Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to Connected episode 490.

00:00:12 ◼   ► My name is Steven Hackett and I have the pleasure

00:00:14 ◼   ► of being joined by Mike Hurley.

00:00:17 ◼   ► Hey Mike.

00:00:17 ◼   ► It is a pleasure.

00:00:19 ◼   ► I'm so happy to be here.

00:00:21 ◼   ► And I also have the pleasure of being joined

00:00:23 ◼   ► by Federico Vittucci.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Ciao Federico.

00:00:25 ◼   ► Ciao, it is also a pleasure for me.

00:00:27 ◼   ► We're all very pleasured.

00:00:29 ◼   ► I think.

00:00:30 ◼   ► People say this is the most pleasurable podcast.

00:00:33 ◼   ► They say that.

00:00:34 ◼   ► They say that.

00:00:35 ◼   ► We got, a lot of people are saying that.

00:00:38 ◼   ► They send us email to like,

00:00:39 ◼   ► "Hey, your podcast is so pleasurable."

00:00:42 ◼   ► Such so pleasurable for me, I love it.

00:00:45 ◼   ► You actually would not believe the amount of emails we get

00:00:48 ◼   ► where people say, "This is a pleasurable podcast."

00:00:51 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:00:52 ◼   ► So take that other tech shows.

00:00:55 ◼   ► Take that other tech shows.

00:00:55 ◼   ► Speaking of which, podcast in the shower.

00:00:59 ◼   ► Podcast in the shower.

00:01:01 ◼   ► So I ran a little poll on Mastodon asking,

00:01:04 ◼   ► "Do you listen to podcasts in the shower?"

00:01:08 ◼   ► Can you remind me why?

00:01:10 ◼   ► Because I feel like I can only half remember

00:01:12 ◼   ► why this is a thing that you wanted to do.

00:01:14 ◼   ► I think I mentioned that I do it

00:01:16 ◼   ► and someone in Discord or one of you

00:01:18 ◼   ► thought I was bananas.

00:01:20 ◼   ► We were talking about something with you in the bath.

00:01:25 ◼   ► Yes.

00:01:26 ◼   ► And you had a thing you were doing

00:01:29 ◼   ► with your phone on a shelf, cases.

00:01:34 ◼   ► We were talking about cases.

00:01:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:39 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:01:40 ◼   ► Why do you use a case?

00:01:41 ◼   ► Because you're worried you're gonna drop your phone?

00:01:43 ◼   ► I don't want it to slide across the sink.

00:01:46 ◼   ► There you go.

00:01:48 ◼   ► The grip, the grip, you wanted grip.

00:01:49 ◼   ► That's all right, you need that grip.

00:01:51 ◼   ► And so 1,247 people voted on Mastodon.

00:01:56 ◼   ► 42% of people said yes,

00:02:02 ◼   ► I do listen to podcasts in the shower.

00:02:04 ◼   ► 58% of people said no, I do not.

00:02:08 ◼   ► So I think that there should be a third,

00:02:11 ◼   ► it's too late now, which is I would like to.

00:02:13 ◼   ► So I would like to listen to podcasts in the shower,

00:02:18 ◼   ► but in my new shower, in my new house--

00:02:21 ◼   ► Stop the count!

00:02:23 ◼   ► Stop the count, stop the count.

00:02:24 ◼   ► It's time to stop the count.

00:02:26 ◼   ► But I can't, in my new shower,

00:02:28 ◼   ► I can't hear the podcasts anymore is the problem.

00:02:31 ◼   ► 'Cause I have like a cubicle,

00:02:33 ◼   ► and I don't have a space in the cubicle to put my phone,

00:02:35 ◼   ► where my phone won't just be literally in a pool of water.

00:02:38 ◼   ► Although there were some replies to this post

00:02:42 ◼   ► where I was like, oh, that's a smart idea.

00:02:43 ◼   ► Like people building shelves, shelves?

00:02:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:48 ◼   ► Shelving?

00:02:48 ◼   ► But I don't think that would fly at home,

00:02:50 ◼   ► which probably for good reason.

00:02:51 ◼   ► We had a couple of things.

00:02:53 ◼   ► We had someone write in, they're just putting their phone

00:02:56 ◼   ► on top of like the edge of the shower.

00:02:58 ◼   ► That's a terrible idea.

00:02:59 ◼   ► Your phone's gonna explode.

00:03:00 ◼   ► Look, I'm a professional phone breaker.

00:03:03 ◼   ► This phone is going to break.

00:03:05 ◼   ► Other people had like sticky things on the wall,

00:03:08 ◼   ► they mount their phone in.

00:03:09 ◼   ► Look, it's way simpler than that.

00:03:10 ◼   ► All you need is a waterproof Bluetooth speaker.

00:03:15 ◼   ► I have one in the show notes from JBL.

00:03:17 ◼   ► I happen to own the old version of this.

00:03:19 ◼   ► I got it for free in something at some point years ago.

00:03:23 ◼   ► I've run it forever.

00:03:25 ◼   ► It's great.

00:03:26 ◼   ► So I can Bluetooth it.

00:03:27 ◼   ► My phone can stay safe and sound on the edge of the sink

00:03:29 ◼   ► thanks to the little leather nomad thing,

00:03:31 ◼   ► keeping it safe and sound.

00:03:33 ◼   ► And I can listen in the shower.

00:03:35 ◼   ► It's great.

00:03:36 ◼   ► Don't put your phone in the shower with you.

00:03:37 ◼   ► That's weird.

00:03:38 ◼   ► That's too far.

00:03:39 ◼   ► Why?

00:03:40 ◼   ► Why is that weird?

00:03:41 ◼   ► 'Cause you're in the shower.

00:03:42 ◼   ► You don't want your phone in there.

00:03:43 ◼   ► What has that got to do with anything?

00:03:45 ◼   ► It's supposed to be clean.

00:03:46 ◼   ► What if your mom FaceTimes you

00:03:47 ◼   ► and you accidentally answer, you know?

00:03:49 ◼   ► Why would you accidentally answer?

00:03:51 ◼   ► Why would you do that? It's slippery.

00:03:51 ◼   ► Your hands are wet, you know?

00:03:54 ◼   ► You're gesturing wildly listening to ATP

00:03:56 ◼   ► and then suddenly you're talking to your mom.

00:03:58 ◼   ► I don't think this would happen to me.

00:04:00 ◼   ► There's only one way to find out.

00:04:03 ◼   ► You call me and see what happens.

00:04:05 ◼   ► I have to have an experiment.

00:04:07 ◼   ► So I'm putting this in the show notes, the JBL thing.

00:04:13 ◼   ► And instead of waterproof, I wrote shower proof.

00:04:16 ◼   ► I mean. That's not right.

00:04:18 ◼   ► It kind of good though.

00:04:19 ◼   ► It is. It kind of is.

00:04:21 ◼   ► But also that's not what people are looking for.

00:04:23 ◼   ► I think shower proof.

00:04:25 ◼   ► Probably not.

00:04:26 ◼   ► So anyways, look, I get it.

00:04:30 ◼   ► Sometimes your acoustics may not be good.

00:04:32 ◼   ► My shower is not very big.

00:04:34 ◼   ► So I can feel like it works.

00:04:36 ◼   ► Maybe mine has a glass door,

00:04:38 ◼   ► but maybe if you're showering like in a, you know,

00:04:41 ◼   ► like a shower tub or using the shower curtain,

00:04:43 ◼   ► maybe your acoustics would be better with that.

00:04:45 ◼   ► I will say, due to experimentation,

00:04:49 ◼   ► the audio is much better in my shower

00:04:52 ◼   ► if I put my towel over the door.

00:04:54 ◼   ► So there's like some soft material,

00:04:56 ◼   ► like hanging over the door into the shower.

00:05:00 ◼   ► Does that make sense?

00:05:02 ◼   ► I don't think so.

00:05:03 ◼   ► Okay, so I have my shower's tiled in

00:05:06 ◼   ► and there's a glass door that swings open.

00:05:09 ◼   ► And usually the towel's hanging on the wall

00:05:11 ◼   ► outside of the shower, right?

00:05:12 ◼   ► So I get out of the shower, like open the door a little bit,

00:05:14 ◼   ► stick my arm out and grab the towel.

00:05:17 ◼   ► But if I take the towel and put it over the door,

00:05:20 ◼   ► so it's like hanging half in the shower,

00:05:23 ◼   ► half out of the shower,

00:05:25 ◼   ► that fabric hanging in the shower

00:05:27 ◼   ► greatly approves shower acoustics.

00:05:29 ◼   ► Okay, interesting.

00:05:32 ◼   ► You don't have to buy a sound panel for your shower.

00:05:35 ◼   ► Just put a towel.

00:05:36 ◼   ► But it wouldn't hurt.

00:05:38 ◼   ► Wouldn't it?

00:05:38 ◼   ► If you want optimal results, that's what you need to do.

00:05:44 ◼   ► That's the end of the shower cast.

00:05:45 ◼   ► Thank you for coming.

00:05:46 ◼   ► I'm so happy.

00:05:47 ◼   ► I have a question for the both of you.

00:05:50 ◼   ► What are you, if anything, using for RSS on Vision Pro?

00:05:55 ◼   ► Yeah, there's no great native experience at the moment.

00:06:00 ◼   ► I'm just using Lire, that's L-I-R-E, in compatibility mode.

00:06:05 ◼   ► That's my main RSS client on other platforms

00:06:08 ◼   ► and the iPad app is available in compatibility mode.

00:06:11 ◼   ► So that's what I use with iNoReader Sync.

00:06:14 ◼   ► I actually think even compatibility mode is fine.

00:06:17 ◼   ► Like that's totally fine.

00:06:18 ◼   ► Yeah, it's fine.

00:06:19 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:06:20 ◼   ► That's what I use.

00:06:22 ◼   ► Typically in portrait mode,

00:06:23 ◼   ► so it's nice on one side of my workspace, yeah.

00:06:26 ◼   ► I am missing currently, big time, Reader and Timery.

00:06:31 ◼   ► They are both heartbreakers for me

00:06:33 ◼   ► that they're not even in compatibility mode.

00:06:36 ◼   ► And it's making me very sad

00:06:37 ◼   ► 'cause these are two apps that I would like to use

00:06:41 ◼   ► and I can't and it's bugging me

00:06:44 ◼   ► 'cause I think especially Timery because I'm doing stuff

00:06:47 ◼   ► and I'm like, I don't even think about having a timer set.

00:06:50 ◼   ► And then I'm like, oh man, I didn't set a timer.

00:06:53 ◼   ► Well, so I want these apps to exist.

00:06:55 ◼   ► They don't, I don't know what's happening

00:06:57 ◼   ► and either of them, but I want them to be there.

00:06:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:01 ◼   ► And we'll give a shout out to the one true gamer.

00:07:04 ◼   ► That is John Voorhees.

00:07:05 ◼   ► From OTJ to OTG.

00:07:07 ◼   ► OTG.

00:07:09 ◼   ► O-G-O-G-J.

00:07:10 ◼   ► I feel like this was a thing where,

00:07:13 ◼   ► because Federico was delayed for a week with his Vision Pro,

00:07:17 ◼   ► John had to pick up the mantle and run with it

00:07:20 ◼   ► to make the comprehensive guide to gaming

00:07:22 ◼   ► on the Apple Vision Pro.

00:07:23 ◼   ► It's a really great article.

00:07:24 ◼   ► There's loads of interesting tidbits in there.

00:07:26 ◼   ► There's some things that I've downloaded

00:07:28 ◼   ► that I wanna try out,

00:07:28 ◼   ► like the PlayStation mirroring thing,

00:07:31 ◼   ► which is the thing I'd heard about years ago.

00:07:34 ◼   ► Like this app's been around forever, right?

00:07:36 ◼   ► And, or at least a version of it has been MirrorPlay,

00:07:39 ◼   ► but I've never really used it,

00:07:40 ◼   ► but I feel like this could be a really good reason to use it.

00:07:43 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:07:45 ◼   ► It also, and I think John wrote about this,

00:07:47 ◼   ► I sort of blacked out towards the end of the story

00:07:49 ◼   ► 'cause there were a lot of gaming screenshots.

00:07:51 ◼   ► It gets, well, it also, the further the article goes,

00:07:56 ◼   ► the more unconventional (laughs)

00:07:59 ◼   ► I think I would say the methods become.

00:08:02 ◼   ► Yeah, at some point he's talking about his Wi-Fi network,

00:08:04 ◼   ► you know, gaming Wi-Fi, it's all the rage.

00:08:07 ◼   ► Gaming Wi-Fi, everyone's doing it.

00:08:08 ◼   ► But it would be cool if the developer strap would,

00:08:11 ◼   ► like, I want that thing to do everything, right?

00:08:14 ◼   ► Like we want ethernet from it,

00:08:16 ◼   ► we want video in and video out.

00:08:19 ◼   ► Like, just put some ports on things.

00:08:20 ◼   ► It doesn't ever hurt anybody.

00:08:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, if only,

00:08:24 ◼   ► if that theory, the developer strap,

00:08:26 ◼   ► can do more than what it's currently doing,

00:08:29 ◼   ► but it's locked in software,

00:08:30 ◼   ► I really hope that Apple makes that

00:08:32 ◼   ► like a proper Thunderbolt port.

00:08:35 ◼   ► Because honestly, like with ethernet,

00:08:37 ◼   ► it will fix up basically most of the problems

00:08:41 ◼   ► when it comes to game streaming to the Vision Pro, right?

00:08:44 ◼   ► I mean, if you can have ethernet speeds on that thing,

00:08:47 ◼   ► whether you wanna stream PS5 or Xbox or PC,

00:08:50 ◼   ► like, that's gonna be not an issue.

00:08:52 ◼   ► The Vision Pro doesn't have Wi-Fi 6E, unfortunately,

00:08:55 ◼   ► so it's locked to Wi-Fi 6.

00:08:57 ◼   ► And I'm finding that I consistently get worse performance

00:09:02 ◼   ► with Wi-Fi on the Vision Pro

00:09:04 ◼   ► than, say, my iPad Pro, for example.

00:09:06 ◼   ► So I want to believe that maybe in Vision OS 2.0 or something

00:09:10 ◼   ► they will unlock the true potential

00:09:12 ◼   ► of the developer strap.

00:09:13 ◼   ► Let me plug an ethernet adapter in that thing.

00:09:18 ◼   ► Come on, please.

00:09:19 ◼   ► But yeah, it's a great story.

00:09:21 ◼   ► John spent a lot of money and did a lot of research

00:09:24 ◼   ► to find all the possible options right now.

00:09:27 ◼   ► Of course, as soon as we published that,

00:09:29 ◼   ► we noticed that there's a test flight beta

00:09:34 ◼   ► for a native version of Moonlight.

00:09:38 ◼   ► So if you are a PC gamer and you wanna stream games

00:09:42 ◼   ► from your PC to your Vision Pro,

00:09:44 ◼   ► there's a Vision OS test flight for Moonlight,

00:09:47 ◼   ► which is the client for PC streaming.

00:09:50 ◼   ► Gonna leave some links in the show notes.

00:09:52 ◼   ► And the test flight is currently open,

00:09:54 ◼   ► so you can just click a link and start testing it.

00:09:56 ◼   ► We got a couple of small topics to handle here

00:10:00 ◼   ► at the beginning of the show.

00:10:02 ◼   ► The first one is more battery, who dis?

00:10:05 ◼   ► So this is a report from Chance Miller.

00:10:08 ◼   ► I'm just gonna read this

00:10:10 ◼   ► because I don't understand how this happened.

00:10:14 ◼   ► This is Chance.

00:10:15 ◼   ► Apple initially said that the iPhone 15's battery

00:10:18 ◼   ► would retain up to 80% of its original capacity

00:10:21 ◼   ► at 500 complete charge cycles.

00:10:24 ◼   ► Now the company tells 9to5Mac that the iPhone 15

00:10:27 ◼   ► can retain 80% of its original capacity

00:10:30 ◼   ► at 1,000 complete charge cycles.

00:10:33 ◼   ► That's awesome.

00:10:35 ◼   ► That's great news for longevity of these devices.

00:10:37 ◼   ► But why is Apple discovered this now?

00:10:41 ◼   ► I have so many questions.

00:10:43 ◼   ► - It is peculiar.

00:10:45 ◼   ► - So I guess what we are seeing here

00:10:47 ◼   ► is that sometimes a recount does work.

00:10:51 ◼   ► - Is that? - Yeah, I guess.

00:10:53 ◼   ► - I think so. - Yeah.

00:10:54 ◼   ► - I think that's what it's saying.

00:10:55 ◼   ► - I think so.

00:10:56 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:10:57 ◼   ► - This comes in conjunction with some changes

00:10:59 ◼   ► coming in iOS 17.4.

00:11:01 ◼   ► It's like, boy, does 17.4 win the award

00:11:05 ◼   ► for the biggest point update ever to iOS?

00:11:07 ◼   ► Like, I think it might.

00:11:08 ◼   ► It's just, there's so much stuff going on.

00:11:10 ◼   ► But a change coming to the battery

00:11:13 ◼   ► and battery health screen.

00:11:15 ◼   ► Which remember, this was added several years ago.

00:11:17 ◼   ► There was the dust up about Apple throttling

00:11:21 ◼   ► the performance of phones.

00:11:22 ◼   ► There was a class action lawsuit.

00:11:24 ◼   ► All these things happened.

00:11:26 ◼   ► Now in 17.4, if you go into the battery screen and settings,

00:11:31 ◼   ► you will see two new menus.

00:11:34 ◼   ► One called battery health

00:11:36 ◼   ► and one called charging optimization.

00:11:38 ◼   ► And in that change, you can now see,

00:11:41 ◼   ► without having to drill down, your battery health status.

00:11:45 ◼   ► So if it says normal, then you're all set.

00:11:49 ◼   ► And if you want more detail, then you can tap in further

00:11:52 ◼   ► and you can still see the percentage, right?

00:11:54 ◼   ► So Mary actually just went through this

00:11:56 ◼   ► with her iPhone 13 mini,

00:11:58 ◼   ► where her battery life was really bad.

00:12:00 ◼   ► I went into the battery health thing

00:12:03 ◼   ► and it turns out she was at like 78% original capacity.

00:12:08 ◼   ► And that was low enough where the Apple store

00:12:10 ◼   ► replaced the battery for free for her,

00:12:13 ◼   ► under AppleCare, which was really cool.

00:12:15 ◼   ► This phone now has also has gotten a new screen

00:12:17 ◼   ► and a new battery.

00:12:18 ◼   ► It's like a whole new iPhone 13 mini.

00:12:21 ◼   ► But this makes it a little bit easier,

00:12:22 ◼   ► a little bit less digging to kind of see what's going on.

00:12:24 ◼   ► And I think that's good because before,

00:12:27 ◼   ► you just got a percentage without much context, right?

00:12:30 ◼   ► It's like, well, is 80% good?

00:12:32 ◼   ► Is 80% bad?

00:12:33 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:12:34 ◼   ► And so they're trying to, I think, better educate people

00:12:37 ◼   ► about how their batteries are actually doing.

00:12:41 ◼   ► - So nine to five Mac on fire right now.

00:12:44 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:12:44 ◼   ► - It's like left and right piece of information.

00:12:47 ◼   ► This one, they got through Waze,

00:12:51 ◼   ► some information about some sizing of the next iPads.

00:12:56 ◼   ► And I wanna specifically just talk about the iPad Pro

00:12:59 ◼   ► 'cause it's the most interesting

00:13:01 ◼   ► because we have comparisons.

00:13:03 ◼   ► Essentially the piece of information to know

00:13:06 ◼   ► is that the iPad Pros are all gonna be getting

00:13:08 ◼   ► a little bit bigger by a few millimeters,

00:13:10 ◼   ► but also thinner.

00:13:12 ◼   ► So the 11 inch will be going from 5.9 to 5.1 millimeters.

00:13:19 ◼   ► And the 12.9 inch will be going from 6.4 to five millimeters.

00:13:24 ◼   ► What is really weird to me here is that the 12.9

00:13:31 ◼   ► will be 0.1 millimeters thinner than the 11.

00:13:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, that I think is gonna feel amazing in the hand.

00:13:40 ◼   ► - And also the 12.9 Pro is one millimeter thinner

00:13:45 ◼   ► than the new 12.9 Air.

00:13:48 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:13:49 ◼   ► - That's also interesting.

00:13:50 ◼   ► - But the Air sticker and the Pro.

00:13:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's ironic, right?

00:13:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's the Air is thinner

00:13:58 ◼   ► than the current Pro is as well.

00:14:02 ◼   ► And I expect that's because it's maybe the mini LED,

00:14:06 ◼   ► maybe that is more complicated than just a regular LCD screen

00:14:11 ◼   ► or LED screen, whatever they use.

00:14:13 ◼   ► LED screens, I have no idea anymore.

00:14:15 ◼   ► I'm so lost because I assume that we use LED,

00:14:19 ◼   ► mini LED and OLED, right?

00:14:21 ◼   ► So I think that the LED screens will be thinner

00:14:24 ◼   ► than the mini LED screens, but what 9to5 is saying

00:14:28 ◼   ► that everything is gonna be thinner

00:14:30 ◼   ► because OLED is thinner in general.

00:14:34 ◼   ► So that's how they can get thinner.

00:14:35 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:14:36 ◼   ► - But the fun thing then is that the iPad Pro,

00:14:40 ◼   ► I guess we'll take the crown again

00:14:42 ◼   ► because I think the iPad Pro currently,

00:14:45 ◼   ► or at least maybe the LED version of the iPad Pro

00:14:49 ◼   ► was the thinnest Apple product ever made.

00:14:51 ◼   ► And this will now top that.

00:14:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, five millimeters makes it thinner

00:14:57 ◼   ► than any iPod touch and even that weird last iPod Nano

00:15:02 ◼   ► that kind of looked like iOS.

00:15:03 ◼   ► Like not the square clippy one, but the very last one.

00:15:07 ◼   ► And that thing, I've got one, like I pulled it out today.

00:15:09 ◼   ► It's really thin.

00:15:11 ◼   ► I think it's gonna be a dramatic change to the iPad,

00:15:14 ◼   ► especially when you're not using it in the case.

00:15:18 ◼   ► - The thing that just always boggles my mind,

00:15:20 ◼   ► like I know this fact, but I had to Google it again

00:15:23 ◼   ► because I still feel like I can never believe it,

00:15:25 ◼   ► that the current iPad Pro is thinner

00:15:28 ◼   ► than the original iPod Nano.

00:15:30 ◼   ► Doesn't make any sense.

00:15:33 ◼   ► - No, that's incredible.

00:15:35 ◼   ► - Right?

00:15:35 ◼   ► The iPod Nano was 6.9 millimeters thick.

00:15:38 ◼   ► Wild, it's wild.

00:15:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, but going to five millimeters,

00:15:43 ◼   ► like that's a major milestone, I think.

00:15:47 ◼   ► Like it seems incredible that it can be that thin.

00:15:52 ◼   ► You know, go OLED, I guess.

00:15:54 ◼   ► So for these iPads, I guess, so for these iPads,

00:15:57 ◼   ► let's sort of run down what we know.

00:15:58 ◼   ► We know that there's gonna be a bigger iPad Air.

00:16:02 ◼   ► They are gonna stick to their usual sizes,

00:16:05 ◼   ► 11 inch and 12.9 inch for the iPad Pro.

00:16:10 ◼   ► They're gonna be OLED,

00:16:11 ◼   ► and they're probably remaking the Magic Keyboard

00:16:14 ◼   ► or at the very least making a higher end,

00:16:18 ◼   ► more pro keyboard trackpad accessory.

00:16:21 ◼   ► So that's all we know for hardware.

00:16:24 ◼   ► I am really curious to see

00:16:28 ◼   ► how they're gonna pitch these devices beyond these changes.

00:16:32 ◼   ► Like, should we expect

00:16:36 ◼   ► any change from the software of these iPads?

00:16:41 ◼   ► And also, I had a thought today.

00:16:44 ◼   ► Why, so I guess, no, let me rephrase in a different way.

00:16:49 ◼   ► I think Sidecar on the iPad

00:16:53 ◼   ► should go away, hold on,

00:16:57 ◼   ► and should just be called Mac Virtual Display.

00:16:59 ◼   ► Because aren't they like the same thing?

00:17:02 ◼   ► Well, Sidecar extends the display,

00:17:04 ◼   ► and I guess Mac Virtual Desktop replaces it,

00:17:07 ◼   ► but they're definitely very closely related.

00:17:10 ◼   ► It just seems strange

00:17:11 ◼   ► that we have two similar Mac display technologies,

00:17:15 ◼   ► and one is called One Way,

00:17:16 ◼   ► and another is called Mac Virtual Display.

00:17:18 ◼   ► But I think it is that similarity,

00:17:20 ◼   ► the fact that they are similar, not the same,

00:17:22 ◼   ► is it's difficult, 'cause as Stephen said, right?

00:17:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I get it.

00:17:26 ◼   ► You can't mirror, I don't think, right?

00:17:29 ◼   ► Or maybe you can, but you can also, with Sidecar,

00:17:33 ◼   ► have it as a second display, right?

00:17:34 ◼   ► Which you cannot do with Vision.

00:17:36 ◼   ► True, true.

00:17:37 ◼   ► But regardless, anyway, some hardware changes,

00:17:41 ◼   ► and we know nothing about,

00:17:43 ◼   ► and if there's gonna be any software-related improvements

00:17:47 ◼   ► on these iPads, which I don't think there will be.

00:17:50 ◼   ► No, at least not when they announce them,

00:17:53 ◼   ► if we're still expecting a March timeline, right?

00:17:57 ◼   ► You're three months away from any changes.

00:18:01 ◼   ► I would be, I mean, we're gonna talk about iOS 18

00:18:05 ◼   ► in a little bit.

00:18:06 ◼   ► I would be surprised if there was anything

00:18:09 ◼   ► like super specific for iPad and iOS 18,

00:18:11 ◼   ► 'cause it looks like Apple was one very, very clear focus,

00:18:15 ◼   ► but we'll find out.

00:18:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:18 ◼   ► I kinda wish that he had the measurements

00:18:22 ◼   ► for a new iPad Mini.

00:18:23 ◼   ► Can I just put that out there?

00:18:24 ◼   ► Those numbers aren't floating around.

00:18:26 ◼   ► Yeah, 'cause, Stephen, you know what?

00:18:27 ◼   ► It's gonna be exactly the same,

00:18:28 ◼   ► 'cause if we get anything, it is a spec bump.

00:18:31 ◼   ► Yeah, I think I've said this,

00:18:33 ◼   ► but my iPad Mini got sort of down-cycled

00:18:36 ◼   ► to be a kid's iPad, 'cause they were using,

00:18:38 ◼   ► one of the kids was using an iPad, I don't know,

00:18:42 ◼   ► seventh gen, something really old,

00:18:44 ◼   ► and I replaced it with an iPad Mini,

00:18:45 ◼   ► and I got a refurbished 11-inch iPad Pro,

00:18:48 ◼   ► but I really miss the iPad Mini.

00:18:51 ◼   ► I kinda think I messed up, but.

00:18:53 ◼   ► I adore, adore my iPad Mini.

00:18:57 ◼   ► It's going to be very hard to resist

00:19:00 ◼   ► an OLED 11-inch iPad Pro.

00:19:02 ◼   ► Oh yeah, no, I'm gonna get that.

00:19:03 ◼   ► I think I am gonna get an 11-inch iPad Pro OLED for sure.

00:19:08 ◼   ► Like, that's gonna be my new iPad.

00:19:11 ◼   ► 'Cause I use, so remember when I had COVID?

00:19:13 ◼   ► You remember when I had COVID?

00:19:15 ◼   ► I don't know if you guys could feel that.

00:19:15 ◼   ► Oh, you do, you do?

00:19:17 ◼   ► Remember I had COVID that one really inconvenient time?

00:19:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:20 ◼   ► To try and make myself feel better,

00:19:23 ◼   ► I ordered an iPad from Best Buy.

00:19:26 ◼   ► Oh yeah, 'cause you wanted to use Stage Manager,

00:19:28 ◼   ► and that was when it was still limited to,

00:19:32 ◼   ► whatever it was limited to.

00:19:33 ◼   ► The M processors, and I had an iPad

00:19:36 ◼   ► with an A processor in it.

00:19:38 ◼   ► And so I was like, oh, I'll just get that.

00:19:41 ◼   ► So we use that iPad for watching TV on,

00:19:46 ◼   ► if we're eating something, if we're eating dinner,

00:19:47 ◼   ► maybe we'll catch up on a show, and we watch that, right?

00:19:50 ◼   ► So that works for us.

00:19:51 ◼   ► But that is a 64-gigabyte iPad.

00:19:54 ◼   ► Boys, that is-

00:19:57 ◼   ► Not enough.

00:19:58 ◼   ► An impossible thing to manage.

00:20:00 ◼   ► Because I have like 28 gigabytes of iMessage.

00:20:05 ◼   ► And I can't do anything about it.

00:20:07 ◼   ► That's our fault, mostly.

00:20:09 ◼   ► Oh, but it's just like, I wanna keep it, right?

00:20:11 ◼   ► 'Cause all of my other devices can store that.

00:20:13 ◼   ► But this cannot.

00:20:14 ◼   ► I had to do some real like gymnastics a couple of days ago,

00:20:19 ◼   ► just to update the iPad.

00:20:21 ◼   ► It was a nightmare, just trying to be able

00:20:24 ◼   ► to update the thing.

00:20:25 ◼   ► So yeah, but so I would like to,

00:20:27 ◼   ► I think I would like to replace that iPad at some point.

00:20:30 ◼   ► And I don't know, maybe it just becomes my iPad

00:20:33 ◼   ► and I give up on the mini life, but we'll see.

00:20:36 ◼   ► Oh, don't wanna do that.

00:20:37 ◼   ► Could I introduce you to a concept

00:20:40 ◼   ► called the multi-pad lifestyle?

00:20:42 ◼   ► It's on my face now.

00:20:43 ◼   ► That is true.

00:20:45 ◼   ► It's on my face.

00:20:46 ◼   ► Multi-pad on my face.

00:20:48 ◼   ► Yep.

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00:23:25 ◼   ► - So Jason published the Six Colors report card for 2023

00:23:33 ◼   ► over on sixcolors.com, the website,

00:23:35 ◼   ► and we spoke about it on upgrade

00:23:39 ◼   ► and me and Jason both gave our scores.

00:23:41 ◼   ► But one of the great things about this now

00:23:43 ◼   ► is people start publishing their own report cards,

00:23:46 ◼   ► all of the information that they gave.

00:23:48 ◼   ► And so you two both published yours as well.

00:23:51 ◼   ► And so I wanted to give you both the opportunity

00:23:54 ◼   ► to pick out any specific highlights.

00:23:56 ◼   ► We probably won't go through it all.

00:23:57 ◼   ► I don't think we have enough time in this week's episode

00:23:59 ◼   ► to go through everything.

00:24:01 ◼   ► But I don't know if either of you wanted to pick out

00:24:03 ◼   ► any specific scores that you gave and some reasoning

00:24:06 ◼   ► for those.

00:24:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, my one out of five to the iPad, maybe.

00:24:10 ◼   ► - Okay, yeah, I'd like to know about that.

00:24:12 ◼   ► I also want to know about your wearables

00:24:14 ◼   ► because our scores are very similar.

00:24:17 ◼   ► - What did I say about that?

00:24:18 ◼   ► - Wearables you gave two out of five

00:24:20 ◼   ► and I gave four out of five.

00:24:21 ◼   ► So I also want to hear about that.

00:24:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, so the wearables, I'm kind of bored

00:24:27 ◼   ► with the AirPods Pro.

00:24:28 ◼   ► They are serviceable.

00:24:30 ◼   ► They do what they're meant to do,

00:24:32 ◼   ► but it just feels like they've been doing

00:24:34 ◼   ► the same thing forever now.

00:24:35 ◼   ► And I know that in tech years, forever,

00:24:39 ◼   ► can also be three years, four years,

00:24:42 ◼   ► but it feels that way.

00:24:43 ◼   ► They feel, I don't know, they feel kind of boring to me.

00:24:46 ◼   ► I cannot stop using them because they are the best earbuds

00:24:50 ◼   ► if you are an Apple person.

00:24:54 ◼   ► But I just wish that Apple did something new.

00:24:56 ◼   ► More sensors, more, I don't know, more battery life,

00:25:00 ◼   ► more, you know, a different shape.

00:25:02 ◼   ► I look, for example, at,

00:25:04 ◼   ► have you guys seen those new Bose Ultra open earbuds

00:25:09 ◼   ► that actually don't go into your ears?

00:25:12 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:25:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know.

00:25:14 ◼   ► I don't think Apple is ever gonna do that sort of stuff,

00:25:17 ◼   ► but I just wish they had a little more creativity

00:25:20 ◼   ► in terms of the whole wearable category.

00:25:22 ◼   ► And of course, the AirPods Max.

00:25:24 ◼   ► They should be a little ashamed

00:25:27 ◼   ► that they haven't upgraded those headphones

00:25:31 ◼   ► in any capacity, both in terms of hardware and software

00:25:35 ◼   ► for the new audio features that we have on the AirPods Pro

00:25:39 ◼   ► in how many years?

00:25:41 ◼   ► Four, five?

00:25:42 ◼   ► So yeah, I think it's a two out of five

00:25:46 ◼   ► because I wanna see some changes,

00:25:48 ◼   ► and the AirPods Max just feel like a forgotten product

00:25:52 ◼   ► at this point.

00:25:52 ◼   ► - Which is a shame 'cause-- - Yeah.

00:25:54 ◼   ► - They're the, my favorite over is

00:25:56 ◼   ► because they get all of the features

00:25:58 ◼   ► that come with being as part of the ecosystem.

00:26:00 ◼   ► - And they are so comfortable.

00:26:02 ◼   ► Like they are the best over here Bluetooth headphones

00:26:05 ◼   ► that I have.

00:26:06 ◼   ► I really, really like them,

00:26:07 ◼   ► but they make me feel bad when I use them.

00:26:09 ◼   ► You know, when I need to charge them

00:26:11 ◼   ► with a lightning cable, just feels terrible.

00:26:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I want, I mean, because I use it,

00:26:16 ◼   ► I want adaptive mode.

00:26:18 ◼   ► I want conversations, like I use those features,

00:26:21 ◼   ► and so I want them on all of my headphones.

00:26:25 ◼   ► - So the iPad, I gave it two out of five.

00:26:29 ◼   ► You gave it one out of five.

00:26:32 ◼   ► I'm sure for similar reasons, right?

00:26:34 ◼   ► No hardware updates in 2023,

00:26:37 ◼   ► but also kind of no meaningful iPadOS updates.

00:26:41 ◼   ► I mean, they improved Stage Manager, but--

00:26:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, so that's why I give it a one.

00:26:44 ◼   ► I was really tempted to give it a zero,

00:26:46 ◼   ► but because they, at the very least,

00:26:51 ◼   ► they sort of improved some basic problems of Stage Manager,

00:26:56 ◼   ► I gave it a one.

00:26:59 ◼   ► - Well, there is, for JSON, there is no zero.

00:27:02 ◼   ► - Oh, okay.

00:27:04 ◼   ► - 'Cause that was my, I gave it a one,

00:27:06 ◼   ► instead of, I said in my report notes,

00:27:09 ◼   ► if there was a zero, I would've given it a zero.

00:27:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:27:13 ◼   ► So it's not just that there weren't,

00:27:17 ◼   ► for the first time in over a decade,

00:27:19 ◼   ► no new iPads last year.

00:27:22 ◼   ► It's the fact that it really seems, okay,

00:27:26 ◼   ► seems from the outside that if you set aside the fact

00:27:31 ◼   ► the final cut and logic finally came to the iPad,

00:27:34 ◼   ► but those are like separate apps,

00:27:35 ◼   ► but as a platform, right, as iPadOS, as its own entity,

00:27:40 ◼   ► as a whole operating system,

00:27:42 ◼   ► it just feels, my perspective, that Apple's,

00:27:47 ◼   ► I don't know, it almost seems like they don't have,

00:27:50 ◼   ► there's no passion behind it anymore,

00:27:52 ◼   ► and it seems to me like that passion

00:27:54 ◼   ► is now going to VisionOS.

00:27:57 ◼   ► It just, which is why I keep saying,

00:28:01 ◼   ► like, I really wanna see how they pitch,

00:28:03 ◼   ► how they present these new iPad Pros,

00:28:06 ◼   ► because if it just, I get this feeling that,

00:28:10 ◼   ► besides Stage Manager, which, again,

00:28:12 ◼   ► is an optional setting that you need to choose,

00:28:15 ◼   ► and it's not even that great, right?

00:28:17 ◼   ► I've been using my 11-inch iPad Pro

00:28:20 ◼   ► with Split View again and Slide Over, and it's glorious.

00:28:23 ◼   ► But besides Stage Manager,

00:28:27 ◼   ► we haven't really gotten any meaningful,

00:28:31 ◼   ► like, desktop-class features on iPadOS,

00:28:35 ◼   ► unless you wanna talk about, like,

00:28:37 ◼   ► slightly customizable toolbars and sidebars

00:28:41 ◼   ► as desktop-class features,

00:28:43 ◼   ► which is what Apple would like you to think,

00:28:45 ◼   ► which, fine, sure,

00:28:46 ◼   ► it's nice to have a customizable toolbar,

00:28:48 ◼   ► but it seems to me like Apple's really putting the passion,

00:28:53 ◼   ► so to speak, behind VisionOS and behind macOS these days.

00:29:01 ◼   ► And, of course, iOS, but iOS is going forever, right?

00:29:05 ◼   ► iOS needs to go forever.

00:29:07 ◼   ► But besides iOS,

00:29:09 ◼   ► which is the central operating system in many ways,

00:29:13 ◼   ► it feels like there's VisionOS, macOS,

00:29:17 ◼   ► really, really...

00:29:19 ◼   ► I mean, look at Mac hardware, look at Mac software, right?

00:29:22 ◼   ► Tons of things happening over there,

00:29:25 ◼   ► and iPadOS is sort of just left there to linger

00:29:29 ◼   ► and to wait for small updates every once in a while.

00:29:33 ◼   ► And I say this as a person who profoundly loves

00:29:36 ◼   ► the iPad form factor and the idea of a tablet OS,

00:29:42 ◼   ► but looking at reality,

00:29:45 ◼   ► is there anything really substantial happening

00:29:51 ◼   ► on that front these days?

00:29:53 ◼   ► And I think the answer is no and has been no for a while.

00:29:56 ◼   ► Yeah, it's hard to argue with.

00:29:59 ◼   ► My score that I wish I could do over is the Apple Watch.

00:30:03 ◼   ► I don't know what I was thinking.

00:30:04 ◼   ► I gave it four out of five, and I think that's too high.

00:30:08 ◼   ► I didn't even write it in my thing.

00:30:10 ◼   ► I was going through this in preparation of the show.

00:30:12 ◼   ► I was like, "I didn't even write anything about this."

00:30:14 ◼   ► The Apple Watch, I guess some of this

00:30:16 ◼   ► was the very end of the year,

00:30:17 ◼   ► maybe even after I turned to my answers.

00:30:19 ◼   ► Maybe that's what it was.

00:30:21 ◼   ► But the whole deal with the blood oxygen sensor

00:30:23 ◼   ► in the United States is ridiculous.

00:30:26 ◼   ► And I think if we look at 2023 as a whole,

00:30:31 ◼   ► that is a pretty big mark against the Apple Watch.

00:30:34 ◼   ► And now, and of course, now it's the 2024,

00:30:37 ◼   ► so this will be on next year's, I guess.

00:30:39 ◼   ► You can't, like if you buy a new Apple Watch

00:30:41 ◼   ► that supports blood oxygen stuff,

00:30:43 ◼   ► it's turned off in the United States

00:30:45 ◼   ► because Apple can't or won't settle with this other company.

00:30:50 ◼   ► And the longer it goes, the more ridiculous it is.

00:30:54 ◼   ► Like, I don't know what that company wants from Apple,

00:30:57 ◼   ► but they need to be able to come to a common ground here

00:31:00 ◼   ► because it's a good feature that people are being,

00:31:05 ◼   ► they're not able to use it,

00:31:07 ◼   ► they're not able to take advantage of it

00:31:08 ◼   ► because this litigation that's going on

00:31:11 ◼   ► that most people don't even know anything about.

00:31:13 ◼   ► - Yep, it's one of those things that I was very aware of

00:31:16 ◼   ► and then completely forgot about

00:31:18 ◼   ► because now we're not talking about it anymore

00:31:20 ◼   ► and there's no more information about it

00:31:21 ◼   ► because it reached a point and stopped.

00:31:23 ◼   ► And like, there will be more in the future,

00:31:25 ◼   ► but it is kind of ridiculous to think about that.

00:31:29 ◼   ► Like, I hope it gets resolved 'cause it's petty,

00:31:36 ◼   ► it feels just like such a small thing.

00:31:41 ◼   ► And I understand why they don't wanna do it,

00:31:44 ◼   ► but if they infringe the patents of this company,

00:31:48 ◼   ► well, then that's just the way it goes, right?

00:31:51 ◼   ► Like if that's how it's found, that's just the way it goes.

00:31:54 ◼   ► - Yep, I think those are my sort of high points.

00:32:00 ◼   ► You know, I think overall, Apple's doing okay.

00:32:05 ◼   ► I think the pain points, most of them aren't new, right?

00:32:10 ◼   ► Like Federico's thing about iPadOS,

00:32:12 ◼   ► you could copy that out and paste it

00:32:14 ◼   ► in an episode of "Connected" from two years ago

00:32:16 ◼   ► or three years ago.

00:32:18 ◼   ► That's basically the same argument, right?

00:32:20 ◼   ► I think the same thing could be said for hardware,

00:32:23 ◼   ► that the hardware, like each year is better and better

00:32:26 ◼   ► and Apple Silicon's been great for the Mac for now.

00:32:29 ◼   ► Coming up on a little over three years,

00:32:32 ◼   ► iPhone hardware, incredible.

00:32:34 ◼   ► I feel like these things that are changing

00:32:38 ◼   ► in sort of the Apple landscape, they change very slowly.

00:32:42 ◼   ► And I feel at least like the overall shape

00:32:46 ◼   ► of the report card and the way I think about it,

00:32:49 ◼   ► like not that much has changed

00:32:51 ◼   ► over the years we've been doing it.

00:32:53 ◼   ► Not drastically, at least.

00:32:55 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:32:55 ◼   ► - No, there've been a couple of areas like the Mac.

00:33:00 ◼   ► So in 2016, the Mac was a 2.6.

00:33:05 ◼   ► And now it's a 4.2.

00:33:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, I forgot it went back that far even.

00:33:09 ◼   ► Yeah, that's fair.

00:33:11 ◼   ► - Right, so there are a few things like that

00:33:13 ◼   ► that have really swung.

00:33:14 ◼   ► The iPad has taken a similar dip.

00:33:16 ◼   ► It's now at 2.4.

00:33:17 ◼   ► - The iPad is now lower than where the Mac was

00:33:22 ◼   ► during the whole butterfly keyboard era.

00:33:25 ◼   ► - Like Apple Watch goes up and down,

00:33:26 ◼   ► but not really huge swings and similar for Apple TV.

00:33:30 ◼   ► But like the Mac and the iPad is the ones

00:33:32 ◼   ► that have had the biggest like deltas

00:33:35 ◼   ► I think during this time period.

00:33:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, gosh, what a terrible time

00:33:41 ◼   ► the Mac was having in 2016, '17 and '18, nightmare.

00:33:46 ◼   ► - I mean, it's what it's like to be an iPad user today.

00:33:50 ◼   ► - I guess so.

00:33:51 ◼   ► - They flipped.

00:33:52 ◼   ► - At least your keyboards work, you know?

00:33:55 ◼   ► - Apple doesn't believe in the future of the iPad.

00:33:58 ◼   ► They just want the Mac to be an iPad.

00:34:01 ◼   ► - Well, I guess it's like, all right,

00:34:02 ◼   ► so let's just play this out for a second, right?

00:34:05 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:34:06 ◼   ► - Now, I guess the story will be that like

00:34:09 ◼   ► how the iPad was gonna replace the Mac

00:34:12 ◼   ► that Vision will replace iPad, right?

00:34:14 ◼   ► I guess that's probably where that story could go.

00:34:19 ◼   ► - For sure.

00:34:20 ◼   ► - I think so.

00:34:21 ◼   ► - Interesting, be fun for you guys.

00:34:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, I don't think it's not even that wrong

00:34:29 ◼   ► as an assessment.

00:34:32 ◼   ► I think just looking at the facts,

00:34:34 ◼   ► the fact that Vision OS is based on iPad OS

00:34:39 ◼   ► and lets you open as many windows as you want,

00:34:42 ◼   ► I know that by design,

00:34:43 ◼   ► the fact that you can turn your own room into a workspace,

00:34:48 ◼   ► but it just feels like a version of iPad OS

00:34:55 ◼   ► where people actually improved the things

00:35:00 ◼   ► that were not working on iPad OS.

00:35:02 ◼   ► Yeah, so.

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00:36:54 ◼   ► - So Steven, I feel like we have Mac Power Users'

00:36:59 ◼   ► version of you for the rest of the show today.

00:37:02 ◼   ► Like these show notes,

00:37:04 ◼   ► these feel like what you would do for MPU.

00:37:06 ◼   ► So I'm very excited about this.

00:37:08 ◼   ► There's a lot of hack it research going into this topic.

00:37:11 ◼   ► So on behalf of the Connected podcast,

00:37:14 ◼   ► the most pleasurable podcast, I would like to thank you

00:37:17 ◼   ► for doing this pleasurable research.

00:37:20 ◼   ► - It's also in Notion, which is like MPU.

00:37:24 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:37:25 ◼   ► - Okay, so I wanted to spend some time talking

00:37:30 ◼   ► about Apple's AI efforts.

00:37:32 ◼   ► And I've kind of broken this into three sections roughly,

00:37:36 ◼   ► background, rumors, and what they've actually shipped.

00:37:41 ◼   ► And you know, at this point,

00:37:41 ◼   ► it's like a really interesting point in time.

00:37:44 ◼   ► Google, OpenAI, others have kind of put their cards

00:37:47 ◼   ► on the table about what they're doing.

00:37:49 ◼   ► And Apple hasn't in terms of product.

00:37:53 ◼   ► We don't know what AI infused product is gonna be like

00:37:57 ◼   ► from Apple, but they are doing things.

00:38:01 ◼   ► And when I started digging into this,

00:38:04 ◼   ► 'cause like you see reports every once in a while,

00:38:05 ◼   ► like Apple released this, they published this paper,

00:38:07 ◼   ► whatever, when you start putting it together,

00:38:10 ◼   ► there's actually a lot of stuff here.

00:38:12 ◼   ► And so while Apple hasn't shipped anything

00:38:14 ◼   ► to the regular end user, that doesn't mean

00:38:17 ◼   ► that there's not stuff going on behind the scenes.

00:38:20 ◼   ► And if anything, all this makes me excited

00:38:22 ◼   ► to see what we could end up with in products,

00:38:25 ◼   ► because clearly they're spending a lot of time and money

00:38:28 ◼   ► in this area, which is good,

00:38:30 ◼   ► because all the competitors are, they should.

00:38:32 ◼   ► - To say follow up, obviously, when we're talking about AI,

00:38:36 ◼   ► what we're talking about is products like the products

00:38:39 ◼   ► that are existing now from the companies

00:38:41 ◼   ► you mentioned earlier.

00:38:42 ◼   ► Obviously, we know Apple has machine learning

00:38:45 ◼   ► in a lot of their things.

00:38:46 ◼   ► We know they put a transformer model in the keyboard,

00:38:49 ◼   ► but none of these are what we're really thinking about

00:38:52 ◼   ► when we talk about quote unquote AI products, right?

00:38:55 ◼   ► These are chatbots, these are things

00:38:57 ◼   ► that do things on the web, like you can have conversations

00:39:00 ◼   ► with all this image generation, all this kind of stuff

00:39:03 ◼   ► that is occurring new right now.

00:39:07 ◼   ► That's what we're talking about.

00:39:09 ◼   ► - Exactly, I think we should start with personnel.

00:39:13 ◼   ► So there was some reporting coming up on a year ago

00:39:18 ◼   ► about some job descriptions that we're talking about,

00:39:22 ◼   ► hiring people in these areas.

00:39:25 ◼   ► And I had kind of forgotten that it's been this long,

00:39:30 ◼   ► but back in, what is it, back in 2018,

00:39:34 ◼   ► Apple hired John Gendrea from Google,

00:39:39 ◼   ► and he is now Apple's Senior Vice President,

00:39:45 ◼   ► comma, Machine Learning and AI Strategy.

00:39:49 ◼   ► He is on the leadership page on apple.com.

00:39:52 ◼   ► And when he came over, obviously a big deal,

00:39:57 ◼   ► he had done a lot of this sort of groundwork at Google.

00:40:02 ◼   ► And I think it's clear that he has been building a team,

00:40:05 ◼   ► not only through these job postings,

00:40:08 ◼   ► but exactly what you said, Mike.

00:40:09 ◼   ► They've already shipped some products,

00:40:11 ◼   ► I'm glad you brought that up.

00:40:12 ◼   ► And I would imagine there's even stuff

00:40:15 ◼   ► that we don't know about, but that is machine learning

00:40:19 ◼   ► or AI and services or in Siri or something

00:40:22 ◼   ► that they haven't really publicized, so.

00:40:24 ◼   ► - Man, talk about a guy who was hired

00:40:27 ◼   ► and then his life changed, right?

00:40:30 ◼   ► Like, I'm sure he was hired for whatever he was hired for

00:40:33 ◼   ► and he was working on that stuff.

00:40:35 ◼   ► And then like two years ago, it was like,

00:40:36 ◼   ► oh, you need a lot more resources now, right?

00:40:41 ◼   ► Like that, I assume his team has exploded

00:40:46 ◼   ► over the last 12 to 18 months.

00:40:49 ◼   ► - I'm sure it has.

00:40:50 ◼   ► And that brings us to some of the rumors.

00:40:53 ◼   ► So we mentioned iOS 18 earlier,

00:40:57 ◼   ► and it really seems like this is going to be a release

00:41:02 ◼   ► that is really focused on generative AI features.

00:41:07 ◼   ► Mark Gurman has talked a lot about this.

00:41:09 ◼   ► He has called it one of the biggest updates ever to iOS,

00:41:12 ◼   ► which is just wild.

00:41:14 ◼   ► There's also reports and rumors that the iPhone 16 line

00:41:19 ◼   ► could get a big bump in neural engine performance.

00:41:23 ◼   ► There's also a rumor floating out there

00:41:25 ◼   ► that the iPhone 16 and 16 Pro will both get a new chip,

00:41:29 ◼   ► that they won't do the thing

00:41:30 ◼   ► they've done the last couple of years.

00:41:32 ◼   ► And if that means new neural engine stuff to all the phones

00:41:36 ◼   ► in conjunction with iOS 18,

00:41:38 ◼   ► like Apple hardware, software services coming together,

00:41:42 ◼   ► right, that's it, that's what they do.

00:41:44 ◼   ► And I think some of these specific rumors

00:41:48 ◼   ► are actually really interesting in what it could mean.

00:41:52 ◼   ► One of the biggest ones has to do with Siri,

00:41:56 ◼   ► where you could use Siri,

00:41:59 ◼   ► hypothetically if these reports are correct,

00:42:02 ◼   ► to kind of do one-off tasks

00:42:03 ◼   ► that maybe you would build a shortcut for previously,

00:42:07 ◼   ► but shortcuts isn't very good, in my opinion,

00:42:09 ◼   ► at the one-offs, right?

00:42:11 ◼   ► You kind of build a shortcut

00:42:12 ◼   ► because you're going to do it over and over.

00:42:13 ◼   ► Same thing with automation on the Mac, right?

00:42:15 ◼   ► I'm not going to make a hazel rule to move MP3s one time.

00:42:19 ◼   ► I'm going to build a hazel rule to move MP3s every single day

00:42:22 ◼   ► 'cause I'm making files every day for work, right?

00:42:25 ◼   ► And if this is true and Siri is going to be supercharged

00:42:29 ◼   ► with some sort of LLM,

00:42:31 ◼   ► where you could ask it to do something

00:42:33 ◼   ► based on what's on screen or files you provided

00:42:36 ◼   ► or pictures you provided, something like that,

00:42:39 ◼   ► it kind of in a way like opens automation, in air quotes,

00:42:43 ◼   ► to the masses in a new way,

00:42:45 ◼   ► just like shortcuts did years ago.

00:42:47 ◼   ► And I think that's really interesting.

00:42:49 ◼   ► And I'd love to hear what y'all think about,

00:42:50 ◼   ► like what Siri could look like with these new superpowers.

00:42:55 ◼   ► Yeah, I think there's so much incredible potential

00:43:00 ◼   ► when you start thinking about Siri and shortcuts together

00:43:04 ◼   ► as sort of a service that can understand

00:43:08 ◼   ► what you're asking in terms of features

00:43:10 ◼   ► of the operating system and actions to take

00:43:14 ◼   ► around the operating system and inside apps,

00:43:18 ◼   ► which is kind of similar, I guess,

00:43:19 ◼   ► to what the shortcuts folks are building now

00:43:23 ◼   ► as a separate startup, right?

00:43:25 ◼   ► Remember, what's the name of like a--

00:43:27 ◼   ► - Computer software incorporated.

00:43:30 ◼   ► - Computer software.

00:43:31 ◼   ► Yeah, software Inc, something.

00:43:34 ◼   ► But that's the idea, right?

00:43:35 ◼   ► So I think the biggest advantage that Apple has

00:43:39 ◼   ► compared to say OpenAI, right?

00:43:42 ◼   ► Or these other companies that are doing generative AI,

00:43:45 ◼   ► they have an entire OS or rather an entire ecosystem

00:43:50 ◼   ► of operating systems that can talk to an AI

00:43:55 ◼   ► and provide your own data.

00:43:58 ◼   ► That for me has been the biggest obstacle

00:44:00 ◼   ► in terms of really using something like chat GPT

00:44:03 ◼   ► as a service on a daily basis.

00:44:06 ◼   ► Chat GPT has no idea what's in my,

00:44:08 ◼   ► sure, there are plugins now, blah, blah, blah.

00:44:10 ◼   ► - You wrote one, you did SGDPT.

00:44:13 ◼   ► - Yes, but the idea is the AI that,

00:44:17 ◼   ► imagine if the AI lived inside my iPhone,

00:44:20 ◼   ► inside my computer and knew about my files,

00:44:23 ◼   ► knew how to say open a PDF and resize it,

00:44:27 ◼   ► or stuff like, hey, take the latest five screenshots

00:44:31 ◼   ► and zip them up and send them to John on iMessage.

00:44:34 ◼   ► Like that's the kind of stuff you would previously

00:44:37 ◼   ► write a shortcut for.

00:44:38 ◼   ► But as Steven said, that was a one-off task.

00:44:41 ◼   ► Do you really wanna write a shortcut for a one-off task?

00:44:44 ◼   ► What if you could just write that down as a request

00:44:47 ◼   ► or speak it as a spoken command

00:44:50 ◼   ► and the system did it for you?

00:44:52 ◼   ► Now that's, I think, the power of generative AI

00:44:56 ◼   ► and a large language model that understands

00:44:58 ◼   ► what you're asking and knows how to act on your own data.

00:45:03 ◼   ► That for me is the key point here.

00:45:05 ◼   ► - Is my worry with this, right?

00:45:07 ◼   ► So that's a great thing that you suggested

00:45:10 ◼   ► and I'm sure they could probably use like Intents

00:45:12 ◼   ► as a way to power some of that, right?

00:45:14 ◼   ► Like I have some of the bones that they would need

00:45:17 ◼   ► for like little things that an app can do.

00:45:20 ◼   ► The thing that I worry about is like, oh, save a task to,

00:45:26 ◼   ► you know, remind me to do the same, save a task to this.

00:45:30 ◼   ► I don't wanna say with Todoist, right?

00:45:34 ◼   ► - To Daoist, you mean.

00:45:35 ◼   ► I think it's pretty good.

00:45:36 ◼   ► - Add lunch with Federico to Fantastical, you know?

00:45:41 ◼   ► And that's the way they've done this kind of stuff

00:45:44 ◼   ► in the past.

00:45:45 ◼   ► You can't just say what apps you wanna use

00:45:49 ◼   ► like to the system and it will remember them.

00:45:52 ◼   ► You have to like make it clear,

00:45:54 ◼   ► like I'll save this thing to Todoist,

00:45:57 ◼   ► to remember the milk, to OmniFocus.

00:46:00 ◼   ► And like that's gonna be too much friction in there

00:46:04 ◼   ► where this, what they could implement,

00:46:07 ◼   ► what I hope they do implement is that this model

00:46:10 ◼   ► that they create can have a memory.

00:46:12 ◼   ► - Yes, I was just about to say this model

00:46:14 ◼   ► should have a data storage for your own preferences.

00:46:18 ◼   ► - This is something that I know ChatGPT is starting to do now

00:46:21 ◼   ► that you will be able to give it information about you

00:46:24 ◼   ► and it will remember it.

00:46:26 ◼   ► Like, and it will remember it across all of the chats

00:46:28 ◼   ► that you have, not just like the singular ones.

00:46:30 ◼   ► So like it's an actual real memory that it will have

00:46:34 ◼   ► rather than just needing to reread everything

00:46:36 ◼   ► you've ever said to it to remember something.

00:46:38 ◼   ► So like stuff like that would be good.

00:46:40 ◼   ► And that is very important that they do it that way.

00:46:45 ◼   ► Like if they want this thing to be truly useful

00:46:47 ◼   ► that we get that.

00:46:48 ◼   ► And this is the beginning of that dream

00:46:51 ◼   ► of like the knowledge navigator all over again, right?

00:46:55 ◼   ► So you can have an actual conversation with the computer

00:47:01 ◼   ► it will understand you, give you information

00:47:04 ◼   ► and then you can ask the computer to do things for you.

00:47:06 ◼   ► Like we are potentially very close now to having that

00:47:11 ◼   ► but they really have to make some fundamental decisions

00:47:15 ◼   ► early and correctly for us to get there, you know?

00:47:19 ◼   ► - And my other question is, and I guess, you know

00:47:23 ◼   ► or we can mention this because it's in Steven's

00:47:26 ◼   ► extensive list of links here.

00:47:30 ◼   ► Should you just, you know, are these features

00:47:32 ◼   ► these requests that you may ask a brand new serial AI

00:47:36 ◼   ► just going to be spoken requests

00:47:38 ◼   ► or will you be able to type them out as in a chat bot?

00:47:43 ◼   ► And one of the latest reports that we've heard

00:47:46 ◼   ► is that spotlight is also going to be infused

00:47:49 ◼   ► with these new AI features, which makes total sense, right?

00:47:53 ◼   ► There's times when you're working

00:47:54 ◼   ► and you want to get assistance from an AI

00:47:57 ◼   ► and you don't want to speak to Siri all the time.

00:48:00 ◼   ► So if Apple can do with a brand new spotlight

00:48:04 ◼   ► a version of essentially chat GPT

00:48:06 ◼   ► where you just have a written conversation

00:48:10 ◼   ► that you type out and you get responses from the AI

00:48:15 ◼   ► and you get results from the AI

00:48:17 ◼   ► I think that's going to be excellent.

00:48:18 ◼   ► So that, you know, you can have

00:48:21 ◼   ► this is the sort of advantage again that Apple has

00:48:23 ◼   ► in terms of like this multimodal interaction system

00:48:27 ◼   ► where the same AI could be used from spotlight

00:48:30 ◼   ► could be used with Siri on your phone

00:48:33 ◼   ► with Siri on your Mac, when you're wearing AirPods

00:48:36 ◼   ► when you're using the Apple watch,

00:48:37 ◼   ► like all those places where you

00:48:40 ◼   ► maybe even from the software keyboard

00:48:42 ◼   ► like all those places where Apple could in theory

00:48:45 ◼   ► put in AI features are the sort of advantages

00:48:48 ◼   ► that other companies don't have

00:48:50 ◼   ► because they don't own your computer or your phone.

00:48:54 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:48:56 ◼   ► Another area of reporting that I think is really interesting

00:49:00 ◼   ► and I think a really obvious direction for Apple to move

00:49:03 ◼   ► into is a co-pilot like feature in Xcode.

00:49:07 ◼   ► So this is been rolled out

00:49:09 ◼   ► across a bunch of Microsoft products.

00:49:11 ◼   ► You can get it in Office 365.

00:49:12 ◼   ► You can get it in GitHub.

00:49:14 ◼   ► I think it was there first

00:49:15 ◼   ► where the large language model can predict

00:49:20 ◼   ► and finish writing code for you.

00:49:23 ◼   ► So the language model knows all about Swift

00:49:26 ◼   ► and Swift UI and Objective-C and UIKit and everything else.

00:49:31 ◼   ► Maybe they'll even teach you about AppKit.

00:49:32 ◼   ► You never know.

00:49:33 ◼   ► And they might go that far back

00:49:34 ◼   ► and it then can help assist you in writing your code

00:49:39 ◼   ► and even maybe potentially find bugs in your code

00:49:43 ◼   ► or suggest more efficient ways of doing something.

00:49:47 ◼   ► This seems like something that they've got to do.

00:49:51 ◼   ► This is in other IDEs.

00:49:53 ◼   ► This is in other applications.

00:49:57 ◼   ► And I suspect out of everything on this list,

00:49:59 ◼   ► if we see anything, we would see this first.

00:50:03 ◼   ► - I think the time has passed to just do this only.

00:50:06 ◼   ► Like this felt like we were talking about this last year

00:50:09 ◼   ► at WWDC as a feature they might do.

00:50:12 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:50:13 ◼   ► - Like, I think if this was something,

00:50:15 ◼   ► like you said, like, yeah, they should do this,

00:50:17 ◼   ► but this now just needs to be one of the many things.

00:50:20 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:50:21 ◼   ► - The time has passed where this is the only thing

00:50:23 ◼   ► you can get away with.

00:50:24 ◼   ► - And it's an area where the specific knowledge set

00:50:29 ◼   ► is smaller than something generalized like Siri, right?

00:50:33 ◼   ► Siri, if it's gonna do all the things we want it to do,

00:50:35 ◼   ► it's got a lot of stuff.

00:50:37 ◼   ► And if it's fenced in basically around Xcode,

00:50:42 ◼   ► then something like this could be really useful, right?

00:50:48 ◼   ► The knowledge, the domain knowledge is smaller

00:50:51 ◼   ► than anything someone might do in an iPhone, right?

00:50:54 ◼   ► So I do expect that we'll see this.

00:50:56 ◼   ► - I'd be really curious to, you know,

00:50:59 ◼   ► we'll revisit this topic in June.

00:51:01 ◼   ► A couple of things on my mind.

00:51:03 ◼   ► One, is this gonna be Swift and SwiftUI only?

00:51:06 ◼   ► Did they train the model on only Swift or also Objective-C?

00:51:11 ◼   ► And two, did they train the model

00:51:13 ◼   ► on private Apple internal code?

00:51:18 ◼   ► Because the thing about GitHub copilot

00:51:21 ◼   ► is that it's trained on open source code

00:51:23 ◼   ► from GitHub, by and large.

00:51:25 ◼   ► I expect Apple didn't follow that route.

00:51:29 ◼   ► And I mean, where does the code that they use

00:51:33 ◼   ► to train the Xcode copilot come from?

00:51:36 ◼   ► And it'd be interesting to see if, you know,

00:51:40 ◼   ► maybe the AI tool in Xcode autocompletes code for you

00:51:44 ◼   ► that was actually written by an Apple engineer

00:51:46 ◼   ► for like, say, Springboard or something.

00:51:49 ◼   ► I'd be curious to know the source.

00:51:50 ◼   ► With this entire initiative, I am really curious

00:51:54 ◼   ► to know the source of Apple's data.

00:51:56 ◼   ► There were also the reports, right?

00:51:58 ◼   ► That Apple was gonna try and strike licensing deals

00:52:01 ◼   ► with publications to train the source of content

00:52:05 ◼   ► for generative AI.

00:52:07 ◼   ► There is also the rumor going around this past week

00:52:10 ◼   ► that Reddit was shopping around a licensing deal

00:52:13 ◼   ► of $60 million to basically say,

00:52:18 ◼   ► "Hey, company, we're gonna give you access to our data.

00:52:21 ◼   ► If you wanna train your generative AI model,

00:52:23 ◼   ► give us $60 million in return."

00:52:26 ◼   ► So maybe Apple could be behind that deal, we don't know.

00:52:29 ◼   ► But I really wanna see how Apple trained

00:52:34 ◼   ► all these different models in all the different domains.

00:52:37 ◼   ► - I remember a report from some time ago,

00:52:40 ◼   ► I think it was a Montgomery report,

00:52:42 ◼   ► that when they were building or starting to build out

00:52:44 ◼   ► their models, I think it's called Ajax internally,

00:52:48 ◼   ► they were really concerned about training it

00:52:50 ◼   ► on their own data.

00:52:52 ◼   ► Like Apple did not want to do that.

00:52:54 ◼   ► And I was concerned internally that it would

00:52:57 ◼   ► give away secrets basically.

00:53:00 ◼   ► So I wouldn't expect this is trained on,

00:53:03 ◼   ► I expect that this will be trained the same way

00:53:05 ◼   ► that they trained the photos machine learning model,

00:53:07 ◼   ► which is they have bought as much data as they possibly can.

00:53:11 ◼   ► So could I imagine they've done a deal with Reddit?

00:53:13 ◼   ► Yes, and I imagine if they've done this,

00:53:15 ◼   ► they've done deals with as literally as many people

00:53:17 ◼   ► as they possibly can to get as much information

00:53:20 ◼   ► as they possibly can.

00:53:21 ◼   ► Which if they have done that,

00:53:23 ◼   ► it does still beg the same questions

00:53:25 ◼   ► that a lot of companies have, which is like,

00:53:27 ◼   ► it's quote unquote, fair use, which I don't agree with.

00:53:31 ◼   ► But this is the world that we live in today.

00:53:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's a whole complicated sidebar.

00:53:36 ◼   ► I did sell Apple the entire Mac stories archive

00:53:39 ◼   ► for AI training though.

00:53:41 ◼   ► - Okay, cool.

00:53:42 ◼   ► How much?

00:53:43 ◼   ► - It was like eight bucks.

00:53:46 ◼   ► - Cool, cool.

00:53:47 ◼   ► - The model's gonna know a lot about shortcuts,

00:53:51 ◼   ► but it's not gonna be able to do any of those things.

00:53:53 ◼   ► - I mean, what's new?

00:53:54 ◼   ► The last sort of AI rumor that I think is worth

00:54:00 ◼   ► touching on today is an AI wellness coach.

00:54:05 ◼   ► So the goal would be to keep users motivated

00:54:09 ◼   ► to exercise and monitor their eating habits.

00:54:13 ◼   ► - Clippy, but for workouts.

00:54:14 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:54:16 ◼   ► - Clippy, but for workouts.

00:54:17 ◼   ► - Maybe flippy, 'cause it's like pretty acrobatic.

00:54:20 ◼   ► - Or rippy, so you get strong, you know?

00:54:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, rippy, that's it, that's the one.

00:54:27 ◼   ► Get rippy, baby.

00:54:28 ◼   ► - Get rippy, it's time to get rippy.

00:54:31 ◼   ► Get rippy with Team Cook.

00:54:33 ◼   ► - From the beginning,

00:54:34 ◼   ► the Apple Watch has made suggestions, right?

00:54:36 ◼   ► It's like, hey, stand up.

00:54:37 ◼   ► Hey, if you go, the most frustrating one is like,

00:54:40 ◼   ► it's 11 p.m., hey, if you went for a quick 30 minute walk,

00:54:43 ◼   ► you'd close your ring.

00:54:44 ◼   ► It's like, it's 11 p.m., bro, I'm not going outside.

00:54:47 ◼   ► This, I think, out of all of them, is the most delicate.

00:54:50 ◼   ► I think you've really got it.

00:54:52 ◼   ► You really don't want this AI to hallucinate

00:54:54 ◼   ► and tell somebody to do something they shouldn't do

00:54:57 ◼   ► when it comes to health and wellness,

00:54:59 ◼   ► but we'll see if Apple crosses this bridge.

00:55:01 ◼   ► I'm the most dubious about this one, I think,

00:55:03 ◼   ► actually showing up in the world.

00:55:05 ◼   ► But this one though, this one sells Fitness Plus.

00:55:09 ◼   ► Like this one sells a service, even.

00:55:12 ◼   ► The rest of them, boo.

00:55:14 ◼   ► There's no money in that.

00:55:15 ◼   ► - Imagine if the AI wellness coach

00:55:17 ◼   ► is like a virtual persona

00:55:22 ◼   ► that talks to you. - It could be.

00:55:24 ◼   ► - And he's as creepy as a persona.

00:55:27 ◼   ► - You know, I just had the thought,

00:55:29 ◼   ► it's gonna be really interesting to understand

00:55:32 ◼   ► where and how this information's processed.

00:55:36 ◼   ► Is it, could it even be all on device?

00:55:39 ◼   ► Is there gonna need to be some cloud stuff?

00:55:41 ◼   ► I think there's gonna need to be a mixture.

00:55:43 ◼   ► Maybe that you could, if you're an Apple One subscriber,

00:55:46 ◼   ► you might get priority or speed increases.

00:55:50 ◼   ► - Over your-- - I don't wanna think

00:55:52 ◼   ► about that stuff, well, yeah. - I'm telling you, man.

00:55:54 ◼   ► - But yeah, you're right.

00:55:55 ◼   ► Yeah, this is how this stuff works, yeah.

00:55:57 ◼   ► - The more I hear about this stuff,

00:56:00 ◼   ► the more I understand, it's just raw power.

00:56:02 ◼   ► And I think there's gonna be a lot of these things

00:56:05 ◼   ► where they will not be able to power it on device.

00:56:08 ◼   ► It has to be powered in a data center somewhere.

00:56:11 ◼   ► That's gonna be really interesting if they do that

00:56:13 ◼   ► because they've spent so much time over the last few years

00:56:16 ◼   ► about things that are on device, on device.

00:56:19 ◼   ► And maybe some of it will be able to, but I just,

00:56:22 ◼   ► I don't, you know, looking at the amount of data

00:56:26 ◼   ► that's processed for, say, chat GPT,

00:56:29 ◼   ► and it all needs to be done in these huge data centers,

00:56:32 ◼   ► I can't imagine the chip in my iPhone

00:56:34 ◼   ► is really gonna be able to be comparable with that, but.

00:56:37 ◼   ► - That's gonna be a lot of carbon to offset for Apple.

00:56:41 ◼   ► - Yes, yep. - That'll be interesting.

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00:58:58 ◼   ► So we've talked about rumors.

00:59:02 ◼   ► Now I wanna talk a little bit about what Apple has shipped.

00:59:07 ◼   ► And most recently, it was the,

00:59:09 ◼   ► I hope you're sitting down for this,

00:59:11 ◼   ► multimodal large language models guided image editing,

00:59:15 ◼   ► or MG, MG, MGIE?

00:59:19 ◼   ► MG, why is it not editor?

00:59:22 ◼   ► I don't know, man.

00:59:24 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:59:25 ◼   ► I feel like it kind of falls off at the end there.

00:59:27 ◼   ► It does.

00:59:29 ◼   ► This was covered, this was just a couple of weeks ago.

00:59:33 ◼   ► This is a tool that you can use to edit photos.

00:59:38 ◼   ► And there were some examples like here's a pizza,

00:59:41 ◼   ► make it more healthy, and it added vegetable toppings,

00:59:43 ◼   ► or lighten and enhance the image,

00:59:47 ◼   ► make the screen green instead of white.

00:59:50 ◼   ► I mean, kind of the basic image editing things

00:59:52 ◼   ► that most people may want to do, but may not know how to--

00:59:55 ◼   ► This pizza looks so bad.

00:59:57 ◼   ► Do people edit their photos

01:00:00 ◼   ► to make their pizzas look healthier?

01:00:03 ◼   ► Is that a thing that people do?

01:00:04 ◼   ► It's like, hey, hey, you're sending a text to your wife

01:00:07 ◼   ► or something like, hey, look, I got myself

01:00:10 ◼   ► such a healthy pizza tonight with all these veggies on top,

01:00:14 ◼   ► where in fact you got the dirtiest pepperoni ever.

01:00:18 ◼   ► Is that a thing that people do?

01:00:20 ◼   ► Okay.

01:00:22 ◼   ► I mean, maybe, look.

01:00:23 ◼   ► I guess this is more, it's not the practical application,

01:00:27 ◼   ► it's the theoretical, right, that like--

01:00:29 ◼   ► The theoretical.

01:00:30 ◼   ► You can say make this more healthy,

01:00:32 ◼   ► and its response is to add greenery, which--

01:00:36 ◼   ► And Rippy pops up like, uh-uh, I see what you're doing.

01:00:39 ◼   ► Yeah, Rippy's back, you can't eat that pizza.

01:00:43 ◼   ► Eat this bowl of broccoli instead.

01:00:45 ◼   ► Rippy won't stand for pizza.

01:00:49 ◼   ► And so like, yeah, look, it is ridiculous.

01:00:52 ◼   ► Like, honestly, the results of all of these

01:00:54 ◼   ► are just like really weird to me,

01:00:55 ◼   ► but I guess this is what these kinds of papers are like,

01:00:59 ◼   ► but I guess it's showing that it understood the request

01:01:04 ◼   ► even if the result is strange, right?

01:01:07 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that's what they're after,

01:01:10 ◼   ► and this, I think, is an example of like,

01:01:13 ◼   ► people get this sort of thing, right?

01:01:15 ◼   ► It's kind of hard to say like, oh, series enhanced with AI,

01:01:18 ◼   ► like what does that actually mean?

01:01:19 ◼   ► But if you could tell your computer, your phone,

01:01:22 ◼   ► hey, I have this picture of us,

01:01:24 ◼   ► and can you take that weird person out of the background?

01:01:29 ◼   ► Or, you know, whatever it is, like.

01:01:30 ◼   ► And if you look at what Samsung just did

01:01:32 ◼   ► on a bunch of their phones,

01:01:34 ◼   ► it's very much in this, sort of in this vein.

01:01:37 ◼   ► So it makes sense that Apple would get this out there

01:01:41 ◼   ► and let people be poking around it.

01:01:44 ◼   ► Like, apparently, like if you have the right software,

01:01:46 ◼   ► you can go play with this now.

01:01:47 ◼   ► I looked at it for like three seconds

01:01:49 ◼   ► and then realized this is beyond

01:01:51 ◼   ► what I'm capable of doing today, and I kind of moved on.

01:01:55 ◼   ► But it's out there in the world, you know,

01:01:58 ◼   ► well before it's in a product, right?

01:01:59 ◼   ► This isn't in iOS today, but it very well could be.

01:02:03 ◼   ► - Man, I don't know.

01:02:05 ◼   ► And there's just something to me about like,

01:02:08 ◼   ► that is weird for Apple to be like,

01:02:12 ◼   ► we made a Magic Editor as well.

01:02:14 ◼   ► There's just something about that,

01:02:18 ◼   ► that just feels strange.

01:02:19 ◼   ► This stuff is going to be so hard to sell to the world,

01:02:24 ◼   ► especially to us at WWDC.

01:02:26 ◼   ► Like, to show me all these things that you're doing,

01:02:30 ◼   ► things that today I think are dubious at best

01:02:34 ◼   ► that we've had this technology in our pockets.

01:02:37 ◼   ► And then Apple's like, we put it in photos, potentially.

01:02:40 ◼   ► And it's like, ah.

01:02:41 ◼   ► - I think it's weird because it's in direct contrast

01:02:45 ◼   ► to the fact that Apple usually prides itself

01:02:48 ◼   ► upon the pure art of photography.

01:02:53 ◼   ► And, you know, and like you're basically here

01:02:57 ◼   ► taking photography, and I know that they have

01:03:00 ◼   ► machine learning-based enhancements,

01:03:02 ◼   ► but they don't drastically alter the contents of a photo,

01:03:06 ◼   ► almost as a sacred entity, if you will.

01:03:09 ◼   ► And here we're talking about these features of like,

01:03:10 ◼   ► hey, I'll change this pizza,

01:03:13 ◼   ► or take out this person from the shot,

01:03:16 ◼   ► or like that fundamentally change the truth of a photo.

01:03:21 ◼   ► And so I think that's why, at least for me,

01:03:23 ◼   ► this all sounds very un-Apple-y at the moment, but.

01:03:26 ◼   ► - But maybe there's no choice.

01:03:28 ◼   ► - Maybe there's no choice.

01:03:30 ◼   ► - No.

01:03:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, I can't imagine, I mean, like you said,

01:03:35 ◼   ► this guy gets hired from Google,

01:03:37 ◼   ► and now he's doing all this.

01:03:38 ◼   ► I'm sure that wasn't the plan,

01:03:39 ◼   ► but maybe there is expectation set in the marketplace, right?

01:03:44 ◼   ► The Pixel can do this. - Oh, there is.

01:03:46 ◼   ► - Samsung stuff can do this.

01:03:47 ◼   ► Maybe they've got to.

01:03:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's what I mean.

01:03:50 ◼   ► I don't think that there is a choice.

01:03:52 ◼   ► Like, they can find their way of doing it,

01:03:54 ◼   ► but I think some of these features

01:03:56 ◼   ► are gonna start to become table stakes.

01:03:58 ◼   ► Like Magic Eraser is such a good commercial.

01:04:02 ◼   ► - Yes, yeah.

01:04:04 ◼   ► - Like, it is a fantastic commercial,

01:04:06 ◼   ► and I think they're gonna struggle with that, right?

01:04:10 ◼   ► 'Cause who doesn't have that one image in their library

01:04:13 ◼   ► where they really wish they could adjust it?

01:04:14 ◼   ► Like, it's just a thing people feel in their lives.

01:04:18 ◼   ► And I don't think it's in Google Photos today,

01:04:22 ◼   ► but like at a certain point, maybe Google do that.

01:04:24 ◼   ► I don't know, and then it's like makes it,

01:04:26 ◼   ► I don't know if it makes it better or worse,

01:04:28 ◼   ► but it's an awkward situation to be in

01:04:33 ◼   ► for if they take some kind of stance,

01:04:35 ◼   ► which is like, we're never gonna do this.

01:04:38 ◼   ► It's like, I think I might agree with what you're saying,

01:04:41 ◼   ► but from a business perspective,

01:04:43 ◼   ► that would not be a good idea, I don't think.

01:04:46 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:04:47 ◼   ► So moving on from the multimodal large language models

01:04:52 ◼   ► guided image editing, a related tool is Apple Keyframer.

01:04:57 ◼   ► And so this is an AI animation tool

01:04:59 ◼   ► that lets you take a single image

01:05:01 ◼   ► and then use natural language

01:05:03 ◼   ► to tell the assistant how to animate it.

01:05:07 ◼   ► So the example given in the nine to five article is

01:05:09 ◼   ► you have a picture of a planet,

01:05:11 ◼   ► you say make the planet spin, it builds the frames

01:05:15 ◼   ► and the animation to make that possible.

01:05:17 ◼   ► So related, but different.

01:05:20 ◼   ► And I think making things move,

01:05:23 ◼   ► like it sounds so stupid as I'm gonna say it,

01:05:25 ◼   ► but I really think it's a thing.

01:05:27 ◼   ► That takes the what is a photo, what is real concept

01:05:31 ◼   ► and really makes it more complicated, right?

01:05:34 ◼   ► We saw that with Sora, the open AI video generator

01:05:37 ◼   ► that I'm sure every one of the planet

01:05:39 ◼   ► has seen all this creepy videos.

01:05:41 ◼   ► Like there's something about these tools

01:05:42 ◼   ► making something move that feels like a bigger deal.

01:05:46 ◼   ► And I kind of had that same response

01:05:48 ◼   ► to learning about Keyframer.

01:05:50 ◼   ► - But it could also be really cool

01:05:52 ◼   ► for app and game development.

01:05:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, absolutely.

01:05:56 ◼   ► Like what, yeah, if this were built into Reality Composer

01:05:59 ◼   ► or something like that, right?

01:06:00 ◼   ► It could be a big deal.

01:06:02 ◼   ► - Yes, with playgrounds, like all the sort of tools,

01:06:05 ◼   ► I think it could be really helpful.

01:06:06 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Yeah.

01:06:08 ◼   ► - So some developer tools that they've released,

01:06:11 ◼   ► there's three that I wanna touch on.

01:06:13 ◼   ► Apple MLX, AX Learn library for deep learning.

01:06:18 ◼   ► And then my favorite name, Apple Ferret.

01:06:22 ◼   ► - Ferret. - Like the animal.

01:06:25 ◼   ► - Nice.

01:06:26 ◼   ► - So the first couple MLX and AX Learn library,

01:06:30 ◼   ► these are machine learning AI frameworks

01:06:33 ◼   ► where developers can use the frameworks

01:06:36 ◼   ► to run efficiently on Apple Silicon.

01:06:38 ◼   ► And then the AX Learn library is about taking that

01:06:42 ◼   ► and making it really large scale.

01:06:43 ◼   ► So these are tools--

01:06:45 ◼   ► - Tell me about the Ferret, I wanna know about the Ferret.

01:06:47 ◼   ► - There's something about the Ferret.

01:06:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, no one cares about this

01:06:48 ◼   ► 'cause you teach Ferret. - AX Learn,

01:06:50 ◼   ► no, give me the Ferret.

01:06:50 ◼   ► - Boo, Ferret, Ferret. - I'll give you the Ferret.

01:06:53 ◼   ► - Ferret, Ferret, Ferret.

01:06:55 ◼   ► - So Apple Ferret is a joint project

01:06:58 ◼   ► between Apple and Cornell University.

01:07:00 ◼   ► - Okay, okay, educated.

01:07:02 ◼   ► - Education and-- - Highbrow Ferret.

01:07:04 ◼   ► Ivy League Ferret.

01:07:06 ◼   ► - He's wearing a little tie, you know?

01:07:08 ◼   ► And it is research into how large language models

01:07:14 ◼   ► can recognize elements within a picture image.

01:07:18 ◼   ► So if you look at the link in the show notes,

01:07:20 ◼   ► it's like a picture of a cat.

01:07:23 ◼   ► And how do we know what the tail of the cat looks like?

01:07:26 ◼   ► - Obviously, the Ferret would know it's a cat.

01:07:28 ◼   ► - Yep, or Ferret.

01:07:30 ◼   ► How do we know where the head of the Ferret is

01:07:31 ◼   ► versus the foot of the Ferret, right?

01:07:34 ◼   ► So you can see how this could play in

01:07:37 ◼   ► with the other things we've spoken about, right?

01:07:39 ◼   ► If you're gonna have an image editor

01:07:41 ◼   ► or an animation editor.

01:07:42 ◼   ► Well, those things need to know what things are, right?

01:07:46 ◼   ► So if it's like, hey, take the tail off this cat,

01:07:50 ◼   ► maybe you don't like-- - No, don't do it.

01:07:52 ◼   ► - Well, you can't do it in real life,

01:07:53 ◼   ► but you could do it in AI.

01:07:55 ◼   ► - No. - No, you shouldn't.

01:07:57 ◼   ► - But it also needs to know for cutting things out of images

01:07:59 ◼   ► and like, okay, what is attached to the cat?

01:08:01 ◼   ► Do cats have tails?

01:08:03 ◼   ► Computers don't know any of this stuff.

01:08:04 ◼   ► Computers are stupid, and so we have to teach them.

01:08:07 ◼   ► And so Apple Ferret is looking at how do we build models

01:08:12 ◼   ► where images understand the components

01:08:16 ◼   ► that make up the subjects in those images.

01:08:19 ◼   ► Apple Ferret.

01:08:20 ◼   ► - I'm sure there are a lot of people

01:08:22 ◼   ► working really hard on this stuff, right?

01:08:23 ◼   ► It seems very, very complicated.

01:08:25 ◼   ► - Very nerdy.

01:08:26 ◼   ► - But whenever I see these papers, so both of these,

01:08:30 ◼   ► why does, like, why don't they just get someone

01:08:33 ◼   ► to help them design the graphics?

01:08:35 ◼   ► Like, what happens?

01:08:37 ◼   ► Like, so on the previous one,

01:08:39 ◼   ► we were talking about with the pizza,

01:08:40 ◼   ► like, I've seen this image a bunch of times now,

01:08:43 ◼   ► and like, why doesn't the text,

01:08:45 ◼   ► why don't the text labels actually line up with the images?

01:08:48 ◼   ► It looks like it was made in Word,

01:08:50 ◼   ► which I'm like 100% sure it was made in Word.

01:08:53 ◼   ► Like, you got the two images,

01:08:55 ◼   ► you got like the two text labels,

01:08:56 ◼   ► and like one of the text labels

01:08:58 ◼   ► is like only over 25% of the image,

01:09:00 ◼   ► and the other one is like flocked 100% to the image.

01:09:03 ◼   ► And then this Ferret one, like, what is going on?

01:09:06 ◼   ► What is that cartoon character in the corner?

01:09:09 ◼   ► Like, what is happening in these images?

01:09:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, come on,

01:09:14 ◼   ► SVP of AI, hire a graphic designer, you know?

01:09:17 ◼   ► Just one, just one graphic designer.

01:09:19 ◼   ► - No, it's big, graphic design is my passion and energy

01:09:22 ◼   ► in all these images, for sure.

01:09:24 ◼   ► - Or, you know, if you really don't wanna hire someone,

01:09:27 ◼   ► make a machine learning model to do it, you know?

01:09:31 ◼   ► Just like, make someone do it for you.

01:09:34 ◼   ► It's a very strange.

01:09:36 ◼   ► - It is.

01:09:37 ◼   ► - It's very strange.

01:09:38 ◼   ► - It really is.

01:09:40 ◼   ► The last thing I just wanna point out,

01:09:42 ◼   ► Apple has obviously also published research materials.

01:09:45 ◼   ► I picked this one 'cause of the name,

01:09:47 ◼   ► Specialized Language Models for Cheap Inference

01:09:50 ◼   ► on Limited Domain Data.

01:09:52 ◼   ► So it has to do with the other frameworks they've done,

01:09:55 ◼   ► basically looking at cost efficient approaches

01:09:59 ◼   ► to AI development.

01:10:01 ◼   ► And what I thought when I saw this was twofold.

01:10:03 ◼   ► One, this could be great for small developers

01:10:08 ◼   ► or people who are gonna kinda do this in their own app

01:10:10 ◼   ► or on their own servers somehow.

01:10:13 ◼   ► Or if Apple's gonna do a bunch of this,

01:10:16 ◼   ► they want it to be cheaper for them and their data centers

01:10:18 ◼   ► if they do it on the data center.

01:10:20 ◼   ► But cheaper and cost efficient also means smaller.

01:10:23 ◼   ► And maybe this also has to do,

01:10:25 ◼   ► look, I skimmed this paper.

01:10:28 ◼   ► I didn't understand every third word.

01:10:29 ◼   ► It is hard to understand what these people are doing

01:10:31 ◼   ► if you're just a regular person like we are.

01:10:34 ◼   ► But you can imagine this sort of research also goes into,

01:10:38 ◼   ► I wanna run this locally on a phone.

01:10:40 ◼   ► I wanna run this locally on a laptop.

01:10:42 ◼   ► And making this more efficient is cheaper in the data center

01:10:46 ◼   ► and makes it possible along with the other frameworks

01:10:49 ◼   ► that you cut me off about Apple Silicon

01:10:51 ◼   ► and making it as efficient as possible there.

01:10:53 ◼   ► Like these pieces are coming together, right?

01:10:56 ◼   ► That Apple is like putting all these pieces,

01:10:58 ◼   ► putting them together.

01:10:59 ◼   ► And I think products are gonna come out at the other end.

01:11:01 ◼   ► I think we're gonna start to see that this summer.

01:11:03 ◼   ► And that's fun.

01:11:04 ◼   ► And it's fun to see what they're doing ahead of time

01:11:07 ◼   ► 'cause normally we don't get this, you know what I mean?

01:11:11 ◼   ► - These people are so smart.

01:11:13 ◼   ► Like I'm looking at that paper you referenced, Steven.

01:11:16 ◼   ► The people that do this stuff, they're just so clever.

01:11:20 ◼   ► Like in a whole different world.

01:11:22 ◼   ► - In a way they will never be this smart, you know?

01:11:25 ◼   ► - I'm happy with my talents and my skills in life.

01:11:29 ◼   ► Like I'm confident in those and I'm happy with where I am.

01:11:32 ◼   ► I will never be this smart.

01:11:34 ◼   ► And I don't think there is any course of my life

01:11:37 ◼   ► that could have led me to be able to write

01:11:40 ◼   ► specialized language models with cheap inference

01:11:42 ◼   ► from limited domain data.

01:11:44 ◼   ► I don't think I could have ever done this.

01:11:46 ◼   ► - It was never in the cards for any of us.

01:11:47 ◼   ► - It was not gonna happen for me, it just wasn't.

01:11:49 ◼   ► And you know what?

01:11:50 ◼   ► I'm fine with that.

01:11:51 ◼   ► I'm fine with that.

01:11:52 ◼   ► - The highest I can go is probably buy an actual ferret.

01:11:56 ◼   ► I think that's as far as I can put it.

01:11:58 ◼   ► - That's as far as your brain will allow.

01:11:59 ◼   ► - As far as I, look, I have a ferret.

01:12:01 ◼   ► I'd like an actual ferret.

01:12:02 ◼   ► - Ferret ownership.

01:12:03 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:12:05 ◼   ► Steven, thank you for this research.

01:12:08 ◼   ► All the links, thank you.

01:12:11 ◼   ► I think hopefully we have a better understanding

01:12:13 ◼   ► of at least some of the things that are expecting us in June.

01:12:18 ◼   ► I'm sure more reports will come out

01:12:19 ◼   ► over the next couple of months, but this is great.

01:12:22 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:12:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was really fascinating to see what they're doing.

01:12:26 ◼   ► And like I said a second ago,

01:12:28 ◼   ► software and hardware, we get rumors, right?

01:12:31 ◼   ► But this is actual work that Apple is doing in the field.

01:12:35 ◼   ► And that's just so unlike what we normally get to talk about.

01:12:39 ◼   ► So it was a lot of fun to dive into.

01:12:42 ◼   ► - I think what this shows is that

01:12:44 ◼   ► if you wanna do this stuff, you will only get good hires

01:12:48 ◼   ► if you allow them to publish.

01:12:50 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:12:51 ◼   ► - And it is so on Apple,

01:12:53 ◼   ► but I think is a good sign that they're serious, right?

01:12:58 ◼   ► Like for example, we spoke about it before,

01:13:02 ◼   ► like if you write, people that write stuff on the app store,

01:13:05 ◼   ► they don't put their names on it.

01:13:06 ◼   ► Like they're not allowed to put their names on it.

01:13:08 ◼   ► Like you can't sign like, oh, I was this person

01:13:11 ◼   ► and I wrote this story on the app store, right?

01:13:13 ◼   ► Like that's not a thing that the writers

01:13:16 ◼   ► and the app store teams get to do.

01:13:19 ◼   ► And that maybe limits the type of people

01:13:21 ◼   ► that they would be able to employ,

01:13:22 ◼   ► people that want to put their name on their work.

01:13:25 ◼   ► But like this is an example of that,

01:13:27 ◼   ► where if you are a researcher, you want to be published

01:13:31 ◼   ► because that's what it's all about.

01:13:34 ◼   ► And they are allowing these people to do that

01:13:37 ◼   ► because I guess, because they are aware of the fact

01:13:39 ◼   ► that they're only gonna get the brightest minds

01:13:42 ◼   ► if they allow them to continue publishing.

01:13:45 ◼   ► And I expect that there's some stuff

01:13:47 ◼   ► that they can't publish yet,

01:13:48 ◼   ► but we'll be able to publish later

01:13:49 ◼   ► once the products have been announced as well.

01:13:52 ◼   ► And that you kind of get it that way.

01:13:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think there'll be a whole flood

01:13:57 ◼   ► of these white papers and research documents.

01:14:00 ◼   ► Again, not that we know what they say,

01:14:01 ◼   ► like seriously, go look at the PDF that's in the show notes.

01:14:05 ◼   ► It's next level.

01:14:06 ◼   ► It's very easy to get through the first like three sentences

01:14:11 ◼   ► and then it falls apart real fast, real fast.

01:14:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, and then you get into like some of the later pages,

01:14:16 ◼   ► there's like mathematical equations.

01:14:19 ◼   ► - There's a lot of charts and there's a lot of lines.

01:14:21 ◼   ► And I guess I should know what the generic pre-training cost

01:14:25 ◼   ► versus generic complexity graph is,

01:14:28 ◼   ► but I actually don't know what that means.

01:14:30 ◼   ► - Well, have you considered the conclusion

01:14:32 ◼   ► of the hyper network research on small documents?

01:14:36 ◼   ► - You just opened it up for me, now I understand.

01:14:38 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:14:39 ◼   ► - Good. - Thank you.

01:14:40 ◼   ► - Good.

01:14:41 ◼   ► I think that does it for this week.

01:14:44 ◼   ► Thanks for hanging out with us.

01:14:46 ◼   ► We love doing this show and we love doing it for you.

01:14:48 ◼   ► - Hope you found it pleasurable.

01:14:49 ◼   ► - We did, the most pleasurable podcast.

01:14:52 ◼   ► If you want more of us, we're online.

01:14:55 ◼   ► Federico is the editor-in-chief of maxstories.net.

01:14:58 ◼   ► Continues to be the home of amazing Vision OS app coverage.

01:15:01 ◼   ► Like I feel like every time I open max stories,

01:15:03 ◼   ► you're costing me money.

01:15:05 ◼   ► I've downloaded so many new apps.

01:15:07 ◼   ► - Great.

01:15:07 ◼   ► - If only there was an app affiliate program

01:15:09 ◼   ► you could take advantage of.

01:15:10 ◼   ► - I know, right?

01:15:11 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:15:14 ◼   ► - Too soon?

01:15:14 ◼   ► Federico is on threads as Vatici

01:15:17 ◼   ► and he's on Mastodon as vatici@maxstories.net.

01:15:22 ◼   ► You can find Mike's work on a bunch of other shows

01:15:25 ◼   ► here on Relay FM.

01:15:26 ◼   ► Episode 500 of Upgrade, congratulations.

01:15:29 ◼   ► - Thank you.

01:15:30 ◼   ► - You started after us, but you passed us in numbers.

01:15:32 ◼   ► - Yep, it's just a very strange thing to have occurred.

01:15:35 ◼   ► - It is very, very strange.

01:15:38 ◼   ► A lovely episode, y'all talked about the report card.

01:15:41 ◼   ► You do this cool thing where you do,

01:15:43 ◼   ► basically it's like a lame version of the Ricky's

01:15:46 ◼   ► for every hundred episodes.

01:15:48 ◼   ► - I wouldn't call it that, it's a draft,

01:15:50 ◼   ► which I think drafts predate the Ricky's.

01:15:53 ◼   ► - That doesn't sound right to me.

01:15:55 ◼   ► - Right, okay, okay.

01:15:57 ◼   ► - I'll come back with a white paper.

01:15:59 ◼   ► You can follow Mike on threads as imike

01:16:01 ◼   ► and he is on Mastodon as imike@mike.social.

01:16:05 ◼   ► You can find my writing on 512pixels.net

01:16:08 ◼   ► and I co-host Mac Power Users.

01:16:10 ◼   ► It comes out each and every Sunday here on Relay FM.

01:16:13 ◼   ► I am ismh@eworld.social on Mastodon

01:16:16 ◼   ► and ismh86 over on threads.

01:16:20 ◼   ► I'd like to thank our sponsors this week,

01:16:22 ◼   ► NetSuite, Nom Nom, and Squarespace.

01:16:24 ◼   ► And until next time, say goodbye.

01:16:27 ◼   ► - I'll leave it there, cheerio.

01:16:29 ◼   ► - Bye, y'all.