00:00:00 ◼ ► from relay this is upgrade episode 588 today's show is brought to you by squarespace delete me fitpod and udacity my name is mike harley and i'm joined by jason snell hi jason snell hi mike harley how are you you know jason i had a i had a week off last week which yeah thanks welcome back
00:00:29 ◼ ► thanks for uh for steven for filling in and uh this was like one of those things of like you know ask my wife do you want to go away anywhere you know do you want to she said no i just want to be at home we'll just get some stuff done we'll just spend some time together uh two days in uh baby got a fever and uh had a fever for two days and now i got a cold so i i what i'll say is i was happy i'm happy i was at home you know so like we were both on call with a poorly baby but uh did not
00:00:59 ◼ ► get the the time off um that i was hoping for but such is life you know yeah such is life i have a snell talk
00:01:07 ◼ ► question for you jason comes from chelsea who wants to know do you change your mac passwords when reviewing
00:01:13 ◼ ► units or upgrading to new models i just acquired a mac studio from coming from a mac mini and it's so
00:01:19 ◼ ► tempting to keep the account password the same for convenience i'm keeping both machines for now
00:01:24 ◼ ► so using different passwords is really important when you're doing things in the cloud where they
00:01:29 ◼ ► could leak uh on your devices that you have with you it's not so important and i absolutely
00:01:34 ◼ ► when i'm using review units or whatever in fact i don't want to have to be like what password did i use
00:01:38 ◼ ► for that review unit so there's a i have a small set of stock passwords that get rotated around for all of
00:01:44 ◼ ► those so yeah i just use the same and when i get a new mac it uses the same password as the old mac
00:01:49 ◼ ► absolutely 100 i've got to say jason this is uh maybe something i shouldn't admit but i'm going
00:01:55 ◼ ► to admit it my mac password is hilariously bad it's it's not good it is not a good password
00:02:03 ◼ ► that's not a good password either but i mean i don't really expect that somebody from the internet
00:02:07 ◼ ► is going to break into my house and uh that's my thinking like yeah i feel like the there is more
00:02:13 ◼ ► of a risk of my online passwords be the stuff that's in one password yes slightly like a thousand
00:02:19 ◼ ► like 10 000 times more risk maybe a million times more risk yeah then a hacker breaking into your studio
00:02:26 ◼ ► and uh tip tip tip tip tapping around because i'm in the password is not like the password is not very
00:02:35 ◼ ► complicated but it's also complicated enough that you wouldn't be able to just guess it like it's not
00:02:41 ◼ ► like an obvious thing about me and i figure i would be able to do something about the fact that my mac has
00:02:48 ◼ ► disappeared before they would get it that's my thinking well who knows yeah who knows if you'd like
00:02:55 ◼ ► to send in a snell talk question for us to open a future episode of the show please go to upgrade
00:03:00 ◼ ► feedback.com and you can send in a snell talk question of your own uh jason it is apple results day
00:03:07 ◼ ► today and we're going to be talking about apple having all the money but before then we would
00:03:11 ◼ ► like to have all of the money isn't that right yes yeah and how would we do that jason well one way we
00:03:16 ◼ ► could do that is by doing a little bit of a we we always are selling upgrade merchandise if you do not
00:03:22 ◼ ► know it upgrade upgrade your wardrobe.com but we are we have now opened a limited run as of this
00:03:30 ◼ ► episode through november 19th at cotton bureau so that you can order some things that are limited run
00:03:37 ◼ ► for your uh end of year choice of uh of attire yes um putting a bunch of stuff back on sale that has
00:03:46 ◼ ► not been on sale before uh so upgrade your wardrobe through november 19th the the colors are and upgrade
00:03:53 ◼ ► pro shirts are back to explain what these are they have the upgrade logo on them everybody loves it it's
00:03:58 ◼ ► you know a little arrow pointing up in a power button circle thing uh the pro shirt uh which makes it
00:04:05 ◼ ► delights me every time comes in a variety of uh not colors a variety of monochromes because it's
00:04:11 ◼ ► professional and we all know professional things should probably not come in colors i mean technically we
00:04:18 ◼ ► should have put we should have an orange in there this time we should have an orange professional but if
00:04:22 ◼ ► you would like a cosmic orange shirt you should get the colors are sure because the colors are blessed
00:04:27 ◼ ► us all with colorful upgrade shirts as well so take your pick your poison lots of colors in there and
00:04:33 ◼ ► then the arrow and the upgrade logo becomes whatever is the color of the shirt this is such a good shirt
00:04:38 ◼ ► right like uh you know we have a purple one i'm gonna order a new one of something yeah if people who
00:04:43 ◼ ► want to go to youtube can see me i'm wearing a pink one that i ordered a year or two ago this is a great
00:04:49 ◼ ► idea from you which is like obviously the upgrade logo we have the red arrow and it's basically
00:04:54 ◼ ► whatever color t-shirt you get is the color of the arrow because it comes it comes through the look i
00:05:01 ◼ ► really like it's a great idea t-shirt with the purple arrow it's fun so that's the colors are and then the
00:05:05 ◼ ► pro for the people who don't want to wear color but prefer monochrome it's fine you're professional
00:05:08 ◼ ► and you get that um the upgrade hoodie is back this is our longest running i think maybe piece of merch
00:05:14 ◼ ► it was our first piece of merch i think so i i think so uh it's a very nice hoodie it has an
00:05:20 ◼ ► embroidered upgrade logo on it you can still order the classic independent trading company heavy hoodie
00:05:27 ◼ ► that is uh the one that i actually went to cotton bureau and said this is my favorite hoodie
00:05:31 ◼ ► please can you do it in this and they said sure but there are a bunch of other variants now there's a
00:05:36 ◼ ► lighter model and there's that three-quarter zip that everybody likes yeah we got those now yep
00:05:42 ◼ ► i'm i uh we just did this for for cortex brand for the subtle stuff and uh i had cotton bureau send me
00:05:49 ◼ ► one i wasn't sure about this this was like a recommendation that they made and i am absolutely
00:05:54 ◼ ► in love with this uh with this clothing i'm so i have one with the cortex logo on it it's just a very
00:06:00 ◼ ► it's just like a nice piece of clothing it's nice and like cozy and comfortable but it's also
00:06:05 ◼ ► something you can kind of dress up quite well um and so it looks good in the office as well as it does
00:06:11 ◼ ► uh i was gonna say it's it's it's a it's good in like corporate environments and golf courses and
00:06:18 ◼ ► places like that where dads can wear it especially my thing i think it feels very dad to me it's very dad
00:06:23 ◼ ► and that's probably why i like it now but i think if you are like an it professional you should buy
00:06:29 ◼ ► the upgrade version of this right yeah like you're killing it you're turning things on and off left
00:06:35 ◼ ► right and center like you this is this is your whole this is your whole thing there's also a uh a new
00:06:41 ◼ ► shirt that's a variation that we haven't ever done before that i wanted to do of the upgrade logo which
00:06:46 ◼ ► is um which is we've never actually done a shirt that says upgrade on it so there's a version now you
00:06:51 ◼ ► can get that's a colors are kind of shirt but it says upgrade below it in the upgrade logo font
00:06:57 ◼ ► yeah because if you would like to explain what the logo means means your shirt all the answers about
00:07:02 ◼ ► what this logo is are answered by the word on my shirt it's upgrade uh because because some people
00:07:08 ◼ ► i mean i just i realized we'd never really offered the proper upgrade kind of logo in a in that concept
00:07:13 ◼ ► so that's an option if you want if you're if you're a words person you know like maybe it's important to
00:07:18 ◼ ► you that it says upgrade on it and and if if you are that words person now we have a t-shirt for you
00:07:23 ◼ ► yeah so welcome mn finally there is a shirt that i demanded we make i hate it i demanded it this is
00:07:33 ◼ ► the entire reason we're doing any of this yeah it's not it's not but it is an impetus for it it's true
00:07:39 ◼ ► this is this is going to be the upgrade version of your connected tiny head shirt i guess yes so
00:07:48 ◼ ► was you were lamenting and we were lamenting the airpods max never really getting an update
00:07:57 ◼ ► and um and and uh usbc and then they lost the cable and then the cable came back months later and
00:08:05 ◼ ► we were just lamenting all of this and uh and we joked that maybe there should be an airpods max
00:08:11 ◼ ► believe shirt like how the our friends at the accidental tech podcast have a mac pro believe
00:08:16 ◼ ► shirt and so that's what we did there's a picture of airpods max with the word believe below it and
00:08:21 ◼ ► thanks to john siracusa for the inspiration if you're an airpods pro airpods max believer
00:08:27 ◼ ► um get that shirt because it's got headphones and says believe below it and enjoy and we'll see how
00:08:35 ◼ ► many of those we sell but i think it's very funny we should do that shirt no one will buy it that's the
00:08:40 ◼ ► quote uh i think uh i yeah i think so so prove mike wrong and buy that shirt we also i should remind
00:08:48 ◼ ► you a bunch of shirts that are available at all times including now there's a rumor roundup lawyer
00:08:52 ◼ ► up upgrade draft you could throw those in as well and mike has gone through and added a whole lot of
00:08:57 ◼ ► colors and weights and stuff so we have lots of different options hopefully one will be right for
00:09:02 ◼ ► you yeah i want to mention this like over the years cotton bureau has increased the amount of product
00:09:09 ◼ ► that they have available to print on and so like for example in the colors are t-shirt you have the
00:09:15 ◼ ► lightweight which is these are the ones that we've kind of always had and there's either a cotton or
00:09:20 ◼ ► there's the tri-blend but there's also premium heavyweight and basic heavyweight and that's a
00:09:25 ◼ ► price difference uh for them a little bit now i absolutely love the premium heavyweight options
00:09:32 ◼ ► it's uh comfort colors they're a little bit more oversized and the t-shirt's a little bit thicker
00:09:36 ◼ ► um and they come in some interesting colors and then the basic heavyweight option there are more
00:09:40 ◼ ► colors available and similar like they're they're a bit more of an oversized fit which i just find to
00:09:45 ◼ ► be much to be more comfortable um and so i really love those so they're there but also there are long
00:09:50 ◼ ► sleeve t-shirts there are pullovers in different thicknesses again like between midweight and heavyweight
00:09:57 ◼ ► um we have pullover hoodies similar uh and tank tops and then and as jason mentioned earlier as well
00:10:04 ◼ ► in the hoodie we now have a thick and a thinner like a lighter weight and a and a heavier weight
00:10:10 ◼ ► um of the the hoodie depending on kind of like do you want it to be for the winter or do you want it to
00:10:15 ◼ ► be for fall um and then also the quarters it pull over as well so i would recommend like go and take a look
00:10:21 ◼ ► go take a look at the different colors available in the different shirt options and there's a lot
00:10:26 ◼ ► of option now and i really love it yeah i think you've got a couple weeks to but you know hurry in
00:10:32 ◼ ► yep and do it now and if you can combine that with some other cotton bureau order you're making all the
00:10:37 ◼ ► better you can save on shipping that way uh so that is over upgrade your wardrobe.com and there will
00:10:42 ◼ ► of course be links in the show notes for you to click and to see uh and also the chapter artwork
00:10:47 ◼ ► right now is showing you a little preview of some of these t-shirts as well in case you want a little
00:10:51 ◼ ► sneak peek but it's about to change because we're about to leave this topic so yeah so you have to
00:10:55 ◼ ► look right now in five four three two all right we're now into follow-up um i had a couple of
00:11:02 ◼ ► follow-up items uh one from uh last week and one from the week before so you and steven were talking
00:11:08 ◼ ► about falling asleep of airpods and like i think it was an ask upgrade question someone was asking about
00:11:14 ◼ ► um i sometimes do fall asleep possibly yeah yeah yeah i sometimes do fall asleep with airpods in
00:11:26 ◼ ► but i do use sleep headphones every night um i there's a product called oslo o-z-l-o this company
00:11:36 ◼ ► was founded by a group of engineers who used to work at bose bose used to do a sleep headphone product
00:11:44 ◼ ► which they stopped doing and then that team went and made this company um and so these are like little
00:11:51 ◼ ► bluetooth headphones um they work in a few different ways you can use them as bluetooth headphones and
00:11:57 ◼ ► listen to and watch whatever you want on your iphone but also you can pre-program it with the app
00:12:03 ◼ ► to just like as soon as i like pick these things up play some kind of background sound like i have an
00:12:08 ◼ ► ocean sound that plays like this that sound of ocean um you can also set an alarm with them so it'll play
00:12:14 ◼ ► an alarm in the morning if they're still in your ears sometimes they fall out of my ears uh overnight
00:12:18 ◼ ► um and uh they also have like you know you can set the time you can set the the background sound to
00:12:25 ◼ ► just run for an amount of time i think for me it's like 45 minutes and it just turns off
00:12:29 ◼ ► uh these are fantastic like they are made for people who sleep on their side basically so i can
00:12:35 ◼ ► put my ear flat to my pillow and i don't feel them they've got like those little wing tips in them to
00:12:40 ◼ ► keep them in your ears and most of the time they actually are still in my ears in the morning sometimes
00:12:44 ◼ ► one of them's falling out whatever i don't know what don't know what i'm doing but um yeah i really
00:12:49 ◼ ► think it's fantastic i'm i'm a big big fan uh of this product uh and i i really recommend it to
00:12:56 ◼ ► people who would like something like that you know that's really cool i've been i've been
00:13:01 ◼ ► oh i've been i've had these for nearly a year or over a year and i i use them absolutely every night
00:13:06 ◼ ► so if that is a thing that you care about uh i recommend trying out the also sleep buds um okay
00:13:13 ◼ ► on airpods pro 3 i've kind of really gotten used to them now like you know like we were having some
00:13:18 ◼ ► issues with like fit and stuff like that yeah in memphis we talked about how they were surprising to
00:13:23 ◼ ► to put them in i i also am used to them now and yeah and it and i think i actually think there's a
00:13:29 ◼ ► little breaking in period where i don't know whether it's my ears or the foam or a little bit of both
00:13:33 ◼ ► but um after a week or so it it uh they're fine and they are superior to the twos um my long
00:13:42 ◼ ► spotlight nightmare is over jason hooray uh so i ran those terminal commands again uh from that we
00:13:49 ◼ ► were talking about a few weeks ago and then i did a full reboot of my machine and now spotlight is
00:13:54 ◼ ► working as expected uh it can find apps it can find files and contacts and even clipboard history is
00:13:59 ◼ ► working again for me now so very happy about that so finally we got there i'm pleased finally we did it
00:14:05 ◼ ► all right that's great i've heard from other people who are struggling with this and i think
00:14:09 ◼ ► that this is very clearly a bad bug yeah in tahoe i i see it i don't know if i've seen it in in 26 one
00:14:17 ◼ ► but i i've seen it in 26 sporadically and then it just comes back or i reboot and it comes back and
00:14:24 ◼ ► then it's fine but every now and then it would run out um so there's a bug going on i hope they fixed
00:14:29 ◼ ► it in point one yeah i guess that's the thing maybe potentially when this episode comes out the
00:14:35 ◼ ► point one releases are out um i think i want to talk about that a little bit yeah because i haven't
00:14:41 ◼ ► i i have not even installed uh like i've not installed the beta version of 26 one and i'm actually
00:14:46 ◼ ► quite intrigued uh about some of the changes that they've made like trying out some liquid glass
00:14:51 ◼ ► changes and stuff like that so but yeah maybe in in tahoe uh point one um it will fix it for everyone
00:14:57 ◼ ► maybe i don't know maybe and i just want to share a frustration that i've had you know i'm just gonna
00:15:02 ◼ ► i'm airing a grievance here with uh the apple watch apple watch workout detection i want it to
00:15:08 ◼ ► recognize me pushing a stroller like it it doesn't ever pop up and be like hey you working out you know
00:15:14 ◼ ► like it's because you're not moving your wrist right because you're just holding it on the stroller
00:15:17 ◼ ► yeah exactly but what i know is when i'm doing that my exertion level is way higher than when i'm
00:15:24 ◼ ► walking otherwise right so like i i know that this stuff is complicated but they have done this
00:15:29 ◼ ► kind of stuff for so many things i just wish they would do this too that that's my that is the only
00:15:35 ◼ ► i just wanted to air that grievance i find it frustrating um because i i know i'm working way
00:15:39 ◼ ► harder when i'm pushing that stroller than when i'm otherwise just walking around um and so i would
00:15:44 ◼ ► love i would love the uh i would love the recognition for it without starting a workout on my own
00:15:50 ◼ ► you know like i i just i want the credit right i get it and now we have some follow-up setting from
00:15:57 ◼ ► listeners it's not just all about me jason wrote in and said i found that i can take some of the
00:16:02 ◼ ► best naps that i have while wearing the vision pro oh yeah we talked about like can you just lay back
00:16:07 ◼ ► and fall asleep i i think that was a joke i made where i said oh fall asleep with airpods how about
00:16:12 ◼ ► fall asleep with the vision pro and guess what it happens uh jason says i lay on a flat carpeted area
00:16:17 ◼ ► i put on the mindfulness app and i'm out within five minutes something about the ambient pulsating
00:16:23 ◼ ► noise just sends me right to sleep i think i think there's also a study somewhere on quote
00:16:28 ◼ ► face hugging devices helping someone fall asleep faster probably you could find more about this in
00:16:33 ◼ ► the apple vision pro subreddit which i thought was funny i guess it's all popping off over there or
00:16:38 ◼ ► that or like the cpap uh sleep apnea forums might maybe people get comfort from that too
00:16:43 ◼ ► i mean there's always somebody yes there's always somebody uh i assume you probably get pretty hot eyes
00:16:50 ◼ ► um by the end of that experience too probably probably but if it's a nap you know yes yeah i guess it
00:16:59 ◼ ► depends on how well jason doesn't say how long the nap is you know yeah but i mean a nap isn't long i i would
00:17:04 ◼ ► i would not be able to to i would be tossing and turning and then i'd have a vision pro stuck on my
00:17:09 ◼ ► face and it would be bad but but just if you're laying flat if you're just laying flat um for a
00:17:15 ◼ ► little nap little cat nap okay like if you're on the ground right so jason's on the ground here
00:17:21 ◼ ► and imagine like turning your head and like bumping the vision pro on the floor oh that would hurt
00:17:28 ◼ ► can't do that steve writes in and said uh this feedback pertains to the listener chris's feedback
00:17:33 ◼ ► about the iphone air and poor cellular service at a music festival it would be interesting to know how
00:17:39 ◼ ► much to know which carrier chris was with and if he has premium data if you have unlimited data but not
00:17:46 ◼ ► premium unlimited data your network speeds could be slowed down because of network congestion there
00:17:52 ◼ ► there was a lot of different types of feedback about this you know some people saying uh maybe
00:17:57 ◼ ► it was like millimeter wave maybe it's data the only reason i really included this is like it was an
00:18:03 ◼ ► interesting thing to talk about i was like oh this was an example of maybe it didn't work but of course
00:18:09 ◼ ► with these things there are so many edge cases but chris's story was that all of his friends got data
00:18:14 ◼ ► and he didn't so that would suggest that they all have some better plan than chris has i i doubt that's
00:18:21 ◼ ► the case i doubt that's the case well i guess maybe maybe chris is using one of those mvno things like a
00:18:26 ◼ ► mint mobile or something and they always use low priority data maybe yeah i mean we it's it's just an
00:18:33 ◼ ► anecdote about a difference between the apple modem and and the other modems um and there are other
00:18:39 ◼ ► potential explanations for it i think that that's that's true although the idea that everybody else
00:18:45 ◼ ► is unaffected and chris is affected it seems to point at the apple modem to me well if anecdotes
00:18:51 ◼ ► are what you want i've got another one this comes from nick who says regarding iphone air sales and
00:18:56 ◼ ► enthusiasm one factor that i haven't seen mentioned is that some carriers are offering greater discount
00:19:01 ◼ ► offers on the iphone pro models that end up making the air a more expensive choice i just helped my
00:19:07 ◼ ► parents order new iphones at at&t and they wanted to trade in their old iphone 13s and be given
00:19:13 ◼ ► eleven hundred dollars in trading credit to purchase a 17 pro or pro max but with the same trade-in they
00:19:22 ◼ ► interesting that is interesting they yeah why are they why are they doing well i have a theory about
00:19:29 ◼ ► the air which is that it has smaller margins yeah and so there's a limitation there that of how low
00:19:36 ◼ ► they will go but if they're also not giving the credit for the 17 they're really driving people
00:19:40 ◼ ► um to the to get up to the pro it's an interesting concept i wonder i wonder what's going on there of
00:19:48 ◼ ► course that's going to vary by region and carrier yeah i wonder if there's some kind of incentive maybe
00:19:52 ◼ ► that apple gives the carriers to to try and get them to sell the more expensive phones but would it
00:19:58 ◼ ► make a difference if they're given higher trading value it's a big difference the trading value right
00:20:03 ◼ ► it's like 400 difference yeah so i mean yeah these are the kinds of things that could that could add
00:20:11 ◼ ► up right to to make a difference um but maybe maybe looking at total you know cost of ownership and the
00:20:18 ◼ ► idea that they're gonna if they get somebody on the pro track then the next time they upgrade to a
00:20:21 ◼ ► phone they're also going to get a pro phone in the end yeah it's going to work for them i don't know
00:20:25 ◼ ► what all the math is that's going on there it's really interesting this is actually a little aside
00:20:29 ◼ ► here we did a story on six colors last week shelly brisbane wrote this story it was her idea and then
00:20:35 ◼ ► i asked her to expand it and then i did a bunch of charts it was about um she asked a bunch of the
00:20:39 ◼ ► people and mostly in her her friend group in her newsroom she's a radio journalist in texas
00:20:43 ◼ ► um about their iphone buying behavior and um and it and then we asked six colors members in our discord
00:20:55 ◼ ► and there were lots of fascinating differences you can check out six colors for that story
00:21:00 ◼ ► i i spent a lot of time working on charts and lots of good there's a fun there's a fun chart about
00:21:05 ◼ ► people's color preferences that it's it's got the colors i had to figure out what the color was going
00:21:09 ◼ ► to be for no preference and i just made it a crazy gradient of every color uh so it's like you pick
00:21:16 ◼ ► whatever um but the one i wanted to mention here is um shelly's group a larger percentage of them
00:21:25 ◼ ► are on some sort of a plan and what we found is that the six colors members almost nobody was on
00:21:30 ◼ ► some kind of a plan from their carrier from apple yeah and and it's that's really interesting because
00:21:37 ◼ ► the because obviously the more technical people were much more likely to buy a new phone every year or two
00:21:42 ◼ ► yeah um i i i think there's a hole there where people like the people in our audience are for whatever
00:21:52 ◼ ► reason reluctant uh to go in on a deal because they want to have like maybe it is like have
00:21:58 ◼ ► complete control i mean that i'm not on one either right so i can i can suppose from what i behave that
00:22:03 ◼ ► um you're like no no i'll just buy it uh and but the thing is if you get i know you it means you're locked
00:22:10 ◼ ► into a carrier or you're locked in with apple depending on how you choose it but like i've been on
00:22:14 ◼ ► at&t since before there was an iphone by a lot i've been on at&t since i got my first cell phone
00:22:20 ◼ ► i have never left at&t it became so it became singular and then went back to being at&t and i
00:22:25 ◼ ► was still on it so i probably could be okay a lot being locked in with at&t for a deal and i just
00:22:32 ◼ ► haven't been so i think that that is and i know it's more effort and maybe you're not doing a pre-order
00:22:36 ◼ ► although dan morin does the iphone upgrade program and he still gets to do that so i'll just put that out
00:22:41 ◼ ► there's maybe even a public service that i i think there are a lot of people who are more technical
00:22:46 ◼ ► and take control of their phone purchasing who are probably letting savings go out the window
00:22:53 ◼ ► by doing that that because the carriers and apple want to make you a deal yeah i i do think that in
00:23:00 ◼ ► our audience and especially in like private members discord there is a there is a higher level of
00:23:06 ◼ ► affluence than the general public sure sure and you're like i'll just pay i mean and but i think
00:23:11 ◼ ► it's not all i'll just pay for it right no but i think it's not just i would like to have the ultimate
00:23:16 ◼ ► flexibility over my buying decisions i'll have complete control and i'll just pay for it and it won't
00:23:21 ◼ ► matter to me but i just want to put it out there that i think that the number difference was so
00:23:26 ◼ ► enormous that i think i i suspect that part of it is that we don't think of it for reasons that if
00:23:34 ◼ ► you think about it a little harder might be less logical so it's something something interesting so
00:23:39 ◼ ► i'm glad since nick wrote in about no of the people that don't that are not on a plan do they trade in
00:23:45 ◼ ► their iphone so that i hand them down right right because that makes a difference dan morin is on a plan
00:23:51 ◼ ► that means he has to give back his iphone every year yeah but i i trade some in and get some money
00:23:57 ◼ ► back you know instead and it kind of like lessens the impact um each time or i sell it to a friend or
00:24:03 ◼ ► family member or whatever and i kind of i kind of make my money back that way yeah that's how you make
00:24:08 ◼ ► all your money right it's just you're jacking up the price on things yeah friends and family because
00:24:12 ◼ ► they don't know i sell it for more than i bought it for yeah i was going to say you just sold uh sold
00:24:17 ◼ ► your cousin an m2 vision pro for like 5 000 bucks it's like do you know this is this is mike hurley's
00:24:22 ◼ ► iphone i don't know if you know i i'm kind of a big deal this is like a this is like a thing you know
00:24:28 ◼ ► you've got like this is a piece of history right here you know oh yeah that's right oh would you like
00:24:32 ◼ ► me to sign it it's like this vision pro this is owned by a guy who experienced the vision pro before
00:24:38 ◼ ► it came out like this is yeah you know this is no serious stuff yeah this episode is brought to you
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00:26:29 ◼ ► welcome back to everybody's favorite quarterly segment that is apple results time yeah thank you
00:26:53 ◼ ► very much to the one and only lex freepin for that jingle you can check out lex's incredible games
00:26:59 ◼ ► products over at lex.games i will have a link in the show notes there thank you to lex for
00:27:05 ◼ ► those wonderful those wonderful jingles that we get to use especially this one multiple times a year so
00:27:11 ◼ ► i'm going to run through some top line figures of apple's q4 results and then we can dig into some stuff
00:27:19 ◼ ► because as always jason you've been doing some great analysis of these results revenue was 102.5
00:27:28 ◼ ► billion dollars for the quarter the quarter ending at the end of september right so um yeah as is always
00:27:36 ◼ ► worth remembering almost the end of september not quite the end of september because that's weird to
00:27:42 ◼ ► me it's like september 29th or something they do it in weeks they do it they do the quarters based on
00:27:47 ◼ ► weeks and so they'll sometimes have a longer quarter after a while because they have like it's
00:27:52 ◼ ► like a leap quarter where they have to add another week to a quarter um it's a i've been doing this so
00:27:57 ◼ ► long now that i have learned all of these things that i i just want to say again i was a kid who threw
00:28:03 ◼ ► the business section away and thought that is boring like i care so much about all other forms of
00:28:07 ◼ ► journalism and i get to the business page and i'd be like whoop no don't care and uh look what i
00:28:12 ◼ ► look the charts i make now now you are the business section i'm the business section look at me look at
00:28:18 ◼ ► me look on my works and despair look at my charts and despair 102.5 billion dollars that is a q4 record
00:28:30 ◼ ► yeah dan and i were talking about how one of these days dan morin who does six colors with me one of
00:28:38 ◼ ► these days one of these non-holiday quarters that we consider the boring quarters was just going to
00:28:44 ◼ ► casually boringly break 100 billion and this was it it's like it's the fourth quarter it's it's not one
00:28:53 ◼ ► of apple's big quarters and it's 100 it's just 102.5 billion just right there yeah yeah because yes
00:29:00 ◼ ► the reason i mentioned uh when the quarter ended is this only includes the very beginning of iphone sales
00:29:07 ◼ ► it's not the iphone sales quarter that is the next quarter which is q1 which is the holiday quarter
00:29:15 ◼ ► because that's always always the biggest that they get yeah that's interesting yeah i'm looking last
00:29:22 ◼ ► year's was 124.3 billion um and we'll talk a little bit about their guidance in a bit uh but this 102.5
00:29:32 ◼ ► was up eight percent year over year which is the biggest q4 ever rounding out apple's biggest revenue
00:29:38 ◼ ► year of all time yeah yeah it's an all-timer next next week we can talk about the annuals because i've got
00:29:46 ◼ ► my forthcoming annual charts oh nice post that will that will uh break down you know now that the fiscal
00:29:53 ◼ ► year is closed and yeah it's it was apple's best fiscal year by a lot so yeah a lot of money coming in
00:29:59 ◼ ► coming in i i'm gonna i'm gonna also do a shout out to our friend dr drang who wrote an interesting post
00:30:05 ◼ ► where he tried to take apple's revenue and normalize it for inflation which i keep waiting for an economist to say
00:30:12 ◼ ► that's not how it works but it does show you that you know one of the things that's happening here is
00:30:18 ◼ ► that as as inflation goes up uh you know apple's prices go up a little or apple's revenue goes up a
00:30:25 ◼ ► little bit and so you could normalize that and say it's about the same i think what's interesting is
00:30:29 ◼ ► apple's not raising a lot of prices and there's obviously foreign currencies involved so i'm not
00:30:33 ◼ ► sure that's a rabbit hole yeah i want to go down but i i like that he did it because he shows that
00:30:37 ◼ ► if you if you pull a little bit out because of inflation it it everything feels a little flatter
00:30:44 ◼ ► but um you know again i feel like i'm uncomfortable doing that because i i think we just need to be
00:30:51 ◼ ► aware that there are lots of macroeconomic factors that go into these numbers but i'm going to kind of
00:30:56 ◼ ► focus on the actual tangible results here because because again um you know headwinds as they like to
00:31:02 ◼ ► say the foreign exchange headwinds apple is doing business in so many different countries and they're
00:31:06 ◼ ► taking money in local currency and then they are eventually eventually repatriating it to u.s dollars
00:31:12 ◼ ► but not always right sometimes they'll keep it in the country and then spend it on things in the
00:31:17 ◼ ► country rather than having to go through an exchange and they do a bunch of hedging with currency and they
00:31:21 ◼ ► do a whole lot of stuff it's very complicated so all these numbers that we're reporting that are revenue
00:31:26 ◼ ► numbers are really these are reported apple u.s dollars it allows us to have a common frame of
00:31:32 ◼ ► reference even though we might want to be mindful of the larger complexities of this yeah okay but like
00:31:37 ◼ ► i i i'm definitely on board of you with the idea like there isn't just one level of inflation so
00:31:42 ◼ ► that doesn't hold water and then for me another thing is the assumption that apple will always have
00:31:51 ◼ ► the same level of sales no matter how much inflation goes up or down just doesn't hold for me like
00:31:56 ◼ ► it's also true and they and they've held their and the thing is by holding their prices their their
00:32:00 ◼ ► pro their the products actually are coming down in price if you think that way right because they've
00:32:06 ◼ ► held so many price points even like a 999 macbook air today costs a lot less yeah in comparative terms
00:32:13 ◼ ► than a 999 macbook air five years ago yeah so i just but yeah it is an interesting exercise but i just
00:32:22 ◼ ► wanted to put that out there yeah it's a fun blog post dr drang i love it when he writes about my
00:32:27 ◼ ► charts so thanks dr drang so one of the key things for this quarter uh is that none of the main areas
00:32:36 ◼ ► of business that apple reports on were down year over year which is not the case always i think
00:32:41 ◼ ► technically wearables home and accessories was down a teeny teeny tiny bit essentially zero yeah
00:32:46 ◼ ► yeah my chart thank you numbers for putting minus zero on that i thought i had to spend some time
00:32:52 ◼ ► trying to work out what that meant when i was looking versus ipad which is a positive zero i was
00:32:59 ◼ ► looking at it i was like what is zero and minus zero like a little little charting because the other
00:33:04 ◼ ► thing people might notice is sometimes in these charts there'll be two numbers that are the same but
00:33:08 ◼ ► the bars are slightly different and the answer is the way numbers charts and i i don't think i have
00:33:13 ◼ ► gone through the trouble of trying to fix this is numbers is charting the real number yeah so if one
00:33:19 ◼ ► of them is 12.1 and one of them is 11.6 they both will be labeled 12 yeah but one will be taller than
00:33:26 ◼ ► the other and the same way with zero it puts minus zero if it's just under and there's a little teeny
00:33:32 ◼ ► tiny wearables home accessories bar just peeking down slightly but basically it's flat and so like that
00:33:39 ◼ ► i think is one of the things that contributes to this being such a a banger quarter for them
00:33:45 ◼ ► it doesn't hurt doesn't hurt the iphone is at 49 billion dollars which is up six percent year over
00:33:51 ◼ ► year the mac is at 8.7 which is up 13 percent year over year the ipad really good for the mac really
00:33:58 ◼ ► great uh the ipad at seven billion is flat the wearables at nine billion is is also flat and
00:34:05 ◼ ► services is 28.8 billion which is up 15 percent uh year over year same old story so there's a couple
00:34:12 ◼ ► of these areas i want to dig into uh but i actually want to start with a with a dramatic reading uh of a
00:34:19 ◼ ► piece of a piece of prose uh from your reporting on this oh good i love i love this i said this last
00:34:27 ◼ ► week when i read something steven wrote that i enjoy the dramatic readings thank you i i just want to say
00:34:32 ◼ ► before you start these quarterly i used to write these for mac world and i i wrote them late in the
00:34:37 ◼ ► evening yeah and um this one uh the results came out and the and the call transcript my my transcribing
00:34:44 ◼ ► of the call that was done and posted and dan and i were going to do a live stream on youtube at 4 30
00:34:49 ◼ ► where we walked through the charts and i had like an hour and i realized well if i do this now i can get
00:34:56 ◼ ► this story out i don't have to work tonight after the live stream and it will go in the six colors
00:35:02 ◼ ► newsletter for members which goes at 5 p.m pacific and sometimes i make decisions editorial decisions based
00:35:09 ◼ ► on the newsletter because i've always gotten the back of my mind i wrote the script that builds the
00:35:14 ◼ ► newsletter i'm like oh the newsletter i should get that out um and so um a little punchy at this
00:35:21 ◼ ► point right generated a lot of charts uh edited a big transcript and then had about an hour and i was
00:35:27 ◼ ► like well am i going to get this thing out now and sometimes when you write and you're a little punchy
00:35:31 ◼ ► uh the writing is interesting yeah so i will read this in a second but like my my first thought thought
00:35:37 ◼ ► when i read this was is this to check that people are reading this like is this like a like a thing like is anyone
00:35:44 ◼ ► reading this i am always reading it and i got this i look numbers are not hold on i'm gonna stop you
00:35:50 ◼ ► one more time just to say look look numbers are boring and i try to make this column interesting and
00:35:54 ◼ ► i try to inject humor into it because because it's boring and uh i've done the boring part and this is
00:36:00 ◼ ► the part where i try to bring out some things that i think are interesting but also try to make it a
00:36:04 ◼ ► little bit funny because otherwise it's like death okay go ahead on the day that apple announces its
00:36:09 ◼ ► quarterly fiscal results as it did on thursday there's a little ritual that happens down in
00:36:14 ◼ ► cupertino financial journalists get a pre-briefing about the results from tim cook and they rush to
00:36:19 ◼ ► their live shots to breathlessly report the news or cnbc on cnbc or bloomberg business or fox business
00:36:24 ◼ ► from atop the apple park visitor center just as the announcement is posted publicly sometimes i imagine
00:36:30 ◼ ► that cook and cfo kevin park say goodbye to them jump in a car and just joyride all around apple park
00:36:37 ◼ ► doing donuts and singing out loud until they have to calm it down and get on the phone of financial
00:36:41 ◼ ► analysts about half an hour later yep yep yep i mean i have i've written so many leads about apple having
00:36:52 ◼ ► records that at this point this is the this is where my mind goes i loved it but i didn't know what was
00:36:57 ◼ ► this quarter this quarter is because there are a couple slam dunk moments in this girl i mentioned
00:37:01 ◼ ► later that i does tim cook dunk on people does kenny dunk because there are a couple moments in here
00:37:06 ◼ ► where i could hear them being like oh by the way also all this awesome thing that has never happened
00:37:14 ◼ ► before also is happening uh bye right like okay they they know it they know that this was a killer
00:37:21 ◼ ► quarter with a killer quarter yet to come talking about that so tim cook said we expect the december's
00:37:27 ◼ ► quarter december quarter's revenue to be the best ever for the company and the best ever for iphone
00:37:33 ◼ ► yeah amazing he didn't blow an air horn right then too right just like parak follows it up by saying
00:37:39 ◼ ► we expect our december quarter total company revenue to grow by 10 to 12 percent year over year which
00:37:46 ◼ ► would be our best quarter ever we expect iphone revenue to grow double digits year over year which
00:37:51 ◼ ► would be our best iphone quarter ever and you added just so we're clear that's about 138 billion dollars
00:37:58 ◼ ► in total revenue and a minimum of 76 billion dollars in iphone revenue which is astounding and my question
00:38:07 ◼ ► is why here's my answer they already know because the results only show the first week and a half of iphone
00:38:14 ◼ ► sales but they know the next month's iphone sales and they said they're supply constrained with iphone
00:38:20 ◼ ► models in a bunch of regions where they which means they literally sold more than they could make and
00:38:25 ◼ ► when somebody asked are you having trouble making them yeah uh tim cook was like nope it's like that we
00:38:31 ◼ ► just can't like this isn't he said this was the dunking moment he was like you know there isn't a ramp
00:38:37 ◼ ► up here it's just demand and and so why this year why these numbers apple is i would say after six
00:38:45 ◼ ► weeks or whatever of iphone sales iphone 17 cycle sales supremely confident that they're a hit that's
00:38:53 ◼ ► it i think more my question is like i just i wonder why this set of iphones yeah right is is resulting in
00:39:02 ◼ ► this now look i i've said myself like i've said it on this show i wrote about it too i think this
00:39:08 ◼ ► is the most compelling range of iphones that apple has ever produced like just as i agree here is our
00:39:15 ◼ ► range but just because i you know just because we think these things it doesn't always result in the
00:39:21 ◼ ► rest of the world it comes out here it doesn't necessarily go around the world and everybody else
00:39:25 ◼ ► goes yes yeah jason yes that's yeah i i think that's probably part of it i think um i think that for
00:39:31 ◼ ► all apple's pushing of you know titanium like there were the ads that last year were like oh
00:39:37 ◼ ► titanium uh from all the carriers and stuff uh i think that the or the orange phone i think the look
00:39:45 ◼ ► of the of the molded you know the the the unibody back yep uh on the on the pro model i think bringing
00:39:51 ◼ ► all of those pro features down to the the base model i think the intrigue of the air which i think you
00:39:58 ◼ ► know we talked about it in china is is potentially got some markets where that's intriguing and you
00:40:04 ◼ ► know maybe it's also that people there's a little bit of a super cycle happening where people have
00:40:09 ◼ ► have kind of their have not felt like there was enough there for them to update the last few years
00:40:14 ◼ ► and that this one they're like okay this is compelling enough and that they're they're they're
00:40:18 ◼ ► driving those people to update but i i just so you know it's probably complex and it's probably a lot
00:40:24 ◼ ► of that stuff but i do think it's really interesting that they very clearly are sending the signal here
00:40:30 ◼ ► that iphone sales are going great because otherwise they would not make apple is actually very conservative
00:40:36 ◼ ► with their guidance and since covid they've been even more conservative with their guidance so to say
00:40:41 ◼ ► this there was a time when apple like over like apple has always undercooked its guidance a little bit
00:40:47 ◼ ► and its guidance is closer to reality than it used to be but still you know even if they're not sandbagging
00:40:53 ◼ ► this like that's good because if they sandbagged it it would be if they were underselling it in other
00:40:59 ◼ ► words this would be uh even more like these numbers are astounding even if they're absolutely what apple
00:41:07 ◼ ► expects they are kind of astounding so apple apple has looked at at six weeks of sales and says this is a hit
00:41:13 ◼ ► i think that it is you know i'm sure for them interesting uh that they are having supply
00:41:20 ◼ ► issues like i think that that shows something right like apple is a company very good at making what they
00:41:27 ◼ ► need and maybe they were caught a little bit by surprise yeah well and and cook said this is not
00:41:35 ◼ ► the ramp right like that that is which is i know it's jargon but it's that idea of are you ramping up
00:41:42 ◼ ► like you know some companies they introduce a product and then it's like oh we can't make them fast enough
00:41:47 ◼ ► we're still trying to build capacity apple starts building them really early and they're at capacity
00:41:54 ◼ ► and that's so when when tim says you know this is not our there is not a ramp issue it's just we have
00:42:02 ◼ ► very strong demand and we're working very hard to fulfill all the orders that we have like that is
00:42:08 ◼ ► unusual for apple because they they ramped it they do that um but they are they are right now some of
00:42:15 ◼ ► that could be some of that could be surprise demand demand beyond their not not necessarily their
00:42:21 ◼ ► capacity but also that they're conservative in what they order because they want to see what the demand
00:42:25 ◼ ► is like and they got caught flat-footed because they under uh underestimated but again i think the
00:42:30 ◼ ► story there would not be that they underestimated it and that apple's bad at estimating and i thought it
00:42:35 ◼ ► was not going to be as good i think that is apple being surprised by the market because there is just
00:42:40 ◼ ► more demand if you want to view it that way i don't think it's apple being bad at estimating i mean i
00:42:44 ◼ ► guess technically it is but i think it's that apple uh that they all the signals here are strong and that
00:42:51 ◼ ► they couldn't match it you absolutely cannot get it right you can't like it does not matter how good apple
00:42:58 ◼ ► is you will not you cannot fully estimate consumer interest in your product right and keep in mind
00:43:07 ◼ ► what they do not want to do and is like a cardinal sin at tim cook's apple is build a bunch of stuff
00:43:12 ◼ ► that you are not going to be able to sell absolutely because they don't want inventory on demand they
00:43:16 ◼ ► ramp because they want to fulfill at a level that they expect they're there to be demand to but
00:43:22 ◼ ► remember apple at its best at its favorite is that once a product is out and sometimes it takes a week
00:43:29 ◼ ► sometimes it takes a month sometimes it takes three or six months depending but once a product is out
00:43:34 ◼ ► what they want to do as quickly as possible is to get in supply demand balance which literally means
00:43:39 ◼ ► every time somebody buys an iphone an iphone is made like that is the cycle they want and i know it's
00:43:44 ◼ ► way more complicated than that because you got to ship them and they're in different countries and all that
00:43:47 ◼ ► is true but like that's the goal is to never have a warehouse full of iphones that you're hoping will
00:43:54 ◼ ► sell in the next few months yeah and you balance that and that's why you have to estimate because
00:43:58 ◼ ► you've got to start ramping and building these things in july because you know that there or june or i don't
00:44:03 ◼ ► even know when they start building them because you know that when september hits they're going to be a
00:44:06 ◼ ► load of pre-orders and you're going to have to fulfill a pre-order spike and they get people in for the
00:44:11 ◼ ► holiday season so it's complicated but um also this puts a little different spin on the stories about
00:44:16 ◼ ► how apple is increasing some phones and decreasing some other phones like the that the air is not
00:44:23 ◼ ► getting you know maybe the way to look at this is is that it's not so much that the air has bad demand
00:44:30 ◼ ► but that the others have surprising demand also keeping in mind that china report that the air might be
00:44:36 ◼ ► finding demand in other countries than uh like china where it didn't go on sale right away so
00:44:42 ◼ ► there's a lot there's a lot going on here but this is it turns out this is it happens when they choose
00:44:48 ◼ ► to send the signal this is the really interesting thing about these results is not the numbers they
00:44:52 ◼ ► give you because with wall street it's always about the future right so it's not the numbers they
00:44:56 ◼ ► give you about this quarter it's that they felt confident enough to predict uh in their forward
00:45:02 ◼ ► looking information that you know might or might not happen that assumes a lot of things but like
00:45:07 ◼ ► with all of the caveats and footnotes and all of that they just said yeah we're going to set an
00:45:12 ◼ ► all-time record in iphone and overall apple revenue and we're going to blow it out and the only way
00:45:17 ◼ ► the only way that's true is if because because we can see the numbers that they disclosed right
00:45:23 ◼ ► but they know how the following four weeks went before they made this statement they know how it's going
00:45:29 ◼ ► and they said we're blowing it out so there you go they're going to blow it out yeah i mean we're
00:45:33 ◼ ► going to touch on apple intelligence a little bit later on in the show but you've got to imagine it
00:45:38 ◼ ► feels good for them at a time when wall street is looking at them unfavorably for apple intelligence
00:45:44 ◼ ► for them to be like yeah but you know what though we're selling more product than we've ever sold
00:45:48 ◼ ► so one thing i do about 30 minutes before the results come out i i turn on a financial news network
00:45:55 ◼ ► like cnbc which is why i put in that thing about the guy is always sort of breathlessly rushing back to
00:45:59 ◼ ► the visitor center uh to do his little thing where where he says i i talked i talked to tim cook and he
00:46:07 ◼ ► said these things that he's about to say in the financial call but i got it slightly before that
00:46:11 ◼ ► you know that kind of thing but they are enthusiastic about growth this is a thing that they do
00:46:18 ◼ ► um they are are painting a narrative this is this is but but when you talk about ai when you are looking
00:46:27 ◼ ► at the business channel narrative it's not the same narrative as apple's and that's fine it's i find it
00:46:32 ◼ ► instructive there are ai there's so many people who are pumping ai especially stocks and stuff right
00:46:39 ◼ ► this is the story of the economy right now is ai pumping and so i saw some really interesting
00:46:46 ◼ ► analysis where some some analysts were saying well you know the great thing about apple is that they
00:46:52 ◼ ► have a product that they sell and that that insulates them from their their ai lapses don't
00:46:58 ◼ ► really affect them as much because they have a product people want and there's truth in that there
00:47:03 ◼ ► really is truth in that and the fact is you can run ai stuff on iphones apple doesn't actually have
00:47:07 ◼ ► to provide it in the long run they they probably need to get there but you can you know you you can
00:47:13 ◼ ► use your iphone to do stuff and if you want to do ai stuff you can do that on your iphone and apple has
00:47:17 ◼ ► a real product to sell and i feel like that some of the analysts were getting to that point of saying
00:47:21 ◼ ► hey isn't this nice that this isn't just ai that's sort of bs hoping for the future but it's real
00:47:26 ◼ ► um at the same time some of those analysts then immediately toggle and they say but they still have
00:47:31 ◼ ► to do it by next year they still have to get on board like it's still and you know i don't know if
00:47:36 ◼ ► that's true or not everybody is acting as if it's true and i guess we'll find out if it's true but
00:47:41 ◼ ► i think the truth is right now that apple has real products that people want to buy and put in their
00:47:45 ◼ ► pocket and use and that is a strength because they're not selling ai futures this is not a company that is
00:47:52 ◼ ► built on promising ai futures now we can talk about again and have a lot especially not about well this
00:47:58 ◼ ► is the thing though is we can talk about whether they're going to pay for that later um and there are a
00:48:03 ◼ ► lot of scenarios where they are and there are a lot of scenarios where they will skate away
00:48:06 ◼ ► scot-free from all of that but the reality is i feel like it's almost like refreshing and
00:48:12 ◼ ► counterintuitive in a world where every other company result is about ai this or ai investment
00:48:18 ◼ ► or performance or whatever and then apple's like yeah we sold a lot of hardware and we're gonna do it
00:48:23 ◼ ► again and it's an understandable business um and then everybody else is like yeah yeah that's great
00:48:30 ◼ ► but they also need to do the ai thing tune in i'm sure they'll do it next year right like okay that's
00:48:34 ◼ ► the narrative that they want to put out there and we're going to talk about what apple's trying to do
00:48:38 ◼ ► there because you know apple again i think there are scenarios where a lot of this ai stuff kind of
00:48:43 ◼ ► evaporates and we realize that it's never going to get where they thought it would go and that it's
00:48:47 ◼ ► going to end up getting kind of put into chunks and put into features and and um and we may end up
00:48:54 ◼ ► building all this capacity in the cloud and then the models will get so good and and so focused that
00:48:59 ◼ ► we can just run them on our devices and again apple kind of wins in that scenario but um but it is
00:49:06 ◼ ► interesting to see the difference between what your average cnbc or bloomberg business person will say
00:49:11 ◼ ► where there's a real cognitive dissonance between wow look at this a company that makes things and
00:49:17 ◼ ► sells them at profit versus sort of all that kind of ai talk that is built in large part on spending
00:49:26 ◼ ► enormous amounts of money on the hope of an enormous payback down the road yeah if and when the bubble
00:49:31 ◼ ► bursts like apple is going to be in a scenario where they will be better off than a lot of their competitors
00:49:36 ◼ ► oh man apple i mean for those who have not followed apple through other bubbles bursting
00:49:40 ◼ ► one of the great things about apple and the way they approach the world and again this may be a reason
00:49:46 ◼ ► that they have been hurt in the ai it's that right like like apple's attitude has pros and cons but one
00:49:52 ◼ ► of the great things about apple being a kind of careful company is that when bubbles burst apple ends up
00:49:58 ◼ ► with as the song says all the money and apple is one of the great companies in the world at investing
00:50:07 ◼ ► through a downturn yeah and nobody if there's a if there's an ai bubble you know who's going to be
00:50:13 ◼ ► scooping up all the pieces of those ai companies that didn't make it and putting them at for cheap and
00:50:18 ◼ ► putting them inside it's going to be apple that's apple apple will absolutely be positioned
00:50:24 ◼ ► to accelerate when other companies are decelerating and that that's been one of their advantages over
00:50:31 ◼ ► the years um again that that approach has disadvantages too but do you want to you want
00:50:36 ◼ ► to mention my my spooky thing about the mac because they did they did offer a scary spooky day before
00:50:41 ◼ ► halloween warning for uh for mac revenue tough tough compare so the mac revenue has been great and it's
00:50:46 ◼ ► been great for two straight years basically they've been growing year over year but they did say
00:50:50 ◼ ► um this quarter all we've really got i mean the way he said it it was almost like the island of misfit
00:50:58 ◼ ► toys kind of thing where i was like last year we were updated like all the macs last in the in the fall
00:51:04 ◼ ► quarter we updated all the macs we had so many of them and this year well you know we've got the
00:51:09 ◼ ► 14 inch mac m5 macbook pro you know so that's a tough compare that guy and he's not wrong he's not wrong
00:51:16 ◼ ► they literally i mean you know what what drives sales is generally as new models and they're going
00:51:21 ◼ ► and and remember what drives those bar charts is comparison with the previous year so what he's
00:51:27 ◼ ► saying there is look we sold a lot of macs in the year ago quarter holiday quarter because we had a lot
00:51:32 ◼ ► of new macs on sale and that's not happening this year so that's going to be bad so get ready so when we
00:51:38 ◼ ► are clutching our pearls in three months about mac sales being down we were warned that it was a tough
00:51:44 ◼ ► compare and i believe them and services uh you know we mentioned its results it was its 13th
00:51:51 ◼ ► consecutive quarterly revenue growth and ninth consecutive double digit growth uh this also
00:51:57 ◼ ► led to one of your favorite moments on the call uh tim cook was asked to give more information about
00:52:03 ◼ ► how much of this money like was apple's ads and like how right which includes google yeah it's the
00:52:09 ◼ ► google search right so it's like the first party ads versus third party ads and really what they're
00:52:13 ◼ ► saying there is how much is the ads that you do and google yeah and tim cook said i'm dodging the
00:52:19 ◼ ► question intentionally because we don't split it at that level yeah incredible it was a it was you know
00:52:27 ◼ ► he said the quiet part out loud we all know that that he's doing it it was funny too because he actually
00:52:33 ◼ ► said we don't divulge and like and the divulge like trailed off he's like divulge you just stopped
00:52:45 ◼ ► that level that's what he said but he's like we don't divulge that to you it's what it means we're
00:52:49 ◼ ► not talking about that i mean if we're supposed to believe all the testimony that's been given
00:52:54 ◼ ► i believe tim cook doesn't know the number was an answer that he gave once he's like there's no way
00:53:00 ◼ ► i could know this no one tells me nothing that was a pretty good question um wamsi mohan from bank of
00:53:06 ◼ ► america gets the gold star for the analyst that question this time because what he was basically
00:53:09 ◼ ► saying is he was trying he it was a good good try it was a good try because he was asking like three
00:53:15 ◼ ► levels down about what the google revenue was because what he was saying is there's a lot of talk that
00:53:21 ◼ ► search standard search is slowing down because of ai search and you have a large revenue component
00:53:30 ◼ ► in services in your advertising category that you don't break out but apparently it's in advertising
00:53:35 ◼ ► internally that is google search results you know ad revenue basically the the it's your google rev share
00:53:42 ◼ ► deal so is that growing or is it not and so he's trying to frame it in a way where it's about growth
00:53:49 ◼ ► and it's not specifically about about google and what cook said is yes that the advertising category
00:53:57 ◼ ► is growing and then wamsi mohan was like does and he says and it's the third party and the first party
00:54:04 ◼ ► it set a record during the quarter and wamsi mohan said so is that does do you mean that internal and
00:54:09 ◼ ► external both set records and tim's like no i'm not going to answer that one yep so but nice it's funny
00:54:18 ◼ ► though already because you said like you know uh there's a lot of talk about uh search revenue going
00:54:23 ◼ ► down part of that is eddie q's for four eddie q started this conversation yeah i'm sure that somebody
00:54:30 ◼ ► there was rolling their eyes and being like eddie i don't know man i don't think any of those those
00:54:36 ◼ ► guys are going up on that stand without knowing exactly what they're gonna say it's hard to imagine
00:54:41 ◼ ► that it's hard to imagine that so basically yes apple's not going to go out of business
00:54:44 ◼ ► and get ready for a blowout uh holiday quarter um actually the the biggest the biggest takeaway from
00:54:51 ◼ ► this entire thing is what we've been saying which is the confidence apple has in how iphone 17
00:54:57 ◼ ► sales are going is very clear that they they are surprised by the level of demand and they're going
00:55:04 ◼ ► to blow it out next quarter in iphone sales and that's that's the and and the yes services also
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00:57:11 ◼ ► of this show and relay rumor roundup time yeah i have a couple of rumors that we missed that i
00:57:19 ◼ ► wanted to enter into the roundup because you know if we don't talk about them here they're not real
00:57:23 ◼ ► uh real yeah mark german is reporting that apple is preparing to launch its first touchscreen mac book
00:57:30 ◼ ► pro in late 2026 or early 2027 there had been some previous reporting uh on this from ming chi quo
00:57:36 ◼ ► that i really messed up on a previous episode that we fixed uh later on in a in a further episode but
00:57:42 ◼ ► now this will be the official record going forward this machine will feature an m6 chip and will be
00:57:47 ◼ ► lighter and thinner than the current models of macbook pro that it will replace uh the screen itself will
00:57:53 ◼ ► be an oled panel as well as a touchscreen with a hole punch camera instead of a notch um it will
00:57:59 ◼ ► apparently work similarly to the dynamic island i wonder and kind of hope that what mark means here is
00:58:05 ◼ ► that it will be kind of dynamic islandy like notifications and stuff might appear from that
00:58:11 ◼ ► area of the screen i think that would be a fun thing to add to the mac um this macbook oh we've
00:58:16 ◼ ► got a no face id though that is still years away so it would just be the camera um apple has been
00:58:21 ◼ ► working on a new hinge to minimize the amount of movement of the screen when interacting with the
00:58:27 ◼ ► touchscreen i thought that's an interesting detail right because if you're tapping it you don't want
00:58:31 ◼ ► the screen to just be like pushed further away from you uh so you kind of got to think about that as
00:58:37 ◼ ► well which i thought was an interesting detail uh this macbook pro will most likely cost more than the
00:58:42 ◼ ► current one because the parts will be more expensive uh and mark says that apple is not currently developing
00:58:48 ◼ ► any other touchscreen macs as they want to see how people react to this model first i have no idea why
00:58:54 ◼ ► they think people would react negatively like oh people might not like these touchscreens that's a
00:59:00 ◼ ► newfangled technology yeah it's very rare confusing i don't know i mean we we've been talking about for so
00:59:09 ◼ ► long and i mean i don't know i'm sure that they ran their calculations and that they here here's the
00:59:13 ◼ ► thing apple's analysis is different right apple's analysis is just different of stuff like this and
00:59:21 ◼ ► all of us are like oh touchscreen max you could do stuff with that and everybody else all the pcs have
00:59:26 ◼ ► touchscreens yeah and why doesn't apple and it's a joke and and apple's so behind the times here
00:59:31 ◼ ► apple would probably tell you that if you look at how laptop users use touch it's not that important
00:59:40 ◼ ► and that it doesn't get used that much and so it's hard for them to justify adding cost and thickness
00:59:48 ◼ ► and whatever complexity in and i think that there's truth in that i think that touchscreens on laptops
00:59:56 ◼ ► especially laptops you can't convert into tablets is kind of it's not unimportant but it's not that
01:00:03 ◼ ► important as somebody i mean i've told this story before we had a chromebook for jamie that was a
01:00:08 ◼ ► a touch screen and i used it quite a bit too and and even with my ipad when i've gotten the keyboard
01:00:13 ◼ ► like it's just so easy and everybody's used to touching a screen and i don't use it for mousing
01:00:18 ◼ ► i use it for scrolling or tapping on a button because your brain is like i can just yeah i can just tap on
01:00:24 ◼ ► the screen and do this thing and it's easy and and it's second nature to me so i i could defend
01:00:30 ◼ ► apple's decision to be reluctant to go down this path because they didn't they they thought it adds a lot
01:00:37 ◼ ► complexity and our users don't actually in the end they won't get a lot from it just because everybody
01:00:43 ◼ ► else did it that's not enough of a reason it makes them look bad but i feel like if apple felt like it
01:00:50 ◼ ► was existential they would have done it a long time ago and they felt like they could still sell lots
01:00:55 ◼ ► and lots of laptops without that feature and and essentially nobody would care and i think that's true
01:01:06 ◼ ► apple's move is usually well we didn't just do a touch screen we added this thing that whoa and blows
01:01:13 ◼ ► your mind that right so what is that because i i have a hard time saying oh it's got a touch screen now
01:01:18 ◼ ► look you can scroll wow apple oh my god scroll on a screen what so what is that thing i think is a more
01:01:27 ◼ ► interesting question because i i think the truth is that touch screens on laptops is a good idea
01:01:32 ◼ ► but um and and that apple's saying oh zombie arms and you know you don't want to manipulate like i think
01:01:40 ◼ ► there i think that's true but it doesn't make it not nice to have a touch screen especially since and
01:01:46 ◼ ► i think this is my most important reason you put a touch screen on a macbook pro is every screen that's
01:01:53 ◼ ► near your body that you can touch will receive your touch yeah except for mac laptops and and i know
01:02:02 ◼ ► it's not ideal and i know it's not going to get a lot of intense use most people are not going to spend
01:02:06 ◼ ► their time touching a screen instead of using their keyboard and their trackpad on their laptop but
01:02:12 ◼ ► it does happen and why not just do it if it's not too much trouble and if you've got a clever idea
01:02:19 ◼ ► to make it even better all the better i wonder what that would be yeah my thinking on it is the
01:02:26 ◼ ► same as it's always been it's just a nice to have it's just an option it's just nice and she said like
01:02:31 ◼ ► i am used to touching screens all the time i i use a product that is apple makes that is essentially a
01:02:37 ◼ ► laptop the ipad pro and i touch the screen even when i have the keyboard in it right and like that's the
01:02:42 ◼ ► way i use that product so why why can i not do that on my laptop and i have i have touched a macbook
01:02:48 ◼ ► screen oh i have done it a few times right where it's like oh especially having used the if you use
01:02:54 ◼ ► another device that's got it in a configuration like a laptop then and the ipad qualifies then i'm like
01:03:00 ◼ ► because because i do that all the time on the ipad like again i've got a keyboard and a trackpad but
01:03:05 ◼ ► maybe my hands aren't on the keyboard and trackpad and i'm just looking at a screen and a dialogue box
01:03:09 ◼ ► comes up and i just go tap or i i'm reading something my hands are off the screen off of the
01:03:15 ◼ ► keyboard and i can either choose to just reach out and do this to scroll or like flick my finger
01:03:20 ◼ ► or i can put my hands down and orient on the trackpad and put two fingers down and do it that like that
01:03:26 ◼ ► those are the kind of situations where we're all just kind of used to this it's not my point is it's not
01:03:32 ◼ ► for most people going to be a remotely transformative productivity productivity feature but at some
01:03:39 ◼ ► point you just need to have it there because all of us are used to touching screens and it needs to do
01:03:44 ◼ ► something yeah maybe i don't know no i know i do not understand enough about how screens are made but
01:03:50 ◼ ► there is a part of me that wonders like a certain point does it become more hard to make an oled screen
01:03:54 ◼ ► that is not a touch screen like or like is there less availability of screens up to apple standards
01:04:00 ◼ ► yeah uh like i'm i'm sure that there are some i mean sure i'm sure some of it is just kind of like
01:04:06 ◼ ► dogma of like we don't do that yeah i i'm sure part of it is the way apple constructs their laptop
01:04:14 ◼ ► screens to do this is going to require a rethinking of things that they weren't willing to do yeah and
01:04:19 ◼ ► with this generation they built the concept in and is it price or thickness or just the technology
01:04:25 ◼ ► involved or did they just have a change of heart in the last five years since they introduced the
01:04:29 ◼ ► last macbook pro design four and a half five it'll be it'll be like almost six years by the time this
01:04:34 ◼ ► model comes out and you know where it's a completely new design and sometime in that six years they're
01:04:39 ◼ ► like yeah let's just put it in there people are used to it also we have uh a lot of mac apps now
01:04:47 ◼ ► that are um ipad apps yeah like they're not as many as you would think but like those are out there
01:04:53 ◼ ► and uh all those understand touch natively and that's a quick win and maybe they're like ah
01:05:03 ◼ ► uh we have some uh breaking news here um okay and that stephen hackett just text me uh apple has
01:05:13 ◼ ► created a new sonic logo along with the logo for apple tv it is composed by phineas uh billy alish's
01:05:21 ◼ ► uh brother and and like composer uh it has a very different sound maybe we can put that sound into the
01:05:29 ◼ ► podcast jason what do you think about that as a as a possibility of a thing that we could do
01:05:44 ◼ ► it's a good sound it's still got that kind of like apple sound like it still sounds like an apple kind
01:05:57 ◼ ► of like warning sound kind of thing oh yeah you know not you know not warning like booting sound
01:06:04 ◼ ► or whatever yeah it's got a little back back masking going on in it there's a lot of stuff going on in
01:06:09 ◼ ► there so there you go hope people enjoyed that exciting audio logo yep but the vibrancy continues
01:06:16 ◼ ► mike the vibrancy is actually very vibrant the the identity continues to vibrate very vibrant
01:06:21 ◼ ► uh but it's not just the macbook pro that will get an oled panel according to mark german apple is
01:06:28 ◼ ► developing displays oled displays for the macbook air the ipad air and the ipad mini the ipad mini is
01:06:34 ◼ ► actually expected to be the first of these to get the upgrade as early as 2026 apple has also tested
01:06:41 ◼ ► making this waterproof uh yeah to make this work apple has been working on a new speaker system to
01:06:47 ◼ ► remove the holes on the device and they would use some kind of vibration technology instead for for
01:06:52 ◼ ► audio it's basically a reading device for a lot of people and the kindle's been most kindles many
01:06:58 ◼ ► most kindles have been waterproof for a long time now um so i think this is a i think this is an area
01:07:04 ◼ ► where they feel that they're lacking and that they could they could benefit from given how this device
01:07:09 ◼ ► is used to get it to be waterproof i think that would be really great yeah or what or is it going to be
01:07:15 ◼ ► waterproof or is it going to be like the iphone where it's like it's water resistant but if if it
01:07:20 ◼ ► breaks because you put it in water um we're not going yes it will probably be waterproof in the way
01:07:25 ◼ ► that an iphone is waterproof yeah so so you wouldn't want to just toss it in the bathtub but if you dropped
01:07:31 ◼ ► in the bathtub or splashed it uh it would probably survive my thinking is like or apple is apple trying
01:07:37 ◼ ► to build what is essentially a high-end kindle right where it's like you would sit by the pool with this
01:07:41 ◼ ► with no problem you're going to get splashed it's going to be no problem like that that kind of idea
01:07:45 ◼ ► as long as it's bright enough as long as the anti-glare is enough those are the the real issues
01:07:49 ◼ ► versus the kindle is the kindle is readable in bright sunlight um so if they can do that along
01:07:54 ◼ ► with this then then yes i think because i think that's a use case for the ipad mini right it gets
01:07:58 ◼ ► it gets used a lot as a as a ultra portable reader like that uh the the ipad air will get another lcd
01:08:07 ◼ ► update before it gets an oled and that will probably be in the spring of next year sure mac rumors is
01:08:12 ◼ ► reporting that apple may be getting ready to announce ipad versions of four existing professional
01:08:17 ◼ ► mac apps they have discovered app store ids for pixelmeter pro which is the image editor photoshop
01:08:25 ◼ ► like app that is available for the mac there is a pixelmeter app of on ipad which is in desperate need of an
01:08:33 ◼ ► update and so a pixelmeter pro uh would do that i love pixelmeter pro on my mac i hope to get a good
01:08:38 ◼ ► version on the ipad and i mean apple owns them so yes they should do that and then also compressor
01:08:45 ◼ ► which is a video and audio compressor app which is a final cut companion app on the mac motion which is
01:08:51 ◼ ► another final cut companion for creating visual effects and main stage which is a companion app
01:08:56 ◼ ► for logic pro for producing live performances now my wonder here is does this signal maybe some bigger
01:09:03 ◼ ► updates coming to final cut and logic and i also wonder how companion apps like these would work
01:09:09 ◼ ► on the ipad compared to the mac because they're very much hand in hand these applications compressor
01:09:14 ◼ ► motion and main stage feels to me like apple is building a pro app bundle yeah remember because
01:09:24 ◼ ► because like final cut pro on ipad is a subscription and logic pro on ipad is a subscription and those
01:09:31 ◼ ► apps on mac are not currently um so this could be a pro bundle on ipad also this could be the moment
01:09:40 ◼ ► where apple unveils its new pro apps bundle across all its devices and you subscribe and you get it
01:09:46 ◼ ► everywhere which i feel like is coming i mean final cut and logic i mean maybe they'd still make a
01:09:51 ◼ ► version available that you could buy or something although i don't know i mean i i feel like they
01:09:55 ◼ ► have been laying the groundwork for those becoming subscription apps and to the credit of the developers of
01:10:00 ◼ ► final cut and logic they do update them regularly yeah and then you pay once and then you don't pay
01:10:06 ◼ ► again for years so i can see that that answers the question right of why did they buy pixel meter
01:10:10 ◼ ► so they have another app for this bundle right a bundle pro a pro a creative professional bundle
01:10:16 ◼ ► that runs across mac and ipad yeah with a photo app a video app an audio app and they they have
01:10:22 ◼ ► begun to construct or have constructed um a pro bundle and you buy it and maybe you buy the individuals
01:10:29 ◼ ► or maybe they just sell it as a bundle i don't know how adobe they want to be about this yeah but
01:10:34 ◼ ► that's that's interesting interesting how they'll how they'll approach that but that that would be my
01:10:39 ◼ ► guess is that this will be a pro bundle of creative apps on all of apple's platforms and that includes
01:10:45 ◼ ► all their creative apps on the on the mac as well including pixel meter according to weibo account
01:10:52 ◼ ► instant digital apple is planning on making changes to how the camera control button works for the iphone
01:10:57 ◼ ► 18 the capacitive layer will be removed leaving just a pressure sensor instead now i'm sure when people
01:11:05 ◼ ► read these headlines they hear these clips they're like oh they're going to get rid of the swipe
01:11:09 ◼ ► from the camera control but no that's not how it works this doesn't actually mean that they would
01:11:14 ◼ ► have to remove the swiping gestures there are other phones on the market right now that are doing swipe
01:11:20 ◼ ► sensing motions on similar buttons from just using the pressure sensor layer so it could be that apple has
01:11:28 ◼ ► just come to work out the way to make this work maybe they're happy with a little less reliability on
01:11:33 ◼ ► something that people were not using very much and having just one sensor so just having the pressure sensor as well
01:11:44 ◼ ► apparently camera control is not only expensive to make it's also very expensive to repair it's actually causing repair in price increases for the iphones
01:11:52 ◼ ► my hope is that they remove the actual physical click motion required to take the images which is the thing i mentioned before and so i will now add in here instant digital
01:12:04 ◼ ► same account has claimed that the 2027 iphone line which is probably going to be the iphone 20 will finally see the removal of all moving buttons replacing them with solid state
01:12:18 ◼ ► haptic buttons on the iphone instead this was something that was heavily rumored to be coming to the iphone 15 in 2022
01:12:25 ◼ ► but instead we got a physically moving action button to our surprise this is a quote from mac rumors according to the leaker
01:12:33 ◼ ► apple solid state button design has been completed as sorry it has completed functional verification
01:12:38 ◼ ► and includes haptic feedback for the side button volume buttons action button and camera control
01:12:45 ◼ ► i think this could go well i mean i think apple has shown that they are very good at making fake buttons that feel real
01:12:53 ◼ ► like the airpods pro or trackpads and stuff like that like i would have in theory no problem with this uh as a system what do you think
01:13:02 ◼ ► late generation iphone home button too right yes iphone home button yeah very good call yeah
01:13:07 ◼ ► went haptic yep and uh nobody really noticed and it was fine and they eliminated a moving part
01:13:13 ◼ ► i'm okay i mean it's all in the execution but i'm okay with the idea and that that saves a lot of
01:13:18 ◼ ► of of price and uh water ingress and whatever else is going on like it it reduces a lot i also think
01:13:26 ◼ ► the camera control i don't know i one of these days i want to know what the story is there because it sounds
01:13:31 ◼ ► to me like maybe that was the action button was supposed to be the camera control button and then
01:13:35 ◼ ► they introduced the action button and then they decided to leave the action button and make another
01:13:39 ◼ ► camera control button and they in two years they added two physical buttons to the iphone which seems
01:13:44 ◼ ► weird for a company that seems like dedicated on uh the premise of getting rid of buttons instead they
01:13:50 ◼ ► turned around and added buttons i i think everybody well not everybody many people would agree i would
01:13:57 ◼ ► believe that the camera control button was way over engineered too complicated overshot in all aspects
01:14:06 ◼ ► and that a simpler space where you could open the camera button open the camera app and take a picture
01:14:12 ◼ ► is kind of all you need here and if that is a if that's apple's experiment with what if we take a button
01:14:18 ◼ ► and make it all just down to kind of being pressure sensitive uh and not a real button anymore
01:14:28 ◼ ► there are a couple of areas that i don't as one that i think would be frustrating and one i don't
01:14:34 ◼ ► understand about going to all solid state buttons one is like because you reminded me with the with
01:14:40 ◼ ► the home button you know like you would not be able to potentially control the volume of your iphone when
01:14:45 ◼ ► it's in your pocket or if you have gloves or whatever because it can't read the sensors if it's pressure
01:14:49 ◼ ► sensitive and not capacitive you could right you would be searching for a specific level of this is all the
01:14:56 ◼ ► this is all the execution right is like what are the use cases that you're covering and how are you
01:15:00 ◼ ► covering them and how are you right now a button can be pressed accidentally so it's not like you need
01:15:05 ◼ ► to make it so the button can't be pressed accidentally by enough force yes but you do need to make it that
01:15:10 ◼ ► ideally yeah if it's in your pants pocket and you just squeeze the volume button the volume goes down
01:15:15 ◼ ► right but there would have to have that some pressure because how on earth would you turn an iphone on
01:15:19 ◼ ► if the iphone is off that that's the hard hard reset and turn on is one of those questions like how do you
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01:17:39 ◼ ► mark i want to continue talking about uh rumors but about apple intelligence specifically
01:17:47 ◼ ► mark german is reporting that apple continues to struggle with the siri upgrades coming next year
01:17:53 ◼ ► while reporting on more departures from apple's ai division from researchers to engineers to executives
01:18:01 ◼ ► mark says that internally there is concern over the quality of the new apple apple intelligence powered siri
01:18:08 ◼ ► from those that are testing it and he uh fear he uh not fears he suggests this may lead to even more
01:18:15 ◼ ► departures if it comes out and is a failure like i said for a while now these people leaving if
01:18:21 ◼ ► everybody at apple looks at their work and says this isn't good enough i would leave yeah right like
01:18:25 ◼ ► i'm in a hot category i'm not being appreciated and i'm not saying they're wrong they may be right
01:18:30 ◼ ► but this is one reason you you see people leaving that team is that the bosses of have left and also
01:18:35 ◼ ► the team has been condemned for not doing good enough work and that can be either because of the work not
01:18:41 ◼ ► being good enough or that they're not given the yeah constraints pull it on them yeah by apple for sure
01:18:48 ◼ ► right that's that's a potential reason uh mark is also reporting that apple is quote paying google to
01:18:54 ◼ ► create a custom gemini uh based model so a custom gemini based model that can run on its private cloud
01:19:01 ◼ ► servers and help power siri so google was the winner of an internal bake-off between them and
01:19:07 ◼ ► anthropic we spoke about this before right the app one of the paths that apple was looking to take
01:19:11 ◼ ► was to bring in an external model to be the kind of the underpinnings because their models weren't good
01:19:16 ◼ ► enough to power something like siri however it was the financials that won the day it was believed that
01:19:28 ◼ ► um and so the apple ended up going with google for gemini uh mark german doesn't expect that this
01:19:35 ◼ ► will be a public facing relationship like it's not going to apple and google are not going to come out
01:19:40 ◼ ► on stage and announce this deal together yeah this is a what this is a white label for the model running
01:19:46 ◼ ► on private cloud compute is the idea here is that it will actually be a modified custom google gemini
01:19:52 ◼ ► based uh compiled to run on apple's servers which are on apple silicon instead of on what wherever
01:19:58 ◼ ► google is running its servers whatever platforms it's on and that um and that that will just be so
01:20:04 ◼ ► instead of apple foundation model it'll be running a version of gemini white labeled they won't talk
01:20:09 ◼ ► about it and that's what you get when you go to the private cloud and this is i mean this is one
01:20:14 ◼ ► again no regardless of the partners so this idea that anthropic was more expensive like apple's got
01:20:20 ◼ ► an existing relationship with google so you could even argue that it's not going to cost anything
01:20:24 ◼ ► it'll cost in like credits against the search revenue or whatever like but that also it's like
01:20:32 ◼ ► this is a this is like white label you're asking companies that are ai and are building lots of other
01:20:38 ◼ ► things to build a custom version of their model for your silicon in your data center like
01:20:44 ◼ ► anthropic would be like yeah we could do that but what are we going to charge them like and and set
01:20:48 ◼ ► a number that apple was like oh no no and google might be more hungry about like yeah we'll take
01:20:53 ◼ ► that and we're going to own the models that smartphones are using and that'll be good for us
01:20:57 ◼ ► it also allows apple to swap the models out at any time if they want to and if they build a model of
01:21:03 ◼ ► their own that they like they can put that in there and this is one of those advantages that apple has
01:21:07 ◼ ► apple doesn't necessarily have to own the ai model to have ai features i'm sure they would like to right
01:21:15 ◼ ► but one the era we live in right now you've got all these ai companies enormous investing enormous
01:21:21 ◼ ► amounts of money in model development as well as cloud infrastructure and if apple says well we've we're
01:21:28 ◼ ► investing in our cloud infrastructure but our model development isn't so hot right now uh but we'll you know
01:21:34 ◼ ► we'll pay you to use your model on our our stuff like that kind of gets apple what it wants in the
01:21:39 ◼ ► short term yeah i don't know what to make of all this i you know it's hard to to make an assessment on
01:21:46 ◼ ► this when we don't have all the information right was was anthropics cost astronomically different to
01:21:53 ◼ ► google right or like was it going to be more complicated or you know was the cost way higher than
01:21:58 ◼ ► the capability difference right but but i yeah i just feel like i want to hear apple's going with
01:22:05 ◼ ► the best capability partner rather than the best financial partner for this product like i feel like
01:22:13 ◼ ► with hearing things like this and just that apple is still like you know apple has to rely on someone
01:22:19 ◼ ► else i'm happy that they're doing that if it means the product's good but also it's like
01:22:23 ◼ ► shouldn't you be able to do this like you know like well this is this is a question of apple's view
01:22:32 ◼ ► of ai in general and their priorities here is that you could argue that they got in this place because
01:22:40 ◼ ► they are not real deep believers in ai and that could be a mistake or they could be right i think it's
01:22:48 ◼ ► still to all kind of out there i think i think they're behind because they made some assumptions
01:22:53 ◼ ► about ai's utility that were proven wrong but i think there's also an open question about whether
01:22:59 ◼ ► everybody's agreement that ai is going to be everything in the future may be overhyped let's just put it that
01:23:05 ◼ ► way um so do they look at this and say well we can spend a lot of money on anthropic is it worth it
01:23:16 ◼ ► when we've got this other deal with google that's pretty much as good or or maybe their thought is
01:23:22 ◼ ► if we do this deal with google we will be on parody with android and that's all that is required right
01:23:28 ◼ ► we don't need to be better than android we just need to be a parody with them and this gets us there
01:23:32 ◼ ► and then we're fine and we can kind of go on our way and maybe we come back to anthropic later
01:23:36 ◼ ► i also could throw in like you know maybe they don't want to prop up anthropic because they got
01:23:41 ◼ ► their eye on them and if anthropic uh loses a bunch of uh deals then they're going to be ripe for the
01:23:46 ◼ ► for the pickings i don't know um but uh but yes it is not a great look to have a report that says
01:23:53 ◼ ► apple tested a bunch of ai models and the one that was the best is not the one they went with yeah
01:23:58 ◼ ► because they went with one that was cheaper i mean to be fair it is google gemini and i think that
01:24:03 ◼ ► there are a lot of smart people who would say that google seems like the most likely winner of the ai
01:24:09 ◼ ► race because they are google and they've got a lot of advantages even though open ai has so much money
01:24:16 ◼ ► i don't follow this like nearly as close as someone like federico right like but from my understanding
01:24:22 ◼ ► it just seems like what model is best changes on like a fortnightly basis yeah yeah and that's one
01:24:28 ◼ ► of the reasons i think that apple going with the white label is maybe a good idea in the long run
01:24:33 ◼ ► here's the i read a i read a piece over it might have even been a ben thompson piece but i was
01:24:38 ◼ ► reading some stuff about ai over the weekend and one of the things about the ai bubble and about people
01:24:44 ◼ ► spending lots of money on ai and investing in all this stuff is a bunch of very powerful big companies
01:24:52 ◼ ► with lots of money are trying to grab the the win like the winning condition which is uh general
01:25:00 ◼ ► intelligence it's like building the ultimate model and while i appreciate ai as a thing that can make
01:25:09 ◼ ► features cool not only do i not believe that general intelligence is really a thing that's going to
01:25:15 ◼ ► happen and emerge from an llm i don't actually believe that even if i spot you that it will emerge
01:25:23 ◼ ► i have zero belief that it will emerge at one company and all the other companies won't get it
01:25:32 ◼ ► immediately after and that's i think one of the problems i have with the ai investment is i think
01:25:38 ◼ ► there is an underlying belief that whoever gets there first is going to own it and i just don't think
01:25:42 ◼ ► that's going to be true yeah and if you're apple you know this this is an advantage because if it
01:25:50 ◼ ► doesn't matter because there's always another model out there and you can just partner with whoever has a
01:25:54 ◼ ► good model and you're never really behind even if you're never really ahead it's just fine is that
01:26:01 ◼ ► enough for apple like maybe i don't know i i because i i remain very skeptical not my skepticism of ai is
01:26:10 ◼ ► tempered i i i'm really skeptical on the idea that there's a wall that's going to be built
01:26:15 ◼ ► on ai that's based on like the model that gets built i can see the wall being built in terms of your
01:26:22 ◼ ► server capacity and your all the gpus you got and all of that but i'm telling you in the long run if it's
01:26:27 ◼ ► an arms race for hardware capacity to run a model apple will be there apple can spend the money
01:26:32 ◼ ► apple builds its own silicon it can do that it can it's already started to do that i and i am skeptical
01:26:40 ◼ ► of the idea of like how unique these models are because like you said all you have to do is follow
01:26:46 ◼ ► people who follow this stuff and there's always another model that's got another novel thing a model
01:26:51 ◼ ► at this scale for a device a model at this scale for a small cloud novel at huge scale it just keeps on
01:26:57 ◼ ► changing and it's i mean it's fun and exciting that there's such an arms race but it also tells me that
01:27:01 ◼ ► you know if somebody gets to the end there's always another thing beyond the end there's never really an
01:27:07 ◼ ► end and that somebody else is going to get there too and so it's going to be very much like a commodity
01:27:13 ◼ ► on that level and and i think that apple benefits if that's the case so i don't have a problem with
01:27:18 ◼ ► like other than the pummeling apple takes in in the public image i suppose if they you know they
01:27:25 ◼ ► they haven't built their own model they're using somebody else's but i would say that most of the
01:27:28 ◼ ► people if if apple has a good useful model and it's white labeled so they don't even know it's
01:27:33 ◼ ► coming from google nobody's going to care uh tim cook said to cnbc as part of the like the i think
01:27:40 ◼ ► the the result stuff that apple are quite making good progress on their efforts and that they expect
01:27:46 ◼ ► to release these features next year at least he isn't still they're not still saying in the coming
01:27:51 ◼ ► year which i was saying yeah a little bit well we're almost we're almost at that year now so the coming
01:27:55 ◼ ► year is almost here so yes he did finally just say it's next year like they're gonna do it next year
01:28:00 ◼ ► that's that's what they put down and now they really have to have to deliver and maybe that's the source of
01:28:06 ◼ ► the confidence is that they've got this ai deal with google and and and they're happy about how that's
01:28:12 ◼ ► going to go so um i wanted to just very quickly run back through again the features that we have seen
01:28:22 ◼ ► but have not shipped right stuff that show up at wwdc this is uh syrian screen awareness so this is your
01:28:28 ◼ ► phone you know being able to take actions on things that are on the screen so you could just talk to your
01:28:33 ◼ ► phone and be like archive this email or whatever uh also actions across apps so you could say like
01:28:40 ◼ ► take this email and upload it to slacks or whatever and your phone should just be able to understand how
01:28:45 ◼ ► to do all that and then the big one was personal contacts as well so learning what you do and you're
01:28:50 ◼ ► able to answer questions about what's on your device that was the whole when is my mom's flight
01:28:55 ◼ ► arriving right uh thing it's it's able to build a an agent basically that has access to it and we've seen
01:29:02 ◼ ► this right this is like a gpt or something the idea that there's a there when federico uploads all his
01:29:07 ◼ ► reviews or or whatever or his notion or his obsidian or whatever like it's the idea that there's a
01:29:12 ◼ ► personal data trove that you have and then you you're asking the model to query the contents like you know
01:29:20 ◼ ► about all this stuff now do stuff with it and if you can do that on device it's really powerful because
01:29:27 ◼ ► and and it's hard to do that in in the cloud because you would actually need to upload it to
01:29:32 ◼ ► private cloud compute and and that's a lot of data so what you want is some parsing to happen on device
01:29:37 ◼ ► but that's that's the dream right is that you your phone knows about your stuff and then the llm that's
01:29:43 ◼ ► running can make um distinctions based on your stuff and ideally the model could potentially and i know
01:29:51 ◼ ► this is wild i don't think they've talked about it but ideally the model could query your personal
01:29:55 ◼ ► context get a bunch of related data out and then send that in a query to the private cloud yeah and
01:30:00 ◼ ► have it process it right you could have a a kind of cherry picking your personal data model on device
01:30:06 ◼ ► that then kicks it to the more powerful model to process it and and intuit things about it there's
01:30:11 ◼ ► lots of ways you could do this it's a great idea it was a great idea in 2024 when they showed it but
01:30:15 ◼ ► they gotta they gotta do it is the is the challenge there so i'm just gonna make a little prediction
01:30:20 ◼ ► these three things that i've spoken about we will see ios 27 before all three of them ship
01:30:26 ◼ ► i think you might be right it's all part of in the coming year right i believe they will have stuff
01:30:33 ◼ ► like i believe they will have in the spring like it has been rumored but i don't think all of these
01:30:37 ◼ ► things and i think particularly the personal context thing we may never see that like that feels such a
01:30:45 ◼ ► big thing more more personal siri can mean a lot of things to a lot of people yeah so we'll see how it
01:30:52 ◼ ► goes uh i wanted to just give a a couple of notes on the dual knit band so apple sent me a dual knit band
01:31:00 ◼ ► for review um and i just i tried it out today at my my vision pro lives at the studio and i have not been
01:31:06 ◼ ► here uh until today uh but i spent some time wearing it and using my vision pro it is a hefty
01:31:12 ◼ ► piece of equipment the joint band like as soon as you pick it up like on its own you take out the
01:31:17 ◼ ► very elaborate packaging that it comes in it's like this is a unit of a thing um the adjustment system
01:31:24 ◼ ► that's the winner to me like it is absolutely the most intuitive system for adjusting maybe any headband
01:31:32 ◼ ► of any product i've ever used like across all of the various vr headsets and everything
01:31:37 ◼ ► i had a hard time picturing it how it works yeah it just it pops a little bit out to do one dimension
01:31:43 ◼ ► and you push it back into the other and it's very it's really nice they did a good job it feels almost
01:31:48 ◼ ► infinite right like in in the amount of adjustment that you have yeah oh yeah it's very very special
01:31:52 ◼ ► you can dial it in very particularly it all it's also a little like firmer the whole thing is a
01:31:58 ◼ ► little a little denser yeah than it was and i think that's just that they've got that what tungsten
01:32:03 ◼ ► inserts in there but i'm surprised i would not have guessed that there was metal in this because it's
01:32:08 ◼ ► still flexible i don't know what's going on in that strap i meant to look to see if anyone's done a
01:32:13 ◼ ► tear down on it but like i was expecting the the back of it to to kind of feel rigid but no it's
01:32:19 ◼ ► still flexible but there's metal in it maybe it's very flexible metal i don't know maybe some little
01:32:25 ◼ ► little bits i don't know so this is absolutely the best headband i can see why they have decided to
01:32:31 ◼ ► make it the default headband that ships yes oh yeah this is the only one anyone should use i think at
01:32:36 ◼ ► this point yes um yes they've they it took them too long but like they're shipping the version of
01:32:41 ◼ ► this product that is the most comfortable to use now um i now just want to talk about vision pro a
01:32:48 ◼ ► little bit for just a couple of minutes you know whenever i wear this thing i always come away from
01:32:54 ◼ ► it with thoughts you know like because the thing that i'm always struck by is how impressed i am at
01:33:02 ◼ ► the complexity of it and how easy it is to use when it's working properly um and i say that because i
01:33:09 ◼ ► i have a i have an issue it's been a persistent issue for a long time now where my eye tracking seems to
01:33:16 ◼ ► kind of get out of whack and i have to redo the eye tracking and so like yeah i think we talked about
01:33:21 ◼ ► this before yeah i particularly have problems with compatible apps like uh yeah sure ipad apps
01:33:31 ◼ ► yeah the ipad apps basically trying to close those apps is almost impossible for me to be able to do
01:33:40 ◼ ► like if i look down to the little x it just never highlights it and even just using these applications
01:33:47 ◼ ► a lot of the time i have to look slightly below the action that i want to perform now the issue with
01:33:56 ◼ ► this is because there has been so little developer uh uh adoption of the vision pro from a native app
01:34:07 ◼ ► perspective across a lot of the apps that i use i am using too many of the compatible apps
01:34:13 ◼ ► right and so i'm having an experience which is not as good as it could be because i don't have these
01:34:20 ◼ ► problems with the native apps as frequently sometimes it does but not as frequently there's something about
01:34:28 ◼ ► the targets um and the targets are different on the ipad apps and that's i think it's exacerbating
01:34:32 ◼ ► your existing issue which is that there's some sort of eye tracking or alignment thing that you've got
01:34:36 ◼ ► wrong i don't i don't experience this usually but every now and then i get in a state where i can't
01:34:43 ◼ ► look at the close box in anything and i i will either readjust the headset or i will take it off
01:34:50 ◼ ► and put it back on and then and then occasionally i will do the i'll do the retraining and i think part
01:34:55 ◼ ► of it is the alignment of the headset is just a little bit off in some way where it thinks it's
01:35:02 ◼ ► doing proper eye tracking but it's not and and it really is the eye tracking is a magic trick it is uh
01:35:08 ◼ ► it is amazing when it works and then every now and then or perhaps more often for you every now and
01:35:13 ◼ ► then i get in a situation where i realize oh it's mistracking me now yeah it doesn't happen very often
01:35:18 ◼ ► for me but it does it does happen and and i have my series of steps right which is is it too high is it
01:35:24 ◼ ► too low is it a little too far away do i need to take it off and all that and then it's the i'm going
01:35:28 ◼ ► to run back through the eye tracking thing to get it to work and it is just it's just one of these
01:35:33 ◼ ► things where like i just i just don't have as good an experience with the compatible apps and and and
01:35:39 ◼ ► the the lack of native apps is is always highlighted by the fact that i have to use more compatible apps
01:35:44 ◼ ► than i would like to use to be able to get what i want to do done on the device um yeah with the widget
01:35:50 ◼ ► and window snapping stuff you know i've used it before in the betas but using it again today it's
01:35:53 ◼ ► like oh this is just really good like yeah this is really nice but again i open that widgets app and
01:35:59 ◼ ► there's not a lot of apps in there right it's like really i'm using just apple's ones uh and
01:36:04 ◼ ► timery for the most part yeah i can use my i i can use my widgets that i made for my ipad using
01:36:11 ◼ ► scriptable yeah um because that's not a vision pro app but it is a an ipad app and it contributes its
01:36:17 ◼ ► widgets so my weather widget that i built i can actually stick on a wall which is pretty fun
01:36:21 ◼ ► yeah it's like i love using the vision pro but like it's just i i i feel like i need an ipad os 26
01:36:32 ◼ ► moment with it yeah which just which is like make it easier for me to use this device more
01:36:40 ◼ ► right that's what ipad os 26 did that's the ultimate vision pro review is really it's an amazing
01:36:47 ◼ ► piece of hardware maybe the most amazing piece of hardware apple's ever built yep it's incredible
01:36:52 ◼ ► to use it you're inside it and you're like oh my god i can't believe this thing and then you spend
01:36:57 ◼ ► the last whatever the last five minutes are before you take it off is spent trying to find an excuse to
01:37:04 ◼ ► stay in it yeah and then not finding it and then leaving yeah that's the truth of it is that every
01:37:09 ◼ ► time i'm in there i'm like great how can i how can i stay in here and the answer is oftentimes it's
01:37:14 ◼ ► like oh i need to do this thing i can't do it in here i give up and or or it's you know i've
01:37:19 ◼ ► reached the end of i watched a movie in it the other week a 3d movie for a podcast and um and it was a
01:37:27 ◼ ► warm day so i like sat outside watching in my big giant you know movie theater and it was awesome but
01:37:34 ◼ ► again i get to the end and i'm like i guess i need to go inside now and do actual things because i can't
01:37:39 ◼ ► really do it here because it's just not it's just not there and there are specific i mean like
01:37:43 ◼ ► the mac virtual display has gotten a lot better i think the ipad apps look a lot better than they
01:37:48 ◼ ► used to i think that they they did something in the rendering i remember when i first used it i was
01:37:52 ◼ ► trying to write in one writer which is an ipad app and i it the text rendering was really bad and i
01:37:59 ◼ ► tried it the other day and it's much better it's not necessarily as good as a vision pro native app but
01:38:03 ◼ ► it's pretty good like they've made strides in so many areas the personas are so much better but still
01:38:09 ◼ ► the the fact remains there's not a lot of content for it they're not a lot of apps for it and so you're
01:38:14 ◼ ► left with a really whizzy fun experience that um you can't i mean you just reach the end really fast
01:38:20 ◼ ► it's like i opened the app store today and it's like there's just nothing in here yeah like yeah and
01:38:26 ◼ ► and it's a real chicken egg problem that could be solved by apple buying a lot of eggs right
01:38:31 ◼ ► but instead apple's sort of like come on in and reach the several hundred people who might buy your
01:38:41 ◼ ► vision pro you know uh immersive video thing um a couple weeks ago and it was really interesting
01:38:55 ◼ ► apple needs to be encouraging somehow probably involving money more investment in this platform
01:39:05 ◼ ► just to get it to because like it it really does kind of live or die by content and i don't just mean
01:39:11 ◼ ► immersive videos or 3d movies in disney plus or on the itunes store i also mean apps and and the content
01:39:18 ◼ ► in the apps yep it's just there's just not a lot there there's stuff and the stuff is fun
01:39:23 ◼ ► but there's not a lot of it and the more of it there is um then again if the argument is that this
01:39:29 ◼ ► is a platform that they're building for five years from now like i guess they got time but like it just
01:39:34 ◼ ► is very frustrating when i go in there that i wish i could do i always wish i could do more
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01:40:41 ◼ ► so i actually uh udacity gave me access to try out a course that i wanted um and i just started a
01:40:46 ◼ ► course on social media marketing because they have courses with tons of different options you know
01:40:50 ◼ ► they they want us to talk about the ai stuff for good reason but they have lots of things you know
01:40:54 ◼ ► some some high level stuff project management stuff some that are very technical some that are more
01:40:58 ◼ ► high level and i started today i'm looking forward to digging in even more uh the course i really like
01:41:03 ◼ ► the way the system's laid out they have the videos they have the outlines of what you're going to be
01:41:08 ◼ ► covering course downloads it's all very accessible all very easy to use i was actually this is what i was
01:41:14 ◼ ► doing in my vision pro today i was watching the videos for the social media marketing course that i'm
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01:41:50 ◼ ► questions brance writes in and says when apple brings oled to the ipad air and the ipad mini
01:41:57 ◼ ► do you think they'll give them face id as well i think face id is coming to other ipads i don't know
01:42:05 ◼ ► when i do think it will happen because it's so much nicer and apple does have this tendency to bring
01:42:11 ◼ ► pro features down over time i think the catch is just you know you got to make space for those things
01:42:19 ◼ ► and they're always fighting the battle of they also want to make uh the bezels thinner and you know
01:42:27 ◼ ► like i think the air feels more likely to me actually than the mini just because the mini is smaller
01:42:33 ◼ ► and so you've got to fit that space in there i think they will happen i have no idea when
01:42:38 ◼ ► i i think eventually everything will move to face id but i think that the rumors of the folding phone
01:42:45 ◼ ► touch id pushes this possibility out further yeah uh timothy writes in and says this question is more
01:42:53 ◼ ► for mike is there an f1 podcast that you recommend my daughter has fallen very deep into f1 and dragging
01:42:58 ◼ ► me in with her so i'm hoping to have a good podcast for me to enjoy the sport more i recommend uh p1 with
01:43:05 ◼ ► that and tommy that it i watch their content on youtube but they also have kind of more traditional
01:43:10 ◼ ► podcast feeds as well but they do like they do everything like they kind of remind me of us a
01:43:16 ◼ ► little bit jason i play games like throughout the year prediction games and and like weekly games and
01:43:22 ◼ ► all that sounds great um so you know we love a good game on the show but yeah i really like them i
01:43:27 ◼ ► really like their content that they're they're balanced you know like a lot of any kind of sport
01:43:31 ◼ ► um reporting people can get a bit get a bit over excited i would say with with some of the opinions and
01:43:38 ◼ ► i think that they do a really good job uh they're both people they you know they've been reporting on
01:43:42 ◼ ► f1 for years and years and years and they used to work uh for an existing publication they went out
01:43:47 ◼ ► and started on their own i actually met them both at uh an f1 event that i went to uh last year
01:43:53 ◼ ► they were both really really nice guys so i recommend it a lot uh p1 with matt and tommy
01:43:58 ◼ ► pat asks do you think siri should get its own app as part of future upgrades if siri is going to
01:44:05 ◼ ► keep a history of my conversations i would want a place to see them myself part of me worries apple
01:44:10 ◼ ► would make some weird ui to avoid being seen as quote just another chatbot app they could also throw
01:44:15 ◼ ► their other tools into this too if they wanted to i mean i like the idea of there being somewhere you
01:44:20 ◼ ► can go and see a siri history i think that that actually is a huge thing now the question is
01:44:31 ◼ ► double tap the bottom of the screen and it brings up a siri interface that has a thing in it is it a
01:44:36 ◼ ► weird basically do they make it weird or do they just say an app yeah but i i would like to be able
01:44:44 ◼ ► to do that i would like to be able to go in and like say all right we're going to continue this
01:44:48 ◼ ► conversation now you know that kind of stuff or just look what what was the answer and and you can't find
01:44:54 ◼ ► it because there's no history that like i think i think if they're gonna have a more chat body kind
01:45:00 ◼ ► of like experience they need to put that history somewhere i think an app is actually kind of a great
01:45:04 ◼ ► idea um but i'll give you the example of what is it shazam where shazam is in ios but there's no i mean
01:45:12 ◼ ► there is a shazam app but like by default it's just kind of a present feature it's in control center and
01:45:19 ◼ ► like i there's there ought to be yeah so i think the question is really do they do it as an app or do
01:45:25 ◼ ► they do it as a weird thing and i feel like an app is the answer not a weird thing i agree that you
01:45:31 ◼ ► have a place you can go explicitly to ask siri questions typing or voice and you can get what
01:45:38 ◼ ► your different conversations are and you can separate them i think that would be a nice thing
01:45:41 ◼ ► to do that keeps it simple so you don't have to remember how to activate the thing that kind of
01:45:46 ◼ ► feels like an app but is actually not randall says do you think that if it hadn't been for the
01:45:52 ◼ ► eu's usbc charging requirement apple might have made the iphone air portless i imagine that was in
01:45:59 ◼ ► the plans at some point i mean they've they've been talking they've been talking about it yeah
01:46:05 ◼ ► what i'll say is i don't know about if the usbc charging requirement thing like i don't know
01:46:12 ◼ ► the full ramifications of it i don't think it it does because i think that wireless charging isn't
01:46:17 ◼ ► covered by it yeah right i i think i think it's really hard to force everybody to charge wirelessly
01:46:34 ◼ ► apple would need to invent a new wireless charging thing that was faster or that wireless charging
01:46:43 ◼ ► techniques to get way better it's a hard it's a tough one not having a port introduces a lot of
01:46:49 ◼ ► complications um in terms of resetting and and support like the apple watch deals with this now
01:46:55 ◼ ► so i think that there's a lot going on here that um makes it really hard to have no no port at all and
01:47:02 ◼ ► again like apple will do it if it's not that big a deal they removed the headphone jack and it actually
01:47:07 ◼ ► wasn't that big a deal and even then people made a big deal of it yeah this would be bigger and i just
01:47:12 ◼ ► think like what's again what's the benefit to it if there if if it's if it's just to say look at what
01:47:18 ◼ ► we did he he he you know aren't we stinkers it feels more aggro than any benefit if you wait a couple
01:47:25 ◼ ► of years right like this is the this is the thing i i think this is actually true i think apple has a
01:47:29 ◼ ► dream of doing a portless phone and the time when they would have done it it would have been way too
01:47:34 ◼ ► soon because we weren't there yet and the better answer is to wait until the technology makes it
01:47:39 ◼ ► makes it almost irrelevant right that's what you really want is you want it to be we don't need
01:47:44 ◼ ► the port anymore because of x and i don't think we're there yet i would expect that there was
01:47:50 ◼ ► absolutely a version of the iphone air that had no charging port when they were when they started the
01:47:57 ◼ ► development of this product multiple years ago but like there was a like would this be the one
01:48:03 ◼ ► right because you could imagine that product right of like here is this phone look at all the things
01:48:09 ◼ ► this phone has we didn't have enough space for a chargeable like they didn't put a sim tray on it
01:48:15 ◼ ► right like yeah i could imagine a version of it that probably didn't get very far but like that they
01:48:20 ◼ ► were at least considering the iphone air sure i have a charging port on it sure and that would be
01:48:24 ◼ ► say making a phone so thin that you can't put usb on it that's a reason to do it yeah right but just
01:48:30 ◼ ► just be a regular old thick iphone pro and it doesn't have no because they closed it up
01:48:35 ◼ ► like spiteful what are you doing and again they could invest they could invent something else
01:48:41 ◼ ► but then you've got to deal with now there is there a special magnetic connector that i have to bring
01:48:47 ◼ ► with me and like that's not not standard and if chi charging which is a standard but like it's got
01:48:54 ◼ ► issues and there's support issues like i don't know you just gotta you gotta have a really good reason to do
01:48:59 ◼ ► it and jack writes in and says have you ever chatted with mark german he would be a fascinating guest on
01:49:05 ◼ ► the show well jack indeed he was episode 296 which was a horrifically long time ago five years over
01:49:12 ◼ ► five years ago now we had 20 20 on the show um which is i i haven't listened back to it but i still
01:49:18 ◼ ► reckon it's fun listen i would like to talk to mark again i would actually i have not asked him so you
01:49:23 ◼ ► know but i would i would like to have mark on cortex at some point um to talk oh that would be about his
01:49:28 ◼ ► right workflow that would be that would be good but we talked to him about like you know his context and
01:49:33 ◼ ► we some of it is about like apple during the pandemic but some of it is about him doing his job and
01:49:38 ◼ ► he was he was a great guest and and we really like his uh he's he's the best one out there in
01:49:42 ◼ ► terms of uh all this stuff in terms of getting the you know getting the scoops he is the best he's the
01:49:48 ◼ ► sheriff for a reason that's why he's the sheriff so uh unconnected they stole rumor roundup last week
01:49:53 ◼ ► yeah they did but i saw that but steven called mark german the wizard i'm like i see you don't
01:49:58 ◼ ► understand what rumor roundup is why would you call the man a wizard as a wizard in the wild west what
01:50:08 ◼ ► it's like a fantasy put he's got like rumor roundup but they're rounding up aliens i don't
01:50:14 ◼ ► know what he's doing or like it's a wizard so like they're rounding up like trolls or something
01:50:18 ◼ ► trolls yeah i don't know what that i mean about you know get the fan art going i guess for that but
01:50:24 ◼ ► the wizard i guess that was his way of making it kind of a slightly off brand no i just think that
01:50:30 ◼ ► they're imitators jason and and they just they just there's the original you know they just can't do
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