492: What is the But For?


00:00:00   [MUSIC]

00:00:07   >> From relay FM, this is Connected, episode 492.

00:00:11   Today's show is brought to you by ShipStation, NetSuit, and Squarespace.

00:00:15   I'm one of your co-hosts, Federico Vittucci, and

00:00:17   it's my pleasure to introduce to the show Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:20   Hello, Steven.

00:00:21   >> Hello, Federico.

00:00:23   >> Hi, how are you?

00:00:24   >> I'm good, what about you?

00:00:26   >> I am sad about Nintendo emulation, but otherwise, I'm good.

00:00:29   >> Yeah, that was the pro show, second week in a row.

00:00:33   >> Yes.

00:00:34   >> It's a whole scene over there.

00:00:36   >> And it's already over, so that topic is done for, yeah.

00:00:40   >> Well, I mean, Nintendo will sue somebody else, it's inevitable.

00:00:42   We're also joined by Mr. Mike Hurley.

00:00:47   >> Effie.

00:00:47   >> No, no, are we still doing the Italian?

00:00:51   >> Yeah, teach Italian is coming up later on in the show.

00:00:54   >> Yeah, we're going straight to the L.

00:00:57   >> That's a lot of letters, whoa, we skipped, we skipped, okay.

00:01:02   It's from F to L, that's how the Italian alphabet were.

00:01:05   >> No, no, no, no, what got to that in a few minutes, don't worry.

00:01:10   I want to see if you did your homework.

00:01:12   So, but before we do that- >> We have homework?

00:01:15   >> I don't remember.

00:01:15   >> Yes, yes, we have follow up before we do that.

00:01:20   >> We do, we do have follow up.

00:01:23   I call this section Apple can't stop talking about secrets.

00:01:27   >> That's a nice name.

00:01:28   >> [LAUGH]

00:01:31   >> There was a shareholder meeting.

00:01:33   I really don't pay attention to those because there's always like people angry

00:01:35   about something and then Tim Cook says something spicy like,

00:01:38   if you don't care about the environment, get out of the stock or whatever he said.

00:01:41   During the shareholder meeting this year,

00:01:44   Cook apparently said that Apple will break new ground in generative AI in 2024.

00:01:49   Quote, we believe it will unlock transformative opportunities for our users.

00:01:56   >> Was that a pun, do you think?

00:01:58   >> Transformative?

00:01:59   >> Maybe.

00:02:01   >> Do you think Tim Cook does puns?

00:02:02   >> I don't know.

00:02:04   I feel like Tim Cook would do them, but you don't know how we are right now.

00:02:09   And everyone just sits and looks at him, and he's just like gives you nothing back.

00:02:14   So you're not really sure if he's punning you or not, you know?

00:02:18   I can see that too.

00:02:20   Anyways, this made me think, Tim Cook talks about secret things all the time.

00:02:24   I have two examples of Tim Cook and one for Jeff Williams.

00:02:28   So way back in 2013, before the Apple Watch was announced,

00:02:34   I think the most famous one is Tim Cook was actually asked about AR glasses and

00:02:38   he sort of, maybe that's where he got the idea for the Vision Pro.

00:02:41   But he just sort of shuffled that off and then was talking about health sensors and

00:02:45   said the wrist is a natural place, and a year later we got the Apple Watch.

00:02:50   Clearly was on his mind, and it came out.

00:02:52   Jeff Williams, just a couple of years later in 2015,

00:02:58   said that the car was the ultimate mobile device.

00:03:01   Apple's car isn't, but at the time, I guess that was going on.

00:03:06   And then one that we talked about on the show just a couple of years ago,

00:03:13   Tim Cook had an interview with Kara Swisher for the New York Times.

00:03:17   I was going to read this quote.

00:03:19   You and I are having a great conversation right now.

00:03:22   Arguably, it could be even better if we were able to augment our discussion with

00:03:26   charts or other things to appear.

00:03:28   Remember that, AR charts?

00:03:29   Ironically, numbers, not a native vision OS app.

00:03:35   So you're running that in iPad compatibility mode, sadly.

00:03:38   But yeah, they talk about what's on their minds a lot more than,

00:03:43   I think, you know, it happens every couple of years, you don't think about it.

00:03:46   But when you sit down and start Googling around, it's like, oh,

00:03:50   every couple of years, they say something that maybe they shouldn't.

00:03:54   I feel like you've reached a new level with your history database or something.

00:04:01   Because I feel like for the last three weeks,

00:04:03   you've done a very good job of bringing in history.

00:04:06   Has something changed?

00:04:08   Are you doing something different?

00:04:09   We're using Notion instead of Google Docs.

00:04:12   Yeah, but that's not going to change, like, yes, we are doing that for the show,

00:04:14   but that's not going to change.

00:04:16   That's a causation correlation, causation correlation situation.

00:04:22   But no, I don't know.

00:04:24   I mean, when I read this, I remembered the wrist is the natural place.

00:04:28   And we just talked about the cars, maybe that was on my mind.

00:04:32   What a great, just out of context, Tim Cook, the wrist is a natural place.

00:04:38   Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty natural place.

00:04:40   Yeah, I mean, look, they've already said it.

00:04:42   I think they're actually smart.

00:04:43   Like, they do this every now and again.

00:04:45   But I think the AI thing is particularly smart.

00:04:47   Just tell everyone you're doing it.

00:04:49   Like, if you're doing it, just tell everyone you're doing it.

00:04:52   They're not saying what they're doing exactly.

00:04:54   Clearly, WWDC will feature AI stuff.

00:04:57   And so, however much of that they do is whatever they do.

00:05:00   But I think it is best for them right now to let the world know

00:05:07   that they have something cooking.

00:05:08   Because, you know, if you just look at it on the face of it,

00:05:12   their main competitors are already pretty advanced in this.

00:05:16   And they've done not really a lot of the same kinds of stuff anyway.

00:05:22   Mike, do you want to take this next one?

00:05:24   No, because I don't like the slander.

00:05:27   OK.

00:05:29   Last time, or a previous time, I don't even know.

00:05:33   It was last time.

00:05:33   We talked about LaTeX.

00:05:35   And you were very upset about how it was pronounced.

00:05:39   Matt Van Ormer-- excuse me, Dr. Matt Van Ormer, one of our moderators

00:05:44   in Discord, somehow remembered that you talked about this on episode 105

00:05:49   of Cortex and pronounced it correctly.

00:05:52   What's funny about that episode, Gray shows up and he's like,

00:05:57   have you heard about this thing called Obsidian?

00:05:59   It's this pretty cool side project.

00:06:01   And now, of course, his entire life is in there.

00:06:03   So it's funny to hear when things start.

00:06:05   And so, yeah, I don't know what happened.

00:06:07   You got old and forgot how to say it.

00:06:09   No, look, my response to this is, imagine having a perfect memory.

00:06:14   Well, he is a doctor and we're not--

00:06:15   It's an episode of Black Mirror.

00:06:18   I feel like I could give this as feedback to follow up.

00:06:22   I receive a lot.

00:06:24   Imagine having a perfect memory.

00:06:26   People say things and they forget them.

00:06:28   Because on episode 65 of Cortex--

00:06:31   Oh, now who has the perfect memory?

00:06:34   Well, no, I just went on to David Smith's pod search

00:06:38   and just typed in Latex and see what came up.

00:06:41   And on episode 65 of Cortex, me and Gray

00:06:44   had the exact same conversation where I was upset about Latex versus Latex,

00:06:48   which he agreed with me.

00:06:49   And that he always gets it wrong too.

00:06:52   So actually, you're very consistent in your complaint.

00:06:55   Yeah, the complaint is that it's stupid that it's spelled that way.

00:06:59   The formatting is stupid.

00:07:00   Why is the x capital stupid?

00:07:02   I think it's stupid.

00:07:04   And people should call it Latex, and then that's the end of it.

00:07:07   But to be fair, Gray also calls it OS X, so--

00:07:11   Yeah, you can't trust that guy.

00:07:12   I feel like, I don't know what to do about that.

00:07:15   He's not even a real person.

00:07:16   He's a stick figure.

00:07:17   That's true.

00:07:18   That's going on over there.

00:07:19   We would talk to an anime character, you know?

00:07:22   This is not in the show notes, but I'm going to interject here.

00:07:25   I had to type out watch OS X several times recently.

00:07:30   And I so badly wanted to spell it watch OS with a capital X.

00:07:37   Like, I had to really stop and make sure I was doing it right.

00:07:41   So that's still in my brain.

00:07:42   You should have.

00:07:44   You should have done it.

00:07:45   I dare you.

00:07:48   I think Underscore really liked that.

00:07:50   I dare you.

00:07:51   It's up to you how you want to deal with that.

00:07:53   But I've dared you to do it.

00:07:54   OK.

00:07:56   So last time we spoke about iOS 17.4 and programs of attitude,

00:08:00   PWAs, that Apple was removing them from iOS 17.4.

00:08:06   Apple has since decided they won't do that.

00:08:09   What they're going to be doing is one of the things

00:08:12   that we spoke about last time, which they could do,

00:08:15   but they didn't do, which is still

00:08:17   allow people to choose whatever web browser they want,

00:08:20   but that they could offer a PWA and it just uses WebKit

00:08:25   to power the PWA.

00:08:27   Right.

00:08:28   That's the difference.

00:08:29   The PWA itself is on the WebKit stack,

00:08:31   even if you're using Firefox with the Mozilla engine

00:08:34   or Chrome with Blink or whatever.

00:08:37   Yeah.

00:08:37   I do wonder.

00:08:41   There's kind of a weird thing about the DMA

00:08:43   that I think has sort of glanced over a little bit.

00:08:45   They put forth the rules, and then Apple basically

00:08:48   has to give their plan on how to meet those rules.

00:08:52   And I don't even think it's in the document,

00:08:56   but even I think yesterday there were some more changes

00:08:58   that they were announced.

00:08:59   So I wonder if this is one of those things

00:09:01   that maybe it was public feedback,

00:09:04   maybe it was just they didn't have a plan

00:09:07   and they were late to it.

00:09:08   Or maybe the EU was like, hey, this particular issue

00:09:11   we need you to readdress.

00:09:13   We may never know, but I'm glad they're doing it.

00:09:17   It's the right thing to do because there

00:09:20   are people who do depend on those things.

00:09:22   And cutting them out of the OS for what

00:09:25   seemed like a pretty thin reason was kind of lame.

00:09:30   So anyways, I'm glad they've reversed course,

00:09:32   no matter how it happened.

00:09:34   I mean, I just choose to--

00:09:36   I give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

00:09:38   If I was in the same situation, I could imagine they're like,

00:09:42   well, they're never going to let us to keep doing this

00:09:45   because they've told us we can't use WebKit

00:09:47   or we have to allow our browser engines.

00:09:51   So there's no way we're going to get away with the PWA thing.

00:09:53   So let's just remove it.

00:09:54   I just figured they had to do it.

00:09:56   Then people complained.

00:09:57   Then maybe European Union were like, hey, you can't do this.

00:10:00   And they were like, we were trying to follow your rules.

00:10:01   And they're like, well, we don't care about that.

00:10:04   So fine, it's easy for us.

00:10:06   Here you go.

00:10:07   Have it back.

00:10:08   So that's how I reckon it went down.

00:10:11   I mean, maybe I'm less cynical than others,

00:10:13   but that's kind of what I expect happened.

00:10:17   Yeah, I mean, regardless, it's the right call.

00:10:19   It is the right call.

00:10:20   Yeah, this is the best thing for everybody.

00:10:22   Yeah, the next controversy will be, well,

00:10:25   why can I not save a Google Chrome web app to my iPhone's

00:10:31   home screen?

00:10:32   But we'll see if it comes to that.

00:10:33   We don't even know.

00:10:35   I mean, there's no version of Chrome or Firefox

00:10:37   based on different engines in Europe for now.

00:10:40   So maybe that controversy will not happen.

00:10:42   But if those companies ever release a non-WebKit version

00:10:46   of their browsers, I think it will happen.

00:10:48   We'll have this conversation like, well,

00:10:50   why can I not save a Gecko powered PWA to my home screen?

00:10:56   So we'll get to that if it ever happens.

00:10:59   Do you think that the browser companies will do this?

00:11:02   I have no idea.

00:11:02   I feel like Mozilla might, but--

00:11:04   Mozilla might because Mozilla tries everything these days.

00:11:07   They'll do anything.

00:11:08   True.

00:11:09   Two different results.

00:11:11   Weren't they going to do like a Mastodon server at some point?

00:11:14   Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:11:15   Also, it's a good idea.

00:11:17   Yeah, I mean, they obviously have different leaderships.

00:11:21   But Mozilla and Vivaldi are the two browser companies

00:11:26   that are trying a bunch of different things.

00:11:30   Vivaldi, they also have a Mastodon instance.

00:11:34   They have a note-taking feature inside of their browser.

00:11:38   It's kind of wild.

00:11:39   Oh, you can-- like Opera, they have like gaming mode?

00:11:42   Oh, yeah, Opera is kind of gross, I think.

00:11:44   They're doing some-- aren't they doing some crypto mining stuff?

00:11:48   But this is the same thing.

00:11:50   Opera will do everything.

00:11:52   Yeah, yes, yes.

00:11:53   They will just do everything.

00:11:55   And they have like a gaming mode for real gamers.

00:11:58   They do have some sort of crypto multiverse X Web 3 support

00:12:04   stuff all over their blog.

00:12:06   So I don't know what's going on there.

00:12:08   Yeah, no idea.

00:12:09   No idea.

00:12:11   So anyway, 17.4 is out, obviously,

00:12:14   with all the European-related changes.

00:12:18   But there are some other features for it.

00:12:21   Do you feel free from the shackles of the App Store?

00:12:24   I feel empowered by democracy right now.

00:12:30   I touch my phone now, and I smell democracy.

00:12:34   Smells like hot dogs.

00:12:36   No, it smells like the streets of Venice.

00:12:40   What I like is this description of democracy

00:12:43   is rules that nobody really knows how to implement.

00:12:48   This is what democracy is giving us.

00:12:51   That is democracy.

00:12:52   Yeah, have you heard of the electoral college?

00:12:54   No one knows how that thing works.

00:12:56   Unclear rules that no one's quite sure about.

00:12:58   Democracy.

00:12:59   It's one of those words that you just say because it

00:13:03   makes you feel good.

00:13:04   Democracy, ah, yes, yes.

00:13:06   How does it work?

00:13:06   Who knows?

00:13:09   There are other features for non-European users,

00:13:13   like transcripts in podcasts.

00:13:15   Really good.

00:13:15   Yeah.

00:13:16   Really good.

00:13:17   They spell my name right, surprisingly.

00:13:20   Yeah, I had a listener question about that.

00:13:22   Like, how do they know your names?

00:13:24   Like, well, they have the podcast feed,

00:13:25   and our names are in podcast feed.

00:13:28   So that's good.

00:13:29   I'll also point out-- and we'll put a link to Jason's thing

00:13:32   in the show notes.

00:13:33   He wrote a nice piece about transcripts.

00:13:36   Currently, there's no support for transcriptions

00:13:42   on members-only versions of podcasts.

00:13:44   Yeah, individualized private feeds.

00:13:47   Like what we use with our members.

00:13:49   Like what most people do, all Patreon, all Number 4, most--

00:13:53   because if you have just a singular private feed,

00:13:57   it's not really that private, you know?

00:13:59   Because then it's not individualized.

00:14:02   But they should have transcripts for that,

00:14:06   or let us upload our own.

00:14:08   And that doesn't seem to be working right now.

00:14:10   So--

00:14:10   Yeah, I don't know if this is ever going to work.

00:14:13   Like, I don't know how would you do it.

00:14:14   If every feed is individualized, how on earth

00:14:17   could they serve the transcript?

00:14:20   Just point everyone to a file on my server.

00:14:22   Like, that's fine.

00:14:24   They import descriptions that are all the same for everybody.

00:14:27   Like, this is not a thing they have--

00:14:29   like, Apple's made this more complicated than it

00:14:31   needs to be, I think.

00:14:32   And it's a bummer, because we want our members

00:14:35   to have a good experience.

00:14:37   And I also hope that other third-party podcast players

00:14:41   will upload transcripts, because it's much easier

00:14:44   to make them now.

00:14:44   Right.

00:14:45   We've gotten this question over the years of like,

00:14:48   why do you have transcripts?

00:14:49   It's really hard to do transcripts mainly

00:14:52   at our size.

00:14:53   And AI tools, while not perfect, make honestly pretty good ones.

00:14:58   Apple's are really good, actually.

00:15:01   And what we can use--

00:15:02   They're the best I've seen.

00:15:03   They're unbelievable.

00:15:04   Yeah.

00:15:05   And what we can make now are pretty good.

00:15:07   And so hopefully this rolls out to more podcast players,

00:15:10   and hopefully Apple fixes it for private feeds,

00:15:12   because a lot of people use those.

00:15:14   And Apple's fine with all sorts of monetization on podcast.

00:15:19   It's just some are more equal than others,

00:15:21   it feels like right now.

00:15:23   Yeah, like, I'm sure that these would work if we did an Apple

00:15:26   podcast subscription.

00:15:28   Right.

00:15:29   Of course, though.

00:15:29   I mean, I'm being--

00:15:30   Which we can't--

00:15:31   I'm being a jerk.

00:15:32   I know what I got to do.

00:15:34   No, we're not going to, because the 30%, 70% split

00:15:38   doesn't make any sense.

00:15:39   Yeah, take that on, EU.

00:15:42   The biggest news in iOS 17.4, honestly,

00:15:45   probably the lime emoji.

00:15:47   Lime emoji.

00:15:48   I've already used it like three times.

00:15:50   Me too.

00:15:51   On my Mac that is not updated to the latest version of Sonoma,

00:15:55   I see as a lemon followed by a green square.

00:15:59   There's not a new version of Sonoma yet.

00:16:01   There's not a 0.4.

00:16:02   Oh, it's not out?

00:16:03   No, my guess is Friday with the new-- or just sometime ahead

00:16:07   of the new MacBook Airs.

00:16:09   The new Macs, yeah.

00:16:10   So do you remember?

00:16:11   That's called a zwidge.

00:16:13   Yes, where they cram two emoji together and a new one

00:16:16   comes out.

00:16:17   Yeah, a little zwidgey.

00:16:18   When a lemon emoji and a green box emoji

00:16:20   love each other very much, a lime comes into the world.

00:16:24   Wow.

00:16:26   Papa, how are limes made?

00:16:29   That's how I imagine that conversation.

00:16:31   How is Babbie formed?

00:16:32   How is lime formed?

00:16:36   But yes, 17.4 is here.

00:16:38   It has stuff, but the main stuff is the EU stuff.

00:16:40   And currently, I don't think there's anything, right,

00:16:43   Federico?

00:16:43   There's nothing that you can do?

00:16:48   So I haven't seen-- we've heard of at least two app

00:16:55   marketplaces launching soon.

00:16:57   I don't believe they have launched.

00:17:00   And I'm living right now in this weird, unsurprisingly,

00:17:04   scenario in which--

00:17:05   well, obviously--

00:17:06   You?

00:17:09   Weird, me, no way.

00:17:12   So obviously, physically, I'm in Italy right now, and usually.

00:17:18   If you recall, during the iOS 17.4 beta cycle,

00:17:23   we spoke about that option in that little setting

00:17:28   in the Settings app called the Identifiable Region that

00:17:33   told you what region your iPhone running 17.4 was identifying

00:17:40   you as--

00:17:43   like, where are you based?

00:17:45   Now, in the version, in the public version of 17.4,

00:17:49   this Identifiable Region is gone.

00:17:53   And despite living in Italy and my phone previously recognizing

00:18:00   me as having an Identifiable Region of Italy,

00:18:05   I haven't seen any of the EU pop-ups in the App Store

00:18:12   or Safari.

00:18:14   So you haven't got the browser ballot.

00:18:15   I think my phone right now thinks

00:18:20   I'm an American traveling to Italy.

00:18:23   So I think these settings will appear eventually.

00:18:28   I am living in a grace period.

00:18:31   I genuinely think your Apple ID is like a key part that's

00:18:35   going to mess this up.

00:18:38   Probably.

00:18:38   Maybe.

00:18:39   Probably.

00:18:41   You know how you have like a--

00:18:43   I think you have like a burner American phone?

00:18:46   You need a burner EU phone.

00:18:48   Yeah.

00:18:48   Maybe set.

00:18:49   Yeah.

00:18:50   You'd be like Saul Goodman when he opens his desk door

00:18:52   and there's a bunch of phones.

00:18:53   You'd be that guy.

00:18:55   Yeah.

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00:20:53   So Federico, your friends over in the European Commission,

00:21:01   they have handed a basically $2 billion fine to Apple

00:21:06   because of anti-competitive stuff with Spotify.

00:21:10   Me and Jason had a good chat about this on upgrade.

00:21:13   I wanted to know what the two of you

00:21:15   thought about this pretty hefty fine.

00:21:18   I mean, obviously, if you read the explanation

00:21:25   from the European Commission, I think

00:21:29   it's a very well-written and reasonable explanation.

00:21:34   And what they're describing that Apple did

00:21:38   is exactly what Apple did in terms of not telling iOS users

00:21:45   about other options for signing up for a Spotify account

00:21:50   and, therefore, having consumers spend more money

00:21:54   where another cheaper option was available.

00:21:58   I mean, can you dispute the fact that that

00:22:01   is the truth of the situation and that's

00:22:03   been going on for a decade at this point?

00:22:06   That is just the plain truth whether Apple likes it or not.

00:22:10   And of course, Apple doesn't like it.

00:22:13   I am loving-- I think Mike is sort of vibing with me here.

00:22:20   I am absolutely loving the chaos of this situation.

00:22:24   This is like Nero watching Rome burn.

00:22:31   It's like this is pure chaos.

00:22:35   We have what is arguably the strongest ever worded Apple

00:22:42   newsroom press release that reads like a blog post

00:22:46   by an Apple-related publication.

00:22:52   Like an enthusiast website?

00:22:54   I would say like an enthusiast website, yes.

00:22:57   I mean, this person is very enthusiastic.

00:22:59   The person who wrote this--

00:23:00   They had some caffeine when they wrote this thing, man.

00:23:03   If I had the budget, I would hire this person for Mac stories.

00:23:08   This is an excellent way to respond to an argument

00:23:13   and to--

00:23:15   I mean, it's a very--

00:23:16   you can disagree with it, and I do.

00:23:18   I disagree with the statement, but it's

00:23:20   a very forceful response.

00:23:23   Five times-- five times in this press release,

00:23:27   they say pays Apple nothing.

00:23:30   Five times, they say it, that Apple is paid nothing.

00:23:34   Nothing, I say, nothing.

00:23:37   The funny thing is, there is absolutely no other way

00:23:39   that Apple makes money from iOS, right?

00:23:44   It's like the strange part is they make no money, right?

00:23:48   Like the iPhones, we all know, they give them for free.

00:23:52   So there's no way that people-- oh, no, they actually

00:23:55   make 40% on every single iPhone that they

00:23:56   sell to the tune of billions and billions and billions

00:23:59   and billions of dollars a quarter.

00:24:01   In all of this, by the way, all this dispute going on,

00:24:06   especially in the EU, but then also in other regions,

00:24:10   but really mostly in the EU right now,

00:24:13   I still think how wild it is.

00:24:16   All this time, this energy that we have spent as observers,

00:24:20   and obviously the time and money that Apple has spent,

00:24:23   legal expenses, and all the other companies, and the EU,

00:24:26   all of this could be solved if iPhones

00:24:29   worked like the other computers that Apple makes.

00:24:33   Like, if you think about it, just make it work like a Mac.

00:24:38   Well, it's just the one computer that works that way.

00:24:40   I mean, we talked about this at some point on a podcast.

00:24:45   Maybe it was in PU.

00:24:46   Anyways, the Mac is the only one that

00:24:48   works in the way that you're getting ready to describe.

00:24:50   You're just like, put apps on it and do whatever you want.

00:24:53   The iPhone and then everything that is descended from the phone

00:24:57   is like the phone.

00:24:58   Yeah, but at some point, maybe cut your losses

00:25:01   and realize, well, we have this thing that's

00:25:02   been going pretty well so far.

00:25:05   Nobody ever fined us $2 billion over a Macintosh.

00:25:10   Maybe we should just follow that model.

00:25:14   Because all this drama, it could have saved you the trouble.

00:25:19   Just make it work that way, and nobody's ever

00:25:22   going to complain again.

00:25:25   I don't know.

00:25:26   Obviously, I'm not an expert, but I'm looking at the Mac,

00:25:31   and I'm like, nobody ever got upset at the Mac this way.

00:25:36   I look at what the iPhone is doing.

00:25:38   So maybe just follow your older brother in the lineup

00:25:41   and do that.

00:25:43   I don't know.

00:25:44   If there is only some way to keep those gates.

00:25:49   I know that the services revenue--

00:25:53   I guess it's because it's the driver, right?

00:25:56   Services is like $22 billion a quarter.

00:25:58   And let's just imagine 80% of that is App Store stuff.

00:26:06   Remember a bunch of money that's also at Google.

00:26:10   So let's say half.

00:26:12   I was going to say, don't forget the search deal.

00:26:15   It would be-- so looking at Q423,

00:26:19   it would take their earnings from $89 to $78.

00:26:24   I don't think that's a big deal.

00:26:27   I mean, it's obviously big for Wall Street.

00:26:29   They'd be like, ah!

00:26:30   But I feel like if they just--

00:26:33   they would have a tough time for, I don't know, a year.

00:26:37   But then it would just readjust, and the growth

00:26:39   would begin again.

00:26:42   Just broadly speaking, wouldn't it be better--

00:26:44   Maybe this is why we're not CEOs of these huge companies.

00:26:47   Maybe, maybe.

00:26:48   Sure, maybe.

00:26:48   But a very simplistic point of view

00:26:51   would be, wouldn't it be better to make your money off

00:26:55   of services based on merit alone rather than gatekeeping?

00:27:03   Make money on services if people like your services

00:27:05   and give you money for those instead of like, well,

00:27:08   we make money off of our services

00:27:09   because we kind of want to hide the other options,

00:27:13   or at the very least make them more expensive for customers.

00:27:16   Wouldn't it be better if you make money off of Apple Music

00:27:19   because people really like Apple Music?

00:27:23   Steering doesn't sound nice.

00:27:25   I don't want to be steered as a human being.

00:27:29   That is what they're doing, right?

00:27:30   Yeah, you should buy a Tesla.

00:27:33   No steering, please.

00:27:35   So I would like to self-drive my way through the App Store.

00:27:37   I was going to say, that's what Apple's car was all about.

00:27:40   They're anti-steering all over the place.

00:27:42   That's very true, very true.

00:27:45   Let's cleanse our palates with Professor Petitche.

00:27:48   See, with all this European Union drama that's unfolding,

00:27:52   I find it really beneficial for you guys

00:27:54   to learn some Italians.

00:27:57   So that when the time comes that we

00:27:58   have to litigate our way into some kind of law

00:28:03   that we're breaking with this podcast

00:28:05   because we're being anti-competitive,

00:28:07   we can do that as a trio in Italian.

00:28:10   So last time in the Teach Italian segment, we learned--

00:28:13   and it's a royal "we," of course.

00:28:16   I knew them.

00:28:17   I hope you learned them.

00:28:20   The first few letters of the Italian alphabet.

00:28:23   So "a, b, c, d, e, f."

00:28:26   Now, can we do a quick recap, Mike and Steven,

00:28:29   of the letters we learned?

00:28:30   Yeah, "a, b, c, d, e, f."

00:28:35   You just-- you misspelled one, Mike.

00:28:37   Ah, which one?

00:28:39   It's not "e."

00:28:39   It's "e."

00:28:40   "e."

00:28:41   "f."

00:28:41   Yes.

00:28:42   "f" is my favorite.

00:28:43   "fa" is the best one.

00:28:44   All right, and Steven, I assume--

00:28:47   do we get a version from you?

00:28:50   I did at the same time Mike did.

00:28:51   I think you'll find that on the tape.

00:28:53   Everyone clearly heard it.

00:28:54   Today, we are moving to the next six letters.

00:28:57   And the difficulty is going--

00:29:01   maybe rising a little bit here.

00:29:04   So we're doing "ghikl."

00:29:08   In Italian, this will be--

00:29:09   first one is easy, "g."

00:29:11   All right, so it's like in English.

00:29:13   "g."

00:29:13   Now the "h" is one particular little dude, "aka."

00:29:20   "aka."

00:29:21   Excuse me?

00:29:22   Yes, "aka."

00:29:23   This is like the jump scare, right?

00:29:29   Because I feel like everything else before was like,

00:29:31   yeah, I know, I can understand how we get there.

00:29:33   I'm going to read you all the letters.

00:29:36   "g," "aka," "e," "j," "kappa."

00:29:40   So it's different from "aka," but it's similar.

00:29:43   "kappa," "e."

00:29:44   This is way harder.

00:29:45   This is interesting.

00:29:46   What happened to "h" and "k"?

00:29:48   You know what I mean?

00:29:48   Why are we in a different world here?

00:29:50   Yeah, so "h" is "aka," and "k" is "kappa."

00:29:55   Yeah.

00:29:55   Wait, what was it?

00:29:57   "Kappa."

00:29:58   "Kappa."

00:29:59   "Kappa," with a hard "c."

00:30:01   "I'd like a cup of coffee."

00:30:02   Like that?

00:30:03   "I'd like a cup of coffee," yes.

00:30:04   Yes.

00:30:05   Let me do it like Mario.

00:30:06   "I'd like a cup of coffee."

00:30:08   Yeah.

00:30:09   I pitched.

00:30:09   [LAUGHTER]

00:30:12   OK.

00:30:12   It's higher.

00:30:13   I can't go that high.

00:30:14   Let me see how high I can go.

00:30:15   Let me get some water.

00:30:17   Jim, leave all this in.

00:30:19   Yeah.

00:30:20   All right, Mario walks into an espresso shop.

00:30:23   Yeah.

00:30:24   "I'd like a cup of coffee."

00:30:28   Like that.

00:30:29   Yeah, there he is.

00:30:29   That's a sudden-sounding Mario.

00:30:33   Mario's on the chat.

00:30:34   "Kate, that was Mickey Mouse.

00:30:36   Get out, Kate!"

00:30:39   All right.

00:30:39   All right.

00:30:40   So, so, so, G, AKA, I. The first three.

00:30:44   G, AKA, I.

00:30:46   G, AKA, I.

00:30:47   Yes, perfect.

00:30:49   J, kappa, L.

00:30:52   J, kappa, L.

00:30:55   Yeah, yeah, I can go with that.

00:30:57   J, kappa, L.

00:31:00   See, this is the same mistake you do with the "efe."

00:31:04   It's not "efe."

00:31:05   It's not "ele."

00:31:07   It's "ele." Longer.

00:31:10   "Ele."

00:31:12   Well, not that long.

00:31:13   That fixes it.

00:31:14   It fixes it.

00:31:15   That's it.

00:31:16   Just overdo it.

00:31:17   Don't overdo it.

00:31:19   J, kappa, L.

00:31:23   OK, OK.

00:31:24   I can live with that.

00:31:24   I can live with that.

00:31:25   That's pretty good.

00:31:26   It sounds pretty good to me.

00:31:28   And I will tell you, Federico, all week,

00:31:31   I have been laughing to myself when I think of LMN.

00:31:35   The way that you said them last time

00:31:36   was so funny to me.

00:31:38   We're going to have fun next week.

00:31:39   I can't wait.

00:31:40   Next week, we're just going to finish the alphabet.

00:31:44   We started with six, and then six again.

00:31:46   Next time, we're just going to finish it.

00:31:48   Dude, that's 19 letters.

00:31:50   No.

00:31:50   Well, no.

00:31:51   14 letters.

00:31:51   Wait.

00:31:52   14 letters.

00:31:53   Yes.

00:31:56   Everybody knows there's five extra letters in the sign.

00:31:59   I was counting on my hands and lost track.

00:32:01   As a spoiler for next week, there

00:32:03   are some beautiful, beautiful letters waiting for us,

00:32:07   such as eme, ene, ku, and, of course, the best one, erre.

00:32:15   Well, look, one of my favorite letters in any language

00:32:18   is Dublevé.

00:32:19   I hope you're going to give me something of that quality.

00:32:21   Oh, yes, yes.

00:32:23   The W, of course.

00:32:24   Yeah, that's all I want.

00:32:26   Dublevé.

00:32:27   It's not Dublevé.

00:32:28   So let's go from one form of Federico chaos

00:32:31   to another form of Federico chaos.

00:32:34   I almost feel like this is the tragedy and--

00:32:38   was it tragedy and misery, the two masks,

00:32:41   the dramatic masks?

00:32:43   We've had this conversation before, I know,

00:32:44   and I've forgotten.

00:32:45   Two masks, tragedy and tragedy.

00:32:48   It's like comedy and tragedy.

00:32:49   Comedy and tragedy.

00:32:50   Are you saying there are two masks inside of me?

00:32:53   Is it sort of like that?

00:32:54   The two masks of chaos, where one is just

00:32:57   like here's a little bit of fun, and then the other is like,

00:33:01   I'm going to rise something from the dead, you know?

00:33:05   Like true Federico Frankenstein, the MacPad.

00:33:09   I am going to assume the majority of our listeners

00:33:12   have seen this by now.

00:33:13   But if they haven't, there'll be a link in the show notes

00:33:15   over at MacStories, where essentially Federico--

00:33:18   can you give the top level as to what the MacPad is?

00:33:22   The MacPad is a hybrid Mac and iPad merged together,

00:33:28   thanks to magnets and the Apple sidecar technology.

00:33:32   From a hardware standpoint, it's an M2 MacBook Air

00:33:36   without the display.

00:33:38   The iPad is the display, and the iPad

00:33:41   floats above the keyboard, thanks to magnets.

00:33:43   From a software standpoint, it's all based on Apple software.

00:33:47   It's all based on sidecar and universal control.

00:33:51   All right.

00:33:51   So the key part of this here is that you took a laptop

00:33:56   and you removed the screen.

00:33:57   Like that is the very, very key part of it.

00:33:59   It's the hardest part.

00:34:00   Yeah.

00:34:01   I kind of want to get into this a little bit with you,

00:34:03   because I feel like within the last year,

00:34:06   you have become modern curious, and you've

00:34:09   been tinkering with stuff.

00:34:12   I remember saying there was something

00:34:13   you wanted to do a while ago, and I

00:34:15   was encouraging you to solve it.

00:34:16   And you didn't want to do it, right?

00:34:18   Because it is a bit of a--

00:34:22   there is a bit of a hump to get over

00:34:23   when you start tinkering with electronics.

00:34:26   Like, it's intimidating to start.

00:34:29   And then you kind of realize--

00:34:30   well, I feel, anyway, how kind of crudely a lot of this stuff

00:34:34   is actually put together.

00:34:35   And most electronics-- most, I will say, electronics--

00:34:39   can take a little bit more than you think they can.

00:34:43   And Stephen, would you agree with that?

00:34:45   Like, I know that you've dealt with a lot of really

00:34:47   old technology in your time, like tinkering with that.

00:34:50   That there's kind of like--

00:34:51   you can be imprecise, and things will still work mostly, OK?

00:34:55   Yeah, I think that's fair.

00:34:57   And I feel like that's the thing that you've learned.

00:34:59   But yeah, Federico, I want to know,

00:35:01   what was it like kind of dissembling,

00:35:03   removing the display, and then putting this laptop back

00:35:08   together again?

00:35:10   I mean, the process was mostly fine.

00:35:13   I watched the video that I was referencing

00:35:17   by Luc Miani on YouTube.

00:35:19   I watched it a couple of times before doing it myself.

00:35:22   I made a note of all the steps that I needed to follow,

00:35:26   all the equipment that I needed.

00:35:28   The hardest part was the fact that I was missing

00:35:32   one particular T2 screwdriver.

00:35:36   I reached the very end of the disassembly,

00:35:40   and I thought I had failed at the whole thing,

00:35:44   because I couldn't remove one final screw.

00:35:48   And I basically forced it out with a bigger screwdriver,

00:35:51   and it was fine.

00:35:52   I was listening to you tell John that on App Stories,

00:35:56   and I think I was driving.

00:35:58   I was like, ugh.

00:36:02   It was OK.

00:36:02   It was OK.

00:36:03   So first up, Federico, you need the full iFixit kit.

00:36:07   Yeah.

00:36:09   You will just appreciate having it.

00:36:12   Yeah.

00:36:12   Yeah, I had the basic one, but it

00:36:15   doesn't have all the tools.

00:36:16   Yeah, you want the full one, like the ProTech toolkit.

00:36:19   That's what you want.

00:36:20   The ProTech, yes.

00:36:21   It's a really, really good thing to own.

00:36:25   I recommend it.

00:36:26   I've used mine just for regular stuff,

00:36:29   just because all the bits, you get all the bits.

00:36:31   They're all there.

00:36:33   It's a nice investment.

00:36:34   It's pretty well made, too.

00:36:36   And the other thing that proved a little too difficult,

00:36:39   and then eventually I lost my patience,

00:36:40   was putting back all the shields that

00:36:44   were covering all the connectors.

00:36:46   And so I ran out of patience, and I was like, you know what?

00:36:49   I'm just going to not put back these other shields.

00:36:52   I put back--

00:36:53   OK, so similarly, this was my favorite part.

00:36:55   Because it's kind of like, you were so far.

00:36:58   Like, why didn't you just do it?

00:37:00   No, I couldn't be bothered.

00:37:02   I was all excited to try the thing.

00:37:05   And so I did more than the original YouTube video did.

00:37:11   So at the very least, I put back the shield

00:37:13   on the battery connector, because that

00:37:15   was making me uneasy to leave it unshielded.

00:37:19   I saw that in his video.

00:37:21   I was like, what are you doing?

00:37:22   Yeah, I put back that one.

00:37:24   I put back the shields on the speaker connector.

00:37:27   I think I covered the essentials of the critical components

00:37:31   inside.

00:37:33   But really, the hard work--

00:37:37   it was actually more difficult, honestly, to--

00:37:40   obviously, first, to find the courage to do it.

00:37:43   Finding the willingness to do it was more difficult

00:37:46   than actually doing it.

00:37:48   And honestly, it was more challenging to line up

00:37:51   the magnets just right than to-- it's

00:37:53   very easy to open up a MacBook Air.

00:37:55   And the machine is beautiful inside.

00:37:58   So you can tell it's an Apple product, obviously.

00:38:01   It's very precise, and clean, and easy to understand.

00:38:07   Is there a hole in the back?

00:38:08   Now that the screen is gone and the hinge is gone.

00:38:11   There is a small hole in the back, yes.

00:38:15   I am leaving it.

00:38:16   I am leaving it just open for now.

00:38:21   I am not particularly worried about dust or--

00:38:25   I'm not going to take this thing to the beach, obviously.

00:38:29   I am not.

00:38:30   You just pour the sand out of your laptop

00:38:32   at the end of the day?

00:38:33   It's fine.

00:38:34   It's all silicon in the end, you know?

00:38:36   Good point.

00:38:38   Yeah, yeah, no.

00:38:39   There is a small gap in the front.

00:38:41   But hey, maybe it's good for ventilation, you know?

00:38:43   It's one extra--

00:38:45   Improved air flow.

00:38:46   Yeah, improved the air flow.

00:38:47   There's one extra window.

00:38:48   You should run a Geekbench on it and just see if it's

00:38:52   improved it at all.

00:38:53   One thing that you said elsewhere

00:38:56   that I didn't think about until you said it,

00:38:58   I was like, oh, of course.

00:38:59   You said the battery life's incredible, right?

00:39:02   Yes, yeah.

00:39:04   That's because the computer is not powering

00:39:07   like a physical display anymore.

00:39:09   So really, the battery lasts forever now.

00:39:12   And really, the biggest hit on the battery

00:39:15   is on the iPad itself, like keeping the display always on

00:39:18   and keeping sidecar always going on the iPad.

00:39:21   That's the device that I'm finding myself

00:39:23   charging most of the time.

00:39:24   It's the iPad, not the Mac.

00:39:25   The top half of your computer.

00:39:27   If you plug the iPad into the laptop,

00:39:31   will the laptop charge the iPad?

00:39:32   It will, yes.

00:39:34   OK, there you go.

00:39:35   So you can kind of get your ratio in that way.

00:39:38   I know this sounds weird, but it has

00:39:41   been playing on my mind a lot, the fact

00:39:43   that the battery life has improved.

00:39:45   Because it's like, does the computer

00:39:48   know there's no display?

00:39:49   Like, it doesn't.

00:39:49   It doesn't.

00:39:50   I understand how battery life works.

00:39:52   But it is weird to me.

00:39:56   The computer still thinks there's an internal display.

00:39:59   The computer still thinks there's a built-in display.

00:40:01   But physically, I guess, electricity

00:40:05   is not going in there.

00:40:07   Right.

00:40:07   So if you open System Information on the Mac,

00:40:12   and you go to-- is there a display section in here?

00:40:16   Graphic Displays, what does it say?

00:40:18   Oh, it says Retina LCD.

00:40:21   Oh, god.

00:40:22   So it does think there's a display.

00:40:24   It's not connected anymore, right?

00:40:24   No, sorry.

00:40:24   No, no, no, no, sorry.

00:40:26   That's because I'm plugged into the studio display right now.

00:40:29   Hold on.

00:40:29   I have a screenshot of this in the article.

00:40:31   I'm finding it for you.

00:40:32   OK, I'm sorry.

00:40:33   Let's see.

00:40:35   But it does say built-in display.

00:40:37   Let me scroll.

00:40:38   Here it is.

00:40:39   That is so weird.

00:40:40   It says Color LCD, built-in liquid retina display.

00:40:43   Yeah.

00:40:44   It thinks it's there.

00:40:45   Connection type, internal.

00:40:47   No, it's not.

00:40:49   It's not that, Apple.

00:40:50   I'm sure you have, but phantom limb syndrome?

00:40:53   Yeah, sure.

00:40:54   The computer has that.

00:40:55   If somebody loses a limb that they can sometimes still feel

00:40:58   it or feel the pain, it's like your computer has that.

00:41:01   There is no monitor, but it thinks there is one.

00:41:05   The only thing that would be weird in that way

00:41:07   is if the battery life hadn't improved.

00:41:09   That would be even stranger, right?

00:41:11   If it's still using the battery.

00:41:14   Obviously, the display connector is still plugged directly

00:41:19   into the motherboard, right?

00:41:21   So the computer--

00:41:22   Oh, it is?

00:41:23   OK.

00:41:23   Yeah, the computer sees the display connector

00:41:26   being connected.

00:41:27   But actually, the display connector, which is a cable,

00:41:30   doesn't have a display attached to it.

00:41:32   So that's why the computer says, well,

00:41:34   I see that there is an internal display.

00:41:36   Too bad that there's no actual pixels to drive anymore.

00:41:39   Is the display cable just loose inside of there,

00:41:41   just rattling around?

00:41:42   No, it's not loose.

00:41:44   Nothing is rattling around the computer.

00:41:46   It's got its own slot.

00:41:48   It's just-- it's placed there.

00:41:54   I just unplugged the--

00:41:56   There's another connector.

00:41:58   Yeah, from the display itself.

00:42:00   I bet if you unplugged it from the board,

00:42:02   it would not think there's a display.

00:42:05   I think that's the case.

00:42:07   I also think that it would start to throw some serious errors.

00:42:11   It may freak out.

00:42:12   I think that's-- it's going to be like, no, you've

00:42:15   got to bring me in.

00:42:17   Something's terribly wrong.

00:42:19   I did have the funny idea.

00:42:20   You unplug this cable, and now you

00:42:22   have pixels shooting out of the back of your computer that

00:42:26   would be otherwise trapped on the display.

00:42:28   You're just shooting out.

00:42:32   Maybe not so much.

00:42:33   It's been a long time since I've repaired computers for a living.

00:42:36   Sometimes you forget how things work.

00:42:37   It seems like it.

00:42:39   OK, so the--

00:42:40   Do I cut that, or do I leave it in?

00:42:41   No one will know.

00:42:42   You can do whatever you want.

00:42:44   You've got-- obviously, you've embraced the power of magnets,

00:42:47   and you're using this to mount an iPad

00:42:49   to the top of the laptop when you

00:42:51   want to use it like a laptop.

00:42:52   Because obviously, the key part that we've not mentioned here

00:42:54   is the inciting event for this was

00:42:57   I want to use a keyboard and trackpad with my Vision Pro

00:43:01   all the time.

00:43:01   Yeah, the idea was--

00:43:04   really, it all started because I saw that video,

00:43:07   and I realized that headless MacBook Air could

00:43:12   be the best input accessory for a Vision Pro.

00:43:15   And then I didn't want to do it because it

00:43:16   felt like a waste of, well, a good computer to just say,

00:43:20   hey, I turned a perfectly fine computer into a Vision Pro

00:43:23   keyboard and trackpad.

00:43:24   Hey, I don't have a laptop anymore now.

00:43:27   So that's why I didn't want to do it.

00:43:29   It was only when I realized, oh, actually here,

00:43:32   there is a bigger thing that I could try,

00:43:34   which is to build a hybrid Apple computer so that I can

00:43:37   have a laptop when I want a laptop.

00:43:40   And I also can have a great input accessory for the Vision

00:43:43   Pro, but also, it can be the convertible

00:43:47   that Apple doesn't make.

00:43:49   So the dream of I'm using a laptop,

00:43:51   but then if I want to just grab the display, and it's a tablet,

00:43:54   and I can work with the tablet on the couch or in bed,

00:43:58   it's also the same, quote, unquote, "machine."

00:44:01   Yeah, that's the exciting part for me.

00:44:03   Not necessarily like, yeah, I made a Mac

00:44:07   with a weird display.

00:44:09   It's the fact that I can grab the display

00:44:12   and use my iPad like that.

00:44:15   I have a couple of more questions for you

00:44:17   about the hardware before we maybe move on

00:44:19   to some other areas, because I'm just intrigued about how

00:44:21   this whole thing works.

00:44:23   So yeah, you have the iPad, which

00:44:27   is attached by magnets.

00:44:28   Yes.

00:44:29   Does it close?

00:44:30   No.

00:44:30   Can you close the--

00:44:32   OK.

00:44:32   No, no, it doesn't close.

00:44:33   And I had a footnote, I think, in the story about this.

00:44:37   Maybe in another timeline, there's

00:44:40   a version of me that owns a 3D printer

00:44:43   and knows how to make an alternative hinge

00:44:49   system for this kind of product.

00:44:52   But right now, no, it doesn't close flat

00:44:56   on top of the keyboard.

00:44:57   I bought from Amazon a $20 sleeve with two pockets,

00:45:04   one for the computer and other for the iPad.

00:45:07   And that's how I carry it around.

00:45:09   Otherwise, they are two separate things

00:45:13   that I need to store separately.

00:45:15   Yeah.

00:45:15   OK.

00:45:17   You're using an 11-inch iPad Pro.

00:45:19   Yes.

00:45:20   Yeah.

00:45:21   The 13 would visually fit better, right?

00:45:25   Yes, it does.

00:45:26   Visually, it looks much better.

00:45:28   The 13--

00:45:29   So why do you use the 11 over the 13?

00:45:30   Because it was a combination of things.

00:45:32   One, the 13-inch version was just too heavy,

00:45:36   heavier than a MacBook Pro.

00:45:38   And I was concerned that the magnets wouldn't hold.

00:45:41   It was just too much.

00:45:42   It was uncomfortable.

00:45:43   But the second reason is part of a bigger sort of realization

00:45:46   that I had lately that I enjoy using the 11-inch more.

00:45:50   I understood something about myself

00:45:53   over the past couple of months, which

00:45:54   is I was using the 13-inch iPad more as a laptop

00:46:00   than as a tablet.

00:46:01   And what I love about the iPad is

00:46:02   that I can use the device as a computer,

00:46:06   but also as something that I can hold in my hands.

00:46:09   And I just get more enjoyment out of the 11-inch

00:46:12   as a tablet in my hands than the bigger version.

00:46:17   Sure, multitasking is much better on the bigger one.

00:46:22   But if I end up not using the 13-inch iPad

00:46:26   because it's so uncomfortable to hold

00:46:28   and impossible to use in portrait mode,

00:46:30   then I'm losing the whole benefit of having an iPad, which

00:46:35   is you can go from having a laptop to having a tablet.

00:46:39   The 11-inch feels like a better compromise

00:46:41   for what I enjoy, what I love about the iPad as a product.

00:46:47   Does it fall over?

00:46:48   It doesn't.

00:46:49   It doesn't.

00:46:50   If it were the 13, it probably would, right?

00:46:53   Yeah, it didn't.

00:46:54   But it was more--

00:46:55   it didn't.

00:46:56   With three magnets, it didn't.

00:46:58   It doesn't fall over.

00:46:59   But I was like, you know, it's just too heavy.

00:47:03   And I just feel safer, and I enjoy the 11-inch more.

00:47:08   But with three magnets in the back,

00:47:10   it's a very strong connection.

00:47:12   Yeah.

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00:49:45   So we've talked about the hardware,

00:49:49   but I think the hardware, while it gets people in the door

00:49:52   to this article, the software, I think,

00:49:54   is really more interesting in a lot of ways

00:49:58   because you've kind of combined the Mac OS environment

00:50:02   and the iPad OS environment in ways

00:50:04   that I did not see coming as you've been working on this.

00:50:09   What are some of the key components there,

00:50:12   and where are the lines of what's a Mac and what's an iPad?

00:50:15   Yeah, so the really interesting part for me

00:50:18   is that I'm not using any particular hack or workaround

00:50:23   to make this possible.

00:50:24   It's all based on Apple software.

00:50:26   It's all based-- in fact, I mean, the whole software side,

00:50:31   nothing is new on that front.

00:50:33   Sidecar has existed for nearly five years

00:50:36   since iPad OS 13 and Mac OS Catalina.

00:50:40   Nothing has changed there.

00:50:43   It's still a way to extend your computer onto an iPad display.

00:50:47   I'm just leveraging Sidecar when I want to use

00:50:50   the Mac pad in Mac OS mode, so the iPad becomes a Mac OS

00:50:54   display.

00:50:55   And I'm using another Apple feature,

00:50:57   which is universal control, when I want to use the Mac

00:51:01   pad in iPad mode.

00:51:03   In that case, I just need to swipe to the left,

00:51:06   and the pointer appears on the iPad OS side of things.

00:51:10   I think it's fascinating-- at least for me,

00:51:12   maybe it also is for others--

00:51:14   that I'm just leveraging existing Apple software.

00:51:17   I'm not doing anything out of the already existing pieces

00:51:23   of technology that Apple has here.

00:51:25   The only thing I did is a shortcut

00:51:28   to simplify the Sidecar connection.

00:51:32   That's the only sort of maybe custom thing.

00:51:35   Typically, you would have to start Sidecar

00:51:39   from the Mac OS UI.

00:51:41   But how can you do that when you cannot see the Mac OS UI

00:51:45   anymore, because you don't have a display anymore?

00:51:48   And so I found a way to initiate Sidecar from an iPad

00:51:52   rather than from Mac OS.

00:51:54   But it's still Sidecar.

00:51:57   There's nothing special about it.

00:51:59   The interesting part for me was realizing that I

00:52:06   was able to use Mac OS and iPad OS at the same time,

00:52:10   like on the same screen together.

00:52:12   And that is possible because--

00:52:15   and again, this has been the case for five years, I guess.

00:52:20   I disabled Stage Manager on the iPad Pro.

00:52:24   My thinking was, well, I have much better multitasking

00:52:29   on the Mac now.

00:52:31   Why do I need Stage Manager?

00:52:34   When I want to grab my iPad to use it as a tablet,

00:52:37   maybe old school Split View and Slide Over maybe

00:52:41   would be more conducive to that sort of experience.

00:52:44   And so I disabled Stage Manager.

00:52:46   And one day, as I was testing the Mac pad, I swiped on screen,

00:52:51   and I realized that Slide Over appeared.

00:52:54   And that sort of was a turning point for the whole project.

00:52:58   It sort of broke my brain.

00:53:00   I was looking at Mac OS, but at the same time,

00:53:03   I could use an iPad app in Slide Over on the same screen.

00:53:08   And that's been something that I now do.

00:53:11   It's become something that I now do on a regular basis,

00:53:15   for example, listening to music.

00:53:17   So I'm working on Mac OS.

00:53:19   I'm using Obsidian.

00:53:20   I'm using Safari.

00:53:21   I'm using Shortcut on the Mac, which is better than on iOS.

00:53:28   But if I want to listen to music,

00:53:29   I actually listen to music via the music app for iPad OS

00:53:34   in Slide Over mode.

00:53:36   It's easier to invoke.

00:53:38   It's easier to use.

00:53:39   And because it's playing music through the speakers

00:53:42   of the iPad, it sounds better than through the speakers

00:53:46   of the MacBook Air.

00:53:48   So the real story for me has been, obviously,

00:53:52   from a physical standpoint, grabbing the display

00:53:55   and using it as a tablet.

00:53:57   But from a digital, from a software standpoint,

00:54:01   has been having Mac OS and iPad OS together

00:54:05   on screen at the same time.

00:54:08   And you don't have any issues with when

00:54:10   you're trying to reboot or anything like that?

00:54:13   It all just works well?

00:54:15   When you reboot, you have a couple of options.

00:54:17   What I do is I VNC into the Mac.

00:54:23   As I explained in the article, I disabled FileVault encryption.

00:54:27   If you do that, if you turn off FileVault,

00:54:30   you still have a login password, of course.

00:54:32   But with FileVault turned off, the VNC background process

00:54:37   can start up at login even after a reboot.

00:54:42   So I can use screens to log in the first time after a reboot

00:54:47   or, if you don't want to rely on that,

00:54:49   I guess you could use a capture card with your Mac

00:54:53   and your iPad Pro and basically connect over USB-C to HDMI

00:54:57   and display the image in Orion for iPad, for example.

00:55:03   But I prefer screens.

00:55:04   I prefer the VNC method.

00:55:06   And Sidecar has been very reliable for me.

00:55:11   Actually, I'm working on a bit of an update to the story.

00:55:16   There's something that I realized that, you know,

00:55:20   there's a section in the article where I talk about

00:55:24   the portable router that I use to establish a Wi-Fi network

00:55:30   when I'm not home, so like when I'm in the car, for example.

00:55:35   That's not needed. I need to clarify that.

00:55:39   I don't know why it wasn't working for me two weeks ago,

00:55:42   but I was able to work today in my car with the Mac pad

00:55:46   just, you know, without the portable router.

00:55:50   The devices just communicate over Wi-Fi.

00:55:54   Without a Wi-Fi network,

00:55:55   they establish a wireless connection between them,

00:55:58   even if you're not on a Wi-Fi network.

00:56:01   And then I just connected the Mac pad

00:56:03   to my iPhone's personal hotspot for an Internet connection,

00:56:07   and it was fine.

00:56:08   So, yeah, that's something that I need to clarify

00:56:11   in an update to the story.

00:56:13   And I guess I will do an update to the story

00:56:17   when I get a better display,

00:56:19   when I get an OLED display for my Mac.

00:56:24   -Any day now. Any day. -Any day now.

00:56:26   And I think it's quite ironic that I will have

00:56:29   an OLED MacBook years before

00:56:33   an actual OLED MacBook from Apple.

00:56:38   Wait, what's the MacBook Pro? Oh, it's microLED in it.

00:56:40   Yeah, it's not OLED.

00:56:43   What is going to happen

00:56:45   when you install a beta on one of these computers?

00:56:48   I won't. I won't. I won't.

00:56:50   Don't do it.

00:56:52   It feels very, very much like something

00:56:54   that would just be broken from the middle of June

00:56:57   until the middle of August.

00:56:59   Yeah, realistically, what's going to happen here

00:57:01   is I will keep a spare iPad on the beta cycle,

00:57:05   and this will be my...

00:57:07   But the beautiful thing here is that

00:57:09   I can...

00:57:12   I can have different displays for my computer, right?

00:57:17   So I can keep the Mac computer on a stable version of Sonoma,

00:57:23   and then I can just swap between displays.

00:57:26   You know, I can use an 11-inch iPad Pro on 17.

00:57:31   I can use a 13-inch iPad Pro on iPadOS 18.

00:57:35   It doesn't matter. As long as Sidecar exists,

00:57:38   the display will work.

00:57:42   And so I am free to experiment with different displays

00:57:45   running different versions of the operating system,

00:57:48   as long as I don't install the beta on the macOS side,

00:57:53   which I never do. So I think I will be fine.

00:57:56   Entirely true.

00:57:58   But you have a studio display, too, at the moment, right?

00:58:01   Like... Yeah.

00:58:02   Uh-huh. That's bolted to your wall.

00:58:05   Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:58:07   I mean, I've heard you say you might get --

00:58:08   Why would you get rid of it?

00:58:09   Like, what's it harming to have it?

00:58:12   I mean, it's not harming anyone right now.

00:58:17   Keep an eye on it.

00:58:20   I'm wondering, like, is it necessary?

00:58:22   You know, especially with the Vision Pro

00:58:24   and, you know, having, like,

00:58:28   a virtual giant display in front of me.

00:58:31   I only really ever work at the studio display

00:58:34   when I'm recording podcasts,

00:58:36   and I'm wondering, do I have to keep a monitor on this wall?

00:58:42   Do I even need -- Like, now that --

00:58:44   See, when I bought this furniture and this display,

00:58:50   the Vision Pro didn't exist.

00:58:52   I had no idea I would have a headless MacBook.

00:58:55   I had no idea that someday I would use macOS

00:58:59   on a virtual display.

00:59:00   This furniture is from two years ago.

00:59:04   Now I'm wondering,

00:59:07   do I still need this studio display on my wall?

00:59:11   And something else that has happened over the past year --

00:59:14   I bought a really nice table in the living room,

00:59:18   and I have a really nice couch,

00:59:21   and I enjoy working in the living room

00:59:24   because every afternoon, I'm home alone.

00:59:26   Sylvia is at dance school, and I'm like,

00:59:30   "I'm just gonna stay here on the couch with the dogs

00:59:33   or at this very, very big and comfortable living-room table

00:59:38   that we have.

00:59:40   Do I need this giant desk with a physical monitor

00:59:43   bolted to the wall?"

00:59:44   So that's what I'm thinking about.

00:59:45   But for now, it's staying.

00:59:48   -I guess it depends on --

00:59:50   Like, obviously, podcasts are a lot of your work,

00:59:52   and they're a lot of work in hours, right, as well.

00:59:55   Like, not even just a proportion.

00:59:57   And I would just wonder how comfortable you would be

01:00:01   to either have -- to be looking down at the laptop

01:00:04   for the time that you're recording

01:00:06   or to have the Vision Pro on, which I don't really think --

01:00:09   I mean, I've tried it.

01:00:09   I don't really think it's realistic right now.

01:00:11   It's, like, too big and weird to record podcasts

01:00:14   with a Vision Pro on, I find.

01:00:16   So, like, even if it was just for that reason,

01:00:20   I see there being sense in it, but...

01:00:23   -Yeah, which is why, for now,

01:00:24   I'm not touching this part of my house.

01:00:28   For now, this is staying, and we'll reassess maybe next year.

01:00:32   -And also, it's one of those things, right,

01:00:34   where, like, we all do this.

01:00:36   We all change up what we use and how we use our products,

01:00:40   because it's what we do for a living.

01:00:43   We have to keep trying and finding new things.

01:00:45   It's, like, it's part -- We talk about this.

01:00:47   Like, we all try and mix stuff up as much as we can,

01:00:50   so we have the broadest knowledge possible,

01:00:53   and so it keeps us relevant.

01:00:55   And, you know, you wouldn't want to get rid of that display now

01:00:58   for then in, like, the end of the year.

01:01:01   Something's happened, and you're like,

01:01:03   "Oh, this is actually now the best way."

01:01:05   Like, because the MacPad for you

01:01:07   is, like, the best thing you use right now.

01:01:08   It's not going to be the best thing forever.

01:01:10   Like, something else could happen or come along,

01:01:12   and you'll be like, "Oh, here we go."

01:01:14   Like, if Apple does the thing

01:01:16   and, like, lets you put Mac OS on an iPad,

01:01:19   I mean, now we're into new territory again, you know?

01:01:21   Like, we never truly know what's going to happen.

01:01:24   -But even if they did -- So, this is what I was thinking.

01:01:26   So, say that iPad OS 18 enables Hypervisor.

01:01:29   You can create VMs.

01:01:31   You could replicate a lot of the software stuff

01:01:34   you're doing with this, right? Like, that GIF --

01:01:36   -Oh, it would be even better than what I'm doing now.

01:01:39   -Yeah, because then the Mac would just be an app in iPad OS.

01:01:43   And that GIF of you running Mac OS

01:01:45   and then you do the slide-over to get to iPad apps,

01:01:49   that was the moment I think a lot of people lost their minds.

01:01:52   But it would make the software better,

01:01:56   but then you'd have, like, the hardware question, right?

01:01:58   Like, "Okay, well, that's great,

01:02:00   but then I'm the Vision Pro keyboard trackpad thing,

01:02:04   which is how all this started."

01:02:06   That's not solved, again, right?

01:02:08   Like, you've done something here

01:02:10   that I don't think Apple's ever really ever going to do.

01:02:12   -Yep. -And that's because

01:02:15   it's a combination of hardware and software.

01:02:17   And if they just said, "Hey, you can now run a virtual Mac

01:02:20   on your iPad," that only gets you part of the way there.

01:02:22   -Exactly, exactly.

01:02:24   Like, it still doesn't fix the fact

01:02:25   that when you look at this headless computer,

01:02:29   it's a very nice keyboard and trackpad for the Vision Pro.

01:02:33   -Well, it's like, "Unless the new Magic keyboard for iPad

01:02:41   works with the Vision Pro, like, via Bluetooth or something."

01:02:44   -I mean, if they did that and added virtual Mac support

01:02:48   on the iPad Pro, then, yes, Apple has met you where you are.

01:02:52   -Which, I mean, let's say, like, if they do both of those things,

01:02:58   I don't know what reality we slipped into.

01:03:00   -Yeah, the one where Federico is king.

01:03:04   "Well, I'll be learning Italian."

01:03:06   -Steven said a second ago, like, mentioned that you made,

01:03:10   like, GIF, "May people be crazy," right?

01:03:11   Like, seeing Mac OS and iPad OS working together as one,

01:03:17   which I'm interested in, what has been the reaction

01:03:21   to the story in, like, the many places that it has found itself,

01:03:26   both in and out of your kind of, like, direct orbit?

01:03:31   -Yeah, so there's two things I want to say here.

01:03:32   The first one is, from a pure numeric standpoint,

01:03:38   the reaction has been wild,

01:03:40   and I can tell you that numbers alone,

01:03:44   it's performed better than launch day of an iOS review

01:03:49   that I do every year, and that review does really well.

01:03:53   This one, I think, because it has gone beyond the usual --

01:03:58   I told you guys, like, the usual bubble of websites

01:04:02   that may be linked to the iOS review,

01:04:04   people who talk about the iOS review,

01:04:07   it's been on the front page of Hacker News,

01:04:10   for better or worse.

01:04:11   It's been on the Apple subreddit,

01:04:13   and it's been picked up by other publications

01:04:15   that typically do not cover, you know,

01:04:18   Federico and his iOS and iPad OS review.

01:04:21   So, from a numbers standpoint,

01:04:23   it's gone well beyond my expectations.

01:04:28   And, obviously, people have loved it.

01:04:29   You know, there's been, you know,

01:04:32   a few critics here and there, but, by and large,

01:04:36   I think it's been very heartwarming

01:04:40   to see all the comments from people.

01:04:42   The second thing I want to say

01:04:43   is that I've seen some comments here and there,

01:04:46   seeing that this is a stunt, and I need to clarify something.

01:04:50   I don't think I made it clear enough.

01:04:54   Folks, this is my main computer now.

01:04:58   Like, I did this to my primary,

01:05:03   to my main M2 MacBook Air.

01:05:06   Like, I did this to my own computer.

01:05:08   I didn't buy a special computer for this.

01:05:11   I did this myself, to my own computer,

01:05:13   and I am now this thing on my desk with the magnets.

01:05:17   This is what I'm using,

01:05:19   and I plan on using it going forward.

01:05:21   I plan on coming to WWDC with this thing.

01:05:24   Like, this is my actual--

01:05:26   - Can you imagine trying to put that through TSA?

01:05:29   (all laughing)

01:05:31   - This is my actual main computer now.

01:05:34   This is not a stunt.

01:05:35   If it is a stunt, I'm living a stunt, I guess.

01:05:38   Like, this is my thing now.

01:05:40   It's my primary machine.

01:05:43   - I did, I had this moment when,

01:05:44   'cause you sent us the article a couple of days in advance

01:05:47   to just look through as you were getting ready to publish,

01:05:50   and I'm going through the article,

01:05:51   and I'm like, uh-huh, uh-huh,

01:05:52   and I'm waiting for the moment,

01:05:53   and the moment doesn't come,

01:05:55   of the computer that you used for this, right?

01:06:00   And then it dawns on me, it's like,

01:06:02   oh, that's Federico's laptop.

01:06:04   - Yeah, yeah.

01:06:06   - 'Cause I could see a scenario in which you were like,

01:06:08   I wanna do this thing, I'm gonna get another laptop

01:06:12   to do it on, because you could have destroyed

01:06:15   your computer, right?

01:06:16   - Yeah, oh yeah. - He just went for it.

01:06:18   He just went for it, he YOLOed it.

01:06:19   And then I was like, oh God, oh God, he did it.

01:06:23   Do you still have all the pieces, right?

01:06:25   - I do, in a plastic bag.

01:06:27   - Yeah, that's probably for the best.

01:06:28   You never know, right, you wanna keep it.

01:06:30   But yeah, I feel like,

01:06:32   I know that you're not stunting on everyone.

01:06:37   - Yeah, no, no, no.

01:06:39   - But like, I think people see this kind of stuff,

01:06:42   and it's like, we're content creators,

01:06:45   and sometimes it's as--

01:06:47   - Oh, you see, but there's a difference between,

01:06:50   oh, I spent $20,000 buying

01:06:55   the most expensive Mac Pro configuration you can get.

01:06:59   And then, obviously, you make the video,

01:07:01   and then you return the product, and you, you know.

01:07:03   Here, I actually destroyed my own computer,

01:07:07   and I built-- - Full commitment.

01:07:09   - There's no going back for me at this point.

01:07:13   And see, I told you, like, my philosophy here is,

01:07:18   I do these things because I like them, for me, personally.

01:07:25   And if they make for a good story, even better.

01:07:29   Because it means I was able to turn a passion of mine,

01:07:33   a fun thing I did, into something that also made money,

01:07:37   but also something that, you know,

01:07:40   and this is gonna sound so corny and cheesy, but I'm sorry.

01:07:43   Something that people will remember me by,

01:07:45   which is something that I always keep in mind.

01:07:49   And, you know, to leave something for other people.

01:07:53   And so, that's why--

01:07:55   - I don't want your legacy to be the Mac pad.

01:07:58   - I'd say it's fine, it's fine.

01:07:59   - I want your legacy to be your iOS reviews.

01:08:01   - That's what I want for you. - No, no.

01:08:05   But no, that's the point.

01:08:06   Legacy should be everything.

01:08:07   Like, it should be all the crazy, stupid things

01:08:11   I've done over the years.

01:08:12   It's, you know, you get the whole package.

01:08:14   - It's a body of work.

01:08:14   It's a body of work. - Yes, yes.

01:08:17   So, that's how I see it.

01:08:20   Like, I do these things because I have fun,

01:08:22   because I wanna push the conversation sometimes.

01:08:27   And if it makes for a good story, great.

01:08:31   It means I like my job.

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01:10:17   - Get ready for MacPad 2 powered by the M3.

01:10:23   (laughing)

01:10:24   - No, no, no, no, no.

01:10:27   - MacPad 2 powered by M3 MacBook Air

01:10:30   and upcoming OLED iPad Pro.

01:10:32   - No, MacPad 2 is just powered by OLED iPad Pro.

01:10:35   I don't want to get an M3 Air.

01:10:38   - Well, have you heard the news about Wi-Fi 6E?

01:10:41   - Well, for now I was gonna add.

01:10:43   - That's interesting.

01:10:44   I know you're all about Wi-Fi 6E these days.

01:10:46   This machine's got that in it, which I bet is pretty good.

01:10:49   - And it's also, or so I hear,

01:10:51   the best consumer laptop for AI.

01:10:53   - Oh, on the web.

01:10:54   (laughing)

01:10:56   - Oh my gosh, yeah.

01:10:57   - Let's back up, let's back up, Stephen.

01:10:58   - That uses Canva, let's go.

01:11:00   - What is the new MacBook Air?

01:11:01   - It is the previous MacBook Air,

01:11:05   but now with M3 instead of M2.

01:11:08   So 13 inch and 15 inch, same four colors,

01:11:11   although your beloved Midnight

01:11:13   now comes with the anti-fingerprint coating

01:11:16   that the space black MacBook Pro enjoys.

01:11:18   - Let me tell you, Stephen, all right,

01:11:20   the people that get that one, they're weaklings.

01:11:24   All right, if you can't deal with the fingerprints,

01:11:26   you don't deserve Midnight.

01:11:28   - Wow.

01:11:29   - That's what I say.

01:11:29   - Wow.

01:11:30   - It's like, what is that thing?

01:11:31   If you can't take my worst, you don't deserve my best?

01:11:36   That's how I feel about this, all right?

01:11:38   Midnight is great, it deserves the fingerprints, it's fine.

01:11:42   - Okay, so it's the same MacBook Air we all know and love.

01:11:47   There is one change here that is also coming

01:11:51   to the 14 inch M3 MacBook Pro,

01:11:54   the one that doesn't have the USB-C port on the right side,

01:11:57   just the base M3.

01:11:58   It can run dual, that's two, external displays

01:12:03   if the lid is closed.

01:12:06   - Yeah.

01:12:07   - Which I think is great, that's a good improvement.

01:12:09   It was a very common complaint, they fixed it now,

01:12:11   that's fantastic.

01:12:13   - Why did they wait though?

01:12:15   - I don't know.

01:12:15   - For the people that bought the MacBook Pro?

01:12:17   - Well, they're gonna fix it now, it's fine.

01:12:18   - They're gonna fix it now, but like, you know--

01:12:21   - It's a speed bump, I think,

01:12:24   in terms of the Apple Silicon transition,

01:12:25   like it's not the end of the world.

01:12:27   - Yeah, like I understand what,

01:12:29   I feel like I understand they did ship,

01:12:31   but I feel like what, it's like they just fixed it

01:12:33   last week, like, oh, finally, we just got it over the line.

01:12:37   - Maybe, I don't even think it's in the current

01:12:39   Sonoma Beta, which, I don't know.

01:12:43   Anyways, I've actually only had one of those,

01:12:45   I've only had time with only one of those M3 MacBook Pros.

01:12:48   It's kind of weird, you look down the side,

01:12:49   it's like, oh, you're missing a USB-C port, there you go.

01:12:53   A couple other things that changed when this got announced,

01:12:56   the M1 MacBook Air is no longer for sale

01:13:01   and like, we salute our friend on the way out the door,

01:13:05   because the M1 Air, such a good machine,

01:13:08   I think it was really the, really the,

01:13:11   like, this is Apple Silicon, it is here, right?

01:13:15   It came out with the Touch Bar MacBook Pro and the Mac Mini,

01:13:18   but the M1 Air, to a lot of people,

01:13:20   experienced Apple Silicon for the first time.

01:13:23   And honestly, I think it was one of the best improvements,

01:13:25   'cause that Intel MacBook Air was like,

01:13:27   loud and hot all the time.

01:13:28   - It also means, Stephen, that you have lost

01:13:31   one of your flexes for the annual, the 2024 annual picks.

01:13:36   - Oh no, what is it? - Really?

01:13:38   - You said in the flexes, the M1 MacBook Air

01:13:41   is still on sale at the end of the year.

01:13:43   - Oh no. - Whoops.

01:13:46   - Wow, that happened fast.

01:13:48   - That did happen fast.

01:13:50   - So this has been like a 14-year design, right?

01:13:54   - It's red in the document, I just looked.

01:13:57   - That's why Federico was asking about where it was.

01:14:00   - Yeah, good call.

01:14:03   - So they introduced this design of the MacBook Air

01:14:05   in like 2010, and like, I feel like,

01:14:08   while they tweaked it, it was realistically the same, right?

01:14:11   - Really, like '08, like really,

01:14:13   the MacBook Air has always been wedge-shaped, you know?

01:14:15   - Yeah, but it had the little drop-down door.

01:14:17   - Yeah, no, it was weird, that was a weird computer.

01:14:19   - 'Cause it feels like, really, all that changed

01:14:21   from the 2010 to now was they got rid

01:14:24   of the silver bezels around them.

01:14:27   - Yeah, I mean, the exact design came out in 2018,

01:14:30   so that's what, six years?

01:14:31   I mean, still around for a long time.

01:14:33   There's a thing on the verge of like,

01:14:34   I already missed the wedge shape,

01:14:35   it's like, that's fine, I get it,

01:14:37   but the M2 design language, the MacBook Air is so good,

01:14:42   and now, like, as good as the deal is the M1 MacBook Air was

01:14:47   at $999 or $899 for education, the M2 Air is even better.

01:14:52   Like, that is such a good computer,

01:14:54   and you get MagSafe on the cheapest laptop now,

01:14:59   which frees up one of your ports all the time.

01:15:01   So all that sort of got shifted around,

01:15:04   and that's great, 13 and 15-inch are both now,

01:15:09   M3, ready to go, and I think this sort of,

01:15:14   I mean, we'll see, like, there's still some M2 stuff

01:15:16   floating around out there, like the Mac Mini,

01:15:19   but I think this closes the chapter probably

01:15:22   on some of the weird timelines we saw

01:15:25   with Apple's notebook line, 'cause like,

01:15:29   like my, I have an M2 Pro, MacBook Pro,

01:15:32   it was for sale less than a year,

01:15:34   because they, or about a year,

01:15:36   'cause it was like the beginning of '23,

01:15:38   and then they had the October event

01:15:40   when they went from M2 to M3.

01:15:41   Like, the M2 13-inch MacBook Air was on sale

01:15:45   for a long time, the 15-inch kind of came out mid-cycle.

01:15:49   I think this probably evens all that out from here on out.

01:15:52   I do wonder why we haven't had an M3 Mac Mini.

01:15:57   That's now kind of the odd machine out, but.

01:16:00   - I don't think they, no, I don't, yeah.

01:16:02   - You think they noticed?

01:16:03   Like, oh no, it's all for sale.

01:16:04   - It's like, you know, Mac Mini, we love you, but.

01:16:07   - Yeah, and I think it's fine for the Mac Mini

01:16:09   to kind of be step behind, also the step behind

01:16:14   for the, on the Mac Studio, right?

01:16:18   There's still some odd stuff, and my point is,

01:16:20   I think the notebook line now kind of makes sense again,

01:16:23   and I think this is great.

01:16:25   I mean, the MacBook Air's awesome,

01:16:27   and it just keeps getting better and better.

01:16:29   - Now do that to the iPad instead.

01:16:31   - Now, any day now. - Well, maybe next week,

01:16:32   right, I mean, I guess, right, like next week, hopefully.

01:16:36   Like, I don't think there's gonna be an event

01:16:38   that doesn't make any,

01:16:39   it doesn't really make any sense for me to have one.

01:16:42   Even if these iPads are really great,

01:16:43   I think they could kind of just press release it,

01:16:45   but we'll see, you never know.

01:16:47   I just, I will just underscore what Stephen's saying,

01:16:51   like $999 starting price for the M2 MacBook Air is so good.

01:16:56   Like, I use one every day, so just,

01:16:59   Federico uses half the one every day.

01:17:00   - Same.

01:17:01   - Not same.

01:17:03   - I use, I use a. - Me and you are not the same.

01:17:06   - I've used $500 worth of it, at least.

01:17:09   - I have $400 in a plastic bag,

01:17:14   and the rest I use, but with magnets.

01:17:17   I adore my MacBook Air.

01:17:19   Like, I love it so much, I started putting stickers on it.

01:17:22   Which is a thing I have not done.

01:17:26   I've not done it in a long time,

01:17:27   but like, me and this MacBook Air,

01:17:29   we're in a long-term committed relationship.

01:17:31   Like, I'm not getting rid of that thing for ages.

01:17:34   Like, I saw this M3 once, like, oh, it looks really great,

01:17:37   but like, I'm not even nearly tempted,

01:17:38   'cause like, the things that it has seem great,

01:17:41   but are not for me.

01:17:42   Like, I don't need an M3,

01:17:44   I don't need two external displays,

01:17:47   and I don't need Wi-Fi 6E,

01:17:48   'cause I don't, I do not wanna upgrade the hardware,

01:17:52   and I don't really need it.

01:17:53   But at some point, I will.

01:17:55   Like, in a few years down the line,

01:17:56   I think I will go to like, Wi-Fi 6E or Wi-Fi 7

01:17:59   or something at home,

01:18:01   and then it would make more sense for me to do this,

01:18:03   but maybe time M4, M5 comes around,

01:18:06   I might be more interested.

01:18:07   But yeah, I just, the M2 MacBook Air is just like, so great.

01:18:11   And now to have that in 9.99,

01:18:13   and then to have the improved one at 10.99,

01:18:16   I think is awesome.

01:18:18   And it's just, I'm happy that like,

01:18:20   now the MacBook Air looks one way,

01:18:22   like it's just easier to understand the product.

01:18:25   So yeah, pretty, really cool.

01:18:27   They've done the thing that we wanted them to do.

01:18:29   I think, as Steven would attest,

01:18:31   faster than we thought they would do it, right?

01:18:34   To make the M2 MacBook Air just like, the MacBook Air,

01:18:37   and that there isn't anything else below it.

01:18:40   I would like to read from eWorld.social,

01:18:45   where Steven Hackett says,

01:18:47   "I'm loving having a 14-inch MacBook Pro as my only machine,

01:18:51   but I do miss carrying a MacBook Air,

01:18:53   as I did when I had a Mac Studio."

01:18:55   It's happening, boys, stand by.

01:19:00   The key part of this sentence is that "but."

01:19:03   See, that's, you look at those three letters

01:19:06   and you know what's gonna happen.

01:19:08   Yep. Yeah.

01:19:08   The buts have begun.

01:19:10   Yeah.

01:19:11   We all know what that means.

01:19:12   We all know what that means, any day now.

01:19:16   So Steven, did you buy a MacBook Air yet?

01:19:18   No.

01:19:20   Okay.

01:19:21   So why did you type those three letters?

01:19:22   Yeah, what is the "but" for?

01:19:25   Just had a feeling, you know?

01:19:27   Feelings aren't real unless you put them on social media.

01:19:29   Yeah.

01:19:30   Yep.

01:19:31   Well, we'll see what happens there.

01:19:33   I'm still waiting for the Mac Studio whenever they do that,

01:19:36   but again, I still hope it's a little bit later on this year,

01:19:38   but I do hope that they do it. I bet it's WBC.

01:19:41   Or maybe that's one of those things they do

01:19:43   like the week before to kind of clear out the pipes.

01:19:46   'Cause that's the computer that has my name on it,

01:19:49   to replace my M1 MacBook Pro that I use for recording.

01:19:53   I think it'll be a nice upgrade for me,

01:19:55   and then I can have a bit of stability for years,

01:19:58   I think, with that machine.

01:19:59   Will you miss the touch bar?

01:20:00   I don't have a touch bar.

01:20:03   You have an M1 MacBook Pro?

01:20:05   Then I don't have that.

01:20:07   I have something else.

01:20:08   I have the 14-inch MacBook Pro.

01:20:10   That doesn't have a touch bar.

01:20:12   Oh, so you have an M1 Pro or Macs, not the base?

01:20:15   Sure.

01:20:16   Not the base one.

01:20:17   What are you talking about, Steven?

01:20:18   The base M1 MacBook Pro had a touch bar,

01:20:21   and then the other ones didn't.

01:20:23   Yeah, but you know I didn't buy that.

01:20:24   I don't remember.

01:20:26   Yeah, but you're just like, you should intuit that,

01:20:28   that I didn't buy that computer.

01:20:30   I didn't remember.

01:20:31   So for all this time,

01:20:31   you thought Mike was using a touch bar?

01:20:33   Maybe.

01:20:34   I'm just sitting there.

01:20:34   Woo, here we go, some emoji.

01:20:36   He's just swiping over there.

01:20:38   He's just touching away, touching the bar.

01:20:40   There was also some new iPhone cases and Apple Watch bands.

01:20:46   They kind of do this on some seasons.

01:20:49   Noticeably no fine woven updates.

01:20:53   It was all the silicon stuff got updated, so.

01:20:56   Yeah, I mean, what do you expect?

01:20:57   To be fair to fine woven,

01:20:59   would they update the leather

01:21:01   and these mid-cycle refreshes?

01:21:03   I don't know.

01:21:04   Oh, that's a good question.

01:21:06   'Cause I'm thinking they didn't.

01:21:08   Like that the leather was pretty consistent

01:21:11   and so like in colors and stuff, so.

01:21:13   Michael Hurley coming out of this podcast episode,

01:21:16   straight up defending the touch bar and fine woven cases.

01:21:21   I'm going for the populous vote now, that's me.

01:21:24   Fine woven touch bar, that's my platform.

01:21:27   Cool, okay.

01:21:29   I'm gonna build on that now.

01:21:30   New iPhone cases.

01:21:33   I want more ultra bands, that's what I want.

01:21:36   I like the one, the trail loop.

01:21:38   I would like more color options.

01:21:40   Yeah, they didn't do it last time either.

01:21:43   They've only updated the bands when there's a new phone.

01:21:45   And so maybe that's just how it's gonna be.

01:21:49   Okay, I can't find what Apple did in 2023

01:21:53   because looking for like new iPhone cases

01:21:55   on Google is useless.

01:21:57   Surely the venerable Mac stories would have it.

01:22:01   I put that in my search and it was not helpful.

01:22:04   We failed, we failed.

01:22:08   New iPhone 14 Silicon cases.

01:22:10   So it doesn't look like they did leather last year.

01:22:13   I just searched new case on Mac stories

01:22:15   and was taken to March 7th, 2023,

01:22:19   Apple announces yellow iPhone 14 and 14 plus.

01:22:22   So we didn't get a new phone color

01:22:24   and they had Silicon cases only.

01:22:26   Silicon cases only.

01:22:26   So maybe this is not a fine woven situation.

01:22:30   No, maybe not, maybe not.

01:22:31   Boy, they're bad.

01:22:33   I don't think the fine woven

01:22:34   is enjoying its stay in the sun.

01:22:36   Did you see the Joanna Stern thing?

01:22:39   Yeah, I saw that.

01:22:40   Yeah, that looked real bad, looked real bad.

01:22:43   It looked pretty gross.

01:22:45   I'm gonna, maybe this will be a pick for September.

01:22:49   I don't think they will do any more fine woven cases.

01:22:52   But do you think they will replace it with something

01:22:54   or do you think that it's like--

01:22:56   Something like, yeah, I said it's a lot like a fake leather

01:22:59   that it's not called fake leather,

01:23:01   but something like a fine, I don't know, fine surface.

01:23:06   I don't know how to call it, but yeah, not this material.

01:23:09   I think that they just, if I was them,

01:23:12   just do Silicon, like just leave it.

01:23:14   Or maybe that, or maybe that.

01:23:15   Yeah, I think the money they make on those higher end cases

01:23:19   is pretty hard to turn down there.

01:23:21   Yeah, but like, I don't know,

01:23:25   make Silicon Pro or something, you know,

01:23:28   and put metal buttons on the Silicon case

01:23:29   to put texture on it or something, you know.

01:23:32   Make hard plastic cases and whichever will enjoy it.

01:23:37   But yeah, but I don't know.

01:23:39   I don't see it, but we'll see.

01:23:42   Maybe if nobody's buying fine woven,

01:23:44   then there's no money to miss.

01:23:46   It's true.

01:23:47   I think that does it for this week.

01:23:50   If you want to find links to the stuff we spoke about,

01:23:52   head on over to the website, relay.fm/ungeniust.

01:23:56   Good grief, that's a different podcast.

01:24:00   Amazing, amazing.

01:24:02   Go over to relay.fm/connected/492.

01:24:07   There's also a link to join and get Connected Pro,

01:24:11   which is a longer ad-free version of the show

01:24:13   that we do each and every week.

01:24:15   Members also get access to a couple of members only podcasts,

01:24:19   a newsletter, the Discord, lots of great stuff

01:24:21   waiting for you with a relay membership.

01:24:24   Go check it out.

01:24:26   You can find us online.

01:24:27   You can find Federico at maxstories.net

01:24:30   where he's the editor-in-chief.

01:24:32   And I think now lead hardware hacker at Max Stories.

01:24:37   Yep.

01:24:39   Modstories.net, you can go check that out.

01:24:42   Don't go to that URL.

01:24:42   I don't know what it is.

01:24:43   I'm going there, I'm going there, Mod Stories.

01:24:47   Safari can't find server.

01:24:49   Okay, well, someone could buy it

01:24:51   and point it at the MacPad story, I guess.

01:24:54   You can find Federico on social media at Vatici on Threads

01:24:59   and Vatici at maxstories.net over on Mastodon.

01:25:02   You can find Mike's work all over relay.fm.

01:25:05   He's on a whole bunch of shows.

01:25:06   He also does amazing work over at Cortex Brand.

01:25:09   You can follow him as imike@mike.social on Mastodon

01:25:13   or on Threads as imike.

01:25:15   You can find my writing on 512pixels.net

01:25:18   and I co-host Mac Power Users here on relay.fm

01:25:21   each and every Sunday.

01:25:22   You can follow me. And a genius.

01:25:24   And a genius every other Tuesday.

01:25:26   (laughing)

01:25:28   I don't know where that came from.

01:25:31   It really, of all of them chose to pick.

01:25:32   I know, I know.

01:25:33   That was the strangest one.

01:25:35   That was the strangest one.

01:25:37   It's a great show, you go check it out.

01:25:38   Each episode's like nine minutes long.

01:25:40   Yeah.

01:25:41   You can follow me on Threads as ismh86

01:25:44   or on Mastodon ismh@eworld.social.

01:25:49   I'd like to thank our sponsors this week

01:25:51   for making the show possible.

01:25:52   ShipStation, NetSuite, and Squarespace.

01:25:55   And until next time, say goodbye.

01:25:58   I do that too.

01:25:59   Cheerio.

01:26:00   Bye, y'all.

01:26:01   [BLANK_AUDIO]