00:00:22 ◼ ► the Ricky Benchman and Upgrade Draft Champion, and co-founder, Challenge Champion, and champion
00:00:29 ◼ ► in his own mind, Mr. Mike Hurley. Look at that, I mean, I like these extra accolades now that we
00:00:35 ◼ ► have Jason. Hello, Jason, it's a treasure to have you on this episode of Connected. And this is a
00:00:41 ◼ ► Steven-started episode, so I got to go first, but our sponsors this week, by the way, are NetSuite,
00:00:46 ◼ ► Ecamm, and, uh, Celtrios? You nailed it, in one. All right. I am the Ricky Benchman and Upgrade
00:00:53 ◼ ► Draft Champion, and co-relay co-founder, Challenge Champion, Mike Hurley, and I would like to
00:00:58 ◼ ► introduce Mr. Fitichi. Hello, Federico. Hello, I gotta say, I think I like the new guy better
00:01:03 ◼ ► than Steven, because he gave us the date. Give us the date, which was a useful bit of information,
00:01:09 ◼ ► you know? Yeah, see, this is funny, because I started doing the date on Upgrade, and Jason
00:01:14 ◼ ► protested initially, but I feel like now that maybe, maybe Jason has taken the date on as a
00:01:19 ◼ ► part of this. I don't know. It's, well, we now know that there are people who listen to old
00:01:24 ◼ ► episodes, and they get out of sync, and all that, so it's kind of good to remind them that
00:01:28 ◼ ► it was October 2024 when these people said these things. I started doing the date when we had that
00:01:34 ◼ ► episode of Upgrade, where we recorded in advance, and then Apple announced all of the availability
00:01:41 ◼ ► information for the Vision Pro. Oh, right, after we recorded. After we recorded. So then I was like,
00:01:47 ◼ ► okay, I want to start putting the date on these episodes. So I feel like I need to set the mood
00:01:58 ◼ ► computer-related secret? Darkest computer-related secret? Well, what I want to say is that I play
00:02:06 ◼ ► all my iPad games with the sound off. No, no, no. But for people, that would be, forget connectedpro.co,
00:02:12 ◼ ► for that, um, darkest computer-related secret. This is a safe space, we're not judging you.
00:02:17 ◼ ► The problem, Federico, is that I consume all of my dark secrets and release them on the internet
00:02:22 ◼ ► for content. I'm not sure there's anything left. I don't, I used to keep things scattered on my
00:02:30 ◼ ► desktop, but my desktop, Mac desktop is organized now. Okay, let me see if I got one for you.
00:02:37 ◼ ► Maybe like, what is the most expensive piece of hardware that you've used for a short period of
00:02:42 ◼ ► time and is now just on a shelf? Well, you really want him to say Vision Pro, huh? No, no, no,
00:02:49 ◼ ► we're gonna talk about that later. An older thing, an older thing. Like, I will go with mine,
00:02:54 ◼ ► I have an M1 iMac that I've just put in a box and put in the corner, and like, I never get rid
00:02:59 ◼ ► of it or anything. That thing should sit in there. I used it for not even a year, I think, and then
00:03:03 ◼ ► now it's just got put away. Yeah, okay, I've got a lot of, a lot of, uh, camera-related stuff. Like,
00:03:08 ◼ ► I bought a whole teleprompter rig that I've literally never used, um, for me to do videos
00:03:15 ◼ ► with a script on a teleprompter. I, I've not used that at all. There's probably a bunch of other
00:03:21 ◼ ► stuff like that where there's, like, I bought mounts for, like, putting cameras on the wall
00:03:25 ◼ ► or the ceiling or whatever, and then I, I look at it and I say to myself, nah, I just continue to
00:03:32 ◼ ► collect all that garbage. Yeah, there's a lot of that. I have some follow-up. The first piece comes
00:03:39 ◼ ► from Randall, who says, regarding the app icon's disappearing bug that Mike mentioned, you remember
00:03:44 ◼ ► my Photos app kept disappearing? Yes. Uh, Randall said, I've noticed that if I use Spotlight to add
00:03:50 ◼ ► an app to a home screen, it disappears from the home screen. However, if I drag it from the app
00:03:54 ◼ ► library, it remains, and this is exactly the case for me. So now it stays where it's supposed to.
00:04:00 ◼ ► Wait a second. Yeah. Something just dawned on me. Okay. But it's a, it's a bit of a stretch. Um,
00:04:09 ◼ ► do you happen to have any hidden home screen pages? Oh yeah. I wonder, because this is something
00:04:17 ◼ ► I noticed that probably changed in iOS 18. If, like, those icons are not actually disappearing,
00:04:23 ◼ ► they're moving to a page that it's not visible. Because sometimes when you drag an icon from
00:04:31 ◼ ► Spotlight, it's like actually moving an existing icon that's pre-existing on a different page.
00:04:39 ◼ ► I can't, I kind of would ask you to check your hidden pages and see if anything that's changed.
00:04:44 ◼ ► It doesn't look like it. I am looking at it now. Then it's a bug, then it's, then it's just a bug.
00:04:48 ◼ ► But it could be a bug that's related for people who do that, right? Who have like hidden home
00:04:53 ◼ ► screen pages. Maybe. That's just it. I have, it turns out I have three hidden home screen pages
00:04:59 ◼ ► that I didn't know were there. Yeah. That's good. That's great. I mean, if they're never visible.
00:05:06 ◼ ► They're hidden. If a home screen is hidden. Are they there? Does it matter if they're never visible?
00:05:11 ◼ ► Something like that. Peter says, "A big gratsi to Federico. Tichi Tabs has become my favorite app
00:05:18 ◼ ► of the year. I don't have the same needs as Federico. I downloaded the app mostly for the
00:05:22 ◼ ► Japes, but I ended up finding use for it that fits perfectly in my workflow. I am an avid language
00:05:28 ◼ ► learner and I, humble brag, and I used to always have the same online dictionaries open in Safari.
00:05:35 ◼ ► Now they can all live in Tichi Tabs and I can access them quickly from the widget on my home
00:05:39 ◼ ► screen." You see, there you go. Yeah. Changing lives valid use case. Yeah. Jason, do you have
00:05:45 ◼ ► six or seven websites? Do you have a collection of six or seven websites? I used to, I used to have
00:05:51 ◼ ► my, um, I'm a, I'm a big, uh, uh, what do they call it? They, do they call it the favorites bar?
00:05:58 ◼ ► I don't know. I'm a big favorites bar user. It's not a favibar. Where does this name come from?
00:06:06 ◼ ► Mike? It's never been used. It's never been used. Okay. It's me. We could do it now though. I mean,
00:06:13 ◼ ► we could start it. You could start the favibar movement right here. So I'm a big favibar user.
00:06:18 ◼ ► That's what I was saying. And, and this is, it used to be full of web pages. Um, but mostly now
00:06:27 ◼ ► it's like bookmarklets and stuff. I've got a little like folder full of, um, all the CMSs,
00:06:33 ◼ ► you know, and go to the incomparable or six colors or relay or, you know, whatever. I've got a big
00:06:37 ◼ ► folder full of those that are in the favibar. Nice. Okay. We're using it. All right, cool. But
00:06:43 ◼ ► most of my stuff, uh, and then there's pin tabs. I have pin tabs now for six colors, the incomparable
00:06:49 ◼ ► and my weather page, my weather station page, but all the stuff that used to be the regular
00:06:54 ◼ ► daily visits, like the six or seven websites. Um, a couple of years ago, I decided to, to go back to
00:07:01 ◼ ► RSS. Um, I actually use ReadKit, which every six months, I think, surely there's another RSS reader
00:07:08 ◼ ► that I would prefer to this. And I try them all again. And the answer is no, I still really like
00:07:12 ◼ ► ReadKit. And I'm using ReadKit for RSS as well as for all my newsletters, cause I use Feedbin.
00:07:19 ◼ ► So all of my newsletters are going in to, are getting forwarded to Feedbin. And then in the
00:07:24 ◼ ► morning when I wake up and I get my breakfast and all that, I use ReadKit to read my six or
00:07:29 ◼ ► seven websites and my six or seven newsletters. So that's what I'm, that's what I'm doing now.
00:07:35 ◼ ► It's always so fun when like someone mentions the name of an app and in my mind is like,
00:07:40 ◼ ► I've never heard of this app before in my life. No, I'm sure I have. I heard about it from Mac
00:07:44 ◼ ► stories. That's where I heard about it. We've got a quote here. Fedorico, the teacher from Mac stories,
00:07:48 ◼ ► if you use Feed Wrangler and have been looking for a desktop client, ReadKit is your best option.
00:07:54 ◼ ► Well, that's from many years ago. Many years ago, cause I'm not sure Feed Wrangler still exists
00:07:58 ◼ ► anymore. That's a quote for the ages. Okay, sure. This is what it's like, Fedorico. You do a website
00:08:07 ◼ ► for a long time and then people are like, oh, you wrote this. I get that occasionally. I was like,
00:08:11 ◼ ► Jason, you wrote this. Do you have an update on this? And I look at the story and I'm like, I have
00:08:14 ◼ ► no memory of this. The best one is like when you get a random email from somebody being like, hey,
00:08:19 ◼ ► do you still use ReadKit? And like the last time I reviewed, it was like in 2011. Like, I haven't
00:08:25 ◼ ► heard this name in a long time. No, send them to me. I use, I use ReadKit. And again, I get really
00:08:32 ◼ ► excited. I haven't tried, you know, some of the latest and greatest, but then I try them and I
00:08:36 ◼ ► think, yeah, I like the typography better or I like, it's got smart folders and I use that
00:08:40 ◼ ► sometimes. But mostly whatever reason on, and remember I'm reading on an iPad, a 13 inch iPad,
00:08:47 ◼ ► right? Like it's the one that fits the best, even though I, the great thing about using Feedbin is
00:08:52 ◼ ► that I could just go to any reader if I wanted to, but I'm still pretty happy with it. The one that,
00:08:59 ◼ ► an Apple intelligence feature I would like at some point, which they're never going to do,
00:09:03 ◼ ► but I would really like the ability to take the articles that are in my feed reader and write new
00:09:11 ◼ ► headlines that tell me what the actual article is instead of the bogus web headline that obscures
00:09:18 ◼ ► the meaning so that it will click. So basically a summary, right? So like an RSS that uses,
00:09:28 ◼ ► developers will be able to use that. That would be good, right? That like, instead of the similar to
00:09:33 ◼ ► the email, instead of the first few lines of the article, tell me what the article is actually
00:09:38 ◼ ► about. Yeah, I'll take that, right? Federico, I'm sorry, but Threads knows it has an engagement
00:09:45 ◼ ► problem and they're taking care of it. So you can say goodbye to all of your likes. Yeah, I mean,
00:09:58 ◼ ► We've seen an increase in engagement bait on Threads and we're working to get it under control,
00:10:03 ◼ ► says Adam Mosseri. He got you, man. He knew you were the last straw. All I wanted was to make
00:10:11 ◼ ► Apple people upset with my hot takes and they're taking those away from me. No more hot takes.
00:10:17 ◼ ► All right. There was also a note in our document that Stephen left that said check on bet. Mike
00:10:23 ◼ ► said no Google Pixel 9 comes with a thermometer. So this was something I said when the Pixel 8 came
00:10:30 ◼ ► out because it had a thermometer in it, which could only measure the temperature of objects.
00:10:34 ◼ ► And I think what I was saying is like every single year, Google seemed to add a feature that they
00:10:40 ◼ ► then remove the next year because it doesn't go anywhere. Turns out they kept it. Not only does
00:10:44 ◼ ► the Pixel 9 have it, you can now measure the heat of a person. So good work, Google. Man. Remember
00:10:52 ◼ ► Stephen? No. Those are good times. So you can find out if you're H-O-T-T-O-G-O by taking
00:11:00 ◼ ► good temperature. From G-O-O-G-L-E. H-O-T-T-O-G-O-O-G-L-E. If Javelin's looking to get that
00:11:12 ◼ ► bag, she could just Google the call. Super catchy. Federico, are you a fan of Chaperone?
00:11:20 ◼ ► I have no idea what it is. Oh, so she's like the hot music act of the time. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:11:28 ◼ ► If you don't know Hot To Go, like that song, you would like that song a lot. I only know the one
00:11:33 ◼ ► song. Good Luck Babe. Hot To Go is real good. Hot To Go, I'm gonna tell the story now really
00:11:41 ◼ ► fast, which is there's a running back for the the Cal Bears named Jaden Ott OTT and Cal Twitter,
00:11:49 ◼ ► for people who don't know, the Cal-Gorithm as they're called, of my fellow Cal fans. Okay,
00:11:55 ◼ ► so this is fun. I've been getting lots of questions, Snail Talk questions about the Cal
00:12:01 ◼ ► Twitter account that I don't really want to get into, so now you can do it. All the Cal Burners,
00:12:06 ◼ ► they're just like, they're doing memes, the meme game is huge, and people are discovering Cal
00:12:12 ◼ ► because they're in a new conference, and they realize that the, guess what, kids who go to
00:12:15 ◼ ► Berkeley are smart and funny, but they, not only did they write parody lyrics for Hot To Go,
00:12:23 ◼ ► but they hired a singer, a real singer, it's not an AI version of the song, they hired a singer
00:12:28 ◼ ► named Mickey, I think, from Sweden, who they found on some website where you can hire talent, right,
00:12:34 ◼ ► to do like freelance work, and they made OTT To Go for Jaden Ott, we got OTTT OGO, we've got Jaden
00:12:44 ◼ ► Ott To Go, and then somebody else in the Cal Twitter community made a music video of OTT To Go,
00:12:51 ◼ ► and that was like early in the week, and by the time Saturday rolled around and the the premiere
00:12:56 ◼ ► college football tv show ESPN College Game Day came to Berkeley for the very first time in like
00:13:01 ◼ ► 20 years they've never been to Berkeley, one of the few schools not to have ever been visited,
00:13:12 ◼ ► so like super meme game, just so great, and as a Cal fan of long-standing I was really proud of it,
00:13:18 ◼ ► but also as an old person I was excited that I actually got the reference to Chapel Rowan, so
00:13:23 ◼ ► yeah OTT To Go. This episode is brought to you by NetSuite. What does the future hold for business?
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00:15:02 ◼ ► netsuite.com/connected. Our thanks to NetSuite for their support of this show and Relay.
00:15:10 ◼ ► So, wild story, wild story that's happening right now. It appears multiple now, because me and Jason
00:15:18 ◼ ► spoke about this a little bit on upgrade on Monday, but by the time we're recording on Wednesday,
00:15:22 ◼ ► there are now multiple models of the new base level 14 inch MacBook Pro out in the world.
00:15:28 ◼ ► There have been a couple of different YouTubers that have made videos of these. They're both
00:15:38 ◼ ► Pros that are as of yet unreleased available online. I believe this is real. I've seen some
00:15:46 ◼ ► people saying things like the packaging is old. I think the packaging probably maybe isn't 100%
00:15:53 ◼ ► complete and like there's some weirdness going on here, but I believe that the computers themselves
00:15:58 ◼ ► are real and there seems to be some kind of leak from China to Russia and this is something that
00:16:04 ◼ ► Jason was saying. Well, Apple doesn't sell in Russia, so it makes sense that there might be
00:16:09 ◼ ► some kind of flow, but these ones they've gotten out maybe a little earlier than they would otherwise.
00:16:14 ◼ ► Somebody thought of Palit somewhere. Also, they're the low-end M4 versions, so they're probably the
00:16:20 ◼ ► ones that they made in advance because I assume they've got lots of M4s because they have the iPad
00:16:25 ◼ ► Pro, but they maybe aren't yet. All the stories suggest that the M4 Pro versions of all of these
00:16:33 ◼ ► products might be available in limited quantity or a little later. So part of that probably is you
00:16:40 ◼ ► start producing the M4 ones earlier and so yeah, I think this is true when there was a Palit or a
00:16:47 ◼ ► box or however they that just got scooped up by somebody and lost in transit and taken to Russia
00:16:53 ◼ ► and resold. Well, I was also wondering if this might be like a result of Apple trying to ship
00:16:59 ◼ ► more stuff on boats, like that maybe if they can get some stuff shipped out sooner, maybe they
00:17:05 ◼ ► would do that. I know that's the thing that they've spoken about. Also, how about this? How about the
00:17:11 ◼ ► idea that this only is news because it's a new product that hasn't been announced yet, but I
00:17:21 ◼ ► available in Russia, they just make some of them disappear from a warehouse in China and take them
00:17:28 ◼ ► to Russia. I'm not saying Apple, I'm saying like crime. The crime is like get me some Apple products
00:17:35 ◼ ► that I can resell in Russia because they're not sold there anymore and that they just happen to
00:17:39 ◼ ► snag a product that doesn't exist yet. So this made me think of like, so I've been seeing some
00:17:45 ◼ ► people, I've been seeing a lot of people say like this is maybe the biggest kind of product leak
00:17:51 ◼ ► as such or like early release or whatever you might want to call it since the iPhone 4 because
00:17:57 ◼ ► things don't really get out. I mean and of course this is absolutely in no world as monumental as
00:18:04 ◼ ► the iPhone 4, but I thought that it might be fun today to think to remember back to the iPhone 4
00:18:11 ◼ ► and Jason, I had some questions I wanted to ask you about specifically of this, but I want to
00:18:16 ◼ ► start by giving a timeline of how the iPhone 4 leak went down. So we go back to March of 2010,
00:18:23 ◼ ► an engineer at Apple named Gray Powell, which is a name just like seared into my memory at
00:18:29 ◼ ► this point, accidentally left a prototype of their iPhone 4 in a bar in Redwood City, California.
00:18:35 ◼ ► The phone was disguised with like a case to look like a 3GS, right? So they put like a big case on
00:18:41 ◼ ► it. In April of 2010, the lost iPhone prototype was found by a bar patron who realized it was
00:18:49 ◼ ► something special after seeing features like the new front-facing camera, I think also the retina
00:18:54 ◼ ► display it had, maybe they could tell that out, I don't know, but in April they sold it to Gizmodo
00:18:59 ◼ ► for $5,000. On April 19th, 2010, Gizmodo published an article that detailed the iPhone 4's design,
00:19:08 ◼ ► its features, they had pictures, they had videos, and this was obviously the first time that anybody
00:19:14 ◼ ► had seen it. It had a brand new design, right? So we'd gone from like the rounded phones, this was
00:19:18 ◼ ► like glass front and back with the stainless steel in the middle. It's like what an iPhone looks like
00:19:22 ◼ ► now, in fact, pretty much. I'm happy that this article is still on the Gizmodo website,
00:19:29 ◼ ► even though it's like a little janky, it is still there, and I found that I put it in the show notes.
00:19:33 ◼ ► On April 20th, the next day, Apple sent Gizmodo a formal request for the return of the device,
00:19:47 ◼ ► an authority body, they had like a strange name that I don't remember now, and I didn't
00:19:52 ◼ ► look it up, but it wasn't like the police, it was like some other police, like Silicon Valley police
00:19:57 ◼ ► or something, it had a name like that. Is there a Silicon Valley police? I'm gonna check this,
00:20:01 ◼ ► because it was weird. This is like the Fabi bar, okay. It's like the Fabi bar of police,
00:20:06 ◼ ► prompted. So Apple arranged this and sent them to the home of Jason Chen, the editor of Gizmodo.
00:20:16 ◼ ► They raided his home, confiscated his computers and other equipment as part of an investigation
00:20:22 ◼ ► into the incident. On May 16th, there was an email exchange between Steve Jobs and Chen that
00:20:30 ◼ ► was published. I want to read a quote, which I love this for what it is, but it's a vibe of a
00:20:38 ◼ ► time. "Steve Jobs, we're just doing what we can to try and make and preserve the user experience
00:20:48 ◼ ► we envision. You can disagree with us, but our motives are pure. By the way, what have you done
00:20:54 ◼ ► that's so great? Do you just criticize others' work and belittle their motivations?" I love how
00:20:59 ◼ ► he just like turns a sharp corner. This was the energy of those Steve Jobs email threads at the
00:21:05 ◼ ► time. Yeah, this is for sure. By the way, I've got the Fabi bar of police. It's REACT, it's a very
00:21:11 ◼ ► clever acronym, Rapid Enforcement Allied Computer Team. See, I knew it was like a weird, it was like
00:21:17 ◼ ► a weird thing. REACT, like the coding language? Sure, yeah. I mean, it's a acronym. Silicon Valley
00:21:25 ◼ ► police. If Steven were here, he would know like the space world is full of acronyms where somebody's
00:21:30 ◼ ► like, "Oh, we got to create a name for this space probe," and they get close and they just come up
00:21:34 ◼ ► with a word and then they insert sort of dumb words in to make it work. So, REACT, California
00:21:39 ◼ ► Task Force Commission to Investigate High-Tech Crimes, and Apple had a member on the steering
00:21:46 ◼ ► committee of the REACT task force. There you go. So that's how you get your friends, Silicon Valley
00:21:49 ◼ ► police, to go raid someone. And then in June of 2010, Apple announced the iPhone 4, and then in
00:21:54 ◼ ► July of 2011, the next year, this REACT police investigation concluded about any charges being
00:22:02 ◼ ► filed against Gizmodo or the individuals involved in selling the device. This was bananas. I
00:22:09 ◼ ► remember my first feeling about the iPhone 4 was that I thought it looked bad. I was like,
00:22:14 ◼ ► "That can't be real. It's ugly," was my initial thought. But that was just, you know, I think
00:22:20 ◼ ► that's the way a lot of these leaks go. You see a device and you're like, "That doesn't look good,"
00:22:23 ◼ ► and then when you see Apple's photos, you're like, "Oh yeah, it does look good." No, I remember
00:22:27 ◼ ► thinking that it looked great and very futuristic. I didn't like it. And I also remember the exact
00:22:33 ◼ ► moment when I saw the Gizmodo article appear on Twitter, because at the time, 2010, I just started
00:22:40 ◼ ► Mac stories, I spent, I don't even know how many hours, but I basically had Twitter always open,
00:22:47 ◼ ► always timeline streaming enabled. I think Tweety for Mac was around at the time. But yeah, I
00:22:56 ◼ ► remember this thing popping in and basically me going like, "What?" It was a crazy story. It was
00:23:03 ◼ ► like the talk for a couple of weeks. And especially after like with all the back and forth with Steve
00:23:10 ◼ ► Jobs getting involved and also like, no, it wasn't WWDC, but it was a late June event because Apple
00:23:16 ◼ ► used to announce iPhones in June. And I remember Steve Jobs sort of joking on stage being like,
00:23:46 ◼ ► - Like they didn't really have specific iPhone events then, right? Like I don't think it was,
00:24:02 ◼ ► and this is how I can tell that I have a clear memory of this is it's all about location. So
00:24:05 ◼ ► I was at a softball game, one of Jamie's softball games. I remember what park it was. Like I
00:24:11 ◼ ► literally remember that particular park in Terralinda that we took her to. And I saw this
00:24:17 ◼ ► thing on Twitter, presumably on my iPhone 3GS, I guess, right? Like, I mean, process of elimination,
00:24:23 ◼ ► it must have been. And I remember not believing it and then scrolling through the article and
00:24:29 ◼ ► thinking, "Oh no, this has got to be real. This has got to be it." Because it felt very
00:24:33 ◼ ► Johnny Ive to me. It felt very much like, you know, he was picking up kind of a Braun Shaver
00:24:40 ◼ ► kind of design cues with the flat metal sides and all of that. And I felt like, "Oh yeah,
00:24:45 ◼ ► this seems like it's a real thing." And it was. - What was your role at Macworld at the time?
00:24:53 ◼ ► - Did you have any, or like, do you have any kind of thoughts as the editor-in-chief of
00:25:04 ◼ ► this game, right? We did not consider ourselves the, you know, breaker of rumors and stuff.
00:25:12 ◼ ► And so, I mean, I'm sure we had a debate, which is, do we cover the fact that it leaked?
00:25:27 ◼ ► if I had been at a news source that was really trying to break news, which Macworld was not its
00:25:32 ◼ ► kind of bit, it would have been a different story, I suppose. But like, it was not really
00:25:42 ◼ ► when there was Macweek, as well as Macworld and Macuser, Macweek was the one that did that stuff,
00:25:48 ◼ ► right? They were the ones who broke news about unannounced products. And so they would have been
00:25:52 ◼ ► the ones to do it. And the Macworld and Macuser were sort of like, well, we're monthly and we're
00:25:56 ◼ ► kind of like at a little, we're not trying to break news. We don't fancy ourselves a newspaper.
00:26:14 ◼ ► I will disagree because I had been burned before. I think I've told this story on the show before.
00:26:24 ◼ ► In my first year of Mac stories, I was really basically throwing everything at the wall and
00:26:30 ◼ ► seeing what was sticking. And one of the things that I was doing was like completely disregarding
00:26:35 ◼ ► the NDA, regarding betas, Mac OS 10 betas and screenshots. And so I used to have articles with
00:26:43 ◼ ► like, mind you, like this was very different, right? There were no public betas. It was a
00:26:49 ◼ ► developer beta. There was an NDA screen that popped up, but like I didn't care. I was posting
00:26:54 ◼ ► screenshots, having roundups, whatever, until one day I noticed, well, why aren't the images
00:27:01 ◼ ► on this article about the latest Mac OS 10 beta working anymore? And so basically my hosting
00:27:09 ◼ ► provider had gotten an email, like a takedown request from Apple. I got myself a nice letter
00:27:17 ◼ ► from Apple's lawyers at the time, and that scared me for life. And so they lawyered the screenshots
00:27:33 ◼ ► Funny to remember that they used to do that, right? That like the beta was NDA'd. Because
00:27:37 ◼ ► then everybody will post screenshots and be like, somebody sent these to us. I'm like, okay,
00:27:42 ◼ ► whatever you say. Yeah, it got to the point where, I mean, as it usually happens with this,
00:27:46 ◼ ► where somebody who had the ability to post it and not get a takedown for whatever reason,
00:27:51 ◼ ► posted them. And then somebody else did it. I think one of the challenges about what Gizmodo
00:28:01 ◼ ► were scared, but they were also kind of like trying to find a way to say, no, no, we're going
00:28:05 ◼ ► to do this. But like you could have the thing and take pictures of it and write a report of it
00:28:17 ◼ ► They went down a whole bunch of paths here that were kind of a lot, but Apple to this day says
00:28:23 ◼ ► like, oh, well, you know, the public beta is coming out and we're going to give you a briefing
00:28:26 ◼ ► and we're going to talk about what's in the public beta. And keep in mind, everybody's already seen
00:28:30 ◼ ► it at WWDC, but they're like, you know, we want this to go out when the public beta goes out.
00:28:33 ◼ ► And like, it's weird because it doesn't really need to be that way, but there is some aspect
00:28:38 ◼ ► of it that is, yeah, but if you're playing ball with Apple and they're going to give you a
00:28:41 ◼ ► briefing and they're going to, you know, they're going to talk to you about it and they're going
00:28:44 ◼ ► to answer your questions and they'd rather those stories be embargoed until the public beta comes
00:28:49 ◼ ► out and you say, all right, like, okay, all right. In that case, I'll do it, but that's all that's
00:28:54 ◼ ► left, right? I mean, they know they used to stop us from live blogging events. They literally would
00:29:01 ◼ ► say no live blogging. And at that point, at some point it just got so, it was so porous that
00:29:06 ◼ ► there's no way that they could do that anymore. And they gave up. That's how it always ends up
00:29:10 ◼ ► happening is that they try to hold back the, the, the flood, but the dam bursts, like they can't
00:29:16 ◼ ► hold it back. And then they finally reluctantly give up. And like, you know, the reason that Steve
00:29:24 ◼ ► Jobs yelled at everybody to turn off their hotspots that one time is because Apple in an
00:29:32 ◼ ► attempt to clamp down on information spreading about their event, which is why, why, why would
00:29:39 ◼ ► you say, no, no, we don't want anybody to hear about this until later. They did not provide
00:29:45 ◼ ► wifi at events, even at events where there was wifi available, they would just turn it off.
00:29:50 ◼ ► They did not want people to have access to wifi at the event. And so everybody bought hotspots and
00:29:56 ◼ ► then they all clogged the space right in front of the stage where Steve was trying to do a demo.
00:30:01 ◼ ► And he yelled at everybody to turn them off, which by the way, I sat on mine, but I did not turn it
00:30:06 ◼ ► off because it's like, you're not the boss of me. You're going to tell me what to do. But I will say
00:30:11 ◼ ► the next event and every subsequent Apple event forever, there was good wifi because they realized
00:30:16 ◼ ► that it was their fault that it happened that way. But isn't that bizarre? They're like, no, no, no.
00:30:21 ◼ ► Oh, you and your audience want to report live about all of Apple's product announcements?
00:30:26 ◼ ► Please do not. What? How dare you? What? I don't know. So anyway, this is not quite that,
00:30:34 ◼ ► but it's a very similar kind of thing. I think Gizmodo, I don't know. I think that they did
00:30:38 ◼ ► good reporting and then they were also jerks about it. I think both of those things are true.
00:30:42 ◼ ► I think that they got real defensive and I think they wanted to, honestly, that culture of that
00:30:47 ◼ ► Gizmodo is very, very tabloidy organization in general, its whole culture. And so I think they
00:30:53 ◼ ► realized it was great publicity for them to be in a spat with Apple. I think that, and even if the
00:30:58 ◼ ► secret task force was called like, I feel like individuals in that organization were probably
00:31:04 ◼ ► terrified, but I think the organization as a whole loved the fact that they were getting all this
00:31:07 ◼ ► press. I mean, can't get a better scoop than that, right? Like you can't, if you, if you are in the
00:31:14 ◼ ► game of we will report rumors, right? Like getting the iPhone. And it's not even coming from an
00:31:20 ◼ ► Apple employee, right? Like it's, it's, it's just found in a bar. So you don't even have to be
00:31:25 ◼ ► accused of like ruining somebody's life or, or inducing them into breaking their NDA. It's like,
00:31:31 ◼ ► literally it just got left out. Because I think the story goes, there were a few publications
00:31:35 ◼ ► that got the emails and like with some photos, but Gizmodo were the ones that were willing to pay.
00:31:40 ◼ ► And so they did. And then, you know, I'm happy they did because then we have this great
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00:34:27 ◼ ► Yeah, because I feel like we only talk about the upcoming Macs, if there's going to be or not an
00:34:34 ◼ ► October event, you know, these new MacBook Pros, some of which you can buy in Russia. Apparently,
00:34:46 ◼ ► The Mac Mini, but I want to talk about the accessories. I want to talk about the peripherals,
00:34:52 ◼ ► because I feel like it's now or never, right? We were expecting some new peripherals at the iPad
00:34:58 ◼ ► event. They did not come. We were expecting them probably at WWDC. That wasn't the case.
00:35:05 ◼ ► They didn't show up in September. Well, now there's probably going to be a whole new lineup
00:35:10 ◼ ► of Macs. What better time to close out the year than to finally introduce new peripherals now?
00:35:16 ◼ ► And so I thought, let's talk about these accessories and let's share some of our wishes
00:35:20 ◼ ► in terms of things we want to see in these new peripherals. And I will go first by mentioning
00:35:25 ◼ ► something more broadly speaking that I would love to see here. It's been how many years since the
00:35:32 ◼ ► Magic Keyboard was introduced with Touch ID? Three, four years? The quick answer is too many,
00:35:37 ◼ ► but let me find that out. Still lightning-based, obviously. So obviously, USB-C is the simplest
00:35:46 ◼ ► answer. Apple should do USB-C charging for all these devices. But what I would like to see
00:35:52 ◼ ► personally is AirPods-like switching of these peripherals between multiple devices. I think
00:36:01 ◼ ► it's wild that if you buy a Magic Keyboard now, you can just use it with one computer at a time.
00:36:07 ◼ ► You either pair it with your Mac or you pair it with your iPad. Some people also pair keyboards
00:36:13 ◼ ► with their iPhones. Some people are into that. It's 2021, by the way. That's the answer to when
00:36:17 ◼ ► they put them. 2021, so three years. I would love to see... Just like Apple, Apple doesn't tell me,
00:36:24 ◼ ► "Look, you want to listen to music on multiple devices? Go buy five pairs of AirPods." They say,
00:36:30 ◼ ► "Just buy a single set of AirPods and switch between as many devices as you want." I want
00:36:36 ◼ ► to buy an Apple keyboard and I want to buy an Apple trackpad and I want to switch between
00:36:40 ◼ ► devices just like I do with AirPods. That's my big overall wish for these new peripherals.
00:36:50 ◼ ► Well, I guess you can go about this in two ways, right? I would say I'm asking for universal
00:36:56 ◼ ► control on the iPad's Magic Keyboard in the sense that if I'm using the iPad, and we're going to
00:37:03 ◼ ► talk about the Vision Pro later, but I think it's kind of silly that the Magic Keyboard on my iPad
00:37:08 ◼ ► cannot control Vision OS. But that's a different conversation. I think the simplest solution for
00:37:15 ◼ ► me would be, "Get a new keyboard, get a new trackpad, now you can switch from control center
00:37:20 ◼ ► just like you can with AirPods." It'd be interesting to see how they could work that out,
00:37:26 ◼ ► right? If you hit the key, where does it go? But there is an element of they made it work with
00:37:33 ◼ ► AirPods, right? There are ways to make that work, I guess. I would like it. I know I would like it.
00:37:42 ◼ ► Yeah. And it's just so dumb right now. I have this where I have a Touch ID, an orange Touch ID
00:37:51 ◼ ► keyboard that I bought on eBay because I wanted an orange. And I use that sometimes at my desk
00:37:58 ◼ ► in the back of the house with the laptop attached to an external keyboard or external display.
00:38:04 ◼ ► But I also use it with the Vision Pro. And it's so dumb. When I get in the Vision Pro and I want
00:38:10 ◼ ► to use that thing and it doesn't want to see it, it doesn't want to connect to it, sometimes I have
00:38:15 ◼ ► to unpair it and then repair it. And I don't even necessarily need, I mean, it would be nice if it
00:38:21 ◼ ► really intelligently sensed that I was close to the Vision Pro and it was in use and that that
00:38:26 ◼ ► was probably the device that I want to connect to. But there are so much room for improvement
00:38:32 ◼ ► in these things when you take them from device to device, and they just don't want to let go
00:38:42 ◼ ► They would never add physical switching, would they? Like a little button that you would press.
00:38:46 ◼ ► Like, I mean, that would give us what we wanted, but they would never do that, right? That you'd
00:38:50 ◼ ► set a little preset? I could see them hiding it under the globe key somewhere, you know,
00:38:54 ◼ ► globe F8 to toggle. But I don't know, they could. They did add an over-engineered button to the
00:39:01 ◼ ► iPhone. So, I mean, what's the harm in doing the same on a keyboard? Poor camera control. I think
00:39:07 ◼ ► camera control is getting too much. I think it's getting too much. I mean, have you used the thing?
00:39:18 ◼ ► camera control, you know? Colors. Let me buy an orange keyboard. Let me buy a pink keyboard.
00:39:29 ◼ ► Can you still only? Yes. You can't buy them separate? Still? That's why I used eBay. That's
00:39:36 ◼ ► why I have an orange keyboard from eBay. If you use the store, it's only silver. So you have to
00:39:43 ◼ ► find somebody who bought an iMac and doesn't want their keyboard and puts it on eBay. That's what
00:39:47 ◼ ► you have to do. Yeah, so dumb. Just today, I was talking to a friend. I was at silver school, and
00:39:57 ◼ ► in the office, they have a MacBook Pro docked at a desk connected to a studio display, which I sold
00:40:05 ◼ ► them, by the way. That's my old Apple studio display. And the person using the computer uses
00:40:10 ◼ ► a magic mouse. And he's really into the magic mouse, which I don't understand, because the
00:40:17 ◼ ► thing is so small, gives me instant wrist pain. But looking at it when it was charging,
00:40:37 ◼ ► MagSafe. Put MagSafe on the mouse. Put MagSafe on the mouse. MagMouse. Call it whatever. Yes.
00:40:46 ◼ ► Or at the very least, put the port on the front and let people use the mouse while it is charging,
00:40:55 ◼ ► instead of, you know, you've got to put it on the side. And it's kind of silly. Just let me use it
00:40:59 ◼ ► when it's plugged in. Or MagSafe, like Mike said. There's a lot they could do with that mouse,
00:41:05 ◼ ► though. Like there is a lot, a lot they could do if they actually want to make a mouse. But although
00:41:11 ◼ ► I would just say, honestly, they shouldn't make a mouse anymore. Like Apple should just get rid of
00:41:17 ◼ ► the magic mouse and just make a trackpad. And anybody that wants a mouse, just go to Logitech
00:41:24 ◼ ► or like Razer. Apple does not need to make a mouse. Like they clearly don't want to. Right.
00:41:31 ◼ ► But like they do. And they are so in on trackpads now. Like they do so much great stuff with their
00:41:37 ◼ ► trackpads. Just let the mouse go and make, you know, let's just like make partnerships. Right.
00:41:44 ◼ ► Like do the thing where you get Logitech to make a mouse for you and just like stop making a mouse.
00:41:52 ◼ ► Because backend is gonna, backend is gonna make a mouse and it's gonna, it's gonna call it boost
00:41:56 ◼ ► charge pro mouse. You know, they're gonna do it. And let them, you know, because Apple, Apple,
00:42:01 ◼ ► you've lost your mouse making card. Like you're not allowed anymore. You've made a bunch of bad
00:42:06 ◼ ► mice. This current ones are terrible. You've left it this way forever. Let's, let's just get rid of
00:42:10 ◼ ► it. I will just throw out mentioning trackpads. I want them to put touch ID in the trackpad. I
00:42:16 ◼ ► still want that. That would be like under the trackpad. Just put a little, put it in the corner,
00:42:22 ◼ ► like a little button, right? Like, like, you know, just have it look like the little button or a
00:42:27 ◼ ► little spot. I mean, it's all glass, right? So you could just put the sensor on, like flush with the,
00:42:33 ◼ ► with the glass of the trackpad, like top right hand corner or something. Yeah, no, I would love,
00:42:38 ◼ ► I would love that as somebody, you know, Mike, you and I are both thinking I'm never going to use an
00:42:42 ◼ ► Apple keyboard, but I really want the touch ID button and I do use the magic trackpad. So it
00:42:49 ◼ ► would be really nice if they, if they did the magic trackpad there. I don't think they're ever
00:42:54 ◼ ► going to get rid of the magic mouse, by the way, for a couple of reasons. One is, uh, cause they
00:42:59 ◼ ► bundle it with the iMac and there are people who like a mouse. And also I think it's cheaper than
00:43:04 ◼ ► the trackpad and they can't not, unless they ship the iMac with literally no input devices. And I
00:43:10 ◼ ► don't think they want to do that. They're going to want to ship it with input devices. And I honestly
00:43:15 ◼ ► think the mouse is cheaper, so it's better to ship it with the mouse. Oh yeah, man, you have to pay
00:43:20 ◼ ► $50 more to get the magic trackpad. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's a lot cheaper. Well then, then if
00:43:25 ◼ ► you're going to force this mouse on people, make it better, make it better. I agree. I agree. I,
00:43:32 ◼ ► you haven't mentioned, um, Patently Apple wrote a story like a million years ago about a patent
00:43:37 ◼ ► to use the keyboard, uh, the surface of keys as a trackpad. And I thought that would be amazing,
00:43:43 ◼ ► right? The idea that you had that, you know, relatively flat Apple keyboard, and then you
00:43:47 ◼ ► just move your fingers across it and it moves the cursor. Didn't we see it, didn't we see like a
00:43:52 ◼ ► couple of months ago, a Kickstarter from a Chinese company that wants to do this. Yes. Well, they
00:43:59 ◼ ► better check with Apple's patent then. And nobody, nobody kind of believed them. I'm like, well,
00:44:05 ◼ ► let me rephrase. None of us backed it. And that's despite the fact that we tend, you know, the,
00:44:12 ◼ ► the three of us and also OTJ, like we tend to back a lot of Kickstarters despite our better judgment.
00:44:26 ◼ ► The moquibo folio. Did it go anywhere? Are they making it? They, they have, as of March 28th,
00:44:37 ◼ ► 2023, they had, it looked like, well, let me see where we have updates. The moquibo folio.
00:44:45 ◼ ► Apparently in May of 2014, they're shipping out. This is their ship. They're shipping out.
00:44:51 ◼ ► Apparently I'm going to check the comments. There are 2,800 comments, which is not a good sign.
00:45:00 ◼ ► I don't know if anybody ever has received them, uh, because the com it's just full of people,
00:45:08 ◼ ► uh, not receiving anything, which is the way to go. So even though they're saying they're shipping,
00:45:20 ◼ ► this goes with when we're talking about vision pro and finding all those like plastic cases that let
00:45:25 ◼ ► you stick a track pad and a, and a keyboard together. Um, which is a thing they could do.
00:45:30 ◼ ► They could sell a combo, right? Which is just like the keyboard and the track and a magic track pad
00:45:35 ◼ ► in one unit, which maybe they could even get the price down on what they're doing and put that in
00:45:40 ◼ ► with the iMac and get rid of the mouse. I don't know, but it's a possibility. And then that would
00:45:44 ◼ ► be great for vision pro too, because you'd have the pointer attached to the keyboard. Um, so,
00:45:51 ◼ ► you know, stuff like that is good, but the track pad surface, which is a wild idea, but the idea
00:45:58 ◼ ► that you could use it as a fairly basic pointer, just by skimming your fingers across maybe multi
00:46:03 ◼ ► fingers across the keyboard and use it as a track pad. It's an interesting idea. I would also throw
00:46:07 ◼ ► out as my, my keyboard wishes, programmable key caps. I'm not necessarily saying the stream deck,
00:46:14 ◼ ► but like, I know that people have tried, you could have like, uh, keys that are, that have a color
00:46:20 ◼ ► under them that is changeable. Uh, or you could have, yeah, you could have a screen under the top
00:46:26 ◼ ► level. That's what the, what the, uh, touch bar should have been, uh, is something like that,
00:46:31 ◼ ► where it's physical keys, but you can customize them. And I know that they've also done,
00:46:34 ◼ ► people have done, uh, e-ink key caps, where the key caps label is changeable. And I don't know,
00:46:43 ◼ ► I think that would be kind of fun because I love my stream deck, but I like, I think there's value
00:46:46 ◼ ► when having a physical key that can be labeled whatever you want it to be. I don't think Apple
00:46:52 ◼ ► will do it, but we're getting wild here. I'll throw it out there. I've got to get some important
00:46:57 ◼ ► updates. The MoKibo, they have a website, they're shipping them that I'm finding videos on YouTube.
00:47:05 ◼ ► Like it's the thing that exists. They have a new version, apparently. I don't understand what's
00:47:10 ◼ ► happening over there on Kickstarter, but like, Apple should check this out. Apple should check
00:47:14 ◼ ► this out. Cause you can just buy it on their website. Now, Federico, I'm going to buy one
00:47:22 ◼ ► and Apple is going to sue me for whatever. I'm sending you a link. You can buy it. You can just
00:47:28 ◼ ► put, put it on your Fabu bar, put MoKibo on your, you put MoKibo on the Fabu bar. It looks,
00:47:33 ◼ ► it looks like it, you, it works and everyone's happy about it. You know, is MoKibo does it send
00:47:43 ◼ ► I think that's how that goes. I wanted to ask, are there any other peripherals that we think Apple
00:47:55 ◼ ► should make outside of this? And I will, I will, I will begin the bidding with a, with a webcam with
00:48:01 ◼ ► face ID in it, like an external one. They make a webcam. So forget about the bad webcams with a
00:48:10 ◼ ► face ID. 4k good with a center stage, high quality webcam that also has face ID sensors. So if you
00:48:21 ◼ ► really care, you can put it at the top of your display and get face ID on an external display.
00:48:28 ◼ ► Yes. Yes. Yes. That'd be sweet. I still kind of wish like the thing that you guys have done,
00:48:34 ◼ ► like taking apart a magic keyboard and making a standalone touch ID button out of it. I still
00:48:40 ◼ ► think that should be an actual product from Apple, even though they're never going to do it. Like,
00:48:44 ◼ ► let me, let me buy the touch ID button, you know, like, let me, let me, let me place it anywhere.
00:48:53 ◼ ► it authenticates into your Mac and it's also something that you can click if you want to do
00:48:56 ◼ ► something. I don't know. It could be fun. The problem is I love Apple to sort of take the
00:49:02 ◼ ► Nintendo approach, not to go back to the pro show, but like Nintendo is a giant company and they're
00:49:07 ◼ ► still weird enough to make this crazy accessories like an alarm clock. The problem I think is that
00:49:15 ◼ ► Apple is too big and too self-conscious to get weird in that sort of sense. Like, I don't know.
00:49:23 ◼ ► I will have Apple to say, we made you a button. Now you can buy the touch ID button. We made you
00:49:29 ◼ ► a weird keyboard that you can use with the iPad and the vision pro, like this sort of like cheaper,
00:49:36 ◼ ► strange, unexpected Apple accessories. And the problem is that I think they are too self-aware
00:49:42 ◼ ► and too big and too scared to concern their investors to come up with these products because
00:49:52 ◼ ► every single... I feel like they think that every single product they make has to be a hit, has to
00:49:58 ◼ ► be world-changing, whereas I would like them to do the weird niche accessories and peripherals
00:50:05 ◼ ► and they're not making them. That's the problem. Well, I do hope that their home products might...
00:50:11 ◼ ► Do you know these rumored home products? I really hope that, yeah. Especially the robot one
00:50:16 ◼ ► that they're working on, the one with the big robot arm. I think that's going to be a big...
00:50:21 ◼ ► As we established, Jason loves the fact that it's a robot. It's not a robot arm, Mike. It's a robot.
00:50:28 ◼ ► It's literally a robot. It's a robot. It stands on your countertop and wherever you are, it walks
00:50:37 ◼ ► over there, steps on your plates, kicks your glasses off and just follows you around your
00:50:44 ◼ ► kitchen playing music at you or maybe an Apple TV show on its screen. I was very excited a couple of
00:50:50 ◼ ► days ago when, I don't know, the Echo was alerting everyone in the household that a package was
00:50:55 ◼ ► coming and I went and just pressed the button to get rid of it because it's also... My wife's
00:51:02 ◼ ► birthday is coming up and I'm ordering decorations and I don't want her to see what they are and I
00:51:08 ◼ ► know you can change settings on the Echo, but whatever. When I was doing it, Adina turned to me
00:51:14 ◼ ► and she said, "When are we going to get an Apple one of those?" I was like, "Yes." She's ready now.
00:51:20 ◼ ► She's also had enough of the Amazon Echo and the many ways in which it tries to sell you things.
00:51:36 ◼ ► The Google one is better because I dumped my Echo and got a Google one. The problem with...
00:51:42 ◼ ► It's better in that it is not as annoying in terms of trying to sell you things because all Amazon
00:51:47 ◼ ► wants to do is... You're a customer in good standing with Amazon. You buy a lot of stuff
00:51:51 ◼ ► from Amazon. It doesn't matter. By the way, I want to sell you more things and it just won't stop.
00:51:56 ◼ ► Even if you turn all the settings on, what happens is they push new settings that are on by default.
00:52:05 ◼ ► whatever. I don't know. It's got lots of different names that they keep attaching to their products
00:52:09 ◼ ► because Google doesn't know what it's doing. It's a lot less annoying. The screensaver with
00:52:16 ◼ ► the photos that are in a Google Photos album is really nice. There's a lot of things about it
00:52:20 ◼ ► that I like. The bad thing is that the hardware is all old and slow and bad. When I bought mine,
00:52:27 ◼ ► it had been out for more than a year and I read the Verge article and they said, "This is a great
00:52:31 ◼ ► product except it's too slow." They were right and they haven't updated it since then. There's a big
00:52:37 ◼ ► one and a little one, but they're both incredibly slow. I am better with it than I was with the
00:52:45 ◼ ► Amazon one because it's not actively annoying. Although, one of my favorite features of it is
00:52:51 ◼ ► it's got a sensor in it, a camera and a sensor. We use it for alarms in the kitchen, right? It's like
00:53:04 ◼ ► Okay. Federico will like this. If you do pasta, you say set a pasta timer for 11 minutes.
00:53:20 ◼ ► Oh, yeah. It's a me. It plays a little sound effects, but when it's done, it starts making
00:53:30 ◼ ► this chime and you got to turn the chime off. There's three ways you can turn the chime off.
00:53:40 ◼ ► Or you can say to Google, stop it and it'll stop it, usually if it hears you. But the promise of
00:53:47 ◼ ► this thing is the sensor. You can take your hand and it's like talk to the hand and you can just
00:53:58 ◼ ► And it works sometimes, but it means that you're standing in your kitchen like an idiot waving at
00:54:06 ◼ ► a little box and it makes me feel stupid every time. But when it works the first time, I feel
00:54:11 ◼ ► like a magician. It's just that it doesn't usually work the first time. Anyway, please, yes, I would
00:54:16 ◼ ► love an Apple thing here instead. I would really appreciate that. And I'm sure Apple will not have
00:54:40 ◼ ► I tried to do it and I couldn't get there. I saw on threads that you have got a Nomad watch band.
00:54:48 ◼ ► And I was intrigued about what you think of this. I think I mentioned this on the show before that
00:54:52 ◼ ► like I've always been hesitant of third-party watch bands. They're not going to attach right.
00:54:58 ◼ ► And so like I wanted to know what you thought. No, you can ignore those concerns. It attaches
00:55:05 ◼ ► perfectly. It looks like a regular Apple watch band. This is my second Nomad watch band. I had
00:55:10 ◼ ► one of their light gray, kind of similar rugged sport one that I got a couple of years ago.
00:55:16 ◼ ► And to match my iPhone 16 Plus, I got the, what do I call it? Blurple. It's like a blue purple-ish
00:55:26 ◼ ► one in collaboration with The Verge. And it's perfect. I'm using it with the Apple Watch Ultra.
00:55:32 ◼ ► And yeah, it matches quite nicely the ultramarine of the 16 Plus, but no, it just, it's got the same
00:55:39 ◼ ► lugs. It's got the same attachment of a regular watch band. You can get different sizes from the
00:55:44 ◼ ► Nomad website. Really fast shipping. I got it like three days. Yeah, you should, like there are
00:55:55 ◼ ► questionable options on Amazon from like these no-brand companies. I remember one time my mom
00:56:08 ◼ ► but it cost like five euros. And so obviously my mom was intrigued and it gave her a rash
00:56:15 ◼ ► immediately. So probably try and buy from big brands like Nomad instead of like the five euro
00:56:36 ◼ ► I love The Verge. I read The Verge every day. I listen to The Verge cast. I'm a big Verge fan.
00:56:54 ◼ ► to be like a funny thing, but that is like a funny thing to me. Oh, there is a Verge logo underneath.
00:57:00 ◼ ► I didn't even know. It's on the inside though, which is good at least. This is going to be
00:57:04 ◼ ► great. Get ready for it. Hold on to your hats. It's tichy bands and it's the bands of six or
00:57:11 ◼ ► seven website logos. Oh my God. The Verge will be there obviously, but like there'll be others too.
00:57:18 ◼ ► Tichy bands. Like seriously though, Nomad, call us. I would do a watch band connected or a tichy
00:57:29 ◼ ► tab, a tichy band. I don't know why it's funny, but it is just funny to me. I don't know why,
00:57:43 ◼ ► Wow. Look, I love The Verge. Okay. It's a good website. It's a great website. It's one,
00:57:48 ◼ ► it would be one of my six or seven. I tell you that. Yeah. Many times I disagree with them,
00:57:52 ◼ ► but like I appreciate, I appreciate disagreeing with someone rather than ignoring someone,
00:58:08 ◼ ► Do I want to know? Yes, I was. Yes, I was. Yes. I prefer to read and disagree with the website
00:58:16 ◼ ► than to not read the website at all. Okay. I like that. That's good. Um, I think I might be over
00:58:34 ◼ ► I think I'm going to wait. I, I still, uh, we've yet to, me and Evina have yet to go into a store
00:58:40 ◼ ► because she, she, she wants an upgrade and her watch is a couple of years old now. And so I
00:58:45 ◼ ► think she loves her Apple watch. So I'm very happy to upgrade it for her. And I still love the look
00:58:50 ◼ ► of the series 10, but I don't want to lose my battery life yet. I'm struggling. I'm struggling.
00:59:00 ◼ ► Who knows? I might go into the store, try it on and that's the end of me, but I don't know
00:59:04 ◼ ► what to, I'm really torn on it because I still stand by the idea that like, uh, like what is
00:59:11 ◼ ► going to happen to the Apple watch ultra? Like how often is it going to get updated? How behind is it
00:59:16 ◼ ► going to be like, but maybe I just need to wait for that to happen. You'll worry. Exactly. You'll
00:59:21 ◼ ► worry about it when it happens. When I need to worry about it rather than trying to make myself
00:59:25 ◼ ► worry about it now. Yeah. You don't have a problem now. No, I don't. Yeah. Yeah. I think you might
00:59:32 ◼ ► be right. I think you might be right. I did see though. I know that you were having battery life
00:59:36 ◼ ► concerns for very good. Did you see that 0.0 0.1 had reference to a battery drain? Oh no, I didn't.
00:59:44 ◼ ► Thank you. Okay. So interesting. Yeah. WatchOS was it 11.0 0.1. It references in the release notes
00:59:51 ◼ ► that like there was a battery drain issue on the, on, uh, 18.0. Okay. I'll make sure. Have I updated?
00:59:58 ◼ ► Uh, okay. It's up to date. Oh yeah. I guess I did it a couple of nights ago. Yeah. Cool. Awesome.
01:00:06 ◼ ► Well, my, my ultra one is a 90%, which is not great. I mean, it's, it's lost 10%. Um, battery health.
01:00:12 ◼ ► Yeah. Yeah. So it's, uh, it's getting worse, but it's still so much better than the series 10,
01:00:18 ◼ ► you know? So I keep it and I really hope that I can keep it at least until next September,
01:00:26 ◼ ► like for another year. I'm sure. And see what, and see what happens. I mean, the battery is so good.
01:00:31 ◼ ► Even like a 50% battery life on this watch would be a regular one. You're probably right. Yeah.
01:00:37 ◼ ► Jason, are you enjoying your series 10? I am. It's great. I had a seven, right? I had a seven black,
01:00:50 ◼ ► loving the bigger screen. Nice to have a refresh battery after three years to, um, speaker is
01:00:58 ◼ ► interesting, but I found a weird quirk and this might be a bug. I wonder if it's going to be fixed
01:01:02 ◼ ► in the next version, but, um, you know, so, okay. Apple wants you to sleep with your Apple watch.
01:01:14 ◼ ► that Federico wrote about that time. That's the little thing that looks like a snow globe
01:01:17 ◼ ► and you slide your Apple watch in, like magnifies it and charges it. Do you remember that Federico?
01:01:22 ◼ ► I'm reminding you of so many things that you never remember that you wrote about. No, no. It was an
01:01:28 ◼ ► Apple watch accessory that was like plastic, clear plastic, but curved. And there was a, yeah, that's
01:01:34 ◼ ► it. And so you put the charging puck in the back and you slide it in and then it charges overnight
01:01:39 ◼ ► but it also kind of magnifies this, the nightstand. Oh my God. That was years ago. Yeah. And I bought
01:01:45 ◼ ► one. I bought one and I've been using it, but two new, two things. One very sad news. The new Apple
01:01:51 ◼ ► watch is, uh, has changed enough in shape that it doesn't charge reliably anymore. Uh, but two Apple
01:01:58 ◼ ► wants me to sleep with my watch on, which I've never done because they've got vitals and they
01:02:03 ◼ ► got sleep apnea detection. It's like, okay, Apple. So I'm committed to doing it. I moved the night
01:02:08 ◼ ► watch away. Uh, I just have a regular charging puck now and I try to do it when I'm in the shower
01:02:16 ◼ ► Um, and I, I'm, I'm trying to do that. So it's, it's just, I don't know. It's, it's weird to do it
01:02:27 ◼ ► that way. Um, but since I'm doing that and I, I have the sleep feature, sleep really, really,
01:02:33 ◼ ► really wants you to set a wake up time, right? They want you to have a wake up time with an,
01:02:38 ◼ ► and it has an alarm. And I've never done that. I get the tap. I've always gotten the tap at
01:02:42 ◼ ► night that says like, you should wind down and go to bed. And it's like, that's fine. I don't mind.
01:02:46 ◼ ► It's a little naggy, but I kind of don't mind it, but I never use the alarm in the morning because
01:02:50 ◼ ► first off I work at home and Lauren's got an alarm set, but I don't need to get up at the same time
01:02:54 ◼ ► and all of that. But I've, I'm embracing the sleep, the Apple way, the Apple sleep lifestyle.
01:03:00 ◼ ► Right? So this is what I did is I set it for 7 AM. Um, and I've worn my watch where alarms have
01:03:09 ◼ ► gone off before and they tap your wrist and it's kind of subtle. And what I found with a Series 10
01:03:15 ◼ ► on the .0 release of watchOS, when that alarm goes off, there's a setting that says don't make
01:03:22 ◼ ► noise. Like my phone, my watch is in silent mode. I never want my Apple watch to make noise.
01:03:46 ◼ ► I know. I know. I just, I feel like there's, there's some advantage to having it know when
01:03:57 ◼ ► an advantage to it. I have, I just thought I would try this, but it's like a feature of the
01:04:02 ◼ ► Apple watch speaker that I do not want. I've, I've occasionally been somewhere where I didn't
01:04:06 ◼ ► have headphones and I'm like in the kitchen waiting for the toast to pop or something. And I,
01:04:15 ◼ ► but I really don't want that alarm making any noise. And even though there's a setting to say
01:04:19 ◼ ► don't make noise, it still plays its little thing to wake me up in the morning. I don't,
01:04:47 ◼ ► You can get it on your Mac, your iPhone, your iPad, and yes, your Apple TV. There are 13 stages
01:04:53 ◼ ► of the game that you can start and you can start any of them. I love that about the game. You just
01:04:57 ◼ ► go in and just choose any levels. Maybe you have a favorite level. You want to come back to it
01:05:04 ◼ ► there's a lot to love about Celtrios. You have a ton of ways to play with customization to keep
01:05:10 ◼ ► the game feeling fresh like ship configuration, dozens of abilities. You can have a bunch of
01:05:15 ◼ ► options for playing it on your Mac in full screen as a randomizing mode and a hard mode too. Plus,
01:05:22 ◼ ► there's a huge high quality soundtrack with over 45 minutes of music and the game keeps expanding.
01:05:27 ◼ ► There have been over 85 free updates to Celtrios so far and the entire thing was made by an
01:05:33 ◼ ► independent developer. You can play solo or grab a friend for two player. Your Mac can support
01:05:39 ◼ ► various inputs or you can grab a controller if you're on iOS. If you love traditional shoot
01:05:43 ◼ ► em ups or you just want a quality game that is fun to play time and time again with none of the usual
01:05:49 ◼ ► annoyances that you may be used to seeing in other games, Celtrios is for you. The Mac version is on
01:05:54 ◼ ► steam of a free demo and the iOS and tvOS versions are available in the app store. Go to kevingrant.name/apps
01:06:02 ◼ ► to learn more today or you can click the link in the show notes. That's how you know it's from an
01:06:06 ◼ ► independent developer. Their website is their name and you can let them know that you came to the
01:06:11 ◼ ► game from this show. That is kevingrant.name/apps or just go click the link in the show notes.
01:06:21 ◼ ► So finishing up today Federico put a note in the show notes that said "Vision Pro Check-In". So
01:06:31 ◼ ► I'm going to assume that you have somewhere you want to begin with this Federico? Yeah so first
01:06:35 ◼ ► of all I want to begin by saying that I've been recording the entire episode while wearing my
01:06:39 ◼ ► Vision Pro. Okay. Yeah. Okay. What? Yeah. Wow. You don't even sound like your nose is blocked so
01:06:47 ◼ ► that's good. No no no no I mean so I've been using the iPad connected to the MixPre as I've been
01:06:55 ◼ ► recording all my shows for the past two months and I've been using screen mirroring to see the
01:07:01 ◼ ► iPad's display in front of me. So I turned down the brightness of the iPad's physical display and
01:07:07 ◼ ► I screen mirrored to the Vision Pro and I made the iPad screen giant in front of me. And then I also
01:07:14 ◼ ► opened a bunch of Vision OS windows. Like I got Discord in compatibility mode on the left, I got
01:07:19 ◼ ► Messages on the right, Safari on the top. And so that was my teeny tiny surprise for today. I guess
01:07:26 ◼ ► in general I think over the past couple of weeks I've been thinking about the Vision Pro a lot
01:07:32 ◼ ► because this thing has been sitting in a drawer for like three months. I basically stopped paying
01:07:37 ◼ ► attention in May when I got the new iPad Pros. And then WWDC happened and then it was the summer
01:07:45 ◼ ► and I was going to the beach and when I was not at the beach I needed to work on the iOS and iPad OS
01:07:49 ◼ ► 18 review and so I didn't really have time or the energy to think about the Vision Pro. But I still
01:07:54 ◼ ► felt bad about the fact that it was sitting unused because I still do think that there's so much
01:08:00 ◼ ► potential in this platform and I mean every time I use it, here's my thing, every time I use it
01:08:04 ◼ ► it brings me a little bit of joy. Like right now for example, the fact that I'm recording with all
01:08:10 ◼ ► these windows around me, it is kind of wild. At the same time it really bumps me out that the
01:08:17 ◼ ► Vision OS App Store is a little bit of a ghost town. And it also bumps me out that while Apple
01:08:27 ◼ ► has been working on these new immersive video efforts, they've been working to expanding the
01:08:33 ◼ ► list of compatible countries, the peripheral story, which is why I also brought that topic
01:08:40 ◼ ► to the show today, like the accessory story is just not there. And I'm really conflicted I guess
01:08:47 ◼ ► is what I'm trying to say. But over the past couple of weeks I think I've come to a realization,
01:08:52 ◼ ► which is what I also posted on Threads, that I think I've accepted that right now the Vision Pro
01:09:00 ◼ ► cannot be what I was hoping it would be last year. It cannot be my full-time computer. It cannot be
01:09:07 ◼ ► what replaces my iPad. And I think I'm fine with the thought for now of the Vision Pro being what
01:09:15 ◼ ► I use at night most of the time to watch movies, catch up on my YouTube queue, read some articles
01:09:22 ◼ ► in good links, basically watching Apple TV+ content, that sort of stuff, being my media
01:09:27 ◼ ► consumption device. And occasionally during the day when I feel like it, I can screen mirror my iPad,
01:09:35 ◼ ► which is the only option as an iPad user that I have. In absence of iPad virtual display,
01:09:42 ◼ ► I can screen mirror, which is not as good as Mac virtual display, but it's good enough.
01:10:04 ◼ ► I would use it a whole lot more if the iPad was a first-class citizen in Vision OS like Mac OS is.
01:10:38 ◼ ► No, I'm using the Magic Keyboard. The iPad is in the Magic... Yeah, yeah, yeah. But when I scroll,
01:10:43 ◼ ► I can see that there's a tiny bit of delay between what I see on the iPad's physical screen
01:10:49 ◼ ► and what I see on the mirrored window in Vision OS. But it's good enough, you know? I have written
01:10:57 ◼ ► articles this way. I have gotten some work done this way. And it does feel nice to surround
01:11:04 ◼ ► yourself with windows and doing the things that Vision OS does. But still, at the same time,
01:11:10 ◼ ► I'm conflicted because the third-party app story just isn't there anymore. It kind of dried up
01:11:20 ◼ ► after the initial rollout of developers who really wanted to be on board on the Vision OS app store.
01:11:26 ◼ ► It's still not officially available in Italy, which means I still got to hold on to that fake
01:11:32 ◼ ► US Apple ID that I've been trying to move away from. But I got to keep using it because the
01:11:38 ◼ ► Vision Pro is not in Italy. And so, yeah, I kind of wanted to check in with you guys and see how
01:11:43 ◼ ► you're using it. I have found a few uses for it. I agree with you that the lack of the native apps
01:11:51 ◼ ► is brutal and iPad apps are a fallback. But I'll give you an example. I use OneWriter to write on my
01:12:00 ◼ ► iPad Pro. Really nice customizable text editor. I've got it wired into shortcuts to post my
01:12:08 ◼ ► story's directive into my CMS. And I've settled on OneWriter. It's good. It's my text editor.
01:12:15 ◼ ► It's BB Edit on the Mac, OneWriter on the iPad. And I can run OneWriter on Vision OS, but it's
01:12:22 ◼ ► in iPad compatibility mode, and it's just not as good. And so, I end up using Runestone by
01:12:28 ◼ ► Simon Storving, which is good and a native app. It isn't as full featured as OneWriter is at all,
01:12:35 ◼ ► but it doesn't matter because it's a native Vision OS app. And that means it's better. It's just,
01:12:39 ◼ ► it's clearer. The text is crisper. You can resize it, and it's not pretending that it's inside an
01:12:46 ◼ ► iPad shape. And so, it is frustrating that there aren't more of those. But I also don't blame
01:12:50 ◼ ► developers for it because I know that there's nobody out there using Vision Pro right now. And
01:12:55 ◼ ► so, you either have to sort of do it because it's a challenge and interesting to you personally,
01:13:00 ◼ ► but not for financial gain, or because you think that maybe this will lead you somewhere eventually
01:13:05 ◼ ► with Apple, which makes me come back to the fact that I feel like Apple needs to show more
01:13:11 ◼ ► commitment to this platform. It's really committed to it. And they can do that in a bunch of
01:13:16 ◼ ► different ways. The content, yes, the immersive content is amazing. And even 3D movies are great.
01:13:21 ◼ ► I don't watch them a lot because I usually want to watch that stuff with Lauren. And so,
01:13:29 ◼ ► And when I was in Memphis, I watched a college football game on a gigantic screen in my hotel
01:13:34 ◼ ► room. And that was kind of fun to do. But like, so they, I know that their short film is coming out.
01:13:40 ◼ ► The first scripted short film is coming out tomorrow. So that's something, but it's been
01:13:45 ◼ ► really slow going. And a lot of things that we think might be great potential for this thing,
01:13:52 ◼ ► And then on the developer side, that's what I feel too, is like Apple needs to give developers
01:13:57 ◼ ► reasons to build these apps. And I know that they're doing something. There's something in
01:14:01 ◼ ► the show notes here. There's a piece about how Apple did a presentation at Apple park for
01:14:06 ◼ ► vision pro developers. And it's like, that's good. More of that more, I mean, maybe like
01:14:17 ◼ ► how can we help? Can we get you hardware? Like I would literally identify the top 50 iOS developers
01:14:24 ◼ ► in categories that matter. That would be good on vision OS. I would just target them and get them
01:14:29 ◼ ► hardware and say, please work with us on this. Right. Like, and maybe they're doing it and
01:14:34 ◼ ► there's no result, but I don't know. It sounds like they're not doing as much as they should
01:14:37 ◼ ► be doing to get the developers to make apps for this thing. Yeah. That, that, that event,
01:14:49 ◼ ► They had what was essentially like a one day WWDC kind of thing, real presenters on stage,
01:14:56 ◼ ► actually doing presenting, doing code. Like it looked kind of nice really, uh, to be honest. Um,
01:15:02 ◼ ► and they're also doing a bunch more events around the world. I don't think they're to this level.
01:15:08 ◼ ► Um, uh, I'm not sure if this one was, was like people were invited or you could apply to go.
01:15:13 ◼ ► Um, but that kind of, this is the, you're right. This is the kind of stuff they need to do
01:15:18 ◼ ► saying about like the big developers. I don't know if you saw, uh, Juno, the YouTube app has
01:15:25 ◼ ► been kicked off the store. That's because YouTube are making an app. It's coming out next year.
01:15:30 ◼ ► That's it. Why would Apple just let it go and take YouTube's word for it? It's because Apple
01:15:34 ◼ ► and YouTube clearly already have a deal to bring the YouTube app and, and to VisionOS. So they're
01:15:40 ◼ ► like, just let's just let this thing go away. But it's a shame because that's one of the best
01:15:44 ◼ ► VisionOS apps that exists. Yeah. The app still exists. It won't be updated anymore. I still got
01:15:49 ◼ ► it anymore. Yeah. But if you don't have it, you can't get it now. But that's why they're doing
01:15:54 ◼ ► that because they're finally getting Google to release some apps, which is good. I mean,
01:15:58 ◼ ► this is, this is the thing is look when, um, and you guys talked about this and thank you
01:16:02 ◼ ► for referencing the upgrade conversation about it too. The meta Orion and, uh, not even an
01:16:07 ◼ ► announcement, the showing off the prototype, which shifted the game. And I think it was really smart
01:16:11 ◼ ► for meta. And we all, we all talked about that last time. Um, the thing like Apple doesn't have
01:16:19 ◼ ► to, Apple doesn't have to do everything right now, but it needs to show commitment to where
01:16:24 ◼ ► it's going. It doesn't need to reveal that it's also dreaming of an AR future. I think the reason
01:16:28 ◼ ► the pass through is, is such a focus on vision pro is because it really is just kind of like an
01:16:33 ◼ ► AR glasses developer unit. It really is just kind of like, we want you to think in terms of
01:16:38 ◼ ► augmented reality, not virtual reality for it. Like that's all, that's all fine, but they need to
01:16:44 ◼ ► show that commitment. They need to, to do, they can't do what meta has done, but I just, I need
01:16:51 ◼ ► to see signs of life for them that this really does matter. And I know that it's not their
01:16:56 ◼ ► language to do prototypes. So whatever Apple's love language is, they need to speak it about
01:17:08 ◼ ► Tim Cook has said, AR is more interesting than VR and that the, you know, it's a place of interest
01:17:13 ◼ ► in all of those things. But like, I'd really like them to, to say, look, this is a longterm
01:17:18 ◼ ► commitment for us. It doesn't matter that this, that the vision, current vision pro is, is just
01:17:23 ◼ ► the start of the process. They've said some of that, but like their actions speak louder than
01:17:28 ◼ ► those words. And I just want to see them say, there are lots of reasons that people should be
01:17:33 ◼ ► developing software for this because this is going someplace. And, and the, the lack of shipping
01:17:41 ◼ ► content for the platform is one of those things that really gives me pause, right? Because then
01:17:46 ◼ ► the conversation is not, oh, the vision pro isn't a hit because it was never going to be a hit.
01:17:50 ◼ ► The conversation is, does Apple care about the vision pro? And that's, that's a big problem.
01:17:55 ◼ ► So when I saw this in the notes, I was thinking a bit about the vision pro, um, and like one of the,
01:18:03 ◼ ► you know, yesterday, uh, I had a call a few friends, Jason was on the call. We sometimes
01:18:08 ◼ ► hang out in vision pro just so we can use the special personas, which I think is the absolute
01:18:12 ◼ ► very best feature of the vision pro. And the thing that I was struck by is that like the vision pro
01:18:18 ◼ ► is like the coolest computer that I own and by a mile, like using that thing is unbelievable.
01:18:28 ◼ ► Like still yesterday I put it on and I'm using it and I'm flipping around some maps and like,
01:18:32 ◼ ► this is absolutely the future of computing. And I already own it. I just wish I have more to do on
01:18:39 ◼ ► it. And like I can and have like find things to do, right? So like, I want to use it more. I'll
01:18:47 ◼ ► find things to do kind of like what Federico is doing right now. Right? Like I will find something
01:18:51 ◼ ► to do because I want to use this, but like Apple has to meet us a little closer. Right. And, and I,
01:19:00 ◼ ► I do believe they will. Like I do not believe that they would just release this thing and then
01:19:08 ◼ ► they'll allow it to go nowhere, but they're, they're just being slow with it. And I think
01:19:12 ◼ ► that's okay. But I mean, if you see next year, I want to see vision of us three and it has a
01:19:18 ◼ ► bunch of cool stuff in it, right? Like I want them to keep pushing it. Like I'm not of the camp of
01:19:23 ◼ ► which there are a lot of people who are just saying it's dead. Like I don't believe that to
01:19:28 ◼ ► be the case at all. I just think that there are a lot of factors for this device that limit it,
01:19:33 ◼ ► like the price, the, the availability of it, like the interest of developers, it is limited,
01:19:40 ◼ ► but it doesn't have to be that way forever. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like because of these problems,
01:19:46 ◼ ► now it's the time to be humble, reach out to developers, like Jason said, expand the options
01:19:54 ◼ ► in terms of accessories, expand the options in terms of countries. Like, yeah, taking your foot
01:20:01 ◼ ► off the gas now is the mistake that Apple can make with this platform. And so, um, yeah, I wanted to
01:20:10 ◼ ► mention three things, um, that I'm enjoying with the vision pro. One is an accessory that I think
01:20:17 ◼ ► you guys may like. I've already ordered it because I saw it in the notes and I ordered it already.
01:20:21 ◼ ► So this is the, this is the Spigen head strap. It's basically a top strap for the vision pro
01:20:28 ◼ ► that allows you to have the same setup that we had last year with the private demo at WWDC.
01:20:35 ◼ ► You're using the solo knit band in the back, but you have a head strap at the top. And I've been
01:20:43 ◼ ► using the solo top set up forever. The solo top is this system to have two solo knit bands. Um,
01:20:50 ◼ ► yeah. So solo knit straps, whatever they're called. Um, but this one is much less bulky
01:20:56 ◼ ► and much more comfortable because you only need to worry about adjusting the band with the,
01:21:02 ◼ ► with the dial that sits in the back of your head. The one at the top, you can just set to one, to,
01:21:08 ◼ ► uh, to a position that feels right to you and you don't need to worry about it anymore. It's
01:21:14 ◼ ► perfect. I got it from Amazon. Yeah. I have high hopes for this because the solo top did not work
01:21:18 ◼ ► for me. Like it didn't feel very comfortable. And also the, my eye tracking wasn't as good.
01:21:24 ◼ ► I think you're going to like this. I think you're going to like this. Um, I also want to mention,
01:21:28 ◼ ► uh, I've still been alternating between using the vision pro as a, as a VR headset with the,
01:21:34 ◼ ► with the light seal versus using it, uh, with an open system. Yeah. I've read about the open
01:21:41 ◼ ► system a few months ago. If you're interested, the company that made the air cover, um, they're
01:21:48 ◼ ► called infinity one three D they make a bunch of accessories for, for various, uh, VR headsets. Um,
01:21:55 ◼ ► the air cover lets you use the vision pro as, uh, almost an AR headset without the light seal.
01:22:03 ◼ ► It's very comfortable, quite cheap. They have a version two, uh, that is very similar to the,
01:22:09 ◼ ► to the original one. Maybe the, the printing material is a little bit nicer on the version
01:22:14 ◼ ► two, but this is the one that I've been using, uh, sort of switching back and forth between this one
01:22:18 ◼ ► and the light seal for when I really want to be immersed. There's something about this, like
01:22:23 ◼ ► whenever I see the pictures of this where I'm just like convinced that you're just like burning your
01:22:27 ◼ ► eyes. Like, I don't know why, like whenever I see pictures of it, I'm like, Oh God, it looks so bad.
01:22:32 ◼ ► And I gotta say it does look bad, but I gotta say that it, it does help a lot in terms of like
01:22:38 ◼ ► getting rid of the tunnel effect when you're looking into the vision pro right with the light
01:22:43 ◼ ► seal. Um, vision OS two is much better than vision OS one at not bothering you so much with alerts,
01:22:53 ◼ ► like, Oh, you should, you know, you're too close to this place. Like with vision OS two,
01:23:03 ◼ ► it would be the sort of like, uh, Jason Snell alert that comes up every so often, you know,
01:23:10 ◼ ► it comes up and it bothers you and it annoys you and it gets in your way. Not so much anymore. Um,
01:23:15 ◼ ► lastly, I want to recommend the sub stack newsletter, uh, last week in Apple vision pro
01:23:26 ◼ ► vision OS things. It's, it's the next, it's the closest thing to a blog all about vision OS that
01:23:33 ◼ ► I've found. And they do a really good job sort of collecting all the things that developers come up
01:23:39 ◼ ► with interviews, um, new demos from YouTube. It's just a weekly collection of vision OS and vision
01:23:48 ◼ ► pro related things. And they do a really good job. And yeah, quite nice. Yeah. So that's, uh,
01:23:57 ◼ ► that's my three things. And yeah, Mike mentioned our, our, uh, little chats that we try to do.
01:24:01 ◼ ► We try to put on the calendar, right? Because that's, that's one of the challenges is people
01:24:05 ◼ ► don't have, um, they're not like, Hey, let's just check in with my friend who happens to be wearing
01:24:11 ◼ ► vision pro right now, which I kind of wish they would like offer some sort of solution for that,
01:24:16 ◼ ► where you could like see what ones of your friends like, like how actually on the, on the meta quest,
01:24:21 ◼ ► um, it works that way where you can, you know, it's like, like a game console. It's like your
01:24:27 ◼ ► friend is on right now. Um, so I wish they would do that, but I, the, the perspecial personas are
01:24:32 ◼ ► so good. And I try to explain it to people. And I think that they all think that I'm crazy,
01:24:37 ◼ ► but it's like when, when we were doing this one this week, it's like, we're just around like a
01:24:43 ◼ ► campfire or something. And it feels completely different than being on a video call with
01:24:47 ◼ ► somebody. It feels fun. It's not the same as being together in person, but it's much closer to that
01:24:54 ◼ ► than it is to be on a FaceTime call. It just, you're not seeing yourself and, and making sure
01:24:59 ◼ ► that you're positioned in the frame. Like you're just present in reality, basically, virtual
01:25:04 ◼ ► reality, and you see people's facial expressions and you hear them and the position of the audio
01:25:09 ◼ ► is perfect. It's so good. Again, nobody has got a Vision Pro, so you gotta be, you gotta have those
01:25:17 ◼ ► people and you gotta make the time, but it's so good. And then I'll throw it out again. I mentioned
01:25:21 ◼ ► Runestone earlier. The other thing I use the Vision Pro for is absolutely when I am on a
01:25:26 ◼ ► deadline and I am, I just cannot focus. And I need to write something. I will put the Vision Pro on,
01:25:35 ◼ ► go into an environment, bring up Runestone, play some music that will help me focus. And I have
01:25:42 ◼ ► written many articles in Vision Pro for that reason, that it gives me, you know, I've written
01:25:53 ◼ ► at the kitchen countertop, or I'll just try to like change where I am or back in the day,
01:25:59 ◼ ► go to a cafe just to put myself in a different mental space to write. And I found that Vision Pro
01:26:06 ◼ ► will let me do that. And then I can go to Joshua Tree is my mental space and, and right there. And
01:26:10 ◼ ► it really does work most of the time. It's a very good product that is very expensive and requires
01:26:18 ◼ ► the effort, but if you're okay with all of that, God damn it's good. You know, like it's real good.
01:26:26 ◼ ► And again, I know that provided they are willing to commit, it will all continue to get better.
01:26:36 ◼ ► I guess the next little while is they're willing to commit. I think that method is probably holding
01:26:41 ◼ ► their feet to the fire and we'll see how Apple responds if at all. But I think that if, if it
01:26:47 ◼ ► had been taken the backseat, I don't think they can, they can accept that to occur anymore.
01:26:56 ◼ ► thank you, Jason, for joining us. Oh, it was, I listen every week. So it was a pleasure to be on
01:27:02 ◼ ► and fill in for Steven this week. What was today's date, Jason? It is, uh, October the 9th, 2024.
01:27:09 ◼ ► Check it out. Accept no substitutes. That big thing that happened later in October, 2024.
01:27:15 ◼ ► We didn't know about it. Sorry. Didn't know about it. If you want to find Jason online,
01:27:20 ◼ ► you can go to six colors.com. He is also the host of upgrade here on relay. Let's say co-host. I
01:27:27 ◼ ► don't know why I just, why did I just demote myself like that? Jason is the one and only
01:27:31 ◼ ► person worth listening to on upgrade. You can check him there every Monday. It's just, you're
01:27:36 ◼ ► just being, you know, it's official in your role as Mike on connected to sort of accuse yourself.
01:27:43 ◼ ► You can also find Jason on the incomparable and other shows on relay too, including downstream.
01:27:52 ◼ ► but I was actually successful at that time. So I shouldn't have called attention to it.
01:27:55 ◼ ► You can find Jason online is at Jason. Now J S N E double L Federico is the editor in chief of max
01:28:02 ◼ ► stories. You can find Federico at max stories.net. And he is also the teacher at max stories.net on
01:28:08 ◼ ► mastodon of a teachy on threads. I am I Mike I M Y K E and you can find my work here on relay
01:28:15 ◼ ► and a cortex brand.com. Uh, I'd like to thank our sponsors of this week's episode. That is the