The Talk Show

170: ‘Kicking Dirt on Them While They’re on Fire’, With Special Guest Ben Thompson


00:00:00   yeah hammering be one that was it [TS]

00:00:02   they're doing the like grinding like I [TS]

00:00:04   don't like a saw [TS]

00:00:05   it's like sanding or something and it's [TS]

00:00:07   funny because i was so actually this [TS]

00:00:10   podcast is going to have a different [TS]

00:00:11   character than usual because as his [TS]

00:00:14   listeners outdated vast usually when we [TS]

00:00:16   record it's it's I would say morning but [TS]

00:00:19   it's more like noon ish your time and [TS]

00:00:21   it's like middle of the night my time [TS]

00:00:23   and I am usually drinking scotch right [TS]

00:00:25   now but now it is it is morning my time [TS]

00:00:29   in an evening your time which means i'm [TS]

00:00:31   drinking coffee and sparkling water so [TS]

00:00:33   my character may be different but yes we [TS]

00:00:35   also have to put up with environmental [TS]

00:00:37   noise [TS]

00:00:37   they've been doing it for a while now [TS]

00:00:39   and I i think i have gotten used to it [TS]

00:00:42   so I don't even didn't even occur to me [TS]

00:00:44   until I said don't like oh crap ever had [TS]

00:00:46   this stupid construction going on so [TS]

00:00:47   many out that's a long-winded [TS]

00:00:49   introduction to if there is weird [TS]

00:00:50   grinding noises uh I I apologize because [TS]

00:00:53   it's not me it's the construction I to [TS]

00:00:57   drinking coffee in sparkling water [TS]

00:00:59   no you're gonna be up all night and [TS]

00:01:02   probably what I speaking of serenity [TS]

00:01:09   called why'd I have some follow-up here [TS]

00:01:11   forgot this last week I should've done [TS]

00:01:13   last week [TS]

00:01:15   serenity and I two episodes ago we're [TS]

00:01:16   talking about my inability to I all I [TS]

00:01:19   wanted to do it because i have a [TS]

00:01:20   brand-new 256 gigabyte iphone and one of [TS]

00:01:24   the things i wanted to do is just put [TS]

00:01:26   all of my music on it because my music [TS]

00:01:28   library is let's see if i can find it [TS]

00:01:32   here less than 250 621 gigabyte i have [TS]

00:01:36   4,000 songs 21 gigabyte so you know it's [TS]

00:01:40   not that big but you know big butt but [TS]

00:01:44   not not that big easily fits on 256 [TS]

00:01:48   gigabyte iphone and that way just put it [TS]

00:01:51   all over there and then I never have to [TS]

00:01:53   worry i get on an airplane [TS]

00:01:54   I can be out in the sticks I can I could [TS]

00:01:57   lose my sim card and I've got all my [TS]

00:01:59   music and there's that could for the [TS]

00:02:03   life of me couldn't figure out how to do [TS]

00:02:04   it because i'm also using iCloud music [TS]

00:02:09   library like if I will didn't use iCloud [TS]

00:02:11   music library I [TS]

00:02:12   could do it the old-fashioned way where [TS]

00:02:13   I just plug it into my mac by the [TS]

00:02:17   lightning cable and then you'd in itunes [TS]

00:02:20   go over to music and say sync everything [TS]

00:02:22   and then hit a button and you know wait [TS]

00:02:25   for it to be done and then boom there's [TS]

00:02:27   all my music you can't do that with [TS]

00:02:28   likely if you have icloud me music [TS]

00:02:30   library on when you go to music on your [TS]

00:02:32   Mac when it's connected it just says [TS]

00:02:34   you're using iCloud music library do it [TS]

00:02:37   all that way and serenity who knows a [TS]

00:02:40   lot more about this stuff than I do [TS]

00:02:42   because she actually like we're gonna [TS]

00:02:45   write all these like detailed how to she [TS]

00:02:47   was stumped too anyway long story short [TS]

00:02:49   the best way to do this and I've just [TS]

00:02:52   I've so far I've got a bunch of people [TS]

00:02:55   on Twitter Email whole bunch of people [TS]

00:02:57   have given me the solution i'll put a [TS]

00:02:59   link to it in the show notes it's but [TS]

00:03:02   long story short the way you can do this [TS]

00:03:04   the only workaround the best worker [TS]

00:03:06   anybody can think of is you create a [TS]

00:03:08   smart playlists that matches all music [TS]

00:03:12   let's see what my criteria are groups [TS]

00:03:17   started playing music here if I edit [TS]

00:03:22   smart i tried to double-click a smart [TS]

00:03:24   playlists to show the credentials here [TS]

00:03:26   if media kind are no match match music [TS]

00:03:32   for all of the following and I put size [TS]

00:03:35   is less than 300 megabytes so any audio [TS]

00:03:38   file any music file that's less than 300 [TS]

00:03:41   megabytes and it'll be matched by the [TS]

00:03:43   playlist and I said 300 megabytes I [TS]

00:03:46   don't even know why it's arbitrary [TS]

00:03:47   arbitrary number but i have a couple of [TS]

00:03:51   really big audio files that i do want to [TS]

00:03:53   sink to the iphone like I have the [TS]

00:03:55   area's been the criterion collection [TS]

00:03:58   Tommy's . James Bond directors [TS]

00:04:04   commentary [TS]

00:04:05   no I have not Merlin man turned turned [TS]

00:04:09   me on to these long time ago so when the [TS]

00:04:11   long story short when the first laser [TS]

00:04:15   discs of the criterion collection bond [TS]

00:04:19   movies came out like the the [TS]

00:04:23   the Connery arrow ones so you got like [TS]

00:04:26   you know Goldfinger and dr. no and from [TS]

00:04:29   russia with love the the commentaries [TS]

00:04:32   weren't approved by eon productions and [TS]

00:04:35   that's there's some really interesting [TS]

00:04:36   stuff on them like the editor I forget [TS]

00:04:41   his name but the guy who edited [TS]

00:04:42   Goldfinger more or less through the [TS]

00:04:47   director under the bus about some [TS]

00:04:49   totally mismatched shots and camera [TS]

00:04:52   angles that made it a disaster to put [TS]

00:04:54   together and once you hear him saying [TS]

00:04:56   you can see a hunt [TS]

00:04:57   Peter Hunt exactly who went on to direct [TS]

00:04:59   on her majesty's secret service which I [TS]

00:05:03   thought was a terrible movie but some [TS]

00:05:04   people love the fact that i was just [TS]

00:05:07   thinking that but that's neither here [TS]

00:05:09   nor there but but Peter Hunt really [TS]

00:05:11   throws that was the I forget who [TS]

00:05:13   directed that was it a guy hamilton who [TS]

00:05:15   directed the Goldfinger i'm looking it [TS]

00:05:19   up or maybe that was the first 1i [TS]

00:05:22   royalty is didn't guy allen alright so [TS]

00:05:24   you could always adopt him he throws him [TS]

00:05:26   under the bus about some mismatch [TS]

00:05:27   footage and it's that opening scene [TS]

00:05:29   where where bond is at the fountainbleau [TS]

00:05:33   down in Miami and Felix Leiter shows up [TS]

00:05:37   and everything get started but shot the [TS]

00:05:39   shot some of it outdoors at like a real [TS]

00:05:41   outdoor resort and some of it on a [TS]

00:05:42   soundstage and it was just a mismatch [TS]

00:05:45   anyway once Eon Productions got you know [TS]

00:05:48   you know they were like wow this is this [TS]

00:05:50   is really some fascinating [TS]

00:05:51   behind-the-scenes stuff when they listen [TS]

00:05:52   to it they they made the criterion [TS]

00:05:54   people pull it from like future editions [TS]

00:05:56   so anyway I've got copies of these [TS]

00:05:58   things as mp3 files they're almost [TS]

00:06:01   almost 300 megabytes and so that's why i [TS]

00:06:04   picked up but anyway long story short [TS]

00:06:05   make a playlist smart playlists that [TS]

00:06:07   will match all music then you go over to [TS]

00:06:09   your phone and you can go to the [TS]

00:06:11   playlist and then you can hit the cloud [TS]

00:06:13   button for that playlist which was which [TS]

00:06:15   means download all the songs on this [TS]

00:06:17   playlist but since the playlist matches [TS]

00:06:19   all of your songs [TS]

00:06:20   it will download all of your songs but [TS]

00:06:23   Apple seemingly goes way out of its way [TS]

00:06:25   to deliberately make that something that [TS]

00:06:28   you can't do like is when you go to the [TS]

00:06:31   without going to playlist if you just go [TS]

00:06:32   to all music there is no cloud button [TS]

00:06:34   yeah well I guess the question is [TS]

00:06:37   they deliberately go out of their way to [TS]

00:06:39   make it difficult or is it just general [TS]

00:06:42   the the general the moai's that is the [TS]

00:06:45   case with itunes apple music I think in [TS]

00:06:47   this case it's deliberate [TS]

00:06:48   I think they want you to support [TS]

00:06:50   admission or sin of omission yes I think [TS]

00:06:52   it's sort of like you're supposed but [TS]

00:06:53   it's very frustrating i think for people [TS]

00:06:54   like I I don't know every single you [TS]

00:06:57   every year when my wife gets a new [TS]

00:06:58   iphone there's a time where I I catch an [TS]

00:07:01   earful because she goes to the gym and [TS]

00:07:04   her iphone doesn't have any music on it [TS]

00:07:05   even though share last one did and then [TS]

00:07:08   she did a full backup and restore and [TS]

00:07:10   you know do everything you can to say [TS]

00:07:11   make my new iphone just like my last one [TS]

00:07:13   and then there isn't every year none of [TS]

00:07:16   our music and she's you know like at the [TS]

00:07:19   gym that she goes to there's no signal [TS]

00:07:20   you know you can't it's not like you can [TS]

00:07:22   download the stuff every year and I just [TS]

00:07:25   don't have that I don't think it's that [TS]

00:07:27   much to ask [TS]

00:07:28   yeah the the whole it's interesting I [TS]

00:07:31   haven't really thought about this a ton [TS]

00:07:34   but you know I use I streaming services [TS]

00:07:37   the various ones and it's funny because [TS]

00:07:39   I actually have its really frustrating I [TS]

00:07:41   i actually have a subscription to both [TS]

00:07:43   Spotify and Apple music and the reason [TS]

00:07:46   is that when i mentor thing we're [TS]

00:07:49   harvesting a little bit when i'm bored [TS]

00:07:50   him in the car [TS]

00:07:51   well drive with the kids like I was like [TS]

00:07:53   to request songs and so using Siri is is [TS]

00:07:56   obviously preferable when you're driving [TS]

00:07:58   and so it's worth it for that but then [TS]

00:08:01   like my stereo has like Spotify connect [TS]

00:08:03   which is which is really great like i [TS]

00:08:06   can place of my phone or whatever [TS]

00:08:07   interest in just playing on the stereo [TS]

00:08:08   it's not like it's kind of color [TS]

00:08:10   chromecast works where you control it [TS]

00:08:12   but it's not like streaming like airplay [TS]

00:08:14   which is it just it's a much better [TS]

00:08:16   model works much better at least at [TS]

00:08:17   least for me and now like the amazon has [TS]

00:08:21   come out their service that will plan [TS]

00:08:23   the echo we have we have an echo setup [TS]

00:08:24   arm and was like 'well it boy that be [TS]

00:08:28   convenient it doesn't Spotify as well so [TS]

00:08:30   it works but yet this this whole like [TS]

00:08:34   yes there's the allure of having all the [TS]

00:08:37   music and having access to it but and [TS]

00:08:40   there's like the upfront cost is much [TS]

00:08:42   lower but the cost at the back end like [TS]

00:08:44   actually playing your music there's all [TS]

00:08:46   these sort of hidden costs that are [TS]

00:08:48   there and it you don't [TS]

00:08:50   I'm i'm ok i'm paying it for it now like [TS]

00:08:54   quite literally but the it's really [TS]

00:08:57   really it's funny the music industry is [TS]

00:08:58   all about like yes they were of course [TS]

00:09:00   they're motivated to have their music [TS]

00:09:01   everywhere but they're reinforcing these [TS]

00:09:05   silos with with a sort of new model I [TS]

00:09:07   mean like if you have if you're not only [TS]

00:09:10   all apple if you're not only all [TS]

00:09:11   whatever service you're kind of stuck in [TS]

00:09:14   the middle it is very frustrating [TS]

00:09:16   yeah and i don't know i don't know how [TS]

00:09:18   much of it is related to the fact that [TS]

00:09:20   if you buy say a 32 gigabyte iphone you [TS]

00:09:23   don't want your 20 gigabyte library sink [TS]

00:09:25   over and yes they have the optimized [TS]

00:09:27   storage feature for that for music and [TS]

00:09:30   have it for the photos too but it [TS]

00:09:32   certainly would be very easy for [TS]

00:09:34   somebody with a 32-gigabyte device to to [TS]

00:09:37   you know run up against the limit and so [TS]

00:09:40   maybe that's why I don't know but it's [TS]

00:09:42   yeah that's a good point they probably [TS]

00:09:43   sell more of the of the the world across [TS]

00:09:46   phone then if you look at the average [TS]

00:09:47   selling prices that's it is waiting in [TS]

00:09:49   that direction [TS]

00:09:50   yeah and you know I i admit that i guess [TS]

00:09:54   the idea of I want all of my entire [TS]

00:09:55   music on my device all the time is sort [TS]

00:09:58   of an old-fashioned I'm still thinking [TS]

00:09:59   like it's the ipod hero but I i actually [TS]

00:10:02   find it useful [TS]

00:10:03   o Allah or at least every time I try [TS]

00:10:06   every time I fly if I want to get it [TS]

00:10:09   though it is i should do that now [TS]

00:10:12   because I I mom might my eye I realized [TS]

00:10:16   my big storage issue with phones and so [TS]

00:10:18   I got this the first time you've gotten [TS]

00:10:19   the absolute largest one I i think is 64 [TS]

00:10:22   previously and and it i bumped up [TS]

00:10:25   against the limits or or this over the [TS]

00:10:27   last year but my big culprit is his [TS]

00:10:29   podcast i think my the overcast app was [TS]

00:10:32   occupying like 16 gigabytes or something [TS]

00:10:34   like that something ridiculous because [TS]

00:10:36   all I call QA was that I want to listen [TS]

00:10:38   to our recommendations and i'll just be [TS]

00:10:40   sitting in there and who knows if Oliver [TS]

00:10:43   listen to them but yeah it you can just [TS]

00:10:45   that that's for me that's that's the big [TS]

00:10:47   culprit where I keep my stuff that but I [TS]

00:10:51   don't know it's we're talking before I [TS]

00:10:54   did there's there's still like these [TS]

00:10:57   these rough edges of the having [TS]

00:11:00   everything in the cloud is convenient [TS]

00:11:02   but but yeah there . is it [TS]

00:11:04   it's definitely one for me I travel a [TS]

00:11:05   lot and it's there's nothing more [TS]

00:11:07   frustrating than being in a a place [TS]

00:11:10   where you just you just can't get in [TS]

00:11:12   you're stuck [TS]

00:11:14   I've actually actually speaking of like [TS]

00:11:15   old-school itunes and ipod I got a so [TS]

00:11:19   this company called underwater audio [TS]

00:11:20   waterproofs uh ipod shuffles and they [TS]

00:11:24   said waterproof headphones so that you [TS]

00:11:26   can listen well while swimming which is [TS]

00:11:30   over it's up it's amazing like it did I [TS]

00:11:32   mean I've you know exercises are already [TS]

00:11:35   miserable enough but to be actually [TS]

00:11:36   listen to podcasts whatever we're doing [TS]

00:11:38   it is is great the problem is and it [TS]

00:11:41   took me awhile to figure this out is is [TS]

00:11:43   I what about your podcast on to the [TS]

00:11:45   shuffle which is already a pain to have [TS]

00:11:47   to go i used itunes and it's not synced [TS]

00:11:49   with overcast sort of stuff but I get [TS]

00:11:51   there into the pool and and i can't i'm [TS]

00:11:53   stuck on the first podcast and I can't [TS]

00:11:56   go to the next one you get the next [TS]

00:11:57   button on the ipod shuffle what would [TS]

00:11:58   you expect to happen you think would go [TS]

00:11:59   to the to the next track it doesn't it [TS]

00:12:02   turns out that with the last ipod [TS]

00:12:06   shuffle you have to use voiceover it [TS]

00:12:09   turns out voiceover doesn't work very [TS]

00:12:10   well when you're in the pool so in [TS]

00:12:12   there's no Mike idiot you can there's a [TS]

00:12:15   way around if I called down the [TS]

00:12:16   voice-over button and then the next but [TS]

00:12:18   in the next buttons work it [TS]

00:12:20   super-complicated makes no sense at all [TS]

00:12:22   but yeah anyways it's been it's been [TS]

00:12:24   really eye-opening but beyond that just [TS]

00:12:26   like having to use itunes again and [TS]

00:12:27   actually sink stuff like manually manage [TS]

00:12:30   things like you really appreciate this [TS]

00:12:32   idea that i can subscribe to podcasts [TS]

00:12:34   regular music and it's just there and [TS]

00:12:35   you don't have to think about it to [TS]

00:12:37   actually have like pre planned on going [TS]

00:12:39   to listen to its it's like man we we [TS]

00:12:41   live like savages for a long time huh a [TS]

00:12:46   good segue to my next bit of follow-up [TS]

00:12:51   now this is from last week's show I [TS]

00:12:53   always say last week even though it's [TS]

00:12:54   sort of like on a 10-day schedule but [TS]

00:12:56   the previous episode when that Ben not [TS]

00:12:58   bend your been at Matthew pants arena [TS]

00:13:02   was on and we were talking about the [TS]

00:13:04   airpot and about how the biggest minus [TS]

00:13:10   the only significant the only serious [TS]

00:13:12   minus about them to me is that they [TS]

00:13:14   don't have the little buttons for play [TS]

00:13:17   pause [TS]

00:13:17   and up down for volume and because it's [TS]

00:13:21   not so much the play/pause because they [TS]

00:13:22   the the whole idea where you just take [TS]

00:13:24   the one out and it pauses and you put it [TS]

00:13:26   back in and it plays works really really [TS]

00:13:29   well in almost every situation in fact [TS]

00:13:31   in some situations it works even better [TS]

00:13:33   than the button because for me a lot of [TS]

00:13:37   the times it's like if I've got them on [TS]

00:13:39   because i'm listening to something and [TS]

00:13:40   i'm in a store like grocery shopping and [TS]

00:13:43   then I get to the register i always like [TS]

00:13:46   to take my headphones out or at least [TS]

00:13:47   take one out so that I don't look like [TS]

00:13:49   I'm listening to something and so to [TS]

00:13:51   integrate the play/pause and the taking [TS]

00:13:54   out of a of a of it you know one of the [TS]

00:13:57   airport's it works great but what you [TS]

00:14:00   what I miss is like the next track [TS]

00:14:02   previous track like the shortcuts like [TS]

00:14:04   by double-clicking they used to be able [TS]

00:14:05   to do and I said that you can't use Siri [TS]

00:14:10   to change the volume so when you double [TS]

00:14:11   tap one of the air pods and say like [TS]

00:14:14   turn the volume up or turn the volume [TS]

00:14:17   down doesn't work you have to change the [TS]

00:14:19   volume either from your Apple watch if [TS]

00:14:21   you have one or by taking your getting [TS]

00:14:23   to your phone and using the volume [TS]

00:14:25   buttons on the phone turns out I was [TS]

00:14:26   wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong [TS]

00:14:29   you can definitely change the volume by [TS]

00:14:31   Cirie you can do next track previous [TS]

00:14:33   track I I did it the one time I tried it [TS]

00:14:36   i did try it and and I said turn the [TS]

00:14:39   volume up and I was outside that which [TS]

00:14:42   might have been the problem and serious [TS]

00:14:44   said I'm sorry I can't do that John and [TS]

00:14:47   I took that as meaning that she [TS]

00:14:48   completely understood what i asked but [TS]

00:14:51   was telling me that's I I can't do this [TS]

00:14:53   and this is you know we might get back [TS]

00:14:55   to this later about Syria it my fault it [TS]

00:14:58   really is my laziness that but I [TS]

00:15:01   interpreted that you know what I mean [TS]

00:15:02   like it wasn't like she said sorry I [TS]

00:15:05   didn't understand you [TS]

00:15:07   she said I'm sorry I can't do that John [TS]

00:15:08   and so I took it as meaning volume [TS]

00:15:11   control is something that was outside [TS]

00:15:12   the control of Syria turns out I was [TS]

00:15:14   completely wrong a couple people have [TS]

00:15:18   their pods correcting me on that now [TS]

00:15:19   obviously this is not many people have [TS]

00:15:21   their pods at the time but then I tried [TS]

00:15:24   it again and it does work you could say [TS]

00:15:26   volume up volume down [TS]

00:15:27   turn the volume up turn the volume down [TS]

00:15:29   next track go back a track previous [TS]

00:15:32   track [TS]

00:15:33   I don't have a full list of it but you [TS]

00:15:35   know there's synonyms that work like go [TS]

00:15:37   back a track in previous track are the [TS]

00:15:39   same thing those small world cup can you [TS]

00:15:42   can you do like this get 15 seconds [TS]

00:15:45   earth sort of thing I mean they like the [TS]

00:15:47   the headphones if you would like I can i [TS]

00:15:50   use overcast if you so Marc was it up if [TS]

00:15:53   you double-click like it will skip 30 [TS]

00:15:55   seconds you can set the the whatever [TS]

00:15:57   whatever length you want I I don't know [TS]

00:15:59   I don't know what happens in overcast I [TS]

00:16:01   suspect if I say next ride and try it I [TS]

00:16:03   suspect if I said next track and [TS]

00:16:04   overcast it would just go to the next [TS]

00:16:06   podcast I don't think yeah this is [TS]

00:16:08   interesting [TS]

00:16:09   I don't think you couldn't do you know i [TS]

00:16:10   mean i think i think with the clicker [TS]

00:16:12   Marco could have could look into it in a [TS]

00:16:14   way that I don't think Cirie would [TS]

00:16:16   enable but I well now we just have to [TS]

00:16:19   follow up all over the next one cast [TS]

00:16:21   aside next week a couple of people then [TS]

00:16:26   wrote and I don't think I don't think [TS]

00:16:27   Matthew and I talked about it but a [TS]

00:16:28   couple people said if you have like one [TS]

00:16:30   of the pains in the butt if you do have [TS]

00:16:32   the watch it's a little bit easier if [TS]

00:16:34   you need if you don't want to use it [TS]

00:16:35   serie to do it but you still have to [TS]

00:16:38   bring up like if you're in a workout [TS]

00:16:39   which is often the situation I'm in [TS]

00:16:41   where I do want to adjust the volume [TS]

00:16:42   like I'm out running and like it gets [TS]

00:16:46   noisy like if I'm running through a [TS]

00:16:48   noisier traffic neighborhood i want to [TS]

00:16:49   turn the volume up because i can't hear [TS]

00:16:51   any more on the watch you still have to [TS]

00:16:55   poke around a little bit to get to a [TS]

00:16:57   screen where you can adjust the volume [TS]

00:17:01   like you that you you know the easiest [TS]

00:17:02   way in my opinion is to just get to the [TS]

00:17:04   now playing glance which I keep is the [TS]

00:17:08   first glance so it's usually not you [TS]

00:17:10   know it's like one tap tap on the [TS]

00:17:11   sidebar then tap on now playing and then [TS]

00:17:14   once you're on now playing you can [TS]

00:17:15   actually change the volume by spinning [TS]

00:17:17   the crown which is really really nice [TS]

00:17:19   when your fingers are sweaty or [TS]

00:17:21   something like that you have to poke at [TS]

00:17:22   the little buttons on screen but it [TS]

00:17:24   would be kind of nice if you could [TS]

00:17:25   somehow set a preference so that if [TS]

00:17:27   there's music playing right now three or [TS]

00:17:29   either your phone or the watch that you [TS]

00:17:32   could use the crown from like the watch [TS]

00:17:35   face to change the volume because right [TS]

00:17:37   now the crown on the watch face does [TS]

00:17:38   nothing could be kind of nice if we [TS]

00:17:40   could change the volume [TS]

00:17:41   so when you when you spend the crown on [TS]

00:17:43   the watch face it does it doesn't longer [TS]

00:17:45   zoom into like that app you know [TS]

00:17:48   ok and watch os3 it does nothing and it [TS]

00:17:51   doesn't do they actually if you're on [TS]

00:17:53   the app you it does Jim you back towards [TS]

00:17:56   the watch face right but one you're on [TS]

00:17:59   the watch face what he used to do in [TS]

00:18:01   watch us to is it gave you the time time [TS]

00:18:03   travel or whatever they called it may be [TS]

00:18:07   well used to be that you would assume in [TS]

00:18:08   yeah i do it was funny because I i I've [TS]

00:18:10   observed people who are technical users [TS]

00:18:13   and that was for sure one of the things [TS]

00:18:15   that always gotten frustrated like I was [TS]

00:18:17   actually my god . who was used to use [TS]

00:18:20   wearing an Apple watch is asking about [TS]

00:18:21   it you know how you liked it and he [TS]

00:18:23   generally liked it but that was he like [TS]

00:18:25   that the fact that he's like it keeps [TS]

00:18:28   coming in and I don't know why like that [TS]

00:18:30   was the one thing that was driving a map [TS]

00:18:31   the wall so I didn't realize that they [TS]

00:18:33   have changed i guess im so accustomed to [TS]

00:18:35   not even touching it that that I didn't [TS]

00:18:37   notice but I think in general I would I [TS]

00:18:39   would be surprised if you know I clearly [TS]

00:18:42   i think we were were definitely an [TS]

00:18:45   agreement this like Apple there were [TS]

00:18:48   some unfortunate decisions that were [TS]

00:18:49   made about how to watch what should be [TS]

00:18:51   used in version one I think they kind of [TS]

00:18:53   they went too far down the road of [TS]

00:18:55   prescribing how people would use it [TS]

00:18:56   instead of waiting to understand how [TS]

00:18:58   people wanted you know what actually use [TS]

00:18:59   it and one of the casualties of that I [TS]

00:19:02   think was the functionality of the [TS]

00:19:03   buttons in general and so the acid [TS]

00:19:05   awakened in version one pressing that [TS]

00:19:07   button was like the whole contacts like [TS]

00:19:10   personal communication crap whatever [TS]

00:19:11   which is now completely gone but in [TS]

00:19:14   general I think there's still that sort [TS]

00:19:16   of it's not fully realize the potential [TS]

00:19:18   those buttons like that but the button [TS]

00:19:21   should be much more usable and I bet [TS]

00:19:23   over time become even more usable in [TS]

00:19:25   apps and same thing with the digital [TS]

00:19:26   crown like what you're talking about [TS]

00:19:28   makes perfect sense of music is playing [TS]

00:19:29   why shouldn't that be volume and [TS]

00:19:31   especially if they're gonna pursue this [TS]

00:19:34   focus of being health and fitness wear a [TS]

00:19:36   touchscreen that that's like the worst [TS]

00:19:38   possible scenario for a touchscreen and [TS]

00:19:41   it's an example of how the there they're [TS]

00:19:44   kind of the health and fitness focus is [TS]

00:19:47   a is was clearly not [TS]

00:19:51   what they're thinking about from day one [TS]

00:19:53   it was a part of it but it wasn't like [TS]

00:19:54   the thing that is for I think there's [TS]

00:19:56   things they would have done differently [TS]

00:19:57   and and one of those things would have [TS]

00:19:59   gone differently is how those buttons [TS]

00:20:01   are used and so I would imagine in like [TS]

00:20:03   watches for for example they're gonna [TS]

00:20:05   move even more to those buttons being [TS]

00:20:07   actual used in the crown being actually [TS]

00:20:09   usable controls right now if you're in a [TS]

00:20:13   workout you and you have you know the [TS]

00:20:16   workout thing is on your you know on [TS]

00:20:20   your better you see when you're you know [TS]

00:20:22   because you're doing a walk or run or [TS]

00:20:23   something when you spin the crown it [TS]

00:20:25   just changes the focus from the [TS]

00:20:27   different things on the screen like if [TS]

00:20:28   I'm trying and I'm doing a fake run [TS]

00:20:30   right now as I spin it down it goes from [TS]

00:20:33   the elapsed time to the active calories [TS]

00:20:35   to the Part B you know and just focus [TS]

00:20:37   changes focus i would i would find it [TS]

00:20:40   much more useful to have that change the [TS]

00:20:41   volume honestly but that's just me [TS]

00:20:45   yeah well I think idea and I want to [TS]

00:20:47   again this is one of those things where [TS]

00:20:48   they change so much and always three [TS]

00:20:50   they're really just fundamentally [TS]

00:20:51   changed how the operating system worked [TS]

00:20:54   and you're not going to get everything [TS]

00:20:55   in kind of one goal is just fine like I [TS]

00:20:57   think that's the that's the mistake i [TS]

00:20:59   think they made in version one like that [TS]

00:21:00   it was over it was over prescribed the [TS]

00:21:03   way you want to use it without really i [TS]

00:21:05   think having an understanding how people [TS]

00:21:07   would use this time you go back [TS]

00:21:08   did this is what made the the the first [TS]

00:21:12   phone in particular so you know so smart [TS]

00:21:15   is whether there's this classic story in [TS]

00:21:18   InDesign talk like i'm sure you've heard [TS]

00:21:20   a million times but out where there's [TS]

00:21:23   some school or whatever where they they [TS]

00:21:25   built up this whole new area of the [TS]

00:21:26   campus or something like that and [TS]

00:21:28   instead of putting in sidewalks then put [TS]

00:21:30   it like this really nice grass and then [TS]

00:21:32   they observed where the grass got worn [TS]

00:21:34   down and then they put sidewalks there [TS]

00:21:36   and like that'sthat's just stay there [TS]

00:21:39   and you can see there's other examples [TS]

00:21:41   where there's like a path and right next [TS]

00:21:43   to it there's like worn-down grass [TS]

00:21:44   because people are taking like little [TS]

00:21:45   shortcuts and stuff like that and with [TS]

00:21:48   the phone in particular Apple really [TS]

00:21:50   took sort of the grass approach where [TS]

00:21:53   they got the basics there they got a [TS]

00:21:55   browser they got a phone they got ipod [TS]

00:21:57   and then the last breast of it was [TS]

00:21:58   really you know that . where folks like [TS]

00:22:02   you know Craig Hockenberry whatever [TS]

00:22:03   we're figuring out the API and we're [TS]

00:22:05   building you know side-loaded [TS]

00:22:07   applications i think was really valuable [TS]

00:22:09   to to help Apple really understand what [TS]

00:22:13   needed to be built it and how they [TS]

00:22:15   should go about you know opening up the [TS]

00:22:17   API and what things might be possible [TS]

00:22:19   and that's the exact opposite process [TS]

00:22:22   they did with the watch like the watch [TS]

00:22:23   that it was it was they did too much [TS]

00:22:26   there wasn't enough of a sort of open [TS]

00:22:28   canvas to figure out what works and what [TS]

00:22:31   doesn't and now they're having to kind [TS]

00:22:33   of unwind what they did before and [TS]

00:22:35   thatthat's just going to take time I [TS]

00:22:37   don't know if that that story is [TS]

00:22:38   apocryphal or not the story about the [TS]

00:22:40   pads on campus but I remember it's great [TS]

00:22:43   story though it's a great story and it's [TS]

00:22:45   there's a truth to it because i remember [TS]

00:22:46   a truck soul when i was there in the [TS]

00:22:48   late nineties there were definite dirt [TS]

00:22:51   paths through grass you know that word [TS]

00:22:54   they're obviously there forever that [TS]

00:22:57   clearly they should have you remember [TS]

00:22:58   when i first heard that story I thought [TS]

00:23:00   specifically about certain areas if [TS]

00:23:05   anybody went two directions then I don't [TS]

00:23:07   know if they even called the campus at [TS]

00:23:09   drexel has changed so much since i went [TS]

00:23:10   there but we used to be you know we [TS]

00:23:12   called it the quad the section off a [TS]

00:23:15   market street there definitely was a [TS]

00:23:20   mean it couldn't have been more exactly [TS]

00:23:22   like that story like here's a plate you [TS]

00:23:24   know you're supposed to walk all the way [TS]

00:23:26   over there and go around this building [TS]

00:23:27   and everybody just cut through right [TS]

00:23:29   here [TS]

00:23:30   I can't think of two examples in Apple's [TS]

00:23:32   history where the apples done that and [TS]

00:23:34   but they're both like classic met you [TS]

00:23:36   remember the classic mac OS you didn't [TS]

00:23:37   use the mac back then did you [TS]

00:23:39   I I do remember it i denied but [TS]

00:23:41   goodnight and two things I can think of [TS]

00:23:43   would be command tab where that was that [TS]

00:23:46   was a windows invention or you'd hit [TS]

00:23:49   command tab and originally in command [TS]

00:23:52   tab in Windows you would just cycle [TS]

00:23:54   through apps in most recently used order [TS]

00:23:57   and it was you know obviously windows [TS]

00:24:01   users took to it but then we're we're [TS]

00:24:03   really became a good interface was when [TS]

00:24:06   they put up the heads-up display that [TS]

00:24:08   showed you where you know all of your [TS]

00:24:11   apps in most recent order so you could [TS]

00:24:14   see [TS]

00:24:14   oh I need to go for to get 2x [TS]

00:24:17   well you know right actually see it used [TS]

00:24:19   to not have that heads-up display it [TS]

00:24:21   would just switch through the apps you [TS]

00:24:23   know and you'd find out what chapter [TS]

00:24:24   you're getting to each time you hit tab [TS]

00:24:26   and it became a thing where they were i [TS]

00:24:30   don't know three or four competing [TS]

00:24:31   third-party utilities for mac OS that [TS]

00:24:35   did the exact same thing and everybody [TS]

00:24:37   had one of them installed [TS]

00:24:38   I mean it was the I i don't think i dont [TS]

00:24:40   it was one of those things where I don't [TS]

00:24:41   know anybody who didn't and eventually [TS]

00:24:43   Apple acquiesced I don't know which [TS]

00:24:45   version of mac OS it was but they added [TS]

00:24:50   it as a as a system-level thing and I [TS]

00:24:52   think they've delayed on it because I [TS]

00:24:54   think there was a sort of reluctance to [TS]

00:24:56   add anything that came to windows first [TS]

00:24:58   to the mac it you have probably and any [TS]

00:25:02   other like the other one I could think [TS]

00:25:03   of was the old Apple menu used to just [TS]

00:25:07   be a rich in the original mac OS the [TS]

00:25:09   Apple menu had i think it's i think it [TS]

00:25:14   has still had like about they had the [TS]

00:25:17   about for like whatever happier in like [TS]

00:25:19   about this app would be like the first [TS]

00:25:20   item in the Apple menu and then the rest [TS]

00:25:25   of it was just a list of your desk [TS]

00:25:27   accessories which were like the little [TS]

00:25:30   in this is for super old is like going [TS]

00:25:32   back to the eighties back west which [TS]

00:25:33   were the little love in das terms what [TS]

00:25:36   they used to call them tossed a little [TS]

00:25:37   in a way to get multitasking like little [TS]

00:25:43   in-app with a resident in Resident I [TS]

00:25:45   have no I I got nothing for you haha [TS]

00:25:47   well I think of it but anyway desk [TS]

00:25:50   accessories were little things that ran [TS]

00:25:52   within the memory of dick app itself so [TS]

00:25:55   that the calculator and the there was a [TS]

00:25:58   thing called the scrapbook which is sort [TS]

00:26:00   of like a clipboard history so you can [TS]

00:26:02   keep like little snippets attacks and [TS]

00:26:04   third-party utilities came up that made [TS]

00:26:06   the Apple menu way more useful see that [TS]

00:26:08   you could put like an alias to your hard [TS]

00:26:10   drive in there so you can just go to the [TS]

00:26:11   apple menu go down to your hard drive [TS]

00:26:13   and get a hierarchical list of every [TS]

00:26:15   folder you know so you wouldn't have to [TS]

00:26:17   go to the finder and go to your hard [TS]

00:26:19   drive and double-click on a folder and [TS]

00:26:20   double-click on a folder and [TS]

00:26:22   double-click you just go to your Apple [TS]

00:26:23   menu go to your hard drive [TS]

00:26:25   go to applications go to utilities and [TS]

00:26:29   then launched that [TS]

00:26:30   up from that folder that you wanted to [TS]

00:26:31   or wherever you wanted to go but you [TS]

00:26:33   instead of leaving a whole history of [TS]

00:26:34   windows behind of each folder you want [TS]

00:26:36   to you too it's just a hierarchical go [TS]

00:26:38   list of menu and then event in everybody [TS]

00:26:41   and that was another one of those things [TS]

00:26:42   where everybody had one of these [TS]

00:26:43   utilities and the one that I used was [TS]

00:26:46   called now menus . it's really going [TS]

00:26:48   back but eventually Apple added that to [TS]

00:26:50   the system as well it was a gay if [TS]

00:26:52   everybody's got this you should get it [TS]

00:26:53   ought to be part of the system yet the [TS]

00:26:56   only it's funny the only the two add-ons [TS]

00:26:59   that I still depend on now is one is is [TS]

00:27:03   from windows and it because when i use [TS]

00:27:05   Windows I'd like there's shortcuts to [TS]

00:27:08   manage to move your windows around so [TS]

00:27:10   you can like snap your windows just one [TS]

00:27:11   side of the one side of the desktop or [TS]

00:27:13   to another or things like in do all [TS]

00:27:14   kinds of things so once i have one of [TS]

00:27:17   those on the mac and i use one called [TS]

00:27:19   better snap tool but it that's amazing [TS]

00:27:21   but that's super nice about Apple will [TS]

00:27:23   ever had that but the other thing and [TS]

00:27:26   it's funny because this is it for this [TS]

00:27:29   is arguably the single thing that keeps [TS]

00:27:31   me using a backhand serve like a of a [TS]

00:27:34   Chromebook or or and I pottery thing is [TS]

00:27:38   a clipboard manager it like it's [TS]

00:27:40   unbelievable how often I use something [TS]

00:27:43   like that and how much more powerful [TS]

00:27:45   that makes that makes using using a [TS]

00:27:48   computer but again I guess they buried [TS]

00:27:50   to those are pretty nice that they [TS]

00:27:51   already used all the taking up all the [TS]

00:27:53   all the wall hanging fruit and which [TS]

00:27:55   clipboard manager duties is one called [TS]

00:27:58   copy and paste use lon [TS]

00:28:01   yeah use launch bar but watch for had [TS]

00:28:02   this weird bug where it would just it [TS]

00:28:05   won't work after a while and they [TS]

00:28:07   eventually fixed it after it was around [TS]

00:28:08   for years and people complain about the [TS]

00:28:10   kept saying was apple's fault like every [TS]

00:28:12   other over the government have a problem [TS]

00:28:13   but yes I used uh I don't remember why I [TS]

00:28:16   got it I i mean i got it for when I [TS]

00:28:20   would need a replacement most so there's [TS]

00:28:22   a good review somewhere but I've see no [TS]

00:28:24   reason to switch works well for me you [TS]

00:28:26   get it keeps a bunch in there you can do [TS]

00:28:27   stuff like if you if you've copied stuff [TS]

00:28:30   you can paste as plain text super easily [TS]

00:28:32   you can make everything all capitals or [TS]

00:28:33   take away all the capitals like it it [TS]

00:28:35   was like text transformation on stuff as [TS]

00:28:37   well if you need so yeah but there's a [TS]

00:28:39   bunch of them out there i think they're [TS]

00:28:40   all pretty good [TS]

00:28:41   the ones i've used our launch bars [TS]

00:28:44   built-in one which I kind of don't like [TS]

00:28:46   the display of but it is actually what [TS]

00:28:49   i'm using right now [TS]

00:28:52   keyboard maestro your keyboard maestro [TS]

00:28:55   yeah I've heard of it I I i can if i [TS]

00:28:57   tried it by boy i strode does so much [TS]

00:28:59   stuff keyboard maestro is a great [TS]

00:29:01   utility it's you could you make record [TS]

00:29:03   macros that do all sorts of things [TS]

00:29:05   really just sort of automated you know [TS]

00:29:07   multi-step you can automate the whole [TS]

00:29:09   GUI really but it also is sort of you [TS]

00:29:13   can if you want to act as like [TS]

00:29:14   TextExpander where you type you know [TS]

00:29:17   TLA and it expands to three letter [TS]

00:29:19   acronym or somethin like that and it has [TS]

00:29:21   a clipboard history keyboard maestro his [TS]

00:29:24   clipboard history is searchable which is [TS]

00:29:26   actually kinda neat and keyboard my [TS]

00:29:28   school's out [TS]

00:29:28   that's the i would be awesome keyboard [TS]

00:29:30   maestro has a heuristic that looks for [TS]

00:29:33   things that look like a password and I [TS]

00:29:36   and bullets them out so and like I think [TS]

00:29:39   only keep some as forget what else it [TS]

00:29:42   does it for that if it's just a visual [TS]

00:29:43   thing or if it if it only lets you copy [TS]

00:29:47   you know actually paste it when it's the [TS]

00:29:48   topmost thing but whatever it does it's [TS]

00:29:51   actually never never want someone who [TS]

00:29:53   did the wrong thing for me like the [TS]

00:29:55   heuristic is so smart about it that it [TS]

00:29:58   however it is that it works it's so [TS]

00:30:00   smart about about identifying things [TS]

00:30:03   that look like wow that looks like a [TS]

00:30:04   week you know like at a password that [TS]

00:30:08   that somebody would make up for that [TS]

00:30:09   like a password utility would make up [TS]

00:30:11   that doesn't get exposed and then one [TS]

00:30:13   that's most recent which i've used by [TS]

00:30:15   using beta but I it hasn't stuck with me [TS]

00:30:18   is pay spot from the tweet but guys [TS]

00:30:20   yeah I I the the searchable one it would [TS]

00:30:24   be super valuable I think good because [TS]

00:30:26   when i do the daily updates particular [TS]

00:30:28   where those usually have more quotes and [TS]

00:30:31   links then then my weekly articles do [TS]

00:30:33   like I will accumulate the ton of weeks [TS]

00:30:37   in the process of writing just one of [TS]

00:30:38   them and yes sometimes particularly if I [TS]

00:30:41   want to look something up like I write [TS]

00:30:42   about something that i forgot excited of [TS]

00:30:44   having like I will end up like well over [TS]

00:30:47   a hundred times every single day after [TS]

00:30:48   I'm finished writing these it's which is [TS]

00:30:50   ridiculous i have food fight it's easier [TS]

00:30:52   to just this is how you get a bunch of [TS]

00:30:54   tabs [TS]

00:30:55   instead of going through my tabs and [TS]

00:30:56   find the article i'm looking for his [TS]

00:30:58   open a new window and go to my clipboard [TS]

00:31:00   manager and I know the links in there we [TS]

00:31:02   can I i just used it but if I can search [TS]

00:31:04   that would make it even better at yeah [TS]

00:31:06   it's I it's funny the weird things that [TS]

00:31:09   you end up doing that are just make no [TS]

00:31:11   sense at all but you fall into these [TS]

00:31:12   patterns so alright i will put links to [TS]

00:31:14   all of those absent in the shop that's [TS]

00:31:17   where AI and for the record I i think [TS]

00:31:21   this is why I don't know six or seven [TS]

00:31:23   time on here and I got a message i woke [TS]

00:31:26   up to a message from you including notes [TS]

00:31:28   notes for the podcast i was very [TS]

00:31:30   impressed i think that that is a first [TS]

00:31:31   so for the record uh the talk show is [TS]

00:31:35   getting ever more organized [TS]

00:31:37   uh chuckles deal we're doing it's the [TS]

00:31:39   same thing we talked about it on with [TS]

00:31:41   the pantry and last we're using the [TS]

00:31:44   iCloud shared notes which is actually [TS]

00:31:46   pretty pretty useful it is except that [TS]

00:31:50   the only way I ever forever and maybe [TS]

00:31:53   except i'm not i'm not in Syria I don't [TS]

00:31:55   update my mac for usually a couple [TS]

00:31:56   months after after the update arm but [TS]

00:31:59   the idea doesn't sync to my icloud on [TS]

00:32:01   the mac right Pete but that might be [TS]

00:32:04   just going on the current version but it [TS]

00:32:06   reminds me of like the one of the the [TS]

00:32:08   irritations I have with like Apple uh [TS]

00:32:11   like when they do web app so i have it [TS]

00:32:14   open in the browser now because that [TS]

00:32:15   that obviously sinks but i think that [TS]

00:32:17   the reason why would Apple web apps like [TS]

00:32:21   try to mimic like desktop apps but that [TS]

00:32:25   makes them frustrating to use because [TS]

00:32:27   you know doing something browser isn't [TS]

00:32:29   as efficient or faster as good of a new [TS]

00:32:32   user experiences using a native app [TS]

00:32:34   without question [TS]

00:32:35   whereas there are some web apps that I [TS]

00:32:37   use like I do all my writing a web app [TS]

00:32:39   11 called draft draft in common is [TS]

00:32:42   awesome but it's it's it's a web-like it [TS]

00:32:46   embraces it being a web app and you [TS]

00:32:49   gettin that's the case for all sorts of [TS]

00:32:51   products like if you embrace the medium [TS]

00:32:53   that you're on the user experience can [TS]

00:32:55   be really great but if you're trying to [TS]

00:32:57   like mimic one that's from somewhere [TS]

00:32:59   else it's it's not not nearly as good [TS]

00:33:01   anyhow that that is just sort of a [TS]

00:33:03   random sort of observations and I would [TS]

00:33:05   that is the first time i've used the [TS]

00:33:07   these [TS]

00:33:08   thinking or sharing no thing for notes [TS]

00:33:11   so it's weird i've been doing it for a [TS]

00:33:13   couple episodes now but I've been [TS]

00:33:14   running I'm like you I'm very reluctant [TS]

00:33:17   then and it's always seems like I've got [TS]

00:33:19   something open i don't want to restart [TS]

00:33:20   even just restart the machine i still [TS]

00:33:22   haven't updated my imac to Sierra so and [TS]

00:33:25   that's where I record from so i have it [TS]

00:33:27   on my phone and the phone has the new [TS]

00:33:30   fancy new share this note with somebody [TS]

00:33:32   and get the changes sync feature but my [TS]

00:33:35   max version doesn't so and then you had [TS]

00:33:37   the idea to to use the iCloud web app [TS]

00:33:40   which never even occurred to me because [TS]

00:33:42   i never used [TS]

00:33:43   I never use the iCloud web apps for [TS]

00:33:44   anything other than find my iphone [TS]

00:33:46   alright but it's weird too because it it [TS]

00:33:50   does try to mimic a desktop app but but [TS]

00:33:53   it's it's not it doesn't look anything [TS]

00:33:58   like the matter the mac version and it [TS]

00:34:00   doesn't look like the ipad version [TS]

00:34:02   either it's like this it it it does look [TS]

00:34:06   like a desktop app but it doesn't look [TS]

00:34:08   like a Mac one and it doesn't look like [TS]

00:34:09   an iPad app yeah who knows what's going [TS]

00:34:13   on and there's all that it's I don't [TS]

00:34:14   understand anybody uses web apps and [TS]

00:34:16   it's because it's like i tried to use [TS]

00:34:18   the shortcut shift command H to make a [TS]

00:34:22   text header which works in you know it's [TS]

00:34:25   a keyboard shortcut i know from the [TS]

00:34:26   desktop version of note but of course [TS]

00:34:28   safari ate that keystroke and tried to [TS]

00:34:31   take me home [TS]

00:34:32   yeah but it was great it was smart [TS]

00:34:35   université do you want to do you sure [TS]

00:34:37   you want to do that because you've got [TS]

00:34:38   unsaved changes in this text editing [TS]

00:34:40   field i would much rather an app that [TS]

00:34:43   just like written in the old 1999 HTML [TS]

00:34:48   yea though the ones that I use like the [TS]

00:34:51   their ones that like that they are [TS]

00:34:53   they're pure web one there . they're [TS]

00:34:56   there for the web like just unabashedly [TS]

00:34:59   and there's something I think like I [TS]

00:35:00   think is one of the reasons why google [TS]

00:35:02   docs something especially it's gotten [TS]

00:35:03   better now but you know was very [TS]

00:35:05   frustrating visit kinda was trying to [TS]

00:35:07   mimic a desktop interface [TS]

00:35:09   I mean obviously doctors some amazing [TS]

00:35:11   things particularly the collaboration [TS]

00:35:12   stuff and all that but i think though [TS]

00:35:14   the apps that i actually like using the [TS]

00:35:17   web and like-for-like the writing one [TS]

00:35:18   for example it's just like playing field [TS]

00:35:20   and you get the benefit [TS]

00:35:21   the web app where stuff saved instantly [TS]

00:35:23   and and if anything happens like to your [TS]

00:35:26   computer are you never lose data ever [TS]

00:35:28   like it's to me it works very well but [TS]

00:35:32   the the other thing that I do that I [TS]

00:35:34   think makes it much more tolerable is [TS]

00:35:36   you know speaking of mac utilities is [TS]

00:35:38   fluid where you feel like a single-site [TS]

00:35:40   browser and then you can make an icon so [TS]

00:35:42   basically when I open like drivers and / [TS]

00:35:45   or WordPress or MailChimp like the [TS]

00:35:47   various you know web apps that I use [TS]

00:35:49   frequently they all have their own [TS]

00:35:51   they're like their own apps and you you [TS]

00:35:54   click you make it in fluid and you click [TS]

00:35:56   it and it opens up with its own icon in [TS]

00:35:58   the dock and separate and so it's not [TS]

00:36:00   buried in my hundreds of tabs like its [TS]

00:36:02   own distinct entity and to me that [TS]

00:36:04   that's that's another app I cannot live [TS]

00:36:07   without like if I actually had to use [TS]

00:36:10   web apps inside a browser like just I'm [TS]

00:36:13   so disorganized in general would be [TS]

00:36:14   would be intolerable but fluid-like [TS]

00:36:15   makes it makes it feel like a normal app [TS]

00:36:19   which is just a professional standpoint [TS]

00:36:21   i have used fluid in the past for once [TS]

00:36:25   or twice when I had to use a web app [TS]

00:36:26   because it's sometimes you wanted to be [TS]

00:36:28   a command tab target but it's it's not [TS]

00:36:30   like a real at all it's terrible [TS]

00:36:32   no I mean from a navigational standpoint [TS]

00:36:34   I know your point where you can find it [TS]

00:36:36   very easily and i can go to it but again [TS]

00:36:38   but well I think when you get apps that [TS]

00:36:42   are mimicking desktop apps in the wind [TS]

00:36:45   and weather they feel awful but like it [TS]

00:36:47   again just use like draft as an example [TS]

00:36:49   like you open it up and you open an [TS]

00:36:51   article and all it is is it's a blank [TS]

00:36:53   page and you type and it's basically a [TS]

00:36:55   text editor and it handles markdown and [TS]

00:36:58   stuff like that so it i find it [TS]

00:37:00   there's lots of benefits i find from [TS]

00:37:02   being a web app including particularly [TS]

00:37:04   the blanket state like I've never ever [TS]

00:37:06   watched stuff that I've written ever [TS]

00:37:07   because even if my computer with a crash [TS]

00:37:09   or or something like that doesn't get [TS]

00:37:12   corrupted it it's just is it's always [TS]

00:37:13   there in to me it because it's it's not [TS]

00:37:17   trying to do too much not try to put all [TS]

00:37:19   these all these menu bars there and then [TS]

00:37:21   in make it feel like its word but now [TS]

00:37:24   it's on the web kinda like Google Docs [TS]

00:37:25   does not all that sort of thing [TS]

00:37:27   it's perfectly it's not it's more than [TS]

00:37:31   tolerable it's it's it's downright [TS]

00:37:32   enjoyable to use and those are the ones [TS]

00:37:34   that that [TS]

00:37:35   I really I really appreciate it i think [TS]

00:37:37   i've been awhile then I know that for [TS]

00:37:40   people of our generation losing data on [TS]

00:37:43   your computer used to be like part of my [TS]

00:37:46   part of life [TS]

00:37:48   the outfit is just like you'd felt guess [TS]

00:37:50   this is my lucky day right like you know [TS]

00:37:53   your system would freeze up the app [TS]

00:37:55   would just crash and vanish no apps and [TS]

00:37:58   the old days did autosave you were stuck [TS]

00:38:01   with the last time you ever hit command [TS]

00:38:03   s and everybody had a horror tale I [TS]

00:38:05   don't think it ever really happened to [TS]

00:38:06   me in a catastrophic way but everybody [TS]

00:38:07   knew somebody at least it wasn't like [TS]

00:38:09   you had to know somebody who knew [TS]

00:38:10   somebody whose brother you knew somebody [TS]

00:38:12   who had happened to where they open up [TS]

00:38:14   in a word or whatever they use hit [TS]

00:38:16   command and started writing a paper got [TS]

00:38:19   to the end and that's when you know [TS]

00:38:21   maybe when they went to hit print the [TS]

00:38:22   print driver crashed and because they'd [TS]

00:38:25   never saved the whole thing was gone it [TS]

00:38:27   was all your nightmares Fear available [TS]

00:38:29   and there was nothing you could do is [TS]

00:38:31   brutal [TS]

00:38:31   there was no like cash of of temporary [TS]

00:38:34   save files there's no no matter how much [TS]

00:38:36   of an expert you were computing there [TS]

00:38:38   was absolutely nothing you could do and [TS]

00:38:40   we just accepted that all well I guess I [TS]

00:38:42   should hit hit command and I got weighed [TS]

00:38:44   ourselves rather than others but that [TS]

00:38:48   and it was actually that was the main [TS]

00:38:50   reason that was a common scenario was [TS]

00:38:51   that that first command ass was sort of [TS]

00:38:53   a pain in the ass because you have to [TS]

00:38:55   pick a location and then pick a file [TS]

00:38:56   name and subsequent command asses are [TS]

00:38:59   always very easy because is nothing else [TS]

00:39:01   to do you have already given it a [TS]

00:39:02   location in a name and the command ask [TS]

00:39:04   you just you know in the old days she [TS]

00:39:06   did after wait you have to wait like a [TS]

00:39:07   second or two for the actual file to [TS]

00:39:09   write but it was nowhere near as much of [TS]

00:39:12   a cognitive hurdle of that first command [TS]

00:39:15   ass would you know you know the right [TS]

00:39:17   interface i think this is one of those [TS]

00:39:19   ways that the original mac team got [TS]

00:39:21   wrong was in in those days if that's how [TS]

00:39:23   it was going to be where there was no [TS]

00:39:24   autosave when you hit command and [TS]

00:39:27   instead of immediately giving you a new [TS]

00:39:29   untitled window it should have [TS]

00:39:30   immediately forced you to pick a [TS]

00:39:32   location in a file name whatever [TS]

00:39:36   something that before you get that [TS]

00:39:38   window where you can start typing you [TS]

00:39:40   should have had to pick a location [TS]

00:39:42   filename [TS]

00:39:44   why do that I think so one of the things [TS]

00:39:46   that's great about iOS and there's [TS]

00:39:48   another use web apps is the because iOS [TS]

00:39:52   from the was from the ground up kind of [TS]

00:39:54   designed that way and apps in general [TS]

00:39:56   are always saving and are always [TS]

00:39:57   thinking you know thinking what they [TS]

00:40:00   have the cloud there's no I distinct [TS]

00:40:02   sort of save process it's sort of [TS]

00:40:04   integral 22 how they work so i have a [TS]

00:40:06   lot of apps where I have a ir s version [TS]

00:40:09   and then i have the web version on on my [TS]

00:40:13   mac and i like those because they're [TS]

00:40:15   always in sync constantly whereas ones [TS]

00:40:18   that have a mac app and ones that have [TS]

00:40:20   an iOS app the mac app that the sink is [TS]

00:40:22   never like perfect every time like for [TS]

00:40:24   me like it if I don't trust the sink [TS]

00:40:27   that it's going to be synced up every [TS]

00:40:29   single time like it almost like to me [TS]

00:40:33   that's trumped like the user interface [TS]

00:40:34   like of like using a native app which i [TS]

00:40:37   do prefer native apps in general but if [TS]

00:40:40   I don't have full confidence that it's [TS]

00:40:42   going to be synced every single time i [TS]

00:40:43   will put up with the with the web app [TS]

00:40:46   just to have that that knowledge is [TS]

00:40:47   always there occurs to me having it [TS]

00:40:49   always available is key and I know that [TS]

00:40:51   Apple you know tried to sort of rejigger [TS]

00:40:55   the document model was it back in Lyon [TS]

00:40:57   to make it more iOS like yeah but the [TS]

00:41:00   problem was you know I think the I still [TS]

00:41:02   that still drives me up the wall like it [TS]

00:41:05   actually I that's one reason I stopped [TS]

00:41:06   using i work i know they sort of added [TS]

00:41:09   it back in bits and pieces and some [TS]

00:41:11   terminal commands you can get to like [TS]

00:41:13   restoring the same as button and stuff [TS]

00:41:14   but I now you hold on I'll show me it [TS]

00:41:17   was ours no I think that you can add a [TS]

00:41:19   personalized there's a terminal command [TS]

00:41:21   you can have it on the menu permanently [TS]

00:41:22   have to press option every single time [TS]

00:41:24   but the I destroyed so many documents by [TS]

00:41:28   forgetting to like duplicate and like [TS]

00:41:30   the autosave is up its well it's like [TS]

00:41:33   the passing like what [TS]

00:41:34   once you have the muscle memory and [TS]

00:41:36   you're used to doing a certain way even [TS]

00:41:39   if that's not the best way like you're [TS]

00:41:41   it's it it was for people who are you [TS]

00:41:43   have been using it for years it's like [TS]

00:41:45   too late it and but anyhow so now we're [TS]

00:41:49   not accusing what apps but like that in [TS]

00:41:52   the right kind in the right context that [TS]

00:41:53   I like them [TS]

00:41:55   uh I were 43 minutes and we have talking [TS]

00:42:00   anyway long story short the airplane at [TS]

00:42:02   the airport their pods do have serious [TS]

00:42:04   happens that was the best digression [TS]

00:42:06   ever i will say this is one of those [TS]

00:42:09   those serie commands for controlling the [TS]

00:42:11   audio on the air pods they do work I end [TS]

00:42:13   and they've worked remarkably well ever [TS]

00:42:15   since it was pointed out to me that they [TS]

00:42:17   work i don't know why it failed for me [TS]

00:42:18   the first time but they're not [TS]

00:42:21   instantaneous it's the double tap [TS]

00:42:24   there's a moment before you hear the [TS]

00:42:26   Serie okay I'm listening [TS]

00:42:28   and then there's a moment after that [TS]

00:42:29   before it'll actually catch everything [TS]

00:42:31   you say so it works but it's nowhere [TS]

00:42:34   near as instantaneous is just clicking [TS]

00:42:36   the button on your another the earphone [TS]

00:42:39   cable to just go volume up volume up or [TS]

00:42:41   something like that [TS]

00:42:42   interesting how the the silver the only [TS]

00:42:45   controls that you have on their pods are [TS]

00:42:47   trigger Siri or take them out of here [TS]

00:42:49   and pause right yeah it's just there's [TS]

00:42:50   no extra like there's nothing else [TS]

00:42:52   there's no and there's no options for [TS]

00:42:54   like triple clip you know you DoubleTap [TS]

00:42:56   for Siri there's no way to say that if I [TS]

00:42:58   triple tap or quadruple tap or something [TS]

00:43:00   like that to do something else maybe [TS]

00:43:02   they'll do that in the future maybe not [TS]

00:43:03   because it's a little you know finicky [TS]

00:43:06   overall this is not a dealbreaker be for [TS]

00:43:08   me by any part I the only headphones i [TS]

00:43:10   want to use other than the ones I used [TS]

00:43:12   for podcasting our airports it's you [TS]

00:43:15   know it is though the only minus i can [TS]

00:43:17   think of with them now that's [TS]

00:43:20   interesting i I'm I'm worried i know you [TS]

00:43:22   said that they fit better than the [TS]

00:43:23   regular year ones that which don't fit [TS]

00:43:25   in my ears at a at all so I'm gonna I'm [TS]

00:43:28   gonna get them i'm very intrigued by [TS]

00:43:29   them but that that specific point is is [TS]

00:43:33   a little bit it's weird i can see both [TS]

00:43:34   both have been situation where I both [TS]

00:43:36   want to take them out of my ear but then [TS]

00:43:38   I also have to hit pause so that idea [TS]

00:43:39   about doing it once is is really [TS]

00:43:41   compelling for the same situation if you [TS]

00:43:43   want to talk to somebody on you and you [TS]

00:43:44   know you want to take take take out your [TS]

00:43:46   ear but at the same time I'm worried [TS]

00:43:49   about fit and I'm worried about the data [TS]

00:43:52   having that control i use that I use the [TS]

00:43:54   clicker either beats ones and I use that [TS]

00:43:56   clicker all the time i did too at the [TS]

00:43:58   beach ones [TS]

00:43:59   alright let's take a break and thank our [TS]

00:44:01   first sponsor it is our good friends at [TS]

00:44:06   backblaze back plays you know you know [TS]

00:44:08   these guys they offer unlimited native [TS]

00:44:10   backup for the mac and for a pc i don't [TS]

00:44:15   know I've never used to pc so you have [TS]

00:44:18   to take their word for that but on a mac [TS]

00:44:20   i can guarantee you it is excellent [TS]

00:44:23   no credit card required no risk you get [TS]

00:44:25   a 15 day free trial at backpage.com / [TS]

00:44:27   during fireball I say this every time I [TS]

00:44:32   wish that they would stop sponsoring the [TS]

00:44:34   show because they would write to me and [TS]

00:44:35   say sorry John nobody's signing up [TS]

00:44:38   anymore because everybody listens to the [TS]

00:44:39   talk show is signed up for back place i [TS]

00:44:41   would love it would make me feel better [TS]

00:44:42   even though I i do like the money that [TS]

00:44:45   they sponsor the show I would feel [TS]

00:44:47   better knowing that everybody was [TS]

00:44:49   listening to this show has some sort of [TS]

00:44:52   offline out of their office backup use [TS]

00:44:56   it in addition don't use it you don't [TS]

00:44:57   have to use it as your only backup you [TS]

00:44:59   good theory i think backup is the 11 of [TS]

00:45:01   those things that really should be you [TS]

00:45:04   know you should have multiple layers of [TS]

00:45:05   it so use time machine use super duper [TS]

00:45:08   or something like that to make a clone [TS]

00:45:09   of your startup disk do those things [TS]

00:45:12   hard drives external hard drives are [TS]

00:45:13   relatively cheap you can buy them you [TS]

00:45:15   know especially if you get the spinning [TS]

00:45:16   disk once you can get them just for [TS]

00:45:18   backup and they're so cheap do it but [TS]

00:45:21   having a backup that's off site is such [TS]

00:45:24   a I say it every time it makes you sleep [TS]

00:45:27   better [TS]

00:45:28   it is such a relief to know that [TS]

00:45:30   everything and back place has no limits [TS]

00:45:32   you think [TS]

00:45:33   well I'd like to sign up but I've got a [TS]

00:45:35   giant you know hard drive full of all [TS]

00:45:38   these movies and and photos I don't want [TS]

00:45:41   to have to decide what I back up and it [TS]

00:45:43   is unlimited [TS]

00:45:44   it doesn't matter you pay five bucks per [TS]

00:45:47   Mac per month five bucks a month for [TS]

00:45:50   each mac and it doesn't matter how much [TS]

00:45:51   you have they'll just back it all up the [TS]

00:45:53   only hitch is that it just takes longer [TS]

00:45:55   for that initial backup to actually [TS]

00:45:57   upload everything you've got so the more [TS]

00:45:59   data you have yes it there's no magic [TS]

00:46:02   that will let 10 terabytes update in an [TS]

00:46:05   hour [TS]

00:46:06   it's not going to happen but however [TS]

00:46:07   long it takes once is updated it just [TS]

00:46:09   you know incremental e runs from there [TS]

00:46:12   it i have never noticed it [TS]

00:46:14   I mean I've been talking about [TS]

00:46:18   problems with some other apps that take [TS]

00:46:20   up space i often have Activity Monitor [TS]

00:46:23   running and I'm looking at apps that are [TS]

00:46:25   taking up too much cpu I've never seen [TS]

00:46:27   back plays pop up in my list of cpu [TS]

00:46:29   usage and never slows down your machine [TS]

00:46:31   i have no idea when it runs i don't know [TS]

00:46:33   i just said it to the default settings [TS]

00:46:35   and let go [TS]

00:46:36   I never noticed and it's always there [TS]

00:46:38   and when I have checked just to see [TS]

00:46:39   what's in my back place it's always [TS]

00:46:41   up-to-date it is an amazing service the [TS]

00:46:44   mac software is written by former Apple [TS]

00:46:46   engineers it's totally native it's just [TS]

00:46:48   a simple control panel in the system [TS]

00:46:50   preferences and there's no gimmick for [TS]

00:46:52   additional charges there's no trick to [TS]

00:46:54   this five dollars a month per device to [TS]

00:46:56   the thing that's the offer and that's it [TS]

00:46:58   so go to backpage.com / daring fireball [TS]

00:47:01   then don't know you came from here you [TS]

00:47:03   get 15 days to try it free do that you [TS]

00:47:06   won't be charged a nickel before then [TS]

00:47:08   and then you just start paying after [TS]

00:47:10   that so my thanks to back place go sign [TS]

00:47:12   up for them sign up your parents signed [TS]

00:47:14   up anybody you know I get everybody back [TS]

00:47:17   tub i am a happy customer [TS]

00:47:24   it's a great service alright what else [TS]

00:47:26   we got on the agenda you see on twitter [TS]

00:47:28   i tweeted a couple like a week or two [TS]

00:47:31   ago that Amy's watch fell apart I did [TS]

00:47:34   yes it is funny because you why didn't [TS]

00:47:38   you describe what happened but my wife [TS]

00:47:39   has been complaining that her watch is [TS]

00:47:41   getting really bad at heart rate [TS]

00:47:43   monitoring up its going to have heart [TS]

00:47:45   yeah I don't sell it sell that I [TS]

00:47:47   guarantee it she's probably like three [TS]

00:47:48   weeks three weeks the head of a me so [TS]

00:47:52   that's what happened so what happened he [TS]

00:47:54   has a 13 millimeter stainless steel [TS]

00:47:56   Apple watch that we have the same it was [TS]

00:47:59   just very early maybe even ordered like [TS]

00:48:01   when they first went on sale and you [TS]

00:48:04   know they were famously backordered for [TS]

00:48:06   a while so sometime in May of last [TS]

00:48:07   year's when she got it [TS]

00:48:10   she's worn it not necessarily every day [TS]

00:48:12   but she's worn it most days and she [TS]

00:48:14   loves it for the fitness tracking it is [TS]

00:48:16   first and foremost a fitness tracker for [TS]

00:48:18   she was it when she works out she wears [TS]

00:48:21   it the filler circles everyday and a [TS]

00:48:24   couple weeks ago my question exactly she [TS]

00:48:26   just started vaguely again it's she [TS]

00:48:28   blames me for everything that goes wrong [TS]

00:48:30   with every Apple [TS]

00:48:31   it's not even like she asked for help [TS]

00:48:32   she's blaming me that and she blamed me [TS]

00:48:36   that she was getting less do credit less [TS]

00:48:38   credit for things and you know like some [TS]

00:48:42   things like a workout in the gym maybe [TS]

00:48:43   you know some days you were feeling it [TS]

00:48:47   and you know you're more motivated or [TS]

00:48:48   you have more energy and you you know [TS]

00:48:50   you you know an hour doing the same [TS]

00:48:52   exercise maybe you do burn more calories [TS]

00:48:54   because you're you know you were more [TS]

00:48:56   into it but she was getting less 4 u'r [TS]

00:48:59   calories burn counted even for things [TS]

00:49:01   like walking to school to pick Jonas up [TS]

00:49:04   if she said like a walk then which you'd [TS]

00:49:06   think would should be very very close [TS]

00:49:08   every single day and usually used to be [TS]

00:49:10   and hers was very low and then she [TS]

00:49:12   upgraded to watch os3 and it went the [TS]

00:49:14   other way and she started getting like [TS]

00:49:15   seemingly extra credit for her calories [TS]

00:49:19   burned and she she didn't complain as [TS]

00:49:20   much then but she still thought [TS]

00:49:21   something was flaky and then the other [TS]

00:49:23   day about a week ago and then she woke [TS]

00:49:26   up and she went to take your watch off [TS]

00:49:27   the charger and then the whole back just [TS]

00:49:30   stuck to the magnetic charger [TS]

00:49:32   yea even mention that so after my wife [TS]

00:49:35   was away literally like two days after [TS]

00:49:37   you you you talked about that she was [TS]

00:49:40   complaining of the same thing about the [TS]

00:49:41   tractor working so he took the charger [TS]

00:49:43   and I was like did it like a bunch of [TS]

00:49:45   times attaching and detaching think it [TS]

00:49:47   would pop off it hasn't popped up yet [TS]

00:49:49   but the same situation she's wanted [TS]

00:49:51   pretty much daily since she got at the [TS]

00:49:53   same time . and as the exact same same [TS]

00:49:56   model has exactly . so yeah I and I i'm [TS]

00:50:00   looking forward to getting a look at the [TS]

00:50:01   larger internets apparently so it seems [TS]

00:50:03   like a common fair i tweeted a picture [TS]

00:50:04   of it and and cracked a very snarky joke [TS]

00:50:09   because I happen to follow a couple of [TS]

00:50:12   other watch things on Twitter and I [TS]

00:50:15   forget who was what was the company pet [TS]

00:50:17   Patek had came out with a new watch and [TS]

00:50:21   I right tweeted the same day I should i [TS]

00:50:24   treated a link to this new protect watch [TS]

00:50:27   and [TS]

00:50:29   you know which is like a [TS]

00:50:30   twenty-five-thousand-dollar dive watch [TS]

00:50:33   and I said I wonder what type of glue [TS]

00:50:34   attackies to seal the case and I of [TS]

00:50:39   course and i have to wait too many [TS]

00:50:40   wonderful way to do a 23 I can't tweet [TS]

00:50:43   something like that without having two [TS]

00:50:44   or three four people think I'm being [TS]

00:50:47   serious and then they were like protect [TS]

00:50:49   doesn't glue their watches together John [TS]

00:50:51   and it was i guess i know i don't--it's [TS]

00:50:54   you feel bad and kind of make fun of [TS]

00:50:56   them because they're trying to help but [TS]

00:50:57   it is the earnestness and their replies [TS]

00:50:59   that it it i get that sometimes as well [TS]

00:51:03   so but the other the more interesting [TS]

00:51:06   things I got a whole bunch of replies [TS]

00:51:08   from people who are like same thing [TS]

00:51:10   happen to me same thing happened to me [TS]

00:51:11   seems like it's more common with the [TS]

00:51:14   stainless steel once at least [TS]

00:51:17   anecdotally based on Twitter followers [TS]

00:51:19   who tweeted me about it it because it [TS]

00:51:22   wasn't only steel ones but it was [TS]

00:51:24   primarily steel ones and knowing that [TS]

00:51:26   the aluminum sport models selling [TS]

00:51:29   greater quantity you would think that if [TS]

00:51:31   it was as likely to happen to any other [TS]

00:51:33   watch it would be mostly the sport [TS]

00:51:34   models so i think that the problem is [TS]

00:51:36   more typical with the steel I don't know [TS]

00:51:38   if it's because they went through a [TS]

00:51:41   different you know production line and [TS]

00:51:43   that was the production line where the [TS]

00:51:44   problem was I don't know if it was that [TS]

00:51:46   the gluttony maybe they use the same [TS]

00:51:47   glue but that glue and he's better to [TS]

00:51:50   aluminum than to steal could just be [TS]

00:51:53   honestly if you think about it could [TS]

00:51:55   just be Apple has you know what 10 years [TS]

00:51:58   of expertise working with aluminum and [TS]

00:52:01   stainless steel is relatively new to [TS]

00:52:03   their now that's brought that's probably [TS]

00:52:05   the that's probably the explanation [TS]

00:52:07   right there [TS]

00:52:08   but anyway long story short a whole [TS]

00:52:09   bunch of people wrote and said it [TS]

00:52:11   happened to them they took it to the [TS]

00:52:12   apple store and it was you know you [TS]

00:52:14   gotta wait you can't they don't just [TS]

00:52:15   give you a replacement on the spot but [TS]

00:52:16   they take the watch away and and give [TS]

00:52:18   you a replacement even if it's out of [TS]

00:52:20   warranty and Amy's was out of warranty [TS]

00:52:22   because we have never bought apple care [TS]

00:52:24   for any apple products since 1991 so I [TS]

00:52:28   did I took it to the apple store i did [TS]

00:52:31   not seem to be recognized which I'm [TS]

00:52:33   always worried about cuz i want to [TS]

00:52:34   report on this as I you know like what [TS]

00:52:36   if I'm just a normal apple customer what [TS]

00:52:38   are you what happens when you take your [TS]

00:52:40   Apple watch it after it falls apart on [TS]

00:52:42   the charger i'm pretty sure that the [TS]

00:52:45   people that the genius guy i dealt with [TS]

00:52:47   did not you know you didn't recognize me [TS]

00:52:50   and you know as soon as I describe the [TS]

00:52:52   problem he was you know started typing [TS]

00:52:54   it into his his ipod their [TS]

00:52:56   accommodations you know before do well [TS]

00:52:59   he didn't he heard it didn't seem at [TS]

00:53:02   first and any looked it up and had to [TS]

00:53:03   type in the serial number and then when [TS]

00:53:07   he described the problem he said oh good [TS]

00:53:09   you know even though this is our [TS]

00:53:11   warranty that I can cover this you know [TS]

00:53:13   and it seemed new to him and then he was [TS]

00:53:14   and he laughed and said the first [TS]

00:53:18   question I'd already told him how it you [TS]

00:53:19   know how it was discovered that it [TS]

00:53:21   wasn't dropped during just pulling it [TS]

00:53:22   off the charger and he said though he [TS]

00:53:24   said the first question is did the [TS]

00:53:25   customer discovered the problem-- [TS]

00:53:27   removing the watch from the charger [TS]

00:53:29   yeah so it did my own thing the end is [TS]

00:53:31   known system [TS]

00:53:32   yeah it's so known that there's a chain [TS]

00:53:34   through the you know how did this happen [TS]

00:53:36   that begins with did it happen [TS]

00:53:39   pulling the watch off the charger so you [TS]

00:53:42   know as we record the watch is in that [TS]

00:53:45   325 day will tell you when it comes back [TS]

00:53:48   . i'm curious if they're gonna if they [TS]

00:53:51   replace it if they're going to replace [TS]

00:53:52   it with a series 0 or a serious one [TS]

00:53:57   yeah that's a good question the the yeah [TS]

00:53:59   that was the trouble with the app i [TS]

00:54:01   kinda want because I'm never on the [TS]

00:54:02   swimming thing that now so i kinda want [TS]

00:54:05   to get the the well first off great [TS]

00:54:09   Hockenberry is a apparently a popular [TS]

00:54:11   guess that's what he's written about [TS]

00:54:12   that he's been using the original apple [TS]

00:54:15   watch for swimming [TS]

00:54:16   ever since he got it and let me the [TS]

00:54:17   ocean where it's it's probably i would [TS]

00:54:19   imagine the corrosiveness is is more and [TS]

00:54:21   more problem but the problem is that the [TS]

00:54:24   workout app does not [TS]

00:54:26   you can't get the swimming on the rig on [TS]

00:54:29   the original watch even with right [TS]

00:54:30   updated OS like apples just not included [TS]

00:54:33   so you have to get a new watch the [TS]

00:54:35   problem is I i mean i i've kind of [TS]

00:54:38   stopped wearing the app Washington [TS]

00:54:40   day-to-day things like for me the I've [TS]

00:54:42   trained my notifications so much that [TS]

00:54:44   when i get a notification I almost [TS]

00:54:46   always wanted you deal with it on the [TS]

00:54:48   phone anyway I'm just super aggressive [TS]

00:54:51   about not getting hardly any [TS]

00:54:52   notifications [TS]

00:54:53   but and the delay and looking at the [TS]

00:54:55   time was just the that was kind of it I [TS]

00:54:59   got benefits i I've back to a regular [TS]

00:55:01   watch most of the time but i would like [TS]

00:55:04   to i'd still like to track you know the [TS]

00:55:06   the actual exercising so I want to get a [TS]

00:55:09   maybe i'm considering a new one [TS]

00:55:11   the problem is I personally just don't [TS]

00:55:14   find the aluminum ones good looking at [TS]

00:55:16   all like to me the stainless steel still [TS]

00:55:18   looks so much better and actually the [TS]

00:55:19   one that was really great is the is the [TS]

00:55:21   white one [TS]

00:55:22   so the problem is like I can't really [TS]

00:55:23   justify getting the the new edition 12 [TS]

00:55:27   years while are right it might have just [TS]

00:55:29   using it for four workouts like well [TS]

00:55:31   maybe I'll start wearing a day today I'm [TS]

00:55:32   like well now we are at I don't know so [TS]

00:55:34   i i'm i'm stuck in paralysis [TS]

00:55:36   uh right now but we'll see i'll probably [TS]

00:55:39   i'll probably one of this work one side [TS]

00:55:41   I think it would be I should anyway just [TS]

00:55:44   to see what it's like how its improved [TS]

00:55:46   relative to the current one [TS]

00:55:47   yeah anyway that was my story about the [TS]

00:55:50   Apple watch so I wonder I I i will I I [TS]

00:55:54   look for [TS]

00:55:55   I don't look for it but it sounds like I [TS]

00:55:57   will be corroborating it soon [TS]

00:55:58   exactly symptoms that that that you had [TS]

00:56:00   you want to talk about I don't want to [TS]

00:56:04   spend a long time on it but this this [TS]

00:56:06   story of dash the developer of the dash [TS]

00:56:11   app anybody has been reading daring [TS]

00:56:13   fireball of the last week with no it [TS]

00:56:15   long story short i do you want to [TS]

00:56:20   summarize it its it's such a weird story [TS]

00:56:23   yeah i think that i think that the i [TS]

00:56:26   personally don't want to spend on [TS]

00:56:28   Tidewater in part because it's still [TS]

00:56:31   kind of unclear there's a new story that [TS]

00:56:32   there is a Richie wrote this morning [TS]

00:56:34   that I haven't fully read that [TS]

00:56:35   apparently is more details are coming [TS]

00:56:37   out and as well as things like it needs [TS]

00:56:41   there's gonna be inherent speculation [TS]

00:56:43   here i think the only the only comment I [TS]

00:56:46   would have liked it sounds like this guy [TS]

00:56:47   made some mistakes and probably you know [TS]

00:56:50   what's the saying like that the cover-up [TS]

00:56:52   is always worse than the crime right and [TS]

00:56:54   like wasn't fully transparent about [TS]

00:56:57   about his situation and so it's easy to [TS]

00:57:01   look at it and putting balance and say [TS]

00:57:02   well apple gave him a chance and with [TS]

00:57:04   into the stuff and he did these bad [TS]

00:57:06   things [TS]

00:57:06   any kind of way the situation is one [TS]

00:57:08   against the other the only I guess the [TS]

00:57:10   only push back i would have to that is [TS]

00:57:13   we're dealing on one side is the biggest [TS]

00:57:17   corporation in the world where this [TS]

00:57:18   particular developer and app doesn't [TS]

00:57:21   make any difference to their bottom line [TS]

00:57:24   and this other guy where like that this [TS]

00:57:25   is his life it is it's his job and that [TS]

00:57:29   changes sort of the the moral calculus [TS]

00:57:31   for lack of a better term like it sounds [TS]

00:57:34   like this guy definitely screwed up and [TS]

00:57:36   he kind of covers his tracks and and you [TS]

00:57:39   could be a very moralistic and [TS]

00:57:41   legalistic about and say like sorry you [TS]

00:57:43   screwed up like apples justified here [TS]

00:57:44   and that's not wrong but i think it's [TS]

00:57:48   it's it it's on apple and you have a [TS]

00:57:51   situation with google with like YouTube [TS]

00:57:53   accounts being suspended or adsense like [TS]

00:57:55   that money disappearing like this happen [TS]

00:57:57   again and again where the balance of [TS]

00:58:00   power and the balance of injury is so [TS]

00:58:02   out of whack that I think it behooves [TS]

00:58:06   the sort of big players to to have more [TS]

00:58:10   grace and more understanding and end it [TS]

00:58:12   hopefully that's the way it's gonna work [TS]

00:58:13   out but i had i think that that's the [TS]

00:58:15   main point make this isn't like a [TS]

00:58:16   one-to-one like who's right and who's [TS]

00:58:17   wrong you have to consider like that [TS]

00:58:19   where the consequences of these actions [TS]

00:58:21   and you know hopefully it's going to [TS]

00:58:23   work out in the end for this guy me [TS]

00:58:25   selling and out for developers so him [TS]

00:58:28   not being in the Indian Mac App Store [TS]

00:58:30   particular it will you will probably be [TS]

00:58:33   okay arm but any out that this might [TS]

00:58:36   have a big picture sort of observation [TS]

00:58:38   about the whole thing [TS]

00:58:39   yeah it's the developers name is bugged [TS]

00:58:41   out pronounce it closely close enough [TS]

00:58:43   he's from Romania and bogdan popescu [TS]

00:58:46   he's still I think is fairly young and [TS]

00:58:51   it was confusing at first because we're [TS]

00:58:54   more or less the little story is that [TS]

00:58:55   there were two developer accounts tide [TS]

00:58:57   they were related to the same bank [TS]

00:58:59   accounts and credit card and the one [TS]

00:59:01   account was full of smokes leeches easy [TS]

00:59:04   apps and the other account only had the [TS]

00:59:09   dash apps and dash is a an API browser [TS]

00:59:15   and snippet browsers and snippets [TS]

00:59:17   meaning you can enter your own little [TS]

00:59:18   snippets attacks like [TS]

00:59:19   frequent like if you do tech support or [TS]

00:59:20   something like that you have a bunch of [TS]

00:59:22   frequently used responses you can invoke [TS]

00:59:25   dash type a couple of letters to get the [TS]

00:59:27   saved snippet you want and boom there it [TS]

00:59:29   is pasted into your email and it's a [TS]

00:59:32   really great app i have it i don't do [TS]

00:59:34   enough programming anymore that it's [TS]

00:59:36   really been useful but i can see that [TS]

00:59:38   it's super super useful i know that you [TS]

00:59:42   know it people use it even instead like [TS]

00:59:44   mac developers use it instead of xcode [TS]

00:59:47   four document browsing it's so good it's [TS]

00:59:49   you know and you know for people who are [TS]

00:59:52   doing things that are not xcode like PHP [TS]

00:59:54   or pearl or something like that it can [TS]

00:59:57   be way better than the document browse [TS]

00:59:57   be way better than the document browse [TS]

01:00:00   documentation that typically invoke like [TS]

01:00:01   through terminal or something like that [TS]

01:00:04   it's a really well regarded app there's [TS]

01:00:07   an iOS version and stuff like that and [TS]

01:00:08   people at first when this guy's [TS]

01:00:10   developer account that what Apple did it [TS]

01:00:11   first was yank all of it they are all [TS]

01:00:14   taken off the store and this guy said [TS]

01:00:15   hey I they said I did a preview fraud I [TS]

01:00:18   don't you know I didn't do that and [TS]

01:00:20   people really did and I think rightly so [TS]

01:00:22   and I think it was it was the right way [TS]

01:00:24   for the community to go we're like hey I [TS]

01:00:26   believe this guy because his apps don't [TS]

01:00:28   look scary at all i use them in love [TS]

01:00:30   it's a good apps and you know it went [TS]

01:00:33   from there and i think it was you know I [TS]

01:00:35   think it was good i didn't link to it at [TS]

01:00:37   first and i'm glad i didn't I felt like [TS]

01:00:39   my spidey-sense kicked in because I just [TS]

01:00:41   felt like there was something fishy [TS]

01:00:42   going on like it just didn't seem like [TS]

01:00:44   the whole story was outside i didn't [TS]

01:00:46   think i will say i feel a little bad [TS]

01:00:51   that i wrote about this when I got I got [TS]

01:00:53   I got to talk to apple the day that they [TS]

01:00:56   they said no they should a statement [TS]

01:00:58   about what happened and I link to our [TS]

01:01:02   polls report about it because I didn't [TS]

01:01:03   want to post a major article about it [TS]

01:01:06   myself but I ended up doing so anyway [TS]

01:01:09   but I felt a little bad posting about it [TS]

01:01:14   when I did because it seemed like it we [TS]

01:01:16   were only getting Apple side of the [TS]

01:01:17   story and my instinct was we should wait [TS]

01:01:20   to hear the passenger side too but I was [TS]

01:01:23   getting on an airplane i was away for [TS]

01:01:25   the weekend and I didn't want to wait [TS]

01:01:27   four hours or trust that i'd be able to [TS]

01:01:29   work on the Wi-Fi which is in hindsight [TS]

01:01:32   I and I feel like it worked out i don't [TS]

01:01:34   feel like i wrote anything that i had to [TS]

01:01:35   retract or anything like that but it in [TS]

01:01:38   hindsight I felt like I feel like that [TS]

01:01:40   was kind of a bad decision [TS]

01:01:42   I feel like I should have I should have [TS]

01:01:44   been willing to completely miss the [TS]

01:01:45   story or be way late on it then only [TS]

01:01:50   only here one side of it even though I [TS]

01:01:53   think Apple side was more right than [TS]

01:01:54   wrong yet the other the other big point [TS]

01:01:58   I would make is an eyesight and it's [TS]

01:02:01   hard to know for sure what Apple's [TS]

01:02:02   thinking was around this but I certainly [TS]

01:02:03   saw this on twitter at is people were [TS]

01:02:07   being very skeptical always someone [TS]

01:02:08   would share their credit card or the [TS]

01:02:09   share a bank account like that is [TS]

01:02:11   absolutely reality in lots of country [TS]

01:02:13   and I i think that you don't in the [TS]

01:02:15   states the idea that you would and this [TS]

01:02:17   is a for sure this is apple's biggest [TS]

01:02:20   error for sure like they didn't even [TS]

01:02:21   said they were sending the notifications [TS]

01:02:23   to the fraudulent account not even [TS]

01:02:25   though the two accounts were joint right [TS]

01:02:27   so because they assume that in the same [TS]

01:02:30   credit card they must be the same [TS]

01:02:31   developer but when I was that and I [TS]

01:02:33   don't do this not just because I live [TS]

01:02:35   internationally but when i was at [TS]

01:02:36   Microsoft working we were setting up the [TS]

01:02:37   windows app store originally this was a [TS]

01:02:39   one of the biggest problems we had to [TS]

01:02:41   deal with it was very difficult is that [TS]

01:02:43   like Apple you the developer counts [TS]

01:02:46   needed to have a credit card years ago a [TS]

01:02:48   nominal cost and but it turns out it's [TS]

01:02:51   really hard to get a credit card in many [TS]

01:02:53   countries of the world and even if you [TS]

01:02:55   do have a credit card it often doesn't [TS]

01:02:56   work with a us-based transaction because [TS]

01:03:00   for fraud or whatever or they just want [TS]

01:03:02   to internet the only work inside the [TS]

01:03:03   country and it was like a multi-month [TS]

01:03:05   project to get workarounds for this to [TS]

01:03:08   work so there's a point being like this [TS]

01:03:10   idea that two to assume that because to [TS]

01:03:13   account system credit card there winked [TS]

01:03:15   that's in lots of countries that may not [TS]

01:03:18   be the case is very reasonable that may [TS]

01:03:20   not be the case and I think so it's in [TS]

01:03:23   reaction generally there was enough of [TS]

01:03:25   an appreciation that might be the case [TS]

01:03:26   anything like that really article he [TS]

01:03:29   says that the other person was actually [TS]

01:03:31   his mom that's what he was being kind of [TS]

01:03:33   cagey about it but those particular [TS]

01:03:36   details i think i just have wildly [TS]

01:03:40   different reactions of people [TS]

01:03:41   immediately assume that that sounds [TS]

01:03:43   ridiculous and fraudulent from my [TS]

01:03:44   reactions like that I can completely [TS]

01:03:47   believe that's the case and the other [TS]

01:03:48   thing with apple is now that the app [TS]

01:03:51   store in this decision making is going [TS]

01:03:52   up to Phil Schiller the phil schiller [TS]

01:03:55   did not set up the app store that was [TS]

01:03:57   under Eddy Cue and the reason why I [TS]

01:03:59   think that's relevant is he didn't I I [TS]

01:04:03   don't know but it's writing is [TS]

01:04:05   reasonable to presume that film may not [TS]

01:04:09   be familiar with the these sorts of [TS]

01:04:12   things like the hassles of credit cards [TS]

01:04:14   in different countries and bank accounts [TS]

01:04:16   and why they might be combined just not [TS]

01:04:18   because he's piece Dahmer doesn't care [TS]

01:04:20   but he didn't have to go through the [TS]

01:04:21   pain of figuring out all the workarounds [TS]

01:04:23   to get that set up by Eddie cutie man to [TS]

01:04:25   figure that out this out the edges music [TS]

01:04:26   store [TS]

01:04:27   that's not the app store the first time [TS]

01:04:28   and if you don't even know about that [TS]

01:04:31   then immediately it sounds super super [TS]

01:04:33   sketchy whereas if you do know about [TS]

01:04:35   that and so my initial reaction and I i [TS]

01:04:38   was to be told believe it news it's was [TS]

01:04:42   super believable if you understand the [TS]

01:04:43   circumstances of different countries [TS]

01:04:45   that are this infrastructure isn't there [TS]

01:04:48   and i still think that I I think it was [TS]

01:04:51   more like the cover-up is worse than [TS]

01:04:53   that I i think in broad strokes there's [TS]

01:04:56   probably like his story i think is is I [TS]

01:04:59   still tend to think it's mostly tried he [TS]

01:05:01   absolutely made mistakes and this is [TS]

01:05:03   where I get to that sort of my original [TS]

01:05:04   point what if you weighed in the balance [TS]

01:05:06   did he make mistakes it seems clear he [TS]

01:05:08   did but when you consider that if you [TS]

01:05:12   take the totality of the situation and [TS]

01:05:14   understanding different markets and the [TS]

01:05:16   credit card thing the bank of thing and [TS]

01:05:18   it's starting again developer it would [TS]

01:05:20   be nice to have a little more slack and [TS]

01:05:25   and mercy for lack of a better word in [TS]

01:05:27   this situation and then I do hope it [TS]

01:05:30   turns out the long run I definitely [TS]

01:05:31   suspected you and I are on a slack where [TS]

01:05:35   we talked about this before when public [TS]

01:05:36   and I was early on thought hey I think [TS]

01:05:39   there's an english as a second language [TS]

01:05:40   problem here you know because I suspect [TS]

01:05:42   that purpose cuse you know speaks but we [TS]

01:05:47   now I now know romanian is his first [TS]

01:05:49   language and english as a second [TS]

01:05:50   language has written English is [TS]

01:05:51   excellent truly excellent and I can see [TS]

01:05:54   why some people would notice it but I [TS]

01:05:56   see certain telltale signs that say that [TS]

01:05:57   there's a certain stiffness to it that [TS]

01:06:00   to me reads like [TS]

01:06:00   english-as-a-second-language and even [TS]

01:06:03   out matter how good it is it it went [TS]

01:06:05   with didn't you know this firsthand when [TS]

01:06:07   you-know-who living in taipei that the e [TS]

01:06:11   nuance is the hardest thing to get right [TS]

01:06:13   it's in a cell and this is a situation [TS]

01:06:17   that required nuanced and I definitely [TS]

01:06:20   think that there was i I think that [TS]

01:06:24   there was certain bits of nuance that [TS]

01:06:28   slip between the cracks and i think at [TS]

01:06:30   to your point about you know that credit [TS]

01:06:33   cards and bank accounts from Romania [TS]

01:06:36   that work with us credit and bank [TS]

01:06:39   account [TS]

01:06:39   itunes systems and stuff like that there [TS]

01:06:41   were some cultural differences that [TS]

01:06:45   we're even harder to match up because of [TS]

01:06:50   the english as a second language thing [TS]

01:06:52   and I'd the whole thing to me was I it [TS]

01:06:54   no matter what the true story is I I [TS]

01:06:57   can't help but think that this was sort [TS]

01:06:59   of a perfect storm of problems where by [TS]

01:07:03   which i mean that part of the blow up on [TS]

01:07:06   Twitter against apple when this when [TS]

01:07:10   this guy's account was initially yanked [TS]

01:07:12   was sort of and rightly so for now maybe [TS]

01:07:15   i rightly so but justifiably so I of of [TS]

01:07:19   from the developer community of wow [TS]

01:07:21   here's a world where your entire [TS]

01:07:24   livelihood can be pulled by apple and [TS]

01:07:28   they don't even show you the evidence [TS]

01:07:29   against you know which is kind of [TS]

01:07:33   terrifying and you know Brent sentences [TS]

01:07:39   written wrote a good piece about that I [TS]

01:07:41   agreed with largely that you know [TS]

01:07:43   there's there's a reason why you know [TS]

01:07:45   that the foundation of like you know [TS]

01:07:48   most modern judicial systems you know [TS]

01:07:51   involved the right to be able to face [TS]

01:07:53   the evidence that you're charged with [TS]

01:07:56   you know that the the government can't [TS]

01:07:58   just come and say we know that you [TS]

01:07:59   committed this crime so therefore you're [TS]

01:08:02   going to prison doesn't work like that [TS]

01:08:05   well this isn't a judicial system this [TS]

01:08:07   isn't the law of the land applets within [TS]

01:08:08   apples rights as a private company to do [TS]

01:08:10   what they want [TS]

01:08:12   I i do think though in hindsight as the [TS]

01:08:16   more of this story has come out as as [TS]

01:08:18   much of it has i think the one thing you [TS]

01:08:20   can look at and say well there's a you [TS]

01:08:21   know Apple surely deals with actual [TS]

01:08:23   fraud outright fraud on a daily basis I [TS]

01:08:27   don't think they're the appstore [TS]

01:08:29   anti-fraud team is very busy seven days [TS]

01:08:32   a week [TS]

01:08:33   ah i think it's something that this is [TS]

01:08:36   the first time in all the years the app [TS]

01:08:38   store has been up that we've something [TS]

01:08:40   like this has come to light we're still [TS]

01:08:41   you know somebody might have been had [TS]

01:08:43   their account pulled and maybe shouldn't [TS]

01:08:46   have write about them are probably just [TS]

01:08:48   the pure fraudsters so they disappear [TS]

01:08:50   and no one notices it was the it was the [TS]

01:08:52   fraud account [TS]

01:08:53   don't tied to the legitimate account [TS]

01:08:56   that I think made this made this [TS]

01:08:58   unfortunate and ya know in a2 and it's [TS]

01:09:03   very fair . it's the same thing with [TS]

01:09:05   with google and youtube in any of these [TS]

01:09:07   other sites that deal with this i mean [TS]

01:09:08   they're they're dealing with scale and [TS]

01:09:11   it's it's hard that I from an individual [TS]

01:09:15   perspective unless you've actually [TS]

01:09:16   worked at these at these companies will [TS]

01:09:18   destroy before where I think it's like [TS]

01:09:20   my second day at microsoft and I was in [TS]

01:09:22   like some business real like a monthly [TS]

01:09:24   business review sort of meeting and [TS]

01:09:25   they're just going down this list and [TS]

01:09:26   talk about OLX percentage in Brazil and [TS]

01:09:28   Bobby stern yearbook and it was [TS]

01:09:30   mind-blowing like just the casualness [TS]

01:09:32   that they were talking about like [TS]

01:09:33   massive regions of the world and like [TS]

01:09:35   the user numbers and engagement and [TS]

01:09:37   stuff like that and you get used to it [TS]

01:09:39   after a while once you're there but the [TS]

01:09:42   scale that these companies are operating [TS]

01:09:44   on they can't you know there's there's a [TS]

01:09:47   limit between doing all sort of [TS]

01:09:48   one-on-one judicious review and needing [TS]

01:09:50   to have systematic approaches and I did [TS]

01:09:54   find it encouraging that you know the [TS]

01:09:57   phone call I posted that Apple was [TS]

01:09:58   engaging someone I still it i am still [TS]

01:10:01   unclear why it happens only when all the [TS]

01:10:03   press release and in did this big thing [TS]

01:10:05   I would have liked to but I can I can [TS]

01:10:08   have sympathy for for both sides i've [TS]

01:10:10   been fortunate to see both sides and but [TS]

01:10:13   it is a challenge for both is if your [TS]

01:10:16   Apple because you're dealing with scale [TS]

01:10:18   like I said what was that Microsoft I [TS]

01:10:20   got used to the scale stuff like it just [TS]

01:10:22   became normal but that's it's it's not [TS]

01:10:24   normal it's a very it's a very sort of [TS]

01:10:26   narrow way to view the world just view [TS]

01:10:30   it at scale and not to forget about the [TS]

01:10:33   individual sort of level and you could [TS]

01:10:35   see that happy you could see how that [TS]

01:10:37   could happen on the management side and [TS]

01:10:40   you have a sort of mismatch of the [TS]

01:10:42   individual perspective versus the the [TS]

01:10:44   unmask perspective and it's a hard [TS]

01:10:46   problem it's a hard one for both sides [TS]

01:10:48   and one of the things i think it's [TS]

01:10:51   exacerbated by the cultural things and [TS]

01:10:53   the and the International things in the [TS]

01:10:55   language things one of the things that's [TS]

01:10:56   most extraordinary about it though is [TS]

01:10:58   that we know from and [TS]

01:11:01   and you know right or wrong but one of [TS]

01:11:03   the things that popescu did was required [TS]

01:11:05   work hard to fuck off from apple [TS]

01:11:07   developer relations and we know from the [TS]

01:11:09   guy from Apple who spoke to him that [TS]

01:11:10   this clearly did percolate up to the [TS]

01:11:12   level where Phil Schiller was fully [TS]

01:11:14   aware of it right which is kind of [TS]

01:11:16   amazing you know in terms of the scale [TS]

01:11:18   and in terms of where this got to that [TS]

01:11:20   the this you know one man you know indie [TS]

01:11:24   developers problems with being somehow [TS]

01:11:27   tied to a different account or a joint [TS]

01:11:30   account however you want to put it and [TS]

01:11:31   what should happen whatever it [TS]

01:11:33   percolated up to the point where Phil [TS]

01:11:35   Schiller was fully informed on it and [TS]

01:11:36   and was making decisions on which is [TS]

01:11:38   really kind of extraordinary yeah and [TS]

01:11:40   i'm not sure if it's a good thing right [TS]

01:11:41   the it kind of speaks to their being a [TS]

01:11:44   lack of process here right now i'm not [TS]

01:11:46   sure if that's your decision that should [TS]

01:11:48   populate that that high but again they [TS]

01:11:50   might have been [TS]

01:11:51   I either i think there was the [TS]

01:11:52   extraordinary circumstances here is that [TS]

01:11:54   the combination of legitimate and [TS]

01:11:56   instrument right whereas most processors [TS]

01:11:58   are just a legitimate so they would they [TS]

01:12:00   get cotton that are deleted no one knows [TS]

01:12:02   no one cares right was that it was the [TS]

01:12:04   combination here and an apple tying [TS]

01:12:07   those two accounts together because of [TS]

01:12:08   the same credit card and and not sending [TS]

01:12:11   the notices to the account as a whole is [TS]

01:12:14   sending it to the fraudulent account [TS]

01:12:15   right but anyhow [TS]

01:12:17   hopefully I i hope it works out I feel [TS]

01:12:19   bad for the guy you know it's one of [TS]

01:12:21   those things you . they always should [TS]

01:12:23   have been more clear and upfront what [TS]

01:12:24   exactly was going on in and rebuild [TS]

01:12:26   everything but it was like if you were [TS]

01:12:28   in the same situation and the old good i [TS]

01:12:32   guess i think there but for the grace of [TS]

01:12:34   god go i sort of thing and end with [TS]

01:12:36   tremendous gratitude that my business is [TS]

01:12:37   based on the on the open web and is not [TS]

01:12:39   a closed ecosystem with no side loading [TS]

01:12:42   no way around the sort of Apple [TS]

01:12:44   gatekeeper all right I think that's [TS]

01:12:47   enough heard a short segment on dash but [TS]

01:12:50   hopefully I great same way i hope that [TS]

01:12:52   somehow this still works out such that [TS]

01:12:54   dash can get back into the app store [TS]

01:12:55   because it really is a good app and i [TS]

01:12:57   really do think ultimately the guy has [TS]

01:12:59   good intentions and you know the quality [TS]

01:13:02   of the work is yeah and like just like [TS]

01:13:03   the death penalty [TS]

01:13:05   I mean it's not physical death but like [TS]

01:13:08   death of like the app in his company [TS]

01:13:10   hey I mean maybe I'm just a softy but it [TS]

01:13:12   seems that seems like a bit of a [TS]

01:13:15   bummer yeah well the good news is the [TS]

01:13:18   worst-case scenario still got the mac [TS]

01:13:20   that map that he can the mac app can run [TS]

01:13:22   outside the app store and do his own [TS]

01:13:24   he's already had you know it you can [TS]

01:13:26   already get it outside the app store and [TS]

01:13:29   he has a system in place so that people [TS]

01:13:30   who bought it through the app store can [TS]

01:13:32   get the non appstore version without [TS]

01:13:34   having to pay for it again so the [TS]

01:13:37   wording that the thing that is the thing [TS]

01:13:38   that bums me out about this episode and [TS]

01:13:40   what's up with apple is is there's a [TS]

01:13:43   certain segment that is so instinctually [TS]

01:13:46   in defending Apple no matter what and so [TS]

01:13:49   you had a lot of people is particularly [TS]

01:13:51   the developers that were very skeptical [TS]

01:13:54   of apple and defend this guy which is [TS]

01:13:55   great but then but meantime there's a [TS]

01:13:57   lot of people on Twitter that are we [TS]

01:13:59   gonna know for sure a drawn-out it is [TS]

01:14:01   sort of just it's it became tribalistic [TS]

01:14:04   I think that too quickly and then you [TS]

01:14:06   kind of have this weird scenario where I [TS]

01:14:08   think you and again we talked to some of [TS]

01:14:10   these guys were defending him and they [TS]

01:14:12   kind of felt out on an island because [TS]

01:14:14   they're like saying that you know a [TS]

01:14:15   playback singer game in your getting the [TS]

01:14:17   sort of attacks on social media and so [TS]

01:14:19   as soon as Apple releases some sort of [TS]

01:14:20   evidence that means it's right [TS]

01:14:22   the instinct for those people who [TS]

01:14:23   initially defended the developer is like [TS]

01:14:25   snap together sighs oh ok i did my best [TS]

01:14:28   but now he's gone and the truth is as [TS]

01:14:31   with the vast majority things there's [TS]

01:14:32   great in the middle both sides screwed [TS]

01:14:34   up [TS]

01:14:34   I you know for a particular [TS]

01:14:36   communications . like that's definitely [TS]

01:14:38   a screw-up and eat dad just black this [TS]

01:14:43   is still not getting philosophical but [TS]

01:14:45   like there's no most matters are gray [TS]

01:14:47   and this is probably a perfect example [TS]

01:14:49   of that is why it's hard to talk about [TS]

01:14:50   because it if there's there it's very [TS]

01:14:52   much in the indegree reafon and again [TS]

01:14:54   hopefully in the water and it works out [TS]

01:14:56   for everyone i will say well before we [TS]

01:14:58   move on i'll say also in the same what [TS]

01:15:00   regard the other thought that occurred [TS]

01:15:02   to me is this is why Apple stays keeps [TS]

01:15:05   its corporate mouth shut about almost [TS]

01:15:07   everything [TS]

01:15:08   yes infuriating is that can be and as [TS]

01:15:10   opaque is it can make the company b it's [TS]

01:15:13   why they just don't talk about stuff [TS]

01:15:16   even when they want to even when they [TS]

01:15:18   feel like they've been falsely accused [TS]

01:15:19   or they know they've been falsely [TS]

01:15:22   accused and that you know that you know [TS]

01:15:24   somebody says X and it's not true and [TS]

01:15:27   they don't come out and [TS]

01:15:28   they know that's not true here's why [TS]

01:15:29   they just take it they just take it [TS]

01:15:31   because they kind of can't win [TS]

01:15:33   it's all you know that they can let it [TS]

01:15:35   stand keep their mouths shut and let [TS]

01:15:37   some amount of people think that this [TS]

01:15:39   false thing is true or they can come out [TS]

01:15:42   and do to dispute it even they can't [TS]

01:15:44   even prove it but then they look like a [TS]

01:15:46   bully that you know literally the [TS]

01:15:48   biggest and but didn't the biggest [TS]

01:15:49   company in in the world I coming out [TS]

01:15:53   against you know in this case literally [TS]

01:15:55   a one-man company so ya think it's sort [TS]

01:15:59   of a no-lose situation and a no-win [TS]

01:16:00   situation and I can see why the lesser [TS]

01:16:02   you know that the the better route for [TS]

01:16:06   them is usually keep their mouths shut [TS]

01:16:08   totally alright you do you think that [TS]

01:16:10   Apple should allow sideloading of apps [TS]

01:16:12   by the an iOS no I do not [TS]

01:16:14   if I were if I worked at Apple and I was [TS]

01:16:16   in charge are they asked my opinion [TS]

01:16:17   should we allow sideloading of apps in [TS]

01:16:20   iOS i would say no in an ideal world [TS]

01:16:24   where there's no bad actors yes that [TS]

01:16:27   would be the right way to go but I I you [TS]

01:16:30   know this so the example i'm going to [TS]

01:16:32   show it's a is dropbox there's you know [TS]

01:16:36   whole thing what I haven't really [TS]

01:16:37   written or talk much about it but there [TS]

01:16:39   was the thing that came out over the [TS]

01:16:40   summer over somebody and found out that [TS]

01:16:42   dropbox the dropbox app for for Mac was [TS]

01:16:47   like it would say hey we need your admin [TS]

01:16:50   password just to you know finish [TS]

01:16:51   installation and then they would take [TS]

01:16:53   that as admin privileges and write [TS]

01:16:55   themselves into the database that [TS]

01:16:58   controls who has which apps have [TS]

01:17:01   accessibility access to your app to your [TS]

01:17:03   mac which is really sensitive because [TS]

01:17:05   absent have that accessibility access [TS]

01:17:07   you really have to trust them because [TS]

01:17:08   they can like do things like see all [TS]

01:17:10   your keystrokes or see what you're [TS]

01:17:12   clicking on and stuff like that and then [TS]

01:17:15   I just that but they stored the password [TS]

01:17:17   know that you did you start the password [TS]

01:17:18   they know they didn't always work i [TS]

01:17:21   forget the exact details of it up i'll [TS]

01:17:23   put a link i started putting people [TS]

01:17:25   thought they were still people were [TS]

01:17:27   reasonably thinking they stored the [TS]

01:17:28   password but they didn't what they did [TS]

01:17:30   was grant themselves access to that [TS]

01:17:32   database so that they could just keep [TS]

01:17:34   writing to that data that the all [TS]

01:17:36   databases I'm excited again tom [TS]

01:17:39   so they were more or less grew instead [TS]

01:17:41   they weren't taking your admin password [TS]

01:17:42   but they were granting themselves [TS]

01:17:44   permanent admin privileges to your [TS]

01:17:46   accessibility preferences i think is a [TS]

01:17:48   very fair way of saying it [TS]

01:17:50   and what do you say that way it sounds [TS]

01:17:52   as terrible as it well it's a betrayal [TS]

01:17:55   of trust it really isit's shenanigans [TS]

01:17:57   and it shouldn't be happening [TS]

01:17:58   there's no need for it it's really as [TS]

01:18:00   far as what I've heard is that the whole [TS]

01:18:01   thing is just that enable some sort of [TS]

01:18:03   integration with microsoft office files [TS]

01:18:06   something about the complexity of [TS]

01:18:08   Microsoft offices you know bundled file [TS]

01:18:12   format with I don't even you know for [TS]

01:18:15   people like me you don't even have [TS]

01:18:17   office $YEAR installed it's ridiculous [TS]

01:18:19   that they're doing something that i [TS]

01:18:20   would consider you know almost like [TS]

01:18:22   malware like behavior however good their [TS]

01:18:24   intentions are and you know they do [TS]

01:18:28   things they drop box uh you know that [TS]

01:18:32   does some things that they monitor all [TS]

01:18:34   access to the file system and depending [TS]

01:18:35   on how powerful your mac is it can [TS]

01:18:37   actually significantly slowed down [TS]

01:18:38   operations like unzipping files and [TS]

01:18:41   stuff like that because they look there [TS]

01:18:44   snooping at every single action in your [TS]

01:18:46   file system whether it's inside the [TS]

01:18:48   dropbox folder or not which is contrary [TS]

01:18:50   to how it used to work and contrary to [TS]

01:18:53   me to how any reasonable person would [TS]

01:18:55   think dropbox works i would think [TS]

01:18:57   yes of course they're looking at [TS]

01:18:58   everything that happens inside the [TS]

01:19:00   dropbox folder that's why don't you know [TS]

01:19:02   i would assume that they need to so that [TS]

01:19:03   they can keep everything in sync it [TS]

01:19:05   seems ridiculous to me that they're [TS]

01:19:06   looking at anything that happens outside [TS]

01:19:08   the dropbox folder because i don't want [TS]

01:19:10   them to but they are you know I did some [TS]

01:19:13   timing tests on my you know new five [TS]

01:19:15   were relatively new 5k imac that has all [TS]

01:19:18   these extra courses and stuff like that [TS]

01:19:19   node SSD Drive and it's hardly [TS]

01:19:22   noticeable but on like a macbook air or [TS]

01:19:25   something like that it can you know [TS]

01:19:26   significantly slowed down stuff and [TS]

01:19:29   that's my example of an app that's not [TS]

01:19:31   malware it's doing what they said but [TS]

01:19:33   they're taking advantage of you know the [TS]

01:19:36   fact that an app that you download on [TS]

01:19:39   the mac from dropbox.com kenmore let's [TS]

01:19:41   do whatever it can get away with and [TS]

01:19:45   however whatever x y&z the good things [TS]

01:19:49   would be if you could sideload apps [TS]

01:19:51   on on iOS and admittedly I said you know [TS]

01:19:53   install all sorts of apps from outside [TS]

01:19:56   the app store on a mac and I wouldn't [TS]

01:19:57   have it any other way on the Mac it's an [TS]

01:20:00   advantage that iOS you know it's it's [TS]

01:20:02   it's a trade-off there's trade-offs to [TS]

01:20:03   the max style there's trade-offs to the [TS]

01:20:05   iOS style but I feel like Apple has an [TS]

01:20:07   advantage by having one operating system [TS]

01:20:09   that takes the one side and one [TS]

01:20:11   operating system that takes the other [TS]

01:20:12   yeah i agree i agree i mean i would as a [TS]

01:20:16   user I would prefer to be recycled apps [TS]

01:20:18   and where I developed by a developer i [TS]

01:20:21   would like to know that there's that [TS]

01:20:22   there's that option to to to do that in [TS]

01:20:27   debt you the app store isn't the only [TS]

01:20:28   gate keeper but if i put on my sort of [TS]

01:20:31   you know business hat and think about [TS]

01:20:33   what concerns apple-like at what [TS]

01:20:36   concerns apple is their operating at [TS]

01:20:38   this unbelievable scale with with [TS]

01:20:39   hundreds of millions of customers and [TS]

01:20:41   secure is a huge target and yes you can [TS]

01:20:46   lock it down to the extent but then [TS]

01:20:47   they're like fishing becomes a an [TS]

01:20:49   optionally get people to install these [TS]

01:20:51   apps and people will people are I think [TS]

01:20:53   people are not careful about the stuff [TS]

01:20:55   in a way that probably you and I and [TS]

01:20:57   most listeners of this are I think I'd i [TS]

01:21:00   agree with you it's even though all the [TS]

01:21:02   problems of having a single gatekeeper [TS]

01:21:04   in the fact that you had a situation [TS]

01:21:05   with with this developer where Apple can [TS]

01:21:08   have like literally have a kill switch [TS]

01:21:10   on his car on his account those are all [TS]

01:21:14   true and they that means it's really on [TS]

01:21:16   Apple to make sure they get that sort of [TS]

01:21:19   stuff right but I agreed for the from a [TS]

01:21:23   business perspective it doesn't make [TS]

01:21:24   sense to to open it up so yeah we're on [TS]

01:21:27   the same page right i think that the [TS]

01:21:29   advantage of having both the mac OS and [TS]

01:21:31   I mean we could probably do a whole show [TS]

01:21:32   about this but the advantage of having [TS]

01:21:34   mac OS and iOS at the same time and I'm [TS]

01:21:37   firmly of the belief that mac OS is a [TS]

01:21:39   notice [TS]

01:21:40   oh maybe even unpopular among the pundit [TS]

01:21:42   class i don't think that it is on its [TS]

01:21:44   deathbed and it's going to be replaced [TS]

01:21:46   by iOS any year now I think Mac OS is [TS]

01:21:49   thriving as it's ever been [TS]

01:21:52   I think the way Apple sees it and I [TS]

01:21:54   think they're happy with it is that [TS]

01:21:55   they've got one operating system that [TS]

01:21:57   starts from the bottom up in other words [TS]

01:22:00   it's in this is Iowa's don't talk about [TS]

01:22:02   iOS and it's for anybody in every [TS]

01:22:04   ready and it's the simpler one it both [TS]

01:22:07   you know in terms of the user interface [TS]

01:22:09   but also in terms of the technical [TS]

01:22:11   capabilities you know that it doesn't [TS]

01:22:13   you know only had the only output is a [TS]

01:22:16   lightning port and you have to plug in a [TS]

01:22:18   dongle even to get to a USB you know the [TS]

01:22:23   multitasking is a lot simpler the apps [TS]

01:22:25   you know any app that you install has to [TS]

01:22:27   come from the app store where it's been [TS]

01:22:28   vetted and it could be killed at any [TS]

01:22:30   minute [TS]

01:22:31   the multitasking system is such that any [TS]

01:22:34   app has to be ready to be killed at any [TS]

01:22:35   moment and then they've got this other [TS]

01:22:38   operating system mac OS that starts from [TS]

01:22:39   the top down where it's that it's it's [TS]

01:22:42   therefore the most expert of expert [TS]

01:22:44   users you know if you really are you [TS]

01:22:46   know you want to have a unix terminal [TS]

01:22:48   and command line on your system [TS]

01:22:52   you've got it i think that really is [TS]

01:22:55   very strong place to be and I think it's [TS]

01:22:56   worked out very very well yeah I [TS]

01:22:59   completely agree i think the i find it [TS]

01:23:01   bizarre that people think they're going [TS]

01:23:04   to be seen together in it's it's it's [TS]

01:23:06   really viewing the problem from the [TS]

01:23:07   wrong perspective because it it's sort [TS]

01:23:09   of like a you're looking at it from a [TS]

01:23:10   complexity of apples gonna have to [TS]

01:23:12   manage multiple operating systems mobile [TS]

01:23:14   well that's their job that's what like [TS]

01:23:16   it's their job to manage that complexity [TS]

01:23:18   and keep it simple for the user [TS]

01:23:19   like what what the proposal that they [TS]

01:23:22   combine the two quote-unquote simplifies [TS]

01:23:25   it for Apple but it makes it more [TS]

01:23:27   complicated for the user because you [TS]

01:23:29   have a you have a overly complicated [TS]

01:23:31   operating system on one device and a way [TS]

01:23:35   to lock down over simplified on another [TS]

01:23:38   device and that's to completely [TS]

01:23:40   misunderstand i think the way that Apple [TS]

01:23:42   thinks about its products I mean ed the [TS]

01:23:45   idea that you should was presented to [TS]

01:23:47   the user should be simple and what's [TS]

01:23:49   what's the like the einstein quote about [TS]

01:23:50   simplicity whatever liking everything [TS]

01:23:52   should be as simple as possible but not [TS]

01:23:53   more so [TS]

01:23:54   exactly exactly and and that apple would [TS]

01:23:58   prioritize its internal efficiency in [TS]

01:24:02   maintaining two operating systems and [TS]

01:24:04   put that complexity onto the user that [TS]

01:24:06   seems counter to the entire way Apple [TS]

01:24:09   thinks about simplicity and matching [TS]

01:24:10   complexity right the way I've put it at [TS]

01:24:13   the past I forget where I [TS]

01:24:15   I have the einstein quote memorized [TS]

01:24:17   although like all great quotes [TS]

01:24:19   supposedly that quote is apocryphal and [TS]

01:24:21   maybe was never said by Einstein or you [TS]

01:24:23   said something that was not quite as [TS]

01:24:25   clever but people cleaned up over the [TS]

01:24:27   years but anyway that's the quote that's [TS]

01:24:28   attributed to and I'm sticking to it [TS]

01:24:30   my line is something to the effect of [TS]

01:24:32   its the heaviness the commune of mac OS [TS]

01:24:35   that allows iOS to be so light that if [TS]

01:24:38   they got rid of the mac they have to [TS]

01:24:40   make iOS so much more complex to pick up [TS]

01:24:42   the things that the mac does that iOS [TS]

01:24:43   can't that it would wreck iOS and all of [TS]

01:24:48   the things they've done over the years [TS]

01:24:49   and I think it's the same thing is true [TS]

01:24:50   on windows to all of the ways that over [TS]

01:24:52   the years [TS]

01:24:53   Apple and Microsoft have tried to make [TS]

01:24:55   simple modes for mac or windows they [TS]

01:24:59   fail they they fall short there used to [TS]

01:25:01   be like the simple finder on on Mac OS [TS]

01:25:04   which was like a mode you can put the [TS]

01:25:06   mac in where the finder only showed you [TS]

01:25:08   instead of showing you like the whole [TS]

01:25:09   file system it just showed you like a [TS]

01:25:11   panel full of your apps it's there's [TS]

01:25:15   still like that launch window things get [TS]

01:25:17   lunch or whatever he asked the same idea [TS]

01:25:19   its yeah and I think that that launcher [TS]

01:25:22   for mac OS what's called and everything [TS]

01:25:24   the thing I never liked launchpad [TS]

01:25:26   I never I never use it they could just [TS]

01:25:27   erase it if they could just drop it from [TS]

01:25:29   Sierra and I would never even notice [TS]

01:25:31   because it's it's irrelevant and I think [TS]

01:25:35   anything any attempt like that to make [TS]

01:25:36   mac OS too much iose is a failure and I [TS]

01:25:40   think any anything they ever did [TS]

01:25:42   although i don't think there's ever been [TS]

01:25:43   something like that but anything they [TS]

01:25:44   did that made iOS more too much mic mac [TS]

01:25:46   OS would wreck the good parts of Iowa or [TS]

01:25:49   a you could argue this was gonna go to [TS]

01:25:52   go back to the watch this is the mistake [TS]

01:25:53   they made in in watch version one was [TS]

01:25:56   they they should have developed it [TS]

01:25:59   we're in this case the heaviness was on [TS]

01:26:02   iOS iphone and the watch should have [TS]

01:26:05   been white like the ipod right the ipod [TS]

01:26:06   was it was the perfect example of this [TS]

01:26:08   what made it so great was all the [TS]

01:26:11   complexity of managing your music was [TS]

01:26:12   all awful on the computer and all the [TS]

01:26:15   ipod did was play music and and it made [TS]

01:26:17   it so much more powerful and I think the [TS]

01:26:19   mistake that was in version one of the [TS]

01:26:22   watch was with that washer that [TS]

01:26:23   honeycomb of apps and all that sort of [TS]

01:26:25   thing like it was [TS]

01:26:26   it was trying to take pack an iphone [TS]

01:26:29   into it make it self sufficient and in [TS]

01:26:31   the long run I i still think there's a [TS]

01:26:33   future where the watch is the center [TS]

01:26:35   like you want to get seller keep [TS]

01:26:37   building is much more powerful and and [TS]

01:26:38   their the watch becomes heavy and like [TS]

01:26:41   your airports become light or something [TS]

01:26:43   along those lines but we're not there [TS]

01:26:44   yet and I think that's if you wanted to [TS]

01:26:48   to encapsulate where version one of the [TS]

01:26:51   watchman wrong i think that it's [TS]

01:26:53   somewhere in there I know that there are [TS]

01:26:56   people in this before so it's really [TS]

01:26:58   screwed by jumping in before I did the [TS]

01:27:00   sponsor it but it's a good topic i know [TS]

01:27:03   that there are people listening to us [TS]

01:27:04   who are frustrated and they're there [TS]

01:27:06   I I feel your frustration its people who [TS]

01:27:09   do want sideloading and they want that [TS]

01:27:11   because they can tell how for them it [TS]

01:27:13   would make iOS even better and I don't [TS]

01:27:16   deny that at all from me [TS]

01:27:18   iOS would be better if I could sideload [TS]

01:27:20   apps like I can on a map meaning that i [TS]

01:27:23   could just get a piano version of [TS]

01:27:25   application x straight from the [TS]

01:27:27   developer not through the app store and [TS]

01:27:29   and put it on my phone and maybe it [TS]

01:27:32   would mean I'd have a version of a [TS]

01:27:37   amazon video for my apple TV because I [TS]

01:27:41   could side load it and then the right [TS]

01:27:42   would get around you know that to me is [TS]

01:27:44   one of the worst things about apple tvs [TS]

01:27:45   i don't have amazon have amazon prime [TS]

01:27:47   account i think amazon has some of the [TS]

01:27:48   best and original content I mean it's [TS]

01:27:51   maybe not [TS]

01:27:52   they're not quite up there with Netflix [TS]

01:27:54   HBO but their second tier and it's just [TS]

01:27:58   such a pain in the ass to have to load [TS]

01:27:59   it on my phone and airplay it over to [TS]

01:28:01   the appletv rather than just get it on [TS]

01:28:03   apple TV but I totally understand mrs. [TS]

01:28:05   point of view that they don't want to [TS]

01:28:07   give up the thirty percent or have a [TS]

01:28:10   version that you can't buy stuff from I [TS]

01:28:12   don't know what you know but sideloading [TS]

01:28:14   would obviously get around that I can [TS]

01:28:15   see how that would make it better but [TS]

01:28:17   the thing i want to say you know i think [TS]

01:28:19   i want to express the people who are [TS]

01:28:21   frustrated by that is it's not about us [TS]

01:28:23   the mac is there for people like us and [TS]

01:28:25   you know we've got the system like that [TS]

01:28:28   but you can't deny that the fact that [TS]

01:28:30   you can screw up a mac by installing the [TS]

01:28:33   wrong thing has led to an awful lot of [TS]

01:28:35   people who screwed up there Mac by [TS]

01:28:37   installing the wrong thing [TS]

01:28:38   I can't emphasize enough what an amazing [TS]

01:28:41   weight off the shoulders it is to [TS]

01:28:43   non-technical users to have a computer [TS]

01:28:45   like the iPhone the iPad that they can't [TS]

01:28:49   screw up it is a big benefits benefits [TS]

01:28:52   developers to because people download a [TS]

01:28:55   million more apps or what way more than [TS]

01:28:56   a million like exponentially more apps [TS]

01:28:59   on the phone because they're not scared [TS]

01:29:01   of apps i need heart it's hard it's hard [TS]

01:29:03   to remember now but you'll back 10 years [TS]

01:29:05   and people were scared to install stuff [TS]

01:29:07   on their computers oh absolutely it and [TS]

01:29:10   that would be [TS]

01:29:11   and once in the problem is you say all [TS]

01:29:13   only technically you should do it will [TS]

01:29:15   know you like you get to things like [TS]

01:29:17   what's with the accessibility thing in [TS]

01:29:19   china right with the home button where [TS]

01:29:20   people put you get these people do weird [TS]

01:29:24   stuff with their phones because it [TS]

01:29:25   becomes a thing to do and there's like [TS]

01:29:27   tutorials and videos about it like [TS]

01:29:29   people lots of people that shouldn't [TS]

01:29:31   would enable sideloading and then what [TS]

01:29:34   happens you can e-mail say all your you [TS]

01:29:36   get some someone puts up a notification [TS]

01:29:37   uh you know there are they slipped [TS]

01:29:40   something into the app store they put up [TS]

01:29:41   with Jimmy app to put on vacations do [TS]

01:29:42   you update something you click a button [TS]

01:29:44   and it goes to sorry uh original website [TS]

01:29:47   and downloads it cycles a nap because [TS]

01:29:49   you enabled it for some reason or other [TS]

01:29:50   and now you have met a malware type app [TS]

01:29:53   on your computer are on your phone and [TS]

01:29:55   the like this stuff will happen it [TS]

01:29:58   absolutely will happen and the fact that [TS]

01:30:00   right now the you see this on jailbroken [TS]

01:30:03   phones right when you see a report about [TS]

01:30:05   malware on the phone is almost always [TS]

01:30:07   happening to jailbroken phones & 2 [TS]

01:30:12   in that case you kind of brought it on [TS]

01:30:13   yourself it's super-clear you're doing [TS]

01:30:15   something you shouldn't do when you're [TS]

01:30:16   jailbreaking it if it was apple enabled [TS]

01:30:20   and apple endorsed even if not by [TS]

01:30:22   default just the number of people that [TS]

01:30:24   would do that and expose themselves [TS]

01:30:26   would be huge and it would it be support [TS]

01:30:29   nightmare for apple and it would be bad [TS]

01:30:31   for developers to people start getting [TS]

01:30:33   scared of apps again and that would be a [TS]

01:30:35   terrible place to be [TS]

01:30:36   what was the name of amazon there's a [TS]

01:30:39   company that Amazon's that like ranks [TS]

01:30:41   websites by traffic is that is a call [TS]

01:30:44   Alexa even know that now that's the name [TS]

01:30:47   is like their Serie type thing [TS]

01:30:48   no I was the name of that [TS]

01:30:50   and that used to get its measurements [TS]

01:30:52   through like the Amazon toolbar or [TS]

01:30:54   something like that was the name you [TS]

01:30:56   remember and it doesn't seem like [TS]

01:30:58   anybody really [TS]

01:30:58   oh yeah baby was made was alexa i think [TS]

01:31:01   it was called alexa but it was and they [TS]

01:31:02   do like a rankings invite the top [TS]

01:31:03   thousand websites and stuff like that [TS]

01:31:05   and when you have like the internet yeah [TS]

01:31:07   right i totally forgot about that [TS]

01:31:09   yeah that's what this is that's funny [TS]

01:31:11   one time a long time ago i was i was at [TS]

01:31:13   a conference and I got in i was cut into [TS]

01:31:18   a poker game late at night with a bunch [TS]

01:31:20   of people and one of the guys worked at [TS]

01:31:24   a lecture or something like that and [TS]

01:31:25   this was awhile ago maybe even like 10 [TS]

01:31:27   years ago and it was relaxing mattered [TS]

01:31:29   more and daring fireball was at the time [TS]

01:31:30   rated terribly and alexa i mean like way [TS]

01:31:33   their estimates of my web traffic were [TS]

01:31:35   way less than i knew it to be just [TS]

01:31:36   because I could look at my logs and I [TS]

01:31:39   asked him about and it didn't really [TS]

01:31:40   matter too much to me because the light [TS]

01:31:42   wasn't really interested in the type of [TS]

01:31:43   advertising that was like did at the [TS]

01:31:45   time they would you know if you wanted [TS]

01:31:47   like typical advert web advertising it [TS]

01:31:50   your Alexa ranking mattered in terms of [TS]

01:31:53   like the rate you get and I did wasn't [TS]

01:31:56   didn't want to pursue that we could do [TS]

01:31:57   it again we do all show about my [TS]

01:31:59   thoughts on web advertising but at least [TS]

01:32:00   in terms of like wow if I need to at [TS]

01:32:03   least I could it was like wow that door [TS]

01:32:05   isn't even open to me because I'm Way [TS]

01:32:06   undercounted and he said I of course [TS]

01:32:09   your way undercounted of course because [TS]

01:32:10   do you know all the measurements for [TS]

01:32:12   Alexa come from people who installed the [TS]

01:32:14   Amazon toolbar and almost everybody [TS]

01:32:16   installs the Amazon toolbar did it by [TS]

01:32:18   accident or doesn't how it got there and [TS]

01:32:20   your people are reading fireballer smart [TS]

01:32:22   enough not to install it and most of [TS]

01:32:23   them are on max where it doesn't even [TS]

01:32:24   run anyway it was thick [TS]

01:32:28   oh no matter of fact about it yeah right [TS]

01:32:30   but that's the exact same food i think [TS]

01:32:33   about those web tool bars a lot you know [TS]

01:32:34   the people used to get those and they do [TS]

01:32:36   you know he even said like we know that [TS]

01:32:37   most people get it don't even know how [TS]

01:32:38   they got it again there's never that's [TS]

01:32:41   never going to happen on iOS yeah anyway [TS]

01:32:44   I don't take a break and thank our next [TS]

01:32:46   sponsor hurry [TS]

01:32:47   that's right that it is our friends at [TS]

01:32:50   Harry's Harry's makes world-class [TS]

01:32:52   shaving products it's just a great [TS]

01:32:55   company big razor companies the big guys [TS]

01:32:58   gelatins those church they have the [TS]

01:33:01   annoying habit when they put out new [TS]

01:33:02   models they raised the are there all [TS]

01:33:04   pretty high prices if you want to get [TS]

01:33:05   their best product you have to pay more [TS]

01:33:07   than you're paying for the previous [TS]

01:33:08   product unlike those guys Harry's [TS]

01:33:10   doesn't believe in up charging that's [TS]

01:33:12   why they when they make their razors [TS]

01:33:14   even better they keep their prices [TS]

01:33:16   exactly the same Harry's five blade [TS]

01:33:18   razors now include this is brand-new [TS]

01:33:20   they have a softer flex hinge for a more [TS]

01:33:23   comfortable glide they have a new [TS]

01:33:25   trimmer blade like a little mini blade [TS]

01:33:28   for hard-to-reach places which I think [TS]

01:33:30   means for most men at least that little [TS]

01:33:32   area right underneath your nose which is [TS]

01:33:34   kinda hard to get with the full with [TS]

01:33:36   blade you know at least it is for me [TS]

01:33:39   so they've got that now they've got a [TS]

01:33:40   new lubricating strip that's even better [TS]

01:33:42   than before and their handles now I have [TS]

01:33:45   a texture for a better feel when it's [TS]

01:33:48   wet [TS]

01:33:49   I have one of the new handles I my old [TS]

01:33:51   handle I've had my original handle from [TS]

01:33:54   Harry's since they first started [TS]

01:33:56   sponsoring the show and if you're a [TS]

01:33:57   longtime listener the show its years ago [TS]

01:33:59   I don't know how many years ago but [TS]

01:34:01   years ago they first started sponsoring [TS]

01:34:02   they sent me a pack i looked at the [TS]

01:34:04   other day it looks like it's in mint [TS]

01:34:06   condition it is literally looks like i [TS]

01:34:08   could just say that it just got here [TS]

01:34:10   like last week that's out how built to [TS]

01:34:12   last their stuff is but i have to say [TS]

01:34:14   the textured handle is so much better [TS]

01:34:16   because it really does it it's less [TS]

01:34:19   slippery and it you know really feels [TS]

01:34:20   like it makes me that even though I've [TS]

01:34:22   been a big fan of their stuff for years [TS]

01:34:23   it makes me wonder why the original one [TS]

01:34:24   didn't have this texture well they make [TS]

01:34:26   it better [TS]

01:34:28   they've made it better same prices it [TS]

01:34:30   used to be still just to box / blade [TS]

01:34:32   compared to four dollars or more that [TS]

01:34:34   you'll pay at the drugstore for top [TS]

01:34:36   blades from other companies they own [TS]

01:34:38   their own factory in Germany where they [TS]

01:34:39   make the blades they they own it right [TS]

01:34:41   from bra steel to the blade that ships [TS]

01:34:44   to your house so they can produce [TS]

01:34:45   high-quality razors themselves and sell [TS]

01:34:48   them online for half the price because [TS]

01:34:49   there are many middlemen they make [TS]

01:34:51   blades they package them up in really [TS]

01:34:52   cool packaging excellent packaging and [TS]

01:34:55   ship them right to you [TS]

01:34:56   so there's no middle man you say how can [TS]

01:34:58   they charge half what other companies do [TS]

01:34:59   because other companies make them and [TS]

01:35:01   sell them to a distributor and in the [TS]

01:35:02   distributor sells them to you know [TS]

01:35:05   walgreens or CVS or walmart wherever the [TS]

01:35:08   hell you're buying from every step along [TS]

01:35:09   the way its marked up [TS]

01:35:10   well Harry's just makes this these great [TS]

01:35:13   products and they sell them correct to [TS]

01:35:15   you [TS]

01:35:16   they're so confident in the quality of [TS]

01:35:19   their blades that they will send you [TS]

01:35:20   their popular free trial set which comes [TS]

01:35:23   with a razor five blade cartridge and [TS]

01:35:27   shaving gel [TS]

01:35:28   it's free when you sign up for a shave [TS]

01:35:30   plan you just pay for the shipping [TS]

01:35:34   there's also a special offer for fans of [TS]

01:35:37   this show get a bottle of Harry's post [TS]

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01:35:42   when you visit harrods.com and use the [TS]

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01:35:54   talk show at checkout and claim your [TS]

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01:36:01   harrods.com code talk show great sponsor [TS]

01:36:05   what else we got on the agenda for today [TS]

01:36:12   Oh hilariously I cannot find the the [TS]

01:36:14   browser tab head that's it [TS]

01:36:16   it's a he did that go back I gotta write [TS]

01:36:18   a message at we can go . it so I now [TS]

01:36:20   have it open dice my computer and I [TS]

01:36:21   wonder why end up with under Dave's I [TS]

01:36:23   about Twitter getting acquired what are [TS]

01:36:26   your thoughts on that hasn't happened [TS]

01:36:27   yet [TS]

01:36:29   I for Twitter it sorted out its there's [TS]

01:36:33   so much smoke is one of those where [TS]

01:36:34   there's smoke there's fire type things [TS]

01:36:36   and yeah I think that's Twitter [TS]

01:36:37   generated smoke because they wanted i do [TS]

01:36:41   think they were wants to be sold yet [TS]

01:36:44   with a problem the twitters stuck in the [TS]

01:36:46   end the reason they're stuck is that the [TS]

01:36:48   company is overvalued for what it is [TS]

01:36:51   right now and it has been for a long [TS]

01:36:52   time [TS]

01:36:53   the problem is that the number one thing [TS]

01:36:55   I suspect that is propping up the stock [TS]

01:36:57   price is the presumption that someone's [TS]

01:36:59   gonna buy it but it's keeping the price [TS]

01:37:02   high enough that no one wants to buy it [TS]

01:37:03   so it like the the price needs to go [TS]

01:37:06   down for it to be a viable acquisition [TS]

01:37:10   but it won't go down because people are [TS]

01:37:14   counting on it not going down part i'm [TS]

01:37:15   getting a good price for the stock so [TS]

01:37:17   it's really kind of stuck in this sort [TS]

01:37:19   of catch-22 situation there was a arm [TS]

01:37:21   you know that everyone always think [TS]

01:37:23   about the sheet requires like Google [TS]

01:37:25   makes a lot of sense i've written about [TS]

01:37:26   this i've written but it's a fair bit i [TS]

01:37:27   wrote a post a while ago we [TS]

01:37:28   is in the day update but walking [TS]

01:37:31   throughout the Twitter self scenarios [TS]

01:37:32   and who should buy the problems with it [TS]

01:37:34   Google is all obviously was always made [TS]

01:37:36   the most sense in part because they have [TS]

01:37:39   a socket social they did that sort of [TS]

01:37:41   having a feed and Twitter needs to go to [TS]

01:37:45   somebody who can a where if you just go [TS]

01:37:49   to some random company you have all [TS]

01:37:51   Twitter's problems are going with you [TS]

01:37:52   where's google already has advertising [TS]

01:37:53   scale for example they already have [TS]

01:37:55   automated selling with something Twitter [TS]

01:37:56   really found facedown like they're still [TS]

01:37:58   selling the best for their money still [TS]

01:37:59   made by like selling ads to big [TS]

01:38:02   companies or big ad agencies as opposed [TS]

01:38:05   to like the mom-and-pop signing up to [TS]

01:38:06   facebook or google which scales so much [TS]

01:38:09   better and makes it makes a lot of money [TS]

01:38:10   for them [TS]

01:38:12   we're never really got that working [TS]

01:38:13   going to let Google that already has [TS]

01:38:15   that infrastructure in place makes sense [TS]

01:38:17   the problem is google is Twitter sign [TS]

01:38:19   this deal with google a year-and-a-half [TS]

01:38:21   ago 21 give Google other data and [TS]

01:38:25   actually unquote fire hose right and to [TS]

01:38:28   to incorporate with double clicks maybe [TS]

01:38:30   part of the system which means google [TS]

01:38:32   basically got really outside of like [TS]

01:38:35   owning it and what they could do with it [TS]

01:38:37   they got everything they need from [TS]

01:38:38   Twitter they got the data and they got [TS]

01:38:40   the platform to sell ads against my why [TS]

01:38:42   buy it when they got everything they [TS]

01:38:44   already need [TS]

01:38:45   why buy the cow when you're getting the [TS]

01:38:46   milk for free right exactly exactly so [TS]

01:38:49   that there was a real there's a good [TS]

01:38:51   post by armed uh I think it's john [TS]

01:38:54   brought his brother capital is the site [TS]

01:38:56   he's this guy in Australia is famous for [TS]

01:38:57   doing these deep dive investigations of [TS]

01:38:59   companies and he can like drive their [TS]

01:39:01   stock down like like no tomorrow but he [TS]

01:39:03   did a arm he he wrote it i thought was [TS]

01:39:07   over a good post and I I haven't written [TS]

01:39:10   about his post specifically but [TS]

01:39:11   basically his point is I think it's a [TS]

01:39:14   fair point we always intact we always [TS]

01:39:15   think about the strategic value of [TS]

01:39:16   Twitter and that's why Google should buy [TS]

01:39:18   for example or like Salesforce has been [TS]

01:39:21   a big rumor and they're going to get [TS]

01:39:22   data on and all that sort of thing but [TS]

01:39:24   his point was that like [TS]

01:39:25   cool twitter makes a fair bit of revenue [TS]

01:39:28   the problem is their costs are just [TS]

01:39:31   enormous and particularly want to [TS]

01:39:32   include stock-based compensation either [TS]

01:39:34   lose like 500 million dollars a year [TS]

01:39:36   which is just a massive amount of money [TS]

01:39:38   is a pretty stable amount of money and [TS]

01:39:40   they've been increasing over the [TS]

01:39:41   past several years while the revenues [TS]

01:39:43   out they've increased their employee [TS]

01:39:45   basic usually increase their costs [TS]

01:39:47   hugely me and his point is this business [TS]

01:39:49   is what it is [TS]

01:39:50   if you basically go in there and clean [TS]

01:39:53   house and just keep the business running [TS]

01:39:56   as it is it could actually be a [TS]

01:39:58   profitable company that throws off a [TS]

01:40:00   fair amount of cash so he thinks that it [TS]

01:40:02   needs the this best place for them is [TS]

01:40:04   like a leveraged buyout and someone goes [TS]

01:40:06   in just cleans house gets rid of a bunch [TS]

01:40:07   staff like cleans up the company makes a [TS]

01:40:10   profitable and then and then sells it [TS]

01:40:12   and then it'd be much more palatable for [TS]

01:40:14   salesforce the buyer for google by the [TS]

01:40:16   problem of course is Twitter very well [TS]

01:40:18   may die along the way it's easy for me [TS]

01:40:20   to say and I really hate to be callous [TS]

01:40:23   about it I really do because you know [TS]

01:40:25   job is important thing but I never at [TS]

01:40:28   the headcount group at Twitter makes no [TS]

01:40:30   sense to me at all [TS]

01:40:31   it it it's I don't understand and i'm a [TS]

01:40:35   long I mean a very early user number you [TS]

01:40:39   know I think I send up in late $MONTH [TS]

01:40:40   2006 long time user I have a lot of [TS]

01:40:45   followers a that you know I i think i [TS]

01:40:49   get twitter and i know that you know [TS]

01:40:51   different people use twitter in [TS]

01:40:52   different ways but I i love Twitter I [TS]

01:40:57   really do i use it everyday it is it's [TS]

01:40:59   really turned into the primary way that [TS]

01:41:02   interact with readers daring fireball [TS]

01:41:03   more for more sore than email and it's [TS]

01:41:08   you know it's funny I think it's one [TS]

01:41:11   thing i never get anymore ever [TS]

01:41:13   I can't remember the last time honestly [TS]

01:41:15   I might even be years since somebody's [TS]

01:41:16   complained about the fact that daring [TS]

01:41:18   fireball doesn't have comments on [TS]

01:41:19   articles and part of it is that I think [TS]

01:41:21   that it you know it's it's become clear [TS]

01:41:24   to more and more people that I was right [TS]

01:41:26   all along that comments on articles are [TS]

01:41:28   not a good idea but I think the bigger [TS]

01:41:31   one of the bigger reasons is that it [TS]

01:41:33   more and more people realized that that [TS]

01:41:35   Twitter conversations with at Gruber are [TS]

01:41:40   just as good [TS]

01:41:41   you know it's or at least better i think [TS]

01:41:44   actually you know that there's an [TS]

01:41:46   interaction with me and with other [TS]

01:41:48   readers you know who you know who follow [TS]

01:41:50   me [TS]

01:41:51   it's a fantastic thing I don't [TS]

01:41:53   understand why there's so many [TS]

01:41:55   people who work at twitter it's it's [TS]

01:41:56   already does what it does i don't [TS]

01:41:58   understand what what is going on there [TS]

01:41:59   and it's yeah they had numbers are the [TS]

01:42:02   numbers are all sorry I think we want to [TS]

01:42:03   talk to us last time but Dustin Curtis [TS]

01:42:05   posted the revenue per employee for 2015 [TS]

01:42:09   yes and yeah Yahoo was at the bottom 419 [TS]

01:42:13   thousand per employee [TS]

01:42:14   twitter is for $MONEY and sixty-two [TS]

01:42:15   thousand per employee so what ya whoever [TS]

01:42:17   microsoft 789 thousand google 1.1 [TS]

01:42:21   million per employee facebook 1.4 [TS]

01:42:23   million and Apple 2 million per employee [TS]

01:42:24   and then you get to profit & Louisiana [TS]

01:42:27   was making a product for employees back [TS]

01:42:29   then [TS]

01:42:29   twitter was losing a hundred and thirty [TS]

01:42:31   thousand dollars per employee right i [TS]

01:42:33   mean Facebook's making 290,000 apple [TS]

01:42:36   speaking foreign 60,000 I mean it's yeah [TS]

01:42:38   it's it is there's this weird attitude [TS]

01:42:42   about Twitter and you see this all the [TS]

01:42:44   time like all twitter has so much [TS]

01:42:45   potential like all the twitter is did [TS]

01:42:48   twitter is a ten-year-old company right [TS]

01:42:51   like at some point use needle it's [TS]

01:42:54   almost like treating them disrespect [TS]

01:42:56   that they're like this little like this [TS]

01:42:58   incapable sort of being like we should [TS]

01:43:02   expect more from table company and then [TS]

01:43:05   twitter is been dude I've written two [TS]

01:43:07   tons of it we've talked about like [TS]

01:43:09   twitter has been grossly mismanaged for [TS]

01:43:11   many years and yeah I i agree with with [TS]

01:43:14   the Wall Street guy like I think someone [TS]

01:43:16   is gonna win clean house [TS]

01:43:18   yes I get that there's a talent you you [TS]

01:43:21   was gonna lose a lot of talent without [TS]

01:43:22   value employees but at some point the [TS]

01:43:26   service does what it does [TS]

01:43:27   people like you and i love it like he [TS]

01:43:29   needs or total reset it just needs to [TS]

01:43:31   the total reset and I hope it survives [TS]

01:43:34   the process but continue on this path is [TS]

01:43:36   is I don't know doesn't lessen what is [TS]

01:43:39   going on with the headcount of Instagram [TS]

01:43:41   now that they're fully absorbed part of [TS]

01:43:44   facebook but before facebook bought them [TS]

01:43:48   instagram 30 people write it was like 12 [TS]

01:43:51   people until it got to the point where [TS]

01:43:52   they needed and you know I think they [TS]

01:43:54   might have had more ops people you know [TS]

01:43:56   then then product people just because it [TS]

01:43:58   was so popular but it was you could [TS]

01:44:01   reasonably put them on a bus and drive [TS]

01:44:03   mall to the airport together and forget [TS]

01:44:04   you know [TS]

01:44:06   offsite I mean it was it the right [TS]

01:44:07   company would fit in a bus and was doing [TS]

01:44:11   something of similar scale and nature [TS]

01:44:14   and complexity is twitter i'm not saying [TS]

01:44:17   Twitter should be 30 people at this [TS]

01:44:19   point but it should be a lot closer to [TS]

01:44:21   30 than where they are now and and I [TS]

01:44:23   think part of it is an Instagram is is [TS]

01:44:26   to me the comparison not facebook it [TS]

01:44:29   it's now I'm not saying that Twitter [TS]

01:44:32   should say that they're done and say [TS]

01:44:33   okay we've done it you know but they're [TS]

01:44:35   there [TS]

01:44:36   they've been closer to done then then [TS]

01:44:39   not done for a while like the whole [TS]

01:44:41   point of twitter much like Instagram is [TS]

01:44:43   that it's conceptually very simple [TS]

01:44:45   that's that's the appeal and is actually [TS]

01:44:48   part of the point of it that it's you [TS]

01:44:50   pick who you want to follow you'll see [TS]

01:44:52   what the people who you've chosen to [TS]

01:44:53   follow post and then you can post and [TS]

01:44:56   the people who've chosen to follow you [TS]

01:44:58   will see what you've posted and that [TS]

01:45:00   that basic that simplicity it sounds so [TS]

01:45:04   simply well that doesn't even count but [TS]

01:45:06   it's like no nobody never actually [TS]

01:45:07   thought of that before [TS]

01:45:08   there's a genius in in that but they [TS]

01:45:11   really it's not the sort of thing where [TS]

01:45:13   they need massive ongoing development [TS]

01:45:18   yeah it's all it's almost like a UH is [TS]

01:45:21   like twitter is a perfectly like the [TS]

01:45:23   strategy for twitter has always been to [TS]

01:45:26   they have a cost problem but they've [TS]

01:45:29   always their goal has always been to [TS]

01:45:31   grow out of that cost problem if that [TS]

01:45:33   makes sense like they're gonna get big [TS]

01:45:35   enough to get scale where the cost makes [TS]

01:45:37   sense and that that is a it's a [TS]

01:45:40   reasonable way of thinking that the way [TS]

01:45:41   companies operate by the the the problem [TS]

01:45:44   is that it's just not that big of a [TS]

01:45:45   business like Twitter on Twitter makes a [TS]

01:45:47   few billion dollars a year in revenue [TS]

01:45:48   like it that should be enough to have a [TS]

01:45:50   viable business given what it is i think [TS]

01:45:53   parts gets into all the problems that [TS]

01:45:54   Twitter had in management and all the [TS]

01:45:56   problems they had it in their board and [TS]

01:45:58   in the the fighting between at seven [TS]

01:46:00   jack is they they ended the classes they [TS]

01:46:03   probably took on too much venture money [TS]

01:46:05   in the long run they do is build a [TS]

01:46:07   business more quickly enough and they [TS]

01:46:08   got to a state where they had a sort of [TS]

01:46:10   bloated apparatus that the easiest and [TS]

01:46:15   most obvious way was to what we can grow [TS]

01:46:17   revenue big enough will [TS]

01:46:19   outgrow our bloat it needs a reset like [TS]

01:46:21   the the services what is obviously the [TS]

01:46:23   the abuse problems are real it needs to [TS]

01:46:26   be addressed but I think even there you [TS]

01:46:28   have all these bad incentives going on [TS]

01:46:30   like killing spam hurts don't the active [TS]

01:46:33   user account right banning people [TS]

01:46:35   perspective user glycan you have there's [TS]

01:46:39   all these bad incentives in place for [TS]

01:46:41   twitter as the public company as they [TS]

01:46:43   are now and yeah I i really come around [TS]

01:46:46   I think to this sort of like I get the [TS]

01:46:48   talent issue i get that people are going [TS]

01:46:50   to flee twitter if it's not Wall Street [TS]

01:46:52   guy comes in and cleans house but it at [TS]

01:46:55   i think we're to the point where it's [TS]

01:46:59   like yes the surgery might kill the [TS]

01:47:00   patient but without the surgery the [TS]

01:47:02   patient is not going anywhere and you [TS]

01:47:04   can't lose 500 million dollars a year [TS]

01:47:05   forever Josh but they had a big drop-off [TS]

01:47:12   who was it was just recently the stock [TS]

01:47:14   got run up on the rumors that they might [TS]

01:47:16   get acquired and then like yeah this was [TS]

01:47:20   it yeah whatever [TS]

01:47:22   yes else was the lead one but it really [TS]

01:47:24   sounds like particularly where the [TS]

01:47:26   week's came out they were kind of known [TS]

01:47:28   Twitter channels so like Salesforce [TS]

01:47:31   expressed interest in trying to drum up [TS]

01:47:33   other interests and then everyone's like [TS]

01:47:35   not interested in the stock crash back [TS]

01:47:37   down [TS]

01:47:38   yeah anyway I love Twitter I hope it [TS]

01:47:41   works out but i do think that I guess [TS]

01:47:43   I've come around on google I mean my [TS]

01:47:45   antipathy towards google is just a [TS]

01:47:47   general I'd in general I just don't like [TS]

01:47:51   Google and I don't trust them with with [TS]

01:47:54   data and I don't want I don't want my [TS]

01:47:56   twitter account tied to a google ID and [TS]

01:47:58   I don't you know I don't know what [TS]

01:48:00   google would want to do in that regard [TS]

01:48:01   if they were to 12 by him but on the [TS]

01:48:03   other art hand if the right people at [TS]

01:48:05   Google were in charge of it and they [TS]

01:48:06   just saw it as well we've you know we've [TS]

01:48:08   got this incredible resource of instant [TS]

01:48:11   news of what everybody around the world [TS]

01:48:13   is talking about it you know i could see [TS]

01:48:15   them handling it well and Google you [TS]

01:48:17   know has shown it you know history of [TS]

01:48:20   like when they first monetize search [TS]

01:48:22   results of you know not messing with [TS]

01:48:25   what made it good in the first place [TS]

01:48:27   yeah the only other one the other one [TS]

01:48:30   interesting here's another example where [TS]

01:48:32   where where Google a kind of consider [TS]

01:48:36   themselves but is accompanied by [TS]

01:48:39   bloomberg we're so do of course [TS]

01:48:43   Bloomberg has a deal with twitter [TS]

01:48:44   twitter gives them all their data for a [TS]

01:48:47   price that's way too old for what it's [TS]

01:48:49   worth but it if there was a queen of [TS]

01:48:52   house and Twitter survived it and like [TS]

01:48:55   the there's really valuable stuff and [TS]

01:48:57   Twitter I I use Twitter a fair bit for [TS]

01:49:00   uh if you want to find interesting like [TS]

01:49:03   Sam write about a topic and i were [TS]

01:49:05   really want to understand more about I [TS]

01:49:06   want to get different points of view [TS]

01:49:07   like yes I use nuzzle like personally [TS]

01:49:10   that services stuff but it's a more [TS]

01:49:12   obscure sort of thing like Twitter [TS]

01:49:14   search is actually one of the best ways [TS]

01:49:16   to uncover interesting off the beat sort [TS]

01:49:20   of poster articles about about any [TS]

01:49:22   particular topic like because just the [TS]

01:49:24   just the the nature of the data is [TS]

01:49:27   different than something like Google and [TS]

01:49:29   it there's a lot of value there it i had [TS]

01:49:32   it's not clear its value that's best [TS]

01:49:34   monetized by advertising and this can go [TS]

01:49:37   back to the very you know beginning back [TS]

01:49:39   you know when the decisions were made [TS]

01:49:41   about Twitter and how to monetize if [TS]

01:49:43   Twitter came along later it would be [TS]

01:49:44   interesting if you know didn't have [TS]

01:49:47   obviously the executive upheaval but in [TS]

01:49:50   a world where it's clear that Google and [TS]

01:49:52   Facebook are going to really dominate [TS]

01:49:53   advertising art online and had there [TS]

01:49:57   been more creativity with twitter i mean [TS]

01:50:00   it would well we we've said this a [TS]

01:50:03   million times like they own like imagine [TS]

01:50:05   someone owned the protocol behind email [TS]

01:50:07   right away how valuable could that be [TS]

01:50:10   like that's what twitter twitter had [TS]

01:50:14   maybe still hasn't had the potential to [TS]

01:50:16   own basically a messaging protocol for [TS]

01:50:19   the internet and in part because of [TS]

01:50:22   modernization concerns apart because [TS]

01:50:24   just general ineptitude like I still [TS]

01:50:26   can't believe that Twitter band links [TS]

01:50:28   and direct messages for two years but [TS]

01:50:30   they could have owned like a messaging [TS]

01:50:33   protocol for the internet it but they [TS]

01:50:35   didn't align up into the business model [TS]

01:50:37   that that enable that they chose [TS]

01:50:39   advertising the clothes other [TS]

01:50:40   third-party stuff [TS]

01:50:42   and it's a shame if it's one of the [TS]

01:50:44   biggest like what could have been but I [TS]

01:50:46   still think Twitter could have been a [TS]

01:50:49   massive company but they would have had [TS]

01:50:51   to have been very different choices made [TS]

01:50:53   you know five six years ago [TS]

01:50:54   yeah I let me take one last break here [TS]

01:50:58   and thank our third and final sponsor to [TS]

01:51:02   brand new sponsor i'm very excited about [TS]

01:51:04   this company called away away makes [TS]

01:51:09   first-class luggage at coach prices [TS]

01:51:12   these high-quality materials just like [TS]

01:51:15   other brands but offer much lower prices [TS]

01:51:17   by $PERCENT and this is a recurring [TS]

01:51:19   theme with podcast sponsors cutting out [TS]

01:51:22   the middlemen and selling directly to [TS]

01:51:25   you [TS]

01:51:25   so they've got three sizes one of my [TS]

01:51:27   favorite things with away is that's just [TS]

01:51:29   what they do they've got added all the [TS]

01:51:31   same quality and they've got three sizes [TS]

01:51:32   the carrion guess what fits and carry on [TS]

01:51:35   overhead been the medium and the large [TS]

01:51:37   huh you ever go I i actually am in the [TS]

01:51:42   market for a carry-on bag i've been [TS]

01:51:43   using the same one for like 15 years and [TS]

01:51:45   it literally is like ripped apart and [TS]

01:51:47   stuff that I put in the one in the front [TS]

01:51:48   pocket actually usually false and into [TS]

01:51:50   the the main comparison probably he's [TS]

01:51:52   not gonna do it doesn't fall out of the [TS]

01:51:54   suitcase it falls from the little front [TS]

01:51:56   zipper plaque thing into the main [TS]

01:51:58   compartment but you go to like these [TS]

01:52:01   other brands and and they've got like [TS]

01:52:03   and you know they call it like the [TS]

01:52:05   executive and the junior executive and [TS]

01:52:07   the overnight executive and the cheat on [TS]

01:52:09   his wife executive and it's all like 21 [TS]

01:52:12   inches three coffee I just spit it out [TS]

01:52:14   it's like it's like the difference [TS]

01:52:15   between them is that gives a 22 inches [TS]

01:52:17   or 21 and a half inches or 21 and [TS]

01:52:19   three-quarters inches hires 14 or 15 [TS]

01:52:22   inches wide who needs they've got three [TS]

01:52:25   sizes the overhead one fits in at least [TS]

01:52:28   here in the US fits in all of the [TS]

01:52:30   overhead bins of all the airlines I've [TS]

01:52:32   ever flown on which is all i need the [TS]

01:52:36   suitcases are made with premium German [TS]

01:52:38   poly carbonate unrivaled in strength and [TS]

01:52:41   impact resistance and very lightweight [TS]

01:52:43   it actually looks to me like they're [TS]

01:52:44   three or four pounds lighter than a lot [TS]

01:52:46   of other premium brands the interior [TS]

01:52:48   features a patent-pending compression [TS]

01:52:50   system useful for over Packers that's me [TS]

01:52:52   because I like to just carry a carry-on [TS]

01:52:55   instead of checking a bag for 360 degree [TS]

01:52:59   spinner wheels guarantee smooth ride i [TS]

01:53:01   will never buy a suitcase again that [TS]

01:53:03   doesn't have for the four wheels never [TS]

01:53:05   sometimes it really is so much more [TS]

01:53:07   convenient to just push them along [TS]

01:53:08   rather than pull them on two wheels they [TS]

01:53:10   have a tsa approved combination lock [TS]

01:53:12   built into the top of the bag removable [TS]

01:53:15   washable laundry bag keep your dirty [TS]

01:53:17   clothes separate from the clean they [TS]

01:53:18   just give it to you it's right there in [TS]

01:53:20   the bag and now here's the part where [TS]

01:53:22   that is why they sponsoring the talk [TS]

01:53:24   show is this is just a brilliant feature [TS]

01:53:28   i love this [TS]

01:53:29   it comes with a built-in 10,000 milliamp [TS]

01:53:34   battery charger and you can take it out [TS]

01:53:37   so you can charge it you can take it out [TS]

01:53:39   of the suitcase and charge it somewhere [TS]

01:53:40   else you have to have the suitcase at [TS]

01:53:42   your desk to charge it or wherever [TS]

01:53:44   you're going to charge it but then you [TS]

01:53:45   charge this thing up you put it in a [TS]

01:53:46   suitcase and then you've got USB ports [TS]

01:53:48   right on top of the suitcase so while [TS]

01:53:50   you're sitting there at like the waiting [TS]

01:53:52   for your flight to board you you got a [TS]

01:53:55   massive portable battery to charge [TS]

01:53:58   anything that needs to be charged right [TS]

01:54:00   there on top of the suitcase [TS]

01:54:02   what a great idea lifetime warranty if [TS]

01:54:06   anything baby and it's got a couple of [TS]

01:54:08   ports you can have you know like one for [TS]

01:54:09   you one for your significant other your [TS]

01:54:11   kid or something like that or charge [TS]

01:54:12   your iPhone and your iPad at the same [TS]

01:54:14   time [TS]

01:54:14   what a great idea I never go to the [TS]

01:54:17   airport without a portable battery [TS]

01:54:18   charger wouldn't be great not to have it [TS]

01:54:20   in my pocket have a right build into the [TS]

01:54:22   suitcase brilliant it's a suitcase for [TS]

01:54:24   today's age lifetime warranty if [TS]

01:54:27   anything breaks they'll fix it or [TS]

01:54:29   replace it for life hundred day free [TS]

01:54:31   trial live with it [TS]

01:54:32   vibe with it travel with instagram it [TS]

01:54:35   and if at any point decided not for you [TS]

01:54:37   can return it for a full refund no [TS]

01:54:38   questions asked hundred days so you get [TS]

01:54:41   free shipping on anyway order within the [TS]

01:54:43   continental United States sorry for [TS]

01:54:45   everybody outside the continental United [TS]

01:54:47   States you still buy one and like I said [TS]

01:54:51   the carry-on size is compliant with all [TS]

01:54:53   the major airlines really I this sounds [TS]

01:54:57   like a great product i don't have one [TS]

01:54:59   right now i'm going to buy one because i [TS]

01:55:00   need new suitcase and [TS]

01:55:02   that's the prices are significantly less [TS]

01:55:06   than the ones i have had been looking at [TS]

01:55:07   from other brands really really great [TS]

01:55:10   stuff where do you go to find out more [TS]

01:55:14   you go to a way travel.com / talk show [TS]

01:55:22   that's the URL away travel.com / talk [TS]

01:55:26   show and they'll know you came from the [TS]

01:55:28   show go check them out if your need for [TS]

01:55:30   a suitcase here's the prices the Karen's [TS]

01:55:32   225 the medium is 275 and the largest [TS]

01:55:35   295 so all three of them are under 300 [TS]

01:55:38   bucks this carrion i was looking at the [TS]

01:55:40   other day from another company was like [TS]

01:55:42   seven hundred dollars so this is a lot [TS]

01:55:44   less good colors everything anything you [TS]

01:55:47   can say about it [TS]

01:55:48   so anyway go check them out away [TS]

01:55:49   travel.com / talk show it just do a [TS]

01:55:53   quick follow-up the it is bronte capital [TS]

01:55:55   but the author is John Hampton it's not [TS]

01:55:58   noticeable how do you spell Bronte and [TS]

01:55:59   his bone BR 0 NT e capital and it's [TS]

01:56:03   actually a blogspot site . blogspot com [TS]

01:56:05   so euro and te yeah [TS]

01:56:09   pron te capital C API tal . blogspot com [TS]

01:56:14   all right and what's the author's name [TS]

01:56:15   John Hampton Hampton alright there we go [TS]

01:56:18   what else is on our agenda we're never [TS]

01:56:21   going to get to all this are we [TS]

01:56:23   I don't be which is too bad because [TS]

01:56:24   they're both interesting so there's [TS]

01:56:25   Syria must Walt Mossberg row 2 column [TS]

01:56:28   and then at augmented review in which [TS]

01:56:30   actually I'm why I liked about that we [TS]

01:56:33   can go through all this we can do it [TS]

01:56:35   I let's talk about the google pixel [TS]

01:56:37   phones we I think we can do this one [TS]

01:56:39   pretty quickly I ordered one I didn't [TS]

01:56:41   know if you did [TS]

01:56:42   yeah I did I haven't bought an android [TS]

01:56:45   phone i think in two years and it was [TS]

01:56:46   two years ago when I bought this moto x [TS]

01:56:48   and I try to stay on top of it [TS]

01:56:50   I regretted it the moment I got it this [TS]

01:56:52   moto x is a piece of crap and I should [TS]

01:56:56   have gotten a nexus and I regret that I [TS]

01:56:58   just got out of the 6p last year I swore [TS]

01:57:02   that I would never buy another android [TS]

01:57:03   phone that wasn't a nexus and now [TS]

01:57:05   they've just abandon the nexus name and [TS]

01:57:07   you know taking more control over design [TS]

01:57:10   and Colin pixels inside to me it's the [TS]

01:57:11   only way to try and [TS]

01:57:13   the phone I mean look at me by Samsung [TS]

01:57:15   and the things going to say on fire but [TS]

01:57:18   I have no interest in a samsung not [TS]

01:57:19   because I don't think there is no I [TS]

01:57:21   don't want to kick dirt on her mother on [TS]

01:57:24   fire but the fire put dirt puts out [TS]

01:57:28   fuckers i know for a fact from two [TS]

01:57:30   minutes of dicking around with one in a [TS]

01:57:32   cell phone store that I have no interest [TS]

01:57:33   in buying one because of the shitty [TS]

01:57:35   software that they put on top of Android [TS]

01:57:37   i can tell i want to use the Android [TS]

01:57:39   that comes from google you don't get it [TS]

01:57:40   from Samsung you can't get it from them [TS]

01:57:42   so i have no interest in it I have no [TS]

01:57:44   idea why anybody who cares about this [TS]

01:57:46   stuff whatever by the samsung phone so [TS]

01:57:48   anyway I bought a pixel about the 5 inch [TS]

01:57:50   model and black and I was so torn over [TS]

01:57:53   whether to get the 32 gigabyte one or [TS]

01:57:57   all the same here 128i I honestly [TS]

01:58:00   despite to cost me three days and I've [TS]

01:58:03   got further behind in the shipping q [TS]

01:58:05   because I couldn't decide which one to [TS]

01:58:06   buy because I thought I with my with the [TS]

01:58:10   iphone I've always bought the largest [TS]

01:58:12   capacity one there is even this year i [TS]

01:58:14   got the 256 even though my my old phone [TS]

01:58:16   was only it like I don't know like a [TS]

01:58:18   hundred or so or 90 some had plenty of [TS]

01:58:21   space i needed more than 64 but I was [TS]

01:58:23   well under 128 and I probably would be [TS]

01:58:25   for another year but I just don't even [TS]

01:58:27   worry about if I want to shoot 4k video [TS]

01:58:29   shoot 4k video and off to clear it off [TS]

01:58:32   with the pixel I really am ninety-nine [TS]

01:58:36   percent sure it's not going to become my [TS]

01:58:38   daily phone just in case it does well or [TS]

01:58:41   just in case i did thought that occurs [TS]

01:58:43   to me is what if I'm testing it and like [TS]

01:58:45   some something really fascinating a [TS]

01:58:47   newsworthy happens and i want to start [TS]

01:58:49   shooting 4k video you know I don't want [TS]

01:58:52   to you know have it fill up so I got 12 [TS]

01:58:57   i got the same model that are [TS]

01:58:58   degenerating 128 now I ended up and and [TS]

01:59:01   I you know money two squirts through my [TS]

01:59:03   hands my fingers like water but i ended [TS]

01:59:06   up saving a hundred dollars this one [TS]

01:59:08   time i bought the 32 gigabyte version [TS]

01:59:09   idea a guide to get the 128 it is there [TS]

01:59:14   to me this product is is absolutely [TS]

01:59:16   fascinating and its continued it looks [TS]

01:59:20   like at the 120 yeah I even went to the [TS]

01:59:22   next day I even went to change my order [TS]

01:59:24   and it was too late [TS]

01:59:25   it's again that processing queue [TS]

01:59:27   yes I would have had to cancel it and go [TS]

01:59:28   to the end of the qtr that our i'll [TS]

01:59:30   stick with it [TS]

01:59:31   alright why are you fascinated by it so [TS]

01:59:35   the most interesting thing is I'm gonna [TS]

01:59:37   go back i have like i mentioned i have [TS]

01:59:39   the Wits the 6p though the wily one from [TS]

01:59:42   last year [TS]

01:59:42   very nice phone I and i still find [TS]

01:59:45   android android frustrating like it for [TS]

01:59:50   me the like scrolling is like my the [TS]

01:59:53   white well for me and android like I [TS]

01:59:55   just it just it's like nails scratching [TS]

01:59:58   on the chalk mark in [TS]

01:59:58   on the chalk mark in [TS]

02:00:00   rising up the wall ah but what's [TS]

02:00:03   interesting is my 6p is not getting the [TS]

02:00:05   google assistant so you go back to the [TS]

02:00:07   way they opened up that presentation [TS]

02:00:09   they didn't start out with the hardware [TS]

02:00:11   they started out by talking about like [TS]

02:00:13   the history of tax executives the PC era [TS]

02:00:15   and then there was the Internet era and [TS]

02:00:17   then there was the mobile area now we're [TS]

02:00:19   in the era which I don't think I don't [TS]

02:00:21   think I don't quite agree that i talked [TS]

02:00:23   about that on an exponent on this last [TS]

02:00:26   week but the point is it's all about [TS]

02:00:29   Google assistant and then from there [TS]

02:00:31   they went to the pixel phone so that was [TS]

02:00:34   the framing for interesting the phone [TS]

02:00:35   and they weren't selling a phone they [TS]

02:00:37   were selling access to the google [TS]

02:00:39   assistant what's so interesting is [TS]

02:00:41   google assistant is not a part of [TS]

02:00:44   Android it does not it's not going to be [TS]

02:00:46   on the Nexus phones it's not on phone [TS]

02:00:49   from third parties at all they can use [TS]

02:00:50   their own since they wanted in samsung [TS]

02:00:52   bot viv but another assistant and I've [TS]

02:00:56   heard rumors that it might be available [TS]

02:00:59   i'm not sure if it and I suspect not if [TS]

02:01:01   it is all I will have thoughts about [TS]

02:01:04   that because what's interesting is if [TS]

02:01:06   that framing is right that they're [TS]

02:01:07   moving to a new world of this assistant [TS]

02:01:10   world then that sounds like a really [TS]

02:01:14   good news from google right because the [TS]

02:01:16   sort of this assistant stuff is right in [TS]

02:01:18   their wheelhouse we can get into the [TS]

02:01:20   quality assistant i think that i'm not [TS]

02:01:22   sure LOL is a good representation of how [TS]

02:01:24   good it may or may not be but at least [TS]

02:01:26   like sort of theoretically it's easy to [TS]

02:01:29   imagine that Google's assistant is going [TS]

02:01:31   to be more capable than than the [TS]

02:01:34   competition because that that's what [TS]

02:01:35   they do [TS]

02:01:36   alright i believe the problem the [TS]

02:01:38   problem for google is assist this world [TS]

02:01:42   is a great fit for them technologically [TS]

02:01:45   and it's a horrible fit for them from a [TS]

02:01:48   business model perspective because the [TS]

02:01:50   way google makes money is they basically [TS]

02:01:52   make their advertisers compete against [TS]

02:01:56   each other and they compete to get in [TS]

02:01:58   front of customers and then the customer [TS]

02:02:00   chooses the winner based click on an ad [TS]

02:02:02   they select and add and click on it and [TS]

02:02:04   that's the one that gets that that that [TS]

02:02:05   that that that pays money but it's a [TS]

02:02:08   great insight and so let me let me let [TS]

02:02:09   me see if you agree with this that the [TS]

02:02:11   the main product that [TS]

02:02:13   google for since its inception has [TS]

02:02:15   served is a list of search results right [TS]

02:02:20   you know and this is goes across all [TS]

02:02:22   their products you know it mean in [TS]

02:02:23   whatever they make from gmail I don't [TS]

02:02:25   think it it's a drop in the bucket I [TS]

02:02:26   think compared to search results and the [TS]

02:02:28   product is you type in a little thing in [TS]

02:02:30   this little box and hit return and [TS]

02:02:32   Google about you know one-tenth [TS]

02:02:35   two-tenths of a second later gives you a [TS]

02:02:37   list of results and originally it was [TS]

02:02:39   all just search results and their [TS]

02:02:42   competitors were doing things like [TS]

02:02:44   putting punch the monkey adds a top the [TS]

02:02:46   page all this obnoxious stuff they were [TS]

02:02:49   making no money on it and google said [TS]

02:02:51   we're never going to show these banner [TS]

02:02:52   ads and they never did they never went [TS]

02:02:54   back on that and what they did is they [TS]

02:02:56   found a way to say what we're going to [TS]

02:02:57   do is it's actually home i would say [TS]

02:03:01   it's almost like in the form of early [TS]

02:03:02   form of native advertising and I know [TS]

02:03:04   you've talked about absolutely right [TS]

02:03:05   yeah it's we're just going to use one of [TS]

02:03:07   the slots in the list we're just going [TS]

02:03:09   to make slot 1 a paid result and we're [TS]

02:03:12   going to try to make sure that even [TS]

02:03:14   though it's a paid result that it's [TS]

02:03:15   still somewhat relevant to the query [TS]

02:03:17   because that'll work for everybody [TS]

02:03:20   it'll work for you the person looking [TS]

02:03:21   for a thing that will work for this the [TS]

02:03:23   advertiser because they're only going to [TS]

02:03:26   have that in front of people who are [TS]

02:03:28   actually sort of looking for this and it [TS]

02:03:33   is written here trade notes that and [TS]

02:03:36   it'll work for us because this might [TS]

02:03:38   actually be sustainable its side when I [TS]

02:03:41   don't know it's in the rather just [TS]

02:03:42   crashed at me I said she was screaming [TS]

02:03:44   and you totally went off the rails [TS]

02:03:47   I apologize for that says no to stop [TS]

02:03:49   responding [TS]

02:03:50   an error has prevented this application [TS]

02:03:52   working properly that's because it's not [TS]

02:03:54   an application it's a web page anyway [TS]

02:03:56   it's a little list but there is no you [TS]

02:04:01   know and in the same way you know and [TS]

02:04:02   you've often been very complimentary [TS]

02:04:03   about the daring fireball sponsorship [TS]

02:04:06   model that you know it is of early form [TS]

02:04:08   of native advertising where I serve up a [TS]

02:04:10   bunch of short articles every week and i [TS]

02:04:14   sell one of them to a sponsor who I hope [TS]

02:04:18   is you know of interest to my audience [TS]

02:04:22   and it just slips right in to the RSS [TS]

02:04:24   feed just like all the other ones and [TS]

02:04:26   it's clearly labeled as sponsored but [TS]

02:04:29   it's not like some extra mius thing like [TS]

02:04:32   an image on top of the thing right there [TS]

02:04:37   is no internet there's no room for that [TS]

02:04:38   in an interaction with a voice assistant [TS]

02:04:40   you know I mean like if I say to my [TS]

02:04:43   voice assistant hey dingus the book me [TS]

02:04:46   on a flight to san francisco on $MONTH [TS]

02:04:47   october 26th the dingus can't come back [TS]

02:04:52   to me and say hey would you know would [TS]

02:04:55   you like to you know yet no one wants to [TS]

02:04:58   make selections like in this is that [TS]

02:05:00   this is exactly at the like an assistant [TS]

02:05:02   works if it gives you answers [TS]

02:05:05   whereas Google's business model is [TS]

02:05:06   predicated on giving you options and the [TS]

02:05:10   and so in a world where you give answers [TS]

02:05:12   not options their business model falls [TS]

02:05:14   apart and people like all well people [TS]

02:05:15   could there could be sponsored results [TS]

02:05:17   and one most italian sounds terrible but [TS]

02:05:21   to yes there are some scenarios where [TS]

02:05:23   like Google could maybe charge an [TS]

02:05:25   affiliate fee or something right like if [TS]

02:05:26   you use opentable to book is a book me a [TS]

02:05:29   table at X restaurant and Google use [TS]

02:05:31   opentable and opentable pay school and [TS]

02:05:33   affiliate fee that that light right [TS]

02:05:35   investors easy but just you know [TS]

02:05:38   listening to it sounds ridiculous one [TS]

02:05:40   there's very few areas that will work [TS]

02:05:42   but to affiliate fees are not very high [TS]

02:05:46   relative to what companies pay for [TS]

02:05:48   google ads because your flight example [TS]

02:05:50   like what's the goal of kayak and and [