Connected

00:00:07 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to episode 624 of Connected.

00:00:11 ◼   ► This show is brought to you by Squarespace.

00:00:13 ◼   ► My name is Mike Hurley and I have the pleasure of in of introducing

00:00:17 ◼   ► yours and my keynote chairman, Federico Vetichi.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Ciao Federico.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Chao Mike, how are you?

00:00:23 ◼   ► I'm good.

00:00:23 ◼   ► I'm good.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Steven's in the mountains today.

00:00:26 ◼   ► I saw the photos.

00:00:27 ◼   ► He's been sending everyone.

00:00:29 ◼   ► Lots of photos for a good reason.

00:00:31 ◼   ► Uh basically Steven looks like he is currently stuck inside of a macOS wallpaper,

00:00:36 ◼   ► is the way I would describe it.

00:00:38 ◼   ► Lots of big mountains and and big rocks and uh vistas and such, not

00:00:43 ◼   ► windows kinds.

00:00:44 ◼   ► Um but yeah, he looks like he's having a real good time over there,

00:00:47 ◼   ► I've gotta say.

00:00:47 ◼   ► And I'm happy for him.

00:00:48 ◼   ► I'm happy for him.

00:00:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:51 ◼   ► Should we do some follow up, Federico?

00:00:53 ◼   ► Let's do it.

00:00:53 ◼   ► All right.

00:00:55 ◼   ► I wanted to know how your Mac Ultra

00:01:00 ◼   ► Studio.

00:01:01 ◼   ► You have a studio Ultra Studio is going.

00:01:04 ◼   ► How's how's life with that computer right now?

00:01:06 ◼   ► Life is great with that computer, but for a different reason.

00:01:09 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:10 ◼   ► Uh at the moment I put my local AI on pause.

00:01:15 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:16 ◼   ► Because that RAM is needed by Xcode simulators.

00:01:22 ◼   ► Because we're building not one, but two apps at MacStories.

00:01:27 ◼   ► One is John's idea, and another is my idea.

00:01:30 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:30 ◼   ► And we're we're working on both of them.

00:01:33 ◼   ► And since I strongly believe in Two things.

00:01:38 ◼   ► One, people can just make apps now.

00:01:40 ◼   ► I mean, just look at Steven.

00:01:42 ◼   ► But two, I strongly believe in going the extra mile

00:01:47 ◼   ► than the vast majority of people I see on social media when it comes

00:01:51 ◼   ► to testing these apps.

00:01:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:54 ◼   ► And really, really testing these apps.

00:01:58 ◼   ► So I have created a setup that involves the M5 Ultra Max Studio, but

00:02:04 ◼   ► it also involves the M3 Ultra and my Mac Mini, where most of the

00:02:11 ◼   ► day there's between 30 to 40 simulators happening

00:02:17 ◼   ► and a fleet of agents testing and testing and testing.

00:02:22 ◼   ► So they're they're like clicking around in the simulators, right?

00:02:25 ◼   ► They actually are, yes.

00:02:26 ◼   ► And I have a whole setup.

00:02:29 ◼   ► Since I'm look my thinking was I'm not a developer, I don't write code,

00:02:34 ◼   ► but I'm technical enough to have opinions about apps.

00:02:41 ◼   ► And um

00:02:43 ◼   ► since I'm not not writing the code and I'm not reading the code, I

00:02:49 ◼   ► want to make sure that I ship something that is still considered high quality.

00:02:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:55 ◼   ► And to do that, you need to have a structure.

00:02:58 ◼   ► And so I I've I've spent a couple of weeks actually just studying things,

00:03:02 ◼   ► studying approach by uh different approaches by software engineers, people that actually do this

00:03:07 ◼   ► for a living, and and copying them.

00:03:10 ◼   ► And and and yes, yes.

00:03:12 ◼   ► Just copying their approach.

00:03:14 ◼   ► Like how do these really intelligent, skilled people set up their AI agents?

00:03:20 ◼   ► Oh, I see what you Right.

00:03:23 ◼   ► You're like I've been looking at people's work and I'm just tracing.

00:03:27 ◼   ► No, no.

00:03:28 ◼   ► I'll be looking at I'd be looking at their process.

00:03:30 ◼   ► People because

00:03:33 ◼   ► the AI tools are just infiltrating development everywhere in every corner, right?

00:03:37 ◼   ► And so people who already knew what they were doing, how are they setting

00:03:41 ◼   ► things up?

00:03:42 ◼   ► Now I understand what you're saying.

00:03:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:44 ◼   ► No, what I mean is that if I wanted, I could release like ten

00:03:48 ◼   ► different utilities on the App Store tomorrow because I actually have them ready to

00:03:51 ◼   ► go.

00:03:52 ◼   ► Yes.

00:03:52 ◼   ► But I but I wouldn't be happy about them.

00:03:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:55 ◼   ► And and I think even if you take away the code, the writing the

00:04:00 ◼   ► code from the equation, from the process of making an app, there's still so

00:04:04 ◼   ► much thought and testing that needs to go into making a quality product.

00:04:09 ◼   ► Yeah, because there's there is a level of like jankiness that you're willing to

00:04:14 ◼   ► accept for things that only you use, right?

00:04:16 ◼   ► Yes.

00:04:17 ◼   ► Because it's like this is just me.

00:04:18 ◼   ► And so like I'll just put up with this.

00:04:20 ◼   ► And look it's things like

00:04:22 ◼   ► is the visual contrast good enough in dark mode?

00:04:26 ◼   ► Is the touch target of this button good enough?

00:04:30 ◼   ► Um, if the app supports multiple themes, do those themes work well in multiple

00:04:36 ◼   ► languages?

00:04:37 ◼   ► Does it work well enough for right to left languages?

00:04:41 ◼   ► Does it work if you flip the orientation?

00:04:44 ◼   ► Does it work on an iPhone SE as well as it does on an

00:04:47 ◼   ► on a 18 Pro Max?

00:04:48 ◼   ► Like stuff like that is the reason why I had to free up memory

00:04:53 ◼   ► on my computers so that I have this constant fleet of agents.

00:04:58 ◼   ► Um core they actually coordinate with each other.

00:05:00 ◼   ► And by fleet of agents I mean like there is one cloud that is

00:05:03 ◼   ► coordinating usually like uh from 10 to 20 sub agents across three different computers

00:05:10 ◼   ► with um twenty to thirty simulators happening at the same time.

00:05:15 ◼   ► Um there's a piece of software called CUA Spaces that makes this happen.

00:05:21 ◼   ► Um, it's an open source project that allows you to quote unquote teleport a

00:05:26 ◼   ► simulator from one computer to another.

00:05:29 ◼   ► Okay.

00:05:29 ◼   ► And so you have this this uh this collection of agents working together.

00:05:35 ◼   ► I have a notion database where uh the agents actually keep track of each

00:05:40 ◼   ► other.

00:05:41 ◼   ► Uh it's a very have you read much about the open AI hugging face

00:05:47 ◼   ► hacking story?

00:05:48 ◼   ► I'm a I am aware of it.

00:05:50 ◼   ► I know what happened, but I wouldn't say I've like like studied it.

00:05:54 ◼   ► Right.

00:05:54 ◼   ► So the agents were coordinating on a message board, right?

00:05:57 ◼   ► Yes.

00:05:58 ◼   ► I set up a a version of that uh in my Notion.

00:06:01 ◼   ► So the agents can actually talk to each other in the Notion database.

00:06:04 ◼   ► Are we gonna get like it'll be like a post on Mac stories next

00:06:07 ◼   ► week?

00:06:08 ◼   ► The agents have infiltrated veteran customers.

00:06:11 ◼   ► The one thing I n I never have given access uh to for these

00:06:16 ◼   ► agencies Mac stories.

00:06:18 ◼   ► Um they actually they uh I'm pretty religious about that.

00:06:23 ◼   ► So it's not gonna happen.

00:06:25 ◼   ► Uh but yeah, the M5 to go back to your question, the M5 Ultra

00:06:30 ◼   ► is going well for a different purpose at the moment, which is software development

00:06:35 ◼   ► and testing.

00:06:36 ◼   ► And I I just I just uh I love that machine.

00:06:40 ◼   ► I mean it's uh I I'm still curious to if possible at some point

00:06:46 ◼   ► to test the five twelve gig version.

00:06:48 ◼   ► I know that Apple has more announcements to come on local AI very soon.

00:06:54 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:06:55 ◼   ► I think I'm having a good time tinkering with these computers is what I'm

00:07:00 ◼   ► gonna say.

00:07:01 ◼   ► Yes.

00:07:02 ◼   ► Yes.

00:07:03 ◼   ► Uh I'm very excited to announce that it's indie games week.

00:07:07 ◼   ► Um so this is great.

00:07:10 ◼   ► Uh Apple has decided that this week is indie games week.

00:07:14 ◼   ► So this is a thing only for Apple.

00:07:16 ◼   ► Yes.

00:07:17 ◼   ► There isn't as far as I'm aware there isn't i if there is an

00:07:21 ◼   ► indie games week, it's not this week.

00:07:23 ◼   ► Right?

00:07:24 ◼   ► It's right in you know, like I'm sure there is an indie games week

00:07:27 ◼   ► for the game industry, but I've I am not aware of there being an

00:07:33 ◼   ► indie game week going on currently.

00:07:36 ◼   ► But Apple has one.

00:07:38 ◼   ► But they have actually, with this, brought out a bunch of really great indie

00:07:43 ◼   ► games.

00:07:44 ◼   ► Are are they all to Apple Arcade?

00:07:46 ◼   ► I guess they are.

00:07:47 ◼   ► Oh no, you can buy them.

00:07:48 ◼   ► So I I don't fully understand

00:07:51 ◼   ► that.

00:07:52 ◼   ► I I only until now realized that these are actually games that you just

00:07:55 ◼   ► go buy.

00:07:58 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:07:59 ◼   ► These games are Sifu, which is excellent.

00:08:03 ◼   ► Have you ever play Sifu?

00:08:04 ◼   ► Uh no, it looks too difficult for me.

00:08:06 ◼   ► It's not as bad as you'd think.

00:08:08 ◼   ► It's it's kind of like a rhythm fighting game, I guess we would call

00:08:11 ◼   ► it.

00:08:11 ◼   ► Um but anyway, you've got Sifu, Vampire.

00:08:14 ◼   ► Crawlers, Little Kitty Big City, Dome Keeper, Yes Your Grace 2, Nine Kings, and

00:08:18 ◼   ► then No Man's Sky is coming to the iPhone and the iPad at the

00:08:22 ◼   ► end of the month.

00:08:23 ◼   ► Uh which is unbelievable to think that it's that game is just an unbelievable

00:08:29 ◼   ► thing anyway, because it's just continuing to do all of the things that it

00:08:34 ◼   ► does, you know?

00:08:35 ◼   ► Like like i it exists for one, and then they have so many new

00:08:40 ◼   ► things that are adding to that game all the time and now here we

00:08:42 ◼   ► are and it's gonna be on the iPhone and the iPad so we can

00:08:45 ◼   ► all look forward to that.

00:08:45 ◼   ► It's wild stuff.

00:08:46 ◼   ► So yes, congratulations on Indie Games Week.

00:08:49 ◼   ► I did just quickly check because it wasn't until this exact moment that I

00:08:52 ◼   ► realized that each one of these games in John's article has a price next

00:08:57 ◼   ► to it.

00:08:58 ◼   ► I had just assumed that they were all gonna be on Apple Arcade.

00:09:01 ◼   ► None of these are on Apple Arcade and this press release does not mention

00:09:03 ◼   ► Apple Arcade once.

00:09:04 ◼   ► And I figure to myself, what happened there?

00:09:07 ◼   ► You know?

00:09:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:09 ◼   ► You would just assume it's this is an Apple Arcade thing but it isn't.

00:09:12 ◼   ► It's like we're super excited.

00:09:13 ◼   ► Here's games you can go buy them.

00:09:16 ◼   ► Huh.

00:09:17 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:09:18 ◼   ► No man's sky was originally announced as a twenty

00:09:23 ◼   ► To release.

00:09:25 ◼   ► So it's coming out four years later.

00:09:28 ◼   ► Was it to the iPhone and iPad?

00:09:30 ◼   ► I thought it was just to the Mac.

00:09:33 ◼   ► For Mac and iPad in 2022.

00:09:35 ◼   ► Right, okay.

00:09:36 ◼   ► And yeah, okay.

00:09:37 ◼   ► Originally announced as a twenty twenty two release for the Mac and I so

00:09:39 ◼   ► now it's coming to the iPhone and iPad.

00:09:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:43 ◼   ► It is not surprising that something went wrong.

00:09:47 ◼   ► It's not a surprise that that happened.

00:09:50 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:09:50 ◼   ► That's like everyone can look out for that.

00:09:52 ◼   ► I don't know how that game would feel to play on an iPhone.

00:09:56 ◼   ► Man, I t I remember we were doing a gaming show together when No

00:10:01 ◼   ► Man's Sky was originally announced.

00:10:04 ◼   ► It was remastered, right?

00:10:06 ◼   ► It was with Shayed.

00:10:08 ◼   ► Right?

00:10:09 ◼   ► Was what it could have been before.

00:10:11 ◼   ► Could have been before.

00:10:12 ◼   ► And then we and then when when it launched and uh it was not

00:10:17 ◼   ► living up to the hype.

00:10:19 ◼   ► But to be fair, over many many years they really turned things around.

00:10:23 ◼   ► They have exceeded the original promise.

00:10:25 ◼   ► Yeah, but it took multiple years to get there.

00:10:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:29 ◼   ► Uh I love that game.

00:10:32 ◼   ► Do you remember a little while ago when uh Pikachu visited Apple Park?

00:10:36 ◼   ► I do.

00:10:37 ◼   ► I do.

00:10:38 ◼   ► Lots of people were assuming that something was gonna come of that, but I

00:10:41 ◼   ► don't think anything was ever gonna come of that specifically.

00:10:44 ◼   ► It was Pokemon Worlds was happening, you know, et etc etc.

00:10:47 ◼   ► However, Beats have collaborated with Pokemon to release a special edition of their Beats

00:10:54 ◼   ► Pill speaker,

00:10:56 ◼   ► which features Pikachu and Mimikyu.

00:10:59 ◼   ► Mimikyu is a hard Pokemon to describe, honestly.

00:11:02 ◼   ► I don't do it.

00:11:03 ◼   ► It's like what if Pikachu but a ghost, but also not really.

00:11:07 ◼   ► Um, I hate Mimikyu.

00:11:09 ◼   ► Not a big fan.

00:11:10 ◼   ► Yeah, not a big fan.

00:11:11 ◼   ► It I find this fascinating.

00:11:13 ◼   ► You know, I I would say, you know, massive Pokemon fan, right?

00:11:16 ◼   ► But I am disconnected from and have been for a long time to like

00:11:20 ◼   ► what the overall fan Pokemon fan base cares about.

00:11:24 ◼   ► Like I was always really surprised when Eevee became a big deal, right?

00:11:27 ◼   ► It's like that Is not what I experienced growing up.

00:11:31 ◼   ► Like Eevee was a cool Pokemon, but like essentially Eevee rises to the the

00:11:36 ◼   ► level of Pikachu.

00:11:37 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:11:37 ◼   ► Maybe people really like Mimikyu.

00:11:39 ◼   ► I don't know, but here we are, Mimiky and Pikachu on a beats pill,

00:11:44 ◼   ► which is a just a great sentence to say that will be, I'm sure,

00:11:48 ◼   ► confusing to a lot of people.

00:11:50 ◼   ► So I don't like Mimikyu.

00:11:53 ◼   ► I really like this speaker.

00:11:56 ◼   ► And the contrast between the colors.

00:11:59 ◼   ► Yeah, it looks good.

00:12:00 ◼   ► I like that it has a little poke ball.

00:12:02 ◼   ► Um I I I would have liked it to just be all Pikachu though,

00:12:06 ◼   ► if I'm being honest.

00:12:06 ◼   ► I would like a yellow one.

00:12:07 ◼   ► Like all yellow.

00:12:08 ◼   ► Yeah, I get it.

00:12:09 ◼   ► I get it.

00:12:10 ◼   ► I have a few I have a few Pikachu products and they always look

00:12:13 ◼   ► good.

00:12:14 ◼   ► So last week we spoke about replacing the cover layer on an iPhone Duo.

00:12:22 ◼   ► Right.

00:12:22 ◼   ► Uh Joe Joe Rossinho, friend of the show over at Mac Rumors, has published

00:12:28 ◼   ► a list of the pricing for iPhone Duo repairs.

00:12:34 ◼   ► Oof.

00:12:34 ◼   ► And I want to go through some of these.

00:12:36 ◼   ► So what we're going to do is I'm not going to talk about all

00:12:38 ◼   ► of them, but I wanna talk about a few of them because I think

00:12:40 ◼   ► some of these are actually quite interesting.

00:12:42 ◼   ► We have the prices with and without Apple Care.

00:12:45 ◼   ► So I'm gonna give the prices with without Apple Care and then the price

00:12:49 ◼   ► with Apple Care.

00:12:49 ◼   ► And we'll start with the cover layer.

00:12:51 ◼   ► So this is the replaceable mat layer that we were talking about that your

00:12:55 ◼   ► friend got embroiled in.

00:12:57 ◼   ► Yes.

00:12:58 ◼   ► The cover layer repair is $49.

00:13:03 ◼   ► Okay.

00:13:03 ◼   ► Okay.

00:13:04 ◼   ► If If you have Apple Care, it's nineteen dollars, which was the amount that

00:13:09 ◼   ► we were talking about last week that the the Apple executives told you.

00:13:12 ◼   ► This is not terrible.

00:13:13 ◼   ► No.

00:13:14 ◼   ► Okay.

00:13:14 ◼   ► Battery service without Apple Care, two hundred and twenty nine dollars.

00:13:20 ◼   ► With Apple Care, zero if it's below eighty percent.

00:13:24 ◼   ► Well, okay.

00:13:25 ◼   ► Outer display, three hundred and seventy-nine dollars.

00:13:28 ◼   ► Oh my god.

00:13:29 ◼   ► Or twenty-nine.

00:13:30 ◼   ► You really want to get Apple Care.

00:13:33 ◼   ► That is the overall takeaway from this.

00:13:35 ◼   ► Uh in a display, nine hundred and ninety-nine dollars.

00:13:39 ◼   ► Oh my god.

00:13:40 ◼   ► Or ninety-nine dollars.

00:13:41 ◼   ► Yeah, they just added a nine to it.

00:13:44 ◼   ► And then just other damage, which I'm sure other damage is like big damage,

00:13:48 ◼   ► right like something bad has happened.

00:13:50 ◼   ► One thousand four hundred and ninety-nine dollars or ninety-nine dollars.

00:13:54 ◼   ► Oh, this is actually how it works.

00:13:55 ◼   ► They just add a nine to the number, and that becomes what you pay

00:13:59 ◼   ► without Apple Care.

00:14:00 ◼   ► Except for other damage, which is 1499 compared to 99.

00:14:06 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess.

00:14:08 ◼   ► But yes.

00:14:10 ◼   ► Basically, if you are going to buy an iPhone Duo, pre-order pre orders are

00:14:13 ◼   ► tomorrow as we're recording.

00:14:15 ◼   ► You really should get Apple Care, I think, for this device.

00:14:18 ◼   ► On that note, Federico, I was looking around at something a couple of days

00:14:22 ◼   ► ago.

00:14:22 ◼   ► And I must have missed this somehow.

00:14:25 ◼   ► But you it seems you can only get Apple Care as a subscription now.

00:14:30 ◼   ► Wait, really?

00:14:31 ◼   ► Yes.

00:14:32 ◼   ► So like I used to get a year of Apple Care, right?

00:14:36 ◼   ► Don't you have the little checkbox and you pay like two hundred Euros?

00:14:39 ◼   ► Yeah, but it's now renewing yearly.

00:14:43 ◼   ► The Apple Care I got for my iPhone 18 Pro is an annual renewing

00:14:47 ◼   ► subscription.

00:14:48 ◼   ► I did not I did not pay enough attention to this because, I mean,

00:14:52 ◼   ► admittedly, I've been doing this uh m o f intermittently over the years.

00:14:58 ◼   ► But yeah, you it appears now you cannot get Apple Care without it being

00:15:03 ◼   ► some form of renewing subscription, whether you get monthly or annual.

00:15:08 ◼   ► Which just seems really annoying to me.

00:15:11 ◼   ► Um and I guess, yeah, is it is particularly annoying for people that that

00:15:15 ◼   ► change their phone every year.

00:15:16 ◼   ► So what I'm going to do now, I'm going to sign up for Apple

00:15:19 ◼   ► Care One, which is their monthly subscription you can cover a bunch of devices.

00:15:25 ◼   ► I think it will actually be cost effective for me to do this at

00:15:28 ◼   ► this point.

00:15:29 ◼   ► Um, but it's annoying.

00:15:30 ◼   ► And like and then I read it's like, oh, if you sign up for

00:15:33 ◼   ► Apple Care One, if you already have Apple Care, you paid for a year,

00:15:36 ◼   ► they'll refund you the difference on an Apple gift card.

00:15:39 ◼   ► It's like, oh come on.

00:15:40 ◼   ► Does it have to be on an Apple gift card?

00:15:42 ◼   ► Can't you just refund it to me?

00:15:45 ◼   ► But yeah.

00:15:45 ◼   ► So I'm gonna I'm gonna end up with Apple Care One.

00:15:49 ◼   ► If anything, just because of the aggravation, I'm sure it will be of like

00:15:53 ◼   ► starting and stopping all these Apple Care subscriptions and trying to remember to do

00:15:57 ◼   ► that all the time.

00:15:58 ◼   ► Um, so yeah, I'll probably do that and I'll put like, I don't know,

00:16:01 ◼   ► my Apple Watch and my iPhone eighteen pro and my iPhone duo I wanna

00:16:05 ◼   ► or whatever.

00:16:05 ◼   ► But yeah, it's something to get you.

00:16:06 ◼   ► You only get it on subscription now.

00:16:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:09 ◼   ► Yeah, it makes sense.

00:16:10 ◼   ► I guess I should also I don't even know if Apple Care One is

00:16:13 ◼   ► available in Italy, to be fair.

00:16:15 ◼   ► It only recently became available in the UK.

00:16:17 ◼   ► So maybe you don't have what maybe like if I wouldn't be surprised if

00:16:22 ◼   ► if they didn't have Apple Care One.

00:16:23 ◼   ► No Italy.

00:16:24 ◼   ► No Italy.

00:16:25 ◼   ► And is Apple Care just regular Apple Care?

00:16:27 ◼   ► Do you know if it's always a subscription?

00:16:31 ◼   ► Like a way to do this, this is how I found out.

00:16:33 ◼   ► If an iPhone, it it says like it I've looked now.

00:16:36 ◼   ► It's like you can get it with this amount a month or this amount

00:16:39 ◼   ► a year.

00:16:39 ◼   ► I still I think in Italy we still have the old one.

00:16:42 ◼   ► You can just get one year.

00:16:43 ◼   ► Oh no no no new plans have a recurring payment.

00:16:46 ◼   ► There you go.

00:16:47 ◼   ► Yep.

00:16:47 ◼   ► And it's this is one of those things where it's like I know as

00:16:51 ◼   ► a consumer I'm supposed to read all of this.

00:16:55 ◼   ► But also buying an iPhone is such a stressful experience.

00:16:59 ◼   ► Nobody's paying attention in the heat of the moment.

00:17:02 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:17:02 ◼   ► And I just I find it really annoying that now I have this this

00:17:06 ◼   ► annual renewal subscription.

00:17:07 ◼   ► It just continues my frustration with Apple.

00:17:10 ◼   ► Care, even though I did get great service with my um my seventeen pro

00:17:14 ◼   ► when I smashed it, so I can't complain too much.

00:17:17 ◼   ► Uh I wanted to mention Federico uh that we have a new series of

00:17:20 ◼   ► design in California that just uh st has started uh this week.

00:17:24 ◼   ► Um did you know, Federico, that it is the twenty fifth anniversary of the

00:17:28 ◼   ► iPod right now?

00:17:30 ◼   ► I I I know now.

00:17:32 ◼   ► Now you know.

00:17:32 ◼   ► So that's happening over this period of time, kind of between October and November

00:17:37 ◼   ► um is kind of 'cause they they obviously announce it and then they release

00:17:41 ◼   ► it.

00:17:42 ◼   ► Uh this is a five part series.

00:17:44 ◼   ► It starts with an episode kind of setting the stage for the MP three

00:17:48 ◼   ► and how we get to the point where an iPod could even be possible.

00:17:52 ◼   ► Uh but it's I actually this this series has been very interesting to do

00:17:58 ◼   ► uh right now for a few reasons.

00:18:00 ◼   ► Like it just ended up being lucky.

00:18:02 ◼   ► We recorded all of this, but you know, Don Tanus is talking a lot

00:18:05 ◼   ► about the personal hub, the intelligent personal hub.

00:18:08 ◼   ► It is clearly reminiscent of the digital hub, which is part of this story.

00:18:13 ◼   ► So next week's episode is about the digital hub strategy.

00:18:16 ◼   ► And then episodes three, four, and five is Apple one three and four specifically.

00:18:22 ◼   ► Apple bringing together the parts and the people needed to build the iPod and

00:18:27 ◼   ► how you they did that in essentially a year from the moment they decided

00:18:31 ◼   ► they were gonna go down this route, which has also been really helpful in

00:18:35 ◼   ► me thinking about kind of like Apple is more of an agile company, which

00:18:38 ◼   ► it seems to be what I want them to do anyway, but what seems

00:18:41 ◼   ► like John Turnus is trying to move them towards.

00:18:43 ◼   ► So it's interesting how already there are echoes in the show.

00:18:48 ◼   ► Um and this one was just pure luck.

00:18:50 ◼   ► We recorded this series ages ago.

00:18:52 ◼   ► Uh and now it's coming out.

00:18:54 ◼   ► So I I'm really happy with this and I hope that people will check

00:18:56 ◼   ► it out.

00:18:57 ◼   ► Um, I'll put a link in the show notes, but you can go to

00:18:58 ◼   ► relay.fm slash designed.

00:19:00 ◼   ► And people who are members who have listened to it all already have been

00:19:03 ◼   ► telling me how much they have enjoyed the whole series.

00:19:05 ◼   ► So uh you know you're gonna have fun.

00:19:09 ◼   ► Uh iOS 27.2 beta four is out.

00:19:14 ◼   ► There are two things that I wanted to talk to you about.

00:19:18 ◼   ► Um one is they have removed the new health app design.

00:19:22 ◼   ► So reading here from Mac rumors after upgrading to the fourth beta, the health

00:19:26 ◼   ► app has a pop up that says the new app features will come in

00:19:29 ◼   ► a future update.

00:19:30 ◼   ► Data collected during the beta remains available in the settings app.

00:19:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:34 ◼   ► Apple did always say it would be late twenty twenty six, right, is when

00:19:37 ◼   ► this would debut.

00:19:39 ◼   ► And it currently seems like twenty seven point two will be shipping this month.

00:19:44 ◼   ► So I assume that is just before they intended to include the health app,

00:19:48 ◼   ► but they wanted to maybe get people testing it and kind of poking around

00:19:53 ◼   ► before it will come in I assume twenty seven three is when the health

00:19:57 ◼   ► app will actually that would be a m that would be a massive but

00:20:00 ◼   ► that's really interesting, right, that they did that.

00:20:02 ◼   ► Like but I I guess They've done things like this before, I guess, right?

00:20:09 ◼   ► Like I can't think of anything to mind, but like it doesn't feel like

00:20:12 ◼   ► a a particularly novel thing.

00:20:14 ◼   ► Um yeah, I like the new health app design.

00:20:17 ◼   ► Um I like the kind of overview that it gives and I like some

00:20:22 ◼   ► of the kind of summaries that it generates.

00:20:24 ◼   ► I think I think they're focusing things in the right places.

00:20:28 ◼   ► I still want them to go further with take a piece of data from

00:20:32 ◼   ► here and a piece of data from there and overlay it with each other

00:20:34 ◼   ► and tell me, you know, but I like the readiness.

00:20:37 ◼   ► I I think they're doing an overall good job.

00:20:39 ◼   ► It's going in the right direction where I feel like the health app had

00:20:42 ◼   ► stalled for years.

00:20:44 ◼   ► So, you know, Thank you, Eddie Q.

00:20:47 ◼   ► Uh pushing it in the right direction.

00:20:49 ◼   ► Like absolutely that is going in the direction now.

00:20:52 ◼   ► Um and so I look forward to it shipping later.

00:20:55 ◼   ► And I I haven't updated debate a four yet just 'cause I I didn't

00:20:58 ◼   ► know.

00:20:59 ◼   ► I didn't know it happened.

00:21:00 ◼   ► Uh until I was looking at the news this morning.

00:21:04 ◼   ► Um and my phone hadn't told me to do it and I will be

00:21:07 ◼   ► sad.

00:21:07 ◼   ► I'm gonna be sad to lose my new health app.

00:21:10 ◼   ► But there we go.

00:21:11 ◼   ► I will be able to turn my region back to the UK again though,

00:21:14 ◼   ► so that'd be nice.

00:21:16 ◼   ► Because things get things get weird.

00:21:18 ◼   ► Dates in the system are just incomprehensible to me sometimes.

00:21:22 ◼   ► Can we talk about something that is terrible?

00:21:25 ◼   ► Oh please.

00:21:26 ◼   ► The new Apple Music icon?

00:21:28 ◼   ► I will say this is very cure I I find this very curious.

00:21:32 ◼   ► So I'm gonna say it's a bug because I refuse to believe it's an

00:21:36 ◼   ► intentional human choice.

00:21:39 ◼   ► I think I'm gonna burst your bowl a little bit on this.

00:21:42 ◼   ► So twenty seven point two introduces a new uh icon for the Apple Music

00:21:48 ◼   ► app, which is a black music note on a white background.

00:21:52 ◼   ► Wow.

00:21:53 ◼   ► I know.

00:21:54 ◼   ► And the It's innovative.

00:21:56 ◼   ► Uh and the the the music note has changed.

00:21:59 ◼   ► I'll put a link in the show notes to a post from Basic Apple

00:22:03 ◼   ► Guy where you can see it's not just like a color change.

00:22:07 ◼   ► The the the kind of the glyph of the music note has changed.

00:22:13 ◼   ► And Ramon is saying uh in Discord and it's a very good point, the

00:22:17 ◼   ► kind of the colouring throughout the app itself has changed too.

00:22:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:21 ◼   ► It is yeah, so they totally got rid of the pink slash coral accents.

00:22:27 ◼   ► And they just now use standard boring blue inside the app.

00:22:33 ◼   ► I think this is intentional because Apple has been having a very weird rollout

00:22:37 ◼   ► of a new Apple Music identity.

00:22:40 ◼   ► So when they announced Apple Music Hall, they started using a new version of

00:22:44 ◼   ► the m the Apple Music logo where the word music was written in a

00:22:49 ◼   ► wider font.

00:22:51 ◼   ► Gen Z lowercase also.

00:22:53 ◼   ► Gen Z lowercase.

00:22:55 ◼   ► I love it.

00:22:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:56 ◼   ► It's like music OS, I guess.

00:22:57 ◼   ► It's a lowercase.

00:22:59 ◼   ► Uh and also the the like Apple Music Hall website is all black and

00:23:05 ◼   ► white.

00:23:06 ◼   ► Like all of it.

00:23:07 ◼   ► And so I think this is the route they're going in.

00:23:10 ◼   ► They're they're pulling the color out of of Apple Music, I guess and they're

00:23:14 ◼   ► going in a new direction.

00:23:15 ◼   ► I think

00:23:17 ◼   ► they could go further with this logo though, if I'm being honest.

00:23:21 ◼   ► I I I think black and white I'm fine with.

00:23:26 ◼   ► I th the music note doesn't i I think they need to do something

00:23:30 ◼   ► else.

00:23:31 ◼   ► I don't know what it is, but I think they need uh I think

00:23:33 ◼   ► it needs a different visual identity because they don't use the music note in

00:23:39 ◼   ► the branding for Apple Music.

00:23:41 ◼   ► So and I know that the music app is not the Apple Music app,

00:23:47 ◼   ► technically, right?

00:23:48 ◼   ► Like you can have non-Apple music music in there.

00:23:51 ◼   ► But I mean But it's not really that is it?

00:23:54 ◼   ► Because like I know that people that do try to do that have a

00:23:58 ◼   ► terrible experience with that because Apple really wants you to use Apple Music.

00:24:02 ◼   ► So I I don't know what it would be, but I feel like if

00:24:04 ◼   ► we're gonna change stuff up here, can we go in a different direction than

00:24:09 ◼   ► the music note?

00:24:11 ◼   ► So I get it that they may be going for a bolder, more minimal

00:24:18 ◼   ► look.

00:24:19 ◼   ► Almost reminiscent of

00:24:22 ◼   ► some some concert posters that are set in minimal bold type and what makes

00:24:30 ◼   ► the poster is actually the artwork uh or the photos of the artists.

00:24:35 ◼   ► Like I get that design direction.

00:24:37 ◼   ► I don't necessarily think it works for an icon on an iPhone's home screen

00:24:43 ◼   ► because it just makes it so boring.

00:24:46 ◼   ► You can do a black and white icon, but give it a fun touch

00:24:50 ◼   ► give it a fun detail.

00:24:52 ◼   ► Good example, in my opinion.

00:24:54 ◼   ► The ReadWice Reader icon.

00:24:58 ◼   ► I believe it was designed by Gavin Nelson, now at OpenAI.

00:25:02 ◼   ► It's a black and white icon but with the corner of the page that

00:25:08 ◼   ► is like lifted off the icon, revealing a blue gradient underneath.

00:25:15 ◼   ► It's a minimal icon, but it's got one fun detail in it.

00:25:19 ◼   ► Um for my money, if you ask me, I'm always gonna be a believer

00:25:24 ◼   ► in the original, well not the original, but the apple music.

00:25:28 ◼   ► Yes, it's the original Apple Music icon from 2015 to 2020, the white icon

00:25:33 ◼   ► with the multicolor music note.

00:25:35 ◼   ► Yeah, that was a good one.

00:25:37 ◼   ► I like that one because it was subdued.

00:25:40 ◼   ► It was simple, but in my at least in my brain, that icon, that

00:25:46 ◼   ► multicolor icon, symbolized the different albums and the different music you can find in

00:25:53 ◼   ► Apple Music.

00:25:53 ◼   ► I agree with that.

00:25:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:55 ◼   ► Um then they pivoted to the simple coral pink whatever one.

00:26:01 ◼   ► And now this this black and white icon.

00:26:05 ◼   ► I don't

00:26:07 ◼   ► it's not gonna be the end of the world, right?

00:26:09 ◼   ► Because I'm I'm gonna open.

00:26:11 ◼   ► Apple music and I'm gonna listen to music and the music experience will be,

00:26:15 ◼   ► you know, whatever album or playlist I'm listening to.

00:26:18 ◼   ► But if we're judging an icon, it's pretty bad icon.

00:26:22 ◼   ► Um po I I will actually say, I will actually say

00:26:26 ◼   ► the McDonald's one they have done for Creator Studio is actually better than this

00:26:32 ◼   ► one.

00:26:33 ◼   ► I really had to try and work that one out.

00:26:36 ◼   ► Yeah, you know what I mean?

00:26:37 ◼   ► I remember.

00:26:38 ◼   ► I remember.

00:26:38 ◼   ► Was it motion?

00:26:39 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:26:40 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:26:40 ◼   ► Because it's been M.

00:26:41 ◼   ► I'm gonna go with that.

00:26:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:43 ◼   ► Uh I don't mind black and white, like but as I said, like I

00:26:47 ◼   ► I think that we could maybe go a little a little yeah harder on

00:26:52 ◼   ► this.

00:26:53 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:26:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:55 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:26:55 ◼   ► Uh I uh good catch, Mike, on the Apple Music Hall website.

00:27:01 ◼   ► I did not see that.

00:27:02 ◼   ► I actually think

00:27:04 ◼   ► I feel like that direction really works on a website.

00:27:08 ◼   ► Because if you go there, you can see like it's very minimal, but bold.

00:27:13 ◼   ► It's bold.

00:27:14 ◼   ► And when you hover over the text, uh, you get the artist's photos in

00:27:20 ◼   ► the background.

00:27:21 ◼   ► And so that that's simple, but it also isn't right.

00:27:25 ◼   ► And and like you look at the header, like it's very simple.

00:27:29 ◼   ► This is like um what's it called?

00:27:31 ◼   ► San Francisco uh S F wide?

00:27:33 ◼   ► Is that what they call it?

00:27:34 ◼   ► Uh this font?

00:27:36 ◼   ► I don't know that's SF wide.

00:27:37 ◼   ► S F wide exists and I like SF wide.

00:27:40 ◼   ► I'm not sure that is SF Wood.

00:27:43 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:27:44 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:27:45 ◼   ► Yeah, but I think it works really well when it's overlaid on top of

00:27:49 ◼   ► photography, right?

00:27:50 ◼   ► It looks like a it's got that magazine look almost.

00:27:53 ◼   ► I don't think it translates well to an iOS icon, is all.

00:27:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:59 ◼   ► Yeah, I i it it may it might be word.

00:28:02 ◼   ► I mean you'd assume it says have something, right?

00:28:05 ◼   ► I mean, yeah.

00:28:07 ◼   ► But yeah.

00:28:07 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:28:08 ◼   ► Hmm.

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00:30:00 ◼   ► So this week, uh Apple had an experience for the Apple home view.

00:30:09 ◼   ► I wanna I wanted to get

00:30:11 ◼   ► to talk about some vibes uh of the Apple Home View.

00:30:14 ◼   ► What do you think about the name?

00:30:16 ◼   ► Okay.

00:30:18 ◼   ► Don't like the name.

00:30:22 ◼   ► Really like the product.

00:30:24 ◼   ► Yep.

00:30:24 ◼   ► Despite its unusually cold welcome on social media, I would say, from what I've

00:30:31 ◼   ► seen so far.

00:30:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I've seen

00:30:35 ◼   ► I've seen some pretty mixed

00:30:38 ◼   ► takes on this in like a way that I

00:30:42 ◼   ► don't understand.

00:30:43 ◼   ► I also was not expecting the mixed takes.

00:30:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:48 ◼   ► I

00:30:51 ◼   ► You know like sometimes I just I feel like people don't get what's happening.

00:30:57 ◼   ► What do you mean?

00:30:58 ◼   ► Right?

00:30:59 ◼   ► Like like you it's like, oh here's my take on this thing and you

00:31:01 ◼   ► know, I don't think anybody wants this or like who's it for?

00:31:05 ◼   ► Like Like Marcus Brownlee made a great video, like it's a it's a great

00:31:08 ◼   ► overview video, but he's like I don't understand who this product's for.

00:31:12 ◼   ► Maybe it's for regular people and I'm like, No, it's for people that live

00:31:16 ◼   ► their life in the Apple ecosystem.

00:31:18 ◼   ► Yes.

00:31:18 ◼   ► 'Cause like he's comparing it to like, you know, oh you can just do

00:31:22 ◼   ► this on Google's thing or you can do this on Amazon's thing.

00:31:25 ◼   ► It's like, Oh, I had an echo show.

00:31:28 ◼   ► Oh, let me tell you.

00:31:29 ◼   ► About

00:31:30 ◼   ► a terrible experience.

00:31:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:32 ◼   ► It was really slow, really ugly, wanted to show me ads all the time.

00:31:36 ◼   ► And to get the one thing I wanted is just the photos, I had

00:31:38 ◼   ► to use Amazon photos and upload a bunch of photos to it.

00:31:41 ◼   ► For me, like I'm super excited about this product because all of the my

00:31:46 ◼   ► like my favorite photos I will be able to put on display in my

00:31:51 ◼   ► home all the time.

00:31:53 ◼   ► Yes.

00:31:53 ◼   ► I will have easy access to timers and all that kind of stuff while

00:31:58 ◼   ► I'm cooking, which is like fine, whatever.

00:32:02 ◼   ► I will be able to just speak aloud and have music play if I

00:32:05 ◼   ► want to.

00:32:05 ◼   ► I'm trigued to see if I can, from an airplay perspective, if I can

00:32:08 ◼   ► try hook it in with my sonosystem, like how that might work or not.

00:32:11 ◼   ► Like I have no idea.

00:32:12 ◼   ► It'd be interesting to see.

00:32:14 ◼   ► And Then I got Siri AI right there.

00:32:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:18 ◼   ► Like to me it's like I don't understand the like, oh, why are they

00:32:22 ◼   ► doing this?

00:32:22 ◼   ► It's like it's obvious what it's doing this.

00:32:24 ◼   ► And like and and who's it for?

00:32:26 ◼   ► For people that use their iPhone.

00:32:28 ◼   ► Like I don't it seems very this feels like a very natural product to

00:32:33 ◼   ► me and and I and I am intrigued.

00:32:35 ◼   ► I'm also like they they made this ad, right?

00:32:38 ◼   ► Like of a family.

00:32:39 ◼   ► Okay, okay.

00:32:40 ◼   ► So I have thoughts about the ad.

00:32:42 ◼   ► Okay.

00:32:42 ◼   ► All right.

00:32:43 ◼   ► I think you think we're pro I I with the way that you have

00:32:45 ◼   ► come in on this, I feel like we're maybe gonna be on opposite sides

00:32:48 ◼   ► here.

00:32:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:49 ◼   ► Yes.

00:32:50 ◼   ► I think that was a perfectly fine ad that gave an like a glimpse

00:32:54 ◼   ► of what you m would be wanting like what your life might be like

00:32:57 ◼   ► where you're using something like this.

00:32:58 ◼   ► And I thought it was fine.

00:32:59 ◼   ► People are like, oh, the ad's a miss.

00:33:01 ◼   ► I'm like, I don't understand how you could feel that way about it.

00:33:04 ◼   ► Okay, let me tell you.

00:33:05 ◼   ► Um the ad felt so

00:33:10 ◼   ► white suburban America from the movies.

00:33:14 ◼   ► Yeah, but I think that's what they're going for.

00:33:16 ◼   ► Yeah, and it's

00:33:18 ◼   ► it feel it's it's not a it's not a technically bad video.

00:33:25 ◼   ► It's obviously really well done.

00:33:27 ◼   ► A little unrealistic if you consider the speed to which Siri responds.

00:33:33 ◼   ► But my issue But that's an ad, right?

00:33:34 ◼   ► Like that's just Yes, yes.

00:33:36 ◼   ► But my problem is that I've seen this scene, this this I've seen this

00:33:42 ◼   ► setup in a million sitcoms, in a million American-made movies.

00:33:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:49 ◼   ► And it's not realistic.

00:33:51 ◼   ► Sure.

00:33:51 ◼   ► It's not it's not at least to my Italian eyes, it's not how it

00:33:57 ◼   ► works.

00:33:58 ◼   ► We don't have this perfect living, this giant living room with this giant kitchen

00:34:03 ◼   ► table, uh aisle in the middle and everybody and the dad is coming down

00:34:09 ◼   ► and the kids are like uh running around joking all running around.

00:34:14 ◼   ► No.

00:34:15 ◼   ► No obviously it's idealized.

00:34:17 ◼   ► Like it's an ad.

00:34:18 ◼   ► But like I I It I don't think it's a m I feel like

00:34:21 ◼   ► I'm seeing a lot of people say, Oh, it's a miss.

00:34:22 ◼   ► It's a miss.

00:34:23 ◼   ► Or it's like, oh it's a disaster, it's like, no, it's just an ad.

00:34:26 ◼   ► Like what a thing.

00:34:28 ◼   ► It's a little unoriginal.

00:34:29 ◼   ► Yes.

00:34:30 ◼   ► It looks very much like all of the ads that Amazon makes.

00:34:33 ◼   ► You've seen it before.

00:34:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:35 ◼   ► You've seen it before.

00:34:37 ◼   ► This product is unoriginal.

00:34:39 ◼   ► You've seen it before right?

00:34:40 ◼   ► They're they're sh they're fitting into the market that already exists, right?

00:34:45 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:34:46 ◼   ► I feel like They do a better job with ads for the Apple Watch,

00:34:51 ◼   ► for example, where they show I think what I was missing from this video,

00:34:56 ◼   ► from this commercial, was the variety of people, of setups, of situations.

00:35:02 ◼   ► That's a good point.

00:35:03 ◼   ► It it was very much like this is the the environment that it is

00:35:07 ◼   ► This is the environment and this is the family this is the same.

00:35:09 ◼   ► It could have jumped around to different types of people which they do a

00:35:11 ◼   ► lot of in their iPhone.

00:35:13 ◼   ► What if I live alone?

00:35:14 ◼   ► What if I don't have kids?

00:35:15 ◼   ► What if we're just two people?

00:35:16 ◼   ► What if we are two elderly people?

00:35:18 ◼   ► Like instead they said no, the uh to the point where you m you

00:35:23 ◼   ► take a look at the video, you think, Oh, I guess if I don't

00:35:25 ◼   ► have family with kids, maybe this product is not for me.

00:35:28 ◼   ► And that's my counterpoint.

00:35:30 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like

00:35:32 ◼   ► there is a world in which you can show this part

00:35:37 ◼   ► alongside other environments, right?

00:35:41 ◼   ► Yes.

00:35:41 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:42 ◼   ► Yes.

00:35:43 ◼   ► But aside from the video, I really like this product.

00:35:48 ◼   ► And I was gonna ask you, Mike, on the show, um if you can

00:35:53 ◼   ► get one for me.

00:35:53 ◼   ► Yeah, we'll talk about this.

00:35:55 ◼   ► Uh because you it's not in the EU.

00:35:57 ◼   ► Nope.

00:35:58 ◼   ► And they just say it's because of Siri AI, which I I it makes

00:36:01 ◼   ► sense, I guess, right?

00:36:03 ◼   ► Like this product it does feel well it feels like they are pitching it

00:36:08 ◼   ► around this.

00:36:09 ◼   ► I am surprised that I don't it doesn't feel as core to the exp

00:36:13 ◼   ► the full experience as I was expecting.

00:36:16 ◼   ► Um but they obviously feel that you you really need to have Siri AI

00:36:20 ◼   ► for this product and yes, so they don't have it in the EU.

00:36:23 ◼   ► So yeah, me and you can talk about this and and and I'll and

00:36:25 ◼   ► I'll help you out.

00:36:26 ◼   ► We'll we'll get we'll get one over to you.

00:36:28 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:36:28 ◼   ► Because I was thinking I was thinking I was actually thinking about this this

00:36:31 ◼   ► morning 'cause I wanted to ask you.

00:36:33 ◼   ► Like this isn't even like a home pod, like you it's just US P

00:36:37 ◼   ► C in the back so you don't even need to worry about a power

00:36:39 ◼   ► like cable thing.

00:36:41 ◼   ► You just pull out the cable and put a new cable in it.

00:36:43 ◼   ► You can you can power this thing.

00:36:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:45 ◼   ► Which I think is great.

00:36:46 ◼   ► I I I just think overall, like I I wanna I wanna park what

00:36:50 ◼   ► I think is S some some some nonsense around thinking.

00:36:54 ◼   ► Um I think this product looks great.

00:36:56 ◼   ► I mean and I have really been wanting something like this for a long

00:36:59 ◼   ► time.

00:36:59 ◼   ► Like it really does very simply to have something a nice product in my

00:37:05 ◼   ► life that does smart home stuff, shows my family photos and has access to

00:37:11 ◼   ► some other things that I might want from my iPhone, right?

00:37:14 ◼   ► And he's a made of crappy plastic.

00:37:16 ◼   ► Yes.

00:37:17 ◼   ► And I is a cute little guy.

00:37:19 ◼   ► Like I was not expecting a cute little guy, but that's what we got,

00:37:23 ◼   ► you know?

00:37:24 ◼   ► And I I love the look of it.

00:37:25 ◼   ► I love how small it is.

00:37:26 ◼   ► Like I just think that that's fun.

00:37:28 ◼   ► It's a little guy, yeah.

00:37:30 ◼   ► I would have liked more color.

00:37:34 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:37:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:36 ◼   ► I think it would have been really nice to have this

00:37:39 ◼   ► In what color?

00:37:40 ◼   ► IMAC.

00:37:41 ◼   ► Yellow?

00:37:42 ◼   ► The IMAC range.

00:37:43 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:37:44 ◼   ► So you can have a silver one, but you can also have a blue

00:37:48 ◼   ► one or a green one or like the home pods, minis.

00:37:51 ◼   ► Like that kind of color.

00:37:53 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:37:54 ◼   ► Maybe they went for the more neutral look of modern kitchens and living rooms,

00:37:59 ◼   ► maybe.

00:38:00 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe.

00:38:00 ◼   ► I bought the pink one.

00:38:02 ◼   ► You got the pink one.

00:38:03 ◼   ► I bought the pink one, yeah.

00:38:04 ◼   ► You've seen my house.

00:38:05 ◼   ► There's a pink in my house.

00:38:07 ◼   ► I just remember lots of sonos in your house.

00:38:09 ◼   ► There's lots of sonas and they're unfortunately all black.

00:38:12 ◼   ► Um.

00:38:13 ◼   ► But yeah, I we're we we got the pink one.

00:38:15 ◼   ► I think it will look good.

00:38:16 ◼   ► It was like why not?

00:38:18 ◼   ► Let's just go for it.

00:38:19 ◼   ► But I'm very excited about this.

00:38:20 ◼   ► It's kind of kinda what I want.

00:38:22 ◼   ► Now uh the operating system.

00:38:25 ◼   ► I don't think they've given it a name.

00:38:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:28 ◼   ► But like it is clearly unique

00:38:32 ◼   ► in so much as it's taking from a bunch of different things, right?

00:38:35 ◼   ► It's like they're taking a bit of this, it's like a bit of standby,

00:38:38 ◼   ► a bit of iOS, a bit of iPad OS, a bit of T V

00:38:41 ◼   ► OS, and a bit of the Apple Watch which is a great method, I

00:38:45 ◼   ► think, for building an operating system.

00:38:47 ◼   ► You're mixing and matching components that you've done elsewhere.

00:38:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:52 ◼   ► But but there's custom stuff too, you can see, right?

00:38:54 ◼   ► Like some of the like smart home views, that there isn't nothing there's they

00:38:58 ◼   ► don't make anything that looks like that, like in their kind of their watch

00:39:01 ◼   ► face kind of stuff that they've got going on.

00:39:03 ◼   ► I I think it's all very interesting.

00:39:05 ◼   ► I think the the third party developer story is a fascinating one.

00:39:12 ◼   ► Um in that there there kind of isn't one really.

00:39:17 ◼   ► Uh so

00:39:18 ◼   ► Apple has a bunch of apps that they have built.

00:39:21 ◼   ► There are a selection of audio and video apps from CarPlay that will show

00:39:28 ◼   ► on home view and third party widgets work on home view like they do

00:39:32 ◼   ► on the Mac, but only the small one.

00:39:35 ◼   ► Yes.

00:39:36 ◼   ► Which is very interesting to me, but I was a l I was at

00:39:40 ◼   ► least at least expecting um the new iPhone XL widget size that they have

00:39:47 ◼   ► done in twenty seven.

00:39:48 ◼   ► I don't know, maybe maybe that'll come in a future update.

00:39:51 ◼   ► I also kinda wonder, but no, it can

00:39:56 ◼   ► it cannot be like a data like bandwidth limitation of like drawing a bigger

00:40:02 ◼   ► widget from an iPhone because you can already do that from a Mac.

00:40:05 ◼   ► The Mac does it no problem.

00:40:06 ◼   ► Yeah the Mac has supported the extra large like the the iPad extra large

00:40:12 ◼   ► for a long time.

00:40:13 ◼   ► Which is interesting because it comes from the iPhone, but it's iPad extra large.

00:40:16 ◼   ► So maybe it's just a matter of time for shipping this with some features

00:40:20 ◼   ► cut from the first version.

00:40:22 ◼   ► But Federico, this product apparently has been ready since twenty twenty four.

00:40:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:26 ◼   ► This I saw uh I think it I I don't know where I saw

00:40:29 ◼   ► this today.

00:40:29 ◼   ► It was either on nine to five or on Mac rumors that somebody found

00:40:33 ◼   ► FTC filings saying that it it it's it's basically been from twenty twenty four.

00:40:38 ◼   ► Yeah, it was on Mac rumors.

00:40:40 ◼   ► Um because again it's like this product has been kind of sitting and waiting

00:40:43 ◼   ► for Siri, right?

00:40:44 ◼   ► That's what I mean obviously they have I would assume over that time have

00:40:47 ◼   ► refined it and refined it and yes, who n who knows.

00:40:49 ◼   ► But yes, it's a shame that it doesn't have the XL iPhone size, uh

00:40:53 ◼   ► extra large iPhone size, 'cause that's a really nice it's a surprisingly nice widget

00:40:58 ◼   ► size for depending on what you use, like for photos and stuff.

00:41:02 ◼   ► I I've really been enjoying it.

00:41:04 ◼   ► But uh I found interesting article from uh from one true John over on

00:41:09 ◼   ► Mac Stories.

00:41:11 ◼   ► Uh I wanna read this.

00:41:12 ◼   ► This is from the human interface guidelines on Apple HomeView.

00:41:16 ◼   ► People can place widgets on the modular face in the home screen.

00:41:19 ◼   ► Widgets on the home view are from the small system family and share the

00:41:23 ◼   ► appearance of iPhone widgets.

00:41:24 ◼   ► A person chooses widgets from among those already installed on HomeView, like whether or

00:41:28 ◼   ► World Clock, or from their individually connected iPad or iPhones.

00:41:31 ◼   ► It's very much like the Mac.

00:41:33 ◼   ► And this is a quote from John.

00:41:34 ◼   ► Siri with apps integrated through App Intense is emerging as a new UI.

00:41:38 ◼   ► Developers who have adopted this technology already give users ways to interact with their

00:41:43 ◼   ► apps beyond the apps themselves.

00:41:44 ◼   ► I expect HomeView will extend that opportunity even further without requiring developers to build

00:41:50 ◼   ► for an entirely new device, which I think is a very good take from

00:41:52 ◼   ► John.

00:41:53 ◼   ► I was surprised in the article that he said he thought there would be

00:41:55 ◼   ► a nature developer story for this device, which I found that interesting 'cause I've

00:42:00 ◼   ► just never expected that that was the case because Apple clearly I think Apple

00:42:04 ◼   ► must be aware that they have to stop doing this 'cause right Like they

00:42:09 ◼   ► ha they must know, like after the Vision Pro, that like you have to

00:42:12 ◼   ► stop doing this.

00:42:13 ◼   ► And I think this is an example of that.

00:42:15 ◼   ► That they're finding other ways to get third parties involved without asking them to

00:42:22 ◼   ► create apps and create an empty app store, like find other w avenues.

00:42:28 ◼   ► Um and I I hadn't considered this take from John.

00:42:31 ◼   ► I think it's a really interesting one that the the if you can extend

00:42:35 ◼   ► the capabilities of Siri AI interfacing into third party applications, you don't necessarily need

00:42:43 ◼   ► dedicated app stores on every platform.

00:42:46 ◼   ► Right, because you could just got Siri in the middle.

00:42:49 ◼   ► Yeah, just doing what you need in the things that you're doing.

00:42:51 ◼   ► And and they need I I can see this now, like, oh, this makes

00:42:56 ◼   ► a lot of sense as we're moving more towards more iPhone connected devices.

00:43:01 ◼   ► To devices potentially, like glasses, airpods, pendants, all this stuff or whatever.

00:43:07 ◼   ► If you just let the iPhone do the processing again, like we did with

00:43:10 ◼   ► the Apple Watch, then just Siri just does it all.

00:43:13 ◼   ► And then you you find ways to convince developers to continue expanding their AI

00:43:18 ◼   ► support because it's now not just on the iPhone, it's on a bunch of

00:43:22 ◼   ► different places.

00:43:23 ◼   ► And that seems like an easier sell than, hey, will you develop an app

00:43:27 ◼   ► for the home view if they asked for that, nobody would do it.

00:43:31 ◼   ► But they're getting what they need.

00:43:33 ◼   ► The reason they're the only reason they're doing CarPlay is so they can get

00:43:37 ◼   ► Spotify on this thing.

00:43:39 ◼   ► Because you can't have a device like this and it without be able to

00:43:42 ◼   ► play music from Spotify.

00:43:43 ◼   ► And they know that.

00:43:44 ◼   ► And I think this is a very pragmatic approach.

00:43:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:48 ◼   ► No, I obviously agree with John.

00:43:50 ◼   ► I think um it's it's um thinking of Siri AI as like the new

00:43:57 ◼   ► sort of glue between experiences without having to ship a new app store every

00:44:03 ◼   ► single time, I think that's the right approach.

00:44:06 ◼   ► I think it's also Apple is i Apple is is is betting heavily on

00:44:12 ◼   ► on App Intense and and sort of as the platform.

00:44:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:17 ◼   ► Right?

00:44:18 ◼   ► It's no longer just a framework.

00:44:19 ◼   ► They're basically predicating their entire Siri experience when it comes to apps on that.

00:44:27 ◼   ► Right?

00:44:28 ◼   ► And so I expect that sort of approach

00:44:32 ◼   ► to be reused and recycled across future devices as much as possible.

00:44:39 ◼   ► With the iPhone at the center, as you said, and maybe an iPad to

00:44:44 ◼   ► an extent, if if you have that.

00:44:46 ◼   ► I think that's very clever how it it can just pull from both.

00:44:49 ◼   ► Yep.

00:44:50 ◼   ► I think the era of new standalone app stores for the time being is

00:44:55 ◼   ► done, right?

00:44:57 ◼   ► Yeah, which I think is for the best.

00:44:59 ◼   ► I agree.

00:45:00 ◼   ► I mean, we got watch, iMessage.

00:45:04 ◼   ► Yep.

00:45:04 ◼   ► Uh vision OS.

00:45:06 ◼   ► T V OS.

00:45:07 ◼   ► Like okay.

00:45:08 ◼   ► Um but yeah.

00:45:11 ◼   ► Um I am very intrigued to see how the home view is gonna work

00:45:15 ◼   ► in practice, like how all this stuff works.

00:45:16 ◼   ► How does the multiple people and people switching work?

00:45:19 ◼   ► What is customization like?

00:45:21 ◼   ► How d exactly what kinds of customization shares between users?

00:45:25 ◼   ► How do you set all of that up?

00:45:26 ◼   ► Like Apple's not had a modern multiple people device, right?

00:45:31 ◼   ► And so like what what are the ways that they think that this stuff

00:45:34 ◼   ► should be done?

00:45:35 ◼   ► How, you know, like is it really just gonna work best if you have

00:45:39 ◼   ► an iCloud family?

00:45:41 ◼   ► And uh 'cause that ties things together.

00:45:43 ◼   ► Like how is all of that um things like the clarity of the UI

00:45:47 ◼   ► and how these experiences are going to come together.

00:45:49 ◼   ► I'm very intrigued by it all basically.

00:45:51 ◼   ► I think it is a fascinating little device.

00:45:54 ◼   ► And I'm happy that they're doing it um because this is what I want

00:45:58 ◼   ► from them.

00:45:58 ◼   ► I want them to be doing new weird little things.

00:46:02 ◼   ► Yes.

00:46:02 ◼   ► Um I wanted to kind of talk about I've been it's yeah, we had

00:46:07 ◼   ► the criticisms of it that I feel like I'd noted earlier, but there's a

00:46:10 ◼   ► couple more that I wanted to touch on 'cause I thought they were interesting.

00:46:12 ◼   ► I do think this is a is a a a good question that I've

00:46:16 ◼   ► seen of like why does it only do car play for a video when

00:46:22 ◼   ► so so like they have the podcasts app as a native app, right?

00:46:28 ◼   ► But the Apple TV app comes from CarPlay, or like from your iPhone, basically,

00:46:34 ◼   ► based on what Apple's saying.

00:46:35 ◼   ► And like the same for others.

00:46:36 ◼   ► It's like Can you watch video podcasts in the podcast app?

00:46:41 ◼   ► Right.

00:46:41 ◼   ► But not Apple TV shows.

00:46:45 ◼   ► It's odd.

00:46:46 ◼   ► Like some of the decisions that they're making are like very peculiar, but like

00:46:50 ◼   ► fine.

00:46:50 ◼   ► I'm intrigued.

00:46:50 ◼   ► Again it's like why have they done this?

00:46:52 ◼   ► I don't know, but we'll find out.

00:46:53 ◼   ► I've hearing people say, like, why not just use your phone?

00:46:55 ◼   ► Why not just use your phone for this stuff?

00:46:57 ◼   ► And it's like I understand that mentality,

00:47:03 ◼   ► but I like that there's like a central device somewhere that I could just

00:47:06 ◼   ► look at and get information from.

00:47:08 ◼   ► It's like, why have a Mac then?

00:47:11 ◼   ► Why have an iPad?

00:47:12 ◼   ► Like it's it's just a such a reductive argument.

00:47:14 ◼   ► Like why do you have an Apple Watch?

00:47:15 ◼   ► Just look at the clock on your phone, like I d I I don't

00:47:19 ◼   ► I just don't really think like why not just why not just use your

00:47:22 ◼   ► phone as like that great of it I think that that argument falls down

00:47:25 ◼   ► very quickly.

00:47:27 ◼   ► Um I've been seeing people complaining about the price of the war-mounted version, so

00:47:32 ◼   ► We've only really been talking about the standalone version, but there's one you can

00:47:35 ◼   ► put on the wall, which I think is an awesome idea and the fact

00:47:39 ◼   ► that it you know, they've really thought it through I think from like how

00:47:41 ◼   ► this will be installed in people's homes that you can do power over Ethernet.

00:47:44 ◼   ► It's like uh that makes a lot of sense for the way that people

00:47:47 ◼   ► might use something like this.

00:47:48 ◼   ► Um but the war-mounted version is still two hundred and ninety-nine dollars and you

00:47:52 ◼   ► have to pay extra for the mount.

00:47:54 ◼   ► And I feel like I've been I understand that people seem like very surprised

00:47:58 ◼   ► about this, that the like the price is the same even though it doesn't

00:48:01 ◼   ► have the base.

00:48:04 ◼   ► But I was just wondering, it's like, is it actually harder to make this

00:48:07 ◼   ► one?

00:48:07 ◼   ► Because you have to get everything into the screen?

00:48:10 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:48:10 ◼   ► That that's also what I was thinking.

00:48:12 ◼   ► Like if you have the base, are there some components in the base that

00:48:16 ◼   ► you don't have to put in the base and therefore it's like and also

00:48:19 ◼   ► is obviously a lower volume product.

00:48:22 ◼   ► Like it is not surprising to me that these two are the same price.

00:48:25 ◼   ► Like I understand why like people like, Oh, there's less here.

00:48:27 ◼   ► Like why does it cost this much?

00:48:29 ◼   ► But I think there are a bunch of economic factors as to why you

00:48:31 ◼   ► would price it the same.

00:48:33 ◼   ► But the wildest price is uh a non-Apple care repair is $279

00:48:40 ◼   ► for anything.

00:48:41 ◼   ► All repairs is two hundred and seventy-nine dollars.

00:48:45 ◼   ► So

00:48:47 ◼   ► also put I guess you also want to get Apple Care on this thing

00:48:49 ◼   ► too?

00:48:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:50 ◼   ► Yep.

00:48:51 ◼   ► Yep.

00:48:52 ◼   ► They really want you to get Apple Care, basically.

00:48:54 ◼   ► Uh is is what we're starting to learn.

00:48:56 ◼   ► But yeah, I'm excited about this.

00:48:58 ◼   ► It's it's Apple's doing some weird stuff right now, right?

00:49:01 ◼   ► Where they keep announcing products and they don't come out for a really long

00:49:04 ◼   ► time.

00:49:04 ◼   ► Um and this is one of them.

00:49:05 ◼   ► Like it comes out in a month from now.

00:49:07 ◼   ► Um and I'm intrigued to test this.

00:49:10 ◼   ► I'm looking forward to it.

00:49:10 ◼   ► This is gonna be a weird product to test, I think.

00:49:14 ◼   ► I was thinking about it today, like what am I gonna do?

00:49:16 ◼   ► Just like keep just like s standing and talking to it at home all

00:49:19 ◼   ► the time?

00:49:19 ◼   ► Like it it doesn't I feel like this is gonna take a while to

00:49:22 ◼   ► test it but I'm looking forward to it.

00:49:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I think I'm gonna put it on my desk.

00:49:27 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:49:28 ◼   ► I'm gonna I'm gonna remove the Sonos move that I have and just put

00:49:34 ◼   ► that next to my display.

00:49:36 ◼   ► Um and I think I'm actually because of that I'm gonna stop uh keeping

00:49:40 ◼   ► my iPhone on a mag safe charger, also on my desk, because I'm just

00:49:44 ◼   ► gonna have a a nicer d uh device for glancing at stuff and controlling

00:49:50 ◼   ► stuff and listening to music.

00:49:52 ◼   ► So on the left side of my display on my desk, I think that's

00:49:56 ◼   ► where I'm gonna put it.

00:49:58 ◼   ► But it will be interesting to see if like the things that you glance

00:50:01 ◼   ► at, will you be able to glance at them on home view?

00:50:04 ◼   ► We just don't know yet, right?

00:50:05 ◼   ► Like we don't know.

00:50:06 ◼   ► What are notifications like?

00:50:08 ◼   ► What kinds of notifications come through?

00:50:10 ◼   ► Do they like it's gonna be intriguing to see how it all kind of

00:50:14 ◼   ► comes together.

00:50:14 ◼   ► Yeah, I I was thinking like maybe I would eventually want one for my

00:50:17 ◼   ► studio, but Um I'm I'm not sure yet.

00:50:20 ◼   ► Like I have a home pod mini here that I use for some stuff,

00:50:23 ◼   ► but I think it would be nice.

00:50:25 ◼   ► So as you know, I spend a lot of time testing and tinkering and

00:50:30 ◼   ► playing around with AI tools and agents and like her or not, I think

00:50:37 ◼   ► there's a there's something to be said about the Muse app by Meta

00:50:43 ◼   ► being the number one or number two apps on the app store.

00:50:47 ◼   ► People want to check it out.

00:50:49 ◼   ► You know what it like people are clearly y checking it out, right?

00:50:52 ◼   ► It's been number one for weeks now.

00:50:54 ◼   ► Otherwise you don't stay there in the in the charts.

00:50:58 ◼   ► Yep.

00:50:58 ◼   ► But even if we set aside like Muse by Meta is just a just

00:51:02 ◼   ► a an example, uh, you know, obviously uh OpenAI, which had GPT, they're doing

00:51:07 ◼   ► dots, right?

00:51:08 ◼   ► Um which is not available for me, but it's available in the US, I

00:51:12 ◼   ► think in the UK as well just it's not in the in the EU.

00:51:16 ◼   ► I've been spending a lot of time testing the tools that I can test.

00:51:21 ◼   ► And so I have this thought of what does it mean for Siri AI?

00:51:27 ◼   ► Um and what does it mean where we have reached the point?

00:51:33 ◼   ► Now

00:51:34 ◼   ► I think we can all argue that Apple, after a two year delay, they

00:51:39 ◼   ► have shipped a pretty decent chatbot experience.

00:51:43 ◼   ► And I would say uh okay general assistant for your phone.

00:51:52 ◼   ► Um Um it's of course US only and uh US, Canada, and UK, I

00:51:57 ◼   ► guess, expanding to more countries, not coming to the EU, but you know, setting

00:52:02 ◼   ► aside the region availability.

00:52:04 ◼   ► Let's talk about the products.

00:52:07 ◼   ► I think it's interesting that just one Apple catches up to what used to

00:52:12 ◼   ► be the state of the art and the expectation from people

00:52:19 ◼   ► last year or two years ago.

00:52:23 ◼   ► The frontier of AI is moving to another thing.

00:52:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:29 ◼   ► I well, I would say I I wouldn't say it's surpr it's not surprising

00:52:34 ◼   ► that that has happened.

00:52:34 ◼   ► Because I mean we were talking about it during the process, right?

00:52:37 ◼   ► That AI was moving forward.

00:52:39 ◼   ► I think I'm s I'm sorry for putting words in here, but the surprising

00:52:42 ◼   ► part is there is a new consumer product.

00:52:45 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:52:46 ◼   ► So that's my thing.

00:52:47 ◼   ► Like it's not surprising that frontier AI companies and nerds like me are always

00:52:55 ◼   ► trying the next thing.

00:52:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:58 ◼   ► I uh that's happening right now.

00:53:00 ◼   ► Like I mentioned before I have a fleet of agents.

00:53:04 ◼   ► Like imagine talking to a regular person about that.

00:53:07 ◼   ► Like that that whole concept.

00:53:08 ◼   ► I mean even me, right?

00:53:09 ◼   ► Like I'm not a regular person, but I Right, but at least you grasp

00:53:13 ◼   ► it.

00:53:13 ◼   ► I grasp it, but I I was like a fleet of age, I'd like

00:53:16 ◼   ► I don't I actually don't know how you would do that.

00:53:18 ◼   ► Like I don't I don't know how that happens.

00:53:21 ◼   ► Right.

00:53:22 ◼   ► And so there's always gonna be that bleeding edge.

00:53:24 ◼   ► Uh th there's a bleeding edge of anything.

00:53:27 ◼   ► In any community, right?

00:53:29 ◼   ► Um, what I think is interesting here is that in the span of nine

00:53:34 ◼   ► months, we have gone from OpenClaw

00:53:38 ◼   ► to Muse, the number one consumer app on the App Store.

00:53:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:42 ◼   ► And so there's clearly something about the idea of a personal agent, and I

00:53:47 ◼   ► use the word agent as a way to differentiate it from assistant.

00:53:52 ◼   ► Um there's something about the idea that meta, I think has found a way

00:53:58 ◼   ► to make it resonate with people.

00:54:00 ◼   ► Can I just take a quick pause here?

00:54:01 ◼   ► I'm sorry to interrupt you, but like you just said something with fires or

00:54:05 ◼   ► something in my brain, which is just like I feel like

00:54:08 ◼   ► I just I stru I'm struggling like struggling so much to like like reconcile

00:54:14 ◼   ► that in my head.

00:54:16 ◼   ► What?

00:54:16 ◼   ► The difference between assistant and agent?

00:54:18 ◼   ► No, no, that it's meta that's done it.

00:54:20 ◼   ► That it oh oh I mean th that there's a whole backstory here.

00:54:24 ◼   ► Not technically, but like

00:54:28 ◼   ► of all the companies, you know all the look.

00:54:32 ◼   ► It should have been open AI, right?

00:54:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:35 ◼   ► Um

00:54:36 ◼   ► OpenAI has a bunch of problems right now.

00:54:39 ◼   ► First of all, that they don't have the best models anymore.

00:54:43 ◼   ► Um Mana doesn't have the best models either.

00:54:47 ◼   ► And neither does uh SpaceX, SI, whatever stupid name they're using.

00:54:53 ◼   ► Anthropic does.

00:54:55 ◼   ► And Anthropic couldn't be less interested in making a cute, simple consumer claude.

00:55:01 ◼   ► Because they're doing fine, right?

00:55:02 ◼   ► Like it seems like they're doing fine.

00:55:03 ◼   ► Like they don't need to be chasing trends.

00:55:05 ◼   ► They have a business.

00:55:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:07 ◼   ► They're gonna IPO, they don't care.

00:55:08 ◼   ► And they're just gonna they're just they have a massive, massive model coming with

00:55:14 ◼   ► Fable Five Five.

00:55:16 ◼   ► They're just gonna barrel through the rest of the AI industry for the next

00:55:20 ◼   ► couple of months.

00:55:21 ◼   ► And they don't care.

00:55:22 ◼   ► It should have been open AI, right?

00:55:24 ◼   ► And it's not.

00:55:26 ◼   ► And I think it's quite surprising, if you ask me, even six months ago,

00:55:31 ◼   ► I would it's I mean and I'm sure I I said it maybe in

00:55:34 ◼   ► some episodes, that meta is out of the race of Frontier AI.

00:55:39 ◼   ► They're done for.

00:55:41 ◼   ► Turns out that, you know, you assemble the Avengers of AI, you give 'em

00:55:46 ◼   ► a sweet hundred billion dollars,

00:55:49 ◼   ► the plan actually works.

00:55:51 ◼   ► Well, and also I I think I think the thing the actual thing that

00:55:54 ◼   ► has happened here is, you know, love em or hate 'em and old boys

00:55:57 ◼   ► are easy to hate 'em.

00:55:59 ◼   ► They're a good product company.

00:56:00 ◼   ► Yes.

00:56:01 ◼   ► Oh, I mean I mean look, we can be idealistic and and and and

00:56:06 ◼   ► be um you know and and pretend that Instagram has not revolutionized modern society

00:56:12 ◼   ► or we can just accept the truth and reality for what it is.

00:56:16 ◼   ► And the Instagram that we have now, it's the one you bought.

00:56:19 ◼   ► Like it just isn't, right?

00:56:20 ◼   ► Like it's a different thing.

00:56:21 ◼   ► It's just a different thing.

00:56:22 ◼   ► Instagram and WhatsApp they're the two biggest, most important consumer apps in the Western

00:56:28 ◼   ► market.

00:56:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:29 ◼   ► Simple as that.

00:56:31 ◼   ► Um so yeah, they got people that know how to make consumer software.

00:56:36 ◼   ► And I think that was actually what they needed, right?

00:56:38 ◼   ► Stop trying to be a Frontier lab.

00:56:41 ◼   ► Like stop trying to build the best models.

00:56:43 ◼   ► But here's a make a product out of them.

00:56:46 ◼   ► What I think is fascinating is that

00:56:50 ◼   ► they actually have a shot at also being a frontier company.

00:56:55 ◼   ► But that's nice if you can do it, right?

00:56:57 ◼   ► It's if you can do it.

00:56:58 ◼   ► I don't think they need that.

00:56:59 ◼   ► I uh I exactly I I think really they they just need to be

00:57:02 ◼   ► able to build a really good product.

00:57:04 ◼   ► And I mean Muse shows it because with Muse, they've had for the past

00:57:08 ◼   ► few weeks the number one app without the best model.

00:57:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:13 ◼   ► And and they said their new Muse Wonder family of models will power muse

00:57:20 ◼   ► eventually, but it's not right now and it hasn't until today.

00:57:26 ◼   ► So you turns out you can make a pretty good agent s uh convince

00:57:31 ◼   ► consumers to use it, some of them to even pay for it without having

00:57:37 ◼   ► the best model.

00:57:38 ◼   ► Oh, they have a pay option for this?

00:57:40 ◼   ► They do.

00:57:40 ◼   ► They do if you want to increase your usage.

00:57:42 ◼   ► They got a they got a subscription.

00:57:44 ◼   ► So first of all, I think I think the the one thing that Meta

00:57:48 ◼   ► did right.

00:57:51 ◼   ► And of and again, set aside the fact that it's Meta collects your data,

00:57:55 ◼   ► whatever.

00:57:56 ◼   ► Like just consider the product and put yourself in John Turnus' shoes right now.

00:58:01 ◼   ► You're looking at this, right?

00:58:03 ◼   ► You're having conversations and you look at the app store and you realize meta

00:58:07 ◼   ► are, I believe Jason called it on upgrade, the arch enemy

00:58:13 ◼   ► of Apple as the number one app on the App Store.

00:58:16 ◼   ► And you're John Turners and you're looking at this and you think, okay, Craig.

00:58:20 ◼   ► You know, Craig is sitting to the right on on the on this imaginary

00:58:23 ◼   ► table thinking, Craig, what's our answer?

00:58:26 ◼   ► And so we look at the product.

00:58:29 ◼   ► What is it about Muse?

00:58:30 ◼   ► First of all, it's silly, right?

00:58:32 ◼   ► It's cute.

00:58:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:33 ◼   ► And it's funny.

00:58:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:35 ◼   ► And I think they pretty much nailed the design.

00:58:39 ◼   ► And what I think Meta has done

00:58:43 ◼   ► well compared to others in the industry is they have

00:58:51 ◼   ► built an agent product

00:58:54 ◼   ► that is intelligent and flexible enough without requiring much setup.

00:59:02 ◼   ► I was I did some research about this.

00:59:05 ◼   ► The um one of the lead engineers that they hired as part of the

00:59:11 ◼   ► um what's it called?

00:59:13 ◼   ► Meta superintelligence labs, MSL.

00:59:16 ◼   ► Um the head of product and applied research at MSL, Nat Friedman, uh joined

00:59:23 ◼   ► in July twenty twenty five alongside uh the um Alexander Wang from Scale AI.

00:59:30 ◼   ► See the guy that they paid like a jib a gab billion dollars to?

00:59:33 ◼   ► Okay.

00:59:34 ◼   ► Yes.

00:59:35 ◼   ► Was a really big hire in the industry.

00:59:37 ◼   ► And he's always out front with Mark now.

00:59:40 ◼   ► Yes.

00:59:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:40 ◼   ► Yes.

00:59:42 ◼   ► But Nat Friedman is the mind behind

00:59:47 ◼   ► making an agent hardness.

00:59:49 ◼   ► I know it's your favorite word

00:59:52 ◼   ► that actually works for consumers.

00:59:54 ◼   ► Okay.

00:59:55 ◼   ► Oh yeah, thank you, Zoe.

00:59:56 ◼   ► I totally forgot that.

00:59:57 ◼   ► Nat was also former GitHub CEO.

00:59:59 ◼   ► That's where I know that name from.

01:00:00 ◼   ► Okay.

01:00:00 ◼   ► Uh like the whole time I'm like, why do I know that name?

01:00:03 ◼   ► Okay.

01:00:03 ◼   ► Pretty big name in the industry, yes.

01:00:05 ◼   ► Wild to be the CEO of a company like GitHub and you just go

01:00:08 ◼   ► work a Facebook.

01:00:11 ◼   ► It's a funny thing.

01:00:12 ◼   ► I mean, I know the scales are different, but it's just funny.

01:00:15 ◼   ► So if you take a look at uh Muse under the hood, it's actually

01:00:19 ◼   ► reusing some of the concepts that Peter Steinberger invented with OpenClaw.

01:00:24 ◼   ► I mean, obviously, right?

01:00:25 ◼   ► Like this that's the grandfather of them all or whatever.

01:00:28 ◼   ► Yeah, like the markdown document called soul.md.

01:00:33 ◼   ► Muse actually has one of those.

01:00:36 ◼   ► Um the whole thing with like remembering things, using tools, it's very much why

01:00:43 ◼   ► do we need to call it a soul?

01:00:44 ◼   ► I don't know why can't it be called literally anything else?

01:00:47 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:00:48 ◼   ► You know?

01:00:48 ◼   ► But I think So here's what I'm getting at.

01:00:51 ◼   ► Here's uh and and I'm gonna I'm gonna get to what I think Apple

01:00:54 ◼   ► will do.

01:00:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:56 ◼   ► If you take a look at all these uh agent products, but especially Muse,

01:01:01 ◼   ► um it's uh they all have some common traits.

01:01:07 ◼   ► First of all, there's two macro categories of them.

01:01:10 ◼   ► There's the agents for nerds like me that you run on your own computer.

01:01:15 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:01:16 ◼   ► Open claw, Hermes.

01:01:18 ◼   ► Um, you know, you can make your own with with the Pi harness if

01:01:22 ◼   ► you're so inclined.

01:01:24 ◼   ► And then there's a consumer version that is hosted in the cloud.

01:01:29 ◼   ► Chat GPT dots uh or meta muse, for example.

01:01:34 ◼   ► Those agents they have a system called a harness.

01:01:38 ◼   ► The harness is basically the machinery behind the scenes that tells a model how

01:01:43 ◼   ► to have agency.

01:01:45 ◼   ► That's why they're called agents, because they do things.

01:01:48 ◼   ► Um and and in to do these things, they have connectors.

01:01:54 ◼   ► So they have third-party integrations.

01:01:56 ◼   ► Well Apple has those, right?

01:01:58 ◼   ► To an extent.

01:02:00 ◼   ► But they also all have a virtual computer.

01:02:04 ◼   ► Right.

01:02:05 ◼   ► All of these agents, they have some variation of a cloud VM.

01:02:11 ◼   ► So a virtual machine, you usually running Linux that allows his agents Linux truly

01:02:18 ◼   ► yeah uh allows his agents to have a file system to have a shell

01:02:24 ◼   ► to have a uh some kind of Chromium browser And to compensate for their

01:02:31 ◼   ► lack of knowledge or agency in some fields with those tools.

01:02:36 ◼   ► So you give a model a bunch of tools, you give a model a

01:02:39 ◼   ► virtual computer, you sandbox that computer suddenly you have an agent.

01:02:44 ◼   ► I'm simplifying, but that's how it works.

01:02:46 ◼   ► Now, now you're John Turnus.

01:02:49 ◼   ► Again, you're sitting at the table, you think, Craig, what do we have?

01:02:54 ◼   ► So it's interesting, right?

01:02:56 ◼   ► Because then you gotta zoom out and you gotta realize, okay, why are people

01:03:01 ◼   ► what what do regular people do with muse?

01:03:03 ◼   ► All these companies they like to give these demos were like, oh, I got

01:03:06 ◼   ► my muse to uh um

01:03:09 ◼   ► Buy me concert tickets.

01:03:10 ◼   ► Plan a trip.

01:03:11 ◼   ► Do the grocery.

01:03:12 ◼   ► Plan a trip.

01:03:13 ◼   ► Like, okay, sure.

01:03:15 ◼   ► But I think

01:03:18 ◼   ► there's there's gotta be something more to that, right?

01:03:22 ◼   ► And so speaking from my personal experience, the reason why I like using these

01:03:26 ◼   ► agents is

01:03:28 ◼   ► having tasks that run for long, or having these agents remember things about me.

01:03:36 ◼   ► That's obviously one of the one of the easy first additions to see.

01:03:42 ◼   ► Easy.

01:03:43 ◼   ► Giant air quotes.

01:03:44 ◼   ► Like one of the first obvious additions to see would be like just remember

01:03:47 ◼   ► stuff about me.

01:03:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:48 ◼   ► Like remember that I like to, I don't know work in some specific apps.

01:03:53 ◼   ► Remember that I like my documents to be formatted in a special way.

01:03:58 ◼   ► So support for memory is is one of the key characteristics.

01:04:02 ◼   ► But also support for Doing multiple things in a row, even for several minutes.

01:04:08 ◼   ► That's one of the like you ask Muse, hey Muse, can you I don't

01:04:12 ◼   ► know, take a look at my email, find um um invitations for online meetings

01:04:20 ◼   ► that I have over the next few weeks, take each one and put a

01:04:24 ◼   ► calendar entry in my calendar, right?

01:04:27 ◼   ► Siri can probably do some of that, but it's gonna stop.

01:04:31 ◼   ► At some point.

01:04:32 ◼   ► It's not the the harness behind Siri is not designed to be long running.

01:04:37 ◼   ► It's designed to serve you a good answer in the shortest amount of time

01:04:41 ◼   ► possible.

01:04:42 ◼   ► So the other obvious thing missing from Siri is.

01:04:46 ◼   ► Let it run for longer for more complicated tasks.

01:04:50 ◼   ► And then there's part about the computer.

01:04:52 ◼   ► Now that's where I'm the most skeptical because I'm willing to bet money that

01:04:57 ◼   ► Apple will never use any kind of Linux VM, right?

01:05:01 ◼   ► I think we're all in agreement that Apple is never gonna let you

01:05:05 ◼   ► set up.

01:05:06 ◼   ► It seems unlikely.

01:05:07 ◼   ► I'm even gonna say I do not think Apple is ever going to show

01:05:13 ◼   ► you the virtual screen of a VM inside a Siri agent.

01:05:20 ◼   ► I feel incredibly confident to say that part.

01:05:23 ◼   ► Like it you never know what they're gonna do.

01:05:25 ◼   ► Like but the idea that yes, it would you'd see something that wasn't an

01:05:29 ◼   ► Apple product, like impossible.

01:05:31 ◼   ► Right.

01:05:32 ◼   ► So I don't know what's a good solution for them.

01:05:37 ◼   ► I doubt that they're going to go the perplexity route.

01:05:42 ◼   ► Well just just to step back a second.

01:05:44 ◼   ► You you think that they will do something agent based?

01:05:50 ◼   ► Oh I think they will do a series agent, yes.

01:05:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:53 ◼   ► Okay.

01:05:54 ◼   ► Yes.

01:05:54 ◼   ► I think they will land on a solution that doesn't need a VM.

01:05:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:01 ◼   ► Uh because they control the operating system.

01:06:04 ◼   ► I think they will if I were to make a prediction, I think they

01:06:08 ◼   ► will create create their own native Siri agent harness that runs directly on the

01:06:12 ◼   ► OS.

01:06:13 ◼   ► They don't need to virtualize anything because they control the operating system.

01:06:18 ◼   ► You can just give a Siri access to the entire user file system.

01:06:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:23 ◼   ► You can just give Siri access to Safari and WebKit in the background.

01:06:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:27 ◼   ► Right.

01:06:28 ◼   ► I think if anything, it becomes more of a design challenge for them.

01:06:33 ◼   ► Well, two challenges.

01:06:35 ◼   ► Design.

01:06:36 ◼   ► How how do you present this to users in a non creepy and intuitive

01:06:39 ◼   ► way?

01:06:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:40 ◼   ► And two, let's not forget the models.

01:06:44 ◼   ► Well no also, like where is it running?

01:06:47 ◼   ► Where is it running?

01:06:49 ◼   ► Yeah, like if I ask a question On your phone, on your phone in

01:06:52 ◼   ► the background.

01:06:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:54 ◼   ► I think you're gonna have a a little a little background process for the

01:06:57 ◼   ► Siri agent that runs in the background, okay, wakes up maybe every few minutes

01:07:01 ◼   ► and remembers things about you and takes its own little internal notes.

01:07:06 ◼   ► Right.

01:07:07 ◼   ► Maybe you can even see some of those internal notes in the form of

01:07:10 ◼   ► memories.

01:07:10 ◼   ► They make a really nice UI for those memories.

01:07:14 ◼   ► Because I just wonder if I give it like a task.

01:07:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:18 ◼   ► Yeah, you got a little live you got a little live activity, maybe, right?

01:07:23 ◼   ► Okay.

01:07:23 ◼   ► Uh yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:25 ◼   ► All right.

01:07:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:26 ◼   ► Um I think the biggest challenge is the design of it all and the

01:07:30 ◼   ► model behind the scenes.

01:07:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:32 ◼   ► Um, I I wrote in my review that um

01:07:37 ◼   ► the the biggest problem with Siri AI for me at the moment is the

01:07:40 ◼   ► fact that it's distilled from a Gemini model and it exhibits the classic traits

01:07:47 ◼   ► of a Gemini model, which is it sucks at multiple tool calls.

01:07:53 ◼   ► I mean, you'd assume that they think that Google b must believe they have

01:07:57 ◼   ► some well, I mean they shot off Google Spark, right?

01:08:00 ◼   ► Which is their agent, but that has not materialized yet.

01:08:05 ◼   ► Not really.

01:08:05 ◼   ► Not really.

01:08:06 ◼   ► Um I think and obviously all of this is gonna be based on App

01:08:11 ◼   ► Intense, right?

01:08:11 ◼   ► Um figure.

01:08:13 ◼   ► Uh the the what's interesting about that

01:08:18 ◼   ► is app intents so far have been ideal for quick actions, quick retrievals showing

01:08:27 ◼   ► you a little UI snippets.

01:08:30 ◼   ► Whereas with agents we move to multiple to a different level of abstraction where

01:08:37 ◼   ► you don't necessarily see a to do STUI, right?

01:08:41 ◼   ► If you want your agents to your agent to manage your tasks, right?

01:08:45 ◼   ► And maybe it's happening in the background.

01:08:48 ◼   ► Um I am convinced though that it'll be based on App Intense.

01:08:53 ◼   ► I think um

01:08:56 ◼   ► I think the

01:08:58 ◼   ► I think it'll we will see Apple expand the models.

01:09:07 ◼   ► I think they will need to make some concept concessions in the form of

01:09:12 ◼   ► letting users choose.

01:09:13 ◼   ► Like, do you actually want your agent to think about this for long and

01:09:17 ◼   ► to work about to work on this task for several minutes?

01:09:21 ◼   ► Like they will need to introduce some friction.

01:09:26 ◼   ► I do think

01:09:28 ◼   ► I do think it's a challenge for them to both show to consumers that

01:09:34 ◼   ► they can have something equivalent to Muse,

01:09:38 ◼   ► right?

01:09:39 ◼   ► Uh f for the things that people do in Muse.

01:09:42 ◼   ► But also I think Apple will want to retain the power users.

01:09:46 ◼   ► I think it's I think there's a maybe this is a separate conversation.

01:09:50 ◼   ► There's whole thing about like Apple losing the power user narrative right now, um,

01:09:56 ◼   ► with people like me, for example, uh building their entire digital ecosystems maybe inside

01:10:04 ◼   ► cloud or maybe inside chat GPT.

01:10:06 ◼   ► And that's a risk for Apple, right?

01:10:08 ◼   ► Because the moment that those companies w the moment you built a digital ecosystem

01:10:13 ◼   ► inside their their their their products.

01:10:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:16 ◼   ► Well, OpenAI obviously will be the first one to sell you hardware in the

01:10:20 ◼   ► future.

01:10:21 ◼   ► And so maybe Apple doesn't maybe Apple wants to fight that sort of new

01:10:25 ◼   ► halo effect coming from the AI companies.

01:10:29 ◼   ► Um I do think there will be a Siri agent.

01:10:33 ◼   ► I think they will need to show off a a simple and intuitive design

01:10:38 ◼   ► that can accomplish fast tasks like Muse.

01:10:43 ◼   ► At the same time, I also think they will need to show off the

01:10:46 ◼   ► more power user version of a Siri agent.

01:10:49 ◼   ► Also a version they can charge money for.

01:10:52 ◼   ► If you want to use the more complex models that require more thinking and

01:10:57 ◼   ► you don't wanna run into limits, you gotta pay.

01:11:00 ◼   ► Which is maybe why knowing Apple and how they plan things in advance, uh

01:11:05 ◼   ► maybe why they said this year, oh eventually there'll be usage limits.

01:11:10 ◼   ► Because I mean uh one thing I know I think I know about Apple

01:11:15 ◼   ► is that they can be late to the product.

01:11:18 ◼   ► They very l very rarely and especially after how they were they were caught

01:11:26 ◼   ► flat footed with AI, I don't think they are late to noticing things anymore.

01:11:32 ◼   ► I think they pay attention.

01:11:33 ◼   ► And I think they obviously know um that um people are moving to these

01:11:39 ◼   ► ty different types of AI products.

01:11:42 ◼   ► Um and I think maybe they knew that a product like Muse was bound

01:11:48 ◼   ► to happen.

01:11:49 ◼   ► Maybe they were caught like us by surprise by the fact that it was

01:11:52 ◼   ► meta and the fact that it happened just nine months after OpenClaw.

01:11:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:58 ◼   ► But I think they're paying attention.

01:12:00 ◼   ► And I think I think they have to make a Siri agent uh next

01:12:06 ◼   ► year in 28

01:12:09 ◼   ► And if they don't I'm just gonna say it now I think they're gonna

01:12:12 ◼   ► have a problem

01:12:14 ◼   ► yeah I mean

01:12:17 ◼   ► I think that this is a clearly a dimension that the technology industry is

01:12:23 ◼   ► moving towards, right?

01:12:26 ◼   ► Therefore they should have if you're in this at all, which they are, you

01:12:32 ◼   ► gotta be in it.

01:12:33 ◼   ► Right?

01:12:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:12:34 ◼   ► Like you gotta have the Apple version of it.

01:12:36 ◼   ► You could decide Apple could decide they don't wanna, right?

01:12:40 ◼   ► They could make that decision if they wanted to.

01:12:42 ◼   ► But they didn't.

01:12:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:12:45 ◼   ► Like they could very easily be like we're not gonna do that.

01:12:47 ◼   ► We're gonna support developers of AI companies on our platform, right?

01:12:52 ◼   ► We're gonna make sure we have a robust set of API that they can

01:12:55 ◼   ► use.

01:12:56 ◼   ► That is a very realistic route that they could have taken and it probably

01:13:01 ◼   ► would have been fine, right?

01:13:02 ◼   ► Like they could have just built a bunch of hooks.

01:13:05 ◼   ► They have decided they want to be in this race.

01:13:07 ◼   ► And like i today there was a few quotes from Greg Joswiak in a

01:13:12 ◼   ► Time article.

01:13:13 ◼   ► And like and he's referencing like he says a phrase which is not a

01:13:17 ◼   ► great phrase to use, but it it has a lot of historical thing.

01:13:22 ◼   ► He's as i it's from I think it's from a song and he he

01:13:26 ◼   ► references like They're not

01:13:29 ◼   ► in the lunatic fringe of AI.

01:13:32 ◼   ► What does that mean?

01:13:33 ◼   ► Lunatic fringe is a phrase

01:13:37 ◼   ► it's popularized by a song, I think.

01:13:39 ◼   ► It means extreme eccentric or fanatical minority with Within a political, social, or cultural

01:13:44 ◼   ► movement.

01:13:45 ◼   ► And it's like, I agree with that.

01:13:46 ◼   ► You shouldn't like that is like what you were talking about earlier right?

01:13:51 ◼   ► And like it doesn't sound nice to say that you're in the lunatic fringe.

01:13:55 ◼   ► Yeah I wouldn't have called it a lunatic fruit.

01:13:57 ◼   ► But when I describe what it describe what it means, you're like, Yeah, okay,

01:14:01 ◼   ► like I am on the edge.

01:14:03 ◼   ► Like you, yes, like you are on the edge of AI, right?

01:14:06 ◼   ► And that is where you want to be.

01:14:08 ◼   ► And so like I I think like of a lot of things that just

01:14:11 ◼   ► says I wouldn't say it that way, uh but you have decided to say

01:14:15 ◼   ► it that way.

01:14:16 ◼   ► So fine, I guess.

01:14:18 ◼   ► But I agree with his point, right?

01:14:19 ◼   ► They are not there and they shouldn't be there, which means that like for

01:14:23 ◼   ► them to not have an agent product today makes sense to me.

01:14:28 ◼   ► Yes.

01:14:29 ◼   ► I think and and I agree with Jason on this.

01:14:32 ◼   ► He's like, I don't think we should wait until WWDC to see this, right?

01:14:37 ◼   ► Like I think that my Might be a little too far.

01:14:40 ◼   ► Like if you're w if they are working on something, you know, maybe like

01:14:44 ◼   ► let's let's push it out a bit quicker if we can.

01:14:48 ◼   ► But anyway, they have chosen they want to be in this.

01:14:52 ◼   ► So now you have to be in it.

01:14:53 ◼   ► Right?

01:14:54 ◼   ► You you can't just be like, oh, everyone seems to be doing this.

01:14:58 ◼   ► They seem to be popular.

01:15:01 ◼   ► You know the answer to that.

01:15:02 ◼   ► Like Apple knows the answer.

01:15:03 ◼   ► Like are people just downloading news and then never using it, right?

01:15:07 ◼   ► Like they probably know the answer to that question.

01:15:10 ◼   ► So you'd expect them to be

01:15:13 ◼   ► they have to have an answer.

01:15:15 ◼   ► They have to do something.

01:15:16 ◼   ► I don't know what it is.

01:15:17 ◼   ► I don't know how hard they're gonna go.

01:15:19 ◼   ► But like it's like it goes back to the the the serie AI of

01:15:22 ◼   ► it all, right?

01:15:23 ◼   ► Like they did not go as hard as their competitors.

01:15:26 ◼   ► But they can do something.

01:15:29 ◼   ► And so we'll see where they go.

01:15:32 ◼   ► But yeah, I think it's an interesting look at like where the industry is

01:15:36 ◼   ► now and and this actually might be the next consumer product, right?

01:15:40 ◼   ► Chat GPT was the first consumer product.

01:15:43 ◼   ► And then like a chat bot experience is being used by hundreds of millions

01:15:47 ◼   ► of people, billions maybe of people.

01:15:49 ◼   ► One point two.

01:15:50 ◼   ► Um like I I mean like across everyone, right?

01:15:53 ◼   ► Like

01:15:54 ◼   ► everyone um who is using like like all the platforms, right?

01:15:58 ◼   ► Like are you using this, are you using Claude?

01:16:01 ◼   ► Are you using whatever?

01:16:02 ◼   ► Like Gemini, people are using these products all the time.

01:16:07 ◼   ► Um, it seems like maybe now agent products could be the next thing.

01:16:11 ◼   ► And then obviously you've got coding products as well, but they're not being used

01:16:14 ◼   ► by consumers.

01:16:15 ◼   ► No, they're not.

01:16:16 ◼   ► Um and so th this maybe is the next product.

01:16:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:16:22 ◼   ► And I think it's it's basically the, you know, people, regular people realizing, oh,

01:16:26 ◼   ► you know, uh three years ago, oh I can chat.

01:16:30 ◼   ► V with a with a with a virtual assistant.

01:16:33 ◼   ► Yep.

01:16:33 ◼   ► And now the same people that have not followed what has been happening in

01:16:39 ◼   ► the past year, realizing, oh, this AI can do things on my behalf.

01:16:45 ◼   ► That's simple realization that people have.

01:16:47 ◼   ► Like, oh, it can actually do stuff.

01:16:50 ◼   ► Like I I thought it could only answer.

01:16:52 ◼   ► That's the simple version.

01:16:55 ◼   ► And it and if you've been using these tools, you know this was gonna

01:16:58 ◼   ► happen.

01:16:58 ◼   ► I mean if you've been using Claude, Claude has been able to, I don't

01:17:02 ◼   ► know, make PDFs or you know, edit spreadsheets or control Google Chrome, but it

01:17:08 ◼   ► was all very, you know, scattershot and and fragmented.

01:17:11 ◼   ► And now, you know, there's a company, Meta, in this case, that has found

01:17:15 ◼   ► a way to package it up in a nice friendly way.

01:17:19 ◼   ► And therefore, millions of people have realized, oh, I guess AI can do things

01:17:24 ◼   ► now.

01:17:25 ◼   ► So it's I think you're right.

01:17:26 ◼   ► I think it's it's shaping up to be the next thing.

01:17:31 ◼   ► Um I still think it's a ironic and funny and concerning that it was

01:17:37 ◼   ► not OpenAI, especially after all the money and the build-up that they have done.

01:17:47 ◼   ► And that they have a product, but it's not widely available.

01:17:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:51 ◼   ► Right.

01:17:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:51 ◼   ► It's like Yeah, d I cannot I do not have access to dots.

01:17:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:55 ◼   ► But even personally.

01:17:57 ◼   ► I don't is it in Italy?

01:17:59 ◼   ► No.

01:18:00 ◼   ► Well only if you have a a business account, which I don't Yeah.

01:18:04 ◼   ► But that's the thing of like even if you're in a territory where it's

01:18:07 ◼   ► available, you have to pay them a lot of money currently.

01:18:11 ◼   ► Oh yes.

01:18:12 ◼   ► And like obviously this is not the plan, but it's like, well, but well

01:18:15 ◼   ► what what's all this investment for then?

01:18:17 ◼   ► Like What is it for if you're not gonna be there?

01:18:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:22 ◼   ► They are in a in a in an odd predicament right now because they're

01:18:27 ◼   ► not as strong in the enterprise as they want to be because of anthropic

01:18:32 ◼   ► and they're and and the Claude five five models.

01:18:35 ◼   ► And now they're weak in the consumer space.

01:18:37 ◼   ► And now they're consumer space.

01:18:39 ◼   ► Oh man.

01:18:41 ◼   ► I would never want to be Sam Altman.

01:18:43 ◼   ► I don't want to be him right now.

01:18:45 ◼   ► No, not right now.

01:18:46 ◼   ► So the rumor so while we're wrapping this up, the rumors are pointing to

01:18:51 ◼   ► a big open AI comeback in December.

01:18:55 ◼   ► Um, with this apparently, you know, and I'm like the the the latest from

01:19:00 ◼   ► the front, Mike.

01:19:02 ◼   ► The front from the front seat.

01:19:03 ◼   ► From the front lines.

01:19:04 ◼   ► The from the front lines, uh uh apparently OpenAI fast tracked the um the

01:19:10 ◼   ► training run for this giant model that they have codenamed Bell, B-E-L.

01:19:17 ◼   ► Um, that's apparently even bigger than Fable.

01:19:22 ◼   ► Um but of course uh there's Fable five five coming out and there are

01:19:28 ◼   ► already early rumors of an Opus six before the end of the year.

01:19:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean these I like it's funny, like, oh uh we're gonna like

01:19:39 ◼   ► there's rumors that they're gonna have a comeback.

01:19:41 ◼   ► You can't decide if you have a comeback.

01:19:44 ◼   ► Right.

01:19:44 ◼   ► Right?

01:19:44 ◼   ► Like the comeback has just happened.

01:19:47 ◼   ► Like you can't just oh we're gonna have a oh man, you wait, we're

01:19:50 ◼   ► gonna have such a comeback.

01:19:52 ◼   ► So so this is a maybe a separate conversation, but I think the reason

01:19:56 ◼   ► why some people s uh think that and say that is because most people

01:20:01 ◼   ► in this industry don't care about the company.

01:20:04 ◼   ► They just want to have the best models.

01:20:07 ◼   ► Right?

01:20:07 ◼   ► Which is a very, very different scene from oh, I wanna choose between iOS

01:20:13 ◼   ► and Android.

01:20:14 ◼   ► And I mean I've seen this myself on on me.

01:20:17 ◼   ► Like I I've been hopping between whoever, between Open AI and Anthropic Offers the

01:20:22 ◼   ► best models.

01:20:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:23 ◼   ► There's no

01:20:25 ◼   ► strong attachment to either.

01:20:29 ◼   ► Um, as much as I may have with say my iPhone versus a Samsung

01:20:33 ◼   ► phone.

01:20:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:34 ◼   ► It's very different.

01:20:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:36 ◼   ► No.

01:20:37 ◼   ► Anyway.

01:20:39 ◼   ► Thank you for listening to this episode of Connected.

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01:21:17 ◼   ► Federico is the editor in chief of maxstories.net, where he writes and podcasts and

01:21:22 ◼   ► everything.

01:21:23 ◼   ► If you want more Federico in your life, that is the place to go

01:21:26 ◼   ► and get it.

01:21:27 ◼   ► Um I am the host of shows here on Relay.

01:21:30 ◼   ► Uh you can check out my work here on relay.fm.

01:21:33 ◼   ► Stephen will be back next week.

01:21:35 ◼   ► Look forward to it.

01:21:37 ◼   ► Federico, have you got your alarm set for duo pre orders tomorrow?

01:21:41 ◼   ► Yes.

01:21:42 ◼   ► Oh boy, it's gonna be a stressful day.

01:21:44 ◼   ► Right.

01:21:44 ◼   ► It's just it's just gonna be bad.

01:21:46 ◼   ► Like it's just gonna I just convinced it's it's gonna be bad.

01:21:49 ◼   ► Like it's gonna be like old times, you know?

01:21:52 ◼   ► Stressful.

01:21:53 ◼   ► I'm not looking forward to it.

01:21:54 ◼   ► It is gonna be bad.

01:21:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:21:55 ◼   ► No, I'd thank you for listening.

01:21:56 ◼   ► I want to thank Squarespace for sponsoring.

01:21:59 ◼   ► We'll be back next time.

01:22:00 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye, Federico.

01:22:01 ◼   ► Ariudi.

01:22:03 ◼   ► Bye.