Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 575. It's made possible by our sponsors, Gusto

00:00:14 ◼   ► and Ecamm. My name is Stephen Hackett. I have the pleasure of being joined by Mike Hurley.

00:00:19 ◼   ► Hello, Stephen Hackett.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Hello, Mike Hurley. How are you?

00:00:24 ◼   ► I'm very good. How are you?

00:00:26 ◼   ► I'm pretty good. It's Thursday. Is there anyone else here?

00:00:30 ◼   ► Yes, the one and only. The Benchman of Ricky, Federico Vatici.

00:00:35 ◼   ► Good morning.

00:00:37 ◼   ► Yes.

00:00:37 ◼   ► Good morning.

00:00:39 ◼   ► Good morning.

00:00:39 ◼   ► Good morning.

00:00:41 ◼   ► Good morning.

00:00:42 ◼   ► We have a fun show for you today. Yes. Hi.

00:00:45 ◼   ► Oh, that was good. Oh, I like that. That was good.

00:00:47 ◼   ► Yes, I'm also good. It's very windy today here. Yeah, I don't like the wind in general.

00:00:55 ◼   ► I can't imagine windy in Rome. I don't feel like you're a place for windiness.

00:00:59 ◼   ► No, no, it gets windy. It gets windy. It gets windy. Believe me. Yeah, all my plants in the

00:01:04 ◼   ► balcony are suffering because of the wind.

00:01:06 ◼   ► Can I tell you all a story about wind?

00:01:09 ◼   ► Yes.

00:01:10 ◼   ► So our new house, like the lights on either side of the front door, the one by the back

00:01:15 ◼   ► door, they were like a silver color and they didn't really match anything, but we liked the

00:01:21 ◼   ► way the lights look. They were like a pendant light with like some stained glass in them that

00:01:25 ◼   ► the bulb is in. So it's like really nice along the walkway. And I was like, well, I'll just

00:01:30 ◼   ► take them off the house. I'll take them apart. They needed a cleaning anyways. And I figured

00:01:33 ◼   ► I'd paint them black, which would match the house better. And so I did the first two and

00:01:40 ◼   ► they turned out really well. I was really happy with them, took them apart, cleaned them really

00:01:44 ◼   ► well, taped them all off, you know, painted them and put them back up. And then I was going

00:01:49 ◼   ► to do the third one that's around the back of the house. And I was like, well, great. You

00:01:53 ◼   ► know, this one will go really easily because the first two went so well. So it has been

00:01:58 ◼   ► windy here. Memphis has made the turn into autumn. Now it's like 70 degrees and sunny. It's perfect

00:02:04 ◼   ► weather. So yesterday you got to do like lots of thin coats on this stuff because it's, you

00:02:10 ◼   ► know, it's, it's metal and you want it to dry really well. And so I was doing, I think

00:02:14 ◼   ► the second or third coat yesterday and the wound was picking up a little bit. So I was being

00:02:18 ◼   ► careful where I was in relation to the spray paint, you know, didn't want to get paint like

00:02:22 ◼   ► on me or my shirt or anything. So I'm painting and I'm finishing up and this big gust of wind

00:02:27 ◼   ► comes out of nowhere. And one of the pieces that goes against the house is it's probably

00:02:32 ◼   ► eight inches tall. And I had it kind of sitting up with a rock behind it. So I could kind of

00:02:36 ◼   ► paint the edges of it. And it started to fall and the paint is wet. It's like, well, I don't

00:02:41 ◼   ► want it to fall on the cardboard and like get messed up. So I instinctually stuck my hand

00:02:46 ◼   ► doubt to keep it from falling. The thing that I had just painted. So not only did I mess

00:02:51 ◼   ► it up, but I had black spray paint across like four of my fingers and then had to like, this

00:02:57 ◼   ► was all happening like as my family was coming home from school. So I had to explain what was

00:03:00 ◼   ► going on. And anyways, I checked on it this morning. It'll be mostly okay. I got some touch

00:03:05 ◼   ► stuff to do. But the wind, the wind is tricky.

00:03:07 ◼   ► The problem was you did touch it up too much.

00:03:10 ◼   ► I did touch it up.

00:03:11 ◼   ► You still shouldn't do that. This is funny because this was the beginning of this project. You were

00:03:17 ◼   ► also late to a conference call that we were on because of it.

00:03:20 ◼   ► I was. Yeah, I was.

00:03:22 ◼   ► This is, this has been a very troubling project for you.

00:03:25 ◼   ► It is. But the, there's a house light at the end of the tunnel, as they say.

00:03:30 ◼   ► Follow up.

00:03:32 ◼   ► Follow up.

00:03:33 ◼   ► Mike, why is the Vision Pro heavier?

00:03:36 ◼   ► So on the last episode, you mentioned this about like the weight thing and people were

00:03:41 ◼   ► very upset about it, right? Like, oh, how can they make this thing heavier? And what they

00:03:45 ◼   ► actually did is they added counterweights. So the new strap, the, what is it? The jewel

00:03:51 ◼   ► loop, jewel knit loop.

00:03:52 ◼   ► Jewel knit strap band.

00:03:54 ◼   ► Did either of you buy this band, by the way?

00:03:56 ◼   ► No, no.

00:03:57 ◼   ► No? Okay. Neither did I. I am interested in it, but I haven't bought it.

00:04:02 ◼   ► I already have the, the 3D printed second one over the top of the head and I don't

00:04:07 ◼   ► use my Vision Pro. So like.

00:04:09 ◼   ► That's not comfortable.

00:04:10 ◼   ► I'm not going to spend any more money.

00:04:11 ◼   ► Everyone seems to like it, which makes me want it, but now it's sold out. And so I'm like,

00:04:16 ◼   ► well, if you're sold out, I can't be bothered to buy you. So that's kind of where I am.

00:04:20 ◼   ► But anyway, in the press release, a few people wrote in about this. We've got Matt in the

00:04:26 ◼   ► document here saying the lower strap features flexible fabric ribs embedded with tungsten inserts

00:04:30 ◼   ► to provide a counterweight for additional comfort balance and stability.

00:04:34 ◼   ► This was in the press release. And I think it says something about the, the way which news

00:04:41 ◼   ► is reported on social media. Like this information was available, but everyone's like just wants

00:04:45 ◼   ► a big take, right? So it's like, let's just post our take about how heavy the Vision Pro

00:04:49 ◼   ► is and it will get retweets on threads. We're going to talk about, uh, um, iOS, uh, the, the,

00:04:56 ◼   ► the liquid glass toggle thing later on in the show.

00:04:58 ◼   ► Sure. But when I'm talking about threads, my threads has been popping off, man. It's like

00:05:03 ◼   ► a war on, in my threads algorithm as to whether this is a good or a bad thing. Threads is unhinged

00:05:09 ◼   ► for design takes.

00:05:11 ◼   ► Design engagement, I think is what it is.

00:05:14 ◼   ► It's like, I just, I just get a lot of like Steve Jobs would never.

00:05:17 ◼   ► Oh, me too.

00:05:18 ◼   ► Oh my God.

00:05:18 ◼   ► It's unbelievable. It's truly incredible. Like, I wished I could give you my algorithms,

00:05:24 ◼   ► Federico, so you could see the kinds of design takes that I get on my, my threads algorithm.

00:05:29 ◼   ► It's, it's a thing to behold.

00:05:30 ◼   ► Somehow that still sounds better than being called a hypocrite over and over on Mastodon. So yeah.

00:05:36 ◼   ► Well, you know, well, you know, that's a give and take, you know, the ebb and flow, so to speak.

00:05:41 ◼   ► Again, that's, Federico, that is your Mastodon timeline. That is not mine.

00:05:46 ◼   ► Oh yes.

00:05:47 ◼   ► I don't have that problem.

00:05:49 ◼   ► Oh yes, yes.

00:05:50 ◼   ► Mastodon.

00:05:50 ◼   ► Yes, yes, yes, yes.

00:05:52 ◼   ► Yeah, that is your, that's yours.

00:05:54 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:05:55 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:05:56 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:05:57 ◼   ► Okay.

00:05:58 ◼   ► I spoke about my studio display backlight beginning to flicker and I was concerned it's out of warranty.

00:06:04 ◼   ► What was I going to do?

00:06:06 ◼   ► Uh, a bunch of people reached out and said, oh, I have it too.

00:06:12 ◼   ► And to a person, they're all running macOS Tahoe.

00:06:16 ◼   ► So like, okay, maybe it's a software issue with Tahoe and the studio display.

00:06:22 ◼   ► But then like two nights ago, I was doing something on Mary's MacBook Air.

00:06:27 ◼   ► Uh, she has an M4 MacBook Air and Sky Blue and it did it all of a sudden.

00:06:32 ◼   ► Also running.

00:06:34 ◼   ► Is that on Tahoe too?

00:06:34 ◼   ► Tahoe.

00:06:35 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:06:35 ◼   ► Okay.

00:06:36 ◼   ► Okay.

00:06:36 ◼   ► Now what those two screens have in common, right?

00:06:39 ◼   ► they're, they're LCD, they're not really HDR the way the MacBook Pro is.

00:06:45 ◼   ► And I haven't, I don't use my MacBook Pro by itself very much.

00:06:48 ◼   ► It's usually just docked, you know, next to my studio display.

00:06:51 ◼   ► But my only guess is that maybe Tahoe is trying to do something with HDR on a screen that doesn't really support it.

00:07:00 ◼   ► And so it gets weird.

00:07:01 ◼   ► Uh, I also noticed it.

00:07:02 ◼   ► I was in the Contacts application last night, um, on my studio display doing some stuff.

00:07:08 ◼   ► I was having a really crazy night over there.

00:07:10 ◼   ► It really was.

00:07:10 ◼   ► I was fixing some groups, you know?

00:07:12 ◼   ► And, uh, first of all, in Contacts on Tahoe, you can't make a new group.

00:07:16 ◼   ► It just doesn't do anything, which is just stellar.

00:07:20 ◼   ► And, uh, but then the, I really hate it.

00:07:23 ◼   ► Like the default background for a Contact that's like that blue to purple gradient, which I don't need on a Contact Apple.

00:07:29 ◼   ► It flickered, but just it and nothing else on the screen.

00:07:32 ◼   ► So I think it's like a weird HDR type deal.

00:07:35 ◼   ► And I'm not running 26.1 on anything to see if that fixes it.

00:07:39 ◼   ► But it does seem like it's software, which makes me feel better about my display, uh, you know, lasting me longer than it has.

00:07:48 ◼   ► So if you see this and you're on Tahoe, my hope is that Apple will, uh, will get it resolved.

00:07:53 ◼   ► Thus, I have filed feedback.

00:07:57 ◼   ► Oh, good for you.

00:07:58 ◼   ► Uh, last week I spoke about breaking my iPhone, uh, and my update at that point.

00:08:04 ◼   ► So I dropped it.

00:08:05 ◼   ► I contacted AppleCare and I'd had a call with AppleCare before the show, um, after speaking to like my cases escalated because I have an American phone and I was trying to get a replacement here in the UK.

00:08:16 ◼   ► And the person on the phone took great lengths to explain to me the fact that my phone, uh, would be a UK phone and I would be losing certain features, that kind of thing, you know, like middle, middle, middle wave, I guess.

00:08:29 ◼   ► So my phone arrived a couple of days ago, um, and I opened it up and the replacement phone process is interesting because like it isn't in a box that you would recognize.

00:08:44 ◼   ► It's like they're very, very plain boxes.

00:08:46 ◼   ► Um, like the serial number, like I saw, I saw an Instagram reel about this recently, but like your serial number can dictate what your device is.

00:08:56 ◼   ► Steven, did you know this?

00:08:57 ◼   ► Uh, yes.

00:08:58 ◼   ► And Apple is working to randomize them where that's not true anymore.

00:09:02 ◼   ► Um, but for, yeah, for, for years, like if you knew just like a car, like a car VIN number, if you know how to decode it, you know what it is, what country it was built in, that sort of thing.

00:09:13 ◼   ► And some of that data has been embedded in serial numbers too for a long time.

00:09:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:16 ◼   ► There's, there's a letter about like, if it's a refurb phone or a replacement phone or whatever.

00:09:21 ◼   ► And my serial number has the letter in it to say that it's a replacement phone.

00:09:25 ◼   ► Cause I was wondering for a minute, I'm like, oh, am I getting a refurb phone here?

00:09:28 ◼   ► Which is like not what I would particularly want.

00:09:30 ◼   ► Like I would want a new device realistically considering the insurance.

00:09:34 ◼   ► But anyway, so the box arrives, uh, I open it up and there's a SIM ejector tool on top.

00:09:39 ◼   ► I'm like, ah, yes, SIM tray.

00:09:41 ◼   ► I am going to have a SIM tray now.

00:09:43 ◼   ► And, uh, I take my phone out of the box.

00:09:45 ◼   ► And the first thing I know, this is a millimeter wave antenna on the top of my iPhone.

00:09:48 ◼   ► Hey.

00:09:49 ◼   ► I'm like, well, that ain't right.

00:09:51 ◼   ► That ain't right.

00:09:52 ◼   ► That's an American phone.

00:09:54 ◼   ► And then I started looking for the, the, um, the, the, the markings, the regulatory markings,

00:10:00 ◼   ► not on the phone and no SIM tray.

00:10:03 ◼   ► So they have replaced my U S phone of another U S phone, even though they told me that they

00:10:08 ◼   ► would not do that.

00:10:09 ◼   ► And I don't know how they have done that, but I have another 17 pro now here sitting next

00:10:15 ◼   ► to me is hilarious to have done a full restore again a month after I've just completed the

00:10:22 ◼   ► other one.

00:10:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:23 ◼   ► Uh, so I feel like I had it not even yet.

00:10:25 ◼   ► I was still picking up the crumbs of the last restore, you know, and now I did it all over

00:10:30 ◼   ► again.

00:10:30 ◼   ► Uh, by the way, I think I don't, I'm sure people know this, but you know, like there's always

00:10:34 ◼   ► this thing of like your, your iPhone would not, um, install your test flights.

00:10:39 ◼   ► It does now.

00:10:41 ◼   ► It does.

00:10:42 ◼   ► Yep.

00:10:42 ◼   ► It restores from the app store instead.

00:10:44 ◼   ► And then you just put the test light on, which is fantastic.

00:10:47 ◼   ► Like, I don't know when they changed that, but that's a good change.

00:10:50 ◼   ► I would always like have to look at my old home screen.

00:10:53 ◼   ► be like, what am I missing?

00:10:55 ◼   ► You know, cause you just, you kind of see through your home screen at some point, right?

00:10:58 ◼   ► It's like, Oh, I know this thing is here just by where it is.

00:11:01 ◼   ► And well, what I had started doing was just download in the app store versions of the test

00:11:05 ◼   ► flight apps, like, like replacing them, you know?

00:11:08 ◼   ► So it would be ready for the, for the upgrade.

00:11:10 ◼   ► But, but yeah, so I, for some reason I have an American iPhone again, I don't know how they

00:11:16 ◼   ► did this, but thank you.

00:11:18 ◼   ► Apple care, I guess.

00:11:19 ◼   ► A couple of things here.

00:11:20 ◼   ► I think it's possible that someone flew from the UK to America, got a phone and flew it back

00:11:26 ◼   ► just for you.

00:11:26 ◼   ► like in a suitcase, handcuffed to their wrist.

00:11:29 ◼   ► Hey, it's possible.

00:11:29 ◼   ► It's possible, right?

00:11:30 ◼   ► Like it did take a couple of days from when they said it would ship to when it did.

00:11:34 ◼   ► So maybe they did that.

00:11:35 ◼   ► That's because it was in a metal case, handcuffed to a dude.

00:11:38 ◼   ► Um, but really what we've learned is the millimeter wave antenna on top of the iPhone, it's kind

00:11:43 ◼   ► of like a hat that would signify somebody is American.

00:11:47 ◼   ► Yes.

00:11:48 ◼   ► Think of that what you will.

00:11:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:51 ◼   ► Make millimeter wave great again.

00:11:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:55 ◼   ► Well, congratulations.

00:11:57 ◼   ► So have you sent your other one back yet?

00:11:59 ◼   ► Like what's the, what's left in the process?

00:12:00 ◼   ► I'm doing that today or tomorrow.

00:12:03 ◼   ► Sorry.

00:12:03 ◼   ► I'm going to do that tomorrow.

00:12:04 ◼   ► So like last night I felt I was comfortable enough that I could like completely wipe the

00:12:10 ◼   ► phone.

00:12:10 ◼   ► Um, I felt like I'd done everything I needed, uh, at least as much as I can know that I should

00:12:15 ◼   ► do about the transferring from one to the other.

00:12:17 ◼   ► Cause some things just need your old phone, right?

00:12:20 ◼   ► Like it's just easier, like banking apps and stuff.

00:12:22 ◼   ► Like sometimes it's easier to, I don't know if you have this, but like I have one bank to

00:12:26 ◼   ► both my, my personal bank and my business bank.

00:12:29 ◼   ► They're both easier to move your online banking.

00:12:32 ◼   ► If you have the old device, like it'll like generate a QR code or whatever that you can

00:12:35 ◼   ► scan.

00:12:36 ◼   ► Um, and that, so I was making sure that I had everything as set up as possible.

00:12:40 ◼   ► Uh, I did somehow destroy our group thread in a way that I'm not entirely sure how it happened.

00:12:45 ◼   ► Um, but, but it did, uh, apologize to everybody for that.

00:12:48 ◼   ► Um, it just split the thread into two different threads and it was madness.

00:12:54 ◼   ► I actually think I worked it out that it was something to do with the state of my iMessage backup

00:12:59 ◼   ► syncing that like it was maybe pulling in different things over time.

00:13:04 ◼   ► I don't know, but it was only splitting the thread if I was sending some stuff by the share

00:13:07 ◼   ► sheet, which doesn't make any sense, but there we go.

00:13:10 ◼   ► Um, but yeah, so I've, I've wiped the phone, put it in the box and then tomorrow I'm going

00:13:15 ◼   ► to take it to a store, like to have it picked up by UPS or whatever.

00:13:18 ◼   ► And then hopefully it gets back to them in time and then all taken care of for the low,

00:13:24 ◼   ► low price is 79 pounds plus the Apple care cost.

00:13:28 ◼   ► There you go.

00:13:28 ◼   ► Well, I'm glad it's resolved.

00:13:30 ◼   ► Did you guys see this cool new Apple watch ultra band from Nomad?

00:13:36 ◼   ► Yes.

00:13:37 ◼   ► And ordered one immediately.

00:13:39 ◼   ► Me too.

00:13:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:13:42 ◼   ► I'm very interested to see what the two of you think about it.

00:13:44 ◼   ► Have I ever told you my unnecessary, like prejudice against Apple watch bands?

00:13:49 ◼   ► Have I ever told you about this?

00:13:50 ◼   ► No.

00:13:51 ◼   ► I don't trust anyone else other than Apple to make a band that will stay on the watch.

00:13:56 ◼   ► This is like when you didn't trust wireless chargers.

00:13:59 ◼   ► It is.

00:13:59 ◼   ► I still don't.

00:14:00 ◼   ► I still don't trust wireless charging.

00:14:02 ◼   ► This doesn't make any sense.

00:14:05 ◼   ► I mean, in theory, it's like the reason that I don't trust it is because Apple offers lugs

00:14:11 ◼   ► and nobody takes them.

00:14:12 ◼   ► And I know why they don't because it's probably too expensive and everybody just engineers their

00:14:16 ◼   ► own.

00:14:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:18 ◼   ► And I'm sure it's fine, especially Nomad.

00:14:20 ◼   ► Like I know many people who have Nomad watch bands.

00:14:23 ◼   ► So if you two like this one, I'm probably going to get the titanium gray one for my Apple watch.

00:14:31 ◼   ► Yes.

00:14:32 ◼   ► So this band, it looks very clever.

00:14:34 ◼   ► It is on the outside, a titanium band, both in the dark and the natural titanium.

00:14:40 ◼   ► But then on the inside, like where the normally the lugs or not the lugs, but I guess like

00:14:46 ◼   ► the links would be metal top and bottom.

00:14:49 ◼   ► But these, the inner links are made of their sort of floor master rubber type sports material.

00:14:56 ◼   ► Yep.

00:14:56 ◼   ► Yep.

00:14:56 ◼   ► Yep.

00:14:56 ◼   ► Got it.

00:14:57 ◼   ► You got it.

00:14:57 ◼   ► And three colors, black, orange, and then what they, I think they call their green, like

00:15:03 ◼   ► volt.

00:15:03 ◼   ► It's like a bright lime green.

00:15:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:06 ◼   ► It looks like a kind of like a safety yellow kind of color.

00:15:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:10 ◼   ► So I ordered the black and orange and I am very excited about this because I would like

00:15:14 ◼   ► something a little dressier sometimes, but I don't like the metal bands I have tried.

00:15:20 ◼   ► They've never stuck.

00:15:21 ◼   ► Um, and so maybe this with the rubber on the inside will be a little more tolerable to me

00:15:27 ◼   ► for whatever reason.

00:15:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:29 ◼   ► So I'm very interested to hear from the both of you, how the combination of materials actually

00:15:35 ◼   ► feels right.

00:15:36 ◼   ► Cause I'm, I'm not convinced yet.

00:15:38 ◼   ► Um, yeah.

00:15:40 ◼   ► And also what the, uh, the clasp is like to operate.

00:15:43 ◼   ► Those are, that, that's important to me.

00:15:46 ◼   ► Like how, how does it feel to take it on and off?

00:15:48 ◼   ► Um, so yeah, I'll, I'll be very, I'm very intrigued.

00:15:51 ◼   ► I'm very intrigued.

00:15:52 ◼   ► I, this is the first Apple watch band not made by Apple where I'm like, I would actually quite

00:15:57 ◼   ► like that product.

00:15:58 ◼   ► So yeah, I was very intrigued because of the, because of that, because the combination of

00:16:03 ◼   ► the two materials, like it's titanium, but it's also flexible.

00:16:06 ◼   ► Thanks to the rubber inserts in the back.

00:16:08 ◼   ► So it's coming on.

00:16:09 ◼   ► Let's see.

00:16:10 ◼   ► Monday, Tuesday.

00:16:11 ◼   ► When is it coming?

00:16:11 ◼   ► It's coming on Monday.

00:16:14 ◼   ► So we'll talk about it next week.

00:16:17 ◼   ► It's in front.

00:16:17 ◼   ► I am also intrigued about that flexibility.

00:16:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:21 ◼   ► Like, is it actually?

00:16:23 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:16:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:24 ◼   ► We'll, we'll flex it for you.

00:16:26 ◼   ► Like, please flex on me.

00:16:28 ◼   ► You're going to flex on me.

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00:18:09 ◼   ► Oh, no.

00:18:14 ◼   ► Oh, no.

00:18:18 ◼   ► Welcome back to the Quizzes, the quiz show within a podcast where I'm Mike Hurley,

00:18:22 ◼   ► quiz my connected co-host randomly and by surprise on a variety of varying subjects.

00:18:26 ◼   ► Stephen, you didn't get to finish your statement.

00:18:28 ◼   ► I thought that we were done.

00:18:29 ◼   ► What did you say?

00:18:30 ◼   ► When does your ship, your nomad band?

00:18:32 ◼   ► October 28th.

00:18:35 ◼   ► Okay.

00:18:35 ◼   ► That doesn't get you any points that you gave me the answer to that question, just so you

00:18:38 ◼   ► know.

00:18:38 ◼   ► So far in the 2025 quizzes, Stephen is at 420 points and Federico is at 215 points.

00:18:47 ◼   ► Today, we're going to be doing a quiz about the iPad Pro over its lifetime.

00:18:54 ◼   ► Okay.

00:18:55 ◼   ► In honor of the fact that we'll be talking about Federico's iPad Pro review today.

00:19:00 ◼   ► Now, I'm going to make, how many points?

00:19:04 ◼   ► I was thinking 10.

00:19:05 ◼   ► Yeah, actually, let's say I'm going to do 20 points per correct answer today.

00:19:12 ◼   ► That's what we're going to go with.

00:19:13 ◼   ► But we're going to do a new, we have a new system here.

00:19:16 ◼   ► All right.

00:19:17 ◼   ► So I've received, whenever we do one of these, I get a lot of feedback from people about how

00:19:21 ◼   ► they don't like how the game works, right?

00:19:23 ◼   ► Like there's many things.

00:19:25 ◼   ► But there is one piece of feedback that I appreciate and I agree with.

00:19:29 ◼   ► So what I want you both to do right now is to open an iMessage just to me.

00:19:34 ◼   ► Okay.

00:19:35 ◼   ► Because for this game and maybe forever, I'm not sure, the two of you will text me your

00:19:42 ◼   ► answers before you say them.

00:19:43 ◼   ► You should come out of Do Not Disturb or it's unfair.

00:19:46 ◼   ► I've got iPhones in my hand.

00:19:48 ◼   ► Wait, what do you mean Do Not Disturb?

00:19:50 ◼   ► What are you talking about fairness?

00:19:52 ◼   ► I see Mike has notifications silenced.

00:19:54 ◼   ► I'm looking at my iPhone.

00:19:55 ◼   ► So you know who's coming in first.

00:19:57 ◼   ► It's not a speed thing.

00:19:57 ◼   ► It's not a speed thing.

00:19:58 ◼   ► Okay.

00:19:59 ◼   ► Oh, I thought it was like a buzzer, but the buzzer was your iPhone.

00:20:02 ◼   ► No, no, no, no, no.

00:20:04 ◼   ► You're both just going to text me your answers and then you will tell the people, right?

00:20:09 ◼   ► Like what your answers are.

00:20:10 ◼   ► Really, this has come from the trivia segment of Waveform.

00:20:14 ◼   ► I like how they do it.

00:20:16 ◼   ► They have like whiteboards and stuff, but we're not doing that because we're an audio podcast.

00:20:21 ◼   ► So this is purely for accountability.

00:20:23 ◼   ► And also, it's so, I am sure on at least one occasion, at least one occasion, you have

00:20:31 ◼   ► both been swayed by the answer of the other person.

00:20:33 ◼   ► Sure.

00:20:34 ◼   ► Because that is just natural human behavior where someone's like, says the thing that you

00:20:38 ◼   ► didn't know and now you know it.

00:20:40 ◼   ► So I'm trying to avoid that.

00:20:42 ◼   ► So yeah, Federica.

00:20:45 ◼   ► Federica's making me really good offers.

00:20:48 ◼   ► Are you texting collusion?

00:20:51 ◼   ► Yes.

00:20:52 ◼   ► They gave me great offers so far.

00:20:53 ◼   ► Yes.

00:20:54 ◼   ► Great offers.

00:20:54 ◼   ► I texted Mike, let me win.

00:20:56 ◼   ► I'll give you two euros.

00:20:57 ◼   ► That converts, thanks to Yahoo Finance, to one pound 74 pence, which is...

00:21:04 ◼   ► Yeah, you can buy a coffee.

00:21:05 ◼   ► I actually cannot.

00:21:06 ◼   ► I actually cannot do that.

00:21:08 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:21:08 ◼   ► An espresso.

00:21:08 ◼   ► Nope.

00:21:09 ◼   ► Not even an espresso.

00:21:10 ◼   ► Oh my God.

00:21:10 ◼   ► Not even that.

00:21:11 ◼   ► No, I live in London.

00:21:12 ◼   ► I can't buy anything.

00:21:13 ◼   ► One pound 74 could buy me nothing in this.

00:21:16 ◼   ► Oh my God.

00:21:16 ◼   ► I can get an espresso for one euro.

00:21:18 ◼   ► They call that caffeination inflation.

00:21:20 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:21:22 ◼   ► Steven just lost 100 points.

00:21:24 ◼   ► Yes.

00:21:25 ◼   ► So hold on, hold on.

00:21:28 ◼   ► We're not supposed to think out loud either.

00:21:30 ◼   ► All right.

00:21:32 ◼   ► Look, don't be completely silent because this is an audio podcast, right?

00:21:35 ◼   ► Right.

00:21:36 ◼   ► So like we need to make some kind of noise during you coming up with your answers.

00:21:40 ◼   ► Can it be hmm?

00:21:41 ◼   ► You can do that.

00:21:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:43 ◼   ► You can do a little bit of that.

00:21:44 ◼   ► You can, we can see how it goes, but this is, this is instead of me saying like, you go

00:21:49 ◼   ► first, you go first, you're just going to text me your answers, but then I will ask

00:21:54 ◼   ► you each to read your answers and then I will tell you if they're right or wrong.

00:21:56 ◼   ► Does that make sense?

00:21:57 ◼   ► Yes.

00:21:58 ◼   ► Okay.

00:21:58 ◼   ► All right.

00:21:59 ◼   ► So you can just, you can answer as soon as you want.

00:22:02 ◼   ► You could just send me your text message and, and that's the way it's going to go.

00:22:05 ◼   ► It's going to be hard not to do this out loud.

00:22:08 ◼   ► I have to bite my tongue.

00:22:09 ◼   ► Again, I want you to make some level of noise, you know, thinking about it, talking about how

00:22:15 ◼   ► hard or brilliant the questions are, that kind of thing.

00:22:18 ◼   ► Oh, got it.

00:22:19 ◼   ► I have eight questions for you in total today.

00:22:22 ◼   ► Okay.

00:22:22 ◼   ► Okay.

00:22:22 ◼   ► Question number one, which year was the original iPad pro announced and what iPhone was also

00:22:32 ◼   ► announced at that event?

00:22:34 ◼   ► You have to give me the answers to both of these to score the 20 points and they both have

00:22:39 ◼   ► to be correct.

00:22:39 ◼   ► So the, the original iPad pro, what year was it announced and what was the iPhone that was

00:22:46 ◼   ► announced alongside of it?

00:22:48 ◼   ► So you want us to make sound as we think?

00:22:50 ◼   ► I want you to just not go completely silent.

00:22:53 ◼   ► I've got, I love this.

00:22:54 ◼   ► I'm looking at just my messages home screen right now and I have two dot, dot, dots from

00:22:58 ◼   ► my friends here.

00:22:59 ◼   ► Now imagine how good this makes me feel that like two of my best friends are texting me

00:23:03 ◼   ► at the same time.

00:23:04 ◼   ► You know, it's just a nice feeling.

00:23:05 ◼   ► Okay.

00:23:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:07 ◼   ► I sent my, my answer.

00:23:09 ◼   ► Mine's in.

00:23:09 ◼   ► I feel pretty good about that.

00:23:11 ◼   ► Okay.

00:23:12 ◼   ► So Federico, what is your answer?

00:23:14 ◼   ► I said 2015 iPhone seven.

00:23:16 ◼   ► Okay.

00:23:17 ◼   ► Steven?

00:23:18 ◼   ► 2015 iPhone 6s and 6s plus.

00:23:21 ◼   ► Steven takes the 20 points.

00:23:23 ◼   ► Well, I forgot about it, about the 6s.

00:23:26 ◼   ► Yep.

00:23:26 ◼   ► Everybody did.

00:23:27 ◼   ► Yep.

00:23:28 ◼   ► Were you, were you doing that mathematically Federico?

00:23:31 ◼   ► I just, I just remember that the six was in 2014 and I thought, oh yeah, after the six,

00:23:36 ◼   ► there's a seven, but no, it was not the seven.

00:23:37 ◼   ► It was the last S phone, wasn't it?

00:23:40 ◼   ► No, we had the 10s.

00:23:41 ◼   ► No.

00:23:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:42 ◼   ► Was the S the first big one or was the six also?

00:23:45 ◼   ► The six was the first big one.

00:23:46 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:23:47 ◼   ► There was the mic.

00:23:48 ◼   ► So far, 20, yes, I know it had 20 points.

00:23:52 ◼   ► 20 points for Steven.

00:23:54 ◼   ► Okay.

00:23:54 ◼   ► 3D touch, man.

00:23:56 ◼   ► 3D touch.

00:23:56 ◼   ► You know, I was just talking about this the other day.

00:23:59 ◼   ► I, I missed that so much.

00:24:00 ◼   ► Like I know we still have the thing that it does, but it's just not as good.

00:24:03 ◼   ► 3D touch was fantastic.

00:24:06 ◼   ► It's a shame that that's gone.

00:24:07 ◼   ► Question number two.

00:24:08 ◼   ► What was the first iPad pro to include face ID?

00:24:12 ◼   ► Ooh.

00:24:14 ◼   ► You can give me model year or generation number.

00:24:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:19 ◼   ► I, boy, I, um, trauma vest not to make these easy.

00:24:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:28 ◼   ► That's legitimately difficult.

00:24:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:31 ◼   ► I can tell you the circumstance that I remember.

00:24:35 ◼   ► Okay.

00:24:37 ◼   ► If the circumstance has the year in it, then that will count.

00:24:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:43 ◼   ► There was only one of these circumstances.

00:24:45 ◼   ► So I think it qualifies as a point.

00:24:48 ◼   ► But it's up to Mike, really.

00:24:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:53 ◼   ► Well, yeah, it's up to Mike.

00:24:54 ◼   ► I sent my, I sent my answer.

00:24:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:57 ◼   ► I don't feel good about that, but.

00:24:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:00 ◼   ► Okay.

00:25:00 ◼   ► Uh, Federico, tell me your, your, your answer.

00:25:03 ◼   ► I said iPad pro announced at the Brooklyn event.

00:25:06 ◼   ► Okay.

00:25:07 ◼   ► That won't score.

00:25:07 ◼   ► We'll find out if that was correct or not, but I can't give you the points for that.

00:25:11 ◼   ► Uh, Steven.

00:25:12 ◼   ► Why not?

00:25:13 ◼   ► That is correct.

00:25:14 ◼   ► Because that is not, that is not an iPad.

00:25:16 ◼   ► That is not like, we can't be like, ah, you know, the Brooklyn iPad.

00:25:19 ◼   ► That is not like a thing that we can all agree with.

00:25:21 ◼   ► Why not?

00:25:21 ◼   ► There was only one event.

00:25:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:24 ◼   ► Remember that weird one they did in that Chicago school?

00:25:26 ◼   ► That was strange.

00:25:27 ◼   ► There was only one of those.

00:25:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:29 ◼   ► It was 2018.

00:25:30 ◼   ► That is not how anybody thinks.

00:25:33 ◼   ► Wait, what did you just say?

00:25:34 ◼   ► 2018.

00:25:35 ◼   ► No.

00:25:36 ◼   ► Is it, you're talking about Chicago or Brooklyn?

00:25:38 ◼   ► Brooklyn.

00:25:40 ◼   ► Why don't you just give me that as your answer?

00:25:42 ◼   ► No, because I remember the Brooklyn event first and then I thought about which year was it?

00:25:47 ◼   ► And I said 2018 because it was after, like, you want a quick answer.

00:25:51 ◼   ► I gave you a quick answer.

00:25:52 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:25:53 ◼   ► It doesn't have to be that quick.

00:25:55 ◼   ► You can think about it.

00:25:56 ◼   ► Uh, Steven, what was your answer?

00:25:57 ◼   ► 2018.

00:25:58 ◼   ► You're both getting the points for that one.

00:26:00 ◼   ► Federico.

00:26:00 ◼   ► Oh, no, he talked himself into it.

00:26:02 ◼   ► Come on.

00:26:03 ◼   ► It doesn't matter.

00:26:04 ◼   ► There was only one Brooklyn event.

00:26:06 ◼   ► I mean, come on.

00:26:06 ◼   ► I'm giving him the points.

00:26:07 ◼   ► I'm giving him the points because this may have just been an issue with the way that I explained it.

00:26:10 ◼   ► You don't have to be that quick, right?

00:26:12 ◼   ► You can take a second to think about it still.

00:26:14 ◼   ► You're both getting the points for that one.

00:26:15 ◼   ► It was the 2018 iPad event.

00:26:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:17 ◼   ► That was also the, uh, Retina MacBook Air, I think.

00:26:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:21 ◼   ► If, I will just say, if he would have said that after you gave your answer, Steven, I would not have given him the points.

00:26:27 ◼   ► Okay.

00:26:27 ◼   ► Right.

00:26:28 ◼   ► But he said it before you said anything.

00:26:30 ◼   ► So, so I need to jump in.

00:26:31 ◼   ► As soon as he answers, I'll give my answer.

00:26:33 ◼   ► Okay.

00:26:34 ◼   ► Uh, what?

00:26:35 ◼   ► Okay.

00:26:36 ◼   ► Question number three.

00:26:38 ◼   ► Which iPad Pro model was the first to offer a mini LED Liquid Retina XDR display?

00:26:45 ◼   ► Oh.

00:26:46 ◼   ► God, those names are awful when you hear them out loud.

00:26:48 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:26:49 ◼   ► Mini LED.

00:26:50 ◼   ► Mini LED.

00:26:52 ◼   ► For this one, I need two pieces of information from you for it to count.

00:26:58 ◼   ► It can be either, again, the year or the generation, and then also the iPad size.

00:27:04 ◼   ► Oh, that.

00:27:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:09 ◼   ► Oh.

00:27:11 ◼   ► This is a mini LED.

00:27:14 ◼   ► Liquid Retina XDR display.

00:27:16 ◼   ► I'm torn between two, but I'm going, I'm going with, uh, you know, I'm going with this one.

00:27:22 ◼   ► Oh, you both texted me at the exact same time.

00:27:27 ◼   ► Okay.

00:27:27 ◼   ► That was amazing.

00:27:28 ◼   ► All right, Steven, what's your answer?

00:27:31 ◼   ► The 12.9 inch in 2020.

00:27:35 ◼   ► Federico, what is your answer?

00:27:38 ◼   ► I said M1 iPad Pro 12.9.

00:27:41 ◼   ► Federico is correct.

00:27:43 ◼   ► What?

00:27:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:46 ◼   ► Because, so, I remember that, um, everybody was focused on the, on the chip, but I did a

00:27:52 ◼   ► big segment in my review about the display.

00:27:54 ◼   ► And I remember that for the M2, uh, review, which I read again a couple of days ago, I had a line

00:28:02 ◼   ► that said, and in addition to the display that I mentioned last year, something, something,

00:28:07 ◼   ► and for the M2, I focused on, well, no, I don't want to say it in case there's a, there's a question.

00:28:12 ◼   ► I think you're wrong, Mike, uh, why do you think I'm wrong?

00:28:16 ◼   ► You said liquid retina XDR?

00:28:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:19 ◼   ► Mini LED.

00:28:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:22 ◼   ► With mini LED.

00:28:23 ◼   ► Oh, they call, oh, so there were, was there a liquid retina XDR that wasn't mini LED?

00:28:29 ◼   ► Yes.

00:28:30 ◼   ► I don't know, but you were doing too much Googling during the quiz.

00:28:32 ◼   ► Okay.

00:28:32 ◼   ► Okay.

00:28:33 ◼   ► I'll stop.

00:28:33 ◼   ► I'll stop.

00:28:33 ◼   ► I think so.

00:28:34 ◼   ► I think the 2018 iPad, the 2018, the Brooklyn one, Steven, I think it was called liquid retina

00:28:40 ◼   ► XDR, but it was not mini LED.

00:28:42 ◼   ► Got it.

00:28:43 ◼   ► I think.

00:28:43 ◼   ► Okay.

00:28:44 ◼   ► But this is, the mini LED part is the part that is the most important.

00:28:47 ◼   ► Okay.

00:28:47 ◼   ► Okay.

00:28:48 ◼   ► I'll trust your research.

00:28:49 ◼   ► All of these questions come from the five folks over at Wikipedia.

00:28:54 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:28:55 ◼   ► There's a lot of good information on Wikipedia.

00:28:57 ◼   ► Good website.

00:28:58 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a good website.

00:28:59 ◼   ► The 2020 iPad Pro with the A12Z chip had a dual camera system and a new sensor.

00:29:07 ◼   ► What was the new sensor?

00:29:12 ◼   ► Wow, that was fast.

00:29:14 ◼   ► Okay.

00:29:14 ◼   ► Federico?

00:29:15 ◼   ► Can I say it?

00:29:17 ◼   ► Steven Sentes?

00:29:18 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:29:18 ◼   ► You're giving me your answer.

00:29:19 ◼   ► Yeah, you've both given me your answers.

00:29:20 ◼   ► It was a LiDAR sensor.

00:29:22 ◼   ► Yep.

00:29:22 ◼   ► LiDAR.

00:29:23 ◼   ► And you've both got 20 points.

00:29:24 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:29:25 ◼   ► Yep.

00:29:26 ◼   ► Okay.

00:29:26 ◼   ► That one was easier than I thought it was.

00:29:27 ◼   ► That was.

00:29:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:29 ◼   ► I should have, you know what?

00:29:30 ◼   ► I should have not included the camera part.

00:29:31 ◼   ► I just said it had a new sensor.

00:29:32 ◼   ► Would you, if I would have said the A12Z had a new sensor, what was it?

00:29:37 ◼   ► Would you have gotten it?

00:29:37 ◼   ► I would have.

00:29:37 ◼   ► No.

00:29:38 ◼   ► Yes.

00:29:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:39 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:29:41 ◼   ► Because then I could see the camera bump in my mind, and it was there.

00:29:45 ◼   ► Yeah, and you saw the extra spaces.

00:29:46 ◼   ► I visualized my victory.

00:29:49 ◼   ► Does the iPhone, is that LiDAR, that little black circle?

00:29:52 ◼   ► That's a LiDAR sensor still.

00:29:53 ◼   ► On the Pro, yes.

00:29:54 ◼   ► I don't, the Air doesn't have LiDAR, though.

00:29:56 ◼   ► No.

00:29:57 ◼   ► Did they use that for autofocus?

00:29:59 ◼   ► Like, what is that even there for now?

00:30:00 ◼   ► Augmented reality.

00:30:03 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, of course.

00:30:04 ◼   ► How could I forget?

00:30:05 ◼   ► So, anyway.

00:30:05 ◼   ► Question number five.

00:30:07 ◼   ► Which chip powered the first generation 2015 iPad Pro?

00:30:13 ◼   ► Oh, goodness.

00:30:15 ◼   ► That is a devious question.

00:30:21 ◼   ► Now I'm counting chip generations, which is a bad idea.

00:30:26 ◼   ► Good luck.

00:30:26 ◼   ► Wow.

00:30:35 ◼   ► Which chip generation in the first iPad Pro?

00:30:38 ◼   ► Yep.

00:30:40 ◼   ► Well, obviously, they were not called M.

00:30:47 ◼   ► I've submitted my answer.

00:30:48 ◼   ► Well, I submitted a answer.

00:30:49 ◼   ► I don't know if it's good or not.

00:30:51 ◼   ► I...

00:30:53 ◼   ► I'm torn between two.

00:30:56 ◼   ► Okay.

00:30:57 ◼   ► Ah, whatever.

00:31:00 ◼   ► This is going to be wrong, because chip names are not my forte, so to speak.

00:31:04 ◼   ► Ah, whatever.

00:31:08 ◼   ► Okay.

00:31:09 ◼   ► Federico?

00:31:10 ◼   ► I said A9.

00:31:12 ◼   ► Steven?

00:31:13 ◼   ► I said A9X Bionic.

00:31:16 ◼   ► I'm going to give that to you, Steven.

00:31:18 ◼   ► It was the A9X.

00:31:19 ◼   ► I don't believe it had an A9X.

00:31:21 ◼   ► Ah, come on.

00:31:21 ◼   ► Okay.

00:31:22 ◼   ► It was the X.

00:31:22 ◼   ► Yep.

00:31:23 ◼   ► Or GPU.

00:31:24 ◼   ► I don't know if...

00:31:26 ◼   ► Maybe the A9X was just for the iPad Pro, maybe?

00:31:31 ◼   ► Probably.

00:31:31 ◼   ► Yeah, okay.

00:31:33 ◼   ► It was...

00:31:34 ◼   ► Oh, it was actually also in the Apple TV 4K.

00:31:36 ◼   ► Of course it was.

00:31:38 ◼   ► It says unreleased here?

00:31:39 ◼   ► I don't know what that means.

00:31:40 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:31:41 ◼   ► That never happened.

00:31:42 ◼   ► I totally forgot that the A9X existed.

00:31:45 ◼   ► The A9X was only in the 12.9-inch iPad Pro, and then the 9.7-inch iPad Pro as well.

00:31:53 ◼   ► Oh, I forgot about that iPad Pro.

00:31:55 ◼   ► The little one.

00:31:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:57 ◼   ► Let me just check something in here.

00:31:59 ◼   ► I think that's the iPad Pro that Phil Schiller was like, we did this for PC Switchers.

00:32:03 ◼   ► I was like, what PC Switcher wants a 9.7-inch iPad Pro?

00:32:06 ◼   ► What is surprising is that came a year later, that 9.7-inch iPad Pro.

00:32:11 ◼   ► That felt like it came way later than that.

00:32:12 ◼   ► A whole year?

00:32:13 ◼   ► 2016.

00:32:15 ◼   ► Huh.

00:32:16 ◼   ► I feel like that was like years.

00:32:18 ◼   ► I think it was with the iPhone SE, because it was like, this event is for little products.

00:32:22 ◼   ► Oh, and when was the one that you had, Federico?

00:32:27 ◼   ► Was that a 10-inch one that we did at WWDC?

00:32:29 ◼   ► 10.5.

00:32:30 ◼   ► 10.5.

00:32:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:32 ◼   ► Again, you felt like you were really answering a question for points there.

00:32:36 ◼   ► That was just me asking you a thing.

00:32:38 ◼   ► That was a good size.

00:32:39 ◼   ► The 10.5 was great.

00:32:41 ◼   ► That was great.

00:32:41 ◼   ► That was a great iPad.

00:32:42 ◼   ► I mean, well, it set the foundation for what we have today.

00:32:45 ◼   ► Question.

00:32:45 ◼   ► Oh, actually, I have nine questions.

00:32:47 ◼   ► I just didn't number one of them.

00:32:49 ◼   ► Oh.

00:32:49 ◼   ► So, this is a secret question.

00:32:52 ◼   ► This is the question 8X.

00:32:54 ◼   ► Oh, wait.

00:32:55 ◼   ► How many questions do I have?

00:32:56 ◼   ► Wait.

00:32:56 ◼   ► One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.

00:33:00 ◼   ► I have 10 questions.

00:33:02 ◼   ► No, we've done five.

00:33:03 ◼   ► Oh, wow.

00:33:03 ◼   ► Right?

00:33:03 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:33:05 ◼   ► Hang on.

00:33:05 ◼   ► I'm looking at my text to you.

00:33:06 ◼   ► One, two, three, four, five.

00:33:07 ◼   ► How many points do I get?

00:33:08 ◼   ► One, two, three.

00:33:10 ◼   ► Wait.

00:33:11 ◼   ► One, two.

00:33:13 ◼   ► I'm a terrible quiz master.

00:33:14 ◼   ► Four, five, six, seven, eight.

00:33:17 ◼   ► We have 10 questions today.

00:33:18 ◼   ► Have fun.

00:33:19 ◼   ► Okay.

00:33:19 ◼   ► We've done five questions.

00:33:20 ◼   ► Question number six.

00:33:23 ◼   ► What was the key differentiator between the A12X and A12Z chips?

00:33:30 ◼   ► Oh, jeez.

00:33:31 ◼   ► A12.

00:33:33 ◼   ► A12X from 2018 and the A127.

00:33:37 ◼   ► Wait, no.

00:33:38 ◼   ► A12Z.

00:33:39 ◼   ► I've run 2020.

00:33:41 ◼   ► So, what was the key differentiator between those two chips?

00:33:47 ◼   ► Gosh.

00:33:48 ◼   ► Okay.

00:33:48 ◼   ► I sent my answer.

00:33:49 ◼   ► Okay.

00:33:50 ◼   ► Probably wrong.

00:33:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:55 ◼   ► I have no idea.

00:33:56 ◼   ► Okay.

00:33:57 ◼   ► Steven?

00:33:58 ◼   ► I said one more GPU core.

00:34:00 ◼   ► Federico?

00:34:01 ◼   ► I said one extra GPU core.

00:34:03 ◼   ► You both get the points.

00:34:04 ◼   ► That's 20 points each.

00:34:05 ◼   ► No way.

00:34:06 ◼   ► Yep.

00:34:07 ◼   ► Was that the chip that was in that weird Mac mini?

00:34:10 ◼   ► I think it was.

00:34:11 ◼   ► Which one?

00:34:12 ◼   ► The A12Z?

00:34:13 ◼   ► The developer kit?

00:34:14 ◼   ► The A12Z?

00:34:14 ◼   ► So, you need to stop Googling.

00:34:16 ◼   ► I'm not getting...

00:34:16 ◼   ► My hands are off the keyboard.

00:34:17 ◼   ► I don't know what you're doing.

00:34:19 ◼   ► My hands are upright.

00:34:19 ◼   ► If this were upgraded, you could tell.

00:34:22 ◼   ► The A12X Bionic.

00:34:25 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure the Z was in that Mac mini.

00:34:30 ◼   ► Yes.

00:34:33 ◼   ► The DTK.

00:34:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:34 ◼   ► I really want one of those.

00:34:35 ◼   ► If you're out there and have one, mail it to me.

00:34:37 ◼   ► Nobody should have one.

00:34:39 ◼   ► Oh, they're out there.

00:34:40 ◼   ► I'm sure they are, but nobody should have one.

00:34:42 ◼   ► Did I tell you I bought a developer kit of the original Apple TV recently?

00:34:46 ◼   ► Why did you do that?

00:34:48 ◼   ► Because it was like $5 at a Goodwill.

00:34:52 ◼   ► Why was it at a Goodwill?

00:34:54 ◼   ► Someone, I guess, was developing on it and then gave it away instead of sending it back.

00:34:59 ◼   ► That's incredible.

00:35:00 ◼   ► It doesn't power on, but it's kind of a cool piece of history.

00:35:03 ◼   ► I mean, not with that amount of energy.

00:35:05 ◼   ► Maybe you could do it if you put the effort in.

00:35:07 ◼   ► Question number seven.

00:35:09 ◼   ► Jeez.

00:35:09 ◼   ► By the way, it's 100 points to Steven and 80 points to Federico.

00:35:15 ◼   ► So, this is very close.

00:35:16 ◼   ► This is a very close game so far.

00:35:17 ◼   ► Question seven.

00:35:19 ◼   ► Which iPad Pro was accompanied by the What's a Computer ad campaign?

00:35:23 ◼   ► Ooh.

00:35:25 ◼   ► Ah, now that is difficult.

00:35:27 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:35:29 ◼   ► That's...

00:35:29 ◼   ► Oh, boy.

00:35:30 ◼   ► No, that's impossible.

00:35:31 ◼   ► This is a blind guess.

00:35:35 ◼   ► I remember people being very mad about that ad.

00:35:37 ◼   ► I need...

00:35:39 ◼   ► Sorry.

00:35:39 ◼   ► So, I didn't say this.

00:35:41 ◼   ► So, I'm going to say this.

00:35:41 ◼   ► I need year or generation.

00:35:43 ◼   ► Oh, what?

00:35:45 ◼   ► My answer is not...

00:35:48 ◼   ► My answer is...

00:35:48 ◼   ► Steven, the answer you have given me means nothing.

00:35:51 ◼   ► It means nothing.

00:35:51 ◼   ► Yes, it does.

00:35:53 ◼   ► Oh.

00:35:53 ◼   ► When was that?

00:35:56 ◼   ► Well, that's the answer.

00:35:58 ◼   ► That's the answer to the question.

00:36:00 ◼   ► Is when was that?

00:36:03 ◼   ► I've clarified.

00:36:04 ◼   ► By the way, so, in the Discord, people are guessing.

00:36:08 ◼   ► Zoe has, I think, had a 100% success rate so far, which is incredible.

00:36:14 ◼   ► I don't know how.

00:36:15 ◼   ► I don't know how.

00:36:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:16 ◼   ► They have an incredible brain for facts.

00:36:18 ◼   ► Just think yourself lucky that you're not playing against them as well as each other.

00:36:22 ◼   ► Federico, I need an answer, please.

00:36:25 ◼   ► Oh, I...

00:36:27 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:36:28 ◼   ► Did you send it and it's just stuck in the iMessage way?

00:36:31 ◼   ► No, no, no, no.

00:36:32 ◼   ► I'm still thinking.

00:36:34 ◼   ► What's a computer?

00:36:37 ◼   ► Was the ad campaign?

00:36:38 ◼   ► That is the...

00:36:39 ◼   ► Yes.

00:36:39 ◼   ► You successfully sent the question back to me.

00:36:43 ◼   ► So, Steven sent his answer, right?

00:36:45 ◼   ► Steven has sent his answer, yes.

00:36:46 ◼   ► This is incredible stalling, by the way.

00:36:48 ◼   ► And I'm going to have to press you.

00:36:49 ◼   ► So, you're going to have to give me an answer, please.

00:36:51 ◼   ► Just pick a year.

00:36:52 ◼   ► Pick a year.

00:36:52 ◼   ► It's pretty windy out there, you know?

00:36:54 ◼   ► Just give me a year.

00:36:54 ◼   ► Yes, that's a good point.

00:36:56 ◼   ► Okay, okay.

00:36:57 ◼   ► I don't remember what came after, but that seems too far away.

00:37:03 ◼   ► I'm turning between two again.

00:37:05 ◼   ► Okay.

00:37:06 ◼   ► I am going to go with...

00:37:10 ◼   ► Okay.

00:37:11 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:37:11 ◼   ► Steven, what have you got?

00:37:13 ◼   ► I said the 9.7 inch in 2016.

00:37:16 ◼   ► That is incorrect.

00:37:18 ◼   ► Federico?

00:37:19 ◼   ► I said 2017 iPad Pro.

00:37:21 ◼   ► That is correct.

00:37:22 ◼   ► Oh, my God.

00:37:24 ◼   ► Dude, unbelievably, this was the second generation.

00:37:28 ◼   ► Yes, yes.

00:37:29 ◼   ► They went so hard, so fast.

00:37:32 ◼   ► Yes.

00:37:33 ◼   ► Like, incredible.

00:37:33 ◼   ► So, my thinking, my thinking is that I was going to go with the first one.

00:37:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:40 ◼   ► But it seemed too far away in time.

00:37:43 ◼   ► Like, it's 10 years ago, right?

00:37:46 ◼   ► And I don't remember, I have this vague memory of this ad coming out, like, in the summer

00:37:51 ◼   ► or the beginning of the fall, not in the winter.

00:37:54 ◼   ► And the first iPad Pro came out in November, like, before the holiday season.

00:37:58 ◼   ► And it was not that time, I think.

00:38:01 ◼   ► Or maybe I was wrong and just a lucky guess.

00:38:03 ◼   ► This has leveled the game.

00:38:05 ◼   ► There are three questions left.

00:38:07 ◼   ► Question number eight.

00:38:09 ◼   ► Which year did the iPad Pro first gain Thunderbolt support?

00:38:15 ◼   ► I'll say, again, you can give me either model year or generation number.

00:38:20 ◼   ► I like that you think that anyone can keep the generations.

00:38:23 ◼   ► I'm going to be completely honest.

00:38:25 ◼   ► I thought you would know them.

00:38:27 ◼   ► Thunderbolt.

00:38:29 ◼   ► Thunderbolt, yeah.

00:38:30 ◼   ► Thunderbolt.

00:38:32 ◼   ► Again.

00:38:35 ◼   ► Thunderbolt.

00:38:36 ◼   ► Thunder.

00:38:37 ◼   ► Torn between two.

00:38:40 ◼   ► Both Thunder and Bolt.

00:38:42 ◼   ► Yeah, it was not that.

00:38:45 ◼   ► And again, Wikipedia.

00:38:47 ◼   ► So good.

00:38:48 ◼   ► So good for facts.

00:38:49 ◼   ► It's not that.

00:38:52 ◼   ► I'm going to guess the generation.

00:38:54 ◼   ► And if I get it, do I get bonus points?

00:38:56 ◼   ► No.

00:38:57 ◼   ► Do you give me one of two?

00:39:00 ◼   ► It's the answer.

00:39:01 ◼   ► Why would you get bonus points for the answer?

00:39:03 ◼   ► I'm just flexing.

00:39:03 ◼   ► I'm just flexing that generation is right.

00:39:05 ◼   ► I tell you what.

00:39:07 ◼   ► If you guess it correctly, I'll give you a thousand bonus points.

00:39:11 ◼   ► Okay.

00:39:11 ◼   ► I mean, I've already seen your answer, which is the, so if you, Stephen, if you're right,

00:39:18 ◼   ► you get a thousand bonus points.

00:39:19 ◼   ► This is how I won the podcast-a-thon.

00:39:21 ◼   ► This is my answer.

00:39:23 ◼   ► That is true.

00:39:23 ◼   ► Okay.

00:39:26 ◼   ► Okay.

00:39:26 ◼   ► Stephen.

00:39:30 ◼   ► Yes.

00:39:31 ◼   ► Would you like to give me your answer, please?

00:39:33 ◼   ► I said the third generation.

00:39:34 ◼   ► What?

00:39:36 ◼   ► Okay.

00:39:36 ◼   ► That is incorrect.

00:39:37 ◼   ► Federico?

00:39:40 ◼   ► I said M1 iPad Pro.

00:39:41 ◼   ► That is correct.

00:39:44 ◼   ► But that's not the question.

00:39:45 ◼   ► I know.

00:39:46 ◼   ► That's the problem.

00:39:47 ◼   ► I needed year or generation.

00:39:49 ◼   ► I need year or generation.

00:39:50 ◼   ► Isn't M1 a generation?

00:39:52 ◼   ► No, it's a chip number.

00:39:53 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:39:55 ◼   ► 2021?

00:39:58 ◼   ► That is correct.

00:40:00 ◼   ► I'm going to give you the point.

00:40:02 ◼   ► I mean, it's like there's only one M1 iPad Pro.

00:40:06 ◼   ► I know.

00:40:07 ◼   ► For future questions, the Linux 2, I don't want chip names.

00:40:10 ◼   ► I need either, like, this is fifth generation or this is the year.

00:40:13 ◼   ► What does it matter?

00:40:14 ◼   ► You should be more flexible.

00:40:16 ◼   ► That's a great point.

00:40:17 ◼   ► From now on, you can also give me the chip name because it's also not the answer for any more questions.

00:40:24 ◼   ► It is fixed in time.

00:40:27 ◼   ► Yeah, I know, Kate, that I'm supposed to answer in the form required, but what if the form required is wrong?

00:40:31 ◼   ► Great point.

00:40:33 ◼   ► Question number nine.

00:40:34 ◼   ► Federico, I'm being kind to you today.

00:40:36 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:40:36 ◼   ► Don't push me.

00:40:37 ◼   ► Hang on.

00:40:37 ◼   ► Hang on.

00:40:38 ◼   ► Hang on.

00:40:38 ◼   ► Hang on.

00:40:39 ◼   ► Hang on.

00:40:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:40 ◼   ► Hang on.

00:40:40 ◼   ► How are you counting iPad generations?

00:40:45 ◼   ► Because don't, didn't they do the thing for a while where the generation was different based on the size?

00:40:50 ◼   ► I can't answer that question.

00:40:52 ◼   ► Wikipedia is how I count them.

00:40:54 ◼   ► So, like, there was the 10.5 and the 12.9.

00:40:59 ◼   ► Whatever it is, Dylan, I can tell you that this was not the third generation iPad Pro.

00:41:02 ◼   ► Yeah, it was not the third.

00:41:03 ◼   ► That's what you're looking for.

00:41:04 ◼   ► Like, no matter how this is counted, that was not the third generation.

00:41:07 ◼   ► But wasn't the, okay.

00:41:10 ◼   ► Okay.

00:41:10 ◼   ► You know?

00:41:12 ◼   ► I'll just let the people speak, speak up if I've been robbed.

00:41:15 ◼   ► Okay.

00:41:16 ◼   ► So, no, no, no.

00:41:17 ◼   ► Let's, let's, let's dig into this then.

00:41:18 ◼   ► What are you asking me?

00:41:20 ◼   ► So, for a while, the generations were offset from each other because, I think, because the 10.5 inch was a one and done, but the 12.9 already existed.

00:41:32 ◼   ► So, for a while, wasn't it like 11 inch, second generation, 12.9 inch, third generation at the same time?

00:41:40 ◼   ► Even then, even then, Stephen, your third 12.9 iPad Pro would be the 2021, not the 2021.

00:41:47 ◼   ► Okay.

00:41:49 ◼   ► Yeah, I see what you're saying.

00:41:50 ◼   ► It wasn't, it wasn't that.

00:41:52 ◼   ► Okay.

00:41:52 ◼   ► So, the second generation iPad Pro, at least by Wikipedia, includes the 12.9 and 10.5.

00:41:58 ◼   ► The first generation is the 12.9 and 9.7.

00:42:01 ◼   ► Uh, Zoe says that you're wrong.

00:42:04 ◼   ► Well, Zoe is arguing with Wikipedia?

00:42:08 ◼   ► I don't care.

00:42:08 ◼   ► It was the third generation 11 inch.

00:42:11 ◼   ► What was the third generation?

00:42:13 ◼   ► I mean, that is, that is a bit of, that is, there is more of a stretch to say that it was the third generation 11 inch model to get Thunderbolt.

00:42:21 ◼   ► I'm just Googling third generation 11 inch tech specs.

00:42:22 ◼   ► Than to say it was the, it was the M1 iPad Pro.

00:42:25 ◼   ► The M1 iPad Pro is a moment fixed in time that everybody can agree about.

00:42:29 ◼   ► Dude, iPad Pro 11 inch third generation was the M1.

00:42:32 ◼   ► Wow, that is, okay.

00:42:34 ◼   ► I will settle for half points.

00:42:36 ◼   ► There are no half points.

00:42:38 ◼   ► No, that's not up to you to decide.

00:42:40 ◼   ► Call, call up Jason.

00:42:42 ◼   ► Call Jason.

00:42:43 ◼   ► All right.

00:42:43 ◼   ► iPad Pro third generation.

00:42:45 ◼   ► Why are we calling Jason?

00:42:47 ◼   ► Jason's got nothing to do with this.

00:42:48 ◼   ► Well, he's going to do it.

00:42:49 ◼   ► What is Jason going to do for anybody?

00:42:51 ◼   ► Adjudicate.

00:42:52 ◼   ► The 11 inch model, the third generation features, I'm, I'm looking it up now.

00:42:58 ◼   ► So the, the Wikipedia page for the third generation iPad Pro has no mention of Thunderbolt.

00:43:04 ◼   ► What am I supposed to do with this information?

00:43:06 ◼   ► Here, but I'm going to send you this.

00:43:07 ◼   ► Okay, Zoe did it.

00:43:08 ◼   ► Apple support.

00:43:10 ◼   ► iPad Pro 11 inch third generation is the M1.

00:43:13 ◼   ► Steven is saying that technically speaking, a third generation iPad Pro that received Thunderbolt

00:43:20 ◼   ► was the 11 inch model because up to that point, they had only made the three generations of

00:43:25 ◼   ► the 11 inch model.

00:43:26 ◼   ► So I'm not, but my argument would be, which is the argument that we would all agree with

00:43:30 ◼   ► that the iPad Pro is defined by the 12.9.

00:43:34 ◼   ► No.

00:43:34 ◼   ► In any logical scenario, that is the way we would make that argument, which is exactly the way

00:43:40 ◼   ► that the Wikipedia editors do too.

00:43:41 ◼   ► Look, I fell into this half answer.

00:43:43 ◼   ► Okay.

00:43:43 ◼   ► Okay.

00:43:44 ◼   ► Congratulations to you.

00:43:46 ◼   ► And I think I deserve some credit for being lucky.

00:43:48 ◼   ► Were you honestly thinking that?

00:43:50 ◼   ► Because you know you're wrong.

00:43:51 ◼   ► You're just, you're just fighting it.

00:43:53 ◼   ► But like, you know that the spirit of the question is not the answer in which you gave.

00:43:57 ◼   ► Okay.

00:43:57 ◼   ► Because you did not think that the 11 inch third generation iPad Pro is the one you're

00:44:02 ◼   ► talking about.

00:44:03 ◼   ► Okay.

00:44:04 ◼   ► Did you?

00:44:04 ◼   ► You know what?

00:44:05 ◼   ► I will go with wherever you want to go.

00:44:07 ◼   ► But if you think I'm wrong, tell Mike on social media.

00:44:10 ◼   ► Hashtag justice for Steven.

00:44:14 ◼   ► He's not going to care.

00:44:15 ◼   ► Yeah, you can give me justice for Steven.

00:44:17 ◼   ► Justice for Steven.

00:44:18 ◼   ► You know what, Steven?

00:44:19 ◼   ► You'll get five points.

00:44:20 ◼   ► How about that?

00:44:21 ◼   ► Okay.

00:44:21 ◼   ► I will settle for half the points that are available.

00:44:23 ◼   ► Well, I'm giving you a quarter of the points that are available.

00:44:25 ◼   ► I will settle for half.

00:44:27 ◼   ► That's good for you.

00:44:28 ◼   ► You've got five.

00:44:29 ◼   ► Can I have seven?

00:44:29 ◼   ► Question number nine.

00:44:31 ◼   ► What is the starting price in American dollars of the original 12.9 inch iPad Pro at launch

00:44:38 ◼   ► in 2015?

00:44:39 ◼   ► Jeez.

00:44:40 ◼   ► No idea.

00:44:42 ◼   ► I would also just like to point out for all of the people currently telling me that Steven

00:44:46 ◼   ► is robbed.

00:44:47 ◼   ► Justice for Steven.

00:44:48 ◼   ► Steven has 420 points.

00:44:51 ◼   ► All right.

00:44:52 ◼   ► Let's just chill out a little bit here.

00:44:54 ◼   ► How many does Federico have?

00:44:55 ◼   ► He's doing fine.

00:44:57 ◼   ► 115.

00:44:58 ◼   ► This is not including today's totals yet.

00:45:00 ◼   ► Okay.

00:45:01 ◼   ► Oh, you have an answer for me.

00:45:03 ◼   ► That is the hardest question you've asked, I think.

00:45:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:09 ◼   ► Man, do you remember how huge that iPad was, y'all?

00:45:13 ◼   ► Like, do you remember how big it was?

00:45:15 ◼   ► It was a big boy.

00:45:18 ◼   ► And we recorded an episode.

00:45:19 ◼   ► I remember this distinctly.

00:45:21 ◼   ► To clear the embargo.

00:45:22 ◼   ► It was like seven o'clock in the morning for me on a weekend.

00:45:25 ◼   ► I'm just thinking that it.

00:45:30 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe.

00:45:31 ◼   ► I'm just thinking that you that Steven has sent the answer, right?

00:45:35 ◼   ► I mean, I said something.

00:45:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:37 ◼   ► He sent an answer.

00:45:38 ◼   ► I just think it was not below a thousand dollars.

00:45:45 ◼   ► Or was it a thousand dollars?

00:45:47 ◼   ► Surely it was the most expensive iPad at that point, right?

00:45:50 ◼   ► Okay.

00:45:51 ◼   ► I sent my answer.

00:45:52 ◼   ► I don't feel good about it, but.

00:45:54 ◼   ► I don't either.

00:45:56 ◼   ► Okay.

00:45:58 ◼   ► Federico, what was your answer?

00:45:59 ◼   ► $12.99.

00:46:00 ◼   ► Steven, what was your answer?

00:46:02 ◼   ► Before I say my answer.

00:46:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:04 ◼   ► Can we do closest wins?

00:46:06 ◼   ► No.

00:46:07 ◼   ► I said $9.99.

00:46:08 ◼   ► Okay.

00:46:10 ◼   ► $799.

00:46:12 ◼   ► Whoa.

00:46:13 ◼   ► What?

00:46:13 ◼   ► What?

00:46:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:14 ◼   ► Because even if we did closest wins, it'd be closest wins without going over.

00:46:18 ◼   ► That's like the typical price is right rules, and you both went over.

00:46:20 ◼   ► $1.

00:46:20 ◼   ► That's way cheaper than I thought it was.

00:46:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:24 ◼   ► Huh.

00:46:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:26 ◼   ► This is why I wanted to include this question.

00:46:29 ◼   ► I cannot believe it was $799, the original iPad Pro.

00:46:31 ◼   ► Isn't that what the iPhone starts at now?

00:46:33 ◼   ► Like the iPhone 17?

00:46:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:35 ◼   ► Woof.

00:46:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:37 ◼   ► Times have changed.

00:46:39 ◼   ► I mean, 10 years.

00:46:40 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:46:40 ◼   ► A lot of inflation, I guess.

00:46:41 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:46:42 ◼   ► Also, I imagine they were just, they were really underpricing that thing, like at that point,

00:46:46 ◼   ► because they weren't sure about it.

00:46:47 ◼   ► I mean, that was the whole move with the first one, right?

00:46:49 ◼   ► It was so much cheaper than people thought it would be.

00:46:51 ◼   ► And I would imagine that the iPad was probably still like $400 or $500 at that point.

00:46:57 ◼   ► So like going straight to $1,000 might have been a bit much.

00:47:00 ◼   ► All right.

00:47:02 ◼   ► Your final question for today.

00:47:03 ◼   ► Your points.

00:47:04 ◼   ► So you both got zero there.

00:47:07 ◼   ► Your points are currently standing at, Stephen has 105 points.

00:47:10 ◼   ► Federico has 120 points.

00:47:15 ◼   ► Okay.

00:47:15 ◼   ► Because I was robbed.

00:47:16 ◼   ► Question 10.

00:47:18 ◼   ► The final question.

00:47:20 ◼   ► You know what, Rob?

00:47:20 ◼   ► You got five points.

00:47:21 ◼   ► You did better than the Louvre.

00:47:23 ◼   ► Which year or model generation was the first iPad to support Apple Pencil Hover?

00:47:31 ◼   ► I will also take the name of the chip.

00:47:33 ◼   ► All right.

00:47:34 ◼   ► This is what we've learned for today.

00:47:36 ◼   ► Yep.

00:47:37 ◼   ► Apple Pencil Hover.

00:47:39 ◼   ► What was the first iPad to have Apple Pencil Hover?

00:47:42 ◼   ► Boy.

00:47:43 ◼   ► Year or chip.

00:47:45 ◼   ► Federico, for a tip of the hat, do you want to guess the generation as well?

00:47:49 ◼   ► Get out.

00:47:51 ◼   ► She gave me a lot of information in this text message.

00:47:53 ◼   ► Did I say he would get points?

00:47:57 ◼   ► I said a tip of the hat.

00:47:58 ◼   ► It would just be like a little nod of acknowledgement from me.

00:48:00 ◼   ► If we get both the year and the chip, do we get bonus points?

00:48:04 ◼   ► No, there are no bonus points.

00:48:06 ◼   ► There are no bonus points except the five you got.

00:48:08 ◼   ► Okay.

00:48:09 ◼   ► Then I'm going to take the chip off.

00:48:11 ◼   ► I'm going to say the year.

00:48:13 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:48:13 ◼   ► You could give me, if you just give me one of, if one of the pieces of information you

00:48:17 ◼   ► give me is correct, I will give you the answer.

00:48:19 ◼   ► Okay.

00:48:19 ◼   ► Then I'm going to say both in my official answer.

00:48:22 ◼   ► Stephen, what is your answer?

00:48:24 ◼   ► I said the 2022 with the M2.

00:48:28 ◼   ► Federico, what is your answer?

00:48:30 ◼   ► Same.

00:48:30 ◼   ► Same.

00:48:31 ◼   ► Yep.

00:48:31 ◼   ► It is the 2022 sixth generation iPad Pro.

00:48:35 ◼   ► So you both get 20 points.

00:48:36 ◼   ► That was out today's game at 140 points for Federico and 125 for Stephen.

00:48:44 ◼   ► Federico, you're beginning the march back towards the lead here.

00:48:47 ◼   ► We have a total for 2025 now standing at 355 points for Federico and 545 points for Stephen.

00:48:56 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:48:58 ◼   ► I'll chip away at it.

00:48:59 ◼   ► Zoe, she went 10 for 10 in the discord.

00:49:02 ◼   ► So Zoe's the real winner.

00:49:04 ◼   ► Zoe gets all of Stephen's stolen points.

00:49:06 ◼   ► No.

00:49:07 ◼   ► So that's 15 points for Zoe.

00:49:11 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by Ecamm.

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00:51:04 ◼   ► Federico, since we last recorded, you have published your M5 iPad Pro review.

00:51:10 ◼   ► Loved it.

00:51:11 ◼   ► Super great.

00:51:12 ◼   ► Very detailed.

00:51:13 ◼   ► And some specific things we want to talk about.

00:51:15 ◼   ► But how is it?

00:51:20 ◼   ► Because a lot of people seem a little underwhelmed.

00:51:22 ◼   ► How is it?

00:51:24 ◼   ► How is the iPad?

00:51:27 ◼   ► I mean, it's fine.

00:51:35 ◼   ► It's a spec bump and that we knew going into this.

00:51:39 ◼   ► There are a couple of nice things like fast charging and 4K at 120Hz for external monitors

00:51:47 ◼   ► with adaptive sync.

00:51:48 ◼   ► That is nice.

00:51:49 ◼   ► Otherwise, you're just getting the M5.

00:51:51 ◼   ► And sort of my focus for this review, obviously, I mentioned those nice quality of life improvements

00:51:57 ◼   ► at the end.

00:51:57 ◼   ► But really, my focus was to try and verify Apple's own claim from their newsroom post and also from

00:52:05 ◼   ► separate materials that they send to the press under embargo of this 3.5x improvement for

00:52:11 ◼   ► local AI tasks.

00:52:12 ◼   ► And since I have been playing around with local large language models on my Mac, I figured,

00:52:18 ◼   ► hey, that's interesting.

00:52:19 ◼   ► That's potentially something that I can test.

00:52:21 ◼   ► Alongside gaming.

00:52:22 ◼   ► So I approached this iPad with two separate sort of angles.

00:52:30 ◼   ► One for gaming, and I got some help from OTJ to install this gaming overlay on the iPad called

00:52:39 ◼   ► the Metal HUD.

00:52:40 ◼   ► It's a performance overlay that shows you stats for games that are running on the Metal backend.

00:52:46 ◼   ► And I lost my mind trying to verify Apple's claim of 3.5x improvement on local AI tasks, which

00:52:57 ◼   ► turned out to be a very complicated story that I still have not been able to figure out myself.

00:53:02 ◼   ► In fact, I also had a review unit of the M5 MacBook Pro, but I did not post anything because I could

00:53:09 ◼   ► not get it to work on the M5 MacBook Pro either.

00:53:12 ◼   ► So overall, I would say if you have an M4 iPad Pro, you don't have to upgrade.

00:53:19 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:53:20 ◼   ► I would upgrade if you're coming from, unless you're like the world's biggest fan of fast

00:53:26 ◼   ► charging and external displays with high refresh rates.

00:53:31 ◼   ► Or like if there's like a very niche or a very particular application that you use for production

00:53:41 ◼   ► work on a daily basis and you know it's going to be like three times faster because you use

00:53:47 ◼   ► that specific application every day, then sure, I understand.

00:53:51 ◼   ► But otherwise, you're fine with your M4 iPad Pro.

00:53:54 ◼   ► I would only advise M1 and maybe M2 iPad Pro owners to upgrade because you are getting

00:53:59 ◼   ► a really nice performance bump coming from those to the M5.

00:54:04 ◼   ► Yeah, I think the AI stuff is particularly interesting.

00:54:09 ◼   ► We spoke about this last week as like a secret preview to your review that Apple's framework

00:54:16 ◼   ► and stuff aren't ready.

00:54:17 ◼   ► But on the other hand, very few people are doing this stuff on device anyway, right?

00:54:22 ◼   ► Like the average consumer who is using these tools, they're doing it in a web browser and

00:54:27 ◼   ► it doesn't matter if you're on a Chromebook or an M5 iPad, right?

00:54:31 ◼   ► Because it's just a web page and all that compute is happening elsewhere.

00:54:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:36 ◼   ► Do you think that Apple is working on these technologies?

00:54:41 ◼   ► Because this generation does mark a shift, right?

00:54:44 ◼   ► With the neural stuff embedded in the GPUs.

00:54:47 ◼   ► Is this just something that they're building for the future, even just for themselves, like

00:54:52 ◼   ► Apple Foundation models or?

00:54:53 ◼   ► Yes.

00:54:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:55 ◼   ► I do agree.

00:54:55 ◼   ► They're doing the right thing.

00:54:56 ◼   ► And I do.

00:54:57 ◼   ► I do.

00:54:58 ◼   ► Let me make this even more clear than maybe was in my story.

00:55:04 ◼   ► I do think those performance improvements are absolutely real.

00:55:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:10 ◼   ► It's just that the timing with this iPad Pro embargo was not the best one if you also want

00:55:17 ◼   ► to, not to necessarily take Apple at their word, but just if you wanted to independently verify

00:55:23 ◼   ► those numbers.

00:55:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:24 ◼   ► I just think the timing of it was not super great because they, they, it all, and we can

00:55:32 ◼   ► get into the technicality of it, but it was like, it was not easy for me to test their claims

00:55:36 ◼   ► in practice.

00:55:36 ◼   ► But I think, to answer your question, Stephen, that they are primarily doing this for themselves.

00:55:43 ◼   ► They are setting themselves up for future success.

00:55:45 ◼   ► I do believe in a future where, and I mean, you look at the trend lines in the AI industry,

00:55:50 ◼   ► very clearly, we are seeing that open source models that can run on device, offline, on

00:55:56 ◼   ► consumer hardware, are their development and their performance is accelerating and accelerating

00:56:02 ◼   ► quickly.

00:56:03 ◼   ► The fact that we went from, from, you know, just look, take a look at last year, a couple

00:56:08 ◼   ► of years ago, where these open source models were really lagging behind the latest frontier

00:56:12 ◼   ► ones hosted by, you know, OpenAI or Anthropic or Google in their cloud services, to right now

00:56:19 ◼   ► where you can get some models from China.

00:56:21 ◼   ► There are like three, four months behind the latest cloud model.

00:56:24 ◼   ► Or in the case of DeepSeq, you take a look at the latest, came out last week, DeepSeq OCR

00:56:29 ◼   ► that has become already like a new industry standard for on-device, private, offline, AI-based

00:56:37 ◼   ► OCR.

00:56:38 ◼   ► Like, it's incredible the development that is occurring in that space.

00:56:42 ◼   ► And you've got to believe that Apple would like to see a future where they have a better

00:56:46 ◼   ► foundation model.

00:56:47 ◼   ► And they can say, we can do all these things with AI on-device, thanks to the power of Apple

00:56:52 ◼   ► Silicon.

00:56:52 ◼   ► On-device just falls right into their hands, their playbook, right?

00:56:57 ◼   ► That kind of thing, you know?

00:56:58 ◼   ► It's a happy accident for them, I guess.

00:57:01 ◼   ► And it's no, it's no, like, I don't think it's a, they realized maybe a couple of years

00:57:07 ◼   ► ago and that, you know, with their unified memory architecture that they have, they can also

00:57:12 ◼   ► push that front of performance.

00:57:14 ◼   ► And so that's why we're seeing the neural accelerators first in the CPU, then in the

00:57:18 ◼   ► GPU.

00:57:19 ◼   ► So they're taking advantage of that.

00:57:21 ◼   ► It's maybe a late realization, but they're doing that regardless.

00:57:24 ◼   ► And I think they're doing the right thing.

00:57:25 ◼   ► It's just that for this iPad Pro specifically, it was nearly impossible to test.

00:57:32 ◼   ► Like, if you imagine the Venn diagram, right?

00:57:34 ◼   ► Of like, people who are into AI, okay, first group.

00:57:37 ◼   ► People who are into local AI, much smaller group.

00:57:40 ◼   ► People who are into local AI on an iPad Pro.

00:57:44 ◼   ► Four people.

00:57:45 ◼   ► That is like, really, it's a very niche thing, but it was also something that they wrote in

00:57:54 ◼   ► their press announcement, you know, which is why I quoted like that part in my conclusion.

00:58:01 ◼   ► This is what they are saying.

00:58:03 ◼   ► They are selling this product with those claims.

00:58:05 ◼   ► So why not try to independently verify them?

00:58:08 ◼   ► And that's what I tried to do.

00:58:12 ◼   ► So I have a theory, like a question, and I'm not saying this is happening.

00:58:17 ◼   ► And I also don't care if this is the case.

00:58:19 ◼   ► I wonder if anybody ever actually benchmarked the iPad to do this, or if it's just they know

00:58:26 ◼   ► the chip can do this.

00:58:27 ◼   ► So like...

00:58:28 ◼   ► I think that I can tell you that they benchmarked this.

00:58:32 ◼   ► Okay.

00:58:32 ◼   ► You're confident they did?

00:58:33 ◼   ► Okay.

00:58:34 ◼   ► Yes.

00:58:34 ◼   ► The reason I asked that question was just because like, obviously, you can do it on the Mac,

00:58:38 ◼   ► right?

00:58:38 ◼   ► Like, they have tools to do it on the Mac, right?

00:58:41 ◼   ► Like, the MLX tools that you have, apparently, is this GitHub project out, da-da-da-da-da.

00:58:46 ◼   ► But I was just wondering if like, they just didn't do it on the iPad because they don't

00:58:50 ◼   ► have it running on the iPad, but they don't need to because they know the chip can support

00:58:54 ◼   ► it.

00:58:54 ◼   ► So they, in theory, could just say it.

00:58:57 ◼   ► My very good guess, here's how I would put it, is that my very good guess is that they

00:59:04 ◼   ► have an internal testing app for iPad that lets them do this stuff.

00:59:07 ◼   ► Okay.

00:59:07 ◼   ► Similar to what I built, basically, for this review.

00:59:11 ◼   ► As I say this out loud, I realize how boneheaded it would be if they didn't actually have tested

00:59:17 ◼   ► it to say it, considering everything that has happened to them in AI over the last couple

00:59:20 ◼   ► of years.

00:59:21 ◼   ► I feel like, as I am now saying this aloud, I would like to believe that they're smarter

00:59:26 ◼   ► than just make the assumption and be fine with it.

00:59:28 ◼   ► No, they absolutely have that.

00:59:30 ◼   ► Also, because you cannot use the M5, you know, yeah, they have that on the iPad.

00:59:38 ◼   ► But it's not a public thing.

00:59:41 ◼   ► It's not something that, first of all, it's not something that was provided to journalists

00:59:45 ◼   ► to test.

00:59:46 ◼   ► And it's not a, obviously, they don't have a consumer application to do that.

00:59:52 ◼   ► They don't have a developer application for iPad to do that.

00:59:55 ◼   ► They don't have a tool, I don't know, in Swift's Playgrounds or something to get that up and

01:00:01 ◼   ► running.

01:00:01 ◼   ► It's just, I believe, an internal tool that they have.

01:00:04 ◼   ► I would have liked to have something like that.

01:00:08 ◼   ► Instead of just saying, Apple is saying that you're going to see 3.5x.

01:00:12 ◼   ► Okay, what does that mean?

01:00:13 ◼   ► Like, that was my approach.

01:00:14 ◼   ► What does that mean?

01:00:15 ◼   ► Nobody takes that for any other type of benchmarking.

01:00:19 ◼   ► Every other statistic that Apple gives, people try to benchmark it, right?

01:00:24 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:00:24 ◼   ► Because also, you know, look behind the curtain here.

01:00:28 ◼   ► What on earth else is there to write about?

01:00:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:31 ◼   ► Right, with this product.

01:00:32 ◼   ► Like, we've already been through it.

01:00:33 ◼   ► Like, there are a couple of changes, but it's really, the things Apple spoke about in their

01:00:38 ◼   ► press release was this and gaming improvements.

01:00:41 ◼   ► These were the things that they spoke about.

01:00:43 ◼   ► They are realistically the only changes that a user would see.

01:00:47 ◼   ► And so, you can do, like, and Jason's done this in the past, where he basically just will

01:00:54 ◼   ► block quote the previous review.

01:00:55 ◼   ► Because the thing is, this iPad is unbelievably good.

01:01:00 ◼   ► Because the M4 was unbelievably good.

01:01:03 ◼   ► Like, it is such an incredible machine that is so well-powered and is so fantastic to use,

01:01:10 ◼   ► just because of, like, its form factor and everything.

01:01:12 ◼   ► The OLED screen is, like, the best screen I own, of any screen I own.

01:01:17 ◼   ► Like, it's just a brilliant iPad.

01:01:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:19 ◼   ► But there isn't much more.

01:01:20 ◼   ► So, it's like, well, you talk about AI and gaming, and it turns out it's not really great

01:01:25 ◼   ► to talk about AI and gaming on this iPad.

01:01:29 ◼   ► It's funny, it's like a 2025 version of the iPadOS is not ready for the hardware.

01:01:35 ◼   ► Like, they got that fixed, right?

01:01:36 ◼   ► There's window management and background tasks and all this stuff.

01:01:39 ◼   ► But now, in a funny, very modern way, the hardware has outpaced the software again.

01:01:44 ◼   ► There is absolutely a parallel there, when you consider how, I mean, we spoke about this

01:01:49 ◼   ► during the quizzes, like, when they were saying, oh, this is for Windows switchers, this is a

01:01:54 ◼   ► computer, this is a laptop, but they were missing some of the very basics, like window

01:01:58 ◼   ► management and file management.

01:01:59 ◼   ► And now they're saying, oh, this is for local AI, but they are missing, like, so many parts

01:02:05 ◼   ► of what is necessary to test local AI, even for enthusiasts who know what they're doing,

01:02:12 ◼   ► right, with these things, where downloading models from the internet and installing them

01:02:16 ◼   ► and running them and prompting them and setting them up.

01:02:19 ◼   ► But they are missing so much, even for those very few people who are going to do this, that

01:02:25 ◼   ► it, you know, it was basically an impossible task for me to try and achieve for this review.

01:02:33 ◼   ► I tried anyway.

01:02:34 ◼   ► I don't know how interesting it was that I did, but I mostly did it for me, as usual with these

01:02:38 ◼   ► things.

01:02:39 ◼   ► Like, and because I don't, I don't like to just accept blindly whatever number is thrown at me.

01:02:44 ◼   ► And so I mostly did it because I was curious, and then I basically wrote up my notes and

01:02:49 ◼   ► my thoughts, and I have opinions.

01:02:50 ◼   ► And, you know, if people don't like it, whatever, I did it for me.

01:02:54 ◼   ► And ultimately, that's my philosophy for Mac Stories.

01:02:57 ◼   ► But yeah.

01:02:57 ◼   ► I figure there have never been more numbers on a Mac Stories post than there was on this

01:03:02 ◼   ► one.

01:03:02 ◼   ► Like, I read this post, and you know I love you, and I love your writing.

01:03:06 ◼   ► I glazed over it at certain points.

01:03:08 ◼   ► This is like, I don't understand what these terms mean.

01:03:12 ◼   ► Like, I don't know what a quen is, but it seems important.

01:03:15 ◼   ► You know, these kinds of things.

01:03:18 ◼   ► But I could follow along with what you were saying, which I think is a testament to your

01:03:23 ◼   ► writing, even though I didn't understand the terms.

01:03:25 ◼   ► Oh, thank you.

01:03:27 ◼   ► Yes, quen is the model.

01:03:28 ◼   ► Quen is the family of open source models from Alibaba.

01:03:32 ◼   ► From Alibaba?

01:03:34 ◼   ► I prefer Timu AI models.

01:03:38 ◼   ► A little joke about.

01:03:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:42 ◼   ► No, no.

01:03:43 ◼   ► I got it.

01:03:44 ◼   ► I absolutely got it.

01:03:45 ◼   ► I absolutely got it.

01:03:46 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:03:47 ◼   ► It was really good.

01:03:47 ◼   ► I want to circle back to something you said a second ago, because it's also an issue on

01:03:51 ◼   ► the Mac of, if you have an M4, you don't need an M5, right?

01:03:55 ◼   ► And there was just so much chatter with the M5 that like, oh, this is, you know, it's a

01:04:03 ◼   ► boring incremental update.

01:04:06 ◼   ► And so I sort of rage blogged this post the other night.

01:04:09 ◼   ► It was like, it was in my mind.

01:04:11 ◼   ► I came upstairs after dinner and I wrote it.

01:04:13 ◼   ► That's fine.

01:04:15 ◼   ► That's what we wanted, right?

01:04:16 ◼   ► We want Apple Silicon to make reasonable annual progress.

01:04:23 ◼   ► And that's what they've shown.

01:04:25 ◼   ► And it's just, it's just so funny how quickly people forget that, right?

01:04:29 ◼   ► Like it was, it was very exciting in 2020.

01:04:31 ◼   ► It was a huge jump, right?

01:04:33 ◼   ► Those things only come along every so often, no matter what platform you're on.

01:04:37 ◼   ► And I think honestly, Apple's on an incredible run with Apple Silicon.

01:04:41 ◼   ► I mean, the graphics increase on this one is bananas.

01:04:45 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

01:04:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:46 ◼   ► So like there's still a huge increase.

01:04:48 ◼   ► It's massive.

01:04:48 ◼   ► It's like nearly 50%.

01:04:50 ◼   ► And, you know, they, Jason said this on, I think on Upgrade, they don't touch or really

01:04:56 ◼   ► meaningful update every part of the system on a chip every time, right?

01:05:00 ◼   ► So this time it's GPU and storage speed.

01:05:04 ◼   ► And other times it will be memory bandwidth or clock speed or the number of cores, right?

01:05:10 ◼   ► It's totally fine and acceptable that if you have an M4, you don't need an M5, right?

01:05:16 ◼   ► And they're sort of on the, the flip side of that was there's, there was consternation

01:05:23 ◼   ► about Apple comparing the M5 to Intel and M1 Macs and their press releases.

01:05:28 ◼   ► It's like, well, yeah, because that's who, that's who is buying a computer right now, right?

01:05:33 ◼   ► There are some people in our audience and on this show who upgrade computers way too often,

01:05:37 ◼   ► but most people go four or five, six, seven years.

01:05:40 ◼   ► And when you reach that far back, you have to talk to Intel and M1 customers, right?

01:05:47 ◼   ► It's not punching down to talk about Intel Macs or M1 Macs and iPads.

01:05:52 ◼   ► It's that's, you're getting into the reasonable upgrade cycle at that point.

01:05:56 ◼   ► And I just, I thought a lot of that kind of got, got out of hand, a little silly over the

01:06:01 ◼   ► last week.

01:06:01 ◼   ► And I mean, I think your review, Federico is a, is a great, uh, a great example of this,

01:06:07 ◼   ► right?

01:06:07 ◼   ► Like they are moving forward in certain directions this year and for people who don't need that

01:06:12 ◼   ► direction or it doesn't matter to their workflow, then like, yeah, sit out the M5.

01:06:17 ◼   ► It's no big deal.

01:06:18 ◼   ► You know, the M6, M7, M8 will follow and that'll be a great update to your M2, M3, M4.

01:06:24 ◼   ► Oh my gosh.

01:06:28 ◼   ► I can't wait for M8.

01:06:29 ◼   ► Oh my God.

01:06:30 ◼   ► I'm going to, I'm going to be so excited about that.

01:06:32 ◼   ► You what?

01:06:33 ◼   ► You what, mate?

01:06:34 ◼   ► Uh, it's very funny to think that next year they may be talking to me with a MacBook Air

01:06:40 ◼   ► update.

01:06:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:42 ◼   ► I'm still using the M2.

01:06:43 ◼   ► They're like, Oh, and I was actually talking to my wife about this last night because I text

01:06:49 ◼   ► Steven about this.

01:06:50 ◼   ► Uh, I picked up her MacBook Air.

01:06:52 ◼   ► She has an M1 MacBook Air.

01:06:53 ◼   ► I picked it up yesterday and it was hot.

01:06:55 ◼   ► It was sleeping.

01:06:56 ◼   ► Uh, so it's not great.

01:06:58 ◼   ► I don't know what's going on there.

01:06:59 ◼   ► It was up to something.

01:07:01 ◼   ► Uh, and so I was saying like, I was kind of, she, you know, she, she really likes the design

01:07:05 ◼   ► of the M1.

01:07:05 ◼   ► Uh, she could write for the verge.

01:07:07 ◼   ► She loves the teardrop shape.

01:07:08 ◼   ► Um, she doesn't want it to go away.

01:07:10 ◼   ► And I have been trying to tell her about how great the new ones are.

01:07:16 ◼   ► And I was just like, you know what?

01:07:17 ◼   ► I said, I have a 14 inch MacBook Pro at the studio that I forgot to trade in for anything

01:07:22 ◼   ► so far.

01:07:23 ◼   ► Do you want to try that?

01:07:24 ◼   ► And like I said, I know it's completely the opposite, but you may at least benefit from

01:07:28 ◼   ► the screen and all those kinds of things, but we'll see how that goes.

01:07:31 ◼   ► I think at some point we're going to have to, we have to move her forward.

01:07:34 ◼   ► But, uh, I did want to ask you a question about your article, Stephen, and it's, it's more

01:07:39 ◼   ► just like a thing that I think about sometimes, which is funny to me because you reference it

01:07:43 ◼   ► in here of like, um, Apple was stuck by Intel, right?

01:07:48 ◼   ► Like, and this was the thing I remember at the time, right?

01:07:50 ◼   ► People were really wanting Apple to get off Intel because Intel's delays would delay computers.

01:07:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:56 ◼   ► And I think about that when looking at this M5 line of like, well, where's the Pro Max?

01:08:03 ◼   ► Sure.

01:08:05 ◼   ► Like it's, this stuff happens.

01:08:07 ◼   ► Like, yeah, Intel was the reason, but like, I can't imagine that Apple's original plans

01:08:13 ◼   ► are always the way in which they fall when it comes to Apple Silicon.

01:08:16 ◼   ► Like sometimes feels like they're not on any kind of regular schedule, but they try to be,

01:08:23 ◼   ► you know, it's like this one came out 14 months instead of 12 months or like, oh, this time

01:08:28 ◼   ► around the max comes first.

01:08:30 ◼   ► And this time around the base one comes first.

01:08:32 ◼   ► And yeah.

01:08:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:34 ◼   ► I would say a couple of things there.

01:08:36 ◼   ► I got some, some feedback of like, no, like the Intel MacBook pro was updated every year

01:08:41 ◼   ► from like 2008 to 2018 or whatever.

01:08:43 ◼   ► Like, yes, that's true.

01:08:46 ◼   ► But if you dig into those updates, most of them were, or a lot of them were even more minor

01:08:52 ◼   ► than what M3 to M4, M4 to M5 is.

01:08:56 ◼   ► And famous, infamously, I would say, because it may honestly be the end of the company, Intel

01:09:02 ◼   ► really struggled to get their node size down and that held back products that Apple wanted

01:09:08 ◼   ► to build.

01:09:09 ◼   ► You layer on top of that, and this was sort of my bigger argument was the Tim Cook doctrine,

01:09:15 ◼   ► right?

01:09:15 ◼   ► That Apple should own and control its key technologies.

01:09:19 ◼   ► If you scroll back through the list of Intel Macs, you had a bunch of machines that had

01:09:24 ◼   ► REPs or massive, you know, widespread failures because of NVIDIA or Intel components, right?

01:09:32 ◼   ► Machines that sometimes just rain too hot, right?

01:09:34 ◼   ► Like I bought a 2017, so I had the 2015 Retina iMac and I was going to update it to 2017.

01:09:44 ◼   ► This was before the iMac Pro came out and the thing was so loud, I couldn't use it as a

01:09:48 ◼   ► podcaster because even basically idle, you could hear the fans.

01:09:52 ◼   ► And I returned it, I stuck with my 2015 and then eventually went to the iMac Pro when that

01:09:56 ◼   ► came out.

01:09:56 ◼   ► There were these issues with these machines and now they're not.

01:10:01 ◼   ► But in terms of your, you were sort of second part of your question, Apple hasn't really

01:10:07 ◼   ► nailed down a pattern when it comes to releasing Apple Silicon chips.

01:10:12 ◼   ► The M1, right?

01:10:14 ◼   ► The M1, there was the base one and then the Pro and the Max came later.

01:10:18 ◼   ► But with the M3, if I remember correctly, I think that was like the nighttime, whoo, scary

01:10:23 ◼   ► event.

01:10:24 ◼   ► All three were at the same time and now it's just the base one again.

01:10:27 ◼   ► But the base one is in the iPad, the MacBook Pro and the iPad.

01:10:33 ◼   ► The MacBook Air is, tends to be behind.

01:10:37 ◼   ► It's just, there's not a clear pattern yet.

01:10:39 ◼   ► They don't have the thing with the Ultra chips, right?

01:10:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:42 ◼   ► Two.

01:10:42 ◼   ► There's no Ultra, there's no Ultra 4, right?

01:10:45 ◼   ► It's, it's the, the Max.

01:10:47 ◼   ► And they released the Ultra 3 when we were expecting the Ultra 4.

01:10:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:51 ◼   ► So I don't think any of that is as serious as the roadblocks that Intel was hitting.

01:10:58 ◼   ► Now, that doesn't mean it won't always be the case, right?

01:11:01 ◼   ► Will, as these things get smaller, will Apple and TSMC struggle the way Intel once did?

01:11:07 ◼   ► Time will tell.

01:11:08 ◼   ► I don't think so.

01:11:09 ◼   ► TSMC is the best at the world in this sort of thing.

01:11:12 ◼   ► But to date, I don't think Apple has hit those issues.

01:11:17 ◼   ► Now, if you've been waiting, you know, say that you were waiting for the M5 Max, like,

01:11:22 ◼   ► yeah, that's, that's a bummer that it's not here yet, but it will be at some point.

01:11:27 ◼   ► And I think that's, I think that's okay.

01:11:28 ◼   ► Anyway, iPads.

01:11:31 ◼   ► iPads, man.

01:11:32 ◼   ► They exist.

01:11:33 ◼   ► Pretty good.

01:11:34 ◼   ► iPads run iOS.

01:11:36 ◼   ► Well, they run a version of iOS.

01:11:38 ◼   ► They run iPadOS.

01:11:39 ◼   ► But iOS 26.1 Beta 4 is out.

01:11:41 ◼   ► And they did the thing.

01:11:42 ◼   ► There is a new toggle in display settings to allow a user to choose a look for tinted glass.

01:11:47 ◼   ► You can either keep the clear look or a tinted look that I would say downplays,

01:11:52 ◼   ► but does not remove the transparency level of the system UI.

01:11:56 ◼   ► I mean, I haven't, I haven't installed it.

01:11:57 ◼   ► Maybe if either of you have, you can tell me if I'm right or wrong on that.

01:12:00 ◼   ► But the images that I've seen, you can still see through the UI, but it's not crystal clear.

01:12:06 ◼   ► Yeah, it's just an opacity change.

01:12:08 ◼   ► It's not a return to the iOS 18 material.

01:12:11 ◼   ► I'm going to read this quote from Julie Clover's article on MacRumors.

01:12:15 ◼   ► Apple says that the new toggle was added because during the beta testing period over the summer,

01:12:20 ◼   ► user feedback suggested that some people would prefer to have a more opaque option for liquid glass.

01:12:26 ◼   ► This is not credited anywhere.

01:12:28 ◼   ► I don't know who Apple said this to.

01:12:30 ◼   ► I don't know if Apple said this to Julie or whoever, but I'm just going to take that as read,

01:12:34 ◼   ► that it was said to someone at some point.

01:12:36 ◼   ► Sure.

01:12:37 ◼   ► This is interesting that they've done it.

01:12:40 ◼   ► It really reminds me of back on episode 560 of this show.

01:12:44 ◼   ► We had a really good conversation about liquid glass.

01:12:47 ◼   ► This is in July.

01:12:48 ◼   ► And we were talking and I kind of referenced an idea of something that I just thought of.

01:12:54 ◼   ► It's just like, why don't you just get rid of the glass and call it liquid UI?

01:12:57 ◼   ► Where essentially keep the look, the feel, the animations,

01:13:01 ◼   ► but don't kind of force yourself into a corner with the transparency thing.

01:13:05 ◼   ► I'll put a link in the show notes also to underscore David Smith's podcast search.

01:13:09 ◼   ► If you want to go on back and listen to that conversation,

01:13:11 ◼   ► I think that we were very prescient when we were talking about that stuff

01:13:14 ◼   ► because this seems to be the route that they've taken,

01:13:16 ◼   ► which is probably, I think, the best route they could take,

01:13:20 ◼   ► which is you've kept, I think, a lot of the good about liquid glass

01:13:24 ◼   ► and given people the opportunity to change the look of it

01:13:30 ◼   ► if they really feel like they need to.

01:13:32 ◼   ► Yeah, you keep the sort of foundation structure of the compact elements,

01:13:39 ◼   ► the morphing elements, the liquid animations.

01:13:41 ◼   ► You just change the material.

01:13:42 ◼   ► The tab bar, the kind of search fields, all of that stuff is really good

01:13:46 ◼   ► and I think is like a good functional change to a lot of,

01:13:50 ◼   ► well, it's good when developers use it, right?

01:13:53 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I could honestly see a whole family of liquid interfaces

01:13:58 ◼   ► with different materials, whatever you want to call them.

01:14:01 ◼   ► You can go a little more photorealistic, you can go more abstract,

01:14:05 ◼   ► but I do think they're going to, you know,

01:14:07 ◼   ► this focus on small compact UI elements that morph on screen.

01:14:12 ◼   ► Apple has been on this track for a very long time,

01:14:14 ◼   ► starting with compact UI all the way back in iOS 14.

01:14:17 ◼   ► Then you take a look at the dynamic island,

01:14:19 ◼   ► all the things that they have done in terms of visual design and motion design.

01:14:23 ◼   ► All of that stuff is going to stay and liquid design is going to stay.

01:14:26 ◼   ► The material, we can argue about the material.

01:14:28 ◼   ► You know, you can have settings, you can have different materials,

01:14:31 ◼   ► but I think this style of user interface with compact elements

01:14:35 ◼   ► that morph contextually based on what you're doing,

01:14:37 ◼   ► that's going to stay here for a while.

01:14:39 ◼   ► So I think it's, as we said all the way back in July,

01:14:43 ◼   ► it's a good idea.

01:14:43 ◼   ► They've done it now.

01:14:44 ◼   ► Good job.

01:14:45 ◼   ► There's conversation around what, should this be an accessibility?

01:14:50 ◼   ► Why is it not an accessibility?

01:14:52 ◼   ► And Stephen Aquino wrote this great piece on his blog,

01:14:56 ◼   ► the link will be in the show notes,

01:14:57 ◼   ► about how this is not a hardcore accessibility feature,

01:15:02 ◼   ► that he, as an accessibility expert,

01:15:04 ◼   ► he's covered this stuff for a long time,

01:15:07 ◼   ► views this as a, more of a personal preference or setting.

01:15:11 ◼   ► Now, that's not to say it doesn't help some people,

01:15:13 ◼   ► accessibility wise,

01:15:15 ◼   ► but it is not a big of a change

01:15:19 ◼   ► as things like reduced transparency might be.

01:15:21 ◼   ► And reduced transparency is buggy.

01:15:23 ◼   ► Apple have accessibility settings for people

01:15:24 ◼   ► that need the accessibility to change.

01:15:26 ◼   ► They have, they shipped with those in 26 anyway.

01:15:28 ◼   ► Yes.

01:15:29 ◼   ► Right, like they existed already.

01:15:30 ◼   ► And we talked this summer about that,

01:15:32 ◼   ► about how Apple takes this stuff seriously.

01:15:34 ◼   ► I think it's good to have this option, right?

01:15:37 ◼   ► And I think after reading Stephen's piece,

01:15:40 ◼   ► I understand why it's not an accessibility.

01:15:41 ◼   ► It's on the same screen as like light and dark mode are, right?

01:15:44 ◼   ► Well, what it reminds me of is also what's on the same screen now,

01:15:47 ◼   ► is always on display.

01:15:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:49 ◼   ► Right, where you can have a bunch of settings for always on display,

01:15:53 ◼   ► which is like an important feature of the iPhone,

01:15:55 ◼   ► but you can turn it off if you want to.

01:15:57 ◼   ► You can choose to make the screen black.

01:16:00 ◼   ► You can blur your photo.

01:16:02 ◼   ► It reminds me kind of of that in a way of like,

01:16:05 ◼   ► hey, do you want to just change the way a significant part of your iPhone looks and feels?

01:16:09 ◼   ► Like it's in the display settings.

01:16:10 ◼   ► The same as the display zoom as well.

01:16:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:16:14 ◼   ► What did we say?

01:16:16 ◼   ► If you go back and listen to that episode,

01:16:18 ◼   ► we had a whole thing about what is the role of opinionated design at scale in 2025.

01:16:25 ◼   ► And Isaac, I said it then, I'm going to say it now.

01:16:28 ◼   ► I think you can still have opinionated design,

01:16:32 ◼   ► but it's got to be opinionated with options.

01:16:36 ◼   ► Like we live in such a society, in such a world,

01:16:40 ◼   ► and so many different people from so many different backgrounds are using these devices

01:16:46 ◼   ► that a single, you know, sort of Steve Jobs coming down from the mountain with the design,

01:16:51 ◼   ► that's not going to work.

01:16:52 ◼   ► You've got to be opinionated with options.

01:16:55 ◼   ► That's the only way to do it.

01:16:56 ◼   ► They are doing it now.

01:16:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:16:58 ◼   ► And that's, yeah.

01:16:59 ◼   ► Because I guess if you're going to be opinionated at that,

01:17:02 ◼   ► at the scale that Apple's at, everybody has an opinion, right?

01:17:05 ◼   ► Everyone else has an opinion.

01:17:07 ◼   ► So are you going to allow them to exert their opinion?

01:17:11 ◼   ► And I think they are.

01:17:13 ◼   ► The key thing for me here is, will this become part of the onboarding?

01:17:19 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

01:17:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:21 ◼   ► It's not when you restart from the beta, but that doesn't mean it won't be there on new phones.

01:17:29 ◼   ► I think also long-term, we are going to see that display and brightness page.

01:17:35 ◼   ► I don't like the way it's called.

01:17:37 ◼   ► I think we will see an initiative to rebrand that page to the personalization page.

01:17:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:46 ◼   ► Something around visual.

01:17:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:49 ◼   ► I mean, design and something is probably better, rather than brightness.

01:17:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:55 ◼   ► Display and brightness.

01:17:56 ◼   ► It's like, am I calibrating my TV here?

01:18:01 ◼   ► Probably.

01:18:02 ◼   ► There might be some calibration in here.

01:18:05 ◼   ► Could you have no motion smoothing?

01:18:07 ◼   ► Let's go take a look.

01:18:08 ◼   ► I expect that this probably will be.

01:18:12 ◼   ► And I think what is key here is, as far as I'm aware, 26 has still not been pushed to people.

01:18:19 ◼   ► Right?

01:18:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:21 ◼   ► I don't think so.

01:18:22 ◼   ► I mean, they usually wait for the 0.1 anyway.

01:18:24 ◼   ► It makes sense to me that they would put this in 26.1 before the general public have seen it.

01:18:31 ◼   ► And then during the onboarding process, because there is a whole, hey, check out iOS 26, right?

01:18:37 ◼   ► They do that.

01:18:38 ◼   ► This is what iOS 26 looks like.

01:18:40 ◼   ► I bet that at the end of that, they're like, and how do you want it to look?

01:18:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:45 ◼   ► And it could open the door to even more things, right?

01:18:48 ◼   ► But on the home screen, you have tinting of icons, and you have that on the Mac.

01:18:54 ◼   ► I actually kind of disagree with tinting as the option opposite of clear here.

01:18:59 ◼   ► It's more like...

01:18:59 ◼   ► Because you can't change the color, can you?

01:19:01 ◼   ► Like it's...

01:19:01 ◼   ► No, it should be called solid and clear, or frosted and clear.

01:19:06 ◼   ► I don't know, but...

01:19:07 ◼   ► Frosted and gloss.

01:19:08 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe.

01:19:09 ◼   ► Something.

01:19:10 ◼   ► Maybe.

01:19:10 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:19:11 ◼   ► But it would be great if they had more of those sort of system-wide things.

01:19:15 ◼   ► Like even on the Mac, right?

01:19:16 ◼   ► If you go into the appearance section, you can change like the highlight color.

01:19:22 ◼   ► It's like all your controls are orange or everything is blue, separate from the dock tinting, right?

01:19:27 ◼   ► That would be cool.

01:19:29 ◼   ► And I don't know if that...

01:19:30 ◼   ► I mean, who knows if that's coming or not, but there's so much potential here for further customization.

01:19:35 ◼   ► I think that Apple would be silly to discount that.

01:19:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:19:40 ◼   ► One other thing in 26.1 Beta 4, which I'm very excited about and didn't know I wanted, is

01:19:45 ◼   ► the ability...

01:19:45 ◼   ► They're adding a toggle to you to turn off the swipe to get to the camera on the lock screen.

01:19:49 ◼   ► I never use this feature.

01:19:51 ◼   ► If I ever do it, it's by accident.

01:19:53 ◼   ► So like, I cannot wait to turn this off.

01:19:55 ◼   ► Oh, actually, speaking of seconds, what are you two going to...

01:19:58 ◼   ► I mean, I haven't tried it yet, but what are you two going to do?

01:20:00 ◼   ► Are you going to be frosted or are you going to be clear?

01:20:01 ◼   ► No, clear.

01:20:03 ◼   ► Clear.

01:20:03 ◼   ► Yeah, me too.

01:20:04 ◼   ► Live your life.

01:20:05 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:20:06 ◼   ► Live a little, you know?

01:20:08 ◼   ► That is a dangerous statement.

01:20:09 ◼   ► Don't read a notification every now and then.

01:20:11 ◼   ► You know, it's amazing.

01:20:12 ◼   ► This is the life.

01:20:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:13 ◼   ► This is the way we live.

01:20:14 ◼   ► It looks very different on light and dark mode from the images that I've seen, too.

01:20:18 ◼   ► Like, on dark mode, it's a bit more clear than it is on light mode.

01:20:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:21 ◼   ► Which I think makes sense, because dark mode is easier to read than light mode, anyway.

01:20:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:25 ◼   ► And in terms of adoption, like, I know with Widget Smith, iOS 18.6 has twice the users of

01:20:32 ◼   ► iOS 26, right?

01:20:34 ◼   ► And that's a very big app with a very sort of general public usage base.

01:20:38 ◼   ► Well, that would change once they push it out, right?

01:20:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:40 ◼   ► If you added all versions of iOS 18, it's like three times the number of people running iOS

01:20:46 ◼   ► 18 than iOS 26.

01:20:48 ◼   ► Any iOS 27 in there?

01:20:50 ◼   ► Not that I see.

01:20:51 ◼   ► Any iOS 27?

01:20:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:54 ◼   ► What is this?

01:20:55 ◼   ► Car OS?

01:20:56 ◼   ► What is this?

01:20:56 ◼   ► This is where, unfortunately, Underscore has just canceled this podcast, so.

01:21:04 ◼   ► Probably.

01:21:04 ◼   ► That's the end.

01:21:05 ◼   ► But it is not as widespread as it could be yet.

01:21:08 ◼   ► And in the past, Apple has had this developer announcement of like, oh, the new version of

01:21:14 ◼   ► iOS is now at 80% usage or whatever.

01:21:18 ◼   ► I think that's going to come very late this year would be my expectation because Apple is

01:21:22 ◼   ► slow to roll it out.

01:21:23 ◼   ► And I do think, not to the degree there was with iOS 7, where like people were telling

01:21:29 ◼   ► other people not to update, but I do think word has gotten out of like, oh, there's big

01:21:34 ◼   ► changes in this new version that maybe I don't want yet.

01:21:38 ◼   ► And I know that I have been asked, it's anecdotal, but by a couple of people of like, hey, should

01:21:44 ◼   ► I update?

01:21:44 ◼   ► And I never get that about the iPhone, right?

01:21:47 ◼   ► Not since the iOS 7 days.

01:21:48 ◼   ► And iOS 8 suffered from that a little bit because people had flashbacks.

01:21:52 ◼   ► But I do think out in the world, there is a perception that, oh, this is another big change

01:21:57 ◼   ► and maybe I want to hold off.

01:21:58 ◼   ► So in a way, Apple has some time to kind of keep tinkering with this.

01:22:03 ◼   ► But yeah, options are good.

01:22:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:08 ◼   ► Well, I think that does it for this episode of the Connected Podcast.

01:22:14 ◼   ► It's been a good one.

01:22:15 ◼   ► We've been some places.

01:22:16 ◼   ► You know, we had the quizzies.

01:22:17 ◼   ► We had new iPads.

01:22:19 ◼   ► We had Mike's new phone.

01:22:23 ◼   ► Lots of stuff.

01:22:24 ◼   ► I'm really stalling because I'm on the wrong tab.

01:22:27 ◼   ► Okay.

01:22:28 ◼   ► And I can't find Notion again.

01:22:30 ◼   ► Okay, here we are.

01:22:31 ◼   ► I'd like to thank our sponsors this week for making this show possible.

01:22:35 ◼   ► Gusto and Ecamm.

01:22:36 ◼   ► They're cool.

01:22:37 ◼   ► And you can be cool too.

01:22:37 ◼   ► So if you want to leave feedback or follow up, you can do that at connectedfeedback.com.

01:22:43 ◼   ► And there's a link in the show notes.

01:22:44 ◼   ► There's also a link to Get Connected Pro, which is the longer ad-free version of the show.

01:22:51 ◼   ► We do it each and every week.

01:22:52 ◼   ► This week, we talked about footwear and Pokemon.

01:22:55 ◼   ► Pretty good combo.

01:22:57 ◼   ► Every week for the last six weeks has been some version of that conversation.

01:23:02 ◼   ► We are now done with the XP Crock conversation, I think.

01:23:05 ◼   ► I don't know if we are.

01:23:05 ◼   ► I don't know if we are.

01:23:06 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:23:07 ◼   ► We'll find out.

01:23:07 ◼   ► You can never tell.

01:23:09 ◼   ► Maybe they'll do Vista once and you see through them.

01:23:11 ◼   ► They're just clear, yeah.

01:23:13 ◼   ► They're just clear.

01:23:14 ◼   ► Nobody wants them.

01:23:15 ◼   ► Nobody wants them.

01:23:16 ◼   ► They make you walk slower.

01:23:18 ◼   ► Because Vista was slow.

01:23:20 ◼   ► Did either one of you ever touch Vista?

01:23:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:23:25 ◼   ► I'm sure I touched it, but I didn't have a PC then.

01:23:28 ◼   ► I don't think.

01:23:30 ◼   ► Or maybe I did.

01:23:31 ◼   ► No, I don't think so.

01:23:33 ◼   ► I think I moved to the Mac then.

01:23:34 ◼   ► When was Vista?

01:23:35 ◼   ► What year?

01:23:35 ◼   ► I have to look.

01:23:37 ◼   ► 2009?

01:23:40 ◼   ► 8?

01:23:40 ◼   ► 7?

01:23:41 ◼   ► 7, 8?

01:23:42 ◼   ► Yeah, okay.

01:23:43 ◼   ► I don't...

01:23:44 ◼   ► Okay.

01:23:45 ◼   ► When was the first Intel iMac?

01:23:47 ◼   ► These are my two important pieces of information.

01:23:50 ◼   ► All right.

01:23:51 ◼   ► See, I moved to the Mac when Vista came out.

01:23:53 ◼   ► I used Vista a lot.

01:23:54 ◼   ► At the time, I was working at the Salvation Army, and Vista was in all of our new machines,

01:23:59 ◼   ► and it was terrible to support.

01:24:01 ◼   ► Truly awful.

01:24:02 ◼   ► I know I had used it, but it wasn't my own computer.

01:24:05 ◼   ► Okay.

01:24:05 ◼   ► Well, now we've talked about Windows Vista.

01:24:08 ◼   ► Yep.

01:24:09 ◼   ► That's good.

01:24:09 ◼   ► If you want to find more of us, you can find Mike on a bunch of shows here at Relay.

01:24:15 ◼   ► You can check his work out at Cortex Brand.

01:24:19 ◼   ► I like Wortex, actually.

01:24:21 ◼   ► Wortex.

01:24:21 ◼   ► I might go buy that.

01:24:22 ◼   ► Wortex.

01:24:23 ◼   ► That's talking about military workflows.

01:24:26 ◼   ► You have new Subtle stuff out.

01:24:29 ◼   ► Yes.

01:24:30 ◼   ► The Subtle line is out for the year.

01:24:32 ◼   ► It's a subtle range as it is now.

01:24:34 ◼   ► I'm very excited about the quarter zip pullover that we have.

01:24:37 ◼   ► It's like a very official feeling thing.

01:24:40 ◼   ► It makes me feel like a dad, but it also could maybe work for you in your workplace.

01:24:44 ◼   ► But we have t-shirts and sweaters and hoodies, as we always do, over at CortexBrand.com.

01:24:48 ◼   ► Awesome.

01:24:49 ◼   ► You can find Federico at MacStories.net.

01:24:52 ◼   ► Go check out his iPad Pro Review if you haven't read it.

01:24:55 ◼   ► It's in the show notes.

01:24:56 ◼   ► You can find my writing at 512pixels.net, and I co-host Mac Power Users here on Relay each

01:25:02 ◼   ► and every Sunday.

01:25:03 ◼   ► I'd like to thank you for listening, and until next time, y'all, say goodbye.

01:25:06 ◼   ► Arrivederci.

01:25:08 ◼   ► Cheerio.

01:25:09 ◼   ► Bye, y'all.