00:05:06 ◼ ► That is, I would say the one of the very few, this is a very good news day for Mac fans.
00:24:50 ◼ ► I'm like, I really don't notice any difference between the performance between the two at
00:25:04 ◼ ► Like that's what I'm going to need on that machine, whether I'm going to use it or not.
00:27:06 ◼ ► Before we leave the point, I do think though, it exemplifies the fact that you can now buy
00:35:27 ◼ ► I got, I have another complaint and I think it might be the single most surprising news of the day.
00:35:42 ◼ ► And that is the fact that the keyboard, mouse and trackpad with the iMac are still, they're
00:35:51 ◼ ► But what, what the actual, like, tell me you don't care about the 24 inch iMac without telling
00:36:02 ◼ ► I don't think I, and I, I've been writing about the fact that that, that those regulations
00:36:24 ◼ ► And the fact that it just is nice having everything USB-C and then you can just have, like with
00:36:45 ◼ ► just one dedicated cable that just sits there and I can put my AirPods case in now with
00:37:01 ◼ ► my lightning cable to plug in my Magic Trackpad because I just realized that like the battery
00:37:07 ◼ ► But I do, I have like two things coming from that, like one, you know, for USB-C and one
00:38:11 ◼ ► And then I realized I was in Washington, D.C. with a friend of mine and I realized, oh,
00:38:17 ◼ ► So Aaron needs a pair of AirPods, so I'm going to give these to her and then that's my excuse
00:38:23 ◼ ► But like it's annoying to me that they just make the move because it's not like they can't
00:38:36 ◼ ► It just seems very strange and with the iPhone moving from lightning to USB-C is the flagship
00:39:07 ◼ ► Because they also, those AirPods Pro also uniquely have the upcoming ability to do lossless
00:39:27 ◼ ► I think there's like one tenth of one percent of human beings who could hear the difference
00:39:48 ◼ ► You kind of want, if you spent 250 bucks on your wireless AirPods Pro, you kind of want
00:39:57 ◼ ► I can't believe that this is not the debut of the Magic Keyboard, Magic Trackpad, Magic
00:40:27 ◼ ► and seeing people's predictions and everybody's prediction included new peripherals with USB-C.
00:40:36 ◼ ► And it's annoying because presumably there will hopefully, hopefully one day be a larger
00:41:23 ◼ ► And then it was, they kind of came back and it was one of those, it wasn't quite as big
00:41:28 ◼ ► as the Mac Pro, mea culpa, but they kind of did like a, hey, we took, you know, as close
00:41:43 ◼ ► I remember hearing about like people who do the audio for concerts who love the Mac mini
00:42:20 ◼ ► The iMac is obviously near and dear to Apple's heart because, you know, we just sell them,
00:42:34 ◼ ► So some, it's obviously worth still making, but it was also not worth having an M2 generation.
00:42:46 ◼ ► Everybody's happy because it is the most colorful product left in Apple's entire lineup of all
00:43:22 ◼ ► Look, I still think that for a lot of people, like you would, it's similar to the MacBook
00:43:27 ◼ ► Air, like depending on what you need, you'd probably be better off getting a well-specced
00:43:45 ◼ ► I know they care about the iMac, but I'm really, really hoping, because I love the iMac.
00:44:29 ◼ ► Yeah, but the only thing is that it's not a pro or a max because that's still the maximum
00:44:35 ◼ ► Like for that M3, it is basically the same as like what it was for the base level, like
00:44:57 ◼ ► I think you're better off maybe again, looking at this, which I think is what they want,
00:45:21 ◼ ► In those three minutes, I think they mentioned at least three times that 24 inches is the
00:46:03 ◼ ► Everybody knows, everybody who's ever bought a computer knows that, okay, once you're talking
00:46:53 ◼ ► point of their repeated insistence that this is a great display, no matter which old iMac
00:47:11 ◼ ► I interpret it as meaning if you want an all-in-one iMac, I hope you like 24 inches because that's
00:47:29 ◼ ► And my personal opinion as a nerd who loves to offer my opinion solicited or unsolicited
00:47:55 ◼ ► So getting a studio display now, even though the studio display has been out for a while,
00:48:02 ◼ ► You can, or if you want to buy a third party, I know there's more 5k options out there.
00:48:10 ◼ ► I love the nano texture thing, which is expensive, but it solves all of these incredibly harsh
00:48:34 ◼ ► And then I have an expensive monitor arm because I prefer that because that way I can actually
00:48:42 ◼ ► That is annoying to me that for the price they charge, that you have to make your decision
00:49:17 ◼ ► I use the trick that you use where I got the smart plug so that I can actually power cycle
00:50:19 ◼ ► out and just bought whatever the then current, I don't know if they were still in the M1
00:50:31 ◼ ► And then you could, I know M3 Mac minis aren't out yet, but you could upgrade next year when
00:50:49 ◼ ► And that was the one thing we lost when we went from the regular to the retina IMAX was
00:50:55 ◼ ► that the way that they could do the doubling, they had to get rid of target display mode.
00:50:58 ◼ ► And that had been great with the previous IMAX because you could use them like as a, as a
00:51:06 ◼ ► And so I think that is a great point from a, just a value perspective, having them separate.
00:51:17 ◼ ► Like if I were to do it tomorrow, like if I were actually going to replace the completely
00:51:22 ◼ ► maxed out Intel iMac that I have that I bought in 2020, even though I knew when I bought
00:51:45 ◼ ► But if I were to do that again, I would absolutely have either like a Mac studio or Mac mini
00:52:15 ◼ ► Like I've almost bought one a few times that I have no need for and that I can't even justify
00:52:24 ◼ ► And that's where I will, like, I can convince myself to buy a black laptop, but I can't
00:53:35 ◼ ► So I know they make them, I probably, I should look into the Bluetooth, but I have a cassette
00:53:40 ◼ ► tape that you put in the tape deck and then there's a wire that comes out of it and you
00:53:45 ◼ ► But I realized only when I had to drive somewhere like a week and a half ago, oh shit, I have
00:53:53 ◼ ► And it was like one of the few times I was like, oh, I thought I got rid of all the lightning
00:54:29 ◼ ► I hope and look, although to go back to MacBook Pro, like we got black, which I realized is
00:54:54 ◼ ► I mean, for aluminum, that's probably, they're probably getting as dark as they can get because
00:55:22 ◼ ► That thing was great, but that thing, speak, talk about things that like developed kind
00:55:38 ◼ ► That was the last year that I was part of the review program because after that, I switched
00:55:46 ◼ ► And so we had to like pay to get it repaired and whatnot because I was like, this is checked
00:56:21 ◼ ► The regular M3, not pro, but the regular M3, this has eight CPU cores, four performance,
00:57:06 ◼ ► I guess the idea is if you're in the market for Max, you really are hunting high performance,
00:58:09 ◼ ► But I have noticed like even taking out that sort of thing, I did have to say like my anecdotal
00:58:38 ◼ ► And I kind of asked about that and it's like, again, you don't get a square answer from
00:59:59 ◼ ► And then to make things weirder too, then at the first level of M3 Max, if you do the 14
01:00:31 ◼ ► That is the interesting thing there too, is that if you want to get the 96 gigabytes of
01:00:39 ◼ ► So your options, really, if you're going to get the high end M3 Max, for all intents and
01:00:55 ◼ ► But somehow I would need to get Johnny Suruji on the podcast, or maybe Ternus would explain
01:01:15 ◼ ► And that's the only thing I can gather is that they want to be able to dedicate a certain
01:01:38 ◼ ► And I know you and I have just spent half the podcast talking about how we love to load
01:01:46 ◼ ► But the truth is, Apple Silicon machines do swap so fast because of the SSD performance
01:02:24 ◼ ► And I will say it's a $2,000 price difference if you're going to go for like the, so an
01:03:02 ◼ ► I think they're making a much bigger differentiation between the kind of the Pro and the Max.
01:03:28 ◼ ► But for most people when they hear, oh, that's $1,000 or $2,000 difference, they're like,
01:03:52 ◼ ► You might want to just get like a well configured like MacBook Air as well as this thing if
01:04:03 ◼ ► And so if you don't need all of that, yeah, honestly, now that I'm thinking about that,
01:05:20 ◼ ► There is no competition and or there's competition, but there's nothing that's in the same ballpark.
01:05:32 ◼ ► Everybody knows that with the desktops, their high-end pro level money is no object graphics
01:06:18 ◼ ► because if the M3 isn't coming till next year, they just want to spin the M2 as still pretty
01:06:33 ◼ ► I just I feel like maybe I haven't taken enough time in this show to just say this is really
01:06:39 ◼ ► impressive that they're not just launching the M3 and three nanometer for Apple Silicon
01:06:49 ◼ ► And it's really they're execution wise, operationally, whatever you want to say, they are
01:06:57 ◼ ► I did want to ask you about that because in that column, one of the best arguments I thought
01:07:37 ◼ ► It's not like and the way that Apple Silicon works developer wise, I don't think it would
01:07:49 ◼ ► cause any like a line of code change to anybody, any developer who's like gone all in on developing
01:07:59 ◼ ► for vision pro trying to be there on day one with either an all new app or some app that
01:08:10 ◼ ► And they've spent every day since WWDC working on it and they've gone to the lab and maybe
01:08:19 ◼ ► maybe they've qualified for the secretive program where they can get pre release hardware.
01:08:27 ◼ ► I don't think saying okay, we're going to ship it with the M3 instead of the M2 is going
01:09:15 ◼ ► But I don't see how else they could if the plan all along was to have an M3 and the vision
01:09:19 ◼ ► pro quote unquote early next year, I don't know how else they could have done it because
01:09:23 ◼ ► they couldn't say well they could they I shouldn't say can't but they wouldn't say it's
01:09:40 ◼ ► They can't say it's going to ship with a great Apple Silicon chip and the revolutionary R1
01:09:46 ◼ ► chip for the low latency camera to all the stuff the R1 does because if they hadn't said
01:09:52 ◼ ► if they just said it's going to have Apple Silicon everybody would have guessed oh it's
01:10:08 ◼ ► I kind of am too and I get your perspective about like feeling maybe sort of misled and
01:10:13 ◼ ► whatnot at the same time I feel like if they could swap this out with an M3 I feel like
01:10:26 ◼ ► I will say as someone who is unclear whether I'm going to be getting one or not and actually
01:10:57 ◼ ► would be honestly I think that would annoy me more than whatever disingenuous or oscification
01:11:06 ◼ ► It's also possible and we don't know, TSMC had delays and they had their own issues and
01:11:13 ◼ ► I wonder too given the fact that this event that they did this on a Monday night the whole
01:11:32 ◼ ► rumors being conflicted I think shows that this was not kind of a guaranteed thing that
01:12:02 ◼ ► I think it I think maybe it ultimately comes down to like I just said a couple of minutes
01:12:16 ◼ ► chip and this is true for all of Apple silicon it's true for iPhone chips too right you
01:12:25 ◼ ► silicon and it runs great the newer faster the chip the faster your software runs great
01:12:30 ◼ ► but for hardware engineering like the hardware engineers making the Vision Pro this is what
01:12:55 ◼ ► fans but a active cooling system or whatever they call it right right right it needs to
01:13:06 ◼ ► face maybe the lead time on eking out every single ounce of performance is such that they
01:13:13 ◼ ► kind of needed to design this thing for the known M2 chip 18 months ago yeah and there's
01:13:23 ◼ ► they can't they can't just say okay now we can just take that out like a Lego break and
01:13:29 ◼ ► put the M3 in there like hardware I think maybe doesn't work like that so if you really
01:13:35 ◼ ► made me bet right now I think the Vision Pro will ship with the M2 as they promised I because
01:13:41 ◼ ► I I kind of think that it has that kind of lead time no I mean that that's a really good
01:13:46 ◼ ► point because as much as these as similar these chips are like you said from a software perspective
01:13:51 ◼ ► I don't know anything about the cooling I don't know especially since the the nanometer size
01:13:56 ◼ ► is different that would negate it from being a plug and play sort of thing and so if they're
01:13:59 ◼ ► going to have to go back and and do significant retooling which again they might have already
01:14:08 ◼ ► to agree with you it would make it difficult for them to make a switch like that and I think
01:14:29 ◼ ► be that significant for again like from from a user perspective right especially if the
01:14:39 ◼ ► that's probably a good point. Speculating on exactly this point with readers and mastodon
01:14:45 ◼ ► followers and everybody asking me do you think that if they do go to M3 for the Mac they'll
01:14:56 ◼ ► and reread the vision pro marketing page on the website and went down to the performance
01:15:09 ◼ ► keynote that and and I also I don't think it's spin I think it's true that the performance
01:15:32 ◼ ► on the vision pro but it's the R1 yeah that really sets it apart they don't brag like they
01:15:39 ◼ ► like Steve Jobs nobody can brag like Steve Jobs did but Steve Jobs when they announced the
01:15:44 ◼ ► original iPhone and said we're five years ahead of the nobody else is within five years of the iPhone
01:15:50 ◼ ► which kind of turned out to be true I don't know I think that the best Android phone that was
01:15:56 ◼ ► comparable it wasn't quite five years I remember kind of doing ballpark math for yeah performance
01:16:02 ◼ ► and specs and stuff it was probably two and a half three or three or four three four it depends
01:16:06 ◼ ► which Android phone you want I was gonna say I think that by the time they got to the their own
01:16:10 ◼ ► chips once they got to the iPhone 4 I don't think it was a competition anymore I think that once
01:16:16 ◼ ► it was but why but the the first iPhone they were so far ahead from the user experience and the
01:16:22 ◼ ► passive screen and everything else and then Android ships a year later it is not in a place
01:16:28 ◼ ► where it could really compete then so you're really at two years I think probably before
01:16:33 ◼ ► Android could could even be quasi in the same conversation but I think that once Apple started
01:16:38 ◼ ► doing its own chips like that that was a completely different ball game but I yeah I get I just get
01:16:44 ◼ ► the feeling like if you pose that question to Rockwell or Jaws or or Tim Cook or whoever you
01:16:52 ◼ ► thought would give a good answer where where do you think Vision Pro is the furthest ahead
01:16:56 ◼ ► of any other company in the headset space I think the R1 chip would be their answer as to where
01:17:03 ◼ ► they're the furthest ahead and it combines with the displays but they're not making the displays
01:17:08 ◼ ► they're buying the displays from Sony and they might be buying all of them you know sort of like
01:17:13 ◼ ► the way they've sort of like the way they've effectively bought up all of TSMC's three nanometer
01:17:19 ◼ ► production for the near term so it is so those displays inside the Vision Pro are sort of an
01:17:27 ◼ ► Apple exclusive but because they're not the ones who make them whereas the R1 is their design and
01:17:33 ◼ ► it's all theirs mine mine mine nobody else has the R1 but I kind of feel like that's the performance
01:17:39 ◼ ► story and that's how they'll well how are they going to debut this thing with an M2 it's $3,500
01:17:44 ◼ ► and by the the earliest they're going to do it is January right and so it'll already be three
01:17:52 ◼ ► months not the the latest and greatest and that's if it is January you know February or March totally
01:17:59 ◼ ► I think you make a great point I think the thing there too I mean like I said this is just me
01:18:04 ◼ ► is more like being annoyed from like a looking at as a as a consumer who's all about speeds and feeds
01:18:09 ◼ ► although that shouldn't really necessarily be what we judge it on but to your point look even though
01:18:13 ◼ ► they don't make the the screens Sony does that R1 is why you have the low latency and why you have
01:18:20 ◼ ► the refresh rate I haven't experienced the Vision Pro but everybody who I've talked to who has has
01:18:24 ◼ ► been blown away and and the fact that the clarity is what it is the responsiveness is what it is
01:18:30 ◼ ► that's what sells it the same way that the Apple didn't make the the first chip in in the iPhone
01:18:36 ◼ ► right but it was the responsiveness of the UI it was the fact that you could reach to Zoom
01:18:40 ◼ ► it was that whole fluid thing even though you didn't have multitasking and you couldn't
01:18:51 ◼ ► but it didn't matter because the interface I mean it was just such a didn't have apps but it was
01:18:56 ◼ ► such a huge step forward that I think that the only company that is is conceivably even in the
01:19:03 ◼ ► conversation is meta and what they're doing with like the Quest Pro 3 and and and and all that
01:19:09 ◼ ► stuff is like not even it's again it's not even in the same conversation like it's like it's like
01:19:14 ◼ ► it's like okay well this is cute this is the one that was actually going to go forward and that's
01:19:19 ◼ ► because they've got the entire experience there so maybe it doesn't really matter like the
01:19:23 ◼ ► technicalities of what chip is in it as long as they can get all those things working together
01:19:27 ◼ ► to deliver that experience because that's what's going to make or break the Vision Pro is is that
01:19:32 ◼ ► experience yeah and I I just kind of and I'd be happy if I'm wrong that if they can make them as
01:19:37 ◼ ► fast as they want but I just kind of feel from it it's largely based on on the supply chain rumors
01:19:46 ◼ ► about these displays right but the displays will be the constraining element of this whole thing
01:19:53 ◼ ► and I kind of feel like there will be enough demand I you know for this first generation one
01:19:59 ◼ ► that I I think it's going to be back ordered all year oh yeah and maybe we'll loosen up by the time
01:20:06 ◼ ► Christmas rolls around but then by that time it'll be 10 months old and it's questionable whether
01:20:11 ◼ ► people should be buying it or waiting for right vision pro 2 or the of course non-pro version
01:20:19 ◼ ► of the thing which Gurman's already got some reports about that one of the ways they're
01:20:22 ◼ ► going to save money is not having the front-facing eyesight display but I really think that they're
01:20:29 ◼ ► going to be they're going to sell them as fast as they can make them at 3500 all year long whether
01:20:35 ◼ ► it has the m2 or not they could actually I honestly think that they could say you know what
01:20:40 ◼ ► we actually downgraded it to the m1 I think you're right I think you're right and in fact I'm sure
01:20:44 ◼ ► that early iterations of it probably were using an m1 right like I mean right I guess yeah I mean
01:20:49 ◼ ► they had that then right because as long as they've been working on this so they I think I
01:20:53 ◼ ► think to your point yeah especially if the supply constraint is going to be those Sony displays and
01:20:58 ◼ ► and I'm sure they're buying every single one that Sony can make but you know just just as for many
01:21:03 ◼ ► years they bought every single sensor that Sony could make for the smartphone cameras and they
01:21:08 ◼ ► still buy the majority of the ones that Sony makes there but yeah I mean I think I think that's
01:21:14 ◼ ► yeah I think that they're not gonna have any problem being sold out on this thing and again
01:21:18 ◼ ► I don't as much as again like it would be you feel in some way a little bit of a slight at the other
01:21:24 ◼ ► end if you're buying this product which starts at 3500 that is very niche and is going to have a very
01:21:30 ◼ ► kind of specific kind of market at least in the beginning I think that it I still stand by the
01:21:35 ◼ ► fact that this is as cool as this looks this is still a product that is going to be searching for
01:21:41 ◼ ► that product market fit for quite some time I don't know how much it matters with that first
01:21:47 ◼ ► gen it's kind of like the first gen iPad where a lot of us bought it and we loved it and we knew
01:21:52 ◼ ► what it represented but it was that iPad 2 that was really the one that everybody got into that
01:21:58 ◼ ► was thinner that had the better battery life that was was a just leaps and bounds better but you
01:22:05 ◼ ► have to you have to start somewhere and so it doesn't really matter I'm so glad you thought
01:22:09 ◼ ► to bring it up though because if we would have ended this show without without talking about
01:22:13 ◼ ► the vision pro what are they going to do about the M chip and the vision pro I would have I would
01:22:17 ◼ ► have lost my mind I would have like I would have been like calling you at four in the morning like
01:22:21 ◼ ► you can get to talk about it no can you hop back on and well no because because that was one of the
01:22:25 ◼ ► reasons why I was kind of on team I don't know if they're going to release an M3 I know right me too
01:22:31 ◼ ► because you made a really compelling case I was like well it definitely threw me off yeah I'm
01:22:35 ◼ ► happy to say I'm wrong I'm I'm all I'm so glad to be wrong because this this M3 lineup is great and
01:22:41 ◼ ► I'm glad I'm glad the pros and the max are out already and it's all seems too good to be true
01:22:47 ◼ ► and again so much for the supply chain stuff like that supply chain rumor was that the A17 pro
01:22:55 ◼ ► alone was going to max out TSMC's three nanometer production it at least at scale yeah apparently
01:23:02 ◼ ► not for this while I mentioned that for the super nerds out there in terms of which three
01:23:08 ◼ ► nanometer production process they're on they they would not say so I don't know and you know
01:23:14 ◼ ► will I guess we'll find out somehow soon ish I guess when people start buying them or somebody
01:23:20 ◼ ► takes them apart but I I don't know the answer to that and quite frankly I I don't care I was gonna
01:23:26 ◼ ► say I don't care either I'm just glad we're three nanometer which is incredibly impressive that's
01:23:30 ◼ ► what ATP is for yeah I was gonna say ATP can get into that and and yeah I fix it other people can
01:23:36 ◼ ► can buy them and delib them and and go through that process of figuring that stuff out which
01:23:40 ◼ ► would be very interesting I'd love to learn about it but I also I'm with you I kind of don't care I
01:23:46 ◼ ► mean like I care in terms of like it's interesting but it's not going to make any difference to me
01:23:50 ◼ ► about the fact that I want this black laptop all right let me take a break here and thank our
01:23:55 ◼ ► second and final sponsor of this episode and it is our very good friends it's the opposite of a
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01:27:02 ◼ ► I guess we finished up with some of the three nanometer stuff oh that's right that's right
01:27:08 ◼ ► oh here's I know what I wanted to ask you sorry keep on this vision pro what are they going to do
01:27:15 ◼ ► again stick with the m2 as they promised or are they going to surprise us with an m3 here's my
01:27:20 ◼ ► question on that front and a lot of people like I said a lot a lot of listeners and readers have
01:27:26 ◼ ► been asking me about this all week I'm not at all surprised that they didn't mention it in the event
01:27:33 ◼ ► right and if they're not going to change it of course they didn't but let's just say they are
01:27:38 ◼ ► let's say it is going they are going to happily surprise us and upgrade the original first gen
01:27:44 ◼ ► vision pro to the m3 there's no way that they were going to mention it during the event tonight
01:27:50 ◼ ► because the event was focused on things you could buy and it was all mac all mac and all stuff that's
01:27:56 ◼ ► on sale as you and I speak right now by the time anybody listens to this you can already buy it
01:28:01 ◼ ► everything except the m3 max is shipping next week and they they told me when they said sometime in
01:28:08 ◼ ► november and apparently not even that late in november I don't know like middle of the month
01:28:12 ◼ ► that the m3 max configurations aren't going to be that far behind but they wouldn't say exactly but
01:28:19 ◼ ► uh I there's no way they were going to mention that in the in the in the show it's too distracting
01:28:24 ◼ ► right because it's the big shiny thing on the horizon it's it's it's like looking into the sun
01:28:30 ◼ ► and then trying to look at something else you're once they mention vision pro even at the end
01:28:34 ◼ ► everybody's going to forget about all this great new max stuff but here's my question would
01:28:38 ◼ ► would they wait until the second the the launch event of the vision pro and surprise us right
01:28:46 ◼ ► there on stage or would they make like a press release announcement later this month and just say
01:28:54 ◼ ► oh by the way customers love the m3 is when our new macbook pros and the new imax and we're happy
01:29:01 ◼ ► to say it's going to be in the vision pro in a press release to sort of take that just not not
01:29:08 ◼ ► to take it off the table but to sort of uh reduce the enthusiasm for vision pro I think that they
01:29:18 ◼ ► would say it at like the main event like I think that it would be one of those like special like
01:29:24 ◼ ► and and one more thing and guess what it's even better than we promised right because then then
01:29:29 ◼ ► I feel like that would be like it would make people even more exuberant like not only are we
01:29:33 ◼ ► bringing this out within the time frame we said we were going to and it's going to have all this
01:29:37 ◼ ► stuff but we made it even better when we started this out we said that it was going to be the m2
01:29:42 ◼ ► but now we've actually been able to get the latest processors latest and greatest in in these
01:29:47 ◼ ► headsets so it's going to be even more powerful blah blah blah blah blah that was my first
01:29:54 ◼ ► thought but then I thought but but they're all pre-recorded now so they can't do it they're not
01:29:59 ◼ ► going to be able to play for applause right yeah that's true so I've kind of my my first thought
01:30:06 ◼ ► was that they'll save it for the event because I know they're going to have another event and
01:30:10 ◼ ► people have even asked me do you think they're going to have another event and of course they
01:30:13 ◼ ► will right it's it's the the the playbook is the apple watch playbook you announce the product
01:30:20 ◼ ► one year and say it's coming next year and then when it comes the next year then you have a
01:30:26 ◼ ► dedicated event just for that product that's exactly what they did with apple watch in 2014
01:30:32 ◼ ► introductions slash 15 when it shipped or what or 13 and 4 whatever two years it was and they're
01:30:40 ◼ ► going to do that again they're going to have a special event is surely at steve jobs theater for
01:30:45 ◼ ► the media just for the vision pro quote unquote early next year I could see them waiting for it
01:30:51 ◼ ► but I kind of wonder I kind of feel like they're sneaky that way where they they'd love to have
01:30:59 ◼ ► like a little hey you know the the vision pro which is going to be awesome which was going to
01:31:05 ◼ ► be awesome just the way we promised it is going to be awesomer I don't know yeah but just just after
01:31:16 ◼ ► the enthusiasm for these m3 mac announcements cools off that would be the time that I would
01:31:23 ◼ ► expect something like that that's true I mean and I think you bring up a good point that these are
01:31:27 ◼ ► no longer live events which is sad to me because that would be it would be a great mic drop moment
01:31:32 ◼ ► right like these are things would be great with with an actual audience I hope that we can get
01:31:37 ◼ ► back to that point someday like I like that they can do these highly produced things I also do miss
01:31:42 ◼ ► the the experience of live to be honest right so but but that's a good point without having that
01:31:49 ◼ ► benefit of live I do think that you do lose a tremendous amount of the but wait there's more
01:31:55 ◼ ► aspect so yeah I think that's true I think that maybe when things are tapered down that would be
01:32:01 ◼ ► good almost like what we call like a second day story we like to juice the cycle once more so I
01:32:08 ◼ ► don't know I say stay tuned but it's exciting because we don't know yeah it is exciting I kind
01:32:13 ◼ ► of thought this whole event was kind of fun because we didn't know what was coming and people were all
01:32:18 ◼ ► over the map I was going to say that was the fun thing about this is that this is first time in a
01:32:22 ◼ ► really long time where there was a lot of just there were conflicting reports and we didn't know
01:32:27 ◼ ► what it was going to be and we knew it was gonna be max I mean they made that clear and by showing
01:32:32 ◼ ► the the black finder I was like okay are we going to get a black mac book like that was my deepest
01:32:37 ◼ ► like like want but but I still to be completely honest like I was like well I really want a black
01:32:44 ◼ ► mac book but I did not I I was like they're probably just going to give us like another
01:32:47 ◼ ► colored iMac or something right right and I was pleasantly surprised but yeah this was nice this
01:32:52 ◼ ► was one of those nice things that a it kind of came out of nowhere b it was a last minute
01:32:56 ◼ ► sort of thing c okay we we can talk about the fact that it was a little bit weird to do this
01:33:01 ◼ ► on a Monday night but yeah I'll also say they did it in half an hour like it was very tight
01:33:07 ◼ ► 30 minutes which I very much applaud them for as somebody who's worked on events both pre-recorded
01:33:13 ◼ ► and not like to get that in into a 30 minute like tight like way that it was done was good it flowed
01:33:19 ◼ ► well and it was it was a nice surprise like it was a not something we were expecting because usually
01:33:26 ◼ ► we know well in advance they're going to be doing these mac events and this was this was a nice
01:33:31 ◼ ► surprise especially the fact that we got so much right like I I I was kind of expecting just kind
01:33:36 ◼ ► of like a mediocre kind of traditional like spec bump and it wasn't that I think that the fact that
01:33:42 ◼ ► we killed the touch bar finally rest in hell die in a fire never come back god I hate the touch bar
01:33:49 ◼ ► I don't hate the touch bar itself I don't but I also don't love it I'm like the only person who's
01:33:54 ◼ ► like ambivalent and I've been I've felt the same way about it ever since they first launched yeah
01:33:58 ◼ ► it's like I tried with it I really tried to make it work the only good thing about the touch bar
01:34:02 ◼ ► there were two good things one was the fingerprint sensor which was obviously like amazing and two was
01:34:08 ◼ ► I did really appreciate it was a very easy way to raise the brightness or the volume on your laptop
01:34:13 ◼ ► like that was I would use those sliders for that everything else I was like yeah this is going to
01:34:18 ◼ ► get in my way but you know like they but they gave us with this event like it looks like there's some
01:34:24 ◼ ► real performance improvements but also like this was a really solid lineup of of I think making the
01:34:30 ◼ ► mac lineup finally unified I'm a little disappointed that they never took like a second
01:34:35 ◼ ► crack at the at the touch bar yeah right that they just sort of like ah well forget it I don't know I
01:34:41 ◼ ► and I wonder like did they have like I'm sure they had ideas oh yeah far how far did they take them
01:34:48 ◼ ► for like okay okay the first one wasn't that great but but what if but what if and reimagined I
01:34:54 ◼ ► wonder I wonder if the touch bar was so associated with the butterfly keyboard that you know what I
01:34:59 ◼ ► mean even though they were separate but I wonder what was so associated with that that it was like
01:35:03 ◼ ► okay we need to just get away from this as quickly as possible the one thing weird about the touch
01:35:11 ◼ ► at like the event because I had to fly out to to see it um I think I I um I could have gone locally
01:35:18 ◼ ► but I think I flew out to to look at the mac event I remember this because Microsoft had an event the
01:35:22 ◼ ► day before and then I had to get on an airplane and like fly across the country to go see the
01:35:26 ◼ ► laptops was that the touch bar more than any other laptop experience I'd ever had made me for the
01:35:33 ◼ ► first time actually touch the screen of my macbook which is not a mistake I've ever made but there
01:35:39 ◼ ► was this weird kind of disconnector I was like okay you're trying to do this but if you to me
01:35:44 ◼ ► it's like shit or get off the pot like either put a touch screen on the mac which I think is inevitable
01:35:50 ◼ ► at some at a certain point or don't but it felt like it was again kind of like this half-seized
01:35:57 ◼ ► thing that they they didn't really succeed either way but I did appreciate being able to raise the
01:36:01 ◼ ► volume or the the brightness on my laptop and obviously having the fingerprints and so it was
01:36:06 ◼ ► great what else did you think about the broadcast whatever you want to call the keynote what about
01:36:11 ◼ ► the halloween spooky framing that was cute that was cute it was a little bit distracting at some
01:36:17 ◼ ► points that they had like the background like the halloween like background music going on like
01:36:22 ◼ ► throughout the entire time I was like okay that that is a choice but I did appreciate that I
01:36:28 ◼ ► thought that with the whole black thing like that that fit the time of year the way they kind of
01:36:33 ◼ ► swooped in on on Tim I wish he'd been wearing like a Dracula costume or something like I think that
01:36:38 ◼ ► would really really you really would have no if you were there you would have no I mean I mean
01:36:42 ◼ ► yes but but but no Tim Cook is never going to do that I'm just saying like I appreciate like
01:36:47 ◼ ► if they leaned into the camp a little bit more I wouldn't have been mad but I also wouldn't expect
01:36:52 ◼ ► them to right because it's Apple but no I thought I thought was well so I did something interesting
01:36:57 ◼ ► this year I did not this event rather I did not watch it on like the official Apple website or the
01:37:04 ◼ ► app the TV app I watched it on YouTube and I found that to be a better experience and have
01:37:10 ◼ ► less of the latency issues that sometimes happens from the official apps because they struggle with
01:37:16 ◼ ► their CDN stuff to be able to get it out to as many people and so you will have an instance where
01:37:21 ◼ ► I will have it up on three different devices and it'll be at different points on every single
01:37:26 ◼ ► device with however much of a buffer there might be and and I tried it this time I was like let's
01:37:31 ◼ ► see what the YouTube thing is like and look you can make a lot of criticisms about YouTube and
01:37:36 ◼ ► I definitely have but the one thing they know how to do correctly is like video and especially live
01:37:41 ◼ ► streams and so I do it I did appreciate that they've started to simulcast these things because
01:37:48 ◼ ► frankly like yeah use Google servers I mean have your own do your own thing but but use somebody
01:37:53 ◼ ► who's like this is literally what they're the best in the world at I think it's telling that
01:37:58 ◼ ► unless I'm missing somebody everybody puts their stuff on YouTube oh yeah I mean Apple the fact
01:38:05 ◼ ► that Apple live streams it on YouTube I know Microsoft puts all of their stuff on YouTube
01:38:12 ◼ ► you know and that was a fight keynotes that was a fight it that I think meta does meta does
01:38:17 ◼ ► everybody does yeah and I have to say I can speak for the Microsoft part of it because when I worked
01:38:22 ◼ ► there there was a contention of executives who did not want to do anything on YouTube because
01:38:27 ◼ ► competitor and I very I didn't know what I was getting into this was for Microsoft build the
01:38:33 ◼ ► first year that I was involved in and stuff with that so this was 2018 I was very like loud and
01:38:39 ◼ ► like vociferous I was like we have to be on YouTube this is where everyone goes this is the number two
01:38:43 ◼ ► search engine in the world I don't we can use our own player and whatnot but we have to have this
01:38:48 ◼ ► content there and we have to simulcast because this is literally where everyone is and not only
01:38:53 ◼ ► that but our own platform at the time that Microsoft owned they had a mixer which was like
01:38:58 ◼ ► their take on Twitch didn't actually fit the accessibility requirements that the company had
01:39:03 ◼ ► so that was how I was able to win was I was they were like oh we have to we should live stream on
01:39:08 ◼ ► mixer and I was like okay so are we going to burn the captions like what are we going to do because
01:39:12 ◼ ► it doesn't match our our company's accessibility requirements so we could just use YouTube one but
01:39:19 ◼ ► but that was that was a hard thing to get over but although now like six years later no one would
01:39:25 ◼ ► question it right and I think even that says a lot about Apple the fact that they will live stream
01:39:29 ◼ ► their events there because I think you just at a certain point have to recognize how important the
01:39:34 ◼ ► destination is and I don't I don't think anybody at Apple is happy about it I'm sure they're not
01:39:38 ◼ ► but I think they also I don't think there's any real debate anymore I don't know when there was
01:39:43 ◼ ► I'm sure there was I'm sure there was like because none of those companies like each other I don't
01:39:47 ◼ ► know draw connections between them and there's some where there's sort of detente right like
01:39:56 ◼ ► Apple and Amazon I don't know they're not really enemies but they're also not really partners I
01:40:01 ◼ ► guess app supposedly maybe still uses AWS for some of the back end but I don't think you know I think
01:40:06 ◼ ► that's less and less it's less and less from what I understand they still use AWS and they still use
01:40:11 ◼ ► GCP for some things but more and more of it I'm sure is their own but no I mean those those are
01:40:16 ◼ ► things that are always like I work at GitHub where we are like we have to be agnostic kind of to
01:40:22 ◼ ► everyone although I'm sure that plenty of companies hate that they put their source code on us but
01:40:26 ◼ ► they're also kind of like okay well what else are we going to do with it like if we want people to
01:40:31 ◼ ► actually be able to access this and and share about it like it's kind of a similar situation
01:40:35 ◼ ► to YouTube like you kind of have to be there and it is is yeah so yeah GitHub is to source code
01:40:42 ◼ ► what YouTube is to video basically yeah I enjoy it because I can be like kind of I feel like I'm
01:40:48 ◼ ► Switzerland right like I don't have to pick a side I'm like hey we want everybody we don't care who
01:40:53 ◼ ► you are just push your code you host your code with us but yeah I was I watched on YouTube and
01:40:59 ◼ ► I was very happy with that experience and I'm glad that they are now simulcasting that like I
01:41:05 ◼ ► I'm sure they're not happy about it but again like good that's the better user experience decision
01:41:10 ◼ ► is it just me I kind of feel like maybe one of the bits it's not quite campiness and it certainly
01:41:17 ◼ ► wasn't a costume but I kind of feel like in my opinion Johnny Suruji is a bit of a scary dude
01:41:22 ◼ ► he always always and I kind of feel like they he played it up on this he was like welcome to my lab
01:41:30 ◼ ► yes yeah and I almost feel like it sort of played up his Israeli accent as sort of Transylvanian you
01:41:37 ◼ ► know actually that's a good point welcome to my underground laboratory and it's like I he has an
01:41:44 ◼ ► intensity always has every time he's in a keynote there's a certain intensity to him that I'm like
01:41:49 ◼ ► whoa dude chill out but I'm glad you're there because maybe that intensity is what's driving
01:41:56 ◼ ► their silicon forward I'm sure it is insane pace but it it his intensity matched the Halloween
01:42:04 ◼ ► spooky theme of this in a way and and his counterpart on hardware John Ternus yeah comes
01:42:09 ◼ ► across as like ah what a nice guy I'd love to put my arm around him and have a beer with John Ternus
01:42:14 ◼ ► what a swell guy I was gonna say it was a nice dichotomy there it really was kind of a great
01:42:18 ◼ ► trick-or-treat thing and I do have to give them credit like if you're gonna do the event
01:42:22 ◼ ► on a Monday night if you're gonna like lean into the dark theme like I you know like well done
01:42:28 ◼ ► again I think this is about as campy as Apple could go which is fine but I I didn't hate it I
01:42:35 ◼ ► I still think it's so weird for them to do a night event yeah I do too I I guess I I think
01:42:41 ◼ ► ultimately it just came down to well if we're gonna play into the Halloween theme why don't
01:42:45 ◼ ► we broadcast it at night too right yeah the only other thing was sorry go ahead no go ahead we're
01:42:51 ◼ ► at the timing like 8 p.m eastern that's one thing but I'm thinking like okay this is like
01:42:56 ◼ ► two o'clock three o'clock in the morning in Europe right that's the that was the only part of it that
01:43:00 ◼ ► was weird for me was like okay yeah it's because I'm on the west coast so for me it was fine
01:43:06 ◼ ► but on the east coast prime time whatever but and then I'm thinking okay so to me it really did kind
01:43:12 ◼ ► of strike me as okay this is a very US centric event maybe more than even any of their others
01:43:17 ◼ ► just because the timing was definitely not European friendly yeah yeah but on the other hand
01:43:23 ◼ ► Apple is so worldwide now that they can never win right so when they have when they have a 10 a.m
01:43:37 ◼ ► do dithering with Ben Thompson it's like seven Taiwan no Taiwan is exactly 12 hours apart from
01:43:43 ◼ ► from the east coast right so from right except for the four months of the year when we're in
01:43:51 ◼ ► not in daylight savings time then it's 11 hours difference I forget I already forget which way it
01:43:56 ◼ ► goes but close enough it's 12 hours difference so like Ben and I usually record dithering at 8 pm
01:44:03 ◼ ► my time he wakes up takes his kids to school and it's 8 a.m his time but it's it's such an easy way
01:44:10 ◼ ► for me I'm not good at time zones I even just going from east coast to west coast I'm always
01:44:14 ◼ ► confused like it's like I I've done it for so many times so many years it's just three time zones it
01:44:22 ◼ ► or or four time zones in the U.S but I've still after all these years I'll like get a phone call
01:44:28 ◼ ► from my wife and I'm like you're still up and it's like yeah she'll be like it's you know it's like
01:44:33 ◼ ► five o'clock in California she's like it's eight o'clock I don't go to bed I'm like oh yeah that's
01:44:37 ◼ ► right I I still get confused but you can't win because those those keynotes aren't a good time
01:44:43 ◼ ► for Asia you're right to market yeah yeah you're right the year our European friends were the the
01:44:50 ◼ ► the people who had to suffer for this one though no for sure because it was midnight in in the UK
01:44:54 ◼ ► and and in 1 am in Paris so one other thing I I've mentioned this a few times recently and it seems
01:45:02 ◼ ► like a lot of other people haven't noticed it and for some reason it just sticks out to me but
01:45:05 ◼ ► at least for the the entire run of the modern pre-recorded Apple keynote for iPhones every
01:45:17 ◼ ► single one of them when they do the iPhone event uh Kyan Drance introduces the non-pro models
01:45:25 ◼ ► and it's brightly lit daytime and then and she goes first because you save the best for last
01:45:31 ◼ ► and then Jaws introduces the pro models and every time in those keynotes they go to nighttime and
01:45:39 ◼ ► they pretend it's nighttime at Apple Park and it's dark right and we're and even if Jaws is standing
01:45:46 ◼ ► in front of the same screen or fake screen at CGI den or green screened in in Steve Jobs theater
01:45:52 ◼ ► anti-rumor whatever you call that chamber up top it's dark and it's nighttime because dark is pro
01:45:59 ◼ ► and light is not so we've seen Apple Park at in these keynotes at nighttime before but it's only
01:46:06 ◼ ► and always only for the iPhone pro models so the whole having the whole event pretend to be
01:46:12 ◼ ► nighttime at Apple Park was new I just kind of feel like they just wanted to shake it up yeah
01:46:17 ◼ ► yeah I think that I think they did and I liked it I thought that it was good it was one of those
01:46:21 ◼ ► things that made me happy because I was like okay you know what like we've seen how you do this the
01:46:27 ◼ ► normal way this is actually really nice to see it done a little bit differently just because like I
01:46:32 ◼ ► said I miss the live events there is I really respect what they do with their pre-records
01:46:47 ◼ ► comes with live that you an energy that you miss but I did appreciate they're like okay
01:46:51 ◼ ► they're experimenting more they're able to kind of have fun I felt like the team who edited it
01:46:56 ◼ ► had fun like that came through and and I think that came through even like with that that lifted
01:47:01 ◼ ► up the entire experience here's something did you notice this or did you close your youtube
01:47:06 ◼ ► stream before the end I I don't even know why I was still watching but I was going waited for
01:47:11 ◼ ► the they don't have a lot of credits but at the end it said shot on iphone edited on mac so they
01:47:19 ◼ ► shot they shot that whole thing on iphones oh I missed that that's actually that's fantastic
01:47:24 ◼ ► it's I would not have guessed by looking at it it's like damn no I would not have guessed that
01:47:30 ◼ ► either that's really great actually yeah really kind of amazing and I wonder it does shooting at
01:47:37 ◼ ► night time help with that because you don't have to worry so much about depth of field and stuff
01:47:41 ◼ ► like is that going to be true going forward I wonder but it was I mean they're they're in a
01:47:46 ◼ ► studio environment for I'm sure a lot of that they have even when they're outdoors they've got massive
01:47:50 ◼ ► lights and stuff set up so I don't know how much that matters to be honest with you but but it
01:47:54 ◼ ► looked good it looked great yeah but that is actually amazing that it was shot on I mean that's
01:47:58 ◼ ► that's a big flex shot on iphone edited on mac like obviously the way that they're going to shoot
01:48:03 ◼ ► on an iphone is going to be different in the way most people can because again they're going to
01:48:06 ◼ ► have lights out the wazoo I will say one of the things sorry go on well I'm just I want to make
01:48:13 ◼ ► a joke shot on studio display yes there we go okay see that would be a horror film truly oh my god
01:48:20 ◼ ► definitely like the Blair Witch right yeah like that okay that that's good that's good yeah shout
01:48:24 ◼ ► out to you that's the real horror story no what I was going to say though is I don't know how much
01:48:28 ◼ ► video like poor case if you've done on your iphone 15 pro max but like you have to basically connect
01:48:36 ◼ ► like a external SSD to it if you want to get like the best frames and it's been funny because I've
01:48:42 ◼ ► been seeing people do that and I'm like yep this is basically the same as with any good actual
01:48:49 ◼ ► camera system which is a similar sort of scenario so I'm just picturing them on these mounts with
01:48:54 ◼ ► maybe I don't know if they had extra lenses on top or what they were doing and just you know SSDs
01:48:58 ◼ ► hanging off and things plugged into power and all kinds of stuff I haven't shot like that because I
01:49:04 ◼ ► don't do serious video so I mean I've shot video with my iphone 15 pro but I don't shoot pro raw
01:49:10 ◼ ► you know yeah I did it just to test it and it was good because for me it's one of those things I was
01:49:15 ◼ ► like I'm thinking about when I do like remote video setup stuff for youtube's things that I do
01:49:21 ◼ ► like actually I think the camera is now good enough that I don't have to travel with my micro
01:49:27 ◼ ► four thirds or whatever the format is my sony camera I don't have to travel without anymore
01:49:33 ◼ ► and so which is which is great I'll bet though now that you bring that up though I'll bet that
01:49:38 ◼ ► explains why I think this is the first keynote that they've said that about and I'll bet that's
01:49:44 ◼ ► why yeah because this is the first time they have iphones yeah it's yeah it's not so much that the
01:49:50 ◼ ► camera system and sensor is better even though they are right incrementally better it's that
01:49:54 ◼ ► they can shoot and I linked to stew match which is good pro lost I was like thank you for explaining
01:50:01 ◼ ► this to me because I had no idea but that whole explanation about shooting in that log which looks
01:50:06 ◼ ► off the can't off the phone looks so desaturated but that's because you're it's got all this data
01:50:13 ◼ ► that you can use to color it the way you want so I'll bet that's the explanation for why this is
01:50:18 ◼ ► the first one that they've shot on iphone because they could shoot it with the iphone 15 pro
01:50:23 ◼ ► with the SSD shooting and it's pro raw right or yeah or no it was pro res it's it's yeah pro res
01:50:33 ◼ ► pro res yeah pro raw is the still format but yeah the the pro res format and then they can color it
01:50:41 ◼ ► perfectly the coloring is the big deal I think honestly I think that's the biggest reason why
01:50:45 ◼ ► because you would previously be able to use tools like thulmuk and there are some other third-party
01:50:49 ◼ ► apps that would be really good but the fact that you could have it in pro res which means you could
01:50:54 ◼ ► natively bring it into final cut and then with the s log be able to color match it to fit what their
01:51:00 ◼ ► requirements would be but it's still really impressive that they did that on the iphone
01:51:04 ◼ ► because I had no idea I would not have expected that like I would I would have assumed that they
01:51:07 ◼ ► used their red systems or whatever they usually use are so one last little postscript to the
01:51:13 ◼ ► episode that you and I were chatting about before a little bit bittersweet matt matthew perry died
01:51:20 ◼ ► what two days ago as we record gut punch ran and of all things it was the first person to tell me
01:51:27 ◼ ► it was my son he texted the group he was like matthew perry died and it's like oh man and it's
01:51:31 ◼ ► like that I think it's the first time my son ever broke bad news to me and he's at college but it's
01:51:36 ◼ ► like he I don't know somehow you know he's he's 19 so he's obviously on his phone right all the
01:51:42 ◼ ► time somehow got the news like instantly but man what a gut punch I love that guy um I'd always so
01:51:49 ◼ ► funny link to a couple of remembrances friends was a great it's the reason people still watch it it
01:51:57 ◼ ► really is just a fantastic show and it's so hard to say oh well matthew perry now that he's the
01:52:02 ◼ ► first one to die it's like oh well he was the the linchpin of the whole show they were every single
01:52:08 ◼ ► one of the six characters right they were all essential yeah and you couldn't take any one of
01:52:12 ◼ ► them out without the the balance falling apart there was a certain that was it's part of the
01:52:18 ◼ ► genius of the show is they got it all the way up to six lead characters who were all essential
01:52:24 ◼ ► but I will say that the thing for me was that matthew perry's chandler felt the most like I
01:52:32 ◼ ► identified with him you know sarcasm you know he was so funny no and he really did make that role
01:52:40 ◼ ► his own I mean I think that it was alan stephen well who you linked to his remembrance and he did
01:52:44 ◼ ► point out like he didn't have a lot of lines in the pilot but some of the ones he did he nailed
01:52:49 ◼ ► it and that first season which is the first half of that first season I think it really the show
01:52:53 ◼ ► came into its own completely by the time that first season ended but the first probably like
01:52:58 ◼ ► six or seven episodes they're all figuring things out and all of them except for courtney cox were
01:53:03 ◼ ► really green like she had tons of experience and she was cast first and and I think if you were
01:53:09 ◼ ► going to argue like who was sort of like especially the earlier sort of the linchpin it probably would
01:53:13 ◼ ► be her but I think that the way that he played his role which could have been this kind of
01:53:18 ◼ ► douchebag kind of asshole guy who you don't really like that much he brought like a sense of
01:53:26 ◼ ► vulnerability and and humor and just like he was really really good I always loved chandler chandler
01:53:32 ◼ ► was always one of my favorite characters and and he was just you could you got the sense that a lot
01:53:37 ◼ ► of the humor really was not from the script but was from him and which especially that first season
01:53:43 ◼ ► like poor matt leblanc was not great at at first which is completely okay he got very very good
01:53:50 ◼ ► but like matthew perry like he seemed like a lot of his humor really was completely injected into
01:53:56 ◼ ► that script and it it came across that way and it was did your son watch friends because I know
01:54:01 ◼ ► yes yeah no he did he did the very now completely stereotypical like thing where like I don't know
01:54:08 ◼ ► six or seven years ago like as when he was like 13 or so yeah just binge the whole thing yeah start
01:54:14 ◼ ► to finish and did the did the thing that everybody my age is like oh my god I'm gonna right I'm gonna
01:54:20 ◼ ► kill you before you're out of the house he was like did you guys ever hear the show friends and you're
01:54:23 ◼ ► like I swear to god and you're like okay you're dead like I'm absolutely like like I'm giving you
01:54:27 ◼ ► up for the adoption even though you're 13 did we hear friends it's like on the one hand I'm so glad
01:54:33 ◼ ► he watched it and loved it because my wife and I both liked it I would never say it was my all-time
01:54:37 ◼ ► favorite show but I watched it you know everybody watched it yeah I mean how can you who didn't
01:54:42 ◼ ► watch it and it's like so it's so cool that it's another show yeah that we could talk about but
01:54:47 ◼ ► it's like did you guys ever hear of friends I think what do you tell her well no that's the thing I
01:54:51 ◼ ► mean it's hard to explain to people who weren't because I was I think I was like 10 or 11 when it
01:54:55 ◼ ► premiered and so it was my my adolescence like that it was on basically like like and then it's
01:55:01 ◼ ► never not been on the air right it's it's unfortunately the big bang theory is the last
01:55:06 ◼ ► great american sitcom in terms of the traditional sense and that's not even a great sitcom but it is
01:55:09 ◼ ► the last real one but friends I think is the last one that will like live on forever in in the same
01:55:15 ◼ ► way that things like I Love Lucy and All in the Family and things like that like lived on forever
01:55:20 ◼ ► like Friends is one of those that you just generationally people just discovered and just
01:55:24 ◼ ► doesn't matter that it was 30 years ago like it still works yeah Seinfeld is up there too and they
01:55:30 ◼ ► were they were on part they were almost like paired together they were part of this Thursday
01:55:33 ◼ ► night juggernaut on NBC but in some I liked Seinfeld better I did too I did too but but
01:55:41 ◼ ► but it's Friends has the heart yeah and it seems like Friends has more legs yes 25 years later
01:55:47 ◼ ► 20 years later yeah it does well because it's more approachable I mean Seinfeld had the critical
01:55:54 ◼ ► acclaim and obviously it's very funny and very good and my favorite show but like but Friends
01:55:58 ◼ ► which came out a few years later I think is just it's a more accessible show it's a more mainstream
01:56:02 ◼ ► show and I think that it was a real testament to like those actors frankly and for all negotiating
01:56:09 ◼ ► together so right it was huge news at the time but that they stuck together and I guess by the end of
01:56:17 ◼ ► it I think it was pretty I think it was pretty clear by the time they got to like the we're
01:56:25 ◼ ► going to negotiate every year for 20 million dollars each yeah per season or whatever that
01:56:30 ◼ ► it was very clear I think by that time that Jennifer Aniston was the one who's to start yeah
01:56:40 ◼ ► chance of becoming like a movie star right and did but the fact that they were just like you know
01:56:46 ◼ ► we're all going to take the same amount we're not going to note not one of the six of us is going to
01:56:50 ◼ ► nickel and dime over 20 versus 25 million or over and we're all just going to do it together
01:56:55 ◼ ► you're either going to sign us all for the same amount or rolled out which which worked is
01:56:59 ◼ ► honestly what they were going to do that for seasons they were going to cut Matt LeBlanc
01:57:03 ◼ ► and and David Schwimmer who had come from theater and who I think also probably recognized that
01:57:08 ◼ ► even though Ross and Rachel was a great through line I think he probably was smart enough to
01:57:13 ◼ ► recognize I don't have the same appeal like on camera or anything else as these other two guys
01:57:19 ◼ ► so it behooves me for basically he was the one who convinced them all to negotiate together because
01:57:24 ◼ ► they had different contracts that first season but after the show blew up they all worked together and
01:57:30 ◼ ► like they I think they even had like a strike or something like where they refused to go in and
01:57:34 ◼ ► Warner Brothers was pissed but I mean Warner Brothers has made more money off of that show
01:57:39 ◼ ► than probably any show in its entire history and he was a huge part of that and when you talk about
01:57:44 ◼ ► like movie success obviously Jennifer Aniston you're right like she's had a big career but
01:57:48 ◼ ► he was in some hits like the last nine yards and like a couple other things like he was in were
01:57:54 ◼ ► really really big films and very funny but you and I we were talking about Studio 60 which was
01:58:01 ◼ ► our favorite show it was yeah yeah and I I it warmed my heart how many people wrote to me and
01:58:07 ◼ ► said yes I love that show too so many people but and I do think it was so weird I won't like well
01:58:13 ◼ ► I will I was gonna say I'm not gonna rehash what I wrote but I will I'll just say that it was such
01:58:17 ◼ ► a weird show it was a like a Romana Clef about a a Saturday Night Live like show except it was in
01:58:24 ◼ ► LA not New York right but it's the oddest thing is it debuted the exact same year as 30 Rock which
01:58:32 ◼ ► was also about a Saturday Night Live like show except was a zany sitcom instead of an Aaron
01:58:39 ◼ ► Sorkin drama right same year on the same network NBC and I I've never never stopped thinking that
01:58:49 ◼ ► there wasn't room for both wasn't there wasn't and and they both hated that the other was was
01:58:55 ◼ ► right like Aaron Sorkin was very shitty frankly about 30 Rock like he was he was like he and the
01:59:01 ◼ ► press the time like he kind of like thought that they were under beneath him and and I think
01:59:07 ◼ ► everybody at the time because you know this is obviously coming off the success of of the West
01:59:10 ◼ ► Wing and this is his big kind of comeback because he was let go of the West Wing because it was
01:59:15 ◼ ► getting caught in the airport with drugs and so this was kind of his comeback thing and the West
01:59:19 ◼ ► Wing was obviously this massive amazing show and huge hit for NBC and all we knew about Tina Fey
01:59:25 ◼ ► was she was a head writer on SNL and and she was funny in those sketches but this is 2006 so like
01:59:30 ◼ ► she hasn't done the Sarah Palin thing yet right like so it was well and and the other thing about
01:59:35 ◼ ► 30 Rock I don't think there was I don't I can't recall a show that was like 30 Rock no had it had
01:59:41 ◼ ► such a different it did I mean it was a little bit like I would say it got a lot of its inspiration
01:59:48 ◼ ► from Larry Sanders but it was oh yeah right right and faster that we asked him yeah that's the thing
01:59:54 ◼ ► that's insane about 30 I mean again we're talking about Matthew Perry in the studio but the thing
01:59:58 ◼ ► about 30 Rock is the jokes per minute so is so much sane it's just it's even to pack that many
02:00:06 ◼ ► bad jokes that tightly would be difficult let alone good jokes and it was funny but they just
02:00:12 ◼ ► and it took off and it resonated and I kind of feel like it squeezed studio 60 and then
02:00:24 ◼ ► 22 episodes in a year of an hour-long drama which used to be the standard standard it isn't
02:00:31 ◼ ► sustainable when you're aiming at a much more cinematic writing quality you just that there's
02:00:39 ◼ ► a reason why none of today's prestige hour-long dramas do 20 episodes 10 is a lot most of them
02:00:47 ◼ ► like eight and even most of the ones that are eight my number one complaint about almost every
02:00:53 ◼ ► single series I watch these days is I get to the end of the eight series eight series season and
02:00:59 ◼ ► I think that could have been like four episodes right like it just it would have been tighter and
02:01:04 ◼ ► it just better at four 22 was a lot and there were there were some some dead spots in the middle of
02:01:10 ◼ ► that well and I know and and they the hard thing they had to work with too and they dropped a
02:01:15 ◼ ► little bit of it but they were trying to be topical and they were trying to infuse the parts
02:01:18 ◼ ► of the show itself into it which again with 22 episodes like that's hard 30 rock had that same
02:01:24 ◼ ► issue a little bit and they quickly dropped that where they were like we're just going to be a
02:01:28 ◼ ► cartoon which was the perfect approach right trying to kind of make it topical but they'd
02:01:33 ◼ ► come off of the the people behind it obviously Aaron Sorkin but Thomas Schlame he did the West
02:01:37 ◼ ► Wing and he's also on ER which both of those were shows that did I mean ER some some seasons had 26
02:01:43 ◼ ► episodes and ER was a really insane show because the amount of like steady cam and other stuff
02:01:50 ◼ ► yeah like talk about fast-paced show like I don't even know how they did that I really don't but
02:01:55 ◼ ► Studio 60 I think that I mean I it's one of those that's it was funny I was talking about this on
02:02:01 ◼ ► Twitter a couple weeks ago with my friend Ben Dreyfus who was making some sort of comment
02:02:07 ◼ ► about it and and I I contend like I I thought Matt Perry was great I still think the problem
02:02:13 ◼ ► with that show in addition to going up against 30 rock and probably trying to do all that it did
02:02:18 ◼ ► I think if they'd made the emotional center not Matthew Perry and Sarah Paulson but if they'd
02:02:24 ◼ ► really focused on the the two stars who actually had chemistry which were Bradley Whitford and
02:02:28 ◼ ► Amanda Peet I think it would have maybe been a little bit better but I watched the pilot today
02:02:34 ◼ ► in advance of this yeah it holds up it's one of those things that mean way too many network
02:02:39 ◼ ► references which I remember at the time I was like yes congratulations you've seen network and you
02:02:44 ◼ ► and you've mentioned patty shayevsky 500 times and I was like in film school so for me to read
02:02:49 ◼ ► as hell and I'm not going to take exactly exactly it was very much reminiscent of that but you know
02:02:54 ◼ ► they had what's-his-face Judd Hirsch as as the mad as hell kind of thing but I re-watched that pilot
02:03:00 ◼ ► and it was good and Matthew Perry was very very good in it yeah and and that was a show that it's
02:03:06 ◼ ► it's frustrating that it was shot on film the broadcast is is in letterbox but it's only
02:03:13 ◼ ► available in SD like yeah it's very frustrating everywhere yeah it's it's it you can buy it on
02:03:19 ◼ ► itunes you can buy it from amazon but it's only an sd and it I that's what's so it get you're
02:03:24 ◼ ► exactly right it's shot on film so they could remaster it if they had to oh yeah it wouldn't
02:03:29 ◼ ► even be hard like they have the master right there and let's just be that like you and I and a number
02:03:34 ◼ ► of your readers who emailed you in about it like were the only people who watched it it's one of
02:03:39 ◼ ► those shows actually it's amazing they got 22 episodes because they'd given it a full order
02:03:43 ◼ ► from what I recall really early on but the ratings were not there and I think it aired on Tuesdays I
02:03:48 ◼ ► want to say I don't remember what day it aired now maybe it was 30 maybe it was 30 rock it was on
02:03:51 ◼ ► Tuesdays but they were on different nights and I watched it I watched it the whole time like I
02:03:57 ◼ ► watched the entire thing because I'm a huge Aaron Sorkin fan but he was really good on that and and
02:04:02 ◼ ► it was all the Friends actors had a hard time transitioning into other tv roles after Friends
02:04:11 ◼ ► but although I pointed this out to you in our text message earlier today what's interesting to me when
02:04:17 ◼ ► I think about 30 rock 30 rock studio 60 is that the modern corollary for it is the morning show on
02:04:25 ◼ ► Apple TV yeah and and and this season it's gone full soap which I love I love everything they've
02:04:31 ◼ ► done with it I'm like yes embrace the soap of it all but it is one of those things where I was kind
02:04:35 ◼ ► of thinking about it especially after I watched the pilot I was like yeah this is completely this
02:04:39 ◼ ► was 15 16 years ahead of its time for what the morning show and which also stars as Friends star
02:04:46 ◼ ► yeah it's kind of trying to do comes full circle I have to say I never thought of that until you said
02:04:51 ◼ ► it in our text message when we were setting up this broadcast but I was like as soon as you said
02:04:55 ◼ ► it I was like oh my god yeah it feels like the same cinematic universe absolutely feels like
02:04:59 ◼ ► they could mention studio 60 is they could yeah they're both the same network right like it's like
02:05:05 ◼ ► like they're they're both in it and both of them are it's funny are sort of being a riff on on NBC
02:05:10 ◼ ► I always I always think and I've noticed this for a long time I think people underestimate comedy in
02:05:15 ◼ ► every regard I think because they think ah comedy means jokes jokes aren't serious so it's all just
02:05:20 ◼ ► fluff and it's like all comedy is the equivalent of I don't know the Kathy comic strip right or
02:05:27 ◼ ► Garfield right it's not but I think comedy it is so difficult to do well and I think there are so
02:05:37 ◼ ► many cases of actors and actresses who become known for a comedic role and then they do something
02:05:45 ◼ ► dramatic and everybody's like wow this person who I only thought was an idiot clown who did jokes is
02:05:53 ◼ ► actually a good actor Robin Williams is oh yeah example right maybe the canonical example but
02:05:58 ◼ ► you know like when Steve Martin does a serious yeah role he's he's so good and I thought Matthew
02:06:04 ◼ ► Perry had that going and it to me it's like comedy is so hard and timing is so essential right the
02:06:10 ◼ ► exact same actor with the same camera angle and the same lighting and if you deliver the line with
02:06:16 ◼ ► the wrong timing it's not funny at all and if you deliver it with the perfect timing it's hilarious
02:06:22 ◼ ► and that timing even though it has nothing to do with jokes you translate it to drama and it's
02:06:29 ◼ ► like man that is acting and Matthew Perry had it and it's very sad and I we should definitely
02:06:35 ◼ ► mention you know he obviously struggled with addiction to all sorts of stuff really good his
02:06:40 ◼ ► book booze yeah everything from booze to pills to everything in between I didn't read anything about
02:06:52 ◼ ► they don't know what they think apparently he'd been playing pickleball and he came back and then
02:06:56 ◼ ► he got in like the jacuzzi so corner hasn't come back with a report yet but it would make sense
02:07:02 ◼ ► they didn't find any like illicit substances there but it would make sense that potentially because
02:07:07 ◼ ► of other stuff you've done to his body and whatnot that he had a heart attack that's what yeah maybe
02:07:11 ◼ ► it's possible too right so even if he wasn't on something when he died if he wasn't drunk or on
02:07:15 ◼ ► pills or something it's just the ravaging of his body I mean and to be to be honest I mean you
02:07:21 ◼ ► could see it on his face yeah he looked older than 54 I mean he did but man oh man the guy was so
02:07:27 ◼ ► generous I did not read his book Amy did my wife did it's a really good book the audible version
02:07:32 ◼ ► which he reads is also good and and I I encourage people to listen to that it's it's I've upped it
02:07:39 ◼ ► to near I want to now I want to read it I'm sorry Matthew Perry's memory that now I want to read your
02:07:46 ◼ ► book because you died but I just I can't say enough good things about his and so many people
02:07:51 ◼ ► now that he's dead have said all these surprising stories about his his remarkable generosity and he
02:07:57 ◼ ► set up like I used his wealth to create like a halfway house for for just complete strangers to
02:08:03 ◼ ► help them get through their own struggles with whatever addictions they had just genuine
02:08:08 ◼ ► heartfelt nothing but trying to help other people with similar problems just seemed like
02:08:24 ◼ ► shame for sure anyway glad to hear you glad but also not surprised at all to hear you were a big
02:08:32 ◼ ► fan I was yeah I was a big huge studio 60 fan and because I loved Aaron Sorkin I mean look it
02:08:38 ◼ ► first night was the better show like that's and and of the two Keith O'Rourke men shows that
02:08:42 ◼ ► Aaron Sorkin has just made that's also the best one although I I didn't hate the newsroom a lot
02:08:47 ◼ ► of people did but I I didn't but but I'd say I can watch it I could watch Aaron Sorkin right about
02:08:53 ◼ ► I agree watching paint dry on the wall no watch it totally I just say ah this is a crummy Aaron
02:08:58 ◼ ► Sorkin show when's the next episode right exactly exactly but no but studio 60 like I said I was
02:09:03 ◼ ► really glad that I watched the pilot earlier today and and I was it was nice to see him it was also
02:09:08 ◼ ► really weird to see some of the people who were in it like most notably Sarah Paulson who yeah yeah
02:09:13 ◼ ► really yeah who's like like massive massive new success now but I think for a lot of people like
02:09:20 ◼ ► that was that was certainly my first exposure to her I think but yeah people people who've been on
02:09:25 ◼ ► like Lucy Davis who was on studio 60 wrote like a really nice kind of moments of him on
02:09:37 ◼ ► him telling a story on Graham Norton but he's just a really good actor really funny and and
02:09:42 ◼ ► somebody that I think because he was our friend right like that's why I think this is weird this
02:09:46 ◼ ► is one of those weird moments where it in it hits like every generation but it's like this felt like
02:09:52 ◼ ► when Kobe died this was like one of those moments for me I was like that that like I texted my
02:09:56 ◼ ► friends the same way I did when when Kobe Bryant died like it was the exact same sort of thing and
02:10:01 ◼ ► through those rare people that you don't know anything about them other than their personal
02:10:05 ◼ ► struggles and whatnot and what you see on screen but that are just I don't know they're they're
02:10:10 ◼ ► people that we all they were in our homes every day yeah well thank you for joining me on short
02:10:17 ◼ ► notice for a quick turnaround show always good to hear from you Christina I will what should we
02:10:23 ◼ ► shout out where should we point to people oh so go to githubuniverse.com because that's taking
02:10:28 ◼ ► place next week and I'm going to be one of the hosts of that event and so you can check that
02:10:33 ◼ ► out that's going to be on the 8th and the 9th next week and actually there is going to be some
02:10:37 ◼ ► Mac stuff that we talk about that if people are interested in how we do things like doing our our
02:10:43 ◼ ► Mac OS hosted runners there's a there's a little video that's going to happen on one of those days
02:10:49 ◼ ► I think on day two that features yours truly and some very cool data center stuff with Macs that's
02:10:54 ◼ ► that's me giving just a little bit of a well then I'm I am really glad I asked you I will also thank