496: I Tried to Put My Finger in Myke's Mouth


00:00:00   (orchestral music)

00:00:02   Hello and welcome to Connected episode 496.

00:00:11   It's made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:15   NetSuite and Squarespace.

00:00:17   My name is Steven Hackett,

00:00:18   and I have the pleasure of being joined by Mr. Mike Hurley.

00:00:21   Well, hello there.

00:00:22   Hello.

00:00:24   And I have the pleasure of being joined

00:00:25   by Federico Vittucci.

00:00:26   Ciao Federico. Buonasera.

00:00:28   Hi, ciao.

00:00:28   Buonasera Federico.

00:00:30   Ciao, ciao, ciao.

00:00:31   We're back.

00:00:34   We're back, but you know what's not back?

00:00:36   iPads. iPads.

00:00:36   They're not back.

00:00:37   No, no. Not happening.

00:00:39   They got canceled, they're not happening.

00:00:41   Yeah, the iPad got canceled, actually.

00:00:43   You wouldn't believe what the iPad did, you know?

00:00:47   Yeah, true being dead moment for the platform.

00:00:49   Yep, we can't.

00:00:50   There's more, another rumor from Mark Gurman,

00:00:53   or updated reporting,

00:00:55   that we're now looking at probably May.

00:00:58   Late April, early May,

00:01:00   so we can get off iPad Watch for a while.

00:01:02   Did you boys, are you boys still waiting for the newsroom?

00:01:05   I'll stop now.

00:01:06   I'm assuming it's not happening.

00:01:07   So you're saying that new iPads may come out.

00:01:10   Hey, there he goes.

00:01:13   There it is.

00:01:14   Automation.

00:01:15   Y'all doing that again, Federico?

00:01:19   No, not this year.

00:01:19   No, they're not skipping it this year.

00:01:21   I listened to an app story, it's just like,

00:01:23   I think it's a silent protest,

00:01:24   or actually not a silent protest,

00:01:26   about the state of shortcuts.

00:01:28   Okay.

00:01:28   Is what I kind of got from app stories.

00:01:30   Yep, pretty much.

00:01:31   Pretty much.

00:01:32   I'm a little behind.

00:01:34   Automation.

00:01:35   Automation.

00:01:37   And then it was auto-genation,

00:01:39   'cause it just kept going.

00:01:40   Yeah, no iPads.

00:01:41   Seems like maybe there's some sort of software and hardware,

00:01:46   like both ganging up on Apple to make this difficult.

00:01:49   I wonder what they've got to do software-wise,

00:01:52   unless there's like,

00:01:53   first it's like, well, what feature would it require?

00:01:55   I thought, well, maybe like keyboard or trackpad stuff.

00:01:57   But then I realized it could be like firmware level stuff

00:02:00   to manage the OLED,

00:02:01   'cause you've got to handle that differently

00:02:03   than the LCD, maybe.

00:02:04   Yeah, 'cause if you remember,

00:02:06   when the iPhone 10 came out,

00:02:08   there were like these stories. Remember.

00:02:10   Remember about how, I think,

00:02:14   they were moving the user interface elements

00:02:17   to stop burning.

00:02:18   Oh yeah, yeah.

00:02:21   So maybe there's stuff like that,

00:02:22   which is just, you know,

00:02:23   these are the kinds of things that you would have to do

00:02:27   to get the operating system ready to handle an OLED screen.

00:02:30   It could be stuff like that,

00:02:31   or it could just be, as you say,

00:02:32   like there's, we know that new accessories

00:02:35   are very likely too.

00:02:37   Maybe they just haven't finished getting all of that ready.

00:02:40   Hmm, maybe.

00:02:42   But also there was just issues

00:02:44   with getting the OLED panels to a consistent quality level.

00:02:48   Yeah.

00:02:49   The iPhone 10 is further in the past

00:02:51   than I always think it is.

00:02:53   I still think of it as like the new phone,

00:02:55   and that thing came out in 2016?

00:02:58   17. 17?

00:03:00   Yeah. 2017.

00:03:01   Now we're coming up on 10 years since the iPhone 10.

00:03:05   Like it's not super close, but it's not very far away.

00:03:07   Well, it's seven years, so yeah, getting there.

00:03:10   The iPhone 10 is only three years younger than our company.

00:03:14   Think about that.

00:03:15   Okay.

00:03:16   I can't really work that out.

00:03:19   It's a very important metric. Okay, yeah, I see.

00:03:20   I see, I see.

00:03:21   Yeah, yeah.

00:03:22   Relay is further away from the iPhone 10

00:03:24   now than it was when we started.

00:03:26   Yeah, or think about it this way.

00:03:28   The iPhone 10 is as old as the Nintendo Switch.

00:03:31   Ew, gross.

00:03:33   Yeah.

00:03:34   Bad news for the Nintendo Switch.

00:03:36   Well, or bad news for Apple

00:03:38   because Nintendo didn't need to do anything until now,

00:03:40   and they have sold a bajillion of them

00:03:43   and made all the money they could possibly want to make.

00:03:46   So on last week's episode,

00:03:47   I was talking about mirroring with the Vision Pro,

00:03:50   and I was saying that I couldn't get it

00:03:52   to work on my iPad mini.

00:03:54   I think, Steven, you said that they used it in store,

00:03:57   and you were right.

00:03:58   That is what they used in store.

00:03:59   They used the iPad mini.

00:04:01   So the iPad mini does work.

00:04:02   It just wasn't working for me.

00:04:04   And our friend Casey Liss sent in a screenshot

00:04:07   on Masterland.

00:04:08   Basically, there are some settings

00:04:09   that I might want to enable

00:04:13   for why it might not be working, but yeah.

00:04:15   So mirroring from a Vision Pro to an iPad mini does work.

00:04:20   It just wasn't working for me.

00:04:21   Okay, there you go.

00:04:23   You have to make it an AirPlay target, I guess.

00:04:27   Yeah, exactly.

00:04:28   I mean, I feel like I haven't not made it that.

00:04:31   You know what I mean?

00:04:32   It's surprising to me that that doesn't just work

00:04:36   'cause I haven't done anything to anything else,

00:04:37   but it's possible that something

00:04:39   has been set incorrectly on the device.

00:04:41   You gotta throw it in the river and start over.

00:04:44   Oh, I mean, maybe.

00:04:47   Federico, you are in the EU.

00:04:51   Yes.

00:04:52   What about Alt Store?

00:04:54   So there's a story on the verge today.

00:04:56   They got an exclusive hands-on

00:04:58   with the third-party app marketplace version of Alt Store,

00:05:03   which is the popular sort of sideloading, quote-unquote,

00:05:07   store that has long been available on iOS and iPadOS

00:05:11   through the sort of non-jailbreak method.

00:05:14   And they're launching in the EU

00:05:16   a native app marketplace for the iPhone.

00:05:19   And the story has a lot of details

00:05:22   about the installation process, what it looks like,

00:05:24   all the permission prompts that you're gonna get,

00:05:27   and sort of some of the apps that,

00:05:29   well, actually two of the apps

00:05:30   that are being notarized by Apple right now in Alt Store.

00:05:34   Delta, which is the Nintendo emulator

00:05:36   that the Alt Store folks have been developing

00:05:38   for quite some time, and Clip,

00:05:40   which is a clipboard manager

00:05:42   that can monitor your clipboard in the background

00:05:45   using a bunch of native APIs,

00:05:46   but in a way that wouldn't get approved on the App Store,

00:05:50   but can be released in theory on a third-party marketplace.

00:05:54   But so go check out that story

00:05:56   if you wanna see the screenshots,

00:05:57   what it looks like in practice.

00:05:59   And I think there's some interesting details

00:06:01   that Alt Store is working on right now.

00:06:03   For example, Clip, sort of as a way to work around

00:06:08   the core technology fee, for example,

00:06:11   they're gonna integrate with Patreon.

00:06:13   So you need to be a Patreon subscriber

00:06:16   to Alt Store if you wanna get some of these apps,

00:06:19   and supposedly that subscription will also cover

00:06:21   for the cost of the CTF.

00:06:23   So a bunch of interesting ideas.

00:06:25   - One of the ways that Patreon helps here

00:06:27   is you can cap it, right?

00:06:30   So you can cap it to a million patrons

00:06:33   or whatever it would be,

00:06:35   and that way you don't hit that level, if that's the case.

00:06:40   Or, but also, you can use this model

00:06:45   as a way to make sure you have enough money

00:06:47   and you can charge people once a year, da, da, da, da.

00:06:48   But yes, there are other ways that people can make money

00:06:52   on the App Store, and this is, well,

00:06:55   through apps and Patreon is a very valid way, right,

00:06:57   of doing that.

00:06:58   So it's cool that they're integrating that.

00:07:01   - Yeah.

00:07:01   So I linked to the story, but also in a footnote,

00:07:05   I mentioned sort of the weird experience

00:07:07   that I'm having right now.

00:07:08   So I live in the EU, obviously.

00:07:11   I have an Italian iPhone, I have an Italian iCal account,

00:07:14   but as you guys know, I have a US App Store account

00:07:19   that I set up in 2007, 2008 or something,

00:07:23   and I've been using forever,

00:07:24   and that was back in the day it was possible.

00:07:27   If you didn't have a debit card or a credit card in the US,

00:07:30   you could just create a US App Store account for free.

00:07:32   There was a method that allowed you to do that on iTunes

00:07:35   without having to provide any other details.

00:07:38   And I've been hanging on to that App Store account forever.

00:07:42   Now, I cannot access any of the DMA EU features at all.

00:07:47   That was the case with 17.4.

00:07:52   I put the beta of iOS 17.5 on my phone last night,

00:07:56   and I still don't have access to any of the EU stuff.

00:08:00   I was never shown the browser selection screen,

00:08:04   and Riley Testa, one of the founders of AltStore,

00:08:07   tried to send me a beta of AltStore

00:08:10   that I could install on my phone,

00:08:12   and after I manually synced using Finder,

00:08:16   the AltStore app to my phone,

00:08:19   when I tried to open it on my iPhone,

00:08:22   iOS says that this device is not eligible

00:08:25   to install this app.

00:08:26   So I think I must be living in some kind of weird edge case

00:08:31   where what I'm doing is not accounted for at the moment.

00:08:36   I live in the EU, but I have a US App Store account,

00:08:41   and even if I change my region setting to Italy,

00:08:43   it doesn't matter.

00:08:45   As long as I have that US account,

00:08:47   it won't let me access any of the DMA features.

00:08:51   And I suppose that this is because Apple only designed

00:08:56   a way for the other way around,

00:08:58   which is if you are an EU customer and you travel abroad,

00:09:01   you have, I believe, a 30-day grace period

00:09:04   to keep receiving updates and keep installing apps

00:09:09   from third-party marketplaces.

00:09:10   But what about my situation where technically

00:09:15   I have a US App Store account, but I live in the EU,

00:09:20   and it seems like there's no solution right now,

00:09:23   and this is what it is.

00:09:26   I cannot get access to any of those features

00:09:30   as long as I believe, as long as I keep

00:09:32   that US App Store account in my settings.

00:09:35   So kind of a weird situation to be in,

00:09:39   because you could imagine that an American citizen

00:09:42   may want to hold onto their Apple ID

00:09:48   if they move from the US to Europe,

00:09:51   and in theory, they become,

00:09:53   like what if you buy a house in Europe

00:09:55   and you become legally a European citizen,

00:09:57   but because you have the US App Store account,

00:09:59   you cannot get access to any of those features?

00:10:01   It seems like the sort of problem

00:10:03   that Apple will have to fix eventually,

00:10:05   but there's no fix right now.

00:10:07   - I mean, for you to just test this stuff,

00:10:10   could you, do you have like a second iPhone?

00:10:12   - I do, I do, I should try.

00:10:15   - So you could just do it, right?

00:10:16   You could just, I'm sure you have a,

00:10:19   I mean, you just have to sign in with your iCloud account,

00:10:22   which is European, right?

00:10:23   - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:10:25   - So you could try it that way, but I mean,

00:10:28   honestly, it would surprise me if there was ever a solution

00:10:31   for this specific problem,

00:10:33   'cause I think Apple would just say to you,

00:10:35   if you live in Europe, if you want it,

00:10:37   change your Apple ID.

00:10:39   I don't think that that is a,

00:10:42   I'm not saying that that is a good way of dealing with it,

00:10:46   especially for you, but I don't,

00:10:49   I think looking at the way

00:10:50   that they have approached this so far,

00:10:52   I don't think that they're going to care for edge cases,

00:10:56   that they would change, that they would fix them

00:10:58   unless they were legally told they would have to,

00:11:00   and I would also expect that the European Union

00:11:03   aren't gonna fight this specific point,

00:11:05   because it's pretty esoteric, right,

00:11:08   for the majority of instances,

00:11:10   unless there is some other edge case,

00:11:12   like the one that you mentioned about

00:11:14   it restricting the movement of Europeans or something,

00:11:18   I could imagine might be an issue,

00:11:20   but be interesting to see how it unfolds,

00:11:23   especially if more than just app stuff

00:11:27   gets wrapped into this eventually.

00:11:29   Imagine a scenario where there's some kind of

00:11:32   messaging changes that need to happen,

00:11:34   like would that remain the same,

00:11:38   that you would lose access to those features

00:11:40   if you were to travel,

00:11:42   and now you can't do X, Y, and Z on your iPhone

00:11:44   because you're in some kind of weird limbo?

00:11:47   - No, I just think it's kind of weird

00:11:48   that it is tied to the App Store account

00:11:53   rather than the main Apple ID.

00:11:55   I think that's a bit of an odd decision.

00:11:57   - How do you get the stores?

00:12:01   Do you get them from the App Store?

00:12:04   - What do you mean?

00:12:05   - So if you want to download Altstore,

00:12:07   where does it come from?

00:12:09   - In this case, I was sent a .ipa file that I had to--

00:12:13   - I'm expecting that Riley won't do that for everyone, though.

00:12:16   - No, no. - It's hand-delivered.

00:12:18   - I think you will go to a website,

00:12:19   and the website will say,

00:12:20   "Hey, this website wants to install

00:12:22   "a third-party marketplace for you."

00:12:24   - Right.

00:12:25   - That's so weird.

00:12:26   All of this is so new still?

00:12:29   It's like that sentence one year ago

00:12:32   would have sounded bananas, but here we are.

00:12:35   - You know what?

00:12:37   I'm actually gonna try this now.

00:12:38   I think now-- - You should try it.

00:12:40   - Now you've put the doubt in my mind.

00:12:42   - I am convinced it will work when you do that,

00:12:45   'cause you tick all of the other boxes.

00:12:48   - Okay, so I'm gonna do it.

00:12:49   I'm gonna listen to my offline music, but whatever.

00:12:52   I'm gonna do it during the show.

00:12:55   - You might need a reboot or something.

00:12:57   And the reason I feel confident about this,

00:12:59   I'm saying right now,

00:13:00   because it's kind of similar to what I'm doing

00:13:02   with Vision Pro.

00:13:03   I can change in and out.

00:13:04   Today I checked.

00:13:06   Periodically I checked to see if the App Store

00:13:09   is up and running in the UK yet,

00:13:11   'cause that would be an indication

00:13:13   that they're getting ready to ship it,

00:13:14   but it's still not.

00:13:15   I try it every couple of weeks or whatever,

00:13:18   because I would also desperately like to change over,

00:13:20   'cause I'm having to do this weird dance right now,

00:13:22   because I have subscriptions that are renewing,

00:13:25   and I have to keep topping up the gift cards,

00:13:27   and it's a whole thing that I'm finding,

00:13:28   that I would like to get away from that life.

00:13:31   But I had to keep buying things in two places,

00:13:34   stuff like that, which is kind of frustrating.

00:13:37   - And I guess you can't use some of the cool features,

00:13:40   like you get a link to an app on your phone.

00:13:45   It's like, "Oh, download it,

00:13:46   "and it'll be on your Vision Pro next time you put it on.

00:13:48   "I guess that doesn't work for you."

00:13:49   - Yeah, I can't do that.

00:13:49   No, I can't do that.

00:13:50   I have to open it in Safari

00:13:52   and then check my shared Safari tabs, whatever.

00:13:56   - Oh, no.

00:13:56   (laughs)

00:13:57   - And also, we had to talk about this later on,

00:14:00   but we were doing a SharePlay thing earlier,

00:14:01   and Jason was like, "Let's watch for mankind."

00:14:03   And I'm like, "I can't."

00:14:05   'Cause I don't wanna sign up for TV+

00:14:08   as well as music and Apple Arcade.

00:14:09   I don't want another one.

00:14:11   So we couldn't watch it,

00:14:13   because he wanted me to sign up for another subscription.

00:14:16   - Okay, so I have some real-time follow-up.

00:14:18   - Yes.

00:14:19   - I logged in with my Italian App Store account.

00:14:23   I force quit Safari, reopened Safari,

00:14:26   and now I see, "About your default browser."

00:14:29   - There you go.

00:14:30   - I'm seeing the screen.

00:14:31   Opera, gross, is the first choice.

00:14:34   (laughs)

00:14:37   - What are you gonna choose?

00:14:38   - Ooh, Brave.

00:14:40   - So brave.

00:14:42   - No, thank you.

00:14:43   Safari.

00:14:45   - Safari.

00:14:45   - Welcome to the App Store. - Wow, what an ice-chop.

00:14:47   - Whatever.

00:14:48   - This is the problem.

00:14:50   - Opening this app.

00:14:51   This is so weird.

00:14:52   Opening this app, we'll set it as the default browser.

00:14:54   You can always change this later in Settings.

00:14:56   Open.

00:14:57   Okay, so I'm going to set that for Safari.

00:14:58   - He says that for Safari, too, that's funny.

00:15:00   - So what happens if I tap on that weird alt store?

00:15:04   Oh, I got to reinstall it.

00:15:05   So I'll do it, and I'll let you know in a few minutes.

00:15:08   - Okay, excellent.

00:15:09   This is great.

00:15:09   I love this.

00:15:10   This is some real-time follow-up.

00:15:11   - It is, it's good.

00:15:12   I want to talk briefly about a new Apple AI thing.

00:15:17   This has kind of become something

00:15:18   that we are following along on the show.

00:15:21   Apple released information about a Realm reference resolution

00:15:26   as language modeling.

00:15:30   Now, there's an article on VentureBeat about this.

00:15:32   We also have that linked to the PDF in the show notes

00:15:34   if you want to read that.

00:15:36   I will say a better-looking PDF than previous ones,

00:15:39   don't you think?

00:15:40   - Let me take a look.

00:15:41   I haven't looked at the PDF yet.

00:15:42   I just read the VentureBeat article.

00:15:44   It looks like, yeah, there's some better formatting

00:15:46   in this one.

00:15:47   Like, they have images that actually fit

00:15:49   within the columns this time,

00:15:50   rather than just being like random all over the place.

00:15:52   - The large language model is listening to connected

00:15:55   and implementing changes.

00:15:57   In a nutshell, what this model aims to do

00:16:01   is to understand context and reference

00:16:06   based on what a user is seeing on their screen.

00:16:09   So it can view what's on your computer, iPad, iPhone,

00:16:14   whatever, I guess.

00:16:18   And then that lets the user ask it questions

00:16:22   based on what the user is seeing.

00:16:25   Some of the examples in the PDF

00:16:27   are pretty straightforward.

00:16:29   Like, I'm looking at a website and I say,

00:16:30   "Hey, call this restaurant,"

00:16:32   and it finds the phone number in the footer

00:16:35   of the restaurant website,

00:16:36   and it could make that phone call for you.

00:16:39   That, I think, is pretty clever.

00:16:41   Like, assistants should know what's going on on your device.

00:16:45   I think there's also a huge accessibility story here

00:16:48   where, and Apple already has a lot of great stuff

00:16:51   in VoiceOver and their controls by voice,

00:16:53   but layering this on top of it

00:16:55   could be really interesting as well.

00:16:56   - Well, how amazing would it be

00:16:58   to be able to provide VoiceOver

00:17:00   and with developers not actually needing

00:17:03   to do anything anymore?

00:17:04   - Yeah, yeah, 'cause especially out on the web,

00:17:06   a lot of websites don't have proper markup

00:17:08   for that sort of thing.

00:17:09   So that could be, it could be really interesting.

00:17:12   But there's a quote in here

00:17:14   that just kind of blew me away.

00:17:16   So this is a quote from the PDF.

00:17:19   "We demonstrate large improvements

00:17:20   "over an existing system with similar functionality

00:17:24   "across different types of references,

00:17:26   "with our smallest model obtaining absolute gains

00:17:30   "of over 5% for onscreen references."

00:17:34   Here's the sentence.

00:17:36   "Our larger models substantially outperform GPT-4."

00:17:41   - Substantially?

00:17:42   - Substantially. - How large

00:17:43   is that model, though?

00:17:45   - Well, we don't know the relative size of the models.

00:17:49   And reading in context, it seems like they're talking about

00:17:53   what GPT-4 can do in this arena,

00:17:58   I almost said realm, but that's the name of the model.

00:17:59   That would've been confusing.

00:18:01   In the realm, realm of--

00:18:06   - Yes, that one.

00:18:08   - Of using what's on display for context and reference.

00:18:13   So that sentence, that's probably very finely cut.

00:18:16   But if Apple thinks they're playing at the level of open AI

00:18:19   in some of these areas, that's super interesting.

00:18:23   And I think this model,

00:18:24   out of all the things we've talked about,

00:18:26   like editing images, the language and text tools,

00:18:31   this is the one that so far I'm most excited about,

00:18:35   that an assistant or a model could have the context

00:18:40   of what I'm working on

00:18:41   without me having to copy a bunch of stuff

00:18:45   and dump it into a website and like, hey, figure this out.

00:18:48   Like it knows what I'm looking at.

00:18:50   And with permission,

00:18:51   I guarantee there'll be strict permissions around this,

00:18:54   that the system could do things.

00:18:57   And Federico, you pointed out that

00:18:59   Apple's already been playing with this a little bit, right?

00:19:02   - Yeah, I mean, for the past few years.

00:19:05   So first, I don't remember, was it iOS 11 or something?

00:19:09   Like, by really going way back.

00:19:12   They rolled out the very rudimentary integration with Siri.

00:19:17   How you used to be able, like the first version

00:19:21   was only integrated, I believe, with reminders.

00:19:23   So you could say, hey, assistant, remind me about this.

00:19:27   And this was whatever was on screen.

00:19:30   And they were using, I believe,

00:19:31   a combination of the NSUserActivity API

00:19:35   to capture what you were looking at.

00:19:37   And that allowed Siri to,

00:19:39   and of course, Siri just activated on my watch,

00:19:41   that allowed Siri to save a reminder

00:19:44   for what you were looking at.

00:19:45   So for example, a webpage with a little icon

00:19:48   that was a deep link to the page that you were looking at.

00:19:51   That worked with any compatible apps.

00:19:53   So Apple Maps, for example, allowed you to save locations.

00:19:58   Apps that had sort of deep linking support,

00:20:02   they all integrated with it.

00:20:03   And then a few years ago,

00:20:05   they rolled out in shortcuts,

00:20:07   and Siri at the same time, of course,

00:20:09   the get what's on screen action.

00:20:12   This is an integration that you can use right now

00:20:14   in shortcuts.

00:20:15   It never worked quite reliably.

00:20:20   Like sometimes it just doesn't get what's on screen.

00:20:23   Mostly I tried using it with Safari on iOS and iPadOS,

00:20:28   because in the iPhone version of Safari,

00:20:32   you can do what you can do on the Mac,

00:20:34   where you can just say,

00:20:35   hey, get the current webpage in Safari.

00:20:37   And instead, if you use the get what's on screen action,

00:20:41   you can get the link of the page

00:20:43   by having the intelligence, whatever,

00:20:46   determine what's on screen.

00:20:48   So this is a very primitive implementation

00:20:51   of something that sounds much, much fancier in this paper,

00:20:55   and that I really hope Apple gets right,

00:20:58   because it could be obviously

00:20:59   one of the key differentiators here compared to ChatGPT.

00:21:04   Just process whatever is on screen,

00:21:06   which is in fact pretty much what the X Workflow folks

00:21:11   and shortcuts folks are working on pretty much

00:21:14   at the moment with their startup.

00:21:16   - The reason I was wondering about like the size

00:21:21   of this model compared to the small model,

00:21:24   compared to ChatGPT or whatever is this is the type of thing

00:21:28   that I would want to be running locally

00:21:30   if I was gonna be using this efficiently,

00:21:34   and also with what I would want to be privacy.

00:21:38   Like I wouldn't want those queries

00:21:41   to be going off to the cloud.

00:21:44   - I wonder if that's what is behind Apple's language

00:21:46   of our smallest model is over 5% gains,

00:21:51   the larger model substantially outperform.

00:21:55   Maybe there will be like a two-step function of this

00:21:59   where you can say, I always want this type of work

00:22:02   on a device, but there's a toggle somewhere of like,

00:22:04   if I want more power, go to the cloud.

00:22:07   I agree with you, something like this,

00:22:08   I want on device, I think, but maybe there's gonna be

00:22:13   some sort of sliding scale of what you can do.

00:22:18   Or maybe it'll be something like

00:22:20   the whisper transcription tools,

00:22:22   like a Mac whisper and a couple other apps

00:22:24   have kind of been built to wrap around that.

00:22:27   And a Mac whisper, you can set what model you're using

00:22:31   and the trade-off is space on disc,

00:22:34   it like downloads the model and the big one is enormous.

00:22:37   And so maybe that's a way Apple could do this

00:22:40   of like, it's all on a device and you kind of pick

00:22:43   how powerful you want it to be based on the space

00:22:48   or the level of performance your device has.

00:22:51   I don't know, that's a big question for me.

00:22:53   - But also the big models can always get smaller, right?

00:22:58   Like the efficiencies and the accuracy of larger models

00:23:03   changes over time, right?

00:23:05   And smaller models get more accurate

00:23:07   because they get smarter at being able to understand

00:23:10   the same thing with a less amount of input.

00:23:12   So like, you know, this can be like an ongoing,

00:23:17   or will be, I'm sure, an ongoing project

00:23:19   where they wanna try and make the small model

00:23:21   as good as the large model.

00:23:22   And it really is just a case of time, it feels like,

00:23:25   for a little bit of stuff now, so yeah.

00:23:30   - I continue to remain, I'm trying to find the word,

00:23:35   like I'm pleased about the fact that they're continuing

00:23:40   to publish work, which suggests that they're working

00:23:44   very hard at this stuff, which I think Apple really,

00:23:47   really should be working very hard at this stuff.

00:23:49   And so I'm pleased to see it.

00:23:51   You love to see it, as they say.

00:23:53   - You love to see it.

00:23:57   We've got new betas, iOS 17.5, iPadOS 17.5.

00:24:02   What's going on here?

00:24:05   I haven't played with these yet.

00:24:07   - Sorry, there's a bit of everything.

00:24:08   Like there's new betas for everything.

00:24:10   You know, there's also the watch, there's also the VisionOS,

00:24:13   everything's like incremented by one.

00:24:16   I think it seems like the biggest thing in iOS 17.5

00:24:21   is sideloading, so the ability to install apps from the web,

00:24:26   which is not currently in .4.

00:24:29   9to5Mac also found code that this version could enable

00:24:35   the work that Apple and Google have been doing

00:24:37   about tracking devices.

00:24:39   So Apple and Google have worked together

00:24:42   to try and help create an overall picture

00:24:45   of all of the types of devices that people could use,

00:24:48   like an AirTag or a tile or a tracker,

00:24:51   like those all competing things, to help people who,

00:24:56   they're effectively being used on a stalking device.

00:24:59   And so this code in iOS would seem to be able to,

00:25:04   can indicate if there is a device that is tracking you,

00:25:07   even if it's not in the Firemind network,

00:25:10   it can't help you get rid of it,

00:25:13   but they can indicate to you this is this type of device,

00:25:17   this is where you can go to disable this.

00:25:21   Like this is how this device can be disabled.

00:25:23   Like it can point you in the right direction.

00:25:26   And it's doing that through I'm sure a lot of complicated

00:25:28   stuff around Bluetooth and how Bluetooth is tracking.

00:25:30   And really Google and Apple are able to work together

00:25:33   to share this information.

00:25:35   I expect it will be some kind of like ongoing list

00:25:37   that they're adding to, where they can try

00:25:40   and detect these types of devices, so that's cool.

00:25:43   And iPadOS 17.5, 9to5 also found code

00:25:48   that indicates the next Apple Pencil will include

00:25:51   a quote squeeze gesture, I'll read from the article.

00:25:54   The gesture can be used for quick interaction,

00:25:56   such as adding shapes, signatures, stickers,

00:25:58   or a text field.

00:25:59   Presumably the gesture will be triggered

00:26:02   by pressing the Apple Pencil surface.

00:26:05   - Squeeze to draw.

00:26:07   - Squeeze to, that's not what I want, I want buttons.

00:26:09   I want like an actual button. - Squeeze to erase.

00:26:11   - Like tapping, squeezing, just put a button on it.

00:26:15   And maybe it will be like in essence a button,

00:26:18   but you squeeze the button like it's solid state

00:26:20   or something.

00:26:21   - I think it makes sense, like you squeeze your AirPods

00:26:24   already, they don't call it squeeze, right, on the AirPods.

00:26:27   What did they call it?

00:26:28   - I don't know what they call it.

00:26:29   - Press. - Press, hold, squeeze,

00:26:31   press, I don't know.

00:26:32   - AirPods, bro. - Embrace, hold, squeeze.

00:26:34   - I think embrace is the verb.

00:26:36   - Squeeze, you're not embracing your AirPods.

00:26:38   - Yeah, it's like a tiny embrace.

00:26:40   - It's, they don't say squeeze.

00:26:45   - Well, hang on, we have that PDF.

00:26:50   - Press, they just say press.

00:26:52   - Press, okay, I was gonna look it up in the style guide.

00:26:55   - Press, the touch control.

00:26:56   - Press doesn't feel right, 'cause you don't press it, do you?

00:26:59   Like you press with a finger. - Squeeze it.

00:27:02   You pinch it or something.

00:27:04   - Squeeze it, pinch it, push it.

00:27:06   - Maybe you're only pressing on one side

00:27:08   and the other finger needs to be there

00:27:09   so it doesn't pop out of your ear, so.

00:27:11   - Yeah, but that's a squeeze.

00:27:13   - It feels like squeezing. - That's a squeeze,

00:27:13   that's not a press.

00:27:15   - Well, so there's gonna be a new Apple Pencil

00:27:19   with the new iPads and you're gonna squeeze them.

00:27:23   So that's cool, I mean, it sounds like they're gonna have

00:27:26   this new gesture and you're gonna be able to configure it

00:27:28   to whatever you want, that's, you know,

00:27:30   knowing Apple, there's gonna be an option in settings

00:27:32   and whatever they're gonna call this,

00:27:34   like press the pencil, whatever, or pinch the pencil,

00:27:37   you will be able to assign like a shortcut to it.

00:27:41   That would be my guess.

00:27:43   - Press, yes, but I found out on the web,

00:27:45   on like, I've been scouring the apple.com AirPods page

00:27:49   and here it says, "I'm pressed twice to end a call."

00:27:52   So it's pressing. - Press, press, press.

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00:29:24   and Relay FM.

00:29:25   - All right, it is time for our favorite result

00:29:31   of the DMA, the Teach Italian segment.

00:29:34   - Buongiorno, professor.

00:29:37   Today, we are going to learn the verb to be.

00:29:42   We're going to learn how to conjugate the verb to be

00:29:48   with the different types of persons that we need to try

00:29:53   with Italian language.

00:29:56   So last week we did the pronouns

00:29:57   and today we're going to combine those pronouns

00:30:01   with the verb to be.

00:30:02   So you can say I am, you are and so forth.

00:30:05   So I'm going to do, I'm going to read the Italian versions

00:30:09   first, but first disclaimer.

00:30:13   You should know that unlike the English language

00:30:15   where you have the sort of the main form of a verb,

00:30:20   well now I guess there are irregular verbs in English too.

00:30:24   So disregard what I was about to say.

00:30:27   The verb to be also is an irregular verb in Italian,

00:30:31   which is to say it changes form depending

00:30:35   on the tense and the pronoun.

00:30:38   So I am is io sono.

00:30:41   You are is to say.

00:30:45   He, she, they, you know, the third person is lui o lei,

00:30:51   e or if we're using the singular they, loro sono.

00:30:58   - I'm lost.

00:31:01   - I don't even really know what we're doing anymore.

00:31:03   - What's to be, like what do you mean?

00:31:06   - So he to be, she to be, they to be.

00:31:10   I am, you are, he is, we are, you are, they are.

00:31:14   - Airbnb. - Very simple.

00:31:15   - Oh, okay, all right.

00:31:17   To be conceptually.

00:31:21   - To be, the verb to be, you know, like I am Mike.

00:31:25   Like what if you need to say I am Mike?

00:31:27   How would you say, you would say io sono Mike.

00:31:29   - Yeah, yeah, so again, like in Romanian,

00:31:32   it would be it's son't.

00:31:34   - Yes. - So there you go.

00:31:35   - Yes, that is pretty much like Latin actually.

00:31:39   - It's all Latin, it's a Latin language.

00:31:41   - Wow, so let's try with the first three, right?

00:31:46   With the first three pronouns and we start with I am

00:31:51   or in Italian, io, which we learned last week sono.

00:31:57   - Io sono. - Yes.

00:32:00   - Io sono. - Okay.

00:32:03   - Tu sei. - Tu sei.

00:32:06   - Tu sei. - Good, so here,

00:32:10   you will learn when we do the numbers

00:32:13   that in the Italian language,

00:32:15   the same word can have different meanings.

00:32:18   In this case, sei, it could either mean like you are,

00:32:23   but the word sei is also the word for the number six.

00:32:32   - It's the same word, but this is what we do sometimes

00:32:37   in the Italian language.

00:32:38   The same word, depending on context,

00:32:41   can have different meanings.

00:32:42   So if you say you are, you're not saying you six,

00:32:46   you're saying you are, like if you say.

00:32:48   - How would you say you six are?

00:32:50   - That doesn't mean anything.

00:32:53   - Yeah, it was like you six are going to the store, right?

00:32:55   So you've said like, there's like seven people,

00:32:58   you're pointing at six, I'm like you six, get out of here.

00:33:01   - Well, you wouldn't say two, you would say voi,

00:33:05   which is the plural version.

00:33:08   - Like the plural of you.

00:33:09   - And there's a plural version of that.

00:33:12   It's not sei, it's siete, which we'll get to in a minute.

00:33:15   - Because it's six, but you're like the word six,

00:33:18   but because you're addressing an individual,

00:33:21   it's not gonna conflict, okay.

00:33:23   - Exactly, you're addressing a singular individual.

00:33:27   - Yeah, so in the Italian language, some words spell

00:33:31   the same way, pronounce the same way,

00:33:33   they have different meanings.

00:33:34   Sometimes the same word can be written down exactly the same,

00:33:39   but we have phonetic accents that change

00:33:43   the sound of the word.

00:33:44   So this is not part of today's lesson,

00:33:46   but for example, the word pesca,

00:33:50   when I say it like this, pesca, it means.

00:33:54   - Is that fish?

00:33:55   - No, it's peach, the fruit.

00:33:57   So pesca, with the open, like pesca, like that,

00:34:03   it means the peach.

00:34:04   If I say pesca, right, you hear the sound,

00:34:08   it's like a tighter sound, that means fishing.

00:34:11   Yes, it's written down the same way.

00:34:16   - So I was close though, right?

00:34:18   - You were close, you must have heard that.

00:34:19   - What is fish, how do you say fish?

00:34:21   - Pesce.

00:34:22   - Yeah, so I was in the right ballpark.

00:34:25   - Teach, peach to fish.

00:34:28   - Yep, but back to the pronouns,

00:34:30   so, eosono, to say, now we do the third person.

00:34:36   So when we do the gendered person,

00:34:39   lui or lei, as we learned last week, e,

00:34:43   and this is the accented e letter, e.

00:34:48   - Yep. - E.

00:34:49   - Oh, okay, so like. - Lui, e.

00:34:53   - Yep.

00:34:54   - Is it like lui, e sono?

00:34:57   - No, no, no, so if you're saying lui or lei,

00:34:59   so that would be he and she, you say e, lui, e, or lei, e.

00:35:04   - Okay, that's it, all right, lei, e.

00:35:09   - Or if you're using the singular they,

00:35:11   so as we learned, it's loro, you would say loro sono.

00:35:15   - Loro sono. - Loro sono.

00:35:18   - Now we do the first person plural.

00:35:20   We, as we learned, it's noi, and the verb is siamo.

00:35:25   Noi siamo.

00:35:28   - Noi siamo. - Noi siamo.

00:35:31   - Not siamo, siamo.

00:35:33   - My favorite thing about this segment

00:35:35   is how Steven gets quieter and quieter.

00:35:37   - Yeah. - The further we go,

00:35:39   I imagine he's just walking away from his computer,

00:35:41   like he's just like on the other side of the room.

00:35:44   - Something that you will learn

00:35:46   as you guys start formulating sentences is that.

00:35:49   - Obviously we will, yeah,

00:35:51   we're definitely gonna get to that level.

00:35:52   - I think you will, I think you will.

00:35:54   You will try a very short sentence today.

00:35:56   Verbs, they always end in kinda in the same way.

00:36:03   So for example, when you say a verb and the pronoun is we,

00:36:07   in this case, we said noi siamo.

00:36:10   But if I were to say we eat, right,

00:36:12   like we eat pasta, for example,

00:36:15   I would say noi manjamo.

00:36:17   So you hear how it always ends with the same sound?

00:36:21   Siamo, manjamo, it always ends like that.

00:36:24   - Tomato.

00:36:25   - I love how similar, so to eat in Romanian is manunca.

00:36:31   - Yeah.

00:36:32   - I love this, I'm really enjoying,

00:36:34   as I'm learning Romanian.

00:36:35   - The similarities.

00:36:36   - Understanding the similarities

00:36:37   between Romanian and Italian.

00:36:39   'Cause whenever we have been to Italy,

00:36:41   Adina can kind of just get by, like she can work out,

00:36:44   she can't speak it, but she can understand

00:36:45   what people are saying to her.

00:36:46   - I believe one of the words she knew was manjare,

00:36:50   which is to eat, of course, she knew that word.

00:36:53   - It's an easy one, 'cause I recognize it too.

00:36:56   - Yeah, so you are, it's voi siete.

00:37:00   - Voi siete.

00:37:03   - Yep.

00:37:03   Steven is just gone.

00:37:07   - Say it again.

00:37:08   - He just left.

00:37:08   - Voi siete.

00:37:10   - Voi siete.

00:37:12   - Yep, and finally again, third person plural,

00:37:15   loro sono.

00:37:17   - Loro sono.

00:37:18   - Loro sono.

00:37:19   - Yep.

00:37:20   - So that's the same--

00:37:21   - Mike, you actually made a pretty good sound

00:37:23   for the letter R, yeah.

00:37:25   - Oh, good, they're all completely accidental.

00:37:28   So this is because, again, like we were talking

00:37:31   about earlier, and I guess this is contextual, right?

00:37:35   It's the same as in English, because we did,

00:37:37   it's the two theys, but it's the same word.

00:37:40   - Yeah, the two theys are the same, yes.

00:37:43   So very simple sentence.

00:37:45   I want you to say, "I am Mike" or "I am Steven."

00:37:47   So how would you say it?

00:37:49   Would it be "Yo sono Mike"?

00:37:52   -Yep. -"La sono Esteban"

00:37:54   I don't know what you did!

00:37:57   Well, if you were to go for an Italian version of your name,

00:38:03   you would say, "Yo sono Stefano."

00:38:04   Stefano, oh!

00:38:07   Not Stefano.

00:38:07   -Stefano. -Stefano.

00:38:11   Is there an Italian Michael?

00:38:13   -Michele. -Michele.

00:38:15   -Oh, "Yo sono Michele." -Yes.

00:38:18   Yes, baby, I love it.

00:38:21   And that's it for today.

00:38:22   -Thank you. -That's fantastic.

00:38:24   So wait, just one last thing.

00:38:25   You're like, it would be "Tu se Federico," right?

00:38:28   Yes, yes.

00:38:30   -I'm learning. -Yeah.

00:38:32   We've had a fun 24 hours out of nowhere,

00:38:38   like literally out of nowhere, like a Trojan horse.

00:38:41   Apple enabled spatial personas.

00:38:44   Now, this is something that we've seen a little bit of at WWDC.

00:38:50   Apple published some imagery of what a spatial persona would look like

00:38:55   in a FaceTime call.

00:38:56   So currently, we know what personas are, people have seen them by now.

00:39:00   It is the 3D representation of your face

00:39:04   that when you wear a Vision Pro, people will see as a FaceTime call.

00:39:10   And they've been in boxes previously when you're on a call,

00:39:15   but this is breaking the persona out of the box.

00:39:18   They are now, you see a head, part of shoulders,

00:39:21   and people's hands.

00:39:23   They are positioned in a space with you.

00:39:25   And it feels like, you know, you can have calls with people

00:39:30   when you're FaceTiming, it moves them from opposite you to next to you.

00:39:34   So you're looking at the, like if you're doing, sorry,

00:39:36   like SharePlay and FaceTime, so you can look at, say,

00:39:38   a TV screen together or something.

00:39:40   It's very different, but Apple enabled this in, just all of a sudden.

00:39:45   It's been in 1.1 and it maybe took a reboot of a Vision Pro,

00:39:49   but now when you're on a FaceTime call,

00:39:51   there's a new button that you can press and it turns on spatial personas.

00:39:55   We have done some individual calls.

00:39:57   Me and Steven were part of a five-person call today as well.

00:40:01   And you can do things from just having a conversation with people

00:40:05   to playing games.

00:40:06   We've all played Battleship, which is part of the Game Room game,

00:40:11   which is an Apple Arcade, which is a really great experience.

00:40:13   Yeah.

00:40:15   Well, Steven, what do you think about all this?

00:40:17   I think it's fascinating.

00:40:19   It really changes the sense of presence

00:40:24   when someone goes from floating in a gray box

00:40:27   to being more three-dimensional.

00:40:31   And Apple's doing some stuff to really make that fun.

00:40:34   Like if someone stands up and you're sitting down, they're taller than you.

00:40:38   If someone turns, you see kind of like,

00:40:43   you don't see the back of their head, right?

00:40:45   The persona doesn't capture that, but you kind of see them turn.

00:40:47   It just, it feels.

00:40:51   It feels much more real in a way that I honestly did not expect.

00:40:54   That's not to say it's goofy and like weird things happen,

00:40:57   like the top image in my blog post is Jason coming through my home view

00:41:01   of my Vision Pro while on the moon.

00:41:03   It's like a very funny image.

00:41:05   But the sense of presence is really cool, and they adjust

00:41:10   how it works depending on on what you're doing.

00:41:13   So if I just call somebody and we're in our spatial personas,

00:41:18   that person is across from me.

00:41:20   We're like looking at each other.

00:41:22   But then if we go into a SharePlay experience, say we're going to watch

00:41:27   something on Apple TV Plus or have like a free form board or something like that,

00:41:32   then suddenly we're sitting side by side as like we're looking at the document

00:41:38   together, like from the same perspective, we're watching a movie,

00:41:43   we're in a theater side by side.

00:41:45   It's really compelling in a way that honestly,

00:41:47   I did not expect and caught me a little off guard.

00:41:50   And of course, they're doing a great job of spatial audio as well.

00:41:55   So as as like they are moving people around, which they do,

00:41:58   depending on what you're doing, right?

00:42:00   Like if you're if you're just talking to people, they kind of arrange you

00:42:03   in a circle, like the first person is facing you.

00:42:07   And then as more people join, it kind of like shifts shifts them around

00:42:10   to you're in a circle as a maximum of five people that can be on a call.

00:42:13   But as people are moving, whether you're talking to them head on

00:42:16   or they're moving to be next to you in a plane

00:42:19   because you're looking at a screen together with SharePlay,

00:42:21   it changes where they are.

00:42:23   So you know where to look because you can hear them.

00:42:26   They're right next to you.

00:42:28   So this combination of SharePlay and spatial audio like.

00:42:33   There is a really good question of which came first with these.

00:42:38   Was this stuff made for Vision Pro or have they just taken these technologies

00:42:42   and made them work really well with Vision Pro?

00:42:44   It's hard to tell sometimes of Apple.

00:42:47   But this is one of those scenarios where it feels like a lot of their component

00:42:50   parts have come together to create something which is like

00:42:55   I was in this call today with the guys and there were five of us.

00:42:58   And like it felt like to me, this is the reason to buy a Vision Pro,

00:43:02   because I felt today that I was just hanging out in my buds for a bit.

00:43:06   And like, yeah, it was very compelling, very, very, very compelling.

00:43:11   More than any other type of VR experience I've had like this,

00:43:16   where you're trying to like spend time in a shared space.

00:43:19   It was really, really, really, really good.

00:43:21   I was very impressed by it.

00:43:23   I thought it was going to be a gimmicky thing for like a couple of minutes.

00:43:27   But the more we spent like it, Mike and I,

00:43:31   we played the session of Battleship with Game Room.

00:43:34   And it did feel like I was just hanging out with Mike for 15 minutes.

00:43:38   And we played a game and like the sense of presence and like the sort

00:43:43   of the virtual physicality of it in a way like how, for example,

00:43:48   I had to like look over the board of the game.

00:43:53   If I wanted to see Mike's face, like,

00:43:55   which is something that I would do in real life,

00:43:56   if that object was physically in front of me, I would have to do that.

00:44:00   And I had to do that for something that didn't exist in the physical space at all.

00:44:04   But it kind of did in the Vision Pro space that felt like,

00:44:10   it felt credible. It felt like something that, you know,

00:44:15   what if I want to just hang out with Mike and talk about, you know,

00:44:19   talking about podcasts or whatever and get some work done for like half an hour.

00:44:23   It would be so much better than to do the same in a Zoom window, you know,

00:44:28   where we're looking at our faces in the webcam. And like, I don't know,

00:44:33   it just felt less isolating. And it felt very nice.

00:44:39   Yeah, it was really great.

00:44:40   Yeah. I also tried to put my finger in Mike's mouth.

00:44:44   Yes. That's the first thing you tried to do.

00:44:46   I kind of put my finger in your mouth and I said, you can try.

00:44:49   And as soon as he did it, my head disappeared. So I think Apple has quite rightly,

00:44:53   like you can touch hands, but you can't touch somebody's face.

00:44:59   Yeah. Yeah. Now they kind of disappear. They're like a, like a,

00:45:03   like a ghost or something. And also when you forget,

00:45:05   I wanted to like kiss Mike on the forehead. But like,

00:45:09   but when I get close, your face disappears. So,

00:45:16   unfortunately it cannot be done. But yeah, like the,

00:45:20   the fact that the personas are rearranged in the workspace,

00:45:25   depending on the SharePlay experience,

00:45:27   I think that is also very fascinating. So you could,

00:45:30   you could imagine how different types of 3D objects in the, in the,

00:45:34   what's it called? Like the, the, the full space,

00:45:38   like what's it called when you're using a 3D thing in VisionOS?

00:45:42   Anyway, like how he rearranges the environment. No,

00:45:47   like there's a proper terminology for like the,

00:45:49   like the space when you're using a 3D experience, but whatever you get what I

00:45:55   mean. Like, so how he rearranges effectively,

00:45:57   like the heads of the personas, depending on the 3D object.

00:46:01   I thought that was very cool.

00:46:02   Yeah. It's all,

00:46:05   it's all really well thought out and it's something that that Apple talked about

00:46:09   in June and included the needed a little more time to get it

00:46:14   ready. But no, Federico it's interesting.

00:46:16   Like it's interesting to hear y'all have the same reaction I did,

00:46:20   that it really is impactful. In fact, after our, our big group call today,

00:46:24   I ran inside to get a bottle of water and like say,

00:46:26   had to marry before we sat down to record. I told her, I was like,

00:46:30   this sounds ridiculous, but like if the prices came down and like,

00:46:33   my work changed where I was on the road a lot, like I, like I was before COVID,

00:46:39   like this would be a great way to like communicate,

00:46:42   like if I wasn't home a bunch, right.

00:46:45   And it's not the only reason to get a vision pro,

00:46:48   but this is now the top of my list, my relatively short list of like reasons to,

00:46:53   to consider one of these things, because the, the sense of,

00:46:59   this is a presence really is something that is hard, that is hard to convey.

00:47:05   Like when Mike stood up, I was sitting on the couch in my office and,

00:47:08   and you stood up and you were taller than me. Like it,

00:47:13   it felt like you were looking down on me. Like there's a,

00:47:15   there's a screenshot in my blog post. Like we all put our hands in the middle.

00:47:18   It's like, we're playing the hokey pokey.

00:47:19   Like it's really weird how your brain sort of latches onto this

00:47:24   now. Is it lifelike? No, like,

00:47:28   enough, but it's enough. It's enough.

00:47:32   Would I like to have arms at some point? Is that just hands? Yeah.

00:47:36   Would I like my hands to look like my actual hands? Yeah. But for where we are,

00:47:40   you know, three months into this thing, it's, it's compelling. Yeah.

00:47:44   I mean, couple of years down the road,

00:47:47   they're probably going to do a full body scan, right?

00:47:49   And you're going to have like a proper realistic 3D.

00:47:52   You might not need a full body scan though.

00:47:55   Nobody imagine if you were actually sitting next to me.

00:47:58   No, but like they could, they could create. Oh, I mean, yes. Right. Like,

00:48:03   like, like they should have, Mike,

00:48:07   have you played Dragon's Dogma at all? I haven't. I haven't.

00:48:10   So they have this incredible character creator that I think is the best

00:48:15   character creator I've ever seen in a video game.

00:48:17   And like I could imagine something like that in VisionOS,

00:48:19   like where you're scanning your face and your hands,

00:48:23   but then if you want to create your body and like pick a different outfit or

00:48:26   whatever, you would have like a little video game creation,

00:48:29   character creation screen or something,

00:48:31   which is sort of like what they have with the Memoji in a way. But imagine that,

00:48:35   but for a realistic avatar, that would be cool.

00:48:37   It would be really cool.

00:48:39   Yeah. I'm like, I'm fascinated by this. Um,

00:48:45   I,

00:48:46   clearly this is what they wanted to ship, right?

00:48:50   Like this is so much better than just talking to the personas as they were when

00:48:56   it shipped. It's like, to me,

00:48:58   like this is obvious that this is what they wanted this to be when it,

00:49:02   from the beginning. Uh, but it's,

00:49:05   now that it's here, like I, I'm very much struck by like, Oh man,

00:49:09   I would love to be able to do this as a regular thing with my friends

00:49:15   and we can just hang out. And you know,

00:49:17   like it's funny that you said that about, uh,

00:49:19   we're talking to Mary Steven because I know that obviously she has been, uh,

00:49:23   quite against the idea, right. Just in general,

00:49:26   like she doesn't like the vision pro you had said before that she thought it was

00:49:30   kind of strange, but this is how you start to get people,

00:49:34   right? It's stuff like this where now you're like, Oh no,

00:49:38   like you,

00:49:40   I think you would dig this and then maybe she would try it when you'd be on the

00:49:42   road and be like, okay, I still think this thing is kind of silly,

00:49:45   but this is a really cool use case. And like these,

00:49:48   these are the things that you kind of like start stacking these up over time and

00:49:52   they become reasons for people to adopt this technology.

00:49:56   And that's how it kind of like proliferates, right? It's,

00:49:59   it's kind of interesting that even you would suggest that to her.

00:50:02   Yeah. Not something I would have done before, before this.

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00:52:39   So Federico's out here. He's out here, you know, he's doing his thing.

00:52:46   He's living his life. He's hacking and slashing now with the Vision Pro.

00:52:51   How are you enjoying your Etsy purchases Federico?

00:52:55   I am loving them.

00:52:57   I have one final delivery on the way from

00:53:02   John.

00:53:02   I heard about this. John told me about this earlier. I don't know what it is,

00:53:05   but he's like, I'm posting again for Federico.

00:53:08   It's an alternative to the air cover.

00:53:11   It's a similar product. We'll see.

00:53:14   We'll see if it's more comfortable or not.

00:53:16   But yeah,

00:53:17   so I posted last week on Mac stories about how I'm using the Vision Pro without a

00:53:22   light seal and with the two sort of like

00:53:27   solo knit bands.

00:53:29   That's the setup that I'm using right now. I'm basically,

00:53:33   don't have a light seal. I'm using this accessory called the air cover,

00:53:37   which makes the Vision Pro sort of like rest on my

00:53:42   forehead so that I can use it without the light seal,

00:53:47   the blocks, you know, the light from, from all sides.

00:53:50   And it's like,

00:53:51   It reminds me of how the PSVR would sit,

00:53:56   right? Like kind of like on your forehead and then almost like suspend

00:54:01   the thing in front of you.

00:54:03   Yeah. It's, it's basically suspended in front of my eyes.

00:54:07   Of course it's using the two bands,

00:54:12   which I've been doing for the past month. I'm using this adapter.

00:54:14   I've tried a lot of adapters, like literally every single one on Etsy.

00:54:19   And the best one, if anybody's interested in this sort of product,

00:54:22   the best one is the Solo Top that you can get from Etsy.

00:54:25   A really good high quality print on this one

00:54:29   feels much better than other 3D printed objects that I've tried.

00:54:33   And it fits in perfectly with the Vision Pro audio straps.

00:54:39   And there's even like a version for the developer strap,

00:54:43   if you want to get that.

00:54:44   So the two bands, you know, the one in the back of the head and the one on top of the head,

00:54:50   it's so comfortable as a system.

00:54:53   I believe that Jon, One True Jon is also now a believer.

00:54:57   And yeah, it's very, very comfortable.

00:55:00   And it's sort of a confirmed

00:55:04   how much I love this band design from Apple,

00:55:07   like how easy it is to put it on, how accessible really it is to adjust,

00:55:12   you know, just by turning the dial.

00:55:14   Like it doesn't require all the fiddling of, for example,

00:55:19   the dual loop strap.

00:55:22   It's very easy to put on and adjust.

00:55:25   And having one at the top of the head looks kind of ridiculous.

00:55:29   But boy, is it comfortable. It's really, really comfortable.

00:55:32   And I basically don't feel the Vision Pro on my face,

00:55:35   like my cheekbones or my nose anymore with this system.

00:55:38   And the other realization that I had over the past month was that

00:55:43   the Vision Pro made me realize that I'm not really a VR guy,

00:55:46   but I am so on board with AR and sort of the mixed reality approach.

00:55:52   Like I never spend time in environment.

00:55:54   I always like to keep an eye on what is going on around me,

00:55:59   whether it's like my dogs or if Silvia is at home or...

00:56:03   I use the Vision Pro at night a lot,

00:56:06   and I just like to see that, you know, Silvia is sleeping

00:56:10   and that the dogs are sleeping and that nothing is going on.

00:56:12   I just like to be aware all the time, which I understand why for a lot of people,

00:56:16   this is like the opposite of why they got a Vision Pro,

00:56:21   because they want to be immersed.

00:56:22   They want to sort of shut out the outside world.

00:56:25   And I understand that.

00:56:27   But for me, I just want to use this AR product from Apple.

00:56:31   You know, I just I'm in pass-through mode all the time.

00:56:34   And for that reason, I think it made more sense for me to get this accessory,

00:56:39   the Air Cover, and basically use the Vision Pro as an AR/MR accessory.

00:56:47   What is it like if you do use an environment, though?

00:56:50   Like, obviously they work.

00:56:52   Well, you see the environment, but then you see also like...

00:56:54   Because you have real peripheral vision, right?

00:56:57   Yeah.

00:56:59   The environment, you can actually look at the...

00:57:02   It wraps around you, but there are basically on the left and right,

00:57:06   two holes in your peripheral vision.

00:57:09   And so it kind of...

00:57:11   I mean, you can...

00:57:12   So this is something that I've done.

00:57:13   You can set up the environment in front of you

00:57:16   and it kind of serves as a nice wallpaper of sorts.

00:57:20   Like, I don't want to see my kitchen or I don't want to see my living room.

00:57:24   I'm just going to dial in the environment.

00:57:26   But it's not going to create that illusion of...

00:57:30   I mean, I'm on the moon.

00:57:31   I'm by a lake or something.

00:57:34   It just creates a nicer backdrop.

00:57:37   That's what it does.

00:57:38   When you're looking at the pass-through and you have peripheral vision,

00:57:48   do they match up?

00:57:50   No, very good question.

00:57:54   They mostly match up,

00:57:56   but the one way to realize that they don't match up actually is to hold,

00:58:02   like, for example, a finger really close to your face.

00:58:05   And in your peripheral vision, you see that the finger is at a certain distance.

00:58:10   In the Vision Pro pass-through, you see that it's more zoomed in or something.

00:58:16   Like, you get different proportions, like a different distance.

00:58:20   If I hold my index finger right next to my left eye, for example,

00:58:25   and I look at it with actual peripheral vision, I see that it's at a certain distance.

00:58:31   If I look at it from the pass-through, it's at a different distance.

00:58:35   But this is not something that...

00:58:37   Like, you only notice this if you're looking at objects that are both within the peripheral vision field

00:58:45   and in the pass-through field.

00:58:47   So, like, the same thing, you can see it in two different ways at the same time,

00:58:52   but otherwise it's not a problem.

00:58:54   Because, like, if I'm staring at my desk or something, I'm only looking at my desk from the pass-through.

00:58:58   Okay.

00:59:00   I see.

00:59:01   So, the...

00:59:04   What do you call it? The dual solo loop bands.

00:59:09   Yeah.

00:59:10   What...

00:59:11   I'm struggling to understand the benefit of that over the dual loop.

00:59:15   Like...

00:59:15   Okay.

00:59:16   Take adjustment out of the equation, right?

00:59:19   Well...

00:59:19   I never adjust it.

00:59:21   Oh, interesting.

00:59:22   So, I never adjust the dual loop because I just take it off and put it on again.

00:59:27   Outside of adjustment, does it provide you other benefits?

00:59:31   Well, I think it's more comfortable because it's larger,

00:59:34   and so it's got, like, a wider surface area that, like, sits on your head.

00:59:38   Okay.

00:59:39   I just...

00:59:40   The fact that it's wider makes it more comfortable,

00:59:44   and I could never get... I could never do what you just said, like, never adjust the dual loop.

00:59:51   You couldn't find it, right.

00:59:52   I couldn't fit it right, and I just...

00:59:54   I love so much how you can just turn a dial to adjust the band.

01:00:00   It is cool that you don't...

01:00:01   Because when you do adjust the dual loop,

01:00:04   the problem is it's very hard to actually make that adjustment.

01:00:10   It's hard to do it because you've kind of got to pull,

01:00:13   and then you've got to, like, wrap the velcro back around again.

01:00:16   It's like a velcro system where the loop band, you just keep tightening it until it's tight, right?

01:00:22   But you're not looking at it.

01:00:24   And you're not looking at it, so you need to go for it, like, by feeling it,

01:00:29   and I thought that was very uncomfortable.

01:00:31   I don't understand, though, why they have not and did not ship my kind of, like, grail band,

01:00:38   which was the one that we used at WWDC.

01:00:40   Me neither. I don't get it.

01:00:42   Which is the solo loop on the back.

01:00:44   No, you can't. I tried.

01:00:46   The dual loop is one piece.

01:00:51   Yeah, you would have to destroy or really seriously modify the dual loop

01:00:56   by cutting it and sort of re-knitting it yourself.

01:01:00   Yeah, because it was one fixture, right?

01:01:04   That went into the side of the Vision Pro, and it had the two pieces.

01:01:09   I just don't understand.

01:01:12   Because as you pointed out in your article, Federico, it's still in the imagery on the website.

01:01:18   Like, it's in the original marketing video.

01:01:20   Yeah, in the original marketing.

01:01:21   Well, they replaced the images, I think, actually, and the frames in the videos.

01:01:25   I think they did this, like, a couple of weeks ago.

01:01:27   Yeah, they did that.

01:01:29   Federico, if someone wanted to go down this road,

01:01:32   like, say they just bought this thing on Etsy, and his name was Steven,

01:01:37   what should the sizing be in relation to the solo knit band

01:01:43   that goes around the back of your head versus the top of your head?

01:01:46   Like, I think mine is a medium. Should I get another medium?

01:01:49   No, you should get one size smaller for the top of your head.

01:01:54   So I have medium in the back and S size on the top.

01:01:57   Okay.

01:01:58   That's how, typically, I guess, how human heads tend to be shaped.

01:02:04   Yeah, unless you have, like, a tall head.

01:02:07   And then maybe...

01:02:08   Unless you have a tall head, I don't think you have a tall head.

01:02:11   I think it's pretty...

01:02:13   But for your type of haircut, also, I think you should get, like, one size smaller for the top.

01:02:20   I tried with the same size, I tried with the M, and it was too loose.

01:02:24   And, yeah, you want that top band to sort of balance the Vision Pro on your head,

01:02:31   so that you don't feel the pressure, like, on your face anymore.

01:02:35   Okay.

01:02:35   Are you able to just buy the bands about, like, needing to go through a whole thing?

01:02:38   Yeah.

01:02:39   You can do it with the license.

01:02:40   Yeah, and they're very expensive.

01:02:41   It's a hundred bucks.

01:02:42   Yeah.

01:02:43   Yeah.

01:02:44   I'm doing it right now.

01:02:45   Yeah. So, yeah, the Solo Top and another band is, like, highly recommended.

01:02:51   And then the Air Cover accessory, which I believe was restocked this week,

01:02:57   but they frequently run out of stock.

01:03:00   That's optional, like, it really depends if you want to use the Vision Pro as a VR headset.

01:03:06   Like, then keep using the light seal, add a secondary band, and you're going to love it.

01:03:11   But if you want to go the extra mile and are interested in the idea of removing the light seal,

01:03:18   I would highly recommend that you do get one of these accessories.

01:03:22   One is the Air Cover, which is the one that I'm using.

01:03:26   There's another one, which I'm waiting for it to arrive.

01:03:29   I believe it's called the Vision Pro Open Face System or something like that.

01:03:34   It's on Etsy.

01:03:35   The names.

01:03:35   The names.

01:03:35   Yeah, that one is on Etsy, and so it's probably easier to buy.

01:03:39   The Infinity One, the makers of the Air Cover, I believe it's a Spain-based company,

01:03:44   so you got to account for shipping and all of that.

01:03:46   And they frequently run out of stock.

01:03:49   On Etsy, you will find the Open...

01:03:52   I believe it's the Open Face System, but it's a similar product, but I have not tested it yet.

01:03:58   Open Face System.

01:03:59   Can we just consider that phrase for a second?

01:04:02   I know.

01:04:03   Open Face System.

01:04:04   It's like open AI.

01:04:06   Let me confirm.

01:04:07   I have a screenshot from John.

01:04:09   Yeah, it's the Open Face System.

01:04:11   Open Face System.

01:04:13   Open Face System.

01:04:14   Yep.

01:04:15   I do love, I really do love the way that people spring up these little businesses.

01:04:25   I find it so inspiring.

01:04:28   There is such a tiny market, you know?

01:04:30   And they're just really going for it.

01:04:34   Like I'm looking at this page now.

01:04:36   They have also the Bobo VR Me Plus ink front pad and Bobo VR adapters, in case you want that.

01:04:43   Yeah, the Bobo VR adapters are pretty popular with some Quest users, I think.

01:04:48   Yeah, it's a Bobo VR strap, but they've created an adapter for the Vision Pro

01:04:54   that works with the Bobo VR strap.

01:04:56   Yeah.

01:04:56   Bobo VR.

01:04:58   Man, these people are incredible.

01:04:59   I tried, so to give you some context, like, so I literally tried all of the,

01:05:04   so Stephen, you just posted that in Discord.

01:05:08   The comfy top.

01:05:09   Yeah, I was going to see if you use this.

01:05:10   I have the comfy top.

01:05:11   I have the comfy top.

01:05:12   It's all right, but I'm not a fan because it requires using the light seal.

01:05:18   And so for context, this is a thing that lets you put a second band,

01:05:23   like a second solo knit band on the top of your head, but vertically.

01:05:27   Yeah, front to back as opposed to side to side.

01:05:31   It's kind of weird.

01:05:32   And I didn't love how you need to put the plastic clip,

01:05:35   sort of like fit it in between the light seal and the cushion.

01:05:39   Yeah, I don't like that.

01:05:40   Kind of awkward.

01:05:41   I tried that.

01:05:42   I tried all of the other adapters and I settled on the solo top.

01:05:47   I also tried this other adapter by a company called VR Panda.

01:05:52   It's real name of real company.

01:05:53   They make sort of like this.

01:05:57   I don't even know how to describe it.

01:05:59   I believe it's called the Halo strap.

01:06:01   Yeah, it's called the half circle Halo strap for the Vision Pro.

01:06:06   So it's like this.

01:06:07   No, I didn't try.

01:06:08   I'm sorry.

01:06:09   I didn't try the Halo strap.

01:06:11   I tried something that goes like in the back of your head and it's like a giant cushion

01:06:15   that you put basically above your neck.

01:06:17   Let me see if I can find the link.

01:06:22   It was all right, but also not a huge fan.

01:06:24   And the system that I wrote about that I settled on,

01:06:28   I've been using this for basically the past month and I haven't changed it at all.

01:06:31   And that's what I recommend.

01:06:34   The comfort module.

01:06:37   That's what I tried from VR Panda.

01:06:39   And you can get it in orange, which is nice.

01:06:41   And I'm going to put a link in Discord.

01:06:45   And it will be in the show notes.

01:06:49   Federico, you just need to get 3D printer, man.

01:06:52   Like you should get a 3D printer, I think.

01:06:55   Uh, yeah.

01:06:56   Because surely most of these things you can just buy the printer file.

01:07:00   And then you can have to deal with the whole like place to place to place to place.

01:07:04   And you can put it in your garage or whatever garage.

01:07:06   Yeah, I should do it.

01:07:07   Garage.

01:07:07   Yeah.

01:07:09   Yeah, I should probably do it.

01:07:11   At some point I will consider it because you can't buy the files.

01:07:13   Yeah, because all these mods that you do, like, because clearly you're in this world now, right?

01:07:17   Like you are, I mean, you, you, you are, you've been mod curious.

01:07:20   Now you're like full on mod.

01:07:23   That's you.

01:07:23   You're a full on mod.

01:07:25   You're, you're always modded.

01:07:26   Mod left, right and center.

01:07:27   And so I figured, you know, speak to Steven.

01:07:31   He knows about VR, VR 3D printing and you should, I think you should do it.

01:07:35   Yeah.

01:07:36   And like the final thing I wanted to say is that doing this, um, like I said, I wrote about it,

01:07:43   but I have been using it for a few weeks and, and it's, I'm looking at my vision program.

01:07:47   Now it's still what I'm using.

01:07:48   It makes me use the vision pro a lot more and it makes me enjoy the vision pro a lot more.

01:07:53   Uh, because I figured that, you know, before, before the vision pro announcement, when it

01:07:59   became clear that Apple was going to do a VR headset, uh, but if you go back to a few years

01:08:04   ago, we were all really excited about the idea of Apple doing glasses, like actual glasses.

01:08:09   And then, uh, we understood that that product is still pretty much a ways out, but these

01:08:15   accessories, they let me use the vision pro as basically giant, heavy, really thick glasses,

01:08:24   um, without the light seal.

01:08:26   And that's what I wanted.

01:08:28   Like I, I want to have something that is in AR mode all the time in pass-through mode all

01:08:33   the time.

01:08:34   And that's the product I wanted.

01:08:35   I think the environments and the immersive video, like, like all that stuff is fun, but

01:08:41   mostly I just want to use this thing as a computer.

01:08:44   And if I want to use it as a computer every afternoon, when I'm working, I want to be

01:08:48   in pass-through mode and I don't want to be isolated and using it like this.

01:08:52   It makes me enjoy like the purchase a lot more.

01:08:57   And ultimately, you know, you gotta be happy with something that you buy, especially something

01:09:00   that is so expensive.

01:09:01   And so I think I've found a way to be, to be happier than I was with the light seal.

01:09:07   I love it.

01:09:08   I love that you're tinkering with it.

01:09:09   I ordered some stuff.

01:09:11   I'm going to try the dual solo knit band.

01:09:14   Nice.

01:09:14   Nice.

01:09:15   The clips you need, there's a different version.

01:09:19   I think you mentioned this for the, if you're using a developer strap or not.

01:09:23   It's this, yeah, that's the Solo Top Dev, which I have because I do have a developer

01:09:29   strap hoping that eventually it'll get more functionalities than what it basically right

01:09:35   now it does nothing.

01:09:37   So, but if Apple ever allows for, allows for like Thunderbolt devices or ethernet, I'm

01:09:42   going to go back to using the developer strap every day.

01:09:45   Right now I'm just back to the regular straps.

01:09:48   Same.

01:09:49   I had it on for a little while doing some stuff in Widget Smith and it was like, if

01:09:53   you're not using it, it just gets in the way.

01:09:55   And I even tried like, what if I had like a little piece of Velcro and like, so it wasn't

01:10:00   flapping around and I just ended up swapping it, swapping it back.

01:10:04   But I suspect that thing may learn some new tricks at some point.

01:10:07   It's like having a weird tech ponytail, but like on the side of your head.

01:10:12   That's a side pony.

01:10:14   Side pony.

01:10:16   I got my side pony dongle.

01:10:17   Yeah.

01:10:19   It's kind of weird when it's just flapping around like that and you're not using it.

01:10:23   And even when you are using it, what it does is like, it's maybe faster when you're taking

01:10:28   screenshots with Reality Composer, but like, Wi-Fi also works.

01:10:32   So whatever.

01:10:32   Yeah.

01:10:33   Yeah.

01:10:34   And it, you know, it, you're drumming through some hoops, but it does, it does work.

01:10:38   Well, I think that does it for this week.

01:10:43   If you want to read more about some of the stuff we talked about, check out the notes.

01:10:47   They're in your podcast player.

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01:11:42   You can find Federico.

01:11:44   He's the editor in chief of maxstories.net.

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01:11:58   Mike works on a whole bunch of stuff across the network.

01:12:02   He also does amazing work over at Cortex brand.

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01:12:29   possible.

01:12:30   Thanks to our members and until next time, say goodbye.

01:12:32   Arrivederci.

01:12:34   Cheerio.

01:12:35   Bye y'all.

01:12:36   Please look outside the window and see what you see.