Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:07 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to episode 503 of the Connected Podcast from Relay FM.

00:00:13 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by NetSuite, Ecamm, 1Password and Fitbud.

00:00:18 ◼   ► My name is Mike Hurley and I have the pleasure of welcoming to the show Federico Vittucci.

00:00:23 ◼   ► Hello Mike, how are you?

00:00:25 ◼   ► Hello Federico.

00:00:26 ◼   ► It's good to be back here, it's good to talk to you.

00:00:30 ◼   ► And I'm happy to be back.

00:00:32 ◼   ► It's good to talk to Steven. Hello Steven.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Hello boys, it is good.

00:00:37 ◼   ► We're all together again.

00:00:38 ◼   ► Yes.

00:00:39 ◼   ► Which is nice.

00:00:40 ◼   ► Mike, I hope you had a good time off.

00:00:42 ◼   ► I did.

00:00:43 ◼   ► And now we're back.

00:00:46 ◼   ► We're back.

00:00:47 ◼   ► And that means we start with follow up.

00:00:50 ◼   ► Follow up.

00:00:51 ◼   ► You got to do, someone's got to do the sound, you know.

00:00:52 ◼   ► Follow up.

00:00:53 ◼   ► Follow up.

00:00:54 ◼   ► Follow up.

00:00:55 ◼   ► iOS 17.5.1 is out.

00:00:58 ◼   ► This fixes an issue that it kind of fell between our episodes a little bit, where deleted pictures

00:01:05 ◼   ► were reappearing for some users.

00:01:07 ◼   ► A lot of people wrote the headlines of the iPhone is undeleting your nudes because obviously

00:01:12 ◼   ► that's what people are going to recognize immediately in their photo rolls that have

00:01:18 ◼   ► been deleted.

00:01:19 ◼   ► Right?

00:01:19 ◼   ► If you took 17 pictures of your kids' soccer game and two show back up, you're not going

00:01:23 ◼   ► to notice that, but nudity pictures, you probably will.

00:01:27 ◼   ► Horrific bug.

00:01:29 ◼   ► I really hope that everyone had to work late and over the weekend to fix this unexcusable,

00:01:35 ◼   ► but it seems to be fixed in 17.5.1.

00:01:37 ◼   ► So good job.

00:01:40 ◼   ► But I would like to call attention to this and one other thing.

00:01:43 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:44 ◼   ► So this bug happened.

00:01:46 ◼   ► We also had that thing a few weeks ago, which I spoke about on upgrade where a bunch of

00:01:50 ◼   ► Apple IDs got locked and had to reset the passwords, right?

00:01:55 ◼   ► Both of these things have come and gone.

00:02:00 ◼   ► Apple's not saying anything about it because this photos thing, how did this happen?

00:02:06 ◼   ► I believe they need to answer this.

00:02:09 ◼   ► Yes, they do.

00:02:10 ◼   ► Because if I have deleted a photo, that photo should be gone, right?

00:02:15 ◼   ► Why does it still exist?

00:02:16 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:02:17 ◼   ► Where does it exist?

00:02:18 ◼   ► The photos that I have chosen to delete, that Apple tells me will be deleted after 30 days,

00:02:23 ◼   ► how did they come back?

00:02:25 ◼   ► How did that happen?

00:02:26 ◼   ► Like there were reports where, I don't know if this is true or not, but there were reports

00:02:30 ◼   ► that I was reading that some people were getting photos from a previous device owner.

00:02:37 ◼   ► Well that was like one report on Reddit.

00:02:40 ◼   ► Yeah I mean, you can't be sure of that.

00:02:43 ◼   ► I don't think that was a thing.

00:02:44 ◼   ► It was enough to say that photos that were deleted were coming back and they were longer

00:02:49 ◼   ► than 30 days even.

00:02:50 ◼   ► So where and why are these photos being stored and how on earth did they come back again?

00:02:57 ◼   ► I think there needs to be an explanation for this.

00:03:01 ◼   ► You're right, you're totally right.

00:03:03 ◼   ► I cannot believe Apple hasn't said anything about all that login reset stuff.

00:03:08 ◼   ► But between the two, they need to have some sort of statement.

00:03:11 ◼   ► Because like this is, it's serious.

00:03:14 ◼   ► I mean the nude headlines are one thing, but like all sorts of terrible things can happen

00:03:20 ◼   ► when this comes up.

00:03:22 ◼   ► And it definitely raises the question in my mind as well, like does deleting not mean

00:03:25 ◼   ► deleting?

00:03:26 ◼   ► Like are these hanging out on a server somewhere?

00:03:28 ◼   ► Are they still in my iCloud account just like hidden away somehow?

00:03:34 ◼   ► There needs to be an explanation around this.

00:03:37 ◼   ► But if there hasn't been by now, probably won't be.

00:03:39 ◼   ► Because they've been pretty good recently at getting their statements out and these

00:03:42 ◼   ► are things that people are asking for comment on and they're not giving any.

00:03:47 ◼   ► That's not what you think.

00:03:49 ◼   ► It's not what you think.

00:03:51 ◼   ► Deleting, it's not what you think.

00:03:55 ◼   ► I love it.

00:03:56 ◼   ► That's so good.

00:03:57 ◼   ► That's so good.

00:03:59 ◼   ► T.G., you are the king of moderating, not moderating.

00:04:03 ◼   ► Moderating, yes I'm moderating.

00:04:04 ◼   ► You are the king of moderation.

00:04:05 ◼   ► You better eke out the moderator.

00:04:07 ◼   ► You are the king of modifying, geez, iPads.

00:04:11 ◼   ► Moderatifying.

00:04:12 ◼   ► Moderatifying magic keyboards and iPads and Macs.

00:04:16 ◼   ► We're going to talk about MacPad 2.0 in a little while.

00:04:21 ◼   ► Can you walk me through what's going on with this magic keyboard mod that's floating around?

00:04:24 ◼   ► Yeah, so I saw this post on Threads.

00:04:29 ◼   ► This person noticed that the magic keyboard felt more tippy when used on a desk compared

00:04:36 ◼   ► to the previous one.

00:04:38 ◼   ► The problem is that the redesign hinge of the magic keyboard doesn't touch the desk

00:04:46 ◼   ► or like any flat surface when the keyboard is open and you're typing on your iPad.

00:04:52 ◼   ► This person's solution, Chris Newman on Threads, was to just simply attach some clear silicon

00:04:59 ◼   ► bumpers, like some clear rubber feet essentially, to the hinge and stabilize the keyboard.

00:05:06 ◼   ► It works.

00:05:08 ◼   ► This is something that I also noticed.

00:05:10 ◼   ► I'm going to do this mod myself, not exactly for this reason, but because the new hinge,

00:05:19 ◼   ► I don't like how it scratches my kitchen table because it's this flat aluminum bar on my

00:05:27 ◼   ► kitchen table.

00:05:30 ◼   ► My kitchen table is made of ceramic, so I don't want this thing to get the hinge to

00:05:37 ◼   ► be ruined by the texture of my kitchen table, so I'm just going to apply these clear plastic

00:05:43 ◼   ► bumpers, exactly like Chris did on Threads, to solve that problem.

00:05:49 ◼   ► So yeah, that's what I'm going to do.

00:05:50 ◼   ► It's a clever, simple mod that doesn't involve voiding any warranty for your magic keyboard.

00:05:59 ◼   ► So I have something that I think you'll enjoy Federico, those little rubber guys.

00:06:03 ◼   ► 3M created a product like this and they call them bumpons.

00:06:06 ◼   ► Oh my god, bumpons?

00:06:09 ◼   ► I think you'd like that word, bumpons.

00:06:11 ◼   ► B-U-M-P-O-N, bumpon.

00:06:13 ◼   ► Bumpon?

00:06:14 ◼   ► Bumpon.

00:06:15 ◼   ► Bumpon, I can get them Friday.

00:06:18 ◼   ► And I know this because in keyboards this is what people just call them, so these are

00:06:23 ◼   ► very, this type of little rubber feet that they're all mechanical keyboards because

00:06:29 ◼   ► you don't want the metal on the desk and also it stops the keyboard from moving around.

00:06:33 ◼   ► And so that's where I learned the term bumpons because I have a bunch of bumpons.

00:06:38 ◼   ► Bumpons are great, I put them on everything.

00:06:42 ◼   ► What you are for those rolling squares, I am for bumpons.

00:06:45 ◼   ► I have them on tons of stuff in my house, things that go on kitchen counters and stuff

00:06:50 ◼   ► to stop them moving around like cutting boards and I'm bumping on everything.

00:06:54 ◼   ► Bumpons.

00:06:55 ◼   ► I've used them to replace feet on computers I get into the collection because sometimes

00:07:00 ◼   ► those rubber feet are really sticky or they come off and what's great about them, you

00:07:04 ◼   ► can go to the hardware store and they come in all sorts of sizes.

00:07:07 ◼   ► In clear or brown or black, round, square, it's a great technology.

00:07:15 ◼   ► Bumpon.

00:07:16 ◼   ► Bumpon.

00:07:17 ◼   ► Bumpon.

00:07:18 ◼   ► Listener Greg wrote in, in connected 502 Federico wondered why the body's default remedy to

00:07:24 ◼   ► many situations is a throw up.

00:07:26 ◼   ► Ah yes, yes I did.

00:07:28 ◼   ► If what you see doesn't seem to agree with your other senses, what your other senses

00:07:32 ◼   ► are telling you about your motion, one thing that can cause this is ingesting something

00:07:37 ◼   ► poisonous.

00:07:39 ◼   ► The body simply decides to get rid of everything in case something in it is causing harm.

00:07:44 ◼   ► Huh.

00:07:45 ◼   ► There you go.

00:07:46 ◼   ► Okay so this is like a natural reflex or something that the human body thinks that it ingested

00:07:54 ◼   ► something and so it's like oh let me throw it up you know as a precaution.

00:07:58 ◼   ► Makes sense.

00:07:59 ◼   ► Yeah you eat some some wild mushrooms in the forest and suddenly the ground starts moving.

00:08:04 ◼   ► Yeah it's a good thing just to toss it overboard.

00:08:08 ◼   ► Yeah I was recently talking to a friend.

00:08:11 ◼   ► She relocated to New Zealand a few years ago.

00:08:17 ◼   ► Like the typical story of like abandoning all of her belongings from her previous life.

00:08:22 ◼   ► She's a couple of years younger than me and she tried to sell me on this idea that it's

00:08:27 ◼   ► actually good for you to micro dose on mushrooms.

00:08:30 ◼   ► It's like if you do it in small qualities it's fine.

00:08:33 ◼   ► It's like yeah I'm not gonna do it.

00:08:35 ◼   ► I mean that's what they say.

00:08:37 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:08:38 ◼   ► It's just like no it's actually great for your creativity.

00:08:41 ◼   ► It's like yeah thank you but no I'm not gonna do that.

00:08:44 ◼   ► I bet it is.

00:08:45 ◼   ► I mean you know a hyper card came out of an LSD trip so.

00:08:48 ◼   ► Did it?

00:08:49 ◼   ► It did.

00:08:50 ◼   ► Oh.

00:08:51 ◼   ► Really?

00:08:52 ◼   ► No okay.

00:08:53 ◼   ► We should micro dose on mushrooms and see where it takes us.

00:08:55 ◼   ► Maybe we should consider the mushrooms.

00:08:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:57 ◼   ► Can you imagine how funny this show would be if we were all on mushrooms?

00:09:02 ◼   ► Someone might cut a MacBook Air in half.

00:09:04 ◼   ► Someone might.

00:09:05 ◼   ► But in the other way it's not what you think.

00:09:10 ◼   ► Just like half of the screen off the keyboard.

00:09:13 ◼   ► Or you know like I take the screen out of my studio display and like stick an iPad to

00:09:17 ◼   ► it.

00:09:18 ◼   ► It's like the inverse of the Mac pad.

00:09:21 ◼   ► I want an OLED.

00:09:22 ◼   ► You just flip it around and you're just like you're reaching around and you're like touching

00:09:26 ◼   ► the back you know and like what's happening on the front.

00:09:28 ◼   ► It's like perfect.

00:09:29 ◼   ► That's the way it's going.

00:09:30 ◼   ► Speaking of micro dosing.

00:09:32 ◼   ► Yes.

00:09:33 ◼   ► Speaking of being high.

00:09:39 ◼   ► Humane is looking for a buyer.

00:09:42 ◼   ► This is according to Mark Gurman at Bloomberg.

00:09:45 ◼   ► No they're going to need a big dose not a micro dose for this one.

00:09:49 ◼   ► Yeah they're going to need a big dose of money.

00:09:51 ◼   ► This is the whole basket of mushrooms.

00:09:53 ◼   ► Tell us the price Mike.

00:09:55 ◼   ► So Mark Gurman's reporting that they're trying to sell themselves so that they're engaging

00:09:59 ◼   ► with financial middle people and they are looking for a price somewhere between 750 million

00:10:06 ◼   ► to a billion.

00:10:07 ◼   ► Holy moly.

00:10:09 ◼   ► Which look I mean the thing is if they're going to sell this is the kind of money they

00:10:16 ◼   ► need because of how much money they've raised.

00:10:18 ◼   ► Like we can make a lot of arguments as to whether they're worth that money.

00:10:23 ◼   ► I'm not sure that they are.

00:10:26 ◼   ► They might have an amount of intellectual property that's interesting.

00:10:30 ◼   ► I don't know how you would value any of that.

00:10:34 ◼   ► But this is like they need to return money to the people that invested in them right.

00:10:38 ◼   ► So like if they're going to sell it has to be for this.

00:10:40 ◼   ► I think someone will buy them.

00:10:41 ◼   ► I don't think someone will pay that amount of money.

00:10:44 ◼   ► Like I think they'll probably end up just like everyone just gets what they paid in

00:10:47 ◼   ► which is probably like half a billion or something.

00:10:51 ◼   ► Someone's going to buy them I think.

00:10:53 ◼   ► Yeah it's the world's most expensive laser.

00:10:58 ◼   ► That's probably not true.

00:11:00 ◼   ► I think that they are probably genuinely like interesting to some company because they did

00:11:06 ◼   ► produce a piece of hardware that looked nice right.

00:11:11 ◼   ► And there aren't a lot of people that can do that I feel.

00:11:15 ◼   ► I'm not surprised by this.

00:11:18 ◼   ► Where else are they going to go?

00:11:19 ◼   ► It's either this or it goes out of business probably right.

00:11:22 ◼   ► I think.

00:11:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:24 ◼   ► Realistically.

00:11:25 ◼   ► I made the joke to you guys earlier when we were talking about this in iMessage that if

00:11:29 ◼   ► I was Tim Cook I would buy them and force them to work on the iPhone.

00:11:34 ◼   ► That's what I would do.

00:11:35 ◼   ► You said the iPhone SE.

00:11:37 ◼   ► I did say the iPhone SE specifically because it's the least exciting iPhone.

00:11:42 ◼   ► Sorry iPhone SE users.

00:11:44 ◼   ► You see I didn't want to say that because I didn't want the follow up.

00:11:48 ◼   ► But yeah that's what I would do.

00:11:49 ◼   ► I'd be like you had a lot to say about the smartphone.

00:11:51 ◼   ► Get back to work on the smartphone.

00:11:53 ◼   ► That's what I would do.

00:11:54 ◼   ► But you know.

00:11:56 ◼   ► Steven did you make a decision about your social media username yet?

00:12:01 ◼   ► I did.

00:12:03 ◼   ► Okay.

00:12:04 ◼   ► I am @therealmikehurley.

00:12:06 ◼   ► Please stand up.

00:12:09 ◼   ► Instagram.

00:12:10 ◼   ► Mike Hurley official.

00:12:12 ◼   ► Mom's spaghetti.

00:12:14 ◼   ► /therealmikehurley.

00:12:16 ◼   ► You're a liar.

00:12:20 ◼   ► As always.

00:12:21 ◼   ► As always.

00:12:22 ◼   ► Geez.

00:12:23 ◼   ► Yeah I'm just sticking with ismh86.

00:12:28 ◼   ► Done.

00:12:29 ◼   ► Oh so you've gone everywhere now.

00:12:32 ◼   ► Yes.

00:12:33 ◼   ► You can't.

00:12:34 ◼   ► I don't know if I said this on the show.

00:12:36 ◼   ► But you can't just change a Mastodon username.

00:12:40 ◼   ► Which is bogus Mastodon fetaverse people.

00:12:44 ◼   ► It's not surprising though.

00:12:45 ◼   ► You have to think about it.

00:12:46 ◼   ► You have to create a new account and then you can migrate the account.

00:12:50 ◼   ► But the migration only moves your followers.

00:12:54 ◼   ► So people who follow you will follow your new account.

00:12:57 ◼   ► You have to export a CSV and then import it to your new account to have people you follow

00:13:02 ◼   ► come over to your new account.

00:13:04 ◼   ► Why is that not in the migration?

00:13:06 ◼   ► And there's no way to move your contents like all your old posts just go away.

00:13:09 ◼   ► Which is fine.

00:13:10 ◼   ► I don't care.

00:13:11 ◼   ► But it's very complicated.

00:13:13 ◼   ► And this is now the second time I've done it because I went from mastodon.social to

00:13:16 ◼   ► eWorld.social and now this.

00:13:19 ◼   ► And it's kind of a pain.

00:13:23 ◼   ► But you know open web.

00:13:24 ◼   ► What are you going to do?

00:13:26 ◼   ► It's fun to search for you right now.

00:13:27 ◼   ► Yeah there's probably six of me.

00:13:29 ◼   ► There's so many Stevens.

00:13:30 ◼   ► I know.

00:13:31 ◼   ► So I have a couple of questions for you.

00:13:34 ◼   ► Did you say that you lose the posts or you keep the posts?

00:13:36 ◼   ► You lose them.

00:13:37 ◼   ► Well they don't move to your new account so they're effectively gone.

00:13:42 ◼   ► Oh because also when I search for you I find the threads version of you as well.

00:13:46 ◼   ► Yeah because I have that federated and that is actually broken at the moment.

00:13:53 ◼   ► So I went to the threads interface.

00:13:54 ◼   ► It was like oh I changed what account I need to go to.

00:13:58 ◼   ► So I turned it off and you can't turn it back on for like 30 days.

00:14:03 ◼   ► Makes sense.

00:14:04 ◼   ► Because you don't want to federate too hard.

00:14:05 ◼   ► So it is not federating right now but it will again because I think that's good.

00:14:13 ◼   ► Mums fed-getty.

00:14:17 ◼   ► Fed-daddy.

00:14:20 ◼   ► Fed-averse-getty.

00:14:21 ◼   ► So yeah I don't you know it's not my favorite thing in the world but it's done.

00:14:29 ◼   ► So it's done.

00:14:31 ◼   ► So let this be a lesson to you and everyone.

00:14:34 ◼   ► Don't delete accounts on social media right.

00:14:38 ◼   ► If you want to take a break delete the app.

00:14:40 ◼   ► Don't delete the account because then you end up in this scenario you know.

00:14:45 ◼   ► I think it's rare that somebody changes a username to add numbers but Steven had to

00:14:49 ◼   ► do it so don't delete accounts.

00:14:52 ◼   ► Don't do it.

00:14:53 ◼   ► I was mad because Instagram got bought and rage quit and I should have just.

00:14:57 ◼   ► Now look at you.

00:14:58 ◼   ► And that's what I do with my Twitter account.

00:15:01 ◼   ► It's just like locked and private.

00:15:03 ◼   ► Yeah my Twitter account is just like a ghost.

00:15:07 ◼   ► It really is.

00:15:09 ◼   ► I think I even changed my profile to black and white to make it look like I'm dead.

00:15:14 ◼   ► Wow.

00:15:15 ◼   ► I did that on Twitter.

00:15:16 ◼   ► I have this thing if I ever see a black and white photo of someone I've immediately assumed

00:15:20 ◼   ► that they've died.

00:15:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:22 ◼   ► Do you ever feel this?

00:15:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:24 ◼   ► Like if you're on Instagram if someone posts a black and white photo of someone I'm like

00:15:26 ◼   ► oh no they're dead.

00:15:27 ◼   ► That's my initial thought.

00:15:29 ◼   ► I don't like that.

00:15:30 ◼   ► I just went to Twitter because I was gonna look at my account.

00:15:32 ◼   ► It redirected to x.com and one password doesn't work because all my URLs saved in one password

00:15:38 ◼   ► are for twitter.com not x.com.

00:15:41 ◼   ► I'll just never log in again.

00:15:42 ◼   ► Yeah whatever.

00:15:44 ◼   ► I did not change my account by going on it right now but what I find so funny right now

00:15:48 ◼   ► is you go to like a Twitter page and you very quickly see it and then they pop up a thing

00:15:52 ◼   ► that says log in and I find that so funny like it's so broken.

00:15:55 ◼   ► It is so broken.

00:15:57 ◼   ► It is dead.

00:15:59 ◼   ► Rest in peace.

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00:17:28 ◼   ► Our thanks to NetSuite for the support of the show and Relay FM.

00:17:34 ◼   ► So we should talk about headphones.

00:17:36 ◼   ► There's always a new headphone king in town, maybe?

00:17:40 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:17:41 ◼   ► Sonos, they have officially unveiled their widely speculated and previously rumored and

00:17:47 ◼   ► shown on a bunch of websites, Sonos Ace headphones.

00:17:51 ◼   ► These are over-ear wireless headphones that look pretty good, I would say.

00:17:58 ◼   ► They are reminiscent of the AirPods Max in some ways, the design of the headband and

00:18:05 ◼   ► the arms and the removable magnetic cups that you can remove and replace whenever you want.

00:18:15 ◼   ► They have, of course, some unique integrations with the Sonos ecosystem.

00:18:20 ◼   ► I will leave you to...there's a bunch of videos that you can go check out, but I think Chris

00:18:25 ◼   ► Welch's first look on the verge is a pretty good one.

00:18:29 ◼   ► Chris is the headphone guy on the verge.

00:18:33 ◼   ► Excellent coverage all the time.

00:18:34 ◼   ► He's also been breaking news about these products for their entire existence.

00:18:40 ◼   ► It's very funny that they do continue.

00:18:43 ◼   ► You know what I like about Sonos, actually, is they continue to give this access to Chris.

00:18:48 ◼   ► And Chris is the key person posting the leaks.

00:18:53 ◼   ► I respect that.

00:18:54 ◼   ► I respect that about a company.

00:18:58 ◼   ► This person is like, they are on your beat, but he's still there in the press events.

00:19:03 ◼   ► I respect that about Sonos.

00:19:05 ◼   ► More companies should be like that.

00:19:07 ◼   ► So, yeah, these headphones, they have...so the first unique integration is, of course,

00:19:14 ◼   ► the support for private listening.

00:19:17 ◼   ► So if you're at home and you have Sonos soundbars or other Sonos equipment...

00:19:23 ◼   ► Just Sonos soundbars.

00:19:24 ◼   ► Just Sonos soundbars, okay.

00:19:25 ◼   ► Yeah, just Sonos soundbars.

00:19:27 ◼   ► You can put on your headphones and you can sort of transfer the audio from the soundbar

00:19:32 ◼   ► to the headphones if you want to join in and just listen in using your headphones.

00:19:38 ◼   ► They have these...what's the name of the button that they have?

00:19:42 ◼   ► The content button?

00:19:44 ◼   ► The content key.

00:19:45 ◼   ► Content key.

00:19:46 ◼   ► Yeah, the content key, which is this metal slider that you can use to adjust volume and

00:19:51 ◼   ► press to play and pause, as well as to long press if you want to beam the audio from the

00:19:56 ◼   ► TV to the headphones.

00:19:59 ◼   ► They look pretty good, I think.

00:20:02 ◼   ► They're not made of aluminum as the AirPods Max.

00:20:06 ◼   ► They have a really cool-looking case that also uses magnets to line up the different

00:20:12 ◼   ► parts that you need to store and carry.

00:20:15 ◼   ► I'm not gonna buy this, but we do have a long time at this point, Sonos customer, the real

00:20:24 ◼   ► Mike Hurley.

00:20:26 ◼   ► What do you think about these Sonos headphones?

00:20:30 ◼   ► I think that it's interesting, the decisions that they made.

00:20:34 ◼   ► I think they made the right decisions, though.

00:20:39 ◼   ► These headphones do not integrate with the Sonos system that you would be used to as

00:20:44 ◼   ► a Sonos customer.

00:20:46 ◼   ► So you can't be listening to something on Sonos speakers and then have that music also

00:20:55 ◼   ► playing the headphones.

00:20:56 ◼   ► It doesn't work like that.

00:20:58 ◼   ► These are Bluetooth headphones, first and foremost, and then they have the one integration

00:21:02 ◼   ► with the Sonos system, which is if you have, at the moment, it's just their most expensive

00:21:07 ◼   ► soundbar but they're gonna be bringing it to their other soundbars where you can do

00:21:10 ◼   ► this thing of like, "I'm watching something on TV and now I can just bring that audio

00:21:14 ◼   ► to me."

00:21:16 ◼   ► These are fully featured headphones.

00:21:19 ◼   ► They've got Dolby Atmos and surround sound and they say they have best in class noise

00:21:26 ◼   ► cancellation, they have transparency mode.

00:21:29 ◼   ► So if you are a Sonos customer, it's weird because here's a Sonos product that doesn't

00:21:34 ◼   ► work like a Sonos product, but I actually think this was the right decision because

00:21:38 ◼   ► I think it would have been weirder to be like, "Here's a pair of headphones and you can

00:21:42 ◼   ► only listen to them in your house."

00:21:44 ◼   ► That would have been very strange as a product to exist.

00:21:48 ◼   ► So I think that this is a smart product of like, what I hope that they have done here

00:21:52 ◼   ► is we have made an excellent pair of headphones that are Bluetooth headphones.

00:21:56 ◼   ► You can listen to them on your phone, your iPad, when you're traveling, and then it

00:22:03 ◼   ► may bring more people into the Sonos ecosystem, right?

00:22:06 ◼   ► Where they're like, "I really like these, what else do they do?"

00:22:09 ◼   ► So that might be a thing that we see more of.

00:22:12 ◼   ► For me, I am obviously very intrigued about this product because I am a big fan of Sonos'

00:22:18 ◼   ► stuff.

00:22:19 ◼   ► We spoke about it in the pro show, but I know there's this big controversy about the app

00:22:22 ◼   ► right now.

00:22:24 ◼   ► The app is fine for me because I don't use the features that are missing and I actually

00:22:29 ◼   ► like the new design.

00:22:32 ◼   ► And I'm intrigued about these headphones.

00:22:34 ◼   ► I'm very intrigued to see the full reviews, like how good is the noise cancellation.

00:22:38 ◼   ► But really what I want, what would be best for me is I want AirPods Max 2.

00:22:44 ◼   ► That's what I want.

00:22:46 ◼   ► Because what I want is all of the stuff that's in my AirPods Pro, but in my AirPods Max.

00:22:51 ◼   ► I want active transparency, I want USB-C, I want voice, like conversation detection,

00:22:59 ◼   ► like I want all that stuff.

00:23:00 ◼   ► And that's obviously not what the Sonos has because that's Apple stuff.

00:23:04 ◼   ► So I'm just going to sit hoping and waiting for the AirPods Max 2 because I don't want

00:23:11 ◼   ► to buy two sets of $400 headphones within like a year or whatever.

00:23:16 ◼   ► And I would say the AirPods Max, they are still excellent headphones, even though they

00:23:21 ◼   ► miss a bunch of features.

00:23:22 ◼   ► But they are still super good.

00:23:24 ◼   ► So if I didn't have any of these and I was maybe making a decision about a pair of headphones

00:23:28 ◼   ► to buy, I could see myself making this decision based on how good or not the reviews are.

00:23:34 ◼   ► But I would struggle to replace my AirPods Max of these when if AirPods Max 2 come, which

00:23:41 ◼   ► I do think they still will, then I would want those more, I reckon.

00:23:47 ◼   ► But these are, this is an interesting product.

00:23:49 ◼   ► I think they've done a, I think this, you know, looks way more compelling as a version

00:23:55 ◼   ► one product than you would expect a version one product to be, right?

00:23:59 ◼   ► Just like the overall finish of these look really, really good.

00:24:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:03 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree.

00:24:04 ◼   ► Mike, you have an iPad Pro.

00:24:06 ◼   ► Tell us about it.

00:24:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:08 ◼   ► So I love my iPad Pro.

00:24:09 ◼   ► I have an 11 inch iPad Pro.

00:24:12 ◼   ► I've had it since Saturday and I am enamored by this product.

00:24:19 ◼   ► I am excited to use it.

00:24:21 ◼   ► It makes me happy to use it.

00:24:24 ◼   ► Which is a feeling that comes along not every time that I have a new Apple product, right?

00:24:32 ◼   ► You know, like recently, like obviously the vision pro cause it was all brand new, but

00:24:36 ◼   ► like I think about something like the iPhone 12, no 14.

00:24:42 ◼   ► What was the one that went flat sides?

00:24:43 ◼   ► Was it 14?

00:24:44 ◼   ► No, I think it was the 12.

00:24:48 ◼   ► Okay.

00:24:49 ◼   ► So that one was like, Oh, I loved that phone.

00:24:51 ◼   ► Right.

00:24:52 ◼   ► And I think about it, like this is so nice and new in its way or, um, even to an L to

00:24:56 ◼   ► a point that the 15 because of the lightness, but not, it didn't have as much.

00:25:01 ◼   ► Or I think about something like Apple watch ultra, which is like the first Apple watch

00:25:05 ◼   ► in many years and, or the, uh, the M2 MacBook air, because like there are these devices

00:25:10 ◼   ► that take these big leaps.

00:25:11 ◼   ► And for me coming from an iPad mini huge leap, right?

00:25:16 ◼   ► Like, and as well, like the last iPad pro that I used was a 2020 iPad pro.

00:25:22 ◼   ► So the best screen technology I had was promotion.

00:25:26 ◼   ► I never had many LEDs.

00:25:27 ◼   ► So going to an OLED is fantastic.

00:25:29 ◼   ► All of the new pencil stuff is incredible.

00:25:32 ◼   ► I found last night that if you use, you know, I still, now I'm using an iPad pro again,

00:25:37 ◼   ► I'm using my Apple pencil was for navigation as well as I am for like scribbling around,

00:25:41 ◼   ► but they added a little haptic for if you long press on stuff.

00:25:46 ◼   ► So if you long press on stuff, the pencil clicks, it's like, great.

00:25:49 ◼   ► I love that.

00:25:50 ◼   ► I want that.

00:25:51 ◼   ► So these little details are just fantastic.

00:25:53 ◼   ► I love, I love the new smart folio.

00:25:56 ◼   ► The fact that I can put it in different orientations, it's a little fiddly, but it does the job.

00:26:01 ◼   ► Um, yeah, this, I think this iPad is fantastic.

00:26:04 ◼   ► I'm super, super happy with it.

00:26:06 ◼   ► And you know, I spoke about this upgrade, but like, I don't have any real desire to

00:26:11 ◼   ► use my iPad for more than what Apple wants you to use an iPad for.

00:26:15 ◼   ► And like, this is no shade on any friends of mine, right?

00:26:18 ◼   ► Like I have, I have lived that life.

00:26:20 ◼   ► You're talking about me?

00:26:21 ◼   ► You have a problem?

00:26:22 ◼   ► I don't know anyone, you know, Steven maybe.

00:26:24 ◼   ► But I've been in those trenches.

00:26:27 ◼   ► I lived that life, but now I just, I use my iPad for content consumption and I'm very

00:26:34 ◼   ► happy with that.

00:26:35 ◼   ► And this one is like, it's fantastic.

00:26:38 ◼   ► It's fantastic because it's all content looks and feels better on it.

00:26:42 ◼   ► So thin, super light.

00:26:43 ◼   ► Like I'm still having, I pick it up and I'm like, man, that's so light.

00:26:47 ◼   ► Yeah, this is just for me, an incredible product and I'm very happy with it.

00:26:51 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:26:52 ◼   ► Um, you know that Apple pencil squeezes never worked for me.

00:26:57 ◼   ► Have you adjusted the sensitivity?

00:27:00 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:27:03 ◼   ► What I mean is that I go in settings and I assign, run a shortcut as an action for the

00:27:11 ◼   ► squeeze.

00:27:12 ◼   ► Then I back out of that page, right?

00:27:16 ◼   ► I go to the previous screen and it says squeeze turned off.

00:27:21 ◼   ► I opened the setting again.

00:27:22 ◼   ► I say, when I squeeze run a shortcut, then I go back and it says off.

00:27:28 ◼   ► And so I rebooted my iPad.

00:27:30 ◼   ► I installed 17.5.1.

00:27:33 ◼   ► I try it again.

00:27:34 ◼   ► It's like the setting doesn't stick for me.

00:27:38 ◼   ► Like, so the squeezes currently useless on my iPad.

00:27:42 ◼   ► Have you played around with it without the shortcut?

00:27:44 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:27:45 ◼   ► Like just, just in the notes and stuff like that.

00:27:48 ◼   ► Why would I?

00:27:49 ◼   ► I guarantee you it's shortcuts.

00:27:50 ◼   ► I can barely hold the pencil in my hands.

00:27:52 ◼   ► Like I don't even know.

00:27:53 ◼   ► Like yesterday I had to fill out a form using a pen.

00:27:55 ◼   ► I was like, do I even know how to write anymore?

00:27:58 ◼   ► Oh boy.

00:27:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:00 ◼   ► Well, I like it, but if it didn't work for me, I would also, I would be unhappy, you

00:28:06 ◼   ► know?

00:28:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:09 ◼   ► So hopefully it'll get fixed.

00:28:10 ◼   ► That's fine.

00:28:11 ◼   ► I apologize, right?

00:28:12 ◼   ► You know?

00:28:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:14 ◼   ► I'm just kidding.

00:28:15 ◼   ► Put Mac OS on it.

00:28:16 ◼   ► No, I'm just kidding.

00:28:17 ◼   ► But maybe.

00:28:18 ◼   ► Steven, have you kept yours?

00:28:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:21 ◼   ► Nice.

00:28:22 ◼   ► Nice.

00:28:23 ◼   ► I got to say as a listener of the show last week, just a great moment.

00:28:26 ◼   ► Just a great moment.

00:28:27 ◼   ► That was a classic Steven moment.

00:28:29 ◼   ► When Steven announced that he had an iPad, which I knew was going to happen.

00:28:34 ◼   ► Like I was very confident it was going to happen, but it was beautiful the way it was

00:28:38 ◼   ► unveiled to the world.

00:28:40 ◼   ► Federico had asked me before we hit record, I just didn't answer.

00:28:43 ◼   ► I just talked about something else.

00:28:46 ◼   ► What is that?

00:28:47 ◼   ► We're talking about it on the show.

00:28:48 ◼   ► I was like, okay.

00:28:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:50 ◼   ► Talk about it on the show.

00:28:51 ◼   ► What about your iPad mini, Mike?

00:28:52 ◼   ► Is it, is it going to be jettisoned to a family member or.

00:28:57 ◼   ► I think it's going to have to be, I'm giving it a little bit more time because what I thought

00:29:02 ◼   ► I would want to keep it for is for reading comics at night because the screen is so small

00:29:07 ◼   ► and the products are so small.

00:29:08 ◼   ► It makes it very easy to hold, right?

00:29:10 ◼   ► Like the 11 inch while thin and light is still bigger, you know what I mean?

00:29:13 ◼   ► And it's like, it makes it a bit more cumbersome, but the screen is just so much better.

00:29:18 ◼   ► Right?

00:29:19 ◼   ► So like the comics I'm reading look better on an OLED screen than the, I would say sub

00:29:25 ◼   ► par LCD screen of the iPad mini.

00:29:30 ◼   ► It's not as good as the other iPads.

00:29:33 ◼   ► And so I keep looking at that mini and I'm like, I love you little guy, but I'm just

00:29:38 ◼   ► not sure.

00:29:39 ◼   ► I don't think I can do it.

00:29:41 ◼   ► Like I think I've got to go.

00:29:42 ◼   ► You had a good time together.

00:29:43 ◼   ► I think I've got to go with the 11 inch.

00:29:44 ◼   ► Now it's time to move on.

00:29:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:47 ◼   ► We had a great time together, me and Patrick.

00:29:48 ◼   ► Like we had a wonderful love affair, but I think it's time to move on.

00:29:53 ◼   ► Love affair you would say?

00:29:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:55 ◼   ► Okay.

00:29:56 ◼   ► I'm going to let go of my short king and I'm going for a tall guy now.

00:29:59 ◼   ► Looking for some, something else.

00:30:02 ◼   ► I wonder what you were going to say there, Stephen.

00:30:04 ◼   ► I just, no, I just stopped.

00:30:05 ◼   ► I just stopped.

00:30:06 ◼   ► You just immediately just jettisoned out of that one.

00:30:09 ◼   ► What have you done?

00:30:10 ◼   ► You don't have the magic keyboard.

00:30:11 ◼   ► You're just using the smart folio.

00:30:14 ◼   ► I got a smart folio in denim.

00:30:18 ◼   ► It's a useless color, but it's, it's nice.

00:30:21 ◼   ► Like, and I think, I think it was an upgrade.

00:30:24 ◼   ► Jason says something that blew my mind.

00:30:25 ◼   ► It was like, I keep my iPad pro in the folio and then I put it in the magic keyboard.

00:30:30 ◼   ► Do I need the keyboard?

00:30:31 ◼   ► And I've always used mine the other way around.

00:30:33 ◼   ► And so I'm going to give that a try.

00:30:35 ◼   ► I'm going to leave the magic keyboard at my desk, like in the drawer, and then when it's

00:30:39 ◼   ► time to like take it someplace to a meeting or something, or when, you know, do a little

00:30:44 ◼   ► light email or something on it, then, uh, then slap it in the keyboard.

00:30:48 ◼   ► See how that goes.

00:30:49 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:30:50 ◼   ► Cause it doesn't feel drastically thinner with the magic keyboard on it compared to the old

00:30:54 ◼   ► one.

00:30:55 ◼   ► It is, but the smart folio really makes it feel thinner.

00:30:58 ◼   ► That's a good idea.

00:30:59 ◼   ► Keeping it because I've also been like, now that you mentioned it, I've also been doing

00:31:03 ◼   ► it the other way around.

00:31:04 ◼   ► Like it's always in the magic keyboard and I've been keeping like the smart folio usually

00:31:08 ◼   ► on my nightstand because that's what I want to do.

00:31:10 ◼   ► Like non-work things on the iPad at night, like watch a movie or play a video game or

00:31:15 ◼   ► something.

00:31:16 ◼   ► But I am intrigued by thinking about it the other way around actually.

00:31:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:21 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:31:22 ◼   ► It's good.

00:31:23 ◼   ► Uh, it's a good iPad.

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00:32:54 ◼   ► Federico, we've all been holding our breath, waiting to see what you were going to do with

00:33:02 ◼   ► the Mac pad with the new iPad Pro out.

00:33:06 ◼   ► I know you went to the 13 inch this time.

00:33:09 ◼   ► You have a story on Mac stories about some of this.

00:33:12 ◼   ► How's that gone?

00:33:13 ◼   ► Are you liking it?

00:33:14 ◼   ► How's the OLED life with the Mac pad?

00:33:17 ◼   ► It's incredible.

00:33:18 ◼   ► OLED looks really, really nice on Mac OS.

00:33:23 ◼   ► Being the iPad Pro ready for the Mac pad was like a 10 minute deal.

00:33:26 ◼   ► I just, I knew that I was going to have to get, that I needed to get like this back cover

00:33:33 ◼   ► that I had to cut just like I did with the previous one, attach three magnets to it and

00:33:39 ◼   ► then it was good to go because like the MacBook was already, of course, half of the MacBook

00:33:46 ◼   ► was already good to go.

00:33:47 ◼   ► I just needed to prepare the mounting system, which will be the back cover on the iPad with

00:33:52 ◼   ► three magnets lined up.

00:33:54 ◼   ► And yeah, there was a 10 minute deal and I just ran my shortcut to enable sidecar and

00:34:00 ◼   ► there it was, Mac OS on OLED, which looks fantastic.

00:34:04 ◼   ► I mean, the wallpapers look especially good.

00:34:07 ◼   ► And even like something that Jason mentioned in his review of the iPad Pro, which is you

00:34:11 ◼   ► can tell the quality of OLED even just by looking at things like black text on a white

00:34:16 ◼   ► background.

00:34:17 ◼   ► Like, I also noticed that on Mac OS with like the names of folders and files in Finder when

00:34:25 ◼   ► you're using light mode, like I can tell that the black color of the text is crisper and

00:34:31 ◼   ► darker than before, which is nice.

00:34:35 ◼   ► And yeah, then, then like, I guess the more interesting part of this experiment, which

00:34:40 ◼   ► is something that I'm still working on, is something that is still a bit of a work in

00:34:46 ◼   ► progress.

00:34:47 ◼   ► And that is, so in this current version of the Mac pad, when I detach the screen, so

00:34:53 ◼   ► when I grab the iPad, the iPad, I only have a back cover for it, right?

00:35:00 ◼   ► It doesn't have a front anymore.

00:35:04 ◼   ► And I was thinking about this and I realized, well, it's not convenient.

00:35:09 ◼   ► Like it works as a mounting system, but then I don't have a folio anymore.

00:35:15 ◼   ► Like it's just the back because the front I cut with a knife.

00:35:20 ◼   ► And so I started thinking, is there a way that I can actually keep the best of both

00:35:25 ◼   ► worlds, which would be attach the iPad as a screen for the Mac pad, but also when I

00:35:31 ◼   ► detach it, I can have a folio that does all the things that folio does, which is there's

00:35:37 ◼   ► a front cover and you can fold it and you can prop it up on your lap or on a desk or

00:35:42 ◼   ► you can use it to type in landscape or something.

00:35:46 ◼   ► So I started playing around with these ideas and I had a first version based on a mod for

00:35:54 ◼   ► the Apple Smart Folio.

00:35:56 ◼   ► I attached three magnets to the front of the Smart Folio and I realized that if I fold

00:36:04 ◼   ► the folio in a particular way, which is different from the default one, there was a way to attach,

00:36:11 ◼   ► there's a photo on Mac stories that shows what I mean.

00:36:15 ◼   ► There was a way to attach the folio without cutting anything to the Mac pad.

00:36:22 ◼   ► But when I did that, I noticed that the iPad would tilt backwards because that folded section,

00:36:32 ◼   ► the iPad essentially became a lever and it would cause that folded section to, well,

00:36:38 ◼   ► unfold because of the weight.

00:36:41 ◼   ► So I put together this very ugly, I gotta say it's very ugly, it works, but it's ugly,

00:36:50 ◼   ► prototype that uses a Velcro strip to keep that folded section together.

00:36:57 ◼   ► And so go check out the photos because it's easier to see in practice what I mean.

00:37:02 ◼   ► This solution works and I've been using it.

00:37:06 ◼   ► It's a way to keep a working Smart Folio that when you detach the iPad from the MacBook,

00:37:15 ◼   ► it's still a Smart Folio that you can fold, that you can close on top of the iPad.

00:37:19 ◼   ► I don't love this first version because I used magnets that are too big, so I want to

00:37:28 ◼   ► do a second revision with smaller magnets and also I used too much Velcro.

00:37:35 ◼   ► I tried, as I mentioned in the story, I tried replacing Velcro with micro suction tape.

00:37:40 ◼   ► It doesn't work because the weight of the iPad is too much.

00:37:46 ◼   ► So I will need to use Velcro again.

00:37:48 ◼   ► Maybe I can find a thinner Velcro, but for sure I gotta use less of it because I was

00:37:54 ◼   ► a little too concerned in this first take on this experiment and I used too much.

00:38:01 ◼   ► And so in the second revision, if I can find a thinner Velcro, that would be ideal, but

00:38:08 ◼   ► also use less of it.

00:38:10 ◼   ► The Velcro is to kind of hold the cover of the Smart Cover out of the way basically,

00:38:17 ◼   ► right?

00:38:18 ◼   ► Yes.

00:38:19 ◼   ► So if you take a look at the photos, when the front part of the cover folds on itself

00:38:27 ◼   ► and I attach it to the magnets, without the Velcro, the iPad would tilt backwards.

00:38:34 ◼   ► The magnets need to be stuck to the rigid part of the Smart Cover, which goes on the

00:38:40 ◼   ► back.

00:38:41 ◼   ► Yes.

00:38:42 ◼   ► Yes.

00:38:43 ◼   ► So that part, because of the weight of the iPad, it's because the iPad in that configuration

00:38:46 ◼   ► is very top heavy, so the top part of the iPad would push the cover backwards and so

00:38:54 ◼   ► the Velcro acts as a resistance in the bottom section.

00:38:58 ◼   ► And so even though there's weight, the Velcro keeps it together.

00:39:03 ◼   ► This is where I'm probably going to need Dr. Drang to design a magnet.

00:39:07 ◼   ► You need a structural engineer at this point.

00:39:09 ◼   ► I need an engineer to take care of this for me.

00:39:11 ◼   ► So Dr, if you're listening, hit me with any tips as long as it doesn't involve any equations.

00:39:17 ◼   ► But yeah, I'm liking this a lot.

00:39:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:22 ◼   ► Go check out the pictures.

00:39:25 ◼   ► And that's...

00:39:26 ◼   ► Yeah, I've been using it.

00:39:29 ◼   ► It's lovely with OLED.

00:39:31 ◼   ► It works amazingly well.

00:39:32 ◼   ► And yeah, the MacPad lives on, even with the new iPad Pro.

00:39:38 ◼   ► It looks much better with the 13 inch.

00:39:41 ◼   ► It's much more visually balanced than before.

00:39:44 ◼   ► Mike saw the original version in real life and it looked funny with the 11 inch iPad

00:39:49 ◼   ► Pro.

00:39:50 ◼   ► Now it looks much better.

00:39:51 ◼   ► So yeah, go MacPad.

00:39:53 ◼   ► Go MacPad.

00:39:54 ◼   ► It's kind of the beauty of this product, right?

00:39:57 ◼   ► Is that you can update it component by component.

00:40:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:02 ◼   ► Imagine that.

00:40:03 ◼   ► I'm just so curious to say, naked robotic core.

00:40:05 ◼   ► That's right.

00:40:06 ◼   ► It's like that.

00:40:07 ◼   ► I don't think he was talking about cutting a MacBook Air in half, but...

00:40:09 ◼   ► I mean, it's more naked if you're cutting the screen off.

00:40:13 ◼   ► It's more naked than it was previously.

00:40:14 ◼   ► It's more something.

00:40:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:16 ◼   ► I feel like say that you want to update to an M4 MacBook Air or something.

00:40:21 ◼   ► And they were like, yeah, you can do these things separately.

00:40:24 ◼   ► That's pretty cool.

00:40:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:27 ◼   ► Or maybe a Co-Pilot plus Windows PC.

00:40:28 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:40:29 ◼   ► Oh, we can talk about that.

00:40:30 ◼   ► We're going to get to that.

00:40:33 ◼   ► Don't you worry.

00:40:34 ◼   ► You can do anything.

00:40:35 ◼   ► You can do anything now.

00:40:36 ◼   ► We're going to get to that.

00:40:37 ◼   ► You put a Surface on top of the MacBook.

00:40:39 ◼   ► It's like, you're free.

00:40:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:42 ◼   ► I know, Federico, you've spoken about macOS being usable on the 11-inch display when you're

00:40:48 ◼   ► in that mode.

00:40:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:50 ◼   ► But is it better, noticeably better on the 13?

00:40:52 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:40:53 ◼   ► I mean, yes, it is.

00:40:54 ◼   ► It absolutely is.

00:40:55 ◼   ► It feels...

00:40:56 ◼   ► It's a traditional computer display.

00:40:59 ◼   ► It was fine before.

00:41:00 ◼   ► Like, I remember being a huge fan of the 11-inch MacBook Air a decade ago or something when

00:41:05 ◼   ► it was around.

00:41:06 ◼   ► What a beautiful time that was, you know?

00:41:07 ◼   ► Great computer.

00:41:08 ◼   ► They should do one again, but they won't.

00:41:11 ◼   ► So it was usable.

00:41:13 ◼   ► It's obviously much better on the 13.

00:41:17 ◼   ► It makes more sense.

00:41:18 ◼   ► And, yeah, the window sizes, they're more comfortable.

00:41:22 ◼   ► The dock is the proper size.

00:41:25 ◼   ► Like, everything makes more sense on the 13-inch.

00:41:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:30 ◼   ► They've sold Macs smaller than that now, right?

00:41:32 ◼   ► You are now fully in MacBook-size screen territory.

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00:44:01 ◼   ► We spoke last week a lot about OpenAI's announcements and commented that the voice sounded a little

00:44:08 ◼   ► familiar and turns out that they done goofed or committed a crime.

00:44:15 ◼   ► That's a way to say it.

00:44:16 ◼   ► Done goofed.

00:44:17 ◼   ► Would you mind if I give my attempt at an abridged version of the chain of events?

00:44:23 ◼   ► Please.

00:44:24 ◼   ► Please.

00:44:25 ◼   ► OpenAI had a voice named Sky.

00:44:27 ◼   ► This voice predated the GPT-4O launch.

00:44:31 ◼   ► It was one of the pre-selected voices that you can have because they've had the voice

00:44:35 ◼   ► thing for a while.

00:44:38 ◼   ► This voice sounded an awful lot like Scarlett Johansson, essentially referencing her role

00:44:45 ◼   ► in the movie, her where she plays a voice AI.

00:44:49 ◼   ► During the launch of GPT-4O, they spent a lot more time with the voice stuff than they

00:44:57 ◼   ► had previously.

00:44:58 ◼   ► It's actually the entire presentation really, talking to and hearing it talk back.

00:45:08 ◼   ► They were also showing off improvements that they were making to the voice technology to

00:45:12 ◼   ► make it sound more real like breath and stuff like that.

00:45:18 ◼   ► Lots of people also recognise the voice similarities to Johansson.

00:45:22 ◼   ► They were like, "Oh, this sounds just like her.

00:45:25 ◼   ► It was in media."

00:45:26 ◼   ► There was an SNL joke about it, which is particularly funny because the person who said the joke

00:45:35 ◼   ► is Scarlett's husband, Colin Jost.

00:45:39 ◼   ► OpenAI will get lots of questions about this because it's like, "Hey, this sounds like

00:45:45 ◼   ► that very famous actress who was in that movie."

00:45:49 ◼   ► Sam Altman tweeted the word "her" after the presentation.

00:45:55 ◼   ► OpenAI took the voice down after receiving lots of questions about it.

00:46:00 ◼   ► Then Scarlett Johansson released a statement.

00:46:03 ◼   ► Should I read the statement?

00:46:07 ◼   ► Last September, I received an offer from Sam Altman who wanted to hire me to voice the

00:46:12 ◼   ► current ChatGPT 4.0 system.

00:46:15 ◼   ► So I've read this initially and thought, "Was that written wrong?

00:46:19 ◼   ► Did that mean 4.0?"

00:46:20 ◼   ► I was like, "No, actually that's GPT 4."

00:46:23 ◼   ► Which is when they brought the voice in and also last September.

00:46:28 ◼   ► He told me that he felt that by voicing the system, I could bridge the gap between tech

00:46:32 ◼   ► companies and creatives and help consumers to feel comfortable with the seismic shift

00:46:36 ◼   ► concerning humans and AI.

00:46:38 ◼   ► He said he felt that my voice would be comforting to people.

00:46:41 ◼   ► After much consideration and for personal reasons, I declined the offer.

00:46:45 ◼   ► 9 months later, my friends, family and the general public all noted how much the newest

00:46:50 ◼   ► system named Sky sounded like me.

00:46:54 ◼   ► When I heard the release demo, I was shocked, angered and disbelief that Mr Altman would

00:46:58 ◼   ► pursue a voice that sounded so eerily similar to mine that my closest friends and news outlets

00:47:02 ◼   ► could not tell the difference.

00:47:03 ◼   ► Mr Altman even insinuated that the similarity was intentional to eating a single word "her",

00:47:08 ◼   ► a reference to the film in which I voiced the chat system Samantha who forms an intimate

00:47:12 ◼   ► relationship with a human.

00:47:14 ◼   ► Two days before the chat GPT 4.0 demo was released, but Mr Altman contacted my agent

00:47:24 ◼   ► asking me to reconsider.

00:47:25 ◼   ► Before we would reconnect, the system was out there.

00:47:28 ◼   ► As a result of their actions, I was forced to hire legal counsel who wrote two letters

00:47:32 ◼   ► to Mr Altman and OpenAI, setting out what they had done and asking them to detail the

00:47:36 ◼   ► exact process by which they recreated the Sky voice.

00:47:39 ◼   ► Consequently, OpenAI reluctantly agreed to take down the Sky voice.

00:47:43 ◼   ► In a time when we were all grappling with deep fakes and the protection of our own likeness,

00:47:48 ◼   ► our own work, our own identities and I believe there are questions that deserve absolute

00:47:53 ◼   ► clarity, I look forward to resolution in the form of transparency in the passage of appropriate

00:47:58 ◼   ► legislation to help ensure that individual rights are protected.

00:48:02 ◼   ► All time great statement, once again Scarlett Johansson is out there sticking it to the

00:48:08 ◼   ► big companies, don't forget she sued Disney and won.

00:48:11 ◼   ► I think they settled but nevertheless she was right in what she was doing at the time

00:48:16 ◼   ► than she is right now.

00:48:20 ◼   ► OpenAI are saying that this is a coincidence and that it is another voice actor who just

00:48:29 ◼   ► so happens to sound like Scarlett Johansson.

00:48:34 ◼   ► Which I just believe is a lie.

00:48:40 ◼   ► One of these things is a lie.

00:48:42 ◼   ► Either it's a lie that it is a voice actor who just so happens to sound like her or what

00:48:50 ◼   ► I honestly think is happening is this is a synthetic voice that they created, trained

00:48:54 ◼   ► on her voice.

00:48:55 ◼   ► I don't know if you two had experienced it all but I have access to GPT 4.0 and so

00:49:03 ◼   ► you can talk to it and the voice is still good but not as good and my voice was set

00:49:09 ◼   ► to the sky voice and when I was on vacation I wanted to see how Adina would talk to it

00:49:15 ◼   ► because she's not going to be kind to the machine where I might be in that way, she

00:49:21 ◼   ► was just asking it questions where I might let things go or phrase things in such a way

00:49:26 ◼   ► that I know I'm talking to a computer.

00:49:28 ◼   ► She had a conversation with it for a couple of minutes and was asking it advice about

00:49:31 ◼   ► what we could do on our trip.

00:49:33 ◼   ► It just sounded like her.

00:49:35 ◼   ► I don't believe for a second that this is a coincidence because it sounded just like

00:49:41 ◼   ► her.

00:49:42 ◼   ► So that's kind of the news as it is so far.

00:49:47 ◼   ► The really damning part in my mind is that they contacted her agent two days before the

00:49:52 ◼   ► demo.

00:49:55 ◼   ► This is like when my kids were younger and you come in and there's like a mess in the

00:49:59 ◼   ► kitchen or in their room like hey did you make this mess you're the only one here like

00:50:03 ◼   ► no I don't know who made this mess like well you did you're just lying to me very transparently

00:50:08 ◼   ► and I mean as bad as this is and this is pretty bad really bad and boy to your point Mike

00:50:17 ◼   ► they mess with the wrong person I would not want to be on the other end of Scarlett Johansson's

00:50:21 ◼   ► lawyers but this is yet another example of this company and probably other companies

00:50:30 ◼   ► in this field using information that's not theirs to build their products right remember

00:50:35 ◼   ► the thing a couple of weeks ago when their CTO was asked if Sora was was trained on YouTube

00:50:43 ◼   ► video YouTube videos and there's like it's not an answer like well yeah of course it

00:50:48 ◼   ► was oh we trained different things we found on the internet yeah like the youtube.com

00:50:52 ◼   ► website this is the same to me the same sort of we can do whatever we want get out of our

00:51:00 ◼   ► way that I find increasingly distasteful from this company and it just they they think they

00:51:08 ◼   ► can just do whatever they want to get away with it like I don't they may not in this

00:51:12 ◼   ► case but it is it is really gross well they don't care right that it's this is their attitude

00:51:20 ◼   ► I guess it's just we're the cool guys and and we are changing the tech industry we can

00:51:26 ◼   ► do whatever we want which I think it's a that's a very toxic attitude honestly like just disregarding

00:51:33 ◼   ► completely I mean getting in touch with her agent two days before and yeah just going

00:51:38 ◼   ► ahead because hey what's what what are they gonna do to us you know like we have billions

00:51:42 ◼   ► of dollars what like I really dislike everything about this honestly. The thing that like I

00:51:50 ◼   ► think annoys me the most is the stupidity of it like you didn't need to do any of this

00:51:57 ◼   ► and it would have been fine you know like none of these things had to happen you you

00:52:00 ◼   ► didn't need to get Scarlett Johansson anyway like you didn't need to get her voice right

00:52:07 ◼   ► like it doesn't matter it could just be any voice why does it need to be the voice from

00:52:11 ◼   ► the movie which I know this is like an old joke at this point but like that movie ends

00:52:17 ◼   ► real bad like I don't understand why you want to make that connection so much and also why

00:52:23 ◼   ► like Altman thinks that like her like the her voice would be the right thing to bridge

00:52:31 ◼   ► the gap like that doesn't make any sense. Yeah you missed the message of the film. Yes

00:52:38 ◼   ► and like I just GPT 4.0 is really impressive no one cares now right this is completely

00:52:47 ◼   ► overshadowed it and so like all of these people inside of open AI have done the work that

00:52:51 ◼   ► they've done to make this technology. Well there's fewer people than there used to be

00:52:54 ◼   ► did you see like the flood of people leaving in the wake of the demos? Yeah I don't know

00:52:59 ◼   ► about all of that like I don't really know I heard about a couple of executives left

00:53:04 ◼   ► right I don't know about anybody else personally but like yeah some of it was some of the people

00:53:08 ◼   ► behind the coup like the the other executive that was part of that yeah and then some people

00:53:15 ◼   ► apparently on the product safety team left as well. Okay I mean like I don't know what

00:53:20 ◼   ► that was all in relation to I think that might just be like the fallout of the coup. Yeah

00:53:25 ◼   ► yeah my point was just all the people working there and I was just like well there's fewer

00:53:29 ◼   ► people than there used to be I don't think there was like a Scarlett Johansson protest

00:53:33 ◼   ► within the company. Okay I was sorry I wasn't sure if that was what what you what you meant

00:53:38 ◼   ► but like all of these people did this work and like now it kind of doesn't matter right

00:53:43 ◼   ► and it's all just because of the the idiocy of Altman in this scenario right it's just

00:53:49 ◼   ► like why even do any of this like what are you doing like you should be doing everything

00:53:55 ◼   ► you possibly can to make people warm up to your company. Yeah. Because people are rightly

00:54:02 ◼   ► so really hesitant of this right and like this is like this era of technology has promise

00:54:12 ◼   ► there are interesting things that are going on but there's also a lot of really unsettling

00:54:18 ◼   ► things that are going on you don't need to add to the unsettling by doing things that

00:54:23 ◼   ► don't even make any sense like why would you do this? I want to read a quick quote from

00:54:29 ◼   ► Casey Newton a platformer. It's narrative about so open AI's narrative about the Johansson

00:54:36 ◼   ► debacle is essentially that its chief executive slipped on a series of banana peels over the

00:54:40 ◼   ► last nine months until they were trapped in an uncanny valley between one of the world's

00:54:43 ◼   ► most famous actresses and another actress whom it declines to name who sounds just like

00:54:48 ◼   ► her. For me it's the slipped on a series of banana peels thing where it's just like whoa

00:54:55 ◼   ► I didn't mean to do any of this like it's all just so happened to occur like it's just

00:55:00 ◼   ► so stupid and juvenile it's like you're supposed to be in charge of this massive company just

00:55:05 ◼   ► act like an adult. And if you hired somebody else to have that person come out and make

00:55:11 ◼   ► a statement and it all goes away or it gets better at least. Like I'm sorry like to me

00:55:17 ◼   ► look the idea of like we're protecting this person's privacy that doesn't hold water with

00:55:22 ◼   ► no that feels like the kind of thing you would say when you're trying to protect the fact

00:55:25 ◼   ► that nobody exists. Like what is the like what what's the issue here like voice actors

00:55:34 ◼   ► all the time they're accredited well you can't credit this one what's the what's the concern

00:55:38 ◼   ► around this like I don't I don't understand what that concern is. Yeah we know who did

00:55:42 ◼   ► the original Siri voice like you know come on. To me that it just feels like we're trying

00:55:47 ◼   ► to hide this. I mean look I don't know what scholar Janssen's move is going to be I don't

00:55:52 ◼   ► know if she's going to try and file a lawsuit if she does and if she's successful to do

00:55:57 ◼   ► so I think she has the ability to do it. Oh yeah. And maybe we'll find out the answer

00:56:01 ◼   ► but it's going to be a long way in the future and maybe people won't care about it anymore

00:56:04 ◼   ► but I think she's done a great job here of kind of exposing them I think done very well

00:56:10 ◼   ► to be honest I think she's she's kind of crushed it but it just it just disappoints me it disappoints

00:56:16 ◼   ► me and then I think about what are we four weeks away from from Sam Altman maybe appearing

00:56:22 ◼   ► at WWDC. Hey everyone I made a new voice it's called Tim. It's called Tom. It's called Tom.

00:56:37 ◼   ► I always wonder what happens at Microsoft when these sorts of things happen right Microsoft

00:56:44 ◼   ► has put a lot of money in this company a lot of their co-pilot stuff which we're talking

00:56:48 ◼   ► about next powered by this during the coup they offered Sam Altman a job and he turned

00:56:56 ◼   ► it down to go back to the company that tried it I'll see him like I want to know everything

00:57:00 ◼   ► about that relationship but you know someone at Microsoft like when this news broke they

00:57:04 ◼   ► just they just slammed their head into their desk. Yeah I think they kind of expect it

00:57:10 ◼   ► from them now though like I don't know how much you've you to follow this but like Microsoft

00:57:16 ◼   ► is buying up more AI companies like they're essentially building within Microsoft a team

00:57:21 ◼   ► where they can just plug them in yeah get rid of open AI as they should they should

00:57:26 ◼   ► own their technology but like I think open AI has brought them to the dance right and

00:57:31 ◼   ► like now they're building the infrastructure that they need to leave it's like you know

00:57:37 ◼   ► after all this it's like yes I expect that every time something like this happens such

00:57:41 ◼   ► as just like I don't want to have to deal with this right like you're you're like we're

00:57:46 ◼   ► trying to do a thing over here and you know like he was at build like the next day after

00:57:51 ◼   ► this and it's just like you're just you're embarrassing me but it at least seems like

00:57:55 ◼   ► he is making the moves that he would need to try and get rid of them and move over to

00:58:02 ◼   ► whatever there is but I think that it would be particularly awkward for Apple because

00:58:07 ◼   ► if they're going if they are actually going to announce a brand new partnerships like

00:58:12 ◼   ► oh so you decided still a brand new like that's going to be the question where it's like with

00:58:18 ◼   ► Microsoft it's a little bit like well we're already in bed together like you know the

00:58:22 ◼   ► the the it'd be weird it's going to be I think more complicated to be like no we made the

00:58:26 ◼   ► decision now that we're going to do this so I'm very intrigued to see how that's going

00:58:30 ◼   ► to go.

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01:00:49 ◼   ► So there was a Microsoft Surface event earlier this week followed by the Microsoft Build

01:00:56 ◼   ► conference I believe.

01:00:58 ◼   ► And of course at the Surface event the big news is the debut of these brand new AI PCs

01:01:04 ◼   ► that Microsoft is not calling AI PCs, they're calling Co-Pilot Plus PCs.

01:01:11 ◼   ► Which is an interesting name to say the least.

01:01:14 ◼   ► Co-Pilot Plus...

01:01:15 ◼   ► Are you guys familiar with the fact that they actually already have things that are called

01:01:19 ◼   ► Co-Pilot PCs?

01:01:21 ◼   ► No but I'm not surprised.

01:01:23 ◼   ► It's a different thing.

01:01:25 ◼   ► Oh my god that is so Microsoft.

01:01:27 ◼   ► Isn't that great?

01:01:28 ◼   ► It's so Microsoft.

01:01:30 ◼   ► I really like the Co-Pilot branding.

01:01:33 ◼   ► Me too I think it's great branding.

01:01:34 ◼   ► But you got to deploy it in a more reasonable fashion at Microsoft.

01:01:39 ◼   ► So this Co-Pilot Plus PCs obviously we know Microsoft is going all in on AI and they've

01:01:47 ◼   ► been doing that for the past two years really.

01:01:52 ◼   ► But what's different about these new computers, so there's a new Surface laptop and there's

01:01:56 ◼   ► a new Surface Pro 11.

01:01:59 ◼   ► Is that...

01:02:00 ◼   ► They skipped the 10 right?

01:02:02 ◼   ► Well they're actually not numbering them.

01:02:04 ◼   ► They're not numbering it.

01:02:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:06 ◼   ► The 10 is business only I believe.

01:02:07 ◼   ► The Surface Pro 10 is just for business customers.

01:02:10 ◼   ► They didn't number this one.

01:02:13 ◼   ► The thing about these computers is that they're running on a brand new ARM based architecture.

01:02:20 ◼   ► So this is the long rumored Qualcomm made Snapdragon X processors.

01:02:26 ◼   ► They're going to power these Windows machines.

01:02:28 ◼   ► And specifically there's two versions of the Snapdragon X.

01:02:32 ◼   ► There's the Plus and the Elite.

01:02:35 ◼   ► Now what's really remarkable here is that we can get to the details about like how Microsoft

01:02:44 ◼   ► is doing this transition from the X86 architecture to an ARM based architecture.

01:02:52 ◼   ► They tried years ago.

01:02:53 ◼   ► It didn't exactly work out in terms of developer adoption, app compatibility and a bunch of

01:02:58 ◼   ► other issues.

01:02:59 ◼   ► It seems like this may be the time they actually do it.

01:03:03 ◼   ► But what I find fascinating is the comparisons to the M series chips to Apple silicon and

01:03:10 ◼   ► specifically Microsoft saying we are beating the MacBook Air with these computers.

01:03:18 ◼   ► That I find interesting because from a certain perspective in terms of just raw AI numbers

01:03:27 ◼   ► it may even be true if you consider how these processors perform and all the different large

01:03:34 ◼   ► language models that Microsoft has embedded within Windows at this point.

01:03:38 ◼   ► I believe there's about 40 different models that Microsoft has in Windows.

01:03:44 ◼   ► But I still struggle to see these computers as having the kind of performance of a MacBook

01:03:53 ◼   ► Air in terms of running cool and being thin and that's not even to mention of course the

01:03:59 ◼   ► Surface Pro compared to the incredible thinness of an iPad Pro.

01:04:04 ◼   ► But they're using different metrics to compare these copilot Plus PCs to MacBook Airs.

01:04:10 ◼   ► And so I wanted to ask you guys first of all, silly name aside, do you find this interesting

01:04:18 ◼   ► as an idea of an AI first computer?

01:04:22 ◼   ► Well, I mean...

01:04:25 ◼   ► Or do you find it silly?

01:04:26 ◼   ► No, I don't find it silly.

01:04:28 ◼   ► I mean, to me it's just like, well, I do believe I've come around to the idea that like, look,

01:04:35 ◼   ► love it or hate it.

01:04:36 ◼   ► This is the next phase of computing now.

01:04:39 ◼   ► Like we're in it.

01:04:40 ◼   ► And so like the idea of a AI focused PC is funny to me because it's just like, I do think

01:04:46 ◼   ► that within five years that's just a PC.

01:04:49 ◼   ► It's new now.

01:04:50 ◼   ► It's like saying if the smartphone was invented now, oh, this is a camera phone.

01:04:56 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, well...

01:04:57 ◼   ► Or just like, what do you guys think about this new touch focused phone?

01:05:03 ◼   ► You know, like I genuinely think we're just in it now.

01:05:07 ◼   ► The thing that I find the most interesting, some of the stuff they're putting in Windows

01:05:12 ◼   ► is interesting to me, but the thing I find the most interesting is how hard they are

01:05:18 ◼   ► bringing it to Apple.

01:05:20 ◼   ► I like this.

01:05:23 ◼   ► I like this.

01:05:24 ◼   ► Yes, do it.

01:05:26 ◼   ► Just go for it.

01:05:27 ◼   ► And like they're saying, I mean, I listened to the Verge cast and Tom Warren was saying

01:05:31 ◼   ► that like he was in a briefing with Microsoft for multiple hours where they would just,

01:05:37 ◼   ► they had a MacBook Air and the Surface laptop next to each other and they were just doing

01:05:41 ◼   ► benchmark after benchmark.

01:05:43 ◼   ► Like they are not just saying that this is more powerful in AI.

01:05:47 ◼   ► They're saying it is more powerful in everything.

01:05:50 ◼   ► They're saying it has longer battery life.

01:05:52 ◼   ► Like they're just saying like all in all, this machine is better.

01:05:55 ◼   ► Now they probably have fans in them.

01:05:58 ◼   ► Right.

01:05:59 ◼   ► You sound about the coolness thing.

01:06:00 ◼   ► It's like, okay, like a lot of people are bringing this up.

01:06:01 ◼   ► Like I think John Cooper wrote about it too.

01:06:04 ◼   ► I don't know if that matters.

01:06:05 ◼   ► Like I don't, you know, like, okay, like it does, you know, whatever.

01:06:09 ◼   ► But like it's probably more powerful than a MacBook Pro then.

01:06:13 ◼   ► Right.

01:06:14 ◼   ► Like, you know, it's just like, whatever.

01:06:19 ◼   ► To me, the thing that is interesting here is that they are building computers that look

01:06:22 ◼   ► compelling and they are putting these features into their operating system and then they're

01:06:27 ◼   ► saying this is better than Apple's laptops.

01:06:29 ◼   ► And I'm just like, all right, like this is it.

01:06:32 ◼   ► I like this from Microsoft.

01:06:33 ◼   ► Let's see what they got.

01:06:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:35 ◼   ► Are you guys familiar with where these chips came from?

01:06:38 ◼   ► Yes, I am.

01:06:40 ◼   ► Okay.

01:06:41 ◼   ► So this is, they're Qualcomm chips, but a while back Qualcomm bought a company founded

01:06:47 ◼   ► by a bunch of people who left Apple who worked on Apple Silicon.

01:06:51 ◼   ► Yep.

01:06:52 ◼   ► It's a company called Nuvia.

01:06:53 ◼   ► Nuvia.

01:06:54 ◼   ► Interesting.

01:06:55 ◼   ► And Qualcomm just said, we'll give you whatever you need, make us the chips.

01:07:00 ◼   ► And these are the chips.

01:07:01 ◼   ► And they did.

01:07:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:03 ◼   ► And this is a pretty remarkable chip.

01:07:04 ◼   ► In terms of like for AI, they're saying like 40 trillion operations per second.

01:07:12 ◼   ► Like this Snapdragon X architecture, like it is a serious thing.

01:07:16 ◼   ► And the fact that Microsoft is saying we're not just comparable to a MacBook Air.

01:07:20 ◼   ► We are superior in terms of performance to the M3.

01:07:25 ◼   ► Like that is a serious claim.

01:07:28 ◼   ► And they're saying that these computers, like they're claiming, like I was just checking

01:07:32 ◼   ► the Surface Pro specs page.

01:07:34 ◼   ► They're claiming 14 hours of battery life for a tablet, which, you know, different kind

01:07:41 ◼   ► of tablet in many regards.

01:07:43 ◼   ► But yeah, it's like this is a serious effort in terms of bringing an R base architecture

01:07:50 ◼   ► to Windows and now will it work this time around?

01:07:55 ◼   ► I think it will.

01:07:57 ◼   ► The question remains, what is the app story?

01:08:00 ◼   ► Like that is their issue of like how many apps are actually going to come?

01:08:04 ◼   ► And they announced a bunch of important apps like Photoshop and others are like they're

01:08:08 ◼   ► bringing, they're going to make native versions.

01:08:11 ◼   ► Isn't Fantastical also coming to Windows because of this?

01:08:14 ◼   ► It was on a slide and then there was a tweet or a thread post by somebody who said it was

01:08:20 ◼   ► coming, but I don't, I would not be surprised.

01:08:22 ◼   ► I mean, it makes sense for them to do that.

01:08:26 ◼   ► To your point, Mike, and to yours, Frederick, really, the reason this is so interesting

01:08:30 ◼   ► to me is that this is Windows on ARM in a way we've never seen it before.

01:08:36 ◼   ► And the software and the hardware both have held it back, but in particular the software,

01:08:40 ◼   ► if you go back, whatever it was, eight years or whatever, 10 years to the Surface RT, that

01:08:45 ◼   ► thing failed because the hardware was underpowered, but also because there was no software for

01:08:49 ◼   ► it.

01:08:50 ◼   ► And Microsoft has taken their sweet, sweet time to get Windows ready to get their emulation

01:08:55 ◼   ► ready.

01:08:56 ◼   ► And in that time, now they have this chip.

01:08:59 ◼   ► So now things are coming together and either John or Ben said this on dithering, I forget

01:09:05 ◼   ► which one, but this feels like a turning point in the decline of x86 and Intel is going to

01:09:14 ◼   ► have with Lunar Lake, a next gen processor.

01:09:17 ◼   ► They're going to have, you know, co-pilot plus PC stuff ready, but ARM is where these

01:09:24 ◼   ► things are happening.

01:09:26 ◼   ► And if these devices and the software do all really work as well as Microsoft says they

01:09:33 ◼   ► do, this very well could be the turning point where, hey, x86, not on the Mac anymore.

01:09:42 ◼   ► It's going to be a long time before it's not a Windows anywhere.

01:09:44 ◼   ► Like it's a very long transition, but this feels like a very big step towards that future.

01:09:50 ◼   ► I genuinely think the Intel thing is just there because Microsoft are being nice to

01:09:54 ◼   ► them.

01:09:55 ◼   ► I think so too.

01:09:57 ◼   ► I think x86 is over.

01:10:00 ◼   ► They can also still use them.

01:10:02 ◼   ► Like Steven said, it's going to be a long transition and there's probably many reasons

01:10:07 ◼   ► for Microsoft to remain partners with Intel for lower spec'd computers.

01:10:15 ◼   ► The Windows world is so different from the Apple one.

01:10:18 ◼   ► It makes sense, like they're the kind of company that is built to have multiple partners.

01:10:24 ◼   ► But yeah, this is the question is how good is their emulation layer?

01:10:29 ◼   ► Because if it's still not good enough, this won't work.

01:10:33 ◼   ► Right.

01:10:34 ◼   ► So to give you like I posted on threads about the gaming angle, for example, which is obviously

01:10:39 ◼   ► an interesting one because those are some of the along with 3D applications and like

01:10:43 ◼   ► professional applications, like 3D graphics is one of the most intensive things that you

01:10:47 ◼   ► can ask a system on a chip in this case.

01:10:50 ◼   ► Like this is not a keep in mind, this is not a system with a discrete GPU.

01:10:55 ◼   ► This is just like Apple Silicon.

01:10:57 ◼   ► It's like a single system on a chip that has a GPU inside of it.

01:11:00 ◼   ► The Mac Pro wins in the end.

01:11:05 ◼   ► This is not these are not computers with a discrete dedicated GPU.

01:11:10 ◼   ► It's just one Snapdragon X system on a chip.

01:11:15 ◼   ► Now for the emulation layer, so I think Microsoft is telling a really compelling story, much,

01:11:22 ◼   ► much more compelling than whatever Apple did last year with that Mac OS compatibility thing

01:11:29 ◼   ► for gaming that nobody ever really took advantage of.

01:11:34 ◼   ► So they're saying that they have a thousand games that are already sort of have already

01:11:39 ◼   ► been tested and are playable or basically just complete like sort of like Steam's proton

01:11:46 ◼   ► thing like they have passed the compatibility checks.

01:11:50 ◼   ► So a thousand games and mostly you could expect these games without any optimizations to run

01:11:57 ◼   ► at 720p or 1080p 30 frames per second.

01:12:00 ◼   ► For example, they showed Baldur's Gate 3, which is a game from last year, like a massive

01:12:06 ◼   ► game from last year running, I believe, somewhere in between 720p and 1080p at 30 frames per

01:12:11 ◼   ► second. Now, you may say, well, that's not impressive. But, again, this is a system on

01:12:16 ◼   ► a chip without a discrete GPU using an emulation layer and running that game at 1080p 30 frames

01:12:24 ◼   ► per second in a tablet? It is pretty remarkable for a first take.

01:12:30 ◼   ► That's pretty good. That's pretty good.

01:12:31 ◼   ► It's pretty good. It's pretty good. And you can imagine that, like, I have a feeling that

01:12:37 ◼   ► Microsoft and Qualcomm are absolutely going to take Apple to task here when it comes to

01:12:41 ◼   ► gaming, because, like, they can tell and they can offer a much more compelling alternative

01:12:48 ◼   ► than whatever Apple has in store for the App Store and Apple Arcade, because the signs

01:12:55 ◼   ► are pretty much in the open that Microsoft, they're going to do a gaming handheld and

01:13:03 ◼   ► it's going to be... Most likely at this point, it's going to be based on this chip on the

01:13:10 ◼   ► Snapdragon X series. Now, you can imagine that sort of Xbox handheld that has full on compatibility

01:13:17 ◼   ► with games on Windows with this kind of battery life. And also, I will point you to the...

01:13:25 ◼   ► President of Xbox, Sarah Bond, I want to say?

01:13:30 ◼   ► Yep.

01:13:31 ◼   ► Saying that they have assembled a dedicated Xbox game preservation team for future backward

01:13:38 ◼   ► compatibility. Now, why is that?

01:13:43 ◼   ► I can think of something.

01:13:44 ◼   ► I mean, they're also saying, like, as well, like, that the next Xbox that they're working

01:13:48 ◼   ► on is going to be the most powerful games console ever made by a long margin. And yeah,

01:13:55 ◼   ► maybe this is part of how they get to that, right? Like this kind of technology. I mean,

01:13:58 ◼   ► we've seen it. We've seen what happens when you go to arm, like your power and your amount

01:14:03 ◼   ► of power per watt and that kind of stuff. It just goes through the roof and that could

01:14:07 ◼   ► be a big leap for this kind of system too.

01:14:10 ◼   ► Yeah. So the final thing I will say is that over the past few years, and rightfully so

01:14:15 ◼   ► in our community, because this is what we do for a living, we've been focused on the

01:14:18 ◼   ► incredible improvements of the Apple Silicon and M series. But I just wanted to point out

01:14:25 ◼   ► that, like, it's not like Qualcomm has been just resting on their laurels and doing nothing.

01:14:31 ◼   ► You can get some pretty remarkable Android phones, like especially the Snapdragon 8 Gen

01:14:37 ◼   ► 3. That's just the amount of chip and the Adreno-based GPU that they have. You can play

01:14:43 ◼   ► some Android games and do some emulation in 4K with some really remarkable performance.

01:14:48 ◼   ► Now, of course, the app ecosystem is different between iOS and Android. But if I were Apple,

01:14:55 ◼   ► you know, competition is good in this case. And Qualcomm proving that they can work with

01:14:59 ◼   ► Microsoft to bring Snapdragon to a desktop operating system with a gaming angle. It's

01:15:04 ◼   ► very remarkable. And yeah, it's competition is great.

01:15:09 ◼   ► Over on Ars Technica, Andrew Cunningham has an article about Prism, which is Microsoft's

01:15:16 ◼   ► emulation. You know, we have Rosetta 2 on Apple Silicon Macs. And Andrew writes that

01:15:23 ◼   ► with a upcoming Windows 11 update, that those translated apps will run between 10 and 20%

01:15:31 ◼   ► faster just with the Windows update. And that Prism's performance is, quote, similar to

01:15:36 ◼   ► Rosetta's, although obviously this depends on the speed of the hardware you're running

01:15:40 ◼   ► it on. And that's another benefit of these ARM chips. They are so fast. If there is any

01:15:46 ◼   ► penalty for emulation, and it's not really like emulation is not really the word. It's

01:15:51 ◼   ► translation. It's translating, not emulating. Then you make up the difference in the speed.

01:15:58 ◼   ► And they've got a bunch of apps like you mentioned Adobe, but Dropbox and Chrome are native on

01:16:03 ◼   ► ARM and Windows. This is happening. It does not answer the questions about dedicated GPUs.

01:16:11 ◼   ► It doesn't really answer the question of like, you know, the the bajillion x86 PCs under

01:16:17 ◼   ► people's work desks, like it's going to take a long time. But I'm telling you, I think

01:16:22 ◼   ► we're gonna look back in a year or two. Like this, this is the time when the when the tide

01:16:27 ◼   ► really started shifting for Windows on ARM. The other thing I want to talk to you all

01:16:32 ◼   ► about is Microsoft recall. So this is a feature that was internally called AI Explorer. But

01:16:40 ◼   ► it effectively looks at everything you're doing on your computer, and puts it on a timeline.

01:16:49 ◼   ► So you can go back and see what's going on. If this sounds familiar, there was rewind

01:16:55 ◼   ► AI, which was this Mac application that was going to do this. And that company has pivoted.

01:17:02 ◼   ► But this is built into the OS into Windows. It will. There's some privacy stuff, you can

01:17:09 ◼   ► say, you know, don't pay attention to these websites, you can pause or stop it. It's local

01:17:13 ◼   ► and on device. But you can say, Hey, you know, I saw an email with this in it, or I was on

01:17:19 ◼   ► a web page with that on it. Can you find it for me? And it scrolls back in time. I love

01:17:24 ◼   ► the interface for it. I think the interface is really fun. Very reminiscent of time machine.

01:17:29 ◼   ► Yeah, it is. And except like sideways instead of back into the screen.

01:17:35 ◼   ► It's more colorful. And it's got my it looks like modern Microsoft. Like it looks great.

01:17:39 ◼   ► But like, yeah.

01:17:40 ◼   ► But this is this is a mean, it's a wild feature. I would imagine that there'll be a lot of

01:17:46 ◼   ► people that turn this off, or a lot of companies that turn it off for their employees. But

01:17:51 ◼   ► I'm curious, like, for us, is this something that you know, if this came to Mac OS, is

01:17:55 ◼   ► this something that we would be interested in?

01:17:59 ◼   ► This is the dream for me to have like the idea of total digital recall, without having

01:18:06 ◼   ► to bookmark or like, explicitly save things. And I get it, I get it, the privacy concerns

01:18:14 ◼   ► and everything. I'm sure if Apple ever did something similar, they would have better

01:18:18 ◼   ► settings for things that you may want to exclude from your recall. But like, for me, this is

01:18:25 ◼   ► exactly the perfect use of AI and a large language model. Like, see everything I do.

01:18:31 ◼   ► I choose to let you see what I do. And then let me search using natural language things

01:18:37 ◼   ► that I remember having seen on my computer, just not having saved them specifically anywhere.

01:18:43 ◼   ► This is something that I really, really, really hope Apple does, not just on a Mac, like anywhere,

01:18:50 ◼   ► like everywhere. I want to have this on all the devices that I use.

01:18:57 ◼   ► We should note it does only work on some of these newer Co-Pilot Plus PCs with the Snapdragon

01:19:03 ◼   ► X Elite chip. So this is a subset of new machines. The minimum storage space, Microsoft says

01:19:11 ◼   ► hard drive space, but you know, solid storage space. The minimum required for the system

01:19:16 ◼   ► is 256 gigs, but 50 gigs of available space, you know, for for this feature to work. And

01:19:23 ◼   ► its default allocation is 25 gigs, which they say is about three months worth of snapshots,

01:19:29 ◼   ► but you can change in the settings, how much storage allocation you you allow for this.

01:19:34 ◼   ► So I'm interested to see how this is how this takes off if this is used in the world if

01:19:40 ◼   ► people think this is creepy. We just don't know yet. And I think I think for me, like

01:19:46 ◼   ► I am interested in something like this, but boy, I'd want to make sure that it's local

01:19:51 ◼   ► because something like this, you know, basically screen reading everything you do. That's,

01:19:58 ◼   ► you know, that's weird. It's not a very common thing at this point.

01:20:02 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm like struggling with it myself. I keep going backwards and forwards

01:20:09 ◼   ► of like, I actually would really like to utility for what Federico's mentioning, like, I don't

01:20:13 ◼   ► need to remember anything like it just remembers everything for me. Like, I love that. But

01:20:17 ◼   ► there is also just this like, do I want the computer logging everything, like everything,

01:20:23 ◼   ► every, you know, like, do I want that? I'm not sure that I do. And like, it's complicated.

01:20:31 ◼   ► I think this is the thing I'm gonna have to like, come to terms with if something like

01:20:35 ◼   ► this comes to Mac OS. It's just like a strange, it's just like a strange thing to think about

01:20:42 ◼   ► that like, there is another thing that's watching every website I go to every app that I open

01:20:48 ◼   ► every conversation I have, like if I have a an iMessage conversation with someone and

01:20:54 ◼   ► delete the iMessage thread, like, it's still gonna, we're going back to that thing we were

01:20:58 ◼   ► talking about earlier, right? Like the photos thing, like it's just reappearing. Like there

01:21:04 ◼   ► is just this like another memory. It gets weird. It's just like a, it's a thing that

01:21:08 ◼   ► we haven't had before other than web browsing history. And we all got used to web browsing

01:21:14 ◼   ► history. So I'm sure we'd all get used to this. But yeah, I think this is something that

01:21:18 ◼   ► I would eventually much prefer the utility of than a creepy thing. But there is also

01:21:23 ◼   ► just like, security concerns, right? Like, real ones that we'd have to seriously consider

01:21:31 ◼   ► that if someone got access to your computer, they have everything, everything now. Complicated.

01:21:39 ◼   ► Yeah, it's new realm, right? It's just like a new thing we'd have to get used to. And

01:21:44 ◼   ► yeah, it makes me uncomfortable. But also, I like the idea of it. So like, if this came

01:21:51 ◼   ► to Mac OS, I would turn it on. But I would still be a bit like, sometimes when I'm thinking

01:21:56 ◼   ► about the feature, so. Sure. Man, WWBC, a couple weeks away. Who knows? They're not going to

01:22:05 ◼   ► get to this level. They're not going to do this. They're not going to do this. I'm still

01:22:09 ◼   ► excited about WWBC. I want to see what they've got. But I'm starting to lower my expectations

01:22:15 ◼   ► because everything is rising. And they're not going to be at this level. They're not.

01:22:20 ◼   ► Because Microsoft started doing all this stuff ages ago. If you want to find links to the

01:22:26 ◼   ► stories we spoke about, they're in your podcast player. They're also in the information super

01:22:32 ◼   ► highway exit that is relay.fm/connected/503. Pull over. Check out those links. I got in

01:22:40 ◼   ► trouble halfway through that sentence. I didn't know. No, I liked it. It was all really good.

01:22:44 ◼   ► Like that's how we should say like, every website is an exit on the information super

01:22:49 ◼   ► highway. And you've always got to turn on to that exit when you want to go to a website.

01:22:53 ◼   ► That's great. That's right. If you want to find Federico, turn down Mac stories lane

01:22:58 ◼   ► over at a macstories.net. Lots of great stories over there. I'm sure they're gearing up for

01:23:03 ◼   ► WWBC. You can find Mike on a bunch of other shows here on relay FM and you can swing by

01:23:10 ◼   ► Cortex brand on your way home and get something for the kids. Kids need notebooks and pens,

01:23:15 ◼   ► right? Yeah. On the way home. Yeah. Pick up something for the kids. And I like 512pixels.net,

01:23:20 ◼   ► which is Steven's home because it actually sounds like an address. It does. 512 pixels.

01:23:25 ◼   ► Yes. Yes. You can, uh, you can stop by, you know, get a glass of tea, read about Emacs.

01:23:31 ◼   ► Visit for a while, you know? Come on y'all. Visit for a while. That's one of my favorite

01:23:35 ◼   ► Southern phrases. Like someone visits. Like we're just going to visit. I like that. It's

01:23:41 ◼   ► cute. It's going to visit. If the, uh, the information super highways is not your thing

01:23:48 ◼   ► and maybe you want to go down the social media expressway, you can do that. We're on Mastodon

01:23:56 ◼   ► as Vitichi, iMike and ISMH 86 as a, as our own threads. It's all the same usernames everywhere

01:24:04 ◼   ► now. It's all unified. Very, very exciting. You guys sound excited. Some of us have done

01:24:12 ◼   ► that a while ago. Some of us didn't have that problem, but yes, it's very exciting that

01:24:17 ◼   ► we're all unified now. You know, you're thinking about unification. What do you think about

01:24:22 ◼   ► the three of us having just one social media account? What do you think? We just share

01:24:28 ◼   ► it? Y'all can log in as connected. No, but what, will you want us all sending all of

01:24:32 ◼   ► our thoughts in the connected account? No, like we all just, we'll just use it. What

01:24:36 ◼   ► would our name be? Sti, Sti-Mike-o? Sti-Mike-o. Yeah, he sounds like a fine gentleman. Didn't

01:24:46 ◼   ► we do this before? Probably. We've definitely done this before, but yeah, I think that would

01:24:52 ◼   ► be a good idea. I think the three of us should have one account and we just post everything

01:24:56 ◼   ► from it. So like one day it would be like, look at this thing I wrote about a Mac pad

01:25:00 ◼   ► and then next day we're like, look at this podcast that I did. And the next day it would

01:25:04 ◼   ► be like, look at this calendar that I'm selling, you know, that could be us. You have to look

01:25:08 ◼   ► at that photo in the discord. Yeah, I mean, that could be us. Like that would be us, like

01:25:12 ◼   ► final form, you know, where Mike and I got face melded to each other. Yeah. On top of

01:25:19 ◼   ► Federico's buddy. Yeah. Who doesn't want to be there. Thank you to our sponsors this week.

01:25:27 ◼   ► They are NetSuite, Ecamm, 1Password and Fitbod. You can learn more about them, the show notes

01:25:32 ◼   ► as well. Thank you to our members who support us directly. You can get connected pro it's

01:25:37 ◼   ► just seven bucks a month. That's a longer ad free version of the show that we do each

01:25:42 ◼   ► and every week with extra topics. We pick titles at the end. Lots of fun things happen

01:25:47 ◼   ► there, but relay members also get access to our members only discord, a newsletter and

01:25:52 ◼   ► a couple of members only podcast we do each month. And in the month of May and June, we're

01:25:57 ◼   ► doing our annual specials that all members get. So if you support connected, then you

01:26:03 ◼   ► get, you know, the, the bonus episode of Mac power users and vice versa. All the shows,

01:26:09 ◼   ► we just recorded ours today and it will be out tomorrow on May 23rd for members that's

01:26:12 ◼   ► in the crossover feed. So go check that out. I think, uh, I think, I think people enjoy

01:26:17 ◼   ► what we did. Tell them we talked about Titanic. Mike's favorite movie, Federico's favorite

01:26:22 ◼   ► movie. Mike's favorite movie of Federico's Mike's favorite movie. He saw this week. Yeah.

01:26:31 ◼   ► Yes. We talked about Titanic. Uh, it sinks spoiler alert. Oh, why would you do that?

01:26:38 ◼   ► So many people were just like, well, they didn't know. They didn't know. It happened

01:26:42 ◼   ► a hundred and 15 years ago. Okay. That's it. We'll be back next week until then say goodbye.

01:26:48 ◼   ► I do this cheerio. Bye y'all.

01:26:51 ◼   ► [ Silence ]