502: Overcome by the Thinness


00:00:00   [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:00:03   Hello, and welcome to Connected, episode 502.

00:00:12   It's made possible this week by our sponsors, JAM, Squarespace,

00:00:16   and Tailscale.

00:00:17   My name is Stephen Hackett, and I'm joined by Mr. Federico Vittucci.

00:00:21   Hello, Stephen.

00:00:22   How are you?

00:00:22   I'm good.

00:00:23   How are you?

00:00:24   I'm doing fantastic.

00:00:25   I have an iPad Pro that arrived today.

00:00:28   Been playing with it.

00:00:29   It's great.

00:00:30   We can talk about it.

00:00:31   And I also wanted to point out that in 10 episodes,

00:00:34   it'll be Connected 512.

00:00:36   I know.

00:00:37   Yeah.

00:00:38   It's pretty special.

00:00:38   We got a taste of that this week, because even though they

00:00:42   started after us, Upgrade passed us some time ago in episode numbers.

00:00:47   Because Jason used to never go on vacation, I think.

00:00:51   And we take the week off between Christmas and New Year's,

00:00:54   and they don't.

00:00:55   So Upgrade episode 512 was on Monday.

00:00:59   And don't tell Mike, but apparently Jason

00:01:02   thought he needed both Connected hosts to replace Mike, which--

00:01:05   It's the only way we can be taller than him if we combine together.

00:01:10   Like you sitting on my shoulders.

00:01:12   OK.

00:01:13   I was getting ready to ask, who's the bass?

00:01:15   You know, who's--

00:01:15   I'm the bass.

00:01:16   I'm the bass.

00:01:17   You're above.

00:01:18   We can find a really long trench coat or something.

00:01:20   Perfect.

00:01:22   Yeah.

00:01:22   Yeah.

00:01:23   Maybe at WWDC, which is in a month, by the way,

00:01:27   maybe we just stroll into Apple Park that way.

00:01:29   You think security would notice?

00:01:31   I don't think so.

00:01:32   I don't think so.

00:01:32   Maybe the dogs, though.

00:01:33   The dogs maybe will notice us.

00:01:35   Maybe so.

00:01:36   You try to fold us into a golf cart, and it's like, ah, you know.

00:01:38   That's really uncomfortable for me as the bass.

00:01:45   But I got a long way to fall, you know?

00:01:49   We're 12 feet tall together.

00:01:52   Yeah, so I just listened to upgrade 512.

00:01:56   That was a really good conversation.

00:01:57   And I also recommend the pro show because you guys talk about iPods.

00:02:01   And I thought that was funny.

00:02:03   Yeah.

00:02:04   The week of new iPods.

00:02:05   It's like, hey, you know what we need to do for members?

00:02:08   iPods.

00:02:09   iPods.

00:02:11   So yes.

00:02:11   Yeah, go check it out.

00:02:12   It's so much fun.

00:02:13   I think you feel the same way.

00:02:15   You and I don't get to talk with Jason about tech very often,

00:02:18   like in public.

00:02:19   And so it's always fun to get to do that.

00:02:21   Yes.

00:02:22   I agree.

00:02:23   Several people have asked me about my social media username problem,

00:02:27   where I'm ismh86 in some places.

00:02:29   Are you still ismh86?

00:02:32   Still am.

00:02:33   OK.

00:02:33   So I don't have a new username yet.

00:02:35   I'm still kind of looking at some things.

00:02:38   Have you asked Mary for advice?

00:02:42   No.

00:02:43   I think she would say I don't care.

00:02:46   Interesting.

00:02:47   Interesting.

00:02:49   Or maybe she has good advice.

00:02:51   I should ask her.

00:02:51   She has good advice on many things.

00:02:53   Many, many.

00:02:54   Almost basically everything.

00:02:55   Yeah, so I mean, she probably has opinions about usernames.

00:02:58   I should ask her.

00:03:00   And so I haven't done it yet because I haven't settled on it.

00:03:03   But I was looking at Mastodon because I realized,

00:03:06   I don't know how you change your username in Mastodon.

00:03:08   I figure you just go to your profile and change it.

00:03:11   You can't.

00:03:12   You cannot change your username on Mastodon.

00:03:15   You have to create a new account and then migrate your followers

00:03:19   and content over to it.

00:03:21   Nice, perfect.

00:03:22   Fediverse.

00:03:23   No notes.

00:03:24   What are you doing, Mastodon?

00:03:29   Hey, you don't argue with Federation.

00:03:32   It is what it is.

00:03:33   It's true.

00:03:35   You want to be part of the Fediverse?

00:03:36   You cannot change your username.

00:03:38   I know.

00:03:38   It's, you know, it is what it is.

00:03:44   I wanted to point out some really important feedback

00:03:48   regarding the Teach Italian segment from listener

00:03:51   Johan Malmstrom.

00:03:54   Johan mentioned connected on Mastodon saying,

00:03:57   "Is the Italiano I've picked up on connected enough

00:04:00   to make it around Rome?

00:04:01   Well, it's enough to buy a bus ticket, at least thanks

00:04:04   to an old lady and Grazie mille Bittici."

00:04:07   So I'm just doing my best.

00:04:10   I'm providing a service for people

00:04:11   who need to buy bus tickets in Rome.

00:04:14   And Johan also helpfully posted a photo evidence

00:04:17   after this post, just standing by one of the bus stops

00:04:24   for the bus company in Rome called Attac,

00:04:27   as you can see from the photo.

00:04:29   Yeah, this is not my neighborhood.

00:04:32   Also, Johan is wearing a lovely rectives T-shirt.

00:04:36   And yeah, you're welcome, Johan.

00:04:38   I'm pleased that you were able to ask the old lady

00:04:41   for some basic advice on how to buy a bus ticket.

00:04:45   Really, the old lady was doing the heavy lifting, not us.

00:04:49   Yeah, would have asked me.

00:04:50   I would have told you that most people don't buy bus tickets

00:04:53   in Rome, Italy, but it's not what you're supposed to do.

00:04:56   So you've done a good thing in actually buying a bus ticket.

00:05:01   What do most people do?

00:05:03   Steal the ride.

00:05:06   Oh, no.

00:05:07   Yeah, yeah, it's bad.

00:05:08   It's public transport in Rome, much to be improved

00:05:12   in terms of security and actually checking

00:05:17   whether people have tickets or not.

00:05:18   Yeah, yeah, it leaves much to be desired, is what I'll say.

00:05:24   Today marks Global Accessibility Awareness Day,

00:05:31   and as has been their tradition now, I guess,

00:05:35   for several years, Apple has made some announcements

00:05:38   of accessibility features coming later this year.

00:05:42   So this will be similarly part of the iOS 18, Mac OS, whatever,

00:05:48   that cycle.

00:05:51   So there's a newsroom article, and then over on Mac Stories,

00:05:53   y'all broke it down.

00:05:54   There's a lot of stuff here.

00:05:56   We're not going to have time to go through it all in depth.

00:05:59   But the one that jumped out at me is vehicle motion cues.

00:06:06   Why?

00:06:07   Because I get motion sick really badly in the car.

00:06:11   I can use my phone if I'm riding, but not for very long.

00:06:14   And they are adding animated dots

00:06:19   to the screen that represent changes in vehicle motion,

00:06:24   and that helps your brain--

00:06:27   because motion sickness is basically what you see

00:06:29   and what you feel don't line up.

00:06:31   And the answer is, I guess I'm going to throw up.

00:06:34   And these dots help your brain realize--

00:06:38   help you see the motion that you feel in your body.

00:06:42   It can be set automatically show up,

00:06:45   or it can be turned on and off in Control Center.

00:06:47   That is one I'm very excited about trying personally.

00:06:50   Have you ever stopped thinking about how the human body,

00:06:54   in so many different scenarios, the default solution is, well,

00:06:58   I guess I'm just going to throw up.

00:07:00   It's true.

00:07:01   It's a baseline approach to dealing with things.

00:07:04   I guess so.

00:07:05   Yeah.

00:07:05   You got to speak in front of a room of people.

00:07:09   Yeah, I mean, why?

00:07:10   Why is that?

00:07:11   Like, they should have thought of something else.

00:07:14   Why can't this get cold?

00:07:17   Yeah, I mean, literally anything else in terms of feedback.

00:07:20   Why did it have to be throwing up?

00:07:22   I know.

00:07:23   I know.

00:07:25   Anyway, yes, this is a really cool feature.

00:07:29   And this is going to be built right into CarPlay.

00:07:33   I think also.

00:07:35   Yeah, CarPlay has a lot of stuff going on.

00:07:37   So they're going to bring some of the more standard stuff

00:07:40   like voice control and color filters over.

00:07:44   They're also going to bring a sound recognition, which

00:07:46   is part of the Apple ecosystem now.

00:07:49   Like, you can set a HomePod up to send you a notification

00:07:51   if it hears a smoke alarm.

00:07:53   But now in CarPlay, you can have a notification saying,

00:07:57   like, oh, your phone hears a siren or a car horn.

00:08:01   So if you can't hear it, it can alert you that, hey,

00:08:04   maybe you're getting pulled over or maybe there's

00:08:06   an ambulance behind you.

00:08:07   Be aware.

00:08:09   Super cool stuff in CarPlay.

00:08:11   Yeah.

00:08:12   I wanted to mention the eye tracking, which

00:08:14   I think is really interesting.

00:08:16   So this has been framed as obviously

00:08:19   part of the new accessibility features coming

00:08:22   to iPhone and iPad.

00:08:24   And it seems like using a combination of the built-in

00:08:28   front-facing camera and some on-device,

00:08:32   the same machine learning--

00:08:34   I'm sure WWC will say AI.

00:08:37   By using a combination of the camera and a calibration

00:08:39   process based on a machine learning model,

00:08:42   you will be able to control the iOS and iPad OS

00:08:45   UI using your eyes.

00:08:46   So using eye tracking, very similar to VisionOS

00:08:49   as a concept, but doesn't require, of course,

00:08:53   wearing a headset.

00:08:54   And it seems like you will be able to also use

00:08:57   the dual control, which allows you to basically look

00:09:02   at something and hold your gaze for a second

00:09:05   to select that item.

00:09:07   So imagine you're looking at a button,

00:09:09   you look at it for a second, and the button is clicked.

00:09:12   I think that is a really incredible feature

00:09:15   if this actually works well.

00:09:16   And it really takes controlling iPhones and iPads

00:09:20   for people with disabilities to the next level.

00:09:23   Just eye tracking built into a tablet or a phone

00:09:27   that works in tandem with the UI, that sounds really wild.

00:09:32   It's awesome.

00:09:33   The last one Al mentioned is listening for atypical speech.

00:09:38   So people with some situations like ALS,

00:09:43   or maybe they've had a stroke or cerebral palsy,

00:09:45   something like that, they may have different speech patterns.

00:09:49   And Apple has done work for its speech recognition software

00:09:55   across the ecosystem to be tuned more for those sorts of people.

00:10:01   And I see that in my own household.

00:10:04   I've got a child who stutters, and sometimes the HomePod

00:10:08   kind of gives up while waiting for our son

00:10:11   to finish speaking.

00:10:12   And stuttering is not called out in the press,

00:10:15   really, specifically.

00:10:17   But it is going to be something that I look

00:10:19   for when this stuff ships.

00:10:20   But I love how broad Apple is getting with this.

00:10:24   They're thinking about people with all sorts of situations

00:10:26   that they're in.

00:10:28   And it's all really cool and all coming later this year.

00:10:31   There's even some stuff for Vision OS in here

00:10:33   we don't have time to talk about.

00:10:34   But lots of great stuff.

00:10:36   Yeah, and I believe that atypical speech is something

00:10:39   that a friend of the show, Stephen Aquino,

00:10:41   has mentioned multiple times over the years.

00:10:44   People with all kinds of ranges of speech

00:10:48   should be able to interact with assistants like Siri,

00:10:51   or dictation for that matter.

00:10:53   And so, yeah, I'm curious to see if Apple will also

00:10:56   accommodate for stuttering with this one.

00:10:58   And I also wanted to mention before we move on,

00:11:01   in the same range of speech-related features,

00:11:03   these vocal shortcuts functionality

00:11:06   that basically will allow you to--

00:11:08   and the best way that I can understand it,

00:11:11   John, OTJ, got some details behind the scenes.

00:11:13   But my understanding is that this feature

00:11:17   will allow you to effectively set up

00:11:19   a custom phrase for a shortcut without having

00:11:22   to say, "Hey, assistant."

00:11:26   And the OS will continuously listen for that phrase.

00:11:30   So imagine recording a phrase that says "Apple Frames,"

00:11:34   and I can just say that, and my iPad or iPhone

00:11:37   will always be listening for that phrase.

00:11:39   Now, obviously, you want to be--

00:11:41   we'll need to test this.

00:11:43   And it's not like you can set up all kinds of phrases

00:11:46   and suddenly your iPad is always going off running a shortcut.

00:11:49   But pretty cool regardless.

00:11:51   And yeah, I think Apple is doing some really interesting things

00:11:54   this year.

00:11:56   This episode of Connected is brought to you by Jam.

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00:12:09   or console logs or user ID.

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00:12:14   get to go to that person who made the ticket

00:12:16   and hunt down the right information.

00:12:18   You'll go back and forth for weeks in the ticket comments

00:12:21   trying to find out if it was the local storage

00:12:23   API or a response from the network request, cookies

00:12:27   at the time, the time zone they're in.

00:12:29   It just ends up being really frustrating trying

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00:12:50   Jam automatically includes a video of the bug, console logs,

00:12:53   and network requests, all the information you need to debug,

00:12:56   like even what their internet speed was at the time.

00:12:59   It even automatically lists out the steps to reproduce the bug.

00:13:04   And it's easy to get your teammates on board

00:13:06   because Jam is a Chrome extension.

00:13:08   So when they see a bug, they just click a button.

00:13:11   And right away, it creates a ticket in your issue tracker.

00:13:14   So it saves time for them.

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00:13:20   If you're a web developer and you'd rather spend your time

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00:13:26   send your team over to jam.dev.

00:13:28   That's J-A-M, jam.dev.

00:13:32   Or click the link in the show notes.

00:13:34   Our thanks to Jam for their support of the show and RelayFM.

00:13:39   You and I have both had our hands on iPad Pros now.

00:13:43   I went to my Apple Store this morning where they opened.

00:13:47   OK.

00:13:48   Quite a few people there, actually.

00:13:50   Interesting, really.

00:13:51   Way more--

00:13:52   Just to check out the iPads.

00:13:53   Just check out the iPads.

00:13:54   Way more than Vision Pro Day.

00:13:56   Well.

00:13:57   Noticeably more people.

00:13:59   Is that a surprise?

00:14:00   No.

00:14:01   Did you see the report that--

00:14:03   I think it was on Bloomberg--

00:14:06   that some Apple Stores in the US are only selling

00:14:09   like two units per week on the Vision Pro?

00:14:13   I believe it.

00:14:14   Like, I know in my store, they had three demo tables.

00:14:18   And now it's just down to one.

00:14:19   Like, just back in the corner of the store with nothing on it.

00:14:24   Yeah.

00:14:24   But anyway, so you went there, quite a few people

00:14:27   checking out the iPads.

00:14:28   Quite a few people.

00:14:29   They had a bunch of iPad Pros check out,

00:14:31   a bunch of accessories.

00:14:33   I will say, I mean, they're both definitely thinner.

00:14:35   That 13 inch is hard to believe.

00:14:39   Like, the greater surface area, the thinness.

00:14:43   I'm not a 13 inch iPad person.

00:14:45   But if I was, I'd be very excited about this thing.

00:14:48   Yeah.

00:14:49   And I am once again, because of the thinness

00:14:52   and because of the weight.

00:14:53   And it's not just the thinness and the weight

00:14:56   in isolation.

00:14:58   It's the two things combined.

00:14:59   Because I really do think that the thinness and the 13 inch

00:15:04   surface and how weight is distributed,

00:15:07   that iPad feels--

00:15:09   even though it's not--

00:15:10   but it feels lighter somehow than the 11.

00:15:13   Like, I don't know.

00:15:14   Maybe it's just my brain being easily fooled.

00:15:17   I have no idea.

00:15:18   But it does feel like so much easier to hold them before.

00:15:24   And yeah, and I thought, well, now it's

00:15:27   the time to go back to the 13, especially because it's

00:15:30   going to be more visually balanced as a Mac pad, which

00:15:35   you know is the first thing I did, actually.

00:15:38   Oh, I know.

00:15:39   I got the picture.

00:15:40   You got the picture.

00:15:41   You saw the picture.

00:15:42   And I'm actually working on something else.

00:15:44   We'll see if I can get it to work.

00:15:47   But yeah, did you try the Pencil Pro, Steven?

00:15:51   I did not get a chance to try the Pencil Pro.

00:15:54   I don't know.

00:15:55   They had a couple--

00:15:56   not all the models on the floor had a pencil on them,

00:16:00   I guess, because pencils are easy to steal.

00:16:03   But I did get to spend some time with the new Magic keyboard

00:16:09   and trackpad.

00:16:10   And it really seems like a great improvement over the old one,

00:16:14   which I liked.

00:16:15   The old one, I think, was pretty good too.

00:16:18   Definitely lighter.

00:16:19   The aluminum on the inside, it feels like a little MacBook.

00:16:23   It's kind of weird that it's still rubbery on the outside.

00:16:26   And I do wonder about the longevity of that.

00:16:30   Is that rubber just glued on the bottom of the aluminum?

00:16:32   Apple had a MacBook once that was like that.

00:16:34   And basically, the bottom's all peeled off.

00:16:38   Hopefully, they got that solved now.

00:16:39   They did.

00:16:40   There was a MacBook like that?

00:16:41   Really?

00:16:42   Yes.

00:16:43   It was the white MacBook in 2008.

00:16:49   It was the one that had rounded corners,

00:16:53   but it was still plastic.

00:16:54   Yeah, and so it peeled off.

00:16:56   A bunch of them peeled off, 2008, 2009 in that range.

00:17:00   So I'm not saying this is going to happen with this,

00:17:02   but it just kind of reminded me of that.

00:17:06   I will say, though, and there have been pictures of this online.

00:17:09   There's like three or four different designs of Apple Pencil

00:17:11   Pro boxes, and they all have their own artwork on them.

00:17:15   And that's really fun.

00:17:16   I think that's cool.

00:17:18   I got the blue one that it says Pro,

00:17:22   and it's all fancy lettering.

00:17:25   Two more questions for you.

00:17:26   Did you see the nanotexture display?

00:17:29   I did not see the nanotexture display.

00:17:31   I'm not sure there was one out.

00:17:33   I'm in a smaller store than--

00:17:35   I'm in a flagship store.

00:17:37   But also, there were a lot of people around the iPad tables,

00:17:39   and it was pretty crowded.

00:17:42   So I don't know if there was one out there or not,

00:17:44   to be honest with you.

00:17:46   I'll have to try again.

00:17:48   And my other question is, did you walk out

00:17:49   the Apple Store with an iPad?

00:17:51   Yeah.

00:17:52   [LAUGHTER]

00:17:54   Silver 11 inch with the keyboard.

00:17:58   [LAUGHTER]

00:18:01   OK.

00:18:03   Care to explain?

00:18:05   I just-- I was overcome by the thinness.

00:18:08   [LAUGHTER]

00:18:10   OK.

00:18:11   OK.

00:18:11   Were you planning on it?

00:18:14   Not really.

00:18:14   I mean, it was in the back of my mind.

00:18:17   So you woke up this morning, you're like,

00:18:18   I'm going to go to the Apple Store.

00:18:20   But did you have the thought somewhere in your brain of,

00:18:23   like, hey, maybe I'll buy one?

00:18:24   Yeah, I did.

00:18:26   OK.

00:18:26   I do really like the Mini.

00:18:28   I don't think this would replace the Mini for me in some use

00:18:31   cases.

00:18:32   But there are times where I'm in meetings for stuff,

00:18:36   non-work related, that I don't want to take my MacBook Pro.

00:18:40   And the iPad's a pretty good fit.

00:18:42   And with the keyboard, that'd be nice.

00:18:43   So we're going to see.

00:18:44   I'm not coming into keeping it.

00:18:46   But I did the 11 inch silver.

00:18:49   The space black's still not dark enough for me.

00:18:51   So I did silver with the white keyboard.

00:18:55   So we'll see if that was a mistake.

00:18:57   We'll see how this thing looks.

00:18:58   But it's transferring stuff for my iPad Mini right now.

00:19:03   Nice, nice.

00:19:04   Do you think this could replace your iPad?

00:19:08   Not just for meetings, like you just mentioned,

00:19:11   but as a media tablet.

00:19:13   I think it could.

00:19:14   The thing that I like about the iPad Mini--

00:19:18   I wrote about this in the blog forever ago.

00:19:21   With the peak design stuff, kind of built like a bike pad,

00:19:26   where I can put my iPad Mini and mount it

00:19:28   on the handlebars on my road bike

00:19:31   when it's on my stationary trainer.

00:19:34   And I don't think an 11 would fit.

00:19:36   I was in another place in my garage

00:19:38   that the 11 inch can sit.

00:19:40   But it was kind of nice watching something in the garage,

00:19:43   riding the stationary bike with the Mini.

00:19:47   I mean, I'm going to go all in on this for the next 10 days

00:19:50   or so and see how it goes.

00:19:51   But I also don't want to manage two iPads.

00:19:55   I don't want to do that.

00:19:56   So I'm going to give it a shot and see how it goes.

00:20:00   All right.

00:20:01   Very well.

00:20:02   I was not expecting this.

00:20:04   Yeah, you were.

00:20:04   Part of you was.

00:20:06   Well, kind of.

00:20:07   But not immediately on day one.

00:20:11   Like I thought maybe eventually--

00:20:12   I was like, well, yeah, you know, but just talk about it.

00:20:15   So here we go.

00:20:17   I will say the bezels are too big.

00:20:20   They are unchanged from before, right?

00:20:24   To the point where, yeah, I would have liked to see something

00:20:27   like a little thinner.

00:20:28   But I'm sure there's like some science there in terms of like

00:20:32   maybe this is the ideal size for people with fat fingers

00:20:35   or whatever.

00:20:36   They want to make sure that they're grabbing the display.

00:20:39   And to be fair, like I do have pretty big hands.

00:20:42   And yeah, I could imagine like the thinner bezel

00:20:46   like being a problem even for me.

00:20:47   Even though like looking at it, it would be nice.

00:20:50   And they want the bezel to be uniform all the way around.

00:20:55   And I'd imagine the size of the camera and the Face ID sensor

00:21:00   and stuff help dictate that.

00:21:03   As is holding it, I totally get that as well.

00:21:06   But just seeing them in the store--

00:21:08   and I knew they were the same size.

00:21:10   We talked about it last week.

00:21:12   Because then you look at like the iPhone 15 Pro and Pro Max.

00:21:15   It's like, gosh, right to the edge is pretty sweet.

00:21:18   So maybe that'll come in the future.

00:21:22   OK, we need to talk about your article.

00:21:25   Yeah, but you want to talk about iPadOS.

00:21:28   I do.

00:21:30   I do.

00:21:31   So you wrote this piece.

00:21:32   It came out on Monday with the embargo.

00:21:38   It's titled-- I'm sure everyone has seen it by now--

00:21:40   Not an iPad Pro Review--

00:21:41   Why iPadOS Still Doesn't Get the Basics Right.

00:21:44   So can you talk a little bit maybe

00:21:45   about the background of this?

00:21:47   People can also check out Upgrade and App Stories

00:21:50   this week.

00:21:50   We're not going to spend our whole time recapping this.

00:21:53   But tell us a little bit about the background of this

00:21:56   and how it's been since Monday.

00:22:00   So the background is that I did not get an iPad Pro Review

00:22:06   unit in time to publish a story.

00:22:09   I was offered one eventually toward the end of last week.

00:22:13   And it would have been delivered on Monday.

00:22:15   And the embargo was on Monday evening.

00:22:17   And it just felt like an unworkable deadline.

00:22:22   It was an unworkable deadline.

00:22:24   Especially since I knew that certain folks have been testing

00:22:28   them since Tuesday or Wednesday.

00:22:32   And I was under the impression that that was also

00:22:35   going to be my case.

00:22:36   And I had a whole plan.

00:22:37   I canceled some travel plans for the weekend.

00:22:44   So that's why I was home alone.

00:22:46   Sylvia was in Milan.

00:22:48   We had a sponsor lined up.

00:22:50   Like, I was ready.

00:22:51   I had an entire plan for a story.

00:22:53   Like, I'm going to have this review.

00:22:54   And I'm going to have this three-section review.

00:22:59   I'm going to talk about the hardware.

00:23:00   I'm going to talk about my weird experiments for gaming

00:23:04   and the Mac pad.

00:23:05   And I'm going to talk about the software.

00:23:08   And then I did not get an iPad.

00:23:10   So when I was told that it would arrive on Monday,

00:23:12   I just figured, well, that's too late.

00:23:15   And what am I going to do there?

00:23:17   Like, get an iPad on Monday, and there's an embargo

00:23:19   like six or eight hours later.

00:23:22   And I'm not exactly the type who does unboxing videos.

00:23:26   I mean, more power to you if you're a creator

00:23:28   and you do that type of content.

00:23:30   That's not what I'm interested in.

00:23:31   And so I just declined the review unit.

00:23:34   And I said it's probably best if it goes to somebody else.

00:23:37   And so instead, I had to pivot.

00:23:40   And I figured, well, I have plenty of time

00:23:44   to write anyway.

00:23:45   We have a sponsor that I would prefer to keep somehow,

00:23:51   especially these days.

00:23:52   It's pretty rough out there in the ad market.

00:23:55   And so I don't exactly want to give up on a sponsor.

00:23:59   And I thought, well, what was the plan

00:24:04   for the original review, right?

00:24:06   It was the hardware, the experiments, and the software.

00:24:10   And obviously, the one thing I could still talk about

00:24:13   was the software.

00:24:14   And so I started thinking about the software,

00:24:17   and I was thinking, well, how can I frame it

00:24:21   in a way that is still interesting?

00:24:22   And this was literally, I was having these thoughts

00:24:27   coming back from London.

00:24:28   And in London, Mike and I were having these conversations

00:24:33   about like, oh, you know how people are gonna react

00:24:36   to these iPads.

00:24:37   There's gonna be the whole cycle again

00:24:39   of iPad Pro reviews and people saying it's an iPad,

00:24:43   but it's still an iPad.

00:24:44   And then I listened to Upgrade,

00:24:47   and Jason also mentioning the software limitations

00:24:50   of iPadOS.

00:24:51   And so I had the idea of, okay, I don't have an iPad,

00:24:55   which is unfortunate, but I can probably still

00:24:59   carve my own niche on Monday,

00:25:03   basically zag instead of zigging, if you will,

00:25:10   or in video game terms, using Nintendo's Blue Ocean strategy.

00:25:15   Like, what if, instead of talking about the iPad Pro,

00:25:20   I talked about the software?

00:25:22   And what if I did something that I wanna see

00:25:26   out in the world, which is a comprehensive list

00:25:29   of all the problems of iPadOS?

00:25:31   And then I came back home, I talked about it with Silvia.

00:25:33   She was like, hey, that sounds like something interesting

00:25:36   that you can do, and probably gonna be a popular story.

00:25:39   And so that was the background.

00:25:41   And so I got to work and I made my own list of problems

00:25:46   of like, okay, when I'm working on the iPad,

00:25:49   what are the issues?

00:25:50   What are the things that, after so many years,

00:25:53   I keep mentioning?

00:25:54   And maybe these problems that I've mentioned

00:25:56   in a bunch of places, like in this review,

00:25:58   in that other review in 2019,

00:26:00   and then in this article in 2021.

00:26:02   Like, if you're a reader, you shouldn't have to follow

00:26:05   through this trail of complaints scattered through a decade.

00:26:10   Like, that doesn't seem convenient.

00:26:13   I thought what would be convenient is a single article

00:26:17   that people can point to and say,

00:26:19   these are the issues of iPadOS

00:26:21   that we think should be fixed.

00:26:24   So that was the background, that was the approach.

00:26:27   And then I got to work.

00:26:28   And yeah, I was alone by myself with the dogs.

00:26:32   And so for three days, I walked the dogs twice a day,

00:26:37   and then I cooked myself some meals

00:26:43   so as to not starve to death.

00:26:45   (laughing)

00:26:46   And I just spent the rest of my time writing and editing.

00:26:51   It's a great piece.

00:26:52   You let me read a couple drafts of it over the weekend

00:26:55   as you were working.

00:26:57   Definitely, I think you met the goal

00:26:59   of being like a comprehensive place

00:27:01   to talk about where iPadOS falls down.

00:27:05   And again, people need to go read this article.

00:27:08   I said this on upgrade, and I'll say it to you directly.

00:27:11   I don't think anyone thinks deeper

00:27:13   about the iPad and iPadOS than you do.

00:27:16   I think including a lot of people

00:27:17   who work in a certain round building.

00:27:19   And you have gone through and talked about all sorts

00:27:23   of areas where this comes apart.

00:27:29   What you don't say in the article

00:27:31   and what you're not saying now

00:27:32   is that the iPad should be the Mac.

00:27:36   No.

00:27:37   You still want them to be different,

00:27:39   but some people have either seen the article

00:27:43   or saw the headline or heard us talk about it.

00:27:45   Right, right.

00:27:47   And have jumped to that.

00:27:48   Yeah, so this is, and this is,

00:27:51   the reason this happens is that people,

00:27:54   when they're looking at this issue,

00:27:57   they either want things to be black and white.

00:28:01   And I guess I'm saying that there are so many shades

00:28:05   of gray in the middle.

00:28:06   What I think I'm saying, what I think Jason is saying,

00:28:11   and a bunch of other people are saying

00:28:12   is that in an ideal scenario,

00:28:15   it should be iPadOS running on the iPad.

00:28:19   I would take iPads running iPadOS forever.

00:28:23   I felt the need to actually write this sentence

00:28:25   in the article because maybe it wasn't clear enough.

00:28:28   In an ideal scenario, iPadOS is the operating system

00:28:33   built for these convertible devices

00:28:36   that can be tablets with touch interactions,

00:28:39   but also be snapped into a case,

00:28:40   and they become this laptop-like devices.

00:28:43   That's the ideal scenario.

00:28:44   However, this ideal scenario is not happening.

00:28:47   Like, that ideal does not meet reality,

00:28:51   because in reality, we have iPadOS

00:28:54   that is still largely based on iOS.

00:28:58   I was reminded of this by Steve Tranton Smith.

00:29:01   When you install the simulator with Xcode on a Mac,

00:29:05   the iPadOS is literally contained in the iOS file.

00:29:11   So it's still very much based on iOS,

00:29:14   and iPadOS is, to an extent, like a marketing name

00:29:18   for the exclusive features that the iPad has

00:29:21   compared to an iPhone.

00:29:24   But in reality, as I was saying,

00:29:27   I don't think iPadOS is improving,

00:29:30   or has improved over the past nine years,

00:29:33   even if you don't...

00:29:34   So the iPad is 14 years old, right?

00:29:36   But let's not say that the iPad is 14 years old.

00:29:38   Let's just start counting since the first iPad Pro came out,

00:29:42   because maybe that's the second era of the iPad.

00:29:44   So 2015, 2024, that's nine years.

00:29:47   Do we think that in nine years,

00:29:50   iOS and then iPadOS for these computers have...

00:29:55   Do we think that the OS has advanced quickly enough

00:29:59   over the past nine years?

00:30:01   It has improved.

00:30:02   And this is the thing that Jason and I

00:30:04   we've been saying, it has improved, right?

00:30:06   We have USB support, like USB mass storage support.

00:30:12   We have Stage Manager, which, for better or worse,

00:30:16   it lets you use up to four windows at once.

00:30:19   There's better support for keyboard shortcuts.

00:30:20   There's better accessories.

00:30:22   I'm not saying that it hasn't improved at all.

00:30:25   Like it's not like you buy an iPad Pro in 2024,

00:30:28   and it's still at iOS 9 level of functionalities.

00:30:32   - Yeah. - But...

00:30:33   - The weird app picker on the side.

00:30:35   - Right.

00:30:36   I mean, that was actually pretty good, but yeah.

00:30:38   What I'm saying is, is that, is iPadOS 17 enough?

00:30:44   And I don't think it is,

00:30:46   especially when you spend all that money on an iPad Pro,

00:30:50   a computer that is advertised as a professional machine.

00:30:54   I mean, I literally, when I was working on the story,

00:30:57   I literally saved some of the marketing taglines

00:31:01   from apple.com, and they...

00:31:04   I mean, besides the unbelievably thin stuff,

00:31:09   they do mention things like powering

00:31:11   all of your Pro workflows, or...

00:31:15   They sell this as a computer.

00:31:19   Yeah, like, "iPadOS is designed to let you power

00:31:22   through advanced workflows and do all the things you love

00:31:25   with ease and simplicity."

00:31:26   Like, they're not saying, "We're selling you this tablet

00:31:30   if you are a video maker, an artist, a YouTuber,

00:31:34   or a photographer."

00:31:37   Like, they're not saying that.

00:31:38   They're saying, "This is a computer that lets you,

00:31:41   that powers all of your Pro workflows."

00:31:43   And so my thought was,

00:31:48   is the iPadOS that we have today,

00:31:50   has it changed enough over the past nine years

00:31:54   to power all kinds of Pro workflows?

00:31:57   And I don't think it has.

00:31:59   All of this...

00:32:01   And I thought this was gonna be quite easy

00:32:04   to convey as a message.

00:32:06   Arguing for iPadOS to get better

00:32:10   does not equal, "Oh, just put MacOS on the iPad."

00:32:14   And you may say, "But, Tichy, you created a MacPad."

00:32:16   And yes, I did,

00:32:18   because it was like a Hail Mary move.

00:32:22   Like, okay, if I wanna have an iPad

00:32:27   with the same degree of functionality

00:32:32   as a Mac, maybe this is a way to do it.

00:32:35   But like I said, ideally, it should be iPadOS,

00:32:39   and the iPadOS team looking at MacOS and saying,

00:32:42   "Okay, what is it that people are able to do on a Mac?"

00:32:46   And we don't necessarily need to copy the OS.

00:32:48   We don't necessarily need to carbon copy feature by feature

00:32:52   exactly how they work on the Mac.

00:32:55   But what is it, the goal behind the feature

00:32:58   that people wanna achieve?

00:33:00   And can we bring that to iPadOS?

00:33:02   I think that's a pretty easy concept to understand.

00:33:05   But some people use it as a...

00:33:07   They have this shortcut, right,

00:33:10   to just say, "Oh, these people,

00:33:11   they just wanna see the Mac turning into an iPad."

00:33:14   Then no, like, that's all we're saying.

00:33:19   If they did that, then what's the point?

00:33:24   There are tons and tons of people who love the iPad

00:33:29   for exactly what it is, right?

00:33:32   And we've talked about this before.

00:33:36   Apple, with the iPad more than anything else, I feel like,

00:33:39   and their whole product family,

00:33:42   they have to, or like I said, don't have to,

00:33:45   but we would like them to cater

00:33:48   to many, many different groups, right?

00:33:51   The people who are just gonna use one app at a time

00:33:53   like they always have on a base iPad,

00:33:56   they're gonna keep it for 10 years.

00:33:58   That's a huge number of iPad users, right?

00:34:01   Who are faithful Apple customers,

00:34:04   so Apple should serve them.

00:34:06   But then you also have people who want to do more with it,

00:34:10   who do bump up into the upper limits.

00:34:12   And I think Stage Manager is like the perfect example

00:34:16   of Apple trying to split the difference, right?

00:34:18   It's not on by default.

00:34:20   You gotta go into Control Center.

00:34:21   It's this totally different mode

00:34:22   that you have to understand how it works,

00:34:24   and it's really kind of weird in places.

00:34:27   But if you don't want it or know that it exists,

00:34:30   you will probably never encounter it either.

00:34:33   And that's hard.

00:34:34   I don't think you, I don't think me,

00:34:36   like Jason, we are not saying that's not hard.

00:34:39   What we are saying is Apple should do a better job at it.

00:34:42   And how do you preserve the simplicity

00:34:45   of this operating system,

00:34:47   but add complexity and add power for those who want it?

00:34:52   And I think the, just put macOS on it.

00:34:56   And I get it.

00:34:57   Jason wrote that piece before the event,

00:35:00   and I linked to it.

00:35:02   And I'd say something along the lines of

00:35:03   what if the future of the iPad Pro was with us all along?

00:35:06   Like that is a route they could go,

00:35:10   but it's a route that,

00:35:12   while it may be sort of emotionally interesting

00:35:16   for those of us who are Mac-centric,

00:35:19   it's probably not the right answer for the product

00:35:21   or for Apple.

00:35:22   And it probably just introduces confusion

00:35:27   into what is already a kind of a messy situation

00:35:30   between the iPad and the Mac.

00:35:32   And I don't have anyone who's trying to solve that

00:35:36   in Cupertino, but I think to your point,

00:35:39   I wonder if they're kind of afraid of trying to solve it.

00:35:44   I wonder if they're looking at the iPad and thinking,

00:35:46   well, gosh, maybe we just don't need to care

00:35:49   to those people, and eventually they'll just buy Macs

00:35:51   and be quiet, or they'll just realize like,

00:35:54   okay, they're like the upper 1%.

00:35:57   And again, we don't want them to do that,

00:35:59   but I have this like growing feeling

00:36:01   that that's kind of what they've done,

00:36:03   that they've decided that for folks like you and Jason

00:36:06   who wanna do more than Apple's just like,

00:36:08   well, it's kind of up to them.

00:36:09   We're not gonna give them what they want or need.

00:36:12   - So there's a couple of things I wanna say.

00:36:16   I think it's funny, first of all,

00:36:17   that over the past few days, I mean, obviously,

00:36:22   I'm incredibly happy and humbled

00:36:24   with the sort of popularity of the story.

00:36:28   I can tell you that it's been way more popular

00:36:33   than any traditional iPad Pro review I've ever done.

00:36:37   - Wow.

00:36:38   - Yeah, I mean, like it's been incredible.

00:36:41   Like it's been on the front page of Reddit, Hacker News,

00:36:45   which may not like those websites,

00:36:47   but they sure drive a lot of traffic.

00:36:49   - Yes, they do.

00:36:50   - And that's a great thing

00:36:52   for a small publication like ours.

00:36:56   But anyway, I think it's funny

00:36:59   that a comment I've seen over the past few days is,

00:37:02   oh, these people, whereby these people,

00:37:04   they refer to me, Jason, Steve Trotton Smith, maybe others,

00:37:09   they think they know better than Apple.

00:37:11   Fair criticism, but the same people years ago

00:37:17   when the whole MacBook drama was unfolding,

00:37:25   I could have said, oh, these folks,

00:37:26   they think they know better than Apple.

00:37:29   When they said, oh, Apple has lost its way with the Mac,

00:37:33   the keyboard is bad, these computers are bad,

00:37:36   the touch bar is bad.

00:37:38   And so I think it's funny that when it's not about the Mac,

00:37:42   it's other people who know better than Apple,

00:37:46   but when it's about the Mac,

00:37:48   they do know better than Apple, and that's fine.

00:37:51   So I think the consistency there is fascinating.

00:37:55   And I also take issue with a couple of quotes

00:37:59   from Greg Joswiak and John Turness

00:38:02   on this Fast Company interview.

00:38:04   The first one is a Joswiak quote,

00:38:08   basically saying that there's room for both an iPad and a Mac

00:38:14   in Apple's vision for personal computing.

00:38:16   Joswiak saying, "The fact is that the majority

00:38:19   of Mac customers have an iPad, and they use them both,

00:38:22   and a large proportion of iPad customers have a Mac,

00:38:25   or some of them have Windows PCs."

00:38:27   The second part of the sentence,

00:38:30   "And a large portion of iPad customers have a Mac."

00:38:33   What's funny there is that, yeah,

00:38:35   I'm sure they do have a Mac, but what's unsaid here

00:38:39   is that a large portion of iPad customers need to have a Mac

00:38:43   if they wanna perform certain functionalities,

00:38:45   if they wanna do certain things,

00:38:47   because an iPad doesn't let them do it.

00:38:49   An iPad by itself, like so many features,

00:38:51   are just not supported on the iPad.

00:38:53   So yeah, I'm sure they have a Mac,

00:38:55   but maybe parentheses need to have a Mac.

00:38:59   That's an important clarification.

00:39:01   And the other is a Turness answer,

00:39:05   sort of trying to retcon, in a way, the meaning of pro.

00:39:09   But Turness also pushes back on the notion

00:39:11   that the iPad Pro is less than pro.

00:39:13   A term, he says, that isn't defined by the Mac.

00:39:16   There's a funny perception thing he says.

00:39:18   Maybe it's Mac people with their notion

00:39:20   of what professional is.

00:39:22   You saw what Procreate team has done

00:39:24   with the Apple Pencil Pro.

00:39:25   There is no more professional drawing application

00:39:27   in the world than Procreate.

00:39:28   I mean, they're the lifeblood of artists.

00:39:30   Sure, I mean, Procreate is incredible.

00:39:32   The Apple Pencil Pro is incredible.

00:39:34   And I've seen artists do incredible work on the iPad Pro.

00:39:38   But this is not, like, when did the Pro in iPad Pro

00:39:43   became an exclusionary market?

00:39:46   I'm not sure, because it was sold as a pro device.

00:39:49   And it's still advertised, if I'm not mistaken.

00:39:51   Like, you go to apple.com/iPadPro,

00:39:54   and it says all kinds of pro workflows,

00:39:57   apps for all kinds of amazing,

00:39:59   I'm quoting here from apple.com.

00:40:01   It's not saying, oh, well, not pro, like on the Mac,

00:40:04   but pro if you use Procreate.

00:40:06   Like, it's not saying that.

00:40:08   So I think it's convenient to say, oh, well,

00:40:10   I'm not sure where this discussion about pro comes from.

00:40:14   Must be the Mac people.

00:40:15   Like, no, you're selling a tablet that costs,

00:40:20   you can spec out to 3,000 euros,

00:40:24   and it literally, literally comes with a keyboard

00:40:27   that looks like a MacBook.

00:40:28   And it goes without saying, I think,

00:40:31   that you would expect some people to say,

00:40:32   hey, can I use this as a MacBook?

00:40:34   Like, I think it's pretty clear cut.

00:40:37   Yeah, I mean, I could have bought

00:40:40   most of a MacBook Air today.

00:40:41   Yeah.

00:40:44   Yeah, that Fast Company article rubbed me off

00:40:45   all sorts of the wrong way as well.

00:40:48   I think the retconning of pro in particular jumped out.

00:40:51   Jaws also says, well, we simplified the lineup

00:40:54   in the Apple Pencil story today.

00:40:55   Like, did you?

00:40:57   Did you though?

00:40:58   I don't know.

00:41:00   Jason Snell, obviously.

00:41:01   The Jason Snell from the chat saying,

00:41:04   this is also something that I wanted to mention.

00:41:06   Happens every time.

00:41:07   A whole lot of people who don't use or care about the iPad

00:41:11   think it's fine.

00:41:12   People who actually use it a lot think it needs work.

00:41:15   No one else, like someone who doesn't use an iPad

00:41:21   to tell you that your opinion about the iPad is wrong.

00:41:24   So yeah, this unfortunately has happened,

00:41:27   will continue to happen, and it is what it is.

00:41:30   But yeah, I mean, what I think is out there in the article,

00:41:34   so folks who have been sort of putting words in my mouth

00:41:38   for the past few days, like, no, go read the story.

00:41:41   My opinion is there.

00:41:42   That's what I think.

00:41:44   And I do, and all this to reiterate once again,

00:41:47   I love the iPad.

00:41:50   I just, I literally bought one.

00:41:53   That's what I'm gonna use.

00:41:55   I want it to get better.

00:41:56   I want it to keep running iPadOS.

00:41:58   In an ideal scenario, it should keep running iPadOS.

00:42:00   I don't want it to turn into a Mac.

00:42:04   I don't think I know better than Apple.

00:42:06   I, what else?

00:42:07   Like all these things that people have been saying.

00:42:09   I just think it needs some love.

00:42:11   That's all.

00:42:12   And it hasn't gotten enough love,

00:42:14   and I don't think there's anything bad in thinking that.

00:42:17   - Yeah, I mean, if you didn't care about the platform,

00:42:20   you wouldn't go out of your way to criticize it.

00:42:23   - I would be so much happier, you know,

00:42:26   if I was just a straight up MacBook Air person.

00:42:29   Like life would be easier.

00:42:31   So I inflicted this on myself, and I know that.

00:42:34   But you know, life's fun also, so.

00:42:38   - It's true.

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00:44:07   So Stephen, there was an OpenAI spring event,

00:44:11   spring update yesterday.

00:44:13   They had some major news to share.

00:44:15   They had a keynote that was,

00:44:19   like this video live streamed on YouTube,

00:44:21   and there was also like a sort of mini

00:44:23   in-person gathering event.

00:44:27   And there were some demos,

00:44:29   but the big news is the new model, ChatGPT 4.0,

00:44:34   which is now 4.0 in terms of like

00:44:36   the version number.

00:44:38   The O stands for Omni model, I think.

00:44:42   - That's a weird name, Iskim.

00:44:43   - It's a weird name.

00:44:45   But so I watched the event.

00:44:49   I saw the demos.

00:44:50   Did you see the event?

00:44:51   Did you watch it on YouTube?

00:44:52   - I did.

00:44:53   I watched it after the fact.

00:44:56   It's like what, 30 minutes or so, pretty short.

00:44:59   - Yeah.

00:45:00   - Kind of jumbled, I think, in terms of order things.

00:45:02   Like they're a new company.

00:45:03   They'll figure out keynotes.

00:45:05   - Yeah, so the idea being that,

00:45:07   so this new model, ChatGPT 4.0,

00:45:09   it's gonna be free for everyone,

00:45:13   but people who pay ChatGPT+ subscribers,

00:45:17   they're gonna have 5x the capacity,

00:45:19   whatever that's gonna mean.

00:45:21   There's a Mac app that is rolling out

00:45:25   that sort of lets you chat with ChatGPT,

00:45:29   but also lets you show your screen to ChatGPT,

00:45:34   which unlocks some incredible features

00:45:36   that we're gonna talk about.

00:45:37   And the big news, obviously, is that ChatGPT 4.0

00:45:41   is a multi-model AI that works across text,

00:45:46   voice input, and vision.

00:45:49   So you can mix and match all these things

00:45:53   when having a conversation with ChatGPT

00:45:55   to do all kinds of input,

00:45:58   like starting with a text query,

00:46:01   jumping to, "Hey, let me show you a photo or a selfie

00:46:05   or a screenshot to actually let me share my screen with you."

00:46:09   Like, I think, and I mean, we can talk about this,

00:46:13   I think it was a really fascinating demo,

00:46:18   and I think it was a great example

00:46:23   of why I think Apple must be concerned

00:46:28   in terms of, I don't wanna say losing the AI race,

00:46:33   as if to make it sound that Apple is behind

00:46:37   and they're doomed, but in the sense of like,

00:46:40   this is a really good demo that resonates with people.

00:46:44   Google has demos that resonate with people

00:46:46   and they run commercials that people understand.

00:46:50   And I think Apple, I understand,

00:46:52   having seen what ChatGPT can do now,

00:46:55   I understand why Apple must be thinking,

00:46:58   "Hey, we gotta make sure that Siri and our iPhones

00:47:02   can also impress people like this."

00:47:04   Because this is obviously something that is here to stay.

00:47:07   Yeah, I did not go into this event.

00:47:12   I mean, I'd kinda seen the rumors

00:47:13   and there was a report that they're doing a search engine

00:47:16   and that ended up not being true, at least for now.

00:47:20   But I left it really pretty blown away

00:47:24   by the multimodal idea,

00:47:25   that this thing is working across voice, text, and vision.

00:47:28   So it can see what's on your screen.

00:47:30   It can look through the cameras on your iPhone app.

00:47:33   It's still a large language model, right?

00:47:36   It still does kind of weird things.

00:47:40   I think some of the things they've done

00:47:42   to make it appear faster are a little problematic.

00:47:45   Like I don't love some of the filler talk.

00:47:47   We can talk about personality stuff too, I think we should.

00:47:52   But the headline here for me, at least,

00:47:55   is that OpenAI has built an assistant

00:47:59   in the same class as Siri and Google Assistant and others,

00:48:04   but in their own way through their own app,

00:48:06   not built into the operating system.

00:48:09   And that's really interesting to me

00:48:12   because up to this point, these things have been OS features,

00:48:14   not third-party app features,

00:48:17   but that has not stopped OpenAI from taking this on.

00:48:20   I think if this is the sort of thing

00:48:24   that we are going to see at WWDC,

00:48:28   and if it works as impressively, or at least close to

00:48:33   as impressive as chat GPG is these days,

00:48:36   I'm very excited about what Apple could do here.

00:48:40   Like the idea of combining multiple types of input, right?

00:48:45   And having maybe a Siri AI that has access

00:48:49   to the camera feed or to, quote unquote, real-time vision,

00:48:55   on your phone.

00:48:56   I don't know, after seeing this, like it's funny,

00:48:59   because after seeing this OpenAI event,

00:49:02   I went from being like, oh, I guess Apple will do AI stuff

00:49:07   in iOS 18, to being a lot more excited.

00:49:11   Because like when it was just a chat bot, I don't know,

00:49:14   I was like, yeah, I mean, it's cool,

00:49:15   but you're still going to a website

00:49:18   and you're chatting with an assistant on a website.

00:49:21   But this level of OS integration, much more closely tied

00:49:25   to your computer and your camera and your screen,

00:49:30   that I think is a lot more interesting.

00:49:32   Totally agree.

00:49:35   Can we talk about, there's just one moment in the demo

00:49:40   where the personal stage asks chat GPT for advice

00:49:45   on how to remain calm before an audience.

00:49:48   And--

00:49:51   The breathing.

00:49:52   The breathing.

00:49:53   And in this interaction, he breathes quickly and loudly,

00:49:58   and it hears it and tells him to slow down his breathing.

00:50:02   And that moment I was like, whoa, we, I don't know why,

00:50:07   that moment really got to me.

00:50:08   I was like, okay, this thing has a level of understanding

00:50:12   that is definitely beyond other tools like this

00:50:15   that we've seen.

00:50:16   It is kind of scary, like the idea of the model

00:50:20   being able to recognize human emotion and context,

00:50:24   like beyond the topic of the conversation,

00:50:28   that it is a little unsettling.

00:50:33   And to be fair, like, are we really going,

00:50:37   like it makes for an excellent demo.

00:50:39   I will say that.

00:50:40   It makes for an excellent demo.

00:50:42   But do you actually imagine a scenario

00:50:45   in which in real life you're about to step on a stage

00:50:48   to give a presentation, and you pull out your phone,

00:50:50   and you're like, hey, hey, assistant,

00:50:52   I need tips to calm down.

00:50:54   Or are you gonna be your partner?

00:50:56   Are you gonna call your partner or just breathe on your own?

00:51:00   Do you need an assistant to tell you, hey,

00:51:02   breathe slowly and let me listen to your breathing?

00:51:05   Is that a real life scenario?

00:51:08   - Yeah, I don't know.

00:51:09   - I don't know.

00:51:10   It makes for an excellent demo, and it is incredible

00:51:14   that the model can understand that.

00:51:16   And maybe I'm thinking too small,

00:51:18   but then you also gotta always keep in mind,

00:51:21   like, okay, but what are the real life applications of this?

00:51:24   And so, I don't know.

00:51:25   The vision stuff, for me, like being able to mix and match,

00:51:31   I think, multiple, like a command that I give you via voice

00:51:36   and something that you see in the same conversation

00:51:41   while retaining the context from one query to another,

00:51:46   that to me is the real step beyond.

00:51:48   And of course, being able to share your screen.

00:51:51   And when at one point one of the presenters went like,

00:51:53   okay, hold on, just let me share my screen with you.

00:51:57   Like that was the point where I was like,

00:51:59   yeah, that's like having,

00:52:02   because it really feels like having an assistant

00:52:04   right by your side, right?

00:52:05   Instead of like just that what we have today,

00:52:09   which is like, oh, let me stop, open Siri,

00:52:12   ask a question and then come back.

00:52:14   It's much more fluid and integrated.

00:52:16   - And that makes it more natural.

00:52:19   It makes it like just something you're speaking to,

00:52:22   which I think Apple has had that,

00:52:25   I think one reason Siri has been,

00:52:29   for better or for worse,

00:52:31   sort of infused with a sense of humor in Apple's eyes

00:52:34   or the personality that it has is to make it more human.

00:52:37   And with the chat, GBT voice stuff,

00:52:41   you can tell it how you want it to act,

00:52:44   how you want it to sound.

00:52:45   So you can make it more sarcastic or more emotive.

00:52:49   And that's wild.

00:52:51   'Cause again, this is something else

00:52:52   that has been controlled from the vendor side,

00:52:55   I think whoever designed it gave it its personality.

00:52:58   I'm using a lot of air quotes and all of this stuff.

00:53:00   But with this tool, you can say, actually, no,

00:53:03   I want you to be a bit more serious or a bit more funny.

00:53:06   Kind of like the personality slider

00:53:08   in Carrot Weather, I guess.

00:53:09   That's what I thought of when watching this.

00:53:11   - Yeah. - Yes.

00:53:12   - That is a feature I've always wanted for Siri itself.

00:53:15   Just let me tweak your personality with a slider.

00:53:18   I think it's like the carrot feature is so simple,

00:53:21   but so well done.

00:53:23   And to be fair, the chat, GBT demo yesterday,

00:53:27   the assistant was really, really eager

00:53:32   to talk to these people, maybe a little too much.

00:53:36   She, I say she, it's code.

00:53:41   But I don't know, it was maybe a little too emotive

00:53:45   and conversational to a degree.

00:53:48   - But I think part of that is to--

00:53:50   - But to impress people, yeah.

00:53:52   - It's to impress people, but it also,

00:53:54   those Humane.ai and Rabbit R1 videos,

00:53:58   where you ask it a thing and you're just waiting

00:54:00   for 30 seconds for it to get its answer,

00:54:04   they say this new model is much faster,

00:54:07   but I can't help but think also some of the talking

00:54:10   is to cover up the fact that it's doing stuff

00:54:12   in the background and waiting for information

00:54:14   to come back from the model.

00:54:16   - Yeah, yeah, because while it's saying,

00:54:18   oh, sure, let me look that up,

00:54:20   in the meantime, it's already processing.

00:54:21   - It's like stalling, you know?

00:54:24   - Yeah, yeah, you're like, oh, you're so kind,

00:54:26   but in the meantime, it's actually working

00:54:27   behind the scenes.

00:54:28   - Yeah.

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00:56:52   So the next day after opening,

00:56:57   OpenEye went on Monday, Google went on Tuesday.

00:57:00   I'm sure that wasn't an accident.

00:57:02   We had the first day of Google I/O

00:57:06   and there was so much announced,

00:57:09   like y'all, you just have to like keep scrolling

00:57:11   and scrolling in our Notion document,

00:57:13   like read all the notes I took on Google I/O.

00:57:15   But like previous I/Os,

00:57:18   it feels like it's sort of a scatter shot.

00:57:20   Like these are a bunch of things we're working on

00:57:22   and there's not necessarily a...

00:57:23   And some of them will ship.

00:57:25   And others will ship but be abandoned.

00:57:28   Like the vaporware percentage of Google I/O

00:57:32   way higher than I think OpenEye's spring update.

00:57:35   - I think at this point,

00:57:36   the vaporware percentage of Google I/O

00:57:38   is higher than a Microsoft concept video.

00:57:41   - But one day they're gonna make

00:57:45   that little foldable courier.

00:57:46   He's gonna be so sick.

00:57:48   - I still want that.

00:57:49   - Did you see the video of like the DJ person

00:57:51   like running around?

00:57:52   - I have been following the DJ person online for years.

00:57:57   - Really, I need to know, tell me everything.

00:57:59   Tell me everything.

00:58:00   - They started doing this.

00:58:03   I think it was a pandemic thing.

00:58:05   DJing in...

00:58:09   His name is Marc Reboulet, I think.

00:58:14   Yeah, they started doing this in the living room

00:58:17   in the bathrobe years ago.

00:58:19   And I don't know, the guy's so fun,

00:58:22   has that sort of energy.

00:58:24   He's really into the music.

00:58:25   And actually like pretty good DJ, I would also say.

00:58:29   And yeah, it's funny, especially reading the comments

00:58:33   on from people, people calling him king

00:58:37   and all kinds of things.

00:58:38   Yeah, and like you should also check out the videos

00:58:43   that he does in public.

00:58:44   He literally sort of sets up a keyboard

00:58:47   and a DJ interface and a monitor.

00:58:52   And he starts DJing in front of people in a bathrobe.

00:58:55   It's incredible, yeah.

00:58:57   Great energy, great vibe, yeah.

00:58:59   - Okay, I'll have a link to-

00:59:02   - Yes, thank you, BG.

00:59:03   People calling him Loop Daddy, yes.

00:59:05   - Okay, I was on a subreddit called r/loopdaddy.

00:59:08   I was like, I don't want to know what this is about.

00:59:11   - Loop Daddy, and he has Loop Daddy merch,

00:59:13   I think that you can buy.

00:59:15   - Okay, Loop Daddy.

00:59:17   I mean, I can't judge.

00:59:19   - Yeah, I mean, you're the Mac Daddy, he's the Loop Daddy.

00:59:21   And you're all daddies, so.

00:59:23   - Yeah, I'll put his YouTube channel

00:59:26   in the show notes for people to check out.

00:59:28   So lots of announcements, we're not gonna hit them all.

00:59:32   One though that jumped out at me early on was Gemini 1.5

00:59:37   is basically gonna be appearing in a bunch of places

00:59:39   like Google Docs, Sheets, Drive, Gmail.

00:59:42   It's all for paid Gemini subscribers.

00:59:45   But this has been Microsoft's move, right?

00:59:47   With Copilot.

00:59:48   - Exactly, yeah.

00:59:49   - It's all throughout their productivity software.

00:59:52   And Google is now doing that with Gemini.

00:59:55   Of course, Copilot is built on OpenAI.

00:59:58   Gemini from Google built on their own technology.

01:00:02   This is all very confusing since Microsoft

01:00:03   doesn't own the technology powering their stuff.

01:00:07   But Gemini 1.5 is gonna be showing up in more places for you

01:00:11   if you're a paid subscriber,

01:00:12   including Chrome on the desktop.

01:00:16   So these things are gonna continue to filter out

01:00:19   and do all the things that these things do, right?

01:00:21   Like help you write emails and summarize meeting notes

01:00:24   and make connections across documents.

01:00:26   Like that sort of classic workspace stuff.

01:00:29   Google is now catching up there.

01:00:31   - Yeah, I mean, it makes sense, right?

01:00:32   Because especially when it comes to the business

01:00:34   and enterprise offerings,

01:00:36   Google and Microsoft are more similar than not.

01:00:40   They both offer a suite of productivity tools

01:00:44   and email and calendar and file storage.

01:00:47   And Microsoft obviously pioneered this idea of like,

01:00:51   let's put AI into all of these tools

01:00:53   and now Google is gonna follow.

01:00:54   And arguably they have the big advantage of having Gmail

01:00:59   and Gemini built into Gmail,

01:01:03   which is potentially a huge,

01:01:06   I don't know how many hundreds of millions of users

01:01:10   Gmail has or like does it even have a billion users?

01:01:13   I don't know.

01:01:15   But having AI built into Gmail is potentially

01:01:17   like Google's greatest advantage

01:01:20   in terms of being a useful tool,

01:01:23   but also being a scary tool in terms of like extracting data

01:01:27   from people's Gmail.

01:01:29   So, but yeah, that's a big thing that they have

01:01:33   that Microsoft does not.

01:01:34   - One thing that I saw that I really,

01:01:37   honestly I really want and now I want Apple to do it

01:01:39   is you can now ask Gemini about things

01:01:42   in your Google Photos library.

01:01:44   So the demo was like, what's my license plate number?

01:01:47   And it searched through the library,

01:01:52   found a picture of license plates, gave it the numbers,

01:01:54   but then showed the picture so the person could double check

01:01:56   that it didn't misread it.

01:01:58   I mean, I know my license plate number,

01:02:01   mine's a custom plate, which is four characters on it,

01:02:05   so it's easy to remember.

01:02:06   But like most people don't know

01:02:07   their license plate number, I don't think.

01:02:09   And that's just a single example.

01:02:13   And I mean, there's search in photos, right?

01:02:15   Like just today I needed some photos

01:02:16   from the last podcast-a-thon,

01:02:18   so I searched September 2023, St. Jude,

01:02:21   but it gave me 400 results.

01:02:22   And I was looking for like five pictures,

01:02:24   like, well, what if I could keep narrowing it down

01:02:26   and at some point Apple's work in this area

01:02:29   just doesn't kind of live up to what it could be?

01:02:33   So I do hope this is something that we can do

01:02:35   in our own photo libraries if you're using iCloud Photos.

01:02:38   Again, Apple would do this where it's all on device,

01:02:41   which means it'd be like building these indexes

01:02:44   on all of your devices, and that would be kind of weird.

01:02:46   We've seen that over the years play out in different ways.

01:02:50   But there's a lot of information in our photo libraries,

01:02:53   and being able to find something quickly

01:02:54   would be pretty cool.

01:02:56   - Yeah, especially if you can do so with natural language.

01:02:59   Like imagine like doing, for example,

01:03:03   hey, show me a pretty common one.

01:03:08   Like show me what I was wearing

01:03:10   the last time I went out for dinner with Steven.

01:03:14   Like because maybe we're going out again

01:03:15   and I don't want to dress up the same.

01:03:17   - Yeah. - You know?

01:03:18   Like something simple like that,

01:03:19   it sounds simple in your brain.

01:03:21   Like, hey, what was I wearing the last time

01:03:23   I went for dinner with Steven?

01:03:24   But like explain that to a computer.

01:03:26   Like there are so many different clues to understand.

01:03:30   And so, yeah, I am excited about that idea.

01:03:33   - They're also doing some open AI stuff

01:03:37   in terms of the multimodal assistant.

01:03:39   So there's Project Astra, which they said,

01:03:44   there's this great piece on the verge by David Pierce

01:03:47   that we'll link to,

01:03:49   talking to several people at Google

01:03:51   who have worked on this.

01:03:53   And it is that multimodal AI assistant.

01:03:55   So we can see through the cameras on your phone

01:03:58   and it can hear you.

01:03:59   And it is much more like what open AI pitched

01:04:04   the day before than what Google Assistant

01:04:06   and Siri can do now.

01:04:08   I think it's clear that something like this

01:04:11   will power Google Assistant in the future.

01:04:14   Right now it seems to be kind of

01:04:16   like to the side of Google Assistant

01:04:18   and like it's kind of a new thing.

01:04:20   But once all of this is mainstream,

01:04:23   I think this is just how these virtual assistants will work.

01:04:26   And now two of the three companies,

01:04:29   assuming Apple is the third, I guess,

01:04:32   have now shown this to be the case.

01:04:34   Like, yeah, this is how these things should

01:04:36   and will work in the future.

01:04:38   - Yeah, and I have to believe that this is also

01:04:42   what Apple is gonna be working on, right?

01:04:44   Like this idea of multimodal assistants

01:04:48   that are not just chatbots,

01:04:50   that are not just like prompts,

01:04:53   but accept a variety of methods.

01:04:57   That seems to be something that is right up Apple's belly,

01:05:00   I think, of like, we want,

01:05:03   if it's gonna be Siri,

01:05:05   we want Siri to be useful everywhere.

01:05:08   And yeah, we'll see.

01:05:10   They also shut off like this new model, Veo.

01:05:14   Veo, how do you wanna pronounce it?

01:05:16   Veo? - Veo?

01:05:18   Now that you've said it both ways, I don't know.

01:05:20   - Yeah, it's a model for producing video,

01:05:23   basically like Google's answer to Sora by OpenAI.

01:05:26   The Google version can produce 1080p content

01:05:31   based on prompts that,

01:05:33   like based on text image and video prompts.

01:05:37   Now, I gotta wonder,

01:05:39   because everybody's been asking OpenAI,

01:05:41   hey, is Sora being trained on YouTube?

01:05:44   I have to imagine that Google's model

01:05:48   has been trained on YouTube footage.

01:05:51   - Yeah.

01:05:53   - So yeah, I think this is one worth keeping an eye on,

01:05:57   because it's from the company that owns YouTube,

01:05:59   and they can do whatever they want with that footage.

01:06:02   And if they wanna use it to train AI,

01:06:05   that could be interesting.

01:06:07   And also quite scary.

01:06:09   I should say that most of these things,

01:06:12   they are, like my opinion on these AI features,

01:06:17   they are equally impressive,

01:06:22   because I mean, let's face it,

01:06:23   from a computer science perspective, they are impressive.

01:06:27   They're remarkable, but they're also very scary,

01:06:30   especially for creative professionals.

01:06:34   Like I found OpenAI's demo

01:06:39   for tutoring a student with an iPad

01:06:43   and Child DPT running on a tablet,

01:06:45   I found it terrifying if you're a teacher,

01:06:49   if you're anybody in the education field,

01:06:53   like the thought of, well, I'm just a person.

01:06:56   How can I even compete with an AI

01:07:01   that has access to the world's information in all,

01:07:05   in literally all the languages

01:07:07   that are spoken on planet earth?

01:07:09   And I'm just a teacher.

01:07:11   Like I find most of these tools

01:07:14   technologically fascinating and remarkable,

01:07:18   and also scary, just scary and dangerous

01:07:22   for the human race.

01:07:25   Yeah, like people in creative fields,

01:07:29   people in the medical field,

01:07:32   I know some folks who have been asking

01:07:35   Child DPT for medical advice,

01:07:36   people in educational fields,

01:07:40   yeah, people do it, people do it.

01:07:42   You give people this kind of tool.

01:07:44   I mean, it used to be that people would look up

01:07:46   if they had cancer on Google and Wikipedia and WebMD,

01:07:50   and now they're gonna do that with Child DPT.

01:07:53   You give people a search tool and they use it.

01:07:59   It's just what they do, they use it.

01:08:01   And so, yeah, I think it's scary,

01:08:04   which is why I'm much more okay with the idea

01:08:07   of using AI to access, process, rediscover your data,

01:08:12   and I am personally much less okay with generative AI

01:08:25   as a way to replace existing human jobs.

01:08:30   I find the idea of using AI to create

01:08:38   an actual second brain, for example,

01:08:42   or a super powerful search tool

01:08:45   that searches through my computer for my stuff.

01:08:47   That technology is incredible,

01:08:52   but when we get to, "Hey, what about creating a movie

01:08:56   "with a text prompt?"

01:08:58   That's scary, I don't know.

01:09:00   - I think that line is,

01:09:03   I think where a lot of people kind of feel things change.

01:09:06   - Or, for example, another cool use case in Android,

01:09:13   they shut off using AI to listen in on spam calls

01:09:17   or scams on the phone.

01:09:20   Yes, that is the perfect use for a robot.

01:09:23   Put it to work, let it handle the spam calls coming in.

01:09:28   I would love to have something like this on my phone.

01:09:33   That is a perfect, free the human

01:09:37   from the job of answering the spam call, yes.

01:09:40   There is a use of AI that is okay with me,

01:09:43   and it's also why, with all these announcements

01:09:47   from OpenAI and Google, I am intrigued, to say the least,

01:09:51   in terms of how Apple is going to navigate these waters

01:09:55   next month.

01:09:56   How do they sidestep the potential issue of,

01:10:00   as we've seen with the crash ad,

01:10:02   like your generative AI is destroying creative professionals

01:10:07   or, at the very least, it poses a serious harm

01:10:11   to creative professionals.

01:10:12   I think it's gonna be interesting to see

01:10:14   how Apple is going to reconcile Wall Street's need

01:10:19   for generative AI versus people's feelings about it.

01:10:24   Yeah, Jason and I spoke about that.

01:10:26   It feels very complicated for Apple to get that right.

01:10:29   Jason had a good point.

01:10:30   It's like, well, Apple now has a month

01:10:32   to figure it out after the ad controversy,

01:10:36   and I think that's accurate.

01:10:38   They've gotten the appetizer a month in advance.

01:10:43   No.

01:10:44   Aipatizer.

01:10:46   Aipapat.

01:10:47   I'm sorry, listeners, I didn't mean for Steven to do that,

01:10:51   but he is sentient on his own,

01:10:55   so he can do these things. That's right.

01:10:56   I'm a large language model, paradigm dad jokes.

01:11:00   Yeah.

01:11:01   We need to talk about Google AI and search,

01:11:04   and so they are adding a lot more AI-generated results

01:11:08   to the search page, which, of course,

01:11:11   pushes regular web search to links

01:11:14   to websites like mine and yours further down the page.

01:11:17   Goodbye.

01:11:19   Yeah, a lot of publishers, I think,

01:11:21   rightfully are worried about this.

01:11:23   Don't worry, though, Google's new head of search

01:11:27   says that it's fine.

01:11:29   Liz Reed, and I quote, says, "Young users in particular

01:11:32   are always looking for a human perspective on their query,"

01:11:36   and says it's still Google's job to give that to them.

01:11:39   Ah, yes, the youth saving the blood.

01:11:40   The youth, they'll save us.

01:11:42   Thank you.

01:11:42   (laughs)

01:11:44   There's also a filter.

01:11:46   You can just hit web,

01:11:47   and it shows you just the links like before,

01:11:50   but you can't fully turn off the AI stuff.

01:11:53   I mean, this is gonna further complicate

01:11:55   Google's relationship with internet publishers.

01:11:58   I don't think, there was some back and forth on,

01:12:01   I think, Threads earlier, some people, like,

01:12:04   well, people are just gonna turn off crawling to Google.

01:12:06   It's like, no, you can't.

01:12:07   Like, you just can't do that,

01:12:11   'cause then you're gonna starve as a web publisher,

01:12:14   but this does complicate things.

01:12:16   There's already been so much mess around,

01:12:21   even before it was, air quotes, AI,

01:12:25   just like when you would search for something on Google,

01:12:26   and it would pull an answer from a website

01:12:28   onto the search result for you, like in a box, right?

01:12:31   Lots of people called Fowl.

01:12:33   Many more people call Fowl over this,

01:12:36   and I think for me, that's the biggest thing out of IO.

01:12:41   Like, the rest of the stuff is like interesting/scary.

01:12:45   Some of it won't exist,

01:12:47   but if they truly change, like, Google search

01:12:50   in a way that it looks like they're going to,

01:12:54   that could be a fundamental change

01:12:56   in a lot of how the internet works,

01:12:59   and I just don't know if we're ready for that.

01:13:01   - Yeah.

01:13:04   - It's a scary time to run a website as a business

01:13:09   and to depend on Google,

01:13:12   which is why I think over the past few years,

01:13:16   you and I and Rayleigh, Max Stories, and Jason,

01:13:21   Ben Thompson, like, it's the reason why

01:13:25   we have explored other avenues for revenue

01:13:29   and to sort of stop playing that game altogether

01:13:34   of running a business,

01:13:38   and the only source of support that you get

01:13:43   is the people that find you via Google search,

01:13:46   and Google has shown time and time again

01:13:48   that they just don't care.

01:13:51   It's not like they have an opinion,

01:13:56   because if you want to have an opinion,

01:13:59   you need to care in the first place.

01:14:02   They literally don't care.

01:14:04   For them, it's not people with websites.

01:14:07   It's content feeding the algorithm.

01:14:12   They absolutely don't care.

01:14:14   I've seen, I've been having these conversations

01:14:18   over the past couple, over the past year, actually,

01:14:21   with two different friends who started websites

01:14:26   about portable gaming,

01:14:32   and it's scary out there, with Google basically destroying,

01:14:37   with their changes to search,

01:14:40   the amount of people that find them,

01:14:42   and it's why I'm seeing these new, smaller publications

01:14:47   immediately explore tools like memberships or newsletters

01:14:54   or just to sort of expand beyond the reach of Google search,

01:15:01   and so it's, and the worst thing is,

01:15:05   this is happening no matter what.

01:15:07   Like, it's a train that you cannot stop,

01:15:11   so I don't have anything else to say except that

01:15:17   if anybody's gonna be affected by this,

01:15:19   the best time to start exploring other

01:15:23   business opportunities beyond Google search was yesterday,

01:15:28   and the next best time is right now, yeah.

01:15:31   - Agreed. - Yeah.

01:15:32   I mean, I don't wanna end on a down note

01:15:36   because I think it's been a pretty fun episode.

01:15:39   I always have these fun episodes with you

01:15:40   when Mike is not around.

01:15:42   - Yeah, he holds us back.

01:15:43   - I'm not sure he's gonna like to hear that, you know?

01:15:48   - Yeah, maybe it's the hype.

01:15:50   We're just so tall and big without him.

01:15:52   - We're just so tall now.

01:15:53   It's that, it's that.

01:15:54   - Yeah, I can see for miles up here.

01:15:56   It's great.

01:15:57   - I'm getting kind of uncomfortable.

01:15:58   You've been sitting on my shoulders

01:15:59   for like an hour and 25 minutes.

01:16:02   (laughing)

01:16:04   My neck is starting to feel the pressure.

01:16:06   - Okay, well, yeah, you gotta,

01:16:08   the Vision Pro, you know, is training.

01:16:10   - Here's, just dismount, Steven, please.

01:16:12   But no, yeah, I mean, it's scary,

01:16:17   and yeah, please, if you have a website,

01:16:21   try others, try new things would be my advice.

01:16:26   Try new things and try build a relationship

01:16:29   with your readers or your listeners.

01:16:31   Like, do not depend on Google search

01:16:33   because Google doesn't care about you

01:16:36   and never will, never have and never will.

01:16:38   So, yeah.

01:16:39   - So, that's the show.

01:16:43   - That's the show.

01:16:44   - We've done the show.

01:16:46   We are now in keynote season.

01:16:48   OpenAI and Google are done.

01:16:51   WBC is just a few weeks away.

01:16:52   We'll be making our picks in just a couple of weeks,

01:16:54   which is hard to believe.

01:16:56   If you wanna find links to stuff we spoke about,

01:17:00   so you can point your AI LLM at them

01:17:03   to summarize them for you,

01:17:05   they are in your podcast player

01:17:06   and on the web at relay.fm/connected/502.

01:17:11   There's also a feedback form there.

01:17:12   You can send us feedback or follow up via the form,

01:17:16   and you can also join and get Connected Pro,

01:17:18   which is the longer ad-free version of the show

01:17:20   that we do each and every week.

01:17:23   Connected Pro members also get access

01:17:25   to the Relay Members Discord,

01:17:27   a couple of Relay Members Only podcasts,

01:17:30   including our annual specials that we do every year.

01:17:33   We're gonna be recording the Connected one very soon.

01:17:34   We'll talk more about that in the near future,

01:17:36   but lots of good stuff happening in membership land,

01:17:39   so go check that out.

01:17:40   Mike's not here,

01:17:42   but if you want to let him know that you missed him--

01:17:45   - Yeah, what should people do?

01:17:48   - What should people do?

01:17:51   I think--

01:17:52   - It's gotta be something about AI.

01:17:54   - I think send Mike a picture or a GIF

01:17:58   of your favorite robot.

01:17:59   - Yes, yes.

01:18:02   - You can do that on Mastodon or Threads.

01:18:03   He's iMike, both places.

01:18:05   You can find him.

01:18:06   - A picture or GIF of your favorite robot?

01:18:10   - Favorite robot.

01:18:12   - Favorite robot, all right.

01:18:13   - You can follow Federico online as well.

01:18:17   You don't have to send him favorite robots,

01:18:20   but actually, please don't do that.

01:18:22   Just do that to Mike.

01:18:23   - Yeah, just click links on my website.

01:18:26   Don't make me happy.

01:18:26   - Yes, yes, go check out MacStories.

01:18:28   There'll be an iPad Pro review there, I guess,

01:18:31   at some point, and MacPad stuff,

01:18:36   and of course, you guys will be doing lots of coverage

01:18:39   as W3C kicks off here in just a few weeks.

01:18:42   You can follow Federico on social media as Vitici,

01:18:44   V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:18:47   He is on Mastodon and Threads.

01:18:49   You can find my writing at 512pixels.net.

01:18:52   Just go ahead and make that your homepage,

01:18:54   so you don't have to let Google wait

01:18:58   and slowly destroy all web traffic.

01:19:00   You can follow me on social media.

01:19:02   I'm ismh@eworld.social on Mastodon,

01:19:05   and ismh86 on Threads.

01:19:08   Maybe one day those will be the same thing.

01:19:11   I'd like to thank our sponsors this week

01:19:12   for making the show possible, Jam, Squarespace, and Tailscale.

01:19:16   Until next week, Federico, say goodbye.

01:19:19   - Arrivederci.

01:19:20   - Bye, y'all.