508: Six or Seven Websites


00:00:00   [MUSIC]

00:00:07   Hello and welcome to Connected episode 508.

00:00:12   It is made possible this week by our sponsors, ZocDoc, Tailscale, and KRCS.

00:00:19   I am your keynote chairman, Stephen Hackett, and I'm joined by your annual chairman, Mike Hurley.

00:00:25   Hello, I am the annual chairman, Mike Hurley, and I'm here to let you know

00:00:29   that because of the DMA, unfortunately, we're unsure if we're allowed to have Federico anymore.

00:00:37   Federico, I don't know if you're there.

00:00:39   Are you allowed to confirm if you're allowed to be on the show anymore?

00:00:43   Hi, I thought I was going to prank you for a second.

00:00:47   Yeah, well, the DMA does not apply to me.

00:00:52   Oh, wow, listen to this.

00:00:54   No one can cage him in, you know?

00:00:57   He's Federico Petici.

00:00:59   No legislation can hold him down.

00:01:01   I'm not a chairman, but I can still be on the show.

00:01:05   Okay.

00:01:06   That's right.

00:01:06   Yeah.

00:01:07   Look, we all--

00:01:09   Chairman of Europe.

00:01:10   Chairman of Europe.

00:01:11   We've all been in that season, right, where we don't hold a title, and part of you feels diminished, right?

00:01:21   Like you feel cold in the morning.

00:01:24   No, I don't.

00:01:25   I don't have those problems.

00:01:26   I don't think it's possible for Federico to feel diminished.

00:01:30   Yeah.

00:01:31   I feel like the title was robbed from me, if anything.

00:01:34   Oh, okay.

00:01:35   You're probably right.

00:01:36   I feel like Federico is very "in-minished."

00:01:39   Like, I don't know what the opposite of diminished is.

00:01:40   I'm very augmented.

00:01:43   Augmented.

00:01:44   He's a cyber teacher.

00:01:47   He's got his hacks going on, and he's ready to go.

00:01:50   Whatever the opposite of diminished is, that's what I am.

00:01:53   Yes.

00:01:55   No.

00:01:56   Okay.

00:01:56   Anyway, it's good to be back on the show.

00:01:58   I listened to the previous episode, fun episode, so thank you guys for taking care of that.

00:02:04   And I wanted to especially mention that from the pro show, I really loved the name "needle" as an idea for a Threads client.

00:02:14   If those ever become a reality, I thought that was a really good suggestion.

00:02:19   And Steven, your dead joke about the tapestry of clients was horrible.

00:02:25   So thank you, I think.

00:02:28   If you would like to hear all of these great suggestions and jokes, then you should become a Connected Pro member.

00:02:33   Go to getconnectedpro.co, and you can sign up.

00:02:36   That's right.

00:02:38   I'm glad you enjoyed the show last week because part of that show is here this week in the form of follow up.

00:02:45   That was nice.

00:02:47   Chris wrote in, this is the last time we're going to talk about the today view.

00:02:50   I wasn't going to do it, but I realized that I wanted to hear Federico's take on it.

00:02:54   So Chris wrote in, I'm deep into focus modes and the today view is a place where the widgets stay consistent regardless of which focus mode I am in.

00:03:05   I'm now interjecting.

00:03:06   Do we think it's because Apple forgot about the today view when they were making focus modes?

00:03:10   Yeah, me too.

00:03:11   No, because it's not that they've forgotten about it.

00:03:13   It's that they are not adding to it because they're going to remove it.

00:03:17   All right, the clues are all here.

00:03:19   OK, Red String Man on, you know.

00:03:23   I am Charlie Day.

00:03:24   I am connecting all of the points, but this is another one.

00:03:28   That's why we named the show Connected, actually.

00:03:31   I will add to that, that I think Mike is onto something and I will say they are not going to spend any more engineering efforts into the today view because that today view will eventually become a smart Apple intelligence view.

00:03:47   Where instead of widgets, you can get just about anywhere else at this point on iOS.

00:03:54   Instead of widgets, you will have some like Google has this, something similar to that, like Apple intelligence giving you an actual brief of the day or like a like a, you know, just an Apple intelligence page where you can get a bunch of AI features.

00:04:10   Well, actually making it more like a today view, which it currently is just a widgets page.

00:04:14   Like there's nothing else there.

00:04:16   Federico, you may be able to answer a question for me now that I just thought.

00:04:20   If you tint your home screen stuff and IOS 18, does it do anything to the today view?

00:04:28   Oh, let's see.

00:04:29   No, I don't think so.

00:04:30   One of you beta boys can let me know.

00:04:32   I got my beta right here.

00:04:33   Let me see.

00:04:34   No, because when you tint the icons, it only applies to the icons.

00:04:37   That's not true.

00:04:38   Widgets tint. Widgets tint too.

00:04:40   It does tint the today view.

00:04:42   Yeah, it does.

00:04:43   Okay. Cause I was going to say, if it didn't like, that's another big, big thing to connect some string to, you know?

00:04:50   Yeah.

00:04:50   I never used the tinting.

00:04:52   So, uh, for the first time in a few years, I think this year's, uh, home screen updates are like things that I, I think Apple is writing doing, but for the first time in a few years, things that are not for me, like, um, the tinting or the custom icon layouts.

00:05:09   I think those are for a lot of people, very welcome.

00:05:12   And for the first time in a few years, things that I will never use.

00:05:15   So yeah, never used the tinting.

00:05:17   These are not for the old man iPhone users that we have become.

00:05:22   Right?

00:05:22   This is what I think we noticed immediately, which is like, this is great that you can do this, but I have spent like 15 years working on just having what I want on my home screen.

00:05:32   Like I don't have space to have space.

00:05:34   Although I will say I did have this thought.

00:05:38   I think it was listening to Mac power users.

00:05:40   I have a widget space on my iPhone for home screen widgets.

00:05:45   So like on my, on my home screen, that's the home app.

00:05:48   Right?

00:05:50   So I have home, hello, my name is Michael Hurley and I'm here with a scrambled brain.

00:05:58   On my, on my iPhone home screen, you know, if you're familiar with the iPhone.

00:06:06   I am.

00:06:07   Yeah, yeah.

00:06:07   Are you, are you?

00:06:08   Here's the question.

00:06:10   I am a professional.

00:06:12   Like people pay me to speak.

00:06:14   What are you trying to say?

00:06:16   What are you trying to say?

00:06:17   I'm too far in it now.

00:06:18   So I have on my home screen, my second screen, a space for home widgets, right?

00:06:26   Like a widget.

00:06:27   Okay.

00:06:27   My home.

00:06:28   Yes, yes, I get it.

00:06:31   Home widgets.

00:06:32   Okay.

00:06:33   When I'm doing this and neither of you are saying anything, it gets worse.

00:06:37   You have a second page on your home screen that you only use for homekit widgets.

00:06:42   No, not only, but there is a spec, there is like, I have a, I have a medium widget there.

00:06:47   Okay.

00:06:47   There's a space for home widgets.

00:06:50   Home.

00:06:50   Yeah.

00:06:51   For the home.

00:06:52   Yeah.

00:06:52   For the home app, medium sized widget.

00:06:55   Yes.

00:06:55   And with the updates to control center, I feel like I'm not going to need that widget anymore

00:07:01   because I expect I will be able to specifically define what I want, which was what I was asking

00:07:08   for two years ago or a year ago.

00:07:10   And then Apple gave me that widget where you can define what you want.

00:07:13   So it was like, oh, that solved the problem.

00:07:15   But I feel like not only will I be able to get the widgets, like, will I be able to specify

00:07:21   exactly what controls and our actions I want in, in a view in control center for home that

00:07:26   I'll also get the enhancements of being able to use those to change brightness levels and

00:07:30   stuff rather than the way it is on the, uh, the home on like the widget right now for

00:07:36   home where you can just turn things on and off.

00:07:39   So that will actually give me some space that I don't currently have.

00:07:43   And I wonder if I might like rearrange things to, because I'll have that space, but I don't

00:07:49   know, I'll have the space, which is good is what I want to say.

00:07:53   Okay.

00:07:54   I'm glad you said that we're going to leave it all in exactly as it happened.

00:07:57   I mean, there's no way to edit around it, like that's for sure.

00:08:00   It's just in there.

00:08:01   No, we don't pay any edit or enough money to try and make sense of that.

00:08:06   I did the thing recently I was editing something and the person restarted a word, but halfway

00:08:16   through it.

00:08:17   So I didn't have a clean moment like of the whole word.

00:08:22   I did a thing where I cut the middle of it out and squish it together and you can't,

00:08:25   you can't tell.

00:08:26   It's like the best editing trick.

00:08:28   It makes you feel like an AI or an AI.

00:08:32   No, I think humans do it better than AI right now, but for now it makes you feel so powerful

00:08:38   if you're able to do that.

00:08:41   You never finished Chris's follow up, but like, by the way, well, we're halfway through

00:08:46   it.

00:08:47   I know.

00:08:48   So Chris continues.

00:08:50   I get music, podcasts and contact widgets there.

00:08:53   So don't have to keep them on main pages.

00:08:55   I don't have to duplicate those in every focus mode.

00:08:57   Just wanted to share an alternative use case.

00:09:00   I think it's a very good alternative use case.

00:09:03   I don't, the only focus mode I use asleep.

00:09:06   And so I, I, I gave up on all the other side.

00:09:08   I was not aware of this, the way that this worked, but a very cool.

00:09:13   Well, I recommend that Chris creates the second home screen page of all of these things on

00:09:18   because the today view is going to go away.

00:09:20   You know, it's funny.

00:09:21   I've been paying attention in the last week or so.

00:09:23   Like I've used the today view a few times because I have like a shortcuts widget there.

00:09:27   Like, so I'm aware that I'm doing it sometimes, but I actually think that these specific things

00:09:33   I will also put in control center because the point is having access to them in more

00:09:39   places when they'll be in control center.

00:09:40   And then here's a thought, if this were to go away and Chris's use case would be obviously

00:09:48   broken a little bit, if you really relied on this with the solution be, instead of using

00:09:54   focus modes, you have an iPhone for each focus.

00:09:57   So it was like, Oh, this is the phone I use at work.

00:09:59   This is the phone I use at home.

00:10:00   This is the phone I use when I'm running.

00:10:02   And like, they're all sure how that solves Chris's problem or individually, it was just

00:10:07   an alternative.

00:10:08   Maybe that's what Apple wants.

00:10:09   You know, they're going to get rid of the today view to sell more phones.

00:10:12   Think about it.

00:10:13   That is thinking about that, that on your corkboard mic.

00:10:16   You know, the other meme, the one with the dominoes, you know, like the guys pushing

00:10:20   the domino.

00:10:21   Yes.

00:10:22   That's what you're trying to, if that happened, then that's what you're building.

00:10:27   Cause I don't know what those steps in the middle are, but I guess that's the point.

00:10:31   You are today view user Federico?

00:10:33   Not really.

00:10:35   No, it's a, it used to be like an aspirational feature for me where I would put widgets and

00:10:41   be like, Oh yeah, I put widgets there.

00:10:42   Now I can use them.

00:10:44   And then I never do.

00:10:45   But there's something bigger at play here, which is I think actually like, I don't think

00:10:52   I'm a big widget person on my iPhone at all.

00:10:55   Like the thing is I do have one small widget on my home screen and that's about it.

00:11:05   Because like I really don't like swiping and scrolling to access information.

00:11:11   I use widgets on my iPad a bunch.

00:11:12   Like I think, you know, the iPad with the extra space, I think widgets make more sense

00:11:17   there.

00:11:18   But on my iPhone, if I'm supposed to navigate between multiple pages to get to a widget,

00:11:25   or if I'm supposed to scroll through a stack of widgets, like by the time I'm done scrolling

00:11:32   or, or, you know, swiping between pages, like what I could do instead is pull down spotlight,

00:11:40   open the app I'm looking for.

00:11:42   Like why swipe multiple times or scroll multiple times to get to the calendar widget where

00:11:47   I can just search for Cal, open calendar and I'm done.

00:11:51   Like I'm a big spotlight user on the iPhone, much more than widgets.

00:11:57   And this is something that I've started to really realize over, over the past year.

00:12:02   Like I think widgets are better than ever, but on the iPhone, the way the home screen

00:12:09   is designed and the way spotlight is so easily accessible.

00:12:14   And now with control center becoming customizable, like I don't think I'm, I'm going to use widgets

00:12:21   that much, honestly.

00:12:23   Hmm.

00:12:24   Okay.

00:12:25   Friendship ended with widget.

00:12:26   Yeah.

00:12:27   Spotlight my new best friend.

00:12:28   Control center.

00:12:29   Oh, spotlight.

00:12:30   I love spotlight.

00:12:32   Like I use spotlight so much, especially because I like to keep a single screen.

00:12:37   And since I started keeping a single home screen, I've also started using the app library

00:12:41   a lot more.

00:12:42   Yeah baby.

00:12:43   I know you come around.

00:12:44   Because when you're, yeah, I know it's actually pretty good because when you swipe left, it's

00:12:48   immediately right there.

00:12:49   If you have a single home screen, you swipe left and the next page is the app library.

00:12:53   And so both spotlight and the app library, I guess I like search.

00:12:57   I, it would be the, the, the, the big realization here.

00:13:01   I like search more than glanceable info.

00:13:05   Yeah.

00:13:06   Hmm.

00:13:07   Hmm.

00:13:08   So no, I don't use the today view.

00:13:12   Okay.

00:13:13   Yeah.

00:13:14   Mike, tell us about design apps for the iPad.

00:13:16   Well, people wrote in, um, I, I tried out, uh, concepts, uh, and we had Michael who's

00:13:24   an architect write in to say, I am an architect and I will buy an iPad for concepts alone.

00:13:29   So I second the on air vote and hope you give it a deep look.

00:13:32   And this is the thing.

00:13:33   I gave it a quick look and is there's a lot going on in this application.

00:13:38   It's like quite intimidating.

00:13:39   I think, uh, like if you want to pick a color, uh, how about color swatches with every possible

00:13:46   color in the world?

00:13:47   It's like, okay, like there's a lot happening, uh, in the concepts app.

00:13:50   And so I've downloaded it and I've put up my iPad home screen and I'm like gonna poke

00:13:54   around of it.

00:13:55   I feel like this is an application that's probably best served by watching a video course,

00:14:01   but I also feel similar about procreate like procreate is another app, really powerful,

00:14:06   but it's just like, there's so much that you'd have to dig into.

00:14:10   Um, but that I, you know, I guess it's, I could go on, right?

00:14:14   Like Photoshop to any of these applications that are intentionally deep.

00:14:19   They did.

00:14:20   The learning curve is hard.

00:14:22   Um, there was a, there was also another recommendation for an app called more folio trace from BG

00:14:28   who was also an architect.

00:14:29   Usually architects and iPads are best friends, which actually kind of makes sense.

00:14:33   Uh, more folio trace gives you layers of, uh, like tracing paper.

00:14:37   So it's a great way to set scale and a rule of, so like, you know, you're, instead of

00:14:41   just like the layers are intentionally see-through, which I think is an interesting idea for design.

00:14:46   So I've got all of these apps downloaded to try out.

00:14:49   Uh, I see the benefit of concepts, but I do wonder if maybe I want to use free form for

00:14:56   a bit first to graduate to something like concepts.

00:15:00   Like I've never even used an app like this, like these infinite canvas apps for anything

00:15:06   other than playing around, you know, like we've all set up free form boards and dump

00:15:10   on stuff and shared them with people and drawn pictures in our vision pros or whatever.

00:15:15   But the idea of actually using an app like this for work is something I've not done.

00:15:20   And so I do feel like concepts might be a bit too high of a bar for me right now.

00:15:25   And I'm going to try free form, but I put them both on my home, the home screen of my

00:15:29   13 inch iPad pro next to each other to kind of like poke around with them when I have

00:15:33   some time and a use for it, but very powerful applications and I appreciate the recommendations.

00:15:39   Um, but yeah, just got to get away out a little bit first.

00:15:44   I think it definitely seems like there's a whole world of apps in this category.

00:15:47   I would just wasn't aware of, and some of them look bonkers.

00:15:52   It's cool though.

00:15:53   I mean, yeah.

00:15:54   Uh, you know, if, if I were to design a building, right, I'd probably do it on an iPad.

00:15:59   Yeah.

00:16:00   Here's like flinging windows around.

00:16:02   I mean, I, I feel like anything where you're, you're doing something professionally with

00:16:08   a drawing tool.

00:16:10   Yeah.

00:16:11   It's very easy to move to the iPad.

00:16:13   Like, because now you have so much more flexibility and power available to you than you had before

00:16:21   because now you have a computer underneath you instead of pen and paper.

00:16:26   Like I think that there is a very smart like scale there that gets you to that point.

00:16:32   You know,

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00:18:36   Federico, there's a line in the document that says Federico also has an app request.

00:18:47   What's up?

00:18:48   Yeah, so this is a pretty simple question.

00:18:51   So I subscribe to a few websites that I enjoy reading their stuff and they have obviously

00:19:02   subscription models.

00:19:05   So what I'm looking for, and usually I like to read those websites in their original website

00:19:11   design.

00:19:12   Like I don't want to save them to a read later app.

00:19:15   I just want to cycle through those websites like every night or every morning and see

00:19:21   what's new.

00:19:23   Now you may just say, well, just bookmark them in Safari and open a new tab for each

00:19:29   of these websites.

00:19:31   And sure that could work, but I'm curious to see if there's an iOS and iPadOS, like

00:19:39   a quote unquote browser app that I can use just to read some specific websites.

00:19:46   Like a stripped down version of Safari that puts the emphasis on this like 10 bookmarks

00:19:53   that I have.

00:19:54   And I'm not looking for an RSS replacement.

00:19:58   I guess the closest analogy to what I'm looking for is like, like imagine a single site browser

00:20:05   app, but it's not for a single site.

00:20:07   It's just to browse, I don't know, five websites.

00:20:11   I was thinking about the app feed with like five E's in the middle.

00:20:16   It's called feed.

00:20:19   I like sometimes when you say something like that, like, you know, I was thinking about

00:20:23   this.

00:20:24   I've never heard of this application, but it's just obviously you are just more plugged

00:20:29   into the new apps, right?

00:20:31   It's a pretty cool looking app.

00:20:33   Nilayan reviewed this one on Mac stories a few months back.

00:20:37   And it's sort of the idea of feed is to aggregate multiple news sources into one.

00:20:43   So like you can bookmark websites, but you can also import RSS.

00:20:47   You can follow YouTube channels, Reddit communities and read it all in one place.

00:20:53   And that's more tool than I need.

00:20:57   Literally what I'm looking for is like a separate browser that keeps my cookies and keeps my

00:21:01   login session active for the seven websites that I pay a subscription for.

00:21:08   And I want to read them in a separate UI from Safari.

00:21:12   Is there a way to do this on iOS and iPadOS?

00:21:15   I'm going to ask you the request that the suggestion that Kate put in Discord, which

00:21:20   is like, have you considered a tab group for these?

00:21:23   I don't really like using tab groups because then if you are in one of those websites and

00:21:29   you open a tab, then it, you know, it's, I'm really not a fan of the tab group UI and how

00:21:37   it works.

00:21:38   And then when I re-open Safari, I'm in the tab group.

00:21:43   No, I want to keep my browser for opening link.

00:21:46   Like and then if I close the tab group and I go to ivory and I click on a link in ivory,

00:21:51   and it opens in the tab group and it has nothing to do with the websites that I want to read

00:21:55   in there.

00:21:56   No, like if possible, I would prefer to avoid tab groups.

00:22:00   And have you considered just using another browser like Arc or iCab?

00:22:05   No.

00:22:06   Wow.

00:22:07   Yeah.

00:22:08   To which was that sound or was it to all?

00:22:11   To Arc, which is the saddest story of 2024, an app that started with some really clever

00:22:17   UI decisions and then had to screw it all up with AI.

00:22:20   Thanks!

00:22:21   I'm just going to say I intentionally provoked you and I apologize for doing that.

00:22:27   I intentionally said Arc first because I wanted to get your reaction.

00:22:32   Yeah, that was the reaction.

00:22:35   It's the most like at the end of the year, we'll give it an award for like most bummer

00:22:40   of an app release in 2024.

00:22:43   Started out with some genuinely incredible UI ideas.

00:22:48   And then they had to do the AI thing.

00:22:51   I mean, they did the thing that was the most obvious, right?

00:22:57   For what they are, right?

00:22:59   As a, I believe, venture-based new browser, the obvious thing that they would do is go

00:23:06   hard on AI.

00:23:07   Like that is the...

00:23:09   I'm not saying it's the right thing, but it is the obvious thing that you would do as

00:23:14   the company in their shoes.

00:23:16   Yeah, so anyway, to answer your question, I could use another browser, but typically

00:23:23   browsers have a whole series of functionalities that like...

00:23:29   I'm looking for something really simple, ideally, where like here's your five websites.

00:23:35   Open one, read it, open the second one, read it.

00:23:38   Like something simple, you know, doesn't have to have a lot of features.

00:23:44   I just want to take this, and I literally believe it's six or seven websites, take them

00:23:49   out of Safari and read them in a standalone environment.

00:23:53   That is not a read later app.

00:23:54   Like I don't need a text parser.

00:23:56   I don't need any of those features.

00:23:58   I just need something simple to keep seven websites bookmarked and read them without

00:24:04   AI, without text parser, without like...

00:24:08   It's not even necessary to have an ad blocker because those websites don't have ads.

00:24:14   Since I pay them.

00:24:15   So yeah, it's like something like Fluid.

00:24:20   Remember Fluid on macOS?

00:24:23   But with support for multiple websites and a clean iOS and iPadOS UI.

00:24:28   Just that.

00:24:30   I'm going to make another really weird...

00:24:32   I'm just going to make a weird suggestion.

00:24:34   What about...

00:24:35   You're going to hate it.

00:24:36   A folder on your home screen that has each website saved as a program of attitude.

00:24:46   Like honestly, if it comes to that, I think that's what I'm going to do.

00:24:50   Like if I cannot find a dedicated browser app that does that, I think that's what I'm

00:24:56   going to do.

00:24:57   Just save them to the home screen, put them in a folder and have little icons for each.

00:25:03   And that's what I'm going to do.

00:25:04   Yeah.

00:25:05   So do these websites not offer RSS feeds?

00:25:08   Is that the...

00:25:09   They do.

00:25:10   But also like I subscribe to hundreds of RSS feeds and you know.

00:25:14   The problem...

00:25:15   It's all a matter of self-control.

00:25:18   When I open Safari, then I get distracted by my other tabs.

00:25:21   If I open my RSS client, then I get distracted by my other subscriptions.

00:25:25   Right.

00:25:26   So you want like a clean room environment kind of thing.

00:25:30   Yes.

00:25:31   And then you have that where like, look, here's where you're going to read the platformer,

00:25:36   aftermath, you know, all the other web...

00:25:39   Steven Totino's newsletter, like all the things you pay for.

00:25:44   This is the space where you read just those.

00:25:48   Have you considered an eating tablet?

00:25:51   Yeah, I see that now this is all...

00:25:54   This is catching on.

00:25:55   Right.

00:25:56   And I think I understand why.

00:25:58   And I think it's an appealing device for a lot of people.

00:26:01   But the thing is, I love my phone's display.

00:26:04   Like I get it.

00:26:06   I get why people are looking for a detox device from the phone.

00:26:12   I don't have the problem because I love my phone and I love the way that it looks with

00:26:16   colors.

00:26:17   You know, I understand why people prefer e-readers.

00:26:22   I just really like the screen on my phone and my iPad.

00:26:25   Like I would prefer...

00:26:28   And also like I don't want to pocket another thing.

00:26:31   I'm trying to get rid of things to put in my pocket, not to add an additional one.

00:26:36   Okay.

00:26:37   Well, let us know if you have suggestions.

00:26:39   Yeah, thank you.

00:26:42   I don't know if such a thing exists, but if it does, let us know.

00:26:47   We had a note from listener Apollo who wanted a check in on Federico's Nomad Horine leather

00:26:55   case.

00:26:56   So how's that going?

00:26:57   Yeah, it's going that I'm not using that anymore, but I'm using another Nomad product.

00:27:04   So I switched from the leather case to the SUTI foam back case at the beginning of the

00:27:11   year.

00:27:12   Now this is a relatively...

00:27:13   The what?

00:27:14   Sorry?

00:27:15   The what?

00:27:16   S-U-T-I.

00:27:17   SUTI is the name of the company.

00:27:19   Foam back is the name of the accessory.

00:27:22   I thought you were using the Nomad leather back case.

00:27:26   Give me a second.

00:27:27   Oh, sorry.

00:27:28   Sorry.

00:27:29   I'm sorry.

00:27:30   We've got to roll around.

00:27:31   This is a story, all right?

00:27:32   Okay.

00:27:33   Yeah.

00:27:34   I started using that at the beginning of the year.

00:27:35   I really liked the idea that was a silicone case.

00:27:37   Well, not a case.

00:27:38   There was a silicone back, like just the back cover made of pretty much the same material

00:27:45   as a regular silicone case, but just the back.

00:27:48   And I liked that so much.

00:27:50   I used it for a couple of months.

00:27:51   I put in a reservation for the Nomad back cover version.

00:27:57   It was not available at the time, and I got it about a month ago.

00:28:02   And I started using it since instead of the SUTI foam back.

00:28:06   Now I'm using the...

00:28:07   What's the official name of the Nomad back cover thing?

00:28:10   What are they calling it?

00:28:11   Magnetic leather back.

00:28:13   Yeah.

00:28:14   That's what I'm using now.

00:28:15   The Nomad magnetic leather back.

00:28:18   And I absolutely love it.

00:28:20   It gives me the texture that I like, and it frees the sides of the phone from being covered

00:28:28   by a case.

00:28:29   And yeah, I love this thing.

00:28:32   I love how it feels.

00:28:33   I love how it's aging, and I love that I can see my titanium edges of the phone.

00:28:40   I highly recommend it.

00:28:42   I tried one of these for a while, the magnetic leather back.

00:28:46   And I don't... so it's magnetic, but it also uses the little micro suction adhesive to

00:28:53   also kind of hold onto the phone.

00:28:56   And maybe it's because I'm an Apple Wallet user now, like the leather wallet thing on

00:29:01   the back of the phone.

00:29:03   But I had trouble with this staying on the phone.

00:29:05   Like the top part would want to come floppy after a while.

00:29:09   Really?

00:29:10   That's weird.

00:29:11   And so I stuck it in the drawer, unfortunately.

00:29:14   And returned to my beloved Peak Design everyday iPhone case with the mount thing on the back.

00:29:21   Me and Greg were talking about them at State of the Hardware because we were kind of commiserating

00:29:27   Peak's action button lifecycle.

00:29:30   Yes, I'm on the V2 now with the button.

00:29:34   It's going to happen again though, right?

00:29:36   With the capture button.

00:29:39   And potentially the... if they go capacitive buttons, then they got to deal with that too.

00:29:46   You would expect that they have learned a lesson now.

00:29:50   I mean, what's the lesson though?

00:29:53   Don't make a phone case until the phone's out.

00:29:56   That's the whole play though, right?

00:29:58   That's the problem.

00:29:59   Unless you got to eat a bunch of inventory like they did.

00:30:01   You know, I mean, I would love to know from them.

00:30:04   And also don't make cutouts for buttons instead of making actual buttons that, you know, this

00:30:09   case is they have buttons that press buttons.

00:30:12   Here's a question I have, because I don't know this.

00:30:14   I don't know if any of you know, I don't know if people know.

00:30:18   If the buttons are capacitive in that they do not move, can you make a button that presses

00:30:24   that button?

00:30:25   I'm sure there's some material.

00:30:27   I'm sure there's some material out there.

00:30:29   That's like conductive.

00:30:31   Yeah.

00:30:32   It's like those meat sticks people were using to touch their phones.

00:30:36   Yeah.

00:30:37   I mean, we're sending people to the moon.

00:30:39   Well, pretty sure we can figure out hopefully soon again.

00:30:48   We used to send them.

00:30:50   I guess, I don't know.

00:30:51   We failed as a species because then we stopped sending them and we cannot make buttons that

00:30:56   press capacitive buttons, but we can make a browser with five E's in the name.

00:31:03   So sure.

00:31:04   Yeah, but it doesn't solve federal records problems.

00:31:08   It's true.

00:31:09   You know, can we really do this?

00:31:11   I don't know if we can do this.

00:31:12   Look, maybe we failed as a species is the realization this week on this show.

00:31:17   And the reason we know we failed is because Federico cannot find an app to look at six

00:31:22   websites.

00:31:23   Look, I just need to look at six or seven websites.

00:31:26   I'm not sure it's six or seven.

00:31:27   All right.

00:31:28   And I just need a simple app to look at them and everybody wants to give me features.

00:31:34   Everybody wants to give me features.

00:31:35   Look, I don't want features.

00:31:36   I just need to look at six or seven websites.

00:31:38   I've got a bunch of websites here I want to look at and what's the problem?

00:31:43   What if you got one iPad mini per website?

00:31:47   All these apps are like, hey, don't you want ad blockers?

00:31:49   Don't you want a key chain?

00:31:50   Hey, do you want pin tabs?

00:31:52   Do you want AI summaries?

00:31:53   I'm like, look, I just need to look at six or seven websites.

00:31:57   Six or seven tabs.

00:31:58   It's just six or seven.

00:32:00   I'm really, I'm kind of happy and at the same time sad that you detailed the websites.

00:32:07   Like I think if you would have just saying it's just six websites, I'd never say what

00:32:13   they are.

00:32:14   People would have assumptions, I think.

00:32:16   That's why I'm sad that he didn't say it, but also happy that he said it.

00:32:19   You know what I mean?

00:32:20   It's just like a...

00:32:21   I said three and it's basically all tech and gaming subscriptions.

00:32:27   Oh no.

00:32:28   And basically chorus FM.

00:32:30   Excellent website.

00:32:31   Yeah.

00:32:32   Anyway.

00:32:33   Yeah.

00:32:34   Okay.

00:32:35   The human race, right?

00:32:37   Yeah.

00:32:38   So you were using the Nomad magnetic leatherback case.

00:32:45   Not case.

00:32:46   Not back, just the back.

00:32:48   Just the back.

00:32:51   I have broken free of the industrial case complex.

00:32:54   Wow.

00:32:55   Oh, you're free from big case?

00:32:56   He is.

00:32:57   I'm free from big case.

00:32:58   I'm free from big case.

00:32:59   How's your phone?

00:33:00   Absolutely fine.

00:33:01   Absolutely fine.

00:33:02   No problems here.

00:33:03   It's good.

00:33:04   I don't break phones like you do.

00:33:08   See, you're a part of big case and you break everything.

00:33:12   Oh, maybe.

00:33:13   I've broken free from big case.

00:33:15   The only thing I break is free from.

00:33:17   You know?

00:33:18   Wow.

00:33:19   What does that even mean?

00:33:22   You know what it means.

00:33:23   I don't.

00:33:24   Everybody gets it.

00:33:25   No, everyone knows.

00:33:27   I'm just breaking free from.

00:33:28   I ain't breaking phones.

00:33:30   You know?

00:33:31   Okay, Mike.

00:33:34   Beats is back.

00:33:37   Everybody's favorite Apple owned company other than FileMaker, obviously.

00:33:43   Obviously.

00:33:44   The Beats Pill, which is their standalone Bluetooth speaker is back.

00:33:49   It was taken off the market, I don't even remember, 2022, I think.

00:33:55   And it has shown up in a bunch of celebrity Instagram posts over the last few months.

00:34:00   And it is now out.

00:34:01   We have a couple links in the show notes, including to a hands-on from our buddy Chance

00:34:05   Miller over at 9to5Mac.

00:34:07   And it is very much like the old Beats, I think, in terms of shape and size.

00:34:13   But Apple says it's basically all new inside and out with better speakers.

00:34:20   It has better water resistance.

00:34:22   You can use it by the pool and it's going to be okay or maybe like on a shelf in the

00:34:27   shower and comes in a bunch of fun colors.

00:34:30   I really like the champagne gold, but the matte black and the red also look pretty nice.

00:34:36   But there are a couple things about this that are confusing to me.

00:34:41   And I think the big one is the lack of AirPlay.

00:34:46   Yeah, help me understand who would buy this product instead of literally any Sonos portable

00:34:54   speaker?

00:34:56   Because you're a fan of Beats as a brand?

00:35:00   Like just Bluetooth for an Apple owned company seems wild to me.

00:35:06   Well, I think what Steven said earlier about like, Beats obviously has a brand, right?

00:35:17   Which I think that they have gone back to their roots a little bit with the marketing

00:35:22   of this product in that it was being seen everywhere in the hands of musicians and athletes.

00:35:30   And I think that's the whole thing.

00:35:33   This is a pure like, you want to look like the influencer, right?

00:35:38   You want to be carrying the Beats Pill around while you're walking from thing to thing.

00:35:43   I think that's what this is.

00:35:46   Apparently it's good, but it is weird not to have AirPlay.

00:35:50   It's good that they have all the features that they have.

00:35:53   It being a Bluetooth speaker, fantastic, right?

00:35:56   I think it has USB-C, right?

00:36:01   Does it have line in or anything like that?

00:36:04   I don't think it has line in, but you can use a USB-C cable and get high fidelity audio

00:36:09   to it.

00:36:10   That's what I was thinking of.

00:36:12   So like it's an interesting product, but it is weird in that it has a bunch of Apple

00:36:19   focus features, but not AirPlay.

00:36:22   That is weird.

00:36:24   I think the biggest example of this weirdness is in the YouTube design video of it, which

00:36:31   is like an Apple video, but not.

00:36:34   There's a section in it touting the setup process and it says, if you use Apple or if

00:36:40   you use Android, they don't say the iPhone.

00:36:45   It's super weird.

00:36:46   It really jumped out at me as like, oh, they're talking to an audience that is much broader

00:36:51   than just people buying iPhones, right?

00:36:53   They're talking to the Beats audience.

00:36:54   Yeah, it's their own thing.

00:36:56   It's their own thing.

00:36:57   But it's weird to say Apple though.

00:37:00   I can't believe it made it out the door without them saying, you use Mac.

00:37:03   Do you guys use Apple?

00:37:05   You guys use Apple?

00:37:06   I use no, I don't use Apple.

00:37:08   I use Mac.

00:37:09   But what I have yet to see, and I think it's a travesty.

00:37:13   Where's the, where's the, where's the pill dude case?

00:37:17   Oh yeah.

00:37:19   Oh yeah.

00:37:20   Where is it?

00:37:21   They made an ad with, with them.

00:37:24   I don't know if you saw that.

00:37:25   They made like a little teaser ad and it's like three pill people talking to each other.

00:37:31   But I don't see the pill person case.

00:37:33   And I feel like at this point, what's the point, you know, why even bother?

00:37:37   Make one and sell it on Etsy.

00:37:39   I don't know how to do it, but I can, I can sure try.

00:37:44   But yeah, they, they made an ad two days ago called pill people are back and it's a new

00:37:49   version and it's actually pretty funny.

00:37:51   The ad is pretty funny.

00:37:53   And but I want to know where's the case.

00:37:55   Let me, let me buy the bill people case.

00:37:59   I do like that, that like you can tell the times have moved on because I, I'm pretty

00:38:05   sure that the case was called pill dude, but now it's pill people.

00:38:11   So good work beats, you know, moving with the times.

00:38:14   Don't gender my speaker.

00:38:16   Exactly.

00:38:17   You know what?

00:38:19   Yes.

00:38:20   Don't gender my speaker.

00:38:22   That's what I say.

00:38:23   You can't stop me saying that you can't, it's tattooed right on my arm.

00:38:28   The the, the other thing kind of interesting thing about this is that this product did

00:38:33   go away, right?

00:38:34   It was, it was gone in 2022 and now it's back and, and that they use the inner leaving time,

00:38:42   like the, the run-up to it of like an NBA player is like carrying it around because

00:38:47   it has a strap on it where you can like carry it.

00:38:50   Like the old, like the iPod touch had that for like one generation, remember that like

00:38:53   the lanyard or whatever.

00:38:56   And yeah, I mean, it got pulled from the market.

00:38:58   I think there were a bunch of recalls.

00:39:00   Is this the beat speaker that had all the recalls?

00:39:03   And I think you know more about beats than I do.

00:39:05   I think so.

00:39:06   I mean, I walk into a Best Buy every once in a while and it's like an assault of beats

00:39:10   products.

00:39:11   It's, it's wild, but, but they're back and it's not for everybody.

00:39:15   Clearly it'd be cool with airplay.

00:39:16   I don't know if that's a cost thing or, or what.

00:39:21   But I think that would make this more attractive to the Apple side of their customer base,

00:39:28   but I'm sure they've got the information.

00:39:31   Like if most of their users are interested in that or just going to use Bluetooth, then

00:39:36   you know, focus on that.

00:39:38   And if it gave them the budget to do the cool USB-C playback thing, then, Hey, that's, that's

00:39:43   good too.

00:39:45   So all right.

00:39:46   I have a question for you, right?

00:39:48   Cause you mentioned about like it would make it better.

00:39:52   Do you believe that the people they are marketing to, like the average consumer uses or knows

00:40:01   about airplay or that they want to connect to a Bluetooth speaker?

00:40:06   Yep.

00:40:07   They just say Bluetooth speaker.

00:40:10   So I think that while it is weird, I think if we're considering this product as a whole,

00:40:16   like in its marketing and its messaging and who it is for, Bluetooth is actually the best

00:40:22   thing for it rather than spending the effort and additional cost to put in the technology,

00:40:30   which I believe is wifi to have airplay.

00:40:33   So maybe they're just like, you know what?

00:40:35   Everyone just wants a Bluetooth speaker.

00:40:36   Let's just give them a Bluetooth speaker.

00:40:38   No, you're probably right.

00:40:41   Bluetooth.

00:40:42   What a weird word.

00:40:45   Bluetooth.

00:40:46   Yeah.

00:40:47   Bluetooth.

00:40:48   Yeah.

00:40:49   Bluetooth.

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00:42:15   I don't know how much we want to talk about this today, but I want to open the floor for

00:42:23   discussion if is desired, which is a little update with Apple and the European union.

00:42:32   So two big stories have occurred in the last four or five days.

00:42:38   First was Apple announcing that they're holding back Apple intelligence, iPhone mirroring

00:42:42   and share play screen sharing from the European union due to concerns about DMA interoperability

00:42:49   rules and their impact on security because of it.

00:42:53   And then also the European union has found Apple and announced that they have found Apple

00:42:58   in breach of the DMA because of anti-steering rules and have announced that they're investigating

00:43:04   the CTF.

00:43:06   Essentially to try and sum this up, which is very complicated to sum up, but I'll try.

00:43:10   The EU is unhappy with the ways in which Apple is limiting the ability for developers to

00:43:15   freely enable alternate payment methods and sideloading of apps.

00:43:23   And then also that developers can't get any of this unless they accept to the new business

00:43:29   terms, which they're also unhappy with because of the CTF.

00:43:34   So they have announced that they are in breach due to anti-steering and they are going to

00:43:39   launch a third investigation with I believe Spotify and music being the first one.

00:43:45   This is the second one.

00:43:47   And then the third one is the core technology fee as to whether that is something that should

00:43:53   be an ongoing thing.

00:43:55   In their press release, the European union is like, we accept that Apple can and should

00:44:01   get paid, but like not on an ongoing basis and also not for every possible purchase that

00:44:09   a developer can be made through an application.

00:44:12   So they're the two big areas I would like to open up the floor for discussion to you

00:44:18   to like, where are you feeling?

00:44:20   What are the vibes?

00:44:24   I don't know.

00:44:25   I don't know what I think, honestly.

00:44:28   On the DMA, I feel like, I don't know.

00:44:35   Part of me feels like this whole thing is being mismanaged by Apple and I feel like

00:44:42   there's a part of Apple that thinks they know better than European regulators and this is

00:44:50   all unfair and they don't want to respect what is now a law.

00:44:54   And they just feel like they should do everything they possibly can to try and get away with

00:45:00   it with the bare minimum implementation of what the law is asking for.

00:45:06   And then there's also a part of me that feels like, you know, this is all new and you want

00:45:12   to give them the benefit of the doubt.

00:45:14   And they're just trying to understand as they go along, what will be okay and what won't

00:45:21   be okay.

00:45:23   So I'm very torn.

00:45:24   Like I don't know what to think, especially because I don't work at Apple.

00:45:26   And I just know that from the outside looking in, it's hard not to feel like the customers

00:45:32   are losing out, as always with these things.

00:45:36   You know, I see a lot of people, this is all very political as a topic, obviously.

00:45:45   It is actually politics.

00:45:46   It is actually politics and there's people saying, "Oh, those damn Europeans and their

00:45:52   silly stupid laws."

00:45:54   And then I see other people saying, "Well, Apple is evil and it's an evil company.

00:46:00   They fooled you into thinking they're a good company.

00:46:03   The EU must go after them and do everything they can to regulate them out of existence."

00:46:11   And I don't know, I feel like I'm somewhere in the middle.

00:46:14   I feel like there's parts of the DMA that, yeah, are confusing.

00:46:20   And companies need to navigate these waters now and understand what parts of the law actually

00:46:26   involve.

00:46:27   And a part of me also thinks, "Well, you know Apple though, and especially App Store management,

00:46:33   they absolutely hate the idea of sideloading and allowing customers to make purchases without

00:46:40   Apple getting a cut."

00:46:42   And so I just hope that as a customer, try and think about this from the perspective

00:46:48   of somebody who doesn't care about tech news, somebody who doesn't listen to podcasts, just

00:46:53   a regular iPhone person in the EU.

00:46:57   I think as a person, I would prefer if I could save a little money on my Spotify subscription.

00:47:03   I think I would like it if I could download all the emulators I wanted instead of being

00:47:08   okay for some emulators but not others.

00:47:12   And ultimately, I think you got to put people first.

00:47:17   And so that's sort of the perspective I'm trying to follow.

00:47:19   I like Apple.

00:47:20   I like the products they make.

00:47:21   I like the services they make.

00:47:24   I don't like some of their decisions, especially for the App Store.

00:47:28   And so that's what I think.

00:47:32   I don't want to take a particular extremist side because it's not what I feel.

00:47:42   And I also wanted to add for the features, for the Apple Intelligence features.

00:47:48   There's an Italian saying, it's an expression, I'm not sure if there's an English version

00:47:52   of it.

00:47:53   Basically, it says, "To think bad things is a sin, but every once in a while you're right"

00:48:03   would be a rough translation of it.

00:48:06   And so, yeah, I mean, maybe for real Apple is holding back Apple Intelligence because

00:48:12   they don't understand how it relates to the DMA.

00:48:16   But you know, you got to think that...

00:48:18   I believe it's both things.

00:48:19   Yeah.

00:48:20   Like I do.

00:48:21   Like I believe in regards to the way that the DMA speaks about interoperability, why

00:48:29   they have picked these specific features, right?

00:48:35   Because if interoperability is needed for them, this is either security risk or kind

00:48:43   of impossible to do with the way that Apple has architected the features and the way that

00:48:48   they want to do them, right?

00:48:50   I also, I feel like it's kind of funny that, so this iPhone mirroring feature, for example,

00:48:58   on my phone with the way that I've set up my phone, I am American enough to have access

00:49:07   to iPhone mirroring, but I'm not European enough to have access to alternative app stores

00:49:14   unless I switch accounts.

00:49:16   So I...

00:49:17   It sees you as American then, right?

00:49:20   Like your phone is being considered an American phone, right?

00:49:25   Well, but for some things, yeah, I guess.

00:49:32   And it goes to show that the theory that it's all mostly dictated by your app store account

00:49:39   seems to be the correct theory.

00:49:41   You know?

00:49:42   Like it seems to be on all the deciding factors that determine whether you are a European

00:49:48   or not a European, it seems that the app store account, more than the Apple ID or Apple account,

00:49:55   I should say, it seems that the app store account is the one with the most weight at

00:50:00   the moment.

00:50:01   Which I think there's a sense in that, right?

00:50:04   Because to have the account, you have to have a billing address and payment method in the

00:50:09   country.

00:50:10   And so it's like, it feels like the thing which is most going to be tied to where are

00:50:13   you now and like where are you basing your life now and also allowing to kind of ignore

00:50:20   a VPN if such a VPN was in place, right?

00:50:24   But like, I can imagine the scenario where these features, they don't know how to implement

00:50:31   them or they don't have the guidance from the European Commission yet or whatever, or

00:50:37   as I can imagine, the European Commission and Apple probably aren't on the best of terms.

00:50:42   So I don't imagine they're getting a lot of consultation or at least not everybody's not

00:50:47   coming to the consultation in the most helpful way on all sides would be my expectation of

00:50:52   what's happening here.

00:50:53   But also I can see the scenario where they may be happy that they get to hold Apple intelligence

00:50:59   back because it's most likely going to be the thing that makes European iPhone users

00:51:08   frustrated and that may get pushed back from the opposite side.

00:51:13   I wonder if they were also this cautious with the European Union and Apple intelligence

00:51:18   when they scraped websites.

00:51:20   I'm sure they were.

00:51:21   No, I don't think so.

00:51:23   Yeah, I think they did that without caution.

00:51:26   Yeah, as we've seen.

00:51:29   Yeah.

00:51:30   Europe should make some AI lots as well.

00:51:35   I'm in agreement with you all.

00:51:37   I think a lot of people's knee jerk reaction to the Apple intelligence stuff not being

00:51:42   in the European Union was, oh, they're doing it despite the EU.

00:51:47   And if you just think about that for four seconds, you know, that's not a great take

00:51:52   because why is Apple going to punish its users from a feature like try to get them to?

00:51:58   Well, I mean, look at the App Store.

00:52:01   Yeah.

00:52:02   Well, no, let me finish.

00:52:03   You're feisty.

00:52:04   Let me finish.

00:52:05   I don't see it being a viable option for them to punish their users by not getting cool

00:52:11   new features.

00:52:12   So what they go to the representatives and say the DMA is bad.

00:52:16   Please walk it back because like you open your argument with, I think a lot of sort

00:52:22   of average people look at the DMA from a high level and say, yeah, looks like a lot of good

00:52:27   stuff in there that I agree with.

00:52:29   Like, yeah, why am I paying an extra 15 to 30 percent on stuff?

00:52:34   Because Apple wants their cut.

00:52:35   Why are there some things I can buy on my phone in an app but can't buy in a browser?

00:52:40   Why are there some sort of apps my Android friends can use but I can't use right?

00:52:43   DMA attempts to deal with all those things.

00:52:46   But I think looking at Apple's decision making and saying, oh, they're doing it to spite

00:52:50   the EU or despite their users.

00:52:53   I just don't think that holds water for very long.

00:52:56   If you actually consider what the ramifications of that would be.

00:53:00   Maybe it's not spiked, but let me put it this way.

00:53:03   Let's say that you live in an apartment complex and you have a bunch of neighbors and there's

00:53:07   that one particular neighbor that you really dislike.

00:53:12   And it just so happens that one day that neighbor asks you for something.

00:53:18   And maybe you try to be a good person and everything, but maybe part of you thinks,

00:53:22   you know, of all the people that are going to ask me a favor, am I really going to do

00:53:26   a favor to the person I dislike the most in here?

00:53:29   And so when it came to Apple intelligence, I mean, you've got to believe there were some

00:53:33   people who were like, you know, these folks, they've been causing us so much trouble this

00:53:38   past year.

00:53:39   Do we really feel like we need to rush Apple intelligence in there anyway?

00:53:44   And I mean, the argument that, you know, politically speaking, Apple, is it a company that, you

00:53:50   know, would be okay with just hurting their users in any way?

00:53:55   I mean, not in the physical sense, obviously, but like, isn't it?

00:54:00   Your phone shocks you in the EU.

00:54:02   What I mean is like, aren't you hurting your users financially every time you make them

00:54:09   pay more for a subscription that is available for less somewhere else?

00:54:13   Yeah, but things can be separate, right?

00:54:15   Like we don't have to tie those two points.

00:54:18   I'm just saying that institutionally speaking, because a company is made of people and the

00:54:22   same people make those decisions, they are capable of, you know, just a little hurt once

00:54:28   in a while.

00:54:29   Yeah, no, sure.

00:54:30   And clearly Apple's attitude through this has been pretty bad at times.

00:54:34   Like I'm not saying that.

00:54:37   The other thing that I sort of think about in this conversation as it, as like we just

00:54:41   do these cycles over and over is in build.

00:54:48   So let's take, for instance, the chat GPT handoff that Apple intelligence would do, right?

00:54:54   You get to a point, Siri can't do it.

00:54:56   It says, Hey, do you want to ask chat GPT like that?

00:54:58   Just that feature under and I'm not a lawyer.

00:55:00   I don't know if anybody knows that and not go to law school, but under the DMA, would

00:55:06   Apple be required to have more than one vendor for that where they would have to have also

00:55:13   Google Gemini or you know, whatever Amazon's rumored to do that that Vrumer broke today

00:55:18   that they're working on a chat bot?

00:55:19   Like are there things in the DMA that are preventing or preventing Apple or maybe not

00:55:27   completely like, right?

00:55:28   It can both can be true.

00:55:30   I don't think so.

00:55:31   Cause this isn't a, like an exclusive partnership of open AI.

00:55:34   Apple have been very clear that this is in practice.

00:55:39   In practice it is because they're the only partner that have signed and, and so maybe

00:55:44   that's a bad example.

00:55:45   Maybe take the, the image generation stuff that Apple's doing on their own.

00:55:50   Does the DMA say that, well, you have this feature, but you have to also open it up to

00:55:56   other things and maybe Apple's just being like, you can read it one of two ways.

00:56:01   I think you can read it.

00:56:02   Oh, Apple's not playing ball here because they're have hurt feelings over the DMA or

00:56:10   is Apple not doing it because the DMA makes it more complicated for them to build new

00:56:15   features.

00:56:16   Both can be true.

00:56:17   I don't know what the ratio is there, but what I'm trying to get to here is it's a multifaceted

00:56:24   situation and saying, just saying, Oh, Apple's butt hurt over the DMA or just saying the

00:56:31   DMA is bad for competition or just saying the DMA is good for competition.

00:56:35   Like where like any single statement I don't think works when applied to this stuff because

00:56:41   it is so complicated and not to defend it, but it is really new and Apple and the EU

00:56:50   clearly are still figuring out what does this document actually mean?

00:56:54   Right?

00:56:55   Like we're getting ready to go through that all again over the CTF stuff.

00:57:00   But yes, but I think that it is clear that they are not going about it in the simplest

00:57:10   of ways.

00:57:11   Like we have been talking about this the whole time, like their approach to the DMA, they

00:57:17   are doing literally everything they can to comply the littlest, right?

00:57:23   They are not entering into this with like earnestness or good faith.

00:57:33   And I understand why because they are a corporation, but I believe that that goes back to what

00:57:41   me and Federico saying of like, I think that the way that they are approaching the DMA

00:57:47   and their compliance to the DMA would make it incredibly plausible that they are using

00:57:54   the fact that the DMA makes it difficult for interoperability for these new features that

00:58:00   they have to be able to also undermine the DMA to users, right?

00:58:07   Like if you think the DMA is good, but now your iPhone will be held back, you may think

00:58:15   it is less good.

00:58:17   And like people talk about like, oh, the DMA was very popular in the European Parliament.

00:58:22   The European Parliament is like any legislative body in which it is made up by elected officials.

00:58:32   If these people believe that they're more likely to get voted in based upon changing

00:58:38   their opinion on something, they will do that, right?

00:58:41   Like if a European member of parliament believes that their constituents would like the DMA

00:58:48   to be repealed because they're not getting the features that they want on their devices,

00:58:53   the support will change for the DMA, right?

00:58:57   So like I do believe that they are looking at this and like this is complicated, but

00:59:03   I also believe that there is, that there are people inside of Apple who are looking at

00:59:09   this as an opportunity to change hearts and minds over what the DMA is doing.

00:59:15   Yeah.

00:59:16   And it's like Apple wants to change it, right?

00:59:20   The EU wants to change it as well, like in different directions.

00:59:23   And there's just going to be, I think it's just going to be a long time before we, that

00:59:29   stuff, that sort of all settles out.

00:59:32   I don't know.

00:59:34   Because the other thing that they've got to be, look, all of this, the department of justice

00:59:39   is saying some other stuff.

00:59:41   Like the department of justice is main cases around Apple's lock-in.

00:59:45   Yep.

00:59:47   So I don't know.

00:59:49   It's definitely coming here too.

00:59:52   And so then what are they going to do?

00:59:53   Like, you know, Apple intelligence in the U S like it would just be the UK.

00:59:57   Like where, where is it going to be?

01:00:00   Yeah.

01:00:01   Land of the free home of the brave, the United Kingdom, you know, getting, getting all the

01:00:03   features.

01:00:04   My, like if we fast forwarded a year, like let's just say we played a game making predictions

01:00:12   about what the future could hold October, by the way, I double checked that today.

01:00:16   I was wondering, I was wondering what it was forward to October.

01:00:19   Yeah.

01:00:20   My suspicion is that some of these Apple intelligence features will indeed show up in the EU.

01:00:28   That Apple is either overreacting to the DMA or they're not showing those features because

01:00:33   they're sad and angry or something else.

01:00:37   I suspect some of that stuff will surface and in the EU, maybe not all of it, but I

01:00:43   can't, I just can't imagine a world where Apple will continue to introduce features.

01:00:50   I'm doing huge air quotes, knowing that they won't be allowed in parts of the world.

01:00:55   Like that just doesn't seem to make sense to me either.

01:00:57   I don't know.

01:00:58   It's all very confusing and hard and complicated.

01:01:00   I'm glad I'm not a lawyer working for Apple or the European Union because it seems like

01:01:05   this is a lawyer on podcasts.

01:01:07   We just play it on podcasts.

01:01:08   It does seem, I think wherever you stand on any of this, this huge spectrum of opinions

01:01:14   about the DMA, I think we can all agree that it is so complicated.

01:01:20   It has unintentional side effects, right?

01:01:24   The way that it is actually written and some of the things are explained in the DMA don't

01:01:29   actually make a lot of sense with the way the world actually works and are so open to

01:01:34   interpretation that you have things like this, like, okay, Apple's not like that.

01:01:41   Like, Oh no, for sure.

01:01:43   And if it's coming to the U S is going to be just as bad, you know, like maybe even

01:01:46   worse cause I don't think we have any elected officials that know anything about the internet,

01:01:52   but it is because it's fuzzy.

01:01:56   You end up in situations potentially like this good times though.

01:02:01   Right.

01:02:02   Yeah.

01:02:03   So Federico, do you think that you will get access to Apple intelligence features during

01:02:10   the beta period based upon the way that, uh, that you've got SharePlay and stuff?

01:02:17   Seems like it.

01:02:18   Yeah.

01:02:19   Cause I'm just wondering like for your review, like what do you, do you, have you thought

01:02:23   about like say that any of these features are going to be in iOS 18.0 but you didn't

01:02:31   have access to them?

01:02:33   Like if I don't have your approach at all, if I don't have access to them, I can not

01:02:38   review them.

01:02:39   Yeah.

01:02:40   Simple as that.

01:02:41   Um, I'm not traveling to the U S just to try those features.

01:02:47   You know, I want that though.

01:02:48   Like I just wonder like what is the level, you know,

01:02:52   I'm actually like, I'm actually still thinking about the very fact of like a review in Apple

01:02:57   intelligence to begin with.

01:03:00   And I think I will, if I have access to those features, I'm not sure whether I will do image

01:03:05   playgrounds.

01:03:06   We'll see.

01:03:07   Um, I'm sure the whole chapter will have a giant disclaimer before it, but yeah, I'm

01:03:13   leaning toward having the Apple intelligence chapter in my review, uh, provided that I

01:03:18   do have access to it.

01:03:20   And it seems like I should based on how things have been going so far with the way my iPhone

01:03:26   is a set up.

01:03:27   Yeah.

01:03:28   Yeah.

01:03:29   I guess people I'm sure are aware that none of this is in the betas yet.

01:03:32   Like we had beta two just a couple of days ago and these features aren't there.

01:03:36   Apple had said they're coming later this summer.

01:03:39   We don't know exactly what that means in terms of time or what features come in the beta

01:03:45   and what features maybe a year from now.

01:03:47   Like nobody knows.

01:03:49   Yeah.

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01:06:07   So there's a beta 2 of everything iOS 18, iPadOS, MacOS, Sequoia, which I heard the

01:06:16   show last week.

01:06:17   You guys still don't like the name, especially Mike.

01:06:19   I don't like it.

01:06:20   It's hard to spell.

01:06:22   Sequoia.

01:06:23   I don't like the way it feels coming out of my mouth.

01:06:27   It's fine.

01:06:29   WatchOS, which I also have on my Apple Watch Ultra, VisionOS, everything.

01:06:37   And I just wanted to pull out some of the highlights, things that have changed.

01:06:41   Starting with iPadOS, the alternative app stores in the EU, as well as the browser entitlement

01:06:48   for browser, the one I use, the Just-In-Time compiler, those are available in iPadOS 18

01:06:54   beta 2.

01:06:55   So, I'm sure at some point, the folks at AltStore will be making a native version of AltStore

01:07:02   on the iPad, and it'll work natively with an iPadOS UI in iPadOS 18.

01:07:09   So that-

01:07:10   I guess any of their apps need to get through notarization first.

01:07:13   Well-

01:07:14   They can do that, you know?

01:07:18   We don't need to get into that.

01:07:19   But yeah, that's-

01:07:20   The DMA, am I right?

01:07:21   Yeah.

01:07:22   It's going so well.

01:07:26   We just moved on from that topic.

01:07:29   Let's keep it in the past.

01:07:32   The other feature that has been enabled, I have not been able to use this one because

01:07:36   I have not installed Sequoia on my half of the MacBook Air.

01:07:43   iPhone mirroring is now available.

01:07:46   And I have seen, obviously this is not in the EU, as we have discussed in the previous

01:07:51   segment, but I have seen that iPhone mirroring works even if you are mirroring your Mac to

01:08:00   the Vision Pro.

01:08:01   So you can do a double mirror.

01:08:03   You can mirror your phone to the Mac and then mirror the Mac to the Vision Pro.

01:08:07   What is the next step?

01:08:09   Mirror a Vision Pro to an iPad?

01:08:11   I'm pretty sure I saw somebody mirroring their Apple Watch to their iPhone and then their

01:08:18   iPhone to their Mac.

01:08:19   Incredible.

01:08:20   I heard you like mirrors.

01:08:23   So there is one more step, right?

01:08:25   You can go watch to phone to phone to Mac to Mac to Vision Pro, and then you could call

01:08:30   someone and share the screen with them.

01:08:33   Yeah, yeah.

01:08:34   Why not?

01:08:35   Why not?

01:08:36   Do it all the way.

01:08:37   But yeah, I'm very excited to try the iPhone mirroring.

01:08:42   It seems like it's a very cool idea.

01:08:44   I mean, we have talked about it, the way that it works when the phone is locked and everything.

01:08:48   So yeah, even better that it works while wearing the Vision Pro, mirror to the Mac, and then

01:08:54   mirror the Mac to the Vision Pro.

01:08:55   Very nice.

01:08:57   Some shortcuts actions I want to mention, because shortcuts may not be changing much,

01:09:02   but it seems like Apple is adding new actions to shortcuts this year, and actually actions

01:09:07   that I like as opposed to last year.

01:09:11   So there's a couple of new shortcuts, like meta actions, like shortcuts actions about shortcuts.

01:09:19   One of them is add to home screen.

01:09:21   So this is an action that you can drop in other shortcuts to add one of your shortcuts

01:09:29   to the home screen.

01:09:30   So imagine, for example, you're Matthew Cassinelli and you want to add, I don't know, 200 shortcuts

01:09:35   to your home screen.

01:09:37   Now you can create a shortcut that cycles through your shortcuts library and adds an

01:09:43   icon for each of those shortcuts to your home screen.

01:09:47   That's something you can do if you're Matthew or also if you're somebody else.

01:09:51   Allow me for a moment to just ask the simple question.

01:09:55   Yes.

01:09:56   Why?

01:09:57   Like there are so many things that could be in shortcuts that could be added to shortcuts.

01:10:02   Why is this the thing?

01:10:03   Look, I agree with you.

01:10:04   Like stability.

01:10:05   Could they add that?

01:10:06   Like the DMA disallow stability in shortcuts.

01:10:10   I'm sorry.

01:10:11   Oh, God.

01:10:12   Oh, God.

01:10:13   Look, I agree.

01:10:17   I'm just saying that somebody at the shortcuts team must have had the idea of like, hey,

01:10:23   wouldn't it be nice if instead of adding 20 shortcuts from a folder manually one by one

01:10:28   to your home screen, you could automate the process.

01:10:32   Now that can be automated.

01:10:34   Sure.

01:10:35   Same with creating an iCloud link.

01:10:38   Now you can also automate the process of creating an iCloud link for shortcuts.

01:10:43   And you know, you want to share 20 shortcuts at once?

01:10:47   Be my guest.

01:10:48   With this action now you can.

01:10:51   There are some new actions for the journal app.

01:10:54   These are actually nice.

01:10:55   You can search your journal entries.

01:10:57   You can create a new journal entry from shortcuts.

01:11:00   But the one I'm most excited about is the changes to reminders, which we'll get to in

01:11:08   a minute.

01:11:09   Also because Steven has thoughts about reminders.

01:11:12   Apple, it seems to be that they are replacing the add new reminder action with a different

01:11:20   action called create reminder.

01:11:23   Now at the moment there's both of them in the shortcuts beta.

01:11:27   I'm pretty convinced that one of them will go away or will become like deprecated with

01:11:32   iOS 18.

01:11:34   The new one called create reminder has more options than the old one.

01:11:39   Specifically, finally, you can basically set almost every single property of a shortcut

01:11:47   with a reminder with this action.

01:11:50   The one that was most intriguing to me, finally, you can create a reminder from shortcuts and

01:11:58   you can define which section of a reminders list it should go into.

01:12:07   Remember they rolled out sections like columns last year in reminders?

01:12:14   Now you can say when I create this reminder, not only should it go into my relay FM list,

01:12:22   but it should also go under the upgrade section of that list.

01:12:26   I wanted this so bad last year, but then I ended up just moving to things instead for

01:12:30   the things that I needed.

01:12:32   Yeah, and what's great is that because of the issues with the things actions that I

01:12:37   was having with the beta, I was able to basically translate all of my things, automations and

01:12:44   shortcuts to reminders, automations and shortcuts.

01:12:48   And they basically now perform exactly the same functionality by just swapping the things

01:12:53   actions with the reminders ones.

01:12:56   And this was the final thing that I was missing.

01:12:58   Like let me say which section it should go into.

01:13:02   And now this is possible.

01:13:04   So that's cool.

01:13:05   Steven.

01:13:06   It's me.

01:13:07   You also have reminders.

01:13:09   I do.

01:13:10   I do.

01:13:11   Before we get to that, I do just want to say like one thing that I just thought of when

01:13:15   you were talking about that new shortcut.

01:13:17   And we've talked about this before on the show, but I think it's probably in the last

01:13:21   beta cycle.

01:13:22   So I want to highlight it again.

01:13:24   I really find it confounding that Apple will release some piece of software that like isn't

01:13:33   integrated with the rest of their pieces of software.

01:13:35   Like, okay, you added this feature in reminders, but your shortcut support for it didn't come

01:13:41   until a year later.

01:13:42   Like yeah.

01:13:44   Are we stretched so thin internally that that's not possible?

01:13:47   It's like there's no one.

01:13:48   Like there should be a master list somewhere.

01:13:51   Like if you release code at Apple, you know, in these sorts of categories, it should also

01:13:56   support these types of things.

01:13:57   And it really blows my mind.

01:13:59   It feels so half done sometimes of like, oh, hey, we have this great feature, but we left

01:14:05   out the one thing and maybe you'll get it next year.

01:14:09   Based on their guidance from WWDC sessions, it seems like the one thing that will finally

01:14:14   change this trend is Apple intelligence.

01:14:18   Because they basically said they had a session in which they said, we're changing our guidance

01:14:24   from what it used to be, which was some of your app actions should also be shortcuts

01:14:32   actions.

01:14:33   So changing it to all of your app actions should also be available in shortcuts because

01:14:39   that's what they want to do, right?

01:14:41   With Apple intelligence and the semantic index and all the things that they will roll out

01:14:45   in 2025.

01:14:46   Like you should be able to just say what you want to do and that request should be completed.

01:14:52   So I would be shocked if what you just mentioned doesn't change because of Apple intelligence.

01:14:58   Yeah, me too.

01:15:00   Definitely hopeful for that.

01:15:02   So yeah, so every year I pick something and reminders to ask for.

01:15:06   It's kind of a bit of a tradition and this year I'm returning to one that has not been

01:15:12   changed.

01:15:14   But before I talk about what that is, I, you know, in 2022 I asked for a badge to reflect

01:15:24   the today count and we were able to get that in Iowa 16.

01:15:29   And then last year I asked for better options in organizing the today view and that is in

01:15:33   the beta of iOS 18.

01:15:35   So I feel pretty good about my track record the last couple of years.

01:15:39   You are like a reverse project manager.

01:15:43   Yes.

01:15:44   Yes.

01:15:45   You're like a king of feedback.

01:15:49   Well like they released the software and then Steven's like, what about this though?

01:15:53   Oh yeah.

01:15:54   It goes backwards.

01:15:55   I think some people who work with me in real life think that I do that anyways.

01:15:59   Like, oh, we just pushed this thing to our CMS at work.

01:16:01   Oh, can we do this thing instead?

01:16:03   You know, sometimes it happens in reverse.

01:16:05   I have no idea what you're talking about.

01:16:07   I know, but because you weren't on a conference call with a developer at 8 p.m. last night.

01:16:12   It's fine.

01:16:13   Fine.

01:16:14   Nothing you didn't know about right now.

01:16:16   This year I could feel your blood pressure from here.

01:16:19   It's awesome.

01:16:20   Well, because usually it means that something's going to break, you know, that's where it

01:16:24   ends up going.

01:16:25   But it's time to do some things.

01:16:29   So this year I'm returning to a well that I've asked for not on the blog, but in two

01:16:35   previous feedbacks.

01:16:36   All those numbers in the bottom of the blog post.

01:16:41   But this year I ran to the press and I'm asking for the task inspector on the Mac to have

01:16:47   the same functionality as the task inspector has on iOS and iPadOS.

01:16:54   I understand why they're different.

01:16:56   The reminders Mac app, as far as I know, is still the old app kit app.

01:17:01   It has not been converted to like Mac catalyst, like messages and maps and some others.

01:17:08   I think honestly reminders is a really good candidate for Mac catalyzation.

01:17:14   But you know, there's also the question of like, how far into the future is Mac catalyst

01:17:17   going to last?

01:17:18   Lots of things there.

01:17:19   So I understand why it's different.

01:17:21   But the example that I highlight, because it's the one that bothers me the most is that

01:17:25   in the reminders app on iOS and iPadOS, there's a drop down to change what list a task is on.

01:17:33   And on the Mac, the only way to do that is drag and drop a task from one list to another.

01:17:41   And like, it's fine, you can totally change where a task is based on that.

01:17:46   But it's slower, because it's not in the inspector, I'm already you know, fiddling with due dates

01:17:50   and stuff.

01:17:51   It's error prone, especially if you have a long list of lists, right, you can drop it

01:17:58   on the wrong one easily, and then you don't know where it went.

01:18:01   But lastly, and probably most importantly, I don't think most like normal kind of users

01:18:07   are that familiar or maybe even comfortable with drag and drop to begin with.

01:18:13   And so I would love for in lieu of give me the entire inspector from the iPhone on the

01:18:18   Mac, I think that that's the ideal.

01:18:21   Having the ability to change what list a task is in from the inspector really feels like

01:18:26   something that should be there.

01:18:27   And so that is my quest this year.

01:18:31   So Steven, given your pedigree as someone who can work these reminders miracles, will you

01:18:39   be my my priest in this case, and you know, put in a good word for a request that I have,

01:18:46   with the reminders gods, if you will.

01:18:49   So it's look, it's a very simple thing.

01:18:51   All right.

01:18:52   So you know how you can create smart lists in reminders, right?

01:18:57   You can like make a custom list with a bunch of rules.

01:19:01   And I just want to make a smart list that shows me reminders from two lists at once.

01:19:07   Like I have a Mac stories list and a club Mac stories list.

01:19:11   And I just want to say make a smart view, you know, that shows me reminders from both,

01:19:17   you know, so like I can make one that says, here's your Mac stories and your club Mac

01:19:22   stories tasks for today.

01:19:25   Unfortunately when you pick the list filter, you can say include a list, but it only lets

01:19:32   you include one list at a time.

01:19:35   Like just let me include two lists at the same time.

01:19:39   You know, let me pick one or multiple ones.

01:19:42   And it's been this way for like three years.

01:19:45   And every year I keep mentioning it and it never works.

01:19:48   So maybe if you will be, you know, my, my, you know, my middleman in this case, you know,

01:19:55   given your, given your powers, maybe it'll work.

01:19:58   I'm happy to, I'm happy to be your representative on this.

01:20:03   Thank you.

01:20:04   Thank you.

01:20:05   I vote, I give you my vote.

01:20:06   Thank you. For whatever you're applying for, you have my vote.

01:20:10   That's good.

01:20:11   You know, we're going to wedge the DMA straight into reminders.

01:20:14   It's going to be sick.

01:20:16   Cool.

01:20:17   I did.

01:20:18   I did.

01:20:19   Maybe not for today, but like, I feel like there is a conversation to be had about the

01:20:21   value of the feedback system and anytime you write something about this.

01:20:25   Can you invite Casey when you want to do it?

01:20:36   When there is an episode where both me and Federico aren't here, then like go crazy.

01:20:41   My favorite thing in this blog post that Steven wrote was at the end, he said, this was filed

01:20:46   as feedback, blah, blah, blah.

01:20:47   The day this blog post was published.

01:20:49   It can also be found as blah, blah, blah from 2022 and blah, blah, blah from 2023.

01:20:53   I enjoyed the pettiness.

01:20:55   I love it.

01:20:56   I don't, I didn't mean for that to be petty.

01:20:58   I meant for that to be like, I I've been asking for this repeatedly.

01:21:02   Here's like, here are the receipts.

01:21:04   But do you need to refile it though?

01:21:07   Well, so that, that is like a question, right?

01:21:10   I don't know because my feedback for the other things that have been fixed are still open.

01:21:15   So like I closed them because they've been addressed.

01:21:18   I don't know the hygiene of the feedback system once it's internal.

01:21:22   You want to get back on the top of the pile.

01:21:24   I want to get back on top of the pile.

01:21:25   Yeah.

01:21:26   And, and obviously now in the summer is a good time to, to do that sort of thing.

01:21:32   Well, maybe my, my reading of this as petty tells you why I'm maybe not the best person

01:21:37   to talk.

01:21:38   Well, that's always the, there's always people who feel like the feedback system is like,

01:21:44   you're doing, no, we're talking about it.

01:21:45   We're talking about it now.

01:21:47   Yeah.

01:21:48   No, no.

01:21:49   We actually did decide we weren't doing this.

01:21:52   No.

01:21:53   There's a feed, their feedback numbers in the blog post.

01:21:55   The blog post is referenced in the feedback.

01:21:58   Please please remind us team, please.

01:22:01   In other news, RCS has appeared and is enabled in the U S for beta users on AT&T Verizon mobile,

01:22:11   which is really cool.

01:22:12   The Royal crown system.

01:22:15   Yep.

01:22:16   That is what it stands for.

01:22:18   Yeah.

01:22:19   Yeah.

01:22:20   Yeah.

01:22:21   Cause it's the King over SMS.

01:22:22   Go UK.

01:22:23   Go UK once again.

01:22:24   It's the only way you can get to see the crown jewels.

01:22:26   You need to receive an RCS.

01:22:28   You know, I think I'm actually becoming a fan of the UK.

01:22:31   Like you should realize this is something I've realized over the past few months.

01:22:36   We'll all be there together in like three weeks.

01:22:38   Tell me, yeah.

01:22:39   Tell me why Federico I'm intrigued.

01:22:41   Cause you can come, you're coming back and you'll be able to also like, you know, soak

01:22:46   in more of the UK with people from the UK.

01:22:49   I don't know.

01:22:50   First of all, first of all, of all the countries that have that like begin with the U it seems

01:22:55   to be like the most reasonable one.

01:22:57   Hey.

01:22:58   Okay.

01:22:59   Don't talk about your way that way.

01:23:02   I don't, I don't know anything about what's going on there.

01:23:05   Well, I was not, I was not referring to Uruguay.

01:23:10   This song's about me.

01:23:12   They usually become, they usually start with United in the, yeah.

01:23:17   Anyway, so obviously jokes aside, I don't know.

01:23:19   It feels obviously like, so they speak English, but it's like people don't go around, you

01:23:25   know, with guns, for example.

01:23:28   They have the Royal family, which is pretty cool.

01:23:30   And like you're going to go see the Royal Palance palace and there's the guards with

01:23:34   the funny hats.

01:23:35   You know, the South bank really surprised me in London.

01:23:40   Really nice place.

01:23:41   My favorite place.

01:23:42   Federica's favorite place.

01:23:43   One of my, one of my new favorite places.

01:23:48   The company that we're going to talk about this next week that provided the lenses for

01:23:53   my meta Ray bands is located in the UK.

01:23:56   Mike lives in the UK.

01:23:59   I don't know.

01:24:00   It's just a bunch of factors contributing to my feelings toward the UK shifting.

01:24:05   You know, as of late, you're welcome anytime.

01:24:09   Yeah.

01:24:10   Thank you.

01:24:11   See, it's also what you need is your RCS message.

01:24:14   It's trying to get in.

01:24:15   Yeah.

01:24:16   You can go ahead.

01:24:17   So yes.

01:24:18   So you're getting, you know, the larger media files, rich messages with audio, read receipts

01:24:25   and in the messages app, it has a little indication of whether it's SMS or RCS because the bubbles

01:24:32   are still green.

01:24:33   They didn't introduce a third color, still green, but you do get a little bit of an affordance.

01:24:40   So you know, like, Oh, I'm going to drop this giant PDF in here.

01:24:43   It'll go through.

01:24:44   Whereas an SMS, it wouldn't in the past.

01:24:47   So so yeah, super exciting.

01:24:49   I am glad that the carriers are already on board with this, at least the big three.

01:24:54   And I'm sure others will follow because there's also like a carrier thing that has to change.

01:24:58   But very clearly, this is now on its way.

01:25:01   And it's, I think it's good.

01:25:04   Cool.

01:25:05   Is that it?

01:25:07   I think so.

01:25:09   Okay.

01:25:10   Well, if you want to find more of us on the internet, if you want to be one of Federico's

01:25:17   seven secret websites, you can if you want to make Federico one of your favorite seven

01:25:25   secret websites, I said six or seven, six or seven.

01:25:29   Like how that's the secret is like one number.

01:25:31   I don't know.

01:25:32   You can be in the seventh, you can be the seventh or take we are taking auditions for

01:25:37   the seventh secret website.

01:25:41   You can submit those to Federico on Mastodon of Viteeche at max stories.net or on threads

01:25:46   as Viteeche.

01:25:47   And of course, he's the editor in chief of max stories.net.

01:25:50   Lots of super exciting stuff going on over there.

01:25:53   I know y'all are all gearing up for review season.

01:25:57   You know, sometimes John just appears in our group thread is like, I'm rebuilding my Mac

01:26:00   for the fifth time this week.

01:26:01   And then it disappears again.

01:26:02   Yeah, he does that.

01:26:03   That's that's so happy.

01:26:04   I retired from reviews, you know?

01:26:08   Well, you're fired more than retired.

01:26:11   I was forced out actually.

01:26:12   Yeah.

01:26:13   Unless I'm happy that I was forced out and then I retired.

01:26:18   Maybe you could review a retired platform, but it's like the same review every year because

01:26:22   it's been retired, you know?

01:26:25   That feels like something you would do.

01:26:27   It does seem like something I would do.

01:26:30   If you want to see me do that.

01:26:31   Steven just opened the reminders list and added that to it.

01:26:34   Oh, it's on the wrong list.

01:26:36   I can't change it easily.

01:26:37   Come on.

01:26:38   You can't do anything about it.

01:26:41   If you want to maybe see what that could look like, you can find my writing at 512 pixels.net

01:26:46   and I am ismh86 on Mastodon and threads.

01:26:51   You can find Mike's work all across the relay FM podcast empire.

01:26:56   You can also find it at Cortex brand and he is on Mastodon and threads as I Mike I M Y

01:27:02   K.E.

01:27:03   I'd like to thank our sponsors this week.

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01:27:36   Guys say goodbye.

01:27:37   How do you cheerio?

01:27:38   Bye y'all.

01:27:38   Cheerio.

01:27:39   - Bye y'all.