Connected

00:00:07 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to Connected Episode 615.

00:00:12 ◼   ► It's made possible by our sponsors, Squarespace, Backblaze, and Revenue Cat.

00:00:17 ◼   ► I am your annual chairman, Steven Hackett, and I am joined by Man of

00:00:22 ◼   ► the People, Mike Hurley.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Oh, hello.

00:00:25 ◼   ► Uh I have the pleasure of introducing not the constant as he was known,

00:00:29 ◼   ► because the constant's not here.

00:00:31 ◼   ► It is in fact the draft champion, Jason Snell.

00:00:34 ◼   ► The upgrade draft champion, Jason Snell.

00:00:36 ◼   ► Hi, Jason.

00:00:36 ◼   ► Hi, thank you for uh introducing me with my title, and it's a pleasure

00:00:39 ◼   ► to be back on uh the connector program.

00:00:41 ◼   ► It's great.

00:00:41 ◼   ► I hadn't talked to Mike this week, Steven, because he was uh he was

00:00:44 ◼   ► flying when we did upgrade on Monday.

00:00:46 ◼   ► So it's nice to thank for thanks for sharing Mike with me.

00:00:50 ◼   ► Let me tell you the the the temptation I had to get over to

00:00:54 ◼   ► not put earnings talk in this episode.

00:00:58 ◼   ► Like the we'll do a we'll just talk later offline.

00:01:03 ◼   ► Uh we can have just have a nice talk and you can show me

00:01:05 ◼   ► some charts and we'll do we'll be fine.

00:01:07 ◼   ► I said to Jason, I was needing to upgrade, and it's I had that

00:01:10 ◼   ► rare feeling of like need feeling like I needed to talk to him and

00:01:14 ◼   ► Dan about what they were talking about.

00:01:16 ◼   ► Yes.

00:01:16 ◼   ► Um so it it it took a lot from me not to put that

00:01:20 ◼   ► that conversation into the show, but we're not here to talk about that.

00:01:23 ◼   ► We are not.

00:01:23 ◼   ► Uh we got lots of other things to talk about, but we're gonna start

00:01:27 ◼   ► with some Snell talk.

00:01:29 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:30 ◼   ► I stole this from your feedback form in the CMS.

00:01:33 ◼   ► Wow.

00:01:34 ◼   ► Wow, he's just okay.

00:01:37 ◼   ► Outrageous.

00:01:38 ◼   ► Jack asks, does Jason miss 3D touch?

00:01:42 ◼   ► Um, Jack, I I don't.

00:01:44 ◼   ► I don't even a little.

00:01:45 ◼   ► I I I never used it after I like tested it for when it

00:01:51 ◼   ► when it came out.

00:01:52 ◼   ► And I like the idea of kind of a right-click for touch, but it

00:01:55 ◼   ► turns out tap and hold is that.

00:01:57 ◼   ► Like, and it was completely undiscoverable, and even though I knew it was there

00:02:01 ◼   ► and I never used it because I just didn't even think about it.

00:01:59 ◼   ► So it's a nice idea.

00:02:05 ◼   ► I do wonder a little bit if this we if we should throw this

00:02:08 ◼   ► into the list along with the touch bar as things where like the hardware

00:02:12 ◼   ► people are like, oh man, we can do this thing, we press harder and

00:02:15 ◼   ► we can sense it.

00:02:16 ◼   ► And then the software people were like, nah, eh, we're not that excited about

00:02:21 ◼   ► it.

00:02:21 ◼   ► Sounds like the touching bar a little bit.

00:02:23 ◼   ► Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

00:02:24 ◼   ► Is I if I I wonder if this is like that, where there was

00:02:29 ◼   ► a real disconnect between like the enthusiasm of hardware people to build uh cool

00:02:33 ◼   ► hardware and the software people just kind of were not believers.

00:02:36 ◼   ► Um, but regardless, it just kind of tap and hold like when they when

00:02:41 ◼   ► they took it out and it was just tap and hold.

00:02:44 ◼   ► I I literally forgot that they took it out.

00:02:47 ◼   ► Somebody had to remind me, like, you know, it used to be 3D touch

00:02:50 ◼   ► and I'm like, oh yeah, I guess, because just tap and hold seems much

00:02:53 ◼   ► more natural.

00:02:54 ◼   ► Peak and pop, baby.

00:02:55 ◼   ► Do you remember peek and pop?

00:02:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:57 ◼   ► I'm just sure.

00:02:58 ◼   ► I mean, a lot of apps still use it, and the main use of

00:03:01 ◼   ► it I it remains, which is being able to preview an iMessage without opening

00:03:07 ◼   ► it so you don't mark it as red.

00:03:08 ◼   ► And I do that to everyone, including both of you all the time.

00:03:11 ◼   ► How dare you?

00:03:12 ◼   ► Um but it's just the thing that sometimes I just want to know what

00:03:14 ◼   ► you say, but like I haven't got the time to deal with it, and

00:03:17 ◼   ► so then I don't leave you on red, you know.

00:03:19 ◼   ► No one wants to prevent that.

00:03:21 ◼   ► Yeah, because I am a red receipts person.

00:03:23 ◼   ► I think I think that is the fair thing to do with your friends.

00:03:27 ◼   ► So if you would like to send in a snow talk of your own.

00:03:30 ◼   ► Just go to upgradefeedback.com and you can see that.

00:03:33 ◼   ► And then Steven will read it, I guess.

00:03:35 ◼   ► Stephen Steven will steal it.

00:03:36 ◼   ► So look forward to that in the future.

00:03:38 ◼   ► He's peeping, he's peeping in there.

00:03:39 ◼   ► He's peeping in our uh our comment form, Mike.

00:03:42 ◼   ► Peeping.

00:03:42 ◼   ► No, it's terrible.

00:03:43 ◼   ► He's always doing that.

00:03:44 ◼   ► Like Steven does this, like, and I get it.

00:03:44 ◼   ► It's like he gets admin privilege, but like you upload something to that CMS.

00:03:51 ◼   ► If he wants it, he'll just download it.

00:03:52 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:03:53 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:03:54 ◼   ► He doesn't care.

00:03:55 ◼   ► Oh, more than that, uh, I have access to the design of California Slack

00:04:01 ◼   ► channel.

00:04:01 ◼   ► And at some point, Jim put like a rough edit, and I was like,

00:04:03 ◼   ► should I listen to that?

00:04:05 ◼   ► But I I restrained, I restrained myself.

00:04:08 ◼   ► You don't have the Dropbox, so not yet.

00:04:12 ◼   ► Steven, did you know that I um have I have some admin privileges to

00:04:17 ◼   ► the relay site, and I can I think I could I can post blog

00:04:20 ◼   ► posts.

00:04:21 ◼   ► Oh god.

00:04:25 ◼   ► Excuse me, one second.

00:04:26 ◼   ► Nope, nope.

00:04:29 ◼   ► Let just let the man blog.

00:04:31 ◼   ► User you need you need me, you need me in there because if I

00:04:34 ◼   ► see a typo, I can just fix it.

00:04:36 ◼   ► I hate that you do that, both of you, by the way.

00:04:38 ◼   ► Oh, I do it all the time.

00:04:39 ◼   ► I don't I don't want people going in and changing my stuff.

00:04:43 ◼   ► Leave it alone.

00:04:44 ◼   ► It's not yours.

00:04:44 ◼   ► Oh yeah, yeah, Jason.

00:04:46 ◼   ► You're a full admin in the CMS.

00:04:48 ◼   ► That's fine.

00:04:48 ◼   ► Yeah, I was trying to figure out how to create.

00:04:49 ◼   ► We we created the design in California show in the CMS yesterday.

00:04:53 ◼   ► And I had a moment where I was clicking around, like, I should be

00:04:56 ◼   ► able to just create this, can't I?

00:04:57 ◼   ► And yeah, new show.

00:04:58 ◼   ► I guess I could have done it.

00:04:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:00 ◼   ► It's right there.

00:05:00 ◼   ► But I but I did it.

00:05:02 ◼   ► Thanks.

00:05:02 ◼   ► Although so much needs to be done for this page, even though it does

00:05:05 ◼   ► exist.

00:05:05 ◼   ► But it's how come in gang.

00:05:07 ◼   ► It's it's on the way.

00:05:08 ◼   ► Yeah some sometime soon.

00:05:09 ◼   ► We're working on it.

00:05:10 ◼   ► Follow up.

00:05:11 ◼   ► Very hard.

00:05:11 ◼   ► Follow up.

00:05:12 ◼   ► Follow up.

00:05:13 ◼   ► Follow up.

00:05:13 ◼   ► Follow up.

00:05:15 ◼   ► Google Health, the application you need for the Fitbit Air, now syncs data to

00:05:23 ◼   ► Apple Health and Health Kit.

00:05:25 ◼   ► So it went the other way, right?

00:05:27 ◼   ► Where the Google Health app would slurp up your Apple Health data.

00:05:29 ◼   ► Now it's bi-directional.

00:05:32 ◼   ► Zach call it nine to five, uh reported on this, and it seems to

00:05:36 ◼   ► include sleep data, steps, workouts, and vitals.

00:05:42 ◼   ► Um, and it I mean, in my brief time with it, it seems to

00:05:47 ◼   ► basically do what it what it's supposed to do.

00:05:49 ◼   ► And this is what I want out of really any third-party tracker, especially Google

00:05:55 ◼   ► Health, because that app is is pretty bad, and I don't want to interact

00:06:00 ◼   ► with it.

00:06:00 ◼   ► And so uh they've uh they finally got this going.

00:06:03 ◼   ► Um a friend of mine who is let's just say um well acquainted with

00:06:11 ◼   ► Apple's health initiatives, um sent me a blog post in like 2018 or something,

00:06:17 ◼   ► someone had written a Google uh fit Fitbit at the time was like, yeah,

00:06:20 ◼   ► we're not gonna deal with Health Kit.

00:06:23 ◼   ► Like, well, times change, baby.

00:06:26 ◼   ► So just to like check what's happening here.

00:06:29 ◼   ► So now your Fitbit Air, that's what it's called, right?

00:06:32 ◼   ► Yes, Fitbit Air.

00:06:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:34 ◼   ► Well, if you're wearing it, it's gonna sync its information to the Google Health

00:06:40 ◼   ► app, which then will sync that to Apple Health.

00:06:44 ◼   ► Correct.

00:06:45 ◼   ► Okay.

00:06:46 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:06:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:47 ◼   ► Have you seen this happening?

00:06:49 ◼   ► Uh yeah.

00:06:50 ◼   ► I mean, it seems to seem to do it.

00:06:52 ◼   ► Again, I I didn't have a ton of time with this.

00:06:54 ◼   ► Um, but seems to be.

00:06:55 ◼   ► Are you wearing an Apple Watch at the same time?

00:06:58 ◼   ► Uh currently, no.

00:07:00 ◼   ► Okay.

00:07:01 ◼   ► Because I wonder what happens, you know.

00:07:03 ◼   ► No, I've been um I've been wearing a G Shock for like a month.

00:07:08 ◼   ► Amazing.

00:07:09 ◼   ► Because when I was whooping, when I had the whoop band, I had to

00:07:12 ◼   ► turn a bunch of stuff off because I was wearing the whoop and the

00:07:15 ◼   ► Apple Watch.

00:07:16 ◼   ► Oh, my step count like quintuppled almost.

00:07:19 ◼   ► Right.

00:07:14 ◼   ► It was ridiculous.

00:07:20 ◼   ► It was just like suddenly I was running back.

00:07:25 ◼   ► Yes.

00:07:26 ◼   ► I guess.

00:07:27 ◼   ► It's a lot of steps.

00:07:28 ◼   ► It was a nightmare.

00:07:30 ◼   ► I had to turn a bunch of stuff off.

00:07:32 ◼   ► Because I don't actually think it was double, which was the funny thing.

00:07:36 ◼   ► And and that was like with the very weird way that these things count

00:07:39 ◼   ► information.

00:07:39 ◼   ► It was not good.

00:07:40 ◼   ► And so you you have to be careful with that if you do use

00:07:42 ◼   ► multiple, but probably you shouldn't use multiple.

00:07:45 ◼   ► And I do have the Garmin one on order.

00:07:48 ◼   ► Um, but it is not shipped.

00:07:50 ◼   ► Ah, yes.

00:07:50 ◼   ► So what is that?

00:07:51 ◼   ► I uh it is one of these, but with no subscription, is that correct?

00:07:55 ◼   ► No subscription.

00:07:56 ◼   ► People were mad because there was some heart rate tracking stuff that they were

00:07:59 ◼   ► gonna put in the subscription, and then they've said no, that will be free

00:08:03 ◼   ► for everybody.

00:08:03 ◼   ► Oh, wait, so there is a subscription.

00:08:06 ◼   ► Yes, but it's very specific things that most optional.

00:08:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't think most people will need.

00:08:13 ◼   ► And the Fibonacci, you to be clear, you can use it without a subscription.

00:08:17 ◼   ► The the big thing the subscription gets you is like the Google Health AI

00:08:21 ◼   ► coach, which just vomits paragraphs of LLM text all over the user interface.

00:08:27 ◼   ► It's not super useful.

00:08:29 ◼   ► Hey, people like that.

00:08:30 ◼   ► Do they?

00:08:31 ◼   ► Do people want to read paragraphs of text?

00:08:34 ◼   ► I've heard people are really into it.

00:08:37 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:08:38 ◼   ► That's good.

00:08:40 ◼   ► Uh we have some long-term follow-up here from listener Steve, who sent in follow-up

00:08:46 ◼   ► like a year and a half ago about AirPods translation, and then just a

00:08:52 ◼   ► note this past week saying I tried AirPods live translation on a trip to

00:08:56 ◼   ► Spain last year.

00:08:58 ◼   ► Timely, Steve.

00:09:00 ◼   ► My partner and I joined a brewery tour that was entirely in Spanish, so

00:08:59 ◼   ► I put my AirPods in as an experiment.

00:09:06 ◼   ► I followed the guide's story reasonably well, uh, though series tone couldn't capture his

00:09:13 ◼   ► genuine excitement.

00:09:14 ◼   ► The real problem was latency.

00:09:17 ◼   ► I was 15 to 20 seconds behind.

00:09:20 ◼   ► By the time he asked if anyone wanted more beer, I was still laughing

00:09:23 ◼   ► at an earlier joke.

00:09:25 ◼   ► So he thought I wanted a refill.

00:09:27 ◼   ► I accepted anyway.

00:09:29 ◼   ► Must have looked really weird if you're continuing to laugh.

00:09:32 ◼   ► Like everyone else has stopped and you're like, ha ha ha!

00:09:36 ◼   ► Maybe don't offer him any more beer at that point.

00:09:39 ◼   ► What is this guy doing?

00:09:40 ◼   ► Uh yeah, okay.

00:09:41 ◼   ► I mean, like, I don't know how you solved that, right?

00:09:44 ◼   ► Like, I guess there's just like maybe maybe more advanced on device models can

00:09:51 ◼   ► speed that up.

00:09:53 ◼   ► But I don't know how c how much latency you I mean, I guess

00:09:57 ◼   ► you could get pretty close to it, but yeah, interesting.

00:09:59 ◼   ► All right.

00:10:01 ◼   ► Have you guys used the live translation stuff?

00:10:04 ◼   ► Not me.

00:10:05 ◼   ► Not me.

00:10:06 ◼   ► No.

00:10:07 ◼   ► The only time really that I would have to use this if is if

00:10:10 ◼   ► is if they had Romanian, which they don't, and I understand why they don't.

00:10:14 ◼   ► Um, but I do wonder if large language models should make this kind of

00:10:19 ◼   ► like expansion faster, like two more obscure languages.

00:10:24 ◼   ► Like you give me something rather than nothing, I feel like, but I I

00:10:29 ◼   ► don't think they're ever gonna support Romanian.

00:10:32 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a bummer.

00:10:34 ◼   ► This feels awkward to me.

00:10:35 ◼   ► I think I would only use it if I felt like really kind of

00:10:37 ◼   ► at sea.

00:10:37 ◼   ► Like if I was if I was in a country where everybody spoke that

00:10:43 ◼   ► language and I didn't, and I needed to understand what was going on, I

00:10:44 ◼   ► would try it, but I haven't been in one of those in a while.

00:10:52 ◼   ► So and I'm not gonna do it like the guy who was trying to

00:10:58 ◼   ► fix my sprinklers the other week was is it doesn't speak English very well

00:11:03 ◼   ► at all.

00:11:04 ◼   ► Uh if at all, he's very quiet.

00:11:06 ◼   ► Um and I'm not gonna do that, right?

00:11:09 ◼   ► I'm just not I'm not gonna say, hey, let's try this out.

00:11:13 ◼   ► The Google Translate deal, you know, like you're just writing stuff and showing it

00:11:17 ◼   ► to each other.

00:11:17 ◼   ► Like I feel like that bit of people do that more and more.

00:11:20 ◼   ► Like I've done that.

00:11:21 ◼   ► Yeah, sure.

00:11:21 ◼   ► The translation app on iOS.

00:11:23 ◼   ► I I've I've used that in that way.

00:11:26 ◼   ► Or in iMessage, even you can use it, which is pretty cool.

00:11:31 ◼   ► Good news for CarPlay enthusiasts.

00:11:34 ◼   ► It's coming to boats.

00:11:37 ◼   ► Boat play, baby!

00:11:39 ◼   ► Boat play.

00:11:40 ◼   ► It's not car play when it's on a boat.

00:11:43 ◼   ► Why it's not a car, it's a boat.

00:11:45 ◼   ► Yeah, so it shouldn't have it.

00:11:47 ◼   ► That's what I think.

00:11:48 ◼   ► I don't want to keep your car play out on my boats.

00:11:51 ◼   ► That's what I said.

00:11:51 ◼   ► Yeah, car play out of boats.

00:11:53 ◼   ► Hashtag carplay out of boats.

00:11:54 ◼   ► This is my this is my stance.

00:11:56 ◼   ► Well, I was gonna buy this yacht, but it just has Android Auto.

00:11:59 ◼   ► So Yeah, exactly.

00:12:00 ◼   ► I don't want no, but again, don't put Android Auto on a boat either.

00:12:03 ◼   ► Android Boto.

00:12:05 ◼   ► All right, and I need someone to explain to me why this is useful.

00:12:08 ◼   ► I got you.

00:12:09 ◼   ► So Mastercraft is a company, they make lots of boats and own boat brands

00:12:14 ◼   ► and stuff.

00:12:15 ◼   ► Um I didn're adding car play to some pontoon boats.

00:12:17 ◼   ► Pontoon boats are generally like they're not you can use them for fishing, but

00:12:22 ◼   ► they are primarily used for like family outings or parties or that sort of

00:12:26 ◼   ► thing.

00:12:27 ◼   ► Like big, wide, flat boats.

00:12:29 ◼   ► Party boats.

00:12:29 ◼   ► Party boats.

00:12:31 ◼   ► And more and more over the years, boats have had increasingly good audio video

00:12:41 ◼   ► systems.

00:12:42 ◼   ► Like to a point where if you have like a ski boat, you have

00:12:45 ◼   ► like giant arrays of speakers pointing backwards so the person skiing can ski along

00:12:49 ◼   ► to ACDC or whatever.

00:12:52 ◼   ► But the interfaces for those have been pretty bad.

00:12:55 ◼   ► Like it's like a little Bluetooth box, or it's aux in or it's some

00:12:59 ◼   ► proprietary nonsense.

00:13:01 ◼   ► And now it's just car play, which lots of people know and love.

00:13:06 ◼   ► And they are putting um or they're working with a company called, and I

00:13:12 ◼   ► promise you this is their name, Savvy Navy.

00:13:15 ◼   ► Savvy Navy.

00:13:17 ◼   ► To bring on water navigation to cover.

00:13:20 ◼   ► Okay.

00:13:21 ◼   ► Because my question was gonna be like in this screenshot here on 9 to

00:13:24 ◼   ► 5.

00:13:25 ◼   ► Well, that can't be Apple maps, because they don't have boat mode, boat and

00:13:30 ◼   ► savvy navy.

00:13:31 ◼   ► If you go to their website at savvy navy.com, those top headline is could

00:13:36 ◼   ► they not get it without the dash?

00:13:38 ◼   ► Do you think?

00:13:39 ◼   ► Uh I don't know.

00:13:39 ◼   ► It's like Google Maps for boats.

00:13:41 ◼   ► That's their slogan.

00:13:42 ◼   ► It's like Google Maps for boats, you know, for boats.

00:13:46 ◼   ► Savvy Navy No Space is parked, but it's easier to parse with a dash

00:13:52 ◼   ► in it.

00:13:52 ◼   ► So I agree.

00:13:54 ◼   ► Today I tried to register a domain name and was annoyed that it was

00:13:57 ◼   ► taken and couldn't believe it, and it was taken by me.

00:14:00 ◼   ► Oh my god.

00:14:01 ◼   ► So there we go.

00:14:02 ◼   ► That's where I am.

00:14:03 ◼   ► That's so I was like, how did somebody get that domain?

00:14:07 ◼   ► And the person who got that domain was me.

00:14:09 ◼   ► That's hilarious.

00:14:10 ◼   ► Uh like I've tried to register it through Hover and it asked to make

00:14:13 ◼   ► an offer.

00:14:14 ◼   ► Can you imagine if I would have made an offer to myself by the

00:14:18 ◼   ► domain name?

00:14:19 ◼   ► That would have been incredible stuff.

00:14:21 ◼   ► I wish I would have pressed that button now and not really thought about

00:14:24 ◼   ► checking the next step.

00:14:25 ◼   ► Then you get an email and you're like, oh, that's a pretty good price.

00:14:28 ◼   ► Hang on.

00:14:29 ◼   ► I can sell that.

00:14:30 ◼   ► Let's make a profit.

00:14:33 ◼   ► So is it which one of you's gonna trust test the boat out?

00:14:36 ◼   ► I have I have a friend with a pontoon boat, but you know, obviously

00:14:41 ◼   ► it's not this this has been added to like this.

00:14:43 ◼   ► You gotta buy a new pontoon boat with a with a an infotainment system

00:14:48 ◼   ► that then supports boat play.

00:14:50 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:14:53 ◼   ► Don't think you can get some kind of retrofit system like you've done with

00:14:56 ◼   ► cars, Steven.

00:14:57 ◼   ► You can't sure.

00:14:58 ◼   ► I mean, sure, I think people have been doing that, I would imagine.

00:15:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:01 ◼   ► This is what I would recommend is you know, get a kayak and get

00:15:04 ◼   ► like a get one of those in dash uh third-party, you know, OE non-OEM

00:15:09 ◼   ► uh car play units that you have to attach to like a uh battery

00:15:13 ◼   ► via some like little wires.

00:15:14 ◼   ► It'll be a pr you put some tape on it, it won the water

00:15:17 ◼   ► won't be a problem.

00:15:18 ◼   ► And then try.

00:15:21 ◼   ► I know.

00:15:22 ◼   ► This this could be the thing for you.

00:15:24 ◼   ► You could do this.

00:15:24 ◼   ► Yeah, but I have a canoe.

00:15:27 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:15:27 ◼   ► That's what that's what I'm saying.

00:15:29 ◼   ► You could do this, but you you know, you wouldn't.

00:15:31 ◼   ► Or I can play.

00:15:32 ◼   ► I could turn my pickup truck into a boat.

00:15:34 ◼   ► It's like a TV show you did that a long time ago, but can't

00:15:38 ◼   ► remember.

00:15:39 ◼   ► As we have spoken about on the pro show for eight weeks straight, Federico

00:15:44 ◼   ► has been doing some Ethernet stuff.

00:15:46 ◼   ► Uh and it it reminded me that at one point Jason had Ethernet cables

00:15:51 ◼   ► running across the roof of his house.

00:15:53 ◼   ► Which is true.

00:15:54 ◼   ► Horribly upsetting.

00:15:55 ◼   ► And I wanted to get uh an update on your wired networking situation.

00:15:59 ◼   ► Well, I've got great news.

00:15:59 ◼   ► I had an electrician come out.

00:16:03 ◼   ► We talked about this on upgrade a little bit because big right?

00:16:06 ◼   ► Because my electrician's name is David.

00:16:10 ◼   ► And when I asked him if he could also do Ethernet, he said, Are

00:16:14 ◼   ► you kidding?

00:16:15 ◼   ► They call me Data Dave.

00:16:17 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:16:18 ◼   ► I remember Data Dave.

00:16:20 ◼   ► It's like, oh, you didn't know that about me?

00:16:23 ◼   ► I know that I'm legendary as Data Dave.

00:16:26 ◼   ► And so he did it.

00:16:27 ◼   ► So what so my house does not have an attic to speak of, a

00:16:30 ◼   ► crawl space, a basement.

00:16:33 ◼   ► It's a concrete slab, and the and there is an there is an attic

00:16:37 ◼   ► to call it a crawl space would not even do it justice.

00:16:41 ◼   ► It's at its highest point, it might be like you could wedge a small

00:16:46 ◼   ► person in there, but like you might not get them back.

00:16:51 ◼   ► It's a one-way trip.

00:16:52 ◼   ► It's not it's not, so you can't do stuff like that.

00:16:57 ◼   ► Not it would be an enormous undertaking to try to wire stuff in there.

00:17:02 ◼   ► You could also we discovered actually when we were trying to do some um

00:17:06 ◼   ► lighting and and stuff in our living room that there's a beam that comes

00:17:11 ◼   ► across the living room that completely blocks one side of the crawl space from

00:17:15 ◼   ► the other, a support beam.

00:17:18 ◼   ► Um, because we thought we had blown insulation into this one crawl space, and

00:17:22 ◼   ► then we opened up the other half from the garage and discovered it was

00:17:25 ◼   ► like a time capsule from 1954 or whenever they built the house.

00:17:29 ◼   ► It was pristine.

00:17:30 ◼   ► There's nothing in it, it.

00:17:31 ◼   ► It was completely untouched because it was completely isolated from the rest of the

00:17:35 ◼   ► house, which makes putting wires through it that much more complicated.

00:17:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:39 ◼   ► So um the truth is, what did Data Dave do?

00:17:43 ◼   ► You know, drilled a hole in my garage, ran three Ethernet cables out.

00:17:47 ◼   ► They're tacked under the eaves.

00:17:50 ◼   ► Um one goes into, or is it three or maybe just yeah, one goes

00:17:55 ◼   ► into the living room, which is not very far.

00:17:58 ◼   ► One goes into the back bedroom, and one goes into uh Jamie's old bedroom,

00:18:03 ◼   ► which we use as Studio B.

00:18:05 ◼   ► And so I've got wired Ethernet going into all three bedrooms because there was

00:18:09 ◼   ► already a wire going in, already Ethernet going into the other bedroom, and the

00:18:14 ◼   ► living room and the garage, which is where my fiber router is.

00:18:17 ◼   ► So um, so I have access to wired Ethernet.

00:18:20 ◼   ► My house is not very big.

00:18:22 ◼   ► Uh uh the these cable runs are not particularly long.

00:18:25 ◼   ► Um, but that means that I've got I've got wired going in.

00:18:28 ◼   ► And that that proved that replaces Steven, your favorite feature, which is I used

00:18:34 ◼   ► to just have a uh a hundred foot or whatever Ethernet cable that came

00:18:39 ◼   ► out of the uh the living room and and went up onto the roof,

00:18:44 ◼   ► across the roof, all the way to the back bedroom down in the end.

00:18:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:48 ◼   ► And that is uh that has been removed and and and trashed uh because

00:18:53 ◼   ► there's solar panels and stuff up there now too.

00:18:55 ◼   ► There's no place for that kind of thing up there.

00:18:57 ◼   ► So uh so yeah, that's the that's the story is data dave took care

00:19:01 ◼   ► of it.

00:19:02 ◼   ► Um, and so now I've got access to that.

00:19:04 ◼   ► And I do I take advantage of that?

00:19:06 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:19:06 ◼   ► I mean, my Apple TV has that uh has access to that.

00:19:11 ◼   ► The the the computer in the back can be on when I'm working back

00:19:14 ◼   ► in the back bedroom or in Studio B, it's wired.

00:19:18 ◼   ► It's a wired connection to out here where I've got the fiber, so it's

00:19:21 ◼   ► fast and I can connect everything, you know, without having to resort to the

00:19:24 ◼   ► Wi-Fi.

00:19:25 ◼   ► And then there's an Eero back there as well as out here.

00:19:28 ◼   ► So I've got I've got wired Eero.

00:19:31 ◼   ► They don't have to talk to each other via radio.

00:19:33 ◼   ► They can they can just be on the same wired network.

00:19:36 ◼   ► I have had a weird thing happen lately, which is I have I have

00:19:39 ◼   ► the the Eero what seven, the fancy big one.

00:19:44 ◼   ► And what I discovered is that I have certain devices that um that struggle

00:19:50 ◼   ► to see it in my like in my driveway.

00:19:54 ◼   ► I feel like there's something going on with it where it's not I I

00:19:59 ◼   ► don't know.

00:19:59 ◼   ► Some some of my devices like struggle to see it.

00:20:02 ◼   ► But the thing is I have a second network that is in my fiber

00:20:06 ◼   ► router that um I have for a very stupid reason, which is that my

00:20:12 ◼   ► washing machine couldn't connect to the Eero.

00:20:15 ◼   ► It's a known problem.

00:20:17 ◼   ► Uh you don't need you don't need your washing machine on the network, Jason.

00:20:23 ◼   ► What is the problem?

00:20:25 ◼   ► Uh it's something with like the frequency of Wi-Fi or the standard of Wi-Fi

00:20:29 ◼   ► that the Eero uses is too advanced for the washing machine.

00:20:32 ◼   ► But fortunately.

00:20:33 ◼   ► I'm sure you did.

00:20:34 ◼   ► But like I've had this problem with some Eero stuff.

00:20:36 ◼   ► You can turn on like a temporary 2.4 gigahertz mode and connect it and

00:20:41 ◼   ► it will latch on.

00:20:42 ◼   ► I've had that before.

00:20:44 ◼   ► I don't know whether that would have worked, or maybe even I tried that.

00:20:46 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:20:47 ◼   ► I I basically said there's a whole wireless router in the fiber router that

00:20:53 ◼   ► I'm not using.

00:20:54 ◼   ► So I turned it on and created a new network for it.

00:20:57 ◼   ► And now I have several kind of smart home things that are in the

00:21:01 ◼   ► front of the house or right outside that are all on that network instead

00:21:06 ◼   ► because I think it's dumber and older and slower, but they that like a

00:21:10 ◼   ► lot of smart home stuff is really happy to just be on the dumb

00:21:13 ◼   ► slow network and not on whatever the hacky hero is doing.

00:21:17 ◼   ► So I'm not yet I've not yet crossed over into the ubiquity realm like

00:21:21 ◼   ► uh like Steven R.I.P.

00:21:23 ◼   ► He's a ubiquity guy now, but um Casey got him.

00:21:26 ◼   ► It just seems like a lot of work, honestly.

00:21:29 ◼   ► It does.

00:21:29 ◼   ► It does.

00:21:30 ◼   ► Well, and it's the classic.

00:21:31 ◼   ► This is like an upgrade we were talking about.

00:21:33 ◼   ► How um we heard from everybody who uses FileMaker, we heard from literally the

00:21:38 ◼   ► entire FileMaker install base.

00:21:40 ◼   ► Right.

00:21:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:40 ◼   ► Uh and we're like, how how is FileMaker still around?

00:21:43 ◼   ► And the answer is because once you build something and you invest years into

00:21:47 ◼   ► it, the cost of keeping it up is a lot less than the cost

00:21:50 ◼   ► of tearing it down and replacing it with something new.

00:21:52 ◼   ► And I feel that way about like Eero and Ubiquity.

00:21:54 ◼   ► It's like if I started from scratch now, I've seen Steven's dashboard.

00:21:57 ◼   ► He showed it to us in Memphis.

00:21:59 ◼   ► I saw all the little dots animating showing where every single packet in his

00:22:03 ◼   ► house was going.

00:22:04 ◼   ► And I thought it was super cool too.

00:22:06 ◼   ► I would absolutely do that today if I was starting from scratch, but I'm

00:22:10 ◼   ► not.

00:22:10 ◼   ► I've got a thing, it mostly works, and my washing machine connects to the

00:22:14 ◼   ► other router, and it's fine.

00:22:16 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:22:18 ◼   ► Okay.

00:22:19 ◼   ► That's uh so that's it.

00:22:21 ◼   ► I I'm I'm glad I could fulfill your um talk about networking uh fix

00:22:26 ◼   ► since Federico wasn't.

00:22:27 ◼   ► We'll be back next week talking about more Ethernet stuff.

00:22:31 ◼   ► Yeah, it's great.

00:22:31 ◼   ► Get data Dave.

00:22:32 ◼   ► He needs a trip to Italy.

00:22:38 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-in-one website platform

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00:24:22 ◼   ► My thanks to Squarespace for their support of the show clipboard manager.

00:24:32 ◼   ► It's not really a thing that I felt like I needed.

00:24:35 ◼   ► I've been pretty happy with Raycast as a clipboard manager.

00:24:38 ◼   ► I was using it before uh as my launcher before Spotlight got its upgrade.

00:24:43 ◼   ► And I switched over to Spotlight, but I didn't.

00:24:46 ◼   ► There was a couple of things about the way that Apple implemented the clipboard

00:24:50 ◼   ► manager that didn't really work for me.

00:24:51 ◼   ► So I continued using Raycast and I got very used to it.

00:24:55 ◼   ► But then PaySpot 3 came out and people seemed very excited about it.

00:24:59 ◼   ► And uh I used to use Paysbot back in the day.

00:25:01 ◼   ► Do you remember when PaceBot on the iPhone used to pretend it was a

00:25:03 ◼   ► VoIP app and it would stay constantly connected with the little blue bar at

00:25:08 ◼   ► the top of your screen so you could send information backwards and forwards?

00:25:11 ◼   ► That was a weird time to be alive.

00:25:13 ◼   ► But this doesn't have this is just PaysBot 3 for Mac.

00:25:16 ◼   ► I wanted to try it out and it solved two things for me immediately.

00:25:20 ◼   ► And so now I've moved to Pay Spot away from Raycast.

00:25:23 ◼   ► So one of the one of the main reasons that I use any clipboard

00:25:29 ◼   ► manager and uh what I was using Raycast for is for copy and pasting

00:25:34 ◼   ► text from websites into Google Docs.

00:25:38 ◼   ► Because for some reason, Google Docs loves formatting.

00:25:44 ◼   ► It loves it.

00:25:45 ◼   ► If you copy something from Bloomberg, oh boy, does it want to put that

00:25:49 ◼   ► in a in a uh a serif font for you?

00:25:51 ◼   ► Like it just wants to, you know, like it oh boy, can I keep

00:25:55 ◼   ► the formatting from Bloomberg?

00:25:56 ◼   ► Let me try my best.

00:25:57 ◼   ► And I don't want that.

00:25:58 ◼   ► I just want to paste it in like regular plain text.

00:26:02 ◼   ► And the easiest way that I found to do this before was just to

00:26:06 ◼   ► uh I would copy the text and then I would open Raycast and just

00:26:11 ◼   ► like you know, like you just use the keyboard shortcut, which I think I

00:26:14 ◼   ► used as command shift C, and then just press enter, and it would just

00:26:18 ◼   ► paste what I wanted because it would be the first entry.

00:26:20 ◼   ► And so like I like that a lot.

00:26:21 ◼   ► It was just an easy way to be able to strip the formatting out

00:26:24 ◼   ► of something, put it into Google Docs.

00:26:25 ◼   ► This is mostly for the upgrade show notes, right?

00:26:27 ◼   ► Because I'm copying things from Bloomberg and pasting them in to our uh notes

00:26:32 ◼   ► to read them, and it was just a nightmare.

00:26:34 ◼   ► PaySpot has, I would say, more features than you would expect for a clipboard

00:26:40 ◼   ► manager in general.

00:26:42 ◼   ► This app does a lot of stuff.

00:26:44 ◼   ► Uh one of the things that I really like is you can take any

00:26:48 ◼   ► text, you can manipulate it in some way, and it well, in many ways,

00:26:54 ◼   ► but you can also add specific key bindings to specific manipulations of text.

00:27:01 ◼   ► So I now have a global shortcut to just straight up paste any text

00:27:08 ◼   ► into any document, and in the middle, it's going to turn that text to

00:27:13 ◼   ► plain text.

00:27:14 ◼   ► So now I can just copy something and hit command shift V and it

00:27:18 ◼   ► will just paste that text into plain text anywhere.

00:27:21 ◼   ► This is very good.

00:27:22 ◼   ► I like this a lot.

00:27:23 ◼   ► So this is just like one of the text kind of manipulation things that

00:27:26 ◼   ► it does, and then you can set a command to it.

00:27:28 ◼   ► You can also bring up the pastebot menu and go through any of these

00:27:32 ◼   ► um manipulations say that it might do to text that you might want.

00:27:37 ◼   ► And it will show you in UI like what the text will look like

00:27:39 ◼   ► when it's done.

00:27:40 ◼   ► It's like something like you can take text smileys and turn them into emoji,

00:27:46 ◼   ► right?

00:27:46 ◼   ► So if you I don't know who this person is that that wants emoji

00:27:50 ◼   ► but doesn't use emoji and wants to do like colon close parentheses and then

00:27:55 ◼   ► turn that into a smiley emoji, but it will do that for you if

00:27:58 ◼   ► you want that.

00:27:59 ◼   ► Um so that one's great, and then there's also a second thing, which you

00:28:03 ◼   ► can you can save your snippets into collections, so like a paste bin.

00:28:07 ◼   ► Uh and I have a bunch of things.

00:28:09 ◼   ► So in widget smith, we have a thing called the Inspo tab, which is

00:28:13 ◼   ► like a things you can do in widgetsmith.

00:28:13 ◼   ► It's like a social media feed inside of the app.

00:28:18 ◼   ► It's a blog.

00:28:13 ◼   ► You can say it's a blog.

00:28:20 ◼   ► No, you think it's a blog, and I think it's a social media feed.

00:28:24 ◼   ► This is this causes a lot of conversation between the two of us.

00:28:27 ◼   ► It's not a blog, it is a social media feed inside of the app.

00:28:32 ◼   ► And we it's written in Markdown, but we also use some HTML.

00:28:36 ◼   ► And so I just have a bunch of HTML snippets that I now save

00:28:39 ◼   ► in a paste bin so I can easily access them without needing to search

00:28:43 ◼   ► too much for them.

00:28:43 ◼   ► It's very good.

00:28:44 ◼   ► So I need to dig into Pay Spot more because there's like a bunch

00:28:48 ◼   ► of rules and commands that you can do.

00:28:50 ◼   ► There's like a lot of stuff in this app, but I'm very intrigued by

00:28:54 ◼   ► it.

00:28:54 ◼   ► It's like a it's a thing that I didn't think I would necessarily want

00:28:57 ◼   ► to change in my life, but I like the way that they've implemented it.

00:29:01 ◼   ► I don't know if either of you have played of it at all.

00:29:04 ◼   ► I have.

00:29:05 ◼   ► I've been trying Spotlight again.

00:29:07 ◼   ► I tried it when Tahoe first came out and sort of bounced off of

00:29:11 ◼   ► it.

00:29:11 ◼   ► But I'm trying it again because in Golden Gate, you know, it's tied in

00:29:14 ◼   ► with Siri.

00:29:15 ◼   ► I was like, I should I should understand this better.

00:29:18 ◼   ► But the clipboard manager in Siri I found kind of frustrating that you have

00:29:24 ◼   ► to like invoke it and then you have to change modes within Spotlight.

00:29:29 ◼   ► It's a bit a bit clunky.

00:29:31 ◼   ► Um and so like you, I saw Pay Spot 3, people were excited, and

00:29:35 ◼   ► so I'm trying it now, and I really like it.

00:29:39 ◼   ► I like that it's sort of separate from the launcher in a way that

00:29:43 ◼   ► I I was using Alfred before for for both things.

00:29:46 ◼   ► There are some things in here that I wish were better.

00:29:49 ◼   ► Uh when you pull up the palette, which I have is Command Shift V.

00:29:54 ◼   ► It's relatively useful, but like I mentioned to Paul on Mastodon today, is like

00:30:00 ◼   ► I one thing I really like about Alpha and some of the others is

00:30:03 ◼   ► if you have like code for a color, it gives you a little swatch

00:30:07 ◼   ► showing you the color.

00:30:10 ◼   ► Um some of the others don't do though, is it shows you not only

00:30:16 ◼   ► the format of what it is, or like is it text?

00:30:19 ◼   ► Is it a PDF, but the application where it came from?

00:30:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:26 ◼   ► Which is surprisingly useful if you're trying to find something, you know, that was

00:30:30 ◼   ► a while a while back.

00:30:31 ◼   ► It's like, I know I was doing this in, you know, Mime Stream, but

00:30:35 ◼   ► where is it?

00:30:36 ◼   ► Uh and the search is pretty good on the uh on the little uh

00:30:42 ◼   ► palette that comes up.

00:30:43 ◼   ► So uh I'm liking it.

00:30:45 ◼   ► Uh I think it's gonna probably stick around for me if I stick in

00:30:48 ◼   ► spotlight, but I think there are some things that some some niceties that some

00:30:52 ◼   ► other clipboard managers have that they should look at.

00:30:55 ◼   ► I should say that um the clipboard manager in spotlight also shows the app

00:31:00 ◼   ► that it comes from.

00:31:01 ◼   ► Okay, which is nice.

00:31:03 ◼   ► Launchboard doesn't do it.

00:31:05 ◼   ► Um, but it does.

00:31:06 ◼   ► It shows like a little icon next to it.

00:31:08 ◼   ► And it's like if it's from Safari, there's a Safari icon.

00:31:10 ◼   ► And yeah, I had like a Dropbox link and it's got a Dropbox icon

00:31:14 ◼   ► next to it, which is kind of nice.

00:31:16 ◼   ► Um Yeah, even the text thing, and it's got like a BB edit text

00:31:21 ◼   ► icon with a slack badge on it.

00:31:23 ◼   ► So there's a lot of information there.

00:31:24 ◼   ► I'm not quite sure how you interpret all of that, but it is there.

00:31:27 ◼   ► I for me, I've never used Payspot, and I wonder if I should.

00:31:31 ◼   ► The challenge that I've got is that a lot of what it does, I've

00:31:34 ◼   ► replicated elsewhere.

00:31:36 ◼   ► Like I have a keyboard maestro macro that I use when I'm doing especially

00:31:42 ◼   ► design in California research.

00:31:44 ◼   ► It's very much like Mike's uh uh Bloomberg paste where it's like it it

00:31:50 ◼   ► takes it to it wraps it because a lot of stuff, especially from like

00:31:54 ◼   ► PDFs of books that I want to quote, they come in with line breaks.

00:31:58 ◼   ► And so I have a pace bot or not pay spot, uh, a keyboard

00:32:02 ◼   ► maestro where I type like semicolon wrap and it wraps the text on the

00:32:07 ◼   ► clipboard and pastes it in.

00:32:09 ◼   ► They specifically have one for doing trim white space, like a so remove leading

00:32:15 ◼   ► and trailing spaces and tabs from each line, leaving the text between them untouched.

00:32:20 ◼   ► Like this is like one of the little writing manipulations they have.

00:32:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I think I so I think part part of it is going back

00:32:26 ◼   ► to what we were talking about with uh the networking, which is like one

00:32:30 ◼   ► of the challenges is do I rip up the thing that I've got set

00:32:33 ◼   ► up that works fine to do something that does the same thing, but might

00:32:37 ◼   ► be a better tool for it that I'm gonna have to set up and

00:32:40 ◼   ► learn and all of that.

00:32:41 ◼   ► And I think that's what's kept me out of it.

00:32:42 ◼   ► Is I have so you know, I have so many automation tools now that

00:32:47 ◼   ► like you see another one and you're like, yeah, but I already automated that

00:32:50 ◼   ► with a to completely different pathway.

00:32:52 ◼   ► Yes, even though this might be a you know, because keyboard maestro is a

00:32:56 ◼   ► general purpose automation tool where Pacebot is really targeted on this.

00:33:01 ◼   ► So I'll think about it because like I I I know so many people

00:33:05 ◼   ► who rave about it, and I think it probably would be a more appropriate

00:33:10 ◼   ► set of tools, even though I could replicate everything it does in keyboard maestro

00:33:14 ◼   ► or somewhere else somehow.

00:33:15 ◼   ► Keyboard maestro is really good for this.

00:33:17 ◼   ► This is the you know, uh uh thing with a little key binding, and

00:33:21 ◼   ► I mean I've got it ended ending up being uh uh an expansion.

00:33:24 ◼   ► So instead of it being command shift control, whatever, it's literally, you know, semicolon

00:33:29 ◼   ► wrap and it just backspaces and then puts it in there, which is really

00:33:29 ◼   ► nice.

00:33:34 ◼   ► I also wonder if I'm having the a little bit of the clean shot

00:33:39 ◼   ► response here, which is um everybody loves clean shot.

00:33:43 ◼   ► Mike talks about it all the time.

00:33:44 ◼   ► All the time.

00:33:45 ◼   ► And I my response is always like, yeah, but I'm happy with the system

00:33:50 ◼   ► screenshot utility, which does almost everything, does everything I need.

00:33:53 ◼   ► And every time I say that, I get like five messages that say, But

00:33:57 ◼   ► did you know that it does this?

00:33:58 ◼   ► And did you know that it does this?

00:33:59 ◼   ► It's like, well, okay, but I don't I I'm fine.

00:34:04 ◼   ► And so I think I wonder if that's part of it too, is like

00:34:07 ◼   ► it's a I'm sure it's a nice utility, but if my needs are being

00:34:10 ◼   ► served, I'm not sure I need to go through the process of you know,

00:34:16 ◼   ► repla replacing it's hard to replace something with something else that does the same

00:34:20 ◼   ► thing.

00:34:21 ◼   ► Yes.

00:34:21 ◼   ► Even if your workflow has evolved where you're avoiding the here's the catch.

00:34:26 ◼   ► If you're avoiding something, or you just don't do something because your tool doesn't

00:34:30 ◼   ► do it, you're actually cutting yourself off from having some improvement.

00:34:34 ◼   ► But you don't, in the moment you don't think about that, right?

00:34:37 ◼   ► You're just thinking about a one-to-one replacement and saying, why should I bother?

00:34:40 ◼   ► So you really do need to have that moment where you think, actually, this

00:34:44 ◼   ► could open up new pathways for me.

00:34:46 ◼   ► And I pay spot, honestly, Mike, hearing you talk about it, it makes me

00:34:50 ◼   ► feel a little more like I actually should explore that because there's probably more

00:34:54 ◼   ► possibilities that I could do in terms of how I process stuff on my

00:34:58 ◼   ► clipboard than I'm currently doing.

00:35:00 ◼   ► They're they have like the the pre-built kind of like things that you can

00:35:05 ◼   ► do uh really good, but then you also can kind of build your own

00:35:09 ◼   ► filters that do a bunch of things, and like they have like you can

00:35:15 ◼   ► they kind of give you a a manager to build them, but it's like

00:35:18 ◼   ► you know, you can chain you can do uh custom find and replace HTML

00:35:22 ◼   ► stuff, base 64 encode, like there's like a lot of things you can do

00:35:25 ◼   ► which you would probably enjoy.

00:35:27 ◼   ► But the even just like the standard things that are built in, like another

00:35:30 ◼   ► one, uh convert to title case.

00:35:32 ◼   ► So now I can select some text, copy it, and then just hit a

00:35:37 ◼   ► keyboard command and it will convert that text to title case for me.

00:35:40 ◼   ► But like I I was feeling in the same kind of thing if you

00:35:44 ◼   ► was like, why would I why would what is this gonna do for me?

00:35:48 ◼   ► But it was this sense of like it's not just me bringing up the

00:35:54 ◼   ► clipboard manager and doing things with the text that just if there's something on

00:35:59 ◼   ► my clipboard, I can now just hit a specific keyboard command and it will

00:36:03 ◼   ► just do the thing that I want it to do, rather than me either

00:36:07 ◼   ► ever having to bring up the UI in the middle of it all.

00:36:09 ◼   ► That was the thing that was like, oh, that's really good, because now I

00:36:13 ◼   ► can just save a couple of unnecessary keyboard commands that I was doing to

00:36:17 ◼   ► be able to just like do this pasting the way that I wanted.

00:36:20 ◼   ► It just it will just do it for me.

00:36:22 ◼   ► So I like that.

00:36:23 ◼   ► The business model that they've got I find really interesting.

00:36:27 ◼   ► So you can either subscribe in the app store, it's an annual subscription.

00:36:32 ◼   ► Uh it's 2499 a year or two ninety-nine a month, or you can buy

00:36:38 ◼   ► it from them directly for $39, and that is one year of updates, and

00:36:43 ◼   ► then you pay $20 at or $19, I should say, for any for every

00:36:48 ◼   ► other set of updates you want over a year.

00:36:50 ◼   ► So it's like they're like, Well, what if we do both of the systems?

00:36:55 ◼   ► And like I remember a time when you weren't allowed to do this kind

00:36:58 ◼   ► of thing, but I just think that time is gone now.

00:36:59 ◼   ► Um but it's I find it really interesting that they're kind of like pick

00:37:06 ◼   ► your poison.

00:37:06 ◼   ► Do you want the old way or the new way?

00:37:08 ◼   ► We're just gonna offer you both of both of them.

00:37:11 ◼   ► Have fun.

00:37:12 ◼   ► And so I thought that was I thought that was really interesting.

00:37:16 ◼   ► It's time for some helpful consumer advice from the connected program.

00:37:20 ◼   ► We got a uh a couple things we're gonna talk through.

00:37:23 ◼   ► The first one is weather stations.

00:37:26 ◼   ► Um we've been talking about this on the show a little bit.

00:37:28 ◼   ► I've always wanted one, but have never really gotten gotten there.

00:37:32 ◼   ► But Jason, what should I get?

00:37:36 ◼   ► Well, so I have had a weather station in my backyard for twenty almost

00:37:44 ◼   ► twenty-two years.

00:37:45 ◼   ► Yes.

00:37:46 ◼   ► I'm on my second, which is pretty amazing that this is a piece of

00:37:50 ◼   ► tech hardware and I've only had two in twenty-two years.

00:37:53 ◼   ► I mean, I'm gonna give you the spoiler alert is I'm gonna give you

00:37:56 ◼   ► the boring answer, which is actually I think the wire cutter pick, which I'll

00:37:59 ◼   ► get to in a minute, is the probably the right one for you.

00:38:02 ◼   ► Um the so you gave me some specifics, like you've got Wi-Fi that's available,

00:38:08 ◼   ► so wherever you put this, it's gonna be able to see your Wi-Fi network,

00:38:10 ◼   ► which is good because you do need a wireless network.

00:38:12 ◼   ► There are sort of two ways that these devices tend to handle it, which

00:38:16 ◼   ► is either they're on Wi-Fi or they do a radio transmitter, and then you've

00:38:20 ◼   ► got a receiver in the house that's you know, which is what I have

00:38:24 ◼   ► for mine, is there's a receiver in the house that's on the uh on

00:38:27 ◼   ► my Ethernet network.

00:38:29 ◼   ► Okay.

00:38:29 ◼   ► And so they talk over a radio frequency, not on Wi-Fi.

00:38:33 ◼   ► And then that device is the one that logs the data and talks to

00:38:36 ◼   ► the cloud and all of those things.

00:38:38 ◼   ► And has an API so I can query it and it talks to my

00:38:41 ◼   ► weather app that on my Mac and all of that.

00:38:43 ◼   ► But um a lot of them just have Wi-Fi now.

00:38:48 ◼   ► Um power, you said might be tricky.

00:38:51 ◼   ► The beauty of the weather station is generally, and and the one I'm gonna

00:38:55 ◼   ► recommend has a battery option as a it's an option, but you should put

00:39:00 ◼   ► a battery in it.

00:39:01 ◼   ► Um they have solar panels and a capacitor and a backup battery.

00:39:05 ◼   ► And this is how I have run my weather station for 21 plus years,

00:39:11 ◼   ► is it's never been connected to power.

00:39:14 ◼   ► Perfect.

00:39:14 ◼   ► Um so you you you know, you make sure that it's got solar, it's

00:39:18 ◼   ► got a solar panel on it, um, put in a battery backup, and then

00:39:22 ◼   ► um it's got a capacitor.

00:39:24 ◼   ► So the idea there is the solar drinks in enough and it's low enough

00:39:26 ◼   ► power that it'll get through the night and then come back.

00:39:28 ◼   ► But the battery is nice to have for a cloudy day and in the

00:39:31 ◼   ► winter and all of that.

00:39:33 ◼   ► And um that worked uh like a charm for me and continues to now.

00:39:38 ◼   ► So you don't have to deal with power, which as you might expect for

00:39:41 ◼   ► a weather station is good because these are often in weird places that are

00:39:44 ◼   ► remote.

00:39:45 ◼   ► That's one of the reasons why they a lot of them have RF with

00:39:48 ◼   ► a receiver, is that you can get more distance out of RF than you

00:39:51 ◼   ► can just standard Wi-Fi.

00:39:52 ◼   ► I also feel like if your weather station can't be powered by solar, then

00:39:56 ◼   ► nothing you own could ever be powered by solar.

00:40:00 ◼   ► I I suppose.

00:40:01 ◼   ► I feel like just at a simple level, if the thing that you put

00:40:03 ◼   ► outside to track the weather doesn't get the sun, you're out of luck.

00:40:08 ◼   ► If ever there was a a product that should be solar powered, it's this.

00:40:11 ◼   ► But yeah, they're often on like a remote hillside or or somewhere.

00:40:14 ◼   ► Mine is I've got a I've got a metal pole attached to the side

00:40:17 ◼   ► of my house that it that it's on, but you could put this in

00:40:20 ◼   ► your backyard, you know, you know, wherever.

00:40:24 ◼   ► And the wire cutter pit is the ambient weather WS2000.

00:40:29 ◼   ► The good news, I looked up the tech specs of it.

00:40:29 ◼   ► Like you you want to have the sensors that you want.

00:40:36 ◼   ► I think the ambient weather comes with, you know, it's going to tell you

00:40:39 ◼   ► how much precipitation you got.

00:40:40 ◼   ► It's going to tell you the temperature and the humidity.

00:40:43 ◼   ► Um, I think it's expandable.

00:40:45 ◼   ► So if you had other sensors you wanted to add that if there's something

00:40:47 ◼   ► that it doesn't measure, you could do that.

00:40:50 ◼   ► Um they all do cloud connecting now, so it'll go to Weather Underground and

00:40:55 ◼   ► and some other sites like that.

00:40:57 ◼   ► They have their own ambient weather thing that you can log into and see

00:41:00 ◼   ► the data.

00:41:01 ◼   ► And I believe all of these things now have like API support either directly

00:41:07 ◼   ► to the device or to their cloud service or to another cloud service that

00:41:12 ◼   ► you're uploading data to.

00:41:14 ◼   ► So if you wanted to have a custom front end somewhere in home assistant

00:41:19 ◼   ► or on a web page or whatever, you could do that too.

00:41:23 ◼   ► Like mine, um, and it's not actually the weather station, it's the little receiver

00:41:27 ◼   ► that's in the house.

00:41:28 ◼   ► Like there's a URL that gives me like a a JSON response with all

00:41:33 ◼   ► the current weather data.

00:41:34 ◼   ► And I can just parse that.

00:41:36 ◼   ► And that's very easy to do.

00:41:37 ◼   ► And there are plugins for home bridge and home assistant that will also do

00:41:43 ◼   ► that.

00:41:43 ◼   ► And so generally these days, back when I got my first weather station, it

00:41:49 ◼   ► the the receiver was um a it was a PC serial connection.

00:41:57 ◼   ► So you had to get a PC serial to USB adapter.

00:42:00 ◼   ► Yes.

00:42:01 ◼   ► Um, and I had to use this incredibly weird piece of software.

00:42:05 ◼   ► Um things are a lot friendlier now, which is really nice.

00:42:08 ◼   ► That and I also that was a Davis Vantage, which was a much more

00:42:11 ◼   ► like a pro weather station.

00:42:13 ◼   ► Um, but now they discovered, hey, regular people like Weather Station stuff too.

00:42:18 ◼   ► And they they all have like apps now too, where you can like put

00:42:21 ◼   ► you can put their app.

00:42:22 ◼   ► I'm sure Ambient has a an app that you could put on your phone

00:42:25 ◼   ► that would just be like your own personal weather station, but you can integrate

00:42:28 ◼   ► it elsewhere.

00:42:28 ◼   ► It's all that stuff is so much better.

00:42:30 ◼   ► And then it's just a matter of what you want to do with it.

00:42:33 ◼   ► Um and and you know, I have a whole system that I had set

00:42:38 ◼   ► up, but it's because my system was much more complex in the old days,

00:42:42 ◼   ► like so much we've been talking about.

00:42:43 ◼   ► If I were to set it up today, I'd probably keep it a lot

00:42:46 ◼   ► simpler.

00:42:46 ◼   ► But instead, it's this thing that's evolved over, you know, 20 years.

00:42:50 ◼   ► So yeah, I think I think you could read the wire cutter article.

00:42:54 ◼   ► That there's uh a different weather station that's like easier to set up, but

00:42:58 ◼   ► I'm not worried about you being technically flummoxed by a weird weather station.

00:43:02 ◼   ► I think you got it, I think you're gonna defeat it.

00:43:04 ◼   ► Um and uh the the keys are just make sure that it's solar powered

00:43:09 ◼   ► because you don't want to deal with power issues, yeah.

00:43:12 ◼   ► Um, and make sure that it is measuring all the stuff you want to

00:43:16 ◼   ► have measured and that it will do proper like connections so that you can

00:43:20 ◼   ► get at that data from somewhere.

00:43:22 ◼   ► That's it.

00:43:22 ◼   ► Cool.

00:43:23 ◼   ► All right, I'm gonna make some bookmarks because I want to do this.

00:43:27 ◼   ► And um honestly the the ambient weather one looks great.

00:43:30 ◼   ► So yeah, it looks a lot like mine.

00:43:32 ◼   ► I have a vantage view, which they also reviewed and they didn't like because

00:43:34 ◼   ► they didn't think it was as accurate, which I mean, whatever.

00:43:37 ◼   ► The Davis vantages are are are like they were the ones that were the

00:43:41 ◼   ► standard forever until these other companies have gotten into the mix now.

00:43:46 ◼   ► But um, you know, there's no it's very industrial and unfriendly in a lot

00:43:51 ◼   ► of ways because it's a company that's come from the professional side, right?

00:43:54 ◼   ► Whereas some other companies that have come from the consumer side have sort of

00:43:58 ◼   ► stepped up their game.

00:43:59 ◼   ► Right.

00:43:59 ◼   ► And and that makes me reluctant to ever recommend something from the other side

00:43:59 ◼   ► because it's really kind of unfriendly and probably overpriced.

00:44:07 ◼   ► Um, but I bought another when my when my Davis Vantage Pro died, I

00:44:13 ◼   ► bought another Davis Vantage largely because I felt like they had built a piece

00:44:18 ◼   ► of hardware, computer hardware, that I kept outside for about 18 years and it's

00:44:24 ◼   ► it it didn't die for 18 years.

00:44:26 ◼   ► And I thought, okay, you you you're gonna get my money as a thank

00:44:31 ◼   ► you for making something that lasted so long.

00:44:35 ◼   ► Um, but for other people, uh I would I I think the ambience sounds

00:44:39 ◼   ► like a pretty solid.

00:44:40 ◼   ► I haven't used it, but it looks solid.

00:44:42 ◼   ► So yeah.

00:44:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:43 ◼   ► Okay.

00:44:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna check this out.

00:44:45 ◼   ► And I totally get like the loyalty thing.

00:44:47 ◼   ► I mean, uh that makes a lot of sense to me.

00:44:49 ◼   ► I'm I'm very much the same way.

00:44:51 ◼   ► I mean, if that one, don't get me wrong, if this one broke in

00:44:53 ◼   ► like two years, I'd I'd be furious, but um, but I I feel like

00:44:57 ◼   ► I owed them.

00:44:58 ◼   ► But you know, you gotta make this stuff's pretty rugged because it like Mike

00:45:01 ◼   ► was saying about uh if there's anything that's gonna be solar power, yeah.

00:45:04 ◼   ► If there's anything that's gonna be rugged, it's gonna be a thing that you're

00:45:07 ◼   ► just gonna leave outside forever.

00:45:10 ◼   ► Right.

00:45:10 ◼   ► And they are generally pretty rugged.

00:45:12 ◼   ► The only warning I'll give you is every so often you gotta check the

00:45:15 ◼   ► little rain gauge to make sure that there isn't like a spider web on

00:45:19 ◼   ► it or some stuff from a tree hasn't fallen on it.

00:45:21 ◼   ► Spiders love these things, so taking a little rag and wiping out the spider

00:45:26 ◼   ► uh webs and stuff is a thing that's gonna be.

00:45:28 ◼   ► That's a reasonable.

00:45:30 ◼   ► Didn't you write the wire cut or optical for weather stations once?

00:45:35 ◼   ► No.

00:45:35 ◼   ► What did you do?

00:45:36 ◼   ► No, I wrote a I wrote a roundup in Macworld uh um in, well,

00:45:40 ◼   ► let's say 2004.

00:45:42 ◼   ► What did you do for Wi-A Clunter then?

00:45:44 ◼   ► I know you did something.

00:45:45 ◼   ► Was it routers?

00:45:46 ◼   ► Uh no, I did uh Smart Thermostats.

00:45:48 ◼   ► Smart Thermostats.

00:45:44 ◼   ► In the early days when there were only like three of them.

00:45:52 ◼   ► Inside weather, if you think about it.

00:45:54 ◼   ► Inside weather.

00:45:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:55 ◼   ► That was my specialty.

00:46:00 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by Backblaze.

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00:47:24 ◼   ► My thanks to Backblaze for their support of this show and all of Relay.

00:47:30 ◼   ► While we're talking about stuff to buy, I want to sanity check something with

00:47:35 ◼   ► you both.

00:47:37 ◼   ► So I've been travailing my backup strategies over the course of the last few

00:47:44 ◼   ► months on the show.

00:47:45 ◼   ► And something else that I want to do now is to have proper network

00:47:49 ◼   ► attached storage because designing California creates many gigabytes.

00:47:54 ◼   ► Many, many, many, many gigabytes.

00:47:56 ◼   ► It's true.

00:47:57 ◼   ► And I also want to keep all of these files in a way that

00:48:00 ◼   ► I don't always like most podcast editing files, I just get rid of them

00:48:05 ◼   ► after a certain period of time.

00:48:09 ◼   ► I keep the Cortex episodes, they're in Dropbox, taking up a lot of space.

00:48:13 ◼   ► But this show's gonna take up a huge amount very quickly.

00:48:18 ◼   ► And I don't want to have to deal with basically I was getting pretty

00:48:23 ◼   ► close to my Dropbox uh limit recently, and I was like, well, let me

00:48:27 ◼   ► just increase it.

00:48:28 ◼   ► And I actually can't.

00:48:30 ◼   ► They won't let me increase it.

00:48:32 ◼   ► They I would have to go on to essentially an enterprise plan, and I'm

00:48:35 ◼   ► just not willing to do that.

00:48:36 ◼   ► Um so I did end up finding some files in my Dropbox that realistically

00:48:40 ◼   ► I didn't need anymore, so I I got I took them out.

00:48:43 ◼   ► But I want to have a network attached storage system for this project.

00:48:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:50 ◼   ► And I've been looking around and I've been thinking, I mean, going back to

00:48:54 ◼   ► some of the stuff I was thinking about before, because I have this Mac

00:48:58 ◼   ► that's always on, and I've got files saved on it, and then when I

00:49:01 ◼   ► started thinking about that, I'm like, ah, well, the problem is I'm going to

00:49:05 ◼   ► need to share things with Jason or Jim at certain points.

00:49:09 ◼   ► And do I want to be like doing the management then of like, all

00:49:15 ◼   ► right, so now let me upload this to Dropbox and then share the link

00:49:19 ◼   ► with this thing.

00:49:19 ◼   ► It's like, no.

00:49:20 ◼   ► So what I have what I think I what I think I've landed on

00:49:24 ◼   ► is that Synology is right for me in this scenario.

00:49:28 ◼   ► Um let me talk about why I think it might be and then why

00:49:31 ◼   ► I think it isn't, and then maybe you two can tell me if you

00:49:34 ◼   ► think I'm on the money or not with this thinking.

00:49:36 ◼   ► So something like a Synology is something that I can connect to.

00:49:43 ◼   ► I can mount to it when I'm in the studio, but it's a standalone

00:49:48 ◼   ► box, like it's just do living its own life, right?

00:49:51 ◼   ► Like it's it's not dependent on any particular computer.

00:49:54 ◼   ► I like the idea of a product that can I can do other things

00:49:59 ◼   ► with.

00:49:59 ◼   ► Like if I also wanted to have a Plex server in the future, I

00:50:03 ◼   ► could do that.

00:50:04 ◼   ► It can also, you know, perform its own backups and stuff like that, which

00:50:08 ◼   ► I think is an interesting thing, right?

00:50:09 ◼   ► Is it is essentially a computer, so it can do things on its own.

00:50:14 ◼   ► Um having something that's always connected to the internet, so I can share files

00:50:18 ◼   ► with other people and get to them from other devices too, right?

00:50:22 ◼   ► So I can I can I know it I can't remember the name all

00:50:25 ◼   ► this, like Synology Drive or whatever, um, so I could log into that and

00:50:29 ◼   ► grab files over the the internet from somewhere else if I wanted to, as

00:50:33 ◼   ► well as sharing with other people.

00:50:35 ◼   ► I also like the idea of the system being able to have its own

00:50:39 ◼   ► redundancy, right?

00:50:40 ◼   ► That like I can fill it with drives and and have it do in

00:50:44 ◼   ► some kind of RAID configuration.

00:50:46 ◼   ► The downsides.

00:50:48 ◼   ► So my very shallow research, I will say, uh suggests that these days, to

00:50:55 ◼   ► get the best out of a Synology, you should be using their drives, which

00:50:59 ◼   ► I know created a lot of controversy.

00:51:02 ◼   ► That's just marketing BS from it.

00:50:59 ◼   ► I know.

00:51:05 ◼   ► Okay, so to get the best based on what they're saying, right?

00:51:09 ◼   ► Like they say, I'll say.

00:51:11 ◼   ► They say to get all of the features that you might want from a

00:51:15 ◼   ► Synology, you should use Synology drives.

00:51:17 ◼   ► Now, I understand that the thinking for the people are upset about that is

00:51:21 ◼   ► partly price.

00:51:22 ◼   ► However, in the world we're currently in, there is Synology drives are essentially priced

00:51:29 ◼   ► the same as everybody else's because everybody's drives are so expensive.

00:51:33 ◼   ► So that's one thing.

00:51:35 ◼   ► But you know, anyway.

00:51:36 ◼   ► And the other thing is, the other I guess the other downside, which I

00:51:40 ◼   ► think I know that two of you will would probably say this to me

00:51:43 ◼   ► anyway, is this is absolutely going to be harder than if to configure and

00:51:48 ◼   ► manage, and if I just had a big drive connected to my Mac.

00:51:52 ◼   ► Right?

00:51:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:53 ◼   ► Like, yeah.

00:51:54 ◼   ► But the problem is I don't think it solves the main thing that I

00:51:58 ◼   ► think I'm going to need, which is a lot of storage of which I

00:52:03 ◼   ► can share specific files with other people very easily.

00:52:07 ◼   ► So this is the situation that I'm in.

00:52:09 ◼   ► Um I've I've got a link in the show notes.

00:52:12 ◼   ► Uh this is mostly for you two to look at, but I will put

00:52:16 ◼   ► it in the notes.

00:52:17 ◼   ► The product that I think I'm settling on is the Disc Station DS925 Plus.

00:52:25 ◼   ► I did this research like a month ago.

00:52:27 ◼   ► I don't remember why this is the one that I settled on, but it

00:52:30 ◼   ► is the one that I settled on.

00:52:32 ◼   ► And I found a company in the UK that will sell it to me

00:52:36 ◼   ► with a bunch of Synology's drives, like 16 terabytes.

00:52:39 ◼   ► It's expensive, but it's kind of like what I expect to pay.

00:52:42 ◼   ► If I if I price this up myself on Amazon or whatever, with just

00:52:46 ◼   ► like Seagate drives or whatever, it's very much in the realm.

00:52:49 ◼   ► And I'll say that that realm is like 1300 pounds, which is very expensive.

00:52:54 ◼   ► But this is the problem.

00:52:55 ◼   ► If you want 16 terabytes of storage in the year 2026, you're gonna pay

00:52:59 ◼   ► for it.

00:53:00 ◼   ► And yeah, um that this is it.

00:53:01 ◼   ► So what do you what do you guys think about this thinking?

00:53:05 ◼   ► And do you think I am anywhere in the ballpark?

00:53:08 ◼   ► I think I think you are it it it is nice just to have

00:53:13 ◼   ► a big drive attached to a Mac.

00:53:16 ◼   ► It's how I did it for a long time before I moved to a

00:53:18 ◼   ► NAS.

00:53:19 ◼   ► But the upside is also the downside.

00:53:23 ◼   ► Mac OS is the intermediate layer.

00:53:27 ◼   ► And I think for your need, and that's fine for a lot of people.

00:53:30 ◼   ► It's fine for me for a long, long time, but it comes, it does

00:53:34 ◼   ► come to a point where you need something that is more tailor-made for things

00:53:41 ◼   ► you mentioned sharing, RAID, doing its own backups.

00:53:46 ◼   ► Um when I looked at this, I know I'm gonna sound like a fanboy

00:53:50 ◼   ► because we talked about networking earlier, but like I chose uh a uh Ubiquity

00:53:55 ◼   ► NAS because there it is.

00:53:57 ◼   ► I I didn't need or want my NAS to be a computer.

00:54:01 ◼   ► Like my NAS is just a bucket of storage on my network.

00:54:05 ◼   ► Now it can, it does back up to Backblaze on its own.

00:54:08 ◼   ► It does have some of those simple things.

00:54:10 ◼   ► I can also share files from it, but it's not like syncing with my

00:54:15 ◼   ► Dropbox and hosting Plex and doing those other things.

00:54:20 ◼   ► That's what I wanted.

00:54:21 ◼   ► Those are the trade-offs that I wanted.

00:54:23 ◼   ► I think for you and what you have outlined as your needs, uh, both

00:54:28 ◼   ► here and elsewhere.

00:54:29 ◼   ► I do think Synology is probably the way to go, even though it's expensive,

00:54:34 ◼   ► even though they sort of stepped in it PR wise with the hard drive

00:54:38 ◼   ► thing.

00:54:39 ◼   ► I think it being a computer is beneficial in your circumstance as opposed to

00:54:47 ◼   ► using Mac OS to do this.

00:54:49 ◼   ► I mean, like the thing, like I need to share this folder with with

00:54:52 ◼   ► some people.

00:54:53 ◼   ► Like, I mean, good luck doing that with with Mac OS.

00:54:57 ◼   ► Uh and I'm sorry.

00:54:58 ◼   ► It's just not, it's just not a server operating system in the way that

00:55:02 ◼   ► something like a disk station has.

00:55:05 ◼   ► Yeah, I I get it.

00:55:07 ◼   ► I I still use a Mac with a rate attached as my storage.

00:55:11 ◼   ► And I don't have the ability to arbitrarily say, let's just share this.

00:55:17 ◼   ► I mean, I I I haven't felt the need.

00:55:18 ◼   ► I could probably look into it, but like I I tend to put things

00:55:21 ◼   ► in Dropbox if I'm sharing them, and then they just kind of get archived

00:55:24 ◼   ► back on the server um later.

00:55:27 ◼   ► And I actually have my server syncs to my Dropbox and it keeps everything

00:55:31 ◼   ► local, so there's a local copy, and then it can land sync to the

00:55:33 ◼   ► other devices.

00:55:34 ◼   ► Here's my concern for Mike.

00:55:35 ◼   ► And I I'm not saying no to this.

00:55:37 ◼   ► I'm saying here's my worry is I think you get frustrated at things that

00:55:43 ◼   ► are I'm trying to be nice here because No, no, no, say it because

00:55:48 ◼   ► I agree with you.

00:55:48 ◼   ► Just so just say it.

00:55:50 ◼   ► Well, anytime I ever try to explain something to you that involves the terminal

00:55:53 ◼   ► or a Perl script or a Python script or a Unix command, you're like,

00:55:58 ◼   ► ah, no, get it away.

00:56:00 ◼   ► It's true.

00:56:01 ◼   ► And the problem is you are with Synology, you are welcoming a Linux server,

00:56:08 ◼   ► basically, into your life where a lot of it is web UI, which is

00:56:14 ◼   ► great.

00:56:16 ◼   ► But it's not already the web, the UI is the great part because the

00:56:21 ◼   ► other part is, oh, why is this working?

00:56:22 ◼   ► It's like, well, maybe you have to open, I don't know, a terminal window.

00:56:28 ◼   ► Um whereas if you have a Mac attached to a RAID, and that you

00:56:35 ◼   ► know, you can do that.

00:56:36 ◼   ► I use SoftRaid, and I have a I have a four-drive array, and it's

00:56:42 ◼   ► great.

00:56:43 ◼   ► Um and redundant, so like if one of the drives dies, all the data's

00:56:47 ◼   ► still there.

00:56:48 ◼   ► Just put in another drive and it syncs it all up.

00:56:52 ◼   ► Um it's a Mac, which means that the downside is to Steven's point, it's

00:56:57 ◼   ► not a server OS.

00:56:58 ◼   ► There is usually software that can do the things you want, but you have

00:57:01 ◼   ► to do them.

00:57:02 ◼   ► The upside is everything you do to interact with that thing is in the

00:57:08 ◼   ► context of the Mac and Mac OS and Mac OS software, which is more

00:57:14 ◼   ► comfortable.

00:57:16 ◼   ► Honestly, that's it.

00:57:17 ◼   ► And when when I advise anybody about this, that's what I say is something

00:57:21 ◼   ► like Synology, they've tried to make it very easy to use, but you are

00:57:24 ◼   ► welcoming a Unix system essentially into your life that is tried to be friendly,

00:57:29 ◼   ► like with web pages and things like that.

00:57:32 ◼   ► You could probably do it.

00:57:34 ◼   ► But my fear is you're gonna hit something and you're gonna be like, oh

00:57:38 ◼   ► no, and have lots of sadness and regrets.

00:57:41 ◼   ► The Mac is gonna be less capable, but more recognizable and understandable to you.

00:57:48 ◼   ► So that's your decision.

00:57:49 ◼   ► I think the Synology's come uh a pretty long way.

00:57:52 ◼   ► I mean, uh there may be things you need to do that are nerdy,

00:57:56 ◼   ► but it it has been designed, I think, um, for more and more people

00:58:00 ◼   ► to use, and it has a really good community around it.

00:58:03 ◼   ► So if you do run into something weird, um, there's lots of people using

00:58:07 ◼   ► them, you can just call Casey because he has six of them.

00:58:11 ◼   ► Sure.

00:58:12 ◼   ► One thing Jason said sprung an idea uh in my head is depending on

00:58:17 ◼   ► how you have your network set up and how you have this set up,

00:58:20 ◼   ► and you can do this with a Mac, but because the Synology basically has

00:58:25 ◼   ► like this like web front end thing, you can access it from anywhere.

00:58:30 ◼   ► So if you're at home and someone needs something, you don't have to deal

00:58:34 ◼   ► with, I mean, you can I mean with tail scale and stuff, it's easier

00:58:37 ◼   ► than ever to Mac screen share across the internet.

00:58:40 ◼   ► But yeah, I just use use screens, but yeah.

00:58:43 ◼   ► Yeah, so so that that is it is maybe it's not a benefit, but

00:58:46 ◼   ► it's also there on the Synology, that that sort of remote access stuff.

00:58:50 ◼   ► Don't get me wrong, I think Synology, a Synology workstation to solve the problem

00:58:55 ◼   ► that Mike has probably the right solution or ubiquity or whatever, you know, yeah,

00:59:00 ◼   ► but but I think this is is the right solution here, except that you

00:59:07 ◼   ► have to take on the idea that it is less familiar and could be

00:59:13 ◼   ► frustrating.

00:59:14 ◼   ► But I haven't also haven't used a server like this in a while.

00:59:17 ◼   ► I'm sure that it's pretty good.

00:59:19 ◼   ► I'm sure they've done a lot of work to make the web interface very

00:59:22 ◼   ► full featured and friendly and not requiring people to do scary stuff, even though

00:59:27 ◼   ► you can do scary stuff.

00:59:28 ◼   ► And the danger in both of these platforms, by the way, and it's not

00:59:31 ◼   ► one or the other, is there's some stuff that you're gonna want to do,

00:59:34 ◼   ► and they're gonna be like, Yeah, you could totally do that.

00:59:36 ◼   ► Now open up a terminal window and install this thing.

00:59:39 ◼   ► And like both because I have that on the Mac too.

00:59:41 ◼   ► I I'm running some stuff on the Mac that is like not friendly and

00:59:46 ◼   ► not Mac software to do stuff, and that's the danger is you end up

00:59:49 ◼   ► in this scenario where you're like, um, oh, I'm tempted to do this thing,

00:59:54 ◼   ► and then you fall down a Unix hole and it's very bad.

00:59:57 ◼   ► But I'm sure that at the top level, the functionality of the NAS is

01:00:02 ◼   ► going to be better for you.

01:00:03 ◼   ► It's gonna have built in most of or all of what you want to

01:00:06 ◼   ► do.

01:00:07 ◼   ► I'm just a little worried about Mike reacting badly to some of the stuff

01:00:14 ◼   ► that it does because it will feel so foreign.

01:00:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:17 ◼   ► Um, so you gotta be you gotta be strong and you gotta be committed

01:00:21 ◼   ► if you do this.

01:00:22 ◼   ► You just gotta go in with your eyes open.

01:00:24 ◼   ► Your instinct is absolutely correct.

01:00:26 ◼   ► I mean, this instinct is something that is born from exactly what you mentioned

01:00:31 ◼   ► that you say to me, do this, and I say, I don't want to

01:00:34 ◼   ► do this.

01:00:34 ◼   ► Can you do it?

01:00:35 ◼   ► And then you do it for me.

01:00:36 ◼   ► Um like even down to like uh like isotope, right?

01:00:40 ◼   ► Like the yeah, you're like, Oh, I gotta isotope that file, and like, oh

01:00:43 ◼   ► yeah, you should do it.

01:00:44 ◼   ► So and then you do it for me.

01:00:47 ◼   ► Uh to be fair, this week we had an exchange where I said, I

01:00:50 ◼   ► said we need to make the wallpapers for design in California, and Mike's response

01:00:53 ◼   ► was, yeah, you know, one of us could do it.

01:00:55 ◼   ► And I said, Well, it's not gonna be me, which is fine.

01:00:58 ◼   ► Uh well, we each have uh uh desires and strengths and weaknesses, you know,

01:01:02 ◼   ► someone's gonna do and someone's not.

01:01:04 ◼   ► Here's the thing my ideal scenario is that it's just a big drive connected

01:01:10 ◼   ► to a Mac because I understand how to use that.

01:01:12 ◼   ► But the the problem is it doesn't, I don't I don't then have like

01:01:16 ◼   ► a good way to easily I want to be able to just share the

01:01:20 ◼   ► file without moving it.

01:01:21 ◼   ► I don't want to move it.

01:01:24 ◼   ► But then the question is how often am I actually gonna need to do

01:01:27 ◼   ► that?

01:01:28 ◼   ► This is the thing that I don't know.

01:01:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:29 ◼   ► Maybe I don't need to do it that much, and so it's actually not

01:01:34 ◼   ► that much of a problem.

01:01:29 ◼   ► Right.

01:01:35 ◼   ► If if you work like Jason does, like Dropbox is sort of the the

01:01:39 ◼   ► current stuff, and then when it's what it's going to be anyway.

01:01:43 ◼   ► Right.

01:01:43 ◼   ► And when it's done, it just gets archived off to your local storage.

01:01:49 ◼   ► And I mean, what's the worst case scenario, right?

01:01:51 ◼   ► So so say that you are and um you've archived something and suddenly somebody

01:01:58 ◼   ► needs it.

01:01:58 ◼   ► Well, you can remote it into that Mac and you have Dropbox running on

01:02:02 ◼   ► it, and you have the storage attached, and you just drag it back into

01:02:05 ◼   ► Dropbox, right?

01:02:06 ◼   ► Like that's not the end of the world.

01:02:08 ◼   ► No, it's not.

01:02:09 ◼   ► And I already do it, I spent a lot of time getting a Mac

01:02:13 ◼   ► just like that.

01:02:13 ◼   ► It sits over there.

01:02:15 ◼   ► Right.

01:02:15 ◼   ► Like, and so maybe maybe the best thing to do is that then.

01:02:19 ◼   ► That I just get an enclosure, buy a bunch of drives, invest in some

01:02:25 ◼   ► software to like do raid on it and stuff, and then just run it

01:02:28 ◼   ► that way.

01:02:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:29 ◼   ► Because you're right, like it is going to be an easier thing for me

01:02:32 ◼   ► to understand.

01:02:33 ◼   ► And I and I am I will have less frustration, I think, if it's

01:02:37 ◼   ► su if it is just something that is connected to a Mac, which has

01:02:40 ◼   ► the Dropbox account on it that I would be pulling the stuff from anyway.

01:02:45 ◼   ► And I have Tail Scales set up now, which is so I would never

01:02:49 ◼   ► I would not have done this before Tailscale, because I could not remote into

01:02:53 ◼   ► the studio before Tail Scale.

01:02:55 ◼   ► I don't I don't know enough about what it does differently, but it was

01:02:59 ◼   ► just a thing that would not work with any system that I tried.

01:03:02 ◼   ► But Tailscale has made that work for me.

01:03:05 ◼   ► And so like I feel confident that because I've done it a bunch of

01:03:08 ◼   ► times already.

01:03:09 ◼   ► Like and just go in and like do something on the Mac that sits

01:03:12 ◼   ► here on this network now all the time.

01:03:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:14 ◼   ► So maybe I well then okay.

01:03:18 ◼   ► What company should I be looking at for just a good drive enclosure to

01:03:22 ◼   ► put a bunch of drives in?

01:03:24 ◼   ► Mine's from OWC.

01:03:26 ◼   ► Okay.

01:03:26 ◼   ► Which is like max sales.com, I think.

01:03:29 ◼   ► Um and they sell them with drives or without.

01:03:32 ◼   ► You can provide your own drives or not.

01:03:34 ◼   ► And they also own soft raid.

01:03:36 ◼   ► So you you get it comes with a version of soft raid that works

01:03:40 ◼   ► with that enclosure.

01:03:42 ◼   ► Um they're all like Thunderbolt enclosures, and you know, they make them at this

01:03:47 ◼   ► point.

01:03:47 ◼   ► I dream on having a uh uh an SSD raid at some point, but

01:03:53 ◼   ► uh that that's even more expensive.

01:03:56 ◼   ► You can buy a car, so yeah, you basically you you put in so

01:03:59 ◼   ► I've got like four four spinning disks in there.

01:04:02 ◼   ► Yeah, and the I will say the other the other issue with anything in

01:04:06 ◼   ► your life that is a bunch of spinning disks is kind of noisy, yeah.

01:04:12 ◼   ► So big enough.

01:04:13 ◼   ► Your studio is enormous, so I I just put it far away from you.

01:04:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:17 ◼   ► I will honestly we'll put it on the desk that you sat at.

01:04:21 ◼   ► So that's far enough away from me.

01:04:23 ◼   ► Maybe.

01:04:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:24 ◼   ► Jason, how has SoftRaid been for you?

01:04:27 ◼   ► I've used hardware raid for so long for this stuff.

01:04:30 ◼   ► Back in the day, software raid was like really frowned upon and kind of

01:04:35 ◼   ► sketchy, but you've been running it for a long time.

01:04:38 ◼   ► How has your experience been?

01:04:39 ◼   ► Yeah, rock solid, honestly.

01:04:43 ◼   ► Um it since I've been so I had a Drobo for a long time

01:04:47 ◼   ► and then it died, and I I basically said never again and bought this

01:04:52 ◼   ► RAID instead.

01:04:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:53 ◼   ► And Drobo's gone.

01:04:54 ◼   ► And they're gone, they're gone, long gone.

01:04:57 ◼   ► Um, but you know, you can have the same thing.

01:04:58 ◼   ► I have I have RAID five, which means that there's data on every bit

01:04:59 ◼   ► of data you have is redundant.

01:05:07 ◼   ► It's it's on two disks.

01:05:09 ◼   ► So that's the thing where if one disk just completely dies, you've lost no

01:05:13 ◼   ► data.

01:05:15 ◼   ► Um you pull that disk out, you put a new disk in, it rebuilds

01:05:20 ◼   ► the, you know, recopies everything, and it's but it's always the data is secure,

01:05:24 ◼   ► which is awesome.

01:05:25 ◼   ► And you can set that up fairly easily in soft raid.

01:05:28 ◼   ► And then it just kind of runs.

01:05:30 ◼   ► There's software updates you run every now and then.

01:05:32 ◼   ► I think the soft rate driver is actually in Mac OS because it has

01:05:36 ◼   ► to be it's like a low-level kind of kernel thing.

01:05:40 ◼   ► And I think Apple just includes it, rides along with the OS.

01:05:44 ◼   ► So sometimes there'll be a software update, and the OS update will update the

01:05:48 ◼   ► soft raid driver, which is kind of wild.

01:05:50 ◼   ► But um, it's solid, you know, and then and it will throw an error.

01:05:54 ◼   ► That's another nice thing about it.

01:05:55 ◼   ► Is like I got at one point, I've only had this one time since

01:05:58 ◼   ► I've been using soft raid.

01:05:59 ◼   ► I had a drive where it said this drive is putting it's like the

01:06:04 ◼   ► yellow warning light.

01:06:05 ◼   ► It's like this drive is going to fail, but it has not yet failed.

01:06:08 ◼   ► And I got a notification and stepped through the steps of pulling that drive,

01:06:14 ◼   ► putting in the new drive.

01:06:16 ◼   ► It got back up to speed and and I was back up and running.

01:06:19 ◼   ► So mine are right now.

01:06:21 ◼   ► I have two 12 terabyte disks and two eight terabyte disks in my RAID,

01:06:27 ◼   ► which nets out to I've got a time machine partition that's four terabytes, and

01:06:32 ◼   ► a storage partition that's 24 terabytes.

01:06:35 ◼   ► That's where I am right now.

01:06:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:37 ◼   ► I I would definitely do four drives.

01:06:40 ◼   ► I would not do two.

01:06:42 ◼   ► Two two your option is just mirroring.

01:06:44 ◼   ► I mean you could stripe them, but you don't have any backup.

01:06:46 ◼   ► Or you don't have any I'm a big proponent of RAID five.

01:06:44 ◼   ► I mean it's basically that's okay.

01:06:51 ◼   ► You want a system where if a drive if there's literally a hardware, these

01:06:54 ◼   ► are spinning disks, hardware failure, you're fine.

01:06:58 ◼   ► Yep.

01:06:58 ◼   ► Uh yeah absolutely and so you know that that does you know again increase

01:07:04 ◼   ► the price.

01:07:04 ◼   ► But you were looking at a four drive Synology anyways.

01:07:08 ◼   ► Synology yeah.

01:07:09 ◼   ► Yeah I think I think if I mean I think a Synology would be

01:07:15 ◼   ► fine, but I do think I've changed my mind a little bit in talking

01:07:18 ◼   ► through this that yeah if if you're pretty confident like the Dropbox is the

01:07:26 ◼   ► this you know the the active stuff and you move this stuff off then

01:07:31 ◼   ► um yeah you do sort of have two sources and if you move something

01:07:37 ◼   ► back to Dropbox you kind of have just like a make a mental note

01:07:40 ◼   ► of you know what's where but again how often is that going to be

01:07:45 ◼   ► the case.

01:07:46 ◼   ► I mean most likely if I'm gonna move something I'm just gonna send someone

01:07:49 ◼   ► a zip file.

01:07:50 ◼   ► Like I'm gonna put zip file and Dropbox a little bit like it's it's

01:07:52 ◼   ► not you know I think I think tail scale has a file transfer something

01:07:57 ◼   ► to that you may be able to use where you basically tell tail scale

01:08:01 ◼   ► draw that I'm gonna gonna use this and and then somebody can get it

01:08:05 ◼   ► from you.

01:08:06 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:08:07 ◼   ► I'm sure that that this is the thing is I'm sure there's a Mac

01:08:11 ◼   ► solution to the thing you're worried about which is can I just share an

01:08:15 ◼   ► arbitrary file off of my server with somebody at any point.

01:08:19 ◼   ► I'm sure there is a Mac solution for that.

01:08:22 ◼   ► Um it's just that you know, again, this is the trade-off is you will

01:08:26 ◼   ► have to find that max solution and install it, but it'll be in a

01:08:28 ◼   ► Mac interface, which you're familiar with.

01:08:30 ◼   ► I'm sure Synology just does it out of the box.

01:08:32 ◼   ► It will just be in an unfamiliar it honestly.

01:08:35 ◼   ► This is a vibe vibes question a little bit.

01:08:38 ◼   ► It's like, do you want to say, I'm gonna do it?

01:08:41 ◼   ► I'm gonna go all in on Synology and I'm gonna learn this stuff, and

01:08:44 ◼   ► I'm gonna get over my anxiety and I'm gonna do it.

01:08:47 ◼   ► Or you're are you like, I got bigger fish to fry, I'm gonna go

01:08:50 ◼   ► with what's comfortable to me.

01:08:51 ◼   ► Because I think in the end it's about what what's gonna be the choice

01:08:54 ◼   ► that make that you're more most comfortable with slash willing to invest emotional resources

01:09:00 ◼   ► in.

01:09:01 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I think I'm I think now I just need to find some

01:09:04 ◼   ► uh now.

01:09:05 ◼   ► I just need to find uh what enclosure to buy and then just start

01:09:09 ◼   ► from there again.

01:09:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:09:11 ◼   ► Back to the beginning.

01:09:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:09:12 ◼   ► OWC has they call it the Thunder Bay 4, four drives.

01:09:17 ◼   ► It's Thunderbolt.

01:09:18 ◼   ► You definitely want Thunderbolt for this.

01:09:20 ◼   ► I mean, these drives are not gonna be fast, don't limit it.

01:09:23 ◼   ► It's Thunderbolt 3.

01:09:25 ◼   ► What do we think about that?

01:09:26 ◼   ► That's fine.

01:09:26 ◼   ► But I have that's what I have.

01:09:28 ◼   ► That's fine.

01:09:28 ◼   ► Okay.

01:09:28 ◼   ► I have a I have an OWC Thunder Bay 4 and it's uh it's

01:09:34 ◼   ► a Canada reference.

01:09:36 ◼   ► Thunder Bay is a city in Canada.

01:09:38 ◼   ► Um, and that's what I have with with, like I said, the the four

01:09:42 ◼   ► discs, 12, 12, 8, 8 for me, because I I think I stocked mine

01:09:45 ◼   ► originally when there were only eights available, and then a couple of them died,

01:09:49 ◼   ► and I replaced them with 12s because why not?

01:09:53 ◼   ► Yeah, but yeah, and you know, you're starting out like it looking at their

01:09:57 ◼   ► thing.

01:09:57 ◼   ► You can you can bring your own drives, um, or you can get them

01:10:01 ◼   ► with what they call enterprise hard drive models.

01:10:04 ◼   ► I don't know what that is.

01:10:06 ◼   ► If you do buy your own drives, you want something that is designed for

01:10:11 ◼   ► use in a NAS, uh some drives, um, they're designed slightly differently with the

01:10:19 ◼   ► um the reality that they're running side by side, right?

01:10:24 ◼   ► And there's gonna be noise and vibration and and heat around them.

01:10:27 ◼   ► And so I use WD reds.

01:10:30 ◼   ► That's what's in mine, and I've had very good luck with them over the

01:10:33 ◼   ► years.

01:10:34 ◼   ► I have seven eight terabyte in uh WD reds in my RAID, and it

01:10:40 ◼   ► it's been great.

01:10:41 ◼   ► Um I bought I bought those several years ago when it was far less

01:10:46 ◼   ► expensive.

01:10:46 ◼   ► Yes.

01:10:47 ◼   ► Same I would not do, I would not fill all seven drive bays in

01:10:51 ◼   ► my RAID now.

01:10:52 ◼   ► Um if I was starting to be.

01:10:53 ◼   ► According to Soft RAID, I have three of my drives have been used for

01:10:59 ◼   ► about 55,000 hours, and then one for 8,000 hours.

01:11:04 ◼   ► That's the one that got replaced.

01:11:06 ◼   ► Yeah, but you know, they're there's they're still going.

01:11:11 ◼   ► What did you US and digital reds?

01:11:13 ◼   ► You said?

01:11:14 ◼   ► Yeah, that's what I'm using.

01:11:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:15 ◼   ► A four terabyte.

01:11:16 ◼   ► Four terabyte western digital red is 200 pounds right now.

01:11:20 ◼   ► Yeah, that's rough.

01:11:22 ◼   ► And that's too small.

01:11:23 ◼   ► Yeah, because with because with RAID five, so you have four drives, say they're

01:11:28 ◼   ► each what do you say, two terabytes?

01:11:31 ◼   ► I said four terabytes.

01:11:33 ◼   ► So you're gonna lose the capacity of two of them to the internal mirror,

01:11:38 ◼   ► and you're gonna lose a little bit of the capacity of the other two

01:11:41 ◼   ► due to overhead.

01:11:43 ◼   ► And so with four four terabyte drives, you may come out with something like

01:11:49 ◼   ► I don't know, like uh seven terabytes of storage.

01:11:55 ◼   ► No, I've messed that up.

01:11:56 ◼   ► Something like that.

01:11:57 ◼   ► So I probably want to start with six terabyte drives then, right?

01:12:01 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm trying to see if there's a calculator online.

01:12:04 ◼   ► Four, four terabyts.

01:12:05 ◼   ► Oh, RAID capacity calculator.

01:12:07 ◼   ► Look at this.

01:12:08 ◼   ► RAID five, four terabyte, four terabyte, four terabyte, four terabyte.

01:12:14 ◼   ► Uh you would end up with 12 terabytes of capacity for with RAID 5

01:12:19 ◼   ► with 4 terabyte drives.

01:12:21 ◼   ► Oh, I think that's fine.

01:12:23 ◼   ► Right?

01:12:24 ◼   ► Yeah, that's fine.

01:12:25 ◼   ► If you went to six, I mean you're gonna, it'll be a big jump

01:12:28 ◼   ► up.

01:12:28 ◼   ► Yeah, but they're like 300 pounds each.

01:12:32 ◼   ► Yeah, six is 18 terabytes.

01:12:34 ◼   ► And again, you can I'm looking on the Amazon store right now, and the

01:12:36 ◼   ► six the six terabyte western digital reds are right now, they're on sale, believe

01:12:43 ◼   ► it or not.

01:12:43 ◼   ► So they're only like 319 each, and the four is two ninety-five.

01:12:47 ◼   ► Uh in which case I would totally get the sixes.

01:12:49 ◼   ► Yeah, me too.

01:12:51 ◼   ► Because they're not that much more expensive, but depends on where you're buying and

01:12:53 ◼   ► if the if there's value there.

01:12:55 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, no, I can see it actually similar.

01:12:58 ◼   ► I'm looking at a different side.

01:12:59 ◼   ► I don't know what's wrong with these six terabyte reds.

01:13:02 ◼   ► They're like it's 260 for four or two hundred and eighty for six.

01:13:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:07 ◼   ► And I I did mis misspeak.

01:13:09 ◼   ► RAID five, you only lose one of the drives to redundancy.

01:13:11 ◼   ► That's why my math was wrong.

01:13:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:13 ◼   ► Um, also, I know drives are expensive.

01:13:17 ◼   ► My recommendation is if you're gonna do a four-disc array, yeah, buy five discs.

01:13:22 ◼   ► Yes, you want a cold spare.

01:13:24 ◼   ► You want one that you can stick in if you have a problem.

01:13:29 ◼   ► Okay.

01:13:30 ◼   ► I knew this was gonna be an expensive project.

01:13:32 ◼   ► It is.

01:13:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:33 ◼   ► Well, the cheap version is I was looking around and I was like, how

01:13:36 ◼   ► many USB SSDs that are like one terabyte do I have laying around?

01:13:41 ◼   ► And could they all get together?

01:13:46 ◼   ► This brand, like the company that I'm looking at right now, they will only

01:13:50 ◼   ► let me buy four.

01:13:52 ◼   ► It's a limit of four per capita.

01:13:54 ◼   ► Shortages.

01:13:55 ◼   ► You could you could also look the Seagate drive, I believe, is the Ironwolf.

01:14:00 ◼   ► So there are other options.

01:14:01 ◼   ► I just had good luck with WD Reds.

01:14:04 ◼   ► I just sort of picked one.

01:14:05 ◼   ► Because they're all gonna fail eventually, right?

01:14:07 ◼   ► That's that's the truth of this.

01:14:10 ◼   ► And so I believe I my my drives are even distributed.

01:14:15 ◼   ► I think I have Ironwolves and WD Reds.

01:14:18 ◼   ► Nice in mind.

01:14:19 ◼   ► Oh, it's the Seagate Iron Wolfs are cheaper than uh Yeah, then there you

01:14:24 ◼   ► go.

01:14:24 ◼   ► Quite a bit cheaper, actually.

01:14:26 ◼   ► The warranty may be shorter, that may be part of it, but yeah, you

01:14:30 ◼   ► know.

01:14:31 ◼   ► Warranty Schmorranty.

01:14:32 ◼   ► That's right.

01:14:33 ◼   ► Live on the edge with a raid protecting your data.

01:14:36 ◼   ► Wow, okay.

01:14:36 ◼   ► I just looked the the last drive I bought was an Ironwolf 12 when

01:14:40 ◼   ► I had that failure.

01:14:41 ◼   ► Uh currently it's 429 for for that.

01:14:48 ◼   ► Blaze it.

01:14:49 ◼   ► I paid 224.

01:14:52 ◼   ► Jeez.

01:14:53 ◼   ► In 2020, in in less than i actually, oh my god.

01:14:58 ◼   ► A year ago today, in fact, I bought that drive.

01:15:02 ◼   ► Happy anniversary.

01:15:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:04 ◼   ► Well, so that's easy to calculate how much price has changed in a year

01:15:09 ◼   ► there.

01:15:09 ◼   ► The Seagate Iron Wolf drive that I just mentioned is one per customer.

01:15:13 ◼   ► Where are you looking?

01:15:14 ◼   ► Uh there's a company called Scan in the UK.

01:15:16 ◼   ► They're really double price on.

01:15:19 ◼   ► Thanks, AI.

01:15:21 ◼   ► I'm trying to support you know.

01:15:24 ◼   ► Bezos needs your money.

01:15:25 ◼   ► That's true.

01:15:26 ◼   ► That's true.

01:15:28 ◼   ► Casey, I don't know.

01:15:29 ◼   ► Maybe he's got another wedding he's got to do sometime.

01:15:31 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:15:31 ◼   ► Wow.

01:15:29 ◼   ► You never know.

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01:17:03 ◼   ► Relay.

01:17:06 ◼   ► It is now time, gentlemen, for some mask upgrade questions.

01:17:12 ◼   ► I went into your form and took a question.

01:17:17 ◼   ► Steven, I need those.

01:17:20 ◼   ► Okay.

01:17:20 ◼   ► I just took three.

01:17:21 ◼   ► I just took three of them.

01:17:22 ◼   ► I just took three.

01:17:24 ◼   ► Okay.

01:17:26 ◼   ► Edward asks, do you think that the Apple upgrade program will level out Apple's

01:17:31 ◼   ► profits throughout the year?

01:17:33 ◼   ► No.

01:17:36 ◼   ► No.

01:17:37 ◼   ► Um the boring answer is that I imagine the way that they will book

01:17:41 ◼   ► the revenue.

01:17:42 ◼   ► Yes.

01:17:43 ◼   ► Because it's a lease and there's Klarna, is that they'll book the complete value

01:17:48 ◼   ► of the phone when they start.

01:17:52 ◼   ► And then that's my guess is that is that it will.

01:17:56 ◼   ► And I doubt it's US only, and only a certain percentage of people are

01:17:59 ◼   ► going to do it for any product.

01:18:03 ◼   ► And I I just can't see that it'll make that much of a difference.

01:18:06 ◼   ► If yes, if the grand uh vision that Mark German laid out in his

01:18:09 ◼   ► report about this, where he's like, Apple could become the biggest subscription company in

01:18:13 ◼   ► the world.

01:18:13 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, maybe eventually everything just becomes services revenue, but I I think

01:18:17 ◼   ► it's a long way before we like take take all of Apple's revenue for

01:18:21 ◼   ► a year, divide it by four and pop it into each quarter.

01:18:23 ◼   ► I think that's I think that's not very likely.

01:18:26 ◼   ► I don't think they want that.

01:18:27 ◼   ► Um I don't I don't think it benefits them to have like let's imagine

01:18:33 ◼   ► they could get into a world where they completely leveled out the revenue.

01:18:37 ◼   ► Like I just don't think they would want that.

01:18:39 ◼   ► I think they like the spikes, right?

01:18:41 ◼   ► Like that that's it's fun to have these big blowouts.

01:18:45 ◼   ► But also, yeah, I just agree with Jason.

01:18:47 ◼   ► I I also don't if this thing became really popular and they didn't book

01:18:51 ◼   ► the revenue like that, then their revenue will fall off a cliff.

01:18:55 ◼   ► Right.

01:18:56 ◼   ► Like, which would they also wouldn't want to set up that way.

01:18:59 ◼   ► Like if everybody in America buys their iPhone on the upgrade program, they would

01:19:04 ◼   ► have terrible results.

01:19:06 ◼   ► And I don't think that they would want to uh position it like that.

01:19:09 ◼   ► But I also think whilst this is an interesting uh thing that they can

01:19:13 ◼   ► offer, I don't think it's gonna be massively popular because people buy their phones

01:19:16 ◼   ► with their carriers.

01:19:17 ◼   ► Like that's how they do it, and they're just gonna keep doing that.

01:19:20 ◼   ► Um but the people that use the upgrade program, I actually think this is

01:19:25 ◼   ► a product that is better for Mac and iPad sales than it is for

01:19:29 ◼   ► iPhone sales.

01:19:31 ◼   ► For just they are much more expensive things that people buy less frequently, and

01:19:36 ◼   ► so the idea of just spreading that cost out over a long, long, long

01:19:40 ◼   ► period of time um is maybe a bit more um it makes it feel

01:19:46 ◼   ► nicer.

01:19:47 ◼   ► Um but yeah.

01:19:49 ◼   ► I tell you, I was so happy to be away and not have to

01:19:53 ◼   ► talk about this in any detail over the last week.

01:19:55 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:19:55 ◼   ► Yeah, lucky to make one could not be more boring of a of a

01:20:00 ◼   ► topic, really.

01:20:01 ◼   ► And Steven, thanks for making us feel so at home here with yeah, these

01:20:05 ◼   ► all these elements from upgrade.

01:20:07 ◼   ► The Discord is like Steven doesn't know how to be Steven knew how to

01:20:10 ◼   ► do a show.

01:20:11 ◼   ► Steven wanted to be on upgrade.

01:20:12 ◼   ► It's okay, you can do whatever you want.

01:20:14 ◼   ► You know why?

01:20:14 ◼   ► Because it's summer of fun!

01:20:16 ◼   ► Summer of fun!

01:20:19 ◼   ► See, there's another one for you.

01:20:20 ◼   ► Yeah, all the all the hits.

01:20:21 ◼   ► So playing all the hits.

01:20:24 ◼   ► Money, money, money.

01:20:26 ◼   ► Close.

01:20:28 ◼   ► Close.

01:20:29 ◼   ► He nearly got there.

01:20:31 ◼   ► Hey, what are the words to that song, Steven says?

01:20:34 ◼   ► Money, money, money, something, uh whatever.

01:20:37 ◼   ► Everyone has some of it.

01:20:39 ◼   ► Something like that.

01:20:40 ◼   ► Bezos, Bezos, Bezos.

01:20:43 ◼   ► Another Jason asks.

01:20:45 ◼   ► Last year I put off buying a new phone in part because of the

01:20:44 ◼   ► rumors of the folding phone.

01:20:50 ◼   ► While I'm still interested in that, I've become more intrigued by the iPhone Air,

01:20:54 ◼   ► even with the battery and camera compromises.

01:20:57 ◼   ► I haven't heard any rumors about a new air.

01:21:00 ◼   ► Is that just because all the full the fold takes all the air out

01:21:03 ◼   ► of the room?

01:21:03 ◼   ► Ah, or is the iPhone Air unlikely to get a refresh?

01:21:08 ◼   ► It's time for rumor roundup, Mike.

01:21:10 ◼   ► There'll be one.

01:21:11 ◼   ► There is going to be one, but it's going to be next year, right?

01:21:14 ◼   ► So there's like there have been rumors about a new iPhone Air, potentially with

01:21:18 ◼   ► a second camera.

01:21:20 ◼   ► And, you know, uh new system of chip would make it more efficient.

01:21:24 ◼   ► Personally, this is like just as as someone who's using an iPhone Air, I

01:21:29 ◼   ► really like it.

01:21:30 ◼   ► I would be okay with a little bit better battery life and less heat

01:21:35 ◼   ► if it didn't have the pro chip in it next year.

01:21:37 ◼   ► If the pro chip next year can do all the Apple intelligence stuff, maybe

01:21:40 ◼   ► that's also a way to.

01:21:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

01:21:43 ◼   ► Maybe people may be that as a downgrade, but the air, I think, is

01:21:48 ◼   ► gonna be in the spring.

01:21:51 ◼   ► And and so for me, that leaves me in an interesting place because I

01:21:55 ◼   ► really like the iPhone Air.

01:21:56 ◼   ► I will have the foldable phone because I'm gonna need it for my work.

01:22:00 ◼   ► But if I don't like You can just say you want it.

01:22:03 ◼   ► Like it's okay to say you want it.

01:22:05 ◼   ► I mean, look.

01:22:07 ◼   ► Gotta talk about it, gotta run apps on it.

01:22:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:10 ◼   ► It's a business expense if I keep talking about it this way.

01:22:13 ◼   ► But if I don't want to use it as my carry phone, uh I'm

01:22:17 ◼   ► gonna stay on the iPhone Air, I think, and then just like upgrade it

01:22:21 ◼   ► in the spring.

01:22:22 ◼   ► Like it is an interesting dilemma.

01:22:25 ◼   ► And there's always gonna be.

01:22:27 ◼   ► I mean, for the so for the regular phone, I don't think it matters

01:22:29 ◼   ► as much because people are on longer buying cycles, and I I think there'll

01:22:34 ◼   ► be some people be like, oh, why is there not an iPhone 18?

01:22:37 ◼   ► It's like, well, just wait to the spring, like people will, I think eventually

01:22:41 ◼   ► get word of that.

01:22:42 ◼   ► Um, but yeah, the air is gonna be also in the spring.

01:22:46 ◼   ► It'll get updated.

01:22:47 ◼   ► Uh I don't think they're gonna get rid of it after one year.

01:22:50 ◼   ► Um, is there an iPhone Air 3?

01:22:53 ◼   ► I don't know, but I think there will be a two.

01:22:56 ◼   ► The Air 2 rumors currently suggest more battery life um and a second camera.

01:23:03 ◼   ► So there you go.

01:23:05 ◼   ► They're gonna they're gonna if they do if they do do that, then they're

01:23:08 ◼   ► going to quote unquote fix the two biggest problems that are perceived by this

01:23:13 ◼   ► product, right?

01:23:14 ◼   ► It was battery and a single camera.

01:23:16 ◼   ► So if they find if they if they find a way to make that

01:23:21 ◼   ► work by the spring, it's gonna be another solid try.

01:23:24 ◼   ► But I think I think it is at this point clear to see that

01:23:28 ◼   ► that price point for Apple is a desert.

01:23:31 ◼   ► It is.

01:23:32 ◼   ► They have never put a product in there that seemed to make sense because

01:23:36 ◼   ► they keep changing it and nothing works.

01:23:40 ◼   ► I don't know why they they they feel they have to keep trying um

01:23:45 ◼   ► when it probably makes more sense to do what they're about to do, which

01:23:49 ◼   ► is just make a more expensive one.

01:23:52 ◼   ► Which we've been saying for a long time, right?

01:23:55 ◼   ► Like the name iPhone Ultra has been a we've been kicking that one around

01:23:58 ◼   ► for a long time.

01:24:01 ◼   ► Well, no.

01:24:03 ◼   ► We've been talking about it as just a more extreme, more expensive, more like

01:24:09 ◼   ► quirks and features iPhone, right?

01:24:11 ◼   ► Like we've been talking about it since the Apple Watch Ultra came out.

01:24:13 ◼   ► Like, oh, why don't they make a an iPhone that's more expensive?

01:24:16 ◼   ► Samsung does it right, like they have their ultra line of of their phones,

01:24:21 ◼   ► and it's just here's just the most expensive one and it with the most

01:24:24 ◼   ► amount of cameras, and it's gonna get all the big features first.

01:24:27 ◼   ► So it seems like they're they're not gonna go about that in the way

01:24:31 ◼   ► that we had initially thought they might, but now they're gonna give us the

01:24:36 ◼   ► most phone asterisk ever by being a foldable phone.

01:24:40 ◼   ► All right, final one.

01:24:44 ◼   ► MR asks with the Mac Mini getting more expensive.

01:24:47 ◼   ► Do you think it now makes sense for Apple to offer a Neo variant

01:24:51 ◼   ► of it?

01:24:51 ◼   ► Something that costs $399 with the internals of a MacBook and EA would be

01:24:55 ◼   ► fantastic as a home server machine.

01:24:57 ◼   ► And they go on to mention like the Apple Watch SE, the iPhone S

01:25:01 ◼   ► E now, that just the 17E.

01:25:03 ◼   ► Um, why not a cheaper Mac Mini?

01:25:06 ◼   ► I mean, the Mac Mini is the Mac Neo.

01:25:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:25:09 ◼   ► They just can't make it for cheap enough.

01:25:11 ◼   ► Remember, it was really cheap before.

01:25:13 ◼   ► Like it it was it was a very good price for a computer, but

01:25:18 ◼   ► they just can't make it at that level.

01:25:20 ◼   ► I I don't think it makes sense to make a desktop Mac less powerful

01:25:26 ◼   ► than that one.

01:25:26 ◼   ► I think I don't that I don't I don't see why you would do

01:25:29 ◼   ► that.

01:25:29 ◼   ► Just wait and then bring the Mac Mini back down to 499.

01:25:34 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree that look, everybody buys laptops three quarters of the Mac sold,

01:25:41 ◼   ► probably at least, or laptops.

01:25:44 ◼   ► Desktops are a niche.

01:25:46 ◼   ► The Mac Mini is the low price desktop.

01:25:49 ◼   ► That's like m like Mike said.

01:25:50 ◼   ► Uh and I don't think that Apple would see a lot of value.

01:25:53 ◼   ► Apple sees a lot of value in making a cheaper laptop because it goes

01:25:59 ◼   ► in schools, it goes to people, you know, people who might be reluctant to

01:25:59 ◼   ► spend money on a MacBook Air.

01:26:05 ◼   ► It gets them up against a lot of really interesting products like Chromebooks and

01:26:09 ◼   ► cheap PC laptops.

01:26:11 ◼   ► A cheaper Mac Mini, I just don't like I think the Mac Mini is

01:26:18 ◼   ► what they want to do there.

01:26:19 ◼   ► I think that's it.

01:26:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:20 ◼   ► And especially now that they have the Mac Studio.

01:26:22 ◼   ► I agree.

01:26:23 ◼   ► And I think actually the take of it would be a great home server

01:26:27 ◼   ► machine is actually not true.

01:26:28 ◼   ► If you look at the MacBook Neo, it is limited in I.O.

01:26:32 ◼   ► It's got USB C, like that, and then you have like the weird 2.0

01:26:37 ◼   ► thing going on.

01:26:38 ◼   ► One of the nice things about the Mac Mini is that there's quite a

01:26:42 ◼   ► bit of I.O.

01:26:43 ◼   ► for a machine so small.

01:26:44 ◼   ► You can get it with 10 gigabit Ethernet.

01:26:46 ◼   ► You've got a bunch of Thunderbolt ports out the back.

01:26:49 ◼   ► Like even though, even when they shrank it down, they kept a lot of

01:26:54 ◼   ► the I.O.

01:26:55 ◼   ► that that you know otherwise could could have gone, right?

01:26:58 ◼   ► They even got the little USB C ports on the front, right?

01:27:01 ◼   ► The iPhone chipset, at least as it stands today, isn't capable of that.

01:27:07 ◼   ► And maybe future ones will be, but not today.

01:27:12 ◼   ► And I think that that would I think there's a lot of people.

01:27:16 ◼   ► I think Jason, you said this in a Mac Wor PC years and years

01:27:19 ◼   ► ago.

01:27:19 ◼   ► I think about it all the time.

01:27:21 ◼   ► The Mac Mini is like the escape valve for the Mac lineup.

01:27:26 ◼   ► And it people do weird things with it and stick it in places.

01:27:29 ◼   ► And one reason people can do that is it's cheap and it's small, but

01:27:33 ◼   ► also because you can hook a bunch of stuff up to it.

01:27:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:27:36 ◼   ► I I think it's more likely that Apple would if if these prices are

01:27:42 ◼   ► going to continue for a while, I can see a scenario where Apple would

01:27:44 ◼   ► like decontent the Mac Mini a little bit to get it down to a

01:27:51 ◼   ► lower price, at least as a base model, and say things like, do we

01:27:56 ◼   ► need three Thunderbolt ports on the back kind of stuff?

01:28:01 ◼   ► Where, like, is the are there places that they could save some money?

01:28:04 ◼   ► So not creating a Mac Neo, but saying, are there things we could cheap

01:28:09 ◼   ► out on a little bit more on the Mac Mini to differentiate it, not

01:28:13 ◼   ► not just differentiate it from the Mac Studio, but also to get that base

01:28:16 ◼   ► price to come back down because it is really powerful.

01:28:23 ◼   ► Like even I know that it it starts at what six six ninety nine

01:28:28 ◼   ► now, seven ninety-nine now.

01:28:30 ◼   ► But like it's a whole thing, right?

01:28:32 ◼   ► It's got like a load of ports, like you said, Steven, and and thunderbolts,

01:28:37 ◼   ► it's fast.

01:28:39 ◼   ► Um and yeah, I uh if you use an iPhone chip, it would have

01:28:43 ◼   ► none of that.

01:28:44 ◼   ► But I do wonder if they might look at it, the existing Mac Mini

01:28:47 ◼   ► and say, is there a way for us to do a variant that's cheaper?

01:28:50 ◼   ► But even then, like I I even then I question because like they want

01:28:56 ◼   ► it to be what it is is what they want it to be, which

01:28:59 ◼   ► is fully featured, tiny, and a low price for what it is.

01:29:06 ◼   ► I think uh I think that does it for this week.

01:29:09 ◼   ► If you would like to send in your own ask upgrade questions to be

01:29:12 ◼   ► answered on a future episode of the show, just go to upgradefeedback.com and you

01:29:17 ◼   ► can send them in.

01:29:17 ◼   ► And Steven will read them.

01:29:19 ◼   ► And Steven will read them.

01:29:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:29:21 ◼   ► Even just to himself.

01:29:22 ◼   ► Uh-huh.

01:29:23 ◼   ► I just answered them to myself quietly.

01:29:25 ◼   ► I should go in there and steal them for blog post ideas.

01:29:28 ◼   ► That's what I should do.

01:29:29 ◼   ► There's loads of great stuff.

01:29:31 ◼   ► There's a lot of great stuff.

01:29:32 ◼   ► You guys get a lot of feedback.

01:29:33 ◼   ► People should leave more connected feedback, you know?

01:29:35 ◼   ► We get a little well, we get a lot of feedback because we have

01:29:38 ◼   ► specific places.

01:29:39 ◼   ► Right.

01:29:40 ◼   ► Like Snelltalk and Ask Upgrade just create a lot of feedback.

01:29:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:29:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:29:45 ◼   ► Plus plus regular follow-up stuff.

01:29:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:29:48 ◼   ► Anyways.

01:29:49 ◼   ► If you want the notes for the stuff we spoke about, they're in your

01:29:51 ◼   ► podcast player.

01:29:52 ◼   ► They're also on the web at relay.fm slash connected slash 615.

01:29:57 ◼   ► There you can leave us feedback and follow up.

01:29:59 ◼   ► Not that other show that came along after Connected.

01:30:03 ◼   ► Us, the originals.

01:30:04 ◼   ► You can leave us feedback.

01:30:06 ◼   ► You can also join and get Connected Pro, which is the longer and ad-free

01:30:10 ◼   ► version of the show that we do each and every week.

01:30:14 ◼   ► Members also get access to the relay Discord newsletter, some members only podcasts.

01:30:19 ◼   ► It's a great deal.

01:30:20 ◼   ► Go check it out at getconnectedpro.co.

01:30:23 ◼   ► If you want more of Mike, you can listen to a bunch of other

01:30:27 ◼   ► shows here on Relay and check out his work at Cortex Brand and his

01:30:30 ◼   ► blog at the enthusiast.net.

01:30:33 ◼   ► If you want to find Jason, you can find him on the upgrade program

01:30:37 ◼   ► here on Relay.

01:30:38 ◼   ► And of course, sixcolors.com, everyone's favorite multicolored Apple website.

01:30:43 ◼   ► You can find my writing at 512pixels.net.

01:30:47 ◼   ► I'll even think our sponsors, Squarespace, Backblaze, and Revenue Cat.

01:30:51 ◼   ► And until next week, guys, say goodbye.

01:30:55 ◼   ► Bye.

01:30:57 ◼   ► Cheerio.

01:30:58 ◼   ► Bye, y'all.