00:00:00 ◼ ► I am so eager to know what your last few days have been like with the Apple Vision Pro.
00:00:07 ◼ ► So I went out, I got the headset, I came back, set it all up and started to work with it.
00:00:17 ◼ ► And you and I originally, because we have both flown across an ocean to get our hands on one of
00:00:25 ◼ ► these things, we were thinking like, "Ah, you know what we'll do? We'll get our hands on the headsets
00:00:31 ◼ ► and just we'll immediately record like a first impressions episode of Cortex about the headsets."
00:00:40 ◼ ► Speed is the most important thing for our once monthly podcast. I just gotta do this right now.
00:00:55 ◼ ► I just don't know if I'm even going to be able to record our like fast hot take episode."
00:01:03 ◼ ► Because I had this feeling of, "I just cannot put into words what my experience is right now."
00:01:09 ◼ ► And you very graciously were like, "Yeah, yeah, it's no problem. Like we can wait a couple of days."
00:01:19 ◼ ► I wanted to move it because I felt like I didn't know what to say yet with like 24 hours or whatever.
00:01:42 ◼ ► to come to America for this for me, not just because it's the only place on earth where you
00:01:48 ◼ ► can get your hands on a headset, but because I ended up combining this with a trip to see
00:02:21 ◼ ► She's about as high of a power user as you can get before you reach the automation stage.
00:02:28 ◼ ► Although, sidebar, she did just make her very first shortcuts all on her own without my help.
00:03:44 ◼ ► And just finding yourself there somewhat unexpectedly after just clicking a couple of buttons,
00:03:50 ◼ ► she found that really shocking and emotionally moving as a person who had never been in that
00:04:03 ◼ ► And it was really important for me to see that because it reminded me that unfortunately
00:04:18 ◼ ► And it was particularly fascinating with her because she has watched every single video
00:04:28 ◼ ► She has been hearing me talk for years about VR, but absolutely none of that mattered when
00:04:36 ◼ ► she got to experience something for the first time for herself that left her so stunned
00:04:44 ◼ ► she needed the rest of the day just to process that moment as was exactly my experience the
00:05:11 ◼ ► There's a conversation about what works and what doesn't work, the limitations and possibilities.
00:05:17 ◼ ► But all of that sort of doesn't matter because there's an experience and a conversation
00:05:31 ◼ ► So that's like, ah, and it was really just this morning that like walking around and trying
00:05:42 ◼ ► Like a ton of details that I just keep feeling like, ooh, I should be taking more notes on
00:06:06 ◼ ► so perfectly and can be so genuinely affecting that it almost feels silly to then talk about
00:06:20 ◼ ► Yeah, and I obviously see where you're coming from, like, because to take it in a slightly
00:06:47 ◼ ► I mean, we're like four months away from probably seeing Vision OS 2 and whatever that's going
00:06:58 ◼ ► And this product feels like a better version one to me than the Apple Watch did because
00:07:03 ◼ ► version one Apple Watch was immediately you could see all the problems and those problems
00:08:20 ◼ ► But then also you open up like the environments menu to choose these places you want to go.
00:09:34 ◼ ► That screen on the front when you are using this in an environment with multiple people.
00:09:49 ◼ ► and like he is having like that experience and then from our perspective we're looking at
00:10:01 ◼ ► It's important that it's there but it is also so future feeling and like oh this looks like
00:10:19 ◼ ► That is janky and it doesn't look as good as they wanted it to look or even if they've shown it to look.
00:10:29 ◼ ► Like seeing someone's eyes when they are talking to you is important when they're in one of these products.
00:10:41 ◼ ► Is like I feel my brain split of I can give you a long list of things of like oh this eye stuff doesn't work great, right?
00:10:49 ◼ ► But at the same time I feel like but it doesn't matter at all because it hits the thing that it needs to.
00:10:59 ◼ ► Or I feel like they're doing this on purpose that I can tell when they're sort of half looking.
00:11:04 ◼ ► Like I swear it's like it seems like sometimes the eyes are cloudier when I can tell the person is going through a menu.
00:11:09 ◼ ► It's like oh they're not they're like able to see me but they're not actually looking looking at me.
00:11:14 ◼ ► And again yeah the fact that like it's obviously not what was intended or what was wanted from the original demos is not really important.
00:11:24 ◼ ► Like it never really matters in that moment when I'm watching somebody else use the product itself.
00:12:04 ◼ ► Like the moment I put in my pre-purchase I was like I'm not going to listen to a single other person talk about this product until I get it in my hands.
00:12:13 ◼ ► But I'm willing to guess that a lot of the conversation around this kind of implicitly or explicitly is talking about it as though it is like a consumer product.
00:12:31 ◼ ► In the same way that you would not judge the first home computers of the 1980s as like mass consumer products.
00:12:53 ◼ ► And there are a lot of people who are also talking similarly of like this is the future.
00:13:00 ◼ ► So just before it went on sale there was a Vanity Fair article where they spoke to Tim Cook and Greg Joswiak.
00:13:14 ◼ ► And one of the things that Joswiak says is it feels like we've reached into the future and grabbed this product.
00:13:56 ◼ ► That I feel like what I'm seeing anyway is like the conversation is shifting more towards a general enthusiasm for the product and what it can do.
00:14:23 ◼ ► Like it's so promising and it's so interesting in the right moments in its current form.
00:14:31 ◼ ► And I just hope like weird expectations around it don't cause problems for it as a product going forward.
00:14:44 ◼ ► How has it been for you getting your hands on one and being able to like actually use it and not just be walk through a demo?
00:15:04 ◼ ► That like having this moment that I had nine months ago was going to have like become a legend in my mind.
00:15:21 ◼ ► But the actual great part of it is the demo that I had was so short and it gave me a taste of so few things.
00:15:58 ◼ ► Because the Disney+ app they have built these environments that you can watch movies in.
00:16:16 ◼ ► Like I'm sitting and looking around and they've put all these easter eggs of all these different movies.
00:18:17 ◼ ► I was thinking like because it's easy to do the thing where you when you're remembering something.
00:18:31 ◼ ► I genuinely was thinking like I wonder if Mike is just disappointed in this as a product.
00:18:36 ◼ ► So it's interesting to hear that you still have that experience of like oh no this is great.
00:19:02 ◼ ► I guess one of the things I want to try to put into words is that this feels to me kind of like
00:19:21 ◼ ► And I do feel like ah I was entirely correct with my feeling when we were watching the first videos of it.
00:19:32 ◼ ► The way they're handling VR and AR is it's actually a fairly limited subset of things that they are attempting to do.
00:19:55 ◼ ► That it's like Apple is only trying to do a thing which is putting rectangles somewhere.
00:20:16 ◼ ► Like but it's all different versions of that as opposed to trying to create like an entire 3D environment around you.
00:20:21 ◼ ► And I think it was just like it's a genius simplification of what are we trying to do with this.
00:20:28 ◼ ► That again most people will just never even know or think about because they've never had an experience in an environment like this at all.
00:20:39 ◼ ► Because in some sense like in my like initial reaction in some way is like ah I can see all the rectangles.
00:20:48 ◼ ► And like I feel like my experience at the beginning was like a very comparative experience.
00:21:00 ◼ ► And just accepted like what are they trying to do with this and how are they trying to present things.
00:21:14 ◼ ► So it's like oh the the pass-through vision of like you're looking at the world around you.
00:21:22 ◼ ► It's like oh it's clearly like I'm looking through a screen or like the way that I'm thinking about it.
00:21:29 ◼ ► And it's a bit like I'm sort of wearing very lightly tinted sunglasses that are like a little smudgy.
00:21:49 ◼ ► What I found myself doing sometimes is quite legitimately like oh I can really just leave this headset on.
00:21:56 ◼ ► And I'm working in my dad's office in this house and I've been playing with the headset in there.
00:22:38 ◼ ► And without even really thinking about it like I just went outside to see what he was up to.
00:22:50 ◼ ► And I could just interact with my dad and then you know like come back inside the house.
00:23:22 ◼ ► Where to me then this is another thing like this is exactly how I remembered it looking.
00:23:46 ◼ ► Where like it feels like I'm just tripping out wearing that thing and trying to use pass-through.
00:23:56 ◼ ► But it's not like I'm gonna choose to wear it when I'm not in an environment of some description.
00:24:45 ◼ ► And I had a weird moment of being like physically kinesthetically confused for a moment.
00:25:46 ◼ ► And I just like I couldn't believe that that illusion could even hold for a couple of seconds.
00:27:08 ◼ ► When you're looking to change your fitness level, it can be hard to know where to get started.
00:27:42 ◼ ► Fitbod will track your muscle recovery so you can avoid burnout and keep up your momentum.
00:27:51 ◼ ► Fitbod have analysed billions of data points and they've been fine tuned by certified personal
00:27:57 ◼ ► You can be sure that you're learning the new movements that you're going to be doing the
00:28:12 ◼ ► So overworking some muscles while underworking others can negatively impact your results.
00:28:32 ◼ ► You can stay informed with Fitbod's progress tracking charts, weekly reports and sharing
00:28:37 ◼ ► This will let you keep track of your achievements and personal bests while sharing them with
00:28:42 ◼ ► Fitbod also seamlessly integrates with your Apple Watch, your Wear OS smartwatch and apps
00:28:53 ◼ ► I came out to New York and what I love about Fitbod is I can use it wherever I am because
00:28:58 ◼ ► I can switch to bodyweight workouts, maybe I've got some gym equipment and I can tailor
00:29:13 ◼ ► Fitbod is just $12.99 a month or $79.99 a year but you can get a huge 25% off your membership
00:29:39 ◼ ► Yes, so I still have more fluffy things to say about this but you have zeroed in on the
00:29:51 ◼ ► It's this question about the headset has the ability to bring in the screen of your computer
00:30:00 ◼ ► So traveling to America I brought my absolute favorite computer ever like this little MacBook
00:30:05 ◼ ► Air and I wanted to see like okay how does this computer in particular like the greatest
00:30:27 ◼ ► Now you're asking a slightly different thing which is not entirely what I care about which
00:30:47 ◼ ► Can this be a, I was going to say a second monitor but that's not really true, can this
00:31:21 ◼ ► It's like numbers are too hard of like there's too many things that look like too many others
00:31:48 ◼ ► I think it's worth trying like because you can have a web browser and you can have numbers
00:31:57 ◼ ► So also one of the things I did very quickly after was like connecting my Bluetooth keyboard
00:32:17 ◼ ► Which is listen if anyone who's on the development team is hearing me speak right now it was
00:32:29 ◼ ► The settings on the Vision Pro is like bizarro land because it looks like the settings app
00:32:38 ◼ ► It's like it's very peculiar but again I obviously but it's like just a very strange experience.
00:32:44 ◼ ► It's very strange because yeah the way it looks sort of prompts you to expect it to be like
00:32:50 ◼ ► other things but it's nothing like other things so it's very confusing but yes I may be the
00:32:55 ◼ ► first and only human on earth who's connected a Dvorak layout keyboard to the headset directly.
00:33:13 ◼ ► this is obviously a different computing platform is of course the headset has no concept of like
00:33:23 ◼ ► It's like command tab uh what are you doing I don't know what you're talking about buddy
00:33:53 ◼ ► It was a moment that made me realize command tab has been such a fundamental way to use
00:34:01 ◼ ► computers for my entire life it was so jarring that nothing happened when I pressed command
00:34:16 ◼ ► have a central window and it cycles through them just because I think that this is something
00:34:20 ◼ ► that maybe it's like we're not going to do that this is spatial computing you look where
00:34:24 ◼ ► your windows are but I expect they're going to get lots of feedback from people that this
00:34:32 ◼ ► Like they kept spotlight and I think just in general as this progresses they will develop
00:34:38 ◼ ► more sophisticated window management tools like there will be new things and maybe what
00:34:50 ◼ ► it to do but it would do something and I would not be surprised to see them do that but it
00:34:58 ◼ ► And I think your reaction makes more sense also again from the like limited development
00:35:03 ◼ ► time perspective I think it's the correct decision to not even try to do something like
00:35:11 ◼ ► do spatial computing and force people to try to work like this for a while and maybe we
00:35:55 ◼ ► doing this trade-off between like size, legibility, smallness, more is in your field of view
00:36:00 ◼ ► but less legible like that's just a fundamental trade-off that currently needs to happen.
00:36:04 ◼ ► But like it was really cool for one of the movies I was testing like it was interesting
00:36:19 ◼ ► somewhere that like okay which corner of the screen is this video going to steal and render
00:36:35 ◼ ► and so like yeah I've like watched this video a hundred times before I only just need it
00:37:25 ◼ ► of spatial audio and the audio effect was that like your voice was coming from my pocket
00:37:35 ◼ ► just a strange experience of like early buggier days of spatial audio it's like oh no we're
00:37:44 ◼ ► call like no I don't want that but everything feels like that to me with the spatial audio
00:37:48 ◼ ► stuff okay so all of that is just to say spreadsheets is like the highest density of legible characters
00:37:56 ◼ ► per square inch of screen that a person is going to do and if you are working on a complicated
00:38:20 ◼ ► this hits the realm of like it's possible to do but I think for again like window management
00:38:28 ◼ ► reasons I'm probably always still going to want to do this on the computer part of that
00:38:33 ◼ ► is simply like oh I'm dealing with a huge number of things and their keyboard management of windows
00:38:40 ◼ ► and tabs is critical like I need to be able to move between places functionally instantly without
00:38:45 ◼ ► having to think about it like the look at a thing and press your fingers together to type like
00:38:50 ◼ ► yes that is great but it is not the same thing as like processing a huge amount of information
00:38:57 ◼ ► and going back and forth between stuff very fast like again right now do I think that that can
00:39:03 ◼ ► work I could do it but I think I would be doing that to try to do it in the headset not doing it
00:39:12 ◼ ► there because it's the optimal thing to do but this gets us to the last category which is what
00:39:19 ◼ ► if I'm just writing a script what if I just open up obsidian I put it in the nihon green writing
00:39:28 ◼ ► mode typewriter style destroy a retina that's what looks the best and if I bump up the text size like
00:39:36 ◼ ► just a little bit does that work and I think that works is this using the mac yes I've loaded the
00:39:43 ◼ ► mac screen into the system so I'm mirroring my mac yeah and I'm just using the obsidian app
00:39:50 ◼ ► and I've got a script open you really should try if you haven't already the obsidian ipad app
00:39:56 ◼ ► natively on the vision pro I don't want to open the can of worms about what seeking surface I'm using
00:40:01 ◼ ► with obsidian again not today the thing about that is and like so I recommend trying to get that to
00:40:07 ◼ ► work it's not this conversation again me I had just decided that I'm never going to try that
00:40:15 ◼ ► again I'm gonna stick with dropbox god damn you mike well so there is no dropbox on vision pro
00:40:21 ◼ ► which is I'm so angry about like I pay you a monthly fee to have my files everywhere you can
00:40:30 ◼ ► just put the ipad app on there and I can use it in the files app I'm so mad about this like very very
00:40:37 ◼ ► upset as a dropbox customer that they have not even done the very basics to make my subscribe
00:40:42 ◼ ► anyway but the thing is what I'm saying about you know bumping up the font size that it it's
00:40:47 ◼ ► crystal clear in the ipad app so if one could make it work I would recommend the reason I'm talking
00:40:53 ◼ ► about the computer screen is just like to me that's the most interesting thing because like
00:40:57 ◼ ► the computer means there's no friction for any of your tools like dropbox right like quickly
00:41:02 ◼ ► accessing a thing like that that's why I'm just I've been thinking of it like the mac thing it's
00:41:06 ◼ ► like an escape hatch yes it's the escape hatch and I want to know how well that works yeah which is
00:41:10 ◼ ► I am so proud of them that they did it right because the vision pro is essentially an ipad
00:41:19 ◼ ► vision os is based on ipad os that was the starting block and they have built it out from there and
00:41:24 ◼ ► there was this funny thing of like this is the like the multi-pad lifestyle this is it because
00:41:29 ◼ ► you yeah like six ipads in front of you right is essentially what you've got each one's running
00:41:34 ◼ ► its own window is like an individual ipad app right like that's like the idea it's so funny
00:41:38 ◼ ► like it's like I take notes for the show and then I often like try to compress them down and it's
00:41:43 ◼ ► like whatever and I tend to use a bunch of notes but the only like real one note line that I
00:41:47 ◼ ► thought was like ah this is the thing is it did dawn on me like oh multi-pad lifestyle we were
00:41:54 ◼ ► like sad that that just didn't work out in the way that we were thinking that it would because
00:41:59 ◼ ► a bunch of like I think like weird things happened with the ipad line for a while and it was like in
00:42:04 ◼ ► limbaland and it did just pop into my head because I kept thinking like boy this headset it feels so
00:42:10 ◼ ► much like an ipad without looking at all like an ipad in many ways and then it did just pop into
00:42:17 ◼ ► my head I was like oh my god this is it this is the multi-pad lifestyle like in a way that we would
00:42:22 ◼ ► never have thought like holy moly like it came back around and it was just very interesting to
00:42:27 ◼ ► realize that with that super important thing that we never are going to get with the ipad I feel
00:42:32 ◼ ► like which is worse comes to worse one of those apps is your mac yes exactly yeah the fact that
00:42:40 ◼ ► they did the thing that it has continuity and universal control that you can use your mac's
00:42:48 ◼ ► keyboard and mouse and control every window in like what is truly one of the most for me like
00:42:55 ◼ ► magical computer experiences that I've had like I cannot fathom how they are doing it right like
00:43:02 ◼ ► how can I be using my mac a physical object and I swipe right and it goes to the window in my
00:43:10 ◼ ► vision pro that is to the right of my head how on earth do they know how to do this like
00:43:16 ◼ ► it's like for me a round of applause to the engineers who worked out that problem because
00:43:36 ◼ ► the same realization uh it's just vindication man we got we got there in the end like the idea of
00:43:42 ◼ ► multiple ipads like that idea of like ipad apps but lots of them is something I don't know it's
00:43:48 ◼ ► going back to like the beginning of the show we've finally gotten it yeah I'll also say it really
00:43:54 ◼ ► feels like vindication because we both took a lot of flack from a ton of people about like that's
00:44:00 ◼ ► the stupidest thing I've ever heard and it's like ah and here it is like it just took a while
00:44:04 ◼ ► this episode is brought to you by Squarespace the all-in-one platform for building your brand and
00:44:10 ◼ ► growing your business online with Squarespace you can stand out from the crowd of a beautiful
00:44:15 ◼ ► website engage with your audience and sell your products services or the content that you create
00:44:20 ◼ ► Squarespace has everything you need all in one place it's super easy to get started with fluid
00:44:26 ◼ ► engine Squarespace's next generation website design system it lets you unlock your creativity
00:44:31 ◼ ► more easily than ever before you get started with a beautiful best in class professionally designed
00:44:36 ◼ ► website template but you can customize every design detail with a reimagined drag and drop
00:44:41 ◼ ► technology that works on desktop or mobile you can stretch your imagination online with fluid engine
00:44:47 ◼ ► it is built in and ready to go on any new Squarespace site speaking of which what about
00:44:52 ◼ ► an online store you can sell your products physical or digital they have all of the tools
00:44:57 ◼ ► that you need to start selling online it's all built in and ready to go including awesome payment
00:45:02 ◼ ► options you can make checkout seamless for your customers with simple but powerful payment tools
00:45:07 ◼ ► you can accept credit cards paypal and apple pay you can even offer customers the option to buy
00:45:12 ◼ ► now and pay later with afterpay and clear pay i love Squarespace i've been using them for 15
00:45:18 ◼ ► years for various projects when i have an idea and i want to share it with the world i want to get it
00:45:23 ◼ ► out there as fast as i can so i can iterate on it build on it and make it a thing but you need a
00:45:28 ◼ ► website that's where Squarespace comes in it's so easy to get started it's so easy to also get it to
00:45:33 ◼ ► look and feel exactly how you want of everything you need all in one place and you can get it out
00:45:38 ◼ ► to the world this is great for you maybe this is great for friends family businesses in your life
00:45:43 ◼ ► that need a bit of help getting a website set up Squarespace is the place to go go to squarespace.com/cortex
00:45:49 ◼ ► and you can sign up for a free trial you can build your entire website and then when you're ready to
00:45:53 ◼ ► launch it use the code cortex and you will save 10% of your first purchase of a website or domain
00:45:59 ◼ ► that is squarespace.com/cortex and the code cortex when you decide to sign up and you'll get 10% of
00:46:05 ◼ ► your first purchase and show your support for the show our thanks to Squarespace for their continued
00:46:09 ◼ ► support of cortex and relay fm listen i understand why you're trying to get me to use the ipad app on
00:46:15 ◼ ► the vision pro i get it they all look better i just wanted to do it with my computer because
00:46:21 ◼ ► i'm using dropbox sync and i also didn't want to switch over but i wanted to do it with the
00:46:26 ◼ ► computer so i could just know like if i don't have to change everything else how does this work and
00:46:33 ◼ ► i can do the thing of like i can just stand up it's so weird to look at the actual physical
00:46:40 ◼ ► setup right because it's like oh i just need to stand up and put my bluetooth keyboard on a box
00:46:45 ◼ ► facing nothing and then in the vision headset i can see the laptop screen and work on obsidian
00:46:54 ◼ ► and write on a script it's like boy this works like this totally works and the next time i do
00:47:01 ◼ ► a great cation i am going to try it with taking the headset and not trying to do the whole thing
00:47:08 ◼ ► i'm like i gotta make i've got to make sure that i'm at a place where i can build a jenga tower out
00:47:14 ◼ ► of stuff so i can put my laptop at the top and see the screen so i can paste back and forth it's like
00:47:19 ◼ ► very interesting to think like no i don't need to do that i don't have to try to get more uh space
00:47:26 ◼ ► put like the laptop and the ipad next to each other balanced on top of all these things it's like no
00:47:31 ◼ ► i just need a place where i can put my keyboard at a comfortable height and it can be on a shelf in
00:47:37 ◼ ► the room and it's like it can just do that so i tested it out here and that works and this is why
00:47:44 ◼ ► like this also flows into the stuff that i said before like there's so much that feels like
00:47:49 ◼ ► uh i can talk about all of these limitations like the resolution needs to at least double like
00:47:54 ◼ ► there's all these things that i can want but at the same time the possibility of being able to
00:48:01 ◼ ► use this on a work trip to write unbelievable like that is the thing that i hoped would be possible
00:48:08 ◼ ► and it is and i cannot wait to try it out in an extended environment to see how does this really
00:48:15 ◼ ► work over the space of like being in a place for 10 days and even if at the end of that i discover
00:48:22 ◼ ► like oh maybe there's some reason why i decide i don't want to do this you can still see like yes
00:48:28 ◼ ► but it is coming right maybe not this headset but maybe the next one but like this is now proof of
00:48:35 ◼ ► concept that you can do this thing and getting back to what you were originally asking me
00:48:42 ◼ ► it also means the physical environment that you are in can be less important because you can turn
00:48:50 ◼ ► that environment up and it's just like i feel like i'm somewhere else the ability to stand right in
00:49:02 ◼ ► through it at joshua tree is amazing when you're talking about the resolution needed to improve do
00:49:10 ◼ ► you mean of using the mac i mean the whole system really yeah i mean the whole system yeah okay
00:49:16 ◼ ► here's the thing i know i'm particularly sensitive to this and for me when apple did that thing
00:49:22 ◼ ► a long time ago now where they had like the retina rollout they were just like we're doubling the
00:49:28 ◼ ► resolution on all of our devices that to me was a really important change that they made like i've
00:49:34 ◼ ► value that so highly and when i see even uh like big computer screens that don't have retina
00:49:46 ◼ ► look like that's terrible so i i do feel like i'm unusually resolution sensitive so i feel like my
00:49:53 ◼ ► opinion on this should not be taken as like a general thing and i also understand that we're
00:49:58 ◼ ► talking 4k panels in each eye i want them to be 8k panels boy is that going to be a long time coming
00:50:05 ◼ ► so i'm not expecting this as like a this has got to be their top priority thing i wouldn't be
00:50:10 ◼ ► surprised if it's a very very long time before that happens but yeah on my own personal list
00:50:22 ◼ ► that's just surprising to me i want a higher resolution for the max screen so that could be
00:50:28 ◼ ► clearer than it is but for everything else like i don't feel it at all but this is everybody has
00:50:36 ◼ ► their as you said they have your own personal like sensitivities to these things but it was the thing
00:50:42 ◼ ► i was the most surprised about if like it's the first headset where i feel like i'm just looking
00:50:47 ◼ ► at a computer screen as opposed to looking at a vr screen yeah because i feel like i can just look
00:50:55 ◼ ► at it and read everything and it's like what looks to me is crystal clear as opposed to a bit muddy
00:51:00 ◼ ► or whatever i mean i i do feel like part of my reasoning for that is also like i can see like
00:51:05 ◼ ► things go blurry when i'm not looking at them i can see them doing the dynamic thing rendering
00:51:11 ◼ ► yeah the foveated rendering of like you're looking here and we've just we like blurred the edges a
00:51:15 ◼ ► little bit because we don't have all the processor to do that i feel like that is a thing where they
00:51:19 ◼ ► are being very very careful right now in how much of the screen they are rendering at one time for
00:51:24 ◼ ► like power and battery i would hope too that that would change because i notice this the most when
00:51:29 ◼ ► i'm looking at my max screen more than anything else like the little blurred edges that it
00:51:33 ◼ ► presents where you're not looking in that exact moment but you can kind of see out your peripherals
00:51:38 ◼ ► and it's more intense than how it is for your actual eyes right because it's what our eyes do
00:51:45 ◼ ► but it's not that blurry and i would like to see that improve too but these are those things where
00:51:50 ◼ ► it's like well i know it will like i know it will like that's what makes this a version one like all
00:51:56 ◼ ► of this stuff should and will get better the thing that i'm thinking about is when you just press the
00:52:02 ◼ ► little button on the headset to bring up the the grid of apps that you're going to pick from
00:52:06 ◼ ► and you swipe back and forth between those couple of screens it just looks so good yeah it looks
00:52:14 ◼ ► like you have these little glass circles floating right in front of your like i don't know if
00:52:20 ◼ ► they've spent more time on that but i feel like that is one of the most convincing and natural
00:52:26 ◼ ► effects in the whole of the headset is just those icons coming up when you are sitting in some space
00:52:31 ◼ ► and moving back and forth between them and i have caught myself doing a behavior that was the same
00:52:37 ◼ ► behavior as when i got my first iphone of like being kind of hypnotized of just sliding back
00:52:44 ◼ ► and forth between the two screens i did this when i got my iphone 4 or whatever it was like i would
00:52:51 ◼ ► just slide back and forth and go like god it looks amazing and i'm doing the same thing in the
00:52:56 ◼ ► headset of like this just looks so good just swiping back and forth between two screens of apps
00:53:04 ◼ ► i think it's an example of what it's capable of and that yeah as time goes on more and more apps
00:53:09 ◼ ► and ui will take on this quality the messages app looks really good but yes yeah notes doesn't look
00:53:17 ◼ ► as good right but there are just like different apps they lend themselves more to this effect
00:53:22 ◼ ► right where like just like notes there's not really so much you can do about it it's white
00:53:25 ◼ ► with black text although i really wish there was a dark mode for apps there isn't that's another one
00:53:31 ◼ ► of these places where i like i went straight into settings like where's dark mode the thing that
00:53:35 ◼ ► really got me about it is it's funny that all of the environments have a dark mode so i was like oh
00:53:41 ◼ ► you can go to uh white sands and you can say i want it in dark mode for the white sands environment
00:53:48 ◼ ► so i was like oh it just led me to think of course there's dark mode somewhere but there isn't i was
00:53:54 ◼ ► like man that is actually high on my list of things that i really feel like they need to do
00:53:59 ◼ ► and i feel like they should do because boy if you are in a dark physical space to open up a notes
00:54:08 ◼ ► app that is like the size of a small house in front of your face that is pure white is that is
00:54:14 ◼ ► a jarring experience i really feel like dark mode should be the default on this device more than any
00:54:21 ◼ ► other device like develop things for dark mode uh yeah i was real surprised at that i was like well
00:54:27 ◼ ► i will never use the notes app in this environment because of that have you set up a persona personas
00:54:34 ◼ ► well i have set up a persona uh-huh i took one look at that thing and i thought i will not
00:54:43 ◼ ► subject anyone to this i have been king of hot takes with personas right like okay i have been
00:54:53 ◼ ► so anti-persona i had such a bad experience and to me it seemed oh yes that's right yeah you had
00:54:59 ◼ ► a particularly bad experience with it it broke dream and i was just like this is stupid this
00:55:02 ◼ ► isn't gonna work i set up my persona i did it a bunch of times it was failing on me a little bit
00:55:08 ◼ ► but i got it set up and overall i gotta say i am so impressed with what they have done it's an
00:55:16 ◼ ► impressive technical demo yeah i'll agree with that the little amount of work that you have to do
00:55:22 ◼ ► to generate something that in most cases looks like i've seen various personas now of course
00:55:29 ◼ ► my friends i've seen some people it's like that is uncannily good and some where it's like what
00:55:36 ◼ ► happened to your face right like it seemed it just differs person to person my persona looks just
00:55:42 ◼ ► like me like it looks to me like what i see when i look in the mirror i have an unfortunate problem
00:55:48 ◼ ► where when i talk my mouth doesn't move there is an issue it seems with beards that they are
00:55:54 ◼ ► trying to work through because when i'm talking i don't think the cameras can clearly see my lips
00:56:00 ◼ ► moving because of my right right yeah i have okay i can see that told that that's the case i have
00:56:07 ◼ ► submitted information to apple through the feedback system this to me again is like this is just a
00:56:12 ◼ ► data problem like they will get better about the detection and the data but i have spent over the
00:56:19 ◼ ► last few days quite a bit of time doing persona facetime calls with my friends who have vision pro
00:56:25 ◼ ► headsets and this is maybe been one of the things i've been most impressed with once you get over
00:56:33 ◼ ► the weird part once you are willing to take a trip down into the valley of uncanny right once
00:56:40 ◼ ► you're you're in there and you've accepted it right it feels to me like the perfect way
00:56:48 ◼ ► to conduct something like facetime in this like you don't see yourself fantastic yeah right yeah
00:56:57 ◼ ► but also you don't have to do anything for the call if you don't want to shower before that
00:57:03 ◼ ► facetime call you ain't got to do it right if you don't want to put makeup on or do your hair you
00:57:07 ◼ ► don't have to because your persona is locked to a moment in time right and i've spent like time with
00:57:16 ◼ ► jason and stephen and fedorico and john and we're just like we're on a facetime call and then
00:57:23 ◼ ► eventually we're just sitting there like poking around working away it feels like a very natural
00:57:28 ◼ ► way to kind of co-work because it's just a person who's just there and you can move them again
00:57:36 ◼ ► wherever you want and if you like spatial audio it sounds really great because they're just kind
00:57:39 ◼ ► of like moving around and i know apple's working on like another version of this called spatial
00:57:44 ◼ ► personas which i expect will make this experience even better like i'm actually quite impressed and
00:57:52 ◼ ► my expectations are so low it has way exceeded them and i i do actually think there's something
00:57:58 ◼ ► to it like i really do like it's gonna get better people will get more used to it some apps will pop
00:58:03 ◼ ► up like zoom has a pretty decent implementation of it right now where it like it puts a different
00:58:08 ◼ ► background behind you so it's like you can be on a zoom call and it looks not too bad they've also
00:58:13 ◼ ► said that they're working on a person-to-person kind of experience basically similar to what we
00:58:21 ◼ ► were getting with horizon work rooms oh okay so like an embodied experience in some it's a bit
00:58:26 ◼ ► vague but they're talking about the idea of two personas being able to be in the same place and
00:58:30 ◼ ► talking to each other in a space right it's like a shared space but it's not just going to be them
00:58:35 ◼ ► working on this so many people will i'm really impressed with it i know that naturally i assume
00:58:41 ◼ ► you wouldn't like it right because of course it's you and everybody knows now you don't want to be
00:58:47 ◼ ► you see our previous conversations on this topic yeah but i think that some of the details of how
00:58:52 ◼ ► they've done it i think they've knocked it out of the park i'm very very impressed with this
00:58:56 ◼ ► we'll have to try to do our our next uh cortex brand call on this yeah like i set up the persona
00:59:02 ◼ ► i took a look at it and i feel like i guess for me when i think about the facetime calls that i'm
00:59:06 ◼ ► doing i just don't have a scenario in which i can imagine doing the call in the headset well but
00:59:12 ◼ ► except the exact one you just mentioned right the next time we have a call although unfortunately
00:59:17 ◼ ► when i'm doing these i have a great time everyone talking to me has a terrible time because it looks
00:59:22 ◼ ► like my mouth's been so shut or something it's it's very weird because you can see that my face
00:59:26 ◼ ► is moving like i'm talking but my lips don't move it's very right okay so we'll hold off on that
00:59:32 ◼ ► then until they unso your mouth but yeah so like again aside from you i'm just thinking like of all
00:59:39 ◼ ► the the facetime calls that i do i just i do not have the use case for this so that that's why i
00:59:46 ◼ ► was like i just don't use this i haven't done a single one of those calls because it's like it's
00:59:50 ◼ ► just that this is never going to happen for me we may have the case for me where this does make
00:59:55 ◼ ► sense i do still wonder about like versus just a call because there isn't that embodied experience
01:00:03 ◼ ► in this but you know i'll have to see how it goes when we actually give it a shot yeah so i agree
01:00:07 ◼ ► it's surprising how much fidelity they get out of just hold it in front of your face and look left
01:00:14 ◼ ► and look right and smile smile at the shield and then you know raise your eyebrows or whatever like
01:00:19 ◼ ► it does look good you know i'm not going to use it for the calls that i'm on but it is impressive
01:00:24 ◼ ► it is impressive for sure this episode of cortex is brought to you by notion you will have heard
01:00:31 ◼ ► me talk about how much i love and use notion every single day we use it at cortex brand to get our
01:00:37 ◼ ► meeting notes together our documents together we're using it for project management we're using it to
01:00:42 ◼ ► track ideas over a long term we're able to categorize everything i've even started using notion
01:00:48 ◼ ► calendar recently too and notion has the power of ai built right inside to work across my entire
01:00:55 ◼ ► workspace and yours it has been a huge game changer for how i'm getting my work done like i used it
01:01:01 ◼ ► just the other day me and gray had a meeting i wrote down a bunch of notes from my meeting and
01:01:05 ◼ ► i asked notion ai to summarize the action items and the things that we needed to focus on based
01:01:10 ◼ ► on those notes and it did an incredible job of giving me a checklist that i could go over and
01:01:15 ◼ ► make sure i was acting on everything we spoke about notion combines your notes your documents
01:01:20 ◼ ► and projects into one space that is simple and beautifully designed you're able to leverage the
01:01:25 ◼ ► power of ai right inside notion across all of your notes and documents without jumping between your
01:01:30 ◼ ► work or using a separate tool you can even ask questions of notion ai now so even if you're not
01:01:35 ◼ ► sure where do you put those notes in that document that's maybe somewhere and you've got another note
01:01:40 ◼ ► over here and another note over there instead of having to find them notion ai can simplify all of
01:01:45 ◼ ► that for you by you just asking it a question notion is your one place to connect teams tools
01:01:52 ◼ ► and knowledge so you're empowered to do your most meaningful work unlike other specialized tools or
01:01:58 ◼ ► legacy applications you may be bouncing between of like six different things all over the place
01:02:02 ◼ ► notion is seamlessly integrated infinitely flexible and beautifully easy to use and the
01:02:09 ◼ ► fully integrated notion ai will help you work faster write better and think bigger doing tasks
01:02:14 ◼ ► that normally take you hours in just seconds notion is used by over half of the fortune 500
01:02:20 ◼ ► companies and teams that use notion send less email cancel more meetings save time searching
01:02:26 ◼ ► for their work and reduce spending on tools which helps keep everyone on the same page and now you're
01:02:32 ◼ ► able to save time and write faster by letting notion ai handle that first draft for you jump
01:02:37 ◼ ► start a brainstorming session or turn your messy notes into something more polished like i also use
01:02:42 ◼ ► notion ai to help tidy up my grammar and my punctuation in the stuff that i'm writing and
01:02:47 ◼ ► publishing you can automate tedious tasks like summarizing meeting notes or finding next steps
01:02:52 ◼ ► notion ai does all of this and more freeing you up to do the deep work try notion for free when
01:02:58 ◼ ► you go to notion.com cortex that is n-o-t-i-o-n notion.com/cortex to try the powerful easy to use
01:03:06 ◼ ► notion ai and when you use our link you're supporting our show that's all lowercase letters
01:03:23 ◼ ► with a lot of these things i feel like oh i've had like some version of this to try before but one
01:03:31 ◼ ► thing that for me was just really novel and was really quite emotionally shocking was watching
01:03:42 ◼ ► 3d video for the first time in the headset it was so i opened up the photos app to be like oh let
01:03:50 ◼ ► me just check this out i'm just looking through things and apple has uh you know their memories
01:03:55 ◼ ► feature right where they're like put together a little collection of photographs for you
01:04:00 ◼ ► and because you're in this headset like you're in an environment and if you've turned the dial all
01:04:06 ◼ ► the way up you've kind of like isolated yourself from the outside world it's very quiet on the moon
01:04:12 ◼ ► it's very reflective in this environment even just regular photos it's almost too emotionally powerful
01:04:24 ◼ ► in this setting that was very surprising it was almost too much to click on a thing about like
01:04:32 ◼ ► fun times in hawaii right and like then it plays you the videos and you're like watching these
01:04:37 ◼ ► photographs and then i remembered oh i shot a i shot one test 3d video to remember to have for
01:04:47 ◼ ► this moment and i was like completely forgotten about this feature in like the excitement of
01:04:57 ◼ ► and so this past christmas what i will describe as the dog who moved in with us and just like
01:05:04 ◼ ► basically lives with us now my favorite he was with us yes your favorite he was there for
01:05:10 ◼ ► christmas and we had a guest dog in the house who's much bigger and as as always delightfully happens
01:05:16 ◼ ► with dogs they love to steal each other's bones and so you have this little dog runs off and like
01:05:22 ◼ ► steals the big boy bone and he drags it off literally in front of the hearth to like happily
01:05:27 ◼ ► chew on this bone and i was like oh this is like a perfect moment to take a test video because
01:05:32 ◼ ► they're like oh we've got the objects like he's got the bone which is in the foreground and he's
01:05:37 ◼ ► in front of the fireplace and it's in the background it's like okay i'm just gonna record
01:05:41 ◼ ► a little test video of him chewing on this bone and now of course a video like this has everything
01:05:54 ◼ ► too emotionally powerful watching this for the first time the most simple video it caused such
01:06:06 ◼ ► a feeling of what i can only describe as like anticipatory melancholy that like i just like
01:06:12 ◼ ► i couldn't even this is just too much in biology you talk about things as like a like a super
01:06:18 ◼ ► stimulus to me it's like the perfect example of just sure i could easily talk to you about how
01:06:25 ◼ ► oh obviously the frame rate is low on this thing and the detail isn't great and the 3d separation
01:06:33 ◼ ► isn't perfect and they're having to cheat at the edges with a bunch of fuzzing of the effect
01:06:39 ◼ ► i could talk about all of like the reasons that this is not technically perfect but absolutely
01:06:44 ◼ ► none of them matter for the emotional experience that this could convey and i can now completely
01:06:54 ◼ ► understand some of the comments that i've heard from other people where they said they watched
01:06:59 ◼ ► like a like a demo of some of these spatial videos somebody else's family in spatial video
01:07:04 ◼ ► and being overwhelmed with a feeling that they were watching something that's too private like
01:07:10 ◼ ► i shouldn't be watching this video or like this like put a memory in my head that's not mine
01:07:16 ◼ ► so like this feature is shocking like just shockingly good shocking to experience and just
01:07:26 ◼ ► very very powerful like it takes photos and videos and just turns it up even more and might even just
01:07:36 ◼ ► turn it up too much yeah i agree like i took some spatial videos when we were on vacation i have a
01:07:43 ◼ ► friend who works at apple and they were like you should do this to get ready and i was like okay
01:07:47 ◼ ► i'll give it a go so we were going away and i took a bunch and what i kind of learned for me is
01:07:52 ◼ ► they're much nicer if you're stationary if you're moving it doesn't look very good right now so like
01:07:58 ◼ ► that would be my tip to people but to be honest the biggest experience that i had emotionally was
01:08:04 ◼ ► just looking at standard photos like just scrolling through the photo library and yeah the sense of
01:08:11 ◼ ► nostalgia that it gave to me is not like anything i've experienced before and these were photos i
01:08:18 ◼ ► had taken in the last four days and i'm looking at them and i'm like that was such a good meal we had
01:08:25 ◼ ► you know because there's something about these huge images and it dims the background and it
01:08:30 ◼ ► creates this like really warm feeling and the photos from an iphone just look fantastic at that
01:08:37 ◼ ► size i don't really know how right like this photo that's probably 20 feet large or whatever like i'm
01:08:44 ◼ ► just i was like laying back on the sofa and looking up at it at the ceiling and just like
01:08:48 ◼ ► scrolling through them i was like oh this is so wonderful like this is not a reason to get one
01:08:53 ◼ ► but all of these things like all of the reasons in which you would and like this is another of like
01:09:06 ◼ ► view and experience photos and memories in a more intense setting than this i feel like even with
01:09:16 ◼ ► the additional days that we gave it's still not enough like i i look mike i completely agree i
01:09:25 ◼ ► had to stop myself from messaging you again where i was like i don't know man should we delay like
01:09:29 ◼ ► i'm glad that we didn't it's the right decision to not like i cut myself off from that but i did have
01:09:34 ◼ ► this feeling of like i still want more time to process this to really i don't think there is an
01:09:40 ◼ ► amount of time that we could have given that really realistically would have changed this
01:09:43 ◼ ► like this is a situation i'm having to face for my work in general right like i recorded upgrade
01:09:51 ◼ ► yesterday i record connected tomorrow and it's the same problem each time like me and jason
01:09:56 ◼ ► were talking over the weekend and he was like i don't know man i just don't know if i can do it
01:10:01 ◼ ► yet he's like at least we'll be informed by you and gray talking and i was like nope we moved it
01:10:14 ◼ ► this seemed to be a thing for like everyone that's had one of these people that had them for reviews
01:10:20 ◼ ► like you've been from like getting them from embargoes of apple like you've been seeing it
01:10:23 ◼ ► and like a lot of creators are producing multiple videos because it's too much to talk about all at
01:10:29 ◼ ► once and it's a slower more gradual thing i've not used this at home my entire experience has
01:10:35 ◼ ► been followed by the idea of being in a hotel room which has 100 made it better right like
01:10:41 ◼ ► i don't want to be sitting and working looking down at my laptop my 13-inch laptop screen
01:10:47 ◼ ► i'm able to instead have a 30-inch screen for my mac and then a bunch of windows all around so like
01:10:53 ◼ ► my experience is colored by that which is positive like way more positive maybe than if i was at home
01:10:59 ◼ ► where i don't need to use the vision pro to get a bigger screen for my mac because i just have one
01:11:05 ◼ ► at my studio right so all of this is just a longer period of time this isn't like all right got a new
01:11:13 ◼ ► iphone it does this it does that it does this this is what we think about it because there's with that
01:11:19 ◼ ► so much context and like how do you use an iphone it's not a thing i need to explain to you right
01:11:24 ◼ ► like what does it look like to look at the slack app on my phone like you know i don't need to tell
01:11:31 ◼ ► you that where i can tell you for example like looking at the slack app on vision pro is really
01:11:34 ◼ ► good and also it has this button if it's an ipad app where you can change it to be landscape or
01:11:39 ◼ ► portrait depending like these are little details that it's just gonna take a much longer period of
01:11:46 ◼ ► time to tease this stuff out and it's not like every episode of every show i'm gonna do for the
01:11:52 ◼ ► next three months will just be like continually reviewing the product but it will just keep
01:11:57 ◼ ► touching back up on it and i mean while we were recording today a friend texted me said
01:12:02 ◼ ► vision os 1.1 is in beta now which i'm happy about they are pushing it forward i'm actually
01:12:08 ◼ ► very pleased about this like they're gonna start fixing and improving stuff because there's like
01:12:12 ◼ ► a bunch of weird stuff like the keyboard the software keyboard which is bad but okay like it
01:12:18 ◼ ► does the job for simple simple things but every time i use it it pops up in front of the text box
01:12:25 ◼ ► that i need to see it's like that's not right is it but like these are the things that just they're
01:12:29 ◼ ► gonna like stuff's gonna get ironed out we're gonna have more experiences with it this is gonna
01:12:35 ◼ ► be a thing that we'll be touching on forever now this is just part of it now this is just part of
01:12:40 ◼ ► the computer experience for us but it's gonna take a longer period of time to continually form
01:12:46 ◼ ► our thoughts on it because it is so massive this is the most sensory overload i've ever experienced
01:12:54 ◼ ► with a computer before where i'm like oh i want to do this thing and i always get distracted
01:12:59 ◼ ► it's similar to you like i want to check out that app i downloaded and i opened that app picker and
01:13:04 ◼ ► i just scroll for a second and i'm looking at them like oh that one looks and then i do something else
01:13:08 ◼ ► like this has been my life for the last four days i just can't settle yet it's all too new too
01:13:15 ◼ ► overwhelming but then also just the context of this not even the device itself the pure context
01:13:22 ◼ ► of what it means to have a computer like this that does the things it does is new in the way they are
01:13:29 ◼ ► doing it like it has experiences right if you want to do a facetime call and like you have like a
01:13:34 ◼ ► persona call like you would a horizon worker thing you can do that you want to play some games there's
01:13:39 ◼ ► some games they're not that great but there's some games like there are things you know but this idea