The Talk Show

160: ‘Fresh Out of Prison’, With Special Guest Nilay Patel


00:00:00   nilay patel welcome to the talk show it's been no I should have had you on [TS]

00:00:04   before I don't even understand how you haven't been on before [TS]

00:00:08   yeah it's been a long time coming man I should have had you would actually have [TS]

00:00:10   your chest this is this is long overdue [TS]

00:00:12   I'm gonna be on the show and then you are you're like all over the box family [TS]

00:00:15   you were on . off to show you tell me [TS]

00:00:18   yeah and then a couple weeks we'll have you on the verge cast and then a couple [TS]

00:00:21   weeks we'll have you told host control-alt-delete with wall that was [TS]

00:00:24   actually a great that would actually be pretty fun to see the show among with [TS]

00:00:29   Kafka is out i haven't seen it and heard it there's a fun i did was not aware [TS]

00:00:34   that there would be photographs you haven't my wife screams downstairs like [TS]

00:00:41   a half an hour ago [TS]

00:00:42   what is this photo of you it is very unflattering photo of me looking somehow [TS]

00:00:45   i have a I I'm not self-conscious I don't care she's like oh my god of if I [TS]

00:00:50   there was a terrible photo of me on the internet I would kill myself and I was [TS]

00:00:53   like well so what [TS]

00:00:54   yeah I was not aware that there would be photos and if i was rude the Kafka's [TS]

00:01:00   show we recorded together at a little he's got a cool little studio in like a [TS]

00:01:05   comedy club in New York but it was like ninety-eight percent humidity in New [TS]

00:01:09   York and I just taken the subway up so i didn't have my shirt . so i came out of [TS]

00:01:16   like a sweatbox oh my god [TS]

00:01:18   yeah i mean it was a good show though it's a really good job [TS]

00:01:22   the recode style is to is to put people in uncomfortable situations then get the [TS]

00:01:26   truth out of them so well the his studio wasn't uncomfortable it's just that I [TS]

00:01:31   was not aware that i would did not prepare myself for a photo session but [TS]

00:01:36   anyway there are no photos on the time you get to get the red Rico chairs that [TS]

00:01:39   only in character only on camera show this was it's a very utilitarian little [TS]

00:01:43   studio it's actually you know our box media cuadra code last year it's been so [TS]

00:01:50   much fun having that team around the verge like we don't do a lot together [TS]

00:01:54   but our sights on our staffs have always been very simpatico and it has been [TS]

00:01:58   their incredible it's just super fun to watch them work well we can do my eyes [TS]

00:02:03   would roll right into it then because i was going to talk about the matter stuff [TS]

00:02:06   about the business in my opinion and I'm not just saying this because you're the [TS]

00:02:09   guest on my show I honestly think both recode [TS]

00:02:13   the verge have gotten better in the last year and it's very noticeable to me and [TS]

00:02:17   and with the verge the little more subtle but with recode to me it's like [TS]

00:02:21   it very noticeable that like recode can now focus on what Rico does best and let [TS]

00:02:28   other stuff you know let you guys let the verge do other things [TS]

00:02:33   yeah i mean it i mean i always think because it's been great and it has been [TS]

00:02:37   really fun for us to get Walt and Lauren on our team is product viewers and bring [TS]

00:02:43   all of that experience I can't I i can't speak highly enough about working with [TS]

00:02:48   wall it is maybe the best thing that has happened to me in my career to have him [TS]

00:02:52   Kevin he's incredible idea its I think this is true even offer a long time and [TS]

00:02:58   we should say John and I have known each other like talked for quite awhile i [TS]

00:03:02   think people think of us is like Missy rifles but we're not like we just have [TS]

00:03:06   different perspectives and it's fun to fight on Twitter so we do that I'm but [TS]

00:03:10   while i think most people know Walt is the guy who writes the column and very [TS]

00:03:14   few people know Walt is the actually incredible talent and personality that [TS]

00:03:19   he had it's a huge personality I and he's got a lot of ideas about how to do [TS]

00:03:23   that mean he he started his column he was the first one ever to start a [TS]

00:03:27   personal technology column and he and Karis started that conference business [TS]

00:03:32   when no one else is doing that now everybody does it and they started all [TS]

00:03:35   things D is a start-up within the journal and then once we could like [TS]

00:03:38   that's a long history of doing entrepreneur things in the media and its [TS]

00:03:42   I'm trying to do that and its difficulties and him started that colony [TS]

00:03:46   the fact it's not just that he started the columns that he started it in the [TS]

00:03:49   wall street journal [TS]

00:03:50   yeah and and with that particular audience and I they're just had to be so [TS]

00:03:54   much like you've got to be kidding me learn you know why new world we run this [TS]

00:03:57   personal technology column in The Wall Street Journal [TS]

00:04:00   yeah and it ended up being you know that's a huge hit [TS]

00:04:04   I mean it's it defines the form i think i think all of us [TS]

00:04:08   I'm you me everybody we're all just riffing on what started back i mean [TS]

00:04:12   literally the first line that he ever in the columns like technology is too hard [TS]

00:04:15   to use [TS]

00:04:16   yeah [TS]

00:04:17   triple it's like we've just been building on that ever since in one way [TS]

00:04:21   or another right gets hard we've got X understand and explain and you know [TS]

00:04:24   writing from the customers the real persons perspective not the enthusiasts [TS]

00:04:30   perspective right and there anything there in that is was a big focus and you [TS]

00:04:35   know you're talking about rico and the virgin together and sort of growing its [TS]

00:04:39   there's like three perspectives in there that I think are really interesting one [TS]

00:04:44   you know I think the big difference between the Virgin recode and it's a [TS]

00:04:47   really big difference and we talked about it a lot is recode is is [TS]

00:04:52   interested in the effects on culture and entertainment all that stuff but they [TS]

00:04:56   are really bad technology in business right they they are deep into executive [TS]

00:05:02   movements their deep into yahoo board struggles that deep into i think peter [TS]

00:05:06   kafka is the best media reporter in the industry [TS]

00:05:09   I'm not even sure to compare them to I i would daddy wouldn't let me get to a few [TS]

00:05:12   sivanna show but no but seriously I is incredible [TS]

00:05:16   I don't know who want to even say would you know who would even argue if i was [TS]

00:05:21   going to take a devil at devil's advocate advocate standpoint as who else [TS]

00:05:24   maybe bit the best media reporter I don't even know who else I would throw [TS]

00:05:28   up there [TS]

00:05:29   really it's it's it's it's a it's a one-man show and obviously cares [TS]

00:05:33   exemplary and a staff of I think mark bergen for example is when the best [TS]

00:05:36   google reporters industry and iconic goes I'm so it's interesting you know we [TS]

00:05:42   could came on in the verge we kind of realized I kind of realize what we don't [TS]

00:05:47   there's no point try to compete with some of the best business coverage in [TS]

00:05:50   history like we're kind of not going to do that we're going to be what we r [TS]

00:05:53   which is a really big mainstream culture brand and our the way that we see the [TS]

00:06:00   culture is through technology we are deep nerds like i'm a huge nerd [TS]

00:06:05   actually I've never told you this story John but right now and it's I think it's [TS]

00:06:10   a good setup for maybe the conversation later but Apple I got my entire start is [TS]

00:06:15   a nerd and as somebody who cares about technology by basically showing up every [TS]

00:06:20   day at the local apple reseller and racine wisconsin when I was middle [TS]

00:06:23   school until they gave me a job and my job was to like a reformat people's [TS]

00:06:27   computers with floppies in the basement [TS]

00:06:29   and in like you know like this thing about ports that you know we United are [TS]

00:06:34   you mad [TS]

00:06:35   I just knew when the port's came went because I like had basically fixed every [TS]

00:06:40   model of Macintosh four years in like I think that's us like we're diverges [TS]

00:06:45   really nerdy but carefully deeply about the culture and I want to virtually a [TS]

00:06:50   big brand like a really big everybody should be able to read it and understand [TS]

00:06:55   it and connect to it in some way and I think recode is really focused on the [TS]

00:06:59   business of how this all works and I you know I went to a conference and I was [TS]

00:07:02   sitting with wall action afterwards I was like what is amazing to me is the [TS]

00:07:06   amount of power here and how interested Rico isn't interrogating the power I [TS]

00:07:11   think that's fascinating i love reading record i love i think that great [TS]

00:07:14   reporters in a great work there i'm less sort of interested in the mechanics of [TS]

00:07:18   power i'm more interested in when you buy the stuff [TS]

00:07:21   how does it affect you when we make things and these tools have radically [TS]

00:07:26   expanded the ability of people to make things the number of people who make [TS]

00:07:31   things how does that affect how we make it how does it affect creativity how [TS]

00:07:34   does it affect how we distribute it [TS]

00:07:36   how do we talked and I think that stuff is that's the verge stuff and so there [TS]

00:07:40   is no I think focus makes things better and I i wouldn't say it's been a really [TS]

00:07:45   it's not like explicit like I commanded we're going to go this way that never [TS]

00:07:49   happened but i think the two teams like each other and work well together and [TS]

00:07:53   we've allowed each other to grow and focus [TS]

00:07:55   yeah that's and it definitely in my opinion as an outsider definitely shows [TS]

00:07:58   and I if anything and it's one way that I can sort of measure it because on a [TS]

00:08:04   daily basis i just linked to what I think is worth the attention or or that [TS]

00:08:11   I have something to comment on if you know it's either either something that I [TS]

00:08:14   think wow this is big enough that everybody comes my said I want to see it [TS]

00:08:17   or maybe that's not quite it maybe it's a little bit more i just want to throw [TS]

00:08:21   in my two cents on this right and that's really the only things i think about on [TS]

00:08:25   a daily basis but in the aggregate I can look back and stand just search and see [TS]

00:08:29   who I link to and my links to the verge and recode are both up over the last [TS]

00:08:34   year [TS]

00:08:34   let's switch it doesn't like great stats like you know it's like that's way [TS]

00:08:37   better than comscore whatever garbage and like throw that out and start paying [TS]

00:08:40   you for your links stats [TS]

00:08:42   great and it's interesting to me you know that our racket is in such flux and [TS]

00:08:49   it's probably i don't know that it's never going to settle down again I think [TS]

00:08:53   that's sort of the way of the with media being on the internet instead of being [TS]

00:08:59   in print [TS]

00:09:01   I i just think its inherent that there will be more people will move around two [TS]

00:09:04   jobs more often and publications will you know merchant and change and fold [TS]

00:09:10   more frequently than they did in the old days but it's interesting to me to that [TS]

00:09:15   an awful lot of the people who i like best have coalesced onto the recoding [TS]

00:09:19   verge staff like the bigger the best example I can think of is is my palate [TS]

00:09:23   dan dan frommer has been on this show many times now's editor it at ricoh it's [TS]

00:09:28   just interesting to me that of all the different places at that somebody like [TS]

00:09:31   dan could wind up it's you know no surprise to me that these waves at recog [TS]

00:09:35   now [TS]

00:09:36   yeah i think that the company's called boxer reason right the it i like working [TS]

00:09:40   here i'm obviously I've worked here for a long walk along and making air quotes [TS]

00:09:45   a long time is five years and forever [TS]

00:09:48   it's literally the whole history the company wasn't called box for sure that [TS]

00:09:51   but it's a is called foster reason and i think from the top down there is just [TS]

00:09:57   enormous emphasis placed on the value of creativity in the value of journalism [TS]

00:10:01   and it's not it's it's to me it i think the three big companies that are worth [TS]

00:10:07   watching in this space it's like 3.5 right there's BuzzFeed obviously that [TS]

00:10:11   their monster I think vice is super interesting and you know in terms of [TS]

00:10:15   tone and what they capture about the zeitgeist and us i hope and i think you [TS]

00:10:21   know the New York Times Washington Post their kind of . 5 because they are these [TS]

00:10:24   traditional companies that are doing a really good job of turning into [TS]

00:10:27   something else [TS]

00:10:28   yeah and the three new media companies i i i can tell you confident it's a [TS]

00:10:32   BuzzFeed advice and then I hope Fox is always in a conversation and they just [TS]

00:10:36   represent I think three different tax at it and I think the one that you're [TS]

00:10:42   noticing that us is we let people run really fast but we kind of demand that [TS]

00:10:47   everybody not be beholden to what worked yesterday and I so if you're a creative [TS]

00:10:52   person I think that's a good pitch [TS]

00:10:54   I completely agree so keep it up after work and I think I gotta say it's funny [TS]

00:11:00   because you mention this time flux daring fireball the last site that I go [TS]

00:11:05   to every day on the desktop [TS]

00:11:08   I can't think of another website that i type in your desktop browser everyday is [TS]

00:11:13   a matter of course but not even like the verge I do it because I work here [TS]

00:11:16   Puckett I you know our other I i generally consumed the verge about as [TS]

00:11:22   much in my feeds as i do like by typing the website in daring fireball for [TS]

00:11:29   better or worse like rarely shows up in my feeds but i religiously have it on [TS]

00:11:33   the desktop so you've got it you're good i mean are your stats showing the people [TS]

00:11:37   are coming at you from social the way everybody else is [TS]

00:11:39   I know right I the vast majority of my head to go right to the homepage still [TS]

00:11:49   and so I actually worried about that because I worry that having a I mean you [TS]

00:11:54   can tell by looking at the site i mean the design of the site is about you know [TS]

00:11:57   it the whole point of the simple simplicity and the top-down [TS]

00:12:01   chronological order of daring fireball is my assumption is sure there are some [TS]

00:12:07   of some people who are going to check multiple times a day god bless you i [TS]

00:12:10   love you you're you know the best readers i have but there's other people [TS]

00:12:14   who you know like what I have to say but either aren't that obsessive about [TS]

00:12:19   checking the web or they're more disciplined and don't dick around on the [TS]

00:12:23   web or maybe they're just really freaking busy and they don't have time [TS]

00:12:28   and i love the idea that if somebody's really really busy but it's like the end [TS]

00:12:33   of the day and they're getting ready to go home and be with the family or [TS]

00:12:36   whatever and they think well let me just go check daring fireball and see if [TS]

00:12:39   there's anything I should know about [TS]

00:12:41   that's sort of what I hope to be four people and but I worry though that that [TS]

00:12:45   that model because that basic idea of hey go to this site homepage sort of [TS]

00:12:49   going away that it's a problematic for me i don't know i don't know a the verge [TS]

00:12:55   has the biggest desktop homepage it inside a box media bye-bye huge factor [TS]

00:13:01   in it it hasn't [TS]

00:13:03   as far as near as i can tell you are traffic is massively increased over the [TS]

00:13:06   years [TS]

00:13:07   % like video views are Scott their up literally 25 hundred percent [TS]

00:13:11   month-to-month this past but it's like bonkers stupid facebook inflated numbers [TS]

00:13:16   but I below all of that is like this holding steady desktop audience and I do [TS]

00:13:21   think it's I think you and I are in a unique position against sort of the rest [TS]

00:13:26   of the mass media we have a lot of nerds at work hard work have a 24 inch monitor [TS]

00:13:30   sitting next to their other 24 inch monitor and basically four sites so like [TS]

00:13:35   Soviet yeah i think there's that audience is not going away and the other [TS]

00:13:39   thing is that i had i do nothing on facebook [TS]

00:13:42   literally I have no you know i don't i don't use it personally and I don't have [TS]

00:13:46   any daring fireball set up on facebook i have thought about that for a long time [TS]

00:13:50   and it's been I've you know been like thinking maybe I should maybe I [TS]

00:13:55   shouldn't yesterday's news made me think well you could kind of glad that I [TS]

00:13:59   didn't know but so and I'd and I get nothing from facebook i mean like I'm [TS]

00:14:05   looking at my refers right now and like I'd it's not even in the top 20 so [TS]

00:14:09   there's not one thing from facebook but maybe they don't send a refer code i [TS]

00:14:13   don't know maybe I should start making like like daring fireball food videos [TS]

00:14:17   and that should be your face fixed are you just making really nice bourbon [TS]

00:14:21   cocktails like I would watch that would be great [TS]

00:14:24   yeah i yeah that would get old quick books on how to make like no I don't [TS]

00:14:28   know how to make three cocktails so the canopy will be less we'd only knows how [TS]

00:14:31   to make like four kinds of cookie man there's let's just get back to every [TS]

00:14:34   time I yes I like we always play pretty the the twitter links that coming from [TS]

00:14:39   Tico that's a that's pretty big but it's nowhere near as big as the homepage [TS]

00:14:44   homepage yes let me see here about 20 times more popular than my most popular [TS]

00:14:52   individual story yesterday [TS]

00:14:54   yeah i mean in a good metric for us that we use and don't use is our home page [TS]

00:14:59   when we look at our real-time stats generally it's is the most popular page [TS]

00:15:03   on the site if a story beats the homepage were like that's what he's [TS]

00:15:07   doing great you know like so I I don't think it's going away I did I just don't [TS]

00:15:11   think desktop computers at work are going away i have this crazy sort of [TS]

00:15:16   three drinks and I start babbling about this theory [TS]

00:15:20   where the nature of productivity at work has totally changed because of the [TS]

00:15:24   Internet where you know the typical news consumer 25 years ago would read the [TS]

00:15:30   news in the morning go to work [TS]

00:15:32   presumably do work at work come home watch the evening news that go to bed [TS]

00:15:36   and start over and now it's like you wake up in the morning you read news you [TS]

00:15:39   go to work you read even more news everyone's traffic is up and go home and [TS]

00:15:43   you consume like Netflix and like when do people do work has become like an [TS]

00:15:47   open question to me because everyone's just reading news like all day long in [TS]

00:15:51   the internet I don't think that audience i think it might get mediated through [TS]

00:15:55   different platforms I think obviously the bigger audiences honorable but [TS]

00:15:59   fundamentally I think people are going to look at big screens at work a lot and [TS]

00:16:04   often what they're gonna look at on this big screens as news so my level of panic [TS]

00:16:08   about Facebook algorithm changes like basically zero because the Verge's big [TS]

00:16:12   enough and honestly has like a large enough referral base a google search is [TS]

00:16:17   still a massive referral base into the verge like get out i'm not worried about [TS]

00:16:21   a little i'll go change here in there as long as we just any aggregate keep [TS]

00:16:25   growing [TS]

00:16:26   yeah i think you know it's I think the best thing and the best long-term [TS]

00:16:33   strategy is just common sense is to build a brand where people you know it [TS]

00:16:41   remember the source whether it's a byline which is a little bit more like [TS]

00:16:46   me as a one-man show just all I know the verge I definitely want to read the [TS]

00:16:49   Virgin's take on the new this new iPad it's not just that I want to read on [TS]

00:16:57   ipad review it [TS]

00:16:58   oh I want definitely see the Virgin's version if you don't have that that's [TS]

00:17:01   where you're you're justyou're I think you're screwed eventually because [TS]

00:17:04   something is going to change if you're just chasing the social traffic for the [TS]

00:17:10   sake of social traffic without any real brand you know if people don't know what [TS]

00:17:14   side they're on [TS]

00:17:15   then you're screwed say we actually made you know we've always had this big video [TS]

00:17:19   program but we made a huge investment in photography and [TS]

00:17:23   and i'm going to say design even though i think people always had a big [TS]

00:17:25   investment design but photography and story design and have become a bigger [TS]

00:17:30   investment for us this year because we realized what are the places inside of a [TS]

00:17:34   story that's traveling and getting disaggregated everywhere that you can [TS]

00:17:37   touch it's like yep bylines style obviously content our video you know [TS]

00:17:43   we've got to level up we've been pretty good at it but when we get better but [TS]

00:17:47   then photos travel best of all actually you can look at it like oh that's [TS]

00:17:51   average photo so we made a big investment there this year it's been [TS]

00:17:53   going pretty well i am i'm fairly pleased with sort of the the notch up [TS]

00:17:58   we've taken and it's funny because it's all the stuff is like a huge computer [TS]

00:18:02   that i love it's like now we've got really expensive cameras and wacom [TS]

00:18:06   tablets and huge monitors with hoods and I'm like yes this is exactly what I [TS]

00:18:10   thought working in the media with people and it's just a good time let me take a [TS]

00:18:16   break and thank for sponsor the show great sponsor this is the second time i [TS]

00:18:20   sponsored i love this company its 0 de ro now despite its importance i would [TS]

00:18:26   just daresay ubiquitous this Wi-Fi is broken [TS]

00:18:30   imagine if electricity in your house didn't reach certain parts like if there [TS]

00:18:34   was a corner of your bedroom or you just couldn't get electricity or it was just [TS]

00:18:38   spotty and other sometimes it works sometimes it didn't would be ridiculous [TS]

00:18:41   nobody would put up with that but that's the status quo for Wi-Fi with dead zones [TS]

00:18:46   and buffering and rooms they get a good signal and rooms that don't write in [TS]

00:18:50   your same house [TS]

00:18:51   ero was designed to change all of this the company manufactures a single device [TS]

00:18:56   it's a small elegant box about the size of an apple TV sort of looks like an [TS]

00:19:00   apple product you know round wrecks are a little want to call it a skwerkel [TS]

00:19:05   super simple app you put the app on your phone and you just set it up through [TS]

00:19:13   there and so you don't have to go through one of those janky web [TS]

00:19:15   interfaces where you're typing anything you just get on the app and you set it [TS]

00:19:19   up and you put a couple of these zeros throughout your home [TS]

00:19:23   there isn't one of them has to be the one that is like the the the like main [TS]

00:19:27   one where you plug your cable and but it's the same device so it doesn't have [TS]

00:19:31   you don't have to keep track of which one's the special first one just put [TS]

00:19:34   like I think the main one that [TS]

00:19:35   did all sorts of packs depends on the size of your house you go to their [TS]

00:19:38   website at zero dot com and they will tell you how many to buy but i think the [TS]

00:19:46   default is a 3-pack you get three or four these things you put a couple of [TS]

00:19:50   them throughout your house and they just do all the magic behind the scenes to [TS]

00:19:56   just give a strong signal you don't have to do anything you don't have to act [TS]

00:20:00   like a network admin so super easy just go to erode com is Wi-Fi that works and [TS]

00:20:08   use the code talk show and you will get free overnight shipping [TS]

00:20:15   I've got this set up in my house could not be easier I and my Wi-Fi is better [TS]

00:20:19   than ever and i get a better signal in my bedroom which never used to get a [TS]

00:20:23   good signal and i get a signal and now I do get a signal in my garage which I [TS]

00:20:27   never did before which was always a huge pain in the ass when you get the car and [TS]

00:20:32   try to as sink something or get something the phone my phone would [TS]

00:20:37   always think that it was connected to the Wi-Fi but couldn't really get a [TS]

00:20:39   signal huge painting is no more [TS]

00:20:42   thanks 2020 calm and remember that code talk show and you'll get free overnight [TS]

00:20:46   shipping first 40 from walt mossberg review [TS]

00:20:51   yeah i think i'm reading a narrow ad on the verge chance later today it's really [TS]

00:20:54   your moment I lives company I got it I got it I got I'd get it all set up in my [TS]

00:20:59   parents their house is too big for like normal like a big Wisconsin rambling [TS]

00:21:03   house and I got it i'm going there in August a minute to set it up and get it [TS]

00:21:08   right [TS]

00:21:08   my parents had this thing happens to them where AT&T call them is like a [TS]

00:21:13   you've got u verse and your son pays for your phones on any of the 80 count when [TS]

00:21:18   you combine them will give you a free smart home my dad was like yeah that [TS]

00:21:22   sounds great and now it's just like garbage smart-home stuff like I'm so [TS]

00:21:27   terrified like it's gonna get hacked [TS]

00:21:30   anytime I parents have to use more software i get like very afraid and [TS]

00:21:34   evidence supports the work i got interested i just figured out i actually [TS]

00:21:38   took a guess it was the wrong guess [TS]

00:21:40   yeah code is not not actually talk show because the code is actually the talk [TS]

00:21:44   show [TS]

00:21:44   yeah with the dasha which is even better I hate to say it I might I don't want to [TS]

00:21:49   say bad things [TS]

00:21:49   about sponsors who just use the code talk show but I paid for the and I like [TS]

00:21:53   it when i use it and in fact the code 40 is the talk show and that's the code you [TS]

00:21:58   need for free overnight shipping hopefully by I don't want to edit this [TS]

00:22:01   don't add it Caleb just let this role [TS]

00:22:04   this will make it stick in people's heads people will remember when they go [TS]

00:22:06   to erode the talk show because i had had to correct it [TS]

00:22:09   I make their about podcast addresses people read them be four people listen [TS]

00:22:13   to them because I blow them so repeatedly and once plus this whole [TS]

00:22:17   industry gets professionalize that it's all over [TS]

00:22:20   yeah we're totally suck its right now I do think that people say that i often [TS]

00:22:23   say like I I'll talk to people at the show might what about the ads you skip [TS]

00:22:27   the ads because I I've often said that I beers my goal with the address my goal [TS]

00:22:31   with the address is to do whatever I can to make you not want to skip even if its [TS]

00:22:35   sponsor you've heard before and I think you're right that half of the fun is [TS]

00:22:40   this if you how I screw it up like I I blow them routinely and you know that [TS]

00:22:46   the bigger advertisers are starting to poke around the edges of the industry [TS]

00:22:50   and like as the card companies and banks and whoever the hell shows up and [TS]

00:22:56   they're like we need to be more professional like people just gonna [TS]

00:23:00   start skipping the ads it's graduate this is why you don't want metrics and [TS]

00:23:03   podcast you don't want to know [TS]

00:23:05   I totally agree but I was just going to be a cock about that I don't think you [TS]

00:23:09   want metrics I know that people think they want them but I don't think they [TS]

00:23:12   really want [TS]

00:23:13   I I I'm sure Peter had smarter stuff to me to say about my my read on it is that [TS]

00:23:19   if they're big money is ever going to enter enter product ask the push for [TS]

00:23:23   metrics is gonna it's gonna happen because everything i know about our [TS]

00:23:26   advertising and I know very little about our advertising but suggests that the [TS]

00:23:30   big money is very interested in making sure it gets returned to this [TS]

00:23:33   yeah but i feel like i honestly believe that the the fact that you can measure [TS]

00:23:40   more accurately and they do on most web at is actually detrimental to everybody [TS]

00:23:45   people think that they want the stats and they think that they do but all it [TS]

00:23:49   leads is too [TS]

00:23:52   it's I could be careful what you measure type of situation because then you start [TS]

00:23:56   optimizing to what you're measuring it which isn't really the thing you want to [TS]

00:24:01   like the most important thing that we do is we are the most important resource [TS]

00:24:06   the only two resources that are truly scarce in and are in this racket is [TS]

00:24:10   attention and money dollars and everybody's of course everybody keeps [TS]

00:24:17   track of the dollars nobody gets fooled and doesn't keep track of dollars on any [TS]

00:24:22   and you know the advertisers know what they're spending they know what they [TS]

00:24:24   should be spending in and the people like us who run you know [TS]

00:24:28   podcasts and websites know how much we're making but I feel like attention [TS]

00:24:34   measuring attention is not it you can't do it through JavaScript and and hits [TS]

00:24:38   and web server logs it's not that that's not actually accurate [TS]

00:24:42   yeah well that there's like it depends on what you slice i think and again i'm [TS]

00:24:49   sure we're just recapitulating conversation had somebody who is much [TS]

00:24:52   more about this man but and there's anything you can I don't think boxes and [TS]

00:24:58   banners the future of advertising and I don't think you can measure it like i [TS]

00:25:02   bought this many ads and I'm expecting this many more sales that will kill you [TS]

00:25:07   I think I think people now know what the hell 0 is because they produce a it [TS]

00:25:12   yeah that's really measurable in like a pretty specific way I'm but you gotta [TS]

00:25:17   know like if you buy a hat on my cast and listen to podcast like you kinda [TS]

00:25:23   didn't get that out of it i do agree though that it's you know so ero will [TS]

00:25:27   know how well this does because people will use that code the talk show and [TS]

00:25:30   they will figure out at wow look at your hopefully wow look at how many people [TS]

00:25:35   but the kit from that code because they can track it right to the code so that [TS]

00:25:39   they do get that right and I guess that the problem is like with the big money [TS]

00:25:44   is that when coke gets into podcast ads they're not going to have a code where [TS]

00:25:49   she you know like oh when you go to the counter at your local bodega and get it [TS]

00:25:55   by a coke give them the code the talk shows [TS]

00:25:58   that's so they know that's why you're buying a coat it doesn't work for them [TS]

00:26:01   right and on the other hand people you know people want coke to get into [TS]

00:26:05   podcast [TS]

00:26:06   advertising coca-cola company spends an awful lot of money on ADD and it would [TS]

00:26:10   be nice to some of it when the pocket so I do understand that there's a dilemma [TS]

00:26:14   there where the sponsors who are into podcasting right now are these direct [TS]

00:26:18   sale companies that the codes work great [TS]

00:26:22   they really do I mean they they know exactly how well they're doing [TS]

00:26:27   yeah but they but yeah I don't work for bigger brands though right and you know [TS]

00:26:32   the for a bigger media company [TS]

00:26:35   what's everybody make a podcast is maybe a worse use of time then write x more [TS]

00:26:41   articles right and that it's hard it's hard for me because I don't I can't make [TS]

00:26:46   decisions about my budget because I don't know anything about the revenue so [TS]

00:26:51   it's it's tough it's I think it's really interesting that it's I think there's [TS]

00:26:54   like five or six inflection points happening in technology right now that [TS]

00:26:59   basically make it seem like the industry is chaos which means it's the best time [TS]

00:27:04   to write about technology it is the most fun because almost anything can happen [TS]

00:27:09   in any direction and you [TS]

00:27:11   there's just no way to know except to write about it and figure it out and try [TS]

00:27:14   to report on it and talk to more people on but it is absolutely chaos [TS]

00:27:19   yeah but what do you think some of those inflection points are and so I think [TS]

00:27:23   that sort of the settling of the phone industry has led to get out of chaos [TS]

00:27:28   I think there's a lot of money floating around the world a lot of energy a lot [TS]

00:27:32   of people who want to make stuff around technology [TS]

00:27:37   well the other lines i think before you move beyond the phone thing I think that [TS]

00:27:40   it you have to and we knew this we could see where it was going and you can see [TS]

00:27:44   that the the graphs but now that were there [TS]

00:27:48   it's amazing is which is that everybody on the planet anywhere who has even [TS]

00:27:56   vaguely enough money to possibly own a smartphone has one [TS]

00:28:02   yeah and the number and and there's an economic angle i don't know if this is [TS]

00:28:05   where folks don't steal it but the fact that the that the graph of how many [TS]

00:28:10   people live in abject poverty anywhere in the world is it's very likely that we [TS]

00:28:15   might get 20 in the next [TS]

00:28:17   you know 10 or 15 years which is amazing and that means everybody's got one of [TS]

00:28:22   these things [TS]

00:28:22   yeah and the implication would you everybody knew that was going to be [TS]

00:28:26   amazing but it's like it you just couldn't foresee all of the implications [TS]

00:28:31   of it right i think so yet that's it's like it's like one be right it's like we [TS]

00:28:37   heart something happened [TS]

00:28:39   we've we landed on the two platforms and when I was saying a lot of people with [TS]

00:28:43   money and energy they've realized that they can't compete or invest in [TS]

00:28:48   platforms they're not they're not gonna win you can't windows phone is stalking [TS]

00:28:53   fucking happen right right [TS]

00:28:55   blackberry r.i.p right so that money has to go somewhere else those companies [TS]

00:29:00   that their investment if the company's die the people who work that they have [TS]

00:29:05   to go somewhere else and so all of that energy is going in a thousand different [TS]

00:29:10   directions so that just chaos fun chaos but cast in less then I think there's [TS]

00:29:17   the next layer which is ok everybody has these things what are we going to do [TS]

00:29:23   with them [TS]

00:29:25   I think the first wave of that was the app store and you saw just a ton of [TS]

00:29:30   energy and effort and interest in that I think apples made a bunch of moves [TS]

00:29:34   around subscriptions I think that's a response to kind of the great settling [TS]

00:29:38   of the app store right we put a bunch of money [TS]

00:29:41   ping-pong ball around it leveled off we now know that the average number of apps [TS]

00:29:45   people download in a month is 0 and it's a lucky you had searches hard [TS]

00:29:50   discoveries hard getting people to pay more than a dollar is hard to facebook [TS]

00:29:55   instagram twitter a handful games [TS]

00:29:59   those are apps yeah right that's cool and that's fine [TS]

00:30:02   so there's that chaos is still a little there and I think there's a lot of [TS]

00:30:06   interest on subscriptions right now it's like moving to the next big I we there [TS]

00:30:11   was so much discussion with everybody in my circle at WWDC this year about the [TS]

00:30:17   app store just because there was the news that came out the week before and [TS]

00:30:20   you know it's like how does the cell but the one thing that every every [TS]

00:30:23   discussion eventually settled upon every single time all week long was eventually [TS]

00:30:28   sort of a a deep sigh and can you believe would you have ever believed it [TS]

00:30:36   like in 2008 2009 2010 the gold rush years of the app store would you ever [TS]

00:30:41   believe that when the dust settled that the top-earning charge would every [TS]

00:30:46   single one of them with some kind of scam me game where they're trying to get [TS]

00:30:49   people to buy that gold every single hundred yeah just an in-app but it's [TS]

00:30:56   some kind of game that's like design like a slot machine to keep you pumping [TS]

00:30:59   money into it and what it I have all these books [TS]

00:31:02   yeah it's all these hilarious free pop business books and I had like three or [TS]

00:31:06   four then like game fire business game fire app the gamification is a future [TS]

00:31:10   it's like well yeah of course the fucking games one looks like we tried to [TS]

00:31:15   game if I facebook to make it stickier but actually the game is just a game [TS]

00:31:19   I it's I don't think that's surprising I i think that business model emerges [TS]

00:31:25   yeah there's constraint on the app store and how do you perfectly optimized to [TS]

00:31:28   constraint [TS]

00:31:29   well you just say yeah whatever application have thirty percent but [TS]

00:31:32   we're just gonna invent a machine that pulls money oh yeah i'm in it we were [TS]

00:31:36   not necessarily even deliver value behind like the dopamine rush of 20 more [TS]

00:31:40   minutes of this game [TS]

00:31:41   well I think and I think that those companies in particular uh I'm sure they [TS]

00:31:45   would if Apple just said next year across-the-board we're just changing it [TS]

00:31:50   from 7032 8515 for everything [TS]

00:31:53   I'm sure they wouldn't refuse the extra money but i feel like the in-app [TS]

00:31:56   purchase companies that you know the the game companies there that they're just [TS]

00:32:01   fine with the 7030 split because the apples you know literally made this [TS]

00:32:05   machine that lets them just pull money out of people's pockets [TS]

00:32:08   I don't think I I don't even think about two-thirty personally I don't think so [TS]

00:32:12   aight they they're selling a product at zero cost it costs nothing to make and [TS]

00:32:16   nothing to distribute and all right just machine anyway so I look I think that's [TS]

00:32:19   one that's like there was the big leveling of the platform war there's the [TS]

00:32:24   big leveling of the app market that it's like settled and then you just look [TS]

00:32:29   around and it's like [TS]

00:32:31   what is we are gonna happen is AR the thing is how on earth are we going to [TS]

00:32:37   distribute the media at all right like if we can't if people are moving to apps [TS]

00:32:43   not browsers what are the apps are going to use but we can't get a nap in the [TS]

00:32:47   store because that's really hard and no publisher app outside of maybe a handful [TS]

00:32:50   of new york times app some really taken off and even then they haven't not [TS]

00:32:56   there's not as there's not a great feed reader on the phone okay we gotta deal [TS]

00:32:59   with Twitter and Facebook ok [TS]

00:33:01   all they want is video oh my god YouTube is the second biggest search engine in [TS]

00:33:05   the world and no never thinks about it [TS]

00:33:07   those are all those are all agents of chaos right there their forces to create [TS]

00:33:11   just a lot of innovation because people are trying to figure out like can I win [TS]

00:33:16   this game can win all the games i think that's fascinating I think that's [TS]

00:33:21   fundamentally a technology story right it's its people understand the [TS]

00:33:24   constraints of platforms where the platform's iOS sports the app store or [TS]

00:33:28   it's you know whatever happens inside Facebook's algorithm or whatever happens [TS]

00:33:32   inside of Google search [TS]

00:33:34   I that there's a remarkable amount of innovation investment there but there's [TS]

00:33:38   no answers at all like it is a complete moment of change and i think that's just [TS]

00:33:43   really interesting like I think it is often confusing for people who are [TS]

00:33:47   investing in that confusion tends to leak out into the public consciousness [TS]

00:33:52   but I don't think it's all that confusing for people who have phones and [TS]

00:33:56   are constantly being served kind of like everyone's best effort to figure out [TS]

00:34:00   what the future is it's got to be on your list i mean but that in talking [TS]

00:34:06   about inflection points is transportation [TS]

00:34:08   oh yeah and so many different ways it's just astounding it's the the the the [TS]

00:34:14   ride services like uber and lyft which themselves are completely piggyback on [TS]

00:34:21   the ubiquity of smartphones right there is no Hooper without iPhones and [TS]

00:34:27   androids that are always on the internet and can tap a button right it doesn't [TS]

00:34:32   exist there's no way that that happens before 2008 it it it wouldn't work [TS]

00:34:37   how-how'd it [TS]

00:34:38   how did you call the central dispatcher it's funny not eating with their work [TS]

00:34:43   our services before they just weren't [TS]

00:34:45   they provide you with a lot of information right and you didn't use [TS]

00:34:49   them as frequently and or at least normal people didn't use them as [TS]

00:34:53   frequently as it was the most decadent thing in the world right and what's [TS]

00:34:56   funny is like you were has an Alexis skill in I i calling over and couple [TS]

00:35:01   times a week but just like yelling at the echo and I'm like what am I am like [TS]

00:35:05   back to square one in Brooklyn not gonna just called a car service just now it's [TS]

00:35:09   a robot and it's literally the same interaction right calls i talked to [TS]

00:35:14   something one of the funniest times you and I ever got together was we we hung [TS]

00:35:19   out after we got our Apple watch review units [TS]

00:35:23   yeah there were briefings in New York and you [TS]

00:35:26   it's like we kind of bumped into each other i forget if i went first you want [TS]

00:35:30   first I think I when I was ahead of you and I just said I'm gonna go across the [TS]

00:35:34   street and get a cup of coffee if you want to meet will meet and it was like [TS]

00:35:37   like we tried to use the watch to help her remember the past [TS]

00:35:41   yeah let me just watch the spinner yeah and then I was like now showing up for [TS]

00:35:46   blocks away like it spun for a minute and like cancelled out three times and [TS]

00:35:53   then got the location wrong by like four blocks [TS]

00:35:56   I mean that first day with the watch was among the most i don't you felt this I [TS]

00:36:01   felt this because it Jonna actually topic we texted quite a bit because [TS]

00:36:05   we're the only people we knew what the Watchers and even joanna stern yep [TS]

00:36:08   and so the computer for all of us are best friends super best friends for help [TS]

00:36:12   extending heartbeats to eat it was like that i kept forgetting our parties from [TS]

00:36:17   like Apple PR people and I was like I know your hearts racing selectivity a [TS]

00:36:21   minute I'm but I just remember that moment I don't this is true for you that [TS]

00:36:28   was to me one of those inflection point moments and it kind of a different way [TS]

00:36:32   where it was [TS]

00:36:33   here's Apple they have been under all this pressure to put out their next [TS]

00:36:37   category of products [TS]

00:36:39   here's this product and I was terrified that i would get it wrong and be the guy [TS]

00:36:45   who called the ipad nonsense or be them / . and call the ipod you know was it [TS]

00:36:51   like no wireless lame [TS]

00:36:53   I'm and I just remember that whole . i was like i think this thing is kind of [TS]

00:36:58   slow and a little bit [TS]

00:36:59   SE and it's just really interesting now with watch 30 if you use a bunch i mean [TS]

00:37:04   i've been playing with here and there like it's they just they just fixed all [TS]

00:37:09   the slop [TS]

00:37:10   yep right and it's like they made it fast like that's the thing that should [TS]

00:37:13   have done from the beginning [TS]

00:37:14   yeah I don't I talked about on my show last week with Marco Arment but i really [TS]

00:37:18   had so I think it's worth repeating [TS]

00:37:19   I really think that they they released it too early [TS]

00:37:23   yeah as a product and I see why and I think it's exactly what you just said is [TS]

00:37:27   that the the pressure from the outside to give us you know show us that you can [TS]

00:37:32   still do something new without steve jobs there was so overwhelming that I [TS]

00:37:36   think it caused them to make like a unforced error [TS]

00:37:41   yeah and who knows maybe it was the right thing to do it's sort of on Apple [TS]

00:37:46   like to release something early you know to you know released early and often is [TS]

00:37:50   the the sort of open source mantra and apple is sort of the note we're going to [TS]

00:37:55   make you wait we're going to make you wait we're going to release later than [TS]

00:37:59   everybody else but it's going to be the best sort of company and that's and I [TS]

00:38:02   think with the watch they went released early and maybe it was the right way to [TS]

00:38:07   go because maybe you know there's ICL awful lot of Apple watches these days i [TS]

00:38:13   was at I get told you i was in new york last week I spent I saw him all over the [TS]

00:38:17   place on the streets of New York it's it's a really popular device so maybe [TS]

00:38:21   they were right to release it when they did but boy I'll tell you the the watch [TS]

00:38:25   is three is it's like oh this is it and yeah i feel like i got it wrong i feel [TS]

00:38:29   like this probably my biggest regret in recent years is that my room initial [TS]

00:38:37   reviews plural because I weren't it died i think i was a little too i was [TS]

00:38:45   confused i was confused by the watch which I think when I reread my Apple my [TS]

00:38:51   early Applewhite reviews from last year i think that the confusion shows it [TS]

00:38:55   wasn't that I praised it too much I don't feel like I missed the fact that [TS]

00:38:59   like apps are too slow and stuff like that but i just i was confused and so [TS]

00:39:04   therefore my review is confused [TS]

00:39:06   yeah i mean the only you know we we did this huge thing like eat I [TS]

00:39:12   everyone about this a few months ago and I time is a time is blurry for me but I [TS]

00:39:18   was like it slow night tonight that's all you have to say [TS]

00:39:20   yeah and it's like it get nails it right let that they've tried to make it faster [TS]

00:39:25   presented this many hardware and get faster and i think that what i noticed [TS]

00:39:31   that WC this year was that there is an intentionality to apple that I think [TS]

00:39:36   I've been missing recently right everything they did at wec felt like [TS]

00:39:41   okay we like shotgun down a million ideas was very unhappily like there's a [TS]

00:39:45   lot of confusion out there but now we're like we're focusing like here's what [TS]

00:39:50   we're doing to Mac here's what we're doing at the TV here is already going to [TS]

00:39:54   watch you like just down the line [TS]

00:39:56   here's a bunch of very intentional decisions about our products i think [TS]

00:39:59   it's going to bode well for them but i do think the other my mom I think you're [TS]

00:40:04   absolutely right about transportation by the way I'm is a huge inflection point [TS]

00:40:07   the other one I was going to mention was sort of that the unbundling of software [TS]

00:40:15   is an idea from the consumer consciousness that instead of getting a [TS]

00:40:20   nap or getting a package of software or you know 50 floppy disk from Microsoft [TS]

00:40:25   Word or whatever used to now software just constantly around you and updating [TS]

00:40:28   in all kinds of ways that is a huge inflection point the idea that you can't [TS]

00:40:33   sell something to someone that you're going to sell this like ongoing [TS]

00:40:37   experience or people just make expectations of things will silently get [TS]

00:40:42   better around them that's going to lead to a lot of chaos as well because you [TS]

00:40:47   can that gives you license to put out bad products and say it's the first [TS]

00:40:51   version will get better i think we see that constantly I'm and it creates this [TS]

00:40:56   enormous consumer perception that you're going to get better stuff for free all [TS]

00:41:00   the time and I think those are how how the world shakes out in there is going [TS]

00:41:06   to be very complicated for people trying to get money [TS]

00:41:08   I think I'm balance it's good for the consumer but you know it's like it's [TS]

00:41:12   ridiculous to me that you have a tivo i think i have a tivo it's ridiculous to [TS]

00:41:16   my tivo doesn't get a software update like everyday right because it's [TS]

00:41:20   constantly connected and that's sort of my experts my xbox is updating every 90 [TS]

00:41:23   seconds [TS]

00:41:24   i'm at i think that's just that's a big moment for Apple to figure out how to be [TS]

00:41:30   a part of that instead of saying okay the platform changed the platform [TS]

00:41:33   changed [TS]

00:41:34   I'm we were at the code conference we're talking some people from google and [TS]

00:41:38   they're like you know we schedule google i/o and it always feels like chaos [TS]

00:41:42   because it doesn't align with any other product cycles and we don't care we just [TS]

00:41:45   let people shop it's like show-and-tell like what's this team working on the [TS]

00:41:48   record about this far it'll be out next year [TS]

00:41:51   like that's how Google thinks about their software I i think apple has sort [TS]

00:41:56   of gotten to that too I feel like one of the things as is as this year's WWDC [TS]

00:42:00   sort of cements and and in my mind is that to me they they have these four [TS]

00:42:08   platforms and they know exactly what they are and you know you know there and [TS]

00:42:13   watch in particular the you know in addition to the fact that they really [TS]

00:42:16   have fixed the while everything is slow like stuff is not slow anymore date [TS]

00:42:22   they've got they themselves have a much better idea of what the hell people [TS]

00:42:26   where Apple watches were like and the increased focus on fitness is a huge [TS]

00:42:30   part of that I mean that wasn't really even mentioned in the original you know [TS]

00:42:33   pitch [TS]

00:42:34   I mean it was there that was sort of a little bit more but it's a little bit [TS]

00:42:38   more like health than fitness and now it's like the default watch face shows [TS]

00:42:43   you that circles the the filling that but they realize that's what people are [TS]

00:42:46   doing so that they're much more the watch does less its there's far less [TS]

00:42:50   going on the watch and its way way more way easier to understand and they know [TS]

00:42:55   what people are doing with it and I feel like with the mac to I feel like I feel [TS]

00:43:02   like the whole making the mac a little bit more like iOS like they're done with [TS]

00:43:06   that like they've they've done the nips and tucks where they thought hey some of [TS]

00:43:10   these ideas from iOS would make sense on the mac but at this point it's like now [TS]

00:43:14   let's just let the MACD the Mac what's up with the max you think rightly like [TS]

00:43:18   so many Mac lines are just kind of their long in the tooth in various ways and I [TS]

00:43:27   you know I'm desperately waiting for new macbook pro just desperately waiting our [TS]

00:43:32   video editors and unicom trash cans the Mac the Mac Pro's they're like this [TS]

00:43:37   thing is ridiculous like [TS]

00:43:38   there but there are video there's some of them have started using the vr gaming [TS]

00:43:42   pcs because their way faster than that pro and obviously because our newer but [TS]

00:43:46   like where's that next great Mac hardware security hold that thought [TS]

00:43:52   let me do a sponsor read and write that you know i love because I love to have a [TS]

00:43:56   teaser like that inhale and we'll talk about it i'm going to thank our good [TS]

00:43:59   friends is a longtime sponsor the show perfect example of a great podcast [TS]

00:44:03   advertiser Harry's everyone knows good things come in threes well guess what [TS]

00:44:07   this is the three-year anniversary of Harry's I think they've been sponsoring [TS]

00:44:12   podcast ever since they started they've got a special deal you can try three of [TS]

00:44:17   their expertly crafted five-blade German razor blade cartridges in other words [TS]

00:44:22   each one has five blades you get three of them and you get a nice classy handle [TS]

00:44:27   and shaving cream and you get the whole kit for ten bucks [TS]

00:44:30   the only saving company that can offer you something like that amazing quality [TS]

00:44:34   low prices modern convenience they own their own factory i always mention this [TS]

00:44:39   because it to me this is just amazing is that they started sourcing the blades [TS]

00:44:43   from Germany and they liked them so much that there's something like [TS]

00:44:46   hundred-year-old blade factory in Germany and they just bought the factory [TS]

00:44:51   so that's what they do and this is how they work this is the amazing thing is [TS]

00:44:54   they make their own blades they package them up in the nicest packaging I've [TS]

00:44:58   ever seen I've said this before 2i will say it again I the only thing i don't [TS]

00:45:02   like about Harry's is that the packaging is so nice that I often i feel bad [TS]

00:45:06   throwing it out like when i use up that you know I empty the last blade out of a [TS]

00:45:11   pack the box is so nice it just the way it closes the way it looks at everything [TS]

00:45:17   about it it feels like I'm throwing away something I'm supposed to keep but I [TS]

00:45:21   mean what you going to do with an empty box of blades so why pay 30 years I got [TS]

00:45:26   to go to a big you know try to get to let you going to pay 30 32 bucks for an [TS]

00:45:30   eight-pack you get for half that price at Harry's for just 15 bucks you get a [TS]

00:45:35   razor shaving cream three blade cartridges but if you use this code talk [TS]

00:45:40   show they don't have the they just have talk show [TS]

00:45:42   Harry's just talk show but you use that code you'll save five bucks so that [TS]

00:45:45   makes the 15-dollar kit which is an amazing deal [TS]

00:45:48   just ten bucks it's almost like getting it free so go to Harry's com har r ys [TS]

00:45:55   dot-com remember the code talk show without the just talk show and you'll [TS]

00:45:59   say five bucks [TS]

00:46:00   check out on your first order [TS]

00:46:04   I'm where were with her the mac whether the Mac I i talked about this last week [TS]

00:46:12   too but my biggest regret on my live show with with Phil Schiller and Craig [TS]

00:46:16   federighi the one question I had on my list and just didn't get to was [TS]

00:46:21   professional people are very concerned because it really looks at the evidence [TS]

00:46:31   you know shows it really looks like Apple is so focused on consumer products [TS]

00:46:35   iphones and ipads primarily that the focus on professional products like the [TS]

00:46:42   mac pro and the macbook pros has dropped and even on the mac the Machine nights [TS]

00:46:48   been updated the most regularly is the macbook one port thing [TS]

00:46:53   yeah that which is not you know not a pro device so you know I wish I would [TS]

00:46:59   have asked didn't get to me every try to use a right now macbook for any period [TS]

00:47:04   of time now I used one for a couple of days this past week now I because I've [TS]

00:47:07   never really had access to another than to just kick the tires and a store or [TS]

00:47:11   something like that yes a dieter bohn the executive urge likes that's his [TS]

00:47:16   computer swears by getting back didn't use publish the photo from the beginning [TS]

00:47:21   note because to use it to do the live blogging from the keynote he had to put [TS]

00:47:25   like a like a dongle on the side that gives you know it it's like it plugs [TS]

00:47:30   into the the one USBC port and then gives him like a couple of USB ports and [TS]

00:47:35   then it and there's like millions of things but in the yeah because there's [TS]

00:47:38   no there's no great USBC hub this is true I very at like 90 of them they get [TS]

00:47:44   really hot like crazy that it's just you know get better [TS]

00:47:48   it'sit's just take a minute right like it's there on the second generation [TS]

00:47:52   computer it's fine [TS]

00:47:53   I i have to do is to go USB CD USB and then use another hub i have a 13-inch [TS]

00:47:59   macbook pro that is [TS]

00:48:01   I think coming up on two years old and it is just absolutely nothing wrong with [TS]

00:48:07   it and so I you know and i tend to use my max for incredibly long periods of [TS]

00:48:13   time I don't because it just it even today and with dropbox and a couple of [TS]

00:48:19   other things that make transitioning to a new mac easier than ever before [TS]

00:48:24   it still isn't easy like just upgrading to a new phone and I've got a bunch of [TS]

00:48:29   little fiddly stuff on my system like custom perl scripts that reformat [TS]

00:48:34   markdown and they require libraries from Sipan Sipan is like that the central or [TS]

00:48:41   you know open-source archive of pearl libraries so every time I get a new mac [TS]

00:48:45   I've got to install a bunch of little fiddly command-line things like that and [TS]

00:48:49   I never remember them all and I somewhere I've got like a note you know [TS]

00:48:52   that says here he's like the 20 steps to get you set up on that so I don't like I [TS]

00:48:56   just don't want to do it and that i am at the point I've been there for a while [TS]

00:49:00   we're with what i do it faster Mac doesn't really make a difference like [TS]

00:49:04   ever since I've gone to solid state drives yeah ever since I've gone there i [TS]

00:49:12   I've never thought anything was slow in my back so I just don't upgrade so I [TS]

00:49:17   feel like it'll be a couple of years before i get a new laptop at least [TS]

00:49:21   another two years I bet unless something some disaster happens to my macbook pro [TS]

00:49:25   I'll and when that happens i expect that I will buy the macbook one port because [TS]

00:49:29   I don't plug anything into mind my macbook so it's interesting because I is [TS]

00:49:34   in a year like you know that the classic Mac advice was always by like as much [TS]

00:49:39   computers you can afford [TS]

00:49:40   yes I just always by the top and one yep I'm but you know my wife had like a [TS]

00:49:46   macbook air and it was just this endless interminable wait for them to put out a [TS]

00:49:51   new computer that was meaningfully better than hers [TS]

00:49:54   yep is you there faster but like and there's a Retina screen around the [TS]

00:49:57   corner so I bought her I was going to buy are the 2 2015 1 port macbook but [TS]

00:50:03   that thing wasn't actually faster than her computer and our computers dog so it [TS]

00:50:07   was just like this move to consumer machines this focus the [TS]

00:50:12   less powerful processors it kinda doesn't matter if you're always buying [TS]

00:50:16   the most expensive fastest one but if you're in that consumers own you end up [TS]

00:50:20   in this black hole sometimes of its you can just buy the same computer with a [TS]

00:50:25   slightly faster chip or you can just wait it out and so there's the big jump [TS]

00:50:29   and but I'm with you on solid state drives I've my imac at home is like 2011 [TS]

00:50:35   and I put a huge SSD in it and like this is great haha but you gotta guess you [TS]

00:50:39   gotta get the one with the retina screen [TS]

00:50:41   yeah that's right that's what I'm waiting right now even at this point you [TS]

00:50:44   might as well wait till they do a new one got away in it then it's like a [TS]

00:50:46   whole big thing in that one my imac in particular that is like now five years [TS]

00:50:51   of random fiddly shit right now if there's like a plex library that if you [TS]

00:50:55   breathe on it everything breaks like it's like crazy and but I my bigger I [TS]

00:51:02   think this thing you're saying my bigger concern is these pro machine yeah [TS]

00:51:05   because if the in NVR is a big inflection point I think something [TS]

00:51:10   something we're i think that the mac pro in the macbook pro probably two [TS]

00:51:15   different discussions there's a visit my what I think it is a mystery to me and i [TS]

00:51:19   think that the reason I think the problem with the mac pro is that I think [TS]

00:51:22   Apple truly just isn't as interested in that market and even though they had [TS]

00:51:28   probably themselves are probably one of the biggest users of them you know I've [TS]

00:51:32   been extended engineers at Apple who use mac pros but as a business it's just not [TS]

00:51:37   meaningful whereas the macbook pro is actually big business it it you know I [TS]

00:51:42   it's probably the most profitable mac that they make [TS]

00:51:45   I i would think just you know in terms of not like on one unit being most [TS]

00:51:49   problems it's a multiply as many as they sell by how much profit they make its [TS]

00:51:54   super popular it may not be as may not sell in the great great numbers as the [TS]

00:51:59   lower-priced macbook airs in the macbook one but because it's so much more [TS]

00:52:03   expensive and lots of people buy them so i can't think that they're disinterested [TS]

00:52:08   so my guess is that there's something going on like where the new ones that [TS]

00:52:12   are coming out that they're just not ready even though they were supposed to [TS]

00:52:15   be because I really thought a couple months ago it seemed like steam was [TS]

00:52:19   really building up that they were probably going to announce them at WWDC [TS]

00:52:21   and then [TS]

00:52:22   it came and went in and they didn't and I can't help but think that that's [TS]

00:52:26   coming soon though the Macanudo on the other hand it's just baffling to me [TS]

00:52:31   900 days it's like 920 days at this point without an update [TS]

00:52:35   yeah it's crazy and they put out with such fanfare right we can innovate where [TS]

00:52:40   was a candidate my ass candidate my ass [TS]

00:52:43   I it's just that there's a lot of like I had this like visual metaphor the whole [TS]

00:52:49   tech industry it's like a like a long balloon and you squeeze it all the money [TS]

00:52:53   goes somewhere else there's a lot of money [TS]

00:52:57   it's to sit through this i don't think about it like i'm a lot of the money [TS]

00:53:02   that was like focused on let's make apps for phones or let's do anything fun [TS]

00:53:05   platformer make actually making you found another disaster business idea i'm [TS]

00:53:10   a lot of that money is going towards using the screens and processors and [TS]

00:53:15   chips and stuff in going to the are in like building the our experiences in its [TS]

00:53:21   it this moment it's just weird and you know obviously Apple entered classically [TS]

00:53:26   enters the market down the line but because the mac pro isn't able to do any [TS]

00:53:34   of that stuff [TS]

00:53:35   it's not even in the conversation there's nothing about the our [TS]

00:53:38   conversation that even tangentially related sample as far as i can tell and [TS]

00:53:41   that's really it just really interesting to me because I think a lot of those [TS]

00:53:45   people prefer to use mac they just don't yeah I'm I my hope is that it's just [TS]

00:53:50   like a a bunch of constraints that all have to be lined up and somewhat some of [TS]

00:53:56   them are are holding back and with the mac pro my hope is that it's that they [TS]

00:54:02   want to put out of retina 5k cinema display they want a new mac pro that can [TS]

00:54:08   drive it right and some maybe the displays not ready yet and therefore [TS]

00:54:14   they don't want to don't want to release the mac pro without the display to drive [TS]

00:54:17   it or maybe its vice versa where they can't release the display [TS]

00:54:21   yeah before the mac pro is ready and maybe the macbook pros it's the same way [TS]

00:54:26   where they want to beat you you can you know doc your macbook pro and had have [TS]

00:54:31   it connect to this beautiful standalone retina cinema display [TS]

00:54:36   that's my hope is that they're just trying to get all of that stuff and [TS]

00:54:38   they're all going to come out at the same time you're i didn't think i would [TS]

00:54:42   say that is the most optimistic thing i've ever heard from you and it's is [TS]

00:54:46   very idea that apple's tied its entire product line she wanting to make a [TS]

00:54:51   standalone display is kind of incredible [TS]

00:54:54   well but it's weird it's like five of those things here now I think when they [TS]

00:54:58   were new when like that the i think i think they used to sell a lot of them I [TS]

00:55:03   think I i used to see a lot and I you know I don't know what did people do it [TS]

00:55:08   over to people just bring you guys give them laptops there's everybody just by [TS]

00:55:14   the right [TS]

00:55:15   no I mean we were no longer startup people people get computers so most [TS]

00:55:19   people get and in air you can request something else for the editors have like [TS]

00:55:23   15 inch pros and an imac and I think it's wild that we get people imax and [TS]

00:55:28   not mac pros and imacs better like I'm actually sitting in the Box studios [TS]

00:55:33   right now in its Rosa video editors with imax right so one thing but a lot of [TS]

00:55:38   people who have a macbook and they take it with them when they sit at their desk [TS]

00:55:42   it would be nice to dock it too despite and we give them we think we give Him [TS]

00:55:45   dell monitors now [TS]

00:55:47   well i think a lot of you know I think Apple has in the past sold a lot of [TS]

00:55:50   those at this point in recent years it doesn't make any sense because they're [TS]

00:55:53   still have the thousand-dollar price point and it was by no means a [TS]

00:55:57   thousand-dollar monitor [TS]

00:55:58   I mean it's just ridiculous if they come out with a really nice retina 5k one [TS]

00:56:03   then and it still has that thousand dollar price . then all of a sudden it's [TS]

00:56:07   super compelling yeah i have seen like happy cog is a web design studio here in [TS]

00:56:14   Philadelphia and I've always had a couple friends there and they when they [TS]

00:56:18   set up a new office couple years ago and I can i stop by what they did is [TS]

00:56:22   everybody who works there got a macbook of whatever you know their choice that [TS]

00:56:27   they could take with them home and you know to client meetings whatever and at [TS]

00:56:31   their desk there everybody had a apple cinema display in front of it when they [TS]

00:56:34   just dock and get power and have a nice big despite so I anybody that's [TS]

00:56:39   interested in our products folks that's basically how we don't work too but I [TS]

00:56:43   just think it's it's crazy that they haven't updated the macro for 900 days [TS]

00:56:47   because the 5k display huge well [TS]

00:56:49   that is it doesn't really justify why there haven't been any interim updates [TS]

00:56:53   in between it's like but at this point [TS]

00:56:56   nobody's looking for like oh well we just put the latest and greatest from [TS]

00:56:59   Intel in there at this point the new map you know whatever comes out of the [TS]

00:57:03   macbook it might have the same hardware my our external look but it's got to be [TS]

00:57:08   a really big upgrade at this point I think well if you think that so that's [TS]

00:57:13   like interesting and kind of leads in both directions like this [TS]

00:57:15   consumer-focused like they're bringing consumer the things you traditionally [TS]

00:57:21   the way it works we get this thought correctly traditionally the way it [TS]

00:57:24   worked was that all the innovation happened in the enterprise and I would [TS]

00:57:27   trickle down to consumer stuff and apple's big revolution was they were [TS]

00:57:32   like what if we cared about people first instead of what your IT guy needs and [TS]

00:57:37   not i think we agree that has been wildly successful in revolutionary many [TS]

00:57:41   ways but it's what's interesting to me is it's really much harder to apply the [TS]

00:57:46   lessons from consumer technology back to what the professionals need in a variety [TS]

00:57:51   of ways and like I don't need the mac pro to be beautiful [TS]

00:57:55   I think you're right the macbook pro is a different story i canti the mac pro to [TS]

00:57:59   look like the quadrant hundred and have like 60 slots you know I can just be a [TS]

00:58:03   computer [TS]

00:58:04   I'm that you know like have processor daughter like there's a there's a world [TS]

00:58:09   in which that thing is still really valuable [TS]

00:58:10   yeah and people who are working on video for just name one field and any other [TS]

00:58:16   developers are another like there are you know there's all sorts of things [TS]

00:58:19   that when you you know and people who are working on swift in particular just [TS]

00:58:22   because the nature of Swift right now is that you when you have to do a new build [TS]

00:58:25   everything has to get built and you're waiting you said anytime you know those [TS]

00:58:30   are people who are still waiting on their computers to do stuff like hate [TS]

00:58:33   the videos done being added now we just have to spit out the final version will [TS]

00:58:37   guess what you're sitting there waiting and you need as much speed as you can [TS]

00:58:41   and those people [TS]

00:58:42   Dave I don't think they really care too much about the beautiful Darth Vader [TS]

00:58:46   helmet its style of the thing like they would just take anything anything that [TS]

00:58:52   just went faster [TS]

00:58:54   yeah give it to me bring back the xserve that's it that's my new petition apple [TS]

00:58:59   and that's funny we know we've done a handful of 360 videos now [TS]

00:59:03   and when we are rendering and interviewed Michelle Obama and we like [TS]

00:59:07   shot in 360 and we are it's actually not that colleges that premier plug-in and [TS]

00:59:13   just like works then you gotta render it and we were I mean we just brought every [TS]

00:59:19   computer in this place every mac that we add to its knees and including are pros [TS]

00:59:24   and we were like yeah that we hit the wall like if you want to participate in [TS]

00:59:29   this next wave of spherical video or 360 video review our video were there so [TS]

00:59:35   many arguments about the terms i think right but if you want to participate in [TS]

00:59:39   that these machines almost none of them are really powerful enough to do it i [TS]

00:59:43   think that's that's when my chaos like that's another inflection point it's [TS]

00:59:46   gonna get a generation of video creators who were brought up on iMovie on their [TS]

00:59:52   plastic macbook pro macbooks they're gonna be like well maybe I'll get a [TS]

00:59:55   gaming pc with an oculus helmet and it's fast enough for me to cut a 360 video [TS]

00:59:55   gaming pc with an oculus helmet and it's fast enough for me to cut a 360 video [TS]

01:00:00   I don't know that's gonna happen but it's it's just another one of those [TS]

01:00:02   moments when the mom there's a new kind of market over there and it's going to [TS]

01:00:08   develop on its own terms and I think again [TS]

01:00:11   ok like the are could fail if you ask the people here who report on VR day in [TS]

01:00:16   day out like this is a mass every day as a best of intentions in the sci-fi [TS]

01:00:20   future is real and it's funded go to the brand activation and ride the roller [TS]

01:00:23   coaster but consumer the are could just flop and or could be the most successful [TS]

01:00:28   never happened I think that there's so much space in there for different [TS]

01:00:32   different ways of things to work to happen that it's going to be really [TS]

01:00:36   confusing for a while but also incredibly fascinating [TS]

01:00:39   yeah so you're waiting on a macbook pro how old how old is the one you have [TS]

01:00:45   right now I 2012-2013 as pretty old so I guess it's coming i mean that one's [TS]

01:00:51   definitely coming to mac mac pro I don't know but the MacBook Pros have got to be [TS]

01:00:55   coming soon [TS]

01:00:57   it's it's you know and again and is my tie into the next segment of the show my [TS]

01:01:01   other theory i think it's wrong i would definitely bet against it but maybe it's [TS]

01:01:05   possible is if the iphone is moving to lightning port headphones [TS]

01:01:10   maybe they add a lightning port to max so that you can use the same headphones [TS]

01:01:16   maybe aids funny i was i was my friend question differently what ports will [TS]

01:01:20   they take away rights like it'd be crazy to start adding portraits right well [TS]

01:01:26   take away the headphone port [TS]

01:01:27   yeah I take what you take away the headphone port you could make I don't [TS]

01:01:30   know if you could do this on pro machine you could take away those standard USB [TS]

01:01:34   ports and put on USB seaports that's absolutely move [TS]

01:01:38   i D is it time to take a thunderbolt because USBC can get it up on a [TS]

01:01:44   thunderbolt loss like yeah or isn't there like a there's like a thunderbolt [TS]

01:01:47   three that it like it's very confusing to me yeah there's a wonderful three of [TS]

01:01:51   the same connector which is the same connectors us bc which sounded canyon us [TS]

01:01:55   I'm telling you it's just fucking chaos everywhere you look it's great it's [TS]

01:02:00   super fun it's like but it's chaos it's the idea that I was and I we are going [TS]

01:02:06   to talk about from ports but it's not like i did this chart of ports and [TS]

01:02:09   looking at the back of all these macs like confirm all these ports [TS]

01:02:12   and it's just hilarious that for the longest time we had motive in print and [TS]

01:02:16   print reports but they were the same port have different labels on them like [TS]

01:02:20   through time it's like what were we thinking why did we do that and now we [TS]

01:02:26   just have these like rows of USB ports you can do anything with an hour [TS]

01:02:30   collapsing then and now [TS]

01:02:32   now the standards are interchangeable with it the ports are different and now [TS]

01:02:34   the reporter me the same with the standards are different i don't think [TS]

01:02:39   they're gonna add a lightning port i don't think so either [TS]

01:02:41   if you'll just feels mess it feels message to me and it also feels like [TS]

01:02:46   there's a very clean line up until now we're lightening is it is a port and you [TS]

01:02:53   know you just combine it with the 30-pin adapter which it replace those two ports [TS]

01:02:58   were for iOS devices and ipods and never on the mac and all the ports on a Mac [TS]

01:03:04   were never on iOS devices and adding lightning to the mac just so you can use [TS]

01:03:09   the same headphones it it it sounds good if you just want to use the same [TS]

01:03:14   headphones but it blurring that line of what devices have a lightning port and [TS]

01:03:18   what do they use it for seems weird and also you're going to get a lot of people [TS]

01:03:21   trying to charge their max right maybe it's just it's the ease it what do you [TS]

01:03:26   use lightning port for charging your phone you're gonna get a lot of people [TS]

01:03:29   we're just gonna get charger that lightning port and I don't work rights [TS]

01:03:33   or it's not like friday i mean well but they're smarter than that but like who [TS]

01:03:38   knows like that that's a bad outcome right yes you've taught everybody to [TS]

01:03:42   charge their phones with this thing for the longest time especially if you tried [TS]

01:03:45   charging your mac with the little phone charger so that's a great finally used [TS]

01:03:51   for facebook live how long will it take to charge my macbook pro on an iphone [TS]

01:03:55   just leave it running for four days right and yeah I i don't think people [TS]

01:04:00   think of writing is anything other than charging i don't think they think of it [TS]

01:04:03   is the docking board audio Porter there's a million things you can do but [TS]

01:04:07   i think it is what charges are found and I get all the arguments about why you [TS]

01:04:13   remove the headphone jack and like fine that they're their arguments there some [TS]

01:04:18   are better than others [TS]

01:04:19   I don't think we need to add this port in start making people think of as a [TS]

01:04:24   headphone jack [TS]

01:04:25   it's basically what you're doing is you're taking out a headphone jack and [TS]

01:04:27   you're adding another headphone jack [TS]

01:04:29   it's just a different thing you haven't really accomplished all that much if you [TS]

01:04:33   add it to the macbook pro yes I don't think that's what we're waiting for you [TS]

01:04:37   there [TS]

01:04:37   I don't know but I'm by I'm desperate spider-man video card in this one is [TS]

01:04:41   like a little on the fritz it's like just old its essence and nocturnes [TS]

01:04:45   travelpod we're sitting at WABC live login screen started flickering and I [TS]

01:04:50   looked at dr indeed indeed cop camera is like taking photos lab was so stressful [TS]

01:04:54   he's got you know 90 wires officemax look at things like nuclear hot as a guy [TS]

01:04:59   tellin my computer is about to die like knocks out but let's hope it sticks her [TS]

01:05:04   so yeah it's time so I would i was using his old actually i have created 2016 14 [TS]

01:05:12   macbook and i was using his old one for a couple of days [TS]

01:05:15   I'm it's like if they just merged all of the ideas for the macbook pro with that [TS]

01:05:21   single port macbook and keep the keyboard full-size keyboard is actually [TS]

01:05:26   a little bit smaller base from least to my hands I'm that is that is everything [TS]

01:05:33   I've ever wanted laptop i think that that's what they're doing I mean that I [TS]

01:05:36   don't I don't [TS]

01:05:38   to my knowledge actual like schematics have not leaked but the rumors are that [TS]

01:05:43   it's switching to a like a macbook air style teardrop design and it totally [TS]

01:05:47   makes sense you know that apple would do that because of their obsession with [TS]

01:05:51   device than this so and and I used to have a macbook air and the one thing I I [TS]

01:05:57   totally miss with this macbook pro that I have now is that while i was using the [TS]

01:06:04   air for a few years I completely became addicted to being able to reach in my [TS]

01:06:08   bag and know which way that laptop was oriented because it was a wedge shape [TS]

01:06:12   and I can't I it's like to me now it's like a fifty percent chance like I just [TS]

01:06:17   come out and if if anything I or I tend to orient it the wrong way more often [TS]

01:06:21   than not because I'm such an old-school mac user that I remember when my first [TS]

01:06:27   powerbook had the apple logo the other way [TS]

01:06:30   oh wow and so I still tend to if I can't do it by feel and I just plop the [TS]

01:06:36   macbook in front of me looking at the apple logo [TS]

01:06:39   from my perspective the right way and then I'm like oh shoot I gotta turn [TS]

01:06:43   around i do it by feel on the hinge right hinges lost but i had to me that's [TS]

01:06:49   one of the great points it's the graded there's a real usability advantage to [TS]

01:06:53   the air / macbook 1-port wedge shape [TS]

01:06:58   yeah I think I just need a 15-inch screen it's a bit like it just as simple [TS]

01:07:02   as that for me [TS]

01:07:03   right like the 12 inch screen 13 train is great people on there obviously [TS]

01:07:07   hugely popular and then every time i used my could get used to this and I go [TS]

01:07:11   back to my 15 inch pro and it just hits home yeah it's it's where I belong and [TS]

01:07:17   I'm just desperately waiting for them to bring back here to bring this this [TS]

01:07:21   screen size to that design i guess my biggest question about it [TS]

01:07:25   I can't help but think that they're coming soon my question is would they [TS]

01:07:28   would they release them at the same event in September where they do this [TS]

01:07:33   the iphone like man it seems like September's so it's a blow operate yeah [TS]

01:07:38   well last year they did it with the pro they put the ipad pro in the same event [TS]

01:07:42   as a the iphone and they introduced they all new Apple TV at the same event so [TS]

01:07:48   it's not like they're unwilling to share the stage at the the iphone events and [TS]

01:07:54   maybe because the everybody seems to think you know that the this new iphone [TS]

01:07:59   isn't really going to look different that it's and therefore it's a little [TS]

01:08:02   bit you know if it doesn't look different there's a little bit less [TS]

01:08:07   excitement [TS]

01:08:08   therefore it needs something to share the event with so many right now if you [TS]

01:08:13   look at where they are that September event is bonkers right it's and new [TS]

01:08:20   iPhones it's macbook pros hopefully it is the watch it is potentially new ipad [TS]

01:08:28   air like it it's stacked I'm well no there will be an ipad air [TS]

01:08:33   why not oh I think that there I i think that i don't think they'll do a new ipad [TS]

01:08:39   air i think that the ipad pros are the only things that'll never get updated [TS]

01:08:46   and eventually the ipad air what will happen is they'll come out with new ipad [TS]

01:08:51   pros [TS]

01:08:52   and i'll just keep these ipad pros that we have today and slot them into the [TS]

01:08:56   price points where the ipad air is now I don't think they're ever gonna release [TS]

01:09:01   another device that has air in the name tonight airs did they don't have a [TS]

01:09:05   device called the ipad right now so is my standard ipad you do you think that's [TS]

01:09:09   just gone [TS]

01:09:10   yeah because i think that the I think they're going to do like what they do [TS]

01:09:14   with the phones [TS]

01:09:14   it's just to populate the lower price points with two and three-year-old [TS]

01:09:18   devices so everything will just be I've had press I yeah that's the only [TS]

01:09:24   question is I don't understand how the marketing works on that if like a year [TS]

01:09:27   from now when there's a new iPad pro how do you have you know i guess you just [TS]

01:09:32   have cheaper ipad pros and they somehow make it clear you know why you'd want to [TS]

01:09:36   get the bigger one for the more expensive one when we actually it's [TS]

01:09:40   actually i could get offering the same question about the macbook pro what at [TS]

01:09:44   this point for a new macbook pro makes it pro other than it has a real [TS]

01:09:48   processor not a quorum [TS]

01:09:51   yeah but it's the performance i guess the ports right i mean it's like Pro [TS]

01:10:00   users are the ones more like you to quote-unquote need the ports [TS]

01:10:04   yeah it's a agency it you know you just all used to make sense there's like four [TS]

01:10:10   boxes in a grid and now it's the the blurriness cake it's chaos rights even [TS]

01:10:16   the ipad line to me is how many skills are there and it's what that what makes [TS]

01:10:22   the one the pro right now is it has the pencil and it has the smarts connector [TS]

01:10:26   that but you could make an argument that every I pension happens i think that's [TS]

01:10:29   argument you're making it will eventually so what makes the pro the pro [TS]

01:10:33   again in it that to me is it's there's a lot there's kind of a lot of flex apples [TS]

01:10:40   naming right now reflects flux and apples naming it's just I'm curious to [TS]

01:10:45   see how well that settles down like how do they start communicating consumers [TS]

01:10:49   like this is the model for people who do work with these and this is the model [TS]

01:10:53   for everybody else and maybe answers that there is no change and I just get [TS]

01:10:57   rid of the word privilege Thomas iPads yeah because there are other reason i [TS]

01:11:00   don't think that they will come out with anything and [TS]

01:11:03   to device called ipad air is just that the the ipad pro at least you know did [TS]

01:11:10   both of them but especially the 9.7 inch one it's not like it's heavier or [TS]

01:11:14   thicker than the ipad yeah exact same thickness and same low weight so there's [TS]

01:11:20   no difference like one of the things that there was more to me more clarity [TS]

01:11:24   in the naming was when they were really selling two types of laptops mac book [TS]

01:11:29   air and macbook pro the air is the one by definition that is thinner and [TS]

01:11:34   lighter and the pro is thicker and heavier because it that offered more [TS]

01:11:39   performance and right they think it signified trade-offs right like that and [TS]

01:11:45   in the middle you had what i think is one of the best mix ever made the black [TS]

01:11:48   plastic macbook yeah and which was like the perfect compromise of all of those [TS]

01:11:53   things and then the AP wanted you just want to prioritize how then it was you [TS]

01:11:58   can pick an air if you want to prioritize the powerful was against its [TS]

01:12:02   size you pick the pro but that those days are over and we think it's appears [TS]

01:12:06   at the same time ms is making backpack so you can put full gaming pcs and so [TS]

01:12:12   you can walk around VR headset so maybe this is aren't quite as open as we think [TS]

01:12:15   but that that's like to me it's at the you started out by saying this apples [TS]

01:12:22   relentless consumer focus has let it down a path where it's fairly clear how [TS]

01:12:28   things will go but it's also I think becoming more clear that that is not [TS]

01:12:33   necessarily the only path whereas I think for the longest time apples [TS]

01:12:38   overwhelmingly good taste and sense of what the consumer market needed made it [TS]

01:12:43   pretty obvious that they were on the only correct path and now you just see [TS]

01:12:48   there's there's a lot of ways to kind of cut it and apple's big advantage as far [TS]

01:12:52   as i can tell is that they own the best processor design group and had they had [TS]

01:12:58   I think that I I think that's fair to say I really do and it's it's you know [TS]

01:13:04   it is a tremendous advantage right except for the fact that and you know [TS]

01:13:08   the maxies until chips right to cornell and for now anyway and they obviously [TS]

01:13:13   have operating systems of people prefer to use and [TS]

01:13:15   in a large margins so but if you wanna personally backside if everybody's using [TS]

01:13:22   intel chips and like throwing a different form factors all over the [TS]

01:13:25   place [TS]

01:13:26   Apple set of trade-offs is not necessarily this moment the rights of [TS]

01:13:29   trade-offs like you just have to want to use mac and you get whatever happens you [TS]

01:13:32   yeah and i personally would rather use macros . almost anything [TS]

01:13:36   well I've nhp thing uh which one the specter yeah I not in person i read [TS]

01:13:42   Joanna's review where diverse she cuts the cheese [TS]

01:13:46   yeah joanna is it a dear friend of mine anything good friend of yours and she [TS]

01:13:52   just wanted super procedures business journalism or denied that the line oh I [TS]

01:13:56   or two nights ago i think and i was sitting there thinking didn't watch the [TS]

01:14:00   cheese video I i was the backstory and hopefully she's going to be on the show [TS]

01:14:05   soon sometime in the next week she was going to be on this week and it just [TS]

01:14:09   didn't work out scheduling wise and she said she literally said to me you should [TS]

01:14:12   rely on I would listen to that and I was like that what that's a great idea i'll [TS]

01:14:15   see you realize that but yes you did just win an award for videos it's an [TS]

01:14:21   air-traffic 11 but I'm i did this Specter to me is it's the first good you [TS]

01:14:27   know that there's always been a question I think we ran this post and gadget [TS]

01:14:30   years ago [TS]

01:14:31   what is the windows laptop right like what's the one that when you like i want [TS]

01:14:36   to buy windows laptop it's the one that you say you're going to buy what it used [TS]

01:14:39   to be a thinkpad in my opinion [TS]

01:14:41   yeah and then you know when i'm about to my old sketchy in the middle layer and [TS]

01:14:44   they're a lot better now but kinda sorta and they even those were kind of loaded [TS]

01:14:50   with like garbage and there was any number of bad dowels and people bought [TS]

01:14:54   the HP spectre is the first one a long time like yes that that's the one you [TS]

01:14:59   should buy even perhaps more than microsoft's on surface book which I i [TS]

01:15:04   think it's like a beautiful piece of design it with many confused ideas about [TS]

01:15:08   how large and heavy a tablet you'd like to use in your life [TS]

01:15:11   yeah I'm but it sits beautifully designed but i would love to see that [TS]

01:15:15   the team that designed Microsoft's surface [TS]

01:15:19   a notebook with the detachable screen i would love to see the exact same design [TS]

01:15:24   team to do a laptop that doesn't have a detachable screen gotta do it sometime [TS]

01:15:28   right it's like it's they made it detachable just to not piss off dell [TS]

01:15:32   yeah and it's like something like that and every single thing about the device [TS]

01:15:35   that I find if he other than the whole mac vs windows thing but just as it as a [TS]

01:15:40   device turned off is has to do with that the display and that compromises they [TS]

01:15:45   had to make it to make that work and so did actually comes out to the macro and [TS]

01:15:50   mac pro and you know there were lots of rumors about problems with surface books [TS]

01:15:55   that were somewhat related to sky like and I'm pretty sure apple just was like [TS]

01:16:00   you know what sky like it's kind of buggy and kind of got rushed out there [TS]

01:16:03   were just talking to touch it and I've definitely heard in the the weight the [TS]

01:16:08   way that I've heard about that the most is the issues of the surface book so who [TS]

01:16:12   knows I've often asked this question to me it's an interesting it's just when [TS]

01:16:17   you're talking to people about tech is what would you rather use would you [TS]

01:16:21   rather use a macbook hardware running windows or a pc laptop running Mac os10 [TS]

01:16:32   how does the trackpad work on both of these that's a great question right it's [TS]

01:16:40   like so you're saying you would probably take the windows pc laptop running Mac [TS]

01:16:46   os10 if you could be assured that you have a trackpad that was up this you [TS]

01:16:50   know pretty good yeah sure but I don't know if it's like Windows fault like if [TS]

01:16:55   you install windows [TS]

01:16:57   well they were it works pretty well I guess yeah I I at this point just [TS]

01:17:01   because of the how long in the tooth is if you assure me that the track that's [TS]

01:17:04   going to work well i would take a newer more higher-performing windows laptop [TS]

01:17:10   right now I would take even various mac OS i would even take a a pc with a [TS]

01:17:16   crummy trackpad running Mac os10 then run windows on a mac just because I'm so [TS]

01:17:22   mentally [TS]

01:17:24   proficient in the mac environment the software so much more important to me [TS]

01:17:28   than the hardware it's like the fact that apple also makes the best hardware [TS]

01:17:32   is just like a very nice that's lucky for me because the the OS platform that [TS]

01:17:39   I want to use you know happens to have the best hardware to be used criminal [TS]

01:17:45   uh not like seriously i mean i-i couldn't I did to me I just couldn't i [TS]

01:17:52   would always feel like I've got handcuffs on using just a browser so [TS]

01:17:59   it's that's same way over now they're doing android absolutely very excited to [TS]

01:18:03   see how that works out but and I i wrote about this i bought my mother a [TS]

01:18:08   Chromebook pixel instead of a retina macbook for Christmas because I like i [TS]

01:18:13   said this earlier in the show [TS]

01:18:14   I'm terrified of her using new software like it just it just a cruise back to be [TS]

01:18:19   in the form of support calls and so I was like you know how to make me a list [TS]

01:18:24   of what she doesn't like they're all it's all the web right like everything [TS]

01:18:29   she knows on the web and so I brought us Chromebook and what's interesting and I [TS]

01:18:33   never felt as for chrome OS is so close to a mac even down to the way the mouse [TS]

01:18:41   cursor looks that it's it's like a seamless transition if you're not out [TS]

01:18:47   looking for photoshop right it's like if you use a mac with chrome and I just [TS]

01:18:52   slide in a pixel you might not notice for a minute [TS]

01:18:56   except for the fact the hardware's a little bit different and it's it's that [TS]

01:18:59   close and it's amazing to me it's nothing it's obviously been seven months [TS]

01:19:03   since i bought her this computer [TS]

01:19:05   my mother is in love with this thing and what she's in love with the most is [TS]

01:19:09   because she generally uses for iphone and ipad when she gets home she still [TS]

01:19:14   she's touches the screen constantly and she's like opening chrome and then she [TS]

01:19:18   scrolled she doesn't scroll the mouse or the trackpad she strolls on the screen [TS]

01:19:22   and she clicks on links on the screen and it's actually that everybody i know [TS]

01:19:28   with the pixel is like yeah that's it just starts happening to you [TS]

01:19:31   it's crazy it's absolutely crazy to me but it's it's so close to a mac [TS]

01:19:36   experience that it [TS]

01:19:38   it comforts you and then it like leads you down a hole in the path I I'm not [TS]

01:19:43   surprised to hear that and I'd you know I think that you know I i hope that the [TS]

01:19:48   maxies around for a good long time but I think it's clear that for most people [TS]

01:19:58   Mac or Windows is overkill it's the fact that they're so capable and that there's [TS]

01:20:03   so much you can do at a technical level with native apps in a way that you can [TS]

01:20:07   install your own software and customize the user interface and all the you know [TS]

01:20:13   quote-unquote power user stuff that you can do and mac and windows is completely [TS]

01:20:19   over the heads and irrelevant for a good 95 96 97 percent of the world and when [TS]

01:20:26   you give them of those other people a device that don't have those sharp edges [TS]

01:20:31   and there is no way to miss configure the device it is such a relief for them [TS]

01:20:36   it's it is such a it's just like a huge weight off their shoulders i remember [TS]

01:20:40   talking to a friend [TS]

01:20:41   there's a couple WBC's ago who's father-in-law was i forget what he was [TS]

01:20:49   and he wasn't like finance or something like that but he was also sort of like [TS]

01:20:52   that the guy you know is his career but he was like the guy in the office who is [TS]

01:20:55   also with a pc enthusiasts [TS]

01:20:57   yeah and he was like a world-class excel expert you know he could do one of those [TS]

01:21:03   tables called the super complex tables in Excel pivot tables hit tables yeah so [TS]

01:21:09   he totally understood pivot tables inside and out was always a windows guy [TS]

01:21:14   and when he retired my friend you know he was like and I'm sick of all this [TS]

01:21:20   stuff on Windows you know there's so many problems with that I don't need [TS]

01:21:22   excel anymore and so my friend tried to get him to use a mac and got a mac [TS]

01:21:26   and it just never stuck I mean the guy's a tech enthusiasts and it's just never [TS]

01:21:30   stuck and then he bought himself an ipad and just just went flying just like and [TS]

01:21:37   net just his mac just sits there gathering dust and out its he just uses [TS]

01:21:41   an ipad for everything and this is a guy who is sort of a technical expert but [TS]

01:21:44   now that he doesn't need excel it and it's the fact that he'd like the he [TS]

01:21:48   knows that he can't miss configure there's nothing you can do on an iPad [TS]

01:21:51   that will render it you know [TS]

01:21:53   all right I shouldn't have done that it should have installed that it over wrote [TS]

01:21:57   my old you know the shared library and now this app doesn't work there's [TS]

01:22:01   nothing like that i actually i'm wondering using Apple's ever going to [TS]

01:22:05   put a full desktop class browser on the ipad rights it's like close but it's [TS]

01:22:10   it's just not there [TS]

01:22:11   no I think that the safari on the ipad is exactly what they wanted to be [TS]

01:22:15   especially now that they've increased the number of tabs right and you can do [TS]

01:22:18   that the sandals simultaneous screen thing [TS]

01:22:21   yeah that's the whole back for me it's I I could I could maybe get away with [TS]

01:22:25   using ipad for work but not having the desktop web browser I did it when I when [TS]

01:22:31   I when I reviewed the ipad pro the big one back in September and I really tried [TS]

01:22:36   to live full time on it for like two weeks and I kind i have so many little [TS]

01:22:41   like I said like little things that i've installed and customized on my mac over [TS]

01:22:44   the years and I never never stopped missing them and it was always like when [TS]

01:22:49   I gave up you know when i finish my review and and went back to my Mac it [TS]

01:22:52   was a huge relief [TS]

01:22:53   the one thing that happened to me though was that after two weeks on the ipad pro [TS]

01:22:57   I did start touching my macbook screen and I'm sort of animals and don't ever [TS]

01:23:03   touch my back my screen like it's entirely possible i think unless [TS]

01:23:08   somebody's snuck into my office here it's entirely possible that no fingertip [TS]

01:23:12   has ever touched my imac screen haha yeah I mean I guess I never liked think [TS]

01:23:19   about touching my next year there's nothing but i'll tell you after two [TS]

01:23:22   weeks of using the ipad pro exclusively I just inside I when I went back to my [TS]

01:23:26   macbook pro its it just touch the screen without thinking usually for scrolling [TS]

01:23:30   like yours is some saying there's it that we all think of touchscreen laptops [TS]

01:23:35   being ridiculous but there there's something there about [TS]

01:23:39   linking at least the scroll action back to what you do with a touchscreen device [TS]

01:23:44   and if there's something there and I don't know if it's like the right thing [TS]

01:23:48   but it's something let me take a one last break here and thank our third and [TS]

01:23:53   final sponsor and it's our good friends at casper hey they make obsessively [TS]

01:23:58   engineer mattresses at shockingly fair prices go to Casper calm / the talkshow [TS]

01:24:02   use that code the talk show this is another one with the thought that I love [TS]

01:24:07   in the code is a 50 bucks toward your mattress Casper has created one perfect [TS]

01:24:12   type of mattress in it a sell it directly to consumers eliminating [TS]

01:24:16   Commission's inflated prices the middleman at the mattress stores it they [TS]

01:24:22   developed in-house as a sleek design it's delivered in remarkably small boxes [TS]

01:24:28   i just saw this now that it in Manhattan you can get Casper delivered same day [TS]

01:24:32   you know this mean I yeah and it how do they deliver on bicycle so right that's [TS]

01:24:39   how small these boxes are working people put them on like a special rig on their [TS]

01:24:43   back and they just drive right through manhattan on bicycles and deliver [TS]

01:24:47   mattresses that's how small the boxes it is amazing it's worth buying and casper [TS]

01:24:51   mattresses just to see how small the boxes when it shows up at your house or [TS]

01:24:55   to open it because that's super fun it is very fun it's it is it's the [TS]

01:25:01   experience anything there is no way that this is going to work there's no way [TS]

01:25:05   that a nice mattress is coming out of this small box and it is it is a great [TS]

01:25:08   mattress and the prices are so amazing if you've ever gone mattress shopping [TS]

01:25:14   you'll know that these prices are great premium mattresses in retail stores [TS]

01:25:18   usually cost over 1,500 bucks casper mattresses start at five hundred bucks [TS]

01:25:22   for twin 754 full 854 queen and just nine hundred fifty bucks for a king-size [TS]

01:25:27   mattress and they're made in America right here in United States and they've [TS]

01:25:32   made you think I you know this is the big thing [TS]

01:25:35   do you really want to buy a mattress for 950 bucks get a king-size mattress that [TS]

01:25:39   you've never even tried that it's completely risk-free free delivery free [TS]

01:25:43   returns with a hundred knight home trial get it [TS]

01:25:47   sleep on it for three months and it you can say you know what don't like it [TS]

01:25:52   you just go on web say it send it back they'll come to your house get out of [TS]

01:25:57   there no questions asked no hard sell they don't they don't it's not like [TS]

01:26:00   trying to cancel your cable they'll just say ok that's how confident they are [TS]

01:26:03   that you're gonna like this mattress i have heard from so many readers who have [TS]

01:26:07   bought these mattresses and they're like I really thought it was weird buying a [TS]

01:26:10   mattress online without trying it [TS]

01:26:12   I so glad i did because this was the best experience I've ever had and going [TS]

01:26:16   to a regular retail mattress store is not the best experience you're ever [TS]

01:26:20   going to have [TS]

01:26:20   so go to Casper calm / the talk show and you'll say fifty bucks off the already [TS]

01:26:26   great prices [TS]

01:26:27   okay talk about this headphone port [TS]

01:26:33   yeah I green do this this is what people are waiting for this is we made him wait [TS]

01:26:36   like an hour and 45 minutes position [TS]

01:26:39   what was your headline your headline was removing the headline port is stupid and [TS]

01:26:45   user hostel youth hostel and student hostel stupid got that which I firmly [TS]

01:26:49   believe but it's a strong opinion weakly help [TS]

01:26:52   ah that's and that is why you and I get along that and i hope i feel the same [TS]

01:26:57   way and my retort some people misinterpret some people are saying that [TS]

01:27:01   we took it is me saying it would be great to get rid of the headphone port [TS]

01:27:04   my my summary of my take is more let's wait and see [TS]

01:27:09   like we don't know yet I don't know maybe you know if there are scenarios [TS]

01:27:13   there are ways that this could play out where i would say you know what this [TS]

01:27:15   doesn't just doesn't seem like an improvement [TS]

01:27:18   yeah so here's basically and I so I do believe it's wrong to take it out and [TS]

01:27:25   I'd you know it's actually one of the reasons you write something that is just [TS]

01:27:30   see how people are gonna respond then and like get some counter-arguments [TS]

01:27:33   right now its like before you do that it's a lot of people think i'm gonna do [TS]

01:27:37   it theres a river who knows i might suck it's like that's our good let's let's [TS]

01:27:40   debate but let's let's let's get out there [TS]

01:27:43   so here's my version of this which is it's it's one of the few places in [TS]

01:27:50   technology where the ecosystem connects into something much larger than apple or [TS]

01:27:56   computers or the tech industry it's an ecosystem of how we listen to things in [TS]

01:28:03   general [TS]

01:28:04   write an ecosystem has all kinds of facets that we're not taking into [TS]

01:28:10   account when we just think about a phone or a laptop or you know my USB audio [TS]

01:28:16   interface here whatever the hell is on there are lots of devices to connect to [TS]

01:28:21   a headphone jack that I'm less privileged people use I I'm like four [TS]

01:28:27   people have headphones are gonna make my new headphones or by dongle because the [TS]

01:28:31   most dominant phone vendor decided it was time there's all kinds of that's [TS]

01:28:35   just an interesting thing I'm there are tons and tons of accessibility devices [TS]

01:28:41   plugged into the headphone jack and I i mentioned in my piece and I'd anything [TS]

01:28:46   like expand on it because i don't want to sound too confident I'm not [TS]

01:28:50   particularly well versed in but I know it's true and cory doctorow actually [TS]

01:28:55   wrote another piece that kind of like expanding on which I thought was great i [TS]

01:28:57   did that for tomorrow [TS]

01:28:59   yeah . yeah . wing and look it up so that was good and then to me and this is [TS]

01:29:05   my first . and i actually went to law school because I felt so strongly in [TS]

01:29:10   college about audio and erm and piracy and napster I once you make almost all [TS]

01:29:19   the signal chain digital the content industry it cannot help itself it's like [TS]

01:29:24   it's just it's basic instinct is to try to lock it down and once you start [TS]

01:29:29   locking it down you start cutting off groups of people who have who wants to [TS]

01:29:34   do the right thing legally and so they can't because there they have to ask for [TS]

01:29:38   permission you can't get it and people who are going to do that you should [TS]

01:29:41   never ask permission let's break so you end up in that zone where you're harming [TS]

01:29:46   or people that are helping that to me because I'm saying the ecosystem is [TS]

01:29:51   bigger than computers or phones or Apple or the tech industry it's the ecosystem [TS]

01:29:56   of how in the world we connect speakers and headphones and other audio devices [TS]

01:30:01   together once you start fucking with that you start to have these knock-on [TS]

01:30:07   effects that are almost all negative and are almost all accruing control to some [TS]

01:30:13   other entity and I think that is really dangerous [TS]

01:30:16   the one you brought up that i didn't mention because i was talking about it [TS]

01:30:19   generally and because there's USBC headphones on the world not to use pc [TS]

01:30:22   phones but you brought up apple owns the licensing program for lightning that if [TS]

01:30:27   I and so now you have to act ask potentially not only apple for [TS]

01:30:30   permission to make the connector you might have to go get permission from [TS]

01:30:36   some you know third-party drm vendor to send Spotify through it or another DRAM [TS]

01:30:41   vendor to send your license netflix audio through it like I I'm sure that [TS]

01:30:47   people listening to this who think I'm insane but this is the history of [TS]

01:30:52   digital signal chains it is always what happens and that's me is the scariest [TS]

01:30:56   part i but i want to say that to me for everything else other than audio it's [TS]

01:31:01   always for I iphones and ipads always been lightning or the proprietary 30-pin [TS]

01:31:06   thing we'll just call it lightning since that's all the relevant today I don't [TS]

01:31:12   think the world of lightning peripherals is all that restricted I mean it's you [TS]

01:31:17   know but it's it is certainly different though we're like if you're you get to [TS]

01:31:21   the airport and you go through security and then you're like sorry I got an hour [TS]

01:31:27   to go let me listen to a podcast and you realize shit and I didn't pack [TS]

01:31:30   headphones [TS]

01:31:31   yeah you know you don't have to worry you're like well I'm out ten bucks i'll [TS]

01:31:35   just go by you know there's got to be a store here that sells there's probably a [TS]

01:31:41   store that you can see wherever you are in the airport right i go to any moment [TS]

01:31:45   you can probably see the place where you can go in the airport and you'll be able [TS]

01:31:48   to buy headphones and you're not you're not going to be a lot of money [TS]

01:31:51   you mean if you want to they usually is also a story that'll sell you four [TS]

01:31:55   hundred dollar pair of bose noise cancelling headphones too but you'll be [TS]

01:31:58   able to buy a pair of ten dollar at standard had fun of it there was an [TS]

01:32:01   airline the gonna give you for free [TS]

01:32:03   it happens all too yeah it's nappy head phones and there's a absolutely you know [TS]

01:32:08   even in the best-case scenario if this you know pans out there is no headphone [TS]

01:32:12   jack on the new phone [TS]

01:32:13   it's absolutely a trade-off and one of the biggest trade off is the universal [TS]

01:32:19   miss of that Jack so and i don't know maybe it really will be for the worse [TS]

01:32:24   I'm just saying you know [TS]

01:32:25   these changes always get people's dander riled up and in the long run it always [TS]

01:32:30   works out but the reason I'm saying specifically and that's a strong word I [TS]

01:32:34   pissed off a lot of people this word user hostel is it's not in service of a [TS]

01:32:40   greater need and it's not in service of greater value so you can't every time [TS]

01:32:45   apples killed something off there has been a successful technology that is in [TS]

01:32:50   my view delivered in order of magnitude improvement right so we kill the floppy [TS]

01:32:56   the cd-rom is sitting there can hold an order of magnitude more storage and we [TS]

01:33:01   you brought up ethernet jacks in response to my right to kill these are [TS]

01:33:06   Jax I don't know how they measure this but I'll just claim Wi-Fi is an order of [TS]

01:33:10   magnitude for convenient to meet or even track which can measure it out of [TS]

01:33:15   sherman and but there's always some like successor technology where there's some [TS]

01:33:20   incredible spike in value we kill vga want to DVI digital signals are higher [TS]

01:33:25   quality than that we kill DVI invented display port the port got smaller and it [TS]

01:33:30   displays are more capable we want to thunderbolt now we can daisy-chain them [TS]

01:33:34   for days [TS]

01:33:35   right like there's some reason that you want to do this thing over and over [TS]

01:33:38   again with the headphone jack the best arguments for it and I made a little bit [TS]

01:33:43   of fun you are one apples really good at doing this so we shouldn't have every [TS]

01:33:48   reason they might help with waterproofing which there are lots of [TS]

01:33:52   waterproof phones on the market right now that phone jacks and i'll make it [TS]

01:33:55   thinner and might make more space the battery i don't think that any of those [TS]

01:33:59   things in isolation or in combination provide an order about the order of [TS]

01:34:04   magnitude amount of value over the Universalists and the accessibility of [TS]

01:34:09   adventure [TS]

01:34:10   that's why I tend to think now at a gut level that the transition that they're [TS]

01:34:17   going to that the the message from Apple is going to be to go wireless [TS]

01:34:21   right because that to me is a an advantage and as somebody who owns a [TS]

01:34:26   pair of wireless your your funds are buds but you got [TS]

01:34:32   I have the beats whatever they're called had a lot of names they're the ones that [TS]

01:34:39   are just like the solo tues know another small they're just big just go in your [TS]

01:34:43   ear and over the eager on their wireless yes [TS]

01:34:46   cool i was singing at the big noise cancelling cans now i don't know i don't [TS]

01:34:50   have those and it's you know not getting caught not having a cable that can get [TS]

01:34:55   caught or that your arm gets called when you're running or bicycling or whatever [TS]

01:34:59   it is a huge advantage bluetooth kind of sucks though I mean it you know you even [TS]

01:35:03   linked to my thing where I've been saying for a while where the bluetooth [TS]

01:35:06   slogan should always be bluetooth it's going to be better next year so that's [TS]

01:35:12   why I've also started my writing about it and talking about it where I'm saying [TS]

01:35:16   I think the message from Apple is going to be Wireless not necessarily bluetooth [TS]

01:35:20   wireless so maybe they'll come up with and again this gets into the whole [TS]

01:35:23   proprietary very standard thing what if they come up with their thing that is [TS]

01:35:27   like what lightning is to what USB apples wireless technologies to [TS]

01:35:33   bluetooth it is an apple only but works proprietary thing and that you can just [TS]

01:35:38   who knows maybe just use NFC wouldn't even have to plug in a lightning just [TS]

01:35:42   rub the earphones against your iphone and they're paired right and that solves [TS]

01:35:47   the macbook dilemma right is looking yes you're only able to pair them if they're [TS]

01:35:52   blue sheet in particular cells macbook dilemma [TS]

01:35:54   well or Bluetooth better you know apple bluetooth + + that's you know [TS]

01:35:59   alright in bluetooth fives it is meteor the fall back to bluetooth so that you [TS]

01:36:03   could use them on an old macbook you know one that's not the new that I maybe [TS]

01:36:07   they're holding out and has the new NFC sort of pairing process i don't i'm just [TS]

01:36:12   imagining and again maybe hon maybe I'm Way too optimistic i'm just a or wishful [TS]

01:36:20   thinking i don't know but I'm just hoping that they come out you know that [TS]

01:36:22   the answer is if the headphone jack is going away the answer is we've got these [TS]

01:36:26   new wireless ones and you're going to be here soon as you use them you're going [TS]

01:36:30   to be I can't believe I spent all those years with the cable connecting my [TS]

01:36:33   headphones to my phone because I think and that's why I just think connecting [TS]

01:36:37   headphones to the Lightning port [TS]

01:36:39   it it it it just doesn't win and I don't think it's like it isn't it [TS]

01:36:44   you're gonna have an adapter or you're gonna have one pair of headphones that [TS]

01:36:48   you lose its it's kind of the same thing the wireless like I almost think they [TS]

01:36:52   have to lose 5 is here at the standard how it's been talking about it if they [TS]

01:36:58   go with something like blue 25 which like I said it could be the year because [TS]

01:37:03   this could be the one I'm then then now you stupid argument where it's okay [TS]

01:37:09   here's a standard we can put these headphones everywhere [TS]

01:37:12   I'm you know the the free set on the airplane come with a cheapo adapter for [TS]

01:37:17   lightning and we can use with your mac ok that's a fine set of arguments but [TS]

01:37:22   what you do lose over and over and over again is just the the universality of [TS]

01:37:29   this thing that is literally been around for ever like you know that the quarter [TS]

01:37:35   and Shaq is like 1898 like there's a reason it sticks around there's a reason [TS]

01:37:40   that you know Sony tried to build a proprietary Jack with a dongle that [TS]

01:37:43   could plug that phone into HTC try to do it [TS]

01:37:46   there's a really great getting to the headphone jack might be land war in Asia [TS]

01:37:50   right yeah it's like it's it's just everyone has failed to do this and Apple [TS]

01:37:54   has a unique scale and they have a unique market power I I think [TS]

01:37:59   unparalleled in the history of consumer goods to just lead people down the road [TS]

01:38:04   I'm but this might be the one and I just don't know and I I think you're saying [TS]

01:38:09   we don't know in my take on it is the the amount of obvious risk that you are [TS]

01:38:16   taking to do this like blindly obvious risk versus the amount of currently [TS]

01:38:21   available for the benefit is just way lopsided like that this is the reason [TS]

01:38:27   people say i'm not going to buy a new iphone this year and they're already in [TS]

01:38:31   the zone where people are beginning to say i'm not going to buy new iphone this [TS]

01:38:34   year and maybe maybe we're gonna take away this year and they're gonna bring [TS]

01:38:37   it back on the iphone 7 10 year anniversary it's the most beautiful [TS]

01:38:40   design everyone's like electron Jack's back and that's other planning to do it [TS]

01:38:44   like maybe there's a whiteboard somewhere that's like here's what we'll [TS]

01:38:48   do we'll kill sales this year and next year will bring it back in the sales [TS]

01:38:51   side [TS]

01:38:52   like no I doubt it i don't think they could ever bring it back i think I don't [TS]

01:38:56   I well but this but this is one of those reasons I think that when are already in [TS]

01:39:02   his own weather sales are starting to plateau because not everybody buys my [TS]

01:39:05   phone every year and they're trying to get people into that place with their [TS]

01:39:09   own upgrade plan nearly all the carriers are trying to get you to do it [TS]

01:39:13   this is one of those like moments when a lot of people would say maybe I don't [TS]

01:39:18   need a new phone because that sucks [TS]

01:39:20   yeah it would be interesting to see I mean it'd be interesting to see if it [TS]

01:39:23   actually you know and and you if sales are disappointing of this new iphone [TS]

01:39:29   with thing I mean it's with the without the headphone port it might be [TS]

01:39:32   impossible to say for sure that why but you know because it it might also be you [TS]

01:39:37   know people say well people are also bored with the design everybody hopes to [TS]

01:39:40   has a two-year-old iphone 6 they think this phone still looks the same stuff [TS]

01:39:43   that just hang on for another year and you never know what the reason is for [TS]

01:39:47   sure of right across an entire population I think the reason they're [TS]

01:39:51   leaking out early to the journal and others like it's going to look the same [TS]

01:39:55   is to set those lower yes [TS]

01:39:57   yeah i think so too there is another explanation for why Apple is doing it [TS]

01:40:03   that is technical and isn't really about a better solution for audio to users and [TS]

01:40:12   if if this if the keynote event in September comes and they're not really [TS]

01:40:17   talking about wireless headphones and really talking about just same old [TS]

01:40:21   earpods tonight plug them into the Lightning port then I think that the [TS]

01:40:25   explanation for why they're doing it is about next year's phone having this [TS]

01:40:29   edge-to-edge top-to-bottom display and then putting the headphone jack [TS]

01:40:33   underneath that display really is a problem like I the waterproofing is [TS]

01:40:38   obviously not a problem because it's waterproof phones with the headphone [TS]

01:40:41   jack the battery explanation I I regret even going there because I feel like [TS]

01:40:46   however much space the headphone jack takes out [TS]

01:40:48   I don't think adding that space in the corner is really gonna affect battery [TS]

01:40:54   life too much I mean every inch counts are every square millimeter counts [TS]

01:40:58   inside these devices especially as they get dinner but the fact that they want [TS]

01:41:03   to go edge-to-edge with the display top to bottom [TS]

01:41:06   as close to edge to edge as that currently is side-to-side i think really [TS]

01:41:10   could be a problem with the headphone jack with as far you know into the [TS]

01:41:14   devices it inserts and so rather than doing it [TS]

01:41:17   introducing this no headphone jack next year when they do that with this radical [TS]

01:41:21   new design it's better to do it now and get people on board a year in advance is [TS]

01:41:26   the home button a bigger problem in that this place all over all kinds of other [TS]

01:41:29   stuff right i mean these are this is one of the best engineering companies and [TS]

01:41:33   well suppose what I've heard supposedly is that the home button is on will be on [TS]

01:41:37   the screen and it will be covered with pixels so you'll be you know i'm not [TS]

01:41:40   quite I don't know any details about how that's exactly gonna work but that [TS]

01:41:44   you'll have some kind of thing that you'll feel on the display but when [TS]

01:41:49   you're not using it will be covered [TS]

01:41:50   you know it'll be like usable space for apps sure be no I'm just saying like if [TS]

01:41:56   they can put the display over the battery and the processor and that [TS]

01:41:59   everything else you mean do the same problem the Lightning port [TS]

01:42:03   I don't know well the Lightning port distant goes in so much it's so much [TS]

01:42:08   shallower than the headphone jack and it's dinner right now heading in the [TS]

01:42:13   right direction [TS]

01:42:14   it's just it's one of those things where a thing that I never want to do is [TS]

01:42:19   assume that Apple isn't good enough to do something because they're it's clear [TS]

01:42:23   that they can solve problems in a variety of like it's the same with [TS]

01:42:26   google and like Facebook you know it's that these are the highest and companies [TS]

01:42:30   in the world like if if they can't figure it out it's rarely because [TS]

01:42:34   there's some huge blocker that they can't either like Moore's law won't take [TS]

01:42:38   them over or they can't design around it something else [TS]

01:42:41   yeah that's why I'm sticking with my optimistic smile optimistic take that [TS]

01:42:45   their message is you should go wireless because the long run of Apple devices is [TS]

01:42:50   as get eliminated as many cables as possible [TS]

01:42:54   yeah you know I saw this in maybe this is just because i'm a huge nerd maybe [TS]

01:42:58   the vast majority people i kept wireless that's what i want to do is I'm i went [TS]

01:43:02   to Tudor been sweating and and we know it is a different story [TS]

01:43:08   well I did go to his wedding was great and I was thinking of a different time [TS]

01:43:12   that he put a microSD card into it [TS]

01:43:14   samsung phone and [TS]

01:43:17   we shot at us and we shot this 360 thing and I needed to put it on a headset and [TS]

01:43:22   the only way we could get it in time was to put a microSD card into a computer [TS]

01:43:27   and then stick it in the back of a phone and it was like I use the phone was [TS]

01:43:30   computer and I open the file and ran with it and we were just sitting there [TS]

01:43:34   how would you do that an iphone it's like almost impossible to move a file [TS]

01:43:37   that big night fast man [TS]

01:43:39   and there's there is just this value to that kind of extensibility and you can [TS]

01:43:44   see where the two platforms will diverge and at this might be one of those [TS]

01:43:48   moments when they're gonna get more divergent because the android phone is [TS]

01:43:53   going to be the one with I'm removable storage and a headphone jack and a USBC [TS]

01:43:58   port and all these standards and connectivity and and and an app store [TS]

01:44:04   that lets you sideload and all this other stuff and it's more of a computer [TS]

01:44:07   and the iphone is the sheet of glass that commands you to use it and [TS]

01:44:11   certainly I was at the eye eye doctor yesterday and and what they know for [TS]

01:44:17   some reason I don't even know how it came about but they know who what I do [TS]

01:44:21   they know that I'm you know right about apple stuff and I think it's because the [TS]

01:44:25   actual my actual eye doctor she's a bit of a technology as an Apple watch it and [TS]

01:44:31   her while i was waiting the room I was you know those in like that the [TS]

01:44:37   optometrist chair and it's right it's right behind the receptionist desk and [TS]

01:44:42   she was just asking me hey what you know she knows what I do and she's like [TS]

01:44:45   what's coming up what's new what's the big thing you know trying to talk shop [TS]

01:44:48   and I said believe it believe in hot [TS]

01:44:51   hey it's it's that the next iPhone is going to remain that donate Jack and its [TS]

01:44:55   really all everybody in the industry is talking about this headphone jack and I [TS]

01:44:59   it sounds as I to as these words are coming out of my mouth and I tell you [TS]

01:45:03   that that's the next big thing I can't believe that I'm telling you that but [TS]

01:45:06   you asked and asked the attack and I thought that is it just sounded so goofy [TS]

01:45:12   once i started saying it but it really is to me fascinating because it's it [TS]

01:45:16   could play out so many different ways [TS]

01:45:19   well it's it like I'm saying it this relates back to the very beginning of [TS]

01:45:22   the show [TS]

01:45:23   like what what do I want to cover the verge it's how technology impacts the [TS]

01:45:27   culture right it's it's that's the focus [TS]

01:45:30   and the culture of how we listen to everything was is built around this Jack [TS]

01:45:38   it's wild actually it's just it's everywhere as we discussed it on an [TS]

01:45:43   audio only podcast that will be you know anybody who hears this discussion is [TS]

01:45:48   using headphones or speakers getting audio off the device somehow yeah and [TS]

01:45:53   actually it's funny anything market really stats so many people just with my [TS]

01:45:57   wife does us they just let you use the speaker on the phone maybe that's what [TS]

01:46:00   Apple's banking on is that most people are just like fuck it and they just used [TS]

01:46:03   to speak up i don't know that [TS]

01:46:07   yeah i just think it's it's and it's another one of these inflection points [TS]

01:46:11   when it's ok we're going to want to jump off the deep end and what is the audio [TS]

01:46:14   industry look like now [TS]

01:46:16   chaos me like that I'm gonna call that a wrap [TS]

01:46:20   yeah thank you for your time this was great this is everything everything I [TS]

01:46:24   wanted to be a people want to follow you on twitter they can find you at reckless [TS]

01:46:27   without the W sound like a skateboard shop [TS]

01:46:33   yeah exactly that would be reckless yeah I and of course your editor-in-chief of [TS]

01:46:39   The Verge which it needs no introduction anybody is listening this is not her to [TS]

01:46:44   the verge must be fresh out of prison and we welcome you [TS]

01:46:49   yes society yeah yeah like my thanks to our sponsors Casper where you go to buy [TS]

01:46:56   a mattress Harry's where you go to buy razors and blades and hiro de ro the top [TS]

01:47:03   notch Wi-Fi system that will fill your house with Wi-Fi [TS]