515: The WWDC Keynote Draft 2024


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:07   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 515, the WWDC draft for 2024.

00:00:17   This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, Tailscale and Express VPN.

00:00:22   It is June 3rd, 2024.

00:00:24   My name is Mike Hurley and I am joined by my collaborator and competitor, Jason Snell.

00:00:30   515, baby, woo!

00:00:32   Good to be here for drafting.

00:00:33   Any 515 facts for us or is that...

00:00:35   I... It's a sequel error, I think, I don't know.

00:00:39   It sounds like it would be an interstate...

00:00:42   Well, 5015 area code is just Iowa.

00:00:44   That's boring. Sorry, Iowa.

00:00:47   Interstate 515 is like a spur in Nevada.

00:00:51   No, I don't...

00:00:52   It feels really resonant, but it's not.

00:00:54   515, just...

00:00:55   It means...

00:00:55   You know what the most important thing about 515 is?

00:00:58   Tell me.

00:00:59   It's the WWDC 2024 draft.

00:01:02   I have a Snell Talk question for you and it comes from me to you, Jason.

00:01:06   Okay.

00:01:07   What are your current excitement levels for WWDC this year?

00:01:10   Low.

00:01:13   Okay.

00:01:14   Sorry.

00:01:15   No, no, but you know what, though?

00:01:18   I figured it was either going to be low or high and that was why I wanted to ask you.

00:01:21   Like, I wanted to kind of vibe check you right now.

00:01:24   Low, mostly because there's not going to be any hardware.

00:01:27   Last year, they launched a whole new platform and introduced a whole new piece of hardware.

00:01:32   This year, it feels like they've been given the directive to integrate the AI stuff everywhere.

00:01:37   And that's interesting, but it also means that my expectations for everything else are pretty low.

00:01:44   It feels like, you know, and maybe we'll be surprised.

00:01:48   I hope we're surprised because I'm feeling like they're going to be very minimal additions to everything.

00:01:55   Yes.

00:01:56   Especially if you're not the iPhone and except in the realm of AI, right?

00:02:02   And AI features.

00:02:03   And those probably be nice to have, although I'm on the rector saying people will probably be disappointed

00:02:08   because they're probably going to compact a whole bunch of wishes into this dream of Apple's big AI reveal.

00:02:13   And it's going to be much more pragmatic and not as exciting as all that.

00:02:18   And so like some of the stuff that I really love is like interesting new Mac features and maybe there's a couple

00:02:23   new pieces of hardware. And I, it sounds to me like it's going to be much more straightforward than that.

00:02:31   And the AI stuff is stuff they want to do, but it's almost like they're telling us to eat our vegetables a little bit

00:02:38   where it's like, okay, we got to do this AI stuff, everybody ready?

00:02:40   And they do.

00:02:41   It's not like they don't have to.

00:02:42   All right, let's do it.

00:02:44   And so, yeah, I'm thinking the fiber content of this year's WWDC may be higher than usual.

00:02:51   And that's, it's, you know, necessary roughage.

00:02:54   It's fine, but it's not the most exciting to me.

00:02:58   So where I am with this right now, like I have been on a little bit of a journey where at first I didn't think Apple would have much to show.

00:03:08   Then I thought they would have much to show.

00:03:10   And now I think maybe they, they won't again, or at least the state of AI has moved so fast in the last even six weeks

00:03:19   that I feel like even with all the stuff they're going to show, it might feel a little bit underwhelming.

00:03:25   Like the amount of time that they're going to spend on the features and that these features won't, they will pale in comparison to Microsoft, for example.

00:03:36   That's kind of the fear that I have right now that like it's not, it's not going to be that like they're going to spend all this time talking about all this incredible new stuff, but it might not actually feel that incredible.

00:03:46   However, I'm kind of also at the same time, like where I am today, I'm allowing for myself to remain hopeful that they're going to have some stuff that is cool.

00:03:57   Yeah. Oh, and I hope there, I hope there is, but also when I get that eat your vegetables feeling, part of it is that Apple does need to do table steaks, does need to catch up in a bunch of areas.

00:04:07   Right. And that's less exciting, but it's necessary.

00:04:10   Like I was listening to, to ATP over the weekend and one of the things Marco said struck me, which is he was like, I hope that they do things to excite us and show that Apple is pushing things forward and not just playing catch up.

00:04:21   And then John said something like, but those are table stakes.

00:04:24   They have to do it.

00:04:25   And that was my thought, which is on one level, I understand not being excited by Apple doing this stuff that's already been announced by other, other players, Microsoft and Google in particular.

00:04:36   On the other hand, they got to do it right.

00:04:39   Like if they don't do it, it's a disaster.

00:04:41   But I feel like they have to do both.

00:04:44   Like they have to show the table stakes and then how are they pushing the state of the art forward?

00:04:48   Where's the little Apple magic, that little Apple magic here and there where they're like, aha, everybody else does it like this, but we decided to do it like this, which when that is done right, everybody else goes, oh yeah, we should do it like that too.

00:05:00   Right.

00:05:00   That's the kind of Apple magic stuff.

00:05:02   So I hope, I hope we see some of that.

00:05:04   And I, and I do remain hopeful that they will be able to do both of these things, like they will be able to show off the basics and also show me some stuff that's going to get me excited.

00:05:16   And if Siri transforms finally from being something that's just really not very good to something that's a lot better, or at least has the potential to be a lot better if we trust them and believe that it will be whenever it ships, you know, that, that would be a big step right there.

00:05:29   Cause that's the thing we've been wanting for a long time.

00:05:31   Yep.

00:05:32   Most definitely, most definitely.

00:05:34   Um, there's also kind of like where I am right now is not too dissimilar to kind of how I was feeling for the vision pro shipped, which is no matter what the feeling is, no matter what the features are, it's going to be really interesting to talk about.

00:05:52   That's kind of where I am with WWDC, AI or whatever they announced at WWDC, there will be a lot for us to pick apart, whether it's good, bad, or whether we like it or not.

00:06:04   That's kind of where I'm feeling with it.

00:06:05   So that excites me always anyway.

00:06:07   So.

00:06:07   And argue about, right?

00:06:09   Like, I mean, arguing about it, um, cause I do think that there are a lot of people who feel like a lot of the AI stuff is hype and a lot of it is, but what percentage is hype?

00:06:17   And so they're going to be people who might say, Oh, Apple didn't do this thing and the counter is going to be, yeah, but that thing is bad actually.

00:06:23   Right.

00:06:24   And that's going to be a real push and pull too.

00:06:26   It's a little bit of a, a Rorschach test about, um, how you feel about AI.

00:06:32   And you know, I I've said it before.

00:06:34   I think AI has, has enormous potential and also is overhyped.

00:06:37   I think both of those things are true.

00:06:39   Yes.

00:06:39   Um, so where Apple comes down will be interesting.

00:06:41   Yep.

00:06:41   Most definitely.

00:06:43   Uh, if you would like to send Dennis now talk for a future episode, you can always go to upgrade feedback.com.

00:06:48   Thanks me for sending that one in via our document, which it also, if you have access to our document, you can just put one in there.

00:06:55   But that, that group is very small.

00:06:57   Wow.

00:06:58   That's real dangerous.

00:06:59   You just said that I can always delete them, you know, I can always delete them.

00:07:04   Yeah, but true.

00:07:05   But who has access to our document?

00:07:07   Uh, this new document, not many people actually.

00:07:10   I think Federico, you and Zach, who produces the interactive scorecards, we can, you can always get over upgrade.cards.

00:07:19   Thank you, Zach, for producing those for us.

00:07:21   And that leads me so beautifully into the rules for the draft.

00:07:27   They're slightly different this time, so that we're going to talk about it.

00:07:31   I'm going to go through them.

00:07:32   They may need a bit more, uh, explanation as we go through it, but these are the rules for the WWDC draft this year.

00:07:37   There will be 12 rounds, 24 overall picks as we pick each, we each get a pick per round.

00:07:43   The picks this time are chosen from a predetermined list of choices as they always are, which we have agreed could be verifiable on screen and not ridiculously obvious.

00:07:53   However, here's the change.

00:07:55   Each host, just the two of us, must draft at least one pick from each of the following five categories, iOS, iPadOS, macOS, VisionOS and AI.

00:08:08   Each host must call out the mandatory picks specifically when they are made, right?

00:08:13   So if we're saying, oh, this is going to be my iOS pick, or this is going to be my iPadOS pick.

00:08:18   So we have those five categories.

00:08:20   We each have to make one pick in each of these categories.

00:08:22   Every other pick for the 12 rounds can be from anything.

00:08:26   It can be, we could pick more iOS stuff, more AI stuff, but we have to make at least one pick in each of the specific categories that I mentioned.

00:08:35   Is that explained?

00:08:36   Yeah, the goal here is to spread the picks around at least a little bit.

00:08:40   So they're not, for example, all AI picks and, uh, it provides a little bit of a challenge and there's a little bit of game going on there.

00:08:47   Um, I explained to Mike that it's a little like fantasy sports where you've got a roster and you've got particular slots that you have to fill.

00:08:55   And the example I gave is that, you know, you, you, it's the last round and then you pick a kicker.

00:09:01   It's that kind of thing where, uh, there's just, we're not trying to complexify this.

00:09:05   We're actually trying to do this so that the podcast is better.

00:09:07   And we talk about each of these five subjects at some point, rather than piling on one category.

00:09:15   The winner of the previous draft gets to pick first, which is me.

00:09:18   And as always, to count in scoring, it must either be clearly announced on stage or on a slide during the presentation.

00:09:25   Steven Hackett will adjudicate in the case that we need it, but we will always try to work it out ourselves.

00:09:30   No partial points are awarded and the points awarded on the episode of final and finalized during the scoring segment.

00:09:37   Lest we remember WWDC 2022.

00:09:40   Sorry about that.

00:09:41   In the case of a tie, there is a tiebreaker question.

00:09:44   The loser gets the pick of the tiebreaker question.

00:09:46   And then the draft winner gets the over under on that.

00:09:49   The winner becomes draft champion and displays the champion pennant.

00:09:54   The loser becomes draft challenger and displays the challenger pennant.

00:09:58   You can always buy your own draft T over upgradeyourwardrobe.com so you can be ready for all drafts.

00:10:05   Like I am today, I'm wearing my draft T-shirt today.

00:10:08   These are my favorite things.

00:10:10   Now we've been doing this for so long.

00:10:11   We have a lot of statistics.

00:10:13   There have been eight WWDC drafts in upgrade history.

00:10:16   Jason has won three WWDC drafts.

00:10:18   Mike has won five WWDC drafts.

00:10:20   Wait, you mean Snell Talk listener Mike?

00:10:23   Snell Talk listener Mike.

00:10:24   He's really good actually.

00:10:25   So far, you should have him sign something.

00:10:27   Why not?

00:10:28   So far this year there has been one draft, the iPad draft, which I won.

00:10:33   Uh, I, as Jason mentioned a moment ago, I am on quite a streak.

00:10:36   I don't think this is the longest streak ever.

00:10:38   You hold that.

00:10:39   Um, but I'm, I'm going for it.

00:10:41   Yeah.

00:10:42   Good for you.

00:10:43   Would you like to pick the tiebreaker question?

00:10:46   All right.

00:10:47   The tiebreaker is event runtime, and I'm going to set the over under at one hour and 50 minutes.

00:10:52   Okay.

00:10:55   Now you, I saw in our, in our picks document, I think.

00:10:59   Yes.

00:11:00   You put the, we have the runtimes of the last three WWDCs.

00:11:04   They were 146 in 2021, 148 in 2022 and 206 in 2023.

00:11:11   You picked one hour 50 really well.

00:11:13   And I think for my same thinking, which is, I mean, it's unlikely that they would match last year, right?

00:11:21   They introduced an entire platform and hardware.

00:11:25   So over two hours, you figure it's gotta be less than that.

00:11:30   And if previous years have always got to the high 145 to 150 Mark, oh boy, I'm going to say under an hour and 50.

00:11:41   I'm going to say under, and I, I feel like the AI stuff, as we said earlier, is most likely to just be replacing most of what they would normally do rather than being additive to the typical OS improvements.

00:11:55   So I was surprised because it looks like generally they're, they shoot for 145, but I think generally what they're really shooting for is two and not 145, but they're happy to come under.

00:12:06   206 in 2023, remember the whole vision pro there. And yet it was really only 15 minutes, 20 minutes longer than the previous one.

00:12:15   So clearly they're shooting for something between 145 and two.

00:12:19   I didn't feel comfortable choosing two as the over under because I think vision pro really pushed that thing along.

00:12:23   I wasn't comfortable pitch choosing 145 because I think that would have made it a lot easier to choose the over.

00:12:29   So this was your question is, is it going to be a little longer than normal because of AI or is it going to kind of be in the ballpark?

00:12:36   So I think that's a good pick by you.

00:12:37   I was kind of hoping to tempt you to the over because I also think it's probably going to be about 145, 148, but, um, we'll see.

00:12:44   We sure will.

00:12:46   All right.

00:12:48   So I think that that will bring us to the first rounds of the draft for this year.

00:12:53   So I will be going first and I will immediately be picking my AI mandatory pick to begin.

00:13:01   Oh, okay.

00:13:01   This is the gamesmanship, right?

00:13:04   Like I've been thinking a lot about this, like I've been pretty, pretty stressed out about how to call these picks, right?

00:13:09   So I'm going first.

00:13:11   AI pick mandatory.

00:13:13   And my number one pick is Siri becomes more conversational.

00:13:17   Okay.

00:13:19   What do we mean by that?

00:13:20   I mean, I had it high on my list too, so it's a good pick, but what do we mean by that?

00:13:25   You know, I do actually think they will call it this specifically, like I think conversational, but I think what we're

00:13:34   going to see is Apple demonstrating that Siri, like the personality is different.

00:13:40   It's changed like that.

00:13:41   It responds more, asks you more questions.

00:13:44   It's going to be something here about like, this might be a bit of a know it when we see it kind of, kind of thing.

00:13:50   But I think it will become quite clear that the Siri in iOS 18 will be more advanced than the Siri in iOS 17.

00:14:01   That in the conversations you have with it, it will be different.

00:14:04   Right.

00:14:04   Listener David Schaub is asking like, we have conversational in quotes actually.

00:14:07   Does that need to be used?

00:14:09   And I don't think the exact word needs to be used, but I think that we would both agree.

00:14:12   What we mean by this is that it is more conversational in the sense of you're having a conversation with Siri.

00:14:17   It is, it feels more like you're having a conversation with a person.

00:14:21   Oh my God.

00:14:22   I have roofers on my roof today, Mike.

00:14:24   So there may be occasional noises.

00:14:26   I apologize.

00:14:27   Sorry.

00:14:27   Bad timing.

00:14:28   But here's why it is.

00:14:31   I think we mean conversational.

00:14:32   We'll know it when we see it.

00:14:33   It's like having a conversation with Siri.

00:14:34   And if it, if it, if it's still like feeding a commands in a command line, you don't get the pick.

00:14:38   And if it's more like, Hey Mike, yeah, I can help you with that.

00:14:40   What do you want to know?

00:14:41   Like, it'd be like, okay, it's conversational now.

00:14:43   Uh, we'll, we'll, we're gentle.

00:14:45   This is a gentleman's agreement kind of thing.

00:14:47   And Steven's there if we disagree.

00:14:48   Yeah, I do feel like this is, this is one that feels pretty locked to me.

00:14:53   Like Siri, no matter, no matter what happens, Siri is the interface, right?

00:14:59   Like that, that's kind of how I feel.

00:15:01   And yeah, if they rename it or something too, we, we know what this means.

00:15:04   We, we get it.

00:15:05   What this, but I just feel like if they were going to do anything and not have some kind of enhancements to it, that that is going to be one of these things that they're going to, they're going to seem behind if they're not making some kind of, uh, uh, yeah.

00:15:25   Personality that seems chatty.

00:15:27   Yeah.

00:15:27   Yeah.

00:15:28   For sure.

00:15:29   All right.

00:15:30   You're up.

00:15:30   All right.

00:15:31   Well, um, this is funny because I'm also going to do some gamesmanship here.

00:15:36   And so for that reason, and that reason only I'm choosing a Mac pic, this is my Mac pic and it's system settings as redesigned in Mac OS.

00:15:44   Uh, what do I mean by this?

00:15:45   Um, uh, as Mark Herman has reported that the idea that they're going to make some changes in system settings, uh, whether it's reorganization or favorites or other things, the organization, I'm not saying it's necessarily going to look dramatically.

00:15:58   Different, but that they're going to make some organizational changes in Mac OS settings so that it's better.

00:16:03   Now this may also be an iOS and iPad iOS, but I'm specifically saying, you know, Mac OS, they're going to do some, something to write the disaster.

00:16:10   I'm not using that word lightly.

00:16:12   That is the organization and structure and function of system settings.

00:16:17   And it's my Mac pic.

00:16:18   So the, uh, the gamesmanship here is that of all of the categories that we have predetermined, we have the fewest Mac OS picks.

00:16:28   I think for reasons, I don't like any of them.

00:16:30   No, they're all bad.

00:16:30   Uh, but this one was the one that I had labeled.

00:16:34   I wasn't going to pick it for anytime soon, but, uh, this one seemed like maybe of all of the things we have, the thing that is the most likely to occur, if anything.

00:16:43   See the beauty of it is once the good quarterbacks are taken, you're left with the bad quarterbacks.

00:16:47   You just leave it till the end.

00:16:48   So you could just make your last pick the Mac pic if you want.

00:16:50   Currently in my, I have a, I have a short list of picks here, which is 25 picks long.

00:16:54   It is my final pick.

00:16:56   So we'll get to that later on.

00:16:57   It makes sense.

00:16:58   It makes sense.

00:16:58   But anyway, I, I went on a little rant on this on six colors podcast last week.

00:17:03   Cause I just was thinking about the system settings again.

00:17:05   Don't make me think about them and like how, how frustrating it is that they have no they're organized, except there is no order.

00:17:11   Um, and things are in various weird places and you can't find anything.

00:17:14   So all you can really do is search and how it could be so much better, either better ordered, or if you're going to admit that there is no order show recent make, be able to pin favorites.

00:17:26   It's anything would be better than what's currently there.

00:17:29   So I hope it happens.

00:17:29   All right.

00:17:31   My next pick, I'm actually gonna make another AI pick.

00:17:35   Okay.

00:17:36   Uh, AI summaries of notifications and content, I guess, you know, is where this is, but I don't think that makes a difference for anyway.

00:17:46   This is what I'm saying.

00:17:47   I think it's in our AI category.

00:17:49   So this is just a freebie.

00:17:50   Oh, yes, of course.

00:17:51   Yep.

00:17:51   Yep.

00:17:52   So if I'm thinking about what are the things that Apple's local models can do, this seems like the easiest that you would be able to either visually or audibly.

00:18:05   I actually think they will do both get summaries of all the notifications that you have.

00:18:10   Um, or you know, you're reading it, you've got an email on your screen and you could ask the assistant, what is this about?

00:18:17   But these kinds of things, which I think could be really helpful, right?

00:18:20   Like you're in a group chat that you're super noisy.

00:18:23   Be like, what's the group chat talking about today?

00:18:25   You know, and that you could, it could read stuff on screen.

00:18:29   That would be my real hope is that it's actually gonna read stuff on screen so it wouldn't even necessarily need developer buy-in, right?

00:18:35   Like, so you could go to a Discord channel and be like, what's happening here?

00:18:39   And I hope that Apple would be able to do that, right?

00:18:42   I feel like they could do that and I would like it if they would.

00:18:45   But I think the iOS, sorry, the AI kind of summaries of things could be, could be really nice.

00:18:51   And I think this could be something that Apple could implement in a way that, and I think a lot of these features is going to be important that they have stuff that they can do without there being a need for developers to have to opt in.

00:19:04   Cause I think that sometimes can, can halt them a little bit.

00:19:08   What's your second round pick?

00:19:11   All right, Mike, the, uh, the gamesmanship continues.

00:19:15   With my next pick, I choose an iPad pick because, because again, I don't think there are very many iPad things to pick, so I'm going to pick.

00:19:24   Yeah, it's a second round pick people.

00:19:26   The calculator app is coming to iPad OS.

00:19:29   That's my pick.

00:19:30   I came to win Mike.

00:19:32   I came to play hard and try to win one finally.

00:19:35   Calculator app on iPad OS.

00:19:37   Apologies to a friend of the show, James Thompson.

00:19:39   He'll be fine.

00:19:40   There's been a calculator app on the iPhone for a long time and he still sells his calculator on.

00:19:45   It's fine.

00:19:45   It's interesting.

00:19:47   I mean, I'm finding this interesting the way that you're, you're doing this.

00:19:51   Cause I had some of these picks and I was wondering like, what is best?

00:19:55   Is it best to claim the categories or is it best to claim the things that are most likely to happen, what we believe might be most likely to happen anyway?

00:20:01   So I guess we'll find out, right?

00:20:04   My feeling was that there were some categories so limited that I was unhappy with any of my choices.

00:20:12   And then there were categories where there was lots of stuff to pick from that I felt felt okay about.

00:20:16   And I felt like if there was literally only one Mac item and for me it was actually only two iPad items.

00:20:22   I would just try to grab them up front because I felt like it's the it's again, it's that if there are only three good quarterbacks, you want to grab them.

00:20:29   And if they're gone, then it doesn't matter.

00:20:32   You can just let them go.

00:20:32   So apologies to people who don't play fantasy American football, which I did for many years.

00:20:36   I got better and I don't do it anymore.

00:20:38   I draft Apple things now instead.

00:20:42   What was wrong with me?

00:20:44   I guess the interesting thing now is if you think there's only two iPad OS picks, like, do you just make the next one?

00:20:49   You know, like in the next round?

00:20:52   Is that how you play me?

00:20:53   Just to block you?

00:20:54   Yeah.

00:20:55   Um, that's an interesting idea.

00:20:57   Probably not, but I mean, you have to weigh that with...

00:20:59   I can't trust you, can I?

00:21:00   I can't trust you.

00:21:00   You can't trust me.

00:21:01   No, I can't trust you.

00:21:02   Well, that's the thing.

00:21:03   Yeah.

00:21:03   If you, if there's only one up there, you could view it as well.

00:21:06   Jason's got his iPad pick.

00:21:07   He doesn't need to pick the other one or yeah, right.

00:21:09   I could pick it and leave you with the dregs.

00:21:11   Um, you don't know how I feel about the probability of those items, right?

00:21:17   If I felt there were two high probability items about the iPad, I could go with them early or not.

00:21:23   Uh, but you don't know whether I feel that way or not.

00:21:25   That's the strategy here.

00:21:27   Little extra without adding a lot of complication.

00:21:30   There's a little extra strategy.

00:21:31   Spice.

00:21:32   It's true.

00:21:33   Been doing this for almost 10 years, Mike.

00:21:35   This is our ninth, ninth WWDC draft.

00:21:39   I mean,

00:21:40   You got a, you know, a relationship that long.

00:21:43   You got to keep it spicy.

00:21:44   Keep it spicy.

00:21:45   Yeah.

00:21:46   Spice.

00:21:46   And so that means more rules, apparently is the way we keep our spice.

00:21:50   That's what does it.

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00:24:08   Okay, draft round three.

00:24:12   I'm going to pick my iOS pick now.

00:24:16   Oh, okay.

00:24:18   Which is free placement of apps and widgets in iOS.

00:24:21   Good pick, good pick.

00:24:23   Oh boy, is it time to allow me to put apps wherever I want on my own screen.

00:24:29   I heard somebody say this on a show recently.

00:24:31   I think it may have been Jon Voorhees on App Stories.

00:24:34   And he was like, do you think they'll get rid of jiggle mode?

00:24:36   And that was an interesting thought to me.

00:24:39   I don't know if they would get rid of the jiggling.

00:24:41   I do feel like I don't need that anymore.

00:24:45   But I don't know if maybe all customers do, you know what I mean?

00:24:49   Like on my Mac, for example, every time I drag a file, they don't all start dancing.

00:24:53   You know, like I can just, I can handle it.

00:24:55   I can move stuff around.

00:24:57   It's fine.

00:24:58   Um, we'll see.

00:24:59   I think they won't get rid of that, but it would be interesting to see what they do.

00:25:02   Uh, I'm just, I'm really keen about this.

00:25:05   Um, what this system is going to look like.

00:25:08   And I'm also intrigued to know if I'm going to use it.

00:25:10   Like, my home screens are all full.

00:25:13   Am I going to have non full home screens?

00:25:15   I don't know about that, but I do like the idea of a bit more freedom.

00:25:19   I've been struck by, especially on the iPad, Jason, of like how much space there is between the icons still.

00:25:25   Yeah.

00:25:26   Now I'm using a bigger iPad.

00:25:28   What is going on over there?

00:25:29   I could, I have like a row of four app icons and a bunch of widgets on my iPad home screen.

00:25:34   I could put eight app icons there and it'd be fine.

00:25:37   Like I can, if you look at the dock, I have so many in the dock in that same amount of space.

00:25:42   I know it's a ridiculous and I, I'm assuming we're not going to get any changes to the iPad home screen because they'll do one of those things where they put it on the iPhone and then they would make iPad users wait a year for it.

00:25:52   That'd be sad.

00:25:53   Oh, that'd be real sad, but you're probably right.

00:25:55   You're probably right.

00:25:56   Yep.

00:25:57   Yep.

00:25:57   What is your third round pick?

00:26:00   Uh, my third pick is new environments in vision.

00:26:05   Oh, S going with a vision. Oh, S pick, uh, coming, you know, those coming soon environments, they don't count.

00:26:12   So I adding some at least, um, and mentioning that they're adding more environments division.

00:26:17   Oh, S as part of the vision.

00:26:18   Oh, S to update.

00:26:19   So you're saying, cause I had in this pic that it would include the coming soon options.

00:26:24   You're going to exclude the coming soon options.

00:26:25   I know I'm saying that those count if they update the coming soon as to be there, that's actually there.

00:26:30   The new soon has come.

00:26:31   Yeah.

00:26:32   Then they're, they're new too.

00:26:34   If you can't use them now and you can use them, uh, in this announcement.

00:26:38   I would say that, you know, that they don't exist, right?

00:26:42   Uh, exactly.

00:26:43   It's time.

00:26:43   Well, there's, there's time.

00:26:44   I think this is something they should be doing.

00:26:46   Pastime.

00:26:46   Uh, this is, this is like, um, watches, right?

00:26:50   Like the, the watch faces.

00:26:51   This is like a thing Apple should be adding these at least once a year.

00:26:55   New environments.

00:26:56   Why not?

00:26:57   Absolutely.

00:26:59   And apparently they've got two that are coming soon.

00:27:01   So maybe now is soon.

00:27:04   Uh, my fourth round pick.

00:27:07   Hmm.

00:27:10   I'm going back to AI again.

00:27:13   All right.

00:27:15   That Siri can perform more actions inside of apps.

00:27:19   These are essentially shortcut actions is the way we'll think about them, but that you'll be in an app and you'll be able to say, be able to ask your assistant to do something for you inside of that application and that it will just go ahead and perform it.

00:27:33   Um, for the, for the nerds among us, I guess this will just be built on the same technology that, uh, shortcuts actions are built on like app intense and that kind of stuff to be able to, to surface things.

00:27:44   So like for, let's think of an example here that you could be, what app, what app would have good action?

00:27:50   Oh, you could be in timer, he say.

00:27:52   And you could just, you could just press the little button on the side of your phone and just say, stop my upgrade timer.

00:27:58   And it would just go ahead and do that because Siri should be able to understand what the app is able to perform.

00:28:03   The app has been able to tell the system, these are the things you can have and just have the assistant do this kind of stuff.

00:28:09   This to me feels like I think would, will be especially nice on the Mac, I think is where I can imagine myself using it a lot more.

00:28:16   But the idea of being able to talk to the computer and have the computer do things, it goes back to the, um, what was the name of that?

00:28:25   Uh, the, the, the knowledge navigator, right? It goes back to the knowledge navigator idea that we spoke about a few weeks ago, that you were essentially asking the computer to perform actions and the computer should be able to understand and perform those actions.

00:28:38   Exactly.

00:28:39   No, this is the, this is the dream, right?

00:28:41   Is that, is that one of the dredgeries that we have not been freed from by computers is operating computers.

00:28:47   And if you could tell your computer to do a thing instead of having to click 80 times in order to get it to do that thing.

00:28:54   I mean, this is, to me, this is the dream of user automation, which is instead of having to build shortcuts or write scripts, you tell the computer what you want to do and it does it even better.

00:29:07   You could tell it what to do and say the next time I ask you just do this thing.

00:29:12   Um, but yeah, I think, I think, I hope we see this.

00:29:16   I hope this is the, I mean, when they bought, um, workflow and made it shortcuts, they put it in the Siri group for a reason.

00:29:22   Right.

00:29:22   And I think this might be part of the reason is automation.

00:29:24   Siri should be part of automation.

00:29:25   I hope so.

00:29:26   Okay.

00:29:28   Mike, my pick is AI.

00:29:32   I'm going with my AI pick.

00:29:34   Uh, Xcode gets AI features.

00:29:36   Okay.

00:29:37   Copilot basically.

00:29:39   Yeah.

00:29:39   Any more thoughts on that?

00:29:42   This isn't dropping.

00:29:42   I'm just wondering, what do you think this is?

00:29:44   Like this just code completion.

00:29:46   Like it, you know, do you have a sense for what the, the, like the copilot stuff does?

00:29:51   And the Microsoft apps?

00:29:53   Uh, yeah, I mean, it is, I've seen this in a bunch of different apps, the code, code completion, suggestion, asking for help, asking for a routine, a subroutine to be dropped in basically that Apple has trained a model on, uh, Swift, at least if not objective C on Swift and that it will aid you using AI to aid coding in some way beyond that.

00:30:12   I am not a coder, but like, I would imagine that they're going to look to, uh, what Microsoft has done with copilot as their inspiration.

00:30:19   Yeah.

00:30:20   I mean the code copilot before they changed the brand to everything being code pilot, you know, the one, I mean, the one that's that they use in their, in their development tools.

00:30:27   I remember we, we spoke about this for the first time, maybe last year or the year before, like this felt like the thing that would come first.

00:30:35   First.

00:30:36   But it, but it, yeah.

00:30:37   Right.

00:30:38   I mean, we got the transformer model, right?

00:30:40   That's what we got.

00:30:41   Um, there's kind of like the first, uh, post GPT machine learning feature. We did not get Xcode stuff.

00:30:52   I think I remember there being a report once that Apple was concerned about accidentally leaking its own code and that's maybe why this took them a little bit longer.

00:31:00   Like they didn't want their internal stuff to be getting out through Xcode AI stuff.

00:31:06   So we'll see.

00:31:08   All right.

00:31:09   My next pick.

00:31:11   So this is pick number five.

00:31:13   AI created emoji.

00:31:16   Oh, wow.

00:31:20   Put in scare quotes around the word emoji.

00:31:23   Uh, because they're not going to be emoji.

00:31:27   Uh, it will be stickers, but they'll look like emoji and Apple will call them probably emoji or emoji stickers.

00:31:33   Uh, I, this is something that.

00:31:37   There has been a bit of smoke around.

00:31:41   Right.

00:31:41   Like I, I, this is a Mark Gurman report.

00:31:44   This kind of feature is, is just a before I think Google had a thing called emoji kitchen, I think is the name.

00:31:51   This just feels like such an Apple thing to do to me.

00:31:54   I think we spoke about it on the show last week that, you know, the system's going to be suggesting these handcrafted sticker emoji for you to share with your friends and make your chats more lively.

00:32:06   And by the hands of artificial intelligence.

00:32:09   Nobody's going to use them.

00:32:11   The, because it's going to be really weird.

00:32:13   I mean, or maybe this is how you get your chef's kiss emoji to everybody wants, you know,

00:32:17   it's going to be one of those, um, what were they were they slofies?

00:32:21   It's going to be one of those, Hey kids, let's make this a thing.

00:32:23   And everybody's going to be like, Meh,

00:32:24   I mean, stickers in general, right?

00:32:27   I think they keep trying to make stickers happen.

00:32:30   Um, I, I just, I really don't know.

00:32:33   I mean, I can imagine this maybe being fun for a few days, but I don't.

00:32:38   Unless this is really going to be very impressive and that all they are going to do what they actually should do, which is find a way to make them emoji, but then they're only going to work on iOS devices anyway.

00:32:47   And it's going to be a bit of a mess, but I do think they're going to go to this well and this is a fun thing that they can do that people will think will be fun.

00:32:55   And it will also show really well in ads.

00:32:57   Yeah.

00:32:58   Oh, I agree.

00:32:59   And they'll make an ad for it and there'll be like, isn't it fun?

00:33:01   And everybody else would be like,

00:33:03   it's, it's, this would be Apple dipping its toe into the generative area in a way that's not going to ups.

00:33:09   No, it's not going to upset people because there aren't like emoji artists that exist out there in the world.

00:33:15   They're going to have designed emoji pieces that the AI can use to construct a new emoji, right?

00:33:21   It'll be constructed from existing emoji lexicon.

00:33:24   Uh, right.

00:33:25   I think that's, what's going to happen here.

00:33:27   I think so.

00:33:27   So generative in the most limited sense, which I think there's going to be a lot of that.

00:33:30   If I had to make a prediction, I think there's going to be a lot of that where it's like, oh, you know, usually the AI announcement is like, we have a vast expense of the world and it'll create things.

00:33:38   And some of it will be bad at some of it will be interesting.

00:33:41   And some of it might even be what you call good.

00:33:43   Um, and then Apple will be like, we have a very limited directory of things from which we are choosing and it allows us to keep control because the AI can do what it wants, but only within our area.

00:33:55   And I think that that sounds very Apple.

00:33:58   That's an Apple way to do AI is we trained it on a very limited collection of emoji glyphs and that's all it can use.

00:34:05   So how bad could it be?

00:34:07   And it might still be bad, but we'll see.

00:34:08   What's your fourth round pick?

00:34:10   All right.

00:34:11   My pick, I'm going to go to iOS, which I haven't picked before, and I'm going to say users can change app icon colors.

00:34:17   Okay.

00:34:18   Um, we talked about this last week and I think that I'm going to stand by that speculation.

00:34:22   The idea that I don't think Apple is going to just say, although if they did, it would count.

00:34:26   Like if you want to make Facebook green, you can just do it.

00:34:29   I think it's going to be a developer story where they're like, aha, we're going to have themes or, or we're going to let you choose just like they do with SF symbols, choose a layer that will be the, where the.

00:34:39   Theme color will be reflected like a highlight or something like that.

00:34:43   And that if a developer like just absolutely hates the idea, they just won't participate.

00:34:49   Right.

00:34:50   Like I don't think Apple is going to go full on.

00:34:53   Like, yeah, you just change it.

00:34:54   And nobody, nobody cares just about your brand, do whatever.

00:34:58   I don't think they're going to do that, but I do think there's going to be some sort of theming involving the coloring of app icons.

00:35:05   And that's why, uh, I think this pick is broad enough to encompass that idea that like, if you want to say, I want orange, you'll get orange probably from some, if not all, or in some way that may or may not be satisfying, but app icon colors.

00:35:18   I do think it's going to happen.

00:35:19   Someone wrote in, uh, to upgrade feedback and mentioned, I'll get the name in a moment.

00:35:26   It mentioned the idea that a tvOS and I thought visionOS app icons are created in layers, right?

00:35:34   So you give Apple like a file, which is layered.

00:35:38   Yeah.

00:35:39   That's how you get the spatial kind of effect.

00:35:41   This could be the basis for changing some element.

00:35:44   Maybe you would be able to specify which element could be colored and which would, which is, which is how SF symbols basically work is that there's a portion of the, of the symbol that is designated as being kind of like attached to a color.

00:35:59   Um, so you don't just recolor the whole symbol.

00:36:02   You can recolor a portion of the symbol.

00:36:04   It's abstracting the, the design of what's colorable and what's not.

00:36:09   And I could totally see them doing something like that.

00:36:11   I can't find the name of that person in the feedback system.

00:36:14   But if that was you, thank you very much.

00:36:15   That was a good piece of feedback.

00:36:16   But yeah, I think that that could be a way to do it.

00:36:19   Right.

00:36:19   And then developers could provide some, but still, this one for me was low down in my picks because I remain skeptical of it.

00:36:32   So bottom line is this is my, um, you know, it was my highest rated iOS pick left, Mike.

00:36:38   And so for strategy reasons, not wanting to go even lower on my list, even though I know that I wouldn't probably have rated this very high either in the overall percent change of chance of happening.

00:36:48   But I think it's higher percent chance of happening then literally everything else that I see on the iOS list.

00:36:53   So I picked it.

00:36:54   Okay.

00:36:55   Ooh.

00:37:00   Now I'm wondering if I, if I should start jumping ahead to some of my mandatory picks or from just want to keep with the things that I think are most likely, uh, I'm good.

00:37:13   So I am actually going to take this time to at least get one more mantra pick off the board, which is a vision OS pick.

00:37:19   Oh, and my sixth round pick is that we will be able to rearrange apps in vision OS.

00:37:27   Because my word, if they don't do that, the platform's over.

00:37:30   If I can't move my apps around, what are we doing here?

00:37:36   You know, the thing, the thing that could come back to bite me with this is they might not show this in the keynote.

00:37:42   I, I had this second on my vision OS list, but I didn't have it rated very high.

00:37:47   And my thought is this, which is one, will they show it into, will they really do that?

00:37:51   Or will there be some other like concept for apps?

00:37:55   And I don't, or will they say, you know, there's that many apps, it's not that big a deal.

00:37:59   We'll just leave them in alphabetical order for a little while longer.

00:38:02   It, they should totally do it, but will they do it?

00:38:04   And what's my confidence in them being able to do that, uh, and show it.

00:38:08   And I'm not clear how much is going to be in vision OS that this would seem to be table stakes, right?

00:38:12   And yet here we are.

00:38:13   So maybe, maybe it's, I think, I think it's not a bad choice from you.

00:38:18   I think this is a choice you need to make.

00:38:19   Yeah, this is the two vision OS picks that I had highest.

00:38:24   I do actually have some more in my shortlist, but it was yours and mine.

00:38:28   Yeah.

00:38:28   Yeah.

00:38:29   Well, I hope it happens.

00:38:30   I mean, really, it needs to happen.

00:38:32   It's really annoying.

00:38:33   Also, I think that the vision OS apps list is too small on top of that.

00:38:38   Like it takes a little tiny field of view.

00:38:40   Like you can have, you can have more apps there too.

00:38:43   Yeah.

00:38:43   Especially because of the amount of effort it takes to get to the fourth page.

00:38:48   Right.

00:38:49   Yeah.

00:38:50   I know so many swipes.

00:38:51   Big action that you're taking each time.

00:38:54   So it would be nicer to have some kind of, and maybe that's what they'll do, right?

00:38:58   They'll have like a new way to do it and it would be more rearrangeable.

00:39:02   I kind of think about how, you know, you look at like the Apple watch, right?

00:39:05   Like the Apple watch had its idea of doing it and then it created a brand new idea of doing it.

00:39:09   And they have both of them, but so maybe we'll get a list is what I'm saying.

00:39:13   You know?

00:39:13   Yeah.

00:39:13   Or like an immersive view where your entire space is filled with apps and you have to swivel around to do it.

00:39:18   Don't do that, Apple.

00:39:19   Don't do that.

00:39:20   You can put one over there.

00:39:21   You have to walk over to press the icon.

00:39:23   Like you're not just leave only leaving the windows.

00:39:25   No, you just have to swivel in your chair.

00:39:27   You have to be like, it's over there, right?

00:39:29   Like it's a 360 app world that you're inside.

00:39:32   You are the app icon.

00:39:33   Oh boy.

00:39:34   That sounds terrible.

00:39:35   App icon is you.

00:39:36   What is your sixth round pick Jason?

00:39:40   Well, I wrote the book on it literally.

00:39:42   And so I'm going to choose AI powered tools for editing photos, which I think is a pretty good bet.

00:39:48   Apple, I mean, everybody else is doing it.

00:39:50   Apple has really resisted doing retouching tools in photos in general.

00:39:57   Like there's not even a retouch basic retouch tool in photos for iOS, even though there has been on the Mac for a while now, the one on the Mac isn't very good.

00:40:06   I've been using photo mater for years to do this photo mater does a great job.

00:40:11   It's got, you know, AI enhance.

00:40:13   Also, I'll say there's probably some machine learning stuff that's already in photos that they'll label.

00:40:18   Right.

00:40:18   They're like, oh, it's an enhance.

00:40:19   That's really just an improved enhance of what they already did, but they can call it ML.

00:40:24   But anyway, so I just think there will be ways in the photos app.

00:40:27   It's one of the most straightforward ways to shout out AI.

00:40:30   They've been using AI tools and photos for years.

00:40:32   They may say that they may like photos has had AI tools in it for 10 years because it kind of has.

00:40:38   Um, but I do think that they have to do that thing where you can eat.

00:40:43   It'll either be smart retouching of like skin, or it'll be remove a person in the background, but, but it's, or it'll be like an AI adjustment where it's like they call it out and say, oh, we can, we can, you know, use AI to adjust your photo to make it look good or fill a particular kind of mood or like there'll be stuff like that in there.

00:41:03   I really think so.

00:41:05   That's why I'm going to pick it.

00:41:05   That was actually going to be my pick.

00:41:09   That was the one that this is awkward for me.

00:41:11   Like I bumped my vision OS pick above this one.

00:41:14   So I think this is a good one.

00:41:16   Mike, this was going to be my pick last time and then I got too scared about iOS.

00:41:19   So I picked the iOS pick and see strategy.

00:41:21   It's happening.

00:41:22   It's happening.

00:41:23   And this, this is a fun, this is a fun game play for WWDC.

00:41:26   But yeah, I think that this is.

00:41:29   As far as AI stuff goes.

00:41:34   Any, an easy one for them to do something in, I don't imagine them going as hard as Google has.

00:41:41   I would be surprised if they had like a add stuff to this image.

00:41:47   Yeah.

00:41:48   I think it's going to be more like, I mean, like literally I know that these are the demos, but like literally I had a photo when we went to Hawaii a few years ago that I used that, that was my, my wife and daughter on a beach.

00:42:00   And there was some guy walking in the background and I was like, goodbye, take that guy out.

00:42:05   And photo made her did, you know, I just really circled him and then photo made her replaced him and he was gone.

00:42:09   That is.

00:42:10   Great.

00:42:12   It makes your, I know it's technically you're manipulating your phone, whatever.

00:42:15   Like it made a unusable photo usable.

00:42:18   And, um, that's the stuff they need to do, but I agree.

00:42:22   There's probably not going to be like circle, select the sky and tell it to be nighttime or like, I don't think it's going to do stuff or put a unicorn.

00:42:30   Somewhere.

00:42:31   Right.

00:42:31   Like, no, I don't think it's going to do any of that stuff.

00:42:33   Do you think they would do something like the best take feature where you could change people's heads?

00:42:39   I think it's possible that they will do something like that, where you take a burst and then it, it tries to merge them together into the best, into the best take out of the merge out of pieces of the merge.

00:42:49   Because I felt like they take so many photos anyway.

00:42:51   Right.

00:42:52   Like they're taking like tons and tons and tons.

00:42:54   So.

00:42:55   Where every time you take a photo, they take like nine photos.

00:42:58   Would not surprise.

00:42:59   I mean, they already do that.

00:43:00   Right.

00:43:00   But would they add a little layer where they, where they offer you again, my guess is they wouldn't just do it.

00:43:06   They would like offer you an upgraded version.

00:43:08   That's using as somebody who sat in Photoshop.

00:43:10   I've got a poster in my living room of my kids on the, one of the lions at Trafalgar square.

00:43:17   And it is literally made up of three different stills that I took because none of them was quite right.

00:43:23   And I put them together like, huh?

00:43:26   I'd really like it if my photos app could do that and be like, Oh yeah, here's your kids where they're both smiling.

00:43:30   And, and like I had to, I had to bodge that together myself.

00:43:34   So it would be really great if that feature was there, even if it was just an option where Apple was like, you know, none of these looked great, but I put them together for you.

00:43:45   That would be fine.

00:43:45   The one for me is blinking.

00:43:48   Yeah.

00:43:49   That's what I would want to be.

00:43:50   Blinking, smiling, whatever it is.

00:43:51   And some of that can be detected actually when you're taking the photo, but yeah, to, to be able to analyze.

00:43:55   Take a burst, even if you don't, even if you generally just throw it away and analyze it, analyze the faces and try to make sure that the faces are all looking at the camera or, you know, smiling or whatever you're not blinking.

00:44:07   That would be great.

00:44:09   You know, I don't think you need to do a burst.

00:44:11   Like look at life photos.

00:44:13   Well, life photos is lower resolution than the actual photo, but they do.

00:44:16   It's gotten better over time though.

00:44:18   Yeah, it's better, but it's not the resolution of the full photo.

00:44:21   And I think that's what Apple would want to do, but you could definitely take multiples.

00:44:25   As a burst or as a secret burst that you then process, right?

00:44:29   Which is what they do anyway.

00:44:30   They're already taking multiples.

00:44:31   So imagine them taking multiples.

00:44:33   They could even use, and they might even brag about it.

00:44:36   Like use the accelerometer on the camera to realize that you're holding the camera still and, and analyzing the photo.

00:44:42   So you know that this is basically the same photo in the very, in a very short window and just keep capturing as long as you're, you're holding the camera up so that you can do those merges.

00:44:52   There's lots of smart stuff they could do to solve a problem, right?

00:44:55   Because this is, when we talk about AI, so much AI hype is about a solution in search of a problem.

00:45:02   The, this is a real problem.

00:45:03   And I know that Google and others have done work in this area, a lot of work in this area and Apple hasn't, but like it doesn't change the fact that it is a problem that needs, that would help people to have a solution, a usable photo for your Christmas card.

00:45:18   Because both your kids have their eyes open in the picture, even though when you press the lens or the shutter, one of them had their eyes closed, but a second later they opened it and the system recognized that and you were still holding steady.

00:45:31   Like that is a huge solution that yeah, right now you can use somebody else's platform for it, or you can do what I do, which is have to bring it into Photoshop and align the images and then try to blend them.

00:45:42   And it's a, I mean, it took me like an hour to get that photo ready for the poster that's on our wall in our living room.

00:45:48   So yeah, let's make it happen.

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00:47:07   Alright, so our next pick, we're into round number seven now.

00:47:13   Oh boy, I'm going to rip off the bandaid.

00:47:18   Apple announces partnership with OpenAI for AI features.

00:47:24   Wow.

00:47:26   It's been heavily reported.

00:47:28   Yes.

00:47:30   To the point where since we last recorded, I think the information reported that like the deal is done.

00:47:36   Yep.

00:47:37   The shape of this, I don't know, really.

00:47:40   And I think we're going to have to wait and see how much would they took, would they even mention it?

00:47:44   We don't know.

00:47:45   I think they will for all of the reasons that it makes sense to talk about AI at all, right?

00:47:55   Whether you like them or hate them, OpenAI have the market at the moment, like it's theirs.

00:48:00   They are kind of synonymous with the AI moment.

00:48:04   People know who they are.

00:48:05   Sure.

00:48:06   They are obviously the leader in some metrics.

00:48:11   They are the company that I think kind of kicked off where we are and are ahead in a bunch of areas.

00:48:18   If Apple is going to partner with someone, I think they're going to partner with them.

00:48:23   I hope that they have more than one partnership, but I'm picking OpenAI as a partnership that they will have.

00:48:29   I think it will happen.

00:48:32   I think you'll get this point.

00:48:35   But I think they're going to, okay, they're going to play up OpenAI in the sense that they want to be recognized as using one of the leaders in this field for some features.

00:48:51   And yet I think they're going to downplay OpenAI, if that makes any sense.

00:48:55   I think they need to cite it and they want to cite it, but I don't think they're happy about it.

00:48:59   And I think it's going to be one of those things where it's like a logo on a slide or maybe even just a mention and no logo.

00:49:07   I don't personally, I don't expect that we're going to see like a return to the stage from Mr.

00:49:15   Popcallers.

00:49:15   I don't think it's going to happen.

00:49:17   I think it's going to be like, oh, yeah.

00:49:20   And if you want, you can do this thing with OpenAI or we partner with OpenAI, so if you want to do this thing, you can do that.

00:49:26   Or Siri, if you want further information, Siri can talk to OpenAI's, to GPT.

00:49:33   They may even also just say chat GPT and not even mention OpenAI, right?

00:49:37   They might do that.

00:49:38   Like if you really want that, you can use other chat bots such as chat GPT, right?

00:49:43   And which leaves open the door that they'll make deals with Google, for example, for Gemini, right?

00:49:48   I think they're going to, so this is the thing is I think they need to do it because they want to be seen as having this play.

00:49:55   But so I think you're going to get the point, but I, I would predict the downplaying of it like that.

00:50:01   They're going to toss it off as like, cause not only do some people have strong feelings about OpenAI negatively, but also it does make Apple seem like they had to go outside for help.

00:50:10   So I think they're going to downplay it, but mention it.

00:50:13   I would say that that's most likely, especially considering the recent controversies, you know, that maybe it's a thing where, Hey, look, we're doing this, but let's not.

00:50:22   I am leaning towards them not having Sam Altman come out now, like where there was a point where I think that was a definite.

00:50:29   I know, don't think that will happen, but I can imagine them saying that, Hey, and when you want to do this, it goes out to our partner OpenAI or one of our partners, including OpenAI.

00:50:38   And now that it's not a stage show, there's no come out on stage anymore, right?

00:50:42   You would have to, you would have to make a much more integrated thing with a partner to have them in your video, which you could also take out later.

00:50:48   Um, I think that maybe, maybe Sam Altman comes on stage, maybe if it's a live show at the Steve Jobs theater, but it's not.

00:50:56   And so I think that it won't happen that way.

00:50:58   I mean, I'm not saying I guarantee it like anything could happen, but I wouldn't put money on it for sure.

00:51:05   All right.

00:51:07   With my pick number seven, um, I'm going to go with AI enhancements to iWork apps.

00:51:12   Oh, I feel like this is a quick win for Apple to say, you know, we'll let you, uh, start a business document and pages or pages will prompt you and put some things in there, or they'll suggest a next paragraph for you or some of this basic text to generative AI, or there's something in keynote.

00:51:32   Like you could be say like, you know, build me, you know, build me some bullet points about this or build me a slide deck about this.

00:51:38   I just, I feel like there's something, uh, an AI related thing that they can roll into an app.

00:51:43   Honestly, I think it's easier for them to roll AI stuff into apps than the OS anyway.

00:51:47   And so being able to do that, my, my guess would be, it's going to be some tech stuff in pages.

00:51:53   Cause that's the easiest thing for them to do.

00:51:55   So I don't feel super confident about this, but like it, it among what's out there.

00:52:01   I think that this is one of the more, we're at the point now where my confidence level has dropped and I'm just trying a bunch of stuff that I think is possible, but not necessarily at the highest rate of likelihood.

00:52:11   I didn't really think about this one, to be honest.

00:52:16   I, I see what you're saying, especially in pages, but I wonder if they will have any enhancements that are specific to these apps that wouldn't just work in any app, you know?

00:52:30   Well, I mean, I guess that's a question I, I, if, I mean, my argument would be that if they say you can generate auto-generate a paragraph in pages or notes, that it still counts because it's in pages.

00:52:44   Yeah, yeah, it would, but I'm wondering if they would do that, you know, that that's the thing.

00:52:48   It's like, if it's just tech generation, it's like, you can just do it wherever you write your things, you know?

00:52:52   I like this pick.

00:52:53   I think it's okay.

00:52:54   My eighth round pick is that some AI features will be labeled as coming next year.

00:53:01   Ooh.

00:53:02   All right.

00:53:03   I think it's a little bit risky.

00:53:05   I think it's, it could very well happen only because coming next year is a tough one, right?

00:53:11   Like they would rather not, they would rather say late later this year and then announce at the end of the year, oh, that'll actually be coming in the spring, but will they just come up right up and say coming next year?

00:53:24   Maybe they will.

00:53:25   Maybe that that's what it's going to take.

00:53:27   So I think it's a really good, a good gamble to take here.

00:53:31   Here's what I imagine for this is like, there's some feature where like, and we want to show you a preview of something we have coming next year.

00:53:38   Could be.

00:53:38   That's what I think.

00:53:40   And this is just leaning into, do I believe that they were caught out?

00:53:45   And the answer is yes.

00:53:46   And so I expect that there will be at least something that they will want to show because they're impressed by it.

00:53:53   They think it's cool, but they just straight up know it's not coming this time.

00:53:57   Or it's something that will only run on certain hardware that they want to make sure is well seated before they release it.

00:54:04   You know, maybe it is something that will just run on the next iPhone.

00:54:08   So there's no point shipping it when iOS ships.

00:54:11   So they'll just say it'll come next year.

00:54:12   Yeah, I think it absolutely could.

00:54:14   I, what made me hesitate to pick this and I had it on my longer list of possibilities.

00:54:18   What made me hesitate is them not saying, no, no, no, it's happening now.

00:54:24   They might not want to admit it, right?

00:54:25   Yeah, they might not want to admit it.

00:54:26   Yep.

00:54:27   Okay.

00:54:27   I'm going to choose AI powered transcription in notes slash voice memos.

00:54:32   This is rumored.

00:54:33   It's, it's a fairly straightforward thing to expand transcription to other places so that if you leave yourself a voice memo, it comes back as text.

00:54:43   Um, or maybe even syncs to notes or something, right?

00:54:46   Like maybe there's actually once you can make voice memos into text, maybe you could just do that there, or you could just leave a voice memo and notes.

00:54:53   But this is the idea of making audio system-wide audio that contains spoken word into the words so that you can search them and see them.

00:55:02   So I think that this is a, a pretty likely scenario.

00:55:07   My ninth round pick.

00:55:10   I'm picking my iPad pick cause I'm getting scared.

00:55:13   Okay.

00:55:14   Which I hate this pick, but it's the only thing that I could kind of imagine.

00:55:20   And it leads back for what you were saying earlier of like sometimes the iPhone gets the thing and then the next year the iPad gets a thing.

00:55:27   Last year, the iPhone got standby mode.

00:55:30   And I think especially with the new OLED iPads, it would be kind of cool for my iPad to have something on the screen where even when I'm not using it.

00:55:41   And my hope would be that it wouldn't necessarily be when, just when the iPad is charging that they might come up with something else for the iPad.

00:55:50   Um, but some kind of standby mode for iPadOS is something I could maybe see happening.

00:55:56   I would love it.

00:55:57   I would love it.

00:55:58   I would love it.

00:55:59   I don't think it's going to happen.

00:56:00   I'd have some widgets.

00:56:01   Wouldn't it be great to be able to take an iPad and especially an OLED iPad, you know, and have it also be your status board when you're not using it.

00:56:10   Wouldn't that be nice?

00:56:11   Because I feel like what you could do here is you just put it on the OLED ones and say it's a standby mode, but essentially it's always on display.

00:56:20   Yeah.

00:56:21   Right.

00:56:22   So that's what I would love.

00:56:23   I think it'd be so cool.

00:56:24   Mm hmm.

00:56:25   I agree.

00:56:26   I love it.

00:56:27   I don't.

00:56:28   Yeah.

00:56:29   I have not a lot of confidence.

00:56:30   I don't think it's going to happen either.

00:56:31   I'm trying to, you know, we have rules here.

00:56:32   You got to do it.

00:56:33   This is the rules, right?

00:56:34   You got to make an iPad pick here.

00:56:35   Uh huh.

00:56:36   All right.

00:56:37   So my ninth pick, I am going to choose, uh, some iPhone AI features are limited to the

00:56:46   most recent pro phones.

00:56:49   Yeah.

00:56:51   So this is, this is, and now they're going to have to mention it, but this is a little

00:56:54   bit like, remember when they did the stage manager stuff and they said it's only in the

00:56:58   most recent, I, uh, you know, iPad pro or whatever, or iPad air, like there was like

00:57:02   one model that could do stage manager.

00:57:05   No, it was multitasking.

00:57:06   It was, it was multitasking and they were like, no, no, we got to gate this.

00:57:09   And everybody had to buy that iPad in order to try out that feature that summer.

00:57:14   Everyone went where that was in a San Francisco year that year, that Apple store sold so many

00:57:19   iPads, including one to me.

00:57:21   I went and bought, I think it was the iPad air two or something.

00:57:24   Uh, I went and bought one because previously it was like, what was that?

00:57:28   It was almost seemed like an unchanged unneeded device.

00:57:30   Right.

00:57:31   Then it turned out, Oh, actually you have to have it for this stuff.

00:57:35   Right.

00:57:36   And so that's my theory is that I think for some of this AI, we're going to have a lot

00:57:38   of like, uh, requirements like system requirements, uh, that are going to come up, uh, and you

00:57:44   know, like Apple Silicon only for Mac and, and, uh, who knows what it'll be for iPad,

00:57:48   but I think for iPhone, my feeling is it's going to be iPhone 15 pro and later.

00:57:54   Yeah.

00:57:55   Mark Gorman.

00:57:56   And I think it was in power on last week was talking about this a little bit and I think

00:57:59   his thinking was it would be the 15 pro phones would get some features and then all 16 phones.

00:58:08   Right.

00:58:09   Oh yeah.

00:58:10   Yeah.

00:58:11   Yeah.

00:58:12   I think going forward, they're going to have to put it on everything, but for 15, it might

00:58:13   be limited.

00:58:14   Just the pro, which again gives the summer for people to test these features with a 15

00:58:17   pro, which is important.

00:58:18   Otherwise, why, why announce a feature that doesn't run on current hardware?

00:58:22   It doesn't make sense.

00:58:23   But I, in that scenario, I would be, I think a little bit disappointed that it wouldn't

00:58:29   run on the regular 15.

00:58:30   Sure.

00:58:31   That, that I think would be, you know, a little bit where I'm like, what are you doing over

00:58:36   there?

00:58:37   Like really, what are you doing?

00:58:38   You know, like what is going on here?

00:58:40   Were you really that, you know what I'm like, is it that far behind?

00:58:43   Like if you're going to say these features only run on pro devices, fine.

00:58:47   You know what I mean?

00:58:48   They'll run on pro devices, but how did we get to a scenario where you released a phone

00:58:51   and then nine months later released features that couldn't run on it?

00:58:54   Like how did you get yourself into this situation?

00:58:57   You know, that, that would be the question I would have to ask.

00:59:00   Like I think that would be, it would be weird to me.

00:59:04   All right.

00:59:05   My 10th round pick, I'm picking my Mac OS back.

00:59:09   Oh yay.

00:59:10   Hey, here it goes.

00:59:11   Can't wait.

00:59:12   And this one purely comes from a please fix this Apple.

00:59:16   It's been so many years and I don't know why we're still in this mess.

00:59:20   Redesigned notification center in Mac OS.

00:59:23   Just show me more than three notifications.

00:59:25   You know?

00:59:26   That's all I really want.

00:59:28   Just go back to what it used to be like when I would click the date and it would show me

00:59:32   all my notifications in the list.

00:59:34   Why do you just show me three when I can now put widgets wherever I want?

00:59:38   Who's putting widgets there anymore?

00:59:39   Anywhere they all go on their desktop.

00:59:41   Okay.

00:59:42   Just show me my notifications.

00:59:43   All right.

00:59:44   It is just showing more notifications enough to get you this pick?

00:59:47   Cause that's not a redesign to just list more.

00:59:49   Well, I think so.

00:59:50   I mean, I think it's a new notification center, right?

00:59:53   Like it looks different.

00:59:55   I don't know.

00:59:57   You tell me.

00:59:58   I mean, I mean, we can change it.

01:00:00   This again, just gentlemen's agreement.

01:00:02   Uh, yeah, we can do that or you could change it to be like update to notification center,

01:00:08   but let's leave it.

01:00:09   We know what it means, right?

01:00:10   I'll, I'll give you that if it's just like, it's been this way for so many years.

01:00:14   If it's no longer this way, that's a redesign.

01:00:16   You know?

01:00:17   I'll give it to you.

01:00:18   I'll give it to you.

01:00:19   They will need to call out notification center in Mac OS and say that it's been improved

01:00:23   essentially.

01:00:24   That's the key, right?

01:00:25   It's like, we need to see in the video because it's a keynote, the notification center has

01:00:29   changed.

01:00:30   They may have like a detail page somewhere that shows notification center, but if they

01:00:33   don't say or show on a slide, Oh, we redesigned notification center, which honestly, my feeling

01:00:38   is this year, if they do literally anything on Mac OS, it will be in a slide because they

01:00:42   won't have that much.

01:00:43   Yeah.

01:00:44   I could imagine that one of those bento slides and it's like notifications and what was your

01:00:49   pick, uh, that we could, Oh, settings, system settings, redesign, you know, blah, blah,

01:00:55   blah, blah.

01:00:56   If that at all.

01:00:57   All right.

01:00:58   I am going to make a surprisingly an iOS pick, even though, uh, I was afraid of, I, well,

01:01:05   my first pick was, uh, or no, I made an iOS pick late in round three, right?

01:01:09   So I'm going to go back there cause I am now in my lower rounds as we both are.

01:01:14   And sometimes you just got to pick things that are maybe a little more risky.

01:01:17   And so I'm going to pick another Mark Gurman rumor that I, uh, I'm thinking of David Smith

01:01:22   as I, as I do this too is a topographic maps added to maps in iOS.

01:01:27   So they're already on the watch, um, for, but for hiking and things like that on, uh,

01:01:33   on when you just got your iPhone with you at a topo map.

01:01:36   So it's a rumor.

01:01:37   I like the idea.

01:01:38   They've already got the data set, so let's do it.

01:01:42   Why not?

01:01:43   Right.

01:01:44   So I'm going to pick one, Apple watch, uh, watch OS, the latest watch OS.

01:01:48   You can do that.

01:01:49   You can see a topo map.

01:01:50   Yeah.

01:01:51   Yeah.

01:01:52   All right.

01:01:53   I mean, okay.

01:01:54   I can, I can be on board with this one.

01:01:55   This wasn't one that I had in my short list.

01:01:57   I think I missed that Mark Gurman, I picked that actually, but I still don't think that

01:02:01   I would have gone with this one.

01:02:03   Yeah.

01:02:04   There's, there's a rumor about a couple new maps features.

01:02:06   Uh, and I found this one felt a little more likely than the other one, but I really was

01:02:12   just grasping at straws at that point.

01:02:14   Because this to me feels like one of those things, like what you were mentioning.

01:02:19   Would this, would this make it into the keynote?

01:02:23   Bento box, uh, animation or an aside that says, Oh yeah.

01:02:26   And maps on iOS is getting a lot of our great maps features from, you know, whatever.

01:02:32   Yeah.

01:02:33   Whatever.

01:02:34   Indeed.

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01:04:23   We now move in to round number 11.

01:04:28   I'm going to go back to AI here and say AI improvements to Spotlight search.

01:04:37   Alright, okay.

01:04:39   Interesting.

01:04:40   I feel like this is one of those ones where it's an easy call out for them to talk about

01:04:46   how the power of our new AI system has been easier than ever to find things on your devices.

01:04:52   I feel like Spotlight is something that they have called out multiple times with Siri and

01:04:58   intelligence improving over the years and/or there will be new things that are going to

01:05:03   be in Spotlight that weren't there before made possible by the power of AI.

01:05:08   So that's why I think we're going to see improvements to Spotlight.

01:05:11   It feels like an easy one to make even for them to say like, "Hey, using the power of

01:05:15   our AI system, we know what you're looking for and can surface content for you in Spotlight."

01:05:20   Maybe Spotlight is going to become more of a home, a hub than it has been before.

01:05:25   Okay.

01:05:26   Alright.

01:05:27   I think it's definitely possible there are things that they could do in Spotlight.

01:05:30   It's a good place to pour AI stuff, right?

01:05:33   It's literally a prompt that you type things in and so you can put all sorts of different

01:05:39   AI generated things in there if you wanted to.

01:05:42   You know, earlier on you were talking about those like notes, voice memo, transcription

01:05:47   thing.

01:05:48   You might be able to search that from Spotlight, right?

01:05:51   You search a thing and using the power of AI can search inside of other stuff you have

01:05:55   in the system.

01:05:56   It already does that, right?

01:05:58   So that would be a logical, like if it's just translating it, then it would have access

01:06:02   to all those transcripts.

01:06:03   It's an interesting idea.

01:06:04   And again, it's one of these things where it's like, yeah, they're kind of doing it,

01:06:07   but they don't say it's AI that does it right now.

01:06:09   So maybe they'll say it's AI that does it now, you know?

01:06:11   Yeah, exactly.

01:06:12   Exactly.

01:06:13   Just like photo editing.

01:06:14   Alright, I'm going to stay on the AI train too, and I'm going to say that they're going

01:06:17   to have some sort of message composition in mail using AI.

01:06:24   "I'll reply to this message, which is jolly," that kind of stuff.

01:06:27   Yeah, the Google, yeah, yeah, here's an emoji.

01:06:31   Just respond with an emoji.

01:06:32   We can do that.

01:06:33   Now, I mean, my idea here is Google already has started to do this with Gmail.

01:06:39   It's the idea that you can analyze the message that came in and you're doing a reply and

01:06:46   it's going to suggest something more than like a word or a sentence.

01:06:48   It's going to say, you know, maybe give you options or maybe just sort of give you a grayed

01:06:54   out kind of like, would you like this basic reply?

01:06:58   And people will be annoyed by it and maybe it'll be turned off.

01:07:01   But like, this is, it's actually a place that's gained traction.

01:07:05   I think there are a lot of people who appreciate the fact that if I'm replying to a message,

01:07:12   that it knows what you want to say, especially in some contexts.

01:07:15   And you can be like, yep, that's exactly what I want to say.

01:07:18   Or pick from like, yes or no, and it writes a yes or no for you about like, no, I'm sorry,

01:07:22   I can't do that or great, that sounds great, let's do it.

01:07:26   And not have to worry about it.

01:07:27   I don't personally like that, but I feel like that's a thing that you could demo and explain

01:07:31   why it solves a problem and explain why Apple has taken great care in what it does and its

01:07:36   existing technology that everybody has seen.

01:07:39   So you know, we're at the ends of the draft now, but I think that's one place that they

01:07:44   could add some AI seasoning fairly easily.

01:07:46   - Yeah, I was just thinking as you're talking then, right, about like mail is an interesting

01:07:50   thing because there is an entire amount of large language of your own, right, that they

01:07:55   could learn from to build these things.

01:07:59   But then it made me think about like, if they're doing this kind of stuff on device, right,

01:08:04   like that they're gonna use their systems to kind of train on your data, how hot are

01:08:10   these phones gonna get every time you get a new one?

01:08:12   Like how much of this stuff is passed from phone to phone?

01:08:16   And if they're gonna train on your information, like the setup process where the phone, the

01:08:22   battery life is terrible and the phone runs hot for a bit, like I feel like that is just

01:08:27   gonna get worse and worse with some of these things.

01:08:30   So it's gonna be interesting to see how they handle that.

01:08:32   - Yeah, they're gonna need to be much more intelligent about sort of like, when do you

01:08:35   run those tasks and don't run them in certain circumstances, but people want those features

01:08:40   right away, but you're like, yeah, but I can't run the phone when it's on battery and I need

01:08:44   to regulate the heat and all of those things about it.

01:08:46   But you're right, it'll happen.

01:08:48   - Twelfth and final pick.

01:08:50   - Yeah.

01:08:51   - Ooh, I have seven things here left and I'm trying to decide which of these I wanna go

01:08:58   for.

01:08:59   Ooh boy.

01:09:00   I'm gonna make a VisionOS pick.

01:09:01   - Oh, okay.

01:09:02   - Because I don't want it to just be another AI pick.

01:09:16   So like, I'm just gonna put this out there so you can take it if you want to.

01:09:19   The pick that I had next like in my list was autocomplete, expand into complete sentences,

01:09:26   right?

01:09:27   Like I feel like that is a very likely thing, but I don't wanna pick that.

01:09:30   I wanna pick something different.

01:09:32   And so I'm gonna go with multiple Mac displays in VisionOS.

01:09:36   - Oh, I had that on my list.

01:09:38   That was one of my possible picks here because I think that that's actually a decent chance

01:09:42   of happening, multiple Mac displays.

01:09:45   - If they've put work into VisionOS, which I do believe they will have, and I hope that

01:09:51   they've prioritized it, even with all the other things going on, this feels like a thing

01:09:56   to add that people would really dig.

01:10:00   And we have heard that this is running inside of Apple, at least somewhere, right?

01:10:07   Like that this is a thing that they've been trying.

01:10:10   And I would love for them to find a way to handle this.

01:10:13   So I could have two displays on my Mac and two Mac displays inside of VisionOS that I

01:10:19   would be able to use.

01:10:21   I think it would be able to increase productivity, even if they did a thing, and I don't know

01:10:25   how I would feel about this, we'd have to just score it.

01:10:27   Like you could just have Mac apps that are like their own displays or whatever inside

01:10:32   of VisionOS.

01:10:33   But I would like to see them have multiple monitors that I could use inside of my Vision

01:10:38   Pro.

01:10:39   - I like it.

01:10:40   - That's my final pick.

01:10:41   - Wow, okay.

01:10:42   - I'm left with the dregs now, 'cause that might've been my pick.

01:10:53   I just hate the idea that what I choose here might determine who wins and loses, right?

01:10:57   Like 'cause it's here at the end.

01:10:58   - Well, every pick is that, right?

01:10:59   Every pick is that.

01:11:00   - I know, it's true, but it's just, oh wow.

01:11:05   I'm going to pick, out of left field, more information on CarPlay.

01:11:13   - Oh, wow.

01:11:16   See, now this would be interesting.

01:11:20   I like this, I like this.

01:11:22   - It's in our list, and it literally is more information on CarPlay.

01:11:27   What does that mean?

01:11:28   It means that at some point they're going to say something about CarPlay that isn't

01:11:32   CarPlay exists.

01:11:33   That they're going to be like, we did this thing to CarPlay, or we've got CarPlay 2 and

01:11:38   more people are adopting it, or it's going great.

01:11:41   You know, if it's just a restatement of existing things, it's not more information.

01:11:45   But if it's literally, this is one of those like CarPlay mentioned with a little bit of

01:11:50   an asterisk is basically what this is, which is, give me something about CarPlay, something

01:11:56   about CarPlay.

01:11:59   - The reason I find this one particularly interesting is it was, I don't know, two or

01:12:02   three years ago now that they showed off next generation CarPlay.

01:12:06   And what has become exceedingly obvious over this amount of time is no car makers want

01:12:09   to do this, except for like one.

01:12:12   More and more car makers, and Neil Iapitel keeps interviewing car makers and car CEOs

01:12:18   on Dakota, and he keeps asking them, and they're all saying they don't want to do it.

01:12:21   I think Mercedes Benz were the most recent to say no, which I think means for Apple to

01:12:28   improve CarPlay, they actually need to take it in a different direction because the direction

01:12:34   that they want it to go down, which is like, hey, we're the operating system in the car,

01:12:38   car manufacturers don't want that.

01:12:39   And they run risk, I think, of CarPlay being dropped.

01:12:44   And I think that Apple needs to maybe make, you know, to save face a little bit that this

01:12:50   is an option, but that there is a new version of CarPlay which looks like that, but doesn't

01:12:56   necessarily require that you give over the dials of the car.

01:13:00   Yeah, I think most of that already exists in CarPlay.

01:13:03   They have support for multiple displays and different shaped displays and all of that.

01:13:06   But yeah, maybe it's a statement about like a change in direction.

01:13:09   I don't know.

01:13:10   I mean, my pick here really is that they often talk about CarPlay WWDC because it does get

01:13:13   updated when iOS gets updated and it is strategically important to them.

01:13:17   So do they mention it and give more information in some way?

01:13:20   I'm going to put down that they will because they sometimes do.

01:13:24   Mm-hmm.

01:13:26   That's the draft.

01:13:27   I feel the most uncertain about this draft than I have in a while, which makes me think

01:13:33   that this rule change was a pretty good one.

01:13:35   Yeah.

01:13:36   Like, I just feel like there it made it a bit more frantic feeling that I felt like

01:13:41   I had to make picks that I didn't want to make at the point that I was making them,

01:13:45   right?

01:13:46   Leaving other stuff on the table.

01:13:47   That's a good thing.

01:13:48   I mean, and it was gentle, right?

01:13:49   It was only five mandatory categories out of 12 picks.

01:13:51   So it was gentle, but it still added a little bit of that feeling.

01:13:54   Mm-hmm.

01:13:55   I like it.

01:13:56   We'll muse about it for next time about whether this is, it may only make sense for certain

01:14:01   kinds of events like WWDC.

01:14:02   I think WWDC, it may only really make sense for it because it is the only keynote where

01:14:09   we can feel somewhat confident about what's going to be there, right?

01:14:14   Because they say in advance, you're going to hear about this, this, this, this, and

01:14:17   this, right?

01:14:18   From an operating system standpoint.

01:14:19   Even if they don't share a lot of stuff during it, but like any September event, we don't

01:14:23   know if it's going to be any more than the iPhone.

01:14:25   One of the motivations for doing it this way also, in addition to just sort of like spicing

01:14:28   it up a little, like we said is, um, Mike originally did this draft as a, as more hard

01:14:33   and fast categories.

01:14:35   And I felt like the problem is that almost everything's going to be an AI announcement

01:14:38   and that everything else is on the sidelines and there's no hardware and there's no like,

01:14:43   and I thought, well, that's really boring if we have three AI picks and then a whole

01:14:47   bunch of things that we don't think are really going to happen.

01:14:50   And so we led, it led to the sort of this more flexible format and I like it.

01:14:54   I kind of like it.

01:14:55   I don't know, depending on rumors, we might do something like this for other events, right?

01:14:59   Where if we feel like there's really only kind of two things or whatever, but for WWDC,

01:15:04   especially this year, it seemed like the right way to go.

01:15:07   Yeah, definitely.

01:15:08   This is a conversation, a really good conversation we had during Upgrade Plus.

01:15:11   Yeah.

01:15:12   Oh yes.

01:15:13   You got to, everybody got to hear all the details in Upgrade Plus last week, by the

01:15:16   way, in Upgrade Plus this week, there is, if you're, if you're asking what happened

01:15:21   to the, uh, guess what macOS California feature is going to get the name, uh, for macOS next

01:15:27   year, we have moved that into a separate but related competition that will be in Upgrade

01:15:31   Plus.

01:15:32   Do you want to say what it's called?

01:15:34   The California Bear Trophy.

01:15:36   The California Bear Trophy will be decided in Upgrade Plus.

01:15:39   Go to getupgradeplus.com to sign up if you haven't already and thank you for your support.

01:15:43   I would just say, like I'll say it here too, if you've ever supported us or if you currently

01:15:47   do, uh, this is basically around the time that we launched the Upgrade Plus in 2020.

01:15:54   So I just want to thank everyone for their support, whether you have ever been a member

01:15:58   or you are one right now, we genuinely really appreciate it.

01:16:03   Before we wrap up this week, we said we would talk about, and I want to talk about a little

01:16:07   bit more about what if, the VisionOS experience.

01:16:12   We've written a review about it, because we were a little bit constrained about what we

01:16:16   could talk about last time.

01:16:17   Um, and I just wanted to follow up and just say, like, I just had such a good time with

01:16:21   this.

01:16:22   Like I, as a huge Marvel fan, this was incredible for me.

01:16:28   I got goosebumps on three separate occasions going through the what if experience.

01:16:33   Like even just at the beginning when you're inside the Marvel Studios logo, it's like,

01:16:38   oh, so cool.

01:16:39   Yeah, they have a moment where you're actually flying, as the Marvel is flying out, you're

01:16:42   in, you're inside it.

01:16:44   It's very funny.

01:16:45   You're in it.

01:16:46   Very funny.

01:16:47   Um, yeah, this is just, it was really great.

01:16:48   And I think that this is kind of, for me, the perfect kind of encapsulation of what

01:16:54   Vision Pro is capable of from a, all the senses that it has, you know, like the fact that,

01:17:01   you know, where the portals that one comes from and the space and the fact that they're

01:17:05   always looking at you, I thought was really interesting.

01:17:08   Um, every is sitting up or like standing up, sitting down, like the characters are always

01:17:14   looking at you.

01:17:15   Like it's just like a lot of really interesting technology that's going on here.

01:17:19   And just like the hand tracking for the spell casting is very good.

01:17:22   The spatial audio, incredible for like, there's just one part where you're having to like

01:17:27   shoot from your hand, like kind of like some kind of spell to destroy these aliens or whatever.

01:17:34   And the spatial audio will indicate to you where they're shooting at you from.

01:17:37   So you can turn around, you got shield, like it's, it's very, it's very active in the moments

01:17:43   that it is active, but by and large is a passive experience, right?

01:17:46   As you said in your review, it's not a game.

01:17:50   There's game like elements within a story.

01:17:52   So I was thinking about it and, and, uh, had come to this conclusion and then I saw David

01:17:55   Smith post on Macedon about it too, which is like, it feels like an amusement park ride.

01:17:59   That is how I would say it is.

01:18:01   It's like one of those interactive amusement park rides a little bit where like you're

01:18:04   on rails and you know, whether you shoot at the Spiderman villains or at Buzz Lightyear

01:18:09   targets or whatever, like as you're going through, it doesn't really matter.

01:18:12   The story continues to go, you know, you, at the most, the story won't progress until

01:18:17   you do the thing, but it's not like you can get shot and die and then the thing doesn't

01:18:20   happen.

01:18:21   Like that's not what it is.

01:18:22   So it's very on rails.

01:18:24   Um, and I came out at the end thinking, yeah, it's basically like an hour long amusement

01:18:30   park ride, which is pretty cool because most of those amusement park rides are very short.

01:18:35   Uh, but that's what it was kind of like.

01:18:36   And it was a fun experience.

01:18:37   It's not a game, nor is it a video.

01:18:39   It is this intermediate step.

01:18:42   And uh, yeah, I had a lot of fun with it.

01:18:44   I think it's built obviously to show off the vision pros features.

01:18:47   So it's leaning into all the things that vision pro can do, including augmented reality and

01:18:51   environments, some really beautiful environment design that they do, uh, and hand tracking.

01:18:56   So yeah,

01:18:57   the, and the performances are really good too.

01:19:00   Like just in general, like the visuals, the audio, the acting, right.

01:19:04   There's just like good performances all around.

01:19:06   Like this is the kind of thing too, where I could imagine like, all right, so you've

01:19:09   built this, could there be another one?

01:19:11   Right.

01:19:12   Like I hope there will be right.

01:19:13   Like you build this technology and you could have periodic releases of new episodes of

01:19:19   this what if story.

01:19:21   Um, I liked it.

01:19:23   The choreography was really good, um, which is an interesting challenge cause there's

01:19:27   like fighting that's occurring between superheroes and Europe, like playing a part in it.

01:19:32   They have to do it in such a way that the fight can continue to occur even if you're

01:19:35   taking a while to do a thing.

01:19:37   So like just from a direction standpoint is really good.

01:19:41   Um, before we wrap up on this, I want to talk about the end part.

01:19:45   So if you don't want to be spoiled for the end of the what if experience, you can skip

01:19:51   to the next chapter now.

01:19:54   All right.

01:19:55   The moment where the watcher shows you the two sets of stones and you get to snap all

01:20:02   my, I was just so excited about that.

01:20:07   Like that genius.

01:20:10   One legitimate choose your own adventure moment and the whole thing there because I talked

01:20:14   to them about it.

01:20:15   There's a couple of mentions of it in the, in my story.

01:20:18   Um, I talked to the, the, the interaction designer and he admitted like, yeah, we can't

01:20:22   do branching where we've got like 80 different scenes and a user only plays three of them

01:20:27   because each of them is incredibly expensive.

01:20:30   So they have them all.

01:20:31   But at the very end you get to make a choice between a and B and we won't go into the details

01:20:35   of the spoiling and then you need to make a Thanos style, a snap of your fingers in

01:20:41   order for it to happen.

01:20:43   And it is a beautifully realized moment that really gives you a, yeah, it kind of gives

01:20:47   you chills, right?

01:20:48   Cause you get to do the snap.

01:20:49   Well, it did for me because when I was like, I just snap your fingers like, Oh my God,

01:20:53   it's like, that is so good.

01:20:56   And also again, like I had no idea the vision pro could detect that.

01:21:00   I like that was impressive on its own, right?

01:21:03   That like a finger snap, it can know what that looks like or sounds like or whatever

01:21:08   that that was impressive.

01:21:10   And then yeah, we won't spot, but then there are two endings and the Easter eggs and those

01:21:14   endings are fantastic.

01:21:15   That was so good.

01:21:17   And so, yeah, it's, I really had such a great time with this.

01:21:20   I love it.

01:21:22   Like I really love it.

01:21:23   Yeah, it was good.

01:21:24   It's a, it's a fun thing.

01:21:25   Great demo, uh, shows off what the potential of vision pro is and uh, yeah, I really enjoyed

01:21:31   it.

01:21:32   All right.

01:21:33   So next week obviously we'll be WWDC.

01:21:37   You're going to be, uh, in, you're going to be at Apple park, right?

01:21:40   Uh, yeah, I'm going to be at Apple park next Monday and uh, we will record a podcast next

01:21:45   Monday.

01:21:46   I don't know where it may be back at my hotel.

01:21:47   It may be in a car.

01:21:49   It may be at somebody's house.

01:21:50   It may be at Apple park.

01:21:52   I don't know.

01:21:53   I honestly don't know, but uh, we will do it somewhere.

01:21:56   Yeah.

01:21:57   I'm going to be in London.

01:21:58   I'm not going to WWDC this year.

01:21:59   I have some family commitments.

01:22:01   I, this unfortunately fell at the exact wrong week in June for me.

01:22:04   Uh, so I can't make it, but yes, we will endeavor as we always do to record an episode as soon

01:22:10   as we possibly can.

01:22:11   And if there's anything that prevents that, we'll make sure to put it on Mastodon and

01:22:14   the members discord and stuff, but we will do everything as is human possible, humanly

01:22:19   possible to record and get our episode out as close to WWDC ending.

01:22:23   Even if I am recording it standing outside of the store down at Apple park in the press

01:22:30   area.

01:22:31   Now you see how I draw the line on that one.

01:22:32   I think I would wait for me personally, I would wait till Tuesday if we're going to

01:22:37   get that.

01:22:38   Uh, no, no more, no more car cast.

01:22:41   I don't know.

01:22:42   I think with a microphone, if it was just background noise, I think we could probably

01:22:45   do it and it would suppress it mostly.

01:22:47   Anyway, we will, I hope it won't come to that.

01:22:49   I hope it will be a little more controlled than that.

01:22:51   Genuinely, we're having this conversation.

01:22:53   If that was what it was, I would wait until Tuesday.

01:22:55   What about if it was in a secluded place outside the Steve Jobs theater where there was nobody

01:22:58   but me, but I was outside and there might've been birds.

01:23:02   I would prefer the wait.

01:23:03   Okay.

01:23:04   Well, we'll see.

01:23:05   Well, we're going to make all efforts to record on Monday in a controlled environment.

01:23:08   Yep.

01:23:09   We'll do everything we can.

01:23:10   And the sound of air.

01:23:12   I just think an important episode deserves good sounding audio.

01:23:17   Yeah.

01:23:18   I agree.

01:23:19   Too bad about this one.

01:23:20   Too bad about the roofers.

01:23:21   Yep.

01:23:22   Too bad about it.

01:23:23   But I would say the post WWDC episode is more important than the draft.

01:23:25   If such a thing could ever be imagined.

01:23:27   I agree.

01:23:28   It's true.

01:23:29   If you would like to send us in your questions, your follow up, your feedback for the show,

01:23:32   you can always do so at upgradefeedback.com.

01:23:35   You can check out Jason's work at sixcolors.com and hear his podcasts at the incomparable.com

01:23:40   and here on relay FM, where you can also hear me too.

01:23:43   And you can check out my work at cortexbrand.com.

01:23:46   You can find us on social media.

01:23:48   Jason is at J S N E double L I am at I Mike I M Y K E. You can watch video clips of the

01:23:54   show on Tik TOK, Instagram, and YouTube, but we are at upgrade relay.

01:23:59   You can also see a full video versions of the show on YouTube as well.

01:24:03   And you will see, I have a new recording area that I've put together for video.

01:24:08   So I hope people like that.

01:24:09   You can go see that on our video channels this week.

01:24:12   Thank you to our members who support us with upgrade plus thank you to our sponsors, which

01:24:16   are express VPN tail scale and Squarespace of this week's episode.

01:24:20   But most of all, thank you for listening until next time.

01:24:24   Say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:24:26   Goodbye Mike Hurley.

01:24:26   [Music]

01:24:48   [ Silence ]