Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [MUSIC]

00:00:07 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 499.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Jam, 1Password, and Fitbod.

00:00:17 ◼   ► My name is Mike Hurley. I am joined by Federico Vattici.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Ciao Federico.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Ciao Mike. How are you?

00:00:22 ◼   ► I'm good. How are you?

00:00:24 ◼   ► I'm good. We are without Dad this week.

00:00:27 ◼   ► Yes, no Dad.

00:00:29 ◼   ► No Dad.

00:00:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:31 ◼   ► Federico, do you know where Steven is?

00:00:34 ◼   ► No, actually I don't.

00:00:35 ◼   ► That's okay. He's in Memphis.

00:00:38 ◼   ► But there's a big thing going on for St. Jude right now.

00:00:41 ◼   ► They're bringing in creators.

00:00:43 ◼   ► And so Steven's there, Kathy's there, Casey and Jason are there too.

00:00:48 ◼   ► So like they've brought some people in.

00:00:51 ◼   ► It's kind of like a creator summit, they call it, for fundraisers.

00:00:55 ◼   ► Steven texted me today to tell me there's a lot of gamers here.

00:00:59 ◼   ► A lot of gamers?

00:01:00 ◼   ► Yeah, it's mostly gamers.

00:01:01 ◼   ► It's gamers and then a few tech podcasters.

00:01:05 ◼   ► I think that's the...

00:01:06 ◼   ► And then some people from the community are there too.

00:01:08 ◼   ► So people from Discord who raised money,

00:01:11 ◼   ► like did some of the fundraising stuff, they're there.

00:01:13 ◼   ► So it's basically you've got gamers, Relay Discord members,

00:01:17 ◼   ► and a couple of Relay podcast hosts.

00:01:19 ◼   ► Loads of gamers.

00:01:20 ◼   ► Shout out to the gamers.

00:01:22 ◼   ► They're going to rise up.

00:01:23 ◼   ► Yes, as always.

00:01:25 ◼   ► Gamers rise up.

00:01:26 ◼   ► We have some follow up.

00:01:28 ◼   ► OK.

00:01:29 ◼   ► First off, I would just like to give a shout out to new listener Diggy.

00:01:33 ◼   ► Diggy?

00:01:33 ◼   ► Who wrote in Discord and said,

00:01:35 ◼   ► "I listened to Connected for the first time ever this week

00:01:38 ◼   ► and was mostly entertained but lost.

00:01:40 ◼   ► It's a win for me and I'll keep listening."

00:01:42 ◼   ► OK, OK.

00:01:44 ◼   ► Well, thank you Diggy for starting...

00:01:46 ◼   ► Sticking with us.

00:01:47 ◼   ► You know, sticking with us and listening to the show.

00:01:49 ◼   ► I understand that there's a lot of like at this point

00:01:53 ◼   ► inside jokes and things and references that maybe could...

00:01:56 ◼   ► You know, maybe somebody should put out a...

00:01:58 ◼   ► Maybe somebody should prepare like a compendium.

00:02:00 ◼   ► Whoa.

00:02:01 ◼   ► Like a read me for the podcast?

00:02:03 ◼   ► Like a read me, like a little connected encyclopedia or something.

00:02:07 ◼   ► God, that would be good.

00:02:08 ◼   ► As Emma says in the Discord, the lore.

00:02:12 ◼   ► Yeah, someone needs to put together a lore document for the show.

00:02:15 ◼   ► Because I think either last week or the week before,

00:02:20 ◼   ► we were talking about the idea.

00:02:21 ◼   ► I think it might have been during Teach Italian,

00:02:23 ◼   ► which is taking a break this week because Steven's not here.

00:02:25 ◼   ► Because obviously Steven needs Teach Italian more than anyone else.

00:02:30 ◼   ► -Obviously. -Obviously.

00:02:31 ◼   ► We were referencing the fact that this show must be like impossible to start.

00:02:38 ◼   ► But turns out Diggy found it possible.

00:02:40 ◼   ► So shout out to Diggy, you know?

00:02:42 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah. Be like Diggy.

00:02:44 ◼   ► Just get started.

00:02:45 ◼   ► I'm going to close the loop finally on my Craig...

00:02:49 ◼   ► What did Craig Federighi say it?

00:02:51 ◼   ► Follow up from the last two weeks.

00:02:54 ◼   ► Obviously the person to help me was _DavidSmith,

00:02:56 ◼   ► who texted me the other day to say,

00:02:58 ◼   ► "I found the clip that I think you were after with Apple using training data.

00:03:03 ◼   ► It was in the 2016 WWDC live talk show.

00:03:07 ◼   ► At 53 minutes and 19 seconds into the episode,

00:03:10 ◼   ► Craig was talking about mountains."

00:03:13 ◼   ► Ah, not trees.

00:03:14 ◼   ► So he says,

00:03:15 ◼   ► "It turns out if you want to get pictures of mountains,

00:03:18 ◼   ► you don't need to get it out of people's personal photo libraries.

00:03:21 ◼   ► We found out we could find some pictures of some mountains.

00:03:24 ◼   ► We did tough detective work and we found them."

00:03:26 ◼   ► It's like he was making a joke,

00:03:28 ◼   ► but that's the idea of like,

00:03:30 ◼   ► they don't need people's photos.

00:03:33 ◼   ► They're just data sets they could buy.

00:03:35 ◼   ► That was what I was talking about and that was what they ended up doing.

00:03:37 ◼   ► So thank you _ for that.

00:03:40 ◼   ► Finally, you know?

00:03:42 ◼   ► I tried myself using this and I couldn't do it,

00:03:44 ◼   ► but it's really only _.

00:03:46 ◼   ► Are you at peace now?

00:03:47 ◼   ► You found what you were looking for with this?

00:03:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:51 ◼   ► Okay, good.

00:03:52 ◼   ► We're no longer Mandela'd.

00:03:54 ◼   ► Okay.

00:03:55 ◼   ► It's a good thing.

00:03:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:57 ◼   ► No more Mandela.

00:03:58 ◼   ► What's going on, Mike, what's going on with fine woven cases?

00:04:02 ◼   ► Oh yeah, so fine woven may be gone, it seems.

00:04:07 ◼   ► So there were fine woven cases potentially on the way out.

00:04:10 ◼   ► Leaker Kousutami,

00:04:12 ◼   ► he's a Twitter leaker who had some good stuff about cases in the past,

00:04:16 ◼   ► which is just hilarious.

00:04:17 ◼   ► It's very niche.

00:04:18 ◼   ► I am a case leaker.

00:04:22 ◼   ► They said that it seems like there's one more set of colors left,

00:04:25 ◼   ► one more seasonal color set that they're going to do,

00:04:28 ◼   ► but then that's going to be the end of the--

00:04:31 ◼   ► So one final outing for the fine woven lineup and then it's done forever.

00:04:38 ◼   ► That's the end.

00:04:39 ◼   ► That's the end.

00:04:40 ◼   ► I guess what was left in the supply chain.

00:04:45 ◼   ► Maybe Apple were just like, you know what, just paint them pink or something.

00:04:49 ◼   ► Do anything.

00:04:51 ◼   ► But I guess they got this one, they were working on it,

00:04:54 ◼   ► but yeah, it seems like they're going to do something else.

00:04:56 ◼   ► I mean, I saw somebody saying that maybe Alcantara might be an option

00:05:00 ◼   ► because it's another pseudo leather.

00:05:02 ◼   ► I think they need to just give it up and just do all silicon.

00:05:05 ◼   ► That's what I think.

00:05:07 ◼   ► Or just do plastic leather or something.

00:05:10 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:05:12 ◼   ► Yeah, but see, the problem is that though,

00:05:14 ◼   ► and this is going back to exactly what I was talking about before,

00:05:17 ◼   ► so I'm sorry for repeating myself.

00:05:18 ◼   ► A lot of the plastic leathers, pleathers,

00:05:22 ◼   ► they are not good for the environment.

00:05:24 ◼   ► And so at some point you might as well just go back to leather again.

00:05:28 ◼   ► And this is the thing, it's not just about replacing leather

00:05:33 ◼   ► for the sake of replacing leather.

00:05:34 ◼   ► They're trying to make a more environmentally friendly case.

00:05:39 ◼   ► And a lot of these things out there are not great.

00:05:45 ◼   ► And so like Josie says in the chat,

00:05:46 ◼   ► "Silicon feels weird because it's plastic."

00:05:49 ◼   ► My assumption is that Apple have a process

00:05:51 ◼   ► where they're able to use recycled materials for the cases,

00:05:54 ◼   ► otherwise they wouldn't do them.

00:05:55 ◼   ► Like I think that's kind of where they are right now.

00:05:58 ◼   ► I think Apple at some point, while they like the money,

00:06:01 ◼   ► would prefer to be able to commit to their environmental pledges

00:06:04 ◼   ► because that's important for them for one reason or another.

00:06:08 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess.

00:06:09 ◼   ► I have a MagSafe stand for you that I saw on The Verge.

00:06:12 ◼   ► I was looking at these pictures and I am so tempted.

00:06:16 ◼   ► It is just a plastic stand that looks like a Game Boy Advance SP

00:06:20 ◼   ► that you can put a MagSafe into and charge your phone on a Game Boy.

00:06:25 ◼   ► Oh, this is so nice.

00:06:26 ◼   ► Does it actually have a MagSafe pack inside

00:06:29 ◼   ► or do you need to provide your own?

00:06:31 ◼   ► Oh, man.

00:06:33 ◼   ► I prefer providing your own ones

00:06:35 ◼   ► because then you get the good MagSafe, you know,

00:06:39 ◼   ► rather than...

00:06:40 ◼   ► Unless they do the whole thing.

00:06:42 ◼   ► My beloved cube does the speed that I want, my Anker cube.

00:06:45 ◼   ► But there you go, Federica.

00:06:46 ◼   ► I thought that this would fit for you.

00:06:48 ◼   ► And this is totally my...

00:06:50 ◼   ► Oh, and it's made by a Lago, of course.

00:06:52 ◼   ► The Lago make loads of this kind of stuff, right?

00:06:54 ◼   ► They made Mac ones and stuff like that.

00:06:58 ◼   ► They have on their website right now,

00:07:00 ◼   ► they have an old Game Boy stand for Apple Watch charging.

00:07:05 ◼   ► You can get a case,

00:07:09 ◼   ► a silicon case for a plug that looks like a Game Boy.

00:07:14 ◼   ► Yeah, I used to have the...

00:07:16 ◼   ► Was it made by a Lago?

00:07:18 ◼   ► I think a case for my AirPods Pro

00:07:21 ◼   ► that looked like a Nintendo Switch or something.

00:07:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:23 ◼   ► But at some point I had that.

00:07:25 ◼   ► I think it was a Lago, but I may be mistaken.

00:07:27 ◼   ► They make loads of this kind of stuff.

00:07:29 ◼   ► It's a niche little thing to make.

00:07:30 ◼   ► I like it.

00:07:33 ◼   ► Meta Ray-Bans are getting cooler all the time.

00:07:37 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:07:37 ◼   ► And I just bought a pair.

00:07:38 ◼   ► So let's talk about this.

00:07:39 ◼   ► OK, OK.

00:07:41 ◼   ► I was hoping this would happen.

00:07:43 ◼   ► But there's a...

00:07:43 ◼   ► So I've been keeping an...

00:07:44 ◼   ► I've been literally keeping an eye on this for a while.

00:07:46 ◼   ► But there was the issue.

00:07:49 ◼   ► So before we talk about the news, just let me contextualize here.

00:07:52 ◼   ► I think this is a really interesting product

00:07:54 ◼   ► because first of all, it's sunglasses and it's Ray-Bans.

00:07:57 ◼   ► And I like the look.

00:07:59 ◼   ► But also, as I mentioned before,

00:08:00 ◼   ► like I'm very intrigued by this idea.

00:08:02 ◼   ► Same as I said for the Humanae AI pin,

00:08:04 ◼   ► like this idea of having a camera that allows me to record stuff,

00:08:08 ◼   ► like moments with my dogs at the park, for example,

00:08:11 ◼   ► without having to pull out my phone.

00:08:13 ◼   ► I'm very intrigued by this category.

00:08:15 ◼   ► And also, these are actually pretty decent Bluetooth speakers, it seems like.

00:08:19 ◼   ► So I've been meaning to purchase them for a while.

00:08:22 ◼   ► But the Italian Ray-Ban website is so weird

00:08:25 ◼   ► because there's no mention whatsoever of getting a prescription version.

00:08:31 ◼   ► There's a link in a support page buried in another page that says,

00:08:36 ◼   ► "Just go to a..."

00:08:38 ◼   ► I don't remember, some kind of like optic center with a specific name.

00:08:43 ◼   ► Turns out it's an American company that has retailers only in America.

00:08:48 ◼   ► So it doesn't apply to Italy at all.

00:08:50 ◼   ► And so I started thinking about this.

00:08:52 ◼   ► I literally thought about this for the past month.

00:08:55 ◼   ► I was like, "How am I going to do this?

00:08:57 ◼   ► I need to use prescription if I want to drive with these glasses."

00:09:00 ◼   ► And then I had an idea.

00:09:02 ◼   ► So I emailed my friends at Lensology.

00:09:07 ◼   ► This is a company based in the UK

00:09:09 ◼   ► that provided me in the past for prescription lenses for my X-Real glasses.

00:09:13 ◼   ► Remember those months ago?

00:09:15 ◼   ► -Oh, yes. -Yeah.

00:09:16 ◼   ► I used Lensology, great UK-based company.

00:09:19 ◼   ► So I sent them an email yesterday.

00:09:21 ◼   ► I was like, "Hey, so I want to do this.

00:09:23 ◼   ► I want to buy this Ray-Ban Meta in Italy.

00:09:26 ◼   ► Can I ship this to you?

00:09:28 ◼   ► And can you apply prescription sunglass lenses for me

00:09:33 ◼   ► and then ship them back to me?"

00:09:35 ◼   ► And they were like, "Yeah, totally. We can do this.

00:09:37 ◼   ► Just here's our address. Just buy the glasses, send them to us,

00:09:41 ◼   ► and we'll calculate the total for the lenses that you want,

00:09:43 ◼   ► and then we'll ship them back to you."

00:09:45 ◼   ► And so, yeah, that's what I'm going to do.

00:09:47 ◼   ► I put in an order for the basic model of the Wayfarer Ray-Ban Meta.

00:09:53 ◼   ► And as soon as they arrive, I'm going to unbox them,

00:09:55 ◼   ► make sure everything is OK,

00:09:57 ◼   ► package them up again, send them to Lensology in the UK,

00:10:01 ◼   ► and then wait for the glasses to come back with prescription lenses,

00:10:06 ◼   ► which apparently I cannot get in Italy in any official way.

00:10:10 ◼   ► Right. Did you buy the Ferrari ones?

00:10:13 ◼   ► -Oh, no, I did not do that. -Did you see the Ferrari ones?

00:10:15 ◼   ► I saw them this morning.

00:10:17 ◼   ► I was like, "No, I am not going to do that."

00:10:19 ◼   ► They're a limited edition Ferrari.

00:10:21 ◼   ► They're blue because Ferrari's doing a whole blue thing right now.

00:10:24 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I'm going with...

00:10:25 ◼   ► I went with the standard black frame model.

00:10:28 ◼   ► What I find frustrating, because I was looking at these two today,

00:10:31 ◼   ► is that all of the product imagery shows these semi-translucent ones,

00:10:35 ◼   ► which I know you can get, I think, maybe in the States,

00:10:38 ◼   ► but you can't buy those on the UK website.

00:10:40 ◼   ► But the imagery is all over showing the semi-translucent ones,

00:10:44 ◼   ► which look really cool.

00:10:45 ◼   ► Aren't those like the... Are those the transition lenses?

00:10:49 ◼   ► No, they have the actual body of the Ray-Ban.

00:10:54 ◼   ► You can see into it.

00:10:55 ◼   ► -They're like... -Oh, yeah.

00:10:57 ◼   ► Oh, the translucent frame.

00:10:59 ◼   ► Interesting. Yeah, I saw that.

00:11:01 ◼   ► Yeah, I just got the standard black.

00:11:04 ◼   ► I'm excited to hear what you have to say about them.

00:11:06 ◼   ► There's a couple of things.

00:11:07 ◼   ► One, they got official Apple Music support.

00:11:09 ◼   ► That was why I finally decided I got to do it.

00:11:14 ◼   ► -Yeah, Apple Music. -The reason I want these

00:11:17 ◼   ► is also the reason I'm not buying them right now, I think.

00:11:21 ◼   ► So they just got support for Meta's multimodal AI.

00:11:25 ◼   ► So you can look at something and I think you say like,

00:11:28 ◼   ► "Hey, Meta, look at this and da-da-da-da-da."

00:11:30 ◼   ► And it takes a picture, uploads it, I think, via your phone, probably,

00:11:35 ◼   ► and then tells you what you're seeing.

00:11:39 ◼   ► So I'm going to give a couple of quotes from Victoria's song

00:11:42 ◼   ► over at The Verge.

00:11:43 ◼   ► The song says, "To me, it's the mix of a familiar form factor

00:11:47 ◼   ► and decent execution that makes the AI workable on these glasses.

00:11:50 ◼   ► Because it's paired to your phone,

00:11:52 ◼   ► there's very little wait time for answers.

00:11:53 ◼   ► It's headphones, so you feel less silly talking to them

00:11:56 ◼   ► because you're already used to talking through earbuds.

00:11:59 ◼   ► In general, I found the AI to be the most helpful

00:12:02 ◼   ► at identifying things when we're out and about.

00:12:03 ◼   ► It's a natural extension of what I do anyway with my phone.

00:12:06 ◼   ► I find something I'm curious about, snap a picture and look it up.

00:12:09 ◼   ► Provided you don't need to zoom really far in,

00:12:11 ◼   ► this is a case where it's nice to not pull out your phone."

00:12:14 ◼   ► And I've also included in the show notes an Instagram reel

00:12:17 ◼   ► that Cleo Abram made that just show a good example

00:12:21 ◼   ► of the kinds of things you could use something like this for.

00:12:25 ◼   ► Where I just think it's at the moment,

00:12:27 ◼   ► I think that the Meta Raybans are the best realisation

00:12:32 ◼   ► of any of this kind of product.

00:12:35 ◼   ► And I haven't used them,

00:12:36 ◼   ► but I'm even including something like Division Pro.

00:12:39 ◼   ► They have a very simple set of things that this thing does

00:12:43 ◼   ► and it looks like it does them really well.

00:12:45 ◼   ► And people like it.

00:12:46 ◼   ► And it looks good because the thing that is the most surprising

00:12:51 ◼   ► is these legitimately just look like a pair of Raybans.

00:12:54 ◼   ► Like there's nothing weird about them.

00:12:56 ◼   ► So...

00:12:57 ◼   ► Yeah, that's why I'm very intrigued.

00:13:01 ◼   ► But it's just a pair of Raybans and they have the cameras

00:13:04 ◼   ► and the microphones and the speakers,

00:13:06 ◼   ► but otherwise you're just wearing sunglasses

00:13:08 ◼   ► and nobody thinks their sunglasses are weird.

00:13:11 ◼   ► So, and it's like, it seems to be that kind of tech

00:13:17 ◼   ► that's like wearable, but doesn't make you look like an idiot.

00:13:21 ◼   ► And also is mostly stays out of the way.

00:13:25 ◼   ► Like I'm gonna use this like mostly like when I'm,

00:13:29 ◼   ► I like to take long walks with the dogs at the park

00:13:33 ◼   ► just by myself with the dogs when Sidwe is at work.

00:13:35 ◼   ► And just listen to a podcast or listen to music

00:13:38 ◼   ► or call my mom or just to take videos of my dogs.

00:13:43 ◼   ► But especially when I have like, I'm handling two dogs

00:13:46 ◼   ► and I need to pull out my phone, like it's inconvenient.

00:13:48 ◼   ► And so having basic access to those functionalities

00:13:51 ◼   ► via sunglasses, it seems pretty neat.

00:13:54 ◼   ► So I'm looking forward to them.

00:13:57 ◼   ► Peter.

00:13:57 ◼   ► - But yeah, the thing that I didn't mention

00:13:59 ◼   ► is this multimodal AI is just in the US right now.

00:14:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:14:03 ◼   ► - So, you know, this is the thing where I have my eye on it.

00:14:06 ◼   ► Like I think I'm very interested

00:14:08 ◼   ► in getting a pair of these.

00:14:10 ◼   ► I think I need a pair of sunglasses.

00:14:12 ◼   ► So the next time I get a pair of sunglasses,

00:14:14 ◼   ► I'm probably just gonna buy these.

00:14:15 ◼   ► 'Cause I like the way first style anyway.

00:14:17 ◼   ► And so maybe I'll just go for this.

00:14:20 ◼   ► And even if I just use them to take photos

00:14:22 ◼   ► on my next vacation, like I'll be happy.

00:14:24 ◼   ► But I want the other features that this thing seems to have.

00:14:28 ◼   ► So it seems pretty cool.

00:14:29 ◼   ► - Peter in Discord said,

00:14:32 ◼   ► "Federico, you can go to an optometrist in Italy

00:14:35 ◼   ► with the glasses and ask them to change the lenses."

00:14:37 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:14:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, they're just Ray-Ban lenses.

00:14:40 ◼   ► Like any optometrist should have those.

00:14:42 ◼   ► - I could just order the lenses and go to an optometrist

00:14:47 ◼   ► and say, "Hey, here's the lenses."

00:14:49 ◼   ► - I don't even think you need to order them.

00:14:51 ◼   ► You could just go to an optometrist in Italy and say,

00:14:53 ◼   ► "Can you put lenses in these?"

00:14:55 ◼   ► They're just Ray-Ban lenses.

00:14:56 ◼   ► So provided they're the same sizes, which I assume they are,

00:15:00 ◼   ► I expect that any optometrist in Italy

00:15:03 ◼   ► would have Ray-Ban lenses that it could give you.

00:15:06 ◼   ► - So here's what I'm gonna do.

00:15:08 ◼   ► I'm gonna receive the glasses.

00:15:09 ◼   ► And then I'm gonna go to the,

00:15:11 ◼   ► there is an optometrist basically in front of my house.

00:15:15 ◼   ► So I'm gonna go down there and be like,

00:15:17 ◼   ► "Hey, can you actually change?"

00:15:19 ◼   ► And if the answer is no for whatever reason,

00:15:21 ◼   ► I will use lensology because I have a backup plan.

00:15:24 ◼   ► - But that is a very good suggestion.

00:15:26 ◼   ► 'Cause it should be relatively trivial for them to do it.

00:15:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:15:32 ◼   ► Maybe I'll just need to order them with my prescription

00:15:35 ◼   ► if they don't have available those types of lenses.

00:15:39 ◼   ► But that seems easier to do than doing the back and forth

00:15:43 ◼   ► with the UK.

00:15:44 ◼   ► - 'Cause I think like Ray-Bans,

00:15:46 ◼   ► they just pop them in and out.

00:15:47 ◼   ► Like I don't think it's like a particularly complicated.

00:15:51 ◼   ► - Cool.

00:15:52 ◼   ► Worst case scenario, I do have a backup plan.

00:15:54 ◼   ► But yeah, thank you, Peter.

00:15:55 ◼   ► That's actually a much more reasonable suggestion.

00:15:57 ◼   ► So yeah, we'll see.

00:15:58 ◼   ► They should arrive next week.

00:16:00 ◼   ► - I'm excited to hear about that.

00:16:02 ◼   ► We also got some first impressions of the Rabbit R1.

00:16:05 ◼   ► We've been talking about this over the last couple of weeks.

00:16:07 ◼   ► That's just gonna happen.

00:16:08 ◼   ► I'm gonna read a couple of quotes

00:16:10 ◼   ► and a couple of things from David Pierce's

00:16:13 ◼   ► Hands On at The Verge.

00:16:15 ◼   ► He says, "Where Humane's AI pin feels like

00:16:17 ◼   ► "a carefully sculpted metal gem,

00:16:19 ◼   ► "the R1 feels like an old-school MP3 player

00:16:22 ◼   ► "crossed with a fidget spinner."

00:16:24 ◼   ► He says that it's a fun little toy.

00:16:26 ◼   ► It does some interesting stuff.

00:16:27 ◼   ► It still has some of the same lag issues

00:16:30 ◼   ► that the AI pin does.

00:16:31 ◼   ► But the fact that it has a screen

00:16:33 ◼   ► which shows loading animations and stuff

00:16:34 ◼   ► makes it feel better.

00:16:36 ◼   ► But similarly to the AI pin,

00:16:38 ◼   ► the Rabbit R1 is missing tons of features

00:16:41 ◼   ► that have been already demoed.

00:16:44 ◼   ► And Pierce says, "So far this thing seems like

00:16:47 ◼   ► "it's trying to be less like a smartphone killer

00:16:49 ◼   ► "and more like the beginnings of a useful companion."

00:16:52 ◼   ► We don't have full reviews yet.

00:16:53 ◼   ► I'm expecting the review will not be glowing, but I think...

00:16:56 ◼   ► When I originally read this,

00:16:59 ◼   ► I thought maybe could at least be better than the AI pin,

00:17:01 ◼   ► but then I saw this thing about a virtual machine

00:17:03 ◼   ► which people seem upset about, and I don't understand it.

00:17:05 ◼   ► - I am sorry, but I cannot take this product seriously

00:17:08 ◼   ► if all it's doing with the apps

00:17:10 ◼   ► is running them in a virtual machine.

00:17:12 ◼   ► - Can you explain it to me?

00:17:13 ◼   ► I don't understand.

00:17:14 ◼   ► - So the idea would be that you don't actually

00:17:17 ◼   ► have the apps running on this device.

00:17:19 ◼   ► You have a virtualized environment,

00:17:21 ◼   ► like say it's running VMware or Parallels or something,

00:17:25 ◼   ► and you log into your accounts on that virtual machine.

00:17:30 ◼   ► So there's like a Mac Mini or a PC somewhere

00:17:34 ◼   ► in the Rabbit cloud,

00:17:36 ◼   ► and it's running a virtual machine for an operating system.

00:17:40 ◼   ► It could be Windows or MacOS or whatever,

00:17:43 ◼   ► and you're logging into those apps, Spotify,

00:17:47 ◼   ► mid journey, I believe.

00:17:50 ◼   ► You're logging into those apps with your credential

00:17:53 ◼   ► on those virtual machines with like no clue

00:17:58 ◼   ► as to what kind of security practices they have in place.

00:18:02 ◼   ► And this to me just smells like amateur hour,

00:18:06 ◼   ► and also like a really serious potential security risk.

00:18:10 ◼   ► Like you're asking people to log into their accounts

00:18:14 ◼   ► with credit cards on file, for example,

00:18:17 ◼   ► on a virtual machine somewhere

00:18:20 ◼   ► that's then streaming down data to the R1.

00:18:24 ◼   ► Like, no, thank you.

00:18:26 ◼   ► I am not doing that.

00:18:28 ◼   ► No, no.

00:18:32 ◼   ► Absolutely not.

00:18:33 ◼   ► And there's actually a GitHub repo called Rabbit Scam.

00:18:38 ◼   ► I don't know how accurate this is.

00:18:43 ◼   ► Oh, it seems like the, huh, interesting.

00:18:45 ◼   ► So real-time followup, that repo is gone.

00:18:47 ◼   ► It is no longer on GitHub.

00:18:49 ◼   ► - Good, good, good.

00:18:50 ◼   ► It's all going great.

00:18:52 ◼   ► - So I actually did check out the repo a few minutes ago.

00:18:58 ◼   ► This person reverse engineered the Rabbit R1 code

00:19:02 ◼   ► and found that all they were doing

00:19:05 ◼   ► was talking to a VM in the cloud.

00:19:07 ◼   ► And there was actually no sign of the large action model

00:19:12 ◼   ► as the Rabbit folks called it.

00:19:16 ◼   ► It was basically just running a bunch of,

00:19:20 ◼   ► oh, what was the name?

00:19:22 ◼   ► They were running essentially a bunch of like browser scripts

00:19:27 ◼   ► instead of like actually automating anything.

00:19:32 ◼   ► I don't recall the name.

00:19:33 ◼   ► It was like a browser scripting technology.

00:19:36 ◼   ► Yeah, nothing too fancy.

00:19:37 ◼   ► And it was mostly talking to a VM.

00:19:40 ◼   ► So, and the Verge, by the way,

00:19:43 ◼   ► the Verge also confirms that it's running the apps

00:19:45 ◼   ► in a virtual machine.

00:19:46 ◼   ► And also David Pierce is concerned

00:19:48 ◼   ► about the security approach there.

00:19:51 ◼   ► So-

00:19:51 ◼   ► - All right.

00:19:52 ◼   ► I expect we'll know more.

00:19:53 ◼   ► Like when people actually reviewing it,

00:19:55 ◼   ► maybe they'll ask more questions of Rabbit.

00:19:57 ◼   ► But this is where we are right now with it

00:19:59 ◼   ► is it seems like a little bit janky to say the least.

00:20:04 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Jam.

00:20:08 ◼   ► If you're a web developer and you work on a team,

00:20:11 ◼   ► you'll know sometimes your teammates send you bug reports

00:20:13 ◼   ► with very little context.

00:20:15 ◼   ► Like maybe just a text description with no screenshot,

00:20:17 ◼   ► console logs or a user ID.

00:20:20 ◼   ► I do this by the way.

00:20:21 ◼   ► This is how I report bugs to Steven.

00:20:23 ◼   ► I just say it, send him screenshots of things.

00:20:26 ◼   ► If that, or like, just like, hey, this thing doesn't work.

00:20:29 ◼   ► But instead of fixing it,

00:20:30 ◼   ► you have to go to the person who made the ticket

00:20:32 ◼   ► to hunt down the right information

00:20:34 ◼   ► or go back and forth over weeks in the ticket comments

00:20:36 ◼   ► to find out if it was local storage APIs,

00:20:38 ◼   ► the response from a network request, cookies at the time,

00:20:41 ◼   ► the time zone you're in.

00:20:42 ◼   ► And it ends up being really frustrating

00:20:44 ◼   ► trying to figure out exactly what went wrong.

00:20:46 ◼   ► You may have heard of Jam.

00:20:47 ◼   ► It's used by more than 90,000 people

00:20:50 ◼   ► because it's a free tool that saves web developers

00:20:52 ◼   ► and designers a ton of time and frustration.

00:20:54 ◼   ► It ensures that your teammates

00:20:55 ◼   ► make the perfect bug report every time.

00:20:58 ◼   ► Maybe Steven's going to make me use Jam now.

00:21:00 ◼   ► They literally can't do it wrong.

00:21:01 ◼   ► It automatically includes a video of the bug,

00:21:03 ◼   ► console logs, network requests,

00:21:05 ◼   ► all the information you need to debug,

00:21:07 ◼   ► like even what was their internet speed.

00:21:09 ◼   ► This sounds awesome.

00:21:10 ◼   ► It even automatically lists out the steps

00:21:12 ◼   ► to reproduce the bug.

00:21:14 ◼   ► It's so easy to get your teammates to use it

00:21:16 ◼   ► because it's just a Chrome extension.

00:21:18 ◼   ► When they see a bug, they just click a button

00:21:20 ◼   ► and right away it creates a ticket in your issue tracker.

00:21:23 ◼   ► So it saves time for them

00:21:24 ◼   ► and it saves you a lot of hopping on calls

00:21:26 ◼   ► and meetings to debug it.

00:21:27 ◼   ► If you're a web developer

00:21:29 ◼   ► and you would rather spend your time writing code

00:21:31 ◼   ► than responding to comments in your issue tracker,

00:21:33 ◼   ► send your team to jam.dev.

00:21:36 ◼   ► That's jam.dev, or you can just click the link

00:21:39 ◼   ► in our show notes.

00:21:39 ◼   ► Our thanks to Jam for their support of this show

00:21:42 ◼   ► and Relay FM.

00:21:43 ◼   ► So last week we were talking about the,

00:21:48 ◼   ► Phil Schiller said to a, I think it was to a German

00:21:52 ◼   ► antitrust hearing or something like that.

00:21:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think so, yeah.

00:21:55 ◼   ► - That people at Apple take no notes.

00:21:57 ◼   ► And we didn't believe that that was the case.

00:22:01 ◼   ► So we put the call out.

00:22:02 ◼   ► - We were right.

00:22:03 ◼   ► - We put the call out and we got tons of,

00:22:07 ◼   ► many, not tons, many, many connected listeners

00:22:10 ◼   ► wrote in anonymously to share their feedback.

00:22:14 ◼   ► And I can personally vouch for two of these.

00:22:17 ◼   ► So like some of them were just sent into us,

00:22:19 ◼   ► but some was sent directly to me.

00:22:21 ◼   ► And I think maybe Steven got one or two as well.

00:22:24 ◼   ► And like, these are people that I can vouch for them.

00:22:26 ◼   ► So I can believe them.

00:22:27 ◼   ► So we have eight pieces of follow up here.

00:22:30 ◼   ► So person one says, there's a role at Apple

00:22:34 ◼   ► called an engineering project manager

00:22:36 ◼   ► who makes sure that the trains run on time

00:22:39 ◼   ► for product development.

00:22:40 ◼   ► They are frequently the ones who take notes

00:22:42 ◼   ► at all meetings so they know what needs to be done,

00:22:45 ◼   ► who needs to do it and when it needs to be done by.

00:22:48 ◼   ► All right, so point one, there's people in every meeting

00:22:51 ◼   ► who are taking notes.

00:22:52 ◼   ► So that's the first part.

00:22:54 ◼   ► So even if you're not doing it, someone is.

00:22:56 ◼   ► Which makes sense, right?

00:22:56 ◼   ► The project manager has to keep track

00:22:59 ◼   ► of what everyone says they're gonna do.

00:23:01 ◼   ► How on earth are they gonna do that

00:23:03 ◼   ► if they're not taking notes?

00:23:04 ◼   ► Like this is just the way that teams work together, right?

00:23:07 ◼   ► So two, I work at Apple and take notes

00:23:11 ◼   ► in every meeting for my own use.

00:23:13 ◼   ► There's also almost always someone else specifically

00:23:16 ◼   ► assigned to take notes, which is probably

00:23:18 ◼   ► the engineering project manager, right?

00:23:20 ◼   ► If not a minutes person.

00:23:22 ◼   ► Person three, yes, Apple employees take notes in meetings.

00:23:25 ◼   ► There's a particular type of person that I hate.

00:23:27 ◼   ► The people who lead regular meetings,

00:23:30 ◼   ► like weekly project update meetings

00:23:32 ◼   ► and don't have an agenda or take notes

00:23:34 ◼   ► and send out the minutes afterwards.

00:23:35 ◼   ► I don't go to their meetings because they waste people's time

00:23:38 ◼   ► when they have no structure.

00:23:39 ◼   ► I mean, this just sounds like corporate meeting culture.

00:23:42 ◼   ► This is exactly what we were saying.

00:23:44 ◼   ► I would not believe that Apple does not work

00:23:46 ◼   ► like every other business in the world.

00:23:48 ◼   ► That there are people that take notes

00:23:49 ◼   ► and people that don't,

00:23:50 ◼   ► and the people that take notes are effective, right?

00:23:53 ◼   ► Person four, people absolutely take notes at Apple.

00:23:57 ◼   ► I mean, I don't for the most part,

00:23:58 ◼   ► but at the very least our project manager emails

00:24:01 ◼   ► out brief notes after every meeting.

00:24:03 ◼   ► There's certainly no policy against it

00:24:05 ◼   ► and I've never heard of such a thing.

00:24:07 ◼   ► - Okay, all right.

00:24:08 ◼   ► So at what point do we start believing

00:24:11 ◼   ► that Phil Schiller personally never took any notes?

00:24:15 ◼   ► - I actually, in a minute there is, let me jump to this one.

00:24:18 ◼   ► So person seven wrote in to say the quote,

00:24:20 ◼   ► "No notes thing" was the case with the old God.

00:24:24 ◼   ► This was for taking meeting notes

00:24:25 ◼   ► and for having notes in presentations.

00:24:28 ◼   ► The sound of pencils was considered unacceptable.

00:24:31 ◼   ► But this is changing.

00:24:33 ◼   ► Not only do people take notes in all meetings,

00:24:35 ◼   ► usually people even have teleprompters now

00:24:38 ◼   ► for their presentations.

00:24:39 ◼   ► So like, this was a Steve Jobs thing.

00:24:41 ◼   ► For sure.

00:24:42 ◼   ► - They have gone from a vibes based product direction

00:24:46 ◼   ► to teleprompters.

00:24:47 ◼   ► That's a great improvement.

00:24:49 ◼   ► - But like, look, I think this is exactly the thing

00:24:52 ◼   ► that we expected was the case.

00:24:53 ◼   ► Was like Steve Jobs had some weird ideas about note-taking

00:24:57 ◼   ► and then people who have been there for long enough

00:25:00 ◼   ► kind of just got used to the way that he does things.

00:25:02 ◼   ► But that doesn't mean that it's good or whatever.

00:25:04 ◼   ► It's just not the way that people work now.

00:25:06 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:25:07 ◼   ► Person five said of taking notes

00:25:09 ◼   ► in basically every single meeting I've ever been in,

00:25:11 ◼   ► including ones with higher ups,

00:25:13 ◼   ► and so does everyone else.

00:25:14 ◼   ► It's kind of weird if someone isn't.

00:25:16 ◼   ► - There you go.

00:25:17 ◼   ► And I know person five.

00:25:19 ◼   ► This is one of the ones that's into me.

00:25:20 ◼   ► And I know the kind of people that they meet with.

00:25:23 ◼   ► And so like, you know, maybe Phil's not taken his notes,

00:25:28 ◼   ► but there are notes taken in meetings with people

00:25:30 ◼   ► on his level, for sure.

00:25:31 ◼   ► - Maybe Phil never noticed that notes were being taken

00:25:34 ◼   ► in his presence.

00:25:35 ◼   ► - He just doesn't know what note-taking is?

00:25:38 ◼   ► No, Phil is gonna listen to this episode

00:25:40 ◼   ► and be like his whole life is gonna flash before his eyes

00:25:43 ◼   ► and be like, people were taking notes around me.

00:25:45 ◼   ► - 'Cause he's like, stop it, all of you.

00:25:47 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:25:49 ◼   ► - You all were taking notes for the past 30 years

00:25:51 ◼   ► and I never noticed.

00:25:53 ◼   ► - Person six.

00:25:54 ◼   ► I am an individual contributor at Apple.

00:25:57 ◼   ► I don't know what that means,

00:25:58 ◼   ► but they say we absolutely take notes during meetings,

00:26:01 ◼   ► but we do not keep detailed minutes.

00:26:03 ◼   ► Often the organizer or presenter

00:26:05 ◼   ► or someone from their team will jot down

00:26:06 ◼   ► all the action items that need to be revisited

00:26:09 ◼   ► or key decisions that were made.

00:26:10 ◼   ► We don't capture discussion details usually

00:26:12 ◼   ► as they're not as useful later.

00:26:14 ◼   ► These notes are frequently emailed to meeting participants.

00:26:17 ◼   ► Sometimes entire discussions happen only over email.

00:26:20 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:26:21 ◼   ► - Somebody, Zach in the chat says,

00:26:23 ◼   ► individual contributor means not a manager.

00:26:25 ◼   ► I have never heard of this phrase.

00:26:27 ◼   ► This may be something that's popped up in the last 10 years

00:26:29 ◼   ► that I've been out of the corporate world.

00:26:31 ◼   ► Individual contributor, isn't everyone?

00:26:36 ◼   ► - So I guess it just means employee?

00:26:39 ◼   ► - I guess, but that is a very weird phrase to me.

00:26:42 ◼   ► It's common in software development apparently.

00:26:46 ◼   ► It still doesn't help me.

00:26:47 ◼   ► Like I understand it's being proven to us

00:26:50 ◼   ► that people say this,

00:26:51 ◼   ► but I don't know why you would use that phrase.

00:26:56 ◼   ► So Carl says it also means a person

00:26:58 ◼   ► who does not have any direct reports.

00:27:00 ◼   ► Again, an employee.

00:27:02 ◼   ► I don't understand, nevermind.

00:27:05 ◼   ► - There was already a word in the English language for it.

00:27:07 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:27:08 ◼   ► - And now we're using two words.

00:27:09 ◼   ► - Again, that's corporate culture though, right?

00:27:11 ◼   ► Like creating terms and phrases

00:27:13 ◼   ► where there are already terms and phrases,

00:27:15 ◼   ► but we have new ones.

00:27:16 ◼   ► - Hey, here's a hot take for you.

00:27:18 ◼   ► Is corporate culture and corporate language

00:27:21 ◼   ► actually bad for the environment

00:27:22 ◼   ► because of carbon emissions from people's mouths?

00:27:24 ◼   ► - Possibly.

00:27:26 ◼   ► And finally person eight says,

00:27:28 ◼   ► my experience is most meetings have a shared document

00:27:31 ◼   ► usually quip or confluence

00:27:34 ◼   ► in which someone keeps track of what was discussed.

00:27:36 ◼   ► Although there are often meetings

00:27:38 ◼   ► without any notes taken such as demo sessions,

00:27:40 ◼   ► but individuals are free

00:27:41 ◼   ► to take personal notes as they please.

00:27:43 ◼   ► So let's, I think we can put it to rest

00:27:45 ◼   ► that people do take notes at Apple.

00:27:47 ◼   ► Most people seem to take notes at Apple

00:27:49 ◼   ► and it doesn't seem to matter who you're meeting with.

00:27:52 ◼   ► Maybe Phil Schiller isn't taking his own personal notes,

00:27:55 ◼   ► but there are notes of the meetings that Phil's in.

00:27:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:27:59 ◼   ► Phil, you should have taken some notes

00:28:00 ◼   ► and you should have noticed

00:28:02 ◼   ► that people around you were taking notes.

00:28:03 ◼   ► - He doesn't know, he has no idea.

00:28:05 ◼   ► Phil's never taken a note, doesn't take a note.

00:28:07 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:28:08 ◼   ► - And I may, if I may, Phil, if you're listening to this,

00:28:12 ◼   ► the notes app is pretty good.

00:28:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, you should check it out.

00:28:17 ◼   ► You make a good one.

00:28:18 ◼   ► I can't wait to see what you do with it, Phil.

00:28:21 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:28:22 ◼   ► This did make me wanna ask

00:28:24 ◼   ► how we're taking notes right now.

00:28:28 ◼   ► I see your notes in the documents,

00:28:29 ◼   ► so I'm gonna come to you second.

00:28:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:28:32 ◼   ► - I think maybe I should start with you.

00:28:35 ◼   ► So for me, my note taking right now happens in three places.

00:28:38 ◼   ► So Apple Notes, Apple Notes is like where I put

00:28:41 ◼   ► all my little bits of text, all random stuff,

00:28:43 ◼   ► and it's also where I keep links for a show to prep

00:28:45 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:28:46 ◼   ► But Apple Notes is the place that I usually go to first,

00:28:49 ◼   ► unless it's something to do with Cortex brand

00:28:52 ◼   ► where everything goes in Notion, everything.

00:28:54 ◼   ► And so, 'cause I just like that,

00:28:57 ◼   ► it keeps it nice and sequestered

00:28:59 ◼   ► and I'm able to link everything together and stuff like that.

00:29:02 ◼   ► But then I also take a lot of physical notes,

00:29:04 ◼   ► which I use my Sidekick notepad for mostly,

00:29:07 ◼   ► for my note taking.

00:29:09 ◼   ► 'Cause I like physical notes for meetings

00:29:11 ◼   ► or for just for when I'm working at my desk,

00:29:14 ◼   ► if I'm on a call with someone, I'll take physical notes.

00:29:18 ◼   ► So that's kind of me.

00:29:19 ◼   ► How are you taking notes right now?

00:29:21 ◼   ► - I'm gonna channel my inner CGP Grey here with you, Mike.

00:29:26 ◼   ► I mean, what are notes?

00:29:28 ◼   ► - What is it about my life that people keep saying

00:29:32 ◼   ► this to at me?

00:29:33 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:29:34 ◼   ► I have multiple people now who just keeps,

00:29:36 ◼   ► what are notes really?

00:29:38 ◼   ► Like, I don't understand what's hard to understand.

00:29:41 ◼   ► No?

00:29:44 ◼   ► - No, no, we're not making this about you right now.

00:29:47 ◼   ► - Right, right, okay.

00:29:48 ◼   ► Fair enough.

00:29:49 ◼   ► - No, but really. - Makes sense.

00:29:52 ◼   ► - No, but really this is something

00:29:53 ◼   ► that I'm struggling with, like for real.

00:29:56 ◼   ► So my thing is, I've thought about this

00:30:00 ◼   ► for the past few weeks.

00:30:01 ◼   ► We touched upon it in the Obsidian episode of App Stories

00:30:05 ◼   ► with Jon.

00:30:07 ◼   ► The thing is, I've realized something about myself

00:30:09 ◼   ► is that I don't really take notes.

00:30:11 ◼   ► What I do is I take notes that become articles.

00:30:16 ◼   ► I take notes that become podcast show notes.

00:30:19 ◼   ► But I've realized that it's been a while.

00:30:22 ◼   ► Like, I don't really take notes that stay notes.

00:30:25 ◼   ► That's my thing right now,

00:30:27 ◼   ► like this realization that I've had.

00:30:29 ◼   ► That feels, most of my notes are notes to become a thing.

00:30:34 ◼   ► Like, it starts as a note,

00:30:36 ◼   ► but will become something else later on.

00:30:38 ◼   ► Like, I kind of see notes as a transient place.

00:30:43 ◼   ► - Right, right. - A note is either

00:30:45 ◼   ► gonna become something or I get rid of it.

00:30:48 ◼   ► And they'll just stay forever as this little text.

00:30:52 ◼   ► - Right, so that's exactly what I tried to explain to Jon.

00:30:55 ◼   ► And that is like a huge change for me

00:30:57 ◼   ► over the past six months,

00:30:58 ◼   ► as being my embrace of the inbox in the Things app,

00:31:02 ◼   ► my task manager.

00:31:04 ◼   ► I guess I'm using that for notes.

00:31:08 ◼   ► Like, just over the past six months,

00:31:10 ◼   ► it's become a habit for me.

00:31:12 ◼   ► Just anything that I find and that I'm like,

00:31:17 ◼   ► "Oh, this looks cool, I wanna deal with it later."

00:31:19 ◼   ► Or, "Oh, this is nice, I need to remember it."

00:31:21 ◼   ► Like, it goes into my Things inbox.

00:31:24 ◼   ► I have a recurring reminder in Things.

00:31:27 ◼   ► Every two days, review my inbox.

00:31:30 ◼   ► So every two days, I go there,

00:31:31 ◼   ► I'm like, "Okay, what did I save?"

00:31:33 ◼   ► And I'm gonna maybe dislike,

00:31:34 ◼   ► "Okay, this is something that I need to buy.

00:31:36 ◼   ► "I'm gonna buy it right now."

00:31:37 ◼   ► Or maybe this is something for later,

00:31:39 ◼   ► it needs to go into a project.

00:31:40 ◼   ► So I guess the inbox is a place

00:31:43 ◼   ► for some of those transient notes.

00:31:46 ◼   ► But like, some people would say,

00:31:47 ◼   ► "Well, no, those are tasks.

00:31:49 ◼   ► "Those are not notes.

00:31:49 ◼   ► "Those are tasks that you're then sitting down

00:31:52 ◼   ► "and following the GTD methodology.

00:31:55 ◼   ► "You're now processing your inbox."

00:31:57 ◼   ► And I'm like, "Okay, so maybe those are not notes."

00:31:59 ◼   ► And therefore, I am left with this thought of like,

00:32:03 ◼   ► I use Obsidian, and I really like using Obsidian.

00:32:06 ◼   ► I do have some long-term notes,

00:32:11 ◼   ► usually thoughts about site redesign or something.

00:32:16 ◼   ► But mostly, my Obsidian is just outlines

00:32:22 ◼   ► and drafts of things I need to turn into articles,

00:32:25 ◼   ► eventually. - Yeah.

00:32:27 ◼   ► That's a note to me.

00:32:28 ◼   ► For me, a note is a piece of text

00:32:31 ◼   ► that something will happen to later on.

00:32:34 ◼   ► Either it could be a phone number

00:32:37 ◼   ► or an address that I've just taken down in a note

00:32:39 ◼   ► 'cause I couldn't put it in the place it was supposed to go.

00:32:42 ◼   ► It's always kind of like, it lives in a place,

00:32:44 ◼   ► and then it becomes something else,

00:32:46 ◼   ► or it goes somewhere else.

00:32:48 ◼   ► I take a bunch of notes about a project that I'm working on,

00:32:51 ◼   ► and then those notes become the project, right?

00:32:55 ◼   ► It's just like a temporary spot.

00:32:57 ◼   ► - Okay, so I guess then I'm using Obsidian,

00:32:59 ◼   ► and I'm using the Things inbox,

00:33:01 ◼   ► especially with my own shortcut, Things box,

00:33:05 ◼   ► that I shared a few months ago in Club Max Stories.

00:33:09 ◼   ► I'm personally using that a lot.

00:33:11 ◼   ► Like, it's on my home screen. - That makes sense.

00:33:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, that's what I...

00:33:13 ◼   ► Yeah, the inbox, it's a nice place to be.

00:33:16 ◼   ► - I will just say, Jose, you put this so perfectly.

00:33:19 ◼   ► Mike is creator of notebooks.

00:33:21 ◼   ► Everyone in Mike's life

00:33:22 ◼   ► questions the mere existence of notes.

00:33:24 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:33:26 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe that's the sort of vibe you're giving off.

00:33:29 ◼   ► Like, you as the creator of notebooks,

00:33:30 ◼   ► and everybody around you is like, what are notes, Mike?

00:33:34 ◼   ► - What is it then?

00:33:35 ◼   ► I could just destabilize it more.

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00:36:20 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:36:23 ◼   ► - He isn't here as we mentioned.

00:36:24 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:36:25 ◼   ► - But he left us something in the document.

00:36:27 ◼   ► It says, "Don't click this until you're alive."

00:36:30 ◼   ► Should we click it?

00:36:31 ◼   ► - Okay, we are live, so we should click it.

00:36:33 ◼   ► - Okay, I've clicked it.

00:36:35 ◼   ► I've got to Android authority.

00:36:36 ◼   ► - Oh my God, no, Stephen, no, no.

00:36:39 ◼   ► - God damn this guy.

00:36:41 ◼   ► Report, Samsung phones are developing a green line issue

00:36:46 ◼   ► after software updates.

00:36:47 ◼   ► - He trolled us from far away.

00:36:49 ◼   ► - This is like the Stephen version of a Rick roll,

00:36:52 ◼   ► like a green roll.

00:36:53 ◼   ► Like what would it be?

00:36:54 ◼   ► Like, I don't know.

00:36:56 ◼   ► Well, that was a waste of, I was excited for this.

00:37:01 ◼   ► You know what I thought?

00:37:02 ◼   ► I thought we bought a new computer.

00:37:03 ◼   ► That's what I thought.

00:37:04 ◼   ► - That was a waste of time, Stephen.

00:37:06 ◼   ► Not thank you.

00:37:07 ◼   ► What is the opposite of thank you?

00:37:09 ◼   ► Well, we cannot say.

00:37:11 ◼   ► - Well, we can't say on the show, I think.

00:37:13 ◼   ► (both laughing)

00:37:15 ◼   ► But you know, it sounds like thank you at least.

00:37:18 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:37:19 ◼   ► - You know?

00:37:21 ◼   ► Moving on, let's talk about, because Stephen's not here,

00:37:23 ◼   ► now we can talk about video games.

00:37:25 ◼   ► - Yes, yes.

00:37:27 ◼   ► - I wanted to check in with you actually,

00:37:28 ◼   ► 'cause on last week's episode, you installed Alt Store.

00:37:32 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, I did.

00:37:33 ◼   ► - And there was something I didn't ask you,

00:37:35 ◼   ► 'cause I know that Delta and Clip

00:37:38 ◼   ► is the clipboard manager on Alt Store.

00:37:40 ◼   ► Is there anything else on Alt Store?

00:37:42 ◼   ► - No, no, it's nothing else.

00:37:45 ◼   ► Nothing else.

00:37:48 ◼   ► And for context, I am using the US App Store version

00:37:52 ◼   ► of Delta, but I am using obviously Clip from Alt Store.

00:37:57 ◼   ► And man, Clip has been a game changer in the past week,

00:38:02 ◼   ► to the point where it's earned a spot on my home screen.

00:38:08 ◼   ► I'm actually thinking about putting it in the dock.

00:38:10 ◼   ► And it's one of those things where it makes you realize,

00:38:15 ◼   ► how did I go all these years without this functionality?

00:38:19 ◼   ► It's copy and paste level of a game changer for me.

00:38:22 ◼   ► Like now, whenever I copy something,

00:38:25 ◼   ► a notification pops up and I'm like,

00:38:27 ◼   ► yeah, I wanna save this

00:38:28 ◼   ► and I'm coming back to this in a minute.

00:38:29 ◼   ► Like it's been especially useful for like research,

00:38:32 ◼   ► like we talked about this in the pre-show,

00:38:34 ◼   ► researching motors that I may check out

00:38:37 ◼   ► to replace my studio display.

00:38:38 ◼   ► There's the whole story in the pre-show.

00:38:40 ◼   ► Where can people get the pre-show, Mike?

00:38:42 ◼   ► - Get connected to Pro.co.

00:38:43 ◼   ► - Thank you.

00:38:44 ◼   ► So I was comparing different monitors

00:38:46 ◼   ► and I was copying the model numbers of the monitors

00:38:50 ◼   ► I wanted to check out.

00:38:51 ◼   ► And before I would have to like,

00:38:53 ◼   ► okay, copy this model number,

00:38:54 ◼   ► but then I also need to copy another one.

00:38:56 ◼   ► But first, let me save this in like an iMessage to myself

00:39:00 ◼   ► or somewhere in the Notes app.

00:39:02 ◼   ► But now, no, I'm just copying the things that I need,

00:39:06 ◼   ► confirming the Clip notification,

00:39:08 ◼   ► and then I'm going back to Clip

00:39:09 ◼   ► and I find all the things that I copied.

00:39:11 ◼   ► It's like, it's so much easier than before.

00:39:14 ◼   ► I do wish that Clip had some,

00:39:17 ◼   ► like all of these, like both Delta and Clip and Alt+R,

00:39:21 ◼   ► they seem pretty bare bones to me.

00:39:23 ◼   ► Like Clip doesn't have any shortcuts integration,

00:39:25 ◼   ► for example.

00:39:26 ◼   ► I would like to have some shortcuts actions for Clip

00:39:28 ◼   ► where I can like do things like get the latest,

00:39:32 ◼   ► I don't know, 10 items from my clipboard

00:39:34 ◼   ► and merge them together.

00:39:35 ◼   ► Like that sort of thing, I wish that I could do.

00:39:38 ◼   ► Sometimes I get like random Clip pop-ups,

00:39:43 ◼   ► like conditions for like your clipboard changed

00:39:47 ◼   ► and it actually didn't.

00:39:49 ◼   ► So I think it's a combination of bugs with the Clip app,

00:39:52 ◼   ► but also I realized that universal clipboard.

00:39:56 ◼   ► - Oh, so it's gonna be my guess.

00:39:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:39:59 ◼   ► So if I copy something on my Mac right now,

00:40:02 ◼   ► like I'm copying something,

00:40:03 ◼   ► a notification pops up on my phone.

00:40:05 ◼   ► - Isn't that pretty cool though, in a way?

00:40:08 ◼   ► Like it's not doing what you put,

00:40:09 ◼   ► that's now like it is a universal clipboard manager.

00:40:14 ◼   ► - Yes, yes, it's very cool.

00:40:16 ◼   ► And I guess maybe the downside is that it may lead

00:40:20 ◼   ► to some of these Phantom activations for clipboard changes,

00:40:24 ◼   ► but it's okay.

00:40:25 ◼   ► I will happily live with that trade off

00:40:28 ◼   ► if I can have a clipboard manager on my phone.

00:40:30 ◼   ► - Can you imagine if it was giving you that like,

00:40:33 ◼   ► that pop-up, do you remember it was that like,

00:40:36 ◼   ► remember when we had that pop-up

00:40:37 ◼   ► like that came up on the phones for a while?

00:40:39 ◼   ► Like with every time you used a clipboard

00:40:41 ◼   ► and it would pop up on the top of the screen?

00:40:43 ◼   ► - Yes, yes.

00:40:45 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:40:46 ◼   ► You do get that pop-up still.

00:40:48 ◼   ► - There is a version of it, but it's not as bad as it was.

00:40:50 ◼   ► - On the Vision Pro, on the Vision Pro,

00:40:52 ◼   ► whenever you copy something, there's that pop-up

00:40:54 ◼   ► and there's no way to say turn it off,

00:40:56 ◼   ► at least in the current version of Vision OS.

00:40:59 ◼   ► So yeah.

00:41:00 ◼   ► But no other updates from Alt Store

00:41:02 ◼   ► and no third-party sources yet that I've seen.

00:41:06 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:41:07 ◼   ► Let's talk about Delta.

00:41:09 ◼   ► So Delta is the emulator, it came out last week's show.

00:41:12 ◼   ► I have been putting an immense amount of time

00:41:17 ◼   ► into playing Pokemon on my iPhone,

00:41:20 ◼   ► which I will tell you right now

00:41:21 ◼   ► is one of the greatest things that's ever happened to me.

00:41:24 ◼   ► I love it.

00:41:25 ◼   ► One of the things that I'm noticing,

00:41:29 ◼   ► I've put 16 hours into Pokemon HeartGold,

00:41:33 ◼   ► which I realize I only play once.

00:41:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, me too, actually, I think.

00:41:41 ◼   ► - And people always say that HeartGold

00:41:43 ◼   ► is maybe the best game,

00:41:44 ◼   ► so I'm having a great time playing through it right now.

00:41:47 ◼   ► And it's also been a good test of an upcoming app

00:41:50 ◼   ► from friend of the show, Ben McCarthy, called CatchUp,

00:41:53 ◼   ► which is a absolutely beautiful Pokedex app.

00:41:58 ◼   ► I'll put a link in the show notes.

00:42:01 ◼   ► - We're gonna have a review on Mac stories tomorrow.

00:42:03 ◼   ► It's excellent utility.

00:42:05 ◼   ► If you're a Pokemon fan,

00:42:06 ◼   ► Ben did some incredible work to parse

00:42:09 ◼   ► the millions of lines of data

00:42:12 ◼   ► that involve hundreds of Pokemon from multiple generations.

00:42:17 ◼   ► It's incredible work.

00:42:19 ◼   ► - It's really amazing.

00:42:20 ◼   ► I'm gonna put a link in the show notes

00:42:22 ◼   ► to Ben's Threads account,

00:42:25 ◼   ► 'cause I know that there'll be posted about it there.

00:42:27 ◼   ► Yeah, but also look out for the review on Mac stories.

00:42:30 ◼   ► Yeah, it comes out tomorrow as we call it on the 25th,

00:42:32 ◼   ► but I've been testing it out, and it is superb.

00:42:36 ◼   ► I've used a lot of these apps in the past,

00:42:38 ◼   ► like this is the one.

00:42:39 ◼   ► And so it's been, you know, it was funny,

00:42:41 ◼   ► when Ben sent it to me, I was like,

00:42:42 ◼   ► "Oh, it looks really nice."

00:42:43 ◼   ► And I gave them some feedback, but I was like,

00:42:45 ◼   ► "I don't have a use for it right now."

00:42:47 ◼   ► Then I started playing Pokemon.

00:42:49 ◼   ► Let's go, baby, I need to know.

00:42:51 ◼   ► What's the moves from my red Gyarados?

00:42:52 ◼   ► You know, someone's gonna tell me.

00:42:55 ◼   ► So I'm having a great time with that.

00:42:58 ◼   ► But yeah, I got the Razer Kishi Ultra controller.

00:43:02 ◼   ► - Nice, nice, okay.

00:43:04 ◼   ► I am on your side, you mentioned this on Unwind, I think,

00:43:08 ◼   ► the idea of having a controller

00:43:10 ◼   ► that could hold the iPhone in portrait.

00:43:11 ◼   ► - Ah, I have something for you, Mike.

00:43:13 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:43:15 ◼   ► - So go to this link, it's called the JoyPhone.

00:43:18 ◼   ► It's a 3D printed attachment for JoyCons

00:43:22 ◼   ► that you can place to the sides of your phone

00:43:25 ◼   ► in portrait mode.

00:43:26 ◼   ► I, yeah, so I had to have John buy them for me

00:43:31 ◼   ► because they were not shipping to Italy,

00:43:33 ◼   ► but maybe they will ship to the UK.

00:43:35 ◼   ► So that's the link, the JoyPhone.

00:43:38 ◼   ► I've seen a bunch of people on Reddit

00:43:40 ◼   ► over the past week or so come up with similar designs,

00:43:45 ◼   ► and this seems to be the better one so far.

00:43:49 ◼   ► - I will say, though, at least for playing,

00:43:52 ◼   ► 'cause I'm playing a Nintendo DS game, right,

00:43:54 ◼   ► using the Razer Kishi in landscape is really nice

00:44:00 ◼   ► because Delta just gives you the two screens next

00:44:03 ◼   ► to each other.

00:44:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, but they're put side by side,

00:44:06 ◼   ► whereas for the DS, it's supposed to be one above the other.

00:44:09 ◼   ► - I know, but it is more comfortable.

00:44:12 ◼   ► - It's good enough, though.

00:44:13 ◼   ► - In a landscape orientation to play.

00:44:16 ◼   ► And the Kishi is a great controller.

00:44:19 ◼   ► It's also this controller, it can natively extend

00:44:23 ◼   ► to put an iPad Mini in it.

00:44:26 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, that's nice. - Which is kinda cool.

00:44:27 ◼   ► Yeah, the Kishi is nice, it's got great buttons,

00:44:29 ◼   ► the whole effect and all that kinda stuff.

00:44:31 ◼   ► Something else that I was doing, which was awesome,

00:44:34 ◼   ► I was playing on my Vision Pro,

00:44:38 ◼   ► 'cause you can download the iPhone app.

00:44:40 ◼   ► I was playing Pokemon with a controller

00:44:44 ◼   ► while also watching a YouTube video while in an environment.

00:44:47 ◼   ► Dude, it was amazing.

00:44:50 ◼   ► It was incredible.

00:44:51 ◼   ► And all of it's kept in sync using Delta Sync over Dropbox,

00:44:56 ◼   ► which is, it works, but you have to,

00:44:58 ◼   ► it's just one of these things where like,

00:45:00 ◼   ► make sure you have uploaded

00:45:02 ◼   ► and then make sure you've downloaded to save, right?

00:45:04 ◼   ► It's not hard, but it's like,

00:45:06 ◼   ► it's honestly better than Steam Sync.

00:45:09 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:45:11 ◼   ► - Not a high bar.

00:45:12 ◼   ► So I wanted to bring something to the show.

00:45:16 ◼   ► So I don't know if I sent you this link a few days ago.

00:45:20 ◼   ► I don't know if any of our listeners are familiar with it.

00:45:22 ◼   ► So there's this fork of Delta called Ignited

00:45:28 ◼   ► that seems to be like based on Delta.

00:45:31 ◼   ► And then like the developer has been working on it

00:45:35 ◼   ► for over a year and it's still in test flight beta mode.

00:45:39 ◼   ► I believe they're working to release it

00:45:41 ◼   ► on the App Store soon,

00:45:43 ◼   ► but there have been like over 50 updates for the,

00:45:47 ◼   ► it requires a Patreon membership.

00:45:49 ◼   ► There've been over 50 updates to the app.

00:45:51 ◼   ► And so I signed up out of curiosity

00:45:54 ◼   ► and it seems to be based on Delta.

00:45:56 ◼   ► Like it's got the structure of Delta.

00:45:58 ◼   ► I'm not sure what the deal is between Delta and Ignited.

00:46:01 ◼   ► Like if there's some kind of like actual collaboration

00:46:05 ◼   ► or deal between them, I don't know the details.

00:46:07 ◼   ► I just know that Ignited is like the power user version

00:46:10 ◼   ► of Delta, essentially.

00:46:12 ◼   ► - If I, so now I've been playing so much in Delta.

00:46:15 ◼   ► Wouldn't I save? - No, it doesn't matter.

00:46:18 ◼   ► It doesn't matter because the GBA emulator

00:46:20 ◼   ► is always saving the files in a specific format

00:46:22 ◼   ► that is GBA universal.

00:46:24 ◼   ► Like you can actually- - So like it's saving it

00:46:26 ◼   ► to my ROM file?

00:46:28 ◼   ► - No, it's creating a separate .sav file

00:46:32 ◼   ► that you can actually take that .sav file

00:46:36 ◼   ► and put it on your Mac or something and keep playing there.

00:46:40 ◼   ► Like it's totally fine. - What?

00:46:42 ◼   ► Where?

00:46:42 ◼   ► Where is that?

00:46:43 ◼   ► I mean, like where?

00:46:45 ◼   ► I'll find it.

00:46:46 ◼   ► I'm sure it's saving it somewhere.

00:46:47 ◼   ► - Just long, long press on your game

00:46:49 ◼   ► and say export save file, I think.

00:46:52 ◼   ► - Oh, so I would do it in Delta.

00:46:53 ◼   ► - In Delta, in Delta.

00:46:54 ◼   ► And it gives you a .sav file and you can take that

00:46:59 ◼   ► and use it anywhere.

00:47:00 ◼   ► Any other emulator. - So what do you like

00:47:01 ◼   ► about Ignited?

00:47:02 ◼   ► Like so many of them.

00:47:03 ◼   ► - I think it's got a better UI.

00:47:06 ◼   ► Like the default theme is really well done.

00:47:09 ◼   ► I think it has, it's kind of difficult

00:47:11 ◼   ► because there's a whole documentation page

00:47:14 ◼   ► that I still need to read.

00:47:15 ◼   ► I think what it does offer is a lot of like

00:47:20 ◼   ► quality of life features.

00:47:22 ◼   ► Like better messages whenever you start playing a game.

00:47:26 ◼   ► Like there's an easier way to access the emulator menu.

00:47:30 ◼   ► There's like a native screenshot functionality.

00:47:33 ◼   ► There's a way to apply themes and controller skins

00:47:38 ◼   ► to specific games.

00:47:39 ◼   ► Like there's a lot of, it's the,

00:47:42 ◼   ► I don't know how to describe it.

00:47:43 ◼   ► Like it's the iCAB of Delta.

00:47:46 ◼   ► - Okay, I get you now.

00:47:47 ◼   ► Yep, yep. - You know?

00:47:48 ◼   ► Okay?

00:47:49 ◼   ► And it's frequently updated.

00:47:51 ◼   ► I mean, to be fair, Delta has been,

00:47:53 ◼   ► Delta has stayed the same for the past few years.

00:47:56 ◼   ► It's, and I think Riley considers

00:47:59 ◼   ► maybe Delta feature complete.

00:48:00 ◼   ► And this is like something based on Delta

00:48:04 ◼   ► that continues to add options for gamers.

00:48:08 ◼   ► - Even if Riley considered that the case,

00:48:11 ◼   ► surely that's changing now.

00:48:12 ◼   ► Like if you have been like still top three

00:48:17 ◼   ► most downloaded app in the UK here,

00:48:19 ◼   ► and I assume it's the same in the US,

00:48:21 ◼   ► like you must've gotten enough feedback by now

00:48:23 ◼   ► that there are some features that you thought you might add.

00:48:26 ◼   ► Right?

00:48:26 ◼   ► Like even though you maybe thought you wouldn't otherwise.

00:48:29 ◼   ► - I hope so.

00:48:31 ◼   ► I hope that's the case because,

00:48:32 ◼   ► but yeah, it's cool to see this version of Delta

00:48:35 ◼   ► with more power user features and frequent updates.

00:48:38 ◼   ► And yeah, I mean, it doesn't really matter.

00:48:41 ◼   ► You can just, you can take your games and your saves

00:48:44 ◼   ► and you can just move between emulators.

00:48:46 ◼   ► That's the beauty of emulation.

00:48:48 ◼   ► You can do that.

00:48:50 ◼   ► I wanted to mention a couple of other things, Mike.

00:48:52 ◼   ► So I am in the process of, I think my,

00:48:55 ◼   ► so I'm working on this project to,

00:48:58 ◼   ► I've been digitizing my GameCube

00:49:01 ◼   ► and Nintendo Wii collection,

00:49:02 ◼   ► actually scanning my own discs and ripping my own CDs

00:49:06 ◼   ► and mini discs from the GameCube.

00:49:09 ◼   ► So I'll have more on that soon

00:49:11 ◼   ► because I do wanna play some GameCube games.

00:49:15 ◼   ► But in terms of Delta and iOS emulation,

00:49:19 ◼   ► I actually would like to start

00:49:21 ◼   ► with Super Nintendo emulation first before GBA,

00:49:25 ◼   ► because I also wanna play Pokemon, right?

00:49:27 ◼   ► But first I think I wanna play some Super Nintendo games.

00:49:29 ◼   ► And specifically I've been itching

00:49:31 ◼   ► for the past couple of years to replay Chrono Trigger.

00:49:36 ◼   ► And so I am waiting for,

00:49:39 ◼   ► it's called the Open Source Cartridge Reader.

00:49:43 ◼   ► This is a, it looks like a crazy device.

00:49:46 ◼   ► It's like a PCB board with a bunch of card readers on top.

00:49:51 ◼   ► I got it from this company, Save the Hero Builders.

00:49:56 ◼   ► It's made in Japan.

00:49:57 ◼   ► And it's a board that allows you to plug in NES,

00:50:02 ◼   ► Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64,

00:50:04 ◼   ► Game Boy and Genesis cartridges onto this board

00:50:10 ◼   ► and digitize the contents of the cartridge

00:50:14 ◼   ► onto your computer.

00:50:15 ◼   ► So I will be scanning my own Super Nintendo games

00:50:19 ◼   ► that I still have at my mom's place.

00:50:21 ◼   ► But of course, as you can imagine,

00:50:24 ◼   ► I am struggling in terms of finding a copy

00:50:29 ◼   ► of Chrono Trigger that doesn't cost a kidney.

00:50:31 ◼   ► So that will be interesting

00:50:34 ◼   ► because I am really making a point.

00:50:36 ◼   ► And I do feel much more comfortable

00:50:38 ◼   ► knowing that in an emulator I am playing my own stuff.

00:50:41 ◼   ► Like, I don't know, there's something that makes me

00:50:42 ◼   ► feel nice, makes me feel good about it.

00:50:45 ◼   ► So I need to find a copy.

00:50:46 ◼   ► Unfortunately, I never owned Chrono Trigger

00:50:49 ◼   ► when I was a kid.

00:50:51 ◼   ► And when I did play Chrono Trigger as a kid

00:50:53 ◼   ► in an emulator 20 years ago, I didn't have any ethics.

00:50:56 ◼   ► And now I do.

00:50:58 ◼   ► I guess, you know, I was younger without any morals.

00:51:00 ◼   ► I was like, yeah, piracy, whatever, no.

00:51:02 ◼   ► Like now I need to find a copy of Chrono Trigger.

00:51:05 ◼   ► So I will keep you posted.

00:51:06 ◼   ► And I will be playing that in Delta when the time comes.

00:51:10 ◼   ► - You know, emulation and all this kind of stuff,

00:51:14 ◼   ► it's interesting and weird and odd.

00:51:17 ◼   ► But for me, I do feel like it's, if you own the game,

00:51:22 ◼   ► it's fine, it's your game.

00:51:24 ◼   ► I don't subscribe to the idea of like,

00:51:27 ◼   ► I'm buying a license to play the game.

00:51:29 ◼   ► Like, I know that that's what they put

00:51:30 ◼   ► in the legal documents.

00:51:32 ◼   ► I just don't find that acceptable.

00:51:34 ◼   ► - If you physically own the object, it's yours.

00:51:36 ◼   ► - And arguably, I would say,

00:51:37 ◼   ► if you downloaded a game as a file,

00:51:42 ◼   ► like all the, if you remember a few years ago,

00:51:44 ◼   ► when Hideo Kojima released PT, the demo on PlayStation,

00:51:49 ◼   ► and then with the whole Konami thing went down

00:51:54 ◼   ► and PT was removed from the PlayStation store.

00:51:56 ◼   ► But people hand onto the PT downloaded file.

00:51:59 ◼   ► And there have been, there's a whole community of people

00:52:01 ◼   ► who like re-released PT or like modded PT

00:52:06 ◼   ► or recreated the PT demo for public release

00:52:11 ◼   ► on the internet.

00:52:13 ◼   ► And I think, yeah, I absolutely agree.

00:52:15 ◼   ► Like if you purchase something

00:52:17 ◼   ► and you either have a physical object

00:52:18 ◼   ► or a file in your possession, it's yours.

00:52:21 ◼   ► Nobody can take that away from you.

00:52:22 ◼   ► Don't believe the licenses.

00:52:23 ◼   ► - We are not legal professionals.

00:52:27 ◼   ► - No, but this is how we feel.

00:52:29 ◼   ► It's good life advice, yes.

00:52:31 ◼   ► - I am, you know, this is no shade.

00:52:34 ◼   ► Like, you know, there are a lot of,

00:52:35 ◼   ► I have some of my favorite games of all time

00:52:38 ◼   ► are iPhone games, like threes is up there, right?

00:52:41 ◼   ► Like it's even one of my greatest games of all time,

00:52:44 ◼   ► but you ain't touching Pokemon, man.

00:52:46 ◼   ► Like some of these Nintendo handheld games,

00:52:49 ◼   ► like they are next level kind of experience.

00:52:52 ◼   ► And being able to play those on my iPhone,

00:52:56 ◼   ► being able to, on my commute home,

00:52:59 ◼   ► play Pokemon is incredible.

00:53:02 ◼   ► It's incredible.

00:53:04 ◼   ► And I really wondered what the experience would be like

00:53:06 ◼   ► with the touchscreen controls.

00:53:08 ◼   ► And it's fine, like it's totally fine, you know?

00:53:12 ◼   ► - The one that bothers me with Pokemon games,

00:53:15 ◼   ► because I know myself,

00:53:17 ◼   ► is that because you're playing in an emulator,

00:53:20 ◼   ► when you're done playing the game,

00:53:22 ◼   ► you will not be able to transfer those games,

00:53:24 ◼   ► those Pokemon to Pokemon Home.

00:53:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, I never got into Home.

00:53:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:53:31 ◼   ► They will always, I mean, I,

00:53:34 ◼   ► hmm, I do want, as I say this, I'm just correcting myself.

00:53:39 ◼   ► I do wonder if--

00:53:41 ◼   ► - Is there a way, maybe.

00:53:42 ◼   ► - Well, maybe, I mean, technically,

00:53:44 ◼   ► you could take the save file and use a GB operator

00:53:47 ◼   ► to inject the save into the cartridge.

00:53:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm having an issue right now

00:53:53 ◼   ► where I'm building power with a Kadabra.

00:53:58 ◼   ► Like I can't do anything.

00:54:01 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:54:02 ◼   ► - Like there's no way for me to evolve this Pokemon,

00:54:04 ◼   ► 'cause I can't trade it with anyone.

00:54:06 ◼   ► - Ah, see, yeah, yeah.

00:54:09 ◼   ► These emulators, for sure, Ignite does.

00:54:14 ◼   ► They do support local multiplayer.

00:54:16 ◼   ► So technically you get another iPhone

00:54:21 ◼   ► and have Adina play SoulSilver.

00:54:24 ◼   ► - Do you think that would be possible?

00:54:27 ◼   ► - I, hold on, I think so.

00:54:32 ◼   ► For sure, Ignite, it does support local multiplayer,

00:54:37 ◼   ► because I think I saw it in the documentation.

00:54:40 ◼   ► - I mean, I haven't tried it, but my thought is just like--

00:54:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, it does have local multiplayer.

00:54:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, but I just can't imagine that the Pokemon game

00:54:47 ◼   ► knows what's going on.

00:54:49 ◼   ► That's kind of how I feel.

00:54:50 ◼   ► - I think it does.

00:54:53 ◼   ► I think if the system is--

00:54:56 ◼   ► - Just giving it what it thinks it needs.

00:54:57 ◼   ► - I look into this for you, but I think--

00:54:59 ◼   ► - Hold on to that.

00:55:00 ◼   ► I have seen people on Reddit mention that they were able

00:55:03 ◼   ► to get it to work using Ignite and local multiplayer.

00:55:06 ◼   ► - That would be crazy.

00:55:07 ◼   ► If you know that, I would love to know that.

00:55:09 ◼   ► I mean, I'll check out Ignite.

00:55:12 ◼   ► I signed up for the--

00:55:13 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:55:15 ◼   ► - I've signed up for the Delta Patreon,

00:55:16 ◼   ► just like, I wanna give these guys awesome money,

00:55:19 ◼   ► like, 'cause I'm just having such a great time

00:55:22 ◼   ► with this emulator.

00:55:23 ◼   ► It's fantastic, I'm loving it.

00:55:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, and another one that people should keep an eye on

00:55:27 ◼   ► that's coming out, I hope soon, it's PSPPP.

00:55:30 ◼   ► The PSP emulator.

00:55:33 ◼   ► I use that on Android.

00:55:34 ◼   ► It's a really, really, really good

00:55:37 ◼   ► PlayStation Portable emulator.

00:55:40 ◼   ► There's a whole catalog of PSP games from, again,

00:55:44 ◼   ► 20 years ago at this point, I guess.

00:55:46 ◼   ► You know, your GTA Liberty City Stories,

00:55:51 ◼   ► or your Final Fantasy Tactics, The War of the Lions.

00:55:56 ◼   ► - Let's go, baby.

00:55:57 ◼   ► - There's a whole catalog of PSP games

00:55:59 ◼   ► that may be supported without JIT.

00:56:02 ◼   ► That's the thing, I don't think PSPPP--

00:56:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, it doesn't, I just checked.

00:56:05 ◼   ► I just checked, it doesn't.

00:56:06 ◼   ► 'Cause this is the thing, JIT,

00:56:07 ◼   ► or Just-In-Time Compilation is effectively,

00:56:11 ◼   ► we'll just say it's code emulation,

00:56:12 ◼   ► like emulating a chip, like,

00:56:15 ◼   ► stuff that the GameCube and the Wii

00:56:17 ◼   ► use PowerPC processors so it can't run natively,

00:56:20 ◼   ► so they use what's called Just-In-Time Compilation.

00:56:23 ◼   ► But Apple won't allow for JIT with emulators,

00:56:26 ◼   ► so it seems like we won't get any GameCube emulators,

00:56:30 ◼   ► which I'm so bummed about.

00:56:32 ◼   ► Like, I really wanna play GameCube games on my iPad,

00:56:36 ◼   ► but it doesn't look like that's gonna be a possibility,

00:56:40 ◼   ► which is a real shame.

00:56:42 ◼   ► - No.

00:56:43 ◼   ► - I will say, though, like, I'm looking at pictures,

00:56:45 ◼   ► some screenshots here of some PSP games.

00:56:47 ◼   ► Like, PSP games don't age

00:56:50 ◼   ► in the way that Game Boy games age.

00:56:52 ◼   ► - No, no, no, the 3D ones don't.

00:56:54 ◼   ► - So, but there's some really cool-looking, like, 2D.

00:56:58 ◼   ► And one of my all-time favorite, like, niche games

00:57:01 ◼   ► from the PSP era was "Jean D'Arc."

00:57:05 ◼   ► It tells the story of Jean D'Arc,

00:57:08 ◼   ► you know, from the Middle Ages,

00:57:11 ◼   ► done as, like, a "Final Fantasy Tactics"-style game

00:57:14 ◼   ► with some magic elements.

00:57:15 ◼   ► It's a super well-done game

00:57:16 ◼   ► that never got a follow-up, unfortunately.

00:57:19 ◼   ► And that is also one that I,

00:57:21 ◼   ► I do own a modded PSP that I bought

00:57:25 ◼   ► during the lockdown in the pandemic,

00:57:27 ◼   ► and that allows me to rip my own UMDs.

00:57:31 ◼   ► If you recall the weird format

00:57:33 ◼   ► that PSP games were released on, the UMD.

00:57:37 ◼   ► - I saw someone on threads the other day say, like,

00:57:40 ◼   ► that one of the weirdest things they ever did

00:57:42 ◼   ► was to buy and watch the two pilot episodes

00:57:46 ◼   ► of "Lost" on PSP UMD.

00:57:48 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:57:51 ◼   ► - That's incredible.

00:57:52 ◼   ► - UMD was a weird vibe, man.

00:57:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was.

00:57:56 ◼   ► I had, I watched the Eminem movie "8 Mile" on UMD.

00:58:01 ◼   ► - Oh, incredible.

00:58:03 ◼   ► - I still have it somewhere at my mom's house, I think.

00:58:06 ◼   ► - Palms are sweaty.

00:58:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:58:09 ◼   ► Mom's spaghetti.

00:58:10 ◼   ► (laughing)

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01:00:11 ◼   ► at F-I-T-B-O-D.me/connected,

01:00:14 ◼   ► that is fitbud.me/connected for 25% off.

01:00:18 ◼   ► A thanks to Fitbud for their support of this show

01:00:20 ◼   ► and Relay FM.

01:00:21 ◼   ► - I do have some multiplayer follow-up for you, Mike.

01:00:25 ◼   ► - Oh, great.

01:00:25 ◼   ► - Unfortunately, by local multiplayer,

01:00:27 ◼   ► they meant that you can connect multiple controllers

01:00:30 ◼   ► to the same device and play on the same device.

01:00:33 ◼   ► So yeah, you cannot do...

01:00:36 ◼   ► Apparently, there was like one emulator

01:00:39 ◼   ► that was spoofing the Nintendo servers

01:00:42 ◼   ► with a custom DNS to allow for running their own servers

01:00:47 ◼   ► for Nintendo DS online multiplayer,

01:00:50 ◼   ► but that's a different thing.

01:00:51 ◼   ► And yeah, there's a lot of people asking

01:00:54 ◼   ► in the Ignited Discord about local multiplayer

01:00:58 ◼   ► for Pokemon games, but there's no solution yet at the moment.

01:01:01 ◼   ► - So I may just have to cadaver Goa at some point.

01:01:05 ◼   ► It's fun. - That's a, yeah, yeah.

01:01:06 ◼   ► - So I'm not that attached to it,

01:01:07 ◼   ► it's just a bit of a workhorse for me right now.

01:01:10 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:01:12 ◼   ► - So I'm actually kind of surprised

01:01:14 ◼   ► that we've gotten this far into the episode

01:01:16 ◼   ► without referencing this an iPad event coming.

01:01:20 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah.

01:01:22 ◼   ► Yeah, that's also happening. - It's coming in two weeks.

01:01:25 ◼   ► So the 7th of May.

01:01:28 ◼   ► So yeah, we'll be doing Ricky's next week for episode 500,

01:01:31 ◼   ► which is very exciting.

01:01:32 ◼   ► Everyone's very excited Ricky's in episode 500.

01:01:35 ◼   ► It's gonna be a video only event on May the 7th

01:01:39 ◼   ► at 7 a.m. Pacific.

01:01:41 ◼   ► They very kindly invited the media to watch the video,

01:01:44 ◼   ► which is also what they did in October, which is funny too.

01:01:47 ◼   ► Couple of details about this

01:01:50 ◼   ► and we can talk about it a bit more.

01:01:52 ◼   ► There are multiple logos for like Apple logos

01:01:55 ◼   ► in a bunch of different styles that are being shared

01:01:58 ◼   ► that are very artistic.

01:01:59 ◼   ► It reminds me of, I think it was the 2018

01:02:02 ◼   ► iPad Pro announcement.

01:02:04 ◼   ► They did a similar thing, right, where it was in New York

01:02:07 ◼   ► and they had a bunch of different artistic interpretations

01:02:10 ◼   ► of the Apple logo.

01:02:12 ◼   ► I think you got some stickers.

01:02:13 ◼   ► You were at that one, right? - Yeah, yeah.

01:02:15 ◼   ► I was at the one and I did get the stickers, yes.

01:02:17 ◼   ► - And then also reading from 9 to 5 Mac,

01:02:20 ◼   ► Tim Cook shared the artwork for the event

01:02:23 ◼   ► with the caption quote, "Pencil us in for May 7th."

01:02:26 ◼   ► The executive also added a pencil emoji to the post

01:02:29 ◼   ► and there's a lot of pencil involved in the artwork itself.

01:02:34 ◼   ► So, I mean, we knew it was iPads.

01:02:37 ◼   ► They're leaning maybe heavier than I expected

01:02:39 ◼   ► on the Apple pencil.

01:02:40 ◼   ► I don't know what to read into that.

01:02:42 ◼   ► If much, like I figured there'd be a new one,

01:02:44 ◼   ► but like, is it gonna be the star?

01:02:46 ◼   ► Probably not, right?

01:02:48 ◼   ► But they're doing it anyway.

01:02:50 ◼   ► So, yeah, it's coming.

01:02:53 ◼   ► Well, I'm excited about it.

01:02:54 ◼   ► I've been really anticipating this.

01:02:57 ◼   ► I've definitely gotten to the point where I'm imagining

01:03:00 ◼   ► what a bigger iPad could fit in my life.

01:03:02 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:03:02 ◼   ► Like I'm doing that thing where I'm like,

01:03:04 ◼   ► oh, if only I had a bigger iPad at this moment

01:03:06 ◼   ► because I'm thinking I'm gonna get one,

01:03:09 ◼   ► provided that there is a smaller OLED,

01:03:11 ◼   ► which I'm assuming there will be,

01:03:12 ◼   ► but I feel like they've, for me once,

01:03:15 ◼   ► you know, kind of thing with Apple assuming

01:03:16 ◼   ► they're gonna update the smaller one

01:03:18 ◼   ► with the screen technology I want.

01:03:20 ◼   ► Yeah, I think I'm pretty set at the moment

01:03:22 ◼   ► with getting the 11-inch OLED.

01:03:23 ◼   ► I've been really liking my time with the 11-inch iPad Pro

01:03:26 ◼   ► and I don't imagine going back to a big one at this point.

01:03:30 ◼   ► Imagine you're gonna get your OLED upgrade for your Mac.

01:03:32 ◼   ► I'm gonna get an OLED Mac years before.

01:03:35 ◼   ► Years before, if ever before.

01:03:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:39 ◼   ► How are you feeling about the event though?

01:03:40 ◼   ► Like are you expecting an interesting one or like,

01:03:45 ◼   ► you know, the last event we had was the October event

01:03:48 ◼   ► for Macs and people were like, oh man, snooze fest

01:03:51 ◼   ► because we kind of knew everything and,

01:03:54 ◼   ► you know, the products themselves were revisions.

01:03:58 ◼   ► Are you expecting this to be an exciting event in any way?

01:04:01 ◼   ► I think it's gonna be more exciting than the Mac one,

01:04:04 ◼   ► but obviously not as exciting as an iPhone event.

01:04:09 ◼   ► I mean, obviously, or like when they used

01:04:11 ◼   ► to do the spring events, you know,

01:04:13 ◼   ► like I think it's gonna be better,

01:04:15 ◼   ► like that Mac event, I mean, let's face it,

01:04:16 ◼   ► it was kind of boring, you know,

01:04:18 ◼   ► like it was a bit of a nothing.

01:04:21 ◼   ► Yeah, it was, I mean, it was just like

01:04:25 ◼   ► a bunch of revisions, right?

01:04:27 ◼   ► It was fine.

01:04:28 ◼   ► Yeah, it was like, okay.

01:04:30 ◼   ► But at least this one, it's new,

01:04:33 ◼   ► at least one new product, right?

01:04:35 ◼   ► With the bigger iPad Air and also we're expecting it,

01:04:40 ◼   ► like some significant improvements

01:04:42 ◼   ► to the iPad line across the board.

01:04:43 ◼   ► Yeah, and whenever redesigns of any sort are involved,

01:04:48 ◼   ► it makes it interesting.

01:04:50 ◼   ► And here you're looking at an iPad with a new display,

01:04:54 ◼   ► possibly a new chassis, sorry,

01:04:56 ◼   ► a redesign of the iPad itself.

01:04:57 ◼   ► A redesign of the Pencil.

01:04:58 ◼   ► I don't know about that, you know,

01:04:59 ◼   ► do you really think, like, I can't imagine

01:05:01 ◼   ► how different they're gonna make it look.

01:05:03 ◼   ► The slightly thinner bezels and camera on the landscape side.

01:05:07 ◼   ► That's enough, and thinner, right?

01:05:09 ◼   ► So it's gonna be thinner.

01:05:10 ◼   ► I forgot about the thinner.

01:05:12 ◼   ► Yeah, so that's exciting.

01:05:13 ◼   ► Then you're gonna have the redesigned Pencil,

01:05:16 ◼   ► possibly like new features, maybe a button,

01:05:19 ◼   ► maybe a gesture, who knows?

01:05:21 ◼   ► But also the redesigned Magic Keyboard.

01:05:22 ◼   ► So like, those changes, because are new

01:05:27 ◼   ► and so far they haven't leaked.

01:05:31 ◼   ► Like, you haven't seen a mock-up of the,

01:05:33 ◼   ► you haven't seen a leak of the Magic Keyboard.

01:05:35 ◼   ► Like, that's interesting.

01:05:36 ◼   ► And so that I think will be for sure a nicer event

01:05:40 ◼   ► than the Halloween-themed Mac one,

01:05:44 ◼   ► which in hindsight, they probably did the Halloween-themed

01:05:47 ◼   ► thing because there was, like, the rest was pretty boring.

01:05:50 ◼   ► And at the very least--

01:05:51 ◼   ► - They like jazzed it up visually.

01:05:52 ◼   ► - They jazzed it up, they had a hook for you.

01:05:54 ◼   ► So they're like, "Oh, nice, Apple is doing Halloween."

01:05:57 ◼   ► But yeah, I think this one will not have

01:05:59 ◼   ► any funky theme going on.

01:06:01 ◼   ► It'll just be new products,

01:06:02 ◼   ► and that's gonna be interesting.

01:06:04 ◼   ► - I'm surprised they are doing a video, though.

01:06:06 ◼   ► Like, I think we had all just resigned to the fact

01:06:09 ◼   ► that this was gonna be a bunch of press releases, right?

01:06:11 ◼   ► And no, they-- - Video seems to,

01:06:12 ◼   ► yeah, these videos, they seem to be the new, like,

01:06:15 ◼   ► in between.

01:06:16 ◼   ► They're like, these videos, if you wanna follow along

01:06:20 ◼   ► to this Pokemon analogy, because we were just talking

01:06:23 ◼   ► about Delta and Pokemon.

01:06:24 ◼   ► So the press release is Bulbasaur.

01:06:29 ◼   ► The video is Ivysaur, and the keynote is Venusaur, right?

01:06:34 ◼   ► So that's, and so the videos are like that in between

01:06:40 ◼   ► for, like, it's better than a press release,

01:06:41 ◼   ► but it's not a keynote.

01:06:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, it's, I like it, I like it.

01:06:46 ◼   ► I like spicing things up with these announcements, for sure.

01:06:50 ◼   ► - I appreciate that you picked the best Gen 1 starter,

01:06:52 ◼   ► by the way. - Oh, of course, of course.

01:06:54 ◼   ► - We are Bulbasaur bros for life.

01:06:56 ◼   ► Bulbasaur is the absolute best Gen 1 starter,

01:07:00 ◼   ► and there is like, there's no--

01:07:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, people who were like, people who were like,

01:07:04 ◼   ► 30 years ago, were like, oh, I wanna have Charizard,

01:07:06 ◼   ► like, those are like, those are, you know,

01:07:09 ◼   ► you don't wanna be friends with those kids.

01:07:12 ◼   ► - Good luck with the first two gems, you know what I mean?

01:07:14 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Like, good luck.

01:07:15 ◼   ► - And also, and also like, so there's like,

01:07:18 ◼   ► I'm just imagining the chart of people, like,

01:07:22 ◼   ► Bulbasaur was the right choice.

01:07:25 ◼   ► Having Charizard at the end was like, the boring, like,

01:07:29 ◼   ► oh, I wanna be overpowered kind of choice,

01:07:32 ◼   ► but good luck with the first gems.

01:07:33 ◼   ► Like, but I do also appreciate the chaos of people

01:07:38 ◼   ► who wanted to have Squirtle and Blastoise.

01:07:40 ◼   ► - Yes. - So those people,

01:07:42 ◼   ► I appreciate.

01:07:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, they're, I feel like Squirtle is a refined choice

01:07:48 ◼   ► because, because, you know, like, Bulbasaur

01:07:51 ◼   ► is the right choice for like, playing the game.

01:07:53 ◼   ► Like, that is the correct choice for playing the game.

01:07:56 ◼   ► Charizard is the flashy one.

01:07:58 ◼   ► If you decided like, no, I want Squirtle, like,

01:08:01 ◼   ► I wanna, I wanna have a tough time to start the game out.

01:08:05 ◼   ► And like, and then I want the okay final evolution.

01:08:10 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:08:14 ◼   ► - I respect the Squirtle choice.

01:08:15 ◼   ► - And let's not forget that you got Warthoril in the middle.

01:08:18 ◼   ► So there's like, you know. - We're rough, we're rough.

01:08:21 ◼   ► - You know, the middle evolutions, feel bad for them.

01:08:24 ◼   ► You know, like, I feel bad for the middle evolutions.

01:08:26 ◼   ► They don't get the love, you know?

01:08:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:08:29 ◼   ► But yeah, iPads, okay, yeah.

01:08:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty excited about it.

01:08:35 ◼   ► I'm intrigued to see what they're gonna do.

01:08:36 ◼   ► It's weird to have a middle of May product release

01:08:41 ◼   ► 'cause you're so close to WWDC now, you know?

01:08:46 ◼   ► Although that is, you know,

01:08:47 ◼   ► I'm expecting WWDC to be pretty busy this year.

01:08:50 ◼   ► Like they should have a lot of stuff to talk about.

01:08:52 ◼   ► And also these iPads don't make much of a thing.

01:08:54 ◼   ► But this really, we feel like should have been in March.

01:08:57 ◼   ► Right?

01:08:58 ◼   ► Like this should have happened months ago.

01:09:00 ◼   ► - Yes, yes.

01:09:01 ◼   ► - But yeah, the mid-May product announcement

01:09:04 ◼   ► and product release is gonna be, I mean, look,

01:09:07 ◼   ► in what is usually a quiet time, thankful for that, right?

01:09:10 ◼   ► - Yes, exactly.

01:09:12 ◼   ► Yes, I agree.

01:09:13 ◼   ► - I wanna finish out today by marking an important time,

01:09:17 ◼   ► which is 15 years of Max Stories.

01:09:20 ◼   ► You celebrated a couple of days ago, April 20th.

01:09:24 ◼   ► Blaze it.

01:09:25 ◼   ► Blaze it.

01:09:27 ◼   ► I forget that it's Blaze it Day.

01:09:28 ◼   ► Congratulations, 15 years is pretty, pretty massive.

01:09:34 ◼   ► - Thank you, thank you.

01:09:35 ◼   ► - And I just kind of wanted to get a sense for you

01:09:37 ◼   ► for like celebrating.

01:09:40 ◼   ► Like it doesn't really feel like you did anything.

01:09:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, no.

01:09:45 ◼   ► So we did it when we celebrated 10 years.

01:09:47 ◼   ► We had a whole like 10 years of Max Stories,

01:09:50 ◼   ► retrospectives from previous writers, and it was fun.

01:09:54 ◼   ► We did it five years ago.

01:09:55 ◼   ► And of course, the whole pandemic thing happened

01:09:58 ◼   ► and it's kind of weird to think about

01:10:00 ◼   ► that it was five years ago.

01:10:02 ◼   ► But the thing about me is I don't like to talk about

01:10:04 ◼   ► like myself or like our accomplishments too much

01:10:09 ◼   ► because like, yeah, okay, I get it.

01:10:11 ◼   ► We're celebrating ourselves.

01:10:13 ◼   ► But we did it five years ago.

01:10:15 ◼   ► And over the past few months, I have really,

01:10:20 ◼   ► or the past year actually, because of all the things,

01:10:24 ◼   ► we've been working on this side project for a long time.

01:10:27 ◼   ► And we've been working on a redesign for Max Stories

01:10:31 ◼   ► for an even longer time.

01:10:32 ◼   ► And that project took a,

01:10:33 ◼   ► now even though nothing about it is public,

01:10:35 ◼   ► behind the scenes, it took a few turns over the years.

01:10:38 ◼   ► And so I was like, you know, 15 years,

01:10:41 ◼   ► over the past couple of years,

01:10:42 ◼   ► we've been working behind the scenes on new stuff

01:10:44 ◼   ► that it's still not ready.

01:10:46 ◼   ► I don't like the idea of doing once again,

01:10:49 ◼   ► a whole celebratory thing.

01:10:52 ◼   ► It's like, you know, cool, let's post it

01:10:55 ◼   ► and let's get back to work.

01:10:58 ◼   ► I'm sure we'll celebrate again at 20 years.

01:11:01 ◼   ► But I, and I also feel like I posted it on Mastodon

01:11:07 ◼   ► and I got so many nice messages from people.

01:11:09 ◼   ► It's so heartwarming to see, you know,

01:11:12 ◼   ► to hear nice stuff from people

01:11:17 ◼   ► in terms of like when they started reading Max Stories

01:11:19 ◼   ► and maybe they, you know,

01:11:22 ◼   ► they became developers because of Max Stories like that.

01:11:25 ◼   ► It's so wholesome to see,

01:11:28 ◼   ► but I don't like to dwell on it for too long.

01:11:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, I understand that.

01:11:33 ◼   ► Like in the first five years of Relay,

01:11:35 ◼   ► we made like a big deal out of every, for every year.

01:11:38 ◼   ► And then when we hit five, it was like, okay.

01:11:41 ◼   ► And now we're hitting 10.

01:11:42 ◼   ► I'm obviously making a big deal out

01:11:44 ◼   ► of the 10 year anniversary, which is this year.

01:11:47 ◼   ► And then I don't know if we'd make a big deal out of 15,

01:11:51 ◼   ► maybe like, but I see where you're coming from

01:11:54 ◼   ► of like you kind of, you could, at first you celebrate

01:11:58 ◼   ► 'cause you're making it work and then you hit a milestone

01:12:00 ◼   ► and then you hit a next milestone.

01:12:01 ◼   ► And then the real, the next big milestone worthy

01:12:04 ◼   ► of that kind of like pump goes further

01:12:07 ◼   ► into the distance, right?

01:12:08 ◼   ► I kind of understand that.

01:12:10 ◼   ► Like I always find it funny when like,

01:12:11 ◼   ► and I think it's just because social media managers

01:12:13 ◼   ► need something to talk about,

01:12:14 ◼   ► like companies celebrating every single year

01:12:16 ◼   ► of them being around.

01:12:17 ◼   ► Like, they're just like, all right,

01:12:20 ◼   ► you've been, if we're at 77 years,

01:12:22 ◼   ► like it's not so much more exciting than it was for 76,

01:12:26 ◼   ► but you know, you do you, I suppose.

01:12:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:12:29 ◼   ► But obviously I am so thankful

01:12:33 ◼   ► that there's still people who read Mac stories

01:12:35 ◼   ► and pay attention to what we do

01:12:37 ◼   ► and that support us directly or not.

01:12:41 ◼   ► Like I just appreciate having an audience for our,

01:12:45 ◼   ► I hope useful and I recognize often weird projects

01:12:49 ◼   ► that I especially do because, you know,

01:12:53 ◼   ► weirdness is the spice of life with these things for me.

01:12:57 ◼   ► And so, yeah, thank you.

01:12:58 ◼   ► And, but like I said, back to work.

01:13:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, I feel like, you know,

01:13:02 ◼   ► saying about the support, the things that we do,

01:13:04 ◼   ► like I've been doing reflecting, right?

01:13:08 ◼   ► As Relay, we're getting ready to celebrate, right?

01:13:11 ◼   ► Like it's the celebration start in July

01:13:14 ◼   ► with the live show, which by the way,

01:13:15 ◼   ► we do have some tickets available

01:13:17 ◼   ► for the very top section, they're unreserved seats.

01:13:20 ◼   ► But if you wanna come to our live show in London in July,

01:13:23 ◼   ► go to relay.fm/london.

01:13:24 ◼   ► There are a small number of tickets still available.

01:13:26 ◼   ► We'd love to see you there.

01:13:27 ◼   ► Federico's gonna be there.

01:13:29 ◼   ► We're gonna have a great time.

01:13:30 ◼   ► I'm very excited.

01:13:31 ◼   ► We're finishing the bunch of planning stuff.

01:13:33 ◼   ► So if you wanna come see us and to help celebrate

01:13:35 ◼   ► our 10th anniversary of us,

01:13:37 ◼   ► you can come see us in London in July.

01:13:39 ◼   ► I bumped into a listener in the street yesterday

01:13:40 ◼   ► who told me he was coming to the show.

01:13:42 ◼   ► - Nice.

01:13:43 ◼   ► - So that was pretty cool.

01:13:44 ◼   ► Something that I've come to realize,

01:13:47 ◼   ► and I was thinking about this for you with 15 years,

01:13:50 ◼   ► and I was thinking about for us, we're the end.

01:13:54 ◼   ► - We're the end of what?

01:13:56 ◼   ► - Of the thing that we do.

01:13:57 ◼   ► - Oh. - I can think about this,

01:14:00 ◼   ► especially for the types of podcasts that we make.

01:14:04 ◼   ► People don't really do this now.

01:14:07 ◼   ► They do other things.

01:14:09 ◼   ► - Or they don't do blogs anymore.

01:14:11 ◼   ► - People don't write blogs anymore.

01:14:14 ◼   ► People don't do conversational tech podcasts anymore

01:14:16 ◼   ► in the way that we do them, I feel like.

01:14:18 ◼   ► Or at least it's, what I say is these things appear less

01:14:23 ◼   ► than when we start.

01:14:23 ◼   ► When we were starting, everyone was,

01:14:25 ◼   ► every week there was a new blog or podcast

01:14:28 ◼   ► appearing on the scene.

01:14:29 ◼   ► And I feel like now people are focusing their time

01:14:32 ◼   ► on YouTube or they're focusing their time on TikTok

01:14:36 ◼   ► or Instagram.

01:14:37 ◼   ► Like if you wanna be a new creator today,

01:14:40 ◼   ► you're focusing on the social platforms,

01:14:42 ◼   ► the algorithm-led platforms.

01:14:44 ◼   ► Because of course, why would you not do that?

01:14:48 ◼   ► But it's kind of making me realize that we're kind of,

01:14:52 ◼   ► I think, at the end or the tail end

01:14:56 ◼   ► of the type of content that we make.

01:14:58 ◼   ► And it's just because we were there

01:15:00 ◼   ► at just that right moment before it shifted.

01:15:02 ◼   ► And that's just been like a strange thing to think about.

01:15:06 ◼   ► - Are we an extinct species?

01:15:09 ◼   ► - Not yet.

01:15:10 ◼   ► 'Cause this is the thing, I know that these things pop up.

01:15:12 ◼   ► I see people starting new stuff all the time.

01:15:14 ◼   ► But it is like, unless you were there,

01:15:16 ◼   ► like if you were there 10, 15 years ago,

01:15:19 ◼   ► the scene was very different.

01:15:21 ◼   ► - Oh man, those were the times.

01:15:24 ◼   ► I feel so old saying that.

01:15:25 ◼   ► But it was like those days, like 2008 to 2012-ish,

01:15:30 ◼   ► the days of Twitter, Twitter clients.

01:15:39 ◼   ► - When the social networks were so small

01:15:41 ◼   ► that you could actually meet people really easily.

01:15:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:15:45 ◼   ► And it's like even, and I look back on this,

01:15:49 ◼   ► like sometimes I check out like old Mac Stories articles.

01:15:54 ◼   ► The overall vibe was different.

01:15:57 ◼   ► Like talking to developers,

01:15:58 ◼   ► how developers approached the press,

01:16:02 ◼   ► how, I don't know, just the way we worked was different.

01:16:07 ◼   ► And so, yeah.

01:16:11 ◼   ► On one hand, I do miss those days.

01:16:14 ◼   ► - Well, you're always nostalgic.

01:16:15 ◼   ► I mean, I think there are so many ways

01:16:17 ◼   ► in which it is better now than it was then.

01:16:19 ◼   ► Like, you know, if really,

01:16:21 ◼   ► if you were offered to go back, you wouldn't.

01:16:23 ◼   ► But like that's just nostalgia for you, you know?

01:16:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, but I'm not gonna be like one of,

01:16:28 ◼   ► and I hope this is this kind of vibe

01:16:29 ◼   ► that maybe transpires from Mac Stories

01:16:32 ◼   ► and what I do on the shows in general.

01:16:34 ◼   ► I am nostalgic because it's, I believe it's generically,

01:16:38 ◼   ► you know, it's intrinsic to the human species

01:16:43 ◼   ► to be nostalgic.

01:16:44 ◼   ► But I prefer my job now.

01:16:47 ◼   ► Like I think- - 100%.

01:16:48 ◼   ► Oh my God.

01:16:51 ◼   ► 10 years ago, I was depressed as hell, right?

01:16:54 ◼   ► 'Cause I couldn't do what I wanted to do, you know?

01:16:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, like what I wanted to do 15 years ago

01:17:01 ◼   ► or 10 years ago, I am doing now.

01:17:04 ◼   ► And so I think, you know,

01:17:08 ◼   ► maybe it's something that we should say more often

01:17:10 ◼   ► that like this is what we wanted to do

01:17:13 ◼   ► when we get to do it now.

01:17:15 ◼   ► And so, yeah, I am nostalgic.

01:17:17 ◼   ► No, I don't think iOS 6 was better

01:17:20 ◼   ► than what we have today.

01:17:21 ◼   ► And yes, I prefer what I do now and how I do it now.

01:17:26 ◼   ► Not just because hopefully I'm a better writer

01:17:28 ◼   ► and hopefully that I have less of an Italian accent,

01:17:31 ◼   ► but just because like the overall structure

01:17:35 ◼   ► and the tech that we have,

01:17:37 ◼   ► the technology that we have is better now.

01:17:39 ◼   ► It's more powerful and easier to use

01:17:41 ◼   ► and more people have access to it and that's awesome.

01:17:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm definitely getting into my thankful feeling

01:17:49 ◼   ► more and more as the year goes on.

01:17:50 ◼   ► And like this idea that I have--

01:17:52 ◼   ► - Are you in your thankful era?

01:17:54 ◼   ► - I think this is my thankful era.

01:17:56 ◼   ► I think I'm in it.

01:17:57 ◼   ► And like really thinking about the fact

01:18:00 ◼   ► that I do feel this way,

01:18:02 ◼   ► that we were just at the right time

01:18:06 ◼   ► before the types of things that we wanted to do

01:18:09 ◼   ► became harder to break through or it was just different.

01:18:13 ◼   ► And I'm just very thankful that we got to where we did

01:18:18 ◼   ► at the time that we got there.

01:18:20 ◼   ► Because we did start at the same time.

01:18:21 ◼   ► Like I started podcasting 15 years ago, like 14 years ago.

01:18:25 ◼   ► But like I just was all over the place.

01:18:27 ◼   ► Like it was this funny thing.

01:18:28 ◼   ► Like I feel like there's creators that I follow

01:18:30 ◼   ► that I'm not friends with.

01:18:31 ◼   ► It's like seems like something was happening in 2010.

01:18:34 ◼   ► Like that a lot of people were starting to do

01:18:35 ◼   ► this kind of stuff like around that time.

01:18:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:18:38 ◼   ► - And I'm just so thankful that we were where we were

01:18:41 ◼   ► when we were and that our audience found us

01:18:44 ◼   ► and they stick with us.

01:18:45 ◼   ► 'Cause I really do believe that the majority of the audiences

01:18:48 ◼   ► we have and we've been talking about it a bit

01:18:50 ◼   ► on the show recently.

01:18:52 ◼   ► Like there are people that have stuck around.

01:18:54 ◼   ► Like we have a stickiness I think to our shows

01:18:57 ◼   ► and to our blogs and people they enjoy our work

01:19:01 ◼   ► and they continue to support us.

01:19:02 ◼   ► And it's like, it's such a great feeling

01:19:05 ◼   ► where I don't need to care about an algorithm at all.

01:19:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's oh my God. - I don't care about

01:19:11 ◼   ► algorithms at all.

01:19:12 ◼   ► - Thank you for saying that.

01:19:14 ◼   ► Like sometimes I get in conversations with people

01:19:17 ◼   ► and when they talk about like what I do

01:19:19 ◼   ► and it's like, hey, what's your job like?

01:19:20 ◼   ► And so, and they start saying,

01:19:21 ◼   ► so how do you optimize for the algorithm?

01:19:23 ◼   ► And I just stare at them.

01:19:25 ◼   ► - You don't need to.

01:19:26 ◼   ► - I don't.

01:19:26 ◼   ► And they look at me like I'm some kind of lunatic

01:19:29 ◼   ► or something. (laughs)

01:19:31 ◼   ► And I'm like, no, really the model is different.

01:19:34 ◼   ► I don't need to chase that.

01:19:35 ◼   ► And yeah, thank you for mentioning that.

01:19:38 ◼   ► It's an important point because otherwise I just feel

01:19:40 ◼   ► like I would be depressed and constantly stressed

01:19:44 ◼   ► and anxious about, and it works for some people

01:19:48 ◼   ► and more power to you if it does.

01:19:49 ◼   ► - You can find massive success, right?

01:19:52 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:19:53 ◼   ► - 'Cause like, with the stuff that we do with Cortex,

01:19:56 ◼   ► I've seen more of these kinds of effects, right?

01:19:59 ◼   ► So like we put the show on YouTube

01:20:01 ◼   ► and sometimes the episodes explode.

01:20:03 ◼   ► But like for me, none of that's all additive.

01:20:06 ◼   ► Like I don't care about that.

01:20:07 ◼   ► I care about like what are the audio numbers, right?

01:20:10 ◼   ► 'Cause they're the people that have chosen

01:20:12 ◼   ► to listen to the podcast, right?

01:20:14 ◼   ► So like that's the thing I focus on most.

01:20:16 ◼   ► And we have like a baseline number that we hit on YouTube,

01:20:18 ◼   ► but it goes up and down and up and down.

01:20:20 ◼   ► And then also with our Instagram account recently,

01:20:22 ◼   ► we had like a video that went viral.

01:20:25 ◼   ► And it's like, it's interesting to me to see it,

01:20:27 ◼   ► but like I don't feel like the algorithm dictates what I do

01:20:32 ◼   ► because I have these other outlets to be able

01:20:35 ◼   ► to talk about things, you know?

01:20:37 ◼   ► And like to share stuff.

01:20:39 ◼   ► And like we have the podcast to be able to talk

01:20:43 ◼   ► about the things that we're doing.

01:20:44 ◼   ► And that's where it actually matched me.

01:20:46 ◼   ► And all this other stuff is just gravy.

01:20:48 ◼   ► But if I had to imagine that like my entire audience,

01:20:52 ◼   ► even the people that had chosen to subscribe,

01:20:55 ◼   ► it was dictated by an algorithm, I would hate that so much.

01:20:58 ◼   ► Like our podcast listeners,

01:21:00 ◼   ► they choose to subscribe to our podcasts

01:21:02 ◼   ► and then they listen to the podcast

01:21:03 ◼   ► because it's in their queue.

01:21:05 ◼   ► The thought that like,

01:21:07 ◼   ► and something for this was just so awesome for me

01:21:10 ◼   ► was there's been this big hubbub

01:21:12 ◼   ► in the wider podcast community

01:21:13 ◼   ► about Apple making a change to Apple podcasts

01:21:17 ◼   ► where it stopped downloading every episode

01:21:19 ◼   ► if you weren't listening.

01:21:21 ◼   ► And like the wider podcast community was like,

01:21:23 ◼   ► "Oh, they're stealing our listeners."

01:21:25 ◼   ► Like it didn't do anything to us

01:21:27 ◼   ► because the people that subscribe to our shows

01:21:29 ◼   ► actually listen to the shows 'cause they want them.

01:21:32 ◼   ► Like it wasn't a show that they just press subscribe to once

01:21:35 ◼   ► and never thought about it.

01:21:36 ◼   ► And it's like the same with the algorithms,

01:21:37 ◼   ► like on YouTube and stuff, right?

01:21:39 ◼   ► You press subscribe,

01:21:40 ◼   ► but then you don't necessarily see all the videos.

01:21:42 ◼   ► And like, I hate that thought.

01:21:43 ◼   ► Like as a creator, it's not interesting to me.

01:21:47 ◼   ► - As time has gone on,

01:21:50 ◼   ► I have really understood how the fortune that we have

01:21:55 ◼   ► is to have people who don't consider us,

01:22:01 ◼   ► who don't consider us like background noise,

01:22:05 ◼   ► but when you, even if you,

01:22:08 ◼   ► like we don't have millions of readers

01:22:10 ◼   ► or millions of listeners like, I don't know,

01:22:13 ◼   ► MKBHD does or The Verge does.

01:22:15 ◼   ► But even if you do get like a thousand or 5,000 people

01:22:20 ◼   ► who sometimes think about you,

01:22:24 ◼   ► like they're like, "Hey, I wonder what Mike is up to."

01:22:26 ◼   ► Or like, "Hey, I wonder what Federico has done on me."

01:22:28 ◼   ► Like when people think even just once a month

01:22:34 ◼   ► about what you create, now that's a fortune

01:22:37 ◼   ► and you gotta hold onto it

01:22:38 ◼   ► because it's a rare thing these days.

01:22:40 ◼   ► And you don't wanna be,

01:22:42 ◼   ► when you have that privilege and that luck

01:22:47 ◼   ► to be somebody who doesn't depend on a real coming up

01:22:51 ◼   ► in the algorithmic timeline on Instagram,

01:22:54 ◼   ► that's something you gotta protect because it's precious.

01:22:58 ◼   ► And yeah, that's sort of a-

01:23:01 ◼   ► - And it means that when we need help,

01:23:03 ◼   ► people show up, right?

01:23:05 ◼   ► Like, if you truly value this, which we all do,

01:23:08 ◼   ► it means that like when COVID happens

01:23:13 ◼   ► and all the advertisers go away,

01:23:15 ◼   ► we can say, "Please give us money."