know we will we were concerned
1:00:31when we decided to do it in London that maybe we'd have like a much smaller group of hosts
1:00:36that would be able to participate but we've been super happy that there are a bunch of
1:00:40people that like want to make the trip and so like the roster to be determined right
1:00:45like that is to be announced situation right now but it is going to be a fantastic time
1:00:51full of awesome people we're gonna have a great time and we're purposely doing the kind
1:00:55of show where like you could bring a friend or a partner with you we're not going to be
1:01:00doing like let's talk about the newest thing in technology we'll be doing like if you've
1:01:05seen Family Feud you've seen Family Fortunes we'll be putting out like a poll to people
1:01:09if we were to answer questions like what's your favorite movie you know like all that
1:01:13kind of stuff and then the hosts just have to try and guess what the audience say like
1:01:16it's a very good format for fun times and I'm really looking forward to it and I cannot
1:01:22wait to host in my own city oh man I'm so excited.
1:01:26Relay.fm/London it's the Relay FM 10th anniversary show live in London. Tickets on sale now.
1:01:36This episode of Cortex is brought to you by Fitbaud. When you want to change your fitness
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1:03:09I really love the Apple Watch integration so when I'm doing my Fitbaud exercises I can
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1:03:51In this episode I was talking about feeling a little like, you know, having feelings,
1:03:56big feelings. Mike's having big feelings. Anxiety and stress and stuff. Past few weeks
1:04:01there's a bunch of things going on, right? So the aforementioned live show, Getting That
1:04:06Ready, September is like around the corner. It's fundraising time for St Jude and Podcastathon.
1:04:12As we approach the end of the year, Cortex brand almost explodes with energy for like
1:04:19any other physical product business. I posted about this on threads the other day that I
1:04:25realised that like if you run a physical products business your entire year is the holidays?
1:04:31Yes I know. I feel like we just recovered from the holidays and now we are preparing
1:04:37for the holidays again. That end of the year time for any business is like there's always
1:04:43a lot going on, especially if you have like a product that's focused around, you know,
1:04:49getting a push for new year like we have at the theme system journal. So like I've got
1:04:53a bunch of stuff going on and I have like a pretty hectic personal life right now. We
1:04:59have mother-in-law in town and we've got like a bunch of things going on as well. Just finishing
1:05:04off a renovation. I just feel very overwhelmed but I think a lot of it is coming from running
1:05:13two businesses. Yeah, yeah. This is the thing where this year we've sort of talked about
1:05:21it before but like Cortex brand has become very really real this year for us which also
1:05:28beads like I'm sure we'll talk about like very really terrifying with some of the decisions
1:05:32that we have to make with regards to it and I mean yes I have another business but like
1:05:41I don't run two businesses in the same way that you do. Relay is just a completely different
1:05:47beast and then to have Cortex brand on top of it like the last quarter of the year is
1:05:54always the busiest quarter of the year and every year it comes around like you tell me
1:05:58what your schedule is like for the last three or four months and I get anxiety by proxy
1:06:03just listening to you but if we think about your 10 years of being in the business it's
1:06:10like oh every final quarter got like 20 to 50 percent busier every year but it feels
1:06:16like for you this year it is like four times busier than it was last year or like there's
1:06:22four times as much stuff on the line so I honestly don't know how you're handling it
1:06:31at all.
1:06:32I didn't even lie just to put this into a little bit of context right so like obviously
1:06:38I do time tracking. I have in the first seven months of this year have tracked over twice
1:06:44the amount of hours for Cortex brand than I did all of last year which is quite quite
1:06:51growth yeah that's a really big growth and so I feel like that that is indicative of
1:06:56the efforts that we've been putting in this year we've done a lot more marketing a lot
1:07:01of stuff that no one's seen yet because we're just like trying to get more ducks in a row
1:07:07and we're working on new products and we're working on bigger strategy stuff and it's
1:07:13just like a lot of things that we're lining up for eventually right but there is just
1:07:18like a lot more of it happening than we've had in the past and at the moment like you
1:07:24know you're saying about like I write a good thing and a bad thing in my journal every
1:07:28day and the last couple of weeks my bad thing has been something along the lines of I'm
1:07:35behind or yeah my workload is too heavy right now and because this is also I'm not sacrificing
1:07:42my theme this year the year of the weekend it's been awesome and I look forward to talking
1:07:47about it in more detail at the end of the year I'm happy to hear that because I was
1:07:50wondering like is this the thing that's crumbling and I was I was hoping not so obviously we
1:07:55again we have this weird thing where it's like we don't talk to each other very much
1:07:59about our themes so it's like I don't really know but it's like boy I'm I was really hoping
1:08:03for you that you're not caving on that so I'm happy to hear that but it sure doesn't
1:08:08make things easier no because I'm not sacrificing my personal time and I'm adding more hobbies
1:08:13in and I'm adding more time with people in my life that I care about in person like I'm
1:08:17still doing all of those things and I think it is what is helping to smooth out the rough
1:08:23edges of my workload right now and like just like the pressure of the responsibilities
1:08:28that I have but also it does mean I have less time to potentially do all the things that
1:08:36I want to do right like work wise and so like I'm in this like tightrope walk right now
1:08:42of trying to manage all this stuff but it's like the tightrope walk within a tightrope
1:08:47walk which is there's two businesses it really feels like now more than ever there are two
1:08:54businesses yeah where like I felt like I had relay and then cortex brown was this thing
1:08:59we were working on yeah it's like a side project for both of us but yeah it's growing to not
1:09:05be that very fast yes in the sense of also that like I feel like we have like in this
1:09:12past week or so taken our first like risk yeah I'm not quite sure I agree with that
1:09:23but what else would it have been I feel like I would want to look well okay all right so
1:09:30so what's what's happening here is that we've just we're taking a really big bet with sidekick
1:09:37notepad stock ordering and it's like here we are again catching the eel right like inventory
1:09:45management and what are we going to do and spreadsheets can try to help you make decisions
1:09:50in normal times but we've been talking a lot about trying to make a big bet about not having
1:09:58a normal time in this last quarter with sidekick sales so like it'll be no surprise to anyone
1:10:06that's like okay ultimately I'm going to make a video promoting sidekick notepads and we're
1:10:12going to hope to sell a bunch of them there's also things that we can try with advertising
1:10:16and it is it is just the it's just the fact like you said of a product business we should
1:10:23expect that most of the business happens in the last quarter of the year and I don't know
1:10:30we've been talking for like two months seriously about how much of a bet do we take on this
1:10:38and I guess I was thinking oh we've taken bigger bets in the past on the theme system
1:10:43journal but I think I think yeah that's not comparable because there was just there was
1:10:53like less at risk in some ways whereas this time it's like boy ordering a big amount of
1:10:59stock is a huge amount of money to outlay and this this is where it's like we just don't
1:11:06have any real data to make a real decision on and we're just we're just guessing.
1:11:11So basically Gray's made two videos about the journal and each time we sold out of what
1:11:19we had available and so I don't want that to happen with the sidekick notepad. Yes.
1:11:26So when Gray makes a video and we publish the video and people see it maybe for the
1:11:30first time and they decide this looks cool I don't want to buy one I want them to be
1:11:34able to go to the website and buy one like yes and I want to do all we can to mitigate
1:11:40that because my feeling is it's fun and maybe cute for us with the journal when we couldn't
1:11:47keep it in stock and we came up with the eel metaphor right of like you know we are we
1:11:51just can't get our heads around this but I feel like at a certain point if we want to
1:11:55be taken seriously we have to be able to control our inventory. Yeah yeah. I feel like you
1:12:01can't just keep being in this scenario and I know that there are businesses that run
1:12:05this way and it is I and I understand the potential thinking that is an effective marketing
1:12:11tactic and I think that it worked well for us with the journal I think that because we
1:12:16kept selling out we did sell maybe more faster initially because people were like I don't
1:12:22know this but I can see there is an argument right that like every time we put them in
1:12:26stock we would sell out and it might have been like a thing where some people were like
1:12:31if I'm interested in one of these I have to try and get one as soon as I can get one because
1:12:35these guys can't keep them in stock right and I I understand that as like you know everyone
1:12:40ever about my age remembers the Nintendo Wii and that was always a thing with the Nintendo
1:12:44Wii Nintendo couldn't keep it in stock and there was always rumors around like were they
1:12:48stock limiting it so it created hype. I just I just don't believe like okay I'm just I'm
1:12:53sorry I just have to interject here because I just refuse to accept this as a valid business
1:12:58strategy with the only asterisk of like is your business in fashion in some way I think
1:13:05that's the only world where this is really true. You're creating a supply demand issue
1:13:11and then that can create some element of scarcity and that scarcity can drive interest or prices
1:13:17right like it's a thing that happens. It is what I'm saying it is a thing that either people
1:13:23believe is a tactic or is a tactic or is a mixture of the both or whatever but that wasn't
1:13:27what we wanted to do. Yeah it wasn't what we wanted to do at all. I wanted to sell one
1:13:31to every single person that could buy one. That's how I feel with the psychic notepad
1:13:35this time so we have placed an order which is like stupid. It makes me physically uncomfortable
1:13:42to think about. Yeah it really does but it's like I have to keep reminding myself of the
1:13:47thing that you're saying right now which is we are placing this order to be guaranteed
1:13:55that we don't run out of stock. But we also don't know that as well. I know I know. But
1:14:02like we're taking the best bet we can. But the thing is if we run out of stock if we
1:14:08run out of stock I will be content that we did all we could. If we sell out of the amount
1:14:13that we're buying it will I mean look it will be incredible for the business right if we
1:14:18sell out of the amount that we're buying because we are overstocking by such a large amount
1:14:22if we do I will be content that we could not realistically afford to buy more of them.
1:14:28Yeah we literally couldn't have bought any more. There wasn't more that Cortex brand
1:14:33could do to prevent this and so like that's just gonna be the way it goes and then we've
1:14:39learned another lesson. Yeah I guess that's also part of the feeling of like I know that
1:14:45that's true but it also means we've like once again done the thing of like oh put it all
1:14:52on black roll the wheel but it's like yes we're doing that because like what we really
1:14:57don't want to do I'm also talking to myself here in case it's not obvious because what
1:15:01we don't want to do is we don't want to sell out. That's very bad I just don't believe
1:15:09in the marketing of like oh you generate hype so you sell more. No selling more is selling
1:15:14more not generating hype. Well because also this product takes a long while to produce.
1:15:20From order to delivery is about 15 weeks. Yes. It's a really long time to be out of
1:15:27stock right like it's a really really long time. And as always the huge asterisk with
1:15:32that is 15 weeks if everything goes right and things can always go wrong and then it
1:15:37could be months. We don't know if this if the paper will even be available and like
1:15:41we had that like when we made the original set we had to wait an extra few weeks because
1:15:45they needed to make the paper so we like the coffee cup paper had to be made because the
1:15:52amount that we wanted they didn't have. But as I say like if we sell out then I'll know
1:15:58that we did all we could and then it's just a case of like we've learned a valuable thing
1:16:03because what we genuinely do not know and I don't think anybody can tell us is like
1:16:09a video that gets seen by half a million to say a million people. Let's say half a million
1:16:14people. Say half a million. I'm just looking at the two right so the original journal video
1:16:17you did was half a million the other one was 1.6 million so I'm just saying let's just
1:16:22say half a million right. Yeah I predict that this video will be much closer to the first
1:16:26journal video than the second journal video. I think you're right. But let's just say half
1:16:29a million then right. If 500,000 people watch a video about a product how many buy it? I
1:16:37have no idea. Exactly. We don't know. But like we will be attempting to take another
1:16:43step in understanding what that number is. And like look I understand right completely
1:16:50different product completely different price point completely different thing. I don't
1:16:54I genuinely can't tell you which one or the other makes more sense to buy right like the
1:17:01theme system journal was a cheaper product than it is a cheaper product than the psychic
1:17:06notepad and it has like a whole story around it that you can you know you you build your
1:17:10life around this theme but to buy the journal you have to decide you want to set a yearly
1:17:15theme. Yeah there's like an onboarding process. It's a pro and a con for its story. Psychic
1:17:20notepad is a more expensive product but it also can be used by anyone. So like the amount
1:17:26of people like the barrier to entry of imagining this product in your life is way lower I think
1:17:32than the theme system journals is. Yeah it's interesting for me so this is this is also
1:17:37like what's so nerve-wracking about this from a business perspective is just the YouTube
1:17:42variable of like you just never know how much a thing gets seen and how much it gets resonated
1:17:47with people. This is also why it's like placing a big bet on the stock is terrifying because
1:17:53you just never know what's going to happen on the other end. And I'm gonna put a call
1:17:57out to the cortexes because like at this point we've sold a ton of psychic notepads and people
1:18:04are using them and I would like even more feedback from people who are using it and
1:18:10who like it what is it that you like about it. Okay. As you said the theme system journal
1:18:16you can use it in different ways but there's a very particular concept behind it. We just
1:18:21had dinner the other evening with our friend underscore widget Smith and it was interesting
1:18:26I was talking to him about using it and it's like oh he laid out a way that he uses the
1:18:31sidekick which I would have never thought about and I was like oh that's really interesting.
1:18:36I feel like I'm in the process of trying to like gather up since there's a less clear
1:18:41message about this what is it that resonates with people and like I would just love to
1:18:48know like the details the specifics if you bought it and you like it what exactly why
1:18:56I have some thoughts about that I have a bunch of directions like where do I think I'm gonna
1:18:59go with this but like that conversation with underscore was just like very unexpectedly
1:19:05enlightening in a interesting way for me of like oh I just would never have thought of
1:19:09that that is literally the opposite of the way I use it and so he kind of had a better
1:19:15way to use it than the way I use it I was like oh that's genius. I'm gonna get the calls
1:19:20to action so you can either go to cortexfeedback.com and you can just leave us some follow up there
1:19:25or some feedback there about it or on threads or Instagram we are @cortexbrand you can send
1:19:31us a post on threads you can send us a message on Instagram and we'll collate it together
1:19:36I will say great I will share with you in our notion I did ask for some testimonials
1:19:40recently because we're looking to do some stuff with marketing we have a very beautiful
1:19:44like template for posting testimonials which I will share with you there were some fascinating
1:19:48things in there but we do want more of them so please send them to us at these places.
1:19:54And also those places because this is another one of these things of we're trying to grow
1:19:58the business in a bunch of different ways and so listen straight up guys like we just
1:20:03want bigger numbers on Instagram and threads like that matters that's an important thing
1:20:08give us a follow on those platforms because I think it really matters.
1:20:11We're very chill like we don't post a ton it's fun I'm also like I'm still living up
1:20:16to the original bargain of the Cortex brand Instagram account I do post pictures of unreleased
1:20:22things there every now and again on our stories I give little hints of some stuff that we're
1:20:26working on so if you do care about that it is a good place to get some of that information
1:20:31and this is one of those things so I mentioned like marketing earlier right so like one of
1:20:34the other projects that I'm managing is like trying to beef up and sort out like our Instagram
1:20:42page and the story and the story we tell around our business and stuff like that which is
1:20:46like a whole other big thing.
1:20:48So Carrie who is chief advertising officer at Relay FM is also helping us with marketing
1:20:54a Cortex brand she's very good at all that kind of stuff too along with all the other
1:20:57things she's good at and one of the things that she told me about Instagram is she's
1:21:01like your Instagram profile page is like your storefront and I was like oh that's really
1:21:06smart and so like we've done a bunch of stuff of tidying that up and we're going to do some
1:21:09more but for me one of the things that I know that I do all the time is I go to an Instagram
1:21:14account and see how many followers there are and it's like an indication of whether that
1:21:18business is real or not.
1:21:20Yup it's like subscribers on a YouTube channel it's just a first check number to verify oh
1:21:25do other people find this useful so we want to bump that number.
1:21:29Please.
1:21:32Please make Mike's life slightly less stressful by having those numbers look better.
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1:23:38I feel like in talking through that, I hope is giving an idea to people of like, this
1:23:44is just one of the things in one of my businesses that I am dealing with right now, which is
1:23:50like they're really big things, right?
1:23:54Like operating a live show for 1200 people in London in 10 months time.
1:23:59God knows if we'll sell the tickets, right?
1:24:01Like we think we will.
1:24:02It's why we took the bet, but we we've never done a live show outside of America before.
1:24:06So we don't know.
1:24:07Just the first time you do anything, it's like the unknown unknowns are everywhere.
1:24:13You just have no idea what you're going to run into as an unexpected problem.
1:24:17Yeah.
1:24:18It's just like, yeah, you've got the live show.
1:24:21Again, the podcastathon, which like every year grows in new and interesting ways in
1:24:27complexity is like,
1:24:29Yes.
1:24:30And we are always growing the complexity of it once again.
1:24:32We'll talk about it in the next couple of weeks because we don't know until September.
1:24:36I feel sick already about it being even more.
1:24:38It's like you've got so much going on, Mike.
1:24:40But yeah, there's the pressure of raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for charity,
1:24:44which we want to keep doing forever.
1:24:46But it's like it takes a lot of work now.
1:24:48You know, like thankfully with the live show and the podcastathon, these are actually both
1:24:53areas that Steven manages, especially the podcastathon.
1:24:57But they're still in my mind, right?
1:25:00And sometimes that's the stuff like, you know, I don't have to put the hours in, but it's
1:25:05still like there in the brain.
1:25:07And I haven't even spoken about the fact that it's like iPhone time.
1:25:10Oh, God.
1:25:11Right.
1:25:12Yeah, of course.
1:25:13I was talking to a friend about this yesterday and they were like, oh, and it's like iPhone
1:25:18time is busy for you.
1:25:19I was like, honestly, I don't even think about that anymore.
1:25:21Like I just roll with that.
1:25:23Like there's that's just happening anyway.
1:25:26And like I have no control over that.
1:25:28So I'll just deal with that as it starts to occur to me.
1:25:31Right.
1:25:32Like, that's so funny.
1:25:34It is so funny that like at this point, how low in my like what I consider it to be like
1:25:39a like a quote unquote priority to be of like my attention where I'm just like the iPhones
1:25:45come in.
1:25:46I know it's come in whenever it comes is when it comes.
1:25:48And like the machine is oiled well enough right now that it just handles that.
1:25:55Like it's so funny how the priorities have shifted.
1:25:58They're like, I have these other things going on and it's like everything else is just hitting
1:26:04higher.
1:26:05Like, you know, September is one thing for me.
1:26:07Top priority without a doubt is St. Jude.
1:26:10I will put every hour I can into that and we'll just get it done.
1:26:14And it's so funny that like the iPhone comes and it's like, all right, I'll just squeeze
1:26:18that in.
1:26:19Like when I'm not raising money, I'll just like put these episodes in the most like important
1:26:24episodes of the year of upgrading connected.
1:26:27They just like go in there and it's fine.
1:26:29Yeah.
1:26:30The most, the most important event for the whole of the network is like, yeah.
1:26:33And also I'll do that.
1:26:35I guess I'd never really thought about it before, but it's a bit like this time of year
1:26:40is so busy because presumably what has basically happened over time is that with the iPhone
1:26:46being the tent pole event, it's also the time when you knew you could be most certain that
1:26:51most people are paying attention and tuning in and want to hear stuff.
1:26:54So you started doing these other events, but the other events have, it's like they've completely
1:27:00grown to like over consume the original event that they grew out of.
1:27:05It's like, oh, they were just tiny branches off of the trunk of the iPhone, but it's like,
1:27:10no, now these things are the massive tree.
1:27:14And the original thing from which they sprouted is just like a tiny little side branch.
1:27:18It's like, oh, oh my.
1:27:19The iPhone also happens.
1:27:21It's not even in the list that I wrote in the show notes.
1:27:26Yeah, it's not even in the list.
1:27:28And the funny thing is I didn't think of it either looking at like, oh, what is Mike so
1:27:32busy with?
1:27:33It's like, it didn't even cross my mind of iPhone season.
1:27:36It's like, nope.
1:27:37Didn't even make the top five list for what is going on in Mike's life that he's, he's
1:27:41so busy with.
1:27:44So like, how are you feeling buddy?
1:27:47I mean, I'm stressed, right?
1:27:49And for me, a time like this, it's not necessarily just the hours of work.
1:27:57While they are increasing in some ways, it's not like they're unmanageable.
1:28:00It's just the way that it all makes me feel, which is like, there's just a lot of different
1:28:06things riding on all of these elements.
1:28:10What's riding on the 10th anniversary show is there being a sold out theater.
1:28:15Yes.
1:28:16And there is money on the line of course, too, right, of like hiring the theater.
1:28:21And then the podcastathon is there's just expectation that we set about wanting to do
1:28:27a good job.
1:28:28Like I want to, I cannot stress enough, like the Saint Jude put no pressure on us to raise
1:28:35any amount of money, right?
1:28:37Like it just doesn't happen.
1:28:39They're just happy that we're involved and wanting to do anything.
1:28:42But me and Steven want to do a good job every time.
1:28:47We just want to, because it means so much.
1:28:49It's the only reason to do it.
1:28:51Like if you didn't want to do a good job, you would drop this as a project.
1:28:54Like there'd be no point in doing this as a half-assed project.
1:28:59You're either like doing it or you're not doing it.
1:29:02And so like we just keep wanting to like raise loads of money and like make that a thing
1:29:07that continues and that we can all keep doing this thing as a community and like move this
1:29:14project forward.
1:29:15And then you've got like the potential future of our business isn't like riding on this,
1:29:23but it would certainly be helped if we've made the right decision.
1:29:27Where like if we've made the wrong decision, it's just going to take a long time to resolve
1:29:33itself.
1:29:34But the problem, I think this is also a case where like you and I got together in person
1:29:40and we had to just like talk in person all freaking day through just a bunch of stuff.
1:29:47And I think part of it, yeah, it's like if we guessed wrong here, it's not that we'd
1:29:53go bankrupt or anything, but I think what I hadn't appreciated before is if this goes
1:30:01wrong, if we like wildly overestimate the stock purchase and then like wildly undersell.
1:30:07So we just have this business problem where your capital is tied up in physical inventory.
1:30:15And that has knock-on effects for when can you place the next orders for the next projects.
1:30:20That has knock-on effects for marketing and all sorts of things.
1:30:23And so it's like I intellectually knew that, but it's very different to have it quite
1:30:30viscerally sink in that the like the bet we're making here is that if it goes wrong, it slows
1:30:38down Cortex brand for like a year by tying up all of this capital.
1:30:43Like that's what's really on the line here.
1:30:46And that's the stressful part of it is this impacts other projects.
1:30:52It's not just a, oh, well, we'll launch something and we'll see how it does.
1:30:57Right.
1:30:58Like with the subtle notebook, which we did, that was totally like, we'll launch it and
1:31:02we'll see how it does.
1:31:03And like, it's like, okay, great.
1:31:05We sell some, but it's not like, oh, if we didn't sell a bunch, it was going to impact
1:31:09the other products.
1:31:11But Sidekick is now big enough that it really does.
1:31:15And that turns up the pressure.
1:31:17I will say like for us too, and it is worth remembering that like we were having conversations
1:31:21like this when the Sidekick notepad launched.
1:31:24Like I was worried about the future of Cortex brand if this product did not take hold of
1:31:30people.
1:31:31Yeah.
1:31:32And so like, you know, we, we, we have been through that specific thing with this product
1:31:38of like, if people don't want this or if this doesn't work or if people don't like it, it
1:31:43calls into question if we're ever going to be more than the company that sells the theme
1:31:48system journal, which is totally fine, but we have higher aspirations than just to be
1:31:53like a one product company.
1:31:55And so that the Sidekick notepad was, I think that the proof of concept of like, can we
1:32:01do more than just the journal and it be a success and that ended up going great.
1:32:06And we're very, very, very happy with the way it launched.
1:32:09But now we're back here again, which is like, it's slightly different, but in just that,
1:32:14like we tied up our money and so into this product again, and we need to hope that it
1:32:19will take hold the way the journal did when shown to the CGP Grey YouTube audience.
1:32:24Yeah, I guess, I guess as the things feel bigger to me when you're doubling down.
1:32:32Yeah.
1:32:33We were concerned about like, if Sidekick hadn't done well, it would mean that like,
1:32:37we were doing something wrong with modeling what does the audience potentially want?
1:32:43Like, what is the market potentially interested in?
1:32:46And that would have been bad news of like, oh, we guessed wrong, which would have a bunch
1:32:52of other kinds of implications about what other products do we try or what other things
1:32:56do we do?
1:32:57But yeah, it's just, it's the feeling of like, okay, but now we're going to take all of the
1:33:03business capital and double down on one thing that feels just like very breathtaking to
1:33:09me.
1:33:10And again,
1:33:11I just want to correct you because like, I don't want to have to deal with the MBAs in
1:33:17my email.
1:33:18We have not taken all of our capital and put it on one product.
1:33:21We have just taken the majority of our available cash that we had set aside for any type of
1:33:27product when we have paused something else that we were hoping to do this year and reallocated
1:33:33all of our potential restock funds into this.
1:33:37If this doesn't sell, Cortex brand still has some money, but like, I know what you mean.
1:33:43And I think there'll be people that know what you mean, but like, I want to state it so
1:33:46we don't be like, actually, you shouldn't take all of your money and put it on one product
1:33:51as our companies go bankrupt.
1:33:52Like, no, I know.
1:33:54That is very fair to say because internet.
1:33:56But yes, it's like when I say that, I mean, all of the like unspoken for capital, right?
1:34:01That's basically what it means.
1:34:03Like, yes.
1:34:04We have bills and things as like, you're not a lunatic and say like, oh, we'll just really
1:34:09think about it this way.
1:34:10It's like, no, no, no.
1:34:11It's all of the available capital is the thing that we're doing on this.
1:34:14And we have plans, right?
1:34:16Like there is an item of clothing that will return imminently that will help, right?
1:34:23With this, like it's all part of our like end of year plan.
1:34:27But again, it's like, got to get that ready, right?
1:34:30That's like a big thing coming up.
1:34:31And like a lot of expectations sitting on that because it usually does really well for
1:34:34us and we hope that it will again.
1:34:36You know, it's like all of these things are like building and building.
1:34:40Yeah.
1:34:41Yeah.
1:34:42It's just a lot right now.
1:34:43I felt really bad because I messaged you the other day.
1:34:44I can't even remember what it was, but I asked you some question about like, hey, for this
1:34:47thing, I thought we made a decision about this and like, when is this going to happen?
1:34:51And you wrote back of like, dude, we've got two major things that need to happen before
1:34:56we even think about rolling it down.
1:34:58It's like, yep, I'm sorry.
1:35:00Like, let me back away from the keyboard.
1:35:03It's like, I just did the terrible thing of like a thought casually popped into my head
1:35:08and I just messaged it to you.
1:35:09And I was like, oh no, Mike is Atlas over here.
1:35:13Don't just like be randomly throwing some ideas in his direction about stuff.
1:35:18It's like, there's a queue of very important things that are happening in a very particular
1:35:23order.
1:35:24I'm definitely aware of that right now.
1:35:26Like that I know I'm doing that, that people that I work with are asking me about things
1:35:31and I'm answering them, but I am very aware of the fact that my answers may be giving
1:35:39away my feelings in a way that I kind of don't want, but you sometimes can't help.
1:35:45Right.
1:35:46Right.
1:35:47It's kind of like, yeah, I know.
1:35:48Like I know.
1:35:49Right.
1:35:50Like, trust me, I know as well, but like there's, there's six plates over there that we've got
1:35:55to keep moving and I've got to put my effort into that, but like we'll put this one on
1:35:59the counter and it can go up maybe in three to four months from now.
1:36:03Yeah.
1:36:04Your response was nothing out of line, but it's like, I totally realized that like, uh
1:36:08oh, right?
1:36:10Like, I know that feeling, like I've done that to people, but it's like, I just did
1:36:14the thing to bike, so I'm just going to like back away real slow.
1:36:17And for the next few months, I'm going to try to practice thinking before I press enter
1:36:23when something comes into my head about the business is like, does this really need to
1:36:28be sent as a message right now?
1:36:30Is this relevant to the top two projects that are the next two projects?
1:36:34If the answer is no, like I'm just going to keep it in my own system and this will float
1:36:39back up in January, right?
1:36:41When we're on the other side of all of this.
1:36:44This is kind of a weird topic to talk about on the show because I usually feel like something
1:36:49that I try and do and I think we try and do is like, we talk about a thing and then talk
1:36:53about what is the resolution to that?
1:36:55Like what is the path or like what have we learned?
1:36:58Like, I just don't really feel like I have an end to this.
1:37:01It's just like, Hey, I'm feeling like this, but like there's not really, and there isn't
1:37:06a, there's no end.
1:37:07It's just like, this is just it right now.
1:37:11Yeah.
1:37:12I know what you mean because I'm very aware of, again, I always want to be trying to communicate
1:37:18actionable things in the conversations, which often means you talk about things in retrospect
1:37:26for here is a problem.
1:37:28Here's how I solved it, right?
1:37:29This room is too warm, so I made a new product which will fix this going forward into the
1:37:34future, right?
1:37:35Like the, you know, here's a thing and here's what we can do about it.
1:37:39But I think this is just a real insight into and like in the moment feeling of, Oh no,
1:37:49a really busy time is coming up.
1:37:53And what are the action about that?
1:37:55There really isn't any action.
1:37:57I mean, like just for me, I have so much less to do than you have to do.
1:38:03But even for me, it's like, why am I recording this from a hotel room right now?
1:38:06Because I've got to shut out everything else in my life to try to finish the things that
1:38:10I need to finish before the end of the year.
1:38:12But that's about it.
1:38:14Like that's what I'm doing.
1:38:15And the rest of it is just, we've got to get through this and we will know in a couple
1:38:21of months how these decisions have gone and how things work out.
1:38:25But you're hearing us talk about this before, right?
1:38:29Like right before everything really kicks off in September.
1:38:33And there isn't like a lesson.
1:38:36It's just, Oh, when you have a lot going on, it can be really stress inducing in a non
1:38:44actionable sort of way.
1:38:45You just have a background level of like, Oh boy, is there a lot to do?
1:38:49And I've got to get working on this.
1:38:51It's like, I'm very aware of like, this is a conversation we had before where like, I
1:38:59need to ask of you the thing that you like less in your life and have built for multiple
1:39:05years to not ever have to deal with anyone giving you a deadline.
1:39:13But like you've got a deadline.
1:39:15Like there is a time in which this video needs to be ready so that we're able to just, when
1:39:22the stock arrives, we can put the video out and give us enough time before the next thing
1:39:29before the end of the year that we need to deal with.
1:39:32And so like this is months away from now because as we said before, it takes like, I don't
1:39:38know, it's like about 12 weeks for them to be made and then a few weeks for them to arrive.
1:39:44So you kind of like 14, 15 weeks, maybe a little bit more depending on the fact of what
1:39:47time of the year they'll be shipping out on.
1:39:50But there is a time in which you need to be done.
1:39:55And like, I don't feel comfortable with the fact that I have to ask that of you because
1:40:02I know, but I just, I know that like what I am asking you to do is something I know
1:40:08you don't want.
1:40:10That is just a complicated thing in a personal relationship and in a business relationship
1:40:15is like, not only do I have to ask you to produce a video on a timeline, I also need
1:40:22you to do a good job, right?
1:40:24Like, you know what I mean?
1:40:26So it's a very hard thing to balance.
1:40:29You could just do one tomorrow.
1:40:32It's probably not going to be any good, right?
1:40:33So it's like that it's complicated.
1:40:36The other thing is, from my perspective, I will do it if it's necessary, but I really
1:40:41strongly prefer not to have a what I think of as like a promo video where it's like,
1:40:47I'm promoting something just appear in the middle of nowhere, right?
1:40:51Where it's like, oh, there hasn't been a real video and then a product video shows up.
1:40:55I really want to try to avoid that.
1:40:57So it means that like, there's a knock on effect here of I rarely do this, but I have
1:41:03scheduled for like, okay, then it has this knock on implication of like, what are the
1:41:10next four projects?
1:41:12And like, what's happening in what order for a couple of things related to the end of the
1:41:17year?
1:41:18I'm unusually scheduled in a way that I don't normally do.
1:41:23But this, from my perspective, is also the thing of when we started to do Cortex brand
1:41:27together, I knew like, I am signing up for this.
1:41:32This is the nature of just working with other people is sometimes you're going to have to
1:41:37do things that you don't necessarily want to do.
1:41:40Like, this is so minor about having a deadline.
1:41:43But still, like, the reason I did that is like, I think and it's really borne out over
1:41:48the years, like Cortex brand is totally worth this.
1:41:51Like this makes sense.
1:41:54And there are ways in which by working with other people, you can get way more done than
1:42:00if you're just working on your own.
1:42:02But it does mean like, you don't get to have absolutely everything go like just perfectly
1:42:07and only the way that you want it to go.
1:42:09Yeah, it's like these days, it's unrealistic for me to send you a message and wait for
1:42:13three weeks for a reply.
1:42:14Like, a lot of the time, it just can't work like that.
1:42:17And I can tell that you're aware of that, right?
1:42:20Because the frequency in which you respond to my messages has changed a lot in the last
1:42:23year or so.
1:42:24Like, we have to have more meetings, we have to have more phone calls, like things that
1:42:29maybe neither of us would naturally want to add more of any of this stuff into our lives.
1:42:35Like, there are practicalities of running a business and you have to do them.
1:42:40Having in-person meetings with accountants and business advisors and going over corporate
1:42:45structures and all of these kinds of things.
1:42:47It's like, yep, here we are.
1:42:48We're doing all these things.
1:42:50Contracts and insurance and all kinds of fun stuff.
1:42:55Yeah, but I mean, look, anytime I might be even slightly tempted to feel badly about
1:43:02my situation, I'll just think about your situation and then go, "Oh, right.
1:43:07Once again, Mike's job would kill me."
1:43:10Happy to do that for you.