Connected

00:00:07 ◼   ► From Relay, this is Connected, episode six hundred and seventeen.

00:00:11 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Revenue Cat, Bolt.new and Squarespace.

00:00:15 ◼   ► My name is Mike, and I have the pleasure of introducing the keynote chairman,

00:00:19 ◼   ► Federicover TC.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Hi Federico.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Hello, Mike.

00:00:22 ◼   ► How are you?

00:00:23 ◼   ► I'm good.

00:00:23 ◼   ► How are you?

00:00:24 ◼   ► I'm good.

00:00:25 ◼   ► We're also joined by my esteemed colleague, the annual chairman, Steven Hackett.

00:00:29 ◼   ► Hello, Steven.

00:00:30 ◼   ► Hello, esteemed partner in the world.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Federico, we're getting pretty close to you putting that thing back up on the

00:00:37 ◼   ► line maybe two weeks from.

00:00:39 ◼   ► Oh yeah, you think so?

00:00:40 ◼   ► Well, it will go on the line.

00:00:42 ◼   ► I mean you can still win it, but like you have to put it

00:00:46 ◼   ► up to be one again.

00:00:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:49 ◼   ► Okay.

00:00:49 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:00:50 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:00:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:54 ◼   ► Like, is it gonna be September 9th?

00:00:56 ◼   ► Probably.

00:00:57 ◼   ► That is what people are suggesting.

00:00:59 ◼   ► I mean, you never really know of these things.

00:01:01 ◼   ► Which would mean next week for uh the confirmation if that's the case.

00:01:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:08 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:08 ◼   ► Yeah, that's what I was getting at.

00:01:10 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:11 ◼   ► So I would hope that we would probably know one way or another by

00:01:15 ◼   ► the time we record next week's episode.

00:01:17 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:17 ◼   ► I think so.

00:01:18 ◼   ► I bet invites are next Wednesday.

00:01:21 ◼   ► Yep.

00:01:22 ◼   ► Wild, man.

00:01:24 ◼   ► This year is flying by.

00:01:26 ◼   ► And like also, you know, in between now and then the CEO, don't forget

00:01:30 ◼   ► that.

00:01:30 ◼   ► Yeah, September 1st, right?

00:01:32 ◼   ► Uh-huh.

00:01:33 ◼   ► Imagine being John Turnus right now.

00:01:36 ◼   ► Pretty exciting and terrifying.

00:01:37 ◼   ► But so s it's gotta be so surreal.

00:01:40 ◼   ► Cause right now, right, he is at least, I guess, just trying to get

00:01:45 ◼   ► everything he can from Tim.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Right.

00:01:47 ◼   ► But come September 1st, Tim can't be sitting in that room with him anymore.

00:01:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:51 ◼   ► Because it will undermine him, right?

00:01:53 ◼   ► So it's it must be a he m I I c in this scenario,

00:01:57 ◼   ► I would be feeling frantic, right?

00:02:00 ◼   ► Of like how how many more things can I get Tim to do in

00:02:05 ◼   ► the next 10 days?

00:02:07 ◼   ► And then it's all me.

00:02:09 ◼   ► Well, at least he's gonna be on uh on the board, right?

00:02:11 ◼   ► Like it's it's not he can't make the decisions, but you can talk to

00:02:15 ◼   ► him, right?

00:02:15 ◼   ► It's like it's like going to see Yoda and like getting some wisdom and

00:02:20 ◼   ► then coming back and fighting your dad with the lightsaber.

00:02:22 ◼   ► Yes, but you can't have him in the meeting with you anymore.

00:02:25 ◼   ► You can't.

00:02:26 ◼   ► You can't.

00:02:28 ◼   ► Anyways, hello.

00:02:30 ◼   ► We have some follow-up.

00:02:31 ◼   ► We have some long-term follow-up.

00:02:34 ◼   ► We got an amazing post on Mastodon from listener John, who is wearing what

00:02:41 ◼   ► could be the best worst worst podcast shirt ever.

00:02:46 ◼   ► The organic megapixel pickles shirt standing next to an inflatable pickle jar.

00:02:53 ◼   ► Mike doesn't remember how this started, by the way.

00:02:56 ◼   ► No, I remember the job.

00:02:59 ◼   ► It was like I don't remember whether somebody said it by accident.

00:03:01 ◼   ► I did.

00:03:02 ◼   ► Yeah, right?

00:03:03 ◼   ► I still do not understand why that made it to a t-shirt.

00:03:08 ◼   ► Because you were gone.

00:03:09 ◼   ► That's the thing that I don't know.

00:03:11 ◼   ► Because you were gone, and we that was when I think we put all

00:03:16 ◼   ► the shirts on back on sale.

00:03:18 ◼   ► And then Federico and I like, I made this one, and and he um

00:03:23 ◼   ► very correctly told me it was bad, and then we put it on sale.

00:03:26 ◼   ► Yeah, but like these this is I understand and know this chain of events.

00:03:30 ◼   ► I still don't know how we get to the shirt is on sale, right?

00:03:34 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, it's it was a fake state.

00:03:37 ◼   ► It has created this incredible moment for John and all of us.

00:03:41 ◼   ► Yeah, this picture's awesome.

00:03:42 ◼   ► It's so good.

00:03:43 ◼   ► I I respect so much that John got his t-shirt in green.

00:03:49 ◼   ► Yes.

00:03:50 ◼   ► That I think I did sell in other colours, but yeah, green is the

00:03:52 ◼   ► right, is the is the canonical color.

00:03:54 ◼   ► Green was obviously the right colour for the pickle shop.

00:03:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:58 ◼   ► For sure.

00:03:59 ◼   ► I'm very excited about this follow-up.

00:04:02 ◼   ► Comes in from Pierre.

00:04:03 ◼   ► Oh boy.

00:04:04 ◼   ► Who is uh you remember when I got really upset?

00:04:06 ◼   ► And all that news article and that news article from from from Australia.

00:04:11 ◼   ► There was actually somebody who wrote in uh I I d I don't know

00:04:14 ◼   ► if you got rid of this uh feedback or not, yeah, Stephen, but it's

00:04:17 ◼   ► not it's not here in the notes.

00:04:19 ◼   ► Um, saying I I am Australian, and at first I got really upset about

00:04:24 ◼   ► the slander to Australia, and then realized you were talking about channel news, and

00:04:27 ◼   ► you were right because it's terrible.

00:04:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:29 ◼   ► So I I think that was maybe on Mastodon somewhere.

00:04:32 ◼   ► I saw that.

00:04:33 ◼   ► Okay.

00:04:33 ◼   ► Pierre wrote in and said, I've worked in telecommunications for 10 years, and I

00:04:37 ◼   ► doubt that an Australian carrier would have the reported information.

00:04:41 ◼   ► Telcos are not informed of what models Apple is going to release.

00:04:45 ◼   ► They discover everything SKUs, dates, pricing, during or after the keynote.

00:04:50 ◼   ► The only thing they might know and test in advance are telecom-related features like

00:04:54 ◼   ► eSIM or Solia, even then they would not know specific specifics about the iPhone

00:04:59 ◼   ► Ultra.

00:05:00 ◼   ► I had this thought in the shower two days later.

00:05:03 ◼   ► I've been thinking about this so much.

00:05:05 ◼   ► This is well, you think about in the shower, okay.

00:05:07 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:05:07 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:08 ◼   ► That's a good time because boys, sometimes showers where I get sad.

00:05:13 ◼   ► Isn't that weird?

00:05:14 ◼   ► Well, things that are bothering me, I think about them in the shower.

00:05:18 ◼   ► But anyway, this was bothering me but in a different way.

00:05:21 ◼   ► Because nobody can know that you're crying.

00:05:23 ◼   ► No one can hear.

00:05:24 ◼   ► I'm crying when I'm in the shower.

00:05:26 ◼   ► There's there's like a three-second shot and arrested development of Tobias crying in the

00:05:31 ◼   ► shower.

00:05:31 ◼   ► That's what I is the water on or not.

00:05:29 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:05:34 ◼   ► Cause it's that's why you can't tell, because like water streaming down his face.

00:05:37 ◼   ► And he's got the gene shots on.

00:05:39 ◼   ► Obviously, he's a never new.

00:05:40 ◼   ► That's so emo of you, Mike.

00:05:42 ◼   ► I love it.

00:05:42 ◼   ► It is, isn't it?

00:05:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:43 ◼   ► So I get sad.

00:05:44 ◼   ► Have you tried whiskey in the bathtub?

00:05:47 ◼   ► No, I don't think that's gonna make me feel any better if I'm being

00:05:49 ◼   ► around.

00:05:50 ◼   ► That's why I don't drink anymore, because that was a moment of my life

00:05:52 ◼   ► and I was thought, this can't go on.

00:05:54 ◼   ► That's not good.

00:05:55 ◼   ► You don't think about that anymore.

00:05:57 ◼   ► That was that was good of you to realize that about yourself.

00:05:59 ◼   ► But I'll keep crying in the shower.

00:06:01 ◼   ► But yes, like there's no way that Apple tells the carriers anything.

00:06:05 ◼   ► They don't know anything.

00:06:06 ◼   ► Because I was thinking about how hard it must be if you're ATT that

00:06:13 ◼   ► you know you have like three days to make a commercial.

00:06:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:18 ◼   ► Right?

00:06:18 ◼   ► That like you know it's coming, you have an idea, and then it's about

00:06:22 ◼   ► how quickly will Apple give you something that you can put in someone's hand.

00:06:27 ◼   ► It must be quite a thing.

00:06:28 ◼   ► But yes, thank you to Pierre for that excellent follow-up.

00:06:32 ◼   ► Very, very good.

00:06:33 ◼   ► Does uh Pierre work for a Channel News competitor?

00:06:37 ◼   ► Well, they say they work in telecommunications, so I'm gonna assume they work for

00:06:40 ◼   ► a carrier.

00:06:41 ◼   ► Okay.

00:06:41 ◼   ► Although they could be on the communications of the tele, and that could be

00:06:44 ◼   ► a website, you know.

00:06:46 ◼   ► Could be Steven, your prayers have been answered after what is honestly probably a

00:06:51 ◼   ► decade of complaining.

00:06:53 ◼   ► Uh things have reworked their repeating task feature.

00:06:56 ◼   ► Can you explain how it's better and if it's what you want?

00:07:00 ◼   ► Yes.

00:07:01 ◼   ► So I wrote about this in 2018.

00:07:04 ◼   ► So literally almost a decade.

00:07:06 ◼   ► I have talked about it longer than that.

00:07:08 ◼   ► So first of all, how are they still on things three?

00:07:11 ◼   ► It was like, man, wild.

00:07:13 ◼   ► Oh my gosh.

00:07:14 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I know.

00:07:15 ◼   ► Where's things four?

00:07:17 ◼   ► You know?

00:07:18 ◼   ► Uh at some point just stop the number.

00:07:14 ◼   ► I know.

00:07:21 ◼   ► Just like charge people for an upgrade.

00:07:23 ◼   ► Uh so Oh my god.

00:07:25 ◼   ► Say say the date again.

00:07:27 ◼   ► May May 2018.

00:07:29 ◼   ► 2018.

00:07:30 ◼   ► Wait, we are in 26, right?

00:07:31 ◼   ► We are.

00:07:32 ◼   ► 2026, yeah.

00:07:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:35 ◼   ► Okay.

00:07:35 ◼   ► I'm gonna do some additional Googling to find out when Things Three came out

00:07:38 ◼   ► while you explained.

00:07:39 ◼   ► I'm gonna I'm gonna say 2017.

00:07:42 ◼   ► I think it was earlier than that.

00:07:43 ◼   ► Anyways, as I wrote in 2018, like Things is amazing.

00:07:48 ◼   ► Anyone who's used it knows it.

00:07:49 ◼   ► It's beautiful, it syncs really well.

00:07:52 ◼   ► Uh it's very clever in a lot of the things that it does.

00:07:55 ◼   ► But it had a fundamental problem for people like me.

00:07:59 ◼   ► Like the vast majority of my task list is repeating tasks.

00:08:03 ◼   ► Like so much of my work is cyclical.

00:08:05 ◼   ► Like preparing for connected every week, publishing it every week, doing the books every

00:08:10 ◼   ► Friday, like whatever it is, like I have a lot of repeating tasks.

00:08:13 ◼   ► And in earlier versions of Things Three, you could not check a repeating task

00:08:19 ◼   ► off early.

00:08:21 ◼   ► So if you had something due the 10th of the month and you did

00:08:25 ◼   ► it the ninth of the month for some reason, you couldn't check it off

00:08:28 ◼   ► until the 10th.

00:08:30 ◼   ► Really, in my mind, really limiting.

00:08:33 ◼   ► And basically no other app works like this.

00:08:37 ◼   ► Um I um I wrote about that, and on the same day, things replied

00:08:44 ◼   ► to me on Twitter and said, Thanks for the feedback, Steven.

00:08:48 ◼   ► This is something we'll be adding, though we can't offer a specific date yet.

00:08:53 ◼   ► Yeah, go figure.

00:08:55 ◼   ► The date uh my friends three came out in May of twenty seventeen.

00:09:05 ◼   ► Well, the date was August 19th, 2026.

00:09:08 ◼   ► This is from the Cultured Code Code blog.

00:09:11 ◼   ► Repeating to-dos got more flexible with two highly requested improvements.

00:09:16 ◼   ► You can now complete them early and easily reschedule them when plans change.

00:09:24 ◼   ► I will say thing the Culture Code PR emailed me like a week ago.

00:09:29 ◼   ► They're okay.

00:09:30 ◼   ► We're doing it.

00:09:31 ◼   ► We can take your picture off the wall.

00:09:33 ◼   ► You know, it's it's it's coming.

00:09:35 ◼   ► Um I've played with it, and I think they nailed it.

00:09:37 ◼   ► Like I think they really really got it right.

00:09:40 ◼   ► It behaves not only how other apps behave, but still like in kind of

00:09:45 ◼   ► the uh things, you know, sort of like beautiful, well thought through design aspects

00:09:50 ◼   ► of it.

00:09:50 ◼   ► So um can I'm glad they fixed it.

00:09:53 ◼   ► It's it's uh been a long time coming, but I think they did a

00:09:56 ◼   ► really good job with it.

00:09:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:57 ◼   ► So I guess so now, like if you if you you know, if you

00:10:01 ◼   ► have a weekly reminder on Mondays and you do it on Sunday, it will

00:10:05 ◼   ► go to the next Monday or whatever.

00:10:06 ◼   ► Yes.

00:10:07 ◼   ► Right?

00:10:07 ◼   ► Okay.

00:10:08 ◼   ► Bravo.

00:10:10 ◼   ► Very good.

00:10:11 ◼   ► Very good.

00:10:13 ◼   ► Speaking of old things.

00:10:15 ◼   ► Oh, you're not that old.

00:10:17 ◼   ► No, but the company is.

00:10:19 ◼   ► Relay turned 12 this week.

00:10:20 ◼   ► Um Steven and I both wrote about it as we want to do.

00:10:25 ◼   ► Uh, and we wanted to mention that we so every year we do a

00:10:29 ◼   ► a kind of relay QA thing.

00:10:32 ◼   ► We've done it on this show a few times.

00:10:34 ◼   ► It's usually coinciding with Federico being on vacation, but he's already done that.

00:10:39 ◼   ► So we are going to do a relay QA.

00:10:42 ◼   ► Uh, we're gonna do it as part of our backstage show, which is for

00:10:45 ◼   ► relay members, which you get if you uh subscribe to Connected Pro, but we're

00:10:49 ◼   ► going to release it for everybody for free um in our feed called Departures,

00:10:53 ◼   ► which we'll put a link in the show notes.

00:10:54 ◼   ► But we would like questions.

00:10:56 ◼   ► So if you have any questions, uh you can send them in to the

00:10:58 ◼   ► connected feedback page, which is I don't know what the URL is, but it's

00:11:03 ◼   ► in the show notes.

00:11:04 ◼   ► Relay.fm slash connected slash feedback.

00:11:06 ◼   ► Yeah, but I think I have a short URL connected.

00:11:10 ◼   ► Oh, we read it in the outro.

00:11:11 ◼   ► Let me scroll down.

00:11:12 ◼   ► Connectedfeedback.com.

00:11:13 ◼   ► Connected feedback.com.

00:11:15 ◼   ► Yeah, so you can go there as well.

00:11:17 ◼   ► And just you can send us in if you have a question for the

00:11:20 ◼   ► QA.

00:11:20 ◼   ► And if you want to listen to the QA, you can go subscribe to

00:11:23 ◼   ► our departures feed where we put just live events basically in these QA's.

00:11:28 ◼   ► So you can check it out.

00:11:29 ◼   ► So once a year you get a 12 hour MP3 of the podcast.

00:11:33 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:11:33 ◼   ► An MP3 that Steven always wants to make way quicker than he's needed.

00:11:37 ◼   ► And no one should listen to it because I don't really know why you

00:11:40 ◼   ► do it.

00:11:40 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:11:41 ◼   ► I just I I did it one year and it's like you know it's

00:11:44 ◼   ► it's kind of funny, I think.

00:11:46 ◼   ► And it's it's a benchmark of how much faster Macs have gotten because man

00:11:50 ◼   ► the first couple years of doing that it took a while to crush that

00:11:53 ◼   ► MP3.

00:11:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:55 ◼   ► I wanted to talk about the iPad mini for a second.

00:11:58 ◼   ► All right.

00:11:59 ◼   ► There the there've been a lot of rumors about the iPad mini that have

00:12:02 ◼   ► sort of coalesced kind of where the rumors stand.

00:12:07 ◼   ► It would be the next iPad mini would be updated to the A19 Pro

00:12:12 ◼   ► found in the iPhone Air and the 17 Pro.

00:12:15 ◼   ► Up to 8.7 inches.

00:12:17 ◼   ► It's currently 8.3.

00:12:19 ◼   ► That screen is expected to be OLED.

00:12:21 ◼   ► Whether it's 60 or 120 hertz, I'm not sure.

00:12:23 ◼   ► I would think they would just do promotion if they're doing OLED, but I'm

00:12:27 ◼   ► not quite sure about that.

00:12:29 ◼   ► Gurman says it'll it'll have a more water resistant design, closer to an iPhone

00:12:35 ◼   ► than other iPads, which is just a really good idea.

00:12:38 ◼   ► Like it's kind of wild that the iPads basically have no water resistance.

00:12:43 ◼   ► And it could be as soon as this as this fall.

00:12:49 ◼   ► And so I just kind of wanted to see like do a vibe check

00:12:51 ◼   ► on the iPad mini.

00:12:52 ◼   ► We've all had them at various times.

00:12:55 ◼   ► We have all fallen in and out of love with it.

00:12:57 ◼   ► And of course, there's a lot of questions about does it have a future

00:13:00 ◼   ► as iPhones get bigger?

00:13:03 ◼   ► Um well let's start with who has an iPad mini.

00:13:07 ◼   ► Oh, the three of us.

00:13:09 ◼   ► Do either of you have an iPad mini?

00:13:11 ◼   ► No.

00:13:12 ◼   ► There was one in my household that one of my kids uses.

00:13:14 ◼   ► So I have access to one.

00:13:16 ◼   ► My iPad mini uh got turned into the iPad that is in Sophia's room

00:13:21 ◼   ► that like plays white noise and stuff.

00:13:24 ◼   ► And when we went trap when we were like flying, we would put episodes

00:13:28 ◼   ► of Bluey or whatever in that.

00:13:30 ◼   ► Um so it's essentially her iPad now.

00:13:33 ◼   ► Okay.

00:13:37 ◼   ► Was it ever your main iPad?

00:13:38 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:13:39 ◼   ► No, absolutely was.

00:13:40 ◼   ► Remember Pat we called him Padrick because he was purple, like Patrick Star from

00:13:43 ◼   ► the button.

00:13:44 ◼   ► Yeah, Patrick.

00:13:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:13:45 ◼   ► And uh that was my absolute main iPad that I used for a long

00:13:49 ◼   ► time and loved and dealt with the terrible screen scrolling thing that it did.

00:13:53 ◼   ► Oh the jelly scrolling.

00:13:55 ◼   ► Yes, until the M4 iPad Pro, which was I just loved because of how

00:14:01 ◼   ► thin it was and how incredible the Tandem O Lit screen was.

00:14:05 ◼   ► And now I'm still on that iPad Pro as my like that is my

00:14:09 ◼   ► iPad that I use daily for for various tasks.

00:14:14 ◼   ► Um and uh love that thing.

00:14:16 ◼   ► So now the it now the iPad mini has gone into the nursery.

00:14:19 ◼   ► It's on one of those 12 South stands, like the the floor stands.

00:14:23 ◼   ► It's really cool actually.

00:14:24 ◼   ► It's very helpful.

00:14:26 ◼   ► Uh it was really good when she was very young, because if you know

00:14:29 ◼   ► she would sleep on us or whatever and we could just watch YouTube or

00:14:32 ◼   ► whatever on the from the thing.

00:14:33 ◼   ► So it's pretty cool.

00:14:35 ◼   ► There was a time when the iPad Mini was my main iPad.

00:14:38 ◼   ► Oh, like my main computer, like in um twenty twelve probably.

00:14:44 ◼   ► Yeah, it was about the time when I was in the hospital and uh

00:14:47 ◼   ► uh oh tw 2012, 2013, like around that time.

00:14:52 ◼   ► Uh it was just really convenient to use.

00:14:54 ◼   ► And um that was like the iPad Mini 2 probably.

00:14:57 ◼   ► Like I remember that it was a big deal when it got a retina

00:15:00 ◼   ► display.

00:15:00 ◼   ► Yeah, that was the two.

00:15:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:02 ◼   ► Yeah, it was the two.

00:15:03 ◼   ► And uh I loved it and obviously wanted to prove a point that uh

00:15:09 ◼   ► you could in fact get work done on an iPad mini, which I did.

00:15:14 ◼   ► And then I think I moved to an iPad Air uh later, like in

00:15:17 ◼   ► 2014 probably.

00:15:20 ◼   ► Uh now like I t I I reviewed all the recent iPad minis.

00:15:26 ◼   ► Um they're great devices, I think, especially with the new dev with the new

00:15:31 ◼   ► design.

00:15:32 ◼   ► Shame about the display.

00:15:34 ◼   ► I'm mostly concerned about um looking ahead at September, the role of an iPad

00:15:42 ◼   ► mini in a post iPhone Ultra world.

00:15:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:44 ◼   ► And I know that one is a phone, right?

00:15:46 ◼   ► And one is an iPad, and one is gonna be $2,000, and the other

00:15:49 ◼   ► is gonna be probably not two thousand dollars.

00:15:51 ◼   ► Um but still, if you're the kind of person, I guess if you're the

00:15:55 ◼   ► kind of person that's gonna purchase an iPhone Ultra or an iPhone Fold, whatever

00:15:58 ◼   ► it's gonna be called, uh when you open it up, it's literally an iPad

00:16:03 ◼   ► mini.

00:16:03 ◼   ► Right.

00:16:04 ◼   ► So there's gonna be that divide between I think if you're an iPhone Ultra

00:16:08 ◼   ► user, it's gonna be essentially useless to get an iPad mini unless you really

00:16:13 ◼   ► like iPad OS on a small display instead of whatever multitasking system the iPhone

00:16:19 ◼   ► Ultra will have based on iOS.

00:16:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:22 ◼   ► Um so I don't know.

00:16:24 ◼   ► But I think there's definitely a market for it's basically like what if we

00:16:28 ◼   ► what if Apple made a Kindle, but it's actually like a small iPad.

00:16:33 ◼   ► Uh you're not gonna use it to set up a workstation like an iPad

00:16:37 ◼   ► Pro, right?

00:16:37 ◼   ► You're not gonna use it for video editing, you're not gonna use it for

00:16:40 ◼   ► running local AI or whatever.

00:16:42 ◼   ► Um, but it's a great little primarily content consumption machine.

00:16:48 ◼   ► You can use it for other things.

00:16:49 ◼   ► Uh I'm mostly just curious to see what happens after the ultra.

00:16:53 ◼   ► Probably nothing, because there's gonna there's still gonna there's still gonna be people who

00:16:57 ◼   ► don't want a foldable iPhone, but wanna purchase an iPad mini.

00:17:01 ◼   ► And that makes sense.

00:17:02 ◼   ► Yeah, I I think the the foldable definitely puts the hurt on it.

00:17:05 ◼   ► I mean, iPhones getting bigger in general has kind of put the hurt on

00:17:09 ◼   ► it.

00:17:09 ◼   ► If you're using it as like a single tasking kind of device, which I

00:17:13 ◼   ► think a lot of people would.

00:17:16 ◼   ► So that hurts it.

00:17:17 ◼   ► And I think the fact that it's not the cheapest one, like the the

00:17:20 ◼   ► base level iPad is a couple hundred dollars less, several hundred dollars less, depending

00:17:25 ◼   ► on how you configure it with a bigger screen.

00:17:29 ◼   ► And for a lot of people, that's an important factor.

00:17:33 ◼   ► The mini's kind of been a niche product for a long time, and maybe

00:17:37 ◼   ► the bump to 8.7 inches is a way to like give it some breathing

00:17:41 ◼   ► room above the iPhone fold, and you're right.

00:17:44 ◼   ► It will have the multitasking stuff.

00:17:46 ◼   ► I will say in the beta is like the resizable iPhone stuff, a lot

00:17:52 ◼   ► of Apple's apps that are in the like in iOS that resize kind of

00:17:58 ◼   ► look like iPad apps, but we don't know the multitasking model for that yet.

00:18:02 ◼   ► Like, will it be split view?

00:18:04 ◼   ► Is it still just gonna be one app at a time?

00:18:06 ◼   ► Like we just don't know.

00:18:08 ◼   ► And um that is definitely uh I think I think that's actually one of

00:18:11 ◼   ► the most interesting questions about the foldable iPhone is I can't wait to find

00:18:16 ◼   ► the answer to that question.

00:18:17 ◼   ► I know like what does iOS do on a screen of that size and

00:18:22 ◼   ► shape?

00:18:22 ◼   ► Actually, on both screens, right?

00:18:25 ◼   ► Like, what is it like on that out of outer screen that weird shape?

00:18:30 ◼   ► Like it's gonna be really, really interesting to get the answers to those questions.

00:18:34 ◼   ► Yeah, I think so too.

00:18:36 ◼   ► And it it's kind of funny.

00:18:38 ◼   ► Uh, you know, they split iPad OS off.

00:18:41 ◼   ► Was that what was that, 2019 or something?

00:18:46 ◼   ► And and they've become different, right?

00:18:48 ◼   ► More different over time, but now you're gonna have this potentially this foldable phone

00:18:53 ◼   ► that inherits a lot of stuff back from iPad OS.

00:18:57 ◼   ► Like it's the lines are getting blurrier all the time with this stuff.

00:19:02 ◼   ► So I was worried a couple of days ago because they're a new spotlight.

00:19:09 ◼   ► So I keep saying spotlight, stop light controls, the window controls in uh Mac

00:19:14 ◼   ► OS Tahoe, uh Golden Gate.

00:19:17 ◼   ► Golden Gate.

00:19:18 ◼   ► Golden Gate Beta.

00:19:19 ◼   ► Tahoe is next in our document, and it just yeah, absolutely threw me.

00:19:23 ◼   ► So in the Golden Gate Beta, Mac OS 27, they updated the window controls

00:19:28 ◼   ► visually.

00:19:28 ◼   ► I don't think functionally they've changed.

00:19:29 ◼   ► No.

00:19:31 ◼   ► And they have turned them from the flat red, yellow, and green into a

00:19:35 ◼   ► more liquid glass bubble, red, yellow, and green.

00:19:38 ◼   ► Yes.

00:19:38 ◼   ► And Steven was making comments on iMessage, which made me think that here we

00:19:43 ◼   ► go again.

00:19:43 ◼   ► We're gonna have another little finder problem with the color flipping, and he's gonna

00:19:49 ◼   ► have a big problem.

00:19:50 ◼   ► And then uh he he published his article on 512, and I was pleasantly

00:19:55 ◼   ► surprised.

00:19:58 ◼   ► I saved the finder icon, if you really think about it.

00:20:01 ◼   ► So I used all my mojo.

00:20:03 ◼   ► I mean you did do something.

00:20:05 ◼   ► I saved it.

00:20:07 ◼   ► We'd all be using Linux if that hadn't happened.

00:20:11 ◼   ► Sure.

00:20:11 ◼   ► I yeah, so so the the stoplight controls have been this basically the same

00:20:17 ◼   ► since I think Mavericks uh not Mavericks, uh Yosemite is when they went flat.

00:20:23 ◼   ► Basically the same.

00:20:24 ◼   ► And they've tweaked them, but basically the same look, just like flat red, yellow,

00:20:28 ◼   ► green.

00:20:29 ◼   ► And that stayed the same in Tahoe, despite you know, all the liquid glass

00:20:35 ◼   ► and and sort of overall mess that the Tahoe kind of became in places.

00:20:39 ◼   ► Now we're in beta six of Golden Gate, and they've they've changed them.

00:20:44 ◼   ► Um I just find that fascinating that that timeline of events.

00:20:48 ◼   ► I think I think the whimsy is good.

00:20:52 ◼   ► I I do think though it needs some some more work.

00:20:55 ◼   ► I think it's not quite right.

00:20:58 ◼   ► Um I've got two main complaints.

00:21:00 ◼   ► One is the background window, the the controls on the background window are too

00:21:05 ◼   ► prominent.

00:21:06 ◼   ► And so, you know, liquid glass.

00:21:08 ◼   ► They are kind of strange when you look at them, you're right.

00:21:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:11 ◼   ► Do you mean the gray like the grayed outline?

00:21:12 ◼   ► When they're grayed out.

00:21:13 ◼   ► When they are grayed out, they have like a like a darker gray outline

00:21:14 ◼   ► that looks very odd.

00:21:14 ◼   ► They're just they're just very visual, right?

00:21:22 ◼   ► Like it kind of draws your eye a little bit more.

00:21:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:25 ◼   ► But I would I would wonder though, is it just because it's new?

00:21:29 ◼   ► Because like if you look at one to the other, like the old version,

00:21:32 ◼   ► they were just very dark gray.

00:21:34 ◼   ► Like, does that not also draw your attention?

00:21:36 ◼   ► I think because they're flat gray.

00:21:39 ◼   ► And also, like we've been to your point, we've been living with the old

00:21:42 ◼   ► design for like a decade.

00:21:44 ◼   ► So surely there is some recency stuff in here.

00:21:48 ◼   ► But liquid glass, uh at least in Golden Gate and in iOS 27, one

00:21:54 ◼   ► of the things they've changed is the edges of a liquid glass UI element

00:22:00 ◼   ► now have a border.

00:22:01 ◼   ► So it's like it sits, it makes it look like it sits on top

00:22:05 ◼   ► of the layer more than it did in 26.

00:22:08 ◼   ► Which I think is an okay change.

00:22:09 ◼   ► I think they overcooked it in a few places, but it's fine.

00:22:12 ◼   ► The side effect of that is though, in the background, anything in a background

00:22:17 ◼   ► window on the Mac, the controls have this outline around them.

00:22:20 ◼   ► And I think they could drop that outline when something was in the background.

00:22:23 ◼   ► I think it'd be okay.

00:22:25 ◼   ► But the other effect of this moving to liquid glass is everything like a

00:22:30 ◼   ► lot of things in liquid glass have like uh refraction and reflection.

00:22:33 ◼   ► So in 26, um, I know this because I look at widgets on iPhone

00:22:37 ◼   ► home screens all day.

00:22:39 ◼   ► There is a sort of a reflection of light that catches the edge of

00:22:43 ◼   ► the widget.

00:22:44 ◼   ► And depending on how you hold your phone, it moves a little bit.

00:22:47 ◼   ► They've dialed that way back in 27, thankfully.

00:22:51 ◼   ► That is present in these liquid glass controls.

00:22:57 ◼   ► If you look at them up close, like if you can enlarge um that

00:23:01 ◼   ► comparison shot, where they're sort of brighter, like the the color is not consistent

00:23:08 ◼   ► all the way through.

00:23:09 ◼   ► It's like it's catching light.

00:23:11 ◼   ► That has two effects.

00:23:13 ◼   ► One, it kind of makes them look oval, even though they're not.

00:23:16 ◼   ► It's like a trick of the eye that they don't look perfectly circular.

00:23:19 ◼   ► That bugs me a little bit.

00:23:21 ◼   ► But the thing that bugs me about it is nothing else in Mac OS,

00:23:25 ◼   ► like in the window frame, like any of the toolbar buttons, pick up the

00:23:30 ◼   ► same light reflection.

00:23:33 ◼   ► The buttons are effectively like transparent, like they don't have those little highlights.

00:23:42 ◼   ► They're not doing that.

00:23:43 ◼   ► I mean, it's got like the darkness around the edges and the lighter at

00:23:46 ◼   ► the top and bottom.

00:23:47 ◼   ► But I think I mean maybe I think it is there a little bit,

00:23:50 ◼   ► but the color really makes it stand out.

00:23:52 ◼   ► And maybe the color it maybe it is dialed up there.

00:23:55 ◼   ► Well, you see, I I'm currently surfing one of my favorite uh websites, which

00:23:59 ◼   ► is the uh macOS screenshot gallery.

00:24:03 ◼   ► And like, but this is how they this is how they looked on, you

00:24:07 ◼   ► know, in Tiger Lion, they looked like this with like the the light on

00:24:10 ◼   ► the top and bottom and the dark on the on the left on right.

00:24:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:14 ◼   ► Oh, it is a return to form in some ways.

00:24:16 ◼   ► Um I just I there's just I think it needs just a little a

00:24:20 ◼   ► little more tweaking.

00:24:22 ◼   ► Um there was another element of this, a designer at Apple posted uh a

00:24:27 ◼   ► little video on Macedon.

00:24:28 ◼   ► I've got it embedded in the post.

00:24:30 ◼   ► Where if you have if you I didn't think it was in here, but

00:24:35 ◼   ► turns out it is.

00:24:36 ◼   ► If you click if you click and hold on a button and then drag

00:24:39 ◼   ► the cursor off, it the button follows you a little bit, and then like

00:24:44 ◼   ► let's go.

00:24:45 ◼   ► Love it.

00:24:46 ◼   ► Uh it's fun.

00:24:47 ◼   ► That's nowhere else in macOS.

00:24:49 ◼   ► And so it it's like, does that is the right place for that the

00:24:53 ◼   ► most prominent window controls in the system?

00:24:55 ◼   ► No one's gonna do this by accident.

00:24:57 ◼   ► No one's gonna do this by accident.

00:24:58 ◼   ► You know, maybe it's like a little bit of whimsy just for you.

00:25:01 ◼   ► Also, I've been spreading misinformation because I I took from your blog posts as

00:25:06 ◼   ► the usual.

00:25:07 ◼   ► I was wrong.

00:25:08 ◼   ► Someone reached out and corrected me.

00:25:11 ◼   ► Wow.

00:25:11 ◼   ► Um rough.

00:25:12 ◼   ► I don't see I don't see an update to this post.

00:25:15 ◼   ► I silently updated it.

00:25:16 ◼   ► Wow, you hear this, everyone?

00:25:19 ◼   ► It's about ethics and macOS UI journalism.

00:25:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I wished.

00:25:25 ◼   ► So yeah, whimsy's good.

00:25:27 ◼   ► I just think it needs a little a little love.

00:25:30 ◼   ► Honestly, if they dialed back the reflection, I would be perfectly fine.

00:25:34 ◼   ► It's just like a little much, I think.

00:25:36 ◼   ► But it's it's I mean, it's wild that in beta six we're having these

00:25:39 ◼   ► changes.

00:25:39 ◼   ► Like they changed a bunch of icons in beta five, and some of that

00:25:42 ◼   ► came to the Mac in beta six.

00:25:44 ◼   ► Like not normally something we see this late in the cycle, but um, I

00:25:50 ◼   ► think they're they're working on this stuff, and that that's encouraging.

00:25:53 ◼   ► And I think while I have some nitpicks here, overall I'm very happy with

00:25:59 ◼   ► the direction the UI has taken in Golden Gate from Tahoe.

00:26:03 ◼   ► And I think it is much more cohesive and understandable in some ways that

00:26:08 ◼   ► Tahoe was kind of confusing.

00:26:10 ◼   ► And uh I'm happy for that.

00:26:12 ◼   ► I'm thankful for that.

00:26:13 ◼   ► I think no matter where you kind of stand, I guess, in your feelings

00:26:18 ◼   ► uh about Lily Quick Lost Design, I think there is absolutely a positive in

00:26:24 ◼   ► the fact that people are complaining less about macOS.

00:26:28 ◼   ► I think so.

00:26:32 ◼   ► There is definitely a change here.

00:26:34 ◼   ► I'm excited to use Golden Gate.

00:26:29 ◼   ► I I haven't installed it.

00:26:37 ◼   ► I'm not a maniac like you two.

00:26:38 ◼   ► Um it's on a second.

00:26:40 ◼   ► I will wait until for Mac OS, I do like to wait.

00:26:44 ◼   ► Yeah, until it's completely done.

00:26:46 ◼   ► I just get really nervous about that.

00:26:48 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:26:49 ◼   ► You know, like if I open an app on my iPhone and it doesn't

00:26:51 ◼   ► work, it's like I can you can get around it and and you know,

00:26:54 ◼   ► like it's fine.

00:26:55 ◼   ► But a lot of the apps that I need to use on my Mac,

00:26:58 ◼   ► if they stop working, then I I can't do my job anymore.

00:27:01 ◼   ► Which is a real problem.

00:27:03 ◼   ► Uh and so I I do like to wait for that.

00:27:05 ◼   ► Yeah, and Zoe pointed out in Discord, and I saw this online as well.

00:27:09 ◼   ► There remember there's that story a while back from Gurman that the user interface

00:27:15 ◼   ► on future touch max was doing like some some wild stuff, like things would

00:27:19 ◼   ► pop out around your finger and that sort of thing.

00:27:22 ◼   ► Like maybe that little movement animation is a little part of that poking out

00:27:28 ◼   ► a little bit.

00:27:28 ◼   ► Um because it makes sense with the cursor, I guess.

00:27:30 ◼   ► If you're gonna like drag something off, it has some some friction.

00:27:33 ◼   ► Get ready for some bleeping and blue pin in the operating system.

00:27:36 ◼   ► Yeah, but maybe we're going, you know, um gonna have a lot more animation

00:27:40 ◼   ► on Touch Mac for the UI.

00:27:44 ◼   ► Like there is an iOS, right?

00:27:45 ◼   ► Like things on iOS and iPad, and especially maybe especially on the iPad, they're

00:27:50 ◼   ► responding to you more than just like a cursor clicking.

00:27:53 ◼   ► And so maybe this is a touch of that.

00:27:55 ◼   ► Ha!

00:27:56 ◼   ► But um we'll see.

00:27:58 ◼   ► That's my second biggest question for the year.

00:28:00 ◼   ► What does the foldable iPhone multitasking look like?

00:28:03 ◼   ► And then number two is like, what is touch like on macOS?

00:28:07 ◼   ► Well, I was about to ask you, do you think we'll get that this

00:28:10 ◼   ► year?

00:28:11 ◼   ► But maybe we can talk about that in a second.

00:28:15 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by Shipaton, the global hackathon for

00:28:20 ◼   ► builders launching real apps to real stores, competing for big prizes and showing the

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00:29:28 ◼   ► Relay.

00:29:31 ◼   ► Do you want to talk us through how this stuff showed up?

00:29:34 ◼   ► All these leaks?

00:29:35 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:29:36 ◼   ► So Mac OS 26.7, the release candidate went in through the beta channel.

00:29:45 ◼   ► And I'm sure that every time there's any beta update or whatever, any kind

00:29:51 ◼   ► of release candidate, there are people at Mac Romers and 9 to 5 Mac

00:29:56 ◼   ► and elsewhere that do some kind of incantation and start searching through code to

00:30:01 ◼   ► find references to things.

00:30:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:03 ◼   ► And oh boy, did they find references to things over at Mac Rumors.

00:29:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:07 ◼   ► A absolute treasure trove of code names.

00:30:12 ◼   ► And these code names, they are essenti they're very simple.

00:30:15 ◼   ► You know, stuff like J495, J four nine six, da-da-da-da-da.

00:30:18 ◼   ► But if you pay enough attention, you understand this stuff well enough, you know

00:30:22 ◼   ► exactly what product lines they're talking about.

00:30:25 ◼   ► And sometimes there's previous information that suggests exactly what that product's gonna be, even

00:30:31 ◼   ► if it's new.

00:30:32 ◼   ► And also some things have words associated to them, like for example, home accessory

00:30:39 ◼   ► seventeen comma three J five nine five, right?

00:30:42 ◼   ► Like that there is a a a way in which if you pay enough

00:30:46 ◼   ► attention, you can work out what that is.

00:30:48 ◼   ► So we won't give you all the code names, but we'll talk about what

00:30:50 ◼   ► these products are, where they've been kind of discerned.

00:30:54 ◼   ► Um it is odd that this has appeared in Tahoe.

00:30:59 ◼   ► I mean, I guess it it suggests a few things.

00:31:03 ◼   ► Uh so obviously it suggests that this uh release candidate of 26.7 is expected

00:31:09 ◼   ► to debut after some of these products have been announced or kind of like

00:31:12 ◼   ► around that time, because you you do that or maybe just before you do

00:31:17 ◼   ► that.

00:31:17 ◼   ► So if you have a Mac and you need to be aware of these

00:31:21 ◼   ► products for some reason, your plug-in and an iPhone or whatever, the Mac will

00:31:25 ◼   ► understand that it exists, right?

00:31:27 ◼   ► So it can be one of the reasons that it's in there.

00:31:30 ◼   ► Why there's so much and why so much of this information has been l

00:31:35 ◼   ► left available, I would expect is a mistake for some of it.

00:31:39 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:31:39 ◼   ► Um but you know, like the idea.

00:31:43 ◼   ► So if the code names for the iPhones are in here, that is not

00:31:47 ◼   ► a problem, right?

00:31:48 ◼   ► We know that's happening.

00:31:49 ◼   ► We know it's happening in a month.

00:31:51 ◼   ► It's like whatever.

00:31:53 ◼   ► But there's a bunch of stuff in here where it's like, oh, this maybe

00:31:56 ◼   ► shouldn't have been in here.

00:31:57 ◼   ► And there's one very specific thing that we'll get to uh in a little

00:32:00 ◼   ► bit.

00:32:01 ◼   ► Um Steve, do you have I I see you have some notes here that

00:32:04 ◼   ► I'm interested in about why you think this may have been more of a

00:32:08 ◼   ► more of a reason for a problem.

00:32:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I was just thinking it was like why why Tahoe why not Golden

00:32:15 ◼   ► Gate?

00:32:16 ◼   ► And this stuff may be in Golden Gate.

00:32:18 ◼   ► I haven't seen any reporting on that.

00:32:20 ◼   ► But then I had the realization that Tahoe is the last OS to support

00:32:24 ◼   ► Intel Macs.

00:32:26 ◼   ► And if a Mac is needed for these other devices, like particularly the AirPods,

00:32:33 ◼   ► right?

00:32:33 ◼   ► Like Mac OS has to know about new AirPods and what they can do,

00:32:36 ◼   ► and probably this other stuff too.

00:32:38 ◼   ► Then you need it in Tahoe, so you're not cutting off a bunch of

00:32:42 ◼   ► Intel Mac users, there are still plenty out there from your new devices.

00:32:48 ◼   ► Um whether or not that holds any water, I don't know, but it certainly

00:32:53 ◼   ► like sort of raised a flag in my mind of like, right, Tahoe is

00:32:56 ◼   ► it for a bunch of people.

00:32:58 ◼   ► Um so yeah, definitely strange.

00:33:00 ◼   ► Like it's very, I mean, I remember way back in the day, there was

00:33:04 ◼   ► some version of Mac OS that leaked a it was in like the system

00:33:08 ◼   ► preferences bundle, an image of the touch bar, and it was just like on

00:33:12 ◼   ► the disk in the Mac OS update.

00:33:14 ◼   ► You can go find it, right?

00:33:15 ◼   ► These things happen, but things like the the notched iPhones and stuff like that

00:33:21 ◼   ► came out.

00:33:21 ◼   ► Uh yeah, that was that was guessed from uh CDN URL, right?

00:33:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:27 ◼   ► Lots of this stuff comes out, right?

00:33:29 ◼   ► Like these these are things that they exist, they have to exist for some

00:33:29 ◼   ► reason.

00:33:32 ◼   ► And I guess there is an element of being able to hide stuff, um,

00:33:36 ◼   ► but maybe sometimes you just can't.

00:33:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:40 ◼   ► I did I did also have the thought, like I I think it's relatively

00:33:44 ◼   ► clear that Apple is using some agent agentic coding stuff.

00:33:49 ◼   ► I mean how fast they're turning out some of these these bug fixes and

00:33:51 ◼   ► stuff.

00:33:51 ◼   ► And I was like, hmm, hmm.

00:33:54 ◼   ► Was that somebody mess something up?

00:33:56 ◼   ► Um some people had a bad day, I think when this came out for

00:34:01 ◼   ► sure.

00:34:02 ◼   ► I mean, it could be something like that, but also similarly, wouldn't you imagine

00:34:06 ◼   ► they would have something that should check it?

00:34:08 ◼   ► Like it just feels like the fact that this if this kind of thing

00:34:12 ◼   ► had never happened before, fine, but it it happens enough, you know.

00:34:17 ◼   ► Right, so iPhones.

00:34:19 ◼   ► So there's references to obviously the uh 18 Pro and Pro Max, uh a

00:34:25 ◼   ► device that will probably be a foldable, and the iPhone Air 2 sidebar question.

00:34:30 ◼   ► Uh so all of the reports are suggesting that the iPhone Air 2 will

00:34:34 ◼   ► get a second camera and more battery.

00:34:36 ◼   ► Do either of you think that's going to make a difference in the trajectory

00:34:39 ◼   ► of this product's life.

00:34:41 ◼   ► I mean, as an iPhone Air user, I hope so.

00:34:45 ◼   ► Um, but uh I mean, I can tell you from like our app's users'

00:34:51 ◼   ► numbers, like no one's using the iPhone Air.

00:34:54 ◼   ► Um I don't think it's because it only has one camera.

00:34:57 ◼   ► I think I think a lot of people are concerned about the battery life

00:35:00 ◼   ► or weirded out by it.

00:35:01 ◼   ► I mean, some people do as the camera, right?

00:35:03 ◼   ► Like the camera's not not a fantastic camera system.

00:35:06 ◼   ► Um there too will make all that better, but I I just I don't

00:35:11 ◼   ► know.

00:35:11 ◼   ► I think we're gonna have two of these things, and that may be it.

00:35:14 ◼   ► What do you think, Federico?

00:35:14 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:35:20 ◼   ► I really don't know.

00:35:22 ◼   ► I mean, you were someone who kind of moved away from the air to

00:35:27 ◼   ► the pro.

00:35:27 ◼   ► Do you think if it had a second camera and and the battery life

00:35:31 ◼   ► was better, would it have maybe kept you?

00:35:34 ◼   ► The battery wasn't really a concern.

00:35:36 ◼   ► The second camera was, but it probably would have kept me with the telephoto.

00:35:42 ◼   ► That's what I would say.

00:35:44 ◼   ► Not about the battery life that I can live with.

00:35:47 ◼   ► It was the second camera and it was the telephoto.

00:35:49 ◼   ► And it probably won't be a telephoto.

00:35:51 ◼   ► And it's probably see that's that's what I'm thinking about.

00:35:54 ◼   ► It probably won't be a telephoto.

00:35:55 ◼   ► Yeah, but that's also gonna be the situation that we're in with the with

00:35:59 ◼   ► the folding phone.

00:36:00 ◼   ► Right.

00:36:00 ◼   ► It's not gonna have a telephone camera.

00:36:02 ◼   ► But it compensates, but it compensates, well, first of all, there's the effect of

00:36:06 ◼   ► new, right?

00:36:07 ◼   ► Um so yeah.

00:36:08 ◼   ► Uh but it compensates for what it doesn't have by having literally another display

00:36:15 ◼   ► inside.

00:36:16 ◼   ► So like you lose one thing, but you gain another with the iPhone Air,

00:36:21 ◼   ► you lose a bunch of things and you gain the thinner phone.

00:36:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:26 ◼   ► Right?

00:36:27 ◼   ► So I think, and also like the the benefit of the air you get

00:36:31 ◼   ► used to much more over time, where I feel like the benefit of a

00:36:34 ◼   ► foldable phone is going to remain for longer.

00:36:38 ◼   ► You know?

00:36:38 ◼   ► Like it I think the utility rather than the form, I think will will

00:36:44 ◼   ► provide a more lasting affection.

00:36:47 ◼   ► Because the iPhone Air doesn't change how you use your iPhone.

00:36:50 ◼   ► In a sense, it's the novelty of it.

00:36:53 ◼   ► Yes.

00:36:53 ◼   ► And um foldable is different.

00:36:56 ◼   ► Are either of you currently planning or thinking, we'll have this conversation more in

00:36:59 ◼   ► a few weeks, that you will be trying to main the ultra.

00:37:06 ◼   ► I think for a while, I think to understand it and be able to

00:37:09 ◼   ► talk and write about it.

00:37:10 ◼   ► Whether it's long term, uh I don't know.

00:37:14 ◼   ► Federico?

00:37:15 ◼   ► I think so.

00:37:16 ◼   ► Yeah, I think of the three of us, I reckon you're the most likely

00:37:20 ◼   ► to long term.

00:37:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I think I have uh been working um my way toward this space,

00:37:31 ◼   ► like like toward like a more uh hybrid iOS, you know.

00:37:36 ◼   ► Um especially since I get much more of my work done on a MacBook

00:37:42 ◼   ► these days, but I don't want to lose the touch nature of of the

00:37:46 ◼   ► iPad.

00:37:46 ◼   ► I feel like an iPhone Ultra is kind of in theory, right?

00:37:50 ◼   ► In theory can be a little bit of a hybrid uh for for people.

00:37:54 ◼   ► And I think there's other people like me, right?

00:37:55 ◼   ► That maybe over the past couple of years, because of because of the renaissance

00:37:59 ◼   ► of my OS, because of some apps that you cannot find on the iPad

00:38:02 ◼   ► or working more on the Mac, but they do miss that feeling of holding

00:38:06 ◼   ► a little tablet, right?

00:38:08 ◼   ► Um not to mention gaming, right?

00:38:10 ◼   ► There's a whole separate conversation about what's happening in the mobile gaming scene right

00:38:15 ◼   ► now on iOS with all of these new types of games that you can

00:38:18 ◼   ► play with emulators, with fan made um uh decompilation projects, and you know, having

00:38:25 ◼   ► seen what it looks like to play a game on a Z Fold 8,

00:38:28 ◼   ► uh like I cannot wait to do the same on an Ultra.

00:38:32 ◼   ► And by the way, I a couple of weeks ago I was with Sylvia.

00:38:36 ◼   ► We went to a store.

00:38:37 ◼   ► Uh we were at the shopping mall uh where I believe I took you,

00:38:40 ◼   ► Mike, a few years ago when you were here.

00:38:43 ◼   ► Like good, good quick Italian for that.

00:38:44 ◼   ► Yeah, you had the you had the what the pizza, I think?

00:38:47 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:38:48 ◼   ► I don't remember.

00:38:44 ◼   ► I think it was like some kind of like bready roll thing.

00:38:52 ◼   ► Oh, maybe, yes.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Maybe yes.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Anyway, they have this uh electronic department store upstairs, and there was a the

00:38:59 ◼   ► day after they already had the Pixel 11 uh devices on display.

00:39:05 ◼   ► And there was also the Z Fold 8.

00:39:07 ◼   ► So I went and used the Z Fold 8 for a few minutes, and

00:39:10 ◼   ► it was lovely.

00:39:11 ◼   ► I mean, besides the ugly Samsung UI stuff, it was really lovely.

00:39:17 ◼   ► Um so yeah, I think uh I thought hypothetically I was gonna be a

00:39:22 ◼   ► fan of the Forum Factor.

00:39:23 ◼   ► Now I can also say practically speaking, it really feels nice.

00:39:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:29 ◼   ► But I don't know.

00:39:30 ◼   ► I I I think I'm gonna struggle with some of the things that that

00:39:32 ◼   ► phone's not gonna have over the pro, but we'll see.

00:39:36 ◼   ► Uh also in the uh the Tahoe bunch of Mac stuff, so there seems

00:39:42 ◼   ► to be reference to a new entry-level 14-inch MacBook Pro.

00:39:48 ◼   ► If I'm remembering uh the rumor wizard correctly, this would potentially be the a

00:39:57 ◼   ► new design and maybe an M6 chip.

00:40:02 ◼   ► There's also references to higher-end MacBook Pros.

00:40:06 ◼   ► Unclear what these are.

00:40:08 ◼   ► Are these just M6 Pro or Macs?

00:40:12 ◼   ► Is one of them the OLED?

00:40:14 ◼   ► Are they all OLED?

00:40:15 ◼   ► Are they with any of them touchscreen?

00:40:18 ◼   ► It's unclear.

00:40:19 ◼   ► Uh, but they're just higher-end MacBook Pros.

00:40:22 ◼   ► I think is probably a better way to say it.

00:40:24 ◼   ► Uh, we spoke about touchscreen.

00:40:26 ◼   ► Do either of you think that we will see this OLED touchscreen MacBook Pro

00:40:30 ◼   ► this year?

00:40:31 ◼   ► No.

00:40:29 ◼   ► I don't think so.

00:40:34 ◼   ► Do you think early next year or just like TBD?

00:40:39 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe I don't know.

00:40:40 ◼   ► Maybe it sounds like they they may be um gearing up for some kind

00:40:44 ◼   ► of spring event, you know, with the with the iPhones.

00:40:48 ◼   ► Uh I could see this Mac being rolled into that.

00:40:50 ◼   ► I could see the AirPods with the cameras being rolled into that.

00:40:53 ◼   ► Okay.

00:40:54 ◼   ► Um or maybe they're gonna do one of those weeks, right?

00:40:57 ◼   ► With one press release a day.

00:40:59 ◼   ► I think that there's enough stuff here that I I expect the iPhone event

00:41:03 ◼   ► will not be the only thing that we get this year.

00:41:05 ◼   ► Um, like we haven't even took got to half of the stuff that's in

00:41:09 ◼   ► this.

00:41:10 ◼   ► Um, but we'll see.

00:41:12 ◼   ► Uh then also iMac uh two, which is interesting.

00:41:18 ◼   ► Are there two versions of the iMac currently?

00:41:21 ◼   ► There are.

00:41:21 ◼   ► It's like the base one and then one with four ports.

00:41:24 ◼   ► It's not they're both the base chips.

00:41:28 ◼   ► Uh okay, okay.

00:41:29 ◼   ► Well, and then they will have gosh knows what chip is in those M5,

00:41:34 ◼   ► M6, probably hard to tell right now.

00:41:36 ◼   ► I don't know though.

00:41:37 ◼   ► Like it it uh it it seems like the M5, they're just not gonna

00:41:41 ◼   ► bother with it.

00:41:42 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:41:42 ◼   ► It's hard to tell.

00:41:43 ◼   ► It's hard to tell right now.

00:41:45 ◼   ► Um and the iPad mini is reference that we spoke about earlier, and a

00:41:48 ◼   ► new Apple TV remote, which I assume means a new Apple TV, right?

00:41:54 ◼   ► Like I figure that's got to mean that.

00:41:56 ◼   ► You're not just gonna do a new remote, right?

00:41:58 ◼   ► All right, can I tell you can you tell you something?

00:42:00 ◼   ► Yeah, we uh sure.

00:42:02 ◼   ► I would actually love this.

00:42:04 ◼   ► Um my Apple TV in the bedroom as an old remote, and the bat

00:42:12 ◼   ► I I've been getting the low battery warning for like two months.

00:42:15 ◼   ► When you say an old remote, do you mean the like No the Siri

00:42:20 ◼   ► remote with the lightning connector?

00:42:22 ◼   ► But since I've been too lazy to go find a lightning cable.

00:42:26 ◼   ► Um I've had that warning for like two months.

00:42:29 ◼   ► Is it the new one?

00:42:30 ◼   ► It has USB C now, doesn't it?

00:42:32 ◼   ► Well, yes, but that's an old one.

00:42:34 ◼   ► That's an that's an old one.

00:42:37 ◼   ► What looks like a clip wheel?

00:42:39 ◼   ► It's the silver one.

00:42:40 ◼   ► Sorry, I just wanted to check that.

00:42:42 ◼   ► I also have that one with lightning.

00:42:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:45 ◼   ► But I'm too lazy to go find a lightning cable.

00:42:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:47 ◼   ► We have one lightning cable tucked in underneath our kitchen island because also Adina

00:42:52 ◼   ► has old airpods.

00:42:54 ◼   ► So she still needs that if she wants to charge them downstairs.

00:42:57 ◼   ► You can charge them on MagSap upstairs.

00:42:59 ◼   ► So we have that in the kitchen, so we uh that's where I plug

00:43:02 ◼   ► the the serial remote into.

00:43:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:05 ◼   ► Yeah, so anyway, I've been too lazy to go find it uh because we

00:43:08 ◼   ► upgraded all of our devices to USB C over the past few years.

00:43:11 ◼   ► We don't have a lightning cable, I think in here anymore.

00:43:14 ◼   ► And um, so I've actually had the thought of like maybe I should just

00:43:18 ◼   ► go go order a new one instantly.

00:43:21 ◼   ► Which I know is stupid, right?

00:43:22 ◼   ► Yeah, because they've increased the price by like 50%.

00:43:24 ◼   ► Oh, really?

00:43:25 ◼   ► Also, they're not the remote.

00:43:27 ◼   ► The remote is just buy the remote.

00:43:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:30 ◼   ► See, now I can buy the new one instead.

00:43:33 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:43:35 ◼   ► So that's actually great for people like me.

00:43:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:39 ◼   ► You know?

00:43:39 ◼   ► Maybe you know, a conspiracy theory, maybe they show you that battery warning for

00:43:43 ◼   ► months, and the battery is not even that low to begin with.

00:43:46 ◼   ► But they just pressure you buy a new remote.

00:43:47 ◼   ► No, they just want you to charge it.

00:43:47 ◼   ► Hey.

00:43:52 ◼   ► Hey.

00:43:53 ◼   ► Uh-huh.

00:43:55 ◼   ► Can you be sure though?

00:43:57 ◼   ► You know what?

00:43:58 ◼   ► I can't.

00:43:59 ◼   ► Uh, I would like to give some long-term follow-up.

00:44:01 ◼   ► So if you remember when the price increases went up, I bought my mom

00:44:04 ◼   ► an Apple TV.

00:43:59 ◼   ► Yes.

00:44:06 ◼   ► Um, which I have set up for her, and she loves it and like

00:44:09 ◼   ► really and just understands how to use it, which I'm fascinated by the fact

00:44:13 ◼   ► that she's done that.

00:44:14 ◼   ► My mom is like she's she's technical enough, but she kind of if something

00:44:23 ◼   ► is new, she'll be like, I just don't know how to use this.

00:44:25 ◼   ► Like she doesn't want to, she doesn't have the desire to want to learn,

00:44:28 ◼   ► so she'll just be like, I don't know how to do this, and we'll

00:44:30 ◼   ► just not do it.

00:44:31 ◼   ► Um, but she's working it out.

00:44:33 ◼   ► Like I've I put a bunch of apps for the channels that she likes,

00:44:36 ◼   ► and she's just like she's she's watching more things than she did before because

00:44:40 ◼   ► she now isn't just watching what's available to her on TV on the TV,

00:44:43 ◼   ► like she had like a a T a DVR basically.

00:44:46 ◼   ► It was man, DVR technology is so bad.

00:44:49 ◼   ► Like if you like sh she didn't want to have like a cable subscription,

00:44:56 ◼   ► but we have like free over the air TV, and like and there's quite

00:44:59 ◼   ► a lot of it here, like those free over the air TV, and it's

00:45:02 ◼   ► like a kind of light version of cable, and she wanted a DVR, and

00:45:06 ◼   ► I had to find her one, and man, the best DVR is terrible, like

00:45:12 ◼   ► absolutely terrible.

00:45:13 ◼   ► Uh and so now she's on the Apple TV and she's loving it.

00:45:16 ◼   ► So I'm really pleased about that.

00:45:17 ◼   ► Because you never know, right?

00:45:18 ◼   ► You see, I'm I'm upending your television experience, uh, but she seems to to

00:45:23 ◼   ► really dig it, so it's really I'm very happy about that.

00:45:26 ◼   ► Good.

00:45:29 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by Bolt.new.

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00:47:02 ◼   ► One of the things that I'm most excited about is the long-awaited home hub.

00:47:09 ◼   ► So this is the home pod with a screen in it.

00:47:16 ◼   ► So let's talk about this.

00:47:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:18 ◼   ► There are two versions referenced.

00:47:22 ◼   ► The rumors would suggest that this aligns to one version that's on a stand

00:47:29 ◼   ► and one version that can be mounted to the wall.

00:47:35 ◼   ► Right?

00:47:35 ◼   ► You don't like that?

00:47:36 ◼   ► It should be one and you can change them out.

00:47:41 ◼   ► I mean, maybe though, right?

00:47:42 ◼   ► Maybe that is the case, but they sell them separately.

00:47:46 ◼   ► This from the company that lets you buy an external display, and you and

00:47:50 ◼   ► you have to choose whether you want the Visa mount or the stand one.

00:47:53 ◼   ► That's a very good point.

00:47:54 ◼   ► Which is also lame.

00:47:56 ◼   ► Well, yeah, but I mean who knows, right?

00:47:59 ◼   ► But like that, there are two versions.

00:48:01 ◼   ► But uh Steven's looking for like um, he wants it to be like the

00:48:06 ◼   ► Pro display with a stand, right?

00:48:09 ◼   ► Where it's like, here's here's the new thing.

00:48:11 ◼   ► It's $200, and here's the stand for $400.

00:48:14 ◼   ► That's what Steven wants.

00:48:17 ◼   ► So this is you know, I was just thinking about it being long awaited.

00:48:23 ◼   ► I wonder if like the boxes of these products might have like one of

00:48:25 ◼   ► those stickers on, and you peel it off, and it's like got a date

00:48:28 ◼   ► from like long in the past.

00:48:31 ◼   ► Like it hadn't done that stuff before.

00:48:32 ◼   ► It's like, oh man, these just sat in a warehouse for a long time

00:48:35 ◼   ► because they couldn't put them out.

00:48:38 ◼   ► So this product with all of the rumors, and we'll put a link to

00:48:41 ◼   ► an article from Philip Philippe Esposito, who's now in gadget.

00:48:46 ◼   ► There was a um given the accent, I would say it's sposito, but yeah,

00:48:52 ◼   ► we'll go with that.

00:48:53 ◼   ► Yeah, okay.

00:48:53 ◼   ► It could be anything, who knows?

00:48:55 ◼   ► Um where is Felipe at?

00:48:58 ◼   ► Uh 9 to 5 and then Mac World before.

00:49:01 ◼   ► Macworld.

00:49:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:02 ◼   ► That's why I yeah.

00:49:03 ◼   ► So Philippe's moving around, but is good at this stuff, uh, so which is

00:49:08 ◼   ► great.

00:49:08 ◼   ► So I'm I'm pleased.

00:49:10 ◼   ► This device is running some kind of operating system that appears to be kind

00:49:20 ◼   ► of product rumored to be called Home OS.

00:49:24 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:49:25 ◼   ► But is either a variant of TV OS or is just going to be

00:49:31 ◼   ► the OS that powers TV OS and everything else now.

00:49:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:36 ◼   ► Does that make sense?

00:49:36 ◼   ► Like it's kind of unclear what's going to happen here.

00:49:39 ◼   ► Is like, is it a variant of TV OS?

00:49:41 ◼   ► Or is TB OS now going to be essentially Home OS, but Home OS

00:49:46 ◼   ► on the Apple TV looks like this.

00:49:48 ◼   ► Home OS on the uh home pad looks like this or whatever, you know?

00:49:52 ◼   ► Yeah, because didn't they fold in the home pod at some point?

00:49:56 ◼   ► It was like audio S, audio.

00:49:58 ◼   ► Yeah, at some point it's some point it was audio OS.

00:50:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:50:02 ◼   ► Yeah, but then they kind of from a presentation perspective, they now do audio

00:50:06 ◼   ► and home.

00:50:08 ◼   ► But they don't, it's not like the home pod do not run, it's not

00:50:12 ◼   ► like they caught the sale that runs TV OS, but they show those products

00:50:15 ◼   ► off together when it at WWC or whatever.

00:50:18 ◼   ► Like, hey, here's audio and home, and they just show them all.

00:50:20 ◼   ► It will make sense, honestly, to have this all just be one thing, right?

00:50:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:50:24 ◼   ► And it seems like Apple agrees, but whether they will talk about that or

00:50:30 ◼   ► not, who knows, right?

00:50:32 ◼   ► Like wherever it will actually be Home OS.

00:50:35 ◼   ► Would be nice, though, wouldn't it?

00:50:36 ◼   ► Especially if they're going to be making more home products.

00:50:41 ◼   ► With this, there is also like some additional reporting that is outside of the

00:50:46 ◼   ► kind of the code name stuff that Macroom has dug up.

00:50:48 ◼   ► Um about the home hub, homepad thing.

00:50:53 ◼   ► The home screen will be kind of like an Apple Watch.

00:50:57 ◼   ► So and it may also feature something like a faces and face gallery.

00:51:02 ◼   ► So it feels like there's some kind of Apple Watch E influence here of

00:51:08 ◼   ► like how you will set it up, right?

00:51:10 ◼   ► So you maybe you'll set it up this way.

00:51:13 ◼   ► You know, you want to have like your UI looking like this kind of

00:51:17 ◼   ► thing, like complications, I guess, kind of idea.

00:51:21 ◼   ► Um, and this is a quote these faces appear to be customizable with different

00:51:24 ◼   ► widgets and even smart stacks, so you'll see different widgets throughout the day.

00:51:28 ◼   ► And then from Judy Clover at Mac Rumors, based on the code, widgets installed

00:51:33 ◼   ► on a linked iPhone will be suggested on the home hub.

00:51:36 ◼   ► Much how like iPhone widgets are available on a Mac without an app being

00:51:40 ◼   ► installed.

00:51:41 ◼   ► It looks like third-party apps may app widgets may be supported in addition to

00:51:45 ◼   ► Apple's own apps.

00:51:47 ◼   ► iPhone app widgets displayed on the home hub will have information mirrored from the

00:51:50 ◼   ► iPhone.

00:51:51 ◼   ► And it can detect when a user's iPhone is nearby and display personal data

00:51:55 ◼   ► and widgets from the phone, kind of like how the Mac does.

00:51:58 ◼   ► So this is answering the question going back from all the way when this

00:52:03 ◼   ► product was first rumored, of basically Apple were at one point considering if this

00:52:09 ◼   ► would have its own app store, but quite rightly decided that new product focused

00:52:15 ◼   ► app stores is a bad idea for them.

00:52:17 ◼   ► Um, because they have to get developers to want to develop apps for an

00:52:21 ◼   ► upper platform, which I think we have seen now that developers do not want

00:52:25 ◼   ► to do this anymore.

00:52:26 ◼   ► And so it makes the most sense if you can pull information from an

00:52:30 ◼   ► iPhone.

00:52:31 ◼   ► But this product lives in the home with multiple people in that home with

00:52:37 ◼   ► multiple iPhones, multiple sets of information.

00:52:41 ◼   ► Sometimes some people leave the house.

00:52:44 ◼   ► So it's like I d so like if you know, let's imagine it's set

00:52:43 ◼   ► up under under for me.

00:52:50 ◼   ► If I leave, what is shown on the screen?

00:52:52 ◼   ► I this is fascinating.

00:52:54 ◼   ► How this product will actually work in practice for multi-home arrangements is gonna be

00:53:02 ◼   ► an interesting challenge, I think.

00:53:04 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:53:05 ◼   ► And I don't think they nailed it with the home pod, right?

00:53:09 ◼   ► We're like s find your voice and you can do the personal context stuff.

00:53:14 ◼   ► Maybe it's fine if it's alone in your office, but like in a kitchen

00:53:18 ◼   ► where this thing is gonna live, it doesn't make it doesn't make much sense.

00:53:22 ◼   ► Um so I don't know, I don't know what they what they do here.

00:53:25 ◼   ► It feels a little bit like I mean a lot of Apple's products are

00:53:30 ◼   ► designed with for like one person in mind, like the iPad, right?

00:53:33 ◼   ► No multi-user support on the iPad unless you're a school.

00:53:35 ◼   ► Like that's silly.

00:53:36 ◼   ► I mean, yeah.

00:53:38 ◼   ► Uh this feels like it could be really limiting thing.

00:53:41 ◼   ► There's no way this product could have been designed with the idea that it

00:53:45 ◼   ► will be a single person experience.

00:53:47 ◼   ► You surely, right?

00:53:48 ◼   ► That'd be a mistake.

00:53:49 ◼   ► This product can't leave the factory with that being the thought of how that

00:53:55 ◼   ► how it works.

00:53:56 ◼   ► That would be madness.

00:53:59 ◼   ► But I'm really excited for this product because I I want to have a

00:54:04 ◼   ► device that is in the kitchen that I can talk to and will show

00:54:08 ◼   ► photos on it that come from my photos library, right?

00:54:12 ◼   ► Like I'm I I I'm very excited about the possibility of this thing, but

00:54:17 ◼   ► the de the devil is in the details of this one for sure.

00:54:21 ◼   ► I'm excited about this as a way to have some of the functions of

00:54:25 ◼   ► the iPhone in the kitchen without having to put my iPhone in the kitchen,

00:54:30 ◼   ► you know, like timers or music playback or just peeking at notifications.

00:54:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:34 ◼   ► Um the I've been trying to um and it's really hard.

00:54:41 ◼   ► Um to use my phone less when I'm not working, and and I know,

00:54:47 ◼   ► you know, we all have in some form of another uh an addiction to

00:54:51 ◼   ► our phones, right?

00:54:53 ◼   ► Uh mine's pretty bad, I would say.

00:54:55 ◼   ► Um and and so I've been trying ways to sort of work on that.

00:55:02 ◼   ► And you know, just having a thing there where I can use Siri, I

00:55:08 ◼   ► can use timers, I can see some widgets, I can see notifications, I can

00:55:12 ◼   ► play music.

00:55:13 ◼   ► Maybe I can take a look at my home kit cameras, I don't know.

00:55:17 ◼   ► Um, without having to put my phone in there, always within reach.

00:55:22 ◼   ► That's pretty exciting.

00:55:24 ◼   ► Um I am kind of concerned about the family sharing aspect of it all,

00:55:30 ◼   ► in the sense that like with family sharing on the Apple TV, you'll it's

00:55:34 ◼   ► just like on Mac OS.

00:55:36 ◼   ► You literally have an account switcher when you are on the lock screen and

00:55:41 ◼   ► you get to choose which profile you want to load.

00:55:43 ◼   ► Now, I don't expect there to be an account switcher on this thing, like

00:55:47 ◼   ► otherwise, every time you want to use it, you gotta select your person.

00:55:51 ◼   ► Which just it this is an ambient computer as well, right?

00:55:54 ◼   ► Sounds inconvenient.

00:55:55 ◼   ► You can't be like it doesn't make sense that way.

00:55:58 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree.

00:55:59 ◼   ► Right.

00:56:00 ◼   ► Right.

00:56:01 ◼   ► But uh the opposite also sounds kinda I don't know, not dangerous, but also

00:56:06 ◼   ► inconvenient in the sense that how is it gonna work for multiple people?

00:56:10 ◼   ► Is it always gonna be unlocked for multiple people?

00:56:13 ◼   ► What is it?

00:56:13 ◼   ► Whose challenges it's showing?

00:56:14 ◼   ► Whose messages is it?

00:56:16 ◼   ► Whose messages?

00:56:16 ◼   ► So is this Apple trying to say, hey, if you live with somebody else,

00:56:14 ◼   ► you're not supposed to have any secrets?

00:56:22 ◼   ► Well, that only goes so far because like what if you what if you're

00:56:25 ◼   ► not like a couple?

00:56:26 ◼   ► It's like your roommates, right?

00:56:29 ◼   ► And so maybe you just and you want to purchase one of these things,

00:56:32 ◼   ► and you're entitled to having your own messages and your own notifications, and your

00:56:36 ◼   ► roommate is also entitled to having theirs.

00:56:38 ◼   ► So, like, how is it gonna reconcile?

00:56:41 ◼   ► Even in a couple, you are entitled to your own messages.

00:56:44 ◼   ► Also that, but you know, every message I said is a thread.

00:56:48 ◼   ► You are entitled to your privacy.

00:56:50 ◼   ► Well, hey, some couples work in a certain way.

00:56:52 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:56:52 ◼   ► I'm not here to cast any judgment.

00:56:54 ◼   ► But like, hey, look, sometimes you're planning a surprise party about that one.

00:56:58 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:56:59 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:57:00 ◼   ► Um how's it gonna work in practice?

00:57:03 ◼   ► Like, and you can say, well, it's gonna be proximity based.

00:57:06 ◼   ► Okay, well, what if the both of us are cooking something in the kitchen?

00:57:10 ◼   ► Like uh very interesting like software problem.

00:57:15 ◼   ► You just mentioned notifications a second ago, and I recoiled.

00:57:20 ◼   ► I do not want notifications on this.

00:57:23 ◼   ► No.

00:57:23 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, well, I get it.

00:57:25 ◼   ► I want like smart home notifications, like someone's at the door, or yes, a

00:57:30 ◼   ► home pod heard a fire alarm.

00:57:31 ◼   ► Or there's a timer.

00:57:33 ◼   ► But I don't want messages, I don't want Slack.

00:57:38 ◼   ► Like oh god.

00:57:39 ◼   ► Someone might, right?

00:57:40 ◼   ► Like, you know, you I'm not saying it shouldn't exist.

00:57:43 ◼   ► It's just like I wouldn't want that.

00:57:44 ◼   ► No, and I'm sure I could turn it off if they did offer that.

00:57:48 ◼   ► Um I wouldn't mind one of these for the office, too, though.

00:57:51 ◼   ► Yeah, I want one on my desk.

00:57:53 ◼   ► I think it would be it would be it'd be great.

00:57:56 ◼   ► If you think like even just something that's like much more customizable standby, right?

00:58:02 ◼   ► Like even just that, like that would be wonderful.

00:57:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:06 ◼   ► I haven't heard that name in years.

00:58:08 ◼   ► I use it.

00:58:09 ◼   ► I use it.

00:58:11 ◼   ► Oh.

00:58:12 ◼   ► Yes, it's a cool feature.

00:58:13 ◼   ► Um I don't use it so much anymore though, because uh does it still

00:58:17 ◼   ► only work when you put it in landscape?

00:58:19 ◼   ► Yes.

00:58:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:20 ◼   ► Oh, maybe I have a disabled.

00:58:22 ◼   ► So that's why it doesn't come on.

00:58:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:25 ◼   ► I don't I just don't really use it so much anymore because all my

00:58:27 ◼   ► charging stuff changed.

00:58:29 ◼   ► Um and so I don't really put it in into Oh, yeah.

00:58:32 ◼   ► It was disabled on my phone, that's why.

00:58:34 ◼   ► That would do it.

00:58:36 ◼   ► And obviously for you know, obvious uh reasons, very excited about the possibility of

00:58:41 ◼   ► third party widgets just working outside out of the box.

00:58:43 ◼   ► That'd be lovely.

00:58:44 ◼   ► Lovely.

00:58:45 ◼   ► Lovely.

00:58:48 ◼   ► Great, great for the widget business.

00:58:49 ◼   ► Just let's get some widgets going, you know.

00:58:51 ◼   ► It would be expression.

00:58:52 ◼   ► You have a horse in this race?

00:58:54 ◼   ► Is that right?

00:58:55 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:58:56 ◼   ► Oh, it's completely selfish.

00:58:57 ◼   ► Um disclosure, widgets are cool.

00:59:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:03 ◼   ► Yeah, that's my my my disclosure is everyone should have widgets and they should

00:59:07 ◼   ► all be made by widgetsmith.

00:59:09 ◼   ► Uh this this leak also included a bunch of other stuff, maybe other home

00:59:14 ◼   ► products.

00:59:15 ◼   ► Um, like a device with multiple sensors that could detect alarm sounds and capture

00:59:21 ◼   ► images.

00:59:22 ◼   ► Sounds like a home security camera.

00:59:24 ◼   ► Yeah, some of that exists.

00:59:25 ◼   ► Like you can have a home pod listen for a fire alarm, or I

00:59:30 ◼   ► think broken glass.

00:59:32 ◼   ► There's a couple of things.

00:59:33 ◼   ► Yeah, it does that, but not images, though.

00:59:35 ◼   ► Not images.

00:59:36 ◼   ► And if this thing has a camera on it for FaceTime, like maybe this

00:59:41 ◼   ► and the home hub are I don't know.

00:59:43 ◼   ► They seem related.

00:59:44 ◼   ► But you Are you saying these aren't two products?

00:59:47 ◼   ► These aren't two products.

00:59:49 ◼   ► There's these are three.

00:59:50 ◼   ► These are one product.

00:59:52 ◼   ► One product that doesn't understand the difference between you and your spouse.

00:59:55 ◼   ► Getting it?

00:59:56 ◼   ► You skip the most important one.

00:59:58 ◼   ► Mark German's tabletop robot.

01:00:01 ◼   ► J595 hanging out here.

01:00:04 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:00:05 ◼   ► What is I mean?

01:00:06 ◼   ► It's a it's a prank, right?

01:00:09 ◼   ► I don't think it is.

01:00:10 ◼   ► Oh, they had that video.

01:00:11 ◼   ► They had that research video.

01:00:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:13 ◼   ► They've done that.

01:00:14 ◼   ► They've done a lot of the bits that are needed.

01:00:16 ◼   ► And it makes a lot of sense that if you have this thing in

01:00:19 ◼   ► your house and you're talking to it, the screen looking at you rather than

01:00:22 ◼   ► you going to look at the screen makes a lot of sense.

01:00:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:26 ◼   ► I just think we're a long way away from that.

01:00:28 ◼   ► And they have, I forget the name of the framework, but you can have

01:00:32 ◼   ► a motorized iPhone mount.

01:00:34 ◼   ► Dock kit.

01:00:36 ◼   ► Dock kit.

01:00:37 ◼   ► Isn't that bet?

01:00:38 ◼   ► I'm sure Belkin makes one.

01:00:40 ◼   ► Auto tracking stand pro with dot kit for iPhone.

01:00:43 ◼   ► How much is it?

01:00:44 ◼   ► Find a retailer.

01:00:48 ◼   ► I'll get back to you.

01:00:49 ◼   ► 149?

01:00:50 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:00:51 ◼   ► Some reason.

01:00:52 ◼   ► Oh my gosh.

01:00:53 ◼   ► No.

01:00:54 ◼   ► It's 300.

01:00:55 ◼   ► Okay, so I Googled this, right?

01:00:57 ◼   ► So you've got two uh uh product pages, and then the third page, gov.uk

01:01:03 ◼   ► Belkin Auto Tracking Stand Pro with dot kit recall presenting a risk of fire.

01:01:09 ◼   ► Oh this is on the on the British government website.

01:01:13 ◼   ► So there you go.

01:01:14 ◼   ► We've got that going for us.

01:01:16 ◼   ► You don't want your tabletop robot to shoot fire across your lithium.

01:01:20 ◼   ► Hazard.

01:01:20 ◼   ► The product presents a risk of fire as the lithium ion batteries can overheat

01:01:24 ◼   ► while in use.

01:01:26 ◼   ► Damn.

01:01:26 ◼   ► Okay.

01:01:27 ◼   ► So that that's why I can't find this product anymore.

01:01:29 ◼   ► It got recalled.

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01:03:15 ◼   ► And then lastly, the AirPods with camera, so new AirPods Pro or AirPods Ultra,

01:03:23 ◼   ► whatever it's gonna be.

01:03:25 ◼   ► Uh this may be the wildest leak to me because in Tahoe there's a

01:03:30 ◼   ► little video clip of somebody using it, looking at a book, and there's like

01:03:34 ◼   ► a graphic showing that, like, oh, I know what the book is, and it

01:03:37 ◼   ► can save it for later or search it or something.

01:03:40 ◼   ► Um pretty nuts.

01:03:42 ◼   ► Um use cases here.

01:03:45 ◼   ► There's been a lot of conversation, right?

01:03:46 ◼   ► There's it doesn't seem like these are camera cameras, they are cameras for visual

01:03:52 ◼   ► intelligence scanning the world around you, not necessarily recording your child at a birthday

01:03:58 ◼   ► party like the Vision Pro.

01:04:00 ◼   ► Is that something we need?

01:04:03 ◼   ► Hmm.

01:04:04 ◼   ► Here's one thing I'll say on this.

01:04:06 ◼   ► Uh just this this video, right?

01:04:08 ◼   ► It appears to be like a help video or something.

01:04:11 ◼   ► Right.

01:04:12 ◼   ► I'm surprised at how much these airpods look like the current AirPods physically.

01:04:20 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:04:22 ◼   ► Where does the camera go?

01:04:24 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't.

01:04:26 ◼   ► It's it's weird, right?

01:04:28 ◼   ► And so this product it was later confirmed.

01:04:31 ◼   ► Well, sorry, it was later said by Mark Gurman that this product is not

01:04:34 ◼   ► coming this year, it's not coming till 2027.

01:04:37 ◼   ► I just wonder if this is a final video.

01:04:40 ◼   ► It could be, yeah, it could be that those AirPods are, you know, placeholder

01:04:44 ◼   ► and they'll be because the audio of the video doesn't sound right to me

01:04:48 ◼   ► either.

01:04:49 ◼   ► You know, I really preferred when Apple made videos without special effects, where they

01:04:54 ◼   ► were more authentic.

01:04:56 ◼   ► What are you getting at?

01:04:57 ◼   ► Just like film people who are mad at visual effects.

01:05:00 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:05:00 ◼   ► It didn't really land.

01:05:02 ◼   ► Wow.

01:05:02 ◼   ► It's not good.

01:05:03 ◼   ► I'm sorry, Todd.

01:04:59 ◼   ► Sorry, Todd.

01:05:06 ◼   ► Um I I I'm just I'm just this video on my first thought was

01:05:10 ◼   ► it wasn't real, but enough people seem to have you know corroborated that it

01:05:16 ◼   ► exists.

01:05:17 ◼   ► What's strange about this, and probably you guys haven't seen it, but like if

01:05:20 ◼   ► you freeze frame on the iPods, take a screenshot and zoom in.

01:05:25 ◼   ► Um it seems like almost they it seems like they almost have like a

01:05:29 ◼   ► hook part at the bottom.

01:05:33 ◼   ► Hmm.

01:05:33 ◼   ► You're gonna see there's like an extra white component.

01:05:38 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:05:40 ◼   ► Oh yeah, maybe um I don't know if it's an issue of the video

01:05:43 ◼   ► or if it's actually basically yeah, it could be a a shadow, a light

01:05:47 ◼   ► or a video artifact or whatever.

01:05:49 ◼   ► But the But yeah I th I just don't know.

01:05:52 ◼   ► I don't know if this is if this is like this may be a

01:05:56 ◼   ► type of thing they want to exist.

01:05:57 ◼   ► I'm just not sure that this is the video that is the final video

01:06:00 ◼   ► or whatever.

01:06:02 ◼   ► Um But yeah, Mark Gurman is saying not until twenty twenty seven still.

01:06:08 ◼   ► Um this this product is not expected to be this year.

01:06:12 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:06:13 ◼   ► Alright.

01:06:13 ◼   ► So so I think I'm I'm more um uh wanna say excited, but like

01:06:20 ◼   ► uh lukewarm about this than I used to be.

01:06:23 ◼   ► I think there are some interesting use cases for visual intelligence.

01:06:27 ◼   ► If these things are not gonna be proper cameras, right?

01:06:30 ◼   ► They're not gonna take pictures or record videos.

01:06:34 ◼   ► They will so you you as the user will not be able to to

01:06:39 ◼   ► uh say take a picture or record a video with the iPods there's gonna

01:06:43 ◼   ► be sensor there's gonna be there's gonna be a camera right but it'll be

01:06:49 ◼   ► prohibited from saving a static file or a static video but it will be

01:06:55 ◼   ► sending some kind of real-time video stream right to somewhere um and that's gonna

01:07:01 ◼   ► power I assume visual intelligence also the video says visual intelligence now so many

01:07:07 ◼   ► questions right what's the image quality what's the resolution um how long can an

01:07:13 ◼   ► airpod with camera see like can you point at something for 30 seconds can

01:07:19 ◼   ► it only freeze frame and get a static shot can it actually do a

01:07:25 ◼   ► session that lasts for two minutes like for example let's say that I'm that

01:07:30 ◼   ► I'm asking Siri for some kind of guidance on how to assemble some kind

01:07:34 ◼   ► of appliance is gonna be able to follow me in that session for five

01:07:39 ◼   ► minutes with those cameras like I I'm trying to imagine these scenarios where you're

01:07:44 ◼   ► not using your phone for something like Gemini live or ChatGPT video when you

01:07:50 ◼   ► want to do something with real time video and an AI on the side

01:07:54 ◼   ► that's I assume what's gonna be the role for visual intelligence here now some

01:08:01 ◼   ► ideas that I thought about one of the things that annoys me the most

01:08:06 ◼   ► about um the some of the modern uh airpods and Siri features is uh

01:08:13 ◼   ► when it pauses right when when you're speaking, it it the the audio playback

01:08:18 ◼   ► on iOS, uh uh there's a setting to automatically pause or lower the volume

01:08:23 ◼   ► when you're speaking.

01:08:24 ◼   ► The problem as a dog owner, when I'm walking the dogs and I'm listening

01:08:28 ◼   ► to a podcast or listening to some music, uh, I'm talking to my dogs,

01:08:32 ◼   ► right?

01:08:32 ◼   ► I mean, dog owners will know you're you're giving commands and you're saying things.

01:08:37 ◼   ► Um, and now Siri has no idea that I'm talking to a dog, it

01:08:41 ◼   ► just recognizes that I'm speaking.

01:08:42 ◼   ► Uh now with AirPods with the cameras, it would be cool if there were

01:08:46 ◼   ► if there was like a dog detection mode.

01:08:48 ◼   ► Like if it knew that I was walking my dogs on a leash and

01:08:51 ◼   ► that I'm talking to my dogs, um, maybe wouldn't necessarily need to pause the

01:08:55 ◼   ► audio.

01:08:56 ◼   ► Likewise, an AirPod with a camera would probably have a better person detection.

01:09:01 ◼   ► So it will probably do a better job at identifying if somebody's approaching me,

01:09:06 ◼   ► looking at me and maybe speaking to me, right?

01:09:10 ◼   ► So better ambience detection of things happening around you could feed in theory better

01:09:17 ◼   ► context to Siri AI, because now, in addition to hearing things, it can also

01:09:23 ◼   ► see things.

01:09:24 ◼   ► Um, and then of course, there's like the obvious stuff.

01:09:27 ◼   ► Like, I'm not using the phone, I'm just wearing AirPods, but Siri can give

01:09:31 ◼   ► me visual navigation help.

01:09:35 ◼   ► Like, I don't know, translate road signs or um see that if I'm like

01:09:41 ◼   ► in some cities, I believe uh that's uh what is it?

01:09:44 ◼   ► Google Maps has the fancy real-time navigation.

01:09:47 ◼   ► Um maybe you know, with an update to Apple Maps, Siri could tell you

01:09:52 ◼   ► in real time by looking, no, you're walking the wrong way, you were supposed

01:09:56 ◼   ► to go the other direction, or the even more basic things, like you know,

01:10:01 ◼   ► you're at a restaurant, you're just looking at a menu, you're wearing one AirPod,

01:10:06 ◼   ► and Siri will tell you, hey, those uh 20 pounds, that's like 35 euros

01:10:11 ◼   ► for you.

01:10:11 ◼   ► Like that kind of uh ambience level real time uh context based on visuals,

01:10:22 ◼   ► I think it is kind of exciting, but it all depends on the power

01:10:27 ◼   ► and the image quality and how invasive slash pervasive they want this system to

01:10:35 ◼   ► be, I think.

01:10:37 ◼   ► I just think that there's a real problem in trying to sell this product

01:10:40 ◼   ► to people that I don't know how they're gonna get around, and I wouldn't

01:10:44 ◼   ► be surprised if it's a reason that I mean they apparently the rumor is

01:10:48 ◼   ► that this product has been difficult to make, but it would not surprise me

01:10:53 ◼   ► if they want to take some time to see either a how kind of

01:10:58 ◼   ► attitudes net out, and also if they think they can maybe try and market

01:11:02 ◼   ► this product in a specific way and would like more time for it, because

01:11:05 ◼   ► I just I just don't know how you get across to people.

01:11:11 ◼   ► These have cameras in them, but they're not taking pictures and videos.

01:11:16 ◼   ► Yeah, right?

01:11:17 ◼   ► If that's the case, or maybe they are, I don't know, right?

01:11:20 ◼   ► But like I just I don't know, I just don't know how people are

01:11:25 ◼   ► gonna feel about a product like this, and I don't know if they need

01:11:27 ◼   ► to walk into it, right?

01:11:30 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:11:31 ◼   ► Because like the the mode, the tone, sorry, has really shifted on the metaglasses,

01:11:36 ◼   ► right?

01:11:37 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:11:37 ◼   ► And like they're just called pervert glasses now.

01:11:40 ◼   ► And and like I don't know, like do you want the AirPods, a product

01:11:45 ◼   ► so successful, to go the way of that?

01:11:49 ◼   ► Where like everyone, oh, you wearing the airpods with a with the cameras in

01:11:53 ◼   ► them, you know, like do they want that kind of question to be something

01:11:56 ◼   ► people ask?

01:11:57 ◼   ► And so like I just I don't know yeah I I don't know I

01:12:01 ◼   ► just it i i it's gonna be really hard to get that across I

01:12:06 ◼   ► think and and that's gonna be that's gonna be a challenge for uh everybody

01:12:11 ◼   ► I mean and I wonder if the challenge is worth it that's a problem

01:12:16 ◼   ► of for the bigger tech industry as a whole right yeah I mean definitely

01:12:19 ◼   ► was it was I mean you could zoom out and ask the question was

01:12:23 ◼   ► it worth it to invest in AI and and I think the better comp

01:12:27 ◼   ► the companies that will succeed will be the companies that are gonna find a

01:12:30 ◼   ► way to sell AI to people in a non-creepy and useful way right luck

01:12:37 ◼   ► I mean one could make the argument that C AI is one of those

01:12:40 ◼   ► products I think it could be yes it at least it doesn't currently feel

01:12:45 ◼   ► like people are upset about it I mean it's not available yeah but we'll

01:12:51 ◼   ► see yeah we'll see um I I think if there's a company that is

01:12:57 ◼   ► well positioned to say look we're doing AI but in a non-cree way just

01:13:04 ◼   ► to benefit our users and I agree it's like it's a not even a

01:13:09 ◼   ► fine line to walk it's like an almost invisible line to walk and it

01:13:14 ◼   ► requires excellent communication skills and it requires an excellent marketing campaign um not a

01:13:22 ◼   ► surprise that Apple is now pretty active on TikTok and Instagram right if you

01:13:26 ◼   ► think about it um how do you sell a younger audience that's maybe a

01:13:31 ◼   ► little disillusioned with AI right now on the benefits of AI.

01:13:35 ◼   ► Um especially if like airPods are just the beginning, like especially if you're also

01:13:40 ◼   ► planning proper glasses for the next two years.

01:13:44 ◼   ► How do you how do you sell those so that people don't call them

01:13:48 ◼   ► pervert glasses?

01:13:50 ◼   ► I don't know, but also I'm not being paid to run Apple PR.

01:13:54 ◼   ► So I think like I've I think thinking about this.

01:13:58 ◼   ► If this is a product that like really works for visual intelligence and that

01:14:02 ◼   ► becomes something that's like really helpful, right?

01:14:04 ◼   ► Like just imagine a scenario where that is the case.

01:14:08 ◼   ► I think I prefer the camera being in airpods to glasses because I wear

01:14:15 ◼   ► glasses.

01:14:16 ◼   ► Yeah, same.

01:14:17 ◼   ► Like I I like the idea of I can take the camera off.

01:14:23 ◼   ► Because there's like all these stories now, I'm sure it's happening in the US

01:14:27 ◼   ► too, of like official buildings and like government buildings and all this kind of

01:14:31 ◼   ► place in the UK.

01:14:32 ◼   ► They're they're banning the camera glasses.

01:14:34 ◼   ► I've seen some of that.

01:14:35 ◼   ► So like if you're if you wear them to see, you can't if you

01:14:41 ◼   ► need glasses, you can't then rely on the camera glasses to be the old

01:14:47 ◼   ► glasses.

01:14:47 ◼   ► So at least with the AirPods, you could just be like the AirPods go

01:14:50 ◼   ► in the case.

01:14:51 ◼   ► And it's like I can get rid of that if I have to.

01:14:53 ◼   ► And it's like I think I prefer that or um like a like a

01:14:59 ◼   ► pendant or a pin, like that kind of thing over glasses now for for

01:15:04 ◼   ► if I'm gonna have some kind of like Siri AI device or whatever.

01:15:09 ◼   ► I think that that form factor, I think, will be better than the glasses

01:15:14 ◼   ► form factor for like having a camera and having something you can talk to

01:15:18 ◼   ► or whatever.

01:15:18 ◼   ► I think is gonna be better um than glasses with cameras in them.

01:15:24 ◼   ► It's comp complicated.

01:15:26 ◼   ► Yeah, very complicated.

01:15:28 ◼   ► And it's also complicated because this is a this is a thing where I

01:15:33 ◼   ► don't nobody has shown the actual utility for a lot of these these devices,

01:15:40 ◼   ► right?

01:15:41 ◼   ► Like there's the possibility of utility, but I don't think anyone has really like

01:15:46 ◼   ► cracked why I would need an AI device on my person because the products

01:15:53 ◼   ► that have been it doesn't help that the products that have been the biggest

01:15:56 ◼   ► show of this have all failed so far.

01:16:00 ◼   ► Um like you know, like the humane pin, the rabbit pin, of pen whatever

01:16:04 ◼   ► the rabbit was was it wasn't a pin, but they didn't go very well.

01:16:08 ◼   ► So yeah, it'll be interesting to see how Apple spins this if they do.

01:16:13 ◼   ► Yeah, because all the a bunch of those other companies are trying to build

01:16:17 ◼   ► something that you don't reach for your smartphone, you reach for their thing.

01:16:21 ◼   ► Apple doesn't have that challenge, so things like glasses, things like AirPods, they're made

01:16:28 ◼   ► to work in conjunction with your phone, not replace it, and that's such a

01:16:32 ◼   ► different c they come from such a different place than somebody like Meta, where

01:16:36 ◼   ► they have to make something more standalone, right?

01:16:39 ◼   ► It's like it's a different set of challenges.

01:16:42 ◼   ► Or where even if it could connect to your phone, they would love it

01:16:47 ◼   ► to be standalone because they don't have your core device.

01:16:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:16:51 ◼   ► Right.

01:16:51 ◼   ► Where like Apple has got the core device part taken care of, so they

01:16:56 ◼   ► don't care.

01:16:57 ◼   ► But Meta desperately wants to be the core a core device company, but they're

01:17:01 ◼   ► probably never gonna be.

01:17:03 ◼   ► No.

01:17:03 ◼   ► At this point.

01:17:04 ◼   ► No.

01:17:06 ◼   ► I think that about does it.

01:17:07 ◼   ► This closing was also leaked in in macOS Tahoe.

01:17:10 ◼   ► Oh man.

01:17:11 ◼   ► It's a bummer.

01:17:12 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a shame.

01:17:14 ◼   ► It's a shame if you want to find links to stuff we spoke about

01:17:14 ◼   ► they're in your podcast player or on the web at relay.fm slash connected slash

01:17:23 ◼   ► six one seven as Mike mentioned earlier it is relays anniversary week birthday week

01:17:30 ◼   ► we're now 12 years old we're gonna be doing a QA early next week

01:17:34 ◼   ► uh so go to the connected feedback form that link is in the show

01:17:37 ◼   ► notes uh and drop us a question about relay 12 and we're gonna be

01:17:41 ◼   ► answering those and that'll be in the departures feed early next week if you'd

01:17:45 ◼   ► like to find more of us we're around Mike hosts a bunch of other

01:17:48 ◼   ► shows here on relay and you can check his blog out at the enthusiast.net

01:17:54 ◼   ► I answered your question you did keep asking me where's your why aren't you

01:17:59 ◼   ► blogging why aren't you blogging and I blogged it so they did no it

01:18:02 ◼   ► was good it was great you've done two in like a week I published

01:18:05 ◼   ► three things to my blog since we last spoke oh man he's pro blogging

01:18:10 ◼   ► Federico he's coming for us I'm back I should be scared okay I am

01:18:14 ◼   ► scared watch out everyone you can find uh Federico's pro blog power blog at

01:18:19 ◼   ► maxstories.net and you can find mine at 512pixels.net like to thank our sponsors this

01:18:26 ◼   ► week RevenueCat Bolt dot new and squarespace and until next week guys say goodbye.

01:18:33 ◼   ► Are you there to you cheerio bye y'all