495: The Boy Who Cried iPad


00:00:00   [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:00:03   From Real FM, this is Connected, episode 495.

00:00:11   Today's show is brought to you by our three excellent sponsors,

00:00:14   Ecamm, Zuck, Docking, Squarespace.

00:00:16   I'm one of your co-hosts, Federico Vittucci,

00:00:18   and it's my pleasure to introduce Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:21   Hello, Steven.

00:00:22   Hello, Federico.

00:00:23   How are you?

00:00:24   I'm doing fantastic.

00:00:25   Thank you.

00:00:25   Good.

00:00:26   I'm glad to hear that.

00:00:27   And we are also joined by Mike Hurley.

00:00:30   Hello, governors.

00:00:31   Hello, sir.

00:00:34   Yes, sir.

00:00:36   We'll start the show with some follow up.

00:00:37   Yes.

00:00:38   OK.

00:00:39   Comes from Keegan.

00:00:40   Keegan writes in first and says, I'm a classical musician--

00:00:43   cellist-- who uses an iPad Pro 12.9 inch from reading my sheet

00:00:48   music.

00:00:49   Paper-like screen protector is great for reducing glare

00:00:52   when my iPad is on a music stand,

00:00:54   so I would be tempted by a nano-textured iPad Pro.

00:00:58   I would like to just give a quick aside here

00:01:00   for something I didn't realize in like six days.

00:01:03   It can't be nano-textured because you can't touch that.

00:01:05   But let's just call it matte screen iPad Pro.

00:01:09   Of course, my iPad is basically a glorified PDF viewer,

00:01:13   so I'm probably more tempted by a 12.9 inch iPad Air

00:01:17   to save some money.

00:01:19   This is good.

00:01:20   The main reason I wanted to talk about this is for that idea.

00:01:23   This, from Keegan, kind of sparked a thought in my mind.

00:01:27   Well, I wonder if the existence of a bigger iPad Air, which

00:01:31   may come at some point-- it still has not--

00:01:33   would actually take away more of the Pro market

00:01:37   than the Plus phone takes from the Max phone.

00:01:40   Yes.

00:01:40   And in fact, this is quite perfect

00:01:43   because I have follow up from my real life that is very much

00:01:48   about what you just said, Mike.

00:01:50   So Sylvia is studying for a new advanced course

00:01:55   that she needs to teach dance and Pilates and all

00:02:00   that sort of stuff.

00:02:01   And so she has these video courses

00:02:03   that she needs to follow.

00:02:05   And so she asked me this week, hey,

00:02:07   what's the best way for me to follow along with these videos?

00:02:09   And mind you, these are like two hour long videos

00:02:12   that she needs to study and take notes on.

00:02:14   And she was like, should I use my MacBook Pro,

00:02:17   or maybe is it time that I try an iPad again?

00:02:21   And so I was like, yeah, you can try an iPad.

00:02:24   Were you trying to play it really cool there?

00:02:26   Like, you're the iPad guy.

00:02:29   Be like, you don't want to come in too strong.

00:02:31   She's like, yeah, I mean, I guess.

00:02:33   You got to play cool with it.

00:02:34   Yeah, because I'm sure that in Federico's family life,

00:02:38   the answer to many questions is, why not just use an iPad?

00:02:43   I'm sure this comes up a lot.

00:02:45   Or let me cut open a MacBook Air for you.

00:02:48   Yeah, no, if I seem too eager with her of anything,

00:02:52   like she's going to be immediately turned off.

00:02:54   You know?

00:02:55   That's a different thing.

00:02:57   That's a problem.

00:02:58   You know, I don't sound too excited about an iPad.

00:03:04   It's like, yeah, sure.

00:03:08   You like rip open like your trench coat

00:03:14   and it's just iPads all taped on the inside.

00:03:16   It's like, I got a bunch for you to choose from right here.

00:03:18   I literally have a section in storage.

00:03:21   Like we have a storage box downstairs.

00:03:24   And like I have a whole section just iPads.

00:03:26   I have like six different iPads or something.

00:03:29   So anyway, I'm like, yeah, I'm going to go grab you an iPad,

00:03:32   reset it, and set it up for you.

00:03:34   And so I gave her the latest iPad Air that I have,

00:03:39   which is the fourth gen iPad Air, I believe.

00:03:42   And so she used it for a couple of days.

00:03:44   So I'm going to skip ahead.

00:03:46   Spoiler alert, she went back to the MacBook Pro

00:03:49   as the main device to take notes.

00:03:53   And a couple of interesting points here.

00:03:54   So she's using free form in a really cool way.

00:03:58   She has the video on one side

00:04:00   and a free form board on the other.

00:04:03   And she's taking all kinds of like cool looking visual notes.

00:04:08   She's got like sticky notes and text boxes

00:04:10   and a bunch of handwritten notes with a pencil.

00:04:12   She's got colored arrows and shapes.

00:04:15   Like it looks very cool.

00:04:17   And it's like, yeah, that's a perfect use of free form.

00:04:20   She tried the iPad.

00:04:22   And within an hour of trying an iPad Air,

00:04:25   so this is the iPad Air with the magic keyboard,

00:04:28   like the latest version of an iPad Air.

00:04:32   She said within an hour,

00:04:34   this is nice because it's much lighter

00:04:37   and portable than a Mac, but the screen is too small.

00:04:40   So there you go.

00:04:41   The comment about like a bigger iPad Air,

00:04:44   I think it would be interesting for a lot of people.

00:04:47   She said, "Split View multitasking on this device,

00:04:52   it's much better than Split View on a Mac,"

00:04:57   which is the weird full screen thing.

00:05:00   She saw Stage Manager

00:05:03   and immediately went back to Split View.

00:05:07   Like she hated like all the windows moving around

00:05:10   and like all the weird sizes and all of that.

00:05:12   But then her biggest comment is that,

00:05:16   like besides wanting a larger iPad Air

00:05:20   because the screen was still too small,

00:05:22   she said using an iPad feels better

00:05:27   compared to the last time I tried it,

00:05:30   which was like a couple of years ago.

00:05:32   But I am surprised that there are still so many things

00:05:36   that are like behind macOS.

00:05:40   Like a very simple thing.

00:05:42   She was looking for like a button in Safari

00:05:47   that wasn't there and the Mac version has it

00:05:51   and the iPad version doesn't.

00:05:53   And there are like so many like things

00:05:55   that you can do in the Mac version of an application

00:05:59   that you cannot do in the iPad version.

00:06:02   And another example was like,

00:06:04   so on the Mac I have Finder and I have Dropbox in Finder

00:06:09   and I can just go there and a document syncs with Dropbox,

00:06:13   but I can also open it with Preview.

00:06:15   And so she asked me,

00:06:16   so two questions, is there a Preview on iPadOS

00:06:20   and can I do the same thing with Dropbox and Files?

00:06:23   And I just looked at it and I was like,

00:06:25   now you know my pain,

00:06:28   because there's no Preview app on the iPad

00:06:31   and there's no Dropbox integration on the iPad.

00:06:34   And so she went back to the Mac and she told me,

00:06:38   I'm gonna try again in a couple of years.

00:06:40   And if they do a bigger iPad Air, that's gonna be nice.

00:06:45   But yeah, I just prefer working on a Mac.

00:06:47   So.

00:06:48   - Story is the oldest time at this point.

00:06:51   - I knew I liked her the moment I met her.

00:06:54   - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:06:56   Me too, even though it's challenging for me.

00:06:59   - The thing that I wonder is like,

00:07:01   do people want the biggest iPad or the best iPad?

00:07:08   Because I think with the iPhone,

00:07:12   people want the best iPhone.

00:07:13   Like they just want the best iPhone,

00:07:15   which is why the Pro phones sell the best.

00:07:18   And I think why the Macs, I think,

00:07:19   sells the best of all of them at the moment.

00:07:21   But nevertheless, it's why the Pro phones,

00:07:24   they sell better.

00:07:27   - And I'm just wondering if that's gonna be the case

00:07:30   for the iPad.

00:07:31   Like does the iPad Pro do well because people want

00:07:33   a big iPad or the best iPad?

00:07:35   I don't know.

00:07:36   - I think maybe people want the biggest iPad

00:07:39   that doesn't cost a fortune.

00:07:40   - I think that might be the case, yes.

00:07:42   - The one question on my mind right now,

00:07:45   as we are still waiting for this new iPad,

00:07:48   the question on my mind is,

00:07:50   what will Apple do to justify

00:07:53   potentially spending even more money?

00:07:55   I mean, in Europe, an iPad Pro is 2000 euros,

00:07:59   like in a pretty standard configuration

00:08:02   with a magic keyboard and everything.

00:08:04   What does Apple do to,

00:08:06   I mean, it's really quite a task to justify

00:08:09   at that price an iPad Pro

00:08:10   for the trajectory that iPadOS is on.

00:08:14   But if those prices get even higher,

00:08:17   what is the story there besides,

00:08:19   oh yeah, it's got a nicer display, right?

00:08:23   That is the one question on my mind right now.

00:08:25   - Maybe this is why they haven't released it yet

00:08:27   'cause they're not sure.

00:08:28   They're still working it out, you know?

00:08:29   It's like, oh, what's the story, man?

00:08:31   What is it?

00:08:32   I don't know.

00:08:33   - What are we typing in this press release?

00:08:34   - They're just all sitting there in a warehouse unit

00:08:38   and they're just waiting.

00:08:39   - They're looking at them, be like,

00:08:40   ah, guys, I got it, I got it.

00:08:42   Maybe, no, I don't have it.

00:08:45   - And that's why the phone, I think,

00:08:47   is an interesting counterpoint

00:08:49   because the Max, the Pro Max has real differences, right?

00:08:54   You get the extra camera, you get the different build.

00:08:58   It's faster.

00:09:00   And so far on the iPad,

00:09:01   like yeah, there's the screen and the 12.9,

00:09:04   but honestly, I don't think anyone

00:09:07   who's like cross shopping these cares about,

00:09:09   does it have the M1 or the M2 or the M3?

00:09:12   Like, I don't think the silicon is enough

00:09:14   to justify the stratification.

00:09:17   So it's gotta be something else.

00:09:19   And I guess we'll find out one day

00:09:21   if they decide to release these things.

00:09:23   - Someday.

00:09:24   - Someday.

00:09:25   - The Department of Justice sued Apple.

00:09:28   - This is a follow up.

00:09:29   - I don't think, well, 'cause, I mean, it is kind of.

00:09:33   I've put it here because it's like,

00:09:34   you kind of can't not mention it,

00:09:36   but I don't think we're gonna talk about it.

00:09:38   - No. - No.

00:09:39   - So there are places where you can go.

00:09:41   One True John did a great job putting his thing together.

00:09:46   I'll link to Jason's article.

00:09:48   I'll also link to Upgrade where we spoke about it.

00:09:50   I just, how much are we gonna talk about it?

00:09:54   I don't think we need to talk about it.

00:09:55   - Yeah, I mean, just listen to Upgrade,

00:09:58   read the story by John, and, you know,

00:10:01   what else is there to say?

00:10:03   We're just waiting to see what happens.

00:10:05   I think Apple obviously will have a response

00:10:07   within the next couple of months,

00:10:08   and then it'll be a long strung up battle of multiple years.

00:10:13   So fun times, yeah.

00:10:17   - Oh, and also the European Union is like, no, Apple.

00:10:22   It's not good enough.

00:10:24   They're investigating them.

00:10:26   Because, and so like, maybe, fingers crossed,

00:10:29   how long have we got until we have to grade that draft?

00:10:32   - I thought it was due today.

00:10:33   - No, no, no, no, no.

00:10:34   - No, it's in April. - It's on.

00:10:36   - Yeah, April 17th.

00:10:38   - Oh, okay. - Okay, fingers crossed.

00:10:39   - Okay, okay, okay. - Just one of the things

00:10:40   they're looking into is the,

00:10:41   it seems like the core technology fee, so.

00:10:44   - We have time, we have time.

00:10:45   Okay, okay.

00:10:47   - Big news, VVVDC 24 has been announced.

00:10:52   - VVVDC, okay.

00:10:53   - The World Wide Developers Conference.

00:10:56   - The World Wide.

00:10:57   - Ah-ah!

00:10:59   - That is, did you see the,

00:11:04   obviously we're joking about the logo,

00:11:07   but did you see that people are making fun of the fact

00:11:10   that maybe it was a logo designed with AI?

00:11:13   - Yeah, it was.

00:11:14   - That's typically, but it's funny because-

00:11:17   - That would be funny.

00:11:18   - Because AI tools typically get the two Ws

00:11:21   next to each other wrong.

00:11:23   - Well, they just get all words.

00:11:24   Like if you're just like put in a word,

00:11:25   it's like just random nonsense that it puts in.

00:11:29   But that is, I will say, that is a funny thought.

00:11:31   I think you've been serious, but that's pretty funny.

00:11:33   - If you think about it,

00:11:34   the W is like the hands of the alphabet.

00:11:39   And AI can't do either.

00:11:40   - This isn't the first time they did,

00:11:44   like last year it looked like this, right?

00:11:45   At least on the merchandise. - Did it?

00:11:47   - Like I have a tote bag and it looks like that.

00:11:49   - Hmm.

00:11:51   - They joined the Ws together.

00:11:52   Maybe it's just getting smaller over time.

00:11:55   I like it though.

00:11:57   The logo is fun.

00:11:59   It's very reminiscent of older logos.

00:12:01   Like I feel like they've used this kind of style a lot,

00:12:03   like the kind of neon-y, shimmery stuff.

00:12:05   - It's very similar to last year.

00:12:08   - Yeah.

00:12:10   So funny thing, last year they announced it

00:12:12   as we were going live with connected

00:12:14   and we had to like jump off.

00:12:16   It happened for remaster yesterday.

00:12:17   So we were all sitting down to record

00:12:20   and then it dropped and then Porsche had to wait a while

00:12:22   while Federico mainly was doing things

00:12:25   and I was reading things.

00:12:26   - Same with MacPow Reasers actually.

00:12:28   - Oh really?

00:12:29   - We were hitting record and it came out

00:12:31   and I was like, no, I gotta go like,

00:12:34   fix a hotel room situation and then came back and recorded.

00:12:38   - Yeah, 'cause it wasn't the week

00:12:39   we thought it was gonna be, right?

00:12:41   - I thought it'd be June 3rd

00:12:43   and that is the week of the 10th instead.

00:12:46   So, but it's fine.

00:12:47   - My memory is that you sounded very confident last week.

00:12:50   - I felt very confident last week

00:12:52   but this means I don't have to travel

00:12:53   on my wedding anniversary so that's always good.

00:12:55   - That is actually good news.

00:12:57   - Good news.

00:12:58   So yeah, June 10th, there is gonna be

00:13:01   a special event at Apple Park just one day.

00:13:05   - What do you think it's gonna be?

00:13:08   - I don't know, maybe paintball or something.

00:13:10   - Say special event.

00:13:12   - Can you imagine?

00:13:13   We open the center of the ring.

00:13:15   Last developer standing, they get a 3% cut difference

00:13:18   on the developer rights.

00:13:20   - I think it's gonna be a public reading of the DMA.

00:13:26   - Could be.

00:13:28   - We decided to respond.

00:13:30   Maybe it's like, we were just going now,

00:13:34   like there are new developer terms

00:13:36   and if you stay inside of Apple Park, you can have them

00:13:38   but if you leave, then you have to go back to the old one.

00:13:41   - Interesting, interesting.

00:13:42   - What if it's like a Renaissance fair?

00:13:49   - Okay.

00:13:50   - They're leaning into what California thinks of Europe,

00:13:53   I guess, Renaissance fair, there's food and stuff

00:13:56   but there's also games you can play.

00:13:59   Like you can like ring toss and horseshoes and stuff

00:14:03   but if you're too good at it, they take 50 cents

00:14:07   for like every ring you get on it.

00:14:09   The core technology feeds in there.

00:14:10   - The more points you earn, the less money you make

00:14:14   at the end of it.

00:14:16   - Interesting, interesting, interesting idea

00:14:17   for the Renaissance fair.

00:14:18   I could say Tim Cook as a town crier, honestly.

00:14:21   - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:14:23   - Bill Schiller's in the stocks after arguing with Epic

00:14:26   but also, so there's that but then there's also

00:14:30   like another Renaissance fair, like two doors down

00:14:33   that's not as good but has different things going on.

00:14:38   It's like the alternative Renaissance fair.

00:14:41   - That's good, didn't know where you're going with that.

00:14:43   - I understand now.

00:14:45   So I'm gonna make the executive decision to move on.

00:14:48   - Yes, thank you.

00:14:49   - There is a new Apple developer YouTube account

00:14:53   where they're gonna actually this year post the sessions.

00:14:56   There's some stuff up there from WWDC 23

00:14:59   and some other fun videos that are up there

00:15:02   and they're gonna be posting them there

00:15:04   which I think is really great.

00:15:05   Like why not?

00:15:06   - Much better to use YouTube and YouTube compatible apps

00:15:11   than being stuck inside the developer app.

00:15:13   I know this is gonna be very convenient for me

00:15:15   to organize my research, yeah.

00:15:17   - And as content creators,

00:15:18   we all get a very short period of time

00:15:20   where we get to go to this official Apple YouTube account

00:15:23   and feel good that the videos are like 300 views per video

00:15:26   'cause obviously that won't be the case.

00:15:29   Next WWDC comes around but like for right now

00:15:31   we can all be like, oh look,

00:15:32   we get more views on YouTube than Apple.

00:15:34   - Look at this cute account with 15K subscribers.

00:15:37   - Try again, you know.

00:15:39   But I'm sure by the time WWDC 24 comes around,

00:15:43   it will be very different.

00:15:44   I think it's great that they're putting this stuff

00:15:45   on YouTube, like it makes it more accessible

00:15:47   and easier for people rather than having to use

00:15:50   the Apple developer app.

00:15:51   It will also surface this content to more people

00:15:54   which will be good.

00:15:55   It might more frequently show up in search results

00:15:58   and stuff like that for people who are actually looking

00:15:59   for this exact stuff.

00:16:01   So I think this is good.

00:16:02   I like this, I like them going out

00:16:04   and like meeting people where they are

00:16:06   rather than making people come to them.

00:16:08   Like I think that's what WWDC has been about

00:16:10   for the last three years, four years now.

00:16:13   And I think that this is another example of that.

00:16:15   So I actually think all jokes aside,

00:16:17   this is like a really good thing to exist

00:16:19   because why make it more complicated for people

00:16:22   than otherwise?

00:16:23   So I think it's really good.

00:16:24   Greg Josuac said that WWDC will be absolutely incredible.

00:16:32   So there you go.

00:16:35   - Capitalize.

00:16:36   I love that the Jaws has the sense of humor

00:16:38   of a connected segment.

00:16:40   - Yeah.

00:16:42   - Do you know?

00:16:42   - Yeah.

00:16:43   - Which I appreciate.

00:16:44   I mean, okay, AI, cool.

00:16:48   We'll see.

00:16:49   So I'm going, Steven is going.

00:16:53   - Yep.

00:16:54   - Mike is not going.

00:16:55   - I'm leaving it like a little open.

00:16:58   My plan is no, but some things might change

00:17:01   and I might be able to.

00:17:03   So like--

00:17:04   - Okay, okay.

00:17:05   - Is the option.

00:17:06   - Yeah, I'm probably like 80% no.

00:17:10   - Okay.

00:17:11   - But we'll see.

00:17:12   - Okay, we'll see with that 20%.

00:17:16   - This episode of the show is made possible by Ecamm.

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00:19:02   - All right, folks, it is time for a brand new segment

00:19:09   of our favorite new part of the show, Teach Italian.

00:19:13   - It's a new segment of this segment?

00:19:15   - Well, no, it's a new installment of Teach Italian.

00:19:16   - Ah, ah, wow.

00:19:18   - So first of all, we have some follow-up from Sam saying,

00:19:23   "I just got a point in a pop quiz thanks to Teach Italian.

00:19:25   Keep it up, Federico.

00:19:26   You're changing the world six letters at a time."

00:19:29   I am very glad to hear this, Sam.

00:19:31   I kind of want to know which letter it was.

00:19:35   And also JT asks, "Does the WW at the top

00:19:39   of this year's WWDC artwork constitute an Italian tripla V?"

00:19:44   - Wait, 'cause you got double v, right?

00:19:48   - Triple v.

00:19:49   - So it will be tripla vu, okay?

00:19:51   - Tripla vu. - Yeah, I get it.

00:19:52   - More than a double vu.

00:19:53   - Yeah, okay, yeah.

00:19:55   I mean, we would just say, so I also got a bunch of questions

00:20:00   yesterday from people like,

00:20:01   "How do you pronounce WWDC in Italy?"

00:20:04   - Oh yeah, I actually wanted to make that request to you

00:20:06   today that you could teach us WWDC, 24.

00:20:08   - So I actually don't know, because even when I speak

00:20:12   in Italian, I always say WWDC.

00:20:15   If I were to guess,

00:20:17   double vu, double vu.

00:20:21   I mean, it sounds awful when you actually-

00:20:23   - Yeah, but I want you to say it.

00:20:25   How does it go?

00:20:25   - Double v, double vu, dici.

00:20:27   Something like that?

00:20:29   - Dici is nicer than DC.

00:20:31   - Dici, yeah, it's dici.

00:20:33   - We should just call it, wait, so like,

00:20:36   how do you say W again?

00:20:38   - Double vu.

00:20:39   - So it would be like, "Dop, dop."

00:20:42   - Dop, dop, dop, dop, dici.

00:20:44   (laughing)

00:20:46   All right, so today, today, friends,

00:20:49   we are going to move up the scale of Italian language

00:20:53   and we are starting with the personal pronouns.

00:20:56   So, you know, it's I, you, he, she, they, we, you, they.

00:21:01   We're going to do the Italian versions.

00:21:05   Now, I gotta say that in terms of,

00:21:10   so unfortunately, Italian, like other Latin-based languages,

00:21:15   is a very gender-based language.

00:21:17   - I hate this so much.

00:21:19   - Yes, yes, me too. - So like,

00:21:21   I'm looking at your list here.

00:21:22   This is basically what is Romanian too,

00:21:25   like down to the actual spelling in some of them.

00:21:29   It just frustrates me so much, the gendered languages.

00:21:32   - Yep.

00:21:33   - It's just so unnecessary.

00:21:36   - I know, I know, but,

00:21:37   and I think the modern generation has thankfully

00:21:41   been trying to modernize this

00:21:45   by adding the Italian equivalent of the singular they,

00:21:50   but in, you know, truth be told, in real life,

00:21:54   if you use the singular they,

00:21:57   unfortunately, people look at you in Italy very strange,

00:22:03   especially people from the older generation.

00:22:05   I don't care, personally.

00:22:06   - The issue is, if we care if people are not familiar,

00:22:09   it's like you are gendering objects.

00:22:12   - Yes, yes, we gender everything.

00:22:14   - It's not just people or animals or like living things.

00:22:18   It is actually inanimate objects are gendered,

00:22:21   which is very peculiar to me.

00:22:22   - So we have gendered articles, like the article they,

00:22:27   like if you want to say the apple, right?

00:22:29   The they, there's a gendered version.

00:22:36   For example, apple as a word in Italian,

00:22:39   mela, is a feminine word.

00:22:42   And whereas something like computer,

00:22:45   it's a masculine word.

00:22:48   So like ill computer and lamella, which is insane,

00:22:52   but that's the way it is in this language.

00:22:55   So I have taken some liberty to teach you

00:22:59   the modernized version of personal pronouns.

00:23:02   - Oh, okay.

00:23:04   - All right, so I'm gonna read you,

00:23:07   and then we're gonna learn.

00:23:09   Io tu lui lei loro,

00:23:13   noi voi loro.

00:23:17   - Okay. - All right.

00:23:18   - Can I try and guess some?

00:23:20   - Yes. - Can I guess?

00:23:21   - Well, it's in order, so it's pretty easy to guess.

00:23:24   - Well, but not necessarily, like I mean,

00:23:26   but in order of what?

00:23:27   Io is I, tu is you.

00:23:31   I'm assuming, is it lui lei loro is they?

00:23:36   - So it's he, she, they.

00:23:38   - Okay, noi is?

00:23:41   - You all, plural you?

00:23:45   - No.

00:23:46   - 'Cause I know voi would be we, right?

00:23:48   - No, no. - No?

00:23:50   - You have it backwards.

00:23:52   - Okay, noi is we, voi is they?

00:23:54   - No, voi is you, plural you.

00:23:57   - Y'all, it's y'all.

00:23:59   - Y'all, it's y'all, yes.

00:24:01   I don't know what esse and loro would be.

00:24:02   - No, so, okay, so just say loro

00:24:06   as the third plural person.

00:24:09   So the antiquated versions of,

00:24:15   so the third person, right?

00:24:17   He, she, they, or in Italian, lui, lei, loro.

00:24:22   The antiquated form that was taught to me

00:24:24   in elementary school was ele and ela,

00:24:28   which is just incredibly awful to say.

00:24:32   Nobody speaks like this anymore.

00:24:34   And similarly, nobody says instead of loro,

00:24:38   nobody says esse, which is like nobody talks like that.

00:24:44   Nobody talks like that anymore.

00:24:45   So disregard the antiquated form.

00:24:49   And once again, so I, it's io.

00:24:52   You, it's io, yes, perfect.

00:24:54   You, it's tu.

00:24:57   Yeah, the third person, he, she, they, it's lui, lei, loro.

00:25:04   - So in he, she, they, so lui is he, lei is she,

00:25:09   loro is they.

00:25:10   - Yep.

00:25:11   - Okay.

00:25:12   - Steven.

00:25:14   - Lui, lei, loro.

00:25:16   - That's pretty good.

00:25:18   We, it's noi.

00:25:21   - Noi.

00:25:21   - Noi.

00:25:22   - Yep.

00:25:23   You plural is voi.

00:25:25   - Voi.

00:25:26   - Voi.

00:25:27   - Yep.

00:25:28   And they is loro.

00:25:31   - Loro.

00:25:32   - Why are we doing that one twice?

00:25:33   - Singular and plural they.

00:25:35   - Yep, it's the singular and plural.

00:25:37   - Oh, but it's the same?

00:25:38   - It's the same, yeah.

00:25:39   - Okay.

00:25:40   - We basically implemented,

00:25:42   we like the modern generation basically stole

00:25:46   the singular they from the English language.

00:25:49   - Okay, okay, okay.

00:25:50   - You know, they, like a bunch of people

00:25:52   tried to come up with another pronoun

00:25:53   and I think it's just more elegant

00:25:55   to copy the English strategy.

00:25:57   - I think, yeah, I mean, especially 'cause

00:25:59   it's probably being influenced by American English,

00:26:04   I think primarily, that it just makes sense to copy it,

00:26:09   the style, right?

00:26:11   - Yep.

00:26:11   - So there you go, these are the personal pronouns

00:26:14   and next week we're gonna go with other variations

00:26:17   of these pronouns and then we'll move up to verbs.

00:26:20   But thank you for following.

00:26:21   - We just give it up on numbers?

00:26:23   - Oh no, we're gonna do the numbers next,

00:26:25   but first I want you to understand, you know, these parts.

00:26:30   Yeah.

00:26:31   - Thank you, professor.

00:26:32   - You're welcome.

00:26:33   - I had a VisionOS guest mode experience

00:26:39   that I wanted to share with you both.

00:26:41   I don't know about you, but this is the first time that I,

00:26:44   so we went to dinner with some friends,

00:26:47   they are two teenage kids and they wanted

00:26:49   to try the Vision Pro, so I said I'd bring it over.

00:26:52   And this is the first time that I have done a VisionOS,

00:26:55   like guest experience for multiple people.

00:26:59   I don't know if either of you have had this experience yet.

00:27:02   - Yes.

00:27:02   - Because really, Adina tried it like once or twice

00:27:05   and then that was it, 'cause it stayed at the studio,

00:27:07   so it's, you know, she hasn't really,

00:27:10   I mean, she hasn't really expressed a desire

00:27:12   to really wanna try it anymore, but like it hasn't come up.

00:27:15   And I had like a few things that I just wanted to go over.

00:27:19   I'm sure this is well-trodden ground by now,

00:27:21   but it was my first time of it in this kind of experience,

00:27:25   so I wanted to share it.

00:27:26   The way in which you start guest mode is in control center

00:27:29   and you like, you know, activate guest mode

00:27:31   and you have some settings, which are good,

00:27:32   like how would you like the audio to play?

00:27:34   You can, 'cause you can mirror, right?

00:27:36   So you can choose to mirror to another device.

00:27:39   It would not mirror to an iPad mini.

00:27:41   Don't know why, but just wouldn't.

00:27:45   - That's how they're doing it in the store.

00:27:47   I wonder if they're doing something special there.

00:27:49   - Are they using a mini, not an iPad?

00:27:52   - I thought it was a mini, I could be wrong, but.

00:27:55   - 'Cause I know it will mirror to a regular iPad.

00:27:58   I could not get it to mirror to my iPad mini.

00:28:00   I don't know why.

00:28:01   So I could get it to do a Mac or an Apple TV.

00:28:05   Apple TV, great, by the way,

00:28:07   for a large group guest mode experience, right?

00:28:10   To do it to the TV.

00:28:11   And then you then get the option

00:28:15   of how you want like apps to work.

00:28:19   So you can either say, let people use everything,

00:28:24   or let them use the apps that are currently open,

00:28:28   which is, as a decision,

00:28:30   I don't even know how you get there to that decision.

00:28:37   Like, how is that the choice?

00:28:39   Like, people can use all of the apps

00:28:41   that I currently have open?

00:28:43   Like, what is that as a decision?

00:28:45   Like, why can't it just be everything

00:28:48   or what I choose from a list?

00:28:50   And then just show me a list.

00:28:52   - My only thought there is that maybe you wanna show them

00:28:57   three apps, so you like open them

00:29:00   and then you can hand it over

00:29:01   and they have access just to that.

00:29:02   Like, maybe you wanna walk them through something,

00:29:06   you know, a bit more curated.

00:29:07   I agree that it's weird, but maybe that's the reasoning.

00:29:10   - I mean, you could populate the list

00:29:13   with the apps that are currently open, right?

00:29:15   It's already checked.

00:29:16   Like, because it's like, I'm like,

00:29:20   well, I don't know what they're gonna want.

00:29:21   So I have to open like every possible app

00:29:24   someone might wanna try?

00:29:26   It's super weird to me.

00:29:28   Or even just like all apps except these ones,

00:29:31   'cause that's really what I care about.

00:29:32   Like, no messages, no mail,

00:29:34   'cause I just don't need people getting all up in there.

00:29:37   And I'll leave it at that.

00:29:38   Very strange to me that the way that you start that off,

00:29:41   like, sure, the way you describe it,

00:29:43   I can understand a scenario.

00:29:45   But like, that is not a great way to do this in my opinion.

00:29:48   Like in my opinion, 'cause then I'm like opening 20 apps

00:29:52   at first, no, silly.

00:29:53   The fact that video does not work for anyone

00:29:57   when you're mirroring is ridiculous, ridiculous.

00:30:00   Like I understand why for the sake and sanctity

00:30:04   of copyright, you should not allow for mirroring.

00:30:07   But like, why can't the person wearing the Vision Pro

00:30:11   watch the content?

00:30:13   And I just don't see it.

00:30:14   Like I just see a black screen.

00:30:16   That is so bad as a user experience, like terrible.

00:30:20   Even Apple stuff, right?

00:30:22   Like fine, Disney wants to be that way, whatever.

00:30:25   But what about the immersive video that Apple makes?

00:30:27   Like you can't watch that.

00:30:29   Like the person in the Vision Pro can't watch it.

00:30:32   And I do think for this device,

00:30:35   it is helpful to be able to mirror constantly

00:30:38   because sometimes people get a little bit lost

00:30:42   and you wanna help them, right?

00:30:43   - Yeah.

00:30:44   - But seeing people's reactions in general was amazing.

00:30:47   I mean, the crowd pleasers were encounter dinosaurs,

00:30:51   obviously.

00:30:52   - Right.

00:30:53   - The environments in general,

00:30:55   people just liked going from one to the other to the other.

00:30:58   Panoramas as well.

00:30:59   I had my friend like, I was like,

00:31:00   air drop me some of your favorite panoramas.

00:31:03   And then they were just putting on like,

00:31:04   "Oh my God, that's great."

00:31:05   - That's a good idea to give a demo.

00:31:07   I would not have thought about,

00:31:09   send me some of your photo.

00:31:11   That's really smart.

00:31:12   - Yeah, 'cause I figured my panoramas don't mean anything.

00:31:14   You know?

00:31:15   It's just like, "Oh, look, it's a panorama, like great."

00:31:18   And I was struck again by a couple of things.

00:31:22   One, just how delightful people find the experience.

00:31:25   Like it reminds me of how it made me feel, right?

00:31:28   The first time that I got to try it.

00:31:30   Like it really is kind of mind blowing at first

00:31:32   and you can get used to it.

00:31:34   But also just seeing people of mixed interest

00:31:39   in computer usage,

00:31:41   immediately understand the interaction method.

00:31:44   Like looking and pinching.

00:31:46   Like it takes like a minute or two,

00:31:48   especially the eye track,

00:31:50   like the eye tracking set up is like, is great.

00:31:52   'Cause you do it so many times

00:31:54   that you understand exactly what you need to do

00:31:56   to do the pinching to get it to work.

00:31:59   But how quickly people get to understand eye tracking,

00:32:03   that's like look where you need to go and just tap.

00:32:05   Like people get it very, very quickly in my experience.

00:32:09   So yeah, I think that again, it was like really nice to see

00:32:12   'cause I left that experience being like,

00:32:14   "Yeah, this is incredible technology."

00:32:18   I mean, we can say what we want for it's like

00:32:21   developer adoption and how many apps there are

00:32:24   and da, da, da, da, da, da.

00:32:25   But like you can naturally assume something like that

00:32:27   can be solved over time.

00:32:28   But the foundational technology and interaction

00:32:31   is really, really, really solid.

00:32:33   And that's like the most important thing to get

00:32:35   in the beginning.

00:32:36   But yeah, guest mode could be a lot better

00:32:38   in a bunch of ways.

00:32:40   But I think the video mirroring

00:32:43   and the way in which you need to start guest mode

00:32:45   could do with some serious improvement in my opinion.

00:32:48   So, but it was cool.

00:32:49   - No, that's awesome.

00:32:52   You said they were teenage kids.

00:32:54   Like did they have experience with other headsets?

00:32:58   Do you know?

00:32:59   Like were they coming in with some experience?

00:33:02   - Yeah, they're very used to the Quest.

00:33:04   And like the initial comment was like,

00:33:06   "Oh my God, this is so much cooler looking than the Quest."

00:33:09   Right?

00:33:10   That was part one.

00:33:11   - It is.

00:33:12   - And then just part two, just like the quality level

00:33:16   is just, there's so far beyond.

00:33:19   Like one of them, like he was also a gamer, right?

00:33:23   Two, he was just like,

00:33:24   "Oh, this is gonna be like so good for games."

00:33:28   I didn't wanna break it to him

00:33:29   that there aren't really any.

00:33:31   But there could be.

00:33:33   And when there are, it could be pretty amazing.

00:33:36   But yeah, like they were very, very impressed by it.

00:33:39   - I just saw a headline that I think Alto's Adventure

00:33:41   is coming to Apple Arcade.

00:33:44   - That was in the Apple Arcade thing,

00:33:46   but that's just Alto's adventure in a window.

00:33:48   Like it's not, you know.

00:33:51   - Lame.

00:33:52   I wanted more.

00:33:54   - Yeah, that was in that Apple Arcade piece that came out

00:33:57   when we, one of the days that we were hoping for--

00:34:00   - One of the many days.

00:34:02   - Yeah, so every morning,

00:34:04   so we have a group thread with OTJ.

00:34:05   - Yeah.

00:34:06   - And--

00:34:07   - Every morning a blogger wakes up and knows

00:34:09   that they're waiting for an iPad Pro.

00:34:11   - That's right.

00:34:11   And so like the top of the hour

00:34:13   for a couple hours every morning,

00:34:14   I'm like, "Okay, is this it?"

00:34:16   And then it's just like silence and nothing happens.

00:34:19   - And then someone says, "Maybe in an hour."

00:34:20   - Yeah.

00:34:21   - We've, this has been us for like a month at this point.

00:34:25   - Maybe in an hour.

00:34:26   Hey, maybe at the top of the hour.

00:34:27   - Maybe in an hour, maybe in an hour, maybe in an hour.

00:34:30   But there was a thing where I came out of an appointment,

00:34:33   I think it was yesterday,

00:34:34   and Federico and John were like making a joke about like,

00:34:37   "Oh, look at this cool new iPad."

00:34:39   And they got me, I thought there was actually an iPad, so.

00:34:42   - Ha ha.

00:34:43   - Oh nice.

00:34:44   - More for me.

00:34:44   - That's mean.

00:34:45   - Well done.

00:34:46   - Yeah, you know, it happens sometimes.

00:34:47   - The boy who cried iPad.

00:34:49   - Yes, exactly.

00:34:50   - Exactly.

00:34:51   - Yeah, I'm not even buying an iPad

00:34:53   and I want them to come out.

00:34:55   - I do want one.

00:34:58   I do want one.

00:34:59   I want an OLED.

00:34:59   I really want an OLED iPad.

00:35:01   Like I think it would be great.

00:35:02   I do want one, but I'm just not sure

00:35:05   how long it's gonna take.

00:35:06   - I'm telling you, since I switched back to the Mini,

00:35:08   since I took it away from my kid and gave them an iPad Pro,

00:35:11   I just am loving it.

00:35:13   - Yeah, iPad Mini is awesome.

00:35:15   I mean, what I want is what they won't give me, right?

00:35:17   - OLED iPad Mini.

00:35:19   - OLED iPad Mini, yeah.

00:35:20   That's what I want, but I'm not getting that.

00:35:22   No one's giving me that, but I want it.

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00:37:22   - So according to the latest report by Mark Gurman,

00:37:28   not too many details, but basically Mark hinted

00:37:31   at the fact that in iOS 18, beyond the AI focus,

00:37:35   you know, with this artificial intelligence features

00:37:38   throughout the OS and the fact that Apple has been talking

00:37:41   to a bunch of AI companies to integrate

00:37:43   with their chatbots for generative AI features,

00:37:47   there's also going to be a more customizable home screen.

00:37:51   Now, we just know this.

00:37:52   There was no other detail from Mark about like,

00:37:55   what does it mean to have more customizable home screens?

00:37:58   But I wanted to talk about this because it seems like

00:38:03   this is one of the things that we have been talking about

00:38:05   for many, many years at this point.

00:38:07   Like the fact that the iOS home screen,

00:38:11   compared to what you can get on a variety

00:38:15   of Android devices, is pretty stale.

00:38:18   And, you know, people have been resorting

00:38:21   to all kinds of workarounds on iOS

00:38:25   to have things like blank icons or, you know,

00:38:28   to hide text labels from icons and, you know,

00:38:33   widgets that sort of fake having a transparent background,

00:38:37   like all sorts of hacks that by and large

00:38:40   are just not necessary on Android.

00:38:42   And I wanted to talk to you both about what you think

00:38:46   should be needed on iOS to offer

00:38:48   a more customizable home screen.

00:38:50   And I also want to share some thoughts of my own.

00:38:53   - I think it would be great for them

00:38:55   to adopt some new customization.

00:38:59   I will say I sent this article to Underscore on Sunday,

00:39:04   and he was like, "Well, there goes my summer."

00:39:07   Maybe, maybe not.

00:39:08   I guess we'll see how far they go.

00:39:10   But the home screen does feel stale.

00:39:12   Like there are elements of it.

00:39:14   I think the biggest thing is you gotta start

00:39:16   from the top left corner.

00:39:18   That's been the same since you could go into jiggle mode

00:39:22   for the very first time, like 13 years ago.

00:39:25   I like what they've done with widgets.

00:39:28   I like what they've done in other areas,

00:39:30   but I think they could continue to push it forward.

00:39:33   And I look forward to the iPad getting it in iPadOS 19.

00:39:37   So that's fun too.

00:39:39   - That'd be fun.

00:39:40   Yeah, I mean, the free placement thing is fine.

00:39:43   I think it will be great when we have it.

00:39:46   People will be excited about it.

00:39:48   I don't even know if I feel like I've been,

00:39:51   I don't think I could do it right now.

00:39:54   Like, 'cause I'm just so used to like,

00:39:57   over time I've just minimized my home screens

00:40:00   down to like just the apps, right?

00:40:02   It's always over time been about minimizing

00:40:05   how many home screens I have.

00:40:07   And so now, like my main home screen,

00:40:09   I wouldn't want a gap on it

00:40:10   'cause I don't have any gaps free.

00:40:13   You know what I mean?

00:40:13   I still full up, I need everything that's there.

00:40:15   So I don't know how I'll deal with that.

00:40:18   But I know it will be cool.

00:40:19   I know people are really gonna dig it.

00:40:21   So, and it will be nice to have the, a bit of flexibility.

00:40:24   I would like to see them do some interesting stuff

00:40:26   with wallpapers, but I don't know what.

00:40:29   Like I've always liked the idea of,

00:40:31   I feel like this happened at some point

00:40:34   where you could kind of have like live photos on the home

00:40:37   screen and that they would kind of animate a little bit.

00:40:41   - Is this still possible?

00:40:42   - Maybe they brought it back with the new stuff.

00:40:44   - But like nobody does it.

00:40:46   - I know it was on the lock screen.

00:40:47   Was it on the home screen too?

00:40:49   - Do you have to like press and hold?

00:40:51   - It wasn't the lock screen for sure.

00:40:53   Like, and it's a feature that Apple never really improved.

00:40:58   - So what I'm thinking of is like the dynamic wallpapers

00:41:01   that have existed on Android, stuff like that, right?

00:41:03   Like things like that people could make,

00:41:05   like stuff like that, I've always,

00:41:07   could be kind of interesting

00:41:09   just to add a little bit of something.

00:41:11   - Which Apple supports to a degree on the Mac.

00:41:14   Like in Sonoma, you have like all the moving ones

00:41:19   or like the Apple TV screensaver.

00:41:21   I'm not saying that they would go that far,

00:41:23   but having a dynamic wallpaper that would shift color

00:41:27   throughout the day or, you know, like have a landscape

00:41:31   that's daytime and the sun and nighttime,

00:41:34   you know, lit by moonlight, like that sort of stuff

00:41:35   I think would be really interesting.

00:41:37   And they're already doing it elsewhere, which is cool.

00:41:40   - So stuff like that would be kind of cool.

00:41:42   I feel like maybe I've kind of gotten a little bit

00:41:46   over the idea of home screen customer.

00:41:48   Like it's one of those things where like,

00:41:49   if wanted it for so long, like to have more,

00:41:52   and then I got widgets and it's like,

00:41:53   I'm just going to be happy with widgets.

00:41:55   So like maybe my mind is too closed to this now.

00:41:58   Can you open it for me, Federico?

00:41:59   - I don't know, still, I kind of,

00:42:01   so I have many thoughts on this.

00:42:02   I still think, first of all, that those widgets on,

00:42:05   like the interactive widgets are cool,

00:42:07   but they could be so much more.

00:42:09   Like the, and that's the reason I think why

00:42:12   I don't use those interactive widgets that much.

00:42:14   I mean, I don't use the interactivity

00:42:16   on the lock screen at all, but even on the home screen,

00:42:19   the shortcuts that I use, the widget that I use most

00:42:22   is the shortcuts one.

00:42:23   And that's because it's using a private API

00:42:26   that allows the shortcuts widget to present interfaces.

00:42:29   Like I want to have widgets on my iPhone,

00:42:32   on the home screen that let me type a note

00:42:35   and save it from the home screen, right?

00:42:38   And that's only possible with shortcuts right now,

00:42:40   because only shortcuts, and fun fact,

00:42:42   the contacts widget of all things,

00:42:46   they are the only widgets that can show you UI

00:42:52   and accept actual interactions with that UI

00:42:56   on the home screen.

00:42:57   That should be available to all third-party developers.

00:43:00   Like let me have a widget Smith, Steven,

00:43:02   I know that you're involved,

00:43:04   but still don't take this as a feature request.

00:43:07   And also you don't need to comment.

00:43:08   - No, take it as a feature request.

00:43:10   - Take it as a feature request,

00:43:11   but you don't need to comment.

00:43:12   But like, let me have a widget Smith widget

00:43:14   that lets me type out a quick note or a quick reminder

00:43:17   from the home screen without having to launch widget Smith.

00:43:20   So that's one of the things that they should do.

00:43:22   But also people would go absolutely wild

00:43:27   if they could have more control

00:43:29   over their home screen layouts.

00:43:31   Like I still see, it's been what, four years since iOS 14,

00:43:36   I still see much younger people than me.

00:43:40   And that's one of the things I'm thankful for

00:43:42   is that thanks to Sylvia's job,

00:43:44   I get to hang out with people

00:43:45   that are like 15 years younger than me.

00:43:47   And I see that how they're still customizing their phones.

00:43:51   It's wild, the things they do,

00:43:53   the seasonal themes that they install on their phones.

00:43:56   - That would be cool.

00:43:57   - How much care they take

00:43:59   to make their home screens look nice.

00:44:01   And so if Apple gave them actual controls

00:44:05   to place icons anywhere

00:44:07   and to have more controls over the colors

00:44:10   or the text labels of those icons,

00:44:12   they would lose their minds, I think,

00:44:14   and in a really good way.

00:44:16   So that said, I think Apple should absolutely copy

00:44:21   things that we have seen on Android

00:44:23   and do it in a more elegant and consistent Apple way.

00:44:27   That's the way I like to think about it.

00:44:31   For certain features,

00:44:32   Android sort of explores the territory

00:44:35   and Apple builds on it, like refines the idea.

00:44:40   So place icons anywhere,

00:44:42   and maybe there could be a nice way to do that.

00:44:44   Grab multiple icons, drag them around in a new system

00:44:48   that's better than the one that we've had so far.

00:44:50   Like we've all been there before, right?

00:44:53   You try to place an icon on your iPhone's home screen

00:44:56   and then the next icon moves.

00:44:59   - Yeah, it's the worst.

00:45:00   (laughing)

00:45:01   - You're like wasting five minutes of your life.

00:45:03   - Trying to move widgets around.

00:45:06   - Trying to move widgets around.

00:45:07   - And then it's going backwards, forwards,

00:45:08   backwards, forwards.

00:45:09   - You know, that system is bad and has always been bad.

00:45:13   But also like, I don't know, I kind of like the idea of,

00:45:17   and this is something that exists on macOS.

00:45:20   Let me define a system-wide accent color.

00:45:24   This is something that Android has,

00:45:26   this is something that macOS has.

00:45:29   And so thinking about it in an iOS kind of way,

00:45:33   let me define an accent color

00:45:36   and maybe there will be a way for developers

00:45:38   to provide icons for their apps

00:45:41   that automatically conform to the accent color.

00:45:45   - Very cool, right, theming.

00:45:46   Theming, right?

00:45:47   Theming the entire operating system, essentially.

00:45:48   - But in an API-based way that we know

00:45:52   that Apple loves doing,

00:45:53   because they have the ecosystem to do it.

00:45:55   - Yeah, and then the EU could tell them

00:45:57   that everyone else has to do it too.

00:45:59   - See what the Department of Justice has to say about that.

00:46:01   - That's right.

00:46:02   You picked the wrong colors.

00:46:04   Try again.

00:46:06   - This is something that I also mentioned

00:46:08   on the next episode of App Stories for next week.

00:46:12   And maybe this is a topic

00:46:13   that we should revisit for the future.

00:46:14   The more Apple gets regulated,

00:46:17   the more I think they should really think

00:46:19   about becoming an API-driven company,

00:46:22   in the sense that the best way to not get regulated

00:46:25   is to open up any feature you do

00:46:27   to third-party developers with an API.

00:46:29   - I think they've been moving in that direction.

00:46:31   - They have.

00:46:32   There have been signs, right?

00:46:34   Journal, for example, comes to mind.

00:46:36   So yeah, icon placement.

00:46:41   Let me choose to have a denser grid.

00:46:45   Like, let me put more icons in the place where--

00:46:47   - That I would like, yes.

00:46:49   - In the dock on my iPhone.

00:46:51   Let me put six icons instead of four.

00:46:53   At this point, I still feel like part of Apple's design theme

00:46:59   is still stuck on this idea of the purity

00:47:01   that Johnny Ive once conceived.

00:47:03   And while that's okay to keep as a default,

00:47:07   I think we are now maybe,

00:47:09   and especially the new generations,

00:47:13   we're maybe now past the time of the designer

00:47:17   coming down from the mountain,

00:47:18   holding the one true design

00:47:20   that should be followed at all times.

00:47:22   You know?

00:47:25   - I don't think I need so much space

00:47:26   between my app icons anymore.

00:47:28   Because they're, like it's not even a tap target thing,

00:47:31   because I'm able to interact with buttons

00:47:34   inside of widgets very easily.

00:47:36   So, and they're way smaller than an app icon.

00:47:39   - Exactly.

00:47:40   - I think I could easily increase that.

00:47:43   Then I would be able to do a bit of free placement then,

00:47:45   'cause then I would actually have some space that's free.

00:47:47   So that'd be nice.

00:47:48   - Yeah.

00:47:49   And yeah, and then we wallpapers.

00:47:53   Do you guys remember the rumor from a few years ago

00:47:55   that Apple was gonna do official wallpaper apps

00:47:58   with like a wallpaper API,

00:48:01   and you would find all compatible wallpaper packs

00:48:05   in settings or something?

00:48:06   I still think it's a good idea.

00:48:08   And I still think it's something that should be standardized

00:48:12   by Apple.

00:48:13   There's all kinds of, some of them good,

00:48:16   some of them shady, wallpaper apps on the App Store.

00:48:20   There's a lot of them.

00:48:21   - I mean, who's gonna need it though,

00:48:23   when you can just ask Siri to make you a wallpaper?

00:48:26   - Sure, sure.

00:48:28   But hey, this is where you get the feedback from people.

00:48:30   Oh, my God, why do you hate artists and creators

00:48:34   who sell wallpapers?

00:48:35   And we don't need to get into that.

00:48:37   I know that you don't.

00:48:38   So I had a funny thing yesterday.

00:48:39   This is just like a,

00:48:40   so it was like there was a piece of artwork

00:48:42   that I wanted to make.

00:48:44   It was like a variation of a podcast logo.

00:48:47   And it was very simple.

00:48:49   Well, I knew exactly what I wanted.

00:48:51   And I thought to myself, it's just changing some colors

00:48:54   and adding in some texture as a background.

00:48:57   So I was like, let me try

00:48:59   to use Adobe's generative fill stuff, right?

00:49:03   So I'm like, make this look like this

00:49:05   and give me a background that looks like this, right?

00:49:07   So I was like, let me just go do that.

00:49:09   I did it, it looked terrible.

00:49:10   (both laughing)

00:49:11   And I was struck by the fact of like,

00:49:13   you can give me all of the tools in the world,

00:49:17   but I still can't do it.

00:49:19   Like just because I now have the tools

00:49:20   to create exactly what I want,

00:49:22   it still doesn't look like it.

00:49:24   Like it still takes the eye of someone who has

00:49:28   and the talent, right?

00:49:29   Like you need both.

00:49:30   And it was just really funny where it's like,

00:49:32   oh, I want this to be gold and this to look like leather.

00:49:36   And I did it and I got both of those things.

00:49:39   Like it still doesn't look right.

00:49:40   So I've reached a designer instead of like, you know.

00:49:45   - Yeah, so anyway, I'm related to this.

00:49:50   So I think these are some of the ideas

00:49:52   that I think Apple should implement for more customization.

00:49:55   I do have one request for you guys

00:49:58   and maybe for the audience.

00:50:00   This is, I was thinking about this

00:50:02   when thinking about wallpapers.

00:50:04   One of the problems that I have is that,

00:50:05   so I buy, I purchase a ton of wallpapers

00:50:09   from people on Gumroad.

00:50:11   This is something that I do.

00:50:13   - You're just like keeping that entire industry in business.

00:50:15   - There's a ton of stuff over there.

00:50:17   It's real. - I know there's a ton of stuff.

00:50:18   - It's wild.

00:50:19   - There's two places I spend money on the internet these days.

00:50:23   Etsy for Vision Pro accessories.

00:50:25   (laughing)

00:50:26   I have a wild story coming out soon, I hope tomorrow.

00:50:30   - Oh, I know. - I need to take pictures.

00:50:33   I spend money on Etsy and on Gumroad for wallpapers.

00:50:36   Anyway, I have all these wallpapers,

00:50:38   like folders with images.

00:50:40   How do people keep them organized

00:50:42   and in sync between devices?

00:50:44   I don't wanna save them to the Photos app

00:50:46   in my photo library.

00:50:48   - See, that's what I do.

00:50:49   I have a album called "Wallpapers"

00:50:51   and there's like 3,000 things in there.

00:50:53   - I would do it.

00:50:55   And if you don't want them to show up,

00:50:56   you could like set their date

00:50:57   to all be like 10 years ago or something.

00:50:59   And then they're just gonna be at the top of your library.

00:51:01   - I am sure that there's somewhere out there,

00:51:03   there's a wallpaper organizer app that somebody made

00:51:08   and 100 people use it around the world and they love it.

00:51:11   And I wanna be one of those 100 people.

00:51:14   So if this exists, please let me know.

00:51:17   And yeah, we'll see.

00:51:19   iOS 18, biggest updated in history

00:51:21   because it lets you drag icons around.

00:51:24   (laughing)

00:51:26   - Just be like, "Hey iPhone, arrange my home screen."

00:51:29   That's what's gonna happen.

00:51:30   You know, it's good to do it for you.

00:51:32   - The only thing I would add to the list

00:51:35   is I would like an option to have the app library

00:51:39   automatically sort alphabetically.

00:51:41   - Yes.

00:51:42   - So you want the view that you get

00:51:44   when you start the search to just be the app library view?

00:51:47   - Yeah.

00:51:48   - So this is another piece of feedback that Silvia had.

00:51:51   So she saw the app library in the iPad dock

00:51:54   and she's like, "What's this? It's new."

00:51:56   And so they're all, "This is a new feature

00:51:58   "compared to the last time you tried this.

00:51:59   "It's called the app library, does such and such."

00:52:01   It's like, "I love it.

00:52:02   "So how can I customize the categories?"

00:52:05   And I'm like, "Ah, there we go."

00:52:08   - I love the app library.

00:52:09   I am like an app library absolutist.

00:52:12   I don't want it to change at all.

00:52:13   - Literally within five seconds, she asked me,

00:52:16   "So can I make my own categories?"

00:52:18   I was like, "Who needs it?"

00:52:20   - Give it options.

00:52:21   Just let us change it if we want to.

00:52:24   'Cause I think a lot of people do like the way it works.

00:52:27   - Yeah, me.

00:52:29   - What I have found is like of a lot of things,

00:52:30   if you just use it, it does get better.

00:52:34   Like you know how when you start a spotlight search

00:52:36   and a lot of the time the app that you want

00:52:38   is the app that's there, right?

00:52:39   Do you have that happen to you?

00:52:40   - Mm-hmm.

00:52:42   - Right, Federico, do you have that happen to you?

00:52:44   Like you pull down to start a spotlight,

00:52:45   no, just from the home screen,

00:52:47   you start a spotlight search

00:52:48   and the app that you want is there, right?

00:52:51   App library is like that for me.

00:52:53   Like if I go to the app library,

00:52:55   most of the time the app that I want

00:52:57   is like one of the top ones

00:52:58   because they're the apps that I'm picking a lot.

00:53:00   Like the system is learning,

00:53:02   but you kind of just have to give into it.

00:53:04   But I understand not a lot of people want to,

00:53:06   but I do, I give into the app library.

00:53:09   - Okay.

00:53:10   Well, there you go.

00:53:12   - There you go.

00:53:13   We'll see, the biggest update ever.

00:53:16   - Biggest update ever.

00:53:18   - Which was absolutely incredible.

00:53:19   - What a statement.

00:53:20   - Well, it's only a statement Mark Gurman's made so far.

00:53:24   - Do we think they're gonna,

00:53:26   do we think as the weeks go by

00:53:28   and as we approach the WWC,

00:53:30   are they gonna lean into the AI puns?

00:53:34   - Well, I mean, they already have.

00:53:36   - Well, are there gonna be more?

00:53:38   - How many statements would you imagine they will be given?

00:53:41   You know what I mean?

00:53:41   Like the places in which they would do it.

00:53:43   I feel like- - Oh, it's gonna be,

00:53:44   I don't know, it's gonna be astoundingly interesting.

00:53:49   - I mean, the next opportunity

00:53:52   will probably be the press invitations.

00:53:55   - Right, yes.

00:53:56   - Which will probably have something.

00:53:58   - Amazingly intriguing.

00:54:02   We should move on.

00:54:07   - We should move on.

00:54:08   - We should move on.

00:54:10   - Threads is joining the metaverse.

00:54:13   So this has been- - The metaverse?

00:54:15   - Fetaverse.

00:54:16   - Fetaverse.

00:54:17   - Spiderverse.

00:54:18   - Spiderverse.

00:54:19   - Joining the Spiderverse.

00:54:21   - Mark Zuckerberg is in the Spiderverse.

00:54:23   He's gonna be in the next movie.

00:54:25   - And he's ripped.

00:54:27   - You know what?

00:54:28   I actually believe he could be Spider-Man

00:54:30   if he wanted to be.

00:54:30   Anyway, Threads is joining the Fetaverse.

00:54:35   This was something that they said would happen.

00:54:38   Lots of people believed wouldn't happen, but it's happening.

00:54:41   And they've started, it feels like they're rolling it out.

00:54:45   I think it's just like Canada, Japan, and the US right now

00:54:49   that users can turn on a toggle

00:54:52   to have their Threads post be federated.

00:54:56   So people on Mastodon can find your account.

00:55:00   They can see your posts.

00:55:01   They can react and follow them and like them and stuff.

00:55:05   Meta is indicating that this is a growing thing.

00:55:12   So my hope would be that in the future,

00:55:15   they would just work, right?

00:55:16   That you'll get all of the posts

00:55:18   and you'll be able to reply

00:55:20   and people will see it on Mastodon

00:55:21   and it'll be fully integrated.

00:55:24   So essentially it would feel like people using Threads,

00:55:29   it was like they were just on Mastodon.

00:55:32   So it seems like it's happening, more is coming.

00:55:35   I wanted to know kind of,

00:55:37   well, I think only Steven can enable it,

00:55:40   but so really have you and also Federico

00:55:44   and I will answer too,

00:55:45   would you enable your Threads accounts to be viewable?

00:55:48   - Yeah, I would enable it.

00:55:49   I would enable it. - You would?

00:55:50   - I think, yeah.

00:55:51   - You have or you would?

00:55:53   - I would because I can't right now.

00:55:55   - Yeah, yeah, I thought you said you had.

00:55:56   But Steven, have you done it?

00:55:58   - I did.

00:55:59   The first day it just kept giving me an error,

00:56:01   but they got that straightened out.

00:56:03   And so ismh86@threads.net can be seen from Mastodon

00:56:08   if you're on an instance

00:56:11   that hasn't blocked Threads for some reason.

00:56:14   I've had a little bit of an issue

00:56:16   where I can see it from a mastodon.social account

00:56:20   that I have that I don't use,

00:56:21   but it's kind of a placeholder,

00:56:22   but I can't see it from my actual one,

00:56:25   even though I follow other Threads users

00:56:28   from eWorld.social.

00:56:30   The whole thing feels like we've added DNS to social media

00:56:34   in a way that I don't particularly care for.

00:56:36   But I did turn it on because I figure

00:56:39   if people are on Mastodon,

00:56:42   because like in our audience, they wanna use Ivory

00:56:45   and they wanna see what I'm doing on Threads,

00:56:47   then why not turn it on?

00:56:49   It was very simple.

00:56:50   I would like to know why I can't follow it from eWorld,

00:56:54   but maybe that just takes time

00:56:57   'cause the server's got two users on it,

00:56:58   so it just takes time.

00:57:00   But it is a step in the right direction, I think.

00:57:04   And there are some limitations,

00:57:06   like if someone on Mastodon or elsewhere in the Fediverse

00:57:10   likes your thing, all you see in Threads

00:57:13   is a Fediverse user liked your thing.

00:57:16   So it is early days of this.

00:57:20   But yeah, I figured why not turn it on?

00:57:22   Why not have that content be percolating elsewhere?

00:57:25   I just found you.

00:57:26   I didn't think to look,

00:57:28   but there you go, I found you and followed you,

00:57:30   so my little server can find you again.

00:57:33   And Zach says he can't see it from there,

00:57:36   so I don't know what's going on.

00:57:37   Who knows?

00:57:39   Yeah, and I guess eventually,

00:57:41   maybe it'll go the other way too.

00:57:42   This is just Threads content going out to the Fediverse.

00:57:45   But again, this is step one of 150, I think.

00:57:48   So I guess, well, you did it in Federico.

00:57:53   You said you would do it, but why?

00:57:55   Like what would be your thinking?

00:57:58   I think there's people,

00:58:00   so I've been posting different content

00:58:02   between Mastodon and Threads.

00:58:04   Same.

00:58:05   And I think there's people

00:58:07   who don't wanna install Threads

00:58:09   that will still be interested

00:58:11   in seeing what I post on Threads.

00:58:13   And so the Federation would allow them to follow me

00:58:16   without having to use Threads.

00:58:17   So it's just an option.

00:58:21   But you would imagine that if you did this,

00:58:23   you would still be managing and maintaining both accounts?

00:58:26   Well, that's the world we're living in, right?

00:58:29   For now.

00:58:29   I mean, that's the other question.

00:58:31   But this is the exact world

00:58:33   that would mean you wouldn't have to.

00:58:35   Yeah.

00:58:36   Right?

00:58:37   Well, so here's the thing.

00:58:38   I don't think I'm realistically ever going to give up

00:58:43   my personally owned Mastodon instance with my domain.

00:58:48   And especially looking ahead

00:58:53   at the things we're gonna do with Max Stories and ActivityPub,

00:58:56   I am not gonna just say, "Hey, buy Mastodon account.

00:59:00   I'm just gonna be on Thread."

00:59:01   Right, okay.

00:59:02   So that's why.

00:59:04   That makes sense.

00:59:05   I understand that.

00:59:06   I think I'm leaning that I might,

00:59:10   like I might just go all Threads.

00:59:13   Like I think I might just do that.

00:59:15   Interesting.

00:59:16   I don't really enjoy managing my,

00:59:19   as time has gone on, like the value of it, I understand.

00:59:22   And like a lot of the reasons

00:59:23   that I wanted to have my own instance,

00:59:26   like I've born out to be accurate.

00:59:28   Like I like the idea of having something that's mine.

00:59:32   Like I do like that.

00:59:34   But ultimately the realistic upside kind of is zero for me.

00:59:42   It's just more idealistic upside.

00:59:45   And I don't know if the idealistic upside

00:59:49   is worth the overhead, both financially,

00:59:53   which is not a lot of money,

00:59:54   but like do I need to pay for this?

00:59:57   And also the like,

00:59:59   sometimes I get emails from Mastodos

01:00:02   and I'm like, "Do I need to do anything?"

01:00:03   And I'm logging into admin panels and all kinds of,

01:00:06   it's just like, "I don't wanna be dealing with this."

01:00:09   And so I think for me,

01:00:12   I would lean towards probably going just to threads

01:00:17   and like, because I just think for me, for me personally,

01:00:21   and for what I am using social media for,

01:00:24   I think threads makes the most sense.

01:00:26   And so I think that that might be where,

01:00:28   what I end up doing.

01:00:29   And it would just be made so much easier by the fact of like,

01:00:33   if you don't wanna be on threads

01:00:34   or you wanna use Mastodon, great.

01:00:37   Like that's the whole point.

01:00:38   Now you can follow me on my threads account,

01:00:40   put this Mastodon and everyone's happy.

01:00:43   So I'm not, that's kind of where I think I'm leaning,

01:00:47   but I'll have to wait and see kind of like how it rolls out.

01:00:50   Like I don't expect to make any kind of change

01:00:52   for a long time,

01:00:53   but I think my gut right now tells me

01:00:56   that that's probably where I'll end up going.

01:00:59   'Cause like I'm posting different content

01:01:02   on different services,

01:01:03   but just because I can't be bothered

01:01:04   to post the same thing on two places,

01:01:06   like it's all just me.

01:01:07   - And that's wrong.

01:01:08   You don't wanna cross post.

01:01:10   - Well, you do it.

01:01:11   So like-

01:01:12   - Only in self promotion,

01:01:13   which we all agreed was a fine carve out.

01:01:15   - Nobody agreed, just you.

01:01:17   You created the rule that it was bad

01:01:19   and then the rule carve out that allowed you to do it

01:01:22   without people sending you posts all the time.

01:01:25   I kind of don't care about people cross posting,

01:01:28   but I just can't be bothered to cross post.

01:01:31   - I feel like what Zach just said in Discord

01:01:34   is also my approach to this.

01:01:36   Like Zach brought threads for my current events,

01:01:39   vague posts and Mastodon is for my computer posts.

01:01:42   That is exactly how I've been largely using threads.

01:01:46   - Yeah, I've been doing that too,

01:01:47   but I also don't feel like I'm fine

01:01:51   putting it all in one place.

01:01:52   I'm just not.

01:01:53   - I posted about the fact that I was gonna play Skyrim

01:01:57   in 2024 on threads.

01:02:00   And first of all, that silly post absolutely took off

01:02:05   and I got so many useful replies.

01:02:08   Like actually fun and kind and useful replies

01:02:13   with suggestions.

01:02:14   If I did that on Mastodon,

01:02:16   I would have gotten a bunch of reply guys telling me

01:02:19   there's a much better RPG that you should play

01:02:21   or what device are you playing these on a Steam deck

01:02:26   or into a Shindo yourself.

01:02:27   It's a very different audience.

01:02:30   And so the computer stuff goes on Mastodon,

01:02:33   which is great for, I mean, let's face it,

01:02:36   it's very tech lean.

01:02:39   It's a very tech lean audience.

01:02:41   And the more mainstream, you know, fun,

01:02:45   it's about sort of life and events stuff goes on threads.

01:02:49   - Yeah, you see what you said there

01:02:52   about like loads of people see it.

01:02:54   Like that's part of my thinking,

01:02:56   which is the threads algorithm has the ability

01:02:59   to surface the content that I want people to see

01:03:02   to the people that might see it.

01:03:03   Mastodon does not have that, right?

01:03:06   And again, if I'm thinking about

01:03:09   what am I putting on social media,

01:03:11   90% of what I'm putting on social media

01:03:14   is stuff I want people to see from my career.

01:03:18   I am not, I got out of the habit,

01:03:21   Twitter beat out of me the idea of sending vague posts

01:03:26   or sending quick things.

01:03:29   I so seldom post anything inconsequential.

01:03:34   It is incredibly rare.

01:03:36   - Like what is your threshold for inconsequential?

01:03:39   - It has to be something that I genuinely feel like-

01:03:42   - Like my Skyrim post would have been inconsequential.

01:03:44   Like, hey, I'm playing this cool video game.

01:03:48   - I'm not sure if I would have posted that.

01:03:50   - Right, okay.

01:03:51   - Because I can't be bothered with the replies, right?

01:03:56   - Right, okay.

01:03:58   - It has to be the most, if I'm gonna post a joke,

01:04:01   it has to be completely innocuous now

01:04:04   as far as I can imagine it, right?

01:04:07   Like this is what Twitter just did to me, right?

01:04:10   I feel like I'm ever gonna, it's just a simple rubric.

01:04:13   Am I willing to give up, this is what I said before,

01:04:15   but am I willing to give up the rest of my day to this post?

01:04:19   That's what I asked myself this question.

01:04:22   And 99% of the time, what it means is

01:04:25   I close the compose window.

01:04:28   - Okay.

01:04:29   - And so like for me, if I'm gonna post anything now,

01:04:33   it's by and large, like pretty much work stuff

01:04:37   or things that are related to work.

01:04:38   And so then threads works

01:04:40   because they surface that content to people.

01:04:45   And I like threads more now for me

01:04:48   as a content like mechanism,

01:04:51   'cause the algorithm's very good at knowing what I like.

01:04:55   It knows exactly what I wanna see and I see it.

01:04:57   And when I love now where if you see something

01:04:59   you don't like, you just swipe it right, it hides it.

01:05:02   And the algorithm learns from it.

01:05:04   And so then I don't see content about that anymore.

01:05:07   And like the fact that the Instagram

01:05:09   and threads algorithms are tied together

01:05:13   means that I see stuff which is like related

01:05:15   to the stuff that I follow on Instagram,

01:05:17   which is like tends to be simpler things.

01:05:19   So like it's like a lot of Formula One stuff or whatever.

01:05:21   So I get a lot of Formula One things on my threads,

01:05:24   which is great.

01:05:25   And it's also accounts I don't need to follow.

01:05:27   So I don't need to get that stuff all the time.

01:05:29   So when does that get a big event going on?

01:05:31   I'm getting the information about it.

01:05:33   I find it to be quite a good mechanism.

01:05:35   I find the experience of using threads

01:05:38   to be far superior to my experience of using Twitter.

01:05:41   So like a service that it is more like

01:05:43   because of the algorithm.

01:05:45   And then I use Mastodon and Mastodon

01:05:49   is mostly my computer nerd friends,

01:05:50   but I would be totally happy to have that content

01:05:53   show up in my threads account instead

01:05:57   and just have one to deal with.

01:05:58   I don't really wanna personally,

01:06:00   I don't see much of a benefit to continuing to deal with

01:06:04   like two very similar social networks.

01:06:08   Like it's just not necessarily what I wanna be doing.

01:06:11   So that's kind of where I'm leaning.

01:06:13   I just wanted to get a check in from you both.

01:06:14   It both to me,

01:06:15   it seems like you would probably both continue doing both,

01:06:19   but have your threads account there just because why not?

01:06:22   Like in the Fed of Earth?

01:06:24   - I think so.

01:06:24   - Yeah. - Yeah.

01:06:25   - Yeah, yeah. - I think so.

01:06:27   - Okay.

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01:08:22   - The one true Jonathan.

01:08:26   The one true Jonathan.

01:08:28   Yeah, so I had a blog post out this week

01:08:31   looking at this concept that was kicking around Apple

01:08:36   about a year after the Macintosh went on sale.

01:08:40   And it's important to remember

01:08:41   that back in the '80s in particular,

01:08:43   like it wasn't a given there'd be another Macintosh

01:08:47   'cause they went like Apple II, Apple III, Lisa, Mac.

01:08:51   Like those all overlapped a little bit,

01:08:53   but companies didn't necessarily stick with a platform

01:08:57   and improve it.

01:08:58   They were like build a whole new computer every time.

01:09:00   Just not the way things work today,

01:09:03   but it's how things worked in the early days.

01:09:05   And the Jonathan was a concept floating about that time

01:09:10   that was really designed to be as customizable as possible.

01:09:15   So sort of in a nutshell, the Jonathan had like a backbone

01:09:22   and then you slid in these modules.

01:09:25   So you'd have like your power supply module,

01:09:28   your floppy disk module.

01:09:29   You'd have one that had like the compute

01:09:31   for like your Mac system.

01:09:33   But then maybe you could also get a compute one

01:09:36   that brought DOS to your system

01:09:38   or audio interface to your system.

01:09:41   And it would look if once it was all built out

01:09:44   like a bookcase with all these modules plugged in

01:09:47   and then a CRT on top of it.

01:09:50   You could see a picture at the chapter art right now.

01:09:53   The way this could look, I should say the renders

01:09:57   in the article are done by NanoRaptor.

01:10:00   If you don't follow Dana's work on social media,

01:10:03   you totally should.

01:10:04   'Cause there are very few photos of this thing

01:10:06   out in the world, very little information.

01:10:08   So it was fun to dive into it

01:10:09   and hopefully open people's eyes

01:10:11   to what this thing could have been.

01:10:13   - I have two questions for you that we need to address

01:10:16   before we continue.

01:10:17   - Yes.

01:10:18   - One, why is it called the Jonathan?

01:10:21   Which is a really, really stupid name for a computer.

01:10:23   - It is.

01:10:24   - Especially the the in it.

01:10:26   And two, how did you find the Jonathan?

01:10:31   - The engineer at Apple who was championing this idea

01:10:36   was named Jonathan Fitch.

01:10:39   And he was so happy with it, he named it after himself.

01:10:42   - Interesting.

01:10:44   So the guy who created the Mac was called Mac Fitch?

01:10:47   (laughing)

01:10:49   - But like there is already precedent, right?

01:10:52   At this point, why didn't he just call it Jonathan?

01:10:55   - Jonathan is also a type of Apple.

01:10:57   So there's also like that play

01:10:59   'cause Macintosh is also a type of Apple like.

01:11:01   - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, no.

01:11:02   - The guy just so happens to be called Jonathan.

01:11:04   - But what I'm saying is,

01:11:06   why didn't he just call it Jonathan?

01:11:08   Why is the the there?

01:11:10   - It's the the, it's like, oh, and this is the Jonathan.

01:11:14   - Because we already have Lisa, right?

01:11:17   - Well, so Apple now doesn't want you to use those words,

01:11:22   right, they want you to call it iPhone, not the iPhone.

01:11:28   Maybe it's in backlash to this.

01:11:31   I believe the actual--

01:11:33   - That's not true.

01:11:34   - That's not true at all.

01:11:35   I believe the actual project name

01:11:38   was Jonathan Computer Concept,

01:11:41   but I couldn't nail that down.

01:11:44   It was just one source.

01:11:45   And so I went with the Jonathan.

01:11:47   - Was that something that journalism school made you do?

01:11:52   - It did, yeah, I might agree.

01:11:53   - Right, okay.

01:11:54   - I did it.

01:11:55   (laughing)

01:11:57   I also had frog design as two words.

01:12:00   Sometimes they use their name as one word, very confusing.

01:12:03   So it was this concept

01:12:05   where you could basically build your own computer

01:12:08   and they went to frog design who did a mock-up of it.

01:12:12   The very, very few handful of pictures of this thing

01:12:15   come from the frog design work.

01:12:17   It's like in a slate gray color

01:12:19   and there's also like a snow white kind of platinum color.

01:12:22   These photos basically exist in one book

01:12:26   and there are a couple photos on the internet

01:12:28   that people say are from the actual time period,

01:12:31   but that's hard to confirm.

01:12:34   So very little information and very little photos.

01:12:37   - And how did you come across this?

01:12:39   Like why did you write this?

01:12:40   Like what happened that made you write this?

01:12:43   - So I came across this the first time

01:12:45   because of the renders that again,

01:12:48   I'm fortunate enough to have in the article

01:12:50   by Dana or NanoRaptor.

01:12:53   She's put all sorts of wacky renders

01:12:56   on social media for years.

01:12:58   And the first time I saw this, I was like, oh.

01:13:00   - Everyone's seen a NanoRaptor image

01:13:03   and thought it was real, right?

01:13:06   - Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

01:13:07   - That's happened to everybody.

01:13:08   - It's happened to everyone.

01:13:09   - I have no idea what you're talking about.

01:13:11   - Federico, you have seen NanoRaptor renders before,

01:13:14   like on social media.

01:13:15   - Nano.

01:13:16   - You've definitely seen them.

01:13:19   'Cause the NanoRaptor accounts is basically just like,

01:13:23   most of the time it's like hardware

01:13:26   that looks like it could have existed, but is fake.

01:13:30   Like it's fake stuff that they make.

01:13:31   - Yeah.

01:13:33   - And you will have 100% seen these before,

01:13:37   but you might just not be familiar with it.

01:13:38   - NanoRaptor. - So they just get reposted

01:13:40   all the time, yeah.

01:13:42   - Yeah, yeah.

01:13:43   - There are links in the article to her,

01:13:45   Macedon and Blue Sky account.

01:13:48   My favorites are like the boxes for software

01:13:53   that didn't come in boxes.

01:13:54   For some reason that always tickles me.

01:13:56   But I saw these renders, I mean, a while ago,

01:14:00   and I was like, oh, I wonder what that's about.

01:14:03   And basically like it triggered me a memory

01:14:06   from an Apple book that I have on my shelf.

01:14:10   I was like, oh, that name is familiar to me,

01:14:12   but I kind of just like put it into do list

01:14:14   with like a year deadline, like right about the Jonathan.

01:14:18   And it finally came up.

01:14:20   I was like, you know what, I got some time this week.

01:14:22   This is a good time to do this.

01:14:24   And so it is, was a real concept.

01:14:29   There was real, at least mock-up hardware built.

01:14:32   I'm very unclear on how far down the road

01:14:38   of functionality they got.

01:14:40   Nothing I have read says, and this thing was up and working.

01:14:43   I believe what they showed John Scully

01:14:46   and the other Apple executives was the frog design mock-up

01:14:51   and then basically a lot of talk about

01:14:53   this is how we think this could work.

01:14:56   And I have it in the blog post,

01:15:00   but there's a couple of books that talk about this.

01:15:03   And basically John Scully was like, well,

01:15:05   if someone can run macOS and DOS on the same computer,

01:15:09   what if they like DOS better

01:15:11   and they actually leave the Apple ecosystem?

01:15:13   'Cause the team working on this thought,

01:15:15   okay, you'll want to use your Mac, right?

01:15:18   Or the next generation of the Apple platform,

01:15:21   whatever that is, but you also may need to use other systems

01:15:25   and you can rely on those things sort of in a legacy mode

01:15:29   through this module, but because it's super flexible,

01:15:32   you'll just stay in the Apple ecosystem.

01:15:34   And I think Scully was right to kill it.

01:15:36   I mean, it's a bananas concept.

01:15:37   It would have cost a fortune.

01:15:39   I think it would have opened the door

01:15:41   because we know historically the Mac was good for a time

01:15:45   and then got bad or didn't evolve

01:15:47   the way some of the other platforms did.

01:15:49   And so I think they were right to kill it,

01:15:52   but it's just like this weirdo,

01:15:54   what could have been like alternative timeline thing.

01:15:58   And the renders are amazing.

01:15:59   The photos are amazing.

01:16:00   The whole thing is so wacky.

01:16:03   I couldn't help myself, but dive into it.

01:16:05   - You kind of, it's called the genre.

01:16:07   You know, like the name just,

01:16:09   it's begging to be written about.

01:16:12   The computer is called the Jonathan, you know?

01:16:15   This isn't your average computer.

01:16:16   This one's a Jonathan.

01:16:18   - It's Jonathan.

01:16:19   - They wouldn't have shipped it with that name, right?

01:16:21   - I wouldn't think so, but who knows?

01:16:24   - The Jonathan.

01:16:25   - They did Lisa, but of course, you know, by this point,

01:16:30   by the time this would have come out,

01:16:31   jobs would have been gone.

01:16:32   So who knows?

01:16:34   - I don't know if that means they would or they wouldn't.

01:16:37   - Exactly.

01:16:39   - It feels like Apple at that time

01:16:40   were doing a lot of things

01:16:41   maybe they shouldn't have been doing.

01:16:42   So maybe, maybe really they should have done the Jonathan.

01:16:45   - Yeah.

01:16:46   - Like that's what time has taught

01:16:48   'cause they were doing things then

01:16:49   that they shouldn't have been doing.

01:16:51   So maybe the things that they thought they shouldn't do

01:16:52   were the things they should have done.

01:16:54   - Yeah, and as Daphne points out in the chat room,

01:16:56   Apple did support DOS compatibility through add-in cards

01:17:02   that they made themselves,

01:17:03   but that was a few years down the road

01:17:06   and not the same thing as this.

01:17:08   And so there is some irony that some of the technology

01:17:13   in this concept came to fruition as did some of the work on,

01:17:17   so the processor that was gonna, I guess,

01:17:19   power all of this, or at least power the Mac part of it

01:17:22   was gonna be the 68030.

01:17:24   That was basically a promised processor that wasn't out yet,

01:17:28   but that work on that platform ended up paying off

01:17:31   in some later Macintosh models.

01:17:33   So it's not like all this work went to waste.

01:17:36   Some of the concepts showed up elsewhere.

01:17:39   I got a cool blog post out of it 40 years later,

01:17:43   and now people can learn about it.

01:17:46   - I'm sure everyone feels like their work was worth it now

01:17:49   that you've written about it.

01:17:51   - I hope that the people working on this read this

01:17:54   and are like, yeah, people now know about the thing we did

01:17:57   because it is interesting.

01:18:00   I kind of talk about this towards the end of the article,

01:18:04   but I didn't jump super like down this rabbit hole.

01:18:06   I really kind of want to focus on just what the concept was.

01:18:10   But the idea is still kind of around,

01:18:14   like that you can run on your Mac,

01:18:18   you can run iPhone and iPad software,

01:18:20   you can run stuff in the command line,

01:18:21   you can run web apps,

01:18:23   and that's all solved on the software layer now,

01:18:26   not the hardware layer.

01:18:28   But the hardware layer made me think of our friend Federico

01:18:32   and his Mac pad, right?

01:18:33   This is the most Federico computer of the 80s ever,

01:18:36   because you're building exactly what you want

01:18:39   with the components you need to get your job done.

01:18:41   - No kickstands though.

01:18:43   - No kickstands.

01:18:45   You're gonna need a big table though.

01:18:47   This thing must have weighed a thousand pounds.

01:18:50   - Visually, I do kind of like it.

01:18:52   Like as a way to do what they were trying to do,

01:18:57   I think that the ideas,

01:18:59   like the visual design of it's pretty good.

01:19:01   I'm talking specifically about the renders.

01:19:05   - Yeah.

01:19:06   - Like the real ones, the frog design ones,

01:19:09   'cause that's obviously the closest

01:19:10   that we can get to it actually of being a real thing.

01:19:13   And I think the stack of things underneath the display

01:19:18   looks really nice.

01:19:20   It's got kind of X serve vibes to me.

01:19:23   - Yeah, kind of.

01:19:23   - With the slots, so like a Drobo or something.

01:19:27   - Yeah.

01:19:28   - I dig it.

01:19:29   I like looking at keyboard too, it looks nice.

01:19:31   - Yeah, yeah.

01:19:32   The two photos are of the frog design hardware

01:19:35   and the renders are kind of based on those.

01:19:38   And there's like next DNA in this,

01:19:40   like the display that frog design put together

01:19:44   for this concept straight up is what Next ended up shipping

01:19:48   like six years later.

01:19:49   I mean, some of this hardware is very cool.

01:19:53   The black sort of slate color,

01:19:55   very different than anything Apple was doing at the time

01:19:58   and really ever did.

01:19:59   Like they never really kind of did a blue gray plastic.

01:20:02   But that was part of it.

01:20:04   I think when you have a concept like this,

01:20:05   part of it is how it looks,

01:20:07   because particularly in something like this,

01:20:11   where you're gonna have these modules

01:20:14   and the system kind of does whatever magic it needs to do

01:20:16   to make it all work together.

01:20:17   Like the functionality and the design are one thing, right?

01:20:23   Like in one of her renders,

01:20:24   she has like a Roland interface and is like,

01:20:28   yeah, like Roland is gonna put their stuff on it

01:20:31   and like design it and have their logo on it,

01:20:35   but it's gonna kind of match the design of the whole family

01:20:38   and you can like build your own thing.

01:20:40   That's super interesting.

01:20:42   And something that we don't have now

01:20:44   when all this is sort of abstract software

01:20:46   and not hardware on our desks,

01:20:49   at least for most of us without Mac pads.

01:20:52   Mm-hmm.

01:20:53   I kind of want one.

01:20:55   I want one.

01:20:56   I wish some of these were floating around.

01:20:57   It'd be cool to have.

01:20:58   A Jonathan?

01:20:59   Yeah.

01:21:00   There is a project, someone sent me a link.

01:21:01   I need to look into it more.

01:21:02   Some people have been like 3D printing,

01:21:06   like enclosures and stuff that kind of in the style,

01:21:10   which is fun.

01:21:11   Maybe I'll do that and put like my SSDs

01:21:13   in like a Jonathan case one day.

01:21:15   It's not like people aren't making things

01:21:17   to look like the Jonathan, right?

01:21:18   Like it's just something that looks like it, surely.

01:21:21   No, no, it's like one project very specifically

01:21:23   is like 3D print your own Jonathan.

01:21:26   Jeez, how?

01:21:28   How are there enough people that know about this?

01:21:32   Again, like when you Googled this,

01:21:33   there was like four things and none of them--

01:21:37   Maybe it's Jonathan.

01:21:39   Maybe it's just Jonathan.

01:21:40   That might actually be Jonathan.

01:21:42   Could be.

01:21:43   It could be.

01:21:45   And that's why I took the time like going through these books

01:21:48   quoting the books because there was very little information.

01:21:52   It was scattered.

01:21:53   And now I hope this blog post is like the one true source

01:21:55   of information about this thing.

01:21:58   And getting to use the renders is just a cherry on top.

01:22:03   Why-- you don't know the answer to this question,

01:22:05   but I'm asking why does everybody at Apple

01:22:08   take the H out of Jonathan?

01:22:10   Why does that happen?

01:22:11   Oh, yeah.

01:22:12   You got to ask his mom.

01:22:13   Maybe she named him.

01:22:14   Because Johnny too, right?

01:22:15   It's J-O-N-Y.

01:22:16   What's going on over there?

01:22:18   No H's?

01:22:20   It's confusing.

01:22:23   I mean, it's an H-free zone.

01:22:27   What do you think of this, Federico?

01:22:28   You've been quiet.

01:22:29   Yeah, no, I'm just--

01:22:31   I'm still thinking about the fact that this renders.

01:22:34   Like I think I saw these renders from this account a while back.

01:22:39   I never really paid attention.

01:22:40   I always thought they were actually real products.

01:22:43   This is what I'm saying about the Nenerapsa stuff.

01:22:45   Like I've seen so many things that have been reposted

01:22:48   from that account.

01:22:49   And I'm like, oh, that's weird.

01:22:50   And it took me a long time to realize that some of it

01:22:53   isn't real.

01:22:54   And it was like something of a keyboard once,

01:22:56   where I was like, that just doesn't look

01:22:58   like it could even work.

01:22:59   And then I realized, oh, none of this stuff's real.

01:23:02   So why does she do it?

01:23:06   I think she just loves old computers

01:23:07   and is really good at Blender.

01:23:09   And so it's like making the stuff for people's enjoyment.

01:23:12   Huh.

01:23:13   It is remarkable how realistic they look.

01:23:17   Yeah.

01:23:17   There's one-- I didn't put it in here--

01:23:19   that she did that's like chrome-plated.

01:23:22   It's very shiny and reflective, which is quite fun.

01:23:26   I'll put that in the Discord for people to see.

01:23:28   But I mean, to answer your question, obviously,

01:23:30   the idea of a modular computer sounds incredible.

01:23:32   And I would have totally--

01:23:35   if this existed and I was older, I would have--

01:23:40   this would have been a dream, you know,

01:23:42   slotting different components.

01:23:44   I mean, sign me up, you know?

01:23:46   Yeah, it would have been sweet.

01:23:49   I think that does it for this week.

01:23:52   If you want to find links to the stuff we spoke about,

01:23:55   check out the links in your podcast player.

01:23:57   You can also find them on the web

01:23:59   at relay.fm/connected/495.

01:24:04   While you're there, you can submit feedback or follow up.

01:24:08   We have a form there that you can use.

01:24:12   We also have an awesome membership program

01:24:15   called Connected Pro.

01:24:16   Connected Pro members get longer ad-free versions of the show

01:24:19   each and every week.

01:24:21   We've been talking about shower follow up, just even more.

01:24:25   Unfortunately.

01:24:26   For some reason.

01:24:27   It never ends.

01:24:29   But Connected Pro, $7 a month or $7 a year.

01:24:33   We would love to have you sign up.

01:24:35   You can find us all online.

01:24:37   You can find Mike.

01:24:39   His work is scattered across the network.

01:24:41   A bunch of great shows.

01:24:42   You can also find his work at Cortex Brand.

01:24:45   You can follow him on Threads as imike and on Macedon

01:24:49   as imike@mike.social.

01:24:52   Federico is the editor-in-chief of maxstories.net.

01:24:56   You can find him online, Vitici on Threads and Vitici

01:25:01   at maxstories.net on Macedon.

01:25:04   You can find my writing at 512pixels.net.

01:25:06   And I co-host MPU each and every Sunday here on Relay FM.

01:25:10   And I'm ismh86 on Threads and ismh@eworld.social on Macedon.

01:25:16   I'd like our sponsors this week, Ecamm, ZocDoc, and Squarespace.

01:25:21   And until next time, say goodbye.


01:25:25   Bye-bye.

01:25:26   Bye, y'all.