475: Roasting Our Past Selves


00:00:00   [music]

00:00:08   Hello and welcome to Connected episode 475. It's made possible by our sponsors, Express,

00:00:15   VPN, and Backblaze. My name is Stephen Hackett and I have the pleasure of being joined by

00:00:19   Mr. Mike Hurley.

00:00:21   Roast me, daddy.

00:00:22   That's coming later. How are you?

00:00:25   I'm good. I'm pretty good. I'm excited though, you know?

00:00:28   We got some roasts to do today. It's gonna be awesome. Are you joined by anybody?

00:00:34   No, it's just me and you. It's just me and you. Anybody else that's here is an intruder.

00:00:41   Welcome to the show. Returning champion, Federico Vatici.

00:00:46   Hello, it is me, the champion.

00:00:48   The champion. Congratulations on your championship.

00:00:52   Thank you. Thank you.

00:00:54   It's been a busy week. There's new max out in the world. It's exciting. There's new Logic

00:01:00   and Final Cut updates, but we're going to start with...

00:01:02   Is that exciting?

00:01:04   We're going to start with follow up. We had some anonymous feedback, someone else dealing

00:01:10   with...

00:01:11   So you know it's good.

00:01:12   Dealing with time issues and reminders. So an anonymous listener wrote in, "My version

00:01:17   of Federico's bug suggests today for setting a due date on any day as long as I add a time.

00:01:25   So I will tell reminders Friday at 9am and it will suggest today, even if today is not

00:01:31   Friday."

00:01:32   Yeah, this is what I have.

00:01:35   This is actually what I have. Even if I type in Monday 11am, it says today 10pm.

00:01:43   Oh, yours is always the today.

00:01:46   When it happens, it is random, but frequent. So it might work correctly today, but stop

00:01:52   working correctly tomorrow. And when it is happening, it happens on all dates. It's very

00:01:58   annoying.

00:01:59   P.S. I'm using an English Australian keyboard.

00:02:02   Federico, are you using the English Australian keyboard?

00:02:06   Hello mate.

00:02:07   No. Oh, no, no, I'm using the, the English, US English keyboard. I have three keyboards.

00:02:16   US English, Italian and emoji. That's what I have in my keyboard configuration.

00:02:20   Was that Australian, Steven?

00:02:22   It's hard to say.

00:02:23   Yeah, I think it was supposed to be.

00:02:25   Are Australians known for saying "ello mate"?

00:02:31   Do you not mean "g'day", Steven? I think that's what you're looking for.

00:02:34   I think that's Switzerland. It's some other...

00:02:37   Switzerland!

00:02:38   Switzerland!

00:02:39   Where do you think Switzerland is?

00:02:42   Hard to say.

00:02:44   Um, what I heard from reputable people is that this...

00:02:50   So Craig.

00:02:51   Yeah, I was just texting. It's like, "Craig, come on, dude."

00:02:55   Take it to Craig's house. Remember that?

00:02:57   Oh my God. Yeah, I just take it over to Craig's house. Who said that?

00:03:02   Eddie Q.

00:03:03   Eddie? I mean, it's always Eddie.

00:03:04   Just drives it over. If he has a problem, just drives it over to Craig's house.

00:03:08   But anyway, I heard from, again, reputable people that this bug is due to...

00:03:15   If you're doing what I do, which is set a US region, but then in settings, switch the

00:03:24   first day of the week to Monday.

00:03:26   At least that's what they told me.

00:03:29   And this is what I do, right?

00:03:30   I live in Europe and I don't want to take any feedback on this, but the correct first

00:03:36   day of the week is Monday, not Sunday.

00:03:38   No, there is no argument about this. It doesn't make any sense that the weekend... I've lived

00:03:43   this life, so I'm willing to take it again. Like, it makes absolutely zero sense that

00:03:48   the week would start on Sunday. It doesn't. It starts on Monday. Like, you're in the week

00:03:53   end. Like, Sunday is part of the week end, not the week end start. Like, it's not called

00:03:59   that. Monday is the first day of the week.

00:04:02   It rests on Sunday, and by definition, it's the week end. Like, when people talk to each

00:04:08   other, they're like, "Hey, what are you doing this weekend?" And they're like, "Oh, Saturday,

00:04:11   we're going out for dinner, and Sunday, therefore, it's the weekend."

00:04:14   Yes.

00:04:15   So anyway...

00:04:16   No, like, when people say, "What are you doing this weekend?" They don't mean just Saturday.

00:04:19   Yeah.

00:04:20   Steven, where do you fall on this?

00:04:22   It's not popular with people on Kickstarter, but Sunday, Sunday first.

00:04:29   Okay, why is Sunday the first day of the week?

00:04:33   That's how most calendars in America are.

00:04:35   No, I know, but it's wrong. Why is Sunday the first day of the week?

00:04:38   I guess that's what the calendar says.

00:04:40   Yeah, but, like, what is the logic in living your life that way?

00:04:43   I mean, I agree with you. Sunday is the last day. It's the seventh day. It's the day of

00:04:51   rest. I agree with all that, but I can't fight everyone in America over this.

00:04:55   You can fight big calendar.

00:04:57   I am big calendar, son, and I couldn't fight it.

00:05:00   You are big calendar.

00:05:01   Here's the thing while we're talking about this. Well, two things. One, I have all my

00:05:08   devices set to American English, Sunday the first day. The fitness app does not respect

00:05:14   that. It always puts it at the end, and it's really frustrating.

00:05:18   Secondly, I found the story about Eddie Q. and Craig Federighi, and it's better than

00:05:23   I remember. Can I just read a little bit from a Macworld article?

00:05:25   Of course.

00:05:26   Yeah.

00:05:27   This is talking about, this was written by Suzy over at Macworld back in 2016, and they're

00:05:36   talking about how everyone at Apple, like, used their own betas and stuff. Q had a new

00:05:44   iMac and was going to put the new beta build of OS X on it. This is what the article says.

00:05:52   When Q ran into a problem installing a new build of OS X on that iMac, in fact, he could

00:05:56   tell as a veteran software tester, is that a Q, a veteran software tester?

00:06:01   I mean, let's just go with it.

00:06:03   That the bug might be hard to reproduce. Plus, he was scheduled to take a trip the very next

00:06:08   day. I called Craig up, said, "Have your guys look at this. I think it would be hard to

00:06:13   recreate." He said, "Sure." So I put the iMac in my car and drove it over to Federighi's

00:06:19   house. Q went on his business trip. Federighi's team fixed the problem, and Q got his iMac

00:06:25   back when he returned. Kind of like a Genius Bar for the C-suite. So good. This happened

00:06:32   on an episode of the talk show back in 2016. But Suzy had it transcribed. Very good. You

00:06:39   know, maybe Federighi can fix it again because Gherman is reporting that Apple took a break

00:06:46   from new software to fix bugs on current software.

00:06:50   For a week.

00:06:51   For a week?

00:06:52   Which I'm not criticizing. I've seen people criticize this, but like...

00:06:55   I mean...

00:06:56   Maybe that's what it needs.

00:06:59   It's like when it reminds me of when people sign up for the gym and they go like for a

00:07:04   week and then they stop. It's like, "Yes, I'm gonna get back in shape." And they're

00:07:07   like, "Yes, we're gonna fix bugs, but we're gonna do it for a week."

00:07:12   Yeah, I didn't get ripped in four workouts, so I'm done. I just want to go back to the

00:07:17   Sunday day of the week thing.

00:07:19   Oh yeah.

00:07:20   Because I want to address a piece of feedback that we've already gotten in the Discord,

00:07:23   which I got a ton when I first spoke about this on an episode of Cortex. I don't even

00:07:28   know how long ago, which is Zach said, "Bookends. You have one at either side." That's a great

00:07:35   argument. We're not talking about bookends. We're talking about the weekend.

00:07:38   Damn, son!

00:07:39   Just because there's something else. But do you know what is in the word weekend? End.

00:07:44   End.

00:07:45   What's a bookend?

00:07:46   You know when you want to put stand-up books and you put something on each side of the

00:07:49   books to stop the falling over?

00:07:50   Yeah, like a G4 Cube and a HomePod, for instance.

00:07:53   Who buys books?

00:07:54   We only put bookends on each side of a book because otherwise they would fall over. Monday

00:08:01   to Friday will not fall over if we put Saturday and Sunday at the end.

00:08:06   Oh no, my Monday. It tripped and fell.

00:08:09   Whoa! My Monday fell over. Bookends are a structure of books needing to stand up, but

00:08:18   that's all it is. We don't have to take that and put it onto the word weekend just because

00:08:24   it has end in it. We can't just be like, "Oh, well that makes sense." No, that doesn't make

00:08:30   sense. And if your argument is Sunday and Saturday are on either side of the week because

00:08:36   of bookends, I really need you to take a long look inside at the mirror. Really think about

00:08:41   that as an excuse for something. That doesn't make any sense. You can say for a million

00:08:47   reasons for why Sunday is the first day of the week, but just because bookends? No, that's

00:08:53   not the reason. So Monday is the first day of the week, Saturday and Sunday are the last

00:08:57   two days of the week, the week end. I don't even remember why this came up, but important.

00:09:02   I mean, while we're at it, do you want to talk about the metric system? Do you want

00:09:05   to talk about Fahrenheit? Anything else?

00:09:08   Fahrenheit is just too complicated. It just doesn't make any sense. It feels completely

00:09:13   arbitrary as to what's cold and what's hot.

00:09:17   Please send all feedback to kcless@masadon.social.

00:09:22   Was there anything else you wanted my take on Federico or do you want to move on?

00:09:26   Sure. I mean, ideal dinner time?

00:09:30   I would say the ideal dinner time would be like 8, 9 p.m.

00:09:33   You're doing this to yourself, by the way. I'm just provoking you.

00:09:36   Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm good. I mean, like I'm already so far in, right? Like I'm

00:09:40   shielded now. Like my weekend thought has shielded me from anything else. So like I

00:09:45   can say anything at this point. And so people are so enraged that they can't even hear it.

00:09:48   It's like ringing in their ears, you know?

00:09:51   Well, thank you for doing for doing this, Mike.

00:09:55   Sebastian wrote in, I just bought a 14 inch MacBook Pro to hook up to a studio display

00:10:00   all day long. This is my exact setup. How do you manage battery life considering it's

00:10:05   plugged in all day? My understanding is that plugging the computer in to power all the

00:10:09   time degrades the battery. So there's a link in the show notes. Apple has this really comprehensive

00:10:13   batteries like section of pages on its website, apple.com/batteries. And there's a section

00:10:20   here about maximizing battery life and lifespan. There's some tips for iPods on here. So maybe

00:10:29   they could update this a little bit. But no, it has never been more important to effectively

00:10:36   manage the battery of an iPod than right now.

00:10:39   That's true. Actually, that's a really good point. And what it boils down to is turning

00:10:45   on optimized battery charging. So this has been around since Mac OS Big Sur. And it's

00:10:50   on iOS and watchOS as well. And basically, this is the technology that monitors your

00:10:55   date, your daily charging routine, and it may hold it off 100% until it thinks that

00:11:01   you need to use it. So the most common use case of this is your iPhone, right? So you

00:11:05   wake up at three o'clock in the morning unexpectedly, your phone may only be at 80% is going to

00:11:10   do the last 20% right before your alarm, your alarm goes off. On a Mac that's always plugged

00:11:15   in, it will it will actually like run down the battery in the background to 80% and hold

00:11:22   it there if it needs to. It has a lot of tools to do this. And for years, Apple has also

00:11:26   had a technology in its notebooks, where once the battery is fully charged, it doesn't keep

00:11:32   putting power into it, which is also bad for batteries. So the system is basically going

00:11:37   to take care of itself. And in reality, at least I found this to be the case for me,

00:11:41   even though my MacBook Pro is hooked up to a studio display and a Thunderbolt dock and

00:11:45   everything else, I still use it as a notebook pretty often, right? I'll eject the drives

00:11:51   and unplug it and use it in the house or take it somewhere. And so it does get some cycles.

00:11:55   In fact, since buying my M2 Pro MacBook Pro, I've got 59 cycles on it, which is not a ton

00:12:02   of time. But it's more it's a couple a week. And I'm still at 98% max capacity. So I'm

00:12:09   not worrying about it. I let the system kind of take care of itself. And I don't think

00:12:13   it's something to stay up at night about over anymore. It used to be it used to be a big

00:12:18   problem. But over the years, Apple has really addressed it in a bunch of different ways.

00:12:23   I have two things in this one, something I've feel like I've found anyway, because I do

00:12:28   the same, right? Like I plug my MacBook Air into a studio display. Sometimes you will

00:12:32   open your laptop when it's not plugged in and be like, Oh, it's dead or all the batteries

00:12:36   really low. And I think that that is a symptom of this because like, it being plugged in

00:12:41   doesn't mean it's always charging. And I think sometimes you've unplugged your laptop, you

00:12:46   know, maybe unexpectedly halfway through a day and gone home or whatever. And you were

00:12:49   only at like 30% battery life or something like that is what I think is going on because

00:12:53   it seems pretty random to me. Like I'll be at home on the weekend and I'll open my laptop

00:12:59   and sometimes it's okay. And sometimes it's dead. The other thing is in 2023, we should

00:13:05   not still need to be ejecting drives. Yeah, that's fair. We shouldn't have to still be

00:13:11   doing that. Like computers should have worked this one out because you know, what's never

00:13:15   happened to me if I've gotten that warning that I've had any problem, you know what I

00:13:19   mean? Just like, come on, come on. Especially in the days of APFS, like it should be okay.

00:13:24   We shouldn't have to be ejecting drives anymore. Federico, do you eject drives frequently?

00:13:29   Not frequently. He doesn't have any drives plugged in. This is what I'm wondering. I

00:13:34   do it on Windows because I think you're supposed to do it on Windows. Sometimes I forget and

00:13:40   I always feel bad about it. Like, Oh no, everything's going to break now and it never happened. So

00:13:45   I don't know. It feels like, I think it's like this conspiracy that you're supposed

00:13:49   to eject drives for some reason. It's one of those things that the government wants

00:13:54   us to do. Wow. You're right actually. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I think. I agree. We're

00:14:00   really like just getting to the truth of it all today. Yeah. It's good. This is your final

00:14:06   call for the Relay FM holiday t-shirt. It looks awesome. It's done in the style of like

00:14:13   an ugly holiday sweater. It's got snowflakes and iPods and RSS icons. It's really cool.

00:14:21   You can get in a t-shirt or a sweatshirt or a tank top again, if it's hot where you are

00:14:25   in the holidays. This sale ends on the 13th. So this is the last warning you get on connected.

00:14:33   Go go check it out. It's I've got one. I'm really happy with it. I ordered another one.

00:14:37   I recommend the two greens. I think the greens are really nice, but you can also do blue

00:14:42   or brown or black. Go go check it out. What color did you order Mike? Oh, green. I only

00:14:48   went sweatshirt though. Like to me, this is like this is a sweatshirt product. So I went

00:14:52   with the forest green sweatshirt. Yes. Yes. To me it's like ugly sweater, you know? Yeah.

00:14:58   I want sweatshirts. I think it's kind of fun to like wear this in June, you know, like

00:15:02   kind of ironically maybe. I wouldn't do that, but I'm not going to stop you from doing it.

00:15:08   Okay. That's good. You could wear it on the weekend, whatever day that ends up being,

00:15:12   you know, whenever that is Wednesday, Wednesday, uh, actually gray does that. Doesn't he weekend

00:15:18   Wednesday? Yeah. He made a whole video about it. I have a question for the audience. Mostly

00:15:23   I think this might be one of these crowdsourced things. I'm looking for a budgeting app, but

00:15:29   I want something simple. What I'm hoping exists, right? Cause I've started looking for these

00:15:34   things and they're all so complicated. They want my bank account, login information. Uh,

00:15:39   they want everything about my life and they're really complicated systems. I'm convinced

00:15:45   that somewhere out there is like a really simple, well-made indie developed budgeting

00:15:51   app, but I just don't know what it is. So I am putting out to the world, please tell

00:15:59   me your budgeting app if you use one and go to connectedfeedback.com and send it in there

00:16:06   and I can take a look at them and I'll appreciate it. Yeah. Let us know. Or maybe you develop

00:16:10   one. One, two, three budget application. One, two, three money. One, two, three money. Yeah.

00:16:17   One two, three help me. My wallet is very sick. Uh, go to connectedfeedback.com and

00:16:22   you can send in your suggestions for things that you like and use please. And I appreciate

00:16:27   it. This week, Apple updated logic pro and final cut pro. There's also a final cut event

00:16:33   on Apple's campus, which some of our friends got to go to seemed really cool. The logic

00:16:37   stuff is interesting. I think the biggest thing is a new set of tools for, uh, mastering.

00:16:45   So you can have basically all of your audio analyzed and make like really fine detail

00:16:52   changes on his way out the door. But like most logic stuff, the three of us are not

00:16:58   super well equipped to talk about it because we use it for podcasting and we use about

00:17:04   2% of what logic can do. But if you're into music, that seems really cool. And over in

00:17:09   final cut pro, some nice changes, especially for Apple, Silicon max, uh, even faster exports.

00:17:16   And there are some new tools for organizing, uh, your timeline. And some of these changes

00:17:22   are on the Mac. Some are on the iPad. Some are both. I think for me, the biggest thing

00:17:26   here is I'm glad that the iPad versions are getting updates, uh, cause I don't know how

00:17:31   popular they are, but I'm glad that they are getting updates in step, you know, to a degree

00:17:37   with the Mac versions. That is encouraging to me. My favorite feature from the new final

00:17:42   cut stuff, like just because it's like a thing I can understand and a thing that I've often

00:17:46   wondered why it doesn't do. Um, now when you're playing back a video, the timeline will be

00:17:52   kept like accurate of what's playing. Yeah. Logic can do that too. Logic does do that,

00:17:57   which is why I'm always surprised when final cut doesn't. And so they are now doing that.

00:18:04   So as you're watching a video, the timeline will move along and keep like at speed with

00:18:10   it or whatever. I can't think of the right phrase to use, but I think, you know what

00:18:12   I'm getting at the time the play head will scroll across the timeline as it's actually

00:18:17   playing. And when it gets to the end of it, the timeline will move over. Yeah. It's, it's

00:18:21   an ice and logic. If you're listening to something in the background and then you hear something

00:18:26   you need to fix that the play head and the it's all where you expect it to be. But uh,

00:18:31   yeah, I was, I've always been surprised that wasn't a final cut. Well, it is now it is

00:18:36   now I was sort of disappointed to see, but also not really surprised to see that there's

00:18:41   still no support whatsoever for recording like multiple inputs on the iPad using logic

00:18:48   and I'm disappointed, but not surprised given that this is like a major sort of omission

00:18:52   from the system. And so whenever that feature will come, if it will ever come, I'm sure

00:18:57   it will depend on some like system level addition to iPadOS, but still every time there's like

00:19:03   a big update to logic on the iPad, I still think about it. Like how nice would it be

00:19:08   to, you know, to be able, even if I don't use logic as a, as an editor, but even just

00:19:13   to record multiple inputs at the same time. And so, yeah, that's always kind of disappointing,

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00:21:16   Apple has no plans for a 27 inch iMac with Apple Silicon. It's a statement that Apple

00:21:22   gave while two reviewers as part of the iMac review, we'll touch on the iMac and MacBook

00:21:30   Pro reviews in a bit but it's kind of a lot of what you already know. But I think maybe

00:21:35   this is honestly the most interesting part of it all. It's an interesting statement

00:21:41   for Apple to make and to make so cleanly. I think they tried to make it clear during

00:21:49   the presentation but now have had to double down on it. But even now there's still like

00:21:55   tin foil hat, right? Like, oh a 27 inch? Who knows? I mean. But I know what I feel. I feel

00:22:02   from reading your article, Steven, you also kind of feel what I feel which is like the

00:22:06   idea of a bigger iMac is like dead for now. I think so. And like it's not that they have

00:22:12   a secret 30 inch that they're getting ready to do and they're gonna like trick us. There've

00:22:17   been rumors that Apple was playing with the idea and I believe that. Like two things can

00:22:22   be true at once. Germin's reporting that a larger than 27 inch iMac was worked on on

00:22:28   and off in the past and we're never gonna see it, right? I think it makes, while it

00:22:34   stings because a lot of people like the big all-in-one and I wrote this piece earlier

00:22:40   this week outlining like the iMac's progression from consumer desktop to like professional

00:22:46   workstation and now Apple has like ripped it back into the consumer landscape and that

00:22:53   kind of stinks if you like using a big iMac. And you know I used a 5k iMac for years. I

00:22:58   used an iMac Pro for years. I love the form factor but I understand where Apple's coming

00:23:04   from and I think it's clear that the way forward, at least for now, is in Apple's mind a studio

00:23:13   display and some combination of MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, Mac Studio, Mac Pro. Like kind of

00:23:20   pick which one meets your needs and there's a lot of upside to that, right? The upside

00:23:26   that the display could serve you across multiple computers. Mine's already done it. I had a

00:23:31   Mac Studio hooked up, now I have a MacBook Pro. Very often the screen would still be

00:23:38   good but the computer aged out. I mean our friend Jason Snell, if you watch videos of

00:23:42   him on the upgrade social channels, there's an iMac Pro on the shelf behind him. Like

00:23:48   that screen's incredible, that computer was incredible but they're married together forever

00:23:54   and I really like what he said in his review about target display mode. That could be an

00:23:58   escape hatch for this but that doesn't seem to be the direction they're going. And so

00:24:03   we're kind of in this place but I'm glad Apple came out and said it. They've been hinting

00:24:08   at it for a long time. You mentioned John Turness, he said it's about the 24 inch. It's

00:24:14   the perfect size and resolution. It's the perfect size and resolution both for the 4K

00:24:19   and 5K like replacements. The Mac Studio was compared to the high end iMac when it was

00:24:24   introduced. Apple's been building this case for a while but clearly they thought we just

00:24:29   got to come out and say it. So they have. I don't really feel much for it. I'm just

00:24:34   happy to know it. I'm not sad about it or whatever. It's just like this is good information

00:24:41   to have. I'm a little sad because I liked the form factor but also... I liked it when

00:24:47   I had it but I don't want it or need it now. Yeah I think overall people have more options

00:24:53   now and that's a good thing. And this is just a reflection of kind of where they are as

00:25:00   a line. You know as a whole strategy. I don't know. It does feel the iMac like it's the

00:25:08   ideal size for an all-in-one computer and there's already plenty of configurations that

00:25:14   you can get. I don't know. I feel like if you want to go bigger you're the type of user

00:25:18   who probably are not... like if you want a bigger iMac chances are pretty good you're

00:25:25   the type of user who has a more complex setup than an iMac anyway. I don't know. It could

00:25:31   be wrong. Just my perspective. I mean yeah I mean I you know having both the 5k and the

00:25:37   iMac Pro and now using a notebook with a serial display like it is nice that I have more flexibility

00:25:44   now that if I want to change out this computer the rest of my setup can stay the same and

00:25:49   I just drop in a new laptop or a Mac Studio or whatever it may be and that is pretty nice

00:25:55   and it gives me a little bit more future-proofing I feel like in my setup where before when

00:26:01   I moved from an iMac to an iMac Pro or the iMac Pro to the Mac Pro it's like oh I gotta

00:26:06   like rebuild everything like my whole desk is coming apart everything is changing and

00:26:12   this kind of gets away from that I think I think that's good. I wonder really if like

00:26:18   the time of all-in-ones is over like anyway I love the iMac like the 24 inch iMac I don't

00:26:26   I really love it. Steven loves it a surprising amount I'll read from your article I think

00:26:30   the 24 inch iMac will go down in history as one of the most special computers Apple has

00:26:34   ever made earning a right to sit next to my G4 Cube and 20th anniversary Mac. I love it

00:26:41   I don't know if I love it that much like the orange speaks to me it clearly does like I

00:26:45   love my I love the iMac like I think it is a fantastic design and it's super fun and

00:26:51   it's like the perfected version of that kind of machine that Apple had been making for

00:26:56   like a decade or more like the the all-in-one you know since they went to the polycarbonate

00:27:02   I mean here's the thing if the iMac did not exist today there's no way Apple would make

00:27:07   it. Good point. Right there's no way that they would go from no all-in-one to hey here's

00:27:12   this thing we put the computer and display together the concept is an old one and they've

00:27:17   continued to make it cuz the iMac has great heritage and I think it is popular in a lot

00:27:21   of areas of their market but it is distinctly a product from a different time and especially

00:27:30   in the era of Apple Silicon when you can get a MacBook Pro that can do everything you need

00:27:35   and more it it doesn't make as much sense as it once did and and if you wanted it I'm

00:27:40   sorry but I think that's how it is. Yeah I mean but the the realistic point is if you

00:27:48   wanted it you will be happy with a studio display and something else like you will like

00:27:54   why you know like I would just say like why would you why do you really need it all to

00:27:58   be one? Hmm. Like you might want that but you don't need that and you will get you I believe

00:28:05   that you will have a longer and better computer life with these component parts as opposed

00:28:12   to the all-in-one. I think so too and I think it's made a little bit harder because the

00:28:17   24-inch is so cool like Jason I think said in his review like I know he said it to us

00:28:22   while we're just talking about it I wish I had a place for it in my life like I did I

00:28:27   was the same thing I wish I had a place for the iMac in my household or in my office somewhere

00:28:32   because I think it is cool and fun and that that makes us a little feel a little bit worse

00:28:38   I think maybe if they had not redesigned it so effectively that it'd be a little easier

00:28:44   to let go of but they didn't and so a lot of us look at it be like dang that's a cool

00:28:49   Mac but it just doesn't fit anywhere for me. Are you saying that for a Mac to have a to

00:28:56   like to be in your studio it needs to have a quote place? I don't I feel personally attacked

00:29:03   personally attacked. You have a lot of Macs in that studio. Yeah but they're all old you

00:29:08   know a new computer. Okay this isn't old enough yet? Not old enough yet in a few years you

00:29:13   know I can I can round up all the M1s. What is the newest Mac in your collection? Probably

00:29:19   the trash can right? No I have a touch bar MacBook Pro. Okay. So that's I think it's

00:29:25   a 2016 or 2017 but that computer is garbage so I don't know if it actually counts as collectible.

00:29:32   Why do you have was that was that yours? Like why? No it was someone's they were using and

00:29:38   they replaced it with something else and they were like do you want this and I was like

00:29:41   sure and then you know I wiped it and put it on the shelf. And now you have it. No I

00:29:44   have it the keyboard's real bad. Touch bar though you know what I'm saying? Yeah woohoo

00:29:48   no no no not great. Do you have any thoughts that you would like to share on the MacBook

00:29:56   Pro and iMac reviews? Yeah I mean we'll link to all of Jason's stuff I think y'all did

00:30:01   a really good job on upgrade this week talking through them. I think in a lot of ways the

00:30:06   iMac is easy because it's what we came to expect and the biggest iMac news by far in

00:30:12   this cycle is the no 27 inch bit like the reviews like yeah it's what we had but it's

00:30:18   much faster and I'm glad they've continued down that road I think it proves that they

00:30:21   did a good job redesigning it. The MacBook Pro is definitely the more interesting of

00:30:26   the the two. The base M3 seems like a reasonable way to go if you don't have the budget for

00:30:33   something more nicely spec'd. I agree with Jason with what he said about once you start

00:30:41   specing up you should just go to the pro because it's not that much more money and you get

00:30:45   extra thunderbolt port and more displays out and all that stuff. I'm just I'm just excited

00:30:50   about Apple Silicon and their continual this continued upgrade path that they've proven

00:30:57   that they can make these things faster and faster year over year and we you know we are

00:31:04   now in the phase of Apple Silicon like yes it is not the jump it was from Intel to Apple

00:31:07   Silicon that's a one-time thing but now they've proven three times in a row or I guess two

00:31:13   times in a row the M2 and the M3 that they can make meaningful updates over time and

00:31:18   I think it's super interesting their focus on the GPU architecture of this time with

00:31:23   the memory stuff they're doing and the dynamic caching I think is what they're calling it

00:31:28   but that they have control of the whole stack now means they can do these different things

00:31:34   and it kind of opened my mind with the possibility of like well what if you know an M4 and M5

00:31:40   at some point in the future like hey this is the one that we really worked on the neural

00:31:46   network stuff if that becomes increasingly important or this is the year that hey we

00:31:50   really spend a lot of time and effort in our silicon to do some new thing that we know

00:31:54   we haven't thought of yet at this point and that's exciting when they were using Intel

00:32:00   parts and AMD parts and Nvidia parts before that they were limited in what they could

00:32:04   do and you saw at the end of the Intel era they're doing the t1 and the t2 chip to like

00:32:09   shoehorn functionality into the system and now that they control all of it clearly they

00:32:16   said you know years ago the M3 generation is we're gonna do this GPU thing we're really

00:32:21   gonna go after this in a new way and to me that's the most exciting thing about the M3

00:32:28   line not that I need the GPU performance I certainly don't but the fact that Apple can

00:32:34   spend time in select areas and like move the ball forward in different areas at different

00:32:39   rates is just really exciting and I'm just as enthusiastic about this processor transition

00:32:45   as I was three years ago because they keep they keep delivering and boy the M3 Ultra

00:32:50   is just gonna be bonkers when it comes out great I can't wait yeah man I think I actually

00:32:54   kind of look forward to this future you've proposed that I hadn't really thought about

00:32:59   yet like basically I don't want to have to keep thinking about speed as being the thing

00:33:06   right just like raw processor speed because like it's kind of not that exciting I think

00:33:11   like ultimately it's kind of more what the chips can do I think which is more interesting

00:33:16   and also over time like those the speed gains will get smaller and smaller unless they brute

00:33:23   force it like it feels like they're having to do a little bit of at the moment to kind

00:33:27   of get some speed gains is that we'll just put more cores in there but the idea of like

00:33:31   hey this chip does this very specific thing and like I would say that the graphic stuff

00:33:38   this time is the thing that's the most interesting to me which is like we were able to build

00:33:43   some specific technology to make gaming more possible on the Mac than it's maybe been in

00:33:51   any of its modern time right like there are there are like actual legit AAA games that

00:33:58   run well on the Mac now that is just weird because it just feels like it was never going

00:34:07   to be possible yeah but like we are in that world now because they spent a bunch of time

00:34:12   working on GPU stuff and like targeted ray tracing as a thing like they they've they

00:34:18   specifically targeted exactly and the ultra which obviously will be a leading indicator

00:34:24   or whatever right like it's going to be the most powerful but that has the potential to

00:34:29   be powerful as as powerful as maybe some previous gen in video cards which is madness if that's

00:34:37   true so I look forward to the M3 ultra because it could be it could be some really cool stuff

00:34:43   and then maybe Federico can can give up his gaming PC except for the fact that windows

00:34:48   is still needed for games yeah yeah that's the other thing right you have the OS you

00:34:53   have metal right not all game engines or developers want to deal with with like Apple's unusual

00:34:59   API stack for you Mike I mean I know we've talked about you wanting to maybe move to

00:35:07   a Mac studio and I think you said this basically locks you in for the M3 like you're not interested

00:35:12   in the M2 generation at this point for that machine I just think that it seems silly right

00:35:18   now to to buy an M2 Macs studio like I just think that I would will come to regret that

00:35:25   when I my M1 Max is is fine right and so I think that I would buy it and then be really

00:35:32   sad that I bought it so I might as well just wait now because it will happen eventually

00:35:37   even if it's another year but like I can wait another year because really what I want to

00:35:41   do I'm not I don't care so much about the chip but I care about the form factor like

00:35:45   I want to get away from having a laptop as a desktop and just have a desktop as a desktop

00:35:50   right for my recording and like production machine but now I'm kind of like well I might

00:35:56   as well wait a little bit longer get the more powerful chip and then have a longer life

00:36:02   from it it's kind of what I'm thinking so I'm just gonna wait out a little bit longer

00:36:05   and I don't think it'll be a year I mean I would expect sometime early 24 we see some

00:36:13   other M3 machines like they didn't do anything with the Mac mini or the Mac studio or the

00:36:20   Mac Pro and I guess some of that depends on when the ultra is ready but I don't think

00:36:26   I don't think we're gonna be talking in November next year about how they finally brought the

00:36:29   M3 to the studio I think overall the M2 generation will be cut short by this for whatever reason

00:36:37   like my M2 Pro MacBook Pro was on sale less than like 10 months and you know it's like

00:36:44   oh that is weird and it kind of makes it this like weird relic of this generation that was

00:36:49   that was shorter than the others yeah and who knows why that happened but I suspect

00:36:56   Apple wants to get you know the M3 stuff rolled out to to the rest of the line and I don't

00:37:04   know why the Mac mini didn't get it but obviously the studio is waiting is waiting on the ultra

00:37:10   I reckon the Mac mini and the iMac will be on two year could be cycles it definitely

00:37:17   definitely could be and I think that's fine for both of those machines it's a little weird

00:37:21   for the the M2 Pro Mac mini but I think it's mostly okay you know those are sort of the

00:37:28   lower end desktops I do think they want to get the M3 into the MacBook Air I don't know

00:37:36   why they would hold that back it's the most popular Mac they sell more than anything else

00:37:41   I don't know why you would hamstring that machine I mean there was like this theory

00:37:45   floating around that maybe we even talked about it or maybe I talked with John on App

00:37:49   Stories but like could they leave the MacBook Air on the M2 and they distinguish the Air

00:37:54   Pro a little bit more and I just I don't see that being the smart move I think I think

00:38:00   they finally fixed the MacBook Air right it was bad for a long time and people put up

00:38:05   with it and they had to like bring it back in 2018 with the retina display and all that

00:38:09   stuff like the MacBook Air is in such a good place why would you hamstring it now like

00:38:14   why would you give up some of the gains you've made in that product line I think that but

00:38:20   there are two there are two things right you have strategy and you have availability and

00:38:27   you know like you said about like oh it's just 10 months between these two chips well

00:38:30   I think this is the thing that just because Apple aren't reliant on Intel doesn't mean

00:38:35   that they're not reliant on production issues yeah like that was what Intel wasn't just

00:38:40   like we don't want to make the chips yeah they just couldn't like they were struggling

00:38:44   to to make the advancements necessary and now their eggs are in the TSMC basket yeah

00:38:49   or like a whatever it is right like whatever you know who whatever or whoever could be

00:38:54   the delay Apple could be the delay right like they might be struggling to get the design

00:38:59   the way that they exactly want it to be or whatever right and so there is a I could see

00:39:05   a possibility where it's not like they would necessarily want to keep the MacBook Air on

00:39:10   M2 but they might need to I don't know could be I mean yeah it could be a simple game of

00:39:17   we can't make as many of them as we need right now and if it is the most popular computer

00:39:21   which we know it is well they need the most for them yeah exactly and so if they haven't

00:39:26   got the yield that they need then maybe maybe they do need to and so like I just feel like

00:39:32   the idea that it's all going to be clean now because it's Apple silicon I don't think it

00:39:37   will be necessarily as as reliable as that thought that this would just be simple now

00:39:44   that Apple controls it I'm sure it will be better but you could still end up falling

00:39:50   into these weird little pockets of things that will occur just because of the way the

00:39:55   production works and I'm sure they don't love that right I'm sure Apple wish they could

00:40:01   do exactly what they wanted but even with all their money and all their power you are

00:40:06   limited by outside factors that's a really good point yeah and I think the 15 inch M2

00:40:11   there is like a weird side effect of that like it was one year after the 13 inch that

00:40:16   we all love and like kind of a weird machine and maybe maybe it was a stopgap right until

00:40:22   they could have enough M3s on the shelf to do this I don't know there are untold things

00:40:26   we can point out and be like why is it this way right like why have AirPods Max not been

00:40:30   updated yeah well yeah why did the HomePod sit there for so long you know like and then

00:40:35   there was and then there was another one right there these things happen all the time like

00:40:39   all the time it can't be as clear as we want it to be and it's not as clear as Apple would

00:40:44   want it to be because that is just the realities of large scale manufacture so did any of us

00:40:48   order anything yes what what no he's trolling he's trolling yeah I'm excited I have a new

00:40:55   thunderbolt dock oh okay that's not this you've kind of gone outside of the remit of the question

00:41:02   like yeah I have also ordered things on Amazon in the past month I bought some groceries

00:41:07   yesterday but it's not who cares you know I ordered it I ordered it from the OTJ store

00:41:12   nice my favorite shop in America this is actually part of a connected or remastered listener

00:41:20   I don't remember I think we're a master listener sent us sent me this incredible email about

00:41:26   a custom version of the Asus ROG Ally they did with a thunderbolt dock strapped to the

00:41:34   back of the console actually was a steam deck they attached with velcro a very slim thunderbolt

00:41:41   dock to the back of the steam deck and I thought well that's interesting I kind of want to

00:41:45   try it myself so I asked John can you buy this dog for me and he did and he shipped

00:41:50   it to me and then I realized I cannot attach this to the back of the ROG Ally because the

00:41:55   ROG Ally has vents for airflow but I realized you know this this dock is actually pretty

00:42:02   sweet and much much more compact than my card digit is for so that's what I'm using now

00:42:07   it's what is what it's the pluggable thunderbolt dock it's only sold in America for some reason

00:42:14   it's very very compact it looks like an SSD it's really really small as an external power

00:42:19   supply unit of course all thunderbolt dogs have but it's incredible so that's what I

00:42:25   ordered not a MacBook I did not order a MacBook either I'm hanging on to my M2C and I'm going

00:42:31   to buy the M2 Pro, MacBook Pro the 14 inch at least until the M4 I mean I'm really happy

00:42:38   with this machine it was also very expensive I'm not looking forward to spending that sort

00:42:44   of money again but it did give me sort of a chance to reflect on like how my one Mac

00:42:50   lifestyle is going and our friend Chance Miller is actually getting rid of his Mac Studio

00:42:55   and MacBook Air just going to a 14 inch in space black and he says in his article that

00:43:00   it was inspired by me so if he hates it he's going to send me an invoice for any financial

00:43:05   loss he incurs I do not accept that invoice just for the record I will not be paying that

00:43:11   Chance is a hater to me no on the MacBook Air like two days before this he's like the

00:43:17   MacBook Air is the best Mac of all time and then he's like oh forget that I bought a MacBook

00:43:21   Pro I think he was swayed by the space black well the really dark gray yeah yeah that's

00:43:26   not as dark as the as the joys really dark gray okay who doesn't who doesn't so yeah

00:43:31   so I've been very happy with my machine it's served me very well since getting it and it

00:43:36   will continue to serve me well for the foreseeable future I have one last thing I would like

00:43:41   to mention before we move on okay which is just in relation to Federico's dock purchase

00:43:45   something that I have no noticed recently that is the fundamental difference between

00:43:50   Federico and myself and I've noticed this listening to this and through like listening

00:43:56   to app stories and all these kinds of things okay Federico is way more trusting than me

00:44:02   of technology from companies he's never heard of yes dude yes well pluggable is kind of

00:44:09   popular yeah but you're like so there's this gaming phone and you know what I mean like

00:44:15   there's I've heard of this gaming phone and I've bought an adapter dude that adapter is

00:44:21   I don't that adapter right like I'm sure it works great and lots of other people use it

00:44:27   and it works great but like I'm just like look everybody knows Mike's worried about

00:44:32   things catching on fire I don't know why I am the way that I am but I just am and so

00:44:36   like for this reason I'm like really hesitant about this like anything that can like has

00:44:42   power related to it and yeah what do you what do you feel about buying glasses with displays

00:44:50   in them that you put on your face powered by USB C from a company you've never heard

00:44:54   of is that something you would do Mike I hypothetically if we had a friend who was into that for some

00:44:59   reason well I mean I did look at when Federico was originally talking about it I looked at

00:45:04   the web page and I was like hmm and then I backed away so I think I would do it but I

00:45:10   just didn't want to I don't have a hard and fast rule to this thing but it's just like

00:45:16   a general thing and nor nor am I saying I just want to make this completely clear to

00:45:20   Federico and everybody else I'm not saying that Federico is doing something wrong or

00:45:25   bad or strange it is a difference between the two of us that I have noticed that that

00:45:31   like Federico is is just more willing to try than I am I'm like I don't trust anything

00:45:39   I was just on the X real website and they have something like their stickers that you

00:45:45   can change the color of your extra glasses this is new apparently Navy what are they

00:45:51   stickers are they like little they like clip-on I think they're like little it's hard to say

00:45:56   when they announce the X real air 2 they also had this as a thing that you could I think

00:46:01   I think they're actual stickers but cool anyways yeah batteries glow in the dark I've been

00:46:09   hearing the glow-in-the-dark stickers are all the rage yeah they're also amazing I put

00:46:14   glow-in-the-dark stickers on my magic keyboard and now I can see key caps at night when I'm

00:46:20   you know does it last for the glow-in-the-dark enough to fall asleep yeah okay a couple hours

00:46:27   for sure just imagine Apple Apple if you're listening this man put glow-in-the-dark stickers

00:46:35   on your keyboard because you won't make a backlit version just think about how that

00:46:39   makes you feel Apple it doesn't feel good does it it doesn't feel good to us either

00:46:42   and also Apple maybe he'll send you a picture of these glow-in-the-dark stickers and you'll

00:46:47   see that every single one of them is just in a different angle and then then think about

00:46:54   how you feel it gives a bit of charm to the whole thing I think all the keys are a little

00:47:01   crooked and you know what I appreciate about that and I feel like I would go this way too

00:47:06   I would try and then like I get a couple in and be like I forget it I'm never gonna do

00:47:11   this right and they'll always be like the one that's crooked so might as well just just

00:47:16   see where the chips exactly 14 stickers and a laptop looks better than three stickers

00:47:20   on a laptop look you look you may think you may think my setup is complicated but I'm

00:47:24   really I'm living a life over here I just have my iPad and I have my Thunderbolt hubs

00:47:29   and docks and I got my USB cables and every week there's a new cable like oh new cable

00:47:34   and I tried the UK every week that's a new cable and and I and I got my glasses and I

00:47:41   don't bother my my girlfriend sleeping at night with the glass I'm having the time of

00:47:45   my life over here and I as a consumer of your voracious consumer of your content appreciate

00:47:51   it you know I mean what's it what's the alternative like just become the guy who talks about a

00:47:58   single topic it's like yeah Macintosh is who wants that today we had aqua you hire sure

00:48:08   that guy you know what I'm saying I hear there's a market for it let's move on please this

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00:49:53   it is one of the first things I put on a new machine because even though I'm diligent with

00:49:58   time machine and and other backup strategies I want my data safe and sound off site if

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00:51:22   blaze for saving us from data disasters and for their support of the show we are reaching

00:51:28   back into history and we are roasting ourselves and each other from the year 2014 we're approaching

00:51:41   10 years of the good old days of the ages of these home screens I don't know why this

00:51:49   image reappeared again but it did I found it and I found it in dropbox and right okay

00:51:55   then for the hashtag engagement and you posted it on the connected Mastodon account and this

00:52:00   came up because John then sent it to our group thread and he made a comment about it and

00:52:05   I was like oh this could be a fun thing to look at in the future so I proposed that we

00:52:10   take a look at these home screens and roast each other's life choices from 10 years ago

00:52:15   yeah I would like to make an overall just like a two for one roast on YouTube if that's

00:52:23   okay to begin and then we can maybe go that you're on the big phone or not well that's

00:52:28   part of it the other thing is that you two were in I need somewhere to swipe club and

00:52:35   you had the empty row at the bottom like oh how could I possibly swipe to the next screen

00:52:41   without an empty row at the bottom of my own but doesn't know where to go my thumb I'll

00:52:46   accidentally open too many apps if I don't have a an empty bottom row that was my second

00:52:52   thing that I wanted to point out that was a thing that people used to do back in the

00:52:55   day some people still do it I think sure they do I'm sure they do yeah the thing that jumped

00:53:01   out at me was you were using a plus phone so 2014 this would have been the 6s or the

00:53:09   sit no some of the six the six so you're on the six plus this was in the very short period

00:53:14   of time until it was all agreed that I was right and the decisions yes made because I

00:53:19   switched to the six plus mid cycle we both did which my wife was very excited about no

00:53:27   I could tell you nobody was more excited than me I don't know I was I was living my very

00:53:31   this is where Mike was right came from is right here right here I have a no I have an

00:53:36   opening statement okay in the same spirit as yours Mike really it's not a roast to any

00:53:43   of us but it's an overall feeling I get that this I what is 2014 iOS 9 8 I was 8 I was

00:53:52   9 I was 8 it looks bad like just the the and we're not looking any apps are I just the

00:54:00   home screens but the simple thing of like oh if your icon has artwork on it he's been

00:54:05   pushed all the way out to the edge like the do icon of the time zones icon why they pushed

00:54:09   out so far you know it just something about the design language at this time feels a little

00:54:15   awkward in hindsight there's also like part of it is when you look at these home screens

00:54:20   something doesn't seem right and like part of that is like some of these icons are from

00:54:26   a different time you know they've got like texture and and shadows and some of them don't

00:54:34   and so that still looks really weird like the day one icon isn't flat like it's got

00:54:40   the Instagram icon the Google Maps icon has still got that like the Instagram one is meant

00:54:44   to look like a look at that like mental at least the Instagram icon is going for a thing

00:54:49   you know the Google Maps one they just couldn't be bothered to have updated it so it still

00:54:52   got that little like hey this stands up from the home screen you know the worst one though

00:54:57   the worst icon on this image is todoist yeah I don't know what they were doing back there

00:55:03   that is a bad that is a bad I can't just Federico that's using it this was before I switched

00:55:10   Mike was using Wunderlist actually also OmniFocus and also clear and also do and also silo Mike

00:55:19   had a real problem look look it is well known that Mike still lives his life this way don't

00:55:24   talk about third person don't do third person okay well you know we were all talking about

00:55:30   Mike so I just continued Mike well you know Federico thinks please tell me more about

00:55:36   what Federico thinks Mike would like to know the the thing is I've forgotten what I was

00:55:41   gonna say but oh at the time I think Steven me and you were trying Wunderlist as a shared

00:55:48   task manager we were because this relay was very new in this moment and we were still

00:55:54   doing so we were both still working jobs I think at this point I definitely was and you

00:56:00   may have been or maybe you're on your way out of the door at the bank but it was yeah

00:56:06   we were figuring this out together now like we have a meeting what's the weekend we know

00:56:10   we're obviously see from the fact that Wunderlist was on my home screen but not mine was that

00:56:15   I cared about the tasks of our company wow and you didn't that's what I can see what

00:56:23   you'll also notice is group me group me was huge at the time we used it as a group chat

00:56:30   that group chat eventually moved to slack so like this is also in that in-between period

00:56:36   where we're not sure if the group chat should go away or we should move to slack which is

00:56:41   also very funny to think about it is I have some things on here that I don't recognize

00:56:47   mostly on Federico's so okay let me educate you then please so what was next with the

00:56:57   little oh see Mike was looking for a for an expense tracker and budgeting app next was

00:57:04   a really cool one made by yeah I want to say indie developer based on based in Switzerland

00:57:10   Sandra Panisi Sandra is now making a bunch of widget apps I believe some is coming out

00:57:17   soon with an interactive widget game this was a really really cool nice Federico is

00:57:22   still here it was last updated two years ago it doesn't look good at the time at the time

00:57:29   at the time it was it was good what let me tell you nice after eight months I find adding

00:57:34   expenses in next so fast and intuitive I struggle to use any other expense tracker said Federico

00:57:40   to teach you if max stories dotnet which is the very first thing in the app store description

00:57:44   incredible see so Sandra if you're out there can you just update the app make it now again

00:57:52   for me that'd be good right you can even take the name one two three yeah you can have it

00:57:57   one two three budget one two three next what else Stephen so I know Pinterest pinner was

00:58:04   a pinboard app rest in peace nuzzle you have a lot of reading apps here pinner nuzzle can

00:58:09   I ask do you know why you were using Pinterest enough then that it went on your home screen

00:58:14   I think I think at some point I was using Pinterest to save like a cool examples of

00:58:22   app interfaces yeah like like dribble yeah I was using it like dribble I think I think

00:58:31   because then I wouldn't later I sort of wiped my Pinterest account yeah account I think yeah

00:58:38   yeah that's I think what I was doing at the time okay we were all using or experimenting

00:58:43   with pinboard in 2014 so that makes sense um quip and clips what are I kind of was a

00:58:52   collaborative yeah it was one of the many things we tried to replace Google I did to

00:58:57   yeah I did it was a it was acquired I want to say was acquired by Salesforce probably

00:59:03   maybe yep Salesforce we gave up though I don't remember why but like we got to a point like

00:59:09   we tried for a long time and then I think we're all just like this is this isn't better

00:59:14   yeah yeah quip was trying to do sort of like Google Docs notion before all those tools

00:59:21   it was pretty cool that's about the time around the time when Dropbox paper also came out

00:59:26   yeah I think and clips was a clipboard manager made by the same developers of dispatch the

00:59:35   email client who also happened to be if I recall correctly the same developers behind

00:59:42   do so yeah okay oh my god I forgot that yeah dispatch was the this is a email triage no

00:59:53   no it was no it was not the email triage app that was that was something else actually

00:59:59   version two of that app you're thinking about came out a couple of years ago I don't recall

01:00:04   the name I'll find it this I think they also did that no dispatch was the app with with

01:00:10   all the app integrations before they they had all the URL schemes for like sending an

01:00:17   email to OmniFocus or something like they had the the action builder that was before

01:00:23   like extensions before shortcuts and all of that like URL schemes were still huge at the

01:00:27   time and if you can see like I don't have launch center pro in my in my doc because

01:00:33   I was like 2013 2014 I was all in on editorial which is also on Mike's home screen yeah Mike

01:00:41   was also doing the workflows in the tutorial I was teaching pill don't know what to tell

01:00:45   you like you were using it so I started using it to I don't know write my notes in I guess

01:00:50   I don't know what to say like well I mean here's the thing that's worth remembering

01:00:54   back then Apple notes wasn't good no so you needed somewhere to keep your notes and at

01:00:59   that time I think I was just using editorial as like my notes app the like back then everybody

01:01:06   needed a markdown text editor just for their notes because yes there wasn't a good place

01:01:12   to put your notes so the app you're thinking about Mike was in fact called the triage and

01:01:17   it was the app that like with it with a swipe server like tinder it lets you either archive

01:01:23   or keep new email messages yeah version 2 came out came out a while back well let's

01:01:31   talk no I have one last thing okay similarly to Pinterest do you remember why you were

01:01:36   using dig no no you put the app on the home screen man I have no idea what I was doing

01:01:44   all right dig this may have been the time when dig like reinvented itself yes yes can

01:01:51   we talk about the literal elephant in the room we all have Evernote on our home screen

01:01:58   and yours Federico is on the dock yeah yeah I was man I was big on Evernote at the time

01:02:08   I was so big on every in fact I realized something about myself and and I don't know this segment

01:02:14   is funny because I feel like I'm also roasting myself this is a new flavor of roasting and

01:02:18   I can't well that was actually part of what I was thinking about this one is like we would

01:02:22   also be able to roast ourselves as we are we are debuting a new format the self roast

01:02:28   this is what we're doing today I realized that some things some things in our lives

01:02:36   are are cyclical right we keep doing the same things over and over if you think about it

01:02:42   Steven this is where you come in you say time is a flat circle you love using that quote

01:02:47   and I will accept it because I realized a few weeks ago that what I was doing with edit

01:02:53   with Evernote 10 years ago it's pretty much what I'm doing with Obsidian now for example

01:03:00   for example at the time I used to rent a Mac Mini at Mac Mini colo so I had way before

01:03:09   next day before max stadium was called max stadium they were called Mac Mini colo and

01:03:14   you could rent a virtual well not a physical Mac Mini yeah an actual one yeah an actual

01:03:21   one and and I had a personal Mac Mini at Mac Mini colo and I was using it to to keep Evernote

01:03:31   always running in the background like that Mac Mini had Apple mail and Evernote always

01:03:36   open and I will use Hazel on that remote Mac Mini sitting somewhere in the data center

01:03:42   in Las Vegas to run some Apple scripts so that I think I was doing two things one I

01:03:51   had Apple scripts to process messages in the mail app and put them somewhere in Evernote

01:03:59   automatically then I had Apple scripts to take a look at a folder of markdown text files

01:04:08   and save those quick notes in my Evernote inbox I also had a whole paperless workflow

01:04:16   this was a thing at the time I had a paperless workflow that used Hazel to do some OCR on

01:04:23   PDF documents that I saved in Evernote and log those PDF expenses somewhere I think in

01:04:31   Dropbox I had this all set up and I realized a couple of weeks ago you know you're still

01:04:37   doing the same things now ten years later just in a slightly different fashion now I

01:04:41   have a Mac Mini in my living room but I do have Hazel and I have shortcuts instead of

01:04:47   Apple scripts and whenever I save a text file to a folder it gets appended to a note in

01:04:53   Obsidian so really the apps are different but the limit some of the limitations are

01:04:58   still the same and some of the solutions haven't really changed in a decade it's kind of good

01:05:05   to just know that about yourself you know but like you're always gonna do this yes no

01:05:10   matter what you know and you just kind of know that and move forward Twitter in the

01:05:16   dark there Mike you already had Google Chrome in your yeah baby this is the great Chrome

01:05:26   experience look at that icon look at that icon hey it's better than a bunch of the other

01:05:32   icons on my home screen it's better than the Google Maps icon yeah that was when back when

01:05:38   I was using Chrome like for my web browser on my iPhone and like it was a tough time

01:05:46   right it was not easy to do this I still stand by the reason I did it which was that if I

01:05:51   was I was using Chrome on the desktop and I wanted to use the same web browser so all

01:05:57   my history and shared tabs and stuff like it was really hard and annoying to do then

01:06:03   I used to have a bunch of shortcuts that I would use that would open URLs in one web

01:06:08   browser or the other depending on like whether you know if I tapped a link and opened Safari

01:06:13   and then I'd hit a shortcut to open it in Chrome like that was like a thing I had to

01:06:17   do back at the time and I did it for a really long time I kept it going for an incredibly

01:06:21   long time and then stopped and then Apple made it possible to have a third-party browser

01:06:27   as your browser but that was me all the way back then do you see do you see my screen

01:06:34   so my screenshot has a 941 a.m. in the status bar so to give you some context full signal

01:06:43   strength to give but that's a status bar yes this was the time when I was obsessed with

01:06:53   having a clean status bar and it's like I'm the opposite of you no service for some reason

01:07:01   and 33% back oh I know I was at work I couldn't get I couldn't get cell reception in in my

01:07:10   office because we were in a big skyscraper so I remember I remember now this was the

01:07:16   time so this is before workflow workflow would come out in December of 2014 so this is before

01:07:25   workflow at the time I was obsessed with having a clean status bar which in hindsight was

01:07:31   a huge waste of time but hey you know I was younger and I had my quirks I still do different

01:07:38   ones just then none now but at the time there was no Apple frames right I did there was

01:07:49   no Apple frames shortcut so the way I was doing the clean status bars I had a Python

01:07:56   script that I put together and I'm pretty sure I got some help by from dr. Drang at

01:08:05   the time I think to do basically these screenshots were composited using Python and the Python

01:08:12   image library of Pythonista which I'm pretty sure it's somewhere on page two or editorial

01:08:18   because editorial had the same engine as Pythonista and so yeah all these screenshots were composited

01:08:24   with the fake status bar using Python and I remember like the time I spent making sure

01:08:31   that the status bar would work if the like Apple changed I think in iOS 6 the status

01:08:38   bar was multicolor like it could be black or it could be like blue I think and then

01:08:45   it became sort of transparent in iOS 8 or something and so there was like this huge

01:08:51   thing about like what do I do with the status bar now yeah many many weeks spent making

01:08:56   Python scripts I found I found links to all that for sure

01:09:01   perfect perfect oh I see yeah iOS status bar clean on any background yeah that was yeah

01:09:08   that was a thing that was a thing at the time Stephen yes Mike and I have beats music huh

01:09:16   you had the music app yeah but that's before Apple music so you were of course listening

01:09:22   to your own music library yeah purchasing and and I was probably using or I'm almost

01:09:29   confident I was using Apple the iTunes match right so your stuff would be everywhere yeah

01:09:36   I did not you actually did not use beats music I didn't use it until it became Apple music

01:09:42   you know sometime after this and I have only dabbled with Spotify so I was not a not a

01:09:48   streaming person until Apple got in the game Gmail and mail yes I remember this when I

01:09:53   saw the screenshot I had personal and relay email and mail and my day job in Gmail so

01:10:00   we used Google Apps and I wanted to keep those things separate so and on the Mac I used I

01:10:07   used mail plane so it was all like the Gmail experience at work mail plane Wow rest in

01:10:13   peace rotation lock on for Stephen always it's on today on my phone right here always

01:10:19   already what what happens when you want to watch a video in that I hit the button and

01:10:24   YouTube and it and it rotates you know like if you make a video full screen and YouTube

01:10:30   it automatically rotates landscape oh it does okay so because I don't use rotation lock

01:10:38   huh okay so some app choices in hindsight are questionable right Safari weather photos

01:10:51   fantastical I believe that weather app is check the weather from our friend underscore

01:10:57   ah that's not the Apple weather one okay the Apple weather one that's a good detail good

01:11:02   detail Insta paper so I got an email from Insta paper yesterday oh boy I wouldn't say

01:11:09   Insta paper now they took it back right took it back they took it yes from Pinterest Pinterest

01:11:15   owned it yeah now it's it's indie again I think okay back they they like okay so you

01:11:22   don't hear about Insta paper much anymore and I think I think they sort of missed the

01:11:29   whole kind of Renaissance of this read later tools like matter read wise like this new

01:11:35   generation of read later tools but it's still around and they're still shipping updates

01:11:40   yesterday I got an email saying that they shipped like better text parser some kind

01:11:45   of newsletter integration as well so like it's still around and I mean arguably there's

01:11:51   more updates for Insta paper than there are for pocket these days and yeah if you're called

01:11:59   pocket now owned by Mozilla and Mozilla I don't know what they're doing with the app

01:12:03   there they stuffed it with recommendations from like publishers you don't follow they're

01:12:08   doing weird things to pocket but yeah this was the era of like in our community we were

01:12:14   all pretty much using Insta paper I think was definitely the more sort of at the time

01:12:20   Insta paper was still made by by Marco 2014 maybe not I don't think so right if overcast

01:12:29   yeah over yeah so if overcast was around that Insta paper was already they sold in 2013

01:12:34   it looks like yeah so it was it was made by beta works and now it's made by beta works

01:12:40   again well I don't actually think it is isn't it is it beta works again because I know it

01:12:45   was beta works then it went indie then it was Pinterest right is that how that went yeah

01:12:51   I don't remember now it's indie again yeah it's very it's it's definitely had a hard

01:12:56   life in the middle I think beta works maybe sold it to Pinterest I don't know who could

01:13:00   tell and then I I just need to I just need to I feel like I need to say something as

01:13:07   much as I love Obsidian nothing will ever top editorial for me just it was a time man

01:13:17   it was like a time and a vibe it was a vibe yes here's the thing Obsidian is much much

01:13:25   more powerful than editorial ever was and I mean they have like a million users they

01:13:31   announced there's hundreds of thousands I want to say of plugins you're looking for

01:13:37   something you can find it for Obsidian but the thing is unless you have some pretty basic

01:13:45   but still JavaScript skills you cannot make an Obsidian plugin yourself and the genius

01:13:53   behind editorial was that it allowed you with an automator like UI which eventually would

01:13:59   be a shortcuts like UI it allowed you to make your own enhancements for the text editor

01:14:05   with the graphical user interface and you could just drag and drop actions and insert

01:14:11   variables and you know and sure you could write Python code but you didn't have to and

01:14:17   I'm gonna say something else there was much greater freedom in the custom pieces of UI

01:14:25   that you could create in editorial than there is today in 2023 in shortcuts editorial allowed

01:14:33   you to put together all kinds of lists and menus and input boxes and windows and previews

01:14:41   like you could do all kinds of native UI 10 years ago in editorial and you cannot do the

01:14:48   same in shortcuts today I am still so like and here's something else if editorial came

01:14:54   back I would probably switch again like as much as I love Obsidian just that idea well

01:15:00   about the web stuff though well but that idea of you make your own autom- I mean you know

01:15:06   me you make your own automations ah man that was a time it was incredible it's too bad

01:15:15   if you like if you've ever wondered like the origins at the Federico Vittucci iOS review

01:15:22   you know like the big long review like that editorial review is like that's like your

01:15:26   origin story yes I found it and put it in the show notes it's the one that you turned

01:15:31   into a book yeah I did I did I did I'm gonna read you a quote from the editorial website

01:15:37   editorial sits at the forefront of the post PC era and it's become an indispensable tool

01:15:44   for my professional life Federico Vittucci right next to it editorial is the app that

01:15:50   I actually use to write the scripts for my videos CGP Grey that links to episode one

01:15:56   of Cortex no way really yeah weird and now both using Obsidian now both using Obsidian

01:16:04   before we wrap up today I feel like I just need to say I hate my home screen so much

01:16:08   yeah me too I hate the apps that I've chosen that's what I hate like there's so many apps

01:16:14   here where I'm like why do I have all of these you know Wunderlist, Syllo, Cleardu and OmniFocus

01:16:20   why do I also have editorial Evernote and drafts on the same home screen like what am

01:16:26   I doing you know all this stuff why is day one there like was I even using it I don't

01:16:30   even know who could tell using Foursquare a lot that's for sure I did use Foursquare

01:16:35   a lot I because back then like that was the best way to get recommendations for places

01:16:41   to eat and drink and stuff like that like Google wasn't very good at that then like

01:16:44   what were you doing with launch center pro I mean I was doing what everyone was doing

01:16:49   you know launching Google Chrome on specific web pages I mean honestly probably you know

01:16:55   what I remember what I was using it for then launching show docs I was going to say yeah

01:17:01   I had it for a long time launching yeah documents from my podcast that and then I would choose

01:17:07   like which show like I choose the show artwork and it would open that show artwork yeah you

01:17:12   would you would probably pre-pend like Google Chrome colon slash slash to the Google Docs

01:17:21   URL and yeah no I think it was just docs colon slash slash it was open it in the Google Docs

01:17:27   app but get right to it oh yes you're right you're right that was one of my great discoveries

01:17:32   that did that I just it was one to say I'm not saying like I worked it I but like I worked

01:17:36   it out for myself like I didn't see it anywhere and I tried it and it worked yeah myself the

01:17:42   last thing I say is the slack icon is so good and they ruined it like seeing that slack

01:17:46   icon now it's like why did you do what you did I would pay to use the slack icon already

01:17:52   doesn't bother me it oh yeah that's the sore spot for me right now they meant slack I'm

01:17:59   just so annoyed at slack in general but like that the icon doesn't bother me now like it's

01:18:04   fine but then when I see the old one I'm like yeah that was so good it is good so good bring

01:18:09   it back it's the best icon in that home screen like I think it's the best icon on all of

01:18:14   our home screens it's timeless timeless icon I mean it's no group me but it's pretty close

01:18:18   that's true did you still use group me Stephen yeah it's on the second second screen in my

01:18:24   phone I really would love to see what the second and third screens of these phones look

01:18:31   like you know like what's going on back there like that's what I really want to know like

01:18:35   these are fun but what's going on back there it's got to be a bunch of folders because

01:18:38   it's before the app library oh so I only look I only have two home screens and y'all just

01:18:45   each have three so there's a pile of folders beyond these somewhere yeah I'm I know that

01:18:49   me and Federico have one more screen of apps on it though like I'm sure of that and then

01:18:53   there's like the folder screen you know no widgets tell you that I for one don't feel

01:18:59   particularly roasted I feel like these are an item of their time no and I know you're

01:19:07   fine and we've grown mics is the worst I actually think mics is the worst mics is the worst

01:19:13   without shadow of a doubt mine is the worst like there is I'm fine with that Mike Mike's

01:19:18   home screen is consistently the worst through the not now mine is the best now these days

01:19:25   I have the best home screen have you seen it back then I have the worst homes well let

01:19:29   me tell you dear listener there'll be a link in the show notes to our current home screens

01:19:34   as they are today well you'll see I have the best one and you can I don't think we're gonna

01:19:39   roast them today but you can just another time see how we've evolved see how waste it's

01:19:44   not roast waste you know wait we are carbon neutral roasting you know we don't we don't

01:19:52   want to waste them because that's like burning up for later but I you can see I have the

01:19:56   best one anyway so it's like we don't even need to get into it today if you want to find

01:20:01   links to stuff we spoke about this week head on over to the website relay.fm/connected/475

01:20:08   links also of course are in your podcast player you have just a few days left to get relay

01:20:14   FM's official holiday shirt for 2023 that link to cotton bureau is in the show notes

01:20:20   and if you're a member you can log into memberful and download wallpaper versions of that artwork

01:20:24   that I put together last week they're a lot of fun I'm using using it on my Mac right

01:20:30   now it's great you can also if you're not a member become a member and it's five bucks

01:20:35   a month you get ad free versions of the show that are longer this week we spoke about the

01:20:40   upcoming live-action Zelda film and we made some pics on who should star in it and two

01:20:47   of us had a lot of fun and the other of us just sat there awkwardly you can find us all

01:20:52   online you can find it Mike on a bunch of other shows here on relay FM and his work

01:20:57   over at cortex brand you can follow him online he is I Mike on threads and I Mike at Mike

01:21:04   dot social on Macedon Federico is the editor-in-chief of Mac stories dotnet you can follow him as

01:21:12   Vitici at Mac stories dotnet on Macedon you can follow me online my writing is at 512

01:21:19   pixels dotnet I co-host Mac power users each and every Sunday here on relay FM we just

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01:21:43   for making this episode possible and until next time gentlemen say goodbye how do you

01:21:48   lift you cheerio bye y'all