0:00:00Hello and welcome to Connected episode 536. Today is January 22nd, 2025. The episode is made
0:00:16possible by our sponsor, Ecamm. My name is Stephen Hackett and I have the pleasure of being joined
0:00:21by our keynote chairman, Mike Hurley. Hello, thank you, Stephen. And I, as keynote chairman,
0:00:28have the pleasure of introducing to the show, annual chairman, Federico Vattici. Hi, Federico.
0:00:32Oh, hello, fellow chairman. How are you? And hello, also, the other one, Stephen.
0:00:38Yes, Stephen. Co-host, Stephen. Yes, co-host, Stephen. Yes.
0:00:44So, on last week's pro show, which you can get by going to getconnectedpro.co and you can sign up,
0:00:52support the show, you get longer ad-free episodes of the show each and every week.
0:00:55Me and Federico were way too excited about the possibility of a Nintendo Switch reveal. It
0:01:01didn't go the way that we expected, but it did happen. So, Nintendo put that out and I thought
0:01:05we could start off today's episode by some vibes. Stephen, are you at all aware of what happened
0:01:10in any possible way? Yeah. No, I watched the video. I noticed it was two minutes and 22 seconds long.
0:01:16Did you guys catch that? Huh? I actually didn't. I knew it was like two minutes, but I didn't know it was 222.
0:01:22Very clever. That's fun. No, it looks great. Bigger. I'm excited for bigger Joy-Cons because
0:01:28the current Joy-Cons are like little, they're for children. Yeah.
0:01:32I hope they fixed the, um, uh, drift, the drift issue. I don't know if they did.
0:01:37Yeah, they did. Good. I'm okay. Hopefully. We assume they did. They made, they made a big point
0:01:42in the video of showing the Joy-Cons like spinning around that, that would suggest to me. And I'm sure
0:01:46Federico would agree that that is like some kind of hint to them having done what needs to be done,
0:01:51which is something called Hall Effect. It's a different type of technology for sticks. And
0:01:55the assumption is that they would have handled that. Honestly, like Nintendo always does weird
0:01:59stuff. I 100% expect they would have fixed this because this was a problem for them in the long
0:02:04time. They had to do a lot of remorsements and stuff. My original Joy-Cons, uh, the one of them
0:02:09died and I like got in touch with their support. Anyways, it's the whole thing. Uh, so bigger,
0:02:14hopefully more powerful. Uh, there's like a mouse mode or something that's rumored, right?
0:02:19Cause like they had that shot where the, the Joy-Con, which is magnetic now it looks like,
0:02:23which is awesome. I hate the little track thing. You have to slide in and out. Um, some sort of
0:02:28cursor mode or something that looks interesting. That is the expectation. Uh, well, that means if
0:02:34anything, we don't know, right? Like, will you play Call of Duty like that way? Who knows? You know,
0:02:41maybe. What do you think Federico about like the mouse thing? I do think it's real and happening and a
0:02:48way for Nintendo to, to have a, an interesting answer to the Steam Deck in terms of, here's another
0:02:57environment where indie developers can port their PC games to a handheld. This handheld, so the Steam Deck
0:03:05has a touchpad and, and it's maybe you and I, you know, the, the games that we usually play, we don't rely
0:03:11on the touchpad a lot, but there's other types of games. And obviously there's a civilization seven
0:03:17coming out this year that absolutely benefit from, from, from pointer. And I think it's interesting to
0:03:23see Nintendo sort of going after that part of the Steam Deck without a touchpad, but by saying, well,
0:03:28the Joy-Con is now a mouse. Yeah. And obviously in addition to that, I'm sure there'll be some weird
0:03:36Nintendo gimmick, like a new Mario paint or something that takes advantage of, of a cursor. Yeah.
0:03:42So it's a podcast assistant into a kind of funny games cast and one of, they were given like their
0:03:47predictions over the last few days or whatever. And one of the things that one of the hosts said
0:03:52is like, what if like Mario paint is a part of Mario maker three, which I thought was like a really
0:03:57interesting thing to do, like to combine that idea together. Um, this is the thing, if this is the weird
0:04:05thing they've done great, cause it's not going to affect me at all if I don't want it. Right.
0:04:09Where there are a bunch of weird things Nintendo could intend to do and adding in this support,
0:04:16isn't it? And like, you know, it's not a problem that the magnet thing, I'm really intrigued to see
0:04:21what that experience is like, um, of actually attaching and detaching the Joy-Con. Um, but yeah,
0:04:28I think pretty much anything could be better than the way that you currently have to do it with that,
0:04:34like really impossible tiny button. Uh, that's on the back of them.
0:04:37And you can, if you have children in your household, you will discover that it's possible to jam a Joy-Con
0:04:43on the wrong way around to a restaurant. You don't need to have children to do that. You could also
0:04:47have someone who did that on the first day, which was, uh, and potentially new Mario cart. Finally.
0:04:53No, not potentially. That's a new Mario cart. There's no potential. Yeah. I'm excited because
0:04:57my switch, my kids play several things on it. It took them to the TV like 98% of the time,
0:05:03but I sometimes, you know, dad draws a bath and plays Mario cart. No, I'm just kidding.
0:05:07Not in the bath. Um, but you know, sometimes I'll play Mario cart. So I'm excited for a new one.
0:05:12Everyone likes Mario cart and that's why they showed it in the trailer. You know what I mean?
0:05:16Like everybody loves Mario cart and they're going to make a new one, which is going to be amazing
0:05:20because it is actually the first new Mario cart in such a long time.
0:05:23The Wii U, right? I mean, since the Wii U.
0:05:26It's like an insane amount of time since the new one. Uh, so I expect big things from that,
0:05:33from that. So yeah, I'm really excited about this. The only thing that's a downer for me is that
0:05:37it's not coming until way later in the year. Like I'd hoped that this thing was going to come in like
0:05:43March, but it's probably June or July, which is, that's a bit, that's a bummer. I, I, I'm bummed out
0:05:49about that, but yeah, excited about the rest. I suspect there'll be one, uh, under the Christmas
0:05:53tree this year at my house. Oh yeah. I mean, do it, you know? Yeah. Uh, Federico, you have solved
0:06:01email. What's going on? Well, well, no, no, I mean, no to the, in the sense of like Federico,
0:06:08it really is thanks to Mike. Hello. And, and so I got this text from, from our, uh, my fellow chairman, um,
0:06:19wow, a few days ago, uh, saying, Hey, have you, have you ever played around with this? Because I,
0:06:24I was talking to a friend and they've been really happy with it and they've been doing some incredible
0:06:29things with this app. So this app is called short wave. I was familiar with short wave. I think I,
0:06:37I tried it when it first came out. It was like this Gmail only client. Um, and it was like at the
0:06:45time, if I recall correctly, it sort of looked like a modern version of, do you guys remember
0:06:51Google inbox that old? Yeah. Yeah. It kind of, it kind of looked like that. So that was a couple
0:06:57of years ago, I think when short wave came out and I kind of lost touch with it. Uh, it now
0:07:04seems that over the past few years, they have sort of become a more business oriented product. Uh,
0:07:11and they are going very heavily, uh, very like all in on AI integrations. And I, I, and so I thought,
0:07:21well, you know, Mike gave me some examples of what their friend had been doing, uh, with short wave
0:07:26and so I took it for a spin. And, uh, all this to say, I canceled my superhuman subscription. And, uh,
0:07:34the, I think this product is incredible. If you receive a lot of emails and especially if you like
0:07:43to receive everything at a single address, but require better organizations, uh, of the different
0:07:51kinds of messages that you get. Um, so the idea here is that like in superhuman, uh, in short wave,
0:07:59you can create multiple split inboxes. The feature is literally the same. You can take
0:08:05advantage of Gmail's own default organization. So you can have emails, uh, fall under like
0:08:12promotions, updates, uh, finance, those sort of like default categories, or you can make your
0:08:20own splits like in superhuman. And a split can be based on any kind of possible, like filter
0:08:27or search query or label, like you can make a split out of anything you want.
0:08:32What I think is interesting is that these, uh, short wave still carries over like the, some
0:08:39of the legacy of the old Google inbox, um, app in that you can choose to have some emails be
0:08:47bundled together and appear as a small bundle in the main inbox. So for example, I have all
0:08:56of my, um, uh, emails about something that I purchased, I automatically labeled them and I'll
0:09:04get to this in a minute. I automatically labeled them as transactions. Those transactions emails
0:09:11appear when a new one comes in as a small bundle in my inbox called transactions, which is very
0:09:18similar to what Google inbox used to do. And to what other, I think back in, back in the day,
0:09:23I think when I was using Hay many years ago, um, uh, yeah, um, I think that there was also
0:09:32a feature there. Uh, so this is still supported here. The AI stuff is the best I have found to
0:09:40date. Uh, both in terms of the stuff that I don't necessarily really care about a lot, which
0:09:47is like, there's a feature that there's actually a collection of features to write emails in your
0:09:54style because this, this service can be trained optionally if you want on your data and learn
0:10:00how to write emails like you, uh, which is not something that I necessarily want or need.
0:10:07But if you do, but if you, but if you do want it, I, I, I, I tested it. It's, uh, sort of eerie how
0:10:15accurate it is. Like it picked up my style correctly. Uh, and you can refine like if, like if you see
0:10:24something that like, okay, this sort of kind of sounds like me, uh, but there's a sidebar where you can
0:10:30talk to the LLM and, uh, you can say, no, actually make it sound shorter. And, and so you can tweak
0:10:38it with natural language. And of all the, this kind of similar products that I've tried, this one is the
0:10:44best. I am more interested in the AI enhancements in terms of search and inbox organization. And this is
0:10:53where I think short way really got me. So the search, I actually sent you a few minutes ago, an example,
0:11:00we were talking in the, in the, in the pro show about, uh, wallpapers. And I recalled that I had
0:11:07purchased over the past couple of years, uh, a series of wallpaper packs from Gumroad, but I couldn't
0:11:14remember off the top of my head, like what were they actually called, what the name of the different
0:11:20creators on Gumroad was. So I asked, um, in the AI sidebar of shortwave, uh, can you, uh, can you find the
0:11:29wallpaper packs that I bought from Gumroad, like a natural language query? Um, and he found a
0:11:36list of the, of all the transactions for the wallpapers, extracted the names of the wallpapers, the names of the
0:11:43creators, and it linked me back to each email for those purchases so that I could also re-download them
0:11:51again. And this is just great, man. It's incredible. You can go much deeper with this in the sense of
0:12:00like, I have been able to ask stuff like, can you look at emails that, oh, actually John, uh, John is
0:12:08also checking this out. John sent me an incredible example today that I'm going to read you. Uh, John asked,
0:12:15find messages received in the last 30 days about new and updated apps from individual developers.
0:12:21Messages may include links to test flight and promo codes and have links to press kits or links to the
0:12:27same. Do not include any messages that have an unsubscribed link in them. And the AI responded with
0:12:34a list of indie apps that we were recently sent with details for each app and a link back to the
0:12:40original email message. Um, I did something like a couple of days ago, I asked, uh, can you look in my
0:12:46email for, um, club Mac stories, support requests that I haven't answered. And each one of those, can you
0:12:55make it to do for me? Uh, and it, and it worked. Um, this to do functionality, unfortunately is
0:13:04proprietary to shortwave. So it's tasks within shortwave. I wish that there was some kind of like
0:13:11to do is integration, but there's not. Um, but the, the other, there's two more things I want to
0:13:16mention. The other AI feature that I think is like my favorite so far in any product of this kind is AI
0:13:24filters. Obviously I'm really into like smart searches, uh, filtering criteria for all kinds
0:13:32of productivity apps, but usually you got to learn the syntax. Gmail does have a syntax that you can
0:13:39learn and it's a pretty complex one and I don't want to learn it. So instead I am using, there's this
0:13:48feature where you can write your own AI prompt. And when a new message comes in shortwave is going to
0:13:56match it against the AI, the AI prompt. And if there's a match, it's going to do something. And in
0:14:03my case, it's applying labels. For example, I have a filter called shipped, and this is what it does.
0:14:10Include emails that are shipping notifications for physical products or goods that have been shipped
0:14:14to me. These emails may be in Italian or English. Include emails for all stages of the shipping
0:14:19process from the initial shipment to tracking number to the item being delivered. Never include
0:14:24receipts about the initial transactions. I only want shipping confirmations and updates. Now, whenever I
0:14:30get shipped something and the emails may be formatted in a whole bunch of different ways, right? Uh, you know,
0:14:36they may be in two different languages. It's going to be consistently tagged for me.
0:14:41Cause that's not really something you can do with Google. You can't get Google to do that because it
0:14:48needs the, you know, you need, if everything came from one email address that you could do with Amazon,
0:14:53right? You could maybe do a Shopify, but you can't guarantee every purchase you make comes from one of
0:14:58those places. I purchased that iPhone case that John reviewed on Mac story today. Like that came from a
0:15:04totally different Shopify store. Like how would I consistently automate this stuff without this kind
0:15:12of AI integration? I wouldn't be able to do that. Um, lastly, I will mention this will, this will be part
0:15:19of a, of a story of an article that I'm working on on the iPad. This is the best PWA that I've ever
0:15:26tried. It's the absolute best progressive web app I've ever seen. It even supports PWA push notifications,
0:15:35which is something that I think Apple added like last year. I haven't seen anywhere. Uh, so they have done
0:15:43a really good job with their progressive web app. It supports, uh, custom keyboard shortcuts, um, push notifications,
0:15:50really well done. Uh, because, uh, as is the case, and this is something that I will explore more deeply
0:15:57in my story. There's this clear divide now between the functionalities and the UIs of native iPad apps
0:16:05compared to what you can get by using the web app color part instead. So yeah, thank you, Mike,
0:16:13for the recommendation. Pleasure. Uh, the pitch that, uh, this friend of mine gave for why they liked this
0:16:19app, which I just thought I would share was like, they basically are like, they asked the AI, uh,
0:16:27give me an itemized list of every action item for my kid's school and put any calendar events on my
0:16:39calendar. And it just went, boom, did it all. And he was like, I'm in. So I heard it too. I was like,
0:16:45I love the sound of this. I mean, my problem is, as it always is, um, some of my email is not Gmail.
0:16:53Like one email account that I use a lot is not a Gmail account. It's my iCloud account.
0:16:58And like, they just don't support iCloud. And so it's like, well, you know, which is usually the way
0:17:03these things go. Uh, but I'm happy that these tools exist in these ways. I think this is email email to
0:17:09me feels like a prime candidate for AI, not the doing of it, but the handling of it. Yeah. Um, you
0:17:18know, the idea that, you know, just the entire world can just send you stuff like it's just, you know,
0:17:24anybody can get into your inbox. That is a, just a wild system that we have accepted, uh, as a species
0:17:31and something that can help you manage that is like perfect. So like, that is how we get to a
0:17:37better, better living with email life. Uh, so I think tools like this sound fantastic to me.
0:17:43Yeah. Yeah. Pretty good. Uh, it's expensive, but it looks like all of this email, email business
0:17:52oriented AI power tools are expensive. Yeah. You're on the bleeding edge, right? Like, and so you're
0:17:58going to pay for it. And, uh, eventually if it works out, it won't be so expensive anymore.
0:18:01Yeah. Well, I'm happy you like it. I am very keen to see how it goes to you over the longterm.
0:18:07Yeah, me too.
0:18:08I'm still using MimeStream again, Gmail only. So Mike doesn't help you, but, um, I'm still really
0:18:16happy with it. And they have said that, uh, the iOS app is coming along. He had an update on
0:18:21massed it on the other day, but, um, there was also reporting that the categorization stuff that's
0:18:28for some reason only on the iPhone and iOS 18 is going to come to the iPad and Mac. And Mike,
0:18:35I know you've talked about it. Are you actively using that feature?
0:18:39Yes. And how, how has it been in the past? I, I kind of just don't like that stuff, but,
0:18:44um, how's it going?
0:18:45I think it is. I mean, people seem really mad about it and I don't understand. I just think
0:18:49it is like fine. And that's all I need. I just want emails from people in, in my inbox and
0:18:56then everything else somewhere else. I don't care where it goes. Just get it out. Right.
0:19:00Like they have like these three categories. It doesn't really bother me. Like just, just
0:19:04get it out. Now the feature that I don't think is implemented very well is Apple's attempt
0:19:09at trying to surface important emails. Like that is a separate thing they're doing. That
0:19:14is bad. Like they've not done a very good job of that feature because on two occasions now
0:19:18I've had like spam scam emails highlighted to me as an important thing that I need to know
0:19:24about. Wow. Like you got to change your Netflix password, but it turns out it didn't come
0:19:28from Netflix. So it's like, click on that. It's cool. Not, not awesome really. Cause like
0:19:35that, that does not, that is not a good pattern because you are like people trust their trust
0:19:40Apple in that scenario. So like a different person, if they got that would be less likely
0:19:45to check if it was spam or not. So that is an unfortunate scenario. Uh, but this categorization
0:19:51works well for me and I want it on my iPad and on my Mac, because at this point the
0:19:58only thing I'm still using spark for is just to have some element of categorization, you
0:20:03know, newsletters go into a newsletters, transactions go into a transactions and that's the end of
0:20:08it. And like, and so once they bring it, I'm, I'm done with spark. Okay. I'm glad we could
0:20:13talk about email feelings about email. Love email. Do you? No, but I love talking about
0:20:21it. I hate it, but I love talking about it. It is evergreen podcast content. Yup.
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0:22:25iOS 18.3 incredibly has reached release candidate. It's like, oh, what is it? What is even in it? Like
0:22:34there's, I think two features in it. There was kind of nothing. And then right at the end, they put a bunch
0:22:40of stuff in and or change some things. Like basically the biggest two things in iOS 18.3 are Apple
0:22:48intelligence related, but no features. So first off, iOS 18.3 enables Apple intelligence by default
0:22:57at upgrade, which is an incredible decision. Like just a, I don't even know why decision.
0:23:04It's no longer opt-in. It is still classed as a beta. And if you don't want it, you have to go into
0:23:12settings and disable it. So like it's in the, it's you, you're told it's happening. You're allowed
0:23:18to customize it in the way that you want to. Maybe you can skip it. I don't know. I have not done an
0:23:23update from a non Apple intelligence device, right? But it's part of the, hey, you've upgraded.
0:23:28You now have these features, right? So it's, it's like kind of how features get added to the
0:23:36operating system, right? Typically you don't like opt in, you're like, oh, I want to opt into the new
0:23:41home app. No, you just get the new home app, right? So they're doing that. But Apple intelligence,
0:23:45that's a, it's a stretch. I mean, especially because it is still a beta. I mean, especially
0:23:49when iOS 18.3 disables some things like news and entertainment apps will no longer have notification
0:23:58summaries. And they've also italicized the notification summaries, which I hate. Like,
0:24:03I think it looks so bad, but they've done it. But at least you can't not notice it, right? Like you do
0:24:09notice it, but yeah, they've done that. They've also added two features to visual intelligence,
0:24:16which is everyone's favorite feature, which, so if you use visual intelligence now, you can add an
0:24:22event to the calendar app. Okay. So you've seen a poster and you're like, oh yeah, I want to go to
0:24:28that. You can also more easily identify animals and plants, which again, so if you, you know,
0:24:33you don't necessarily have to ask, what is that dog? Like they did in the ad, it should just now
0:24:39show you what, what kind of dog it is. That ad still, that video still cracks me up. Ask the person
0:24:45holding the other end of the leash what the dog is. All of these, these two features, they are steps in
0:24:51the right direction for this feature, right? These are things that it should do. So great,
0:24:56they're adding them. Like I'm not really, the idea of visual intelligence is more interesting to me
0:25:02than the actual implementation of it so far, but it's like, we'll see where that goes. But yeah,
0:25:07iOS 18.3 doesn't have anything new in it. So I guess now we look towards iOS 18.4 as a potential
0:25:17for the rest of Apple intelligence, right? Personal context, app intents. This is all
0:25:25supposed to be a part of iOS 18. There's probably some other stuff I don't remember. There is none
0:25:31of that in .3. And I expect, you know, if, if there, if this comes out maybe this week or next week,
0:25:37then maybe the week after there'll be the .4 beta will come out and it will have expect,
0:25:43I would expect at least something. But really iOS 18.3 is a release where Apple has kind of had to
0:25:50take a step back from something in Apple intelligence, which is the way that the notification
0:25:55summaries are working because people are getting real mad. And a lot of news organizations are very
0:26:01upset, I think for good reason, because it's, it's making them look like fools. And so now they're,
0:26:06they're going in and they're changing it. So weird release. It's just like a bug fix release,
0:26:11which is usually not a problem for a .3 or whatever, but there are still a bunch of features
0:26:17left and we're five months away from WWDC. And there's a lot to go. So good, good work. Good luck
0:26:26over there, I should say. Good work too. Yeah. So there we go. I'm super excited to install it. Can't
0:26:33wait. Can't wait to do it. I have a story. I'm so excited for this. There are so many notes in
0:26:41Notion and I've not read any of them. It's almost a thousand words for the things.
0:26:44I don't want to, I don't want to know. I don't know what happened. And then I saw.
0:26:49I want to know now. It's like a blog post in here. Yes. Stephen's blogging inside of Notion.
0:26:55I was, I was live tweeting as it was happening to send to Notion. Okay. So last, was it last
0:27:01episode, a couple of episodes ago? Yes. We spoke about tech things we wanted to do in the new year,
0:27:07right? Sure. New year's resolution. My resolution's 5k. And sorry. I think you mean it. I think you
0:27:18need a yearly theme. Yeah. Yeah. My yearly theme is 5k. It's not the same. It doesn't have the same ring
0:27:23to it, does it? Yeah. So one of the things that I spoke about was file management. And I mentioned
0:27:34that we were bumping up against the two terabytes that we have on iCloud. So we have an iCloud family,
0:27:41my wife and I, we have three kids. Two of those kids have iPhones. Third kid has an iPad that is
0:27:47basically just a video game and a math homework machine. And so we've got a shared photo library.
0:27:53The shared photo library, uh, is, has just crossed one terabyte in size, which is wild. And then of
0:28:01course the kids have their own and back device backups, all that sort of stuff. It's like, well,
0:28:06I need to address this. So, uh, I said this and lots of people, and I appreciate the feedback,
0:28:12um, said, Hey, you don't have to go to six terabytes. There's this option where you can upgrade
0:28:19and add an additional two terabytes. So you'd be at four terabytes total for an additional $9.99 a month,
0:28:27as opposed to the $29.99 a month, the six terabyte costs.
0:28:32This is literally what I wanted to do a few days ago. Oh my God.
0:28:35Okay. So you're adding two terabytes on top of your current two terabytes for four terabytes total.
0:28:40And it was how much a month? Like $20 a month?
0:28:42An extra $10 a month.
0:28:44Okay. On top.
0:28:47On top. Six terabytes is $30 a month, which is a little more than twice the cost. Um, so it's like,
0:28:56great. I'll just add two terabytes. I'll just kick the can down the road. And maybe by the time we
0:29:03hit four terabytes, you know, maybe one of the kids will be off and they'll be, you know, out of the
0:29:08iCloud family doing their own thing. So I go to settings, just boop-a-doop-doop-doop.
0:29:12Do kids ever leave the iCloud family? I feel like they don't.
0:29:14I mean, maybe eventually. It's like when they leave the cell phone playing, you know, like,
0:29:17I don't know. First time parent of teenagers.
0:29:20Do they need their own family for that?
0:29:22Maybe.
0:29:23I don't know. You'll find out. Let us know.
0:29:25Also, I find it a little frustrating that you can only have six people in an iCloud family plan.
0:29:30Oh.
0:29:31So that's important. I'm going to come back to that. Just stick that behind your ear like a pencil.
0:29:39Or a piece of gum.
0:29:41Cigarette. Whatever.
0:29:43So, boop-a-doop-a-doop, go to settings. I do not have this option. I see two terabytes and I see
0:29:50six terabytes. This upgrade options. And I'm going to put a screenshot in the show notes that our friend
0:29:57Casey Liss, he was listening to the show and sent me this. I was like, oh, just hit this button. I was
0:30:05like, yeah, I don't have that button. That's the problem. And I figured, well, you know, probably
0:30:13something weird going on. I'll deal with it later on. But then, over the weekend, I don't know what
0:30:22happened. Actually, I do know what happened. My wife and one of our kids was out of town and we hit the two
0:30:26terabyte limit. Because, like, they were out of town doing a bunch of video stuff.
0:30:29That's so good.
0:30:30Hit the limit. I'm like, well, I don't have time to deal with this today. Let me temporarily... I'll do the
0:30:37six terabytes. I'll just... I'll do this temporarily. And then when I get some time, I will deal with it.
0:30:46I'll, you know...
0:30:46So this is moving up to the six terabyte monthly plan.
0:30:52Yeah. So now I have six terabytes total. It's way more than I need. It's more than I want to pay
0:30:57for. Mike, I put a URL to the image in the Notion for you. And I was like, well, I'll just... I'll deal
0:31:04with it later. So it turns out later was only one day because I ended up having some free time on
0:31:10Monday. I was like, well, I'll just chat with AppleCare. And, you know, they'll fix it for me.
0:31:17So contact Apple support via online chat. They initially said that upgrading like this
0:31:23wasn't possible, that it was two terabytes or six terabytes. There was no upgrade option.
0:31:28So I had the screenshot from Casey. I dropped it in the chat. I said, hey, I get that. But
0:31:33it does seem to be an option. You know, this is from a friend of mine. And so I don't understand
0:31:40like why I don't have it. They asked if I had family sharing on, which I confirmed.
0:31:44And they said, well, you can purchase an additional two terabytes on another person
0:31:51in your iCloud family. And that space will be basically donated into the family pool.
0:31:57I was like, great. That's not what Casey did. But, you know, if it works, it works.
0:32:01Why can't you do that?
0:32:02Well, just hold on to that too.
0:32:04I mean, I'm just on this ride with you, by the way.
0:32:06Put that behind your other ear.
0:32:08You're getting...
0:32:08Michael, I have so many ears by the end of this.
0:32:10I'm just, you know, we're on this ride of use, you know, so I'm like upset on your behalf.
0:32:16So I grabbed Mary's MacBook Pro and I buy two terabytes of space as her.
0:32:21Now, the space does not show up in the iCloud family.
0:32:27Like they said.
0:32:28So you're doing this while you're still in the active chat with the representative?
0:32:32And at this point, I start live tweeting into Notion because like, oh, this is something
0:32:38that's happening here.
0:32:39So I asked the person, hey, there's not, I don't see any UI to like donate this space to
0:32:47the family, nor was that a term that I was familiar with.
0:32:50And remember, dear listener, I do this for a living.
0:32:53Like just keep...
0:32:55Apple tech support.
0:32:56Yeah.
0:32:56I mean, I'm on a podcast called Mac Power Users.
0:32:59Like, I'm not, I'm not unfamiliar with how these things work.
0:33:02Did you say that to the person at Apple?
0:33:03I did not.
0:33:04I don't think, I don't think you know who you're dealing with here.
0:33:07Did you know I used to be a genius?
0:33:08I'm a Mac Power Users.
0:33:09I could fix this if it was mobile me, you know, that's how old my shirts are.
0:33:14Yeah, yeah.
0:33:15At this point, I hear boop, boop.
0:33:18And the chat has just switched to a new person.
0:33:20Like the person didn't tell me they were sending me somewhere else.
0:33:25Just a new person comes up.
0:33:26Well, it's because you become a problem.
0:33:28Yes, I think.
0:33:29They've escalated you.
0:33:30I have been escalated.
0:33:32They verify my identity with a push notification because they're going to like, this person
0:33:38is going to like, look at my account and see what's going on.
0:33:40They see the six terabytes and say, oh, I can just downgrade you to four.
0:33:45I was like, great.
0:33:46Maybe the UI isn't showing up for me for some reason.
0:33:49Now I have looked at my phone and my Mac at this point.
0:33:51I was like, great.
0:33:52If you can just fix it, that's fine.
0:33:55And if I ever need to go above four, then I'll just go to six on my own.
0:33:58And then the chat goes quiet for a little while.
0:34:01Like, okay, there, you know, I'm sure they're helping more than one person at once.
0:34:05It's Monday.
0:34:05It's a holiday.
0:34:06They're probably, you know, busy, whatever.
0:34:09And they say, hey, to do this, I need you to log in and downgrade all the way down to
0:34:15the free five gigabyte plan.
0:34:17This is terrible.
0:34:19Because the way iCloud billing works is you have the amount of space you pay for until
0:34:24the next billing cycle.
0:34:25So you'll have your six terabytes or whatever until, you know, the 18th or whatever, the
0:34:3119th, whatever it was.
0:34:32No.
0:34:34And then they say, is there anything else I can help you with today?
0:34:36I'm like, whoa, we didn't solve anything.
0:34:40We're not done.
0:34:41All you've done is you've downgraded me from six terabytes to five gigabytes.
0:34:46And I'm pretty sure that's going to be a problem in, you know, 24 days or whatever.
0:34:50Yeah.
0:34:51But is there anything else that they can help with?
0:34:53You know, while we're at it.
0:34:55Yeah.
0:34:56One of my HomePods is buzzing.
0:34:57Can you help with that?
0:34:58And so I'm just like, no, this is not fixed.
0:35:03Like, we haven't done anything.
0:35:04So then they say, let me explain it to you.
0:35:08And then they say, I'll be right back.
0:35:11And I'm just like, on hold again.
0:35:12It's like, oh, wow.
0:35:13Checking my email, you know?
0:35:15Wow.
0:35:15And then they say, hey, we need to escalate this to a senior advisor.
0:35:19Can they call you?
0:35:21I'm like, yes, absolutely.
0:35:23You know, here's my phone number.
0:35:25What is this chain of command here?
0:35:27I don't know.
0:35:28This is absurd, right?
0:35:30Like, you're done.
0:35:32Okay, no, I'm not.
0:35:33Well, then, somebody else has to step in.
0:35:35Yeah.
0:35:36It's very strange.
0:35:37So here we are.
0:35:38Can they call you?
0:35:40I'm like, great.
0:35:42And then the chat person says, they can call you right now if that's going to be.
0:35:46He's like, yes, great.
0:35:47I'm at my desk.
0:35:47Like, let's do it.
0:35:48The phone calls.
0:35:49It always makes me laugh because AppleCare in the US, a lot of it's in Austin, Texas.
0:35:55And their area code is 512.
0:35:56And so I just kind of get a little chuckle.
0:35:59You know, it's like, because I have a website with those digits.
0:36:02Do you ever tell them that?
0:36:03I did not.
0:36:05I should have said, look.
0:36:06I'm a Mac Power user and my website.
0:36:08Have you heard of Performa Month?
0:36:10That was me.
0:36:10You know?
0:36:11That was a big deal.
0:36:12I know it was a big deal around the water cooler.
0:36:13It was.
0:36:14That was me.
0:36:14I did that.
0:36:15So get on the phone.
0:36:17And I should say, like, all these people, very nice.
0:36:21My problem has not been solved, but, like, courteous.
0:36:25Except the one who told you to downgrade to 512.
0:36:28Except that person.
0:36:29That person had balance in their heart.
0:36:31That person hated you.
0:36:33Yeah.
0:36:33How can I wreck this dude's iCloud account?
0:36:36They were like, oh, yeah, this is the Mac Power users guy.
0:36:39Yeah, I'll show him.
0:36:41Put your photos back on Dropbox, you know?
0:36:45So the person on the phone said that having 2 terabytes and upgrading to 2 more terabytes
0:36:52is not a feature that's supported.
0:36:54And that they don't know what image I saw, but it's not possible.
0:37:01The plans are 2 terabytes and 6 terabytes.
0:37:05I'm like, well, I know that's not true.
0:37:08But at this point, my nerd overhead timer in Timery has been running for 2 hours.
0:37:15Like, I can't, like, I just, I'll set it back to 2 terabytes.
0:37:19I'm going to upgrade it from 5 gigs.
0:37:21I'm going to set it to 2 terabytes.
0:37:22Because I still have the 6 until the end of the month.
0:37:25And, like, I will call AppleCare in a couple days and, like, sort it out.
0:37:29So I was told the guy, I was like, oh, okay, thanks.
0:37:32I'll just do 6 terabytes, like, just to get off the phone.
0:37:34And that guy was pretty short with me.
0:37:37And I, that was reflected in my feedback that I gave.
0:37:40You know, they send you, like, a thing.
0:37:41I don't want to get anybody in trouble, but, like, he was just rushing me off the phone.
0:37:46So I was like, well, I'll deal with this.
0:37:49We have information that you believe to be incorrect as well.
0:37:52Yes, that I know is incorrect.
0:37:54Because, like, my email and mentions have been full all week of people telling me, just go to 4 terabytes.
0:37:58Which, again, I appreciate.
0:37:59Like, somebody emailed me with, like, steps how to do it.
0:38:02Awesome.
0:38:03Thank you.
0:38:04So I hang up the phone, and at this point, I'm a little, I'm not, I'm a little mad.
0:38:09I'm a little upset.
0:38:10And then, I had my brain wave, gentlemen.
0:38:14It was like lightning struck my brain, is how this felt.
0:38:19Okay.
0:38:20Wow.
0:38:20The plus 2 terabyte option is only available if you have Apple One, which I do, right?
0:38:30I don't pay just for iCloud, I pay for Apple One, because News Plus, Apple TV Plus, Fitness, all that stuff, right?
0:38:36But, I use a separate Apple ID for purchases than I do for iCloud.
0:38:44Oh.
0:38:46I feel like at this point, all my blame has moved to you.
0:38:51No, well, let me, there's more Apple blame coming.
0:38:55Okay.
0:38:57My Apple One is owned by that account, not my iCloud account.
0:39:03And, that account is not part of my iCloud family.
0:39:08Steven, what?
0:39:10What was the problem?
0:39:11Why is that?
0:39:15Why would you do that?
0:39:17Because at some point, I changed the Apple ID I was using, but all my purchases were like, lots of people do this.
0:39:23Like, it's very common.
0:39:24Can you walk me through that one more time?
0:39:26So, my, my, I'm calling it legacy Apple ID, just like, just so we can talk about this.
0:39:32I also renamed it legacy Steven, so I could tell the difference between the two of them now.
0:39:38That is with an old Mac.com email address that I didn't want to use anymore.
0:39:43This is when I was using iCloud for my email.
0:39:45And so, I signed up in the mobile me era for a different email address.
0:39:52And, you couldn't, you know, you've never been able to move purchases.
0:39:57And, that was before iCloud family sharing, right?
0:40:00This is in the mobile me days.
0:40:01And so, I, then, at that moment in 2011, past even made a mistake.
0:40:07Where he said, I'll use my new Apple ID for all my syncing stuff, but an Apple, up until this very specific feature, supports you logging in with a separate Apple ID for purchases.
0:40:20It's right built into system settings, and to this day, you can have your Apple ID, and you can have a purchase ID.
0:40:25We'll call it the old .Mac one.
0:40:27Yeah, legacy Steven.
0:40:28Yeah, legacy Apple ID.
0:40:29Yeah.
0:40:30Legacy.
0:40:30And the mobile me one is what you have used as essentially what is now your Apple account.
0:40:36Yes.
0:40:36Okay.
0:40:37But, I've still been purchasing things logged in as my old Apple ID.
0:40:42My whole family has.
0:40:42And, I never brought that account into my iCloud family setup for two reasons.
0:40:50One, I wasn't sure that it was, wasn't going to break anything, right?
0:40:55It's like, oh, gosh, if I bring this in, what's going to happen?
0:40:58So, I've been nervous about that.
0:41:00Three reasons, really.
0:41:01How did you pay for Apple One, then?
0:41:02I don't understand that part.
0:41:04The second reason is that iCloud family sharing only has six spots, and we have five people in our household.
0:41:13Our wife and I, we have three children.
0:41:15I've kind of held that six spot open if, like, we need to bring one of our parents for some reason into it or, you know, somebody else.
0:41:25Like, I've just kind of had it there, open.
0:41:28And, thirdly, I have, other than having to sign in to two different accounts, like, one in iCloud settings, one in the App Store settings, this has not caused a problem until now.
0:41:39It has been, it has worked perfectly for over 10 years since 2011, Stephen made this decision.
0:41:48It's been fine.
0:41:50It's a little annoying when you set up a new device because you have to sign in with two Apple IDs, but it's supported.
0:41:55It works.
0:41:56But not if you want to upgrade because adding an additional two terabytes to your account is only supported if you have Apple One.
0:42:10And I technically don't because my store account does, not my iCloud account.
0:42:15So, the thing that I'm just, I'm a little lost on, right?
0:42:19Sure.
0:42:19Yeah, this is confusing.
0:42:21And, like, you know, people have already hung up the show, but it is confusing.
0:42:25The old Apple ID pays for Apple One.
0:42:28It's not in your family.
0:42:30How are you an Apple One subscriber?
0:42:32It's a different person.
0:42:34Because I'm signed in to all the media apps.
0:42:37Like, in system settings, if you go to settings on your phone or your Mac or whatever, there are two places to put an Apple ID.
0:42:44You have your Apple account, and then you have media and purchases.
0:42:49Media and purchases was signed into my legacy account, and that gave me access to all the Apple One stuff through that account.
0:42:57What about your family?
0:42:58Same thing.
0:42:59They're signed in as their individual accounts, and then my legacy Apple ID for their purchases in media.
0:43:04Oh, that's, so you're doing a really weird family-sharing setup, aren't you?
0:43:10Probably.
0:43:11And I'm sure there are other people who do this, but yes, it's definitely not ideal.
0:43:16In theory, the kids have their own, and they can't buy anything without your push notification, and then you allow it.
0:43:23That's how family sharing is supposed to work, but that's not how it's working in your house, right?
0:43:27It's working because they hand me their phone, and I do it.
0:43:30They have to get you to do it.
0:43:33So they have Apple One because the iPhone essentially thinks you're logged in, not because there's a family thing, but that's okay.
0:43:43And honestly, because it's been working, I was like, I just never have to deal with this.
0:43:49And you maybe didn't think about it when this whole process began.
0:43:52It did not cross my mind, nor, this is my complaint with Apple, nor did it cross the mind of any of the three people, including the senior advisor I spoke to.
0:44:03You must be one of the 20 people in the world that's still doing this, though.
0:44:07Come on.
0:44:08If you're still doing this, let us know.
0:44:09I still have these separate accounts.
0:44:12There you go.
0:44:13Yeah, but you've also done the wrong thing in asking our listeners to contact us about this.
0:44:19Sure.
0:44:19Right.
0:44:19Okay.
0:44:21Everyone that does this is listening to this show right now.
0:44:24Ask on the pen addict next week and see what those people say.
0:44:26They won't even know what I'm talking about.
0:44:33This, we could have gotten to the bottom of this if any of those people had said, do you use a separate Apple ID for iCloud and purchasing?
0:44:40But they didn't, and maybe to your point, because most people don't do it.
0:44:44But this was my thought.
0:44:46I was like, oh, I bet because I do this, I, for some reason, and I think it's probably a bug on Apple's part, or maybe they just don't want people to do it this way anymore.
0:44:57I'm forbidden from this sweet two terabyte fruit.
0:45:00I cannot have it.
0:45:01So I'm like, look, I'm going to add Legacy Steven to the family.
0:45:08Oh, my word.
0:45:10Legacy Steven.
0:45:12Legacy Steven.
0:45:13So that Apple ID, I changed the icon.
0:45:16It's my little 16-bit version of me, but on a gray background instead of the blue one, so I can tell them apart visually.
0:45:21And I literally named him Legacy Steven.
0:45:23So it looks like you're dead, basically.
0:45:25Yeah.
0:45:26Who now can never be in my iCloud family because I took the last spot.
0:45:30Sorry, Dad.
0:45:31And I guess no more kids, you know.
0:45:33Oh, that was already dealt with.
0:45:35So I add Legacy Steven.
0:45:40I do this by, I have a MacBook Air that I use for testing.
0:45:43And so I just made a new account on that and signed that into that Legacy ID, like, fully, so it could get the invite to join the family.
0:45:50So I did that.
0:45:54It took a while for it to show up, but it did, you know, maybe an hour later.
0:46:00I later found a support document that, and I put it in the show notes, but I can't find it again, that says family sharing changes may take up to 30 minutes to go into effect.
0:46:12What is that?
0:46:17But added Legacy Steven to the family.
0:46:17And this is when things get real weird.
0:46:24Upon doing that, my iCloud account now has eight terabytes of storage.
0:46:31It now has my six plus Mary's two that the first person had me buy.
0:46:38I don't know why that is.
0:46:41Maybe you have to wait for the billing cycle to end for the two terabytes to go away?
0:46:45I think, yeah.
0:46:46So I set it back to two terabytes, and I think next month it'll roll off, and then I can go to four terabytes.
0:46:51I have a task to remind me to do that next month.
0:46:53Although I will also get the very scary email of like, you're out of iCloud space.
0:46:57It was a real fun notification to get over a weekend.
0:47:02So now I'm in this situation.
0:47:03Okay, Legacy Steven is in the family.
0:47:06I enable all the shared purchase stuff.
0:47:09So I, at this point, I'm going to do it right from here on out.
0:47:16So I sign out of that Apple ID everywhere.
0:47:18Everyone now is using their same Apple ID for purchasing and for the media stuff.
0:47:30And that actually went pretty well.
0:47:32It wasn't until that evening that any of the shared stuff worked.
0:47:37So I went into like the TV app and tried to play something out of that Legacy account, and it was like, gave me an error.
0:47:45So everybody else's devices now, they're not signed into Legacy Steven anymore?
0:47:51Right.
0:47:52Legacy Steven has been deprecated.
0:47:53Well, I mean, he's still there, right?
0:47:57He's still there.
0:47:57He's still like hanging around.
0:47:59And his stuff is shared into the family.
0:48:00So the other thing I did at this point was, because I wasn't sure like what the Apple One would do.
0:48:09So I moved the Apple One purchase to my iCloud account instead of the Legacy one.
0:48:16I did not make Legacy Steven a parent or a guardian.
0:48:19I just made it.
0:48:20He's just like a regular family member.
0:48:21So, you should have asked OTG for advice, you know, OTG with his fake kid in iCloud.
0:48:31Yeah.
0:48:32Serenity had one for a long time, too, that she made like in her iMore days.
0:48:35Like, and you can't get rid of them.
0:48:37It's really weird.
0:48:40So moving forward, what is going to happen?
0:48:44In a month, I will hopefully be able to upgrade and have just four terabytes of iCloud space and not six or eight that I currently have, which is really funny when you log into iCloud.
0:48:55The little thing of like how much storage space you're taking, mine is so funny looking because most of it's just empty.
0:49:02I moved the Apple One over so it will expire for Legacy Steven and my, you know, normal Apple ID will pick that up.
0:49:10And I'm also doing that with the regular, with my app subscriptions.
0:49:14I had a handful of app subscriptions.
0:49:16I'm going to let them expire and then move them over to my main account.
0:49:19So at the end of all of this, in like a year, when all my, because one of my, I forget what it was.
0:49:26I just had like one of my main app subscriptions, maybe it was Carrot Weather, just renewed like three days before.
0:49:31So like in a year, all of that will be moved over.
0:49:34And then Legacy Steven will just have our up to this point media purchases, which is mostly, you know, movies and TV shows and stuff.
0:49:42Yeah.
0:49:43And that does now work.
0:49:45There'll be apps in there.
0:49:45There'll be a bunch of apps in there.
0:49:46A bunch of apps are in there, but I could download them.
0:49:49Like it all seems to be working the way it's supposed to.
0:49:51That all did not work the first day.
0:49:53It took more than 30 minutes for it to sort of settle down.
0:49:56But, you know, I also made a lot of changes to my accounts kind of all at once.
0:50:01A side effect of this is this totally broke.
0:50:07And I probably should have seen it coming.
0:50:08It totally broke my music library on my devices.
0:50:12Yeah.
0:50:14No.
0:50:16And it seems to just be my devices.
0:50:19And so I'm not like tooling around on Mary's phone.
0:50:24Her music seems OK, but I'm pretty sure that her.
0:50:29Her thing is just Apple Music.
0:50:31I don't think she has any.
0:50:32I think we like set her up a new library at some point.
0:50:35Mine has a bunch of purchase stuff from that old account.
0:50:38And the music app is real mad about playing that now, even though in theory the content should be shared.
0:50:45It doesn't seem to work.
0:50:46Is content shared like that?
0:50:49Like music?
0:50:50Movies and TV shows are, and music is listed in Apple's support documents as content that can't be shared.
0:50:56But it doesn't seem to be working.
0:50:58So I was like, well, that's weird.
0:51:03For hours, on and off, it would show loading your cloud library.
0:51:08This may take several minutes in the music app.
0:51:11It took several days.
0:51:13Do you remember you had to do those authorizations?
0:51:16Do you remember that?
0:51:18Yeah, you still have to do that, actually.
0:51:20I wonder if maybe music, there is something weird with music.
0:51:25Maybe, because music, remember, is iTunes.
0:51:27Yes, exactly.
0:51:29I wonder if music is different to movies and TV in that way.
0:51:34I don't know.
0:51:34And Zach points out, like, is this pre-iTunes Plus, which is the DRM-free music?
0:51:39It very well could be.
0:51:41Man, we're learning a lot about the past today.
0:51:45Things I haven't thought about for a very, very long time.
0:51:47iTunes Plus.
0:51:48Yeah.
0:51:49Yeah.
0:51:50And so what I did was I took my music folder, put it on my desktop.
0:51:55I was like, look, I'm just going to rebuild it.
0:51:59Like, I don't think I'll ever find all the bugs in this.
0:52:02And so I set up a new music library.
0:52:05And because I had all my music downloaded locally on my Mac, so I have all the folders,
0:52:10so I know everything that I had.
0:52:11And I'm just like, you know, a little bit at a time working my way through that.
0:52:17I have some music that, you know, is not in Apple Music that like, you know, like, you
0:52:22know, I bought it off Bandcamp or something.
0:52:23And so I'm just dragging those in as local files and letting it sync.
0:52:26And it seems to be working.
0:52:28Music on the Mac is really buggy.
0:52:30Like, trying to add a bunch of music in bulk and it just, it just like gives up.
0:52:34It's like, oh no, these are duplicate files or the network is offline.
0:52:38It's like, neither of those things are true.
0:52:39You have a new music library folder and I'm browsing the internet.
0:52:44Like, it's not down.
0:52:45But I'm slowly digging my way out.
0:52:47But it's a mess.
0:52:49It's a real mess.
0:52:50Do you wish you would have just done the six-tar?
0:52:53I mean, so what I told Mary is like, this is saving us, I mean, if this works, it'll save
0:52:59us like $240 a year or whatever.
0:53:02I've spent more money than that in my own time by now.
0:53:04So that's rough.
0:53:06That's the way.
0:53:08But I mean, it is ultimately going to fix my, like, split Apple ID thing.
0:53:13But I shouldn't have had to fix it.
0:53:15Like, Apple should have this set up where I could just do it.
0:53:18But, you know, and maybe it would have worked if Legacy Steven had been in the family.
0:53:23But at that point, I was just kind of committed to, let me just actually, like, just rip the
0:53:31Band-Aid off.
0:53:32But this was no help to Apple.
0:53:35And if I had not had this, like, idea strike me, who knows where I would be.
0:53:39But there you go.
0:53:42That's been the last couple days of my life.
0:53:43And it's real fun.
0:53:44What a disaster.
0:53:46Mm-hmm.
0:53:47This is rough.
0:53:49I feel bad for you.
0:53:50This is, there's a thing that came up yesterday.
0:53:55I was seeing my mom yesterday.
0:53:57And she's, like, showing me her phone.
0:53:58And she's, like, it keeps telling me.
0:54:01I need to, I'm running out of space in my iCloud.
0:54:05And I don't know what to do about it.
0:54:07And she was on the, I convinced my mom that she should pay 99 pence per month.
0:54:13This was a while back.
0:54:15To get iCloud storage, right?
0:54:18She was on the 5 gigabyte free.
0:54:19And then I had to convince her to pay 99 pence a month to get the 50 gigabyte.
0:54:23And now she's getting to the top of that.
0:54:25And I'm like, look, you should go up to 299.
0:54:28It's, like, four times the amount of space.
0:54:30It will be ages until you hit this.
0:54:32And she's like, can't I just delete stuff?
0:54:34And I'm like, yeah, but then you've deleted stuff.
0:54:36Like, I don't recommend this.
0:54:38And so I ended up convincing her to do that.
0:54:41But this is just me adding on to this whole thing of, like, all of this is bad, right?
0:54:48Like, the way in which Apple does iCloud backup, like, every part of it is bad.
0:54:53You should have way more flexibility about the storage that you want, like, what you're dealing with.
0:54:58Just to be able to add stuff, that should be easy.
0:55:01Even though maybe it is, unless you're Steven.
0:55:03But today, in 2025, starting at 5 gigabytes for free and then 50 gigabytes and then going up to 200.
0:55:13Like, the tiers are madness.
0:55:165 gigabytes, 50 gigabytes, 200 gigabytes, 2 terabytes, 6 terabytes, 12 terabytes.
0:55:22That's the jumping.
0:55:23Like, Apple, come on, man.
0:55:25Like, just, let's do something different here.
0:55:28Let's start with free at 50 gigabytes and then work out the rest from there.
0:55:32Like, this system is just, like, it's so bad.
0:55:38Like, it's so bad.
0:55:39But that was the only thing that I wanted to add on.
0:55:41I did have the thought, I have a family plan with me, and I had the thought of, like,
0:55:46do I want to put my mom on my family plan?
0:55:48And I was just, I was like, this feels like it's going to cause me more problems.
0:55:53And I don't know what problems they are, but I don't want to be responsible for whatever they are.
0:55:58And so I was like, mom just paid two pounds that now a month.
0:56:01And I convinced her to do it, and she's done it.
0:56:02Yeah.
0:56:03I mean, unfortunately, that is the answer, is to pay Apple for storage that, I mean, five gigabytes is ridiculous for free.
0:56:12Like, I had that thought again, like, when I hit the button, which I felt wrong.
0:56:16It's like, okay, I'm going to hit the button because the person told me to.
0:56:18Maybe they know something I don't know.
0:56:19Turns out that wasn't true.
0:56:21It's really ridiculous.
0:56:24And the pricing and the spacing is weird.
0:56:27Like, going from two terabytes to six terabytes.
0:56:30You can go up to 12, I think.
0:56:32Yep.
0:56:33With some steps in between, you know, if you have everything, if the stars align for you.
0:56:38But it feels pretty punitive, and they have done some things I want to give them credit for.
0:56:43If you buy a new phone, you temporarily get in a fire cloud space to back it up to move to a new phone.
0:56:47But then it goes away.
0:56:49Like, you should get a set amount of storage for a year or two years when you buy a device.
0:56:54And beyond that, the prices should be cheaper and the spacing of the things being a bit more even.
0:57:04Like, you said 50 to 200.
0:57:06200 gigabytes to two terabytes.
0:57:08It's a 10x jump.
0:57:09Like, what are we doing?
0:57:10Why is there not a 500 gig?
0:57:11Like, I don't, I would not, you know, for all of Apple's price laddering, there's an iPad at this and an iPad at that.
0:57:19And an iPhone costs this and $7 more, you get this iPhone.
0:57:21Like, do it with your cloud storage, too.
0:57:24So people can just increment up as they need to.
0:57:27And it's really frustrating that it's so convoluted.
0:57:32And it was really frustrating doing all of this, not only because of the Apple ID and the Apple, excuse me, Apple account stuff.
0:57:38I've been using the wrong term the whole show.
0:57:41So much of this stuff is so buggy, especially on the Mac where I was doing most of this because I was just at my desk.
0:57:47Like, you go click like an iCloud thing and a sheet would come up in system settings and there'd be no CSS in it.
0:57:54It was all like plain text.
0:57:56Or you want to be able to scroll in the window or you try it on the phone and the phone freezes.
0:58:01Like, so much of this stuff.
0:58:03Why does it take 30 minutes for sharing to take place?
0:58:06And even for me, it was hours later before content started being available.
0:58:09Like, so much of this stuff is broken.
0:58:12And it's really frustrating when you're trying to get something done in a system that's already confusing and convoluted.
0:58:18And again, punitive with their pricing.
0:58:20And then to add on, like, the buttons just don't work sometimes.
0:58:24It was really, really frustrating.
0:58:26Yeah, I assume it is built on a set of old technology, right?
0:58:32Like, it is set on, like, really old stuff.
0:58:35Yep.
0:58:35With a front end built in SwiftUI, which is just, it's a real good combination, really.
0:58:42RoyalRambo asks, can we get Legacy Steven on the show next week?
0:58:50I'm pretty sure we always have Legacy Steven on the show.
0:58:52I think that's the one we talk to.
0:58:55Maybe.
0:58:55Maybe.
0:58:56And there's a different Steven that's out there in the world.
0:58:59Doing stuff.
0:59:01Well, Legacy Steven knows everything about MobileMe.
0:59:04That's true.
0:59:05.Mac, right?
0:59:07And that's the one you bring to the show.
0:59:08But, like, when you're out there buying smoothies and shaking hands with the people,
0:59:13that's the new Steven.
0:59:16New and improved Steven.
0:59:17Yeah.
0:59:18Fresh Steven.
0:59:19I had a smoothie with somebody this morning.
0:59:21That's what I'm saying.
0:59:23I know what you're doing.
0:59:24And I know you're not telling that person about MobileMe.
0:59:26No.
0:59:26You're bringing that to this show.
0:59:28It is funny that, you know, MobileMe's cursedness has followed me all the way into 2025.
0:59:32Was MobileMe, that was the one that was really bad?
0:59:35Yeah.
0:59:36Like, it launched really bad and, like, everything was a disaster?
0:59:39Mm-hmm.
0:59:39Yeah.
0:59:40And then they rebranded it to iCloud, right?
0:59:42Yeah.
0:59:43Rebuilt from the ground up.
0:59:45Or whatever.
0:59:47Not for you.
0:59:49Not for me.
0:59:50So, if you don't know about MobileMe, I'll put something in the show notes about it.
0:59:55It's a fun time.
0:59:58So, anyways, that's my story.
0:59:59Thank you for listening.
0:59:59Congrats.
1:00:01Thank you.
1:00:02What a story.
1:00:03Yeah.
1:00:04Were you talking to this support person through iMessage?
1:00:08No, it was on the web.
1:00:09See, I had to do a thing recently.
1:00:14I don't remember what it was, but I had to cancel an order or something, and I was talking
1:00:19through iMessage.
1:00:20Yeah, the retail stuff seems to use iMessage, because I had an issue with, like, an order
1:00:26where, like, the credit card got declined, and they're like, chat with us.
1:00:29And so I did it, and it was over iMessage.
1:00:31But this is, I don't know, like, is it, maybe it's because I was on a Mac, so it was
1:00:36like, oh, well, let's open a Safari window.
1:00:38But it didn't look like iMessage.
1:00:40It just looked like sort of generic, you know, web chat stuff.
1:00:43I guess that was business chat.
1:00:45Is that what that was called?
1:00:46Yes.
1:00:47And the icons are squares.
1:00:48Everything's gray.
1:00:49Yeah, and it's gray, right?
1:00:51Like, the actual messages.
1:00:53More people, more companies should use that.
1:00:55I like being able to have these conversations in iMessage, rather than trying to keep some,
1:00:59like, Safari tab open on my iPhone.
1:01:01So, I looked at this, for us, as, like, a membership support thing.
1:01:07Like, oh, you can just, like, text us.
1:01:08Oh, that's terrible.
1:01:08And we'll fix it.
1:01:09Yeah, but then you're texting Fable all the time.
1:01:11You're texting Kathy, is what you're doing.
1:01:13Why would you do that to her?
1:01:15That's a terrible idea.
1:01:16Well, so the back end is not, I looked at it when it first came out.
1:01:21It could be different now.
1:01:21If you have, actually, I would like to know if you first had experience with this from,
1:01:25like, the business side.
1:01:25Send us some feedback.
1:01:26I'd love to know how it works today.
1:01:29But when I looked at it the first time, first of all, it was extremely complicated to set
1:01:33up.
1:01:33Now, there's probably, like, companies that can do it for you as, like, a service.
1:01:36But it was on the web on the back end.
1:01:39Like, it wasn't coming to a phone.
1:01:40I don't, my recollection is that it was, like, a web dashboard thing.
1:01:44Yeah, surely, surely.
1:01:45But, you know, you can always email us if you have something.
1:01:48Email is fine.
1:01:50I, like, have a somewhat similar thing right now where, you know, with the new Apple Mail
1:01:55stuff, you can, like, brand your company.
1:01:58Yeah.
1:01:58You know, like, so you can, like, be brand.
1:02:00I have my assistant looking at that for Cortex Brand, and it seems like it is very complicated.
1:02:04Like, she's asking me a lot of questions.
1:02:07I think we did it for Mac Stories.
1:02:10Yeah.
1:02:10I think.
1:02:11Yeah.
1:02:11It's in the process.
1:02:14I think we're waiting for business verification now.
1:02:16But none of this stuff is easy, but I guess it's better to be that than to just, I don't
1:02:21know, have me pretend that I'm Disney or something.
1:02:23You could, I mean, just put it all in your email signature, you know, with, like, a picture
1:02:29and, like, please consider this email before printing.
1:02:31And a quote.
1:02:32You know?
1:02:32And a quote.
1:02:33And a quote.
1:02:33Design is not how it looks.
1:02:36Design is how it works.
1:02:37Whoa, I like that one.
1:02:39Steve Jobs.
1:02:40I like that one.
1:02:40You know what device he was talking about when he said that?
1:02:43The Cube.
1:02:44Federico, do you have a guess?
1:02:46Okay.
1:02:50It was the iPod.
1:02:51The iPod.
1:02:51Oh, it was the mouse.
1:02:52The circular mouse?
1:02:53Nope.
1:02:53The blue and white Power Mac G3.
1:02:56It had the door that opened down so you get to all the parts inside.
1:02:59And he made a joke about we have the best access story in the business.
1:03:03It's called a door, which is a very funny line.
1:03:06And he said, we believe design, it's not just how it looks, it's how it works.
1:03:10Power Mac G3.
1:03:14Legacy Steven.
1:03:14He's here all the time.
1:03:15Yeah.
1:03:16See, I told you.
1:03:17We definitely, we don't need more of that guy.
1:03:19We have the perfect amount.
1:03:21We don't need to bring on another Legacy Steven to this show.
1:03:24Okay.
1:03:25I'm going to do the Legacy closing now.
1:03:27Oh, I don't know.
1:03:28People will get mad.
1:03:30No, someone wrote us in.
1:03:32They were mad about the goodbyes being in the wrong order.
1:03:34Yeah, no, I would like to read this piece of feedback.
1:03:36Oh, my God.
1:03:36Okay.
1:03:37I think this feedback is hilarious.
1:03:38Okay.
1:03:38Okay.
1:03:39I take this feedback in the manner in which it, I expect, is written in.
1:03:45Given.
1:03:45It looks like, yes, this comes from Fletcher who says,
1:03:49I may stop listening to the show if the goodbye isn't in the correct order.
1:03:53The ending is entertaining, but the goodbyes must stay.
1:03:55I like that piece of feedback because, look, I'm with Fletcher.
1:03:58I don't know how to end this show anymore.
1:04:00I love hearing Federico say all.
1:04:02No, people on the internet take things way too seriously sometimes.
1:04:06Yes, but I don't think that's it.
1:04:07It's a good vibe.
1:04:09It's a good vibe.
1:04:09I think you are taking it too seriously.
1:04:11I don't believe Fletcher is saying, I believe Fletcher is joking.
1:04:15Maybe Fletcher is being serious and they cannot handle it.
1:04:17No, I'm going to speak over you.
1:04:20I'm not going to go last anymore.
1:04:22Maybe Jim can just rearrange it for us.
1:04:24This is my protest now.
1:04:26Wait, so when we get to the same.
1:04:29We're protesting.
1:04:30How and what?
1:04:32I don't understand.
1:04:33I am going to say goodbye whenever I feel like it.
1:04:36Okay, but are you going to do the outro?
1:04:38No, I'm doing the outro.
1:04:39Okay.
1:04:40Legacy Steven is.
1:04:41Oh, okay.
1:04:42That's a shame.
1:04:43Hey, y'all.
1:04:47No, more Southern.
1:04:53More.
1:04:53Yeah, it's going to be more.
1:04:55I can't do high and Southern at the same time.
1:04:57Do how it really is.
1:04:59Or just go more Southern.
1:05:00What I want most is more Southern than high voice.
1:05:05I pitch Steven, yeah.
1:05:05Yeah.
1:05:06I'm going to give you some framing here, right?
1:05:09Okay.
1:05:10Yeah, you prompt me like I'm an LLM.
1:05:11Yeah, this is like a prompt.
1:05:13Okay.
1:05:13Yeah, sure.
1:05:14You are at Thanksgiving.
1:05:16It is day two of Thanksgiving, and you're surrounded by your cousins who don't appreciate the work
1:05:25that you do.
1:05:26That's true.
1:05:27Your cousins tend to know about the fact that your accent has changed.
1:05:30Consider this as you now give this closing.
1:05:35What you're trying to do is fit in at Thanksgiving around your family whose accents never changed.
1:05:41That's your prompt.
1:05:42Do I have to fit in like politically?
1:05:44That's up to you.
1:05:47I mean, this outro could get into a new world.
1:05:50Y'all, we're going to make the closing great again.
1:05:52We're doing it.
1:05:53Why would you?
1:05:54I just hit the desk really hard.
1:05:56We'd love to hear y'all's feedback.
1:06:00You want to go connectedfeedback.com.
1:06:05And if you want to become a member, I can't do it.
1:06:09If you want to become a member.
1:06:10No, you were doing it.
1:06:11It was good.
1:06:12It was good.
1:06:12You're doing it.
1:06:13If you want to become a member and get longer ad-free shows, getconnectedpro.com.
1:06:21It's on the internet.
1:06:25You can find Frederico.
1:06:27There it is.
1:06:29There it is.
1:06:30At maxstories.net.
1:06:32And he is vaticci.
1:06:34V-I-T-I-C-C-I across social media.
1:06:39He's on the TikTok.
1:06:42Across them socials.
1:06:44All right.
1:06:45You can follow Mike.
1:06:48It's so hard to do.
1:06:50Mike.
1:06:51Mike.
1:06:52Mike.
1:06:53Mike.
1:06:53My wife.
1:06:55Mike hosts a bunch of other shows across Relay.
1:06:59You can check out his work.
1:07:01Cortex Brand.
1:07:03It's just hard to do.
1:07:04Brand.
1:07:05This is perfect.
1:07:07And he's I, Mike, or Mike Hurley.
1:07:09That's Forrest Gump.
1:07:10Stephen, is this cultural appropriation?
1:07:13I'm living in the South.
1:07:15I'm appropriating my cousins.
1:07:17What do you, though?
1:07:17Do you?
1:07:18Because it doesn't sound like you do.
1:07:19Nor does it sound how I used to sound, I don't think.
1:07:24You can find, I'm done.
1:07:26I'm done with it.
1:07:26You can find my writing.
1:07:28No, come on.
1:07:28Commit.
1:07:29No, commit.
1:07:30Come on.
1:07:30You're so close now.
1:07:31That's so embarrassing.
1:07:35You can find my writing at 512pixels.net.
1:07:42You just got to slow it down.
1:07:44You just got to slow it down.
1:07:45Yeah.
1:07:46Like some molasses.
1:07:47You got molasses in your mouth.
1:07:49And I co-host MPU on Relay.
1:07:56No, no, no.
1:07:57You didn't know.
1:07:58You did Relay better before.
1:07:59Relay.
1:08:01It's like Relay.
1:08:03Relay.
1:08:04Relay.
1:08:05Relay.fm.
1:08:06Em.
1:08:07Em.
1:08:08Em.
1:08:10So good.
1:08:11So good.
1:08:12How would you say it now?
1:08:13I don't even know how I sound anymore.
1:08:16Like, how would you say, how would you say,
1:08:19just like regularly say our URL?
1:08:21Relay.fm.
1:08:24Yeah, you really have worked that one out, huh?
1:08:27Em.
1:08:27Yeah.
1:08:28iPhone.
1:08:29Get it listed on your iPhone.
1:08:30iPhone.
1:08:32iPhone.
1:08:32Or your iPad.
1:08:34Just go back far enough.
1:08:35We're not making fun of people.
1:08:36We're making fun of Stephen.
1:08:38Yeah.
1:08:38If you want to hear, just go back.
1:08:40It's all on the website.
1:08:41Go.
1:08:42Relay.fm slash prompt.
1:08:44Just hit one of those and you'll hear it.
1:08:46Federico, if Italians listen to you,
1:08:49would they hear a difference?
1:08:50Oh, what do you mean?
1:08:52Like, because if, when I listen to me from then,
1:08:56I can hear how I have become more American in, in.
1:09:00Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
1:09:02I have a very thick Roman accent.
1:09:03But no, but like if people, if people, ah, okay.
1:09:08Yeah.
1:09:09But I guess what, probably what would be the case is
1:09:11if I listened to you then,
1:09:13I would hear a, a different English.
1:09:19Like, you've probably done what I've done.
1:09:21Like, I bet you spoke English then with a,
1:09:23with a more Italian, in a more Italian way than you do now.
1:09:26Oh, yeah.
1:09:26I think I did, yeah.
1:09:27Yeah, that's, that's what I'm looking for.
1:09:28But like, my Italian hasn't changed.
1:09:30Okay.
1:09:30But your English definitely has.
1:09:33Well, that's the hope.
1:09:34So I'm not.
1:09:35That's the problem.
1:09:36Okay.
1:09:39I'd like to thank Ecamm for sponsoring the show this week.
1:09:42Thank you, members.
1:09:42Ecamm.
1:09:44Can't mess.
1:09:45Carrie's hanging on to me for that.
1:09:46Learn more about them in the show notes.
1:09:48And until next week, y'all say goodbye.
1:09:52Cheerio.
1:09:55I mean, that's you.
1:09:56You didn't really do anything except pasta.
1:10:03No, I waited.
1:10:05I waited for you because I am not going first.
1:10:07But you didn't speak over me.
1:10:08You just spoke after me, but quickly.
1:10:10It's like, it's like you're trying to like sneak in a door as it's closing.
1:10:16Yeah.
1:10:17Bye, y'all.