507: Differently Social


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade. Episode 507 for April 8th 2024. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:17   Delete Me, Adblock Pro, Fitbud and Vitaly. My name is Mike Hurley and I have the pleasure of being joined by

00:00:24   Jay Casey-Liss. Welcome to the show Casey-Liss.

00:00:30   Mm-hmm my triumphant return. We're gonna go with that.

00:00:33   We're gonna get to that in a little bit but to start off I have a Liss Talk question for you and it comes from

00:00:39   listener Justin. How many Apple Watch bands do you have and how often do you change them?

00:00:44   So I'm gonna bring some interesting energy to the show immediately and tell you, Mike, that I saw

00:00:50   that this was in the show notes document and I thought to myself, "Self, you need to go and look

00:00:55   at how many Apple Watch bands you have so you can answer this question when it's time to record."

00:01:00   And then Michaela has been sick for the last few days and everything has been upside down in

00:01:03   topsy-turvy and so I neglected to go and actually count.

00:01:07   No this is good. This is the the energy I expected from you.

00:01:11   I'm not sure if I should be offended or not but we're just gonna plow forward. So I off the top of

00:01:18   my head, so this is actually a very complicated question because I used to rock the larger size

00:01:24   watch. I believe it was a 42 millimeter if I'm not mistaken at the time. You're the watch person so

00:01:29   you tell me but I think at the time was 42 millimeters and then when it did the switch from

00:01:33   42 to 44 something broke in my brain and I somehow decided that was just impossibly too large for my

00:01:39   for my little wrist and so whatever year that was, it was several years ago now, I switched and I came

00:01:45   down to what is it 38 millimeters now? I think it used to be 36 now it's 38 something along those

00:01:50   lines and so now Aaron and I are on the same size watch and thus we can share watch bands and that

00:01:56   means although I accrued I would guess between five and ten watch bands over the course of my

00:02:03   42 millimeter time, I now had access to all of Aaron's watch bands and I was you know since in

00:02:09   the last couple years I've brought some of my own to the party ever you know on the occasions we get

00:02:12   I get a new apple watch whatever the case may be so I would guess all told that of the small size

00:02:19   watch bands which is the ones that are relevant right now because I'm wearing a small size watch

00:02:22   which is the 41 millimeter watch is it no is it yeah used to be 38 but now it's 41 wow I had that

00:02:30   all wrong I'm thankful for that correction so thank you so anyway so of the of those size bands

00:02:36   I would guess we have 10 ish that are almost exclusively sport or sport adjacent bands you

00:02:43   know we don't have like a well I did have a Milanese a knockoff Milanese Milanese whatever

00:02:48   it's called for the big one but like we don't have any of those for the small ones I think Aaron has

00:02:52   one with like a traditional clasp on it you know like the the pokey through the the metal pokey bit

00:02:59   that now I'm not talking the pin on the sport band you know what I'm talking about like the

00:03:02   the rectangle and you have a little pokey bit like on a belt is it an apple one or is it a

00:03:06   no it's enough okay we just call it a class we'll just call it okay there you go but the only time

00:03:12   I generally switch watch bands there's two times I switch watch bands the first time is I really like

00:03:18   the completely featureless just band of silicone or whatever it is silicon thing what do they call

00:03:25   that like the sport something or other where there's no holes in it oh so not the sport band

00:03:30   you like just just the the fluoro elastomer solo loop yes it's liquid silicone rubber

00:03:38   it's the fluoro elastomer was what the original ones were made made of okay so the solo loop

00:03:43   that's what I was thinking of so I really like the solo loop but in my experience they last

00:03:47   approximately three to six months before I somehow get a cut in them and then they immediately just

00:03:52   give way and so you cut them like the like they break when you they break I've had two or three

00:03:58   and every single one of them is broken which is really a bummer I'm not a fan of that like I don't

00:04:03   like the the idea of like just pulling a piece of like I don't yeah you know like uh they're what

00:04:09   they remind me of is when you go swimming and you have a locker key and it's on a little band that

00:04:15   you have to like put and I don't like that experience I guess yeah I've never never dug

00:04:20   those ones yeah I like them even though I'd like I like on the traditional sport loop which is what

00:04:25   I typically wear I like being able to bring it one notch tighter when I'm actively working out

00:04:29   because I've told myself that helps with like heart rate monitoring that may or may not be true

00:04:33   that's just what I've told myself but in any case so when I get a new watch I will inevitably go

00:04:38   back to the solo loop and then six months later I will regret it and then I will return to my some

00:04:43   flavor of deep-ish blue apple branded uh sport what is this this traditional the standard issue

00:04:50   sport band sport band there you go okay so that's what I'm wearing right now is like a bluish sport

00:04:56   band with you know the the the pin and the holes and whatnot in the smaller of the available sizes

00:05:01   but when it's football season in the fall and by that I mean American football uh we have season

00:05:07   tickets to Aaron's alma my wife's alma mater uh the University of Virginia and so what I'll do is

00:05:13   I'll typically take one half of this blue sport band and one half of an orange sport band because

00:05:21   that's their school colors is blue and orange and I will mix them together if you will so I'll have

00:05:25   an orange and blue setup that I'll put on for that Saturday and then I will take it off on Sunday and

00:05:30   go back to my traditional blue or occasionally I'll wear green that reminds me of do you remember

00:05:34   when apple did the um the Olympic watch bands and they had like bands for every country they were

00:05:42   weird and fun so very cool thank you for that extensive information sorry we're already on a

00:05:48   journey one question I'm putting in the show notes an app called band bright which zach put in the

00:05:54   discord which is like an an iphone app to track your band oh that's very clever uh we've been

00:06:00   I think we spoke about this before I've mentioned before in the uk apple calls them straps not bands

00:06:06   oh interesting because that's what we call that like we call it one strap not a watch band but

00:06:10   like when you go to the apple website it says straps instead of bands my current favorite

00:06:15   apple watch band is the uh it's one of the ultra ones I think it's called the trail

00:06:23   band I'm now going so I'm now I'm also ill prepared so I like the I have I have the

00:06:31   I haven't got the alpine loop it's the trail loop I also have the ocean band which I kind of like

00:06:37   but the orange beige trail loop is my current favorite but they get a bit dirty right because

00:06:42   it's like it's like the sport loops uh not sport the sport oh man I'm the yeah the sport loop it's

00:06:49   like that it's that kind of like velcro-y uh feeling you know so they get a little bit dirty

00:06:55   but I also love the magnetic link but the ones made of leather not the fine woven one

00:07:02   when they announced the fine woven I bought one of the leather ones another one because I used one

00:07:07   on my previous watch and kind of wore it out I love it in blue and now I have this other one

00:07:12   sometimes I change into that one if I want to dress up my apple watch but it's it's it's

00:07:17   difficult to dress up the apple watch ultra in my opinion it was easier to dress up my gold

00:07:21   stainless steel at least I had the gold milanase which I still have but don't have a watch that's

00:07:26   really good to wear it with right I got that also a real-time follow-up I forgot to mention

00:07:30   I have one of the original pride official apple pride bands I think it's like a velcro-y one yeah

00:07:35   and I actually really like that one I haven't had it on in a few months now but I really like that

00:07:39   one and occasionally switch to that one too I forgot about that that's the sport loop and yes

00:07:44   and that's right yeah so it feels similar in construction to the to the trail loop thank you

00:07:50   so much to Justin for sending in that question if you would like to send in a question of your own

00:07:55   to help us open the show just go to upgrade feedback.com and you can send it in Casey

00:08:01   welcome back to the show well thank you I'm so pleased to be here so Jason's away he's looking

00:08:07   at the sky today so he's looking at the eclipse you have any interest in the eclipse I do but

00:08:14   Virginia is not terribly close to the path of totality and so I think it's starting like as

00:08:21   we are ending the show for me it's gonna start as we're ending the show well we'll see

00:08:25   who knows how long the show's gonna go you know yeah right well given we've went to

00:08:29   you have 10-ish minutes on Snell Talk slash List Talk this may be a four-hour adventure but

00:08:33   nevertheless it should be starting sometime around I think two or three in the afternoon

00:08:39   my time and it's currently shortly after noon as we record so we'll see what happens but yeah I

00:08:44   mean I'm interested in it but it's not if I see it great if I don't I'm not gonna I'm not gonna

00:08:49   weep about it but I wasn't about to go out of my way to do it probably because I've just been very

00:08:54   busy recently and couldn't handle trying to put all that effort together but no I mean it's

00:09:00   certainly fun we had one go through Virginia and I think it was either a total eclipse or darn near

00:09:03   one several years ago now it was probably six seven years ago and that was really cool but and

00:09:09   I prepared you know a pinhole like viewing thing out of an old Tom Bihn box and that was neat but

00:09:15   this time I've done absolutely nothing to prepare other than tell the kids don't look at the sun

00:09:19   perfect that's probably the most important thing to be honest just don't look at the sun kids use

00:09:24   that as just like a general rule since you were on the show last time you have released your

00:09:29   fabulously popular application call sheet can you give the elevator elevator pitch for call sheet

00:09:35   yeah so so call sheet if you're not familiar is an app that lets you look up cast and crew

00:09:42   information and information about tv shows and movies and things like that and it does it super

00:09:47   fast and it's pretty well designed if I'm if I may be so bold as to say so you can get a lot

00:09:52   of information very quickly and it's trying it tries to do well with respecting its users so

00:09:59   there's no pop-ups there's no advertising it is a subscription app although you get 20 searches for

00:10:05   free there's features for preventing spoilers so the canonical example for this no spoilers is that

00:10:12   I was watching the the incredible HBO miniseries Watchmen several years ago and one of the

00:10:18   characters in that show I will not specify which they have dual roles like they have a secret

00:10:24   identity right and I looked at the internet movie database IMDB to see information about these

00:10:30   different actors and actresses and whatnot and I saw you know oh Joe Smith is character A/character

00:10:36   B and I didn't know about the secret identity yet I was very years later I'm very upset by this and

00:10:41   so one of the things that Call Sheet allows you to do for tv shows anyway is that you can say well

00:10:46   I don't want to see character names or I don't want to see how many episodes they're in in case

00:10:50   you know this character is killed off after three episodes or what have you or I don't want to see

00:10:53   the thumbnails for the episodes and things like that and the other nice thing about it is for

00:10:57   things like tv episodes and movies where there's a there's a concrete and discrete release date

00:11:02   in the list of the cast and the crew and whatnot it'll actually show okay well this person was 38

00:11:06   years old when this was released this person was 43 years old and maybe that sounds a little silly

00:11:11   but for me I always am curious as to you know how old actors and actresses and crew are so

00:11:15   yeah that's good I was just doing the thing which I'll be able to tell people about in a couple of

00:11:21   weeks and I was it was helpful for me to be able to see the people in this movie because like just

00:11:28   to see how old they were like I actually found that useful because the movie was on the older

00:11:33   side so that's pretty cool Call Sheet is available wherever you have your Apple platforms right so

00:11:38   it's on the iPhone, iPad, Mac and even on Vision Pro as well which I think is a nice addition if

00:11:44   you have a Vision Pro and you're watching movies and of course there'll be a link in the show notes

00:11:47   so people should go check it out it's one of my favorite apps of the last couple of years

00:11:51   and not just because Casey's my friend it's just a genuinely very good application that I use

00:11:56   every couple of days at least to look something up so it's fantastic good work

00:12:01   well thank you I appreciate it we have some follow-up now you weren't on last week's episode

00:12:06   but I think you'll understand the follow-up anyway so we were talking about leaks so we had the Andrew

00:12:12   Owadade leak story and an anonymous person wrote in to say I just wanted to say that I worked for

00:12:18   Apple in their hardware division for close to eight years and I was reached out to by at least

00:12:23   five reporters in that time and I know a bunch of folks who had the same experience I'd like to

00:12:28   point out that in my anecdotal experience reporters reaching out is far more common

00:12:32   than the other way around not surprised to me no definitely not I well it's not a surprise that

00:12:39   it's flowing that direction and yet at the same time I kind of wonder like what does the reporters

00:12:43   play here like just cruising LinkedIn and trying to find people who list their employers Apple and

00:12:49   just cold calling them or whatever sources right I guess I don't know I don't have the gumption to

00:12:54   do that think about it right if you're if you're at Mark Gorman now right it's all good like you

00:12:59   know what I mean he's getting people coming to him all the time but if you're starting up or you're

00:13:03   like lower in the rock maybe Mark Gorman 10 years ago where did how those connections get built

00:13:09   wasn't there some sort of story I might be making this up but I thought there was a story that one

00:13:13   of his initial sources was like his girlfriend or like his girlfriend's brother or something like

00:13:16   that years ago I don't know if that's true or not you are half remembering a story okay that

00:13:22   I'm not sure if it was a story that was public or it was a story that was just has been shared

00:13:27   around over the years but I'm pretty sure I've heard it on podcast too and I think I've even

00:13:31   mentioned it that a source of his was a sibling of someone who worked at Apple and that person got

00:13:41   fired I see okay that's that is the story as I know it but it could be his say I think that's

00:13:47   what you're remembering yeah I think you're right and either way I mean your point is completely

00:13:51   fair that somehow some way you need to build up this this clientele is not the right word for it

00:13:56   you know this list of sources and I guess cold calling might work I guess if you happen to hit

00:14:01   that disgruntled employee at the right moment but I don't know I'm surprised it's it works enough

00:14:06   that people you know actually execute on it maybe it doesn't work though you know that's fair it's

00:14:11   the thing that people try it doesn't mean it's going to work I think that people that are likely

00:14:16   to want to share this kind of stuff they're probably actively attempting to do that rather

00:14:22   than like getting that email and being like oh yeah now's the time to spill the beans

00:14:27   we've been talking a lot about immersive video apple has announced that a new episode of the

00:14:34   Pre-Astonic Planet immersive video series for vision pro will be released on April 19th so

00:14:39   the slow drip feed continues imagine my surprise as I was preparing for the show and I looked in

00:14:45   the show notes and I saw that there's a new episode coming and I said there is yeah well

00:14:48   you've got 11 days to prepare um of all of the the immersive video this is actually an episode

00:14:55   that I couldn't finish I actually I want to go back to it but the the initial shots of this it's

00:15:00   kind of like drone footage going towards an island and it's like movement it's there to make me feel

00:15:04   I think a little bit motion sick which I'd never experienced before uh and so I bailed out of that

00:15:09   but I do want to go back and watch it so maybe I'll check it out another time but you shared

00:15:13   something with me which is yes kind of immersive video it's not from apple although I think apple

00:15:18   was quite heavily involved in this I think just judging by the way some of the things look in the

00:15:23   video and some of the products used in the video but there is a gucci app which features in the

00:15:30   vision pro version an interactive video documentary about gucci's new creative director sabato d'assano

00:15:38   and it shows his first fashion show which I think was in the beginning of last year beginning of

00:15:46   this year I think um it was it's basically a 20 30 minute video showing his first fashion show

00:15:53   but as you're watching the video in like a like a window or a video window things are breaking out

00:16:00   and like taking over an immersive space around you or being in your environment it's really cool and

00:16:06   you can pause the video at certain points and look at the products and look at his sketches

00:16:12   of the collection that he put together this is the kind of stuff that like these little things

00:16:18   come out and you're like oh there you go like that that's that's something right like that that's

00:16:24   what that's one of the reasons to have this thing like it's it's experiences like this one it's very

00:16:29   cool where did you find it so this was emailed to the ATP feedback and by Jason F and they had said

00:16:38   like this is incredible I can't believe nobody's talking about it I had never even heard of it

00:16:42   well it's just in the gucci app you know what I mean so like yeah not not really a thing that

00:16:47   me and you were checking frequently exactly so one way or another I only had the chance to watch the

00:16:53   first five maybe 10 minutes so far and I do plan to watch the rest because it's really what I went

00:16:58   into this it's absolutely worth it it's also just a well-made documentary like it's just a well-made

00:17:03   little documentary it is absolutely worth your time and so like a couple of quick examples from

00:17:07   the first five minutes there's at one point where they're talking about like train tracks I forget

00:17:13   the context but there was some sort of like train or maybe they were doing a photo shoot at a train

00:17:16   or tram or whatever and so you're like Mike had said you know imagine a rectangle where you're

00:17:22   watching this video and then suddenly there's like train or tram or whatever tracks extending out not

00:17:28   from the inside of the of the rectangle like above or behind the rectangle it's like the background

00:17:34   suddenly becomes train tracks or tram or what have you and then this tram car just comes in like a

00:17:39   3d tram car this is totally outside of your rectangular viewing window it just comes in from

00:17:44   the side of your available you know visual space and just kind of parks for a second and chills and

00:17:49   then there was another part where they were talking about that the fashion show was going to be

00:17:53   in this like era I forget what city it was it doesn't really matter it's an Italian city

00:17:57   oh it was Milan okay thank you so in Milan there's this small corner of Milan there's like this

00:18:02   cobblestone area and it leads up to a church and so there you're looking at this in a standard you

00:18:07   know rectangular viewport and then all of a sudden the the stuff that's going on behind the viewport

00:18:12   instead of your desk or your living room wherever you're watching this it becomes a 3d rendering of

00:18:18   that like street corner if you will and so you see the church right there in front of you and it's

00:18:22   it's not subtle subtle isn't the word I'm looking for but it's it's immersive it's very it's very

00:18:30   immersive and it's not immersive in the sense like the Apple demo stuff is which I love I'm not trying

00:18:34   to you know throw shade on the Apple demo stuff but that the entire experience is immersive and

00:18:39   you can look around and see different things and whatnot it's it's how do you take a regular video

00:18:44   and complement it with VR elements that's right exactly where the video is just the video it's not

00:18:54   it's not altered by the fact that you're wearing it in the vision pro but the environment around

00:18:59   the video screen is enhanced yep this is the kind of stuff where you see it and it's like

00:19:04   these are the things that can be done like these are the things that somebody you see these little

00:19:10   breadcrumbs and like you understand how early we are in it like I gotta say I'm I find it

00:19:19   frustrating that people are saying that the vision pro is dead like yeah agreed it's too soon it's

00:19:27   way too soon and I think that we need these are the types of experiences that will exist and we're

00:19:33   going to talk about another one later on in the episode where they become these little green shoots

00:19:38   that can become something bigger in a few years time which I in my opinion was the whole point

00:19:45   of this in the first place and we're getting there and like to me this was another example of this of

00:19:51   like oh this isn't an immersive video it's not a regular video I'm not watching this video inside

00:19:56   of a movie theater environment I'm watching this video and then all of a sudden I'm being delighted

00:20:01   and surprised by these things that are popping up and then for something like a Gucci runway show

00:20:07   the fact that I can look at like AR versions of the products and move them around make them bigger

00:20:15   and smaller and take a look at the bags and the shoes and the jewelry like that's fantastic for

00:20:20   Gucci right because now I can experience that be like oh that fashion show was beautiful these

00:20:24   clothes are amazing let me look at this bag so I think it's a very if you have a vision pro take

00:20:30   the 20 minutes and watch this it's also just one of those things which I love of the story of a

00:20:34   creative person and how they overcome challenges to produce something it's really cool yeah yeah

00:20:40   again I only saw the first five maybe 10 minutes and it was 100% worth your time and like Mike was

00:20:44   saying I like that it's kind of like two and a half d in that the video is the video it's a

00:20:50   regular 2d video Mike has said it a couple times I'll reiterate that but everything is happening

00:20:53   around it it's like you know salt beige sprinkled a little like 3d on top of a regular or immersion

00:20:58   I guess is a better way to put it on top of a regular 2d video it's very very clever and very

00:21:05   very well done and I could not care less about fashion it is not my thing do not care and I was

00:21:11   riveted in the five or ten minutes I was watching this it is definitely worth your time

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00:24:03   everybody's favorite segment it is dma today are you excited to be a part of dma today today casey

00:24:09   i am overjoyed to be a part of dma today today today will be a great day to do dma today

00:24:14   the verge has published a first look at alt store which is planning to be one of the first

00:24:19   alternative app marketplaces in europe it's a really good piece um i have a couple of tidbits

00:24:25   that i wanted to pull out of this article but i recommend reading it so one with alt store apps

00:24:30   can monetize via patreon and offer the app as a puck and you can link the two together two things

00:24:36   that are interesting about this one there are other ways to pay for things who knew it's patreon

00:24:43   but also with patreon but if you tie the app to a pledge you can limit the amount of people that

00:24:50   can claim that pledge so therefore oh yes i see okay yeah yeah yeah you as the developer could

00:24:57   get out of the core technology fee however the alternative app marketplaces how they're going

00:25:05   to pay for their core technology fee like that is different apps are doing it in different ways

00:25:10   because if you're at marketplace you have to pay the core technology fee no matter what some uh are

00:25:15   passing that on in the form of a subscription to the developers alt store as a publishing cycle

00:25:21   haven't announced that that's being done but you as the developer still don't have to pay it until

00:25:25   you hit that million threshold where you could set the tier there and then maybe have a more expensive

00:25:31   tier for the one after that if you hit that right so it gives you that flexibility in your business

00:25:37   and the sense that you couldn't the app couldn't just explode overnight because you're able to cap

00:25:41   it so that's cool apps in alt store as well do things that other ios apps cannot do for example

00:25:50   there is an app that is shown off called clip which is a clipboard manager clip stays awake in

00:25:56   the background using the mapkit apis so this is something that app store apps can't do because

00:26:02   you can't use the mapkit api for this apple will reject you so and what happens is if you copy a

00:26:08   piece of if you like select some text and press copy you get a push notification immediately it's

00:26:12   like hey do you want to save that and you can just interact with the notification and save so it's

00:26:17   like a true clipboard manager we have a little bit of a weird workaround but the fun thing about this

00:26:23   is the mapkit solution was the solution that notarization approved after some back and forth

00:26:29   no but like so it's existing right this is a a feature an app store app would be rejected for

00:26:37   but it's in alt store having gone through notarization like the original method whatever

00:26:43   it was for staying awake in the background apple said you can't do that via notarization because

00:26:49   it was like a misuse of an api but they allowed the mapkit use so interesting times of course the

00:26:57   delta emulator for nintendo games old nintendo systems is in alt store that's the ryletester

00:27:04   who created delta also created and is running um alt store so obviously that would be in there

00:27:11   do you have anything you'd like to mention about alt store before i move on to the other emulator

00:27:15   piece of news uh just briefly i i don't run emulation software often but on occasion i'll

00:27:25   have a reason to bust out an old video game from my childhood and i cannot tell you how delightful

00:27:31   it is to use like open emu on the mac and run mega man 2 which decalin was i don't remember oh no

00:27:38   decalin was playing smash brothers that's what it was my nine-year-old son was playing smash

00:27:42   brothers and was asking about who mega man was and i was like oh buddy buckle up so he can talk

00:27:47   about this and so we ran upstairs to uh to my mac and i opened up mega man 2 which i spent just hours

00:27:54   upon when i was roughly his age just hours and hours and hours on mega man 2 and being able to

00:27:59   run old software in an emulator like that is so delightful particularly when you have a controller

00:28:03   like i have the uh the 8-bit do 8-bit do i forget how you pronounce anyways the the one the sn30

00:28:09   pro that looks like a super nintendo controller and i have that and i hooked it up to my mac and

00:28:13   it was delightful even though this is an nes game still having a super nintendo controller was great

00:28:17   it's so much better than using a keyboard and being able to do that on my phone or even perhaps

00:28:22   more so my ipad which although i guess the alternative stores are not coming to ipad is

00:28:27   that right well i mean they're also not coming to you well yeah fair yeah that's that's a very good

00:28:33   point but in principle uh just being able to hook a controller up to my phone you know because delta

00:28:38   allows this like to take that jump that's one of the things that delta would allow you to do

00:28:42   and being able to play like an old nes or super nintendo game on my phone like i don't think i

00:28:46   would have the occasion to do it often but being able to do it would be super cool this hardware

00:28:50   is so good like why wouldn't you want to or at least be able to do that if you saw it it would

00:28:55   be very fun great news for you casey list because yes it might not just be delta is the way to do

00:29:01   this so apple is does publish yet another update to the app store guidelines one of them being

00:29:07   that apple now allows for emulators for quote retro game consoles in the app store

00:29:14   noting that quote you are responsible for all such software offered in your app including ensuring

00:29:21   that such software complies with these guidelines and all applicable laws this is a worldwide

00:29:28   immediate change that allows for emulators yeah so in theory i mean i haven't seen uh riley talk

00:29:37   about this yet but in theory i don't see any reason why you couldn't have delta on the regular

00:29:43   traditional worldwide app store right or am i missing something yeah in in theory unless riley

00:29:48   is doing things with delta that would otherwise be outside of what's allowed right so like he may be

00:29:56   as you can see using apis that might not otherwise be available to a developer but in theory now

00:30:06   we will start to see emulators appear on the app store um and there's going to be a lot of them

00:30:14   and i'm really interested to see how this works because if you say this is an emulator

00:30:23   from the nintendo game boy will apple allow that like you're not providing the rums

00:30:30   so like i'm really keen to see how this is going to go because like what is a retro game console

00:30:36   like that's not defined yeah is the nintendo switch retro depends on who you ask is the 3ds

00:30:46   retro like how far back are we going yeah and who's deciding the intellectual property

00:30:53   lore of this fascinating but i look forward to playing pokemon i guess or something like

00:31:01   i'll have any opportunity to play pokemon on my iphone this is incredible and i think you're right

00:31:07   that the the ownership side of the software is where this will get very very interesting both in

00:31:13   the good and not so good ways so to back up you made mention a minute ago of roms so the way this

00:31:18   works for emulators is they typically do not provide any games to play they the emulator is

00:31:24   the software that allows you to play a game but you need to bring the game yourself and so you

00:31:29   need to you know take a game cartridge and use a piece of hardware to download all of the bits on

00:31:36   that game cartridge and that's the rom the read-only memory from the cartridge and then you

00:31:40   put that in a file and you upload that file to your computer or to your phone or what have you

00:31:44   and then you can play the game i have a thing for the game boy that can do this exactly and as with

00:31:49   all things you know there are alternative approaches which we do not condone here at upgrade but

00:31:53   nevertheless that's the question is like you know what is apple going to allow for this you know

00:31:58   how is a how is riley a delta supposed to verify effectively that you have the cartridge for the

00:32:06   rom that you're providing is that riley's responsibility you know apple don't care not

00:32:12   don't care but like they're they're just going to be like oh that's your responsibility so basically

00:32:17   oh yeah no i mean basically what this is is like they've just like i think i've seen a lot of

00:32:23   people say this i think it's true it's like i guess maybe they're fearful of the competition

00:32:29   here or something like i i guess right so like they figure that something like delta is enough

00:32:36   for people in europe to want to install alt store oh heck yeah put it on the app allow these on the

00:32:41   app store and then people will get them from the app store but it's for me i see this as a you know

00:32:47   they wrote it in there it's in the yo you said that you will comply with laws so when nintendo

00:32:52   comes to us we're just going to send them directly to you like that's the way this is going to go

00:32:56   so it's going to be fascinating to see how this plays out i have yet to find an emulator in the

00:33:04   app store it is a bit soon um but i am really keen to see who's first and how does this shake out a

00:33:12   part of me is surprised that somebody like riley who granted is very busy right now but somebody

00:33:17   wasn't waiting on the wings like ready to submit to there's no way anybody thought this was gonna

00:33:22   happen well but that's exactly what i was gonna say is that on the one side like how could you

00:33:25   not be ready for this but on the other side you know there are there are hotter places in the

00:33:30   world that would have frozen over before i would have expected this to happen right like i didn't

00:33:34   think in a million years this would happen and i i think this is absolutely indication that what the

00:33:40   eu is doing it looks like it's working because i think you're right i think at least some of this

00:33:45   is trying to get ahead of alt store and trying to make sure that apple's users don't have any

00:33:50   particular justification for looking outside the app store and hey turns out it sounds like a lot

00:33:55   of people would love to run old games on their phones so maybe we should allow for that imagine

00:34:01   that apple what a just fascinating it is a hard thing to allow though like it is a it's not even

00:34:06   really a legal gray area in some instances like it's a legal gray area or many but in some it's

00:34:12   just like no you just this is bad because like where did i draw the line like we just had all

00:34:16   this stuff with uh nintendo killing the user emulator which was for the switch which i think

00:34:23   is a bit aggressive uh and i i'm not surprised and i don't really personally i don't really have

00:34:29   a problem with nintendo going after that one but when you go back to something like the game boy

00:34:35   it's like all right like you know you're not gonna lose out on money here like make the games

00:34:40   available like you can do your thing so i don't know uh they also made a change in europe that

00:34:46   music streaming services can have a buy button to sign up for the service it takes you to a web page

00:34:51   to learn more and sign up what a novel concept what imagine that imagine just in europe this

00:34:58   one though because we all know that non-europeans cannot deal with buy buttons in their applications

00:35:02   yep we are too stupid mike we cannot handle it i'm so thankful i'm so thankful that i am not lost on

00:35:09   when i'm using the spotify app it's just if this i don't want to go off i don't want to pop off like

00:35:14   i've been doing so often on atp about how ridiculous and entitled apple is and so i will

00:35:19   just say that i am glad that there's at least some amount of forward progress even if it seems to be

00:35:24   by by way of the prod rather than you know the cattle prod rather than the the carrot if you

00:35:28   will i think i'm mixing metaphors here but um it turns out like i said a minute ago it looks like

00:35:32   this has worked like the system is working they are forcing apple to make changes that they

00:35:37   wouldn't or didn't appear to be willing to make otherwise and you know what i am here for it yep

00:35:44   it's time for a rumor roundup yeehaw nine to five mac has found evidence in ipad os 17.5 in the beta

00:35:52   that the next apple pencil may feature a squeeze gesture this is a quote from nine to five mac

00:35:57   the gesture can be used for quick interactions such as adding shapes signatures stickers or

00:36:02   a text field presumably the gesture will be triggered by pressing the apple pencil surface

00:36:07   that's very interesting i don't i don't know how i would feel about a squeeze gesture i'm sure once

00:36:12   i tried it i'd be like oh yes of course oh yeah yeah that's pro right yes yeah it's that oh yeah

00:36:18   i guess that's fair point yeah but i just use that for playpond i mean what would i i don't know well

00:36:22   i mean just read but you're not drawing of your air pods but you know i could imagine there'd be

00:36:26   an application and you'd set it and it's like some i don't know some frequent thing that you're doing

00:36:32   inside of said application like it could be undo and procreate or change into you know between two

00:36:39   tools or something like that i would prefer button a button and squeezing but we'll see and we may be

00:36:45   seeing soon because mark well not as soon as we thought though mark german is reporting now that

00:36:50   the new ipads are due to be announced on may 6th which is a month away from now which is kind of

00:36:55   funny because we've been expecting these new ipads for at least a month uh something got lost a year

00:37:01   well i mean we've wanted them for that amount of time sure yeah it's just like a funny scenario

00:37:07   that we've ended up in where we were all convinced that these ipads were coming out in early march

00:37:11   and they're actually now looking like they will arrive in early may yeah and i thought i'd read

00:37:17   somewhere i don't know if we'll be able to put a link in the show notes or not but i feel like

00:37:20   i read somewhere that they were having really bad yield problems with the oled displays or something

00:37:24   along those lines since that might have something to do with it marcus also said that there are

00:37:28   software issues so it's a bit it's a kind of six of one half thousand of the other with right

00:37:34   right stuff but yes this is coming out later than expected but you know as people say kc it's not

00:37:40   delayed if they haven't announced it that's true that is true mark german is also reporting that

00:37:45   apple is now exploring home robotics now that the car project is over in the search for the next big

00:37:53   thing this is what they're going to start pursuing i'm going to read some quotes this is this piece

00:37:58   is just like full of interesting quotes so i'm just going to read them out we can talk about it

00:38:01   engineers at apple have been exploring a mobile robot that can follow users around their homes

00:38:07   the original concept for the robot was the device that could navigate entirely on its own about human

00:38:11   intervention and serve as a video conferencing tool one pie in the sky idea was having it to

00:38:17   be able to handle chores like cleaning dishes in a sink but that would require overcoming

00:38:22   extraordinarily difficult engineering challenges something that's unlikely this decade apple has

00:38:28   developed an advanced tabletop home device that uses robotics to move a display around this idea

00:38:34   was to have the display mimic the head movements of a call such as nodding of a person on a facetime

00:38:40   session it's it would also feature the it also have features to precisely lock onto a single

00:38:46   person among a crowd during a video call the robotics work is happening within apple's hardware

00:38:52   engineering division and it's ai and machine learning group run by jean gianandrea matt

00:38:57   costello and brian lynch two executives focused on home products have overseen the hardware

00:39:01   development this is interesting i on the surface it makes sense kind of because you know in this

00:39:08   world with the car you need to have incredible spatial awareness and in a house you would also

00:39:13   need some good spatial awareness but it is a pretty big leap from one to the other i'm not

00:39:18   sure they're really related and just in the sense of like they were working on a car now they've

00:39:23   given up on that and now they're working on something else fair and the other thing is like

00:39:28   what would i want a house robot to do with by following me around like the only thing i can

00:39:34   think of is remember and i think you used one of these at wool once i thought it was you that was

00:39:38   there we had a call using one that's what i'm talking about i forget the term the the telepresence

00:39:43   robot there you go that's the that's the generics uh the generic term but yeah it's these robots you

00:39:48   could you know wander around a office building or what have you and they basically have like an ipad

00:39:52   or equivalent on on the at about eye level actually and so you could sort of kind of carry

00:39:57   on a conversation with a co-worker even though the co-worker is hundreds of miles away or whatever

00:40:02   and that was neat and i saw a handful of offices try it and it seemed like none of them stuck with

00:40:08   it and i don't know if that's because the thing was never charged or because it was too difficult

00:40:12   to use or latency was too bad or whatever but i don't i can't think of any reason why i would

00:40:16   want a robot following me around the house you know it's not like that and i've just talked about

00:40:20   this in atp and i forget the name of it but there's those robots that will follow you around

00:40:23   in a city and they're like a backpack but you don't carry it it's just this little like segue

00:40:27   style thing that's following a you know a meter or two behind you and that in principle actually

00:40:33   sounds pretty appealing but that's when you're out of the house and it's also like seven thousand

00:40:37   dollars or something like that so look you know think about what they're saying would be the pie

00:40:41   in the sky wouldn't you love something to do house chores for you i mean i suppose yeah imagine a

00:40:46   roomba but that can do everything right but it's too big this is too big of a thing to even consider

00:40:52   which i think they're getting at right like this is a and i think people can take some of these

00:40:57   reports as being like a gospel thing but no like there was an idea that somebody had of like the

00:41:03   real goal for a project like this is create a multi-purpose home robot but they know they're

00:41:10   not going to be able to do that for a very long time if ever yeah but inside of this piece is the

00:41:16   real thing that they seem to be working on i hope that they're working on which is a tabletop home

00:41:21   device that can move a display around like this is the advanced echo show like device from apple

00:41:28   the home pod with a screen which apparently this product is quote much further along but there is

00:41:33   disagreement inside of the company of wherever it's something people would want something i would want

00:41:38   as an we have an echo show in the house and i don't like it but my wife does but it's nice to

00:41:43   have a screen in the house where it's showing photos from a photo library but we can also talk

00:41:49   to it you can you know when you're cooking you can see the timers on it you can interact with

00:41:54   like amazon's made a great business of this i would love apple to do one of these and if it

00:41:58   could do things like i could have a facetime call with someone and it will follow me around and all

00:42:03   that kind of stuff it sounds fantastic but i also would love apple to build me a robot that could do

00:42:09   all of my chores but i i genuinely i'm not sure if we'll see that in my lifetime yeah agreed and

00:42:16   with regard to the echo show style thing that's not something i feel like i want in my life but i

00:42:20   but let me you know hedge by saying i've never had an echo show or anything equivalent so it may be

00:42:26   one of those things that once i had it in my life i'd go oh yes of course um but you know the closest

00:42:31   i can think of is having a larger screen for facetime purposes and just uh recently we

00:42:37   facetime with my mom and dad when they were at their house and you know we were at ours of course

00:42:42   and i just stuck my phone on the mantle below the tv and it was fine like it really wasn't bad the

00:42:47   audio allegedly on their end wasn't bad because that's the thing i worry about our family room

00:42:52   is very very wide and not very deep so we're physically relatively close to the tv which helps

00:42:57   a lot for the purposes of audio but when you do a facetime call with an apple tv the audio is the

00:43:01   camera microphone on your phone right and so sometimes in a in a room that's deeper and not as

00:43:06   wide you can sound like you're 400 miles away from the microphone because you kind of are luckily our

00:43:12   house is laid out in such a way that that's not really a problem uh but that sort of thing is

00:43:16   where i feel like we're missing something in our you know the list family is missing something is

00:43:19   having the ability to do a group facetime call on a big screen and what with continuity camera and

00:43:24   in the the apple tv support and more recent versions of the apple tv os then that seems

00:43:31   to be fixed for us so i don't personally have a need for this but again i can't stress enough

00:43:37   that it might be one of those things that i get it in the house and i'm like oh yes of course how

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00:45:52   show and relay fm so a couple of days ago uh i incessantly bullied you into getting onto a

00:46:04   facetime call with me that is both accurate and inaccurate but it is probably more accurate than

00:46:08   i care to admit to myself yes because uh spatial personas have launched so this is an an advanced

00:46:15   persona feature for facetime calls with the vision pro so previously you would have a call with

00:46:20   somebody and they would be trapped inside of a little box but at wwdc when they showed off the

00:46:26   vision pro initially they gave a tease for the next evolution of personas where people would be

00:46:32   essentially like floating heads and hands inside of inside of your space with you but that apple

00:46:39   touted at the time that it was a much more immersive experience now you were going to be my

00:46:43   co-host on the show today i wanted to talk about it and i wanted you to come onto the show having

00:46:46   had this experience and i wanted you to have this experience with me and so by this point i had had

00:46:52   a call with a couple of friends solo and then also a group hangout session this was your first

00:46:59   experience with spatial personas what did you think so the thing with the vision pro is that

00:47:08   there's so much potential there and it's so obvious that the technology is just phenomenal

00:47:14   it's big it's clunky it's heavy but it's still it's there it's there much more so than you would

00:47:18   expect but it's hard to convince yourself of that sometimes even even as someone who can spend as

00:47:23   much time as i want with the vision pro because you know so there's so few examples of it being

00:47:29   there and the immersive video we were talking about earlier is a great example this gucci thing

00:47:34   is silly as it makes it may sound i think that's an example and i've done a facetime call or two

00:47:39   with the vision pro previously and it was fine and after you know five or ten minutes you can kind of

00:47:44   get over the fact that you're looking at a cartoon version of your friend or whatever but it was fine

00:47:48   the spatial personas are a whole different thing and it is a great example of what makes the vision

00:47:55   pro so freaking cool and what makes you feel like yep we're there this is it it's not the future

00:48:02   it's not the future in the future it's the future today and it was bananas it's incredible i did this

00:48:10   in my office in the same room i'm sitting in right now i did this without any air pods in or anything

00:48:14   like that i was just using the audio pods whatever they call the thing you know the stems on the

00:48:18   vision pro and the the way that it felt like you were around me was phenomenal because if you were

00:48:27   off to my left you sounded like and looked like you were off to my left if you're off to my right

00:48:31   and you sounded like and looked like you were off to my right and what really blew my mind which is

00:48:36   funny because i think at this point i had heard connected if i'm not mistaken and so i was aware

00:48:41   of most of these things and so i knew what to expect and yet you know we were sitting or we were

00:48:47   i guess we were adjacent to each other i forget exactly what the scenario was one way or another

00:48:50   i was looking at you even if i don't remember if i was looking at you head on or if you were off to

00:48:54   my side but one way or another you said okay i'm gonna stand up now and sure enough when you stood

00:48:59   up your head went from eye level to a couple of feet above me which is what would happen if we

00:49:06   were sitting next to each other yeah and also it creates a shared physical space so i can walk

00:49:10   around you yeah yeah i mean your space and i'm moving around so like and there are things that

00:49:17   you can do which are wild like you can have somebody follow your finger with their eyes and

00:49:21   you can watch them do that like the latency and the realness of this is it's honestly like a

00:49:30   technological marvel here's the thing if you've seen pictures of this and i'll put links in the

00:49:35   show notes to jason's article about this and steven's article about this which has a bunch

00:49:38   of pictures of these calls that i was on too they look ridiculous right it is a floating head

00:49:44   floating hands it looks ridiculous but it doesn't feel like that when you're in it there is something

00:49:49   about just the head and the hands and the shoulders but when they're moving and they're

00:49:53   talking and you can see someone promoting it is just the amount that you need for your brain to

00:49:59   be tricked that you're in the room with the person it's like just enough and you know you've heard

00:50:03   of these kinds of things before like the bare minimum that your brain needs to be able to make

00:50:09   these kinds of jumps like these leaps this 100% does it it's the most immersive vr call i've ever

00:50:16   experienced and i've tried a bunch of these things because not only does it work really well i'm

00:50:22   looking at the person i'm talking to and it looks like them a lot like them because the new personas

00:50:27   got even better like truly it looks weird trust me i know it looks weird but if you experience it

00:50:36   it is like um it's unbelievably good like it's unbelievably good and it pulls in so many different

00:50:43   technologies spatial audio is key as casey was talking about if i stand up i'm high in my you

00:50:49   know i'm i'm he can here i'm above him if i move around him he can experience that share play

00:50:55   you can share windows content all this kind of stuff together like i did this with you we

00:51:00   shared a freeform board i could get up and walk towards the board and point to things on the board

00:51:05   like a presentation obviously you could do keynote and stuff in this and then there are also like i

00:51:10   think the best way to experience this well actually before you jump to that though hold on the the the

00:51:16   the uh freeform thing blew my mind because again i had heard connected i knew what to expect but yet

00:51:23   you shared a freeform board potentially even the same one you shared with them and you and what we

00:51:28   went from looking at each other sitting you know one facing the other to now we are adjacent to

00:51:34   each other one on either side of the board which is what you would expect to happen if you were in

00:51:38   a space with a whiteboard right and you can like you just said you can point to something and i can

00:51:43   point to something we can tell what the other is doing like i know mike just said that but i really

00:51:48   need to hammer that home because it you would expect there to be like inaccuracies or horrible

00:51:53   latency or something but no no it was spot on i forget exactly what was on the board you know

00:51:58   i was i said something like okay point to the red rectangle and sure enough you pointed to it and

00:52:03   you know and i said okay what am i pointing at and you said oh you're pointing to the same red

00:52:06   rectangle the other side of it yep yes i am like it was it's so silly to be so impressed by this if

00:52:12   you think about it like and if you look at these pictures like mike had been saying it's like okay

00:52:15   this looks super weird why are you so excited no i can't even begin to describe it is just

00:52:21   stupefying the difference that all of this makes especially in aggregate like it's clear that your

00:52:28   mike wasn't physically standing next to me like that's obviously not the case but it tickled all

00:52:34   of the same kinds of emotions you know what i mean like it it felt effectively like you were and it

00:52:40   was almost as satisfying as us having a brainstorming session i mean even though it was all

00:52:44   you know contrived but it was almost as satisfying as us having a brainstorming session in a room

00:52:48   together and given that you're what like three thousand two thousand miles away from me this is

00:52:52   a lot easier and cheaper to do with it meeting up somewhere to do it in person like last week i felt

00:52:58   like i was able to hang out with a bunch of my friends over these different calls it was a very

00:53:04   enriching experience for me because it was able to tickle a lot of those sensations that you get

00:53:14   for having spent time with people because you're talking to them you feel like you're in a place

00:53:20   with them you very quickly ignore the weird part of it and accept it for what it is or think it's

00:53:27   more than what it is you're able to look into the eyes of your friends as they're talking to you

00:53:32   and like you're actually looking into their eyes and they're looking into your eyes the amount of

00:53:37   work that must have gone into this i cannot fathom like i genuinely think like if you have a friend

00:53:44   that has a vision pro and you've been on the fence or whatever this is a reason to buy one if you can

00:53:48   if you want to have these experiences together because so one of the things that we did was we

00:53:53   played a game called game room which i think is the perfect demo for this oh it's it's phenomenal it

00:53:58   i cannot stress enough you must try this they have a version of they have a bunch of different games

00:54:04   inside a game room one of them is essentially battleship and the two of us were able to play

00:54:10   a game about ship it's a very well done application just in general like the animations are fantastic

00:54:16   it's it's very well designed fast and fun but like you're able to play actual games together like i

00:54:22   really really hope that more games do this it's all built on shareplay so it's just a shareplay

00:54:28   game um i'm hoping that more of this kind of stuff exists because i i want to create like hangouts

00:54:37   for friends like the the the group call that i did it was basically just there was an active

00:54:43   facetime calling kind of inside of a group chat so people were able to drop in and drop out

00:54:47   because that's how face time group chats work that's so there were at one point there was three

00:54:53   of us then there was four of us then there was five of us and you know people were dropping in

00:54:57   and dropping out like yep so you could imagine like uh just a friend hangout session and you know

00:55:03   you can hang out you can chat but having activities like shared activities to do and games being one

00:55:09   of them like man this is what i was saying earlier on in the show like it is way too soon to be like

00:55:17   oh this platform's dead it's not going anywhere like there's no developers for it da da da da da

00:55:23   obviously i was listening to atp last week and i would say the three of you to to an element were

00:55:30   like you know talking about the death of the platform already and but it's not just you guys

00:55:37   like i'm hearing it all over the place i'm seeing it on mastadon like it's too soon i would love to

00:55:42   know how we would deal with the iphone now that's interesting yeah yeah if the iphone was now

00:55:52   what would we be saying like we're in the first year of the iphone and there's no apps for it

00:55:57   right like what would what would the conversations be like i just think that like if you see things

00:56:03   like this like the spatial persona stuff to say that they are not putting effort into this

00:56:09   platform like i can't even imagine how hard this was to build like this is clearly what they wanted

00:56:16   it to launch with right but couldn't get it ready in time because there's no reason that you would do

00:56:21   the first version of this right like if you had the second version ready like it was very clear

00:56:27   now that this first version is just the they did it until they could stop to finish yeah a stop gap

00:56:33   and like it's it's truly mind-blowing it's i hate to use this word but it's true it's a transformative

00:56:40   experience of using technology like this because you know i'm hearing time and time and time again

00:56:46   from you and from everybody else like the vision pro is a uh anti-social product right like you

00:56:53   can't use it with people around you and i'm not saying that this changes that but it makes it

00:56:58   social in a different way yeah i was just about to say it's differently social and you're exactly

00:57:03   right in the same way that i mean your iphone and your ipad is an anti-social device too

00:57:07   but we say it's a social device because you can talk to your friends who are across the ocean

00:57:13   right so like oh it's additive to my life because i'm connected to people this is an even stronger

00:57:18   connection so it's just you know like i've heard i was listening to atp this morning so it's fresh

00:57:26   in my mind and you were talking about the fact of how like you wouldn't sit on the couch next to

00:57:29   aaron um you know you would wear one of these and she's watching avatar on the tv and you're watching

00:57:35   it yeah right right you also wouldn't watch avatar on your phone while she's watching it on

00:57:39   the tv that's fair that is fair yeah people are i think a lot of time at creating these scenarios

00:57:44   that sound ridiculous because they are ridiculous like you wouldn't do that you also wouldn't have

00:57:49   four people wearing or wearing one in the same way that like you wouldn't have four people all

00:57:54   looking at an ipad like these devices will fit into our lives in different ways for some people

00:58:00   they won't fit into their lives at all and that's totally fine right like there's going to be a

00:58:05   balance here for what this kind of technology can provide and what it can't but this is like oh

00:58:12   here's here's the thing you can't do the only way you can do this is a vision pro you cannot have

00:58:18   this experience with any other apple product because a facetime that ain't it son like this is

00:58:26   so much better than a facetime call so much better than a facetime call for so many reasons

00:58:33   as long as your mouth moves of course mine does well that was that was very off-putting because

00:58:37   it's still quite fixed uh you're mad i'll get there i'm sure if they look if they can work

00:58:41   this out they can get the mouth movement issue with mustaches fixed but the only obvious answer

00:58:46   is you just need to trim your beard and mustache back a lot that's the that's the one true way

00:58:51   i'm not doing that for like you know what i mean of like if that's their answer then then they're

00:58:56   then i'll say the platform is dead you know what i mean yeah no it's your criticisms of atp i think

00:59:02   are fair and it's funny what a difference just a few days makes because i i to a degree i stand by

00:59:09   what i was saying on hb and i would think of the three of us i was far and away the most positive

00:59:12   but i was still kind of poo-pooing the whole thing and it's funny because at the time i was thinking

00:59:17   all right well they haven't come up like apple hasn't come out with any of the new immersive

00:59:20   videos yet i didn't realize that the um the dinosaur thing was forthcoming yeah but still

00:59:26   it's one episode it's not like that's still not good enough like not even close and the soccer

00:59:30   thing as has been talked about ad nauseam was not great by any means and i'm looking at this and i'm

00:59:36   like well what's what's the point like i still like it but i think i said on the show were it

00:59:41   not for professional obligations i think i wouldn't have bought it and i don't think i would have

00:59:45   missed it well fast forward what is this like five days later six days later and i've experienced uh

00:59:50   spatial personas in in facetime i've experienced collaborating not necessarily in a professional

00:59:56   sense but even like in a gaming sense collaborating on something i've experienced this gucci app which

01:00:01   is silly as it is really is mind-blowing like it's such a clever way of approaching this this

01:00:07   not problem but you know this task of presenting a documentary in an interesting way like in just

01:00:13   in the past less than a week i feel like the stock of the vision pro is going quite a bit up in my

01:00:19   mind because i'm starting to be to see new and interesting ways to use it and this comes back

01:00:24   to what you've been saying this entire episode well more than this episode but especially this

01:00:27   episode it is too darn soon to throw this thing out it is too darn soon to say it's a dead platform

01:00:33   walking because it isn't we haven't had the time for people to really start flexing their muscles

01:00:38   and being creative and seeing what they can do and we're getting bits and pieces of it here and like

01:00:43   i i am looking forward to having the time to put on the vision pro and doing the what is the name

01:00:50   of the app game room the game room app which i don't know if you said this out loud but it's in

01:00:53   apple arcade so if you're an apple one or whatever it's called member uh you get this quote unquote

01:00:58   for free i can't wait to try it again and i showed i recorded a little bit of video of the two of us

01:01:05   playing and i showed the family and everyone was looking at this and even though they don't really

01:01:11   know what like they've had the vision pro on but they they didn't experience playing the game and

01:01:15   all of them were still like oh that's real cool you know like and of course deklyn my nine-year-old

01:01:20   was like oh i want to try that as soon as i can and and he hasn't had the chance yet but you know

01:01:24   it's it's so immediately captivating and another thing i don't think you mentioned this yet but

01:01:29   another thing you did and i didn't even realize you could do this is you can share your perspective

01:01:33   oh yeah and so um i had seen many many many photos of mega office but i have never been to mega

01:01:40   office i've never been sorry thank you my apologies mega studio and so i'd never been there and that's

01:01:47   why i didn't know the right name of it but anyway i i you know mike said to me it's at some point

01:01:51   all right hold on a minute watch this and now i'm getting a 3d view of mega studio which was amazing

01:01:56   and i mean again i've seen photos so i could i kind of had a layout in my mind of what it looked like

01:02:02   but in the span of like you doing one 360 degree spin well now i know exactly what mega studio

01:02:07   looks like you know what i mean and and similarly like i mean my office is a disaster despite what

01:02:11   hopefully it looks like on the video but you know i took you on a quick spin around my office which

01:02:15   is not exciting at all but nevertheless at least now you get to have a mental model for where it is

01:02:20   i'm sitting right now talking to you and like stuff like that is super cool and if memory serves that

01:02:25   was in 3d like it was immersed well it wasn't immersive i don't think it was in 3d no it's just

01:02:29   like is it not okay you just get to see kind of like a video feed i was so bowled over by it i may

01:02:36   as well have been 3d you're probably right it probably wasn't but it felt like it at the time

01:02:41   and so it's it's it's incredibly incredibly cool what they've done with with just facetime broadly

01:02:47   because this you know seeing what mike's seeing doesn't really have anything to do with spatial

01:02:51   personas that's just i guess share play if nothing else but my goodness was it cool and it enables

01:02:57   you to kind of have a presence somewhere else and you know 3d or 2d one way or another it it was so

01:03:03   immersive in the figurative sense because i couldn't you know change where i was looking

01:03:07   or anything because i'm just getting the view from mike's you know headset but it still felt so

01:03:12   you know lowercase i immersive if you will that that it felt like i was there and it was unreal

01:03:19   like this this is phenomenal and if you're in a position like let's say you were you know having

01:03:25   have a long distance relationship or something like that oh my god fathom oh my god yeah are

01:03:30   you kidding like it would it would it would be this alone just facetime spatial personas alone

01:03:37   if you have the money one thousand percent worth the seven thousand dollars you know for each of

01:03:41   you to get one get the crappiest vision pro you can which is not still extremely expensive but

01:03:46   like look here's the thing none of this is is is achievable right now but this is like you know

01:03:52   i mean like what we're talking about you know if you're in a long distance relationship do you have

01:03:58   seven thousand dollars to spend like it's that is ridiculous to say yeah but in four years time

01:04:06   in five years time where i genuinely think that in five years time we will have like full bodies

01:04:11   because they'll be able to just work out even if they can't scan it so you would have a full body

01:04:16   in it or like much more of a body maybe at least the top half right because they can just

01:04:20   work it out i mean this is kind of what meta does right then they're looking at where your

01:04:24   hands are and then assuming the way the rest of your body moves it's all machine learning

01:04:29   models at the end of the day but like if this thing is fifteen hundred dollars then you could

01:04:33   each have one i mean yeah then then we're off to the races because it's the beginning now this

01:04:39   product has been available for three months and look at the progress we've made in three months

01:04:45   yeah no it's it's unreal i it's the thing that bothers me about all this the thing that i'm so

01:04:52   frustrated by with regard to all this is that i don't have the vocabulary or the the the the

01:04:58   way with words to appropriately verbalize what this feels like and i think you and i have done

01:05:04   as best a job as we possibly can but it's one of those you really just do need to experience it and

01:05:09   like i said i cannot stress enough i know i've said it like two or three times but i heard

01:05:12   connected i saw the photos in these blog posts i knew what to expect and still my mind was blown

01:05:21   when mike and i got on this got on this facetime call together it's unbelievable and it's again one

01:05:26   of those things where the sum is greater than the whole or the the greater the the sum is greater

01:05:31   than the parts are great some are greater than the parts the sum of the parts is greater than the

01:05:35   whole who knows yeah yeah yeah you know that's what they say but you know what i mean like it's

01:05:43   like the spatial persona was super cool the freeform thing super cool the game room thing

01:05:48   super cool yeah but all together like all of this was mind-blowing i put it together what have you

01:05:54   got bibbidi-bobbidi-boo you know what i'm saying you know what i'm saying when i quote mary poppins

01:06:00   oh i do you know that's not very problems is it that's uh cinderella isn't it yeah it doesn't

01:06:05   matter when i quote mary poppins quoting cinderella as she does in the movie and everyone remembers it

01:06:10   exactly right that's like the michael scott thing right like wednesday the gwen greske coat and

01:06:16   then michael scott underneath that's me right now i know what you're thinking of yeah yeah no it's

01:06:20   it's really incredible if you have it if you're lucky enough to have a vision pro you must find

01:06:23   someone to do this with you you and i should like do cameo style things where we'll schedule 10

01:06:28   minutes doing this with people who don't have any other vision pro friends well we can make

01:06:33   that sounds that sounds like a september fundraising activity if i've ever heard one

01:06:37   i could be convinced i'm just saying i could be convinced all right stop me before this gets even

01:06:42   worse what is something else we can talk about this episode is brought to you by fitbud when you

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01:08:46   our thanks to fitbud for their support of this show and relay fm so last time you were on the show

01:08:52   which was episode 448 which was back in february of 2023 it's been about a year and a bit i created

01:09:01   a new segment called the casey list vibe check and i would like to to reinstate the segment today so

01:09:08   this may become a thing that you just do every time you're on the show with me because jason is

01:09:12   clearly now willing to take weeks off which it only took us nine years before he was willing to

01:09:18   do it and a celestial event in this case yeah well last time he went to new zealand and i was like

01:09:23   this is untenable just take some time off so what we're going to do is i have 10 words or phrases

01:09:30   you don't know what they are i'm going to say these to you you give me the first word or small

01:09:36   phrase that comes into your head and then we may go back and dig into some of these that are

01:09:43   particularly interesting to me so i have my list here and i want you to tell me what you think all

01:09:48   right okay are you ready now i did not go back and listen to the last one because it occurred to me

01:09:53   you might repeat some and i don't want to like in my cell and so i i was planning to go back and

01:09:59   listen just remind myself how this went and i remember being a little dodgy on my part so i

01:10:03   wanted to re-listen but then i decided no we're just going to roll with it we're going to see what

01:10:07   happens because i don't want to like you know taint my opinions here so i have no idea what's

01:10:12   coming because we i do have a couple of repeat vibes to check all right first one ai everywhere

01:10:20   oh okay okay doj uh failing wow okay that's not what i thought dma

01:10:30   a lot it's a lot alternative app marketplaces uh non-starter oled ipad pro neat m3 ultra

01:10:48   uh i am excited and also desperately do not want it to happen wwdc24

01:10:57   i think that's my answer okay that's not what i need for now vision or less uh i want to see

01:11:06   what's coming apple tv plus uh impressive actually and mac pro uh please no all right obviously the

01:11:18   mac pro we all know uh you're a co-host especially john we'll talk about it forever um it you know

01:11:24   again it's always funny to me to try it's always funny to me first to remember that he's still

01:11:29   using that mac pro i know i know and then for what what's it gonna take you know like that's that's

01:11:36   the way it's like a funny thing for me to think about um so digging into a couple of these so ai

01:11:41   is actually the one that i was most interested in to see where where you're at do you use any ai

01:11:46   tools it's one of those things where it's it's not um how can i phrase this i i need ai to figure out

01:11:55   what i need to verbalize this so i don't ever immediately jump to ai it's like oh i'm having a

01:12:01   something i need done well ai will fix it i i'm not at that point by any means oftentimes though

01:12:07   especially you know when it comes to code related things i'll flail around for how to do something

01:12:13   and realize i just can't figure this out quickly and i've gotten better over the last year or so

01:12:18   since you know chat gpt has really hit i've gotten better at thinking to myself oh you know what

01:12:24   i wonder if i could ask chat gpt this and i bet i will either get a good answer or an answer that

01:12:29   will you know push me in the right direction and i've gotten better and better at that but it's

01:12:34   still not the sort of thing where i i have to get there by desperation if that makes sense like

01:12:40   i i would not choose to start there but i oftentimes will end there because to chat

01:12:45   chat gpt's credit oftentimes it does get me across the finish line one way or another either by way

01:12:49   of inspiration or by an actual solution so i am using it some so you're using actual chat gpt for

01:12:55   the code questions you know using something specific to code correct that's correct do you

01:12:59   have you ever tried the github stuff or microsoft no i know i know of what you speak but i haven't

01:13:04   tried any of it now so you would just go to chat gpt i assume the free version that's right and

01:13:10   describe my issue and say you know how do you fix it and do you find it gives you good answers

01:13:16   uh in on some occasions it will give me literally the answer you know there was a there was an

01:13:21   instance where i wanted to create an enumeration which is basically like you know you have a bunch

01:13:27   of different options in code and and you will only ever be one of them um and so i wanted to create

01:13:34   an enumeration based off of some other piece of data so i had a list of like 20 or 30 things and

01:13:39   i wanted a code enumeration based off of those 20 different things i could do this by hand it's not

01:13:44   conceptually difficult to do it's just a pain right it's a bunch of rote work and so i said

01:13:49   to chat gpt hey i have this i think it was a json object i have this json object and i would like

01:13:54   um i would like an enum an enumeration based on this can you do that for me and i think i had to

01:14:00   phrase it differently one or two or three times but then once i got it phrased appropriately it

01:14:05   was good to go and so i saved myself a whole bunch of time not just you know mashing on the

01:14:09   keyboard doing the same thing over and over again by spending two minutes in chat gpt and so that

01:14:14   that's a great example of it on occasion if i have a weird ffmpeg incantation where i'm trying to

01:14:17   convert a video from one format to another i'll turn to chat gpt to do it so yeah it's definitely

01:14:22   given me reasonable answers occasionally you know completely on its own without me having to like

01:14:27   you know triple check or anything like that okay i i mean i have two main uses at the moment um

01:14:34   one is to help me rewrite stuff uh and i use a combo depending on the tool that i'm in if i'm

01:14:40   in notion i use notions ai to do it if i'm uh doing something that i'm just putting into a

01:14:46   random text box sometimes i'll just use chat gpt um but my the thing i'm most excited about right

01:14:51   now is the service called perplexity and i've not heard of this it's a service where like they

01:14:57   combine a bunch of different models together and have their own stuff that you sprinkle on top

01:15:01   i'm using it in replacement of trying to do 50 google searches to get an answer for something

01:15:10   so that's what it's really good at so we're going to disneyland paris later on this year

01:15:16   and we're trying to find some restaurants to book now as a disneyland fan or disney wild fan sorry

01:15:24   thank you thank you you know the issue of trying to search for anything disney related it is just

01:15:30   seo garbage website off the seo garbage website right and what i like about these tools is they

01:15:38   will just read every website and find the things that correlate between them to give you the answers

01:15:44   you're looking for like for searches like this it's like so good at wrangling in the seo destroyed

01:15:50   web of course the problem is these tools will also create more of this job garbage content but i'm

01:15:57   trying to live in that perfect moment where i can get the answers that i want without you know stuff

01:16:03   happening also like also with comics like a similar thing i'm trying to pick up some like i've

01:16:08   basically read all of the spider-man comics i could possibly read or would want to read and so

01:16:12   i want to turn my attention to some different titles like i want to maybe read some daredevil

01:16:17   comics or some x-men comics and i ask it like give me some suggestions and i i went with these tools

01:16:24   like to try and get the most out of them i'll always give their pro versions a try at least for

01:16:28   a month and with perplexity's pro version it asks you questions about your question

01:16:34   so like they understand the question it's like do you want good stories for an origin story

01:16:42   do you want good stories that are short do you want good stories that are a long period of time

01:16:47   that have some classic moments in and then i can select just tap which ones i want then it goes out

01:16:52   creates a list for me then you can also collect up your answers into these little collections like

01:16:57   i'm a bit i'm pretty high on this this service right now because i just like it like it kind

01:17:01   of sounds like i'm doing an ad for them like i actually think i would like them to sponsor the

01:17:05   show now um so perplexity if you're out there just you know send me an email but yeah it's a service

01:17:11   that i really like so it's just a treat um why do you think alternative app marketplaces are a non-starter

01:17:18   it's too much work and nobody's going i mean not literally nobody of course there are people who

01:17:22   will care but i think it's as much work as you think it is i i mean i think it was it's a lot of

01:17:28   work for the developers yes that's true that is not what i was referring to for the record

01:17:33   yes i was referring to what you think you just go to a website tap a button tap install like it's

01:17:37   it's not that wild if i recall correctly the verge said you needed to like go to the website and then

01:17:42   you needed to like effectively introduce your phone to the fact that this marketplace exists

01:17:46   then you need to go into like settings and say to your phone yes i'm aware it exists yes i would like

01:17:50   to use it then you got to go back to the website then you got to install the app marketplace and

01:17:53   all this jazz and like it's not it's not an obscene amount of work but i think it's enough

01:17:59   that until we get something oh yeah you're right i was what i was thinking of is how easy it is

01:18:04   to install apps from the app marketplaces yes to actually install the marketplace itself you have

01:18:09   to like jump through a bunch of hoops which i would be surprised if all those hoops will still

01:18:13   exist in a year from now that's also very very fair that is a very good point but sitting here

01:18:17   today as what we know now i just don't think your average person is going to jump through these hoops

01:18:22   and like there needs to be some justification for it um as an example when the iphone first came out

01:18:29   i remember there was an app and i can't remember the name of the app it was like i tether or

01:18:34   something like that i forget exactly what it was but basically what it allowed you to do was tether

01:18:39   to your phone and i forget if it was like a socks proxy or something like that or if it just enabled

01:18:43   something in ios or at that point iphone os but one way or another it was a way to let your your

01:18:49   phone tether even if your carrier didn't give you permission to do so and it required a jailbreak

01:18:54   and i remember i desperately wanted to be able to tether and i don't remember the the reason why and

01:19:00   i ended up only doing it a handful of times but i jail broke my phone in no small part it was like

01:19:04   this and whatever it was where you could drag down from the top of the screen there were a bunch of

01:19:07   widgets do you remember that do you know what i'm thinking of there was like you know like wi-fi on

01:19:11   and off and like volume and all that and those two things were enough to make me jump through all the

01:19:16   hoops of jailbreaking now i'm not trying to say that jailbreaking is the same as an alternative

01:19:20   app marketplace but it's spiritually yeah no it is it absolutely is but it's spiritually in the

01:19:25   same direction and so i don't i i can see the argument that it is for a particular type of

01:19:30   person and that particular type of person is likely to jump through those hoops the thing that

01:19:35   i wonder about is like is there a breakout app that can exist that we're saying the same thing

01:19:40   that's exactly it is that you know it is delta enough and maybe maybe delta is full it's all

01:19:45   take or fortnight is actually that's an even that's a much much better example is fortnight

01:19:50   enough and if and that i could absolutely see well what we know today where fortnight isn't

01:19:57   yet in an alternative app store they've said it will be but it hasn't yet knowing what we know

01:20:01   today i stand by it's a non-starter but i 100 agree there can and honestly likely will be some

01:20:08   sort of app that pushes people over the edge to deal with jumping through all these hoops

01:20:12   i feel like i understand i know the obvious but wwdc24 makes you groan

01:20:17   mostly because i'm just sad that i'm missing out again or at least sitting here now that's

01:20:23   the expectation you have yet to receive a developer pass well i i have officially been

01:20:29   denied a developer pass have you been what they said no yeah yeah yeah they went out uh right

01:20:34   before we recorded uh atp last week so it was thursday i i know they send an email if you get

01:20:39   in i didn't know if they sent an email to yes did not get in yeah i i mean i can dig it up if you

01:20:44   give me a minute but it's nice to say they're like hey we're sorry in the past they have sent these

01:20:47   out like they've sent out some afterwards but i don't know if they're like yeah that and i think

01:20:53   that is possible and you know there it is plausible that i would get a press pass but certainly you

01:20:58   know the history indicates that that is unlikely there was one year i want to say it was 22 maybe

01:21:04   it was 21 but i think it was 22 um there was one year i was off your press pass but it was before

01:21:08   mikaela was my youngest kid was vaccinated and i didn't want to mess with traveling across the

01:21:12   country it was 22 it was when like we all found out like two days before or something it wasn't

01:21:17   that right but it was like we weren't even it was there was going to be a developer event and then

01:21:21   all of a sudden it got bigger um and a bunch of people were invited yeah and so i did get a an

01:21:27   invite then which i declined when it absolutely murdered me to do so but i stand by it and so i

01:21:33   never no other time ever ever ever ever ever since i'd been going to wwdc in 2011 which admittedly

01:21:38   was before anyone knew who the heck i was i've never been offered a press pass to it i don't

01:21:42   expect to this year but i i would love to be able to go at some point to see apple park to see it

01:21:48   what it's like at apple park etc etc but yeah i mean i'm not i'm i've not been offered and that

01:21:54   was my initial gut reaction is to be selfish to be honest with you but more broadly if i'm allowed a

01:21:58   second uh a second opinion on it i am excited for it actually i'm excited for all of this you know

01:22:04   ai stuff there's enough smoke around here that there's got to be a fire i'm excited to see what

01:22:08   ai really means in apple's context i'm super excited to see what vision os 2.0 looks like

01:22:14   uh because you know at this point we have a point we don't have we need at least one more point to

01:22:18   make a line and i really want to see where this this inevitable line is going to be reaching for

01:22:25   i'm trying not to use the word point again so in what direction is this line going yeah i'm pretty

01:22:30   excited for for wwbc the potential of it this year like yeah in for these reasons of like is vision

01:22:36   os 2 going to be exciting or is it going to be disappointing like i hope it's going to be

01:22:40   but obviously the star of the show this year i thought it might originally i thought the star

01:22:46   of the show would be vision os 2 but that was before uh ai reared its head and apple was talking

01:22:52   about it and saying they have stuff coming and you know we obviously have heard things now we've seen

01:22:57   reports and so it's intriguing to wonder what it's going to look like um and is it going to be

01:23:05   like a whole new way of thinking about using our iphones like potentially or at least will

01:23:13   developers have brand new tools to create new experiences they couldn't before so i'm i'm

01:23:18   pretty excited for wwbc but you know similar to you i i don't i'm pretty sure i'm not going to be

01:23:24   attending this year and i've got some stuff going on in the summer and i don't think i'm going to be

01:23:28   able to make it work so that will be a shame but i'm excited about the announcements that could come

01:23:34   yeah before we move on from wbc very briefly i've been thinking this is not an original thought of

01:23:40   mine in fact i think around the same time i had this epiphany i want to say it was on mac stories

01:23:45   that uh john or federico was talking about it but i really am getting the vibe based on zero facts

01:23:52   just the vibe that we're going to see some sort of visual refresh for ios this year and it's going to

01:23:57   look very similar to vision os and i have no facts to back this up maybe i just get this vibe that

01:24:03   that's going to happen and i'm very curious to see if we do get some sort of visual refresh on the

01:24:07   ios side how does that make you feel as an app developer as a developer i am not looking forward

01:24:13   to it is it made easier by the fact that you use swift ui i think it is and because you'll get some

01:24:19   stuff for free in theory in theory especially since i generally stick pretty close to the way

01:24:25   things look stock i mean obviously i tweak here and there but i'm generally i don't go too off the

01:24:30   wall with it i think what makes me dread it even less though is having gone through the vision

01:24:35   vision os native port because it's not very hard at all to get an ipad app to work in vision os in

01:24:40   fact it's pretty darn straightforward but to to take a an app that has an ipad version but make a

01:24:47   native vision os version you can flip that switch reasonably easily and just comment out a bunch of

01:24:54   stuff that doesn't that isn't applicable in vision os as an example like you can't change the icon

01:24:58   right now of a vision os app and so you just got to comment all that out but in order to make a

01:25:03   vision os app that feels good on the platform which i like to think the call sheet does a

01:25:07   pretty good job of that's a fair bit of work and it took me a long time to really understand what

01:25:12   work needed to go where now that i've been through it though i feel better about it and so i don't

01:25:17   i'm not nearly as miserable as i would be if i'd never done that effort but uh as a developer i'm

01:25:22   kind of about it but as a user i like the look of vision of vision os i think it looks good i think

01:25:27   it looks modern i like that there's affordances for buttons even if it takes you you know looking

01:25:31   at them first but at least there's affordances you know so i like it from a user perspective

01:25:35   i think it would be kind of nice but from a developer perspective why don't you want the

01:25:39   m3 ultra is that like for yourself or just to exist because that means mac pro in theory

01:25:46   max studio it will also go in the studio no no it's it's that was again me being completely selfish

01:25:52   about mac pro related discussions because my co-hosts on atp especially john as you mentioned

01:25:56   are obsessed with mac pro are very disappointed in the current mac pro and so the m3 ultra is to

01:26:02   me i associate that almost exclusively with the mac pro even though you are 100 correct and it's

01:26:07   really more about the max studio i would argue more about the studio but but to me it's a lot

01:26:13   about the mac pro like if they had something above ultra like maybe that like because there was the

01:26:17   rumors of the extreme the extreme for a while like that that might be a mac pro only thing but i would

01:26:23   be really surprised if they made anything just for the mac pro because like that thing is hanging on

01:26:29   by a tether like it really is but i mean that being said the m3 ultra is interesting and

01:26:33   especially since it seems like all of the m3 uh generation chips they they appear to all be bespoke

01:26:40   rather than kind of different cuts both in a literal and figurative sense of other chips in

01:26:44   the lineup you know the m1 and the m2 it seemed like they had a building block and they just

01:26:48   combined it or you know or doubled it in different and interesting ways whereas what we've seen of

01:26:54   the m3 dies is that they're more you know bespoke and each m3 is is just tweaked a little bit to be

01:27:01   that one and only one thing honestly i think the apple silicon story so far especially when it

01:27:07   comes to the mac we have been wrong in assuming that it was going to form a pattern yeah that's

01:27:14   true i mean it did for the first two years but then now we've gone way off it well i would i

01:27:18   don't know if it did like they were doing weird things and like the we're assuming a certain type

01:27:22   of power gain and it wasn't necessarily there like i and again like one is not a pattern right

01:27:30   yeah yeah so i don't know i'm i'm intrigued about it because that's the computer i want next is an

01:27:38   ah ultra max studio which i'm sure will be incredible and in that sense i very much want

01:27:43   this to happen i would love to see what this looks like and so in that sense unselfishly

01:27:48   so here for it but selfishly i really don't want to hear the boys whining about it for a while

01:27:53   yeah i i just you know i'm using an m1 max macbook pro as the machine that i do my recording on and

01:28:02   stuff and really for me with the the reason i want to get the the studio and i want it with an m3 i

01:28:09   don't even think ultra like an m3 pro would would would be fine for me yeah i want inbuilt io

01:28:17   and i want something that will last me 10 years yeah you know in theory 10 years right like it

01:28:22   doesn't go to but like i want a bit of headroom which is much more achievable for me now

01:28:28   considering what i'm doing on this machine but yeah i've i've really gotten i think

01:28:32   the most out of this mac pro and i could keep running it for longer but i really don't like

01:28:38   having to use a dock for the important io and i just aren't enough ports on this machine yeah

01:28:46   it's funny you know i oftentimes will bring the computer to different parts of the house

01:28:51   i'm running an m3 max macbook pro i had an m1 max macbook pro before i probably shouldn't have

01:28:55   upgraded but i couldn't resist and i'm glad i did but i probably didn't need to nevertheless uh it

01:29:01   is not unusual particularly when doing development work so i have a phone plugged in i might have an

01:29:05   external display plugged in or perhaps i have uh the vision pro plugged in i can quickly run out

01:29:11   of my three usb ports that's not even counting power you know i've got magsafe for power

01:29:16   i i don't think the machine has too few ports but i would not complain if it had a couple more

01:29:23   last one i wanted to start on with you unless there was any that you wanted specifically to

01:29:28   give more context on was apple tv plus you said impressive yeah i didn't expect much of

01:29:34   apple tv plus when it was originally announced especially since you know early on all we really

01:29:38   knew of apple's entertainment stuff was like behind the app or whatever it was and that like

01:29:44   in the carpool karaoke and there were like a couple of things early on that were just not good

01:29:50   but then you know ted lasso drops and what was that 2020 and ever since then i feel like i have

01:29:57   had many different people both in and out of nerd circles recommend to me a smattering of different

01:30:03   apple tv plus shows and we have not watched all of them and we're not caught up on a couple of them

01:30:08   but any that we've spent the time to try i don't think there's been a one that we've been like

01:30:13   eh like we've loved uh or maybe loved a strong but we've we really liked the morning show we

01:30:18   haven't seen the most recent season we've loved for all mankind that's the best recent season

01:30:23   i mean for all mankind is really that's that show my opinion um shrinking is phenomenal

01:30:29   i'll wait for the last so it's phenomenal um uh what's the one that with ben stiller directed

01:30:34   i'm drawing a blank thank you severance we all of i think those are the only slow horses we

01:30:40   haven't watched that one oh okay so you will love slow horses i know the kinds of books that you

01:30:45   like right and like i know that we both like jack ryan like you like those kinds of like spy and

01:30:50   that kind of stuff yes but i think we talked about this on analog several months ago now but i read

01:30:54   the first slow horses book and i thought it was fine forget it forget it forget it i bet you i

01:30:59   would enjoy the tv show quite a bit more gary oldman less work is just incredible in the show

01:31:06   and i love gary oldman in general so we just watched the steve martin documentary

01:31:10   oh yeah how was that really good really good it's three hours it's split into two parts it's kind of

01:31:17   like looking at back at his career and then looking at where he is now which is really great and we

01:31:24   just started watching palm royale i've heard of this but i know nothing of it it's really nice

01:31:31   like it's not setting the world on fire but i think it is a visual treat and like it's it's

01:31:37   quite an interesting story we're about maybe a third or halfway through i would recommend

01:31:43   checking it out like that this got a fantastic cast at least ricky martin's in it which is oh

01:31:51   wow no that's cool rich is amazing god damn does he look incredible my god he spends a lot of time

01:31:56   to be shot off and oh boy ricky martin he's like 55 years old isn't he i need caution but uh

01:32:03   whatever the case maybe no that's not at all surprising there's a lot of either makeup or like

01:32:08   smoothing with cgi and some of these characters in this but like nevertheless he looks incredible uh

01:32:13   he looks incredible that's very cool but yeah that's that's really fun yeah i agree i mean the

01:32:17   thing that i worry about about tv plus is the viewership is is very low it's very low it's a bit

01:32:24   it's got starting to become a bit of a joke in hollywood for that like people want to keep bringing

01:32:29   shows to them because apple pays a lot and they pay up front which is not normal and they are

01:32:34   allowing people to take swings and take risks and you know as well like it seems that if you do a

01:32:39   project with them they will keep working with you on new projects like it seems to be like they're

01:32:44   building good relationships but the viewership is is very low compared to the other streamers i'm

01:32:50   surprised i totally believe you i am not at all trying to argue with you but i'm surprised that

01:32:53   that's the case because again i've had so many people reach out and say oh severance is so good

01:32:59   oh shrinking is amazing i mean of course no but this is regular this is regular people too it's

01:33:04   not just nerds i hear what you're saying and you're not wrong they have the occasional

01:33:08   breakout right like ted lasso so basically a lot of this stuff is the neilson ratings right

01:33:14   and the neilson ratings are really low but ted lasso they made it into the top 10 but it's like

01:33:18   the only time they've done that so like they have the opportunity to do it but the general like

01:33:22   people are not watching content on these on their platform and part of it might be is that they don't

01:33:28   have a lot of content right so maybe when it looks like how much time are people spending on any

01:33:33   streaming platform apples might be lowest because they don't have 10 seasons of the office to watch

01:33:40   but they are low and you know again all we have is that data because no one will ever tell you

01:33:46   anything right but they're having successes for sure i just hope that they're willing to stick

01:33:52   with it in the long term there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to though because they have

01:33:58   the money right but it is i find it a shame that that more people don't watch a lot of their stuff

01:34:03   which is like genuinely you know in the last five years the majority of my favorite new tv shows are

01:34:09   coming from apple tv plus yeah which is incredible and so i i like i said it's impressive i really do

01:34:15   think it's impressive thank you for allowing me to check your vibes of course my vibes may always be

01:34:21   checked by you mike i am here for you this episode is brought to you by vitally customer success

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01:35:44   of this show and relay fm let's finish out today with some ask upgrade questions are you familiar

01:35:51   with this segment we have listeners write in with questions and then we answer them we call it ask

01:35:57   upgrade are you familiar with this kc i am i dropped the ball on the lasers at first my apologies i

01:36:02   completely forgot for a second good laser work good laser work that's right lucky writes in and says

01:36:07   how much storage did you both get in your vision pro and how much are you using right now do you

01:36:12   think base model storage is enough to get by don't worry about the number it's not important

01:36:16   i was gonna say i'm not sure how much i'm using because the answer is like it for me i got the

01:36:22   512 right the middle one the amount that i'm using is just the amount that apps take up

01:36:27   i'm storing no content on this device this was just a question at first of like will i store

01:36:34   anything will i have download anything on here like i wasn't sure um and so like that's kind

01:36:40   of my answer right now i would say you don't need to do any other tier the reason i got the middle

01:36:47   tier is i don't know what's coming right and that was kind of how i felt at the time and 256

01:36:53   gigabytes wasn't a lot really and so i thought well let me get 512 because let's say for example if

01:36:58   i'm traveling and i download a bunch of movies like they're big files and we don't know how long

01:37:03   this device is around for right like if this hardware is around for four years things might

01:37:07   really change and so that's that's very fair yeah i got the 256 i wanted to get in and out as cheaply

01:37:12   as i could which still was not cheap i was like in for a pound pound pound in front of a pound

01:37:17   it's fair and i i wish i had had the chance to um to check but uh i know that i got the 256 and to

01:37:27   your point the only real data i have on it is downloaded movies and the only reason i did that

01:37:32   was for train travel actually leaving when i visited you in new york um and i'm planning to

01:37:38   probably be using it on a plane uh later this month for reasons and and so i've downloaded

01:37:43   some movies on there but other than that i have no data on there and i feel like sitting here today

01:37:48   256 um is probably enough billy asks how many domain names do you own i looked i did look

01:37:59   earlier today to verify this and i have 11 only 11 okay so so billy's question is i hear mike

01:38:04   specifically mentioned very specific dot coms for his shows including upgrade and i'm curious you

01:38:10   have 11 do you have any that are like interesting outliers like do you have any domain names for

01:38:15   things that are like interesting names that you just got them for do you only have them for like

01:38:20   specific things no i don't think i have any like goofy ones like i know on bonanza may it rest in

01:38:26   peace that that was the you know the the case study and goofy names for things um i have uh a domain

01:38:34   for mikayla's name which is you know parked effectively i have a couple different variants

01:38:39   of app related domain names i just recently registered a domain name that i might use in the

01:38:44   future to represent services that are running out of the house so this may or may not ever be used

01:38:50   publicly but i wanted an actual domain name for it what do you mean what does that mean services so

01:38:55   like i have i have some things some like uh web-based things that that are served on my

01:39:01   synology here at home you can't have a podcast with me without talking about the technology

01:39:04   and so they're based out of the house and whether or not they're publicly accessible via the internet

01:39:09   publicly reachable via the internet the internet i might still want to have a domain name that will

01:39:14   respond with a like locally with an ip address that's only available locally and so i just in

01:39:19   the other just the other day registered that i do have lists dot family which i believe just

01:39:23   redirects to my website oh and i have a i have a deckland's name as well but by and large it's

01:39:29   nothing that interesting i guess the most kind of clever thing that i have is accidental.tech

01:39:33   which i thought was kind of fun um which i believe just redirects to atp.fm but yeah there's nothing

01:39:38   that exciting here there's 11. i have across two hover accounts uh i have 86 domain names

01:39:47   holy jamolys yeah it's a bit of a problem i i turn a bunch of them off every now and then so they

01:39:53   don't renew um but i i have like a large variety of domain names which are some of them they needed

01:40:02   some of them i have them but they're not needed some of them are like things i might use in the

01:40:07   future and some of them are just fun things that i like to have so like a bunch of them are jokes

01:40:12   like 123 membership.com which i think goes to connected membership i have filofeedback.com i

01:40:19   don't know where that goes um i think it is to our feet i think it might be going to the feedback

01:40:23   form for upgrade but these are jokes i make like there was one time where i made a joke about you

01:40:29   could spell get more text.com however you want oh i remember this that was a mistake that that is uh

01:40:36   11 of my domain names is that especially because it was made into an animation so they're now on

01:40:43   youtube forever um i have a couple of interesting ones i have paidcasts.com interesting okay like

01:40:51   podcast but the word paid that was just like an idea that i had sometimes i have like words or

01:40:57   phrases that pop up and i'm like is that available and it is and i'm like i'll take that and so

01:41:01   i have a few of those uh what else i'm looking if i have anything else in here that's interesting

01:41:09   uh hackitnumber.com what was that i remember that being a thing what was that about it's

01:41:16   it's i don't remember now it's something related to the amount of computers you have represented

01:41:24   in oh yes based on a singular state of stephen's collection so you can calculate your own hackit

01:41:31   number based on that right right right right there's a similar thing in the relay discord

01:41:36   called the hurley number which is about your keyboard collection based on a constant state

01:41:40   of my keyboard collection at one point yeah i have a lot of domain names um it seems so

01:41:46   merely eight times what i have yeah your annual bills i know it's probably it's horrible of the

01:41:53   entire it's really bad that's especially because there is a certain time of the year when most of

01:41:57   them renew which is like in the summer is when all of the membership domains renew indeed which

01:42:02   includes all of those more text ones um and now i have like ones that were like for an episode once

01:42:08   like we did ask upgrade out loud.com where we had listeners submit video like audio of them

01:42:15   asking their ask up good questions we should do that again at some point because i have this

01:42:19   domain name that's true you might as well justify it might as well just it all of the max.com i

01:42:24   don't even know what that is i some of them is like i know these are like ref there's a jokes

01:42:28   for something but who could even tell what they are i also have uh so obviously my product the

01:42:33   sidekick notepad people think i say psychic notepad i was one of my own psychic notepad.com

01:42:39   for this reason you've got to prepare yourself that's very good i have a casey list question

01:42:45   for you right here it comes from mark mark wants to know how much extra would you be willing to pay

01:42:53   for a cellular mac so i'm thinking of the option how much would you be willing to pay to add on top

01:43:01   of the price of a mac laptop for it to have cellular connectivity all right hold on i gotta

01:43:06   log into my bank to see how much free money i have really because it is all of it how much more like

01:43:11   what is what is a like realistic surcharge that you'd be willing to have i think 200 or less i'm

01:43:20   not even blinking an eye i think all right 500 i'm starting to think is it really worth it i want

01:43:27   this so badly and for those that are that are really into tethering this probably sounds nuts

01:43:33   and for those that don't ever work outside of like a building this sounds bananas and to be fair

01:43:39   since covet has been settled down i'm not going to sit here and try to say it's gone away but since

01:43:44   it's settled down i will go into the library i will go into uh wegmans you know the local

01:43:48   grocer that has a really nice cafe area with tables and whatnot um and so i don't necessarily

01:43:54   need this as much as i did during covet times where i would only want to go outdoors to a

01:43:58   park bench don't call it a picnic table or to you know somewhere else but nevertheless like

01:44:03   if i'm a passenger in a car particularly like on a long car ride i'm likely to want to get a little

01:44:10   bit of work done and it would be phenomenal to just open the lid on my mac and effectively

01:44:16   instantly have an internet connection i would pay i would genuinely pay at least a couple hundred

01:44:21   dollars and i think around the 500 mark is where i would probably go maybe tethering is the right

01:44:26   answer you know what i mean like i would pay literally hundreds of dollars to have this option

01:44:30   and it would probably completely neuter my battery you know dramatically affect my battery life don't

01:44:37   care uh it's it's worth it especially with the apple silicon when you have all that extra battery

01:44:42   life anyway i i want this so badly i i would do almost anything for it i want it give it to me

01:44:48   please yeah i find tethering just like not in that like automatic tether tethering not to be

01:44:57   a very good experience i actually i wouldn't say i'm a unicorn but it works for me more often than

01:45:03   it doesn't but it doesn't work enough that it isn't annoying does that make sense you know

01:45:07   it's still just annoying enough that i absolutely want for this and plus the other thing with

01:45:11   tethering is now instead of destroying one battery you're now destroying two batteries you're

01:45:16   destroying the battery of the device you're using the battery of the device that you're tethering to

01:45:20   and and i just don't like it i just don't dig that and so yeah i would absolutely without a shadow of

01:45:25   doubt i would love for this to be an option maybe one day you'll get exactly what you want you'll

01:45:33   get your tethering mac i'm not convinced that they will ever do it at this point i don't think they

01:45:38   will i think we're more likely to get a touchscreen mac than we are a mac with cellular built-in but

01:45:43   for me i would vastly prefer a cellular enabled mac over a touchscreen mac i would like to provide

01:45:50   some really important real-time follow-up that's just been sent to me to wrap up today's episode

01:45:54   jason snell was on good morning america this morning what are you serious yeah um it's like

01:46:00   a random passerby or is like no featured he uh is to do with the eclipse and so jason was part of a

01:46:10   video package i think he called in from an airport about what to expect for a solar eclipse i think

01:46:16   it was like a pre-recorded thing i put a link in the show notes uh it's called what to expect for

01:46:23   a total solar eclipse uh and jason features in this video around the two minute and 50 second mark

01:46:32   and so he's calling in talking about his eclipse experiences uh how did this happen it's jason

01:46:38   snell what is happening i know how this happened i will allow for jason to tell that story of course

01:46:44   to tell that story yeah yeah definitely but oh my good gracious that's incredible so that that is

01:46:49   so funny if you if people want to want to watch jason and good morning america clearly he's

01:46:54   upgraded uh from this show right i'd say so interested in this show anymore he just wants to be

01:47:00   on morning shows instead he's like upgrade no way put me on gma only and that's where he is in his

01:47:07   life you know gma today gma today that's incredible that's i think that's where dma today comes from

01:47:13   it's one of those things i don't remember which one it was usa no it's usa today it's this yeah

01:47:18   yes the newspaper wow that's bananas i can't believe that that's so cool if you would like

01:47:24   to send in a question for jason and i to answer on next week's episode or you have any feedback

01:47:29   we don't know i mean who knows yes maybe national sensation he's just a correspondent now jason's

01:47:34   been discovered but if he is back you can send your questions in upgrade feedback.com thank you

01:47:40   to casey for filling in for jason this week if you want to find casey's work online go to caseylist.com

01:47:46   you should check out his app call sheet in the app store and you can hear casey's podcasts atp

01:47:52   and also analog which is on relay fm with me so if you enjoy the two of us together you can listen

01:47:57   to a show that's us every month just talking really it's just talking about our lives it's

01:48:01   just where casey and i get together we talk about what's going on our lives if you care about us

01:48:05   you'll probably enjoy that show you can listen to my shows like analog on relay fm you can check out

01:48:10   my work at cortexbrand.com you can find us online casey is at casey list c a s e y l i s s that's

01:48:18   casey list i am at my mic i m y k e you can watch video of this show which this week includes

01:48:24   caseyless over on tiktok instagram and youtube where we are at upgrade relay thank you to our

01:48:30   members who support us of upgrade plus go to getupgradeplus.com to sign up thank you to our

01:48:35   sponsors vitally fitbod adblock pro and delete me we'll be back next time casey thank you for joining

01:48:42   me say goodbye caseyless thank you so much i really appreciate you having me goodbye everybody