0:00:00(upbeat music)
0:00:02From Relay, welcome to Connected.
0:00:09It's the world's greatest low key podcast
0:00:12about the Apple devices we take with us.
0:00:14This is episode 519.
0:00:17It's sponsored by NetSuite, Fitbod, and Backblaze.
0:00:21My name is Brendan Bigley.
0:00:22I'm no chairman.
0:00:23I'm a usurper king, I guess.
0:00:26And I'm joined by the one true John.
0:00:30- Hello, Brendan, how are you?
0:00:32- Oh, I'm just spectacular.
0:00:34I'm just spectacular.
0:00:35We're also joined, of course, by the man,
0:00:38the myth, the legend, it's Federico Vitici.
0:00:40- Hello.
0:00:41Hi, what an intro.
0:00:43I love it.
0:00:43- Legendary, legendary.
0:00:46- I am the only familiar voice on Connected this week.
0:00:51I thought we could come up with a funny backstory
0:00:55as to where Steven and Mike are, what they're doing.
0:00:58Like, have we replaced them?
0:01:00And the answer is yes, we have replaced them.
0:01:03This is gonna be Connected going forward.
0:01:05We thank Mike for their decade of service.
0:01:09It's been a pleasure,
0:01:11but it's even gonna be more of a pleasure
0:01:13with John and Brendan.
0:01:15So yeah, these are like--
0:01:17- They earned a break, I'd say.
0:01:19- Next end of vacation.
0:01:20- We're doubling the pleasure here, I'm telling you.
0:01:24- Yeah, it's gonna be, it's...
0:01:25So we're gonna try and somehow respect
0:01:31the traditional structure of the show.
0:01:33And yeah, I'm sure we'll hear from Mike and Steven
0:01:38at some point over the internet, over iMessage.
0:01:42But yeah, this is gonna be Connected.
0:01:43So anyway, moving on, follow up.
0:01:45This is something that Mike back when we used to do Connected
0:01:53we used to play this game where we wanted to predict
0:01:56where Apple was going to announce.
0:01:58And Mike, in one of his risky predictions,
0:02:01predicted that Apple was going to publicly state
0:02:05the amount of RAM in the new iPhones.
0:02:08And he also said that Apple was gonna do that
0:02:11at the keynote for the iPhone,
0:02:13and that they were gonna say that it was explicitly
0:02:15for powering Apple intelligence.
0:02:17Now, they did say that they were,
0:02:21they did mention memory during the keynote.
0:02:23They did say that it was for Apple intelligence.
0:02:26They did not specify the amount of RAM.
0:02:28That came a few days ago in an interview with Johnny Srouji
0:02:33confirming that all iPhone 16 models
0:02:36have eight gigs of RAM, as was expected.
0:02:40So yeah, there you go.
0:02:42Apple is now openly talking about RAM in iPhones.
0:02:46If you asked, I guess, people in this community
0:02:48a few years ago, they would have said
0:02:50that it was unthinkable that Apple was gonna do this
0:02:52for the iPhone.
0:02:54- Oh yeah, RAM doesn't matter, right?
0:02:55Wasn't that the line for a while?
0:02:57- That was the line, that was the line.
0:02:58Oh, Android cares about RAM because it runs so bad.
0:03:03Which is funny because now everybody cares about RAM
0:03:07because that's what powers large language models.
0:03:10So yeah, there you go.
0:03:12Mike was right, eventually, thanks to an interview.
0:03:17We have a tiny topic that it started as fun news
0:03:22and then very quickly became very sad news.
0:03:29John, what's up?
0:03:30- So this is about the legendary iOS game Flappy Bird.
0:03:35And if people remember, this game has been gone
0:03:38for a very, very long time.
0:03:40It took the world by storm.
0:03:43It was notoriously difficult to play.
0:03:46As you navigated a little bird through obstacles.
0:03:49And its developer ultimately pulled the game
0:03:53from the app store because of online harassment
0:03:57more than anything else.
0:03:58He was not happy with the attention
0:04:01and he just said, you know what, it's not worth it.
0:04:03And pulled the game from the store.
0:04:05And it's never been heard from since
0:04:06until a couple of days ago.
0:04:08He not only pulled the game from the store,
0:04:10but he disappeared off of what was then Twitter.
0:04:15And last week or maybe five or six days ago,
0:04:19Flappy Bird burst back on the scene with a trailer.
0:04:23And there was a website and it was called flappybird.org.
0:04:27Which in and of itself is kind of a weird URL
0:04:30to pick for a game.
0:04:32But it was coming back.
0:04:33And it was originally reported that this was a group
0:04:37of enthusiasts who were taking over the game
0:04:40and moving it forward and coming up with new characters
0:04:43and all sorts of things, right?
0:04:45And what had turned out to be the case
0:04:48is that first of all, people started poking around
0:04:51and they realized, well, the original developer
0:04:53had no part in this whatsoever.
0:04:56And in fact, the original developer's trademark rights
0:05:00had been swiped from him in I believe a legal proceeding
0:05:04in which these new developers got hold
0:05:08of the trademark rights because they weren't being used.
0:05:11And that's a very common thing with trademark.
0:05:13I mean, if you don't use a trademark, you lose it.
0:05:15And someone can challenge it and say,
0:05:17hey, this person's not using this, we want it.
0:05:20And that's effectively what they did.
0:05:22So what they did is probably very legal.
0:05:24It's not necessarily, it doesn't mean
0:05:26it's not a little scummy.
0:05:28And there also seems to be some notion
0:05:32that this might be adjacent to cryptocurrency
0:05:36because there was an old version of the website
0:05:39where some people did some digging
0:05:40and found references to cryptocurrencies
0:05:43and Web3 stuff.
0:05:45- Oh no, no.
0:05:47- Yeah.
0:05:47- They said it's like the only game
0:05:51where you can play and earn simultaneously.
0:05:54- Oh no.
0:05:55- Yeah.
0:05:56- And that's because all the other ones
0:05:57that claim they could do that have failed.
0:05:59(laughs)
0:06:00- This is very sad.
0:06:03Brandon, back in the day, Flappy Bird, yes or no?
0:06:08- Oh, huge yes, huge yes.
0:06:11I was like a Flappy Bird obsessive.
0:06:13I needed to beat the high scores of everyone in my life.
0:06:15I was like really on, I was sending screenshots
0:06:19of Flappy Bird high scores to all of my friends
0:06:21and like just a really overt attempt
0:06:25to goad them into competing against me all the time.
0:06:28I loved it.
0:06:29The developer, one of the reasons that he claimed,
0:06:32Dong Nguyen is his name,
0:06:33one of the reasons he bailed on the app
0:06:36outside of the harassment he was receiving,
0:06:37both online and offline,
0:06:39is that he said that the game was too addicting.
0:06:42He didn't want to make a game that was that addicting,
0:06:43which I thought was interesting.
0:06:45I didn't consider the game to be addicting, honestly,
0:06:48but I did consider it to be deeply, deeply fun.
0:06:53And like maybe one of the most streamlined iOS apps
0:06:57that existed.
0:06:58I thought it was like,
0:06:59as far as games played on a phone go,
0:07:01really, really, really simple
0:07:04in a way that was satisfying.
0:07:06- Yeah, and the years since,
0:07:08I mean, I guess he developed other games.
0:07:09He had a game studio and none of them really--
0:07:11- Swing Copters was the next one.
0:07:13I loved that one too.
0:07:14- Right, and none of them really took off
0:07:15quite like Flappy Bird,
0:07:17and I don't believe any of them
0:07:18are being developed any longer.
0:07:20- No, can I also just shout out
0:07:23that the name of the company of quote unquote enthusiasts
0:07:26who are excited about bringing Flappy Bird back to life
0:07:28is a company called, and this is for real,
0:07:31Game Tech Holdings,
0:07:34which sounds like adjacent to the evil company
0:07:38from like Alien.
0:07:39Like it sounds like--
0:07:39- Game Tech Holdings?
0:07:41Is that-- - Yeah, it sounds like a bit
0:07:43in a sci-fi movie about capitalism,
0:07:46Game Tech Holdings.
0:07:47- The Game Tech Holdings.
0:07:49Okay, wow, this is quite sad.
0:07:53I was excited for like five minutes when I saw this,
0:07:57and then immediately I saw somebody saying,
0:07:59"Well, it looks like the developer is not involved."
0:08:01That actually there were legal proceedings against him,
0:08:04and that soured the whole story pretty quickly.
0:08:07Which is too bad. - It's brutal.
0:08:10- Yeah.
0:08:11All right, moving on.
0:08:14John, it's September.
0:08:17Which means?
0:08:19- Which means that Relay is raising money for St. Jude,
0:08:24and in just a couple of days as we record this,
0:08:27on Friday, Mike, Steven, and the Relay crew
0:08:30will be doing their 12-hour podcast-a-thon.
0:08:34That's Friday, September 20th,
0:08:36to raise money for Childhood Cancer Awareness Month,
0:08:40which is the whole month of September.
0:08:42Now, if you listen to Connected,
0:08:44you probably know a little bit about St. Jude by now,
0:08:46I think, but it does incredible things
0:08:49for kids and their families who have cancer,
0:08:53because not only is it a research hospital
0:08:56that is doing all kinds of great research work
0:08:58to try to prevent childhood cancer,
0:09:01but for the kids who do get sick,
0:09:03it's a place where families can go,
0:09:05they have housing, they have food,
0:09:07they even have teachers there
0:09:10from preschool all the way through 12th grade,
0:09:13so that when kids go for treatments,
0:09:16for up to six weeks, they can get their classwork done
0:09:19and stay up to date with school,
0:09:22so then when they go back home,
0:09:23they're not behind all of their friends.
0:09:26So that's a really great thing that they provide.
0:09:28It's based in Memphis, Tennessee,
0:09:30where Stephen Hackett lives,
0:09:32but it's really a worldwide service,
0:09:34because they're doing all kinds of collaborations
0:09:36with hospitals around the world,
0:09:38researchers, doctors, and things like that,
0:09:41that make this the kind of place that helps kids,
0:09:44whether they're in the United States or really anywhere.
0:09:48So during September, Relay's been raising money.
0:09:51You can go to the website and make a donation,
0:09:54which we'd love you to do.
0:09:56The website is stjue.org/relay.
0:10:00On Friday, they'll be doing the 12-hour podcast-a-thon,
0:10:04which is gonna be streamed on YouTube
0:10:06from noon Eastern on Friday all the way till midnight.
0:10:11It's always a lot of fun to watch that,
0:10:13especially towards the end
0:10:14when the guys are really, really tired,
0:10:16and it's a perfect time to make your donation,
0:10:20because you can send them over goals
0:10:23and make them do silly stuff right there live
0:10:25because of your donation.
0:10:27So check it out today.
0:10:29Go to stjue.org/relay and make sure you make a donation.
0:10:34Thanks.
0:10:36- This episode of Connected is brought to you by NetSuite.
0:10:42What does the future hold for business?
0:10:44Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 answers.
0:10:47Some will say rates will rise or fall.
0:10:49Others might say inflation is up or down.
0:10:52But the only way business owners can know for sure
0:10:55is if someone events a crystal ball.
0:10:57Well, until then, over 38,000 businesses
0:11:01have future-proofed with NetSuite by Oracle,
0:11:04the number one cloud ERP,
0:11:06bringing accounting, financial management,
0:11:08inventory, HR, and more into one fluid platform.
0:11:12With one unified business management suite,
0:11:15there is one source of truth,
0:11:17giving you the visibility and control you need
0:11:19to make quick decisions.
0:11:21With real-time insights and forecasting,
0:11:23you're peering into the future with actionable data.
0:11:27And when you're closing the books in days and not weeks,
0:11:29you're spending less time looking backwards
0:11:32and more time on what's next.
0:11:33Having one source of truth is super important in a business.
0:11:38When we've had data scattered across different silos,
0:11:41it becomes error-prone and time-consuming to make decisions.
0:11:44So essentially, NetSuite is a great opportunity
0:11:48to future-proof your business
0:11:50and get clarity by having a single source of truth.
0:11:53Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide
0:11:56to AI and machine learning now at netsuite.com/connected.
0:12:01The guide is free to you at netsuite, N-E-T-S-U-I-T-E,
0:12:07netsuite.com/connected.
0:12:10Our thanks to NetSuite for the support of the show.
0:12:13- All right, so, John, Brandon, and I, we,
0:12:19we do a podcast together.
0:12:22It's called MPC on Mac Stories.
0:12:24It stands for Next Portable Console,
0:12:26and we talk about handhelds.
0:12:27And we buy a lot of video game handhelds of all kinds.
0:12:31- We do.
0:12:32- The obvious ones like a Nintendo Switch
0:12:34and the Steam Deck, but we are,
0:12:36the three of us were collectively very
0:12:38into emulation handhelds.
0:12:39Android-based, Linux-based, that's what we do.
0:12:43That's what we talk about.
0:12:44But I thought, given that it's Apple release week
0:12:49for operating systems and hardware,
0:12:51I thought that we would talk, take a pause,
0:12:55just briefly from gaming.
0:12:57We are gonna talk about gaming later in the show.
0:13:00- Of course we are.
0:13:01- Of course we are.
0:13:02I mean, it's the MPC crew, what are we gonna do?
0:13:04But at the very least, let's pretend we can also
0:13:07be professional about other topics.
0:13:09And I thought we would talk about our purchases
0:13:13in Apple land this week, if any.
0:13:15And I also wanna talk about the new operating systems.
0:13:19So I kinda wanted to go over what we ordered.
0:13:23If we ordered anything, and Brandon, I wanna hear from you.
0:13:28Did you get anything from Apple this week?
0:13:31- Okay, so I know why you're going to me for it.
0:13:33I get it.
0:13:34I get it.
0:13:35- No, no, no.
0:13:36- I wrote a piece for your website last week.
0:13:40It was called, you shouted out--
0:13:40- People love that article.
0:13:42People love the article, yes.
0:13:43- It was very nice.
0:13:45It was very nice.
0:13:46You shouted out on this show last week as well.
0:13:48It was called, "Maybe I'm Not a Pro Anymore."
0:13:50And the conceit of the piece was,
0:13:52while watching that event, it just started to occur to me
0:13:57that because so many of the new interesting tent pole
0:14:01features of the Pro phone were also available
0:14:04on the base iPhone 16, the reasons to actually upgrade
0:14:08to the Pro were pretty slim.
0:14:10And the more I kind of ruminated what the vibe was
0:14:14between those two, it was like, the Pro phones
0:14:16are really actually just for pros now.
0:14:18Like they showed somebody filming a music video
0:14:21for the weekend and they were like, yeah,
0:14:24check out also this film set where you can use
0:14:26these different audio modes to isolate people's voices
0:14:31in like a cinematic way, like things like that.
0:14:33It was like, oh, this is all stuff that I'm not gonna use.
0:14:35'Cause I am a person who has gotten the Pro phone
0:14:38since it first existed.
0:14:39And I think like, you could go back and forth on this,
0:14:42but I feel like the iPhone X is weirdly the first Pro phone
0:14:45in a lot of ways.
0:14:47Ever since then, I've been on the Pro track
0:14:49and it's mainly just 'cause I love having the extra lens.
0:14:52So anyway, I wrote that piece about like,
0:14:54hey, I don't know if there's really a reason
0:14:55to upgrade to the Pro phone.
0:14:57And with that, drum roll,
0:14:59I sure did upgrade to the Pro phone again.
0:15:01I ordered the 16 Pro and it's really, truly this year
0:15:07just because it comes in gold.
0:15:09Desert titanium, sorry.
0:15:10- Desert titanium.
0:15:12- But I mean, it sure does look like gold
0:15:13and I just really missed having a gold iPhone.
0:15:15I find that the years I have a gold iPhone,
0:15:19I usually switch off every year
0:15:21between a black phone or gold if they have it.
0:15:24I find that whenever I have a gold phone,
0:15:26it just kind of makes me laugh like for the entire year.
0:15:30I love having it.
0:15:31It's like such a kind of silly color for your phone to be.
0:15:35It just brings me a lot of joy.
0:15:38It brings me a lot more joy, I will say,
0:15:39than the natural titanium,
0:15:41which I didn't love.
0:15:42I was kind of surprised.
0:15:43I thought I was gonna like it a lot more than I did,
0:15:45but I've been using it for a year.
0:15:47- Kind of boring after a while.
0:15:49We started all natural titanium
0:15:52and then after a year, I'm looking at this thing.
0:15:54It's just a piece of metal.
0:15:55It looks like a piece of metal.
0:15:57- It's a little beige actually
0:15:58is really what it comes down to.
0:16:00- Yeah, could have been.
0:16:02Yeah, there you go.
0:16:03Like it's very--
0:16:04- It's like Steven's old computers.
0:16:07- Yeah, it's like an iPhone from the mid '90s or something.
0:16:11- Wait a second though.
0:16:14- Yeah.
0:16:15- I would love that.
0:16:15(laughing)
0:16:16- Like a beige plastic iPhone.
0:16:19- Could you imagine?
0:16:20- That looks like a Performa from 1992 or something.
0:16:24- Legitimately, that would be very cool.
0:16:25Like I am content, my kingdom for a PlayStation 5
0:16:29that has the same color scheme as the PS1.
0:16:31- Oh my God.
0:16:32Did you see there was a concept image floating around
0:16:36of a PS5 Pro styled like a PlayStation 1 classic?
0:16:40Ah, so good.
0:16:41So 16 Pro.
0:16:44- I got the 16 Pro.
0:16:45- Not a big phone guy.
0:16:47- No, I am definitely not a big phone guy.
0:16:50I just find that having a big phone, first of all,
0:16:54I just want the thing to fit into my pocket very easily
0:16:57and sometimes the Pro Max does not do that.
0:17:00At least when I've like tried out other people's.
0:17:02But also, I just like, that's what the iPad is for,
0:17:06for me at least.
0:17:07I feel like I don't have a lot of circumstances
0:17:10in which having the Pro Max would be a worthwhile shift
0:17:15for me over having something
0:17:16that's a little bit more compact.
0:17:18I'd be curious, I know you're my expert,
0:17:20I'm curious why Max makes more sense for you
0:17:25than a small one.
0:17:26Like what is the use case for you specifically?
0:17:28- I realized, and there's gonna be a lot of people
0:17:31who are not gonna like this.
0:17:33Sometimes, oh God, it feels good to confess this.
0:17:38Sometimes I watch movies on my phone in bed or TV shows.
0:17:43It's just, you know, it's a silly thing,
0:17:46but it's already in my hand and I can turn it to landscape
0:17:50and it's got a great screen
0:17:52and I don't have to get out of bed and grab my iPad.
0:17:55I don't, like I can just hold it with one hand
0:17:58or I can lay to the side, you know,
0:18:01and look at the phone while I'm--
0:18:03- Very comfortably. - Moving on the side,
0:18:04very comfortably.
0:18:07And I mean, I love my iPad,
0:18:08especially since I moved to the 11 inch,
0:18:10it's so much more comfortable,
0:18:12but sometimes like I watch a lot of YouTube,
0:18:14like generally a lot of YouTube on my phone
0:18:18and the occasional TV shows quite frequently,
0:18:20especially stuff that Sylvia is not into,
0:18:23I just watch on my phone.
0:18:24It's just so much like lower friction
0:18:30than even grabbing an iPad sometimes.
0:18:33It's just, my phone is always with me anyway.
0:18:35And I do like the tallest iPhone possible
0:18:40for browsing the web or reading articles,
0:18:44just seeing more text all at once.
0:18:48It's very comfortable for me.
0:18:49And the final thing I will mention,
0:18:52I also do blog quite a bit from my phone.
0:18:56Like I like, especially like quick posts for Mac stories,
0:19:01just quick things.
0:19:02I love typing them out on the phone.
0:19:04And I think there's something about the fact
0:19:07that you can only use one app at a time when you do that.
0:19:10Like that self-imposed constraint,
0:19:13it really sort of helps creativity
0:19:16because like you just have that text editor open
0:19:19and you gotta be concise
0:19:21and you gotta put together a quick post,
0:19:23might as well just do it on the phone.
0:19:24And so it's kind of counterintuitive maybe,
0:19:28like why would you do that on a phone
0:19:30instead of grabbing your iPad
0:19:31because you have your keyboard and everything,
0:19:34but in a way it sort of helps
0:19:37because that's the only thing you can do, right?
0:19:41- Right. - Yeah.
0:19:42- So yeah, I get the biggest phone possible
0:19:44because I also use it for a lot of entertainment, yeah.
0:19:46- Yeah, the funny thing is that everything
0:19:49you just described is a thing that I also do
0:19:51on my non-Macs phone, but I understand that,
0:19:56it's literally just a subjective opinion between two people.
0:19:59I understand why you would want the bigger one.
0:20:01I do also write a lot of blog posts for my phone
0:20:03as well like sitting on the couch.
0:20:05It is nice, I like doing it.
0:20:06I use IARider specifically,
0:20:10which has the focus mode for when you're writing,
0:20:12which I am obsessed with.
0:20:14I love that app so much, shout out.
0:20:16Shout out IARider team. - Very good app.
0:20:17Very good app.
0:20:18So just the iPhone 16 Pro.
0:20:23- I got, yeah, just the iPhone 16 Pro.
0:20:25I also got another SUTI phone back as my case.
0:20:30- Yeah, they're making the new ones.
0:20:31I got the-- - They're making
0:20:32the new ones, yeah.
0:20:34- I preordered one, I think.
0:20:36Yeah, I preordered one. - Me too.
0:20:37If you don't know SUTI, they make literally,
0:20:40at least until the 16 Pro, they just had these
0:20:42like silicone phone backs that you could get.
0:20:45So it's not a whole case.
0:20:46It's like a MagSafe back on your phone.
0:20:49I got a white one for my natural titanium 15 Pro,
0:20:54which honestly just made the phone look cooler.
0:20:56Like suddenly it looks kind of more futuristic to me
0:20:59in a lot of ways.
0:21:00And ever since SUTI threw that thing out on the web,
0:21:03I feel like a lot of other companies are starting to do it.
0:21:05I feel like Nomad has their own version of this now.
0:21:07- Nomad, they make one.
0:21:08Isn't it called the leather back or something?
0:21:10- I think so. - I think so.
0:21:11Yeah, and they started introducing a bunch of new materials.
0:21:13So now SUTI has their own lineup of new materials.
0:21:16So I got a clear one, which I'm excited about
0:21:19because I buy a gold iPhone.
0:21:20Like it would be, makes sense to have a clear phone back.
0:21:24- I couldn't choose.
0:21:25So I got both the clear and the nano leather material.
0:21:28- Oh, nice. - Oh, interesting.
0:21:30- Yeah.
0:21:31And also the advantage of these cases,
0:21:34you know they're gonna work with the iPhone 16 Pro
0:21:36and the camera button because they don't cover the sides.
0:21:39- It doesn't cover anything.
0:21:40- They don't cover anything at all.
0:21:42- They just cover the back.
0:21:43So you're good to go.
0:21:44- I'm considering getting one of the silicone
0:21:46Apple cases though.
0:21:48The like sapphire glass thing that they're doing
0:21:50with the camera control button, I'm curious about it.
0:21:53- Yeah.
0:21:54I did get an Apple case, but we'll talk about that later.
0:21:58John, what did you get?
0:22:00- So I went with the 16 Pro Max
0:22:03with 512 gigabytes of storage in white.
0:22:08And I think I have only ever had two white iPhones
0:22:14and I've always enjoyed it.
0:22:17I usually get black.
0:22:18I had natural for the 15 Pro Max,
0:22:22but this time I'm going back to white
0:22:24because I've always enjoyed that particular color.
0:22:26And I guess for me, the bigger one,
0:22:29the reason I get the big one
0:22:31is somewhat similar to you Federico.
0:22:33I feel like it's my mini iPad mini.
0:22:36You know, it's the most mini of the--
0:22:38- Yes, yes.
0:22:39- Is really kind of what it comes down to
0:22:41'cause it's really good for reading.
0:22:43In particular, I do a lot of reading on it,
0:22:45a lot of browsing the web.
0:22:46I don't write articles on it like you guys do,
0:22:49but I do watch a lot of video on my phone too.
0:22:51So that's another good reason for it, I think.
0:22:54But yeah, I don't mind having a big phone.
0:22:57And to me, the biggest screen,
0:22:59I always wanna get the biggest screen that's not too big,
0:23:03which is very, very subjective.
0:23:04Like for a long time,
0:23:06I thought that the 12.9 inch iPad Pro was the one for me.
0:23:11It turned out it wasn't, it's the 11 inch
0:23:13because that's like right at the margin
0:23:15where it's not comfortable to hold anymore.
0:23:18- Yeah, I totally agree.
0:23:19- You know, and I love the iPad mini.
0:23:21I've been using an iPad mini for a long time,
0:23:23but I think I'm gonna kinda settle in
0:23:26with an 11 inch iPad Pro and this big phone.
0:23:30And that's gonna kinda be my iPhone/iPad combo
0:23:33going forward for quite a while.
0:23:35- Yeah, yeah.
0:23:36- You know, Federico,
0:23:37I also got one of the new charging pucks
0:23:38'cause I wanna be able to charge at 25 watts.
0:23:42And so I also got one of those little Anker GaN chargers.
0:23:46It's a little tiny one,
0:23:46like the old iPhone charging bricks,
0:23:49but it can handle 30 watts.
0:23:51So I picked up that as well as the puck to use at my desk.
0:23:56- Mm, nice.
0:23:57Brandon, didn't ask you about storage.
0:24:00- Oh yeah, 256.
0:24:03- Same here, yeah.
0:24:04- Yeah, I am like constantly bumping up against the edge
0:24:09of it just because of the amount of photos that I take.
0:24:11So it's really just, I need to be diligent
0:24:13about how many photos I'm deleting.
0:24:15But I used to go with 512 back in the day.
0:24:19And then I just found that I never crossed 256 really,
0:24:23usually, but these days,
0:24:24I think just because of the size of photos
0:24:26and how much I'm doing with like ProRes stuff on there,
0:24:30I'm hitting the storage limit a little bit more
0:24:32than I used to, but still not enough
0:24:34to make me wanna upgrade to the 512 personally.
0:24:37- Okay.
0:24:39- What about you?
0:24:40Where'd you go with Federico?
0:24:41- All right, so it's been a very busy week for me.
0:24:43I got the full slate of things, so.
0:24:47- I love this.
0:24:49- So 16 Pro Max, 256 white.
0:24:53I realized I was only using like 100 gigs
0:24:56of storage on my phone.
0:24:58I use the iCloud, like iCloud for a library online,
0:25:03not locally saved on the phone.
0:25:04So storage doesn't matter.
0:25:06I was only using those 100 gigs
0:25:08for like basically cache of apps,
0:25:10like Spotify, YouTube cache, Safari cache,
0:25:14and a bunch of games.
0:25:15Like I wasn't really using storage.
0:25:17So I got the base model, but yeah, 16 Pro Max in white.
0:25:21It's been a few years since I got a white phone.
0:25:23So I figured, you know, let's just try it.
0:25:25Like I mentioned, I ordered a couple of the SUTI phone backs,
0:25:29but I also couldn't resist
0:25:31and got the very bright yellow Apple silicon.
0:25:36- Oh yeah, that's a nice one.
0:25:37- I forgot what the name of it was, like a super,
0:25:39I thought, you know, I can kind of rock a yellow case,
0:25:42I think I'll do it.
0:25:45Then AirPods 4 with noise cancellation.
0:25:48I was so looking forward to this.
0:25:53So my realization over the past month and a half
0:25:58has actually been a couple of things.
0:26:01The first one was that I still love,
0:26:04and I, Brendan, you wrote about this, I linked to it.
0:26:08I still love the wired earbuds, the ear pods,
0:26:13the Apple ear pods. - Yes, all right.
0:26:16- I bought a little stock of some new ear pods
0:26:21for when the time comes that Apple will discontinue them.
0:26:25I have a few backups in storage.
0:26:27I realized that that shape always worked for my ears
0:26:33and that I was a fan of them.
0:26:35So that's what I've been using
0:26:37with all my video game handhelds.
0:26:39- This is my biggest question about those new ear pods.
0:26:43I'm curious to see how you feel about them.
0:26:45I'm gonna need to trust you with my life on this
0:26:48because I am considering getting them as well.
0:26:50I want to use ear pods so badly
0:26:54and they've never fit in my ears.
0:26:55- So the second realization that I had
0:26:58over the past month and a half was that
0:27:00I've been using AirPods Pro
0:27:04since they came out a few years ago.
0:27:06I thought I was like the biggest AirPods Pro fan,
0:27:10but lately whenever I was leaving them on
0:27:13for like three, four hours,
0:27:15I was always feeling this discomfort in my ears.
0:27:19And I realized I thought I was a fan of AirPods Pro,
0:27:22but actually wearing them for like longer listening sessions
0:27:27or watching a binge in a TV show,
0:27:30like the discomfort of the unique tip
0:27:34was actually bad for me.
0:27:36And I also realized that I was not taking advantage
0:27:40of any of the AirPods Pro specific features.
0:27:43I don't commute,
0:27:46so I don't really need to use noise cancellation.
0:27:48When I'm home, I have two dogs.
0:27:51And so I always want to be able to at least hear
0:27:54if something is going on.
0:27:56Dog owners will understand.
0:27:57Like you need to, like dog is throwing up,
0:28:00you need to know.
0:28:00- Dog owners rise up.
0:28:03You gotta hear that puke. - Exactly.
0:28:04You gotta get the puke and you gotta be fast.
0:28:06You know, especially if you have one of them
0:28:08that for whatever reason, she likes doing it on the sofa.
0:28:12Because I don't know why.
0:28:14At least the other one-
0:28:15- It's happened at this point.
0:28:16It's hard to break a habit.
0:28:17- At least the other one gets down and does it on the floor.
0:28:20But yeah, on the sofa.
0:28:22So you gotta be able to hear, you know, strange noises.
0:28:25And so I realized, well, I'm not using noise cancellation.
0:28:30These tips are not comfortable.
0:28:32I thought, you know, it's been a few years.
0:28:34Why don't I reevaluate the regular AirPods instead?
0:28:39And that was one of the best decisions I've made this year.
0:28:44Just getting the plain AirPods 3 a couple of months ago,
0:28:48life-changing.
0:28:49Like it made me fall in love
0:28:52with the AirPods category all over again.
0:28:55Now I'm fortunate because the, like I said,
0:28:57that shape always worked for my years.
0:29:01Like I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
0:29:05And so I was anticipating these AirPods 4
0:29:09with a USB-C instead of Lightning.
0:29:11The AirPods 3 still had Lightning.
0:29:13And I thought if they do,
0:29:16if they actually do a version of them
0:29:18with noise cancellation, I will get it.
0:29:22Because there is the occasional time
0:29:24when like maybe I'm on a plane or maybe, I don't know,
0:29:27I'm waiting somewhere
0:29:28and I want to block out external noise.
0:29:30There is the occasional time when I may want to use it.
0:29:34And they did it.
0:29:35They did two versions of AirPods 4,
0:29:38both of them with USB-C.
0:29:39Better sound, it seems from the reviews,
0:29:42but also a version that is slightly more expensive
0:29:45with noise cancellation.
0:29:46And it seems like it's actually pretty decent at that.
0:29:48Not as good as AirPods Pro,
0:29:50but like then again, I don't care.
0:29:52So yeah, I got the AirPods 4 with ANC.
0:29:55And lastly, Apple Watch Series 10,
0:30:00is it the 10?
0:30:01- Yes, it is the 10. - Yes, it is 10.
0:30:03- 10.
0:30:03I was, for the past couple of years, I've used the Ultra 1.
0:30:08Never upgraded to the Ultra 2.
0:30:12I like my big watch,
0:30:13but if the big watch can be slimmer
0:30:16and not as rugged as the Ultra on my wrist, I'll go for it.
0:30:21So this one is 46 millimeters instead of 45.
0:30:25So it's actually slightly bigger than the Ultra.
0:30:28I never, ever used the action button on the watch.
0:30:33The thing is I got the Ultra,
0:30:34not because I'm a very active person,
0:30:38like I'm not into any of the sports
0:30:41that the Ultra was designed for.
0:30:44I just got it because it was the big watch
0:30:46with the big display.
0:30:47So if there is a base model watch that has a big display,
0:30:50I'll switch to that.
0:30:52Like I don't need the Ultra.
0:30:53- Yeah.
0:30:54- I think to me, Federico,
0:30:56one of the biggest downsides of the 10
0:30:59that I'm gonna be curious to see
0:31:00how you feel about this is the battery life.
0:31:04When you're coming from an Ultra,
0:31:05one of the things about the Ultra.
0:31:06- Yeah, I guess.
0:31:07- Besides being a big screen is having that battery life.
0:31:11I use the action button myself quite a bit,
0:31:14but that watch, the Ultra, is such an expensive model
0:31:17that it's really not, and I think Apple realizes this.
0:31:21They're not upgrading it on a yearly cycle
0:31:23in the same way they are with the regular Apple Watch
0:31:26because I don't think very many people
0:31:28would upgrade it every single year.
0:31:30My battery is down to like 88% capacity,
0:31:33which is noticeable.
0:31:36It's definitely noticeable,
0:31:37but it started at such a high place
0:31:39that it's still perfectly fine.
0:31:41And so I feel like I will probably go Ultra again,
0:31:45but I do think that I can probably go
0:31:47on like a three or four year schedule at this point.
0:31:50- I think my favorite thing about the Apple Watch
0:31:52as a product category for Apple right now
0:31:55is that they kind of anticipate
0:31:57people aren't upgrading year to year.
0:31:59Although they are upgrading the actual Apple Watch itself
0:32:03year to year, and as you mentioned,
0:32:04the Ultra, it's getting upgraded,
0:32:06or just got an upgrade, finally.
0:32:08It's in black, shout out.
0:32:10I love that I went from the Apple Watch
0:32:12literally series zero to series five,
0:32:16and then I went from that to the eight,
0:32:17and now I'm just hanging out on the eight
0:32:19until I don't know when.
0:32:20I guess when this one's done.
0:32:22I just wear them until they're done.
0:32:24And I love that as a person who generally
0:32:27does upgrade a lot of my Apple stuff very frequently.
0:32:31It's a nice feeling that there's an entire piece
0:32:34of that ecosystem that I don't need to do every year.
0:32:37It's good. - Yeah, absolutely.
0:32:39Absolutely, and I think I got into the habit early on
0:32:43when the Apple Watch is relatively new
0:32:45of doing an annual upgrade,
0:32:47because there were some pretty big leaps and bounds
0:32:50in terms of what the software could do,
0:32:52what the battery life was like,
0:32:54the sensors that were being added,
0:32:56and we're already at a place where the Apple Watch
0:32:58is fairly mature, and so while these are nice upgrades,
0:33:01they're not revolutionary, so I'm totally fine
0:33:04with sticking around with the Ultra One for now.
0:33:07- Yeah.
0:33:08- I'm excited.
0:33:10I'm gonna be that person.
0:33:11I'm excited about the fact that you can use
0:33:12the new Apple Watch with a speaker to listen to stuff,
0:33:16not because I'm gonna bother people.
0:33:18- You're not gonna be that guy
0:33:19at the grocery store, are you? - No, no, no.
0:33:20- Who's listening to a podcast while he's buying bread?
0:33:24- So here's the rule, okay?
0:33:26When I'm around other people, AirPods,
0:33:30and usually one AirPod only at a time.
0:33:33I'm that person, like Steven.
0:33:36- Interesting. - I just wear,
0:33:37yeah, one AirPod in my left ear, usually.
0:33:39- I love that.
0:33:42- If I'm walking the dogs, and so it's during the day,
0:33:45usually in the afternoon, listening to podcasts
0:33:49with my Meta Ray-Ban glasses.
0:33:53So I'm just, I'm walking.
0:33:55Other people may pass in my vicinity,
0:33:58but it's just for a second.
0:33:59So if they hear, "Oh, that guy is listening
0:34:02"to stuff in English," whatever, I don't care.
0:34:05When I'm walking the dogs, I caught up on so many episodes
0:34:08of "Into the Aether" while walking the dogs
0:34:10with the Meta Ray-Bans, it's kinda ridiculous.
0:34:12But when I wake up in the morning,
0:34:16and I'm doing stuff around the house,
0:34:18like I'm doing chores around the house,
0:34:19or I'm cooking lunch or something,
0:34:22like I'm preparing things,
0:34:24I don't put on my Meta Ray-Bans immediately, right?
0:34:28Those are also like sunglasses, so it makes more sense.
0:34:32Like when I wake up in the morning,
0:34:33I grab my regular glasses that I always keep
0:34:36my Meta Ray-Ban stand.
0:34:37And I don't like the idea of wearing AirPods
0:34:42inside the home.
0:34:45I know that's probably a stupid thing,
0:34:46because literally millions of other people do.
0:34:49So the watch, having a speaker, is gonna be perfect for me,
0:34:54for those times when in the morning,
0:34:56I don't have my Meta Ray-Bans on,
0:34:59I am not wearing AirPods, I am doing stuff around the house,
0:35:02so I'm moving between rooms,
0:35:06and I just have the watch with me.
0:35:08I don't have to rely on the phone,
0:35:10I can just listen to podcasts on my wrist,
0:35:14as I'm doing the laundry, or brushing the dogs,
0:35:18like all those things, I just have it on my wrist.
0:35:21- Yeah, I can totally see that.
0:35:22- I'm not bothering anybody.
0:35:23Yeah? - Yeah, I can totally see that.
0:35:24I mean, I do that with my phone now,
0:35:25I just walk around with my phone
0:35:27when I'm doing chores around the house,
0:35:28and it would be easier if it was the watch, I think.
0:35:31- Yeah, yeah.
0:35:32- I'm using AirPods for that these days.
0:35:34AirPods have become my walking around the house thing,
0:35:37although now I'm obviously going back to the early 2000s
0:35:41and getting them caught on every single thing in my house,
0:35:44anytime I try and do anything,
0:35:45smashing them into the washing machine door and stuff.
0:35:49- Isn't it nice though, that you can just plug those in,
0:35:53and you don't have to care about anything else?
0:35:57- I love it, I love it so much,
0:35:58and also, because they're not noise canceling anything,
0:36:01I can still hear everything perfectly,
0:36:03although I do find, as a person who does commute,
0:36:06they are not conducive at all to my commute.
0:36:09I do need, I don't know if I need noise cancellation,
0:36:12but I do need a tighter seal, I think, when I'm commuting.
0:36:16I use the Beats Fit Pro right now,
0:36:18is kind of my main headphone when I'm walking around.
0:36:20They have the wing tips,
0:36:20so they stay locked in my ears, basically,
0:36:23but I usually don't have noise cancellation turned on.
0:36:25I just kind of, I don't even have transparency mode on.
0:36:27I just rock 'em normal.
0:36:29Can I go back quickly to both of you
0:36:33having the max phones, and ask you the big question,
0:36:36based on all the rumors about maybe
0:36:37the next couple years of Apple stuff?
0:36:39- Yes.
0:36:40- I, for about six months, had the Pixel Fold,
0:36:44and was obsessed with it.
0:36:45Where are you guys at on that?
0:36:48'Cause that serves both masters.
0:36:50You're getting the big display,
0:36:52and you're getting the pocketable form factor.
0:36:54I loved it to death, but I couldn't use it,
0:36:57because it had a bunch of issues right when it came out,
0:36:59where the battery was draining super fast,
0:37:01and I was about to go to Japan,
0:37:02and there's no world in which I'm gonna go to Japan,
0:37:05and wake up, and find out that the thing didn't charge
0:37:07because of a bug, and I'm just stuck, lost,
0:37:10wandering around in a place where I don't know the language.
0:37:12But where are you guys at on the folding iPhone?
0:37:14- There are two products I want Apple to make.
0:37:19Glasses, like the ones I'm wearing now,
0:37:22the metal ray lens, but made by Apple,
0:37:25and a foldable device.
0:37:28The dream for me is a folding iPhone
0:37:31that is a regular phone, and then you open it up,
0:37:34and it's like a small iPad.
0:37:35I am so jealous of the new generation
0:37:42of the Samsung foldables, but even the new Pixel,
0:37:46what's it called, Pixel 9 Pro Fold, Pixel Pro 9?
0:37:48- That is the full name, it's the Pixel 9 Pro Fold.
0:37:51- Yeah, that one.
0:37:52It looks so good, and the idea of a hybrid device from Apple,
0:37:57so with the ecosystem of the apps that I like,
0:38:00like all the indie apps that I love,
0:38:02with that design and the fact that it's like
0:38:06a phone on the outside, but then you open it up
0:38:08and you've got some basic multitasking going on,
0:38:11that's the dream for me.
0:38:12And as soon as Apple announces that sort of device,
0:38:15if they ever announce that sort of device,
0:38:17even if compared to a Pro Max, it's smaller,
0:38:21as a phone on the vertical side,
0:38:24I'm immediately upgrading to that device, no matter how,
0:38:29I mean, sure, if it costs $10,000, no,
0:38:33I am not gonna get it for $10,000, but for like,
0:38:35here's my hot take, for the price of a Vision Pro, yeah.
0:38:41- Wow. - I would do it.
0:38:41I would do it. - Wow.
0:38:42- I mean, I got a Vision Pro.
0:38:45- Yeah, you did. - And it's like
0:38:46in the closet behind me, because I never use it.
0:38:50- Yeah, that's unfortunate.
0:38:51- I would generally use a foldable phone.
0:38:54- I'm with you on the foldables.
0:38:55I do think that the form factor folded
0:38:58should be smaller than the Pro Max, though.
0:39:00I think it should be closer to just the iPhone Pro,
0:39:04because when you unfold it, you'll get a really nice size.
0:39:07It's pretty close to an iPad Mini,
0:39:10and that's really what I'd like,
0:39:11is basically to have an unfolded iPad Mini
0:39:14and a folded regular phone.
0:39:15Even if it's a little thicker, that's all right with me too.
0:39:18- You have me really wondering
0:39:19how much I would spend on this, Federico.
0:39:21I'm like, I almost don't want to admit it to myself
0:39:24or to the listeners of this podcast,
0:39:26what number floated into my head.
0:39:28But I think it's around what you're talking about.
0:39:31I think it's like Vision Pro.
0:39:33- If they're gonna do it, they're gonna pitch it
0:39:34as like this futuristic nobody's ever done it before.
0:39:37Spoilers, they have done it before.
0:39:39But it's coming from Apple, right?
0:39:41And it's gonna be the nicest looking foldable thing ever.
0:39:45And so like, I'm just gonna ask you.
0:39:47So assuming that we are staying below
0:39:50Mac Pro pricing territory, would you rather spend $3,500
0:39:55on a Vision Pro or a super premium,
0:39:58fancy looking foldable phone?
0:40:00I get the foldable phone immediately.
0:40:02- Yeah, phone, no question.
0:40:03- Yeah, that's pretty easy.
0:40:04That's an easy decision.
0:40:05- Especially if they're pairing it alongside
0:40:08something related to the iPad.
0:40:11If they're saying like, this is both an iPad and an iPhone.
0:40:13And that means hypothetically,
0:40:15like an M chip in there or something.
0:40:17- Oh my God.
0:40:18- I mean, I'll pay MacBook Pro prices for that.
0:40:22It's the most important device I own
0:40:24and the most important device I will always own.
0:40:26And I want to take that as one.
0:40:27- And also, they gotta make up for the fact
0:40:30that you're not gonna buy a phone
0:40:33and an iPad individually anymore.
0:40:35- Yes, exactly.
0:40:36- You're buying two.
0:40:38- That's why it's gonna be at least 2,500, you would think.
0:40:41- At least, because then it doesn't matter
0:40:43that you're not buying two Apple products.
0:40:45You're buying a really expensive single Apple product.
0:40:48Brandon, did you see the tri-fold Huawei device?
0:40:53(laughing)
0:40:55- That thing's wild.
0:40:57- So now actual hands-on videos have started coming out
0:41:01and it's real.
0:41:04Now durability is a big concern.
0:41:08- Big question.
0:41:09- The folding screen, when it's closed,
0:41:13it's gonna be outside.
0:41:14- It's on the outside, yeah.
0:41:16I think that that's a really bad decision.
0:41:18- It's all kinds of stuff is gonna get
0:41:22underneath that display and that plastic
0:41:24is gonna be exposed to the outside world.
0:41:27So durability there will be a concern.
0:41:30But just conceptually speaking though,
0:41:34a phone that transforms into a 10-inch tablet,
0:41:38mm, it's, you know, it's pretty hot.
0:41:40- With almost a cinema aspect ratio
0:41:43so you can watch movies the way they were intended
0:41:46to be seen?
0:41:46- Not like a phone.
0:41:47If Martin Scorsese were to look at what I do in bed
0:41:51with my phone watching movies on my Pro Max.
0:41:53- He would not be happy.
0:41:55- Not be happy, but here I am.
0:41:57Sorry, Martin, that's what I do.
0:41:59All right, well, so yeah, that's what we're getting
0:42:03this week and we'll see how we like these things.
0:42:08I'm sure we'll come up for a gaming angle
0:42:11for the new iPhones on MPC.
0:42:12- Oh, there's always a gaming angle.
0:42:15It's always a sad gaming angle.
0:42:16- Do we need to buy new controllers?
0:42:18Do we need to buy new controllers for the phones?
0:42:20- I doubt it.
0:42:21They're not that much bigger.
0:42:22- Right, okay.
0:42:23Oh yeah, they're not that much bigger.
0:42:24All right, cool.
0:42:25- The GameSir is still gonna work
0:42:27and that's the one that matters to me.
0:42:28The Galileo.
0:42:29- The Galileo, the G8, yes.
0:42:32- That's the one I'm using.
0:42:33- And the Razer Ultra.
0:42:34- The Razer Ultra.
0:42:36- John is a pro gamer and is a Razer Ultra.
0:42:38- I got the RGB going on.
0:42:40- Oh, God.
0:42:41- This episode of Connected is brought to you by Fitbaud.
0:42:48When you want to change your fitness level,
0:42:50it can be hard to know where to start.
0:42:52That's why we're pleased to let you know
0:42:54that Fitbaud is an easy and affordable way
0:42:56to build a fitness plan that's just for you.
0:42:59Everyone's fitness path is different,
0:43:01which is why Fitbaud uses data
0:43:03to make sure they customize things exactly to suit you.
0:43:06Adapting as you improve,
0:43:08so each workout will be challenging,
0:43:11pushing you to make the progress you want.
0:43:13Superior results are achieved when a workout program
0:43:17is tailored to your unique body, experience,
0:43:20environment, and goals,
0:43:22which are all stored in your Fitbaud gym profile.
0:43:25Fitbaud tracks your muscle recovery
0:43:27so you can avoid burnout and keep up your momentum.
0:43:30And it builds your best possible workout
0:43:32by combining AI with exercise science.
0:43:35They've analyzed billions of data points
0:43:38that have been fine-tuned by certified personal trainers.
0:43:41And you can make sure you're learning new movements
0:43:43the right way thanks to more than 1,000 demonstration videos.
0:43:46That's one of my favorite things about this app.
0:43:48Those demonstration videos are really, really helpful.
0:43:51Fitbaud tracks muscle fatigue and recovery
0:43:54to design a well-balanced workout routine,
0:43:57which means you're never going to get bored
0:43:58as the app mixes up your workouts with new exercises,
0:44:02rep schemes, supersets, and circuits.
0:44:05And all this is really easy to use
0:44:07thanks to the Fitbaud app.
0:44:09You can stay informed with tracking charts, weekly reports,
0:44:12and you can let your friends and family keep up with you
0:44:15through the use of sharing cards.
0:44:18Plus it integrates with the Apple Watch,
0:44:20WearOS smartwatches, and apps like Strava,
0:44:22Fitbit, and Apple Health.
0:44:24Personalized training of this quality can be expensive,
0:44:28but Fitbaud is just $12.99 a month, or $79.99 a year.
0:44:33And you can get 25% off your membership
0:44:36by signing up at fitbaud.me/connected.
0:44:40So go there now and get your customized fitness plan
0:44:42at fitbaud, F-I-T-B-O-D, fitbaud.me/connected.
0:44:47Our thanks to Fitbaud for their support of the show
0:44:52and of Relay.
0:44:52- All right, Federico.
0:44:56We have been beating around the bush
0:44:59this entire episode so far,
0:45:01because this of course was a very big week.
0:45:03Apple dropped, in kind of an unprecedented way,
0:45:07all of its OS updates on a single day on a Monday.
0:45:11And I think, I will, you know,
0:45:13I'm not gonna break my arm,
0:45:14but I'll pat ourselves on the back
0:45:15for kind of sensing that this was gonna happen
0:45:17all the way back in June, and kind of,
0:45:19and being ready for it.
0:45:21But we had a whole series of reviews out this week
0:45:24on Mac stories.
0:45:25The, you did iPhone and iPad OS 18,
0:45:29I did Mac OS Sequoia,
0:45:31Devin did Vision OS 2,
0:45:34and Jonathan did Watch OS 11.
0:45:37And I wanted to dig in a little bit with you
0:45:40to talk to you about your review this week,
0:45:43because it was a really different,
0:45:46a really different approach than we've had in past years.
0:45:48And you and I talked about this a little bit
0:45:50on app stories already.
0:45:53But, you know, we,
0:45:55the biggest thing, I think the thing people will notice
0:45:57the moment they open the page,
0:45:59is they'll say, instead of like some sort of motion graphics
0:46:02of realistic looking iPhones with screenshots on them,
0:46:05they see illustrated art.
0:46:08- Yeah, yeah.
0:46:09Brandon is actually responsible here.
0:46:12- He is, hello.
0:46:13- Yes, you.
0:46:15Well, so yeah,
0:46:17Brandon is the person we need to thank here,
0:46:22because it was Brandon who introduced us months ago
0:46:24to the incredible artist that is Scout Wilkinson.
0:46:28Scout did, we worked with Scout for the podcast artwork
0:46:33for "Comfort Zone," which is the other show
0:46:37that we introduced alongside MPC Mac stories back in May.
0:46:41And I loved working with Scout,
0:46:45the process, the back and forth,
0:46:47the ideas, the brainstorming, everything.
0:46:49The process was just fantastic.
0:46:51- Hire Scout.
0:46:52- Yes, hire Scout.
0:46:54And so when the time came when Apple announced iOS
0:46:59and Apple OS 18 at WWDC,
0:47:01and I saw Apple intelligence
0:47:02and the generative features of Apple intelligence,
0:47:07specifically those,
0:47:08like those are the kinds of AI features
0:47:12that I have a really strong stance on,
0:47:16and it wasn't sitting right with me.
0:47:19It was something that is pretty much antithetical
0:47:23to all the things I believe in,
0:47:24in terms of like creating stuff on the web,
0:47:27being creative on the web,
0:47:29and sharing your work on the internet with people.
0:47:32I find it very gross being able to generate images
0:47:37and replacing human input with an AI model,
0:47:40and I don't like it.
0:47:42And the whole thing was putting me in a bad mood in June,
0:47:47going into the summer,
0:47:48knowing that I had this massive project ahead of me.
0:47:52I didn't want to do it.
0:47:53I felt like I was stuck,
0:47:55because the whole community of Mac stories readers
0:47:58was waiting for me to work on my 10th annual review,
0:48:02and I was dreading the feeling.
0:48:05I didn't want to do it.
0:48:06And so I started thinking, well, I have to do it.
0:48:10We also have a sponsor lined up.
0:48:12I gotta do it, but how?
0:48:16And so I realized, instead of feeling down about it,
0:48:20I thought, you know what I'm gonna do?
0:48:21I'm gonna put a different spin on this thing,
0:48:24where Apple may, at the time,
0:48:27we still sort of thought that Apple Intelligence
0:48:29was gonna launch in September.
0:48:31They delayed the features later,
0:48:33but at the time it was gonna launch in September.
0:48:35And I thought, well, what I'm gonna do is,
0:48:37in the same OS that has the feature
0:48:39that lets you generate images,
0:48:41and that has the feature that lets you take a sketch
0:48:43in Apple Notes and turn it into a, quote unquote,
0:48:46"beautiful artwork" using AI,
0:48:49I am gonna do something different.
0:48:51I am gonna hire an actual artist, a real person,
0:48:54and I'm gonna ask them to create art for the review,
0:48:58to illustrate the review.
0:49:00And that was, just like using regular AirPods again,
0:49:05one of my best decisions this year,
0:49:08like working with Scout.
0:49:11- Scout and AirPods, there we go, that's a duo.
0:49:13- What a combo.
0:49:15She was better than the AirPods, I'll give you that.
0:49:19But just the whole process of working with her
0:49:24researching, coming up with ideas for the chapters,
0:49:29and with that process, with that back and forth,
0:49:33it also led me to this very different place
0:49:39for the conclusion of the story,
0:49:41where there is the usual recap
0:49:44and looking ahead at what's coming next,
0:49:47but it's more of this conclusion
0:49:49that sets the tone for what I think,
0:49:51regarding what's the role of Mac stories,
0:49:54and our approach to creators, right?
0:49:58Developers, designers, artists,
0:50:02what can we do as Mac stories to celebrate those people
0:50:08and to be useful to our readers
0:50:13with content, articles that are useful,
0:50:16but also at the same time celebrating creativity.
0:50:19And so I am very happy,
0:50:21I am very happy with that conclusion.
0:50:24Because it's the sort of conclusion
0:50:28that was the result of this three month process
0:50:31of working with an artist and working with,
0:50:34surrounding myself with people
0:50:36that helped me in this process.
0:50:38And it's a little blog post, the conclusion, basically,
0:50:43it's about 1,500 words,
0:50:46but it's the sort of thing where it doesn't matter
0:50:49if you disagree with me, because it's what I think,
0:50:53and when you believe strongly in what you think,
0:50:55people may disagree with you, people may ignore you,
0:50:57but you're still gonna feel good about what you think.
0:51:01It's like, if I say, "Oh, you know what?
0:51:03I like cheese."
0:51:05And you come to me and you say, "You know, you're wrong.
0:51:06Cheese sucks."
0:51:07And I'm like, "I don't care, I like it."
0:51:09And so when you have an opinion
0:51:10and you believe strongly in it, it doesn't matter.
0:51:13And so, yeah, the fun fact that I wanted to mention,
0:51:17not that Brandon is here,
0:51:20the idea for using a first-person perspective
0:51:24for the artwork,
0:51:25Scout was coming up with a bunch of different ideas.
0:51:30Initially, the direction was gonna be,
0:51:32"We're gonna feature this Apple Steve Jobs-like mini mascot,
0:51:37like this cute little guy with an apple head
0:51:41wearing a turtleneck, sort of like Steve Jobs."
0:51:44And it was gonna be in all the shots.
0:51:46But then we were also talking about,
0:51:49how do we convey this idea of like,
0:51:51this review usually helps people discover
0:51:54a bunch of features of iOS?
0:51:56And so we were sort of brainstorming this idea
0:51:59of an instruction manual.
0:52:00And Scout, at some point, she said,
0:52:03"Why don't we draw an actual like instructional manual?"
0:52:08And that sort of, that idea sparked something in my mind.
0:52:12And so I sent her screenshots of "Firewatch,"
0:52:16the video game.
0:52:18And I told her, "I don't know if you ever played 'Firewatch,'
0:52:20but what if we do something like in the game
0:52:23where when you need to open the map,
0:52:25you actually see the animation in first person
0:52:28with your hands reaching into your pocket
0:52:30and unfolding the map in front of your eyes?"
0:52:32And she loved it.
0:52:33And so that's how she came up with all the other shots
0:52:37in first person, including the one that is my favorite.
0:52:40There's a very meta shot of, in first person,
0:52:44of the iPad that Scout is drawing on.
0:52:49And if you look inside the iPad,
0:52:50there's Procreate with the images of my dogs
0:52:53that are featured in other images of the story.
0:52:55So yeah.
0:52:56- I love that.
0:52:57I love that so much.
0:52:58- That's the backstory working with Scout.
0:53:01And I'm so glad I did.
0:53:02You should hire Scout.
0:53:03She's incredible.
0:53:05- I love two things about this.
0:53:06First of all, and the silliest one of the two
0:53:10to get it out of the way,
0:53:11is that we can now trace the lineage of your iOS review
0:53:14all the way back to the success
0:53:17and then failure of Far Cry 2,
0:53:20because your review is inspired by Firewatch,
0:53:25which is made by Campo Santo.
0:53:28Campo Santo made up of the hosts
0:53:31of no longer existent video game podcast, Idle Thumbs,
0:53:35who were obsessed with Far Cry 2,
0:53:38which kind of revolutionized this idea
0:53:40of you never break first person.
0:53:42You are always in first person throughout the entire game.
0:53:44- Great game.
0:53:45Played it a couple months ago.
0:53:46- It's a great game.
0:53:46- Yes.
0:53:47- Great game.
0:53:48I love that.
0:53:49I love that we can now go back
0:53:51and say Clint Hocking in some way
0:53:53had some kind of influence on your iOS review.
0:53:55The other thing I want to mention,
0:53:56and this is more serious,
0:53:58it's a thing you talked about on App Stories
0:53:59and the thing you're touching on here,
0:54:00and it's centered around your conclusion specifically.
0:54:03I really appreciate your embracing of subjectivity.
0:54:07I think that that's a huge thing for me personally as well.
0:54:12I think over time what I've learned
0:54:14about the people who I like to read
0:54:16and the opinions I trust online
0:54:19are embracing the idea of being opinionated.
0:54:23I think there's this real fallacy to the idea
0:54:26that anyone can be objective really about anything.
0:54:28- Yes, oh my God.
0:54:29- The making of a person leading up to their decision
0:54:34to have an opinion about something
0:54:36influences that opinion and therefore is subjective.
0:54:40Even if you're trying to remove your own opinion from it,
0:54:43you are in fact imbuing it with a different opinion.
0:54:47So I feel like at the end of the day,
0:54:49the embracing of subjectivity is really important
0:54:52I think for most people who create.
0:54:54And I'm glad to see you doing that.
0:54:57As your friend and collaborator,
0:54:58I think that's a really exciting future
0:55:00for you to be going down.
0:55:02'Cause the people whose work I respect the most these days
0:55:05are the people who are not reviewing video games
0:55:09and just saying like graphics, 10 out of 10,
0:55:12sound, nine out of 10, fun factor, whatever out of 10.
0:55:16And then like not-- - This is my honest review.
0:55:18This is my honest-- - Yes, yes.
0:55:19Saying like, yes, this is my honest opinionated
0:55:23but objective review is like that.
0:55:25None of that is real. - Yeah.
0:55:27- None of that is real.
0:55:28I think we're seeing people start to approach
0:55:32tech journalism and film and video game criticism
0:55:37and music criticism with this idea of who I am
0:55:41and who I have been makes up how I feel about this thing.
0:55:44And I think that's a really powerful sentiment.
0:55:46And I think that also bleeds into your decision
0:55:49to work with more creatives across the board.
0:55:51People like Scout, which I think is a really smart decision.
0:55:54I think this idea of like,
0:55:56let's get as many minds as we can together
0:55:58because the collective influence will make something new
0:56:01is really powerful.
0:56:03So good work.
0:56:05- Thank you.
0:56:06Yeah. - I liked it.
0:56:07- Yeah, thank you. - It was fun to read.
0:56:09- Thank you.
0:56:10Yeah, that was also like,
0:56:11it was also part of it like trying to write from,
0:56:16and this is something that I,
0:56:18that I still learning how to do.
0:56:22When I started doing these IIS reviews, right,
0:56:2610 years ago, I like to think that I,
0:56:30I'm still young and I feel young.
0:56:32I'm 36, but I still feel very young from my age
0:56:36compared to other people around me.
0:56:37I think I look younger and I feel younger
0:56:40than some of them.
0:56:41But I was a younger person at the time, obviously.
0:56:46And I mean, let's face it, my role model at the time was,
0:56:51what I was telling myself was,
0:56:53oh, I wanna be the John Siracusa of IOS reviews.
0:56:58That was my goal, right?
0:56:59And I feel like I fell into this trap
0:57:04of trying to be as detailed and objective
0:57:09and cold maybe as possible.
0:57:14And I don't, and in looking back, I don't like it.
0:57:21I mean, obviously these reviews were successful,
0:57:24but I feel like they have remained successful
0:57:28because I was able to tone that down
0:57:30and progressively embrace who I am
0:57:35as a person with opinions and my stupid jokes,
0:57:40my silly references.
0:57:43And I just feel like it makes for a better creative output
0:57:47to fully embrace the person you are
0:57:49and the things you're into, even when,
0:57:52and especially when other people may think those are weird
0:57:56because the internet's a pretty big place
0:57:59for there to be other sickos like you
0:58:02and other weirdos like you
0:58:04who are gonna appreciate the strange things you may say
0:58:07and how you may be able to jump from one topic
0:58:11and a serious thing to a totally stupid, ridiculous
0:58:15kind of joke that maybe a 12-year-old would laugh at.
0:58:18But it doesn't matter.
0:58:19And so over the years, I have tried,
0:58:23and it seems to be working
0:58:25because people tell me this,
0:58:26and at some point I gotta believe what people say,
0:58:29it seems that it makes for this better balance
0:58:34of information but also with character.
0:58:38And that is a healthier,
0:58:42at the end of the day, it's a healthier thing for me to do
0:58:45for this sort of project.
0:58:47- I think it connects more with people, Federico.
0:58:49I mean, I've kind of been along for the ride
0:58:51for a lot of these reviews,
0:58:53and I can see it's good to be influenced
0:58:58or inspired by other people,
0:59:00but it's also easy to fall into a trap
0:59:03where that inspiration becomes imitation.
0:59:06And I think maybe that's kind of a little bit
0:59:08of what you're describing.
0:59:10And I think as you put more of you into these reviews,
0:59:14that's where you really, I think,
0:59:15not only teach people what these OSSs are about,
0:59:19but you also connect with them on a different level
0:59:21because there is a segment of people
0:59:26who really like that high level of detail
0:59:29and technical analytical analysis
0:59:32because after all, a lot of people who read Mac stories
0:59:34are like developers.
0:59:35People have that kind of technical mindset.
0:59:38But I think even they,
0:59:39even people coming from that background,
0:59:41often will connect more with the material
0:59:43when it's also got more of you
0:59:45and your personality in it too.
0:59:47- Yeah, and look, like also from a purely financial
0:59:52and economical perspective,
0:59:57I got so much competition these days,
1:00:00not anymore in websites.
1:00:02My biggest competition is in YouTube,
1:00:04and I have so many competitors doing, in fact,
1:00:09a much better job than me,
1:00:13listing 500 features.
1:00:18I've seen a three hour long video by Brandon Butch,
1:00:23I wanna say, we're gonna put a link in the show notes.
1:00:25Like people like them,
1:00:28they do such a better job than me
1:00:31at listing and documenting and visually showing you
1:00:35all the new things.
1:00:37So instead of competing with them,
1:00:40and there used to be a time when I could say,
1:00:43you know, all the features in this YouTube video
1:00:46are also mentioned in my review.
1:00:48But instead, I think there's more value
1:00:50in having something that is maybe,
1:00:52it maybe doesn't mention 500 features,
1:00:56and maybe it doesn't, you know,
1:00:58it's not as extensive as a documentary,
1:01:01like a mini movie about iOS 18, but it's fine.
1:01:04Because I think what I hope that I can bring to the table
1:01:08is a lot of historical context,
1:01:11because I've been doing this for a long time,
1:01:13and the perspective of someone who lives and breathes iOS
1:01:18and iPadOS, and has for the past 15 years,
1:01:23and I still like to have fun with it.
1:01:26And especially now, you know, working with other people,
1:01:30and it's sort of that feedback, right?
1:01:33That feedback look like I'm working with Scout
1:01:35and Scout mentioned, so you know,
1:01:36I've done this on the iPad using Procreate,
1:01:38and actually there's time lapses for each chapter.
1:01:42And then I had an idea of like,
1:01:44what can we do with these videos?
1:01:45And then I talked to James Thompson, shout out to James,
1:01:48the developer of Peacock and Dice by Peacock,
1:01:51two excellent apps.
1:01:52And James was able, you know, a different type of art form,
1:01:57James deals with code, but he was able to turn those videos
1:02:00into a screensaver on Mac OS.
1:02:02And so like, I think this approach
1:02:06of working with creative people around me,
1:02:09and surround, again, it's all about surrounding myself
1:02:13with like, people like John and Devon, who edit my reviews,
1:02:17Scout making the art, Silvia working on the eBooks,
1:02:21James working on this screensaver,
1:02:25like it's been an incredible process, and so invigorating.
1:02:29You know, just, it felt good for these past three months
1:02:34to work on this, and it never felt like a slog,
1:02:38is what I'm trying to say.
1:02:39And so yeah, those YouTube videos,
1:02:41they are so much better than this review,
1:02:43if all you care about are the list of the features.
1:02:47- Yeah.
1:02:49- Mine's a little different, with a little more opinion,
1:02:52a little more color, quite literally.
1:02:55I mean, go take a look at those illustrations,
1:02:56they're beautiful.
1:02:57And yeah, that's it.
1:02:59I, you know, ultimately, I'm happy.
1:03:03Like, I'm really, really happy.
1:03:05- Good.
1:03:06- Yeah.
1:03:07- Well, happy 10th anniversary on your review.
1:03:09- Thank you, thank you, thank you.
1:03:11Now, oh, come on.
1:03:13All right, enough about me.
1:03:18Next, we're gonna talk about this fun idea that I had.
1:03:23What if we had infinite power and infinite money at Apple,
1:03:29and we wanted to fix gaming at Apple?
1:03:32We're gonna talk about this after the break.
1:03:34This episode of Connected is made possible
1:03:39by our friends over at Backblaze.
1:03:41Backblaze are the folks looking after your digital data,
1:03:44with their unlimited computer backup for macOS and Windows
1:03:48for just $99 a year.
1:03:50So you can protect all of your data automatically
1:03:52without ever having to think about it.
1:03:55And it's not just for personal use.
1:03:56Backblaze is also great for businesses,
1:03:59where you can protect the whole team's data
1:04:01through a centrally managed admin console.
1:04:04That makes it easy to deploy across multiple workstations
1:04:07with both silent and link-based deployment options.
1:04:10And the enterprise control add-on
1:04:12includes granular access permissions, advanced SSO options,
1:04:16group management controls, and compliance support.
1:04:19You're in safe hands with Backblaze.
1:04:21They really know their stuff.
1:04:23That's why they're recommended by the New York Times,
1:04:25Inc. Magazine, Macworld, PCworld, LifeWire,
1:04:28Wire, TomGuides, 9to5Mac, and more.
1:04:33And you can access your backed up data
1:04:34from anywhere in the world using their web app
1:04:37or their iOS or Android apps.
1:04:39It's a super handy feature.
1:04:41I've been using Backblaze forever.
1:04:43It's on all of my machines.
1:04:45All of my data is safe and secure because of it.
1:04:48If something happens here at the pod cabin,
1:04:51I can go get my data.
1:04:53Backblaze offers restore by mail for refundable fee.
1:04:56A hard drive with all your data
1:04:57shipped directly to your door.
1:04:59Or like I said, you can use the website
1:05:01or their apps as well.
1:05:03Visit backblaze.com/connected
1:05:05so they know where you came from
1:05:07and continue their support of the show.
1:05:09Backblaze has restored over 55 billion files
1:05:13for their customers.
1:05:14So don't be that person who forgot to back up
1:05:17their important files.
1:05:19Receive a fully featured, no risk, free trial
1:05:22at backblaze.com/connected.
1:05:25Go there, have a play around,
1:05:27and start protecting yourself from a data disaster.
1:05:30Don't put it off, start today.
1:05:33Our thanks to Backblaze for their support of the show
1:05:35and all of Relay.
1:05:36- All right, so as I was saying,
1:05:40we wanted to come out, given that we are the MPC crew,
1:05:43we wanted to come out with a gaming angle
1:05:46for at least one of the topics on connected.
1:05:49And I was thinking about like,
1:05:50oh, do you want to talk about controllers?
1:05:52But no, we talked about controllers before.
1:05:54You don't want to talk about handhelds
1:05:56because obviously-- - Don't get me started
1:05:57with controllers, Federico.
1:05:58- No, exactly, also John has all the controllers.
1:06:01Like, it's gonna become a monologue
1:06:04and we don't want to have a monologue.
1:06:06I thought, okay, we always talk about this in private.
1:06:10So what if we had infinite power,
1:06:14infinite money to spend at Apple?
1:06:16It's not our money, it's Tim Cook's money.
1:06:19And so one day we wake up and we have been blessed
1:06:23with the power of fixing, improving gaming at Apple
1:06:28with no questions asked, just infinite resources.
1:06:32What do we do?
1:06:34Brandon, your app first.
1:06:36- Yeah, I think it's twofold.
1:06:38Number one is invest some more resources
1:06:43in your Proton compatibility layer-like thing
1:06:46with the Apple Boarding Toolkit.
1:06:48- Yeah, that was also mine, yeah.
1:06:50- Yeah, that's like the obvious slam dunk here.
1:06:52I've been using Whiskey a lot on my Mac studio.
1:06:54- Oh, you have?
1:06:55Okay. - Oh, yeah.
1:06:57And it's weird what games it works for
1:07:00and which ones it doesn't work for.
1:07:01Like if you want to play Elden Ring on your Mac,
1:07:03you can use Whiskey to play it.
1:07:05If you want to play Fields of,
1:07:10oh man, I just forgot the name,
1:07:11Fields of Mystria, yes, the new great magic-based farm sim
1:07:16that's like Echoes of Stardew Valley does not even boot.
1:07:20- Really? - Really?
1:07:21That's weird.
1:07:22It's really just very hit or miss.
1:07:23So my experience has been like,
1:07:26I'm interested in playing this game.
1:07:27I'll download it, see if it works.
1:07:29Maybe it works, maybe it'll work a little bit.
1:07:31Maybe it won't work at all and see how that functions.
1:07:35But I feel like they are so close
1:07:37to just having the Steam thing.
1:07:40My big question about that is what happens
1:07:43to the App Store?
1:07:44Like, will you need to purchase all of your games
1:07:47through the Apple App Store?
1:07:49And will developers be cool with that?
1:07:52Versus something like allowing, I don't know,
1:07:55developers to include something like the porting toolkit
1:07:58through Steam so you could just download all your games
1:08:01through Steam as you were able to before,
1:08:03but this time it's using a compatibility layer
1:08:05to make it run on Apple hardware.
1:08:07That feels like a little in the weeds.
1:08:10I feel like Apple's gonna want to make it
1:08:11like as easy quote unquote as possible,
1:08:13and by doing so, end up making it too hard for developers.
1:08:16That's one feeling.
1:08:18The other feeling that I have about this,
1:08:20really at the end of the day is,
1:08:23and I know you're gonna talk about this, John,
1:08:25so sorry to steal your thunder a little bit.
1:08:26It's a taste thing.
1:08:28It's like, it's totally a taste thing.
1:08:30And the thing that's really bouncing around my head
1:08:33thinking about this is the entirety of Annapurna Interactive
1:08:37all just walked out like literally this week.
1:08:4025 people.
1:08:41Yes, all just bailed.
1:08:44They were working on spinning off Annapurna Interactive
1:08:47into its own entity outside of Annapurna.
1:08:50Talks fell through, didn't go very well.
1:08:53You have 25 of the best taste makers
1:08:56in the industry right now who made,
1:08:59and it should be noted and published,
1:09:01some incredible games for Apple Arcade's launch,
1:09:05and some of the sustainment there,
1:09:07who are now free agents looking to form a new entity.
1:09:12Yep.
1:09:13And it's not even just Arcade,
1:09:14because Stray, for instance, is an Annapurna game,
1:09:17and Stray's on the Mac too.
1:09:19Yeah, I mean, this is, the taste thing to me
1:09:22is the big question, because part of me wants to say
1:09:25I kind of quarrel with this premise from the get-go,
1:09:28which is you can't really buy taste.
1:09:30You can't, you know, you can't, you can't,
1:09:32money's not gonna fix taste, but it can hire people.
1:09:34You can hire people with taste, yes.
1:09:36Yes, you can, you can.
1:09:37And here's the thing that, to me,
1:09:39the greatest mystery of all is that Apple has spent
1:09:42an extraordinary amount of money
1:09:45and hired a lot of really talented people
1:09:48to develop movies and TV shows,
1:09:51and they can't do something similar with video games
1:09:53for the life of them.
1:09:55And that I don't really get.
1:09:56And I think it comes down to treating game developers
1:10:00like app developers, and I don't think
1:10:02that that's the right approach.
1:10:04You need to be treated more like movie creators,
1:10:07TV show creators, that sort of thing.
1:10:10Yeah, I feel like almost institutionally,
1:10:14there's this idea at Apple that games are not an art form,
1:10:19and I don't wanna have the discussion,
1:10:22"Ooh, are video games art?"
1:10:23I mean, I feel like we're past that, from my perspective.
1:10:27Obviously, they are.
1:10:28But I feel like institutionally at Apple,
1:10:31they think of games as just software,
1:10:34and yes, it is software.
1:10:37- So are movies these days, really,
1:10:39when you think about it, right?
1:10:40- Right, exactly, especially with Dolby Atmos
1:10:43and all the fancy audio and video stuff.
1:10:45But like, Elden Ring or a, I don't know,
1:10:50a Final Fantasy VII are fundamentally different
1:10:53from a calendar app and a task manager.
1:10:57Like, something, on the one hand,
1:11:00you have entertainment and an art form,
1:11:03and on the other, you have a productivity tool, a utility.
1:11:08It would be like comparing a hammer to a painting.
1:11:13Like, yes, both are objects,
1:11:16and I guess this is the problem with, right?
1:11:19Because this is the problem with Apple.
1:11:20They're thinking of both forms as digital objects, right?
1:11:25It's like saying, "Oh, a hammer, a hammer, it's an object.
1:11:29A painting, yes, it's an object on the wall.
1:11:31Both are physical objects."
1:11:33Like, they're fundamentally different.
1:11:35- I think that is the core of the issue would be,
1:11:39first off, like, before the money
1:11:41and before the infinite power,
1:11:43you need to institutionally understand
1:11:45that you're dealing with something fundamentally different
1:11:48from a calendar app or Snapchat or whatever.
1:11:53Like, there's apps and there's games,
1:11:54and those are two separate things.
1:11:56And dealing with the creators
1:11:59of those two different types of software
1:12:04requires two different approaches.
1:12:06- Yeah, I agree.
1:12:07I think one of the traps that Apple fell into
1:12:09is they got into gaming by mistake.
1:12:12I think that once they had the free downloads
1:12:16with in-app purchases,
1:12:17they stumbled into a business model
1:12:20of kind of the candy crushes of the world,
1:12:22and it has made them an extraordinary amount of money
1:12:27that they don't really understand
1:12:28how they ended up where they are,
1:12:31but they don't want to screw that up in some way.
1:12:35And I also feel like it's going too far
1:12:39to say that there's no taste in Apple,
1:12:41because there are good games on the App Store,
1:12:43on the Mac App Store.
1:12:44I think the balance is off.
1:12:46I think that the problem is is that there's one person
1:12:49in the corner advocating for artistic indie games,
1:12:53and they lose more often than they don't.
1:12:55- Yeah, and I feel like we had
1:13:01high hopes for Apple Arcade to sort of become
1:13:05the symbol of that balance of like,
1:13:08yeah, you can have the easy to play,
1:13:12family-friendly games, but also it can be a place
1:13:16for the more niche indie,
1:13:21artsy games that the press loves to talk about
1:13:26and the sort of games that we knew are words, right?
1:13:31But the balance has quickly started to feel off
1:13:36in Apple Arcade to the point where Netflix
1:13:39is actually doing a better job, maybe, with that balance.
1:13:42Like, yeah, they have the games for, you know,
1:13:45what's the TV show that also has a game for Netflix?
1:13:50Like the--
1:13:52- They have a Stranger Things game on there.
1:13:54- They have the video game tie-ins for--
1:13:55- They have a lot of dating game type.
1:13:57- Lot of dating games.
1:13:57- Like Love Island, I think, and stuff like that.
1:13:59- Yeah, yeah, but also they are cutting deals
1:14:03with developers of actually, like,
1:14:07I don't wanna, serious maybe doesn't quite describe it,
1:14:10but like the sort of indie games that, you know,
1:14:13are more, are traditionally covered
1:14:16in mainstream video game press
1:14:19and the sort of games that you see at the game awards
1:14:21and the win awards, you know, around the world.
1:14:24- The people making the decisions over at Netflix games are,
1:14:27I mean, they have taste coming out of every pore.
1:14:32Like having immortality available on Netflix,
1:14:36that is, it was, you know, it was a big deal.
1:14:38Video game got nominated for some game awards stuff,
1:14:41but by all accounts, like not a huge, huge, huge video game,
1:14:46but the choice to have that thing ported to mobile
1:14:49was incredible.
1:14:50Same thing with like Into the Breach.
1:14:52The fact that Netflix is the reason
1:14:53we have Into the Breach on mobile,
1:14:56I could not thank them more vocally for that
1:14:59'cause that is one of the best mobile games
1:15:01I think ever made.
1:15:02And I remember thinking that when it came out on Switch,
1:15:04like, man, I wish this was on my phone
1:15:06and Netflix made that happen.
1:15:07And I feel like Apple should be making that happen.
1:15:10To launch with something like the new RPG
1:15:14by the creator of Final Fantasy,
1:15:16who is looking back on his entire career
1:15:18and deciding to make one last magnum opus
1:15:22and now to be in a place where I'm like,
1:15:25you know, I'm excited that there's a new retro bowl out,
1:15:28but I was having enough fun with the original retro bowl.
1:15:32- Yeah.
1:15:34Here's a question for you guys.
1:15:36What do you think about the push into the AAA space
1:15:40that Apple has seemed to be really pushing at its events?
1:15:43Because it seems to me that to kind of get this house
1:15:47in order, if we're spending Apple's money,
1:15:49I think they ought to be starting with the kind of things
1:15:52that Netflix is doing first,
1:15:54because we know those kinds of games typically can run
1:15:57a lot better on an iPhone or a Mac or an iPad,
1:16:01whereas they're really struggling
1:16:02with some of this AAA stuff,
1:16:04whether it's, you know, Assassin's Creed
1:16:06or Death Stranding or some of the other things.
1:16:10I know I just played Frostpunk 2,
1:16:14which is out on Steam.
1:16:17And I haven't played it a lot yet.
1:16:18I did fire it up on my Mac on a very high-end MacBook Pro,
1:16:22and it really struggled to get over 20, 25 frames per second.
1:16:27I mean, not to get really too deep in the weeds
1:16:30on things like frames per second,
1:16:32but the fans spun up immediately, got really hot,
1:16:36and the battery just started dropping precipitously.
1:16:38I mean, it was having a hard time.
1:16:40And I just don't think that Apple Silicon
1:16:42is really quite ready yet for AAA-type titles.
1:16:46- Yeah, I mean, we've seen some,
1:16:50I think rumored, not confirmed numbers, right,
1:16:53from Capcom's Resident Evil endeavors,
1:16:56some pretty small numbers of attach rate
1:17:00when it comes to those games having sell-through.
1:17:03And that's a bummer.
1:17:05I think one of the big things here that is worth noting,
1:17:09and this is true, I think,
1:17:10of pretty much any endeavor like this,
1:17:13is it's all about time.
1:17:16Like, you need to continue doing it,
1:17:17just because the new Assassin's Creed didn't sell well
1:17:22doesn't mean, okay, we tried that,
1:17:23and now we move on to the next thing.
1:17:25You need to make a continued concerted effort
1:17:27to court these developers
1:17:28and give them enough visibility
1:17:33into the fact that this stuff is available on Apple devices
1:17:36to continue to push against the now two-decade-old narrative
1:17:41that you can't play games on Apple hardware.
1:17:45Like, it's been going for so long at this point
1:17:48that the only thing that you can do
1:17:50to combat the time that it took
1:17:52to build that view in people's heads
1:17:55is reverse the flow of time
1:17:58by continuing to push back against it.
1:17:59And I would like that to be a world in which we live.
1:18:05I would like a world in which the next version
1:18:08of the Apple TV or something
1:18:10allowed you to play that stuff as well.
1:18:14I think it's all right there.
1:18:17This is the big frustration point for me, at least,
1:18:19is, and I don't know how you two feel about it,
1:18:22it feels like it's right there for the taking.
1:18:24Like, they are so close to having a world
1:18:28in which Apple is like a serious other competitor
1:18:32against even Xbox and PlayStation if they want to be,
1:18:36and it's just like somebody internally there
1:18:40doesn't want to or doesn't know how to just reach out
1:18:45and grab it, you know?
1:18:46- Yeah, yeah, I agree.
1:18:48I mean, it's to the point now where even though
1:18:49you can do streaming game services on iOS and iPadOS,
1:18:54no one's doing it because I think that those bridges
1:18:57have been kind of burned with the old rules on the App Store
1:19:02and I could see a world where, yeah,
1:19:04you could play GeForce Now on the Apple TV,
1:19:07maybe you would get Xbox streaming on there,
1:19:10Apple could do its own thing.
1:19:12I would love Apple to make a controller.
1:19:14I think a lot of the technologies that are in things
1:19:16like the AirPods would make for an amazing game controller.
1:19:20You know, instead, it's very un-Apple-like
1:19:22when you think about it.
1:19:24I mean, I'd give them credit for the deep support
1:19:26for the DualSense and the Xbox controller,
1:19:29but really, that's not a very Apple-like thing to do,
1:19:33to be relying on third parties for that important
1:19:35input device for gaming on the Mac or on the Apple TV.
1:19:39- Yeah.
1:19:41I feel like, so the big thing for me was gonna be
1:19:47if I had infinite money and power at Apple,
1:19:50I would build, and this is something that Brandon said,
1:19:53I would build something like Proton.
1:19:55If there's a company that I would trust to know
1:19:58how to build a translation API,
1:20:03you know, I mean, look at Apple and their history,
1:20:06what they've done with Rosetta,
1:20:08with the intro transition, what they have done,
1:20:11what they have done, once again,
1:20:12with the transition to Apple Silicon.
1:20:14This is a company that has, over the years,
1:20:16historically built multiple translation layers
1:20:20to make sure that their platforms could continue
1:20:23working for users, and they have shown some signs of that
1:20:28with the, what's it called, the game porting toolkit.
1:20:31- Yeah, yes.
1:20:32- But like, and something like Proton,
1:20:35which is a very low level, sort of this,
1:20:37Proton, for those unaware, it's what the Steam Deck uses,
1:20:39for example, to let you play all sorts of PC games
1:20:42on a Linux-based machine, and it's a collaboration
1:20:45between Valve and Code Weavers, I wanna say,
1:20:49to basically take Wine, which is this piece of software
1:20:52that translates some low-level Windows APIs,
1:20:55like DirectX and Direct3D, to Vulkan-based APIs on Linux.
1:21:00And so, an Apple version of that, where you have Mac OS,
1:21:05or even just like any Apple platform,
1:21:08becoming capable of translating Windows APIs,
1:21:11because let's face it, developers are gonna build games
1:21:15on Windows, it's their biggest addressable market,
1:21:18and Apple needs to start from that recognition, right?
1:21:21They're not gonna build Mac-native games,
1:21:24but if Apple could only build the equivalent of Proton
1:21:29for Apple devices, that would immediately,
1:21:33and work with Valve, obviously, to get that going,
1:21:36and I wouldn't, I don't think Valve would be against it,
1:21:41because yes, they have the Steam Deck,
1:21:44but at the end of the day, they're running a store,
1:21:46and the more copies they can sell--
1:21:48- Yep, that's where they're making the money.
1:21:49- And the more money they can make off of commissions,
1:21:51I have a feeling they're gonna be happy,
1:21:53which is why they're already teaming up
1:21:55with third-party manufacturers to build native
1:21:59Steam Deck alternatives, they're just,
1:22:01yeah, you won't buy a Steam Deck,
1:22:03but you're still gonna use Steam,
1:22:05and you're still gonna buy those games on Steam,
1:22:08and so imagine if I had infinite money cutting a deal
1:22:11with Valve and working on an Apple version of Proton,
1:22:15and getting the entire Steam library over time running
1:22:19on Apple devices, that's the dream,
1:22:22and at the same time, having a cultural change,
1:22:27where you have a service like Apple Arcade,
1:22:30where the mobile-first games have a much better balance,
1:22:33something more akin to Netflix games, for example,
1:22:37having that two-pronged approach of like,
1:22:40there's the desktop gaming, and there's also a better,
1:22:43more balanced take on Apple Arcade for families,
1:22:47and for people who wanna buy iOS and iPadOS originals
1:22:52in Apple Arcade, that's the dream for me.
1:22:55- What would you think, Federico,
1:22:57of Apple buying a publisher?
1:23:00Bringing Annapurna in-house, basically,
1:23:02having a group like that.
1:23:03- I thought about that.
1:23:04I also thought about, like, should Apple be a publisher?
1:23:07- That's what I mean, yeah.
1:23:09- And I don't know, given the circumstances, right,
1:23:13and given the developer relations now,
1:23:16and the stories that we have seen
1:23:18from developers dealing with Apple Arcade,
1:23:21seems like a scary prospect, but again,
1:23:25there needs to be a cultural change, right?
1:23:27- Right, right.
1:23:28- And the thing is, why would Apple do it, right?
1:23:34- They did it for movies, right?
1:23:35- They did it for movies, and it's not making them
1:23:39a huge amount of money.
1:23:40- Yes, but it supports the hardware sales.
1:23:42If you have stuff that can push the hardware,
1:23:44then you can sell more hardware.
1:23:47- I also think, in some ways, and I know that, you know,
1:23:50at the end of the day, it's all about
1:23:52how much money they're bringing in,
1:23:53but I do think there is a little bit of long-term thinking
1:23:55when it comes to Apple TV, specifically,
1:23:57where them being able to build themselves up
1:23:59as a reputable place to see the best television available,
1:24:04you know, now that HBO has become what it has,
1:24:08I think there's a huge value in continuing
1:24:12to pump out great television over time,
1:24:16because eventually, that will, again,
1:24:19push through to hardware sales, right?
1:24:22- And then you've got a catalog,
1:24:23and that's really what it's, you know,
1:24:24that's where it started talking about,
1:24:25which is having a long-term view of this stuff,
1:24:27which is building up a catalog, and right now,
1:24:29it kind of feels like a lot of Apple Arcade stuff.
1:24:32It comes on to great fanfare, it sticks around for a while,
1:24:35but then it leaves, 'cause an awful lot of games have left
1:24:38and either gone back to the paid app store
1:24:40or are available on other platforms now.
1:24:43- I don't know if this is true about Apple,
1:24:45but I know that there's been a lot of reporting
1:24:47to kind of confirm this about what it's like
1:24:50working internally, at least at Google,
1:24:52where there's a lot of, as you were saying, fanfare
1:24:56when you release a product,
1:24:58and getting a product through to release
1:25:01is the thing that gets you promoted in-house
1:25:03and then moved on to another product,
1:25:05but if you are part of the, like, sustainment crew
1:25:07that gets left behind to continue working on a thing
1:25:10after it's launched, you kind of get no ribbons
1:25:12for that whatsoever, and I'm curious
1:25:15if there's something similar at Apple,
1:25:17if that's a similar internal vibe.
1:25:20It may be, it may not be,
1:25:22but with the way Apple Arcade was introduced
1:25:25to great fanfare and then totally fell off so quickly,
1:25:28I'm concerned that it's more of like
1:25:32an internal culture thing than anything else.
1:25:35- Could be.
1:25:37Well, I think we did it.
1:25:41Not only did we fix gaming at Apple,
1:25:43but we also did a successful episode.
1:25:46We did, but we also did a successful episode
1:25:49of "Connected" with this new lineup.
1:25:51- Well done, well done, team.
1:25:53- Well done, well done, good job,
1:25:55and, you know, we were successful.
1:25:58I'm gonna try and wrap everything up.
1:26:02This was episode 519.
1:26:04I wanna thank our sponsors again.
1:26:06Those were NetSuit, Feedbod, and Backblaze.
1:26:10Go check out the links in the show notes
1:26:14for Relay's fundraising for St. Jude
1:26:17with the upcoming podcastathon on Friday, September 20th.
1:26:21It's gonna be a 12-hour livestream
1:26:24featuring Mike and Steven
1:26:26and a selection of other Relay hosts and friends
1:26:28doing crazy things and doing it for the kids
1:26:31because cancer for kids sucks.
1:26:33And so if you can, you know, donate,
1:26:36go check out the links, make a donation,
1:26:38big or small, it doesn't matter.
1:26:39Obviously the bigger it is, the better, you know?
1:26:41I mean, let's face it, you know, more money is better,
1:26:44but, you know, any amount helps.
1:26:46And you can go to stjude.org/relay to do so.
1:26:49I wanna thank Brandon for joining us
1:26:54on this special episode of "Connected."
1:26:56- I wanna thank you also.
1:26:58- Well, you're welcome.
1:27:00You can find Brandon, you can find Brandon
1:27:04in a bunch of places.
1:27:05First off, you can find Brandon at Wavelengths.Online,
1:27:09this rejuvenated blog and YouTube channel
1:27:14and video series/podcast that I absolutely love.
1:27:20- Thank you.
1:27:21- Your video on the PS5 Pro is really good.
1:27:25- Oh, I love the Nintendo predictions one too.
1:27:27- I love the Nintendo Switch predictions video,
1:27:31which we're gonna talk about at some point.
1:27:33But yeah, Wavelengths.Online.
1:27:35You can also find Brandon podcasting into the aider.
1:27:39That's into the cast.online.
1:27:41As you can see, Brandon is very online in a lot of places.
1:27:45- It's one of our people.
1:27:47- One of our people.
1:27:48Into the other excellent video game show.
1:27:50It's a low key video game podcast.
1:27:52It is my favorite, personally speaking.
1:27:56And you can also find Brandon with the two of us,
1:27:59actually at MPC.
1:28:01That's on Mac Stories.
1:28:02Just go to macstories.net/mpc.
1:28:05And that's where we talk about how we spend our money
1:28:07on handhelds and portable consoles and portable devices.
1:28:11And Brandon is also on Threads and Mastodon.
1:28:13And there's gonna be links in the show notes
1:28:15because I cannot be bothered to repeat the username.
1:28:17Just click the link and you can find the profile.
1:28:20- Click the linky.
1:28:22- Yeah, links are good.
1:28:23Hyperlinks are a nice piece of technology.
1:28:26You can find Jon in also a bunch of places.
1:28:30Jon runs Mac Stories with me.
1:28:32App Stories, we do Unwind.
1:28:36Jon is also very much online as a person.
1:28:39You can find Jon on Threads and Mastodon.
1:28:42You know Jon, you know, so I don't think--
1:28:44- I'm hanging around.
1:28:45You don't need to explain me too much.
1:28:46- He's always around.
1:28:47I don't need to explain Jon.
1:28:48I also don't need to explain me.
1:28:50I'm always me.
1:28:51I've always been me.
1:28:52- You've always been teaching.
1:28:53- Go check out the iOS and iPadOS 18 review if you want.
1:28:57There's a bunch of bonus features that you can pay for,
1:29:00which I'd love you to check out.
1:29:01Like I mentioned, the illustrations from Scout
1:29:03are available as wallpapers, which look glorious.
1:29:07And you can also get them as a screensaver on your Mac
1:29:10if you're a Mac person.
1:29:11I'm not a Mac person, but I installed the screensavers.
1:29:14And so whenever my Mac is connected, after a while,
1:29:16it just boops and goes into the screensaver
1:29:18with the time lapse.
1:29:19It's very nice looking.
1:29:20Do I need to thank anybody else?
1:29:22Well, I guess we need to thank Mike and Steven,
1:29:24even though they're not here, for gifting us connected.
1:29:29And that's it for this week's episode.
1:29:33It's the first time in 10 years that I've done this show
1:29:36that I have done the outro.
1:29:38So, you know, and also if you want to get
1:29:42a longer ad-free version of this show
1:29:44that has a pro segment before it,
1:29:48and that typically people can listen to live also,
1:29:51but not in this case, you can get Connected Pro
1:29:54at getconnectedpro.co, I believe is the URL.
1:29:57- This week we talked about our superpowers.
1:29:59So that's a very good one to listen to.
1:30:01- Oh, yes, we talked about our superpowers
1:30:04and Jon as a weird one.
1:30:06- Of course I do.
1:30:08(laughing)
1:30:09- So that being said, say goodbye, Brandon.
1:30:11- Yours is just creepy.
1:30:13- No, mine is not creepy, okay?
1:30:14No, it's not creepy.
1:30:16- It's just adjacent to what soldiers did in World War I.
1:30:20- There we go.
1:30:21- That being said, say goodbye, Brandon.
1:30:25- Goodbye, Brandon.
1:30:27- Say goodbye, Jon.
1:30:28- Goodbye.
1:30:29Are you there too?