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The Talk Show

152: ‘The Greatest Mic Drop I’ve Ever Seen’, With Special Guest Guy English

 

00:00:00   do it with your prince fan i can't say that i was i I've obviously you know as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/0">TS</a>]

00:00:05   someone who grew up in the eighties it was impossible to miss him and I watch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5">TS</a>]

00:00:08   tons of MTV and so all of the songs from the eighties are totally ingrained in my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8">TS</a>]

00:00:13   head because I put this watch them just all the time because I would you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/13">TS</a>]

00:00:17   watch them to be all the time I like them a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/17">TS</a>]

00:00:20   I cannot say i was particularly a fan I came around to it later because like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/20">TS</a>]

00:00:24   I was more of a I was putting in a pot category bit more we should think it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/24">TS</a>]

00:00:30   fair to say that kind of probably like more rapidly can again but I mean after [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/30">TS</a>]

00:00:36   I got out of that phase of like you know when you still like that when your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/36">TS</a>]

00:00:41   teenager he tend to delete and hit things until it good and bad lot more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/41">TS</a>]

00:00:44   but yea once i got into sort of appreciating what man he's immensely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/44">TS</a>]

00:00:50   talented and he said so much cultural impacts in terms of other music another [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/50">TS</a>]

00:00:54   just the band's that's just the way to behave it's like he's amazing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/54">TS</a>]

00:00:59   yeah I tweeted something last night which day was a tribute was from that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/59">TS</a>]

00:01:02   when George Harrison died and his son had like a tribute and there and print [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/62">TS</a>]

00:01:08   plate and and didn't even sing I was like Tom Petty and forget who the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/68">TS</a>]

00:01:12   somebody else he had no chance and asante yeah man and petty did most of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/72">TS</a>]

00:01:18   the lyrics but then prints came up with this guitar solo at the end and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/78">TS</a>]

00:01:24   just it's just like jaw-droppingly good you had always heard i know i'm not you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/84">TS</a>]

00:01:29   know in some people on Twitter all the most people just retweeted because it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/89">TS</a>]

00:01:32   an amazing performance and it's just I mean it's just it's a great song [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/92">TS</a>]

00:01:35   well played and it's just amazing any and then it's even better because at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/95">TS</a>]

00:01:39   end eid Prince knows he nailed it and he just nonchalantly tosses his guitar up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/99">TS</a>]

00:01:44   in the air and it never comes down wearable what the hell happened to his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/104">TS</a>]

00:01:48   guitar and just being on a wire the whole time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/108">TS</a>]

00:01:50   daddy just Saunders off states like it's like sections for this interesting i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/110">TS</a>]

00:01:54   seen performing he is incredible i realize it's a guitar not a microphone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/114">TS</a>]

00:01:58   but effectively is the greatest mic drop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/118">TS</a>]

00:02:01   I've ever so I mean in addition to being a great song in the great performance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/121">TS</a>]

00:02:04   yeah it is literally the best mic drop I've ever seen because it doesn't come [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/124">TS</a>]

00:02:07   on it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/127">TS</a>]

00:02:09   yeah and he walks out like Jimi Hendrix style oh but you're not accustomed to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/129">TS</a>]

00:02:13   hearing necessarily and songs but he can't do it you don't mind me saying I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/133">TS</a>]

00:02:18   just in my back pocket i could be the next romantics but yeah it's justin yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/138">TS</a>]

00:02:22   I play a lot of functions and and then never had a couple people on Twitter who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/142">TS</a>]

00:02:25   are like that's how can you you know to me how can you not know the princes want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/145">TS</a>]

00:02:29   to like the top 20 guitarists of all time maybe like top 10 and I didn't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/149">TS</a>]

00:02:34   I knew he was great i know i knew we could play a bunch of instruments I knew [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/154">TS</a>]

00:02:37   he was very talented musician and including the guitar I knew that because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/157">TS</a>]

00:02:40   people told me but I didn't know it in the way you really know it when you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/160">TS</a>]

00:02:43   actually see it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/163">TS</a>]

00:02:45   yeah and I realized then that all of those guitar solos on all of princes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/165">TS</a>]

00:02:48   songs that are so amazing for him and I didn't know that before I get a new the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/168">TS</a>]

00:02:52   ball after the half of the other instruments that are being right and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/172">TS</a>]

00:02:55   also have right now that he's just doing it all and it in a way that's just you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/175">TS</a>]

00:03:01   know almost impossible to comprehend i think one thing did I could probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/181">TS</a>]

00:03:05   convince you to appreciate it but a lot is that everyone had to change his name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/185">TS</a>]

00:03:10   he had somebody and yeah so the record label basically had him by the balls for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/190">TS</a>]

00:03:16   producing albums under the name Prince again like his deal so they exclude and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/196">TS</a>]

00:03:22   the in the ultimate fuck you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/202">TS</a>]

00:03:25   he's like I'm gonna change my name to dis older I remember when he changed his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/205">TS</a>]

00:03:29   name to the character I didn't realize that it was it was a way out of his my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/209">TS</a>]

00:03:32   god it was 100% whey out of its like screw you like you're not owning my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/212">TS</a>]

00:03:37   Master's like my music I'm taking it and you're not only my name is i'm going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/217">TS</a>]

00:03:41   change my name to something ridiculous and he never bothered explaining to that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/221">TS</a>]

00:03:45   it's not like you went on other shows and just told people that look I'm doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/225">TS</a>]

00:03:49   that I'm going to keep focusing on my work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/229">TS</a>]

00:03:52   same reason why doesn't want all the youtube stuff is he wants to basically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/232">TS</a>]

00:03:55   be able to own all the distribution [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/235">TS</a>]

00:03:57   yeah yeah yeahs service what he thinks artist deserve to be paid and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/237">TS</a>]

00:04:00   absolutely have been aware of his stance on that last night I mean like everybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/240">TS</a>]

00:04:05   half the people in the Western world last night you know i mean i started let [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/245">TS</a>]

00:04:11   you know when to listen to perseverance to and not on Apple music I knew that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/251">TS</a>]

00:04:15   you know first thing i tried in and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/255">TS</a>]

00:04:18   I instantly thought while I I guess I knew that actually you know because he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/258">TS</a>]

00:04:22   not into it so we just started buying a bunch of stuff from itunes it was a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/262">TS</a>]

00:04:27   of fun [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/267">TS</a>]

00:04:27   good you know I i post the link today on during farber and if you saw it but a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/267">TS</a>]

00:04:31   just just like a random screenshot from a movie [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/271">TS</a>]

00:04:37   the Prince made 1990 called graffiti bridge where he played like him you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/277">TS</a>]

00:04:41   like a sort of thinly veiled version of himself like a young songwriter and in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/281">TS</a>]

00:04:46   1990 the character he was you know composing a song on like a little mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/286">TS</a>]

00:04:51   and smack it and and of course it was no end and it was totally legit wasn't like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/291">TS</a>]

00:04:55   a phony phony phony fake you I was like a real app from the day of you know like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/295">TS</a>]

00:05:02   it like maybe tracking yet maybe try to connect trackers and ya still like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/302">TS</a>]

00:05:05   actual screen shot in the in the movie is actually like an actual song that he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/305">TS</a>]

00:05:11   wrote it was like so you got like a little look at at his Prince's own like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/311">TS</a>]

00:05:16   you know working said I workflow and right track stuff with a mac like warhol [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/316">TS</a>]

00:05:24   drying and right right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/324">TS</a>]

00:05:26   sketching on mac paint right little nine inch screen tiny god what would have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/326">TS</a>]

00:05:33   been if it was an SE I think that was like that the guy who wrote the blog [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/333">TS</a>]

00:05:36   post is trying to figure out he nailed it down it was either an SEO and sem 30 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/336">TS</a>]

00:05:40   yeah the su-30 didn't come out until like late in the year before the movie [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/340">TS</a>]

00:05:44   was made us so there's I think there's a much better chance that it was just an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/344">TS</a>]

00:05:47   SE so that would have been just 68 68,000 chip I think I don't know that if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/347">TS</a>]

00:05:54   they had a 6820 but it wasn't until the SES 60 80 30 that the mac really got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/354">TS</a>]

00:06:01   fast that was a pretty slow machine you don't know you got it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/361">TS</a>]

00:06:05   it says a lot about is forward-looking oh absolutely absolutely notice that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/365">TS</a>]

00:06:11   he's like look I'm gonna try this crazy thing that probably sounded tinny and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/371">TS</a>]

00:06:15   kind of crappy to and compared to all the other options he had but he was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/375">TS</a>]

00:06:18   fascinated enough to like well and I think I was cool when I would learn how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/378">TS</a>]

00:06:22   to do it yeah I'm sure the final output you know maybe didn't come right off the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/382">TS</a>]

00:06:25   mac you know a lot of ways because you know I played a lot of actual analog [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/385">TS</a>]

00:06:28   instruments but maybe to get that the composition [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/388">TS</a>]

00:06:31   right yeah it's that that power of digital editing and the way that you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/391">TS</a>]

00:06:37   you can move stuff i mean we take it for granted to there and kick you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/397">TS</a>]

00:06:42   people who've grown up and an all-digital world head you know you did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/402">TS</a>]

00:06:47   I could see why they take it for granted big but you know when you learn to be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/407">TS</a>]

00:06:52   writer or you know like it like I did where we didn't have word processors are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/412">TS</a>]

00:06:57   computers at our disposal all the time and I used to actually I'm high school I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/417">TS</a>]

00:07:02   used an actual use a typewriter to write stuff and he's like when you think about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/422">TS</a>]

00:07:05   like when you're halfway through a thing and you really want to move a paragraph [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/425">TS</a>]

00:07:11   or even just take out a set if you realize you've just duplicated it's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/431">TS</a>]

00:07:15   same sentence twice something that you wrote like the page before and it's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/435">TS</a>]

00:07:20   you either have to reach retype the whole page or just or just live with it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/440">TS</a>]

00:07:24   you know you start making decisions based on convenience rather than what it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/444">TS</a>]

00:07:29   should be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/449">TS</a>]

00:07:30   craft right i mean you really was if you wanted to get it do anywhere near a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/450">TS</a>]

00:07:35   halfway decent job it was almost impossible not to type the whole thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/455">TS</a>]

00:07:38   twice because there's how could you not make some sort of editing decision you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/458">TS</a>]

00:07:44   know where you go through and then retype it and you would literally have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/464">TS</a>]

00:07:47   to retype that the thing I mean I'm sure music you know it was the same way in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/467">TS</a>]

00:07:50   lot of ways in that digital editing the same way that it's revolutionized you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/470">TS</a>]

00:07:55   know word processing same way from music I'm sure yeah so is definitely changing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/475">TS</a>]

00:08:01   the tempo like there is a bit there's almost there dimension to music that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/481">TS</a>]

00:08:07   doesn't necessarily happen in in writing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/487">TS</a>]

00:08:10   yeah totally yeah I don't know that what I remember from those days the early [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/490">TS</a>]

00:08:15   days of mac around that time is yes yes then we did we were constantly running [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/495">TS</a>]

00:08:20   up against every single one of the limits of the machines did I mean just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/500">TS</a>]

00:08:25   stacks full of floppy disks all stuffed to within a few bites of being full a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/505">TS</a>]

00:08:31   hard drive that was completely full if you go back even just a few more years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/511">TS</a>]

00:08:35   didn't even have a hard drive everything you got the floppy drive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/515">TS</a>]

00:08:38   severely ram constrained I mean that most of those devices a lot of those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/518">TS</a>]

00:08:43   early max only had and a gigabyte or two gigabytes my mac LLC in 1991 it for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/523">TS</a>]

00:08:51   whopping four get are not gigabytes Megan thank you for making it is it yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/531">TS</a>]

00:08:55   four megabytes of RAM ah so you're ram constrained storage constrained the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/535">TS</a>]

00:09:01   storage was incredibly slow the hard drives slow the floppies were so slow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/541">TS</a>]

00:09:05   you could hear them making the reads and writes yeah I guess you could hear the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/545">TS</a>]

00:09:10   hard drives do but yeah the floor you find it comforting did yeah definitely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/550">TS</a>]

00:09:14   could you knew someone was working it was it was comforting away didn't think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/554">TS</a>]

00:09:19   about it until it went away your and then you realize that if you think that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/559">TS</a>]

00:09:26   something might be going wrong you don't have that comfort like at least back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/566">TS</a>]

00:09:30   then it's like if you thought something was going wrong like like a crash like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/570">TS</a>]

00:09:33   maybe our that missed you know the system is locking up but you could still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/573">TS</a>]

00:09:37   hear the thing you were hoping was being saved being written to you had hoped [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/577">TS</a>]

00:09:42   that ok at least it's still writing to the disk or if it locked up and all you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/582">TS</a>]

00:09:46   could hear it like it were and then clicking noise right there were certain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/586">TS</a>]

00:09:49   oh it's you could definitely you did a big part of the diagnosis of any problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/589">TS</a>]

00:09:54   back then was one of a kind of Smith what kind of noise mechanical robot is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/594">TS</a>]

00:09:59   fine apart right is ever certain if it was perfectly repetitious then that's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/599">TS</a>]

00:10:06   bad sign [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/606">TS</a>]

00:10:07   yes that's like the same thing is going ok yes you could hear sometimes you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/607">TS</a>]

00:10:11   hear it when a program it wedged itself into an infinite loop and huh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/611">TS</a>]

00:10:15   and that was bad but like there's a certain randomness to the sounds of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/615">TS</a>]

00:10:20   a file being written that it wasn't quite repetitious that that was soothing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/620">TS</a>]

00:10:25   you seeking to the different sectors so here there there was it was more of an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/625">TS</a>]

00:10:29   analog relationship it was fundamentally a digital machine but there was you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/629">TS</a>]

00:10:34   that the actual spinning disk and and the physicality of the ones and zeros [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/634">TS</a>]

00:10:41   being written to the disc gave it its certain a genuinely analog dimension [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/641">TS</a>]

00:10:46   that that came across in your relationship with it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/646">TS</a>]

00:10:48   I feel like that's probably it I don't drive so correct me but like a manual vs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/648">TS</a>]

00:10:54   automatic yeah i think just like you're looking very aware of the Machine and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/654">TS</a>]

00:10:58   one case in the other case you kind of device from a little bit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/658">TS</a>]

00:11:01   well and I think there's also a if you compared to driving and I'm not really a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/661">TS</a>]

00:11:06   car guy but i do drive but i think there's also a almost undisputedly a a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/666">TS</a>]

00:11:13   comparison to as as decades go on card our cars are more and more abstract in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/673">TS</a>]

00:11:21   terms of just how much isolation areas from the noise outside the shock [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/681">TS</a>]

00:11:26   absorption and older cars you really feel the road and you feel it's it's you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/686">TS</a>]

00:11:32   just so much less removed I mean it's almost shocking sometimes when you look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/692">TS</a>]

00:11:35   at a car from the sixties or seventies let them further like how thin the doors [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/695">TS</a>]

00:11:40   are you know it's good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/700">TS</a>]

00:11:42   everything was a lot more thinner and you just felt the road more and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/702">TS</a>]

00:11:46   more pleasing I think overall I mean obviously consumer money talks that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/706">TS</a>]

00:11:50   more pleasing to have it abstracted but in a way as the driver you're you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/710">TS</a>]

00:11:54   removed from the the the just the feel of the road yeah did you show me a video [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/714">TS</a>]

00:12:03   do that Adam beneficiated with you it's like an old 1950's Buick crashing until [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/723">TS</a>]

00:12:07   I don't know what like a modern smoker or something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/727">TS</a>]

00:12:10   now I don't think so and the Buick just gets destroy their word it was like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/730">TS</a>]

00:12:17   little guy just it's so much better engineer now it's it's absolutely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/737">TS</a>]

00:12:21   amazing the differences that they've made in the ability that's to survive a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/741">TS</a>]

00:12:28   crash together they call it the passing to keep that to maintain the integrity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/748">TS</a>]

00:12:31   of the passenger cabin and and sacrifice the entire rest of the car it's it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/751">TS</a>]

00:12:35   just unbelievable words in the old days the coal car would just collapse like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/755">TS</a>]

00:12:39   can of coke [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/759">TS</a>]

00:12:39   yes kinda second if it really engine block Chevrolet going into your chest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/759">TS</a>]

00:12:44   it's sickening to because you think like those old-time cars the old cars were so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/764">TS</a>]

00:12:48   heavy that they would be safer but they just weren't because the structure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/768">TS</a>]

00:12:51   didn't you know the structural integrity just wasn't there but it really is like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/771">TS</a>]

00:12:55   it's just stepping on an empty aluminum can it's just the whole thing just yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/775">TS</a>]

00:12:59   collapse into it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/779">TS</a>]

00:13:00   often it huh no designed for different goals ok the ATP guys are like shaking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/780">TS</a>]

00:13:06   their fists this now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/786">TS</a>]

00:13:07   oh i don't think so i think Syracuse is probably happy about the whole time Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/787">TS</a>]

00:13:10   talk and me they had a good segment recently where they were talking I guess [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/790">TS</a>]

00:13:14   it because it was sort of one of the recent episodes was the day it's for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/794">TS</a>]

00:13:18   apples 40th anniversary let ya look back at our first max and and I couldn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/798">TS</a>]

00:13:23   listen to get Marky know it's awful i honestly I consider myself a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/803">TS</a>]

00:13:29   johnny-come-lately you are given temperature and wraps guy right yeah so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/809">TS</a>]

00:13:35   I you know anything after that Mikey come on kids [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/815">TS</a>]

00:13:40   exactly and no that was one of those times where syracuse it was really i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/820">TS</a>]

00:13:44   dunno it just felt like he was creepily picking the thoughts out of my brain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/824">TS</a>]

00:13:50   because it was he was i he actually started using a magnet few years before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/830">TS</a>]

00:13:54   me even though he's a few years younger than me just because my school my high [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/834">TS</a>]

00:13:58   school only had one mac and when I the longer i went i had like it was almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/838">TS</a>]

00:14:03   like that classes for just like two or three of us and in programming as like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/843">TS</a>]

00:14:09   my last two years of high school there weren't it was only like two or three [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/849">TS</a>]

00:14:11   other kids in the class and i wanted i wanted a color display so I used that to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/851">TS</a>]

00:14:16   GS how was very act [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/856">TS</a>]

00:14:20   thank you to meet their trusty well there's only one mac and end it was you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/860">TS</a>]

00:14:24   know and I didn't want to you know i guess i could have argued for equal time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/864">TS</a>]

00:14:27   on it was a member of the classroom named Elliot but I was like we're trying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/867">TS</a>]

00:14:34   to decide which one of us would maybe use the mac and who you know and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/874">TS</a>]

00:14:37   there were a bunch of two TS in a lab that the you know we could choose from I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/877">TS</a>]

00:14:41   guess if neither of us wanted to use the mac we could both use the two gs but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/881">TS</a>]

00:14:45   he's you know he seemed more interested in the maghuin i was i was fined let him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/885">TS</a>]

00:14:48   have it and I played with it a little and i remember playing with especially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/888">TS</a>]

00:14:52   with mac right and mac paint macpaint in particular and mac draw but even back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/892">TS</a>]

00:15:00   then with mac draw even in 1989-90 i was instantly baffled by bezier curves but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/900">TS</a>]

00:15:07   if L yeah i loved and understood what it meant i understood [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/907">TS</a>]

00:15:11   it was a vector graphic could offer and I was fascinated but damned if I could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/911">TS</a>]

00:15:17   it navigate the interface but Mac Manuel control points here like to do so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/917">TS</a>]

00:15:24   learned the mat and I say that knowing the math and yeah do it but it's still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/924">TS</a>]

00:15:27   like good it's unintuitive yeah it's very unintuitive and and everything I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/927">TS</a>]

00:15:32   learned about the mac was just completely into it remember to do i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/932">TS</a>]

00:15:36   didn't i didn't like the mac is for weight so i started an apple to plus [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/936">TS</a>]

00:15:41   love the Apple 2 GS then got into pcs and for whatever reason because i was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/941">TS</a>]

00:15:51   stubborn kid I was like I didn't like the mac floppy disk i just it was right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/951">TS</a>]

00:15:58   because it had that latch you don't like three-and-a-half inch blog is good just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/958">TS</a>]

00:16:02   found it an elegant and i found that you liked the five and a quarter ones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/962">TS</a>]

00:16:06   because you can flip them over and use a whole bunch and then you can get a whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/966">TS</a>]

00:16:09   second side you could do that with the with the plastic ones too but it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/969">TS</a>]

00:16:12   obviously harder and harder to make the whole yeah yeah it was just so it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/972">TS</a>]

00:16:18   done but it was like a five year phase of my life with enemy and I was getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/978">TS</a>]

00:16:22   into like hardcore until assembly programming and stuff at the time but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/982">TS</a>]

00:16:28   then i did a drafting class in high school because they like drawing turns [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/988">TS</a>]

00:16:34   out not the same thing but one of the things we have to do is work on a mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/994">TS</a>]

00:16:38   and mac draw to change my mind and very soon after day I mean this offer was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/998">TS</a>]

00:16:45   $MONEY billion get tired loved it was such a new different experience [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1005">TS</a>]

00:16:51   it's so funny to I know and I Casey even mention it because cases to way too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1011">TS</a>]

00:16:57   young but he was baffled by the fact that the three-and-a-half inch ones for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1017">TS</a>]

00:17:01   still called floppies even though there was nothing sloppy about them because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1021">TS</a>]

00:17:04   they were in my shell it is it's just one of those stupid names because it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1024">TS</a>]

00:17:09   what they did a long story short the there used to be Aiden's floppies really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1029">TS</a>]

00:17:13   clear back but an angry dates my time but then like in the Apple to hear and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1033">TS</a>]

00:17:17   what most of us in the eighties new with the five maybe as I bet your parents [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1037">TS</a>]

00:17:22   have like a stack of five and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1042">TS</a>]

00:17:23   strange floppies that your ya want me possibly even five and a quarter inches [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1043">TS</a>]

00:17:27   tall because i don't have a computer in the house so who really yeah I've told [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1047">TS</a>]

00:17:32   this story but only have okay and my parents refused to buy can make it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1052">TS</a>]

00:17:36   better this is why you made that is why your career and technology went nowhere [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1056">TS</a>]

00:17:40   all a lot of my friends were getting computers my friend Joey had an apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1060">TS</a>]

00:17:44   apple 2e which I could deeply coveted because I I from the early days on could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1064">TS</a>]

00:17:50   I perceived that Apple's computers were superior build quality and were made [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1070">TS</a>]

00:17:55   with that and I to design that the others weren't but i would have taken [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1075">TS</a>]

00:18:00   any of them ever taken a Commodore Everett today I would have taken any or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1080">TS</a>]

00:18:03   all of them you know but my friends are getting computers they were all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1083">TS</a>]

00:18:06   relatively expensive the apple in particular that's some things that don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1086">TS</a>]

00:18:10   change but even like a common good commodore 64 was was he won't cheat they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1090">TS</a>]

00:18:17   weren't cheap and a lot of my friends had to push because their parents like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1097">TS</a>]

00:18:21   that's a lot of money and you're not you know in my end and you're not going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1101">TS</a>]

00:18:26   use it enough you know you're just gonna play games where we have an Atari four [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1106">TS</a>]

00:18:29   games [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1109">TS</a>]

00:18:30   my parents wouldn't buy him a computer because they said if we bought you a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1110">TS</a>]

00:18:33   computer were worried that you're never gonna leave the house but yeah like they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1113">TS</a>]

00:18:40   I don't know if it was the right parental decision or not I can't quite [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1120">TS</a>]

00:18:44   say I even in hindsight I i can't quite say I agree with them but maybe because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1124">TS</a>]

00:18:49   you know I didn't have it had a pretty good social life in high school but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1129">TS</a>]

00:18:52   don't maybe I wouldn't i had a computer at home and he's probably right decision [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1132">TS</a>]

00:18:58   because I got so well because whatever kind of similar and not entirely bit i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1138">TS</a>]

00:19:04   got it the first Apple too i got was take the second summer after I moved [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1144">TS</a>]

00:19:10   from England here so I didn't really know a lot of people in in canada and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1150">TS</a>]

00:19:14   basically spent the entire summer inside programming right and that became like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1154">TS</a>]

00:19:19   part of my I don't know how to describe it like it like recharging like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1159">TS</a>]

00:19:26   when you need some alone time to go and do something just for yourself like and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1166">TS</a>]

00:19:29   that lasted all during high school which is when actually became good night you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1169">TS</a>]

00:19:34   know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1174">TS</a>]

00:19:34   I want to put my trade is now but yeah there's a lot of time I just did not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1174">TS</a>]

00:19:38   cops like you when I really should've like in a beautiful summer I'd be like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1178">TS</a>]

00:19:42   maybe i'll just try fixing this little bug in the summer between 10th and 11th [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1182">TS</a>]

00:19:48   grade my high school shut down there the the building was had needed a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1188">TS</a>]

00:19:55   repairs especially the roof and the school district had another building [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1195">TS</a>]

00:19:59   there was a middle school in it and in the decades prior that the population of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1199">TS</a>]

00:20:03   the school district decrease such that they close the middle school put the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1203">TS</a>]

00:20:08   fifth and sixth graders in the elementary school and it went from three [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1208">TS</a>]

00:20:11   schools elementary middle and high school to just two buildings in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1211">TS</a>]

00:20:15   elementary school for 126 and high school for seven to 12 and in between [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1215">TS</a>]

00:20:20   10th and 11th grade they shut down the high school and move the high school to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1220">TS</a>]

00:20:25   the middle school because it was a newer it was considered it was cheaper did fix [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1225">TS</a>]

00:20:29   them in the middle school which had been dormant for like 45 years and shutdown [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1229">TS</a>]

00:20:35   high school so the computer teacher I didn't trust the movers with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1235">TS</a>]

00:20:42   computers and let students take the computers home for the summer so I got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1242">TS</a>]

00:20:46   to take an apple to GS home for the summer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1246">TS</a>]

00:20:50   oh man yeah it was awesome and I had a job i actually that school hired a bunch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1250">TS</a>]

00:20:57   of kids to help move the school so I like working is like a mover [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1257">TS</a>]

00:21:02   there's a couple good that's pretty smart was that like a legit job like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1262">TS</a>]

00:21:07   nigga paid minimum wage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1267">TS</a>]

00:21:09   oh yeah minimum wage absolutely whatever i don't use whatever I think minimal I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1269">TS</a>]

00:21:15   could have been just playing fast and loose yeah i think it was either 375 an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1275">TS</a>]

00:21:18   hour or 425 an hour for dollars twenty-five minutes and that with me and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1278">TS</a>]

00:21:22   back-breaking work i mean i remember moving the library [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1282">TS</a>]

00:21:25   oh my god it's like because what is heavier than a box full of books there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1285">TS</a>]

00:21:31   there's and yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1291">TS</a>]

00:21:32   very little is heavier than a box of books and it just thousands of books [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1292">TS</a>]

00:21:36   tens of thousands of books is often and we can ride it was like a two-mile ride [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1296">TS</a>]

00:21:41   to go between the buildings [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1301">TS</a>]

00:21:44   and they just we just had like this big flatbed open-air truck and we would just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1304">TS</a>]

00:21:49   loaded up with stuff and then find spots to sit if we don't know I open-air no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1309">TS</a>]

00:21:56   seatbelt on just a bunch of kids on the truck man look at how old schools that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1316">TS</a>]

00:22:01   back it's tiresome movement which kids and just throw them in the back of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1321">TS</a>]

00:22:07   truck late and books they were they also did hire some adults like day laborer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1327">TS</a>]

00:22:15   types [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1335">TS</a>]

00:22:15   I mean this is something that people who just do moving there's disease are not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1335">TS</a>]

00:22:19   highly skilled work this is at the bottom of the the skill Jane in the in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1339">TS</a>]

00:22:24   the the laboring world and i remember the one day we're still moving the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1344">TS</a>]

00:22:31   library we had the card catalog and and so it was you know obvious is predates [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1351">TS</a>]

00:22:36   computerization of the card catalog was just this you remember what they look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1356">TS</a>]

00:22:40   like they just are like oh yeah total anytime there's like a hole punches on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1360">TS</a>]

00:22:44   the bottom like a little cards that you pull it yet yeah and you pull it out it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1364">TS</a>]

00:22:47   was just filled with index cards and the one guy this guy wasn't a kid wasn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1367">TS</a>]

00:22:51   always like what the hell is this and we were like trying to explain to him that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1371">TS</a>]

00:22:54   is these are like an index of every single book in the library and he just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1374">TS</a>]

00:22:58   takes a few out while we're on the road going like 35 miles an hour just throws [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1378">TS</a>]

00:23:03   coming over yeah I just I i mean i was ended I was an asshole as a teenager I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1383">TS</a>]

00:23:09   really wasn't it did a lot of shit that I in hindsight i really feel like i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1389">TS</a>]

00:23:13   needed i need to be doing anything good yeah yeah I but I was just a pot I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1393">TS</a>]

00:23:19   appalled because i saw that is like we revert it as data loss like some of this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1399">TS</a>]

00:23:23   yeah i did like vandalism or stuff like that I I i wrote off just because it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1403">TS</a>]

00:23:28   seemed ultimately harmless whereas I feel like put a pretty graffiti on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1408">TS</a>]

00:23:32   political science right right but I mean messing with books [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1412">TS</a>]

00:23:36   oh that was never burn a book and riots the right that way on a lake like okay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1416">TS</a>]

00:23:43   with the same summer so the same summer when we're moving with the old the old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1423">TS</a>]

00:23:47   high school had a central courtyard so that classes on the inside . sunlight to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1427">TS</a>]

00:23:53   write so then in other words it's sort of an o-shaped building that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1433">TS</a>]

00:23:56   rectangular but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1436">TS</a>]

00:23:57   donut three floors central courtyard and one of the classrooms on the third floor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1437">TS</a>]

00:24:03   had like a janky old big-ass color TV and wasn't knew at the time and we dared [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1443">TS</a>]

00:24:10   each other to throw it out the window into the court you took to see see what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1450">TS</a>]

00:24:15   kind of noise it would make and ultimately me and another guy like took [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1455">TS</a>]

00:24:19   it like we neither of us would do it by ourselves but we read it was heavy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1459">TS</a>]

00:24:23   enough that I don't know if I could have it was really heavy but me and another [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1463">TS</a>]

00:24:26   guy i don't want to know I don't want to name them just in case I don't want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1466">TS</a>]

00:24:31   put his name on the right i can afford it and another kid opened up the window [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1471">TS</a>]

00:24:38   and we toss this big-ass color TV out the window and it made the greatest know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1478">TS</a>]

00:24:44   is all my god it was it was worth it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1484">TS</a>]

00:24:47   so I did that and I didn't feel the least bit guilty about it and then there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1487">TS</a>]

00:24:51   was discovered there was a discussion there was a beating later about the TV [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1491">TS</a>]

00:24:54   and it did everybody go everybody knows anybody know about the TV in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1494">TS</a>]

00:25:00   courtyard and nobody nobody could remember anything about that square but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1500">TS</a>]

00:25:05   that awesome the cards out of the card catalog go to me that was that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1505">TS</a>]

00:25:09   beyond the pale because it's like sacrilegious yeah exactly yeah its side [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1509">TS</a>]

00:25:14   but we got the way you put it is just data life and have you seen that I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1514">TS</a>]

00:25:21   i'm one of the BOS CDs that they shipped the OS on like one of the demo movies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1521">TS</a>]

00:25:26   was them tossing monitors offered top of their office block [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1526">TS</a>]

00:25:32   no i don't so like it was exactly what you described they just dragged a bunch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1532">TS</a>]

00:25:36   of old monitors up and they just did a mock which maybe explains why they went [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1536">TS</a>]

00:25:42   out of business [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1542">TS</a>]

00:25:44   it was pretty funny as let's see about that eel and he'll probably has a link [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1544">TS</a>]

00:25:48   of something all right I'm gonna see if I can google it after the show he was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1548">TS</a>]

00:25:52   passing monitors off the roof yeah you'll be being a letterman attic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1552">TS</a>]

00:25:57   probably didn't help either because tossing a TV off off hide high floor of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1557">TS</a>]

00:26:03   a building is a very Letterman like thing to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1563">TS</a>]

00:26:05   yes the different the difference is that if the Letterman Show toss the TV off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1565">TS</a>]

00:26:09   the roof [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1569">TS</a>]

00:26:10   they bought the team [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1570">TS</a>]

00:26:11   be yes yeah I controlled environment there's no and I did not buy hit by that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1571">TS</a>]

00:26:17   TV i do not buy the TV i threw out the window but I had a job I had it was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1577">TS</a>]

00:26:24   full-time job we worked you know eight hours a day I played tons and tons of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1584">TS</a>]

00:26:29   basketball all summer long and filling in the gaps whatever wasn't working and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1589">TS</a>]

00:26:33   then every other waking moment was spent on the computer and I thought that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1593">TS</a>]

00:26:38   know the fact that i held a job and still played recreational basketball all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1598">TS</a>]

00:26:42   the time i went to movies with friends on weekends and stuff like that seemed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1602">TS</a>]

00:26:47   to me like i was able to have a computer but my parents were like see this is why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1607">TS</a>]

00:26:50   we can't buy you a computer even though i was doing other stuff they somehow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1610">TS</a>]

00:26:53   seem to think that I was but now you turned out okay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1613">TS</a>]

00:26:56   oh yeah I don't know about that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1616">TS</a>]

00:27:00   well thank you for the sake of this argument [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1620">TS</a>]

00:27:04   yeah yeah whatever look at the difference that i would say this and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1624">TS</a>]

00:27:08   think that it was the fact that i just didn't I guess I got to play with that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1628">TS</a>]

00:27:11   one mac in the lab enough that I i saw what it was all about and I saw the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1631">TS</a>]

00:27:15   appeal and I really saw the cleverness of having a system that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1635">TS</a>]

00:27:20   fundamentally a graphical user interface em but the idea of getting obsessed with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1640">TS</a>]

00:27:27   user interface design just hadn't occurred to me yet and and the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1647">TS</a>]

00:27:31   profound miss of the cleverness of the max UI system just it hadn't I didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1651">TS</a>]

00:27:40   use I needed to use it more to to appreciate it i don't think it has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1660">TS</a>]

00:27:44   occurred to anybody it I with the exception of the people that worked on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1664">TS</a>]

00:27:48   Lisa in the mac it seems that's one difference with Syracuse to me it seems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1668">TS</a>]

00:27:54   like you listening to his early history of computing the heat got he got that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1674">TS</a>]

00:27:58   aspect of the mac with almost maybe instantly but certainly with less [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1678">TS</a>]

00:28:04   exposure to it than i did I needed to own one which is which I did when I got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1684">TS</a>]

00:28:09   to college to have that mac like I said the aforementioned 44 megabyte of ram 40 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1689">TS</a>]

00:28:14   megabyte hard drive Mack LC and then really really appreciate it so no it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1694">TS</a>]

00:28:20   so I like to make like I said it in the jacket [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1700">TS</a>]

00:28:22   so I was like okay I get it this is something totally different but I didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1702">TS</a>]

00:28:27   really appreciate one until they bought one after then immediately after the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1707">TS</a>]

00:28:31   next acquisition and then I was stuck with OS 8 for a year and I felt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1711">TS</a>]

00:28:41   immediately like man I'm stuck with operating system it's like not good and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1721">TS</a>]

00:28:46   then I learnt all the great things about it and so yeah like I do consider myself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1726">TS</a>]

00:28:51   a johnny-come-lately but what I mean by nobody had appreciated it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1731">TS</a>]

00:28:57   I don't think the people at xerox parc weren't necessarily thinking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1737">TS</a>]

00:29:00   design the same way that Apple was when they went to actually try to implement [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1740">TS</a>]

00:29:06   my first release and then the mac yeah yeah it's hard to say without using this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1746">TS</a>]

00:29:13   I've never gotten the chance to use the Xerox star but I've read enough about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1753">TS</a>]

00:29:17   and there's work the drugs didn't seen it and kind of looked at it and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1757">TS</a>]

00:29:21   because i used to be a little bit more obsessed with the whole that stupid this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1761">TS</a>]

00:29:25   the angle that Apple dapple really didn't even doing with the mac they just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1765">TS</a>]

00:29:28   ripped off the rocks which legally isn't true because they actually got xerox in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1768">TS</a>]

00:29:33   exchange for a good vantage office it was totally on the up-and-up legally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1773">TS</a>]

00:29:36   they said how about we give you a little bit of a stock in the apple core apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1776">TS</a>]

00:29:39   computer and then let us know just think that's a fast I'll argument [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1779">TS</a>]

00:29:43   yeah in general well it's wrong and who cares like now but it's at the time it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1783">TS</a>]

00:29:48   was it at the time when there were was more more arguments between you know pc [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1788">TS</a>]

00:29:56   sure at the time it was a point but I mean it's only it it's only a point if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1796">TS</a>]

00:29:59   you're trying to make an appeal to Authority argument right and i never got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1799">TS</a>]

00:30:05   too bogged down in I mean somebody might be able to dig up some old usenet posted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1805">TS</a>]

00:30:09   this pic pic but i seem to recall that I always have another a anti old-school [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1809">TS</a>]

00:30:14   macclesfield well I find I found it tiresome because it it it was I was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1814">TS</a>]

00:30:21   hundred percent certain that i was on the right side and it seemed to me like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1821">TS</a>]

00:30:26   the people on the other side didn't really have anything to contribute [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1826">TS</a>]

00:30:29   anyway so if they're want to be wrong they can be wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1829">TS</a>]

00:30:32   like it wasn't worth trying to convince them there was what was what would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1832">TS</a>]

00:30:35   the point if you know if you can't see how superior this is then you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1835">TS</a>]

00:30:41   forget about it I mean circulation it's incredible how you going and edited to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1841">TS</a>]

00:30:44   what's that kind of my dog i thought one of the things that I thought was I had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1844">TS</a>]

00:30:55   to me do you remember do to you when you I don't know if you were too late i mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1855">TS</a>]

00:30:59   resident was still a thing in that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1859">TS</a>]

00:31:01   oh yeah yeah resident to me was is maybe the my favorite mac program of that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1861">TS</a>]

00:31:09   loved him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1869">TS</a>]

00:31:10   let's just say I I while being foreign to me and love the idea of a resource [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1870">TS</a>]

00:31:14   for i love the idea stuffing extra information in there but on the windows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1874">TS</a>]

00:31:20   side they try to do something similar like the exe format is a flat format but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1880">TS</a>]

00:31:27   you can have resources appended to it right but it's not the same thing as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1887">TS</a>]

00:31:32   having an actual resource for which is good and bad a good in it it's just one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1892">TS</a>]

00:31:39   flat binary stream bad in that you don't have the and then you want to express [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1899">TS</a>]

00:31:48   expressiveness like it I can visit it look at multi resource file [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1908">TS</a>]

00:31:54   well and it did it it the whole idea predated the era of universal the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1914">TS</a>]

00:32:03   internet the internet that really solve the problem of every computer eyes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1923">TS</a>]

00:32:07   because i think the internet i think the internet turned everything into the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1927">TS</a>]

00:32:11   lowest common denominator did that was my binary stream writing right now it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1931">TS</a>]

00:32:16   it's it's not o'clock and a lot of ways there that's not some ways negative you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1936">TS</a>]

00:32:20   know exactly it's not to say that it meant the best thing one it just meant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1940">TS</a>]

00:32:24   though that there was there might be a good reason to go with the lowest common [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1944">TS</a>]

00:32:27   denominator solution of everything is just a single for file [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1947">TS</a>]

00:32:31   yeah I'm coming from 1-2 at the time which and even NT which both had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1951">TS</a>]

00:32:36   multiple resource folks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1956">TS</a>]

00:32:41   look at that time all of the file systems had followed with the maggot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1961">TS</a>]

00:32:45   done which was like okay this data in one segment and then there's a bunch of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1965">TS</a>]

00:32:49   other segments that have you know either metadata or you know what you guys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1969">TS</a>]

00:32:54   called resource works the contract extended attributes which is essentially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1974">TS</a>]

00:32:58   those what really it's not even the technical details of whether it was a 24 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1978">TS</a>]

00:33:01   volt I fork file system or if they had done something more of a hack like let's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1981">TS</a>]

00:33:08   say it's or you know like a lot like what we have on us ten network where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1988">TS</a>]

00:33:12   your app is really just a folder that the lender treats as a file and total [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1992">TS</a>]

00:33:16   resources you know just imagine if the original mac had gone with the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/1996">TS</a>]

00:33:20   thing words a special magic kind of folder and in the folder are all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2000">TS</a>]

00:33:24   resources and every one of the resources itself actually just a flat file it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2004">TS</a>]

00:33:28   the conceptual design of having this one app that you could edit all that stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2008">TS</a>]

00:33:34   with all these different resources so that even in the nerd mode of of either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2014">TS</a>]

00:33:40   being a developer or just being an enthusiast who wants to customize the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2020">TS</a>]

00:33:44   icon for a file or a nap or folder or any of the other many many things you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2024">TS</a>]

00:33:54   could edit and manipulate and resident the fact that even when you did those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2034">TS</a>]

00:33:58   things you were still within same the same GUI universe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2038">TS</a>]

00:34:02   mhm and you didn't have to resort to a command line or something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2042">TS</a>]

00:34:05   ya know in some ways it's kind of like the small talk like living environment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2045">TS</a>]

00:34:10   yes I do i do think so i think you're in a strange way even though the mac the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2050">TS</a>]

00:34:15   original mac i don't think you would say the technical way not all that important [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2055">TS</a>]

00:34:19   to be different but the concept is a little bit the same right like yes that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2059">TS</a>]

00:34:23   you stay you stay completely committed to this to this limitation that yourself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2063">TS</a>]

00:34:28   imposing and and beauty will come out of it yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2068">TS</a>]

00:34:32   yeah i think so and you know it's funny [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2072">TS</a>]

00:34:36   next used to do that with like apps it shipped even on OS 10 up until oh I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2076">TS</a>]

00:34:43   gonna make up a number 10 223 most of the apps would ship with nibs which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2083">TS</a>]

00:34:51   would next interface builder files which you could open up in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2091">TS</a>]

00:34:54   interface builder which has since been merged into Xcode and then edit the UI [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2094">TS</a>]

00:35:02   of the app that you like if you didn't like the arrangement of dialog boxes you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2102">TS</a>]

00:35:06   can change it just like and visit it right these days they've moved away from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2106">TS</a>]

00:35:13   time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2113">TS</a>]

00:35:14   yeah they all get compiled down into stuff that you can hit afterwards from a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2114">TS</a>]

00:35:23   software reliability . if you think that's probably a good idea but i like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2123">TS</a>]

00:35:30   the old west style of you know stuff it is is common between both platforms the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2130">TS</a>]

00:35:38   the classic mac OS was i'm not saying that it should have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2138">TS</a>]

00:35:43   in hindsight that it should have gone through through to today that I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2143">TS</a>]

00:35:47   there's certainly some advantages to the Mac os10 philosophy you know of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2147">TS</a>]

00:35:52   design of the system where things started getting locked down and some of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2152">TS</a>]

00:35:58   the technical aspects of it were not is conceptually beautiful but more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2158">TS</a>]

00:36:03   practical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2163">TS</a>]

00:36:03   I that's when I first dead can became true familiar with your accuser is our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2163">TS</a>]

00:36:13   to argue the at the back then it was made invest and i would argue the future [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2173">TS</a>]

00:36:20   looking pragmatism and he would argue did well it just sucks in terms of let's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2180">TS</a>]

00:36:24   say window sizing right like well look it's all done on the GPU and they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2184">TS</a>]

00:36:28   doing much stuff and it's gonna get better and that yeah but it sucks and he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2188">TS</a>]

00:36:33   was he was right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2193">TS</a>]

00:36:35   he's right i think i'm also right but if it you know there was a beauty to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2195">TS</a>]

00:36:42   original mac OS know that hasn't matched since and I don't think I totally like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2202">TS</a>]

00:36:45   and- and I completely agree with toxic you said that iOS is closer much closer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2205">TS</a>]

00:36:51   yep then Mac OS tenders to the original and yeah i think now we're getting into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2211">TS</a>]

00:36:57   well more convoluted territory where I'm not sure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2217">TS</a>]

00:37:01   well the big difference the big difference and this never would have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2221">TS</a>]

00:37:04   made sense in the era of of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2224">TS</a>]

00:37:07   the original mac wouldn't have it just don't get ever would have occurred to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2227">TS</a>]

00:37:10   anybody even steve jobs to lock the system down and not even allow you did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2230">TS</a>]

00:37:16   you know they're did like the residents a perfect comparison there's never gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2236">TS</a>]

00:37:21   be a resident for iOS that lets you diddle with the icons for apps or how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2241">TS</a>]

00:37:26   the resources in it because it that that doesn't that there's another aspect of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2246">TS</a>]

00:37:30   iOS that that would be philosophically opposed to there's a sort of do not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2250">TS</a>]

00:37:35   allow you to shoot yours by part of the design of iOS is to design a system that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2255">TS</a>]

00:37:40   prevents you from shooting yourself in the foot even that you really really if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2260">TS</a>]

00:37:44   you've got like a really cheat you know a satchel eats foot and you just want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2264">TS</a>]

00:37:48   shoot yourself in the foot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2268">TS</a>]

00:37:49   you're not you can't do it in iOS by itself that just never would have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2269">TS</a>]

00:37:56   occurred to anybody in the mac OS air like I don't think the fact that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2276">TS</a>]

00:37:59   know i mean it wasn't like the Machine shipped with resident you had to put it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2279">TS</a>]

00:38:03   on your machine but not even allowing you to do resident or not allowing you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2283">TS</a>]

00:38:08   know having a resident that wasn't allowed to edit certain system files or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2288">TS</a>]

00:38:12   something like that never existed makes sense well I mean used to some of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2292">TS</a>]

00:38:16   hacks we would do we would go right into the remember there is the system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2296">TS</a>]

00:38:19   suitcase there was actually there is it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2299">TS</a>]

00:38:22   yeah i mean as part of the things one of things that i say made the mac the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2302">TS</a>]

00:38:26   original mac so beautiful is that the entire file system was there was no no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2306">TS</a>]

00:38:32   crap there was like four or in those years went on very very little crap like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2312">TS</a>]

00:38:36   it was just a folder that said system folder and inside was a last suitcase [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2316">TS</a>]

00:38:41   file called system and that had all the resources for the system itself and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2321">TS</a>]

00:38:45   they're all neatly organized over there were no hidden folders or anything like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2325">TS</a>]

00:38:49   that the only hidden folder I can remember would be the desktop folder [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2329">TS</a>]

00:38:53   that at the root level of the hard drive there was an invisible folder called the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2333">TS</a>]

00:38:57   disc Desktop folder which is the actual location in the file system where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2337">TS</a>]

00:39:01   everything you put on your desktop was notably under the root of the disk not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2341">TS</a>]

00:39:07   under the user there was no user right well that's that I mean this is why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2347">TS</a>]

00:39:13   things got a little bit interesting i was ten came along right things get a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2353">TS</a>]

00:39:16   little bit tricky right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2356">TS</a>]

00:39:18   and that's why we started but i don't remember who is a beta that actually hid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2358">TS</a>]

00:39:23   anything outside of user I'll man i think that their wireless I think i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2363">TS</a>]

00:39:30   mighta been floated but yeah they went back and forth a lot of those things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2370">TS</a>]

00:39:34   yeah oh let me take a break my word [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2374">TS</a>]

00:39:38   yeah you think several thank our first 41 minutes and you haven't even gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2378">TS</a>]

00:39:42   show you it's our good friends at audible.com this episode of the show is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2382">TS</a>]

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00:40:02   trial for all of it at audible.com / talk show so if you want to listen to it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2402">TS</a>]

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00:40:18   most Kindles and even ipods I mean even sponsoring the show and other podcast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2418">TS</a>]

00:40:23   for many many many years because it makes sense because guess what podcast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2423">TS</a>]

00:40:27   anybody is listening to me talk about audible right now you are somebody who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2427">TS</a>]

00:40:30   enjoys listening to people talk to audio spoken audio content [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2430">TS</a>]

00:40:35   I don't know how you're listening to me you're using you know your phone if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2435">TS</a>]

00:40:39   you're using your desktop got headphones on your pumping through your car [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2439">TS</a>]

00:40:43   speakers but wherever you are whatever you're doing you like listening to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2443">TS</a>]

00:40:46   spoken word audio content so . audible with over a hundred and eighty thousand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2446">TS</a>]

00:40:51   of these things is something to look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2451">TS</a>]

00:40:54   if to fill up the remaining time that you have to to listen to stuff i mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2454">TS</a>]

00:40:57   don't stop listening to talk show but you know if you've got free time where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2457">TS</a>]

00:41:01   you wish that there was more stuff to listen to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2461">TS</a>]

00:41:04   ah audible is the one place that has more stuff than you'll ever be able to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2464">TS</a>]

00:41:08   listen to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2468">TS</a>]

00:41:09   I'm so when you begin your free 30-day trial you can get your first audio book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2469">TS</a>]

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00:41:16   membership in any time when you subscribe to audible you can take risks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2476">TS</a>]

00:41:22   and try new authors and genres without regret because audible offers their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2482">TS</a>]

00:41:25   great listen guarantee if you start an audiobook and you don't like it bores [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2485">TS</a>]

00:41:30   the hell out of your what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2490">TS</a>]

00:41:31   however it's not what you thought it was going to be you can exchange it for free [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2491">TS</a>]

00:41:34   for another one cannot be better people do you know people who listen to a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2494">TS</a>]

00:41:38   of audio content you this is the place to go to so soak up more of it than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2498">TS</a>]

00:41:42   you'll ever get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2502">TS</a>]

00:41:43   so go to audible.com / talk show and get your 30-day free trial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2503">TS</a>]

00:41:47   thank you . able for sponsoring the talk show I didn't even have this in a note i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2507">TS</a>]

00:41:53   do I always prepare very copious and well-organized notes for the show yeah i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2513">TS</a>]

00:41:57   did not have a trip down memory lane [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2517">TS</a>]

00:42:00   there's not much i like the mac i like the max so much when i was a freshman in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2520">TS</a>]

00:42:03   college and finally owned one and had it i spent my entire freshman year all of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2523">TS</a>]

00:42:07   my free time either playing games or hacking or dealing with the system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2527">TS</a>]

00:42:12   resources and in resident and didn't you know I didn't go out drinking or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2532">TS</a>]

00:42:17   anything like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2537">TS</a>]

00:42:19   all I did recreation I just continued to play basketball I play basketball and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2539">TS</a>]

00:42:23   sat in my dorm room staring at my mac LC staring at it and we didn't have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2543">TS</a>]

00:42:29   network at the time there was no there was no internet in the dorms at Drexel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2549">TS</a>]

00:42:33   University at the time so you know what and modems were modems are so expensive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2553">TS</a>]

00:42:37   they're probably looking at a joke [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2557">TS</a>]

00:42:40   yeah there are preposterous is why 291 9091 292 yeah I've told this story [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2560">TS</a>]

00:42:46   before to wee-wee wired up the dorm room [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2566">TS</a>]

00:42:50   kelvin hall at drexel with the phone net forget what they were called but they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2570">TS</a>]

00:42:55   were these little and they were these were pretty cheap you can get the order [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2575">TS</a>]

00:42:58   amount of the back Mac world magazine or mac user you mail order these things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2578">TS</a>]

00:43:03   going to get yours from a connection was about 15 bucks and get a little about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2583">TS</a>]

00:43:07   the size of the mouse maybe even spark smaller than the mouths of the day and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2587">TS</a>]

00:43:13   it would plug into the serial port of your mac and then I was a phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2593">TS</a>]

00:43:17   connector on the other side on the box and so then you could use phone cable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2597">TS</a>]

00:43:21   just regular old telephone cable to create a local talk network [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2601">TS</a>]

00:43:26   oh man executed that so you playing video games again right spectators the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2606">TS</a>]

00:43:31   name of the was that it was like a first-person shooter i get a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2611">TS</a>]

00:43:34   vector-based no pseudo vector based tank game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2614">TS</a>]

00:43:38   and we wired up the whole floor and we figured out you know and then I we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2618">TS</a>]

00:43:43   figured out that you know this is like the first time I learned how you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2623">TS</a>]

00:43:46   like you know some electrical stuff work that there's nothing really magical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2626">TS</a>]

00:43:51   about phone cable it's just copper that's all it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2631">TS</a>]

00:43:54   there's no it's just copper intellect you know the electrons move on it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2634">TS</a>]

00:43:58   doesn't you know and that the colors are just to match up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2638">TS</a>]

00:44:01   there's nothing different about him so yeah we figured out we could we we just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2641">TS</a>]

00:44:05   ran speaker wire through the drop ceiling all around the forget what floor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2645">TS</a>]

00:44:11   i was 18 for seventh floor of common Hall and then just ran phone wire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2651">TS</a>]

00:44:15   between anybody who wanted to get on the network or not you know and you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2655">TS</a>]

00:44:21   have to do any soldering or any just going to connect the dots make sure the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2661">TS</a>]

00:44:25   cable and is the electrical tape it up so we have the whole floor wired up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2665">TS</a>]

00:44:29   networking there's a chat app [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2669">TS</a>]

00:44:32   oh my god it was like the first time I ever had African what was called boy it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2672">TS</a>]

00:44:35   somebody out there remember it but a mac it wasn't there when you just Hotwire it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2675">TS</a>]

00:44:41   was it now was way before that way it was but you can I guess you'd have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2681">TS</a>]

00:44:46   know you didn't have a user ID you have a mac name though so your Mac would have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2686">TS</a>]

00:44:51   a home on the local top network so that's how you do you know that was like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2691">TS</a>]

00:44:54   your ID say but you could like effectively just sent teams to each [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2694">TS</a>]

00:44:57   other which was amazing everything of course if everybody does this all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2697">TS</a>]

00:45:01   time now but it was like my introduction to tell ya that was really cool and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2701">TS</a>]

00:45:05   was all through a proper Mac interface there was no wasn't like you have to go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2705">TS</a>]

00:45:08   to a terminal type application or anything like that it was great yeah and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2708">TS</a>]

00:45:13   then we found out the kids on the floor above us had done the same thing and did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2713">TS</a>]

00:45:18   you bake them to you yeah there was a lot of trash let's call it an internet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2718">TS</a>]

00:45:22   there's a lot of trash talking about who's better at inspector and so we ran [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2722">TS</a>]

00:45:26   some wire outside my room up to the 16 is created named yeah and then one day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2726">TS</a>]

00:45:34   the guy i forget them is title but whoever it was he was the guy who's that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2734">TS</a>]

00:45:38   in charge of the that dorm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2738">TS</a>]

00:45:40   yeah you know like I forget his title but the guy that was in church but there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2740">TS</a>]

00:45:45   wasn't like a name sounds like an eighties villain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2745">TS</a>]

00:45:48   yeah well he is a nice guy i just it was it was a very eight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2748">TS</a>]

00:45:51   keezmovies situation where i got a knock on the door and was told to come down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2751">TS</a>]

00:45:55   and meet him it was me and the guy above me who's thing says his smoking jacket [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2755">TS</a>]

00:46:00   with like one of those candy with the candy cigarettes and the dorm faced [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2760">TS</a>]

00:46:05   south or at least my side of the dorm face south and so it caught the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2765">TS</a>]

00:46:11   afternoon sunlight the afternoon sunlight came into our dorm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2771">TS</a>]

00:46:14   he said he was coming up the street yesterday and no notice the very bright [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2774">TS</a>]

00:46:19   this is where we were where we screwed up is that we just use speaker wire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2779">TS</a>]

00:46:22   instead of we didn't really try to disguise it and that the the copper of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2782">TS</a>]

00:46:26   that speaker wire really it was bright it like blinded him and he saw like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2786">TS</a>]

00:46:29   very bright line between our dorm rooms and we got closer and figure out what it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2789">TS</a>]

00:46:34   was you know that this is a fire hazard and we you know got to take this down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2794">TS</a>]

00:46:38   immediately and he obviously and I tried to explain that and I'm i think i think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2798">TS</a>]

00:46:44   i'm correct that it was not a fire hazard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2804">TS</a>]

00:46:47   it dont think theres not flotation right there's not a voltage you know it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2807">TS</a>]

00:46:51   our husbands also not a dumb suggestion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2811">TS</a>]

00:46:55   no not a dumb suggestion and I could totally see why as a someone with a job [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2815">TS</a>]

00:46:59   that you know ya needed to deal with this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2819">TS</a>]

00:47:03   so we start always I will get right on it will take it right down and and all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2823">TS</a>]

00:47:06   we did was take down the bridge between the two floors of course and hope that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2826">TS</a>]

00:47:10   he didn't make any kind of spot inspection because it also seemed clear [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2830">TS</a>]

00:47:16   he had no idea he i think he did because he saw it he thought it was a connection [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2836">TS</a>]

00:47:20   between my room and the kid above his room not a connection between like 30 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2840">TS</a>]

00:47:24   dorm gray those were the days can't compete with that maybe could be used to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2844">TS</a>]

00:47:36   look at shielded wire little bit more gonna get ya [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2856">TS</a>]

00:47:42   don't ya think we could have you no money was money was a problem though I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2862">TS</a>]

00:47:46   mean this was a network that we you know other than that with everybody had a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2866">TS</a>]

00:47:48   fifteen dollar box data by themselves and i would say the rest of it cost us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2868">TS</a>]

00:47:52   about ten dollars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2872">TS</a>]

00:47:54   yeah wherever wherever we went to buy the speaker wire in bulk and the DA [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2874">TS</a>]

00:47:58   electrical tape [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2878">TS</a>]

00:48:00   I like that you stepped up from just using the like sort of the 10 that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2880">TS</a>]

00:48:04   can get from like gum wrappers burning off the paper side and that is using the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2884">TS</a>]

00:48:09   10 and just kinda you're having it together [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2889">TS</a>]

00:48:12   I'm trying to google the name of this app and I cannot find it i don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2892">TS</a>]

00:48:15   how did because it the because it was something that was only abuse in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2895">TS</a>]

00:48:19   maybe ladies very late eighties and early nineties it all predates the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2899">TS</a>]

00:48:23   internet and predates google so i know it's like impossible you know why a used [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2903">TS</a>]

00:48:29   to go to work I was thinking about right for old-school unix names [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2909">TS</a>]

00:48:33   yeah i mean i wasn't a unix name it was a total Mac think it was not to support [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2913">TS</a>]

00:48:36   but like like a brief on it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2916">TS</a>]

00:48:39   yeah it was like wasn't wasn't talk like something you could do local talk about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2919">TS</a>]

00:48:45   it but that no yeah local chakra see a protocol but talking unix yeah i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2925">TS</a>]

00:48:52   remember talk and then there was like variants of it like and talk and yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2932">TS</a>]

00:48:56   Amy and I used to use that extensively because I've been entirely retro episode [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2936">TS</a>]

00:49:05   of the show so amy was in Pittsburgh and I was in Philadelphia and even though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2945">TS</a>]

00:49:09   it's still the state of Pennsylvania it was still this is out ancient the early [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2949">TS</a>]

00:49:13   nineties were there was long-distance phone calls were still a thing so we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2953">TS</a>]

00:49:17   used to read just by talking a few minutes a week we'd rack up a hundred [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2957">TS</a>]

00:49:20   dollar-a-month phone bill which was massive college student said there was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2960">TS</a>]

00:49:26   no way to to cost-effectively speak on the phone from pittsburgh to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2966">TS</a>]

00:49:31   philadelphia and then we just got you know we got email and email each other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2971">TS</a>]

00:49:35   and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2975">TS</a>]

00:49:36   when we discovered like talk and talk but to be we had to use them like she [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2976">TS</a>]

00:49:42   had to use it from like a lab rat pit at university of pittsburgh she didn't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2982">TS</a>]

00:49:48   a computer in your dorm and eventually i think i got a modem soon enough but i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2988">TS</a>]

00:49:52   think when we first started doing it I might have had to go to the lab to so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2992">TS</a>]

00:49:54   we'd have to like schedule a time because you wouldn't be able to to get a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2994">TS</a>]

00:49:58   nice you know like like the whole idea of how do you start texting with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/2998">TS</a>]

00:50:03   somebody is is a totally different problem when you don't have that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3003">TS</a>]

00:50:08   phone with you at all times and there's no better sexy talk and scheduled time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3008">TS</a>]

00:50:12   in the lab right that but it worked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3012">TS</a>]

00:50:17   it was amazing you can tell you that you can see what each other was typing at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3017">TS</a>]

00:50:20   the same time to at least with one of them the one we like the best I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3020">TS</a>]

00:50:23   like character by character yeah it was like smelly delete yeah yeah I just that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3023">TS</a>]

00:50:27   and you can make jokes with it you know it was good yeah good way to like make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3027">TS</a>]

00:50:31   jokes where you type something and then delete delete [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3031">TS</a>]

00:50:34   yeah I'm of two minds that I'm kind of glad that people don't get to see what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3034">TS</a>]

00:50:37   it was about to say but i remember those apps when it was like you have to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3037">TS</a>]

00:50:42   careful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3042">TS</a>]

00:50:43   yeah I like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3043">TS</a>]

00:50:47   3-digit icq code at one point which I never used to remember i think you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3047">TS</a>]

00:50:56   I yeah I never really used it really black mostly pc think yeah and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3056">TS</a>]

00:51:03   remember I remember not getting there was like a real eye-opener me where I i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3063">TS</a>]

00:51:06   heard of it i thought no i don't think i ever signed up for it and then it but it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3066">TS</a>]

00:51:09   was like six months after i became aware of it when I realized that that that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3069">TS</a>]

00:51:15   name was upon because I all your IRC and I you know IRC was just internet relay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3075">TS</a>]

00:51:20   chat i did use that of course and then I thought icq was just the same thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3080">TS</a>]

00:51:26   where it had meant something and I didn't realize that it was icq yeah it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3086">TS</a>]

00:51:30   yeah we got a cute name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3090">TS</a>]

00:51:32   this explains why i had no interest in using yeah well I also at the time did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3092">TS</a>]

00:51:38   not have any interest in talking to people that weren't in front of me I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3098">TS</a>]

00:51:42   think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3102">TS</a>]

00:51:43   has changed as they have become employed you still looking like i am i'm tweeting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3103">TS</a>]

00:51:52   I'm going to tweet here this is alive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3112">TS</a>]

00:51:53   there's a tweet livejournal actually anyone remember the name of the early [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3113">TS</a>]

00:51:57   nineties chooser extension for instant messaging on local talk let's see if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3117">TS</a>]

00:52:01   Twitter can see if Twitter kenmare can consider the day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3121">TS</a>]

00:52:07   yeah yeah filipino going to look to live audience right i just want to say we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3127">TS</a>]

00:52:14   actually had a plan like I have an army outlined a document here but that's what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3134">TS</a>]

00:52:19   we're gonna talk about it i'm gonna do and you know what the first one was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3139">TS</a>]

00:52:22   Prince right we did that and we're still good but what's next on your army or was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3142">TS</a>]

00:52:30   it the ben thompson Apple yeah the actual services right yeah so yeah and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3150">TS</a>]

00:52:34   don't want to drag you back to this because I love have done however we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3154">TS</a>]

00:52:37   filled it up i'll just wait until my Twitter replies have their yeah we'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3157">TS</a>]

00:52:41   get back today I'm so how would you summarize Ben Thompson 10 times a great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3161">TS</a>]

00:52:47   piece on st. Thompson is a person you don't know the best time someone who's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3167">TS</a>]

00:52:51   this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3171">TS</a>]

00:52:52   don't like a yeah it's difficult I kid like it had a good pieces weekly free [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3172">TS</a>]

00:53:00   may take that to hurt his weekly free for everyone's protector II column this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3180">TS</a>]

00:53:05   week was either really area is always good but i thought this one was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3185">TS</a>]

00:53:09   particularly good yeah i'm more or less arguing that all right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3189">TS</a>]

00:53:14   one of the things that makes apple very unique i'm gonna try to summarize this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3194">TS</a>]

00:53:17   very quickly is that apple doesn't have product divisions there's no Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3197">TS</a>]

00:53:22   division at the logical way for a company that sells what apple sells [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3202">TS</a>]

00:53:26   would be to have a mac division and iphone division probably a separate ipad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3206">TS</a>]

00:53:31   division [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3211">TS</a>]

00:53:32   although there's you know you could argue whether an ipad maybe in them in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3212">TS</a>]

00:53:36   the eye and iphone division a new watch division at seventh and they don't TV or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3216">TS</a>]

00:53:43   accessories be any accessories division the TV being the thing and they don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3223">TS</a>]

00:53:48   that's not how the company has been setup it it that's the first thing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3228">TS</a>]

00:53:52   probably the most important thing that Steve Jobs did when he came back in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3232">TS</a>]

00:53:56   1997a I was dismantled that sort of thinking and it put in what would what's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3236">TS</a>]

00:54:03   best called I mean this is the part where Ben Ben Ben can smart talk is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3243">TS</a>]

00:54:08   because he actually you know like knows the business school terminology and we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3248">TS</a>]

00:54:12   just 11 me when you asked me to talk about this I'm like seriously like well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3252">TS</a>]

00:54:17   but that hasn't stopped me on it like its gonna go guy but this side of is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3257">TS</a>]

00:54:21   anyway because it's functional vs divisional right you just described [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3261">TS</a>]

00:54:25   divisional right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3265">TS</a>]

00:54:26   Apple works as a functional structure and you know there have been exceptions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3266">TS</a>]

00:54:31   the ipod division was sort of an exception to this but they got rid of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3271">TS</a>]

00:54:36   that and wait let's define why the ipod division was a separate from that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3276">TS</a>]

00:54:43   because it had its own OS and it's running right of the manufacturing trust [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3283">TS</a>]

00:54:50   yeah it made sense for and I think it sort of evolved naturally and it wasn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3290">TS</a>]

00:54:54   really seen as an exception but simply that it just was just made sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3294">TS</a>]

00:54:59   especially in the early years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3299">TS</a>]

00:55:01   yeah I'm and I really don't think it's overstating it that that the decision to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3301">TS</a>]

00:55:06   go with a stripped down version of OS 10 as the OS for the original iphone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3306">TS</a>]

00:55:14   instead of a a you know muscled-up version of the ipod OS or some other new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3314">TS</a>]

00:55:24   new OS in know in the mindset of the I've ipod OS and interpersonal games [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3324">TS</a>]

00:55:32   right right exactly what was it called it takes you pics opx I think either p I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3332">TS</a>]

00:55:38   xof PX I oh yeah i think it was p IXO but yeah it was an embedded operating [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3338">TS</a>]

00:55:43   system you know 44 get a license and heavily modified right i think i'm being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3343">TS</a>]

00:55:50   fair in describing that as a including all of you know the early ipods as ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3350">TS</a>]

00:55:58   more computer like electronic gadgets and then the other mindset [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3358">TS</a>]

00:56:03   it is and it just we did you know that the industry just had to wait until [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3363">TS</a>]

00:56:08   computers got small enough and cheap enough and and ran with you know a low [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3368">TS</a>]

00:56:13   enough energy to make ever more gadget like computers right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3373">TS</a>]

00:56:19   the iphone is a gadget like unix computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3379">TS</a>]

00:56:24   I mean it really is it full you know it's a much better units computer than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3384">TS</a>]

00:56:27   most of the server's of you know the earlier part of our lives [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3387">TS</a>]

00:56:31   well going I mean going back to what we were talking about the previously when I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3391">TS</a>]

00:56:37   stand first became the thing people all worried about like well unix rights at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3397">TS</a>]

00:56:41   these massive log files every night at midnight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3401">TS</a>]

00:56:44   ok you can't do that on a pc you know a few years later it's appropriate to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3404">TS</a>]

00:56:53   using on a phone because of a lot of work that went into always 10 and no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3413">TS</a>]

00:56:57   soda taming unix back to be I guess more focused or don't you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3417">TS</a>]

00:57:04   yeah boots i remember at the macworld where the original iphone was introduced [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3424">TS</a>]

00:57:11   it was Macworld Expo january 2007 and it was it's the biggest sensation of all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3431">TS</a>]

00:57:16   sensations from to go into that but then it was doing the trade show was there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3436">TS</a>]

00:57:20   afterwards and I think I was doing a live episode of the talkshow did it with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3440">TS</a>]

00:57:30   cable sasser damn behavin wasn't there and so is Craig there too which is cable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3450">TS</a>]

00:57:36   it was just cable that time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3456">TS</a>]

00:57:39   yeah it gives you in this class boo three now is the different was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3459">TS</a>]

00:57:43   different one we don't know that we had and we weren't in a glass booth and we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3463">TS</a>]

00:57:46   had an audience of people might have been after that one where where we did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3466">TS</a>]

00:57:52   it in the the glass booth which was weird but we're out on the open show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3472">TS</a>]

00:57:58   more the acoustics are terrible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3478">TS</a>]

00:58:00   I don't know where the audio is but it was just just we obviously knew we want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3480">TS</a>]

00:58:04   to talk about just mean cable sasser talking about this amazing iphone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3484">TS</a>]

00:58:08   and I just remember cable came out and we haven't I don't know 1,500 people in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3488">TS</a>]

00:58:12   front of us and cables and how many people how many of you guys are thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3492">TS</a>]

00:58:15   you're going to buy one right away and everybody's hand just shot up like just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3495">TS</a>]

00:58:19   shot up since I've never seen any product where every single person just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3499">TS</a>]

00:58:25   needed to have one right away it was amazing but anyway we're just smiling in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3505">TS</a>]

00:58:30   internet I couldn't buy one in Canada I was there I saw 1i bought it i like to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3510">TS</a>]

00:58:43   do and I've told the story before but all I could do for like a long time with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3523">TS</a>]

00:58:47   slide to unlock to call 911 that was it i spend a bunch of money on something so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3527">TS</a>]

00:58:53   incredible but you could use the only thing i could do is i want you to call [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3533">TS</a>]

00:58:56   the police to get never asked me for abusing a feature on my new phone and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3536">TS</a>]

00:59:00   you can use it on Wi-Fi not until after jailbreak all that's right because that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3540">TS</a>]

00:59:07   I could even jailbreak it at I'm telling you all I could do is slide that thing I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3547">TS</a>]

00:59:10   totally forgot about that you had to unlock the carrier unlock it yeah you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3550">TS</a>]

00:59:16   had to get it unlocked by AT&T before it would even work as a ipod touch that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3556">TS</a>]

00:59:22   right that's right yeah that's what I finally I was i slide the headline i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3562">TS</a>]

00:59:27   would've bought 12 I would have done the same thing it was like me buying the mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3567">TS</a>]

00:59:31   as soon as jobs into the company would like next up but I was like a min let's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3571">TS</a>]

00:59:35   see what you got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3575">TS</a>]

00:59:37   so after the podcast I there was a friend and Apple are known for awhile [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3577">TS</a>]

00:59:41   still there so I can't say who but somebody and and I knew that they did he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3581">TS</a>]

00:59:48   had disappeared for a while you know and in just disappeared in terms of like he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3588">TS</a>]

00:59:52   was obviously working on something that was all-consuming and it turned out he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3592">TS</a>]

00:59:57   was working on the you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3597">TS</a>]

00:59:57   was working on the you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3597">TS</a>]

01:00:00   first version was even called iOS yet and you know even then even though he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3600">TS</a>]

01:00:06   could reveal that the ask this is what I've been working on these didn't always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3606">TS</a>]

01:00:09   an apple person he still can't even off the record in private just you know and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3609">TS</a>]

01:00:12   you know just commiserating after the show wasn't like anything but I had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3612">TS</a>]

01:00:17   questions and you know would Apple friends always like to ask questions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3617">TS</a>]

01:00:20   they just sometimes don't answer them you don't have to get used to that and i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3620">TS</a>]

01:00:24   asked him i was like ok so if it's running even the most stripped-down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3624">TS</a>]

01:00:28   version of OS 10 conceivable just really really lighter weight and really take a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3628">TS</a>]

01:00:34   hatchet to all sorts of stuff that you know the demons and processes running in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3634">TS</a>]

01:00:38   the background is like that is going to take forever to turn on compared to an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3638">TS</a>]

01:00:43   ipod or like a regular cell phone and he just looked at me and smiled and he just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3643">TS</a>]

01:00:50   said yes as though yes there we did there's no way to avoid that but you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3650">TS</a>]

01:00:57   won't have to turn you know you what if you don't have to turn it off all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3657">TS</a>]

01:01:00   time and I was like oh and i realize like that is interesting and I think did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3660">TS</a>]

01:01:05   that whole story was inspired by your like the way that like a unit most units [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3665">TS</a>]

01:01:10   machines were configured that at the turn of midnight just start doing a spew [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3670">TS</a>]

01:01:15   a whole bunch of automated system cleanup and log files and all this stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3675">TS</a>]

01:01:21   and rotate on and do all this crazy stuff and just because all the units [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3681">TS</a>]

01:01:26   machines we knew to date did that doesn't mean that one that was built for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3686">TS</a>]

01:01:30   consumers would have to do that too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3690">TS</a>]

01:01:32   it's like you just step away and realize that that is a terrible assumption to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3692">TS</a>]

01:01:36   make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3696">TS</a>]

01:01:36   alright guys took that one step further in it and aid they didn't give you swap [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3696">TS</a>]

01:01:46   space right and just explained that if you're using more memory then is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3706">TS</a>]

01:01:54   available to you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3714">TS</a>]

01:01:55   typical unix systems will try to make it available to you by granting you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3715">TS</a>]

01:01:59   disk-based swap out portions of whatever you working on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3719">TS</a>]

01:02:04   instead it would tell you you getting very close to the limit here and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3724">TS</a>]

01:02:11   there wasn't even three strength right was like the second strike would say ok [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3731">TS</a>]

01:02:15   what you did I just kill you your Apple go away and that brought a new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3735">TS</a>]

01:02:22   discipline to writing applications that it was foreign to the unix world where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3742">TS</a>]

01:02:27   you presume that you had you know if not complete control at least you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3747">TS</a>]

01:02:37   marshal that the system into doing exactly what you wanted right especially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3757">TS</a>]

01:02:42   once we got to the point where disk space was if not infinite was at least [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3762">TS</a>]

01:02:49   compared to ram infinite then once we started measuring hard disks in hundreds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3769">TS</a>]

01:02:57   of gigabytes at least maybe even the early maybe even like 40 80 gigabyte [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3777">TS</a>]

01:03:02   sizes compared to ram that's just humongous and therefore unix is the game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3782">TS</a>]

01:03:08   of we'll just pretend ram is infinite and write out what you're using to disk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3788">TS</a>]

01:03:14   and move from disk back into actual ram what we need on-the-fly could work but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3794">TS</a>]

01:03:18   that's exactly why in layman's terms in I mean in this doesn't happen anymore if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3798">TS</a>]

01:03:23   you have SSDs and it probably doesn't happen anymore just because you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3803">TS</a>]

01:03:26   really most of us don't need swap or at least don't mean much but in the days of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3806">TS</a>]

01:03:30   spinning hard drives and low amount of ram when your system started to slow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3810">TS</a>]

01:03:34   down and you'd hear hard drive for feeling knowing all the time that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3814">TS</a>]

01:03:38   exactly why because it was constantly shuffling back and more inclusive visual [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3818">TS</a>]

01:03:42   thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3822">TS</a>]

01:03:43   well I'm kind of glad we did that memory lane thing right at the top of the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3823">TS</a>]

01:03:46   it gets a lot more context of this kind of stuff with the other foot getting the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3826">TS</a>]

01:03:50   other philosophical aspect of traditional unix is that a process that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3830">TS</a>]

01:03:55   starts running will run until it processed the process itself besides [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3835">TS</a>]

01:04:01   okay i'm done and now i'm leaving and you could have bugs that would crash the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3841">TS</a>]

01:04:05   thing you as a user could take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3845">TS</a>]

01:04:08   personal interaction and kill the process manually like did you know force [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3848">TS</a>]

01:04:12   quit but the system itself would do whatever it takes to make sure that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3852">TS</a>]

01:04:17   has bugs aside and user action aside you will run forever if you want to run [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3857">TS</a>]

01:04:23   forever and iOS like you said said you need to be ready to die in a moment's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3863">TS</a>]

01:04:28   notice like traditional unix operating systems a bend over backwards and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3868">TS</a>]

01:04:34   service of the applications that are running if you have any data that iOS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3874">TS</a>]

01:04:39   bends over backwards right for the user right and for the interaction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3879">TS</a>]

01:04:43   interactivity interactions yeah and so the idea of as a as a proper iOS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3883">TS</a>]

01:04:48   developer is if you have any data that needs to be certain needs to be saved [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3888">TS</a>]

01:04:52   you need to save it constantly and at all times at any time it changes save it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3892">TS</a>]

01:04:56   anytime it changes save it automatically because you might be killed at any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3896">TS</a>]

01:05:01   moment and that's fair game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3901">TS</a>]

01:05:03   you may be killed and then the user may come back to your lab and you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3903">TS</a>]

01:05:06   expected to be in the same spot to pretend like nothing happened and yeah i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3906">TS</a>]

01:05:11   mean the home button used to just kill you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3911">TS</a>]

01:05:13   yeah everytime automatically USA at the home button that whatever was running [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3913">TS</a>]

01:05:16   this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3916">TS</a>]

01:05:16   yeah you know I have that discipline i really do like in the denominator has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3916">TS</a>]

01:05:21   been hardcore the time it took for the prefer the animation to go back to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3921">TS</a>]

01:05:25   home screen you were expected to be completely cleaned up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3925">TS</a>]

01:05:28   yeah you're good yeah got the boot but so anyway that that decision that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3928">TS</a>]

01:05:33   fateful decision to go the cut-down version of OS 10 route effectively [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3933">TS</a>]

01:05:37   squeeze Tony Fadell out the door and sort of brought an end to that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3937">TS</a>]

01:05:41   functional arrangement and then in $MONTH 2011 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3941">TS</a>]

01:05:45   now that would be a division arrangement take ya the divisional manager I'm sorry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3945">TS</a>]

01:05:48   nnnn incorrect and then in $MONTH 2011 with the Scott Forstall now stir it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3948">TS</a>]

01:05:55   really ended it because effectively I think it's fair to say that Scott [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3955">TS</a>]

01:06:01   Forstall ran in iOS division within Apple name maybe that's a little too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3961">TS</a>]

01:06:08   glib but it's you know it forestall that amount of maybe you know and there were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3968">TS</a>]

01:06:16   obviously some parts that were shared between os's but they tended to filter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3976">TS</a>]

01:06:20   back and forth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3980">TS</a>]

01:06:21   years later right like and there was even an event the one time that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3981">TS</a>]

01:06:25   made that the theme of the event was called like the back of my mac back to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3985">TS</a>]

01:06:28   the Mac the Mac yeah and it was look we've recreated a bunch of these cool [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3988">TS</a>]

01:06:33   technologies for iOS in the last few years and they actually these things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3993">TS</a>]

01:06:37   would make sense I'm know as 10 and so we've taken them back to the mac as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/3997">TS</a>]

01:06:42   opposed to today's i would say extremely functionally a wine Apple where Craig [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4002">TS</a>]

01:06:54   federighi he's T&J software is in charge of software and yes there's some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4014">TS</a>]

01:06:59   divisions and it seems like the watch OS team is sort of off on its own a but i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4019">TS</a>]

01:07:06   don't think in a contentious way it's just in a they have to put their heads [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4026">TS</a>]

01:07:10   down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4030">TS</a>]

01:07:11   no I don't think it's contentious that you're right it's early days right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4031">TS</a>]

01:07:14   yeah exactly i think it makes sense for early days that you sort of get i think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4034">TS</a>]

01:07:18   you could probably say the apple TV is kind of in the same boat again but apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4038">TS</a>]

01:07:23   TV is Right believe under 80 kia the I did think so but i don't i'm not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4043">TS</a>]

01:07:31   entirely sure I'm pretty sure now that you're right and so Ben Thompson's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4051">TS</a>]

01:07:47   argument is that this works great for devices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4067">TS</a>]

01:07:50   Apple has proven that it works great in it it explains apples continue you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4070">TS</a>]

01:07:56   I wouldn't you know anything can end because it all depends on actual [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4076">TS</a>]

01:07:59   execution they have to it's easy so long as you keep making great products and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4079">TS</a>]

01:08:04   that's actually a very you know the keep making great products is difficult in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4084">TS</a>]

01:08:09   and of itself but if you do it's easy to keep keep them popular and to keep the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4089">TS</a>]

01:08:14   integration between things that that makes apple stuff so you know famously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4094">TS</a>]

01:08:20   fun and easy and and and attractive to use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4100">TS</a>]

01:08:26   yeah and I in some ways that do think that it's folly to associate a the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4106">TS</a>]

01:08:35   success of one company with the prominence of one kind of model like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4115">TS</a>]

01:08:43   don't whether one company succeeds or fails as a lot more to do with other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4123">TS</a>]

01:08:50   factors and other than the particular model like you can't you can't i don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4130">TS</a>]

01:08:55   think you can look at any functional company and be like well they're bound [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4135">TS</a>]

01:08:58   to be like Apple because that's not the truth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4138">TS</a>]

01:09:02   similarly don't think you can say that like I need company that follows a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4142">TS</a>]

01:09:06   division organizational pattern is going to become like DuPont which is his you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4146">TS</a>]

01:09:15   know his is example right right Ben's example is that for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4155">TS</a>]

01:09:23   excuse me I think it's pretty interesting is to compare apple today to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4163">TS</a>]

01:09:27   dupont from like a hundred years ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4167">TS</a>]

01:09:30   first we're well on our way to go to one department became huge by building one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4170">TS</a>]

01:09:34   doing one thing which is making gunpowder and then 371 now is popular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4174">TS</a>]

01:09:40   and then post-war they realized that gunpowder was a technical level very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4180">TS</a>]

01:09:47   similar to making paint and a lot of stuff needed to be repainted me as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4187">TS</a>]

01:09:52   world war one and so they decided to take a weary and see what seemed like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4192">TS</a>]

01:09:57   natural area of growth for the two-point company was expanded into making paint [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4197">TS</a>]

01:10:01   and it yet somehow they ended up losing tons of money on the paint business [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4201">TS</a>]

01:10:05   because of even though it was similar to manufacture the market was entirely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4205">TS</a>]

01:10:10   different right so selling gunpowder they would sell two massive fires like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4210">TS</a>]

01:10:15   uh well I mean obviously the military be effective as it was I let the bullets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4215">TS</a>]

01:10:20   yeah selling pain could be selling a monopod that are trying to like and how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4220">TS</a>]

01:10:26   sir there you know this my business kind of think very different very different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4226">TS</a>]

01:10:30   marketing very different packaging very different distributions games right and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4230">TS</a>]

01:10:35   and you know they ended up having to switch and so they switched to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4235">TS</a>]

01:10:39   a division division right so there's a paint division and gunpowder division in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4239">TS</a>]

01:10:43   it and it worked out and then that became the model for a big corporations [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4243">TS</a>]

01:10:50   ever since and then now apples soon as the exception as opposed to a hundred [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4250">TS</a>]

01:10:55   years ago where were apples functional arrangement would have seen more natural [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4255">TS</a>]

01:11:00   so the question is should Apple services be split out into a divisional dad this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4260">TS</a>]

01:11:07   is where this is the point of the whole point of Ben's thing is that this works [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4267">TS</a>]

01:11:11   great for apple with devices it is not working out well for them with services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4271">TS</a>]

01:11:15   and apple themselves their executives on the quarterly call like lat three months [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4275">TS</a>]

01:11:20   ago emphasize their efforts into services and it's Ben's argument is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4280">TS</a>]

01:11:28   they should really should split services out into a separate division even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4288">TS</a>]

01:11:32   account you know even do a separate profit and loss for that division and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4292">TS</a>]

01:11:37   not even i think ok well II equivalents on and a little bit but it equivocate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4297">TS</a>]

01:11:44   they should say but a separate profit loss would allow them to track the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4304">TS</a>]

01:11:49   progress of the services division separately from the product division i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4309">TS</a>]

01:11:57   can see I i I'm not entirely convinced that is right but I can definitely get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4317">TS</a>]

01:12:01   it i see that he might be and and the difference is that i think and I think I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4321">TS</a>]

01:12:07   you know I think he makes this . too but that the traditional divisional nature [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4327">TS</a>]

01:12:13   is what creates intercompany political conflict that blocks the data it often [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4333">TS</a>]

01:12:22   leads to this is why a company never tends to disrupt itself that if Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4342">TS</a>]

01:12:28   had a culture like that then the the iphone where they never would have even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4348">TS</a>]

01:12:33   debated whether it was the ipod division that would make the iphone because of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4353">TS</a>]

01:12:37   course they did because the ipod was the new hot thing at apple at the name and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4357">TS</a>]

01:12:41   then the ipod division might have made designed an iphone that was designed to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4361">TS</a>]

01:12:45   make sure that that didn't keep people from wanting to still buy an ipod [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4365">TS</a>]

01:12:50   and the little could just go forward a little bit more than the if there was an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4370">TS</a>]

01:12:55   iphone division and $STREET and steve jobs wanted to make a tablet they would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4375">TS</a>]

01:13:00   have been political and you know resistance within the company of but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4380">TS</a>]

01:13:04   what if these tablets make people not by as many iphones and so on and so forth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4384">TS</a>]

01:13:09   whenever the magnetization particular would say no way what about you know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4389">TS</a>]

01:13:13   macbook macbooks are the heart and soul in the only part of our business it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4393">TS</a>]

01:13:17   growing and clearly this tablet which you guys you've won even make a keyboard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4397">TS</a>]

01:13:22   for is something that's going to how could it not how can everyone of these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4402">TS</a>]

01:13:28   that you sell for only seven hundred and fifty dollars not mean that someone is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4408">TS</a>]

01:13:33   less likely to buy one of our things for $1,500 hey what I mean just look at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4413">TS</a>]

01:13:37   new smaller ipad pro with it just have a couple of days ago updated MacBook right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4417">TS</a>]

01:13:47   uh I don't know I they're very much seem to be in the same spectrum moment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4427">TS</a>]

01:13:54   without question [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4434">TS</a>]

01:13:55   I mean it's you know it's which one you prefer but it's in Hannah in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4435">TS</a>]

01:13:59   divisional and I you know I i know enough about apple in time you know and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4439">TS</a>]

01:14:04   I have enough friends who work there and you do to that i'm not arguing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4444">TS</a>]

01:14:08   Apple is a company without internal politics and without grumbling between [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4448">TS</a>]

01:14:12   people who work on this and people who work on that or people who even if the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4452">TS</a>]

01:14:17   what they're working on isn't isn't even in conflict with each other but a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4457">TS</a>]

01:14:22   times that the most astute critics of things within Apple that are subpar are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4462">TS</a>]

01:14:27   other people at Apple who work on something else who that the whole point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4467">TS</a>]

01:14:30   of the whole reason they work at Apple have a career Apple as they tend to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4470">TS</a>]

01:14:33   very talented people with very high standards for how stuff works that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4473">TS</a>]

01:14:37   get the Apple way I'd even remove the the provision that they work on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4477">TS</a>]

01:14:42   something else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4482">TS</a>]

01:14:43   yes honey i honestly think people that work at Apple or their own worst critics [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4483">TS</a>]

01:14:47   that's it that's a fantastic . that is this true [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4487">TS</a>]

01:14:50   honestly kind of what makes them write a great company right look at that kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4490">TS</a>]

01:14:54   the key right and that sometimes when you talk to people at Apple the people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4494">TS</a>]

01:14:58   who i think are the best and the people are my golf course of course you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4498">TS</a>]

01:15:01   successful at Apple are the people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4501">TS</a>]

01:15:03   you're exactly right they are the ones who know all the things that suck about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4503">TS</a>]

01:15:06   the thing that they work on and you say hey the new buddy call is really great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4506">TS</a>]

01:15:10   and they'll be like thanks but I mean come on and then they know everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4510">TS</a>]

01:15:13   that's wrong with it and it's like oh yeah of course you work at Apple and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4513">TS</a>]

01:15:16   people who want to brag about this stuff to work on your like you're not gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4516">TS</a>]

01:15:19   last long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4519">TS</a>]

01:15:20   yeah you know i mean we're talking on you and I think we were probably there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4520">TS</a>]

01:15:27   together we're talking to people worked on earlier iphones and telling them how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4527">TS</a>]

01:15:29   awesome that touch interaction is and then they're like oh my god i can get it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4529">TS</a>]

01:15:33   to go look if I do this in this way below 60 frames-per-second you can feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4533">TS</a>]

01:15:38   like they knew all the pads to get to do something that would make scrolling or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4538">TS</a>]

01:15:42   whatever drop any 60 frames per second and they're like that's the seduction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4542">TS</a>]

01:15:47   yeah you just built the weather always but the time it ships to on to the next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4547">TS</a>]

01:15:50   thing right exactly but that's exactly why they keep getting better you're over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4550">TS</a>]

01:15:53   here is that they're exhausted by the end it's there it's what it just as a I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4553">TS</a>]

01:15:59   don't know as a better metaphor a you did you cook ever use sometimes I cook a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4559">TS</a>]

01:16:05   few things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4565">TS</a>]

01:16:05   ok so you know when you cook and then you like okay whatever that back over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4565">TS</a>]

01:16:10   here as well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4570">TS</a>]

01:16:11   ok sorry but whatever when you cook something and then you're you're eating [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4571">TS</a>]

01:16:17   it and you're always there at the hallways and the harshest critic and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4577">TS</a>]

01:16:21   like a didn't work out so well I could have left this a little bit more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4581">TS</a>]

01:16:24   this could be a little bit more tender and everybody else is like would you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4584">TS</a>]

01:16:27   shut up and stop being a dick [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4587">TS</a>]

01:16:29   yes I'm trying to enjoy this you know the meal and I'm always like yeah maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4589">TS</a>]

01:16:33   next time I'll do this and that's just because that's the way of my words and i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4593">TS</a>]

01:16:39   think it apple with software or hardware think that's what you're thinking it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4599">TS</a>]

01:16:44   like okay that came out of the oven pretty good i'm happy clap that shift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4604">TS</a>]

01:16:49   now you know how do i improve on that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4609">TS</a>]

01:16:53   that's absolutely me does most of the cooking here and that's absolutely how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4613">TS</a>]

01:16:57   she is she's way wait she's our own harshest critic now and it's it to show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4617">TS</a>]

01:17:01   you if you're a good person a good worker who's focused on improving the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4621">TS</a>]

01:17:04   product that's the way your mindset has to be and if you're a sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4624">TS</a>]

01:17:08   self-centered person [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4628">TS</a>]

01:17:09   who's more worried about your own career or just just the way other people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4629">TS</a>]

01:17:14   perceive you because you your your you know if I can influence very already [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4634">TS</a>]

01:17:20   complex or something like that that then you're gonna you're gonna want to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4640">TS</a>]

01:17:24   people think that whatever you've done is awesome and perfect and you know and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4644">TS</a>]

01:17:28   laugh at the competition and stuff like that you can see left the country [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4648">TS</a>]

01:17:35   well yeah sometimes they suck but you know what I you know what I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4655">TS</a>]

01:17:38   totally know what you mean yeah it's like this there's a difference between [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4658">TS</a>]

01:17:41   laughing at them and discounting yeah you still I still sometimes meet people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4661">TS</a>]

01:17:46   at Apple who and I'm exaggerating but it in some degree seem to buy into the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4666">TS</a>]

01:17:51   where Apple whatever we do is going to be the best you know sort of thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4671">TS</a>]

01:17:56   that the exceptionalism of Apple is just that's just the rules of the game or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4676">TS</a>]

01:18:01   whatever Apple makes his excellent just because it's apple now that's not my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4681">TS</a>]

01:18:04   fear that's played hard and African what I'm exaggerating that that you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4684">TS</a>]

01:18:09   putting it in words like it but there's a certain mindset that you buy into that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4689">TS</a>]

01:18:12   even a little bit and it's I to me it's a very dangerous way of thinking and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4692">TS</a>]

01:18:17   it's a natural trap to fall into but the best people don't have that mindset I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4697">TS</a>]

01:18:26   let me interrupt the show breaking news to do to do to do the thing I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4706">TS</a>]

01:18:30   talking about the ethernet old-school not ethernet what's up before you turn [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4710">TS</a>]

01:18:34   it a local talk but it did work over ethernet either talk to while either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4714">TS</a>]

01:18:39   talk was like local talk over ethernet but that was expensive we couldn't do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4719">TS</a>]

01:18:43   that indoor anyway the name of the app was broadcast it was awesome it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4723">TS</a>]

01:18:51   awesome at four locations just put forward and hadn't guessed that one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4731">TS</a>]

01:18:55   broadcast all the good name that's a great name i will see i will do my best [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4735">TS</a>]

01:19:00   to find a link for the show notes that shows it so what do you think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4740">TS</a>]

01:19:10   about this service well I can kind of so-so in in a follow-up piece that is I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4750">TS</a>]

01:19:17   don't think its public at now is honest is a subscriber only newsletter which we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4757">TS</a>]

01:19:23   maybe you should ask him to make that given all the time of the few times he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4763">TS</a>]

01:19:27   really has have ever had anything like that whatever that now it's like a week [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4767">TS</a>]

01:19:30   old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4770">TS</a>]

01:19:31   I'll see what I can do yeah I'm you clarify some of his points he gets a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4771">TS</a>]

01:19:38   more detail into into his thinking and and also acknowledges some of the d de [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4778">TS</a>]

01:19:49   some trepidation I should say about like switching into it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4789">TS</a>]

01:19:55   switching and services into its own division but does bring out the point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4795">TS</a>]

01:20:01   that apple retail was Ryan has its own division for a long time right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4801">TS</a>]

01:20:06   because running in retail division is fundamentally different than winning you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4806">TS</a>]

01:20:13   know hardware/software organization is that not true phus services to yeah I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4813">TS</a>]

01:20:20   almost think that the online services are of a very closely analogous to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4820">TS</a>]

01:20:24   stores where the services are just glue that that that is there to make the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4824">TS</a>]

01:20:32   devices better the devices are still the fundamental business of the company and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4832">TS</a>]

01:20:37   the services are just a the stores are just a way to get more of the devices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4837">TS</a>]

01:20:42   sold and the services are just a way to make the devices better once you on them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4842">TS</a>]

01:20:47   it's like what the stores are before you have the new Apple device in your hand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4847">TS</a>]

01:20:52   the services are to what you do with it after you open it open it starting well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4852">TS</a>]

01:20:57   okay so it is where I don't know if I'm even playing devil's advocate but I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4857">TS</a>]

01:21:06   gonna come at this from a different aspect and the stores [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4866">TS</a>]

01:21:13   ok [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4873">TS</a>]

01:21:15   saying stories with just a way to push Mac products okay fine but are the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4875">TS</a>]

01:21:21   services just a way to push the devices or are they have things themselves well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4881">TS</a>]

01:21:27   as what Apple is kind of been saying but I think though that the all of it isn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4887">TS</a>]

01:21:34   further serving the apple brand as a whole right i mean because that's why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4894">TS</a>]

01:21:40   the stores are nice right there the nicest stores some of the nicest stores [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4900">TS</a>]

01:21:44   i've ever seen that sell any products anywhere in that that there is famously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4904">TS</a>]

01:21:49   don't go full Trump on this but they are they IM not IM just joking but and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4909">TS</a>]

01:21:54   they're very anti-trump Ian in their design yes sir [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4914">TS</a>]

01:21:58   yeah whether they're not or no opposite yeah they are you know architectural [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4918">TS</a>]

01:22:02   very minimalist I you know but that famously you know that the earlier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4922">TS</a>]

01:22:10   stores i don't think they use the same attorney more but they got a special [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4930">TS</a>]

01:22:13   kind of limestone from Italy that Steve Jobs had seen while while traveling in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4933">TS</a>]

01:22:17   Europe and all sorts of crazy stuff that they do to make every detail right now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4937">TS</a>]

01:22:21   it's not like hey let's there's no sense of cheaping out in the stores and i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4941">TS</a>]

01:22:25   think that the services should be the same way where it's not like well this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4945">TS</a>]

01:22:29   is just an afterthought to help that I think they should they should be thought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4949">TS</a>]

01:22:32   of as these things that are first-class parts of the Apple brand and the Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4952">TS</a>]

01:22:38   you know customer experience [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4958">TS</a>]

01:22:40   ok so what are the surfaces can you write them i guess that sounded like I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4960">TS</a>]

01:22:48   challenging you i don't i'm honestly I'm like okay what are they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4968">TS</a>]

01:22:52   well the ones area one area where I disagree with Ben and we do it on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4972">TS</a>]

01:22:56   podcast occasionally is he has a lower opinion of apples online services than I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4976">TS</a>]

01:23:01   do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4981">TS</a>]

01:23:02   I actually think apples online services are a lot better than they get credit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4982">TS</a>]

01:23:05   for and I think in many cases many cases suffer from just that the notion the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4985">TS</a>]

01:23:14   basic notion that people believe Apple makes great devices and creamy services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4994">TS</a>]

01:23:17   and by starting with that framework in their mind they're a lot more likely to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/4997">TS</a>]

01:23:22   have a two to focus on the negative aspects of of Apple services and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5002">TS</a>]

01:23:26   secondly some of them suffer from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5006">TS</a>]

01:23:29   a bad first impression when maps is a great example of that where a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5009">TS</a>]

01:23:34   people some people and and real-world usage Apple maps is off the charts its [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5014">TS</a>]

01:23:38   way by far and away the most popular map service for iphone and iOS users and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5018">TS</a>]

01:23:46   part of that is just by nature of being pre-installed but secondarily it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5026">TS</a>]

01:23:50   gotten a lot better and I am i arguing that is it is as good as Google Maps no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5030">TS</a>]

01:23:57   but i don't i don't use google maps anymore just because I never I never you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5037">TS</a>]

01:24:02   know that that whole like i'll keep the app installed because if Apple maps lets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5042">TS</a>]

01:24:06   me down i use google maps that hasn't happened to me in forever at least since [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5046">TS</a>]

01:24:10   the transit came to New York and Apple maps and I think in arguably anybody who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5050">TS</a>]

01:24:16   looked at Apple maps just the general state of how much is mapped into much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5056">TS</a>]

01:24:19   detail its it much improved so i'm not i'm not as down on services overall and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5059">TS</a>]

01:24:26   maps is just one example but anything like that map's I message iCloud more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5066">TS</a>]

01:24:32   wait let's so let's take I message as a as a service the value proposition have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5072">TS</a>]

01:24:42   I message is that it's encrypted and to end and it works across all your devices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5082">TS</a>]

01:24:48   and that's all you iOS devices and your Mac okay all your Apple devices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5088">TS</a>]

01:24:55   how do you ensure it that is true if like how do you put that into web [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5095">TS</a>]

01:25:00   browser [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5100">TS</a>]

01:25:01   I don't think this should I wouldn't ok so that limits the value of the service [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5101">TS</a>]

01:25:06   to write the Apple devices right that's what i'm saying is i see like Heidi [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5106">TS</a>]

01:25:09   breakout services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5109">TS</a>]

01:25:11   apart from the devices that they support right I see what you mean you're saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5111">TS</a>]

01:25:14   you know i can t make a division that is all about so Microsoft did it and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5114">TS</a>]

01:25:19   you were on board for it with a sure where they could just be like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5119">TS</a>]

01:25:25   what screw windows and office which is going to make an awesome service [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5125">TS</a>]

01:25:29   yeah that's different than what Apple can do with the services that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5129">TS</a>]

01:25:35   currently run because they seem a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5135">TS</a>]

01:25:39   you know quite integrated with the you know the devices or at least the notion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5139">TS</a>]

01:25:45   that they have trusted endpoint and it's it kind of conflicted you're going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5145">TS</a>]

01:25:51   start saying hey and you report your own profit and loss and you're not allowed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5151">TS</a>]

01:25:56   to expand to windows or android right web are are you cutting you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5156">TS</a>]

01:26:02   youryour that becomes a strategy Jackson like you're cutting them off at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5162">TS</a>]

01:26:06   knees [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5166">TS</a>]

01:26:06   you're saying we're going to count we're going to we want you to be as profitable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5166">TS</a>]

01:26:08   as you can but where we're setting rules that will prevent you from being as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5168">TS</a>]

01:26:12   profitable as as you could be as it just as an independent entity because we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5172">TS</a>]

01:26:16   think it serves the company's interests over all right and I don't think they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5176">TS</a>]

01:26:22   face that with the detail because it couldn't really conflict with air [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5182">TS</a>]

01:26:31   yeah there weren't any rules there weren't at the water any strategy tax [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5191">TS</a>]

01:26:34   type rules imposed upon the apple store that held them back right for example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5194">TS</a>]

01:26:39   they're not sure that if Ron Johnson back in the day had said to Steve Jobs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5199">TS</a>]

01:26:44   hey I some of these people are coming in and they want to buy windows laptops to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5204">TS</a>]

01:26:49   can we sell some dell windows you know Dell laptops on the table across from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5209">TS</a>]

01:26:54   the powerbooks and jobs would have said you're fired right but he wouldn't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5214">TS</a>]

01:26:59   done that actually it did that actually wouldn't have actually helped the apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5219">TS</a>]

01:27:03   stores make more money that if it's in theory I you could see out you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5223">TS</a>]

01:27:07   turning it into more of like a best buy where they sell anything and everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5227">TS</a>]

01:27:10   defeats the whole purpose which was to focus you know that by putting all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5230">TS</a>]

01:27:15   apple stuff together and showing that it was different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5235">TS</a>]

01:27:18   actually made it more likely that they would sell them but they did sell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5238">TS</a>]

01:27:20   accessories that went on apple and even competed with apple stuff like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5240">TS</a>]

01:27:25   headphones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5245">TS</a>]

01:27:26   yeah yeah they still do ya still did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5246">TS</a>]

01:27:32   and I'm gonna take a lot of beads which is the biggest one but they don't impose [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5252">TS</a>]

01:27:36   a rule on the that you can only sell apple stuff like headphones you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5256">TS</a>]

01:27:40   it's we can't you can't sell a book this was the book that jobs got yanked the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5260">TS</a>]

01:27:46   house was one a long time ago i forget which it yeah I was funny just what I'd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5266">TS</a>]

01:27:56   I honestly admire dick did just preciousness of that kind of stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5276">TS</a>]

01:28:01   why didn't did they used to sell books is that I don't know I but I mean you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5281">TS</a>]

01:28:07   remember the story i'm sure you've heard about it right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5287">TS</a>]

01:28:11   I do remember what I mean it wasn't even that long ago but I remember when I used [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5291">TS</a>]

01:28:15   to sell tons and tons of box software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5295">TS</a>]

01:28:17   yeah yeah well some of your friends like on me and that you know shit like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5297">TS</a>]

01:28:23   delicious monster had some stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5303">TS</a>]

01:28:25   oh yeah we're definitely know people who had I think BP and it was still on in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5305">TS</a>]

01:28:29   boxes at the time yeah yeah I'm Karen fact I know that BB at some point was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5309">TS</a>]

01:28:35   still in the box and when it was in a box it was in the apple store's security [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5315">TS</a>]

01:28:39   text box software is a herd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5319">TS</a>]

01:28:43   I mean people hit the App Store wow the thirty percent rockstar than thirty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5323">TS</a>]

01:28:48   percent you lose on the app store is nothing compared to what you lost $MONEY [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5328">TS</a>]

01:28:51   in bonds software examine we could do all show about it but it's and you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5331">TS</a>]

01:28:55   it from the games too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5335">TS</a>]

01:28:57   I mean it was exactly the same probably even worse because that there was more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5337">TS</a>]

01:29:01   money involved or it but it i mean you literally buying spots to be like how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5341">TS</a>]

01:29:08   much money is it going to cost us to have it at Foot level part of the reason [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5348">TS</a>]

01:29:12   that like not even I level like foot level it's a protection racket is it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5352">TS</a>]

01:29:16   yeah it was like okay we'll take it but we're only we're going to put it on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5356">TS</a>]

01:29:20   bottom shelf which is like ankle level was really got to talk to him into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5360">TS</a>]

01:29:24   taking it right like dinners and like and like just flirty girls like to hold [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5364">TS</a>]

01:29:32   it was it's a nightmare but the night like talking to sales did shake not cool [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5372">TS</a>]

01:29:39   I'm glad all of that aspect is gone but at the same time it's like still not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5379">TS</a>]

01:29:45   great in terms of actually getting you know the way the absolute working with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5385">TS</a>]

01:29:51   this I don't want my box at the ankle level well then you have to pay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5391">TS</a>]

01:29:57   yeah and it was exactly why a person I'm not a jagged basement and there was no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5397">TS</a>]

01:30:03   way to sell like even a relatively small app that you knew would appeal to like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5403">TS</a>]

01:30:08   consumers and that you'd want to be like a consumer-friendly price there was no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5408">TS</a>]

01:30:11   way to like price it accordingly because so much money came off the top that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5411">TS</a>]

01:30:15   had to charge like $75 that just as a starting point if not more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5415">TS</a>]

01:30:22   I don't we can come back to let me take a break and thank our next sponsor it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5422">TS</a>]

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01:32:29   to them from here from the show so my thanks to squarespace yeah I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5549">TS</a>]

01:32:34   back to whether or not agree with them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5554">TS</a>]

01:32:36   I don't know it makes a good case maybe the answer is sort of a half-and-half [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5556">TS</a>]

01:32:41   and I don't know maybe that's stupid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5561">TS</a>]

01:32:43   maybe I'm trying to have it both ways but maybe i would say not so much the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5563">TS</a>]

01:32:48   profit-and-loss aspect of it and again I message is another example how are they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5568">TS</a>]

01:32:53   supposed to make money money on my message [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5573">TS</a>]

01:32:55   there's no money you know but if you know compared to these other chat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5575">TS</a>]

01:33:00   services like what's happened and we chat and stuff like that i think if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5580">TS</a>]

01:33:04   broke my message i mean they can strategically there is no way to break [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5584">TS</a>]

01:33:08   it out but just in terms of daily active users which is like this measurement [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5588">TS</a>]

01:33:11   term that you know investors love to hear at least at the moment I message is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5591">TS</a>]

01:33:16   worth billions but there's no real way that they have a plan to make money [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5596">TS</a>]

01:33:20   they're not going to start shooting ads through I message and i think i think if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5600">TS</a>]

01:33:24   anything at I message is one of the most obvious a soda-can arguments to breaking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5604">TS</a>]

01:33:34   and services out from the rest of the company and in that getting have blue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5614">TS</a>]

01:33:44   balloon is awesome [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5624">TS</a>]

01:33:46   yeah and I message being part of the iphone experiences is huge here it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5626">TS</a>]

01:33:54   and and so in one in so in his first piece band argues that people buy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5634">TS</a>]

01:33:59   iphones for the software and hardware and I agree but I message is a big thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5639">TS</a>]

01:34:05   for me it really is i remember texting you back in the day and will cost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5645">TS</a>]

01:34:10   seventy-five cents a text right because we're across the international border [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5650">TS</a>]

01:34:15   crossing international borders talking about mad men or whatever and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5655">TS</a>]

01:34:20   racked up pretty quick and I like you but I don't like you that much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5660">TS</a>]

01:34:25   that's a dollar yeah but ya know I message fix that so that's great and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5665">TS</a>]

01:34:33   yeah sure whats app could and like a bunch of other stuff but I I think I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5673">TS</a>]

01:34:40   message is one of those things that ties closely to iOS or Apple devices did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5680">TS</a>]

01:34:47   argues for a better into creation of services with apple products the whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5687">TS</a>]

01:34:54   thing about preferring blue bubbles to green bubbles even if you take cost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5694">TS</a>]

01:34:58   aside even if it's us to us and so you know that it's out of your jacket is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5698">TS</a>]

01:35:03   obviously subjective it bothers some people because it's sort of a if not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5703">TS</a>]

01:35:10   classism it is some sort of a try to listen yet tribal as about say tried [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5710">TS</a>]

01:35:18   mentality so you same thing tribalism which it just is innately offensive or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5718">TS</a>]

01:35:24   maybe offensive is too strong a word but people object to it and for good reason [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5724">TS</a>]

01:35:28   right that human beings have this natural instinct to be tribal and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5728">TS</a>]

01:35:33   that sort of thinking that leads if you take it to the extreme to you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5733">TS</a>]

01:35:38   intolerance if not outright racism bigotry bigotry of what you want what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5738">TS</a>]

01:35:44   have you that that you really have to be conscious of it all the way up to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5744">TS</a>]

01:35:46   top level and that therefore it's it's just unsavory and I get that I really do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5746">TS</a>]

01:35:51   I joke about the blue bubbles and green bubble sometimes but I get it when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5751">TS</a>]

01:35:54   there's people who really you know push back on that I do get just I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5754">TS</a>]

01:36:00   I honestly don't think that was an intentional design decision in order to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5760">TS</a>]

01:36:05   ostracise anybody know I don't know either i think that Katie's once across [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5765">TS</a>]

01:36:08   some money and these ones aren't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5768">TS</a>]

01:36:10   yeah and i think it was worth knowing you know who had them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5770">TS</a>]

01:36:14   yeah but there's an interesting objective version you know not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5774">TS</a>]

01:36:18   subjective but object of advantage to it at least one which is that you know that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5778">TS</a>]

01:36:28   the emoji you send are going to look the same i just saw an article this week I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5788">TS</a>]

01:36:32   didn't link to it i don't know why i didn't do it from during fire but there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5792">TS</a>]

01:36:34   was an article that somebody did a study that showed that people interpret it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5794">TS</a>]

01:36:40   emoji from different platforms differently and that means certain code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5800">TS</a>]

01:36:43   points like you know it's like face with the you know grinning teeth and it it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5803">TS</a>]

01:36:50   has a different emotional effect you know based on the iOS version of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5810">TS</a>]

01:36:54   compared to the Android or Twitter right and you know just subtle cues and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5814">TS</a>]

01:36:59   just some of the each vendor that map [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5819">TS</a>]

01:37:02   I don't know if everybody know is getting it like what you see on your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5822">TS</a>]

01:37:05   screen is not what somebody else sees on their screen right hand and face with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5825">TS</a>]

01:37:09   gleaming teeth on your screen may look I don't I don't know this but like let's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5829">TS</a>]

01:37:16   say like the two buck teeth on the other screen like so it looks like you're just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5836">TS</a>]

01:37:22   having us wide smile on your screen but you look like you're sending it like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5842">TS</a>]

01:37:28   hick right of stereotypical hick in Oregon to the other person on the screen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5848">TS</a>]

01:37:34   and a when you're dealing with a particularly dense communication stream [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5854">TS</a>]

01:37:43   like emoticons that becomes problematic right right users and I don't know that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5863">TS</a>]

01:37:48   maybe people don't worry about it or I do a little bit cuz i find i always you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5868">TS</a>]

01:37:53   know I mean it's a shocker given my career I really it pains me to think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5873">TS</a>]

01:37:58   that I'm not commit you know people aren't understanding what i'm trying to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5878">TS</a>]

01:38:02   communicate as clearly as possible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5882">TS</a>]

01:38:05   and have you given into murder constant chat i don't think we do it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5885">TS</a>]

01:38:11   no i-i've never did I and an emoji of save me from it i've never really was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5891">TS</a>]

01:38:16   big user of of like the the ascii art you know smiley faces i mean IDK i'm not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5896">TS</a>]

01:38:21   going to say I never sent them but I've just found them to be too silly so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5901">TS</a>]

01:38:27   didn't and yeah I think he used them with my I use emojis though I use emoji [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5907">TS</a>]

01:38:32   now you know i'm not going to say like a teenager but I you know use it quite a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5912">TS</a>]

01:38:35   bit using more slack than anywhere else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5915">TS</a>]

01:38:38   yeah I use them on Twitter know sometimes I don't give a lot of thumbs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5918">TS</a>]

01:38:42   up on Twitter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5922">TS</a>]

01:38:44   oh yeah yeah because it's i find it to be exceptionally efficient you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5924">TS</a>]

01:38:49   yeah that's what that's one there's one that across-the-board nobody's going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5929">TS</a>]

01:38:52   misinterpret it doesn't matter how you drive a thumbs up or thumbs down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5932">TS</a>]

01:38:55   yeah it's kind of a sailboat like yeah I mean yeah I find it to be it's it's it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5935">TS</a>]

01:39:02   a great addition to our you know it'sit's it said you know obviously I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5942">TS</a>]

01:39:06   thought it was silly at first consignment curmudgeon but once I opened [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5946">TS</a>]

01:39:10   my mind to it I really thought this is great this is a great improvement and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5950">TS</a>]

01:39:13   much better than ask yard you know colon going a friend its coverage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5953">TS</a>]

01:39:18   yeah i mean if I'm writing something there's no way I'm going to use it if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5958">TS</a>]

01:39:22   I'm reacting to something I feel better but I don't have ever spoken about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5962">TS</a>]

01:39:27   in recent years i have spoken too i think you you would know you're closer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5967">TS</a>]

01:39:31   reader to know that in my writing I don't really use a lot of exclamation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5971">TS</a>]

01:39:34   marks no very yeah but in like email come on two hands an email i use them a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5974">TS</a>]

01:39:40   lot i use what i consider to be the friendly be friendly ! work and here's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5980">TS</a>]

01:39:47   perfect example and it's a very common example is people often send me typo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5987">TS</a>]

01:39:54   reports maybe I've spelled a word wrong where I've made a little mark down here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5994">TS</a>]

01:39:57   or error in the post where I i used the wrong parentheses or I missed missed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/5997">TS</a>]

01:40:02   something and you see you know like a raw URL that's clearly supposed to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6002">TS</a>]

01:40:07   hyperlink and people will email me or Twitter be you know and say you got a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6007">TS</a>]

01:40:11   typo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6011">TS</a>]

01:40:11   well a lot of people it'sit's don't think everybody knows this it consider [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6011">TS</a>]

01:40:17   correcting someone spelling or punctuation on dinner [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6017">TS</a>]

01:40:19   not to be a faux pas at your you the person pointing out the error or the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6019">TS</a>]

01:40:23   jerk because you're pointing out you know I i love it i have i would rather [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6023">TS</a>]

01:40:28   have a hundred people tell me about a spelling error matter and daring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6028">TS</a>]

01:40:31   fireball then to have it go on corrected because everybody thinks it's you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6031">TS</a>]

01:40:36   either either thinks I'm sure someone else told him or I don't want to be the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6036">TS</a>]

01:40:40   jerk to tell to tell John that he has an airtight so and i try to I can't hide [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6040">TS</a>]

01:40:45   sometimes sometimes and if i post and then go make coffee or go run an errand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6045">TS</a>]

01:40:49   and it's that the error is up for an hour I get a lot of them and it's almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6049">TS</a>]

01:40:54   I'd like I can't be bothered to thank everybody but if i fix it right away i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6054">TS</a>]

01:40:58   try to thank everybody and I'll often right fixed comma thanks and put an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6058">TS</a>]

01:41:03   exclamation mark after the thanks because to me that reads as very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6063">TS</a>]

01:41:07   friendly and unambiguously what do I mean by fixed comma thanks ! to me it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6067">TS</a>]

01:41:14   I don't know it's just maybe the way i read that ! it's fixed and a genuine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6074">TS</a>]

01:41:19   thanks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6079">TS</a>]

01:41:19   whereas if I wrote fixed comma thanks . I can see how that would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6079">TS</a>]

01:41:24   misinterpreted naughty as yes as dry ya fiction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6084">TS</a>]

01:41:28   thanks yeah thanks for me thanks I think I think you only ever send me fixed the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6088">TS</a>]

01:41:34   additive you that I don't care it's not you know give me but I just because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6094">TS</a>]

01:41:40   don't need it and I find and I added and and it years ago I mean I don't know how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6100">TS</a>]

01:41:46   many years ago I started doing that but it was uncomfortable with it because I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6106">TS</a>]

01:41:50   so uncomfortable with exclamation part more points to be to be at to me a false [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6110">TS</a>]

01:41:56   sense of familiarity and friend yes you know and and to me and for example in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6116">TS</a>]

01:42:01   marketing materials almost every single ! that's used in any marketing material [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6121">TS</a>]

01:42:07   is terrible it's a terrible and it means that whoever is is is Right doing a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6127">TS</a>]

01:42:12   copywriting is full of shit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6132">TS</a>]

01:42:14   it is is it is exactly why some people think the word marketing is a dirty word [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6134">TS</a>]

01:42:18   and all good brands you know with good marketing either never use exclamation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6138">TS</a>]

01:42:24   marks or almost never and when they do there's some kind of good argument for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6144">TS</a>]

01:42:29   right but find me an ad from BMW with an exclamation mark and finally an ad from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6149">TS</a>]

01:42:33   apple with an exclamation mark and it's nearly impossible so anybody out there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6153">TS</a>]

01:42:38   and it's 80 and it's awful also a rookie mistake it's a mistake that someone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6158">TS</a>]

01:42:41   makes doing their own marketing when they're not used to doing marketing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6161">TS</a>]

01:42:44   because they think that their infusing the material with enthusiasm when what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6164">TS</a>]

01:42:49   they're really infusing it with his bullshit and an air of desperation and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6169">TS</a>]

01:42:56   says yeah yeah because they could say something completely accurate right but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6176">TS</a>]

01:43:01   when you put an exclamation mark it's like you're trying to really call [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6181">TS</a>]

01:43:04   something out but i agree with you in casual communication and especially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6184">TS</a>]

01:43:10   these days you know it just a friendly way being like oh thanks I get it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6190">TS</a>]

01:43:18   long story single-leg mean it's it's a modifier if you reading it out line at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6198">TS</a>]

01:43:24   out loud it's a modifier on the way that that sound should be right like it goes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6204">TS</a>]

01:43:32   up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6212">TS</a>]

01:43:32   yeah well thanks oh thanks yes different 2 and as I do more podcasts as they do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6212">TS</a>]

01:43:39   priority i don't really do a lot of podcasts plural but as I podcast more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6219">TS</a>]

01:43:42   and more i have grown lazy and my writing not lazy but I've grown to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6222">TS</a>]

01:43:47   appreciate the fact that i can use inflection on a podcast in a way that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6227">TS</a>]

01:43:52   takes a lot more mental effort in prose to continue to be unambiguous about that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6232">TS</a>]

01:43:58   you know whether you're being sarcastic or not or something and when you need to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6238">TS</a>]

01:44:01   set up also a I think it doesn't help you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6241">TS</a>]

01:44:06   ok that's a bad way to start a sentence but it doesn't help you that like a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6246">TS</a>]

01:44:11   of year in your linked list it's like one word you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6251">TS</a>]

01:44:16   yeah the towards basically so if you then write with gravity its red in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6256">TS</a>]

01:44:24   same voices like these one word retorts that you use in England list [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6264">TS</a>]

01:44:29   mmm yeah i've used emoji on during fireball few times to just like twice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6269">TS</a>]

01:44:35   though happy i miss that at him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6275">TS</a>]

01:44:38   I need a better way to do it what's that is that had my dad's side I need to look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6278">TS</a>]

01:44:43   into it there is some sort of i wouldn't not that i would use it frequently but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6283">TS</a>]

01:44:46   there but part of what makes me unlikely to use it frequently is the whole issue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6286">TS</a>]

01:44:50   of avenging grab the rendering and not even being able to control the long-term [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6290">TS</a>]

01:44:55   rendering on apple and iOS devices soonest if and when they're ever going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6295">TS</a>]

01:44:58   to redraw some of the some of the class yeah happy face could be a swastika like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6298">TS</a>]

01:45:02   next weekend you have no control right trying to see that I just sent you a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6302">TS</a>]

01:45:10   link to this bird story on the study that shows people interpreting emoji [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6310">TS</a>]

01:45:15   differently in the way it's the one with gritting teeth is a really good one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6315">TS</a>]

01:45:18   because it's on all the other platforms and I don't know exactly which what the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6318">TS</a>]

01:45:22   name of the it's grinning face with smiling eyes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6322">TS</a>]

01:45:26   yeah I and apples glyph makes it look like somebody who is man I you ciera [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6326">TS</a>]

01:45:34   keith it's not a smile and it's almost like you've just said the wrong thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6334">TS</a>]

01:45:38   right right like like the look you would give if you just mentioned somebody's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6338">TS</a>]

01:45:43   son or like their mother hey how's your mother and then like something you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6343">TS</a>]

01:45:48   all of a sudden you remember that their mother died recently [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6348">TS</a>]

01:45:51   yeah something like that that the sort of green you would make in that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6351">TS</a>]

01:45:55   situation is seething like sorry about that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6355">TS</a>]

01:45:58   whereas the microsoft samsung LG and Google ones are all unambiguously a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6358">TS</a>]

01:46:04   toothy smile you know it's all happy they're all happy perfect example and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6364">TS</a>]

01:46:10   there is there's a value I message in the fact that you and maybe people don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6370">TS</a>]

01:46:14   think about it consciously but you're you're you know what the other person is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6374">TS</a>]

01:46:18   going to see what weight between that mean that I message should normalize to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6378">TS</a>]

01:46:29   what is evident i personally i prefer the apple logo i think it looks at days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6389">TS</a>]

01:46:35   and it's useful it's usable anyway that and I don't think that there's an it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6395">TS</a>]

01:46:38   useful but doesn't match the grinning face with smiling eyes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6398">TS</a>]

01:46:43   well the other descriptions emoji even but even with the other ones this study [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6403">TS</a>]

01:46:47   a sign you know old people on whether they think this is a negative [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6407">TS</a>]

01:46:51   connotation or positive kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6411">TS</a>]

01:46:52   station of the glove even among the other ones there's a fairly wide variety [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6412">TS</a>]

01:46:56   they're all positive and apples is- don't- that group to wait closer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6416">TS</a>]

01:46:59   together did but but there's a difference like the difference between [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6419">TS</a>]

01:47:02   Microsoft and Google is over over a point on a 5-point scale i agree that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6422">TS</a>]

01:47:07   there's my god a you come on do know the Bible Atlas is a four-point difference [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6427">TS</a>]

01:47:13   between Microsoft and Apple in the negative Direction no no I'm not trying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6433">TS</a>]

01:47:17   to argue that on the case of this particular one that Apple is not an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6437">TS</a>]

01:47:21   outlier and i know i'm not i'm not arguing about it but I'm saying though I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6441">TS</a>]

01:47:26   even not counting Apple it's interesting to me that the ones who agree on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6446">TS</a>]

01:47:31   basic sense of it still have a different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6451">TS</a>]

01:47:34   oh sure I that that and I think for most of the emoji that that's probably the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6454">TS</a>]

01:47:40   case i don't think any know i think most of them there is no outlier but there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6460">TS</a>]

01:47:44   still a agree the other thing is context a emerging very suddenly make sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6464">TS</a>]

01:47:55   without any words random right at least context of in in a conversation so while [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6475">TS</a>]

01:48:02   you could look at like madden what this tested and say okay what do you think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6482">TS</a>]

01:48:07   about each one of these emoji you could feel totally different given the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6487">TS</a>]

01:48:12   researchers surveyed online respondents on how they interpreted the emojis [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6492">TS</a>]

01:48:16   sentiment rating it on a scale from negative 5 strongly negative 2 plus 5 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6496">TS</a>]

01:48:20   strongly positive i have you know what okay what I don't think I've ever uses [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6500">TS</a>]

01:48:28   happen emoji I our friend of the show pocket fastest he likes to use that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6508">TS</a>]

01:48:34   emoji as I as there as a person who is eight and observer of the uncomfortable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6514">TS</a>]

01:48:44   aspects of life [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6524">TS</a>]

01:48:45   yeah right the impossible is what that says right he likes to document you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6525">TS</a>]

01:48:51   that sort of with the weird and you know on on his one foot tsunami and yeah in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6531">TS</a>]

01:48:57   personal correspondence he will often you know is if I I that's one person I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6537">TS</a>]

01:49:02   know who has sent me that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6542">TS</a>]

01:49:03   LG but goodies face with smiling eyes is the name of that emoji do you think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6543">TS</a>]

01:49:13   Apple has accurately be rendered that notion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6553">TS</a>]

01:49:16   no I think not although so I male like the but although uncomfortable and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6556">TS</a>]

01:49:22   totally into yeah i think the problem with it is that it doesn't what it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6562">TS</a>]

01:49:28   the eyes it's the grin because to me a grin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6568">TS</a>]

01:49:31   I mean yeah maybe i'm wrong me but I to me a grim implies the smile that grin is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6571">TS</a>]

01:49:36   a subset of a smile [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6576">TS</a>]

01:49:37   whereas that is absolutely not a smile now that's the ticket [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6577">TS</a>]

01:49:42   that's it drawn to you tuesday nights like this should be if like the name of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6582">TS</a>]

01:49:46   that emoji should be embarrassed to sake [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6586">TS</a>]

01:49:49   yeah yeah at which I really i firmly believe is it perfectly valid emoji to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6589">TS</a>]

01:49:57   have yeah and that's a great representation of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6597">TS</a>]

01:50:01   yeah here's the definite dictionary definition of grin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6601">TS</a>]

01:50:05   it is a smile broadly especially in an unrestored manner with the mouth open [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6605">TS</a>]

01:50:09   tennis appears the example Dennis appeared grinning use cheerfully as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6609">TS</a>]

01:50:16   noun it is a broad smile so dad definitely I think that I think that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6616">TS</a>]

01:50:22   winning team is in accurately rendered but now it's too late or is it I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6622">TS</a>]

01:50:27   know because if they change it then all sorts of things that all sorts of ways [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6627">TS</a>]

01:50:32   that it's already been used are changed meaning until you talkin to and that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6632">TS</a>]

01:50:39   the problem right emoji are words that when i send them to you change meaning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6639">TS</a>]

01:50:45   for the show's really I've I love her like I love it but its northern it says [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6645">TS</a>]

01:50:52   this is nowhere near the list and stuff we're getting into the lung linguistics [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6652">TS</a>]

01:50:55   i love it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6655">TS</a>]

01:50:56   I yeah and that is sort of the there is an advantage there to the old-school [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6656">TS</a>]

01:51:01   ascii emoticon artwork where it's a little bit a little bit more defined [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6661">TS</a>]

01:51:06   right like your semicolon might look different than my semicolon but I still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6666">TS</a>]

01:51:11   yeah i know stupid Winky when I see it right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6671">TS</a>]

01:51:16   a-and leaving now we got here a little so well for you . my message and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6676">TS</a>]

01:51:27   services and whether they should be broken apart and so we get asked i also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6687">TS</a>]

01:51:31   wonder I here at that one specifically morning and as I and I as I wonder that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6691">TS</a>]

01:51:41   the that's actually that the one we're talking about i'm looking at the study [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6701">TS</a>]

01:51:46   now I should that I'll link to this study in in the show notes i promise i'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6706">TS</a>]

01:51:50   copying basing now they have examples of the ones with the biggest Delta's though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6710">TS</a>]

01:51:55   gritting teeth one is not only his apple an outlier as the emoji that particular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6715">TS</a>]

01:52:00   the the distance from which that it there's no other emoji that they studied [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6720">TS</a>]

01:52:05   that has a spread like that it just means something different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6725">TS</a>]

01:52:09   yeah it's actually and I think concentrating on that one in particular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6729">TS</a>]

01:52:12   actually you lose the general context of the study which is that even with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6732">TS</a>]

01:52:17   ones where they're generally all compliant with the description people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6737">TS</a>]

01:52:21   have a different interpretation of of what they mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6741">TS</a>]

01:52:25   intern at least the sentiment of being positive and right which i think is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6745">TS</a>]

01:52:28   super interesting . you know that I think the verge and it's not a knock but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6748">TS</a>]

01:52:36   you know whatever they picked the most illustrative . because it's easier to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6756">TS</a>]

01:52:40   write about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6760">TS</a>]

01:52:41   well yeah I mean look at that you know that's clearly an outlier and that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6761">TS</a>]

01:52:47   know makes you want to kind of learn more about it so it's really nice and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6767">TS</a>]

01:52:51   knock on them but it's like it really illustrates it look people on different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6771">TS</a>]

01:52:55   platforms will see different things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6775">TS</a>]

01:52:57   yeah Ben Thompson's but if he's listening if he does listen to the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6777">TS</a>]

01:53:01   he's probably screaming at us that we're not talking about stickers which has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6781">TS</a>]

01:53:05   been a big ben's a big fan and study or of the chat services the ones that are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6785">TS</a>]

01:53:09   cross-platform like what's happened wechat those things have these things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6789">TS</a>]

01:53:15   called stickers which are like emoji but their custom to the service and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6795">TS</a>]

01:53:20   just sending an image like an emoji and you know maybe around the holiday [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6800">TS</a>]

01:53:25   they'll come out with a custom a whole set of them about Christmas so instead [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6805">TS</a>]

01:53:28   of just like an emoji [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6808">TS</a>]

01:53:29   you've got like Santa Claus on Christmas tree you could have a whole set of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6809">TS</a>]

01:53:32   stickers all about christmas or or whatever or the world how is so down on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6812">TS</a>]

01:53:36   that but you know what would it wouldn't you know that i talked to more slack and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6816">TS</a>]

01:53:46   sometimes I don't even care that it actually respond to him but I'll do one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6826">TS</a>]

01:53:50   of those reaction emoji exactly and i have been you kind of got me on this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6830">TS</a>]

01:53:55   sticker stuff so I don't know I you know the more i talk about it with you and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6835">TS</a>]

01:54:05   more I'm starting to disagree with him I want to scream the end I should get a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6845">TS</a>]

01:54:09   money shot because he sees you he won't he's never done the show you has he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6849">TS</a>]

01:54:14   yeah we talked about it is i'm pretty sure he's gonna make sure let me look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6854">TS</a>]

01:54:20   the archives it's gonna bet it's like three times at least in all right ten [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6860">TS</a>]

01:54:34   times and it's now maybe five maybe I just search for Thompson on the page and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6874">TS</a>]

01:54:41   it shows up it'll show up twice for each one because I mention them in the title [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6881">TS</a>]

01:54:45   and so yeah it took you know what he's never doing it again didn't know tell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6885">TS</a>]

01:54:52   you that right now didn't actually forget he's been on twice since august [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6892">TS</a>]

01:54:55   last year and is probably more often than i am probably and four times in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6895">TS</a>]

01:55:01   last year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6901">TS</a>]

01:55:03   what about Apple music is an apple music already sort of a standalone out man [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6903">TS</a>]

01:55:12   and they they have to sort of do profit and loss on that I mean they know how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6912">TS</a>]

01:55:17   many subscribers they are and I know how much they're paying you know whether [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6917">TS</a>]

01:55:21   they actually count it and in and hold it accountable and have goals for it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6921">TS</a>]

01:55:26   you're getting fired if you don't meet this the way some people would some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6926">TS</a>]

01:55:30   companies winner divisions surely they know exactly how much Apple music is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6930">TS</a>]

01:55:35   making and how much it's costing and therefore they know whether it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6935">TS</a>]

01:55:38   profitable or not and they know what the Delta is month-to-month I mean and we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6938">TS</a>]

01:55:43   know it because they leak things like the number of customers you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6943">TS</a>]

01:55:47   subscribers it's very very committed hey I honestly it's like so bad and getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6947">TS</a>]

01:55:54   getting back to the press tags a benz basic argument is that whatever gets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6954">TS</a>]

01:55:59   measured gets fixed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6959">TS</a>]

01:56:01   there's no way they don't know if Apple music is making losing money and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6961">TS</a>]

01:56:08   not that they say that they don't have profit and loss in the company is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6968">TS</a>]

01:56:15   they be port one level of profit and loss right which is a very different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6975">TS</a>]

01:56:20   thing I don't think that means internally that they don't worry about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6980">TS</a>]

01:56:25   this kind of stuff and I message right i don't think that so they expanded what I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6985">TS</a>]

01:56:32   cloud drive storage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6992">TS</a>]

01:56:34   yes there's no way they did that without considering profit/loss no way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6994">TS</a>]

01:56:37   well of course not because they charge for that right you know is that clearly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/6997">TS</a>]

01:56:42   they've got some numbers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7002">TS</a>]

01:56:44   yeah and in fact I'm telling the more talk about it the more I it's a great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7004">TS</a>]

01:56:48   piece but I still it the more i talk about it the more I think I disagree [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7008">TS</a>]

01:56:52   that that's a guide totally agree that he has he's identified a problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7012">TS</a>]

01:56:57   I don't think though we as proposed solution is right because to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7017">TS</a>]

01:57:01   iCloud Drive another example where it they don't do profit and loss across you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7021">TS</a>]

01:57:06   know the way other companies do but you would never guess that by the way they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7026">TS</a>]

01:57:10   charge for iCloud storage right for based on the way that that they charge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7030">TS</a>]

01:57:15   for iCloud storage you would think the opposite you would think this is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7035">TS</a>]

01:57:18   company where somebody in the iCloud division has a gun to their head that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7038">TS</a>]

01:57:22   they're supposed to make a lot of money on this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7042">TS</a>]

01:57:24   yeah because they charge more than anybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7044">TS</a>]

01:57:28   yeah boy for why penny and there's another one to iCloud drive to me works [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7048">TS</a>]

01:57:35   amazingly well I honestly in my experience and I know somebody out there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7055">TS</a>]

01:57:40   is going to disagree and think that i'm smoking Apple dope or something but I i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7060">TS</a>]

01:57:45   find that it is up to dropbox quality which is invisible that I never if i'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7065">TS</a>]

01:57:52   editing you know apps that I know use that use iCloud Drive like you have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7072">TS</a>]

01:57:57   couple of important number spreadsheet at this point when I save stuff in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7077">TS</a>]

01:58:03   numbers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7083">TS</a>]

01:58:03   I know that it's there and I can go to a different mac or a different device and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7083">TS</a>]

01:58:07   it's going to be there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7087">TS</a>]

01:58:08   it's just there that's not it i still use dropbox because i use it in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7088">TS</a>]

01:58:12   different ways and drop boxes more is a lot easier to use as a sort of junk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7092">TS</a>]

01:58:16   drawer where you just put anything and everything and have it go everywhere and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7096">TS</a>]

01:58:20   iCloud drive to me still works best in the mindset of hey the documents for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7100">TS</a>]

01:58:27   numbers you go two numbers you know it's not really i don't really even though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7107">TS</a>]

01:58:30   you can put arbitrary files in there your iCloud Drive now i still use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7110">TS</a>]

01:58:34   dropbox for that but just in terms of having the sink work just invisibly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7114">TS</a>]

01:58:38   instant nearly instantaneously it's up there i think they get a bad rap for for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7118">TS</a>]

01:58:44   problems that they had in the past and people either every aren't giving it a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7124">TS</a>]

01:58:48   fair look in with open eyes now or it there just to set your mindset that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7128">TS</a>]

01:58:54   Apple's you know that anything related iCloud sucks but what they charge for it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7134">TS</a>]

01:58:59   i think is creates almost crazy compared to what other people charged for storage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7139">TS</a>]

01:59:03   I think the story later XO opened at the functionality seems to be really pretty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7143">TS</a>]

01:59:09   solid at this point I just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7149">TS</a>]

01:59:16   believe that they could charge a lot less than they should and if anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7156">TS</a>]

01:59:20   they should be because you know it's really only meant to be used on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7160">TS</a>]

01:59:23   expensive Apple devices that have high profit margins it seems to me like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7163">TS</a>]

01:59:27   iCloud Drive storage per gigabyte ought to be less than the competition not more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7167">TS</a>]

01:59:32   than the competition because like Dropbox just to name one example all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7172">TS</a>]

01:59:36   money they're making is for people paying for dropbox storage they don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7176">TS</a>]

01:59:39   sell eight-hundred-dollar cell phones that with forty percent profit margins [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7179">TS</a>]

01:59:43   that they can get other revenue from all they have is the storage where is this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7183">TS</a>]

01:59:47   is just one little thing so there's an example where I don't know I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7187">TS</a>]

01:59:51   how do anything they can make money [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7191">TS</a>]

01:59:55   hi guys i don't disagree with you but I mean you know they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7195">TS</a>]

01:59:55   hi guys i don't disagree with you but I mean you know they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7195">TS</a>]

02:00:00   run the scenarios and they make I'm writing you say yeah and that example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7200">TS</a>]

02:00:06   can make money and they've landed i projected scenarios and right and most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7206">TS</a>]

02:00:10   and i often run it you know for some reason multan particular and I when he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7210">TS</a>]

02:00:13   on the show always run into this where we end up talking ourselves into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7213">TS</a>]

02:00:16   spending Tim Cook's money you know when I route totally realize how she's in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7216">TS</a>]

02:00:20   easy and awesome thing to do because it's fun right but i totally realized [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7220">TS</a>]

02:00:24   that the way you become the world's most profitable company is that you you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7224">TS</a>]

02:00:30   cut your losses and you know you sweat the details make money you don't need [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7230">TS</a>]

02:00:35   this money away here in there and that all sorts of ideas that we have involve [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7235">TS</a>]

02:00:39   Apple missing a little extra money away here and there and then you know it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7239">TS</a>]

02:00:43   little way here in there and then all of a sudden you not the world's most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7243">TS</a>]

02:00:45   profitable company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7245">TS</a>]

02:00:46   well because ultimately so the argument is that they should make iCloud storage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7246">TS</a>]

02:00:52   cheaper despite the fact that we don't know how many like what the percentages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7252">TS</a>]

02:01:00   of iOS device owners or Apple device honors heard that subscribe to it they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7260">TS</a>]

02:01:07   should make it cheaper in order to make them happier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7267">TS</a>]

02:01:10   yeah well but but we've already got a cust sat number of like 98 right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7270">TS</a>]

02:01:18   like maybe when that drops to like 89 maybe that's when you like i'm good i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7278">TS</a>]

02:01:23   iose stuff and I almost think that Apple should know better than to trust the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7283">TS</a>]

02:01:27   customer set because people might do to and nada actually think they do people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7287">TS</a>]

02:01:32   maybe don't have high enough expectations yet they don't expect to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7292">TS</a>]

02:01:35   have infinite storage online and so therefore they don't judge apple by that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7295">TS</a>]

02:01:39   and therefore the USA I'm completely satisfied with my iphone even though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7299">TS</a>]

02:01:43   they only have five gigabytes of storage in their iCloud account [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7303">TS</a>]

02:01:46   whereas I think Apple knows better than that and it even cut it is considered by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7306">TS</a>]

02:01:49   hour ago story about being appalled when the guys just threw a handful of card [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7309">TS</a>]

02:01:54   catalogs some paneer like data lost a loss I I just breaks my heart knowing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7314">TS</a>]

02:01:58   that there are people who don't can't put their entire photo library in their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7318">TS</a>]

02:02:02   iCloud account because there are they only take the free iCloud storage like I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7322">TS</a>]

02:02:07   really think that it i don't want to quite say there's a moral obligation but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7327">TS</a>]

02:02:12   I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7332">TS</a>]

02:02:13   I'm spectrum it is on some spectrum being in favor of avoiding data loss at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7333">TS</a>]

02:02:17   all costs is a moral issue and and I really wish that more and more people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7337">TS</a>]

02:02:21   would be able to see you know reasonably serve there and save their entire photo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7341">TS</a>]

02:02:26   and video library to their iCloud account because otherwise if they lose [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7346">TS</a>]

02:02:30   or break their phone they might lose lose photos and videos perfectly i don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7350">TS</a>]

02:02:36   disagree with you about that I don't know what that costs I don't know but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7356">TS</a>]

02:02:46   mean it that there's always local backup so you know everyone you can I know I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7366">TS</a>]

02:02:52   know but not not to get all capitalist on it because i'm canadian so we should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7372">TS</a>]

02:03:02   probably just nationalize every company and but but there doesn't the fact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7382">TS</a>]

02:03:14   they can make money on it and you know like if people need this kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7394">TS</a>]

02:03:21   protection [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7401">TS</a>]

02:03:22   it's effectively insurance right yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7402">TS</a>]

02:03:25   can a floppy any in the insurance via my business I i think the best thing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7405">TS</a>]

02:03:31   Ben wrote in that piece was that the draper quote was named Draper or my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7411">TS</a>]

02:03:37   thing a man the guy that the management guy you said you you what what you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7417">TS</a>]

02:03:41   measure it is what get ya may that's the key and on-air and you might as well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7421">TS</a>]

02:03:49   have said ahhh that's the one jeff would never say that he was hit the exact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7429">TS</a>]

02:03:55   opposite sides but I'd I think that they would but Apple needs is better and more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7435">TS</a>]

02:04:04   rigid measurements of their services they should and higher standards [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7444">TS</a>]

02:04:09   standards for them i see fewer and fewer times that I see any kind of out-of-sync [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7449">TS</a>]

02:04:14   I messages i use iMessage all the time i use it across a bunch of devices and in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7454">TS</a>]

02:04:20   my use it is excellent and then getting better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7460">TS</a>]

02:04:23   there's another one of those things where I just feel like don't judge it by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7463">TS</a>]

02:04:26   how it used to be but it's it's really gotten good at one of my mac the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7466">TS</a>]

02:04:31   iMessage our eyes aren't going off on my other devices because it sees that I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7471">TS</a>]

02:04:35   active on my mac and text that I've sent from my phone all day if there are one I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7475">TS</a>]

02:04:40   message when i get to my mac there there waiting for me if I want to get back to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7480">TS</a>]

02:04:43   it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7483">TS</a>]

02:04:44   um but it's still not perfect i just had an interaction with someone the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7484">TS</a>]

02:04:48   day and I i don't know why but all my texts to this guy only go to my phone or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7488">TS</a>]

02:04:56   from him they only go to my phone at least and they don't go to my my mac and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7496">TS</a>]

02:05:00   i don't know why they're blue and it seems like both devices are set up with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7500">TS</a>]

02:05:06   the same phone number in the same Apple ID and whether he's sending it to my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7506">TS</a>]

02:05:10   phone number or my apple ID email address i don't know but everybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7510">TS</a>]

02:05:15   else's rsync between so just you know it 99 instead of 99.9 percent of messages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7515">TS</a>]

02:05:22   sinking properly between devices you know maybe making 99.99 you know but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7522">TS</a>]

02:05:27   measure it in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7527">TS</a>]

02:05:28   there's there ought to be a good eye and I do always opt into the send Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7528">TS</a>]

02:05:33   diagnostic stuff so they there hopefully they're measuring and they can they see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7533">TS</a>]

02:05:38   that there's a glitch you know but I that to me is the bottom line not that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7538">TS</a>]

02:05:43   it should be about dollars and cents and profit and loss but that they should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7543">TS</a>]

02:05:46   pick better metrics and improve these services to those levels [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7546">TS</a>]

02:05:51   what do you perceive as the services that Apple has that that that need the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7551">TS</a>]

02:05:56   most work here and icloud think it's actually got better do you think it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7556">TS</a>]

02:06:07   good enough as somebody who ships mac software did did you know safe to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7567">TS</a>]

02:06:12   cloud and this is your appt napkin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7572">TS</a>]

02:06:14   yes napkin and we had some early reports where they were like the files would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7574">TS</a>]

02:06:21   clobber themselves when they were synced with it that was bad but things have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7581">TS</a>]

02:06:26   worked out better and notes is actually really great app and i'm already say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7586">TS</a>]

02:06:36   that because i know you know i don't disagree at all I mean is you know well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7596">TS</a>]

02:06:42   you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7602">TS</a>]

02:06:42   and while the new version your show that yeah I didn't new version of the notes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7602">TS</a>]

02:06:46   version of notes that is that debuted last fall with iOS 9 and and the new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7606">TS</a>]

02:06:52   version of macro elcapitan because it the the old version and notes only sink [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7612">TS</a>]

02:06:58   through I map and it was a terrible hack and acted like a terrible hack and was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7618">TS</a>]

02:07:02   unreliable and the new one uses cloudkit I think right and yea 99% sure that it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7622">TS</a>]

02:07:08   yet offering cloudkit which is not files in the file system like iCloud Drive it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7628">TS</a>]

02:07:15   is my culture with the word is but a synchronous abstracted object permanence [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7635">TS</a>]

02:07:23   I guess [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7643">TS</a>]

02:07:24   yes that's a good to sit well the bunch of words is gobbledygook really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7644">TS</a>]

02:07:29   motivated but it's an API that developers seem to like and it seems to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7649">TS</a>]

02:07:35   work the way it's supposed to which is you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7655">TS</a>]

02:07:38   exactly what a service should be a nice change of pace right yeah that it's you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7658">TS</a>]

02:07:42   know it is it's a good API or good enough API and it's reliable so and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7662">TS</a>]

02:07:48   works at it in that within the timeframe that you would hope that it would work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7668">TS</a>]

02:07:52   where the note that you just checked out and paste it on your Mac you pick up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7672">TS</a>]

02:07:57   your phone and go and it's it's there on your phone so it's gonna it's a good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7677">TS</a>]

02:08:01   example itunes an apple music are there a mess like I mean I don't even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7681">TS</a>]

02:08:14   understand anymore but you had already on the show recently and he was like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7694">TS</a>]

02:08:20   well when you go to music have all you same music and it's like that's not the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7700">TS</a>]

02:08:25   problem right and if i play an album that I own to Apple music i can click on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7705">TS</a>]

02:08:32   the album art and click on a song on it and it'll start playing and then if i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7712">TS</a>]

02:08:37   try to navigate to find like to play what's next and i click on an album that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7717">TS</a>]

02:08:41   happens to being included through my Apple music subscription the song . [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7721">TS</a>]

02:08:47   that's why can't I can't go and add it to up next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7727">TS</a>]

02:08:56   I don't whatever reason i don't know how many accounts i agree that there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7736">TS</a>]

02:09:00   problems there and i still i find Apple music to be confusing Apple music I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7740">TS</a>]

02:09:03   don't understand i'm a very technical person it it triggers the that maybe I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7743">TS</a>]

02:09:08   a dummy thing that I think makes me a good designer and a good critic of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7748">TS</a>]

02:09:13   design because i have no I don't want me dummy right but I'm other people so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7753">TS</a>]

02:09:17   technical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7757">TS</a>]

02:09:18   I'm unable to understand complex overly complex interfaces and that therefore [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7758">TS</a>]

02:09:22   act right i think it makes me and I think i'm good at explaining why you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7762">TS</a>]

02:09:26   know and it's it just is over the over the line of I just just did this doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7766">TS</a>]

02:09:31   seem to explain itself i can i can start to understand the rules but there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7771">TS</a>]

02:09:37   betray and based on technical limitations you know that then like I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7777">TS</a>]

02:09:41   don't know that counsel to do that and services though I feel that it's more of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7781">TS</a>]

02:09:44   a sign of being tolerant of insufficient user enter user interfaces okay well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7784">TS</a>]

02:09:51   decline expression of that service is a suboptimal by and large i'm actually not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7791">TS</a>]

02:10:04   that down on Apple services per se but i also don't think I rely on them as much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7804">TS</a>]

02:10:16   as many other people do like a lot of people do collaborative document sharing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7816">TS</a>]

02:10:22   / google or calendar sharing and I don't have to do that room I don't know if I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7822">TS</a>]

02:10:31   exposed so much to the the negative sighs it maybe where Apple is not quite [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7831">TS</a>]

02:10:40   as at the forefront [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7840">TS</a>]

02:10:43   well and the other thing too that plays into this and i often think about and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7843">TS</a>]

02:10:47   don't know how much of it is a problem or not is that Apple is in a position [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7847">TS</a>]

02:10:50   where they benefit from the services of others you know so if there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7850">TS</a>]

02:10:56   collaborative aspects to google docs that you know apples pages or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7856">TS</a>]

02:11:04   else can provide the fact is that you can get the full benefit of that while [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7864">TS</a>]

02:11:09   using an Apple product because google docs as you know iOS apps and and web [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7869">TS</a>]

02:11:16   web version that runs and you know anywhere and i think that's true for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7876">TS</a>]

02:11:20   lot of services you know it's it you know that they've got the problem for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7880">TS</a>]

02:11:27   Apple was back in the early to cycle back to two hours going to show the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7887">TS</a>]

02:11:30   problem was back in the old days when Apple was so much smaller that this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7890">TS</a>]

02:11:34   stuff all the stuff didn't work on apple stuff i mean most famously that family [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7894">TS</a>]

02:11:39   best example I can think of was that at first Napster was a windows only thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7899">TS</a>]

02:11:43   right and there's this amazing thing that was a sensation that let the entire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7903">TS</a>]

02:11:48   world on fire and mac users were left out at first and then it was like we had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7908">TS</a>]

02:11:54   that third-party clients that just use the napster API [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7914">TS</a>]

02:11:57   which I were actually in some ways better because they were designed by Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7917">TS</a>]

02:12:02   developers and had better interface but then as napster itself the first class [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7922">TS</a>]

02:12:07   that you know the first party napster would change things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7927">TS</a>]

02:12:09   the mac changes it you had to wait for the third party developers making these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7929">TS</a>]

02:12:13   sort of yeah I story of the mac in the nice right and we don't apple doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7933">TS</a>]

02:12:17   have that problem anymore nobody nobody does matter or down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7937">TS</a>]

02:12:20   no or iOS seconds maybe max second but not OS so I think it's a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7940">TS</a>]

02:12:24   different you know and I don't think that they have to do all the services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7944">TS</a>]

02:12:28   themselves and in fact i think that that kind of thinking it it sort of is what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7948">TS</a>]

02:12:32   led to Microsoft's downfall where to me where Microsoft really fell off as the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7952">TS</a>]

02:12:37   dominant the company that really drove the industry and every every important [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7957">TS</a>]

02:12:41   sense was that the institutionally they wanted to do everything and anybody who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7961">TS</a>]

02:12:46   had any kind of success [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7966">TS</a>]

02:12:48   microsoft would say well they're making money on that let's go do something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7968">TS</a>]

02:12:51   right beats them right so you know they they competed with oracle they competed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7971">TS</a>]

02:12:56   with Sun they compete I mean you name it they competed with them and they even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7976">TS</a>]

02:13:00   you know they want a lot of those fights right they did but it sometimes dirty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7980">TS</a>]

02:13:05   sometimes parents but i think it may I think it let them take the eye off their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7985">TS</a>]

02:13:09   eye off the ball that they didn't have any you know I think trying to do it all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7989">TS</a>]

02:13:12   is is inevitably going to lead to failure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7992">TS</a>]

02:13:15   so do you think that's where Apple's come on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/7995">TS</a>]

02:13:20   no I don't think so but i think though that the mindset that they have to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8000">TS</a>]

02:13:25   good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8005">TS</a>]

02:13:25   they have to be as good as Google at all services is maybe the wrong way to look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8005">TS</a>]

02:13:29   at it because maybe they don't they just have to remain a appealing platform for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8009">TS</a>]

02:13:34   Google to make sure it remains a first class citizen and I don't see any signs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8014">TS</a>]

02:13:39   that that's changed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8019">TS</a>]

02:13:40   so what do you think about this Intel playoff kind of thing which seems like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8020">TS</a>]

02:13:49   word segue well let it remain this the company did let me take a break before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8029">TS</a>]

02:13:54   we talk that's a great way a great final topic let me take a third third brake [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8034">TS</a>]

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02:14:14   it doesn't look like it's not like getting a printed photo on paper that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8054">TS</a>]

02:14:18   perfectly mounted under glass [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8058">TS</a>]

02:14:19   it looks different and it in a way that is better it looks it it's just uncanny [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8059">TS</a>]

02:14:26   what it looks like it is super super nice you get a piece of glass your photo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8066">TS</a>]

02:14:31   is printed directly on it they have all the sizes you could possibly imagine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8071">TS</a>]

02:14:34   little like three by three square ones four-by-four forget what the sizes but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8074">TS</a>]

02:14:38   the little little tiny desk top 12 really really big ones that you would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8078">TS</a>]

02:14:41   mount on the wall it's really kind of amazing i know Mexican megapixels are so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8081">TS</a>]

02:14:46   overrated as a camera thing a way to rank camera quality but the fact is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8086">TS</a>]

02:14:52   it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8092">TS</a>]

02:14:53   there's a certain threshold for printing things big and you need enough [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8093">TS</a>]

02:14:56   megapixels and it's amazing to me that the iphone is well past you could take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8096">TS</a>]

02:15:00   an iphone picture and if it's in focus and sharp you can print it up to really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8100">TS</a>]

02:15:05   big size and get really really amazing out output out of that and I say that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8105">TS</a>]

02:15:09   knowing that for anybody's listening me most of your photos are probably taken [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8109">TS</a>]

02:15:12   with your iphone there's very few people who take a majority there are photos on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8112">TS</a>]

02:15:16   standalone cameras and even people who use dental and cameras probably don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8116">TS</a>]

02:15:20   take a majority of them on anything other than phone you can go really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8120">TS</a>]

02:15:23   really big and tractors prices are really affordable to it starts at just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8123">TS</a>]

02:15:29   15 bucks for the small square size and it goes up from there they make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8129">TS</a>]

02:15:33   fantastic gifts for family friends and loved ones I know mother's day is coming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8133">TS</a>]

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02:15:37   it is a fantastic hurry up get your order in for Mother's Day because they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8137">TS</a>]

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02:15:46   up but if you listen in to this in the you know at the end of april hurry up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8146">TS</a>]

02:15:50   and get it in its a great gift and I just can't say how happy I am with him I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8150">TS</a>]

02:15:55   wouldn't get my photos printed to mount or to put on a desk any other way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8155">TS</a>]

02:15:59   because it's so much it's both more convenient and higher quality and i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8159">TS</a>]

02:16:04   don't i don't know how you can beat that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8164">TS</a>]

02:16:06   so if you need any more reason to go ahead and use fracture give me a shot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8166">TS</a>]

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02:16:28   me.com my thanks to them so intel intel announced that where they went off like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8188">TS</a>]

02:16:32   ten percent of the workforce 12 12,000 people 12,000 and um I think it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8192">TS</a>]

02:16:40   unsurprising I think you know and it's always funny i add the number surprises [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8200">TS</a>]

02:16:45   me i had to the lair [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8205">TS</a>]

02:16:49   I mean so you would probably have to the TV show you hip to the the industry back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8209">TS</a>]

02:16:57   when IBM had its first layoffs late nineties em at what you know why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8217">TS</a>]

02:17:04   actually is before that think before Apple got involved with them but Abby it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8224">TS</a>]

02:17:10   was a powerhouse and they they will look at all school company like we don't do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8230">TS</a>]

02:17:14   layoffs right you work at IBM and you retire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8234">TS</a>]

02:17:18   it's a point of pride look your company man you want to watch you would like we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8238">TS</a>]

02:17:23   we set you up and then they they had sometimes and they they did some laughed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8243">TS</a>]

02:17:28   and this Intel thing kinda reminds me that a little bit yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8248">TS</a>]

02:17:36   and especially because they were especially going back to the nineties [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8256">TS</a>]

02:17:41   you just cannot emphasize how you know I know that use the term wintel but that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8261">TS</a>]

02:17:47   was wintel was the windows as the software and Intel is the cpu the wind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8267">TS</a>]

02:17:52   tell duopoly was just so dominant in the industry in terms of both what actual [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8272">TS</a>]

02:17:59   people were actually using which was intel-based computers with microsoft [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8279">TS</a>]

02:18:04   software running it and and the where the money was going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8284">TS</a>]

02:18:07   it was going to Microsoft was going to intel i mean you could have reaped all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8287">TS</a>]

02:18:12   of the rewards of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8292">TS</a>]

02:18:15   the nineties stock market just by putting money into Intel and Microsoft [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8295">TS</a>]

02:18:19   oh yeah and it just seemed that sort of success over you know a decade it after [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8299">TS</a>]

02:18:27   a while it's human nature to just see it as inevitable you know that it's that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8307">TS</a>]

02:18:31   they're always going to Intel is always going to be Intel and it just it you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8311">TS</a>]

02:18:37   know i don't know going back in time and telling somebody in 1997 that Intel's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8317">TS</a>]

02:18:41   going to have massive layoffs and $MONTH 2016 10 2016 would sound like a long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8321">TS</a>]

02:18:45   time off but you would think wow some something weird happened in between now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8325">TS</a>]

02:18:49   and then because that doesn't seem possible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8329">TS</a>]

02:18:51   well I'm something where didn't happen i think a couple of things did I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8331">TS</a>]

02:18:55   that there's I think again multi variable and that all of the variables [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8335">TS</a>]

02:19:01   all of them worked against Intel it's like it's like a perfect yeah I can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8341">TS</a>]

02:19:06   think of really want just yeah he never liked all the ways that the industry has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8346">TS</a>]

02:19:10   changed since since their heyday have all been against their their favor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8350">TS</a>]

02:19:17   I mean let's just recount them i mean obviously one of them is the shift to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8357">TS</a>]

02:19:23   the fact that pc sales have plateaued and and Irina decline because people are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8363">TS</a>]

02:19:30   either using your old pc longer and it the end they're older pc is good enough [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8370">TS</a>]

02:19:36   performance-wise that that we've reached the United maybe that's even a separate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8376">TS</a>]

02:19:40   separate factor in that is saturation point is right that that that we've read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8380">TS</a>]

02:19:44   rich reached a point where client-side computing is fast enough for most people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8384">TS</a>]

02:19:49   most of the time so the old there's no need to replace your older pc if it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8389">TS</a>]

02:19:53   still running based on performance reasons obviously and famously people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8393">TS</a>]

02:19:57   are doing a lot more their personal computing on quote unquote mobile [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8397">TS</a>]

02:20:01   devices which roughly defined means phones and tablets and phones and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8401">TS</a>]

02:20:05   tablets most of them overwhelming majority of them are using arm-based [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8405">TS</a>]

02:20:09   chips which Intel doesn't make an which funny enough faced this soul they had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8409">TS</a>]

02:20:15   like an army had that x.x kayla was right and that they're sold just before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8415">TS</a>]

02:20:20   the cell phone and now here's the thing that I wonder though even keeping that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8420">TS</a>]

02:20:24   don't know that that would have saved them because one of the other factors is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8424">TS</a>]

02:20:26   that arms [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8426">TS</a>]

02:20:27   are our Intel's business is based on the fact on the the the idea that a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8427">TS</a>]

02:20:33   significant portion of the cost of a pc is the cpu that that's you know whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8433">TS</a>]

02:20:39   however much the pc cause a big chunk of it is a the the cpu and microsoft [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8439">TS</a>]

02:20:46   business used to be based on and to some degree still is but they've successfully [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8446">TS</a>]

02:20:49   moved away from you know moved away from this in a way that I don't think intel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8449">TS</a>]

02:20:54   has that that in the old days a pretty much the entire cost of the pc was an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8454">TS</a>]

02:20:59   intel chip a license for windows and then a whole bunch of cheap components [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8459">TS</a>]

02:21:04   like hard drives and ram and stuff like that that was all commodity-based but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8464">TS</a>]

02:21:09   don't think that's everything else was a top software is software they can pivot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8469">TS</a>]

02:21:13   better than it until can being hardware and I don't like like I think that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8473">TS</a>]

02:21:22   can move on with being the OS provider and onto something else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8482">TS</a>]

02:21:26   faster than intel can move often being the chief advisor right wanted something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8486">TS</a>]

02:21:30   else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8490">TS</a>]

02:21:30   well and being a cheap provider where the cpu is not a mere commodity is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8490">TS</a>]

02:21:35   premier component I mean and just look at most so the legs cut out they invent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8495">TS</a>]

02:21:40   them and now what we mac users are always saying I always at least I always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8500">TS</a>]

02:21:45   think of Intel stickers the Intel Inside stickers in the context of that poor sap [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8505">TS</a>]

02:21:49   at the apple press conference who asked Steve Jobs wide man yeah why them the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8509">TS</a>]

02:21:55   first you know it will after having six kind of in 2006-2007 mower I had to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8515">TS</a>]

02:22:01   2070 because they had to be after the ones came out 2006 was the year that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8521">TS</a>]

02:22:05   switch was announced right and then 2007 would be when it came out so that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8525">TS</a>]

02:22:11   poor guide that press conference in $MONTH 2007 who asked why apple's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8531">TS</a>]

02:22:14   intel-based mac books don't have an intelligent the same as the iPhone yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8534">TS</a>]

02:22:20   that's embarrassing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8540">TS</a>]

02:22:22   yeah it'sit's your you're worried about the wrong thing did but just think about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8542">TS</a>]

02:22:29   just think about the fact that it's the idea that the intel chip is so important [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8549">TS</a>]

02:22:33   to the pc whether it's from HP or dell or compact back in the day or name that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8553">TS</a>]

02:22:41   you tape sony you know that they all put any a visible intel inside sticker on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8561">TS</a>]

02:22:47   the outside of the pc or the laptop and I know that they were marketing you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8567">TS</a>]

02:22:52   deals and everybody took in there was money that it was involved but the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8572">TS</a>]

02:22:55   notion of putting a cpu maker sticker mac users laughs example just wouldn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8575">TS</a>]

02:23:01   do it but no phone as a Qualcomm inside sticker on it it's just the cpu is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8581">TS</a>]

02:23:07   reduced important it's just another one of the components now it's obviously an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8587">TS</a>]

02:23:11   important component and you can obviously spend you know higher end [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8591">TS</a>]

02:23:15   phones have more cutting-edge cpus but it's just a different world the idea of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8595">TS</a>]

02:23:20   the cpu being so supremely course so extremely Supreme to the what's in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8600">TS</a>]

02:23:28   device it is no longer the case you know and I they you know they can't expect to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8608">TS</a>]

02:23:33   make hundreds of dollars from cpu and a phone right yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8613">TS</a>]

02:23:38   well no I don't the intelligent honest you don't have they can expect me I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8618">TS</a>]

02:23:43   talking about my here and somebody will have an idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8623">TS</a>]

02:23:46   first I'm talking out of my ass but I i would guess that Intel makes more money [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8626">TS</a>]

02:23:50   from a three-hundred-dollar pc that gets old today with an intel cpu then then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8630">TS</a>]

02:24:00   they would make from Sen arm CPU in an eight-hundred-dollar iphone if they were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8640">TS</a>]

02:24:06   to make the cpu for the iphone i don't think when RCP if you sure because they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8646">TS</a>]

02:24:12   be licensing the arm IP right and part of its really used to perfectly on but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8652">TS</a>]

02:24:20   they sold it and helps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8660">TS</a>]

02:24:24   I don't know what girlfriend shall I don't and they seem like they should go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8664">TS</a>]

02:24:36   onto the server side and I don't know enough about how those architectures [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8676">TS</a>]

02:24:42   work these days but it seems to me that eventually a bunch of like really low [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8682">TS</a>]

02:24:47   powered arm chips with ssds attached could perform a lot of the web traffic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8687">TS</a>]

02:24:55   that it is you know mostly what needs to be served up today [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8695">TS</a>]

02:25:05   yeah I don't know what the way I don't know what the way forward for them as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8705">TS</a>]

02:25:08   either but I did get enough you need a super powerful CPU and the backend [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8708">TS</a>]

02:25:13   anymore [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8713">TS</a>]

02:25:14   like maybe we've tapped out and in terms of what a single cpu needs to do and now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8714">TS</a>]

02:25:19   we're looking at like a hive mind of CBS i just see that I think that the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8719">TS</a>]

02:25:27   forward for them is probably not in making things for consumers you know and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8727">TS</a>]

02:25:32   whether server or the whatever other professional market but that's the only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8732">TS</a>]

02:25:35   way for a company like Intel to make high-priced components i think at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8735">TS</a>]

02:25:40   consumer level prevented an era where you know those chips are all they're all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8740">TS</a>]

02:25:46   commodities now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8746">TS</a>]

02:25:47   yeah you know what I i I've been longtime fan of IBM and they got out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8747">TS</a>]

02:25:59   when the gettin was good they sold up that pc industry to lenovo they gave up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8759">TS</a>]

02:26:06   os/2 probably 10 years too late but the right p.m. so they were supporting their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8766">TS</a>]

02:26:13   customers a long time I I'm gonna I'm gonna cut you off before you circling in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8773">TS</a>]

02:26:16   those two I don't want to talk about os/2 I'm just saying it as a company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8776">TS</a>]

02:26:21   they manage their business for like a hundred and something here that and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8781">TS</a>]

02:26:26   there's no one is good to let go and have their big to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8786">TS</a>]

02:26:34   my promises I think that them them selling the thinkpad business when they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8794">TS</a>]

02:26:39   did was is it in hindsight a great example of skating to where the puck is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8799">TS</a>]

02:26:44   going anywhere exactly right they sold it not not before it was too late they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8804">TS</a>]

02:26:49   sold it while it could still command a premium price [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8809">TS</a>]

02:26:51   yeah but they totally saw that was going away that they went to his services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8811">TS</a>]

02:26:55   business [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8815">TS</a>]

02:26:56   yeah and i had to cut a bunch of jobs which is unfortunate but I mean am I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8816">TS</a>]

02:27:02   mean David kicking it for like a hundred and some-odd years now so come here and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8822">TS</a>]

02:27:08   look how do you argue with that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8828">TS</a>]

02:27:11   yeah well it's it's about it from my list of topics anything else you want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8831">TS</a>]

02:27:16   talk about me we're going on for a while and had definitely WTH really couldn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8836">TS</a>]

02:27:20   really see is very expensive that that is that's the last thing I wanted to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8840">TS</a>]

02:27:23   talk about so Apple finally and and i mean a non sarcastic i really do think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8843">TS</a>]

02:27:29   that they should be embarrassed that they announced WTC dates only eight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8849">TS</a>]

02:27:33   weeks before it actually happens i think it's i think apples gotta put on your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8853">TS</a>]

02:27:38   big boy pants and and commit to it at least i would say four months in advance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8858">TS</a>]

02:27:44   but at least 12 i think at least 12 but anyway they at least have like a year in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8864">TS</a>]

02:27:50   advance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8870">TS</a>]

02:27:50   no 12 weeks i don't know probably 12 weeks but you know I for I'd skip [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8870">TS</a>]

02:27:56   between months and weeks there so I'm so they announced WWDC dates it's exactly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8876">TS</a>]

02:28:03   when everybody thought it was better to 13 to 17 but a lot of people have noted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8883">TS</a>]

02:28:10   that the including me because I'm not buying it i didn't enter the lottery i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8890">TS</a>]

02:28:15   get meaning and it's always easy for me to say because every year for just at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8895">TS</a>]

02:28:19   least since 2007 I've got a press pass for the keynotes and in recent years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8899">TS</a>]

02:28:23   they've let the some of the people with press passes go to conference sessions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8903">TS</a>]

02:28:28   and stuff like that but so I didn't even enter the lottery because i don't want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8908">TS</a>]

02:28:32   to take the lottery spot from somebody who really really wants to go and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8912">TS</a>]

02:28:35   doesn't have the privilege i do of getting a press pass [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8915">TS</a>]

02:28:38   yeah it's the same with me i don't know not that they know I could guarantee [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8918">TS</a>]

02:28:43   pass beg to now i will be then I can talk to a lot of these people it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8923">TS</a>]

02:28:48   fine like i don't need a pass at love to be there but man types eaten [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8928">TS</a>]

02:28:56   yeah it is it and and it's funny I knew that the prices for hotels in downtown [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8936">TS</a>]

02:29:01   San Francisco I've gotten more expensive and my thought was is because someone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8941">TS</a>]

02:29:05   who goes to New York couple times a year i know that Manhattan famously and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8945">TS</a>]

02:29:09   to me rightfully so is you know that the greatest city in the world says in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8949">TS</a>]

02:29:16   America [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8956">TS</a>]

02:29:17   yeah but arguably the greatest city in the world you know it makes total sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8957">TS</a>]

02:29:20   to me that Manhattan is the most expensive hotel city that I am familiar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8960">TS</a>]

02:29:24   with and off the top of my head it seems like not just for WWDC but the last few [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8964">TS</a>]

02:29:29   times I've gone out you know for the last year so every time I go out for an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8969">TS</a>]

02:29:32   apple event stay in san francisco it seems to me that like it's no longer a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8972">TS</a>]

02:29:37   case of bad luck like the one year the ipad event in the fall was coincident [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8977">TS</a>]

02:29:43   with the thing was the e3 gaming conference it was somewhat the big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8983">TS</a>]

02:29:48   gaming conference in san francisco i don't--that's III year what the name of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8988">TS</a>]

02:29:52   GTA GTA the game developers conference gcng is the Association because you just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/8992">TS</a>]

02:30:00   a sensationally I mean just I've tens of thousands of attendees and it was like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9000">TS</a>]

02:30:06   holy cow did XP no note and it was held at moscone so it's all the you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9006">TS</a>]

02:30:10   downtown hotels super sent but it's been a case for the last few years where it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9010">TS</a>]

02:30:15   doesn't matter whether it's june or $MONTH march or September it's expensive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9015">TS</a>]

02:30:20   and then somebody pointed out to me on twitter that its attack Bloomberg [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9020">TS</a>]

02:30:24   actually did a report in San Francisco is now the most expensive hotel city in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9024">TS</a>]

02:30:28   the world and which exactly it's not just me wanting to get it a nice room at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9028">TS</a>]

02:30:35   a cheap rate it's actually like the truth it's more expensive than whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9035">TS</a>]

02:30:39   the city isn't Switzerland more expensive than New York crazy and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9039">TS</a>]

02:30:43   really puts a damper in the ability for us as a community to just say hey even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9043">TS</a>]

02:30:49   if you don't get a conference ticket or even a developer you should come out to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9049">TS</a>]

02:30:52   San Francisco that week anyway because all of us will be there together and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9052">TS</a>]

02:30:55   people can show up you know people get tickets to my live talk show people can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9055">TS</a>]

02:31:01   you know talk in hotel lobbies and you make friends and make contacts and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9061">TS</a>]

02:31:07   schedule all sorts of other events but the the shirt cost of it now is really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9067">TS</a>]

02:31:11   it's it's absolutely locking people out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9071">TS</a>]

02:31:15   I don't know what happened can do about that it's not apples fault it really ya [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9075">TS</a>]

02:31:19   know now it's and there's been some suggestion that they could do it in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9079">TS</a>]

02:31:22   Vegas and I don't think that'll fly it doesn't want and you know me I love [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9082">TS</a>]

02:31:28   Vegas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9088">TS</a>]

02:31:29   yeah and I love Apple ya think I don't think it was work though I know it's in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9089">TS</a>]

02:31:34   and it's as a function of having tons of really high quality hotel rooms at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9094">TS</a>]

02:31:41   reasonable rates Vegas definitely has that I mean you get a for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9101">TS</a>]

02:31:45   four-and-a-half storeroom at vegas almost all the time for under two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9105">TS</a>]

02:31:49   hundred dollars a night in terms of having conference space there's a couple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9109">TS</a>]

02:31:53   of options i think they have I've never WBC is a little different than like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9113">TS</a>]

02:31:58   convention but you know there's a lot of places there and I know that the aria [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9118">TS</a>]

02:32:02   hotel is building a new one but I think it's for other reasons i think it's i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9122">TS</a>]

02:32:06   think it's off brand for apple and I don't think it works for them in terms [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9126">TS</a>]

02:32:10   they have to move a lot of people and honestly love people just come up to it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9130">TS</a>]

02:32:14   a lot Apple people come up because it's there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9134">TS</a>]

02:32:19   yeah it is shuttle a lot of Apple people who are involved at WWDC and some degree [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9139">TS</a>]

02:32:24   or another a jit still are in cupertino during the week either some of the days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9144">TS</a>]

02:32:29   or every day maybe just in the morning and then you know get there one snake [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9149">TS</a>]

02:32:32   yeah yeah okay I'll come in my lap right 13 there's an awful lot of cars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9152">TS</a>]

02:32:37   shuttling forth from the south south of Valley up to San Francisco with apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9157">TS</a>]

02:32:41   employees and back and forth during wwcc whereas if they held it whether it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9161">TS</a>]

02:32:46   Vegas or any other city that required air travel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9166">TS</a>]

02:32:50   it's everybody has to go and everybody has to stay there all week and it a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9170">TS</a>]

02:32:55   different thing it has cost it adds commitment it adds disruption and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9175">TS</a>]

02:33:00   anytime you do air travel like that even if it's not change impacts serendipity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9180">TS</a>]

02:33:04   yeah yeah maybe I'll just gonna show up yeah well and it adds a day before and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9184">TS</a>]

02:33:09   after just not even talking teardown and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9189">TS</a>]

02:33:12   and stuff like that it just means you've got to go the day before and you've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9192">TS</a>]

02:33:16   gotta leave the day after as opposed to if you're just driving an hour down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9196">TS</a>]

02:33:20   there you know it's it's a little different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9200">TS</a>]

02:33:22   yeah it won't leave a yeah I don't get it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9202">TS</a>]

02:33:25   yeah it's like if they could find another option in the valley [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9205">TS</a>]

02:33:28   maybe but you know it's it's like in the old days I never went to one in san jose [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9208">TS</a>]

02:33:33   and I think the first WWDC I i went to it was already in San Francisco at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9213">TS</a>]

02:33:39   Moscone and went to a GC in san jose back in the old days but you and I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9219">TS</a>]

02:33:45   friends [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9225">TS</a>]

02:33:46   good yes you know I Chris you know your partner at with napkin at age 72 still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9226">TS</a>]

02:33:53   who you know I think he was probably adobe back then right yeah appreciate so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9233">TS</a>]

02:33:57   back when he was at Adobe admit that the the san jose you're a WWE sees Brent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9237">TS</a>]

02:34:03   Simmons had been to a san jose or at WTC everybody agrees it in terms of you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9243">TS</a>]

02:34:11   the social aspects of it was terrible because San Jose like the light you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9251">TS</a>]

02:34:15   they turn out the lights at five o'clock in the afternoon [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9255">TS</a>]

02:34:17   yeah and so you just lose all sorts of social serendipity that and I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9257">TS</a>]

02:34:24   think it's big enough anymore i really don't know I know you can do it anywhere [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9264">TS</a>]

02:34:27   but i'll tell you think it might be open the other must grenade portions but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9267">TS</a>]

02:34:32   quite frankly though in the early years of daring fireball in the first at least [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9272">TS</a>]

02:34:37   five years that I went to WWDC I I wouldn't have been able to afford it if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9277">TS</a>]

02:34:41   the hotel's works too expensive that as they are now no now I mean it i find it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9281">TS</a>]

02:34:50   have seen now and it hurts to I i find that air trauma has gotten more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9290">TS</a>]

02:34:54   expensive too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9294">TS</a>]

02:34:55   I don't know what the reason for that is but it may it may be specific to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9295">TS</a>]

02:34:59   philly the SFO route and that the way that the airline options out of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9299">TS</a>]

02:35:04   Philadelphia have changed since then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9304">TS</a>]

02:35:06   maybe but I mean it's becoming like a five grand adventure is to one week [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9306">TS</a>]

02:35:12   costs about five grand gets now at least it's it's it's really it's almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9312">TS</a>]

02:35:18   sickening [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9318">TS</a>]

02:35:19   yeah it's it's not to be growing like right crash about it but I mean that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9319">TS</a>]

02:35:23   serious money and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9323">TS</a>]

02:35:25   for me that's like really like how do you spend that kind of money without [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9325">TS</a>]

02:35:29   really thinking about is this with while to attend he you can go to like a really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9329">TS</a>]

02:35:35   nice a really nice vacation resort somewhere for a lot more money than to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9335">TS</a>]

02:35:39   go there and have you know the some bum urinating on the sidewalk in front of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9339">TS</a>]

02:35:45   you you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9345">TS</a>]

02:35:46   yes I love San Francisco but let's face it it's not not a resort destination it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9346">TS</a>]

02:35:52   really crazy how expensive it is and I don't know what to do i add that Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9352">TS</a>]

02:35:55   actually is a little concerned about that but on the other hand itself you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9355">TS</a>]

02:36:00   know it sells out so fast that they have to have a lottery the last time they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9360">TS</a>]

02:36:03   didn't have a lottery it literally literally sold out in under a minute [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9363">TS</a>]

02:36:07   every single ticket for sale sold out in under a minute [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9367">TS</a>]

02:36:11   I don't the last 1i got to you texted me at like 830 in the morning and I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9371">TS</a>]

02:36:17   like I just pressed okay until I managed to buy it to get that was a couple years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9377">TS</a>]

02:36:23   ago yeah it was three years ago i think i think is dead [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9383">TS</a>]

02:36:27   this might be the second year of a lottery i think but so it's not like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9387">TS</a>]

02:36:32   they're not they're gonna have trouble filling out the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9392">TS</a>]

02:36:35   no no that's consumed and I think for the student scholarships i know that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9395">TS</a>]

02:36:39   they announce this year that they're going to institute they're going to have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9399">TS</a>]

02:36:42   travel plans are they gonna help with travel for some of the student [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9402">TS</a>]

02:36:46   scholarships to which I can also create i can only assume includes hotel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9406">TS</a>]

02:36:50   I mean whether it's free or whether it's just discount or just a relatively [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9410">TS</a>]

02:36:54   little you know for the student disc you know students a relatively low [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9414">TS</a>]

02:36:58   reasonable price that includes the hotel accommodations which is driven they can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9418">TS</a>]

02:37:02   afford even half of what we've been saying yeah what park was like four [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9422">TS</a>]

02:37:10   bucks a night I yet at least [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9430">TS</a>]

02:37:13   yeah but when I looked the other day online the mark 55 which is to me the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9433">TS</a>]

02:37:17   baseline hotel in the neighborhood is 409 dollars a night which isn't it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9437">TS</a>]

02:37:24   just really is very 55 and I don't like those guys I do but I mean committed one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9444">TS</a>]

02:37:33   but tonight it's a fine hotel but it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9453">TS</a>]

02:37:36   is I feel like somebody's getting bribed to have it redone the four-star list [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9456">TS</a>]

02:37:40   instead of three-and-a-half store list right and it's you know it was always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9460">TS</a>]

02:37:45   like well it's not the best but a hundred eighty-nine dollars a night I'd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9465">TS</a>]

02:37:49   rather save I'd rather save the money and I mean and you can get a better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9469">TS</a>]

02:37:52   hotel for 250 dollars a night back then but you think like we'll wait I'm coming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9472">TS</a>]

02:37:57   out for six nights that's 15 and fee it's like almost 400 bucks it's like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9477">TS</a>]

02:38:02   foreigner box I'll state the part 55 and they feel but now that they've got the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9482">TS</a>]

02:38:05   prices over three hundred dollars four hundred dollars it's like you've got to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9485">TS</a>]

02:38:08   be kidding me four hundred dollars a night to stay in this place that looks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9488">TS</a>]

02:38:11   like it came out of that did you remember the Intercontinental just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9491">TS</a>]

02:38:14   opened it was like 10 bucks a night kind of thank the parc 55 reminded but it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9494">TS</a>]

02:38:20   seems to me like it was it's like the nicest hotel in east berlin during the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9500">TS</a>]

02:38:25   Cold War is the and the grotesque caricatures yeah the brutalist [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9505">TS</a>]

02:38:30   architecture and like the way that they think that this is this is what we think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9510">TS</a>]

02:38:34   a nice hotel is like it was just crazy that's absolutely crazy and there's no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9514">TS</a>]

02:38:44   there's no more seats they used to be the other thing too is we've got you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9524">TS</a>]

02:38:47   know amongst our pals in their little clique of friends we have somebody would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9527">TS</a>]

02:38:51   figure out some way every year they they go to somebody would go through hotwire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9531">TS</a>]

02:38:54   or yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9534">TS</a>]

02:38:55   priceline or something like that and now hey if you go through hotwire and search [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9535">TS</a>]

02:38:59   for a hotel within one mile of this location there's there's a four-star [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9539">TS</a>]

02:39:05   option and it's only a hundred and seventy nine dollars a night and I jibe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9545">TS</a>]

02:39:09   booked it and it's you know the such-and-such hotel which is you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9549">TS</a>]

02:39:12   right it's a great hotel and then everybody would quick do it and we get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9552">TS</a>]

02:39:15   it you know everybody feeling there's no more like there's no secret anymore to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9555">TS</a>]

02:39:18   getting a hotel in San Francisco and you know what that never worked for me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9558">TS</a>]

02:39:22   because I'm Canadian and like whatever service they used was probably faucets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9562">TS</a>]

02:39:27   and wear whatever service it was fake yeah us people who me yeah like okay get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9567">TS</a>]

02:39:33   something for practice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9573">TS</a>]

02:39:35   that's crazy i don't know what Apple can do or anybody can do know you can't fix [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9575">TS</a>]

02:39:40   that I can't help but think I i could be wrong I mean everybody you know it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9580">TS</a>]

02:39:45   it's only a bubble of it pops but I can't help but think that some of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9585">TS</a>]

02:39:48   San Francisco go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9588">TS</a>]

02:39:49   economy is a bit of a bubble in that it will come back down to earth because i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9589">TS</a>]

02:39:55   don't think it's the natural state of affairs at San Francisco is it is is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9595">TS</a>]

02:40:01   more desirable than Manhattan you know and I don't like San Francisco lot as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9601">TS</a>]

02:40:07   city but at now I gave you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9607">TS</a>]

02:40:09   I feel like one way that you have to lie to the economy pops and prices go back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9609">TS</a>]

02:40:13   down or they build enough new hotels that that the you know the the supply [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9613">TS</a>]

02:40:19   and demand equation changes but somebody was saying in twitter that they're not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9619">TS</a>]

02:40:22   there aren't really any plans for new hotels that there's a couple but nothing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9622">TS</a>]

02:40:26   no plans for hotels that would be sufficient to really change the overall [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9626">TS</a>]

02:40:29   supply and demand ratio so we're stuck compel who tells him what I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9629">TS</a>]

02:40:37   try living there right now oh don't touch my friends yeah it's great huh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9637">TS</a>]

02:40:40   yeah nobody likes and I some of the suggestions people had on Twitter and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9640">TS</a>]

02:40:45   they're reasonable and it's probably what maybe this is what I would do if I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9645">TS</a>]

02:40:48   were if I you know couldn't afford it now if it was 10 years ago in the early [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9648">TS</a>]

02:40:53   days daring fireball is people are saying you can you could stay out by the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9653">TS</a>]

02:41:01   airport for a lot less and take like an uberx into the city every day and take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9661">TS</a>]

02:41:07   it back at night which sounds crazy because it's the Hooper's from SFO to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9667">TS</a>]

02:41:10   downtown is is it's not cheap but waiting that's about 30 bucks a pop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9670">TS</a>]

02:41:15   right and I'm and my plans to just stay down in pacifica yeah and that would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9675">TS</a>]

02:41:23   about 20 bucks anyway my hand and a lot to explain to my girlfriend and i'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9683">TS</a>]

02:41:29   sorry i'm showing up at five o'clock in the morning right there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9689">TS</a>]

02:41:32   I'm just gonna sleep in the garage Michael is especially just a sickening [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9692">TS</a>]

02:41:37   amount of money on one of the regular hotels i've got one already booked and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9697">TS</a>]

02:41:41   the other thing to the other last thing is that booking in advance was not any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9701">TS</a>]

02:41:45   sort of benefit either because i had a guess as to when the the WTC would be it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9705">TS</a>]

02:41:51   was right and I booked a hotel room months ago I think it was like january a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9711">TS</a>]

02:41:58   terrible rate had absolutely terrible rate but i know i like the hotel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9718">TS</a>]

02:42:03   and I I was worried that if it did it would might get so busy that it would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9723">TS</a>]

02:42:11   hard to get a room at any rate if I waited until after that it was announced [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9731">TS</a>]

02:42:15   and so I booked it not because hey I'm going to lock in a great rate i booked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9735">TS</a>]

02:42:19   it because I thought well atleast is where i know i have a hotel at least a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9739">TS</a>]

02:42:22   reasonable by today's standards San Francisco rate and then but it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9742">TS</a>]

02:42:27   refundable and i'll just keep searching in hoping that maybe in the last week or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9747">TS</a>]

02:42:31   two prices you know there might be some deals i can refine get a refund up until [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9751">TS</a>]

02:42:36   like Friday before WBC starts so when you check-in and they ask any case you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9756">TS</a>]

02:42:42   want you going to say to write i always get to outgas olive School of Fine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9762">TS</a>]

02:42:49   perfect of my friend guy robbing from themselves [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9769">TS</a>]

02:42:54   yes to two queens sequence guy English thank you for doing the show has been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9774">TS</a>]

02:43:06   great talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9786">TS</a>]

02:43:07   John Ellis fine people can get all the guy in less than one on twitter at gte [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9787">TS</a>]

02:43:14   ya jee teen18 see your great app napkin at aged into stone and mac after yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9794">TS</a>]

02:43:27   the mac yeah yeah I get a podcast don't count the e-book that you can check it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9807">TS</a>]

02:43:31   when we interview people about oddly enough at computer history right with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9811">TS</a>]

02:43:36   fellow longtime friend of the talk show Rene Rene Ritchie yeah I guess nice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9816">TS</a>]

02:43:42   dummy also is I don't know how that is the nicest guy noir he's he's yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9822">TS</a>]

02:43:50   to me it didn't talk about all this stuff just turns you cynical it just how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9830">TS</a>]

02:43:55   do you not get cynical and that son-of-a-bitch the grenadines does not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9835">TS</a>]

02:43:58   intersect the Canadians Canadian need is the Chianti and doesn't have a cynical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9838">TS</a>]

02:44:03   boners [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9843">TS</a>]

02:44:04   that's one of the nicest people I've ever met all right thank you guys thank [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9844">TS</a>]

02:44:09   you jack have a good weekend [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9849">TS</a>]

02:44:10   you too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzMz5_U/9850">TS</a>]