463: GOD SAVE THE KING, BABY

0:00:00[Music]

0:00:08From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 463. Today's show is brought to you by NetSuite,

0:00:15Squarespace and ZocDoc. I am Relay FM co-founder Mike Hurley and I am joined by Relay FM co-founder

0:00:21Stephen Hackett. Hello Michael. Hello, it's a special day today. It is. This week marks Relay

0:00:29FM's ninth birthday. It's actually on the 18th, so it's on Friday, but we are going to do our,

0:00:37I'm going to call this mostly annual, you can get into those details in a second,

0:00:40mostly annual Relay Q&A. This has taken different forms over the years, but we are here on a

0:00:49podcast. Federico is still on vacation and we thought, hey, let's do it on Connected.

0:00:53Perfect excuse to do a co-founder Q&A. Yeah, I think so.

0:00:59Speaking about what you just mentioned, so Kate said, please link to all of the other Q&A's to

0:01:04make them easier to find. Thank you. So in the show notes, there will be a link to all of the

0:01:08Q&A's that we have done. So this goes back to like the first one was we did a Q&A for the launch week

0:01:13and then we did one on our first year, second year, third year. So like the second year was

0:01:18a B-sides or the first year was a B-sides, second and third were on Connected. 2017,

0:01:25we did a YouTube video because we were in person. Then 2018 and 2019 were from Connected.

0:01:31And then 2020, we did the Q&A and announcement of the podcastathon on our Departures feed.

0:01:40And then there was also another one in 2021 in the Departures feed, which is a feed that we use for

0:01:50some like ancillary live shows, podcastathon audio for Sicko's goes up there if you want to listen to

0:01:56the podcastathon. I don't know who's doing that. There was no public Q&A in 2022 though. Oh,

0:02:04what do we have to hide? Well, we recorded an episode of Backstage on the day. Backstage is

0:02:10a show that we do every month where we answer questions from the Relay FM community, which is,

0:02:17if you become a member, you can go to, if you subscribe to Connected Pro, get connected pro.co,

0:02:22you get access to Backstage. The eighth year, which was last year, I remember it was basically,

0:02:28we both kind of forgot, like after a certain point, you don't really, eight years of a company

0:02:34existing. You kind of start to not really think about it in the same way. But now on the ninth

0:02:39year, we're looking forward to the 10th year. So it's in our minds again. So that's why we're doing

0:02:43it today. I'm glad you did all the work to find those. I opened the document this morning and I

0:02:50was going to do, I was going to sit down like, "Okay, let me find all these." And it was already

0:02:53done. So thank you. Well, I was able to use my past self in a way because I've done this before,

0:03:01like linked to the previous ones from a previous one. So that helped me a lot. But then I had to

0:03:07do some like archeology to try and work out what happened in 2022. And so I ended up working that

0:03:14one out. That's hilarious. So yeah, we're going to do a bunch of Q and A today. And I think we

0:03:21start with this question from Aaron. What do you think? Yeah. Aaron asks, "Will there be a 10th

0:03:25anniversary gathering or event like you did for the fifth anniversary?" Steven, what did we do on

0:03:30our fifth anniversary? Our fifth anniversary, we held a live show in San Francisco and a bunch of

0:03:36relay hosts showed up and we played a big game of Family Feud. And that is exactly what we're going

0:03:44to do next summer. But instead of San Francisco, we're going to do it in London. God save the king,

0:03:53baby. We're doing it. Oh, I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Me too. It's coming in July, right? July

0:04:012024. We will be hosting our first live show outside of the United States of America. And it's

0:04:10going to be in my hometown. Yes. In a theater that you picked. Yes. Which I was so glad it worked out

0:04:17that we got to use your first choice. Yep. So here's how this is going to work. We're announcing

0:04:23it today because this question was asked. Aaron forced our hand. If you are a Relay FM member,

0:04:31you're going to get a link in Discord and in your email on Friday, August 18th. That is our

0:04:38actual anniversary. That is a link to buy tickets. Again, this is in July 2024 in London. The link

0:04:46will have all the details, but members will get that on Friday. If you're not a Relay FM member,

0:04:54you're going to have to wait to the next week. So starting on probably Monday, I think probably

0:04:59on upgrade will be the first time you talk about it. Then those will go out to the public. But you

0:05:04want to be a member and get in early. Yep. And that's the first time. We're not going to talk

0:05:09about now where it is. It's in a theater in London. It's an amazing theater. We'll have more

0:05:14to say about that. But Steven's coming over to London. A selection of Relay FM hosts will be

0:05:19coming. There's logistics to happen, but there's going to be a bunch of hosts there. And we plan to

0:05:24play another game in front of a live audience. I guess we'll talk about this a little bit more,

0:05:30but just as a while we're trying to pitch you on the idea of why you should come, it's going to be

0:05:35our biggest live show ever. If you sell out. Yeah, please. It's the biggest we've ever played in.

0:05:39And we're kind of approaching this show a little bit differently to we have other shows.

0:05:45There won't be video. The reason there won't be video is because the cost of doing video was

0:05:51astronomically high with this venue. So we're not going to be doing video because we just can't make

0:05:56it work. Yeah, we will be recording audio, but this show is going to be made primarily for the

0:06:04people in the room, which is not necessarily a mindset that we've had before, where we've also

0:06:10put a ton of effort into making sure we have good clean audio. The venue will be recording audio,

0:06:16but we will be using the equipment the venue provides us. So it's going to be a slightly

0:06:20different. We don't know how it's going to come out, but like there will suddenly be no live

0:06:24stream. Like if you want the best experience for this event, you want to be there, right?

0:06:32100%. That's going to be so good. It's going to be sick.

0:06:36So thank you. Thank you for the first question. We're off to a real bang. What can we announce

0:06:42next? Nothing yet. Nothing yet. It is hilarious like this, this time of years when we're getting

0:06:49ready for podcastathon stuff. We've got some questions about that later on, but like my brain

0:06:54is just occupied by this live show right now. And it's because it's this ticket sales for that come

0:07:00first. Once we get over that, then I can start like properly thinking about the fact that we

0:07:05have a whole fundraiser to run through an entire month. Yeah. In fact, when we were working with

0:07:08the venue on when tickets were going to go up, I was like, Hey, they have to be up this date

0:07:13because then we have a bunch of other stuff that we have to do, uh, basically immediately after.

0:07:19And then, so you'll be hearing about it for like, we're going to talk about it a bunch for a week,

0:07:23and then probably won't talk about it all for September. And if, if tickets are still available,

0:07:27they probably will be, we'll be talking about it then for like seven months or something until all

0:07:32the tickets are sold. London baby! Come on, Steven. I'm so excited. And I'm so thankful.

0:07:40So excited that we're able to do this and that you, uh, as the executive of live events agreed

0:07:46that London was a good venue for the 10th anniversary. You know, it's been a while since

0:07:50we've done live events and actually my title has changed a little bit. Okay. It's executive

0:07:56senior vice president and COO of live events. Okay. I got a bump. Wait, why can't, why, why are

0:08:05you just the chief? Who's the CEO of live events then? Uh, well, that's, um, that's a good point.

0:08:12That's a good point. You messed that one up. Well, you're the CEO of the company,

0:08:17right? I guess we don't really have titles like this, but yeah. CEO of live events.

0:08:22But you are, you are COO and executive senior vice president of live events. You just,

0:08:28you just got the wrong way around because it makes it sound like you're second in command to yourself.

0:08:33I needed somebody I could trust in the role. I learned from Dwight Schrute, you know,

0:08:39you gotta have a second. And we saw in succession what happens when there's arguments about this.

0:08:45And when people are in charge of live events, that's why we're not going into the cruise line

0:08:50business. That's for sure. So as CEO, I have some news for you. Oh no. The SS relay is pulling into

0:08:57port right now. The whole thing is slate colored. Okay. Oh, that would be pretty sick though, right?

0:09:03I know it would be pretty sick. We're not going to do that. We should buy a boat.

0:09:08The 11th anniversary show at sea. That's what we're announcing today.

0:09:12That sounds terrible. I basically get seasick in the bathtub, so I won't be there.

0:09:17Morgan asks, where does that switch on thing come from? And why is Kathy the only person to ever

0:09:24use it? I will now ask Zach's question because they go together. Zach asks, do you regret my

0:09:29question about switch on on the connected Q and A four years ago? Yeah. Can you explain what switch

0:09:34on is then talk about why Kathy's the only person to use it? So switch on is the rarely used tagline.

0:09:43If you go to the relay website, it's in the footer and it was in some artwork a long time ago,

0:09:48but we really don't use it. It's just kind of been hanging out down there in the footer for,

0:09:52we originally thought we were going to use it. Yeah. Right. And then we just sort of just didn't

0:09:57didn't work out. So this came up on a Q and A and Kathy is wonderful. And I love working with Kathy,

0:10:06but Kathy has a tendency to troll me when she gets the opportunity, troll us when she gets

0:10:11the opportunity. So she has leaned in to switch on and uses it basically all the time. Yep. And

0:10:18as Kathy's co-hosts have picked it up too. So on conduit, Jay says it, Alex says it a bunch

0:10:25on roboism. Kathy says it during every spotlight episode where she interviews. This is another

0:10:33member of the book. She interviews a different relay FM host. She just did a great one with

0:10:37Jon Sirq's, I'm like halfway through it. It's very good. But every time Kathy says relay FM,

0:10:41she says switch on. And to me, it's like nails on a chalkboard to hear it now, because I know

0:10:47that it's only to troll me and you. Yeah. Right. And it won't, and she won't stop. And now I've

0:10:53said that I feel like it's only going to get worse. And I feel like there's probably nothing

0:10:58we can do about it. So Zach, yes, I do regret that you asked that question because Kathy has

0:11:04weaponized our own bad tagline against us. That's so true. And we should say,

0:11:11Kathy's playing a big part in planning the live show and stuff for St. Jude,

0:11:17which we're going to talk about in the coming weeks. So. Oh, Kathy is incredible. Yeah. I'm

0:11:22just saying incredibly skilled, but one of Kathy's skills is trolling us. It's a skill that she has.

0:11:29She's very good at it. Like she is all of the other things that she does for relay FM, which is a

0:11:34thankfully growing list of responsibilities because it's good to have people that have

0:11:39growing lists of responsibilities. That is not me and you. Indeed. But Kathy has made

0:11:44a responsibility of her own to troll me and you with the tagline. Switch on baby.

0:11:49Turquoise hexagon son says, imagine some company came along and said, you can't use switch on

0:11:56because we have that trademarked. Please. Can some company come along and say that?

0:12:00What new slogan would you choose for relay FM? I don't know. The only thing I thought of,

0:12:08it's not a good slogan, but I put it on some coffee mugs we sent to Host and Friends a couple

0:12:13years ago and the mug said, uh, it was like keeping RSS cool since 2014 or something.

0:12:19You know, I thought that was kind of funny, a little tongue and cheek with like some other

0:12:23slogans in the world. But, uh, I really, to answer truthfully, honestly, don't know what we would do.

0:12:29I don't think we would have one. Probably not. I just don't really think, like, you know, we had,

0:12:34uh, creative, curious, obsessive for a while, but we've moved away from that where like,

0:12:39that was like the, the, you know, kind of like the way we described the, uh, the types of shows

0:12:46that we have. But you rewrote that recently to say relay FM brings together some of the most

0:12:50influential and unique voices on the internet to create powerful content each and every week.

0:12:55Wow. You found that. Especially on the top of the website. I haven't done it yet.

0:12:58It's on the about page. Oh, is it? Yeah. It's going to go on the homepage at some point.

0:13:02I just got to, Oh, nice. I like powerful by the way.

0:13:05Yes. We maybe that should be it really FM powerful. Like that's just the tagline powerful.

0:13:11We are a powerful company. Can you imagine putting that on a, on a, a pitch for podcast advertising?

0:13:19Oh, just like a t-shirt that just said powerful. It's pretty good. Right.

0:13:22I'd wear that's pretty good. Pretty good. Fire up Photoshop. It's time to make a t-shirt.

0:13:28Yeah. The network, you know, done skip leg day. So we're saying no, exactly. Exactly.

0:13:34Okay. So that's, that's, that's that's all the tagline stuff. Let me ask you this question from

0:13:41Aaron, I guess maybe the same Aaron who leaked our 10th anniversary show. It's hard to say.

0:13:46There was no leak just to, just to confirm this, by the way, before Aaron asks the question,

0:13:51you also in discord asked if there were going to be any live shows like you were teeing someone up.

0:13:57I know you were excited as you should have been anyways. Aaron asks, looking back,

0:14:02how has the last four years and a bit compared to the first four years and a bit of the company

0:14:07podcasting, et cetera. Are we answering like for ourselves or. I think we start there.

0:14:13Yeah. All right. So for me, like I think maybe the easiest way to think about this for myself is like

0:14:20the last four years has been less work for me in the sense of running the company. Right. Like,

0:14:31I feel like the fact that we have brought people in, in this latter half has helped a lot. So like

0:14:39my actual like day to day relay FM running is less where like I'm actually able to focus more on

0:14:47content now than I have been in the past. Um, that is like an ongoing thing for me where like

0:14:53I think my best contribution to this company is the content. And like, I just want to keep

0:15:00doing more of that. Right. And less like a minister via or whatever. Um, or like, you know,

0:15:06for the majority of one is I think even think it is the majority, but for the first four years I was

0:15:11responsible for the sponsorship. It was how we made all of our money and that was

0:15:16very stressful. Um, I'm now not responsible for that anymore. So like my biggest company,

0:15:22like business role is the thing that I don't do anymore. And so I would say like,

0:15:28I am happier with the last four years than the first four years in a sense of like what I want

0:15:34to be doing for relay FM, you know, like all I, the whole point that is this whole thing exists

0:15:40is because me and Steven wanted to make podcasts and own everything and like make podcasts the way

0:15:46we wanted to make them and everything be the way that we wanted it to be. But to do that,

0:15:51you have to do a bunch of stuff like running a business and I, and I'm, I am happier when I do

0:15:58the business running a more of the content production. Cause that was the whole point

0:16:02for me in the first place. Yeah. And just to clarify about what you mean by some of that stuff,

0:16:07we hired someone named Carrie years and years ago, initially to be your assistant.

0:16:13And then they got involved in the sales process and now they're our VP of sales and handle

0:16:21basically all of it. Oh, well actually, uh, chief advertising officer, chief advertise. Oh, I'm

0:16:26sorry. See sweet. I got distracted by my own titles earlier and yeah, I don't even know what they mean

0:16:34anymore. Carrie is the vice president of sales and send chief advertising officer of that division

0:16:43and, uh, the chief data entry specialist for advertising inventory system. Correct. I think

0:16:50for me, if you split relay up, I don't think halves quite makes sense. I think of relay as the

0:16:58time where I was still working for a year and the middle bit, and then sort of the current phase

0:17:04we're in starting in 2020 when we launched the membership program as we know it today.

0:17:09But I think the, I think the, this current era has been more work for me because I run the membership

0:17:17program. Uh, we flipped and I, you know, Kathy coming on board, she helps with a lot of

0:17:24administrative stuff, but she's also the community manager. So Kathy is sort of the, the final word

0:17:29in the discord, not, not me and Mike. Right. She's helping us work with our hosts on their plans for

0:17:36membership shows. Like she, she's really been very influential in that program. But I think if I look

0:17:44back at my time, there's a lot more of it spent on the admin end of things. And there used to be,

0:17:50and that's fine. Like totally fine. Membership has been a big success and it not only got us through

0:17:56the pandemic, but it's getting us through a season now where podcast advertising isn't super stellar.

0:18:01And so it's doing what it was supposed to do. But with that obviously comes more hands-on time,

0:18:06which I'm, I'm glad to do because I love our membership program and I love our members.

0:18:09I assume membership will go for you the way advertising went for me and that like over time,

0:18:15once it's even more stable than it is, uh, now that Kathy or someone else or whoever could take

0:18:23more of that role away from you, but a company of our size, I think it's very important that one of

0:18:31us is establishing the way that a thing will run. Yeah. And then we then know how it works.

0:18:40Uh, and even if, so then if somebody takes it over from us, well, you know how it works.

0:18:44And so then it can move forward and like, I really want you to do less of the admin work.

0:18:51This is a conversation me and you had on our last, um, in-person time around podcasts on time.

0:18:57We always take time to look at the company then. And it was something that I really wanted for you

0:19:01then. And I still really want for you. And, uh, I hope that we can get there, uh, eventually,

0:19:07but I mean, as well, like I know for me, and I, I think this is the same for you. Uh,

0:19:13we're just the kind of people that it's hard to let go of things. Yeah. Um, but I just kind of,

0:19:20for me, it was, it was easy to let go of the advertising when I, when I was able to see just

0:19:26how better at it, Carrie was than me, like, cause this isn't just admin, right? This is like,

0:19:33right. Making a deal, right. Which is like a different set of skills. She's just a better deal

0:19:37maker than I am. So it was very easy to let go when it was like, Oh, this could be better for

0:19:43the company if I just, if I stopped doing it. And so that's kind of where that's ended up.

0:19:48So that's round one of our questions. Are we doing any rounds? I don't know. Okay.

0:19:53This episode of connected is brought to you by net suite. Your business gets to a certain size and

0:19:58the cracks start to emerge. Things you used to do in a day are not taking a week. We're talking

0:20:03about this on this very episode, right? How our company has grown over time. Sometimes you end up

0:20:07with too many manual processes and you don't have one source of truth for the data you're looking

0:20:12for. If this sounds familiar, you need to know these three numbers, 36,025 and one 36,000

0:20:20businesses have upgraded to net suite by Oracle. Net suite is the number one cloud financial system

0:20:27streamlining accounting, financial management, inventory, HR, and more. 25 because net suite

0:20:33is turning 25 years old this year. That's 25 years of helping businesses do more with less,

0:20:39close their books and days and not weeks and help drive down costs. And one because your business is

0:20:45one of a kind. So you can get a customized solution for all your KPIs and one efficient system with

0:20:51one source of truth. Manage risk, get reliable forecasts and improve margins. Everything you

0:20:57need to do this all in one place. Having all the information in one place makes it much easier to

0:21:04make decisions. Lesson that we have learned running our company over and over. Right now you can

0:21:10download net suites popular KPI checklist designed to give you consistently excellent performance

0:21:16absolutely free at net suite.com/connected. That's net suite.com N E T S U I T E. Net suite.com/connected

0:21:28to get your own KPI checklist. Our thanks to net suite for the support of the show and relay FM.

0:21:34Mattias asks, when you founded relay, did you have a minimum realistic or best case goal for

0:21:40the company and where do you see it now? I think we were just going to be really content with

0:21:46quitting our jobs and both doing it full time. Right. That was like the best case scenario is

0:21:52that we could, there are some questions in here. This is one of them that makes me feel like I was

0:21:57just a sweet baby boy when we started this company. Oh yeah. Because I don't really feel like we had a

0:22:06plan. Yeah. You were 26 at the time. I was 28. God. Yeah. That's rough. Yeah. Now I'm looking at 40,

0:22:16two and a half years away. The passing of time comes for us all. This is by far the longest job

0:22:24we've ever had. Double any other job I've ever had. It's the longest position I've had. Like,

0:22:30you know, I worked at the bank for about the same amount of time as this. So like, I was close to

0:22:3710 years, I think. And so I will be passing it soon. So I need to actually work out the dates on

0:22:43that specifically. But this is, you know, I moved around every couple of years to like different

0:22:47roles. So this is the longest job I've had by a country mile, but like a factor of four. Did you

0:22:54bail on any cool 10 year, like, Hey, you get a plaque? You know, some companies do that. Maybe

0:23:01we should do it for ourselves next year. Yes. It was, it was going to be a pin, which is like the

0:23:06most stupid thing. Yeah. I do think that there was some kind of like, uh, like stock compensation

0:23:12thing that I would have got or something stupid like that. It would have been worth probably

0:23:16nothing, but yet we didn't like, cause at the time, all we were trying to do was what

0:23:24we were already doing, but just on our own. Right. Which was like make podcasts in our spare time

0:23:30as our like creative hobby and maybe make a little bit of money. And the hope was that that little

0:23:38bit of money might grow into a little bit more money. And if we owned and controlled the business,

0:23:43it would be enough money that we might be able to quit our jobs. I quit my job in a month,

0:23:48two months. Yep. Because it just started really well. And it seemed like we had like a three month

0:23:55runway from our original sponsors because people were excited, which is awesome. And we'd built

0:24:01up enough goodwill with a selection of companies that we had enough runway that like, I could see

0:24:07that I would be able to do it for three months. And so I was like, well, I'm never going to have

0:24:12a better time than this. And if I just put myself into this a hundred percent, maybe we can like

0:24:17make it work. And I didn't have really any financial burden at that point. I was living

0:24:26with my mum. She supported it. And so I just went for it and it worked out. But like the goal,

0:24:34like the best case scenario was just that like maybe one day we'll be professional full-time

0:24:40podcasters. Like that was all it was. There was nothing more than that. I put a couple of things

0:24:45in the show notes, analog episode nine. We talked to Casey about this and then my blog post in 2015

0:24:51announcing that I was quitting my job. So the very quick story people may be aware of this is like,

0:24:56there was like a story of a broken shoelace. Still have that shoelace. That's awesome.

0:25:01Fishekai asks, when are you most proud of your co-founder? I don't. That's sweet. Well,

0:25:07this is like when "we" was the question, right? And I don't have like, I couldn't, I was trying

0:25:11to think of like a specific thing, but there is just like a time when like when Stephen Hackett

0:25:19takes to the stage, he's untouchable. It is unbelievable. You never see a man change

0:25:26like the way Stephen Hackett does when he stands in front of an audience. It is, I'm truly jealous of

0:25:32it because I think you are so good at it and you're so effortless. And so I think that that

0:25:38when I see you like commanding an audience, it's, it is awesome. You're very good at it.

0:25:44Thank you. I enjoy it and we're going to do it again.

0:25:48I enjoy it, but I'm just scared of it. I'm scared of it.

0:25:51Yeah, I understand. I, yeah, no, I get it. The thing about you, I respect so much about you.

0:25:58I think when I'm most proud of you is when you were in your mode of like idea generation

0:26:06and imagination out of the two of us, I think you are much better at that at seeing things that

0:26:12aren't done that could be done. You know, you do it at Relay, you do it across your other projects.

0:26:16And I always just really immensely respect that about you, that you have these ideas.

0:26:21I think it's one, one of many ways that we're a good fit together is that often you were out ahead

0:26:26of me a little bit sometimes on like new ideas. And then like we talk about them and I can help

0:26:33you implement them in a bunch of different ways. And I think we've done that over and over.

0:26:36And so that's when I see you in that mode, I always, I'm always so happy.

0:26:40Yeah. I very much appreciate that. That is very kind of you to say, thank you. And I do agree.

0:26:46It's one of the things that makes us good is that like, I typically have an idea,

0:26:49but I have no idea how to do it. Like that, that is my thing. It's like, oh, I have this idea,

0:26:53but I don't know what to do with this. And you are very good at like working out what to do with it.

0:27:01This is anytime that we talk about our custom content management system, this comes up.

0:27:06Speaking of which.

0:27:08Oh, what a segue.

0:27:09Kay asks, Real AFM historian, Kay asks, how is Neon doing? What are the most

0:27:16unexpected problems you've come across running your own content management system?

0:27:21Yeah. So Neon is the name of our CMS. We bought the core of it from somebody else and have been

0:27:28developing it for over nine years now. I think the thing that has, is surprised me the most about it

0:27:36is the way different people expect things to work. So we have probably 20 people who can log into it

0:27:46and publish shows and, you know, do things and they all want or have slightly different ideas

0:27:52about how things should be. And that's just been a little bit surprising. It's like, I kind of see

0:27:58it like, oh, well, it should work this way, obviously. And someone's like, why would it work

0:28:00that way? Why not do it the other way around? You have to work through all that. It's been

0:28:03challenging. The question I think about sometimes or I get sometimes is if you were starting today,

0:28:08would you build your own CMS? I honestly don't know. When we started, and I've said this before,

0:28:13when we started, there really wasn't anything out there platform wise that gave us what we needed,

0:28:19where we had one website with multiple podcasts, all with their own feeds. And yeah, like in 2014,

0:28:26I could have hacked together like some WordPress thing or used something like Squarespace, but

0:28:30none of them gave us really what we needed because none of those things, as good as they may be,

0:28:36none of them gave us like, this is built for podcasting. And ultimately, the way I kind of

0:28:44think about it now is we have neon as sort of an extension of the thing you said at the beginning,

0:28:50that we want to do this our own way and be in charge of it to make our own decisions.

0:28:54Like, what better way to do that with software than building yourself? And so it has been painful.

0:28:59It has been incredibly expensive over the years. But it has been also, I think, a real asset that

0:29:05lets us do what we want to do in the way that we do it. For instance, I'll shut up after this.

0:29:10We take great pride in really thorough show notes, almost to a show on the network, right?

0:29:20Where if you look at the links, the things we talk about, not only is anything major we're

0:29:26talked about in there, they're also in order that we spoke about them in. And they're also

0:29:31sometimes things in there that barely get mentioned, but we think are interesting or

0:29:35related somehow. That is not the norm in podcasting on the whole. And in talking with

0:29:42podcast producers using other platforms or working elsewhere, it's either that they don't think about

0:29:48it or their audience doesn't seem to care about it. Maybe our audience does. But a lot of it is

0:29:53also we don't have a good technical way of doing that. It's like, bro, it's just links, like just

0:29:57throw them in the, you know, throw them right there in the feed. So that's something that we knew from

0:30:02day one we wanted to do. So we built features around that to make it really easy to manage

0:30:07those links and to add them. I think that's a small example of what we get out of having our own.

0:30:12Yeah, I will say as the person who does not manage neither the finances or the technology stack of

0:30:18the company, right, you do both of those things. The question of would if we were starting over,

0:30:24would we want to do it again? I would say yeah. I think that's where we would end up. I think we

0:30:29would be frustrated with something off the shelf. It's so valuable that it works the way we want

0:30:36and anything we want we can do. When it came to like having the membership shows,

0:30:43there were so many ways to distribute that content. But what I didn't want to be like entering things

0:30:50in multiple into multiple places or whatever. And so it's all built into like a another part of our

0:30:56CMS. And when you're done build, when we're done building shows, there's one button that you press,

0:31:02and it duplicates it to a secondary feed, all of the information except the audio link,

0:31:08which we just put the membership audio link in and publish it. And it's like a secret feed

0:31:13that feeds into member for and then goes out to members for the distributed feeds. Like there are

0:31:18so many ways that that could have been done. And if we didn't have our own system, we would have been

0:31:26and would still to this day be copying and pasting a bunch of stuff from box to box to box to box,

0:31:32if you wanted to keep it secret like private. But we're able to do that. And again, like,

0:31:38because we own our own thing. Yeah, this CMS publishes to a website. There are no web pages

0:31:43for the private shows because we are able to adjust it that way. We're like, you know what I

0:31:48mean? Like, I just don't think that there would have been a tool that would have allowed us to do

0:31:52what we do the way that we do it unless we already owned it. And so we own it. And it's also a

0:31:57fantastic asset that our company has. And if you, I mean, just think about our peers, right? Think of

0:32:02ATP, you think of the incomparable, you think of twit, like all using custom publishing platforms

0:32:09for the same reasons, basically. Because it's like a similar idea of wanting it to be a certain way

0:32:17and then being able to manage and maintain that. I mean, it is an old school, you know,

0:32:21what you've just listed as well is a bunch of old school tech podcasts. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:32:24But like, but that's the point that we have our own ways of wanting to do things.

0:32:32Jason Snow has entered the Discord saying movable type and, oh boy, the incomparable CMS is powerful,

0:32:39but it's a real beast. Yeah, movable type feels like the Cold War relic a little bit.

0:32:49I'm going to hear about that from him.

0:32:53Jason says in Discord, you got to do what you got to do, you know?

0:32:58It's telling that he moved six colors off of it, we'll say that. All right, let me ask you this

0:33:04question from David. You've said several times sensibly that you don't want to expand the network

0:33:09with more shows. No more horizontal growth could imply more vertical growth. What would that

0:33:15involve? Well, but I am taller than you. So the way that I see this question is that horizontal

0:33:22growth is like what we have done through the company's history. And like we always spoke

0:33:26about this, like in the early days of Relay FM, if we added a new show, we would grow the company's

0:33:32revenue. Like it would just happen and you could watch it happen that like, you know, every month

0:33:36that we added a new show, the company's revenue would increase. Over time, that impact lessened.

0:33:42And that is due to, I think, just like an overall abundance in the podcasting ecosystem

0:33:47that like launching a new show in our world today doesn't have as much impact as it used to.

0:33:53And realistically, the amount of work and effort that a new show requires

0:34:00is more than we have to give right now to actually break through. And breaking through today is

0:34:08harder, it's different. And we're in a world where me and Steven didn't break through. So

0:34:12all the ways in which we broke through in 2014 do not apply today. Part of that, I just want to say,

0:34:19we're to blame for. Right? Like part of the reason that our Corner of the Internet podcast is pretty

0:34:24saturated because we have a bunch of awesome shows. Right? And that makes it harder for us

0:34:28to break through with something new. And I think, unfortunately, it also makes newer projects hard

0:34:32to break through. So like we're talking about this, but we're not like we are part of the

0:34:37situation. I think I just want to throw that out there. Yeah, I mean, but there are different

0:34:41things that people do today, you know, like understanding video more than we do. And,

0:34:47you know, and that seems to be where a lot of the action is. And, you know, like on Upgrade,

0:34:52me and Jason, like a couple of old men kind of like doddering our way through what it might be

0:34:56to have a TikTok. But like, people do it better than us. And that seems to be the way that people

0:35:03make things work for themselves now. But it's also a thing where I think for me and you for our

0:35:09shows, we are mostly content with what we have audience wise. But that probably leads into

0:35:15vertical growth would be could come in the form of two things. It could even be in large,

0:35:20larger audiences or larger revenue, larger audiences. I don't know. It's hard. Who wouldn't,

0:35:27you know, like who wouldn't want a bigger audience for their project? Like, it is a very,

0:35:31very complicated thing. And we're dabbling in new stuff. But realistically, we don't know what to do.

0:35:39About how to grow it. So I'm not really sure. I don't have an answer for that. We do have and

0:35:44have always had space in our advertising inventory for vertical growth there. And so like that is

0:35:50just a case of like continuing to improve ad selling capabilities. And like that's the thing,

0:35:57like we have space. So in theory, we can continue to grow company revenue. But I don't really think

0:36:03that that's what David would care about. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think our listeners

0:36:08particularly care about company revenue. What I'll say though, is company revenue means that more of

0:36:12your favorite shows have more ads on them, which is good for those shows existing and for those

0:36:16creators. Again, another thing that could grow company revenue and has done, thankfully, is the

0:36:22membership business. And, you know, and like that is a thing where like with membership, we are in

0:36:28that stage right now that we were what I was just referencing back in the day of we'd add a new show

0:36:35to the network and revenue would increase. Well, now if we add a show, like a membership portion

0:36:41to a show, it increases the membership revenue, it increases the revenue that hosts make, and it also

0:36:47increases the amount of members that we have. So like, we're still in that part of the business,

0:36:51which is awesome for that. And we're still learning new things and trying new stuff out

0:36:55with membership, which is great. And it's still growing, which is awesome. Jason asks, not that

0:37:00one, but a different Jason asks, I think, what is something each of you has learned about the other

0:37:05since launching relay that has strengthened your working relationship? I think we've gotten pretty

0:37:10good at knowing, okay, the other one of us doesn't really care about this and ready to be involved,

0:37:16and we can just do it. I feel like in the early years, we double checked with each other on

0:37:21basically everything. And I'm glad we did, right? I think it, it had an awful lot of arguments,

0:37:26maybe we would have had in those early days. But I think now we know each other definitely well

0:37:30enough where we kind of understand where, where people land. Like, for instance, I think we were

0:37:35talking maybe before we hit record, maybe it was on the live stream, though, I think maybe it was

0:37:40in the pro show where I spent my morning, I don't know when it was, we were talking and some people

0:37:45could hear us. No, I just liked that there were like three different places in which this thing

0:37:49could have been and no one will ever know. It's impossible to know. I actually think it was,

0:37:53it was when we were live before we pressed record. Okay. In that timeframe, it's very confusing,

0:37:59I shared that I spent my morning working on some St. Jude campaign stuff. And like,

0:38:03you didn't know what those conversations were, asked you a couple questions, I got your affirmative

0:38:08and then we can move forward. Right. So I think that sort of thing has been good. I don't know,

0:38:12that's probably not as specific as this answer that Jason wanted, but it's kind of what I think

0:38:16about it. Yeah, I agree with this. But I would say a similar thing. It's not necessarily again,

0:38:22we're not not I don't really know if I'm answering the question as such. But as we have changed as

0:38:27people, that has also been very helpful. Like, I think earlier in our career, like I was better at

0:38:35dealing with what everybody needed, like what our hosts needed, and was able to like help people out

0:38:41a lot more. And then as time went on, you became better at that. And like, I think it was just like

0:38:46a patience and bandwidth kind of thing. As our lives changed, you became better at handling that

0:38:53than me because there was a time where I just couldn't handle it. Yeah. And now I think we've

0:38:57kind of this like another thing that we've traded off over time of like the responsibilities. And I

0:39:02think that we dance that dance very well of matching what the other one needs and providing

0:39:10it, which is why we could, why we've run a business for nine years and have maybe had two arguments

0:39:15in that entire time. I also think that like a real example of that is we share an email inbox.

0:39:23And we never talk about who's going to answer the emails. Yeah. We just know. Just know. Membership

0:39:29support comes to me. Add stuff goes to you. Usually invoicing stuff goes to you. Add stuff

0:39:36comes to me and then I give it to Kerry. But we have, we, I don't want to subject Kerry to

0:39:42that email address. So I think it's easier that I just, I can field that for her for now. This

0:39:50is an interesting question from Marlies. Has the company felt any negative consequence in terms of

0:39:55audience and reach by no longer having a presence on Twitter for itself and most of its shows?

0:40:00No idea. I don't think it's been any problem. Like I don't know. I don't know. Well, I see it.

0:40:07I look, I look at the mentions every once in a while. There's nothing there. The thing is like

0:40:11our audience on the whole, like, you know, you may be out there, you may still love Twitter.

0:40:16That's awesome. On the whole in mass, our audience isn't on Twitter anymore. So it's fine.

0:40:21We're on Mastodon. The company has a threads account. I still can't automate things to threads,

0:40:27but as soon as I can, we'll get the sort of post bot going there. But, uh, it seems to have been

0:40:33fine. Yeah. I mean, I have a much smaller following than I did now. So I don't know if maybe a lot of

0:40:39my followers on Twitter weren't real or, you know, I don't really understand what's happened. I think

0:40:44I joined Mastodon too late and I think that was a thing, but realistically I know where my audience

0:40:49is. Like, you know, I don't, I don't need, uh, I don't need like social media to tell people about

0:40:57a thing that I'm doing. I have podcasts, which have larger audiences than I've ever had on any

0:41:02social media, all the social media I have combined. So like, I just don't, you know, I know, I know

0:41:08where to talk to people about what I'm doing and it's like here right now. That has been a, a, uh,

0:41:16a very good thing to realize in my life. I would say that like, you know, I can look at our download

0:41:22figures across the network and see that there may have been a slight decline, but there are like

0:41:27a thousand things that can affect that sometimes. And most of the time it's just algorithms of how

0:41:32download numbers are calculated. And so like, it is impossible to see because there is no pattern,

0:41:39you know, like if I look at this time now to like seven months ago, some shows are up, some shows

0:41:45are down, but if I would have looked three years ago, it would have been a similar thing. So like,

0:41:49there are winds of change, you know what I mean? And I don't, I don't really feel like I understand

0:41:55that Twitter is responsible for any of these changes. It's hard to know. What I know is that

0:42:02like, it's not like everybody stopped listening to our shows because we didn't tweet about them

0:42:05anymore. You know, I'll say, uh, blogging is more popular than it was when, when Twitter was around.

0:42:12So five 12 is doing like record page views with no Twitter presence. That doesn't make any sense

0:42:18to me. I think people were like, Oh yeah. Or assess. Like I think people kind of got used to

0:42:23doing that again, but that's really strange. And then they see everything you post as opposed to

0:42:28just whatever the Twitter app shows. Or, you know, maybe I've hit my stride 15 years into blocking.

0:42:33Could be that. You know, like maybe now now's the time blogging is like a zombie. It's come back to

0:42:41life. It's true. It's the third or fourth era. I think of blogging that I've, I've been a part of.

0:42:46And I'd say nobody asked the question about this, but now I'm just going to pipe in and just be like,

0:42:50you know, in that essence, like we've been doing this for so long. I've seen the death

0:42:55of podcasting like six times. You know what I mean? And you know, it's like a similar thing

0:43:00right now. I feel like I'm hearing from a lot of our really wonderful friends who I love very much,

0:43:04who are podcasters and everyone seems very concerned about advertising right now.

0:43:07Everybody it's going to be okay. Yeah. Take it from me. We're just going through a period.

0:43:13That's all it is. Like, don't worry about it. Rose it from the dead. We do it all the time.

0:43:19I mean, it's just, we're just in a, in a different phase right now. Uh, things are changing all the

0:43:25time and we're just going to move forward of it. You remember like the last time everyone thought

0:43:29podcasting was dead was because Spotify existed. Well, like yesterday, Spotify took the exclusive

0:43:36reigns of a bunch of their shows to start publishing them everywhere. So like, you know

0:43:40what I mean? The Spotify's attempt at killing podcasting did not work because they had to give

0:43:46up. They spent so much money on new shows. Now they need to make money from them. So they're

0:43:50now putting them on Apple podcasts and stuff like that. So we've seen it a bunch of times.

0:43:55Don't worry about it. This episode of connected is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-in-one

0:44:00platform for building your brand and growing your business online. You can stand out with a

0:44:04beautiful website, engage with your audience and sell anything, products, services, even content

0:44:09with Squarespace. And they have everything you need in one place. So think about what you may want

0:44:15on a website for your business or project. Obviously you want informational pages. You

0:44:19won't probably want some nice looking galleries with photos or video, but maybe you want to host

0:44:23a podcast or a blog, or you want an FAQ section or contact forms to integrate with Google drive or

0:44:31MailChimp or other services. Squarespace has all of that and their new tool, the fluid engine,

0:44:36makes it really easy to make all of it look great. You start with a best in class template.

0:44:41You customize every design detail with this new drag and drop engine. It works on desktop and

0:44:46mobile, and you can stretch your imagination online with fluid engine and it's built in and

0:44:50ready to go on any new Squarespace site. And they have that online store for physical and digital

0:44:56products. And of course you get awesome analytics to track all of it, see where your traffic is

0:45:01coming from, see what your visitors are up to. Absolutely love building on Squarespace because

0:45:06all these tools are in one place. They all look great. They all work really well. And at the end

0:45:11of the day, I can have a really awesome looking website for a project I'm involved with that is

0:45:16really affordable to build and to keep up for years to come. So check out squarespace.com/connected

0:45:23for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use the code connected to get 10% off your first

0:45:30purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com/connected and the code connected

0:45:36when you decide to sign up to get 10% off your first purchase and to show your support for this,

0:45:41your favorite podcast. Our thanks to Squarespace for their support of the show and Relay FM.

0:45:48I would like to jump in here at this moment and just like underscore that line.

0:45:52Squarespace has been with us since the very beginning, nonstop for nine years. Thank you,

0:45:58Squarespace. Thank you, Squarespace. Doolerick asks, what was your budget going in and how did

0:46:05you manage it? I guess that means like when we were starting the company. I assume so, man.

0:46:09Did you stick to that budget? How did you have that number? Here's what we did.

0:46:13Mike and I went to our banks and we said, I want all the money I have, please. And they put it in

0:46:21a little paper baggie and we built a website and we hired a designer and we did a bunch of stuff.

0:46:27I don't remember how much that money was now, but I do know that we paid it back to ourselves within

0:46:32the first quarter of being in business. So I know how much it was for me. I don't remember if I

0:46:39don't remember how this worked out. Like I genuinely don't remember how much money we all

0:46:43put in. I think it was just a case of we put in whatever we could and we just worked out that we'd

0:46:47pay each other back. And but mine was seven thousand pounds. That was how much I put in at

0:46:52the beginning. It was all the money I had. I had it was my life savings at that point.

0:46:58And I put it all in and we got it all back very quick. It was fantastic. But yeah, I remember

0:47:03that. That was it. There was no budget. It was like, how much money can we put in? Great. This

0:47:08is how much money we have. That's the end of it. There was not like, and we're going to spend this

0:47:12much because also there was no expense. We had barely any expenses. Like our expenses were so

0:47:19small for a really long time. So like we didn't need to budget like that. I would say even to this

0:47:25day while we are expenses have gotten much more because we have people for a company of our size

0:47:31and scale and age, our expenses are still small. Yeah. Agreed. Like realistically, most

0:47:36most of the money that we pay out is like what would essentially be commission, right? Yeah.

0:47:43More than anything else. That's like to hosts and for the advertising sales and stuff like that,

0:47:47rather than like fixed monthly expenses for a long time. This probably isn't the case now,

0:47:53but for a long time, our biggest expense was Slack. Yeah. It's not anymore. Is that still the case?

0:47:58Okay. Web hosting has taken it over. What? How? By quite a bit. Boo. Our website does a lot of stuff.

0:48:04Web hosting. You suck. Don't we just run it all off of Mac mini again? No, no. The website never

0:48:12ran on Mac mini, just the live stream. Oh, okay. Yeah. I'm trying to think. I put in,

0:48:18it was a similar amount. It may have been, yeah, it'd be five or six grand, but yeah, basically,

0:48:24well basically all the money out in my savings account and my wife was seven, eight, no,

0:48:31she was eight months pregnant with our youngest son when we launched the company. So that was a

0:48:36fun time. And that was like, I think it was a consideration where it was just like, I'm just

0:48:40going to put in everything I have, but you shouldn't. Right. It was just like, you know,

0:48:43like because it was, I had nothing. My funny thing, I remember like talking about money.

0:48:49Do you remember like, it was like two weeks before we were going to launch the company and I spilled

0:48:56Coke on my laptop. I do remember that. Destroyed my MacBook Pro or MacBook Air or something. And

0:49:04so I like, this was, I think during the time period or like, yeah, I think it was during the

0:49:10time period of where we left five by five and we're getting ready. And so I ended up being able to

0:49:17claim on our home insurance. Oh yeah. To get a new laptop. And I was super sad because I had a bunch

0:49:27of great stickers on my laptop and they wanted the laptop. Yeah. Oh yeah. Which didn't make any sense

0:49:33to me, but they wouldn't give me the money to get a new laptop unless I gave them the old laptop. So

0:49:39I gave them the old laptop. They gave me the money. I bought a new MacBook and was ready to go.

0:49:44I had forgotten about that until you said it. What a terrible day.

0:49:48That was so bad, man. It was so bad. I think I was talking to Casey, but I'm not sure.

0:49:53Yeah. There was... No, you know what I was doing? I was recording. I was, I was a guest on a podcast,

0:49:59which is hilarious. So like there, there was an episode of a podcast somewhere where I was only

0:50:04on half of it because I destroyed my computer. That's good. That's, that's incredible. Hey,

0:50:14hey, I'm a professional. Well, you know, it happens to the best of us. Edwin asks,

0:50:21how close or far are you from the vision you had for Relay FM nine years ago?

0:50:26I think we touched on this earlier. I think we've, we've been so fortunate to be so far

0:50:33past anything we could imagine in the beginning. Yeah. Imagining the size that we're on now,

0:50:38the number and sort of the amazing people we get to work with, the membership community.

0:50:43We didn't have any of that. I think in our wildest dreams back in the day, you know,

0:50:47we were young and very focused on what was right in front of us. And so, yeah, I think it's been

0:50:52an absolute amazing, incredible ride that, you know, we're, we're thrilled where it's ended up.

0:50:58Yeah. Our biggest achievement is the host page. The selection of people that we get to work with

0:51:03who are either, you know, either a were like around for doing this stuff for a long time

0:51:08before us or B have like come onto the scene after us and also are with us. Like that is like,

0:51:16that's the best thing. And that is something that we would never, I never would have assumed

0:51:22that we could have secured, right? Like to be able to have the trust from so many people to be

0:51:29the place that they produce their content. Like I think that's, that's super cool. And I never

0:51:34could have imagined that that would have occurred. Here's another one from Arliss. You both worked

0:51:41very hard over the past years. Do you see a time in the near future where you can lay back and sort

0:51:45of let everything you've put in place run itself for a while? This is interesting because this is

0:51:49not a conversation we've ever had. Yeah. So it's, I have a very specific, I have a very clear answer

0:51:56in my mind, but we've never spoken. Mike wants to go to the beach real bad. Before you give your

0:52:02answer, I will say one reason this is a complicated question is because we are both owners and hosts

0:52:10on shows. And so while I may take a week off from administrative work and it mostly be okay,

0:52:17I have some catch up to do, but you know, the world doesn't come to an end. Taking a week off

0:52:22my podcast means that I've got to sort something out with you in Federico. I've got to talk with

0:52:27David for MPU. And if we're doing a genius, we've got to move that around. And so it is more than

0:52:33just the owner part of what we do because we are talent or host or whatever. You know, we also have

0:52:41weekly obligations, but what, say what you're going to say, cause I'm curious. Well, I, I've

0:52:45read this question as just the owners part. Okay. That like, we're still, we're just like hosts,

0:52:53like any other host. Yeah. Like that's how I read this. And like for me is a dream of mine that like

0:52:58one day, like I kind of alluded to it earlier. Like all I do is just produce podcasts. Like

0:53:04that's all I do. I create the content and don't have to think about the running of the company.

0:53:11The problem is, the problem is, and I expect this will probably be very similar to you of like,

0:53:17oh boy, do I have opinions though? And so that's the thing I'd have to let go, right? Like let's

0:53:23imagine a scenario where we hand off our reins to two people who are better than us, right? Or like

0:53:31they're going to come in and they're going to run the whole bag, right? Imagine that scenario.

0:53:36Are we like a chief visiting officers or chief podcast officers at that point?

0:53:40I don't think, I mean, maybe, you know what I mean? Maybe, maybe we're just like,

0:53:43we are a, what's Phil Schiller? Fellows. We're a couple of fellows, you know?

0:53:48Relay fellow. That's a title I want. Relay fellows. That's us. We're merely

0:53:53advisors at that point, right? Like if anybody has any questions for us, they can ask them.

0:53:57But realistically the company is run by other people. Problem is they're going to make decisions

0:54:03and I might not agree with them. Yeah.

0:54:06But I have to keep it to myself because that's, you know what I mean? I can't tell people

0:54:09what to do. But also we're the owners of the company they're in charge of. Like there's also

0:54:13like an inherent cycle there that's weird. Well, no, no, no. We've just become like shareholders

0:54:18essentially at that point. Or like we're all like a board or something, but like the day-to-day

0:54:25running of the company would be by done by other people. I'm experiencing a mini version of this

0:54:30right now with the advertising stuff, right? The goal that me and Kerry have right now is that

0:54:36like she doesn't ask my opinion on things unless she wants advice. The goal is like,

0:54:43she's just running it her way. Like she runs advertising her way. Like that's what we're

0:54:48trying to work together on. I have opinions, but she, I'm not, you know, we're working on trying

0:54:55to establish the idea that like I can share my opinions, but she doesn't have to do them.

0:55:01You know, and that's a hard thing because we have a long relationship of like, I was in charge of

0:55:07this part. And so like, if I had an opinion about something, we can have a conversation about it and

0:55:12maybe she could, you know, could help change my mind or whatever. But like the buck stopped with

0:55:16me. So like, you know, we would do it that way. And if it went wrong, well, that was my fault.

0:55:20You know, like that's just how companies work, but now she is in control of it as the chief

0:55:26advertising officer. And so like, we're shifting our relationship that way where like, she's just

0:55:30like, I'm going to do this thing. And I would like to know what you think about it. What do you think?

0:55:34Or otherwise it's just like, Hey, I'm going to do this thing. And I'm like, okay. You know? So.

0:55:39Well, she's like a third equal party in our weekly standups and stuff now. Right? Like she changed.

0:55:45Yeah. Like I've kept her as we've been planning the relay 10 show. She's been riding the

0:55:50conversations with, Hey, this is the venue we're looking at. This is the budget we're looking at,

0:55:55you know, these are the dates. So she's aware. And so she's become a much more

0:55:59integral part of the team. Yeah. It was like, even though realistically, that's not part that

0:56:03doesn't fall within her remit. She's now like, you know, C suite that we have. And so she has to be

0:56:09aware of everything that's going on in the company. Right? Like the same as like, you're aware of what

0:56:14she's doing, but you don't have any particular input on it. It's like a similar thing. Hardly

0:56:19ever. I can think of like two times like, Hey, wait a second. Yeah. But no, no, but you, but you,

0:56:25everybody has opinions. Right. And like, it's, we're a small enough company that it's helpful

0:56:30to share those opinions. So what I'm saying is like, the idea would have to be that like,

0:56:34there would be people that would run the company and that they would just run it.

0:56:37And me and you would just be like out there as advisors if necessary, but we're not doing the

0:56:42day to day. That is like a dream scenario to me, because then all I get to do is make podcasts.

0:56:48Right. Which is all we ever wanted to do, you know, but do I ever realistically imagine it's

0:56:53going to happen? I don't know. Probably not. But like, got a dream. You know what I mean?

0:56:58I don't want to retire. You see like, so, but I can't continue and neither of us can continue

0:57:03doing the same thing forever. No. So I would like this to continue. And so ultimately people coming

0:57:10in to help us run it is a, I think a very possible future in like another 10 years from now.

0:57:16And we both have other things. Do you really want to be 20 years? Like a no change?

0:57:20That's a long old time, man. No, I mean, we've already changed so much, but you know,

0:57:24there are still things I do today that did nine years ago. Just like you have things.

0:57:28Yeah. But there are also things that I could imagine that you never thought you would stop

0:57:32doing, but you stopped doing them. I don't pay people anymore. Right. Because it's,

0:57:35and that is like one of these things where like, can you imagine like, you know, back then it's

0:57:39like, Oh, how could we ever trust someone? Yeah. It's like the most important thing. It's like,

0:57:43well, I had to pay people last week because Kathy was out and boy, that's a, that's a whole process.

0:57:49I'd forgotten how it went. It's a long thing. Takes a lot of checks and a lot of balances.

0:57:55Thankfully. Well, no one gets paid by check, but thankfully we do have a Google doc that has the

0:58:00process in it that I reviewed carefully. I didn't want to screw it up. Oh, that's good.

0:58:04I don't want to tell Kathy, Hey, I've made a terrible error. You know,

0:58:09I paid Casey $10,000 too many dollars and he just took it. That's $10,000. That's the terrible,

0:58:16that is a terrible error. Please, uh, become an analog member. I don't know. What do you

0:58:21think about what I've said? Does it upset you? Are you scared about it? No, no, a little, just,

0:58:27you know, but I think that with Carrie in particular and with, with, with Kathy as well,

0:58:32but I don't think we've given as much to Kathy as we've given to Carrie by any means.

0:58:35It's proven not only to be fine, but to actually be better. Know what I'm saying?

0:58:40Well, I'm not going, I don't assume that me and you were like the best business people,

0:58:45you know, like, you know what I mean? Yeah. We good at the content creating stuff,

0:58:49but like to do that, we needed a company. So we just made one, but like, that's a question.

0:58:53Did you have a budget? Well, no, we probably should have though, but we didn't even think

0:58:57about it. Yeah. We're like, how much does it cost to do this? Like, okay, well, we still have that

0:59:01money. So we'll spend it, you know? Yeah, exactly what I mean. So that's, that's what I think.

0:59:06Even now there's parts of the business that are probably too loosey goosey. Oh gosh. Yes.

0:59:11But they work for us, but they are probably not the best way that things should be done.

0:59:17And so like, that's what I mean. Like someone could come in and just be like, all right,

0:59:20grandpa, you go over there and talk about Macintoshes, right? Yeah. And like, you got,

0:59:24and me, like you go over there and talk about pens and we'll just make sure this is all running.

0:59:29Yeah. That doesn't seem like a wild thing to me, but it's hard to get there. Will we ever get

0:59:33there? Who could tell? Who could tell? Ryan asks, will there ever be a new episode in the B-Sides

0:59:38feed? So the B-Sides feed is a, is a feature in our CMS where the idea was, oh, we may pick titles

0:59:46or something funny happens, a little clip, and we would publish it to the B-Sides, which is like a

0:59:53separate podcast feed, but they were attached to the parent episode. So it'd be linking forward

0:59:59and back linking between the episode and the B-side. There's some things in there. Basically,

1:00:04membership killed this though, because now things like title picking, we do as a membership perk,

1:00:11like for instance on connected the post show every week is us picking titles and sometimes following

1:00:15up on something. And so the B-side feature in my mind is kind of slated for retirement.

1:00:21Some of the stuff needed for that to work plumbing wise, life would be better without in terms of

1:00:28developing the CMS. And so it may not be long for this world, but I don't think there's ever

1:00:33going to be a new one. Yeah, it just, uh, it adds complexity, which is not needed because we don't

1:00:39use that feature anymore. And like, there are a lot of things where like, Hey, if something funny

1:00:44happened after we record finished recording upgrade, we'd put it in there. Well now that's

1:00:48like really good for upgrade plus, right? Like as you were saying, so like that didn't really make

1:00:52any sense. And we also kind of just stopped using it anyway, like before membership, it just stopped

1:00:57getting used. And so it went away. Yeah. I'm looking, trying to see how many, it's only 43

1:01:03episodes in there. Uh, one from 2021 and then three from 2020 and the rest are older than that.

1:01:11So I mean, it's, it's pretty old. It did have a good tagline though. Some things are too good to

1:01:15throw away. Pretty good. Marlies ask which one of you is the best handyman? You are. It's probably

1:01:21true. No, it is true. It is true. It is true. We don't need to like to be around the bush on this

1:01:26one. You're better at handyman stuff than me, but I'm learning. I'm a learning boy, you know,

1:01:30but you're better than me. You bought a house, things in your house break. And oh boy, do they.

1:01:35And you know, I'm getting better at it, but you just get on roofs and stuff, you know, also you

1:01:40come from a handyman family, you know? And so you're kind of, as you say to me sometimes forced

1:01:45into these things because what are you going to do if your dad said, help you with a plumbing,

1:01:49you got to help the, you got to help dad, you know? Yeah. Both my parents were contractors.

1:01:53So I grew up, I grew up in it, you know, pretty comfortable with a lot of it. Not electricity

1:01:57though. I'm not doing my own electrical work. This episode of Connected is made possible by

1:02:01ZocDoc. Raise your hand if you've caught yourself listening to the so-called health experts on

1:02:07social media. Maybe they say something about your morning drink and you find yourself wondering if

1:02:11it is related to your symptoms. Meanwhile, when's the last time you went to an actual good doctor?

1:02:16If you have to think about it, it's time to head to ZocDoc. There are thousands of top rated doctors

1:02:21on ZocDoc. They all are listed with verified patient reviews. So you can find and book a doctor

1:02:27who not only has years of experience and an actual medical degree, but also gets you and where you

1:02:32are. ZocDoc is a free app where you can find amazing doctors and book appointments online.

1:02:37We're talking about booking appointments with thousands of top rated patient reviewed doctors

1:02:42and specialists. You can filter specifically for ones that take your insurance or located near you

1:02:47and treat almost any condition you may be searching for. And they all have verified

1:02:52reviews from actual real patients, not bots. The average waiting time to see a doctor booked on

1:02:58ZocDoc is between 24 and 48 hours. That's it. You can also often get same day appointments even.

1:03:04And once you find the doctor you want, you can book them immediately with just a few taps.

1:03:08And so no more awkwardly waiting on hold with a receptionist. It's so important to have a quality

1:03:15healthcare provider in your life. And ZocDoc is a great way to go about finding one. Maybe you've

1:03:20moved to a new area or just looking for a change, ZocDoc can be helpful. So go check it out at

1:03:26ZocDoc.com/connected to download their app for free. Then find and book a top rated doctor today.

1:03:32That's Z-O-C-D-O-C. ZocDoc.com/connected. Our thanks to ZocDoc for their support of the show

1:03:40and Relay FM. K asks, it's nearly September, are you ready for the podcastathon?

1:03:45Yeah, yeah, it's bad. It's bad gang, it's bad. We're working on it. But it's good, but it's bad.

1:03:53You know what I mean? Like it's excellent, but it's like terrifying and there's so much work to do.

1:03:59And as is usual, we have increased the complexity. Badder, bolder, better, stronger, more powerful.

1:04:07More powerful. It's going to be awesome. Like it's going to be so good. If we can pull off half of

1:04:12the things that we want to, this one is going to crush. But that just means it's a lot of work and

1:04:18it's a lot of effort. I'm very thankful to everyone at St. Jude and Steven for managing the vast

1:04:24majority of it. Spend a lot of time with that team. A lot of time. But yeah, it's coming.

1:04:30But it's the best though. It is the best. I love working with them.

1:04:33It's the best thing that we get to do. I mean, like that's the thing. Could you imagine?

1:04:37And what's our total now? 2.2? Oh, I can tell you, I looked at it today. We have raised for

1:04:43St. Jude over the last four years, $2,207,557. That is an unimaginable amount of money that

1:04:52the little podcast network that could has raised. You know what I mean? Like incredible. So good.

1:04:59So thankful. Amazing thing. Makes all the work worth it. But like at the, in the middle of August,

1:05:06that work feels horrible. It gets better. Like once September starts, it's fine. I think like,

1:05:12because then you just in it. But like before anything has even begun, it's like, oh man.

1:05:18Plus we have, you know, our attention has been a little split with planning the live show.

1:05:25Yes. But I think that's going to be luckily that after like next week, that we'll be able to just

1:05:32take a back seat for a while, which will be perfect. Yeah. And I also have my Kickstarter,

1:05:37like finishing with that project, doing fulfillment. And so I've tried to set it up

1:05:42where I don't have to touch any of that in September. The calendar is at the printer for

1:05:46a press test today, right? The stickers are already here, like getting a lot of stuff done in advance.

1:05:52So it's ready for me in October once the campaign's done. But right now it's pretty hectic.

1:05:57Fishakai asks, Mike and a few other hosts on the network have work shows and feeling shows. I just

1:06:02heard John talk about that on Spotlight. Steven, you have plenty of work shows. What would your

1:06:09feelings show be like? What would it be called? Get connected pro.co. Uh, no. Yeah, I guess,

1:06:16I guess that's kind of, I have thought about this. I have long wanted to do a show like analog,

1:06:24like way back in the day, you had a, you had a show with a friend of ours and it's like kind

1:06:28of feeling show cooking with Brett and Mike. If anyone remembers that, does anybody know this?

1:06:35I don't know like that. I really, if, if we say cooking with Brett and Mike and you know what that

1:06:42is like, please let us tell me, please tell me. So I've long, even back then I've wanted to do

1:06:48a show like that, but I don't know who I would do it with. My concern with that show always is

1:06:55longevity. I mean, you look at what y'all have done with analog, right? It's one of the original

1:07:00shows, but you've gone from weekly to monthly over time. Rec diffs is going strong, but Merlin and

1:07:05John are both, I think way more interesting than me, so they can just go forever. Uh, so I don't

1:07:10know what it would be like or what it would be called. I would like a place to talk about some

1:07:15of that stuff and I don't really feel like I have an outlet for that. So who knows? I don't have any

1:07:21concrete plans, but I always kind of kind of halfway interested in it. It's an interesting

1:07:26type of show to do. It's difficult to balance sometimes like you're giving a lot of your emotion

1:07:33to the world, which can be hard. It is, it can be very valuable, but it can also like be tough.

1:07:40There's a tangential to what you were saying, but I think it's also difficult from like a privacy

1:07:44perspective. For instance, I don't post pictures of my kids online. Josiah's picture is part of the

1:07:50St. Jude campaign. That's why we do it, but he is not part of the campaign. I try very hard not to

1:07:57use the names of my other kids or even his name if I can get away with it. Like, so there's also

1:08:01some of that of like, there are things that I would talk about with, with like friends, you know,

1:08:06like you and other people we work with and my friends in Memphis that are specific things that

1:08:11I would not feel comfortable sharing on a podcast. Like there's also that to navigate, which is really

1:08:15what gives me pause more than anything else. Ralsey asks, if this were a biography, how would

1:08:19you break down the timeline? Do we think we're in the middle of an era start or an end? What do you

1:08:25think about the one I laid out earlier about like, with before we were both full time from that to

1:08:302020 and 2020 to now, do you feel like that is work, works? Do you think there's more like?

1:08:36I think that you've probably established that like that 2014 to 2020 was probably the start

1:08:44and that 2020 onwards is probably the middle. I would say we're in the middle. I don't even think

1:08:49we're in the middle of the middle. You know what I mean? But like, I just feel like life cycle at

1:08:54the company is the middle, but I also don't really feel like in this scenario, start, middle and end

1:08:59would be equal amounts of time. No, it's more just like mindset. But like, I feel like we are

1:09:05just firmly middle. Like in the sense of like what we're doing in the sense that we're not trying to

1:09:11scale anymore when we're not looking to add content anymore. You know, like all this kind of stuff

1:09:19is like, you know, we're not really in that phase, but we're not near the end. Like at least for us,

1:09:28right? Like we're not playing an exit, you know, we're not planning on what happens after us.

1:09:32Although we do have a document now of what happens in emergencies because we realized after my car

1:09:37accident that was probably important to have written down. So which is still a thing we need

1:09:42to review because I feel like we set it up and haven't reviewed it. But like, yes, that scared

1:09:46me a lot. I just realized that like, I didn't know what was going on with you. And I didn't know how

1:09:51to do anything. Like I had no idea. Like if something happened to you, I had no idea what to do.

1:09:59And that was quite scary. So, cause we have responsibilities. Like obviously the most

1:10:03important thing to me is you. We do. But then there are other people that rely on us. And so

1:10:09like what I was focused on at that time was like, there needs to be a document that tells us what to

1:10:16do so that we don't have to think. Because in those moments, the last thing you want to do,

1:10:22yeah, exactly. The last thing you want to do is sit down and be like, oh, what does Mike do on a

1:10:26weekly basis? Like, no, like I want to be there for my friend and his family. Something terrible.

1:10:30What is the bank account number? Like, you know, like these kinds of things where like,

1:10:34I mean, we've, I feel like I have, I'm sure you have been involved in this kind of thing in

1:10:40families. Oh yeah. And how difficult it is. And like, I feel like we have way more complicated

1:10:46stuff than I do in my family. Right? Like something happened to me or something happened to you. I

1:10:53feel like it would be more complicated than if something like just from a logistical standpoint,

1:10:57than if something happened in my immediate family. Like all of the things that would have to be taken

1:11:03care of and the fact that we span the globe. Yeah. Yeah. Which comes with some like really

1:11:09hairy financial complications. Yep. So strange. Like having someone here in the US who has access

1:11:16to our bank account, that's not me. Right. We had to go through that years ago because I can't.

1:11:20Something does happen to me and you gotta, you know, you need the money's here, right? It's in

1:11:25America. The bank won't ever let me log into the online bank. No, it locks us out every time. You

1:11:30can't use your debit card, which probably has expired years ago anyways. Greg asks,

1:11:34have you ever talked to your partner in your podcast voice by mistake? There's no difference

1:11:38anymore. Do you, let me expand the question. Have you ever talked to somebody in your podcast

1:11:44advertising voice? Cause that is different, I think slightly. Oh, cause that's reading. So this

1:11:49happened to me, has happened to me many times, like reading a book with my kids and I slip into

1:11:54my podcast ad voice. Oh, I guess, I mean, I haven't done that, but I guess, you know what?

1:12:02I've probably done that kind of thing. If I have to, like, when I did a speech recently,

1:12:06I was the best man and I probably did that in my podcast advertising voice. Um, so yeah, I guess

1:12:12see, that's the thing is like my reading voice is a more fake voice, I suppose. Right. Cause it's

1:12:17like that, right? Like it's that right. Like the little rhythm stuff that I do, but like my actual

1:12:26speaking voice and my podcast voice, they are now effectively the same, which is why I have this

1:12:32like weird accent. And I say things like mobile, you know, and like, like, I don't just say those

1:12:38on the shows anymore. Like that's just my language, you know, uh, the only ever, I guess the only

1:12:44thing for me is like, if I ever actually slip into my non podcast voice, that's the weird thing.

1:12:49Like if I'm around my family and I've had a few drinks or whatever, like maybe,

1:12:53maybe I like slip backwards into my cockney accent a little bit more, you know, a little more British.

1:12:59Yeah. But outside of that, no, but yeah, the reading one is not one that I've encountered yet,

1:13:05but I imagine that will be the same for me. And I think that's hilarious and adorable.

1:13:09Uh, Zoe asks, what's the most surprising thing about running a podcast company?

1:13:14People now nine years in understand it. When I say I own a podcast company for a living,

1:13:19that used to not be the case. Yeah. I mean, I would say on that, that like I've,

1:13:23I have owned a podcast company for nine years and still don't feel comfortable talking about it.

1:13:27Yeah. There's that too. I don't know what surprised me. I mean, we had a lot of experience before

1:13:33relay through 70 decibels and through our time at five by five. So I don't, I don't know. Does

1:13:38it, I mean, does this something jump out at you? Oh yes. I have something just how many spammy

1:13:44pitches we get on a daily basis for, for technology in our field. It is truly unbelievable.

1:13:51Like I never would have imagined there could be so many companies trying to revolutionize

1:13:56podcasting as there are. I would say it is more than one, but less than five on a daily basis.

1:14:03Yep. Of companies that are like, Hey, I'm going to make everything better for you. You know what I'm

1:14:09like, you know, it's just like, Oh my God. Like the best part is, so we have a bunch of email

1:14:14addresses like hello. Plus connected at relay FM. Hello. Plus MPU really not a femme for

1:14:18feedback. And those emails, some of them are gone from the site. Some aren't,

1:14:23but they're all out there. And the best part is when someone sends one of those emails to a bunch

1:14:28of those, because they all ended up in our shared inbox, long time followup. You know, I had a couple

1:14:32of episode arc where I was really mad about the new spark, right. And all the changes that they

1:14:37made. Some of them are still not great. They've made some stuff better. One of the great features

1:14:41is they have like the fact that you can block people, you can block sender or block domain.

1:14:46So I get one of those. I press block domain and I never hear from that company again.

1:14:50Can I just name one of these companies? This is one company called picked cherries, which is like

1:14:55the worst name ever in my mind. And it's meant to be like cherry picked segments, right? That's what

1:15:02they're going for. Oh yeah. Oh, but picked cherries, all capital letters, social podcast sharing.

1:15:07Absolutely terrible. And these people like on a, I don't know, six week basis or whatever,

1:15:14would just send an email to every single show. Like I think what a lot of these companies do is

1:15:20they scrape the podcast database for the email addresses that are in the RSS feeds, which I

1:15:26think has now been, I was very happy about this. Apple took this away. It's too late for us,

1:15:31but good for other people that like, that's not actually a public part anymore. Yeah. It's not

1:15:36required in the spec anymore. It's not required anymore, which is great. But yeah, we get emails

1:15:40from this picked cherries company and they will just email like every few weeks or whatever.

1:15:45They will send a bunch of emails and then they will send the followup email because they're just

1:15:50not sure if we got it. Cause that's the only reason we wouldn't have responded is that we

1:15:53didn't get it. Cause obviously this is a great deal for everybody. They have patented technology,

1:15:58Steven, apparently. And also what I love about this is it is an app. They want you to use that

1:16:05app. Like everyone's going to use this app when reels and TikTok exists. Yeah. You know,

1:16:13No, that ain't it. All right. Let me wrap us up with a question from Jason. Not that Jason,

1:16:20I don't think. What is something either of you do in running the business of relay today that

1:16:25you wish you had been doing from the outset? I'm going to say something some people aren't

1:16:30going to like. Time tracking. Oh, why aren't people going to like that? People get mad when

1:16:38you guys talk about it on cortex. You know, I see. No, no. No one gets mad that we talk about time

1:16:42tracking. I'll tell you that people love it. People get mad that we don't talk about time tracking

1:16:46enough. That's that's what you've chosen to take away from that. That's that's on you.

1:16:52No, it's kind of boring or whatever, but I didn't. I'll tell you it's not boring.

1:16:56Time tracking is not boring. I didn't time track faithfully for a long time. I've been doing it now

1:17:01about three years and what it gives me in terms of visibility and how I'm actually spending my time

1:17:07is very useful. And I wish I, one, had the historical data, but also had that sort of

1:17:15objective data to make decisions earlier on about things. So that's my answer. That is good.

1:17:21It's complicated for me for the business part. Like that's where I struggle with it. Like there

1:17:26are things like, you know, I kind of wished I used third party edit sooner than I did.

1:17:34So I edit shows too many shows for too long. And now I don't really do so much of that anymore.

1:17:42That was a definite good change in my life, but that's not really the business stuff.

1:17:51And I don't want to reuse like, you know, hiring someone is also not realistic, right? Like,

1:17:56yeah, I had someone at the beginning. So like that, that's just like a cheat answer.

1:18:00Some of our really boring internal processes are better using Google Sheets less for things. Like

1:18:07we use Google Sheets for everything, and that was not the right choice for a long time. Let me still

1:18:13use Google Sheets for a lot of stuff and it's really good. But we also have some numbers,

1:18:17sheets floating around. I just mean like a system that does calculation for me rather than be.

1:18:23Oh yes. We've also, there was a time, built some software with a Google Sheet and a calculator and

1:18:28work out how much to pay everybody. Yeah. That's handled in software now. Yeah. So like that,

1:18:36that, that was the kind of thing where I shouldn't have been doing that ever,

1:18:39but we just didn't really have any other way of doing it. I think, I think that does it. Thank you

1:18:44all for an amazing nine years. And remember if you are a member of Connected or any other show here on

1:18:50Relay FM, keep an eye out for the ticket link on Friday for our 10th anniversary show happening in

1:18:55London in July of next year. If you're not a member and you're interested in longer ad-free

1:19:01versions of this show, or maybe your other favorite Relay shows, you can learn a lot more

1:19:06at relay.fm/membership. There's a bunch of stuff there that tells you all the cool benefits you get.

1:19:11It's a great program and we thank you all for checking it out. And we'll be talking publicly

1:19:17on social media and on shows starting on Monday about the ticket link for non-members. I know

1:19:24what people are going to ask us this question a lot, but we do not have times to tell you because

1:19:29it's about when the venue will put the ticket link up and then when we'll share it. So like,

1:19:34we actually don't know the time. But there's a lot of seats. I'm sure it'll be fine.

1:19:40Buy early, buy often. That's what I say. Well, you don't need to buy often, but buy early.

1:19:44Bring your whole family. Please buy early. And yes, bring your whole family.

1:19:47So in doing all the paperwork, I think I told you this, but I'll share it on the show.

1:19:51Going back and forth to the venue, right? There's always questions and things. And there was a

1:19:55question about what our babes in arms policy was going to be. And like, I know what that means,

1:20:01right? It means like if you have a small child, can they sit with you? But that is not a phrase

1:20:04that we use. I don't know what the American phrase would be, but something about that phrase tickled

1:20:09me in a way that I did not expect that I still think it's funny. Like babes in arms. That is a

1:20:14very English to me. Like that is an incredibly English saying, babes in arms. Because also,

1:20:23what it doesn't mean is like your hot babe. You know what I mean? It actually means baby.

1:20:29Like it's what it means. Children. Or armed babies, you know? I mean that.

1:20:32Yes. It's not like your hot armed person. This is my baby. This is my baby's weapon.

1:20:41That's not what that means.

1:20:46I've lived in the south too long.

1:20:47Yeah. Babes in arms is a...

1:20:49Babes in arms.

1:20:50Are you going to be... Will you allow people to hold children?

1:20:53Yes. And we said yes. It's a family friendly show.

1:20:56And the show is going to be made to be as enjoyable as possible to everyone. Like...

1:21:02For children.

1:21:03It is for children. It is not going to be a technology focused show in that way. Like,

1:21:10we're going to be playing Family Feud or as it will be called in the United Kingdom,

1:21:14Family Fortunes, which is the name of the show in the UK. Get used to the fact that everything's

1:21:19going to be UK focused because that's where we're going to be. So it would be Family Fortunes.

1:21:23You got to sit on the left hand side of the seat, you know?

1:21:25Exactly. You got to sit on the left hand side.

1:21:28Everybody... All the stage will just be used on the left. Everyone looks to the left.

1:21:32We found we're going to be playing Family Fortunes and like,

1:21:36I'm going to be coming up with the questions and I'm going to make them as like,

1:21:39you know, simple as possible. I will say there will be a link in the show notes to our fifth

1:21:46anniversary show. We did have a YouTube video of that because it was not so expensive to work

1:21:52with video that year. So I will have a link to that if you want to get an idea of what it will be.

1:21:57And if you are interested, please buy a ticket. Please buy a ticket.

1:22:01If you want to find links to the stuff we spoke about, including our long history of doing this

1:22:06Q&A in different places, check out the links. They were in your podcast player. They're also

1:22:11on the web at relay.fm/connected/463. If you want more of us, you can find us online. Federico

1:22:19should be back next week, but he of course is the editor in chief of maxstories.net and he is on

1:22:24Mastodon as Vitici at maxstories.net. You can find Mike on a bunch of other great shows here on relay.fm.

1:22:32He's also the co-founder of Cortex Brand, which I'm sure y'all are busy with the holidays. They're

1:22:36not that far away, right? Oh, Steven. Is that something else you have on top of Live Show and

1:22:42Podcast-a-Thon and St. Jude and everything else? I'll tell you about it, Layah. It's just rough

1:22:47right now. Yeah, I'm not asking for a spill of the beans. I know, I know you're not, but like I should

1:22:52tell you and it's bad. It's just scary. Scary is what I'm going for. If you want to follow along

1:22:58with Mike and his adventures, he is on threads as imike and he's on Mastodon as imike@mike.social.

1:23:06You can find me on MacPowerUsers every Sunday afternoon here on relay.fm. This coming episode,

1:23:12we have Casey Liss on to talk about Call Sheet. Oh, great. And talk about Plex and his whole media

1:23:18management system. It's a really good episode. Oh, good. I know what chapter I'll listen to and what

1:23:22chapter I'll skip, so that's good. You're going to skip Call Sheet? I've heard about it too many

1:23:27times at this point. You know what I'm saying? Give me some Plex. Plex me up. Plex me up. So

1:23:33that's coming Sunday. You can find my writing at 512pixels.net. You can follow me on social media

1:23:37as ismh86 on threads and ismh@eworld.social on the don. I'd like to thank our sponsors this week,

1:23:46the wonderful folks at NetSuite, Squarespace and ZocDoc. Links to all of them are also in the show

1:23:51notes. And until next week, Mike, say goodbye. Happy anniversary, Steven. Listeners, thank you

1:23:57so much for being on this journey with us. Goodbye. Love you. Bye.