00:00:00 ◼ ► from relay this is upgrade episode 563 for may 12th 2025 today's show is brought to you by
00:00:17 ◼ ► fitbond factor and ecamm my name is mike hurley and i have the pleasure as always of being joined
00:00:22 ◼ ► by jason snow hi jason hello mike hurley it is a pleasure as always to join you weather is nice
00:00:28 ◼ ► here in london right now we don't have time for that okay let's get to a snow talk question comes in
00:00:33 ◼ ► from jerry who wants to know do events go in your calendar in title case or sentence case or are you
00:00:40 ◼ ► one of those i don't know the all lowercase people or a chaos person um okay so this is a style guide
00:00:47 ◼ ► question which is great what a way to start the show it's a it's a style guide well we just onboarded
00:00:52 ◼ ► a new uh six colors writer glenn fleishman um who's going to be writing a help column for us
00:00:58 ◼ ► over at six colors you can actually you know just email glenn at six colors.com with your questions
00:01:03 ◼ ► and maybe i'll answer them on the uh on the website i'll put a link in the show notes to the post where
00:01:07 ◼ ► you talk all about it yeah and one of his questions for me was title case uh related and style guide
00:01:15 ◼ ► related and i i had that moment where i was like okay honestly the style guide doesn't exist and we
00:01:20 ◼ ► kind of make it up as we go and i generally just do it the way that i think i like it and i probably
00:01:26 ◼ ► should come up with a style guide at some point i ended up doing a google search to see how we've used
00:01:31 ◼ ► it in the past sort of a retroactive style guide and one of the things that i realized is his first post
00:01:37 ◼ ► was in uh in title case which is that you are capitalizing most but not all words in the headline
00:01:44 ◼ ► um and for those who don't know that is a that is a a thing that we don't do on six colors we actually
00:01:51 ◼ ► do our headlines in down style or sentence case where you only would capitalize you know proper the first
00:01:57 ◼ ► word and proper names but not and you know titles and and product names and things like that
00:02:03 ◼ ► but not every word um we live in there where the president of the united states post things typed
00:02:10 ◼ ► himself and they're randomly capitalized so present case it's you need a random number generator for
00:02:19 ◼ ► that anyway i um so so this is all a thing that most people don't care about but the people who do
00:02:26 ◼ ► care about it care about a great deal and a lot of times they're the ones involved in making the thing
00:02:29 ◼ ► you may not even notice it i also had to admit to glenn that the incomparables podcast titles as
00:02:40 ◼ ► i mean i have some reasons but they're not interesting does it bother you that you thought
00:02:46 ◼ ► of that like when you realized this was there any part of you that was bothered by it the truth is
00:02:52 ◼ ► i don't mind title case on podcast episodes because it's the episode of a podcast on headlines i always
00:02:57 ◼ ► thought it was a little bit much which is why i decided after years of doing it at mac world that
00:03:02 ◼ ► six colors wasn't going to do it i guess the funny thing though is that even though you use title
00:03:07 ◼ ► case the incomparable website publishes all titles in full all caps it's true that's a design it's a css
00:03:15 ◼ ► thing but they're all there in title case and when they show up yeah exactly which is the most
00:03:27 ◼ ► i'm a pretty i'm a pretty random capitalizer when i'm sending things off that don't matter
00:03:35 ◼ ► so when i looked at my calendar today what i found is that i had some events in all lowercase i had some
00:03:40 ◼ ► events that were in title case and i had some events that were in sentence case i think generally
00:03:44 ◼ ► if i'm not being lazy with the shift key every everything is in sentence case let me tell you
00:03:50 ◼ ► actually i'm gonna i'm gonna out jason snell here i'm gonna out yes okay you i i am often quite
00:03:56 ◼ ► surprised at how how often you write in all lowercase like in a show document and stuff yep yep like very
00:04:04 ◼ ► often and and i because i don't care i'm going in and changing it yeah because i don't care because a lot
00:04:10 ◼ ► of a lot of it is i'm trying to dash something off to get it down and it's not for public consumption
00:04:14 ◼ ► and so i don't care i do that a lot in fact my my email sign off my email signature is generally my
00:04:19 ◼ ► name in lowercase so yeah that is a thing but that that is when i'm i don't care but i think that if i
00:04:27 ◼ ► look at my calendar actually some of the title case stuff is technically like that the title of a thing
00:04:33 ◼ ► so it is there for a reason but it's not again it's only for me and so i i honestly i really don't care
00:04:39 ◼ ► i know there are people there are people who who know a lot about style who care about it in all
00:04:44 ◼ ► their all their works and then there are people like me who know about it and and try to care about
00:04:50 ◼ ► it in public facing things but for private things i do not care at all and as i just detailed even for
00:04:55 ◼ ► the public facing things i don't care enough so that's there yeah uh i am an internalized title
00:05:04 ◼ ► caser especially when it comes for lots of things but with events like i don't even know i'm doing it but
00:05:09 ◼ ► it happens right so like i like it i actually tend to over title case uh some stuff where because
00:05:16 ◼ ► there are certain words i guess like adjoining words where you don't do it i actually use an app
00:05:22 ◼ ► on the mac called pop clip um which pop clip is is an app where you can highlight text uh and do things
00:05:30 ◼ ► with that text and it like it shows up basically like the cut copy paste menu above a text when you select
00:05:37 ◼ ► it like you get on the iphone and one of the pop clip things that i do is i can i can copy the text
00:05:43 ◼ ► um and i and a little uh t appears above it and if i press that t it turns it into title case so i do
00:05:50 ◼ ► that for nice i do that for like um the podcast titles because steven would be really mad if i if i
00:05:56 ◼ ► didn't uh title case them correctly um and i don't like it when steven or anybody goes in and changes
00:06:03 ◼ ► anything on my episodes after i post them so i just try and like make sure that that doesn't happen so
00:06:08 ◼ ► like no one has to worry about going in and doing that uh and so i have that app but anyway i uh but
00:06:14 ◼ ► i also have shared calendars of people who don't do that so that's upsetting to me um when i have
00:06:20 ◼ ► events that are in the lowercase but there's nothing i can do about it because it's not my event i'm not
00:06:23 ◼ ► going to go in and change the title of somebody else's event this was a very fun question from jerry so
00:06:30 ◼ ► thank you for sending this in if you'd like to send in a question of your own just go to upgrade
00:06:34 ◼ ► feedback.com and you can send in your own snow talk question uh we were just talking about six colors
00:06:39 ◼ ► business and glenn who's writing the six colors i want to do a follow-up and give a shout out to
00:06:43 ◼ ► friend of the show dan moran for his amazing run on jeopardy last week which was that's right very fun
00:06:48 ◼ ► congratulations to dan i uh yeah he's he's now um matched glenn in some ways and surpassed him in
00:06:56 ◼ ► others which is really fun um interesting and so we got we got uh we got some jeopardy champions in
00:07:07 ◼ ► uh people who know about jeopardy appreciating what dan did two people americans who do not watch
00:07:15 ◼ ► jeopardy being fascinated to react like i was fascinated to watch them react to what jeopardy is
00:07:22 ◼ ► yeah um and then three for non-americans to react to jeopardy uh because again it is a very specific
00:07:30 ◼ ► thing that i'm so used to and and seeing all of these things like does he if he wins does he come back
00:07:35 ◼ ► tomorrow and it's like yes it is a really weird quiz show it's weird and it's fast and that's the
00:07:41 ◼ ► other thing that people kept saying it's like the pace is so fast i'm like yeah it is it's real fast
00:07:45 ◼ ► i have a question uh did he does dan get to keep all that money like the money that you made even
00:07:52 ◼ ► though he lost is it like is that dan's money that's dan's money congratulations i have it on good
00:07:57 ◼ ► authority that um that uh before they were supposed to squeal about it that uh that a person in dan's
00:08:04 ◼ ► family squealed to a friend of dan's okay said dan made a lot of money but that person made a lot of
00:08:10 ◼ ► money i'm very proud of him but he did a good job that person's not a jeopardy fan so they didn't
00:08:14 ◼ ► understand quite how it works whereas i knew that he went out there for two taping days and day two
00:08:21 ◼ ► he was at disneyland which means that he didn't make it to day two and that meant he was on on day
00:08:29 ◼ ► one and that and i know that they tape again it's these levels i know that they tape monday to friday
00:08:34 ◼ ► yep on a day they tape five episodes on a day and so if dan was at disneyland on tuesday
00:08:40 ◼ ► that meant that he didn't he was on five but he didn't he didn't well he didn't get to monday
00:08:47 ◼ ► yeah he he only got through friday right i didn't know if he won or if he was just out in one but
00:08:54 ◼ ► after he won a couple which he did uh it got to friday and i was like well he's not winning this one
00:08:59 ◼ ► because i saw i i you know he went to disneyland the next day so i know that about it but we put all
00:09:04 ◼ ► together and the answer is so the answer is yes he he made that money amazing um i believe the i
00:09:09 ◼ ► believe that various governments take it right off the top the u.s and and the state of california
00:09:15 ◼ ► and according to glenn you then fill out a form if you're not a california resident and say actually
00:09:20 ◼ ► that's my money yeah and then they give it back to you so uh but yeah that's it's pretty good and i
00:09:26 ◼ ► am looking forward to how he handles his annual uh post that he does on his own personal blog
00:09:32 ◼ ► about how much money he makes from from tech journalism and how much money he makes from
00:09:38 ◼ ► uh uh book you know novel writing and all of that and now he's got this game this you know one time
00:09:44 ◼ ► presumably who knows game show uh income stream also jeopardy does a postseason where they have past uh
00:09:52 ◼ ► champions come and play again so he may come back and play again and have a chance to win more money
00:09:59 ◼ ► which is also pretty cool so i'm i couldn't be prouder also for those who don't know uh two years
00:10:05 ◼ ► ago i uh i tried out for jeopardy for the first time using their quiz a week later they had me do
00:10:12 ◼ ► uh the the retake where they make sure that it's proxy basically so that you weren't cheating a week
00:10:16 ◼ ► later i had an i had an in-person zoom audition with a whole bunch of people and they said okay um for
00:10:22 ◼ ► the next year and a half basically you just have to wait by the phone and we'll call you if we're
00:10:26 ◼ ► interested and i told this to dan it was really sad because dan had been trying to be on jeopardy for
00:10:30 ◼ ► 10 years and he'd never gotten any of those points and i felt really bad because i thought i was going
00:10:35 ◼ ► to just zoom right into jeopardy contestant hood and dan was uh dan was not and then what happened is
00:10:41 ◼ ► they never called me they're extenuating circumstances but also probably they didn't want me
00:10:45 ◼ ► um but uh then dan just did it and the same thing happened boop boop boop and he got on which is
00:10:50 ◼ ► awesome so i don't feel i don't feel guilty at all now now that dan is a jeopardy champion yeah so
00:10:58 ◼ ► yeah that's so good so good it was so fun to watch uh don't ask me how i saw it um and uh just ways
00:11:05 ◼ ► screeners the end of the first episode when he finds out he won i got tear in my eye he will
00:11:11 ◼ ► yeah i don't know if i've ever seen a man so happy to be honest uh it was amazing congratulations dan
00:11:17 ◼ ► we're really proud of you and uh i think it's so cool all right we've got some follow-up okay so
00:11:23 ◼ ► we've got some some questions and some stuff and obviously uh there's a big lawyer up segment again
00:11:27 ◼ ► today because lots of things have continued to happen uh in the world of legal proceedings over
00:11:32 ◼ ► the last week but first comes from matthias who asks given the last couple of weeks how do you think
00:11:37 ◼ ► apple will handle the messaging of wwdc this year is there anything you think that they should do so
00:11:43 ◼ ► we're like less than a month away at this point um wwdc while being you know it's obviously a
00:11:49 ◼ ► developer's conference i know there is typically and has typically been in the past some kind of feel
00:11:55 ◼ ► good developer video that kind of stuff like what what do you think is the right way to handle it this
00:12:00 ◼ ► yeah i think they'll do what they always do which is the people involved in making wwdd
00:12:05 ◼ ► the people involved in making wwdc are people who their job is developer relations and they're the
00:12:15 ◼ ► ones who who care about developers they're the ones who care about developers so the messaging is going
00:12:19 ◼ ► to be the same which is you're very important to us it's going to be the same and i know that apple
00:12:27 ◼ ► is proud enough that it seems extremely unlikely that we're going to get any kind of profession of
00:12:35 ◼ ► guilt for prior bad behavior yeah do what what do i think they should do well the thing is i don't
00:12:42 ◼ ► think they should handle the messaging different i think they need to change their policies and we can
00:12:47 ◼ ► talk about that more in lawyer up again we can talk about that elsewhere but i think this is the problem
00:12:52 ◼ ► is apple has a developer relations team that cares a lot about developers there are a lot of people
00:12:57 ◼ ► internal app generally who care about developers who probably think that developers are being mistreated
00:13:03 ◼ ► by policy but the people handling the policies are doing something different by the way this is not special
00:13:10 ◼ ► to apple um my direct dealings with google that i had when i worked at idg were very similar which is
00:13:18 ◼ ► i was working with engineers they were awesome they're like how can we do this that works for you
00:13:23 ◼ ► and they built a whole thing and then at some point a switch got flipped and the lawyers came in
00:13:27 ◼ ► and everything sucked um that this is very similar to that which is they're the people who really care
00:13:34 ◼ ► and then they're the people in charge of policy and of course people who really care are not holding a
00:13:39 ◼ ► fiduciary responsibility for the company yada yada yada i get the differences i'm not trying to be naive here
00:13:44 ◼ ► but i i do want to say that is there anything i think they should do is change their policies toward
00:13:51 ◼ ► developers so that their messaging doesn't fall flat and that's not a messaging problem it's a policy
00:13:58 ◼ ► problem yeah i agree i think that we should get one of those which has been in the past one week
00:14:03 ◼ ► before wwdc press release interviews here's how we're changing the rules yeah we're changing the
00:14:09 ◼ ► rules in some way and like and again like i feel like uh i'm harsh on them and i don't know how my
00:14:16 ◼ ► opinion comes across sometimes i think they should get i think apple should get something but it shouldn't
00:14:20 ◼ ► be the 30 is my feeling is like the ideal they they should get something and they should also offer
00:14:26 ◼ ► more to developers for the right to take that something i think but they're appealing right now
00:14:30 ◼ ► and so they're not going to say anything or do anything right because they're still fighting
00:14:34 ◼ ► this they're still fighting city hall right i mean that's what's happening the appeal i don't think
00:14:40 ◼ ► that appeal and it has to stay the same have to be the same thing like i think what well i ultimately
00:14:47 ◼ ► what apple is appealing or i would assume that they're appealing is their ability to make their own
00:14:52 ◼ ► rules because like the issue they have right now is their ability to create policy in this area has
00:14:59 ◼ ► been taken away from them and so they can't really make any changes unless this gets appealed i would
00:15:05 ◼ ► assume exactly so i mean there's nothing they can announce that they could enact in the u.s
00:15:09 ◼ ► because they're under a court order to do it the way that they're doing it now in the u.s
00:15:13 ◼ ► which is nothing essentially it the only thing would be if they decided that this would if there
00:15:18 ◼ ► was a real reversal inside apple where culturally they're like oh we really messed this up we need
00:15:23 ◼ ► to change we need to change everything we we do about this they could announce that everywhere
00:15:27 ◼ ► outside the u.s or maybe the u.s and the eu they had a whole new system of rules that they were putting
00:15:33 ◼ ► into place but again probably not a month since the court ruling right like it's probably just not
00:15:39 ◼ ► going to happen so you know that's what what i think they should do is change the the way they walk the
00:15:44 ◼ ► walk and that will allow them to talk the talk uh but i do not during the actual presentation itself
00:15:50 ◼ ► like apple can do whatever developer evangelists should do everything that they're going to do and
00:15:54 ◼ ► in my opinion should work even harder than ever this year sorry it wasn't your fault but you got to work
00:15:59 ◼ ► hard this year i think if you want to try and convince developers that you care about them what i don't want
00:16:04 ◼ ► to see from apple is one of those feel good developer videos about like how great it is to be an apple
00:16:09 ◼ ► developer and how much they care because it it will fall big time flat and i feel like if they do that
00:16:16 ◼ ► they have absolutely missed the mark like it is not the time right now to be like we love our developers
00:16:22 ◼ ► we care about our developers because even if you do it's just not going to land and it's going to be
00:16:27 ◼ ► taken poorly but so i'll be very intrigued to see what they do uh david writes in and asks and says
00:16:35 ◼ ► where was apple's corporate and external counsel when they were trying to figure out how to comply
00:16:39 ◼ ► with the court order if they've been part of the discussion presumably the conversation wouldn't be
00:16:44 ◼ ► discoverable either i get that lots of companies try to hide behind attorney-client privilege but
00:16:49 ◼ ► figuring out how to comply with a court order seems pretty clearly to be on the fair side of why you talk
00:16:54 ◼ ► to an attorney for advice this is a good point this is a similar point that john voye has made on a great
00:17:04 ◼ ► ultimately does the council serve the ceo like if the ceo decides this is what we're going to do
00:17:17 ◼ ► corporate counsel like i assume that the way that this works i think this is a great question because
00:17:22 ◼ ► a lot of people are like where is the lawyer and where are the lawyers in all of this but the thing is
00:17:27 ◼ ► i'm pretty sure that apple's high level strategy meetings don't have the lawyers in them so what's
00:17:36 ◼ ► probably happened is they've asked the lawyers for their opinions and so that means two things one you're a
00:17:43 ◼ ► lawyer working for apple and phil schiller says i think we need to comply and there are probably lawyers
00:17:50 ◼ ► who are like well we can do that that will that will eliminate all sorts of risk if we comply fully
00:17:56 ◼ ► with this and then there are people like luca maestri and presumably tim cook who are like but we don't
00:18:02 ◼ ► have to right like this is arguable right we could we could we could act in this other way and it could
00:18:07 ◼ ► be perceived as being and the lawyer can say well i can make the argument that this is perceived as being
00:18:13 ◼ ► following the judge's orders but you know also i have to advise you that it's a riskier path because
00:18:18 ◼ ► the judge if the judge isn't happy the judge can just uh do whatever she wants and we have to follow
00:18:25 ◼ ► her order because she will find us in contempt so you're walking a line there but as a lawyer i can
00:18:30 ◼ ► argue and again the argue the corporate counsel could even say look we think it's a riskier move they're
00:18:36 ◼ ► not going to say look we can see the future and we if you do this uh you're in big trouble they're
00:18:41 ◼ ► going to say look we could we we think this is a riskier path but if you're concerned about the
00:18:46 ◼ ► revenue implications here you can try it um this is and probably what they did in terms of the final
00:18:53 ◼ ► policies that they enabled or that they enacted were probably guided by the council saying yes you need
00:19:02 ◼ ► to do this you need to do this because remember they were abiding by the letter of the law not the spirit
00:19:07 ◼ ► of the law well that is something you look to your corporate counsel to do is does this
00:19:11 ◼ ► abide by the letter of the the judge's ruling i'm sure though somewhere in there they said
00:19:18 ◼ ► this is a much riskier path and in the end you know that's tim cook's call that's that's the you
00:19:27 ◼ ► could you know the the attorney is going to say not say absolutely not you just have to give away all
00:19:32 ◼ ► this money like phil says the the attorney is going to provide a range of options and what the fallout might
00:19:40 ◼ ► be and in the end i mean i don't i i love this question but in the end it comes back to the same
00:19:46 ◼ ► answer which is there are people who are making it very clear what the potential fallout of this is
00:19:51 ◼ ► and tim cook chose to put it push it to the max and take the risk yeah yeah i i figure it's like
00:20:00 ◼ ► you should say right that the lawyer can advise they can go decide they'll come back and tell the lawyer
00:20:04 ◼ ► and then it's the lawyer's job to try and get it past the judge ultimately yeah you're going to look
00:20:09 ◼ ► at project wisconsin or project michigan or whatever it is and make sure that it ticks all the boxes in
00:20:15 ◼ ► as we all saw the least helpful way possible but that it ticks them so we can argue that we complied with
00:20:21 ◼ ► the judge's ruling and that ends up being the the rule because really how much to comply is a policy decision
00:20:28 ◼ ► it's not a legal decision you're just using you know legal advice but i'm sure somebody said you risk
00:20:39 ◼ ► uh finally the great news i think the studio has been renewed uh for season two this show is
00:20:46 ◼ ► an absolute triumph uh the i won't spoil it but the final the final episode of the season is
00:20:51 ◼ ► incredible it's just incredible it feels like seth rogan cashed in every favor he possibly had in
00:20:57 ◼ ► hollywood and put together an episode it's astoundingly good i love this show um and i'm so happy that
00:21:03 ◼ ► they that they're bringing it back it's fantastic show um i was traveling last week so i have been
00:21:10 ◼ ► i'm now behind i'm like way behind on everything and there's more coming too murder bot comes out this
00:21:15 ◼ ► week yeah on tv plus yeah i'm intrigued about really looking forward to you know i'm intrigued
00:21:19 ◼ ► about those the stories are are are so good okay um and the trailer suggests that they've gotten the
00:21:25 ◼ ► tone right so i i highly that it's funny that it's a sci-fi uh thing that's got action in it but it's
00:21:33 ◼ ► also very funny and is about people and specifically about this this uh non-person the murder bot who
00:21:40 ◼ ► does not deal well with humans it's great it's so good so i i have high hopes for the tv show
00:21:46 ◼ ► i'm also still enjoying your friends and neighbors that's also really good but the thing that i'm
00:21:51 ◼ ► interested in here like i find interesting i should say here is it feels like they've got the programming
00:21:57 ◼ ► right like yep we're we're hbo in this of like they're rolling it too they're hbo in it not only in
00:22:04 ◼ ► the quality way but in the fact that like severance ended the same studio started murder bot is is
00:22:09 ◼ ► starting the same week the studio is ending like they've got enough content now this is the way
00:22:13 ◼ ► after the strikes and all that that they are rolling it out there's always something to watch on tv plus
00:22:18 ◼ ► yeah that yeah it's really smart you have concurrent things going on but you feel like you've got like
00:22:23 ◼ ► the hbo model right you've you know you've got this one show that is going to be really good so
00:22:28 ◼ ► you wait until the current really good shows over and then you slot it in its place that's right it's
00:22:33 ◼ ► a risky thing to do right because you're you're you're kind of like potentially then holding off
00:22:38 ◼ ► the next big hit if this one doesn't land but if you're confident in it and you you play it out then
00:22:43 ◼ ► great um but yeah i mean uh yeah so that i think i think they're doing good right now i think severance
00:22:48 ◼ ► set them up well and they've capitalized on it i feel like if you're paying attention to apple tv plus
00:22:55 ◼ ► right now you will want to stay subscribed and that has been their exact problem for the last
00:23:00 ◼ ► four years or whatever right of like yes they have a good show and then people leave and severance got
00:23:06 ◼ ► people in again so let's see if they can hold on to it this episode is brought to you by fitbod if
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00:25:20 ◼ ► a thanks to fitbod for their support of upgrade and relay time to lawyer up clunk clunk uh just a top
00:25:29 ◼ ► level thing any more reflections from you about the like 30 percent situation is the best way i can
00:25:35 ◼ ► kind of encapsulate this over the last week somebody said it should have been called the 30
00:25:39 ◼ ► percent solution because that's sherlock conference um it's very good uh you know it is it's a really
00:25:46 ◼ ► sweet solution sweet um no you know i don't know it is we're just in a weird place right now um where
00:26:04 ◼ ► and that this is in some ways i felt weirdly validated by that judge's ruling yeah because i
00:26:14 ◼ ► felt that a judge who does not spend her entire career paying attention to apple and its policies
00:26:20 ◼ ► dug into this situation and essentially said what we've been saying which is this isn't the problem
00:26:29 ◼ ► here is not you protecting your intellectual property the problem here is that you refuse to compete and
00:26:35 ◼ ► you want to capture everything that happens on your platforms and capture all the revenue out of it even if
00:26:41 ◼ ► you're being hostile to your developer partners and to your users because that the thing about i know it's in
00:26:47 ◼ ► our list here but i'll mention it now one of the things that happened here is amazon added a get book
00:26:52 ◼ ► button to the kindle app yep and and while we're talking about a lot of the conversation and we're going to have it
00:27:00 ◼ ► now a lot of the conversation is about apple potentially losing revenue right by by not having
00:27:07 ◼ ► all that stuff captured but apple never got any revenue from amazon for kindle books they never did
00:27:16 ◼ ► because it never made sense it was never something you could do because of the way that the book selling
00:27:21 ◼ ► model works apple taking its cut literally meant that that amazon lost money on every book sale in the
00:27:28 ◼ ► iphone so this is actually a really great example of one of the other things that happens here which is
00:27:34 ◼ ► apple did a consumer hostile thing made it hard to buy books the most logical place to buy a book
00:27:41 ◼ ► if you're a kindle reader is in the kindle app and you just couldn't and why not apple policy and apple
00:27:47 ◼ ► wasn't even making money apple was just making it hard on amazon and amazon's customers on ios it was
00:27:53 ◼ ► it was decreasing the quality of the user experience on the iphone because it didn't because it made a
00:28:01 ◼ ► blanket policy um we could argue because it started its own bookstore where it didn't need a middleman
00:28:07 ◼ ► like this so so that is i think a really great example of how this is more than just apple um choosing
00:28:16 ◼ ► to try and capture as much money as it could it's also about apple degrading the user experience in
00:28:22 ◼ ► order to keep its policies up and and i would say contrary to what apple's product philosophy is
00:28:28 ◼ ► supposed to be so that's part of it um the other thought that i i've been having and i want to know if
00:28:34 ◼ ► you've got any too but i'll throw one more out there that i've been having for the last week
00:28:37 ◼ ► as i listened to lots of people talk about this and write about that you know all of that is going on
00:28:44 ◼ ► the one thing that i i didn't say last week that i wanted to say here is the 30 right like apple's
00:28:52 ◼ ► argument is oh you've treated our intellectual property as worth nothing and that's why it's an
00:28:57 ◼ ► unconstitutional taking and this should be overturned and all of that i would argue that you could say
00:29:02 ◼ ► that the 99 developer fee is you recouping your intellectual property and that maybe the answer
00:29:08 ◼ ► is you should charge a bigger fee to be an apple developer and do it that way yeah um maybe maybe
00:29:13 ◼ ► that's a way you could do it because in the old days it was it was a thousand dollars a year to be
00:29:17 ◼ ► an apple developer but they lowered it in part because they were then they had this uh this tax that they
00:29:22 ◼ ► did on all the transactions which is great i mean i i and maybe that's the answer is that there's a
00:29:27 ◼ ► you know a a small business and student and non-profit fee that's or or is waived and there's
00:29:34 ◼ ► a more expensive thing i don't think it's going to solve this problem but like i do think it's them
00:29:38 ◼ ► recouping their money on their intellectual property and their apis and all of that what what i kept
00:29:44 ◼ ► thinking all week though is why 30 why 30 it's only 30 because steve jobs said it at 30 in the early
00:29:50 ◼ ► days when everybody looked at the 30 and was like well i mean it is pretty full service and that's not a bad
00:29:55 ◼ ► deal and people didn't really realize kind of like how it went and because it was set there they've
00:29:59 ◼ ► kept it there but for a lot of the people who are like who are saying apple and there aren't that many
00:30:05 ◼ ► honestly which is nice saying oh apple is the victim here i'll just say the reason that i don't feel like
00:30:13 ◼ ► apple's argument is very strong is why 30 why not 70 why not 80 why not 90 what's stopping apple
00:30:24 ◼ ► from charging whatever it wants because there's no competition so it's only 30 because they started
00:30:31 ◼ ► at 30 if they started at 50 it would be 50 if they started at 80 it would be 80 and that's the problem
00:30:39 ◼ ► is that it's not a reasonable amount in any circumstance for them to do this it's not amount
00:30:46 ◼ ► and the issue is competition yeah the issue is competition and the degradation of the user experience
00:30:51 ◼ ► those are my two kind of things that i've been thinking for the last week yeah i mean i think
00:30:55 ◼ ► we're basically around the same area i i think in general um it is a bit it's validating because i feel
00:31:05 ◼ ► like we have been on this hobby horse for a long time uh and yeah it's nice a professional agreed with
00:31:12 ◼ ► us yes like it just didn't feel right like it just didn't feel right you know and i've felt very strongly
00:31:20 ◼ ► for you know where i kind of i feel very strongly i sit in these two kind of different camps where
00:31:24 ◼ ► i i kind of feel that like to a degree businesses should be able to do whatever they want like
00:31:32 ◼ ► in essence of how they work with other businesses i feel like you should be able to set your business
00:31:38 ◼ ► terms and and do what you need to do but at the same time i also think that if it comes to harm
00:31:45 ◼ ► customers then you shouldn't be able to do whatever you want right i feel like it should be businesses
00:31:50 ◼ ► work of businesses and they just work it out like for example the idea i've i've often felt like i know
00:31:57 ◼ ► that this actually got google in trouble so then this isn't allowed but i've often felt that apple should
00:32:02 ◼ ► be free to do whatever deals it wants to do with any developer i i don't think that i sorry i don't think
00:32:09 ◼ ► every developer should have to be treated equally like i just don't think that's the case um i think
00:32:14 ◼ ► netflix should not be treated the same as timery right like they're they just they should just
00:32:22 ◼ ► shouldn't be treated the same in my opinion when you're more successful you get a little bit of
00:32:27 ◼ ► of bargain and power that that's what i think and then it benefits the user right if if you can get a
00:32:34 ◼ ► netflix subscription on the app store that is beneficial to the end user but the way that
00:32:41 ◼ ► things have gone using amazon as the example that is not beneficial to the end user because the fact
00:32:46 ◼ ► that you can't buy a kindle book in the kindle app is just wrong like it's not weird it's not crazy
00:32:52 ◼ ► it's just wrong you should be able to buy content for the app in the app if it's available on the web
00:33:00 ◼ ► you can buy a paper book in the amazon app yeah using in-app purchase using app using amazon's
00:33:07 ◼ ► purchasing system not apple's purchasing system and it's okay because it's a physical book but you
00:33:13 ◼ ► can't do that with an ebook because apple has decided that all digital content should have a cut
00:33:18 ◼ ► for apple i mean they could decide a different way now i wanted to mention one one thing you said there is
00:33:22 ◼ ► you know basically sort of staying out of apple's apple's business in some ways i think part of the
00:33:27 ◼ ► problem here is that there is a smartphone platform duopoly yeah that's part of the problem it might be
00:33:35 ◼ ► different if apple was selling a kind of like a cult device with eight percent market share and one in
00:33:42 ◼ ► control of its platform also it wouldn't it would probably try harder to be better because it would
00:33:48 ◼ ► not be sitting pretty um but that's not the case we are in a if you want a smartphone you're either
00:33:54 ◼ ► under google's rules or apple's rules uh which is not great and and i i am very open to the argument
00:33:59 ◼ ► that if you build a platform that has an open essentially uh third party software experience
00:34:07 ◼ ► that it's more burdensome on you to allow the third parties to make some choices than uh than what apple
00:34:17 ◼ ► is doing here and i i am actually very much in the belief that that's true that like if you if you make
00:34:23 ◼ ► a widget and you make it all yourself that's fine yeah but if you're benefiting from bringing in other
00:34:29 ◼ ► people to your platform the rules change and apple is that plus so powerful now that i feel like
00:34:37 ◼ ► access to uh to their platform is uh is required and i mean but i've already i'm on the i'm on the
00:34:45 ◼ ► record as saying i think that they need to use the mac model and have an app store and then let people
00:34:49 ◼ ► not use the app store i agree period yeah i i'm i mean i've also said it before too if like i think
00:34:55 ◼ ► once you get to a certain size you lose freedom right and apple is so large you have to lose some
00:35:03 ◼ ► of the freedom that i have otherwise believed that a business should have but i think once you get to
00:35:07 ◼ ► a certain point where you become intrinsically important for a large large swath of society to
00:35:14 ◼ ► operate that's the dma argument yeah you have lost the ability to be able to set any and every rule that
00:35:20 ◼ ► you would like to here's the thing right about this kind of stuff about like my idea of like business
00:35:24 ◼ ► issue it's all gray areas it's all none of this should be set in stone like everything has to be
00:35:30 ◼ ► treated case by case it differs everywhere always all the time none of this stuff is easy right and so
00:35:36 ◼ ► i just feel like apple was at the size and at the scale that they're so important that they can't just
00:35:43 ◼ ► do whatever they want and that is how we've ended up in this scenario so as well as the appeal that apple
00:35:49 ◼ ► have already filed for this entire ruling that judge gonzalez rogers gave them they have also filed an
00:35:57 ◼ ► emergency motion with the ninth circuit court of appeals to pause the ruling until the appeal process
00:36:04 ◼ ► is concluded so they have appealed it to try and get it overturned but now they're saying until that
00:36:10 ◼ ► appeal is completed we don't want to abide by these rules and we want to switch things back to how they
00:36:15 ◼ ► were um apple have i think asked or it's being set that this will be decided before the 28th of may
00:36:22 ◼ ► uh as to whether this will continue and i just i find all this just like just let it go but that's
00:36:28 ◼ ► not how it works but there's just a part of just let it go just let it go but it's not how it works and
00:36:32 ◼ ► it can't work that way i understand i'm not a lawyer and also judges can decide what they want to decide
00:36:37 ◼ ► that's the truth of it but what i would say is it strikes me that this will be a tougher thing for
00:36:41 ◼ ► them to argue because it's punitive about them failing they've been found in contempt and so to say
00:36:47 ◼ ► well we've we've been in contempt but don't do this thing we already implemented make us unimplemented
00:36:52 ◼ ► for a while while we get away with this i get the feeling that judges will probably not be as positive
00:36:58 ◼ ► about the idea of temporarily staying a punitive decision because of a finding of contempt right like
00:37:06 ◼ ► it seems that seems to be again from my little non-lawyer perspective like this is going to be
00:37:12 ◼ ► a tougher argument for them but uh you know it only takes all that needs to happen is that a judge
00:37:17 ◼ ► or a panel of judges just need to agree like if you get the right judges and they they decide that then
00:37:24 ◼ ► that's what it'll be uh so other apps have done some interesting things delta the emulator app
00:37:30 ◼ ► um has now added the ability well then they've yet they're very prominently featuring their patreon
00:37:37 ◼ ► as the way to support the app um so like this is just in the us so if i open the app here in the uk
00:37:42 ◼ ► it doesn't have this it can't have this but if you go to the app and you go to the like the main screen
00:37:46 ◼ ► it's like hey support our development sign up for our patreon but they were told by app review
00:37:52 ◼ ► they still have to include apple's in-app purchase if they're now going to suggest that people should
00:37:57 ◼ ► give them money so they've added i just think i think this is funny i think i think that the the
00:38:03 ◼ ► gang over uh alt store they like to poke at apple uh sometimes sometimes they do it better than others
00:38:09 ◼ ► and i think this is a great one they have included under a button that says alternative payment methods
00:38:15 ◼ ► another screen this is at the very bottom of the settings screen of the app another screen will pop up
00:38:20 ◼ ► which will let you sign up within that purchase a thing that uh they would not have been able to get
00:38:25 ◼ ► approved a couple of weeks ago but i think correct app review are very nervous right now is my feeling
00:38:32 ◼ ► and basically they have they have done the bare minimum and it has worked for them which i think is
00:38:37 ◼ ► fantastic i feel like this is something we mentioned in passing last time which is my understanding is
00:38:43 ◼ ► you still have to offer yes in that purchase in a bunch of places but it doesn't say where so you can put it
00:38:48 ◼ ► in that you know in the back of the closet down in the you know the last screen well but here's the
00:38:53 ◼ ► thing what about kindle though well kindle they're not it's it i think it's different but yes that's
00:39:00 ◼ ► that's the question uh i don't know i don't know the answer here's the thing i don't think that would
00:39:04 ◼ ► have been different right that if before this ruling if amazon did that apple would say give us our
00:39:10 ◼ ► money probably so but amazon are getting through because they're amazon it may be different because it's
00:39:16 ◼ ► it's a reader app it's a different it's got a different kind of thing and they have an existing
00:39:19 ◼ ► storefront on the outside it's a little bit it's a little bit different and that may be all or it
00:39:23 ◼ ► may be that app review is in disarray and they're not going to reject anything now i think they're in
00:39:27 ◼ ► disarray because i i feel like if if amazon would have done this a month ago apple would say give us
00:39:35 ◼ ► our money otherwise they would have done it before now right yeah like i i feel like that this is
00:39:41 ◼ ► there are i'm sure many gray areas but i just i feel like i my feeling looking at what's going on
00:39:47 ◼ ► right now is that app review i've kind of just been told that like we need to let it all through here
00:39:54 ◼ ► we need to be let it all through and smaller developers that they're putting up a block but
00:39:58 ◼ ► bigger ones yeah i know you say that but but they push back on delta right well but they're a smaller
00:40:03 ◼ ► developer i i think that they can can kind of push on them i don't know i i really don't know but he's
00:40:09 ◼ ► the thing i don't know right like it doesn't seem to make complete sense to me the way that they're
00:40:13 ◼ ► going about everything i should also say this ruling is so specific it doesn't solve everything
00:40:19 ◼ ► amazon having a a link to buy a book that opens safari to your amazon screen for that book so that you
00:40:35 ◼ ► situation no the ideal situation should be like the amazon.com app yeah where if you want to buy
00:40:41 ◼ ► something you just buy it and you never leave the app yeah but that's against the rules because that
00:40:47 ◼ ► hasn't been you know hasn't been uh made illegal i mean there's even a step before that it just opens
00:40:52 ◼ ► a safari view controller window but it can't they can't do that either they do that either even though
00:40:57 ◼ ► the best thing to do is it's like buying something a physical book on the amazon app right where you
00:41:03 ◼ ► just press the button and this is all the residue of apple and the judge like apple get being given
00:41:11 ◼ ► some latitude in their policies by the judge which is why the argument that uh the judge's ruling has
00:41:16 ◼ ► taken away apple's ability to control and monetize their iap and whatever like that's why i again as a
00:41:23 ◼ ► not judge judge would be deeply skeptical of apple's claims because it seems to me like a lot of apple's
00:41:30 ◼ ► proposals were accepted like she didn't say you can't you have to just let people build code in to
00:41:38 ◼ ► charge credit cards she didn't say that she just said you can't you got to let them go out to the web
00:41:43 ◼ ► with whatever link they want and and the policy about no uh no safari web view inside the app
00:41:51 ◼ ► remains right like that that wasn't invalidated so like apple still gets to sort of like control the
00:41:58 ◼ ► way you do this they just don't get to uh outlaw you know non-static links and demand that amazon
00:42:08 ◼ ► audit you know its books and provide kickbacks to apple so we had a lot of discussion last time about
00:42:17 ◼ ► what epic we're going to do about fortnite because they've been saying fortnite's coming back and we
00:42:22 ◼ ► were questioning how what they have done i think it's is even what i said what i thought or i was just
00:42:29 ◼ ► thinking it they would use the app store uh the developer account that they have for distribution
00:42:37 ◼ ► of their alternative app store in europe so they have a new developer account which they're using
00:42:43 ◼ ► for the uh alternative app store and and fortnite and all that the epic game stuff that exists
00:42:49 ◼ ► because of the dma because their old account was gotten rid of right it was disabled by apple as
00:42:56 ◼ ► breach of the term so they'd set up a new one yes so they have confirmed uh on friday fortnite was
00:43:04 ◼ ► submitted to the app store for distribution in the u.s from the eu account so as of recording now
00:43:10 ◼ ► we're waiting to see what happens i want to get a sense from you yes or no does apple approve fortnite
00:43:19 ◼ ► this is going to be one of those questions about whether how much in disarray apple is and i think
00:43:28 ◼ ► this is high profile enough that it's not going to be an app reviewer it's going to be somebody
00:43:31 ◼ ► high up possibly even phil schiller level saying what are we going to do about this my gut feeling is
00:43:38 ◼ ► that epic doesn't have a leg to stand on and that the apple's just going to say no we told you you
00:43:43 ◼ ► you're in violation of our terms and you're only in the eu uh this entity is only able to upload this
00:43:49 ◼ ► thing in the eu uh because of the dma um this entity exists because of the dma in europe in the u.s you
00:43:56 ◼ ► are still under the terms of your old agreement uh because you are a uh you know a subsidiary of the
00:44:03 ◼ ► company that used this very code to break the agreement and so we're not going to let you i think
00:44:09 ◼ ► that is the most likely scenario because it's true if it gets in that says something about how apple is
00:44:16 ◼ ► reeling from all of these rulings right um and that it is trying not to poke the bear but because
00:44:25 ◼ ► the okay the the upside of letting this thing in is it's one less controversy and you get a popular
00:44:35 ◼ ► game on your platform again it's not bad the downside of this is that you're kind of saying
00:44:46 ◼ ► that your ability to keep things out of the app store is lessened and i don't know if they want to
00:44:56 ◼ ► say that so i i i my gut feeling is that they'll just say no this the judge's ruling says nothing about
00:45:03 ◼ ► you being in the app store um and if they say yes it suggests that there is a lot of recriminations
00:45:09 ◼ ► going on at apple right now i think they're gonna let it in um i don't think that it will be an easier
00:45:17 ◼ ► decision i think it will be a decision that they will make because they want to show that they're willing
00:45:23 ◼ ► to play ball right because they've gotten in trouble now and so i think it would show the legal system
00:45:30 ◼ ► that they're willing to change right and they're willing to be better people than they were before
00:45:35 ◼ ► but i think it will come with a statement either from apple or epic which is said that in any scenario
00:45:42 ◼ ► in which the rules change epic have to remove the purchase methods that they put in the app
00:46:01 ◼ ► as long as like provided that this remains that's what i think will happen there is this weird scenario
00:46:08 ◼ ► i heard someone say this on a podcast as if this was fact but it's not fact but it was an interesting
00:46:12 ◼ ► thought exercise which was the thing that epic did broke the rules but as of the rules that currently
00:46:44 ◼ ► legal so is the situation that i mean i don't know what the terms say but if you broke the rules
00:46:52 ◼ ► on one account are you blackballed from ever creating another developer you are but they have
00:46:57 ◼ ► one though but they have one but they would say well this is the thing this is why it's up to them
00:47:02 ◼ ► it's up to apple yeah because there are lots of excuses they could use they could say well you know
00:47:09 ◼ ► they they have a new account and that is a developer in good standing we've decided to treat it that way
00:47:18 ◼ ► and and like you said this is only because of the rules in the u.s and if those rules change we expect them to follow or be removed
00:47:47 ◼ ► willing to do business with them unless we're legally forced to the downside of that like i said
00:47:51 ◼ ► what if that means they're going to be legally forced to because that is bad because then they lose yet another
00:48:00 ◼ ► i think that it is in there are lots of ways in which this is in good interest to apple to have epic back on the app store
00:48:09 ◼ ► that's the number one reason to allow it is just that it's it's a very popular game and you
00:48:27 ◼ ► and uh analyst firm app figures issued a report last week that apple made 10 billion dollars from u.s app store commissions in 2024
00:48:37 ◼ ► um i'm usually very hesitant to pay much attention to these kinds of reports because i just don't know how you could actually get that number
00:48:49 ◼ ► uh app figures estimates that four billion dollars of this is games the rest is like app subscriptions
00:48:55 ◼ ► and it was just a thought like how much of this would go away under this scenario if it was half
00:49:01 ◼ ► right let's just imagine it's half um which is still a huge number but five billion dollars of profit
01:25:31 ◼ ► kobo more directly he agreed but i just i'm not sure it's a priority for them so what i will
01:25:38 ◼ ► say is if you are an e-ink enthusiast who would like something more powerful than a kindle or a
01:25:45 ◼ ► kobo you could buy an android powered e-ink device like the ones from books and it's not it's more work
01:25:54 ◼ ► but there are android rss readers that that will integrate with um the e-ink in a way where it's
01:26:05 ◼ ► decent to read it in e-ink because the big thing what you want is you don't want to scroll because
01:26:09 ◼ ► e-ink frame rates are bad so you want it to be able to like honor your page turn button and have
01:26:14 ◼ ► that turn the page it's not great and i'll tell you i've got a lot of books readers here and i don't do
01:26:19 ◼ ► this i read my rss on my ipad every morning because of this i wish it was better i really do
01:26:25 ◼ ► um i will keep trying but like you rss on an e-ink reader it's just it's an extra step right now and
01:26:32 ◼ ► i wish i wish it weren't but that's unfortunately where we are right now uh yoni writes in and says
01:26:39 ◼ ► mike as a fellow new dad i'm struggling to manage all the photos i could take of my son how are you
01:26:45 ◼ ► handling the photos that you take sharing them with your wife and friends and family are you using a
01:26:50 ◼ ► shared library or shared icloud album what is the hurley way i made a shortcut last night
01:26:55 ◼ ► actually to to count how many photos i've taken this year um last year i took like 3 800 photos
01:27:04 ◼ ► this year i've taken 1 800 photos so i'm taking lots of photos of my baby uh i take photos of my baby
01:27:11 ◼ ► all day all the time what i don't want to do is manage a uh icloud library or we're family i'm not
01:27:19 ◼ ► interested in that so adina and i we have a shared photo library for the pic like we just have a shared
01:27:24 ◼ ► photo library so the pictures that we're both taking we're both getting right and so we both leave sharing
01:27:29 ◼ ► on as default for any pictures that we take and we get them that way that's great for the two of us
01:27:34 ◼ ► um there was like family drama a while ago because of a shared photo library you know like someone's
01:27:44 ◼ ► it was just ridiculous so that oh no moment was like i don't want to be in this uh so we're not doing
01:27:49 ◼ ► this what i did do is i bought my mom an aura frame uh we and we bought one for adina's mom too we bought
01:27:57 ◼ ► a two-pack which is a genius idea but i'm one for two family members and that's how i am that's how i
01:28:05 ◼ ► am mostly giving the photos to the person other than my wife in my life who wants the pictures the
01:28:09 ◼ ► most which is the grandmas other members of the family would just send select images whatever i
01:28:16 ◼ ► actually think that's fine i think that like my brothers don't need a constant stream or really want
01:28:21 ◼ ► a constant stream of photos in the way that my mom what does uh and the aura frames are super nice i'd
01:28:27 ◼ ► seen them on a bunch of podcasts uh as ads and i looked it up and i was looked up wire cutter and
01:28:33 ◼ ► they're also you know as well as being uh endorsed by many podcasters who've received them it's also
01:28:38 ◼ ► like the wire cutter pic is now like aura frames i was very surprised at just how much this digital
01:28:45 ◼ ► photo frame looks like a photo frame like it just looks like a photo frame they're super thin
01:28:51 ◼ ► uh they're really nice looking and the the screens are very nice they're like matte screens like they look
01:28:56 ◼ ► really good and jason their app is unbelievably good you uh you can go into the app and upload
01:29:03 ◼ ► whatever you want it supports live photos which i just thought was great as like a feature but my
01:29:10 ◼ ► favorite thing is you can go into the photos app select a bunch of images they have a share extension
01:29:15 ◼ ► to just send them to the frame and from the share extension you can choose do i want it to go to
01:29:21 ◼ ► both frames attached to the account which is both of our mom's frames or just the one super good like
01:29:28 ◼ ► i i wish they would sponsor because i loved it like i i was blown away at how good an experience the
01:29:36 ◼ ► aura frame was this is the main way i would recommend dealing with this like i my mom appreciates that way
01:29:44 ◼ ► more and then i also send her pictures too right so like i will send her pictures that i like but then
01:29:50 ◼ ► i'll also upload the aura to the aura frame and like she can just she just sees them all the time and
01:29:56 ◼ ► she absolutely loves it and same with like adina's mom she they they both love these things so i really
01:30:02 ◼ ► recommend these uh for gifts for family members so because it has been a big hit um with uh with our
01:30:10 ◼ ► grandparents uh patrick writes in and says that the news that the uh i feel like pouring it out for
01:30:19 ◼ ► the home pod hardware thing was mostly finished but was waiting on software is it fair to say that
01:30:25 ◼ ► apple's software division is letting down the hardware division the same story uh was rumored to have
01:30:30 ◼ ► happened for the vision pro and overall it seemed like apple hardware is hitting home runs where apple
01:30:35 ◼ ► software can't seem to find the ball which is quite a mean metaphor i think at the end but
01:30:40 ◼ ► yeah it does feel like that's the case though right that apple is executing on its hardware
01:30:45 ◼ ► better than it is on its software maybe the company is just set up in such a way that that makes it
01:30:53 ◼ ► easier for them to do i don't know but there does seem to be something going on if i were an apple
01:30:59 ◼ ► executive i would definitely be especially if i was involved in the hardware side i would definitely have
01:31:05 ◼ ► noticed that the hardware people are just going by leaps and bounds going forward and executing
01:31:13 ◼ ► and software is struggling to catch up with them and i'm starting to wonder like what's that dynamic
01:31:19 ◼ ► like are the hardware people really mad at the software people now like because they should be like
01:31:24 ◼ ► they built apparently they built a whole product because they were they were told that it was going to hinge on
01:31:30 ◼ ► all of this kind of personal uh siri control and they never shipped and the product is ready
01:31:37 ◼ ► that is the most stark example but i feel like that we've seen this before that they are just yes this
01:31:44 ◼ ► is the answer is this is this sums up this moment in apple which is their hardware execution has never
01:31:50 ◼ ► been better and their software execution i'm not going to say it's never been worse that's not true
01:31:55 ◼ ► but it is substantially behind the hardware execution yeah i mean look at the ipad that that's the story
01:32:02 ◼ ► of the ipad too right it's been the story of the ipad for ages now although some of that is policy right it's not
01:32:06 ◼ ► all it's not like they can't do it it's that they won't do it but the net result is that the software
01:32:17 ◼ ► john wrightson says the tv os user profiles do anything at all with third-party apps like disney
01:32:23 ◼ ► or amazon it would be great if my kids or partners tv shows did not appear in my personal up next
01:32:29 ◼ ► so to expand on this a little bit tv os you probably don't know tv os has profiles you can
01:32:36 ◼ ► choose between different users and it will show different apps it's like a different it's actually
01:32:41 ◼ ► one of the only products apple makes other than the mac that has a built-in system for profiles that
01:32:48 ◼ ► multiple users can use them there is an api called tv user manager that does this so disney could
01:32:58 ◼ ► integrate their profile system you could link your disney profile with your apple profile so if you
01:33:04 ◼ ► switch between profiles it would change the up next queue the story of tv os i mean lots of apple's
01:33:10 ◼ ► platforms but tv os in a nutshell is there are features available but nobody cares to use them
01:33:16 ◼ ► like i think tv os actually suffers from this way more than even the vision pro or any other platform
01:33:23 ◼ ► of like there's stuff that can be done but nobody wants to do them it's not in anybody's interest to
01:33:30 ◼ ► do them like netflix in the up next queue for example like it's just it does not serve most of these
01:33:36 ◼ ► companies to really take advantage of all the things that the system offers this is one of them and it
01:33:41 ◼ ► would be great right that you would come and you would turn on your profile and all of your shows
01:33:46 ◼ ► are in your up next queue you go to your kids and then all of their shows are in your up next queue and
01:33:50 ◼ ► things don't cross pollinate but that it doesn't i have not seen any examples of people actually
01:33:57 ◼ ► companies actually using this api but it does exist if you would like to send in a question of your own
01:34:03 ◼ ► for us to answer on the show as best we can go to upgradefeedback.com you can also send us in your
01:34:09 ◼ ► follow-up and questions there too i would like to thank our members who support us with upgrade plus
01:34:14 ◼ ► if you would like longer ad free versions of the show each and every week go to getupgradeplus.com
01:34:19 ◼ ► you can find us on youtube by searching for upgrade podcast we're there in video glory if you
01:34:23 ◼ ► would like that i'd like to thank ecamm factor and fitbod for their support of this week's episode