0:00:00[MUSIC]
0:00:07>> From relay FM, this is Connected, episode 492.
0:00:11Today's show is brought to you by ShipStation, NetSuit, and Squarespace.
0:00:15I'm one of your co-hosts, Federico Vittucci, and
0:00:17it's my pleasure to introduce to the show Mr. Steven Hackett.
0:00:20Hello, Steven.
0:00:21>> Hello, Federico.
0:00:23>> Hi, how are you?
0:00:24>> I'm good, what about you?
0:00:26>> I am sad about Nintendo emulation, but otherwise, I'm good.
0:00:29>> Yeah, that was the pro show, second week in a row.
0:00:33>> Yes.
0:00:34>> It's a whole scene over there.
0:00:36>> And it's already over, so that topic is done for, yeah.
0:00:40>> Well, I mean, Nintendo will sue somebody else, it's inevitable.
0:00:42We're also joined by Mr. Mike Hurley.
0:00:47>> Effie.
0:00:47>> No, no, are we still doing the Italian?
0:00:51>> Yeah, teach Italian is coming up later on in the show.
0:00:54>> Yeah, we're going straight to the L.
0:00:57>> That's a lot of letters, whoa, we skipped, we skipped, okay.
0:01:02It's from F to L, that's how the Italian alphabet were.
0:01:05>> No, no, no, no, what got to that in a few minutes, don't worry.
0:01:10I want to see if you did your homework.
0:01:12So, but before we do that- >> We have homework?
0:01:15>> I don't remember.
0:01:15>> Yes, yes, we have follow up before we do that.
0:01:20>> We do, we do have follow up.
0:01:23I call this section Apple can't stop talking about secrets.
0:01:27>> That's a nice name.
0:01:28>> [LAUGH]
0:01:31>> There was a shareholder meeting.
0:01:33I really don't pay attention to those because there's always like people angry
0:01:35about something and then Tim Cook says something spicy like,
0:01:38if you don't care about the environment, get out of the stock or whatever he said.
0:01:41During the shareholder meeting this year,
0:01:44Cook apparently said that Apple will break new ground in generative AI in 2024.
0:01:49Quote, we believe it will unlock transformative opportunities for our users.
0:01:56>> Was that a pun, do you think?
0:01:58>> Transformative?
0:01:59>> Maybe.
0:02:01>> Do you think Tim Cook does puns?
0:02:02>> I don't know.
0:02:04I feel like Tim Cook would do them, but you don't know how we are right now.
0:02:09And everyone just sits and looks at him, and he's just like gives you nothing back.
0:02:14So you're not really sure if he's punning you or not, you know?
0:02:18I can see that too.
0:02:20Anyways, this made me think, Tim Cook talks about secret things all the time.
0:02:24I have two examples of Tim Cook and one for Jeff Williams.
0:02:28So way back in 2013, before the Apple Watch was announced,
0:02:34I think the most famous one is Tim Cook was actually asked about AR glasses and
0:02:38he sort of, maybe that's where he got the idea for the Vision Pro.
0:02:41But he just sort of shuffled that off and then was talking about health sensors and
0:02:45said the wrist is a natural place, and a year later we got the Apple Watch.
0:02:50Clearly was on his mind, and it came out.
0:02:52Jeff Williams, just a couple of years later in 2015,
0:02:58said that the car was the ultimate mobile device.
0:03:01Apple's car isn't, but at the time, I guess that was going on.
0:03:06And then one that we talked about on the show just a couple of years ago,
0:03:13Tim Cook had an interview with Kara Swisher for the New York Times.
0:03:17I was going to read this quote.
0:03:19You and I are having a great conversation right now.
0:03:22Arguably, it could be even better if we were able to augment our discussion with
0:03:26charts or other things to appear.
0:03:28Remember that, AR charts?
0:03:29Ironically, numbers, not a native vision OS app.
0:03:35So you're running that in iPad compatibility mode, sadly.
0:03:38But yeah, they talk about what's on their minds a lot more than,
0:03:43I think, you know, it happens every couple of years, you don't think about it.
0:03:46But when you sit down and start Googling around, it's like, oh,
0:03:50every couple of years, they say something that maybe they shouldn't.
0:03:54I feel like you've reached a new level with your history database or something.
0:04:01Because I feel like for the last three weeks,
0:04:03you've done a very good job of bringing in history.
0:04:06Has something changed?
0:04:08Are you doing something different?
0:04:09We're using Notion instead of Google Docs.
0:04:12Yeah, but that's not going to change, like, yes, we are doing that for the show,
0:04:14but that's not going to change.
0:04:16That's a causation correlation, causation correlation situation.
0:04:22But no, I don't know.
0:04:24I mean, when I read this, I remembered the wrist is the natural place.
0:04:28And we just talked about the cars, maybe that was on my mind.
0:04:32What a great, just out of context, Tim Cook, the wrist is a natural place.
0:04:38Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty natural place.
0:04:40Yeah, I mean, look, they've already said it.
0:04:42I think they're actually smart.
0:04:43Like, they do this every now and again.
0:04:45But I think the AI thing is particularly smart.
0:04:47Just tell everyone you're doing it.
0:04:49Like, if you're doing it, just tell everyone you're doing it.
0:04:52They're not saying what they're doing exactly.
0:04:54Clearly, WWDC will feature AI stuff.
0:04:57And so, however much of that they do is whatever they do.
0:05:00But I think it is best for them right now to let the world know
0:05:07that they have something cooking.
0:05:08Because, you know, if you just look at it on the face of it,
0:05:12their main competitors are already pretty advanced in this.
0:05:16And they've done not really a lot of the same kinds of stuff anyway.
0:05:22Mike, do you want to take this next one?
0:05:24No, because I don't like the slander.
0:05:27OK.
0:05:29Last time, or a previous time, I don't even know.
0:05:33It was last time.
0:05:33We talked about LaTeX.
0:05:35And you were very upset about how it was pronounced.
0:05:39Matt Van Ormer-- excuse me, Dr. Matt Van Ormer, one of our moderators
0:05:44in Discord, somehow remembered that you talked about this on episode 105
0:05:49of Cortex and pronounced it correctly.
0:05:52What's funny about that episode, Gray shows up and he's like,
0:05:57have you heard about this thing called Obsidian?
0:05:59It's this pretty cool side project.
0:06:01And now, of course, his entire life is in there.
0:06:03So it's funny to hear when things start.
0:06:05And so, yeah, I don't know what happened.
0:06:07You got old and forgot how to say it.
0:06:09No, look, my response to this is, imagine having a perfect memory.
0:06:14Well, he is a doctor and we're not--
0:06:15It's an episode of Black Mirror.
0:06:18I feel like I could give this as feedback to follow up.
0:06:22I receive a lot.
0:06:24Imagine having a perfect memory.
0:06:26People say things and they forget them.
0:06:28Because on episode 65 of Cortex--
0:06:31Oh, now who has the perfect memory?
0:06:34Well, no, I just went on to David Smith's pod search
0:06:38and just typed in Latex and see what came up.
0:06:41And on episode 65 of Cortex, me and Gray
0:06:44had the exact same conversation where I was upset about Latex versus Latex,
0:06:48which he agreed with me.
0:06:49And that he always gets it wrong too.
0:06:52So actually, you're very consistent in your complaint.
0:06:55Yeah, the complaint is that it's stupid that it's spelled that way.
0:06:59The formatting is stupid.
0:07:00Why is the x capital stupid?
0:07:02I think it's stupid.
0:07:04And people should call it Latex, and then that's the end of it.
0:07:07But to be fair, Gray also calls it OS X, so--
0:07:11Yeah, you can't trust that guy.
0:07:12I feel like, I don't know what to do about that.
0:07:15He's not even a real person.
0:07:16He's a stick figure.
0:07:17That's true.
0:07:18That's going on over there.
0:07:19We would talk to an anime character, you know?
0:07:22This is not in the show notes, but I'm going to interject here.
0:07:25I had to type out watch OS X several times recently.
0:07:30And I so badly wanted to spell it watch OS with a capital X.
0:07:37Like, I had to really stop and make sure I was doing it right.
0:07:41So that's still in my brain.
0:07:42You should have.
0:07:44You should have done it.
0:07:45I dare you.
0:07:48I think Underscore really liked that.
0:07:50I dare you.
0:07:51It's up to you how you want to deal with that.
0:07:53But I've dared you to do it.
0:07:54OK.
0:07:56So last time we spoke about iOS 17.4 and programs of attitude,
0:08:00PWAs, that Apple was removing them from iOS 17.4.
0:08:06Apple has since decided they won't do that.
0:08:09What they're going to be doing is one of the things
0:08:12that we spoke about last time, which they could do,
0:08:15but they didn't do, which is still
0:08:17allow people to choose whatever web browser they want,
0:08:20but that they could offer a PWA and it just uses WebKit
0:08:25to power the PWA.
0:08:27Right.
0:08:28That's the difference.
0:08:29The PWA itself is on the WebKit stack,
0:08:31even if you're using Firefox with the Mozilla engine
0:08:34or Chrome with Blink or whatever.
0:08:37Yeah.
0:08:37I do wonder.
0:08:41There's kind of a weird thing about the DMA
0:08:43that I think has sort of glanced over a little bit.
0:08:45They put forth the rules, and then Apple basically
0:08:48has to give their plan on how to meet those rules.
0:08:52And I don't even think it's in the document,
0:08:56but even I think yesterday there were some more changes
0:08:58that they were announced.
0:08:59So I wonder if this is one of those things
0:09:01that maybe it was public feedback,
0:09:04maybe it was just they didn't have a plan
0:09:07and they were late to it.
0:09:08Or maybe the EU was like, hey, this particular issue
0:09:11we need you to readdress.
0:09:13We may never know, but I'm glad they're doing it.
0:09:17It's the right thing to do because there
0:09:20are people who do depend on those things.
0:09:22And cutting them out of the OS for what
0:09:25seemed like a pretty thin reason was kind of lame.
0:09:30So anyways, I'm glad they've reversed course,
0:09:32no matter how it happened.
0:09:34I mean, I just choose to--
0:09:36I give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.
0:09:38If I was in the same situation, I could imagine they're like,
0:09:42well, they're never going to let us to keep doing this
0:09:45because they've told us we can't use WebKit
0:09:47or we have to allow our browser engines.
0:09:51So there's no way we're going to get away with the PWA thing.
0:09:53So let's just remove it.
0:09:54I just figured they had to do it.
0:09:56Then people complained.
0:09:57Then maybe European Union were like, hey, you can't do this.
0:10:00And they were like, we were trying to follow your rules.
0:10:01And they're like, well, we don't care about that.
0:10:04So fine, it's easy for us.
0:10:06Here you go.
0:10:07Have it back.
0:10:08So that's how I reckon it went down.
0:10:11I mean, maybe I'm less cynical than others,
0:10:13but that's kind of what I expect happened.
0:10:17Yeah, I mean, regardless, it's the right call.
0:10:19It is the right call.
0:10:20Yeah, this is the best thing for everybody.
0:10:22Yeah, the next controversy will be, well,
0:10:25why can I not save a Google Chrome web app to my iPhone's
0:10:31home screen?
0:10:32But we'll see if it comes to that.
0:10:33We don't even know.
0:10:35I mean, there's no version of Chrome or Firefox
0:10:37based on different engines in Europe for now.
0:10:40So maybe that controversy will not happen.
0:10:42But if those companies ever release a non-WebKit version
0:10:46of their browsers, I think it will happen.
0:10:48We'll have this conversation like, well,
0:10:50why can I not save a Gecko powered PWA to my home screen?
0:10:56So we'll get to that if it ever happens.
0:10:59Do you think that the browser companies will do this?
0:11:02I have no idea.
0:11:02I feel like Mozilla might, but--
0:11:04Mozilla might because Mozilla tries everything these days.
0:11:07They'll do anything.
0:11:08True.
0:11:09Two different results.
0:11:11Weren't they going to do like a Mastodon server at some point?
0:11:14Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:11:15Also, it's a good idea.
0:11:17Yeah, I mean, they obviously have different leaderships.
0:11:21But Mozilla and Vivaldi are the two browser companies
0:11:26that are trying a bunch of different things.
0:11:30Vivaldi, they also have a Mastodon instance.
0:11:34They have a note-taking feature inside of their browser.
0:11:38It's kind of wild.
0:11:39Oh, you can-- like Opera, they have like gaming mode?
0:11:42Oh, yeah, Opera is kind of gross, I think.
0:11:44They're doing some-- aren't they doing some crypto mining stuff?
0:11:48But this is the same thing.
0:11:50Opera will do everything.
0:11:52Yeah, yes, yes.
0:11:53They will just do everything.
0:11:55And they have like a gaming mode for real gamers.
0:11:58They do have some sort of crypto multiverse X Web 3 support
0:12:04stuff all over their blog.
0:12:06So I don't know what's going on there.
0:12:08Yeah, no idea.
0:12:09No idea.
0:12:11So anyway, 17.4 is out, obviously,
0:12:14with all the European-related changes.
0:12:18But there are some other features for it.
0:12:21Do you feel free from the shackles of the App Store?
0:12:24I feel empowered by democracy right now.
0:12:30I touch my phone now, and I smell democracy.
0:12:34Smells like hot dogs.
0:12:36No, it smells like the streets of Venice.
0:12:40What I like is this description of democracy
0:12:43is rules that nobody really knows how to implement.
0:12:48This is what democracy is giving us.
0:12:51That is democracy.
0:12:52Yeah, have you heard of the electoral college?
0:12:54No one knows how that thing works.
0:12:56Unclear rules that no one's quite sure about.
0:12:58Democracy.
0:12:59It's one of those words that you just say because it
0:13:03makes you feel good.
0:13:04Democracy, ah, yes, yes.
0:13:06How does it work?
0:13:06Who knows?
0:13:09There are other features for non-European users,
0:13:13like transcripts in podcasts.
0:13:15Really good.
0:13:15Yeah.
0:13:16Really good.
0:13:17They spell my name right, surprisingly.
0:13:20Yeah, I had a listener question about that.
0:13:22Like, how do they know your names?
0:13:24Like, well, they have the podcast feed,
0:13:25and our names are in podcast feed.
0:13:28So that's good.
0:13:29I'll also point out-- and we'll put a link to Jason's thing
0:13:32in the show notes.
0:13:33He wrote a nice piece about transcripts.
0:13:36Currently, there's no support for transcriptions
0:13:42on members-only versions of podcasts.
0:13:44Yeah, individualized private feeds.
0:13:47Like what we use with our members.
0:13:49Like what most people do, all Patreon, all Number 4, most--
0:13:53because if you have just a singular private feed,
0:13:57it's not really that private, you know?
0:13:59Because then it's not individualized.
0:14:02But they should have transcripts for that,
0:14:06or let us upload our own.
0:14:08And that doesn't seem to be working right now.
0:14:10So--
0:14:10Yeah, I don't know if this is ever going to work.
0:14:13Like, I don't know how would you do it.
0:14:14If every feed is individualized, how on earth
0:14:17could they serve the transcript?
0:14:20Just point everyone to a file on my server.
0:14:22Like, that's fine.
0:14:24They import descriptions that are all the same for everybody.
0:14:27Like, this is not a thing they have--
0:14:29like, Apple's made this more complicated than it
0:14:31needs to be, I think.
0:14:32And it's a bummer, because we want our members
0:14:35to have a good experience.
0:14:37And I also hope that other third-party podcast players
0:14:41will upload transcripts, because it's much easier
0:14:44to make them now.
0:14:44Right.
0:14:45We've gotten this question over the years of like,
0:14:48why do you have transcripts?
0:14:49It's really hard to do transcripts mainly
0:14:52at our size.
0:14:53And AI tools, while not perfect, make honestly pretty good ones.
0:14:58Apple's are really good, actually.
0:15:01And what we can use--
0:15:02They're the best I've seen.
0:15:03They're unbelievable.
0:15:04Yeah.
0:15:05And what we can make now are pretty good.
0:15:07And so hopefully this rolls out to more podcast players,
0:15:10and hopefully Apple fixes it for private feeds,
0:15:12because a lot of people use those.
0:15:14And Apple's fine with all sorts of monetization on podcast.
0:15:19It's just some are more equal than others,
0:15:21it feels like right now.
0:15:23Yeah, like, I'm sure that these would work if we did an Apple
0:15:26podcast subscription.
0:15:28Right.
0:15:29Of course, though.
0:15:29I mean, I'm being--
0:15:30Which we can't--
0:15:31I'm being a jerk.
0:15:32I know what I got to do.
0:15:34No, we're not going to, because the 30%, 70% split
0:15:38doesn't make any sense.
0:15:39Yeah, take that on, EU.
0:15:42The biggest news in iOS 17.4, honestly,
0:15:45probably the lime emoji.
0:15:47Lime emoji.
0:15:48I've already used it like three times.
0:15:50Me too.
0:15:51On my Mac that is not updated to the latest version of Sonoma,
0:15:55I see as a lemon followed by a green square.
0:15:59There's not a new version of Sonoma yet.
0:16:01There's not a 0.4.
0:16:02Oh, it's not out?
0:16:03No, my guess is Friday with the new-- or just sometime ahead
0:16:07of the new MacBook Airs.
0:16:09The new Macs, yeah.
0:16:10So do you remember?
0:16:11That's called a zwidge.
0:16:13Yes, where they cram two emoji together and a new one
0:16:16comes out.
0:16:17Yeah, a little zwidgey.
0:16:18When a lemon emoji and a green box emoji
0:16:20love each other very much, a lime comes into the world.
0:16:24Wow.
0:16:26Papa, how are limes made?
0:16:29That's how I imagine that conversation.
0:16:31How is Babbie formed?
0:16:32How is lime formed?
0:16:36But yes, 17.4 is here.
0:16:38It has stuff, but the main stuff is the EU stuff.
0:16:40And currently, I don't think there's anything, right,
0:16:43Federico?
0:16:43There's nothing that you can do?
0:16:48So I haven't seen-- we've heard of at least two app
0:16:55marketplaces launching soon.
0:16:57I don't believe they have launched.
0:17:00And I'm living right now in this weird, unsurprisingly,
0:17:04scenario in which--
0:17:05well, obviously--
0:17:06You?
0:17:09Weird, me, no way.
0:17:12So obviously, physically, I'm in Italy right now, and usually.
0:17:18If you recall, during the iOS 17.4 beta cycle,
0:17:23we spoke about that option in that little setting
0:17:28in the Settings app called the Identifiable Region that
0:17:33told you what region your iPhone running 17.4 was identifying
0:17:40you as--
0:17:43like, where are you based?
0:17:45Now, in the version, in the public version of 17.4,
0:17:49this Identifiable Region is gone.
0:17:53And despite living in Italy and my phone previously recognizing
0:18:00me as having an Identifiable Region of Italy,
0:18:05I haven't seen any of the EU pop-ups in the App Store
0:18:12or Safari.
0:18:14So you haven't got the browser ballot.
0:18:15I think my phone right now thinks
0:18:20I'm an American traveling to Italy.
0:18:23So I think these settings will appear eventually.
0:18:28I am living in a grace period.
0:18:31I genuinely think your Apple ID is like a key part that's
0:18:35going to mess this up.
0:18:38Probably.
0:18:38Maybe.
0:18:39Probably.
0:18:41You know how you have like a--
0:18:43I think you have like a burner American phone?
0:18:46You need a burner EU phone.
0:18:48Yeah.
0:18:48Maybe set.
0:18:49Yeah.
0:18:50You'd be like Saul Goodman when he opens his desk door
0:18:52and there's a bunch of phones.
0:18:53You'd be that guy.
0:18:55Yeah.
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0:20:53So Federico, your friends over in the European Commission,
0:21:01they have handed a basically $2 billion fine to Apple
0:21:06because of anti-competitive stuff with Spotify.
0:21:10Me and Jason had a good chat about this on upgrade.
0:21:13I wanted to know what the two of you
0:21:15thought about this pretty hefty fine.
0:21:18I mean, obviously, if you read the explanation
0:21:25from the European Commission, I think
0:21:29it's a very well-written and reasonable explanation.
0:21:34And what they're describing that Apple did
0:21:38is exactly what Apple did in terms of not telling iOS users
0:21:45about other options for signing up for a Spotify account
0:21:50and, therefore, having consumers spend more money
0:21:54where another cheaper option was available.
0:21:58I mean, can you dispute the fact that that
0:22:01is the truth of the situation and that's
0:22:03been going on for a decade at this point?
0:22:06That is just the plain truth whether Apple likes it or not.
0:22:10And of course, Apple doesn't like it.
0:22:13I am loving-- I think Mike is sort of vibing with me here.
0:22:20I am absolutely loving the chaos of this situation.
0:22:24This is like Nero watching Rome burn.
0:22:31It's like this is pure chaos.
0:22:35We have what is arguably the strongest ever worded Apple
0:22:42newsroom press release that reads like a blog post
0:22:46by an Apple-related publication.
0:22:52Like an enthusiast website?
0:22:54I would say like an enthusiast website, yes.
0:22:57I mean, this person is very enthusiastic.
0:22:59The person who wrote this--
0:23:00They had some caffeine when they wrote this thing, man.
0:23:03If I had the budget, I would hire this person for Mac stories.
0:23:08This is an excellent way to respond to an argument
0:23:13and to--
0:23:15I mean, it's a very--
0:23:16you can disagree with it, and I do.
0:23:18I disagree with the statement, but it's
0:23:20a very forceful response.
0:23:23Five times-- five times in this press release,
0:23:27they say pays Apple nothing.
0:23:30Five times, they say it, that Apple is paid nothing.
0:23:34Nothing, I say, nothing.
0:23:37The funny thing is, there is absolutely no other way
0:23:39that Apple makes money from iOS, right?
0:23:44It's like the strange part is they make no money, right?
0:23:48Like the iPhones, we all know, they give them for free.
0:23:52So there's no way that people-- oh, no, they actually
0:23:55make 40% on every single iPhone that they
0:23:56sell to the tune of billions and billions and billions
0:23:59and billions of dollars a quarter.
0:24:01In all of this, by the way, all this dispute going on,
0:24:06especially in the EU, but then also in other regions,
0:24:10but really mostly in the EU right now,
0:24:13I still think how wild it is.
0:24:16All this time, this energy that we have spent as observers,
0:24:20and obviously the time and money that Apple has spent,
0:24:23legal expenses, and all the other companies, and the EU,
0:24:26all of this could be solved if iPhones
0:24:29worked like the other computers that Apple makes.
0:24:33Like, if you think about it, just make it work like a Mac.
0:24:38Well, it's just the one computer that works that way.
0:24:40I mean, we talked about this at some point on a podcast.
0:24:45Maybe it was in PU.
0:24:46Anyways, the Mac is the only one that
0:24:48works in the way that you're getting ready to describe.
0:24:50You're just like, put apps on it and do whatever you want.
0:24:53The iPhone and then everything that is descended from the phone
0:24:57is like the phone.
0:24:58Yeah, but at some point, maybe cut your losses
0:25:01and realize, well, we have this thing that's
0:25:02been going pretty well so far.
0:25:05Nobody ever fined us $2 billion over a Macintosh.
0:25:10Maybe we should just follow that model.
0:25:14Because all this drama, it could have saved you the trouble.
0:25:19Just make it work that way, and nobody's ever
0:25:22going to complain again.
0:25:25I don't know.
0:25:26Obviously, I'm not an expert, but I'm looking at the Mac,
0:25:31and I'm like, nobody ever got upset at the Mac this way.
0:25:36I look at what the iPhone is doing.
0:25:38So maybe just follow your older brother in the lineup
0:25:41and do that.
0:25:43I don't know.
0:25:44If there is only some way to keep those gates.
0:25:49I know that the services revenue--
0:25:53I guess it's because it's the driver, right?
0:25:56Services is like $22 billion a quarter.
0:25:58And let's just imagine 80% of that is App Store stuff.
0:26:06Remember a bunch of money that's also at Google.
0:26:10So let's say half.
0:26:12I was going to say, don't forget the search deal.
0:26:15It would be-- so looking at Q423,
0:26:19it would take their earnings from $89 to $78.
0:26:24I don't think that's a big deal.
0:26:27I mean, it's obviously big for Wall Street.
0:26:29They'd be like, ah!
0:26:30But I feel like if they just--
0:26:33they would have a tough time for, I don't know, a year.
0:26:37But then it would just readjust, and the growth
0:26:39would begin again.
0:26:42Just broadly speaking, wouldn't it be better--
0:26:44Maybe this is why we're not CEOs of these huge companies.
0:26:47Maybe, maybe.
0:26:48Sure, maybe.
0:26:48But a very simplistic point of view
0:26:51would be, wouldn't it be better to make your money off
0:26:55of services based on merit alone rather than gatekeeping?
0:27:03Make money on services if people like your services
0:27:05and give you money for those instead of like, well,
0:27:08we make money off of our services
0:27:09because we kind of want to hide the other options,
0:27:13or at the very least make them more expensive for customers.
0:27:16Wouldn't it be better if you make money off of Apple Music
0:27:19because people really like Apple Music?
0:27:23Steering doesn't sound nice.
0:27:25I don't want to be steered as a human being.
0:27:29That is what they're doing, right?
0:27:30Yeah, you should buy a Tesla.
0:27:33No steering, please.
0:27:35So I would like to self-drive my way through the App Store.
0:27:37I was going to say, that's what Apple's car was all about.
0:27:40They're anti-steering all over the place.
0:27:42That's very true, very true.
0:27:45Let's cleanse our palates with Professor Petitche.
0:27:48See, with all this European Union drama that's unfolding,
0:27:52I find it really beneficial for you guys
0:27:54to learn some Italians.
0:27:57So that when the time comes that we
0:27:58have to litigate our way into some kind of law
0:28:03that we're breaking with this podcast
0:28:05because we're being anti-competitive,
0:28:07we can do that as a trio in Italian.
0:28:10So last time in the Teach Italian segment, we learned--
0:28:13and it's a royal "we," of course.
0:28:16I knew them.
0:28:17I hope you learned them.
0:28:20The first few letters of the Italian alphabet.
0:28:23So "a, b, c, d, e, f."
0:28:26Now, can we do a quick recap, Mike and Steven,
0:28:29of the letters we learned?
0:28:30Yeah, "a, b, c, d, e, f."
0:28:35You just-- you misspelled one, Mike.
0:28:37Ah, which one?
0:28:39It's not "e."
0:28:39It's "e."
0:28:40"e."
0:28:41"f."
0:28:41Yes.
0:28:42"f" is my favorite.
0:28:43"fa" is the best one.
0:28:44All right, and Steven, I assume--
0:28:47do we get a version from you?
0:28:50I did at the same time Mike did.
0:28:51I think you'll find that on the tape.
0:28:53Everyone clearly heard it.
0:28:54Today, we are moving to the next six letters.
0:28:57And the difficulty is going--
0:29:01maybe rising a little bit here.
0:29:04So we're doing "ghikl."
0:29:08In Italian, this will be--
0:29:09first one is easy, "g."
0:29:11All right, so it's like in English.
0:29:13"g."
0:29:13Now the "h" is one particular little dude, "aka."
0:29:20"aka."
0:29:21Excuse me?
0:29:22Yes, "aka."
0:29:23This is like the jump scare, right?
0:29:29Because I feel like everything else before was like,
0:29:31yeah, I know, I can understand how we get there.
0:29:33I'm going to read you all the letters.
0:29:36"g," "aka," "e," "j," "kappa."
0:29:40So it's different from "aka," but it's similar.
0:29:43"kappa," "e."
0:29:44This is way harder.
0:29:45This is interesting.
0:29:46What happened to "h" and "k"?
0:29:48You know what I mean?
0:29:48Why are we in a different world here?
0:29:50Yeah, so "h" is "aka," and "k" is "kappa."
0:29:55Yeah.
0:29:55Wait, what was it?
0:29:57"Kappa."
0:29:58"Kappa."
0:29:59"Kappa," with a hard "c."
0:30:01"I'd like a cup of coffee."
0:30:02Like that?
0:30:03"I'd like a cup of coffee," yes.
0:30:04Yes.
0:30:05Let me do it like Mario.
0:30:06"I'd like a cup of coffee."
0:30:08Yeah.
0:30:09I pitched.
0:30:09[LAUGHTER]
0:30:12OK.
0:30:12It's higher.
0:30:13I can't go that high.
0:30:14Let me see how high I can go.
0:30:15Let me get some water.
0:30:17Jim, leave all this in.
0:30:19Yeah.
0:30:20All right, Mario walks into an espresso shop.
0:30:23Yeah.
0:30:24"I'd like a cup of coffee."
0:30:28Like that.
0:30:29Yeah, there he is.
0:30:29That's a sudden-sounding Mario.
0:30:33Mario's on the chat.
0:30:34"Kate, that was Mickey Mouse.
0:30:36Get out, Kate!"
0:30:39All right.
0:30:39All right.
0:30:40So, so, so, G, AKA, I. The first three.
0:30:44G, AKA, I.
0:30:46G, AKA, I.
0:30:47Yes, perfect.
0:30:49J, kappa, L.
0:30:52J, kappa, L.
0:30:55Yeah, yeah, I can go with that.
0:30:57J, kappa, L.
0:31:00See, this is the same mistake you do with the "efe."
0:31:04It's not "efe."
0:31:05It's not "ele."
0:31:07It's "ele." Longer.
0:31:10"Ele."
0:31:12Well, not that long.
0:31:13That fixes it.
0:31:14It fixes it.
0:31:15That's it.
0:31:16Just overdo it.
0:31:17Don't overdo it.
0:31:19J, kappa, L.
0:31:23OK, OK.
0:31:24I can live with that.
0:31:24I can live with that.
0:31:25That's pretty good.
0:31:26It sounds pretty good to me.
0:31:28And I will tell you, Federico, all week,
0:31:31I have been laughing to myself when I think of LMN.
0:31:35The way that you said them last time
0:31:36was so funny to me.
0:31:38We're going to have fun next week.
0:31:39I can't wait.
0:31:40Next week, we're just going to finish the alphabet.
0:31:44We started with six, and then six again.
0:31:46Next time, we're just going to finish it.
0:31:48Dude, that's 19 letters.
0:31:50No.
0:31:50Well, no.
0:31:5114 letters.
0:31:51Wait.
0:31:5214 letters.
0:31:53Yes.
0:31:56Everybody knows there's five extra letters in the sign.
0:31:59I was counting on my hands and lost track.
0:32:01As a spoiler for next week, there
0:32:03are some beautiful, beautiful letters waiting for us,
0:32:07such as eme, ene, ku, and, of course, the best one, erre.
0:32:15Well, look, one of my favorite letters in any language
0:32:18is Dublevé.
0:32:19I hope you're going to give me something of that quality.
0:32:21Oh, yes, yes.
0:32:23The W, of course.
0:32:24Yeah, that's all I want.
0:32:26Dublevé.
0:32:27It's not Dublevé.
0:32:28So let's go from one form of Federico chaos
0:32:31to another form of Federico chaos.
0:32:34I almost feel like this is the tragedy and--
0:32:38was it tragedy and misery, the two masks,
0:32:41the dramatic masks?
0:32:43We've had this conversation before, I know,
0:32:44and I've forgotten.
0:32:45Two masks, tragedy and tragedy.
0:32:48It's like comedy and tragedy.
0:32:49Comedy and tragedy.
0:32:50Are you saying there are two masks inside of me?
0:32:53Is it sort of like that?
0:32:54The two masks of chaos, where one is just
0:32:57like here's a little bit of fun, and then the other is like,
0:33:01I'm going to rise something from the dead, you know?
0:33:05Like true Federico Frankenstein, the MacPad.
0:33:09I am going to assume the majority of our listeners
0:33:12have seen this by now.
0:33:13But if they haven't, there'll be a link in the show notes
0:33:15over at MacStories, where essentially Federico--
0:33:18can you give the top level as to what the MacPad is?
0:33:22The MacPad is a hybrid Mac and iPad merged together,
0:33:28thanks to magnets and the Apple sidecar technology.
0:33:32From a hardware standpoint, it's an M2 MacBook Air
0:33:36without the display.
0:33:38The iPad is the display, and the iPad
0:33:41floats above the keyboard, thanks to magnets.
0:33:43From a software standpoint, it's all based on Apple software.
0:33:47It's all based on sidecar and universal control.
0:33:51All right.
0:33:51So the key part of this here is that you took a laptop
0:33:56and you removed the screen.
0:33:57Like that is the very, very key part of it.
0:33:59It's the hardest part.
0:34:00Yeah.
0:34:01I kind of want to get into this a little bit with you,
0:34:03because I feel like within the last year,
0:34:06you have become modern curious, and you've
0:34:09been tinkering with stuff.
0:34:12I remember saying there was something
0:34:13you wanted to do a while ago, and I
0:34:15was encouraging you to solve it.
0:34:16And you didn't want to do it, right?
0:34:18Because it is a bit of a--
0:34:22there is a bit of a hump to get over
0:34:23when you start tinkering with electronics.
0:34:26Like, it's intimidating to start.
0:34:29And then you kind of realize--
0:34:30well, I feel, anyway, how kind of crudely a lot of this stuff
0:34:34is actually put together.
0:34:35And most electronics-- most, I will say, electronics--
0:34:39can take a little bit more than you think they can.
0:34:43And Stephen, would you agree with that?
0:34:45Like, I know that you've dealt with a lot of really
0:34:47old technology in your time, like tinkering with that.
0:34:50That there's kind of like--
0:34:51you can be imprecise, and things will still work mostly, OK?
0:34:55Yeah, I think that's fair.
0:34:57And I feel like that's the thing that you've learned.
0:34:59But yeah, Federico, I want to know,
0:35:01what was it like kind of dissembling,
0:35:03removing the display, and then putting this laptop back
0:35:08together again?
0:35:10I mean, the process was mostly fine.
0:35:13I watched the video that I was referencing
0:35:17by Luc Miani on YouTube.
0:35:19I watched it a couple of times before doing it myself.
0:35:22I made a note of all the steps that I needed to follow,
0:35:26all the equipment that I needed.
0:35:28The hardest part was the fact that I was missing
0:35:32one particular T2 screwdriver.
0:35:36I reached the very end of the disassembly,
0:35:40and I thought I had failed at the whole thing,
0:35:44because I couldn't remove one final screw.
0:35:48And I basically forced it out with a bigger screwdriver,
0:35:51and it was fine.
0:35:52I was listening to you tell John that on App Stories,
0:35:56and I think I was driving.
0:35:58I was like, ugh.
0:36:02It was OK.
0:36:02It was OK.
0:36:03So first up, Federico, you need the full iFixit kit.
0:36:07Yeah.
0:36:09You will just appreciate having it.
0:36:12Yeah.
0:36:12Yeah, I had the basic one, but it
0:36:15doesn't have all the tools.
0:36:16Yeah, you want the full one, like the ProTech toolkit.
0:36:19That's what you want.
0:36:20The ProTech, yes.
0:36:21It's a really, really good thing to own.
0:36:25I recommend it.
0:36:26I've used mine just for regular stuff,
0:36:29just because all the bits, you get all the bits.
0:36:31They're all there.
0:36:33It's a nice investment.
0:36:34It's pretty well made, too.
0:36:36And the other thing that proved a little too difficult,
0:36:39and then eventually I lost my patience,
0:36:40was putting back all the shields that
0:36:44were covering all the connectors.
0:36:46And so I ran out of patience, and I was like, you know what?
0:36:49I'm just going to not put back these other shields.
0:36:52I put back--
0:36:53OK, so similarly, this was my favorite part.
0:36:55Because it's kind of like, you were so far.
0:36:58Like, why didn't you just do it?
0:37:00No, I couldn't be bothered.
0:37:02I was all excited to try the thing.
0:37:05And so I did more than the original YouTube video did.
0:37:11So at the very least, I put back the shield
0:37:13on the battery connector, because that
0:37:15was making me uneasy to leave it unshielded.
0:37:19I saw that in his video.
0:37:21I was like, what are you doing?
0:37:22Yeah, I put back that one.
0:37:24I put back the shields on the speaker connector.
0:37:27I think I covered the essentials of the critical components
0:37:31inside.
0:37:33But really, the hard work--
0:37:37it was actually more difficult, honestly, to--
0:37:40obviously, first, to find the courage to do it.
0:37:43Finding the willingness to do it was more difficult
0:37:46than actually doing it.
0:37:48And honestly, it was more challenging to line up
0:37:51the magnets just right than to-- it's
0:37:53very easy to open up a MacBook Air.
0:37:55And the machine is beautiful inside.
0:37:58So you can tell it's an Apple product, obviously.
0:38:01It's very precise, and clean, and easy to understand.
0:38:07Is there a hole in the back?
0:38:08Now that the screen is gone and the hinge is gone.
0:38:11There is a small hole in the back, yes.
0:38:15I am leaving it.
0:38:16I am leaving it just open for now.
0:38:21I am not particularly worried about dust or--
0:38:25I'm not going to take this thing to the beach, obviously.
0:38:29I am not.
0:38:30You just pour the sand out of your laptop
0:38:32at the end of the day?
0:38:33It's fine.
0:38:34It's all silicon in the end, you know?
0:38:36Good point.
0:38:38Yeah, yeah, no.
0:38:39There is a small gap in the front.
0:38:41But hey, maybe it's good for ventilation, you know?
0:38:43It's one extra--
0:38:45Improved air flow.
0:38:46Yeah, improved the air flow.
0:38:47There's one extra window.
0:38:48You should run a Geekbench on it and just see if it's
0:38:52improved it at all.
0:38:53One thing that you said elsewhere
0:38:56that I didn't think about until you said it,
0:38:58I was like, oh, of course.
0:38:59You said the battery life's incredible, right?
0:39:02Yes, yeah.
0:39:04That's because the computer is not powering
0:39:07like a physical display anymore.
0:39:09So really, the battery lasts forever now.
0:39:12And really, the biggest hit on the battery
0:39:15is on the iPad itself, like keeping the display always on
0:39:18and keeping sidecar always going on the iPad.
0:39:21That's the device that I'm finding myself
0:39:23charging most of the time.
0:39:24It's the iPad, not the Mac.
0:39:25The top half of your computer.
0:39:27If you plug the iPad into the laptop,
0:39:31will the laptop charge the iPad?
0:39:32It will, yes.
0:39:34OK, there you go.
0:39:35So you can kind of get your ratio in that way.
0:39:38I know this sounds weird, but it has
0:39:41been playing on my mind a lot, the fact
0:39:43that the battery life has improved.
0:39:45Because it's like, does the computer
0:39:48know there's no display?
0:39:49Like, it doesn't.
0:39:49It doesn't.
0:39:50I understand how battery life works.
0:39:52But it is weird to me.
0:39:56The computer still thinks there's an internal display.
0:39:59The computer still thinks there's a built-in display.
0:40:01But physically, I guess, electricity
0:40:05is not going in there.
0:40:07Right.
0:40:07So if you open System Information on the Mac,
0:40:12and you go to-- is there a display section in here?
0:40:16Graphic Displays, what does it say?
0:40:18Oh, it says Retina LCD.
0:40:21Oh, god.
0:40:22So it does think there's a display.
0:40:24It's not connected anymore, right?
0:40:24No, sorry.
0:40:24No, no, no, no, sorry.
0:40:26That's because I'm plugged into the studio display right now.
0:40:29Hold on.
0:40:29I have a screenshot of this in the article.
0:40:31I'm finding it for you.
0:40:32OK, I'm sorry.
0:40:33Let's see.
0:40:35But it does say built-in display.
0:40:37Let me scroll.
0:40:38Here it is.
0:40:39That is so weird.
0:40:40It says Color LCD, built-in liquid retina display.
0:40:43Yeah.
0:40:44It thinks it's there.
0:40:45Connection type, internal.
0:40:47No, it's not.
0:40:49It's not that, Apple.
0:40:50I'm sure you have, but phantom limb syndrome?
0:40:53Yeah, sure.
0:40:54The computer has that.
0:40:55If somebody loses a limb that they can sometimes still feel
0:40:58it or feel the pain, it's like your computer has that.
0:41:01There is no monitor, but it thinks there is one.
0:41:05The only thing that would be weird in that way
0:41:07is if the battery life hadn't improved.
0:41:09That would be even stranger, right?
0:41:11If it's still using the battery.
0:41:14Obviously, the display connector is still plugged directly
0:41:19into the motherboard, right?
0:41:21So the computer--
0:41:22Oh, it is?
0:41:23OK.
0:41:23Yeah, the computer sees the display connector
0:41:26being connected.
0:41:27But actually, the display connector, which is a cable,
0:41:30doesn't have a display attached to it.
0:41:32So that's why the computer says, well,
0:41:34I see that there is an internal display.
0:41:36Too bad that there's no actual pixels to drive anymore.
0:41:39Is the display cable just loose inside of there,
0:41:41just rattling around?
0:41:42No, it's not loose.
0:41:44Nothing is rattling around the computer.
0:41:46It's got its own slot.
0:41:48It's just-- it's placed there.
0:41:54I just unplugged the--
0:41:56There's another connector.
0:41:58Yeah, from the display itself.
0:42:00I bet if you unplugged it from the board,
0:42:02it would not think there's a display.
0:42:05I think that's the case.
0:42:07I also think that it would start to throw some serious errors.
0:42:11It may freak out.
0:42:12I think that's-- it's going to be like, no, you've
0:42:15got to bring me in.
0:42:17Something's terribly wrong.
0:42:19I did have the funny idea.
0:42:20You unplug this cable, and now you
0:42:22have pixels shooting out of the back of your computer that
0:42:26would be otherwise trapped on the display.
0:42:28You're just shooting out.
0:42:32Maybe not so much.
0:42:33It's been a long time since I've repaired computers for a living.
0:42:36Sometimes you forget how things work.
0:42:37It seems like it.
0:42:39OK, so the--
0:42:40Do I cut that, or do I leave it in?
0:42:41No one will know.
0:42:42You can do whatever you want.
0:42:44You've got-- obviously, you've embraced the power of magnets,
0:42:47and you're using this to mount an iPad
0:42:49to the top of the laptop when you
0:42:51want to use it like a laptop.
0:42:52Because obviously, the key part that we've not mentioned here
0:42:54is the inciting event for this was
0:42:57I want to use a keyboard and trackpad with my Vision Pro
0:43:01all the time.
0:43:01Yeah, the idea was--
0:43:04really, it all started because I saw that video,
0:43:07and I realized that headless MacBook Air could
0:43:12be the best input accessory for a Vision Pro.
0:43:15And then I didn't want to do it because it
0:43:16felt like a waste of, well, a good computer to just say,
0:43:20hey, I turned a perfectly fine computer into a Vision Pro
0:43:23keyboard and trackpad.
0:43:24Hey, I don't have a laptop anymore now.
0:43:27So that's why I didn't want to do it.
0:43:29It was only when I realized, oh, actually here,
0:43:32there is a bigger thing that I could try,
0:43:34which is to build a hybrid Apple computer so that I can
0:43:37have a laptop when I want a laptop.
0:43:40And I also can have a great input accessory for the Vision
0:43:43Pro, but also, it can be the convertible
0:43:47that Apple doesn't make.
0:43:49So the dream of I'm using a laptop,
0:43:51but then if I want to just grab the display, and it's a tablet,
0:43:54and I can work with the tablet on the couch or in bed,
0:43:58it's also the same, quote, unquote, "machine."
0:44:01Yeah, that's the exciting part for me.
0:44:03Not necessarily like, yeah, I made a Mac
0:44:07with a weird display.
0:44:09It's the fact that I can grab the display
0:44:12and use my iPad like that.
0:44:15I have a couple of more questions for you
0:44:17about the hardware before we maybe move on
0:44:19to some other areas, because I'm just intrigued about how
0:44:21this whole thing works.
0:44:23So yeah, you have the iPad, which
0:44:27is attached by magnets.
0:44:28Yes.
0:44:29Does it close?
0:44:30No.
0:44:30Can you close the--
0:44:32OK.
0:44:32No, no, it doesn't close.
0:44:33And I had a footnote, I think, in the story about this.
0:44:37Maybe in another timeline, there's
0:44:40a version of me that owns a 3D printer
0:44:43and knows how to make an alternative hinge
0:44:49system for this kind of product.
0:44:52But right now, no, it doesn't close flat
0:44:56on top of the keyboard.
0:44:57I bought from Amazon a $20 sleeve with two pockets,
0:45:04one for the computer and other for the iPad.
0:45:07And that's how I carry it around.
0:45:09Otherwise, they are two separate things
0:45:13that I need to store separately.
0:45:15Yeah.
0:45:15OK.
0:45:17You're using an 11-inch iPad Pro.
0:45:19Yes.
0:45:20Yeah.
0:45:21The 13 would visually fit better, right?
0:45:25Yes, it does.
0:45:26Visually, it looks much better.
0:45:28The 13--
0:45:29So why do you use the 11 over the 13?
0:45:30Because it was a combination of things.
0:45:32One, the 13-inch version was just too heavy,
0:45:36heavier than a MacBook Pro.
0:45:38And I was concerned that the magnets wouldn't hold.
0:45:41It was just too much.
0:45:42It was uncomfortable.
0:45:43But the second reason is part of a bigger sort of realization
0:45:46that I had lately that I enjoy using the 11-inch more.
0:45:50I understood something about myself
0:45:53over the past couple of months, which
0:45:54is I was using the 13-inch iPad more as a laptop
0:46:00than as a tablet.
0:46:01And what I love about the iPad is
0:46:02that I can use the device as a computer,
0:46:06but also as something that I can hold in my hands.
0:46:09And I just get more enjoyment out of the 11-inch
0:46:12as a tablet in my hands than the bigger version.
0:46:17Sure, multitasking is much better on the bigger one.
0:46:22But if I end up not using the 13-inch iPad
0:46:26because it's so uncomfortable to hold
0:46:28and impossible to use in portrait mode,
0:46:30then I'm losing the whole benefit of having an iPad, which
0:46:35is you can go from having a laptop to having a tablet.
0:46:39The 11-inch feels like a better compromise
0:46:41for what I enjoy, what I love about the iPad as a product.
0:46:47Does it fall over?
0:46:48It doesn't.
0:46:49It doesn't.
0:46:50If it were the 13, it probably would, right?
0:46:53Yeah, it didn't.
0:46:54But it was more--
0:46:55it didn't.
0:46:56With three magnets, it didn't.
0:46:58It doesn't fall over.
0:46:59But I was like, you know, it's just too heavy.
0:47:03And I just feel safer, and I enjoy the 11-inch more.
0:47:08But with three magnets in the back,
0:47:10it's a very strong connection.
0:47:12Yeah.
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0:49:45So we've talked about the hardware,
0:49:49but I think the hardware, while it gets people in the door
0:49:52to this article, the software, I think,
0:49:54is really more interesting in a lot of ways
0:49:58because you've kind of combined the Mac OS environment
0:50:02and the iPad OS environment in ways
0:50:04that I did not see coming as you've been working on this.
0:50:09What are some of the key components there,
0:50:12and where are the lines of what's a Mac and what's an iPad?
0:50:15Yeah, so the really interesting part for me
0:50:18is that I'm not using any particular hack or workaround
0:50:23to make this possible.
0:50:24It's all based on Apple software.
0:50:26It's all based-- in fact, I mean, the whole software side,
0:50:31nothing is new on that front.
0:50:33Sidecar has existed for nearly five years
0:50:36since iPad OS 13 and Mac OS Catalina.
0:50:40Nothing has changed there.
0:50:43It's still a way to extend your computer onto an iPad display.
0:50:47I'm just leveraging Sidecar when I want to use
0:50:50the Mac pad in Mac OS mode, so the iPad becomes a Mac OS
0:50:54display.
0:50:55And I'm using another Apple feature,
0:50:57which is universal control, when I want to use the Mac
0:51:01pad in iPad mode.
0:51:03In that case, I just need to swipe to the left,
0:51:06and the pointer appears on the iPad OS side of things.
0:51:10I think it's fascinating-- at least for me,
0:51:12maybe it also is for others--
0:51:14that I'm just leveraging existing Apple software.
0:51:17I'm not doing anything out of the already existing pieces
0:51:23of technology that Apple has here.
0:51:25The only thing I did is a shortcut
0:51:28to simplify the Sidecar connection.
0:51:32That's the only sort of maybe custom thing.
0:51:35Typically, you would have to start Sidecar
0:51:39from the Mac OS UI.
0:51:41But how can you do that when you cannot see the Mac OS UI
0:51:45anymore, because you don't have a display anymore?
0:51:48And so I found a way to initiate Sidecar from an iPad
0:51:52rather than from Mac OS.
0:51:54But it's still Sidecar.
0:51:57There's nothing special about it.
0:51:59The interesting part for me was realizing that I
0:52:06was able to use Mac OS and iPad OS at the same time,
0:52:10like on the same screen together.
0:52:12And that is possible because--
0:52:15and again, this has been the case for five years, I guess.
0:52:20I disabled Stage Manager on the iPad Pro.
0:52:24My thinking was, well, I have much better multitasking
0:52:29on the Mac now.
0:52:31Why do I need Stage Manager?
0:52:34When I want to grab my iPad to use it as a tablet,
0:52:37maybe old school Split View and Slide Over maybe
0:52:41would be more conducive to that sort of experience.
0:52:44And so I disabled Stage Manager.
0:52:46And one day, as I was testing the Mac pad, I swiped on screen,
0:52:51and I realized that Slide Over appeared.
0:52:54And that sort of was a turning point for the whole project.
0:52:58It sort of broke my brain.
0:53:00I was looking at Mac OS, but at the same time,
0:53:03I could use an iPad app in Slide Over on the same screen.
0:53:08And that's been something that I now do.
0:53:11It's become something that I now do on a regular basis,
0:53:15for example, listening to music.
0:53:17So I'm working on Mac OS.
0:53:19I'm using Obsidian.
0:53:20I'm using Safari.
0:53:21I'm using Shortcut on the Mac, which is better than on iOS.
0:53:28But if I want to listen to music,
0:53:29I actually listen to music via the music app for iPad OS
0:53:34in Slide Over mode.
0:53:36It's easier to invoke.
0:53:38It's easier to use.
0:53:39And because it's playing music through the speakers
0:53:42of the iPad, it sounds better than through the speakers
0:53:46of the MacBook Air.
0:53:48So the real story for me has been, obviously,
0:53:52from a physical standpoint, grabbing the display
0:53:55and using it as a tablet.
0:53:57But from a digital, from a software standpoint,
0:54:01has been having Mac OS and iPad OS together
0:54:05on screen at the same time.
0:54:08And you don't have any issues with when
0:54:10you're trying to reboot or anything like that?
0:54:13It all just works well?
0:54:15When you reboot, you have a couple of options.
0:54:17What I do is I VNC into the Mac.
0:54:23As I explained in the article, I disabled FileVault encryption.
0:54:27If you do that, if you turn off FileVault,
0:54:30you still have a login password, of course.
0:54:32But with FileVault turned off, the VNC background process
0:54:37can start up at login even after a reboot.
0:54:42So I can use screens to log in the first time after a reboot
0:54:47or, if you don't want to rely on that,
0:54:49I guess you could use a capture card with your Mac
0:54:53and your iPad Pro and basically connect over USB-C to HDMI
0:54:57and display the image in Orion for iPad, for example.
0:55:03But I prefer screens.
0:55:04I prefer the VNC method.
0:55:06And Sidecar has been very reliable for me.
0:55:11Actually, I'm working on a bit of an update to the story.
0:55:16There's something that I realized that, you know,
0:55:20there's a section in the article where I talk about
0:55:24the portable router that I use to establish a Wi-Fi network
0:55:30when I'm not home, so like when I'm in the car, for example.
0:55:35That's not needed. I need to clarify that.
0:55:39I don't know why it wasn't working for me two weeks ago,
0:55:42but I was able to work today in my car with the Mac pad
0:55:46just, you know, without the portable router.
0:55:50The devices just communicate over Wi-Fi.
0:55:54Without a Wi-Fi network,
0:55:55they establish a wireless connection between them,
0:55:58even if you're not on a Wi-Fi network.
0:56:01And then I just connected the Mac pad
0:56:03to my iPhone's personal hotspot for an Internet connection,
0:56:07and it was fine.
0:56:08So, yeah, that's something that I need to clarify
0:56:11in an update to the story.
0:56:13And I guess I will do an update to the story
0:56:17when I get a better display,
0:56:19when I get an OLED display for my Mac.
0:56:24-Any day now. Any day. -Any day now.
0:56:26And I think it's quite ironic that I will have
0:56:29an OLED MacBook years before
0:56:33an actual OLED MacBook from Apple.
0:56:38Wait, what's the MacBook Pro? Oh, it's microLED in it.
0:56:40Yeah, it's not OLED.
0:56:43What is going to happen
0:56:45when you install a beta on one of these computers?
0:56:48I won't. I won't. I won't.
0:56:50Don't do it.
0:56:52It feels very, very much like something
0:56:54that would just be broken from the middle of June
0:56:57until the middle of August.
0:56:59Yeah, realistically, what's going to happen here
0:57:01is I will keep a spare iPad on the beta cycle,
0:57:05and this will be my...
0:57:07But the beautiful thing here is that
0:57:09I can...
0:57:12I can have different displays for my computer, right?
0:57:17So I can keep the Mac computer on a stable version of Sonoma,
0:57:23and then I can just swap between displays.
0:57:26You know, I can use an 11-inch iPad Pro on 17.
0:57:31I can use a 13-inch iPad Pro on iPadOS 18.
0:57:35It doesn't matter. As long as Sidecar exists,
0:57:38the display will work.
0:57:42And so I am free to experiment with different displays
0:57:45running different versions of the operating system,
0:57:48as long as I don't install the beta on the macOS side,
0:57:53which I never do. So I think I will be fine.
0:57:56Entirely true.
0:57:58But you have a studio display, too, at the moment, right?
0:58:01Like... Yeah.
0:58:02Uh-huh. That's bolted to your wall.
0:58:05Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:58:07I mean, I've heard you say you might get --
0:58:08Why would you get rid of it?
0:58:09Like, what's it harming to have it?
0:58:12I mean, it's not harming anyone right now.
0:58:17Keep an eye on it.
0:58:20I'm wondering, like, is it necessary?
0:58:22You know, especially with the Vision Pro
0:58:24and, you know, having, like,
0:58:28a virtual giant display in front of me.
0:58:31I only really ever work at the studio display
0:58:34when I'm recording podcasts,
0:58:36and I'm wondering, do I have to keep a monitor on this wall?
0:58:42Do I even need -- Like, now that --
0:58:44See, when I bought this furniture and this display,
0:58:50the Vision Pro didn't exist.
0:58:52I had no idea I would have a headless MacBook.
0:58:55I had no idea that someday I would use macOS
0:58:59on a virtual display.
0:59:00This furniture is from two years ago.
0:59:04Now I'm wondering,
0:59:07do I still need this studio display on my wall?
0:59:11And something else that has happened over the past year --
0:59:14I bought a really nice table in the living room,
0:59:18and I have a really nice couch,
0:59:21and I enjoy working in the living room
0:59:24because every afternoon, I'm home alone.
0:59:26Sylvia is at dance school, and I'm like,
0:59:30"I'm just gonna stay here on the couch with the dogs
0:59:33or at this very, very big and comfortable living-room table
0:59:38that we have.
0:59:40Do I need this giant desk with a physical monitor
0:59:43bolted to the wall?"
0:59:44So that's what I'm thinking about.
0:59:45But for now, it's staying.
0:59:48-I guess it depends on --
0:59:50Like, obviously, podcasts are a lot of your work,
0:59:52and they're a lot of work in hours, right, as well.
0:59:55Like, not even just a proportion.
0:59:57And I would just wonder how comfortable you would be
1:00:01to either have -- to be looking down at the laptop
1:00:04for the time that you're recording
1:00:06or to have the Vision Pro on, which I don't really think --
1:00:09I mean, I've tried it.
1:00:09I don't really think it's realistic right now.
1:00:11It's, like, too big and weird to record podcasts
1:00:14with a Vision Pro on, I find.
1:00:16So, like, even if it was just for that reason,
1:00:20I see there being sense in it, but...
1:00:23-Yeah, which is why, for now,
1:00:24I'm not touching this part of my house.
1:00:28For now, this is staying, and we'll reassess maybe next year.
1:00:32-And also, it's one of those things, right,
1:00:34where, like, we all do this.
1:00:36We all change up what we use and how we use our products,
1:00:40because it's what we do for a living.
1:00:43We have to keep trying and finding new things.
1:00:45It's, like, it's part -- We talk about this.
1:00:47Like, we all try and mix stuff up as much as we can,
1:00:50so we have the broadest knowledge possible,
1:00:53and so it keeps us relevant.
1:00:55And, you know, you wouldn't want to get rid of that display now
1:00:58for then in, like, the end of the year.
1:01:01Something's happened, and you're like,
1:01:03"Oh, this is actually now the best way."
1:01:05Like, because the MacPad for you
1:01:07is, like, the best thing you use right now.
1:01:08It's not going to be the best thing forever.
1:01:10Like, something else could happen or come along,
1:01:12and you'll be like, "Oh, here we go."
1:01:14Like, if Apple does the thing
1:01:16and, like, lets you put Mac OS on an iPad,
1:01:19I mean, now we're into new territory again, you know?
1:01:21Like, we never truly know what's going to happen.
1:01:24-But even if they did -- So, this is what I was thinking.
1:01:26So, say that iPad OS 18 enables Hypervisor.
1:01:29You can create VMs.
1:01:31You could replicate a lot of the software stuff
1:01:34you're doing with this, right? Like, that GIF --
1:01:36-Oh, it would be even better than what I'm doing now.
1:01:39-Yeah, because then the Mac would just be an app in iPad OS.
1:01:43And that GIF of you running Mac OS
1:01:45and then you do the slide-over to get to iPad apps,
1:01:49that was the moment I think a lot of people lost their minds.
1:01:52But it would make the software better,
1:01:56but then you'd have, like, the hardware question, right?
1:01:58Like, "Okay, well, that's great,
1:02:00but then I'm the Vision Pro keyboard trackpad thing,
1:02:04which is how all this started."
1:02:06That's not solved, again, right?
1:02:08Like, you've done something here
1:02:10that I don't think Apple's ever really ever going to do.
1:02:12-Yep. -And that's because
1:02:15it's a combination of hardware and software.
1:02:17And if they just said, "Hey, you can now run a virtual Mac
1:02:20on your iPad," that only gets you part of the way there.
1:02:22-Exactly, exactly.
1:02:24Like, it still doesn't fix the fact
1:02:25that when you look at this headless computer,
1:02:29it's a very nice keyboard and trackpad for the Vision Pro.
1:02:33-Well, it's like, "Unless the new Magic keyboard for iPad
1:02:41works with the Vision Pro, like, via Bluetooth or something."
1:02:44-I mean, if they did that and added virtual Mac support
1:02:48on the iPad Pro, then, yes, Apple has met you where you are.
1:02:52-Which, I mean, let's say, like, if they do both of those things,
1:02:58I don't know what reality we slipped into.
1:03:00-Yeah, the one where Federico is king.
1:03:04"Well, I'll be learning Italian."
1:03:06-Steven said a second ago, like, mentioned that you made,
1:03:10like, GIF, "May people be crazy," right?
1:03:11Like, seeing Mac OS and iPad OS working together as one,
1:03:17which I'm interested in, what has been the reaction
1:03:21to the story in, like, the many places that it has found itself,
1:03:26both in and out of your kind of, like, direct orbit?
1:03:31-Yeah, so there's two things I want to say here.
1:03:32The first one is, from a pure numeric standpoint,
1:03:38the reaction has been wild,
1:03:40and I can tell you that numbers alone,
1:03:44it's performed better than launch day of an iOS review
1:03:49that I do every year, and that review does really well.
1:03:53This one, I think, because it has gone beyond the usual --
1:03:58I told you guys, like, the usual bubble of websites
1:04:02that may be linked to the iOS review,
1:04:04people who talk about the iOS review,
1:04:07it's been on the front page of Hacker News,
1:04:10for better or worse.
1:04:11It's been on the Apple subreddit,
1:04:13and it's been picked up by other publications
1:04:15that typically do not cover, you know,
1:04:18Federico and his iOS and iPad OS review.
1:04:21So, from a numbers standpoint,
1:04:23it's gone well beyond my expectations.
1:04:28And, obviously, people have loved it.
1:04:29You know, there's been, you know,
1:04:32a few critics here and there, but, by and large,
1:04:36I think it's been very heartwarming
1:04:40to see all the comments from people.
1:04:42The second thing I want to say
1:04:43is that I've seen some comments here and there,
1:04:46seeing that this is a stunt, and I need to clarify something.
1:04:50I don't think I made it clear enough.
1:04:54Folks, this is my main computer now.
1:04:58Like, I did this to my primary,
1:05:03to my main M2 MacBook Air.
1:05:06Like, I did this to my own computer.
1:05:08I didn't buy a special computer for this.
1:05:11I did this myself, to my own computer,
1:05:13and I am now this thing on my desk with the magnets.
1:05:17This is what I'm using,
1:05:19and I plan on using it going forward.
1:05:21I plan on coming to WWDC with this thing.
1:05:24Like, this is my actual--
1:05:26- Can you imagine trying to put that through TSA?
1:05:29(all laughing)
1:05:31- This is my actual main computer now.
1:05:34This is not a stunt.
1:05:35If it is a stunt, I'm living a stunt, I guess.
1:05:38Like, this is my thing now.
1:05:40It's my primary machine.
1:05:43- I did, I had this moment when,
1:05:44'cause you sent us the article a couple of days in advance
1:05:47to just look through as you were getting ready to publish,
1:05:50and I'm going through the article,
1:05:51and I'm like, uh-huh, uh-huh,
1:05:52and I'm waiting for the moment,
1:05:53and the moment doesn't come,
1:05:55of the computer that you used for this, right?
1:06:00And then it dawns on me, it's like,
1:06:02oh, that's Federico's laptop.
1:06:04- Yeah, yeah.
1:06:06- 'Cause I could see a scenario in which you were like,
1:06:08I wanna do this thing, I'm gonna get another laptop
1:06:12to do it on, because you could have destroyed
1:06:15your computer, right?
1:06:16- Yeah, oh yeah. - He just went for it.
1:06:18He just went for it, he YOLOed it.
1:06:19And then I was like, oh God, oh God, he did it.
1:06:23Do you still have all the pieces, right?
1:06:25- I do, in a plastic bag.
1:06:27- Yeah, that's probably for the best.
1:06:28You never know, right, you wanna keep it.
1:06:30But yeah, I feel like,
1:06:32I know that you're not stunting on everyone.
1:06:37- Yeah, no, no, no.
1:06:39- But like, I think people see this kind of stuff,
1:06:42and it's like, we're content creators,
1:06:45and sometimes it's as--
1:06:47- Oh, you see, but there's a difference between,
1:06:50oh, I spent $20,000 buying
1:06:55the most expensive Mac Pro configuration you can get.
1:06:59And then, obviously, you make the video,
1:07:01and then you return the product, and you, you know.
1:07:03Here, I actually destroyed my own computer,
1:07:07and I built-- - Full commitment.
1:07:09- There's no going back for me at this point.
1:07:13And see, I told you, like, my philosophy here is,
1:07:18I do these things because I like them, for me, personally.
1:07:25And if they make for a good story, even better.
1:07:29Because it means I was able to turn a passion of mine,
1:07:33a fun thing I did, into something that also made money,
1:07:37but also something that, you know,
1:07:40and this is gonna sound so corny and cheesy, but I'm sorry.
1:07:43Something that people will remember me by,
1:07:45which is something that I always keep in mind.
1:07:49And, you know, to leave something for other people.
1:07:53And so, that's why--
1:07:55- I don't want your legacy to be the Mac pad.
1:07:58- I'd say it's fine, it's fine.
1:07:59- I want your legacy to be your iOS reviews.
1:08:01- That's what I want for you. - No, no.
1:08:05But no, that's the point.
1:08:06Legacy should be everything.
1:08:07Like, it should be all the crazy, stupid things
1:08:11I've done over the years.
1:08:12It's, you know, you get the whole package.
1:08:14- It's a body of work.
1:08:14It's a body of work. - Yes, yes.
1:08:17So, that's how I see it.
1:08:20Like, I do these things because I have fun,
1:08:22because I wanna push the conversation sometimes.
1:08:27And if it makes for a good story, great.
1:08:31It means I like my job.
1:08:34- This episode of Connected is made possible by Squarespace,
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1:09:04I got to start with a beautiful template,
1:09:06use Fluid Engine, which is this next-generation
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1:09:11I can drag and drop things in from the desktop or on mobile
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1:09:18And if you have a store, David's not doing that,
1:09:21but if you have an online store,
1:09:23you can sell physical and digital products.
1:09:25We've done this, really, I've found in the past.
1:09:27In fact, on Connected a few years ago,
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1:09:31I did all that on Squarespace.
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1:10:17- Get ready for MacPad 2 powered by the M3.
1:10:23(laughing)
1:10:24- No, no, no, no, no.
1:10:27- MacPad 2 powered by M3 MacBook Air
1:10:30and upcoming OLED iPad Pro.
1:10:32- No, MacPad 2 is just powered by OLED iPad Pro.
1:10:35I don't want to get an M3 Air.
1:10:38- Well, have you heard the news about Wi-Fi 6E?
1:10:41- Well, for now I was gonna add.
1:10:43- That's interesting.
1:10:44I know you're all about Wi-Fi 6E these days.
1:10:46This machine's got that in it, which I bet is pretty good.
1:10:49- And it's also, or so I hear,
1:10:51the best consumer laptop for AI.
1:10:53- Oh, on the web.
1:10:54(laughing)
1:10:56- Oh my gosh, yeah.
1:10:57- Let's back up, let's back up, Stephen.
1:10:58- That uses Canva, let's go.
1:11:00- What is the new MacBook Air?
1:11:01- It is the previous MacBook Air,
1:11:05but now with M3 instead of M2.
1:11:08So 13 inch and 15 inch, same four colors,
1:11:11although your beloved Midnight
1:11:13now comes with the anti-fingerprint coating
1:11:16that the space black MacBook Pro enjoys.
1:11:18- Let me tell you, Stephen, all right,
1:11:20the people that get that one, they're weaklings.
1:11:24All right, if you can't deal with the fingerprints,
1:11:26you don't deserve Midnight.
1:11:28- Wow.
1:11:29- That's what I say.
1:11:29- Wow.
1:11:30- It's like, what is that thing?
1:11:31If you can't take my worst, you don't deserve my best?
1:11:36That's how I feel about this, all right?
1:11:38Midnight is great, it deserves the fingerprints, it's fine.
1:11:42- Okay, so it's the same MacBook Air we all know and love.
1:11:47There is one change here that is also coming
1:11:51to the 14 inch M3 MacBook Pro,
1:11:54the one that doesn't have the USB-C port on the right side,
1:11:57just the base M3.
1:11:58It can run dual, that's two, external displays
1:12:03if the lid is closed.
1:12:06- Yeah.
1:12:07- Which I think is great, that's a good improvement.
1:12:09It was a very common complaint, they fixed it now,
1:12:11that's fantastic.
1:12:13- Why did they wait though?
1:12:15- I don't know.
1:12:15- For the people that bought the MacBook Pro?
1:12:17- Well, they're gonna fix it now, it's fine.
1:12:18- They're gonna fix it now, but like, you know--
1:12:21- It's a speed bump, I think,
1:12:24in terms of the Apple Silicon transition,
1:12:25like it's not the end of the world.
1:12:27- Yeah, like I understand what,
1:12:29I feel like I understand they did ship,
1:12:31but I feel like what, it's like they just fixed it
1:12:33last week, like, oh, finally, we just got it over the line.
1:12:37- Maybe, I don't even think it's in the current
1:12:39Sonoma Beta, which, I don't know.
1:12:43Anyways, I've actually only had one of those,
1:12:45I've only had time with only one of those M3 MacBook Pros.
1:12:48It's kind of weird, you look down the side,
1:12:49it's like, oh, you're missing a USB-C port, there you go.
1:12:53A couple other things that changed when this got announced,
1:12:56the M1 MacBook Air is no longer for sale
1:13:01and like, we salute our friend on the way out the door,
1:13:05because the M1 Air, such a good machine,
1:13:08I think it was really the, really the,
1:13:11like, this is Apple Silicon, it is here, right?
1:13:15It came out with the Touch Bar MacBook Pro and the Mac Mini,
1:13:18but the M1 Air, to a lot of people,
1:13:20experienced Apple Silicon for the first time.
1:13:23And honestly, I think it was one of the best improvements,
1:13:25'cause that Intel MacBook Air was like,
1:13:27loud and hot all the time.
1:13:28- It also means, Stephen, that you have lost
1:13:31one of your flexes for the annual, the 2024 annual picks.
1:13:36- Oh no, what is it? - Really?
1:13:38- You said in the flexes, the M1 MacBook Air
1:13:41is still on sale at the end of the year.
1:13:43- Oh no. - Whoops.
1:13:46- Wow, that happened fast.
1:13:48- That did happen fast.
1:13:50- So this has been like a 14-year design, right?
1:13:54- It's red in the document, I just looked.
1:13:57- That's why Federico was asking about where it was.
1:14:00- Yeah, good call.
1:14:03- So they introduced this design of the MacBook Air
1:14:05in like 2010, and like, I feel like,
1:14:08while they tweaked it, it was realistically the same, right?
1:14:11- Really, like '08, like really,
1:14:13the MacBook Air has always been wedge-shaped, you know?
1:14:15- Yeah, but it had the little drop-down door.
1:14:17- Yeah, no, it was weird, that was a weird computer.
1:14:19- 'Cause it feels like, really, all that changed
1:14:21from the 2010 to now was they got rid
1:14:24of the silver bezels around them.
1:14:27- Yeah, I mean, the exact design came out in 2018,
1:14:30so that's what, six years?
1:14:31I mean, still around for a long time.
1:14:33There's a thing on the verge of like,
1:14:34I already missed the wedge shape,
1:14:35it's like, that's fine, I get it,
1:14:37but the M2 design language, the MacBook Air is so good,
1:14:42and now, like, as good as the deal is the M1 MacBook Air was
1:14:47at $999 or $899 for education, the M2 Air is even better.
1:14:52Like, that is such a good computer,
1:14:54and you get MagSafe on the cheapest laptop now,
1:14:59which frees up one of your ports all the time.
1:15:01So all that sort of got shifted around,
1:15:04and that's great, 13 and 15-inch are both now,
1:15:09M3, ready to go, and I think this sort of,
1:15:14I mean, we'll see, like, there's still some M2 stuff
1:15:16floating around out there, like the Mac Mini,
1:15:19but I think this closes the chapter probably
1:15:22on some of the weird timelines we saw
1:15:25with Apple's notebook line, 'cause like,
1:15:29like my, I have an M2 Pro, MacBook Pro,
1:15:32it was for sale less than a year,
1:15:34because they, or about a year,
1:15:36'cause it was like the beginning of '23,
1:15:38and then they had the October event
1:15:40when they went from M2 to M3.
1:15:41Like, the M2 13-inch MacBook Air was on sale
1:15:45for a long time, the 15-inch kind of came out mid-cycle.
1:15:49I think this probably evens all that out from here on out.
1:15:52I do wonder why we haven't had an M3 Mac Mini.
1:15:57That's now kind of the odd machine out, but.
1:16:00- I don't think they, no, I don't, yeah.
1:16:02- You think they noticed?
1:16:03Like, oh no, it's all for sale.
1:16:04- It's like, you know, Mac Mini, we love you, but.
1:16:07- Yeah, and I think it's fine for the Mac Mini
1:16:09to kind of be step behind, also the step behind
1:16:14for the, on the Mac Studio, right?
1:16:18There's still some odd stuff, and my point is,
1:16:20I think the notebook line now kind of makes sense again,
1:16:23and I think this is great.
1:16:25I mean, the MacBook Air's awesome,
1:16:27and it just keeps getting better and better.
1:16:29- Now do that to the iPad instead.
1:16:31- Now, any day now. - Well, maybe next week,
1:16:32right, I mean, I guess, right, like next week, hopefully.
1:16:36Like, I don't think there's gonna be an event
1:16:38that doesn't make any,
1:16:39it doesn't really make any sense for me to have one.
1:16:42Even if these iPads are really great,
1:16:43I think they could kind of just press release it,
1:16:45but we'll see, you never know.
1:16:47I just, I will just underscore what Stephen's saying,
1:16:51like $999 starting price for the M2 MacBook Air is so good.
1:16:56Like, I use one every day, so just,
1:16:59Federico uses half the one every day.
1:17:00- Same.
1:17:01- Not same.
1:17:03- I use, I use a. - Me and you are not the same.
1:17:06- I've used $500 worth of it, at least.
1:17:09- I have $400 in a plastic bag,
1:17:14and the rest I use, but with magnets.
1:17:17I adore my MacBook Air.
1:17:19Like, I love it so much, I started putting stickers on it.
1:17:22Which is a thing I have not done.
1:17:26I've not done it in a long time,
1:17:27but like, me and this MacBook Air,
1:17:29we're in a long-term committed relationship.
1:17:31Like, I'm not getting rid of that thing for ages.
1:17:34Like, I saw this M3 once, like, oh, it looks really great,
1:17:37but like, I'm not even nearly tempted,
1:17:38'cause like, the things that it has seem great,
1:17:41but are not for me.
1:17:42Like, I don't need an M3,
1:17:44I don't need two external displays,
1:17:47and I don't need Wi-Fi 6E,
1:17:48'cause I don't, I do not wanna upgrade the hardware,
1:17:52and I don't really need it.
1:17:53But at some point, I will.
1:17:55Like, in a few years down the line,
1:17:56I think I will go to like, Wi-Fi 6E or Wi-Fi 7
1:17:59or something at home,
1:18:01and then it would make more sense for me to do this,
1:18:03but maybe time M4, M5 comes around,
1:18:06I might be more interested.
1:18:07But yeah, I just, the M2 MacBook Air is just like, so great.
1:18:11And now to have that in 9.99,
1:18:13and then to have the improved one at 10.99,
1:18:16I think is awesome.
1:18:18And it's just, I'm happy that like,
1:18:20now the MacBook Air looks one way,
1:18:22like it's just easier to understand the product.
1:18:25So yeah, pretty, really cool.
1:18:27They've done the thing that we wanted them to do.
1:18:29I think, as Steven would attest,
1:18:31faster than we thought they would do it, right?
1:18:34To make the M2 MacBook Air just like, the MacBook Air,
1:18:37and that there isn't anything else below it.
1:18:40I would like to read from eWorld.social,
1:18:45where Steven Hackett says,
1:18:47"I'm loving having a 14-inch MacBook Pro as my only machine,
1:18:51but I do miss carrying a MacBook Air,
1:18:53as I did when I had a Mac Studio."
1:18:55It's happening, boys, stand by.
1:19:00The key part of this sentence is that "but."
1:19:03See, that's, you look at those three letters
1:19:06and you know what's gonna happen.
1:19:08Yep. Yeah.
1:19:08The buts have begun.
1:19:10Yeah.
1:19:11We all know what that means.
1:19:12We all know what that means, any day now.
1:19:16So Steven, did you buy a MacBook Air yet?
1:19:18No.
1:19:20Okay.
1:19:21So why did you type those three letters?
1:19:22Yeah, what is the "but" for?
1:19:25Just had a feeling, you know?
1:19:27Feelings aren't real unless you put them on social media.
1:19:29Yeah.
1:19:30Yep.
1:19:31Well, we'll see what happens there.
1:19:33I'm still waiting for the Mac Studio whenever they do that,
1:19:36but again, I still hope it's a little bit later on this year,
1:19:38but I do hope that they do it. I bet it's WBC.
1:19:41Or maybe that's one of those things they do
1:19:43like the week before to kind of clear out the pipes.
1:19:46'Cause that's the computer that has my name on it,
1:19:49to replace my M1 MacBook Pro that I use for recording.
1:19:53I think it'll be a nice upgrade for me,
1:19:55and then I can have a bit of stability for years,
1:19:58I think, with that machine.
1:19:59Will you miss the touch bar?
1:20:00I don't have a touch bar.
1:20:03You have an M1 MacBook Pro?
1:20:05Then I don't have that.
1:20:07I have something else.
1:20:08I have the 14-inch MacBook Pro.
1:20:10That doesn't have a touch bar.
1:20:12Oh, so you have an M1 Pro or Macs, not the base?
1:20:15Sure.
1:20:16Not the base one.
1:20:17What are you talking about, Steven?
1:20:18The base M1 MacBook Pro had a touch bar,
1:20:21and then the other ones didn't.
1:20:23Yeah, but you know I didn't buy that.
1:20:24I don't remember.
1:20:26Yeah, but you're just like, you should intuit that,
1:20:28that I didn't buy that computer.
1:20:30I didn't remember.
1:20:31So for all this time,
1:20:31you thought Mike was using a touch bar?
1:20:33Maybe.
1:20:34I'm just sitting there.
1:20:34Woo, here we go, some emoji.
1:20:36He's just swiping over there.
1:20:38He's just touching away, touching the bar.
1:20:40There was also some new iPhone cases and Apple Watch bands.
1:20:46They kind of do this on some seasons.
1:20:49Noticeably no fine woven updates.
1:20:53It was all the silicon stuff got updated, so.
1:20:56Yeah, I mean, what do you expect?
1:20:57To be fair to fine woven,
1:20:59would they update the leather
1:21:01and these mid-cycle refreshes?
1:21:03I don't know.
1:21:04Oh, that's a good question.
1:21:06'Cause I'm thinking they didn't.
1:21:08Like that the leather was pretty consistent
1:21:11and so like in colors and stuff, so.
1:21:13Michael Hurley coming out of this podcast episode,
1:21:16straight up defending the touch bar and fine woven cases.
1:21:21I'm going for the populous vote now, that's me.
1:21:24Fine woven touch bar, that's my platform.
1:21:27Cool, okay.
1:21:29I'm gonna build on that now.
1:21:30New iPhone cases.
1:21:33I want more ultra bands, that's what I want.
1:21:36I like the one, the trail loop.
1:21:38I would like more color options.
1:21:40Yeah, they didn't do it last time either.
1:21:43They've only updated the bands when there's a new phone.
1:21:45And so maybe that's just how it's gonna be.
1:21:49Okay, I can't find what Apple did in 2023
1:21:53because looking for like new iPhone cases
1:21:55on Google is useless.
1:21:57Surely the venerable Mac stories would have it.
1:22:01I put that in my search and it was not helpful.
1:22:04We failed, we failed.
1:22:08New iPhone 14 Silicon cases.
1:22:10So it doesn't look like they did leather last year.
1:22:13I just searched new case on Mac stories
1:22:15and was taken to March 7th, 2023,
1:22:19Apple announces yellow iPhone 14 and 14 plus.
1:22:22So we didn't get a new phone color
1:22:24and they had Silicon cases only.
1:22:26Silicon cases only.
1:22:26So maybe this is not a fine woven situation.
1:22:30No, maybe not, maybe not.
1:22:31Boy, they're bad.
1:22:33I don't think the fine woven
1:22:34is enjoying its stay in the sun.
1:22:36Did you see the Joanna Stern thing?
1:22:39Yeah, I saw that.
1:22:40Yeah, that looked real bad, looked real bad.
1:22:43It looked pretty gross.
1:22:45I'm gonna, maybe this will be a pick for September.
1:22:49I don't think they will do any more fine woven cases.
1:22:52But do you think they will replace it with something
1:22:54or do you think that it's like--
1:22:56Something like, yeah, I said it's a lot like a fake leather
1:22:59that it's not called fake leather,
1:23:01but something like a fine, I don't know, fine surface.
1:23:06I don't know how to call it, but yeah, not this material.
1:23:09I think that they just, if I was them,
1:23:12just do Silicon, like just leave it.
1:23:14Or maybe that, or maybe that.
1:23:15Yeah, I think the money they make on those higher end cases
1:23:19is pretty hard to turn down there.
1:23:21Yeah, but like, I don't know,
1:23:25make Silicon Pro or something, you know,
1:23:28and put metal buttons on the Silicon case
1:23:29to put texture on it or something, you know.
1:23:32Make hard plastic cases and whichever will enjoy it.
1:23:37But yeah, but I don't know.
1:23:39I don't see it, but we'll see.
1:23:42Maybe if nobody's buying fine woven,
1:23:44then there's no money to miss.
1:23:46It's true.
1:23:47I think that does it for this week.
1:23:50If you want to find links to the stuff we spoke about,
1:23:52head on over to the website, relay.fm/ungeniust.
1:23:56Good grief, that's a different podcast.
1:24:00Amazing, amazing.
1:24:02Go over to relay.fm/connected/492.
1:24:07There's also a link to join and get Connected Pro,
1:24:11which is a longer ad-free version of the show
1:24:13that we do each and every week.
1:24:15Members also get access to a couple of members only podcasts,
1:24:19a newsletter, the Discord, lots of great stuff
1:24:21waiting for you with a relay membership.
1:24:24Go check it out.
1:24:26You can find us online.
1:24:27You can find Federico at maxstories.net
1:24:30where he's the editor-in-chief.
1:24:32And I think now lead hardware hacker at Max Stories.
1:24:37Yep.
1:24:39Modstories.net, you can go check that out.
1:24:42Don't go to that URL.
1:24:42I don't know what it is.
1:24:43I'm going there, I'm going there, Mod Stories.
1:24:47Safari can't find server.
1:24:49Okay, well, someone could buy it
1:24:51and point it at the MacPad story, I guess.
1:24:54You can find Federico on social media at Vatici on Threads
1:24:59and Vatici at maxstories.net over on Mastodon.
1:25:02You can find Mike's work all over relay.fm.
1:25:05He's on a whole bunch of shows.
1:25:06He also does amazing work over at Cortex Brand.
1:25:09You can follow him as imike@mike.social on Mastodon
1:25:13or on Threads as imike.
1:25:15You can find my writing on 512pixels.net
1:25:18and I co-host Mac Power Users here on relay.fm
1:25:21each and every Sunday.
1:25:22You can follow me. And a genius.
1:25:24And a genius every other Tuesday.
1:25:26(laughing)
1:25:28I don't know where that came from.
1:25:31It really, of all of them chose to pick.
1:25:32I know, I know.
1:25:33That was the strangest one.
1:25:35That was the strangest one.
1:25:37It's a great show, you go check it out.
1:25:38Each episode's like nine minutes long.
1:25:40Yeah.
1:25:41You can follow me on Threads as ismh86
1:25:44or on Mastodon ismh@eworld.social.
1:25:49I'd like to thank our sponsors this week
1:25:51for making the show possible.
1:25:52ShipStation, NetSuite, and Squarespace.
1:25:55And until next time, say goodbye.
1:25:58I do that too.
1:25:59Cheerio.
1:26:00Bye, y'all.
1:26:01[BLANK_AUDIO]