149: Rock, Paper, Scissors


00:00:00   Okay, you ready Mike? I'm gonna hold you to the honor system.

00:00:03   Right now, are you ready?

00:00:05   Yes.

00:00:06   Rock paper scissors and shoot.

00:00:08   What'd you do?

00:00:10   Scissors.

00:00:11   Rock!

00:00:12   This happened to me when I played against you.

00:00:16   When you told me, oh I'm gonna go rock!

00:00:19   But my problem was...

00:00:21   I'd already made my mind up before you said that.

00:00:24   And so I was like...

00:00:25   I basically fell into the Monty Hall problem with you, accidentally.

00:00:29   Which wasn't the point of the video.

00:00:31   It's like, you can change it!

00:00:32   I was like, never will change it!

00:00:34   And then I then faked it and then got to the second one.

00:00:38   Knocked out again because I chose scissors again.

00:00:41   So I only legit got to the second one.

00:00:44   That's as far as I got legit.

00:00:46   And then I gave up and just clicked through everything.

00:00:49   Yeah, I mean but that's because good old rock.

00:00:51   Nothing beats rock, Mike.

00:00:52   So we are obviously talking about your rock paper scissors video/series of videos.

00:01:00   Video, I feel like, does not capture the totality of what has happened in my life over the past several months.

00:01:05   Yes.

00:01:06   I want to talk through this with you because I'm very interested.

00:01:09   And also, Cortex-ins have been banging down my door wanting to know about the production of this video.

00:01:15   Oh, okay, great.

00:01:16   People want to hear about this so I'm very interested.

00:01:19   But I want to start at the start.

00:01:21   Because every video that you have starts with a piece of information or an idea that comes from somewhere.

00:01:27   And I'm intrigued to where did this video begin?

00:01:32   Because there's kind of two parts to it.

00:01:33   There is the game but there's also the odds.

00:01:36   And so where did the rock paper scissors video...

00:01:38   Like how did it first find its way into your like, "Oh, I might look at this."

00:01:43   Like what was it that triggered it?

00:01:44   I'm not quite sure what you mean by there's the game and there's the odds.

00:01:47   Well, there's the game of rock paper scissors, right?

00:01:49   Oh, okay.

00:01:51   But then there are also the one in a million because you didn't need to do the one in a million.

00:01:55   Right, okay.

00:01:56   For this to be a thing, right?

00:01:58   Like that's kind of like the two things going on in this video.

00:02:01   Of like, you could have just played rock paper scissors against the internet, right?

00:02:05   And it could have been like a choose your own adventure thing, which it was.

00:02:08   But there was also this other through line of,

00:02:11   "Can you get to one in a million?"

00:02:13   Which is like a specific thing that you kind of decided.

00:02:16   Yeah, well, I mean, there's also another thing which is just talking about

00:02:20   the game in itself, like the concept of rock paper scissors, which I didn't do at all.

00:02:25   Exactly, that's what I mean.

00:02:25   And I wondered like, did it start with, "I want to make a video about rock paper scissors."

00:02:29   And then it's like, "Oh, actually I can make a video playing it."

00:02:32   We'll get into the details.

00:02:33   This was an insanely enormous project.

00:02:37   I think by very many metrics, this is the hardest thing that I have yet made.

00:02:41   It was a big asteroid that crashed into my life.

00:02:45   So there's a lot of post-analysis that I want to do that I just,

00:02:49   at time of recording, haven't had a chance to do.

00:02:51   And one of those is doing some Evernote archaeology to try to figure out

00:02:55   when is the earliest documentation that I have for starting this video.

00:03:02   I know that it had to be at least five or six years ago,

00:03:08   because I can date in my mind talking to some specific people

00:03:11   at YouTube actually about doing something like this.

00:03:15   It was back in the day for when YouTube was doing YouTube originals.

00:03:21   And so there was a question of like, "Oh, does this make sense as a YouTube original?"

00:03:24   And the answer was, "No, it doesn't."

00:03:25   It's like, you know, someone was like, you'd heard it through the grapevine,

00:03:29   "Oh, so YouTube will pay you.

00:03:31   The more episodes you do, the more they'll pay you."

00:03:34   And you're like, "I have an idea for a thousand videos."

00:03:36   Yeah, so my memory goes back to at least then.

00:03:42   I remember having a conversation.

00:03:43   But even at that point, I know the idea was pretty solid and had been around for a while.

00:03:48   - So we're talking like, basically for as long as you can remember,

00:03:51   the idea was, "I want to play the game with people."

00:03:54   Like that was the idea.

00:03:55   - Yeah.

00:03:55   Playing the game was the original idea.

00:03:58   I thought that there was something fun about this notion.

00:04:01   And it had been in my mind just because YouTube allowed this,

00:04:06   you know, unlike basically all other video platforms,

00:04:09   they do allow some amount of interaction.

00:04:13   Like it's not a lot.

00:04:14   It's just a little.

00:04:15   You can choose between clicking on a couple of things

00:04:18   and they'll take you to different videos.

00:04:19   - Importantly, on all platforms.

00:04:22   - There's some asterisks to that, but it's basically all platforms.

00:04:24   - It doesn't work well on TVs, but it's possible.

00:04:27   Like you can still click them, but it's hard.

00:04:29   But like, you know, it works best on computers and phones,

00:04:31   which let's be real, that's what people are watching the videos anyway.

00:04:34   - Yeah, for sure.

00:04:35   Like on my analytics, I think it's like 60% of views now are on phones.

00:04:38   It's at least it's over half, but it's a lot.

00:04:40   - I think even when I hear that, it's like, yeah, that's a high number,

00:04:43   but I'm still surprised it's not more.

00:04:45   - I think the truth is it's not more because the majority of desktop views,

00:04:50   I am absolutely certain are coming from people who are supposed to be working

00:04:53   on their work computers watching YouTube.

00:04:55   That's where the other 40% are.

00:04:57   - Oh, I mean, I do that, right?

00:04:58   Like everybody does that, but it's just still surprising to me.

00:05:02   Like honestly, like I'm surprised that like people aren't at work

00:05:04   and they're just looking at their phones.

00:05:06   You know, I know people do that too.

00:05:07   Anyway, that's always a surprise to me.

00:05:09   It's like, oh, 60% is a lot, but I'm also like, yeah, but why is it not 80?

00:05:13   - I think actually the big surprise for me in the last two years

00:05:16   is the very clear upward trend of views on TV.

00:05:21   I think last time I looked, it's like 10% now, and it used to be under 1%.

00:05:27   Like it used to not even show up in the analytics,

00:05:29   but it's like YouTube is slowly gaining ground on TV.

00:05:32   - That is much higher than I expected.

00:05:35   That's wild.

00:05:36   - Yeah, it's also very noticeable that it's on the weekend.

00:05:40   Something about YouTube over the years has, for some portion of the population, become a,

00:05:46   oh, this is what I watch on the weekend along with Netflix and whatever.

00:05:50   - I was gonna say, I feel like Netflix is the reason this has happened in a weird way.

00:05:54   - Yeah, it has to be.

00:05:55   - Right, which is just like trained people to be choosing videos using their smart TV.

00:06:01   And so now YouTube is just like shoehorned into that

00:06:05   because people are already there.

00:06:07   Like because people want Netflix on their TV,

00:06:10   they have some kind of smart TV or some kind of thing that makes their TV smart.

00:06:15   So then they also just watch YouTube there as well.

00:06:17   That's fascinating.

00:06:18   I would never have expected 10%.

00:06:20   - Yeah, I wouldn't have guessed it either.

00:06:22   I wouldn't have even noticed if a friend hadn't pointed it out to me of like,

00:06:25   go check out your TV view stats over the last few years.

00:06:27   It's like, oh yeah, it's like total upward trend, like surprising.

00:06:31   - Because it's like, I know I do it, but this just feels like one of those things

00:06:35   that I do because I'm a nerd and I have an Apple TV, right?

00:06:38   - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:06:38   - It doesn't feel like one of these things that I just assume everybody's doing.

00:06:42   - Yeah, everyone who watches YouTube on their TV probably feels like they're the only person

00:06:46   who does it, but actually it's becoming a significant number of people.

00:06:49   Anyway, so like that stuff had just been on my mind because I was thinking about,

00:06:52   I need to make sure where the devices are in order to still do this.

00:06:56   And TV was the one I was thinking about of,

00:06:59   this just basically won't work on a TV for almost anyone.

00:07:03   And so, yeah, I just wanted to double check like, great.

00:07:05   Phones are still basically everything, phones and computers.

00:07:08   I'm good to go on this.

00:07:09   But yeah, so it had been on my mind for a long time of like,

00:07:15   what can you do with this little bit of interaction that YouTube gives you?

00:07:21   And I think some kind of choose your own adventure thing is the obvious thought to have about this.

00:07:29   And I mean, this gets into the math of things.

00:07:33   There are reasons that video choose your own adventure things just don't work very well.

00:07:38   So like I sort of ruled out straight away, like,

00:07:41   well, you can't do an actual choose your own adventure thing.

00:07:43   So then kind of thinking about, okay, maybe it could be a game.

00:07:46   What options are possibilities?

00:07:49   And then very quickly, it just narrows down to like,

00:07:51   rock, paper, scissors is the only thing I ever really considered in a serious way.

00:07:57   As like, what could you do with this interactivity?

00:08:00   It's maybe the most interesting thing that you could simply manage.

00:08:04   Yeah, yeah.

00:08:05   Right.

00:08:05   Like that people understand they get you have to explain the rules really,

00:08:09   like it's quite simple, I guess.

00:08:11   I did just want to provide a quick piece of follow up.

00:08:13   The Cortex YouTube channel is 10% TV, which is mad.

00:08:16   Okay, that's really crazy.

00:08:19   Who's doing that?

00:08:20   You know?

00:08:21   But like you do you, I guess.

00:08:23   Yeah, we're in your living room right now on the TV.

00:08:25   That's amazing.

00:08:26   Thanks for watching.

00:08:27   Yeah, so you're totally right that if you start thinking through what are the options,

00:08:34   I think almost anyone would kind of boil it down to rock, paper,

00:08:37   scissors is the only sensible choice to do.

00:08:39   You know, like three things to choose from is significantly more interesting than two,

00:08:45   without becoming as complicated as four.

00:08:48   You can basically assume that it's got to be what, like,

00:08:53   99% of the English speaking world must know the rules of rock, paper, scissors.

00:08:58   Like there can't possibly be any other game that you could count on,

00:09:02   like a random English speaker anywhere in the world knowing.

00:09:05   Yeah.

00:09:05   So yeah, I was thinking about this for years.

00:09:07   But one of the things that held me back on it was that I was originally thinking,

00:09:12   "Oh, this game could be fun, but this isn't the main thing.

00:09:19   This would be like an addition to doing a video about the game of rock, paper, scissors.

00:09:26   And then like as a little bonus, I can do this game."

00:09:29   I mean, I understand for like the way that you make videos,

00:09:32   but you can't just be like, "Here's a thing I did."

00:09:34   That's not the kind of creator that you are, right?

00:09:36   Like the videos tell a story, there's something to them.

00:09:40   I almost feel like anyone could make the rock, paper, scissors game,

00:09:44   but the way that you did it was interesting in the way that you would do it.

00:09:48   And I guess that's what you're going to say, like you came to that thought.

00:09:50   Yeah.

00:09:51   I think long time viewers of my stuff will know that one of the reasons it just takes forever

00:10:00   for me to make things is I'm not very happy ever doing just the direct description of a thing.

00:10:06   Like I don't like to make a video that's just like, "Let me tell you about this thing."

00:10:10   I always feel like there has to be some other element to it

00:10:16   that makes it uniquely interesting in some way.

00:10:18   Like sometimes it's a critical fact that I'll stumble upon.

00:10:22   Like I've mentioned this before, like I'll be reading about a topic

00:10:24   and it's like, "Yeah, no, this could be interesting."

00:10:27   And then there's like you find one piece of information and you go like,

00:10:30   "Ah, this is what I build the whole video around."

00:10:35   Like for me, the iconic example of this is always the tumbleweed video.

00:10:38   It's like the fact that tumbleweed are originally from Russia,

00:10:43   like, "Oh, now it's a video." Right? "This is interesting."

00:10:46   Like all of the framing can be built around this concept.

00:10:51   But just a video about tumbleweed talking about what they are,

00:10:55   it's like I just think that's kind of boring most of the time.

00:10:58   So I'm always like looking for the other thing.

00:11:00   And so for years and years, I didn't make a lot of progress on this rock, paper, scissors thing

00:11:07   because I was always kind of focused on, "Well, I need to make an interesting video

00:11:14   about the game of rock, paper, scissors."

00:11:16   And I never really found what's the interesting thing about this

00:11:24   that's more than just talking about the history.

00:11:26   Yeah, there's plenty of videos out there that will like basically give you

00:11:30   like an entertaining Wikipedia level summary of the history of rock, paper, scissors.

00:11:35   And like that's fine. But I was always trying to find like,

00:11:38   "But what's the additional thing? What kind of makes this interesting?"

00:11:42   The closest I ever got was just how rock, paper, scissors is related to the Pokémon system.

00:11:49   It's kind of interesting. But the problem for me is I just never really got that into Pokémon.

00:11:56   So I like I'm the wrong person to try to do this.

00:11:59   System's totally broken now. But yes, originally it was very much like that.

00:12:04   Now there's too many types is the problem. And so it isn't as simple as it used to be.

00:12:08   That was like the original idea of this was like,

00:12:10   "How far can you push rock, paper, scissors before it breaks?"

00:12:13   And it's like, it works reasonably well with five.

00:12:16   Like there's a bunch of different interesting variations of rock,

00:12:18   paper, scissors that have five different moves.

00:12:21   What are the other implements?

00:12:23   Here's the thing. I was about to try to say them off the top of my head.

00:12:25   If I just said them, it's like, "I'm going to mix them up."

00:12:27   And some of them it's like, "Lizard. Lizard is one of the options."

00:12:31   Yeah. Everyone knows lizards eat rocks. Yep. Okay.

00:12:34   Okay. So the most popular variant is rock, paper, scissors, Spock, lizard.

00:12:40   And you add in this additional one and you can get a sensible five different versions of this.

00:12:49   Now that one's been popularized by, I think the Big Bang Theory.

00:12:53   Like there's the actual like foundational version of it is rock, paper, scissors,

00:13:00   water, fire. Some of these get into strange things where the throws are not equal.

00:13:06   So it's not like there's a one-third chance. Some of it breaks down where it's like you have a

00:13:10   one-ninth chance of winning throwing one thing. And it kind of adds an interesting strategic

00:13:16   element where they're not perfectly equal. Anyway, what I am telling you right now is

00:13:21   part of the problem of like, why did this never happen?

00:13:24   Because the moment you start talking about, there's versions where there are five,

00:13:29   but then you have to explain some of these versions that are five don't have even math.

00:13:35   At this point already, it's like, okay, you're just going to lose people.

00:13:39   And why are you even telling them this? Like what purpose is this trying to serve?

00:13:44   It's not complicated enough to be interesting in and of itself.

00:13:48   Yeah. You know, like with a lot of my videos,

00:13:50   the fact that it's complicated can be interesting where there's just like a deluge of stuff.

00:13:56   Like all the airport codes, right? It's like the very fact that the video,

00:13:59   like you're 10 minutes into the video and it's like, oh, by the way, we've only spoken about

00:14:04   one-tenth of the number of codes that exist. That's the interesting thing in the video.

00:14:10   The complication of those videos, and I also actually feel the same for the highway ones,

00:14:15   which is like, the information, you don't need it.

00:14:18   Like what is making this complicated is all the numbers.

00:14:22   You don't need to remember any of these to understand what's going on here.

00:14:25   And that's what makes it interesting where if like you were doing this video about rock,

00:14:28   paper, scissors, the numbers actually matter for understanding.

00:14:30   It's the rules. It's the rules of the game and like how the game is played.

00:14:34   And so like, if they don't make sense to you, then you're not going to be able to retain

00:14:38   the information to carry on with the video, I guess.

00:14:41   Yeah. And then like the Pokemon thing is also like, why was this always a problem?

00:14:45   It's like, oh, I kind of thought the Pokemon system is interesting.

00:14:48   It's basically even rock, paper, scissors, but you just keep increasing the number of Pokemon of like

00:14:54   bug type wins against ghost type or whatever. I don't know.

00:14:57   There are some that are easy to remember and some that aren't.

00:15:00   Like, but yes.

00:15:01   What's your favorite type of Pokemon?

00:15:02   I'll say grass because I'm a Bulbasaur guy.

00:15:06   You're a Bulbasaur guy? Okay. What does grass defeat?

00:15:09   Grass defeats water.

00:15:11   Okay. What defeats grass?

00:15:12   Fire.

00:15:13   Okay. The fire defeats grass makes sense, but grass defeating water doesn't quite make sense.

00:15:17   I feel like they only made that decision because they have the three that begin, right?

00:15:21   So like you have a fire type of water type and a grass type.

00:15:24   And so like fire and water were easy.

00:15:26   And fire and grass also easy, but then you need the middle piece.

00:15:30   And so then like grass does the thing that kind of doesn't make sense.

00:15:34   But by the end of it, you've got the three.

00:15:36   Yeah.

00:15:36   The game is kind of the way that the game structured at the beginning.

00:15:40   It's important that you have the three that can defeat each other.

00:15:43   The rock, paper, scissors of it all, I guess.

00:15:45   But what you're talking about here is also like,

00:15:48   what is the problem with trying to make an interesting video about rock, paper, scissors?

00:15:51   It's like, okay, so say I'm going to skip the whole thing about,

00:15:53   oh, there's versions of five and I'm just going to talk about Pokemon.

00:15:57   It's still the same problem because a huge number of people are just not going to be

00:16:04   familiar with Pokemon.

00:16:06   And so now you have the problem of you're trying to explain two things at once.

00:16:11   Well, I will say just for the record,

00:16:13   Pokemon is like the most successful intellectual property of all time.

00:16:16   Did you know that?

00:16:16   It's not going to defeat the point that you're making.

00:16:19   I'm not rock, paper, scissorsing you here, but that's like a funny fact that I think

00:16:22   maybe a lot of people don't know about Pokemon is just like how successful it is.

00:16:27   Oh, yeah.

00:16:27   But yes, for this video, you would have to explain it.

00:16:31   Which now we're doing a video about Pokemon.

00:16:34   But see, like, that's exactly it, right?

00:16:36   The problem is it's really about the ratios, right?

00:16:39   The number of people who know rock, paper, scissors is functionally the entire human population.

00:16:45   Yeah.

00:16:45   And the number of people who know Pokemon is a subset of that.

00:16:48   You're immediately leaving behind some set of people who know rock, paper, scissors,

00:16:55   but who don't know Pokemon.

00:16:56   And now you are explaining both things.

00:16:58   So this is just why it's like, I was toying with this for years and years,

00:17:03   and I just like never found what's the thing that for me would make a rock, paper,

00:17:09   scissors video interesting to do that doesn't just cause more problems.

00:17:13   And you're exactly right.

00:17:14   Like you hit on it before.

00:17:15   Fundamentally, it's a game.

00:17:17   And it means like you're explaining rules of a game.

00:17:20   And if you're going to do that, you need to be sure that you're not introducing a new game

00:17:28   in your explanation of another game.

00:17:30   Like, I think that's just fundamentally a problem.

00:17:32   Like, for example, take like the Ken chess with hexagons video.

00:17:35   The difference there is like that video is immediately sorting for everyone who watches

00:17:42   and enjoys this at least knows roughly the rules of chess.

00:17:46   And now I'm just telling you a variation on those rules.

00:17:51   You have the thing to compare it to.

00:17:54   But even in that, like, I'm not sure if people notice,

00:17:57   I assume everyone who watches that video knows how to play chess,

00:18:01   but I still take the time to just remind people what the standard motion of each of the pieces are.

00:18:09   Because I think otherwise you lose people.

00:18:11   Well, I know how to play chess, but not frequently.

00:18:15   So like it is helpful to have a refresher in that video of the movements of some of the pieces.

00:18:21   Because like I have played chess, I know how to play chess,

00:18:24   but it's kind of like Monopoly in a way for me, right?

00:18:27   I just got to just have a quick scan of the rules just so I remember like,

00:18:31   oh, this piece moves that all I got the two mixed up, you know, like, so it is helpful to have that.

00:18:36   Right.

00:18:36   Yeah.

00:18:37   Yeah.

00:18:37   How do I get out of jail again?

00:18:38   I don't remember.

00:18:39   Like I rolled doubles or sevens?

00:18:42   Is it craps?

00:18:42   I don't know.

00:18:43   Yes, exactly.

00:18:44   So yeah, this is all like the behind the scenes stuff.

00:18:46   Like what am I thinking about while trying to do stuff?

00:18:48   And this is also why at this point now, basically every video I do has been in the background for

00:18:55   a really long period of time.

00:18:56   And this is one of these things of like, I'm not working on it, but I'm just like trying to find

00:19:02   the thing and you never know when you do.

00:19:04   Yeah.

00:19:05   Now some projects just, this is the way they die that you never really find the extra thing

00:19:12   and then you just stop thinking about it and then you forget that you ever thought about

00:19:16   it in the first place and it's just like off into ghost land it goes like it did, like it never

00:19:21   existed.

00:19:21   But Rock Paper Scissors has stuck with me for years because I was like, there's something

00:19:27   here.

00:19:28   I just need to figure it out.

00:19:30   I just, I can't find what the thing is.

00:19:34   And so it was really at the very end of last year, sort of rolling over into the beginning

00:19:42   of this year that I finally found what is the thing?

00:19:49   And you never know where this is going to come from.

00:19:52   And for me, the answer, it couldn't have been more unexpected.

00:19:59   Like starting in September of last year, I had for various reasons, a bunch of existential

00:20:05   risks just on the back of my mind.

00:20:07   Like I was thinking about them a bunch and that's where I was like, this is what it is.

00:20:13   This is actually what connects to Rock Paper Scissors is the extinction of the human species.

00:20:18   Like you're dealing with this thing of numbers and like then probability and numbers getting

00:20:24   so huge.

00:20:25   Like what does it mean to talk about millions and billions and trillions?

00:20:29   If you'll allow me to step in for a moment, because there is an important piece of context

00:20:34   that has been missed here.

00:20:36   I don't think it has been missed.

00:20:38   People will not know what you're talking about unless they've clicked all the way through.

00:20:41   Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:42   I'll get to that, right?

00:20:43   Okay, cool.

00:20:44   I just want to, because like now we're into existential risk, which is like for a minute,

00:20:48   I was like, what?

00:20:49   And they'll say, oh yeah, the end.

00:20:50   I forgot about the end.

00:20:53   Like I also had a video that was sort of in the works for a long time, which was just

00:20:57   about trying to visualize bigger and bigger numbers.

00:21:00   That was also kind of suffering from the same problem of like, what's the interesting thing

00:21:03   here rather than just trying to do this.

00:21:05   Basically, sometime between the end of last year and the beginning of this year, it merged

00:21:10   into my brain that these things were all connected.

00:21:14   Rock Paper Scissors was connected to this concept of really big numbers, which was also connected

00:21:21   to this concept of existential risk, which is the chance of the human species being wiped

00:21:28   out forever.

00:21:29   And this is where I realized, oh wow, okay.

00:21:33   Because of the way statistics works in this really unintuitive way, the odds of winning

00:21:40   and the numbers of players you would need to like reach a certain number of wins gets

00:21:45   big really fast, like much bigger, much faster than people would guess that it would.

00:21:51   And so you can very quickly run into a case of like, how many rounds of Rock Paper Scissors

00:21:59   would you need to play before no one on earth could possibly win this game?

00:22:04   How many rounds of Rock Paper Scissors would you need to play before all of the humans

00:22:10   who've ever lived no one would win that many times in a row?

00:22:13   And then just extend it further, like how many rounds of Rock Paper Scissors would you

00:22:17   need to play before no humans who might ever live would win this game?

00:22:24   And again, because of the nature of exponential math, it's not like a bazillion rounds.

00:22:30   It's a, I'm going to say the word manageable in like a huge quotes now.

00:22:34   It's a manageable number of rounds.

00:22:37   And so this is what I started to work on in the background of other projects at the beginning

00:22:42   of the year was how can I connect these ideas together?

00:22:49   And that's what Mike is trying to just jump to, to let viewers know that if you keep playing

00:22:56   the game, the game is basically a fake out, right?

00:23:00   I'm saying like, we're going to play Rock Paper Scissors until you win one in a million odds.

00:23:05   But that's not really what the video is.

00:23:09   If you get to that one in a million point, it keeps going.

00:23:13   And it says like, we're going to play until one in a billion, which could be someone on

00:23:17   earth.

00:23:17   And then from one in a billion, there's still more videos.

00:23:20   And it goes, we can play until one in a trillion.

00:23:23   But a trillion is such a big number that if you are taking the idea seriously, it calls

00:23:34   into question, will someone ever be able to win this?

00:23:40   Will someone ever honestly be able to win this many games in a row?

00:23:45   And the answer could quite possibly be no.

00:23:49   So that's the way all of this came together.

00:23:53   And so what I eventually realized was the solution of how do I make my Rock Paper Scissors

00:23:57   video interesting was, oh, I don't actually need to do that part at all.

00:24:02   I can just ditch the whole idea of making a video about the game Rock Paper Scissors.

00:24:08   I can just do the game itself, because I've found a way to put what I think is the interesting

00:24:16   extra part hidden inside of this as a surprise to the really dedicated viewers.

00:24:22   So realistically, it's about odds.

00:24:25   And then you tie that into the fact that the world might not ever exist long enough to

00:24:32   do the one in a trillion, even if people were actively trying to do it.

00:24:37   I guess that's how I'd put it.

00:24:39   I would like to, especially listeners of this show, sincerely recommend that people click

00:24:46   all the way through, because I think it's kind of a travesty in a way that it may be

00:24:53   the best writing of yours that I've experienced is the trillion video.

00:24:58   Oh, wow.

00:24:59   Thank you.

00:24:59   I clicked all the way through, and I was, I will say, quite surprised by it.

00:25:04   It was very good, very emotional, and beautiful.

00:25:09   So I just think people should watch it, because it's worth it.

00:25:12   Plus, I would say it's fun.

00:25:15   I would do it anyway, but I did it for my work, where I just clicked "Click and Win,"

00:25:19   and I went through the whole thing and just wanted to see where it was going.

00:25:23   I want to ask how many videos there are in total.

00:25:27   Yeah, so if people want to get to that, yeah, Mike's right.

00:25:31   You just need to keep clicking "Win," and I'm trying to remember off the top of my head.

00:25:36   I think it's like 20-something clicks to get to the end.

00:25:40   Again, it's sort of fewer than you would think, because exponential math adds up quickly.

00:25:45   To get to a trillion, you don't click it hundreds of times, but it was just what you

00:25:49   would think, but it's just because of the way that odds work, right?

00:25:52   I actually quite like how when you start getting up to the really high numbers,

00:25:56   you start providing context for that, too, which I thought was really helpful to

00:26:01   help it kind of drive home the idea of just how unlikely it is that somebody could get to this point.

00:26:07   Like you're using the metaphor of the maze, right?

00:26:09   And just people getting knocked out, and I thought that worked really well.

00:26:12   I'm glad you liked the ending.

00:26:13   It's a couple episodes ago.

00:26:16   This is partly why I was saying I think a few things will make sense to people now, right?

00:26:21   Now that I could talk about like, "Oh, the rock-paper-scissors thing is the thing that

00:26:24   was driving me crazy that I was working on."

00:26:27   It's like, "Oh, all of the things I was talking about how why I had to be locked away in a hotel

00:26:33   room and I was trying to keep a big project in my head, this is it, right?

00:26:37   This was the thing."

00:26:38   It's like, "Boy, this is not the kind of thing you can work on for like a few hours a day

00:26:44   and then go back to your normal life and come back and just be like, 'Oh, let me pick up where

00:26:48   I'm finished.'"

00:26:48   It's like, "No, no, no.

00:26:49   You've got to do this all at once or you're just never going to finish it, because it's

00:26:52   big and complicated."

00:26:53   It's also the part where I said I was like a little bit nervous about how this would do

00:26:58   because in many ways it's quite earnest.

00:27:00   And yeah, like that last video, I never really know how people take things, but I really

00:27:06   mean that as a video.

00:27:08   So I'm glad that you like it.

00:27:10   I kind of know what you mean by in a sense it's a shame that a very small number of people

00:27:15   will ever see it, but I kind of feel like that's the point.

00:27:20   It is a video for the dedicated people to find.

00:27:25   The way that it feels is the way that you're writing it purposefully, right?

00:27:30   Like it's written to the trillionth person.

00:27:33   And so it has this kind of feeling of a time capsule.

00:27:36   Yeah.

00:27:38   And so that's what I think makes it so effective.

00:27:41   It is a message to a person who may or may not ever get there.

00:27:46   I think, you know, this is the kind of stuff where you're sort of putting an emotional

00:27:52   state on the line, which always feels very vulnerable as a creator.

00:27:55   And I was really conscious of, I wanted to write that part when on that great occasion

00:28:02   where I had been just completely isolated from everyone for two weeks and was just thinking

00:28:09   about this.

00:28:09   So like I was kind of, I was really trying to put myself in some ways in this like mindset

00:28:15   of isolation and like, I'm just, there's no one that I know who is around and I'm just

00:28:21   in this room and trying to like think forward about what this means.

00:28:26   And having written that, I had some ideas that like, oh, I was going to revise that

00:28:32   a bunch after I was done, but I thought, no, no, no.

00:28:35   Like I wrote this in a little moment and I'm not going to revise this after the trip is

00:28:39   done.

00:28:39   Like the version that I ended up making there is like, I'm just going to stick with that

00:28:43   even if it's not perfect, because I think imperfect things can sometimes capture a mood

00:28:48   better than if you do try to make it absolutely perfect.

00:28:51   So that certainly explains the way it feels because it does feel different.

00:28:57   Like it feels like it's you coming from a different like style and point of view.

00:29:03   And so realistically it's vulnerable.

00:29:06   Like the writing is vulnerable because you are probably in a more vulnerable state at

00:29:12   that point.

00:29:13   Like working on what you were working on.

00:29:16   And like, this is one of those things that I feel like hasn't happened in actually quite

00:29:20   some time where I was just like very aware of the growing complexity of the project.

00:29:26   Like I feel like this used to be something that you would be dealing with more years

00:29:33   ago than recently where like something's coming, it slips, it slips, it slips.

00:29:39   It's just kept happening.

00:29:41   Right.

00:29:41   Yeah.

00:29:42   And so I'm also assuming at that point you, and I know you, are so over it.

00:29:47   There's some parts of this which kind of naturally bleed into our like yearly themes

00:29:53   discussion.

00:29:53   So I want to intentionally hold some things back, but I will just say here that in many

00:29:59   ways I actually feel like this project was a real kind of, for me, personal crowning

00:30:04   work achievement, even though it just absolutely destroyed me because like you said, I don't

00:30:10   think you have had that experience in a while of like the, of the project slipping in the

00:30:15   way that this did, which was much more frequent.

00:30:17   And I feel like I have gotten so much better at managing complicated projects over the

00:30:23   years.

00:30:23   And what has just happened is I was able to do something that a past version of me just

00:30:30   would never have been able to do.

00:30:33   That is a great point.

00:30:35   Yeah.

00:30:35   You have two years ago even, you wouldn't have been able to do this.

00:30:38   There's just no way.

00:30:39   You wouldn't have been able to get it done.

00:30:40   It's too much.

00:30:41   It's nice in careers to be able to have moments that you can point to and be like,

00:30:45   "Oh, look, I like objectively developed in some way in my work."

00:30:50   And I think the rock, paper, scissors one is that for sure.

00:30:53   Personal growth.

00:30:55   Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:30:55   People like to feel like there's some kind of motion and momentum, but this is just such

00:31:01   a strange project for me because in some ways it just ended up completely destroying all

00:31:08   of my plans for the whole year and it was ruinous, but was also like I feel really, really

00:31:16   happy with the way this came out.

00:31:18   And I feel like there is no reasonable version that could have gone better than this did.

00:31:23   And there is no younger version of me who could have possibly made this.

00:31:29   So yeah, I'm pretty happy with the way it came out and I'm pretty happy with kind of

00:31:34   like getting into the right state to write that last video.

00:31:37   And I don't know, to try to like earnestly express some ideas that have been on my mind

00:31:44   for a while in just in a different way or in a different context.

00:31:50   And I'm okay with the fact that a small number of people will ever see that because I think

00:31:58   it works that if someone just shows that to you, it's in a very different context than

00:32:04   if you click through all of the videos.

00:32:07   I think it's an important part that, and it took a long time to make it work right,

00:32:12   that as you keep clicking through, you have this sort of like opposite experience that

00:32:18   you as the player keep winning.

00:32:20   And so that's great for you, but the longer it goes on, the sadder the character of Gray

00:32:27   is.

00:32:28   And it's not really clear why exactly is he sad or these references to the future.

00:32:35   And then I think that last one kind of can really hit you at the right moment.

00:32:40   And I've gotten a lot of just really great feedback from people on that.

00:32:44   And it does really seem like it has worked.

00:32:47   So yeah, I mean, this is why I'm telling people to go watch it, but I'm not going

00:32:50   to put a link to that video.

00:32:52   Yeah, no, don't link it directly.

00:32:54   You have to go through.

00:32:55   It's important because it won't make sense.

00:32:58   You have to see the escalation.

00:33:00   It's an important part of then being able to contextualize why we're talking about

00:33:06   the end of civilization at the end of a rock, paper, scissors sequence.

00:33:10   This is also why when I came upon this idea, like sometimes you just know something is

00:33:14   perfect because it's also just like, what an opposite ending to the start of a seemingly

00:33:21   trivial video.

00:33:22   Like there's almost this meta level of it.

00:33:24   The video itself comes off as, oh, this clickbaity thing of like, oh, we're rock, paper, scissors.

00:33:28   Like, let's internet plays the game.

00:33:30   And then at the end, it's like, this is the most serious video I've ever made.

00:33:33   Yes.

00:33:34   Step one, would you like to play a game with me?

00:33:36   Step four, I'm worried about the extinction of the human race.

00:33:40   Like, oh, okay.

00:33:43   That's related.

00:33:44   Yeah.

00:33:45   And again, like the reflection of it of like the very fact that you have been experiencing

00:33:50   odds and you're experiencing what unlikely odds feel like is the reason I am worried

00:33:57   about these unlikely events.

00:33:59   Like it just, everything just kind of comes together and I'm really happy when a project

00:34:03   does that.

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00:36:10   I have some technical questions for you.

00:36:12   Project this complexity working within a system you do not control just means there's going

00:36:18   to be a lot of weird things that go on, but I would like to know to start with how many

00:36:22   videos are there and how long is the total runtime?

00:36:26   Oh, okay.

00:36:28   In the end, the number of finished videos uploaded to YouTube that are connected together

00:36:38   is 113 videos.

00:36:40   I phrase it like that because there were many more videos uploaded to YouTube, but things

00:36:46   don't always work out.

00:36:46   Like there's just you have to re-upload things.

00:36:48   There's glitches.

00:36:49   The original version was probably going to be closer to 120, but at the very last minute

00:36:54   I was like a couple of these I just have to cut out because I just like I just I just

00:36:58   can't like I have to get this thing finished.

00:37:00   So the final version has 113 videos and I am so glad that I did not know this until after

00:37:09   it was finished, but the runtime of all of those videos is one hour and 33 minutes in

00:37:16   total.

00:37:17   It's quite a lot.

00:37:18   Again, if I had known this at the start, I would never have started.

00:37:21   So I'm very glad that I did not.

00:37:23   But yeah.

00:37:24   Why is that?

00:37:24   Like about the runtime?

00:37:26   Like it seems like the amount of videos isn't the problem, but it's the length of them.

00:37:29   It's more just like I was completely shocked by the runtime is the way that I would put

00:37:33   it.

00:37:33   Like I always knew the number of videos.

00:37:36   The number of videos was the thing that I was thinking about.

00:37:39   Yeah.

00:37:40   That runtime is a bit of an overestimate, right?

00:37:42   Like probably the real speaking runtime is something closer to an hour because by the

00:37:47   nature of it, like every one of these videos has 10 seconds where nothing happens.

00:37:50   My favorite part is one of the videos where you're like we just have to sit and wait.

00:37:55   Which is really good.

00:37:57   This one's meant to happen quickly, but like we just need to wait a minute and now we can

00:38:02   finish that.

00:38:03   I just like that.

00:38:04   That was me expressing my frustration with the YouTube system of like YouTube, please.

00:38:10   Why do you have these arbitrary restrictions about how short the video can be before end

00:38:15   cards are?

00:38:15   Why do you only let me put them in the last 20 seconds?

00:38:18   My whole life would be so much easier if you would just let me put them in a video of any

00:38:24   length at any time, but no.

00:38:26   So yeah, that was me being like a little passive aggressive towards YouTube.

00:38:29   I mean, at the point where you put the YouTube robot thing that you've created in there,

00:38:33   I'm not sure if it was passive anymore.

00:38:35   You're like explicitly calling them out, but.

00:38:38   YouTube, you know, we've got like a complicated relationship.

00:38:40   I love that you allowed this whole thing to exist in the first place, but also it's incredibly

00:38:44   frustrating to work through your system.

00:38:46   Was it one script in the end that you were working from?

00:38:49   No.

00:38:50   So that's why it's like I had no idea how long the actual runtime would be.

00:38:54   So the way I like on my back end, it's a you know, it's basically 113 individual scripts.

00:39:00   Okay.

00:39:00   Like I always see what the word count is of whatever I'm working on.

00:39:03   And so I know roughly like, oh yeah, like 2000 words is going to be this long.

00:39:07   But I just.

00:39:07   In the process of making it had never seen it, and so it wasn't until someone when I

00:39:14   was doing the director's commentary, someone pointed out that I could like select all the

00:39:17   files in Final Cut and see the total runtime and yeah, it was just genuinely shocking.

00:39:23   But I was also kind of relieving in a way because it made me feel less like, how did

00:39:31   I get so overwhelmed with this?

00:39:33   And it's like, oh, the answer is you uploaded like three years worth of stuff.

00:39:38   Like that's how this got so overwhelming.

00:39:41   Whereas when they were the individual videos, I think in my head, I could kind of round

00:39:46   all of them down to zero in some sense.

00:39:49   It's like, oh, none of these videos individually is any kind of big deal.

00:39:53   So if I round them all down to zero and then sum it up, it's like, it's not a lot of

00:39:57   work.

00:39:57   It's only when you see it all together at once that it was, it was really shocking.

00:40:01   I'm like, oh, I actually did end up writing a ton for this.

00:40:04   And this also explains why the audio took weeks to do to get all of the different parts

00:40:13   of it right.

00:40:14   I think much to the chagrin of my animator, I refuse to like copy paste the things where

00:40:21   I'm saying like rock, paper, scissors or paper beats rock.

00:40:24   It's like, no, no, I want all of these to be unique.

00:40:27   I don't want any of these to be repeated.

00:40:29   There's one little section like depending on which path you take through the maze where

00:40:33   I'm, I've copy and pasted a description of what has happened because the same thing

00:40:38   has happened in each place.

00:40:39   But even on those videos, they're not exactly the same because I wanted it to sound different

00:40:44   when I say like rock beats paper or, you know, whatever thing I'm saying at the end.

00:40:50   These are little details like I don't know if listeners really pick up on that, but to

00:40:54   me it was important that it didn't feel to the person like, oh, I just copy pasted the

00:41:01   same audio 300 times.

00:41:02   It's like, no, no, I want to actually say these different.

00:41:04   There are some videos I'm assuming that are written in such a way that someone will and

00:41:11   could see them multiple times right through one playthrough.

00:41:14   No, there's no video that someone's seen multiple times through a playthrough.

00:41:17   There's no repeated videos?

00:41:19   If you are doing an honest playthrough once, there are no repeated videos.

00:41:25   Even on the like going backwards part?

00:41:28   Yeah, even on the going backwards part.

00:41:30   Wow.

00:41:30   Commitment to the craft, man.

00:41:34   Geez, you did not need to do that, but I appreciate that you did.

00:41:37   People tried to talk me out of this, but I felt like this was important to do.

00:41:42   Yeah, I'm all in on the idea of making it as artsy project as you can possibly make

00:41:46   it like if anyone I'm going to be all in on that.

00:41:49   The reason I thought is just because some of them have no context in them and they're

00:41:54   fast, so I just assumed that they were made so you could see them more than once and wouldn't

00:42:01   remember that.

00:42:02   So hats off to you.

00:42:03   I can send you the map of the whole thing.

00:42:05   Well, I was going to ask how were they linked?

00:42:10   Like how did you work that out?

00:42:13   The linkage?

00:42:14   What were you using to?

00:42:16   So that's half of it.

00:42:17   Oh my word.

00:42:18   Let me squeeze something together so I can try to get like one shot for the show notes.

00:42:23   Are you effectively using an Obsidian canvas here?

00:42:27   Yes, I am quite effectively using an Obsidian canvas.

00:42:29   And I'm assuming that these are all going to Obsidian notes then, right?

00:42:33   Yeah, so each one of these is an Obsidian note.

00:42:36   What a great use of that feature.

00:42:38   Look, I'm just going to say it.

00:42:40   I think this is the biggest public project that has ever been done with Obsidian.

00:42:47   Like it just has to be.

00:42:49   What other thing made on the internet has been seen by as many people that required

00:42:57   as complicated an Obsidian setup as this?

00:43:00   I think I'm at the peak.

00:43:01   I think there is no one on Earth who has done something that hits both of those at the same

00:43:07   level of like maximum viewership and also maximum complicatedness for an Obsidian project.

00:43:15   So yes, what I have sent Mike is some images of how did I put this project together?

00:43:24   How did I keep everything straight?

00:43:26   And what I did is in Obsidian, there's a feature called Canvas.

00:43:30   Basically, you can take any of your individual notes in Obsidian and drop them onto the Canvas

00:43:38   where they just become a little box and you can connect them with lines to other boxes.

00:43:44   And this is how I built up the map for how should the game work.

00:43:51   So, listeners, you will just have to pause your podcast player and take a look at the

00:43:57   show notes to have any concept of what I'm talking about here.

00:43:59   Yeah.

00:44:00   But in the image that you're going to look at, each little square represents one of the

00:44:07   videos in the screenshots where I've zoomed in close enough so you can see the individual

00:44:12   squares, you can see that the script for each video exists in one of those squares.

00:44:19   So I can kind of get an overview of like at least the starting part of each script that

00:44:24   I'm working with.

00:44:25   And then I connected each square representing a script representing a video with red, green,

00:44:35   or white lines sort of depending on what's happening for what other videos should this

00:44:43   video connect to via the end cards.

00:44:46   So that is what Mike is looking at right now is a big complicated mess of squares broken

00:44:53   up into a bunch of different sections connected with lines.

00:44:57   And the red and green lines represent the win or fail state and where the viewer should

00:45:02   go.

00:45:02   This is incredible.

00:45:05   I kind of can't believe that it does work.

00:45:07   It seems so complicated.

00:45:09   But like, did this allow you to effectively plan out how they were going to be linked

00:45:17   when uploaded?

00:45:18   Yes, it didn't start out this complicated, right?

00:45:21   Even when I say like, Oh, I got the idea of what I want to do, I'm gonna have this rock

00:45:24   paper scissors game that's going to end with the possible extinction of the human race.

00:45:28   Great.

00:45:29   Very simple.

00:45:30   It's like one line, it's going to be 20 games, just a straight thing.

00:45:35   And we're done.

00:45:35   And so I was thinking like, okay, I need to just have some way to look at this.

00:45:41   I don't want to write this all out in a single script.

00:45:43   I do want to take advantage of like, breaking things down into individual notes, because

00:45:48   it's nicer to work with stuff that way.

00:45:49   And so like, let me just throw this on a canvas and start to think about it because I need

00:45:53   I need a little bit of like, what happens when the person loses kind of stuff.

00:45:56   So I started to think about it.

00:45:59   But then the moment I started drawing this out, it made much clearer where there were

00:46:05   problems in the potential flow of how players would travel around.

00:46:10   It also made it much more obvious where things just weren't going to be fun.

00:46:16   And so you're looking at the end result of trying to solve a bunch of problems.

00:46:23   One of those problems is, well, if I'm playing rock, paper, scissors, people are going to

00:46:30   lose.

00:46:31   Like basically, the definition of this game is every honest player will lose eventually.

00:46:38   Some people might make it to one in a million.

00:46:40   But we can easily round that off to zero percent of the viewers will win.

00:46:46   Well, that's kind of a bummer, isn't it?

00:46:50   Like, that's no fun.

00:46:51   Let's play a game.

00:46:53   All of you are going to lose.

00:46:55   Oh, right.

00:46:56   I don't like that at all.

00:46:57   So what I tried to do was slowly increase the number of ways that someone could have

00:47:06   more chances.

00:47:07   So this is where, depending on how people went through the maze, it's a bit like, if

00:47:11   you fail, I repeatedly try to give you multiple chances to get on a winning streak.

00:47:20   And so on the map that you're looking at, there's three vertical lines in the center.

00:47:23   Those are three main paths that can be winning streaks for a player.

00:47:30   They're like these columns?

00:47:31   Yes, those columns.

00:47:32   So the leftmost column at the top, that is the one video that is public, the one that

00:47:40   has a yellow line that's connected to it.

00:47:41   That's the start.

00:47:43   And if you just keep winning, you're going down that vertical column.

00:47:48   That is like you're winning the first game.

00:47:51   It's the golden path.

00:47:52   Yeah, the yellow line is just there for me to mark off that the final ending video where

00:47:57   I have like a general message to everyone who has played that also connects back to the

00:48:02   very first video.

00:48:03   So that's why there's that one color that's different.

00:48:06   I'm just talking about there's a bunch of boxes that are in a blue rectangle.

00:48:10   That is, if you keep winning every time, you're continuing down this first path for a one

00:48:17   in a million victory.

00:48:18   But you can be knocked off that path, but then you, I will, if you win after you get

00:48:26   knocked off, direct you to the start of a second chance to try to win a one in a million.

00:48:32   And then if you get knocked off that second chance, I will try again to redirect you to

00:48:38   a third chance to win one in a million before you are actually knocked off.

00:48:44   So the player doesn't know this at the start, but they really have three chances to try

00:48:49   to win one in a million, and that will only become clear to them when they lose the first

00:48:55   round.

00:48:56   Yeah.

00:48:56   Does that make sense?

00:48:57   It makes sense.

00:48:58   And so those three chances to win one in a million, those all then direct you to the

00:49:05   one in a billion and one in a trillion run.

00:49:07   Yeah.

00:49:08   So if you get to the end of any of those three, you'll get directed onto there.

00:49:13   And then across the top is something else that I added halfway through, which like doubled

00:49:22   the complexity of what I was doing when I realized like, wait a minute, if someone keeps

00:49:30   losing, like if they lose every time, that actually also starts becoming very unlikely.

00:49:38   And so I realized, oh, I can do what I called an anti-luck run where instead of winning

00:49:44   to one in a million odds, you can not win until one in a million odds.

00:49:50   So you draw or lose every single time.

00:49:53   And I often decide like I'm doing a project, I found the thing, this is interesting.

00:49:59   And then it is a professional delight when I find like, oh, there's something else that's

00:50:06   even more interesting in here that I just didn't even conceive of when I started the

00:50:10   project.

00:50:11   And this concept of like someone is anti-lucky and they never win, but they never win so

00:50:19   many times it's one in a million.

00:50:20   I was like, oh, this is delightful.

00:50:23   Now, of course, fast forward to where this was an absolute complete nightmare to make

00:50:27   and the worst part of the project because it's just too many videos.

00:50:31   And I was like cursing the fact that I had ever thought of this concept of anti-luck,

00:50:35   but yeah, so that's what the top of this is trying to show is all of those videos where

00:50:40   you lose or fail every single time and you get through the entire game without ever winning

00:50:47   and end up as a one in a million anti-lucky winner.

00:50:50   - How did you ensure the linking in the YouTube system?

00:50:55   Like this map is great, but like this is not how YouTube looks.

00:50:59   Like how did you correctly assign the linkages to make sure that it was done correctly?

00:51:07   - Yeah, so this was a severely not fun part of the project.

00:51:11   After everything's recorded, after all of the videos are made, after everything is exported

00:51:18   and we've gone through the different versions, it all needed to get uploaded to YouTube and

00:51:23   there's no way around it.

00:51:24   This was just pure misery.

00:51:25   This was an absolutely miserable time in my life putting all of these videos up.

00:51:30   So the thing that I worked out to answer your basic question is that I developed a code

00:51:38   to name all of the videos uniquely with a little bit of information that tells me where

00:51:46   in this map does this exist?

00:51:49   So again, on the screenshots, you can see that the videos all have names like R1H0

00:51:55   3W.

00:51:56   And so that means to me, it's like run one.

00:51:59   This is the first game where you could win one in a million.

00:52:03   It's hand three.

00:52:04   And then W means this is the video for the win state.

00:52:09   You know, so it's like, oh, R1H3L is like round one, hand three, but the losing state.

00:52:17   So all the videos had unique names.

00:52:20   I duplicated all of those names in Final Cut so that when I exported these videos, the

00:52:27   file name would be the same unique name as the script.

00:52:30   Uploaded them to YouTube.

00:52:33   We will shortcut the like unbelievable amount of work it took to just even get them uploaded

00:52:39   to YouTube.

00:52:40   But once they were there, I could then use the naming system to be able to find which

00:52:47   two end cards need to match up with this video.

00:52:51   So that's how that worked.

00:52:52   And if someone is clicking through on the videos now, those file names are still in

00:52:57   the descriptions of all of the videos as just a way for me to have a record of like which

00:53:02   script was this, which video was this, because when I was done, I didn't want them to have

00:53:08   these titles because I think it would just be distracting to people and they would be

00:53:11   trying to guess.

00:53:12   So I went back and then renamed all of them just with like a red or orange emoji for the

00:53:18   win state or the losing state.

00:53:20   On the YouTube back end, I now have pages and pages of videos that have no names.

00:53:26   They just have red and orange dots on the YouTube back end.

00:53:31   So that's how it worked.

00:53:31   The answer is a unique code for each script.

00:53:35   Use that to refer to the map to put the end cards correctly so that each video is linked

00:53:41   to where I have it in this map in Obsidian.

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00:55:50   Are your analytics ruined forever?

00:55:52   I guess also separate question because I saw a lot of people talking about this.

00:56:00   How do you feel like the algorithm feels about you?

00:56:03   Oh, the algorithm obviously does not like this video.

00:56:07   Okay.

00:56:07   It's another reason why like this project was just a lot of work.

00:56:11   It was also kind of crushing to work on because I was just constantly worried about this is

00:56:17   not what the algorithm wants.

00:56:19   The YouTube algorithm does not want the thing where a YouTube channel that uploads like

00:56:25   four to six videos in a year suddenly uploads more than a hundred, all of which are unlisted

00:56:33   except for one extremely short video at the beginning.

00:56:36   Like none of this is going to fit into whatever machine learning system has been devised to

00:56:43   figure out like what is happening here.

00:56:46   It was just interesting to see, but like, you know, YouTube provides you with all of

00:56:50   this information about impressions and I could see just straight away and I can still see

00:56:56   it that YouTube is just not interested in showing this video to people like it's so

00:57:04   clear the impressions data is the worst thing in a very long time that I have uploaded and

00:57:11   I can't say that I'm surprised by that.

00:57:13   It does create this really weird phenomenon though where again, like people will ask why

00:57:20   am I so happy with this video and like one of the reasons is the amount of positive feedback

00:57:26   I have gotten from people is just incredible.

00:57:29   It's like an order of magnitude more positive feedback than any project in a long time I

00:57:37   can think of because people who like this love this, but I also know that there's a

00:57:46   huge number of people who bounce off of this just immediately.

00:57:49   So I do just want to signpost here like my feeling is not even, oh, the algorithm should

00:57:56   have promoted this more.

00:57:57   I think that there's very many ways in which the algorithm may be totally correct in not

00:58:02   showing this to more people because just like the hexagon chess video, that was a video

00:58:09   where I knew talking to people, oh, people either love this or they just don't care at

00:58:13   all and the rock paper scissors one, I could tell it was the same thing.

00:58:17   They would either have a very strong positive reaction like, oh wow, that sounds really

00:58:21   interesting or I would get a reaction that was a bit like, so what?

00:58:26   Why am I playing a game of rock paper scissors against you on the computer?

00:58:30   You're not even here.

00:58:31   Like what are we even talking about?

00:58:32   So to answer the question, the analytics exist in this amazing place.

00:58:38   They are in some sense the worst video has done in a long time and it's also kind of

00:58:47   the best a video has done because roughly speaking, every view on average that is generated

00:58:55   on the first video translates to about 10 views in total from people clicking through.

00:59:02   So as of right now, this is a 14, 15 million view video project.

00:59:15   Right, so there's the video is one thing, but the project.

00:59:19   So like, you know, I was going to ask you, do you think this video is a success?

00:59:24   But I guess the question is, was this project a success?

00:59:27   And those are maybe two different things with wildly different outcomes.

00:59:31   That's the exact way to talk about this.

00:59:35   In some sense, I could like totally make the argument of like, oh, that rock paper scissors

00:59:40   video, total failure, like just very bad, not being recommended by the algorithm.

00:59:46   It's gaining no new audience.

00:59:48   It's also why like the number of comments I've gotten from people who are like, I never

00:59:52   even got recommended this by YouTube.

00:59:54   Also like order of magnitude, more of those comments than I normally get from people.

00:59:58   It's like, I'm not surprised.

00:59:59   So I could easily make the argument of like, oh, that rock paper scissors video.

01:00:04   What a disappointment.

01:00:05   But at the same time, this may be the most viewed thing in aggregate that I ever make.

01:00:13   Like if that 10 to one ratio holds, and if the first video crosses more than 3 million

01:00:23   views eventually, it will be the most viewed thing I've ever made.

01:00:28   It'll be the most like in total popular thing on the channel.

01:00:31   Now, like, does it entirely make sense to think about it that way?

01:00:35   I can easily argue like, no, that's sort of a dumb way to think about it.

01:00:38   But that sound is exactly right.

01:00:40   I view this project as a huge success for these two things.

01:00:46   What I was hoping would happen is happening.

01:00:50   That 10 number is really just an average, right?

01:00:53   What's actually happening is probably more than half of viewers are clicking once or

01:01:01   nunts and then a smaller percentage of viewers are having a freaking blast, like exploring

01:01:09   the maze behind the scenes.

01:01:10   Yeah.

01:01:11   And like that was the thing that I'm like, I'm just really hoping like, are there enough

01:01:15   people who just really enjoy going through something like this?

01:01:20   It's like, I know I would enjoy going through something like this.

01:01:23   So I hope other people are.

01:01:24   And that that has totally happened.

01:01:26   So again, I'm sort of going to talk about this at the end, but like this has been by

01:01:31   far one of the weirdest years of my life.

01:01:33   It's got to be the weirdest project I will ever do.

01:01:37   Like I just, I can't conceive that if I work on YouTube for another 10 years that I will

01:01:42   ever do anything as weird as this again, because it's just such an insane outlier.

01:01:49   It's kind of hard to know exactly how to think about this, but I can definitely tell

01:01:54   you like my YouTube backend is not easy to work with anymore at the very least.

01:02:00   Like I'm really used to being able to like scroll down that one page and see videos from

01:02:06   the past several years.

01:02:08   And now it's like, Oh no, no, no, dude, before you did this, you had like 200 videos in

01:02:15   total ever uploaded to the channel.

01:02:17   And you increase that by 113 in the space of two weeks.

01:02:22   So it's like, no, this is brutal.

01:02:24   Yeah.

01:02:24   You sound about this being like maybe the weirdest thing.

01:02:26   Like I always say this to you, but this is one of those times where people in my life,

01:02:32   like kind of like our mutual friends are like, what is he doing?

01:02:35   You know, like when people see it, it's like, wait, what?

01:02:39   I'm like, yeah, man, it is what it is.

01:02:43   He's done it.

01:02:43   He's gone and done it.

01:02:44   You know, you saying about the recommendation.

01:02:47   When you told me about this video, I was so excited about it.

01:02:51   Right.

01:02:51   And I was convinced it was going to be a success because it's weird and people will like it.

01:02:57   And I thought that it would get some element of word of mouth, like that.

01:03:01   It felt like a perfect word of mouth video.

01:03:03   And like, I saw it, you know, like in a bunch of blogs that I follow, we're posting about

01:03:07   it and, you know, on like various social channels and stuff.

01:03:10   Like in the relay FM members discord, everyone was having a great time when the video came

01:03:16   out.

01:03:16   Right.

01:03:17   Like it had that kind of feeling to it.

01:03:19   Oh, great.

01:03:19   But the thing that I was worried about for you, the fracturing of the social media landscape

01:03:25   that exists today felt like it did the video a disservice.

01:03:29   Like if this video came out in 2021 or something, and like all of the potential audience is

01:03:39   still using Twitter the way that they were, I think that this video would have maybe had

01:03:44   a, not massively, but a different trajectory.

01:03:47   Yeah.

01:03:47   I mean, maybe.

01:03:48   I'm not sure about the impact of this yet.

01:03:51   I don't think really any creator is like now that the social followings have kind of fractured

01:03:57   a little bit and conversations aren't like in one place as they were.

01:04:01   Like, I just wonder if it may have gone a little bit differently, if there was more

01:04:05   of a focal point around where people were spending their time online.

01:04:10   I'll just say for now, I have some thoughts around that that I kind of want to save for

01:04:13   the theme episodes.

01:04:16   But yeah, like there is something to that.

01:04:19   Okay.

01:04:19   Ultimately, there's no way we can know this, but it's just a gut feeling that I have, right?

01:04:24   And this is something that I think at some point, I mean, if we don't end up talking

01:04:27   about it in themes, I don't know what's coming up, that I would maybe want to touch on at

01:04:31   some point of like how social media for a content creator now is so different, just

01:04:37   like structurally.

01:04:38   I'll say this as a preview.

01:04:40   I think you are right, but I disagree with you on the reason.

01:04:46   We'll leave that for next time.

01:04:47   Yes, next time, which is themes, but we're doing yearly themes next in case people are

01:04:51   wondering.

01:04:52   We moved episodes around this year.

01:04:54   I was seeing some people be like, "Oh, State of the Apps, that means themes is next."

01:04:57   And I'm like, "No, it doesn't."

01:04:59   No, thanks to our content calendar, we have actually planned ahead to not have two absolutely

01:05:06   backbreaking episodes right next to each other.

01:05:09   We have instead, Gray talks about his completely life destroying project in the middle of the

01:05:15   two biggest episodes of Cortez here.

01:05:17   But isn't that better though?

01:05:18   Because we were really brushing up against the start of State of the Apps when you were

01:05:24   finishing this.

01:05:25   Which was like a worry, like we had to keep moving it and I'm like, "Oh, it is the most

01:05:31   listened to episode of the year and it takes maybe the most preparation."

01:05:35   I feel like I am just constantly causing my stress and problems in a bunch of different

01:05:41   ways.

01:05:42   But this is one of them, but this was also, I think you could sense that there was something

01:05:48   different from me because as I was trying to close down this project, just like when

01:05:53   I was creating the map while I was on the graycation, it's like I had to keep all of

01:05:57   this in my head.

01:05:58   The moment I started putting this stuff up on YouTube, I was extremely aware of, I cannot

01:06:06   stop.

01:06:08   I have to, now that I have begun, roll through and do just this all at once because the moment

01:06:18   I take a break from it and try to come back, it's like I will have dropped these hundred

01:06:22   plates that I'm trying to carry from one place to another.

01:06:25   So this is why I was like, "We do need to move things back and this is not an option

01:06:31   because if I take a break from this, I will have to start over from the beginning."

01:06:37   And yeah, that was part of what made it really brutal.

01:06:41   - There was one thing, I don't remember what it was, but it was if I needed something from

01:06:46   you, I don't remember.

01:06:47   I think it might have been the edit, something to do with the edit.

01:06:50   I don't remember.

01:06:51   But I remember feeling frustrated that we weren't moving it forward and there was a

01:06:56   moment where I was like, "I know this feeling.

01:07:00   I have not had this feeling for a really long time."

01:07:03   And then I was like, "Ah."

01:07:06   It clicked for me of like, "This one's different."

01:07:10   And I knew the project.

01:07:13   I didn't understand the scale of the project.

01:07:16   I feel like, honestly, until I saw that map, you need to see that to understand how big

01:07:23   it was.

01:07:23   But yeah, you are not constantly causing me problems.

01:07:26   You used to constantly cause me problems, but you don't anymore.

01:07:31   - Oh, good.

01:07:32   I'm glad to hear I've improved.

01:07:33   - But this one, it just had a different feeling in its scope and size.

01:07:39   - Yeah.

01:07:39   What you said there is also why I'm very happy for you to put this behind the scenes stuff

01:07:43   in the show notes, because I think even the people who have clicked around, it's difficult

01:07:48   to understand the scope of the project until you see a map of it.

01:07:53   Also, one of the other things that was just absolutely delightful from my perspective

01:07:59   and was a real confirmation of how people were really just loving it is the number of

01:08:06   people who made their own versions of this map was just crazy high.

01:08:13   The number of people I saw either manually trying to draw it out, people who were making

01:08:19   maps of like, where does this click over here?

01:08:21   There were so many different versions of that.

01:08:23   My absolute favorite one was someone who just took a ton of pieces of paper and by hand

01:08:31   with pencil tried to draw out the entire thing.

01:08:34   - Oh my God, they did the Always Sunny meme.

01:08:36   - Yeah, yeah.

01:08:38   - They were that person.

01:08:40   - Again, whenever you make anything and you put it on the internet, you're

01:08:42   always kind of vulnerable to this.

01:08:44   How are people going to react?

01:08:46   And this one in particular, I was really hoping, I just want some portion of the audience to

01:08:53   absolutely love it.

01:08:55   And that was the confirmation for me of seeing, people are spending hours and hours building

01:09:01   a custom website to try to list out what are all of the videos and you can click on any

01:09:05   of them to see the different things.

01:09:07   So drawing by hand and rearranging on paper, where do all of these videos connect to?

01:09:12   That to me was just the ultimate confirmation of people just love this.

01:09:17   Some of those people will know, I was removing some of those from the subreddit, but just

01:09:21   on the very first few days, it's like, I don't want spoilers.

01:09:25   - Yes.

01:09:26   - And this was basically like the ultimate spoiler.

01:09:28   So those are getting approved now, but anyone who made one of those things, like I did take

01:09:34   them off the first few days and I was trying to send messages to people like, hey, I totally

01:09:39   love that you did this, I just want to try to keep spoilers off for a little bit.

01:09:43   - I've got to assume people understand that.

01:09:46   - Everyone was on board with that.

01:09:47   Like I did just feel kind of bad because it's like, oh, this is such an outpouring of enthusiasm.

01:09:52   - Yeah.

01:09:52   - But also like, you know, again, like I'm trying to give people a certain kind of feeling

01:09:56   with this and the fun is the exploration.

01:10:01   And so if you just see the map, it kind of pops that fun instantly.

01:10:06   - Yes, because you shouldn't know.

01:10:08   - You shouldn't know how big it is.

01:10:10   Yeah, that's the whole thing.

01:10:12   - You shouldn't know that there's a whole second run.

01:10:16   Like you shouldn't know these things.

01:10:18   Oh, which by the way, I guess spoiler alert if you haven't done it, but like, I feel like

01:10:23   if you're this far into the episode, you've at least paused the podcast and gone and watched

01:10:28   the video, right?

01:10:29   Like I'm just going to have to naturally make that assumption about the listener.

01:10:33   - I mean, you know, look, we always find the outliers, but I feel like surely,

01:10:37   almost everyone who's listening to this podcast has played the game.

01:10:41   - Well, I mean, even if they hadn't, at least 20 minutes into this episode, they're like,

01:10:46   you know what?

01:10:46   I should probably go and watch this video so I know what they're talking about.

01:10:50   I now look forward to the comments of the people who said they didn't do that.

01:10:54   But tip of the hat to those people, because I do this, right?

01:10:57   Like I will listen to a podcast about a movie that I've never seen.

01:11:01   You know, I do it.

01:11:02   So like we all do it.

01:11:03   - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:11:04   Everybody does this kind of thing.

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01:13:00   I want to talk about audience, right?

01:13:03   Mm-hmm.

01:13:04   Because I assume that there's a bunch of things going on here too.

01:13:07   So obviously, spoilers, you wanted to try and avoid those as much as possible.

01:13:12   Did you do any like pruning at the comments?

01:13:16   I actually didn't need to do as much of that as I thought.

01:13:19   Like there was-

01:13:20   You'd locked them to start, right?

01:13:22   I think was the-

01:13:23   Yeah, yeah.

01:13:23   Which was the right call, I think.

01:13:25   I don't think this really affected people, but I was so annoyed because there used to be an option

01:13:32   on YouTube to hide the view count of a video.

01:13:36   And I wanted to have all of the secret videos have no view count.

01:13:42   Because I thought that that is a different kind of experience for the viewer to just-

01:13:49   to not know how many other people have seen this thing.

01:13:54   And it's like, that used to be a thing you could do.

01:13:56   I don't know when they took it away.

01:13:58   But I think in my head, I always thought it was there because I knew there's the option to

01:14:03   close the comments.

01:14:05   And what's also now like, basically ridiculous is the option to hide the like number, which is

01:14:11   like, what an appendix of an option now that they've gotten rid of the dislike button.

01:14:16   #NeverForget.

01:14:17   Like I can't conceive of why anyone would want to do that.

01:14:19   It's like, I want to keep the views, but I gotta hide the likes.

01:14:22   I don't want people to think that anyone liked this video.

01:14:25   It's totally bizarre.

01:14:26   But I think because I saw those two options there, and because the hide the like is incredibly

01:14:32   dumb now, like I was photoshopping in the hide view count option, which used to be there,

01:14:38   but they got rid of it.

01:14:39   And I only discovered that I'd done a bunch of tests to make sure all of this could work

01:14:43   beforehand.

01:14:44   But I hadn't tested hide the view count.

01:14:47   I mean, look, this is one of these things where it is probably best that I didn't discover

01:14:53   that during the testing phase, because I actually would have rewritten a bunch of the videos

01:14:58   knowing that that was the case and instantly doubled the workload.

01:15:02   So I didn't realize until everything was exporting.

01:15:06   I was so frustrated at that point in time, but it was like, whatever, I just have to

01:15:11   deal with this.

01:15:12   Because I guess what you're saying is if you would have known that you would have maybe

01:15:17   written things in the idea of knowing that people know that there are people that are

01:15:22   actually doing the run through who are not being honest, which is obvious.

01:15:25   Yes, exactly.

01:15:26   Like I would have written it in a way that sort of acknowledges what's happening with

01:15:30   the view count, but whatever, like it's, I'm not going to rework 113 videos.

01:15:35   So it's like, again, I'm kind of glad I didn't discover earlier in the process.

01:15:40   But yeah, so one of the other things I was really worried about is spoilers.

01:15:44   So that's why like the comments are just hidden on a ton of these videos, because logistically,

01:15:50   it's just impossible to try to keep track and make sure no one is spoiling what the

01:15:54   correct answer is at each step.

01:15:57   So it's like, there's comments on the first video.

01:15:59   And then there's comments on all of the endings, except for one.

01:16:06   I did turn off comments on that final video where I talk about the end of the human race.

01:16:12   And I know that people are frustrated with that, because people are like, oh, like I

01:16:18   got to the end.

01:16:18   Like I want to leave a comment.

01:16:19   I want to talk about it.

01:16:21   But this is me being the arty creator, right?

01:16:24   It's like, no, no, I want to force you to just sit with that thought for a little bit

01:16:31   and have nowhere to express it.

01:16:34   This again is kind of the thing.

01:16:35   I think when people watch something, there's a way they can pop their own bubble of thought

01:16:42   by just immediately reading the comments and then leaving a comment themselves.

01:16:46   It's like, no, no, no, just for that final ending, the important video, I've turned off

01:16:52   the comments because I want you to just have to think what you think about that without

01:17:00   being able to just read everybody's take on existential threats and humanity.

01:17:06   So yeah, so there's comments enabled in different spots.

01:17:09   It's mostly like having comments for a big part of the run would have ruined it.

01:17:15   I had to worry about spoilers.

01:17:18   And also I think telling people now that like I was planning that no one would even know

01:17:24   the view counts also explains why it's like I was going to have no comments, no views.

01:17:29   I guess this is the only case actually of suddenly realizing where I actually would

01:17:33   have wanted to click the no likes button because I would want to hide that too.

01:17:37   So you'd have no information.

01:17:39   So yeah, in case people leave breadcrumbs, you know, they've been here.

01:17:43   I wish I could have hidden the views.

01:17:48   God damn it, YouTube.

01:17:50   This is, you don't get to control it, right?

01:17:52   They do whatever they want.

01:17:53   Yeah, you got to work within the system.

01:17:55   The system still let me make this crazy thing.

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01:19:49   Something that I saw in a bunch of places that was very confusing to me to why people

01:19:55   were reacting this way was the question of what do I do if I draw?

01:20:01   When it was so obvious, like to me, like this is maybe one of those things where like, if

01:20:08   it's obvious to you, you don't know why people don't understand it.

01:20:11   Yeah, that's exactly what's happening.

01:20:12   It was on the screen.

01:20:13   You would show the hand movements.

01:20:16   Win was this, and lose was the other two.

01:20:19   And I guess in a perfect world, you'd have three end cards so you could have draw, right?

01:20:24   But then that's probably good because you would have done an extra branch of what if

01:20:28   you draw for one in a million, you draw every round.

01:20:31   So I am actually happy that they don't have three end cards because it would have added

01:20:35   even more work onto your plate.

01:20:38   First, I mean, just conceptually playing a thing, it's sort of easier for the player

01:20:42   to just have two options, but I was aware and I did know I am going to cause confusion

01:20:49   with some number of people over this issue of the draw.

01:20:54   It is also why I'm not surprised that the algorithm is just giving this video far fewer

01:21:02   impressions than other videos, because I do expect that that kind of confusion is something

01:21:07   that like the algorithm can basically derive from the viewers of like what's happening

01:21:13   here, right?

01:21:13   Maybe people are just taking a longer time before they go on to the next video or like

01:21:18   whatever it is, but I fully expect that like the algorithm actually can pull out some kind

01:21:23   of concept like user confusion at location.

01:21:26   So I just like, I just knew that I was going to take a hit on, I can't give people three

01:21:33   options.

01:21:34   I'm going to need to compress it down to two and I'll just, I'm going to take that hit.

01:21:39   But mathematically, the reason why is because if you think about it for a second, the problem

01:21:46   is with the statistics here that if a player draws, well, in rock, paper, scissors, you

01:21:52   go again and see then who wins or who loses.

01:21:55   But you can draw a second time, right?

01:21:59   Like just like you said, you can keep drawing a bunch.

01:22:01   And the answer to if you are going to try to resolve the draw, how many videos do you

01:22:10   need to do that?

01:22:11   The answer is literally an infinite number of videos.

01:22:16   It is not possible to guarantee you can resolve a draw in a finite number of steps.

01:22:23   And so that's why it's like, well, this isn't even a thing I get to make a decision about.

01:22:29   It's literally impossible within the YouTube system of you can only link to pre-made videos

01:22:36   to successfully resolve draws.

01:22:38   So I just, I just had to be like, okay, draws are going to count as losses.

01:22:43   And I did that because it just makes the game shorter than if you count draws as wins.

01:22:47   But in my first version, I actually was writing it as draws or wins.

01:22:51   But I realized it made the project significantly larger and it was just too big.

01:22:56   So I changed it so that draws are losses.

01:22:58   Like what it felt like to me was, and hey, look, if you're one of these people, I'm

01:23:02   sorry if I'm putting you in a bucket.

01:23:03   It felt like to me, people were reacting to a thing before they'd pay attention to it.

01:23:09   I mean, maybe I have a lot of sympathy here for two reasons.

01:23:11   One of which is just in the video itself, I never explicitly say draws count as losses.

01:23:19   Right?

01:23:20   What I actually did is this is one of these things that just happens when you're writing

01:23:24   a script, right?

01:23:24   There are some points in the script where you spend a lot of time trying to select exact

01:23:30   phrasing, but those places are not at all obvious to the viewer.

01:23:35   There's no reason that they should be.

01:23:37   So my, my language around the concept of fail is extremely careful because I'm trying to

01:23:44   be inclusive of loss and draw are both failures to win.

01:23:49   So I spent a lot of time on that, but the viewer doesn't know that, right?

01:23:54   That's a line that just goes by real fast.

01:23:57   So I never explicitly say draws are fails.

01:24:02   That's partly my fault.

01:24:03   Like I had longer versions where I was explaining stuff more and I basically made the decision

01:24:07   of like, this is too boring.

01:24:09   I really wanted to get that first video under three minutes in an ideal world.

01:24:14   I would have gotten it under two, but that was just compressing it too much.

01:24:17   So draws count as fail is part of the thing.

01:24:21   So right there, since I have not verbally said it, I immediately give a huge pass to

01:24:28   a large number of people for being confused at the end.

01:24:32   And then secondly, it is a very hard earned lesson from being a teacher that no matter

01:24:40   how clear you think instructions are, they could always be clearer.

01:24:45   And I don't think I did an amazingly clear job of explaining the concept that draws are

01:24:50   failures in the end.

01:24:51   Okay.

01:24:52   I will take back on my criticism of people.

01:24:55   Like it was clear to me, but it is fair to say like it's not necessarily something is

01:24:59   clear to everyone.

01:24:59   Yeah.

01:24:59   But here's the thing, like, I also feel like, no, but it is very clear, right?

01:25:03   The thing to me that is funny that you could miss something and then you go to like a social

01:25:10   media, like you have to write it or something to say like, what do I do?

01:25:13   It's like, you've spent so much energy to go and do the other thing.

01:25:19   Like it's the answer is there, but Hey, you know, I can't understand everyone.

01:25:24   That was kind of sad, but also expected.

01:25:26   And again, that's also why I was like, Ooh, there's a bunch of things that are just working

01:25:30   against this video.

01:25:31   And that is one of them.

01:25:32   But let me Mike, let me tell you what is my real heartbreaker about this video, right?

01:25:36   Just that, like I go, Oh, I never would have expected it.

01:25:41   I could not have predicted it in a million years, but it just kills me.

01:25:47   What ended up being the most work and the hardest part of this video is what I mentioned

01:25:54   before doing this anti-lucky streak.

01:25:57   What happens if you keep failing?

01:26:00   And there were some points where I was seriously considering cutting that whole part, but I

01:26:05   thought, no, no, no, no.

01:26:06   Like this is interesting.

01:26:07   You got to do it, man.

01:26:08   Like sometimes stuff is just hard and you need to push through.

01:26:11   And I'm really pleased with the way it came out and it makes me want to cry.

01:26:18   How many people had the experience of they lost and they just stopped.

01:26:25   They didn't click the lose button.

01:26:27   And I was like, Oh, right.

01:26:30   Because it's like, guys, no, no, no.

01:26:32   You don't understand.

01:26:33   I've given you so many chances, right?

01:26:36   Like there's a whole world to be explored here.

01:26:39   You just have to click the button.

01:26:43   But people were like, Oh, I never would think to do that.

01:26:47   Like I got comments where people were like, Oh, I lost.

01:26:50   So it was just over.

01:26:51   It's like, no, click the lose button.

01:26:54   Like, dude, I'm here for you, right?

01:26:57   I've, I've made so many interesting things for you.

01:27:00   We have a whole maze to explore, but you don't know if you just haven't clicked the like,

01:27:07   what happened button.

01:27:08   So keep in mind, rock, paper, scissors.

01:27:11   There's three things that can happen.

01:27:15   Two thirds of the people who watched that first video should click the fail button.

01:27:22   And I'm, I think maybe half of them just stopped because they thought the game was over

01:27:29   and they had just lost.

01:27:32   And that to me was the sound of my heart breaking into a thousand pieces.

01:27:36   But like, I guess this is one of those things where like,

01:27:40   You just can't know.

01:27:41   You just can't know.

01:27:41   No, but like people were so different because like to me, I'm like, I want to see what this

01:27:47   video is because like, I know there's another video there.

01:27:49   Right.

01:27:50   And so like, I'm just interested in like, what's he going to tell me?

01:27:53   Yeah.

01:27:54   Yeah.

01:27:54   You know, but I see the thinking I would never have assumed it, but I see the thinking of

01:28:00   well, it's over, right?

01:28:03   But it's not over.

01:28:04   There's so much more.