464: I Got Myself Some Thermal Paste


00:00:00   [MUSIC]

00:00:08   Hello and welcome to Connected episode 464.

00:00:12   My name is Mike Hurley.

00:00:14   I will introduce my co-host in just a moment.

00:00:16   This episode is brought to you by Vitaly,

00:00:18   CleanMyMac X, and Factor.

00:00:21   Hello, Federico Fattici.

00:00:22   Hello, hi, I'm back.

00:00:24   Welcome back.

00:00:25   I was very confused, I gotta say.

00:00:27   Okay.

00:00:27   For the past 10 days or so,

00:00:30   I've been getting all these mentions on my Mastodon from...

00:00:35   And at first, having not listened to what you and Steven did,

00:00:40   I just thought that...

00:00:42   Well, I figured it was your fault,

00:00:45   but I was very confused because it looked like people

00:00:49   were sending me descriptions for emoji,

00:00:52   I figured after a while.

00:00:54   But the problem was that I couldn't understand

00:00:57   whether they were real emoji or not.

00:00:59   And then I listened to the show and you asked people

00:01:01   to send actual descriptions of real emoji.

00:01:05   However, I don't think everybody did.

00:01:09   I'm pretty sure that a lot of passionate ones

00:01:11   sent imaginary emoji.

00:01:13   Like, those descriptions were not real.

00:01:15   I think what it did, I expect,

00:01:18   I have not read your messages,

00:01:20   because it's very hard to do that on Mastodon, right?

00:01:22   I feel like to read all of the posts

00:01:25   that somebody would receive.

00:01:27   But I feel like this is one of those things about emoji

00:01:30   where people are describing their interpretation.

00:01:33   - Also, you see my struggle when we play the Jeremy's.

00:01:38   - It was in honor of you and the Jeremy's,

00:01:40   in honor of your birthday, your 25th birthday.

00:01:42   Happy birthday.

00:01:43   - Thank you, thank you, thank you.

00:01:44   - Such a young boy.

00:01:46   - Yeah, yeah.

00:01:47   - Did you have a good birthday vacation?

00:01:48   - It was great, it was great.

00:01:49   I had way too much food.

00:01:51   We went to Southern Italy, we went to Puglia.

00:01:55   It was a peak season in terms of tourists.

00:01:59   There was a lot of people, like a lot of people.

00:02:03   One day coming back from the beach,

00:02:04   we were stuck in traffic for like an hour.

00:02:07   - Nice, that sounds great.

00:02:09   - That wasn't great, that wasn't great.

00:02:11   But I'll give you this.

00:02:13   I found the region of Puglia to be much,

00:02:18   much more permissive and actually modern

00:02:23   in terms of going to the beach with your dogs

00:02:26   than say where I live.

00:02:28   Like here in the Rome area, the beach is like

00:02:31   30 minutes away.

00:02:33   And every single time there's a struggle

00:02:35   because the local government doesn't want you

00:02:38   to go to the beach with your dog.

00:02:39   Even if you, obviously as we do,

00:02:42   keep your dog on a leash under the beach umbrella,

00:02:46   neither Zelda nor Ginger, they like go swimming in the sea.

00:02:49   They just wanna stay in the shade, they don't do anything.

00:02:52   But still, we cannot go to the beach.

00:02:54   And instead in Puglia, we had a fantastic time

00:02:56   because everybody was like, yeah, sure.

00:02:58   As long as you stay under your beach umbrella

00:03:00   and you don't let your dog run around and bother people,

00:03:02   we don't care, it's fine.

00:03:04   And that was nice.

00:03:06   - So I'm currently outraged.

00:03:08   I'm seething, I'm so mad right now.

00:03:12   Would you like to know why?

00:03:13   - Yes.

00:03:14   - So I thought that what I would do

00:03:15   is I would add a Wikipedia link to Puglia

00:03:18   in the show notes so people could take a look

00:03:20   at what is known as the boot of Italy.

00:03:22   - Yes, correct.

00:03:24   - But the Wikipedia page redirects to Apulia, A-P-U-L-I-A.

00:03:29   And it starts with Apulia,

00:03:31   also known by its Italian name Puglia.

00:03:34   It's a place in Italy.

00:03:36   That's the name.

00:03:37   This has always frustrated me since I was a kid.

00:03:40   Like why do different countries call the place

00:03:44   what they wanna call it rather than the name?

00:03:47   Like, you know, like why do I call them,

00:03:49   why is it Italy, right?

00:03:50   You don't call it Italy.

00:03:51   - I know.

00:03:52   - Right, it's Italia, right?

00:03:53   And that's what we should do our best, I think,

00:03:55   to actually call it like that

00:03:56   rather than some weird thing that happens.

00:03:58   - And it's confusing because it's only sometimes, right?

00:04:01   - Yes.

00:04:02   - For example, do you know what we call London in Italy?

00:04:05   - Let me think.

00:04:07   - You probably, it's Londra.

00:04:10   - Londra, yeah, I mean, it's not-

00:04:11   - Where does the R come from?

00:04:14   - It's not super different to the French one, right?

00:04:17   Like, and Spanish as well, it's very similar to that too.

00:04:21   And I just find it very,

00:04:23   it's always been very weird to me since I was a kid

00:04:25   that like there is this-

00:04:27   - This translations for these places, yeah.

00:04:29   - And it's just, it's wild to me

00:04:31   for I'm actually quite disappointed in Wikipedia, right?

00:04:34   Like why is it the,

00:04:35   I just don't think it should be the English version.

00:04:37   It's like, that's the, even the URL is slash Apulia.

00:04:42   - Yeah, it should be the other way around.

00:04:44   It should be the original name

00:04:45   and also they should say called in English such and such.

00:04:49   - And I would call this Apolying.

00:04:51   - Wow, now see that's bad.

00:04:54   - See, now I've done something worse than Wikipedia.

00:04:58   - Yes, yes indeed.

00:04:58   - So I'm just trying to take the heat.

00:05:00   I have a little bit of follow up.

00:05:01   - Okay.

00:05:02   - From a couple of episodes ago,

00:05:04   we were talking about the app L,

00:05:06   oh, you know what we have not addressed where Steven is?

00:05:08   It's a good question from Kate.

00:05:10   - Oh, yes.

00:05:10   - Federico's going on another vacation.

00:05:12   He's living his absolute maximum Italian life this year.

00:05:16   So he just got back from two weeks

00:05:21   and now he's going away again.

00:05:23   And so we had the option of,

00:05:25   there was only gonna be able to be two of us

00:05:27   on this episode because.

00:05:28   - Schedules.

00:05:29   - We couldn't get all of our schedules to match up.

00:05:31   So we decided to take the Mike and Federico route.

00:05:34   So Federico wasn't gone for three weeks.

00:05:36   So we are recording this like 36 hours earlier than usual.

00:05:41   So it's something like 8 a.m. for Steven right now.

00:05:44   So Steven's taken the week off.

00:05:45   He is editing the show.

00:05:46   So if there's anything egregious that occurs,

00:05:48   you know Steven had his hand in it.

00:05:50   - Yeah.

00:05:51   (upbeat music)

00:05:53   - And you also, if you are a non paying member of the show,

00:06:01   you'll hear Steven during the outbreaks this week.

00:06:03   And if you love Steven that much and you're a member,

00:06:05   go check out the ads and then you'll get Steven.

00:06:08   Anyway, back to the follow up.

00:06:10   Elsewhen was an application that we spoke about,

00:06:12   which is a really good app for like time zone conversions,

00:06:15   especially if you're a Discord user,

00:06:16   'cause you can get these like time codes

00:06:18   that you can paste into Discord.

00:06:19   And it localizes to people's own time zone, very helpful.

00:06:24   We were talking about their menu bar app

00:06:26   saying the word Elsewhen.

00:06:28   They have now fixed that.

00:06:29   It seems like there was a confusion with the test flight

00:06:34   and the developers thought they had released the version

00:06:36   where it removed that.

00:06:38   And they have now done that.

00:06:39   And it's a great app.

00:06:40   And now it's the only time zone converter

00:06:43   that I have in my menu bar on my Mac.

00:06:44   - Very nice.

00:06:45   - Long time listeners may remember

00:06:47   the iTunes movie trailers website,

00:06:50   which is a thing we spoke about a long time ago.

00:06:52   - Steven's favorite website.

00:06:54   - Steven's favorite website that there is just like,

00:06:56   I don't know if it was like this before,

00:06:58   but it's like wrapped inside of the current website.

00:07:01   Like it's got the current toolbar at the top, right?

00:07:04   Like Mac, iPad, iPhone, watch.

00:07:06   And it's just this very, very old website

00:07:08   that is like reminiscent of the iTunes music store

00:07:12   from like, I don't know, the mid 2000s

00:07:14   or something like that.

00:07:15   Well, this has been updated

00:07:18   because the iTunes movie trailers app got an update

00:07:22   that said it was going away.

00:07:24   And that now the Apple TV app

00:07:27   is where you'll be able to find trailers now,

00:07:31   not in like the iTunes movie trailers app.

00:07:33   And so Steven checked the website

00:07:36   and the website still exists,

00:07:38   but it has the same banner on it,

00:07:40   which is like, hey, go and get the app.

00:07:43   But the banner is not retina.

00:07:45   And when you click the banner, it doesn't go anywhere.

00:07:47   So the iTunes movie trailers website continues

00:07:50   to get the same amount of effort that it has always had.

00:07:53   - This is so sad.

00:07:55   - Yeah, it's pretty sad.

00:07:58   - This looks like a PNG image

00:08:01   they made with shortcuts or something.

00:08:04   - I'm actually super keen to discover

00:08:07   if it is actually going to go away.

00:08:08   'Cause I just noticed my second favorite thing

00:08:10   on this webpage.

00:08:11   So you've got right at the top,

00:08:12   Apple TV app is a new home for iTunes movie trailers, right?

00:08:16   If you look at the bottom right,

00:08:17   iTunes movie trailers available in the app store.

00:08:19   (laughing)

00:08:21   - And if you click the link, it takes you nowhere.

00:08:23   - That one actually does.

00:08:24   - No, it works.

00:08:25   - The banner where they're saying like,

00:08:27   go get the TV app, that doesn't work.

00:08:28   We spoke last time that we were gonna be doing

00:08:32   a live show in London.

00:08:34   The tickets are now available.

00:08:38   Go to relay.fm/london to get your tickets.

00:08:42   This is gonna be on July 27th, 2024,

00:08:46   live in London at the Hackney Empire,

00:08:49   which is an incredible venue that I went to a show at

00:08:52   multiple months ago.

00:08:54   And I thought to myself, Federico, this is the one.

00:08:57   And we made it happen.

00:08:59   Tickets are on sale now.

00:09:00   They have been selling incredibly fast to members.

00:09:02   We expected we'd sell maybe 200 to members.

00:09:05   We sold over 400.

00:09:07   - Wow, okay.

00:09:07   - We're approaching, I think we're approaching,

00:09:10   probably a lot of time this is released,

00:09:11   we will have sold over half of the tickets.

00:09:13   - Okay.

00:09:14   - We have a capacity of 1,200 people.

00:09:18   This is gonna be our first live show ever

00:09:20   outside of the United States of America.

00:09:22   It's gonna feature many of your favorite relay.fm hosts

00:09:25   in a relay.fm family feud/family fortunes game,

00:09:29   like we did for our fifth anniversary show.

00:09:32   There will be no video of this show.

00:09:33   We will have hopefully a recording of this show.

00:09:35   If you want to experience our 10th anniversary

00:09:38   and celebrate it with us,

00:09:39   the best way to do that is to be live and in person.

00:09:42   You gotta be there.

00:09:43   - You gotta be there.

00:09:44   - You gotta be there.

00:09:45   - We'll be there and you know.

00:09:46   - We're gonna be talking quite a bit about video games today,

00:09:48   I think Federico is what we all want to do.

00:09:51   And at the moment, all we're saying is that,

00:09:54   all we said is that Mike and Steven will be there.

00:09:58   You're Federico, but I was talking about Steven.

00:10:00   Mike and Steven will be there.

00:10:01   And I was imagining this almost like Smash Brothers thing

00:10:05   over time of announcing which other hosts.

00:10:09   (laughing)

00:10:10   - What's a tagline they use?

00:10:13   The like a new fighter approaches or something?

00:10:15   - Yeah, yeah.

00:10:16   So we could be like a new podcaster approaches.

00:10:19   - Oh, you should totally do it.

00:10:20   - And I was wondering if you were willing to be that person.

00:10:24   - Oh, I.

00:10:25   - The first one.

00:10:26   - Yeah, yeah, I mean.

00:10:27   - All right, okay, you ready?

00:10:28   Ready?

00:10:28   - A new podcaster approaches.

00:10:30   - That's Federico Vittucci, everyone.

00:10:32   Federico is gonna be there.

00:10:33   New challenger.

00:10:34   - New challenger approaches.

00:10:35   - But we're gonna go with podcaster.

00:10:37   A new podcaster approaches and it's Federico Vittucci.

00:10:40   We are happy to announce Federico Vittucci

00:10:42   is the first Relay FM host who is committing

00:10:45   to be at the 10th anniversary show.

00:10:47   Go to relay.fm/london.

00:10:49   If you are considering this,

00:10:51   you really should go get a ticket.

00:10:53   I've been really, I was very hopeful for this,

00:10:56   but I've been very surprised about how many people

00:11:00   are planning a trip to London from other countries.

00:11:02   - It's incredible, right?

00:11:03   - I was hoping it would happen

00:11:05   and it's why we gave basically a year's notice

00:11:09   and I'm really excited about it

00:11:11   and we're gonna do our best to make the best show possible.

00:11:13   - Yeah, this is gonna be wild, I can't wait.

00:11:15   - And if we wanna make the best show possible,

00:11:17   Federico's gotta be there, you know,

00:11:18   it's just the way it goes.

00:11:19   - Yeah.

00:11:20   - Hell is frozen over.

00:11:21   You can put links in emails now on iOS.

00:11:27   - Game changer, right?

00:11:28   So this is what happens when you play around

00:11:31   with betas at night and, you know,

00:11:35   I was reorganizing my notes.

00:11:37   We'll talk about this, I don't know if today

00:11:39   or next episode or whatever,

00:11:41   I was reorganizing my notes in Obsidian, Mike,

00:11:45   not in Apple Notes, in Obsidian,

00:11:47   and I was just playing around with mail

00:11:50   and I was asking myself, did they really not do

00:11:52   any new feature in mail this year?

00:11:56   And as I was composing an email,

00:11:58   I selected some text and I noticed an add link button.

00:12:03   And sure enough, you can now do hyperlinks in Apple Mail

00:12:06   without having to do any of those weird tricks

00:12:09   or use a shortcut to do it.

00:12:11   You can just select some text, add a link,

00:12:13   and it's gonna be the text you selected

00:12:16   but underlined in blue because it's a link.

00:12:19   So it's, I'm guessing the same, it's the same button

00:12:23   and it's sort of the same menu that you get in Apple Notes,

00:12:26   but obviously in Apple Notes this year,

00:12:28   you can do all kinds of links, right?

00:12:29   You can do internal links, you can do links to the web.

00:12:32   This is much more simplistic

00:12:34   because you can just link to a webpage.

00:12:37   But as I was composing my post for Mastodon about it,

00:12:43   I stopped because I wanted to say,

00:12:46   well, since the first iPhone came out and I was typing,

00:12:50   it's like my instinct was to type six years ago.

00:12:54   And I was like, wait, no, that's not.

00:12:55   (laughing)

00:12:56   That's not right.

00:12:58   And so I started counting with my hands and I did them mine.

00:13:01   I was like, wait, what?

00:13:02   The first iPhone came out 16 years ago

00:13:05   and it dawned on me that it's wild.

00:13:10   And I don't know if this is also true for you,

00:13:12   but like the iPhone doesn't feel 16 years old to me.

00:13:15   - No, sure.

00:13:16   - The iPhone always feel like, yeah, the first iPhone,

00:13:19   it's like six or seven years ago, but nope.

00:13:22   It's, I mean, another way to think about it is

00:13:25   the iPhone is approaching 20 years.

00:13:27   - Which is-

00:13:28   - The upsetting part of that is that-

00:13:29   - It's wild, right?

00:13:31   - It was the 25th anniversary of the G3 iMac.

00:13:34   - Yeah.

00:13:35   - Right?

00:13:35   - Yeah.

00:13:36   - I think that we just had that anniversary.

00:13:38   That does not feel like nine years difference

00:13:41   between those two things.

00:13:42   - Are we old?

00:13:43   - We're old to a lot of people.

00:13:44   We're young to a lot of people still,

00:13:46   but we're old to a lot of people.

00:13:48   - Is that a sweet spot? - Like if you think about-

00:13:50   - Maybe?

00:13:51   - It's a spot.

00:13:53   - I don't know if we could call it the sweet spot.

00:13:56   'Cause like the thing is,

00:13:57   if you think about 16 years, right?

00:14:00   Like think of how many people in their twenties

00:14:02   would have been like aware of the iPhone

00:14:06   and then it's taken 16 years

00:14:07   and now they could be listening to the show.

00:14:09   Like I feel like there's a lot when in our Discord,

00:14:12   I don't know if you feel this in your Discord,

00:14:14   but there are a lot of people in our Discord

00:14:17   that I know are younger than me.

00:14:18   Like a lot, a lot. - Yeah, oh yeah.

00:14:20   - Which I guess is self-selecting for Discord, right?

00:14:23   I think, right?

00:14:24   In general.

00:14:25   But it is something that I am increasingly becoming aware of

00:14:30   but I think the awareness of it is good, right?

00:14:33   We talk about that on the show a lot

00:14:34   of like being aware of our ages

00:14:37   and considering staying, how we stay relevant

00:14:40   and like paying attention and stuff like that, so.

00:14:43   - Yeah, anyway, 16 years ago.

00:14:45   Now after 16 years, you can do links in email.

00:14:47   So. - Excellent.

00:14:49   - There's at least one feature,

00:14:50   one new feature in iOS 17 in Apple Mail.

00:14:53   - For all those Gen Z kids

00:14:54   that wanna put links in their email.

00:14:56   - All those kids who just wanna hyperlink away, you know?

00:15:00   - I guess like most of these people,

00:15:01   they're just used to just pasting links, right?

00:15:03   Like that's just what we do.

00:15:04   - Yeah, and they're used to seeing,

00:15:06   like when you think about it,

00:15:08   so this is a totally normal detour for us,

00:15:11   but when you think about it,

00:15:12   I would say the most kids these days,

00:15:14   they're not used to, like when I think of a URL,

00:15:17   when I think of a link, me as a 35-year-old guy,

00:15:22   I think of an HTTP, like I think of it as text.

00:15:26   I would say that maybe the new generation

00:15:30   thinks of links as these like visual bubbles,

00:15:33   because they're used to seeing rich links.

00:15:35   Now like on Twitter, on iMessage, on WhatsApp.

00:15:38   - Instagram. - Instagram.

00:15:40   Like the link is the, and sure, I mean,

00:15:43   there's still like the blue underlying text,

00:15:46   but most links these days, they don't look like links.

00:15:48   They look like previews.

00:15:50   While we're complaining about links and being old,

00:15:53   it really annoys me now that social networks

00:15:56   put the @ symbol in the URL.

00:15:58   Mastodon does this, TikTok does this.

00:16:01   Why?

00:16:02   Why does the @ symbol need to be in the URL?

00:16:05   The usernames are distinct anyway.

00:16:07   Why does the @ need to be there?

00:16:09   - The @ symbol is supposed to be in email, not in the URL.

00:16:14   It gets me every time.

00:16:15   - I like that it typically uses, right?

00:16:18   Your @ this, @ that.

00:16:19   Like that's fine, but why does the @ symbol

00:16:22   need to be in the URL?

00:16:24   - I know, it looks wrong.

00:16:24   - That's just complicated,

00:16:26   an unnecessary complication it feels like.

00:16:28   If people know why this is a decision,

00:16:31   please write in connectivefeedback.com.

00:16:33   Like I wanna know, like, why did they do this?

00:16:36   This is obviously not a groundbreaking feature,

00:16:39   but it's just like a thing, right?

00:16:40   This link's an email thing.

00:16:41   It's like, here's a fun little detail.

00:16:42   You post it on Mastodon, right?

00:16:44   Like people want that from you.

00:16:45   - Yeah.

00:16:46   - But in general, it doesn't really feel like the bait

00:16:49   is providing a lot of this kind of stuff.

00:16:52   I guess this isn't important for your review

00:16:54   because the review is about the whole thing,

00:16:56   but I feel like we're going multiple baiters now

00:16:59   and we're not, it feels to me like there's not a lot of like,

00:17:03   hey, this thing just got changed.

00:17:05   - Yeah, I noticed that this summer,

00:17:07   I was talking about this with John

00:17:08   and maybe with you guys.

00:17:10   In previous years, beta four, beta five,

00:17:13   Apple continued to add new stuff.

00:17:17   And you remember my, at the time used to be Twitter.

00:17:20   Like I used to tweet, in beta three, there's now this,

00:17:22   in beta five, you can now find this new detail,

00:17:25   this new feature.

00:17:26   We didn't get as much of that this year.

00:17:28   And I gotta believe it's because like broadly speaking,

00:17:31   17 is a smaller release than previous years

00:17:35   and it's easier to write about.

00:17:37   Not a lot of things got changed.

00:17:39   It's pretty much what we saw in June

00:17:41   was tweaked here and there, but really, for example,

00:17:44   this new ad link manual, but really, really,

00:17:48   it's probably less than 10 big changes.

00:17:52   Some buttons got their position changed,

00:17:56   but I don't count that as a new feature.

00:17:59   It's been a different beta season.

00:18:00   It's gotta be because like obviously Apple is busy

00:18:02   with the Vision OS and Vision Pro.

00:18:04   This is actually the beginning of my review.

00:18:08   It's like, it's been a strange year.

00:18:11   In a good way, I think, 17 is a fun release

00:18:14   and widgets really steal the show,

00:18:17   but it's been a different beta season

00:18:19   where usually I would have to like follow through,

00:18:23   follow the evolution of the beta, right?

00:18:25   Taking screenshots of beta one

00:18:26   and now this is gonna look different.

00:18:28   I was taking a look at screenshots that I took in June

00:18:30   and they're pretty much the same as the latest version.

00:18:32   So yeah, it's been a different year, I think.

00:18:37   - This episode of Connected is brought to you

00:18:41   by Vitaly.

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00:20:10   for a free pair of AirPods Pro

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00:20:16   Our thanks to Vitaly for their support of the show

00:20:18   and Relay FM.

00:20:19   - Couple of days ago, you shared with me and Steven

00:20:23   your desk and I thought this needed some immediate analysis

00:20:28   on the show.

00:20:29   So I'm gonna put a couple of links in the show notes

00:20:31   for images that you've got going on here.

00:20:34   - I would say this is maximum Federico.

00:20:38   I feel like this overall desk image,

00:20:42   I feel like it is also very desk porn.

00:20:46   I feel like you've done a good job of that, right?

00:20:49   You've got a good angle on one of these images here, right?

00:20:53   Everything is neutral colors,

00:20:55   but you've got actual color in here, right?

00:20:58   You've got some purple going on.

00:20:59   All these, everything looks like it's been

00:21:01   meticulously chosen and placed where it's supposed to go.

00:21:06   I'm assuming you're pretty happy with this.

00:21:08   - I am pretty happy with this.

00:21:11   I should say that I am still not fully done.

00:21:16   There's a few things that we are,

00:21:21   that I'm going to tweak and change.

00:21:26   So we're gonna talk about this,

00:21:28   but basically what I wanted to do was

00:21:32   I wanted to keep the things that I wanted to have on my desk.

00:21:35   The HomePod with the battery base,

00:21:37   the Anker charging cube, obviously mouse and keyboard,

00:21:43   and my audio interface.

00:21:45   I wanted to hide the computers that I use from Vue

00:21:48   and mount them underneath the desk.

00:21:52   So that's what you can see in the second picture.

00:21:54   This required a lot of cable management,

00:21:57   which we're gonna get to in a minute.

00:21:59   And it also meant that I had to change

00:22:04   a few of the accessories that I was using.

00:22:06   Again, I will explain everything in a bit.

00:22:09   So there's a couple of things

00:22:10   that I am going to explain shortly.

00:22:13   The first one being, I am still not sure

00:22:18   about the audio interface that I'm using.

00:22:23   - You have the Elgato Wave XLR, right?

00:22:26   - I wish I could get something that wasn't black

00:22:29   and not made of plastic.

00:22:33   Ideally, I would like to have something even more minimal

00:22:35   with like, made of aluminum or I don't know,

00:22:40   just more rectangular shaped with an XLR connector

00:22:46   either on the front or on the side.

00:22:51   Because the Wave XLR has it in the back.

00:22:53   Also the headphones, they plug in in the back

00:22:55   and I'm not a fan of that.

00:22:57   Because it means there's always gonna be some distance

00:22:59   between the back of the unit and the wall.

00:23:01   Because I need to be able to plug in connectors.

00:23:04   And so ideally I would like to have something

00:23:06   rectangular shaped, metallic, more minimal looking

00:23:09   with connectors either on the front or on the side.

00:23:11   - I have two recommendations for you.

00:23:14   - Please give them to me.

00:23:15   - The Audient Evo 4.

00:23:18   - Wait, I need to write this down.

00:23:20   Audient.

00:23:22   - A-U-D-I-E-N-T.

00:23:25   - Audient Evo 4.

00:23:27   - And the Rode R-E-D-E-A-L-1.

00:23:29   - Oh, this is nice looking.

00:23:30   And sorry, the?

00:23:31   - Rode, R-E-D-E-A-L-1.

00:23:34   - A-L-1.

00:23:36   - Yeah, these are both the marker recommendations.

00:23:39   - Oh, I prefer the Audient, I think.

00:23:42   - I think this is the more expensive one.

00:23:44   So yeah, you'll probably like this one more.

00:23:45   - This is easy, this is very simple.

00:23:48   - I don't know the, you know, I don't know these,

00:23:51   but I know that he tests them, so.

00:23:54   - I really like the look of this.

00:23:57   Oh, but where's the connectors?

00:24:00   - On the back, maybe?

00:24:01   - On the back, all right.

00:24:02   - I know that that's not exactly what you want,

00:24:04   but the Rode connectors are on the front.

00:24:06   - See, it's on the front.

00:24:09   All right, I'll take a look at this when I came back.

00:24:11   And what I was gonna say, so, all right,

00:24:14   let's talk about this desk,

00:24:15   because there's a part that people don't see.

00:24:19   Obviously people from the picture,

00:24:20   they can see the light strip,

00:24:22   they can see that I mounted the,

00:24:24   there's a little bracket underneath the desk

00:24:26   to either place my MacBook Air or my iPad Pro.

00:24:31   The thought was, most of the time it's gonna be the iPad Pro

00:24:34   when I record podcasts, it's gonna be the MacBook Air,

00:24:37   but there's gonna be a single USB-C cable

00:24:39   that will connect either of these computers.

00:24:42   The CalDigit TS4 dock is mounted also underneath the desk,

00:24:47   as is the USB-C switch for switching between

00:24:53   either the CalDigit, which is input one,

00:24:56   or I never spoke about this before,

00:24:59   so all of this is new to this show, fresh.

00:25:04   Input one is the CalDigit TS4 dock, input two is my eGPU.

00:25:11   So.

00:25:12   - Later, we'll get to that later.

00:25:14   - We'll get, and we'll get to this in a bit.

00:25:16   - How are you mounting these?

00:25:17   Like, what are you using to mount this stuff?

00:25:20   - I got the extra strong double-sided adhesive tape.

00:25:25   The Americans call it 3M, I think.

00:25:33   In Italy, it's a different brand called Patex,

00:25:36   which is, I don't know what it means,

00:25:39   but it's super strong, and it doesn't leave any residue

00:25:43   when you take it off, so it's very nicely done.

00:25:46   Quite expensive, but--

00:25:47   - So you're just sticking the tape to these devices,

00:25:51   and then just sticking the devices

00:25:52   to the underside of the desk?

00:25:53   - Yeah, yes.

00:25:54   - Okay.

00:25:55   - Yes, and very clean, doesn't leave any glue or any--

00:25:59   - Obviously not the laptop, though.

00:26:02   - No, no, no, the laptop has its own bracket.

00:26:04   - Yeah, can you imagine?

00:26:06   - No, I am not.

00:26:07   (laughing)

00:26:09   - I'll just stick it under there.

00:26:10   - I wanted to get a bracket for the CalDigit as well,

00:26:15   and I probably will, but it was only available

00:26:17   on Etsy, and I didn't have the time,

00:26:19   because we know with Etsy, you gotta wait multiple weeks,

00:26:21   but I probably will get a mounting bracket

00:26:24   for the CalDigit.

00:26:24   Ideally, if I had a 3D printer,

00:26:26   I would just 3D print all of these myself, but--

00:26:28   - You know, I've been thinking about getting a 3D printer.

00:26:31   - Yeah, me too, but I don't have the space,

00:26:33   I don't have the time for it.

00:26:34   - I feel like it would be pretty good at the studio.

00:26:36   - Yeah.

00:26:37   - Here's another thing. - You do have the space.

00:26:38   - Connectedfeedback.com, tell me what 3D printer to buy.

00:26:41   Understand that I don't wanna do any of the work.

00:26:45   - Good luck.

00:26:46   - All I wanna do is download files

00:26:48   that people make and print them.

00:26:50   I want the simplest option.

00:26:53   - Good luck with that.

00:26:54   - Connectedfeedback.com, yeah, well, you know.

00:26:56   - So yeah, eventually I'm probably gonna get proper,

00:26:59   like 3D printed brackets for the TS4,

00:27:03   and also the Eero that I have.

00:27:07   The Eero, I have wired ethernet, and there's an Eero,

00:27:11   what's it called, satellite unit or whatever.

00:27:14   But it's not, because of the shape of the base of the Eero,

00:27:18   it's not so easy to stick adhesive tape to it,

00:27:21   because it's like curved,

00:27:23   and it doesn't really make great contact with it.

00:27:25   So I'm probably gonna get a bracket

00:27:27   for the Eero Pro 6 as well.

00:27:30   - Could you not just like stick it upside down?

00:27:33   - No, because it's curved.

00:27:35   - No, but the bottom of it?

00:27:36   - Yeah, yeah.

00:27:38   - Okay, I think you have different Eeros to me.

00:27:40   I think you have the E ones, I don't have those.

00:27:43   But really the main thing that I still need more time

00:27:46   to think about is the eGPU.

00:27:50   I have the Razer Core X with an NVIDIA 38 ETI inside.

00:27:56   I've been using this for the past,

00:28:00   almost for a year at this point,

00:28:01   again, we'll get to this in a minute.

00:28:04   I am not sure if at some point it'll stay,

00:28:08   right now it's out in the open under the desk,

00:28:12   there's a little cabinet where one of the-

00:28:15   - It's a big boy.

00:28:15   - It's a big boy.

00:28:16   - It's a big boy.

00:28:17   - It's a big boy.

00:28:18   - It's basically a PC.

00:28:19   - I know.

00:28:20   - It's like the size of a PC.

00:28:22   - But this is the space I have for it.

00:28:24   I don't wanna build a super compact PC,

00:28:29   and I don't wanna get, I used to have a tower PC.

00:28:32   I don't wanna have a tower PC,

00:28:33   because I don't have the height for it.

00:28:34   I don't have the space.

00:28:36   It needs to be this kind of object.

00:28:38   And I, but I don't know if it'll stay like it is right now,

00:28:41   or if we'll get some kind of dedicated small cabinet for it

00:28:46   with proper ventilation, like a door that opens,

00:28:50   or like one of those doors that are see-through,

00:28:52   so the air can flow in.

00:28:54   So that's the part I'm not sure about,

00:28:56   but roughly speaking, this is the setup.

00:28:59   Nothing on the desk except the HomePod

00:29:01   and the Anker charging cube and my audio interface,

00:29:05   and everything else under it.

00:29:08   Although we may be changing the cable management

00:29:12   or how things are mounted,

00:29:14   but this should give you an idea.

00:29:16   There's a switch with two inputs,

00:29:19   one for the CalDigit TS4 dock

00:29:21   that lets me use either my iPad Pro or my MacBook Air,

00:29:24   and the second one for my eGPU,

00:29:27   which connects to the switch using a display port

00:29:29   to USB-C cable for my gaming PC.

00:29:33   And this is part one of this conversation.

00:29:35   Do you have any other questions about my desk?

00:29:37   - The desk is like a custom thing you have made, right?

00:29:41   Like the actual desk itself.

00:29:43   It's like rich Italian artistry.

00:29:47   - That is actually correct.

00:29:48   - Yeah, well, I know, I know.

00:29:51   You gotta get it done right.

00:29:52   What keyboard and mouse are you using?

00:29:55   - Oh, I'm using the Logitech MX Keys Mini

00:29:59   and the MX Lift Vertical Mouse.

00:30:03   The other Logitech mice were giving me some wrist pain,

00:30:08   and this lift, I don't know,

00:30:11   I don't remember who recommended this to me.

00:30:14   It was a Discord member.

00:30:15   It changed my life.

00:30:16   This vertical mouse, it's a very oddly shaped object.

00:30:20   I'll give you that, but it's perfect.

00:30:22   Like I haven't felt any wrist pain anymore.

00:30:26   And I got this keyboard and this mouse

00:30:30   because they have three inputs,

00:30:32   which is perfect for me.

00:30:34   Input one, gaming PC.

00:30:36   Input two, iPad Pro.

00:30:38   Input three, MacBook Air.

00:30:39   And I can just press a button and switch between them.

00:30:42   - You have the MX Keys Mini?

00:30:44   - Yes.

00:30:45   - Yeah, the--

00:30:46   - With the Mac keys on it.

00:30:48   - Yes, I have one of these vertical mice.

00:30:52   I ended up going back to the regular one.

00:30:55   I liked the vertical mouse,

00:30:58   but I went back to the regular one

00:30:59   just 'cause it was fine for me.

00:31:00   I think the reason you were struggling with the other ones

00:31:04   is the same reason I struggled.

00:31:06   You put too many little shortcuts on the buttons.

00:31:10   That was my issue.

00:31:12   When I was really struggling with the MX Master mouse

00:31:16   was because I was doing too much

00:31:18   of all the little buttons that it has.

00:31:20   You know, like the little click surfaces

00:31:22   and the left and right buttons.

00:31:23   I think they're not very ergonomic, I think.

00:31:26   And it caused me quite a bit of hand and wrist pain.

00:31:30   I had to stop doing all of that.

00:31:32   And when I stopped doing all of that,

00:31:33   it became more comfortable.

00:31:35   But the lift is an ergonomic mouse, right?

00:31:38   So it's a much more natural way for you to hold your hand

00:31:42   where you hold it vertically rather than horizontally.

00:31:45   - Yeah, exactly.

00:31:46   And that was the problem for me

00:31:48   was holding it horizontally.

00:31:50   And I don't know what it was like.

00:31:52   The muscles in my forearm were always tense

00:31:57   when I was holding a regular mouse like that.

00:31:58   And that just doesn't happen anymore with a vertical mouse.

00:32:01   - You know, trackpad?

00:32:02   - Well, I don't wanna have, again,

00:32:05   the idea is I don't wanna have too many things on my desk.

00:32:08   - Clearly.

00:32:09   - And so I just, as much as I will love for Apple

00:32:12   to figure out like a magic trackpad, which I prefer,

00:32:16   I would prefer a trackpad to a mouse,

00:32:19   but it doesn't switch between devices.

00:32:21   And so I cannot use them.

00:32:24   I prefer the--

00:32:25   - You mean your PC, right?

00:32:26   You can't switch it between the Mac and the PC?

00:32:28   - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:32:29   - So it's better to just have one set,

00:32:32   because I know myself, I'm not gonna do like,

00:32:35   oh, take the keyboard from the drawer

00:32:37   and swap between multiple keyboards.

00:32:40   I'm just not gonna do it.

00:32:42   Needs to be one thing that works all the time.

00:32:44   And this is it.

00:32:46   - When you work, do you put things on the desk?

00:32:50   Right, so like if you're working on something,

00:32:53   do you like have other stuff on the desk

00:32:55   that you then clear away?

00:32:56   Like your desk is always like this.

00:32:58   - Yeah, it needs to be like this.

00:33:00   If I'm, I would temporarily, like right now, for example,

00:33:04   I'm packing and there's like many Nintendo switches here

00:33:07   because I gotta put it away.

00:33:09   But normally when I'm working, like it needs to be clear.

00:33:12   - And you should see my desk.

00:33:13   - Yeah, and I cannot do it.

00:33:14   It needs to be empty and I'm facing the wall.

00:33:17   I don't see anything else.

00:33:18   Close the door and I type.

00:33:20   - Actually in a couple of weeks time,

00:33:22   for an interesting reason,

00:33:24   I'm making a desk video.

00:33:26   I'm gonna make a video about my desk

00:33:28   and how I have my desk set up.

00:33:30   You're gonna, it's gonna upset you.

00:33:33   Like I'm gonna tidy it and it's gonna upset you.

00:33:36   - Well, I know, I know that, you know,

00:33:38   everybody has their own things.

00:33:41   - My biggest issue for desk messiness now

00:33:44   is I work on physical products.

00:33:45   To do that work, I need lots of sheets of paper

00:33:50   and like paper samples and stuff.

00:33:52   Like, and I have to lay them all out.

00:33:53   And it's kind of like, if I'm working on something

00:33:55   for like a week and it's this kind of stuff,

00:33:57   I'm not gonna like put it away.

00:33:59   I just put it to the side in a pile

00:34:01   and then get them out again

00:34:03   when I need to continue work on it.

00:34:04   And then eventually, like I did just this the other day,

00:34:06   like a couple of things that we're taking care of now.

00:34:08   So they've been filed into this filing cabinet that I have,

00:34:11   but there's still other stuff going on.

00:34:13   So I have like sheets of paper all over the place.

00:34:16   But also even if I didn't do this,

00:34:20   I just like to have stuff around me.

00:34:22   Like I like little trinkets,

00:34:24   which you are not a trinkets person.

00:34:25   - No, I'm not. - Except for the Amiibo,

00:34:26   but they don't go on the desk.

00:34:27   - Well, no, they're in a separate cabinet.

00:34:30   - Yes.

00:34:31   - Living the best life. - The trinket cabinet.

00:34:32   - Yeah, it is exactly that, yes.

00:34:35   This is part one, I guess, of this conversation.

00:34:40   There is a part two.

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00:35:56   That's macpaul.app/connected

00:36:00   or click the link in the show notes.

00:36:02   Our thanks to CleanMyMac X for the support of the show

00:36:05   and Relay FM.

00:36:07   I'm thinking about how to best approach this.

00:36:08   So I mentioned the new GPU, right?

00:36:10   And you may be wondering, wait, why do you have a new GPU

00:36:12   if you used to have a proper gaming PC?

00:36:15   All right, so we need to start from summer of 2022.

00:36:18   If you recall last year,

00:36:23   that old stage manager saga was really difficult for me.

00:36:28   And all the stress and the delay of iPadOS 16

00:36:32   and the bugs and the issues

00:36:33   and the fact that I ended up publishing a review of iOS 16

00:36:37   that didn't have the iPadOS part in it,

00:36:41   I published these, some people would say scathing story

00:36:45   about stage manager in October.

00:36:46   - That would be right.

00:36:47   - I didn't really want to do it, but I had to.

00:36:51   And by the end of October, sort of in November,

00:36:54   once everything was done, I felt exhausted.

00:36:56   Like I felt, honestly, I felt kind of burned out

00:36:59   by the whole thing.

00:37:01   - A lot of your friends were having a lot of conversations

00:37:03   with you about like what you should be doing,

00:37:05   what they recommended.

00:37:06   I was one of these people, right?

00:37:07   Like we were all having these conversations with you

00:37:09   'cause you were clearly going through a bit of a crisis.

00:37:13   And I would say you had your mid-computer life crisis,

00:37:17   which we're gonna talk about.

00:37:19   But yeah, you were going through a time, it was difficult.

00:37:21   - I was going through a time and yeah,

00:37:23   it honestly was the equivalent of a midlife crisis,

00:37:26   but for a computer nerd,

00:37:27   because to the point where I started questioning

00:37:30   all my life decisions in terms of like,

00:37:31   what do I actually do for a living?

00:37:33   What do I like to write about?

00:37:35   If a bad operating system update can do this to me,

00:37:40   what does it say about me as a writer?

00:37:41   What does it say about me as a person?

00:37:43   It's like, right?

00:37:45   All those questions they started.

00:37:45   - Those are big questions.

00:37:46   - Those are big questions, right?

00:37:49   And I really struggled with this

00:37:50   and I talked about it with Sylvia for months.

00:37:53   And so I'm just gonna rip the bandaid off.

00:37:56   From January to June of this year,

00:37:59   in secret, without telling anybody for months,

00:38:02   eventually I told my friends,

00:38:04   I used a Microsoft Surface as my main computer

00:38:08   for six months.

00:38:09   - Which one?

00:38:09   - The Surface Pro 9.

00:38:11   I told you and John and Steven about three, four months,

00:38:16   three months in, I think.

00:38:20   - It kind of got to the point where,

00:38:21   I mean, we all knew you were doing something

00:38:24   because you kept teasing it on the shows and stuff anyway,

00:38:27   but there were, working with you,

00:38:30   a lot of hints that we could see.

00:38:32   Like I knew it was Windows because of the way

00:38:35   that some of your files were being named,

00:38:38   but I didn't guess the Surface.

00:38:39   I just thought you were working more from your Windows PC.

00:38:43   That's what I thought you were doing.

00:38:44   But there were things that were happening

00:38:47   where it was becoming increasingly more difficult

00:38:49   for you to keep it to yourself

00:38:51   from the people that were immediately around you.

00:38:53   - It was impossible to hide.

00:38:54   It was impossible to hide.

00:38:57   So let me start from the end.

00:38:59   - Oh, okay.

00:39:00   - That experiment is over.

00:39:01   Lasted for almost six months.

00:39:04   At the end, I realized why I prefer the Apple ecosystem,

00:39:08   why I prefer the iPad Pro.

00:39:11   And then of course, iPadOS 17 happened at WWDC.

00:39:14   Apple listened to my complaints.

00:39:16   I got my stage manager fixes.

00:39:18   Everything was good.

00:39:19   But even before WWDC, I had already reached the point

00:39:23   where I was like, yeah, I'm good.

00:39:25   I don't like working in this,

00:39:29   and I don't imagine myself working on this

00:39:31   as my only computer in my life.

00:39:33   But still, what will follow now is some,

00:39:37   a summary of what I learned in six months

00:39:40   in this experiment that was absolutely useful and fun.

00:39:45   And I think because of this experiment,

00:39:49   I think I'm a better writer

00:39:52   and just in general tech observer than I was before it.

00:39:57   And in general, it really helped sort of my,

00:40:01   like it did help my mental health in many ways.

00:40:05   Like just, I need to do this for myself.

00:40:09   Even if the content I write about will suffer

00:40:12   and my workflow will suffer, I just need to do this thing

00:40:15   because it's gonna help me.

00:40:17   And it did.

00:40:19   So for six months, I used the Surface.

00:40:22   And initially it was very challenging and exciting,

00:40:25   sort of exhilarating all at once

00:40:28   because it's a very different type of computer.

00:40:30   And I'm gonna go through the list of good things

00:40:33   about the Surface.

00:40:35   It runs Windows.

00:40:37   It's a tablet, it's a convertible tablet that runs Windows,

00:40:41   which means you can do whatever you want.

00:40:43   And the first reaction, like this,

00:40:45   the honeymoon period for the first month or so,

00:40:48   it's like, oh, this is incredible.

00:40:50   I can do whatever I want.

00:40:51   You can install multiple web browsers.

00:40:53   You can install all kinds of modern or legacy apps.

00:40:57   You have a terminal, you have a proper file manager.

00:41:00   You can do whatever you want.

00:41:02   It's a computer.

00:41:02   It's like Mac OS, but it's also a tablet, right?

00:41:06   So I can take it out of its keyboard case

00:41:08   and I can use it as a tablet, or I can, you know,

00:41:12   it's got a USB-C, it's got two USB-C ports

00:41:15   that support Thunderbolt.

00:41:19   So I can just use them with my studio display.

00:41:21   That's what I did for a long time.

00:41:22   I used the Surface Pro 9 with my CalDigi TS4 dock.

00:41:25   And because everything is Thunderbolt,

00:41:27   it just worked out of the box.

00:41:29   It was incredible.

00:41:30   It's a real computer running real apps,

00:41:34   different web browsers.

00:41:35   It makes you feel so empowered by this idea

00:41:39   of it's a true convertible, right?

00:41:43   It can be a laptop, it can be a desktop workstation,

00:41:46   it can be a tablet.

00:41:47   The multitasking is great.

00:41:50   I've always, I used to be a fan of Windows multitasking

00:41:53   before the Surface, and I came away from this experiment

00:41:57   liking it even more.

00:41:59   Even though obviously Sage Manager is in a much better spot

00:42:01   than it used to be last year,

00:42:03   the tile-based multitasking on Windows,

00:42:06   I'm really a fan of it,

00:42:07   especially because Microsoft themselves,

00:42:09   they make this utility called Windows PowerToys.

00:42:14   And PowerToys is like,

00:42:15   imagine if Apple made better touch tool, right?

00:42:18   It's a utility to enhance different parts

00:42:21   of the operating system.

00:42:22   And PowerToys has these additional tools for multitasking

00:42:26   to make your own presets, customize gestures,

00:42:29   customize hotkeys.

00:42:31   It's really well done.

00:42:32   If you're a power user, if you're a nerd,

00:42:34   and you wanna just play around with these things,

00:42:37   Surface lets you do this kind of custom enhancements

00:42:42   that you just can't do on an iPad Pro.

00:42:45   So the multitasking was great.

00:42:47   Having two USB supports was fantastic.

00:42:49   So you can plug in a Thunderbolt cable

00:42:52   to connect to a monitor into one port,

00:42:54   and maybe charge it or connect another accessory

00:42:59   in the other secondary port.

00:43:01   There's a built-in kickstand, which is great.

00:43:03   I mean, obviously, you know me.

00:43:05   Any device with a kickstand would get a good mark in my book,

00:43:10   but the kickstand here is just wild.

00:43:13   You can just flip it open.

00:43:14   Good quality, it's sturdy, it's easy to open,

00:43:18   lots of freedom in terms of viewing angles.

00:43:21   I really like it.

00:43:22   One of the things you can do with the Surface

00:43:24   is you can open it up and change its storage,

00:43:28   which I did in February.

00:43:31   I got, I don't remember, what's the type of storage,

00:43:34   like the solid state little flash card

00:43:37   that the Surface uses?

00:43:38   It's not an M? - An NAND?

00:43:40   - Yeah, no, but it's not an M2 SSD.

00:43:42   - Oh, it's the small, the really tiny one.

00:43:44   - The really tiny one.

00:43:45   So I got myself some thermal paste.

00:43:48   I opened the Surface.

00:43:49   I got the M2-2230.

00:43:53   Thank you, Zach.

00:43:54   - M.2-2230.

00:43:56   - That's the standard that it uses.

00:43:58   - M.2-2230, that's what it's known as in the industry.

00:44:02   - Got myself a one terabyte card.

00:44:05   I opened the Surface, applied some thermal paste to it.

00:44:08   And after-

00:44:09   - You put thermal paste?

00:44:11   - Yeah, you gotta put it.

00:44:12   - Hell yeah.

00:44:12   I know, I'm sure you do, but like,

00:44:14   I just love the idea of you using thermal paste.

00:44:16   I don't know why, it excites me.

00:44:17   - That's nice, it was nice.

00:44:19   So one of the things you can do, it's a computer.

00:44:22   You open it up, you change storage,

00:44:25   and you reinstall Windows, and you're done.

00:44:27   Then we get to the gaming part.

00:44:29   So as I was using the Surface, and I gotta say,

00:44:32   behind the scenes, I was talking to a friend of the show,

00:44:33   Steve John Smith.

00:44:35   Steve was a great help.

00:44:36   Steve was, I think, the first sort of, I mean,

00:44:41   beyond Sylvia, was the first internet person

00:44:45   that I know from my work to know about this experiment.

00:44:50   And Steve gave me a lot of tips.

00:44:54   And one day, I believe, maybe half jokingly,

00:44:58   Steven said, "Well, now that you have a Surface

00:45:00   and it's got Thunderbolt on it,

00:45:02   hey, maybe you should look into eGPUs."

00:45:05   And so I was like, "Hmm, that's an interesting idea."

00:45:08   So I started doing a lot of research, and I decided,

00:45:12   "Well, I wanna try this.

00:45:14   I wanna see what happens if I try to use my Surface."

00:45:19   The idea was, can I really use this as an all-in-one computer

00:45:24   for everything in my life?

00:45:25   Can it be a true convertible?

00:45:27   Can it be my tablet, my podcast computer?

00:45:31   Can it be a laptop?

00:45:32   Can it also be my gaming PC?

00:45:34   Can I really achieve this dream of the true convertible,

00:45:39   the true all-in-one?

00:45:41   So I got the Razer Core eGPU enclosure, a 3080 Ti,

00:45:47   and a five meter, is it five or three?

00:45:49   I don't remember.

00:45:50   But basically, an extra long Thunderbolt Pro cable

00:45:55   that Apple makes.

00:45:57   It's made by Apple.

00:45:58   I don't recall if the length is three meters or five meters.

00:46:01   Anyway, it was a really expensive cable

00:46:04   that I was able to, because initially, the setup was,

00:46:09   the eGPU was in the living room.

00:46:12   It was under my TV.

00:46:14   And I wanted to run a Thunderbolt cable from the eGPU

00:46:19   to the coffee table in front of my couch.

00:46:21   There, I would place the Surface and connect it to the eGPU

00:46:26   that was feeding the image to the TV.

00:46:30   And for months, that's how I played video games.

00:46:34   From February, when I got the eGPU, to May?

00:46:39   Yeah, that's how I played PC games in the living room

00:46:44   with the Surface running an eGPU.

00:46:46   And that whole experiment made me realize,

00:46:52   I've become one of the few eGPU diehard fans.

00:46:57   I just love it as an idea.

00:46:59   Even though I know there are so many compromises

00:47:02   with eGPUs.

00:47:03   One of them being, for example,

00:47:05   that you get a lot of Thunderbolt related bottlenecks

00:47:10   in terms of performance.

00:47:13   You lose, I would say, 30 to 40% the performance

00:47:17   of a graphics card when you run an eGPU

00:47:20   with a Microsoft Surface.

00:47:21   Even the latest version of the Surface Pro 9.

00:47:23   - What, is this Surface specific?

00:47:27   - It's Intel chip specific for the kind of architecture

00:47:32   and the kind of bandwidth that you have

00:47:36   for the Thunderbolt controller on the chip,

00:47:38   on the Intel chip.

00:47:40   There is, as we're gonna get to in a minute,

00:47:43   there is a way to improve things,

00:47:45   but because of Thunderbolt,

00:47:47   you are going to lose some performance with an eGPU.

00:47:52   There are ways to make it better, as we'll see in a minute,

00:47:55   but with Thunderbolt, you're gonna lose some performance.

00:47:58   There are some--

00:47:59   - Right, and is that the difference of like,

00:48:01   if it's PCI?

00:48:03   - If it's PCI, it's gonna be much better.

00:48:05   - Right, then if you're using Thunderbolt,

00:48:06   it's just got conflict.

00:48:08   In fact, eventually I hope I'll be able to someday try

00:48:12   the PCI based solution that Asus,

00:48:16   they have, Asus has a proprietary connector based on PCI,

00:48:21   and that's what they use for the ROG Ally,

00:48:24   and they have, Asus, they have their own custom branded

00:48:27   eGPU called the XG Mobile, and inside of it,

00:48:30   they have a 4090 laptop version,

00:48:35   and because of the PCI Express connection that they have,

00:48:38   they doesn't have the bottleneck,

00:48:40   the bottlenecks and the overhead that Thunderbolt has,

00:48:44   and this is a whole story, we can talk about,

00:48:48   there's a subreddit all about eGPUs,

00:48:51   a lot of people highly anticipating the rumored

00:48:55   Thunderbolt 5 standard that's coming out at some point,

00:48:58   we don't need to get into all of that, but still,

00:49:01   and we're still in the list of pros here,

00:49:04   the just playing video games with an eGPU,

00:49:07   just having a tablet that you connect a cable to it,

00:49:11   and you can play Amazon Ring on a TV,

00:49:13   or you can play, I was playing,

00:49:16   what did I play this spring?

00:49:19   Final Fantasy 7. - Cyberpunk?

00:49:20   - Cyberpunk, Final Fantasy 7 Crisis Core,

00:49:24   Octopath Traveler 2, like a lot of PC games

00:49:27   I just played on a surface with an eGPU,

00:49:30   and sure, it didn't have the same performance

00:49:32   of a desktop 3080 Ti, but it was also a tablet

00:49:37   that when I was done playing, I could just, you know,

00:49:40   put the cable away and get the surface.

00:49:42   - So by and large, you were playing with the surface

00:49:47   in the middle, right, like you weren't really playing

00:49:49   on the surface, you were just using the surface

00:49:51   and the eGPU on a bigger screen?

00:49:53   - Yeah. - Okay.

00:49:54   - Yeah, that's what I was doing.

00:49:55   Now there is some cons, the battery life sucks, man.

00:49:59   It's like, it is a, the thing is the iPad Pro runs cool,

00:50:04   gets warm if you're doing some intensive tasks,

00:50:09   but the battery life of the surface, it runs Windows

00:50:13   and Windows is very poorly optimized for tablets,

00:50:17   and it gets hot.

00:50:18   - Well, it's an Intel chip too, right?

00:50:20   Like it's a regular Intel chip. - It's an Intel chip.

00:50:21   - It's not like an ARM processor.

00:50:23   - It's not the ARM version, it's an Intel chip,

00:50:25   it gets hot, there's a fan inside, and it spins up

00:50:30   a lot of the time.

00:50:33   And really the general takeaway from using a surface

00:50:38   as a tablet is that it's not a great tablet.

00:50:42   And the tablet experience of a surface,

00:50:44   and really Windows in general, is kind of terrible.

00:50:48   Microsoft, they've been working over the past few

00:50:52   Windows releases to really optimize things for tablet usage

00:50:56   and for touch usage, but they still have such a long way

00:51:00   to go in terms of making an OS.

00:51:04   And this is what I came away with a newfound appreciation

00:51:09   for what Apple does.

00:51:12   Microsoft has such a long way to go in terms of making,

00:51:15   designing an OS that can comfortably switch from a pointer

00:51:20   with a trackpad to your finger to an Apple Pencil

00:51:25   as three different input methods.

00:51:29   The stylus that the surface has is horrible

00:51:34   compared to the Apple Pencil.

00:51:35   Nothing beats the Apple Pencil in terms of performance,

00:51:39   ease of use, the quality of the ink, the response time,

00:51:43   the lag, it's so much better.

00:51:47   And broadly speaking, just the surface is weird

00:51:52   when you hold it in portrait because of the form factor.

00:51:56   Sometimes the screen doesn't rotate

00:51:58   and you gotta reboot the computer to get it unstuck.

00:52:02   And just the tablet experience in general, it's not nice.

00:52:06   And you can tell that it's not made for your fingers.

00:52:09   There's no such concept of three, four, five finger

00:52:13   multi-touch gestures.

00:52:14   Just the whole tablet experience is very bad

00:52:19   compared to an iPad.

00:52:20   - And it's because, I mean, this is the thing

00:52:22   with Windows in general, they won't let go of Windows.

00:52:25   They refuse to let go of Windows.

00:52:27   That if Microsoft actually just decided to make

00:52:31   what Apple did, it would be nicer to use,

00:52:34   but then it wouldn't be much of a benefit over iPad OS.

00:52:36   This is their issue, right?

00:52:38   They can't let go of Windows 'cause then they have no apps.

00:52:41   They have to hold on to Windows,

00:52:43   but that means they then can't make the,

00:52:45   so is that they are in a constant balancing act

00:52:49   of how much can they give and how much can they lose?

00:52:53   - Yeah, exactly.

00:52:53   The display, just using a surface

00:52:59   and then going back to the iPad Pro,

00:53:00   you realize just how much better,

00:53:03   especially the display of the 12.9 inch iPad Pro is

00:53:07   compared to whatever the surface has.

00:53:09   It's got a high refresh rate, but it's not mini-LED.

00:53:13   And there's just something about the liquid retina display

00:53:16   of the iPad Pro that looks so much better.

00:53:18   The colors, the rounded corners,

00:53:21   it just looks like a much better display.

00:53:25   And the surface one looks cheap in comparison.

00:53:28   It doesn't have true tone.

00:53:30   It's all these things that makes you appreciate.

00:53:33   I know that it sounds obvious,

00:53:37   and I think you, like doing this experiment,

00:53:41   if you can afford it, or if you find your interest in,

00:53:44   I recommend it because it makes you appreciate

00:53:47   a lot of things that we just spoke about,

00:53:49   that Windows does and that the surface does,

00:53:51   but it also makes you appreciate a lot of these integrations

00:53:54   that Apple does with the hardware and the software.

00:53:57   And it's a trite thing to say, but it's true.

00:54:00   For example, and I think this is for me

00:54:03   the most important part in this list of cons,

00:54:09   just the app ecosystem is so much better on Apple platforms.

00:54:13   And this is not just about the iPad Pro,

00:54:16   but including the iPad Pro, just the whole thing with,

00:54:21   and that's in spite of the App Store,

00:54:23   but just on the iPad, there are nice apps.

00:54:28   And especially once you start considering Mac OS and iPad OS,

00:54:34   there's just so much choice,

00:54:36   especially if you are a creative person.

00:54:38   I couldn't find the equivalent

00:54:40   of something like Audio Hijack on Windows.

00:54:44   - No, I had so many problems with this with like,

00:54:47   so the F1 show I do with Austin Evans, we do that on PC.

00:54:53   Like I do it on PC 'cause we stream video too,

00:54:56   like we record video, it's just easier to use something

00:54:58   like OBS and that kind of stuff to make the videos with.

00:55:01   But we record the audio for the show there,

00:55:03   and I was spending a lot of time trying to find something,

00:55:05   and ultimately I just ended up using Audacity,

00:55:08   which is like fine, but there's no way of me doing

00:55:11   what I do with Audio Hijack.

00:55:12   So like on my Mac right now, I have a recording of me,

00:55:16   I have a recording of you as a backup,

00:55:18   and then I have the mixed recording of both of us happening

00:55:21   that Steven will use to line up all the editing and stuff.

00:55:23   There's just no way that I found to do that as easily

00:55:27   or even nearly as easily or even at all on Windows.

00:55:31   - All these apps for creatives,

00:55:34   whether it's for podcasters,

00:55:36   for audio professionals in general,

00:55:38   for text editors, menu bar apps, apps with widgets.

00:55:43   Like once you try Windows, you realize there's a ton

00:55:46   of web apps, which are great.

00:55:48   Some web apps are truly great,

00:55:51   but I learned something about myself,

00:55:53   which is I really just prefer the Apple ecosystem

00:55:58   and native apps and having all these different integrations,

00:56:01   having the share sheet, having extensions,

00:56:03   having a menu bar component, having shortcuts.

00:56:07   I tried to use the automation equivalent for Windows

00:56:13   made by Microsoft.

00:56:14   What's it called?

00:56:15   No, it's not called Flow.

00:56:16   They have something, Windows Power Automate maybe?

00:56:21   It was so confusing, even though it does have

00:56:23   some aspects to it that should be copied by Apple.

00:56:28   Like for example, you can make subroutines,

00:56:30   you can save templates and all that kind of stuff,

00:56:33   but the whole thing is just so, first of all,

00:56:37   ugly to look at.

00:56:38   It's just like a lot of Windows software is just ugly.

00:56:42   And it sounds silly, but, and again,

00:56:46   it comes down to maybe to a matter of taste.

00:56:51   One of the things that got me every single day

00:56:53   was the typography.

00:56:55   It looks so bad on Windows.

00:56:57   And then again, maybe taken individually,

00:57:01   all these things that I'm saying, they sound stupid.

00:57:04   But when you take them all together,

00:57:06   if these are those types of aspects of using a computer

00:57:11   that resonate with you, you try Windows for a while,

00:57:15   and I'm sure you will notice the same things I did.

00:57:20   So all these apps, like I missed shortcuts so much.

00:57:23   So many times I wanted to make something for myself

00:57:25   like a little tool to speed up something I wanted to do,

00:57:28   and I couldn't.

00:57:30   And it makes me sad that maybe Apple doesn't quite appreciate

00:57:34   what they have on their hands with shortcuts,

00:57:36   and other platforms don't,

00:57:38   at least not so well-designed or easy to use.

00:57:41   But broadly speaking, yeah, it was that.

00:57:44   Ultimately, at the end of these six months,

00:57:47   I felt like I needed to get this out of my system,

00:57:51   and I did, and I came away thinking,

00:57:54   I miss the Apple ecosystem,

00:57:56   and I needed to do this to relearn and re-appreciate

00:58:01   why I do what I do for a living,

00:58:07   what I like to write about, why I like the iPad so much.

00:58:12   But there were positives, right,

00:58:15   that I took out of this experiment,

00:58:16   one of them being, I know it's a very niche thing,

00:58:20   but I love eGPUs, just as a concept, as a thing.

00:58:23   Like, imagine the graphics card being its own modular thing.

00:58:27   It comes down to that, right?

00:58:29   It's that idea of modularity that really gets me.

00:58:32   So there will be a conclusion to the eGPU story in a minute.

00:58:36   But ultimately, I went back first to a MacBook Air,

00:58:41   and then in June, with iPadOS 17,

00:58:44   I knew, well, it's time to go back.

00:58:46   It's time to come home.

00:58:49   And I did, but I'm so glad that I did this experiment,

00:58:53   because it made me appreciate a lot of things.

00:58:55   I'm convinced that there are so many aspects of the surface

00:59:00   that Apple should consider,

00:59:01   whether it's the kickstand, the multiple USB-C ports,

00:59:05   a more open iPadOS,

00:59:06   even more flexibility for multitasking,

00:59:11   letting people install utilities like power toys

00:59:14   to customize their experience.

00:59:16   There's so many things that Apple should consider,

00:59:18   but ultimately, the app ecosystem, the polish, the design,

00:59:22   the hardware, the performance,

00:59:24   I just prefer the Apple stuff.

00:59:29   - And it's been super helpful, though,

00:59:31   that Apple has now gone ahead

00:59:32   and significantly improved Stage Manager,

00:59:35   which clearly, I know you know this, but you can look back,

00:59:38   and Stage Manager was the reason

00:59:40   this whole thing happened, right?

00:59:42   And so Stage Manager improving significantly

00:59:46   to be at least the bare minimum

00:59:48   that we expected it to be the first time around

00:59:52   has made this experience something you don't need,

00:59:57   which I think was something you felt before.

01:00:00   It was like a need rather than just an interest.

01:00:02   - Yeah, I needed to do this after last year.

01:00:05   If Stage Manager shipped like this,

01:00:09   I probably wouldn't have done it,

01:00:11   but this is not how these things work, right?

01:00:14   Sometimes you screw it up the first time

01:00:17   and you gotta fix it the following year,

01:00:19   and that's what happened.

01:00:21   But hey, I learned a lot of things,

01:00:23   and I tried so many different apps and web services.

01:00:26   I tried, again, Todoist, Notion.

01:00:28   Obsidian obviously was on Windows.

01:00:31   It was useful.

01:00:32   It was a very useful experiment.

01:00:33   The eGPU is still with me,

01:00:36   and in fact, it's better than ever.

01:00:38   It's now under my desk,

01:00:40   so it moved from the living room to the office,

01:00:43   and it doesn't connect to a Surface anymore.

01:00:48   I got an Intel NUC.

01:00:50   I got an Intel NUC Pro, the latest gen,

01:00:52   with the 13th generation Intel chips,

01:00:56   64 gigs of RAM, and one terabyte storage.

01:00:59   And this is now my gaming PC.

01:01:01   Connected to the eGPU, it does have Thunderbolt obviously,

01:01:05   connected to the eGPU, and connected to the video switch,

01:01:08   so that's how I play PC games.

01:01:11   I know this is probably the last in the NUC dynasty

01:01:15   because Intel has officially stopped making these,

01:01:18   so the NUC 13 Pro that I have is the last of its kind.

01:01:22   And eventually, when this is not enough anymore,

01:01:27   I'll probably just get another,

01:01:30   at some point realistically maybe in the next-

01:01:31   - A small form factor, come on, baby.

01:01:33   You're so close, Federico, to a small form factor PC.

01:01:36   - I know, let me use this.

01:01:37   Let me use this for a couple of years.

01:01:39   - Yeah, so I mean, use that, right?

01:01:42   And you just keep doing your thing for now.

01:01:43   - This is my plan.

01:01:44   - And then next time, we're small form factoring.

01:01:47   - Yeah, but I can tell you that by going from the Surface

01:01:51   to the NUC, the eGPU alone has seen a 25% performance

01:01:56   increase. - Huh.

01:01:57   - The numbers that I get with the eGPU now are essentially

01:02:02   in the ballpark of a proper desktop 3080 Ti.

01:02:05   They're like 10% under it, so it's pretty good

01:02:09   for being an eGPU powered by Thunderbolt.

01:02:12   I ran a lot of benchmarks with 3DMark on Windows,

01:02:15   and they are, I would say, from 10 to 12% under

01:02:20   the performance of a proper desktop 3080 Ti.

01:02:23   They got a big jump by going from the limited system

01:02:28   on a chip of the Surface Pro 9 to the proper desktop version

01:02:32   13th Gen Intel chip in the NUC.

01:02:36   And it's also a matter of cooling because the Surface

01:02:38   would throttle the system aggressively.

01:02:40   When it got too hot, the NUC has multiple fans inside.

01:02:45   So yeah, I'm pretty happy right now with this setup,

01:02:48   and I think I'll use it for the next few years.

01:02:51   But yeah, eventually, I think in the future,

01:02:54   I will get a small factor PC for sure, but not right now.

01:02:58   I don't want to.

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01:05:08   - All right, we're doing a lot of gaming talk today.

01:05:10   Talk around gaming today, I want to actually have

01:05:13   a gaming conversation now with you because Steven's

01:05:15   not here so we're just gonna do it.

01:05:16   - Okay.

01:05:17   - Starfield.

01:05:19   So if you don't know, Starfield is the next big RPG

01:05:23   coming from Bethesda Game Studios, who are owned

01:05:26   by Microsoft.

01:05:27   As we started recording today, Federico, I don't know

01:05:30   if you saw, but it seems like some kind of resolution

01:05:33   has been drawn for the Microsoft Activision.

01:05:37   - Yeah, they're gonna sell the cloud gaming.

01:05:39   - They're gonna license the cloud gaming to Ubisoft.

01:05:41   I don't fully understand how this is gonna happen.

01:05:44   - They're gonna license it?

01:05:45   Okay.

01:05:46   - Yes, they're licensing to Ubisoft and then like,

01:05:51   Ubisoft will give it back, I'm confused about this,

01:05:53   it's complicated, it happened just before we started

01:05:55   recording, I'll read about this later on.

01:05:57   It's very strange, but this was something that I was

01:06:00   hearing people like Ben Thompson talk about,

01:06:01   it was like a possibility here, but it seems like

01:06:04   they might be doing it worldwide rather than a little bit,

01:06:06   anyway, doesn't matter.

01:06:07   So let's talk about Starfield though.

01:06:09   It is, this, you know, on the face of it, this game

01:06:15   is, you know, could be the biggest RPG like in size ever,

01:06:20   it is seemingly like trying to deliver upon the promise

01:06:24   of no man's sky, right, like there are all these planets,

01:06:27   you can go to them, there's stories on a bunch of them,

01:06:29   they're being very open that like there isn't story

01:06:32   on all of them, but there's things you can do

01:06:33   on all of the planets and it's got, you know,

01:06:36   base building, ship building, dogfights in ships,

01:06:41   stories on the ground, you know, there are these whole

01:06:43   planets, there's this whole universe, you can go and do

01:06:45   anything you want to within this space.

01:06:49   Are you excited about Starfield?

01:06:51   - I am very excited about Starfield, but also scared

01:06:55   at the same time, so let me contextualize,

01:06:58   I am intentionally going into Starfield knowing

01:07:02   very little of it.

01:07:03   - Well, there isn't a lot to know.

01:07:04   (laughing)

01:07:05   - I didn't even watch the gameplay reveal video.

01:07:07   - Oh, okay.

01:07:08   - Yeah, yeah, I don't wanna know, I don't wanna know.

01:07:11   That's also what I did for Zelda this year,

01:07:15   like I just, I wanna know as little as possible,

01:07:18   but I am, and maybe here you can help me,

01:07:22   I am unsure which format to play and at the same time,

01:07:27   I am scared because that's, when it comes out,

01:07:30   those will be the days when I will have to finish

01:07:34   my iOS review, so very conflicted, very mixed feelings

01:07:39   right now at the moment.

01:07:41   - Yeah, 'cause it comes out, it's complicated.

01:07:44   The first time that it can be played is next Friday,

01:07:48   the first of September.

01:07:49   - I cannot, how can you play next Friday?

01:07:53   - By buying it.

01:07:54   - By buying it.

01:07:56   - Okay, so this is going to be on Game Pass.

01:07:59   - Okay.

01:08:00   - It will be on Game Pass on the quote unquote release date,

01:08:04   which is September 6th, but if you buy the game,

01:08:08   like you actually, and you buy from the premium edition up,

01:08:13   the premium edition's like $100 or whatever,

01:08:15   and it comes with a bunch of extras,

01:08:18   you get five days early access.

01:08:20   - So this is not a physical copy, right?

01:08:22   This is like a digital download.

01:08:24   - Digital premium edition.

01:08:25   There are physical premium editions,

01:08:28   but there is also the digital premium edition,

01:08:31   which you can play up to five days early access.

01:08:34   - Digital premium edition up to five days early access.

01:08:38   - Starting on the first of September, that will be,

01:08:42   and it's also available for preloading now,

01:08:45   so you can download the game.

01:08:47   It's like 140 gigabytes.

01:08:48   It's massive.

01:08:50   So you want to preload it.

01:08:53   I have bought it for the early access.

01:08:56   - Okay, okay, yeah, I'll probably do the same.

01:08:59   Did you get it on Steam?

01:09:01   - No.

01:09:02   - No.

01:09:03   - I bought it on-

01:09:05   - On your Xbox?

01:09:06   - On my Xbox.

01:09:07   So I can also play it on Xbox for PC.

01:09:12   - Okay, okay, okay.

01:09:15   - This is very confusing the way that this works,

01:09:18   but there is an Xbox app on the PC

01:09:21   where you can play Game Pass games

01:09:23   and you can also play games you have bought on Xbox.

01:09:28   - Yeah, sure, yes.

01:09:29   - Right, so I have bought that

01:09:31   and I'm going to be playing it on both.

01:09:33   There is, for reasons that will become apparent next week,

01:09:36   I want to be able to stream the game in early September.

01:09:40   And so I want to be able to have that open to me

01:09:43   from first of September, which is why I bought it.

01:09:45   'Cause I do also play for Game Pass.

01:09:47   I wouldn't do this otherwise.

01:09:49   I'd probably just wait

01:09:50   unless the reviews are like astronomical, right?

01:09:53   - Yeah.

01:09:54   - I'm expecting good reviews.

01:09:57   - Oh, me too.

01:09:58   - Eight's, nine's out of 10.

01:10:00   That's where I think this is going to land.

01:10:01   - I mean, you know, this is going to be the game that,

01:10:04   like right now, and I think the game of the year contenders

01:10:08   are probably at least four.

01:10:09   I would say Zelda, Starfield, Baldur's Gate 3,

01:10:13   and Resident Evil 4 remake.

01:10:15   I think judging from-

01:10:17   - I think Resident Evil's not going to be in the actual,

01:10:19   like it will be in the like Game Awards,

01:10:21   but it's not going to be it.

01:10:22   - It'll be considered, I don't think it's going to be either.

01:10:24   - I think at this point,

01:10:26   it probably between Zelda and Baldur's Gate.

01:10:28   - Yeah, at this point, yes.

01:10:30   - Because Baldur's Gate has the surprise factor

01:10:33   of it being so good.

01:10:34   I have not played Baldur's Gate yet,

01:10:36   but I actually do want to play it before the year is over.

01:10:38   I'm not sure if I'm going to like it or not,

01:10:40   because I typically-

01:10:41   - Neither do I.

01:10:42   - Yeah, because I never played, this is a confession,

01:10:46   I've never played D&D in my life.

01:10:49   - That is not a big confession, most people haven't.

01:10:51   - Really?

01:10:52   I feel like in our circles, it's-

01:10:54   - It's becoming more popular than ever, but most people,

01:10:56   you know, like, yes, I know what you mean.

01:10:58   Like maybe in our circle, it's becoming more and more like,

01:11:02   but I doubt Steven's played D&D.

01:11:04   So on this show, it's only me that's played it.

01:11:07   But everything I've heard suggests that Baldur's Gate

01:11:10   really is best on PC, that like the mechanics of the game

01:11:14   don't lend themselves very well to controllers.

01:11:17   So playing it on the Steam Deck is possible

01:11:21   and like very doable, but like there's a lot of like

01:11:24   radial dials for things where it's like way easier

01:11:27   to just click.

01:11:28   - Oh no, but I'm not going to play with a mouse.

01:11:31   - Right.

01:11:32   - I'm going to, yeah.

01:11:33   - But you can play with a controller and like,

01:11:34   it's an experience that you can enjoy.

01:11:36   - I have the Starfield controller.

01:11:38   - Well, no, I'm talking about Baldur's Gate.

01:11:40   - Oh, okay.

01:11:41   - We'll come back to Starfield in a second.

01:11:42   Baldur's Gate specifically is better.

01:11:45   - Oh yeah, I've seen those menus.

01:11:46   Yeah, I've seen those menus, yeah.

01:11:48   - So who knows, but for Starfield, everything I,

01:11:52   all the investigations that I've been doing

01:11:54   would seem to suggest there is cross-play,

01:11:58   like cross-saving.

01:11:59   So like you can play on your Xbox

01:12:02   and you can play on your PC.

01:12:04   - Okay.

01:12:05   - It should keep your progression in check.

01:12:07   Like I've done a bunch of research for as much as I can do

01:12:10   and it seems to suggest that that's the case

01:12:12   because that will be my, what I will want to do.

01:12:15   Like what, if I'm enjoying this game,

01:12:18   what I will probably do is take my Xbox Series S home

01:12:22   and play on my PC at the studio.

01:12:25   - Yeah, good idea.

01:12:25   - Like I want to play it on Steam Deck,

01:12:27   but I actually don't think it will work on Steam Deck.

01:12:29   This is also the investigations that I've done

01:12:31   that like the minimum system requirements are too high.

01:12:35   For the Steam Deck, which I think is a--

01:12:36   - That's too bad.

01:12:37   - From Bethesda, I think that that's a shame.

01:12:41   Like I consider that to be a bit of a shame.

01:12:43   - I wonder if maybe a rogue ally

01:12:47   will support the Starfield.

01:12:50   - You know what, probably.

01:12:53   I reckon maybe a handheld will make this game work, but--

01:12:57   - One of the many Aneos.

01:12:59   - One of the six Aneos released this week, make control.

01:13:03   This is like, if you know about Aneo,

01:13:05   they're like a company that makes handheld games.

01:13:07   This is an ongoing joke between me Federico and John Voorhees

01:13:10   that like every week there's a new Aneo

01:13:13   and we always find them and send them to each other

01:13:14   because it's constant. - And there is one every week.

01:13:16   - Yeah, and there was one today.

01:13:17   Today there's a new Aneo.

01:13:19   They announced them and before they ship,

01:13:22   there's always another one that I've announced.

01:13:24   It is unbelievable, this company.

01:13:27   Like I don't understand how they make any money

01:13:29   because they're always releasing new hardware.

01:13:32   - But yeah, my kind of plan,

01:13:34   I also have the Starfield controller for my Xbox,

01:13:37   which is awesome.

01:13:38   - But I can stream from the PC to the Steam Deck

01:13:43   if I wanna play in the bedroom at night.

01:13:45   - Yes.

01:13:46   - You know, Steam, what's it called?

01:13:48   It's not called Steam stream.

01:13:49   What's it called?

01:13:50   Steam-- - Steam link?

01:13:51   - Steam link, Steam stream.

01:13:53   - But that's if you have the Steam version

01:13:55   where I'm deciding to go for the Xbox version.

01:13:57   - Yeah, so you always gotta play in front of my TV.

01:14:00   That's it.

01:14:00   - Unless, unless, unless, will it support cloud gaming?

01:14:05   Well, is that something you could do?

01:14:09   - I think yes is the answer to that question.

01:14:12   - That's something you could do.

01:14:13   - That's something I could do.

01:14:15   - Yeah.

01:14:15   - That is something I could do.

01:14:16   I'll look into that, but I'm gonna say,

01:14:17   'cause again, like my hype levels are mid to high

01:14:22   for Starfield.

01:14:24   - Mid to high, yeah, I would agree with that.

01:14:25   - Mid to high because I've played Bethesda RPGs.

01:14:30   I've never been like thrilled with them, right?

01:14:34   Like I've played like Elder Scrolls, I've played Fallout.

01:14:38   Like I've played them.

01:14:40   They've never truly grabbed me,

01:14:43   but this one thematically does, right?

01:14:46   Like I'm more interested in space

01:14:49   than high fantasy or apocalypse.

01:14:53   Like I'm more interested in like just space as a theme.

01:14:57   And it seems like they've done a lot of work

01:14:59   on their like combat, like on the gunplay

01:15:03   and the physical combat compared to a Fallout game,

01:15:06   which, and you can play in third and first person.

01:15:10   You've got a mixture of that, which is good.

01:15:12   I'm intrigued more about this than I am maybe other games.

01:15:16   And so like for me, it's kind of like,

01:15:17   well, I have my plan of how to play it.

01:15:19   And I have my like staged plan of if I'm hooked on it,

01:15:23   then I'll, and then the ultimate is like,

01:15:25   if this is like a game that I can't stop playing,

01:15:27   I'll find a way to play on my Steam Deck.

01:15:29   Because I think I spoke about this on the show,

01:15:31   like at home now, I don't know why,

01:15:34   but like I don't really like to take up the main TV.

01:15:38   - Understandable, yeah, I have the same problem.

01:15:40   - Four games.

01:15:41   Like I like my games now to be more of a me experience

01:15:45   than an experience for everyone.

01:15:47   - That's why I don't play PlayStation games as much anymore.

01:15:50   - Same, and I will be a day one buyer of that project queue

01:15:55   for this reason.

01:15:56   - I was literally gonna say the same thing.

01:15:58   Thank you, yes, me too.

01:15:59   - Do we know when it's coming out?

01:16:01   - I reckon it's before the end of the year.

01:16:03   I am desperately hoping it's before Spider-Man.

01:16:05   - Yeah, oh, I mean, it's gotta be.

01:16:07   Because I know that with PlayStation Remote Play,

01:16:10   yes, you can use your phone and yes,

01:16:12   you can use apps on your Steam Deck,

01:16:14   like Chiaki, for example,

01:16:16   is something that I have on my Steam Deck to Remote Play.

01:16:18   But you know, you know, it's not gonna be as native

01:16:22   and as integrated as that little thing that Sony is making,

01:16:25   which doesn't have a name yet beyond,

01:16:28   is it actually called project queue?

01:16:30   - That's the name that they have.

01:16:31   It's not gonna be released as that, I don't think.

01:16:34   Unless they just feel like it's like really hit with people.

01:16:39   But and like, you know, say something like Spider-Man,

01:16:41   right, I'm going to want to experience visuals and sound.

01:16:46   Right, I'm gonna want to experience that for sure.

01:16:50   But not, I don't want it to be my only way

01:16:54   I can play the game, right?

01:16:56   Like, and it'd be the same for Starfield.

01:16:57   Like, I will want to experience it on my PC

01:17:00   at like maximum settings, right,

01:17:01   with headphones on and really get the full experience.

01:17:04   But I don't want it to be the only way

01:17:06   that I can experience the game.

01:17:07   Like, if I'm like, you know, in an environment

01:17:10   or if I come at home and it's just me,

01:17:11   like Adina's doing whatever,

01:17:13   like she's in her office or whatever,

01:17:14   then yeah, I'll put it on the TV and I'll play it.

01:17:16   But if she comes downstairs,

01:17:17   well, let me bring it to something

01:17:18   that's more personal to me.

01:17:19   And it's just easier that way.

01:17:20   Like, that's what I like.

01:17:21   And that's how I would experience something like Spider-Man,

01:17:24   which I'm more excited for Spider-Man

01:17:26   than I am for Starfield, just for me,

01:17:29   of like right now with not knowing anything.

01:17:31   Like, I could imagine, you know,

01:17:32   if Starfield comes out and it's nines and tens out of 10,

01:17:35   my hype level will increase, right?

01:17:37   Like, because I'm expecting this to be a really good game.

01:17:41   I think there is way too much expectation on this game.

01:17:43   I think it's going to probably fall prey

01:17:46   to some of the issues that Bethesda games have.

01:17:49   This game has too much hype on it to have those,

01:17:52   but I don't know, we'll see.

01:17:54   Maybe it will blow everybody away.

01:17:55   But like, I'm pretty excited about it.

01:17:57   - Me too, me too.

01:17:58   And I'm pleased you have those same thoughts that I have

01:18:03   about like, in terms of these days,

01:18:05   and this is something that I'm sure the Nintendo Switch,

01:18:08   the Nintendo Switch helped change over the past years.

01:18:11   Like this new perspective of,

01:18:13   I want to play the same video game in multiple flavors,

01:18:17   if you will, like in different contexts,

01:18:19   which is not something I, when I was growing up,

01:18:22   that was just not a thing.

01:18:24   The place where you got the game was where you played it.

01:18:28   So it was a Game Boy, it was always on the Game Boy.

01:18:30   It was on, you know, on the PlayStation,

01:18:32   it was always on the TV and so forth.

01:18:34   But now this like, this sort of more fluid approach

01:18:38   to like, yeah, sometimes I want to play on my phone.

01:18:40   Sometimes I want to play on a portable console.

01:18:42   Other times on a TV, sometimes on a PC,

01:18:44   like, and I love it, I love it.

01:18:46   And so that's my plan for "Starfield 2."

01:18:49   I'm probably going to get it on Steam, playing in the office,

01:18:54   and figure out the streaming situation

01:18:56   for the Steam Deck, I think.

01:18:59   And I had one more question for you.

01:19:03   After beating the main story of "Zelda,"

01:19:07   have you found yourself revisiting "Zelda"

01:19:09   for doing like, hmm, interesting, interesting?

01:19:12   - I played it a little bit for some time,

01:19:15   like a few hours, and then I had other games

01:19:19   that I wanted to play.

01:19:20   So like when "Breath of the Wild" came out,

01:19:23   it was all I wanted to play, it was all I really had.

01:19:25   But there was, I had a couple of games in my queue,

01:19:28   like "Dave the Diver," like I really wanted to play

01:19:30   "Dave the Diver." - Yeah, I'm playing that too.

01:19:31   It's so fun. - It's fantastic.

01:19:33   I'm having a great time with that game.

01:19:35   My plan for "Zelda" is I will come back to "Zelda"

01:19:39   - With the DLC. - either randomly or with DLC.

01:19:41   'Cause there's still stuff I want to do in the game,

01:19:44   I just have other stuff that I want to play,

01:19:46   and I felt much more satisfied with the end

01:19:51   when I finished "Tears of the Kingdom"

01:19:53   than I was with "Breath of the Wild."

01:19:55   - I was a proper conclusion. - Yeah.

01:19:57   There was an end, an actual real story conclusion

01:20:00   than like, hey, you did it, that's it.

01:20:03   Where like, I feel like, I really feel like I got

01:20:05   exactly what I wanted from "Tears of the Kingdom,"

01:20:08   but I still spent like multiple hours

01:20:10   still like going around afterwards.

01:20:13   But then I was like, all right,

01:20:14   I'm going to put this away for now,

01:20:15   I'm going to pick up some other games.

01:20:16   I'll come back to "Tears of the Kingdom" later on.

01:20:18   But like, you know, I've played more than enough

01:20:20   of that game to know it's my favorite game of all time.

01:20:23   Like, it's easy.

01:20:25   Yeah, I want to revisit it.

01:20:27   I just felt like I needed a little pallet cleanser

01:20:29   after "Zelda," so that's why I picked up

01:20:31   "Pokemon Scarlet" again for a while,

01:20:34   because I still, I realized I still had to unlock

01:20:38   six-star and seven-star raids,

01:20:41   because I never did that part of the story,

01:20:43   let alone the Pok√©dex.

01:20:44   But I don't know if I'm going to have the time for it.

01:20:46   There's a DLC coming out of that in September too,

01:20:48   which I want to play.

01:20:49   So yeah, see, the thing is, this year is kind of,

01:20:52   it's kind of insane for video games.

01:20:55   There's so much stuff like "Baldur's Gate,"

01:20:56   "Starfield," "Zelda," "Pokemon" DLC.

01:21:00   There's all these indie games on the Steam Deck,

01:21:02   including "Dave the Diver," which I'm playing right now.

01:21:05   I still want to play "Resident Evil 4."

01:21:07   There's a new "Spider-Man" coming out.

01:21:09   It's been a pretty good year for video games,

01:21:11   and as always, the problem is--

01:21:12   - You are forgetting "Super Mario Wonder."

01:21:16   - Oh my God, yes.

01:21:17   - "Super Mario RPG."

01:21:19   - Is that this year?

01:21:21   - Both this year.

01:21:23   - I totally forgot about those games.

01:21:24   Yeah, I did. I did forget about those games.

01:21:26   - "Allen Wake," which I'm intrigued about,

01:21:28   but it might be too scary for me.

01:21:29   - Oh no, that's too scary, too spooky for me.

01:21:30   No.

01:21:31   - Maybe that will be a game where I watch a playthrough,

01:21:35   I think is probably what I'll do with "Allen Wake."

01:21:37   There's so many games still yet.

01:21:39   - "Final Fantasy XVI," I forgot.

01:21:41   Oh my God, I still need to play that.

01:21:43   - You haven't played "Final Fantasy XVI?"

01:21:44   - No, no.

01:21:45   What was I doing?

01:21:47   Playing "Zelda."

01:21:48   - This is what COVID did to the game industry.

01:21:50   It put all the games into "Totoku 2023."

01:21:51   - Yeah, I mean, they could have staggered

01:21:52   this releases though.

01:21:53   - Sometimes you've just got to get it out, right?

01:21:58   Just, you've been working on it.

01:22:01   It's like two years delayed.

01:22:02   You've got to put it out so you can start

01:22:05   on your next thing.

01:22:06   - "Starfield." That's it.

01:22:08   - That's it.

01:22:10   I think next week, all three of us will be together,

01:22:12   but who could tell?

01:22:13   - That should be the plan, yes.

01:22:15   - I mean, eventually it's got to happen

01:22:17   because like at some point,

01:22:18   it's probably within the next three or four weeks,

01:22:20   we'll be doing the "Rickeys."

01:22:22   - Oh my, it's that time again.

01:22:24   I can't believe it, yeah.

01:22:26   - If you want to find us online,

01:22:27   you can find Federico over at maxstories.net.

01:22:30   That's where you'll find Federico's work.

01:22:32   He is also on Mastodon as @Fittichi

01:22:35   on mastodon.maxstories.net.

01:22:38   You can find my work here on Relay FM

01:22:40   and also at cortexbrand.com.

01:22:42   And I am on Mastodon at mike.social as @imike, I-M-Y-K-E.

01:22:47   Our wonderful editor and co-host

01:22:49   who will be returning next time is Steven Hackett.

01:22:52   He is over at 512pixels on eworld.social as @ismh.

01:22:56   We are all kind of asterisk on threads.

01:22:59   Federico is on threads.

01:23:00   He is @Fittichi, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:23:03   I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E.

01:23:05   Steven is @ismh86.

01:23:07   This will never not make me laugh.

01:23:09   Did you see there's an hour of threads web app?

01:23:12   I'm excited to use that.

01:23:13   - I just, I saw the link appear in our group thread.

01:23:16   - I wonder if that will provide you any more luck.

01:23:18   - I can try shortly and I'll let you know.

01:23:21   - Thank you to our sponsors this week,

01:23:23   the fine folk over at Factor, CleanMyMac X and Vitaly.

01:23:27   Thank you to our members who support us with Connect2Pro.

01:23:30   Go to getconnect2pro.co

01:23:32   and buy a ticket for our London live show next July.

01:23:35   Tickets are on sale now at relay.fm/london.

01:23:39   We'll look forward to seeing you there.

01:23:42   Until next time, say goodbye Federico.

01:23:44   - Arrivederci.