00:00:08 ◼ ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 516 for June 11th 2024. This show is brought to you by
00:00:18 ◼ ► Delete.me, Unipizza Ovens, Fitbod and Vitalee. My name is Mike Hurley and I am joined by Jason Snow. Hi Jason.
00:00:27 ◼ ► Hello Mike. I'm just going to start out immediately with a Snow Talk question. Okay. So we ended up
00:00:33 ◼ ► through some scheduling difficulties needing to record a day later. Are you happy that we had this
00:00:40 ◼ ► extra time? I... six of one and a half a dozen of the other. I really like it when we are jumping right on it.
00:00:49 ◼ ► Yep. And it's like quick reaction and I feel like people, there's a certain audience that's come to
00:00:54 ◼ ► kind of expect the quick reaction right on the spot. It's all my news training from back in the
00:00:59 ◼ ► day like we're just gonna get into it right away. Yep. However, there was a lot and one of the reasons
00:01:07 ◼ ► we couldn't do this right after the keynote is that I just spent two days basically at Apple Park
00:01:13 ◼ ► and had eight different briefings after the event and got to hear more and learn some more details
00:01:27 ◼ ► When we do the quick hit right after an event, what I always think about when I'm listening to
00:01:32 ◼ ► later in the week podcasts is they get the benefit of that time and everything is topsy-turvy. ATP is
00:01:39 ◼ ► on a Monday, upgrade's on a Tuesday, Connected's on a Friday. I don't know what's going on anymore.
00:01:52 ◼ ► but it didn't work out that way and so we get the luxury of having some time to think about it.
00:01:56 ◼ ► I would say, I mean look, you know me, I really like to be early like you do too. I will say in
00:02:03 ◼ ► maybe this one instance I'm actually happy to have had the time because once WWDC finished yesterday,
00:02:10 ◼ ► I knew I could not put my feelings together and I have needed like so you know as well one of the
00:02:20 ◼ ► other reasons we can do is I couldn't make it this year and so we're on completely different time
00:02:24 ◼ ► zones so trying to find a time after your briefing days was complicated and we ended up finding this
00:02:30 ◼ ► time now but I have spent like 12 hours today going through our show document and reading and
00:02:37 ◼ ► thinking and like I've written this is I got a lot of thoughts I'm sure you do too and I think that
00:02:44 ◼ ► this WWDC maybe more than any in the 10 years longer than that that I've been covering this
00:02:52 ◼ ► professionally I think this has actually been the one that has needed the most thought because I
00:02:59 ◼ ► could see that because of the ramifications and there's a lot of emotion flying around our corner
00:03:04 ◼ ► of the internet right now in a way that is different to either a I don't like the feature
00:03:10 ◼ ► or they didn't do enough or what happened to the iPad we have like huge existential questions that
00:03:16 ◼ ► we may be wading into over the next few weeks few months and this is just the start of those
00:03:23 ◼ ► summer of existentialism oh my gosh don't even if you would like to send in a snow talk question of
00:03:32 ◼ ► your own I've been monopolizing for the last two weeks but we will get back to your questions go to
00:03:36 ◼ ► ask upgrade.com which is not usually the domain that I say but will work or you can go to upgrade
00:03:42 ◼ ► feedback.com and you can send them in there we should go through the draft results very quickly
00:03:50 ◼ ► sure so basically the the way that I have this draft I'll give the top line score and I would
00:03:58 ◼ ► say in the kindest possible scoring mostly on my side I think would be 10-9 with you as the winner
00:04:05 ◼ ► so congratulations Jason thank you the streak is over you are now your champion and I will let you
00:04:13 ◼ ► know before I even sat down so our video viewers will be able to see I have already changed the
00:04:18 ◼ ► banner in honor of you well I appreciate that you're now the challenger well I thank you these
00:04:25 ◼ ► were all pretty clear except for the one that wasn't yeah I would say we went back to the tape
00:04:31 ◼ ► even for me there was one or two where that's what I'm saying so I'll go through mine real quick so
00:04:36 ◼ ► all right Siri becomes more conversational that's something they kind of said but didn't show
00:04:40 ◼ ► um yeah but they said it but uh AI summaries of notifications and content I got yep uh free
00:04:49 ◼ ► placements of apps and widgets I got Siri can reform actions inside of apps uh AI created emoji
00:04:55 ◼ ► ability to rearrange apps in vision os AI open AI partnership uh some AI features labeled as coming
00:05:03 ◼ ► next year I didn't get standby mode for iPad or a redesign notification center in Mac OS which I've
00:05:10 ◼ ► actually heard even though they added the iPhone they still haven't changed it which is like yeah
00:05:14 ◼ ► also you've like tripled the amount of notifications I would get but still let me see three of them
00:05:19 ◼ ► the one that I think I was being kind to myself on if I was to have given myself this point which I
00:05:24 ◼ ► did but only because it didn't make a difference to the score is AI improvements to spotlight search
00:05:29 ◼ ► which kind of felt like one of those things where you can see that's going on but they don't really
00:05:34 ◼ ► well and when we talked about when we talk about safari later I'm not sure that there are any
00:05:39 ◼ ► because I think maybe what there are two different things happening and one of them is in spotlight
00:05:43 ◼ ► and that's their search engine and I'm not sure whether there's AI improvements there or not
00:05:48 ◼ ► but it doesn't matter yeah so that one is like best case scenario I gave myself this point but
00:05:55 ◼ ► if we were on a draw I would have sat and talked this out with you sure sure also can I just ask
00:06:00 ◼ ► ability to rearrange apps in in vision os was that in the keynote or was that only something we dug
00:06:06 ◼ ► up afterward uh I think it was in the keynote but even if it wasn't even if they didn't say it in
00:06:11 ◼ ► the image they weren't in the order like yeah in the images that they showed you could see there
00:06:17 ◼ ► were um they were in a different order okay yeah and what are they called the apps that are not
00:06:23 ◼ ► native apps there were some of those because they show differently oh also it was on one of the
00:06:29 ◼ ► bento slides I've been told by the discord kate says it was on one of those bento boxes okay
00:06:33 ◼ ► sounds good yeah uh and then multiple mac displays in vision os I was talking to john grouper
00:06:41 ◼ ► afterward and he said you know when mike made that pick I winced because I thought this is grouper
00:06:45 ◼ ► he's like the problem with multiple mac displays in vision os is you've got to do arrangement
00:06:50 ◼ ► and you've got to move the mouse between them and you could see it they were like you know I know
00:06:56 ◼ ► people want more of the mac but we're not going to give them multiple monitors we're just going
00:06:59 ◼ ► to give them one gigantic super wide monitor instead it's like okay all right for me I got
00:07:05 ◼ ► what I wanted though you know what I mean like more than the drop I wanted this feature and that
00:07:09 ◼ ► will work for me yeah absolutely did so for me um my number one top super strategic mac os pick that
00:07:17 ◼ ► I was sure was going to happen system settings redesigned in mac os it didn't happen so I'll ask
00:07:24 ◼ ► you did it not happen because they redesigned settings on ios I think what I would say is
00:07:30 ◼ ► they didn't do it in the keynote right like they didn't show in the keynote so it doesn't count I
00:07:34 ◼ ► don't know if they made changes to the settings app in mac os or not but it's certainly not in a
00:07:39 ◼ ► in the keynote and they didn't call out like any of the kind of major I mean maybe they tweaked it
00:07:44 ◼ ► a little bit is that a redesign I don't know so anyway that was a shocker and sad and a loser and
00:07:50 ◼ ► not auspicious at all for me to start with my number one pick not making it but I got all but
00:07:57 ◼ ► the last one I really it was really quite a sandwich here yep calculator app on ipad os new
00:08:04 ◼ ► new environments and vision os bora bora is the name of the new environment it's the beach
00:08:09 ◼ ► environment yeah the other environment remains coming soon apparently or has disappeared no it
00:08:14 ◼ ► still says coming soon it still says coming soon wonderful xcode gets ai features absolutely a bunch
00:08:19 ◼ ► of them users can change the app icon colors in ios boy can they ai powered tools for editing photos
00:08:26 ◼ ► mike i got through this we we went for an hour and like 30 minutes and i thought oh my god how have
00:08:33 ◼ ► you not announced that you can take somebody out of the background in photos how is that still not
00:08:44 ◼ ► oh boy wow that was a moment um ai enhancements to the iwork apps now this was our controversial
00:08:50 ◼ ► one but we went to the tape yep because you said well they didn't do it and i said well they
00:08:56 ◼ ► generated an image in keynote and you said well that's not really like it's a system-wide thing
00:09:00 ◼ ► and we went back to the tape and i said look if they if they say here's a text generation thing
00:09:05 ◼ ► and it works in pages and other things it still counts because it's in pages and that's essentially
00:09:09 ◼ ► what happened but with pictures and in keynote but so i got that one ai powered transcription and
00:09:15 ◼ ► notes or voice memos yes some photo some iphone ai features limited to the most recent pro phones
00:09:21 ◼ ► which i thought was one of the riskier ones here but that is exactly the limitation is the 15 pro
00:09:26 ◼ ► for all of apple intelligence topographic maps which david smith was sitting behind me and
00:09:34 ◼ ► groaned as one of his five features that got sherlock yesterday yeah ai use for message
00:09:39 ◼ ► composition in mail in many ways yes absolutely true and then it's you gotta laugh mike more
00:09:46 ◼ ► information on carplay nope there is a carplay session at wwdc but not in the keno yeah so there
00:09:56 ◼ ► is more information but it doesn't really seem like from what i've been able to glean there is
00:10:00 ◼ ► anything groundbreaking it's like hey look at all our dials i don't actually not actually sure
00:10:04 ◼ ► anyone's gonna use it still but they're showing it off now as if it's getting ready to ship so
00:10:10 ◼ ► so that that means it's 10 9 you would have the other reason that this was very contentious and
00:10:15 ◼ ► and carefully done is that you won the tie break because i set it at 150 and it was 145
00:10:20 ◼ ► basically yep um i they started they went back to tim at like 141 and i thought oh there's not
00:10:27 ◼ ► gonna be nine minutes of tim i've lost that one um and uh so so 10 9 for me is the score
00:10:34 ◼ ► officially and if you want to find out whether the winner or uh was there a winner of our first
00:10:40 ◼ ► annual california bear trophy announced in upgrade plus stay tuned for upgrade plus where all
00:10:46 ◼ ► strangeness will be revealed and if you're like hey what is upgrade plus what is a longer ad-free
00:10:52 ◼ ► version of the show that we do every single week you can go to get upgrade plus dot com to find out
00:10:56 ◼ ► more and if you already have subscribed thank you so much we appreciate you um i will say i really
00:11:04 ◼ ► liked the rule amendment for the wwc draft i don't i'm still not sure that it would make sense for
00:11:10 ◼ ► other drafts because of just the nature of knowing in advance what they're going to talk about
00:11:16 ◼ ► category wise but i i am very on board of keeping this it added some some spice to the draft that i
00:11:22 ◼ ► appreciate it i agree we will look um in future drafts we will look a little more carefully at
00:11:29 ◼ ► how we want to deploy various rules just to keep it good and entertaining and also maybe a little
00:11:35 ◼ ► strategic and uh we'll keep we'll keep doing it but i i agree i think it worked better than i
00:11:40 ◼ ► expected actually so i was very happy with it all right let's start with ios 18 so okay kind of i i'm
00:11:50 ◼ ► picking our biggest things here to talk about there is definitely stuff we will not get to
00:12:01 ◼ ► of apps and widgets but still within a grid system but you can put them anywhere you like within that
00:12:05 ◼ ► grid color tinting of apps and widgets and you can hide names of apps and widgets by using what is
00:12:13 ◼ ► called the large option for icons which yeah large icons makes them look pretty pretty silly uh if you
00:12:20 ◼ ► ask me i don't like the way i think i think they're nice you think the big icons are nice i'm not this
00:12:25 ◼ ► is not you know i'm not saying i only glanced them briefly but i think that it's a valid um
00:12:30 ◼ ► a valid choice like any other i don't know if i would choose it either but i think it's nice to
00:12:35 ◼ ► give people the option what i will say is i like the option of large icons i'm i'm not sure that
00:12:44 ◼ ► it's like that i would that i need large icons and hide names to be the same option you know
00:12:51 ◼ ► like i think large icons is an option hide app names is an option you know i prefer that but
00:12:58 ◼ ► one the main thing i want to talk to you about is the uh the color tinting yeah i don't think it
00:13:07 ◼ ► looks good in any circumstance that i've seen so what i had hoped and kind of what mark gorman
00:13:15 ◼ ► suggested is that you might be able to uh tint certain groups of applications or individual
00:13:20 ◼ ► applications but you actually just tint all of them and yes i i have yet to see a screenshot
00:13:27 ◼ ► or have been able to produce something on my own and this includes what they showed in the
00:13:32 ◼ ► keynote that to my eye looks visually appealing i don't think it looks good so i saw some stuff
00:13:39 ◼ ► uh on apple devices that looked okay to me it's not my look but i thought it looked okay i don't
00:13:49 ◼ ► love it apparently um the so i kept theorizing that they're gonna like extol the virtues of
00:13:56 ◼ ► this to developers and all that they went the other way and they said you know what if a user
00:14:00 ◼ ► wants your icon to be green it's gonna be green and there's nothing you can do about it as a
00:14:04 ◼ ► developer and that's the other way to go is apple saying no this is a user thing and users get to
00:14:09 ◼ ► decide and your corporation that makes this app does not get to decide what their phone looks like
00:14:15 ◼ ► and it's like fair enough um i i don't i wouldn't use it right i wouldn't use it um and i wouldn't
00:14:23 ◼ ► use um i probably wouldn't even use the dark mode icons to be honest but certainly it's nice that
00:14:28 ◼ ► they have those because everybody gets to choose everybody's upset to me because i use dark mode
00:14:34 ◼ ► and i use dark and like a lot of my widgets get changed into dark mode but now it changes them
00:14:41 ◼ ► to light mode unless i choose dark mode and then i have all dark icons which isn't necessarily bad
00:14:53 ◼ ► deciding that dark means completely black which it doesn't need to um so some of the icons look
00:14:59 ◼ ► like they've been invited but for me apple's icon design i don't care about this for right now
00:15:04 ◼ ► i remember the days of ios 7 those icons are going to change um but something that i would
00:15:10 ◼ ► what i would really love to see if they were to make any change is to just let me individually
00:15:17 ◼ ► choose to tint certain apps and certain different colors like i don't know why it's all apps or one
00:15:26 ◼ ► color that to me is a it's quite a thing to do i think to go to that level yeah i i wonder how this
00:15:35 ◼ ► will be received i'm not sure it solves the problem that they were trying to solve no um i'm
00:15:41 ◼ ► okay with them trying it because i think they do need to do stuff like this but i'm not sure that
00:15:45 ◼ ► this is the way to do it and i there are things developers can do to make their apps look better
00:15:51 ◼ ► in these modes but it feels like even that is a little bit less than it probably should be
00:15:56 ◼ ► but the the big takeaways and the good takeaways is the free placement of everything people are
00:16:00 ◼ ► going to love that the fact that you can resize widgets like on the fly so you can choose an app
00:16:06 ◼ ► you can make it into a widget and then you can choose the size of that widget just all on the
00:16:10 ◼ ► home screen like without adding new widget all of that stuff is is good and you know we'll talk
00:16:15 ◼ ► about it later but it's also on the ipad as well as on ios which is a big surprise because that's
00:16:20 ◼ ► not how these things usually go right i should let's see what else there's one other thing about
00:16:25 ◼ ► this um i'm glad that they're doing it i agree that it doesn't necessarily look great i hope that
00:16:33 ◼ ► developers will get more of a say here and that maybe this will evolve over time there's one thing
00:16:39 ◼ ► that i thought they were about to announce in the keynote that they didn't do and that isn't in
00:16:43 ◼ ► there and i don't understand why they didn't do this so follow me here i'm going to give you my
00:16:47 ◼ ► pitch apple has had machine learning that can detect the subject of a of a photo for ages and
00:16:56 ◼ ► they're using it in a bunch of ways um on apple watch now the photos app dynamically will place
00:17:01 ◼ ► the subject place the time in the right place around the subject it's really very clever
00:17:09 ◼ ► they had that picture of the dog and they're like hey you can put icons to the left and the right
00:17:14 ◼ ► of the dog so you can see your dog and i thought what they were going to announce was we know that
00:17:20 ◼ ► that's your dog and that your dog is the center of the picture and so you can just say you know
00:17:30 ◼ ► i'm like no you got to do that manually i'm like you guys know what the subject of the photo is in
00:17:36 ◼ ► the background why would you not offer an option to move the icons away from the subject as like
00:17:45 ◼ ► a little magic kind of like oh yeah we cleared the way for your thing no no no you guys should just
00:17:49 ◼ ► do that by hand come on don't do that so i was surprised by that because it's like technology
00:17:54 ◼ ► that they've got and it would be a lot easier to do so i i was baffled by that i asked somebody at
00:18:01 ◼ ► apple about it they're like oh that's a good idea i'm like yeah yeah it is what are you doing oh
00:18:07 ◼ ► well at least it's a starting point right like start these out of the way for you and then you
00:18:11 ◼ ► can you can move them around and maybe you could now i was going to say maybe you could have things
00:18:16 ◼ ► overlap but that wouldn't look good i don't think that looks good no but wouldn't it be nice if you
00:18:21 ◼ ► could if you had like five icons on your home screen and it was like oh this picture is of a
00:18:24 ◼ ► thing um clean up and it goes and it pushes them all around that would be nice but it's not there
00:18:31 ◼ ► control center got a lot of work uh brand new design with pages which is great um there are
00:18:37 ◼ ► kind of uh manual page you have like buttons and music and home but you can also create your own
00:18:42 ◼ ► pages past that as well so you can have tons of down yeah down below and there's um if it seems
00:18:48 ◼ ► like like it's a little disappointing where it's like oh now you got a page through things they
00:18:52 ◼ ► have it very cleverly done where if you keep your finger down as you swipe on control center you can
00:18:56 ◼ ► just sort of keep swiping down and go through all the pages which is a nice uh shorter gesture if
00:19:03 ◼ ► you know you're going to page three you can swipe down from control center and then just sort of
00:19:08 ◼ ► keep swiping down yep and you'll get to page three which is nice and you can put in tons of buttons
00:19:13 ◼ ► you can change the sizes of those buttons and even third-party apps will be able to donate
00:19:18 ◼ ► kind of buttons to control center yeah they're party apps and control center that's really good
00:19:24 ◼ ► that's really good and being able to say say i want this one small i want this one big and you
00:19:28 ◼ ► just drag them out and they do that it's really smart good feature they will also not only will
00:19:33 ◼ ► they show on you can have them on the lock screen you'll also be able to change the camera and
00:19:39 ◼ ► flashlight buttons that are on the lock screen to something else if you wanted to know that there
00:19:44 ◼ ► was a dedicated camera button coming to the next iphone this is it for me like the fact that after
00:19:51 ◼ ► all this time they're like yeah you can change that like but why i don't worry about it we just
00:19:56 ◼ ► thought you might like to and also you can put these on the action button as well so all the
00:20:00 ◼ ► buttons are getting all the stuff and again that's another thing which tells me that maybe that
00:20:04 ◼ ► capture button will be somewhat configurable as well possibly right should be nice uh yeah and
00:20:08 ◼ ► the action button is so yeah maybe so the two um we actually asked some apple people why just two
00:20:15 ◼ ► why not four if you want down there and and their response was basically but there's two
00:20:22 ◼ ► i'm like okay all right whatever yep as we all know jason these things are constrained by the
00:20:27 ◼ ► laws of nature yeah that's right there can only be two down there master and apprentice i'm excited
00:20:33 ◼ ► i mean i've played around with it so i so just as a as an update for it i put uh the beta on my ipad
00:20:39 ◼ ► mini just because why not okay and i've also have vision os 2 running so that's kind of like my
00:20:45 ◼ ► little update for you i'll talk about that later on um and i i really like the controls and design
00:20:51 ◼ ► and i love the expandability of it i honestly can imagine i'll be using it way more i could imagine
00:20:57 ◼ ► for shortcuts and and all kinds of stuff like you know i could imagine a situation where i don't have
00:21:03 ◼ ► uh shortcuts on my home screen anymore as a widget because uh i could just put them in control center
00:21:09 ◼ ► i would expect and go wild of it there uh jason you are the man who wrote the book on photos
00:21:30 ◼ ► this summer jason uh-huh they redesigned the photos app uh a lot of it's the same it's just
00:21:41 ◼ ► different ways to use the photos app one of them is i need to find a photo i took and the other is
00:21:47 ◼ ► i would like to look at photos that i've taken that i maybe haven't visited in a while that
00:21:52 ◼ ► make me happy and show those to me because i've got tens of thousands of photos and i don't
00:21:57 ◼ ► know where they are and what they are and please apple help me see that they've been they've been
00:22:02 ◼ ► dealing with this for a while i think this is i mean this is another attempt to deal with it
00:22:08 ◼ ► basically they're trying to deal with the fact that this one app sort of has to do two things
00:22:12 ◼ ► and i personally view photos as more of a utility that i go to in order to get a photo and not as a
00:22:20 ◼ ► place that i go to just get inspired by nice photos from my past but apple clearly feels
00:22:27 ◼ ► that some people do uh which is fine i mean i use lock screen or widgets for that but um but i will
00:22:33 ◼ ► occasionally do that but i think apple figures a lot of people this is what they want so they built
00:22:37 ◼ ► this system where they're trying to push the they've gotten rid of their tab bar entirely
00:22:50 ◼ ► it's the photo grid but like below it is a scrollable um you can scroll up it's sort of
00:22:56 ◼ ► like a two-pane thing where if you if you move down you'll just get the photo grid if you move
00:23:01 ◼ ► up you'll just get all of those different curated collections and they've added a bunch more
00:23:07 ◼ ► um and then they've also added a thing where if you swipe to the right from the photo grid
00:23:11 ◼ ► there are other kind of like auto-playing featured items and photo of the day and you can pin things
00:23:18 ◼ ► there and you can pin things down below and it's interesting because there and there's some
00:23:25 ◼ ► ai features in there too like the ability to ask it to create a memory movie for you based on
00:23:32 ◼ ► on plain text which is kind of interesting i like that there's some stuff there's some stuff in
00:23:37 ◼ ► there but i do think that um apple struggles with this fact that photos is both a utility
00:23:44 ◼ ► and a you know discovery tool at the same time and it doesn't really make sense for there to be two
00:23:53 ◼ ► apps but how do you balance the fact that there are these two very different use cases and i think
00:23:59 ◼ ► that they struggle with it so i'm looking forward to seeing how they've put in some of their new ways
00:24:05 ◼ ► of of uh of exposing um photos from your past because it's true we all have so many photos that
00:24:14 ◼ ► that there's a lot of opportunity to delight you with photos in your library that you otherwise
00:24:19 ◼ ► would never look at again and that's great so they're trying again to do that um it's a challenge
00:24:27 ◼ ► and it'll be in the details right but i think bottom line is they want to be able if you open
00:24:32 ◼ ► the photos app they want to be able to at least offer you some things that might delight you
00:24:36 ◼ ► and a grid with a tab i think they i think what they're saying is basically that a lot of people
00:24:41 ◼ ► didn't switch away from the library tab and therefore they've moved it out of there gotten
00:24:46 ◼ ► rid of the tab because they really want you to see all the work that they've done to try to delight
00:24:51 ◼ ► you with surprising fun pictures from your last trip or of your kids or whatever so when i first
00:24:59 ◼ ► saw the design i was like well that's bold like that's quite bold um but in playing around with it
00:25:06 ◼ ► i'm i'm quite a fan actually for two reasons one when i use photos i am often never in the place
00:25:13 ◼ ► that i want to be um you know like how they say with with usb like usb-a you plug it in three
00:25:20 ◼ ► times you know like it's the you always end up flipping it around multiple times to get what you
00:25:24 ◼ ► want i'm like do i want to be in recents or do i want to be in like library like where am i supposed
00:25:29 ◼ ► to be right now but the the thing that solved me on it is the app and like what it shows you and
00:25:36 ◼ ► where it shows it is incredibly user customizable even the carousel at the top you can choose what
00:25:42 ◼ ► goes up there like what categories of things you can add your own things like if you want to put
00:25:47 ◼ ► a person up there so like every time you swipe to the third person maybe it's your partner they
00:25:52 ◼ ► can be there or when you go down it's like what types of uh collections of photos do you want
00:25:58 ◼ ► where do you want them to show how many of them do you want there to be so for me i like the amount
00:26:05 ◼ ► of customizability there is and the app is really asking for you to do it too like there are big
00:26:11 ◼ ► customized buttons all throughout the application to to get you to customize those views and kind of
00:26:16 ◼ ► make it what you're looking for so i i surprised myself that in actually using it uh i i'm a big
00:26:25 ◼ ► fan of it i'm a big fan of it all right uh messages not only did they redesign the emoji
00:26:33 ◼ ► tap backs to be all colorful they did this in service event of the tap backs i should say to be
00:26:38 ◼ ► all colorful they did this in service of adding the ability to add every single possible emoji as
00:26:44 ◼ ► an actual proper tap back to iMessages finally we did it everybody we did it yes congratulations
00:26:52 ◼ ► i actually get i actually did a slow clap at apple park when they announced this i did the slow
00:26:59 ◼ ► clap bravo finally after last year's decidedly disappointing well you can do some stickers
00:27:10 ◼ ► that look like emoji um whoever lost that argument last year won it this year because here we are so
00:27:16 ◼ ► hooray uh text formatting so it's rich text formatting to messages which is a nice addition
00:27:23 ◼ ► that i wouldn't have expected because what i would have expected is also what they did which is
00:27:28 ◼ ► their effects so you can have like fun text effects that affect words as well as the whole
00:27:32 ◼ ► individual words yeah not the whole message right uh a schedule to send later feature so if you want
00:27:38 ◼ ► to send someone a message but you feel like it's the wrong time of day you can schedule it to send
00:27:42 ◼ ► later on and also big surprise messages via satellite using the sos features to just straight
00:27:51 ◼ ► up send text messages and i believe i saw posted somewhere that there is also the ability to do
00:27:57 ◼ ► satellite video calls of emergency services is a thing that's been added to the ios no no no so
00:28:06 ◼ ► there's two things going on here and the word sos is part of the problem so let's separate them
00:28:11 ◼ ► please a satellite that's when you have no carrier and you want to send a message and previously it
00:28:19 ◼ ► was sort of like an emergency message or a or a location and now you can just send them a message
00:28:25 ◼ ► you can do texts back and forth you can uh do emoji reactions whatever it's all in there
00:28:31 ◼ ► um and it'll also do sms not not rcs but it'll do sms so if you've got if you have to reach somebody
00:28:37 ◼ ► who does not have an iphone you will be able to do that there's some sort of gateway there that
00:28:42 ◼ ► will take it and put it in sms send it on so that's great so that's the satellite feature
00:28:48 ◼ ► and how they're going to pay for it there are no limits as far as we can tell like it's unclear to
00:28:52 ◼ ► me what's going on if it's just that apple's deal with global star is so amazing that they can just
00:28:57 ◼ ► continue to float this for iphone users or whether there's going to come a day where they say no no
00:29:02 ◼ ► no now you have to pay um we'll see but uh the other feature is sos which is my understanding
00:29:10 ◼ ► what that is is that's when you're in cell range but not your carrier okay and that feature there's
00:29:17 ◼ ► now the ability for the emergency services when you do an emergency sos call to do video to request
00:29:23 ◼ ► a video call with you on that cellular network but that's different right so so there's a law
00:29:28 ◼ ► at least in the united states i assume other places too where if you're in cell range but not your
00:29:33 ◼ ► carrier you still get to make an emergency call like they're not going to say oh you've got
00:29:37 ◼ ► verizon not atnt so you must die right they say no no if you cannot see verizon um but you can't
00:29:44 ◼ ► see atnt you can still make an emergency call if you've ever taken a deactivated phone and started
00:29:49 ◼ ► it up and it says emergency sos that's what it's saying is it doesn't have a carrier on it but it
00:29:55 ◼ ► can still make an emergency call legally it has to be able to do that so i think they add a video to
00:30:00 ◼ ► that feature but that's not the same as the satellite feature thank you yeah i saw the words
00:30:04 ◼ ► sos and i put them all together but that that's not accurate and apparently the dynamic island
00:30:10 ◼ ► animation thing for where you point your phone to get the satellite has been improved too so that
00:30:17 ◼ ► um but this sounds this sounds fun i i need to go somewhere um out of range and send somebody a text
00:30:23 ◼ ► i guess should we move on to mail yeah let's do it mail got some features here and a bunch more later
00:30:30 ◼ ► um the just the standard ios 18 features is categorization kind of like what gmail does
00:30:36 ◼ ► it's also what the app that i use spark does so it will take your email and work out if it's
00:30:42 ◼ ► basically a person transaction an update which i'm assuming in newsletters and promotions
00:30:47 ◼ ► interesting what's updates and promotions as i say that out loud i guess we'll find out
00:30:51 ◼ ► and they also have a screen where like imagine you they showed that an airline right you've
00:30:57 ◼ ► got messages from an airline and you can tap in to see all the messages that airline has shown you
00:31:02 ◼ ► and in one in one kind of view these are nice updates to mail just on their own i think these
00:31:07 ◼ ► are these are good features um i'll be very keen to see how the categorization works without apple
00:31:14 ◼ ► intelligence because i think both yeah right there are versions of this that i reckon are in both
00:31:22 ◼ ► ways uh and this is just machine learning as opposed to apple intelligence ai stuff um they're
00:31:29 ◼ ► adding this feature but then i think it will get better with uh the ai features yeah i'm unclear on
00:31:36 ◼ ► exactly what's going on here but this is apple actually trying to i actually think the grouping
00:31:41 ◼ ► is more interesting like show me all my um you know messages from a specific airline i think
00:31:48 ◼ ► that's really really smart this is this is good that is a helpful thing yeah again spark that i
00:31:55 ◼ ► use it also does this like you can it essentially creates a custom search so you'll be like show me
00:32:00 ◼ ► all the emails from this sender and it creates like a custom search and just shows you everything
00:32:05 ◼ ► to and from which is really good but it's not as visually appealing as apple's one right is right
00:32:10 ◼ ► and there's a passwords app there is tell me about the passwords app um apparently it's entirely in
00:32:18 ◼ ► swift ui uh and that's why it's going to come out on iphone ipad mac and vision pro yep makes sense
00:32:25 ◼ ► all of them it is the thing you know it's the stuff from settings pulled out into an app there
00:32:32 ◼ ► are some um other features here and there like uh on the mac there's a menu item that you can have
00:32:37 ◼ ► that you can call up and look up a password and copy it or whatever if you want to do it that way
00:32:42 ◼ ► it's got like some stuff that was previously in keychain access like uh wi-fi passwords you can
00:32:47 ◼ ► get in there too there's a bunch of different things pass keys um i think functionally not a
00:32:53 ◼ ► lot has changed from apple's existing thing i i i know some people even at the event who were like
00:33:00 ◼ ► oh can it do this thing now and and the response from apple was well actually it's been able to do
00:33:05 ◼ ► that for several years now i think there's the functionality's been in there but the idea here
00:33:10 ◼ ► is that it's um it's now an app so you can point people at it i was trying to explain where my mom
00:33:17 ◼ ► last week where the passwords were and i said oh you gotta go to settings and you gotta scroll
00:33:22 ◼ ► then you gotta choose password you can put in your password then you can see it but if you leave
00:33:28 ◼ ► you've got to go back to settings and like it's just easier to say go to the passwords app it's
00:33:32 ◼ ► just easier yeah it's better i yeah i'm gonna say like oh you could already do it i've seen this too
00:33:37 ◼ ► and it's like gang if i have to go into three levels of settings to try and see if this feature
00:33:43 ◼ ► exists you cannot hold it against me that i maybe don't know the feature exists come on gang come on
00:33:48 ◼ ► team let's get together here um it's better if it's explicitly out there plus that lets them have
00:33:55 ◼ ► more room to have a resizable window on mac and uh filters so that you can view all of your wi-fi
00:34:03 ◼ ► or all of your pass keys or whatever i do think it's interesting for people who are coming from
00:34:06 ◼ ► something like one password which has thrown a bunch of security features in it's not a one-to-one
00:34:11 ◼ ► match because like apple doesn't apple has a different place you put your credit card and
00:34:15 ◼ ► apple has a different place that you put secure notes you put them in notes um so it's not a
00:34:20 ◼ ► one-to-one with one password but if you're if you are only using apple's ecosystem or windows
00:34:28 ◼ ► because it'll work on windows um you can do this and you'll you'll get all those benefits and it
00:34:36 ◼ ► just comes for free as a an apple user um not on android though no forget about that but on the
00:34:44 ◼ ► rest of them um and it looks pretty good like i think that this is the whole idea here is the
00:34:48 ◼ ► world is better if more people are using a password manager yep and doing smart things with passwords
00:34:53 ◼ ► and that i i fundamentally believe that you could argue oh well it already did this thing but like
00:34:57 ◼ ► yeah but it was hidden away and now it's not and i think that that's good this is a thing that
00:35:02 ◼ ► apple probably should have done a long time ago i'm very glad that they finally done it yeah i
00:35:08 ◼ ► i i'm happy this feature exists for everyone in my life for me uh i i have a lot of team accounts
00:35:17 ◼ ► in one password and obviously it's one password has become more focused on teams as their thing
00:35:24 ◼ ► i just i don't imagine apple recreating the features that i have of like the way that i can
00:35:38 ◼ ► administrative features that one password has i mean the beautiful thing about apple's system
00:35:45 ◼ ► is that they do have definable groups that you can put logins in yeah but there's also like
00:35:51 ◼ ► here's the thing now you're doing it to me like i know everyone in the discord is doing to me
00:35:57 ◼ ► one password works with teams on varying devices and has a lot of like security stuff around like
00:36:08 ◼ ► well what if this employee goes this way or did it like just trust me what i need is one password
00:36:16 ◼ ► okay even though it's great that the passwords app has it um it it's it well maybe i'll look into it
00:36:22 ◼ ► and you know what maybe i was wrong the whole time uh but my what i understand is it seems like
00:36:28 ◼ ► i don't know it seems like passwords is more for your friends and family than your co-workers is
00:36:34 ◼ ► what i'm saying right okay that's at least that's that's the read that i have but you know maybe
00:36:40 ◼ ► we'll find out maybe i'll maybe i'll have to go on a journey of discovery just like everybody else
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00:39:03 ◼ ► for the support of this show and relay fm okay so we've got to get to it it's apple intelligence time
00:39:13 ◼ ► so we're going to break this down into two categories we're going to talk about the features
00:39:26 ◼ ► just let us talk about the the features first all right just just give us some grace talk about the
00:39:33 ◼ ► features and then we'll talk about everything that well a selection of things that could come from
00:39:53 ◼ ► the thing that i find funny about this is they have broken away from using the apple logo
00:40:09 ◼ ► thing when it's called apple something right but here it says apple spelled out apple because then
00:40:15 ◼ ► you get the ai and again i'm just like you know what great like yes do it why not i think it's
00:40:25 ◼ ► apple logo because apple logo doesn't start with a apple logo starts with apple so we need it to say
00:40:33 ◼ ► a and then i and i think that's very very funny i'm gonna break this down yeah i guess i should
00:40:40 ◼ ► give a warning here which is there's been some confusion and some of this is apple's fault
00:40:53 ◼ ► apple's machine learning models there is a partnership that was announced the ability i
00:41:01 ◼ ► would even phrase it more broadly the ability for other machine learning other ai systems to be
00:41:09 ◼ ► called by the system in specific instances with your approval is first turned off by default
00:41:17 ◼ ► and second if you turn it on you get these warnings those are where you will see for example
00:41:24 ◼ ► chat gpt which is the first announced partner although you know craig fedorigi said the name
00:41:31 ◼ ► google gemini on stage in a post event thing for press and then said but we've got nothing to
00:41:38 ◼ ► announce which is like okay i don't know what even how to reach that but but um so i've seen a lot of
00:41:44 ◼ ► people are like oh open ai is powering all of apple stuff it's not it's really really not so
00:41:51 ◼ ► just to be crystal clear here unless we say that's open ai it's not it's not this is apple building
00:41:58 ◼ ► its own stuff and they've got their own models and they're running on their own hardware and their own
00:42:04 ◼ ► processors yeah actually the we will make it simple the very last set of features we will talk
00:42:11 ◼ ► about is the chat gpt thing so yeah until we get to that this is all apple stuff all apple including
00:42:18 ◼ ► their own writing tools so this is a selection of transforming text stuff which goes from the
00:42:27 ◼ ► ability of taking your own text and changing its tone and changing its length to some grammar basic
00:42:34 ◼ ► generation of text that they're doing with apple intelligence but it seems like by and large
00:42:53 ◼ ► it's changing what you've done using your text as the foundation so it might be as simple as
00:43:01 ◼ ► a grammar check with suggestions which is a thing that they offer it's a writing checker it's like
00:43:06 ◼ ► grammarly basically or make this more professional but again it's using your text as the basis from
00:43:13 ◼ ► it so it's gonna sound it's gonna sound a lot like you because your text is the input it's not sort of
00:43:19 ◼ ► a random input so yeah that there's a lot of transformation going on here i think that this
00:43:24 ◼ ► i think people will find some of this stuff valuable probably more more of it like for me
00:43:29 ◼ ► i'm like oh well you know letting people get a quick grammar check that's built into the os is
00:43:34 ◼ ► a is probably a smart thing and it's not the worst thing in the world i mean their example was very
00:43:39 ◼ ► funny because it was like super unprofessional uh cover letter and they're like well let's make this
00:43:45 ◼ ► a little more professional where it would have been like a wise you know a mentor saying maybe
00:43:50 ◼ ► don't phrase it this way and that's basically what the the writing tool does uh notifications
00:43:57 ◼ ► i've received quite a lot of love i'm excited about this um they try to surface priority
00:44:03 ◼ ► messages based on their context and content uh if you get a lot of notifications from a specific
00:44:10 ◼ ► app like a group chat saying iMessage it will try to summarize what's going on inside of those
00:44:16 ◼ ► notifications this is great and then also a new focus mode called reduce interruptions that tries
00:44:22 ◼ ► to highlight just the most important notifications all of this is great i love this uh notifications
00:44:29 ◼ ► will always be a problem i think maybe the only way we can ever try to deal with them is having
00:44:33 ◼ ► ai deal with it for us i think yeah i mean it's the idea of having essentially a personal assistant
00:44:38 ◼ ► who's looking and saying this one looks important this one doesn't look as important and then the
00:44:42 ◼ ► one that made me laugh is the one where it was a group thread where um it boiled it did like a
00:44:48 ◼ ► summary of what was going on in the group thread it's like 20 messages about somebody got a dog
00:44:53 ◼ ► and you're like okay i can read that later right like that's why that one's popping off
00:44:57 ◼ ► and that's just fine that's just fine uh we mentioned mail earlier so mail will also be using
00:45:05 ◼ ► apple intelligence to highlight priority messages um i guess this is trying to within say like in
00:45:14 ◼ ► your uh like the primary group which is like of people you'd assume or like the things that it
00:45:20 ◼ ► thinks are important to you it will then try to highlight the messages within that group and push
00:45:25 ◼ ► them up to the top so it's like a second filter on top of those filters i would assume it will
00:45:31 ◼ ► so and i love this feature it will instead of in an email just seeing like the first line or two
00:45:36 ◼ ► of the email it will show a summary there instead that is good that's a fantastic feature it's one
00:45:45 ◼ ► of those things where i'm like oh yeah that that like preview is pointless because it's always just
00:45:51 ◼ ► like hi you know like it's not actually really that helpful and also kind of neither is a subject
00:45:58 ◼ ► line like this is actually i think a better way of showing me what's inside of an email message
00:46:03 ◼ ► i think is good uh if you get a really long message tldr of that fantastic are you kidding me
00:46:09 ◼ ► brilliant and then i really like the ways they're doing smart replies so i've seen this in other
00:46:15 ◼ ► applications where it tries to basically like draft emails for you but it should try and scan
00:46:20 ◼ ► an email and then ask you questions to help make that reply better which is cool right the idea
00:46:28 ◼ ► there is and they did show this in the video but it's the idea that you know essentially you're
00:46:34 ◼ ► being asked to fill out a form but you're doing it in an email and it scans it and says look this
00:46:40 ◼ ► is what you're being asked is are you bringing your partner and you know chicken or beef or veg
00:46:46 ◼ ► vegetarian option right like okay and you just pick them and it makes a thing that says hey
00:46:52 ◼ ► thanks here's my answers done and you send it off and that seems not unreasonable uh you mentioned
00:46:59 ◼ ► audio transcripts earlier they're going to be in the notes and the phone app so we could be on the
00:47:06 ◼ ► phone call for someone and it can it can transcribe the call for you which is cool i think it says i
00:47:12 ◼ ► think they said they they let the person on the phone know that yes it's disclosed that a that
00:47:17 ◼ ► a transcript is happening that you're recording essentially the phone call yeah image generation
00:47:24 ◼ ► is being done in a bunch of ways image playground which is both an app and a feature right yes
00:47:42 ◼ ► feelings about this but i'm going to suppress them for now oh i have lots of things about it too so
00:47:47 ◼ ► we will allow those feelings to escape soon um this is essentially for what i can understand
00:47:54 ◼ ► and i assume you may have seen this um it will create images based on some prompts that you give
00:48:01 ◼ ► and that you adjust the style and it can also allow you to use people in your photo library
00:48:08 ◼ ► as the prompt is that correct is that correct i would say it's even more simplified than that
00:48:16 ◼ ► where you can give a prompt but what it seems to do is break it up into some particular tags or
00:48:22 ◼ ► you can select from a bunch of tags and it will generate images for you so there are real guard
00:48:29 ◼ ► rails on this like there are the apple really like limits you in style and then and it tries to
00:48:35 ◼ ► atomize what you do if you do a text prompt into little bits but it gives you a picker so you can
00:48:40 ◼ ► just sort of pick things i think because they believe that people who use generative ai image
00:48:47 ◼ ► stuff one of the problems is building a prompt and so they tried to put a whole ui on it where
00:48:52 ◼ ► they limit what their because it's their engine again what their engine you know is capable of
00:48:57 ◼ ► and what they want it to do and what it's good at so they're trying to put this whole interface
00:49:02 ◼ ► where you can like swipe around and say you know here's a superhero cape is like literally a choice
00:49:07 ◼ ► and you choose a picture of somebody in your photo library and you choose you know something else and
00:49:12 ◼ ► then it shows them all and it generates it and you can say no not like that or give me an alternate
00:49:17 ◼ ► one and you swipe and there's a whole bunch of stuff going on there but while you can do a free
00:49:22 ◼ ► form even the free form seems like it kind of gets exploded into individual concepts which you can
00:49:28 ◼ ► then remove if you don't like them so it's it's it's gonna be i need you know we're all gonna need
00:49:35 ◼ ► to see how this works in practice but it seems like they're trying to you know solve the problem
00:49:41 ◼ ► of how do you generate images via ai without having it be the old command line approach which
00:49:50 ◼ ► isn't that great and they're trying to do it in a different way that's tuned to their particular
00:49:55 ◼ ► image generation model yeah i guess they're using what you're giving to write the prompts behind the
00:50:00 ◼ ► scene basically right like the the prompt engineering is happening behind the ui yeah yeah
00:50:08 ◼ ► they're building they're they're not making you program this feature right they programmed a ui
00:50:12 ◼ ► on top of this feature that you use jen moji hi i'm jen another name right this is my other name
00:50:20 ◼ ► this just doesn't need a name like this it doesn't really um so you can describe what you want an
00:50:28 ◼ ► emoji to look like this will also allow you to create kind of like personalized me emoji again
00:50:35 ◼ ► of you or of people in your photo library these can be used as stickers but also in line in text
00:50:42 ◼ ► messages as emoji right i mean do you know how really not really not really okay it's really an
00:50:50 ◼ ► image that's being sent but they've worked it out in imessage so that it shows as an emoji right uh
00:50:57 ◼ ► it looks it's styled like an emoji and it's the right size of being an emoji this is like slack
00:51:01 ◼ ► custom emoji and discord custom emoji right exactly but it's not it's an image yeah that
00:51:07 ◼ ► looks like an emoji that's exactly what it is so that's what's going on here um and i don't love
00:51:16 ◼ ► the name but i really like this feature because it's to me it's like oh you build an image
00:51:22 ◼ ► generator based on what emoji look like and then it will use your prompts also the context of the
00:51:29 ◼ ► conversation you're having yeah to suggest emojis that you can send and i like it this is look this
00:51:37 ◼ ► whole category is apple i feel like this is the impulse that caused us to have me emoji and digital
00:51:46 ◼ ► touch maybe it's this hey things are fun right everybody this is fun we're having fun on our
00:51:56 ◼ ► phones kids you know it's great and sometimes those impulses are are are mistaken but i think
00:52:04 ◼ ► the genmoji stuff i kind of like it i kind of like how constrained it is where it's like look
00:52:10 ◼ ► all we're doing is we know our model knows what emojis look like yeah and then we can make more
00:52:15 ◼ ► of them and they look like emojis but you don't have to go into photoshop and build a whole like
00:52:19 ◼ ► custom emoji and upload it to slack and all of that it just happens and you pick it and then
00:52:24 ◼ ► they get it and we all have a good laugh because now you're able to make an emoji that doesn't exist
00:52:29 ◼ ► and uh i think in contrast to image playground i really like this feature because it is very
00:52:36 ◼ ► specific and constrained and uh and solves a problem and they can be used in those emoji
00:52:42 ◼ ► tap backs and like i like it i think i think this is exactly the right amount of fun that
00:52:47 ◼ ► apple should be doing well i i i agree with you there like most like basically entirely if it
00:52:55 ◼ ► was if it always looked like emoji like there was some of the emoji that they were showing in the
00:53:01 ◼ ► keynote just didn't look like apple's emoji style like there was like i think like a dinosaur on a
00:53:06 ◼ ► skateboard or something yeah they well it looked close to it but you're right i think that's the
00:53:11 ◼ ► danger of it is you end up with with something that does not look like an emoji and it just
00:53:16 ◼ ► looked like a little ai generated image that was tiny but then they would show one where it was
00:53:20 ◼ ► like oh here is like uh our emoji face of cucumbers over its eyes and it's like yeah no that that
00:53:26 ◼ ► looks right yeah yeah so that's my question i think and the funny thing is these models are like
00:53:32 ◼ ► they can swap out models so like they may show us stuff now and over the course of the beta process
00:53:39 ◼ ► and ongoing development they're like yeah you know they may tweak it and say no no no it really needs
00:53:44 ◼ ► to be much more on what emojis look like um or not but i would like it if if it looked like these are
00:53:51 ◼ ► emojis from an alternate world where the unicode consortium got very strangely specific about
00:53:56 ◼ ► something that it didn't in real life that's what i would like them to look like yeah yeah i agree
00:54:01 ◼ ► with you i agree with you and then image wand using the apple pencil so you could draw something
00:54:07 ◼ ► with your apple pencil and then you circle it with the image wand and it takes what you've drawn as
00:54:14 ◼ ► the basis for creating an ai image this is similar to i think what microsoft just showed off with
00:54:20 ◼ ► paint because you could you would draw something and then paint you make a sketch and and it scans
00:54:25 ◼ ► it essentially and its model turns it into an image of what it thinks based on not just the
00:54:32 ◼ ► image but the context around it right the text around it and all of that and then it it does a
00:54:36 ◼ ► it does a generation and this is uh again i think that i get what their impulse is here um i think
00:54:43 ◼ ► it feels a little less successful but um i get what they're trying to do so imagine the largest
00:54:49 ◼ ► pin possible we're putting that pin in this and we'll come back to it later huge pins in it later
00:54:56 ◼ ► on we'll both those feelings feelings to be determined at a later time so we already mentioned
00:55:01 ◼ ► these but photos has a cleanup tool which is essentially magic eraser and the ability to make
00:55:08 ◼ ► memory movies based on a prompt which i really like right like make a movie for me on the trip
00:55:13 ◼ ► that me and adina took last october right yes like that's great rather than me going through
00:55:18 ◼ ► and choosing it at least give me a starting point like i think this is a nice way to take out some
00:55:24 ◼ ► of the tedium putting something like that together exactly no that's good it's a good use it does
00:55:29 ◼ ► make me think i'm surprised that there are no features like this in music where it would be
00:55:35 ◼ ► a really good way to make playlists great point yeah why is there no music playlist generation
00:55:40 ◼ ► but it's not so that's a bummer but uh it's here and yeah that that cleanup tool again i want to
00:55:48 ◼ ► applaud that they did it i also want to boo because they should have had that five years
00:55:57 ◼ ► i think the reason they didn't is probably because somebody inside the inside the photos
00:56:02 ◼ ► team or in charge of the photos team was like no no no we're gonna preserve the sanctity blah blah
00:56:07 ◼ ► blah but like it's what your users want it's it's a good thing to do you don't have to do it in an
00:56:13 ◼ ► evil way you just you know let me let me clean up and it's like it'll detect but you can also
00:56:19 ◼ ► you can also just um mark oh circle or mark over what you want to remove and it will do
00:56:27 ◼ ► the job exactly as you expect which is great um and i i have to come back to there's not even been
00:56:33 ◼ ► a a touch-up tool on ios before in photos so this is i mean we'll see how it works in practice but
00:56:54 ◼ ► it looks new so the the ui has now changed from the glowing orb to uh highlighting the edge of
00:57:01 ◼ ► your phone of a kind of multi-color glow which i i really like the look of that um you can also
00:57:08 ◼ ► type to siri now by double tapping the bottom of your screen and so anything you can ask you can
00:57:13 ◼ ► now type this now feel like type to siri has been a thing they've had on and off over the years
00:57:19 ◼ ► sometimes as accessibility sometimes it's more of a feature this feels like a time where maybe
00:57:24 ◼ ► you would want it more than you ever needed it before right in that way because we're now more
00:57:28 ◼ ► used to typing to these types of assistants and chatbots siri can give you advice on device
00:57:36 ◼ ► features which i think is cute you know suck the manuals into siri and spit them back out at users
00:57:41 ◼ ► like why not that's a good idea i i think that's a really great like let's use this system to help
00:57:48 ◼ ► people directly when they say how do i do this and be able to give them actual actionable answers of
00:57:53 ◼ ► that that's great like if that works that's great i'm just like shouting at my home pods behind me
00:57:59 ◼ ► this is something that's something that that would be a treat for anybody that watches the
00:58:03 ◼ ► video version of the show they'll just see me like turning around and shouting at my home pod
00:58:07 ◼ ► so you know i'm trying my best over here i'm gonna give you a quote from uh apple's uh uh kind of
00:58:20 ◼ ► communicating with siri even more natural have you experienced anybody communicating with siri
00:58:25 ◼ ► because i didn't get this vibe from the keynote really no there's that's not something they want
00:58:32 ◼ ► to show um i saw i had several demos i have never seen somebody interact with siri with siri speaking
00:58:43 ◼ ► because i was really struck by that in the keynote that like the presenter kept asking and siri just
00:58:48 ◼ ► kept showing and i said well that's my experience no yeah it was no yeah no they're they're clearly
00:58:55 ◼ ► unwilling to show that right now so it probably doesn't work and then there are these three things
00:59:01 ◼ ► that go together i think um on-screen awareness so you can ask your assistant to do things
00:59:07 ◼ ► uh that you can see and it will do it like send this to jason at this to jason's address to jason's
00:59:16 ◼ ► contact right there is personal context awareness so your assistant i'm trying to stop saying it now
00:59:24 ◼ ► will know things that are on your device you could be like oh i saw that jason sent me an episode of
00:59:33 ◼ ► atp recently can you find what one that was and it should be able to go find it and also to be able
00:59:39 ◼ ► to take actions across apps so you could say like can you take this turn it into a pdf and send it
00:59:47 ◼ ► to jason in slack in theory and this uses a combination of intense and siri kit i'm expecting
00:59:54 ◼ ► or maybe hoping you've seen some of this stuff in action yeah i mean a little bit it's it's this is
01:00:01 ◼ ► stuff that's not going to ship anytime soon yeah this is all that they're working on it most likely
01:00:06 ◼ ► these things what i want to do is explain a little bit about how it works so they have this um
01:00:11 ◼ ► semantic index which is basically like it isn't it's like a search engine index it's pointing at
01:00:26 ◼ ► it's the pointer to it but it allows you to search it quickly so the semantic index is there
01:00:32 ◼ ► and it's encrypted and it's only accessible by intelligence by the apple intelligence stuff so
01:00:39 ◼ ► they've tried to wall it off like it's not it is a map of everything that you've got on that device
01:00:46 ◼ ► in terms of content but they only want the ai system itself to have access to it so there's
01:00:52 ◼ ► some security considerations there and then what happens is something and it may be another model
01:01:00 ◼ ► basically decides what relevant content is in the semantic index and then passes that to the
01:01:07 ◼ ► model for analysis and that might be a non-device model or it might be a remote model and uh and
01:01:14 ◼ ► then it processes it and gives you the result so there's a bunch of stuff going on here but
01:01:19 ◼ ► they are trying to build with the semantic index something that is essentially an index to the
01:01:24 ◼ ► complete set of knowledge about what is knowable about you based on what's on any given device and
01:01:33 ◼ ► i should also say for those who are wondering is this like everything that's knowable about me and
01:01:38 ◼ ► apple's entire ecosystem on all my devices the answer is kind of no because like with photos
01:01:47 ◼ ► the the model is running and the index is being generated based on the contents of your device
01:01:55 ◼ ► which is why for example when you do a search on your ipad and your iphone for something in photos
01:02:05 ◼ ► you don't always get the same results because those items are are cataloged by a machine learning model
01:02:15 ◼ ► individually they they don't like it doesn't happen once and then all the data gets synced
01:02:19 ◼ ► among your devices it happens on device and the the way that the phrase on device it sounds good
01:02:26 ◼ ► right but it cuts the other way which is on device it's not on your devices it's not your personal
01:02:33 ◼ ► data it's on a device which means if you're thinking well does that mean that every apple
01:02:46 ◼ ► build a semantic index so i'm going to have a different semantic index on the ipad than the mac
01:02:50 ◼ ► than the iphone the answer is yes which technically it may be necessary to do that because apple
01:03:00 ◼ ► you know because to distribute machine learning stuff across devices may be really impractical
01:03:15 ◼ ► gotten a new iphone and and had it chunk through your photos library and you're thinking but my
01:03:20 ◼ ► ipad's got the whole library and my mac's got the whole library why are you processing it again and
01:03:25 ◼ ► the answer is because it has to and there are things that sync that are like things that you
01:03:30 ◼ ► you prefer or things that you've favorited or things that you've trained and and presumably
01:03:37 ◼ ► some of that will also come across with some of these apple intelligence features but it's
01:03:43 ◼ ► just something else to keep in mind that on device means on a device for better or for worse but they
01:03:51 ◼ ► they are trying very hard to have the like the privacy and security issue thought of where the
01:03:55 ◼ ► semantic index exists but it's encrypted and only the ai process has access to decrypt it and and so
01:04:02 ◼ ► we'll have to there's going to be there's a white paper about this there's going to be a lot more
01:04:05 ◼ ► technical detail but they this is not something that apple just kind of came up with in the last
01:04:09 ◼ ► month there's a lot going on here and it does seem like at least to start with the types of apps and
01:04:15 ◼ ► things that can happen are actually going to be somewhat limited for the intense part of it yeah
01:04:21 ◼ ► it feels very much i mean intense app intensive existed for a while um for like shortcuts and
01:04:27 ◼ ► people don't support them and it is there are a few places in here where apple has done a very
01:04:32 ◼ ► much like a carrot and stick thing where they're like all right would you like siri to do things
01:04:40 ◼ ► with your app for the user well the that'll only work if you give us app intense so you better
01:04:46 ◼ ► write some app intense otherwise your app is not going to get used by the system and therefore is
01:04:50 ◼ ► going to be less helpful to your users so so so do it right and maybe that will cause more of them
01:04:57 ◼ ► to build these app intents which are essentially kind of quantizing functionality in their app and
01:05:03 ◼ ► handing it to the system and say these are things my app can do if you ask and that allows the new
01:05:09 ◼ ► model to run and the new siri to run and say oh okay you want me to do this with this thing i can
01:05:14 ◼ ► do that and they they gave an example of like an email with superhuman but the idea there is like
01:05:18 ◼ ► it doesn't have to be apple mail it could be a different email app and if it's got the right
01:05:23 ◼ ► intents and it's got everything worked it'll just it can do that too it knows that that's your email
01:05:27 ◼ ► client it'll use that one and it's got the ability to look at the intents and etc etc so there's
01:05:37 ◼ ► app intense shortcuts as part of the siri team this is all already siri stuff and make it like
01:05:44 ◼ ► even more reason to do this and it seems like the on-screen stuff is it like is it ui scripting is
01:05:51 ◼ ► that what it's doing maybe it's not no it's not i i've seen no examples of it pressing anything
01:05:59 ◼ ► or controlling anything it's looking at the screen and doing so the model is able to look at the
01:06:03 ◼ ► screen but i don't see it like clicking buttons or things like that it's using it's using things like
01:06:08 ◼ ► app intents to make those controls happen okay it's not driving the screen it sees the screen
01:06:12 ◼ ► but it's not driving the screen but it can't like yeah okay like if slack hadn't enabled it it can't
01:06:21 ◼ ► be like send this to jason and slack even if i have slack open it's going to be interesting to
01:06:25 ◼ ► see how this rolls out well so yeah so slack would need if slack's got an app intent uh to send a
01:06:32 ◼ ► message and the ability to specify who the person is that can be read like it would be able to do it
01:06:39 ◼ ► but that's the kind of stuff that's going to be required at least in this iteration i don't i
01:06:43 ◼ ► don't think there's any support for the idea that it's going to be able to just sort of like know
01:06:46 ◼ ► what buttons to click in slack that's not what's going on here okay okay privacy so on device
01:06:55 ◼ ► is how the majority of this stuff is going to be done but when something is complex i don't know if
01:07:02 ◼ ► you have more examples of what those things might be but if something is complex it goes out to the
01:07:08 ◼ ► cloud it goes out to apple's own cloud and they have built a system called private cloud compute
01:07:18 ◼ ► when you're going out to the cloud you only only the relevant data is sent and is not stored and
01:07:26 ◼ ► apple have and they're going to be uh using a system called verifiable privacy promise where
01:07:32 ◼ ► they can have outside investigators essentially so the way this works um there are certain tasks
01:07:40 ◼ ► and it will determine it right you you will say i wanted to do this thing and it will determine
01:07:44 ◼ ► whether it's in the cloud or not there is i asked by the way there is not currently anything that is
01:07:51 ◼ ► hardware gating on whether it goes in the cloud or not so it's not like if it's an m1 it may some
01:07:58 ◼ ► stuff that the m2 and the m3 and the m4 can handle but the m1 will set it to the cloud that's not how
01:08:05 ◼ ► it's built today it the all the devices will make those judgments and it's independent of the
01:08:10 ◼ ► hardware there might come a time down the road where there's like an m6 and there's a new function
01:08:15 ◼ ► and the m6 can run it on device and the m1 can't and then it might do that but that's not the case
01:08:20 ◼ ► today and essentially it was best for apple if they never need to talk about that right exactly
01:08:27 ◼ ► and well and the rest of the system is built that way you are not told whether it's going to the
01:08:31 ◼ ► cloud or not right that's just not part of the the conversation um some of it is and some of it isn't
01:08:37 ◼ ► i guess unless you don't have an internet connection right then yes and i'm unclear what happens if you
01:08:43 ◼ ► don't have an internet connection if it's functional or if like a lot of the intelligence stuff just
01:08:47 ◼ ► drops even if it is local right i mean we don't know how that's going to go um in terms of private
01:08:53 ◼ ► cloud compute these are servers that are running in apple's data centers not in other people's data
01:08:57 ◼ ► centers they are servers built by apple they are running on apple silicon chips they would not
01:09:02 ◼ ► specify what the chips are my guess is going to be that they're m1 or m2 generation probably m2
01:09:08 ◼ ► generation because that three nanometer process is real expensive and uh so that's my guess but i
01:09:14 ◼ ► don't know do you think they've built a custom chip well mark german so they wouldn't again they
01:09:18 ◼ ► wouldn't say mark german says that they are working on a custom chip uh i think he said that at some
01:09:23 ◼ ► point um i my guess is that it's not now just because i feel like we would know if they had
01:09:30 ◼ ► built a custom version i do wonder you know is it a is it binned m2s that they only really care
01:09:36 ◼ ► about the gpu's and i i i we nobody they're not talking about it but what i will say is they have
01:09:42 ◼ ► built a hardened subsystem version of ios essentially that is running on these servers okay
01:09:48 ◼ ► so it's very secure they have no persistent storage they so apple it's end-to-end encrypted
01:09:56 ◼ ► and apple has no way to get the data that's on them so basically app and and they're auditable
01:10:02 ◼ ► by outside security researchers so apple is basically saying we have built a system that
01:10:08 ◼ ► makes sending your ai queries to the cloud secure like it's on your device and everybody's gonna
01:10:14 ◼ ► have to process that and everybody's gonna have to think about it but i think i think this sounds
01:10:19 ◼ ► pretty legit i feel like this is as safe as it could possibly be like for me i just maybe
01:10:25 ◼ ► i'm being gullible i don't know but like when i hear that i'm like yeah of course that's what
01:10:29 ◼ ► they're doing like i don't i i you know i don't i don't i don't know what you feel but i have
01:10:35 ◼ ► absolutely zero qualm with everything they're spoken about when it comes to data privacy and
01:10:41 ◼ ► ai processing yeah i i think this is this is we will see right i mean the beauty of it is is that
01:10:48 ◼ ► it will be verifiable by experts they're basically saying we want people to look at this there will
01:10:54 ◼ ► be security bounties you know we are putting you know putting all of this out there but it's
01:10:59 ◼ ► i don't know what you do beyond it's our cloud it's our hardware it's our operating system
01:11:05 ◼ ► and i i can see the argument we see this in the chat room of like oh i want to be known
01:11:11 ◼ ► i want to know if it's going out there and be able to turn that off like i i i don't know about that
01:11:19 ◼ ► i don't know if that's necessary um because i i part of me thinks you are asking for a level of
01:11:27 ◼ ► control that maybe you yourself don't understand what's involved just to make yourself feel better
01:11:32 ◼ ► and i'm not sure that's good enough do you send i messages like where do you where do you think
01:11:38 ◼ ► they go like exactly exactly so this is i i think apple's done everything they could we'll see if
01:11:44 ◼ ► security experts have issues and if they pick this apart but they basically tried to build a thing
01:11:47 ◼ ► that is entirely their software their hardware their servers and built in a way where they can't
01:11:54 ◼ ► look at it so the whole point here is ai does not functionally have to be insecure data harvesting
01:12:03 ◼ ► all of these things yeah it is because a lot of companies hurried into the space and didn't care
01:12:08 ◼ ► and it might even be convenient for them to have all of your data but apple entered this process
01:12:18 ◼ ► on its face this seems like a great approach to this sort of thing but we'll see how the reaction
01:12:25 ◼ ► plays out so all of these features are available on m1 max and up and the iphone 15 pro and pro max
01:12:36 ◼ ► only and it is being said i don't know if apple have said this but i've seen it said now it seems
01:12:44 ◼ ► to be ram is the cut off here and it's like eight gigabytes of ram appears to be the minimum amount
01:12:49 ◼ ► of ram for a device and apple so like you know and like and maybe maybe so yeah right but i think the
01:12:57 ◼ ► simplest way to do it is think if it's an m series chip it's supported and if it is that one chip
01:13:03 ◼ ► that is on the iphone 15 pro it's supported and that's it so going forward i assume most
01:13:13 ◼ ► iphones that are new will also support this and all apple silicon max and all but that is your
01:13:19 ◼ ► question all the iphone 16s well for sure yeah but do i get this on my device it's like well if you
01:13:26 ◼ ► have an ipad or a mac and it's an m series you're good and if you've got an iphone 15 pro you're
01:13:31 ◼ ► good that's it period that's where they've drawn the line that's all it's ever going to do pull
01:13:36 ◼ ► one out for the ipad mini yep if you want to know if the ipad mini is going to get a new chip in it
01:13:47 ◼ ► whatever the next the iphone 16 chip yeah i think it'll get that so like what is that the a
01:13:54 ◼ ► 18 or something yeah i reckon it'll probably just get that and i think they will continue doing that
01:14:01 ◼ ► because the ipad mini should never use stage manager and if you put an m chip in it technically
01:14:09 ◼ ► it would then use stage manager because of the way that apple's kind of written themselves into that
01:14:14 ◼ ► box these features are on all kinds of time scales that we don't know all we know is that apple in
01:14:25 ◼ ► some version of apple intelligence stuff will be in beta in us english this summer features will
01:14:34 ◼ ► start shipping in the fall with some features rolling out over the next year but it's not
01:14:40 ◼ ► us only you just have to have your device language and serie language in us english you can just get
01:14:48 ◼ ► it straight away to start right and then they'll roll it like the question is when does this ship
01:14:53 ◼ ► and the answer is when doesn't it ship because i think this is going to be a an endless shipping
01:14:59 ◼ ► i think except today we don't have it today but it could be any time from now and then always
01:15:09 ◼ ► you know next year we'll get to wwdc and they'll say oh here's some new apple intelligence features
01:15:13 ◼ ► coming over the next year and i think it's going to be like that for quite a while but they're just
01:15:18 ◼ ► going to keep and they can they can afford to do that and right now they have to because some of
01:15:21 ◼ ► this stuff like some of this stuff is so not there that they couldn't even show it right yeah and
01:15:27 ◼ ► and that's the stuff that's like next year but i'm okay with that because basically what they're
01:15:31 ◼ ► saying is here's our goal for the next year and then we'll see you back here at wwdc when hopefully
01:15:36 ◼ ► we've accomplished all these and we'll tell you what our next year goal is that's fine but in this
01:15:40 ◼ ► case this stuff is moving so fast that um yeah a bunch of this stuff just doesn't even exist and
01:15:46 ◼ ► they're like next year we can't even show it to you trust us uh see you next year right and it's
01:15:52 ◼ ► like okay all right so we draw a line and now we talk about chat gpt so yes apple refers to
01:16:02 ◼ ► what chat gpt does as world knowledge rather than like your knowledge which i actually think is it
01:16:13 ◼ ► as a way to delineate is yeah good right like it's trying to help everything with everything
01:16:19 ◼ ► on your device and that's about you but if you want to know something that is out on the internet
01:16:24 ◼ ► and we don't have tpts for yeah because siri does have data sources that siri has always used and
01:16:31 ◼ ► it will continue to use in this new world and i think that's good right like if they can wire up
01:16:36 ◼ ► some really good data sources they'll use that but if they come to the end of the road where they're
01:16:40 ◼ ► like oh we don't know because like you can ask when do the giants play next and it'll tell you
01:16:43 ◼ ► right you can ask about baseball statistics and and you know there's a whole bunch of stuff you
01:16:47 ◼ ► can ask siri even now and it works and that's all still going to be there but there does come that
01:16:52 ◼ ► point and i know you and i talked about this a week or two ago where it goes i found something
01:16:56 ◼ ► on the web for you i don't know and at that point there will be an opportunity to kick it out to a
01:17:04 ◼ ► different source and i want to be clear they announced chat gpt but when they are talking about
01:17:09 ◼ ► this afterward with the press what they've said is this is a a modular system other chatbot type
01:17:24 ◼ ► areas of domain knowledge that apple may not have expertise in because apple is not trying to eat
01:17:29 ◼ ► the world and consume all world knowledge and that they may add those and then other things like
01:17:34 ◼ ► google gemini sure they may be in the mix too if this sounds a little bit like a modular sort of
01:17:39 ◼ ► search engine kind of deal it kind of is like well it's kind of like when they added war from alpha
01:17:46 ◼ ► to siri yeah right yeah like you know what like also a search they added these like i mean i know
01:17:52 ◼ ► it's different but like they added these like bits where it could query right like we can go get that
01:17:58 ◼ ► from here we go just from wikipedia get this from here you know this has got to be the least um
01:18:03 ◼ ► exciting partnership announcement ever though right because it's like hey chat gpt is the best
01:18:10 ◼ ► which they said like but there will be others and here's a disclaimer at the bottom that says
01:18:16 ◼ ► everything chat gpt says may be full of garbage and uh don't trust it and it but uh partners
01:18:23 ◼ ► time right like hey do you want to go to chat for this yeah the whole thing like the workflow is
01:18:28 ◼ ► like if you say something that trigger oh and and it ships off by default let's just say that
01:18:34 ◼ ► like they didn't mention that on the on the video right it's so clearly a sign that apple wants to
01:18:40 ◼ ► people to say yeah yeah yeah chat gpt yeah yeah yeah and it sounds like they got a pretty good
01:18:44 ◼ ► deal with chat gpt and with open ai like basic requests are free um you can log in as a chat gpt
01:18:51 ◼ ► subscriber and get some extra features and be in the history and all that but by default even if
01:18:55 ◼ ► you turn it on uh you don't pay anything um i assume apple's paying them something but like
01:19:00 ◼ ► the users don't pay for it and um it's so off by default you don't pay it can't they're using uh
01:19:09 ◼ ► routing they're using like uh like it's it's kind of like the internet private routing kind of stuff
01:19:15 ◼ ► so um chat gpt doesn't know your ip address so they don't know who you are legally they can't
01:19:21 ◼ ► retain any of the data that is sent and they apple pointed that out definitively to me legally they
01:19:29 ◼ ► cannot so this is like apple has locked them up to like you can't you can't use the data you can't
01:19:35 ◼ ► track the people you can't see the ip address so they put all these limitations on open ai but open
01:19:40 ◼ ► ai is still like yeah but we want to make a deal with apple because their big competitor is google
01:19:45 ◼ ► and that's android and so they can't do that so here's an option but from apple's perspective
01:19:51 ◼ ► is like it's turned off it's got warning labels on it we're gonna have other partners too but hey
01:19:56 ◼ ► open ai is the best right now and then all of the other caveats about it's for world knowledge and
01:20:02 ◼ ► like it is it is an integration that some people might like and that i think the business world and
01:20:09 ◼ ► the tech world kind of wanted apple to do but it's couched in a way where very clearly it is the most
01:20:16 ◼ ► like this is the 10-foot pole kind of like please welcome our special guest and then you never see
01:20:23 ◼ ► them and they never get mentioned again that's what was going on with open ai it's chat gpt 4.0
01:20:31 ◼ ► is what craig said on stage right yes stage you're in the keynote um from something i would wonder is
01:20:39 ◼ ► like if you sign in with your chat gpt account i don't think they need to ask you every time
01:20:46 ◼ ► like i feel like that to me is like an implicit i think that may i think that may be the case i'm
01:20:52 ◼ ► unclear about that but i think that may be the case that once you're logged in and you're like
01:20:55 ◼ ► no no no no i'm a chat gpt subscriber that it all just is is there but but certainly but you've made
01:21:02 ◼ ► that decision about your own life at that point you know exactly but but by default every query
01:21:07 ◼ ► that might possibly go to chat gpt it's going to say do you want to do this and you can say no
01:21:12 ◼ ► and if you try to upload like it needs an image or a file or something you have to say yes i am
01:21:17 ◼ ► okay with sending them the file now legally they have to throw that file away but you still it
01:21:22 ◼ ► doesn't matter you still have to ask so there's a lot of hand wringing about oh chat gpt is terrible
01:21:27 ◼ ► um and it's like well it's off by default and nobody has to use it it's warning labeled it's
01:21:32 ◼ ► like well why did they even put it in there it's like you know what some people find it useful and
01:21:42 ◼ ► try not to think of this too much as they built this feature for open ai like they built this
01:21:50 ◼ ► feature like so that that apple intelligence can query other large language models and that
01:21:57 ◼ ► more of those even specialized ones could come in the future that it will actually make a lot of
01:22:02 ◼ ► so here's an example that was sort of suggested to me by somebody at apple which is what if there's
01:22:07 ◼ ► an llm that has been trained on medical information right what if there is some medical bot that is
01:22:15 ◼ ► has been trained by some esteemed medical institution and they're like oh yeah you know
01:22:22 ◼ ► this is actually pretty good it's way better than general knowledge in terms of finding out
01:22:25 ◼ ► information about i don't know what illness medications whatever let's just say right it
01:22:30 ◼ ► doesn't it could be anything it could be some another technical topic um you could put that
01:22:36 ◼ ► you know apple could theoretically add that to the list and then your on-device analyst would say
01:22:43 ◼ ► oh you know that seems like a question for medical bot would you like me to ask medical bot and then
01:22:49 ◼ ► it goes to the medical bot right that's the i think that's their vision here is their apple
01:23:00 ◼ ► know overarching world knowledge model on focusing on people on their devices and what they know on
01:23:06 ◼ ► the devices and the fact that they make phones and tablets and computers and and it's a part
01:23:19 ◼ ► and part of that is because they don't have any of those other things and that's probably true
01:23:25 ◼ ► and maybe they do want to do that eventually or maybe they don't i don't know i think the jury's
01:23:29 ◼ ► still out on general applicability and and trust of those things but i think that's apple's vision
01:23:36 ◼ ► is like beyond this point we're gonna have the ability to in the long run point you in the
01:23:42 ◼ ► direction of some other data source that might be able to help you with that if you want them to and
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01:26:43 ◼ ► listener this is a very emotional topic for a lot of really good reasons and i think everybody has
01:26:53 ◼ ► their own set of emotions about this one which makes it particularly complicated to talk about
01:26:58 ◼ ► like just ai in general but especially as it's applying here so we're going to attempt to talk
01:27:05 ◼ ► through some of it today and we will be talking about it for a long period of time and so it's
01:27:12 ◼ ► going to take time to think about it or get through it all so all i ask is try not to assume that
01:27:19 ◼ ► because we're talking about something how it works or our own feelings about one part or another part
01:27:24 ◼ ► and maybe not yours particular part that we're not like endorsing anything particularly right like
01:27:31 ◼ ► we're just going to talk about how we feel right now and then we'll listen to what more people have
01:27:37 ◼ ► to say and you know like and we'll move on from there you understand what i'm saying some people
01:27:41 ◼ ► feel like ai is the worst and some people feel like ai is the best and like they're very strong
01:27:46 ◼ ► feelings any ai means it's the worst and you know like and like every part in between yep can i ask
01:27:54 ◼ ► for your grace in allowing me to pull the pin out first go right ahead all right so i think
01:28:05 ◼ ► apple has built a lot of really interesting features that i really want to use but they blew it
01:28:13 ◼ ► because they created the image generation tools i am surprised that they did it and i don't even
01:28:22 ◼ ► think they did it well enough to have bothered kicking the anthill or the hornet's nest like
01:28:32 ◼ ► when i was watching them show off the beginning of image playground i felt second-hand embarrassment
01:28:40 ◼ ► like you know when you're you're you're watching a tv show of a friend or like a loved one and like
01:28:45 ◼ ► you've tried to convince them to watch this show but then something weird happens in the show and
01:28:50 ◼ ► you can kind of feel that they're a bit like why did you make me watch this show like i i felt that
01:28:55 ◼ ► way for when they were creating especially when they were creating the images of other people i
01:29:04 ◼ ► think that the images that they have made in the cartoonish style that they have chosen it doesn't
01:29:11 ◼ ► look any better than anything else that's out there it has that kind of weird gross ai style
01:29:19 ◼ ► of cartoon which doesn't look like the way a human would do it it's like like everything looks really
01:29:25 ◼ ► dark like it is like a strange kind of thing that now i think that just that style just carries
01:29:32 ◼ ► emotional baggage for a lot of people i think it is incredibly weird to the point that i don't even
01:29:38 ◼ ► understand why why would you create a system where you could make pictures of other people
01:29:47 ◼ ► why is why did that ever leave the whiteboard like let me make pictures of me why do i get to make a
01:29:54 ◼ ► picture of jason just because i have photos of jason that i can make jason look like a super
01:30:00 ◼ ► villain or i could make jason look sad in the rain like why is that a thing like awesome like
01:30:06 ◼ ► because you know what also you can just download a bunch of pictures of anyone and then you can
01:30:10 ◼ ► create images of them like just because someone being in your photo library does not give you
01:30:15 ◼ ► implicit like uh granting to create images of them no one else is doing this like none of
01:30:23 ◼ ► apple's competitors are doing this why are they the ones to do this like let me make pictures of
01:30:31 ◼ ► me make my own meme og look better than ever or like whatever but the thing that i can't believe
01:30:37 ◼ ► is that it doesn't even look good like you did all this stuff and they don't look good like why go to
01:30:44 ◼ ► the effort and aggravation for something that now i think is casting a shadow over everything else
01:30:51 ◼ ► they're doing and i just don't know if it was something they needed to do but then i'm thinking
01:30:56 ◼ ► about it and i'm like well maybe i'm wrong like maybe it's me that's wrong because so many people
01:31:03 ◼ ► including so many of my friends have uploaded their photos to these ai tools to create like
01:31:07 ◼ ► haha his fun me as an 80s character which i never did any of that because i don't want it
01:31:12 ◼ ► but so maybe i'm the one who's wrong but like i just think that this image creation is bad
01:31:17 ◼ ► enough like people don't like that but creating other human beings is like taking their facial
01:31:26 ◼ ► features and being able to ask the ai to make an image of them i just i feel like it's drawing
01:31:32 ◼ ► attention away from everything else i think it's going to color a lot of the announcement especially
01:31:36 ◼ ► in our circles i think it's already done that like i've seen so many people say like this like what i
01:31:41 ◼ ► said this looks cool but i'm not so sure about the image stuff and like the emoji are fine when they
01:31:48 ◼ ► look good as i mentioned earlier but everything else i just don't know man i don't get it i
01:31:56 ◼ ► this was the moment in the in the keynote where i reacted the most negatively um there was another
01:32:04 ◼ ► moment in the q a that happened later that i also reacted negatively to but this is in the moment of
01:32:08 ◼ ► the keynote this is it and i think that there are two those two things are the two fundamental
01:32:13 ◼ ► issues with what apple announced so yes i agree completely i i think this was a mistake i think
01:32:23 ◼ ► where you could send pictures to your friends and here's a picture of my mom as a superhero and yeah
01:32:28 ◼ ► isn't it great we're having so much fun with our phones it's so great and um again maybe we are
01:32:36 ◼ ► wrong and it is not the children who are wrong maybe we're right maybe we're wrong i don't like
01:32:42 ◼ ► it i don't think it was necessary like i do think people i do think it's fun if it's you i think
01:32:47 ◼ ► it's less fun when it's someone else i think that's the distinction it is it is interesting
01:32:52 ◼ ► that they put it so on rails and then they said you could take anybody else because that was my
01:32:56 ◼ ► immediate thought was like i don't want to see a a weird ai cartoon version of me sent back to me
01:33:01 ◼ ► i am not interested in that at all and and um i don't i don't love any of this i mean the other
01:33:08 ◼ ► thing is um so to a slight segue which is what are these models trained on so there was an event
01:33:17 ◼ ► uh a couple hours after the keynote where there was a an interview on stage with john jean andrea
01:33:23 ◼ ► and craig fedorigi it's an apple out you know it was on stage at the steve jobs theater and it was
01:33:29 ◼ ► i justine you know and i don't think she was you know given questions but it's like it's apple's
01:33:33 ◼ ► venue they were sort of trying to do john grouper's talk show but like with a captive audience of just
01:33:37 ◼ ► press which i'm not i'm not a fan i think it was a big mistake on their part but inside baseball
01:33:43 ◼ ► there was at least information in that that would have been great to give to everyone yes they
01:33:47 ◼ ► dropped information unfortunately one of the pieces of information was the question of what
01:33:51 ◼ ► were the apple models trained on and craig fedorigi said well we trained it on the open web
01:33:58 ◼ ► and then also um licensed images and licensed content and uh and in fact for some of these
01:34:06 ◼ ► photo things apple commissioned artwork in these styles that they wanted to do and use those as
01:34:14 ◼ ► part of the model training which i thought was like oh well that's an interesting story right
01:34:17 ◼ ► of like oh we're doing it the right way but the way he said it and he tried to caveat it he did
01:34:22 ◼ ► he really did but basically what he said is we're doing things the wrong way and also the right way
01:34:29 ◼ ► i know and that's not good enough right so that doesn't mean it's right like they licensed all
01:34:35 ◼ ► this content from from publishers and things and they've made some visual content but they also
01:34:42 ◼ ► just scraped the internet and when and it turns out the details are even worse which is there's
01:34:46 ◼ ► an apple search engine it's the thing that does things like spotlight searches and um but of
01:34:51 ◼ ► course apple's secretive so until today they didn't announce or yesterday they didn't announce that
01:34:57 ◼ ► there's a new thing you can put on your website that will block apple from scraping your website
01:35:03 ◼ ► for use in generative ai but until this week that was not a known thing and so apple has been doing
01:35:14 ◼ ► what all these other companies have been doing which is basically saying if it's on the internet
01:35:20 ◼ ► and it's free and open we can use it to build our model now are they doing that for images
01:35:25 ◼ ► maybe not maybe the images are all licensed but um but on that case and and you know maybe the
01:35:31 ◼ ► story will be well now that it's out if anybody you know puts that in we will do a retraining
01:35:37 ◼ ► at a later date and all that stuff will come out i mean maybe that's the case but it's still opt out
01:35:42 ◼ ► where i mean who's gonna even know the model is built like the model's built you know and now
01:35:47 ◼ ► they're training on new stuff yeah so if you truly believed that you needed to get licenses from the
01:35:54 ◼ ► news you know from the news providers and all the other content providers then why did you also
01:35:59 ◼ ► train your model i think the answer is expediency they just did it just like everybody else did
01:36:04 ◼ ► and i think it was casey newton um who pointed out like that statement went by and like are we
01:36:10 ◼ ► just all okay with the idea that any tech company can take the entire web and all the content on it
01:36:16 ◼ ► and nobody's granted them a license and they can just use it to build a whole system on their
01:36:21 ◼ ► devices that they sell very so it is it is because they had this is the bottom line is i think you
01:36:28 ◼ ► look at this event here my feelings you look at this event you think apple's trying to do the
01:36:35 ◼ ► right thing however there are a bunch of extenuating factors one is they're caught a little flat-footed
01:36:42 ◼ ► on some of this stuff and they are struggling to catch up and they feel like they're at a
01:36:46 ◼ ► disadvantage to some of their arch competitors and they don't want to blow it also there's the
01:36:50 ◼ ► silicon valley bubble of whether it's business and investors um or you know just the the peers
01:36:58 ◼ ► of the people who work at apple ai has has a been a buzzword and there's a feeling even among like
01:37:05 ◼ ► especially among like investors and and and other types in the industry that like apple needs to show
01:37:11 ◼ ► that they're not behind and if you look at the response in those areas they're very happy that
01:37:16 ◼ ► apple made these announcements but the challenge is a lot of the things that apple needed to do
01:37:20 ◼ ► if you wanted to please those people have these downsides and so apple ends up kind of stuck
01:37:27 ◼ ► between a rock and a hard place where they're trying to do the right thing but they also want
01:37:30 ◼ ► to be perceived as being in with the cool kids and what frustrates me is a lot of what they did
01:37:38 ◼ ► is exactly the right thing to do a lot of it is be the adult in the room do features don't just
01:37:44 ◼ ► throw things at the wall and say here's a chat bot do whatever but like build features and ui
01:37:49 ◼ ► have it be privacy based have it be on your device and they went above and beyond build a server
01:37:56 ◼ ► profile and operating system so that you can offload some of this stuff that can't be done
01:38:02 ◼ ► on the device to cloud servers that you control but you can't look into and build security in an
01:38:10 ◼ ► ai cloud like they did all of that stuff right and it's like good this is all to the good good
01:38:16 ◼ ► job apple don't go with the bad kids don't go to that party with a bad kid stay at home and do your
01:38:21 ◼ ► homework and then they're like but but the cool kids invited me to the party right and so you end
01:38:29 ◼ ► up with this you know here's our model that we trained and here's our generative ai thing that
01:38:34 ◼ ► even if it wasn't trained on artists who didn't give their consent even if it was trained on you
01:38:40 ◼ ► know stock imagery and things that apple hired first off i think if it was they would have said
01:38:46 ◼ ► so more prominently like that's that's the part of this is like open web some of the stuff they
01:38:50 ◼ ► they didn't say they didn't which means they did right some of that is just like that's what it is
01:38:56 ◼ ► so and even if they did the way it looks i just think is unfortunate because it looks like weird
01:39:01 ◼ ► ai art that we all know and and some of the things i saw somebody point out and quite rightly
01:39:06 ◼ ► like there's this beautiful sketch in the architecture notebook and part of the demo of
01:39:10 ◼ ► like what this temple looks like and then like yeah we can circle it and generatively make a
01:39:15 ◼ ► an image a photorealistic image of that temple and it's like the sketch was better yeah sketch
01:39:20 ◼ ► was nicer the sketch had more of a that thing it was nevin morgan yeah and they were oh but
01:39:26 ◼ ► we replaced it with a generative thing it's like great so that's my feeling is that they're they're
01:39:32 ◼ ► they're like they're trying and they're trying to thread a needle here where they they show because
01:39:39 ◼ ► it isn't just what are your features it's also show you're in the game and show you're making
01:39:45 ◼ ► progress and it's easy for somebody who doesn't work at apple and doesn't have stock options and
01:39:49 ◼ ► isn't in the industry to say oh just ignore all of that it's hard for them to do it and i i can see
01:39:55 ◼ ► that if you've got a fiduciary responsibility maybe you need to feel you need to gen you need
01:39:59 ◼ ► to demonstrate to the market and to your investors that you do get it but there are moments i guess
01:40:06 ◼ ► in the end i don't know if it all could have been avoided because some of this stuff like the model
01:40:11 ◼ ► they're using for apple intelligence it was trained on the open web it just was they're
01:40:14 ◼ ► going to have to cop to it but i felt like with the generative without image playgrounds especially
01:40:20 ◼ ► they didn't need to do that they could have left it at the genmojis and it would have been fine
01:40:27 ◼ ► i don't think everybody was like oh they need their own dali right like no no let chat gpt do
01:40:32 ◼ ► that stuff you just stay away from it and there are moments where they just got tempted yeah
01:40:38 ◼ ► they're like oh we could do this and those are the ones that i think you know that eventually
01:40:42 ◼ ► they're going to wish they could have had back you know let's say let's go back to the the text right
01:40:46 ◼ ► because that's the open web stuff that's where i think they're talking about specifically
01:40:50 ◼ ► text right like they went out they scraped the internet with their robots and they created their
01:40:55 ◼ ► large language learning model yeah maybe look i'm not the smart one here but let's just say for the
01:41:01 ◼ ► sake of argument the only way that you can do this is to do that but i had still hoped that they
01:41:09 ◼ ► would do something different like i understand what i say is i understand that that might be
01:41:14 ◼ ► the only way that you can do it and be good like i understand that that might just be it but i had
01:41:19 ◼ ► hoped that the richest well or second richest company in the world had the ability to to do
01:41:27 ◼ ► it differently and you know what maybe they would have if they wouldn't have started on this stuff
01:41:32 ◼ ► nine months ago or whatever you know like but i it just it just bugs me that i was the whole time
01:41:40 ◼ ► we've been leading up to this has just been a thing in my mind where i'm like surely they'll
01:41:44 ◼ ► do it differently like it kind of wasn't really a thought in my mind that they would have just done
01:41:50 ◼ ► it like everybody else did but it really seems like they just did it how everyone else did
01:42:00 ◼ ► you know okay fine yeah good and again you know maybe it's true that nobody cares but i care right
01:42:07 ◼ ► like i i don't think building your building your feature on content you don't own that that they
01:42:20 ◼ ► haven't you know they haven't given you an explicit right to do is i i question whether
01:42:28 ◼ ► that's the right thing to do and it especially bothers me with artists and maybe the answer is
01:42:32 ◼ ► that you know nobody else cares and it's and it's fine but um but i i think that's an esoteric point
01:42:38 ◼ ► in some ways i think the larger point is is not like just that they're they're taking content but
01:42:43 ◼ ► it's that you know a lot of the tenor of ai stuff is oh you don't even need to use an artist anymore
01:42:48 ◼ ► you can just use an ai thing to build art for you and don't pay an artist and i don't i think
01:42:53 ◼ ► apple didn't step in that i think apple's image playgrounds thing is very much like this is just
01:42:58 ◼ ► for messing around with friends and there's a reason for that like that said they did say they
01:43:04 ◼ ► did put it in the keynote i was like don't know so much about that but they were trying to soft
01:43:09 ◼ ► pedal it but again i just my feeling is this some of this was probably inevitable because of the way
01:43:26 ◼ ► you know uh james thompson just said in our discord oh no a 3.1 trillion dollar company
01:43:31 ◼ ► might be a 2.9 trillion dollar company but it's like the incentives are misaligned the people who
01:43:35 ◼ ► run apple are you know have stock options their their incentive at least in part is to you know
01:43:43 ◼ ► keep the stock up and we want we all want apple to be better than that right and i think that
01:43:49 ◼ ► apple has core beliefs and apple does a better job than most companies at following them but
01:43:56 ◼ ► there are limits and like ai is very energy intensive and you know they wanna they want to
01:44:05 ◼ ► talk about um leaving the world a better place and having you know being able to offset all of
01:44:12 ◼ ► the energy use of their devices but like it doesn't change the fact that if you're loading
01:44:17 ◼ ► your device up with ai models you're going to be using a lot of power on devices that will then
01:44:22 ◼ ► need to be charged and you're going to use a lot of power in the data center even if you're using
01:44:26 ◼ ► efficient apple silicon servers they're still using a lot of power and like there comes a
01:44:33 ◼ ► moment where they're like yeah we know but we gotta we feel we gotta do this like this is the
01:44:38 ◼ ► time we can't we can't let this go and i think in the long run what they may be thinking is if we
01:44:43 ◼ ► let this go it might be an existential crisis for apple that if android gets leans into this stuff
01:44:50 ◼ ► and it proves to be a game changer it's not gonna matter that apple stuck up for what was right
01:44:56 ◼ ► because apple will go out of business because the iphone will be killed by android and i know that's
01:45:01 ◼ ► an extreme view but i can see why people at apple would feel that way i genuinely believe we are at
01:45:09 ◼ ► the first time in the history of the iphone where that has actually become a possibility i believe
01:45:13 ◼ ► that that is a possibility that yes if apple said we're not doing this then they run the risk of
01:45:21 ◼ ► losing their business from the iphone because and as you're talking about this incentives you know
01:45:27 ◼ ► you said about the incentives thing like i i i understand you know they they maybe and i understand
01:45:34 ◼ ► the idea that they care about watery and wall street care that i get that i also imagine a
01:45:38 ◼ ► scenario where the incentives of we want to be the best technology company in the world for consumers
01:45:45 ◼ ► i believe today that does include ai because it's people want these features and they want them more
01:45:55 ◼ ► and they want them faster you can see how these these these these apps these services are being
01:46:01 ◼ ► used and they are being used by people that do not listen to this show and right like they need
01:46:08 ◼ ► to be in this world i think we both just hoped that they would that because this is the thing
01:46:15 ◼ ► which annoys me so many of the things we've spoken about in this episode are the exact example of
01:46:20 ◼ ► doing things the apple way but then they did some stuff not their way and it that's right and and
01:46:27 ◼ ► that's what overshadows everything because you did things bad ways and not even really good enough
01:46:35 ◼ ► yeah i think if we're if we're gonna so if if we're down on some of this stuff and i yeah like
01:46:43 ◼ ► image playgrounds i just i don't i don't like it i don't like the idea of it i just don't like it
01:46:47 ◼ ► um i think that the whole generative image thing like genmoji is as far as i'm willing to go right
01:46:53 ◼ ► now um the other i would say so the the little array of sunshine here is if you are somebody
01:47:02 ◼ ► who believes as i've heard lots of people say this week that ai hype is like bitcoin hype it's like
01:47:10 ◼ ► blockchain hype it's just another thing that the tech industry is doing to get a bunch of suckers
01:47:14 ◼ ► on board and make a lot of money and then it's not going to pan out either and they're going to leave
01:47:20 ◼ ► other people holding the bag and the tech people are going to count their money and go on to the
01:47:24 ◼ ► next uh you know ponzi scheme that they're going to do next whatever it is okay um i'm i'm not a
01:47:34 ◼ ► i'm not convinced that general knowledge ai chat bots are going to take off like i i think that
01:47:45 ◼ ► there is definitely an argument that there are limits to what they're doing and that what seems
01:47:50 ◼ ► like exponential growth now may in two or three years prove to have been a mirage and that they
01:48:05 ◼ ► you got a hedge what if they are and so apples put they're probably building their own in
01:48:13 ◼ ► internally in case they need to no longer partner with open ai right um but they put open ai in
01:48:20 ◼ ► there they put chat gbt in there they're like all right well you know what in two or three years if
01:48:24 ◼ ► this doesn't pan out and it's all dumb they'll just take it out because they've got their other
01:48:28 ◼ ► models and if their other models are more limited and it turns out that that's actually what the
01:48:32 ◼ ► future is is a whole bunch of limited models that are focused on things like your user's data set
01:48:37 ◼ ► and your context and that there are other ways to get the knowledge out there but that the gpts
01:48:55 ◼ ► into the operating system it's at arm's length and if it's a big nothing it'll be a big nothing
01:49:00 ◼ ► and it'll fall away if it's huge they can't be late to it so so i think there are reasons for
01:49:06 ◼ ► some people to be disappointed in apple this week even though i think a lot of what they did is
01:49:11 ◼ ► absolutely the most apple-like thing they could choose to do but i think there are places where
01:49:21 ◼ ► apple has said you know we gotta be we gotta be careful here because if we are left too far behind
01:49:28 ◼ ► we will never catch up and and and so when you see them do things that might disappoint you i think
01:49:35 ◼ ► that's one of the one of the things that's going on but what i didn't see is them betting the house
01:49:40 ◼ ► on it right i didn't see them saying yes chat gpt is the future oh my god everything they're like
01:49:50 ◼ ► even after we warn you that we're using them about the results being unreliable but we're going to do
01:49:56 ◼ ► it and that is them like because the fact is people are like well they should just not do that so you
01:50:01 ◼ ► know some the fact is some people do want that some people want that stuff and use that stuff
01:50:07 ◼ ► and and you don't have to like it but um at this point it may be more like a dangerous toy but
01:50:19 ◼ ► because maybe it's more than a toy and if it turns out just to be a dangerous toy that doesn't have
01:50:29 ◼ ► doesn't grow and change and improve i firmly believe they will back away from it entirely
01:50:35 ◼ ► but they can't afford to pretend it doesn't exist and so you're left with this cognitive dissonance
01:50:41 ◼ ► which is apple's doing some stuff the right way and then you look at this other stuff and you're
01:50:45 ◼ ► like well what the heck apple what's that about and they're like yeah well gotta do that too
01:50:50 ◼ ► and that's just that is the contradiction of this entire thing shall we leave that here for this week
01:50:58 ◼ ► sure i'm sure we'll get a lot of feedback and we'll chew it over and we'll have more thoughts
01:51:06 ◼ ► six hourly basis right now so there's going to be more stuff that comes out there's going to be more
01:51:11 ◼ ► interviews and there's going to be more thoughts but i think for now i think we me and you at least
01:51:18 ◼ ► i feel like i've said the main things i wanted to say today yeah i i have one more thing to say
01:51:23 ◼ ► which is um i am as tired as everybody else is of people saying that ai chatbots are the future
01:51:32 ◼ ► and that if you don't have them you're behind and that they're obviously going to change the world
01:51:37 ◼ ► because i have great skepticism about that and i think it's good to be skeptical maybe they will
01:51:42 ◼ ► or maybe not i also am tired of people who view all machine learning and ai stuff as a con and a
01:51:51 ◼ ► scam that doesn't have value because that's not true either and i see those people out there too
01:51:56 ◼ ► and i'm just tired of that too like uh you know the the reaction in some circles to the stuff
01:52:04 ◼ ► that apple announced is like everybody apple announced that they wanna that they realized
01:52:09 ◼ ► they need to make siri a lot better and contextual and understand what you've been talking about with
01:52:14 ◼ ► them and saying hey you know do this thing now and send it to that guy and have that actually work
01:52:20 ◼ ► like that's good and there are a bunch of other good features that are tried and true so i would
01:52:25 ◼ ► say don't not all machine learning and ai is the same not all machine learning and ai stuff is
01:52:34 ◼ ► fundamentally inhuman and unreliable not all ai and machine learning is coming for our jobs or
01:52:41 ◼ ► to kill all humans or whatever there it's it's complicated and there's good and bad and i think
01:52:49 ◼ ► my frustrations with some of what apple has announced is that i think some of what apple's
01:52:52 ◼ ► doing is leaning into the bad because they feel they have to but there's also a lot where they're
01:52:56 ◼ ► trying to do the right thing and like the private cloud thing the private cloud compute is amazing
01:53:00 ◼ ► right that is a huge amount of work a huge endeavor that they've undertaken to try to get
01:53:05 ◼ ► the benefit of big ai features for users without basically selling them out and that is to be
01:53:14 ◼ ► commended i think based on what we know now but i guess what i'm just saying is it's complicated
01:53:20 ◼ ► and so let's all kind of keep an open mind to the fact that some of this stuff is probably good and
01:53:24 ◼ ► some of it is bad and that the best thing to do is try to pick apart as difficult as that is
01:53:29 ◼ ► what's good and what's bad and um and and we'll see where it goes hopefully someplace good hopefully
01:53:35 ◼ ► not someplace terrible but we'll see yeah i i do believe that the future of technology is based on
01:53:45 ◼ ► technology built on large language models that's not a chatbot necessarily maybe that is but you
01:53:52 ◼ ► know i i think a lot of the stuff that i love that is in apple intelligence is exactly that they're
01:53:58 ◼ ► building a model of my own stuff and helping me pick things out of it it's not a chatbot it's just
01:54:04 ◼ ► doing things from on my device i think it is like that that is like a it's an underpinning to the
01:54:09 ◼ ► next level of technology but it's not going to be chatbots or maybe chatbots become so incredible
01:54:15 ◼ ► that maybe it's chatbots but i think i'm with you which is like it doesn't mean it's all good it
01:54:20 ◼ ► doesn't mean it's all bad but like this is this is where we're going and so i think that there is
01:54:26 ◼ ► something about trying to find the thing that you like i think you've got to i think we've got to
01:54:34 ◼ ► try and find some things that are of use to us or you can say i don't want anything to do with any
01:54:40 ◼ ► of this but it really does mean i think that it kind of steps you out of technology a little bit
01:54:47 ◼ ► now and maybe you're okay with that but i know i'm not because it's what i love yeah apple's walking
01:54:52 ◼ ► the tightrope here that's the other thing i guess to keep in mind is that is that apple and apple's
01:54:57 ◼ ► executives can't just say oh no we're not going to do that like there would be deep consequences to
01:55:01 ◼ ► that and they're trying to not just do the right thing but also make sure that the business
01:55:05 ◼ ► continues to exist and battle all existential threats and if you believe that the car was sort
01:55:10 ◼ ► of a what what if let's spend our money on it and especially a vision pro is a but what if they
01:55:15 ◼ ► replace uh the the iphone with glasses we need to be there and be our own replacement if that's the
01:55:20 ◼ ► case well ai is one of those it is an existential threat too if you make an iphone uh how do you you
01:55:26 ◼ ► know is it not relevant anymore if apps don't matter because everything's just run by the ai
01:55:32 ◼ ► and like that's bad for apple so they're like okay we have to we have to be a part of that
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01:58:08 ◼ ► let's move on to brighter things mac os sequoia so i have another six months of trying to learn
01:58:16 ◼ ► how to spell this because who knows it uses every vowel so that's exciting who knows what order they
01:58:22 ◼ ► go in uh there's a bunch of features added to continuity one of the best is iphone mirroring
01:58:29 ◼ ► so on your mac absolutely you can fully interact with everything on your iphone your iphone stays
01:58:35 ◼ ► locked if you've got it in a in a charging thing it will stay on standby mode if that's the thing
01:58:40 ◼ ► love it i wish i could do this on my ipad and my vision pro as well while we're at it sure you know
01:58:45 ◼ ► sure sure yeah if you flip if you uh unlock it it disconnects right but if if it's running it
01:58:51 ◼ ► will either be in standby or in the lock screen and there'll be a little alert on the lock screen
01:58:55 ◼ ► that says this is being controlled by a by a mac um but it's a it's a great feature i mean never
01:59:01 ◼ ► underestimate apple's finding value in the mac by integrating iphone features like the iphone is the
01:59:08 ◼ ► crown jewels essentially and like if they can make the mac work better with the iphone then that is a
01:59:13 ◼ ► benefit to the mac and so they're doing that a lot and this is like you could always you could from
01:59:19 ◼ ► last year you could run widgets right iphone widgets on your mac that actually were on your
01:59:23 ◼ ► iphone but now with this feature if you click on that widget to interact with it or to like it
01:59:28 ◼ ► can just launch the iphone in a window and uh launch that app right and you can just you can
01:59:33 ◼ ► use apps it's a continuity feature so it needs to use it needs to be in bluetooth range to connect
01:59:37 ◼ ► but then it uses wi-fi to do um the screen sharing and it's high frame rate um and high bit rate and
01:59:47 ◼ ► it will do audio as well as video um it's got some controls so if you you know you can click on the
01:59:54 ◼ ► bar at the bottom to go back to the home screen but there's also like a little toolbar where you
01:59:58 ◼ ► can go back out to the home screen um if something goes in you know in a rotated orientation it will
02:00:04 ◼ ► auto rotate like it's just very it's just very clever um and uh notifications will put in the
02:00:11 ◼ ► notification center and it's for an app that's on your iphone again you click on it it just opens
02:00:15 ◼ ► the window with the iphone app on it and i just i like it it's it's super smart um if you rely on
02:00:22 ◼ ► your iphone for stuff that's not on your mac but you don't have to switch to your iphone you can
02:00:26 ◼ ► use the keyboard and the mouse and the trackpad gestures and all that stuff just comes along
02:00:31 ◼ ► and coming later will be uh what seems like a seamless like drag and drop of of of like content
02:00:40 ◼ ► between devices too yeah there's into files or anything else or safari or like apple's apps that
02:00:47 ◼ ► use it and anybody else that uses the drag and drop api for files it will just work that way too
02:00:52 ◼ ► so you could literally just drag a file in and it it opens it up very cool uh window tiling on the
02:01:00 ◼ ► mac so you can drag windows to corners and areas and they'll snap into place and there's a bunch
02:01:05 ◼ ► of keyboard shortcuts great yeah and there's also more stuff under click and hold under the little
02:01:09 ◼ ► green um button in the upper left corner to auto you know tile your oh nice stuff they finally got
02:01:17 ◼ ► again this should have happened five years ago but they've finally gotten like windows has done this
02:01:21 ◼ ► a long time with the tiling game of just like sometimes you just want to drag something in
02:01:24 ◼ ► the corner and say just take up this side of the screen and not have to deal with resizing it and
02:01:28 ◼ ► all of those things and i know there are a lot of utilities that do this well i don't know what to
02:01:34 ◼ ► tell you i this should be an os feature and and now it is and those utilities will still find
02:01:39 ◼ ► ways to survive doing all the things that apple didn't bother to implement and never will but it
02:01:44 ◼ ► is funny like apple continues to deal with window management on the mac they just there's always a
02:01:49 ◼ ► new approach to window management on the mac i'm sure that those the apple's tool is not as
02:01:55 ◼ ► granular as many of the third-party tools can get in size and placement and stuff like that
02:02:16 ◼ ► it says i think you put this note in the document jason that now to get to the to safari reader you
02:02:22 ◼ ► have to click twice on that button which is weird the little button where it says reader that goes
02:02:27 ◼ ► in that becomes the summary button and you click and a little summary pane comes down with all that
02:02:31 ◼ ► information and then there's one there's a button on there that says you know open in reader so you
02:02:36 ◼ ► know that is an interesting choice they made i think that makes sense like i think you would
02:02:44 ◼ ► it would be interesting to have that information and then read like to me that makes sense anyway
02:02:48 ◼ ► but maybe that's the kind of person i am um the reader itself does have some new features too
02:02:55 ◼ ► uh like a table of contents and the summaries uh and the summaries are created on device on
02:03:01 ◼ ► uh apple silicon max yeah so the the summary that you see in the pane is actually a spotlight
02:03:08 ◼ ► summary it's from their search engine it's a thing that's already existed but if you go to reader and
02:03:12 ◼ ► they they do like a toc and a summary of the document that is generated on device that's
02:03:17 ◼ ► an apple intelligence feature and viewer is now reader mode for video right essentially
02:03:24 ◼ ► yeah they built in they built in so like if you're on a web page that's got a video and you want to
02:03:30 ◼ ► pop it out and you can just do it the web page doesn't have to let you do it it'll it'll just do
02:03:36 ◼ ► it should talk about ipad os yeah so ipad os 18 uh got a bunch of features in notes that also
02:03:47 ◼ ► iphone gets some of these features too in different ways but there a lot of them are enhanced by the
02:03:53 ◼ ► pencil one is smart script where it essentially learns your handwriting makes your handwriting
02:03:59 ◼ ► look better but retaining your style so like smoothing things out a little bit um i've been
02:04:04 ◼ ► trying to get this to work on my ipad mini but it just keeps telling me it needs to be connected to
02:04:09 ◼ ► wi-fi to download but i don't know what i need to do to get it to do that but that's just beta life
02:04:14 ◼ ► you know uh but you can then like you can copy text and paste it in your handwriting you can
02:04:20 ◼ ► edit your handwriting like it's text i think this is a very very cool feature that i'm very excited
02:04:25 ◼ ► to check out whenever it will work for me yeah if you misspell a word in your handwriting you
02:04:30 ◼ ► can actually it'll get a little underlined and you can have it be corrected and then it
02:04:33 ◼ ► corrects it in what looks like your handwriting yeah um live audio transcription is here too
02:04:40 ◼ ► um i think that in notes i don't think it's done with apple intelligence i think or maybe it is
02:04:46 ◼ ► i'm not sure it has yeah it may not be but it may just be the regular transcription engine i don't
02:04:51 ◼ ► know but it's the idea that you can just if you're on a lecture or something you can just uh
02:04:55 ◼ ► start recording in notes and uh in the end you'll get a transcribed version of the audio file and
02:05:01 ◼ ► then we have math notes which math notes might be my favorite feature of any feature they have
02:05:09 ◼ ► announced i think this is an absolutely incredible tool where i think it works better with apple
02:05:17 ◼ ► pencil at least from the way that i work like i very frequently if i'm trying to work out a problem
02:05:23 ◼ ► like a money thing or just numbers or whatever i like to sit and draw them out what i like so what
02:05:31 ◼ ► math notes does you just write out the sums and it calculates them for you it can do uh currency
02:05:38 ◼ ► trans uh like um currency transactions too like conversions uh you can also type stuff out in
02:05:45 ◼ ► notes as well you can kind of like define things and then create sums out of them so you could be
02:05:50 ◼ ► like item a costs 100 item b cost 200 item a plus item b equals and it will do it for you like
02:06:02 ◼ ► i think this is a really impressive feature that is done so well i mean and this is in the
02:06:11 ◼ ► brand new calculator app which is on ipad os but also it features in notes too notes has
02:06:17 ◼ ► these features you can just do it in notes yeah exactly right yeah i think this is an incredible
02:06:22 ◼ ► thing and it doesn't just work with apple pencil you can actually do this in like text too in there
02:06:27 ◼ ► where you can you can put in a problem and put the equal sign and it'll give you an answer which is
02:06:31 ◼ ► pretty neat um there is a redesigned tab bar inside of ipad apps which is customizable it's
02:06:41 ◼ ► kind of like a floating bar it looks like tv os um like the way that tv os looks you've got like
02:06:47 ◼ ► a kind of bar on the top but then it kind of like becomes the sidebar when you open the sidebar
02:06:53 ◼ ► and there's a little bit of editability to it yeah you can you can have if you've got an item that
02:06:57 ◼ ► you want up there in that floating tab bar you can drag you can edit it and drag it up there
02:07:02 ◼ ► and then it you see it's a customizable tab this is another sort of like well one of it's sort of
02:07:07 ◼ ► like a menu bar but not really um it's content segmentation so it's it's the usual thing where
02:07:12 ◼ ► apple is like oh this lets your content uh come to the fore and like okay all right it does it's
02:07:19 ◼ ► i'll need to use it and and and see but it's another tweak where they're like let's just get
02:07:33 ◼ ► yeah you know this is this is a really quick one like the problem with so many document oriented
02:07:38 ◼ ► ipad apps is when they open it looks like you just open files and you other than like the name in the
02:07:44 ◼ ► corner and the color you can't even tell and so they redesigned it so that the top half of the
02:07:49 ◼ ► window is like branding for whatever app it is and then the bottom half has the details of like
02:07:55 ◼ ► opening a file in that app and i think literally it's because a lot of users and i've done this too
02:08:01 ◼ ► you open an app that is opens to the document browser and it's using the files document
02:08:06 ◼ ► browser interface but it's in that app you open and you're like wait a second am i in files now
02:08:10 ◼ ► and so they've tried to give it a little more branding so you know oh this is numbers or oh
02:08:16 ◼ ► this is pages or whatever federico uh i saw him comment and he wrote in his article about this too
02:08:24 ◼ ► which is that ipad os this year basically got two features that were unique to it which are those
02:08:31 ◼ ► two that we just mentioned um and my thought was that is sad but hey at least you didn't have to
02:08:38 ◼ ► wait a year for the home screen customization which is the normal way of things so yeah yeah
02:08:44 ◼ ► no i was i was impressed that the ipad actually got that feature because i thought we'd have to
02:08:48 ◼ ► wait a year but that you know ipad does benefit from a ton of stuff that we've mentioned i think
02:08:56 ◼ ► this year really feels like more of a by and large like a a like a sys overall systems year because
02:09:05 ◼ ► of apple intelligence sure but there are some things that each operating system gets that are
02:09:11 ◼ ► unique to it even if there aren't that many you know like the what we just like the mac got two
02:09:16 ◼ ► features i mean i think they are arguably more impressive features than the features that ipad
02:09:21 ◼ ► os got like iphone mirroring a window tiling but nevertheless you know it may be a little slim
02:09:27 ◼ ► pickings and some of this stuff this episode of upgrade is brought to you by vitally customer
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02:10:57 ◼ ► yep it's true you can for a day for a week for a month until an arbitrary time just pause them
02:11:04 ◼ ► and your streaks are intact like it's kind of one of the things where it's like i don't understand
02:11:10 ◼ ► why it took 10 years like this is great but like why did this take 10 years like it's like you know
02:11:17 ◼ ► if i if i break my ankle i can't hit my goals so i lose my goals it's not fair so i'm happy that
02:11:24 ◼ ► they've done this um and they've also taken this as a chance to you know to allow you to adjust your
02:11:30 ◼ ► goals by day and stuff like that so they've done a little bit there um which is interesting there's
02:11:37 ◼ ► a new training load system so uh it will be able to rate and let you know how intense any workouts
02:11:43 ◼ ► you've done are yeah um they're like 17 different workout types where they will actually um make a
02:11:49 ◼ ► guess about how intense that workout was you can also change it if you disagree and then they use
02:11:54 ◼ ► that to sort of see how's your intensity working over time it's almost like an understanding of the
02:11:58 ◼ ► fact that it will change from day to day but the general trends are you know are they upward or
02:12:03 ◼ ► are they downward yep uh the vitals app looks really cool um this requires that you wear your
02:12:10 ◼ ► watch while you're sleeping and um you will get an overview of a selection of health metrics
02:12:16 ◼ ► heart rate respiratory rate risk temperature blood oxygen and sleep data uh i use sleep plus plus
02:12:23 ◼ ► from previously mentioned uh underscore and i believe that this is what underscore is using
02:12:28 ◼ ► all of this stuff to create the readiness score that sleep plus plus gives you it's like a score
02:12:34 ◼ ► how ready are you for your day and it's using these metrics but what apple is doing here is
02:12:39 ◼ ► they're also creating a baseline for you and letting you know if things are changing either
02:12:46 ◼ ► once or there's a trend and you could i guess you could use other data points in health to try and
02:12:51 ◼ ► draw some patterns you know i was i was talking to some friends over the weekend um they're both
02:12:57 ◼ ► watch people and we were talking about watches and stuff like that and i was just saying to them like
02:13:08 ◼ ► but i've kind of gotten to the point in my life where it feels like it is irresponsible to not
02:13:13 ◼ ► wear an apple watch from what it does for your health and how it tracks your health and this is
02:13:18 ◼ ► just another one of those things where it's like another thing that my watch is looking out for me
02:13:22 ◼ ► for to see if something's going on with my health and to try and give me some indications as to what
02:13:28 ◼ ► might be affecting me uh and so yeah i think this is really cool i dig this feature a lot um because
02:13:35 ◼ ► this is you know one of my main frustrations for some of apple's health stuff is they're like
02:13:39 ◼ ► hey this thing changed and you don't really know what that means but this does feel like that
02:13:45 ◼ ► they're going to try and with this system at least try and base it on other things and make
02:13:49 ◼ ► some recommendations to you at least i hope so anyway yeah i i get a strong sense from this of
02:13:55 ◼ ► that usual like apple doesn't want to talk about medical things because then they would need to be
02:13:59 ◼ ► regulated medically and so the examples they all give are very vague um and i think that that's why
02:14:07 ◼ ► i think they want to warn you about things but not tell you what those might be because they would
02:14:12 ◼ ► then have a whole other raft of regulations that they would have to do so it's like oh maybe you
02:14:17 ◼ ► drank a lot last night um maybe but like they a lot of the claims it's just weird talking to apple
02:14:25 ◼ ► about about watch stuff because they they don't want to make certain kinds of claims even though
02:14:29 ◼ ► that's probably what motivated them so anyway it's nice to have a trend a trend view if you're
02:14:34 ◼ ► somebody they say uh sleeping is a great time to take take your vitals actually so that's why they
02:14:39 ◼ ► do it that way is they get they got a bunch of time for you to um be you know still so that they
02:14:46 ◼ ► can measure you and then compare you to previous days and it's a 28 day i think uh uh thing that
02:14:52 ◼ ► it's doing but yeah anyway yeah and the smart stack will now surface relevant widgets like if
02:14:59 ◼ ► it's raining it could show you a weather widget um yep and it also features live activities which
02:15:04 ◼ ► i'm sure when they announced this feature initially they said it would have live activities
02:15:09 ◼ ► in it but that didn't happen um which is great like so there if i've got a car coming or food
02:15:15 ◼ ► coming or whatever i want my smart stack on my apple watch to show me that information because
02:15:20 ◼ ► it's completely relevant to where i am exactly right they have the uh developers don't even need
02:15:26 ◼ ► to build another widget for it because it uses what's in the dynamic island as the genius um smart
02:15:33 ◼ ► stack item very cool and finally vision os 2 yeah it happened so here are the features for vision os
02:15:44 ◼ ► 2 uh spatial photos from 2d images so i tried this out today blown away by this it doesn't even need
02:15:54 ◼ ► to be a photo you took on an iphone like it can be photos from other cameras yeah because they do the
02:16:00 ◼ ► segmentation thing where they pull it out they do that it's actually very similar to what they do
02:16:04 ◼ ► with um apple watch where they put the text around the the the a 2d image but they pull out the person
02:16:12 ◼ ► and then they can put the text behind their head and stuff like that it's like that they basically
02:16:16 ◼ ► find the subject and then they fake it so that you can get a spatial effect from it i'm sure joe steel
02:16:22 ◼ ► will uh hate it it looks to me it looks good like i thought it looked fun i was making some of these
02:16:28 ◼ ► from photos from some of our live shows of like photos i'd taken from stage of of like us on stage
02:16:34 ◼ ► and i thought it looked great i thought it was a lot of fun best way to look at a photo no but a
02:16:39 ◼ ► fun way to look at a photo there are new gestures to access home control center and to see the time
02:16:47 ◼ ► and battery these take a minute to get used to but i'm really happy that they exist you kind of have
02:16:54 ◼ ► to raise your hand and look at your hand and then a little like circle appears you can then tap your
02:17:00 ◼ ► finger together and it will take you to the home or you turn your hand over and then it brings up
02:17:06 ◼ ► a little time and battery which you can then tap to bring to open control center takes a minute i
02:17:13 ◼ ► like it but they're great like because this is getting rid of two really awkward interactions
02:17:24 ◼ ► you can rearrange apps we already mentioned panoramic mac virtual display so like a huge
02:17:32 ◼ ► mac monitor that will be coming a keyboard pass through for magic keyboard and macbook so you're
02:17:38 ◼ ► in a full environment and it can see those i really wished that they just pushed that apple
02:17:42 ◼ ► intelligence a little further and made that all keyboards mouse support and what i love about
02:17:49 ◼ ► this is this even includes when you're using mac like when you're in mac virtual display it will
02:17:54 ◼ ► use the mouse that's connected to your mac to control things on vision os guest mode now saves
02:18:01 ◼ ► eye and hand data from your most recent guest so if you you know someone could keep trying it which
02:18:06 ◼ ► is great there's more immersive video content coming from apple and some others and basically
02:18:14 ◼ ► all via apple but they've announced partnerships of canon and black magic to create specific
02:18:20 ◼ ► hardware for creating professional spatial and immersive content and they announced vision pro
02:18:25 ◼ ► international availability rolling out over the next couple of weeks so throughout june yeah you'll
02:18:30 ◼ ► be legit soon i'll be able to buy the second solo band to do the solo top thing that everybody tries
02:18:36 ◼ ► nice enjoy that it's good and i can stop worrying about breaking it because i'll be able to take it
02:18:42 ◼ ► to you can have access to all of your apps and subscriptions and stuff that's going to take some
02:18:46 ◼ ► time but yeah i'll be able to do that too um so i reset up my persona and it has not fixed my issue
02:18:52 ◼ ► so my mouse still does not move but you can customize the glasses now so nice that's good
02:18:58 ◼ ► i would say all of this is really great and would have been a really great vision os 1.5
02:19:05 ◼ ► i i and i'm not saying this is bad i think all of these features are fantastic it just doesn't
02:19:12 ◼ ► really feel like a two you know like this is all great stuff pushing it forward in great ways i'm
02:19:19 ◼ ► very happy about it but it doesn't feel like a big leap and maybe that's just what we're going to have
02:19:24 ◼ ► to accept from vision os it's not going to make big leaps but as long as they're adding stuff to it
02:19:29 ◼ ► it's only four months since they shipped it right i mean it is a quick turnaround next year they
02:19:34 ◼ ► will have a full year cycle yeah this year they didn't so i i yeah i can see on one level you
02:19:40 ◼ ► call it watch os 2 you're sort of saying look um we're going to keep working on this thing and
02:19:45 ◼ ► we've incremented it and it might be small increments this time but we did it um and and
02:19:52 ◼ ► you could say that if they did 1.5 they're like oh it's so disappointing or whatever i don't know
02:19:57 ◼ ► if it matters in the end i'm glad that it's got stuff in it you know it's limited stuff but it's
02:20:01 ◼ ► got stuff and i'm what i'm saying is i'm not trying to put it down i'm just saying like it's
02:20:05 ◼ ► not a massive release but they did put features into it they've fixed a lot of pain points they've
02:20:10 ◼ ► added some stuff like i'm happy but they've not done some of the things that i really wanted like
02:20:16 ◼ ► environment development you know so like people could submit environments to the system and stuff
02:20:28 ◼ ► really disappointed about this because i it makes me worried that they're leaving the platform behind
02:20:35 ◼ ► i spoke to a friend of the show john voorhees today who said that he was told in a in a briefing
02:20:40 ◼ ► that he had that they're not here because of priorities and at some point some of these
02:20:45 ◼ ► features will start appearing on vision os so hopefully i hope that is the case like but to me
02:20:52 ◼ ► this i think is a sign of like priority shifts like uh apple's future was spatial computing their
02:21:01 ◼ ► new future is apple intelligence right it's just like what a difference a year makes and this is
02:21:08 ◼ ► kind of where we are but i look forward to these things coming together because i think that there
02:21:12 ◼ ► could be some really great stuff in spatial computing and apple intelligence like it feels
02:21:18 ◼ ► like a system those two things feel that they could be really well made for each other and maybe
02:21:23 ◼ ► it's just a case of building the interfaces that will work for this stuff and they have not put
02:21:29 ◼ ► vision os as a um like a main target for this right now because it's still very small and i
02:21:36 ◼ ► can understand that if that's the case i just really hope that they do it because i i want
02:21:40 ◼ ► those features there i'm also not convinced that in the vision os 2 cycle there won't be new
02:21:45 ◼ ► features that they haven't announced i think that is completely it yes i think they'll announce this
02:21:50 ◼ ► and ship it this fall and then they'll they'll do a 2.1 and it'll have a feature in it that surprises
02:21:54 ◼ ► us i i would not be surprised if there's a lot more that they're uh they're not going to hold
02:21:58 ◼ ► off necessarily for a year they're just going to keep on iterating on it and i hope that's the case
02:22:02 ◼ ► i really hope so but i'm happy with what i've seen like i spent a lot of time in vision os today
02:22:07 ◼ ► oh and they also added safari profiles which is like a huge feature for me um because now for you
02:22:13 ◼ ► you safari so i love it so yeah i i'm really happy with vision os too but you know i i didn't i wanted
02:22:21 ◼ ► more but i got more than what would have been the minimum so i'm happy with that i think we did it
02:22:28 ◼ ► so okay we're obviously going to have questions you have questions for us go to upgrade feedback
02:22:35 ◼ ► dot com send us in your ask upgrade questions i'd like to get through a bunch of them next week
02:22:40 ◼ ► let us know what you're thinking about what you're feeling and we'll try and see how many of those we
02:22:44 ◼ ► can get to next week i think that that would be a good use of some of our time next week along with
02:22:49 ◼ ► anything more that we learn uh in the intervening days so please go to upgrade feedback and do that
02:22:54 ◼ ► you can send us your feedback follow up in your questions you can check out jason's work over at
02:22:59 ◼ ► six colors dot com you can use podcasts on the incomparable.com and here on relay fm you can hear
02:23:04 ◼ ► me on relay fm and check out my work at cortexbrand.com jason is online he is at j snell j s n e double l
02:23:12 ◼ ► i am at i mike i m y k e you can watch video clips of this show on tik tok instagram and youtube we
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