468: I Love Clock


00:00:00   [MUSIC]

00:00:08   >> From Real FM, this is Connected, Episode 468.

00:00:11   Today's show is brought to you by our sponsors,

00:00:13   Indeed, Electric, and Factor.

00:00:15   I'm Federico Vittucci and I'm joined today, as always,

00:00:18   well, by two hosts who are together in person.

00:00:23   Steven and Mike are together. Are you holding hands?

00:00:26   >> We can high-five. I wanted to hold hands,

00:00:29   but he wouldn't have it.

00:00:29   >> Okay. Hi.

00:00:31   >> So you just, and I think it's fine to buck tradition the way

00:00:34   that you just did because we are in the person,

00:00:36   so I figure you could introduce us both at the same time.

00:00:38   >> You are together, so that's the exception to the rule.

00:00:41   I get to introduce you both at the same time.

00:00:44   Because otherwise, it will be awkward what I would just

00:00:45   introduce Steven and you would just sit silently next to him?

00:00:50   >> Yeah.

00:00:50   >> No.

00:00:51   >> Yeah. I do as I'm told.

00:00:53   There's a lot of old computers here, as you can imagine.

00:00:55   >> Well, are they more than the last time you were there?

00:00:58   >> I think so. It looks like more.

00:01:01   >> Steven, are there more old computers?

00:01:03   >> I don't have to answer that.

00:01:04   >> Come on.

00:01:05   >> There's a lot. There's so many stacks now.

00:01:08   >> There's a few more. You haven't even seen the attic.

00:01:10   >> I don't want to.

00:01:11   >> The attic situation is bad.

00:01:12   >> Why? Do you still have them in the house?

00:01:15   Why do you still have them in there?

00:01:16   >> They're in the attic. They're not in the house house.

00:01:17   >> No, but you have all of this.

00:01:19   >> I know.

00:01:20   >> I cannot believe.

00:01:22   >> I need more shelves.

00:01:22   >> I cannot believe that you built this and

00:01:25   your loving wife still allows for there to be Max in the house.

00:01:29   I cannot believe that that has happened.

00:01:31   >> Well, she just doesn't go in that part of the attic.

00:01:33   >> But I'm just still surprised.

00:01:35   It felt like that's what this was supposed to be.

00:01:37   >> Well, I want to put some more shelves in somewhere

00:01:39   and then I can get everything out of there.

00:01:40   >> There's no space for shelves.

00:01:41   You should have put an attic in this studio.

00:01:44   >> It's pretty tall in here.

00:01:45   >> Yeah, you could do that.

00:01:46   You could do that.

00:01:47   >> Federico, we're going to talk about your review this week.

00:01:52   But first, let's maybe touch base, check in,

00:01:56   circle around on what we ordered and how that process went.

00:02:00   I saw a lot of people in Macedon had trouble with the Apple Store app.

00:02:04   I did too. In fact, I ordered our phones on the Internet,

00:02:07   like in a web browser because the app would not come up for me.

00:02:10   How did it go for you?

00:02:11   >> It was perfect. Within four minutes,

00:02:15   I got it done before everything crashed.

00:02:17   I think I just hit the CDN lottery this time around.

00:02:21   >> Yeah, you did.

00:02:23   >> I obviously had the usual setup with

00:02:25   multiple devices opened on different networks.

00:02:28   We talked about this strategy years ago.

00:02:30   Still holds true, obviously, still worked.

00:02:32   This time, I got lucky on the iPad with the app instead of Safari.

00:02:38   Within four minutes and then it went down and it wouldn't

00:02:41   recover for another 20, 25 minutes.

00:02:44   I felt pretty lucky there.

00:02:46   >> Yeah. I was just wanting to peek at things because

00:02:51   Steven had ordered my phone and his phone together.

00:02:55   I opened the app at half past the hour in the UK and it wasn't loading.

00:03:01   >> Jeez.

00:03:02   >> I just don't understand.

00:03:05   I know it's an incredibly hard job,

00:03:08   but it is one that they do at least once a year.

00:03:11   It's still a surprise to me that it's

00:03:14   so rickety still.

00:03:18   >> There's a lot of web objects in there.

00:03:20   I don't know if that's true anymore or not.

00:03:22   >> It seems like we all chose the best phone.

00:03:24   >> Obviously.

00:03:25   >> The natural titanium Pro Max is like out to

00:03:29   November in most places to try and get one of those.

00:03:32   It's very backordered, which is trendsetters.

00:03:35   >> That's right.

00:03:36   >> I actually have a question about phones that came in from Austin who said,

00:03:39   "You all mentioned that you're getting the 512 gigabyte 15 Pro Max.

00:03:43   What do you need all that space for?"

00:03:45   >> Well, I ended up with the terabyte.

00:03:47   >> Federico, do you want to hear about this?

00:03:50   How I got like-

00:03:51   >> How do you end up with one terabyte?

00:03:54   >> Here's the thing. These phones,

00:03:56   because I'm here, it's complicated for us to get phone.

00:04:01   I don't want to order a phone in the UK because I won't be able to get it.

00:04:04   We order it in Memphis.

00:04:06   It's difficult for me to do that order,

00:04:08   so Steven orders them for us.

00:04:10   When we do it this way, we have Relay FM pay for the phones.

00:04:14   We all agreed we're going to get 512 gigabyte 15 Pro Max.

00:04:18   Then Steven pops up with his one terabyte,

00:04:21   which means I paid for half of that.

00:04:24   >> So I owe you $100.

00:04:25   >> Sure. Yeah, you owe me $100.

00:04:28   I paid for half of this portrayal where he decided to go and get terabyte.

00:04:32   What do you think about that Federico? It's pretty bad, right?

00:04:35   >> I think it's very bad.

00:04:36   >> Do you want to hear my usage?

00:04:37   >> Yes.

00:04:39   >> Sure.

00:04:40   >> Photos, 584 gigabytes.

00:04:44   I keep my whole photo library on the phone.

00:04:46   >> Well, you could never have had a 512 gigabyte phone then.

00:04:48   Why was that even a consideration for you?

00:04:50   >> Well, I was thinking about do I want to live without that, but I don't.

00:04:53   47 gigabytes in messages,

00:04:55   30 gigabytes in music,

00:04:57   13 gigs in day one,

00:05:00   five gigabytes in notes.

00:05:01   >> Wow, 13 gigabytes in day one.

00:05:03   >> Then it goes from there.

00:05:04   >> There's a lot of dreams that you have written down, man.

00:05:09   >> Yes, a lot of dreams going in there.

00:05:11   >> That's right. We'll be picking our phones up the morning of the podcast-a-thon.

00:05:17   I have to get up early and go out to the Apple Store and then race downtown,

00:05:20   like all the way across the county.

00:05:21   It's going to be spectacular.

00:05:23   >> I have 340 gigabytes of 512 gigabytes used.

00:05:27   I looked at this, I think this will be the last year that I will do 512,

00:05:31   because I reckon I'll start bumping up to it.

00:05:34   I'm 168 gigabytes into photos.

00:05:36   I'm the same, I have all my photos on my device because I just like that.

00:05:40   20 gigabytes in messages,

00:05:42   14 gigabytes in music,

00:05:44   six gigabytes in overcast,

00:05:46   and then it just goes on from there.

00:05:47   What do you have, Federico?

00:05:48   >> Let me see. I think last time I checked,

00:05:52   I was at around 300.

00:05:55   Did you check the iPhone storage or the iCloud storage?

00:06:00   >> iPhone storage.

00:06:02   >> iPhone storage because I don't keep my photo library downloaded.

00:06:09   I have a one terabyte model on the 14 Pro Max and I'm only using 171 gigs.

00:06:17   >> Yeah, you might have overshot that one a little bit.

00:06:19   >> I might have. I'm not sure why I'm not keeping my photo library offline,

00:06:24   because I think I could,

00:06:26   in fact, if I go to iCloud, let's see.

00:06:30   I'm only using what for photos? Let's see.

00:06:34   Wow, this page is so bad.

00:06:37   My family is using 500 gigs of the two terabyte plan.

00:06:41   Yeah, I'm only using 200 gigabytes for iCloud photos, myself.

00:06:45   Forty-two gigabytes of iMessage, wow,

00:06:48   and seven gigabytes in iCloud Drive.

00:06:52   So as a family group,

00:06:54   we're using about half of the two terabyte plan right now.

00:06:58   I'm a little bit concerned that my iCloud photos is 151 gigabytes.

00:07:04   That doesn't make any sense because that seems like less,

00:07:07   and that's for the family.

00:07:09   I don't know what's going on there.

00:07:10   That's very concerning.

00:07:12   I'll try not to think about that anymore.

00:07:15   >> Mike, you're in Memphis.

00:07:17   It is September. September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month.

00:07:21   You want to go to stjoe.org/relay to learn more and donate.

00:07:26   But we have been raising money for St. Jude since 2019.

00:07:31   Since then, we have raised over two and a half million dollars as a community,

00:07:36   which means we've hit our first goal for 2023,

00:07:38   but we're not stopping there because St. Jude won't stop their life-saving work.

00:07:43   But we're not stopping there because St. Jude won't stop

00:07:46   their life-saving work until no child dies from cancer.

00:07:49   With your support, dear listener,

00:07:50   we'll be one step closer to that day,

00:07:52   one cure closer, one child closer.

00:07:56   It's estimated that more than 400,000 children worldwide develop

00:08:00   cancer each year and nearly half of them are never diagnosed.

00:08:05   Now in the US, more than four out of five children survive cancer,

00:08:09   including my son, he's one of the four out of five.

00:08:12   But in many developing countries around the world,

00:08:15   that number is reversed with fewer than one out of

00:08:18   five children diagnosed with cancer surviving.

00:08:21   In fact, the most significant predictor of whether a child will survive cancer or not,

00:08:25   is where that child lives.

00:08:27   That's unacceptable and it's why in March of 2018,

00:08:31   St. Jude became the first and only World Health Organization collaborating center,

00:08:36   collaborating, collaborating, clapping center,

00:08:41   colab, #colab, Center for Childhood Cancer.

00:08:46   The goal of this initiative is to raise the survival rate of

00:08:49   six common childhood cancers to 60 percent by 2030.

00:08:54   That's not that far away and so they've been hard at work.

00:08:58   In 2021, St. Jude and the World Health Organization launched

00:09:01   the global platform for access to childhood cancer medicines.

00:09:05   This aims to provide free chemotherapy medicines in the next few

00:09:10   years to as many as 120,000 children around the world with cancer.

00:09:16   Just think about that. That's a huge number of kids.

00:09:19   That is now in the pilot phase.

00:09:21   That initiative is up and running.

00:09:24   In April of this year,

00:09:25   they met with representatives in the program's first few countries to

00:09:28   figure out the details of how the process will work

00:09:31   to get medicines from ports of entry to hospitals.

00:09:34   There's a lot of logistics that go into this.

00:09:36   It's one thing to say, "Hey, we're going to treat a bunch of children."

00:09:39   But you got to figure out how to do it.

00:09:41   The people at St. Jude and the people of these partner organizations,

00:09:44   they're the best at the world at it.

00:09:45   Go to stjude.org/relay to support this important work.

00:09:51   Mike, you want to tell people about what we're going to be doing on Friday?

00:09:53   Yes. This Friday, which is September 22nd,

00:09:56   from 12 to 12 US Eastern Time,

00:09:59   12 PM to 12 AM US Eastern Time.

00:10:02   We are doing a 12-hour live stream for the kids of St. Jude

00:10:06   from the campus of St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.

00:10:09   That's starting at 9 Pacific, 11 Central, 12 Eastern.

00:10:17   That will be 5 PM British Summer Time,

00:10:21   4 PM GMT, 6 PM.

00:10:24   Is it Central European Time, Federico, that you are in?

00:10:27   Yes. Is it Summer Time though?

00:10:32   I think it's...

00:10:33   We're just going to say Rome Time.

00:10:34   6 PM Rome Time.

00:10:36   If you're not in Rome, you have to work it out.

00:10:38   There's going to be a 12-hour stream.

00:10:41   It's going to be full of shenanigans.

00:10:43   The whole event is focused around Mike versus Steven.

00:10:46   We've got a bunch of games and activities

00:10:48   that we're going to be playing throughout the day.

00:10:50   We've got some fun in-studio guests.

00:10:52   We have Jason Snell and Kathy Campbell coming in to help us out,

00:10:56   be adjudicators, referees and participants

00:10:58   of the various things that we're doing.

00:11:00   We started doing day one of our three-day run-through

00:11:05   and set-up yesterday.

00:11:06   The set is looking incredible.

00:11:08   It's going to be a fantastic time.

00:11:09   You do not want to miss this.

00:11:11   It's going to be on twitch.tv/relayfm

00:11:14   on Friday, September 22nd.

00:11:17   Please come and hang out with us.

00:11:19   So let's talk about iPhone cases.

00:11:21   Here on the table, I have a selection of three cases, Mike,

00:11:24   for you to try.

00:11:25   I have the leather case off my iPhone 14 Pro Max.

00:11:29   So it's got some use on it.

00:11:31   Oh, no, no, no, hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:11:33   Make it...

00:11:34   Shuffle them up and make it a blind test.

00:11:37   Let him touch them.

00:11:38   Okay.

00:11:39   Oh, that's good.

00:11:40   All right, close your eyes.

00:11:41   Okay.

00:11:42   Well, I can't see what you're doing anyway, but...

00:11:43   Okay, so...

00:11:45   Now I'll close my eyes, so give me one.

00:11:47   Okay, so I'm going to give you a case.

00:11:49   Okay.

00:11:50   Okay, so you've got, what is it, peak design?

00:11:56   But this is the peak design one

00:11:57   because it's got rubber on the sides

00:11:58   and a big hole in the middle.

00:12:00   Okay, so here is another case.

00:12:03   He's feeling it.

00:12:05   He's touching it. Oh, interesting.

00:12:06   Okay, I think... Interesting, okay.

00:12:08   He looks hungry.

00:12:09   Yeah.

00:12:10   Weird.

00:12:11   At first touch, I thought this might have been the leather.

00:12:15   Oh.

00:12:16   But, 'cause I ran my finger across it in one direction

00:12:21   and it was kind of smooth, but then when going back,

00:12:23   I think this is fire woven.

00:12:25   Okay, here's the last one.

00:12:26   This is actual leather.

00:12:29   Yep, you got 100%.

00:12:31   That leather case is messed up, so...

00:12:32   Yeah, it's got some age on it.

00:12:34   I will say, Federica, have you tried

00:12:36   one of the fine woven cases yet?

00:12:37   No, I don't have mine yet.

00:12:39   I don't like this.

00:12:41   Okay.

00:12:43   So this case to me feels like a high-end paper.

00:12:48   Oh, paper?

00:12:51   Yeah, I've experienced some papers with the texture,

00:12:57   which is similar to this.

00:12:59   And so I'm, I don't know,

00:13:01   I don't think that this was the right move.

00:13:06   I genuinely just think that they should have

00:13:08   either doubled down with all silicon,

00:13:11   or they should have created something more akin

00:13:15   to the Peak Design where it's like,

00:13:18   we're just gonna go all in on this being a fabric.

00:13:20   And I think that they've landed something in the middle

00:13:22   where they've tried to create this fabric case

00:13:26   that has a leather-like feel, where like,

00:13:30   Stephen, feel this, the edges and the back

00:13:32   feel like completely different materials.

00:13:33   Yeah, the edges feel like the leather-

00:13:36   They're like a rubbery kind of.

00:13:37   Yeah, like rubbery.

00:13:39   And then there's a seam in between the back and the side.

00:13:43   It feels way cheaper than what I paid for it.

00:13:45   Yeah, I think they whiffed big time on this.

00:13:46   I don't think that this is a good,

00:13:49   I do not think that this is a good replacement

00:13:53   for people who had the leather case.

00:13:55   I don't either.

00:13:56   So I figured that they should have just gone

00:13:57   in a completely different direction

00:13:59   rather than trying to create something like this.

00:14:02   Now, what is interesting about the fine woven case

00:14:05   is they cover the action button,

00:14:07   like one of the volume buttons.

00:14:08   So you get, it's not metal, it's plastic,

00:14:12   but you get a hard button there.

00:14:13   And the peak design just has a big hole in the side of it

00:14:16   where the action button's gonna be.

00:14:17   So I'm a little worried about that.

00:14:19   But I really like the peak design case.

00:14:21   That'll be my daily, I think.

00:14:22   This is interesting.

00:14:23   So the, it's not really that interesting,

00:14:25   but it's just a thing I noticed.

00:14:26   We're talking about iPhone cases.

00:14:27   The little plastic buttons do move on the case.

00:14:32   Like they have like a little movement.

00:14:33   It's not just like a pressure.

00:14:35   'Cause like a lot of cases,

00:14:36   it's like you're just pressing a piece of silicone

00:14:38   or whatever and it's actuating the button

00:14:40   just because there's pressure on the button.

00:14:41   - Including the old Apple leather case.

00:14:42   Look, those buttons don't move.

00:14:44   - Yeah, they don't.

00:14:46   That's weird.

00:14:47   Yeah, I don't know.

00:14:47   I'd be intrigued to see what people at large think of this,

00:14:51   but I don't like the look of it.

00:14:53   And now I'm like, I definitely don't want that

00:14:56   on a watch band, but I wanna try that out too.

00:14:59   I wanna see what that feels like, but I'm not,

00:15:02   you can count Mike Hurley in the not a fan

00:15:04   of the fine woven material.

00:15:06   - Wow, you must hate the environment.

00:15:08   - Well, I would say that there-

00:15:10   - I was sort of expecting you were gonna go with,

00:15:12   you know what?

00:15:13   Yes.

00:15:14   (laughs)

00:15:16   - Yeah, hold on.

00:15:16   No, I'm fine with the environment.

00:15:19   I hate cows.

00:15:20   That's my whole thing.

00:15:21   You know?

00:15:23   That's my whole thing.

00:15:23   - Okay.

00:15:25   Yeah, it feels like a swing and a miss.

00:15:27   And I wonder if they're going to tweak it.

00:15:30   Like I feel like I would be happier with it

00:15:33   if it had some sort of, like the texture's what bothers me.

00:15:36   - Yeah, are you saying they need to refine more than-

00:15:37   - I was gonna say that, oh my God.

00:15:40   Oh my God.

00:15:41   I was just waiting for my moment and you stole it from me.

00:15:44   - So this is the benefit of being in person.

00:15:47   I could see that he was about to take a little pause

00:15:49   and so I could just jump in.

00:15:51   - That's good.

00:15:52   Yeah, I'm very curious what people think about this.

00:15:55   So as you get these in your hands, send us some feedback.

00:15:58   We'd love to hear about it.

00:15:59   - Connectfeedback.com.

00:16:01   This episode of Connected is brought to you by Indeed.

00:16:04   What's a game where no one wins, Mike?

00:16:06   - Chess.

00:16:07   - Also the waiting game.

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00:18:00   and Relay FM.

00:18:01   - So today as we're recording,

00:18:04   iPhone reviews started to drop.

00:18:06   I've got a few in the show notes,

00:18:08   mostly videos because that's who I am.

00:18:11   And I went through and watched a few of them.

00:18:13   What I'll say is nothing here seems surprising.

00:18:15   I think that the, you know, like of all of this stuff,

00:18:18   MKBHD kind of didn't really do a review.

00:18:21   Like, and I think that that's gonna be the case

00:18:22   for a lot of creators maybe.

00:18:24   Like it isn't a super long time,

00:18:26   like they've only had like a handful of days,

00:18:28   but there's a bunch of like early impressions and reviews

00:18:31   and you know, he'll do one later on,

00:18:32   which I'm sure we'll dive more into the camera stuff.

00:18:35   And I kind of summarized a little bit

00:18:38   of some of the points that they were making.

00:18:40   So in MKBHD's review,

00:18:42   he was talking about the fact that this is PVD coated,

00:18:45   right, the Pro phones.

00:18:47   And I'm gonna focus mostly on the Pro phones here

00:18:49   because it is what I'm most interested in.

00:18:51   And he was saying that, you know,

00:18:53   PVD coating as opposed to an anodization can chip.

00:18:57   Like if you were to drop one of these phones,

00:18:59   especially the ones in the darker colors,

00:19:01   you may chip it and see through to the,

00:19:05   underneath the coating, which could be intriguing.

00:19:08   - What came to mind for me is that Apple

00:19:09   has done PVD coating.

00:19:11   Now, granted on steel,

00:19:13   I think also the dark titanium watch

00:19:15   like Jason Snell has is PVD coated.

00:19:17   And that hasn't seemed to be a big problem on the watches.

00:19:20   So I'm not as concerned about that as he seemed to be.

00:19:25   I don't think he was concerned.

00:19:26   He sort of raised the question,

00:19:28   but I don't think it's gonna be that big of a deal.

00:19:30   - And even if it is, remember that cool black iPhone?

00:19:33   - Yes.

00:19:34   - It used to get all chips and stuff.

00:19:35   That looked good.

00:19:36   - Yeah, the iPhone 5.

00:19:38   They only did it one year and then we got space gray.

00:19:40   But I mean, exactly your point, right?

00:19:42   Aluminum does this too.

00:19:44   And so I don't know if they're introducing

00:19:46   like a new sort of failure point.

00:19:49   Now we'll see, like in a year,

00:19:50   if all these phones look like the Millennium Falcon,

00:19:51   then we know.

00:19:53   What I found more interesting about the finishes,

00:19:56   both in MKBHD's video and others,

00:19:58   basically everyone gravitates towards the natural finish.

00:20:01   Everyone's a natural person.

00:20:03   - Yeah, naturalists.

00:20:04   We're all naturalists now.

00:20:05   The natural is the best.

00:20:08   It's the most striking.

00:20:09   It's the most interesting of the colors.

00:20:12   And it actually, you know,

00:20:14   if you're intrigued about the fact

00:20:15   that your phone has a new material,

00:20:17   this is the one that shows that most, really.

00:20:21   Like the black one, they just painted it black.

00:20:23   You know, and the blue one, they just painted it blue.

00:20:25   At least with the natural titanium and maybe the white,

00:20:27   they try and give it at least some kind of effect, you know?

00:20:31   Well, yeah, it's like, I feel like the,

00:20:33   I would honestly have said the same

00:20:35   for both the gold and the white stainless steel ones,

00:20:40   where they were shinier, you know,

00:20:42   they were more reflective.

00:20:43   There's a lot of people plugging the phone

00:20:47   into other things and seeing what happens.

00:20:49   So these phones now do act as kind of battery banks.

00:20:54   So you can, if I had a phone,

00:20:57   so Federico, me and you both have the new iPhone

00:21:00   and I have 90% battery and you have 60% battery.

00:21:03   If we plug a USB-C cable between our two phones,

00:21:05   my phone will charge your phone.

00:21:07   I hope you're excited about that.

00:21:08   Obviously this will also work for like accessories, right?

00:21:11   So we knew this already.

00:21:13   You can plug the AirPods in,

00:21:14   but it will also work for other devices as well.

00:21:18   So that's a thing that can happen.

00:21:19   - Oh, that's nice.

00:21:20   - And MKBHD like others as well,

00:21:22   is very happy with the flexibility of the action button,

00:21:25   but he raises a thing that Alison Johnson

00:21:28   also raises at the verge, which is like,

00:21:30   it would be kind of nice to have a double press action

00:21:33   to do something else.

00:21:35   Which this feels like one of those things

00:21:37   that happens every time they add a new feature like this.

00:21:39   Like, well, one is good, but what if we could do more?

00:21:42   And like, I remember people saying this

00:21:43   about the Apple Watch Ultra as well, right?

00:21:45   That like, well, I can do one thing,

00:21:47   but what if I double tapped it?

00:21:48   And Apple never did anything like that, right?

00:21:50   - But given that it's an iPhone,

00:21:52   they might at this point because they have, I assume,

00:21:55   you know, much more feature requests and feedback

00:21:58   than from an Apple Watch Ultra.

00:22:00   Which I, and I totally agree.

00:22:01   I think it would be lovely to have

00:22:04   twice the customization features, you know?

00:22:08   - 'Cause you know, you have to tap and hold.

00:22:09   Maybe you could like tap once and then tap and hold, right?

00:22:12   And that would act as a double.

00:22:13   - But you press and hold.

00:22:14   - That's what I mean.

00:22:15   So like you, so you like, instead of,

00:22:18   'cause you press and hold, right?

00:22:19   To make it do a thing.

00:22:20   Maybe if you press and then press again.

00:22:22   - Maybe. - So it's like,

00:22:23   press and hold.

00:22:24   - And you still have back tap, like that hasn't gone away.

00:22:27   - If you ever, does anyone ever, does he use that?

00:22:29   - No, 'cause it-- - It didn't work for me.

00:22:31   - It never worked when I wanted to trigger it,

00:22:33   but then I'd walk around with my flashlight on

00:22:35   in my pocket all the time.

00:22:36   So I gave up on it. - Is that a flashlight

00:22:38   in your pocket?

00:22:39   Federico, do you ever use the back tap?

00:22:41   - No, I tried to set it up, but I never remembered to use it.

00:22:46   I just, it's one of those things where, you know,

00:22:49   if I don't see it, I don't remember it exists.

00:22:52   - It's not widely used.

00:22:53   - No, I'm trying to think of like a way to describe it.

00:22:56   It like, it is not a very, not like graceful

00:22:59   is not the word I'm looking for,

00:23:00   but like it's just not a very delightful interaction.

00:23:05   Like tapping the back of the phone to do a thing.

00:23:08   - You've always been against tapping things.

00:23:10   Like you always dislike tapping AirPods too.

00:23:14   - Yeah, I hated that 'cause I didn't want to tap

00:23:15   the side of my head.

00:23:16   Like I'm just not into that.

00:23:17   - You are a tapping.

00:23:19   - Yeah, I am anti-tapping unless it's nose related.

00:23:22   I'll nose tap. - Yeah.

00:23:23   - But like if it's any, I will not tap anything

00:23:25   with my fingers.

00:23:26   I just won't do it.

00:23:27   It's not delightful.

00:23:29   Alison Johnston at The Verge says that it's very,

00:23:33   it feels very good to hold the Pro phones.

00:23:36   I can't get my head around this.

00:23:38   Like I'm very excited for Friday because lots of people,

00:23:42   including Steven has said, like it just feels nice

00:23:44   to hold and like I'm looking at the images in the videos

00:23:48   and I can't see what's different.

00:23:50   - Yeah, it's very subtle.

00:23:52   I think in Alison's, I think it was in Alison's video,

00:23:55   there was a shot of a 14 Pro and a 15 Pro on a table,

00:24:00   like looking flat.

00:24:01   - Yeah, I couldn't see a difference.

00:24:02   - It is very subtle, but where all the joins are on the 14th,

00:24:08   like the screen of the sides is all 90 degrees.

00:24:10   There's just a little bit of a radius there

00:24:12   and it makes the phone look a little bit thinner

00:24:14   and it's definitely more comfortable to hold.

00:24:16   I think the comfort, 'cause I also,

00:24:19   I also in the hands-on played with the iPhone 15 and 15 Plus

00:24:23   and those feel better too,

00:24:25   but the Pros feel even more better

00:24:28   and I think that's the radius plus the weight reduction.

00:24:32   - Okay, and that is another thing, right?

00:24:34   The weight reduction, I'm intrigued.

00:24:35   Like I just don't really know what to expect there.

00:24:39   Johnson says that the five times lens looks good

00:24:43   and allows for you to be able to take photos

00:24:46   of things that you wouldn't otherwise.

00:24:48   That's kind of what I was hoping to hear.

00:24:50   Like it was the only sense of this

00:24:52   that really landed with me,

00:24:54   was this idea that there are,

00:24:56   where I feel like I don't need a 5X lens specifically

00:24:59   is because there are photos I'm just deciding not to take

00:25:03   because I can't get what I want

00:25:05   and that maybe this will provide that.

00:25:08   Matt Pansarino, who I feel like I missed this,

00:25:14   is leaving TechCrunch. - Oh yeah.

00:25:15   - Did you know this?

00:25:16   - He announced it, I think last week

00:25:18   and today's episode of "Decoder."

00:25:20   - That's where it alerted me.

00:25:22   I must've missed this somehow.

00:25:24   - Yeah, TechCrunch absorbed some other organization

00:25:26   and their leaders taking over for Matt,

00:25:29   but he had a 10 year run there,

00:25:32   and he's done such a great job.

00:25:33   We're big fans.

00:25:34   I really hope that he goes indie and writes some stuff.

00:25:38   And then I also really hope

00:25:39   that he starts a cooking YouTube channel.

00:25:41   - And Matt, if you want to do a tech podcast, get in touch.

00:25:45   - No more shows.

00:25:46   - I would break the rule for Matthew Pansarino.

00:25:49   - We'll see.

00:25:50   Pansarino says that the Pro Max is the phone to get.

00:25:52   Like just that's the one.

00:25:55   And he actually said for him,

00:25:57   it's more than any time in history

00:26:01   like of them having the bigger phones,

00:26:04   that this one makes the most sense.

00:26:05   He says the five times zoom lens is a triumph.

00:26:10   He was big on this lens.

00:26:13   And like one of the things that,

00:26:14   so he did a video review,

00:26:15   which I watched and really enjoyed.

00:26:17   One of the things that he's really talking about a lot

00:26:19   is that the five times lens

00:26:22   and the new portrait features, right?

00:26:24   Where you can apply the portrait effects after the fact,

00:26:27   emblematic of something that he feels Apple's doing

00:26:30   with the new camera stuff,

00:26:32   which is you just take a picture and deal with it later,

00:26:36   which is a way easier thing

00:26:39   like having to necessarily choose the mode

00:26:41   that the iPhone is more and more helping you

00:26:45   to take the best photo

00:26:46   and then letting you do something later on

00:26:49   to make it even better.

00:26:50   I thought that was a really interesting insight.

00:26:52   - And you even have that with the 24 megapixel output

00:26:56   where you're getting sort of the best of the 12

00:27:00   and the 48 megapixel data capture and it's merged in.

00:27:03   And you can turn that on on the 14 Pro and 14 Pro Max.

00:27:07   I have not tried it.

00:27:08   - The 24 megapixel?

00:27:10   Are you sure?

00:27:11   - Yes, I'm pretty sure.

00:27:12   - No, 'cause I know what you can turn on is the heath.

00:27:17   - Maybe that's what it is.

00:27:18   - That's what it is.

00:27:18   The 24 megapixel.

00:27:20   - The fake news.

00:27:21   So we're checking.

00:27:22   - 'Cause I've turned it on.

00:27:23   The heath raw file.

00:27:25   - That's what I'm thinking of.

00:27:26   Yes, my apologies.

00:27:27   - And I have turned that on.

00:27:29   So like now I have, it's called Heath Max.

00:27:31   And I've turned that on, but you can't turn on 24.

00:27:35   - Call me Heath, Mr. Max is my father.

00:27:36   - So yeah, watching these reviews, I continue to be excited.

00:27:42   I'm very intrigued about the new camera stuff

00:27:45   and the way this phone is gonna feel.

00:27:48   And I guess I'll look forward in the future

00:27:49   to full on console gaming.

00:27:51   - It's made me think a lot about the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus,

00:27:55   'cause that was the first time we got the dual camera system

00:27:59   and what that let us do

00:28:03   in like the very early days of portrait photos.

00:28:06   And those early ones are pretty bad in hindsight,

00:28:09   but it unlocked a new type of photography on an iPhone.

00:28:14   And it feels like this year

00:28:17   is another one of those type of years.

00:28:19   Not only because the big phone has cool tricks,

00:28:21   the other one doesn't,

00:28:23   but we are moving into this era

00:28:25   like we've on the road to computational photography,

00:28:28   this feels like a big step.

00:28:30   And I'm really excited to get my hands on it on Friday.

00:28:34   I think more excited than I've been

00:28:35   in the last couple of years.

00:28:36   - Yeah, me too.

00:28:37   - My excitement is mostly around

00:28:39   getting my Apple Watch on Saturday.

00:28:41   Like I'm more excited for the Apple Watch Ultra

00:28:42   than I am the iPhone.

00:28:44   - What metal is that Apple Watch Ultra made out of?

00:28:47   (yelling)

00:28:49   - I'm very much over my series 7.

00:28:52   I really just want it gone.

00:28:55   I'm done with it.

00:28:56   - I've seen you wear it this week.

00:28:58   So Mary has a series 8, but it's the small one.

00:29:02   So I'm used to that,

00:29:03   but I haven't seen like a regular,

00:29:05   like the bigger size of the regular watch in a while.

00:29:09   Like, you know, I was like, oh man, that looks small.

00:29:12   - He's what's shaming me, Federico,

00:29:13   can you believe this?

00:29:14   - Have you tried on the Ultra?

00:29:16   - Yeah.

00:29:17   - You tried on Sparks.

00:29:18   - Yes, it's the only one.

00:29:18   I was able to get away with it.

00:29:20   I never tried one on.

00:29:21   And then when I saw David in November,

00:29:24   he just put it in my hand and said, put it on.

00:29:26   - He's a real enabler.

00:29:27   - And I wore it for like half an hour

00:29:28   and decided then I was gonna buy it.

00:29:31   - Yeah.

00:29:31   - But waited and oh boy, can I, you know,

00:29:34   I've gotta be so, it's gonna be so good

00:29:36   when I can do stuff.

00:29:39   - You'll be the only one of the three of us

00:29:40   who can try the second generation ultra wide band thing.

00:29:44   - And I can also do the double tap.

00:29:46   - The pinchy?

00:29:47   - Yeah, that's in October.

00:29:48   I feel like I missed that.

00:29:49   - Yeah, it's coming later.

00:29:50   - I heard that on a podcast a couple of days ago.

00:29:52   - There's so much stuff that's not shipping.

00:29:55   - There's an article on Mac stories outlining all that.

00:29:57   - I know, I spoke about it on upgrade.

00:29:59   - Imagine that.

00:30:00   - I referenced this article and put it in the show notes

00:30:03   of upgrade and used it to talk about things

00:30:05   that are coming later.

00:30:07   Anytime.

00:30:07   Thank you actually, 'cause you did the work

00:30:09   so I didn't have to.

00:30:10   - No, I did the work.

00:30:13   Actually, I ran through the whole list of features

00:30:17   and organized them by platform and send the list to John

00:30:20   and John put it together as a story.

00:30:21   So it was a joint effort.

00:30:22   - So what you're saying is, John is stealing the byline.

00:30:25   - No, I'm not.

00:30:26   I'm saying that Steven was like, John did all the work,

00:30:31   but actually I also did the work.

00:30:34   - I'm gonna log in and change that one to be published

00:30:36   by my Mac story staff.

00:30:38   - But I just think it's really strange though

00:30:43   that John didn't credit you Federico.

00:30:45   - Yeah, what's the little hat tip thing

00:30:47   were you supposed to do on Twitter back in the day?

00:30:49   - Hat tip, H slash T.

00:30:51   I realized yesterday that I ended up somehow on Techmeme

00:30:56   for the review and I thought, wow,

00:30:58   that's a thing I haven't thought about in a while.

00:31:02   Tip at Techmeme, tip Techmeme.

00:31:06   - Tip Techmeme.

00:31:07   I'm just really surprised that you're just not mentioning

00:31:09   it all in this log for Federico.

00:31:11   I just don't know.

00:31:12   Did you upset OTJ?

00:31:13   Is he mad at you?

00:31:14   - No, no, no, no.

00:31:15   I mean, I only put together the list.

00:31:17   He brought it up as a story.

00:31:20   I'm just saying that Steven presents me as a slacker

00:31:23   and I'm not.

00:31:24   - He does, he does.

00:31:26   - I mean, he took that, but I will just say

00:31:28   the masthead of Mac stories is by Federico Vatici in Friends.

00:31:33   - That's a very old logo that needs to be changed.

00:31:36   - John's just a friend.

00:31:37   - Yeah, yeah.

00:31:38   - They're just friends.

00:31:40   They're just friends.

00:31:41   Federico put John in the friend zone.

00:31:44   - Wow.

00:31:45   - That's what I have a, John is in the,

00:31:47   I thought that maybe Federico John was mad at you

00:31:50   because you took him hostage for the review.

00:31:52   Like there are many screenshots of like FaceTime and stuff

00:31:56   where I'm like looking at it and I'm like,

00:31:58   Federico just said, "John, I need to FaceTime you."

00:32:00   And then they just had a FaceTime call

00:32:02   and you made him stick a thumbs up at you

00:32:03   and stuff like that.

00:32:04   - Yeah, well, we did that last month.

00:32:07   So it wasn't like this sort of thing

00:32:11   that he had to do for a whole week just before the review.

00:32:14   So we did it in stages and that FaceTime call

00:32:17   was only 10 minutes, like three weeks ago.

00:32:20   It wasn't too bad, but John read the whole thing

00:32:25   in like two days or something with edits.

00:32:28   So it did a lot of work for the review.

00:32:30   - He's a trooper.

00:32:31   He's one true trooper, is that guy.

00:32:34   Let me tell you, he's putting in the work over there.

00:32:36   Isn't that John Paul?

00:32:37   Is John working on a MacOS review?

00:32:39   He is, right?

00:32:40   - Yeah, yeah.

00:32:41   - I bet he wasn't happy like Jason.

00:32:43   One of my favorite moments,

00:32:45   I don't know if either of you heard it.

00:32:46   - I saw the video.

00:32:47   - Yeah, where the video is actually really good.

00:32:49   I'll find the video and put it in the show notes

00:32:51   where I got to break to Jason when MacOS was coming out.

00:32:55   He didn't know.

00:32:56   And you can see the moment where his soul loses body.

00:32:59   The video is much better than the actual podcast moment

00:33:03   of it, it's very, very funny.

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00:35:00   Our thanks to Electric for their support

00:35:02   of the show and Relay FM.

00:35:04   I would like to welcome to the show the man of the hour,

00:35:07   Federico Vittucci.

00:35:08   It is me.

00:35:09   Welcome Federico.

00:35:10   A little round of applause Federico.

00:35:12   You did it.

00:35:13   - Thank you.

00:35:14   - iOS and iPadOS 17 review has been published.

00:35:17   How are you feeling?

00:35:18   It's like 24 hours out.

00:35:19   How are you feeling?

00:35:20   - Oh, very good.

00:35:21   Very good.

00:35:22   Very tired, very tired, but very good.

00:35:24   And I am mostly just very happy that my plan worked.

00:35:29   That I was able to put this one together

00:35:32   in different stages, right?

00:35:36   A lot of work done upfront in June and July.

00:35:39   Take a few vacations in August and then finish it all up

00:35:42   in less than three weeks at the end of August,

00:35:46   just before review season in September.

00:35:49   So yeah, I feel very happy, very glad that it's done

00:35:54   and that I don't have to worry about a massive article

00:36:00   for the next nine months.

00:36:03   - This was the first review post Twitter.

00:36:06   - Yeah, yes.

00:36:08   - For us.

00:36:09   - Yes.

00:36:10   - Did that change your experience?

00:36:11   - I gotta be honest, yeah.

00:36:14   Yesterday, for the sake of honesty, this is a safe space.

00:36:19   Yesterday, I missed Twitter.

00:36:21   I really did.

00:36:22   - I can imagine there was a sense maybe

00:36:24   of it feeling a little underwhelming, the response.

00:36:26   - It really did.

00:36:27   And for a couple of reasons, obviously,

00:36:29   because there's fewer people who follow me on Mastodon

00:36:33   than there used to be on Twitter.

00:36:35   And Twitter was just faster.

00:36:37   And, you know, busier at these times of year.

00:36:42   And it also doesn't help that I broke Mastodon

00:36:46   for a few minutes.

00:36:47   Our Mastodon process restarted a couple of times.

00:36:51   And the nature of Mastodon itself

00:36:54   is that your federated posts,

00:36:56   they don't immediately go out to other servers.

00:36:58   They may take a few minutes.

00:37:00   And so as a result of those bugs and the nature of Mastodon,

00:37:04   some people missed my announcement

00:37:06   and some other people had to wait several minutes

00:37:08   to see the announcements.

00:37:10   Whereas Twitter was always real time.

00:37:11   - I wanted to boost it.

00:37:13   And I was like sitting there for like 10 minutes

00:37:15   waiting for the post to appear.

00:37:17   - Yeah, so yesterday I really missed Twitter.

00:37:22   And, but then again, you know, it is what it is.

00:37:27   I don't wanna use Twitter anymore.

00:37:30   So besides that, I mean, obviously the response

00:37:33   for being sort of only announced on Mastodon also

00:37:36   because I cannot use threads.

00:37:38   I did post it on Instagram and that was fun.

00:37:40   It's actually doing better than I expected on Instagram

00:37:44   compared to what I thought it was gonna do.

00:37:47   But it still feels like despite the lack of Twitter,

00:37:53   which was always great for these events,

00:37:57   but I still feel very good.

00:37:59   And I'm still very happy that it's out there

00:38:00   and that people have liked the graphics and the animation

00:38:04   and the sort of the structure that I chose for the chapters.

00:38:08   It was a different review than usual,

00:38:11   not just because I,

00:38:13   not just because there wasn't Twitter for me to announce it,

00:38:18   but also because I took a different approach

00:38:20   with the, you know,

00:38:21   with the actual putting together the story.

00:38:24   I took a different approach with the table of contents.

00:38:26   I returned to offering a single review

00:38:29   for two operating systems.

00:38:31   So it's iOS and FOS back together once again.

00:38:34   All these new things I didn't do

00:38:38   for the first time in forever,

00:38:39   I didn't do a shortcuts chapter.

00:38:41   There's no standalone shortcuts chapter.

00:38:44   It's just a section in the apps chapter.

00:38:46   - You would have struggled to do a thing.

00:38:48   - Yeah, I wasn't exactly kind to that.

00:38:52   But yeah, so the combination of all these things

00:38:57   made working on the review really fun,

00:39:01   exhausting obviously, but still very rewarding.

00:39:05   And it feels so nice to have, you know,

00:39:08   my ninth review done.

00:39:10   And next year it's gonna be my 10th annual review,

00:39:14   which is, I don't wanna think about it.

00:39:16   - Don't try not to, it's too soon.

00:39:20   I have one chapter left to go.

00:39:22   It's very, very good, the vibes are good.

00:39:26   I was reading most of it on my iPhone

00:39:28   in the Miami airport, which I don't even know

00:39:31   if you know about this story at Federico.

00:39:33   I'll tell you about it later on,

00:39:34   but I spent the night in the Miami airport.

00:39:36   And I really enjoyed it.

00:39:39   The last couple of years, I mean, I said it before,

00:39:43   it just suits me, like the length and the tone

00:39:47   and the style like really suit me as a reader.

00:39:51   So, I mean, I would just say I really enjoy it

00:39:54   more than I ever have.

00:39:55   I just think you're doing a very, very good job.

00:39:57   I think it is testament to you

00:39:59   that you could be nine years in

00:40:00   and be doing a vastly better job all the time.

00:40:04   It's like kind of wild.

00:40:05   Like I don't actually know how you manage it.

00:40:07   So bravo to you. - Thank you.

00:40:09   Thank you.

00:40:09   And that makes me, that's very nice to hear.

00:40:12   It's always a struggle, you know,

00:40:15   for me to be, for me to strike the kind of tone

00:40:21   that makes the review enjoyable for me to put together,

00:40:24   but also for people to read,

00:40:26   because ultimately, you know,

00:40:27   what good is a review if nobody reads it?

00:40:31   And so striking that balance of, is it actually enjoyable?

00:40:34   Like, can you take this thing

00:40:38   and sit down with an iPad or a Kindle

00:40:40   and have a cup of coffee or drink, whatever,

00:40:42   and just enjoy reading it?

00:40:44   But is it also useful?

00:40:46   Like, is it also, because I do this for,

00:40:49   I do these things for me, right?

00:40:51   I write these things for me,

00:40:52   and I try to find a way to find some financial sense

00:40:57   for people as well.

00:40:58   Obviously, otherwise I wouldn't do it for the glory alone,

00:41:01   because I have, you know, I have a mortgage to pay.

00:41:05   But like, one of my priorities,

00:41:10   besides being an enjoyable piece of writing,

00:41:12   it's also, it's gotta be well-documented.

00:41:14   It's gotta be, like, does it have historical value?

00:41:17   And I don't mean to sound so like exaggerated with that,

00:41:21   but in this very specific corner of the world,

00:41:26   you know, a guy who reviews an operating system,

00:41:30   I want to believe that there is some historical value

00:41:34   to the screenshots and these details.

00:41:36   You know, if only, you know, years from now,

00:41:39   somebody like Steven will be an iOS historian, you know?

00:41:43   Like, that sounds weird as a thing to say,

00:41:46   but hey, somebody 20, 30 years from now

00:41:49   will start collecting iPhones and be like,

00:41:50   oh, look at these old computers.

00:41:53   And maybe they'll look back at, you know, these reviews.

00:41:57   And so that's also the thing I gotta prioritize.

00:42:01   And obviously, the final part of,

00:42:04   so there's the enjoyment of the story.

00:42:06   There's the technical part of the story,

00:42:08   and there's the experience of the story,

00:42:12   like everything around it, you know?

00:42:13   So the ebook and the things that I get to do every year

00:42:17   as fun little extras.

00:42:20   And every year, I try and do something different.

00:42:23   And I have already some ideas for my 10th review next year.

00:42:27   But this year, I did the ebook, and I did a making of,

00:42:31   instead of doing it as I always do on Mac Stories Weekly

00:42:35   where I'm gonna do something else, I did it on App Stories,

00:42:38   and then I commissioned two Obsidian plugins

00:42:41   that I ended up using myself, and I realized,

00:42:45   well, maybe these are also useful for people.

00:42:48   And everything came together.

00:42:50   It took me about 80 hours total for this project.

00:42:55   It's 33,000 words, less than 35K,

00:43:00   which I told you I was gonna hit,

00:43:02   and you guys were very skeptical.

00:43:04   - Yeah. - But it's 33K total.

00:43:07   - Hey, look, you did a good job last year, but we know you.

00:43:11   - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Right?

00:43:13   And so like, we could, it would have been,

00:43:15   I think the odds would have been on over 35,

00:43:19   but I'm very happy that you got it under 35.

00:43:22   - Under 35, 80 hours, and yeah, so I did it.

00:43:27   - One thing new this year is the chapter on intelligence.

00:43:31   I think we spoke about this a couple of weeks ago.

00:43:33   Apple obviously has a big push there.

00:43:35   What made it, what elevated it for you to the point of,

00:43:40   hey, this needs to be its own section?

00:43:45   I always try and come up with a list of chapters at WWDC,

00:43:49   because there you always have a pretty good sense

00:43:52   of the kind of features that Apple wants you to focus on

00:43:55   for a new version of iOS and iPadOS.

00:43:57   And plus you're talking to people,

00:44:00   you're talking to developers,

00:44:01   you get an idea of what is actually like,

00:44:04   what are some of the core themes this year?

00:44:06   And as I was putting together my list of potential sections

00:44:10   at the time in the Notes app,

00:44:12   eventually I went back to Obsidian, of course,

00:44:15   I realized, well, there's all these things, right?

00:44:18   There's Siri and there's the AutoCorrect, which is fantastic.

00:44:22   There's all the new stuff in visual lookup

00:44:24   and sort of my guiding light for all of this

00:44:28   was the Vision Pro.

00:44:29   There's a brand new platform and device

00:44:33   coming out in a few months,

00:44:36   which are almost entirely based on intelligence, right?

00:44:40   Entirely based on hand recognition, on augmented reality,

00:44:44   that's like intelligence turning into the OS itself.

00:44:48   And so I figured, well,

00:44:50   if I want to review VisionOS in the future,

00:44:53   which I think is most likely my future,

00:44:56   start reviewing VisionOS too,

00:44:59   or maybe instead of iOS and iPadOS,

00:45:01   I don't know what my future holds.

00:45:04   I think I want to make it to 10 reviews at least,

00:45:08   but I don't know what's coming after that, we'll see.

00:45:12   But I know that I want to write about VisionOS

00:45:15   and I know that I want to review VisionOS.

00:45:17   And so I figured, well,

00:45:18   maybe a good way to start preparing for that

00:45:21   as an exercise for me as a writer as well

00:45:23   would be to have a chapter all about these features.

00:45:28   And also because it's the right thing to do.

00:45:30   From the standpoint of our,

00:45:35   like when you consider our jobs,

00:45:38   which is we talk about Apple stuff,

00:45:39   we talk about a tech company,

00:45:41   what is this tech company doing?

00:45:42   They are investing heavily into these things.

00:45:45   And so for me not to write about them

00:45:48   would be a disservice to people.

00:45:51   So it felt like a good thing to do for me personally,

00:45:55   but also the right thing to do

00:45:57   given the topics that we cover.

00:45:59   - Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

00:46:01   And I have been thinking about VisionOS

00:46:05   as a operating system more and more,

00:46:08   because right now, obviously it's not out.

00:46:11   And right now it's sort of hard to separate the OS

00:46:15   from the hardware in my mind.

00:46:16   Now, you two use it, I haven't,

00:46:18   so I'm from an outsider perspective,

00:46:20   but kind of in the way that that was true of the iPhone.

00:46:22   In the beginning, it was iPhone firmware updates.

00:46:25   It was like a very different thing.

00:46:27   But eventually, maybe on day one,

00:46:30   but eventually VisionOS will have its own identity

00:46:34   sort of separate from the hardware,

00:46:35   especially if there's more than one model in the future.

00:46:39   So I think you're right to be thinking about that now

00:46:43   and kind of turning that over in your mind

00:46:45   before you have to make a decision.

00:46:47   - Yeah, exactly.

00:46:48   Like start exercising now.

00:46:51   Okay, so how do you write about the keyboard?

00:46:54   How do you write about things

00:46:57   that get recognized in pictures?

00:46:59   Before, these were always treated as features

00:47:03   of other apps like visual lookup,

00:47:07   I would write about in the context of the photos app.

00:47:10   And Siri would just be its own little section.

00:47:12   Maybe, I think at some point it was like this appendix

00:47:15   to the shortcuts chapter or something.

00:47:17   So this time I wanted to talk about them more broadly

00:47:22   from a single perspective.

00:47:24   Like these are all the intelligence features

00:47:26   that Apple works on.

00:47:27   At some point in this review,

00:47:30   there was a chapter that I cut

00:47:33   that was supposed to be an AirPods and audio chapter.

00:47:37   And I didn't publish it.

00:47:40   In fact, I didn't write anything about AirPods

00:47:44   because potentially contrarian opinion incoming,

00:47:49   I really, really dislike the new adoptive audio setting

00:47:54   of the new AirPods.

00:47:55   - Yeah, I'm not sold on it.

00:47:57   I've been trying it on and off

00:47:59   and what I don't like about it

00:48:02   is I feel like my head is under pressure too much.

00:48:05   - Yeah, it's got that.

00:48:06   It's slightly muffled like all the time.

00:48:09   - Yes, and so it has a weird feeling

00:48:13   where it's like I can still hear things

00:48:14   but I still can feel the noise cancellation.

00:48:18   So I'm trying it.

00:48:19   Like I'm not giving up on it yet.

00:48:21   Like I keep like toggling it on.

00:48:24   And the personal volume and conversational awareness,

00:48:29   I think are actually pretty decent but not perfect.

00:48:31   So I'm trying those out too.

00:48:32   But yeah, it is a, this feels like a thing

00:48:35   where it's very 1.0, a lot of these AirPods features

00:48:38   and they need to be tweaked a bit.

00:48:41   I said this on upgrade, Federica,

00:48:43   I think you would enjoy this.

00:48:44   So I've been using the conversational awareness, right?

00:48:46   Where you can talk to someone.

00:48:48   When I brush my teeth, it pauses my music.

00:48:51   - That's incredible.

00:48:52   - And I don't know exactly what it is.

00:48:54   Like, is it the sound that the electric toothbrush?

00:48:56   - The sound is coming from inside the head.

00:48:58   - Yes, but that's just such, what is it?

00:49:00   I took like, ah, that's how I talk to people.

00:49:03   You know, like, ah, ah, ah.

00:49:05   Maybe there's a weird tone in my voice, but yeah,

00:49:07   when I brush my teeth, it keeps pausing my music.

00:49:09   - Yeah, so I felt like I don't really like this feature.

00:49:13   I felt like I needed more time to test it.

00:49:16   These AirPods functionalities, they change

00:49:19   and they are tweaked more often

00:49:22   in the late cycle of the beta

00:49:24   compared to say Safari in iOS 17.

00:49:27   So I thought, this chapter is not gonna be fun to write.

00:49:30   It's not gonna be good enough for people.

00:49:33   We even had images done with Michael Stieber

00:49:38   for the chapter.

00:49:39   - Which are all so good, by the way.

00:49:41   I meant to mention this.

00:49:42   Those animations and images are just fantastic.

00:49:45   - Yeah, Michael is improving every year

00:49:48   and he does such an incredible job.

00:49:51   Also like listening to my very specific feedback,

00:49:55   which I know that I can be a lot to work with

00:50:00   because I'm a bit of a control freak

00:50:02   in every single aspect of my life, but especially--

00:50:06   - You're preaching to the choir right now, you know.

00:50:08   - But especially with this review.

00:50:10   This thing is my baby, you know,

00:50:11   and so I care about it a lot,

00:50:14   but thankfully Michael is very patient

00:50:16   and very upfront in terms of when it comes to some things

00:50:21   that can be done or cannot be done,

00:50:22   which is something I,

00:50:23   it's a quality I appreciate in people.

00:50:26   So anyway, yeah, that chapter was not gonna be good enough,

00:50:29   I thought, and so it was cut from the table of contents.

00:50:33   I don't know.

00:50:34   I think there was this one theme,

00:50:39   which is widgets everywhere.

00:50:42   iOS is a pretty, you know, minor release, right?

00:50:46   There's a bunch of features here and there.

00:50:48   - Yeah, I asked Adina to update her phone last night

00:50:51   and this morning she said,

00:50:52   "So what's different?"

00:50:53   I'm like, "Ah."

00:50:54   (laughing)

00:50:55   I said like, "You'll see stuff.

00:50:57   You'll see stuff."

00:50:58   That was my answer.

00:51:00   - Exactly, like that's the idea.

00:51:01   Like people will upgrade and they won't notice

00:51:04   and maybe they'll notice like,

00:51:05   "Oh, there's this new thing here.

00:51:06   There's a new thing there."

00:51:08   So the one thing for me and for the people like us

00:51:12   that was worth writing about was the interactive widgets.

00:51:15   That's where I spent most of the time,

00:51:16   most of the energy, testing widgets, talking to developers,

00:51:21   trying to have examples in the story

00:51:24   to paint a more complete picture.

00:51:26   That was the key theme that I also sort of talked about

00:51:30   again in the conclusion.

00:51:32   And iPadOS was pretty easy in the sense that

00:51:36   Apple didn't really do a lot of work on iPadOS this year

00:51:40   beyond stage manager,

00:51:41   which fixes things that we complained about last year.

00:51:44   And I hear that more is coming.

00:51:47   - I will say, I would like to just stop you there a second.

00:51:50   I understand what you're saying.

00:51:52   I wouldn't necessarily say they didn't do a lot of work.

00:51:56   Like it really does feel like they rewrote stage manager.

00:51:58   - Oh no, no, no.

00:51:59   Yeah, I meant beyond stage manager.

00:52:01   Like beyond stage manager, what is in iPadOS 17?

00:52:04   - I can't believe that-

00:52:05   - The camera stuff.

00:52:06   - I can't believe that contact posters aren't in iPadOS.

00:52:11   - Wait, they're not?

00:52:12   - No.

00:52:13   - Why?

00:52:14   Like some stuff I understand that it's just like,

00:52:17   why, like what?

00:52:18   Like, "Oh, we don't know how to make the images

00:52:20   "they have a feature for next year."

00:52:22   - But it's not even really a feature, is it?

00:52:24   I like it, but it's like, it's, you know,

00:52:25   it's not like widgets or whatever where like next year

00:52:28   it'll be like, "Oh wow, widgets on the iPad."

00:52:30   - I called somebody yesterday

00:52:32   and I guess they'd already updated to iOS 17.

00:52:34   Like, "Oh, you're the first like,

00:52:35   "you're the first big picture I've seen."

00:52:38   - I like that people can set them

00:52:41   and I like that you can set them for people.

00:52:43   Like I like that you have both of those options to you

00:52:45   'cause that's like a cool thing.

00:52:48   - So, Federico, I wanted to ask you,

00:52:50   I'm sorry if I've stopped your train of thought there,

00:52:54   if you had another thing you wanted to say.

00:52:56   Okay, do you think you will do a review of 17.1?

00:52:59   - Oh yeah, I think so.

00:53:00   I did it before.

00:53:01   - Because it's probably gonna be pretty big, right?

00:53:03   - I did it before, I'm pretty sure that I did last year,

00:53:05   I did 16.2 when Apple brought out external displays

00:53:09   for stage manager, I did a story.

00:53:10   Yeah, it's not unusual for me to do a follow-up

00:53:13   with these big releases.

00:53:14   And it sounds like it's gonna be another big release.

00:53:16   There's a bunch of things that were cut

00:53:17   from 17 and here's what I was saying,

00:53:21   that I hear that more stage manager stuff

00:53:24   is potentially coming very soon.

00:53:25   Not sure if that means 17.1, but maybe,

00:53:30   which by the way, I was sort of expecting today

00:53:34   to see a 17.1 beta, maybe it's gonna be next week though.

00:53:37   But yeah, I don't think Apple is done

00:53:41   working on stage manager and to your point, yes,

00:53:43   I do think that they actually rewrote

00:53:46   at least parts of the whole thing

00:53:49   because it looks very similar and it tries to keep

00:53:52   a lot of the same guiding principles,

00:53:54   but in practice it feels very different

00:53:57   from last year's stage manager.

00:53:59   - Well, good work Federico.

00:54:01   I look forward to finishing it.

00:54:02   I have like one and a half chapters left

00:54:05   to finish the apps chapter and then the kind of,

00:54:07   I don't remember, then it will be everything else.

00:54:09   - Everything else goes down smoothly.

00:54:11   It's like a fresh glass of water.

00:54:14   It's like a palate cleanser.

00:54:15   And the, see for the future,

00:54:18   something that I wanna optimize more in my process,

00:54:22   this is something that I was discussing

00:54:23   with Sylvia this week and that I'm gonna try

00:54:25   and do better for next year.

00:54:28   These apps chapter is getting out of control.

00:54:30   - There's stuff in the apps chapter

00:54:32   that I'm surprised is in there, like messages and Safari.

00:54:36   - And there's apps I couldn't cover in time

00:54:41   because I just couldn't cover free form.

00:54:44   There's a bunch of changes there.

00:54:46   I couldn't cover translate,

00:54:47   which got completely redesigned in iOS 17.

00:54:50   We'll have to follow up on these things

00:54:52   throughout the course of September on Mac stories.

00:54:56   But this is something I wanna optimize more for next year.

00:55:00   I think I need more help from other writers,

00:55:03   from other people to talk about all the apps

00:55:05   that Apple makes.

00:55:06   And I think in the review,

00:55:08   I just got to cover the essentials.

00:55:11   I mean, for example, I love clock.

00:55:16   Just this is just an example.

00:55:18   But I think I gotta come up with a list

00:55:21   of what are the core apps that have ramifications

00:55:26   elsewhere in the system.

00:55:27   Obviously I gotta write about Safari and messages and photos.

00:55:31   But there are things that maybe I can choose

00:55:34   not to write about and have them be standalone pieces

00:55:37   outside the context of the review.

00:55:41   Because otherwise it's just getting out of hand

00:55:43   for me at these points.

00:55:44   Like covering 20 different apps.

00:55:46   It also becomes this log of a chapter and it's not fun.

00:55:51   And sure, maybe it's useful from an historical perspective,

00:55:54   but remember it's gotta be both useful and enjoyable.

00:55:58   And I think that chapter has gotten too long

00:56:00   as Apple keeps making more apps

00:56:03   because they sure keep making them.

00:56:04   And there's journal coming out soon.

00:56:07   So there's gonna be one more.

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00:58:17   but the code is connected50 and the URL

00:58:20   factormeals.com/connected50

00:58:24   and you get half off your first box.

00:58:26   Our thanks to Factor for the support of the show

00:58:29   and Relay FM.

00:58:30   - So one of the milestones that we had

00:58:33   for the fundraising of the St. Jude campaign

00:58:36   was that we would audit Stephen's Mac.

00:58:39   So when Federico was away,

00:58:42   I presented my Mac set up to Stephen for an audit.

00:58:46   The idea was he would go through and make some suggestions

00:58:49   about how to make my Mac better.

00:58:51   Now Federico, I would like to take a different tact

00:58:54   with the audit today,

00:58:55   and I'm hoping that you'll be able to join me.

00:58:57   I would like to point out to Stephen

00:58:59   the things that he does that are unnecessary,

00:59:02   because I'm sure that there are many of them.

00:59:05   Things that he does with his computer

00:59:07   that there is no need to do,

00:59:09   that they are excessive in some way,

00:59:11   and/or hoarder-like.

00:59:13   And I think that it would be really good for us

00:59:15   to try and dig some of these out today from Stephen

00:59:19   and challenge him as to why he is the way that he is,

00:59:22   and so he can really take a long look in the mirror

00:59:24   and think about himself.

00:59:25   What do you think about that?

00:59:26   - I love it.

00:59:27   - Let's take him down a peg.

00:59:28   (laughing)

00:59:30   So I would like to start, I have three.

00:59:32   So we have in the show notes here the dock, the menu bar,

00:59:36   and a photo of Stephen's desk.

00:59:37   Now Federico is my partner in crime here.

00:59:39   What I would like you to do

00:59:41   is take a look at some of these images

00:59:42   and maybe try and formulate some questions

00:59:45   about why are you the way that you are.

00:59:47   I have three to start with.

00:59:49   So Stephen, I would like to know

00:59:52   how much storage is in your MacBook Pro, please.

00:59:55   - Eight terabytes.

00:59:56   - Do you think that might be a bit too much?

00:59:58   - No, 'cause I hover around four normally.

01:00:01   So being on a four terabyte machine would be difficult.

01:00:03   - Why do you have four terabytes of stuff on your computer?

01:00:06   - I don't have to answer that.

01:00:07   - You do, this is the order, this is the point of it.

01:00:09   Like what consists of this four terabytes?

01:00:12   Where is that being taken up?

01:00:13   - Let's see.

01:00:15   I mean, it's mostly, do I have daisy disk installed?

01:00:18   I do have daisy disk installed.

01:00:20   Let's see what daisy disk does.

01:00:21   - Let us let it do its thing.

01:00:23   - Okay.

01:00:24   - Other apps are available, like CleanMyMac,

01:00:25   which is what I use for this stuff.

01:00:27   While we're talking about storage,

01:00:29   I noticed in a screenshot, I think it was the menu bar one,

01:00:32   that not only do you have your drive on your desktop,

01:00:35   you have the amount of storage space used.

01:00:38   Why do you need that?

01:00:39   Why do you do that?

01:00:40   - 'Cause I wanna feel better about spending so much money

01:00:43   on this laptop.

01:00:44   - So you just wanna be reminded.

01:00:45   Isn't it bad though?

01:00:46   Like it reminds you that you got eight terabytes

01:00:48   of internal storage in your MacBook Pro?

01:00:50   - That's definitely a hangover from the days

01:00:52   where I had like a 40 gigabyte hard drive

01:00:54   and a power book or something.

01:00:55   - Can you not think about like the price per terabyte

01:00:59   added to every computer?

01:01:01   Because if you had this all in off board storage,

01:01:05   - Sure.

01:01:06   - Then you don't need, 'cause every time you buy a Mac now,

01:01:09   it has to have a minimum of eight terabytes of--

01:01:12   - Yeah, so I used to, when I had the Mac Pro,

01:01:16   there were things that were not on the boot drive.

01:01:18   - Yeah.

01:01:19   - But-- - That's a good idea.

01:01:20   - And with the Mac Studio,

01:01:23   I didn't have everything on there,

01:01:24   'cause it was a desktop.

01:01:25   It was literally screwed into the bottom of my desk.

01:01:27   - Yeah.

01:01:28   - But now that I'm one laptop only,

01:01:30   I don't wanna meet a situation where the project I need

01:01:33   or something I wanna reference is not with me.

01:01:36   - That's a good point.

01:01:37   There's four terabytes of stuff.

01:01:38   Now I'm assuming when the scan completes,

01:01:41   the majority of this is your Dev and Think database.

01:01:43   - A lot of it is.

01:01:44   - Yeah.

01:01:45   - Although it only says it's 170 gigs,

01:01:47   which doesn't seem right.

01:01:48   The biggest single directory on this computer

01:01:52   is my local copy of everything Relay FM has ever published.

01:01:57   That's almost a terabyte.

01:01:58   - So here is a great, this is great.

01:02:00   You don't need that on your,

01:02:02   you do not need that on your computer.

01:02:03   - But it's better.

01:02:04   - And then you're like, oh, it has to be with me

01:02:07   in case I don't know where you think you are working

01:02:10   that's not in this exact room.

01:02:12   - I mean, so that could be elsewhere.

01:02:14   - Oh, definitely.

01:02:15   - But that's just a terabyte.

01:02:17   Like that's not, I mean, that would let me live

01:02:18   on a four terabyte machine, I guess.

01:02:20   - Yeah.

01:02:21   - And Apple.com.

01:02:23   - We don't have to talk about how much that option was.

01:02:25   - No, no, no, I like this idea of it's just a terabyte.

01:02:28   I just want to see like this just, like how much is this?

01:02:31   - It's just $500.

01:02:32   It's just 500.

01:02:33   (laughing)

01:02:34   - They're just, you know, we throw them around, you know?

01:02:36   - So after that, my pictures folder is 634 gigs.

01:02:41   - You have more, you have more.

01:02:43   - For, yeah, $400.

01:02:44   - Apple stuff than pictures of your three kids.

01:02:48   Like in terms of.

01:02:49   - Photos is bigger than my.

01:02:51   - Is it?

01:02:52   - Dev and Think database.

01:02:53   - Okay.

01:02:54   - But the biggest single directory is the Relay FM archives.

01:02:57   - But yeah, wait, I'm agreeing with Federico here.

01:02:59   You were confused about this Dev and Think database.

01:03:03   You didn't, you seemed like that wasn't right to you.

01:03:06   'Cause also you have a lot of video.

01:03:07   - So the video has been moved off of this machine

01:03:11   onto my Plex server in the house.

01:03:12   - So you can move things off of a machine.

01:03:14   - Those I have.

01:03:15   - Why?

01:03:17   - 'Cause that stuff's on YouTube, all of it.

01:03:18   Almost all of it.

01:03:19   - And the stuff that you have on there

01:03:21   is not available anywhere else, like on your own website?

01:03:23   - The stuff that I have like in Dev and Think in particular

01:03:27   is collected from so many different sources.

01:03:30   And a lot of it are sources that aren't public.

01:03:33   - Yeah.

01:03:34   - We'll just leave it at that.

01:03:35   That those all live in Dev and Think.

01:03:37   But the biggest thing is.

01:03:38   - That's like 100 gigabytes you said, right?

01:03:40   - The database folder is 170 gigs.

01:03:42   - What is that?

01:03:43   Is there other stuff that it's pulling from?

01:03:45   - It's all that.

01:03:46   - So that's 170 gigabytes,

01:03:47   which could live on a one terabyte computer very fine.

01:03:50   So like, where's this?

01:03:52   Where's the other?

01:03:53   - So the big thing is Relay FM archives.

01:03:56   - Yeah, which you don't need on your computer, right?

01:03:58   We can agree with that.

01:03:59   - And then it's like scattered to the wind.

01:04:01   So it's like 500 gigs here, 400 gigs there.

01:04:03   - What is 400 gigs there?

01:04:06   Like it's still 400.

01:04:08   Like what?

01:04:09   For what?

01:04:10   - That is my folder of Apple software installers.

01:04:14   - A folder of Apple.

01:04:16   - Look, so if I got to boot one of these things.

01:04:18   - No, look.

01:04:19   I agree.

01:04:20   I agree you should have these things, right?

01:04:23   - But not on your computer.

01:04:26   - There you go.

01:04:27   - But if it's on an external drive,

01:04:28   it has to be on a second external drive

01:04:29   or it's not backed up properly.

01:04:31   - I'm going to get to that.

01:04:32   - And then I have a stack of drives on my desk.

01:04:35   Now when I had the Mac Pro, it was all internal,

01:04:36   but now the Mac Pro is dumb.

01:04:38   - So you have a cabin full of computers.

01:04:40   You can keep two external drives.

01:04:42   - Yes, this is an excellent point.

01:04:45   Like I'm looking at your UPS, right?

01:04:47   The Uninterruptible Power Supply.

01:04:49   That is massive.

01:04:50   That is like the size of a computer.

01:04:52   - I bought that for the Mac Pro and it's still good.

01:04:57   - Oh my God, I've just realized how funny this is.

01:05:00   You have a UPS for a laptop.

01:05:02   It has its own battery.

01:05:04   - But the studio display doesn't

01:05:05   and the external SSDs don't.

01:05:07   - Wait, whoa, hang on.

01:05:09   There's external SSDs.

01:05:10   You just said you didn't know that.

01:05:12   - But they're the backup drives.

01:05:13   - Right, so why are the backup drives okay

01:05:15   to live on the desk?

01:05:16   - We'll talk about this.

01:05:17   Mike, look under the desk.

01:05:19   - Okay, I'm looking.

01:05:20   - Do you want me to raise it up for you?

01:05:21   - No, I can see.

01:05:22   - How much stuff is in there?

01:05:23   - What do you mean?

01:05:24   - Like how many drives does it have?

01:05:26   - Under the desk is very clean.

01:05:27   There's just the UPS and there's an era on top.

01:05:30   On top of the desk, which is an odd choice,

01:05:32   I think there's like three external drives.

01:05:35   - Two external drives, the CalDigit and my audio equipment.

01:05:38   - But like why can't one of those be an eight terabyte SSD?

01:05:41   - That actually in total is 24 terabytes of SSD.

01:05:46   - What is going on?

01:05:47   - Okay, we're just gonna be talking about storage

01:05:49   like half an hour.

01:05:50   What's on those 24 terabytes?

01:05:53   Wait, so you have eight terabyte SSD inside

01:05:55   and 24 terabytes of SSD just on the desk.

01:05:58   - Yes.

01:05:59   - You have a problem.

01:06:00   - No, no, no, no, no.

01:06:01   This is too much, man.

01:06:03   I mean, you are concerned about problems that don't exist.

01:06:08   - Let me explain what the external SSDs are.

01:06:11   So there is an eight terabyte SSD

01:06:15   that it is the nightly clone of the laptop.

01:06:17   So if the laptop falls in the river,

01:06:19   because I am noticeably to me like nervous

01:06:24   about having one computer,

01:06:25   'cause I've had two computers for such a long time.

01:06:27   And if the laptop was lost or stolen or fell in a pool,

01:06:31   like my desktop was safe and sound out here.

01:06:34   But with just the one computer,

01:06:35   I wanna make sure it's backed up really thoroughly.

01:06:37   So the eight terabyte volume,

01:06:40   which is a single eight terabyte drive is a nightly clone.

01:06:44   The bigger of the two cases is two eight terabyte SSDs

01:06:49   that are one 16 terabyte volume.

01:06:53   And that's my time machine backup.

01:06:55   So it's twice as big as the laptop.

01:06:57   - I'm sorry, but this is too much.

01:06:59   - Time machine over SSD is very fast.

01:07:02   It's sweet.

01:07:03   - Nothing is gonna have to require all these backups.

01:07:07   - If a tree falls through this office, it matters.

01:07:10   - You have stuff in the cloud.

01:07:12   You have backplace, you have Dropbox.

01:07:14   I can understand having either time machine or a nightly cone

01:07:17   but to have everything happening all at once.

01:07:21   - To think they are all in the same physical space

01:07:23   as each other.

01:07:24   - Well, there are also drives that aren't here.

01:07:25   - Oh my God.

01:07:26   - That are backed up to about once a month.

01:07:28   - Steven, I love you,

01:07:30   but you're not running the MacBook of Joe Biden.

01:07:33   (laughing)

01:07:34   You don't have national security stuff on your computer.

01:07:39   - You don't know what I have in Devon think.

01:07:40   - He doesn't need to have six different backups.

01:07:43   - Yeah, there is a, I feel like that there is like a time,

01:07:47   there is like a timeline of when people did this.

01:07:51   And Steven has fought, Steven's advanced years

01:07:55   over me in Federico means that he has fell

01:07:57   onto that timeline.

01:07:58   - So what I can tell you what happened to me.

01:08:00   - Okay.

01:08:01   - In college, you were hit by a ball of lemon.

01:08:03   - Tell us about your trauma, Steven.

01:08:05   - Did you fall into a radioactive part of SDs?

01:08:09   - I did.

01:08:10   - You became drive man.

01:08:11   - In college, my power book had water spilled on it.

01:08:15   And I lost basically all of my college work.

01:08:18   - Okay.

01:08:19   - And when I walked through that trial of fire and water,

01:08:22   I said, never again will I lose data.

01:08:25   - This is all a great point,

01:08:27   but you have gone to a length which is unnecessary.

01:08:30   - But it lets me sleep at night.

01:08:32   And to be clear, this actually doesn't help my case.

01:08:35   I was gonna say those SSDs were in the Mac Pro.

01:08:38   So it's like I bought them just for backup,

01:08:39   but I bought them for backup

01:08:41   when they were inside the Mac Pro.

01:08:42   So they've been upcycled.

01:08:45   - The eight terabytes of SSD inside of your laptop,

01:08:47   we can all agree is too much, right?

01:08:49   But will you agree with this that it is too much?

01:08:52   - I could get away with four.

01:08:53   - Yes, 'cause you're half using this right now,

01:08:55   you're not gonna use this machine

01:08:57   for more than another two years.

01:08:58   Like you're just not, you will upgrade it

01:08:59   because that's who we all are, you especially, right?

01:09:02   You love new Macs.

01:09:04   It's too much, man.

01:09:05   It's too much.

01:09:06   Like you've got what, like five different backups?

01:09:10   - Backblaze, Time Machine, Clone.

01:09:13   - And then the-

01:09:14   - So the stuff is synced to Dropbox and other places.

01:09:16   - No, but then also these like ones

01:09:18   that you won't talk about

01:09:19   that are put in a safe somewhere or whatever.

01:09:20   - Yeah. - Yeah.

01:09:21   So how many more are there?

01:09:22   - That's like a stack of spinning drives

01:09:24   just to like cover all my,

01:09:26   that is a real situation that needs more work.

01:09:29   - Federico, I wish you were in this room with me right now.

01:09:31   - I hate it. - Because this man is,

01:09:32   his brain is spinning as he's trying to explain this.

01:09:36   It's so good.

01:09:37   - You have taken this, I'm very concerned

01:09:40   because I knew you had a lot of surge

01:09:43   and like thoughts about backups,

01:09:45   but you have reached this sort of doomsday scenario point

01:09:50   where you're like, you're like those people

01:09:53   who worry about the apocalypse

01:09:55   and they start stacking up like canned food and stuff

01:10:00   in case like an atomic event happens

01:10:02   and they need to live underground for 20 years,

01:10:05   nothing is gonna happen to your computer.

01:10:07   You are never going to use this computer

01:10:10   for more than two years

01:10:12   because you're always gonna get the new one.

01:10:14   You don't need to spend all this money.

01:10:16   - Your life would be easier

01:10:18   if most of this stuff was on external drives

01:10:20   because every time you buy a new computer,

01:10:22   it takes like a hundred days

01:10:23   to transfer the data from one to the other.

01:10:24   - The transfer did take a long time.

01:10:26   - Yeah. - I mean, really, I,

01:10:28   and reflecting on this, I just really miss the Mac Pro

01:10:32   'cause it was sweet that all of it was just in the machine.

01:10:36   - Let me tell you about this. - But the new Mac Pro

01:10:38   doesn't make any sense.

01:10:39   - But then why do you, but okay,

01:10:41   so we come back to a thing

01:10:43   that I brought up a long time ago.

01:10:45   Why did you switch from the Mac Studio to the MacBook Pro?

01:10:48   - That's what I wanted to mention.

01:10:49   I don't understand why don't you have a Mac Studio?

01:10:53   - It will never make sense to me.

01:10:55   I felt like there was never a reason at the time

01:10:58   and I still don't understand.

01:10:59   I don't understand why you did it.

01:11:00   - And it was never fully explained to us?

01:11:02   - Really the reason was that I wanted to have the experience

01:11:07   that most people who use a Mac

01:11:12   in a professional environment do,

01:11:14   which is a laptop and an external display.

01:11:16   And I hadn't done that since like 2013 or '14.

01:11:20   And so I thought it was time to, with the M2,

01:11:25   I thought it was time to experiment with that again.

01:11:29   Honestly, other than sort of the mess of cables

01:11:32   that you have to have

01:11:33   and like the really overpriced CalDigit TS4

01:11:36   that it's sitting over there,

01:11:38   I feel like the experiment's been really successful.

01:11:40   Like I like having everything on one machine.

01:11:42   I like that when I take it somewhere, everything is with me.

01:11:44   Like when I went to Apple last week

01:11:46   or this week we were at St. Jude every day.

01:11:48   But it does come with the nervousness of,

01:11:52   oh boy, my whole life and job is all just in one place.

01:11:57   So that's why the backups are there.

01:11:59   So if I have to recover from something,

01:12:03   I can do it pretty quickly.

01:12:04   - I think you should go back to the Mac studio.

01:12:06   I think this is a noble idea, but like-

01:12:11   - Yeah, I wanna see what the M3 generation brings

01:12:16   and make a decision.

01:12:17   - I feel like your role as Mac Pal user.

01:12:19   - Yes.

01:12:20   - I understand why you would be like,

01:12:22   all right, I want to have a MacBook Pro and a display

01:12:26   like the majority of the listeners.

01:12:27   But do you really feel like you learned anything

01:12:29   from this experience, like specifically?

01:12:32   - You wanted to be a people person.

01:12:34   You tried, it was a honest effort.

01:12:36   - The idea of being the every man

01:12:38   with the eight terabyte SSD inside of a MacBook Pro.

01:12:40   - That does break down my argument.

01:12:43   I will give you that.

01:12:44   - Yeah, you're like the meme of like,

01:12:48   you know, with the dog being like,

01:12:50   they don't realize, they don't know yet that I'm a dog.

01:12:53   And there's like sheep around the dog.

01:12:57   It's like, I get it as a thing you wanted to try,

01:13:02   but you should just embrace your true self.

01:13:05   - And I think my true self probably is like a desktop

01:13:07   and then a MacBook Air.

01:13:08   - Yeah. - Yeah.

01:13:09   - That's what I do.

01:13:11   Although I use a MacBook as a desktop,

01:13:13   but I will one day buy the Mac Studio.

01:13:15   - Yeah, we talked about that.

01:13:15   But you have your 13 inch Air here

01:13:18   as like that's such a perfect laptop.

01:13:19   - It's the perfect laptop.

01:13:21   That laptop you have, it's a 14 inch, right?

01:13:23   It's too big.

01:13:24   When this thing is so perfect

01:13:27   and for all of the work that we do, no problem.

01:13:31   - So we'll see where I end up,

01:13:33   but that's kind of, that's the storage.

01:13:36   The next thing in the outline, it says laptop on a stand.

01:13:41   - Yeah, this is madness.

01:13:42   Laptop on a stand.

01:13:43   I don't understand it.

01:13:44   Like this is the thing that I don't like, right?

01:13:46   Which is why I don't get it,

01:13:47   which is using the laptop screen as a second display,

01:13:52   it doesn't work for me.

01:13:53   Like the size disparity between the two displays is massive.

01:13:58   So like, I always felt like if I did this,

01:14:00   I would drag an app from one window to the next

01:14:02   and it would just be a nightmare

01:14:04   because it was always the wrong size completely.

01:14:06   - Well, you need a good window management tool.

01:14:08   I would suggest that episode of MPU to you.

01:14:10   - Well, no, 'cause I, David gave me a private thing once

01:14:14   and we went through Moom together and I got,

01:14:16   but it's still like, that's too much of an aggravation for me

01:14:18   of like moving the things around.

01:14:20   And I do think it is just, it looks weird on a desk.

01:14:23   - It takes some getting used to.

01:14:25   For me, so I'm sitting in front of a studio display

01:14:28   and the laptop is status.

01:14:31   So on the left side is time-ery

01:14:34   and the right side is reminders

01:14:36   or whatever my to-do manager is.

01:14:38   And it's just like, I can look over there

01:14:40   and kind of get a status of my day and then move on.

01:14:45   And even with the Proteus Play XDR, which I had before,

01:14:48   I didn't really have a place,

01:14:51   like I wanna look over here and see what's going on.

01:14:53   Now, I tried two studio displays and it was just too much.

01:14:56   It was too much for that desk in this office,

01:14:59   it was too much.

01:15:00   And so I, that's living at my brother's now.

01:15:03   But if I do go back to a desktop at some point

01:15:08   with a studio display, I'll probably use an iPad

01:15:09   or something as a sort of a status board.

01:15:12   'Cause I do find that to be useful the way that I work.

01:15:15   But yeah, I'm not like writing email over there

01:15:17   and then coming back to the main display,

01:15:19   like the work is all happening on the studio display.

01:15:21   - This isn't something that I think needs to change.

01:15:23   I just wanna, that's just like a thing.

01:15:25   I don't like it. - I get it.

01:15:26   - And I just wondered how you felt about it.

01:15:27   - Yeah, it's not great.

01:15:30   Now I don't care about,

01:15:31   actually I have promotion off on the MacBook Pro.

01:15:34   The color stuff doesn't mean anything to me,

01:15:36   like I don't need it.

01:15:37   And so I think some people would be bothered by,

01:15:39   oh, the laptop screen's way better than the studio display.

01:15:42   But in the ways that it's better,

01:15:44   don't make a big impact in my life.

01:15:45   So I'm okay with that.

01:15:47   You know, it's better paired with a Pro Display XDR,

01:15:50   but even then you don't have promotion.

01:15:52   So maybe at some point Apple will have an external display

01:15:55   that matches the quality and the specs of the MacBook Pro,

01:15:59   but that ain't there yet.

01:16:00   - Federico, did you have any additional questions for Steven?

01:16:03   - I have questions about apps.

01:16:05   The software, I'm not fully sold on your choices.

01:16:10   For starters, overcast on the Mac.

01:16:13   - Only for checking that things publish okay.

01:16:16   - You have your phone, you have your phone.

01:16:18   - Yeah, but it's like on the dock, you know,

01:16:19   I can just open overcast on the Mac.

01:16:20   - Oh come on, why?

01:16:21   It's like 30 centimeters away from you?

01:16:23   - Yeah, it's a long way away.

01:16:25   - I'm sorry Federico, I have overcast on my Mac too

01:16:27   for the same reason.

01:16:29   I understand, I 100% understand what you're saying,

01:16:32   but I do it too.

01:16:33   - So the other thing I want to understand is

01:16:36   why Mars Edit, both in the dock and the menu bar,

01:16:41   and follow up question,

01:16:43   why don't you just blog from Safari or from?

01:16:48   - I really like Mars Edit,

01:16:51   and I don't like writing in the browser.

01:16:54   That's probably the time I came up, you know, like.

01:16:57   - I would like to introduce you to our CMS.

01:16:58   - Yeah, but it's not for blogging currently.

01:17:01   - So don't you have like, that's your text editor.

01:17:04   You don't have a text editor like Obsidian or IE writer,

01:17:08   like you use Mars Edit.

01:17:11   - For longer things, I'll use IE writer,

01:17:13   but most of the stuff I write is not your, you know,

01:17:18   IO 17 review.

01:17:19   And so I will just write in Mars Edit,

01:17:21   save it locally and then publish it when I'm ready.

01:17:23   As far as it being both places,

01:17:25   I realized that in the screenshot,

01:17:28   I don't actually ever use it from the menu bar.

01:17:30   So I needed to turn that off,

01:17:32   but I wanted my screenshot to be kind of

01:17:34   as it was at the time.

01:17:36   - Also in the menu bar, you have some icons

01:17:38   I don't understand.

01:17:40   What's the first blue one from the left?

01:17:42   - Let me pull up the screenshot

01:17:44   'cause it may be different now.

01:17:45   - Dymo. - Dymo.

01:17:47   So that is the software for my label printer.

01:17:52   And the only reason that's installed right now

01:17:54   is because I've started some preliminary stuff

01:17:57   on the calendar fulfillment and yeah,

01:17:59   it just runs up there and it's terrible and ugly.

01:18:01   - Also in the secondary menu bar, what's the Q icon?

01:18:05   - That's Quitter that Marco wrote

01:18:07   that'll hide or quit apps after a given amount of time.

01:18:09   - And what about the one on the left

01:18:11   that looks like a letter C?

01:18:13   - Carbon Copy Cloner.

01:18:14   So that's what I'm using to back up each night.

01:18:17   - And lastly, Good Links in your doc.

01:18:21   - Yeah.

01:18:22   - That's your Read Later app or is it something else?

01:18:24   - It's my Read Later app.

01:18:25   - Okay, so you also have it on your phone, iPad.

01:18:30   - Yep, everywhere.

01:18:31   I'm a big fan of it.

01:18:33   - Yeah, I mean, I don't have,

01:18:34   I understand the thing about Overcast.

01:18:36   That one thing is there.

01:18:38   The calendar icon, that's Fantastical, right?

01:18:41   - No, it's Apple Calendar.

01:18:41   - It's Apple Calendar?

01:18:43   Are you using Apple Calendar instead of Fantastical?

01:18:45   - Everywhere.

01:18:46   - Everywhere.

01:18:47   - Yep.

01:18:47   - Care to explain why?

01:18:48   - I just don't need a lot of the extra stuff

01:18:51   Fantastical offers.

01:18:52   And so there are a couple of things I would--

01:18:54   - I'm in the same boat,

01:18:55   but I thought you were using Fantastical.

01:18:58   - I did for a long time.

01:18:59   And I think at some point in the last couple of years,

01:19:01   it was like, let me try Apple Calendar again.

01:19:03   And it was enough.

01:19:04   - So you're both using Apple Calendar?

01:19:05   - Yeah, it's fine.

01:19:06   Yeah.

01:19:08   Also because now on iOS 17,

01:19:09   you can just create a calendar event from Spotlight.

01:19:13   And it's--

01:19:14   - Oh, that's cool.

01:19:16   - Maybe at this point,

01:19:17   I couldn't tell you why I'm using Fantastical,

01:19:19   but I just am.

01:19:21   - The iPhone app in particular is really nice.

01:19:22   - It's very nice.

01:19:24   - Well, when it remembers what day you're on.

01:19:26   - Oh, yeah.

01:19:27   - It does that a lot.

01:19:28   - Oh, no.

01:19:29   - Yeah, and that's pretty much it for me.

01:19:31   Ivory makes sense.

01:19:33   Apple Notes.

01:19:36   What do you put in Apple Notes?

01:19:38   That doesn't go--

01:19:39   - Everything.

01:19:40   - Well, everything doesn't go into DevanThink,

01:19:41   doesn't go into Day One,

01:19:42   doesn't go into Mars Edit,

01:19:44   doesn't go into Good Links.

01:19:45   What is everything?

01:19:46   - So Notes is my personal database.

01:19:50   So I'm looking through it, right?

01:19:51   There's stuff, there's personal stuff,

01:19:54   like my list of medications or upcoming trips.

01:19:58   DevanThink is tech history solely.

01:20:01   So some things start life in Good Links,

01:20:03   and I say, oh, you know what?

01:20:04   I'm actually gonna save this to DevanThink.

01:20:06   And then, Day One is all feelings and dream,

01:20:10   mostly my dream journal.

01:20:12   And so, yeah, I feel like I don't have as much overlap

01:20:16   as I used to.

01:20:17   I used to really struggle with that.

01:20:17   Like, what's a note?

01:20:19   What's a file?

01:20:20   And I've kind of, that's sort of settled down for me.

01:20:23   I have currently 438 Notes in Apple Notes, by the way.

01:20:27   - How many?

01:20:28   - 438.

01:20:29   - Okay.

01:20:29   Well, that's it for me.

01:20:31   - I think that's fair.

01:20:32   I mostly just wanted to talk about your storage,

01:20:33   which I feel like I've done effectively.

01:20:36   - I think we'll look back on this episode,

01:20:39   knowing Steven as a very expensive one.

01:20:42   - Yeah, I've been exposed.

01:20:43   - I could feel from the audio,

01:20:46   the moment when you realized.

01:20:47   - The embarrassment is strong.

01:20:49   - But like the moment you realized

01:20:50   that you really should go back to a desktop computer.

01:20:52   - Oh yeah, that too.

01:20:53   - You could feel the money leaving your wallet

01:20:57   from this episode.

01:20:58   - Honestly, like if it weren't for the MacStudio OSI,

01:21:03   which I sold for this experiment,

01:21:04   and I sold a MacBook Air too.

01:21:06   I basically, I mean, I covered the cost of this MacBook Pro

01:21:08   by selling those machines, but I love the Mac Pro,

01:21:12   but the values of the Intel one were sinking so fast,

01:21:16   I couldn't keep it.

01:21:17   Like, I was burning money each month that it stayed around.

01:21:22   And it's just a shame the new one isn't that interesting.

01:21:27   - Well, there's another computer out there for you,

01:21:29   which is good.

01:21:30   - The MacStudio is a great fit, so.

01:21:32   - Kate in Discord has made a good point.

01:21:34   The screensaver that you're using in the images here

01:21:38   in your desktop wallpaper,

01:21:40   these will all be part of the package that are available

01:21:44   to people who donate $60 or more to the St. Jude campaign

01:21:48   at stjude.org/relay.

01:21:50   - That's right.

01:21:51   - Thank you, Curt, C.F., James Thompson, and Jelly.

01:21:53   - I think that does it for this week.

01:21:54   If you wanna find links to the stuff we spoke about,

01:21:57   and look, y'all, if y'all have not read

01:21:59   Federico's Review, call on sick tomorrow to work, and--

01:22:03   - You don't deserve this podcast.

01:22:05   - Yeah.

01:22:06   - If you haven't listened,

01:22:07   if you haven't read Federico's Review, or listened to it,

01:22:08   you could fire up that thing in Safari

01:22:10   and just listen to it.

01:22:11   - Today, Mike discovered that Safari can read to you,

01:22:13   but then he didn't know how to turn it off.

01:22:14   What did you end up doing?

01:22:16   - I force quit Safari, that didn't do it.

01:22:19   And then I found the play, it was just in the play controls.

01:22:22   So Federico, I started playing it and closed the article,

01:22:25   and it still kept going.

01:22:26   - Kept reading.

01:22:27   - Which wasn't what I was expecting to happen.

01:22:29   - Yeah, yeah, it becomes like a source of,

01:22:31   like it goes into now playing, like music.

01:22:34   - I also found out today

01:22:35   that there are regional British accents for Siri,

01:22:37   and I've changed my Siri voice

01:22:40   to a Northern British accent.

01:22:43   The British accents now are so good in Siri,

01:22:47   like I've really struggled to choose the one

01:22:51   that I ended up going with.

01:22:52   So where are we, Siri?

01:22:54   This was the one I had.

01:22:56   - I'm Siri, choose the voice you'd like me to use.

01:22:58   - Which is just very like,

01:23:00   that's like an adaptation of how Siri has always sounded.

01:23:03   And then I heard this one, which I really loved.

01:23:06   - Hi, I'm Siri, choose the voice you'd like me to use.

01:23:09   - Which is a very London based accent.

01:23:12   And then this is the one I ended up going with.

01:23:14   - Okay.

01:23:16   - Hi, I'm Siri, choose the voice you'd like me to use.

01:23:19   - 'Cause I like that she says it like Siri.

01:23:22   - Oh, that's fun.

01:23:23   - I'm Siri, I like that, that's fun for me.

01:23:25   - Siri.

01:23:26   - Hi, I'm Siri, choose the voice you'd like me to use.

01:23:30   - It's really good.

01:23:31   - That's fun.

01:23:32   - So it didn't initially read to me

01:23:34   as a Northern English accent,

01:23:36   but then when I started having it read your review to me,

01:23:39   it was clearer.

01:23:40   Maybe I could do that too,

01:23:41   so people can get the full experience

01:23:43   and go to Mac stories.

01:23:44   - And iPad OS 17, the Mac stories review

01:23:50   by Federico Vitic-C-SEP 18, 2023, 10 o'clock CDT.

01:23:56   (laughs)

01:23:57   In the year when the vision is elsewhere,

01:23:59   what do you get the OS that has everything?

01:24:02   Well, last year was weird.

01:24:04   For the first time since I started writing annual reviews

01:24:07   of Apple's two mobile operating system.

01:24:09   - There you go.

01:24:10   So that to me reads as an as a Northern English accent

01:24:13   and I love it.

01:24:14   And now I'm very happy to have this as my Siri voice.

01:24:18   - So Lynx are in your podcast player

01:24:20   and they're on the web at relay.fm/connected/468.

01:24:24   There you can join a get connected pro,

01:24:26   which is a longer ad free version of the show

01:24:29   each and every week.

01:24:30   You can find all of us online.

01:24:32   You can find Mike on a bunch of other shows

01:24:35   here on relay.fm and his work over at Cortex Brand.

01:24:39   He's imike on threads.

01:24:40   - Can you permit me one emotional moment?

01:24:42   - And imike@mike.social on Macedon.

01:24:44   - The subtlety and sweater is back at cortexbrand.com

01:24:47   and we've added a lightweight hoodie.

01:24:49   It's available until October 10th, cortexbrand.com.

01:24:52   Can I just say for a second?

01:24:54   You promoted the Kickstarter for like a month in a row.

01:24:58   - To be fair, to be fair, he has a point.

01:25:00   In fact, I haven't promoted anything

01:25:03   because I don't have any physical products.

01:25:06   (laughing)

01:25:08   - So I feel like I could get one.

01:25:11   - Maybe I should turn it into,

01:25:12   maybe I should turn it into a physical book.

01:25:14   - I would very much like that.

01:25:16   - No.

01:25:18   - When did you finish writing and editing it?

01:25:20   - The night before.

01:25:22   - It's a real fast turnaround for a printed book.

01:25:24   - You could do it as like people could buy it

01:25:25   and then you could just like ship it to them

01:25:28   when it's done, you know?

01:25:29   - I should do like a collection of leather-bound reviews

01:25:32   but you cannot do leather anymore.

01:25:33   So I should do a collection of fine woven bound.

01:25:36   - Fine woven, the encyclopedia federica, you know?

01:25:42   I would love it.

01:25:43   I would genuinely enjoy physical iOS review books.

01:25:48   I think that'd be fun.

01:25:49   - You can find the non-physical version of it

01:25:52   at macstories.net.

01:25:54   There's a lot of great coverage.

01:25:55   Of course, I think we'll be talking about Sonoma next week.

01:25:57   So keep an eye out for John's review.

01:25:59   We'll be talking about that.

01:26:00   - Oh yeah.

01:26:01   - Yes, Sonoma's next week.

01:26:02   - I feel bad for John.

01:26:03   - And we did not talk about tvOS.

01:26:06   So there's a tvOS review coming.

01:26:07   - I know, right?

01:26:08   Someone's gonna have to do that.

01:26:09   - Somebody's gotta do it.

01:26:11   - Yeah, man.

01:26:11   Yeah, man.

01:26:12   (laughing)

01:26:13   I have yet to install tvOS 17 on a device.

01:26:16   Yesterday when I'll upgrade, Jason was like,

01:26:19   "Oh, and there's continuity cameras."

01:26:21   - Yeah, he called me.

01:26:22   He was on his couch.

01:26:23   It was great.

01:26:24   - I have a lot of work to do.

01:26:25   I am going to do it.

01:26:26   I don't know when it's gonna happen, but it will happen.

01:26:28   I will do it.

01:26:29   - Maybe we'll give you a couple weeks.

01:26:30   - Yeah, I don't know when it's gonna happen.

01:26:31   - You gotta fly home next week.

01:26:32   You can find Federico on Mastodon at Viticci

01:26:37   at macstories.net.

01:26:38   You can find my writing over at 512pixels.net

01:26:41   and I host Mac Power Users here on Relay FM

01:26:44   each and every Sunday.

01:26:46   You can find me on Threads as ismh86

01:26:49   and I'm ismh@eworld.social on Mastodon.

01:26:52   I thank our sponsors this week, Indeed, Electric, and Factor.

01:26:56   Until next time, guys, say goodbye.

01:26:58   - Adios,

01:26:59   - Cheerio.