474: I'm Not a Doctor, I'm an Auditor


00:00:00   [music]

00:00:09   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 474 for August 28th, 2023.

00:00:15   My name is Mike Hurley and I am joined by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason!

00:00:19   Hi, Mike Hurley!

00:00:21   And we have a special guest today, Stephen Hackett. Hi, Stephen Hackett!

00:00:25   Hello, boys! That explains the energy.

00:00:27   This episode is brought to you by Fitbod and Ladder.

00:00:31   We'll talk about those a little later on in the show.

00:00:33   I have a Snell and Hackett talk question to begin this week's episode.

00:00:38   And it came from me because I didn't ask anyone to give a specific question

00:00:42   for the two of you.

00:00:43   And so my question is to both of you,

00:00:45   what is your favorite planet that is an Earth and why?

00:00:49   Snell and Hackett sounds like a company that would make like hammers.

00:00:53   Yep. I know what Jason's is, I think.

00:00:57   I don't know if you do.

00:00:58   All right, well, that might be more fun, actually.

00:01:00   Why don't we do it that way, Stephen?

00:01:01   What's Jason's favorite planet?

00:01:03   I'm going to say I think Venus is probably high on Jason's list.

00:01:07   OK, why?

00:01:08   Because he wants to take a blimp there.

00:01:10   I want to send a balloon to Venus.

00:01:12   Well, that is true.

00:01:15   I'm going to say Saturn, though.

00:01:19   I'm going Saturn instead.

00:01:21   That's good.

00:01:21   Is your favorite Jason?

00:01:23   Yeah, that's my favorite.

00:01:24   Why?

00:01:24   What I think Stephen's favorite is is Mars.

00:01:26   OK, I think I think Mars is in my top two or three.

00:01:31   Yeah. Oh, OK.

00:01:32   For sure. OK, well, that was good work.

00:01:35   Great work, everybody.

00:01:36   What was your favorite planet, Stephen?

00:01:39   Stephen, did you say what your favorite planet is?

00:01:41   What is my favorite planet?

00:01:43   You know, Saturn came to mind.

00:01:45   I think it's beautiful and obviously unlike anything we have in our solar system.

00:01:49   And it's got some good moons, good moons and a lot of moons.

00:01:53   They just keep popping up out there.

00:01:55   When choosing a favorite planet, choose also based on the neighborhood, right?

00:01:59   It's location, location, location when it comes to planets.

00:02:01   Absolutely.

00:02:02   If you would like to send in a regular SnellTalk question for a future episode,

00:02:07   go to upgradefeedback.com and you can do that.

00:02:10   Now, Stephen's here for a very special reason today,

00:02:14   which we're going to get to in a little bit.

00:02:16   But there's a maybe even more special reason why it's good to have Stephen

00:02:20   on this week's episode is because we are we're starting the St.

00:02:24   Jude campaign, Relay FM for St.

00:02:26   Jude because September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month.

00:02:29   Once again, for the fifth year in a row, the Relay FM community

00:02:34   is coming together to support St.

00:02:35   Jude Children's Research Hospital.

00:02:37   St. Jude won't stop their life saving work until no child dies from cancer.

00:02:41   And with your support, we'll be one step closer to that day.

00:02:44   One cure closer, one child closer.

00:02:48   Now, let me tell you a little bit about what St.

00:02:51   Jude is all about. Around the world, an estimated four hundred

00:02:53   thousand children are diagnosed with cancer each and every year.

00:02:56   And even more tragically, in many low and middle to income countries,

00:03:00   four out of five children will not survive,

00:03:02   largely due to the lack of access to quality care.

00:03:05   And St. Jude Children's Research Hospital and all of us at Relay FM

00:03:09   want to change that.

00:03:10   Curing childhood cancer is a tremendous undertaking,

00:03:13   and St. Jude needs our support.

00:03:15   The generosity of donors around the world, including you, support

00:03:18   cutting edge research, saves lives and ensures families

00:03:22   never receive a bill from St.

00:03:24   Jude for treatment, travel, housing or food.

00:03:26   St. Jude Children's Research Hospital won't stop until no child dies from cancer,

00:03:30   no matter where they live.

00:03:31   But they can't do that without your help.

00:03:33   Stephen, can you talk a little bit about why St.

00:03:35   Jude is important to you?

00:03:37   Yeah, absolutely.

00:03:38   In 2009, my wife and I's oldest son was diagnosed with brain cancer.

00:03:44   He was just six months old.

00:03:46   He went to a well-baby checkup and they had some concerns.

00:03:49   And within 72 hours, we were having surgery

00:03:53   and being introduced into the world of St. Jude.

00:03:56   And my wife tells this story, so I'll give her credit for it.

00:03:59   But when we were we were at our local children's hospital

00:04:02   and we were going to be admitted to St. Jude

00:04:04   and we were like running around,

00:04:05   try to figure out, you know, what to do and what they needed.

00:04:08   And we got a call from St.

00:04:10   Jude and they said, like, don't worry about us.

00:04:12   Like, we have all the information we need about you.

00:04:15   You know, we're talking with your health care team now.

00:04:17   We're going to get you moved over to St. Jude.

00:04:20   And from that very first phone call until today,

00:04:25   you know, all these years later,

00:04:28   they do everything in their power to take care of these families.

00:04:31   Of course, they are doing it with the the best treatment

00:04:33   and the best research on the planet.

00:04:36   But because of fundraisers like the amazing Relay FM community

00:04:40   and really the broader Apple community now at this point

00:04:42   being involved in this fundraiser each year, it means that

00:04:47   food and housing and all those things were also taken care of for us.

00:04:50   Now, we're a local Memphis family.

00:04:52   St. Jude has been in my backyard my whole life.

00:04:54   I honestly didn't know how special it was until we needed it.

00:04:58   And that's one reason we do this campaign is so other people can know

00:05:01   how special it is and get on board with this life saving mission,

00:05:04   because it's work that that is so important.

00:05:07   I mean, there's numbers you rattled off, Mike, like the thought

00:05:10   that came through my mind is like those numbers are unacceptable to me.

00:05:13   It's unacceptable that so many children

00:05:17   not only receive a cancer diagnosis, but so many kids don't survive it.

00:05:21   We're really fortunate through the work of St.

00:05:23   Jude that our son is still with us.

00:05:25   And I am thankful for that every single day.

00:05:27   But that should be true for every kid in every family.

00:05:31   And that's only possible by furthering their work.

00:05:33   So over the course of our campaigns, we've raised two point

00:05:39   two million dollars for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.

00:05:42   And we want your help again this year because we want to surpass

00:05:45   two point five million dollars and we want you to help us get there.

00:05:49   We can do this together.

00:05:50   We're so incredibly grateful for the generosity of everyone

00:05:53   in the community over the last five years.

00:05:56   And we want to ask for your support again.

00:05:58   And we're going to give some thanks to you if you do.

00:06:00   So if you do donate an individual gift of sixty dollars or more,

00:06:04   you'll receive a digital bundle of relay FM wallpapers and screensavers.

00:06:07   Last year, our screensaver sent shockwaves through the community.

00:06:11   It's really amazing. Made by the wonderful James Thompson.

00:06:14   James has done it again. He's back at it again.

00:06:16   He's back at it like a bad habit and he's made a new one.

00:06:19   So don't miss out.

00:06:20   If you donate an individual gift of one hundred dollars or more,

00:06:23   you'll also receive a twenty twenty three sticker pack

00:06:25   featuring all new designs, which are in the Mike versus Stephen

00:06:29   design palette, which we'll talk about a little bit later, I think,

00:06:33   as to why that is a thing this year.

00:06:35   When you donate, when you make your donation,

00:06:38   we have a new thing this year to help with employee matching.

00:06:42   So if you click the blue button, this is search employer.

00:06:45   When you are on the donation summary page,

00:06:47   you can check to see if your employer offers a matching gift program.

00:06:50   If they do, you'll get an email after you make a donation with details

00:06:54   on how to have their match credited to our campaign total.

00:06:57   If you work for a big company or a medium company or any company at all,

00:07:01   please check this out when you donate because you could double your donation.

00:07:04   If you want to get more hands on, you can start your own fundraising campaign

00:07:08   to help us reach our goals or earning exclusive merchandise.

00:07:11   So you can sign up over at St.

00:07:12   Jude.org/relay.

00:07:13   There's a bunch of information there, too.

00:07:15   And you can create your own fundraiser.

00:07:17   You can share this with your friends, your family, people in your community.

00:07:21   Maybe you're a content creator of your own.

00:07:23   Fundraisers who raise at least one dollar will receive a twenty twenty three

00:07:26   face off edition of the Relay FM for St. Jude Challenge coin.

00:07:30   Fundraisers who raised two hundred fifty dollars

00:07:32   or more will receive this year's incredible desk mat design.

00:07:35   And new for this year, the top 50 fundraisers at the end of the campaign

00:07:39   will receive a limited edition Relay FM for St.

00:07:42   Jude tote bag, which is super fancy.

00:07:44   And an all the weather material with a laptop sleeve may have a surprise

00:07:48   or two inside.

00:07:49   Please go right now to St. Jude.org/relay to donate

00:07:53   and to find out more about fundraising.

00:07:55   That is St. Jude.org/relay to learn more and donate today.

00:07:59   St. Jude won't stop until no child dies from cancer.

00:08:03   With your support, we'll be one step closer to that day.

00:08:06   One cure closer, one child closer.

00:08:09   This month and every month.

00:08:10   Let's cure childhood cancer together.

00:08:12   Closer, closer together.

00:08:15   Podcastathons coming back to Stephen.

00:08:18   When's the podcast? Yes.

00:08:20   Podcastathon is Friday, September 22nd.

00:08:24   Bow bow bow.

00:08:26   Sorry, that was exciting.

00:08:28   We had to do some air horns there. That's good.

00:08:30   It's going to be twelve noon Eastern

00:08:34   and run all the way through midnight.

00:08:37   Twelve hours.

00:08:39   And we have a couple of very special guest hosts who'll be joining us.

00:08:43   Yep. One of them is on this show.

00:08:46   Yes, it's true.

00:08:47   I'll be I'm coming to Memphis, boys.

00:08:49   You can't keep me away because this year we need adjudicators

00:08:52   because the theme of the podcastathon this year is Mike versus Stephen.

00:08:58   Throughout the month, there's going to be points.

00:09:01   There's going to be points flying all over the place to crown

00:09:04   one true winning co-founder at the end of the campaign.

00:09:08   There's going to be games and shenanigans the whole way through.

00:09:11   Jason, I haven't spoken to you about this yet,

00:09:13   but I'm wondering if the draft this year could fill in to the point scoring.

00:09:17   You may be able to to to fight on behalf of Stephen.

00:09:20   So the points from the draft might become points for the campaign this year.

00:09:25   Jason could be my champion, you know.

00:09:26   He could be. He could be your tribute. Jason could be your tribute.

00:09:29   So there's going to be loads of games throughout the month.

00:09:33   We'll be talking more about that.

00:09:34   But if you see the artwork and you're like, why is Stephen and Mike fighting?

00:09:37   Well, it's because this year Stephen and Mike are fighting.

00:09:40   Why do daddies fight? For charity.

00:09:44   For the children. For the children. For the kids.

00:09:47   St. Jude.org/relay to donate now, find out more.

00:09:51   We're going to be talking about this throughout the month.

00:09:52   Thank you so much if you take part.

00:09:54   Thank you.

00:09:56   So there is another reason why Stephen's here today.

00:09:59   A couple of weeks ago on Connected, I asked Stephen to audit my Macintosh,

00:10:03   both hardware, software, and the way that I use it.

00:10:05   Jason, you wanted to be audited too, correct?

00:10:08   Yeah, I did. I thought that was a really good idea.

00:10:11   And we were talking about there were some scheduling issues and it was possible

00:10:14   that you weren't going to be on this episode.

00:10:15   And I thought, well, we could get Stephen on.

00:10:17   And then I thought, oh, you know, Stephen could do that thing where he puts on his,

00:10:22   you know, we, Mike, we know Stephen as the genial,

00:10:26   connected co-host or maybe a friendly

00:10:31   co-host of many departed podcasts.

00:10:34   But he has another hat that he wears and it's the Mac power users hat.

00:10:39   And I could hear the shifting of gears on that Connected episode

00:10:44   where Stephen, you know,

00:10:46   took off the Japes hat and put on the Sirius Mac power users hat and analyzed

00:10:51   your Mac usage. And I said, you know what? I kind of want to see that Stephen.

00:10:54   And so the, the idea that on August 28th, we could,

00:10:58   we could have Stephen on, I thought that would be a good use of the brain power

00:11:03   of Stephen Hackett on upgrade. So audit me, man, let's do it.

00:11:07   Audit me.

00:11:08   Audit him, daddy.

00:11:09   I didn't say that. I very specifically steered away from that, Mike.

00:11:14   It's all for the kids.

00:11:16   I guess.

00:11:17   All for the kids. So in the show notes,

00:11:21   there's a picture of your setup.

00:11:24   There's a picture of your dock and your menu bar.

00:11:26   We will get to all of that. Yep. So Jason,

00:11:30   I know listeners of upgrade will be familiar with your setup,

00:11:35   but I believe you're using a Mac studio mounted under the desk.

00:11:40   Under the desk. That's right. The right place for a Mac studio,

00:11:44   especially the M1, because it means you can't hear the fans. Yeah.

00:11:47   I still want to know what happened with that computer. Like what,

00:11:51   why is it so loud?

00:11:54   You got a studio display floating on an arm.

00:11:57   I know you got a MacBook air floating around there.

00:12:00   Tell me a little bit about why the Mac studio and what,

00:12:05   and particularly like why you're such a fan of the floating display lifestyle.

00:12:10   Cause your iMac hung in the air too, didn't it? Yes. I'll say on the same arm.

00:12:13   The floating display. I, I was just getting frustrated by the,

00:12:19   by that foot on the desk.

00:12:21   I feel like you can't put stuff behind it because the computer's in the way.

00:12:25   And I liked the idea that like, I, I,

00:12:29   I don't know, I bought the whole desktop, so I want to use it.

00:12:34   I paid for this whole desk. Why would I only use some of it? Uh, and so I,

00:12:39   I just like having it suspended. I can push it out of the way.

00:12:42   If I'm doing a video, I can push it back further. I can make it go up higher.

00:12:45   I can actually, uh,

00:12:47   if I'm cleaning the desk or I'm doing something that doesn't involve a computer,

00:12:50   I can push it all the way back and kind of like off to the edge of the desk,

00:12:54   uh, adjusted up and down. Um, and, and put stuff underneath it. I mean, honestly,

00:12:59   that's like the number one reason is that I can,

00:13:01   I can have access to whatever is sitting underneath it. And I mean,

00:13:05   I would do fine, I guess with a, okay.

00:13:08   The other thing is the iMac wasn't adjustable in terms of height. Right.

00:13:12   And I've got a, I've got a sit stand adjustable desk. And I did,

00:13:16   I did not want to be one of those people.

00:13:17   Sorry to those people who have like their iMac sitting on a dictionary

00:13:22   or something. Oh yeah. I was that person for years. Yeah. Right. I just,

00:13:27   I don't like it. So I wanted it to be adjustable. It is true.

00:13:30   I could have probably bought this studio display with the adjustable stand and

00:13:34   done that. But the fact is I already have a VESA arm and it was several hundred

00:13:39   dollars cheaper to just buy the VESA mount version of the, uh,

00:13:43   of the display and put it on that same arm. So that's what I did. Um, so,

00:13:48   you know,

00:13:48   it's one of those things that I think it came out of partially just wanting

00:13:52   access to my whole desk and having the flexibility to move it around.

00:13:55   And then partially that, um, back in the day when I was just using an iMac,

00:14:00   the iMacs were only tilt adjustable and not height adjustable,

00:14:03   which is a crappy,

00:14:04   especially if you're in a sit stand desk because the angles are different when

00:14:08   you're standing and when you're sitting. Sure.

00:14:12   I feel like you're setting me up for something here, but I know you're not,

00:14:15   you're here to help. Right. You've taken, you do no harm. Right. Well, I do,

00:14:18   I'm not a doctor. I'm an auditor. Okay. Different vows we take.

00:14:23   All right. Different vows. Audit no harm. Right.

00:14:26   One, uh, one thing you said you like having the space of your desk,

00:14:33   you bought all the desk. You want to be able to use all the desk.

00:14:36   That's a very boomer thing to say, but, uh,

00:14:40   you got a lot of stuff on your desk. Not a boomer, but yeah, I'm sorry.

00:14:44   No one remembers Gen X anyways. It's fine. You got a lot of boxes of stuff here.

00:14:49   You know, boxes, what are the boxes? You got a baseball.

00:14:55   I got little wood trays with stuff in them. It's true. I got a brain ball.

00:14:58   I got a baseball. I got some field notes. I got a pen holder with pens in it.

00:15:01   I got a weird Android e-reader that I'm supposed to write an article about at

00:15:04   some point, but I need to use it. It's dead in this photo I'm looking at.

00:15:07   It is dead. It is. It needs to be charged. It absolutely needs to be charged.

00:15:11   Yeah. There's stuff on that. See, see, that's me using the desk.

00:15:15   Using all the desk.

00:15:17   Cause Steven, if, if I, if I,

00:15:19   I don't see the point in having the desk be completely empty and never have

00:15:25   stuff on it, right.

00:15:26   Then I might as well just have a foot of an iMac or a monitor on my desk. Right.

00:15:29   Because there's nothing on it. But I, I put, I do put stuff on my desk.

00:15:32   I don't leave big stuff piled all over my desk. I try not to do that.

00:15:37   But there's stuff around.

00:15:38   I think you have more input devices than any one person I've ever seen.

00:15:43   Other than David Sparks, who has 15 Streamdex.

00:15:46   Oh, it's not even, it's not even close to David Sparks. Yeah. I've got,

00:15:50   so you can see I've got my microphone. That's an input device sort of, right.

00:15:53   I've got a keyboard. It's the keyboard mic made for me. The Keychron Q1.

00:15:57   I've got the Magic Trackpad.

00:15:59   I've got one of the regular size Streamdex and then I've got the disassembled

00:16:04   Touch ID button from an Apple keyboard in a 3D printed case.

00:16:08   That's my touch,

00:16:09   my standalone Touch ID that I made by destroying a keyboard.

00:16:14   I broke my one of those. I don't know how I did it, but I broke it. So like,

00:16:18   I can't seem to get it to work again.

00:16:21   So I might have to look at doing that again sometime in the future,

00:16:25   but it's all broken. It's tragic. And you have a wrist rest there, Jason?

00:16:29   I do. Okay. Little gushy, like, uh, yeah,

00:16:34   like, uh, what is it? It's like a gel wrist pad.

00:16:37   And the whole thing is on a keyboard tray. It is. I'm,

00:16:42   I'm big keyboard tray guy. And you'd say to yourself, well,

00:16:44   why do you even need a keyboard tray? Cause you got the VESA arm and it's true.

00:16:48   I can do it that way. I think it's, I find it more comfortable. And also again,

00:16:52   keep stuff off the desk, right?

00:16:55   I can slide this right under and it's like, there's no keyboard there at all.

00:16:58   There's something funny to me that you've put the monitor on an arm,

00:17:02   but then pulled the monitor way further forward because the keyboard's on a

00:17:06   keyboard tray. So you're further away from the monitor.

00:17:09   So the monitor covers over way more of the desk. Yes.

00:17:12   Otherwise if you didn't have it on a keyboard tray. It's true.

00:17:15   It is really close, isn't it? I've tried it the other way.

00:17:19   And I don't think the ergonomics of it work as well for me.

00:17:24   Cause I have absolutely tried that where I've pulled everything off the keyboard

00:17:28   and pulled the, pulled the keyboard tray out entirely,

00:17:31   put the stuff on the desk. When I do my Studio B,

00:17:35   which I don't know how much Steven knows about that, but you know,

00:17:39   we're doing some work in the winter, especially in the house.

00:17:43   The idea there, that desk doesn't have a keyboard tray.

00:17:47   So I may actually have a completely different setup there.

00:17:49   But when I tried it here, I, I found,

00:17:53   I went back to the keyboard tray cause I found it a little more ergonomically

00:17:56   pleasant, but I'm not sure why. I don't even remember.

00:17:59   Maybe I'll try it again sometime. But, uh,

00:18:01   the advantage of the keyboard tray is that yeah, there's times like, you know,

00:18:04   sometimes I eat lunch at my desk while I'm watching a video or something.

00:18:07   It's kind of nice to slide the keyboard in a place where the crumbs won't get on

00:18:11   it. So I don't know. Crumb tray.

00:18:13   How many sandwiches are you eating at your desk? Uh, I don't know. One a day.

00:18:18   And now we're auditing your, your lunch break. You need a real lunch break, man.

00:18:23   You gotta don't get done. Sometimes, sometimes I'm, I don't.

00:18:27   And sometimes I do. Yeah, no, I do too. Uh,

00:18:30   the keyboard trade definitely is,

00:18:33   I feel like it's a throwback to computer rooms and like computer hutches.

00:18:39   They've been talking about this on the Verge cast. I've, I've enjoyed it. Right.

00:18:41   You, you had a piece of furniture you bought and hide your computer. Yeah.

00:18:46   Tower went one place. The CRT went another place. If it was new enough,

00:18:50   you had a bunch of plastic trays that you could put optical discs in, you know,

00:18:53   so you could have all those, those stored there.

00:18:55   The keyboard trade just feels like a hangover from that era. A little bit.

00:18:59   I mean, honestly, the, the thing about the keyboard tray is it's adjustable,

00:19:04   right? And, and so the reason, number one reason, all kidding aside to quote,

00:19:08   Casey lists, um, that the,

00:19:11   the reason that it's there is because it's ergonomic and it's adjustable.

00:19:14   So it can tilt forward and back and raise up and down. And that's the reason,

00:19:18   ultimately the reason that I have it is that I can, um,

00:19:23   get it in a position where it is comfortable for me to use it.

00:19:26   And the desk just stays flat. Right. Um,

00:19:30   but this thing actually can have a negative tilt,

00:19:32   so it can kind of a tilt back a little bit so that my wrists aren't bent up as

00:19:37   much, which is better ergonomically.

00:19:39   So some of it is just creating a surface that's not quite, um,

00:19:43   not quite flat, not quite level, but in fact has a little bit of a,

00:19:47   an incline to it. Um,

00:19:49   some people I know take the keyboard tray and actually pop it right up.

00:19:52   So it's all the way up at the top of the, like a desk height.

00:19:55   I don't really understand that. It feels like you're wearing your, you know,

00:19:59   your pants all the way, like pulled way up. It's like, no, no, don't do that.

00:20:03   It goes under so you can tuck it under. But regardless, that's part of it.

00:20:07   It's just the ergonomics of it,

00:20:08   having some more control over how the keyboard and the pointing device are,

00:20:12   uh, positioned so that my, you know, my wrists and my arms don't hurt.

00:20:17   Mm hmm.

00:20:19   And the max studio has a bunch of ports on it.

00:20:21   Honestly, it's one of the best things about that machine.

00:20:23   Do you have any Thunderbolt dock or like USB hub floating around somewhere that

00:20:28   you're trying to hide from me?

00:20:29   So, yes, absolutely. I have a, uh,

00:20:33   I have a USB a hub underneath

00:20:38   Velcro underneath the computer for, so,

00:20:42   so max studio has got a lot of ports on the back, but not enough.

00:20:45   So I have a UPS, uh,

00:20:49   UPS actually does send signals to the Mac. Uh, so the Mac can, uh,

00:20:53   know how much battery is left in the UPS and all of that. Um,

00:20:57   I got a battery, right? So that's gotta go somewhere. Um, I've got,

00:21:01   I actually use my, uh,

00:21:04   track pad plugged in because then it never runs out of power. I,

00:21:09   because my, I have a white keyboard, so it doesn't really matter. Yes.

00:21:12   You got a Bluetooth track pad. Yes. It's plugged in. You can see it right there.

00:21:16   See, no, I see the cable. The,

00:21:18   the, and this is auditing Apple that cable should be color matched,

00:21:22   but that's not your fault. Yeah. There's a black one that I might have,

00:21:26   but it's, this is a gray track pad. And then of course my touch ID button, uh,

00:21:30   I, when I destroyed the keyboard, the battery went with it.

00:21:33   So it needs to be connected all the time. So at that point,

00:21:35   I've got a stream deck. I've got all these little peripherals here,

00:21:38   all these input devices.

00:21:39   They got to get plugged in somewhere and there's not enough ports on the back of

00:21:42   the Mac studio. So I have the little USB a, uh,

00:21:45   hub for some of these miscellaneous items.

00:21:48   I don't know if this has always been the case,

00:21:50   but these days if you buy a space go track player track pad,

00:21:53   they do give you a black cable. Yeah. And I do have,

00:21:56   I think I have a black lightning cable. I I'm using,

00:21:58   you can see I have a black lightning cable. It's plugged into the, the black, uh,

00:22:02   touch ID thing. So I'm color matched over there, but the other one,

00:22:06   the white one is not color matched. I apologize to everyone.

00:22:09   We'll get you a cable. So USB a, a little,

00:22:12   little tiny USB hub, cheap, like I think Amazon,

00:22:17   USB hub. And basically I just forget that it's even there because it's really

00:22:20   just there to supply, you know,

00:22:22   it supplies data because the track pad when it's plugged in,

00:22:25   we'll go into a USB mode, but you know, really it's,

00:22:30   it's not, it's not a lot of data, right?

00:22:32   It's just a little cheap hub that saves me some ports so that I can fill the

00:22:36   ports on the back of the Mac studio with more important stuff like the, uh,

00:22:40   I think the stream deck connects directly.

00:22:42   The microphone connects directly that kind of stuff.

00:22:44   Yeah.

00:22:45   I think having input devices like downstream of that makes sense.

00:22:50   I guess that that is one thing that if you weren't living this floating screen

00:22:55   lifestyle, you know,

00:22:56   you could potentially run some of that off the back of the studio display or

00:23:00   those ports in use at all. I see a camera up there,

00:23:03   but what's going on at the back of the display? Um, well, I just,

00:23:08   I just touched it and it, and it went out. So that was great. Okay.

00:23:12   So we have no display everyone. Jason, Jason's flying blind.

00:23:15   Actually, that's the only cable I think that's back there is that one.

00:23:20   Well, it was there. Not anymore. It's out now.

00:23:23   It's, it's interesting.

00:23:25   I use a studio display and I've never had it fall apart just by touching it

00:23:29   probably cause it sits and what, what holds my setup together is gravity.

00:23:33   It's gravity. It's interesting. Well, I, I just, uh, you know,

00:23:37   apparently yanked on the entire display and it pulled right out. So, uh,

00:23:41   actually there is a webcam, I have an Opal webcam and so it's,

00:23:45   it's plugged in there, but yeah, I don't have,

00:23:47   I would have to route in order to keep my desktop clean.

00:23:50   I would have to route all the cables all the way back to the back of the desk

00:23:53   and then up the arm and all the way to the back of the display.

00:23:56   And so those are there for like right now, recording, um,

00:24:00   upgrade for our social media video purposes, right? That,

00:24:05   uh, that is via a lightning connector to my iPhone using camo.

00:24:10   And that is plugged in. So right now it's plugged in.

00:24:13   So I'll use that for like task driven stuff, but otherwise I,

00:24:17   I don't have anything else. Um, actually when I'm off the beta, I'll,

00:24:21   I'll have somewhere tucked somewhere. I will have a backup drive.

00:24:25   I don't actually have that right now during the beta. Um,

00:24:28   but I have a little USB drive somewhere.

00:24:31   I knew he wasn't going to come back to that.

00:24:33   But I think it goes underneath. I think I actually had that like hiding, right,

00:24:38   nestled right up against the max studio, uh, down below. I used to have it.

00:24:42   It used to live when I had an iMac,

00:24:44   I had it my backup drive lived in the little back of the VESA mount structure.

00:24:48   It just sort of like sat in there, but now, now it, uh,

00:24:51   it sits right above the max studio. So, uh, and the,

00:24:55   and the ports on the front of the max studio, similarly, they,

00:24:57   they aren't permanently attached to anything. I like to keep that clean.

00:25:00   And then if I want to attach something to the front ports, uh, to do something,

00:25:04   I'll do it, but I don't do it permanently. Okay.

00:25:08   I mean, look at all this and I see the, you know, the setup of someone who is,

00:25:12   is very clearly, uh,

00:25:15   very in tune with what he wants in terms of accessories and,

00:25:20   and I guess ergonomics as well.

00:25:22   That seems to be pretty high on your priority list. And I can,

00:25:25   I can get behind that, you know, as we,

00:25:26   as we spend a lot of time at our computers and as we, you know,

00:25:30   I'll get a little bit older, it's important that we don't hurt ourselves.

00:25:32   I was wondering if I was going to cut, it felt like he was angling around it,

00:25:36   but then stopped and then came back to it again.

00:25:38   I don't have like a stuffed animals on just a, just a brain ball.

00:25:43   Just a brain ball. I like it the way I like it.

00:25:45   And the MacBook air is sitting there in this picture. Yeah. You literally,

00:25:49   I just took this picture because I realized I owed you a picture last night.

00:25:53   So you are getting it in, in the raw. I have a cut.

00:25:56   There's a can of Coke zero on the desk too, in this picture. So I see that like,

00:26:00   four inches from the edge of the desk,

00:26:02   right above the keyboard that Mike built you with his own blood, sweat, and tears.

00:26:05   Well, Jason sits so far away from the desk. He still put it on the edge.

00:26:08   You know what I mean? That's true. He can't reach it. It's too far away.

00:26:13   I want to point out that in this photo on the left,

00:26:15   there's a little white plastic box.

00:26:17   You see that little white plastic box off to the left of the, of the U-Bag.

00:26:20   Don't do it. Yeah. What's it? No, don't do it.

00:26:24   If it contains a noise that Mike dislikes.

00:26:28   Oh, but I keep it at the ready just in case. Yeah.

00:26:32   I think you should give us a little taste.

00:26:35   Uh, let's see how I can do this in a way that might protect Mike slightly.

00:26:38   Yeah. Just, just a little taste. Just the, just the, just the tease. Yeah.

00:26:48   Can you talk about the, the, the backup thing?

00:26:51   Are you going to talk about that now?

00:26:52   Uh, yeah,

00:26:54   I saw it in the menu bar that you had an exclamation point on your time machine

00:26:58   icon. Uh, is your data not important when you're writing the beta?

00:27:03   The story there is actually, that's the local backup that failed. Um,

00:27:07   because I copied these enormous files that I did the

00:27:12   360 video of. Um,

00:27:14   and then I also had an enormous project with a bunch of upgrade video in it.

00:27:18   And then I hadn't offloaded that to my external, uh, server.

00:27:22   So it was trying to back up a local,

00:27:25   this is one of these things about time machine that I, I,

00:27:28   I get why it tries to do it, but I don't really love it, which is like, Oh,

00:27:31   you seem to have a package full of two terabytes of data.

00:27:35   Let me back that up to myself. It's like, well, you can't,

00:27:38   you don't have two terabytes free. You can't do that.

00:27:42   And so I actually just yesterday moved the giant, uh,

00:27:46   final cut projects out. It took a while cause they're huge to my server.

00:27:51   So it should be able to do a local backup now going forward.

00:27:55   Cause a local backup is like, if you're not,

00:27:57   it allows you to retrieve files from your local drive.

00:28:01   That are a few hours old instead, which is very clever.

00:28:06   But, um, that part is, has died. My backup, it's also barely a server is fine.

00:28:11   Yeah, it is. It is. It is barely backup. But, um, but my,

00:28:15   my local backup is okay. Okay. So,

00:28:20   so you do, I'm confused.

00:28:22   So you do or don't have like a time machine drive plugged into your computer

00:28:26   right now. Right now I don't,

00:28:27   I'm backing up to my server over the network using time machine. Usually,

00:28:31   I don't have a time machine backup locally. I have a carbon copy cloner,

00:28:35   um, bootable ish, you know,

00:28:38   air quotes and the version of bootable, um, version that,

00:28:43   that is it runs every day. Um, but it's not running at the moment.

00:28:48   Again, because I'm on the beta and I'm actually holding,

00:28:51   I'm essentially holding my last clone before I went to the beta,

00:28:57   just in case something terrible happens. But normally it will be

00:29:02   running, uh, just during the day, an incremental clone.

00:29:06   So it happens really fast, right?

00:29:07   Cause it's only doing the files that have changed since the last time and carbon

00:29:10   copy cloner actually can use snapshots to do things like let you,

00:29:14   it will use extra space on the backup drive to store more versions

00:29:19   of your clone, which is the old way. It was always just the latest.

00:29:22   So if something bad happened and then it ran a clone, the bad thing got cloned.

00:29:27   And now with the, with the new file system stuff,

00:29:30   it can actually have multiple snapshots, uh,

00:29:33   up until the point where the drive can't fit them anymore.

00:29:36   So if your latest clone is actually, you know,

00:29:39   capturing the bad thing that happened,

00:29:41   you can actually go back to a previous version of the clone that doesn't and

00:29:44   then pull the files off. So I use carbon copy cloner for a local, uh,

00:29:48   like literally local right next to the computer,

00:29:51   a backup of the entire drive. Plus I am backing up to my server,

00:29:56   which is in the back of the house in the old bedroom.

00:29:59   So that's not as scary as it first looked. I was like, what, what do you do?

00:30:03   Sorry to disturb you about my backup strategy, but it's, it's an,

00:30:07   it's an okay shape right now.

00:30:08   And then that server also backs itself up to back blaze.

00:30:12   So there's like many layers to this strategy.

00:30:15   Good. Yeah. I approve all that. That's, that's basically mine.

00:30:17   It's time machine it's carbon copy cloner to again,

00:30:22   a drive that sits on my desk and then back blaze gets it off site.

00:30:26   Yeah.

00:30:27   It was just having that two terabytes of like video files that blew up the

00:30:32   backup strategy. Cause you don't want to, those can't be backed up easily.

00:30:37   So I I've now moved them off and they'll get back blaze backed up instead from

00:30:41   the server.

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00:32:58   So now let's move on to Jason's doc situation.

00:33:04   You know, I gotta be honest. I wasn't even thinking about the hardware and, uh,

00:33:08   and I was worried much more about the software. Great. And, uh,

00:33:13   this is scary and I bring, bring back nice,

00:33:17   Steven, but I guess not yet. Okay. Right off the bat,

00:33:23   I'm going to give you points that your doc is on the right side of your display.

00:33:27   Now, like on connected, it's always, people have to stick together.

00:33:31   You got to put it over there like an old, old person, right? Steven, you and me.

00:33:34   Yeah. That's all right. I also have mine there too. Mine's on the right.

00:33:37   All right. It's just three old men talking here, but like connected,

00:33:41   you don't have to submit feedback to upgrade about why that's incorrect or

00:33:45   correct because it's a correct and everybody knows it and you don't have to.

00:33:49   Right. It's your choice to be right or wrong. We don't, you get to choose free.

00:33:54   Well,

00:33:54   I'm just going to rattle off the things you have in your doc because I find it

00:33:59   fascinating. Rattle away really how small, how small, like how minimal it is. Hmm.

00:34:03   So you got finder messages, Safari,

00:34:07   BB edit mime stream, fantastic Cal music,

00:34:11   Slack and discord. Yep. That's all the apps. That's it.

00:34:15   And then you got a couple of folders, dropbox and downloads and the trash. Okay.

00:34:19   Yep. Yeah. Very minimal. I really, uh,

00:34:23   you're not using it as a launcher is kind of what I gather. Well, I'm using it.

00:34:26   So I use launch bar.

00:34:29   So my launcher is launch bar. I do use the doc.

00:34:33   I more for occasionally dragging and dropping like a document onto

00:34:38   the app,

00:34:39   but a lot of it is just seeing the running processes and being able to bring

00:34:43   them to the front. I do that a lot using the doc.

00:34:45   So usually it's not this spare, right? Because I've got other apps running.

00:34:49   Like at the moment I also have zoom and audio hijack running and I have

00:34:54   Photoshop because I just redacted that picture that you were looking at and put

00:34:57   it in the chat room. And like, I have other stuff in there. Um,

00:35:01   and it's just the, it's the running apps. So, uh,

00:35:04   but I don't have a huge collection of permanent, uh, apps in the doc.

00:35:09   Cause yeah, if I want to run audio hijack,

00:35:10   I can either do that from launch bar or I can, um,

00:35:13   press a button on the stream deck that does automation that automatically

00:35:16   launches it. So I don't, um, I don't use the doc, uh,

00:35:20   very much to launch apps.

00:35:22   These are the apps that basically have to be open and if they're not open,

00:35:25   I can, you know, I, I, that's why I put discord in there. Didn't used to be,

00:35:28   but I have a bunch of member discords that I'm in now.

00:35:31   So discord has joined the party of things that basically need to be open all the

00:35:35   time. And if they're not open, I want quick access to get them open. Okay.

00:35:40   What is a doc for? Right? I mean, that, that is a question, right?

00:35:43   Like do I need anything in the doc? Do I even need to see the doc?

00:35:46   I like knowing what's running and it lets me, you know,

00:35:49   quit things and open things and, you know, force quit something that's bad.

00:35:54   And I mean, there's stuff you can do from the doc, but like the doc, I,

00:35:58   I have ended up only really using it to bring apps to the front,

00:36:01   like app windows to the front. That's mostly what it is.

00:36:04   Do you think, uh, to put you on the, you know,

00:36:09   put on my psychologist hat for a second, taking the audit Mac,

00:36:13   you said you weren't a doctor. Well, uh, friendly therapist,

00:36:18   do you think that your need for a small doc is based on your years of using an

00:36:23   11 inch MacBook air? Um,

00:36:27   it's possible. It's, it's possible that that's part of it.

00:36:32   If I'm, boy, I'm really on the couch now. Aren't I? Um, it goes back,

00:36:36   doctor,

00:36:37   it goes back to my childhood when the apple two was,

00:36:40   it was very small and had no doc at all.

00:36:43   There was a vacation we went on to a lake and the doc was small.

00:36:47   And I remember good times with my family. Good times with the small doc.

00:36:50   So here, uh, I think,

00:36:53   I think mostly I don't like having the doc have so many things in it that they

00:36:58   all like get,

00:36:59   it fills up the whole side and they all start to get small and all of that.

00:37:02   I don't like that so much. Um, and like I said,

00:37:05   with having used launch bar for a long time now, like I don't know what, 15,

00:37:10   20 years, a long time I've been using launch bar.

00:37:13   I don't need every app that I might possibly open sitting in my doc.

00:37:17   I just don't. I mean,

00:37:18   there's an argument to be made that I don't need any apps permanently placed in

00:37:22   the doc because if I need to launch an app, I'll just use launch bar.

00:37:25   It becomes more of just a list of currently running apps.

00:37:28   Okay. What is your philosophy on badging on the doc?

00:37:34   I noticed that none of these apps like messages in Mime Stream in particular

00:37:37   might have a badge, uh, but they don't. Do you have them off?

00:37:41   Are you just really on top of your inboxes off? No badges.

00:37:44   We don't need those no stinking badges. Sorry. No bad reference. Yeah.

00:37:49   I don't like badges. I don't want badges anywhere.

00:37:51   I don't have them on my iPhone or my iPad. I don't have them in my Mac.

00:37:54   I'm not interested in badges. Not, not. They give me anxiety. Um,

00:37:58   I don't like it. I have most of my discords and slacks are muted. Like no,

00:38:04   no little dots except for the ones where I have to patrol them. Um,

00:38:09   I don't like the little dots.

00:38:10   They make me uncomfortable and I don't want to see them in my doc where the app

00:38:13   isn't even visible and it's yelling at me. So actually I will say,

00:38:18   messages has a badge and that's mostly because I have some group chats that are

00:38:23   muted that don't give me alerts every time because you know,

00:38:29   basically you're in a group chat and then suddenly somebody sends something and

00:38:32   there's 18 messages.

00:38:33   If you have those set to push out notifications into notification center or

00:38:37   whatever it is like death. So those are muted. Gotta meet the group.

00:38:41   But the badge, the badge is there. So I can,

00:38:46   I can look and invariably somebody in Lauren's family will send a message and

00:38:50   everybody will respond to it.

00:38:51   And that's a group chat that I have muted and I will be working away and I'll

00:38:55   look at the messages app in the doc and it'll say 18 and I'll be like, Oh geez,

00:38:59   what just happened? And I'll go over there and I'll check. So messages is,

00:39:04   is an exception to that. That's, that's mostly cause I don't, you know, I,

00:39:08   I want,

00:39:09   I want to know if somebody's trying to reach me via iMessage and I'm not

00:39:13   necessarily paying attention to little floating notifications that are coming in

00:39:16   when I'm working on my Mac. So that, that's a badge I use.

00:39:19   I don't think any of the others have a badge.

00:39:21   Okay. And not to reopen, uh, an old conversation on upgrade,

00:39:26   but you also don't have any sort of task manager in your doc.

00:39:29   I don't. Yeah. Cause you're a weirdo that puts everything on their calendar.

00:39:35   Please don't tell me you've gone back to that. No. Okay. Good. No. Okay. Um,

00:39:40   however I did see Steven, you posted on five, 12 pixels.

00:39:45   Oh, get ready. When the tables are turned,

00:39:49   I see that you've got a reminders item here. Cause you're like, uh,

00:39:53   I want to change something about reminders. You live your life apparently

00:39:58   with things like I have a to do to go to whole foods at four o'clock today.

00:40:04   Yeah. Yeah. There's a very specific reason. So I got an email about this.

00:40:07   There's a very specific reason that whole foods is 4 PM on Friday.

00:40:12   It's afterschool pickup and our local whole foods Friday is like the good day in

00:40:17   the butcher shop. So if you want like the freshest stuff, it's on Fridays.

00:40:22   I'm with Jason on this. That is a calendar item. Why is it in your reminders?

00:40:26   What is wrong with you? Why would you put this as a reminder?

00:40:30   Why would you do that? It's a calendar item within a look.

00:40:34   There's no guest here. Sorry. No guest of mine. What are you doing here?

00:40:39   What is this? That's madness. Okay.

00:40:43   Steven, I use, uh,

00:40:46   I have a lot of items in my calendar. I do. Um,

00:40:51   it, it, including like my Mac world column,

00:40:54   I try to set aside time to write it.

00:40:56   I make that a calendar item because I'm not because it's a to do that I need to

00:41:01   check off, but because I want to have a place that says,

00:41:05   set aside time here to do this particular work. Um,

00:41:10   and I will do that for, you know, individual events,

00:41:13   but also sometimes as a recurring thing.

00:41:14   Like I like to write my Mac world column on Tuesday afternoon at two,

00:41:19   and I'm going to block off that time.

00:41:20   I'm not going to schedule something else. I also use reminders,

00:41:24   but I'm mostly using reminders as a place to write down all of

00:41:29   my ideas for it's mostly stories I need to write.

00:41:34   Occasionally there will be an actual proper to do in there, um,

00:41:37   that I want to catch my attention because I know that if I put it in a separate

00:41:41   list, I won't see it. So I keep it in the list,

00:41:46   but generally it's for story ideas. It's for pieces to write for, uh,

00:41:51   for the website. But I do not have a task manager and that, that is a,

00:41:54   and I've never, I have never reliably used a task manager to do anything.

00:41:59   Um, yeah, let me have it.

00:42:01   What a statement.

00:42:04   I have never relied on a task manager to do anything.

00:42:08   What am I doing here? Who are these people? Right. I'm like the anti,

00:42:13   uh, every other podcaster, I guess. I don't know.

00:42:18   I don't know what to tell you.

00:42:19   What happened to your Todoist usage?

00:42:21   Oh, I can't remember the last time I opened Todoist.

00:42:26   Yeah, I know that's gone. This isn't what I wanted. All right.

00:42:29   Okay. Which this is the mic on his calendar.

00:42:34   Okay. Oh, okay. Okay. Fine.

00:42:37   I love your choices of third party apps here. BB edit all time.

00:42:43   Mime stream newcomer to the Mac, but absolutely fantastic.

00:42:46   Please give it to me on iOS. Yes, please. And a fantastical another,

00:42:51   another all time. Great. Yeah, it's better. Right? Like,

00:42:55   I'm not going to reopen the wound, but like,

00:42:57   I'm happy to pay for software that is good and a fantastic Cal mime stream.

00:43:01   I are superior to, um, the defaults.

00:43:05   And so I'm happy to pay for them because they work for me and I'm a Gmail email

00:43:09   user. So mime stream is perfect for me. It's made for me literally.

00:43:12   So I am going to take advantage of it. And yes, I would also love it on iOS.

00:43:17   The Gmail app on iOS is like, boys, I don't know.

00:43:21   The last time you used it is so bad.

00:43:24   You know, you know, when I use it,

00:43:25   I use it when I'm on my iPhone and I need to log into my Google account.

00:43:29   And it says, I know you made a two factor and I know you stored it in one password.

00:43:34   We still want to do with open Gmail and tell you a number or

00:43:40   something. I'm like, no, I don't want to open your Gmail. Oh, there we go.

00:43:43   Right. Here's, here's my, my most frustrating thing about that. Right.

00:43:47   I have three Gmail accounts signed into the Gmail app, right.

00:43:51   That I use infrequently, but they're there and I sign them all in.

00:43:55   So I can have more than one inbox, right? One inbox, three email accounts.

00:43:59   Great.

00:44:00   I get that notification when I'm signing in to YouTube or

00:44:04   whatever. And it's like, Oh, we've got to confirm you in the app. When I do that,

00:44:08   it unchecks the email accounts randomly,

00:44:12   not even consistent randomly.

00:44:15   It will uncheck them and just check one of them. So then I,

00:44:18   every single time I do this, I have to go in to the accounts page and make sure,

00:44:23   the ones that I want that are checked. Sometimes they say fine.

00:44:26   Sometimes one of them gets unchecked. Sometimes two of them you'll find out later

00:44:29   on. Right. Like it's just like, it is what it is.

00:44:31   And I have to check it every single time. Uh, maddening really frustrating.

00:44:35   Yeah. Let's switch gears and talk about the menu bar. This is, I think the,

00:44:41   the place where people get into the most trouble. Uh, people can see the image.

00:44:46   Uh, can you walk us through what these icons are and if any are like hidden by

00:44:50   default with something like bartender? Uh, sure. This is actually,

00:44:55   um, yeah, this is with it expanded. So I use bartender and I love it. Um,

00:45:01   what you've got here is left to right stream deck,

00:45:04   which, uh, I like, I like stream deck. It puts a thing in the, it's like a,

00:45:10   it's running in the background. So if you want to configure it,

00:45:13   you kind of got to go to the menu bar item. I don't love that,

00:45:15   but it works fine. And I hide it so I don't have to see it.

00:45:18   Then it is, Oh, what's the, this is the downlink downlink.

00:45:24   It's Anthony Colangelo's, uh, app that uses satellite images, um,

00:45:29   for your back, for your backdrop, for your wallpaper. And so I've got a, my,

00:45:33   my back drop is, uh,

00:45:36   Pacific coast and Pacific ocean satellite view. Uh,

00:45:40   and that gets updated every 10 minutes or something.

00:45:43   It's basically like an almost live view of, of the planet. I like it.

00:45:47   Um, next is home control,

00:45:50   which I don't usually use the UI for, but it has a bunch of automations.

00:45:55   So it allows me to do things like press a button on my stream deck and turn on a

00:46:00   light or lower my blinds or whatever. Um,

00:46:03   and so it lives in the menu bar. Nice little utility.

00:46:07   Next one is a UPS battery actually. Yep. I got that going.

00:46:11   Literally UPS battery. Uh, it's, it's fine. Uh,

00:46:15   uh, time machine with an exclamation point. Yeah. It's freaking out in there.

00:46:21   We talked about that already. Currently it is backing up. So, uh,

00:46:25   I'm looking at it now and everything's okay. Steven, uh, spotlight.

00:46:30   I don't use spotlight. Uh, it's there. It's present. You can, uh,

00:46:35   you can remove it now at some point they added the ability to,

00:46:37   to totally ditch that icon. Well, I should ditch it then. Cause I know,

00:46:40   I don't want it. Yeah. That's my professional advice. Uh, wifi is hidden.

00:46:44   I guess I'm on wifi here. I don't actually need to be cause uh,

00:46:47   I'm on ethernet. So why?

00:46:50   The wifi, I think some handoff stuff requires you to be on wifi,

00:46:56   at least on have it on, but not connected to the local network,

00:46:59   which is my preference shortcuts.

00:47:02   I don't actually usually use those,

00:47:04   but it does show you when a shortcut is running in the background,

00:47:07   which is valuable. It sort of fills in the little shortcut rectangles when it's

00:47:12   running. And if I'm running a long shortcut, it may,

00:47:14   it gives me a little reassurance that that shortcut is still going,

00:47:18   but I don't usually actually run shortcuts from the menu bar and

00:47:23   Dropbox. And that's the end of the hidden items for, uh,

00:47:26   for my menu bar. Those are hidden. They're all stashed away. Yeah.

00:47:31   Bartender hides those. And I don't, I don't see those. So I go like,

00:47:34   if I want to see has somebody uploaded a file to Dropbox or something,

00:47:38   I will mouse up to the menu bar.

00:47:39   Dropbox icon will appear and I'll click on it and look, but I,

00:47:42   I don't need to S those, those are not items that I need to see at a glance.

00:47:46   I just don't.

00:47:47   And I believe the shortcuts icon appears in the visible

00:47:53   section when it's active.

00:47:55   I think there's some of those menu bar items that do weird stuff where they kind

00:47:59   of hop around depending on status. So you can hide them,

00:48:02   but then they pop back in like on laptops, you can hide the,

00:48:06   the battery icon and have it just pop in when you're not plugged in and,

00:48:10   and do it that way if you want to. So that's that part of the menu bar.

00:48:14   It's the not there. I don't have to see that stuff. Then next,

00:48:19   it's the, it's the widget that I wrote in, uh,

00:48:23   in Swift bar. That's my local temperature. And in this case,

00:48:28   you caught me where the air quality was not good.

00:48:31   And so it's got the extra like AQI number next to it with the little

00:48:36   symbol. Um,

00:48:37   that's because we've had some wildfire smoke the last couple of days.

00:48:40   And so it's just a heads up that the it's not there in my current menu bar,

00:48:43   the air is clear right now, but it,

00:48:45   it only appears when the AQI is,

00:48:48   is bad to tell you, you know, in, in addition to it being 75 degrees,

00:48:53   it's the, there's some air quality issues.

00:48:55   Which is the only time you really care about it, right? If they are,

00:48:59   you don't don't ever think about it. Yeah. Right. So I don't have it always showing.

00:49:02   I only have it showing when it's bad.

00:49:04   What's the temperature difference. You have like the up arrow and the four degrees.

00:49:07   Is that change over yesterday or that's changed over yesterday.

00:49:10   Cause I find that valuable sometimes, especially in the morning. Uh,

00:49:13   cause we have weird Bay area weather here,

00:49:15   but I find that valuable if it's in the morning and it's like 10 degrees warmer

00:49:18   than it was yesterday. I'm like, okay, it's going to be a hot day today.

00:49:21   It may not be hot yet,

00:49:22   but I know that it's so much warmer than it was at this time yesterday that it's

00:49:25   going to be a hot day or similarly that it's,

00:49:28   it's not going to be as hot as yesterday cause it's five degrees down or 10

00:49:31   degrees down or whatever. We occasionally,

00:49:33   we have that those days that are the super hot days here and then the fog rolls

00:49:37   in and that leads to some hilarity where, um, the other week I had a day like

00:49:41   that and it was like down 21 degrees from this time yesterday. I'm like, yeah,

00:49:44   yeah. Okay. It's, it's summer is over. Right. So, uh,

00:49:48   that's what that is is no, yeah. The widget. No, it'll be back.

00:49:52   We've got like a couple, maybe a week more. Who knows? Mike,

00:49:56   no one cares about the weather. Yeah. No one cares about the weather.

00:49:59   Besides which I have, I probably have like six or eight weeks of,

00:50:02   of actual proper summer coming. Cause that's how the Bay area does it. Um,

00:50:06   next to that, there's not a lot.

00:50:07   It's fantastic Cal and control center and the clock.

00:50:11   So pretty minimal. Although, yeah, I mean,

00:50:15   right now I've got more stuff up there cause I'm recording an audio hijack and

00:50:18   I'm on zoom and those insert themselves in the menu bar when they're running and

00:50:22   I'm recording on camo. So that's inserted itself.

00:50:24   So there's a little more up there now, but normally when I'm just working at my

00:50:27   desk, uh, this is what you got. Okay.

00:50:30   All in all, I like where you're at. Uh,

00:50:34   I know that weather is important to you and the thing to the Bay area has

00:50:37   microclimates or whatever. So I'm, I'm a weather nerd,

00:50:41   so I'm hip to that taking up a bunch of space. Um, I do,

00:50:44   I do wonder, you know,

00:50:46   I think you could probably get rid of spotlight and wifi cause like wifi control

00:50:50   center. I gave, I gave him like that same, that same advice.

00:50:54   Yeah. I don't know why the wifi is there. Honestly. I,

00:50:57   I'm a little baffled by that too. Cause I don't want to see it. You know,

00:51:00   I wonder, I don't remember, maybe someone knows,

00:51:03   but maybe when they add a control center,

00:51:05   like wifi was still graduated outside of it.

00:51:08   And so it was just like hung out there forever. I don't know. Yeah.

00:51:11   I don't look at it. Yeah.

00:51:13   The only one I would maybe suggest graduating out of bartender is the time

00:51:18   machine icon. And not just because, you know, you, you,

00:51:20   you had that recent issue,

00:51:22   but I at least want to know what the state of that disc is doing.

00:51:26   Like am I backed up? Has it been quietly failing in the background? Um,

00:51:31   I guess maybe that's a little less important cause you're using a desktop and

00:51:34   now I'm a laptop as a desktop person. So it feels a little more important to me,

00:51:38   but I'm just thinking you've got 27 inches of space there.

00:51:42   Maybe time machine deserves to be, to be out of the bartender prison.

00:51:47   All right. I'm going to break it out. Okay. Just for you. Good.

00:51:52   I appreciate that. Um,

00:51:53   I'm very surprised when I saw these images for the first time last night and

00:51:57   then talking through them today. Uh,

00:51:59   I'm very like happily surprised how minimal your setup is.

00:52:02   I've got a bajillion more menu bar items than you do.

00:52:05   I also, I don't expect like Jason would have a bunch,

00:52:07   but it's just way smaller than anybody else that I've seen, including me.

00:52:12   So it was just a surprise to see so few doc items and so few menu bar items.

00:52:17   Yeah. 100%. But I don't know.

00:52:21   I think it's good to keep it simple. I'm just trying to keep it simple.

00:52:23   I don't want noise in my face if I can avoid it. Yeah.

00:52:27   You're living that, that minimal Mac, you know, lifestyle. I guess so.

00:52:31   I'm just really Zen. You know, what's really minimal is my task manager.

00:52:36   It's super. Well, how would you know? There could be loads of stuff in there.

00:52:41   You just don't know if it's full of stuff. It's the opposite.

00:52:44   To do this is very angry with you. If you open it, it starts screaming,

00:52:47   but like you don't know. Could you keep it closed? Yeah.

00:52:50   And I know that it's out of the scope for today, but generally just before I go,

00:52:54   I would like to know sort of your sort of the relationship between the Mac

00:52:59   studio and the Mac book air.

00:53:01   Do you try to keep them where like the doc is the same on both of them and the

00:53:05   menu bars, the same on both of them? Do you let them lead their separate lives?

00:53:08   How do you approach that?

00:53:09   I wouldn't say I let's say I don't open up the Mac book air and like try to

00:53:14   compare it and make it match, but they are both, um,

00:53:20   having the same philosophy applied to them.

00:53:22   So they generally do more or less match. Um, you know,

00:53:26   wifi is certainly visible on the Mac book air, right. And battery,

00:53:30   like things that matter on a laptop. Um,

00:53:33   and I'm using it in a little bit of a different context,

00:53:35   but mostly it's the same stuff. And that's just, uh, well,

00:53:39   you know, this living the two computer life. When you do that,

00:53:42   there's just nothing more frustrating than going on the second computer and

00:53:45   realizing that all this stuff that you rely on on the first computer isn't

00:53:48   there, isn't working, doesn't do that.

00:53:50   So I try to make it so that it, um, is more or less in sync.

00:53:54   Um, and if I'm,

00:53:56   if I end up having studio B and I have literally two different places that I'm

00:54:01   working back and forth, it's going to become even more important that that

00:54:05   computer, which will presumably be the Mac book air back there,

00:54:08   will be more or less doing the same thing as the Mac studio is so that I don't,

00:54:12   you know, the, I don't want it to be, to be jarring, right?

00:54:16   I want to be able to reach for a tool and know that it's there, um,

00:54:20   whether or not it's on computer, you know,

00:54:23   desktop computer or a laptop computer, if I can avoid it. Yeah.

00:54:26   That's really been one thing I've enjoyed about going to just a Mac book pro

00:54:31   because I've been a two Mac person my entire independent career.

00:54:35   And even before that, and it is nice, like, okay, I made this change.

00:54:40   And I just know it's always at my computer because I only have one,

00:54:43   like there is something nice about that.

00:54:46   And I do want to talk to you as you move closer to the studio B lifestyle,

00:54:50   like, you know, how, how that works out for you. So maybe we can,

00:54:53   we can follow up, uh, at a later time. Right.

00:54:56   If upgrade ends are hearing this and like, what is it?

00:54:58   Let's talk about studio B. Uh, you should get upgrade plus go to get upgrade.

00:55:02   Plus you'll get the info over the last two episodes about what studio B is.

00:55:06   Short version is I'm, I'm, I'm thinking of setting up a,

00:55:09   a second desk in the house, which has heating, uh,

00:55:12   for when I'm very cold in the winter, cause there's no heat or insulation out here.

00:55:16   So that's the short version.

00:55:17   So I'm thinking about doing that and I've been detailing it in upgrade plus.

00:55:21   Yes.

00:55:22   Steven Hackett. Thank you very much for joining us. Uh,

00:55:25   where can people find you on the internet?

00:55:27   The most important URL for me right now is stju.org/relay.

00:55:32   I love that. So you can find a picture of Steven like he is there.

00:55:34   Yeah. You've had a picture of me there. Uh,

00:55:37   I write over at five fill pixels and I host a couple of shows here on relay each

00:55:41   week. Probably the most pertinent one to that,

00:55:44   to discussion we've had today would be a Mac power users.

00:55:49   Although this did originate on connected. So, you know, go wild.

00:55:54   Yeah. I'm a whole person, Mike.

00:55:56   You can't slice me up into my individual podcasts.

00:55:58   I can sure as hell try.

00:55:59   Thank you for joining us, Steven Hackett.

00:56:04   Bye y'all.

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00:57:51   Good to have Steven here. It was great.

00:57:54   Before we, before we move on to a very late follow-up. Okay.

00:57:58   I wanted to just have a little notes for us now that Steven has Mac power

00:58:03   users. Steven has come and gone. Yep. Um,

00:58:05   going to have to have a talk about task managers again at some point that's going

00:58:09   to need to happen. I think so because you dropped that one on me today.

00:58:12   You asked me about to do it and I literally was like,

00:58:15   did I use to do list at some point? It's been so long that if you had made me,

00:58:19   well, and I have a theory here about part partly about that is that there's to do

00:58:23   list integration and fantastic Cal.

00:58:25   So it just allowed me to have things in my calendar again.

00:58:27   Why did you do that? I don't mean you should have done that. Why did you do that?

00:58:32   Okay. So we'll talk about that some more.

00:58:34   And I also want to talk to you about about time tracking at some point.

00:58:37   Similarly,

00:58:37   because I'm intrigued by the growth and change in time tracking

00:58:42   tools. And that, that might be a thing that I might want to try,

00:58:46   but you know, my philosophy on this,

00:58:47   a lot of the reason that I don't do this sort of thing,

00:58:49   it's that minimal thing again, I guess I'm a minimalist and realize it.

00:58:52   No, I'm a minimalist. Okay. Well, I mean, under, but under is very little. Um,

00:58:59   also this is when I was coming home from a trip and all that. Anyway,

00:59:02   uh, because what my,

00:59:04   my idea is I don't want to spend time using a to do manager or a,

00:59:09   or a time tracker because it's just time I'm spending. It's meta time, right?

00:59:13   Instead of it being doing the job, it's,

00:59:15   it's time spent tracking the things that are about the job,

00:59:18   which is not doing the job. And I'm very focused on just doing,

00:59:21   I'd rather just do the work instead of do the thing,

00:59:24   do work on tracking the work. I'd rather just do the work.

00:59:27   And I know that there is, you know, there's benefits, but I,

00:59:32   I sometimes fail to see them. So it's, I think that would be a good subject for,

00:59:36   not now that there's not anything on our agenda for the next, Oh, wait a second.

00:59:40   The iPhone's coming out.

00:59:41   Do you reckon we're going to find out the event date this week? Yeah. Yeah.

00:59:46   Probably. Right. Cause if they're going to bring meteor in two weeks.

00:59:49   I suspect our next episode will be the draft. Yeah, I think you're right.

00:59:52   If it's not, then maybe we'll talk about it next time.

00:59:56   Otherwise we'll just have to file that away for later in the fall when things

01:00:00   are quiet to do a little sort of Mike and Jason tech, uh,

01:00:03   organization audit, something like that. I just, I think that's interesting.

01:00:08   By the way, he's been around, uh,

01:00:10   David sparks way too long because he didn't even comment on the stream deck.

01:00:14   He's like, he's got bigger fish to fry with stream decks.

01:00:17   He just knows that as two XL stream decks, two XL stream decks,

01:00:21   he's like going to be able to play the piano on the stream deck pretty soon.

01:00:26   Jason. I actually think he has a third one.

01:00:27   I think he has the one with the knobs. Yeah, I think you're right.

01:00:30   I think he also has the pedal. I think I did. Uh, I'll tell you,

01:00:35   I haven't told you this. So I was in Arizona last week. I brought,

01:00:38   so I bought that second stream deck. I brought it with me. Oh, good.

01:00:41   And it was pretty awesome. I was able to do downstream last week and I,

01:00:44   it was really nice to just have the same little buttons that I normally do

01:00:49   when I'm recording and press the same keys and have it all just be the same.

01:00:52   It was really nice to be able to do that. That is really nice. So that was a,

01:00:56   that was a good thing. Anyway, there's some post post Steven notes. Yeah.

01:01:00   I like that. It's like a little post show. Yeah. For Steven, for Steven,

01:01:04   but he's not here. So that's good. Don't let him, don't let him hear it.

01:01:07   Should we do some followup? I have one piece of followup for you.

01:01:11   And I have a rumor, I have a rumor round up too. We're not,

01:01:13   we're not going to wish you all of the, the, the con the convention around here.

01:01:16   Uh,

01:01:17   the information is reporting that Amazon and Disney are in early talks about a

01:01:22   partnership over ESPN. This is a quote from the information,

01:01:25   the tech giant could offer the service through one of its streaming offerings,

01:01:29   helping to expand its distribution while possibly also taking a minority stake in

01:01:33   ESPN.

01:01:34   I don't understand this. Um, like it's a good partner.

01:01:37   I think we said all along,

01:01:40   Disney is looking for deep pocketed partners,

01:01:42   whether they're tech giants or leagues. Uh, Amazon has been, has a,

01:01:47   they have an NFL deal, right? Like they're interested in sports stuff.

01:01:49   What I don't understand is the, um, nature of this deal. And I,

01:01:54   I only have read the summaries cause I do not pay for the information,

01:01:58   but it is like Disney doesn't need help streaming.

01:02:04   So is it that that they would,

01:02:08   maybe Amazon would pay to incorporate ESPN into,

01:02:13   uh, you know, is it just a channel, a prime channel?

01:02:17   That should just be something ESPN wants to do. Like, it doesn't make any sense.

01:02:21   Another thought I had is what if there's a prime video tier for sports that

01:02:25   includes a bunch of stuff and that they would integrate that in.

01:02:29   So it's basically like giving them some more reach,

01:02:33   getting ESPN some more reach,

01:02:35   having Amazon commit to something like that or do they roll it into

01:02:40   prime and you can, it's also available separately,

01:02:42   but they will write a check to Disney for it being in prime,

01:02:46   just in prime. Uh, is that right? You know,

01:02:50   cause then Disney is going to lose. If you do that, you're losing,

01:02:52   charging them, presumably more,

01:02:54   making more money on the outside versus having it be inside on prime. But again,

01:02:58   the key thing with tech tech companies working with entertainment companies is

01:03:03   that the tech companies priorities are different and their value,

01:03:06   how they value things is different.

01:03:08   So it's possible that it's more valuable to Amazon, uh,

01:03:12   to pay ESPN and Disney than it is for ESPN and Disney out there on its own.

01:03:19   And that this is a way that, that helps make that transition work. I don't,

01:03:23   I don't know. It's, it's they look, Disney wants cash, right? They need cash.

01:03:28   They need cash because they want to show investors that they're, um,

01:03:31   that they're doing better.

01:03:32   And they also are going to have a big bill if they buy out, um,

01:03:35   NBC universal's, um, portion of Hulu.

01:03:39   So there's reasons for Bob Iger to be searching for those strategic partners.

01:03:44   And maybe that's what this is,

01:03:46   but I would be interested to see what the details of a, of a deal like this would

01:03:50   be and why they would benefit Disney. Um,

01:03:52   I don't think they're reporting that like they're going to take ESPN over the

01:03:56   top, but it's just on Amazon or something.

01:03:58   I don't think that's what this is saying,

01:04:00   but that Amazon would definitely be a strategic partner that would market and

01:04:04   support, uh, this product maybe separately.

01:04:07   If that's the case though, like I assume Apple would do that too.

01:04:11   Apple would want to do like a channels thing. Yeah.

01:04:14   And do you need to invest in, do you need to become a minority investor in ESPN,

01:04:18   in order to be a channels partner for ESPN? I don't, I don't know.

01:04:22   Maybe that's what they're saying though. Maybe.

01:04:24   Which would be weird, but like it's ESPN and it's Disney.

01:04:28   So maybe they just get to set the terms and this is the terms would be strange,

01:04:33   but if you want it, I don't know. Weird. I don't know.

01:04:37   Room around uptime, Jason Snell. All right, let's do it. Saddling up a little late.

01:04:42   Yeah, it's a little late in the show, but we're all over the place today.

01:04:45   It's fun. The summer of fun. You know what I mean? Summer of fun. That's it.

01:04:48   Nine to five Mac is reporting via their own sources that there could be a delay

01:04:52   on the pro max slash ultra, whatever they call it,

01:04:54   phone this year of at least three to four weeks from the all the other models

01:04:59   due to an issue providing the new camera sensors in the volume that's needed from

01:05:04   Sony.

01:05:05   That would not be unprecedented to have them do that thing where they're like,

01:05:10   Oh, and the iPhone 15 is available in two weeks and the iPhone 15 pro will be

01:05:15   available next month or later this fall or something like that.

01:05:20   They've done that before, but you know, don't get,

01:05:23   I guess don't get your hopes up. And also I read this and I think, Oh man,

01:05:26   just being totally soul centered for a moment. It's like, Oh man,

01:05:31   it means I got to do two separate iPhone reviews.

01:05:33   So this is the thing,

01:05:35   like even though it adds frustration and complication for everybody,

01:05:39   including Apple and, but like at the same time,

01:05:42   I bet there's some kind of like when there's two embargoes,

01:05:46   it's rolling thunder. I absolutely agree. I think that there is, I mean,

01:05:49   I'm sure they'd want it out sooner just to sell it sooner,

01:05:51   but there is absolutely benefit in, you got an announcement,

01:05:56   then you got a wave of reviews of part a,

01:05:59   and then later you got a wave of reviews of part B. It's like, Oh,

01:06:02   that phone was announced a month ago. Well, here's a reminder.

01:06:04   Now here is the version of shipping, right? Like there, there are,

01:06:09   you can make lemonade out of those lemons, I guess is what I'm saying.

01:06:12   And Jason, the colors are giveth, the colors are taketh away.

01:06:17   So images have been swirling online of

01:06:21   colorful braided USB-C to lightning cables that could be

01:06:26   color matched and included with the iPhone 15.

01:06:29   So there are a bunch of colors here, um, that are being,

01:06:32   they're being shared from people who have had access to them.

01:06:35   I'm intrigued about these, but I'm also kind of wondering like,

01:06:38   are these just the iMac colors from like the track pads and stuff,

01:06:42   but I'm not entirely sure people were saying that they're longer and relate into

01:06:47   the iPhone.

01:06:48   This is going along with every rumor website that I'm subscribed to is like

01:06:53   reporting like three stories a day on colors right now. Um,

01:06:56   which is great for the colors are, I suppose, uh,

01:06:59   there are rumors swirling about the iPhone 15 lineup of colors.

01:07:03   So there'll be black and white,

01:07:04   and there may also be some combination of yellow, blue, green,

01:07:09   and potentially the return of coral. I've also seen purple noted.

01:07:13   So there are lots of options. Nobody really knows what they are.

01:07:16   The big story for me though,

01:07:17   I think is an absolute heartbreak rumor that suggests that the pro phones

01:07:22   will come in silver, space, black, dark blue, and Titan gray,

01:07:26   getting rid of gold, Jason, what are they doing over there?

01:07:31   I need to have a meeting with the colors.

01:07:33   Our colors are you see me in my office in the morning. Terrible.

01:07:37   What are they doing? They get away. They're going to have silver,

01:07:39   which will be gray and then they're adding gray. I don't know, man.

01:07:43   I don't know about this.

01:07:44   I feel for you,

01:07:45   but also doesn't it sound absolutely modern Apple that they would do an iPhone

01:07:50   pro in four colors, three of which are essentially not a color.

01:07:54   No, I mean a hundred percent like they can have four colors.

01:07:57   One of them is a color.

01:07:58   Let me, let me tell you what our colors are. Uh, colors are, uh, well,

01:08:03   we have a silver, which is white, right? Yeah. Okay. And then,

01:08:07   and then right below that, there'll be a gray, which is sort of a darker silver.

01:08:11   And then there's a black, which is sort of a darker gray. And then we, but don't worry,

01:08:16   don't worry. We have another color for you. It's,

01:08:19   it's a dark navy blue. It's so dark that it,

01:08:24   that it looks like the black one,

01:08:26   but if you put it in a very bright light and tilt it at an angle,

01:08:32   you can sort of tell that it's blue and those are our new colors. Get excited.

01:08:36   Frustrated about it. But what I'll get to do though,

01:08:39   which is what I did now and I like to do it is if I go ultra and they have Titan

01:08:44   gray, which will probably be similar to the ultra,

01:08:46   I can maybe still have a matching watch and phone and they'll just be titanium

01:08:50   color, which is less exciting.

01:08:51   What I'm excited about is,

01:08:52   is the prospect that they might bring back coral because that was my favorite

01:08:56   10 R sun color. It's really great. It's like a bright orangey. Um,

01:09:01   it's pinky orange. It's great. I love that coral 10 R.

01:09:06   So that would be a cool phone to have.

01:09:07   And the Sheriff of Rumorville,

01:09:11   Mark Gurman is reporting on Apple's plan to overhaul the iPad pro

01:09:17   next year.

01:09:17   So Mark is saying this is planned to be the first major change of the iPad since

01:09:22   the 2018 model was introduced as when they did that new design and they've

01:09:26   iterated on it since, and this would be the big overhaul. Um,

01:09:29   and it will feature an M three chip and OLED display and there will be 11 and

01:09:34   13 inch models. So maybe finally,

01:09:36   they're just going to call it the 13 inch iPad rather than 12.9 inch iPad and a

01:09:41   revamped magic keyboard quote.

01:09:43   The new accessory makes the iPad pro look even more like a laptop than the

01:09:48   current setup and adds a larger track pad. Are they going to,

01:09:51   they're going to get rid of the cantilever, right? How? I don't know.

01:09:56   How that's, that's the question, right?

01:09:58   So the beauty of Apple's accessories is that they make the iPad,

01:10:03   right? This is the, this is, I think people don't talk about this enough,

01:10:08   but like all other accessory makers must adapt to whatever the iPad hardware is.

01:10:13   Apple, if it has an idea for an accessory,

01:10:16   it can make the iPad so that it works with that accessory, right?

01:10:20   It's part of the design upfront is this is what we want over here.

01:10:26   So we're going to make this little thing over here so that they work together.

01:10:29   But my question about getting rid of or redesigning the keyboard to be more like

01:10:35   a laptop is weight, right?

01:10:38   The reason that it's a cantilever is because they need to push the weight of the

01:10:43   iPad forward. So the whole thing doesn't tip over backward.

01:10:47   How do you make something look like a laptop,

01:10:50   but have it not have the cantilever, right? Like how do you, cause that's,

01:10:55   that's what it looks like a laptop is. But like what, what is that?

01:10:59   My fear is that the answer is a kickstand

01:11:03   and kickstands are terrible. Well, here's what I fear.

01:11:09   That's my fear. Bridge made it work.

01:11:11   Bridge made it work and what they did was they had a weighted keyboard and then

01:11:15   they had like a like clips, clips that clipped around the iPad.

01:11:19   So that would be how you'd have to do it.

01:11:21   And clearly Apple does not mind about weight because like part of the way the

01:11:26   magic keyboard folio thing, what magic keyboard works is that it's heavier,

01:11:31   right? Yeah. Yeah. So, so you,

01:11:33   you could do it like bridge where you have something essentially like the bridge

01:11:36   thing where it's,

01:11:36   it's got enough weight in the front of the keyboard that it's going to, um,

01:11:41   keep it from tipping over backward and you would create a more elegant connector

01:11:47   than the, you know, clips that bridge put on its keyboard so that you could just

01:11:52   kind of shove an iPad into the clips and it would work. But you're right.

01:11:56   In terms of physics,

01:11:57   it absolutely did work and you could use it as a laptop that way.

01:12:01   You just had to have a heavy case and I, I, Apple is, you're right.

01:12:05   Not afraid of having a heavy case. Like that's not the point.

01:12:08   The point is that the iPad is going to be on the light side and then the case,

01:12:13   it can be as heavy as it needs to be.

01:12:15   I would be disappointed personally if they got rid of the cantilever for a kickstand

01:12:20   for realistically just to make the trackpad bigger.

01:12:24   Like that would be disappointing to me. Terrible trade off.

01:12:27   So I don't think they're going to do it.

01:12:29   What I'll say is nobody expected the cantilever design,

01:12:34   so I'm still going to leave the ball in their court for like,

01:12:37   there's a thing I haven't even imagined. That's where,

01:12:40   that is realistically where I am sitting on this room of like they're going to

01:12:44   do something that makes it like that you actually have more space on the keyboard

01:12:48   section, right?

01:12:49   So like less of it is unused and it's some kind of design that I've,

01:12:52   I've not seen before.

01:12:54   It could be as simple as that. It's a,

01:12:57   still a magnetic attach, but it's further back.

01:13:01   It's basically not cantilevered. And what they've done is they've just made the,

01:13:05   the other part of the keyboard case thicker and heavier, right? That,

01:13:09   that could be it, which it would be instead of using clips or anything like that,

01:13:13   it's still using a magnet to hold it.

01:13:16   And it's still got the connection between them. If you did that,

01:13:20   there's some interesting options you could do too, right?

01:13:22   You could make that keyboard have a battery in it so that you could actually say

01:13:26   when your iPad is in this, uh, keyboard case,

01:13:31   it has 24 hour battery life or something like that. Right.

01:13:34   They could do that if they wanted to. Yeah. Um,

01:13:37   maybe they're going to put a Vacer home on it, you know, just so you almost,

01:13:41   I mean, just, yeah, just go wherever you want and then just screw it,

01:13:45   screw it onto whatever surface is nearby floating right in front of you. Easy peasy.

01:13:49   I have, I have a magnetic arm with a Vacer mount.

01:13:54   It's not a Maser mount.

01:13:55   I have a magnetic arm for an iPad with a little thing that you screw into a,

01:13:59   a clamp into a surface so that it can float above anything.

01:14:03   It's awesome actually. Lovely. Yeah.

01:14:05   And then you can put whatever you want below it. It doesn't matter.

01:14:10   All right, let's finish out today's episode with some ask upgrade questions.

01:14:12   Sriram asks, Sriram asks,

01:14:19   why are so many developers no longer submitting the latest updates to their Mac OS

01:14:24   apps via the Mac app store are going directly instead?

01:14:27   One example being 1Password,

01:14:29   their version 8 was distributed directly and only from their website.

01:14:32   Because they can,

01:14:34   and then they have complete control over the whole thing and they don't have to

01:14:37   go through Apple's approvals and they don't have to follow Apple's rules. And it,

01:14:41   uh, it's amazing that there are, it's, it, yeah, it,

01:14:44   it's amazing that there are apps in the Mac app store, quite frankly.

01:14:47   And if you've got a big brand and you don't need to be like relying on the

01:14:52   presence,

01:14:52   like the reason you go in the Mac app store is because there's some people

01:14:55   theoretically who use the Mac app store to search for software because they're so

01:14:59   trained from iOS, just use the app store to search for software.

01:15:03   And if you can find them there, uh, that,

01:15:06   so that's like number one.

01:15:07   I think also it's like if you don't want to deal with,

01:15:10   and there are many developers like this,

01:15:12   you do not want to deal with the payment stuff. You do not want to deal with.

01:15:15   That's number two. Yeah, that's number two.

01:15:17   John Syracuse could set up his own payment system for his little apps, right?

01:15:21   And he's like, yeah, I'm just going to put them in Mac app store, right?

01:15:23   They get approved, Apple handles the transactions. So those are reasons to do it.

01:15:27   But if you're an established brand, uh, like there,

01:15:32   it's just pain to be in the Mac app store and you don't need, you know,

01:15:35   you're probably not getting much benefit out of it. So that's why,

01:15:38   that's the answer. And, um,

01:15:41   Apple has at times tried to make it easier to be in the Mac app store, um,

01:15:45   for developers.

01:15:46   I think that it will always be this way unless Apple went to the point of like,

01:15:51   what didn't Microsoft at some point,

01:15:53   essentially turn their app store into a optionally just being a catalog where

01:15:57   you could be in the store and, and, and,

01:16:00   and you could be in the store and I think you could buy things through the

01:16:03   store, but for some stuff you could literally just,

01:16:05   you find the app and then you click and go to the website where you'd buy the

01:16:10   app. And, and they just said, it's a catalog now, essentially.

01:16:14   I don't think Apple will ever do that.

01:16:16   So we're going to end up with it being kind of bifurcated like it is.

01:16:20   I mean, we can talk to this a little bit,

01:16:22   but when it comes to like Apple podcast subscriptions, right,

01:16:25   but like we don't do that for this show and you don't do it for the

01:16:29   incomparable and part of it is because one,

01:16:33   we had an existing business of subscriptions that lasted before.

01:16:37   So that was one to like the Apple podcast is not our largest audience base.

01:16:42   It's large, but not largest. It's not dominant.

01:16:45   There's a lot of mainstream shows would maybe be dominant or I don't know,

01:16:49   maybe it's changing with Spotify these days. In some cases it's becoming closer.

01:16:53   Um, they don't allow for us to, um,

01:16:57   have all of the features we would want.

01:16:59   It's a podcast only subscription. Yeah. Uh, so we can't,

01:17:03   we can't offer a discord or whatever. Like you can't do it.

01:17:07   You just get the podcast. So there's lots of reasons that we look at it.

01:17:10   Like they used to be more things like you used to be that you'd have to go to

01:17:15   their system and update and they now change that. Uh,

01:17:18   they also recently added in a bunch of new services to do that.

01:17:23   I think it's called like direct delivery.

01:17:26   Delegated delivery is the term that they use.

01:17:28   Like a lot of it is getting better and they're also like,

01:17:30   I just saw this thing recently where they have this new like statistics

01:17:33   interface, which was really nice. But the biggest thing for me,

01:17:36   which I think is for a lot of other people,

01:17:38   which is realistically our audience we have built and it's our audience.

01:17:42   And if we're going to ask people to pay us, I would like a hundred percent of

01:17:46   that money, not 70% of that money because we've done the work.

01:17:50   Yeah, exactly. And that we, and those, that's our audience and not Apple's.

01:17:54   Right. We're not the goal of being like, well yeah, you're paying,

01:17:56   but you're really paying Apple and then Apple's paying us.

01:17:59   And then you're one of the billion subscriptions that Apple can report on its

01:18:03   quarterly results. But that like,

01:18:05   and I know that developers feel that way to bring it back to the Mac app store.

01:18:08   I know that developers feel that way too, that they, they,

01:18:11   they actually prefer to be in direct contact with their customers and not have

01:18:16   Apple as an intermediary, which is what happens in the app store.

01:18:19   But this is like one of these things where like, uh,

01:18:22   indie developers and maybe different to more mainstream developers in the same

01:18:26   way that indie podcasters, if you call this,

01:18:29   it's like small to medium sized podcasters are different to large

01:18:34   podcasts. Right. So it,

01:18:37   I think it's a similar kind of overlap that there are certain types of apps where

01:18:41   like they've got their audience their own way and they want to keep it that way.

01:18:44   And they're also willing to do the work. Like we're willing to do the work,

01:18:48   it's work. Um, but we're willing to do it and great.

01:18:52   You know,

01:18:55   Arjan asks, how do I correctly pronounce the name of the new Mac OS?

01:19:00   Sonoma. Okay. Is that like the way you're saying,

01:19:05   like phonetically is like S A N O M A? Ah, I mean, that's how I say it.

01:19:10   Sonoma. Not Sonoma. It's softer. It's a Sonoma. Sonoma. Sonoma. Sonoma.

01:19:25   Sonoma. Not Sonoma. I mean, I guess you could say Sonoma if you overpronounce it,

01:19:30   but we don't overpronounce it here in California. We say Sonoma.

01:19:34   It's like if something's like Sonoma, it's like it's so no,

01:19:40   no, no. Think about like if it was in Klingon, it would be S apostrophe,

01:19:44   you know, M a so that doesn't help me. Maybe it helps Arjan. I don't know.

01:19:48   Robert asks,

01:19:50   as Apple works to eliminate the iPhone and iPad bezels at what point will this

01:19:55   impact or prevent casemakers from making cases that snap on?

01:19:59   Is it a riddle? I don't, I don't know. I mean,

01:20:04   I think that Apple is aware that people want cases and Apple makes cases,

01:20:09   but Apple at some point,

01:20:12   if it eliminates a class of cases, like, uh,

01:20:15   like things that snap on that are actually like gripping on the, on the,

01:20:20   around to the front. And if that obscures the front,

01:20:23   they will have to just adapt to whatever, um, whatever Apple,

01:20:27   Apple will have a solution, right?

01:20:29   Cause they designed the hardware and the accessories together.

01:20:31   I know what it's going to be. Magnets. Magnets. How do they work?

01:20:37   The case will just be connected with magnets and it won't cover the front of the

01:20:40   screen anymore. It would just like,

01:20:41   you'll put your phone in and it would just go around the sides and it will,

01:20:45   it won't actually go around the edge of the screen and casemakers that don't want

01:20:49   to make their phones, their cases that way. Well, I'm sorry.

01:20:51   There'll be no more cases for you. Like, yeah.

01:20:53   Cause Apple decides that yeah.

01:20:55   And the case industry will just follow what Apple does the same way as they do

01:20:59   every single time. Right? Like Apple introduces MagSafe.

01:21:02   Now all the cases have magnets in them. Right.

01:21:05   Because like that's what you need to do. By the way, I've said this before,

01:21:10   I'll say it again. That seems like the worst industry to be in phone cases.

01:21:14   Like the absolute, like, you know, me and gray, we like making our products,

01:21:19   right? And we're wondering what other things could we make in the future?

01:21:22   We have like a, an agreement between each other.

01:21:25   We will never get into phone cases because it just seems like the worst business

01:21:30   to be in.

01:21:31   Yeah. And you have to churn it every year too on top of everything else. Right.

01:21:34   And it's dog eat dog out there. And, or be ready to,

01:21:37   like you don't even know if you need to turn it every year. Right. Like it's,

01:21:40   I don't understand how case companies make money because it just seems like such

01:21:45   an impossibly difficult business to manage.

01:21:49   Yeah. They make it with, it's with great difficulty. Yeah.

01:21:54   Yeah. Because the answer is not a great business to be in.

01:21:57   Nightmare. Like all of these people, Tim Cook would probably appreciate them.

01:22:01   You know what I mean? Right. Like I feel like,

01:22:03   I feel like Tim Cook would have some kind of empathy for companies making phone

01:22:07   cases. Cause it's like, they also have to be logistically nimble. Yeah.

01:22:11   If you would like to send in a question of your own for us to answer in a future

01:22:16   episode,

01:22:17   just go to upgrade feedback.com and you can send in your own ask upgrade

01:22:22   question. Before I wrap up today, I want to remind you again,

01:22:25   go to stj.org/relay.

01:22:28   We are raising money for St Jude Children's Research Hospital throughout all of

01:22:32   September. We're going to be, you're going to be hearing about it a lot on all of

01:22:36   our shows. Please go and donate stj.org/relay.

01:22:40   It will mean a lot to us and it will mean a lot to fighting childhood cancer.

01:22:44   If you would like to send us your feedback,

01:22:46   follow up and questions for future episodes, go to upgrade feedback.com.

01:22:51   As Jason mentioned, we might be drafting next week.

01:22:55   So if Apple invites go out this week,

01:22:58   you see that on your social networks, on your RSS feeds,

01:23:01   then you can rest assured that next Monday's episode will be the September event

01:23:06   draft.

01:23:07   And that will be the final episode of the Summer of Fun this year. Yeah.

01:23:12   I think, I think it almost certainly has to be whether the invites go out or not.

01:23:16   I think we're going to have to assume that the draft is next week,

01:23:21   right? Because it seems unlikely that it,

01:23:23   that an Apple event would be later than two weeks from now. Who could know?

01:23:27   We'll find out. Who could know? We'll find out.

01:23:31   You can check out Jason's work over at sixcolors.com and you can hear his shows

01:23:35   over at the incomparable.com and here on Relay FM.

01:23:37   You can listen to my podcasts here on Relay FM and check out my work,

01:23:41   cortexbrand.com. We're both on Mastodon. Jason is @jasonell on zeppelin.flights.

01:23:46   I am @imike, I M Y K E on mike.social.

01:23:50   The show is on Mastodon as well. We are upgrade@relayfm.social.

01:23:54   You can watch video clips of the show there and also on TikTok and Instagram

01:23:58   where we are @upgraderelay. We're also on threads. I'm @imike, Jason is @jasonell.

01:24:03   Thank you to our members who support us with Upgrade Plus.

01:24:06   Thank you to our sponsors for supporting us this week. That is Ladder and Fitblood.

01:24:09   Thank you to Stephen Hackett for lending his time on this week's episode.

01:24:13   And most of all, thank you for listening. Until next time,

01:24:16   say goodbye Jason Snow.

01:24:17   Goodbye everybody.

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