00:00:00 ◼ ► I feel like we need an introduction. First time on the show, Tyler Stallman. Welcome. You tossed
00:00:05 ◼ ► out the idea of coming on a show, and I know that I wanted somebody specifically to talk iPhone 16
00:00:11 ◼ ► camera. Here you are. Tell the audience for people who aren't familiar with you, what's your
00:00:16 ◼ ► background? What do you do? I think I'm pretty well qualified for it. I mean, my whole job background
00:00:20 ◼ ► was starting in stock photography at Getty Images and iStock Photo, and that turned into shooting
00:00:27 ◼ ► and talking about it on social media. So half of my life is my wife and I have a photo video
00:00:32 ◼ ► production company. It's just like commercial work, sort of traditional. We go in there and
00:00:36 ◼ ► get pictures of people smiling so you can sell your product. And then the other half is social
00:00:42 ◼ ► media. And so part of that is shooting for my wife, which is a little more influencer lifestyle
00:00:46 ◼ ► side. And then my stuff is more tech and creative production. So I kind of use YouTube and my
00:00:53 ◼ ► podcast to talk about how we do the professional side of our production, and that's been a pretty
00:00:58 ◼ ► good blend. And then what fits best for today is that my YouTube career has sort of been built off
00:01:04 ◼ ► of having successful camera-specific iPhone reviews every year. I'm not really reviewing
00:01:09 ◼ ► the whole phone, I'm just pushing the camera as hard as I can, using it for work, going into
00:01:14 ◼ ► detail on every feature. Obviously, Austin Mann's been doing this for a long time with his articles,
00:01:19 ◼ ► and I'm doing the video version of that. And also, Sebastian, there's a few of us that dig in deep,
00:01:24 ◼ ► but I try to go as hard as I can. Right, Sebastian DeWitt of Halide, or Luxe Camera is the company,
00:01:30 ◼ ► but makers of Halide and now Kino. I believe it's Kino. Is it Kino or Kino? Yeah, it is Kino,
00:01:35 ◼ ► yeah, which I've worked with them on a little bit. There's a preset in there with my name on it.
00:01:40 ◼ ► Yes, there is. We'll get to that. But this is why I feel like you really are in the sweet spot to
00:01:47 ◼ ► talk about this. And you've even addressed one of my questions. Are you more a professional working
00:01:54 ◼ ► photographer who does social on the side, or are you more of a social media person who also does
00:02:00 ◼ ► commercial stuff on the side, and it sounds like it's sort of 50/50? Yeah, it depends on the season.
00:02:05 ◼ ► Like the last few weeks was like commercial. It's kind of horrible because the iPhone's coming out,
00:02:08 ◼ ► which is my big social season. That's like when my content gets the most views, but our commercial
00:02:13 ◼ ► work just picked up like crazy, and I kind of had to choose between the two. So it depends what's
00:02:17 ◼ ► going on at the moment, but we've always just tried to give both as much attention as we can.
00:02:22 ◼ ► All right. I will, I promise, link in the show note, you have two new videos. The one is your
00:02:32 ◼ ► what's on your iPhone, sort of a tools and settings type thing. And so those links will
00:02:38 ◼ ► definitely be in the show notes. I sort of actually have an outline here, which is unusual
00:02:44 ◼ ► for me for the show. And I thought, let's talk camera control first, because it's the one new
00:02:52 ◼ ► thing in the iPhone 16 that is true for, it's A, it's true for all, it's there in all iPhone 16
00:02:58 ◼ ► models, which I think is awesome. And it's the one new thing that I think is applicable to everybody,
00:03:12 ◼ ► And you and your review brought up something that I kind of feel the same way about both
00:03:26 ◼ ► Well, first I'll pat myself on the back a little for that last year in my iPhone 15 review,
00:03:32 ◼ ► I was talking about the action button and I was like, the placement doesn't help with photography.
00:03:36 ◼ ► I've been using it to launch my camera, but we need a button here. And I kind of pointed
00:03:40 ◼ ► to where it's going. I should be the most excited about camera control. Like having an extra camera
00:03:45 ◼ ► feature that's hardware and dedicated to photography and video is a big deal to me. But
00:03:50 ◼ ► I did find in the end, I mean, quickly within a day, it was way too finicky. I had to turn
00:03:57 ◼ ► off the half press, the soft touch features. I mean, really trying to make it work for myself.
00:04:03 ◼ ► I want to do this. I would end up completely changing a setting a few times a day. It just
00:04:08 ◼ ► kept happening. And like I was saying, we were actually doing client work during this, so I can't
00:04:13 ◼ ► ruin it. I'll be in trouble if I've suddenly turned the exposure way down in the middle of
00:04:17 ◼ ► the shot or switched the tone profile or whatever it is. I need to just keep my settings the way
00:04:22 ◼ ► they are. And, um, yeah, unfortunately I just had to turn off those additional controls and
00:04:28 ◼ ► they're beautiful. Like they seem great, but it wasn't working. There's a shot in your video
00:04:33 ◼ ► while you're talking about this and you're holding the phone in your hand in your right hand. So the
00:04:40 ◼ ► media in, I have this thing over the side. Yeah. Your Palm is touching it because you're holding
00:04:46 ◼ ► it in tall screen orientation and you're talking about it. And while you're talking about it,
00:04:50 ◼ ► your Palm actually changed the current setting. Exactly. It like moved the exposure down two
00:05:05 ◼ ► It was not once or twice. Otherwise I might've tried to live with it a few more weeks, but
00:05:08 ◼ ► yeah, it was pretty often. And one thing about that, I think a lot of the reviews are focusing
00:05:14 ◼ ► on that for horizontal. Um, it is, it's kind of designed for that, right? Like when you're holding
00:05:20 ◼ ► your phone vertically, it's not quite as optimized. So when you turn it sideways like a traditional
00:05:24 ◼ ► camera, your finger kind of lines up in the right place. But for me anyway, and a lot of people that
00:05:30 ◼ ► use phones for creation, social media is vertical for the most part, other than YouTube, everything
00:05:37 ◼ ► else is vertical. So we spend a lot of time taking vertical content. So almost entirely what I'm
00:05:42 ◼ ► using my phone for when it's horizontal, it's going to be a big camera. So I need that format
00:05:48 ◼ ► to work for me and it definitely was a little awkward. So before I say too much bad about it,
00:05:53 ◼ ► I do want to say that taking the photo works well. So I haven't deactivated the button,
00:05:57 ◼ ► just those additional controls. Do you think the placement, so Apple's explanation for why it's
00:06:03 ◼ ► not closer to the corner, which is where I want it to be. Cause I'm old and shoot almost everything
00:06:08 ◼ ► horizontal. Yeah. Their explanation is that they wanted to find the sweet spot for shooting both
00:06:14 ◼ ► horizontal and vertical. And that does make some sense to me, but do you think it's usable? I do.
00:06:21 ◼ ► Cause I think the tip, the other thing is when you shoot vertical, most people shoot one handed. It
00:06:27 ◼ ► definitely there's no reason to shoot two handed. And so you can grip the phone and kind of put your
00:06:33 ◼ ► thumb there, but it's almost like you want it even higher. You kind of want it where the power button
00:06:40 ◼ ► is, right? Well, the thing is I find for vertical triggering often triggering the shutter is pretty
00:06:47 ◼ ► easy with the volume up button just based on where my hand sits anyway. And I use a regular size pro.
00:06:53 ◼ ► I don't use the max and my pointer finger just ends up in kind of just the right place to press
00:06:58 ◼ ► the volume up. And then the other way I've actually been triggering it is like you were saying with my
00:07:02 ◼ ► palm, I can just squeeze with my palm and launch the camera as well. So there's now there's if I
00:07:08 ◼ ► squeeze either side of the phone, I can take a photo, which is sort of interesting in it,
00:07:12 ◼ ► but I do like this ability to have many different ways into the camera. Like some people were
00:07:17 ◼ ► customizing their home screen to now it launches the calculator app instead of the camera because
00:07:22 ◼ ► they're like, well, I already have other ways into the camera. I want every way into the camera. I
00:07:25 ◼ ► like having maximal access, but yeah, that position thing. I mean, I said the same that
00:07:29 ◼ ► it feels like it should be further down. That's probably, but I hadn't heard Apple's explanation.
00:07:36 ◼ ► You're probably right about that. That maybe the vertical optimization is worth it. But I even did
00:07:40 ◼ ► have a phone clamp that a lot of phone clamps, not all of them, but some of them, they hold the
00:07:46 ◼ ► middle of the phone. So if you're putting your phone on tripod, you have to avoid the power
00:07:50 ◼ ► button that definitely can't be squeezed, but you can pretty easily end up squeezing the camera
00:07:55 ◼ ► control button as well. Here's my wildcard thought on the placement of this. Obviously a lot of
00:08:01 ◼ ► creators shoot both ways, right? There's plenty of people who shoot tons, both vertical and horizontal,
00:08:07 ◼ ► but I think it's like you said, when you are shooting vertical, the volume buttons are much
00:08:14 ◼ ► more accessible to use as a shutter. If you want a hardware button to start the video or to snap
00:08:21 ◼ ► a photo or something like that, I've used them for years shooting still photos without the camera
00:08:29 ◼ ► control button. I've used the buttons and it never doesn't feel weird to have a button on the bottom
00:08:36 ◼ ► that you press up, right? I've probably almost certainly shot more photo. I don't think there's
00:08:50 ◼ ► cameras in my life. Even though I've shot a lot of photos with my Canon DSLR, my Canon film
00:09:01 ◼ ► SLR before that, and my beloved Ricos over the years, my little pocket ones, I had shot
00:09:08 ◼ ► thousands of photos with the Fuji X100S, which I got before those Fuji X100s became sort of like...
00:09:17 ◼ ► Where the autofocus got good? Yeah, well, the X100S, the autofocus is maybe not up to your
00:09:23 ◼ ► standards. That was the whole upgrade over the original X100, or I think the original didn't
00:09:28 ◼ ► have the letter. The X100S was the second gen, but like the X100V was like impossible. It was like
00:09:34 ◼ ► backordered for eight months a couple of years ago. Great camera. I've shot thousands of photos
00:09:38 ◼ ► with those, but it just feels weird to me to have a shutter button on the bottom that you press up,
00:09:44 ◼ ► but I use it. I just can't help but feel though that the camera control... I don't know. Even now,
00:09:52 ◼ ► three weeks into owning this, I still want it more in the corner. It's like I've gotten used to it,
00:09:58 ◼ ► my finger knows where it is, but I still want it more in the corner for shooting horizontal,
00:10:03 ◼ ► and I just can't help but feel that for shooting horizontal, we needed a button up there
00:10:10 ◼ ► more than vertical shooters needed a button over there. And here's my theory, is that the thing
00:10:20 ◼ ► Apple doesn't really want to talk about too much right now, because the feature is not out yet,
00:10:24 ◼ ► is that the other thing that camera control is going to do at some point, I think they've said
00:10:30 ◼ ► by the end of the year, is it's also going to be the thing that you launch for visual intelligence
00:10:35 ◼ ► with Apple intelligence. That's the feature where it's not shooting a photo or taking a video,
00:10:41 ◼ ► you press and hold all the way the button, like the way that you press and hold the power button
00:10:46 ◼ ► to bring up Siri, you press and hold this button, and the Apple intelligence will use the camera to
00:10:52 ◼ ► see what... Apple's example was you pointed at a restaurant on a corner and say, "Hey, what's this
00:10:57 ◼ ► restaurant?" And then it gives you the Yelp reviews and the reservations and stuff like that.
00:11:02 ◼ ► Yeah, I expect that's a huge part of the whole reason for adding this. I almost don't know if
00:11:06 ◼ ► they would have added it without that extra incentive. I think we're really, we obviously
00:11:12 ◼ ► over the last few years, we've already completely changed our relationship with both what is it,
00:11:16 ◼ ► what is the photo, but also what the purpose of imagery coming into our devices is. And especially
00:11:23 ◼ ► younger generations, like the purpose isn't necessarily to capture something significant
00:11:27 ◼ ► at all. Obviously, a lot of it's scanning license plates and just like documenting basic things,
00:11:37 ◼ ► I think is going to be a huge bet. The thing that sold me on it more was actually OpenAI's
00:11:42 ◼ ► demo of, I guess, I don't know what they were running, but in the example of visually impaired
00:11:52 ◼ ► and it's just giving him information about what's in front of him, describing the ducks diving into
00:11:57 ◼ ► the pond and telling him when the taxi's coming. And I don't know if that was actually a running
00:12:01 ◼ ► demo, but when I first saw that I'm like, oh yeah, this can be, this is going to be so incredibly
00:12:08 ◼ ► powerful in so many ways. And the little demos that Apple can represent in the keynote in 2024
00:12:13 ◼ ► are really just the tip of the iceberg. And I think they're betting that could, there's a chance
00:12:21 ◼ ► that could become the more significant way that we interact with our cameras even more than creating
00:12:26 ◼ ► our own memories. I mean, who knows if that's going to happen, but somebody out there is is
00:12:31 ◼ ► betting on it. Right. And I feel the same way. It's like, I'm thinking about it. And even in my
00:12:39 ◼ ► iPhone review, I included the Apple intelligence features that are already available in 18.1,
00:12:45 ◼ ► which I just don't think are that big a deal. And they're coming soon. So I don't think it was,
00:12:52 ◼ ► I didn't feel like I totally agree with your take on it. Like I think calling them the AI branding
00:12:57 ◼ ► almost didn't need to be there. You know, if the world was a little different around Apple would
00:13:01 ◼ ► have called the machine learning and yeah. And not don't worry about what type of machine learning it
00:13:07 ◼ ► was used. But I do think that this feature I, and even though I was writing about Apple intelligence,
00:13:14 ◼ ► I'm I wrote about camera control only in the context of actually using it for video and photos.
00:13:24 ◼ ► If it's not for the visual intelligence feature in Apple intelligence, right? It's so we, you as a
00:13:33 ◼ ► professional photographer and me as a devout prosumer amateur photographer who cares about it,
00:13:41 ◼ ► we get this button and we get to talk about it in the context of photography. But it's I think
00:13:46 ◼ ► the reason that whoever on the camera team within Apple has pro I'm sure some people within Apple
00:13:54 ◼ ► have been pushing for a hardware button for the camera for years. If that's your thing at Apple,
00:13:59 ◼ ► of course, you'd like to do that. I think it's Apple intelligence, though, in this visual
00:14:03 ◼ ► intelligence feature that made it happen this year. And that sort of defines where it goes on
00:14:09 ◼ ► the phone so that it's you can hold your phone up and down vertically and get a good grip, keep a
00:14:15 ◼ ► good grip on it, and use your mash the button and hold it in with your thumb while saying, hey,
00:14:20 ◼ ► what's this? Where am I? What should I do? It's like, also, if I put myself in the shoes of
00:14:25 ◼ ► somebody that's never used an iPhone before, which those people are born every day, there's always
00:14:29 ◼ ► somebody that is going to just start using their iPhone. If I was building new habits, I could see
00:14:34 ◼ ► that being the default way that I start interacting with the camera. Period. It's it's the biggest
00:14:40 ◼ ► bluntest instrument really compared to the swiping right from the main screen, which is pretty easy,
00:14:45 ◼ ► or the button, like all those things are slightly more abstract than this button will always do this
00:14:50 ◼ ► thing. It's physical. I love physical control, especially if I'm reviewing a camera. I really
00:14:56 ◼ ► dislike when too many features are buried in menus, you want as much as possible, especially
00:15:00 ◼ ► in the professional context, exposed physically, that your muscle memory always goes in the same
00:15:06 ◼ ► place. So a new iPhone user like that, sort of like our discussions of well, how often am I
00:15:12 ◼ ► going to use that? And I might launch it from this other screen position. I think a lot of people
00:15:17 ◼ ► will just start with this button and get used to it. And that will be how the camera that'll be the
00:15:22 ◼ ► main path into the camera for a lot of new users. Yeah, I think it's certainly true for me. And
00:15:27 ◼ ► again, I'm coming at it from a decidedly amateur perspective, but I do care about my photos. But
00:15:33 ◼ ► even people who I know who are pros have extremely strong opinions about the physical buttons and
00:15:41 ◼ ► dials on the kit. Even stronger opinions than the rest of the internet. Yes, I hung out in the DP
00:15:46 ◼ ► review forums enough to see those opinions. And people do have opinions about the, you'd think
00:15:52 ◼ ► that image quality is all that matters to a pro photographer. And maybe it's always the first
00:15:56 ◼ ► thing, but all of the major brands have excellent image quality, right? You're not, nobody is going
00:16:02 ◼ ► to say, oh, don't ever buy a Nikon. You get crap pictures from their sensors, right? That's just
00:16:08 ◼ ► not true. But it's, but people will argue, I can't stand where Nikon puts the dial for this, because
00:16:15 ◼ ► either they really have a preference for work, Canon or Sony or whoever else does it. Or they're
00:16:21 ◼ ► just habituated to the way that the brand they had does it right. And you can do things like if
00:16:28 ◼ ► you haven't used a Canon DSLR in 10 years, and you pick up a new one, there's a familiarity with where
00:16:34 ◼ ► the controls, some of the most used controls are placed. Yeah, I posted a little meme post the
00:16:40 ◼ ► other day compared, people were like, look, the iPhone hasn't changed in five years or whatever
00:16:44 ◼ ► the design's basically the same. So I posted the Canon One N, which is their like film pro body,
00:16:52 ◼ ► and the new R1. And side by side, you can't tell which one is which. I mean, they're like 30,
00:16:57 ◼ ► 40 years apart in release. And it's like, this is looks like the identical camera. And I think also
00:17:02 ◼ ► speaking to Fuji that you're mentioning, like their whole comeback, because they weren't making
00:17:08 ◼ ► important cameras for quite a few years. Their comeback was that X100 and putting physical
00:17:14 ◼ ► controls where people wanted them. Like it was all about interface. They were like, image quality is
00:17:19 ◼ ► fine, but using this camera is delightful. You want to have it with you. You want to see it on
00:17:24 ◼ ► a strap and you want to hold it. And the physical interaction is a huge part of, I think even why
00:17:29 ◼ ► people buy a camera at all is the object. They look for me too. I want something that is beautifully
00:17:35 ◼ ► designed and feels good to have on me. Have you ever used an X100 series? Absolutely. Yeah. One
00:17:42 ◼ ► of my first, if you search YouTube for the first X100, that's one of the earliest videos you'll
00:17:47 ◼ ► find on me doing with the guys from the Camera Store TV, DP Review, and now Petapixel. They live
00:17:51 ◼ ► in the same city as me. So we've worked together on a lot of videos over the years. Because the
00:17:56 ◼ ► other thing, it's funny, it is a digression, but I've been thinking about that camera a bit this
00:18:01 ◼ ► week. It is such a digression, but in the context of the meta Orion AR prototypes. Okay. Do you see
00:18:10 ◼ ► where I'm going? Is it the pass-through viewfinder? Yeah. Yeah. So for people out there who don't know
00:18:17 ◼ ► the X100 series, I don't think there's any other camera that does this. It's not a pocket-sized
00:18:22 ◼ ► camera, but it has a fixed lens. You don't interchange lenses. It's like a fixed, I think,
00:18:27 ◼ ► 28 millimeter equivalent lens. And you can look through the viewfinder and there's just a button
00:18:36 ◼ ► that you hit. And it's either looking through like an old school, just totally optical, like just
00:18:41 ◼ ► actually not electronic at all, or you hit a button and you can see the electronic version
00:18:48 ◼ ► of what the sensor is getting. And you can just switch between them on the fly. And so like in
00:18:55 ◼ ► super bright sunlight, noontime on a sunny summer day, at least on my old X100S, there were times
00:19:03 ◼ ► where the digital sensor just, it would be too blown out. You really couldn't get a good preview
00:19:08 ◼ ► of the image. Whereas you could just look through the glass and see it. And sometimes like for me,
00:19:14 ◼ ► like at night in dark, you want the electronic one because you actually get, I can see more than my
00:19:21 ◼ ► eye can see. And I used both a lot, but it does remind me of the difference between AR glasses,
00:19:29 ◼ ► where you're just looking through the glasses and VR passthrough. Right. Yeah. I spent a lot of time
00:19:36 ◼ ► thinking about the influence of switching to mirrorless and always viewing things digitally
00:19:41 ◼ ► compared to when we were living in the mirrorless world and you were looking at reality. Like
00:19:49 ◼ ► I've never got a clear answer. When you are looking, if you're looking through a viewfinder
00:19:52 ◼ ► of a camera, are your eyes focusing infinitely or are they focusing close? They're all like,
00:19:59 ◼ ► I don't think I'm qualified to answer. And same, I was asking with the vision pro, I asked that in
00:20:03 ◼ ► my briefing about it as well. And I'm almost certain the answer is that you are focusing
00:20:08 ◼ ► at infinity. You're focusing at the distance your eyes perceive. I don't think you're focusing
00:20:12 ◼ ► millimeters from your eye, but it changes things like that. Is it very, it is a totally different
00:20:17 ◼ ► experience than physically seeing the world. And like you said, the way the X100 does it,
00:20:20 ◼ ► especially that camera, I mean, came out in 2011 and did it so well, like even another way that
00:20:26 ◼ ► it works is you can have real world viewing. Most of the time, there's little displays that hover
00:20:31 ◼ ► over it just like on, well, not just the lines infinitely more impressive. You can see little
00:20:35 ◼ ► controls that are sort of hovering over reality. And as you take the button, it seamlessly flips
00:20:41 ◼ ► over to a digital preview of what you just took for 0.5 seconds and comes back to reality. And
00:20:46 ◼ ► it's such a refined experience that they did since the first version. But yeah, I get the comparison.
00:20:52 ◼ ► Yeah. And it totally makes me see, it confirms my belief that AR glasses are the way to go. I mean,
00:21:02 ◼ ► it's a total digression, the competitive stance of a prototype versus a shipping product. But
00:21:12 ◼ ► it's a huge part of the success of that camera line. Do you have, with the camera control,
00:21:34 ◼ ► I'm counting the ones in my deleted. Hopefully they're countable. Hopefully it's not in the
00:21:40 ◼ ► hundreds. No. Yeah. I would say I have about 30 of them. Maybe, but the fewer and fewer as the
00:21:47 ◼ ► days go on. Training yourself out of it. Yeah. I've trained myself not to do it. I've gotten
00:21:52 ◼ ► around this just by getting used to the camera, but it's like my camera habit is that I want a
00:21:58 ◼ ► button that is as I'm taking the phone out of my pocket, I'm hitting this button and I expect that
00:22:04 ◼ ► by the time it's in front of my face, it's on and ready to shoot, which is how like my Ricoh GRD
00:22:10 ◼ ► works. I just have to give up on doing that with camera control because the problem is that if the
00:22:16 ◼ ► screen is locked and you hit the prep, mash this camera control button, it just wakes the screen.
00:22:22 ◼ ► And then when the screen is awake, even though it could still be locked, you have to hit the button
00:22:26 ◼ ► again. And I've just given up on it and I just take the phone out. Wait till I know the screen
00:22:37 ◼ ► mashing on it the whole time coming out of your pockets. But then I get the accidental photos.
00:22:43 ◼ ► And that's the other thing too, is it's like, well, I just lived with a bunch of photos I have
00:22:46 ◼ ► to delete. I don't know. Yeah. Moving on from camera control. Actually, let's take a break.
00:22:51 ◼ ► Let's take a break. And I will thank our first sponsor right here, right after the camera control
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00:23:37 ◼ ► from the get go is that you design your Squarespace website in Squarespace itself is as the owner of
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00:26:15 ◼ ► Next on my list was talking about sort of going up the ladder of professional features,
00:26:23 ◼ ► photographic styles. And your video explained something to me that I think should have been
00:26:29 ◼ ► obvious, but really wasn't to me until I watched your review, which is that when you start in a
00:26:38 ◼ ► list of photographic styles on an iPhone 16, it starts at standard, which makes sense. But to the
00:26:44 ◼ ► left and to the right are two different sets of photographic styles. And it didn't make as much
00:26:52 ◼ ► sense to me until I watched your video. Can you explain the difference between the ones to the
00:26:56 ◼ ► left and the ones to the right? Yeah, I don't know that Apple really did explain it. So you kind of
00:27:02 ◼ ► have to, well, there's, you know, they're labeled a little bit. I know the left is called undertones
00:27:06 ◼ ► and I forget what the right is called. I'm going to call them filters. But that's not what they
00:27:10 ◼ ► call them. Yeah, no, it's something else. But you know, it looks like Instagram filters or something,
00:27:17 ◼ ► right? You can really see it though, as you flip through them, that the undertones are really meant
00:27:23 ◼ ► to be similar to what you'd have in camera profiles in a bigger mirrorless camera. There's
00:27:29 ◼ ► always a few different settings you can have like portrait and landscape and simple things like
00:27:33 ◼ ► that. Except all of the undertones are sort of designed around skin is the way that Apple
00:27:37 ◼ ► presents it. And they don't, they still don't have a really massive effect. It is basically
00:27:45 ◼ ► targeting more or less targeting the warmth of the image, they can have warmer or cooler presets,
00:27:49 ◼ ► and they preserve good looking skins throughout that. So they're a lot gentler and a lot subtler
00:27:58 ◼ ► than the right side, the side that's not called filters, where those are just called mood. Okay,
00:28:05 ◼ ► mood that that word is fitting for it are a lot more aggressive. They look like you have changed
00:28:10 ◼ ► the whole image. And I'm sure Apple is still targeting different areas. From their perspective,
00:28:16 ◼ ► they're targeting different areas. For myself, the way that I process an image, it does not feel
00:28:27 ◼ ► your shadows are going to turn bright yellow, or it's very has a lot of opinions about what your
00:28:34 ◼ ► image could look like. And I was disappointed. But well, I wouldn't say disappointed because I've
00:28:39 ◼ ► actually never seen great presets built into any device except Fuji cameras. Honestly, Fuji is
00:28:45 ◼ ► still the only one that have that film emulation dialed in where this looks like it could be a
00:28:52 ◼ ► finished image. Every other camera, professionals will always change the way that it looks like
00:28:58 ◼ ► people say they love Canon colors, but pros using Canon are changing those colors a lot all the
00:29:04 ◼ ► time. And there just have not been many examples of great built in colors. And I unfortunately,
00:29:09 ◼ ► I don't think Apple knocked it out of the park with that that whole mood section, which they
00:29:14 ◼ ► could have right. Like the way that portrait 400 looks people still shoot film because it looks a
00:29:20 ◼ ► certain way. And there was definitely no ambition to go after that. And it's always been strange to
00:29:25 ◼ ► me because there's this huge cottage industry of people that make presets and lots and different
00:29:31 ◼ ► like I do it too. And it's, we're all going at, we're all just trying to make it look like Kodak
00:29:36 ◼ ► and Fuji from the nineties. And it just seems like Apple's not interested in that, which is
00:29:40 ◼ ► what's even stranger to me is that Kodak and Fuji have never gotten the business of licensing
00:29:46 ◼ ► the color science of like, here, look, if you install this, you can say you've got portrait
00:29:52 ◼ ► on your cameras and it actually responds similarly to how the film did. Apple didn't really do that.
00:29:57 ◼ ► And I don't plan on using the mood ones at all. Whereas the undertones there, they are definitely
00:30:02 ◼ ► a bit more useful and I'm probably going to be sticking to Amber pretty much full time on it.
00:30:07 ◼ ► There is an interesting, I've mentioned this recently and I'm always forgetting the exact
00:30:18 ◼ ► how the basic idea is easy to explain, but it's that when technologies get innovated out of
00:30:26 ◼ ► business, it's like this sort of along the lines of the innovators, the dilemma thing. It's often
00:30:32 ◼ ► why they don't see the innovation coming is that they're at the best they've ever been. And his
00:30:39 ◼ ► example is like pass it, propeller based passenger planes from like the fifties and sixties before
00:30:46 ◼ ► jets came in and just completely eliminated them. I mean, when's the last time anybody's flown on a
00:30:58 ◼ ► planes were like the nicest, smoothest rides. And they were in some ways better than the first
00:31:05 ◼ ► generation of jets. They just were less efficient and so they got went out. And this same thing
00:31:10 ◼ ► happened with film versus digital, right? It's film never looked better. Whether you were shooting
00:31:27 ◼ ► obviously people still shoot film and it's having a little bit of renaissance and there's people
00:31:32 ◼ ► like Christopher Nolan who will go through the effort of still shooting major motion pictures
00:31:37 ◼ ► on film, but it's the exception rather than the norm. And it's because the camera industry spent
00:31:45 ◼ ► over a hundred years getting to that point of getting pictures that are so pleasing to the human
00:31:52 ◼ ► eye. And it's not that Portra 400 was super realistic. Oh, go back to the scene of the photo,
00:31:59 ◼ ► hold up your print. And it's yes, this looks exactly like what my naked eye sees in the real
00:32:03 ◼ ► world. No opposite almost. Yeah, right. It's the opposite, but not in a kitschy over stylistic way.
00:32:18 ◼ ► I think it goes to why Apple, I think Apple chose not to use filters because they don't
00:32:23 ◼ ► want to call these filters, but it's why, what other word could they use? Mood is what they're
00:32:28 ◼ ► chasing, right? And that's what people who had photographers who know their film stocks,
00:32:33 ◼ ► why they have an affinity for certain films or why they would pick a certain film stock
00:32:38 ◼ ► to give a feeling or flavor to what they're shooting. That just was right there. Not that
00:32:45 ◼ ► processing wasn't part of the job, but that the film itself had a certain flavor just right when
00:32:51 ◼ ► the light hits the film. This is something I spent a lot of time thinking about. If I were to make a
00:32:57 ◼ ► documentary right now, it would be about the years where digital blew up, which that was like, as I
00:33:05 ◼ ► started my career, you know, when I was in college, which were more for design than photography, but
00:33:10 ◼ ► all my photo friends were transitioning those few years. They were closing the dark rooms and
00:33:14 ◼ ► switching it to digital. So I saw both worlds and something was completely lost in the color science
00:33:22 ◼ ► of moving to digital. Anytime I talked to like industry, insider people, camera companies, or
00:33:27 ◼ ► professional colorists, like people that know, I'm trying to figure out what happened in those years
00:33:33 ◼ ► that we gave up the, like you say, the 100 years of incredible color technology that Canon and Fuji
00:33:40 ◼ ► and others had developed that gave us what are still some of the most pleasing results. Like
00:33:45 ◼ ► enough that Christopher Nolan is still going to choose it over digital, which has infinite
00:33:49 ◼ ► flexibility. It's still going to go with film because it's so refined and it's really like
00:33:54 ◼ ► beautiful and incredible. And you don't need to fix it in, you don't need to fix it in post color
00:34:00 ◼ ► wise, like it's already fantastic. And that was just abandoned when we went to digital and it was
00:34:04 ◼ ► this, like the engineers took over basically, and they're like clinical accuracy. We want it to be
00:34:09 ◼ ► accurate and just walked away from all of that beauty. And I'm just like, why weren't these Canon
00:34:17 ◼ ► color people getting hired over at Canon and Sony and what, how was there no communication? And I
00:34:22 ◼ ► think it actually took quite a while. In my shooting career, a lot of stuff, look, when I
00:34:26 ◼ ► look at my early photos looked super boring. And once I started discovering Lightroom presets,
00:34:31 ◼ ► they're all over baked. And now I look, I was like, Oh, no, thank you. But there was years where
00:34:36 ◼ ► we were all doing that. Everything looked pretty mediocre in digital and film was still looking
00:34:40 ◼ ► better for 10 years. And it's only sort of more recently, the last more recent decade that digital
00:34:46 ◼ ► can look great. And we sort of have the process to make it look amazing, but it was like I say,
00:34:53 ◼ ► it was just lost and I don't know how that happened and how it still hasn't fully recovered.
00:34:59 ◼ ► There's still not many just built in ways of getting colors that pleasing. Cause I think
00:35:06 ◼ ► just about anybody presented with a film photo and a digital photo, not to pick on iPhone. I mean,
00:35:12 ◼ ► this is like any professional company, put them side by side, straight out of camera. 90% of
00:35:17 ◼ ► people are going to choose the film. Yeah. I don't know 90, but 70%. For me, where it really hits
00:35:31 ◼ ► is the, is Apple's photo photos widget, which has been amazing for years. And it's like my
00:35:38 ◼ ► favorite thing. I keep, I keep it at the top of my second iPhone screen for years. And it just shows
00:35:44 ◼ ► you a machine learning backed, Hey, here's a photo you might want to see. And it might be from five
00:35:50 ◼ ► years ago, might be from 10 years ago, whatever. But when my son's now 20 and for, I think about
00:35:57 ◼ ► the first two years of his life, I was still shooting with 35 millimeter film on a, the
00:36:03 ◼ ► cheapest Canon digital rebel might've been like the first digital rebel. I don't know. It was,
00:36:09 ◼ ► you know, I think I paid four or $500 for the camera and my, the lens, I, the two lenses I
00:36:17 ◼ ► kept locked on the camera where the, the Canon F 1.8 50 millimeter prime, which is like the
00:36:25 ◼ ► best bang for the buck. It's like the go-to photo student camera. It's $90. It's a plastic lens.
00:36:32 ◼ ► It's not super well-made, but it's a $90 lens, but it's a 50 millimeter prime on 35 millimeter
00:36:39 ◼ ► film is just a classic combination. And you get the bokeh, you get this great color. And then I
00:36:44 ◼ ► had a 28 millimeter prime lens, which I think was like three or $400. So like the whole kit
00:36:50 ◼ ► was like a thousand dollars total two lenses. Uh, the cheapest, maybe it wasn't a rebel. I
00:36:57 ◼ ► forget what the 35 millimeter camera cam, Canon made was, but it was just their cheapest 35
00:37:02 ◼ ► millimeter camera. When not, when those photos come up in my photo widget, cause I, what I do
00:37:07 ◼ ► is I'd go get the photos developed and have them scanned to a CD from the photo lab. And so they're
00:37:13 ◼ ► all digital. They're in my photo library. When those, when one of those comes up every time it
00:37:19 ◼ ► is like, Whoa. And all I did, I, I'm not, I care enough about photography that I had a prime lens
00:37:25 ◼ ► and I was shooting on a little bit more than someone with a point and shoot, but all I did
00:37:29 ◼ ► was just point them, do the half press to focus and then full press to get a release. I'm not a
00:37:34 ◼ ► professional. And some of these photos are, are just like, they make you, they make the hair on
00:37:41 ◼ ► my neck stand up. It's Whoa. I cannot believe that. I can't believe I shot that photo 20,
00:37:47 ◼ ► 20 years ago. It's still like that now that the cheapest way probably to go get the best colors
00:37:53 ◼ ► you've ever seen from a photo in your life. I mean, not just colors, but yeah, the whole image
00:37:56 ◼ ► is going to just make your eyes pop is go buy a used, whatever you want rebel on eBay for 50 bucks,
00:38:03 ◼ ► put a 50 millimeter 1.8 on it, buy a roll of Kodak gold 400. And that those results will,
00:38:10 ◼ ► it's not going to be as sharp, but who cares? It looks, it is just more exciting. And it's not a
00:38:15 ◼ ► magic thing about film in the filmmaking world, in the cinema world, where there's a lot more
00:38:22 ◼ ► attention to the color of the final product. Like photographers don't end up with as much
00:38:27 ◼ ► color science knowledge, typically as what will be applied to a movie. Cause you've got somebody
00:38:32 ◼ ► dedicated. They spend their whole life studying this and perfecting it. That's where you can see
00:38:37 ◼ ► results that are like basically as good as film. People can match cinema to film, but in the
00:38:42 ◼ ► photography world, just go pick up a film camera and you'll probably be a lot more excited by what
00:38:47 ◼ ► you get out of it for a lot cheaper and for zero effort. What's the guy who's Ryan Johnson's go-to
00:38:54 ◼ ► cinematographer? Oh yeah, Stevie Edlin. Stevie, a genius. Yeah. Yeah. And has shot without,
00:39:01 ◼ ► he has such a great disposition where there's these angry wars between the film people and the
00:39:10 ◼ ► digital people. And I'm all digital and I hate you film people. And the film people are like,
00:39:14 ◼ ► your images all look like crap. And Stevie Edlin's right in the middle, who's just like, well, I shot
00:39:19 ◼ ► some scenes on film and I shot some scenes on digital, the exact same scenes. Here they are
00:39:25 ◼ ► side by, and I tried to make them look the same. And in Star Wars, he's late way later admitted,
00:39:38 ◼ ► Well, if anybody hasn't seen the Stevie Edlin display prep demo, it's his video that you're
00:39:44 ◼ ► probably referring to there. And it's just, it changed, I think changed a lot of people's
00:39:58 ◼ ► get to that level more often than photographers. Cause I think there's just like more on the line
00:40:18 ◼ ► it's less money to shoot digital and you don't have to develop anything and it's easier to deal
00:40:24 ◼ ► with, but it's nothing like shooting a feature film cost-wise. Like it's the reason why it was
00:40:30 ◼ ► so hard for independent filmmakers to ever make a movie before digital because it was just the film
00:40:38 ◼ ► alone was impossible. Right? I mean, what was the, who's the guy who wears a bandana and he does the
00:40:45 ◼ ► movies with Antonio Banderas, an independent filmmaker. Oh, Rodriguez. Yeah. Robert Rodriguez,
00:40:54 ◼ ► Robert. And his first movie he shot all by himself. It made like an action movie for $7,000. And then
00:41:01 ◼ ► he wrote a book about how he did it. And it has some amazing stuff on it. It has stunts where
00:41:06 ◼ ► there's guys like jumping from a balcony onto the top of a bus. And it's like, it was, had to be
00:41:11 ◼ ► done practically, but the whole, like the $7,000 budget for a feature action movie was like amazing,
00:41:25 ◼ ► rebel without a crew. It's I will put a link to the show notes, but it was all the film. It was,
00:41:30 ◼ ► it would have been like, if he could have shot digital, then he could have shot the movie for $500.
00:41:34 ◼ ► It's so obvious to say, but this, I, to be a young filmmaker, just starting out owning an iPhone right
00:41:50 ◼ ► that was the turning point for professional stuff, obviously, because that's also when Apple started
00:41:53 ◼ ► doing their keynotes on it, but all of a sudden, yeah, like you say, that cost goes away. No more
00:41:59 ◼ ► worrying about the film. You probably don't even have to buy a camera and you can make something
00:42:03 ◼ ► that could play in a cinema at film festivals. It would look different, but it would look great. It
00:42:10 ◼ ► would, it would not look amateur if you did it well, you could tell any story on an iPhone.
00:42:19 ◼ ► we, with the iPhone 12, we'd look at it next to SLR photos or mirrorless photos and be like,
00:42:25 ◼ ► oh, you know, like it's comparable. Like it's kind of close, but that was a bit of a stretch.
00:42:34 ◼ ► the iPhone video. I really noticed it in the bear in season two. Suddenly in the middle of nowhere,
00:42:38 ◼ ► there's two or three shots, they're on a road trip. And on my big TV, I could just spot. I'm
00:42:44 ◼ ► like, those are iPhone videos. Like clearly all of a sudden out of nowhere, there's a few shots.
00:42:49 ◼ ► I'm like, that is a hundred percent a phone. And it's basically the sharpening, just like the way
00:42:52 ◼ ► that a phone processes the details and that like kind of bring tries to bring out more detail than
00:42:59 ◼ ► is really there. You can, I could totally spot it. It was clear to me, but now with the log
00:43:05 ◼ ► features of the 15 pro 16 pro I wouldn't have spotted it anymore. Now it would blend in a
00:43:28 ◼ ► but the people who think that the reason the iPhone switched to USB-C is exclusively because
00:43:40 ◼ ► It was very obvious that Apple was going to move that year. Yeah. Right. It was a great,
00:43:45 ◼ ► it was a great year to do it well. And it was also a full year ahead of when the mandate kicked in
00:43:50 ◼ ► and they didn't it on, on the consumer ones. Yes. The lightning port just turned into a USB-C port
00:43:57 ◼ ► and you're still have USB-C two speeds for data transfer. And there's no other real magic out of
00:44:03 ◼ ► the port. It's just a different charger, but on the pro models, the USB-C port turned into
00:44:09 ◼ ► a literal superpower for photography and especially video. Some of the footage you shoot
00:44:20 ◼ ► It's especially the 120 frames per second pro res log. You can do it in third party apps,
00:44:27 ◼ ► but not with apples. Right. Yeah. It's not, I guess it's not really like a technical limitation.
00:44:32 ◼ ► It's like, yeah, this is going to fill up the internal storage so quickly that we're not even
00:44:37 ◼ ► going to do it. Yeah. You just don't want to do it. So you have to shoot to an external drive
00:44:42 ◼ ► connected to the phone. So I guess where I'm going with this is that I kind of feel like what Apple
00:44:48 ◼ ► did to go back to the photographic styles. So the ones on the left are really just about color and
00:44:54 ◼ ► that's what they're named, right? They're things like Amber and Amber's the one you like. What are
00:44:59 ◼ ► the other ones? Gold is also, to me, it's usable. There's one that's, I'm not looking at them,
00:45:03 ◼ ► but like Cool Rose or something, which doesn't make sense to me because the way I've heard
00:45:08 ◼ ► some other reviewers talk about them is they're like, depending on your skin tone, you might
00:45:13 ◼ ► prefer XYZ. And that's a strange approach to me. I wouldn't take that approach. I would think of it
00:45:19 ◼ ► more like film where do you like portrait or do you like gold or do you like superior? Choose that
00:45:27 ◼ ► film stock. When you have a group of people in the photo, if you're shooting film, you don't worry
00:45:31 ◼ ► about the film being applicable to the skin color of the people in the image. If it's a good film
00:45:36 ◼ ► stock, it will represent everybody well and capture it properly. And I think it's safe to
00:45:41 ◼ ► take the same approach to the undertones. These are designed to look good in most situations.
00:45:47 ◼ ► And the key that I found, which Nilay talked about this on your show already, but just to agree,
00:45:53 ◼ ► the big difference this year is taking that tone slider and bringing it down, not all the way. It
00:45:59 ◼ ► gets pretty dramatic. I take it down about 50%, 60%. And then also I add a little bit of color
00:46:06 ◼ ► back in cause bringing it down does drain some of the saturation. So for me, that sort of secret
00:46:20 ◼ ► just this amazing sweet spot where the shadows look more natural, more like they would in the
00:46:25 ◼ ► film days or on a bigger camera without looking like a filter. I think that's the best straight
00:46:32 ◼ ► out of iPhone images ever looked. Yeah, I totally agree, especially with the tone being like halfway
00:46:38 ◼ ► down. I think it's like negative 50, negative 60 in that range. And they've made it really easy to
00:46:43 ◼ ► tweak. If you're looking at the preview and you're like, ah, that maybe that's too much shadow and
00:46:46 ◼ ► you can go from 60 to 50 or something, but it definitely takes out. It feels like maybe the
00:46:55 ◼ ► typical person thinks, ah, but if I'm, when I'm futzing with these settings, I'm adding
00:47:07 ◼ ► image processing, but it really, when you decrease the tone like that, it's really taking away that
00:47:15 ◼ ► over-processed over-sharpened look. It's, it's really telling the iPhone to do less. I mean,
00:47:21 ◼ ► maybe it's not doing less, but it looks like it's doing less and it has less of that telltale
00:47:34 ◼ ► Well, I think also just since you have a lot of people listening, a great thing to bring up here,
00:47:39 ◼ ► because this is one of the most common questions I've been getting is that it, by default,
00:47:42 ◼ ► it doesn't preserve the tone that you used. You kind of have to keep resetting it. That's
00:47:47 ◼ ► if you don't dig into the settings, it won't do any of this. So if you go into settings, camera,
00:47:51 ◼ ► preserve settings, that whole menu has gotten a little bit out of control. There's a lot of
00:48:00 ◼ ► will keep using whatever style you used last. So be careful with it in case you're using the
00:48:05 ◼ ► crazy filters, because then you might have a weird filter on everything. But if you do something
00:48:10 ◼ ► subtle, it'll stay on. And that's what I've been doing. Yeah, and it does. It's that whole section
00:48:16 ◼ ► of settings is sort of, I don't know what else Apple can do because they are trying to please
00:48:21 ◼ ► this incredible spectrum of photography where, yes, they know how many zillions of iPhone users
00:48:30 ◼ ► just want to point, see what's in the frame, shoot and be done and get good results and not be
00:48:36 ◼ ► surprised and never are going to go back and edit, even though they can, but they're not going to.
00:48:44 ◼ ► And so if they preserved by, if out of the box, it preserved settings and somebody was either by
00:48:50 ◼ ► accident or just was fooling around and changed the settings and got something sort of extreme,
00:48:56 ◼ ► like tone at negative a hundred. And now you've got these really dramatic, overdramatic shadows.
00:49:03 ◼ ► And then it by default stayed there every time they turn the camera back on, they're going to
00:49:07 ◼ ► be like, ah, all of my iPhone photos this year look really weird. This phone camera is terrible.
00:49:13 ◼ ► Yeah. Right. And their images aren't, it's not baked in. They could edit it, but if most people
00:49:18 ◼ ► never go and edit so well, and you have to edit one at a time, you can't batch edits. You can undo
00:49:24 ◼ ► everything for a whole group of images as it is right now. Right. But for the people listening
00:49:30 ◼ ► to this show, knowing that if you are going to take Tyler's recipe, Amber tone, negative 50,
00:49:37 ◼ ► negative 60 color, plus 20. Was that what you said? Yeah. I'll put a link. Cause I know,
00:49:42 ◼ ► I know. Yeah. Play around with it. But then it's a basic recipe. If you go to settings and save it,
00:49:53 ◼ ► that's what you'll be starting with. Yeah. And if you don't like it, you can change it.
00:49:58 ◼ ► One thing I think is actually strange is if you turn that tone up, go to plus 50. Yeah. Or actually,
00:50:03 ◼ ► I mean, go to plus 100 and who is going to use that? It looks crazy to me. Like it looks broken
00:50:09 ◼ ► totally. If you put your settings there, you're like, Oh, this phone is terrible. It ruins the
00:50:13 ◼ ► photo. And I just, it seems like they could have dialed that back a lot. What is a hundred could
00:50:18 ◼ ► have been where like plus 20 is or something like that. I'm surprised too. Like why do they let you
00:50:24 ◼ ► go that far? It's cause I, and I'm trying, I can't imagine the lighting scenario where, yeah, maybe
00:50:31 ◼ ► you'd want that. If like you're in a dark room, no, no, no, no, no. Just turn up the exposure
00:50:36 ◼ ► because if you're in a dark room, you still want that. Contrast profile, right? Where the shadows
00:50:42 ◼ ► still fall down to shadows and basically you want it to move in the same direction everywhere. Like
00:50:48 ◼ ► again, keep coming back to film, but you know, if you expose correctly in a dark environment,
00:51:01 ◼ ► I guess my wish, and I, I'm not trying to put people like you out of business who've created
00:51:07 ◼ ► color profiles for like Kino, but that's kind of where I wish Apple would go like next year
00:51:14 ◼ ► and is sort of, eh, maybe get rid of these things like luminous and those things and just sort of
00:51:22 ◼ ► make the other ones like this looks terrible. I don't, that's another one where I just,
00:51:26 ◼ ► I don't know when it's supposed to look good. I really don't. It's like the thing Apple clearly
00:51:31 ◼ ► has some of the best color scientists in the world working on this. And if they were on your show
00:51:35 ◼ ► right now, they would probably be like agreeing with a lot of what we're saying about film and
00:51:39 ◼ ► what makes an image look good. And people that are interested in color science sort of share
00:51:44 ◼ ► these opinions generally. So it's so strange to me to see those results come baked into the phone
00:51:50 ◼ ► where I'm like photographers, I know, I don't know any photographers that would like this. So who,
00:52:00 ◼ ► who, Neil, I quoted in his review at the verge, but John was giving the briefings to a bunch of
00:52:08 ◼ ► us in the media. That was the briefings that were at their Apple's new observatory building
00:52:13 ◼ ► on keynote day. And there was, it was sort of like a multi-station briefing where there was
00:52:20 ◼ ► one to talk about, like the, I don't know. The one I remember is the one about photography,
00:52:27 ◼ ► but there was another station where we talked about, oh, there was another station outside where
00:52:31 ◼ ► it was also related to photography. We can talk about this where we, they did a live demo of the
00:52:37 ◼ ► sound recording options for video, like studio, cinematic, in-frame, those type things, a live
00:52:45 ◼ ► demo where we could watch the, they hired a couple actors to sort of do a brief scene in front of us.
00:52:52 ◼ ► So we could watch, be there present and see the real ambient noise around us and then play back
00:53:01 ◼ ► the video that they just shot in front of us with the different audio settings. But McCormack in his
00:53:07 ◼ ► briefing to us was talking extensively about how much the whole team really cherishes and researched
00:53:18 ◼ ► the history of photographic styles and where did sepia tone film come from and why, and going back
00:53:27 ◼ ► to the origins of photography in the 1800s and where these things came from. And it just seems
00:53:33 ◼ ► a bit incongruous to me that some of the photographic styles just seem not to be rooted
00:53:39 ◼ ► in that history at all. They just seem purely like 2010 Instagram filters. Yeah. And the thing is,
00:53:45 ◼ ► you look at McCormack's photography, like he's a fantastic photographer and posts to Instagram and
00:53:50 ◼ ► stuff, and those colors aren't like that at all. They're, you know, like what everybody would agree
00:53:54 ◼ ► are beautiful colors. So the taste is there, like internally the individuals have it. I just think
00:54:00 ◼ ► it's odd that it's not more wide. It's not part of the, it's not built in a way that it's. Yeah.
00:54:06 ◼ ► So what I'd like to see Apple do is switch from those to something more. I don't know if they
00:54:17 ◼ ► but make it look like classic film emulation. Totally. I don't know why they're not. I was
00:54:22 ◼ ► saying like, yeah, I do these presets. They should be putting all of us like content creators selling
00:54:27 ◼ ► presets that should be driven out of business because the Apple ones are so good. If it was
00:54:31 ◼ ► as good as film, people wouldn't have this appetite to be buying all the independent presets because
00:54:37 ◼ ► it would already be great. So that's the way it should be. I mean, maybe I should hope that it
00:54:42 ◼ ► doesn't end up there, but yeah, they, they, they could and hope hopefully someday they kind of get
00:54:47 ◼ ► there. Well, yeah. Explain to me the JPEG XL thing with. Oh yeah. I'm very excited about this. So I
00:54:54 ◼ ► am so confused though. Yeah, it is quite confusing and I know it needs some explanation. That's
00:54:59 ◼ ► probably why it wasn't in the keynote at all, but a friend of mine was working on the redesign of
00:55:05 ◼ ► they like relaunched the JPEG XL like information website. And so he was kind of like the whole way
00:55:11 ◼ ► he's you got to check out this JPEG XL thing. And I was like, okay, I guess like this was a year ago.
00:55:16 ◼ ► I'm like, sure. New compression. We've heard of this before. The more I look at it, I'm like,
00:55:22 ◼ ► this is great. This is the future. This is so much better than JPEG. And overall what JPEG XL is, is
00:55:27 ◼ ► just a new compression method, right? They're like, okay, we need to improve and replace the
00:55:34 ◼ ► JPEG standard that's been there. There's been a lot of attempts at this. The reason this is much
00:55:37 ◼ ► better than especially the whole Heath H E I C format that came before on iPhones. And I think
00:55:43 ◼ ► it's also better than what Google is doing is it's open source. First of all, that's the biggest
00:55:48 ◼ ► thing. So there's no licensing fees. If you notice, like even as he used to have been on
00:55:51 ◼ ► iPhones for a few years now, it's not adopted widely. You still can't save them out of Adobe.
00:55:55 ◼ ► And it's because of the licensing. It is a closed format image, and it's also very limited. So it's
00:55:59 ◼ ► a video compression format that basically saves stills. So it's way more efficient than JPEG in
00:56:05 ◼ ► terms of file size. So it can carry some extra metadata along with it. There's some benefits,
00:56:10 ◼ ► but it's really kind of a bandaid solution. JPEG XL is designed to just replace all of it.
00:56:18 ◼ ► So it's much, much more efficient, both in computer processing, like CPU to generate them,
00:56:25 ◼ ► and then much smaller file sizes with higher image quality. And it supports a huge range of different
00:56:37 ◼ ► encoding at a huge range. So like, you know, can do lossy encoding that preserves all of the detail
00:56:43 ◼ ► or makes it extremely small for the web. It can do animations. It can do transparencies.
00:56:54 ◼ ► them all. What was added on the iPhone this year is not JPEG XL overall. That was the rumor I kind
00:56:59 ◼ ► of hoped it would lead to. It could be a standard, like the format is .JXL and we'd get that instead
00:57:06 ◼ ► of .HEIF or whatever the extension. Yeah, it is HEIC. And we have three or four different
00:57:15 ◼ ► extensions from it. Apparently HEIC is Apple's sort of proprietary container for HEIF. And
00:57:22 ◼ ► that's what the C is. But let's just call it HEIC or HEIF. But nobody gets it. I mean, after years
00:57:27 ◼ ► of it being around and it still also causes a lot of problems with regular users when they need to
00:57:37 ◼ ► Right. It's like when you export or share, typically it just is, okay, if you're sharing,
00:57:43 ◼ ► we're going to turn it into a JPEG. So instead of giving you the image that's already in your
00:57:48 ◼ ► library, it's doing a quick conversion, which is very fast. But if it was in a widely supported
00:57:55 ◼ ► format, there wouldn't need to be any conversion to do it. Well, sometimes it's still a problem.
00:57:59 ◼ ► You'll airdrop something to your Mac and it doesn't convert it because your Mac supports it.
00:58:04 ◼ ► And then you want to bring it into maybe Google Docs. I don't know which applications don't
00:58:08 ◼ ► support it, but the application won't do the conversion. So now you have to find a normal
00:58:13 ◼ ► user, has to find a way to convert to a JPEG. I mean, that is right. And the normal user then
00:58:17 ◼ ► has to make decisions like, oh, okay. Even if you get to the point where you know how to go and open
00:58:22 ◼ ► it up in a certain app and do a save as or an export, now you're the one with your mouse on the
00:58:28 ◼ ► slider for 85% compression. 90? I don't know. 75? What do I do? Whereas you really kind of want that
00:58:35 ◼ ► decision made for you. Here's an image that's in JPEG format. It'll open up anywhere and it's
00:58:41 ◼ ► good compression, a good balance between file size and image quality. Well, and so to explain what
00:58:47 ◼ ► did change this year on the 16 Pro, this isn't on the regular 16. First, I'll just say what Adobe
00:58:53 ◼ ► did with it recently. They've always had a format called lossy DNG, or not always, but there's a
00:58:57 ◼ ► format called lossy DNG in Lightroom and just supported by the Adobe ecosystem. DNG being Adobe's
00:59:03 ◼ ► raw container. It can both be a container and a codec within it. And they switched their lossy,
00:59:10 ◼ ► like their more compressed raw option to be JPEG XL. I don't know what it was before, but you know,
00:59:17 ◼ ► it used to reduce the size of your raw files by 30% or 50%. Now it's one 10th. So if you like,
00:59:23 ◼ ► select all your raw files in Lightroom, they convert to lossy, you will have one 10th of the
00:59:28 ◼ ► file size. And I need that. And the final, the results to my eye, I can not spot a difference.
00:59:37 ◼ ► And I know there's a lot, like there's pixel peepers out there that will be like, well,
00:59:41 ◼ ► I want, I just want lossless just in case I don't want to ever have any doubt in the back of my mind
00:59:46 ◼ ► that there could be something lost. And I understand that, but even pushing these around
00:59:51 ◼ ► and editing them heavily and doing color mapping and pushing white balance all over the place,
00:59:56 ◼ ► I have not been able to perceive a compression difference. And so what Apple did is brought in
01:00:02 ◼ ► a similar format for their raw files. The raw files used to be about 70, 80 megabytes each,
01:00:09 ◼ ► which is that's big for raw. Generally most camp, like on a Canon, you can get them around like 50
01:00:22 ◼ ► kind of unmanageable. You couldn't keep them on your phone forever because you start filling up.
01:00:25 ◼ ► So now you can have raw files with this more compressed method that retains all of the image
01:00:31 ◼ ► quality. So you're going from 70, 80 megabytes down to 10 or 20, depending on the resolution
01:00:50 ◼ ► - I can't see it. I looked in your video and I've seen examples and Apple had examples for
01:00:55 ◼ ► us to look at in the press and it's zoom into a hundred percent pixel for pixel on screen.
01:01:25 ◼ ► - I would love somebody to send me an example where they can find a place that it breaks.
01:01:30 ◼ ► I just can't find a place. I mean, there's places to look for are like sort of like where
01:01:35 ◼ ► chroma is pushed too far. So let's say red tail lights on a car can that get like the color clips
01:01:43 ◼ ► instead of maybe the exposure, right? Like that can happen, but I haven't made it happen in this
01:01:49 ◼ ► example. In video I can do that, but the JPEG XL raw stuff has looked completely perfect to me.
01:01:55 ◼ ► - Yeah, it kind of feels though that Apple has sort of crossed paths in an awkward way on these
01:02:04 ◼ ► file formats where I guess it was like four years ago or so when they switched to, when they added
01:02:11 ◼ ► the heat as an option and it was on by default and they call that more efficient in their settings
01:02:17 ◼ ► parlance. And that's what iPhones shoot by default when you're not shooting pro raw, when you're
01:02:22 ◼ ► shooting consumer compressed photos, if you choose more efficient, you get heat. And that's where you
01:02:31 ◼ ► get what we just talked about where when you share an export, it has to convert to JPEG for universal
01:02:43 ◼ ► natively and it's JPEG files on in this storage. And there's no conversion necessary to share in
01:02:52 ◼ ► a compatible format, but they're bigger. But where they've crossed paths is with the new photographic
01:03:00 ◼ ► styles. You only get those when you're shooting heat. If you have your iPhone, and this is
01:03:06 ◼ ► definitely, I think I mentioned it with Nilay on the show, but anybody out there who's, if you
01:03:10 ◼ ► didn't get your iPhone 16 yet, and now you have it and you're still confused why you don't see the
01:03:17 ◼ ► new photographic styles when you're shooting, it's almost certainly because you're shooting
01:03:22 ◼ ► more compatible, which is a reasonable nerdy thing that like people who listen to this podcast
01:03:28 ◼ ► might have chosen a few years ago, right? Like I spent the money to get the one terabyte iPhone,
01:03:33 ◼ ► so I don't care about the compression efficiency. I'll just shoot in the more compatible format. And
01:03:39 ◼ ► I still have most of the space on my iPhone is freely available. But now you don't get this
01:03:46 ◼ ► awesome new photographic styles feature, which I think is so good that I almost feel like they
01:03:52 ◼ ► should have taken away the shoot JPEG. Sure. Yeah. It could go away. I don't, I was about to agree,
01:03:59 ◼ ► but maybe not. I'm sure there's people out there that have a good reason for the JPEG, but I know
01:04:03 ◼ ► what you mean. And the same thing will actually happen with the JXL thing that it's not fully
01:04:08 ◼ ► supported. Chrome is the big holdout. Google's not doing it yet. So it wouldn't solve everything, but.
01:04:14 ◼ ► Right. So if you have, but if you have a JXL file and you put it on a webpage, like Safari will
01:04:19 ◼ ► actually render it. Oh yeah. So it does have wide support. Like all the whole Mac ecosystem already
01:04:25 ◼ ► fully supports JXL. And I know that some websites, so the guardian has already switched over to
01:04:41 ◼ ► that we're going to make it's cheaper for us to make that choice on the fly than to do the
01:04:46 ◼ ► other one. So. Wow. That's fascinating. I mean, I really think this is going to be, obviously format
01:04:54 ◼ ► wars are always a bit of a, are a tough thing. And the big problem is Google. They, I'm forgetting
01:04:58 ◼ ► the name of their AVI. They have WebP too. Yeah. Which I think is part of the same format. I
01:05:03 ◼ ► followed the Google one a little less closely, but it does have more limitations. It's meant to make
01:05:08 ◼ ► things as small as possible for JPEG XL. It supports more of this like huge file sizes and
01:05:15 ◼ ► lossless and more big stuff as well. It scales further. So I was talking about the DNG switch
01:05:22 ◼ ► to a lossy. I just want to make sure it's clear that you need to actually edit DNG files to see
01:05:27 ◼ ► the benefits of the raw. If you just shoot raw and then post from your phone immediately or
01:05:33 ◼ ► airdrop it or whatever, it's using a little JPEG that is like sidecard into the DNG. And people
01:05:40 ◼ ► are basically just getting a normal iPhone process photo. It doesn't look like a raw file.
01:05:51 ◼ ► Apple should have waited for JPEG XL and kept the iPhone on JPEG for a few more years and then just
01:06:01 ◼ ► switched to JPEG XL and done all this. But now I feel like it's too late. I don't know. I mean,
01:06:08 ◼ ► yeah, we'll find that. I mean, all this stuff is, we all know Apple's slow. Well, I guess sometimes
01:06:14 ◼ ► slow, sometimes fast. Sometimes they push the change and sometimes they want to be the last
01:06:17 ◼ ► ones to change. But I do think that this is going to happen. So they managed the addition of switch
01:06:23 ◼ ► changing the default to Heek very well, where I'm sure 98% of iPhone users had no idea it even
01:06:30 ◼ ► happened and they don't really notice. And so they could switch to JPEG XL next year or two years from
01:06:37 ◼ ► now or something like that. I mean, they're very good at doing the hard work of making something
01:06:43 ◼ ► like that invisible to most users and for people who do care giving you control over it. So I guess
01:06:50 ◼ ► it could happen, but it just feels like a missed opportunity that they didn't just switch once.
01:06:57 ◼ ► It's like the measure twice, cut once adage for carpenters. Maybe they should have waited for
01:07:02 ◼ ► JPEG XL. Well, they also didn't know it was coming. So yeah, maybe. I don't know. I mean, I'm surprised
01:07:07 ◼ ► they went with the more closed format. That's the weird thing about Heef is like they paid a license
01:07:13 ◼ ► and anybody that wants to use it has to do that. And it just, whatever the big new solution is
01:07:18 ◼ ► going to be, it seemed like it always had to be more open. If there's that kind of restriction,
01:07:21 ◼ ► it's not going to be widely adopted. Yeah, it's maybe it's sort of, this is where Apple
01:07:27 ◼ ► having effectively infinite financial resources and not being afraid at all of proprietary
01:07:35 ◼ ► solutions was blinded. Like the licensing fee was like insignificant to them. And so they were like,
01:07:43 ◼ ► sure, let's just do it. Whereas maybe they should have been more cheap, worried about it and thought
01:07:51 ◼ ► we'll just wait for the JPEG XL because really Apple doesn't care about the licensing fee,
01:07:55 ◼ ► but lots of other companies do. And that's why Heek isn't widely supported. And so they shouldn't
01:08:00 ◼ ► have been worried about from their own perspective. Do we care about this licensing fee? They should
01:08:05 ◼ ► have been thinking, well, we don't care about it, but the rest of the world will. And so this format
01:08:11 ◼ ► is never going to replace JPEG and place JPEGs place in the world. Whereas it seems like if
01:08:18 ◼ ► anything's ever going to replace JPEG, it's going to be JPEG XL. It seems like it has the best chance
01:08:22 ◼ ► of doing it ever. And it's got the momentum as impossible as it ever seems because these new
01:08:28 ◼ ► formats pop up every couple of years and most of them never really take off. But Ping did right.
01:08:35 ◼ ► PNG, you know, was like, Hey, there's so many problems with the GIF format. I mean, it's limited
01:08:42 ◼ ► to 256 colors. I mean, that's just stop right there. I mean, that's made sense in the eighties,
01:08:49 ◼ ► right. It gives it a look, but, and JPEG isn't good for lots of things and doesn't support
01:08:54 ◼ ► transparency, right? I mean, huge problems with a world where the only image formats for the
01:08:59 ◼ ► internet were JPEG and GIF. So it kind of makes sense that Ping did succeed. It was open. It was,
01:09:07 ◼ ► it is good. And it solved actual problems that the existing formats didn't have. And I think JPEG XL
01:09:13 ◼ ► has all those same qualities. It's open. It solves real problems. There's one feature about it too,
01:09:25 ◼ ► J XL, you can do basically a one-to-one conversion where absolutely nothing is lost and you get like
01:09:31 ◼ ► a 20% efficiency gain. And you can also bring it back to regular JPEG without a recompression
01:09:37 ◼ ► and without any loss of quality. That's incredible. Yeah. The whole plan was, this was the whole plan
01:09:44 ◼ ► behind it, right? Like it's really well thought out in terms of these, these steps forward. So,
01:09:49 ◼ ► I mean, I'm excited for like image formats have been a bit of a mess for a while. So I,
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01:13:08 ◼ ► So worth explaining, because I always get, in my reviews when I say this, I get a lot of comments
01:13:14 ◼ ► like professionals use professional cameras. What are you talking about? Shooting on iPhone doesn't
01:13:17 ◼ ► make any sense, which obviously I understand where that's coming from. So the thing is that
01:13:22 ◼ ► the industry has just really shifted over the last few years. And there are a lot of professionals
01:13:26 ◼ ► that wouldn't recognize what I'm saying. Olivia, I don't know what you mean, and I work in the
01:13:30 ◼ ► industry. The thing that's happened is that a lot of commercials are social first. The huge budget
01:13:37 ◼ ► spend is on the social campaign, and it has higher conversions than the TV campaign. Last year, our
01:13:43 ◼ ► primary commercial client that we were shooting throughout the year was shot on a Canon C70,
01:13:49 ◼ ► like a big chunky cinema camera with a big gimbal. And that would end up being more of a regular ad
01:13:57 ◼ ► and being on their TVs in-store and stuff like that. Now, this year, our biggest clients,
01:14:02 ◼ ► which all of a sudden, it looks like there's going to be more and more of it, were shooting
01:14:05 ◼ ► on the iPhone commercial, like an ad that's going to be run as a social ad later, where they put
01:14:13 ◼ ► money behind it on Instagram and TikTok. That should not be shot on a big camera, in my opinion,
01:14:20 ◼ ► because you can see it. It's so much more work to make a big camera look like an iPhone
01:14:25 ◼ ► than to make an iPhone look amazing, especially now that it shoots log. So if you're shooting
01:14:30 ◼ ► vertical first, and it's meant to feel native to the platform, there's no reason, in my opinion,
01:14:35 ◼ ► to be using the bigger camera. You can rig out an iPhone as much as you want. The USB-C,
01:14:40 ◼ ► like you were saying, has been a huge benefit to us. So we've just discovered that is a really
01:14:46 ◼ ► underserved market. A lot of filmmakers want to keep making cinematic. If you look at commercials
01:14:52 ◼ ► closely, the filmmaking is usually actually quite beautiful. It's a real cinematographer in there
01:14:56 ◼ ► that understands lighting and color and lensing, and it looks good. And they want to keep making
01:15:07 ◼ ► that doesn't connect as well. It doesn't convert as well. So we've just been sort of targeting
01:15:12 ◼ ► this look. We'll make an ad that looks more native to the platform, looks a bit more like it was
01:15:16 ◼ ► created by a real person. So that's the reason that the iPhone's really become like we're
01:15:22 ◼ ► shooting on it all the time right now. And then as a side benefit, you can cut it into certain
01:15:29 ◼ ► other shots in a bigger video. If it's like, oh, well, the stabilization and the size are just
01:15:34 ◼ ► worth shooting on the smaller format for a couple shots, it'll sit nicely. There's not a lot of
01:15:50 ◼ ► intuitively, I want to say that for any camera still is easier than video because video is really
01:16:00 ◼ ► just 24 or 30 or 60 or now 120 frames of still shot really fast in real time, plus recording
01:16:09 ◼ ► sound. And so, duh, for any camera, shooting a still should be easier and any camera should
01:16:17 ◼ ► probably be better at shooting still than video. But counterintuitively, what you're saying is
01:16:23 ◼ ► in a commercial context, and I don't mean shooting commercials, but just commercial photography,
01:16:28 ◼ ► professional photography, it's more likely to use an iPhone to shoot video than to shoot still.
01:16:33 ◼ ► That if you're shooting still images for a print ad, you're almost certainly not going to use an
01:16:39 ◼ ► iPhone. You're going to use a superior camera with bigger, better lenses and bigger sensors.
01:16:45 ◼ ► But it's video that's actually more likely to be used for a commercial context. Probably true for
01:16:52 ◼ ► Apple itself. I think the only commercials or ads that Apple runs that are shot on iPhone are the
01:16:58 ◼ ► actual shot on iPhone campaign by consumers. Yeah, that's true. I don't think they're shooting their
01:17:03 ◼ ► web assets on an iPhone and there's no good reason. There's no reason to. It would be a worse
01:17:10 ◼ ► result and a bigger challenge and nobody would really care, I don't think. If they take out
01:17:15 ◼ ► the back cover ad on The New Yorker is, I don't know, but I'm sure I'll bet one of them is going
01:17:22 ◼ ► to be an iPhone 16 ad soon. That back cover photo is not shot on iPhone. But what does Apple use now
01:17:29 ◼ ► to shoot all of its keynote presentations? They use the iPhone. I mean, now part of that for Apple
01:17:34 ◼ ► is to be able to say we shot it on iPhone. I think dogfooding it is like the really big part of it.
01:17:41 ◼ ► Both marketing, that is good, which especially on the first time they did it, it was this huge,
01:17:45 ◼ ► everybody's talking about it. Yeah, we won't talk about it so much going forward, but it's how they
01:17:50 ◼ ► learn what it's like to push this phone to the limit. And I've talked to some people that have
01:17:55 ◼ ► worked on that and I've dissected every single frame in the behind the scenes, which I really
01:17:59 ◼ ► appreciate that they do those behind the scenes. And it's clearly it's so they, you have to use it
01:18:05 ◼ ► this aggressively to find all of the flaws and faults and like, Oh, here, you know, we ran into
01:18:11 ◼ ► this, so we need to make it better. And clearly Apple's been going through all that. That's why
01:18:15 ◼ ► they did Final Cut camera as well, which is like an interesting professional versus consumer
01:18:20 ◼ ► relationship. But they're like, we're not going to make the camera app pro. We're going to build a
01:18:24 ◼ ► pro camera app, which I will say, it's still not at the point that it's, I don't think it's better
01:18:30 ◼ ► than Blackmagic camera right now for like, that's what I think most pros are still using. Cause it
01:18:35 ◼ ► just has a lot more features, but, but yeah. It's what, but filmic used to be the go-to one
01:18:42 ◼ ► and it seems like filmic sorta, but didn't, they got acquired by the dirt bag. Good people like
01:18:49 ◼ ► guys. Exactly. Yeah. Like great team worked so hard and innovated a lot of the stuff and they,
01:18:55 ◼ ► yeah, they got bought out right at the wrong time, just as log was, they had done their own log
01:18:59 ◼ ► format within filmic, but yeah, they just, they couldn't last long enough. Unfortunately,
01:19:06 ◼ ► I think it's the same. I it's either the same dirt bags who bought Evernote and ruined it or
01:19:12 ◼ ► that would happen to Evernote. Yeah. Same thing where they got bought. It might be a different
01:19:17 ◼ ► gang of private equity dirt bags, but this whole scheme of wall street dirt bags who buy companies
01:19:25 ◼ ► and then leverage them with debt and do terrible things like just Jack up the prices and squeeze
01:19:32 ◼ ► the customers who aren't going to leave until they abandon ship. And then just to have the
01:19:37 ◼ ► company declare bankruptcy and move on to another acquisition that they then leverage up with debt.
01:19:43 ◼ ► And it's also, I think what happened to Toys R Us. Yeah. It's a very sad, I've seen it myself too.
01:19:56 ◼ ► but that I think Danny Boyle's the director of, or I forget who's the director years later.
01:20:03 ◼ ► Yeah. Yep. So 28 years later is in the, it's kind of, I don't know where they're going to go,
01:20:10 ◼ ► cause I heard that there's a next one, but it's the, the original was 28 days later than there
01:20:14 ◼ ► was 28 weeks later. And now they're coming back with 28 years later, it's a zombie apocalypse
01:20:22 ◼ ► franchise. And I loved it. I haven't why. And I've been, and now that I know a new one's coming,
01:20:28 ◼ ► I want to rewatch the first two, but the gimmick is, and it's such a clever gimmick. And I'm sure
01:20:33 ◼ ► when 28 days later came out, I'm sure everybody in the whole horror movie industry immediately
01:20:39 ◼ ► is like, I can't believe I didn't think of that. It's what if the zombies can move really fast?
01:20:44 ◼ ► Not just the zombies don't move real slumbering slow, like every other zombie we ever made,
01:20:51 ◼ ► but they run, they're super fast. What if the zombies are fast? What a concept. There you go.
01:20:57 ◼ ► That should have been the title zombies, but fast. Yeah. That is like the legendary type of
01:21:03 ◼ ► elevator pitch where I'm sure somebody pitched a studio executive with two sentences. What if
01:21:13 ◼ ► I'm somebody that actually doesn't like, I don't like horror movies. I don't really watch them,
01:21:16 ◼ ► but I saw that at the time and it had such a huge impact to me. I love the first 20 days later,
01:21:21 ◼ ► you know, we were talking about independent filmmaking earlier. It is one of the perfect
01:21:27 ◼ ► examples of like stretching a budget, making a lot out of something small and just good ideas,
01:21:39 ◼ ► how far it can take you. Yeah. So the what's leaked is that the upcoming 28 years later
01:21:46 ◼ ► sequel in the franchise is apparently shot using iPhones as cameras. Reaction to this was,
01:21:56 ◼ ► you know, this, there have been feature films shot on iPhones. Soderbergh shot one. I forget what it
01:22:02 ◼ ► was called. It was one of like a lesser Soderbergh movie, but even his worst movie that I've ever
01:22:08 ◼ ► seen is a very good movie. So it was fine, but I'm drawing a blank on the title of which one.
01:22:19 ◼ ► even though he's Steven Soderbergh, he wanted to shoot like a low budget movie and they shot the
01:22:25 ◼ ► whole thing on iPhone 11 or something like that. And if you watch it now, it looks very shot on
01:22:30 ◼ ► iPhone. Yeah, it does. I remember at the time it was like fine, but didn't keep me from enjoying
01:22:35 ◼ ► the movie. But 28 years later is like a big budget $75 million horror movie. They're not shooting on
01:22:42 ◼ ► iPhones for budgetary reasons. So why do you think they're shooting on iPhones? Well, my first
01:22:47 ◼ ► reaction was that this makes up makes a lot of sense that if you want to use the camera as a
01:22:52 ◼ ► storytelling method, which was part of the original one, I'm sure in their camera choice
01:22:58 ◼ ► of using a digital camera that has lower dynamic range and looks more like home video it looks like
01:23:04 ◼ ► but it looks more like a documentary in a way right like it's not a photo documentary that
01:23:07 ◼ ► movie but it gives that feeling of like this is news this is real and our current vernacular of
01:23:15 ◼ ► storytelling is iPhones right that that's like I was saying it's becoming a big part of even like
01:23:20 ◼ ► news coverage like they'll just send a journalist to do reporting with the tripod and a microphone
01:23:26 ◼ ► and they're talking to their iPhone so shooting in that style will communicate this same feeling that
01:23:34 ◼ ► we had back I don't know how long ago that was 20 years ago whatever when the first movie came out
01:23:38 ◼ ► like that this is being captured by real people that are just observing from a distance the thing
01:23:44 ◼ ► that threw me off a little was in the behind the scenes that it leaked but in a way also we don't
01:23:49 ◼ ► it was like one image and we don't even know was that from that movie what's confusing about it is
01:23:54 ◼ ► that they were adding lensing to it right like they had the typical like panavision panamorphic
01:23:59 ◼ ► or whatever on the front so it looks like this huge box and that I don't know why they would
01:24:04 ◼ ► do that because now your image is basically going to look like any other camera which is amazing for
01:24:09 ◼ ► the iPhone it can just be the brains of your camera and match up with something more professional
01:24:15 ◼ ► but now you're just sort of making it inconvenient for your camera crew and you know you have a
01:24:21 ◼ ► little less quality for the colorist and so I don't know if I imagine they won't use it the
01:24:27 ◼ ► lenses for everything but if you have that shallow depth of field and stuff it'll just look like a
01:24:32 ◼ ► normal camera really so I think it'd be more interesting if they lean into the iPhone lenses
01:24:37 ◼ ► more I think there's only one example in Apple's keynotes where they were using panavision lenses
01:24:44 ◼ ► and everything else is basically shot on the 1x main camera of the iPhone because it's got the
01:24:50 ◼ ► biggest sensor right yeah it makes sense for Apple to go to extraordinary lengths and cost to shoot
01:24:59 ◼ ► their whole keynotes with the iPhone because they're the only company that really benefits
01:25:03 ◼ ► from being able to say yeah this beautiful keynote that looks like the highest of high-end
01:25:09 ◼ ► productions production value wise was all shot on iPhones it app Apple's the one selling iPhone so
01:25:15 ◼ ► it's aspirational to say that even if there's expensive super expensive lighting rigs and a
01:25:23 ◼ ► crew of 40 people and all this stuff that money can buy on a shoot big cranes and if they need
01:25:30 ◼ ► to put another like you said like a panavision super expensive movie lens in front of the iPhone
01:25:38 ◼ ► to get a certain shot or something like that and it would be easier if they just shot on I don't
01:25:44 ◼ ► know a red or a canon cinema camera or something like that but Apple you could see why it's in
01:25:49 ◼ ► their interest to be able to say the whole thing was shot on iPhones why would a motion picture do
01:25:53 ◼ ► it I my guess is that they are looking that this is my guess is that 28 years later is looking for
01:25:59 ◼ ► a shot on iPhone look sort of I I don't know the premise of the movie is has not leaked and that
01:26:08 ◼ ► maybe what we saw from that leaked image yes they put like a camera or a pro lens in front of the
01:26:16 ◼ ► iPhone but maybe not to give it a pro look it's for some other reason and that the footage is
01:26:21 ◼ ► still supposed to look like found footage or something like that I just hope we get a detailed
01:26:26 ◼ ► behind the scenes when the movie comes out I want to break down or to get to get the cinematographer
01:26:34 ◼ ► topic the goofiest take that I still see all the time is oh they say shot on iPhone but
01:26:40 ◼ ► look at all this gear they're using look at the crew I'm like right do you think because you're
01:26:45 ◼ ► using a phone now you're gonna hand hold it and turn off the lights and just like not run a
01:26:51 ◼ ► regular set that no a movie set works a certain way and you're gonna fire the actors because
01:26:57 ◼ ► they're getting paid too much to be shot on it like I don't know where you would draw this line
01:27:01 ◼ ► that it's only fair to call it shot on iPhone if it's completely amateur hour that it's so strange
01:27:09 ◼ ► to me I mean obviously if it's shot on an Alexa you don't need to make any qualifying statements
01:27:15 ◼ ► like it that's the camera so it was shot on it right and they'll even the people who want to
01:27:20 ◼ ► make that argument will even point to the lighting rigs and stuff like that and be like look they
01:27:25 ◼ ► have all these you know like I've seen that criticism with Apple where there's the behind
01:27:28 ◼ ► the scenes footage and lots and lots of lights behind Tim Cook at night time on Apple Park's
01:27:34 ◼ ► campus or whatever and it's yeah but even with a $50,000 cinema camera they still have expensive
01:27:41 ◼ ► lights like or imagine if this was still live keynotes on stage they'd still have all the
01:27:46 ◼ ► expensive lights on stage and would you call it cheating then no they're stage lights yeah it I
01:27:51 ◼ ► I don't get that criticism either I I don't know it's dismissive of something that it just ought
01:27:56 ◼ ► not be dismissed you can say yeah you're never going to shoot pro log footage as a consumer sure
01:28:04 ◼ ► most people aren't going to do that but it's not fair to say that if you were going to that that
01:28:09 ◼ ► the only fair way to do it is with one person holding the iPhone in their hands without any
01:28:15 ◼ ► other equipment or lighting just shooting it like a parent on vacation or at the first day of
01:28:22 ◼ ► kindergarten shooting the kids in class oh can it that reminded me of a tip can I throw in right
01:28:27 ◼ ► here that I think a lot of people would love is there's a few different apps and I'm not going to
01:28:32 ◼ ► like pitch any particular one keynote can do it Blackmagic can do it where you can turn on Apple
01:28:38 ◼ ► log and turn on a lot and have it record into the file and then save it out as a regular HEVC
01:28:45 ◼ ► H.265 like a compressed format but you're getting all of the benefits of log so you're stripping
01:28:50 ◼ ► away that over sharpening that video usually does and you're basically getting a fully color graded
01:28:57 ◼ ► log equivalent final video so that's what I did on my review this is my first year I did my iPhone
01:29:03 ◼ ► review shot on iPhone because of the log because of iPhone I shot on the iPhone 15 pro and it I've
01:29:09 ◼ ► shot some YouTube videos on iPhone before and I just it never looked good enough it always like
01:29:13 ◼ ► this looks like iPhone exposures jumping around it looks weird just switching over to log means that
01:29:18 ◼ ► the tone mapping is turned way down like we were talking about before with photos and sharpening is
01:29:24 ◼ ► reduced everything looks much more organic so if regular people that don't want to mess around with
01:29:28 ◼ ► color grading you don't have space for ProRes on your phone you can just bake the LUT right on top
01:29:35 ◼ ► of the the log and get what's going to look as good as 28 days later you just want to have all
01:29:40 ◼ ► that flexibility of color grading it afterwards but it can look as beautiful and to me that's
01:29:45 ◼ ► kind of going to be the future of like if I was shooting at home videos that you want to just be
01:29:49 ◼ ► perfect normal people can get perfect looking video uh pretty easily now which is uh just
01:29:57 ◼ ► amazing to me yeah and I think that's gonna yeah using Kino you can do this K-I-N-O that's exactly
01:30:04 ◼ ► yeah from the makers you need at least a 15 pro or 16 pro there's the only ones that will work on
01:30:09 ◼ ► because it needs to support Apple log and inside the app it's like the app is viewing the log and
01:30:14 ◼ ► putting a a conversion LUT that gives you that film look on top of it and then it saves it out
01:30:19 ◼ ► and yeah Kino does it really easily Blackmagic does it as well you just have to dig into the
01:30:23 ◼ ► settings a little further yeah I haven't really used Kino much but I love just flipping through
01:30:29 ◼ ► the styles you've got one what's yours called mine's Stahlman film 3 and then yeah I mean
01:30:34 ◼ ► Adamo Sigur the Sandwich has one as well Sandwich has one so yeah yeah multiple guests that trick is
01:30:40 ◼ ► adding it on to the log that's when it's like beautiful it really steps it up there all right
01:30:47 ◼ ► last topic I have is this I think that's what they're calling spatial audio but it's this
01:30:51 ◼ ► the feature when you're shooting video now and they've added microphones to the 16 pro this is
01:30:58 ◼ ► I think 16 pro exclusive I don't think you get this on the regular 16 right yeah no it seems
01:31:04 ◼ ► like it's not there but you get they call it the options they're standard which the audio just
01:31:12 ◼ ► sounds like it always has when you shoot videos in frame where this it seems magic I don't know
01:31:19 ◼ ► it's like somehow they are determining what's in the frame of the image and trying dialing and only
01:31:28 ◼ ► the sound coming from the typically people you would think talking subjects in frame studio which
01:31:35 ◼ ► is sort of trying to simulate more of I guess a podcast sound right like that you're recording
01:31:41 ◼ ► like we are here talking into a studio sure smb yeah and and then the other one is what they call
01:31:49 ◼ ► it cinematic which is sort of how would you describe it what's the the trick with cinematic
01:31:55 ◼ ► I think with cinematic they're taking the mix of like they're doing voice isolation so now they've
01:32:00 ◼ ► got a track that's like here's the voice just clean and now we add underneath a little audio
01:32:05 ◼ ► bed of the background sound but the voice is brought forward a lot and you still can hear the
01:32:10 ◼ ► background it's not reduced entirely but it is minimized so just which is what you would do with
01:32:17 ◼ ► a movie you'd have a boom mic over the actor so that you only hear the actor and then the audio
01:32:23 ◼ ► production team would go and record the street separately and then you'd mix them together
01:32:27 ◼ ► afterwards and I think that's the goal with the the cinematic but you can get this with any video
01:32:33 ◼ ► you shoot with the iphone so what I think yeah and okay well there's a few things here with I think
01:32:39 ◼ ► they actually didn't add any mics I was trying to figure this I forgot to go and deep dive this
01:32:42 ◼ ► actually but I think it's just improved mics in the same way they added like the studio quality
01:32:47 ◼ ► ones to macbooks while we go to the macbook pros which was a huge improvement like it really you
01:32:51 ◼ ► could hear the difference then and I haven't done the real that reminds me I gotta do the real test
01:32:56 ◼ ► like does it sound way better than the 15 now I didn't actually compare but they've said they've
01:33:00 ◼ ► improved the mics and the spatial audio that you mentioned that only means that it does the spatial
01:33:04 ◼ ► audio for the vision pro basically where you're getting more than stereo you're getting 360 you
01:33:10 ◼ ► know it's using the multiple mics to do like sort of a head profile so that audio wraps around you
01:33:16 ◼ ► and then these are called audio mix I believe audio and it yeah so last year they added voice
01:33:23 ◼ ► isolation a new voice isolation option into final cut they sort of had a dumb one before
01:33:29 ◼ ► they removed hum and stuff but it wasn't great this one was using machine learning and would
01:33:33 ◼ ► really take a voice and bring it forward like it it cuts all the background stuff out and I think
01:33:38 ◼ ► they are now applying that in phone to with a few different profiles set and I mean it it is amazing
01:33:51 ◼ ► and I did find some of them are a little overdone some of them can be a bit too aggressive on their
01:33:55 ◼ ► default setting and that was some of the responses to my examples in the video too you can just turn
01:34:01 ◼ ► this down too I think same with voice isolation final cut I usually turn it from 50 percent which
01:34:05 ◼ ► is the default down to 30 and it's a lot more seamless still does the job also most people's
01:34:12 ◼ ► examples including mine to show it off you go into a really noisy environment right you go towards
01:34:17 ◼ ► really loud and it's like it's still terrible art audio right like garbage in garbage out to some
01:34:22 ◼ ► extent so you still need to think about your environment when you record but it will improve it
01:34:28 ◼ ► tremendously it will do a lot with pretty mediocre audio yeah it is attacking a very practical
01:34:37 ◼ ► problem that people have right it is that when you're just standing on a street corner or
01:34:43 ◼ ► away from a city like on a hilltop but where there's wind there's that was a big one I think
01:34:49 ◼ ► that's actually maybe underrated as that could be the the bigger feature that nobody will notice
01:34:53 ◼ ► appreciate or even remember was added to the iphone 16 is the wind reduction is on automatically
01:35:00 ◼ ► so you don't need to go back in and make any changes later and it's really sort of shocking
01:35:04 ◼ ► that the difference it's doing that machine learning wind removal in real time you don't
01:35:09 ◼ ► need to apply it it's just that like the thing that you know sounds like plosives again uh it
01:35:15 ◼ ► gets cut out and it's like we don't think about it and all of a sudden it's just going to sound
01:35:19 ◼ ► better I mean that's those are the kind of changes I think actually have the biggest impact that
01:35:23 ◼ ► people just forget about later yeah you just take it for granted and it'll become the new normal but
01:35:27 ◼ ► it is been one of for obvious reasons it's just a telltale sign of amateur video that it's you know
01:35:36 ◼ ► not in a pejorative sense but just oh that's just someone who took out their iphone in a real world
01:35:41 ◼ ► situation and started recording and you hear all of this wind because it's here in the middle of
01:35:47 ◼ ► the city street and there's wind blowing down the street and it just that's just what you expect
01:35:53 ◼ ► video shot with yeah just start hit record and hold the phone up that's what you expect to hear
01:36:00 ◼ ► and now it's not there magically not there anymore you don't have to think about it right and it
01:36:07 ◼ ► doesn't magically make it sound like what you hear in a feature film or a professional tv show
01:36:15 ◼ ► when characters are on a city street no but it's way different than what you're used to
01:36:21 ◼ ► hearing from video that was shot on a consumer video camera out in a real world it's somewhere
01:36:27 ◼ ► in between how many tiktoks people watch a day that are people most tiktokers or instagram real
01:36:34 ◼ ► like social media creators they just put the phone down in front of them and talk to it they don't
01:36:37 ◼ ► set up mics typically and if all of a sudden that can sound 50 better without without buying an
01:36:43 ◼ ► external microphone which a lot of people never get around to doing that makes a real difference
01:36:48 ◼ ► for people that they can have a career uploading social media content and don't care about
01:36:54 ◼ ► filmmaking never want to learn about filmmaking they just they're doing it because their phone
01:36:57 ◼ ► made it easy for them and all of a sudden it can sound significantly better i mean that's the like
01:37:01 ◼ ► real impact same with when they added it to the macbook pros how many tv interviews like when the
01:37:07 ◼ ► news is i don't really watch these but when the news is on at the gym or whatever and i'm just
01:37:11 ◼ ► seeing like half of these interviews are remote like the half the show is shot on macbook pro
01:37:18 ◼ ► cameras and having that audio get significantly better is a huge change to all of the media out
01:37:25 ◼ ► there that's being captured on these especially iphones so i i think these small changes make a
01:37:30 ◼ ► huge difference kind of invisible difference to a lot of media we're consuming um every day i
01:37:36 ◼ ► notice it because i always notice production values and i always think at a meta level of
01:37:49 ◼ ► just in a snap changed the world is it instantly became permanently perfectly acceptable for people
01:38:00 ◼ ► appearing on cnn or msnbc or fox news or any professional cable news interviewed through
01:38:08 ◼ ► their macbook camera right it's during the covid lockdown yes it had to be that way and then it
01:38:15 ◼ ► seems like everybody was like you know what this is fine because it used to be pre-covid if you
01:38:19 ◼ ► were going to if if you're an expert on like me if somebody was like you should do you want to
01:38:26 ◼ ► come on cnbc and talk about the new iphones or whatever they would want you to go to a local tv
01:38:32 ◼ ► studio in the city where you live and appear in front of a professional screen yeah the national
01:38:39 ◼ ► networks had like partnerships with local tv studios in every city and i used to get those
01:38:45 ◼ ► offers to talk about iphones or something and i would a i would turn them down because usually
01:38:50 ◼ ► i was out in san francisco and to be on in the morning it would be like you'd have to go to the
01:38:54 ◼ ► tv studio in san francisco at four in the morning or something and i'd be like i'm not doing that
01:38:59 ◼ ► no way but now it's just perfectly acceptable and yeah like having better and yes the people just
01:39:07 ◼ ► have air pods in or you know and they're using the mic on the the mic and the camera that's just
01:39:12 ◼ ► built into their macbook and so getting better audio is huge because they would run it even if
01:39:18 ◼ ► you have an old macbook that doesn't have the studio quote-unquote studio mic feature and
01:39:23 ◼ ► another feature i didn't talk about i haven't seen anybody really go into but could be huge for this
01:39:28 ◼ ► production thing is the call recording that is just built into i think it's just ios 18 this is
01:39:33 ◼ ► an iphone 16 feature i mean i did some quick tests with it and phone call you could you can podcast
01:39:39 ◼ ► like that like a hundred percent call your friend talking to your phones like a normal phone call
01:39:45 ◼ ► and it would be a pretty good podcast recording because all of a sudden you're holding your phone
01:39:51 ◼ ► in the right place for a mic right because you're listening as long as you're not doing speakerphone
01:39:55 ◼ ► put it up to your ear the microphone is one or two inches from your mouth and the mics are great
01:40:01 ◼ ► and it records it i don't know i don't know if it's doing a double ender like how it's capturing
01:40:05 ◼ ► but it sounds as long as you're i mean for my test like this is the way to do remote interviews
01:40:11 ◼ ► to do just to capture audio from somebody that knows nothing on the other end they don't i don't
01:40:16 ◼ ► think they need ios 18 it just gives them like a little audio message saying this call is about
01:40:21 ◼ ► to be recorded now you suddenly have pristine radio quality uh audio captured from both sides
01:40:28 ◼ ► it's i think that's going to be really great for like podcasters news interviews that would be a
01:40:34 ◼ ► nice upgrade though if they made it smarter like next year where if both phones were on ios 19 or
01:40:40 ◼ ► whatever if it knows they're both on iphones yeah and then it does like a double ender in addition
01:40:47 ◼ ► to the permission prompt like hey this call is going to be recorded and then it would record
01:40:51 ◼ ► their end locally too and like send it to you you know i wonder what would happen if you did
01:40:56 ◼ ► that in the same room because there's like the voice the like echo cancellation too you could
01:41:01 ◼ ► probably just have a phone call in in in person and get pretty fantastic results yeah and the
01:41:07 ◼ ► other thing you've and i know i've seen you on threads recently calling this out i think you
01:41:11 ◼ ► even mentioned it in your iphone review too but it just in the context of these improved microphones
01:41:19 ◼ ► and blocking out the unwanted noise and with this argument of professionals don't use iphones as
01:41:26 ◼ ► cameras you have these shots i don't know what event you were at you're at some kind of red
01:41:30 ◼ ► carpet event and you just shot like a behind sort of a behind the scenes shot of oh look at all the
01:41:36 ◼ ► media people at this red carpet event they're all shooting off their phones all of them i couldn't
01:41:42 ◼ ► even i couldn't even see them so yeah in the shot it was the canadian country music awards
01:41:46 ◼ ► okay the event and i was trying to zoom in as quickly as i could just a few seconds just
01:41:51 ◼ ► to show every single iphone lined up around like i couldn't get them all i mean there's more than
01:42:00 ◼ ► you know some of them are radio stations which makes sense because like their platform becomes
01:42:04 ◼ ► social media they do all these like social media hits and then use the audio later i know i had a
01:42:10 ◼ ► few people message me from bigger from big media organizations afterwards being like oh yeah it like
01:42:15 ◼ ► they sent me behind the scenes especially one of them was from a very big media agency just rows of
01:42:22 ◼ ► rigged out iphones set to a vertical method with like grips on each side a wireless mic that is
01:42:29 ◼ ► mounted on top so that somebody could just grab it and they're like yeah we just swap these out all
01:42:34 ◼ ► day long there's like 50 of them and our crew runs around with them and this is how we shoot
01:42:38 ◼ ► all of the content and of course it is it's and i think that's kind of invisible to everybody
01:42:43 ◼ ► because they just kind of consume the content and don't think about how it was made but um this is
01:42:47 ◼ ► really ubiquitous like it won't make sense for say entertainment tonight to not use a big eng
01:42:55 ◼ ► camera of course that they should but there's a lot of examples where it's the amount of
01:43:00 ◼ ► content that news is creating and it's also like news is a bigger thing now like a lot of the
01:43:06 ◼ ► online portion of a lot of outlets is as big as what's being i mean what i can't i couldn't help
01:43:13 ◼ ► but think about while we're there i'm like i think the video we're making from this could have the
01:43:19 ◼ ► most people see it and we're just posting it to instagram and tik tok because it's not a huge news
01:43:25 ◼ ► story on tv it doesn't have a ton of tv viewership but we had a somewhat viral reel from it and that
01:43:31 ◼ ► happens all the time that the social media thing becomes the explosion that has 10 million views
01:43:37 ◼ ► whereas the local news i don't know how many people watch the news coverage of these events
01:43:47 ◼ ► i don't know i've ever been on a red carpet but i'm thinking of the hands-on area after the iphone
01:43:53 ◼ ► event which is this huge scrum and it is the of all the place the steve jobs theater is a
01:44:02 ◼ ► magnificent building and it always takes my breath away a bit it's like i've been there many times
01:44:09 ◼ ► now and every time i step in it's just one of those places that every time i step in it is
01:44:16 ◼ ► more impressive and inspiring than i recall it it's not oh yeah it's here again it's wow this
01:44:22 ◼ ► place is really something and the the most impressive is that space they reserve for the
01:44:28 ◼ ► hands-on area it's just but it's also it has magnificent light it is big it is spacious but
01:44:35 ◼ ► it is also cavernous because it is i don't know glass jar yeah it's 100-foot ceilings and it is
01:44:42 ◼ ► met it is entirely meant to look amazing it is not meant to sound good and yet you look around and i
01:44:49 ◼ ► was hanging around with um my friend o'malek and he shot a bunch of really cool i just linked to
01:44:54 ◼ ► it on daring fireball yesterday is behind the scenes black mostly black and white photos of
01:44:59 ◼ ► the thing but we were walking around and it's the increase in creators who are among the people
01:45:10 ◼ ► invited to the iphone event it's just very palpable it's you know and it's just the nature
01:45:15 ◼ ► of the way the media world has changed but i clearly you notice it in the hands-on scrum
01:45:21 ◼ ► because it's they're so crowded and so many people want to get not just get their hands on the
01:45:27 ◼ ► devices to see them but they want to shoot photos and video and stuff of them and the movement that
01:45:35 ◼ ► the switch towards the creators shooting using their phones to actually do the shooting instead
01:45:41 ◼ ► of a bigger standalone camera actually makes it much better because it's it it it fits with the
01:45:49 ◼ ► crowding it's this tiny little sliver of a camera instead of a big thing on somebody's shoulder
01:45:54 ◼ ► like it's a real difference when video first became a thing like i've been going to these
01:46:00 ◼ ► events long enough where i remember when there wasn't even there weren't really it was just tv
01:46:05 ◼ ► people shooting video and then when most many of the web publications started shooting video at
01:46:11 ◼ ► these events too it really was physically uncomfortable because the there'd be a camera
01:46:18 ◼ ► person and a talent person and the camera was big and on a shoulder often or if not it was still it
01:46:25 ◼ ► was in front of the the camera person and they needed space between the camera and the talent
01:46:33 ◼ ► and then there's the thing and so and it was always just a bit ugly because they're they just
01:46:39 ◼ ► it was sort of rude but it had to be because otherwise they wouldn't get the shot right and
01:46:44 ◼ ► so there's this space between the camera and the talent but the camera person is making sure nobody
01:46:51 ◼ ► walks in front of that space even though it's crowded and lots of people are there and now it's
01:46:57 ◼ ► the talent is the camera person it's the same person and the camera is so small that there's no
01:47:04 ◼ ► you fit more people it's really it's much more efficient but the change it is so fascinating
01:47:13 ◼ ► to watch just as somebody who's not me not shooting any video and not shooting social stuff
01:47:19 ◼ ► in the aftermath of it and i just sort of observe it it's super palpable but anything that would make
01:47:25 ◼ ► the audio better is incredible because it's just an acoustic nightmare shooting in there
01:47:31 ◼ ► it just is it's like shooting in an echo chamber have you ever observed the audio quality in the
01:47:36 ◼ ► briefing rooms just below that in the steve jobs theater building there's like the briefings you
01:47:41 ◼ ► go to afterwards those rooms have the best treatment i've ever heard you walk in and it's
01:47:47 ◼ ► just silent no air conditioning can't even hear your footsteps no like wow somebody thought about
01:47:53 ◼ ► this yeah they do calls from there and like they do yeah briefings and stuff yeah perfect and i'm
01:47:59 ◼ ► always very jealous of it yeah because i go and i get these briefings that are officially off the
01:48:06 ◼ ► record so there's no recording like in the but it's not just me talking to whatever team it's
01:48:12 ◼ ► usually me with a handful of other people like me and om were paired together for a bunch of them
01:48:17 ◼ ► this week or this month um so i'm not recording but i know from being in those rooms i see them
01:48:30 ◼ ► things that are recorded and it's so clear when i'm in there even though i'm not shooting because
01:48:36 ◼ ► it's off the record it yeah it's and the lighting is amazing it's a tv studio but feels like a
01:48:42 ◼ ► normal office yeah they have this overhead lighting that is simulates sun sunlight it's it
01:48:49 ◼ ► makes you think oh is that like a skylight no it's not a skylight it's artificial but it
01:48:53 ◼ ► artificially simulating natural light but the acoustics are amazing and you're right there's
01:48:58 ◼ ► never even a whisper of air conditioning or what or anything like that because the other thing i'd
01:49:05 ◼ ► for example one of the briefings i had just this month was with the air pods team and they wanted
01:49:12 ◼ ► us they had us test the air pods for active noise cancellation and it's such a hard thing to
01:49:19 ◼ ► simulate so what they did is they had a couple home pods in the briefing room which were when
01:49:27 ◼ ► they started the demo were playing i forget if it was a subway or an airplane i think it was
01:49:32 ◼ ► an airplane they were simulating the noise inside an airplane cavern cabin but when you're thinking
01:49:39 ◼ ► about that you've got okay i've got these new air pods in and they're all hooked up to phones in
01:49:45 ◼ ► front of you and okay now turn on the the noise cancellation and now we're going to start these
01:49:51 ◼ ► home pods playing airplane noise and then they turn it off and you're really keyed into what you
01:50:03 ◼ ► absolutely nothing yeah it is like an anechoic recording studio yeah yeah it's like a recording
01:50:08 ◼ ► studio or an anechoic chamber or something it's wild very nice top notch but it makes me wonder
01:50:14 ◼ ► why the hell they built the observatory i think here's what i think i think they built the
01:50:27 ◼ ► which are downstairs behind the hands-on area i think when they have things that they invite
01:50:35 ◼ ► i don't know that i've ever been invited to apple park for something that wasn't related to an event
01:50:41 ◼ ► but i know they have things for some people whether they're in the media or they're analysts
01:50:52 ◼ ► to bring them into the steve jobs theater when there's nothing in the theater and there's nothing
01:50:57 ◼ ► in the hands-on area just to bring them into those rooms so they build i this is why i think
01:51:02 ◼ ► they built the observatory so i think phil shiller was just like yeah so we've got some yeah here's
01:51:07 ◼ ► some of the unused space in the area between the theater and the ring building we'll just build a
01:51:13 ◼ ► hobbit hole building just for nice meetings right where the whole point of the whole point of the
01:51:21 ◼ ► building is to bring non-apple people in media people whoever else bring them into a nice
01:51:28 ◼ ► building and we don't have to worry about any of the security related stuff of bringing them
01:51:33 ◼ ► into the actual ring building i believe it yeah it's the benefits of having that unlimited apple
01:51:39 ◼ ► budget it's a really nice building too it's a shame that it was we weren't allowed to shoot
01:51:44 ◼ ► photos in there because it was i haven't seen it yet but yeah it's really nice of course anyway
01:51:50 ◼ ► that's everything for me tyler it was absolutely a pleasure having you on and you've answered a
01:51:55 ◼ ► bunch of my questions so hopefully they answered a bunch of others yeah absolutely where people can
01:52:01 ◼ ► find your work if they're not familiar with it there's of course search search my name is a great
01:52:06 ◼ ► place to start tyler stallman with one l although probably with modern probably still comes out
01:52:12 ◼ ► they could add the extra l yeah it's very helpful that it's a different spelling tree because it
01:52:17 ◼ ► boosts my seo a lot is it yeah it probably does right yeah because it's so strange hearing my name
01:52:23 ◼ ► like here because it's not a very common name but i hear richard stallman referred to on podcasts
01:52:27 ◼ ► often but yeah that he's the more famous stallman but he has two l's and i got one so that helps
01:52:32 ◼ ► yeah that helps so yeah you could just search for tyler youtube.com slash tyler stallman i will link
01:52:40 ◼ ► to both of your iphone reviews the review of the iphone 16 and the kit recommendation of stuff you
01:52:46 ◼ ► have on your iphone and you're active on threads people can find you just by searching for your