The Talk Show

154: ‘Facebook on Your Face’, With Special Guest Rene Ritchie


00:00:00   how is sunny California it's great i mean it was snowing in montreal this [TS]

00:00:04   week before i left which is just climate chaos and then I got here and it was a [TS]

00:00:09   heat wave so it's great [TS]

00:00:10   ah so anyway you are out there and what else you're doing but I know yesterday [TS]

00:00:14   you were at the grand opening of the new or I guess it's not really the grand [TS]

00:00:19   opening I guess that's tomorrow but yeah that the sort of preview opening of the [TS]

00:00:23   new flagship apple store in san francisco right off right at the top of [TS]

00:00:29   the hill at union square [TS]

00:00:31   yeah it was that sort of this preview event is open officially on Saturdays [TS]

00:00:34   when the general public can go and just we'll see how you like normal people [TS]

00:00:37   react to the store especially when they're at capacity but he had a small [TS]

00:00:40   event yesterday with Angela errands which was very nice [TS]

00:00:42   so tell me about it well the thing that the thing that was remarkable to me up [TS]

00:00:47   front as they brought us in and you know they said angela was going to speak and [TS]

00:00:50   when there was all this internet stuff previously about you know why is Apple [TS]

00:00:53   hiding Angela Angela errands while why is an apple showcasing your wife and she [TS]

00:00:57   on the stage and she even around anymore and you knew that that was bullshit [TS]

00:01:00   because you see on campus like she's a presence that Apple she's everywhere she [TS]

00:01:04   does phenomenal work but she came out and it was very similar to how i [TS]

00:01:09   remember Johnny I've coming out for the unibody macbook event many years ago [TS]

00:01:13   where she said you flatly this is not her favorite thing to do and she ask [TS]

00:01:17   like a bottle of water and she got talkin and it's just like she's so [TS]

00:01:21   passionate if you wanted to do this but clearly you're being on an appletini its [TS]

00:01:24   keen on stage is not top of her personal list of things interesting [TS]

00:01:27   I did I wouldn't have you know that's you know maybe that's the simple [TS]

00:01:31   explanation for why we haven't seen our own state too often that she doesn't [TS]

00:01:34   have to be just like Johnny I mean like not everyone wants to do that stuff [TS]

00:01:38   yeah i think people you know before all of the and some of it you know certainly [TS]

00:01:47   warranted all of the debate over you know the diversity of the people who are [TS]

00:01:52   on stage at apple event it's easy to overlook the fact that a lot of people [TS]

00:01:55   really not just don't like it but really have like a it's just it's just it's so [TS]

00:02:03   stressful to go and speak in front of the audience that it's you know it [TS]

00:02:06   undesirable you know they just don't want to do it [TS]

00:02:09   yeah well they work on my Craig federighi he was not great the first . [TS]

00:02:12   it but he's got better and better every year at it and some of that is just [TS]

00:02:15   gonna have to get you give people that time those opportunities and maybe [TS]

00:02:18   smaller events like this is a good way to do it they can sort of get [TS]

00:02:21   comfortable with it and then become very good at those great jobs there's that I [TS]

00:02:26   think it's malcolm gladwell who's got this theory that it takes 10,000 hours [TS]

00:02:29   to get good at something which you know roll your eyes because it's malcolm [TS]

00:02:33   gladwell and it's sort of anecdotal but with Craig federighi it's like he needed [TS]

00:02:37   like an hour and a half [TS]

00:02:39   yes he needed like like he had like one is first time he came back was I think [TS]

00:02:45   it was the back to the mac event that was a town-hall I was not there I would [TS]

00:02:49   I actually watched that one remotely and his he would was doing the demos that [TS]

00:02:55   these features on a mac and his hands were literally shaking like he couldn't [TS]

00:02:59   he really couldn't do the mousing required to to do the demo it was like [TS]

00:03:05   clicking wrong because his hands were so shaky it was almost hard to watch as you [TS]

00:03:10   know it unless you know it it's hard to watch somebody who's that nervous [TS]

00:03:14   speaking then like the next time he came out he was much better and then by the [TS]

00:03:19   third time he did it event he's like well he may be the best public speaker [TS]

00:03:22   at the company [TS]

00:03:23   yeah it was phenomenal and a they had i'm planning on her name right now but [TS]

00:03:28   the woman who is the vice president of Apple pay was just phenomenal first time [TS]

00:03:31   out [TS]

00:03:31   yeah the person covering news really good to make jokes about so much sports [TS]

00:03:35   illustrated phenomenal and and that kind of stuff I'm really eager to see more oh [TS]

00:03:38   yeah so tell me about the store itself it so what I loved about this is that in [TS]

00:03:44   typical apple fashion most companies were just they would give anything to [TS]

00:03:48   have a business like apple store nevermind business like Apple just it [TS]

00:03:50   it's such a valuable property that's so many so many billions of dollars and [TS]

00:03:53   transactions really a beloved retail experience and messing with that is [TS]

00:03:57   super scary because you do anything wrong you risk damaging that business [TS]

00:04:01   and that's big business for Apple but they they don't just I think will make [TS]

00:04:05   the genius bar 3 inches longer will change the would always incremental [TS]

00:04:09   things to improve them will make the quality of the screens better they re [TS]

00:04:12   thought everything from the beginning so is Angela errands team and johnny is [TS]

00:04:16   team and the companies that they worked with and they brought everything back to [TS]

00:04:19   the essence and it wasn't you know do we keep the theaters we [TS]

00:04:23   exit theaters or do we do something with the genius bar it's what is our core [TS]

00:04:26   principle what governs what we're going to do with apple stores and she [TS]

00:04:29   mentioned that apple store is the biggest product that Apple ships to [TS]

00:04:32   customers and they've had a long history but apple online now does so much people [TS]

00:04:38   can just go there in order and they don't necessarily have to go to stores [TS]

00:04:41   anymore to do that and likewise support.apple.com and apple support on [TS]

00:04:45   twitter handle a lot of the low-level queries now so if you just have a [TS]

00:04:48   software issue or you just need help her how to information they handle all that [TS]

00:04:53   so it's not necessary for the genius bars to do the same load they used to do [TS]

00:04:56   so they wanted to figure out what made the apple store relevant to customers [TS]

00:05:00   these days what would make them actually want to go there and they settled on [TS]

00:05:03   this overarching theme of community that the apple store to be the central hub of [TS]

00:05:07   the Apple community and it starts with those giant 40-foot doors on both sides [TS]

00:05:11   that you make your Apple car drive through jokes but they really want to be [TS]

00:05:14   able to open up the entire store and make it part of that block almost like a [TS]

00:05:18   one open-air market interesting I I you know and I can definitely say here in [TS]

00:05:25   Philadelphia I i tend to walk by the you know it's just it in a busy retail area [TS]

00:05:31   so no surprise that I'm not walking by the apple store a lot and you know like [TS]

00:05:36   most apple stores always almost always very pretty crowded and it's definitely [TS]

00:05:41   not just people who are shopping for things I mean there are definitely [TS]

00:05:44   people who just going to hang out you know check their email and and stuff [TS]

00:05:48   like that [TS]

00:05:49   yeah and the end they're taking that whole approach they're applying it to [TS]

00:05:54   everything so there's a giant screen now and if people remember that used to be a [TS]

00:05:57   movie theater at the old union square store but now they have this giant 6k [TS]

00:06:01   display and it looks seamless to me it looked like it was actually one display [TS]

00:06:04   and I immediately just wanted to take it home [TS]

00:06:06   they don't sell it and that's right in the middle of what they call forum now [TS]

00:06:10   and forum has this little box and ball seats that you can sit on and they can [TS]

00:06:14   make it one big room where a developer or an expert can come and give a talk [TS]

00:06:18   with you can also split up into smaller area so you can have several people [TS]

00:06:22   doing smaller talks the same time and the screen can be used for presentation [TS]

00:06:25   but also just shows information and all the iconography is exactly like iOS and [TS]

00:06:30   its uses [TS]

00:06:31   San Francisco is a typeface so it it was built to be an apple product what would [TS]

00:06:35   a nap [TS]

00:06:35   old what iOS look like running on a 6k displays exactly what you'd expect with [TS]

00:06:40   this [TS]

00:06:40   yeah I get this big displays are part of the I mean and every you know a lot of [TS]

00:06:46   these stores are have to fit the existing space they can't just say [TS]

00:06:51   here's the dimensions that we want its you know we're in a historic building [TS]

00:06:54   here so you know here's you know here's what we have to work with but those big [TS]

00:06:58   displays are definitely part of the new store design [TS]

00:07:02   yeah they took the genius bar in the city would be nice bar it's got some [TS]

00:07:06   negative connotations like it's loud it's noisy people are elevating [TS]

00:07:09   everyone's fighting for their chance to get to the genius bar tender and it's [TS]

00:07:12   not the experience they want to give anymore especially now that a lot of the [TS]

00:07:15   software and and basic health and how to stuff is moved online so now they have [TS]

00:07:18   the genius grove which is right up front honest or not in the back anymore and [TS]

00:07:22   it's part of its part of that area where the forum is with a lot of these open [TS]

00:07:25   tables and open seating and those trees that people might have seen at the [TS]

00:07:28   Belgium store previously you can just go and sit there and get help with your mac [TS]

00:07:32   or iphone or ipad for hardware issues or other things they can't solve online and [TS]

00:07:36   not feel sort of crowded around a little table anymore [TS]

00:07:39   that's interesting it's interesting that they would move that to the front the [TS]

00:07:42   whole thing was to producing to have a boardroom there and I don't know that [TS]

00:07:45   they said like some of these features will move to other stores and some of [TS]

00:07:48   them have tried already but there's something called boardroom where it's [TS]

00:07:51   apples approaching enterprise and big business with oracle partnerships and [TS]

00:07:55   IBM partnerships but for smaller businesses for entrepreneurs 4pcs for [TS]

00:07:59   some sort of the Kickstarter stuff they have boardroom now where people can go [TS]

00:08:03   in and not only get help with that but also network and make connections and [TS]

00:08:07   they're saying that such a that part of san francisco is so rich with that kind [TS]

00:08:10   of culture that they wanted a nexus almost like an apple central Nexus for [TS]

00:08:13   them and became the boardroom area and the retail stuff was super interesting [TS]

00:08:18   too because they have the Avenue now so the Avenue used to have those [TS]

00:08:22   accessories but if anyone has seen pictures of the new infinite loop store [TS]

00:08:24   or the new store in New York and I think the one in Belgium to they've got these [TS]

00:08:29   these pains instead of just having cases that there's cases on shelves and you [TS]

00:08:33   see the individual cases so they have it's an avenue to have almost like [TS]

00:08:36   little boutiques called windows where there's different sets of accessories [TS]

00:08:39   like cases and photography equipment music and they have a new Apple job [TS]

00:08:42   they're called the creative pro and the creative pros job is to help you're [TS]

00:08:47   supposed to touch everything try everything sample [TS]

00:08:49   everything and if you need help i'll show you the basics if you don't know [TS]

00:08:52   anything [TS]

00:08:53   the basics of photography music but they can also go up to and including lessons [TS]

00:08:56   on final cut pro or logic pro if you want to take that that next step up and [TS]

00:09:00   they really want to make that sort of your introduction to apple experience [TS]

00:09:03   and it really is the whole back of the store just one long run for that [TS]

00:09:07   so what do you think that gets it an improvement [TS]

00:09:10   it's just an evolution it's it's super interesting the last thing that [TS]

00:09:14   invention is that they also have this garden is neglected area they've turned [TS]

00:09:17   into a garden where 24 7 Wi-Fi with seating and it's can fit up to 200 [TS]

00:09:21   people and it's it's interesting as an experiment and i like that Apple is not [TS]

00:09:25   just doing that incremental thing that they're willing to take risks with this [TS]

00:09:28   that you know Johnny I've and dandelions are passionate about this it'll be [TS]

00:09:32   interesting to see how people react to it i usually go into an apple store to [TS]

00:09:35   see like dozens of kids around a machine to use facebook or something like that [TS]

00:09:39   but this this really does seem like a place where people like us where we're [TS]

00:09:44   really good at handling Apple technology we only go there if we break our screen [TS]

00:09:47   or something and we need a logic board to play something something really [TS]

00:09:50   serious happens but for a lot of people um I feel totally alienated going into a [TS]

00:09:54   lot of course I go into a liquor store and I got a text you or somebody [TS]

00:09:57   different eyes I just have no idea what I'm doing and I feel bad I feel anxious [TS]

00:10:01   and a little bit embarrassed and dumb and for a lot of people that's what [TS]

00:10:05   technology is like and if they can go to an apple store and you'll get greeted [TS]

00:10:09   and get help and get shown things and learn things and I think it de-stresses [TS]

00:10:12   all that and it shows that Apple really is playing the long game still it's not [TS]

00:10:16   that they don't bring you in there and hustle even force you to buy a case just [TS]

00:10:19   to get a quick sale they want to make that Apple brand super important to you [TS]

00:10:22   so that even if you don't need something now you're just curious [TS]

00:10:25   you'll think that Apple's to create experiences when you do want something [TS]

00:10:28   that that's exactly what you're gonna go [TS]

00:10:30   yeah I do think you know and though it's funny looking back pieces at this point [TS]

00:10:34   like the Apple stores being ubiquitous I mean they're they're pretty much [TS]

00:10:41   everywhere and being successful [TS]

00:10:44   it's been long enough that we just take it for granted that going back to when [TS]

00:10:48   they first started it it was widely panned and you know it's like a massive [TS]

00:10:53   file of claim chapter in my bookmarks of people who were predicting doom you know [TS]

00:10:59   because every other computer company that had ever tried their own branded [TS]

00:11:02   store [TS]

00:11:02   before failed miserably I mean gateway isn't even a company anymore [TS]

00:11:07   no yeah totally and it's just it just gets to the heart of why Apple is not [TS]

00:11:12   like other computer companies [TS]

00:11:14   I mean and part of it is just as simple as the fact that they do hardware and [TS]

00:11:20   software which sounds like well come on that's not that big a deal but it just [TS]

00:11:24   it it's not necessarily because they do hardware and software it's the what [TS]

00:11:29   makes apple different is why they do hardware and software right i would say [TS]

00:11:33   that the fact that they do the hardware and software is the result of you know [TS]

00:11:37   it's the effect and that the cause is just the way that Apple approaches this [TS]

00:11:41   stuff is different and their stores are emblematic of them absolutely if you [TS]

00:11:46   look at Apple the consistent theme from the from the Apple to all the way to [TS]

00:11:49   something like an Iowa an Apple watch or or apple TV is the mainstreaming of [TS]

00:11:53   computing technology to macro democratization of access to ubiquitous [TS]

00:11:57   computing and the apple store is like that it's a way to it's a way to reach [TS]

00:12:00   people as a way to make people want to sort of get it get make this and you [TS]

00:12:05   called just before like this affordable luxury where technology shouldn't be [TS]

00:12:08   just kept afloat to a small few people there should be something that's [TS]

00:12:11   off-putting are inaccessible or something makes you feel bad about [TS]

00:12:14   yourself it should be something that everybody can use to enhance their lives [TS]

00:12:17   and apple people debate other to start with a hardware company software [TS]

00:12:20   companies really a product company they make wonderful products because they [TS]

00:12:22   want to give you a great experience and this is absolutely an extension of that [TS]

00:12:25   I do think there's in it's pretty clear that the the architectural evolution of [TS]

00:12:31   the apple store has gotten a lot more humane i would say where the original [TS]

00:12:37   design was sort of like being inside a probably at the time it was a powerbook [TS]

00:12:42   you know they would it was sort of like an aluminum walls and it was you know [TS]

00:12:48   almost utilitarian yeah it was a very not quite like you're in a sci-fi movie [TS]

00:12:53   but futuristic and definitely forward-thinking and a little cold [TS]

00:12:57   little clean and you know utilitarian is a good way to put it on and that the [TS]

00:13:04   stores got warmer when they started going more towards wood and getting away [TS]

00:13:08   from the metal walls and i know most or all of the original apple stores that [TS]

00:13:14   had that first look [TS]

00:13:15   all of them i think of it at at one point or another been shut down to be [TS]

00:13:19   renovated to be updated to the more humane look but this new look which is [TS]

00:13:24   sort of like a three point out is downright organic I mean there are [TS]

00:13:28   actual plants you know on the walls and as trees in the middle right and if the [TS]

00:13:33   stores are big enough to even have trees and this one has a garden wall [TS]

00:13:37   the only thing that was curious to me they don't have the glowing logo anymore [TS]

00:13:39   that was so used to and seeing on the stories they now actually have something [TS]

00:13:42   that's the game bed stainless steel I logo that you see on a macbook or an [TS]

00:13:46   iPhone or an iPad and that's it's big and it's space gray and spiteful the [TS]

00:13:49   side of the building is so it's not on the front of the building it on the side [TS]

00:13:53   well I'm not sure what is actually the front because you have those two big [TS]

00:13:56   doors to the front and the back door and those take up the entire walls or 40 [TS]

00:13:59   foot at door so then in between those on the other side you have the giant apple [TS]

00:14:03   logo somebody who's selling big pieces of glass is making a lot of money from [TS]

00:14:09   apple [TS]

00:14:10   hey yeah especially considering campus to like exactly at this point ma'am I i [TS]

00:14:18   guess my only worry with the apple store is that I if I have to be play devil's [TS]

00:14:23   advocate [TS]

00:14:24   I worry that maybe they're getting a little unfocused that maybe you know [TS]

00:14:30   that that shouldn't there be a focus to this and i would say that originally the [TS]

00:14:35   focus was very simple it was to let people come in and see him play and [TS]

00:14:39   touch apple products because it's the best way and and i think this was a lot [TS]

00:14:43   more important in the early parts of the last decade you know let's say the the [TS]

00:14:49   when people call them the ipod company because people didn't know apple [TS]

00:14:53   products because they were you know rats relative to now so many you know or an [TS]

00:14:58   order of magnitude fewer customers maybe two orders of magnitude for customers [TS]

00:15:02   and the thing that makes apple products desirable is are things that you really [TS]

00:15:08   have to see them and use it yourself to see how nice they are like you can say [TS]

00:15:12   that something is that you know this ipod is nicer than other music players [TS]

00:15:16   but you really have to use it and see how it feels when you spend the you know [TS]

00:15:22   the the wheel the click wheel or in the modern time to just load a webpage and [TS]

00:15:27   see how how much better [TS]

00:15:28   the trackpad is then the windows trackpad you might be used to etcetera [TS]

00:15:32   and you go through like you can't just say hey at max have much nicer trackpads [TS]

00:15:37   than the crappy windows machine you're used to that you can say it but it's [TS]

00:15:42   seeing is believing and that was the purpose of the stores let people see [TS]

00:15:46   these things make it easy to buy them and once you have them make it easy to [TS]

00:15:50   get help with them and that was it and now I feel like by making it a community [TS]

00:15:54   hub i wonder if-if there you know just again to play devil's advocate is it [TS]

00:15:59   worrisome that there may be losing focus so i think that's absolutely valid i'm [TS]

00:16:04   wondering how much of the community focus is actually the sugar candy [TS]

00:16:07   coating on this because you sort of go through those three stages you meant you [TS]

00:16:11   mentioned where Apple stores became a place we could go by apple products and [TS]

00:16:14   that was perfect timing [TS]

00:16:16   it was one of the few that one of the many things that was the confluence that [TS]

00:16:18   led to iphone becoming the astronomical business that it was an apple mate [TS]

00:16:22   iphone super available the apple stores but then there was this whole move [TS]

00:16:25   towards the halo effect where once you got an iphone that was one of your [TS]

00:16:28   gateway to apple and then there was the back to my Mac event and it wasn't an [TS]

00:16:31   iphone you go to the apple store maybe you didn't matter you get an ipad but [TS]

00:16:35   now we're getting to a point where these products are so make sure that these [TS]

00:16:38   have to start looking for extra markets and that there is apple watch an apple [TS]

00:16:41   TV and those sort of become satellites around the iphone but now there really [TS]

00:16:44   is this move especially with that new Avenue set up towards the things that [TS]

00:16:48   now that iphone is built out as a platform things you can build up from [TS]

00:16:52   the iPhone platform and that is photography and music and and things [TS]

00:16:55   like cases which are some more to watch bands for phones and sort of lets while [TS]

00:17:00   the iphone business might be maturing it lets Apple build all these other small [TS]

00:17:03   businesses that aren't as valuable as iphone but taken together might become [TS]

00:17:07   very very valuable for Apple alright and I can't can't move on from the store [TS]

00:17:12   without mentioning the giant window or giant doors that easily could [TS]

00:17:16   accommodate class when you look at that front showroom do you can you imagine a [TS]

00:17:23   like two cars on the floor is a room for that [TS]

00:17:27   yeah it's funny because i went from the apple store went down to santana row [TS]

00:17:32   lately where they have later where they have a Tesla store and test the store [TS]

00:17:35   looks very much like that front of that apple store once that's open they have [TS]

00:17:39   room for to Teslas and about the bottom chassis there so three [TS]

00:17:42   arts and essence footprint and absolutely if you move those tables out [TS]

00:17:46   out of the way you can easily see especially if Apple goes for something [TS]

00:17:49   small and smart qari see a couple that was right in front [TS]

00:17:54   alright let me take a break and thank our first sponsor it is our good friends [TS]

00:17:58   at Casper Casper sells obsessively obsessively engineered mattresses at [TS]

00:18:06   shockingly fair prices go to Casper calm / the talk show and just use that code [TS]

00:18:12   the talk show when you checkout and you'll say fifty bucks on any mattress [TS]

00:18:16   so here's the deal Casper created one perfect mattress for at least one [TS]

00:18:21   technology for the mattress it is air their own custom version of foam [TS]

00:18:27   mattress it is sort of like memory foam sort of like it's just the right balance [TS]

00:18:35   that's the thing it's it's there it is always say that they're a lot like Apple [TS]

00:18:38   where instead of coming into a mattress store and picking between ten different [TS]

00:18:43   types of mattresses seven different types of foam or spring or this and you [TS]

00:18:48   want this kind of sink you want this kind of ends now [TS]

00:18:50   forget it Casper's engineers figured out the right type of foam that's the best [TS]

00:18:55   for most people and that's it and then all you have to do is pick what size you [TS]

00:18:59   want that's it you just pick what size it could not be easier and because they [TS]

00:19:03   sell direct their one of these companies that just sells direct that's why [TS]

00:19:07   they're doing the podcast at that's why they're there i'm talking to you about [TS]

00:19:10   them is there's no middle man that's where all of these savings come Casper [TS]

00:19:15   makes these things they make them right here in the USA by the way you go to the [TS]

00:19:19   website you pick what size you want you put that the talkshow code and you say [TS]

00:19:23   fifty bucks and boom next thing you know this box shows up at your house and [TS]

00:19:28   you're like I cannot believe that there's an entire queen or king-sized [TS]

00:19:31   mattress in this box you take it up to your bedroom you follow the little [TS]

00:19:34   directions very simple of how you know the right way to open a box and then Shh [TS]

00:19:38   boom of a sudden you have a brand-new very comfortable mattress right there in [TS]

00:19:44   your bedroom couldn't be easier [TS]

00:19:45   here's house here's how sure they are that you're gonna like it they have a [TS]

00:19:48   hundred knight home trial you go there you buy it [TS]

00:19:51   don't forget the code the talk show you say fifty bucks and if you don't love it [TS]

00:19:54   within a hundred [TS]

00:19:55   $OPERAND days you just call them up or go to the website they don't give you a [TS]

00:19:59   hard time they don't try to talk me out of it they just say okay and then they [TS]

00:20:01   schedule a time to come to your house and pick it up and they give you a full [TS]

00:20:05   refund [TS]

00:20:05   that's it and that it's like almost nobody does it because the mattress is [TS]

00:20:10   so good I've heard from a couple breeders somebody wrote to me once and [TS]

00:20:13   said that they did and that they were actually surprised at you know they [TS]

00:20:16   thought this was going to be a nightmare getting rid of this mattress because [TS]

00:20:18   they actually didn't like it and it was actually just as easy as I said you call [TS]

00:20:22   them up they come they get it and you get all your money back to go to Casper [TS]

00:20:25   calm / the talk show and remember that and next time in a mattress will say [TS]

00:20:31   fifty bucks anything else on the apple store [TS]

00:20:35   no I think it's gonna be interesting to see how how rapidly and how many of [TS]

00:20:40   these new five special features they roll out to other stores [TS]

00:20:43   how long does it take to happen yeah I II you know I bet fairly quickly but [TS]

00:20:47   it's you know it's certainly interesting and it certainly does answer the [TS]

00:20:51   question of what's Angela Ahrendts been up to [TS]

00:20:53   yeah she's been busy and anyone who like again anyone who students on campus [TS]

00:20:56   knows that she's been super engaging so busy since she took over just even the [TS]

00:21:00   transition from the prior to Angela errands online and retail were separate [TS]

00:21:05   operations and she's been unifying those anything that giant i'm online store [TS]

00:21:09   makeover at the end of last year we took them right from that stuff was terribly [TS]

00:21:12   outdated technology and they went like whether you like it or hate it you you [TS]

00:21:17   can't browse anymore but a technologically speaking the new apple [TS]

00:21:20   store take a flip the switch and it appeared one day which is a remarkable [TS]

00:21:23   achievement [TS]

00:21:24   yeah and you know it's it's got to be a stressful job D'Angela Lawrence because [TS]

00:21:29   and I you know famous the apple doesn't really run by profit and loss centers [TS]

00:21:33   you know there's no you know target for profit from the ipods and a target for [TS]

00:21:38   profit from Max and I mean I'm sure they have internal goals but they don't run [TS]

00:21:41   like a division like that but retail by definition i mean at the end of the day [TS]

00:21:45   you know you you know there's these fixed costs like the lease of the [TS]

00:21:49   building and all of the salaries for all of the employees and then there's how [TS]

00:21:54   much money you made by selling products and it's you know if if there is you [TS]

00:21:59   know like a decline in that it's going to you know be noticeable yeah an apple [TS]

00:22:04   again famously doesn't have presidents but if you look at the size of the apple [TS]

00:22:07   store business and you want some [TS]

00:22:09   the itunes where they need marketing between all these divisions to make [TS]

00:22:13   stuff for them it's much more than a branch like engineering or branch like [TS]

00:22:17   Silicon technologies would need yeah it's you know it's an incredible [TS]

00:22:20   operation really is i wonder how many stores they have no I forget the number [TS]

00:22:25   but they was the anniversary i think the 15th or something anniversary yesterday [TS]

00:22:28   with a time this [TS]

00:22:29   yeah so from one store to another the app store and in the news lately [TS]

00:22:37   developers something's they flip some sort of switch within the last two weeks [TS]

00:22:42   or so and review times at the App Store haven't just gotten better it's like [TS]

00:22:48   it's like overnight it went from a roughly one week review process like you [TS]

00:22:53   is version 1.2 of my appt i'm submitting it to the app store for years I mean the [TS]

00:22:59   entire life of the app store you know going back to $MONTH 2008 you could more [TS]

00:23:03   or less expect about a week before your appt if if it goes through and [TS]

00:23:08   everything is okay [TS]

00:23:10   about a week before it is you get the email that says okay you know it's ready [TS]

00:23:15   to go just hit this button and it will be live in the store and now it's it's [TS]

00:23:19   one day and at times it's within a day [TS]

00:23:22   there's a story cable sasser posted a tweet that one of the people at panic [TS]

00:23:26   published not a panic capitals private appt in a personal appt at ten-thirty in [TS]

00:23:31   the morning submitted it [TS]

00:23:33   I got a notice at three thirty in the afternoon that there was a crasher and [TS]

00:23:36   it was actually a legitimate chrysler so it was like hey thanks for finding this [TS]

00:23:39   at five thirty or so submitted a fixed version and like by like nine o'clock at [TS]

00:23:46   night it was ready to go [TS]

00:23:47   830 at night it was ready to go so within a day they submitted [TS]

00:23:51   hey guys submitted an app that found crashers resubmitted a fixed version and [TS]

00:23:55   published it to the store so something's going on [TS]

00:23:58   yeah it's super interesting to me because immediately everyone's like well [TS]

00:24:02   Phil Schiller phil schiller but you know phil has been charged with a profuse [TS]

00:24:06   since the beginning that's always been part of them of of his organization the [TS]

00:24:09   way that evangelism is needed of dr is that's always been a phil schiller thing [TS]

00:24:13   so I just wondered that now that filter has total control of the app store they [TS]

00:24:17   did there's no more you know what we put on any what we put on Phil is anybody [TS]

00:24:21   really look [TS]

00:24:21   get this its we do we need this fixed Phil you're going in there to fix that [TS]

00:24:25   it has to be fixed and that prompts a lot of action I I guess is that did what [TS]

00:24:29   do you think is going on [TS]

00:24:30   I mean I think it's a couple of things like one is you know well i'm not a [TS]

00:24:35   developer but I think we've had apps just the company i work with has had [TS]

00:24:38   apps in the App Store for a very long time and usually what i would seek some [TS]

00:24:40   on the email chain is the app gets submitted and then you don't hear [TS]

00:24:43   anything for about a week and then at the week . it says your app is now a [TS]

00:24:47   review and then usually very quickly after that is either approved or [TS]

00:24:50   rejected it [TS]

00:24:51   so the actual review processes was always very very quick it was just a [TS]

00:24:54   part getting your app into that review process that seemed to take a long time [TS]

00:24:57   and then when the google play store famously switch to reviews that that gap [TS]

00:25:02   was much less that they were doing something maybe not to the extent that [TS]

00:25:04   Apple was doing it but they were they didn't have that long gap for your app [TS]

00:25:08   we're going to review and that was really what seemed to be killer for [TS]

00:25:11   people and now that app that gap is gone and my understanding is I forget how [TS]

00:25:16   long it was maybe three or four weeks ago there was just a major reorg in that [TS]

00:25:19   organization and they they change some things that I I think needed to be [TS]

00:25:25   changing everybody involved knew that they needed to be changed talking mostly [TS]

00:25:28   like I don't name names here but people probably know who were who was involved [TS]

00:25:31   in an organization because they did get attention years ago that got moved and [TS]

00:25:36   and those people are no longer there and it seems like that that was the fix that [TS]

00:25:39   needed to be made at least is the high-level fix that need to be made to [TS]

00:25:42   get this process on track [TS]

00:25:44   yeah I wonder if the i think it was in January where they announce or maybe it [TS]

00:25:51   was december yeah it looks like it was back in December so is at the end of the [TS]

00:25:54   year and apple made an announcement where that just did they promote [TS]

00:26:00   somebody I think that somebody got promoted to be a senior vice president [TS]

00:26:04   and what's-his-name that the chip guy alternative energy [TS]

00:26:09   yeah Johnny Sergey got promoted to senior vice president and they put the [TS]

00:26:17   app store they did which used to be under any Q they moved it to fill [TS]

00:26:21   Schiller's group and uh I I can't help but think it's not i don't even think [TS]

00:26:26   it's like a film versus anything I think it's sort of a fell through the cracks [TS]

00:26:31   thing [TS]

00:26:32   because like you said app review was always part of developer relations and [TS]

00:26:39   developer relations has been under phil schiller going back to the nineties i [TS]

00:26:44   mean III as long as shoulders been there i think shoulders been in charge of all [TS]

00:26:48   you know that the not that he runs it you know he's obviously got a lot of [TS]

00:26:52   responsibilities but ultimately whoever's in charge of developer [TS]

00:26:54   relations is a direct report to Phil Schiller and I can't help but think that [TS]

00:26:59   having the app store as a everything else related to the appstore being under [TS]

00:27:06   Eddie's group and review under Phil's group it just creates a crack that I [TS]

00:27:11   think the sub optimal you know week long process which was obviously I I you know [TS]

00:27:19   the app store is a huge success for Apple let's just look at this from [TS]

00:27:23   Apple's perspective and I'm not trying to make excuses for it I'm just saying [TS]

00:27:26   it objectively just no way you could argue that the app store especially on [TS]

00:27:31   iOS is a tremendous success [TS]

00:27:33   I mean it's in my opinion literally responsible for the fact that app is now [TS]

00:27:38   word that everybody knows it is a common it's you know it's just a word that [TS]

00:27:42   everybody knows that really wasn't the case before the iphone people didn't [TS]

00:27:47   talk about apps at least outside you know our sphere and here it's a huge [TS]

00:27:54   success [TS]

00:27:55   so I think a lot of the complaints that have come inside come on what he [TS]

00:27:58   complained about this thing is awesome [TS]

00:28:00   whereas I think putting it all under fill' eliminates that crack and it is a [TS]

00:28:05   lot easier to say look there's no but we can't pass the buck here we're the group [TS]

00:28:10   in charge of this this isn't great a week-long review process is you know [TS]

00:28:14   Apple can do better than that we can't you know we Apple can't say we don't [TS]

00:28:17   have the resources to do better than this we have billions of dollars we [TS]

00:28:22   couldn't should do better [TS]

00:28:23   absolutely i'm so around that time there was a reworked in the marketing [TS]

00:28:28   organization as well and you'll fill our took full responsibility for the app [TS]

00:28:30   store but at the same time you let someone like great jobs back was also [TS]

00:28:34   phenomenal took on full product marketing responsibilities cross the [TS]

00:28:37   range of apple products like iOS devices anymore and i think that a lot of them [TS]

00:28:41   to sort of focus down on these issues and avoid anything slipping through the [TS]

00:28:45   cracks but also [TS]

00:28:46   as Apple scales socialist phenomenal lady was phenomenal at craig Venter case [TS]

00:28:51   phenomenal but the amount of product that they have to ship now is [TS]

00:28:53   exponentially bigger than what the internship several years ago and they're [TS]

00:28:56   still human beings and they can't they can't look at everything all the time so [TS]

00:29:00   having people who have that more focused responsibility i think it is really [TS]

00:29:04   great like I for a long time all I wanted from Apple was a front-facing [TS]

00:29:07   vice president of App Store and what skills surely not keep any better than [TS]

00:29:12   that world because Phyllis it's funny because you have certain personalities [TS]

00:29:16   from the Apple groups like always seems like everything's group is slightly you [TS]

00:29:19   know louder shirts and a little a little looser going and filler is like very [TS]

00:29:23   very focused and and really cares about the user experience they don't have [TS]

00:29:27   these distinct personalities but giving him the app store and letting it run and [TS]

00:29:30   I think regardless of whether the organization has always been his lesson [TS]

00:29:34   focus down on that and say hey if if I'm waking up today and I want to make apps [TS]

00:29:38   for a phenomenal product and not just for developers but for users because if [TS]

00:29:41   I there's a plugin app I don't want that plug for a weekend with that bug fixed [TS]

00:29:45   immediately and be having to wait for a developer to get a review i feel bad for [TS]

00:29:48   the developer behind my bug fix this i think there's a really big facing [TS]

00:29:52   customer issue [TS]

00:29:53   what do you think so what do you think they're doing differently i think the [TS]

00:29:58   part that I think it's just they made personnel changes that they really [TS]

00:30:00   should have made years ago I mean likely when you do we need to hear what was [TS]

00:30:03   going on behind some of this like you we see the stuff on the outside but Apple [TS]

00:30:06   people inside Apple field of stuff feel the same kind of pain we do it in AC [TS]

00:30:09   decisions that don't make any sense of reversals and things like that and just [TS]

00:30:12   it kept coming back to sort of the same group people and and rewarding that [TS]

00:30:17   seems to have taken care of that so like I don't know if there is technical [TS]

00:30:20   issues they change to but it just seems like this really coincided with [TS]

00:30:23   reorganizing out it has to be there has to be procedural differences though [TS]

00:30:28   there has to be something that they're doing procedurally that is different [TS]

00:30:32   than what they were doing before it because it's it's just even just [TS]

00:30:35   throwing more reviewers at it if it was a backlog I don't think would result in [TS]

00:30:42   same day submissions i know i just was listening to ATP this morning and I know [TS]

00:30:48   Marco had the exact same experience where it he had a same-day approval of [TS]

00:30:51   an overcast update [TS]

00:30:53   which it just had the same day is it [TS]

00:30:57   that's just not how the app store looks so something is different procedurally I [TS]

00:31:01   i think that with this reorg the reorg put people in place who were willing to [TS]

00:31:06   institute the procedural changes that we're seeing and I think one of them it [TS]

00:31:10   has to be something where where they've enabled reviewers to sort of look at the [TS]

00:31:14   history of a developer i'm just guessing this i'm just a guess but let's say okay [TS]

00:31:19   here's a nap [TS]

00:31:21   it's from Marco Arment and here's the history of submissions that he's made [TS]

00:31:27   its a look at how many do you know this is a very popular app and here's how [TS]

00:31:31   many updates he has submitted he's never liked abused the system by like i like i [TS]

00:31:38   can't help but think that if you like started submitting builds daily that if [TS]

00:31:43   you just like every single like if you started submitting like the equivalent [TS]

00:31:45   of nightly builds yes you're not going to get same-day approval I think that [TS]

00:31:49   they're going to you know i would guess look at the history and put the brakes [TS]

00:31:53   on that and say no but if your history is wow that you've never been a problem [TS]

00:31:58   you know this is obviously a legitimate app here let's just make sure that there [TS]

00:32:04   are no crashers you know it's open it up and and go through and see that [TS]

00:32:07   everything works okay there you go you're you're through [TS]

00:32:10   yeah and it's I think it's exactly that i think it's it's putting together a [TS]

00:32:14   smart system and what I liked about cables tweet 2 is that caused the crash [TS]

00:32:18   crash was fixed then the app one out so it's not just they're not just so [TS]

00:32:21   suddenly opening the gates a fine to get rid of the backlog special apps out [TS]

00:32:24   there running those instruments and they're running those tests and they're [TS]

00:32:26   finding those things and then that flags and maybe they're paying better [TS]

00:32:29   attention to say we caught this blog I all the guys resubmitted let's go [TS]

00:32:33   nothing else was wrong with it and maybe just they got rid of people whose [TS]

00:32:36   opinions were not congruent or weren't easy to work with or word holding back [TS]

00:32:41   other people because it really it if you think about it linearly should not be a [TS]

00:32:44   preview or making choices about what is and what isn't proper user experience as [TS]

00:32:48   well it's all realms of other people at Apple much better position to do that [TS]

00:32:51   before and after every hits review so it getting out getting all that out of the [TS]

00:32:54   way and putting in that system and then just applying it i think is the key to [TS]

00:32:58   seeing now [TS]

00:32:58   yeah i think so but it's very very good news [TS]

00:33:02   and I just you know it's one of those rare things that there is no downside to [TS]

00:33:07   this whatsoever there is no so whatever they're doing an apple whoever if you're [TS]

00:33:12   listening and you work in developer relations the entire world of [TS]

00:33:18   third-party developers says thank you [TS]

00:33:21   yeah I mean I absolutely had to go back to you . they got the app store is a [TS]

00:33:24   phenomenal business for apple and developers do have pain . and it's [TS]

00:33:28   really hard it's not hard but it's hard emotionally to sort out a lot of friends [TS]

00:33:32   are developers and you'll go to WWDC and see the appstore labs and a developer go [TS]

00:33:36   in there and see I made a great app you're going to feature it and they like [TS]

00:33:39   what's your marketing plan developers don't need one you going to feature it [TS]

00:33:42   right there [TS]

00:33:43   they're like well will feel even if we do feature that's one week out of 51 you [TS]

00:33:47   know what are you doing for the other 51 weeks and that's the kind of thing that [TS]

00:33:50   absolutely can't really fix they'll never be able to let the matter how good [TS]

00:33:53   your app is they'll never be able to artificially make it app especially in [TS]

00:33:57   the climate we are now but they can fix a lot of things like search searches a [TS]

00:34:01   solved problem i type in 20 baht actually get to it but it should be this [TS]

00:34:05   no discussion about that anymore google can handle that I think alta vista [TS]

00:34:08   handle that but it's still something that's not workable on the app store and [TS]

00:34:13   I don't understand the technical reasons like I understand the infrastructure [TS]

00:34:16   reasons but you know there [TS]

00:34:19   why doesn't it wasn't their metadata layer that just the intermediates that [TS]

00:34:22   stuff and then finds goes to the old-school database system pulls likely [TS]

00:34:26   results and gives me that in search widens sloppy search nearest neighbor [TS]

00:34:29   all these things these can help developers if i search for twitter i [TS]

00:34:33   should get relevant results not just a linear like in it all this has twitter [TS]

00:34:37   the name I want we bought in that in that result and that sort of thing I [TS]

00:34:41   think that affects customers and effects developers and it's something that Apple [TS]

00:34:44   Apple absolutely knows about that and they feel that pain but those are sort [TS]

00:34:48   of things that i really hope they figure that fixed sooner rather than later it [TS]

00:34:51   they yeah that it's gotta be I hope so I hope that this is a sign that makes me [TS]

00:34:55   think that i would bet on them fixing the App Store search in the near future [TS]

00:35:00   just because it seems like somebody's paying attention to these little [TS]

00:35:04   long-standing issues and that's another one that's super long standing and I've [TS]

00:35:09   made the exact same argument I don't care how hard a check [TS]

00:35:13   uncle problem it is Apple is it cannot cry poor right yes they and and it is it [TS]

00:35:20   you know however hard it is it's obviously been solved and so that you [TS]

00:35:25   know the standard is the bar is google right and I should you should not be [TS]

00:35:29   able to get better search results by typing into Google box like your example [TS]

00:35:36   tweet bot iOS you should not have ios app you should not get be more likely to [TS]

00:35:42   be led to tweet pot then if you type Tweetbot in the app store it's got to be [TS]

00:35:46   that good and it's you know it can't be as hard as web search because web [TS]

00:35:50   searches searching everything you're only searching this I don't care how [TS]

00:35:53   many at you know million apps you have your only searching your own apps i I [TS]

00:35:57   just feel like Apple got burned by the whatever original algorithm they use for [TS]

00:36:01   search where they trusted the metadata from developers and open the door to [TS]

00:36:08   being scammed that's I mean it's a huge part of the problem with the search [TS]

00:36:11   results is that you get search results that are unrelated and if you actually [TS]

00:36:15   like look at the metadata it's that they've put like in in their list of [TS]

00:36:21   keywords that you know we want to be searched by they put competing app games [TS]

00:36:24   in which is supposed to be against the rules but it obviously doesn't get flag [TS]

00:36:27   yeah I mean to go back to your to your pointer to go i i i i believe is the [TS]

00:36:32   customers job to protect me even from myself so I really a very hesitant to [TS]

00:36:36   ever play user for something and if I'm doing something wrong [TS]

00:36:39   that's fine i'm doing wrong but its toll if I'm using a company like Apple I want [TS]

00:36:42   them to do everything possible to stop me from making mistakes and I don't even [TS]

00:36:46   need keywords like that that's part of the point is bewildering to me is that [TS]

00:36:49   you just and I hate saying this because it's so easy to say how you can fix [TS]

00:36:53   these things but i'm just talking about i type in Tweetbot without and i miss [TS]

00:36:57   the eat because I'm human and make a spelling mistake and it doesn't result [TS]

00:37:00   doesn't rely on keywords at all that just you have a database of things and [TS]

00:37:03   you know how to do nearest labor and search widening and basic things that [TS]

00:37:07   search has been doing for a decade and you know what was with the most popular [TS]

00:37:11   result is that's close to that one and you provide me with that result because [TS]

00:37:14   that's that's what i want and you kind of do that extra work to give me what I [TS]

00:37:18   want and it sort of feels like iTunes which is the the overarching instructor [TS]

00:37:24   all this was built the app store is built on the itunes store [TS]

00:37:27   originally designed to handle music all of this to me is almost like apple's [TS]

00:37:31   version of windows XP where you have just a legacy product that needs to [TS]

00:37:36   serve hundreds of millions of people with an incredibly diverse range of use [TS]

00:37:41   cases like jim dalrymple wants 10 versions of every ozzy osbourne song to [TS]

00:37:45   play exactly the one he wants whenever he wants it wants it but I i just want [TS]

00:37:49   Syria to say you don't play me the smooth criminal cover-up likely and it [TS]

00:37:52   just does it and I have zero music in my library and then there's some someone [TS]

00:37:56   who just bought an ipod nano at best buy and wants to think that on their windows [TS]

00:38:00   pc using itunes over a cable and you also on top of that you have billions of [TS]

00:38:05   dollars of transactions moving through it and the person at virgin music who [TS]

00:38:10   knows how to use the crazy backend of itunes the way Bloomberg terminal person [TS]

00:38:14   knows how to use Bloomberg and they just have to upload their entire music [TS]

00:38:17   catalog for that week and they think would want anything to change because [TS]

00:38:20   they know how to do it even if it is horrible and balancing all of that it's [TS]

00:38:24   super easy on the internet to say just fix itunes and just fix this i would not [TS]

00:38:28   want that job it just sounds like again like another one was impossible jobs to [TS]

00:38:32   me but it is one of those jobs at apple has to figure out and fix because it's [TS]

00:38:35   not getting any better [TS]

00:38:36   yeah you know it's it's just the fact of human nature where were a terrible [TS]

00:38:43   dishonest species clicks collectively you can't trust metadata I mean right i [TS]

00:38:49   mean this it sounds laughable but in the old days you know in the nineties there [TS]

00:38:53   is a time or search engines you you'd put the meta tag in your HTML and be [TS]

00:38:58   like meta and here you're supposed to list like a handful of keywords that are [TS]

00:39:02   like what is this page about and search engines would take those and actually [TS]

00:39:07   like trust them and so as soon as people figured out that the search engines [TS]

00:39:11   actually trust them they would just start loading it up with anything and [TS]

00:39:15   everything to get SEO it was keywords nothing it's ridiculous and of course [TS]

00:39:21   anything that can be abused is going to be abused and unfortunately the app [TS]

00:39:25   store it can be abused and it is it's you know you see at any time you type [TS]

00:39:30   like a popular apt name and always unrelated app show up and it's like what [TS]

00:39:33   the hell is that listed [TS]

00:39:35   yeah which is what google solved for x you they originally had like Authority [TS]

00:39:40   and now I think they're judging and social shares and other things like that [TS]

00:39:44   you try to determine the authority of the result and give people the results [TS]

00:39:47   that are widely respected not just the ones that are they have no data that [TS]

00:39:50   you're looking for right like that it's the actual actions of users that Google [TS]

00:39:55   trust including things like being able to see like okay you search for x y&z [TS]

00:40:01   and we made this the second result but you clicked it that's the one you click [TS]

00:40:07   and then I search for x y&z and it's the second result but it's the one I clicked [TS]

00:40:11   because I realized that what I want and they're like what that must be a good [TS]

00:40:14   result for x y&z maybe we should make that the top result for x y&z because [TS]

00:40:17   all these people are clicking you know they do things like that that's that [TS]

00:40:20   can't be cheated i guess you could try to cheat by having you know bots [TS]

00:40:25   clicking or whatever but google you know fights against it anyway at it needs to [TS]

00:40:29   be the app store needs to be as good as google search . yes for just wraps right [TS]

00:40:34   yeah they get but it's again like I don't know if you caught me search for [TS]

00:40:39   email but I was trying to search for email this morning to find something I [TS]

00:40:42   knew was there and it was inside the email app it's a nightmare and but you [TS]

00:40:46   gotta spotlight works fucking know whatever whatever they're doing it this [TS]

00:40:50   way there just has to be a better way of doing it and I know they walk this back [TS]

00:40:54   they're going to have this process because you're super concerned about [TS]

00:40:56   privacy where they would surface apps online for you if you are looking for [TS]

00:41:00   them but they they they know who has what app installed so if if the twitter [TS]

00:41:04   app is installed in everyone's life when you give me that first but if Tweetbot [TS]

00:41:07   is on is the second-most install twitter app in the iOS ecosystem show me that [TS]

00:41:11   second because likely i'm really happy with it let me take another break here [TS]

00:41:16   and thank our next sponsor it is our good friends at warby parker warby [TS]

00:41:21   parker makes buying glasses online easy and risk-free go to warby parker calm / [TS]

00:41:26   the talk show and order your FREE Home try on today I've got worried Parker's [TS]

00:41:33   I've got their great glasses that it could not be an easier way to shop for [TS]

00:41:38   glasses you go to the website and you start picking out the ones you want you [TS]

00:41:43   can pick up to five of them and if you only find like three you can disorder 3 [TS]

00:41:46   and they'll throw and they'll just take a guess and just [TS]

00:41:49   go into exercise then like two days later you get a box in the mail and it [TS]

00:41:53   has five tryon versions of these of the classes that you picked the five that [TS]

00:41:57   you picked you know we're just regular you know non-prescription lenses you go [TS]

00:42:01   you try mon you ask you know ask ask the people you do you live with your friends [TS]

00:42:05   UD like these do not like these you look in the mirror you find the ones you like [TS]

00:42:09   you send them all back and they already have a sticker you just put the sticker [TS]

00:42:13   on the same box it just goes right back to worry Parker with these trial ones [TS]

00:42:16   and then a week later so the ones that you picked come with your prescription [TS]

00:42:22   and that's it and it's so much cheaper than buying in like an eyeglass boutique [TS]

00:42:27   i think it starts at just 95 fox and they don't they don't upsell you on [TS]

00:42:33   coatings for the lenses you want coatings you want anti-glare you wanted [TS]

00:42:37   a nice line ever you just get the nice lenses with an anti-glare coating that's [TS]

00:42:40   just the default they have a titanium collection [TS]

00:42:44   these are like the metal ones that starts at just a hundred and forty five [TS]

00:42:47   dollars and that includes prescription lenses and that's with premium Japanese [TS]

00:42:51   titanium and French non rocking screws even pay attention to the little details [TS]

00:42:56   like putting nice cruise in there they also offer and it's that time of the [TS]

00:43:00   year where the sun's gettin out they offer prescription and non-prescription [TS]

00:43:04   sunglasses so even if you have twenty-twenty vision there's something [TS]

00:43:07   for you or be Parker you can get really good really cool sunglasses even if you [TS]

00:43:12   don't need prescription so you get good lenses anti-glare all of that you get [TS]

00:43:18   really cool-looking frames you get to try them on at home [TS]

00:43:21   nothing could be better it's really really great and if you even if you have [TS]

00:43:25   a strong prescription like I do I very strong prescription they offer uh [TS]

00:43:28   ultra-thin high index lenses so that you don't you're the actual lenses aren't [TS]

00:43:33   think back in the old days if you had a strong prescription the stronger [TS]

00:43:36   prescription the thicker lenses were that you got that when they come [TS]

00:43:39   coke-bottle glasses you don't get that warby parker they have high index that [TS]

00:43:43   means that they can do a strong prescription in a very thin lines I [TS]

00:43:47   could not be happier as a customer of warby parker they are just great [TS]

00:43:52   so go to war be part if you need glasses of any kind just go to Warby Parker . [TS]

00:43:55   com / the talk show and you'll get a free home try-on [TS]

00:44:00   and free shipping both ways and no obligation to buy so if you don't want [TS]

00:44:03   to buy you get five min don't like it no obligation [TS]

00:44:06   so once again warby parker calm / the talk show and I thank them for [TS]

00:44:10   sponsoring the talk show [TS]

00:44:13   uh what else is going on there's Google i/o yep i watched the keynote and for [TS]

00:44:24   the first time ever I really thought that Google did a good job i was the [TS]

00:44:30   first time I thought wow that was a really good keynote but I had I had [TS]

00:44:35   mixed feelings on like I thought some of the techniques I thought some of the [TS]

00:44:37   technologies were more impressive than the way that they were presented I could [TS]

00:44:43   see that and I do think that their their culture [TS]

00:44:47   I you know and again months away most companies work apple is the exception [TS]

00:44:50   where Apple tends to have fewer people on stage on Apple's pacing in a keynote [TS]

00:44:56   is always better than everybody else's and for someone like me who's default [TS]

00:45:01   keynote two watches an apple keynote it makes everybody else's seem a little [TS]

00:45:04   like come on tighten this up even a time it takes even the time it takes to pass [TS]

00:45:11   off to the next presenter it is longer in a google keynote than apple keynote [TS]

00:45:17   well tangentially like we do this thing's pretty Caldwell adjacent cell [TS]

00:45:20   and sometimes I help out where we transcribe CEO Tim Cook historically his [TS]

00:45:26   comments and i had to do that for [TS]

00:45:28   we have a site now Tesla central for elon musk's last conference call and it [TS]

00:45:32   was so difficult because Tim Cook is such a clean speaker and even must every [TS]

00:45:37   second word was like and and he would interrupt himself through half of you [TS]

00:45:40   half way through every sentence and it was incredibly hard to transcribe them [TS]

00:45:44   and it made me really appreciate this [TS]

00:45:46   how well apples like just not not just what they say but how polished they all [TS]

00:45:51   our speakers [TS]

00:45:52   yeah because ultimately in a transcription like that you're not doing [TS]

00:45:55   like a legal transcription where you're documenting every single word out of the [TS]

00:46:00   mouth you really want to get like a [TS]

00:46:02   here's what he meant to say transcription not that you want to put [TS]

00:46:05   words in his mouth but if he's you know adds an extra like or numb or something [TS]

00:46:09   like that you don't want that in the transcription what you're doing is [TS]

00:46:11   trying to make a transcription that's easier for your readers to learn what he [TS]

00:46:15   had to say like an idealized version of that what he said exactly exactly that's [TS]

00:46:19   the right way to do it and he had it's like with Tim Cook it's a lot closer to [TS]

00:46:24   the idealized version right out of his mouth [TS]

00:46:26   yeah and the same thing like so I i watch them it was super interesting they [TS]

00:46:30   have you chat apps and I'm i just don't need new chat apps i have so many of [TS]

00:46:33   them already so it would have been nice if those were sort of expansion of [TS]

00:46:37   existing services i understand this but they did this one duo which is just real [TS]

00:46:41   time it's like facetime but the minute the call comes in it's already streaming [TS]

00:46:44   live video and to me I just know I'm going to get people sending me junk like [TS]

00:46:48   they did their job specifically right away and you'll be no way to appoint I [TS]

00:46:51   don't think I don't know that's not gonna work on iOS though it won't but I [TS]

00:46:55   mean just the idea that like the idea of giving someone a direct like bacon they [TS]

00:46:59   can just pop up in your eyeballs to me as a recipe for disaster because he was [TS]

00:47:02   like you said before he was cannot be trusted this technology well let's go [TS]

00:47:05   through the stuff in order will start with the google home now this leak the [TS]

00:47:10   night before but it's not a surprise it is and it was nice sundar Pichai [TS]

00:47:14   actually called out [TS]

00:47:16   amazon inside amazon's been doing good work in this area it which is sort of a [TS]

00:47:22   tacit acknowledgement that this is a direct competitor it's not like a [TS]

00:47:27   tangential competitor it is absolutely a dead-on direct competitor to the Amazon [TS]

00:47:32   echo and that the court you know that the family of devices that amazon has [TS]

00:47:37   developed around it it is 8 so Google home is a little siracusa calls it a [TS]

00:47:43   weeble wobble remember the Weeble wobbles [TS]

00:47:45   yeah it looks to me like an air freshener the Weeble in her wobble but [TS]

00:47:48   they won't fall they don't fall down [TS]

00:47:51   ah so it's a little speaker pretty small surprisingly small could I thought when [TS]

00:47:56   they first showed the product shots i thought it was going to be more like [TS]

00:47:59   echo sized echo height and it's a lot smaller than the echo so you plug it in [TS]

00:48:04   it is and always listening speaker and you say like hey google to it and you [TS]

00:48:11   can start calm you know [TS]

00:48:14   a voice driven this just in conversation with it [TS]

00:48:18   yeah it was interesting to meet a couple vectors first amazon amazon has been [TS]

00:48:21   given a huge amount of credit for the Amazon echo and for alexa but what [TS]

00:48:26   always strikes me is that it is the US only product and i believe still [TS]

00:48:29   unilingual product and it's impressive what they do with it but the solution [TS]

00:48:33   set that they have to offer is so incredibly small compared to what Apple [TS]

00:48:37   or Google or offering with multilingual support and for example with the apple [TS]

00:48:41   TV series not only does multilingual support but they can do multiple [TS]

00:48:45   languages within the same query like I can I speak French too so i can in [TS]

00:48:49   French ask for an english movie title and that is an incredibly hard problem [TS]

00:48:52   to solve that Apple is solving and as far as i know Alexa is nowhere near so [TS]

00:48:56   yeah Alexis handles like sandals American English queries really really [TS]

00:49:00   well but I think it's impossible this point to not realize that just how far [TS]

00:49:04   ahead google really is and that sort of Technology and I'm hopeful that by [TS]

00:49:08   introducing this it won't it'll be an english-only American product that will [TS]

00:49:12   be something that becomes competitive internationally [TS]

00:49:16   I you know is google home us all right i think it might be starting that way I [TS]

00:49:22   want the whole thing was kind of weird to me because they interpret I I think [TS]

00:49:26   he was the one giving the the home pitch at least in the beginning was he started [TS]

00:49:30   off basically saying how wonderful it was that Google understood context and [TS]

00:49:34   he basically described the sequential inference engine that Siri launched with [TS]

00:49:38   like you you could do the kind of like that's what I meant by the presentations [TS]

00:49:41   was impressive technology the things that he that he said Google home could [TS]

00:49:45   do the things that serious done for years and things that Apple TV launched [TS]

00:49:49   with months ago and I i believe i firmly believe this technology is beyond what [TS]

00:49:54   Apple's doing with Syria right now but he didn't show me that he made it sound [TS]

00:49:58   like Google was invented the very basics of voice assistance and i will say and I [TS]

00:50:05   spoke about this last week on my show I guess it was two weeks ago but the last [TS]

00:50:10   episode with ben thompson who Ben Thompson is a bit is more of a bowl on [TS]

00:50:14   the echo and I know Marco Arment is too [TS]

00:50:19   and i think the difference i'm not i just got 1a few weeks ago at the because [TS]

00:50:23   those guys were saying how good it was and I really really do think that this [TS]

00:50:27   voice driven assistant thing is in the coming decade going to be it's like the [TS]

00:50:32   new touch [TS]

00:50:32   not that it's going to replace touch but it we're on the cusp of getting this to [TS]

00:50:36   be really useful and therefore it's it's definitely going to happen and so I'm [TS]

00:50:41   really want to stay up to date with what everybody's doing and it's easier for me [TS]

00:50:45   to do it cuz i'm in the US and I speak english so i can use the Amazons product [TS]

00:50:49   i think that those two are much happier with the echo than I am because they [TS]

00:50:56   have a lot of smart home stuff in their houses that that hook up to the echo and [TS]

00:51:01   i don't i don't have any smart light bulbs or anything like that and so [TS]

00:51:06   therefore what the echo does for me is almost nothing [TS]

00:51:09   it's you know i can get the weather and even that even with the weather it's [TS]

00:51:13   like a lot of times I just want to know the temperature because I can see [TS]

00:51:16   outside whether it's raining or not but I gets in our kitchen and we have you [TS]

00:51:20   know a window like like humans do so I could see what if it's sunny or overcast [TS]

00:51:25   rainy i just want to know how if I need a jacket and if I ask Alexa for the [TS]

00:51:31   temperature she gives me the whole weather including the temperature but [TS]

00:51:35   the temperature doesn't come until like halfway through the weather report and [TS]

00:51:38   all I you know it [TS]

00:51:39   yes sirree is better at stuff like that like you can ask Siri for the weather [TS]

00:51:45   and you get a whole weather forecast but if you just ask for the temperature [TS]

00:51:48   outside she'll just tell you the temperature and I've had to be more [TS]

00:51:51   useful there's there's several things I hear that at least for me or are really [TS]

00:51:56   interesting that Amazon again that product is stuck in your house and I [TS]

00:51:59   have Siri on my wrist to have it in my pocket I have it on my lap with my ipad [TS]

00:52:03   and maybe soon with the mac and i also that's why Siri goes with me everywhere [TS]

00:52:07   and that means that everything that i have connected to series with me [TS]

00:52:10   everywhere and i do have a lot of the connector technology in my house like I [TS]

00:52:13   have a lot of the few lightbulbs for example but also LED panels that i use [TS]

00:52:18   for video podcasting are connected to an ihome plug because you know there's no [TS]

00:52:21   Hugh lightbulb giant LED panels but because I named them correctly if I say [TS]

00:52:25   turn on my studio lights it knows that the plug is called the light too so it [TS]

00:52:29   just turns it on and something every light is on there and I say make the [TS]

00:52:32   lights purple [TS]

00:52:33   it does all those things and its way money like what are you using to drive [TS]

00:52:36   that sirree yes sirree does all that for me and how did you connect that to Siri [TS]

00:52:41   so it's eerie works through home kits or anything that's home kiddo where we'll [TS]

00:52:44   just we'll work with a series of commands with Syria has triggers and it [TS]

00:52:48   has rooms and it has advanced and has all sorts of really really fun a really [TS]

00:52:52   powerful stuff that you can use it already [TS]

00:52:54   I so I don't this is something I need to catch up on but I how do you configure [TS]

00:53:00   cell phone home kit is their home kidnap I don't even know so there's the [TS]

00:53:04   internally there's a home is a home out they haven't yet the rumor is you know [TS]

00:53:07   every year they say they're going to ship it and the rumors will ship this [TS]

00:53:09   year but you can configure it in any home kiddo we're out that i bought a [TS]

00:53:13   ten-dollar up off the app store called home that's really good that just shows [TS]

00:53:15   me every room in the house and every device that's connected to an every [TS]

00:53:18   state of it i can make quick changes and it very quickly so you is because I [TS]

00:53:21   honestly didn't wouldn't even know where to start like if a whole bunch of home [TS]

00:53:25   kit stuff showed up at my house and I plugged it in and I don't even know [TS]

00:53:28   where to start on that in that iOS you're saying you just you gotta get a [TS]

00:53:32   nap and so you got an app called home and home is a third-party app that you [TS]

00:53:35   pay ten bucks for and it uses apples home kit api's that they've been talking [TS]

00:53:40   about for a while to to allow you to just set this stuff up and use the [TS]

00:53:46   camera to scan the barcode on devices set up for you give it a name you sign [TS]

00:53:49   into a room you can have multiple houses set up at you you can to iCloud you can [TS]

00:53:54   control things remotely so that i'm not at home i can still use Siri on my phone [TS]

00:53:57   for example to control thought the lights in the house it works really [TS]

00:54:00   really well and because it's not for me i was that has big problems and that is [TS]

00:54:04   again they're us focus but it's very including that one could ever have a [TS]

00:54:08   presence in China because they have their own retailers i have their own [TS]

00:54:11   survey and I want a product that if I'm in Europe you know still works great for [TS]

00:54:14   me and if I'm traveling on business to orphan child I speak very bad manners by [TS]

00:54:19   speak a little bit mandarin and Syria supports that sporty brew it does all [TS]

00:54:22   these things to me that makes it much it has the potential to be a much greater [TS]

00:54:26   solution and I think so does google now than anything amazon is fielding Marco [TS]

00:54:31   described who are not google alexa that the as a sort of like a voice driven [TS]

00:54:36   command-line mean yes that it's in the same way that a command line at the [TS]

00:54:41   terminal you have to put the [TS]

00:54:44   the arguments in the exact right order it is rigid like that the command line [TS]

00:54:48   is not plain English you know you don't just type show me a list of the files in [TS]

00:54:54   this folder you have to type LS and if you type LS / r dash a you get all of [TS]

00:55:00   them and you know the arguments have to be the exact right way and then once you [TS]

00:55:04   learn those arguments to alexa in the right order to put them it is very very [TS]

00:55:09   reliable and it's you know it's all you know nearing a hundred percent accuracy [TS]

00:55:13   that that the voice recognition will recognize it will quickly parse it and [TS]

00:55:19   will quickly get the result back in the cloud but that's exactly why I think I [TS]

00:55:24   now i'm not going to say a dead end because they can obviously scrap it and [TS]

00:55:27   replace it with a new engine at some point but i just feel though that that [TS]

00:55:30   rigidity that's what Marco like that's what Ben Thompson likes about it that [TS]

00:55:34   it's dependable because you can learn it but I also feel like ultimately its [TS]

00:55:38   limiting because there's gonna be so many things we want to use these things [TS]

00:55:41   for and I I don't know I i know a lot of people out there every time I mention [TS]

00:55:47   that Syria is actually gotten a lot better and it's is noticeably improved [TS]

00:55:51   to me in every way both in terms of the speed like when i justjust want to and I [TS]

00:55:56   know attributing at all to Siri is is not quite right because like if I'm just [TS]

00:56:01   in my message and and I want i'm walking on the sidewalk so I want to dictate a [TS]

00:56:06   text message that's not really serie it's just the voice recognition but it [TS]

00:56:11   does go round trip to the cloud and it is so much faster than it used to be [TS]

00:56:15   it's really even local on the latest iPhones if you can connect it will still [TS]

00:56:18   watch dictation locally right we'll do some of it locally [TS]

00:56:20   I'm it's gotten so much better it's super useful to me but I actually do use [TS]

00:56:25   Siri quite a bit and there's so many things that Siri can do and and that if [TS]

00:56:30   i just take a guess whether you know that seems like something serious could [TS]

00:56:33   do i'm often right and one of them example is that Siri now knows the point [TS]

00:56:38   spreads for like NFL games NBA games so like if you will I wanted to know what [TS]

00:56:46   the . spread was for the second Golden State Warriors Oklahoma City game [TS]

00:56:50   because I wanted to see if it went up because everybody was expecting golden [TS]

00:56:54   state to win because they lost game one [TS]

00:56:56   and Cirie instantly knew the point spread and I thought wonderful extra can [TS]

00:57:00   do that [TS]

00:57:00   no no no chance this it's it's I used to be all the time to let go if i'm driving [TS]

00:57:05   i'll just use Siri and have an idea for an article just tell her to take a note [TS]

00:57:08   and it comes out well enough that I can quickly put an article together but [TS]

00:57:11   beyond that what i really like about it is it does do that sequential inference [TS]

00:57:15   so if I say turn on my studio lights it turns on the lights just in the studio [TS]

00:57:18   and I say makeup purple it knows that I'm still talking about the light so it [TS]

00:57:21   makes the lights purple if I say make them white it'll say I can't make them [TS]

00:57:25   white but i can turn them into sunlight and to me that that's kind of tedious [TS]

00:57:28   because like just understand that I need to have any way to do it don't give me [TS]

00:57:31   the back chat but at least he's smart enough to not do what I was complaining [TS]

00:57:34   about before that is to widen its search and figure out what i want and do that [TS]

00:57:38   even if it's not exactly what I was not doing exactly what I asked for [TS]

00:57:41   yeah so one of the things that Google home does that seems really interesting [TS]

00:57:47   is it integrates with chromecast's that you might have in your house and there [TS]

00:57:54   is an interesting demo in in the demo video they had were the there's a little [TS]

00:57:58   boy asking something some kind of question about space or something like [TS]

00:58:02   that and then he just said put it on the TV and it put whatever he was searching [TS]

00:58:07   for on the TV now some of that is a bit of a cheap because the TV you know at [TS]

00:58:14   least my TV but you you would actually have to already have picked the [TS]

00:58:18   chromecast is the hdmi input in the TV would have to already be on but still [TS]

00:58:23   that's pretty that's a pretty cool trick it [TS]

00:58:26   yeah there's a lot of things in there that seemed almost cause I magical and I [TS]

00:58:31   one of the big things especially the Amazon echo is the API access and you've [TS]

00:58:35   probably heard the same as I am that these rumors of Serie A p is for years [TS]

00:58:37   but out right now Apple has not shipped in a app Siri API so third-party [TS]

00:58:41   software and services are beyond homepage can't access it and that does [TS]

00:58:46   women what it can do but i'm wondering when we eventually do get that new apple [TS]

00:58:50   remote app will have sort of built the ability to control certain apple TV [TS]

00:58:54   through our iPhone because Apple is very good at sort of leveraging all the [TS]

00:58:57   technologies with things like continuity and hand off that will will get sort of [TS]

00:59:01   those abilities and maybe Google is using the same thing that you'll see [TS]

00:59:04   remote doesn't it turns it on that the hdmi throughput tells TV and everything [TS]

00:59:08   else to go to the right place and if you have things [TS]

00:59:10   back right setup it all works a little bit of credits that is as far as i know [TS]

00:59:13   it's not shipping for months though so it's still a preview never know how much [TS]

00:59:16   of a preview will actually be finished and ready enough to launch the product [TS]

00:59:20   was out the door yet nothing I don't think anything that they announced in [TS]

00:59:23   the keynote yesterday is shipping it even the software like Android and still [TS]

00:59:27   in beta and the device is quote later this fall or something like that even [TS]

00:59:34   the the chat apps are such i think they said summer or something like that [TS]

00:59:40   i do question big picture I mean I well do you think so now of the three have [TS]

00:59:47   Amazon Apple and Google now two of the three have announced this echo like [TS]

00:59:52   standalone voice assistant device and no screen just speaker you talk to it and [TS]

00:59:57   get audio out of it [TS]

00:59:58   device do you think Apple [TS]

00:59:58   device do you think Apple [TS]

01:00:00   would ship a product like that i mean like the rumors of them doing that for a [TS]

01:00:04   while and it was all mixed into I think the apple TV is was a really complicated [TS]

01:00:07   project they weren't many many directions with it you know that are [TS]

01:00:10   different than what they ultimately ship but there was this idea that it would be [TS]

01:00:13   the central home hub and with service wasn't nexus for controlling everything [TS]

01:00:17   within your house and ultimately didn't go that way but there's a lot of choices [TS]

01:00:20   that apple would have to make to make that product look at the apple TV they [TS]

01:00:24   very clearly said that you have to hold down this button when you talk to Siri [TS]

01:00:28   and that's fine when you're just sitting there in front of your TV with remote [TS]

01:00:30   but if you want a ubiquitous device that that's like echo or that's like the [TS]

01:00:34   Google home device you have to eliminate that you have to just let people talk to [TS]

01:00:38   it which means you have to have a live mic in the living room almost like [TS]

01:00:41   Microsoft did that with kinect as well [TS]

01:00:43   an apple is the company has to be willing to say we're going to put a live [TS]

01:00:45   mic in your living room and this is very counter to what they've done with their [TS]

01:00:49   products previously yeah i don't know i don't think Apple would do this and I'm [TS]

01:00:55   I i think that these voice driven assistants are absolutely positively [TS]

01:00:59   going to be there already useful but they're going to be way you know in 10 [TS]

01:01:03   years so now we're going to look back and say how do we how do we get by [TS]

01:01:06   without him I'm not sure that this standalone speaker microphone of devices [TS]

01:01:11   the form factor to do it because it doesn't seem to scale and I know people [TS]

01:01:16   ask i don't know i know some people were asking like what do you know what if you [TS]

01:01:20   have multiple of these google home devices you know one on each floor did [TS]

01:01:24   they work together and the answer is not yet [TS]

01:01:26   like I'm not quite sure that that's the answer to how you have this everywhere [TS]

01:01:31   you want it is by setting up these speaker devices that you know I almost [TS]

01:01:36   feel like the speaker devices should be dumb terminals not yes central hub [TS]

01:01:40   yeah I mean to have the speaker and say play the meeting i'm going to play this [TS]

01:01:44   song right now and then it comes out and it sounds good and it's there to help [TS]

01:01:47   listen but i don't think i think it should just be like a dumb terminal it [TS]

01:01:51   shouldn't really be the hub [TS]

01:01:52   yeah i went to a demo at nuance 60 in terms of the actual opposite of that is [TS]

01:01:57   going to add anything you want as a hell of a press event and I want to look at [TS]

01:02:00   it and they were showing their version of this and it was a couple years ago [TS]

01:02:03   but they wanted to make sure that if you were talking you know your kid couldn't [TS]

01:02:06   interrupt you so you could snap your fingers twice and you have a camera [TS]

01:02:10   three microphones beam for monument as you walked around it would stay locked [TS]

01:02:13   to you so you could talk and nobody else would get me crosstalking on that and it [TS]

01:02:17   seems like the most overwrought of all these possible solutions but then the [TS]

01:02:21   other day I was raising my arm to just stretch and I wanted to talk to i want [TS]

01:02:25   to ask Siri something so I said you know Cirie and because i was moving my arm my [TS]

01:02:28   Apple watch activated because i had an iphone with me the iphone activated by I [TS]

01:02:32   9.7 inch iPad pro activated because the 12-inch was plugged in that activated as [TS]

01:02:37   well so I had lie i just said to turn on the lights and in all these 45 water [TS]

01:02:41   says we were said yes yes all at once the lights just went on so I don't know [TS]

01:02:44   which one was ultimately responsible for it but it means like there's just so [TS]

01:02:47   much potential for collision and and sort of figuring out what is the [TS]

01:02:51   behavior like how do you know which device is closest to me and you know [TS]

01:02:53   which one I'm talking to you because maybe my watch is closer but I didn't [TS]

01:02:56   move it so series not listening and maybe buy my iphone is across the room [TS]

01:03:01   in my mac is in my lap but i really am talking to my iphone and solving those [TS]

01:03:04   are interesting problems [TS]

01:03:06   yeah i would say it's exactly the point I was going to make is that ok i don't [TS]

01:03:09   think that this echo like speaker thing is the ultimate solution to this to the [TS]

01:03:15   what is the device you by to have this interaction with the voice assistant but [TS]

01:03:19   conversely i don't know that Apple's you know like let's just have hay and then [TS]

01:03:24   the name of the yeah I don't want to have to be put out hast you know [TS]

01:03:29   no sirree hey you know I I think I don't think that's the answer either to have [TS]

01:03:36   it on all of your devices because I've had the situation to where you try it [TS]

01:03:40   and multiple devices are plugged in and they all answer or you know the iphone [TS]

01:03:43   doesn't have to be plugged in anymore [TS]

01:03:45   yeah so I don't know what the answer is I you know it's but it's definitely [TS]

01:03:50   coming and I thought that some of the stuff that that they showed in that the [TS]

01:03:54   google home is really impressive but then some of it too is also it's it's so [TS]

01:04:01   hand-wavy it's like a serious it's like you know like I could see like the the [TS]

01:04:07   mom in the video she heard she got a notice that our flight was delayed by [TS]

01:04:11   half an hour [TS]

01:04:12   and it's like you know what number one nobody ever your flight is never delayed [TS]

01:04:15   by half an hour [TS]

01:04:16   like if it's half an hour delayed that you just bored late they don't give you [TS]

01:04:20   a warning if your flights donate it's like ours but i think they wanted to [TS]

01:04:24   make it like a nice happy story so its value flights delayed by half an hour [TS]

01:04:28   and so she said move my dinner reservation from 730 28 and it worked [TS]

01:04:33   and I could see that working because it's surely through opentable and I [TS]

01:04:37   think open tables ATP is would would allow that to work but there are there [TS]

01:04:42   other things that that they did that it just seemed like come on that's that's [TS]

01:04:46   too easy [TS]

01:04:47   I you know I i absolutely agree and one of the things about this technology is [TS]

01:04:52   it really is a parallel interface like we will still have our tactical [TS]

01:04:54   interfaces the natural language voice so powerful that will have these running in [TS]

01:04:58   parallel and we won't really see it we've taken years to evolve just a lot [TS]

01:05:03   of the basic things we now take for granted on the old mouse interfaces and [TS]

01:05:06   now on and on the two gesture-based interfaces and it'll take some time to [TS]

01:05:09   sort of one of the things I worry about is immediately like I forget it was this [TS]

01:05:12   demo or the other demo we're just said you know buy movie tickets and I'm [TS]

01:05:16   petrified this ever since the iMessage changes I'm yesterday I shared my [TS]

01:05:19   location with somebody by accident because it was instant and it wasn't it [TS]

01:05:23   wasn't a person that was a problem for but location is highly sensitive [TS]

01:05:25   information to be hitting that by accident and not having sort of a [TS]

01:05:29   confirm deny requests in between that was hugely problematic for me and the [TS]

01:05:32   same idea with you like just get movie tickets just make a reservation and I [TS]

01:05:35   can go back and say oh no don't make them but just did it we don't seem to [TS]

01:05:38   have all the steps that we have on our traditional interfaces get established [TS]

01:05:41   for this [TS]

01:05:42   yeah I know siracusa called out the get indian food and it was like yeah it'll [TS]

01:05:49   be at your house and it's like no but no confirmation is that what you're [TS]

01:05:52   ordering or what restaurant it's just ok there will be indian food in a bag on [TS]

01:05:58   your porch by the time you get home and it's like come on and it is the back [TS]

01:06:03   yeah it's one of those things it's really hard to do by voice and it would [TS]

01:06:06   have to it would necessarily require a lot of back-and-forth right over it it [TS]

01:06:11   should more or less be the same amount of back and forth that you would have if [TS]

01:06:15   you actually called the restaurant and talk to a person you can have a standing [TS]

01:06:19   like you could have gone to the trouble of presetting like this is my span order [TS]

01:06:22   if I don't see anything else is the auto but that's a lot of faffing work they [TS]

01:06:25   show off in the beginning and otherwise exactly to your point that there are [TS]

01:06:28   some times when it's faster just topic but because your brain is reading all [TS]

01:06:31   the information on the screen and can react to it you know with fingers and [TS]

01:06:34   taps faster than it could you have a long involved conversation with [TS]

01:06:37   something [TS]

01:06:37   yeah soldier i think i'm gonna buy one of these but I don't know that i'm going [TS]

01:06:42   to leave it on you know I don't know I've still got the echo downstairs but [TS]

01:06:46   there is you know i might as well mention it i mean because in light of [TS]

01:06:50   the you know I i just don't see how you can avoid the privacy implications to [TS]

01:06:56   this I'm and even above and beyond the do you trust amazon with it always on [TS]

01:07:02   microphone in your kitchen do you trust Google with this and you know the answer [TS]

01:07:06   obviously for many many people is yes you know and his google learning [TS]

01:07:10   anything more about you than it already knows if you're heavy [TS]

01:07:13   you know Google services user on but just think about it from like a law [TS]

01:07:17   enforcement angle this is life is a dream from the FBI was locking ourselves [TS]

01:07:22   right like because imagine if you're under investigation and FBI goes to [TS]

01:07:27   google with a warrant and says you know we're investigating this individual rene [TS]

01:07:32   ritchie I does he does he have a google home and if Google is legally compelled [TS]

01:07:39   to say yes then they can issue a warrant that says well we we would like to have [TS]

01:07:43   that microphone recording everything that you know please send us the 24-hour [TS]

01:07:48   mp3 file of everything that gets said every day in this house like that is [TS]

01:07:54   something that they could compel google to do [TS]

01:07:57   it's funny one of my favorite you know it's it's a result phenomenal because we [TS]

01:08:02   collect the Librium and they have christian bale in it and he's a graviton [TS]

01:08:05   cleric and they want to kill him at the end they say what's the easiest way to [TS]

01:08:08   get your weapon away from you [TS]

01:08:10   he says what he says to ask you for it and it's true with passwords any law [TS]

01:08:14   enforcement will tell you that often the easiest way to get somebody just asked [TS]

01:08:16   because we're happy to do a lot of things to ourselves just out of [TS]

01:08:19   convenience with no sense of security and that was one of the more troubling [TS]

01:08:22   aspects of the google i/o to me is that a lot of the things that they're doing [TS]

01:08:26   requires me to remove encryption in order to have it done what they showed [TS]

01:08:29   off their and i know we'll get to it later but they showed off their chat app [TS]

01:08:32   and they have an incognito mode and only when you go into incognito mode doesn't [TS]

01:08:35   have aunt and encryption and [TS]

01:08:37   that's because they want to do a lot of machine learning bots you know inside [TS]

01:08:40   that but that's me is done I i if I'm talking to you John and then I want to [TS]

01:08:44   ask about something I still I still want that part i want my communication with [TS]

01:08:48   you to B&N encrypted then if I address the bottom turn off the encryptions I go [TS]

01:08:52   back to talking to you turn it back on again and for the very reasons you [TS]

01:08:56   mentioned that i have a personal belief that our phones are are like hard drives [TS]

01:09:00   for our brains and that they should be covered with a privilege that is beyond [TS]

01:09:03   what spouses or priests or doctors or anybody enjoys in the lobby should just [TS]

01:09:07   be almost in violet and that their data should not be accessible to law [TS]

01:09:10   enforcement but we don't live in that world and and and the world were living [TS]

01:09:13   and now we are giving away and leaking so much data that all of these products [TS]

01:09:17   are huge concern I yeah I you know it's I I think that it's not going to keep [TS]

01:09:24   people from using it and there's also been questions you know is now that our [TS]

01:09:28   phones can listen to us is as law enforcement ever tried to compel Apple [TS]

01:09:33   or somebody else to turn your iphone into a bug [TS]

01:09:38   I don't think that's ever happened and i'm not you know but it's obviously a [TS]

01:09:42   concern now that we have these devices that are literally always listening to [TS]

01:09:46   us i mean if you see there Edward Snowden her documentary [TS]

01:09:49   no I haven't seen it it's great there's a scene in the very beginning and [TS]

01:09:52   they're filming him and its actual film of him doing the first interviews that [TS]

01:09:56   led to the articles i believe in The Guardian and right away there's an IP [TS]

01:10:00   phone on the table and he unplugs it takes it apart and they're saying why [TS]

01:10:03   are you doing that he said it has a speaker and they said it's not on he [TS]

01:10:06   goes what do you mean it's not on right i just sit on the opposite ends of these [TS]

01:10:09   things and he would put his blanket over his head and his password because they [TS]

01:10:12   were cameras outside the windows and he's like you don't understand the [TS]

01:10:16   degree to which we are doing surveillance on you that's creepy [TS]

01:10:20   what's the name of the documentary citizen for citizen 5s something like [TS]

01:10:25   that i haven't seen I don't I can't really say why because it's something [TS]

01:10:29   I'm interested in and I love good documentary but it's terrific and I know [TS]

01:10:34   that there's the feature film is coming out soon with ya [TS]

01:10:36   edward norton right is an Edward Albert implant I'm a dead ringer Reese yeah and [TS]

01:10:43   all these things go through your mind that you and apples taking great pains [TS]

01:10:45   to take care of securing their building systems that they they themselves cannot [TS]

01:10:50   get it [TS]

01:10:50   two and that's the thing is that you might trust Google with your data but [TS]

01:10:54   once someone else has your data I can take responsibility for losing my own [TS]

01:10:58   data but when somebody else has it [TS]

01:11:00   I even if they don't do anything bad with the employees at that company or or [TS]

01:11:03   that company gets exploited or some place that they're using to store data [TS]

01:11:08   gets broken into this did it creates this disability for that information to [TS]

01:11:11   get even further out it's just one step removed it's one step less safe and that [TS]

01:11:16   those are really we don't think about it because convenience is such a good [TS]

01:11:19   selling point but eat this is super valuable things that's most valuable [TS]

01:11:23   thing that we have is our information and and and I really worried about a lot [TS]

01:11:26   of these products and what they'll turn us into yeah so the next thing they did [TS]

01:11:29   announce when you mention it it's their new chat app it's you know effectively [TS]

01:11:33   it's like they're what Google has had a lot of chat apps over the years so [TS]

01:11:38   they're starting over with a new one it's called a low a alll oh thanks for [TS]

01:11:45   hello [TS]

01:11:46   I get a obviously hello [TS]

01:11:49   not a bad name i like it but they've wiped the slate clean this is not google [TS]

01:11:54   hangouts this is a new thing it's a chat app so it's sort of a cross between I [TS]

01:11:59   message and like whatsapp or something like that and it's not spaces we [TS]

01:12:03   introduced I think three days before this one which also has chat features [TS]

01:12:06   yeah that's it curious that they had that they release spaces before this and [TS]

01:12:11   then didn't talk about spaces in the keynote at all I haven't really looked [TS]

01:12:15   closely its paces yet but I've heard from a couple people that I should [TS]

01:12:18   because it looks like a really you know seems like a really useful thing I just [TS]

01:12:21   have so much fatigued it's like the virtual real estate is free so people [TS]

01:12:25   can build as many things as they want but it's almost like if you if you have [TS]

01:12:27   a garden and you're tending it and somebody gives you another garden and [TS]

01:12:30   got a 10 that in another garden and then another garden and you start forgetting [TS]

01:12:33   about the first one and it feels that way with all these programs like I still [TS]

01:12:36   have people contacting me on hangouts no google wave anymore thankfully but you [TS]

01:12:41   know there was google buzz and this google spaces and they just and people [TS]

01:12:45   have expectations once you use that if they send you a whatsapp message or a [TS]

01:12:48   snapchat that you're gonna get back to them and there's just more and more [TS]

01:12:51   proliferation of all these services and it doesn't like it's slowing down and [TS]

01:12:54   just demands on our attention ridiculous [TS]

01:12:56   yeah and it's not doing anything coherent with you and I understand it [TS]

01:13:00   easier for them to launch two separate service but it's going back to work talk [TS]

01:13:03   about with apple [TS]

01:13:04   it's not their job to do things that are easy for them is their job to do things [TS]

01:13:07   that are better for me and my world maybe baring it all in black would be [TS]

01:13:10   the best thing but you know Google could make a product that is coherent than [TS]

01:13:13   that produces these features and gets rid of one that they'll find this [TS]

01:13:16   valuable anymore that would be better for me as a customer [TS]

01:13:20   the thing about aloe is the privacy thing that you said so there's two modes [TS]

01:13:26   in a low and the default mode includes like that did the you know what's new is [TS]

01:13:31   that includes Googlebot interaction and so you can like at Google and you know [TS]

01:13:37   in the middle of your chat and get answers to questions that you could ask [TS]

01:13:41   Google i can imagine that being useful but it seems weird that it's the default [TS]

01:13:47   and then they call the other mode incognito mode which to me is very [TS]

01:13:53   problematic I I really really don't like using that and I know that the term [TS]

01:13:58   comes from chrome where that's what they called the private mode for your tabs [TS]

01:14:04   and I guess they're you know if you want to be aa give them the benefit of the [TS]

01:14:12   doubt that's why they chose the word incognito but to me that calling [TS]

01:14:17   incognito it puts a slightly negative connotation on it that it's you know [TS]

01:14:22   that it did that's something that you use for something that you want to keep [TS]

01:14:26   secret or something where you want to be anonymous you want to hide and it's it's [TS]

01:14:31   sort of carries like a negative like a negative connotation to me [TS]

01:14:35   whereas the word private which is what I think they should call it and i think it [TS]

01:14:39   should be the default is well of course you want privacy [TS]

01:14:42   yeah you know who doesn't want privacy and you know as as Christopher I'm going [TS]

01:14:47   to watch his last name sorts or your hands to do you pronounce his name not [TS]

01:14:51   sure you know who he is now he's a privacy advocate and he's yes super good [TS]

01:14:58   follow i'll put his twitter in the show notes [TS]

01:15:02   thank you but as he described it yesterday it the default mode of a low [TS]

01:15:09   which is encrypted but it's not end-to-end encrypted so the privacy mode [TS]

01:15:14   and the way like iMessage works [TS]

01:15:16   I think the way what's app works is end-to-end encrypted so if i send a [TS]

01:15:19   message on my message to you it is encrypted leaving my phone and it isn't [TS]

01:15:25   decrypted until it gets to your phone and in between like when it's in Apple's [TS]

01:15:32   hands it is in an encrypted state that they can read that's end-to-end [TS]

01:15:36   encryption apples really only there to facilitate the one you know connecting [TS]

01:15:40   your Apple ID to your phone [TS]

01:15:44   it's just a route and its end-to-end encrypted that's you know the term is [TS]

01:15:48   exactly what it sounds like we're at the day makes it impervious to person to [TS]

01:15:51   person in the middle attacks with you an important thing right [TS]

01:15:54   so if somebody you know hacks my or star fuck you know if i'm in starbucks and [TS]

01:15:59   i'm using the Wi-Fi and somebody else you know as you know is reading all the [TS]

01:16:03   stuff that goes through the Wi-Fi router all they see is the encrypted version of [TS]

01:16:08   the message the default mode for a low that includes the Googlebot by [TS]

01:16:14   definition in order to have this interaction with the Googlebot it is [TS]

01:16:17   over https but it's encrypted from you to Google server then google sees what [TS]

01:16:24   you type and then Google encrypts it to send it on to you [TS]

01:16:28   that's like exactly how the FBI want all of these services that's exactly what [TS]

01:16:33   the FBI has been pushing for in this entire argument and maybe you know not [TS]

01:16:39   just the FBI here in the US but law enforcement you know like minded law [TS]

01:16:42   enforcement in Europe and elsewhere and I'm certainly that the Chinese certain [TS]

01:16:46   that the Chinese government would like to be messaging services work like that [TS]

01:16:50   too because if it's only secure over-the-air from me to google and then [TS]

01:16:57   it's unencrypted on google site then then if Google is served a warrant to [TS]

01:17:01   say let us see these messages were really it was really you know we're [TS]

01:17:05   conducting an investigation between john gruber and a rich either running a some [TS]

01:17:10   kind of scam we need to see their messages they sit there they are right [TS]

01:17:15   maybe I understand why google's doing it in the because it'd be better if they're [TS]

01:17:20   all about machine learning in the more data you feed that the better it is and [TS]

01:17:23   they're getting access to add to what we're typing how are typing it when [TS]

01:17:26   we're typing it at all those discussions it really made fee [TS]

01:17:29   an enormous scale it feeds their machine learning and artificial intelligence [TS]

01:17:33   projects but yeah they're giving me a free service in exchange and convenience [TS]

01:17:37   is always at war with security but to your point that what Google wants here [TS]

01:17:41   happens to be what everybody else wants and you could make a case that who will [TS]

01:17:45   protect it but google is bound by bylaws and we don't know what those laws are [TS]

01:17:48   going to be yet but also google is subject to abuse and we saw with the NSA [TS]

01:17:51   then they started having access to this day they didn't just use it for [TS]

01:17:54   legitimate and noble government purposes but they used to keep track of my [TS]

01:17:57   ex-girlfriends and spy on people to do things and that you can say that won't [TS]

01:18:01   happen but the best way for that not to happen is what Apple's doing with they [TS]

01:18:04   themselves do not have access to it [TS]

01:18:06   yeah that's it's exactly right and i know for a fact that I message was [TS]

01:18:12   architected with that in mind it was you know the the high-level top one of the [TS]

01:18:18   top bullet items was we need to design this system from the ground up so that [TS]

01:18:22   we can't we cannot see these messages even if compelled to do so by a warrant [TS]

01:18:27   and facetime to which is why it's allowed to be using the medical injury [TS]

01:18:30   because end-to-end encrypted and there's there's no chance for someone to [TS]

01:18:32   intercept of the and have private data we may be doing this with all their [TS]

01:18:36   services systematically yeah so I really I IE I there's no other way for Google [TS]

01:18:44   to do this with the bot I don't think unless you know where I guess there is [TS]

01:18:47   are there are other ways where it would have to be like you said like where [TS]

01:18:50   everything I typed us to land and encrypted yeah the only the at Google [TS]

01:18:54   once are not and I really feel like that they should and it doesn't seem like [TS]

01:18:59   they're doing it i think that they should use do something visual like you [TS]

01:19:03   know the way that I message does green bubbles for SMS and blue bubbles for I [TS]

01:19:08   messages they should do something to make clear what what is and an encrypted [TS]

01:19:13   and what is not and I really added later dropped the ball [TS]

01:19:17   by doing this the the way that they're doing it and then it sort of deliberate [TS]

01:19:20   but I really do feel like it's it's a problem I mean it's a service that I [TS]

01:19:25   wouldn't you know I wouldn't want to rely on and to your point I mean using [TS]

01:19:29   the term being on the incognito it it's baffling to me because they're using [TS]

01:19:32   your phone number is unique identifier and that means that your definition that [TS]

01:19:36   you're not a common yeah I'm messaging you incognito mode we still know who [TS]

01:19:40   each other are there's no identity question [TS]

01:19:42   right it's it's not incognito it's really a problematic use of the word i [TS]

01:19:45   really do think so because it's not the same as chrome chrome when you go into [TS]

01:19:48   incognito mode you really are anonymous release you know if it works the way [TS]

01:19:52   it's designed I don't know and obviously that could be a bug well even there like [TS]

01:19:55   it stops your history and it stops the cookies but unless you're using some [TS]

01:19:59   form of a tractor and all those things blockers it's not stopping the web for [TS]

01:20:03   monitoring your progress in general you have to go incognito and block [TS]

01:20:05   everything else [TS]

01:20:06   yeah and it doesn't you know it doesn't route you through some kind of an [TS]

01:20:10   anonymizing service either your IP address still just your IP address you [TS]

01:20:13   know but it is cut off from their regular cookie stashin and etc music [TS]

01:20:17   history then next the the sibling oh by the way we should say that Apple [TS]

01:20:22   actually I think that's called his privacy board in case the one who [TS]

01:20:25   started yes there is stuff are you mean yes [TS]

01:20:28   yeah I get its new private window [TS]

01:20:31   yeah but again it's if it did the their use of incognito and aloe is really not [TS]

01:20:37   that it's not that similar to to chrome and like you said your stolen you know [TS]

01:20:41   still your phone number and it's yep it you know guys I say thumbs down thumbs [TS]

01:20:47   down on the architectural design of a low or at least the the default should [TS]

01:20:52   be flipped in my opinion the default should be what they call private mode [TS]

01:20:55   and then you should be able to turn on you know having give me some help from [TS]

01:21:00   google bot mode and then there should be a very very clear visual indication that [TS]

01:21:04   you're no longer private yeah the whole the whole like again like I said that [TS]

01:21:09   the technology was impressive but the presentations i think that the dude did [TS]

01:21:12   not do the many services it's unclear to me like you and I are chatting on I [TS]

01:21:16   message and I'm researching a squatting reminds me almost of those really really [TS]

01:21:19   early adventure games where you're standing on the edge of the forest and [TS]

01:21:22   River one side and you type and pick up the sword and it does that it's just [TS]

01:21:26   it's not always an optical or we replace that those aren't our games running [TS]

01:21:29   where we replaced that with easier for more direct want to make relation and [TS]

01:21:33   it's not clear to me exactly what you'd like you said or or Syracuse's said [TS]

01:21:37   about the car is not clear to me how efficient this one communication will be [TS]

01:21:40   there will be specific cases where it's very useful but do I want my entire chat [TS]

01:21:44   experience assumed with these little use cases that I'm I might not ever make put [TS]

01:21:48   to use [TS]

01:21:50   yeah so the sibling app to a low is [TS]

01:21:53   duo and it is you know I think it's very fair to say it's their answer to [TS]

01:21:57   facetime it is a live video chat I don't know if I there might be an audio mode [TS]

01:22:04   I I mean it doesn't demo as well but you know live video is a companion to a low [TS]

01:22:10   so i'm guessing it still uses your phone number is identifier it is going to be [TS]

01:22:14   cross-platform and iOS and Android and like you said earlier you hinted at it [TS]

01:22:20   they have a feature they call knock-knock preview which me a set if I [TS]

01:22:23   call you it will start the video on me and the notification that you get you [TS]

01:22:31   know when it rings or whatever you know says you know when i'm i'm not knocking [TS]

01:22:35   you it'll already be show you where i am who i am and what I'm doing it you'll [TS]

01:22:41   already have the video to look at I don't know how who thought this was a [TS]

01:22:45   great like I understand they use like get someone's kids as a demo but I don't [TS]

01:22:48   know who decided that they had anybody has the right to put like video on my [TS]

01:22:51   home screen without my consent or my locks without my consent it's you [TS]

01:22:54   we know people it's not commanded up well for us well yeah right like if I [TS]

01:23:01   know you're having a meeting not like my phone rings all of a sudden it's every [TS]

01:23:07   guy English on my home screen right it's not going to work well it's an [TS]

01:23:11   interesting demo and like you said it may not be may not be a good feature and [TS]

01:23:15   and on iOS I don't it's a 99.999 percent certain there's no way that's gonna work [TS]

01:23:21   because there's no there you know that's something that's only going to be on [TS]

01:23:24   Android yeah well you have to have the Apple than sitting there waiting for the [TS]

01:23:27   person to call which . kind of defeats the purpose right if you're already in [TS]

01:23:31   the app they could do it but otherwise there's you know it's just going to be a [TS]

01:23:33   standard notification again another separate application [TS]

01:23:39   yeah well I kind of you know it's the same reason that face x a separate [TS]

01:23:43   application application it it is but apple doesn't have you know facetime [TS]

01:23:47   plus an app like hang out at all he does very similar things to this I mean it's [TS]

01:23:51   just it's layer upon layer of google communication at this point [TS]

01:23:54   yeah i think it's interesting to me that they're doing it and I wonder you know [TS]

01:23:59   they didn't but unlike with amazon in the echo or they they called it out they [TS]

01:24:03   didn't mention apple and facetime but it's especially with the duo and [TS]

01:24:06   I think it's you know it's fair to say that aloe is as much a competitor to [TS]

01:24:10   whatsapp and line and all the other you know there's so many messaging apps that [TS]

01:24:15   are out there [TS]

01:24:17   you can't just say it's a direct answer to I message and I message is a little [TS]

01:24:20   different message doesn't have stickers and it's really more about replacing SMS [TS]

01:24:24   text messaging a but with duo it's impossible not to talk to talk about [TS]

01:24:30   this and not mention facetime and it looks like space line space is great [TS]

01:24:34   just looks like this time [TS]

01:24:35   yeah and I just think that they're answering for android users need that [TS]

01:24:39   you know that this is that's like a cool thing that iphone users have been using [TS]

01:24:44   for years and you know there hasn't been a good answer for android users and now [TS]

01:24:50   there will be in it it's it's confusing because facetime you mean with the [TS]

01:24:55   stories well known steve jobs announced I was going to be an open standard and [TS]

01:24:58   much to the surprise of the engineering sitting in the audience at the time and [TS]

01:25:01   then Apple got sued by root of x and basically the interior architect the [TS]

01:25:05   entire system based on you know [TS]

01:25:07   rocketalk at Texas patent law and i believe they gone to court three times [TS]

01:25:11   i'm not sure what the status is now but it it really hamstrung the roadmap for [TS]

01:25:15   facetime it gets years later we have facetime audio now but we don't have [TS]

01:25:18   facetime conference calls and it's a whole sort of really obvious features [TS]

01:25:21   that Apple just being sued to oblivion by these companies not been able to roll [TS]

01:25:25   out and the the technology behind do was super interesting to me and they're [TS]

01:25:30   using WebRTC I think that's what they're doing in the way that they're [TS]

01:25:33   implementing it really really interesting but it's a little need to [TS]

01:25:37   evolve to and skype has got all these features and hangout says conference [TS]

01:25:41   calls and i'm not sure what the exact difference is why they don't get sued [TS]

01:25:44   the way that Apple has but it it really does sort of open up that that sort of [TS]

01:25:48   cross-platform dynamic that you want from services like these [TS]

01:25:53   yeah definitely so be interesting to see what kind of uptake it gets I kind of [TS]

01:25:59   salute them i feel like these are focused apps and that point is very [TS]

01:26:03   clear and it's you know sort of the opposite of what was that that that [TS]

01:26:09   thing that google built a couple years ago and it eventually disappear but it [TS]

01:26:12   was like a wave [TS]

01:26:14   yeah that's a google wave yeah right it's the opposite of wave it's the [TS]

01:26:18   antithesis where wave was so [TS]

01:26:19   nebulous and so grandiose in its ambitions that it they lost the point of [TS]

01:26:26   hey I'm looking at this thing and I just don't get it [TS]

01:26:29   I mean it's like wiki chapters strange it was super ambitious but it really was [TS]

01:26:34   not a good product [TS]

01:26:35   I mean it was a fascinating like research endeavor but as just nowhere [TS]

01:26:40   near as cohesive as a product needs to be whereas these new apps are so [TS]

01:26:44   super-focused ok it's it's you know it's messaging [TS]

01:26:48   oh and it's you know video you know like FaceTime yeah you almost like unit [TS]

01:26:54   asker's and your Apple again seems they never put facetime on Android people [TS]

01:26:59   still want my message on Android and you know Apple historically has not been [TS]

01:27:02   great services and not been created cross-platform apps so wanting those two [TS]

01:27:06   things together is a curious choice you know when you hear people complain about [TS]

01:27:09   it at google has been really good about putting apps in iOS and his profound [TS]

01:27:13   business reasons for why they do that but their apps have not been great on [TS]

01:27:17   iOS do from the design where they insist on making them very android like you [TS]

01:27:22   know Roboto and with a lot of this and the hamburger buttons to the performance [TS]

01:27:25   of like hangouts has gotten better but hanging out with a dumpster fire for [TS]

01:27:29   many for far too long so eight having the stripped-down apps could mean that [TS]

01:27:34   they're actually decent apps on iOS and then you saw you solve that [TS]

01:27:38   cross-platform problem [TS]

01:27:39   yeah we'll have to see but again later this summer not not available now know [TS]

01:27:44   what else we have here we got then Android n they now get going to let the [TS]

01:27:50   internet name it i think that was the channel [TS]

01:27:52   yeah that seems weird i don't know what that I don't know that's it seems pretty [TS]

01:27:59   stupid to me i'm guessing that they already have a name and that they're [TS]

01:28:02   just saying that they're letting the internet named it the teller or not a [TS]

01:28:07   big Gators nutella though it's a it's a trademark and there's no use cat became [TS]

01:28:12   the license agreement [TS]

01:28:13   well maybe a so maybe that's what they'll do maybe they'll you know pay [TS]

01:28:17   pay the Nutella peanut nutella people are just going to get you screw it let's [TS]

01:28:22   do it i'm trying to think what it from the android and I have my notes here I'd [TS]

01:28:28   the one thing that was interesting to me the most interesting thing that [TS]

01:28:32   he showed were these i forgot to call it but it's like instant app some yeah [TS]

01:28:37   we're actually streaming apps [TS]

01:28:39   yeah and that that if you architect your android app the way that you know it's [TS]

01:28:45   this is a new a new thing but if you architect you you can divide your appt [TS]

01:28:51   up into slices and you know more or less component-wise your app it can load just [TS]

01:28:57   the component that it needs to do something and will more or less loaded [TS]

01:29:02   like a webpage so it'll just load right over the air and just need all of a [TS]

01:29:07   sudden you're in the app but it hasn't downloaded the entire app it's just a [TS]

01:29:12   you know the piece that it needs to do a thing so maybe like if you're open table [TS]

01:29:17   i forget what demos they use but if you're open table it could just show you [TS]

01:29:22   the screen that you use to make a reservation and you pick a time and then [TS]

01:29:26   you're in you know you're in with the reservation and then if you want the [TS]

01:29:30   rest of the app you can say give me the rest of the app and it'll download the [TS]

01:29:33   whole thing yet it it's really amazing to me because a lot of us have been [TS]

01:29:37   there where we want to wear out we're traveling maybe we're roaming we have a [TS]

01:29:41   poor connection we want to do something but we just don't happen to have the app [TS]

01:29:44   installed and go to the App Store and it's you know you have one bar and [TS]

01:29:47   trying to download it you just watch anything try to turn it just wish you [TS]

01:29:50   had that app installed you remember to do at the hotel on Wi-Fi and it's so it [TS]

01:29:54   is an absolute problem but to me the bigger picture that here is that we've [TS]

01:29:57   been seeing for a while and you've been talking about for a long time how it [TS]

01:30:00   used to be websites and then just things started happening over HTTP and it [TS]

01:30:03   became web services new AP is and endpoints and maybe they would show up [TS]

01:30:07   on the web but maybe they show up on apps or maybe they would surface and [TS]

01:30:10   some other type of client and it really really change the fundamental meeting of [TS]

01:30:14   what it meant to be a web service and now that's been happening with apps we [TS]

01:30:18   saw with extensibility on iOS were previously you had to you know take a [TS]

01:30:22   photo go out to a photo app make an edit go to another photo of making ethical [TS]

01:30:26   back to you maybe go to pinterest or to tumblr and share it and it was super [TS]

01:30:30   inconvenient but you went to all these different destination at we're now [TS]

01:30:34   thanks to extensibility you to pull out the features of a nap you don't ever [TS]

01:30:37   have I use P calc in shade now I'd never go to the pcap I is shared a social [TS]

01:30:42   networks using the share sheet i never actually launch social network [TS]

01:30:45   apps and has profound meaning to the brands of those apps because they no [TS]

01:30:49   longer control those experiences and you know maybe it'll show up on my watch on [TS]

01:30:52   my or overcast might be on my car plate dashboard and the logic and the [TS]

01:30:56   interface layers are totally decoupled and the binary has been separated out [TS]

01:31:00   into all these features and now these features are being streamed you know [TS]

01:31:04   increasing rules world's being strained back almost like like web services and [TS]

01:31:08   it makes you really question what a nap will be no nevermind five years from now [TS]

01:31:12   but two or three years from now and what that means for developers and services [TS]

01:31:16   it's fascinating to me it's a really neat trick i'm not quite sure if it's a [TS]

01:31:19   good idea or not like is it something Apple would do I don't know because [TS]

01:31:23   Apple is pretty because it doesn't even ask you if you want the app it just all [TS]

01:31:27   of a sudden you're in it like in the same way that when you tap URL it just [TS]

01:31:31   takes you to the webpage this do tap URL and it if the you know it's sort of like [TS]

01:31:36   the way that you know like with like Twitter the twitter addict can say hey I [TS]

01:31:41   own the twitter.com domain name so now let the user choose whether tapping that [TS]

01:31:46   a tweet URL takes you to the webpage or opens the twitter app right to the tweet [TS]

01:31:51   so that's what this is doing on Android except it's letting you run apps you [TS]

01:31:57   haven't even installed yet I don't think Apple would allow that even not the [TS]

01:32:00   technology behind it aside [TS]

01:32:02   I just don't think Apple would do it because they don't want to there there [TS]

01:32:06   so conservative about letting native software running on the device [TS]

01:32:10   yeah i like the Google+ almost seem like you're cashing like you're going out [TS]

01:32:14   grabbing a bit of a of a webpage treating it a bit like an absolute [TS]

01:32:17   performs better or maybe has advantages or access that a webpage wouldn't get [TS]

01:32:22   and that's true apple III one of the every year there's a technology that [TS]

01:32:26   fascinates me in WC and two years ago was extensibility and last year it was [TS]

01:32:30   all the on the app thinning stuff the app slicing and on-demand resources [TS]

01:32:34   because we were starting to see that like you don't have to download [TS]

01:32:37   everything every ipad version the interface just to get the iphone app and [TS]

01:32:41   you don't have to download the 32 bit if you're running a 64-bit device and you [TS]

01:32:45   don't have to download 10 levels of all you need is one and you start to think [TS]

01:32:49   about that like on Apple TV where if your kid is playing and you don't ever [TS]

01:32:52   want to see a dialog that says you're out of space please go to leave [TS]

01:32:55   something that's just terrible experience so it's [TS]

01:32:58   handling all that stuff dynamically in the background and even multitasking now [TS]

01:33:02   is just in time multitasking not the old concept of multitasking anymore and this [TS]

01:33:06   is becoming almost like a real-time world where you don't have to preload a [TS]

01:33:09   bunch of apps you can have a bunch of features and i agree with you i don't [TS]

01:33:12   think apple will do it in this way but I think extensibility and the way the [TS]

01:33:15   creative ways they've been using it and it's into its under putting a lot of [TS]

01:33:18   technologies in iOS 9 like the the the game recording for example is run [TS]

01:33:23   through an extension so the game has no idea what you're recording no access to [TS]

01:33:26   your movie executives will be split out into a separate separate screen warning [TS]

01:33:30   recording functionality [TS]

01:33:31   I think that's that that's sort of that future that we're going to we're not [TS]

01:33:34   going to be bound by these binary blobs on our screens anymore [TS]

01:33:37   there's over here i found it in my notes it's called Android instant apps [TS]

01:33:41   yep and I one of the things that interesting about me is this the big [TS]

01:33:44   picture that it is a full embrace of the native app as an important thing by [TS]

01:33:49   google who's known as a web company [TS]

01:33:52   yes um it's just to me it's a tacit acknowledgement that that native apps [TS]

01:33:58   are better than web apps because there is that this is a way that native apps [TS]

01:34:02   are getting a lot more Webbie it to put it one way where you don't get the same [TS]

01:34:07   way that you don't have to download you don't install a webpage you just go to [TS]

01:34:11   the URL and loads this is the same thing is you don't have to worry about [TS]

01:34:14   installing an app you just app URL and and a part of the app just instantly [TS]

01:34:18   loads and it's an instant you know to me it's just tacit acknowledgement that [TS]

01:34:22   native apps are superior on especially on mobile devices and I think I don't [TS]

01:34:30   they announced it but i think there was that whole thing about android apps on [TS]

01:34:32   Chrome as well and you know what does that mean because chrome to me was like [TS]

01:34:36   the most google of operating system it was a cloud-first web-centric operating [TS]

01:34:39   system but you start running android app so what does that mean about the future [TS]

01:34:42   of those clouds centric your web apps [TS]

01:34:45   yeah well I think it's maybe it's wrong to describe that is the most googly it's [TS]

01:34:49   the most Webbie it's the yes you know and there's a lot of people and for a [TS]

01:34:53   lot of years it seemed like Google as a company was sort of dominated by people [TS]

01:34:58   who have that a the web is the future you know everything's going to run in a [TS]

01:35:02   browser tab eventually mindset [TS]

01:35:05   and I think that what we're seeing is that google is that that's no longer [TS]

01:35:09   true of google here is so Chromebooks will be able to run android apps will [TS]

01:35:13   feature arrive later this year and that's me is really really interesting [TS]

01:35:17   yeah but I wonder though how how well that's gonna work you know with the [TS]

01:35:22   system and I had been awhile since I've tried an android tablet but it just [TS]

01:35:26   seems to me like so many so many android apps are meant to be run on the only [TS]

01:35:31   meant to be run on the phones [TS]

01:35:33   I mean I guess what they could do is just open like show like a phone sighs [TS]

01:35:37   slice of the Chromebook you know like just make like a little cell phone [TS]

01:35:43   dimension window [TS]

01:35:45   I don't know doesn't really have windows they just have tabs [TS]

01:35:48   yeah i mean i think the companies are trying to do stuff like this for a while [TS]

01:35:52   there was a rumor that webos was going to run on HP computers when they first [TS]

01:35:55   bought the company and I didn't really go anywhere but this is it i think again [TS]

01:35:59   to your point it's like this there's still things that native apps do that [TS]

01:36:03   that web-based technologies don't do [TS]

01:36:05   yeah well alright before we wrap up let's let me thank our third and final [TS]

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01:38:28   long-term go to wealthtrack.com / the talk show my thanks to them I anything [TS]

01:38:36   else that you notice the google i/o what I had this sort of general feeling when [TS]

01:38:41   I was watching this and I don't know if I have the same feeling in wdc that [TS]

01:38:44   we're sort of getting to this point where were we're getting most of the [TS]

01:38:48   functionality we need out of these devices and the announcements that are [TS]

01:38:50   being made are you know they're not startling technologies and even worse [TS]

01:38:54   like the first time you saw the apps for the first time you saw series with the [TS]

01:38:57   first time you saw some of the multi-touch or technologies they were [TS]

01:39:01   just so different than what we've seen before and now we're seeing things that [TS]

01:39:06   are either filling in the gaps and other vendors make that you know maybe they [TS]

01:39:09   don't have already or their things that just build on and maybe bots and machine [TS]

01:39:13   learning our are the big things now but they're sort of factory into apps that [TS]

01:39:17   we we know and use already and reminded me of the talk you had i think it was [TS]

01:39:22   last week about iphone 7 and the internet is just falling over itself [TS]

01:39:25   saying oh it's going to be boring it's gonna look the same and I wouldn't look [TS]

01:39:28   in the last three galaxy phones all [TS]

01:39:30   the same because we're getting to a point where we know how phone should [TS]

01:39:33   look if Apple wanted to they can make a triangle wouldn't be boring but would be [TS]

01:39:37   stupid to use so and so I just wonder how much of this is really gonna be [TS]

01:39:41   exciting as the very early days of the frontier days of mobile technology and [TS]

01:39:46   how much we're gonna complain about boredom really where we're getting just [TS]

01:39:49   exactly what we need now I think there's a huge chunk of the technology press and [TS]

01:39:54   I you know this not just the people who write about it but some of the [TS]

01:39:57   enthusiasts who follow this stuff who have a just a childlike attention span [TS]

01:40:05   and an es for novelty that is as bears no relation to the general public and [TS]

01:40:13   it's and they miss the forest for the trees really because it's there so much [TS]

01:40:18   that is interesting on these devices if you dig into them and get into the [TS]

01:40:22   details and so many people just want to hear just show me what it looks like and [TS]

01:40:27   let me see if it looks new or not and if it doesn't then it's boring and it's [TS]

01:40:30   just absurd and other products aren't like that this is a sign that it's and [TS]

01:40:35   of course there was in the early years that of course the iphone changed more [TS]

01:40:39   dramatically in the first five years you know when they would go from like that [TS]

01:40:43   the 3gs to the iphone four [TS]

01:40:46   I mean it was a huge really dramatic just look at the device physical change [TS]

01:40:51   went from non-retina retina the went to a flat back with the you know the [TS]

01:40:56   antenna on the outside of the side [TS]

01:40:58   well it's we're not going to see changes like that anymore because it's becoming [TS]

01:41:02   closer to you know they've gotten it down and they know what form factor [TS]

01:41:05   wants to be and just look at like the car industry like you know nobody did [TS]

01:41:10   new porsche 911 comes out and yeah but nobody who follows car says oh my god [TS]

01:41:14   it's just like last year's 911 [TS]

01:41:16   it's it's a it's ridiculous and when somebody like blackberry did the [TS]

01:41:21   blackberry passport was a big square phone and a bunch of people that all [TS]

01:41:24   blackberrys willing to take risks it looks different than nobody bought it [TS]

01:41:27   and only used it because we we we say we want these things but we don't think why [TS]

01:41:32   mcdonald's is so popular and the thing that's in Apple of course they're [TS]

01:41:36   working on phones that have a higher screen to the casing ratio and i'll ship [TS]

01:41:40   them eventually but you read some of the articles and [TS]

01:41:43   just delete the bat the bezels and double size the battery and that's why [TS]

01:41:47   would Apple has to do to be successful iphone 7 and then you open up [TS]

01:41:50   iFixit and you you show them all the technology and this phone and you're [TS]

01:41:54   like you would you want to do again [TS]

01:41:56   yeah i just cut off the bezels on the top and bottom okay but what about these [TS]

01:41:59   parts of the phone where are they gonna go like you are you chopping off all [TS]

01:42:03   that all the battery that's in there and all the sensors that are in there are [TS]

01:42:07   going to compact the down just push them and hope that they somehow fit in any [TS]

01:42:10   way they did these aren't rational well-thought-out arguments that are [TS]

01:42:13   being made this was a very emotional and very likely superficial and and I'm [TS]

01:42:18   wondering how much we're gonna have to put up with that frankly some I'm not [TS]

01:42:21   looking forward to some temper I I I don't know either and it is it if if the [TS]

01:42:28   iphone i don't want to get lost in the woods on iphone 7 speculation but if [TS]

01:42:32   it's true as widely leaked by the so far by the the things that have leaked out [TS]

01:42:37   of the supply chain that the iphone the next iphone I mean I'd you know we keep [TS]

01:42:42   calling it the seven I don't know that the get quality is from seven especially [TS]

01:42:44   if it does look so similar to the iphone 6 and success but if it does largely [TS]

01:42:49   look like the six and success it will be new because this will be the first time [TS]

01:42:54   they've stuck with the general form factor for three products you know three [TS]

01:42:59   years in a row so that is new territory but i really do think it's it over every [TS]

01:43:06   single year people die every day every year there's an S every one of the s [TS]

01:43:11   years so far people I've seen people and I you know people not trying to visit [TS]

01:43:15   not trying to be jerks not trying to be a clickbait you know just readers are [TS]

01:43:21   just people on twitter has a man i don't think that they're going to sell a lot [TS]

01:43:23   of these because it looks just like last year's but the people normal people [TS]

01:43:27   don't buy a new iphone every year I just can't repeat that enough and I'd I [TS]

01:43:31   almost think that every two years is starting to become a stretch that you [TS]

01:43:35   know people just don't buy new seven hundred dollar phones every two years [TS]

01:43:40   yeah and it's i went back and looked because i remember this this board now [TS]

01:43:45   and narrative and it was the iphone 5 and iphone 5 rebuilt the iphone from the [TS]

01:43:50   atom up it went to the bigger screen it had the chamfered au Apple didn't have [TS]

01:43:54   to spend an awful lot of money basically rebuilding that entire phone people [TS]

01:43:57   no it's still around Rhett yeah you ask for a ratio yeah boring around director [TS]

01:44:02   I was I don't care about LTI don't care about the camera don't care about the [TS]

01:44:04   screen being sixteen by nine I don't care about the chamfered edges still [TS]

01:44:07   around direct sale [TS]

01:44:09   I've heard this from so many people at Apple it's absolutely institutionalized [TS]

01:44:13   in the company's thinking is that they just do they there don't do new just for [TS]

01:44:19   the sake of new the only reason they changed something is if they're [TS]

01:44:22   convinced that it's better and that's why things like the macbook / powerbook [TS]

01:44:30   form factor has been so incredibly stable since the titanium powerbook [TS]

01:44:34   which was like what like 2001 or something [TS]

01:44:37   I mean it's you know it's very close to like the 911 porsche 911 of of Apple is [TS]

01:44:44   the what is a pro laptop look like I mean and you can pay if you took the [TS]

01:44:51   titanium original you know which is the first one went in this direction and [TS]

01:44:54   compared it to today's macbook pro you're gonna be blown away by how thin [TS]

01:44:59   and light that macbook pro is and how much how much better the unibody casing [TS]

01:45:05   is then the titanium one in particular where the seems really kind of you know [TS]

01:45:09   with wear-and-tear started to fall apart [TS]

01:45:12   it's better in so many ways but year-over-year there was never like a [TS]

01:45:17   radical Wow they've totally changed the way the macbook air power book looks and [TS]

01:45:22   reimagine reporters going of another clamshell boring right exactly its [TS]

01:45:26   people are two you know they're just this very childish that desire for [TS]

01:45:30   radical new form factors it because it's just not unless you can do better [TS]

01:45:35   yeah there's so many features that are better that are actually where the event [TS]

01:45:39   of our time and attention it reminds me a bit of the smart battery case to block [TS]

01:45:43   all from last December where people reviewed it and they didn't ask any [TS]

01:45:47   questions they just do things like oh this this is the capacity as listed like [TS]

01:45:51   we found out the capacitance battery and based on the price that other people [TS]

01:45:55   charge for their batteries this is expensive or all we think it looks like [TS]

01:45:59   because it has a hump I always always and nobody asked that I asked [TS]

01:46:03   immediately because the design was really different is why did you do this [TS]

01:46:06   and they were happy to answer and i'm assuming that answer you know any [TS]

01:46:09   d on those questions and it turns out that you know it it does things like not [TS]

01:46:12   making you keep your phone think it's plugged into the wall so it doesn't turn [TS]

01:46:16   on all the networking features that it does when it believes it has unlimited [TS]

01:46:19   power and it carefully goes around the antenna so that they don't get blocked [TS]

01:46:23   the antennas are blocked everything fires up and have to use a lot more [TS]

01:46:26   power to make that connection which defeats the purpose of having a battery [TS]

01:46:29   case and they put the word smart in the name but so much of the coverage was so [TS]

01:46:34   incredibly superficial that you really embarrassed me as someone who works in [TS]

01:46:39   the industry and I just I worry that we're getting more and more that [TS]

01:46:41   direction [TS]

01:46:42   I've seen people with those out and about 2 i've seen a fair you know [TS]

01:46:46   because it's a fairly distinctive design and you can see if somebody's walking [TS]

01:46:50   into using their phone on the sidewalk it's you know the back of the phone [TS]

01:46:53   that's actually what you see and so I've definitely seen enough of them is it i'm [TS]

01:46:57   on campus mean they really like them the pd and these are not people who will [TS]

01:47:00   suffer for technology lightly I'm still so I'm so surprised that they're only [TS]

01:47:04   available in black and white [TS]

01:47:05   yeah like I I kind of wondered at the origin you know like hey they're getting [TS]

01:47:09   close to the holidays you know I think it came out in November so I thought [TS]

01:47:12   maybe that's why it's just black and white because they do you know wanted to [TS]

01:47:16   make just you know two very you know different you know to match the front [TS]

01:47:20   face of your phone if you have a you know gold iPhone or a silver one you get [TS]

01:47:24   the white case if you want black and get black and that I I just kind of thought [TS]

01:47:28   that like sort of like with the watch bands that they you know maybe in a [TS]

01:47:32   couple months that be more colors I'm sort of surprised that different filters [TS]

01:47:35   black-and-white yeah I thought that too about the smart keyboards for the ipads [TS]

01:47:39   that you know the charcoal is fine but I thought that it would be at least one or [TS]

01:47:42   two other options by now [TS]

01:47:43   yeah i thought so too its bills are apparently incredibly hard to make [TS]

01:47:47   hmm i did i widen storages yeah all right back to I oh yes sorry for the [TS]

01:47:55   tension be speaking of new phones that they didn't announce any new phones [TS]

01:47:58   there was no word of a nexus new Nexus phone and one of the reasons i'm curious [TS]

01:48:04   about that is that they announced all these other things that were coming [TS]

01:48:07   later this year in a good call home [TS]

01:48:10   so even if the reason that they didn't do the new Nexus phone is that it's not [TS]

01:48:13   ready yet well that doesn't seem to have stopped them from announcing all these [TS]

01:48:16   other things that aren't ready [TS]

01:48:17   you know why not just announced the phone that's coming in the fall so yeah [TS]

01:48:22   curious if whether they're giving up on the Nexus phone thing now [TS]

01:48:25   well there was that rumor they're gonna switch for making Nexus phones to make [TS]

01:48:28   anything project silver or something which is going to be different and [TS]

01:48:31   there's all these rumors that you know google one day like there's rumors that [TS]

01:48:33   Microsoft make a surface phone there's rumors that google will make a pixel [TS]

01:48:36   phone because your nexus ones to now to to date have not been manufactured by [TS]

01:48:40   google they're manufactured by HTC or samsung or I think was LG and the most [TS]

01:48:44   recent want to think is well away and that's a very different thing is you're [TS]

01:48:48   working with a partner and they're directing it a lot but you know they're [TS]

01:48:50   working at the Times schedule the original equipment manufacturer so maybe [TS]

01:48:54   whoever is making next Nexus doesn't have anything to show yet [TS]

01:48:57   yeah I don't know it's interesting to me one of the other things that I thought [TS]

01:49:03   was pretty interesting too is that the android instant apps feature which is [TS]

01:49:09   you know really you know very impressive demo but it's going when it ships it's [TS]

01:49:14   going to should work back to android kitkat which is a what they are now [TS]

01:49:19   marshmallow l33 versions ago and it to me goes to show how what's most [TS]

01:49:30   important in android at least from Google's perspective and if you're a [TS]

01:49:33   google customer a google user is the the Android Play run what's called the [TS]

01:49:41   Google Play google play the google play runtime because Google can keep that up [TS]

01:49:48   to date and ship a change like supporting these instant apps and not [TS]

01:49:53   have to go through the phone carriers that's just the thing that updates [TS]

01:49:56   through the google play app you know just like your apps so in the same way [TS]

01:50:00   that you get app updates on Android without going through the carrier [TS]

01:50:04   process the google play updates the same way and so a lot of the Hat you know [TS]

01:50:14   sixty percent of all android users are using a two-year old version of Android [TS]

01:50:20   sort of shading Freud that that that iOS users look upon you know Android as [TS]

01:50:26   being inferior in that way it's really sort of than not [TS]

01:50:30   not that important because the parts that do get updated is a lot of the user [TS]

01:50:34   facing parts [TS]

01:50:35   yeah I think that's a lot of true that I mean there there are situations where [TS]

01:50:39   things like stage fright happen where their inability to get carrier [TS]

01:50:42   manufacturers to push out updates in a timely fashion is is absolutely a user [TS]

01:50:46   facing issues because your phone is just no one really has exploited it but think [TS]

01:50:49   of those phones are open for exploit that's not a good thing whereas apple [TS]

01:50:52   can push out security updates to every phone going back to rite 2011 all the [TS]

01:50:56   same day everyday everywhere super impressive but it to me the interesting [TS]

01:50:59   thing is that we sort of went from these models or Apple was very much a boutique [TS]

01:51:03   everything was completely locked down very very curated and very limited and [TS]

01:51:08   google was a bizarre like it was open air market you could sell it do anything [TS]

01:51:11   you wanted analysis you slowly as Apple's beginning opener with the [TS]

01:51:15   technology is google has had to bring things into things like app review and [TS]

01:51:18   do things like takeaway services from and the android open source project and [TS]

01:51:22   put them where they make more attractive version of them available through google [TS]

01:51:26   service that google play services that they control so apples have to relax a [TS]

01:51:30   little bit and Google's have to tighten up a little bit and we're getting sort [TS]

01:51:33   of a much better experience in the middle from both of them know there was [TS]

01:51:38   theirs they announced android wear too . oh yeah that didn't nothing really [TS]

01:51:43   grabbed me in there and it's in and they added a keyboard which I ex I'm sorry [TS]

01:51:51   whoever I'm stealing this from but somebody on Twitter last night quipped [TS]

01:51:53   that they still have a hard time entering their pin code on an Apple [TS]

01:51:59   watch you know with just a justice 0 then the hind keyboard [TS]

01:52:03   I don't don't have a lot of faith in a full qwerty keyboard on it device the [TS]

01:52:08   size they say Google's pitches that it's it you know you'd you're supposed to use [TS]

01:52:14   it with the slide typing and that their machine language will the machine [TS]

01:52:18   learning will will you know be accurate but even during the demo they they [TS]

01:52:22   counted wrong [TS]

01:52:23   yeah yeah yeah i mean like the the iphone is not as easy to type on is the [TS]

01:52:28   mac but we use it for things that are brief and important that we don't want [TS]

01:52:32   to have to go back to our math for and the Apple watch significantly it's [TS]

01:52:36   potentially harder to you interact with that an iphone but you're supposed to [TS]

01:52:41   use it again for briefer and even more important things you don't [TS]

01:52:44   pull your iphone out for and it's just not clear to me and we're still really [TS]

01:52:47   early days when we haven't had a decade of phones and tablets that you know an [TS]

01:52:51   addictive watches like we had phones and tablets that what that interaction model [TS]

01:52:55   should be but android wear too . it doesn't look like it it moves the needle [TS]

01:52:57   any directions masculine yeah and with this keyboard i like I'm not going to [TS]

01:53:01   you know it's a cardinal rule the account not going to say it's a bad idea [TS]

01:53:04   without having used it because who knows i could be surprised but I would [TS]

01:53:07   certainly wager that it's a terrible idea but you're not gonna be writing [TS]

01:53:11   during fire lord's life I wouldn't write anything i'm convinced that one thing [TS]

01:53:15   that's true is for wearables the only way to get text input is to dictate it [TS]

01:53:21   the only good way I just cannot believe that a crack full qwerty keyboard on a [TS]

01:53:26   watch even if watches you know a big watch its there's no way you'd like the [TS]

01:53:32   holographic 20 * keyboard that makes the full-size that were floating above your [TS]

01:53:35   wrists that you can type on I i was trying to keep track i think every [TS]

01:53:38   single person who came onstage at the event had a google and android wear [TS]

01:53:43   watch on you have to be watched while John is just part of the job [TS]

01:53:47   well i'm guessing that since Apple watches come out that there hasn't been [TS]

01:53:51   a speaker an apple event who's not wearing an Apple watch either [TS]

01:53:54   I mean it's but it's to me it's sort of I don't know there's something about [TS]

01:53:58   that rubs me the wrong way about yeah well in on both companies [TS]

01:54:02   yeah I think I don't know if we talked about on the show previously we were [TS]

01:54:06   talking about you are you going to have to be Carlos oil because if you're able [TS]

01:54:09   to apple that love their Porsches and therefore Ari's and are they going to [TS]

01:54:12   have to leave those at home and drive like a little smart car around and how [TS]

01:54:16   happy baby with that you know you got to do it in public the way they're not [TS]

01:54:19   wearing their Omegas are panaracer Rolexes right now but they were in Apple [TS]

01:54:22   watches in public [TS]

01:54:23   yeah I don't know well thats its did [TS]

01:54:29   it's a damn good question i don't know turn that Ferrari around sir go back at [TS]

01:54:35   your Apple car that you can park here [TS]

01:54:37   the last thing I have from my notes was they call it i don't know if it was the [TS]

01:54:42   whole thing but I think it's the daydream which is there [TS]

01:54:46   yeah mobile vr on android phones and there's an API said that developers can [TS]

01:54:52   start writing your own stuff and Google didn't announce any sort of [TS]

01:54:57   where they're actually going to sell but they've made a quote-unquote reference [TS]

01:55:01   design for how to make a headset that you will put your phone in and then you [TS]

01:55:07   know make it your VR headset did cardboard previously which was a really [TS]

01:55:13   low cost and their versions of that were sold in the apple store i think i forgot [TS]

01:55:16   the name of that Club a very popular kid viewmaster or something was making your [TS]

01:55:20   version of that I all sorts of people did i know i have a relative who works [TS]

01:55:26   for kellogg and kellogg even they had you know the cereal company even had [TS]

01:55:32   like a kit that you could you know put together her to make your phone into a [TS]

01:55:36   jack-in-the-box [TS]

01:55:37   yeah I don't know what to I don't know what to make of this is the you know [TS]

01:55:43   it's like is the phone going to be the future of ER I don't know but you know I [TS]

01:55:49   do feel like that it the whole industry is moving and if you know like big [TS]

01:55:54   trends across multiple companies is the voice driven assistance which we've [TS]

01:55:58   talked about it at length before and vr / and or /a are augmented reality these [TS]

01:56:07   things are obviously coming on the VRA our front apple has been publicly [TS]

01:56:11   absolutely absent I mean and there's no way that they're not working on stuff [TS]

01:56:16   let me know they have to be I mean it's almost a hundred percent certainty that [TS]

01:56:19   internally they must be working on something but as typical for Apple [TS]

01:56:24   they're not going to talk about it until they have a product ready to announce i [TS]

01:56:28   don't know i just this idea of the phone as the thing it it kind of works because [TS]

01:56:33   if you have VR goggles on [TS]

01:56:35   you need a display and the goggles that's roughly about the size of a phone [TS]

01:56:39   and a phone isn't that heavy but is it the way to go is that the way to go to [TS]

01:56:46   have it you know slide into a pair of you know I don't know I think if you [TS]

01:56:53   want to evangelize the technology that's one of the problems with Google's [TS]

01:56:56   previously our attempts the google glass is that it was really expensive and you [TS]

01:57:00   know you were out in public and it just it wasn't a good social situation and [TS]

01:57:04   things like oculus and the HTC why all these big elaborate headsets you have to [TS]

01:57:09   put on like helmets [TS]

01:57:10   and that's the the ito a really powerful pc to run them and that's just not [TS]

01:57:15   available to mainstream this way and your samsung did it with the Samsung [TS]

01:57:18   Galaxy gear for just a second galaxy samsung gear and galaxy gear anyway you [TS]

01:57:23   you put the phone on you put the goggles on and you're doing and that at least is [TS]

01:57:26   accessible to anybody who has a phone and a few dollars extra for the case [TS]

01:57:30   that holds it on your head and I don't know if this if wearing something on [TS]

01:57:34   your head is the endpoint for VRA our work is going to become a pervasive [TS]

01:57:37   layer in our lives is projected on services and it you know around us but [TS]

01:57:42   if you if you do want to get people into looking at br br displays this is the [TS]

01:57:48   cheapest way to get into as many people as possible at least introduce the [TS]

01:57:51   technology into our culture [TS]

01:57:53   I i guess so but is that do you think Apple would go down this route [TS]

01:57:58   no but now i don't know that i can't see Apple doing something like this although [TS]

01:58:04   I will everybody's doing it so maybe i don't know i guess i wouldn't be shocked [TS]

01:58:09   if they had apple a rvr could be the HUD display in their car [TS]

01:58:13   there's so many and there's so many ways of like we do you think about current [TS]

01:58:17   display technology it displaces doesn't matter anymore like i have an le Enola [TS]

01:58:21   just play on my wrist and I have an LCD display in my hand that's the last thing [TS]

01:58:25   I really think about they're just they're just ways of displaying [TS]

01:58:27   information and maybe Apple figure that out for this as well it's it's [TS]

01:58:32   interesting contrast with oculus because oculus is sort of going the high end [TS]

01:58:37   route where to get to drive an oculus you've really candid but my [TS]

01:58:41   understanding is you effectively need like the power of a gaming pc yeah [TS]

01:58:46   absolutely and you famously they complain that a mac won't drive it was [TS]

01:58:49   not known standard back on the market will drive and I i pre-ordered the [TS]

01:58:52   oculus I haven't received it has been delayed and my friend George pre-ordered [TS]

01:58:55   the HTC vive and she hasn't got it yet because it's been delayed either but [TS]

01:58:58   both of those require significant computer investments like you're easily [TS]

01:59:02   talking over a thousand dollars just get into the entry level of these things [TS]

01:59:05   right it's really really like high-end gaming pc caliber graphics to drive it [TS]

01:59:09   but there are you know from what I've seen I mean again you really have to [TS]

01:59:13   wear the goggles to really get the full effect but oculus is obviously producing [TS]

01:59:17   much better graphics than what google is showing with a dream i mean i was [TS]

01:59:21   watching something to put on the five and looked almost like the first ironman [TS]

01:59:24   boo [TS]

01:59:24   be where they're holding their heads up the big things were going in their hands [TS]

01:59:27   and things going on their head and the cables are pink white and maybe [TS]

01:59:31   playstation vr will be easier because people who have playstation wait you [TS]

01:59:35   mean like the ironman have one more Tony Stark made it made it in the cave creek [TS]

01:59:39   yeah baby maybe like that followed that yet but it doesn't mean they're not [TS]

01:59:44   they're not they're not easy products like you got to really commit your time [TS]

01:59:47   too and i was joking when Samsung first so i went to facebook for spot oculus [TS]

01:59:51   that facebook right now they're in a browser window and you can just close a [TS]

01:59:54   tab and you're gone and you're there an app that you can just switch apps and [TS]

01:59:57   gone but when Facebook is on your head it takes a lot of commit [TS]

01:59:57   gone but when Facebook is on your head it takes a lot of commit [TS]

02:00:00   to get out of that there's always that experience from then on anything else [TS]

02:00:05   from google i/o that you I I think that more or less covers my notes yeah i mean [TS]

02:00:09   they had a ton of sessions the way wEDC does and i haven't had time to sort [TS]

02:00:12   through much of what I'm sure there's a bunch of very small and very very [TS]

02:00:16   interesting things that we haven't seen yet but 8e it wasn't to me like the [TS]

02:00:20   razzle-dazzle google i/o we started dropping off a plane saw in the early [TS]

02:00:24   days or or even if I figured it was Hugo para or someone else was just you know [TS]

02:00:27   slamming apple at every at every chance on stages to me was a very mature very [TS]

02:00:33   product-focused very set yet that's what pic and otra is the Kenosha that's right [TS]

02:00:38   yeah he was the he was the one famously doing it this is a very sendai pitar i [TS]

02:00:42   think google i/o and I think it really benefit from that I like the new sundar [TS]

02:00:47   Pichai google as do i like it a lot more it's all that it seems like all the the [TS]

02:00:54   the crazy town stuff is all bundled up and shipped to alphabet [TS]

02:00:59   yes what is google glass was the google glass introduction that might be peak [TS]

02:01:06   google I don't like the peak of what i don't like about google was entirely [TS]

02:01:12   encapsulated by that which was everything from the glass itself as a [TS]

02:01:18   product idea which I was absurd it was terrible it's you know just stupid [TS]

02:01:24   it is absolutely a terrible product underpowered ugly on the worst part of [TS]

02:01:31   your body for an ugly wearable technically deficient I mean I've dr [TS]

02:01:38   warren I've tried to pair it's actually not that you know it's a low resolution [TS]

02:01:41   and it doesn't do anything [TS]

02:01:44   it's not you know it the fact that people thought that was gonna be a [TS]

02:01:47   product was just so goofy and says so much about the people who liked it you [TS]

02:01:52   know it's that the whole what the same Robert the guy who did the shower [TS]

02:01:57   yeah Robert Scoble Robert Scoble school said he doesn't he doesn't foresee ever [TS]

02:02:02   not wearing a google glass ever again in his life [TS]

02:02:05   yeah haha he's only nine site but combine that with the way that they [TS]

02:02:11   introduced it with a [TS]

02:02:12   with sergej jumping out of a plane [TS]

02:02:16   yes sir j do it like Serge's jumping out of a plane and landing on the roof of [TS]

02:02:20   moscone everything about that Justin capitalizes what I found ridiculous and [TS]

02:02:25   absurd and hurt my eyes by rolling my eyes so so hard about Google and all of [TS]

02:02:31   that seems gone and no they didn't ship any of this stuff yet you know [TS]

02:02:34   everything that they announced is is coming later this year but i have no [TS]

02:02:38   doubt they're going to ship it and it all seems to me like stuff that might be [TS]

02:02:41   pretty popular i think they're you know this google home seems like something [TS]

02:02:44   that depending on the price and I don't think they announced the price you know [TS]

02:02:49   no i don't iike least not that I saw i am going to assume it is going to be [TS]

02:02:54   roughly google echo priced in our amazon echo priced so let's say a hundred fifty [TS]

02:03:01   to two hundred dollars something like that into and or lower [TS]

02:03:04   I think they're gonna sell a million of them i can see a low and duo taking off [TS]

02:03:10   and being successful and I think android and seems like a nice update to injury [TS]

02:03:16   absolutely and almost everything except for android and me they clearly said [TS]

02:03:19   it's coming to ios and android which means like to me they've gotten their [TS]

02:03:22   act like they sort of understand now that there are services company and if [TS]

02:03:25   their end goal is like the star trek computer to be the machine learning to [TS]

02:03:29   be the AI they need to you need to reach as many people as possible we need that [TS]

02:03:32   scale and as much as Android was interesting way for them to head and [TS]

02:03:35   make sure they always had access to at least some some form of defiance in [TS]

02:03:39   people's hands they are really being ubiquitous now with this technology and [TS]

02:03:43   this to me is a cleaner more focus google yeah did you see the thing with [TS]

02:03:46   it there they added split-screen to android I senior I didn't see this [TS]

02:03:51   version I've seen various versions before and including on the phone which [TS]

02:03:55   is in are getting so I forget what i did see that yeah I forget if it's a long [TS]

02:04:01   tap or a DoubleTap but you did that the standard three buttons now on android [TS]

02:04:06   are back button on the left home button in the middle and the multitasking [TS]

02:04:13   button on the right so if you tap the multitasking button it puts your seven [TS]

02:04:19   most recent apps and you know it's a lot like iOS we see that you just choose [TS]

02:04:23   between these that turns your apps into windows [TS]

02:04:25   you can scroll between them and switch if you'd long tap on it now it in [TS]

02:04:30   Android n it split goes to split screen multi-screen and even on the phone so it [TS]

02:04:37   turns your phone into like if you're holding it in a typical portrait you get [TS]

02:04:43   like a square on top and a square on the bottom so you kind of get like two [TS]

02:04:47   little like almost like blackberry sized screens [TS]

02:04:50   yeah and they also have picture in picture which obviously is good for [TS]

02:04:55   video and that's obviously it that's all you know just to be clear that's [TS]

02:04:59   obviously a catch-up feature to iOS but on iOS it's only an ipad feature you can [TS]

02:05:03   do it on the phone [TS]

02:05:04   so it's sort of a jump ahead there i wonder whether Apple is thinking about a [TS]

02:05:10   picture-in-picture for iphone will on Android it sits at least to me it is [TS]

02:05:14   such a like some android phones are six inches [TS]

02:05:17   you know it and bigger social for them has always been a continuing with the [TS]

02:05:19   line between tablet and phone has been busy so you really have to you make [TS]

02:05:22   those things across a range of their devices i have to say and it's one of [TS]

02:05:27   those things where I don't not pushing for Apple to add a permanent button on [TS]

02:05:31   the system like android has for multitasking but i have to say that for [TS]

02:05:36   the idea of split-screen it's a better i think it's a better interface because [TS]

02:05:39   one of the things too is because they're soft buttons it changes the icon of the [TS]

02:05:43   button like it's just like a rectangle usually and when you go to split screen [TS]

02:05:46   it's two rectangles on top of each other and so it's very obvious how you get out [TS]

02:05:50   of the mode you just tap that button again and he get out of the mode [TS]

02:05:54   I don't like the way that the ipad does split-screen I because every time I use [TS]

02:06:00   and i've been using at the ipad pro a lot more than I've was you for doing [TS]

02:06:04   things than I did on ipad before and I want to use the multitasking but it [TS]

02:06:09   seems so inconvenient to me that when I want to have to appt side-by-side I have [TS]

02:06:12   to slide the one over again tap the thing to change it from slide over to [TS]

02:06:17   split screen it seems so fiddly and then there's different ways of switching the [TS]

02:06:23   apps on either side in it is not a consistent experience yet i really hope [TS]

02:06:27   that Apple I hope Apple is dissatisfied with that as I am that would be that's [TS]

02:06:32   like maybe my number one wish list for ipad for WWDC is is for Apple to [TS]

02:06:38   have given multi idea of how we're gonna do split-screen multitasking serious [TS]

02:06:43   serious redo design-wise because I lamps [TS]

02:06:47   I don't think developers would have to do anything what now if you're already [TS]

02:06:50   on board with the size classes to support multitasking if Apple switches [TS]

02:06:54   the interface for how you get into and out of multitasking it should be a big [TS]

02:06:58   issue for developers at all [TS]

02:06:59   yeah I still go back to use Apple watch gets carousel and apple TV gets [TS]

02:07:03   headboard and would whatever the other board is that I want to get the name for [TS]

02:07:07   you get there just interface layers an iPad you can easily get its own distinct [TS]

02:07:11   interface layer that's better that's better suited to like the split-screen [TS]

02:07:14   large-screen world than just a straight port of the iphone springboard is no uh [TS]

02:07:19   but split-screen not picture-in-picture but split screen for the phone i just i [TS]

02:07:23   see that little bit of a gimmick i don't i don't know how useful that would be no [TS]

02:07:28   I'm going to start thinking maybe it would be useful important like instead [TS]

02:07:30   of two squares to top of it but then you start having you know collision issues [TS]

02:07:33   and where's the keyboard pop-up and all these other anything to start dealing [TS]

02:07:36   with yeah it kinda wanted to see that they didn't show that i wanted to see [TS]

02:07:39   what I guess it just slides the top app up off-screen and though if you're [TS]

02:07:44   typing in the bottom map it must just move it up to the top and vice versa [TS]

02:07:48   yeah that's gonna be my hope at least yeah anything else [TS]

02:07:53   no I mean it was a good show i'm eager to see what apple doesn't have a dub dub [TS]

02:07:57   yeah very interesting gonna be a fun words fun run out like that looking [TS]

02:08:00   forward to Renee people can find you now there's a new podcast you guys you guys [TS]

02:08:05   just started i was actually the gas so if you like here in a talk you should go [TS]

02:08:09   listen to appletalk which is a terrific name I cannot believe that name hadn't [TS]

02:08:15   been used for a podcast yet so that's with that's and I more you guys have [TS]

02:08:20   switched your podcast methodology there's always been the I more podcasts [TS]

02:08:24   they're still is the I'm or podcast yes but the I'm or podcast is is now sort of [TS]

02:08:31   what you network it's more community focused and we do a lot of how to stuff [TS]

02:08:36   and question-and-answer and apps and accessories and things like that and [TS]

02:08:40   then the appletalk in eternity Caldwell came up with the name she's fantastic [TS]

02:08:43   naming those things we had Michael Gartenberg join us formerly of Apple [TS]

02:08:47   Martin Carmichael Hardenberg join us and we wanted to do with more of a deep dive [TS]

02:08:50   so and you were really [TS]

02:08:51   patience to come on the first episode and we spent the entire time talking [TS]

02:08:54   about just the iphone business and a second episode was justjust on Apple pay [TS]

02:08:58   and we're gonna put up i think later today the third episode which has Horace [TS]

02:09:01   to do on it and we're just talking about Apple car so let's really do sort of [TS]

02:09:05   deeper dives and we are able to otherwise I'm finding it really [TS]

02:09:08   interesting so far [TS]

02:09:09   yeah it's really great idea and Michael Gartenberg it's funny because he was an [TS]

02:09:13   apple for a i think around 45 years was three but yes now that something like [TS]

02:09:19   that but it it was like the three years where podcast at podcast has really [TS]

02:09:25   taken off and I as we were recording the show I was like this guy is where I know [TS]

02:09:31   he's great and he's a smart guy and I've long been a fan of his writing and I you [TS]

02:09:35   know met him a few times but it's the first time i heard amount of podcast and [TS]

02:09:39   I thought this is it it's a good criminal shame that this man has not [TS]

02:09:43   been on podcast for the last three or four years because he's been an apple [TS]

02:09:46   he's really good he's really good at it and it also is surprising to me that as [TS]

02:09:51   a guy hadn't been doing it for a while he was already like a natural i got a [TS]

02:09:55   lot of people come out like especially people who worked at Apple well just so [TS]

02:09:58   good at public speaking that translates over the podcast well yeah that's it [TS]

02:10:01   well it's it the culture an inside Apple is one of I don't know you didn't have [TS]

02:10:07   necessarily do a lot of public speaking but it's a very very the people who have [TS]

02:10:14   good communication skills yes drawn to apple it's a culture where you kind of [TS]

02:10:17   need good communication skills to to succeed and so it's no surprise that [TS]

02:10:22   people come out of apple and it just never been on a podcast and are already [TS]

02:10:26   good because it's it's a very verbal go talk you know and and express your ideas [TS]

02:10:32   succinctly and clearly sort of company the way of putting it [TS]

02:10:36   everything where else they can find on twitter at Rene Ritchie sir what else [TS]

02:10:43   you want to promote what else you got you got the debug got so many pockets [TS]

02:10:47   yeah I've cut down cut down a lot so we only have only have a few right now but [TS]

02:10:51   it's we want to do this thing where instead of quantity we really wanted to [TS]

02:10:54   spend a lot more time and we doing a lot more editing on them now and we want to [TS]

02:10:57   make them as good as shows as we possibly can [TS]

02:10:59   is there a point is there like a web page where they can find all these [TS]

02:11:02   podcasts is what would I tell people to go [TS]

02:11:04   I'm what I'm were combination of all that I want to accomplish podcasts [TS]

02:11:08   alright I more.com / podcast and you can find out more Renee I thank you very [TS]

02:11:13   much for your time [TS]

02:11:14   always always good to talk to you I'll thank out to finish up here with thanks [TS]

02:11:19   to our sponsors we had warby parker the place where you get glasses the Casper [TS]

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