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0:00:54when you're a kid television is a
0:00:57daytime thing for an evening thing but
0:01:00at some point you go to bed and the
0:01:02grown-up stay up late and watch things
0:01:03you're just not allowed to see the
0:01:05nineteen seventies that forbidden things
0:01:07could be boiled down into a person
0:01:09Johnny Carson he was the thing that our
0:01:13parents watched late at night least
0:01:15sometimes and in the days before most
0:01:18families have VCRs if you were up at
0:01:20eleven-thirty with an earache or some
0:01:22other horrible affliction and your kid
0:01:24you never saw Johnny Carson
0:01:28well I loved Carson but it always felt
0:01:30to me I was too young and you know it's
0:01:32the lack of wisdom the foolishness of
0:01:34you think I thought well of course he's
0:01:36going to retirees kind of all right
0:01:38not that I was sick of a show but I
0:01:39thought of course you know where as you
0:01:41know in Letterman surround partner and
0:01:42right around the same age so I'm sure
0:01:44somebody who's in their twenties now
0:01:45it's gonna think the same thing well of
0:01:47course Letterman's retirees you know
0:01:49just kinda old when cars were retired in
0:01:511992 was a huge television event but of
0:01:54course Carson is retiring
0:01:56he's kind of old funny how time works
0:01:58now it's 2015 and the main comedy figure
0:02:00of my generation David Letterman is the
0:02:03old man and I find myself right where
0:02:06those fans of Johnny Carson war two
0:02:07decades ago saying goodbye to an
0:02:09immeasurably influential performer to an
0:02:12audience full of younger people who seem
0:02:14just as this old guy who's been on TV
0:02:16forever
0:02:17there's no single performer who has had
0:02:20more influence on my sense of humor on
0:02:21my appreciation for certain kinds of
0:02:23comedy
0:02:23even my understanding about how
0:02:25creativity works then David Letterman
0:02:28yeah that guy that cranky 68 year old
0:02:31guy who has been on television for more
0:02:34than 30 years now that guy this is the
0:02:37incomparable number 247 for may 2015 I'm
0:02:41Jason snow it's david letterman's last
0:02:44week on the air so let's send them off
0:02:46right
0:03:04in the nineteen seventies the nation
0:03:08discovered a young comedian named david
0:03:10letterman if I discovered you mean never
0:03:13noticed an Indiana native radio and TV
0:03:16broadcaster david letterman moved to LA
0:03:18in search of fame but what he found was
0:03:20a community of comedians who respected
0:03:22him and a series of forgettable
0:03:24television appearances on shows like the
0:03:26Starland Vocal Band show Mary Tyler
0:03:28Moore's post sitcom variety show Robin
0:03:32Williams got him a guest-starring gig on
0:03:33an episode of Mork and Mindy where David
0:03:36Letterman ultimately succeeded though
0:03:37was on The Tonight Show with Johnny
0:03:39Carson took a liking to him kept asking
0:03:41him back and ultimately made him a
0:03:43regular guest host NBC also had its eyes
0:03:46on data Letterman but with Carson at the
0:03:48height of his powers the question was
0:03:50what could they do with him so they did
0:03:52the logical thing they put them on the
0:03:54middle of the morning right after the
0:03:55Today Show I was 15 years old in the
0:03:58summer of nineteen eighty when David
0:04:01Letterman got his morning show and
0:04:02everybody knew David Letterman had no
0:04:06business doing a morning show but that
0:04:10was the slot that NBC had for him and in
0:04:13that day of very constrained Spink turd
0:04:17television programming schedules and
0:04:20priorities you made the best with what
0:04:22you had he did game shows as well he was
0:04:25a whiz at password and pyramid and
0:04:29whenever they could they should warn him
0:04:30in you know on one of you know whenever
0:04:34johnny was taking a vacation which was
0:04:36usually tomorrow
0:04:38thats Sarah Bernhardt former TV critic
0:04:40at the Kansas City Star and someone i
0:04:41met on the Internet specifically because
0:04:43of our love of david letterman and what
0:04:46a surprise when I discovered that the
0:04:47other TV critic i know Tim Goodman of
0:04:49the hollywood reporter was also watching
0:04:51that unlikely david letterman show that
0:04:53aired in the mornings in 1980s yeah is
0:04:57that I discovered when he had a show in
0:04:58the daytime
0:04:59oh you were one of the morning show
0:05:00people all right they show that was
0:05:02inappropriate for morning
0:05:03yeah this random and it was like Edwin
0:05:05Newman was one of those that yeah i was
0:05:07so weird back then and I was discovered
0:05:10that in those days and then and then
0:05:12just don't know i mean a little more
0:05:13jaded now because I've been the TV great
0:05:15for so long and there's been so many
0:05:16hosts there but
0:05:17at the time when I wasn't and I was a TV
0:05:20fan I was like a kid this guy to me i
0:05:23felt like i was watching the revolution
0:05:24man this guy that this guy was great i
0:05:26didn't know all the influences he had
0:05:29but I did know and now of course I know
0:05:31but how refreshing in and funny and
0:05:34Goofy he was um and that you had to
0:05:37watch that was great for him to have his
0:05:40own platform other than an occasional
0:05:41television special they had to give him
0:05:44something and so he did morning
0:05:46television as nobody has ever done
0:05:49morning television and the response to
0:05:52that I mean they cancelled him it as we
0:05:55all know NBC would because the
0:05:56housewives who made up the bulk of
0:05:59daytime TV viewing in 1980 did not get
0:06:03David Letterman but the rest of us who
0:06:04are on summer vacation that summer we
0:06:07flock to the show and when NBC announced
0:06:10that they were canceling him
0:06:11people flock to 30 rock to sit in the
0:06:15aisles even impose a fire hazard is as
0:06:18Letterman famously point out on one of
0:06:20his shows and be part of what they
0:06:22thought was television history by the
0:06:24time Letterman's morning showing off the
0:06:26air after about four months
0:06:28NBC knew he had something and the king
0:06:31of late night Johnny Carson just signed
0:06:32a new contract to give him control over
0:06:34what aired on NBC after his show went
0:06:37off the air so NBC cancelled Tom
0:06:39Snyder's tomorrow show and made space
0:06:41for a Carson produced talk show hosted
0:06:43by david letterman when he came back for
0:06:47good on februari first 1982 it was
0:06:50already established that he would be
0:06:53doing the anti Johnny Carson show what
0:06:56he had already done two morning
0:06:58television he was going to do too late
0:07:01night television and then some
0:07:03I'm making the anti Johnny Carson show
0:07:05wasn't just a good idea it was actually
0:07:07required the King had spoken the
0:07:09Letterman Show couldn't resemble the
0:07:11tonight show too closely
0:07:13Johnny Carson also have a very strong
0:07:15survival instinct and even though he
0:07:18would sometimes joke about you know he
0:07:20had those those jokes when his monologue
0:07:22was dying he had those those saver jokes
0:07:24and one of his more famous one was just
0:07:27walk off now and let Letterman take over
0:07:29the show Johnny despite
0:07:31kidding about it knew that he needed to
0:07:35step up his game and he needed also to
0:07:39protect his turf and in 1981 you're the
0:07:43king of late night what you mostly do is
0:07:45protect your turf so he dictated terms
0:07:47to David Letterman who although Dave
0:07:50adore johnny was put under some rather
0:07:53humiliating i think creative constraints
0:07:56the the first of which was he was not
0:07:58allowed to have a band of more than four
0:08:00members and he was not allowed to tell
0:08:02more than I think for jokes in his
0:08:04opening monologue and several other
0:08:07features that day would not be allowed
0:08:10to have on his show less it remind
0:08:13anybody of The Tonight Show Starring
0:08:15Johnny cars i remember i don't know what
0:08:17the specific contract said but i know
0:08:19that there was is that I think was a
0:08:21time length on the monologue this is
0:08:23john gruber writer of daring fireball
0:08:24with the monologue Dave just embraced it
0:08:27like the the monologue on I thinks
0:08:29people who are only familiar with the
0:08:30modern Letterman showed the late show
0:08:33with they went back and watched some of
0:08:36the eighties ones with us like me and
0:08:38you would be dying and just crying
0:08:40laughing and they would be like wait a
0:08:42minute that was the monologue like three
0:08:44stupid jokes one of them which didn't
0:08:47make any sense at all and David just
0:08:48turn it and show his ass to America and
0:08:50walk to his desk like three quick jokes
0:08:53and be out and it was just sort of like
0:08:55the way David's attitude was the time
0:08:57made it seem as though we are legally
0:08:59obligated to have a monologue but so
0:09:01here's here's your stupid monologue a
0:09:03comedy of those early shows was that a
0:09:04bunch of people who were aware of the
0:09:06rules of television simply couldn't or
0:09:08wouldn't follow them and would
0:09:10acknowledge that fact explicitly and i
0:09:13believe that was how they opened the
0:09:15morning show they had been Larry but
0:09:17Melman come on and say oh this week we
0:09:19don't know why we allowed this to happen
0:09:22please look away this is phillip michael
0:09:23who I've known since college where we
0:09:25both said and wrote a lot of things that
0:09:27tried to be funny and a little hot to
0:09:30the style of David Letterman because of
0:09:32Letterman I I you know started watching
0:09:34Ernie Kovacs reruns and again it even
0:09:39though that was a show that was on
0:09:40decades earlier it looked like something
0:09:42should not be allowed on television
0:09:44because if they would just do the the
0:09:46these ridiculous things and and then
0:09:50send them abruptly move on to something
0:09:51else and and I think I think there's a
0:09:54certain genre of a show that appeals to
0:09:57that that mindset Merrill marco who is
0:10:01his girlfriend and writer on the show
0:10:03said hallelujah i mean we're delighted
0:10:07to have these rules and restrictions
0:10:08because it means we don't have to do the
0:10:11Johnny Carson show means we were free to
0:10:13go off and turn everything on its head
0:10:15that's exactly what happened they may
0:10:17have already been heading in that
0:10:18direction the Carson's edict that the
0:10:20Letterman Show not resemble his show
0:10:21push them even further in the direction
0:10:24of making this absurd unshown a talk
0:10:27show that was a parody of itself
0:10:29anyone who grew up understanding the
0:10:31rules of television that even with
0:10:32comedy it was serious business to be
0:10:35undertaken by professionals would see
0:10:37Letterman Show and not quite understand
0:10:38what they were watching the man at the
0:10:40desk was an affable Midwestern a blazer
0:10:43tie and slacks but also tennis shoes and
0:10:46his show was demolishing what we all
0:10:48thought were the rules of american
0:10:50television it was a pretty slippery
0:10:53slope from 4-9 topical jokes in the
0:10:55monologue in a small band to Paul
0:10:57Shaffers rant storming out the door in
0:11:00and chris elliott coming out from behind
0:11:03the seats and Dave puttin on a suit of
0:11:05sponges and jumping in a giant bowl of
0:11:08rice krispies and so on
0:11:09he decided he would raid everybody
0:11:11else's talk show treasure chest first
0:11:14and foremost Steve Allen but but also
0:11:17you could definitely see Jack Paar and
0:11:20of course his hero regis philbin all
0:11:23wound up sort of on his stage because he
0:11:27was under strict orders to tend to not
0:11:29be Johnny and opened it worked out great
0:11:30for him it's a weird-sounding analogy
0:11:33but to me it makes a lot of senses to me
0:11:34Letterman is a lot like quentin
0:11:37tarantino in a way that Letterman to me
0:11:40clearly internalized all those rules of
0:11:43TV and he understood them specifically
0:11:45as TV like he is just young enough that
0:11:49he grew up with TV being the pervasive
0:11:52ubiquitous influence in American culture
0:11:54that it you know that
0:11:55has been for at least since the fifties
0:11:57whereas those rules of TV and like the
0:12:01rules that like The Tonight Show
0:12:02personified predate TV like the rules
0:12:05for a variety show or sort of the same
0:12:07as the rules for any kind of state show
0:12:09like you know the Bonneville or anything
0:12:12like that it's it's like a theater
0:12:15production right the tonight show is
0:12:17like it wouldn't be that different if it
0:12:20wasn't being televised and it was just a
0:12:22celebrity show that was put on for the
0:12:24300 people in the studio audience
0:12:26whereas what Letterman did was he
0:12:29understood all those rules and could
0:12:31just play with dance within the lines
0:12:33and to me that's like what Tarantino
0:12:34does with all of his genre movies where
0:12:36he's internalized all these movies and
0:12:39he makes his movies within the cracks of
0:12:41those lines now I don't want to
0:12:43overstate Letterman's influence here you
0:12:45can point to plenty of rule-breaking
0:12:46shows in the seventies and eighties
0:12:48Monty Python's Flying Circus and
0:12:49Saturday Night Live being two great
0:12:51examples but i'd argue what made the
0:12:53Letterman Show more shocking was that it
0:12:55didn't look like an anarchic
0:12:57sketch-comedy show it looks like a talk
0:12:59show we understood what talk shows were
0:13:01and this is what made it much more
0:13:03subversive David Letterman didn't invent
0:13:06irony and he he didn't even invented on
0:13:08television that that was what is an
0:13:10elder than the nineteen seventies what
0:13:11was different about Letterman was that
0:13:13he just made it so much more broadly
0:13:15humorous and and accessible even though
0:13:19he he famously you know didn't smile or
0:13:22laugh at his own jokes except the mock
0:13:24himself Letterman really was a lot
0:13:28easier to take then you know mr. Mike or
0:13:32or Eddie Murphy or any of the kind of
0:13:36edgy or comics that grace the saturday
0:13:39night live arena but but there's no
0:13:41doubt that the reception of SNL whose
0:13:44creator Lorne Michaels also never wanted
0:13:46to be like Johnny Carson's show that
0:13:50that really did set the stage for what
0:13:52he did
0:13:53india not co-writes about technology for
0:13:55the Chicago sun-times among other places
0:13:56and is one of the biggest david
0:13:59letterman fans I know it's been said
0:14:01very correctly that a lot of the things
0:14:04that he brought to late-night had been
0:14:06done by steve allen before the idea
0:14:08we're going to
0:14:08go on the street we're gonna do we're
0:14:10gonna be sooo teabags and dumped into a
0:14:13giant tank and make iced tea for
0:14:14everybody yes Steve Allen did that but
0:14:16the fact remains though that it's like
0:14:18looking at the the first Macintosh just
0:14:20like looking at the first iphone you can
0:14:21see here is what everything looked like
0:14:23to the before Letterman had a show and
0:14:26then here's what everything looked like
0:14:27after he had his first season uh late
0:14:30night with david letterman and then you
0:14:32can't say that they were that in 1983
0:14:341984 people were suddenly discovering
0:14:37steve allen and raping him
0:14:39it really was Letterman who brought this
0:14:41into a modern sensibility and I'm sure
0:14:44there's a lot of other things about
0:14:45going on a society of that time that
0:14:47sort of beg for a skeptical no jaundiced
0:14:50eye on things that were big in the
0:14:52seventies this is the reagan-era this
0:14:55was a factor era and so you're sort of
0:14:57promoting the idea of let's just go with
0:15:00the assumption that if if the previous
0:15:01generation thought that was the coolest
0:15:02thing ever
0:15:04maybe we can just sort of step back from
0:15:05it and tear apart a little bit but again
0:15:08everything changed after Letterman and
0:15:10it wasn't because of stood a delayed
0:15:12fuse on Steve Allen tonight show all
0:15:14right now I wish I could say that I got
0:15:16in on the ground floor of this one but I
0:15:17didn't I was nine years old when the
0:15:19morning shows on the air and 11-1 late
0:15:21night with david letterman premier now I
0:15:23have a distinct memory a first seeing
0:15:26late night in a hotel room in
0:15:27Pennsylvania we were there for my
0:15:28mother's 25th highschool reunion and my
0:15:31parents were downstairs the party late
0:15:32into the night I fell asleep i think
0:15:34with the hotel room TV on
0:15:36I woke up maybe when they were coming
0:15:37back from the party i don't know but
0:15:39there was this strange gap-toothed man
0:15:41who was definitely not Johnny Carson
0:15:44doing strange things on television I did
0:15:46not understand it it wasn't until about
0:15:48three years later maybe 1985 when I
0:15:51began to understand the appeal of David
0:15:53Letterman the thing is I have no clear
0:15:55memory of how i went from not
0:15:57understanding him to taping his show
0:15:58every single night but John Gruber story
0:16:01is probably not too far off from mine
0:16:03i'll tell you what i remember there is a
0:16:06very vivid memories of this so i was
0:16:09born in 1973 and at some point in the
0:16:13eighties there was a show hosted on it
0:16:17was on NBC and was hosted by admin man
0:16:19and Dick Clark
0:16:20it's like to clark and McMahon's
0:16:22bloopers and practical jokes and for
0:16:26whatever reason it you know it passed
0:16:28the test in my household and sisters two
0:16:30years younger than me and my mom were 33
0:16:32would watch TV together tonight because
0:16:34my dad worked third shift so and we all
0:16:36liked it and on this show they would
0:16:38occasionally have bits from late night
0:16:41with david letterman they would just
0:16:43like some of the remote bits that he did
0:16:45would they would just show them on to
0:16:47fill space on the the dick target at
0:16:49mcmahon show NBC had like an hour to
0:16:51fill and Dick Clark in a big man we're
0:16:53happy to do it and so they would fill it
0:16:55with Letterman bit sometimes not every
0:16:57week but every once in awhile they have
0:16:58a bit from the Letterman Show that would
0:17:00make sense at eight o'clock and they
0:17:02were the best things in my opinion and
0:17:05and part of what made it great was that
0:17:06Letterman himself wasn't anywhere near
0:17:08his famous he had his own 1230 talk show
0:17:10but he he could go out in public and not
0:17:12be mobbed and it was Letterman and a
0:17:14camera crew going around Manhattan to
0:17:17find diners and every one of these
0:17:20places had a sign in the window that
0:17:22said best coffee in New York it was just
0:17:24Letterman going in with a camera guy and
0:17:27telling them hey you know there's a
0:17:29place two doors down down the street and
0:17:31says best coffee in New York the
0:17:33reactions were all across the board like
0:17:35some people like to be like it just like
0:17:36an old Greek guy ran the place and be
0:17:38like no my coffee the best but he would
0:17:40be insistent like it wasn't just that he
0:17:42put the sign up just you know like
0:17:44instead of just saying hot coffee they
0:17:45all there was just a thing and Letterman
0:17:48made it hilarious and that is it made me
0:17:50want to desperately made me want to
0:17:52watch his 1230 show which has like an 11
0:17:57to 12 year old was sort of a stretch it
0:17:59would have had been after nineteen
0:18:01eighty-four cuz that's when we got a VCR
0:18:03in our house and um I had seen you know
0:18:07the clips the wacky stunts and the the
0:18:09thrill cam and monkey cam and and that
0:18:13that sort of jives with my my
0:18:15sensibility at the time and the first
0:18:18episode I remember taping I believe the
0:18:22stump that night was they were following
0:18:25the Australian Stock Exchange throughout
0:18:28the program and and and so there was
0:18:30this ticker of
0:18:31australian stocks uh like running
0:18:35throughout the program and occasionally
0:18:37Paul Shaffer they invested in the
0:18:39company and Paul Shaffer would
0:18:40occasionally scream oh god were ruined
0:18:43whenever the the price drops so I i
0:18:46remember that bit and you know that that
0:18:48worked for me I thought that was great
0:18:51those bits what was so effective about
0:18:54them of course was that a generation
0:18:56could claim them as their own right
0:18:57stupid pet tricks and Dave in the velcro
0:19:01suit and chris elliott and Biff
0:19:05Henderson and everybody Melman right and
0:19:08Larry bud melman handing out hot towels
0:19:11to arriving visitors at the Port
0:19:13Authority Bus Terminal and showing it
0:19:14amazingly bad microphone technique all I
0:19:17found so endearing it yeah how long have
0:19:21you been
0:19:23he was just priceless I must have seen
0:19:26it before this one episode that sticks
0:19:30out in my mind but the episode that
0:19:31really sticks out was the was one in
0:19:33which it's open the opening shot is of
0:19:36the audience leaving this leaving the
0:19:38studio and just a shot of letterman in
0:19:41his office saying that look it's that at
0:19:44the door of his office saying it's just
0:19:45too hot to do a regular show so we we've
0:19:48sent the audience home and they did the
0:19:50entire thing legit inside his office
0:19:52where Paul Shaffer had a little pistol
0:19:55casio keyboard work on his lap that is
0:19:58Terry car was the cast and yet he had
0:20:01her like basically older brother little
0:20:03sister berated her into like taking a
0:20:05shower
0:20:06you know even though like the shower
0:20:08doors had it in his office then cover up
0:20:10towels you can see anything she clearly
0:20:12was like not interested in doing that
0:20:14but was just so justjust attitude to
0:20:17stop talking about it but this was the
0:20:19one that really made me into a letterman
0:20:21fan just realizing that my god this is
0:20:25nothing like anything I had seen on any
0:20:28other show all kinds of respect for for
0:20:31the Carson show but it was a format that
0:20:35had been really locked in for at that it
0:20:38must be the early eighties mid 80 so
0:20:40this has been like at least two decades
0:20:41and they they don't tamper with that
0:20:43format the idea that you have
0:20:45talk show where they would do something
0:20:46as wild as this just got this block me
0:20:50into becoming a lifelong Letterman fan I
0:20:52remember the first time I actually
0:20:53watched late night with the actual show
0:20:55and it was a similar type situation
0:20:58right you know still wasn't allowed to
0:21:00stay up that late at home i was on a
0:21:02field trip to Washington DC and I was in
0:21:08sixth grade so I must have been like
0:21:10around 12 and you know like typical
0:21:13sixth-graders we were up we're wired you
0:21:15know wide awake and it got to be 1230 I
0:21:18think we're watching HBO I think well I
0:21:20actually i think i actually specifically
0:21:22remember the HBO movie we watched it was
0:21:25a chuck norris Vietnam movie i think it
0:21:28was missing in action it was an HBO
0:21:29movie it was rated R so it felt like we
0:21:32were already getting away with something
0:21:33in a bunch of sixth grade boys in a
0:21:35hotel room and then the the the movie
0:21:38was over and I realize holy shit it's
0:21:411230 we can watch shut the Letterman
0:21:43Show and I've always wanted to watch it
0:21:44and the show had already started it must
0:21:46have been about 10 minutes in and my
0:21:48friends bed net didn't even had never
0:21:50even heard of it
0:21:51they didn't even know what it was they
0:21:52they were you know more or less of the
0:21:54opinion that we should look for another
0:21:56Chuck Norris movie because we've got HBO
0:21:58right where it is hotel room with HBO so
0:22:00I flip to NBC and I remember exactly
0:22:03what was on it was a monkey cam they had
0:22:07a monkey strapped our camera strapped to
0:22:09a monkey and he was running around the
0:22:12studio and they were the footage was
0:22:14first person perspective from this
0:22:15monkey that they had set loose in the
0:22:17studio and I thought it was amazing i
0:22:21was like this is the type of stuff I
0:22:22thought would be on the show and my
0:22:23friends were like what the hell is this
0:22:25grouper we got it were turning this off
0:22:27and I no no and I thought it was and the
0:22:30only good get let me have like three or
0:22:32four minutes of it and then it would
0:22:33Dave they were like this makes no sense
0:22:35we're turning it off
0:22:36we're switching whatever it was a monkey
0:22:39camp first time they don't like I saw
0:22:41the monkey cam doesn't i was like oh my
0:22:43god that's not this gel yeah like this
0:22:46is great or or just like the idea that a
0:22:49grown man says you know what what if we
0:22:51dropped a bunch of stuff off a building
0:22:52let's just do it let's just shoot that
0:22:54you learned that there was stuff in the
0:22:56past but he was he really did become the
0:22:58map
0:22:58sir of the tapes segment and I think
0:23:01more so than anybody think he's you know
0:23:04if he wasn't the original idea for it
0:23:07he certainly was the person who who
0:23:09honed it and who mastered it and of
0:23:11course now that's all we think about
0:23:13with late night is that it's like the
0:23:14video bits that they're taped and then
0:23:16or not I guess sitting behind a desk or
0:23:20even like a Carson moment at the desk
0:23:21with karan tacker something like that
0:23:24it's all Letterman's tape this everybody
0:23:26does those now so that and to be there
0:23:28when that happens was great
0:23:30attaching a monkey to a camera and
0:23:32having it run through the studio keeps
0:23:34coming up I remember distinctly the
0:23:37first time to show try this it didn't
0:23:39work because they got a small monkey and
0:23:41the camera was too heavy to get a bigger
0:23:43monkey eventually ended up with a chimp
0:23:45named zippy anyway the comedy bits are
0:23:48definitely what linger in the memory an
0:23:50entire show done on an airplane
0:23:52cresselia its various characters the guy
0:23:54into the seats the suit of suet elevator
0:23:58races in 30 rock interrupting the live
0:24:01at five News set across the hall but the
0:24:03core of the show of any talk show the
0:24:06interviews
0:24:07those were subversive to in their own
0:24:09way you didn't suffer fools and that was
0:24:11really knew on late-night that's that
0:24:13that's the thing
0:24:15so to treat him to give you a look like
0:24:16you just being the idiot now right
0:24:19he would make people embarrassed if they
0:24:21did something embarrassed in their life
0:24:23he was like okay you're not going to
0:24:25actually walk onto my show and not
0:24:27pretend you didn't make this book where
0:24:30you know you're you're naked in it or
0:24:32whatever you know you you can't come
0:24:35here and pretend that this embarrassing
0:24:37thing that it's been in the news didn't
0:24:39happen i'm gonna ask you about it and I
0:24:40love that you know and so you know been
0:24:42Billy Idol kaymar came out and he was
0:24:44like doing this whole thing about how
0:24:47rock and roll in blood what he was and
0:24:49then let us look at them like you just
0:24:51absurd ass basically and then he says
0:24:54that he sees oh yeah drugs running and
0:24:56he's like your parents must be very
0:24:57proud
0:24:58it's just really pleasant person is like
0:25:00but you know i like that that you're the
0:25:02host of a late night show at that time
0:25:04you think when you hear they are to
0:25:05promote their movie or a book or
0:25:07whatever and he just wasn't having it
0:25:08so I'll
0:25:09that and it and it was just it felt like
0:25:11fresh anything can happen why are they
0:25:12allowing this to happen and then that
0:25:14that um uh really uh touches a button in
0:25:19the the teenage anarchist mind that yeah
0:25:22we're getting away with something here
0:25:24that that a guy can put on an
0:25:25alka-seltzer suit and and or or a Velcro
0:25:30suit and put that on TV and sometimes
0:25:33that even when the jokes fall flat is as
0:25:35they often get in the monologue it it
0:25:37had a whole of sense that someone had
0:25:40snuck into a studio and was doing a show
0:25:42and the network people didn't quite
0:25:46understand it again another great bit
0:25:50that I think really cemented that show
0:25:54with me was when GE bought NBC and and
0:25:57they brought the fruit basket and it
0:25:59just went disastrously with the with the
0:26:02GE handshake
0:26:03uh-huh so ya I i would agree with your
0:26:07theory that at a certain age you want to
0:26:10see TV that doesn't feel like it should
0:26:12be TV i think for people who are younger
0:26:15than me and therefore awful conan
0:26:18o'brien did that with the that the
0:26:21various bits that that we're kind of
0:26:23confusing to me because I was an old man
0:26:25by the time conan o'brien it is stride
0:26:27oh yes conan o'brien now that name
0:26:30brings up a couple of different areas in
0:26:32which NBC managed to cause intense drama
0:26:35in the programming of late-night
0:26:36television more about that moment after
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0:27:53friend your friend of yours is taking
0:27:55over here next May so you want to
0:27:58address this
0:27:59hello yang to address it's a it's a no
0:28:02I'm not angry I'm not angry at NBC about
0:28:06this night not angry at jay leno about
0:28:09this not not angry at you or the tonight
0:28:11show about this i mean realistically if
0:28:14it were not for you I wouldn't wouldn't
0:28:16have a show then you know I wouldn't
0:28:18have socks actually 43 and now even if
0:28:23the network and come to me and they say
0:28:24Dave would like you to have this show
0:28:26and then then a week later they said
0:28:29Dave we don't want you to have the show
0:28:31then you could be angry about right but
0:28:34I have a show if you do and an NBC can
0:28:38can do whatever they want with the show
0:28:39so i was i was never never angry now
0:28:42would I would I like to have the show
0:28:44whole sure
0:28:47Johnny Carson retired in 1992 and NBC
0:28:51have a choice to make
0:28:52jay leno had been Carson's permanent
0:28:54guest host for years but Letterman had
0:28:56been his host and waiting for a decade
0:28:59so who did NBC one on the air at
0:29:00eleven-thirty david letterman worshipped
0:29:03Johnny Carson The Tonight Show was his
0:29:05dream job and NBC chose the other guy
0:29:08the guy who would really come to
0:29:10prominence in large part to his
0:29:12appearances on Late Night with David
0:29:14Letterman he was this treasure this
0:29:18national treasure two millions of his
0:29:20fans who felt the insult of Dave's being
0:29:24turned down for The Tonight Show gig and
0:29:28it being given to the schmoll jay leno
0:29:30whose reputation had been just in the
0:29:34sewer until his good friend dave pull
0:29:37them up and said Jay I know you bombed
0:29:40hosting the Tonight Show for Johnny but
0:29:43here come on over and I'll have you do
0:29:46your wheel what's your beef on my show
0:29:48and and folks love you and Jay was so so
0:29:53grateful for this favor that Dave didn't
0:29:56he began stabbing him in the back
0:29:59I remember um liking window at one point
0:30:02when he was a regular guest on later use
0:30:05a good levy was a really good Letterman
0:30:07guests in fact I still um when my I
0:30:10still quote a thing from one of the the
0:30:13leno appearances whenever my wife lisa
0:30:18is is complaining about something all
0:30:20it's the so have we reached the what's
0:30:22your beef part of the program which is
0:30:24what he said to Solano and even when he
0:30:27was on the guest host on the the tonight
0:30:29show it was it was still pretty
0:30:31hey this is neat because it's it's
0:30:33someone who's young and has a has a has
0:30:36a worldview not unlike our own and and
0:30:39then he became the the the host through
0:30:42you know
0:30:43Makka nations we weren't privy to at the
0:30:46time but it just seemed some middle of
0:30:48the road and and and watered down and
0:30:52the end over the years you you just felt
0:30:55every last edge of
0:30:57take 10 being buffered off until he was
0:31:00a bowling ball basically i think the the
0:31:03transition from Carson Letterman would
0:31:05have been fine from Carson's point of
0:31:07view because I one gets the the
0:31:10impression from reading biographies to
0:31:13to the extent that Carson he had a yet
0:31:16more of a a bond with with Letterman i
0:31:18think but it would it's very hard to
0:31:22replace Carson and it's very hard to as
0:31:25Conan O'Brien found it's very hard to
0:31:27step into this 1130 time slot where
0:31:31you're entertaining my dad who has
0:31:35stayed awake through the evening news
0:31:36and just want something not terribly
0:31:39threatening or challenging to to come on
0:31:42the air now my feeling about which I'll
0:31:44say more in a minute is that we all
0:31:47dodged a bullet when NBC shows jay leno
0:31:48over David Letterman for the tonight
0:31:50show with Erin Barnhart pointed out to
0:31:52me that if we knew then what we know now
0:31:54about the composition of TV audiences
0:31:56things might have actually turned out
0:31:58much differently not just for Leno and
0:32:00Letterman but maybe even for Johnny
0:32:01Carson we don't know because
0:32:03demographics were not widely circulated
0:32:06in the nineteen eighties they're not
0:32:09even widely measured really until the
0:32:11nineteen nineties but the market
0:32:13research that NBC did internally showed
0:32:16that within a very short period of time
0:32:18younger people were preferring Letterman
0:32:21Carson and this was driving all kinds of
0:32:25advertising sales and really whether it
0:32:30was true in public or not there was a
0:32:33genuine business competition going on
0:32:36now between the 1130 and 1230 shows on
0:32:39NBC late-night and and this is the thing
0:32:41that people don't always think about but
0:32:44had that kind of demographic research
0:32:46been done in 1990 1991 1992 the time
0:32:52when Jay Leno and his manager Helen
0:32:56Kushnick we're making the big press for
0:32:58him to succeed Johnny Carson as the host
0:33:02of the tonight show what if Dave's camp
0:33:05had been able to point to those sheets
0:33:08of demographics and the news media had
0:33:11access to that kind of research showing
0:33:13that among 18 to 34 year old male
0:33:16viewers dave was beating the pants off a
0:33:19book Johnny and Jay how would late-night
0:33:22history have been different if if that
0:33:24kind of data that we now take for
0:33:27granted had been widely circulated that
0:33:31now but that's not how it went
0:33:33Letterman went to CBS which at the time
0:33:35was still looking its wounds from its
0:33:36attempt to launch the Pat Sajak show ya
0:33:38the guy from wheel of fortune against
0:33:40Johnny Carson I remember the front page
0:33:42of the newspaper the day that David
0:33:44Letterman announced he was making the
0:33:45move
0:33:46here's a picture of david letterman and
0:33:48behind him is the CBS logo the picture
0:33:50said it all the classy blackrock CBS I
0:33:54all in all an ivory yeah its iconic
0:33:57picture and it was a great triumph it
0:33:59was a great triumph for CBS it really
0:34:02change the fortunes of the network in
0:34:04hindsight I think it makes him it makes
0:34:07his career seemed more accomplished
0:34:08because he was the first person to
0:34:11successfully create a arrival to the
0:34:14tonight show when he moved to CBS he was
0:34:16going to an organization that
0:34:17desperately wanted him and was really
0:34:19eager to make make it very clear how
0:34:21much they wanted them wanted him more
0:34:23than that they were giving him ownership
0:34:25of the show so at no point could the
0:34:28network say we're doing it this way we
0:34:30say we want you to do it that way they
0:34:32can't fire him and replace them they can
0:34:33cancel the show but that's certainly
0:34:34something that the they certainly
0:34:36understood at the time to BS had nothing
0:34:38going on in late night and here came
0:34:40David Letterman with the chance to be a
0:34:41hero he could create an entirely new and
0:34:44hugely profitable business for CBS and
0:34:46do it while staying in New York
0:34:48continuing to play the underdog and
0:34:50righteously rage against NBC and all the
0:34:53while doing a version of his old show in
0:34:56a new place instead of trying to be
0:34:57Johnny Carson under the eyes of some NBC
0:35:00executives with questionable judgment
0:35:02and itchy trigger fingers
0:35:04well I a 1000% agree with that because
0:35:06look even when counting out the job it's
0:35:09like be careful what you wish for
0:35:10and he always wanted to be in that chair
0:35:12do you want to be in that chair yet
0:35:13because you have to
0:35:14there was only one Carson and then after
0:35:15that you had to be Leno and and you
0:35:18couldn't have any sharp edges there was
0:35:20no right angles and Letterman is alright
0:35:22giggles so it's like you're totally
0:35:24right he got to stay in New York where
0:35:25he belongs and he got to be bitter and
0:35:28he did his stuff his stuff where he was
0:35:31made fun of the NBC when he was on NBC
0:35:33was great and even when he went to CBS
0:35:34making fun of me bc was even better so I
0:35:37it definitely worked out for the best of
0:35:3944 late night I think and who knows how
0:35:42it would have worked on a long run but
0:35:43he's on the record i know as having said
0:35:46that if he had gotten the tonight show
0:35:48which he definitely wanted his plan was
0:35:50definitely did you know keep it was go
0:35:53out to burbank and more or less do the
0:35:58Tonight Show as it was no like he would
0:36:00just be taking over and doing it and you
0:36:03know and he had guest-hosted before and
0:36:06you know Jay Leno and guest I mean you
0:36:08know more or less jay leno just turned
0:36:10his weekly guest hosting gig into what
0:36:13he did and let me know Letterman plan to
0:36:15do the same as an institution that he
0:36:16just thought you couldn't you you
0:36:18couldn't mess with that letter was the
0:36:20perfect choice for the tonight show
0:36:21Jimmy Fallon also the perfect choice
0:36:23with tonight show because this is the
0:36:25comfort food part of the time show after
0:36:29after Carson it was never going to be
0:36:32the tonight show after that Jerry
0:36:34Seinfeld had a very very smart thing to
0:36:36say and I think Bill Carter second book
0:36:38about the second NBC late-night crisis
0:36:41saying that what none of us understood
0:36:44was that when Carson left the tonight
0:36:46show he took the tonight show with him
0:36:48and so this beat stop becoming an iconic
0:36:50show and started becoming the deliverer
0:36:53of ratings and the the golden arches
0:36:56that people would think of as a familiar
0:36:58and okay this is a safe place to stop
0:37:00from 1130-1230 to do really innovative
0:37:03stuff you're gonna have to go to comedy
0:37:04central going to go to CBS you even have
0:37:06to go to TBS because it's not going to
0:37:08happen that between eleven-thirty and
0:37:101230 at NBC now looking back I can see
0:37:14why NBC gave the tonight show to jay
0:37:16leno I really can
0:37:18Dave have an approach to television it
0:37:21was a gorilla approach there was a
0:37:24take-no-prisoners of quality to it and
0:37:28despite the fact that he always wanted
0:37:30to be the next Johnny Carson he was just
0:37:33never able to effectively suppress that
0:37:35it was
0:37:36really part of his humor it was part of
0:37:38his appeal and for better for worse it's
0:37:40it's what made him effective but it
0:37:45always meant that he wasn't going to get
0:37:47the NBC job and it probably didn't mean
0:37:49he was a better personality to launch a
0:37:53late-night talk-show franchise and
0:37:56another network which is a tremendous
0:37:59legacy for him at CBS as much as a
0:38:03letterman sort of true in wasn't doing
0:38:07quite the late-night stuff once you got
0:38:08the late show on CBS
0:38:10he was still doing odd and unusual
0:38:12things like will it float not on to
0:38:17where I i don't think that would have
0:38:19gone over like a led zep 144 the tonight
0:38:22show's audience of my parents who are
0:38:25easily confused
0:38:26yeah it's it's ridiculous we have no
0:38:28right to feel any sense of ownership
0:38:29about that but it did feel great to know
0:38:32that Letterman did not have to inherit
0:38:35his dad's show he was able to create his
0:38:39own business and his own business being
0:38:41incredibly successful in and of itself i
0:38:43think that I thought that was a great
0:38:44validation that Leno or jimmy fallon
0:38:48they really do need to have that name
0:38:51brand on their show they need to have
0:38:53that legacy in order to have a
0:38:55successful show they need to have that
0:38:56the power of that brand behind them
0:38:58whereas Letterman is his own brand
0:39:00he brings his own staff he brings its
0:39:02own sensibility as a nominal
0:39:05editor-in-chief of his entire show
0:39:07he takes his own sensibility with him
0:39:10it's hard even to imagine the the kind
0:39:13of excitement but but even then you know
0:39:15we were in a 40-channel world with cable
0:39:18TV but but most of what you saw on cable
0:39:20TV was reruns in fact the e-channel at
0:39:22that moment was on a nightly basis
0:39:25showing an old Letterman repeat from his
0:39:28from his NBC late-night days so there
0:39:31was still precious little original
0:39:34programming on TV especially in late
0:39:37night and so the idea that CBS was now
0:39:40going to also do a late night program
0:39:42and the David Letterman was going to be
0:39:44hosting I mean my god the world almost
0:39:47stopped on its axis for about an hour
0:39:49they're Letterman not getting the job
0:39:51and and going out and just being himself
0:39:53and being in New York that's when you
0:39:55you create your followers and that's
0:39:58when you he really showed that to true
0:40:01genius he was and it clearly rubbed off
0:40:03on so many so many other people for
0:40:05late-night to me of course there'll
0:40:07never be anything quite as exciting as
0:40:10as seen David Letterman take the stage
0:40:12for the first time it at CBS and
0:40:14transform that you know rundown old
0:40:17theater into it into a television shrine
0:40:20again and entertain America but but also
0:40:26entertain me to feel like almost like a
0:40:29victory or graduation or something that
0:40:30moment of like what we knew it all along
0:40:32and now here it is
0:40:33we knew it all along yes when David
0:40:36Letterman took over at CBS it really did
0:40:37feel like that David Letterman got the
0:40:391130 timeslot you got to keep doing his
0:40:41show instead of moving to California to
0:40:43stand in for Johnny Carson and the
0:40:45initial ratings were huge
0:40:47it felt like validation after all those
0:40:50years of cult status but the late show
0:40:52with david letterman wasn't late night
0:40:54it was something different something on
0:40:56a bigger stage literally and
0:40:58figuratively more about that after our
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0:42:51incompetent
0:42:52as some of you may know for the last
0:43:00year and a half I've kind of been
0:43:03interested in doing a show little
0:43:05earlier than the one I'm doing now and
0:43:07that reality has come to pass for today
0:43:10settlement dinner in New York City
0:43:16so we win David Letterman is the new
0:43:19king of late night jay leno is
0:43:20vanquished all those people who love the
0:43:22guy under the seats in the suit of
0:43:23alka-seltzer in the GE handshake and
0:43:25declare victory graduate from college
0:43:28and get a real job
0:43:30the end
0:43:32I'll but life goes on there's no such
0:43:34thing as the end of history Letterman's
0:43:36victory was just the start of two
0:43:38decades at CBS and the show was not the
0:43:41same similar but not the sentient being
0:43:44a big Broadway theater made Dave play
0:43:48big to play to the audience and in a way
0:43:52that the tiny little studio that late
0:43:54night was in in Rockefeller Center when
0:43:57he was on NBC let him play small and
0:44:00there is there's a definite difference
0:44:02in Dave's on-air persona both shows I
0:44:05mean he talks about it as being one show
0:44:07like and then when it and and in a sense
0:44:10it is it's like two halves to the show
0:44:12there's the half that was when it was a
0:44:141230 at NBC in a tiny little studio and
0:44:17then there's the modern half starting in
0:44:1893 where it's the flagship 1130 CBS show
0:44:22in a big theater and he definitely has
0:44:25his personality is the same but his
0:44:26persona is different because he has to
0:44:28have to play to the room I tend to think
0:44:31of a letterman show a bit like John does
0:44:33two halves of a career late night on one
0:44:35side the late show on the other but
0:44:37David Letterman's actually been doing
0:44:39the late show on CBS for 22 years late
0:44:41night with david levin was only on the
0:44:42air for 11
0:44:43that's a third of the total the CBS
0:44:46years account for two-thirds of the
0:44:47output which is why sometimes i think
0:44:49it's more accurate to think of
0:44:50Letterman's career in thirds the first
0:44:52third with the crazy innovative years at
0:44:54NBC then the first decade or so at CBS
0:44:57and finally the long slow fade now let's
0:45:01take that middle section
0:45:02it started with David number one in the
0:45:04ratings but a few years in the lady fell
0:45:06behind Jay Leno and really never caught
0:45:08back up i have a talk with Donald Meyer
0:45:12the NBC executive probably best known to
0:45:15people of this podcast is the guy who
0:45:16Yanks normal Donald off Weekend Update I
0:45:20asked him I said this was after Leno had
0:45:22taken back the lead in late night
0:45:24ratings from Letterman and I said how
0:45:27did you know it was Jay I mean how dave
0:45:32was dominating time period and here's
0:45:35what Meyer said we had done some polling
0:45:37and we found that the type of person who
0:45:39watches Johnny Carson typically watch
0:45:42four nights a week which means you know
0:45:44at that point
0:45:45they were watching Johnny and at least
0:45:47one guest host Jon never did more than
0:45:49three nights in a week
0:45:51the typical late-night viewer watch two
0:45:54nights a week and what all my er
0:45:57inferred from this was that Dave's
0:45:59personality was not sufficiently warm
0:46:03and relatable enough to engender nightly
0:46:08viewing that that his viewers other than
0:46:12superfans most viewers a little
0:46:15Letterman went a long way that was one
0:46:17of the data points he used in deciding
0:46:19that jay leno who by that point had
0:46:22really gotten himself back in the good
0:46:24graces of tonight show and had learned
0:46:26the routine would be the better host for
0:46:30the long haul because people would tune
0:46:32into a night after night after night and
0:46:35in fact what happened to daves ratings
0:46:38in the 24 months after he signed on to
0:46:42CBS kinda bored that out he rocketed to
0:46:47number one that first sweeps he did in
0:46:50November it was just off the charts and
0:46:53then he went to LA and Johnny Carson I
0:46:55think the news had already broken the
0:46:57Johnny Carson was going to make an
0:46:58appearance on that night show and he had
0:47:0110 million people watching 10 million
0:47:03people take you can't get 10 million
0:47:05people to watch a prime-time show these
0:47:07days it was off the charts and then it
0:47:12started to turn and there's still no one
0:47:17thing I can point to until about the
0:47:19spring of nineteen ninety-six he's
0:47:21already lost the lead in the ratings 22
0:47:24Leno and there's there's some comments
0:47:28about who's to blame for this
0:47:30this is a part of the lettermen story
0:47:31that we don't talk about much he lost
0:47:33the ratings lead the show lost something
0:47:35creatively Letterman himself talked
0:47:37about this in a recent interview with
0:47:38the new york times when he said and I'll
0:47:40quote before I felt pretty confident in
0:47:42what we were up to because there was no
0:47:44competition to speak up whatsoever in
0:47:46the beginning at CBS we came out of the
0:47:48shoot going a million miles an hour and
0:47:50then when that was all done we just sort
0:47:52of said really can we go a million miles
0:47:54an hour again and we tried and we
0:47:56couldn't I think we've gone way down the
0:47:58road
0:47:58maybe way down the wrong road I don't
0:48:01know that we ever did get back the right
0:48:02way
0:48:03it didn't start to settle down until it
0:48:04couldn't be more clear that Jay was the
0:48:06more popular show and when we all
0:48:08realize that there's not much we can do
0:48:09here you can't put toothpaste back in
0:48:11the tube then we started going our own
0:48:13way again I think it was just an
0:48:14inevitability the guy in the race who
0:48:16spends more time looking over his
0:48:18shoulder
0:48:18well that's the mistake for two years I
0:48:20made that mistake we ran out of steam
0:48:22day that they had a plan and they said
0:48:25in effect and and it didn't work
0:48:28one of their own Bernhardt's first major
0:48:30pieces was for the New York Observer
0:48:31about the Letterman Show and what was
0:48:33going wrong and what i did was i
0:48:35dissected an episode and you may recall
0:48:37I actually sat down and watched an
0:48:39episode with Rob Burnett in their studio
0:48:41the only time I've ever met Letterman he
0:48:43came in and shook my hand and we stared
0:48:47awkwardly to each other in any money
0:48:49left huh
0:48:50I had dreams like that it might
0:48:52literally literally I've had that dream
0:48:54it's literally go David Letterman well
0:48:56it all right it is it's it's not easy
0:49:00being David it's not easy being a fan of
0:49:02date but damn i sat down watched an
0:49:05episode and even there there are moments
0:49:07that you like David and new director of
0:49:10his longtime director hell gurney who
0:49:12would produce Jack Paar and finally
0:49:15retired and and so this guy Jerry fully
0:49:18had taken over Jerry had never really
0:49:20done a talk show and they were there are
0:49:22these epic tapings that audience members
0:49:26would talk about where David barkat
0:49:28Jerry and segments would be taped over
0:49:31and over and and even on the episode
0:49:34that i had asked Rob Burnett the hand
0:49:36pick that we sat down watched together
0:49:38there was evidence of tension between
0:49:39David the boot so anyway there was as it
0:49:41all came to a head this episode where
0:49:43it's some sketch involved a david
0:49:46letterman dummy to be made a life-size
0:49:48dummy and i forget what the sketch was
0:49:51but after the joke was over and he was
0:49:55supposed to move on to other jokes he
0:49:57turned around for no reason it took a
0:50:00baseball bat and hit the David Letterman
0:50:02dummy in the head and he kinda liked it
0:50:05so he kept hitting at first the audience
0:50:08laughs and then not so funny
0:50:12and this goes on for like half a minute
0:50:13and it's very awkward television but
0:50:17Dave clearly that self-loathing side
0:50:21could not be contained it came out it is
0:50:24never really gone back in that David
0:50:28Letterman that made a name for himself
0:50:30in the nineteen eighties turned out did
0:50:33not wear so well in the nineteen
0:50:35nineties and even though i think a lot
0:50:38of people came back to him and view them
0:50:41in a different way after his his heart
0:50:43surgery after some of the heartfelt
0:50:47monologues he made including this post
0:50:499-11 you know we all age so Dave's
0:50:53audience aged with him
0:50:55there's two moments from 9-11 that i
0:50:57remember vividly on TV I remember the
0:51:00morning of when it was happening live
0:51:02I've just remembered the telecast
0:51:04vividly it was just astounding and then
0:51:06the other thing i remember very
0:51:08specifically was the first Letterman
0:51:09episode afterwards I don't know if it
0:51:12was a week I don't know if it was two
0:51:13weeks I forget exactly when but within a
0:51:16week or two it came back on that you
0:51:17remember this remember how dope yeah oh
0:51:19yeah no music it was just silence and
0:51:22then Dave at his desk and any it he
0:51:26killed it right it was just amazing and
0:51:29it really it just gave me the sense like
0:51:32you know what we're gonna be alright
0:51:33which brings us to the last third of the
0:51:35story Letterman's not making headlines
0:51:37every day now he's not leading leno in
0:51:39the ratings NBC tries not to repeat its
0:51:41disastrous handling of the Letterman
0:51:43Leno thing and promises The Tonight Show
0:51:45did Conan O'Brien in the end this
0:51:47decision creates an even worse disaster
0:51:49as Conan replaces Leno and fairly soon
0:51:52thereafter leno replaces Conan all the
0:51:54while Letterman just keeps on cranking
0:51:56out shows the show's format this points
0:51:58locked in
0:51:59dave has open heart surgery but comes
0:52:01back someone plot to kidnap his young
0:52:03son it's revealed that over the decades
0:52:05has been having sex with young women on
0:52:06his staff the show just keep plowing on
0:52:09new starlets new politicians new rock
0:52:11bands just keep rolling on time flows on
0:52:15and on and we watch it all or at least
0:52:18some of us do not me as a die-hard fan
0:52:21during the first third of david
0:52:23letterman's career and a frequent viewer
0:52:24during the sec
0:52:25in a final act of Letterman's career has
0:52:27passed almost like background noise for
0:52:29me I might watch a few times a year
0:52:31that's all
0:52:33every night I have for as long as i can
0:52:36remember taped late show with david
0:52:39letterman and this morning was the first
0:52:42time in probably a year that I've
0:52:45actually sat down and watched an episode
0:52:47of late show with david letterman and
0:52:50the case of Carson as is the case with
0:52:53Letterman right now it would be silly if
0:52:56this person in late Middle it in middle
0:52:59age or late middle age where to try to
0:53:01reinvent himself when he that they've
0:53:03got a machine that works perfectly at
0:53:05this point had to bolt the rear spoiler
0:53:07and an afterburner onto it like and turn
0:53:09into something that looks like the
0:53:10Batmobile but doesn't run like the
0:53:12Batmobile that would be very very
0:53:13embarrassing occasionally all be up at
0:53:16that hour not watching sports if i'm up
0:53:19at that hour it's generally because i'm
0:53:20watching an old movie or i'm watching
0:53:22sports but i'll flip by CBS and CNN that
0:53:24it's dave letterman and you know it's
0:53:26it's I think were you and I are also not
0:53:30to be cranky old men but it's not what
0:53:32it was in the old days it's not it's not
0:53:35young risk-taking david letterman
0:53:38instead it's it's david letterman taking
0:53:40his victory lap so you cannot pretend
0:53:43that he's a forty-year-old or 35 year
0:53:46old guy know who is up-and-coming and
0:53:49wants to stick it to the man he is a
0:53:51multi multi-millionaire he is the man he
0:53:54is the man to end Johnny Carson was the
0:53:57man and Johnny Carson could get away
0:53:58with it a little bit more because he
0:53:59would do jokes about out his wife took
0:54:01them to the cleaners the divorce hearing
0:54:03or how he's playing tennis ER for all
0:54:06that and that was never really part of
0:54:08Letterman check i like the fact that
0:54:10they have just he and his staff have
0:54:13gently sort of shifted his role when he
0:54:16started off in that chair he was the
0:54:18person who i'm going to have the remote
0:54:19microphone i'm gonna try to deliver a
0:54:21basket of fruit to NBC executives and
0:54:22I'm gonna batter to the batter case i
0:54:24know they're gonna throw me a plan to
0:54:26get great shots of them being jerks and
0:54:28me being calm and me trying to just do
0:54:30something nice like deliver this basket
0:54:31of fruit now he's in exactly the
0:54:33opposite roll a lot of the humans they
0:54:35do is he's he's uncle grandpa
0:54:38in the middle of the stage and younger
0:54:40staffers come up and he has no clue
0:54:41what's going on you know and they can
0:54:43actually even like the parading him
0:54:45because he is the establishment figure
0:54:47and that's absolutely appropriate for
0:54:50him to be doing this kind of comedy at
0:54:52this at this stage in his life
0:54:55it's absolutely ridiculous for him to
0:54:56try to be hip because he is the
0:54:58establishment at this point you can
0:54:59pretend that he doesn't have tens of
0:55:01millions of dollars you can pretend that
0:55:03he is not both culturally and
0:55:05economically one of the most successful
0:55:07people who has ever done that job
0:55:09it's kind of ridiculous to want to have
0:55:12the exact same role in popular culture
0:55:14in your sixties that you had when you're
0:55:17in your thirties it is so much more
0:55:19satisfying to realize that I am I'm
0:55:22delivering something that people count
0:55:23on every single day
0:55:24it's not that I'm bring something fresh
0:55:26and new every single night it's that I'm
0:55:28delivering something that's absolutely
0:55:30reliable and that is the bedrock of
0:55:32simple craftsmanship and reliability
0:55:35Letterman is that level of refinement he
0:55:38can do more by simply stepping out and
0:55:40saying forwards then a lot of other
0:55:42late-night comedians can do with
0:55:43material they spent an entire week
0:55:45developing and rehearsing i will give
0:55:47him this Johnny Carson was square even
0:55:52when big portions of America thought he
0:55:54was hip or he was square America's idea
0:55:57of hip and david letterman his flavor
0:56:01lasted I think a lot longer than anyone
0:56:03including himself expected it to
0:56:05and then when he finally became
0:56:07hopelessly identified with dad
0:56:11by that time he felt like well he was
0:56:13just a good friend and and there were
0:56:16all these other choices that I could
0:56:18turn to and and so he just stuck around
0:56:20and it worked out okay for everybody not
0:56:24least of all david letterman so here's a
0:56:26true story from my life bear with me a
0:56:29few weeks ago my childhood home burned
0:56:31down nobody was hurt thank goodness but
0:56:33when people ask me how I felt about the
0:56:35loss i realized that i had more net
0:56:37place long before nearly 18 years ago my
0:56:40parents sold the place I grew up in this
0:56:42eighteen sixties era farmhouse and sort
0:56:44of barnes on 45 acres in the Northern
0:56:46California foothills they use the money
0:56:49to retire the people who bought it
0:56:50transformed it into one of the
0:56:52top wedding destinations in the region
0:56:54if not the country back to the old place
0:56:56twice maybe 10 years ago and again a
0:56:58couple years back had been completely
0:57:00transformed part of the outer portion of
0:57:02the house was unchanged the entire
0:57:04inside had been ripped out and replaced
0:57:05with guest rooms a new building had been
0:57:07grafted onto the side of the old one
0:57:09trees and shrubs over grew this lawn
0:57:11that I used to know every week
0:57:12my point is when place burned down no I
0:57:16felt sad for the people who owned the
0:57:17place and that the structure itself is
0:57:20now gone already mourned the house I
0:57:22grew up in it was gone the minute they
0:57:24ripped out the bedroom walls tore up the
0:57:26ugly linoleum in the kitchen stuck a
0:57:28pond in the backyard
0:57:30you can't go home again but you can get
0:57:32married there
0:57:33this is how i feel about this last week
0:57:35with david letterman he is meaningful to
0:57:37me his comedy and tone and sense of
0:57:39irony were immensely influential in my
0:57:41development as a writer and viewer and
0:57:43amateur joke teller and it's sad to
0:57:46think that he will be on the air anymore
0:57:47though he certainly has served his time
0:57:49and deserves a happy retirement but i
0:57:52don't watch the show anymore
0:57:54I've been watching the past few weeks
0:57:56for old times sake it's been a lot of
0:57:57fun but it's just a legend now a
0:58:00sentimental visit to a place that was
0:58:02once my home but is already gone
0:58:04I never stopped stopped watching
0:58:07watching Letterman and I'm actually
0:58:10starting not worried about what happens
0:58:12when he goes away but realizing that
0:58:14this has been a kid he's his show has
0:58:16been a constant in my entire life and
0:58:19it's always a little bit sad when a
0:58:20constant goes away even if it's you know
0:58:23that day that you know you sell your mom
0:58:25and dad's house because they're both
0:58:26gone and now you can you can no longer
0:58:28be going back to this address that has
0:58:30been a big part of your life all of your
0:58:32life or even if it's just that they
0:58:35stopped making a Brandis owed that you
0:58:37really like it's that you attach so much
0:58:39to these touchstones of your life that
0:58:41when something goes away you don't feel
0:58:43like you're lost but you realize it on
0:58:45me that's gonna be I'm gonna miss that i
0:58:46really miss that a lot
0:58:47he's always he's my guy so it's great to
0:58:50hear like Kimmel who I love come out
0:58:53flat out say look I'm in this business
0:58:54because of Letterman and Letterman was
0:58:56the best and the correct of course
0:58:58Kimmel famous for not letting leno have
0:59:02like do any of his hair just be friends
0:59:05thing let
0:59:05giggles have none of that in and in some
0:59:08ways he was more mad Atlanta than
0:59:09Letterman was was kind of funny
0:59:11Letterman grew up with three TV channels
0:59:13or five TV channels Johnny Carson grew
0:59:16up with just a couple TV channels he
0:59:18grew up mostly with radio and this
0:59:20generation of performers all grew up
0:59:23with television and they grew up with
0:59:25lots of television choices the closest
0:59:27analogue would probably be Jimmy Kimmel
0:59:29who did morning radio before he made his
0:59:32way over to television just as as David
0:59:34Letterman was a weatherman Indianapolis
0:59:36but i think david letterman will not
0:59:39happen again in the sense that his
0:59:41sensibilities are really formed around
0:59:45post-war America and the idea that
0:59:49television was this giant glowing
0:59:52presence in the center of the house that
0:59:54everybody gravitated to and what he did
0:59:59in the night
0:59:59in the night
1:00:00teen eighties was positively daring he
1:00:05split that Adam he said well actually
1:00:09there's going to be a late night talk
1:00:10show for mom and dad and then there's
1:00:12going to be one for the kids kids don't
1:00:14have to watch Johnny's monologue anymore
1:00:16i used to tape Johnny Carson's monologue
1:00:19on a cassette tape recorder and play it
1:00:22back later because that was considered
1:00:26the kind of hip asst funniest most
1:00:30topical comedy anywhere and now really
1:00:33going back to the dawn of the Internet
1:00:36era which was a time of great expansion
1:00:40and cable TV offerings this whole
1:00:42generation is just accustomed to you
1:00:45know laughs on demand and and so it Dave
1:00:49really is is like Johnny Carson in that
1:00:53he goes back to a time when all this
1:00:56entertainment was good was considered
1:00:58very very rare and and special and so it
1:01:05it commanded top dollar and the entire
1:01:08nation sometimes seem to be paying
1:01:11attention to what you said and nowadays
1:01:13people sit around and pray that their
1:01:15you know a joke that they tell goes
1:01:17viral or a bit on their show gets gets
1:01:21posted on social media so I i think with
1:01:25Dave going away
1:01:27you know it really is kind of the end of
1:01:29an era that started with steve allen and
1:01:33went through Jack Paar Johnny Carson and
1:01:36and david letterman say what you want
1:01:39about Carson and and like the rules you
1:01:41put Letterman under he wanted to always
1:01:43be the top he did he needed was you know
1:01:46its defensive enough and insecure enough
1:01:48that he would do little things to make
1:01:49sure nobody supplanted him but he let
1:01:52Gary Shandling and jay leno and joan
1:01:55rivers and david letterman host his show
1:01:58but he gave them this platform you know
1:02:01he gave this younger generation of
1:02:03would-be successors this platform and
1:02:05Letterman never did that for anybody
1:02:07like he never picked a 1230 post who was
1:02:10in any way a plausible replacement from
1:02:13self and he never did guest host and I
1:02:15always wondered that Letterman works too
1:02:17hard that five shows a week is too many
1:02:19and part of what made Carson seem fresh
1:02:21for so long as the only did three shows
1:02:23a week for 40 weeks here if there's
1:02:26anything i wish that i could have seen
1:02:28maybe them tried differently would maybe
1:02:30maybe starting like 10 years ago let
1:02:32somebody guest host every monday right
1:02:35there from the you know the ad sullivan
1:02:38theater and then have Letterman only do
1:02:40four shows a week in my career as a
1:02:43critic two of the best things I ever got
1:02:46well i got letters from david letterman
1:02:48and that that was amazing because the
1:02:51he's just he's just somebody who doesn't
1:02:52really do that often and it you know
1:02:56they came years apart and but they were
1:02:58both in response to something that i
1:02:59wrote about him one was really just an
1:03:02appreciation uh uh how talented he was
1:03:04and how great the show was and then that
1:03:06was early on and then the other one was
1:03:08a you know when people have certain
1:03:10forgot about him for a long time and and
1:03:13he still had many many years left and i
1:03:16did a thing like 8i I don't know why I
1:03:18like it
1:03:19everybody's talking about the new flavor
1:03:21whether it's Lana or whoever but here's
1:03:24here's the master and and I do this
1:03:26whole thing he really really appreciate
1:03:27it and sent me letters are both those
1:03:29actually Framed one of them from the
1:03:30first one because i was like what
1:03:31David's career is almost like a
1:03:33self-fulfilling prophecy he never
1:03:35thought that he was the equal of Johnny
1:03:37Carson he always thought that Johnny was
1:03:40always funnier better interviewer more
1:03:45urbane quicker minded smoother more
1:03:50gracious a talk show host than he could
1:03:53ever be and yet at the same time he
1:03:56wanted his job and so he has done
1:04:00everything where if it's possible for
1:04:03him to emulate Johnny he has done that
1:04:05and everything else he has done his own
1:04:08way and so now he's going to go out in
1:04:12his own way I can't remember you know
1:04:15like again I was I don't know 10 or 11
1:04:17when Letterman got on here so I mean
1:04:18anything anywhere even vaguely close to
1:04:21having a adult mind
1:04:23and awareness of American culture
1:04:25Letterman's been on it doesn't feel like
1:04:27America without him
1:04:28so what happens to David Letterman now
1:04:31like I said he's earned his retirement
1:04:33when Carson signed off in 92 one of the
1:04:36last things he said was he hoped the
1:04:38audience would welcome him back if you
1:04:40ever came back with a project that he
1:04:41thought they'd like he never came back
1:04:44cameos on the Letterman Show where the
1:04:46most that we ever got so is Dave going
1:04:49to emulate his idol one more time maybe
1:04:52but today is a very different media
1:04:56landscape then 1992 Jerry Seinfeld
1:04:59doesn't need to work but he was able to
1:05:01create his web series comedians in cars
1:05:04getting coffee and do it at his own pace
1:05:07so it wouldn't surprise me at all if we
1:05:10see Dave on the web somewhere doing
1:05:12stuff for the sheer fun of it with the
1:05:14burdens of 1130 and johnny carson and
1:05:18The Tonight Show and The Ed Sullivan
1:05:20Theater removed forever
1:05:23I'd love to see that but if all we get
1:05:27is the more than 6,000 episodes he's
1:05:30produced over 33 years i'll call it even
1:05:34thanks Dave from your pals
1:05:38for the complete interviews with indian
1:05:44taco Erin Barnhart John Gruber Philip
1:05:46Michaels and Tim Goodman go to the
1:05:48incomparable but calm / bonus track / 24
1:05:537 B we'll see you next week