479: Do You Have a SCUBA-Diving Dog?


00:00:00   (energetic music)

00:00:02   From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 479.

00:00:10   This episode is brought to you

00:00:13   by Fitbaud, ExpressVPN, and Notion.

00:00:16   My name is Mike Hurley, and I'm joined

00:00:17   by Federico Petitce.

00:00:19   Ciao Federico.

00:00:20   - Ciao Mike, welcome back.

00:00:21   - Thank you.

00:00:22   No Steven this week.

00:00:24   Just to let everybody know,

00:00:25   Steven's had the metal taken out of his foot,

00:00:28   he's doing good, but he's on painkillers,

00:00:30   so he's giving him a week off.

00:00:32   - What should people do to tell Steven that he's missed?

00:00:38   - Just send him anything feet related.

00:00:40   - Yes.

00:00:41   Well, don't say that on the internet.

00:00:44   - I've said it.

00:00:45   You send Steven anything you want related to feet.

00:00:48   He'll appreciate it.

00:00:49   - Okay, yeah, sure.

00:00:51   Do that however you want.

00:00:53   - Uh huh, exactly.

00:00:54   Whatever that means to you.

00:00:56   - I will say thank you for the lovely haikus.

00:00:59   I felt very loved last week receiving all these haikus.

00:01:04   - I am pleased that that was your reaction.

00:01:07   That was the goal.

00:01:08   Did you enjoy people's creativity with the haikus?

00:01:12   - Yeah, they were very good.

00:01:14   But the main thing was people were just being very nice

00:01:16   to me, which was lovely.

00:01:18   It was, you know, I was on Mastodon,

00:01:20   I was just like scrolling through,

00:01:22   and there was just loads of lovely haikus,

00:01:24   people telling me how much I was missed.

00:01:26   Which was wonderful.

00:01:28   So I really appreciated it.

00:01:30   But so next time Steven's away,

00:01:32   we'll do something nice for him.

00:01:33   But to be fair, maybe he'll like the feet related content.

00:01:36   I don't know.

00:01:37   - I was just, some people are into that.

00:01:40   - If you don't want to send him weird stuff,

00:01:41   just send him a foot emoji, you know?

00:01:43   - Yeah, that works.

00:01:44   - Yeah. - It works.

00:01:46   Or it can be weird stuff.

00:01:47   We're not judging.

00:01:49   - I got some weird haikus, so.

00:01:51   - Cool, yeah.

00:01:52   - Most of them were lovely.

00:01:53   Yeah, some of them are odd.

00:01:54   - Yeah, yeah, that's fine.

00:01:58   - We gotta give a shout out to Eric,

00:02:00   because Eric did the thing.

00:02:02   - Yes.

00:02:02   - That I don't know anybody has done before.

00:02:07   - I think someone else did it before, but I don't know.

00:02:11   - If you have done this, what we're about to say,

00:02:14   then you can write in and let us know,

00:02:16   and we will, and I will correct myself next week.

00:02:18   - Yes. - But Eric did the thing.

00:02:20   Eric took a trip to Frederico Christmas trees.

00:02:23   - Yes.

00:02:24   - Which I think we will refer to

00:02:25   as the connected pilgrimage.

00:02:27   - Yes.

00:02:29   - They went to Frederico Christmas.

00:02:30   I don't know if they said connected sent them.

00:02:33   I don't know if that happened.

00:02:34   I know that was a thing that you wanted people to do,

00:02:37   but I'll put the link to Eric's Mastodon post

00:02:41   in the show notes, and Eric even calls it a pilgrimage.

00:02:45   - Yeah. - Took the trip,

00:02:46   went to Frederico Christmas trees,

00:02:48   had very nice things to say

00:02:50   about Frederico's Christmas trees.

00:02:52   Eric said genuinely the nicest

00:02:55   Christmas trees I've ever seen.

00:02:57   - Yep. - That's because you know

00:02:58   they source them from Ohio and all the other places.

00:03:01   - Everyone knows.

00:03:02   - Everybody knows. - Everyone knows

00:03:03   about Ohio. - Top quality trees

00:03:05   at Frederico's Christmas trees.

00:03:07   So yeah, thank you, Eric.

00:03:09   And if you wanna end up on this program

00:03:12   with the link in the show notes

00:03:13   and a mention just like Eric,

00:03:15   you just gotta do the weird pilgrimage

00:03:18   to Frederico's Christmas tree somewhere in Utah.

00:03:21   I never recall the name of the town,

00:03:24   but yeah, that's how you do it.

00:03:26   Thank you, Eric.

00:03:27   - So on last week's show,

00:03:28   a listener, Jason, wrote in to talk about the fact

00:03:31   that they dropped a AirPod in a pool.

00:03:35   - Oh yeah. - And you two,

00:03:36   and I was definitely coming along for the ride on this one,

00:03:40   couldn't understand why it took three to four minutes

00:03:42   to find a net when surely there was a net

00:03:45   already in Jason's hand.

00:03:47   So Jason wrote in to say,

00:03:49   to clarify about why it took me three to four minutes

00:03:51   to get the AirPod out of the pool,

00:03:53   I did have a net and I was scooping leaves

00:03:55   from the surface of the pool,

00:03:57   but this was in the deep end

00:03:58   and the AirPod fell about seven feet deep

00:04:01   where it was harder to see among the leaves.

00:04:03   I tried to use the net,

00:04:04   but it was challenging to scoop it out

00:04:06   with the net at that depth,

00:04:07   which is why it took as long as it did.

00:04:09   Now, what Jason hasn't said here is did Jason go in?

00:04:13   - Yeah, that's what I was gonna add.

00:04:14   - This is the last piece of information.

00:04:16   So Jason, if you could write back in again.

00:04:18   - Jason, did you go in? - How did you get it then?

00:04:20   If it wasn't for that.

00:04:21   - Did you send someone else?

00:04:23   (laughs)

00:04:24   - A really tall, do you live with a basketball player?

00:04:28   Did you ask them to go down and get it for you?

00:04:30   These are the questions that need to be answered.

00:04:31   - Do you have a scuba diving dog?

00:04:34   Like what, you know, like how,

00:04:38   so if it was challenging to scoop it out,

00:04:41   then how did you do it?

00:04:42   - Yeah, we gotta know.

00:04:44   Maybe you took an epic dive into the pool yourself.

00:04:47   - Maybe, maybe.

00:04:48   Is there video evidence of this, Jason?

00:04:50   Like we need to know at this point.

00:04:52   So stay tuned for this continuing series of follow-up items

00:04:56   about listener Jason and an AirPod

00:04:59   that fell into a pool seven feet deep.

00:05:02   - Listener Jono wrote in and said,

00:05:04   "Guys, I think I found Japanese Federico on YouTube."

00:05:07   - Oh, okay.

00:05:08   - This guy has built a pretty big following in Japan

00:05:12   for the use of iPad as his daily driver.

00:05:15   Then this week he drops a video about the X-Real glasses.

00:05:18   - Ah, see, see all us iPad people were doing this now.

00:05:23   Yeah, look.

00:05:24   Oh, look at Hiroka Yuta doing the thing with the glasses.

00:05:29   - Yep.

00:05:30   - Is that how I look with the glasses?

00:05:33   - I'm gonna, here's what I'm gonna say Federico.

00:05:35   I'm gonna go, I'm just gonna say a thing.

00:05:36   You are very cool, very handsome, right?

00:05:39   - Thank you, thank you.

00:05:40   - I think, I think that Yuta-san is cooler than you.

00:05:47   Look at him, look how cool he looks, you know?

00:05:50   So.

00:05:53   - Yuta-san doesn't have tattoos, so.

00:05:56   - Well, how do you know?

00:05:58   - Well.

00:05:59   - You don't know.

00:06:00   - Not on his hand.

00:06:01   - That's part of your coolness, for sure.

00:06:06   But you see, he's wearing,

00:06:08   he's got like the Japanese style of clothing,

00:06:10   which I just think is super cool.

00:06:12   - Yeah, very minimal, but I love the office.

00:06:15   Like very Japanese, very minimal.

00:06:17   - Very nice.

00:06:18   - Love the accent colors,

00:06:19   the yellow and the green in the background.

00:06:21   - The video is shot very well too, like.

00:06:24   This guy is a very good YouTuber.

00:06:27   Well, I don't know what he's saying though,

00:06:30   but I'm sure it's good.

00:06:31   - No, I have no idea, I have no idea.

00:06:33   But, I mean, 378,000 subscribers.

00:06:39   Let's see, skimming through the channel.

00:06:43   - Here's something I'm gonna say too.

00:06:45   I already referenced this in the pro show,

00:06:47   but I'm a big fan of the Kinda Funny podcasts.

00:06:49   They're sponsored by X-Real right now.

00:06:51   And I'm like, come on.

00:06:53   Bring that money over here.

00:06:54   We have the number one spokesman on this show

00:06:58   for the X-Real glasses.

00:06:59   - I have gone, as you will hear later in the show,

00:07:04   I have gone to such great lengths.

00:07:07   - Greater lengths?

00:07:09   - Greater lengths.

00:07:09   - Oh my word, okay.

00:07:11   - To make sure that I can use my X-Real glasses

00:07:14   exactly how I want.

00:07:16   - So come on X-Real.

00:07:17   Throw the money at your favorite boys.

00:07:19   What are you doing?

00:07:20   Speaking of throwing money at the favorite boys.

00:07:24   - Speaking of money.

00:07:25   - Go to giverelay.com.

00:07:27   You can get 20% off an annual membership plan

00:07:32   until December 15th.

00:07:34   This can be, you know, if maybe you are an existing member

00:07:38   and you're hearing this,

00:07:38   I'm gonna keep it short because of that.

00:07:40   You can gift this to someone.

00:07:42   Maybe there's someone in your life.

00:07:43   You love the connected pro so much

00:07:45   that you wanna gift a connected pro annual plan to someone.

00:07:48   You can do that by going to giverelay.com

00:07:51   or maybe you are thinking to yourself,

00:07:53   man, I really wish I could listen to all this cool stuff

00:07:56   they talk about on connected pro

00:07:57   and not have to hear any ads.

00:07:59   Also go to giverelay.com,

00:08:00   20% off an annual plan until December 15th.

00:08:04   So that's only like a week and a bit longer.

00:08:06   Do not miss out.

00:08:07   We only do this once a year.

00:08:09   So giverelay.com, 20% off an annual plan.

00:08:13   You can choose connected pro.

00:08:14   You can choose other shows too,

00:08:16   but you should choose connected pro 'cause it's good

00:08:18   and we're good and you love us.

00:08:19   So go to giverelay.com.

00:08:21   I have great news for you Federico.

00:08:24   - Okay.

00:08:25   - Threads comes to the EU in December.

00:08:30   - Well, it is December.

00:08:32   Where's Threads?

00:08:33   - So actually he's saying that I saw,

00:08:36   I got shared this via the algorithm

00:08:40   that there was an update yesterday to the Threads app

00:08:43   which includes localization strings

00:08:45   for lots of languages in like European languages.

00:08:48   So I think it's happening.

00:08:51   - It's happening.

00:08:52   So do I still have the app installed on my phone?

00:08:55   Let's see.

00:08:56   No, I do not.

00:08:59   I deleted it because it was too sad.

00:09:01   So this is, I mean, I'm pleased.

00:09:03   I feel like I've been sort of cut out from all this fun

00:09:06   that my friends are having on Threads.

00:09:09   And yeah, I will be back as soon as the law allows me

00:09:14   to be back.

00:09:16   So I can wait.

00:09:18   - I'm genuinely really keen to see what you think

00:09:23   of Threads coming into it cold effectively, right?

00:09:28   Because I mean, I've seen it change and expand.

00:09:33   - You've seen it change.

00:09:35   - Yeah, like it's gotten, it's very different now

00:09:37   from when it started, right?

00:09:39   - Like how so?

00:09:40   - Well, there's the algorithm, there's also the for you,

00:09:42   right, so like the for you and also like the following.

00:09:44   So you got that option.

00:09:46   Also the community has kind of solidified itself

00:09:49   a little bit more, grown a little bit more.

00:09:52   It's very different to master that in like,

00:09:57   at least for me, like the people that are there

00:09:59   and the type of content, it's very different.

00:10:03   And so I'm interested to see what you think of it

00:10:08   coming into it having not seen it change.

00:10:12   - Interesting, interesting.

00:10:14   Yeah, because I can, I'm seeing now that I can read

00:10:18   my timeline, but I can't do anything else.

00:10:21   - Oh, so that's changed.

00:10:22   - And I can switch between for you and following.

00:10:26   - So you weren't able to do that before, right?

00:10:28   So it's clearly had some--

00:10:29   - At some point I wasn't.

00:10:31   - Yeah, they can't.

00:10:32   - If I tap on a post, it still doesn't load the replies.

00:10:37   I can't see anything, but at least I can scroll my timeline.

00:10:41   This looks like from a quick scheme,

00:10:44   this looks a lot more like Twitter.

00:10:46   - Yes, it's the closest thing to a Twitter like experience

00:10:51   that I have seen, like kind of post my Twitter usage.

00:10:56   And I would say that is for good, but can also be for bad.

00:11:00   Like I get stuff served by the algorithm

00:11:03   that I don't necessarily want,

00:11:05   but I've kind of developed more of a sense of like,

00:11:08   if I see that stuff, I even mute those accounts

00:11:10   or block those accounts or just like close threads.

00:11:13   Like I get political stuff in there.

00:11:15   It's like, I don't want this.

00:11:16   Like this isn't what I want here, but yeah.

00:11:19   There is still a lot of interesting stuff though that I see

00:11:23   'cause a lot of it is based off the Instagram algorithm.

00:11:26   And so I follow a lot of people on Instagram,

00:11:30   a lot of different interests that I have.

00:11:31   And so I see a lot of stuff on threads, which is like,

00:11:33   oh yeah, I can see where you serve this.

00:11:35   Like I get a lot of F1 news on threads,

00:11:37   even though I don't follow accounts, but that's good

00:11:39   'cause that's what I want in the algorithm.

00:11:40   Like stuff I'm interested in,

00:11:41   but don't necessarily want all the time.

00:11:44   So I think it's good.

00:11:47   And I'm really intrigued to see what happens

00:11:50   when all of Europe joins threads as well.

00:11:53   - Nice, nice.

00:11:54   Well, we're coming threads.

00:11:57   - You better watch out.

00:11:58   - We're coming.

00:12:00   So, all right.

00:12:01   So what is it about this charger that you want?

00:12:05   Mic and chargers, like what's happening here?

00:12:07   Why do you wanna talk about a charger?

00:12:08   - So Dan wrote in to say,

00:12:10   how does mic like the Mophie three-in-one charger?

00:12:12   Which by the way, Dan, great memory.

00:12:14   'Cause I said that I wanted a charger for travel.

00:12:18   I mentioned this a couple of months ago.

00:12:20   This is the first trip that I've taken

00:12:21   since buying this charger.

00:12:23   'Cause I wanted post in my USB-C world

00:12:26   and in my MagSafe world,

00:12:27   I wanted a different charging solution

00:12:29   than what I was using before,

00:12:30   which is just like plugging in a bunch of cables.

00:12:33   I think that this Mophie three-in-one charger for me

00:12:35   is like basically perfect for travel.

00:12:38   It's a nice little like brick,

00:12:40   which kind of snaps together and you open it up

00:12:42   and you have Apple Watch, a MagSafe

00:12:45   and a little Qi spot for AirPods Pro.

00:12:48   And I will say since I bought it,

00:12:51   they've actually updated it.

00:12:52   It now has a 15 watt MagSafe and Apple Watch fast charger,

00:12:56   like in the new version, which I don't have.

00:12:59   But that wasn't, I thought,

00:13:01   oh, is this gonna be a problem?

00:13:02   But I didn't notice any issue with charging.

00:13:04   You know, I can charge them when I'm sleeping mostly.

00:13:06   And so it wasn't too much of a problem,

00:13:09   but it's cool that they did update it for this.

00:13:11   So yeah, I recommend this, like for a charging solution,

00:13:15   it folds down super small

00:13:16   and you just need like a USB-C cable and a brick.

00:13:21   It comes in a little pouch.

00:13:23   I didn't take all that stuff 'cause I use the,

00:13:26   I use the little multi-port travel charger

00:13:29   from the company's name I don't remember now,

00:13:31   but I'll find it and put it in the show notes.

00:13:34   That I'm really happy with that charger.

00:13:36   It was one that Gray found, Minit or something like that?

00:13:38   Minit charger?

00:13:39   I don't know.

00:13:40   I'll find it and I'll put it in the show notes.

00:13:42   But that paired with this is like,

00:13:46   it's pretty perfect for me for my needs.

00:13:48   I did notice that 12 South though,

00:13:50   have just released a very adorable

00:13:53   and nice looking travel charger.

00:13:55   But it's just Apple watch and MagSafe,

00:14:00   but that's probably enough.

00:14:01   Like I don't really feel like you need

00:14:03   an AirPods charger so much

00:14:04   'cause it can charge on both of those things, right?

00:14:07   But I think this is really cool.

00:14:09   It's called the butterfly.

00:14:10   It's a very cool looking piece of hardware.

00:14:12   It's very small.

00:14:13   Yeah, I think it looks good.

00:14:15   - Very small and of course you gotta provide

00:14:18   your own USB-C power,

00:14:21   but as long as you have any of these,

00:14:23   like modern gun chargers that are really small

00:14:26   or even just a USB-C battery,

00:14:29   like you can just power this thing

00:14:30   and supply 15 Watts and you'll be good.

00:14:34   So yeah, this is the butterfly from 12 South.

00:14:38   It looks really nice.

00:14:40   I may consider it as a travel thing.

00:14:42   - But I do really like this one that I bought.

00:14:46   So like I'm not gonna change to this other one,

00:14:49   but like this is very good.

00:14:51   Like this looks really cool too.

00:14:52   I'll be intrigued.

00:14:53   If you get one, I'll be really intrigued

00:14:55   to see what you think about it.

00:14:56   But this feels like aesthetically it fits for you too,

00:15:01   this 12 South one.

00:15:02   I feel like this is like a Federico style kind of thing.

00:15:04   - Yeah.

00:15:05   Oh, and actually it seems like it actually comes

00:15:07   with a braided USB-C cable and a bunch of travel adapters.

00:15:12   So there you go.

00:15:12   You don't even need to provide your own power.

00:15:14   This is perfect.

00:15:16   So yeah, I'm a big fan of 12 South products

00:15:18   and I think I may get this one actually.

00:15:21   - Looks really nice.

00:15:23   - It does look really nice actually.

00:15:25   Yeah, Minix is the thing.

00:15:27   I was M-I-N-I-X.

00:15:28   That's the turbo three port GAN wall charger.

00:15:32   That's my charger of choice.

00:15:34   There's two USB-C, one USB-A.

00:15:36   I actually really like this thing.

00:15:38   This is another top recommendation.

00:15:40   This one came from Gray.

00:15:41   I really like it.

00:15:43   This episode is brought to you in part

00:15:45   by our friends over at Fitbod.

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00:18:07   A thanks to Fitbod for their support of this show

00:18:10   and Relay FM.

00:18:11   Everyone's going wild on the internet for the Beeper Mini.

00:18:16   - Beeper. - Beeper Mini.

00:18:18   - I love the name, Beeper Mini.

00:18:20   - This is, I think in our part of the world,

00:18:23   has taken over, it's taken everybody by storm

00:18:27   in the last week or last, actually 24 hours or so.

00:18:31   - Yes.

00:18:32   - How familiar are you with this thing so far?

00:18:34   - I've tried Beeper, both Beeper and Texts,

00:18:39   which is a similar competing product

00:18:41   by the makers of WordPress.

00:18:43   A few weeks ago, I have both a Beeper and a Texts account.

00:18:48   These are both services that try to sort of consolidate

00:18:54   your messaging services into a single chat UI.

00:18:57   And I tried Beeper before,

00:19:00   but that's when they were using the Relay method

00:19:03   for accessing iMessage,

00:19:06   which essentially involved spinning up

00:19:09   a virtual Mac in the cloud and logging in with your Apple ID.

00:19:12   But this is a different thing.

00:19:14   Beeper Mini is an Android client for iMessage

00:19:18   that actually logs you into iMessage

00:19:21   without having a computer somewhere in the cloud

00:19:23   with your account.

00:19:25   And this is possible because Beeper Mini talks directly

00:19:28   to the iMessage API in the cloud,

00:19:32   since they were able to reverse engineer the whole thing.

00:19:36   - That is the key difference.

00:19:38   I really recommend a friend of the show,

00:19:41   Quinn Nelson made a really great video

00:19:43   kind of showing how this works

00:19:45   and then actually showing how it works in action.

00:19:47   Like he was talking to this system himself, right?

00:19:52   Like as well, like to kind of show,

00:19:54   'cause it's all on, it's all open source,

00:19:56   like the way that this is being reverse engineered.

00:19:58   But if you wanna use it,

00:20:00   like actually on your Android phone,

00:20:03   Beeper Mini is the way to do it.

00:20:05   It is a monthly subscription of $2 a month

00:20:07   created by the founder of Pebble,

00:20:10   which is funny to me, the smartwatch.

00:20:12   He created the company Beeper

00:20:14   and then there was an engineer who I think is a student

00:20:19   who worked out this reverse engineering method.

00:20:22   And it effectively allows for iMessage on an Android phone

00:20:27   and supports like group messages

00:20:31   with the data that comes with them,

00:20:32   like names and photos and stuff,

00:20:34   sharing full rise media, typing indicators,

00:20:37   threads like the way that threading works in iMessage,

00:20:40   support stickers and gifts, tap backs, basically everything.

00:20:44   It's only missing stuff like message effects

00:20:46   and iMessage apps,

00:20:48   which it says they don't think they'll ever be able

00:20:50   to work out, which I think we're all good with that.

00:20:53   This is pretty wild.

00:20:55   Like essentially you're not creating a new,

00:20:59   you don't even need to create an iMessage account

00:21:02   like an Apple ID for this.

00:21:03   It just works with your Android phone number.

00:21:07   It's wild, it's absolutely wild.

00:21:10   And if you're Apple, you gotta believe that

00:21:13   they must be so upset that this is possible.

00:21:17   And I don't know if technically possible at all,

00:21:20   but I am pretty confident that they're trying,

00:21:24   all they can do to close whatever technique they used

00:21:28   to reverse engineer iMessage.

00:21:31   But it may be, if this is an actual like complete

00:21:34   reverse engineer of how iMessages are sent from an iPhone

00:21:39   to another Apple device, which seems to be the case.

00:21:43   It may be hard for Apple to close this loophole

00:21:46   because it's not technically a loophole.

00:21:49   If you are simulating and if you're saying,

00:21:52   I'm an iPhone, I'm an Apple device, I'm sending iMessages.

00:21:55   I don't wanna get too technical here,

00:21:58   but also because I cannot get this technical.

00:22:01   - I mean, I watch Quinn's video

00:22:03   and this is a little above my pay grade.

00:22:06   - Yeah, so I don't even know if it's possible

00:22:09   for Apple to close this,

00:22:11   but I have to believe that they're trying.

00:22:14   Because obviously--

00:22:16   - I don't know, I don't know.

00:22:18   - Like why not?

00:22:19   - They might want to, I'm very sure they will want to,

00:22:24   but it's awkward right now, right?

00:22:29   Because they're at the same time trying to say

00:22:32   they're not a gatekeeper.

00:22:34   But I feel like probably the way around this

00:22:37   is some element of it's breaking a term.

00:22:42   - Oops, we accidentally,

00:22:45   or they just could release an upgrade to iMessage

00:22:49   and in the process it breaks this third party integrations

00:22:54   and they'd be like, no, we just applied our regular updates

00:22:58   to the iMessage service.

00:22:59   - Realistically that could just happen anyway, right?

00:23:02   Like that could just happen as part of like

00:23:04   a course of business kind of thing.

00:23:06   But here's the thing,

00:23:09   if this happened two or three years ago,

00:23:12   I'd feel very confident they'd get it shut down.

00:23:15   But I think just the politics--

00:23:18   - Now they gotta tread lightly is what you're saying

00:23:21   because they are under the microscope of the EU.

00:23:26   - And we've seen documentation that has come out

00:23:30   in court cases where they're talking about the fact

00:23:33   that iMessage is a lock-in for the iOS ecosystem.

00:23:38   Like there are conversations where some exact,

00:23:41   I don't remember who it was,

00:23:42   I think someone mentioned to Phil Schiller

00:23:43   or Phil Schiller sent to someone

00:23:45   about should we put it on Android?

00:23:47   And it was like, no, we shouldn't do that.

00:23:48   So like it's a bad look to shut this down now.

00:23:53   Like realistically, like I know it's a big deal,

00:23:58   but like if you're gonna go to these lengths,

00:24:02   you're not switching to an iPhone.

00:24:04   Like anyway, I've got to believe like someone

00:24:06   who would pay $2 a month to be a blue bubble

00:24:10   rather than a green bubble is like,

00:24:12   they're pretty entrenched I'm sure, right at this point.

00:24:15   Like are you really gonna grab that customer?

00:24:17   I don't know, maybe I'm not fully understanding

00:24:20   the like psychology of someone making this decision,

00:24:25   but I just feel like it's kind of like, what's the point?

00:24:27   Like make these people dance, right?

00:24:31   Make their lives harder in some way or another

00:24:33   by making changes to the system

00:24:35   because you're gonna make changes to the system.

00:24:38   But I feel like they want,

00:24:40   but also they're a very litigious company.

00:24:42   Look, if they haven't sent a cease and desist,

00:24:49   I'd be very surprised, but cease and desists can be argued

00:24:53   and like without anybody ever knowing anything about it.

00:24:55   And so like you can go around and around on this one

00:25:00   and people might be able to get a good case together,

00:25:02   but I'm pretty confident that,

00:25:04   I'm pretty confident this is breaking

00:25:08   an end user license agreement,

00:25:09   but at the same time,

00:25:11   at the same time, if you're not signing up

00:25:13   for an Apple ID to do this,

00:25:14   are you breaking an end user license agreement?

00:25:19   I don't know, man.

00:25:19   - If I was Beeper, I would,

00:25:23   and if Apple came with a cease and desist

00:25:26   or like in any sort of litigious form,

00:25:29   I would seriously consider an acquisition

00:25:31   from a bigger company to have the resources to fight them.

00:25:35   - Oh yeah.

00:25:37   Take this to Samsung or?

00:25:39   - Yeah.

00:25:40   - Yeah, but would Samsung want to touch it, right?

00:25:42   'Cause that feels like,

00:25:44   I see what you're saying, but at the same time,

00:25:48   this is like something falling off the back of a truck.

00:25:53   These are like hot goods.

00:25:57   Like, I don't know, you want to go near this?

00:26:00   - I'll say this though,

00:26:01   what this opens up for us Apple users,

00:26:05   and I'm going to say this,

00:26:07   just something that came to my mind 20 seconds ago.

00:26:10   iMessage obviously has a pretty strong locking effect, right?

00:26:16   Our group chat is on iMessage.

00:26:19   My thread with Sylvia is on iMessage.

00:26:22   I got all my groups in there,

00:26:25   but now with this Beeper solution,

00:26:27   I could realistically consider

00:26:29   something like a foldable device

00:26:34   that I use as my reading, like as an e-reader,

00:26:37   like one of these Samsung or,

00:26:40   what's the other company that makes the cool foldable?

00:26:42   OnePlus, is it?

00:26:43   No, it's not OnePlus.

00:26:45   Who is it that makes another interesting foldable device?

00:26:48   - Oh, it is the, well, OnePlus is making one right now.

00:26:52   - OnePlus is making one.

00:26:53   - It's based on the Oppo.

00:26:54   - Oppo, yes, thank you.

00:26:56   - 'Cause they're the same company essentially.

00:26:58   - Whenever I tried Android devices as like consumption,

00:27:02   because Android devices,

00:27:03   especially the tablet form factor ones,

00:27:06   are great for reading, watching YouTube and emulators, right?

00:27:11   Because from the Google Play Store,

00:27:13   you can get all of these things.

00:27:15   But whenever I set up one of those Android devices,

00:27:19   I missed the fact that I couldn't text you guys, you know?

00:27:23   It's like, oh, I gotta grab my phone.

00:27:25   And you know, now with this, with Beeper Mini,

00:27:30   I could stay logged into iMessage,

00:27:33   but finally use one of these Android foldables

00:27:37   as my entertainment devices.

00:27:39   - Yeah, because we could just add your Android phone number

00:27:42   to the group chat for the time that you're-

00:27:45   - Yep.

00:27:46   - Yeah.

00:27:47   Just $2 a month.

00:27:49   - Mm-hmm, $2 a month, Beeper Mini, until it lasts, I guess.

00:27:54   If it lasts.

00:27:56   - That is like, I could not,

00:27:58   if you tell me to put money on

00:28:00   whether Apple will try and get it taken down or not,

00:28:02   I feel like I couldn't, because this is very complicated.

00:28:05   Like, I can see that it's very difficult for them,

00:28:10   but they do a lot of things which I wouldn't do

00:28:13   if I was them, right?

00:28:14   Like, they still do them anyway.

00:28:16   And like, they make decisions around like, I don't know.

00:28:21   I don't know if this is a good idea, but they do it anyway.

00:28:23   So maybe they will like, lawyer up.

00:28:27   - Yeah.

00:28:28   - I wanna know what John thinks about this.

00:28:31   - Oh, we'll be able to ask him soon.

00:28:35   - All right, 'cause he's gonna be on the show next week,

00:28:37   right?

00:28:38   Maybe we could talk about it if, well, I won't be around.

00:28:41   - Maybe in a week, Beeper Mini won't be around anymore.

00:28:43   Who knows?

00:28:44   - Maybe it won't even matter.

00:28:46   - Who knows?

00:28:47   - See what OCG thinks.

00:28:48   Here's the thing, I wanted to talk to you

00:28:49   about the IA writer AI thing.

00:28:53   I put it in the show notes today,

00:28:54   just when I saw the headline.

00:28:56   I then went and read about it

00:28:57   and I find it way less interesting,

00:28:59   but I don't wanna talk to you about it anyway.

00:29:01   So IA, the Information Architects

00:29:04   is the name of the company, right?

00:29:05   - Yes, that is correct.

00:29:06   - They have introduced a new tool in IA Writer

00:29:11   to allow you to have a greater view

00:29:16   over what text would look like

00:29:19   if you're using an AI assistant to help you.

00:29:22   Their whole focus with this update is

00:29:26   having AI help you write, but not write for you.

00:29:29   So the idea is you would be writing something

00:29:33   and then you want some help from Check GPT.

00:29:35   You go to Check GPT, you ask it to write something for you.

00:29:38   And when you copy and paste that text into IA Writer,

00:29:43   and you can choose to paste as it came from AI

00:29:46   and it changes the color of the text.

00:29:48   So your text that you write is in black,

00:29:51   the text that the AI writes is in gray,

00:29:53   the idea being that you would go as a good writer

00:29:56   and edit what the AI system gave you.

00:30:00   So then you can get a view of how much has been changed

00:30:03   before you publish that text or whatever.

00:30:05   This is interesting, but when I heard about it,

00:30:08   I thought that they'd integrated Check GPT into the system,

00:30:11   which I think would be much more compelling

00:30:14   as a way to deal with this,

00:30:15   that like you would call in an IA Writer,

00:30:19   you give it a prompt, like you can do in a bunch of apps

00:30:21   and it would write the text for you

00:30:23   and it would appear in a different color

00:30:24   and then you could edit it.

00:30:25   - Oh yeah, see that's something else

00:30:27   that I would also very much like, yes.

00:30:30   - This is what it should do, but instead,

00:30:32   it's just a fancy copy and paste.

00:30:34   But the formatting idea is very good

00:30:36   and they're actually trying to push this

00:30:38   as like to become a standard,

00:30:40   that like that you're very aware of what you,

00:30:42   once it's finished, what you wrote and what the AI wrote

00:30:45   and like you can take your own thought about that.

00:30:48   - And this is where,

00:30:49   I'm gonna say something potentially controversial

00:30:53   because I saw a lot of people loving this feature

00:30:58   and I'm very confused by it.

00:31:00   I love IA Writer, I think it's a really good app

00:31:03   and it's my text editor when I'm not using Obsidian.

00:31:06   If I wanna edit like a markdown file from someone else,

00:31:10   that's what I use.

00:31:10   I've been using IA Writer for a very long time.

00:31:13   But I don't get this feature.

00:31:15   It almost feels like, and I get this sort of vibe

00:31:19   from the announcement that, and maybe it's just me,

00:31:23   look, maybe it's just my perspective,

00:31:25   but I almost get the feeling

00:31:27   that they wanna make you feel bad

00:31:30   for using AI generated content,

00:31:32   like shaming you into making you feel like,

00:31:35   ha ha, you fool, look at this.

00:31:36   Chat GPT wrote this, not you.

00:31:38   Like I don't like that whole attitude of like,

00:31:42   who now computers and AI are gonna replace humans.

00:31:47   So now we're gonna give you a feature to make you feel bad

00:31:51   about the things that you did and write yourself.

00:31:53   And like, and I don't get it because like,

00:31:56   if I'm the writer and I'm using the application IA Writer,

00:32:00   and then I go to the Chat GPT website

00:32:02   and I ask Chat GPT for something,

00:32:04   and then I manually paste it back into IA Writer,

00:32:08   I know what I wrote and I know what it's not mine.

00:32:11   Like the whole point of being a writer

00:32:13   should be that you know what you wrote.

00:32:15   So why should I make myself feel bad

00:32:19   for getting a little help from another tool?

00:32:24   - I mean, this feels to me - I don't get it.

00:32:25   - like one of those features that like,

00:32:28   we're a writers writing app, you know?

00:32:31   - Okay.

00:32:32   - You know what I mean?

00:32:33   And so it's like, we would never, you know,

00:32:36   we're above this.

00:32:37   - Sure.

00:32:38   - I think that there's something interesting to that.

00:32:41   And I see, but I see where,

00:32:44   interesting to what they're doing,

00:32:45   but I see where you're coming from.

00:32:47   And it's like, maybe it just depends on somebody's,

00:32:49   the way that they approach it.

00:32:50   But I do feel though, like,

00:32:55   so like Kate in the chat has paused the idea,

00:32:58   but what if you wrote something, left for a week,

00:33:01   came back, would you still remember?

00:33:03   - Nope, I've been doing this for 15 years.

00:33:06   Let me tell you, I remember every single thing I wrote.

00:33:08   - Let's say you would,

00:33:09   but I can imagine where Kate is coming from,

00:33:11   that someone could forget.

00:33:12   But what I would say to that is--

00:33:15   - But someone who would forget

00:33:17   is someone who uses IE Writer?

00:33:18   - Maybe, but let's imagine this gets integrated

00:33:22   into every app, right?

00:33:23   But the point that I would make to Kate's point is,

00:33:26   if you forget, does it matter?

00:33:29   Like, if you use ChatGPT to help you write something,

00:33:35   and at the end of it, you don't know, does it matter?

00:33:40   - No, it does not matter.

00:33:41   That's what I'm saying.

00:33:42   Like, if you do it manually and intentionally,

00:33:47   and if you do this for a living,

00:33:51   you will remember what you wrote and what you didn't.

00:33:55   And if you're the kind of writer who doesn't remember,

00:33:58   and you use ChatGPT to help you create content,

00:34:01   it means you don't care what you wrote

00:34:03   and what ChatGPT wrote,

00:34:05   therefore the feature doesn't make a lot of sense,

00:34:07   because you don't care anyway.

00:34:09   - And then, so like Ryan says here,

00:34:11   this is a really interesting conversation.

00:34:13   Ryan says, "For a lot of professional work,

00:34:14   "directly copying from ChatGPT would not fly."

00:34:17   Yes, so don't do it, right?

00:34:20   Like, if you shouldn't do it, don't do it, right?

00:34:25   Like, that's why--

00:34:26   - Like, how can I help myself?

00:34:28   I just look at that ChatGPT website.

00:34:30   - I tripped and fell.

00:34:31   - I tripped and fell into the ChatGPT copy and paste box.

00:34:34   I don't know how.

00:34:35   - Because in a mode like that, use it,

00:34:37   but don't copy and paste from it, right?

00:34:39   Like, use it to help spark some thoughts for you,

00:34:43   but then write your own words.

00:34:44   - Yep.

00:34:45   - Like, I think that there is,

00:34:48   I think there is something interesting here,

00:34:50   but I see where you're coming from.

00:34:52   It's an interesting way of trying to address a problem,

00:34:55   but is the problem there?

00:34:57   I don't know.

00:34:58   - I guess a better way to frame my position would be

00:35:00   that as soon as I saw this announcement,

00:35:03   and I was on the beta and everything,

00:35:06   I felt this mismatch between the audience

00:35:10   of IA Writer and this feature.

00:35:14   - Yeah, I think you're right.

00:35:15   - Because I strongly feel like the audience,

00:35:18   the typical customer of IA Writer,

00:35:21   is not the kind of person who copies and pastes from ChatGPT.

00:35:26   - Yep.

00:35:28   - You know?

00:35:28   - Yep, I think you're right.

00:35:29   - And it's like, they made a feature for a person

00:35:34   who does not use ChatGPT.

00:35:36   And so it's like, why?

00:35:40   Anyway, IA Writer is pretty cool.

00:35:43   I will never use this feature, but they should,

00:35:45   like, I would totally use an integrated version of like,

00:35:48   hey, help me proofread this stuff.

00:35:50   - Yeah.

00:35:51   - You know, but don't, you know,

00:35:52   if my personal opinion, if you are a writer for a living,

00:35:56   don't let ChatGPT write your stuff, you know?

00:36:01   - With me, for a lot of, like, for this stuff right now,

00:36:04   I use ChatGPT a lot for improving my grammar.

00:36:07   - Yeah.

00:36:08   - Like, don't change what I wrote,

00:36:09   but make it better for people that read it and get annoyed.

00:36:13   - That's great.

00:36:14   - I will use it on the description of this episode.

00:36:16   Like, I will write a description for this episode,

00:36:18   I will paste it into ChatGPT,

00:36:20   and I will ask it to fix my grammar.

00:36:22   Because that is like my biggest use

00:36:25   of ChatGPT specifically.

00:36:26   I have also been using it for searching stuff recently,

00:36:29   and it has been better for me in some instances.

00:36:32   - Like, what kind of stuff?

00:36:33   What kind of stuff are you searching for?

00:36:36   - Let me actually, like--

00:36:38   - Well, I don't mean to pry in your--

00:36:40   - No, no, it's a good question.

00:36:41   - ChatGPT search history.

00:36:43   - I'm gonna look through my ChatGPT search history now.

00:36:46   Oh, okay, here's one.

00:36:49   So, we just did an update.

00:36:51   This is not intended to be promo, but here we go now.

00:36:55   We just did an update to the Sidekiq Notepad website.

00:36:57   Actually, we built the Sidekiq Notepad website.

00:36:59   We made a website for it.

00:37:01   And one of the things that I wanted

00:37:05   was to have quotes from people that have reviewed it.

00:37:08   And so, I asked ChatGPT to find quotes

00:37:12   from reviews of the Sidekiq Notepad

00:37:15   and give me the URLs that they came from.

00:37:17   And so, it could just go and search the entire internet

00:37:19   for me and pull out quotes.

00:37:22   So, I didn't even have to read the reviews again

00:37:24   to get the quotes.

00:37:26   Like, that is just a more efficient way to do a search

00:37:28   than me Google Sidekiq Notepad review

00:37:31   and then read through every article.

00:37:33   Like, I've read them before, but I didn't save the quotes.

00:37:36   So, I found that to be helpful.

00:37:38   What else?

00:37:39   - That's a good use case.

00:37:40   - When I was looking for budgeting apps,

00:37:45   I asked ChatGPT and it gave me a bunch of selections.

00:37:48   - Very nice.

00:37:52   - That's all I've got right now for you.

00:37:54   - Yeah.

00:37:55   I use it a lot for proofreading and for, yeah,

00:37:59   more complex searches that wouldn't cut it on Google,

00:38:03   especially when your query is framed more like,

00:38:06   there's like multiple steps involved.

00:38:08   Like what you just mentioned,

00:38:09   "Hey, I need to find people who wrote a review

00:38:12   of this product and also give me the links to those."

00:38:14   Like, it's a multi-step query.

00:38:16   And I think that's exactly what ChatGPT is strong at,

00:38:20   which, by the way, as we were recording the show,

00:38:24   Google released finally the long anticipated Gemini model,

00:38:28   which is already integrated in Google BARD.

00:38:32   So, there's apparently three flavors of Gemini,

00:38:36   Gemini Nano Pro, which is what BARD is using.

00:38:40   And there's Gemini Ultra, which is coming out next year.

00:38:43   So, more companies doing the ultra moniker for products.

00:38:48   But yeah, so now-

00:38:51   - I'm interested to hear what that's all about, but-

00:38:54   - Yeah.

00:38:54   - I don't really have a lot of hope for Google in this,

00:38:59   if I'm being completely honest.

00:39:03   I'll say some of the searches I remember that I'd done now,

00:39:07   but I just deleted them

00:39:08   'cause they weren't important to have in my history.

00:39:09   Like when we were on holiday,

00:39:11   I was asking for restaurant recommendations.

00:39:14   'Cause I could give it what I was looking for.

00:39:16   And it was just easier.

00:39:17   Like, I'm looking for this style of food in this area.

00:39:21   Could you recommend restaurants

00:39:23   that also have outside seating?

00:39:24   Like, that is so much easier to get results from

00:39:28   than Google, in my opinion.

00:39:30   Whether they're good results or not,

00:39:32   it's always a starting point.

00:39:34   But like that kind of query

00:39:35   is just better than Googling that query.

00:39:37   Although maybe I could use Google BARD now

00:39:39   to get that answer, I don't know.

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00:41:37   and all of Relay FM.

00:41:39   So I am aware of the fact

00:41:41   that there is some new hardware in your home.

00:41:44   When listeners last heard,

00:41:47   you had a Bridge Max keyboard,

00:41:50   Bridge Max Plus keyboard.

00:41:51   How was that fared?

00:41:54   - Lasted six hours.

00:41:55   - Okay.

00:41:56   - Well, to be fair,

00:41:58   that's six more hours that I was hoping for.

00:42:02   I thought it was gonna be totally broken

00:42:04   or that it wouldn't turn on.

00:42:05   It did turn on and I liked it quite a bit

00:42:09   for the first six hours.

00:42:11   And then the trackpad stopped working altogether.

00:42:14   And the worst part is there used to be

00:42:18   a Bridge Connect utility on the App Store

00:42:21   that you could download

00:42:22   to update the firmware of your keyboard.

00:42:25   But since the Bridge company went under

00:42:27   and then it was acquired again,

00:42:28   I read somewhere on Reddit

00:42:30   that the developer certificate of the app expired

00:42:33   and the new owners couldn't be bothered

00:42:35   to renew it.

00:42:36   So Bridge Connect is gone from the App Store.

00:42:39   I'm stuck on an older firmware for this keyboard.

00:42:42   And apparently the newer firmware,

00:42:44   like the latest version they released,

00:42:47   improved the trackpad reliability,

00:42:49   but there's no way for me to update the keyboard.

00:42:53   So the trackpad stopped working

00:42:55   and so did my hope for the Bridge keyboard.

00:43:00   It was nice.

00:43:02   And I can confirm that the new magnetic attachment mechanism

00:43:06   is so much better than the clips they had before.

00:43:09   The viewing angles were great,

00:43:12   but the trackpad was not.

00:43:15   - It's pretty important.

00:43:17   - Yeah, you know, it's like at some point,

00:43:19   like it just started acting totally randomly.

00:43:23   Like it's doing things it was not supposed to do.

00:43:26   So yeah, very unfortunate.

00:43:29   It's now in a drawer somewhere.

00:43:30   Hopefully at some point it will be possible

00:43:33   to update the firmware of a Bridge keyboard again.

00:43:35   We'll see.

00:43:36   But I have much bigger, let's say,

00:43:40   fish to fry, Mike, so to speak.

00:43:42   - Okay.

00:43:43   - The Dokko3 iPad keyboard.

00:43:46   - Oh, here we go.

00:43:47   This was the one that you had bought

00:43:50   and were waiting to arrive, right?

00:43:53   - This is, it took a long time.

00:43:55   Multiple carriers handed this keyboard

00:43:59   to each other and eventually to the Italian post office,

00:44:04   but I have it, it's with me, and I have thoughts.

00:44:08   So first off, build quality.

00:44:11   So I'll just say this.

00:44:16   The aluminum enclosure is great.

00:44:18   The sort of the flat back upon which you attach the iPad

00:44:23   is good enough.

00:44:26   It's got the same mechanism as the Magic keyboard.

00:44:30   The iPad is floating above the keyboard,

00:44:32   so it doesn't support as many viewing angles

00:44:35   as the Bridge one.

00:44:36   This has the same viewing angles of an Apple Magic keyboard.

00:44:40   But the keyboard is backlit and has a function row.

00:44:46   However, the keyboard is barely passable.

00:44:51   I don't love the travel of the keys.

00:44:55   I don't, they feel a bit flimsy to me.

00:44:59   Like they, you know when you have those keyboards

00:45:01   that make like a little plasticy noise when you,

00:45:03   I mean, Mike, you know about keyboards.

00:45:05   I don't love the sound.

00:45:08   I prefer the more muted approach of the Magic keyboard.

00:45:13   And yeah, I don't love, also I don't like how the letters

00:45:18   are not printed in the center of the key.

00:45:22   They're sort of printed in the bottom right corner

00:45:25   for some reason.

00:45:26   And this makes it feel like a retro keyboard to me.

00:45:29   I don't know why.

00:45:30   But yeah, it works and it's fine.

00:45:36   - Wait, the bottom right corner?

00:45:39   - Yeah, the letters are printed

00:45:42   on the bottom right corner of the key itself.

00:45:47   - Okay, I think that's going, that is a weird placement

00:45:50   to be that small too.

00:45:52   Like I'm looking on the website.

00:45:54   That is, they made a lot of decisions to get to that point.

00:45:59   And I feel like they were all wrong.

00:46:01   Like we're not gonna do it in the middle or the top left.

00:46:06   We're gonna do it in the bottom right.

00:46:08   - Bottom right.

00:46:09   - Are you gonna do it like the old Apple keyboards

00:46:12   where it was italicized?

00:46:13   No, we're not gonna do that.

00:46:14   Okay, what size are you gonna do the printing?

00:46:17   The smallest possible.

00:46:18   Okay.

00:46:21   That said, so the travel is not as nice

00:46:25   and as the magic keyboard, that's okay.

00:46:27   Now we get to the good stuff.

00:46:29   The build quality of the case is great.

00:46:31   It does feel like an Apple product.

00:46:34   It's sturdy, it's got chamfered edges, it's really nice.

00:46:38   The function keys.

00:46:40   So there was a lot of talk

00:46:43   when Apple announced the magic keyboard.

00:46:44   Oh, they couldn't do a function row

00:46:46   because then you wouldn't be able to access the function row

00:46:48   if the iPad is floating above it.

00:46:50   Let me tell you, you can access the function row just fine.

00:46:53   I was playing and pausing music, controlling my volume,

00:46:57   controlling brightness without having to use control center.

00:47:00   It's great.

00:47:01   I love having a function row there.

00:47:02   There's a button that simulates the old home button,

00:47:06   takes you back home.

00:47:07   They didn't do an escape key, which is a bummer.

00:47:11   I think I would have rather taken an escape key

00:47:14   than a home button or a home key

00:47:16   and there's no way to remap that button unfortunately.

00:47:19   So that's something worth keeping in mind.

00:47:22   But having a function row in there is great,

00:47:24   especially for quick music playback controls.

00:47:26   But the best part, Mike.

00:47:30   Actually, no, let me talk about the trackpad.

00:47:34   So the trackpad, it's not as nice as the Apple trackpad

00:47:39   and that is not a surprise.

00:47:41   But, but it is much better than the Brydge one.

00:47:47   So whatever this company, Dokomidi, is doing

00:47:51   to reverse engineer how a Bluetooth trackpad should work,

00:47:55   they have done a better job than Brydge so far.

00:48:00   I've been using this keyboard for the whole day.

00:48:03   I wrote in it, I've done email, I've done Mastodon,

00:48:07   I've used gestures for stage manager,

00:48:10   for just two finger gesture, three finger ones,

00:48:13   four finger ones, like they all worked.

00:48:17   The trackpad is not as perfect

00:48:20   as the Apple Magic trackpad, right?

00:48:23   Sometimes it lags for a fraction of a second.

00:48:27   I had to take the speed of the pointer up a notch in settings

00:48:35   because I found it too slow with the setting

00:48:39   that I normally use with my Magic keyboard.

00:48:42   Occasionally, when I hold down the Command key,

00:48:46   say that I'm in Google and I wanna hold down Command

00:48:49   and then click on a search result to open it in a new tab.

00:48:52   Sometimes when I hold down Command,

00:48:55   the pointer sort of lags behind for a fraction of a second

00:48:58   and then it catches up again.

00:49:00   But the thing is, I get the feeling

00:49:03   that they are obviously reverse engineering

00:49:05   how a trackpad should work

00:49:07   and they did it much better than Brydge.

00:49:12   I can use it.

00:49:13   I've been using this keyboard the whole day and it works.

00:49:17   But keep in mind that it's not as,

00:49:20   like if the Apple trackpad is 100% perfect,

00:49:24   this is like 75 to 80%,

00:49:27   the feeling of an Apple Magic trackpad.

00:49:29   It's a very close approximation, but still an approximation.

00:49:34   In fact, I would say that the worst part of the trackpad

00:49:36   is the build quality.

00:49:38   Just like the keyboard, it feels kind of flimsy

00:49:41   and I don't like the noise that it makes when you click it.

00:49:44   I don't know if you can make this out.

00:49:46   It's more clicky than a Magic trackpad.

00:49:51   - Is it like mechanical, the clicking?

00:49:55   Like can you click the entire trackpad and it still works

00:49:59   or is it like hinging?

00:50:00   - I can click the entire trackpad.

00:50:02   - Okay.

00:50:03   - Yeah, I clicked in the bottom left corner

00:50:04   and I opened an app on the home screen.

00:50:06   So yeah, it works.

00:50:07   The best part, of course, is the hub

00:50:10   in the back of the keyboard.

00:50:11   So in the back of the keyboard,

00:50:12   there's a full-on hub for USB-C, USB-A, and HDMI.

00:50:17   And here we get to the really good stuff.

00:50:22   The keyboard is provided with a short USB-C cable

00:50:28   that connects the iPad to the keyboard itself.

00:50:30   That's because the keyboard is also a hub,

00:50:33   so you gotta connect the iPad to the keyboard

00:50:37   via a USB-C cable.

00:50:39   You have this really short, it's like 15 centimeters,

00:50:41   USB-C cable.

00:50:43   You put it on the side of the iPad

00:50:45   when it's docked on the keyboard

00:50:46   and it doesn't bother me at all.

00:50:48   In the back, you have one USB-C port

00:50:51   for pass-through charging.

00:50:53   So when the iPad is connected to the keyboard

00:50:55   and you plug your main sort of USB-C source of power

00:50:59   in the back of the iPad into the USB-C port of the keyboard,

00:51:03   it works.

00:51:04   It fast charges your iPad.

00:51:06   So you have fast charging pass-through.

00:51:08   You have two USB-A ports for data,

00:51:12   and you have one HDMI,

00:51:13   then you have two SD and microSD slots.

00:51:18   I haven't tested the microSD slots yet,

00:51:21   but I have done some other tests today, Mike.

00:51:24   So I'm gonna talk about this shortly.

00:51:28   I also received my Sony Pulse earbuds

00:51:31   for the PlayStation 5.

00:51:33   And those earbuds,

00:51:35   they come with the PlayStation Link Adapter,

00:51:37   which is a small USB-A dongle that you plug into things

00:51:40   and allows you for faster connections than Bluetooth.

00:51:43   - It's USB-A?

00:51:44   - It's USB-A, yeah, it's USB-A.

00:51:46   I don't know, I don't know, it's USB-A.

00:51:49   Now, whatever DoCo MIDI did with this USB hub,

00:51:54   their USB-C, their USB ports,

00:51:58   both the USB-C1 and the USB-A ports,

00:52:02   they do not support audio pass-through, it seems.

00:52:06   I plugged my PS Link adapter

00:52:08   into the ports of the DoCo MIDI keyboard.

00:52:13   The PS Link was recognized by iPadOS,

00:52:17   but I couldn't hear any audio.

00:52:19   Then I plugged the PS Link adapter

00:52:22   into the iPad Pro directly, and it worked.

00:52:26   So there appears to be bugs with USB audio

00:52:30   with the DoCo MIDI keyboards.

00:52:32   Everything else, however, Mike, worked.

00:52:36   I tried my glasses, of course.

00:52:40   There's an HDMI out port, so I did an HDMI cable

00:52:44   connected to the HDMI adapter that I use already

00:52:48   for my Nintendo Switch, and then to my glasses,

00:52:52   and it worked out of the box.

00:52:54   So I can plug in my existing cable setup

00:52:57   for the Nintendo Switch in the back of the DoCo keyboard,

00:53:02   and it works, stage manager activated,

00:53:04   and I could use the iPad with my X-Ray or glasses.

00:53:09   Ethernet works.

00:53:12   I built an essential photos.

00:53:14   You can include these photos in the show notes.

00:53:16   I built this beautiful contraption of an Ethernet adapter.

00:53:20   See, I wanted to have an Ethernet to USB-C adapter

00:53:25   that didn't have, yeah, people in Discord can see.

00:53:33   I didn't wanna have the USB-C adapter sort of just, you know,

00:53:38   wobbling in the back of my iPad

00:53:42   or in the back of my Steam Deck.

00:53:45   We'll get to that in a few minutes.

00:53:46   So I created this monster that actually works.

00:53:51   It's an Ethernet patch cable

00:53:54   connected to a TP-Link Ethernet to USB-C adapter.

00:53:58   Then there's a USB-C female to USB-C female dongle in between

00:54:03   and lastly, the USB-C cable I actually wanna use.

00:54:09   I use this for my Steam Deck,

00:54:12   and I can use this for my iPad, and it works.

00:54:15   I get beautiful one gigabit Ethernet

00:54:20   on my iPad with the DoCo MIDI keyboard.

00:54:22   And lastly-

00:54:25   - You are still living in your own world.

00:54:27   No one's living in this world.

00:54:29   - Some people are.

00:54:30   - Well, there's actually this one person

00:54:32   who lives in this world, which is Hiroi Kayuta,

00:54:34   who we spoke about earlier on in the show.

00:54:36   I feel like the two of you are living

00:54:38   in your own plane of existence right now

00:54:40   with the things that you're up to, you know?

00:54:42   - So, maybe.

00:54:45   So the thing is, I'm going to keep using this keyboard

00:54:50   despite the many things I would change about it,

00:54:54   starting from how the letters are printed.

00:54:57   The convenience of the hub

00:55:01   and the convenience of the function row

00:55:06   makes it right now, at this point in time,

00:55:11   a preferable option to the Magic Keyboard

00:55:14   with a big asterisk.

00:55:16   And that asterisk being assuming

00:55:18   that the trackpad keeps working

00:55:21   and that the bugs don't start growing

00:55:24   or duplicating themselves over time.

00:55:27   Because I remain convinced that all these folks,

00:55:31   they are reverse engineering how a Magic Trackpad works,

00:55:35   and maybe something will break at some point.

00:55:38   - I'm pretty sure that when Bridge did this,

00:55:41   they said that that was what they were doing, right?

00:55:43   - Yeah.

00:55:44   - That they reverse engineered it.

00:55:45   - Yeah.

00:55:46   So right now it works,

00:55:47   and it's much better than a Bridge keyboard ever was.

00:55:52   I would love for Dokomidi

00:55:56   to make a fully adjustable version of this keyboard

00:56:01   with the same mechanism of the Bridge one.

00:56:07   - Yeah, 'cause again,

00:56:08   this one is closer to the Magic Keyboard, right?

00:56:10   - Yeah, the viewing angles are the same

00:56:12   as the Magic Keyboard really.

00:56:13   - It's cantilevering.

00:56:15   - Cantilevering over there, just floating above,

00:56:17   a function row, which is really useful to have.

00:56:20   Now, very quickly, Mike, before we talk,

00:56:23   I think you wanna, well,

00:56:25   I want to talk to you about my Steam Deck setup.

00:56:28   The Sony Pulse Earbuds.

00:56:31   These are the new sort of PlayStation 5 themed earbuds

00:56:36   that Sony is making.

00:56:38   I received them today, and I gotta tell you,

00:56:41   I was not expecting to love these earbuds,

00:56:43   but I do, for a very specific reason.

00:56:46   Not just because they look cool,

00:56:47   they look like a mini PS5,

00:56:49   but there actually is an earbuds case.

00:56:52   Finally, Mike, I have a single set of earbuds

00:56:57   that I can use with three separate handhelds.

00:57:01   - Okay.

00:57:03   - So, I said I believe on Unwind or App Stories

00:57:08   that I sold my PS portal.

00:57:10   I did not end up selling it.

00:57:13   The guy who bought it online didn't pay me,

00:57:16   so of course I didn't ship it.

00:57:18   - Good.

00:57:19   - And in doing that, out of curiosity,

00:57:23   I realized, well, now that I have an Eero

00:57:26   right next to me at night,

00:57:28   let me see if the portal improves

00:57:30   with stronger WiFi right next to it.

00:57:33   - Yep.

00:57:34   - And boy, did it improve.

00:57:35   It was much better with an Eero

00:57:38   sitting a meter away from it.

00:57:40   So yeah, I'm keeping it.

00:57:43   - Yeah, I bought one and returned it,

00:57:45   'cause it was bad.

00:57:48   - The lag was really, really bad,

00:57:50   and I did not enjoy it, so I returned mine.

00:57:52   - These earbuds, they are incredible for me specifically,

00:57:57   because they do exactly what I wanted.

00:57:59   I can use them with my Steam Deck,

00:58:02   the PS portal, and the Nintendo Switch,

00:58:05   each with a different connection method.

00:58:08   And you just can toggle between them

00:58:10   with the click of a button on the earbuds.

00:58:14   On the PS portal, the PS portal has native PS Link support.

00:58:18   You press a button on the portal,

00:58:21   and it detects that there are Sony Pulse earbuds nearby,

00:58:24   and it connects to them.

00:58:26   In the Steam Deck, as we'll talk about in a few minutes,

00:58:29   I can plug in the PS Link adapter directly,

00:58:33   so that the Steam Deck sees the adapter,

00:58:37   routes the audio to the adapter,

00:58:38   and I can hear games music in my earbuds.

00:58:42   - Why don't you use Bluetooth for that?

00:58:45   - Hold on.

00:58:45   I'm using Bluetooth for the Nintendo Switch.

00:58:48   So the same earbuds are paired via Bluetooth

00:58:51   to my Nintendo Switch.

00:58:53   So when I'm playing on my Nintendo Switch,

00:58:55   I just press a button on the earbuds,

00:58:59   and they connect to my Nintendo.

00:59:00   So one set of--

00:59:01   - Aren't they Bluetooth 5.1?

00:59:03   Like, you compare it to multiple devices with Bluetooth.

00:59:07   - Well, but I just prefer, you know, I have the adapter,

00:59:09   and I have multiple USB ports on my Steam Deck,

00:59:12   so why not?

00:59:13   And again, we'll get to that in a few minutes.

00:59:15   You know?

00:59:16   And this way, and I tested this before,

00:59:17   I tested this today, it works.

00:59:22   So I just, you know, cycling through multiple consoles.

00:59:26   Like, and I'm never gonna do this in real life.

00:59:28   Like, it's not like, oh, now let me play on the Steam Deck.

00:59:31   Oh, now I wanna play on my Nintendo.

00:59:32   Actually, no, let me grab my portal now.

00:59:34   Like, I'm never gonna do that,

00:59:36   but I tested it, and it works.

00:59:38   So they sound great.

00:59:40   They work with the portal, they work with the Steam Deck.

00:59:44   I got rid of all the earbuds I was using.

00:59:47   Now I have one set of earbuds for three handouts.

00:59:51   Beautiful.

00:59:51   - That's pretty good, actually,

00:59:52   to have like DC or gaming headphones.

00:59:54   - Yes, finally.

00:59:56   Like, I just have one thing that I can use

00:59:58   for all my portable devices.

01:00:00   - How's the audio quality?

01:00:01   'Cause these are plainer headphones, right?

01:00:03   - Yes, it's actually very good.

01:00:07   It's more biased.

01:00:08   I mean, being video game earbuds, it doesn't surprise me.

01:00:11   I'm gonna say something that you're gonna make fun of me.

01:00:15   For very biased towards trebles and highs.

01:00:20   Yeah, they sound good.

01:00:26   I wouldn't recommend it as music listening earbuds,

01:00:30   but they sound really good for what they do.

01:00:34   - How are the mids?

01:00:35   Are they crunchy?

01:00:38   - Yes, crunchy.

01:00:40   - Crunchy mids?

01:00:42   And the bass, is it a well-rounded sound stage?

01:00:44   - Crunchy mids, shimmering highs,

01:00:46   you know, all those adjectives are here, Mike, for you.

01:00:50   - Well-rounded.

01:00:53   Well-rounded, strong, crunchy mids and bass.

01:00:57   These do look cool though.

01:00:59   My thought was if I liked the Portal,

01:01:02   I was gonna get these because it's ridiculous

01:01:05   that the Portal doesn't have Bluetooth.

01:01:07   So you have to use wired headphones,

01:01:09   but I didn't like the Portal, so I didn't get these.

01:01:12   So if anything, I'm actually kind of happy

01:01:14   that they didn't release these at the same time,

01:01:16   which was ridiculous to me at first,

01:01:17   but then I didn't have to return two products.

01:01:21   So I'm happy about that.

01:01:24   But I have decided to take the money

01:01:30   that I got for my PlayStation Portal

01:01:33   and put it towards the consideration of a Steam Deck OLED.

01:01:37   - Oh, okay, let's do this.

01:01:38   Yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

01:01:40   - But before we get there,

01:01:41   let me take our final break of this week's episode

01:01:44   and thank our friends at Notion

01:01:45   for their support of this week's episode.

01:01:47   Notion combines your notes, your documents,

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01:01:56   thanks to Notion's new feature, Q&A.

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01:02:02   about the next quarter's roadmap,

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01:02:10   I am very deep into Notion now.

01:02:13   I have two spaces, I have one for me,

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01:02:31   maybe I want this to look like a calendar.

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01:02:45   And I have been using Notion AI

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01:02:48   My two favorite things that I've been doing so far,

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01:02:54   from meeting notes, I'm taking notes during meetings,

01:02:56   I could say, give me the action items

01:02:58   and it will go through and give me them.

01:03:00   And I've used Notion Q&A a few times now,

01:03:02   I used it just yesterday to be like,

01:03:05   what was the order that we wanted to make

01:03:07   for such and such project next June?

01:03:10   And it went through and found that I would talk about that

01:03:13   in a previous meeting and Notion Q&A

01:03:15   gave me the answers to that question.

01:03:17   Really cool, I didn't have to go search for it

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01:04:19   So sell me on the Steam Deck OLED.

01:04:22   - Okay, to sell you on the Steam Deck OLED,

01:04:26   the first thing you gotta know

01:04:27   is that the display looks incredible

01:04:30   and it makes your games look better.

01:04:32   And it's very pleasant for the eyes

01:04:35   and you're gonna be happy just by looking at it.

01:04:39   So the reason you should get it

01:04:41   is that you love video games

01:04:43   and this display makes you love video games even more.

01:04:46   - I love to love video games.

01:04:48   - Yep.

01:04:49   And the reason,

01:04:50   I'm gonna talk about my version of the Steam Deck shortly,

01:04:57   but seriously, the weight reduction is really nice

01:05:02   and noticeable.

01:05:03   The fact that it comes with Wi-Fi 6,

01:05:08   6E even, I wanna say, is remarkable.

01:05:12   You will see much faster downloads

01:05:15   when you download like chunky games,

01:05:17   like Cyberpunk, for example.

01:05:19   Cyberpunk looks really cool because it supports HDR

01:05:24   and this is OLED with HDR on this screen.

01:05:27   But seriously, it's not just like,

01:05:33   it really is remarkable how good this display looks.

01:05:41   I think it looks better than the Nintendo one, as a panel.

01:05:45   I think it looks better.

01:05:47   And playing any colorful game,

01:05:52   like I'm playing Sea of Stars at the moment,

01:05:55   and it looks just incredible.

01:05:57   Like it's so bright and vivid and it's nice.

01:06:01   It's a nice object, is all I can say.

01:06:03   My version of the Steam Deck I call the Tichi Deck.

01:06:08   (laughing)

01:06:10   - Tell me about the Tichi Deck.

01:06:13   - I have almost reached the final form of the Tichi Deck.

01:06:18   So this is something that started as an experiment

01:06:21   inspired by a Mac Stories reader,

01:06:23   who sent me a very nice email weeks ago.

01:06:27   So the idea is I mounted on the back of the Steam Deck,

01:06:31   a pluggable, slim Thunderbolt hub.

01:06:36   It's a five in one pluggable hub.

01:06:40   It's the smallest Thunderbolt hub in existence.

01:06:43   It's very, very slim.

01:06:45   And initially I mounted this with Velcro

01:06:49   to the back of the Steam Deck.

01:06:50   Now I'm using, for the moment,

01:06:53   an accessory called the Deckmate.

01:06:57   They also make a version for the ROG Ally

01:07:00   called the Allymate.

01:07:01   But I'm waiting for OTJ to ship me

01:07:06   a potentially better solution from Etsy

01:07:09   that was not available for shipping in Italy.

01:07:12   For now I'm using this mounting clip called the Deckmate.

01:07:18   And there's gonna be links in the show notes and pictures.

01:07:23   You will see this hub mounted to the back of the Steam Deck

01:07:27   and this short USB-C cable made by Satechi.

01:07:30   It's a flat USB-C cable that connects the Steam Deck

01:07:34   to the hub.

01:07:35   And I provide power to the hub

01:07:38   from any USB-C adapter or battery,

01:07:42   because I have a USB-C to DC converter cable.

01:07:46   The advantage here--

01:07:48   - I'm just so impressed.

01:07:49   I don't know how you do this.

01:07:50   I'm so impressed with you sometimes.

01:07:52   - Lots of research.

01:07:53   - But like that amount of research,

01:07:54   I just don't know if I have the ability to deal with it.

01:07:57   - I love modding things and coming up with solutions.

01:08:02   This way,

01:08:02   it's even better on the Steam Deck OLED,

01:08:06   because like I'm sort of,

01:08:08   before I could tell that I was adding

01:08:11   some weight to the Steam Deck.

01:08:14   But now because the Steam Deck OLED lost 30 grams,

01:08:18   it's even better.

01:08:18   It's much more balanced

01:08:20   and I don't mind playing games like this

01:08:23   with this thing mounted to the back of the console,

01:08:25   especially if I'm lying in bed

01:08:27   and so placing the console on my lap is not a problem.

01:08:30   Because now I get to plug multiple things in the Steam Deck,

01:08:35   including my glasses over USB-C.

01:08:39   And this is why I needed to get this hub,

01:08:42   because I gotta have fast USB data transfer,

01:08:46   not just any generic $30 USB hub.

01:08:50   I gotta provide video out over USB-C.

01:08:53   So this is why I got a USB 4, Thunderbolt 4 hub.

01:08:57   I can plug my glasses and play with my glasses,

01:09:00   as I feel like I'm bothering Sylvia

01:09:02   with a beautiful OLED display.

01:09:05   I can plug in my ethernet monster into this thing.

01:09:09   And I can stream PS5 games or,

01:09:13   and I'm gonna tell you this, Mike,

01:09:14   I can stream over ethernet PC games.

01:09:18   I can stream Cyberpunk 2077 at psycho settings

01:09:23   over my network with Moonlight on the Steam Deck.

01:09:28   I can plug in my audio adapter,

01:09:34   as you can see in the pictures,

01:09:36   there's the PS Link adapter plugged in.

01:09:39   I could also plug it into the top of the hub, I guess,

01:09:44   because there's a USB-A port at the top

01:09:46   that I totally forgot about.

01:09:48   So yeah, this is my teaching deck.

01:09:50   I'm still waiting for John to ship me.

01:09:53   I think he's getting it today, actually,

01:09:55   and then he will ship it to me.

01:09:56   The alternative mounted solution that we found on Etsy,

01:10:00   John has been assisting me in this research stage,

01:10:03   so thank you, John, as always.

01:10:05   But yeah, the Steam Deck for me

01:10:07   has become my ultimate sort of portable machine.

01:10:09   It does everything.

01:10:11   Indie games, streaming PC games from my gaming PC,

01:10:16   gaming PC, which incidentally,

01:10:18   it is an ROG Ally with a mobile eGPU,

01:10:21   but that's a different conversation.

01:10:22   Or I can play with my glasses,

01:10:25   or I can play with the OLED display.

01:10:28   I have options.

01:10:29   And if there's one thing I love in life,

01:10:30   it's having options and flexibility.

01:10:33   I love two things, modding stuff and having options.

01:10:36   And these two things that I love in life

01:10:39   are coming together in the Steam Deck,

01:10:41   which I absolutely adore.

01:10:43   - I'm very intrigued.

01:10:45   I think I'm gonna do it,

01:10:46   'cause I think I can sell my old Steam Deck

01:10:49   to help fund this purchase.

01:10:51   - I sold it in like two days.

01:10:53   Like people want it.

01:10:54   - Okay. - People want the Steam Deck.

01:10:56   So I will recommend it, you know.

01:10:58   - What one do you have?

01:11:00   - Of the OLED one?

01:11:01   - Yeah, do you have the like?

01:11:03   - Don't get, my recommendation,

01:11:05   don't get the one terabyte model,

01:11:08   because it's got the etched display,

01:11:11   like get the mid model, get the 512 gig model,

01:11:15   because it comes with a glossy display.

01:11:17   Now, unless you plan on playing video games

01:11:20   with a light source reflecting above you at all times,

01:11:24   get the glossy one, because it makes the OLED pop even more.

01:11:28   - I'd thought that, I'd figured that the etched one

01:11:32   would maybe make it look a little duller,

01:11:34   like in the way that the Apple one does,

01:11:37   you know, like the Pro Display or whatever.

01:11:39   - Yep, yep.

01:11:41   If you can avoid playing with a light source

01:11:43   directly above the display of the Steam Deck,

01:11:46   get the glossy one, it looks incredible.

01:11:48   - I also don't need that.

01:11:49   Like I have like a big SD, like micro SD card,

01:11:52   which has got a lot of my games on it anyway.

01:11:54   And I would actually be easier

01:11:55   when moving from Steam Deck to Steam Deck, I assume.

01:11:59   Can you just pop an SD card out and put it in?

01:12:01   Will it work?

01:12:02   Like on the, I don't know.

01:12:02   - I didn't do it.

01:12:04   Also, I wanted to store fresh.

01:12:06   I had a lot of plugins on the old Steam Deck,

01:12:09   a lot of like junk.

01:12:10   I was like, you know what?

01:12:11   I'm just gonna wipe it.

01:12:13   I'm just gonna wipe it and re-download everything,

01:12:16   which I did.

01:12:17   And it took like an hour.

01:12:21   Now that I have fiber,

01:12:22   I don't care anymore about these things.

01:12:23   - Well, you have done what the chapter says.

01:12:27   You have sold me.

01:12:28   I am absolutely sold on this now.

01:12:30   'Cause as well, I wanna play the new Cyberpunk.

01:12:35   So maybe I should wait.

01:12:36   'Cause I played the first,

01:12:37   I played Cyberpunk on my Steam Deck completely.

01:12:40   So I wanna do Phantom of Liberty and I guess I should wait.

01:12:44   I bet it would look really, really, really good.

01:12:47   - Yeah, I think it will.

01:12:49   I think it will.

01:12:50   - All right.

01:12:51   Also the white thing, mentioning that.

01:12:53   I didn't really think about that.

01:12:54   I'd forgotten about that,

01:12:55   but like there being a way difference.

01:12:58   But yeah, I feel like with the money I save

01:12:59   from getting my return on the PS Portal

01:13:02   and the money that I would make for selling my Steam Deck,

01:13:04   I could probably fund the entire purchase of it.

01:13:06   - Yeah, for sure.

01:13:08   - And one last thing I wanna ask you about today.

01:13:10   The founders of Workflow that became Shortcuts left Apple.

01:13:15   And they have started a new company

01:13:20   along with Kim Beverett,

01:13:26   who was working at Apple for a long time in various,

01:13:29   I think was probably working with them

01:13:31   at Shortcuts or on the Siri team, I think.

01:13:33   - Yes.

01:13:34   - They have left to form a new company

01:13:37   with the greatest name ever,

01:13:39   Software Applications Incorporated.

01:13:41   - Really good name.

01:13:42   - They have a cool website.

01:13:44   The website is basically, it's just a Mac OS 8 emulation.

01:13:49   And they are working on bringing some form

01:13:51   of AI tools to the desktop.

01:13:54   We spoke about this a little bit on upgrade,

01:13:56   but I actually, if you have anything you wanted to mention

01:13:59   on that specifically, please do.

01:14:01   But I wanted to ask you some questions about Shortcuts.

01:14:03   Did you have anything you wanted to mention on this?

01:14:05   Like, I know you wrote a post about it on Mac stories.

01:14:07   - Yeah, I mean, it's exciting.

01:14:09   I think if there's a team of people

01:14:11   who can do this sort of thing,

01:14:12   like a large language model integrated

01:14:16   with your operating system, I think that's, you know,

01:14:19   these folks, they know how to do it.

01:14:21   - Yep.

01:14:22   Getting computers to do things, like,

01:14:24   - Yeah.

01:14:25   - This is what they do, right?

01:14:26   - This is what they do.

01:14:27   - This is what they've done for a decade,

01:14:28   probably at this point.

01:14:28   - For more than a decade at this point, yeah.

01:14:30   I mean, but I don't have anything else to say

01:14:33   because there's nothing to see or try at this point.

01:14:36   - But my question to you is,

01:14:37   what do you think this means for Shortcuts?

01:14:40   - I don't think it means much

01:14:43   because obviously Shortcuts is continuing at Apple.

01:14:46   And if my theory is right, they are,

01:14:51   I feel like Shortcuts will become a key component

01:14:55   of the new Siri intelligence based

01:14:58   on a large language model.

01:14:59   Like the whole idea of, I have this theory

01:15:01   where the whole idea of like asking the new Siri

01:15:05   to do multiple things for you,

01:15:06   I think it'll be backed by Shortcuts.

01:15:10   I think there's a scenario in which Apple

01:15:12   is taking a large language model,

01:15:14   or maybe they're just gonna,

01:15:15   maybe they're just gonna keep things separate,

01:15:18   but I feel like you will be able,

01:15:21   whether it's presented as a Siri feature

01:15:23   or as a Shortcuts feature,

01:15:25   I think you will be able to build series of actions.

01:15:29   You will be able to build these workflows, these Shortcuts

01:15:32   using natural language in iOS 18.

01:15:35   So I don't think Apple is moving away from Shortcuts.

01:15:37   I think Apple is going even deeper on Shortcuts,

01:15:39   but not the kind of Shortcuts that we know and love.

01:15:43   So will that be a shock for power users?

01:15:47   Most likely.

01:15:48   We'll see, but I don't think Shortcuts

01:15:51   is done for at all at Apple.

01:15:55   - But it will be different, right?

01:15:57   - But it will be different.

01:15:59   To the point where I almost wonder

01:16:01   if there's a scenario in which the current Shortcuts editor,

01:16:06   the drag and drop one, inspired by Automator,

01:16:09   inspired by a long history of automation tools,

01:16:12   I wonder if there's a scenario in which that's referred to

01:16:15   as the legacy editor of Shortcuts at some point.

01:16:19   We'll see.

01:16:20   Because yeah, you could put together Shortcuts

01:16:23   with natural language,

01:16:24   but then you still gotta edit them, right?

01:16:27   You still gotta fine tune them.

01:16:29   We'll see, but I feel like I could see a point

01:16:33   in which Apple says, well, this visual thing

01:16:35   with the actions that you move around,

01:16:37   that's the legacy stuff.

01:16:38   Now our new editor looks like this,

01:16:41   and it's different.

01:16:42   Maybe it's more, I don't know.

01:16:45   But I feel like they will do something

01:16:48   where you start with a sentence and you go from there.

01:16:52   - I mean, really, I do wonder if in the future,

01:16:57   something like Shortcuts is even needed anymore.

01:17:00   Like if something like what software applications

01:17:03   incorporate wants to do,

01:17:04   like if Apple do something like that,

01:17:05   where it's just like you're just telling the computer

01:17:07   to do something, like, do you need Shortcuts?

01:17:10   Like if I could just tell the computer, like, do this,

01:17:13   but that's far into the future, I still think,

01:17:15   like to be reliable.

01:17:17   - So I was thinking about this yesterday

01:17:19   when I was walking the dogs,

01:17:20   because I was listening to you on upgrade.

01:17:23   That's what I do.

01:17:24   And so right now, Shortcuts is needed

01:17:29   because we have these silos, right?

01:17:34   There are the apps that we use.

01:17:37   And so a common sort of language is needed

01:17:42   to make these apps communicate with each other, right?

01:17:45   And so you have Shortcuts and you have the Shortcuts UI

01:17:48   and you have the Intents,

01:17:49   and you have these manual ways to string these automations

01:17:54   together.

01:17:55   And you do it because there's no underlying sort of,

01:18:01   I don't wanna keep referring to it as a language,

01:18:03   but like an underlying common layer,

01:18:07   which should be the intelligence of the computer to say,

01:18:11   I want this to be done in this order,

01:18:15   in these different places.

01:18:17   Like even the idea,

01:18:20   and now I'm projecting multiple years in the future,

01:18:24   but like if this AI stuff really takes off,

01:18:28   it could undermine the whole premise of an app.

01:18:32   So say, project yourself 10 years from now, right?

01:18:37   If you think about it,

01:18:39   you're really using apps as these visual containers of data.

01:18:43   But if you can just ask the computer,

01:18:48   and the computer has this underlying intelligence

01:18:51   that knows your content,

01:18:53   effectively an app is reduced to a visual container.

01:18:59   - It's a waste of time.

01:19:02   - It's a waste of time and it becomes like the app

01:19:05   that we know of today, a data container,

01:19:09   something that you interact with,

01:19:13   could become just a visual, like a theme.

01:19:18   Apps could become themes,

01:19:20   like little skins for your computer's intelligence.

01:19:23   Sort of like back in the day,

01:19:24   you used to install skins for Winamp on your PC,

01:19:28   running Windows XP.

01:19:29   Like that could become the future of apps

01:19:32   if AI takes off and your computer,

01:19:37   like he doesn't care that you're using Fantastical

01:19:39   or things or Safari anymore, right?

01:19:44   I'm projecting multiple years down the road.

01:19:46   But basically what I'm saying is-

01:19:48   - Is it though?

01:19:49   This is the thing that I keep feeling

01:19:50   I can get tripped up on it.

01:19:51   Like everything I think is far away,

01:19:54   it seems to be much closer than it originally appeared to be.

01:19:57   - It's a, thinking this way,

01:19:59   I think is a coping mechanism for us

01:20:02   to make us feel safer about our jobs,

01:20:05   because so much of our identity is tied up.

01:20:07   No, no, but hear me out.

01:20:08   So much of my identity at least is based on,

01:20:11   you know, reviewing apps and thinking of this silos,

01:20:14   like shortcuts.

01:20:15   There's an app here, there's an app there.

01:20:17   And this is how the, like this,

01:20:19   we are living in unprecedented times in terms of like,

01:20:23   the technology that we use is changes right under our feet

01:20:28   and it's scary.

01:20:28   And so we cope with that by saying,

01:20:30   well, now we are projecting, you know,

01:20:32   multiple years down the road will be fine,

01:20:33   but it's actually not multiple years down the road.

01:20:36   But we say it to make us feel better, I think.

01:20:40   - Okay.

01:20:41   - Yeah.

01:20:42   - I don't disagree with you, but it's like,

01:20:43   it's a thing to think about, right?

01:20:48   - It's a thing to think about.

01:20:49   If your computer is powered by an underlying intelligence

01:20:52   that is really intelligent, right?

01:20:54   What even is an app anymore?

01:20:59   Is what I'm asking.

01:21:00   And I don't know.

01:21:02   Like,

01:21:02   fundamentally it comes down to even things like,

01:21:09   why should apps,

01:21:12   why should like things the task manager be separate

01:21:16   from to do is the task manager,

01:21:18   which is separate from OmniFocus, the task manager,

01:21:21   like they're all using three different data sets.

01:21:24   But if what I,

01:21:25   if my computer is like this sort of virtual being,

01:21:30   this intelligence that knows me,

01:21:34   why should I even use like a separate utility anymore?

01:21:37   I'm just gonna tell the computer,

01:21:39   hey, by the way, remind me that I gotta do this.

01:21:40   - Yeah.

01:21:41   - You know, who knows, man?

01:21:44   I don't know.

01:21:45   I don't know.

01:21:46   So what were we even saying?

01:21:47   Oh yeah, sure.

01:21:48   - It sure comes, okay.

01:21:49   - I don't know.

01:21:51   I don't know.

01:21:52   Is it even needed anymore?

01:21:53   It depends because then there's the,

01:21:56   there's the financial aspect of it, right?

01:21:59   Apple makes money off of apps on the app store.

01:22:04   They have this all.

01:22:05   And if you're Apple,

01:22:06   you gotta be thinking about this, right?

01:22:08   You must be thinking about this.

01:22:09   Like, well, if apps become this like thing of the past,

01:22:13   it shakes up an entire industry,

01:22:16   an entire industry of developers, of apps,

01:22:19   of subscriptions, of everything.

01:22:20   And so, you know, entertainment services will be fine.

01:22:24   Netflix will be fine, you know,

01:22:26   but like this idea of like productivity apps and services,

01:22:32   it's very complex.

01:22:35   - Hey Federico,

01:22:36   maybe we're about to learn how much money Apple makes

01:22:38   from productivity apps.

01:22:39   Spoiler alert, not a lot.

01:22:41   Like realistically, it's games, right?

01:22:45   It's games.

01:22:46   - It's games.

01:22:47   - They're not going away

01:22:48   'cause it's a form of entertainment.

01:22:50   So like, you know, like I understand what you're saying.

01:22:53   Like it's gonna change stuff.

01:22:55   From the economical standpoint,

01:22:57   I guess we'll find out like how much is it really?

01:23:01   - But like five years from now, five years from now,

01:23:04   what's stopping Apple from releasing a tool

01:23:07   that is like a Siri version, whatever.

01:23:10   And which is like, and again, hear me out,

01:23:12   and I promise you I'm not on drugs.

01:23:14   I don't do drugs.

01:23:15   I just have these thoughts.

01:23:16   Picture, okay, hypercard,

01:23:23   but with a large language model

01:23:24   in which you are effectively saying,

01:23:27   "Hey computer, I need an app that does this

01:23:31   and looks like this."

01:23:34   And here's the data.

01:23:36   And the interactions should be like this.

01:23:38   Like create software by text or by voice.

01:23:43   And if you can do that,

01:23:45   why would you even go on the App Store

01:23:47   and look for something?

01:23:48   - This isn't wild to me.

01:23:50   Like this, you know, this sounds like what OpenAI

01:23:53   is trying to do with their like custom GPTs.

01:23:55   Like it's this.

01:23:57   So like I could imagine Apple getting into that business,

01:23:59   which is like, we will sell you capabilities

01:24:03   that other people make.

01:24:04   - Yes. - Right?

01:24:04   - Yes.

01:24:05   - So like somebody has built their own custom app

01:24:08   and they have to sell it.

01:24:09   Like, so you could, you know.

01:24:11   Basically like imagine if you,

01:24:13   imagine if there was a shortcut store,

01:24:16   you would be a shortcuts developer, right?

01:24:21   So like, because you, I mean,

01:24:24   you kind of in a roundabout way already are, right?

01:24:27   Like in the sense of like,

01:24:28   you give access to Club Max Stories members.

01:24:33   - Yes.

01:24:33   - Certain shortcuts that are available for them.

01:24:36   But like this would be like.

01:24:37   - I should have called it the shortcut store.

01:24:39   - You should.

01:24:39   There's still time, you know?

01:24:41   But like you could have, would do that.

01:24:44   And so like somebody could do that with a GPT

01:24:48   that they've made and the best ones

01:24:51   will make the most money, I suppose.

01:24:53   - So much of this, I think it depends on the,

01:25:02   Apple as a company that wants to do this

01:25:06   from a product perspective

01:25:08   and Apple not doing this from a financial perspective

01:25:12   because it maybe disrupts the app store too much.

01:25:16   - There's the great question though of like,

01:25:18   well, if somebody makes a phone that does it and it ain't

01:25:22   Apple, is that not a bigger financial risk?

01:25:25   - Yeah, also that.

01:25:28   - Right?

01:25:29   - Also that.

01:25:31   - Hey, I wouldn't want to be making these decisions

01:25:32   right now, I'll tell you that.

01:25:34   - So yeah, best of luck to Ari Conrad and Kim.

01:25:41   - Can't wait to see what they're doing.

01:25:43   Cannot wait to see what they're doing.

01:25:45   If you want to catch the show notes for this week's episode

01:25:49   and read everything we spoke about,

01:25:51   you can look in your podcast app of choice.

01:25:53   It's where it should be.

01:25:54   But if it's not for some reason,

01:25:56   go to relay.fm/connected/479.

01:25:59   I would like to thank our sponsors for this episode.

01:26:02   That is Fitbud, ExpressVPN and Notion.

01:26:05   Thank you if you're a member and support the show.

01:26:07   Don't forget, you can go to giverelay.com

01:26:10   until December 15th and get 20% off an annual plan.

01:26:14   If you want to find Federico online,

01:26:16   he is the editor-in-chief of maxstories.net

01:26:18   and one of the hosts of the Max Stories

01:26:21   connected universe of podcasts.

01:26:23   You can go to maxstories.net to find him.

01:26:26   He is @fertigviticci on Mastodon.

01:26:29   Just do the thing and find him.

01:26:31   I'm sure you can find him.

01:26:32   At some time, he'd be on Threads

01:26:35   and you'd be able to find him there too.

01:26:37   Threads with an F.

01:26:38   That's someone should make that service

01:26:40   for people who cannot say their THs properly.

01:26:43   So it's a very, not European, but I guess English.

01:26:45   But anyway, you can find me online.

01:26:48   I host shows here on relay.fm.

01:26:50   I make products over at cortexbrand.com

01:26:52   and I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E.

01:26:55   Steven, we'll be back next week,

01:26:57   but you can find his work over at 512pixels.net.

01:27:00   I got a preview of a little article

01:27:01   that he's been working on while in his resting bed.

01:27:04   So look forward to reading that over the next few days.

01:27:08   I assume he's going to post it.

01:27:09   It looks like fun stuff over at 512pixels.net.

01:27:12   He's @ismh and please send him things related to feet,

01:27:15   but good stuff.

01:27:16   Not get weird, just send him good stuff.

01:27:19   Things you think he'll like.

01:27:20   How about that?

01:27:21   We'll go with that.

01:27:23   We'll be back.

01:27:24   Well, I'm going to be away again.

01:27:25   This month is weird, all right?

01:27:26   We're all just going to have to accept it.

01:27:28   We're all in and out.

01:27:30   But OTJ, I think, is joining the show next week,

01:27:32   which I'm looking forward to, because John's a good time.

01:27:36   Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Connected.

01:27:38   Until next time, say goodbye, Federico.

01:27:40   - Arrivederci.