The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► do it with your prince fan i can't say that i was i I've obviously you know as [TS]

00:00:05 ◼   ► someone who grew up in the eighties it was impossible to miss him and I watch [TS]

00:00:08 ◼   ► tons of MTV and so all of the songs from the eighties are totally ingrained in my [TS]

00:00:13 ◼   ► head because I put this watch them just all the time because I would you know [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► watch them to be all the time I like them a lot [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► I cannot say i was particularly a fan I came around to it later because like you [TS]

00:00:24 ◼   ► I was more of a I was putting in a pot category bit more we should think it's [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► fair to say that kind of probably like more rapidly can again but I mean after [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► I got out of that phase of like you know when you still like that when your [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► teenager he tend to delete and hit things until it good and bad lot more [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► but yea once i got into sort of appreciating what man he's immensely [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► talented and he said so much cultural impacts in terms of other music another [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► just the band's that's just the way to behave it's like he's amazing [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► yeah I tweeted something last night which day was a tribute was from that [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► when George Harrison died and his son had like a tribute and there and print [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► plate and and didn't even sing I was like Tom Petty and forget who the [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► somebody else he had no chance and asante yeah man and petty did most of [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► the lyrics but then prints came up with this guitar solo at the end and it's [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► just it's just like jaw-droppingly good you had always heard i know i'm not you [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► know in some people on Twitter all the most people just retweeted because it's [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► an amazing performance and it's just I mean it's just it's a great song [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► well played and it's just amazing any and then it's even better because at the [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► end eid Prince knows he nailed it and he just nonchalantly tosses his guitar up [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► in the air and it never comes down wearable what the hell happened to his [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► guitar and just being on a wire the whole time [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► daddy just Saunders off states like it's like sections for this interesting i [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► seen performing he is incredible i realize it's a guitar not a microphone [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► but effectively is the greatest mic drop [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► I've ever so I mean in addition to being a great song in the great performance [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► yeah it is literally the best mic drop I've ever seen because it doesn't come [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► on it's [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► yeah and he walks out like Jimi Hendrix style oh but you're not accustomed to [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► hearing necessarily and songs but he can't do it you don't mind me saying I [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► just in my back pocket i could be the next romantics but yeah it's justin yeah [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► I play a lot of functions and and then never had a couple people on Twitter who [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► are like that's how can you you know to me how can you not know the princes want [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► to like the top 20 guitarists of all time maybe like top 10 and I didn't know [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► I knew he was great i know i knew we could play a bunch of instruments I knew [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► he was very talented musician and including the guitar I knew that because [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► people told me but I didn't know it in the way you really know it when you [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► actually see it [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► yeah and I realized then that all of those guitar solos on all of princes [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► songs that are so amazing for him and I didn't know that before I get a new the [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► ball after the half of the other instruments that are being right and [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► also have right now that he's just doing it all and it in a way that's just you [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► know almost impossible to comprehend i think one thing did I could probably [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► convince you to appreciate it but a lot is that everyone had to change his name [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► he had somebody and yeah so the record label basically had him by the balls for [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► producing albums under the name Prince again like his deal so they exclude and [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► the in the ultimate fuck you [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► he's like I'm gonna change my name to dis older I remember when he changed his [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► name to the character I didn't realize that it was it was a way out of his my [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► god it was 100% whey out of its like screw you like you're not owning my [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► Master's like my music I'm taking it and you're not only my name is i'm going to [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► change my name to something ridiculous and he never bothered explaining to that [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► it's not like you went on other shows and just told people that look I'm doing [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► that I'm going to keep focusing on my work [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► same reason why doesn't want all the youtube stuff is he wants to basically [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► be able to own all the distribution [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► yeah yeah yeahs service what he thinks artist deserve to be paid and I [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► absolutely have been aware of his stance on that last night I mean like everybody [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► half the people in the Western world last night you know i mean i started let [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► you know when to listen to perseverance to and not on Apple music I knew that [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► you know first thing i tried in and [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► I instantly thought while I I guess I knew that actually you know because he's [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► not into it so we just started buying a bunch of stuff from itunes it was a lot [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► of fun [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► good you know I i post the link today on during farber and if you saw it but a [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► just just like a random screenshot from a movie [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► the Prince made 1990 called graffiti bridge where he played like him you know [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► like a sort of thinly veiled version of himself like a young songwriter and in [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► 1990 the character he was you know composing a song on like a little mac [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► and smack it and and of course it was no end and it was totally legit wasn't like [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► a phony phony phony fake you I was like a real app from the day of you know like [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► it like maybe tracking yet maybe try to connect trackers and ya still like the [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► actual screen shot in the in the movie is actually like an actual song that he [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► wrote it was like so you got like a little look at at his Prince's own like [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► you know working said I workflow and right track stuff with a mac like warhol [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► drying and right right [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► sketching on mac paint right little nine inch screen tiny god what would have [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► been if it was an SE I think that was like that the guy who wrote the blog [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► post is trying to figure out he nailed it down it was either an SEO and sem 30 [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► yeah the su-30 didn't come out until like late in the year before the movie [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► was made us so there's I think there's a much better chance that it was just an [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► SE so that would have been just 68 68,000 chip I think I don't know that if [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► they had a 6820 but it wasn't until the SES 60 80 30 that the mac really got [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► fast that was a pretty slow machine you don't know you got it [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► it says a lot about is forward-looking oh absolutely absolutely notice that [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► he's like look I'm gonna try this crazy thing that probably sounded tinny and [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► kind of crappy to and compared to all the other options he had but he was [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► fascinated enough to like well and I think I was cool when I would learn how [TS]

00:06:22 ◼   ► to do it yeah I'm sure the final output you know maybe didn't come right off the [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► mac you know a lot of ways because you know I played a lot of actual analog [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► instruments but maybe to get that the composition [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► right yeah it's that that power of digital editing and the way that you can [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► you can move stuff i mean we take it for granted to there and kick you know [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► people who've grown up and an all-digital world head you know you did [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► I could see why they take it for granted big but you know when you learn to be a [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► writer or you know like it like I did where we didn't have word processors are [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► computers at our disposal all the time and I used to actually I'm high school I [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► used an actual use a typewriter to write stuff and he's like when you think about [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► like when you're halfway through a thing and you really want to move a paragraph [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► or even just take out a set if you realize you've just duplicated it's the [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► same sentence twice something that you wrote like the page before and it's like [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► you either have to reach retype the whole page or just or just live with it [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► you know you start making decisions based on convenience rather than what it [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► should be [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► craft right i mean you really was if you wanted to get it do anywhere near a [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► halfway decent job it was almost impossible not to type the whole thing [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► twice because there's how could you not make some sort of editing decision you [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► know where you go through and then retype it and you would literally have [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► to retype that the thing I mean I'm sure music you know it was the same way in a [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► lot of ways in that digital editing the same way that it's revolutionized you [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► know word processing same way from music I'm sure yeah so is definitely changing [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► the tempo like there is a bit there's almost there dimension to music that [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► doesn't necessarily happen in in writing [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► yeah totally yeah I don't know that what I remember from those days the early [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► days of mac around that time is yes yes then we did we were constantly running [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► up against every single one of the limits of the machines did I mean just [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► stacks full of floppy disks all stuffed to within a few bites of being full a [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► hard drive that was completely full if you go back even just a few more years [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► didn't even have a hard drive everything you got the floppy drive [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► severely ram constrained I mean that most of those devices a lot of those [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► early max only had and a gigabyte or two gigabytes my mac LLC in 1991 it for a [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► whopping four get are not gigabytes Megan thank you for making it is it yeah [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► four megabytes of RAM ah so you're ram constrained storage constrained the [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► storage was incredibly slow the hard drives slow the floppies were so slow [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► you could hear them making the reads and writes yeah I guess you could hear the [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► hard drives do but yeah the floor you find it comforting did yeah definitely [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► could you knew someone was working it was it was comforting away didn't think [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► about it until it went away your and then you realize that if you think that [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► something might be going wrong you don't have that comfort like at least back [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► then it's like if you thought something was going wrong like like a crash like [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► maybe our that missed you know the system is locking up but you could still [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► hear the thing you were hoping was being saved being written to you had hoped [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► that ok at least it's still writing to the disk or if it locked up and all you [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► could hear it like it were and then clicking noise right there were certain [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► oh it's you could definitely you did a big part of the diagnosis of any problem [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► back then was one of a kind of Smith what kind of noise mechanical robot is [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► fine apart right is ever certain if it was perfectly repetitious then that's a [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► bad sign [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► yes that's like the same thing is going ok yes you could hear sometimes you can [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► hear it when a program it wedged itself into an infinite loop and huh [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► and that was bad but like there's a certain randomness to the sounds of like [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► a file being written that it wasn't quite repetitious that that was soothing [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► you seeking to the different sectors so here there there was it was more of an [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► analog relationship it was fundamentally a digital machine but there was you know [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► that the actual spinning disk and and the physicality of the ones and zeros [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► being written to the disc gave it its certain a genuinely analog dimension [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► that that came across in your relationship with it [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► I feel like that's probably it I don't drive so correct me but like a manual vs [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► automatic yeah i think just like you're looking very aware of the Machine and [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► one case in the other case you kind of device from a little bit [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► well and I think there's also a if you compared to driving and I'm not really a [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► car guy but i do drive but i think there's also a almost undisputedly a a [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► comparison to as as decades go on card our cars are more and more abstract in [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► terms of just how much isolation areas from the noise outside the shock [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► absorption and older cars you really feel the road and you feel it's it's you [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► just so much less removed I mean it's almost shocking sometimes when you look [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► at a car from the sixties or seventies let them further like how thin the doors [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► are you know it's good [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► everything was a lot more thinner and you just felt the road more and it's [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► more pleasing I think overall I mean obviously consumer money talks that's [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► more pleasing to have it abstracted but in a way as the driver you're you're [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► removed from the the the just the feel of the road yeah did you show me a video [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► do that Adam beneficiated with you it's like an old 1950's Buick crashing until [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► I don't know what like a modern smoker or something [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► now I don't think so and the Buick just gets destroy their word it was like the [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► little guy just it's so much better engineer now it's it's absolutely [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► amazing the differences that they've made in the ability that's to survive a [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► crash together they call it the passing to keep that to maintain the integrity [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► of the passenger cabin and and sacrifice the entire rest of the car it's it's [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► just unbelievable words in the old days the coal car would just collapse like a [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► can of coke [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► yes kinda second if it really engine block Chevrolet going into your chest [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► it's sickening to because you think like those old-time cars the old cars were so [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► heavy that they would be safer but they just weren't because the structure [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► didn't you know the structural integrity just wasn't there but it really is like [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► it's just stepping on an empty aluminum can it's just the whole thing just yet [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► collapse into it [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► often it huh no designed for different goals ok the ATP guys are like shaking [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► their fists this now [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► oh i don't think so i think Syracuse is probably happy about the whole time Mac [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► talk and me they had a good segment recently where they were talking I guess [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► it because it was sort of one of the recent episodes was the day it's for [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► apples 40th anniversary let ya look back at our first max and and I couldn't [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► listen to get Marky know it's awful i honestly I consider myself a [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► johnny-come-lately you are given temperature and wraps guy right yeah so [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► I you know anything after that Mikey come on kids [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► exactly and no that was one of those times where syracuse it was really i [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► dunno it just felt like he was creepily picking the thoughts out of my brain [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► because it was he was i he actually started using a magnet few years before [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► me even though he's a few years younger than me just because my school my high [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► school only had one mac and when I the longer i went i had like it was almost [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► like that classes for just like two or three of us and in programming as like [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► my last two years of high school there weren't it was only like two or three [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► other kids in the class and i wanted i wanted a color display so I used that to [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► GS how was very act [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► thank you to meet their trusty well there's only one mac and end it was you [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► know and I didn't want to you know i guess i could have argued for equal time [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► on it was a member of the classroom named Elliot but I was like we're trying [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► to decide which one of us would maybe use the mac and who you know and then [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► there were a bunch of two TS in a lab that the you know we could choose from I [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► guess if neither of us wanted to use the mac we could both use the two gs but [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► he's you know he seemed more interested in the maghuin i was i was fined let him [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► have it and I played with it a little and i remember playing with especially [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► with mac right and mac paint macpaint in particular and mac draw but even back [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► then with mac draw even in 1989-90 i was instantly baffled by bezier curves but [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► if L yeah i loved and understood what it meant i understood [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► it was a vector graphic could offer and I was fascinated but damned if I could [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► it navigate the interface but Mac Manuel control points here like to do so I [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► learned the mat and I say that knowing the math and yeah do it but it's still [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► like good it's unintuitive yeah it's very unintuitive and and everything I [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► learned about the mac was just completely into it remember to do i [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► didn't i didn't like the mac is for weight so i started an apple to plus [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► love the Apple 2 GS then got into pcs and for whatever reason because i was a [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► stubborn kid I was like I didn't like the mac floppy disk i just it was right [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► because it had that latch you don't like three-and-a-half inch blog is good just [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► found it an elegant and i found that you liked the five and a quarter ones [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► because you can flip them over and use a whole bunch and then you can get a whole [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► second side you could do that with the with the plastic ones too but it was [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► obviously harder and harder to make the whole yeah yeah it was just so it was [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► done but it was like a five year phase of my life with enemy and I was getting [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► into like hardcore until assembly programming and stuff at the time but [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► then i did a drafting class in high school because they like drawing turns [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► out not the same thing but one of the things we have to do is work on a mac [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► and mac draw to change my mind and very soon after day I mean this offer was [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► $MONEY billion get tired loved it was such a new different experience [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► it's so funny to I know and I Casey even mention it because cases to way too [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► young but he was baffled by the fact that the three-and-a-half inch ones for [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► still called floppies even though there was nothing sloppy about them because [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► they were in my shell it is it's just one of those stupid names because it [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► what they did a long story short the there used to be Aiden's floppies really [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► clear back but an angry dates my time but then like in the Apple to hear and [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► what most of us in the eighties new with the five maybe as I bet your parents [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► have like a stack of five and [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► strange floppies that your ya want me possibly even five and a quarter inches [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► tall because i don't have a computer in the house so who really yeah I've told [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► this story but only have okay and my parents refused to buy can make it [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► better this is why you made that is why your career and technology went nowhere [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► all a lot of my friends were getting computers my friend Joey had an apple [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► apple 2e which I could deeply coveted because I I from the early days on could [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► I perceived that Apple's computers were superior build quality and were made [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► with that and I to design that the others weren't but i would have taken [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► any of them ever taken a Commodore Everett today I would have taken any or [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► all of them you know but my friends are getting computers they were all [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► relatively expensive the apple in particular that's some things that don't [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► change but even like a common good commodore 64 was was he won't cheat they [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► weren't cheap and a lot of my friends had to push because their parents like [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► that's a lot of money and you're not you know in my end and you're not going to [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► use it enough you know you're just gonna play games where we have an Atari four [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► games [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► my parents wouldn't buy him a computer because they said if we bought you a [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► computer were worried that you're never gonna leave the house but yeah like they [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► I don't know if it was the right parental decision or not I can't quite [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► say I even in hindsight I i can't quite say I agree with them but maybe because [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► you know I didn't have it had a pretty good social life in high school but I [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► don't maybe I wouldn't i had a computer at home and he's probably right decision [TS]

00:18:58 ◼   ► because I got so well because whatever kind of similar and not entirely bit i [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► got it the first Apple too i got was take the second summer after I moved [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► from England here so I didn't really know a lot of people in in canada and [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► basically spent the entire summer inside programming right and that became like [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► part of my I don't know how to describe it like it like recharging like you know [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► when you need some alone time to go and do something just for yourself like and [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► that lasted all during high school which is when actually became good night you [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► know [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► I want to put my trade is now but yeah there's a lot of time I just did not [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► cops like you when I really should've like in a beautiful summer I'd be like a [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► maybe i'll just try fixing this little bug in the summer between 10th and 11th [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► grade my high school shut down there the the building was had needed a lot of [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► repairs especially the roof and the school district had another building [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► there was a middle school in it and in the decades prior that the population of [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► the school district decrease such that they close the middle school put the [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► fifth and sixth graders in the elementary school and it went from three [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► schools elementary middle and high school to just two buildings in [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► elementary school for 126 and high school for seven to 12 and in between [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► 10th and 11th grade they shut down the high school and move the high school to [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► the middle school because it was a newer it was considered it was cheaper did fix [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► them in the middle school which had been dormant for like 45 years and shutdown [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► high school so the computer teacher I didn't trust the movers with the [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► computers and let students take the computers home for the summer so I got [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► to take an apple to GS home for the summer [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► oh man yeah it was awesome and I had a job i actually that school hired a bunch [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► of kids to help move the school so I like working is like a mover [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► there's a couple good that's pretty smart was that like a legit job like [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► nigga paid minimum wage [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► oh yeah minimum wage absolutely whatever i don't use whatever I think minimal I [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► could have been just playing fast and loose yeah i think it was either 375 an [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► hour or 425 an hour for dollars twenty-five minutes and that with me and [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► back-breaking work i mean i remember moving the library [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► oh my god it's like because what is heavier than a box full of books there's [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► there's and yeah [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► very little is heavier than a box of books and it just thousands of books [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► tens of thousands of books is often and we can ride it was like a two-mile ride [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► to go between the buildings [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► and they just we just had like this big flatbed open-air truck and we would just [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► loaded up with stuff and then find spots to sit if we don't know I open-air no [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► seatbelt on just a bunch of kids on the truck man look at how old schools that [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► back it's tiresome movement which kids and just throw them in the back of the [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► truck late and books they were they also did hire some adults like day laborer [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► types [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► I mean this is something that people who just do moving there's disease are not [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► highly skilled work this is at the bottom of the the skill Jane in the in [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► the the laboring world and i remember the one day we're still moving the [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► library we had the card catalog and and so it was you know obvious is predates [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► computerization of the card catalog was just this you remember what they look [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► like they just are like oh yeah total anytime there's like a hole punches on [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► the bottom like a little cards that you pull it yet yeah and you pull it out it [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► was just filled with index cards and the one guy this guy wasn't a kid wasn't [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► always like what the hell is this and we were like trying to explain to him that [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► is these are like an index of every single book in the library and he just [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► takes a few out while we're on the road going like 35 miles an hour just throws [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► coming over yeah I just I i mean i was ended I was an asshole as a teenager I [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► really wasn't it did a lot of shit that I in hindsight i really feel like i [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► needed i need to be doing anything good yeah yeah I but I was just a pot I was [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► appalled because i saw that is like we revert it as data loss like some of this [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► yeah i did like vandalism or stuff like that I I i wrote off just because it [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► seemed ultimately harmless whereas I feel like put a pretty graffiti on [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► political science right right but I mean messing with books [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► oh that was never burn a book and riots the right that way on a lake like okay [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► with the same summer so the same summer when we're moving with the old the old [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► high school had a central courtyard so that classes on the inside . sunlight to [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► write so then in other words it's sort of an o-shaped building that was [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► rectangular but [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► donut three floors central courtyard and one of the classrooms on the third floor [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► had like a janky old big-ass color TV and wasn't knew at the time and we dared [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► each other to throw it out the window into the court you took to see see what [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► kind of noise it would make and ultimately me and another guy like took [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► it like we neither of us would do it by ourselves but we read it was heavy [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► enough that I don't know if I could have it was really heavy but me and another [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► guy i don't want to know I don't want to name them just in case I don't want to [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► put his name on the right i can afford it and another kid opened up the window [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► and we toss this big-ass color TV out the window and it made the greatest know [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► is all my god it was it was worth it [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► so I did that and I didn't feel the least bit guilty about it and then there [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► was discovered there was a discussion there was a beating later about the TV [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► and it did everybody go everybody knows anybody know about the TV in the [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► courtyard and nobody nobody could remember anything about that square but [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► that awesome the cards out of the card catalog go to me that was that was [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► beyond the pale because it's like sacrilegious yeah exactly yeah its side [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► but we got the way you put it is just data life and have you seen that I think [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► i'm one of the BOS CDs that they shipped the OS on like one of the demo movies [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► was them tossing monitors offered top of their office block [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► no i don't so like it was exactly what you described they just dragged a bunch [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► of old monitors up and they just did a mock which maybe explains why they went [TS]

00:25:42 ◼   ► out of business [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► it was pretty funny as let's see about that eel and he'll probably has a link [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► of something all right I'm gonna see if I can google it after the show he was [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► passing monitors off the roof yeah you'll be being a letterman attic [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► probably didn't help either because tossing a TV off off hide high floor of [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► a building is a very Letterman like thing to do [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► yes the different the difference is that if the Letterman Show toss the TV off [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► the roof [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► they bought the team [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► be yes yeah I controlled environment there's no and I did not buy hit by that [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► TV i do not buy the TV i threw out the window but I had a job I had it was a [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► full-time job we worked you know eight hours a day I played tons and tons of a [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► basketball all summer long and filling in the gaps whatever wasn't working and [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► then every other waking moment was spent on the computer and I thought that you [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► know the fact that i held a job and still played recreational basketball all [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► the time i went to movies with friends on weekends and stuff like that seemed [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► to me like i was able to have a computer but my parents were like see this is why [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► we can't buy you a computer even though i was doing other stuff they somehow [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► seem to think that I was but now you turned out okay [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► oh yeah I don't know about that [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► well thank you for the sake of this argument [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► yeah yeah whatever look at the difference that i would say this and I [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► think that it was the fact that i just didn't I guess I got to play with that [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► one mac in the lab enough that I i saw what it was all about and I saw the [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► appeal and I really saw the cleverness of having a system that was [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► fundamentally a graphical user interface em but the idea of getting obsessed with [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► user interface design just hadn't occurred to me yet and and the the [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► profound miss of the cleverness of the max UI system just it hadn't I didn't [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► use I needed to use it more to to appreciate it i don't think it has [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► occurred to anybody it I with the exception of the people that worked on [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► Lisa in the mac it seems that's one difference with Syracuse to me it seems [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► like you listening to his early history of computing the heat got he got that [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► aspect of the mac with almost maybe instantly but certainly with less [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► exposure to it than i did I needed to own one which is which I did when I got [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► to college to have that mac like I said the aforementioned 44 megabyte of ram 40 [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► megabyte hard drive Mack LC and then really really appreciate it so no it's [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► so I like to make like I said it in the jacket [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► so I was like okay I get it this is something totally different but I didn't [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► really appreciate one until they bought one after then immediately after the [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► next acquisition and then I was stuck with OS 8 for a year and I felt [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► immediately like man I'm stuck with operating system it's like not good and [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► then I learnt all the great things about it and so yeah like I do consider myself [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► a johnny-come-lately but what I mean by nobody had appreciated it [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► I don't think the people at xerox parc weren't necessarily thinking about [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► design the same way that Apple was when they went to actually try to implement [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► my first release and then the mac yeah yeah it's hard to say without using this [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► I've never gotten the chance to use the Xerox star but I've read enough about it [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► and there's work the drugs didn't seen it and kind of looked at it and and [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► because i used to be a little bit more obsessed with the whole that stupid this [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► the angle that Apple dapple really didn't even doing with the mac they just [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► ripped off the rocks which legally isn't true because they actually got xerox in [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► exchange for a good vantage office it was totally on the up-and-up legally [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► they said how about we give you a little bit of a stock in the apple core apple [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► computer and then let us know just think that's a fast I'll argument [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► yeah in general well it's wrong and who cares like now but it's at the time it [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► was it at the time when there were was more more arguments between you know pc [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► sure at the time it was a point but I mean it's only it it's only a point if [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► you're trying to make an appeal to Authority argument right and i never got [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► too bogged down in I mean somebody might be able to dig up some old usenet posted [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► this pic pic but i seem to recall that I always have another a anti old-school [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► macclesfield well I find I found it tiresome because it it it was I was a [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► hundred percent certain that i was on the right side and it seemed to me like [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► the people on the other side didn't really have anything to contribute [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► anyway so if they're want to be wrong they can be wrong [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► like it wasn't worth trying to convince them there was what was what would be [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► the point if you know if you can't see how superior this is then you know [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► forget about it I mean circulation it's incredible how you going and edited to [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► what's that kind of my dog i thought one of the things that I thought was I had [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► to me do you remember do to you when you I don't know if you were too late i mean [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► resident was still a thing in that [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► oh yeah yeah resident to me was is maybe the my favorite mac program of that [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► loved him [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► let's just say I I while being foreign to me and love the idea of a resource [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► for i love the idea stuffing extra information in there but on the windows [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► side they try to do something similar like the exe format is a flat format but [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► you can have resources appended to it right but it's not the same thing as [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► having an actual resource for which is good and bad a good in it it's just one [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► flat binary stream bad in that you don't have the and then you want to express [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► expressiveness like it I can visit it look at multi resource file [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► well and it did it it the whole idea predated the era of universal the [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► internet the internet that really solve the problem of every computer eyes [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► because i think the internet i think the internet turned everything into the [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► lowest common denominator did that was my binary stream writing right now it's [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► it's it's not o'clock and a lot of ways there that's not some ways negative you [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► know exactly it's not to say that it meant the best thing one it just meant [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► though that there was there might be a good reason to go with the lowest common [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► denominator solution of everything is just a single for file [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► yeah I'm coming from 1-2 at the time which and even NT which both had [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► multiple resource folks [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► look at that time all of the file systems had followed with the maggot [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► done which was like okay this data in one segment and then there's a bunch of [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► other segments that have you know either metadata or you know what you guys [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► called resource works the contract extended attributes which is essentially [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► those what really it's not even the technical details of whether it was a 24 [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► volt I fork file system or if they had done something more of a hack like let's [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► say it's or you know like a lot like what we have on us ten network where [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► your app is really just a folder that the lender treats as a file and total [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► resources you know just imagine if the original mac had gone with the same [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► thing words a special magic kind of folder and in the folder are all the [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► resources and every one of the resources itself actually just a flat file it's [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► the conceptual design of having this one app that you could edit all that stuff [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► with all these different resources so that even in the nerd mode of of either [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► being a developer or just being an enthusiast who wants to customize the [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► icon for a file or a nap or folder or any of the other many many things you [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► could edit and manipulate and resident the fact that even when you did those [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► things you were still within same the same GUI universe [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► mhm and you didn't have to resort to a command line or something [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► ya know in some ways it's kind of like the small talk like living environment [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► yes I do i do think so i think you're in a strange way even though the mac the [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► original mac i don't think you would say the technical way not all that important [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► to be different but the concept is a little bit the same right like yes that [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► you stay you stay completely committed to this to this limitation that yourself [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► imposing and and beauty will come out of it yet [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► yeah i think so and you know it's funny [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► next used to do that with like apps it shipped even on OS 10 up until oh I'm [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► gonna make up a number 10 223 most of the apps would ship with nibs which [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► would next interface builder files which you could open up in [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► interface builder which has since been merged into Xcode and then edit the UI [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► of the app that you like if you didn't like the arrangement of dialog boxes you [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► can change it just like and visit it right these days they've moved away from [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► time [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► yeah they all get compiled down into stuff that you can hit afterwards from a [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► software reliability . if you think that's probably a good idea but i like [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► the old west style of you know stuff it is is common between both platforms the [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► the classic mac OS was i'm not saying that it should have [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► in hindsight that it should have gone through through to today that I mean [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► there's certainly some advantages to the Mac os10 philosophy you know of the [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► design of the system where things started getting locked down and some of [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► the technical aspects of it were not is conceptually beautiful but more [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► practical [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► I that's when I first dead can became true familiar with your accuser is our [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► to argue the at the back then it was made invest and i would argue the future [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► looking pragmatism and he would argue did well it just sucks in terms of let's [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► say window sizing right like well look it's all done on the GPU and they're [TS]

00:36:28 ◼   ► doing much stuff and it's gonna get better and that yeah but it sucks and he [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► was he was right [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► he's right i think i'm also right but if it you know there was a beauty to the [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► original mac OS know that hasn't matched since and I don't think I totally like [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► and- and I completely agree with toxic you said that iOS is closer much closer [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► yep then Mac OS tenders to the original and yeah i think now we're getting into [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► well more convoluted territory where I'm not sure [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► well the big difference the big difference and this never would have [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► made sense in the era of of [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► the original mac wouldn't have it just don't get ever would have occurred to [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► anybody even steve jobs to lock the system down and not even allow you did [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► you know they're did like the residents a perfect comparison there's never gonna [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► be a resident for iOS that lets you diddle with the icons for apps or how [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► the resources in it because it that that doesn't that there's another aspect of [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► iOS that that would be philosophically opposed to there's a sort of do not [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► allow you to shoot yours by part of the design of iOS is to design a system that [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► prevents you from shooting yourself in the foot even that you really really if [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► you've got like a really cheat you know a satchel eats foot and you just want to [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► shoot yourself in the foot [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► you're not you can't do it in iOS by itself that just never would have [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► occurred to anybody in the mac OS air like I don't think the fact that you [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► know i mean it wasn't like the Machine shipped with resident you had to put it [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► on your machine but not even allowing you to do resident or not allowing you [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► know having a resident that wasn't allowed to edit certain system files or [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► something like that never existed makes sense well I mean used to some of the [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► hacks we would do we would go right into the remember there is the system [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► suitcase there was actually there is it [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► yeah i mean as part of the things one of things that i say made the mac the [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► original mac so beautiful is that the entire file system was there was no no [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► crap there was like four or in those years went on very very little crap like [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► it was just a folder that said system folder and inside was a last suitcase [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► file called system and that had all the resources for the system itself and [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► they're all neatly organized over there were no hidden folders or anything like [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► that the only hidden folder I can remember would be the desktop folder [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► that at the root level of the hard drive there was an invisible folder called the [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► disc Desktop folder which is the actual location in the file system where [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► everything you put on your desktop was notably under the root of the disk not [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► under the user there was no user right well that's that I mean this is why [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► things got a little bit interesting i was ten came along right things get a [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► little bit tricky right [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► and that's why we started but i don't remember who is a beta that actually hid [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► anything outside of user I'll man i think that their wireless I think i [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► mighta been floated but yeah they went back and forth a lot of those things [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► yeah oh let me take a break my word [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► yeah you think several thank our first 41 minutes and you haven't even gonna [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► show you it's our good friends at audible.com this episode of the show is [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► sponsored by audible.com they have more than a hundred and eighty thousand [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► audiobooks and spoken word audio products and you can get a 30-day free [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► trial for all of it at audible.com / talk show so if you want to listen to it [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► article has it they've got audio books from virtually every genre anytime [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► anywhere you can play audibles audiobooks on phones tablet computers [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► most Kindles and even ipods I mean even sponsoring the show and other podcast [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► for many many many years because it makes sense because guess what podcast [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► anybody is listening to me talk about audible right now you are somebody who [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► enjoys listening to people talk to audio spoken audio content [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► I don't know how you're listening to me you're using you know your phone if [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► you're using your desktop got headphones on your pumping through your car [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► speakers but wherever you are whatever you're doing you like listening to [TS]

00:40:46 ◼   ► spoken word audio content so . audible with over a hundred and eighty thousand [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► of these things is something to look at [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► if to fill up the remaining time that you have to to listen to stuff i mean [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► don't stop listening to talk show but you know if you've got free time where [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► you wish that there was more stuff to listen to [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► ah audible is the one place that has more stuff than you'll ever be able to [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► listen to [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► I'm so when you begin your free 30-day trial you can get your first audio book [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► for free and there's no stress or obligation you can cancel your [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► membership in any time when you subscribe to audible you can take risks [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► and try new authors and genres without regret because audible offers their [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► great listen guarantee if you start an audiobook and you don't like it bores [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► the hell out of your what [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► however it's not what you thought it was going to be you can exchange it for free [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► for another one cannot be better people do you know people who listen to a lot [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► of audio content you this is the place to go to so soak up more of it than [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► you'll ever get [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► so go to audible.com / talk show and get your 30-day free trial [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► thank you . able for sponsoring the talk show I didn't even have this in a note i [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► do I always prepare very copious and well-organized notes for the show yeah i [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► did not have a trip down memory lane [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► there's not much i like the mac i like the max so much when i was a freshman in [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► college and finally owned one and had it i spent my entire freshman year all of [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► my free time either playing games or hacking or dealing with the system [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► resources and in resident and didn't you know I didn't go out drinking or [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► anything like that [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► all I did recreation I just continued to play basketball I play basketball and I [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► sat in my dorm room staring at my mac LC staring at it and we didn't have a [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► network at the time there was no there was no internet in the dorms at Drexel [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► University at the time so you know what and modems were modems are so expensive [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► they're probably looking at a joke [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► yeah there are preposterous is why 291 9091 292 yeah I've told this story [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► before to wee-wee wired up the dorm room [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► kelvin hall at drexel with the phone net forget what they were called but they [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► were these little and they were these were pretty cheap you can get the order [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► amount of the back Mac world magazine or mac user you mail order these things [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► going to get yours from a connection was about 15 bucks and get a little about [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► the size of the mouse maybe even spark smaller than the mouths of the day and [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► it would plug into the serial port of your mac and then I was a phone [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► connector on the other side on the box and so then you could use phone cable [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► just regular old telephone cable to create a local talk network [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► oh man executed that so you playing video games again right spectators the [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► name of the was that it was like a first-person shooter i get a [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► vector-based no pseudo vector based tank game [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► and we wired up the whole floor and we figured out you know and then I we [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► figured out that you know this is like the first time I learned how you know [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► like you know some electrical stuff work that there's nothing really magical [TS]

00:43:51 ◼   ► about phone cable it's just copper that's all it is [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► there's no it's just copper intellect you know the electrons move on it [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► doesn't you know and that the colors are just to match up [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► there's nothing different about him so yeah we figured out we could we we just [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► ran speaker wire through the drop ceiling all around the forget what floor [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► i was 18 for seventh floor of common Hall and then just ran phone wire [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► between anybody who wanted to get on the network or not you know and you don't [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► have to do any soldering or any just going to connect the dots make sure the [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► cable and is the electrical tape it up so we have the whole floor wired up [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► networking there's a chat app [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► oh my god it was like the first time I ever had African what was called boy it [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► somebody out there remember it but a mac it wasn't there when you just Hotwire it [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► was it now was way before that way it was but you can I guess you'd have to [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► know you didn't have a user ID you have a mac name though so your Mac would have [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► a home on the local top network so that's how you do you know that was like [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► your ID say but you could like effectively just sent teams to each [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► other which was amazing everything of course if everybody does this all the [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► time now but it was like my introduction to tell ya that was really cool and it [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► was all through a proper Mac interface there was no wasn't like you have to go [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► to a terminal type application or anything like that it was great yeah and [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► then we found out the kids on the floor above us had done the same thing and did [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► you bake them to you yeah there was a lot of trash let's call it an internet [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► there's a lot of trash talking about who's better at inspector and so we ran [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► some wire outside my room up to the 16 is created named yeah and then one day [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► the guy i forget them is title but whoever it was he was the guy who's that [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► in charge of the that dorm [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► yeah you know like I forget his title but the guy that was in church but there [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► wasn't like a name sounds like an eighties villain [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► yeah well he is a nice guy i just it was it was a very eight [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► keezmovies situation where i got a knock on the door and was told to come down [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► and meet him it was me and the guy above me who's thing says his smoking jacket [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► with like one of those candy with the candy cigarettes and the dorm faced [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► south or at least my side of the dorm face south and so it caught the [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► afternoon sunlight the afternoon sunlight came into our dorm [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► he said he was coming up the street yesterday and no notice the very bright [TS]

00:46:19 ◼   ► this is where we were where we screwed up is that we just use speaker wire [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► instead of we didn't really try to disguise it and that the the copper of [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► that speaker wire really it was bright it like blinded him and he saw like a [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► very bright line between our dorm rooms and we got closer and figure out what it [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► was you know that this is a fire hazard and we you know got to take this down [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► immediately and he obviously and I tried to explain that and I'm i think i think [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► i'm correct that it was not a fire hazard [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► it dont think theres not flotation right there's not a voltage you know it's not [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► our husbands also not a dumb suggestion [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► no not a dumb suggestion and I could totally see why as a someone with a job [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► that you know ya needed to deal with this [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► so we start always I will get right on it will take it right down and and all [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► we did was take down the bridge between the two floors of course and hope that [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► he didn't make any kind of spot inspection because it also seemed clear [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► he had no idea he i think he did because he saw it he thought it was a connection [TS]

00:47:20 ◼   ► between my room and the kid above his room not a connection between like 30 [TS]

00:47:24 ◼   ► dorm gray those were the days can't compete with that maybe could be used to [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► look at shielded wire little bit more gonna get ya [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► don't ya think we could have you no money was money was a problem though I [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► mean this was a network that we you know other than that with everybody had a [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► fifteen dollar box data by themselves and i would say the rest of it cost us [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► about ten dollars [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► yeah wherever wherever we went to buy the speaker wire in bulk and the DA [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► electrical tape [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► I like that you stepped up from just using the like sort of the 10 that you [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► can get from like gum wrappers burning off the paper side and that is using the [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► 10 and just kinda you're having it together [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► I'm trying to google the name of this app and I cannot find it i don't know [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► how did because it the because it was something that was only abuse in the [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► maybe ladies very late eighties and early nineties it all predates the [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► internet and predates google so i know it's like impossible you know why a used [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► to go to work I was thinking about right for old-school unix names [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► yeah i mean i wasn't a unix name it was a total Mac think it was not to support [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► but like like a brief on it [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► yeah it was like wasn't wasn't talk like something you could do local talk about [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► it but that no yeah local chakra see a protocol but talking unix yeah i [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► remember talk and then there was like variants of it like and talk and yeah [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► Amy and I used to use that extensively because I've been entirely retro episode [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► of the show so amy was in Pittsburgh and I was in Philadelphia and even though [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► it's still the state of Pennsylvania it was still this is out ancient the early [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► nineties were there was long-distance phone calls were still a thing so we [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► used to read just by talking a few minutes a week we'd rack up a hundred [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► dollar-a-month phone bill which was massive college student said there was [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► no way to to cost-effectively speak on the phone from pittsburgh to [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► philadelphia and then we just got you know we got email and email each other [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► and then [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► when we discovered like talk and talk but to be we had to use them like she [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► had to use it from like a lab rat pit at university of pittsburgh she didn't have [TS]

00:49:48 ◼   ► a computer in your dorm and eventually i think i got a modem soon enough but i [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► think when we first started doing it I might have had to go to the lab to so [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► we'd have to like schedule a time because you wouldn't be able to to get a [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► nice you know like like the whole idea of how do you start texting with [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► somebody is is a totally different problem when you don't have that the [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► phone with you at all times and there's no better sexy talk and scheduled time [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► in the lab right that but it worked [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► it was amazing you can tell you that you can see what each other was typing at [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► the same time to at least with one of them the one we like the best I don't [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► like character by character yeah it was like smelly delete yeah yeah I just that [TS]

00:50:27 ◼   ► and you can make jokes with it you know it was good yeah good way to like make [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► jokes where you type something and then delete delete [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► yeah I'm of two minds that I'm kind of glad that people don't get to see what [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► it was about to say but i remember those apps when it was like you have to be [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► careful [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► yeah I like it [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► 3-digit icq code at one point which I never used to remember i think you know [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► I yeah I never really used it really black mostly pc think yeah and I [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► remember I remember not getting there was like a real eye-opener me where I i [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► heard of it i thought no i don't think i ever signed up for it and then it but it [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► was like six months after i became aware of it when I realized that that that the [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► name was upon because I all your IRC and I you know IRC was just internet relay [TS]

00:51:20 ◼   ► chat i did use that of course and then I thought icq was just the same thing [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► where it had meant something and I didn't realize that it was icq yeah it's [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► yeah we got a cute name [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► this explains why i had no interest in using yeah well I also at the time did [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► not have any interest in talking to people that weren't in front of me I [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► think [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► has changed as they have become employed you still looking like i am i'm tweeting [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► I'm going to tweet here this is alive [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► there's a tweet livejournal actually anyone remember the name of the early [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► nineties chooser extension for instant messaging on local talk let's see if [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► Twitter can see if Twitter kenmare can consider the day [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► yeah yeah filipino going to look to live audience right i just want to say we [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► actually had a plan like I have an army outlined a document here but that's what [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► we're gonna talk about it i'm gonna do and you know what the first one was [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► Prince right we did that and we're still good but what's next on your army or was [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► it the ben thompson Apple yeah the actual services right yeah so yeah and I [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► don't want to drag you back to this because I love have done however we [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► filled it up i'll just wait until my Twitter replies have their yeah we'll [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► get back today I'm so how would you summarize Ben Thompson 10 times a great [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► piece on st. Thompson is a person you don't know the best time someone who's [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► this [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► don't like a yeah it's difficult I kid like it had a good pieces weekly free [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► may take that to hurt his weekly free for everyone's protector II column this [TS]

00:53:05 ◼   ► week was either really area is always good but i thought this one was [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► particularly good yeah i'm more or less arguing that all right [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► one of the things that makes apple very unique i'm gonna try to summarize this [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► very quickly is that apple doesn't have product divisions there's no Mac [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► division at the logical way for a company that sells what apple sells [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► would be to have a mac division and iphone division probably a separate ipad [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► division [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► although there's you know you could argue whether an ipad maybe in them in [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► the eye and iphone division a new watch division at seventh and they don't TV or [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► accessories be any accessories division the TV being the thing and they don't [TS]

00:53:48 ◼   ► that's not how the company has been setup it it that's the first thing and [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► probably the most important thing that Steve Jobs did when he came back in [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► 1997a I was dismantled that sort of thinking and it put in what would what's [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► best called I mean this is the part where Ben Ben Ben can smart talk is [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► because he actually you know like knows the business school terminology and we [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► just 11 me when you asked me to talk about this I'm like seriously like well [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► but that hasn't stopped me on it like its gonna go guy but this side of is [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► anyway because it's functional vs divisional right you just described [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► divisional right [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► Apple works as a functional structure and you know there have been exceptions [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► the ipod division was sort of an exception to this but they got rid of [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► that and wait let's define why the ipod division was a separate from that [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► because it had its own OS and it's running right of the manufacturing trust [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► yeah it made sense for and I think it sort of evolved naturally and it wasn't [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► really seen as an exception but simply that it just was just made sense [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► especially in the early years [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► yeah I'm and I really don't think it's overstating it that that the decision to [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► go with a stripped down version of OS 10 as the OS for the original iphone [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► instead of a a you know muscled-up version of the ipod OS or some other new [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► new OS in know in the mindset of the I've ipod OS and interpersonal games [TS]

00:55:32 ◼   ► right right exactly what was it called it takes you pics opx I think either p I [TS]

00:55:38 ◼   ► xof PX I oh yeah i think it was p IXO but yeah it was an embedded operating [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► system you know 44 get a license and heavily modified right i think i'm being [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► fair in describing that as a including all of you know the early ipods as ever [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► more computer like electronic gadgets and then the other mindset [TS]

00:56:03 ◼   ► it is and it just we did you know that the industry just had to wait until [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► computers got small enough and cheap enough and and ran with you know a low [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► enough energy to make ever more gadget like computers right [TS]

00:56:19 ◼   ► the iphone is a gadget like unix computer [TS]

00:56:24 ◼   ► I mean it really is it full you know it's a much better units computer than [TS]

00:56:27 ◼   ► most of the server's of you know the earlier part of our lives [TS]

00:56:31 ◼   ► well going I mean going back to what we were talking about the previously when I [TS]

00:56:37 ◼   ► stand first became the thing people all worried about like well unix rights at [TS]

00:56:41 ◼   ► these massive log files every night at midnight [TS]

00:56:44 ◼   ► ok you can't do that on a pc you know a few years later it's appropriate to be [TS]

00:56:53 ◼   ► using on a phone because of a lot of work that went into always 10 and no [TS]

00:56:57 ◼   ► soda taming unix back to be I guess more focused or don't you know [TS]

00:57:04 ◼   ► yeah boots i remember at the macworld where the original iphone was introduced [TS]

00:57:11 ◼   ► it was Macworld Expo january 2007 and it was it's the biggest sensation of all [TS]

00:57:16 ◼   ► sensations from to go into that but then it was doing the trade show was there [TS]

00:57:20 ◼   ► afterwards and I think I was doing a live episode of the talkshow did it with [TS]

00:57:30 ◼   ► cable sasser damn behavin wasn't there and so is Craig there too which is cable [TS]

00:57:36 ◼   ► it was just cable that time [TS]

00:57:39 ◼   ► yeah it gives you in this class boo three now is the different was a [TS]

00:57:43 ◼   ► different one we don't know that we had and we weren't in a glass booth and we [TS]

00:57:46 ◼   ► had an audience of people might have been after that one where where we did [TS]

00:57:52 ◼   ► it in the the glass booth which was weird but we're out on the open show [TS]

00:57:58 ◼   ► more the acoustics are terrible [TS]

00:58:00 ◼   ► I don't know where the audio is but it was just just we obviously knew we want [TS]

00:58:04 ◼   ► to talk about just mean cable sasser talking about this amazing iphone [TS]

00:58:08 ◼   ► and I just remember cable came out and we haven't I don't know 1,500 people in [TS]

00:58:12 ◼   ► front of us and cables and how many people how many of you guys are thinking [TS]

00:58:15 ◼   ► you're going to buy one right away and everybody's hand just shot up like just [TS]

00:58:19 ◼   ► shot up since I've never seen any product where every single person just [TS]

00:58:25 ◼   ► needed to have one right away it was amazing but anyway we're just smiling in [TS]

00:58:30 ◼   ► internet I couldn't buy one in Canada I was there I saw 1i bought it i like to [TS]

00:58:43 ◼   ► do and I've told the story before but all I could do for like a long time with [TS]

00:58:47 ◼   ► slide to unlock to call 911 that was it i spend a bunch of money on something so [TS]

00:58:53 ◼   ► incredible but you could use the only thing i could do is i want you to call [TS]

00:58:56 ◼   ► the police to get never asked me for abusing a feature on my new phone and [TS]

00:59:00 ◼   ► you can use it on Wi-Fi not until after jailbreak all that's right because that [TS]

00:59:07 ◼   ► I could even jailbreak it at I'm telling you all I could do is slide that thing I [TS]

00:59:10 ◼   ► totally forgot about that you had to unlock the carrier unlock it yeah you [TS]

00:59:16 ◼   ► had to get it unlocked by AT&T before it would even work as a ipod touch that's [TS]

00:59:22 ◼   ► right that's right yeah that's what I finally I was i slide the headline i [TS]

00:59:27 ◼   ► would've bought 12 I would have done the same thing it was like me buying the mac [TS]

00:59:31 ◼   ► as soon as jobs into the company would like next up but I was like a min let's [TS]

00:59:35 ◼   ► see what you got [TS]

00:59:37 ◼   ► so after the podcast I there was a friend and Apple are known for awhile [TS]

00:59:41 ◼   ► still there so I can't say who but somebody and and I knew that they did he [TS]

00:59:48 ◼   ► had disappeared for a while you know and in just disappeared in terms of like he [TS]

00:59:52 ◼   ► was obviously working on something that was all-consuming and it turned out he [TS]

00:59:57 ◼   ► was working on the you know [TS]

00:59:57 ◼   ► was working on the you know [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► first version was even called iOS yet and you know even then even though he [TS]

01:00:06 ◼   ► could reveal that the ask this is what I've been working on these didn't always [TS]

01:00:09 ◼   ► an apple person he still can't even off the record in private just you know and [TS]

01:00:12 ◼   ► you know just commiserating after the show wasn't like anything but I had [TS]

01:00:17 ◼   ► questions and you know would Apple friends always like to ask questions [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► they just sometimes don't answer them you don't have to get used to that and i [TS]

01:00:24 ◼   ► asked him i was like ok so if it's running even the most stripped-down [TS]

01:00:28 ◼   ► version of OS 10 conceivable just really really lighter weight and really take a [TS]

01:00:34 ◼   ► hatchet to all sorts of stuff that you know the demons and processes running in [TS]

01:00:38 ◼   ► the background is like that is going to take forever to turn on compared to an [TS]

01:00:43 ◼   ► ipod or like a regular cell phone and he just looked at me and smiled and he just [TS]

01:00:50 ◼   ► said yes as though yes there we did there's no way to avoid that but you [TS]

01:00:57 ◼   ► won't have to turn you know you what if you don't have to turn it off all the [TS]

01:01:00 ◼   ► time and I was like oh and i realize like that is interesting and I think did [TS]

01:01:05 ◼   ► that whole story was inspired by your like the way that like a unit most units [TS]

01:01:10 ◼   ► machines were configured that at the turn of midnight just start doing a spew [TS]

01:01:15 ◼   ► a whole bunch of automated system cleanup and log files and all this stuff [TS]

01:01:21 ◼   ► and rotate on and do all this crazy stuff and just because all the units [TS]

01:01:26 ◼   ► machines we knew to date did that doesn't mean that one that was built for [TS]

01:01:30 ◼   ► consumers would have to do that too [TS]

01:01:32 ◼   ► it's like you just step away and realize that that is a terrible assumption to [TS]

01:01:36 ◼   ► make [TS]

01:01:36 ◼   ► alright guys took that one step further in it and aid they didn't give you swap [TS]

01:01:46 ◼   ► space right and just explained that if you're using more memory then is [TS]

01:01:54 ◼   ► available to you [TS]

01:01:55 ◼   ► typical unix systems will try to make it available to you by granting you [TS]

01:01:59 ◼   ► disk-based swap out portions of whatever you working on [TS]

01:02:04 ◼   ► instead it would tell you you getting very close to the limit here and then [TS]

01:02:11 ◼   ► there wasn't even three strength right was like the second strike would say ok [TS]

01:02:15 ◼   ► what you did I just kill you your Apple go away and that brought a new [TS]

01:02:22 ◼   ► discipline to writing applications that it was foreign to the unix world where [TS]

01:02:27 ◼   ► you presume that you had you know if not complete control at least you could [TS]

01:02:37 ◼   ► marshal that the system into doing exactly what you wanted right especially [TS]

01:02:42 ◼   ► once we got to the point where disk space was if not infinite was at least [TS]

01:02:49 ◼   ► compared to ram infinite then once we started measuring hard disks in hundreds [TS]

01:02:57 ◼   ► of gigabytes at least maybe even the early maybe even like 40 80 gigabyte [TS]

01:03:02 ◼   ► sizes compared to ram that's just humongous and therefore unix is the game [TS]

01:03:08 ◼   ► of we'll just pretend ram is infinite and write out what you're using to disk [TS]

01:03:14 ◼   ► and move from disk back into actual ram what we need on-the-fly could work but [TS]

01:03:18 ◼   ► that's exactly why in layman's terms in I mean in this doesn't happen anymore if [TS]

01:03:23 ◼   ► you have SSDs and it probably doesn't happen anymore just because you don't [TS]

01:03:26 ◼   ► really most of us don't need swap or at least don't mean much but in the days of [TS]

01:03:30 ◼   ► spinning hard drives and low amount of ram when your system started to slow [TS]

01:03:34 ◼   ► down and you'd hear hard drive for feeling knowing all the time that [TS]

01:03:38 ◼   ► exactly why because it was constantly shuffling back and more inclusive visual [TS]

01:03:42 ◼   ► thing [TS]

01:03:43 ◼   ► well I'm kind of glad we did that memory lane thing right at the top of the show [TS]

01:03:46 ◼   ► it gets a lot more context of this kind of stuff with the other foot getting the [TS]

01:03:50 ◼   ► other philosophical aspect of traditional unix is that a process that [TS]

01:03:55 ◼   ► starts running will run until it processed the process itself besides [TS]

01:04:01 ◼   ► okay i'm done and now i'm leaving and you could have bugs that would crash the [TS]

01:04:05 ◼   ► thing you as a user could take [TS]

01:04:08 ◼   ► personal interaction and kill the process manually like did you know force [TS]

01:04:12 ◼   ► quit but the system itself would do whatever it takes to make sure that it [TS]

01:04:17 ◼   ► has bugs aside and user action aside you will run forever if you want to run [TS]

01:04:23 ◼   ► forever and iOS like you said said you need to be ready to die in a moment's [TS]

01:04:28 ◼   ► notice like traditional unix operating systems a bend over backwards and [TS]

01:04:34 ◼   ► service of the applications that are running if you have any data that iOS [TS]

01:04:39 ◼   ► bends over backwards right for the user right and for the interaction [TS]

01:04:43 ◼   ► interactivity interactions yeah and so the idea of as a as a proper iOS [TS]

01:04:48 ◼   ► developer is if you have any data that needs to be certain needs to be saved [TS]

01:04:52 ◼   ► you need to save it constantly and at all times at any time it changes save it [TS]

01:04:56 ◼   ► anytime it changes save it automatically because you might be killed at any [TS]

01:05:01 ◼   ► moment and that's fair game [TS]

01:05:03 ◼   ► you may be killed and then the user may come back to your lab and you're [TS]

01:05:06 ◼   ► expected to be in the same spot to pretend like nothing happened and yeah i [TS]

01:05:11 ◼   ► mean the home button used to just kill you [TS]

01:05:13 ◼   ► yeah everytime automatically USA at the home button that whatever was running [TS]

01:05:16 ◼   ► this [TS]

01:05:16 ◼   ► yeah you know I have that discipline i really do like in the denominator has [TS]

01:05:21 ◼   ► been hardcore the time it took for the prefer the animation to go back to the [TS]

01:05:25 ◼   ► home screen you were expected to be completely cleaned up [TS]

01:05:28 ◼   ► yeah you're good yeah got the boot but so anyway that that decision that [TS]

01:05:33 ◼   ► fateful decision to go the cut-down version of OS 10 route effectively [TS]

01:05:37 ◼   ► squeeze Tony Fadell out the door and sort of brought an end to that [TS]

01:05:41 ◼   ► functional arrangement and then in $MONTH 2011 [TS]

01:05:45 ◼   ► now that would be a division arrangement take ya the divisional manager I'm sorry [TS]

01:05:48 ◼   ► nnnn incorrect and then in $MONTH 2011 with the Scott Forstall now stir it [TS]

01:05:55 ◼   ► really ended it because effectively I think it's fair to say that Scott [TS]

01:06:01 ◼   ► Forstall ran in iOS division within Apple name maybe that's a little too [TS]

01:06:08 ◼   ► glib but it's you know it forestall that amount of maybe you know and there were [TS]

01:06:16 ◼   ► obviously some parts that were shared between os's but they tended to filter [TS]

01:06:20 ◼   ► back and forth [TS]

01:06:21 ◼   ► years later right like and there was even an event the one time that they [TS]

01:06:25 ◼   ► made that the theme of the event was called like the back of my mac back to [TS]

01:06:28 ◼   ► the Mac the Mac yeah and it was look we've recreated a bunch of these cool [TS]

01:06:33 ◼   ► technologies for iOS in the last few years and they actually these things [TS]

01:06:37 ◼   ► would make sense I'm know as 10 and so we've taken them back to the mac as [TS]

01:06:42 ◼   ► opposed to today's i would say extremely functionally a wine Apple where Craig [TS]

01:06:54 ◼   ► federighi he's T&J software is in charge of software and yes there's some [TS]

01:06:59 ◼   ► divisions and it seems like the watch OS team is sort of off on its own a but i [TS]

01:07:06 ◼   ► don't think in a contentious way it's just in a they have to put their heads [TS]

01:07:10 ◼   ► down [TS]

01:07:11 ◼   ► no I don't think it's contentious that you're right it's early days right [TS]

01:07:14 ◼   ► yeah exactly i think it makes sense for early days that you sort of get i think [TS]

01:07:18 ◼   ► you could probably say the apple TV is kind of in the same boat again but apple [TS]

01:07:23 ◼   ► TV is Right believe under 80 kia the I did think so but i don't i'm not [TS]

01:07:31 ◼   ► entirely sure I'm pretty sure now that you're right and so Ben Thompson's [TS]

01:07:47 ◼   ► argument is that this works great for devices [TS]

01:07:50 ◼   ► Apple has proven that it works great in it it explains apples continue you know [TS]

01:07:56 ◼   ► I wouldn't you know anything can end because it all depends on actual [TS]

01:07:59 ◼   ► execution they have to it's easy so long as you keep making great products and [TS]

01:08:04 ◼   ► that's actually a very you know the keep making great products is difficult in [TS]

01:08:09 ◼   ► and of itself but if you do it's easy to keep keep them popular and to keep the [TS]

01:08:14 ◼   ► integration between things that that makes apple stuff so you know famously [TS]

01:08:20 ◼   ► fun and easy and and and attractive to use [TS]

01:08:26 ◼   ► yeah and I in some ways that do think that it's folly to associate a the [TS]

01:08:35 ◼   ► success of one company with the prominence of one kind of model like you [TS]

01:08:43 ◼   ► don't whether one company succeeds or fails as a lot more to do with other [TS]

01:08:50 ◼   ► factors and other than the particular model like you can't you can't i don't [TS]

01:08:55 ◼   ► think you can look at any functional company and be like well they're bound [TS]

01:08:58 ◼   ► to be like Apple because that's not the truth [TS]

01:09:02 ◼   ► similarly don't think you can say that like I need company that follows a [TS]

01:09:06 ◼   ► division organizational pattern is going to become like DuPont which is his you [TS]

01:09:15 ◼   ► know his is example right right Ben's example is that for [TS]

01:09:23 ◼   ► excuse me I think it's pretty interesting is to compare apple today to [TS]

01:09:27 ◼   ► dupont from like a hundred years ago [TS]

01:09:30 ◼   ► first we're well on our way to go to one department became huge by building one [TS]

01:09:34 ◼   ► doing one thing which is making gunpowder and then 371 now is popular [TS]

01:09:40 ◼   ► and then post-war they realized that gunpowder was a technical level very [TS]

01:09:47 ◼   ► similar to making paint and a lot of stuff needed to be repainted me as a [TS]

01:09:52 ◼   ► world war one and so they decided to take a weary and see what seemed like a [TS]

01:09:57 ◼   ► natural area of growth for the two-point company was expanded into making paint [TS]

01:10:01 ◼   ► and it yet somehow they ended up losing tons of money on the paint business [TS]

01:10:05 ◼   ► because of even though it was similar to manufacture the market was entirely [TS]

01:10:10 ◼   ► different right so selling gunpowder they would sell two massive fires like [TS]

01:10:15 ◼   ► uh well I mean obviously the military be effective as it was I let the bullets [TS]

01:10:20 ◼   ► yeah selling pain could be selling a monopod that are trying to like and how [TS]

01:10:26 ◼   ► sir there you know this my business kind of think very different very different [TS]

01:10:30 ◼   ► marketing very different packaging very different distributions games right and [TS]

01:10:35 ◼   ► and you know they ended up having to switch and so they switched to [TS]

01:10:39 ◼   ► a division division right so there's a paint division and gunpowder division in [TS]

01:10:43 ◼   ► it and it worked out and then that became the model for a big corporations [TS]

01:10:50 ◼   ► ever since and then now apples soon as the exception as opposed to a hundred [TS]

01:10:55 ◼   ► years ago where were apples functional arrangement would have seen more natural [TS]

01:11:00 ◼   ► so the question is should Apple services be split out into a divisional dad this [TS]

01:11:07 ◼   ► is where this is the point of the whole point of Ben's thing is that this works [TS]

01:11:11 ◼   ► great for apple with devices it is not working out well for them with services [TS]

01:11:15 ◼   ► and apple themselves their executives on the quarterly call like lat three months [TS]

01:11:20 ◼   ► ago emphasize their efforts into services and it's Ben's argument is that [TS]

01:11:28 ◼   ► they should really should split services out into a separate division even [TS]

01:11:32 ◼   ► account you know even do a separate profit and loss for that division and [TS]

01:11:37 ◼   ► not even i think ok well II equivalents on and a little bit but it equivocate [TS]

01:11:44 ◼   ► they should say but a separate profit loss would allow them to track the [TS]

01:11:49 ◼   ► progress of the services division separately from the product division i [TS]

01:11:57 ◼   ► can see I i I'm not entirely convinced that is right but I can definitely get [TS]

01:12:01 ◼   ► it i see that he might be and and the difference is that i think and I think I [TS]

01:12:07 ◼   ► you know I think he makes this . too but that the traditional divisional nature [TS]

01:12:13 ◼   ► is what creates intercompany political conflict that blocks the data it often [TS]

01:12:22 ◼   ► leads to this is why a company never tends to disrupt itself that if Apple [TS]

01:12:28 ◼   ► had a culture like that then the the iphone where they never would have even [TS]

01:12:33 ◼   ► debated whether it was the ipod division that would make the iphone because of [TS]

01:12:37 ◼   ► course they did because the ipod was the new hot thing at apple at the name and [TS]

01:12:41 ◼   ► then the ipod division might have made designed an iphone that was designed to [TS]

01:12:45 ◼   ► make sure that that didn't keep people from wanting to still buy an ipod [TS]

01:12:50 ◼   ► and the little could just go forward a little bit more than the if there was an [TS]

01:12:55 ◼   ► iphone division and $STREET and steve jobs wanted to make a tablet they would [TS]

01:13:00 ◼   ► have been political and you know resistance within the company of but [TS]

01:13:04 ◼   ► what if these tablets make people not by as many iphones and so on and so forth [TS]

01:13:09 ◼   ► whenever the magnetization particular would say no way what about you know the [TS]

01:13:13 ◼   ► macbook macbooks are the heart and soul in the only part of our business it's [TS]

01:13:17 ◼   ► growing and clearly this tablet which you guys you've won even make a keyboard [TS]

01:13:22 ◼   ► for is something that's going to how could it not how can everyone of these [TS]

01:13:28 ◼   ► that you sell for only seven hundred and fifty dollars not mean that someone is [TS]

01:13:33 ◼   ► less likely to buy one of our things for $1,500 hey what I mean just look at the [TS]

01:13:37 ◼   ► new smaller ipad pro with it just have a couple of days ago updated MacBook right [TS]

01:13:47 ◼   ► uh I don't know I they're very much seem to be in the same spectrum moment [TS]

01:13:54 ◼   ► without question [TS]

01:13:55 ◼   ► I mean it's you know it's which one you prefer but it's in Hannah in a [TS]

01:13:59 ◼   ► divisional and I you know I i know enough about apple in time you know and [TS]

01:14:04 ◼   ► I have enough friends who work there and you do to that i'm not arguing that [TS]

01:14:08 ◼   ► Apple is a company without internal politics and without grumbling between [TS]

01:14:12 ◼   ► people who work on this and people who work on that or people who even if the [TS]

01:14:17 ◼   ► what they're working on isn't isn't even in conflict with each other but a lot of [TS]

01:14:22 ◼   ► times that the most astute critics of things within Apple that are subpar are [TS]

01:14:27 ◼   ► other people at Apple who work on something else who that the whole point [TS]

01:14:30 ◼   ► of the whole reason they work at Apple have a career Apple as they tend to be [TS]

01:14:33 ◼   ► very talented people with very high standards for how stuff works that they [TS]

01:14:37 ◼   ► get the Apple way I'd even remove the the provision that they work on [TS]

01:14:42 ◼   ► something else [TS]

01:14:43 ◼   ► yes honey i honestly think people that work at Apple or their own worst critics [TS]

01:14:47 ◼   ► that's it that's a fantastic . that is this true [TS]

01:14:50 ◼   ► honestly kind of what makes them write a great company right look at that kind of [TS]

01:14:54 ◼   ► the key right and that sometimes when you talk to people at Apple the people [TS]

01:14:58 ◼   ► who i think are the best and the people are my golf course of course you're [TS]

01:15:01 ◼   ► successful at Apple are the people who [TS]

01:15:03 ◼   ► you're exactly right they are the ones who know all the things that suck about [TS]

01:15:06 ◼   ► the thing that they work on and you say hey the new buddy call is really great [TS]

01:15:10 ◼   ► and they'll be like thanks but I mean come on and then they know everything [TS]

01:15:13 ◼   ► that's wrong with it and it's like oh yeah of course you work at Apple and the [TS]

01:15:16 ◼   ► people who want to brag about this stuff to work on your like you're not gonna [TS]

01:15:19 ◼   ► last long [TS]

01:15:20 ◼   ► yeah you know i mean we're talking on you and I think we were probably there [TS]

01:15:27 ◼   ► together we're talking to people worked on earlier iphones and telling them how [TS]

01:15:29 ◼   ► awesome that touch interaction is and then they're like oh my god i can get it [TS]

01:15:33 ◼   ► to go look if I do this in this way below 60 frames-per-second you can feel [TS]

01:15:38 ◼   ► like they knew all the pads to get to do something that would make scrolling or [TS]

01:15:42 ◼   ► whatever drop any 60 frames per second and they're like that's the seduction [TS]

01:15:47 ◼   ► yeah you just built the weather always but the time it ships to on to the next [TS]

01:15:50 ◼   ► thing right exactly but that's exactly why they keep getting better you're over [TS]

01:15:53 ◼   ► here is that they're exhausted by the end it's there it's what it just as a I [TS]

01:15:59 ◼   ► don't know as a better metaphor a you did you cook ever use sometimes I cook a [TS]

01:16:05 ◼   ► few things [TS]

01:16:05 ◼   ► ok so you know when you cook and then you like okay whatever that back over [TS]

01:16:10 ◼   ► here as well [TS]

01:16:11 ◼   ► ok sorry but whatever when you cook something and then you're you're eating [TS]

01:16:17 ◼   ► it and you're always there at the hallways and the harshest critic and [TS]

01:16:21 ◼   ► like a didn't work out so well I could have left this a little bit more [TS]

01:16:24 ◼   ► this could be a little bit more tender and everybody else is like would you [TS]

01:16:27 ◼   ► shut up and stop being a dick [TS]

01:16:29 ◼   ► yes I'm trying to enjoy this you know the meal and I'm always like yeah maybe [TS]

01:16:33 ◼   ► next time I'll do this and that's just because that's the way of my words and i [TS]

01:16:39 ◼   ► think it apple with software or hardware think that's what you're thinking it's [TS]

01:16:44 ◼   ► like okay that came out of the oven pretty good i'm happy clap that shift [TS]

01:16:49 ◼   ► now you know how do i improve on that [TS]

01:16:53 ◼   ► that's absolutely me does most of the cooking here and that's absolutely how [TS]

01:16:57 ◼   ► she is she's way wait she's our own harshest critic now and it's it to show [TS]

01:17:01 ◼   ► you if you're a good person a good worker who's focused on improving the [TS]

01:17:04 ◼   ► product that's the way your mindset has to be and if you're a sort of [TS]

01:17:08 ◼   ► self-centered person [TS]

01:17:09 ◼   ► who's more worried about your own career or just just the way other people [TS]

01:17:14 ◼   ► perceive you because you your your you know if I can influence very already [TS]

01:17:20 ◼   ► complex or something like that that then you're gonna you're gonna want to make [TS]

01:17:24 ◼   ► people think that whatever you've done is awesome and perfect and you know and [TS]

01:17:28 ◼   ► laugh at the competition and stuff like that you can see left the country [TS]

01:17:35 ◼   ► well yeah sometimes they suck but you know what I you know what I don't [TS]

01:17:38 ◼   ► totally know what you mean yeah it's like this there's a difference between [TS]

01:17:41 ◼   ► laughing at them and discounting yeah you still I still sometimes meet people [TS]

01:17:46 ◼   ► at Apple who and I'm exaggerating but it in some degree seem to buy into the [TS]

01:17:51 ◼   ► where Apple whatever we do is going to be the best you know sort of thinking [TS]

01:17:56 ◼   ► that the exceptionalism of Apple is just that's just the rules of the game or [TS]

01:18:01 ◼   ► whatever Apple makes his excellent just because it's apple now that's not my [TS]

01:18:04 ◼   ► fear that's played hard and African what I'm exaggerating that that you know [TS]

01:18:09 ◼   ► putting it in words like it but there's a certain mindset that you buy into that [TS]

01:18:12 ◼   ► even a little bit and it's I to me it's a very dangerous way of thinking and [TS]

01:18:17 ◼   ► it's a natural trap to fall into but the best people don't have that mindset I [TS]

01:18:26 ◼   ► let me interrupt the show breaking news to do to do to do the thing I was [TS]

01:18:30 ◼   ► talking about the ethernet old-school not ethernet what's up before you turn [TS]

01:18:34 ◼   ► it a local talk but it did work over ethernet either talk to while either [TS]

01:18:39 ◼   ► talk was like local talk over ethernet but that was expensive we couldn't do [TS]

01:18:43 ◼   ► that indoor anyway the name of the app was broadcast it was awesome it was [TS]

01:18:51 ◼   ► awesome at four locations just put forward and hadn't guessed that one [TS]

01:18:55 ◼   ► broadcast all the good name that's a great name i will see i will do my best [TS]

01:19:00 ◼   ► to find a link for the show notes that shows it so what do you think [TS]

01:19:10 ◼   ► about this service well I can kind of so-so in in a follow-up piece that is I [TS]

01:19:17 ◼   ► don't think its public at now is honest is a subscriber only newsletter which we [TS]

01:19:23 ◼   ► maybe you should ask him to make that given all the time of the few times he [TS]

01:19:27 ◼   ► really has have ever had anything like that whatever that now it's like a week [TS]

01:19:30 ◼   ► old [TS]

01:19:31 ◼   ► I'll see what I can do yeah I'm you clarify some of his points he gets a lot [TS]

01:19:38 ◼   ► more detail into into his thinking and and also acknowledges some of the d de [TS]

01:19:49 ◼   ► some trepidation I should say about like switching into it [TS]

01:19:55 ◼   ► switching and services into its own division but does bring out the point [TS]

01:20:01 ◼   ► that apple retail was Ryan has its own division for a long time right [TS]

01:20:06 ◼   ► because running in retail division is fundamentally different than winning you [TS]

01:20:13 ◼   ► know hardware/software organization is that not true phus services to yeah I [TS]

01:20:20 ◼   ► almost think that the online services are of a very closely analogous to the [TS]

01:20:24 ◼   ► stores where the services are just glue that that that is there to make the [TS]

01:20:32 ◼   ► devices better the devices are still the fundamental business of the company and [TS]

01:20:37 ◼   ► the services are just a the stores are just a way to get more of the devices [TS]

01:20:42 ◼   ► sold and the services are just a way to make the devices better once you on them [TS]

01:20:47 ◼   ► it's like what the stores are before you have the new Apple device in your hand [TS]

01:20:52 ◼   ► the services are to what you do with it after you open it open it starting well [TS]

01:20:57 ◼   ► okay so it is where I don't know if I'm even playing devil's advocate but I'm [TS]

01:21:06 ◼   ► gonna come at this from a different aspect and the stores [TS]

01:21:13 ◼   ► ok [TS]

01:21:15 ◼   ► saying stories with just a way to push Mac products okay fine but are the [TS]

01:21:21 ◼   ► services just a way to push the devices or are they have things themselves well [TS]

01:21:27 ◼   ► as what Apple is kind of been saying but I think though that the all of it isn't [TS]

01:21:34 ◼   ► further serving the apple brand as a whole right i mean because that's why [TS]

01:21:40 ◼   ► the stores are nice right there the nicest stores some of the nicest stores [TS]

01:21:44 ◼   ► i've ever seen that sell any products anywhere in that that there is famously [TS]

01:21:49 ◼   ► don't go full Trump on this but they are they IM not IM just joking but and [TS]

01:21:54 ◼   ► they're very anti-trump Ian in their design yes sir [TS]

01:21:58 ◼   ► yeah whether they're not or no opposite yeah they are you know architectural [TS]

01:22:02 ◼   ► very minimalist I you know but that famously you know that the earlier [TS]

01:22:10 ◼   ► stores i don't think they use the same attorney more but they got a special [TS]

01:22:13 ◼   ► kind of limestone from Italy that Steve Jobs had seen while while traveling in [TS]

01:22:17 ◼   ► Europe and all sorts of crazy stuff that they do to make every detail right now [TS]

01:22:21 ◼   ► it's not like hey let's there's no sense of cheaping out in the stores and i [TS]

01:22:25 ◼   ► think that the services should be the same way where it's not like well this [TS]

01:22:29 ◼   ► is just an afterthought to help that I think they should they should be thought [TS]

01:22:32 ◼   ► of as these things that are first-class parts of the Apple brand and the Apple [TS]

01:22:38 ◼   ► you know customer experience [TS]

01:22:40 ◼   ► ok so what are the surfaces can you write them i guess that sounded like I'm [TS]

01:22:48 ◼   ► challenging you i don't i'm honestly I'm like okay what are they [TS]

01:22:52 ◼   ► well the ones area one area where I disagree with Ben and we do it on the [TS]

01:22:56 ◼   ► podcast occasionally is he has a lower opinion of apples online services than I [TS]

01:23:01 ◼   ► do [TS]

01:23:02 ◼   ► I actually think apples online services are a lot better than they get credit [TS]

01:23:05 ◼   ► for and I think in many cases many cases suffer from just that the notion the [TS]

01:23:14 ◼   ► basic notion that people believe Apple makes great devices and creamy services [TS]

01:23:17 ◼   ► and by starting with that framework in their mind they're a lot more likely to [TS]

01:23:22 ◼   ► have a two to focus on the negative aspects of of Apple services and then [TS]

01:23:26 ◼   ► secondly some of them suffer from [TS]

01:23:29 ◼   ► a bad first impression when maps is a great example of that where a lot of [TS]

01:23:34 ◼   ► people some people and and real-world usage Apple maps is off the charts its [TS]

01:23:38 ◼   ► way by far and away the most popular map service for iphone and iOS users and [TS]

01:23:46 ◼   ► part of that is just by nature of being pre-installed but secondarily it's [TS]

01:23:50 ◼   ► gotten a lot better and I am i arguing that is it is as good as Google Maps no [TS]

01:23:57 ◼   ► but i don't i don't use google maps anymore just because I never I never you [TS]

01:24:02 ◼   ► know that that whole like i'll keep the app installed because if Apple maps lets [TS]

01:24:06 ◼   ► me down i use google maps that hasn't happened to me in forever at least since [TS]

01:24:10 ◼   ► the transit came to New York and Apple maps and I think in arguably anybody who [TS]

01:24:16 ◼   ► looked at Apple maps just the general state of how much is mapped into much [TS]

01:24:19 ◼   ► detail its it much improved so i'm not i'm not as down on services overall and [TS]

01:24:26 ◼   ► maps is just one example but anything like that map's I message iCloud more [TS]

01:24:32 ◼   ► wait let's so let's take I message as a as a service the value proposition have [TS]

01:24:42 ◼   ► I message is that it's encrypted and to end and it works across all your devices [TS]

01:24:48 ◼   ► and that's all you iOS devices and your Mac okay all your Apple devices [TS]

01:24:55 ◼   ► how do you ensure it that is true if like how do you put that into web [TS]

01:25:00 ◼   ► browser [TS]

01:25:01 ◼   ► I don't think this should I wouldn't ok so that limits the value of the service [TS]

01:25:06 ◼   ► to write the Apple devices right that's what i'm saying is i see like Heidi [TS]

01:25:09 ◼   ► breakout services [TS]

01:25:11 ◼   ► apart from the devices that they support right I see what you mean you're saying [TS]

01:25:14 ◼   ► you know i can t make a division that is all about so Microsoft did it and and [TS]

01:25:19 ◼   ► you were on board for it with a sure where they could just be like you know [TS]

01:25:25 ◼   ► what screw windows and office which is going to make an awesome service [TS]

01:25:29 ◼   ► yeah that's different than what Apple can do with the services that they [TS]

01:25:35 ◼   ► currently run because they seem a [TS]

01:25:39 ◼   ► you know quite integrated with the you know the devices or at least the notion [TS]

01:25:45 ◼   ► that they have trusted endpoint and it's it kind of conflicted you're going to [TS]

01:25:51 ◼   ► start saying hey and you report your own profit and loss and you're not allowed [TS]

01:25:56 ◼   ► to expand to windows or android right web are are you cutting you know [TS]

01:26:02 ◼   ► youryour that becomes a strategy Jackson like you're cutting them off at the [TS]

01:26:06 ◼   ► knees [TS]

01:26:06 ◼   ► you're saying we're going to count we're going to we want you to be as profitable [TS]

01:26:08 ◼   ► as you can but where we're setting rules that will prevent you from being as [TS]

01:26:12 ◼   ► profitable as as you could be as it just as an independent entity because we [TS]

01:26:16 ◼   ► think it serves the company's interests over all right and I don't think they [TS]

01:26:22 ◼   ► face that with the detail because it couldn't really conflict with air [TS]

01:26:31 ◼   ► yeah there weren't any rules there weren't at the water any strategy tax [TS]

01:26:34 ◼   ► type rules imposed upon the apple store that held them back right for example [TS]

01:26:39 ◼   ► they're not sure that if Ron Johnson back in the day had said to Steve Jobs [TS]

01:26:44 ◼   ► hey I some of these people are coming in and they want to buy windows laptops to [TS]

01:26:49 ◼   ► can we sell some dell windows you know Dell laptops on the table across from [TS]

01:26:54 ◼   ► the powerbooks and jobs would have said you're fired right but he wouldn't have [TS]

01:26:59 ◼   ► done that actually it did that actually wouldn't have actually helped the apple [TS]

01:27:03 ◼   ► stores make more money that if it's in theory I you could see out you know [TS]

01:27:07 ◼   ► turning it into more of like a best buy where they sell anything and everything [TS]

01:27:10 ◼   ► defeats the whole purpose which was to focus you know that by putting all the [TS]

01:27:15 ◼   ► apple stuff together and showing that it was different [TS]

01:27:18 ◼   ► actually made it more likely that they would sell them but they did sell [TS]

01:27:20 ◼   ► accessories that went on apple and even competed with apple stuff like [TS]

01:27:25 ◼   ► headphones [TS]

01:27:26 ◼   ► yeah yeah they still do ya still did [TS]

01:27:32 ◼   ► and I'm gonna take a lot of beads which is the biggest one but they don't impose [TS]

01:27:36 ◼   ► a rule on the that you can only sell apple stuff like headphones you know [TS]

01:27:40 ◼   ► it's we can't you can't sell a book this was the book that jobs got yanked the [TS]

01:27:46 ◼   ► house was one a long time ago i forget which it yeah I was funny just what I'd [TS]

01:27:56 ◼   ► I honestly admire dick did just preciousness of that kind of stuff [TS]

01:28:01 ◼   ► why didn't did they used to sell books is that I don't know I but I mean you [TS]

01:28:07 ◼   ► remember the story i'm sure you've heard about it right [TS]

01:28:11 ◼   ► I do remember what I mean it wasn't even that long ago but I remember when I used [TS]

01:28:15 ◼   ► to sell tons and tons of box software [TS]

01:28:17 ◼   ► yeah yeah well some of your friends like on me and that you know shit like [TS]

01:28:23 ◼   ► delicious monster had some stuff [TS]

01:28:25 ◼   ► oh yeah we're definitely know people who had I think BP and it was still on in [TS]

01:28:29 ◼   ► boxes at the time yeah yeah I'm Karen fact I know that BB at some point was [TS]

01:28:35 ◼   ► still in the box and when it was in a box it was in the apple store's security [TS]

01:28:39 ◼   ► text box software is a herd [TS]

01:28:43 ◼   ► I mean people hit the App Store wow the thirty percent rockstar than thirty [TS]

01:28:48 ◼   ► percent you lose on the app store is nothing compared to what you lost $MONEY [TS]

01:28:51 ◼   ► in bonds software examine we could do all show about it but it's and you know [TS]

01:28:55 ◼   ► it from the games too [TS]

01:28:57 ◼   ► I mean it was exactly the same probably even worse because that there was more [TS]

01:29:01 ◼   ► money involved or it but it i mean you literally buying spots to be like how [TS]

01:29:08 ◼   ► much money is it going to cost us to have it at Foot level part of the reason [TS]

01:29:12 ◼   ► that like not even I level like foot level it's a protection racket is it was [TS]

01:29:16 ◼   ► yeah it was like okay we'll take it but we're only we're going to put it on the [TS]

01:29:20 ◼   ► bottom shelf which is like ankle level was really got to talk to him into [TS]

01:29:24 ◼   ► taking it right like dinners and like and like just flirty girls like to hold [TS]

01:29:32 ◼   ► it was it's a nightmare but the night like talking to sales did shake not cool [TS]

01:29:39 ◼   ► I'm glad all of that aspect is gone but at the same time it's like still not [TS]

01:29:45 ◼   ► great in terms of actually getting you know the way the absolute working with [TS]

01:29:51 ◼   ► this I don't want my box at the ankle level well then you have to pay [TS]

01:29:57 ◼   ► yeah and it was exactly why a person I'm not a jagged basement and there was no [TS]

01:30:03 ◼   ► way to sell like even a relatively small app that you knew would appeal to like [TS]

01:30:08 ◼   ► consumers and that you'd want to be like a consumer-friendly price there was no [TS]

01:30:11 ◼   ► way to like price it accordingly because so much money came off the top that you [TS]

01:30:15 ◼   ► had to charge like $75 that just as a starting point if not more [TS]

01:30:22 ◼   ► I don't we can come back to let me take a break and thank our next sponsor it's [TS]

01:30:26 ◼   ► our good friends at Squarespace this episode is brought to you by Squarespace [TS]

01:30:29 ◼   ► start building your website today at squarespace.com use the offer code [TS]

01:30:34 ◼   ► Gruber my last name GRU BR at checkout [TS]

01:30:38 ◼   ► when you buy and you get ten percent off now what type of website can you build [TS]

01:30:42 ◼   ► with squarespace much better question would be what type of website you can't [TS]

01:30:46 ◼   ► build with squarespace Squarespace is gotten amazing it's always been a good [TS]

01:30:52 ◼   ► product always been a good hosting service but you go to squarespace and [TS]

01:30:56 ◼   ► they take care of everything you start an account you start you tell them what [TS]

01:31:00 ◼   ► type of site you want to build a store a blog podcast a portfolio site if you're [TS]

01:31:06 ◼   ► an artist anything like that just tell you know you go through its all visual [TS]

01:31:10 ◼   ► then they show you templates for that type of site and you pick a template and [TS]

01:31:15 ◼   ► you pick features that you want that you have and then you see it [TS]

01:31:19 ◼   ► what you see is the actual website that you would have if you turn it on and [TS]

01:31:22 ◼   ► make it live and any changes you make you don't make the code you just make [TS]

01:31:26 ◼   ► them when you're logged into your account as the account owner you just [TS]

01:31:30 ◼   ► make them visually it is truly wysiwyg brought to the web where you're in the [TS]

01:31:36 ◼   ► web browser looking at your site and you just move this stuff and change the [TS]

01:31:40 ◼   ► stuff right there as you're looking at it [TS]

01:31:42 ◼   ► it is phenomenal and they've you guys have heard of square space for a long [TS]

01:31:46 ◼   ► time I mean they have been around for awhile but they're relentless on moving [TS]

01:31:51 ◼   ► this forward the plat whole platform forward and making it more and more [TS]

01:31:55 ◼   ► powerful and expanding into more and more things professionally designed [TS]

01:32:00 ◼   ► websites really really amazing looks very modern intuitive and easy-to-use [TS]

01:32:06 ◼   ► tools for editing and publishing and changing they even take care of stuff [TS]

01:32:09 ◼   ► like domain names if you need one [TS]

01:32:12 ◼   ► so here's what you do start your free trial site today for any type of site [TS]

01:32:17 ◼   ► you might want to just go there see if you can make it in square space for free [TS]

01:32:21 ◼   ► at squarespace.com and then when you do sign up just make sure to use that offer [TS]

01:32:25 ◼   ► code Gruber and you will save ten percent and they'll know that you came [TS]

01:32:29 ◼   ► to them from here from the show so my thanks to squarespace yeah I don't know [TS]

01:32:34 ◼   ► back to whether or not agree with them [TS]

01:32:36 ◼   ► I don't know it makes a good case maybe the answer is sort of a half-and-half [TS]

01:32:41 ◼   ► and I don't know maybe that's stupid [TS]

01:32:43 ◼   ► maybe I'm trying to have it both ways but maybe i would say not so much the [TS]

01:32:48 ◼   ► profit-and-loss aspect of it and again I message is another example how are they [TS]

01:32:53 ◼   ► supposed to make money money on my message [TS]

01:32:55 ◼   ► there's no money you know but if you know compared to these other chat [TS]

01:33:00 ◼   ► services like what's happened and we chat and stuff like that i think if you [TS]

01:33:04 ◼   ► broke my message i mean they can strategically there is no way to break [TS]

01:33:08 ◼   ► it out but just in terms of daily active users which is like this measurement [TS]

01:33:11 ◼   ► term that you know investors love to hear at least at the moment I message is [TS]

01:33:16 ◼   ► worth billions but there's no real way that they have a plan to make money [TS]

01:33:20 ◼   ► they're not going to start shooting ads through I message and i think i think if [TS]

01:33:24 ◼   ► anything at I message is one of the most obvious a soda-can arguments to breaking [TS]

01:33:34 ◼   ► and services out from the rest of the company and in that getting have blue [TS]

01:33:44 ◼   ► balloon is awesome [TS]

01:33:46 ◼   ► yeah and I message being part of the iphone experiences is huge here it and [TS]

01:33:54 ◼   ► and and so in one in so in his first piece band argues that people buy [TS]

01:33:59 ◼   ► iphones for the software and hardware and I agree but I message is a big thing [TS]

01:34:05 ◼   ► for me it really is i remember texting you back in the day and will cost [TS]

01:34:10 ◼   ► seventy-five cents a text right because we're across the international border [TS]

01:34:15 ◼   ► crossing international borders talking about mad men or whatever and that [TS]

01:34:20 ◼   ► racked up pretty quick and I like you but I don't like you that much [TS]

01:34:25 ◼   ► that's a dollar yeah but ya know I message fix that so that's great and [TS]

01:34:33 ◼   ► yeah sure whats app could and like a bunch of other stuff but I I think I [TS]

01:34:40 ◼   ► message is one of those things that ties closely to iOS or Apple devices did [TS]

01:34:47 ◼   ► argues for a better into creation of services with apple products the whole [TS]

01:34:54 ◼   ► thing about preferring blue bubbles to green bubbles even if you take cost [TS]

01:34:58 ◼   ► aside even if it's us to us and so you know that it's out of your jacket is [TS]

01:35:03 ◼   ► obviously subjective it bothers some people because it's sort of a if not [TS]

01:35:10 ◼   ► classism it is some sort of a try to listen yet tribal as about say tried [TS]

01:35:18 ◼   ► mentality so you same thing tribalism which it just is innately offensive or [TS]

01:35:24 ◼   ► maybe offensive is too strong a word but people object to it and for good reason [TS]

01:35:28 ◼   ► right that human beings have this natural instinct to be tribal and it's [TS]

01:35:33 ◼   ► that sort of thinking that leads if you take it to the extreme to you know [TS]

01:35:38 ◼   ► intolerance if not outright racism bigotry bigotry of what you want what [TS]

01:35:44 ◼   ► have you that that you really have to be conscious of it all the way up to the [TS]

01:35:46 ◼   ► top level and that therefore it's it's just unsavory and I get that I really do [TS]

01:35:51 ◼   ► I joke about the blue bubbles and green bubble sometimes but I get it when [TS]

01:35:54 ◼   ► there's people who really you know push back on that I do get just I [TS]

01:36:00 ◼   ► I honestly don't think that was an intentional design decision in order to [TS]

01:36:05 ◼   ► ostracise anybody know I don't know either i think that Katie's once across [TS]

01:36:08 ◼   ► some money and these ones aren't [TS]

01:36:10 ◼   ► yeah and i think it was worth knowing you know who had them [TS]

01:36:14 ◼   ► yeah but there's an interesting objective version you know not [TS]

01:36:18 ◼   ► subjective but object of advantage to it at least one which is that you know that [TS]

01:36:28 ◼   ► the emoji you send are going to look the same i just saw an article this week I [TS]

01:36:32 ◼   ► didn't link to it i don't know why i didn't do it from during fire but there [TS]

01:36:34 ◼   ► was an article that somebody did a study that showed that people interpret it [TS]

01:36:40 ◼   ► emoji from different platforms differently and that means certain code [TS]

01:36:43 ◼   ► points like you know it's like face with the you know grinning teeth and it it [TS]

01:36:50 ◼   ► has a different emotional effect you know based on the iOS version of it [TS]

01:36:54 ◼   ► compared to the Android or Twitter right and you know just subtle cues and it [TS]

01:36:59 ◼   ► just some of the each vendor that map [TS]

01:37:02 ◼   ► I don't know if everybody know is getting it like what you see on your [TS]

01:37:05 ◼   ► screen is not what somebody else sees on their screen right hand and face with [TS]

01:37:09 ◼   ► gleaming teeth on your screen may look I don't I don't know this but like let's [TS]

01:37:16 ◼   ► say like the two buck teeth on the other screen like so it looks like you're just [TS]

01:37:22 ◼   ► having us wide smile on your screen but you look like you're sending it like a [TS]

01:37:28 ◼   ► hick right of stereotypical hick in Oregon to the other person on the screen [TS]

01:37:34 ◼   ► and a when you're dealing with a particularly dense communication stream [TS]

01:37:43 ◼   ► like emoticons that becomes problematic right right users and I don't know that [TS]

01:37:48 ◼   ► maybe people don't worry about it or I do a little bit cuz i find i always you [TS]

01:37:53 ◼   ► know I mean it's a shocker given my career I really it pains me to think [TS]

01:37:58 ◼   ► that I'm not commit you know people aren't understanding what i'm trying to [TS]

01:38:02 ◼   ► communicate as clearly as possible [TS]

01:38:05 ◼   ► and have you given into murder constant chat i don't think we do it [TS]

01:38:11 ◼   ► no i-i've never did I and an emoji of save me from it i've never really was a [TS]

01:38:16 ◼   ► big user of of like the the ascii art you know smiley faces i mean IDK i'm not [TS]

01:38:21 ◼   ► going to say I never sent them but I've just found them to be too silly so I [TS]

01:38:27 ◼   ► didn't and yeah I think he used them with my I use emojis though I use emoji [TS]

01:38:32 ◼   ► now you know i'm not going to say like a teenager but I you know use it quite a [TS]

01:38:35 ◼   ► bit using more slack than anywhere else [TS]

01:38:38 ◼   ► yeah I use them on Twitter know sometimes I don't give a lot of thumbs [TS]

01:38:42 ◼   ► up on Twitter [TS]

01:38:44 ◼   ► oh yeah yeah because it's i find it to be exceptionally efficient you know [TS]

01:38:49 ◼   ► yeah that's what that's one there's one that across-the-board nobody's going to [TS]

01:38:52 ◼   ► misinterpret it doesn't matter how you drive a thumbs up or thumbs down [TS]

01:38:55 ◼   ► yeah it's kind of a sailboat like yeah I mean yeah I find it to be it's it's it's [TS]

01:39:02 ◼   ► a great addition to our you know it'sit's it said you know obviously I [TS]

01:39:06 ◼   ► thought it was silly at first consignment curmudgeon but once I opened [TS]

01:39:10 ◼   ► my mind to it I really thought this is great this is a great improvement and so [TS]

01:39:13 ◼   ► much better than ask yard you know colon going a friend its coverage [TS]

01:39:18 ◼   ► yeah i mean if I'm writing something there's no way I'm going to use it if [TS]

01:39:22 ◼   ► I'm reacting to something I feel better but I don't have ever spoken about this [TS]

01:39:27 ◼   ► in recent years i have spoken too i think you you would know you're closer [TS]

01:39:31 ◼   ► reader to know that in my writing I don't really use a lot of exclamation [TS]

01:39:34 ◼   ► marks no very yeah but in like email come on two hands an email i use them a [TS]

01:39:40 ◼   ► lot i use what i consider to be the friendly be friendly ! work and here's a [TS]

01:39:47 ◼   ► perfect example and it's a very common example is people often send me typo [TS]

01:39:54 ◼   ► reports maybe I've spelled a word wrong where I've made a little mark down here [TS]

01:39:57 ◼   ► or error in the post where I i used the wrong parentheses or I missed missed [TS]

01:40:02 ◼   ► something and you see you know like a raw URL that's clearly supposed to be [TS]

01:40:07 ◼   ► hyperlink and people will email me or Twitter be you know and say you got a [TS]

01:40:11 ◼   ► typo [TS]

01:40:11 ◼   ► well a lot of people it'sit's don't think everybody knows this it consider [TS]

01:40:17 ◼   ► correcting someone spelling or punctuation on dinner [TS]

01:40:19 ◼   ► not to be a faux pas at your you the person pointing out the error or the [TS]

01:40:23 ◼   ► jerk because you're pointing out you know I i love it i have i would rather [TS]

01:40:28 ◼   ► have a hundred people tell me about a spelling error matter and daring [TS]

01:40:31 ◼   ► fireball then to have it go on corrected because everybody thinks it's you know [TS]

01:40:36 ◼   ► either either thinks I'm sure someone else told him or I don't want to be the [TS]

01:40:40 ◼   ► jerk to tell to tell John that he has an airtight so and i try to I can't hide [TS]

01:40:45 ◼   ► sometimes sometimes and if i post and then go make coffee or go run an errand [TS]

01:40:49 ◼   ► and it's that the error is up for an hour I get a lot of them and it's almost [TS]

01:40:54 ◼   ► I'd like I can't be bothered to thank everybody but if i fix it right away i [TS]

01:40:58 ◼   ► try to thank everybody and I'll often right fixed comma thanks and put an [TS]

01:41:03 ◼   ► exclamation mark after the thanks because to me that reads as very [TS]

01:41:07 ◼   ► friendly and unambiguously what do I mean by fixed comma thanks ! to me it's [TS]

01:41:14 ◼   ► I don't know it's just maybe the way i read that ! it's fixed and a genuine [TS]

01:41:19 ◼   ► thanks [TS]

01:41:19 ◼   ► whereas if I wrote fixed comma thanks . I can see how that would be [TS]

01:41:24 ◼   ► misinterpreted naughty as yes as dry ya fiction [TS]

01:41:28 ◼   ► thanks yeah thanks for me thanks I think I think you only ever send me fixed the [TS]

01:41:34 ◼   ► additive you that I don't care it's not you know give me but I just because I [TS]

01:41:40 ◼   ► don't need it and I find and I added and and it years ago I mean I don't know how [TS]

01:41:46 ◼   ► many years ago I started doing that but it was uncomfortable with it because I'm [TS]

01:41:50 ◼   ► so uncomfortable with exclamation part more points to be to be at to me a false [TS]

01:41:56 ◼   ► sense of familiarity and friend yes you know and and to me and for example in [TS]

01:42:01 ◼   ► marketing materials almost every single ! that's used in any marketing material [TS]

01:42:07 ◼   ► is terrible it's a terrible and it means that whoever is is is Right doing a [TS]

01:42:12 ◼   ► copywriting is full of shit [TS]

01:42:14 ◼   ► it is is it is exactly why some people think the word marketing is a dirty word [TS]

01:42:18 ◼   ► and all good brands you know with good marketing either never use exclamation [TS]

01:42:24 ◼   ► marks or almost never and when they do there's some kind of good argument for [TS]

01:42:29 ◼   ► right but find me an ad from BMW with an exclamation mark and finally an ad from [TS]

01:42:33 ◼   ► apple with an exclamation mark and it's nearly impossible so anybody out there [TS]

01:42:38 ◼   ► and it's 80 and it's awful also a rookie mistake it's a mistake that someone [TS]

01:42:41 ◼   ► makes doing their own marketing when they're not used to doing marketing [TS]

01:42:44 ◼   ► because they think that their infusing the material with enthusiasm when what [TS]

01:42:49 ◼   ► they're really infusing it with his bullshit and an air of desperation and [TS]

01:42:56 ◼   ► says yeah yeah because they could say something completely accurate right but [TS]

01:43:01 ◼   ► when you put an exclamation mark it's like you're trying to really call [TS]

01:43:04 ◼   ► something out but i agree with you in casual communication and especially [TS]

01:43:10 ◼   ► these days you know it just a friendly way being like oh thanks I get it [TS]

01:43:18 ◼   ► long story single-leg mean it's it's a modifier if you reading it out line at [TS]

01:43:24 ◼   ► out loud it's a modifier on the way that that sound should be right like it goes [TS]

01:43:32 ◼   ► up [TS]

01:43:32 ◼   ► yeah well thanks oh thanks yes different 2 and as I do more podcasts as they do [TS]

01:43:39 ◼   ► priority i don't really do a lot of podcasts plural but as I podcast more [TS]

01:43:42 ◼   ► and more i have grown lazy and my writing not lazy but I've grown to [TS]

01:43:47 ◼   ► appreciate the fact that i can use inflection on a podcast in a way that [TS]

01:43:52 ◼   ► takes a lot more mental effort in prose to continue to be unambiguous about that [TS]

01:43:58 ◼   ► you know whether you're being sarcastic or not or something and when you need to [TS]

01:44:01 ◼   ► set up also a I think it doesn't help you [TS]

01:44:06 ◼   ► ok that's a bad way to start a sentence but it doesn't help you that like a lot [TS]

01:44:11 ◼   ► of year in your linked list it's like one word you know [TS]

01:44:16 ◼   ► yeah the towards basically so if you then write with gravity its red in the [TS]

01:44:24 ◼   ► same voices like these one word retorts that you use in England list [TS]

01:44:29 ◼   ► mmm yeah i've used emoji on during fireball few times to just like twice [TS]

01:44:35 ◼   ► though happy i miss that at him [TS]

01:44:38 ◼   ► I need a better way to do it what's that is that had my dad's side I need to look [TS]

01:44:43 ◼   ► into it there is some sort of i wouldn't not that i would use it frequently but [TS]

01:44:46 ◼   ► there but part of what makes me unlikely to use it frequently is the whole issue [TS]

01:44:50 ◼   ► of avenging grab the rendering and not even being able to control the long-term [TS]

01:44:55 ◼   ► rendering on apple and iOS devices soonest if and when they're ever going [TS]

01:44:58 ◼   ► to redraw some of the some of the class yeah happy face could be a swastika like [TS]

01:45:02 ◼   ► next weekend you have no control right trying to see that I just sent you a [TS]

01:45:10 ◼   ► link to this bird story on the study that shows people interpreting emoji [TS]

01:45:15 ◼   ► differently in the way it's the one with gritting teeth is a really good one [TS]

01:45:18 ◼   ► because it's on all the other platforms and I don't know exactly which what the [TS]

01:45:22 ◼   ► name of the it's grinning face with smiling eyes [TS]

01:45:26 ◼   ► yeah I and apples glyph makes it look like somebody who is man I you ciera [TS]

01:45:34 ◼   ► keith it's not a smile and it's almost like you've just said the wrong thing [TS]

01:45:38 ◼   ► right right like like the look you would give if you just mentioned somebody's [TS]

01:45:43 ◼   ► son or like their mother hey how's your mother and then like something you know [TS]

01:45:48 ◼   ► all of a sudden you remember that their mother died recently [TS]

01:45:51 ◼   ► yeah something like that that the sort of green you would make in that [TS]

01:45:55 ◼   ► situation is seething like sorry about that [TS]

01:45:58 ◼   ► whereas the microsoft samsung LG and Google ones are all unambiguously a [TS]

01:46:04 ◼   ► toothy smile you know it's all happy they're all happy perfect example and so [TS]

01:46:10 ◼   ► there is there's a value I message in the fact that you and maybe people don't [TS]

01:46:14 ◼   ► think about it consciously but you're you're you know what the other person is [TS]

01:46:18 ◼   ► going to see what weight between that mean that I message should normalize to [TS]

01:46:29 ◼   ► what is evident i personally i prefer the apple logo i think it looks at days [TS]

01:46:35 ◼   ► and it's useful it's usable anyway that and I don't think that there's an it is [TS]

01:46:38 ◼   ► useful but doesn't match the grinning face with smiling eyes [TS]

01:46:43 ◼   ► well the other descriptions emoji even but even with the other ones this study [TS]

01:46:47 ◼   ► a sign you know old people on whether they think this is a negative [TS]

01:46:51 ◼   ► connotation or positive kind [TS]

01:46:52 ◼   ► station of the glove even among the other ones there's a fairly wide variety [TS]

01:46:56 ◼   ► they're all positive and apples is- don't- that group to wait closer [TS]

01:46:59 ◼   ► together did but but there's a difference like the difference between [TS]

01:47:02 ◼   ► Microsoft and Google is over over a point on a 5-point scale i agree that [TS]

01:47:07 ◼   ► there's my god a you come on do know the Bible Atlas is a four-point difference [TS]

01:47:13 ◼   ► between Microsoft and Apple in the negative Direction no no I'm not trying [TS]

01:47:17 ◼   ► to argue that on the case of this particular one that Apple is not an [TS]

01:47:21 ◼   ► outlier and i know i'm not i'm not arguing about it but I'm saying though I [TS]

01:47:26 ◼   ► even not counting Apple it's interesting to me that the ones who agree on the [TS]

01:47:31 ◼   ► basic sense of it still have a different [TS]

01:47:34 ◼   ► oh sure I that that and I think for most of the emoji that that's probably the [TS]

01:47:40 ◼   ► case i don't think any know i think most of them there is no outlier but there's [TS]

01:47:44 ◼   ► still a agree the other thing is context a emerging very suddenly make sense [TS]

01:47:55 ◼   ► without any words random right at least context of in in a conversation so while [TS]

01:48:02 ◼   ► you could look at like madden what this tested and say okay what do you think [TS]

01:48:07 ◼   ► about each one of these emoji you could feel totally different given the [TS]

01:48:12 ◼   ► researchers surveyed online respondents on how they interpreted the emojis [TS]

01:48:16 ◼   ► sentiment rating it on a scale from negative 5 strongly negative 2 plus 5 [TS]

01:48:20 ◼   ► strongly positive i have you know what okay what I don't think I've ever uses [TS]

01:48:28 ◼   ► happen emoji I our friend of the show pocket fastest he likes to use that [TS]

01:48:34 ◼   ► emoji as I as there as a person who is eight and observer of the uncomfortable [TS]

01:48:44 ◼   ► aspects of life [TS]

01:48:45 ◼   ► yeah right the impossible is what that says right he likes to document you know [TS]

01:48:51 ◼   ► that sort of with the weird and you know on on his one foot tsunami and yeah in [TS]

01:48:57 ◼   ► personal correspondence he will often you know is if I I that's one person I [TS]

01:49:02 ◼   ► know who has sent me that [TS]

01:49:03 ◼   ► LG but goodies face with smiling eyes is the name of that emoji do you think [TS]

01:49:13 ◼   ► Apple has accurately be rendered that notion [TS]

01:49:16 ◼   ► no I think not although so I male like the but although uncomfortable and [TS]

01:49:22 ◼   ► totally into yeah i think the problem with it is that it doesn't what it's not [TS]

01:49:28 ◼   ► the eyes it's the grin because to me a grin [TS]

01:49:31 ◼   ► I mean yeah maybe i'm wrong me but I to me a grim implies the smile that grin is [TS]

01:49:36 ◼   ► a subset of a smile [TS]

01:49:37 ◼   ► whereas that is absolutely not a smile now that's the ticket [TS]

01:49:42 ◼   ► that's it drawn to you tuesday nights like this should be if like the name of [TS]

01:49:46 ◼   ► that emoji should be embarrassed to sake [TS]

01:49:49 ◼   ► yeah yeah at which I really i firmly believe is it perfectly valid emoji to [TS]

01:49:57 ◼   ► have yeah and that's a great representation of it [TS]

01:50:01 ◼   ► yeah here's the definite dictionary definition of grin [TS]

01:50:05 ◼   ► it is a smile broadly especially in an unrestored manner with the mouth open [TS]

01:50:09 ◼   ► tennis appears the example Dennis appeared grinning use cheerfully as a [TS]

01:50:16 ◼   ► noun it is a broad smile so dad definitely I think that I think that the [TS]

01:50:22 ◼   ► winning team is in accurately rendered but now it's too late or is it I don't [TS]

01:50:27 ◼   ► know because if they change it then all sorts of things that all sorts of ways [TS]

01:50:32 ◼   ► that it's already been used are changed meaning until you talkin to and that's [TS]

01:50:39 ◼   ► the problem right emoji are words that when i send them to you change meaning [TS]

01:50:45 ◼   ► for the show's really I've I love her like I love it but its northern it says [TS]

01:50:52 ◼   ► this is nowhere near the list and stuff we're getting into the lung linguistics [TS]

01:50:55 ◼   ► i love it [TS]

01:50:56 ◼   ► I yeah and that is sort of the there is an advantage there to the old-school [TS]

01:51:01 ◼   ► ascii emoticon artwork where it's a little bit a little bit more defined [TS]

01:51:06 ◼   ► right like your semicolon might look different than my semicolon but I still [TS]

01:51:11 ◼   ► yeah i know stupid Winky when I see it right [TS]

01:51:16 ◼   ► a-and leaving now we got here a little so well for you . my message and [TS]

01:51:27 ◼   ► services and whether they should be broken apart and so we get asked i also [TS]

01:51:31 ◼   ► wonder I here at that one specifically morning and as I and I as I wonder that [TS]

01:51:41 ◼   ► the that's actually that the one we're talking about i'm looking at the study [TS]

01:51:46 ◼   ► now I should that I'll link to this study in in the show notes i promise i'm [TS]

01:51:50 ◼   ► copying basing now they have examples of the ones with the biggest Delta's though [TS]

01:51:55 ◼   ► gritting teeth one is not only his apple an outlier as the emoji that particular [TS]

01:52:00 ◼   ► the the distance from which that it there's no other emoji that they studied [TS]

01:52:05 ◼   ► that has a spread like that it just means something different [TS]

01:52:09 ◼   ► yeah it's actually and I think concentrating on that one in particular [TS]

01:52:12 ◼   ► actually you lose the general context of the study which is that even with the [TS]

01:52:17 ◼   ► ones where they're generally all compliant with the description people [TS]

01:52:21 ◼   ► have a different interpretation of of what they mean [TS]

01:52:25 ◼   ► intern at least the sentiment of being positive and right which i think is a [TS]

01:52:28 ◼   ► super interesting . you know that I think the verge and it's not a knock but [TS]

01:52:36 ◼   ► you know whatever they picked the most illustrative . because it's easier to [TS]

01:52:40 ◼   ► write about [TS]

01:52:41 ◼   ► well yeah I mean look at that you know that's clearly an outlier and that you [TS]

01:52:47 ◼   ► know makes you want to kind of learn more about it so it's really nice and [TS]

01:52:51 ◼   ► knock on them but it's like it really illustrates it look people on different [TS]

01:52:55 ◼   ► platforms will see different things [TS]

01:52:57 ◼   ► yeah Ben Thompson's but if he's listening if he does listen to the show [TS]

01:53:01 ◼   ► he's probably screaming at us that we're not talking about stickers which has [TS]

01:53:05 ◼   ► been a big ben's a big fan and study or of the chat services the ones that are [TS]

01:53:09 ◼   ► cross-platform like what's happened wechat those things have these things [TS]

01:53:15 ◼   ► called stickers which are like emoji but their custom to the service and it's [TS]

01:53:20 ◼   ► just sending an image like an emoji and you know maybe around the holiday [TS]

01:53:25 ◼   ► they'll come out with a custom a whole set of them about Christmas so instead [TS]

01:53:28 ◼   ► of just like an emoji [TS]

01:53:29 ◼   ► you've got like Santa Claus on Christmas tree you could have a whole set of [TS]

01:53:32 ◼   ► stickers all about christmas or or whatever or the world how is so down on [TS]

01:53:36 ◼   ► that but you know what would it wouldn't you know that i talked to more slack and [TS]

01:53:46 ◼   ► sometimes I don't even care that it actually respond to him but I'll do one [TS]

01:53:50 ◼   ► of those reaction emoji exactly and i have been you kind of got me on this [TS]

01:53:55 ◼   ► sticker stuff so I don't know I you know the more i talk about it with you and [TS]

01:54:05 ◼   ► more I'm starting to disagree with him I want to scream the end I should get a [TS]

01:54:09 ◼   ► money shot because he sees you he won't he's never done the show you has he [TS]

01:54:14 ◼   ► yeah we talked about it is i'm pretty sure he's gonna make sure let me look at [TS]

01:54:20 ◼   ► the archives it's gonna bet it's like three times at least in all right ten [TS]

01:54:34 ◼   ► times and it's now maybe five maybe I just search for Thompson on the page and [TS]

01:54:41 ◼   ► it shows up it'll show up twice for each one because I mention them in the title [TS]

01:54:45 ◼   ► and so yeah it took you know what he's never doing it again didn't know tell [TS]

01:54:52 ◼   ► you that right now didn't actually forget he's been on twice since august [TS]

01:54:55 ◼   ► last year and is probably more often than i am probably and four times in the [TS]

01:55:01 ◼   ► last year [TS]

01:55:03 ◼   ► what about Apple music is an apple music already sort of a standalone out man [TS]

01:55:12 ◼   ► and they they have to sort of do profit and loss on that I mean they know how [TS]

01:55:17 ◼   ► many subscribers they are and I know how much they're paying you know whether [TS]

01:55:21 ◼   ► they actually count it and in and hold it accountable and have goals for it and [TS]

01:55:26 ◼   ► you're getting fired if you don't meet this the way some people would some [TS]

01:55:30 ◼   ► companies winner divisions surely they know exactly how much Apple music is [TS]

01:55:35 ◼   ► making and how much it's costing and therefore they know whether it's [TS]

01:55:38 ◼   ► profitable or not and they know what the Delta is month-to-month I mean and we [TS]

01:55:43 ◼   ► know it because they leak things like the number of customers you know [TS]

01:55:47 ◼   ► subscribers it's very very committed hey I honestly it's like so bad and getting [TS]

01:55:54 ◼   ► getting back to the press tags a benz basic argument is that whatever gets [TS]

01:55:59 ◼   ► measured gets fixed [TS]

01:56:01 ◼   ► there's no way they don't know if Apple music is making losing money and it's [TS]

01:56:08 ◼   ► not that they say that they don't have profit and loss in the company is that [TS]

01:56:15 ◼   ► they be port one level of profit and loss right which is a very different [TS]

01:56:20 ◼   ► thing I don't think that means internally that they don't worry about [TS]

01:56:25 ◼   ► this kind of stuff and I message right i don't think that so they expanded what I [TS]

01:56:32 ◼   ► cloud drive storage [TS]

01:56:34 ◼   ► yes there's no way they did that without considering profit/loss no way [TS]

01:56:37 ◼   ► well of course not because they charge for that right you know is that clearly [TS]

01:56:42 ◼   ► they've got some numbers [TS]

01:56:44 ◼   ► yeah and in fact I'm telling the more talk about it the more I it's a great [TS]

01:56:48 ◼   ► piece but I still it the more i talk about it the more I think I disagree [TS]

01:56:52 ◼   ► that that's a guide totally agree that he has he's identified a problem [TS]

01:56:57 ◼   ► I don't think though we as proposed solution is right because to me [TS]

01:57:01 ◼   ► iCloud Drive another example where it they don't do profit and loss across you [TS]

01:57:06 ◼   ► know the way other companies do but you would never guess that by the way they [TS]

01:57:10 ◼   ► charge for iCloud storage right for based on the way that that they charge [TS]

01:57:15 ◼   ► for iCloud storage you would think the opposite you would think this is a [TS]

01:57:18 ◼   ► company where somebody in the iCloud division has a gun to their head that [TS]

01:57:22 ◼   ► they're supposed to make a lot of money on this [TS]

01:57:24 ◼   ► yeah because they charge more than anybody [TS]

01:57:28 ◼   ► yeah boy for why penny and there's another one to iCloud drive to me works [TS]

01:57:35 ◼   ► amazingly well I honestly in my experience and I know somebody out there [TS]

01:57:40 ◼   ► is going to disagree and think that i'm smoking Apple dope or something but I i [TS]

01:57:45 ◼   ► find that it is up to dropbox quality which is invisible that I never if i'm [TS]

01:57:52 ◼   ► editing you know apps that I know use that use iCloud Drive like you have a [TS]

01:57:57 ◼   ► couple of important number spreadsheet at this point when I save stuff in [TS]

01:58:03 ◼   ► numbers [TS]

01:58:03 ◼   ► I know that it's there and I can go to a different mac or a different device and [TS]

01:58:07 ◼   ► it's going to be there [TS]

01:58:08 ◼   ► it's just there that's not it i still use dropbox because i use it in [TS]

01:58:12 ◼   ► different ways and drop boxes more is a lot easier to use as a sort of junk [TS]

01:58:16 ◼   ► drawer where you just put anything and everything and have it go everywhere and [TS]

01:58:20 ◼   ► iCloud drive to me still works best in the mindset of hey the documents for [TS]

01:58:27 ◼   ► numbers you go two numbers you know it's not really i don't really even though [TS]

01:58:30 ◼   ► you can put arbitrary files in there your iCloud Drive now i still use [TS]

01:58:34 ◼   ► dropbox for that but just in terms of having the sink work just invisibly [TS]

01:58:38 ◼   ► instant nearly instantaneously it's up there i think they get a bad rap for for [TS]

01:58:44 ◼   ► problems that they had in the past and people either every aren't giving it a [TS]

01:58:48 ◼   ► fair look in with open eyes now or it there just to set your mindset that [TS]

01:58:54 ◼   ► Apple's you know that anything related iCloud sucks but what they charge for it [TS]

01:58:59 ◼   ► i think is creates almost crazy compared to what other people charged for storage [TS]

01:59:03 ◼   ► I think the story later XO opened at the functionality seems to be really pretty [TS]

01:59:09 ◼   ► solid at this point I just [TS]

01:59:16 ◼   ► believe that they could charge a lot less than they should and if anything [TS]

01:59:20 ◼   ► they should be because you know it's really only meant to be used on [TS]

01:59:23 ◼   ► expensive Apple devices that have high profit margins it seems to me like [TS]

01:59:27 ◼   ► iCloud Drive storage per gigabyte ought to be less than the competition not more [TS]

01:59:32 ◼   ► than the competition because like Dropbox just to name one example all the [TS]

01:59:36 ◼   ► money they're making is for people paying for dropbox storage they don't [TS]

01:59:39 ◼   ► sell eight-hundred-dollar cell phones that with forty percent profit margins [TS]

01:59:43 ◼   ► that they can get other revenue from all they have is the storage where is this [TS]

01:59:47 ◼   ► is just one little thing so there's an example where I don't know I don't know [TS]

01:59:51 ◼   ► how do anything they can make money [TS]

01:59:55 ◼   ► hi guys i don't disagree with you but I mean you know they [TS]

01:59:55 ◼   ► hi guys i don't disagree with you but I mean you know they [TS]

02:00:00 ◼   ► run the scenarios and they make I'm writing you say yeah and that example [TS]

02:00:06 ◼   ► can make money and they've landed i projected scenarios and right and most [TS]

02:00:10 ◼   ► and i often run it you know for some reason multan particular and I when he's [TS]

02:00:13 ◼   ► on the show always run into this where we end up talking ourselves into [TS]

02:00:16 ◼   ► spending Tim Cook's money you know when I route totally realize how she's in [TS]

02:00:20 ◼   ► easy and awesome thing to do because it's fun right but i totally realized [TS]

02:00:24 ◼   ► that the way you become the world's most profitable company is that you you know [TS]

02:00:30 ◼   ► cut your losses and you know you sweat the details make money you don't need [TS]

02:00:35 ◼   ► this money away here in there and that all sorts of ideas that we have involve [TS]

02:00:39 ◼   ► Apple missing a little extra money away here and there and then you know it's a [TS]

02:00:43 ◼   ► little way here in there and then all of a sudden you not the world's most [TS]

02:00:45 ◼   ► profitable company [TS]

02:00:46 ◼   ► well because ultimately so the argument is that they should make iCloud storage [TS]

02:00:52 ◼   ► cheaper despite the fact that we don't know how many like what the percentages [TS]

02:01:00 ◼   ► of iOS device owners or Apple device honors heard that subscribe to it they [TS]

02:01:07 ◼   ► should make it cheaper in order to make them happier [TS]

02:01:10 ◼   ► yeah well but but we've already got a cust sat number of like 98 right [TS]

02:01:18 ◼   ► like maybe when that drops to like 89 maybe that's when you like i'm good i [TS]

02:01:23 ◼   ► iose stuff and I almost think that Apple should know better than to trust the [TS]

02:01:27 ◼   ► customer set because people might do to and nada actually think they do people [TS]

02:01:32 ◼   ► maybe don't have high enough expectations yet they don't expect to [TS]

02:01:35 ◼   ► have infinite storage online and so therefore they don't judge apple by that [TS]

02:01:39 ◼   ► and therefore the USA I'm completely satisfied with my iphone even though [TS]

02:01:43 ◼   ► they only have five gigabytes of storage in their iCloud account [TS]

02:01:46 ◼   ► whereas I think Apple knows better than that and it even cut it is considered by [TS]

02:01:49 ◼   ► hour ago story about being appalled when the guys just threw a handful of card [TS]

02:01:54 ◼   ► catalogs some paneer like data lost a loss I I just breaks my heart knowing [TS]

02:01:58 ◼   ► that there are people who don't can't put their entire photo library in their [TS]

02:02:02 ◼   ► iCloud account because there are they only take the free iCloud storage like I [TS]

02:02:07 ◼   ► really think that it i don't want to quite say there's a moral obligation but [TS]

02:02:12 ◼   ► I'm [TS]

02:02:13 ◼   ► I'm spectrum it is on some spectrum being in favor of avoiding data loss at [TS]

02:02:17 ◼   ► all costs is a moral issue and and I really wish that more and more people [TS]

02:02:21 ◼   ► would be able to see you know reasonably serve there and save their entire photo [TS]

02:02:26 ◼   ► and video library to their iCloud account because otherwise if they lose [TS]

02:02:30 ◼   ► or break their phone they might lose lose photos and videos perfectly i don't [TS]

02:02:36 ◼   ► disagree with you about that I don't know what that costs I don't know but I [TS]

02:02:46 ◼   ► mean it that there's always local backup so you know everyone you can I know I [TS]

02:02:52 ◼   ► know but not not to get all capitalist on it because i'm canadian so we should [TS]

02:03:02 ◼   ► probably just nationalize every company and but but there doesn't the fact [TS]

02:03:14 ◼   ► they can make money on it and you know like if people need this kind of [TS]

02:03:21 ◼   ► protection [TS]

02:03:22 ◼   ► it's effectively insurance right yeah [TS]

02:03:25 ◼   ► can a floppy any in the insurance via my business I i think the best thing that [TS]