Apple Vision Pro: The Future is Here


00:00:00   I am so eager to know what your last few days have been like with the Apple Vision Pro.

00:00:07   So I went out, I got the headset, I came back, set it all up and started to work with it.

00:00:17   And you and I originally, because we have both flown across an ocean to get our hands on one of

00:00:25   these things, we were thinking like, "Ah, you know what we'll do? We'll get our hands on the headsets

00:00:31   and just we'll immediately record like a first impressions episode of Cortex about the headsets."

00:00:36   We're like, "Speed is king. We will go for speed above all else."

00:00:40   Speed is the most important thing for our once monthly podcast. I just gotta do this right now.

00:00:47   And I think after like a couple of hours, I messaged you and I was like, "Hey, Mike,

00:00:55   I just don't know if I'm even going to be able to record our like fast hot take episode."

00:01:03   Because I had this feeling of, "I just cannot put into words what my experience is right now."

00:01:09   And you very graciously were like, "Yeah, yeah, it's no problem. Like we can wait a couple of days."

00:01:15   I was in 100% agreement for the same reason.

00:01:18   Oh, okay, okay.

00:01:19   I wanted to move it because I felt like I didn't know what to say yet with like 24 hours or whatever.

00:01:26   Since then, my experience has been

00:01:28   largely the same of like, "This is really hard to put into words."

00:01:33   And what has happened over the past couple of days is that I realized it was important

00:01:42   to come to America for this for me, not just because it's the only place on earth where you

00:01:48   can get your hands on a headset, but because I ended up combining this with a trip to see

00:01:55   my parents. And so I have also had the experience of not just me trying to feel like,

00:02:03   "What does this headset mean to me?"

00:02:04   But I've also been having the experience of seeing my parents try the headset.

00:02:09   And now my mom is like, she is the tippy top of the tech enthusiast pyramid.

00:02:17   Like she is way up there with just like very interested in technology.

00:02:21   She's about as high of a power user as you can get before you reach the automation stage.

00:02:28   Although, sidebar, she did just make her very first shortcuts all on her own without my help.

00:02:34   And I like could not have been prouder.

00:02:37   If one could put shortcuts on the refrigerator, I would have done it.

00:02:41   I was like, "This is the most amazing thing I've seen."

00:02:44   Just screenshot it and print it out, man.

00:02:47   Never asked me for any help.

00:02:48   She just decided like, "I'm going to figure out how to do this."

00:02:50   It's like, "Ah, mom, that's amazing."

00:02:52   So I'm so happy.

00:02:54   So that's where she is with computer use.

00:02:56   Very, very interested.

00:02:56   And then there's my dad who falls into the category of normal person with computers.

00:03:03   As in the computer is a tool.

00:03:06   He has some things that he wants it to do, and it does those things for him.

00:03:10   And he's not on the enthusiast spectrum.

00:03:13   So between my father, my mom, and me, we go from just like normal user to professional

00:03:22   VR person all within the same household.

00:03:25   That really helps solidify what is going on.

00:03:29   Why is this hard to talk about?

00:03:31   So when I had my mom first try it, it just so happened that she immediately stumbled

00:03:38   into the Haleakala environment where she's on top of a mountain in Hawaii.

00:03:44   And just finding yourself there somewhat unexpectedly after just clicking a couple of buttons,

00:03:50   she found that really shocking and emotionally moving as a person who had never been in that

00:04:00   kind of virtual environment before.

00:04:03   And it was really important for me to see that because it reminded me that unfortunately

00:04:11   no one can be told what VR is.

00:04:15   You just have to see it for yourself.

00:04:18   And it was particularly fascinating with her because she has watched every single video

00:04:25   that Apple has produced about this product.

00:04:28   She has been hearing me talk for years about VR, but absolutely none of that mattered when

00:04:36   she got to experience something for the first time for herself that left her so stunned

00:04:44   she needed the rest of the day just to process that moment as was exactly my experience the

00:04:52   first time I ever tried something like this where you just go, what has happened?

00:04:58   And so in putting together like my thoughts for this show, I realized there's just two

00:05:06   conversations that we can have.

00:05:07   There's a conversation about all of the technical details.

00:05:11   There's a conversation about what works and what doesn't work, the limitations and possibilities.

00:05:17   But all of that sort of doesn't matter because there's an experience and a conversation

00:05:25   that just fundamentally can't be put into words.

00:05:28   And that's what really matters.

00:05:31   So that's like, ah, and it was really just this morning that like walking around and trying

00:05:37   to think about it's like, that's what this is.

00:05:39   My brain is split between these two things.

00:05:42   Like a ton of details that I just keep feeling like, ooh, I should be taking more notes on

00:05:50   all of these details.

00:05:50   These are all of the details that like we should be talking about.

00:05:54   And then there's another part of me which is going, I don't really care about any of

00:05:58   those details because the important parts of this experience are just so good and work

00:06:06   so perfectly and can be so genuinely affecting that it almost feels silly to then talk about

00:06:14   something like, let's discuss the resolution.

00:06:16   So that's how I've been feeling for the past several days.

00:06:20   Yeah, and I obviously see where you're coming from, like, because to take it in a slightly

00:06:25   different direction, this feels like a version one product.

00:06:30   Yes, yes, yeah.

00:06:31   Without a shadow of a doubt, it feels what it is, right?

00:06:34   It feels like a version one product.

00:06:36   There are bugs that clearly shipped.

00:06:40   There are weird interactions that shipped with the idea that it will continue to get

00:06:46   better.

00:06:47   I mean, we're like four months away from probably seeing Vision OS 2 and whatever that's going

00:06:53   to be at WWDC, right, to ship later in the year, right?

00:06:56   I didn't even think of that.

00:06:57   Yeah, yeah.

00:06:58   And this product feels like a better version one to me than the Apple Watch did because

00:07:03   version one Apple Watch was immediately you could see all the problems and those problems

00:07:08   were pretty fundamental, right?

00:07:10   Like it didn't have apps on the device.

00:07:13   All the data and information was coming from the iPhone.

00:07:15   It was incredibly underpowered.

00:07:18   Where the Vision Pro, those fundamental things seem to be taken care of, right?

00:07:23   Like native applications look and work great.

00:07:26   The operating system is very well architected.

00:07:30   There are just like little fringe parts of it that need work.

00:07:34   That is very exciting to me that like the first version of this is as good as it is.

00:07:42   Also, the weirdness of it, the interesting parts of it, and the overall how good the

00:07:48   experience is, is the thing I kind of can't get my head around.

00:07:52   It is equally weird, interesting and exciting that they even put it out.

00:07:58   This is a crazy product for 2024 Apple to make.

00:08:04   And the more you use it, the more you realize that.

00:08:07   Oh, you're just really going for it.

00:08:10   It's like really expensive because it's really high end.

00:08:13   But in doing that means they can do some really weird things.

00:08:16   And like that's the route that they took like to really wow you and impress you.

00:08:20   But then also you open up like the environments menu to choose these places you want to go.

00:08:27   It's how you find Haleakala.

00:08:29   And there are two of them that just say coming soon.

00:08:31   It's like what is happening?

00:08:33   Like this is such a weird product.

00:08:36   But that is what's exciting to me.

00:08:37   Like they are willing to put this one out there, see how it goes.

00:08:43   And like that's what I want them to do.

00:08:45   And it's what they've done.

00:08:46   This is truly one of the most interesting things that I have seen in my career.

00:08:53   I am very confident in saying that this is the single most interesting

00:08:57   technology purchase I have ever made in my life.

00:09:00   I use the word interesting for a reason.

00:09:04   In my world, like things divide into it's like it's interesting

00:09:07   or it's boring.

00:09:08   But interesting doesn't always mean good, right?

00:09:11   Things can be interesting for bad reasons.

00:09:13   Yeah, it's the most interesting technology purchase I've ever made.

00:09:17   And partly that is because it feels like a thing from the future in very many ways.

00:09:23   You know like seeing other people use it.

00:09:26   It is the most futuristic feeling thing to watch somebody else use as a small detail.

00:09:34   That screen on the front when you are using this in an environment with multiple people.

00:09:40   That screen on the front is real key.

00:09:44   The fact that when my father is watching like the virtual tour of a rhinoceros farm

00:09:49   and like he is having like that experience and then from our perspective we're looking at

00:09:56   this kind of kaleidoscope moving lights on his face while that's happening.

00:10:01   It's important that it's there but it is also so future feeling and like oh this looks like

00:10:08   something that should be in a movie.

00:10:09   The aesthetics of it.

00:10:11   But they're not just aesthetics.

00:10:12   They're actually practical and they're useful in that environment.

00:10:16   But that is the most 1.0 thing of the product, right?

00:10:19   That is janky and it doesn't look as good as they wanted it to look or even if they've shown it to look.

00:10:25   But the idea is good.

00:10:27   Like the I believe that idea is good.

00:10:29   Like seeing someone's eyes when they are talking to you is important when they're in one of these products.

00:10:35   But it just needs work.

00:10:38   But that doesn't matter because the idea is there.

00:10:40   Yeah this is exactly what I mean.

00:10:41   Is like I feel my brain split of I can give you a long list of things of like oh this eye stuff doesn't work great, right?

00:10:49   But at the same time I feel like but it doesn't matter at all because it hits the thing that it needs to.

00:10:54   Which is oh I can know when someone's looking or when they're not looking.

00:10:59   Or I feel like they're doing this on purpose that I can tell when they're sort of half looking.

00:11:04   Like I swear it's like it seems like sometimes the eyes are cloudier when I can tell the person is going through a menu.

00:11:09   It's like oh they're not they're like able to see me but they're not actually looking looking at me.

00:11:14   And again yeah the fact that like it's obviously not what was intended or what was wanted from the original demos is not really important.

00:11:24   Like it never really matters in that moment when I'm watching somebody else use the product itself.

00:11:29   It's a bit like in the 1980s when computers were first becoming home use products.

00:11:35   Like individual families could buy a computer.

00:11:38   And at the time they were not intended to be mass consumer devices.

00:11:44   They just couldn't be.

00:11:46   Those old computers would have felt both like the same way.

00:11:50   Incredibly futuristic but also sort of weirdly limited.

00:11:54   Like I just imagine that that's kind of an apt comparison here.

00:11:59   And I've intentionally not wanted to watch or follow like any of the reaction to this.

00:12:04   Like the moment I put in my pre-purchase I was like I'm not going to listen to a single other person talk about this product until I get it in my hands.

00:12:11   Like I wanted to form my own thoughts on this.

00:12:13   But I'm willing to guess that a lot of the conversation around this kind of implicitly or explicitly is talking about it as though it is like a consumer product.

00:12:24   Or kind of like thinking of it in those terms.

00:12:26   And I just don't think that that makes any sense as a way to judge it.

00:12:31   In the same way that you would not judge the first home computers of the 1980s as like mass consumer products.

00:12:38   Like that's not the purpose they're serving.

00:12:40   Obviously I follow it.

00:12:40   I think it's pretty balanced.

00:12:42   I think some people are coming at it from the perspective you're talking about.

00:12:45   But really as a kind of like a warning as such.

00:12:48   Like if you are expecting this to be a consumer it's not that.

00:12:52   Right.

00:12:53   Okay.

00:12:53   And there are a lot of people who are also talking similarly of like this is the future.

00:12:59   Like even Apple is.

00:13:00   So just before it went on sale there was a Vanity Fair article where they spoke to Tim Cook and Greg Joswiak.

00:13:08   And it's the first time an Apple executive has been shown wearing it.

00:13:12   So there's like pictures of Tim wearing it.

00:13:14   And one of the things that Joswiak says is it feels like we've reached into the future and grabbed this product.

00:13:21   You're putting the future on your face.

00:13:23   So like they are going for that idea too.

00:13:25   Right.

00:13:25   That like this product it's not now it's what the future will be.

00:13:32   But we have to start now to achieve that.

00:13:36   And like that has felt that way since we first saw it.

00:13:39   It's felt that way since I first used it.

00:13:41   And I think that it has given on that promise in now it's wider use.

00:13:47   And the first couple of days online you know it felt like he has a lot of jokes.

00:13:52   Haha look at this person on the subway wearing one and that kind of stuff.

00:13:56   That I feel like what I'm seeing anyway is like the conversation is shifting more towards a general enthusiasm for the product and what it can do.

00:14:05   And that is how I'm feeling just in general.

00:14:08   I am a technology enthusiast.

00:14:10   That's how I consider myself.

00:14:11   It's how I've always considered myself.

00:14:12   This product feels like it has the most possible enthusiasm I could give something.

00:14:18   Like that's what I want for this product.

00:14:20   Like I want this to be encouraged.

00:14:23   Like it's so promising and it's so interesting in the right moments in its current form.

00:14:31   And I just hope like weird expectations around it don't cause problems for it as a product going forward.

00:14:37   But yeah it's just like it's so interesting.

00:14:41   So as the person who originally got to try it a while back.

00:14:44   How has it been for you getting your hands on one and being able to like actually use it and not just be walk through a demo?

00:14:54   My biggest concern is that my experience was going to warp my first impression.

00:15:04   That like having this moment that I had nine months ago was going to have like become a legend in my mind.

00:15:15   Yeah yeah yeah.

00:15:16   And that I would be underwhelmed when I used it for the first time.

00:15:21   But the actual great part of it is the demo that I had was so short and it gave me a taste of so few things.

00:15:28   More has come since.

00:15:31   I have had lots of wonderful moments with this over the last few days.

00:15:36   And a lot of that stuff at first was like oh I remember this feeling.

00:15:40   I remember what the apps look like.

00:15:41   I remember opening things.

00:15:42   I remember these gestures.

00:15:44   Yes this is very reminiscent.

00:15:46   But then I was able to start playing around with some of the stuff that's new.

00:15:50   Like a lot of the entertainment stuff.

00:15:52   Something I was really keen on was the Disney+ app.

00:15:58   Because the Disney+ app they have built these environments that you can watch movies in.

00:16:03   Full virtual environments.

00:16:04   And one of them was Avengers Tower.

00:16:07   So I opened the Disney+ app.

00:16:11   I went to the Avengers Tower environment and my mind was blown by it.

00:16:16   Like I'm sitting and looking around and they've put all these easter eggs of all these different movies.

00:16:22   And there's weapons all over the place.

00:16:24   And there's a big Hulkbuster Iron Man suit standing right there.

00:16:28   And I was like oh this is incredible.

00:16:29   I was freaking out.

00:16:30   It was fantastic.

00:16:31   And then I was like alright I want to test what 3D movies look like in this thing.

00:16:37   So I opened up the catalog that they have.

00:16:40   I chose Avengers Endgame.

00:16:41   It was like take me to the fight scene.

00:16:44   And I'm watching the whole fight scene play out.

00:16:47   And honestly it sounds so funny.

00:16:49   It felt like a religious experience for me.

00:16:52   It was in cra...

00:16:53   My mind was blown.

00:16:54   It's so funny I'm sitting in the hotel watching it.

00:16:56   Adina's filming me.

00:16:57   Because I am freaking out.

00:17:01   Like how incredibly detailed the environment looks.

00:17:04   How fantastic the 3D looks.

00:17:06   With this huge screen and the spatial audio stuff flying past my head.

00:17:12   It was in that moment I was like yes.

00:17:15   Like this device has all of the experience that I felt in June.

00:17:21   It's all still out there.

00:17:24   Like this incredible fidelity and the overall experience that they've created.

00:17:31   This like very natural feeling interface.

00:17:33   It kind of bears out when used at large.

00:17:38   Similarly the incredible experiences that are available.

00:17:42   There are still more of them.

00:17:44   And there will continue to be more of them.

00:17:47   Like I've even been turned around on one pretty important part.

00:17:52   That I want to get to a little bit later on.

00:17:54   So like my experience of using the Vision Pro for a few days.

00:17:58   It's like oh yeah this is like everything.

00:18:01   I remembered it being everything I hoped it would be.

00:18:03   Within like being realistic.

00:18:07   I really am like so pleased and so excited.

00:18:12   That it is what I wanted it to be.

00:18:15   I was worried about that same thing for you.

00:18:17   I was thinking like because it's easy to do the thing where you when you're remembering something.

00:18:23   Is to also smooth over in your brain any problems that there were.

00:18:28   And then to extrapolate like the ability to do all of these other things.

00:18:31   I genuinely was thinking like I wonder if Mike is just disappointed in this as a product.

00:18:36   So it's interesting to hear that you still have that experience of like oh no this is great.

00:18:41   Because I was worried for you a little.

00:18:43   But I feel like I need to know more about what you have found.

00:18:50   Like what you have enjoyed.

00:18:52   Like why does this feel like an interesting product to you?

00:18:55   Like what experiences or use cases have you been through in the last few days?

00:18:59   Where you're like oh yeah this is good.

00:19:02   I guess one of the things I want to try to put into words is that this feels to me kind of like

00:19:08   the platonic ideal of what Apple does with products.

00:19:12   Where they do products that are less but better at the same time.

00:19:16   Or they're just focusing on a really narrow aspect of things.

00:19:21   And I do feel like ah I was entirely correct with my feeling when we were watching the first videos of it.

00:19:29   That like they're doing a very interesting thing here.

00:19:32   The way they're handling VR and AR is it's actually a fairly limited subset of things that they are attempting to do.

00:19:42   But they're being really sure to make those things work well.

00:19:50   Like at the time I described it this way like I can see why this is not exactly right.

00:19:53   But I feel like the idea of it is still correct.

00:19:55   That it's like Apple is only trying to do a thing which is putting rectangles somewhere.

00:20:01   Like everything is a variation on like there's a rectangle that's floating in space.

00:20:06   Some of those rectangles contain 3D movies.

00:20:08   Some of those rectangles contain your computer screen.

00:20:10   Some of those rectangles contain widgets.

00:20:13   Some of those rectangles are a holly-ockela.

00:20:16   Like but it's all different versions of that as opposed to trying to create like an entire 3D environment around you.

00:20:21   And I think it was just like it's a genius simplification of what are we trying to do with this.

00:20:28   That again most people will just never even know or think about because they've never had an experience in an environment like this at all.

00:20:35   That's partly why like I wanted to push back the show and wait.

00:20:39   Because in some sense like in my like initial reaction in some way is like ah I can see all the rectangles.

00:20:45   Like I can totally see what they're doing here.

00:20:48   And like I feel like my experience at the beginning was like a very comparative experience.

00:20:53   Of like ah this is like this other thing but over time I sort of like let all that go.

00:21:00   And just accepted like what are they trying to do with this and how are they trying to present things.

00:21:05   And also what I said before but things are sort of both better and worse in some ways.

00:21:14   So it's like oh the the pass-through vision of like you're looking at the world around you.

00:21:18   It's like oh the resolution there is like not quite what I was thinking it might be.

00:21:22   It's like oh it's clearly like I'm looking through a screen or like the way that I'm thinking about it.

00:21:27   It's like I'm looking at the room that's around me.

00:21:29   And it's a bit like I'm sort of wearing very lightly tinted sunglasses that are like a little smudgy.

00:21:35   Is probably the way I would actually describe it.

00:21:37   It doesn't look like I'm looking at the room.

00:21:39   But at the same time the effect is just so good it doesn't really matter.

00:21:45   And it's like a billion times better than anything I've ever seen like this before.

00:21:49   What I found myself doing sometimes is quite legitimately like oh I can really just leave this headset on.

00:21:56   And I'm working in my dad's office in this house and I've been playing with the headset in there.

00:22:01   And it's just it really works.

00:22:04   So like oh okay and I can get up from the desk.

00:22:06   I can go into the main kitchen.

00:22:08   I could make some coffee and talk to my parents and interact with the dog.

00:22:13   And I can do all of this while wearing the headset and it feels surprisingly natural.

00:22:19   Like that's the part that matters.

00:22:22   And I think like it can't be understated what a crazy achievement that is.

00:22:28   Like I mean maybe I should or I shouldn't have been surprised.

00:22:30   But my parents have like a little back porch on the house.

00:22:34   And at one point my dad was out there reading.

00:22:38   And without even really thinking about it like I just went outside to see what he was up to.

00:22:42   And I was like still wearing the headset and didn't even think about it for a moment.

00:22:46   Like oh even outdoors in the sunshine like it was totally fine.

00:22:50   And I could just interact with my dad and then you know like come back inside the house.

00:22:54   And then go back to my desk all without ever taking it off.

00:22:57   That is unbelievable that that can work and feel natural the entire time.

00:23:02   Like shocking.

00:23:04   It's shocking yeah.

00:23:05   And that is like it's such a great example of what we've been talking about so far.

00:23:09   Of like the fact that they were able to get it to be this good on a version one is...

00:23:15   Yeah.

00:23:16   Truly remarkable of an achievement.

00:23:19   That they were able to get it to look as good as it does.

00:23:22   Where to me then this is another thing like this is exactly how I remembered it looking.

00:23:26   And I think I described it as the time as like what it looks like.

00:23:29   Is you're looking at like a camera in low light.

00:23:32   You can see everything but it's a little grainy.

00:23:35   But you can see everything.

00:23:38   It's fine.

00:23:39   Like in a way that I have not experienced with any other headset right.

00:23:43   Like we're coming from our experiences with the Quest Pro.

00:23:46   Where like it feels like I'm just tripping out wearing that thing and trying to use pass-through.

00:23:50   Like I can see but it's not comfortable.

00:23:53   Like I can see if I need to.

00:23:56   But it's not like I'm gonna choose to wear it when I'm not in an environment of some description.

00:24:01   Or not in an app or a game.

00:24:03   But you can do that with this.

00:24:05   Like it is comfortable.

00:24:06   I'll give you a really good example that just happened.

00:24:09   So I wanted to do a test of watching a 3D movie.

00:24:12   So I was watching a movie in like the mountain environment.

00:24:15   So you're like on the snowy plains.

00:24:17   I think it's yeah and it's elk cap in front of you.

00:24:19   It's like a nighttime environment.

00:24:22   It's all dim when I'm watching the movie.

00:24:24   And the way that the system works.

00:24:26   Which again works much better than I would have expected.

00:24:28   It's not perfect.

00:24:29   But when you raise your hand you know you see your actual hand in that environment.

00:24:35   But the effect is more convincing when the lights are lower.

00:24:39   So if you're in like this dim 3D environment in the headset.

00:24:42   You don't notice the artifacts on your hands.

00:24:45   And I had a weird moment of being like physically kinesthetically confused for a moment.

00:24:53   At one point when I was watching the movie.

00:24:56   And sort of moved around and saw my own hands.

00:24:58   It's like I legitimately for a moment like couldn't tell.

00:25:02   Where am I like physically?

00:25:04   Because it looked so real.

00:25:06   It was like a split second of like.

00:25:08   No but I'm not actually watching a movie like in the middle of this snow field.

00:25:12   With this mountain in front of me.

00:25:13   But it was like it was enough to trick my brain for a second.

00:25:16   Into just feeling like oh no I'm really there.

00:25:19   Because it was my own hand.

00:25:22   Whereas like every other time in VR.

00:25:25   I've always said like oh your brain is willing to accept the reality of this world.

00:25:29   But that's a very different feeling of like oh the sequence of polygons is my hand.

00:25:35   And my brain is just cool with that.

00:25:36   Like yeah yeah that's your hand whatever.

00:25:38   It was a different feeling of physical placement in my actual body.

00:25:45   In an environment for a moment.

00:25:46   And I just like I couldn't believe that that illusion could even hold for a couple of seconds.

00:25:51   It was really like I found it very shocking that that happened.

00:25:54   But again it just goes to like they're trying to do something different.

00:25:59   And they're trying to do something that feels very natural.

00:26:02   And they totally sold my brain.

00:26:05   Like I was really in that space in that moment.

00:26:08   For the effect to work under ideal circumstances.

00:26:11   So I'm assuming then that this is like pretty ideal for you.

00:26:15   Because my thought was the thing that will sell you.

00:26:19   Is can you open obsidian in an environment and feel like you're in that environment?

00:26:26   Because I know that that is so key to you.

00:26:29   Like for things we've spoken about.

00:26:31   With and without this headset of like going back to.

00:26:34   Was it Spaceship U?

00:26:35   Yeah Spaceship U right?

00:26:37   Was it Starship U?

00:26:38   Which one was it?

00:26:39   Spaceship U?

00:26:40   Yeah like the idea of tricking your brain in some way for helping you do work.

00:26:46   And this feels like the ultimate brain tricker.

00:26:50   Is that your experience?

00:26:53   Okay let's dispel with these fluffy feelings for a minute.

00:26:57   Yeah.

00:26:57   And let's answer a real practical question.

00:26:59   Can Grey do work in this headset?

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00:29:38   [BEEP]

00:29:39   Yes, so I still have more fluffy things to say about this but you have zeroed in on the

00:29:46   question that has been, I've been like most desperate to answer.

00:29:51   It's this question about the headset has the ability to bring in the screen of your computer

00:29:59   to work on it.

00:30:00   So traveling to America I brought my absolute favorite computer ever like this little MacBook

00:30:05   Air and I wanted to see like okay how does this computer in particular like the greatest

00:30:10   one to travel with work with this headset?

00:30:13   And so you can pull the screen into any of these virtual environments or not just use

00:30:19   it like sitting at my dad's desk and you know just use the keyboard and the mouse sort

00:30:24   of in this virtual space.

00:30:27   Now you're asking a slightly different thing which is not entirely what I care about which

00:30:32   is like does it feel like I'm using my computer on the moon?

00:30:37   That was not my primary concern.

00:30:38   My concern is about the actual computer itself like how does this look?

00:30:47   Can this be a, I was going to say a second monitor but that's not really true, can this

00:30:51   be a single monitor to use?

00:30:54   And the answer is sort of.

00:30:59   So I've tried a few different kinds of tasks using my computer in this space.

00:31:04   First kind of task, spreadsheets.

00:31:07   So going through a bunch of spreadsheets.

00:31:09   Can I have a gigantic screen in front of me to work on like the biggest spreadsheet a

00:31:14   man has ever worked on on the moon?

00:31:17   No, the resolution is just not really there.

00:31:21   It's like numbers are too hard of like there's too many things that look like too many others

00:31:26   if you want it nice and big and to have lots of little rows like it's just not there.

00:31:31   Have you tried the numbers app on Vision Pro?

00:31:34   So I haven't tried the numbers app on Vision Pro.

00:31:36   Because that would be clearer.

00:31:39   I understand why you're saying that but it's like I'm needing to switch back and forth

00:31:42   quickly between like web browsers and the spreadsheets.

00:31:44   It's like how am I actually going to use a thing?

00:31:46   I need to use it on the computer.

00:31:48   I think it's worth trying like because you can have a web browser and you can have numbers

00:31:52   there like you know I would be keen for you to try it at least.

00:31:55   Okay actually let's do like a sidebar sidebar thing.

00:31:57   So also one of the things I did very quickly after was like connecting my Bluetooth keyboard

00:32:02   to the headset and I was like oh I'm going to use this keyboard in this virtual space.

00:32:07   So okay funny thing number one, there's no setting for keyboard layout in the headset

00:32:13   so I can't switch the keyboard over to Dvorak if it's connected directly.

00:32:17   Which is listen if anyone who's on the development team is hearing me speak right now it was

00:32:22   surprising that it wasn't there but it's like of course it wasn't there.

00:32:25   You've got a hundred thousand things to do before you worry about.

00:32:29   The settings on the Vision Pro is like bizarro land because it looks like the settings app

00:32:34   you know but stuff's in different places and it's not all there.

00:32:38   It's like it's very peculiar but again I obviously but it's like just a very strange experience.

00:32:44   It's very strange because yeah the way it looks sort of prompts you to expect it to be like

00:32:50   other things but it's nothing like other things so it's very confusing but yes I may be the

00:32:55   first and only human on earth who's connected a Dvorak layout keyboard to the headset directly.

00:33:01   So like yeah don't worry about it guys like it's not a problem.

00:33:05   I just thought it was funny as a thing that would never have occurred to me.

00:33:08   But the other thing which was a real like oh wow moment like it just really felt like

00:33:13   this is obviously a different computing platform is of course the headset has no concept of like

00:33:20   I need to command tab over to the other app.

00:33:23   It's like command tab uh what are you doing I don't know what you're talking about buddy

00:33:27   because you're going to physically arrange these screens in front of you.

00:33:32   That's what you're gonna do.

00:33:34   There's no command tab.

00:33:35   Just look at it.

00:33:36   Yeah just look at it.

00:33:37   Yeah a lot of my friends have been complaining about the no command tab which is like

00:33:42   not even a thing I thought about because it's like how would that even work?

00:33:46   Like how would that work?

00:33:48   It's gonna like be throwing apps in front of your face?

00:33:50   Here's why it felt that way for me.

00:33:53   It was a moment that made me realize command tab has been such a fundamental way to use

00:34:01   computers for my entire life it was so jarring that nothing happened when I pressed command

00:34:08   tab like I can't even express it.

00:34:10   I would bet they find some thing to do for command tab like if you do it maybe you can

00:34:16   have a central window and it cycles through them just because I think that this is something

00:34:20   that maybe it's like we're not going to do that this is spatial computing you look where

00:34:24   your windows are but I expect they're going to get lots of feedback from people that this

00:34:28   is something that to them is pretty fundamental.

00:34:31   Like spotlight is there right?

00:34:32   Like they kept spotlight and I think just in general as this progresses they will develop

00:34:38   more sophisticated window management tools like there will be new things and maybe what

00:34:44   that keyboard command of command tab does might be different to what you're expecting

00:34:50   it to do but it would do something and I would not be surprised to see them do that but it

00:34:55   was not a surprise to me at all that it was not in there.

00:34:58   And I think your reaction makes more sense also again from the like limited development

00:35:03   time perspective I think it's the correct decision to not even try to do something like

00:35:07   command tab because it feels like hey let's just go with what this thing is trying to

00:35:11   do spatial computing and force people to try to work like this for a while and maybe we

00:35:17   find out like ways we prefer to do things like so don't try to do this like I have a

00:35:21   very clear vision in my head of what I want to have happen when I press command tab on

00:35:25   that headset but it totally makes sense to just not have that as a thing.

00:35:29   The reason I bring it up though is because it does mean it's like okay so yes you can

00:35:35   put windows anywhere that you want to but I feel like that has a very limited use for

00:35:43   me practically because I don't want to be looking around a bunch and this is where the

00:35:49   like the limitation with the actual resolution matters because it's like you're always

00:35:55   doing this trade-off between like size, legibility, smallness, more is in your field of view

00:36:00   but less legible like that's just a fundamental trade-off that currently needs to happen.

00:36:04   But like it was really cool for one of the movies I was testing like it was interesting

00:36:10   and unique that I could do a thing because for sort of like mindless work I'm often

00:36:14   like just like playing a video in the background and on my computer I have to pick

00:36:19   somewhere that like okay which corner of the screen is this video going to steal and render

00:36:26   useless while I'm doing this mindless work.

00:36:28   It was really cool to be able to put that video screen instead above my laptop screen

00:36:35   and so like yeah I've like watched this video a hundred times before I only just need it

00:36:39   in my peripheral vision I don't need it to take up any of the center space so that was

00:36:44   kind of awesome to have the movie above and like angled down at me.

00:36:49   I've liked just grabbing it put it to the side so like I could just glance up at it

00:36:53   but it's not even in my vision and then what I love is the spatial audio it sounds

00:36:57   like it's over there which is so cool how they do that right like I take the thing and

00:37:02   I put it up and to the right and that's where it is like it just sounds like it's

00:37:06   up and to the right I've been enjoying that kind of stuff too it's cool.

00:37:10   I absolutely love the spatial audio stuff like I never want my audio to be spatial

00:37:14   but again it's like it's fine whatever but I do really hate that it's like I don't

00:37:17   want the audio to sound like it's over there like I will never forget you and I when I

00:37:21   went out for a walk in the park once did a phone call in the like the very early days

00:37:25   of spatial audio and the audio effect was that like your voice was coming from my pocket

00:37:31   where my phone was and I was like what the hell is this like I hate this so much it's

00:37:35   just a strange experience of like early buggier days of spatial audio it's like oh no we're

00:37:41   gonna make it sound like you've got a mic in your pocket as you're doing this phone

00:37:44   call like no I don't want that but everything feels like that to me with the spatial audio

00:37:48   stuff okay so all of that is just to say spreadsheets is like the highest density of legible characters

00:37:56   per square inch of screen that a person is going to do and if you are working on a complicated

00:38:02   spreadsheet I just think that the headset is like it's just not going to work for that

00:38:05   for the fundamental size of the characters okay so next task down is something like

00:38:12   research work for a video could I do research work for a video in the headset

00:38:20   this hits the realm of like it's possible to do but I think for again like window management

00:38:28   reasons I'm probably always still going to want to do this on the computer part of that

00:38:33   is simply like oh I'm dealing with a huge number of things and their keyboard management of windows

00:38:40   and tabs is critical like I need to be able to move between places functionally instantly without

00:38:45   having to think about it like the look at a thing and press your fingers together to type like

00:38:50   yes that is great but it is not the same thing as like processing a huge amount of information

00:38:57   and going back and forth between stuff very fast like again right now do I think that that can

00:39:03   work I could do it but I think I would be doing that to try to do it in the headset not doing it

00:39:12   there because it's the optimal thing to do but this gets us to the last category which is what

00:39:19   if I'm just writing a script what if I just open up obsidian I put it in the nihon green writing

00:39:28   mode typewriter style destroy a retina that's what looks the best and if I bump up the text size like

00:39:36   just a little bit does that work and I think that works is this using the mac yes I've loaded the

00:39:43   mac screen into the system so I'm mirroring my mac yeah and I'm just using the obsidian app

00:39:50   and I've got a script open you really should try if you haven't already the obsidian ipad app

00:39:56   natively on the vision pro I don't want to open the can of worms about what seeking surface I'm using

00:40:01   with obsidian again not today the thing about that is and like so I recommend trying to get that to

00:40:07   work it's not this conversation again me I had just decided that I'm never going to try that

00:40:15   again I'm gonna stick with dropbox god damn you mike well so there is no dropbox on vision pro

00:40:21   which is I'm so angry about like I pay you a monthly fee to have my files everywhere you can

00:40:30   just put the ipad app on there and I can use it in the files app I'm so mad about this like very very

00:40:37   upset as a dropbox customer that they have not even done the very basics to make my subscribe

00:40:42   anyway but the thing is what I'm saying about you know bumping up the font size that it it's

00:40:47   crystal clear in the ipad app so if one could make it work I would recommend the reason I'm talking

00:40:53   about the computer screen is just like to me that's the most interesting thing because like

00:40:57   the computer means there's no friction for any of your tools like dropbox right like quickly

00:41:02   accessing a thing like that that's why I'm just I've been thinking of it like the mac thing it's

00:41:06   like an escape hatch yes it's the escape hatch and I want to know how well that works yeah which is

00:41:10   I am so proud of them that they did it right because the vision pro is essentially an ipad

00:41:19   vision os is based on ipad os that was the starting block and they have built it out from there and

00:41:24   there was this funny thing of like this is the like the multi-pad lifestyle this is it because

00:41:29   you yeah like six ipads in front of you right is essentially what you've got each one's running

00:41:34   its own window is like an individual ipad app right like that's like the idea it's so funny

00:41:38   like it's like I take notes for the show and then I often like try to compress them down and it's

00:41:43   like whatever and I tend to use a bunch of notes but the only like real one note line that I

00:41:47   thought was like ah this is the thing is it did dawn on me like oh multi-pad lifestyle we were

00:41:54   like sad that that just didn't work out in the way that we were thinking that it would because

00:41:59   a bunch of like I think like weird things happened with the ipad line for a while and it was like in

00:42:04   limbaland and it did just pop into my head because I kept thinking like boy this headset it feels so

00:42:10   much like an ipad without looking at all like an ipad in many ways and then it did just pop into

00:42:17   my head I was like oh my god this is it this is the multi-pad lifestyle like in a way that we would

00:42:22   never have thought like holy moly like it came back around and it was just very interesting to

00:42:27   realize that with that super important thing that we never are going to get with the ipad I feel

00:42:32   like which is worse comes to worse one of those apps is your mac yes exactly yeah the fact that

00:42:40   they did the thing that it has continuity and universal control that you can use your mac's

00:42:48   keyboard and mouse and control every window in like what is truly one of the most for me like

00:42:55   magical computer experiences that I've had like I cannot fathom how they are doing it right like

00:43:02   how can I be using my mac a physical object and I swipe right and it goes to the window in my

00:43:10   vision pro that is to the right of my head how on earth do they know how to do this like

00:43:16   it's like for me a round of applause to the engineers who worked out that problem because

00:43:22   I just don't know right like how on earth do they know where all those windows are

00:43:30   I can move a mouse between all it's truly incredible that that works I'm glad you had

00:43:36   the same realization uh it's just vindication man we got we got there in the end like the idea of

00:43:42   multiple ipads like that idea of like ipad apps but lots of them is something I don't know it's

00:43:48   going back to like the beginning of the show we've finally gotten it yeah I'll also say it really

00:43:54   feels like vindication because we both took a lot of flack from a ton of people about like that's

00:44:00   the stupidest thing I've ever heard and it's like ah and here it is like it just took a while

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00:46:09   support of cortex and relay fm listen i understand why you're trying to get me to use the ipad app on

00:46:15   the vision pro i get it they all look better i just wanted to do it with my computer because

00:46:21   i'm using dropbox sync and i also didn't want to switch over but i wanted to do it with the

00:46:26   computer so i could just know like if i don't have to change everything else how does this work and

00:46:33   i can do the thing of like i can just stand up it's so weird to look at the actual physical

00:46:40   setup right because it's like oh i just need to stand up and put my bluetooth keyboard on a box

00:46:45   facing nothing and then in the vision headset i can see the laptop screen and work on obsidian

00:46:54   and write on a script it's like boy this works like this totally works and the next time i do

00:47:01   a great cation i am going to try it with taking the headset and not trying to do the whole thing

00:47:08   i'm like i gotta make i've got to make sure that i'm at a place where i can build a jenga tower out

00:47:14   of stuff so i can put my laptop at the top and see the screen so i can paste back and forth it's like

00:47:19   very interesting to think like no i don't need to do that i don't have to try to get more uh space

00:47:26   put like the laptop and the ipad next to each other balanced on top of all these things it's like no

00:47:31   i just need a place where i can put my keyboard at a comfortable height and it can be on a shelf in

00:47:37   the room and it's like it can just do that so i tested it out here and that works and this is why

00:47:44   like this also flows into the stuff that i said before like there's so much that feels like

00:47:49   uh i can talk about all of these limitations like the resolution needs to at least double like

00:47:54   there's all these things that i can want but at the same time the possibility of being able to

00:48:01   use this on a work trip to write unbelievable like that is the thing that i hoped would be possible

00:48:08   and it is and i cannot wait to try it out in an extended environment to see how does this really

00:48:15   work over the space of like being in a place for 10 days and even if at the end of that i discover

00:48:22   like oh maybe there's some reason why i decide i don't want to do this you can still see like yes

00:48:28   but it is coming right maybe not this headset but maybe the next one but like this is now proof of

00:48:35   concept that you can do this thing and getting back to what you were originally asking me

00:48:42   it also means the physical environment that you are in can be less important because you can turn

00:48:50   that environment up and it's just like i feel like i'm somewhere else the ability to stand right in

00:48:56   front of a wall but not feel claustrophobic because in your experience you're looking

00:49:02   through it at joshua tree is amazing when you're talking about the resolution needed to improve do

00:49:10   you mean of using the mac i mean the whole system really yeah i mean the whole system yeah okay

00:49:16   here's the thing i know i'm particularly sensitive to this and for me when apple did that thing

00:49:22   a long time ago now where they had like the retina rollout they were just like we're doubling the

00:49:28   resolution on all of our devices that to me was a really important change that they made like i've

00:49:34   value that so highly and when i see even uh like big computer screens that don't have retina

00:49:42   resolution on them like i don't understand how people can work on it i just feel like

00:49:46   look like that's terrible so i i do feel like i'm unusually resolution sensitive so i feel like my

00:49:53   opinion on this should not be taken as like a general thing and i also understand that we're

00:49:58   talking 4k panels in each eye i want them to be 8k panels boy is that going to be a long time coming

00:50:05   so i'm not expecting this as like a this has got to be their top priority thing i wouldn't be

00:50:10   surprised if it's a very very long time before that happens but yeah on my own personal list

00:50:18   of things that i would want to improve the resolution is one of those things yeah

00:50:22   that's just surprising to me i want a higher resolution for the max screen so that could be

00:50:28   clearer than it is but for everything else like i don't feel it at all but this is everybody has

00:50:36   their as you said they have your own personal like sensitivities to these things but it was the thing

00:50:42   i was the most surprised about if like it's the first headset where i feel like i'm just looking

00:50:47   at a computer screen as opposed to looking at a vr screen yeah because i feel like i can just look

00:50:55   at it and read everything and it's like what looks to me is crystal clear as opposed to a bit muddy

00:51:00   or whatever i mean i i do feel like part of my reasoning for that is also like i can see like

00:51:05   things go blurry when i'm not looking at them i can see them doing the dynamic thing rendering

00:51:11   yeah the foveated rendering of like you're looking here and we've just we like blurred the edges a

00:51:15   little bit because we don't have all the processor to do that i feel like that is a thing where they

00:51:19   are being very very careful right now in how much of the screen they are rendering at one time for

00:51:24   like power and battery i would hope too that that would change because i notice this the most when

00:51:29   i'm looking at my max screen more than anything else like the little blurred edges that it

00:51:33   presents where you're not looking in that exact moment but you can kind of see out your peripherals

00:51:38   and it's more intense than how it is for your actual eyes right because it's what our eyes do

00:51:45   but it's not that blurry and i would like to see that improve too but these are those things where

00:51:50   it's like well i know it will like i know it will like that's what makes this a version one like all

00:51:56   of this stuff should and will get better the thing that i'm thinking about is when you just press the

00:52:02   little button on the headset to bring up the the grid of apps that you're going to pick from

00:52:06   and you swipe back and forth between those couple of screens it just looks so good yeah it looks

00:52:14   like you have these little glass circles floating right in front of your like i don't know if

00:52:20   they've spent more time on that but i feel like that is one of the most convincing and natural

00:52:26   effects in the whole of the headset is just those icons coming up when you are sitting in some space

00:52:31   and moving back and forth between them and i have caught myself doing a behavior that was the same

00:52:37   behavior as when i got my first iphone of like being kind of hypnotized of just sliding back

00:52:44   and forth between the two screens i did this when i got my iphone 4 or whatever it was like i would

00:52:51   just slide back and forth and go like god it looks amazing and i'm doing the same thing in the

00:52:56   headset of like this just looks so good just swiping back and forth between two screens of apps

00:53:04   i think it's an example of what it's capable of and that yeah as time goes on more and more apps

00:53:09   and ui will take on this quality the messages app looks really good but yes yeah notes doesn't look

00:53:17   as good right but there are just like different apps they lend themselves more to this effect

00:53:22   right where like just like notes there's not really so much you can do about it it's white

00:53:25   with black text although i really wish there was a dark mode for apps there isn't that's another one

00:53:31   of these places where i like i went straight into settings like where's dark mode the thing that

00:53:35   really got me about it is it's funny that all of the environments have a dark mode so i was like oh

00:53:41   you can go to uh white sands and you can say i want it in dark mode for the white sands environment

00:53:48   so i was like oh it just led me to think of course there's dark mode somewhere but there isn't i was

00:53:54   like man that is actually high on my list of things that i really feel like they need to do

00:53:59   and i feel like they should do because boy if you are in a dark physical space to open up a notes

00:54:08   app that is like the size of a small house in front of your face that is pure white is that is

00:54:14   a jarring experience i really feel like dark mode should be the default on this device more than any

00:54:21   other device like develop things for dark mode uh yeah i was real surprised at that i was like well

00:54:27   i will never use the notes app in this environment because of that have you set up a persona personas

00:54:34   well i have set up a persona uh-huh i took one look at that thing and i thought i will not

00:54:43   subject anyone to this i have been king of hot takes with personas right like okay i have been

00:54:53   so anti-persona i had such a bad experience and to me it seemed oh yes that's right yeah you had

00:54:59   a particularly bad experience with it it broke dream and i was just like this is stupid this

00:55:02   isn't gonna work i set up my persona i did it a bunch of times it was failing on me a little bit

00:55:08   but i got it set up and overall i gotta say i am so impressed with what they have done it's an

00:55:16   impressive technical demo yeah i'll agree with that the little amount of work that you have to do

00:55:22   to generate something that in most cases looks like i've seen various personas now of course

00:55:29   my friends i've seen some people it's like that is uncannily good and some where it's like what

00:55:36   happened to your face right like it seemed it just differs person to person my persona looks just

00:55:42   like me like it looks to me like what i see when i look in the mirror i have an unfortunate problem

00:55:48   where when i talk my mouth doesn't move there is an issue it seems with beards that they are

00:55:54   trying to work through because when i'm talking i don't think the cameras can clearly see my lips

00:56:00   moving because of my right right yeah i have okay i can see that told that that's the case i have

00:56:07   submitted information to apple through the feedback system this to me again is like this is just a

00:56:12   data problem like they will get better about the detection and the data but i have spent over the

00:56:19   last few days quite a bit of time doing persona facetime calls with my friends who have vision pro

00:56:25   headsets and this is maybe been one of the things i've been most impressed with once you get over

00:56:33   the weird part once you are willing to take a trip down into the valley of uncanny right once

00:56:40   you're you're in there and you've accepted it right it feels to me like the perfect way

00:56:48   to conduct something like facetime in this like you don't see yourself fantastic yeah right yeah

00:56:57   but also you don't have to do anything for the call if you don't want to shower before that

00:57:03   facetime call you ain't got to do it right if you don't want to put makeup on or do your hair you

00:57:07   don't have to because your persona is locked to a moment in time right and i've spent like time with

00:57:16   jason and stephen and fedorico and john and we're just like we're on a facetime call and then

00:57:23   eventually we're just sitting there like poking around working away it feels like a very natural

00:57:28   way to kind of co-work because it's just a person who's just there and you can move them again

00:57:36   wherever you want and if you like spatial audio it sounds really great because they're just kind

00:57:39   of like moving around and i know apple's working on like another version of this called spatial

00:57:44   personas which i expect will make this experience even better like i'm actually quite impressed and

00:57:52   my expectations are so low it has way exceeded them and i i do actually think there's something

00:57:58   to it like i really do like it's gonna get better people will get more used to it some apps will pop

00:58:03   up like zoom has a pretty decent implementation of it right now where it like it puts a different

00:58:08   background behind you so it's like you can be on a zoom call and it looks not too bad they've also

00:58:13   said that they're working on a person-to-person kind of experience basically similar to what we

00:58:21   were getting with horizon work rooms oh okay so like an embodied experience in some it's a bit

00:58:26   vague but they're talking about the idea of two personas being able to be in the same place and

00:58:30   talking to each other in a space right it's like a shared space but it's not just going to be them

00:58:35   working on this so many people will i'm really impressed with it i know that naturally i assume

00:58:41   you wouldn't like it right because of course it's you and everybody knows now you don't want to be

00:58:47   you see our previous conversations on this topic yeah but i think that some of the details of how

00:58:52   they've done it i think they've knocked it out of the park i'm very very impressed with this

00:58:56   we'll have to try to do our our next uh cortex brand call on this yeah like i set up the persona

00:59:02   i took a look at it and i feel like i guess for me when i think about the facetime calls that i'm

00:59:06   doing i just don't have a scenario in which i can imagine doing the call in the headset well but

00:59:12   except the exact one you just mentioned right the next time we have a call although unfortunately

00:59:17   when i'm doing these i have a great time everyone talking to me has a terrible time because it looks

00:59:22   like my mouth's been so shut or something it's it's very weird because you can see that my face

00:59:26   is moving like i'm talking but my lips don't move it's very right okay so we'll hold off on that

00:59:32   then until they unso your mouth but yeah so like again aside from you i'm just thinking like of all

00:59:39   the the facetime calls that i do i just i do not have the use case for this so that that's why i

00:59:46   was like i just don't use this i haven't done a single one of those calls because it's like it's

00:59:50   just that this is never going to happen for me we may have the case for me where this does make

00:59:55   sense i do still wonder about like versus just a call because there isn't that embodied experience

01:00:03   in this but you know i'll have to see how it goes when we actually give it a shot yeah so i agree

01:00:07   it's surprising how much fidelity they get out of just hold it in front of your face and look left

01:00:14   and look right and smile smile at the shield and then you know raise your eyebrows or whatever like

01:00:19   it does look good you know i'm not going to use it for the calls that i'm on but it is impressive

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01:03:16   so i have one more experience in the headset that i just want to talk about because

01:03:23   with a lot of these things i feel like oh i've had like some version of this to try before but one

01:03:31   thing that for me was just really novel and was really quite emotionally shocking was watching

01:03:42   3d video for the first time in the headset it was so i opened up the photos app to be like oh let

01:03:50   me just check this out i'm just looking through things and apple has uh you know their memories

01:03:55   feature right where they're like put together a little collection of photographs for you

01:04:00   and because you're in this headset like you're in an environment and if you've turned the dial all

01:04:06   the way up you've kind of like isolated yourself from the outside world it's very quiet on the moon

01:04:12   it's very reflective in this environment even just regular photos it's almost too emotionally powerful

01:04:24   in this setting that was very surprising it was almost too much to click on a thing about like

01:04:32   fun times in hawaii right and like then it plays you the videos and you're like watching these

01:04:37   photographs and then i remembered oh i shot a i shot one test 3d video to remember to have for

01:04:47   this moment and i was like completely forgotten about this feature in like the excitement of

01:04:52   everything else that was going on so i click over to the tab of like the spatial video

01:04:57   and so this past christmas what i will describe as the dog who moved in with us and just like

01:05:04   basically lives with us now my favorite he was with us yes your favorite he was there for

01:05:10   christmas and we had a guest dog in the house who's much bigger and as as always delightfully happens

01:05:16   with dogs they love to steal each other's bones and so you have this little dog runs off and like

01:05:22   steals the big boy bone and he drags it off literally in front of the hearth to like happily

01:05:27   chew on this bone and i was like oh this is like a perfect moment to take a test video because

01:05:32   they're like oh we've got the objects like he's got the bone which is in the foreground and he's

01:05:37   in front of the fireplace and it's in the background it's like okay i'm just gonna record

01:05:41   a little test video of him chewing on this bone and now of course a video like this has everything

01:05:46   working for it right it's like a cute animal it's christmas right but like it was just

01:05:54   too emotionally powerful watching this for the first time the most simple video it caused such

01:06:06   a feeling of what i can only describe as like anticipatory melancholy that like i just like

01:06:12   i couldn't even this is just too much in biology you talk about things as like a like a super

01:06:18   stimulus to me it's like the perfect example of just sure i could easily talk to you about how

01:06:25   oh obviously the frame rate is low on this thing and the detail isn't great and the 3d separation

01:06:33   isn't perfect and they're having to cheat at the edges with a bunch of fuzzing of the effect

01:06:39   i could talk about all of like the reasons that this is not technically perfect but absolutely

01:06:44   none of them matter for the emotional experience that this could convey and i can now completely

01:06:54   understand some of the comments that i've heard from other people where they said they watched

01:06:59   like a like a demo of some of these spatial videos somebody else's family in spatial video

01:07:04   and being overwhelmed with a feeling that they were watching something that's too private like

01:07:10   i shouldn't be watching this video or like this like put a memory in my head that's not mine

01:07:16   so like this feature is shocking like just shockingly good shocking to experience and just

01:07:26   very very powerful like it takes photos and videos and just turns it up even more and might even just

01:07:36   turn it up too much yeah i agree like i took some spatial videos when we were on vacation i have a

01:07:43   friend who works at apple and they were like you should do this to get ready and i was like okay

01:07:47   i'll give it a go so we were going away and i took a bunch and what i kind of learned for me is

01:07:52   they're much nicer if you're stationary if you're moving it doesn't look very good right now so like

01:07:58   that would be my tip to people but to be honest the biggest experience that i had emotionally was

01:08:04   just looking at standard photos like just scrolling through the photo library and yeah the sense of

01:08:11   nostalgia that it gave to me is not like anything i've experienced before and these were photos i

01:08:18   had taken in the last four days and i'm looking at them and i'm like that was such a good meal we had

01:08:25   you know because there's something about these huge images and it dims the background and it

01:08:30   creates this like really warm feeling and the photos from an iphone just look fantastic at that

01:08:37   size i don't really know how right like this photo that's probably 20 feet large or whatever like i'm

01:08:44   just i was like laying back on the sofa and looking up at it at the ceiling and just like

01:08:48   scrolling through them i was like oh this is so wonderful like this is not a reason to get one

01:08:53   but all of these things like all of the reasons in which you would and like this is another of like

01:08:58   as a photo and video viewing experience it's unbeatable it is not possible to

01:09:06   view and experience photos and memories in a more intense setting than this i feel like even with

01:09:16   the additional days that we gave it's still not enough like i i look mike i completely agree i

01:09:25   had to stop myself from messaging you again where i was like i don't know man should we delay like

01:09:29   i'm glad that we didn't it's the right decision to not like i cut myself off from that but i did have

01:09:34   this feeling of like i still want more time to process this to really i don't think there is an

01:09:40   amount of time that we could have given that really realistically would have changed this

01:09:43   like this is a situation i'm having to face for my work in general right like i recorded upgrade

01:09:51   yesterday i record connected tomorrow and it's the same problem each time like me and jason

01:09:56   were talking over the weekend and he was like i don't know man i just don't know if i can do it

01:10:01   yet he's like at least we'll be informed by you and gray talking and i was like nope we moved it

01:10:06   because we were just struggling like how do we approach this it's so massive and

01:10:14   this seemed to be a thing for like everyone that's had one of these people that had them for reviews

01:10:20   like you've been from like getting them from embargoes of apple like you've been seeing it

01:10:23   and like a lot of creators are producing multiple videos because it's too much to talk about all at

01:10:29   once and it's a slower more gradual thing i've not used this at home my entire experience has

01:10:35   been followed by the idea of being in a hotel room which has 100 made it better right like

01:10:41   i don't want to be sitting and working looking down at my laptop my 13-inch laptop screen

01:10:47   i'm able to instead have a 30-inch screen for my mac and then a bunch of windows all around so like

01:10:53   my experience is colored by that which is positive like way more positive maybe than if i was at home

01:10:59   where i don't need to use the vision pro to get a bigger screen for my mac because i just have one

01:11:05   at my studio right so all of this is just a longer period of time this isn't like all right got a new

01:11:13   iphone it does this it does that it does this this is what we think about it because there's with that

01:11:19   so much context and like how do you use an iphone it's not a thing i need to explain to you right

01:11:24   like what does it look like to look at the slack app on my phone like you know i don't need to tell

01:11:31   you that where i can tell you for example like looking at the slack app on vision pro is really

01:11:34   good and also it has this button if it's an ipad app where you can change it to be landscape or

01:11:39   portrait depending like these are little details that it's just gonna take a much longer period of

01:11:46   time to tease this stuff out and it's not like every episode of every show i'm gonna do for the

01:11:52   next three months will just be like continually reviewing the product but it will just keep

01:11:57   touching back up on it and i mean while we were recording today a friend texted me said

01:12:02   vision os 1.1 is in beta now which i'm happy about they are pushing it forward i'm actually

01:12:08   very pleased about this like they're gonna start fixing and improving stuff because there's like

01:12:12   a bunch of weird stuff like the keyboard the software keyboard which is bad but okay like it

01:12:18   does the job for simple simple things but every time i use it it pops up in front of the text box

01:12:25   that i need to see it's like that's not right is it but like these are the things that just they're

01:12:29   gonna like stuff's gonna get ironed out we're gonna have more experiences with it this is gonna

01:12:35   be a thing that we'll be touching on forever now this is just part of it now this is just part of

01:12:40   the computer experience for us but it's gonna take a longer period of time to continually form

01:12:46   our thoughts on it because it is so massive this is the most sensory overload i've ever experienced

01:12:54   with a computer before where i'm like oh i want to do this thing and i always get distracted

01:12:59   it's similar to you like i want to check out that app i downloaded and i opened that app picker and

01:13:04   i just scroll for a second and i'm looking at them like oh that one looks and then i do something else

01:13:08   like this has been my life for the last four days i just can't settle yet it's all too new too

01:13:15   overwhelming but then also just the context of this not even the device itself the pure context

01:13:22   of what it means to have a computer like this that does the things it does is new in the way they are

01:13:29   doing it like it has experiences right if you want to do a facetime call and like you have like a

01:13:34   persona call like you would a horizon worker thing you can do that you want to play some games there's

01:13:39   some games they're not that great but there's some games like there are things you know but this idea

01:13:44   of spatial computing is a new concept in the way that they are doing it and i still have not set

01:13:54   on it yet and it's just gonna take longer than a week