The Incomparable

251: Tea, Sandwiches, and Mushrooms


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00:00:23   surt192xlbp in comfortable number 251 [TS]

00:00:31   jun 2015 [TS]

00:00:36   welcome back everybody to be [TS]

00:00:37   uncomfortable i'm your host Jason Steele [TS]

00:00:39   we're reconvening our group of people [TS]

00:00:41   who read all of the nebula nominated [TS]

00:00:43   novels the novel's nominated by the [TS]

00:00:45   science-fiction writers association for [TS]

00:00:48   best novel of the year last year there [TS]

00:00:50   were eight this year there are only six [TS]

00:00:53   so little less reading we're going to do [TS]

00:00:56   sort of i would say we're going to try [TS]

00:00:58   to keep the spoilers not too heavy so [TS]

00:01:00   you should be able to listen to us talk [TS]

00:01:01   about these novels and decide if you [TS]

00:01:03   want to read them if you haven't already [TS]

00:01:04   so let me tell you who are panel is just [TS]

00:01:07   as it was last year Scott McNulty of [TS]

00:01:09   course I wouldn't do a book club without [TS]

00:01:11   him [TS]

00:01:11   hi Scott hello welcome back it's good to [TS]

00:01:14   be back I feel like I haven't been on [TS]

00:01:16   the uncomfortable and forever [TS]

00:01:17   I know you too busy with your own stuff [TS]

00:01:19   you got stuff you're writing a book you [TS]

00:01:20   doing your own podcast or busy busy busy [TS]

00:01:23   man but I missed you I missed you too [TS]

00:01:25   I'm glad we're here together yes also [TS]

00:01:27   joining us a Fred cash longtime listener [TS]

00:01:29   returning guest you can hear him at the [TS]

00:01:32   three horsemen podcast which is sort of [TS]

00:01:34   spun out of SF signal hi Fred I there [TS]

00:01:37   and what to be decidedly is your I've [TS]

00:01:39   been listening since like episode 8 [TS]

00:01:41   something like that episode a single [TS]

00:01:43   digits I think you've been around seems [TS]

00:01:45   like just yesterday also out there Paul [TS]

00:01:48   lemur you may know him from the skippy [TS]

00:01:50   and fancy podcast which is how the [TS]

00:01:52   co-host of and uh SF signal as well [TS]

00:01:54   hi Paul hello Jason hello in copper [TS]

00:01:57   listeners I'm glad to be back welcome [TS]

00:01:59   back and Sean Duke from skippy and [TS]

00:02:02   vanity and the totally pretentious [TS]

00:02:04   podcast is also out there hi Sean hello [TS]

00:02:07   I will be your resident curmudgeon [TS]

00:02:08   tonight well you can you have to her [TS]

00:02:11   much [TS]

00:02:12   McNulty for that title but i will come [TS]

00:02:15   much the heck Adam okay good [TS]

00:02:17   I don't know about that these young [TS]

00:02:19   starts we're going to occur much your [TS]

00:02:21   budget together [TS]

00:02:23   okay so we got we've got six novel [TS]

00:02:27   nominations here actually by the time [TS]

00:02:29   that this podcast is released i believe [TS]

00:02:31   there will be a winner [TS]

00:02:31   yes yeah i'm only stupefied by the [TS]

00:02:34   inclusion two of these books I have no [TS]

00:02:36   idea why they were included the rest [TS]

00:02:37   pretty good one of these books is the [TS]

00:02:40   sequel to a book that was on this list [TS]

00:02:42   last year [TS]

00:02:44   why don't we start there that would be [TS]

00:02:46   ancillary sword by and lucky [TS]

00:02:49   sequel to ancillary justice you may have [TS]

00:02:51   heard of it we've talked about it on [TS]

00:02:52   like eight different episodes be [TS]

00:02:54   uncomfortable it was nominated for an [TS]

00:02:55   pretty much won every award last year [TS]

00:02:57   this is the sequel and I was trying to [TS]

00:03:00   refresh i read this a little while ago I [TS]

00:03:02   was trying to refresh my memory about [TS]

00:03:04   about what this book is because what I [TS]

00:03:07   remember about is it's not what i [TS]

00:03:08   expected the sequel ancillary justice [TS]

00:03:10   got this kind of broad canvas and and [TS]

00:03:13   you get this character and their she's [TS]

00:03:15   flashing back to previous parts of life [TS]

00:03:19   as a an AI on a starship and now she's [TS]

00:03:22   on the run in theirs and there's a disk [TS]

00:03:25   in a cold planet that they're on and [TS]

00:03:27   then the end up getting on a ship and [TS]

00:03:29   going and attacking the Emperor of the [TS]

00:03:31   of this the Star Empire and this and [TS]

00:03:34   then I then I read a synopsis I was like [TS]

00:03:36   oh yeah this is the one where they get [TS]

00:03:37   stranded on a space station and the in [TS]

00:03:39   the swimming pool leaks that's cold [TS]

00:03:43   there's also a tea plantation yeah so [TS]

00:03:46   we're trying important [TS]

00:03:48   there's a lot of tea there's a lot of [TS]

00:03:49   tea drinking yes so god I I don't want [TS]

00:03:52   to I my point is I was just shocked at [TS]

00:03:56   what this book was because it wasn't [TS]

00:03:58   what I was not expecting i was expecting [TS]

00:03:59   more scope my god is that the last [TS]

00:04:02   chapter of ancillary justice is sort of [TS]

00:04:03   like and then we have a starship and I [TS]

00:04:06   was the captain did the détente' I [TS]

00:04:09   really kind of expected them to go in [TS]

00:04:11   that direction and I suppose it is is [TS]

00:04:13   there sort of sort of like a star trek [TS]

00:04:15   episode in some ways I liked it actually [TS]

00:04:17   a lot but it was it was it was quite a [TS]

00:04:20   change of pace from ancillary justice is [TS]

00:04:21   what i'm saying i didn't like it as much [TS]

00:04:23   as ancillary justice but I did think it [TS]

00:04:25   was good i think she took a bold [TS]

00:04:27   decision and not just doing the same [TS]

00:04:29   thing again and in fact I find parallels [TS]

00:04:32   with this and one that we will be [TS]

00:04:34   talking about later the comet Empire [TS]

00:04:35   novel you know she she didn't do what we [TS]

00:04:38   expected she examines in in-depth one [TS]

00:04:41   planet run by this organization and the [TS]

00:04:45   the good and the bad of what happens so [TS]

00:04:49   I i get kept keep expel k once the shoe [TS]

00:04:52   gonna drop when the shooting started [TS]

00:04:54   never did never really started shooting [TS]

00:04:56   but i did enjoy it because of the ATM [TS]

00:05:00   death looks and altie so there's a lot [TS]

00:05:02   of tea [TS]

00:05:03   oh god what I did think it interesting [TS]

00:05:06   is you're right Fred that this book its [TS]

00:05:08   scale is much more subdued and so I [TS]

00:05:10   thought it was interesting that you know [TS]

00:05:12   she's being identified with what could [TS]

00:05:14   be called the new space opera movement [TS]

00:05:15   and yet with this book it's almost like [TS]

00:05:18   she's doing new planetary romance that's [TS]

00:05:21   the kind of totally total different take [TS]

00:05:24   I think it does suffer a little bit from [TS]

00:05:26   Middle book itís which is a problem [TS]

00:05:29   that i think a lot of middle book suffer [TS]

00:05:32   from and it's hard to kind of escape it [TS]

00:05:33   also probably is suffering and some [TS]

00:05:35   people's minds with the fact that the [TS]

00:05:36   first book basically won every award [TS]

00:05:38   under the Sun including awards probably [TS]

00:05:41   nobody's ever heard of the field and so [TS]

00:05:44   I think no matter what people were going [TS]

00:05:46   to do when they came to this book that [TS]

00:05:48   was going to be in the back of their [TS]

00:05:49   minds and it was something that we [TS]

00:05:50   talked to him like you that she was not [TS]

00:05:53   so much concerned by but it was like [TS]

00:05:54   obviously something that you had to [TS]

00:05:56   think about i liked it though because i [TS]

00:05:59   really love the in-depth sort of [TS]

00:06:01   cultural examination elements [TS]

00:06:03   particularly like T so the fact there's [TS]

00:06:06   lots of tea in it made me happy i also [TS]

00:06:09   appreciate that they're actually tea [TS]

00:06:10   plantations and that was actually being [TS]

00:06:12   discussed on some level but i do think [TS]

00:06:15   it's not quite as strong as ancillary [TS]

00:06:16   sword but still a good book [TS]

00:06:19   it's got I was gonna make a star trek [TS]

00:06:21   parallel just for you which is to say [TS]

00:06:22   that I feel like I feel like I was [TS]

00:06:24   expecting if I was expecting something [TS]

00:06:26   after that last chapter i was expecting [TS]

00:06:28   Star Trek The Next Generation and I got [TS]

00:06:30   a little bit more deep space nine and a [TS]

00:06:32   in a good way that this is this is you [TS]

00:06:36   know the space station and it's a [TS]

00:06:38   particular story and I and I think also [TS]

00:06:41   interesting is there's this whole [TS]

00:06:43   question of what happens when this crew [TS]

00:06:44   and and the people on the station find [TS]

00:06:46   out who break is which happens and it's [TS]

00:06:49   and it's an issue right that the [TS]

00:06:51   identity the identity of the first book [TS]

00:06:54   it's sort of about cultural reaction to [TS]

00:06:56   the identity of that character a little [TS]

00:06:58   bit in the second book anyway how's my [TS]

00:06:59   star trek parallel Scott I like it [TS]

00:07:01   good job Jason thank you how are you and [TS]

00:07:04   I like I like ancillary sort as well [TS]

00:07:06   although i read it a you know like eight [TS]

00:07:08   months ago so who the hell knows what [TS]

00:07:11   happens in it but uh [TS]

00:07:13   i I'm harmonics the pond dreams i do [TS]

00:07:17   remember that i was reading the synopsis [TS]

00:07:18   on wikipedia and it all came back to me [TS]

00:07:22   in a good way [TS]

00:07:23   I mean it's very different outlet and [TS]

00:07:25   I'll just you know [TS]

00:07:26   echo what everyone else said it's [TS]

00:07:27   obviously very different than ancillary [TS]

00:07:30   justice which is a good thing i think [TS]

00:07:31   and it's interesting so she she painted [TS]

00:07:34   this kind of broad picture of her [TS]

00:07:37   universe and now she is playing in a [TS]

00:07:41   particular part of it and giving us a [TS]

00:07:42   little more detail about something so i [TS]

00:07:45   thought it was nice i don't think it [TS]

00:07:47   should win the nebula but I thought it [TS]

00:07:49   was a good book [TS]

00:07:50   stop the metaphor i have for this is [TS]

00:07:52   this is this book is a tea ceremony [TS]

00:07:54   after the big exploding of the first [TS]

00:07:56   novel we have big giant space opera the [TS]

00:07:59   first time in this novel we have a tea [TS]

00:08:02   ceremony a quiet almost a pause it [TS]

00:08:04   I mean most middle books try to go [TS]

00:08:06   bigger batter larger this did the exact [TS]

00:08:10   opposite and giving us this small story [TS]

00:08:13   of a planet and a and its space station [TS]

00:08:16   and there are hints that the aliens are [TS]

00:08:18   going to do something but you don't see [TS]

00:08:19   anything and it's all very quiet and [TS]

00:08:22   subdued in character and character [TS]

00:08:24   focused it is it's it's a tea ceremony [TS]

00:08:26   as middle novel i'm not quite sure it [TS]

00:08:29   completely succeeded it's certainly not [TS]

00:08:32   as incandescent as in summary justice [TS]

00:08:35   was for me but I liked it well enough [TS]

00:08:37   because she was trying to do something [TS]

00:08:39   completely different than most people [TS]

00:08:41   try to do in the middle novels which I [TS]

00:08:42   give it recorded for one of the things I [TS]

00:08:45   like about ancillary justice is the the [TS]

00:08:49   way she kind of takes the this trope the [TS]

00:08:52   space opera troupe of Star Empire's [TS]

00:08:54   right hey star in person who doesn't [TS]

00:08:55   like a good start Empire and says well [TS]

00:08:57   what do we know about empires on earth [TS]

00:08:59   which is that the people they are built [TS]

00:09:01   on the backs of people who are quite [TS]

00:09:03   unfortunate and are treated incredibly [TS]

00:09:05   badly in order to build an empire and [TS]

00:09:08   that's something that does extend to [TS]

00:09:10   this book and I the thing I think [TS]

00:09:12   perhaps rather than the swimming pool [TS]

00:09:14   leaking but the pond licking the thing I [TS]

00:09:15   remember the most is the scenes on the [TS]

00:09:17   planet where we see the people who are [TS]

00:09:20   working on the tee and it's part of this [TS]

00:09:22   being a minority group that's being the [TS]

00:09:25   being oppressed [TS]

00:09:26   and I think I I very clearly remember [TS]

00:09:29   the kid liked the character like goes [TS]

00:09:30   for a run or something like well you [TS]

00:09:32   shouldn't be out anywhere and it's just [TS]

00:09:35   making trouble of finding information [TS]

00:09:36   about who these people are and what's [TS]

00:09:38   going on that the plantation and I [TS]

00:09:40   really enjoyed that continuation of this [TS]

00:09:43   of this approach that she's got to the [TS]

00:09:45   taking the ratch Empire and all of the [TS]

00:09:48   like I all of the connections to it and [TS]

00:09:51   how they're all they're all they're all [TS]

00:09:54   complicit in this kind of awful system [TS]

00:09:57   of empire that that she's in an inside [TS]

00:09:59   of I think that was a that was in this [TS]

00:10:01   book too and I really like that there [TS]

00:10:03   are other good things like when the one [TS]

00:10:06   in Chancellery from the other ship gets [TS]

00:10:09   injured at the captain can understand [TS]

00:10:12   the doctor can't understand why she's so [TS]

00:10:15   concerned about trying to get this [TS]

00:10:17   no spare part fixed night Saigon just [TS]

00:10:20   let her die doesn't ever get used to be [TS]

00:10:22   an ancillary yourself she's like a look [TS]

00:10:24   maybe there's potential for another [TS]

00:10:27   person here there's that and the the [TS]

00:10:29   just the attitude of the the owners of [TS]

00:10:31   the plantation towards a everybody they [TS]

00:10:34   even the little situations where the [TS]

00:10:36   they come up to the station to try to [TS]

00:10:39   start fixing things and the people [TS]

00:10:40   they're like no no you can't do that [TS]

00:10:42   you're gonna you're ruined like for us [TS]

00:10:45   yeah i guess the thing that that that [TS]

00:10:47   struck me about about it out [TS]

00:10:49   I like that it's a change of pace I [TS]

00:10:51   think that too often authors are guilty [TS]

00:10:53   of writing the same book again and again [TS]

00:10:54   because it was successful the first time [TS]

00:10:56   but at the same time the scope of the [TS]

00:10:58   first book is very much like it's a star [TS]

00:11:00   empire and their duplicate copies of the [TS]

00:11:02   Emperor and the feuding with each other [TS]

00:11:04   and there's mysterious aliens doing [TS]

00:11:05   mysterious things and who knows what's [TS]

00:11:07   going to happen next and in this book it [TS]

00:11:09   is more like a more like an intermission [TS]

00:11:12   and in all break in the action there's [TS]

00:11:14   some things going on in the background [TS]

00:11:16   but this is not that scope this is not [TS]

00:11:19   about it in you know it is it is touched [TS]

00:11:23   by it but this is not about we're gonna [TS]

00:11:25   go to the capital and find all of the [TS]

00:11:26   Emperor's and do whatever this is very [TS]

00:11:28   much like we're gonna pause at this at [TS]

00:11:31   this planet this is it it at one point I [TS]

00:11:33   felt like it was almost like a Lois Lois [TS]

00:11:36   McMaster Bujold uh you know proposing a [TS]

00:11:39   novel where was [TS]

00:11:40   like I know we've got this big story but [TS]

00:11:42   where I'm just gonna tell you a story [TS]

00:11:43   about this planet that is just that and [TS]

00:11:45   and that's okay it just took me by [TS]

00:11:47   surprise but but it was good it was not [TS]

00:11:50   incandescent at like like ancillary [TS]

00:11:53   justice i agree but but good and [TS]

00:11:55   entertaining i thought let me take a [TS]

00:11:57   break and tell you about our sponsor new [TS]

00:11:59   sponsor its studio need these people [TS]

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00:12:05   shopping for a last-minute fathers day [TS]

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00:12:11   school [TS]

00:12:12   these are so cool so what does studio [TS]

00:12:15   need make well let's see I've got the [TS]

00:12:16   neat [TS]

00:12:17   I skit it's a set of tools for creating [TS]

00:12:18   this really awesome clear ice you can [TS]

00:12:22   use in cocktails you can use it in ice [TS]

00:12:24   tea you can use it in soda that I i love [TS]

00:12:29   it because you know normal ice that you [TS]

00:12:31   make in your ice maker is cloudy but [TS]

00:12:33   this the system you pour water in an [TS]

00:12:37   insulated thing and you put it in your [TS]

00:12:38   freezer and it freezes and because it's [TS]

00:12:41   insulated there's a bubbly part at the [TS]

00:12:43   bottom and a crystal-clear part of the [TS]

00:12:45   top comes with the chisel so you can pop [TS]

00:12:47   off the crystal clear ice it's really [TS]

00:12:49   cool it's like a spot science experiment [TS]

00:12:51   going on in your freezer and when you're [TS]

00:12:53   done you've got this fancy cocktail bar [TS]

00:12:56   ice that you made yourself [TS]

00:12:58   that's because Tom and Ann at studio [TS]

00:13:00   need made the need I skit they have a [TS]

00:13:02   simple syrup kit it's getting to be iced [TS]

00:13:04   tea time here it's summertime the simple [TS]

00:13:07   syrup get it is a glass bottle it's [TS]

00:13:10   gotta fill line written on it so you put [TS]

00:13:12   in the sugar you put in the water you [TS]

00:13:14   shake it up and you've got simple syrup [TS]

00:13:16   great for sweetening cocktails great for [TS]

00:13:18   sweetening ice-t like i said i use it [TS]

00:13:20   for that it's got this amazing spout it [TS]

00:13:22   is a drip-free spout is the best spout [TS]

00:13:25   that i have ever used for something like [TS]

00:13:27   this and i tried to make my own simple [TS]

00:13:29   syrup get a few years ago it was kind of [TS]

00:13:31   a disaster so that the need [TS]

00:13:33   I skit simple syrup kit are you getting [TS]

00:13:35   it yet the cosmonaut is a wide grip [TS]

00:13:38   stylist that focuses on feel it is super [TS]

00:13:40   if your liver styles for your iphone or [TS]

00:13:42   ipad it is this guy i hate pens and [TS]

00:13:45   pencils [TS]

00:13:46   this is so nice it is wide it is grippy [TS]

00:13:48   if you want to write on a touchscreen [TS]

00:13:50   the cosmonaut is for you and then they [TS]

00:13:52   make the glyph [TS]

00:13:53   which lets you mount your smartphone on [TS]

00:13:55   any tripod you stick the smartphone in [TS]

00:13:58   the glyph and then you put the glyph on [TS]

00:13:59   any standard tripod the it's got that [TS]

00:14:02   it's got the universal tripod thread on [TS]

00:14:04   it so there are so many different things [TS]

00:14:06   that you can check out its to do need to [TS]

00:14:08   get some gift ideas whether it's for [TS]

00:14:10   Father's Day or graduation or something [TS]

00:14:11   later on and i'm going to give you a [TS]

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00:14:21   like that code use code Zeppelin and [TS]

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00:14:26   the store so order soon if you want to [TS]

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00:14:34   can take advantage of prime set shipping [TS]

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00:14:37   thank you so much to studio neat for [TS]

00:14:38   sponsoring incomparable studio knee com [TS]

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00:14:42   all right let's move on to a to trial by [TS]

00:14:45   fire which is a sequel to by Charles [TS]

00:14:48   game and it is equal to a book that was [TS]

00:14:50   nominated for the hugo award last year [TS]

00:14:52   so I read the first book in this series [TS]

00:14:54   and this is the second book in the [TS]

00:14:57   series tales tales and held her and look [TS]

00:14:59   at the Terran Republic you may also [TS]

00:15:01   think you know if it is johnny the [TS]

00:15:04   adventures of Johnny square jaw [TS]

00:15:05   I mean Kane Reardon now the that one was [TS]

00:15:09   also nominated for the nebula yeah was [TS]

00:15:12   it okay so we need to talk about it we [TS]

00:15:14   arrived [TS]

00:15:14   well its back trial by fire so might my [TS]

00:15:18   memory of fire with fire the first one [TS]

00:15:21   was i I think I said it felt like it was [TS]

00:15:23   33 totally different novels in one where [TS]

00:15:26   we sort of like adventure on a planet [TS]

00:15:28   discovered something interesting and [TS]

00:15:30   then it was go meet new aliens and [TS]

00:15:33   finders place in the world and then the [TS]

00:15:34   last third of was like a conspiracy [TS]

00:15:36   thriller as the humans try to figure out [TS]

00:15:39   what to do at this book is less a less [TS]

00:15:44   of a multiple-choice kind of novel than [TS]

00:15:47   then that was it still a no it'sit's [TS]

00:15:50   a-a-and military action adventure story [TS]

00:15:56   about what which I didn't expect talk [TS]

00:15:58   about sequels that that lead me to [TS]

00:16:01   places that I didn't expect I didn't [TS]

00:16:02   expect after all the diplomacy of of [TS]

00:16:06   fire with fire I did [TS]

00:16:07   not expect a straight-up alien invasion [TS]

00:16:09   novel but that's basically what trial by [TS]

00:16:11   fire is and too long [TS]

00:16:13   it'sit's minutes more military SF in [TS]

00:16:15   space opera television i was like i was [TS]

00:16:18   surprised how much pain is offstage in [TS]

00:16:21   this novel I wasn't expecting that [TS]

00:16:23   yeah he goes away for a while yeah I [TS]

00:16:25   mean we get to do we get to see Trevor [TS]

00:16:27   an old Boland true whenever he's [TS]

00:16:29   offstage everyone's like where is he [TS]

00:16:31   let's talk about him K&I miss Kane i [TS]

00:16:36   hope i can simply quene one day that gee [TS]

00:16:38   I wish you were in this city doesn't [TS]

00:16:40   love interests [TS]

00:16:42   uh-huh so there i mean it's kind of like [TS]

00:16:45   everybody knows it which I found really [TS]

00:16:46   amusing like the two women I guess kind [TS]

00:16:49   of know at least one of them know is [TS]

00:16:51   interested for obvious reasons and then [TS]

00:16:52   the other could nose and then they're [TS]

00:16:54   like nine other people who know that [TS]

00:16:56   they know or don't know where they don't [TS]

00:16:57   know which one knows which of detail of [TS]

00:17:00   the romance and so there's lots of this [TS]

00:17:02   discussion because they all know a [TS]

00:17:03   detailed that's important to Cain and [TS]

00:17:05   other people so I a little bit [TS]

00:17:08   complicated but uh yeah kind of it it [TS]

00:17:11   worked i guess that part of it [TS]

00:17:13   this book was dumb oh boy oh boy haha [TS]

00:17:18   all good experience god yeah yeah I I [TS]

00:17:21   didn't like the first one I thought was [TS]

00:17:25   okay i thought this one was also ok but [TS]

00:17:29   I I don't like the character I think [TS]

00:17:32   that the aliens are kind of stupid [TS]

00:17:35   I ice i read the whole book so i didn't [TS]

00:17:38   i didn't stop reading it but I didn't [TS]

00:17:41   feel like I felt I with my life was not [TS]

00:17:44   enriched by reading this book a I don't [TS]

00:17:49   know I don't know I don't understand [TS]

00:17:50   this is one of the one of the two books [TS]

00:17:52   that i am confused as to why it was [TS]

00:17:54   nominated for a nebula I guess maybe [TS]

00:17:56   people just like mr. cat and but uh or [TS]

00:18:00   dr. Gannon [TS]

00:18:02   I don't get it lowered again into you [TS]

00:18:05   haha space Lord cash for what it is it's [TS]

00:18:09   competent at what it is [TS]

00:18:10   hi prey is well its military SF yeah he [TS]

00:18:15   spells on numbers and letters correctly [TS]

00:18:17   it's it's it essentially adventurer SF [TS]

00:18:21   in a military setting it's me [TS]

00:18:23   I think it has more link with with space [TS]

00:18:25   after that is military SF but that's [TS]

00:18:27   kind of me and my weird definition so [TS]

00:18:30   the first book felt very space opera [TS]

00:18:31   like and this one has moments of space [TS]

00:18:34   opera but the the series actually that [TS]

00:18:36   reminded me the most an idea i'm not [TS]

00:18:38   close to being well-read in military SF [TS]

00:18:41   but it did remind me of John John [TS]

00:18:42   birmingham so acts of time which is [TS]

00:18:46   about that that 21st century naval fleet [TS]

00:18:49   that goes back and change the course of [TS]

00:18:50   the Second World War [TS]

00:18:52   alright and i enjoyed those books a lot [TS]

00:18:54   i enjoyed them [TS]

00:18:55   I I feel like there's a little more [TS]

00:18:56   social clash and a little more I mean [TS]

00:18:59   there's some interesting things in those [TS]

00:19:00   books that I felt were not as much in [TS]

00:19:03   this book but but I you know the fact is [TS]

00:19:06   there are long descriptions in this book [TS]

00:19:08   of like how various kinds of ammunition [TS]

00:19:10   work in zero gravity that I just don't [TS]

00:19:13   care about I don't the nuts-and-bolts [TS]

00:19:15   stuff just passes right over me and I [TS]

00:19:18   know I get that some people just love [TS]

00:19:20   that but it's just not those kind of [TS]

00:19:22   mechanics of he's detailing like what [TS]

00:19:25   the weapons are that are made up and how [TS]

00:19:27   they work and like how the physics works [TS]

00:19:29   and all that that's the stuff that just [TS]

00:19:30   rolls over me I did I can I liked it a [TS]

00:19:32   lot better when we had these characters [TS]

00:19:34   doing things I thought the whole stuff [TS]

00:19:36   of everything happening on the island of [TS]

00:19:38   Java and the local population [TS]

00:19:39   interacting with the people who were [TS]

00:19:41   being kind of smuggled in in order to [TS]

00:19:43   make the attack I thought that stuff was [TS]

00:19:45   pretty interesting [TS]

00:19:46   I thought the alien stuff was was ok [TS]

00:19:49   like the idea that the aliens are just [TS]

00:19:52   using earth as a as a it's just part of [TS]

00:19:56   a larger game and they're all trying to [TS]

00:19:57   play each other and so although it seems [TS]

00:19:59   very different from the first novel [TS]

00:20:00   actually what we see in the convocation [TS]

00:20:02   and the first novel is kinda boring out [TS]

00:20:04   here they're just playing it with our [TS]

00:20:06   planet which is kind of I think kind of [TS]

00:20:08   interesting although you can I mean like [TS]

00:20:09   I figured out what the plot twist was [TS]

00:20:11   about how about who one of the alien [TS]

00:20:13   races was a very early hon I was like oh [TS]

00:20:16   well that's what the answer is this is [TS]

00:20:17   what's happening here but you know and [TS]

00:20:20   can Reardon is just a little bit too [TS]

00:20:22   much of a Johnny square job for me I [TS]

00:20:23   feel like I'm not sure I felt like he [TS]

00:20:25   had any depth is sort of good at [TS]

00:20:26   everything [TS]

00:20:27   and you know everybody loves him and you [TS]

00:20:31   know it's like I like a hero but he's [TS]

00:20:32   like the perfect amazing superhero guy [TS]

00:20:36   forgive me for bringing bringing them up [TS]

00:20:38   in this context Jason but it's out of [TS]

00:20:41   the fence to charles to charles or his [TS]

00:20:43   book but this is this feels to me like [TS]

00:20:46   the kind of novel a good example of a [TS]

00:20:49   good and well written example kind of [TS]

00:20:51   novel the said puppies want to promote [TS]

00:20:54   it's better than some of the stuff that [TS]

00:20:56   wound up on the hugo bout thanks that [TS]

00:20:58   puppy's rabbit puppies [TS]

00:20:59   this is much better than most of the [TS]

00:21:01   stuff that they tried to push but it's [TS]

00:21:03   that same sort of spirit [TS]

00:21:06   yeah well I mean it is a it although [TS]

00:21:08   it's funny because I i get the sense [TS]

00:21:09   like beam and militaries SF has [TS]

00:21:12   definitely a more conservative kind of [TS]

00:21:15   tint to it and that's fine but when i [TS]

00:21:19   read trial by fire I think there's some [TS]

00:21:21   really interesting kind of subversive [TS]

00:21:22   things in it i mean you could read trial [TS]

00:21:24   by fire as being about because it is it [TS]

00:21:27   is more advanced people who have their [TS]

00:21:29   own politics coming to a less advanced [TS]

00:21:31   planet and stomping on it in order to [TS]

00:21:34   it's very hard for me not to look at [TS]

00:21:37   this and say I think he's actually [TS]

00:21:38   making parallels to imperialism on earth [TS]

00:21:42   and an advanced and rich countries [TS]

00:21:46   fighting proxy wars in poor countries [TS]

00:21:48   except in this case we have to look at [TS]

00:21:51   earth as the poor country which kind of [TS]

00:21:52   puts you in the place of all the people [TS]

00:21:55   being stomped on by rich countries in it [TS]

00:21:58   you know in our in our actual world so I [TS]

00:22:00   actually find found at many moments I [TS]

00:22:03   was like this is kind of subversive I [TS]

00:22:05   wonder if people who love military SF [TS]

00:22:07   who might be a little bit more [TS]

00:22:08   conservative are going to read that and [TS]

00:22:12   not like it or let it go or what because [TS]

00:22:14   it was actually doesn't it does not seem [TS]

00:22:16   like proselytizing and like a super [TS]

00:22:19   conservative piece of politics in this [TS]

00:22:23   book at all it to me I the way I read it [TS]

00:22:25   was it was much more sneaky than that [TS]

00:22:28   nuance yeah yeah yeah i mean that is one [TS]

00:22:31   of the things I really did enjoy about [TS]

00:22:32   this book is again and does attempt to [TS]

00:22:35   kind of explore the really messy [TS]

00:22:37   political and [TS]

00:22:39   and in some cases physical elements of [TS]

00:22:42   actually invading another country while [TS]

00:22:45   also trying desperately to argue [TS]

00:22:48   philosophically that it's not an [TS]

00:22:49   invasion which is an imperialist idea [TS]

00:22:53   that yeah we're not actually invading [TS]

00:22:54   you were showing up and we're here to [TS]

00:22:57   help [TS]

00:22:57   we're here to help yeah right these are [TS]

00:22:59   just military advisers we set them right [TS]

00:23:02   we'll do everything we can to kind of [TS]

00:23:05   avoid admitting that what's happening is [TS]

00:23:07   an invasion and there are a couple [TS]

00:23:08   conversations with with Cain and one of [TS]

00:23:13   the aliens the name of which I've [TS]

00:23:14   forgotten but one of the bug monkey [TS]

00:23:16   creatures where he within the buggy [TS]

00:23:20   creatures basically saying like no no [TS]

00:23:21   we're not invading you've completely [TS]

00:23:22   misinterpreted what's happening and [TS]

00:23:23   we're all going [TS]

00:23:24   no he's interpreted exactly what's [TS]

00:23:27   happening you have propped up [TS]

00:23:28   hey they koo you know and and supported [TS]

00:23:32   this guy and it's an invasion that's [TS]

00:23:34   what exactly is this happened here for [TS]

00:23:37   reasons that are never fully review at [TS]

00:23:38   least not up to that point or not [TS]

00:23:40   revealed to everybody else so like [TS]

00:23:42   humanity doesn't really know what the [TS]

00:23:43   hell is going on and you expect them to [TS]

00:23:45   just kind of like oh we're just be fine [TS]

00:23:47   with this is all gonna be good we're [TS]

00:23:48   just gonna have tea and crumpets later [TS]

00:23:50   on it'll be great i love those elements [TS]

00:23:53   although I will admit that i agree with [TS]

00:23:56   you Jason that some of the descriptions [TS]

00:23:58   stuff felt a little as you know Bob wish [TS]

00:24:01   to me haha kind of three characters [TS]

00:24:03   describing details and maybe that is an [TS]

00:24:06   audience specific thing I don't know but [TS]

00:24:09   that's something that I personally don't [TS]

00:24:11   like them either a couple moments in the [TS]

00:24:13   book where I was like okay you don't [TS]

00:24:15   need to explain the plan to me [TS]

00:24:16   just do it right well the John [TS]

00:24:18   birmingham stuff which I again is one of [TS]

00:24:20   my more recent exposures to some [TS]

00:24:22   military SF is similar in that way and [TS]

00:24:24   we're always like wow I really love it [TS]

00:24:26   when you're talking about what a 1940's [TS]

00:24:27   person would react how they would react [TS]

00:24:29   to an ipad but then when you detail like [TS]

00:24:32   you know the way that the turbines are [TS]

00:24:34   used on these 20 you know 2020 era jet [TS]

00:24:37   fighters I just my eyes glaze over and I [TS]

00:24:40   think maybe that's just it's part of the [TS]

00:24:42   package is that you know that people [TS]

00:24:44   like affect the tom clancy right yeah [TS]

00:24:46   yeah yeahs Houston i used to thumb pass [TS]

00:24:49   those two and then when i read time [TS]

00:24:50   playing yeah okay I get it [TS]

00:24:53   invitation it's certainly to some degree [TS]

00:24:56   it's an audience thing and I think that [TS]

00:24:59   that's partly why but sometimes I I [TS]

00:25:02   bounced hard off of this book I overall [TS]

00:25:04   enjoy that was a lot of fun [TS]

00:25:06   that's not necessarily we look for when [TS]

00:25:08   it comes to like I'm nominating a novel [TS]

00:25:10   I don't look just strictly for fun I [TS]

00:25:12   look for a little more than that but at [TS]

00:25:15   the same time that mean there were there [TS]

00:25:17   moments are as like this book could be [TS]

00:25:18   like 200 pages shorter [TS]

00:25:20   oh yeah that is for sure if it felt it [TS]

00:25:23   felt very long at points that it was [TS]

00:25:25   just again we're doing because I felt [TS]

00:25:27   like we were on the wheel of like let's [TS]

00:25:28   go to all the characters and let's see [TS]

00:25:30   them again and let's see them again that [TS]

00:25:31   was like there was there were way too [TS]

00:25:32   many spins at the wheel where I felt [TS]

00:25:34   like are we wait you know we're waiting [TS]

00:25:36   for that plan to go into it into action [TS]

00:25:38   and we're still waiting and we're still [TS]

00:25:40   waiting and Scott mentioned that earlier [TS]

00:25:42   it it's too long i did the other [TS]

00:25:44   subversive thing by the way the in here [TS]

00:25:46   is that the the only people on earth who [TS]

00:25:48   are really collaborating with the [TS]

00:25:50   invaders or corporations I thought that [TS]

00:25:51   was also an interesting thing that he [TS]

00:25:53   yeah if you want to read it that way [TS]

00:25:55   that he's saying the government's are [TS]

00:25:57   trying to protect the Earth and the [TS]

00:25:58   corporation's just turn tail because [TS]

00:25:59   they figure they can become more [TS]

00:26:01   profitable deal with the aliens that's [TS]

00:26:03   interesting [TS]

00:26:04   yeah it that felt less hammering me in [TS]

00:26:08   the head then another book that's on our [TS]

00:26:10   list that was talking about political [TS]

00:26:12   stuff that fog I was being smacked in [TS]

00:26:15   the face a lot [TS]

00:26:16   this one didn't do that despite the fact [TS]

00:26:18   that it should have given that it's very [TS]

00:26:21   blatant like corporations involved like [TS]

00:26:24   there's evil they are they're not really [TS]

00:26:26   good people and all ultimately wants [TS]

00:26:28   their bank loan armies yeah but I never [TS]

00:26:31   felt like I was being like like he was [TS]

00:26:33   bashing a political point into my head I [TS]

00:26:35   just felt like no we're just dealing [TS]

00:26:36   with very unsavory characters yeah and [TS]

00:26:39   you know at the same time they they [TS]

00:26:41   sometimes will make arguments that and [TS]

00:26:43   trying to support and prop up their own [TS]

00:26:45   ideas like completely oblivious to the [TS]

00:26:47   fact that you know they're insane but [TS]

00:26:51   you know I don't know it it's fun book i [TS]

00:26:54   enjoyed it just a little long and needs [TS]

00:26:56   to be cut [TS]

00:26:57   i I didn't think it was too long I mean [TS]

00:26:58   I went through it like him about two [TS]

00:27:01   days and now I enjoyed it so I'm the [TS]

00:27:05   emerging here on this [TS]

00:27:06   I think the positive margin [TS]

00:27:10   yeah something like that anymore about [TS]

00:27:13   trial by fire [TS]

00:27:14   I you know I felt that last last time we [TS]

00:27:16   did this we talked about about game and [TS]

00:27:19   I felt like we came across maybe a [TS]

00:27:22   little more negatively than intended you [TS]

00:27:24   know Scott didn't like it [TS]

00:27:25   we will be clear about that I I'd love [TS]

00:27:28   it but I you know but I thought it was [TS]

00:27:32   okay [TS]

00:27:32   I you know I i didn't i didn't love it [TS]

00:27:35   parts of it i liked i felt like the [TS]

00:27:37   world is really interesting and a end [TS]

00:27:41   I've read alien invasion novels that I [TS]

00:27:44   liked better and you know again this [TS]

00:27:47   this book was not as much about [TS]

00:27:49   exploring the world until like the last [TS]

00:27:50   couple of chapters as it was about lots [TS]

00:27:54   of military units fighting and that read [TS]

00:27:56   less interesting to me then that even [TS]

00:27:58   the last book was his sponsor break time [TS]

00:28:01   again i want to tell you about mail [TS]

00:28:02   route i use mail route has been using [TS]

00:28:03   her out for a couple of years mail route [TS]

00:28:05   is a service that sits between your mail [TS]

00:28:07   server and the big bad internet and what [TS]

00:28:09   it does is it filters out spam viruses [TS]

00:28:11   and bounced emails not only do you not [TS]

00:28:13   see them they don't get to your server [TS]

00:28:15   they stay away from your server if you [TS]

00:28:18   get a lot of spam if you're running [TS]

00:28:19   around mail server it can actually slow [TS]

00:28:21   down your server because you're getting [TS]

00:28:23   in all of this extra junk mail some [TS]

00:28:25   spammer somewhere is feeding mail at [TS]

00:28:27   your server this happen to me not too [TS]

00:28:29   long ago and then when mail route gets [TS]

00:28:32   in the way you know what that stuff goes [TS]

00:28:33   away mail route takes the punishment [TS]

00:28:35   they take that stuff in they take the [TS]

00:28:37   good stuff and pass it on to your mail [TS]

00:28:40   server and then they keep the bad stuff [TS]

00:28:42   and if there's something in there that [TS]

00:28:44   turns out it isn't bad then mail route [TS]

00:28:46   will send you a little note saying [TS]

00:28:47   here's all the stuff that i found that i [TS]

00:28:50   think is bad [TS]

00:28:51   1-click in that email and that mail is [TS]

00:28:54   delivered and that person is whitelisted [TS]

00:28:56   and they'll never be filtered out again [TS]

00:28:57   it doesn't happen that often but when it [TS]

00:28:59   does it's a really easy feature you [TS]

00:29:01   don't have to set up any hardware you [TS]

00:29:03   have to set up any software all that [TS]

00:29:05   happens in the cloud mail route does the [TS]

00:29:07   work there and delivers clean mail to [TS]

00:29:09   your inbox large organizations like [TS]

00:29:11   universities and corporations rely on [TS]

00:29:13   mail route it's easy to use from the [TS]

00:29:15   perspective of being a desktop user and [TS]

00:29:16   if you're an email admin RIT pro they [TS]

00:29:18   built tools with you in mind there's an [TS]

00:29:20   a [TS]

00:29:20   p i4 account management support for ldap [TS]

00:29:22   an active directory TLS male bagging [TS]

00:29:25   outbound relay everything you'd want [TS]

00:29:27   from people who handle your mail [TS]

00:29:28   there's a risk-free trial you don't even [TS]

00:29:30   have to put a credit card down you sign [TS]

00:29:31   up point the MX record of your domain at [TS]

00:29:34   mail route so that they can take the [TS]

00:29:35   punishment for you your mailbox and [TS]

00:29:37   hardware completely protected because [TS]

00:29:39   it's a risk-free trial there's no reason [TS]

00:29:41   not to try it [TS]

00:29:42   everybody listens to the incomparable [TS]

00:29:44   can receive ten percent off of a [TS]

00:29:45   lifetime of your account go to mail [TS]

00:29:47   route dotnet / smell right now that's [TS]

00:29:50   mail route dotnet / smell and thank you [TS]

00:29:53   to my route for sponsoring the [TS]

00:29:54   incomparable alright let's move on how [TS]

00:29:57   about the three-body problem this is a [TS]

00:29:58   Chinese novel translated into english by [TS]

00:30:03   award winner winner can lu it wildly [TS]

00:30:09   popular in china and and then brought [TS]

00:30:12   over to the english-speaking world in [TS]

00:30:14   this translation it was a lot a lot of [TS]

00:30:17   stuff I did not expect the the opens [TS]

00:30:19   with the Cultural Revolution which is [TS]

00:30:21   probably a period of history that we in [TS]

00:30:24   America do not understand at all or know [TS]

00:30:26   anything about so that was a wonderful [TS]

00:30:28   thing [TS]

00:30:28   yeah and then just the second half of [TS]

00:30:31   the novel where you get into the virtual [TS]

00:30:34   reality in the the the computer game [TS]

00:30:38   I mean there's just some scenes that are [TS]

00:30:39   just jaw-dropping Lee amazing like a [TS]

00:30:42   computer meat out of living beat the [TS]

00:30:45   whole yes [TS]

00:30:46   yeah you know assembling in themselves [TS]

00:30:48   and in the you know I don't know how [TS]

00:30:51   exciting a game this would be because it [TS]

00:30:53   just seemed to be undergoing not much [TS]

00:30:57   action but just some of the stuff that [TS]

00:31:00   they depict in this book is amazing and [TS]

00:31:02   then the third part which is when we get [TS]

00:31:04   into what's going on behind the scenes a [TS]

00:31:08   lot of exposition but again a really [TS]

00:31:10   interesting story and I'm look I'm I [TS]

00:31:12   like can't wait for the second book to [TS]

00:31:14   come out it came across from me as it as [TS]

00:31:17   a weird fusion of Gregory Benford and [TS]

00:31:21   isaac asimov I mean I am I felt a little [TS]

00:31:25   bit like Timescape but the characters [TS]

00:31:27   weren't quite as they're much more as a [TS]

00:31:30   movie and much more ideas in the light [TS]

00:31:32   the in science and philosophy the game [TS]

00:31:36   and everything because revolution must [TS]

00:31:38   warn you about the cultural revolution [TS]

00:31:39   forwarding this book I knew from the [TS]

00:31:41   movie the red violin [TS]

00:31:42   don't judge me ah so that's why did you [TS]

00:31:46   heard a little bit i'll so but yeah I [TS]

00:31:51   mean the characters weren't there by [TS]

00:31:52   just say it's like the working out [TS]

00:31:55   working out of everything was and this [TS]

00:31:57   is route some real beauty and can look I [TS]

00:32:00   mean can lose translation is [TS]

00:32:03   pitch-perfect this is like he should he [TS]

00:32:07   should be translating more Chinese [TS]

00:32:08   novels clearly if this if this is what [TS]

00:32:11   he can do given a given full given full [TS]

00:32:13   length stuff to work out the keys [TS]

00:32:15   translating sequel though which is kind [TS]

00:32:17   of disappointing now he's doing the [TS]

00:32:18   third and that was only because he was [TS]

00:32:20   working on his own novel that's alright [TS]

00:32:22   just get timed out that way [TS]

00:32:24   yeah and and this does didn't feel like [TS]

00:32:27   his own now I've ride up [TS]

00:32:29   I've read his I've right out of the [TS]

00:32:31   Great Sea Kings in feel like grace the [TS]

00:32:32   King so it's not like he wrote we wrote [TS]

00:32:34   the book thank God well but but he [TS]

00:32:37   clearly ready rendered Oh lose pros into [TS]

00:32:41   very very good English and it [TS]

00:32:44   I mean I i could look it may be up with [TS]

00:32:49   some very apparent to me that this is [TS]

00:32:50   the list came out 1980 you would [TS]

00:32:52   probably sweep all the words without [TS]

00:32:54   question now I think I want more little [TS]

00:32:57   more from from characters and I got [TS]

00:32:59   that's an interesting thing to say Paul [TS]

00:33:02   M [TS]

00:33:05   I didn't have an issue with the [TS]

00:33:08   characters i thought i thought the [TS]

00:33:09   characters were fine i mean sometimes it [TS]

00:33:11   felt a little thin but I think that's [TS]

00:33:13   because it's dealing with so much [TS]

00:33:14   high-concept elements but overall I [TS]

00:33:18   really love this and i love that [TS]

00:33:20   included footnotes to explain stuff that [TS]

00:33:22   I know nothing about because they didn't [TS]

00:33:24   teach anything about the cultural [TS]

00:33:25   revolution in high school they may have [TS]

00:33:27   mentioned it but they certainly didn't [TS]

00:33:29   teach it so when things are happening [TS]

00:33:31   and there are references to things that [TS]

00:33:32   I know nothing about it was really nice [TS]

00:33:34   to have the context available [TS]

00:33:36   I also really love that this book messed [TS]

00:33:38   with narrative style a lot it jumps [TS]

00:33:42   between various kinds of things [TS]

00:33:43   throughout the book huh [TS]

00:33:45   sometimes even John residents itself [TS]

00:33:47   which I really like [TS]

00:33:50   mostly because that's the kind of stuff [TS]

00:33:52   that really appeals to me a lot when it [TS]

00:33:54   comes on her novels is anything that's [TS]

00:33:55   kind of messing with the traditions as [TS]

00:33:58   it were [TS]

00:33:59   now granted this is coming out of China [TS]

00:34:01   so I don't know what the literary [TS]

00:34:02   traditions in China are which means i [TS]

00:34:06   don't understand what from a literary [TS]

00:34:08   perspective it may be playing against or [TS]

00:34:10   with so I'm interpreting that from a [TS]

00:34:13   completely American perspective which [TS]

00:34:14   could be totally wrong but all that I [TS]

00:34:18   found really enjoyable I love the [TS]

00:34:19   concept i found it very bewildering the [TS]

00:34:23   beginning because it's so embedded in [TS]

00:34:25   the cultural revolution and I'm thought [TS]

00:34:27   i was reading science fiction novel and [TS]

00:34:29   what was going on but once it started to [TS]

00:34:31   really clarify what was happening it [TS]

00:34:33   made a lot of sense and I just overall I [TS]

00:34:36   think it's probably one of the strongest [TS]

00:34:37   novels of the lot and is I think Paul [TS]

00:34:41   you may be kind of right that it's a [TS]

00:34:43   maybe if this was came earlier it may [TS]

00:34:45   have been more of a sweeping kind of [TS]

00:34:47   ordeal however I i would not be [TS]

00:34:49   surprised if this picked up one of the [TS]

00:34:51   major SF awards not would be surprised [TS]

00:34:53   either idea i've been especially because [TS]

00:34:56   it's because because it is giving us a [TS]

00:34:59   window into chinese science fiction and [TS]

00:35:01   that alone is a good thing above the [TS]

00:35:04   merits of the book itself Scott what [TS]

00:35:06   what's your take on the three-body [TS]

00:35:07   problem I i enjoyed it i like [TS]

00:35:12   I like that it is a non-western book so [TS]

00:35:15   this is I think probably the first [TS]

00:35:17   Chinese science fiction book I've ever [TS]

00:35:19   read [TS]

00:35:20   and so it was interesting to have a very [TS]

00:35:23   different perspective on kind of a [TS]

00:35:26   sci-fi tropes so it was a fascinating [TS]

00:35:29   from that perspective and I like books [TS]

00:35:31   that make me feel a little alien to the [TS]

00:35:37   book that makes any sense so it's from [TS]

00:35:39   such a different cultural perspective [TS]

00:35:40   that was you you know different than my [TS]

00:35:44   own so I feel like the other as I'm [TS]

00:35:48   reading it which is always an [TS]

00:35:49   interesting experience and i liked it i [TS]

00:35:52   mean i didn't think you know compared to [TS]

00:35:54   American science fiction is a little [TS]

00:35:56   clunky but that's just a personal [TS]

00:36:00   opinion I I thought was very good and I [TS]

00:36:03   think it deserved to be nominated i'm [TS]

00:36:04   not sure if it's going to win who knows [TS]

00:36:05   but I like thumbs up for me [TS]

00:36:09   Scott is the one that you said it's it's [TS]

00:36:11   barely science fiction until the end [TS]

00:36:13   yes if thats remember your comment as i [TS]

00:36:17   was reading about the cultural [TS]

00:36:18   revolution and thinking huh [TS]

00:36:19   Scott I see what Scott was saying now [TS]

00:36:21   although i really like the stuff about [TS]

00:36:23   the cultural revolution because I too [TS]

00:36:25   had no no idea and and so that was fun [TS]

00:36:28   like like like several of you have said [TS]

00:36:30   it was it was it's fun to see something [TS]

00:36:32   in it from a different cultures [TS]

00:36:33   perspective and about things that we [TS]

00:36:35   don't get you know taught here not [TS]

00:36:38   understanding just the level of violence [TS]

00:36:41   and upheaval that happened and then [TS]

00:36:44   watching this one character kind of end [TS]

00:36:46   up in a very strange place because of [TS]

00:36:49   what happens to her and her father [TS]

00:36:51   during the Cultural Revolution I thought [TS]

00:36:53   that was all really interesting and I [TS]

00:36:56   kept wondering okay what where is this [TS]

00:36:58   going [TS]

00:36:59   and then we get to the we get to the but [TS]

00:37:02   some there's some stuff in here that's [TS]

00:37:03   just really bizarre the I felt I felt [TS]

00:37:06   almost like like Stephen King kind of [TS]

00:37:10   things there Dean Koons kind of things [TS]

00:37:13   where they where the person is almost [TS]

00:37:15   driven the scientist is driven almost [TS]

00:37:16   mad by the fact that suddenly there's a [TS]

00:37:19   account down happening in his vision [TS]

00:37:22   wherever he looks [TS]

00:37:23   you're such a bizarre kind of like how [TS]

00:37:26   could that exists and must be going [TS]

00:37:28   crazy but he sees it everywhere and I [TS]

00:37:30   just thought like wow I'm now it's [TS]

00:37:32   almost like i'm reading a horror novel [TS]

00:37:34   here and I don't know how this is gonna [TS]

00:37:37   get paid off and you know what [TS]

00:37:38   in the end it is explained which I never [TS]

00:37:41   believed there would be an explanation [TS]

00:37:43   for that and it was and it is actually [TS]

00:37:45   explain the virtual reality stuff I [TS]

00:37:47   think saying that it would not make a [TS]

00:37:49   particularly entertaining game is [TS]

00:37:51   probably a strong point I felt like it [TS]

00:37:54   was really surreal and interesting i [TS]

00:37:57   have to admit that i found the the [TS]

00:37:59   breaks between those scenes where we [TS]

00:38:01   would go back to that the chain-smoking [TS]

00:38:03   cop who wisecracks but is it is working [TS]

00:38:06   class but is actually very wise and [TS]

00:38:09   provides a sort of grounding for the for [TS]

00:38:12   the for the for the scientists i really [TS]

00:38:14   love that character i started hating him [TS]

00:38:16   and then I end up loving him because he [TS]

00:38:18   was such a change of pace from the [TS]

00:38:20   temples and pyramids and things that are [TS]

00:38:22   happening in the in the virtual reality [TS]

00:38:24   so I I yeah there were moments where I [TS]

00:38:28   thought this is the most bizarre thing [TS]

00:38:29   I've ever read and and think that the [TS]

00:38:32   characters are always very well drawn [TS]

00:38:33   I'm also fascinated by the fact that it [TS]

00:38:36   the main character in this book is [TS]

00:38:37   essentially somebody who decides that [TS]

00:38:39   that that what's the line and [TS]

00:38:42   ghostbusters uh he thought that humanity [TS]

00:38:45   was too sick to survive and then they [TS]

00:38:47   look around the the jail cell and say [TS]

00:38:49   well maybe he that that's that's who the [TS]

00:38:52   character is in this book she thinks I i [TS]

00:38:54   wrote down the line I've lost hope in [TS]

00:38:56   the human race after what I've seen [TS]

00:38:57   human society is incapable of [TS]

00:38:59   self-improvement and we need the [TS]

00:39:01   intervention of an outside force so you [TS]

00:39:03   talk about alien invasions and things [TS]

00:39:05   like that you know in this book that's [TS]

00:39:08   sort of where we end up as somebody who [TS]

00:39:09   feels like they need that you know they [TS]

00:39:12   want to they're building a movement to [TS]

00:39:14   give up on humanity which is just that's [TS]

00:39:18   a big idea and its really interesting [TS]

00:39:20   and then at the end I go what this is [TS]

00:39:23   the start of the series and you know I [TS]

00:39:25   had that much too but i liked it i i i [TS]

00:39:28   didn't love it i think i like they're [TS]

00:39:32   there are definitely at least a couple [TS]

00:39:33   books on this list that i like better [TS]

00:39:35   but but it's [TS]

00:39:37   so different and that goes for a lot I [TS]

00:39:39   mean it's different and novel and weird [TS]

00:39:41   and has some really huge ideas which is [TS]

00:39:44   sort of what I was thinking when when [TS]

00:39:46   when there is a concept of if this had [TS]

00:39:49   been written 20 or 30 or 40 years ago [TS]

00:39:51   like there was a period in sci-fi where [TS]

00:39:53   I felt like it was all about big ideas [TS]

00:39:55   and the characters were kind of not that [TS]

00:39:57   important and this book isn't quite as [TS]

00:40:00   Extreme as that but it's kinda like that [TS]

00:40:02   where the ideas are huge and the [TS]

00:40:03   characters are around i used to be i [TS]

00:40:06   used to be into that source is just like [TS]

00:40:08   one day with Rama I can't tell you much [TS]

00:40:10   about all about the character I could [TS]

00:40:11   tell you all about that damn spaceship [TS]

00:40:13   characters like if I can't do anything [TS]

00:40:16   about surprises there were characters i [TS]

00:40:18   guess people don't wander around that [TS]

00:40:20   spaceship they had the flying thing [TS]

00:40:22   that's all I remember about what the [TS]

00:40:24   character amber but the spaceship on my [TS]

00:40:26   god this patient and this book this [TS]

00:40:28   novel writing me of that so the era of [TS]

00:40:30   science picked out by agree not quite [TS]

00:40:32   not quite as Extreme but that sort of [TS]

00:40:34   error [TS]

00:40:34   yeah sounds like everybody everybody [TS]

00:40:37   liked it although a you know we're all [TS]

00:40:39   we are are all Outsiders in a way [TS]

00:40:41   looking at this and and but you know I [TS]

00:40:43   can i love the challenge of that this is [TS]

00:40:45   not something like you've read before I [TS]

00:40:47   think that's really exciting to get a [TS]

00:40:49   book that you think also important to [TS]

00:40:51   give us breath and exposed to other [TS]

00:40:53   stuff books was just world SMS Sean can [TS]

00:40:55   attest yeah well the author grew up [TS]

00:40:58   reading I I'm much i'm not clear whether [TS]

00:41:00   reading in English or reading and [TS]

00:41:02   translation but grew up reading Western [TS]

00:41:03   science fiction as well as stuff in [TS]

00:41:05   China and I think that's really [TS]

00:41:07   interesting where that person now that [TS]

00:41:09   author has kind of internalize that and [TS]

00:41:11   then spun it back out into their own [TS]

00:41:14   thing so it's it's kind of cool that [TS]

00:41:16   then it comes back to us [TS]

00:41:18   I really hope this novel does really [TS]

00:41:20   well and i'm guessing from a sales [TS]

00:41:22   perspective is has because this is kind [TS]

00:41:24   of with his moments where think they put [TS]

00:41:26   a lot of money to translate this book [TS]

00:41:28   right and if it bombed the chances that [TS]

00:41:31   we would get another Chinese science [TS]

00:41:33   fiction novel translated anytime soon [TS]

00:41:35   would be pretty slim and there's so much [TS]

00:41:37   stuff being written in China right now [TS]

00:41:39   that's not in english and you gotta pay [TS]

00:41:41   a translator to get it you can't just [TS]

00:41:43   like have like it's not like fansubs for [TS]

00:41:46   japanese anime hey [TS]

00:41:47   nobody's gonna translate paste or novel [TS]

00:41:50   into google translate [TS]

00:41:51   no no he mean he's obviously done well [TS]

00:41:56   enough so that tour has done to the two [TS]

00:41:59   other books in the trilogy but if you [TS]

00:42:01   look on amazon and barnes and nobles you [TS]

00:42:03   can get electronic book editions of many [TS]

00:42:06   of his other books at this point maybe [TS]

00:42:08   about a dozen i think i'm not sure how [TS]

00:42:11   well as translated but yea yea there up [TS]

00:42:13   there up for sale [TS]

00:42:15   well I would be that sounds really [TS]

00:42:17   sketchy putting out they were all were [TS]

00:42:19   on sale like the first week they went up [TS]

00:42:21   so I picked them all up so I had some [TS]

00:42:23   point I'll get 1 i'll let you know how [TS]

00:42:24   they are but they're you let me know if [TS]

00:42:26   they sound like Google Translate hope [TS]

00:42:29   not i'm also hoping they were legally [TS]

00:42:32   translated and easy ass you know [TS]

00:42:35   benefiting to that would be my concerns [TS]

00:42:37   because I know there's been a couple [TS]

00:42:38   instances have pirated pirate black box [TS]

00:42:42   yeah yeah yeah and I know in in China [TS]

00:42:45   there there's a-there come some infamous [TS]

00:42:47   harry potter ripoffs that exists in [TS]

00:42:50   China which is kind of funny but you can [TS]

00:42:53   google it it's fun too [TS]

00:42:54   let's take a break let me tell you about [TS]

00:42:56   one of our sponsors it's lootcrate would [TS]

00:42:58   you classify yourself as a geek gamer [TS]

00:42:59   pop-culture nerd and loot crate is the [TS]

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00:43:12   make sure to head to loot crate dot-com [TS]

00:43:15   / smell and the code smell to save three [TS]

00:43:17   dollars on any new subscription every [TS]

00:43:20   month lootcrate there's a different [TS]

00:43:21   theme all the items in the box that you [TS]

00:43:23   receive our curated around that theme [TS]

00:43:24   inspired by things like classic movies [TS]

00:43:26   and video game releases pop-culture [TS]

00:43:28   franchises previous credits included [TS]

00:43:30   items from Star Wars Marvel the walking [TS]

00:43:32   dead legend of zelda many more i have a [TS]

00:43:35   Power Rangers t-shirt now this year so [TS]

00:43:38   far they've been creates featuring [TS]

00:43:39   exclusive items from Star Wars Voltron [TS]

00:43:41   epic apparel retro gaming inspired [TS]

00:43:43   mashup figures create all about strategy [TS]

00:43:45   games create all about covert operations [TS]

00:43:47   there's more awesomeness to come to [TS]

00:43:49   create as a friend who knows what you [TS]

00:43:50   love and surprises you with awesome [TS]

00:43:52   presence every month until the [TS]

00:43:54   nineteenth of any given month at nine [TS]

00:43:55   p.m. pacific time to subscribe and then [TS]

00:43:57   you'll receive that months create once [TS]

00:43:59   the cutoff happens it's over [TS]

00:44:01   you'll never see that crate so go to [TS]

00:44:03   loot crate dot-com / now enter code [TS]

00:44:05   smell and you'll save three dollars on [TS]

00:44:07   your new subscription today thank you to [TS]

00:44:08   loot crate for sponsoring the [TS]

00:44:10   uncomfortable [TS]

00:44:11   alright let's move on to coming home by [TS]

00:44:13   jack mcdevitt haha ok so so so let me [TS]

00:44:17   let me tell you seriously let me tell [TS]

00:44:19   you something about jack mcdevitt I've [TS]

00:44:21   read I've read almost every jack [TS]

00:44:22   mcdevitt novel mom i love that the [TS]

00:44:26   character is inexplicably eat sandwiches [TS]

00:44:28   at various points throughout the books i [TS]

00:44:30   think Jack never really love sin which [TS]

00:44:31   is I I once you once once you know once [TS]

00:44:35   you look for the munching on a sandwich [TS]

00:44:36   you can't not see it in every book he [TS]

00:44:39   writes I like the the persona Hutchins [TS]

00:44:42   books I I generally like like these [TS]

00:44:45   books the Alex Benedict books they're [TS]

00:44:47   fun adventure ii Indiana Jones the kind [TS]

00:44:50   of thing there's always somebody who's [TS]

00:44:52   there's always a spaceship accident and [TS]

00:44:54   there's somebody who is revealed to be [TS]

00:44:56   the villain who hold somebody at [TS]

00:44:57   gunpoint and they're almost like I mean [TS]

00:44:59   the they're off almost a form like romeo [TS]

00:45:03   yeah there is a formula it's adventurous [TS]

00:45:06   his world building is interesting and [TS]

00:45:08   they're fun and I really enjoyed reading [TS]

00:45:10   those books so now i see that coming [TS]

00:45:12   home [TS]

00:45:13   the latest Alex Benedict book has been [TS]

00:45:15   nominated for a nebula lord I so I get [TS]

00:45:18   to read for this podcast I didn't even [TS]

00:45:20   know it was out so I go and I read it [TS]

00:45:22   and I think to myself [TS]

00:45:23   really this is the one you nominate [TS]

00:45:24   because it's I think it's the least [TS]

00:45:26   interesting of any of the books of his [TS]

00:45:28   that i've read so that's my that's my [TS]

00:45:31   take is I actually like this author and [TS]

00:45:32   I like this series and it's comforting [TS]

00:45:35   and it's not great art but i'm not sure [TS]

00:45:37   this one's even like among his best let [TS]

00:45:40   alone art in any way I didn't understand [TS]

00:45:44   why is the series is called the Alex [TS]

00:45:46   Benedict series right in this book he [TS]

00:45:48   hardly appears at all and she chases [TS]

00:45:51   chases the chronicler of the adventures [TS]

00:45:53   of Alex Benedict and so chases the [TS]

00:45:55   narrator chase kolpath is the narrator [TS]

00:45:57   realities can can I ask a question for [TS]

00:45:59   those that have read all the other books [TS]

00:46:01   it is this just like clive cussler Dirk [TS]

00:46:04   Pitt but in space kind of oh I mean I'll [TS]

00:46:07   be honest and say that I when I picture [TS]

00:46:10   Alex Benedict I sort of [TS]

00:46:12   a pictures at Brannigan [TS]

00:46:17   oh uh in my mind that sort of who i'm [TS]

00:46:21   picturing he's a you know not quite [TS]

00:46:24   dashing hero but yeah I mean that that's [TS]

00:46:27   what these that's what these are is [TS]

00:46:29   faster than light travel adventures to [TS]

00:46:32   in his case he's he's yeah you could say [TS]

00:46:34   that I mean he's supposed to be kind of [TS]

00:46:36   an Indiana Jones because he's this [TS]

00:46:37   archaeologist who is finding but he [TS]

00:46:39   finds relics and sells them instead of [TS]

00:46:41   like turning them into the museum so [TS]

00:46:43   he's got that kind of questionable you [TS]

00:46:45   know is he really on the side of good or [TS]

00:46:47   not or is he just a mercenary but you [TS]

00:46:51   know that you place them on on [TS]

00:46:52   interesting situations and it can be [TS]

00:46:54   very it can be very interesting but yeah [TS]

00:46:56   alex is sidelined for a lot of this and [TS]

00:46:59   it's just yeah it was it's not that [TS]

00:47:01   interesting [TS]

00:47:01   it's not that interesting book and I'm [TS]

00:47:03   saying that is somebody who likes jack [TS]

00:47:05   mcdevitt so I'm a little baffled for by [TS]

00:47:07   why this is getting honors I am really [TS]

00:47:10   baffled that you just said that the [TS]

00:47:12   characters in this book is kinda like [TS]

00:47:14   Indiana Jones which is possibly the most [TS]

00:47:17   false statement of my occupied by [TS]

00:47:20   occupation right i mean literally [TS]

00:47:22   geologist he is an archaeologist he [TS]

00:47:24   looks for relics that's like saying like [TS]

00:47:27   you know [TS]

00:47:27   ER doctors are just like Grey's Anatomy [TS]

00:47:29   yeah you on that they are did their [TS]

00:47:34   doctors doctors the doctors that's not [TS]

00:47:38   it's just well no I really didn't like [TS]

00:47:40   this book if it's unclear what yet and [TS]

00:47:44   it feels it feels a little bit like this [TS]

00:47:45   is the i think one of the problems I [TS]

00:47:47   have with it is i feel like this is the [TS]

00:47:48   resolution of a plot arc for him which [TS]

00:47:50   is at long last he's been with his his [TS]

00:47:53   missing uncle has been there for all [TS]

00:47:55   this time of like Oh his uncle died as [TS]

00:47:57   uncle disappeared in this thing and then [TS]

00:47:59   in the last book I didn't first book he [TS]

00:48:01   disappears [TS]

00:48:01   yeah that's right yeah and so so you end [TS]

00:48:04   up with this [TS]

00:48:05   oh and then they figure out what's [TS]

00:48:06   happening and then there's a ghost ship [TS]

00:48:08   and then this one they like all right I [TS]

00:48:09   think we can solve it and they bring him [TS]

00:48:11   back but it it sort of feels like more [TS]

00:48:14   of a capstone to a story arc then a [TS]

00:48:16   story and you know what I love about [TS]

00:48:19   these books as they end up in really [TS]

00:48:21   weird you know they end up in really [TS]

00:48:23   weird planets somewhere and [TS]

00:48:25   some alien you know or lost human [TS]

00:48:27   culture and and i find that kind of [TS]

00:48:29   fascinating and hear what the one thing [TS]

00:48:31   that I would say is really interesting [TS]

00:48:33   about this book as opposed to his other [TS]

00:48:34   books is that he shied away from the [TS]

00:48:36   earth and here the earth is the Lost [TS]

00:48:39   Planet they go to earth and and and the [TS]

00:48:41   most thing that will stick with me from [TS]

00:48:43   these books is the fact that these [TS]

00:48:46   people in the far future have [TS]

00:48:48   essentially no concept of life in in our [TS]

00:48:52   time or even like a thousand years after [TS]

00:48:54   our time that that even though we think [TS]

00:48:57   well met you know now we're never going [TS]

00:48:59   to be ancient history we are our time is [TS]

00:49:01   completely lost to these people and I [TS]

00:49:03   thought that was kind of interesting [TS]

00:49:04   making worth the loss planet but it's [TS]

00:49:06   much less you know you know if there's [TS]

00:49:09   like literally a boat accident this park [TS]

00:49:12   your boat a book quoted quote accident [TS]

00:49:15   it was not it was not an accident very [TS]

00:49:17   yes i was going to say it's very Murder [TS]

00:49:19   She Wrote Scott but I don't want to [TS]

00:49:20   insult Murder She Wrote that's right [TS]

00:49:21   don't belittle mercy no no but his [TS]

00:49:24   partner mystery kind of stuff out at [TS]

00:49:26   that point [TS]

00:49:27   yes they're there is a formula I'm a [TS]

00:49:29   great driver had a bunch of jack [TS]

00:49:31   mcdevitt hours i met jack is very nice [TS]

00:49:33   guy [TS]

00:49:34   this doesn't feel like one of his better [TS]

00:49:36   outspending now be perfectly honest i [TS]

00:49:39   mean i mean i can see the forms i can [TS]

00:49:41   see what he's doing but it's just that [TS]

00:49:44   he's done better than this I know you're [TS]

00:49:45   pretty this Jack why don't why did this [TS]

00:49:48   would get nominate I don't know but I [TS]

00:49:51   mean I I would i have to say i have to [TS]

00:49:53   say this is probably the weakest of the [TS]

00:49:56   nebula nominees for me i'm not saying [TS]

00:49:59   it's a bad book but it's just not it's [TS]

00:50:01   not so does it look I'm yeah [TS]

00:50:03   oh it's a bad but yeah I'm gonna agree [TS]

00:50:07   and I like I said I like Devin read the [TS]

00:50:09   books in this series i think this is the [TS]

00:50:11   weakest of all the nominees [TS]

00:50:13   it's sad because I do like him in [TS]

00:50:14   general of all the of all the books that [TS]

00:50:16   have chosen and I don't think it's just [TS]

00:50:19   me analyze the good under a different [TS]

00:50:21   light because I got nominated because i [TS]

00:50:22   didn't really enjoy it and I i really [TS]

00:50:24   enjoy reading the McDevitt books the [TS]

00:50:27   kind of books i read on vacation [TS]

00:50:28   especially if I'm like on or near a [TS]

00:50:29   beach and I really enjoy them it's like [TS]

00:50:32   it's just fun and it's a fifth fastest [TS]

00:50:35   reading it's an adventure and this one [TS]

00:50:36   was just more like a slug and not [TS]

00:50:37   interesting [TS]

00:50:38   too bad but what do you think fried well [TS]

00:50:41   i mean i think this is at wondering [TS]

00:50:44   whether he's gonna reboot the series but [TS]

00:50:46   the next one was ending the series for [TS]

00:50:48   this night but not the uncles back [TS]

00:50:50   yeah i mean it's it's not like i do [TS]

00:50:53   agree it's not the best book I like his [TS]

00:50:54   books overall i did enjoy a lot of this [TS]

00:50:56   in the whole mystery of where where the [TS]

00:50:59   Apollo Landers in all the stuff that's [TS]

00:51:02   going on I mean all the books it's like [TS]

00:51:04   a fibber mcgee book or a John McDonald [TS]

00:51:07   book I mean this you know they don't we [TS]

00:51:08   start off with a opening chapter which [TS]

00:51:11   you're like will eventually tie into the [TS]

00:51:13   rest and there's always a lot of digging [TS]

00:51:16   in libraries and stuff and travel and [TS]

00:51:19   sandwiches and sandwiches I anyway [TS]

00:51:21   department but no t we should say that [TS]

00:51:24   that he did win the nebula for seeker in [TS]

00:51:26   2005 which is the third book in the alex [TS]

00:51:28   bennett series that was expected that [TS]

00:51:30   was a much better part of this violates [TS]

00:51:33   like half of all of my rules of bad [TS]

00:51:35   novel writing one is involved a prologue [TS]

00:51:38   that references a story that is more [TS]

00:51:40   interesting than the actual novel haha [TS]

00:51:42   heart is this dark age that occurs which [TS]

00:51:45   was like why you tell that story i'm [TS]

00:51:46   like when the earth went to crap that [TS]

00:51:48   sounds so exciting but your it's of [TS]

00:51:50   course told by a lady at the uncle or [TS]

00:51:52   whatever you just tell us that these [TS]

00:51:53   telling this kid he's like hey let's go [TS]

00:51:55   take this to her in the moon base and [TS]

00:51:56   like we'll have sandwiches and talk [TS]

00:51:58   about interesting stuff that happened to [TS]

00:52:00   us and it's like well that sounds much [TS]

00:52:01   more interesting but then we get the [TS]

00:52:02   actual story and about 50 pages in us [TS]

00:52:05   like this is not going very quickly [TS]

00:52:08   about what is the story and so I scroll [TS]

00:52:13   forward you know it's like okay well [TS]

00:52:15   let's let's figure out maybe some crazy [TS]

00:52:16   stuff happens later right like maybe [TS]

00:52:18   some big plot twist happens MIT from the [TS]

00:52:20   book and so we'll get some crazy stuff [TS]

00:52:21   in the end like I don't know crazy [TS]

00:52:23   aliens with like lasers on their heads [TS]

00:52:25   show up for something [TS]

00:52:26   nope that's not what happens we get [TS]

00:52:28   basically what is a 350-page story that [TS]

00:52:30   should have been like a 70-page novella [TS]

00:52:33   yeah I can i I can't argue with that i [TS]

00:52:37   can tell you what I think I think check [TS]

00:52:38   David does not [TS]

00:52:39   he's a feel-good kind of writer somebody [TS]

00:52:41   wants to write the story about the dark [TS]

00:52:42   ages he just wants to have it there [TS]

00:52:44   because these books are very comfortable [TS]

00:52:45   they're all about people eating [TS]

00:52:47   sandwiches and going to restaurants [TS]

00:52:50   and going on going to the beach and they [TS]

00:52:53   fly in their little you know auto-drive [TS]

00:52:55   little space pods that fly them places [TS]

00:52:58   or you know two different cities and [TS]

00:53:00   it's like a travel log it's super like [TS]

00:53:02   it's like or just creature comforts for [TS]

00:53:05   everybody it is a magical place the [TS]

00:53:07   future the far future and i also found [TS]

00:53:10   like the central concept like all the [TS]

00:53:12   characters say repeatedly there are no [TS]

00:53:14   mysteries left to solve we're so bored [TS]

00:53:16   we've solved everything but then they [TS]

00:53:17   have this huge central mystery of why [TS]

00:53:19   the ship's keep falling and disappearing [TS]

00:53:21   and no one knows how to figure it out [TS]

00:53:23   it's very confusing now that didn't i [TS]

00:53:25   didn't buy that for a second like you [TS]

00:53:27   serious like you had a prologue where [TS]

00:53:28   you announce a mystery you know what [TS]

00:53:30   happened to the Landers where they go [TS]

00:53:33   there's a mystery you don't know the [TS]

00:53:34   answer to that question clearly and like [TS]

00:53:37   come on they cannot have got like 10,000 [TS]

00:53:38   years in the future we can have got to a [TS]

00:53:40   point where humanity is like well [TS]

00:53:41   there's nothing else for us to figure [TS]

00:53:42   out so we're all bored now [TS]

00:53:45   are you serious are you serious you've [TS]

00:53:48   figured everything out [TS]

00:53:50   no I'm not mmm no not buying it so I [TS]

00:53:54   just didn't like this book yeah no [TS]

00:53:56   comment [TS]

00:53:56   sean is passionate feel like I hear you [TS]

00:53:59   I hear you're just so bored I just [TS]

00:54:01   inclined and I'm inclined to like his [TS]

00:54:03   stuff and like I said it's like a warm [TS]

00:54:05   it's like a warm blanket it's just all [TS]

00:54:07   its just cozy to read them and I was [TS]

00:54:09   like here it's just not some [TS]

00:54:11   oh well maybe next time jack mcdevitt [TS]

00:54:12   maybe hope so next time i was really [TS]

00:54:15   looking forward to that one and then it [TS]

00:54:16   just almost made me cry entire ok [TS]

00:54:20   alright let's talk we got two left [TS]

00:54:25   let's talk about annihilation by jeff [TS]

00:54:27   vandermeer yes i think first you go [TS]

00:54:30   first [TS]

00:54:31   yes that's right the seven times yes [TS]

00:54:34   Fred well it is short which i think is [TS]

00:54:36   really interesting i was reading it and [TS]

00:54:37   thinking wow this was really moving [TS]

00:54:39   along and I was watching on my kindle i [TS]

00:54:41   was watching the percentage going up [TS]

00:54:42   going wow this is this is not a thousand [TS]

00:54:45   page novel thank goodness i think it's [TS]

00:54:48   it's three it's 18 thousand page novel [TS]

00:54:51   broken into three parts and this is the [TS]

00:54:53   first part me he wrote this [TS]

00:54:56   he had a he got sick and had this weird [TS]

00:54:58   dream [TS]

00:55:00   so he started writing it down as a novel [TS]

00:55:03   and this is what came out and this is [TS]

00:55:04   kind of white I mean maybe this is why [TS]

00:55:06   people don't like it but this is why I [TS]

00:55:07   do like it it feels like a dream to me [TS]

00:55:09   and it all the good ways and basically [TS]

00:55:14   what happened is in sometime in the past [TS]

00:55:17   something weird happened in the u.s. [TS]

00:55:19   probably in florida and seal Sean off [TS]

00:55:23   behind a a place called the southern [TS]

00:55:25   reach where weird things happen and the [TS]

00:55:27   government keeps sending expeditions [TS]

00:55:29   into trying to figure out what's going [TS]

00:55:31   on this expedition you have four [TS]

00:55:34   characters none of which use their names [TS]

00:55:37   are only known by the professions they [TS]

00:55:40   go in and basically as soon as they get [TS]

00:55:42   into this via the area reacts things [TS]

00:55:45   start going weird people die people [TS]

00:55:48   transform strange creatures are seen and [TS]

00:55:52   strange buildings are explored so it's [TS]

00:55:55   more a mood thing it's a you're not [TS]

00:55:57   getting a characterization out of this [TS]

00:55:58   you're not hardly even get a story but [TS]

00:56:01   you're just going to get this very [TS]

00:56:02   strange feeling like a dream which for [TS]

00:56:05   some authors like polo or Lovecraft or a [TS]

00:56:09   van Vogt excelled in this sort of thing [TS]

00:56:11   and I kind of enjoy that because of that [TS]

00:56:13   line I totally agree i love this book [TS]

00:56:16   uh I thought it was great i also think [TS]

00:56:19   it would be so I was talking to one of [TS]

00:56:21   my friends about this book and about [TS]

00:56:23   this podcast and how I thought that this [TS]

00:56:25   book was the best-written of the three [TS]

00:56:28   like the writing is just beautiful its [TS]

00:56:31   atmospheric but the plot is [TS]

00:56:34   inconsequential the characters are [TS]

00:56:36   inconsequential and I can understand how [TS]

00:56:39   that would drive people crazy and just [TS]

00:56:41   hate this book because if you're reading [TS]

00:56:45   it for a plot and characters you're just [TS]

00:56:46   going to be like what the hell that I [TS]

00:56:48   just read this makes no sense and I'm [TS]

00:56:50   angry [TS]

00:56:51   but and that's why I don't think if I [TS]

00:56:54   could wave a magic wand and award the [TS]

00:56:57   nebula just something i would not give [TS]

00:56:59   its to annihilation because i feel like [TS]

00:57:01   the nebula award like shows up on a [TS]

00:57:04   cover and someone who's sci-fi curious [TS]

00:57:07   will pick it up and then they will read [TS]

00:57:08   this book and possibly never read any [TS]

00:57:10   science between over again and I don't [TS]

00:57:13   want that to happen so a little more [TS]

00:57:15   straightforward story would probably be [TS]

00:57:16   better suited to win the nebula but if [TS]

00:57:18   if I had to pick the one that I love the [TS]

00:57:20   most to win i would i would pick [TS]

00:57:22   annihilation [TS]

00:57:24   well this might be I mean if the hugo [TS]

00:57:26   last year they gave what they nominated [TS]

00:57:29   the wheel time because they have this [TS]

00:57:30   obscure rule about series this might [TS]

00:57:33   have been the case where they should [TS]

00:57:34   have done that with this because all [TS]

00:57:35   three books came out last year in this [TS]

00:57:38   trilogy and are now out and under one [TS]

00:57:40   set of covers and each 18 it's [TS]

00:57:43   interesting how he changed the approach [TS]

00:57:45   for each book and it's a very [TS]

00:57:47   interesting experiment for the whole [TS]

00:57:48   thing and maybe that should have been [TS]

00:57:50   the denomination of course we would've [TS]

00:57:53   been reading a what that's 1,800 what [TS]

00:57:56   yeah but I would be okay with that [TS]

00:57:58   because Jeff and Amir is he's a genius [TS]

00:58:02   I've been a fan of his Sin City Saints [TS]

00:58:04   and madmen meter which is also a [TS]

00:58:07   beautiful book not a short book but [TS]

00:58:08   deservedly a long book and also has [TS]

00:58:11   fruiting bodies mushrooms [TS]

00:58:13   yeah it if family or is extremely weird [TS]

00:58:17   author and that makes sense given all [TS]

00:58:19   the anthologies on weird stuff he's done [TS]

00:58:21   it's clear that that's where he's at [TS]

00:58:23   home [TS]

00:58:24   we're just kind of ripping apart reality [TS]

00:58:26   a little bit and that's part of why i [TS]

00:58:28   love about annihilation not least that [TS]

00:58:30   it's you know what part of it is it's [TS]

00:58:32   short and so it it's nice that it's not [TS]

00:58:35   a 10,000 page novel so I could I could [TS]

00:58:37   really push through it but it's his [TS]

00:58:39   prose is really crisp and his ideas are [TS]

00:58:43   just like the further you get into this [TS]

00:58:45   book it's like going into a madhouse and [TS]

00:58:48   i love that I love that about all of his [TS]

00:58:50   work is a lot like that it's it's very [TS]

00:58:52   surreal at times [TS]

00:58:54   genre bending it's crazy [TS]

00:58:58   he just as weird stuff with the like the [TS]

00:59:01   natural landscape amitabh this book is [TS]

00:59:03   fairly obviously influenced by by [TS]

00:59:05   Florida the Florida fauna and i know he [TS]

00:59:08   said in interviews that it you know he'd [TS]

00:59:10   go out to the woods and like take hikes [TS]

00:59:12   and see weird stuff in the woods link [TS]

00:59:14   like we're daughter creatures and stuff [TS]

00:59:16   i don't know if he's actually seen weird [TS]

00:59:17   creatures that's what just we said in [TS]

00:59:19   interviews but while the board the [TS]

00:59:21   boring stuff in the book is actually [TS]

00:59:23   happened to him real or yeah [TS]

00:59:26   ah i'm even shoot at it or whatever but [TS]

00:59:29   that that's directly from his own [TS]

00:59:31   experiences arm and the the right i [TS]

00:59:36   think the writing or the tunnel [TS]

00:59:37   sequences what happened in his nightmare [TS]

00:59:40   so you know that would make sense add [TS]

00:59:44   disqus strange strange dreams [TS]

00:59:47   yeah that titles a whole metaphor for [TS]

00:59:49   this book because the deep you go into [TS]

00:59:50   this book that he is like going deeper [TS]

00:59:53   at all trying to read the words on that [TS]

00:59:55   tunnel trying to make sense of it and [TS]

00:59:57   there's that creature at the bottom [TS]

00:59:57   there's that creature at the bottom [TS]

01:00:00   and it's just like it's just like you [TS]

01:00:02   can't escape it [TS]

01:00:03   I listen to this as an audiobook driving [TS]

01:00:05   back from Arkansas in the middle of our [TS]

01:00:08   to drive reading is not listening is [TS]

01:00:10   Arkansas and Missouri that was a very [TS]

01:00:11   odd experience about drive-through [TS]

01:00:14   backwards Arkansas listening to this I [TS]

01:00:17   tell you that was a very odd way to [TS]

01:00:19   experiences because perfect i have been [TS]

01:00:22   only a more perfect was on the on the on [TS]

01:00:25   the Florida coast where eroded that so [TS]

01:00:28   this book this book affected me strongly [TS]

01:00:30   because I listen to it or just the right [TS]

01:00:32   place to really get my good really get [TS]

01:00:35   feelings my bones and like I've been [TS]

01:00:37   reading his books and reading his books [TS]

01:00:39   in city of st. imagine the original not [TS]

01:00:41   even though expand on the small 1i have [TS]

01:00:44   wave okay yeah because because it came [TS]

01:00:46   out in two verses came in this small and [TS]

01:00:48   they came in the big heart for night I [TS]

01:00:50   read both of those and so I've been [TS]

01:00:52   exposed to is to the spores of its [TS]

01:00:55   friction for a long long time now and [TS]

01:00:57   also explores of his comments on a [TS]

01:00:59   signal platter story friend knows about [TS]

01:01:01   uh well I'm the original spore spore [TS]

01:01:04   recipient from my yes you are but you [TS]

01:01:07   have so this guy I was I was realized I [TS]

01:01:09   mean his prints crows is just evocative [TS]

01:01:12   the world i mean yeah i mean the [TS]

01:01:14   characters are archetypes because [TS]

01:01:15   they're only given as Julius titles and [TS]

01:01:19   they're not really well characterized [TS]

01:01:21   not even the biologist but it is just [TS]

01:01:23   just the sense of this world that II [TS]

01:01:26   area exedy folks is just hunting i can [TS]

01:01:31   see how it came out of the dream Jason I [TS]

01:01:33   think you might have a different haha [TS]

01:01:37   and waiting [TS]

01:01:38   yeah I i think i agree that he is a very [TS]

01:01:44   talented writer and this is an [TS]

01:01:45   incredibly well-written book i think [TS]

01:01:48   there are images in it that are amazing [TS]

01:01:50   i am there are passages that i [TS]

01:01:53   highlighted that I thought were really [TS]

01:01:55   cool i like the idea of who the [TS]

01:01:57   biologists is or at least says she is [TS]

01:02:02   about you no not there's an interesting [TS]

01:02:06   passage where she says I I'm not a [TS]

01:02:09   religious or superstitious purchase [TS]

01:02:11   person they might see it differently [TS]

01:02:13   I'm not those people on just the [TS]

01:02:15   biologist I don't require any of this to [TS]

01:02:17   have a deeper meaning which i think is [TS]

01:02:18   really interesting about this character [TS]

01:02:20   that this character is sort of accepting [TS]

01:02:22   what she sees and not trying to [TS]

01:02:26   transform it into something else which [TS]

01:02:27   is at all it's almost at you know as a [TS]

01:02:30   as a reader or as a writer right it's [TS]

01:02:32   almost like putting down your card of [TS]

01:02:34   saying so you can choose to view this on [TS]

01:02:37   one level or you can choose to view it [TS]

01:02:38   on another level you decide it's really [TS]

01:02:41   an interesting gambit almost I think of [TS]

01:02:43   another part of the writer so all that [TS]

01:02:46   said I came to the end I thought and I [TS]

01:02:49   hate to make fun i make fun of a [TS]

01:02:50   Goodreads reviewers who spent the first [TS]

01:02:52   three quarters of the review describing [TS]

01:02:54   the rating system in detail haha but i [TS]

01:02:57   actually ended up being in that position [TS]

01:03:00   where i was hovering over the over the [TS]

01:03:03   rating at the end of the book because i [TS]

01:03:04   read on my Kindle and thinking and I [TS]

01:03:06   literally thought well is this 4 stars [TS]

01:03:09   are two stars but and I i said it was [TS]

01:03:13   two stars and here's why [TS]

01:03:15   although i think it is beautiful and it [TS]

01:03:17   is dreamlike there are two ways to [TS]

01:03:19   interpret the phrase dreamlike and 1 is [TS]

01:03:21   0 and i want to mention it it did bring [TS]

01:03:24   back Lovecraft to me it's got that [TS]

01:03:26   feeling of of you know strange [TS]

01:03:28   happenings and horrible things are going [TS]

01:03:30   to happen and it's it's weird and [TS]

01:03:32   there's madness and and I thought that [TS]

01:03:34   was kind of effective but in the end the [TS]

01:03:36   dreamlike thing you know dreamlike thing [TS]

01:03:39   can be this this mood and aware things [TS]

01:03:42   don't make sense and all sorts of doing [TS]

01:03:44   things can happen dreams also don't make [TS]

01:03:47   any sense and you can say something as [TS]

01:03:50   dreamlike and what it really is is the [TS]

01:03:52   author coming up with a whole bunch of [TS]

01:03:54   different stuff and just slapping it [TS]

01:03:56   into the book and saying dream and [TS]

01:04:00   honestly I felt the presence of the [TS]

01:04:03   author a little bit too much for me to [TS]

01:04:04   like this book it felt to me like an [TS]

01:04:08   exercise that there were interesting [TS]

01:04:11   images stitch together but for me it [TS]

01:04:13   didn't work for me it felt artificial it [TS]

01:04:16   really much felt like he had he had [TS]

01:04:18   written some really interesting pieces [TS]

01:04:21   about Florida flora and fauna and some [TS]

01:04:24   creepy things about this [TS]

01:04:26   staircase and all that and kind of [TS]

01:04:28   slapped it all together but it didn't [TS]

01:04:30   hold for me so you know I I'm trying not [TS]

01:04:33   to be unkind because I think he's I [TS]

01:04:34   think his writing is beautiful but in [TS]

01:04:37   the end it felt kind of like a con to me [TS]

01:04:39   it didn't i didn't buy into it so in the [TS]

01:04:42   end I gotta say it was way better [TS]

01:04:46   written than several of the books on the [TS]

01:04:48   left this list but I i can't say that i [TS]

01:04:50   liked it i do sometimes enjoy lyrical I [TS]

01:04:53   I don't require a plot and characters in [TS]

01:04:56   every book i read like I said I feel [TS]

01:04:58   like there's a spell that can be revoked [TS]

01:05:00   and it just the spell broke for me and I [TS]

01:05:03   i started thinking of it much more as if [TS]

01:05:05   i was reading short stories from a [TS]

01:05:07   fiction writing class and saying you [TS]

01:05:09   know [TS]

01:05:09   yes you did put together five images [TS]

01:05:12   from that dream you had last night after [TS]

01:05:14   you had a little too much taco bell and [TS]

01:05:17   good for you you're a good writer but [TS]

01:05:19   this doesn't get these are just images [TS]

01:05:21   so we're well where's the rest of it the [TS]

01:05:24   next two books are very different [TS]

01:05:27   I'll say that much anyway I'm glad i [TS]

01:05:28   read it and I'm also glad which I'm also [TS]

01:05:31   glad it was short and I don't just mean [TS]

01:05:33   that insulting well I really like that [TS]

01:05:36   it move it [TS]

01:05:37   it moved and ended and you know more [TS]

01:05:41   books should probably last we said [TS]

01:05:43   earlier should probably take that to [TS]

01:05:45   heart that they don't only double yes [TS]

01:05:47   overstuffed this is a lien on it [TS]

01:05:49   beautiful beautifully written book that [TS]

01:05:52   just you know i didn't i didn't think [TS]

01:05:54   came together but you know I i agree [TS]

01:05:56   with you on all the other points that is [TS]

01:05:58   he's a very good writer [TS]

01:06:00   guys I think that we all have reached an [TS]

01:06:02   understanding and I just an awful person [TS]

01:06:04   let's move on to the last book the [TS]

01:06:08   Goblin Emperor by Catherine Addison it a [TS]

01:06:13   book if you talk about expectations I [TS]

01:06:15   had no expectations going in but very [TS]

01:06:16   early on when you discover that this is [TS]

01:06:19   a you know it's a fantasy novel and it's [TS]

01:06:20   setting this elven realm and they're [TS]

01:06:23   elves and goblins and there are you know [TS]

01:06:26   their social hierarchies and there's [TS]

01:06:27   histories of battles and things like [TS]

01:06:29   that [TS]

01:06:30   I thought I kind of felt like it there [TS]

01:06:33   was a really nice setup here for what [TS]

01:06:36   we've come to expect from a fantasy [TS]

01:06:38   novel and i'll just say I [TS]

01:06:40   was so delighted that none of that [TS]

01:06:42   happened and that is this ended up being [TS]

01:06:45   this this is a story about a character [TS]

01:06:47   who ends up finding himself by quite by [TS]

01:06:50   accident [TS]

01:06:51   well accident quite quite quite [TS]

01:06:54   unexpectedly let's put it that way as [TS]

01:06:56   the Emperor of this entire kingdom the [TS]

01:07:00   Empire whatever and and instead of it [TS]

01:07:04   being like and then I mean there are [TS]

01:07:06   assassination attempts in here but it's [TS]

01:07:09   not like and then there was an [TS]

01:07:09   assassination attempt and then the war [TS]

01:07:11   and then there was a battle and all that [TS]

01:07:13   instead it's really like how does this [TS]

01:07:14   young person who is very bright but not [TS]

01:07:17   well-educated navigate this incredibly [TS]

01:07:20   complex set of politics in order to [TS]

01:07:24   survive and find out who he wants to be [TS]

01:07:26   and that's it that's what the book is [TS]

01:07:29   and i loved it i really i really loved [TS]

01:07:32   it i love being surprised by this book [TS]

01:07:34   and I also just loved the book itself [TS]

01:07:36   and that that's what it was and it was [TS]

01:07:39   okay that this ended up being kind of [TS]

01:07:41   how you know how is this kid gonna [TS]

01:07:43   figure out how to have this job instead [TS]

01:07:46   of armies clash and you know anything [TS]

01:07:49   just it wasn't necessary that it was a [TS]

01:07:51   totally different kind of book but i [TS]

01:07:53   thought i thought was a I thought it was [TS]

01:07:55   beautiful so I'll i loved it [TS]

01:07:57   what did what did you all think he just [TS]

01:07:59   wants to build a bridge [TS]

01:08:00   he's just a bridge-builder let him build [TS]

01:08:02   the print edition bridges are fun [TS]

01:08:04   come on this is so different than her [TS]

01:08:06   other novels I mean I read her novels as [TS]

01:08:10   ceremony at who's the actual name of the [TS]

01:08:11   author years ago and this is so [TS]

01:08:15   different I mean that in terms of [TS]

01:08:17   quality she's this piece yet she had [TS]

01:08:19   health problems associated in writing [TS]

01:08:22   for many years so this is actually a [TS]

01:08:23   return to form for trooper I mean she [TS]

01:08:26   should read a couple novels to with [TS]

01:08:27   elizabeth bear and those had trailed off [TS]

01:08:29   the wall because her health condition [TS]

01:08:30   and so I was thinking okay so we're [TS]

01:08:32   gonna get nice really nice dark fantasy [TS]

01:08:34   right [TS]

01:08:35   no because her other cells can get [TS]

01:08:38   really dark and twisted and complicated [TS]

01:08:41   politics and we have complicated [TS]

01:08:43   politics here but it's a much smaller [TS]

01:08:45   stories about about a kid was it [TS]

01:08:48   becoming a pro by accident and [TS]

01:08:50   eventually just building a bridge in [TS]

01:08:52   trying to survive [TS]

01:08:54   and I appreciate that because it's not a [TS]

01:08:56   story about the the whole state of the [TS]

01:08:58   kingdom of the world's at stake for [TS]

01:09:00   announce it [TS]

01:09:01   it's a smaller scale spoiler stakes [TS]

01:09:03   story and we can have those and she [TS]

01:09:05   executed it excellently I I mean about [TS]

01:09:09   the only thing this thing then black [TS]

01:09:10   this lack and was a map i butting in my [TS]

01:09:14   own map [TS]

01:09:15   I'mI'm a partisan i'm at parties in [TS]

01:09:17   everyone knows everything is better with [TS]

01:09:19   maps everything but it would be nice to [TS]

01:09:22   get to know where some of these things [TS]

01:09:23   were I saw online service she had like a [TS]

01:09:26   have drawn half-assed map that she [TS]

01:09:30   posted somewhere i would like to have a [TS]

01:09:32   proper map map for this well because [TS]

01:09:34   that's that's just part of my [TS]

01:09:36   expectations advanced e-reader but yeah [TS]

01:09:38   i was delighted this is was not what was [TS]

01:09:41   not what as you said was it looked like [TS]

01:09:43   it was going to be was good it was a [TS]

01:09:45   much different [TS]

01:09:47   warframe story and elegantly well-told [TS]

01:09:50   or well III in general do not read that [TS]

01:09:54   much fantasy because I just don't like [TS]

01:09:56   it as much as science fiction so I went [TS]

01:09:59   in expecting this be the weakest of all [TS]

01:10:01   the reeds and I think it was purchased [TS]

01:10:03   about the strongest of all the reads for [TS]

01:10:05   many of the same reasons that you [TS]

01:10:07   mentioned Jason like I was expecting [TS]

01:10:09   okay guys going to become emperor and at [TS]

01:10:12   some point there's going to be a big [TS]

01:10:13   battle because somebody's gonna be it [TS]

01:10:15   and you don't have to leave the troops [TS]

01:10:16   in battle and we'll get killed everybody [TS]

01:10:18   said no that doesn't happen you know [TS]

01:10:20   he'll go on a quest because he's the [TS]

01:10:22   Emperor he has to save the kingdom well [TS]

01:10:24   that doesn't happen under the usual [TS]

01:10:26   tropes happened it was sort of like last [TS]

01:10:28   year when we read the Goblin in the [TS]

01:10:30   general and they had that seen the idea [TS]

01:10:32   that the one that the gin makes the [TS]

01:10:34   other the map that's on the ceiling of [TS]

01:10:37   the apartment you walk in and when the [TS]

01:10:39   light hits the right way you see the the [TS]

01:10:41   hills and valleys and everything you [TS]

01:10:43   know this is that this same thing [TS]

01:10:44   happened to me when I read this and [TS]

01:10:45   everything with the bridge with a little [TS]

01:10:47   model of the present so fascinated with [TS]

01:10:49   the workmanship you know it'sit's it was [TS]

01:10:51   seems like that that really captivated [TS]

01:10:53   me and I mean that i had trouble with [TS]

01:10:57   the names [TS]

01:10:58   yeah the guys would be any audiobook [TS]

01:11:00   because the do the words no no no I'm [TS]

01:11:03   not it i as an audiobook and it didn't [TS]

01:11:06   help [TS]

01:11:06   no like what the hell were these people [TS]

01:11:09   it's very complicated like I is that [TS]

01:11:12   would be my one criticism as I felt like [TS]

01:11:14   I like that you set up this whole world [TS]

01:11:16   that seems foreign but I it actually got [TS]

01:11:17   in my way all of these complicated [TS]

01:11:19   proper names that were just so hard to [TS]

01:11:23   keep track of and and even think about [TS]

01:11:25   how you would pronounce them and I even [TS]

01:11:27   knew Hungarian people so I love these [TS]

01:11:29   names seem very Hungarian to me but [TS]

01:11:32   still it was too many it was just there [TS]

01:11:33   just to manage to put this society and [TS]

01:11:36   they like the fact that he had different [TS]

01:11:38   rooms for different audiences [TS]

01:11:40   yeah you know different mean just living [TS]

01:11:42   in the castle and trying to make friends [TS]

01:11:44   that whole thing with the cards you know [TS]

01:11:46   we can't be your friends because we have [TS]

01:11:48   two cars jewelry in if we're friends we [TS]

01:11:50   might not react as fast mean there's [TS]

01:11:53   just so much that I enjoyed about this i [TS]

01:11:54   like that Maya the the main character is [TS]

01:11:57   a is smart like yes the be smart but not [TS]

01:12:01   educated and you know is such a great [TS]

01:12:05   thing to do because it would be very [TS]

01:12:06   easy for him to be to be you know [TS]

01:12:09   portrayed as being dumb or you know or [TS]

01:12:11   or being like so impossibly smart that [TS]

01:12:13   he can figure everything out right away [TS]

01:12:15   and it's neither of those things is a [TS]

01:12:16   person who is smart and trying to learn [TS]

01:12:18   but there's too much to learn and not [TS]

01:12:20   enough time to learn it and I think [TS]

01:12:21   that's a really interesting place for [TS]

01:12:23   the character to be asked questions and [TS]

01:12:25   he learns ya NAA even tries to like you [TS]

01:12:27   know hit the biggest enemy quote-unquote [TS]

01:12:29   I think would be his cousin in this book [TS]

01:12:32   and even tries to you know tries to [TS]

01:12:35   reconcile tries to find something to do [TS]

01:12:37   with him and whether the guy like likes [TS]

01:12:39   it accepts it [TS]

01:12:40   you know is up to him but might rise now [TS]

01:12:44   hehe it is a was this is it is aunt or [TS]

01:12:49   whatever is involved in the plot against [TS]

01:12:51   him right he does like banish everybody [TS]

01:12:54   he adopts basically the kids and takes [TS]

01:12:57   care of them brings them into his home [TS]

01:12:59   you know it's not like you know he [TS]

01:13:00   slaughters everybody like in a typical [TS]

01:13:02   game of Thrones episode or something [TS]

01:13:04   it's a very different look at empire [TS]

01:13:06   then the Empire the Raj yes yes doctor [TS]

01:13:09   not a lefty and I have teeth at one [TS]

01:13:13   stage there's tea though there is [TS]

01:13:15   there's a breakfast Thursday theirs too [TS]

01:13:16   yeah [TS]

01:13:17   no sandwiches though so Jack whatever [TS]

01:13:19   yeah yeah yeah I mean I overall I [TS]

01:13:24   enjoyed it [TS]

01:13:25   the thing that I had a lot of issue with [TS]

01:13:27   was the second the character started [TS]

01:13:30   doing the d and now and can stand what [TS]

01:13:32   it's stuff which I suspect a lot of [TS]

01:13:35   people that have an issue with that that [TS]

01:13:37   just every time they started doing that [TS]

01:13:39   i started rolling my eyes it's a the way [TS]

01:13:41   the way they put it I mean it is sort of [TS]

01:13:43   like what and like he does in the [TS]

01:13:45   ancillary books which is issue is she's [TS]

01:13:48   trying to get across language [TS]

01:13:50   differences so the idea there is that [TS]

01:13:51   they've got like in like in German or [TS]

01:13:54   something they've got they've got like [TS]

01:13:55   the formal in the informal and it's all [TS]

01:13:57   about how you speak like they all speak [TS]

01:13:59   plural when they're with the Emperor [TS]

01:14:01   that's how you're supposed to do it and [TS]

01:14:03   when you go to vm Val you're speaking [TS]

01:14:05   down to somebody I finally figured that [TS]

01:14:06   out nervously okay well this isn't just [TS]

01:14:08   ridiculous now at least I understand why [TS]

01:14:11   it because because it at first it was [TS]

01:14:12   really in Congress it's like what why [TS]

01:14:14   are you talking like this now but in the [TS]

01:14:17   end I think that was what was intended [TS]

01:14:18   as to she was trying to show off like [TS]

01:14:21   like levels of you what are you talking [TS]

01:14:25   down or up to somebody or they at your [TS]

01:14:27   level with these different ways of [TS]

01:14:29   addressing them because that's a [TS]

01:14:30   temporary cares about that i guess i [TS]

01:14:33   guess that could have been done better [TS]

01:14:36   maybe a little more artfully that i [TS]

01:14:37   could but i could buy that or at least [TS]

01:14:39   made very clear from the start that [TS]

01:14:41   that's what's happening because the [TS]

01:14:42   second it happened I just by its journey [TS]

01:14:46   and a lot of it i just i i hate when [TS]

01:14:49   people use bowing can stand witnessed as [TS]

01:14:53   other writing like Shakespeare and I'm [TS]

01:14:54   like as not now let's not do that please [TS]

01:14:57   yeah that also goes a little goes the [TS]

01:14:59   names of she's very interested in [TS]

01:15:01   language and its forms and how people [TS]

01:15:04   use it and it's constructions and so and [TS]

01:15:07   maybe sometimes it's a little [TS]

01:15:09   off-putting with that pressure for the [TS]

01:15:10   these thousand can send for you Jason [TS]

01:15:13   pro and you are friends with with the [TS]

01:15:15   name's Abby I mean she's got she's she's [TS]

01:15:17   got a vision in our mind and maybe [TS]

01:15:20   sometimes it goes a little too far [TS]

01:15:22   I enjoyed it greatly I believe what skin [TS]

01:15:26   in a magical world where I am awarding [TS]

01:15:28   the nebulous of this in fact [TS]

01:15:30   win the nebula because I just thought it [TS]

01:15:33   was delightful i liked the main [TS]

01:15:36   character I i will echo everything that [TS]

01:15:38   everyone else said about how you know [TS]

01:15:40   you go in reading inspecting okay well [TS]

01:15:43   it's this you know this little upstart [TS]

01:15:45   wasn't really enough for this kind of [TS]

01:15:47   Forgotten kid that the the Emperor [TS]

01:15:50   didn't want to have anything to do with [TS]

01:15:52   and no one ever thought would be Emperor [TS]

01:15:54   because they're through his three [TS]

01:15:55   brothers and so clearly he's never going [TS]

01:15:57   to become the Emperor and they all died [TS]

01:16:00   there's no in a horrible airship [TS]

01:16:02   accident i should say there by checking [TS]

01:16:04   off an important box on the incomparable [TS]

01:16:05   what are their Zeppelin's whoo [TS]

01:16:07   Zeppelin's yes Zeppelin's tricep once in [TS]

01:16:09   the compliment [TS]

01:16:11   he's a footnote he's never intended to [TS]

01:16:15   be anyone [TS]

01:16:17   and in fact has been locked away [TS]

01:16:18   somewhere being abused essentially yeah [TS]

01:16:20   and i thought that that relationship was [TS]

01:16:22   really interesting and how you know he's [TS]

01:16:25   being raised quote-unquote by some kind [TS]

01:16:29   of vague relatives / courtier and not [TS]

01:16:34   very well and then suddenly the power [TS]

01:16:37   dynamic shifts and he's the Emperor and [TS]

01:16:40   now his uncle I guess was a wants to you [TS]

01:16:43   know he's back in court and he's trying [TS]

01:16:45   to curry favor and Mia is resisting just [TS]

01:16:49   using all of his power to just punish [TS]

01:16:51   this man for all the horrible things [TS]

01:16:53   he's done to him and I just that was [TS]

01:16:55   fascinating [TS]

01:16:55   I like I think it's a good good trait in [TS]

01:16:59   an emperor and I think this is the point [TS]

01:17:00   of it obviously in the industry is to [TS]

01:17:02   you can you can literally just command [TS]

01:17:06   for people to be taken away and killed [TS]

01:17:08   or locked up or somewhere he is it but [TS]

01:17:10   his childhood was so awful that he [TS]

01:17:12   fights against it at every step [TS]

01:17:13   even with people who have done pretty [TS]

01:17:15   awful things and I mean that that's a [TS]

01:17:16   really fast way to to get some [TS]

01:17:19   understanding of the decency of the [TS]

01:17:20   character that that the kid that that my [TS]

01:17:23   resists doing that but I thought it was [TS]

01:17:25   really interesting especially with this [TS]

01:17:27   one character who is just abused him for [TS]

01:17:29   his entire life and he he tries very [TS]

01:17:31   hard to get him away without like like [TS]

01:17:35   doing to him what was done to him [TS]

01:17:37   yeah other thoughts I i agree with scott [TS]

01:17:41   by the way I i would i would [TS]

01:17:43   my magical amulet with the Goblin [TS]

01:17:45   temporary with my yeah there's my [TS]

01:17:47   favorite to buy yep the Goblin / was my [TS]

01:17:50   favorite followed closely by [TS]

01:17:52   annihilation and then ancillary sort of [TS]

01:17:54   had to write my top three nebula picks [TS]

01:17:56   will be those three [TS]

01:17:58   let's do more ranking Sean you're all [TS]

01:18:00   wrong [TS]

01:18:01   what do you want to wait don't tell us [TS]

01:18:02   your rankings I annihilation at the top [TS]

01:18:05   followed by three body problem ancillary [TS]

01:18:08   sword than goblin Emperor interesting [TS]

01:18:10   not not so into the god the reason that [TS]

01:18:13   was really just got to you that pulls me [TS]

01:18:16   out of almost any fantasy story went to [TS]

01:18:18   unless unless it's like literally [TS]

01:18:19   Shakespeare doing it in which case I'm [TS]

01:18:21   like that's cool because elizabeth bear [TS]

01:18:23   has done that bit where she's had [TS]

01:18:24   Shakespeare actually say that these and [TS]

01:18:25   thousands like yeah well if it's Jake [TS]

01:18:27   we're doing it I'm cool other rankings [TS]

01:18:29   Fred did you rank them I would uh tied [TS]

01:18:33   for first was vandemere and this one [TS]

01:18:36   second three-body third was and lucky [TS]

01:18:40   all right for me and then other books [TS]

01:18:42   were also listed yes now i get there was [TS]

01:18:47   not a single book i disliked I enjoyed [TS]

01:18:50   the mall is just that I felt these were [TS]

01:18:52   better than the rest so no yeah there's [TS]

01:18:56   only one but i actually actively [TS]

01:18:58   disliked so i should say that it's got [TS]

01:19:01   worried about you [TS]

01:19:01   there were two books I actively decided [TS]

01:19:04   I would be I would rank goblin Emperor [TS]

01:19:08   annihilation three-body problem [TS]

01:19:11   ancillary sword and then others the [TS]

01:19:15   other others [TS]

01:19:17   yes fair enough and for me [TS]

01:19:21   yeah i would be goblin Emperor ancillary [TS]

01:19:24   sword three body and and the other box [TS]

01:19:31   other books would be below the half-up [TS]

01:19:33   well I want to see where it is coming [TS]

01:19:35   home and annihilation or not probably i [TS]

01:19:38   would probably put an Iowa shin next [TS]

01:19:40   only because it is so well written [TS]

01:19:42   even though ultimately my feelings about [TS]

01:19:44   I i have this occasion with boot books [TS]

01:19:47   and movies where I where I think about [TS]

01:19:48   the book a lot or the movie and I and [TS]

01:19:50   III appreciate that it made me really [TS]

01:19:52   think about it [TS]

01:19:53   and then I say ne and I don't think it [TS]

01:19:56   worked I you know I think it was a [TS]

01:19:57   failure i didn't like it and and those [TS]

01:19:59   are better than the ones that I'm just [TS]

01:20:01   like oh come on this isn't very good and [TS]

01:20:04   so I recognize even though i ended up [TS]

01:20:06   not kind of not liking it I recognize [TS]

01:20:07   the value in it and that why i [TS]

01:20:10   understand why other people would like [TS]

01:20:11   it a lot more so i probably better [TS]

01:20:13   ranking i'd probably put it above trial [TS]

01:20:15   by fire and then i gotta put poor old [TS]

01:20:17   Jack leeteuk down at the bottom even [TS]

01:20:18   though i like so many of those books [TS]

01:20:20   because I it's just not it's not very [TS]

01:20:21   good night I and i would say that did [TS]

01:20:23   that I have issues with trial by fire [TS]

01:20:26   and coming home but I read them both [TS]

01:20:28   without much trouble and I actually [TS]

01:20:30   think that like trial by fire my [TS]

01:20:31   problems are very much like not that I [TS]

01:20:33   didn't like the book but I felt like it [TS]

01:20:35   kind of went on too long and it was just [TS]

01:20:37   kind of too much in that story and it [TS]

01:20:38   could have could have moved a lot faster [TS]

01:20:40   and I think would have been better for [TS]

01:20:43   it but not that I I you know one of the [TS]

01:20:45   throw it out the window or anything like [TS]

01:20:46   that which since i read on my Kindle [TS]

01:20:47   would be a problem by the way so he can [TS]

01:20:50   go huh yeah I had copied onto a memory [TS]

01:20:52   stick and then throw that out the window [TS]

01:20:54   or something really nice so I have a [TS]

01:20:57   question for the the folks who red jack [TS]

01:21:00   mcdevitt and like it because i read [TS]

01:21:01   coming home and why didn't like it i [TS]

01:21:03   thought these are characters that I [TS]

01:21:05   could picture in a story that i would [TS]

01:21:07   like so what for someone who is only [TS]

01:21:10   read coming home what other jack [TS]

01:21:12   mcdevitt book should I read that will [TS]

01:21:15   make me happy [TS]

01:21:16   seeker is much better job i made me what [TS]

01:21:20   you think about giving him the one of [TS]

01:21:21   the Priscilla novel yeah i think that i [TS]

01:21:23   think the Priscilla Hutchins novels are [TS]

01:21:25   better than Alex Benedict every um the [TS]

01:21:28   first one of those edges of God which is [TS]

01:21:30   pretty good i really like deep six [TS]

01:21:32   because it is as crazy high stakes space [TS]

01:21:36   adventure as you're ever going to get [TS]

01:21:38   because they're literally on a planet [TS]

01:21:39   that is about to be hit like swallowed [TS]

01:21:42   whole by a rogue gas giant that's just [TS]

01:21:45   passing through the system so they so [TS]

01:21:48   they literally land on this planet and [TS]

01:21:49   find evidence of a previous [TS]

01:21:51   extraterrestrial civilization there but [TS]

01:21:54   there's this huge ticking clock that [TS]

01:21:55   they can't do anything about which is it [TS]

01:21:57   up planets gonna hit it and maybe that's [TS]

01:22:00   just so outrageous and yet i really like [TS]

01:22:03   a memorable and interesting and and so I [TS]

01:22:06   you know [TS]

01:22:06   those books the Priscilla Hodgins books [TS]

01:22:08   I'd say our are there i think they're [TS]

01:22:11   all but always better like then the [TS]

01:22:14   comfortable Alex Benedict book but [TS]

01:22:16   seekers a good Alex panic but I also [TS]

01:22:17   have a weak spot friends from shorts [TS]

01:22:19   which is neither Jew which is nice not [TS]

01:22:22   nice and alone worries [TS]

01:22:24   yes and a lot same with Hercules text [TS]

01:22:26   moonfall those are both independence [TS]

01:22:28   yeah so does even enter read through [TS]

01:22:31   them without needing to note series race [TS]

01:22:33   series or anything else that we should [TS]

01:22:35   mention before we go I feel like we've [TS]

01:22:37   you know it's fun i find it fun it is a [TS]

01:22:40   lot of you know assigned reading in a [TS]

01:22:42   way we did a podcast about that but I i [TS]

01:22:44   did I you know I enjoy reading me it's [TS]

01:22:47   nice having a short list to read from it [TS]

01:22:49   is it can't be all you read me year but [TS]

01:22:52   it is kind of nice to have somebody say [TS]

01:22:53   hey we think these six books are worth [TS]

01:22:55   reading you should read those I i enjoy [TS]

01:22:57   doing that it makes us but it makes us [TS]

01:22:59   to quote up the coochie pocket as part [TS]

01:23:01   of the science-fiction conversation to [TS]

01:23:03   disengage with books which are nominated [TS]

01:23:05   yeah and and think about them and [TS]

01:23:08   somebody obviously thinks that they're [TS]

01:23:09   valuable and and that that's a nice [TS]

01:23:11   endorsement to be to say alright well [TS]

01:23:13   and you might read something you [TS]

01:23:14   wouldn't normally i don't i'm not sure I [TS]

01:23:16   would've ever I i know i would never [TS]

01:23:18   read the Goblin Emperor ever because I'm [TS]

01:23:21   not a fantasy reader if it had been [TS]

01:23:22   nominated and I really loved it so that [TS]

01:23:25   take up so i'm a dummy and I should i [TS]

01:23:27   guess i should read more fantasy so I [TS]

01:23:29   guess I should start on that and three [TS]

01:23:31   body problem i read a lot about but I [TS]

01:23:32   I'm not sure when i would have never [TS]

01:23:34   gotten to written got into it and [TS]

01:23:36   instead I got to read that was fun [TS]

01:23:38   so I hope you guys enjoyed the assigned [TS]

01:23:40   reading two more idea of it most of it [TS]

01:23:43   yeah enough networks five out of the six [TS]

01:23:47   i enjoyed for different reasons one of [TS]

01:23:50   them i did not that's not a bad batting [TS]

01:23:52   average last year I feel like we're very [TS]

01:23:53   lucky to have eight that were all pretty [TS]

01:23:56   decent not yes got em all right well so [TS]

01:24:02   that there we are we have we have [TS]

01:24:04   reached the end we've covered these [TS]

01:24:05   books are you can look on the internet [TS]

01:24:08   and find out which one won the award [TS]

01:24:12   yes we'll leave that your local internet [TS]

01:24:13   yeah we'll leave that as an exercise for [TS]

01:24:15   the listener or I'll dump in a thing [TS]

01:24:17   here that says hello this is jason for [TS]

01:24:19   the future [TS]

01:24:20   the winner of the nebula award for best [TS]

01:24:23   novel was aa annihilation that was me [TS]

01:24:27   from the future right there [TS]

01:24:29   alright i would like to thank my my my [TS]

01:24:31   reading guests for joining us for cash [TS]

01:24:35   thank you so much for being back on and [TS]

01:24:37   also for listening for a billion [TS]

01:24:38   episodes as you have no thank you and i [TS]

01:24:40   invite everyone over to the three [TS]

01:24:41   horsemen and to get a different view on [TS]

01:24:44   science fiction [TS]

01:24:45   you should check it out Palmer skippy [TS]

01:24:48   and fanti and SF signal to a little bit [TS]

01:24:51   right and i've only listened to a [TS]

01:24:52   million a billion episode so i guess and [TS]

01:24:55   fret as I said last year's friends fault [TS]

01:24:57   i started listening to in kabul in the [TS]

01:24:59   first place so thanks Brad thank fred [TS]

01:25:01   fred is like the Johnny Appleseed he's [TS]

01:25:02   like patient zero of the incomparable he [TS]

01:25:04   was there so early and has spread our [TS]

01:25:07   disease far and wide [TS]

01:25:08   Sean Dukes give you a fancy and of [TS]

01:25:11   course your new movie podcast totally [TS]

01:25:13   pretentious thank you for being here [TS]

01:25:15   absolutely thank you see we're plugging [TS]

01:25:17   things and it's got multi host of random [TS]

01:25:19   track [TS]

01:25:20   thank you for being here thank you for [TS]

01:25:23   everything I'm excited to be on an [TS]

01:25:25   uncomfortable episode i feel like i [TS]

01:25:26   haven't been uncomfortable for a long [TS]

01:25:28   time [TS]

01:25:28   well we'll have to rectify that and I [TS]

01:25:30   know all my fan were collaborating so [TS]

01:25:34   yes and maybe you could eat a sandwich [TS]

01:25:37   and read a good jack mcdevitt novel some [TS]

01:25:39   time until then thanks to everybody out [TS]

01:25:42   there hope you got some good book ideas [TS]

01:25:45   in this episode we will see you next [TS]

01:25:47   week [TS]

01:25:59   and now the news brought to you by [TS]

01:26:04   chocolate coffee the only coffee with [TS]

01:26:06   that extra special is an ingredient more [TS]

01:26:09   coffee [TS]

01:26:12   choco happened 378 coffee anymore that's [TS]

01:26:19   the incomparable radio theatre of the [TS]

01:26:21   air coming later this year to a podcast [TS]

01:26:23   playing near you but visit the [TS]

01:26:24   incomparable calm / radio now for a [TS]

01:26:27   special live episode [TS]