472: It's Fun to Imagine with Stephen


00:00:00   [MUSIC]

00:00:08   Hello and welcome to Connected episode 472.

00:00:12   It's made possible this week by our sponsors, Electric, Clean, MyMac X, and NetSuite.

00:00:17   My name is Stephen Hackett and I have the pleasure of being joined by Mr. Federico Vitticci.

00:00:22   >> Hello, Stephen, how are you?

00:00:23   >> I'm good, how are you?

00:00:25   >> I am doing fantastic, in fact.

00:00:27   And back to a normal routine.

00:00:29   Mid-October, it's no longer summer here and you can tell it's raining.

00:00:34   And I don't love it, but it's nice to have a normal routine with very little Apple news.

00:00:39   So it's fine.

00:00:41   >> There's some Apple news, we'll get to that.

00:00:43   >> Some, yes.

00:00:44   >> The smallest possible Apple news.

00:00:46   Mike is away this week, so we're not just not introducing him, he's not actually here.

00:00:55   >> We should do something for Mike who's not here.

00:00:58   >> You know, as a tradition on this show.

00:01:00   Given that we are going to talk about titanium shortly in follow-up, I have an idea.

00:01:07   If you miss Mike, send him your favorite, and stay with me here, Stephen,

00:01:12   send him your favorite song that mentions a mineral in the title.

00:01:19   >> Whoa.

00:01:20   >> Can be iron, can be gold, can be copper.

00:01:24   I don't know, are there any songs about copper?

00:01:27   Is copper a mineral?

00:01:29   >> No, I don't think so.

00:01:30   >> Well, send him a song that mentions a rock or a metal or whatever,

00:01:37   you know, reminds you of titanium.

00:01:39   But it cannot be titanium, it can be something else, you know?

00:01:42   >> He's gonna get four mentions and that's it.

00:01:43   That's so specific.

00:01:46   >> Hey, I'm sure there are songs about metals and, so metals and minerals are fine.

00:01:52   Just go for it.

00:01:52   >> Sounds like a Pokemon game.

00:01:55   >> Metals and minerals.

00:01:56   >> Pokemon metal.

00:01:58   >> So speaking of titanium, listener Spol, S-P-O-L, put this in the Discord for Relay FM members.

00:02:07   You get access to that by being a member of Connected Pro or any other shows here on Relay.

00:02:12   And this is the podcastathon remix of the titanium song.

00:02:17   And what they did is they found, you should go watch it, it's a 40-second song,

00:02:22   found sound clips in the 12-hour podcastathon, edited them together so it sounds like we're singing the song

00:02:28   and it's got the music under it.

00:02:29   This is a masterpiece.

00:02:31   It is so good.

00:02:31   >> It's perfect.

00:02:32   It's perfect.

00:02:33   The patients, it must have taken to put this together.

00:02:37   I have no idea how they did it.

00:02:38   And it's, my favorite part is that it opens with the shot of you wearing a mouse head and a giraffe head.

00:02:50   Like, you know, the first frame of the video?

00:02:53   >> Yeah.

00:02:53   Yeah, those scary masks we wore during one of the games.

00:02:55   >> Yeah, that's perfect.

00:02:57   I love it.

00:02:57   So well done, Spol, for putting this together.

00:03:00   >> Speaking of the podcastathon, we spoke about the transcript that we put together.

00:03:06   And Tom wrote in with their favorite out-of-context snippet.

00:03:12   I just want to read this to you because it's unhinged.

00:03:16   >> Please do.

00:03:16   >> Come over, boys.

00:03:18   Wake me up.

00:03:19   So this is touching things, surprise and delight.

00:03:21   Surprise and delight.

00:03:23   I look forward to being both surprised and delight.

00:03:25   I'm not sure how much delight's going to happen.

00:03:27   Oh, no, there's going to be plenty of delight, not just for you.

00:03:30   Yeah, we're going to be delighted.

00:03:32   You're going to be horrified, surprised.

00:03:34   Come over, boys.

00:03:37   Wake me up.

00:03:38   >> So this is touching things, surprise and delight.

00:03:44   >> Yes, yeah.

00:03:45   Which were all things that we talked about on "Ungeniest" and it was wild.

00:03:50   >> I love it.

00:03:52   Perfect.

00:03:52   And this is a good use of your CPU time for transcribing the whole thing.

00:03:57   >> It really was.

00:03:58   I think I'm going to go back and do the others.

00:04:01   I think I should.

00:04:03   Tell me about the lock screen and shortcuts.

00:04:08   >> So last week we spoke about the inability for shortcuts to tell whether a shortcut is

00:04:16   running in the context of the lock screen.

00:04:19   And I mentioned this because I wanted to put together a shortcut that would do different

00:04:23   things if it was running on the home screen versus if it was running on the lock screen.

00:04:28   For example, if a shortcut is running on the lock screen, maybe I'm in a hurry and maybe

00:04:33   instead of typing text, I want to dictate some text.

00:04:37   Now, a bunch of people wrote in saying, "No, you can do this because Actions, the free

00:04:42   app by developer Sindro Soros, has a get locked status action."

00:04:48   But maybe people missed this clarification from the show.

00:04:52   If you use that action, you're not going to get the answer I'm looking for.

00:04:59   Because if you pick up your phone and you look at it, and if it's a modern phone that

00:05:03   has face ID, and you run that action from a shortcut, that's always going to tell you

00:05:09   the phone is unlocked.

00:05:10   And that's no different from running a shortcut on the home screen, right?

00:05:16   That action is only getting the locked status of the phone.

00:05:21   It's not telling you whether the lock screen is visible, which is what I wanted to have.

00:05:27   Now, friend of the show, Guy Rambeau, listened to that episode and did some magic to put

00:05:33   this together.

00:05:33   And Guy posted a teaser on Macedon first and later sent out a test flight beta, which is

00:05:40   still ongoing, for a little utility called Action Body.

00:05:44   And Action Body, similarly to the Actions app, is a container for a variety of shortcuts

00:05:50   actions.

00:05:51   The app is literally just a collection of actions for shortcuts.

00:05:55   One of these actions is exactly what I wanted to have.

00:05:59   Is lock screen visible?

00:06:01   I don't want to get the lock status of my phone, because again, if I look at my phone

00:06:06   on the lock screen, it's going to be unlocked.

00:06:08   And effectively, the result is the same as if I'm on the home screen.

00:06:13   The phone is unlocked.

00:06:15   What I want to know is whether the lock screen is visible, whether it's locked or unlocked.

00:06:21   And you may ask, how can the lock screen be unlocked?

00:06:24   Well, like I just mentioned, if you just look at it via face ID, or if you open notification

00:06:29   center, right?

00:06:30   That's another instance in which you may swipe down, you go back to quote unquote, the

00:06:36   lock screen, and you can run a shortcut.

00:06:38   Now this action does it.

00:06:40   I don't know how exactly Guy did it, but it works.

00:06:44   It got approved by Apple on test flight.

00:06:46   Like I said, the utility is called Action Body.

00:06:49   Guy is adding a variety of actions right now.

00:06:51   There's actions for Bluetooth.

00:06:53   There's actions for secure enclave encryption, which I'm not sure exactly what they do.

00:07:00   I think they're causing some issues at the moment with the test flight beta, because

00:07:04   my understanding is that shortcuts actions are not meant to access the secure enclave

00:07:10   of a phone.

00:07:11   I was thinking not.

00:07:12   Yeah.

00:07:12   So yeah, but this is exactly what I wanted to have.

00:07:16   Tell me if the lock screen is visible, regardless of the authentication layer, right?

00:07:21   Regardless of whether I use face ID or touch ID or I open notification center.

00:07:26   I just want to know, am I on the lock screen right now?

00:07:29   And hopefully this utility will come out on the App Store at some point, or maybe other

00:07:33   developers will copy this idea.

00:07:35   We'll see.

00:07:35   But yeah, this is a thank you Guy for putting this together.

00:07:37   Guy does some wild stuff.

00:07:40   I mean, yes, it's cool.

00:07:43   We are on the verge of iOS 17.1 shipping.

00:07:47   How is reminders?

00:07:49   It's one of them.

00:07:50   So broken for me is how I would describe it, but not for other people.

00:07:57   And that's the worst kind of bug that can happen to you, right?

00:08:01   Where Apple engineers can now reproduce it.

00:08:04   So for context, I've been saying this for the past few weeks.

00:08:09   I had to stop using reminders on my phone and iPad because of this bug that I have with

00:08:17   natural language dates and times.

00:08:21   Whenever I enter a date in reminders, usually in the evening it seems, but say if I type

00:08:29   something like Monday at 11 AM, reminders does not recognize the date and instead puts

00:08:37   in a suggestion like today at 2 AM.

00:08:41   Like something totally unrelated to what I just typed.

00:08:46   And I've been speaking about this for the past few weeks.

00:08:50   I've been sending bug reports to Apple.

00:08:52   I know they're looking at it and a bunch of people wrote in asking, did you do anything

00:08:58   weird with your time zone settings on your phone?

00:09:00   Do you have any weird regional settings?

00:09:04   And no, I didn't do anything wrong.

00:09:07   I didn't do anything out of the ordinary.

00:09:09   I keep my phone with the same settings that I've been using for the past few years, which

00:09:13   is automatic time zone.

00:09:15   I don't set it manually.

00:09:17   It's just automatic time.

00:09:20   I have my phone set to the US region, English language and metric unit system.

00:09:29   Like I don't do...

00:09:32   It's like I'm using a phone in English as if I am in the United States, but the time

00:09:39   is automatically set.

00:09:41   So really it's no different the way this phone is set up from say the typical American

00:09:47   tourist visiting Italy in the summer.

00:09:49   Well, they're on vacation.

00:09:51   They don't need to be looking at reminders.

00:09:52   Right.

00:09:53   I guess you have a point there.

00:09:55   So yeah, a bunch of people have asked like, do you have any anything weird in your local

00:10:02   settings?

00:10:03   I don't think I do.

00:10:04   And also this phone and reminders was working fine before iOS 17.

00:10:12   In fact, it was working just fine during the iOS 17 betas in the summer.

00:10:17   In the summer, something changed at some point.

00:10:21   I didn't configure anything else.

00:10:23   I just kept using reminders.

00:10:25   And at some point the date and time parsing broke.

00:10:28   And how can you use a task manager that doesn't let you enter dates and times in natural language?

00:10:35   I mean, sure you could do it manually, but as Mike mentioned last week, that UI in reminders

00:10:43   takes way too many taps to add a date and a time to a task.

00:10:47   This is shipping.

00:10:49   Unless the iOS 17.1 version that we're getting next week, I assume, is different from the

00:10:57   release candidate that they sent yesterday.

00:11:00   I think this bug is going to ship next week and hopefully we'll get a fix in 17.2.

00:11:07   Some other people on Mastodon have said that they have the same problem.

00:11:11   As Mike also mentioned last week, there's also that ongoing issue with British English

00:11:19   not setting a reminder for the upcoming Sunday, but only for two Sundays from now.

00:11:26   So that's also still ongoing.

00:11:28   I saw on Mastodon today from a person saying the British English bug is also still here.

00:11:34   So yeah, a bunch of bugs in reminders, which is unfortunate because it's really an excellent app.

00:11:40   But this is one of the features that you need to get absolutely right for people to trust

00:11:46   your app as a task manager.

00:11:48   Yeah.

00:11:49   And we had people writing in pointing out that Fantastical and others may work with

00:11:54   the reminders database and have natural language processing.

00:11:58   I looked at good tasks and they have pretty basic natural language.

00:12:02   But the point is you want to use reminders and Apple's broken it in this weird way.

00:12:07   And even though they know about it, it looks like it's going to stick around for a little while.

00:12:11   Yeah.

00:12:11   Yeah.

00:12:12   So which stinks?

00:12:13   Yeah, it does.

00:12:14   I got some anonymous feedback.

00:12:16   Oh God, I see what it is.

00:12:19   As a repair technician and a two-time Greengate victim, I thought I'd let you know that Apple

00:12:25   recently put out a service note saying that some Apple Watch users are experiencing issues

00:12:29   where display brightness pulses intermittently and/or some complications turn pink and advise

00:12:36   affected users to disable the always on display and to keep watchOS up to date while Apple

00:12:42   investigates the issue.

00:12:43   Pink gate.

00:12:45   Brightness pulsing intermittently gate.

00:12:47   That one doesn't roll off the tongue quite as nice.

00:12:49   No, not as nice.

00:12:51   I love and hate how this person describes themselves as Greengate victim.

00:12:59   Two times.

00:12:59   Two-time Greengate victim.

00:13:04   I am dying to know, was it on two different phones?

00:13:06   Oh yeah.

00:13:07   Was it on a replacement unit that they got?

00:13:10   I would love to know this.

00:13:12   But yeah, Pinkgate.

00:13:15   That's new to me.

00:13:16   I had no idea this was a thing.

00:13:18   Is anyone behind anonymous talking about it anywhere?

00:13:23   This is the first I've seen of it.

00:13:25   Okay.

00:13:26   Because we're breaking news.

00:13:27   You know, that's what people come to the show for.

00:13:29   You're keeping an eye on the display issue segment.

00:13:35   You really carved quite a niche for yourself, Stephen.

00:13:38   Well, I saw, you know, what's his name?

00:13:40   The supply chain person who always knows about display sizes and Ross Young.

00:13:45   Ross Young.

00:13:46   I thought, well, Ross can do it.

00:13:47   I can do it too.

00:13:48   Right.

00:13:49   Coming for you, Ross.

00:13:50   Right.

00:13:51   Right.

00:13:51   This episode of Connected is brought to you by Electric.

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00:15:26   That's electric.ai/connected.

00:15:28   Go there now for your free pair of Beats Solo 3 headphones for scheduling a meeting.

00:15:33   Our thanks to Electric for the support of the show and Relay FM.

00:15:37   Federico, you've got some cool stuff going on over at Club MacStories.

00:15:40   Yeah, I wanted to mention this quickly.

00:15:43   We've never done this before.

00:15:45   This is the first time we're doing this.

00:15:47   We're doing it until the rest of October, until the end of the month.

00:15:52   We're doing this special sort of membership event and discount for Club MacStories.

00:15:57   We realized macOS Sonoma came out last month, and we found ourselves with plenty of time

00:16:03   on our hands, and we figured, hey, why don't we do something pretty cool for the club?

00:16:07   So for the first time ever, we're doing a 20% off discount on any annual Club MacStories

00:16:14   plan.

00:16:15   So very simple, 20% off until the end of the month for Club MacStories annual, Club MacStories

00:16:21   Plus, and Club MacStories Premier.

00:16:23   So that's 20% off any of the three annual plans.

00:16:26   But because we don't just want to ask people for money, I mean, sure, your money goes a

00:16:31   long way to support MacStories and what we do.

00:16:33   It's a relatively small publication, even though we've been expanding and growing.

00:16:38   But we're still a small publication.

00:16:39   Sure, your money helps, but we always love to give people something in return.

00:16:44   And so we're doing a bunch of things here.

00:16:48   We are adding to our growing list of exclusive discounts.

00:16:53   We have quite a list.

00:16:55   John sent me this list of permanent discounts that we have for Club MacStories Plus and

00:17:00   Premier members on all kinds of Mac apps, like the likes of Screens and Ulysses and CleanShot,

00:17:09   Keyboard Master, Lingonex.

00:17:10   We have all kinds of discounts, and we're adding to them.

00:17:15   In addition, we're doing stuff on the Discord, like we're going to do a town hall about HomeKit,

00:17:20   like we're doing some community events there.

00:17:23   But obviously, we are also doing content.

00:17:25   Like we are sort of taking this opportunity to roll out even more content for Club MacStories

00:17:30   Plus and Premier members.

00:17:31   In doing that, John is going to do a new installment of his Macintosh desktop experience column.

00:17:37   But I'm also doing something else, which is my Automation Academy column.

00:17:43   I want to try a slightly different format than what I've done in previous years.

00:17:48   See, the Automation Academy column, I've always thought of it as this sort of master class

00:17:54   about using shortcuts.

00:17:55   And it's still going to be that.

00:17:57   But I think I fell into this trap of thinking that each Automation Academy column needed

00:18:04   to be this massive, groundbreaking, super long sort of class, right?

00:18:12   To teach people a bunch of things and have like 10 different shortcuts examples to download.

00:18:17   And my problem is that I know myself, because I tend to be a perfectionist with these things,

00:18:23   these projects always grew out of scope.

00:18:26   And what started as a relatively simple lesson became this sprawling project, and it became

00:18:32   too complex to manage.

00:18:34   And eventually, I never published those things.

00:18:37   Which, if you think about it, it's pretty counterintuitive because it goes against the

00:18:42   very idea of like, I want to give people more content.

00:18:44   So what I'm going to do, and I have a column ready to go this week, in fact, I want to

00:18:54   have these simpler, more focused lessons about still about advanced shortcuts usage, but

00:19:03   more manageable, more approachable, I think is what I'm going for, to make it more approachable

00:19:09   for people.

00:19:10   So I'm still going to talk about more advanced usage of shortcuts and automations on your

00:19:16   devices, but they're going to be smaller, they're going to be more focused, and they're

00:19:19   going to be hopefully more approachable for people.

00:19:21   And as a result, that should allow me to have more frequent columns, which is what I'm doing

00:19:28   until the end of the month.

00:19:29   And hopefully going forward, instead of having these massive lessons that take months to

00:19:35   put together, I want to be more focused, more approachable, shorter, and more frequent.

00:19:40   And so this week I have this, you're going to like this, Steven, I have this pretty sweet

00:19:44   column about using shortcuts on a Mac mini server with the help of LingonX, the utility

00:19:52   to run shortcuts on a schedule.

00:19:53   So that's something I've prepared.

00:19:56   And I have some other things for later this month and after this month.

00:20:00   So yeah, a special Cloud Maxories event until the end of October, and broadly speaking,

00:20:06   a more approachable automation academy.

00:20:09   That all sounds really good to me.

00:20:10   In just reading along, we haven't really talked about it, but I do think taking the automation

00:20:17   academy and making it more approachable is good.

00:20:20   Because for some people, it may be their first time automating something, right?

00:20:25   We have this kind of challenge on Mac power users where we try to start every episode,

00:20:29   we call it like the ramp, like start simple.

00:20:32   And as the episode goes on, get more complex.

00:20:35   And that's hard to do in writing.

00:20:37   It's easier to do in conversation, I think.

00:20:39   But I think you're thinking about things correctly.

00:20:41   Oh, thank you.

00:20:42   Over the weekend, Mark Gurman published a report and it was information about Apple's

00:20:49   longer term plans for the Vision Pro platform.

00:20:54   And one of those plans, I think is a good one, an obvious one that hey, look, this thing's

00:21:00   going to be really expensive.

00:21:01   Are there ways to make less expensive ones down the road?

00:21:05   And of course, technology always gets cheaper with time.

00:21:08   But it looks like Apple may be trying to shortcut that a little bit.

00:21:12   And one of the things they are talking about is removing the eyesight feature.

00:21:18   So if you remember from WVDC, eyesight is the feature where the screen on the front,

00:21:24   so on the outside of the headset, gives people around you indication of what you're doing.

00:21:30   So if you're fully immersed, it kind of shows that gradient, you know, pretty design.

00:21:34   But if you can see them, then your eyes are shown.

00:21:38   And they're capturing that information initially with like a scan of your face.

00:21:43   And then they're doing eye tracking a bunch of stuff.

00:21:46   And remind me, this was not part of like the demo you got this summer, right?

00:21:51   No, I couldn't see.

00:21:52   I couldn't see the display and I couldn't see what I looked like from the outside.

00:21:59   And I don't recall if I did the...

00:22:03   No, I didn't do the eye scanning for eyesight in the demo.

00:22:07   So we're not sure how effective that is anyways.

00:22:11   So I think it's a little hard to have a conversation about what would it mean to

00:22:15   take away because we don't know what it means to have there.

00:22:18   But we're going to have that conversation anyways.

00:22:20   What are your thoughts on this?

00:22:23   I mean, looking at like the Meta Quest 3 that was just announced and rolled out a couple

00:22:29   of weeks ago, those products and other products in the market, like nothing really has indications

00:22:35   like this of what you're doing because you can't, you know, most of them have no pass through or

00:22:41   very poor pass through.

00:22:43   Nothing at all.

00:22:44   I think what Vision Pro is going to have.

00:22:46   But in your experience with the Vision Pro and other products like this, like, do you

00:22:52   think this is an important thing?

00:22:53   Do you think it's important that people around you know what you're doing?

00:22:56   And if it is, are there ways Apple could do this that don't include this big fancy wraparound

00:23:01   OLED screen?

00:23:02   Yeah, so that's a very good question because I think there's a couple of things to consider

00:23:09   here.

00:23:09   The first one being maybe it's not that additional display with the reproduction of your eyes.

00:23:18   Maybe it's not that useful if you plan on using the Vision Pro mostly by yourself when

00:23:23   no other people are around you.

00:23:26   Like, for example, I know that I'm going to be using the Vision Pro either when Sylvia

00:23:30   is not home or when she's sleeping, right?

00:23:34   That's what I've been doing with the glasses, for example, that I spoke about last week.

00:23:38   So if I'm going to be by myself when I'm using the Vision Pro, what utility is there for

00:23:43   this outer-facing display that shows my eyes, right?

00:23:47   If that display is meant to show your facial expressions to other people, but there are

00:23:51   no other people around you, does it even make sense to have a display?

00:23:55   And the second aspect to consider, I think, is are they going to remove just the eyesight

00:24:02   feature or are they going to remove the outer-facing display altogether?

00:24:08   Because if they are going to remove that display, like if the cheaper version of the Vision

00:24:14   Pro, like, let's say that they come out with an Apple Vision.

00:24:17   It's not called Apple Vision Pro, it's just an Apple Vision.

00:24:19   And it doesn't have the external OLED display.

00:24:24   That's a big reduction in weight, I assume, and, you know, parts of the system that you

00:24:31   no longer need, like you're cutting a display, a whole display, that is actually like a curved

00:24:37   display.

00:24:38   So like, I can imagine that it's quite the internal component you're removing from the

00:24:45   whole unit, right?

00:24:47   So that could help in keeping the cost down and keeping the weight down of the device.

00:24:52   So I think, personally, I think they should do it.

00:24:57   Like, if you're not interested in showing your facial expressions to other people, and

00:25:02   if you plan on using this kind of device by yourself, and if you don't want to sort of

00:25:08   do what Apple's marketing materials do, which is you're the person in a big office, you

00:25:14   know, there's people around you, and you're the guy wearing the Vision Pro and looking

00:25:18   at 3D models while there's other people around you.

00:25:21   Like, if you don't plan on doing that, but honestly, your usage is mostly going to consist

00:25:26   of you sitting on a couch or you in bed watching Foundation or For All Mankind.

00:25:31   Like, yeah, they should remove the display, they should remove that feature and keep the

00:25:36   cost down and keep the weight down if possible.

00:25:39   Yeah, there's conversation in his post as well about, you know, maybe they would move

00:25:43   to a less expensive processor, and I would imagine if you get rid of the second screen

00:25:48   and some of the eye tracking stuff, maybe you don't need as much hardware.

00:25:53   I can't help but think that this eyesight feature, it could be one of those features

00:25:59   that we see in the beginning and then it kind of slowly fades away.

00:26:02   Like, maybe it's enough to have an LED or like some other indication that someone's

00:26:08   kind of paying attention to you through pass-through.

00:26:11   It may be that people find this creepy and unsettling.

00:26:14   It may be that it doesn't work very well.

00:26:16   Like, the thing that's so interesting about this headset is that it is so unlike anything

00:26:21   that Apple or even other companies have done, like, we just don't know.

00:26:25   But I would think that if Apple is considering a model without it, maybe it's not the most

00:26:32   important thing in their minds, right?

00:26:33   Like, in the series of priorities, eyesight must not be the top, at least in some regards

00:26:42   at some people at the company.

00:26:43   If they're thinking, "Hey, this is something we could possibly get rid of down the road."

00:26:47   Yeah, maybe eyesight will turn out to be the digital touch equivalent.

00:26:53   That's right, yeah.

00:26:54   On the Vision Pro.

00:26:55   Like, digital touch, which Steven still likes to use every once in a while on iMessage.

00:27:00   He's the only person I know that still sends, what's it called?

00:27:03   Like, a heartbeat?

00:27:05   What's it called?

00:27:06   Like, a digital tap?

00:27:07   Sometimes I draw little things.

00:27:10   Sometimes I send you, I'm gonna send you my heartbeat right now.

00:27:12   Yeah, thank you.

00:27:13   Thanks for doing that again.

00:27:15   And that was pitched as, like, this big deal for connection and, like, keeping in touch

00:27:21   with others.

00:27:22   Pretty similar, actually, to how eyesight was pitched.

00:27:25   Like, yeah, you can establish this sense of connection with people around you.

00:27:29   But if this Vision Pro turns out to be a device that is mostly, you know, in video game terms,

00:27:35   if this is a single-player device, right, that you just use by yourself when nobody

00:27:40   else is around you, maybe because you are self-conscious, maybe because you don't want

00:27:44   to isolate yourself from, you know, your partner at home, then is there even necessary to have

00:27:50   a display in there?

00:27:51   And I would argue that perhaps what you're suggesting, Steven, is a better approach.

00:27:55   Like, just putting some kind of LED indicator, something similar to the fake display on top

00:28:00   of the HomePod.

00:28:01   Like, just something that tells you, hey, this person is paying attention or this person

00:28:05   is immersed in something else.

00:28:07   Like, maybe that could work.

00:28:09   But I think, yeah, I can see you send me a digital touch message.

00:28:14   Good.

00:28:14   Can I even, can I preview it?

00:28:16   Yeah, I can see your heartbeat on my Mac.

00:28:18   That's good.

00:28:20   Yeah.

00:28:20   Oh, no, you wrote, hey, and then a heartbeat.

00:28:23   Okay, thanks.

00:28:24   Yeah, I think, I hope this report is correct.

00:28:29   And the only question I have is, how long are we going to have to wait for a more affordable

00:28:38   version of the Vision Pro?

00:28:40   Which is a funny thing to say when the Vision Pro is not even out yet.

00:28:44   I know.

00:28:45   But the price just, the price dictates this sort of conversation, right?

00:28:48   Because what is it, 3500 bucks?

00:28:51   It does.

00:28:51   It does.

00:28:52   Are you, I don't think I ever asked you directly this.

00:28:56   Are you going to get a Vision Pro?

00:28:58   I mean, if I have to for the show, then yes, because I'm the only one who lives in America

00:29:03   and if y'all can't source one.

00:29:05   Personally, I'm not that amped about it, but it falls into the, I need it for my work kind

00:29:11   of conversation.

00:29:13   Right.

00:29:14   So yeah, I think so.

00:29:15   I think it's going to be important to talk about it and experience it.

00:29:18   But I was talking with some friends in a Slack yesterday actually, about like, I just, I

00:29:23   did not get a demo.

00:29:25   It's like, I'm like most people.

00:29:27   I find it hard to keep my excitement up about this platform.

00:29:32   And I think one of the reasons is what you just touched on is like, this feels like a

00:29:37   very solitary device.

00:29:39   And look, I work alone in an office, right?

00:29:41   Like no one is here with me, but that's different than like using it in my home.

00:29:46   I don't know.

00:29:47   I just, I just don't know if like the face computer has a place quite yet, but we'll

00:29:53   see.

00:29:53   But yes, I expect that I will.

00:29:55   I will have one.

00:29:55   I have this thought over the past week with these glasses that I'm using.

00:30:01   I'm not using them now in this moment, but with these glasses that I have now and in

00:30:05   the future with the Vision Pro, do I even need this studio display in front of me anymore?

00:30:12   Like, could I imagine a scenario in which I'm sitting at my desk, say like when I'm recording

00:30:18   a podcast, it's not like I can walk around the house or it's not like I can record in

00:30:22   the kitchen when there's, you know, other people around me.

00:30:25   I'm still going to need a room, like an office for me and a desk.

00:30:29   But do I need to have this physical display up on the wall in front of me if the display

00:30:36   is in front of my eyes?

00:30:38   And I think it's not too absurd for me to imagine this scenario, which maybe at some

00:30:44   point next year I will sell my studio display and I will be able to choose between, you

00:30:50   know, this AR glasses if I'm using the iPad Pro or a Vision Pro and just get some work

00:30:55   done with the Vision Pro if I want to be fully immersed and not have the physical limitations

00:31:02   of a 27 inch display.

00:31:03   I don't think it's too wild for me to imagine this possibility.

00:31:08   No, I don't think it is either.

00:31:11   I mean, you're going to have pass-through, you're going to have the ability to beam a

00:31:15   Mac into it.

00:31:16   There's, you know, Google Docs will eventually be in there, maybe.

00:31:19   You have Safari.

00:31:20   I think it's possible.

00:31:23   I don't know if the, I mean, I guess if you're at your desk, you could be plugged into power

00:31:29   so the battery life's not an issue, but there may be some fatigue issues to deal with, but

00:31:33   I don't think it's impossible.

00:31:36   Yeah, it's going to be a while before I sell my display, but we'll see.

00:31:41   But I don't mind the idea of, you know, removing footprint from your life by getting rid of

00:31:49   external monitors and just using a device where the monitor is in front of your eyes.

00:31:54   And in fact, even a bigger one.

00:31:56   This episode of Connected is brought to you by CleanMyMac X.

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00:33:23   While we're talking about possible future products, there's also a story out today.

00:33:29   According to DigiTimes, a foldable iPad is in "intensive development."

00:33:36   I want to read you a little bit from Hartley's article over on MacRumors.

00:33:40   Apple has apparently been working on foldable products for four years and continuously made

00:33:47   design changes in this time frame.

00:33:49   So this is talking about the last couple of years they've been working on this.

00:33:52   This is what's most interesting.

00:33:54   Planning to release a foldable iPad before working on a foldable iPhone.

00:33:59   Apple chose to focus on the iPad because it makes a comparatively small proportion of

00:34:03   the company's sales mean that potential issues are easier to manage and less impactful.

00:34:09   The report goes on to say that the design is not yet finalized.

00:34:13   The product design team apparently is not in charge of this, but now it's in an operations

00:34:17   and procurement department to help bring down costs.

00:34:21   We've talked about foldables a lot.

00:34:24   Mike has had a couple and you've experimented with different tablets and different form

00:34:31   factors.

00:34:32   What do you think about the potential of a foldable iPad and does it feel like something

00:34:37   that 24 or 25 could bring?

00:34:39   I am so into this idea.

00:34:43   I love it and I hope Apple does it because I can tell you firsthand, Steven, that this

00:34:51   is a lovely idea.

00:34:53   In fact, I'm going to spring a surprise on you.

00:34:55   You don't know that I did this and I saved what I did for at some point, I guess, in

00:35:03   the future when I talked about this.

00:35:05   Let's see how I can frame this.

00:35:10   So if you recall my six months in Windows wilderness, right, when I was so disappointed

00:35:18   with stage manager on the iPad that it sort of upended my life and I started questioning

00:35:24   every single aspect of my tech workflow and my technological choices.

00:35:29   I spoke about this on the show.

00:35:31   I explained how for six months I used a Microsoft Surface as my main computer and then when

00:35:40   stage manager was fixed in iPadOS 17WWC, I stopped and I went back to the iPad full time.

00:35:45   But there was another device that I used in those six months and that I never told you

00:35:52   guys about.

00:35:54   I got late last year, actually I think it was the beginning of January, I got one of

00:36:01   those foldable Asus tablet PCs.

00:36:05   Whoa.

00:36:06   I believe, and I'm trying to remember the name, I have the Asus Zenfold, I want to say.

00:36:17   Yeah, I have the Asus Zenbook Fold 17 inch OLED computer.

00:36:24   This thing is $3,500.

00:36:26   It's for my work, right?

00:36:28   Yeah, we just talked about that price of the Vision Pro.

00:36:31   You just mentioned it, you just literally just said it, okay?

00:36:35   So it can also be for my work.

00:36:37   The Asus Zenbook 17 Fold, this device for what it does is incredible, again, big asterisk

00:36:48   for what it does and for what it is.

00:36:50   And it convinced me that as soon as Apple makes a foldable computer, I am so in and

00:36:59   ready to give them my money.

00:37:02   This computer, as a computer, this thing is very, very early stages.

00:37:07   Imagine a very thick tablet with a crease in the middle, fans in it because it's running

00:37:15   Windows, right?

00:37:16   Right.

00:37:17   So it's not as portable as an iPad, it's plasticky, there's a crease that you can feel

00:37:25   in the middle of the display and I'm not using it as my main computer whatsoever.

00:37:32   But I did for a few months.

00:37:35   In fact, it's got Thunderbolt and at some point I was recording shows and I never told

00:37:40   you about this.

00:37:41   I was recording shows with this computer in front of me going from the Zenbook Fold to

00:37:46   the CalDigit TS4 dock because it's all Thunderbolt and it doesn't matter.

00:37:52   But the thing is, when you unfold it, you have a 17-inch OLED monitor in front of you

00:37:59   with a built-in kickstand.

00:38:00   Oh, that's what sold you.

00:38:02   Come on.

00:38:03   Yeah, yes.

00:38:04   But because it's a foldable computer, it can take on to these different form factors.

00:38:11   For example, you can fold it close and carry it with you in a bag and it becomes the size

00:38:19   of, again, a very thick, because now you have two sides closed on top of each other, but

00:38:25   it's almost the size of a 12-inch computer.

00:38:28   When you fold it close, it's very compact and very small, but quite heavy for sure.

00:38:35   There's a keyboard, right?

00:38:37   There's a keyboard accessory that you can place in two different modes.

00:38:42   If you're using the computer fully unfolded in front of you with a kickstand to prop it

00:38:49   up, the keyboard is Bluetooth, so you can just use the keyboard with trackpad in front

00:38:54   of you and you're using a pointer and you're typing.

00:38:57   It's just like using a magic keyboard.

00:38:58   However, you can sort of unfold the device and place the keyboard on the lower half of

00:39:07   the display.

00:39:08   Does it have magnets or something?

00:39:10   Or does it just sit there?

00:39:11   It has magnets.

00:39:13   The computer recognizes that you placed the keyboard on the lower half of the display

00:39:18   and it just shows you stuff, just shows you windows on the upper half of the display.

00:39:26   It's wild.

00:39:28   Like, this whole thing, again, it's very expensive.

00:39:34   It runs hot.

00:39:35   It's heavy.

00:39:37   It's plasticky.

00:39:38   There's a crease that, like, all the negative aspects of an early product you can think

00:39:44   of, there are in this device.

00:39:48   But if you can set aside those early product problems and consider how you have a foldable

00:40:02   17-inch device that you can place on your lap and you can fold and you can place a keyboard

00:40:08   in front of it or you can prop it up with a kickstand or you can place the keyboard

00:40:12   on the display itself, it's wild.

00:40:16   And the moment Apple can make an iPad, like, when I was using this device, so many times

00:40:22   I thought, give me an iPad that is a better version of this, right?

00:40:28   Like, imagine an iPad that was this big, but it can also become smaller with a keyboard

00:40:35   that I can place in front of it or on it and it recognizes what I'm doing.

00:40:42   I am so into this idea of a foldable tablet.

00:40:47   And yeah, that was actually the last surprise that I saved from my wilderness era from last

00:40:56   year.

00:40:57   And finally, I had the opportunity to talk about it.

00:40:59   I should send you pictures after the show.

00:41:01   Yeah, I'd like to see that.

00:41:03   Are you more interested in an iPad that folds in half like this or a phone?

00:41:07   I mean, this report says Apple--

00:41:09   No, an iPad, for sure.

00:41:10   Like, I think that's where I end up too.

00:41:13   And again, I don't have any first-hand experience with either form factor.

00:41:16   This is relatively uninformed hot take, but I use my phone so much, I feel like unfolding

00:41:23   it and folding it or using a smaller outside screen is a bit of a bummer.

00:41:27   But if I can have something the size of an iPad mini that opens up in the size of an

00:41:30   iPad Pro, that's pretty cool.

00:41:33   Think about it for, well, I was just on vacation.

00:41:38   I could put that in a small beach bag and take it with me and have something bigger

00:41:41   to read on at the beach.

00:41:43   That is much more enticing to me than a phone.

00:41:46   Yeah, I agree.

00:41:48   I agree.

00:41:48   The idea of having exactly what you said.

00:41:53   Like, imagine an iPad mini-like screen for-- you know, you want to read a book or you want

00:41:59   to catch up on your RSS or whatever.

00:42:03   A reading device that can transform into a portable laptop device, I find that so fascinating

00:42:12   as an option.

00:42:13   Also, because like this Asus device that I have, it was very much only designed for laptop

00:42:20   usage, right?

00:42:21   You can use it as a tablet if you want to, but imagine holding a 17-inch.

00:42:30   It weighs almost two kilograms, I think, this thing.

00:42:33   You can use it as a tablet, but it sucks as a tablet.

00:42:38   And you know that if Apple's going to do it, they're going to make it much lighter, and

00:42:41   it's going to run iPadOS.

00:42:43   It's not going to run Windows.

00:42:44   It's not going to need fans inside to keep it cool.

00:42:47   Yeah, it's going to be elegant.

00:42:50   It's going to be elegant, and they're going to have those sort of Apple smarts where maybe

00:42:57   the text, which whether you're using, like if they're going to do a product with an outer

00:43:03   facing folding system, maybe it's going to detect, hey, are you using the outer display?

00:43:07   Are you looking at it?

00:43:08   Do you want to use it as an iPad Mini?

00:43:10   And then when you fold it open, the whole size class system of iPadOS is going to turn

00:43:15   on.

00:43:15   It's going to be like, OK, now you want to use it in laptop mode.

00:43:18   I can imagine all those things that Apple can do.

00:43:21   And it sounds like Apple is also concerned about, obviously, with the foldable display,

00:43:26   the key issue is the folding system, the hinges and the crease in the middle.

00:43:31   So I don't know if it's technically possible today to make a foldable display where you

00:43:38   don't feel the crease in the middle of the thing.

00:43:41   But hey, I am convinced that if there's a company that can make it happen, it's Apple.

00:43:47   With the expertise that they have in tablets, I mean, they've been working on tablets for

00:43:52   almost 20 years at this point.

00:43:54   If you consider the development time for the iPhone leading up to Apple, to Steve Jobs

00:44:00   choosing to put the tablet project on a shelf and work on a phone, they've been working

00:44:05   on touch screens for well over 20 years, I bet, at this point.

00:44:09   So if there's a company with the knowledge and expertise and quality control to make

00:44:14   this happen, I am convinced it's Apple.

00:44:17   And to be fair, this is the device of my dreams, like a foldable iPad made by Apple.

00:44:23   I am, to be honest, I am more excited about that than maybe a Vision Pro.

00:44:29   Or maybe equally excited, but it is my dream device at this point.

00:44:34   We had some big news out of Cupertino this week.

00:44:36   Apple has announced a new Apple Pencil.

00:44:39   Features include USB-C charging and magnetic attachment to the sides of iPads, but does

00:44:49   not have wireless charging, and it does not have pressure sensitivity.

00:44:55   Now the trade-off is this thing's $79.

00:44:59   So it's the cheapest one.

00:45:02   I think the product it's sort of designed to work with best is the 10th generation iPad.

00:45:08   Remember, that came out exactly a year ago.

00:45:10   It has the camera on the long side, and so there's not wireless charging there for the

00:45:17   Pencil, and so you had to have a generation one Apple Pencil with lightning, you had to

00:45:22   have a USB-C to lightning dongle.

00:45:24   This gets rid of all of that.

00:45:26   This does not plug into the USB-C port, which is kind of what I thought they might do, just

00:45:31   like Apple kind of being the cheapest thing they could do.

00:45:34   But the cap slides up, and best I can tell, it doesn't come off.

00:45:41   Like it's spring-loaded somehow, or on rails or something.

00:45:44   And there is a receiving USB-C port like in the side of the Pencil.

00:45:50   So you need a USB-C cable, which is not in the box, but you probably have a bunch laying

00:45:53   around to charge this thing.

00:45:55   There's a chart and the press release, which is wild.

00:45:59   Like I don't think I've seen that in a long time, but I think this is clearly like the

00:46:04   kind of the entry-level Pencil.

00:46:07   What do you think about this?

00:46:09   I kind of like it.

00:46:11   I mean, yes, the lineup is confusing.

00:46:14   And yes, it's gonna stay confusing until we completely get rid of lightning, right?

00:46:22   And I continue to think that there's way too many options in the iPad.

00:46:30   I'm not talking about the Apple Pencil here.

00:46:31   There's way too many options in the iPad lineup.

00:46:34   There's way too many overlap between base model iPad, iPad Air, and iPad Pro.

00:46:39   Even if we set aside the iPad mini, which is living a life of its own.

00:46:43   But it's just out there having a good time by itself.

00:46:46   The iPad mini is just chilling there, being like, "I'm minding my own business.

00:46:49   I'm a mini tablet," whatever.

00:46:51   But the other three are like fighting for, to an extent, they're fighting for the same

00:46:57   space in users' workflows.

00:47:01   And I do believe that Apple needs to simplify the message there.

00:47:05   And maybe we are living in this transitional phase for the iPad lineup.

00:47:10   We just spoke about a folding iPad.

00:47:12   Maybe this period of time will make sense two years from now.

00:47:18   But right now it's confusing.

00:47:19   But for the Apple Pencil, so there's an Apple Pencil second generation, which is the more

00:47:25   expensive one, which has more features.

00:47:27   And there's this new basic model that has USB-C.

00:47:31   You know, they gotta do it, right?

00:47:32   They're moving away from lightning.

00:47:33   They gotta do a USB-C device.

00:47:36   And it doesn't have all the features of the more expensive one.

00:47:38   I guess with the exception of hover on iPad Pro, which that is the odd one sticking out

00:47:46   for me.

00:47:46   Like it doesn't have wireless charging.

00:47:49   It doesn't have pressure sensitivity.

00:47:51   But it does have hover for the iPad Pro, which I find strange.

00:47:55   But it's a base model pencil that I can imagine will replace the lightning version.

00:48:04   I think for educational use cases or for just people who don't want to have pressure sensitivity

00:48:11   or don't want to pay for it or don't want to pay for it.

00:48:14   This makes sense.

00:48:15   I think the cap that slides off and sort of slides up and reveals a USB-C connector feels

00:48:23   like a more elegant design to me than plugging the lightning connector of a pencil into an

00:48:29   iPad and holding the thing, you know, by the pencil as we've seen the memes.

00:48:34   Over the years, I think I like it and it makes sense for me.

00:48:39   Yeah, I think it is too.

00:48:41   I think the second you think about it as this is going to replace the lightning pencil,

00:48:46   which is still for sale because there's a bajillion lightning iPads around and the ninth

00:48:50   generation iPad, which I had forgotten about, is still for sale.

00:48:54   That's the home button lightning design.

00:48:58   It's really like the iPad Air design that the old iPad Air design.

00:49:02   The 10th gen is the more modern, you know, flat sides rounded corners.

00:49:08   So I think given that this pencil makes sense and I do think you are right that it really

00:49:14   just points to there's just a lot of iPads right now.

00:49:17   And I would be much happier if the 10th generation one was starting at $329 and not $449.

00:49:26   And there was a bigger gap between it and the iPad Air because those are only those are

00:49:30   only $150 apart and you go from A14 to the M1 and you get some other nicer things.

00:49:37   But they both have USB-C.

00:49:38   They both have touch ID in the top button.

00:49:40   They both have stereo speakers.

00:49:42   They both have Wi-Fi 6 like with F5G.

00:49:45   They're very similar.

00:49:47   And I just I think it's just kind of confusing, but the pencil is like a reflection of what's

00:49:53   going on in the iPad lineup itself in a way.

00:49:55   Yeah, I think that's right.

00:49:59   Everything is a little confusing right now.

00:50:01   I am very keen to see what they do with the iPad Air refresh and if that will help us

00:50:09   make sense of what's coming next.

00:50:11   There have been rumors of Apple introducing an even bigger iPad Air and I do wonder if

00:50:18   that's a tell for the future of the iPad Pro.

00:50:22   If they introduce two versions of the iPad Air, one is 10 inches and the other is 13

00:50:27   inches, I think that pretty much tells us that they're going to get rid of the 11-inch

00:50:32   iPad Pro and do 13-inch iPad Pro and bigger, maybe foldable, maybe not, but bigger iPad

00:50:39   Pro next year.

00:50:40   So yeah, we continue to be in this weird phase for the iPad.

00:50:47   It's a phase, you know, we've all had it, you know, growing up and it'll pass.

00:50:53   But right now, right now they're also asking for money to people, you know, it's a phase

00:50:57   that costs money and it is challenging to make a definitive recommendation if you want

00:51:06   to buy an iPad and you want to buy a pencil, that's for sure.

00:51:08   It really is.

00:51:10   I mean, really, I think the question is what's your budget?

00:51:12   Because they're all capable, like even the 9th and 10th gen, which run on the A13 and

00:51:18   A14, like totally fine for what a lot of people do on an iPad, right?

00:51:22   Totally fine.

00:51:23   And I think the iPad Air is maybe the default, but that's kind of hard to say with the 10th

00:51:31   gen there.

00:51:32   But I do agree with you, that 11-inch iPad Pro is like, what is it doing?

00:51:37   It really feels like it's not long from this world.

00:51:39   I think it's a little bit of a bummer that it does not have magnetic, you know, charging

00:51:44   that you've got to plug it in.

00:51:46   But that 10th gen, because they put the camera on the long side, so it's in the right place

00:51:50   when you're in a keyboard case, that makes it incompatible with charging on the side.

00:51:55   And that is still a problem that we don't know how Apple is going to solve, right?

00:51:59   When hopefully that camera moves to that position on the iPad Pros and the other iPads down

00:52:04   the road, assuming that it does, they still have to work out where the pencil is going

00:52:08   to go.

00:52:09   Because if you're in a keyboard dock, the left hand side has your volume and your top

00:52:17   button.

00:52:17   And then you have, or the buttons on the corner, I guess on some of them too.

00:52:21   But then you have the long top edge, which has the camera now where the pencil used to

00:52:26   go.

00:52:27   The right hand side is USB-C port, the left side is attached to the keyboard case.

00:52:31   Like where does the pencil go?

00:52:32   I'm hopeful they work out a way to have the camera and that charging all up there together.

00:52:38   And maybe it just wasn't ready for the 10th gen or maybe it was too expensive for the

00:52:42   10th gen.

00:52:43   I can't imagine Apple saying, okay, all pencils in the future, you have to use a cable.

00:52:47   Like that's not what they want.

00:52:48   I think this is a compromise to bring the price down to make it work with the widest

00:52:53   number of iPads possible.

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00:55:24   So to close out the show, Steven, I had an idea.

00:55:28   Given that it's just you and me, there's no mic, we can let our imagination

00:55:32   run wild.

00:55:34   That's right.

00:55:34   He holds us down.

00:55:35   He holds us back.

00:55:36   He holds back our creativity, I think.

00:55:40   What is that old Kanye tweet?

00:55:42   It's like you have, you've distracted from my creative process.

00:55:45   Yes.

00:55:46   Yes.

00:55:48   Many, many, many years ago.

00:55:49   So, but no, seriously, Mike doesn't, Mike doesn't hold us back, but still, I figured,

00:55:54   hey, it's fun to, you know, to, to imagine things with Steven.

00:55:59   And my pitch to you was, let's do a segment where the idea is if we could redesign one

00:56:07   Apple accessory now, which one would we pick and why?

00:56:13   So I was thinking about, I know we were going to talk about the Apple Pencil, and I thought,

00:56:17   yeah, that's, you know, I have thoughts about Apple accessories, but if I were at Apple

00:56:22   and I was in, imagine if I was put in charge of, like, Tim Cook comes to you and it's like,

00:56:28   I'm going to give you the power to redesign one accessory.

00:56:31   Now, which one would it be?

00:56:34   And now, of course, I came up with the idea and I decided that I was immediately going to cheat

00:56:39   by picking not one, but two accessories because I can help myself.

00:56:45   I mean, let's face it, I have a very long list of accessories that I would do differently,

00:56:50   right, from what they are today.

00:56:51   Could be the design of the magic keyboard on the iPad, the magic mouse.

00:56:57   I mean, that thing is wild that it still exists.

00:57:01   The real situation over there in magic mouseland.

00:57:03   MagSafe accessories.

00:57:06   Let's not even talk about those.

00:57:07   The fine woven case, but no, no, no, just I have one, which is actually a combo pick, I guess.

00:57:14   I'm going to keep it simple.

00:57:15   Magic keyboard and magic trackpad.

00:57:17   The Mac versions?

00:57:18   The Mac versions.

00:57:19   Okay.

00:57:20   Yes, the Mac versions.

00:57:22   There's one thing, no, two things that I would do differently with these devices.

00:57:29   The most important one is that I think I mentioned this in App Stories a while back.

00:57:35   I do think that at some point Apple should make a version of the desktop magic keyboard,

00:57:44   a magic trackpad, that have the same switching technology of AirPods.

00:57:52   So you know how you can buy a single pair of AirPods and they get sort of signed into your

00:57:57   iCloud account and then from control center or whatever, from the menu bar on the Mac,

00:58:02   for example, you can switch, you can use those AirPods, that single pair of AirPods

00:58:09   with any Apple device, right?

00:58:11   You just, you know, you just see them.

00:58:13   And in fact, there's even automatic switching now, depending on the device you're using,

00:58:19   the automatic switching is even better in iOS 17 and Mac OS Sonoma.

00:58:23   I want that, but for the keyboard and trackpad, so that I can buy and have on my desk a single

00:58:32   set of magic keyboard and trackpad, use them with my MacBook Air or use them with my iPad Pro.

00:58:41   And that's all I want.

00:58:43   Have the same technology like, I don't know, let me see them from control center, right?

00:58:49   Like I can with AirPods, for example.

00:58:51   We spoke about this before.

00:58:54   If you want to do this today, you got to have two sets of magic keyboard and trackpad.

00:59:00   Yeah.

00:59:01   There's no multi-device pairing for these devices.

00:59:05   And I will go even deeper here actually and say the magic keyboard and trackpad should

00:59:11   support the sort of iCloud based exclusive switching if you're using Apple products,

00:59:18   but they should also support proper Bluetooth multi-point if you want to use them with something else.

00:59:24   Yeah.

00:59:25   So say, for example, you want to use, I don't know, your magic keyboard with your Mac or

00:59:30   your Steam Deck or whatever.

00:59:32   And the second feature, which is a smaller one, but for the desktop magic keyboard, I

00:59:37   never recall because I haven't been using that thing for a few months.

00:59:41   Is it backlit?

00:59:42   It is not backlit, nor does it have the good arrow keys that the laptops have.

00:59:47   The arrow keys are still bad.

00:59:48   There you go.

00:59:49   I make it backlit.

00:59:51   I mean, come on.

00:59:52   I'm using this lovely Logi keyboard right now.

00:59:56   It lets me pair with up to three devices at once, and it's got a sensor in it so that

01:00:00   when I rest my hands on it and the room is dim, it lights up and the magic keyboard should

01:00:06   do the same.

01:00:07   Yeah.

01:00:07   That's the combo of accessories, if I were in charge, that I would redesign.

01:00:12   I've got one thing that I would add to this, and you can do it with a $39 product.

01:00:18   But if you had this sort of setup, one thing that may be nice would be a way to join the

01:00:25   keyboard and trackpad.

01:00:27   Yeah.

01:00:27   Like maybe you're using it with something hooked up to your TV.

01:00:29   And I just had a brainwave, remembering this feature called the-- or this product called

01:00:35   Magic Bridge.

01:00:36   And it's basically this backbone type thing you pop your keyboard and trackpad into, and

01:00:41   then you could use it on your lap, on the couch, or whatever.

01:00:44   And something like that would be really sweet with what you're describing, making these

01:00:49   more flexible when you've got multiple devices.

01:00:52   What would you redesign, Steven?

01:00:55   Well, I'm going to bend the question a little bit, because Mike can't hold us down and you

01:01:00   can't hold me down.

01:01:01   Sure.

01:01:02   Bring back AirPort products, you cowards.

01:01:04   Ah.

01:01:05   Yes.

01:01:08   They discontinued it years ago, and that was after, honestly, years of letting them basically

01:01:15   just sit there.

01:01:16   We had the AirPort Express, the AirPort Extreme, the Time Capsule.

01:01:19   Wi-Fi has changed a lot since then, right?

01:01:22   A lot of people, including, I think, me and you and Mike, are running multi-access point

01:01:27   setups.

01:01:28   I have an Eero setup in my house.

01:01:30   What are you using at home?

01:01:31   I have the Eero Pro 6.

01:01:33   OK.

01:01:34   Did you-- was it John?

01:01:35   Somebody was using the Orbi one for a while.

01:01:38   I was using the Orbi before.

01:01:40   These multi-point systems are fantastic.

01:01:43   And the irony is, Apple was doing that 15 years ago.

01:01:46   You could get to AirPort Extremes, or an AirPort Extreme, and AirPort Express, and extend your

01:01:51   network.

01:01:52   Now, it didn't work very well.

01:01:54   Today, these things are really smart.

01:01:55   I mean, the Eeros are basically little computers inside, right?

01:01:58   They definitely get hot enough like they're a little computer.

01:02:01   But I think Apple could really make something nice that's easy to manage, and could make

01:02:10   the home security stuff a lot better.

01:02:13   There is HomeKit for routers, and you can turn it on on Eero and some other products.

01:02:18   I'm unclear on what that actually does.

01:02:21   But our homes are not getting less smart over time.

01:02:25   They're getting more smart.

01:02:27   And it seems like something Apple could do and do well.

01:02:31   And look, prices have gone up, right?

01:02:33   Like a set of the Eero Pros, it's an expensive purchase.

01:02:37   And Apple likes having expensive purchases for people to make.

01:02:40   I just wish they had stayed in it.

01:02:42   And it's not because I'm unhappy with my Eeros.

01:02:44   I'm actually very happy with them.

01:02:46   But it's such a big market, and Apple just left it.

01:02:53   And in its day, a bunch of people were running airports.

01:02:56   Right?

01:02:56   A lot of people just want to go to the Apple store and get everything together.

01:03:00   They know it's all going to work nicely together.

01:03:02   And the reason this is on my mind is just last weekend, I was visiting somebody, and

01:03:08   they're still running an airport as their Wi-Fi.

01:03:10   And they got a small house, so they don't need multiple access points.

01:03:13   They've had this thing for a million years.

01:03:15   And it's still like running perfectly.

01:03:18   And they're running Sonoma and like, you know, iOS 17.

01:03:21   And it's all still just fine.

01:03:24   And it really made me miss really how good they were in their day.

01:03:30   They weren't perfect.

01:03:31   They were expensive.

01:03:32   There were other options.

01:03:33   But especially if you consider it, or if you factor in time capsule where you could have

01:03:38   a hard drive in there for file sharing or for remote time machine backup, that's easier

01:03:44   to do now than it used to be.

01:03:45   But it was also really simple just to have your router have a hard drive in it or attached

01:03:51   to it.

01:03:52   You could have any printer be wireless, like so many good ideas.

01:03:56   Apple really fleshed out on the airport line over the years.

01:03:59   And I think they still have more to give in that area if they wanted to.

01:04:05   I love this pick.

01:04:05   I agree with you.

01:04:08   That's a good one.

01:04:08   That's a very good one.

01:04:09   I shouldn't have to buy an Amazon device or a Netgear device to manage my Wi-Fi at home.

01:04:19   I used to have an AirPod Express.

01:04:21   I loved it, and I miss it every day.

01:04:24   And the Eero is pretty good.

01:04:26   I mean, I really like the Eero system.

01:04:28   It's the best one I've tried of all systems.

01:04:30   And all the new ones are managed by an iOS app.

01:04:35   Yeah, it's very nicely done.

01:04:36   Airport was doing that too.

01:04:37   They had a Mac app, and they made an iPhone app.

01:04:39   So many things we see in residential or prosumer wireless stuff, Apple was doing before almost

01:04:49   anyone.

01:04:50   And I just think they'd be really good at it still.

01:04:55   It bums me out.

01:04:57   Yeah.

01:04:57   Well, I think that does it for this week.

01:04:59   If you want to find links to the stuff we spoke about, check them out in your podcast

01:05:03   player.

01:05:04   They're also on the web at relay.fm/connected/472.

01:05:08   There you can submit feedback or follow up.

01:05:12   There's a form there that your data can be anonymous.

01:05:15   There's a button there if you don't want us to know your name or your email address.

01:05:18   It can be all anonymous to us.

01:05:20   And that all gets collected, and we look through it before each episode.

01:05:24   You can also join and get connected pro for just $5 a month.

01:05:28   That is an ad free longer version of the show.

01:05:31   This week, Federico and I spoke about the analog 3D, the analogs upcoming Nintendo 64

01:05:37   product that we are both maximally hyped for.

01:05:40   Is that fair?

01:05:41   Are we maximally hyped?

01:05:42   I think so, yes.

01:05:43   I put my email in that form.

01:05:45   So before I read the web page, I saw a link on the Verge or whatever.

01:05:49   I clicked it.

01:05:50   Before I read it, I gave him my email address.

01:05:51   Please let me know when I can give you money.

01:05:53   Yep.

01:05:54   You can find us online.

01:05:56   You can find Federico.

01:05:57   He's the editor in chief of maxstories.net.

01:06:00   Some really great stuff going on on Max Stories.

01:06:03   I have sent to my Relator app the recent article about Apple's Translate app, which I honestly

01:06:12   forget exists.

01:06:13   And I think that's one of the points of the article.

01:06:15   So yes, that's going to be good.

01:06:18   You can find Federico on Mastodon at vatici at maxstories.net.

01:06:22   Mike isn't here, but you can find him on other shows here on Relay FM.

01:06:28   He is iMike at mike.social on Mastodon and iMike on Threads.

01:06:33   And send him your favorite song that has a mineral or a-- what was it?

01:06:37   A mineral or a--

01:06:39   A metal.

01:06:39   A metal in the title.

01:06:42   That's what we came up with for some reason.

01:06:45   You can find me on MacPowerUsers every Sunday here on Relay FM and my writing over at 512pixels.net.

01:06:51   I want to thank our sponsors this week, Electric, CleanMyMac X, and NetSuite.

01:06:56   Until next time, Federico, say goodbye.

01:06:59   Adios, adios.