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The Talk Show

149: ‘With Apologies to Hamilton’, With Special Guest Glenn Fleishman

 

00:00:00   the dulcet tones of your sweet voice gun i propose a poem by the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/0">TS</a>]

00:00:04   oh well let's hear it trying to guess I'd it's about I was I was moved by the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4">TS</a>]

00:00:10   ending of the Apple filing so and I've been listening to Hamilton we're too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/10">TS</a>]

00:00:13   much are you a fan of hamilton and you've been listening to iive not i am [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/13">TS</a>]

00:00:16   aware that it exists and I'm aware that it a sensation and I agree that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/16">TS</a>]

00:00:21   premise sounds it sounds fascinating but I've actually not like watched or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/21">TS</a>]

00:00:26   listened to any of it yet it's kind of a brain virus like I'd heard about it I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/26">TS</a>]

00:00:30   sort of was like well maybe i'll wait I'll see if somebody don't want to and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/30">TS</a>]

00:00:33   then I was like well listen to a song and then you just spiraled down so this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/33">TS</a>]

00:00:36   is just my poem inspired by the end of the Apple brief with apologies to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/36">TS</a>]

00:00:41   Hamilton Your Honor we must have earned reading Brandeis government seals a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/41">TS</a>]

00:00:45   danger not understanding the scope of their pleading the danger delivery lies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/45">TS</a>]

00:00:50   within mistreating Americans rights we posit they're exceedingly well meeting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/50">TS</a>]

00:00:54   but insidious encroaching demeaning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/54">TS</a>]

00:00:58   there we go very well said nipsey Russell for the ages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/58">TS</a>]

00:01:02   i'm also reading a ehrenberg papers because you know how the government [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/62">TS</a>]

00:01:09   cited as yeah I've been actually going back and reading some of the historical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/69">TS</a>]

00:01:13   documents create some books from the eighteen hundreds in some later books [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/73">TS</a>]

00:01:16   written about it found interesting article from 92 and looking at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/76">TS</a>]

00:01:21   original ciphers that the codes and ciphers they used it's a very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/81">TS</a>]

00:01:24   fascinating thing to see what the state of cryptography was the late seventeen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/84">TS</a>]

00:01:28   hundreds early eighteen-hundreds all comes back to Hamilton it kinda does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/88">TS</a>]

00:01:33   it's really kind of funny who this is a tweet from my past buzzed Anderson last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/93">TS</a>]

00:01:41   night who would have thought Aaron Burr would get so much attention into is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/101">TS</a>]

00:01:48   little weird and then they did Hamilton performance at the White House like not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/108">TS</a>]

00:01:51   long after the FBI was citing the umbrella amber ostensibly want to become [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/111">TS</a>]

00:01:56   the Emperor Mexico need a plan [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/116">TS</a>]

00:01:59   American history is kind of awesome and strangely tell you the Emperor from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/119">TS</a>]

00:02:04   Mexican restaurants ago just going to the mid-mississippi to try to schedule [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/124">TS</a>]

00:02:10   some kind of event in a general who didn't want to get caught [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/130">TS</a>]

00:02:13   up with it had been corresponding with him for years turned over the ciphered [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/133">TS</a>]

00:02:17   letter and there's a trial and he was found innocent of treason because the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/137">TS</a>]

00:02:24   justice in the case of Frankenstein famous just Marshall Marshall thank you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/144">TS</a>]

00:02:28   said that no actual like event had occurred so it wasn't treasonous to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/148">TS</a>]

00:02:33   discuss this even if that's what was discussed so you will have been treason [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/153">TS</a>]

00:02:37   to become the emperor of Mexico since that's not it wasn't trying to become [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/157">TS</a>]

00:02:40   the Emperor united states he was trying to raise our armed forces to fight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/160">TS</a>]

00:02:44   against separate another nation that without the support and authority to of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/164">TS</a>]

00:02:50   america so there was some like I am losing the detail there but it was under [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/170">TS</a>]

00:02:55   it was treason because he was acting against the interest in stated policy of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/175">TS</a>]

00:02:59   america and waging war that was the intent but without actually doing it so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/179">TS</a>]

00:03:03   number one up living for decades after that and never quite got back to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/183">TS</a>]

00:03:08   same position aquatic when he was vice president between the duel and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/188">TS</a>]

00:03:12   treason trial and then just kind of people not really wanted to be what is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/192">TS</a>]

00:03:17   that I went to the story of the tool that's this one of those things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/197">TS</a>]

00:03:20   it's like you file it on your head that that the revolutionary times were crazy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/200">TS</a>]

00:03:24   and that they were you know like the remnants of the medieval era was still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/204">TS</a>]

00:03:28   you know floating around was conquered most things doing with was mostly bandit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/208">TS</a>]

00:03:33   was in it was noticed i believe it common practice in England I think it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/213">TS</a>]

00:03:37   was practiced in the barbarous colonies right and i am reading the channel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/217">TS</a>]

00:03:41   biography of Hamilton now so I haven't gotten to the intricacies there i recall [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/221">TS</a>]

00:03:44   from my past reading and and bring some things after the play so become popular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/224">TS</a>]

00:03:49   went back and reread and they had to go to New Jersey and this line in the in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/229">TS</a>]

00:03:53   the musical yet you can do anything in New Jersey right you can just like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/233">TS</a>]

00:03:56   everything is legal in New Jersey the jack and they're going to jersey because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/236">TS</a>]

00:03:59   it was still ostensibly legal but no manslaughter was thin and murder still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/239">TS</a>]

00:04:03   illegal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/243">TS</a>]

00:04:04   so you could condense ibly in some states you could do all and if no one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/244">TS</a>]

00:04:08   was injured or killed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/248">TS</a>]

00:04:10   you might just walk away from it but such are not much of a dual though if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/250">TS</a>]

00:04:14   nobody's injector well it's to satisfy Honor I mean that's I think it's it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/254">TS</a>]

00:04:20   funny the ritualized violence there's a really great essay in new york times for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/260">TS</a>]

00:04:24   a few days ago these philosophers talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/264">TS</a>]

00:04:27   what violence is they argue that violence isn't an act itself it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/267">TS</a>]

00:04:31   violence has a cycle you know there's an attack you attack someone that's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/271">TS</a>]

00:04:35   personal violence their definition is that you're dealing with a cycle that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/275">TS</a>]

00:04:38   perpetuates itself that is violence and it's a great discussion that deals with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/278">TS</a>]

00:04:42   sports as a representation of of force and violence in a controlled fashion and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/282">TS</a>]

00:04:49   violence at the Trump rallies and it's I was blown away by it but doing is part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/289">TS</a>]

00:04:53   of that tradition is yes its overt violence but it is also under very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/293">TS</a>]

00:04:58   specific constraints and a lot of the time duels didn't result in anyone being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/298">TS</a>]

00:05:01   hit that was the point but everyone got to satisfy the fact that the express the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/301">TS</a>]

00:05:05   form of ritualized violence without actually killing someone but you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/305">TS</a>]

00:05:08   also kill somebody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/308">TS</a>]

00:05:10   so why did Bern Hamilton getting a duel I burn was well let's see this this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/310">TS</a>]

00:05:17   what you have to have to watch the musical 30 degrees can somehow spent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/317">TS</a>]

00:05:21   5,000 option tickets but that the dual the subject the duel was that basically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/321">TS</a>]

00:05:26   Hamilton was talking smack about birds and probably rightly so / really shifted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/326">TS</a>]

00:05:31   to whatever you need to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/331">TS</a>]

00:05:32   he doesn't love double-dealing Helton was not a pure character either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/332">TS</a>]

00:05:36   necessarily but he he had been speaking publicly and privately and i believe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/336">TS</a>]

00:05:41   there was a specific dinner at that some comments came through sober wanted him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/341">TS</a>]

00:05:46   to apologize and Hamilton said I'm not saying anything that's not true and even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/346">TS</a>]

00:05:51   though his son Hamilton son had been killed in a duel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/351">TS</a>]

00:05:54   not many years before and both he and berhad seconded this is part of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/354">TS</a>]

00:05:59   musical to had seconded another duel when they were younger they were the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/359">TS</a>]

00:06:03   seconds and in a case that involved i think was George Washington being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/363">TS</a>]

00:06:08   insulted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/368">TS</a>]

00:06:09   George Washington was more parties the dual even with that they went out there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/369">TS</a>]

00:06:13   and there's this long-running debate the musical is part of the channel biography [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/373">TS</a>]

00:06:16   is whether Hamilton intended to shoot her or not whether Burr was reacting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/376">TS</a>]

00:06:21   with intent or thought he was about to be shot and and fire directly but never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/381">TS</a>]

00:06:28   quite known and we're talking about 200-plus years later it's amazing i did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/388">TS</a>]

00:06:34   the the takeaway i took from school when I learned about it was that it in and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/394">TS</a>]

00:06:38   you know and again who knows how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/398">TS</a>]

00:06:40   I carried it is but it's it seems as though like most of the founding fathers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/400">TS</a>]

00:06:44   were were genuine statesman and then a couple of them we're for real hothead [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/404">TS</a>]

00:06:51   oh yeah well in there all I just I just watched the musical 1776 my kids my kids [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/411">TS</a>]

00:06:56   are all head up about Hamilton now and you know where the other coast and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/416">TS</a>]

00:07:00   tickets are $MONEY fortune so we will hopefully see it when it towards you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/420">TS</a>]

00:07:03   know a touring company to seattle probably a B Company in like four year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/423">TS</a>]

00:07:07   hit 23 Kurzweil will go pay too much to see here but I'm like a look there is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/427">TS</a>]

00:07:12   musical about the founding fathers like really really let's watch 1776 so we did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/432">TS</a>]

00:07:16   that I'd watched it for the incomparable we did an old movie club a couple of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/436">TS</a>]

00:07:20   years ago and watched and re-watched with them they loved it's all sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/440">TS</a>]

00:07:24   focus on John Adams primarily also Jefferson and Franklin and that I always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/444">TS</a>]

00:07:29   whenever I see these things like Michael read some more stuff about atoms they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/449">TS</a>]

00:07:33   are really interesting people they had rich lives that they were involved in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/453">TS</a>]

00:07:37   all kinds of stuff and they weren't they you know they were all people who have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/457">TS</a>]

00:07:43   their own lives in Congress was another thing wasn't there call wasn't seen as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/463">TS</a>]

00:07:48   one . in their life the content of Congress particularly but I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/468">TS</a>]

00:07:51   it's a fascinating and Bo Franklin course the fastening lived a long life [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/471">TS</a>]

00:07:55   and like sex workers and mistresses and all kinds of people and lived in France [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/475">TS</a>]

00:08:00   and came back and anyway so great a great bunch that that's the musical john [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/480">TS</a>]

00:08:06   adams apparently late-in-life wrote about how he was obnoxious and disliked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/486">TS</a>]

00:08:10   and late in life he looked quite a long time he and jefferson died on the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/490">TS</a>]

00:08:13   day they are bitter enemies they died many miles part of the same day which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/493">TS</a>]

00:08:17   one of those little and the day was july 4th yes that's right forgot you're right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/497">TS</a>]

00:08:22   mr. Foyle but an Adam's criticized his own personality late in life its musical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/502">TS</a>]

00:08:27   takes it up there's just a recurring line your boxes and disliked you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/507">TS</a>]

00:08:30   that sir and I but apparently it was actually quite well liked and he was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/510">TS</a>]

00:08:35   feeding himself too harshly late in life so he wasn't as obnoxious as you go also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/515">TS</a>]

00:08:40   brings to mind from a comment you had a couple minutes ago at the dylan song [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/520">TS</a>]

00:08:45   from the Traveling Wilburys moon in jersey everything's legal as long as you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/525">TS</a>]

00:08:49   don't get caught haha see Hamilton is great actually pulls from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/529">TS</a>]

00:08:53   physical theatre modern musical rap and hip-hop I heard like echoes of poems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/533">TS</a>]

00:08:59   were out like all of either so if you go to genius the annotated and people have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/539">TS</a>]

00:09:03   found it's not a pastiche but he pulls so lin-manuel miranda is a excellent in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/543">TS</a>]

00:09:11   terms of taking your ear and letting you hear an echo of something if you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/551">TS</a>]

00:09:14   tuning if you're not it sounds good but if your big hip-hop fan you'll hear you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/554">TS</a>]

00:09:18   know rhythms patterns lines the kind of characterization if your musical theater [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/558">TS</a>]

00:09:23   fan like I am you hear all kinds of things throughout you're like wait oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/563">TS</a>]

00:09:27   you know there's that references 1776 there's a reference to South Pacific [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/567">TS</a>]

00:09:31   Rodgers and Hammerstein and Sondheim references throughout sometime loves it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/571">TS</a>]

00:09:35   apparently which is great it looks like it's funny we're talking about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/575">TS</a>]

00:09:39   seventeen hundreds but it's not right a challenge because so is Apple the FBI so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/579">TS</a>]

00:09:44   what's cracking up like what is the deal that this musical sweeping the nation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/584">TS</a>]

00:09:48   and then suddenly appear as equality all writs Act has been modified for 250 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/588">TS</a>]

00:09:53   years but anyway it's just the way it always works out you know these things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/593">TS</a>]

00:09:56   these things happen it's it's clear dies the militants it's all right serendipity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/596">TS</a>]

00:10:01   is a real like almost like a force it is pretty amazing i'm now the details of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/601">TS</a>]

00:10:06   though it's kind of interesting we'll get into it again but it so it last week [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/606">TS</a>]

00:10:11   the federal government filed up their final brief which Apple initially took [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/611">TS</a>]

00:10:17   think it's fair to say took umbrage yes to several of the angles that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/617">TS</a>]

00:10:25   government took in it I thought this was interesting because i was invited to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/625">TS</a>]

00:10:30   to the conference calls that reporters were on both last weekend this week and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/630">TS</a>]

00:10:36   it was a real interesting difference like last week and they do them very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/636">TS</a>]

00:10:40   fast and it's it's obviously and I'll i enjoy thinking about this strategically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/640">TS</a>]

00:10:45   because I don't work fast right there in fireball is not a source of breaking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/645">TS</a>]

00:10:52   news the talk shows certainly is not as a source of breaking news i tend to i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/652">TS</a>]

00:10:59   tend to take my time and not not because i want to but because i have to add my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/659">TS</a>]

00:11:03   brain just doesn't work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/663">TS</a>]

00:11:05   quickly but it's fascinating to me to look at the the meta angle on it which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/665">TS</a>]

00:11:12   is that when these briefs drop Apple reacts very quickly so last week's call [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/672">TS</a>]

00:11:19   i think that it was on friday maybe it was Thursday Thursday or Friday last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/679">TS</a>]

00:11:22   week when the government put them without and apple held the call with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/682">TS</a>]

00:11:27   reporters an hour later so I I certainly hadn't gotten through the brief I guess [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/687">TS</a>]

00:11:36   Apple at you know that you know apples attorneys had the full hour before they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/696">TS</a>]

00:11:40   started the call [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/700">TS</a>]

00:11:42   Wow um and it's I guess that the strategy there is that they know that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/702">TS</a>]

00:11:49   once the brief is out the news media is some of the news media are going to you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/709">TS</a>]

00:11:53   know start writing takes an apple wants to spend get their spin on it out as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/713">TS</a>]

00:11:58   quickly as possible otherwise it's too late that they have to have you know if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/718">TS</a>]

00:12:02   they have to do something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/722">TS</a>]

00:12:04   press relations was quickly but I thought the difference between there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/724">TS</a>]

00:12:10   there there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/730">TS</a>]

00:12:12   what would you call it a hot take last week and this week is so different i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/732">TS</a>]

00:12:15   gets I detect a very quick cat cool confidence in their current argument but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/735">TS</a>]

00:12:22   anyway one of the things the government put in their brief last week was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/742">TS</a>]

00:12:26   reference to this is again this is back to what's the year 7 1807 Chief Justice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/746">TS</a>]

00:12:33   Marshall that the government claims once ordered a third party to quote provide [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/753">TS</a>]

00:12:37   decryption services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/757">TS</a>]

00:12:39   I've I wouldn't read the original transcripts that trial by the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/759">TS</a>]

00:12:42   ok that's fed that i cannot i did not i want to hear about it but that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/762">TS</a>]

00:12:47   government said that there's some precedent for for compelling somebody to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/767">TS</a>]

00:12:51   decrypt something that we can't decrypt is that Chief Justice Marshall had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/771">TS</a>]

00:12:55   ehrenberg secretary decrypt deciphered note and apple in its response i was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/775">TS</a>]

00:13:02   yesterday was a monday haha but yeah monday we got 100 yesterday yesterday [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/782">TS</a>]

00:13:08   was yesterday [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/788">TS</a>]

00:13:09   oh yeah it's all that but it's it's all a blur [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/789">TS</a>]

00:13:15   says that they got the government got it wrong that Marshall did nothing of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/795">TS</a>]

00:13:21   sort that the all writs Act had nothing to do was not even an issue in Burr and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/801">TS</a>]

00:13:26   what actually happened according to apple's brief is that ehrenberg [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/806">TS</a>]

00:13:29   secretary declined to state whether he quote understood the contents of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/809">TS</a>]

00:13:35   certain letter written in cipher on the ground that he might incriminate himself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/815">TS</a>]

00:13:38   so another team just poking the Fifth Amendment to declined to say whether he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/818">TS</a>]

00:13:41   understood the ciphered message and what the court decided was that he could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/821">TS</a>]

00:13:47   answer that because simply entering whether he understood the cipher would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/827">TS</a>]

00:13:51   not incriminate them right that's which is our fascinating if you're you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/831">TS</a>]

00:13:55   sort of a.e you know like at a like I am just sort of like a broad strokes like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/835">TS</a>]

00:14:02   interested in civil liberties and these in cases like this like edge cases [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/842">TS</a>]

00:14:06   around the Fifth Amendment can be fascinating and that's an interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/846">TS</a>]

00:14:09   one hears you know in its again what over 200 years ago its sophisticated [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/849">TS</a>]

00:14:14   question yeah they're leaving this is what I love living in 2016 and be able [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/854">TS</a>]

00:14:18   to pull up instantly transcripts of trials that happened over 200 years ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/858">TS</a>]

00:14:22   with the court anyway the bottom line this is from Apple's brief in a footnote [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/862">TS</a>]

00:14:25   the court did not require the clerk to decipher the letter that's correct [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/865">TS</a>]

00:14:31   that's correct [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/871">TS</a>]

00:14:32   who is he it was a it was the there are two questions being put in was do you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/872">TS</a>]

00:14:37   understand the size of that paper did the paper come from Colonel burr was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/877">TS</a>]

00:14:41   written by my bias direction the last question summary but last question ought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/881">TS</a>]

00:14:45   to have been first stated the witness does not say why the answer the question [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/885">TS</a>]

00:14:49   of the tenancy to criminate him and so it goes back and forth because the judge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/889">TS</a>]

00:14:53   ultimately the issue is if I right he didn't have to decipher their asked him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/893">TS</a>]

00:14:59   if he knew the contents of the letter not to provide the cipher key in fact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/899">TS</a>]

00:15:04   just to be pedantic here was both a code and decipher the code book actually to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/904">TS</a>]

00:15:09   that they will concern and burn others have been using the first one since the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/909">TS</a>]

00:15:13   1790s I think and then later when they modified that codes for like president [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/913">TS</a>]

00:15:18   vice-president France and so forth and then there was also a simple replacement [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/918">TS</a>]

00:15:21   site for that use the rotating leather scheme so you have a letter to the top [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/921">TS</a>]

00:15:25   like Cuba or France [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/925">TS</a>]

00:15:27   particularly you take the letters following them down assign the numbers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/927">TS</a>]

00:15:30   and then you could you read across the row to pick the numbers corresponding so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/930">TS</a>]

00:15:34   complicated for the day because you could work out simple site substitution [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/934">TS</a>]

00:15:39   ciphers are relatively easy to work out easier with computers but definitely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/939">TS</a>]

00:15:43   doable in the day and that's not that protected but codes are very difficult [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/943">TS</a>]

00:15:48   so without knowledge of the code you can determine from frequency of appearance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/948">TS</a>]

00:15:51   and other characteristics you can sometimes achieve this but he wasn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/951">TS</a>]

00:15:55   asked you know the cipher it was do you all right but it wasn't for the cipher [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/955">TS</a>]

00:16:01   right was asked do you know what it said do you understand the contents and he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/961">TS</a>]

00:16:05   was concerned that any statement would allow him to it would provide it would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/965">TS</a>]

00:16:11   put in the position of incrimination right fascinating but i have to say it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/971">TS</a>]

00:16:16   sounds to me like apples exactly right that it's no precedent whatsoever for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/976">TS</a>]

00:16:20   compelling somebody to decode and encrypted pretty clearly very clearly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/980">TS</a>]

00:16:26   anyway what's a one of the interesting side effects of all this and the end of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/986">TS</a>]

00:16:29   invoking things like these that this burr case is this that i did not know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/989">TS</a>]

00:16:34   that the founding fathers took work so commonly in use of codes and ciphers and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/994">TS</a>]

00:16:39   stuff ruling apparently one of the things i read was like the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/999">TS</a>]

00:16:42   Postmaster General was like a political enemy of a couple of them i forget which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1002">TS</a>]

00:16:49   I forget others that the way that their political things are aight i get it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1009">TS</a>]

00:16:54   mixed up but long story short that they they really felt some of them really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1014">TS</a>]

00:16:58   felt like they needed to because they knew that this Postmaster General was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1018">TS</a>]

00:17:01   reading your mail [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1021">TS</a>]

00:17:02   oh yeah there's a contrite mail was often open its interesting thing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1022">TS</a>]

00:17:06   our current mail system i have forgotten how far back the law goes it might be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1026">TS</a>]

00:17:10   the eighteenth and nineteenth century that it's illegal for any party to open [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1030">TS</a>]

00:17:14   the mail that concluding the post office except with like specific warrant or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1034">TS</a>]

00:17:18   subpoena another Hamilton musical reference by was Hercules Mulligan best [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1038">TS</a>]

00:17:23   name in the world he was transporting messages he was not a loyalist but he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1043">TS</a>]

00:17:27   was sort of a spy going back and forth to New York is a textile importer and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1047">TS</a>]

00:17:32   clothing shop is taylor and he and his slave whose name was Cato we're sending [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1052">TS</a>]

00:17:37   messages back and forth often in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1057">TS</a>]

00:17:39   code or in other you know trying to decide the meaning of it eventually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1059">TS</a>]

00:17:44   became too dangerous but he's one of the reasons that they were able to to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1064">TS</a>]

00:17:48   Hamilton was able to assist General Washington in some of the battles around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1068">TS</a>]

00:17:53   and it's amazing it is an amazing named Hercules molecule a smile again it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1073">TS</a>]

00:17:58   awesome great partner in the flight ya konan coats with an important part i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1078">TS</a>]

00:18:02   think i forget what the earliest cryptographic stuff is that there's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1082">TS</a>]

00:18:05   thing of wrapping a strip of paper around a cylinder assert dimension like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1085">TS</a>]

00:18:10   pencil-sized thing that was used so you could right across it and then unfurl it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1090">TS</a>]

00:18:14   must you the dimensions you will be able to figure it out all yeah I've seen that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1094">TS</a>]

00:18:17   I've seen that and that's I think where the earliest uses of script and simple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1097">TS</a>]

00:18:21   cipher substitution if you don't know what it is and it's only become more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1101">TS</a>]

00:18:25   complicated overtime but code has a code interception of code and people being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1105">TS</a>]

00:18:31   executed for possession of what was seen as code that was never decipher doll big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1111">TS</a>]

00:18:35   issues are mainly for thousands of years when i was a kid i got i spent a couple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1115">TS</a>]

00:18:39   I mean it's been a long time i was truly you know like grade school age but i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1119">TS</a>]

00:18:43   spent like you know a 1.1 of my obsessions became codes and stuff like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1123">TS</a>]

00:18:47   that and boom I very high speed to remember that one where you wrap the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1127">TS</a>]

00:18:51   paper around like a ruler type thing of a certain known with and and then when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1131">TS</a>]

00:18:59   you unwrap it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1139">TS</a>]

00:19:00   it just looks like gibberish again like you said that's not the most secure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1140">TS</a>]

00:19:03   nobody else knows it then I don't have sophistication the other side it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1143">TS</a>]

00:19:08   people like why someone with gibberish I i have a very vivid memory i am almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1148">TS</a>]

00:19:14   certain i was in first grade but it was certainly like first or second that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1154">TS</a>]

00:19:20   Kellogg's had a campaign and that three or four of their like flagship kitty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1160">TS</a>]

00:19:28   cereals had little little plastic things in them so like the toucan sam one might [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1168">TS</a>]

00:19:37   be blue and the frosted flakes Tony the Tiger one was yellow and maybe the Sugar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1177">TS</a>]

00:19:43   Smacks one was red [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1183">TS</a>]

00:19:45   you know with the rabbit rabbit or whatever his name was my ribbit frog you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1185">TS</a>]

00:19:49   know I mean but they're so used to be different colors and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1189">TS</a>]

00:19:53   and you would if they were all just a different like 26 character cypher you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1193">TS</a>]

00:19:59   know where it would just be a different rotation you know sort of like rock it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1199">TS</a>]

00:20:03   was like a rock 13 but you know Tony the Tiger's rot 17 and and the frog one was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1203">TS</a>]

00:20:09   rotten 11 or something like that but I was fascinated like AI as a first-grader [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1209">TS</a>]

00:20:13   I felt pretty clever that I figured out the differences between them but then it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1213">TS</a>]

00:20:18   was cool because then we was it like with friends at school we could send [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1218">TS</a>]

00:20:22   coded messages to each other and it took so long spent you know spinning the disk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1222">TS</a>]

00:20:25   it would just be like it's been altered drink your ovaltine yeah exactly eggs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1225">TS</a>]

00:20:32   attack it like i thought it's called the script script holly is the Greek rod [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1232">TS</a>]

00:20:38   that was used for encryption substitutions diaper I knew there is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1238">TS</a>]

00:20:41   something that's not the earliest Egyptians were maybe a thousand years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1241">TS</a>]

00:20:44   before for that there's also a famous story of the word Shibboleth you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1244">TS</a>]

00:20:50   it's a great story it's not about code per se but spies in a camp [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1250">TS</a>]

00:20:54   some might camp and the leader says say you now should be left in the spies were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1254">TS</a>]

00:21:01   unable to pronounce the show sound and they said symbol F and were put to death [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1261">TS</a>]

00:21:05   social life is like that pass phrase like a thing you say to be shown that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1265">TS</a>]

00:21:09   your member of a tribe always like that these divisions go back thousands of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1269">TS</a>]

00:21:14   years so I'm probably the origin of being able to put words on paper people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1274">TS</a>]

00:21:18   were figuring out ways to make other people not be able to read those right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1278">TS</a>]

00:21:21   well to communicate at length right yeah because you could always communicate in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1281">TS</a>]

00:21:25   private [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1285">TS</a>]

00:21:26   well I mean I mean obviously you could if your room is bugged or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1286">TS</a>]

00:21:28   there's there's ways around but if you where you see if you're reasonably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1288">TS</a>]

00:21:31   secure that your room is the room know you're an inn is not being bugged you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1291">TS</a>]

00:21:35   can have a private conversation with somebody that the trick is how do you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1295">TS</a>]

00:21:39   have a private conversation with somebody at a distance and it's like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1299">TS</a>]

00:21:42   said it's long as we've been communicating at a distance even if it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1302">TS</a>]

00:21:46   like just begin by sending dispatching a messenger there have been codes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1306">TS</a>]

00:21:51   yeah i mean how are you saying that my people aren't proof spaces is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1311">TS</a>]

00:21:55   exactly popular in our minds my grandparents grab my family was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1315">TS</a>]

00:21:59   furniture and pressure stores for many many years and my grandfather developed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1319">TS</a>]

00:22:03   a code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1323">TS</a>]

00:22:04   number code and letter code based on our last name and his mother's initial so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1324">TS</a>]

00:22:08   they could put the retail pro the wholesale price of things on the tags [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1328">TS</a>]

00:22:11   that customers knowing so we're gonna go shot the new exactly how they could go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1331">TS</a>]

00:22:14   see clever fell out my grandpa very very clever boy that's the type of thing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1334">TS</a>]

00:22:21   nowadays people you know yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1341">TS</a>]

00:22:25   eventually some consumer web site would come out with the yeah yeah go into this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1345">TS</a>]

00:22:29   mattress store has a deep especially ya know they can go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1349">TS</a>]

00:22:33   yeah alright let me take a break here and thank our sponsor it's our good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1353">TS</a>]

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00:22:47   favorite thing about casper mattresses they don't make you choose between like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1367">TS</a>]

00:22:51   two three four five six seven different types of mattresses are the technologies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1371">TS</a>]

00:22:55   and now they figured it out for you just the right sink just the right balance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1375">TS</a>]

00:22:59   they've taken to commonly used mattress technologies latex foam and memory foam [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1379">TS</a>]

00:23:04   and they've made their own custom cocktail between the two for better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1384">TS</a>]

00:23:10   nights and better days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1390">TS</a>]

00:23:11   good sleep so all you do is pick what size you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1391">TS</a>]

00:23:14   so you know what size bed you have so you just go there you need a new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1394">TS</a>]

00:23:17   mattress get the right size and as crazy as it sounds I know I've said this every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1397">TS</a>]

00:23:23   time they sponsor the show it sounds crazy to buy a mattress without like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1403">TS</a>]

00:23:26   trying it out but what kind of a tryout do you actually get a retail store [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1406">TS</a>]

00:23:29   anyway it's actually kind of gross because other people have slept on it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1409">TS</a>]

00:23:32   right and just like being there with all of your clothes on and laying on a bed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1412">TS</a>]

00:23:36   for two or three minutes isn't gonna tell you how you sleep on it so actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1416">TS</a>]

00:23:40   the way that Casper does it if you think about it it's a traditional but it makes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1420">TS</a>]

00:23:44   a lot more sense they have a risk-free trial and return policy you try sleeping [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1424">TS</a>]

00:23:48   on a Casper for a hundred days and if you don't like it up to a hundred days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1428">TS</a>]

00:23:54   they'll do just call them up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1434">TS</a>]

00:23:56   go to the website and they'll take care of free will just take it right back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1436">TS</a>]

00:24:00   no no questions asked I've even heard from listener the show sent me an email [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1440">TS</a>]

00:24:05   and said that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1445">TS</a>]

00:24:07   that they did it and that they bought it because it was on the show and it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1447">TS</a>]

00:24:11   like for whatever reason wasn't wasn't to their liking and it and and said in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1451">TS</a>]

00:24:17   little just wanted to say I know you keep saying that they take them back but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1457">TS</a>]

00:24:20   it literally was as easy as can possibly be to take a mattress back here is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1460">TS</a>]

00:24:25   sum of their prices it retailed ego retail for mattresses you're probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1465">TS</a>]

00:24:28   gonna pay like $1,500 or more for premium mattress Casper's start at 504 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1468">TS</a>]

00:24:33   twin 754 full 854 queen and just nine hundred fifty bucks for a king-size [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1473">TS</a>]

00:24:39   mattress so you just can't lose [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1479">TS</a>]

00:24:42   here's where you go for more information go to Casper dot-com cispr dot-com / the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1482">TS</a>]

00:24:48   talk show and use that code the the talk show and you'll say fifty bucks off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1488">TS</a>]

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00:24:58   you want to send it back and great prices Casper calm / the talk show so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1498">TS</a>]

00:25:07   guess we should talk in detail about the Apple FBI case [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1507">TS</a>]

00:25:12   yeah . gentlemen weekend especially because i feel like this is the one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1512">TS</a>]

00:25:15   thing this is the thing I mean we can talk about next week's event and what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1515">TS</a>]

00:25:18   our last minute speculation is whatever but that's it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1518">TS</a>]

00:25:21   you know it's interesting but it's of the moment whereas that this F Apple FBI [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1521">TS</a>]

00:25:25   thing is is truly I I don't think it's hyperbole I think it's genuinely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1525">TS</a>]

00:25:30   important to the future of the Republic I i am absolutely i think it's actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1530">TS</a>]

00:25:34   one of the most fundamental issues of privacy we could possibly facing out and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1534">TS</a>]

00:25:39   we have the best advocate on our side and the government and extremely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1539">TS</a>]

00:25:44   disappointed the unlockable administration's stance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1544">TS</a>]

00:25:47   I feel like we're for being sold out because rich mogul has this line to talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1547">TS</a>]

00:25:54   to him about it he says it's not on my watch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1554">TS</a>]

00:25:56   isn't that is what is driving and he says he's worked with law enforcement a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1556">TS</a>]

00:26:00   lot a lot of good takes on this subject and he said nobody wants to be the guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1560">TS</a>]

00:26:04   when the event happens and you could have been something else and you didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1564">TS</a>]

00:26:08   do everything so the FBI is doing is scorched earth policy to break apart [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1568">TS</a>]

00:26:12   this thing they try to find a test case because james comey and a few other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1572">TS</a>]

00:26:16   people are saying this is not going to be the thing where we lose not i'm not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1576">TS</a>]

00:26:20   gonna be the person responsible for the next terrorist event so I'm going to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1580">TS</a>]

00:26:23   everything even if potentially it threatens Liberty that's not my concern [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1583">TS</a>]

00:26:26   my concern is preventing this attack and I think it's true too i think they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1586">TS</a>]

00:26:30   being such Bulldogs about it it but I i agree with you i think this is a tough [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1590">TS</a>]

00:26:34   that you been writing about this I think is a wonderful way the waterproof spaces [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1594">TS</a>]

00:26:39   is a big issue and company said that I and then Jonathan knows the gr ski has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1599">TS</a>]

00:26:44   been writing about this too is just wrote recently about how there are many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1604">TS</a>]

00:26:47   waterproof spaces in america american law and the Constitution state laws [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1607">TS</a>]

00:26:51   carve out lots of places in which warrants aren't allowed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1611">TS</a>]

00:26:54   great post but are we allowed only the privacy of our own mind what here's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1614">TS</a>]

00:27:00   thing you know you're not talking about this on twitter is there's always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1620">TS</a>]

00:27:03   natural extensions should ISPs preserve every email you ever sent like coming to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1623">TS</a>]

00:27:07   the email permanently [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1627">TS</a>]

00:27:09   what if their brain scanners what if brain scans existed tomorrow there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1629">TS</a>]

00:27:12   technology starting to be able to pull images out of people's heads right with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1632">TS</a>]

00:27:16   fats I mean would they be right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1636">TS</a>]

00:27:18   would they be allowed to use that honest suspect in custody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1638">TS</a>]

00:27:21   like it's not science fiction right it's not science fiction we're seeing I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1641">TS</a>]

00:27:24   people are showing their actually like having some glimmerings of this where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1644">TS</a>]

00:27:27   it's real it's something that's not telepathy its science in a lab they can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1647">TS</a>]

00:27:30   show and so holy cow you know this isn't impractical theoretically could they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1650">TS</a>]

00:27:34   compel a criminal suspect that too to have like a brain scan and ask them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1654">TS</a>]

00:27:41   questions sort of like that it like worked today it's a lie detector test [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1661">TS</a>]

00:27:44   statistic magic like what is the passcode to your phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1664">TS</a>]

00:27:47   what's the passcode to your phone and if they read a number out of the guy's head [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1667">TS</a>]

00:27:51   and try it and it works is that admit now but I'm exactly so I don't do it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1671">TS</a>]

00:27:55   live it i know that i don't think they can do that today to my knowledge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1675">TS</a>]

00:27:58   there's no such device today but that does not seem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1678">TS</a>]

00:28:01   like it's the unreasonable even within the scope of your my lifetimes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1681">TS</a>]

00:28:05   I mean in terms of absolutely not the way that that that we're starting to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1685">TS</a>]

00:28:08   understand the brain and I've said this before i said this on the show and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1688">TS</a>]

00:28:11   really it to me it really it's interesting what if what if the some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1691">TS</a>]

00:28:19   future computing device that it provides capabilities like what we used today [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1699">TS</a>]

00:28:23   with an iphone what if it's embedded in your body but if it's something that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1703">TS</a>]

00:28:28   place in your wrist [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1708">TS</a>]

00:28:30   what if it's something you do put in your head right but what if it's a and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1710">TS</a>]

00:28:35   again I i'm not an expert on Alzheimer's and I know that there are some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1715">TS</a>]

00:28:40   biological you know what the solutions are our improvements to to alzheimer's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1720">TS</a>]

00:28:45   research going on but what if you know somebody 10 15 20 years from now invents [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1725">TS</a>]

00:28:50   some kind of very small system-on-a-chip that can be embedded in somebody's brain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1730">TS</a>]

00:28:55   to help with the the cognitive decline then the dementia that's caused by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1735">TS</a>]

00:29:04   Alzheimer's it would that device [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1744">TS</a>]

00:29:07   therefore you know then be susceptible to the government reading the contents [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1747">TS</a>]

00:29:13   of it to me did you know it it's not a preposterous to to pose hypotheticals [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1753">TS</a>]

00:29:20   like that and my answer would be no you know that it's it's no different than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1760">TS</a>]

00:29:24   there's not that much different and it's going to be less as time goes on between [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1764">TS</a>]

00:29:28   artificial digital devices and our capability of reading the you know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1768">TS</a>]

00:29:37   the meccanian of treating our brains is the mechanical devices they are at a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1777">TS</a>]

00:29:41   certain level it's it's also i think the waterproof space is a great metaphor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1781">TS</a>]

00:29:45   because in fact every place we have in in our brains and in reality that we own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1785">TS</a>]

00:29:50   our all want proof space until the war is produced and I think there's this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1790">TS</a>]

00:29:54   interesting thing where the view of the FBI as they've expressed the Department [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1794">TS</a>]

00:29:58   of Justice is that all spaces are open to the government on demand and that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1798">TS</a>]

00:30:02   simply not mean it is both true and not true [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1802">TS</a>]

00:30:05   people can also Express civil disobedience and be jailed for contempt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1805">TS</a>]

00:30:08   or for violating court orders or other charges they can go to jail for refusing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1808">TS</a>]

00:30:12   you have a lot of people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1812">TS</a>]

00:30:13   nobody in the past sometimes in oblique gone to jail rather than give up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1813">TS</a>]

00:30:19   information or or access or locations of things i think by default we should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1819">TS</a>]

00:30:24   assume that all places are private [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1824">TS</a>]

00:30:26   I think this notion is ajar ski wrote about this also is that the Bill of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1826">TS</a>]

00:30:30   Rights is not a instructions on what the government can do its instructions on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1830">TS</a>]

00:30:35   what citizens rights are and it prescribes the government from doing so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1835">TS</a>]

00:30:41   much so it's not a plan to use to circumvent rights it's a giant wall to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1841">TS</a>]

00:30:47   prohibit the government from excess and so the idea that every space we own is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1847">TS</a>]

00:30:51   really owned by the government is terrifying that's really you know it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1851">TS</a>]

00:30:54   very much a conservative and far-right view that the government you know any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1854">TS</a>]

00:30:58   Democrat Democrat elected government would be have that in place of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1858">TS</a>]

00:31:03   government owns all spaces so they're playing into the hands at some point of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1863">TS</a>]

00:31:06   that and I think people who are on the left of the spectrum would say also that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1866">TS</a>]

00:31:10   even if they believe in a bigger role for government or different nature of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1870">TS</a>]

00:31:13   government regulation and control that the government having sort of a defacto [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1873">TS</a>]

00:31:17   right to all of our private spaces our homes our computers and you know by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1877">TS</a>]

00:31:22   extension reminds that that also is not in keeping with the nature of what you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1882">TS</a>]

00:31:27   know civil human rights are being our and it would be in the nature of our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1887">TS</a>]

00:31:32   country so I mean you come down this is like what percentage of iphones are used [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1892">TS</a>]

00:31:38   for crime notes . 00 whatever percent and the idea that all iphones have to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1898">TS</a>]

00:31:44   open to inspection at any time like bags going through it an x-ray machine or the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1904">TS</a>]

00:31:48   TSA with their locks that have been duplicated because they allowed photos [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1908">TS</a>]

00:31:51   to be taken of the master register Keys like that's what the FBI is proposing is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1911">TS</a>]

00:31:56   will have a way for you know the TSA style investigators to get in which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1916">TS</a>]

00:32:00   means everyone get it right and there's a the part that to me is the most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1920">TS</a>]

00:32:05   disappointing single most disappointing and in the in the Obama administration [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1925">TS</a>]

00:32:11   and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1931">TS</a>]

00:32:11   you know I'll just admit it and in Hillary Clinton has a spouse the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1931">TS</a>]

00:32:16   opinion is a belief in this magical thinking that if we just put smart [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1936">TS</a>]

00:32:20   enough people into a room together that they can come up with a way that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1940">TS</a>]

00:32:24   this would this backdoor solution would only be available to law enforcement [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1944">TS</a>]

00:32:28   that we're not asking you to make a backdoor that anybody could get into we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1948">TS</a>]

00:32:33   just want to backdoor that law enforcement can get into when we have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1953">TS</a>]

00:32:37   warrant which sounds reasonable and in some you know fictional other universe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1957">TS</a>]

00:32:42   where that's mathematically possible that might be great i actually I i think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1962">TS</a>]

00:32:47   that there's good reasons why a civil libertarian would be opposed even to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1967">TS</a>]

00:32:51   that idea like a like let me just put this out there that and and I tend to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1971">TS</a>]

00:32:56   lean that way i would listen to the argument but i tend to lean towards even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1976">TS</a>]

00:33:00   if that were possible i don't think it's a good idea and I think it's contrary to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1980">TS</a>]

00:33:04   the values that are already in our bill of rights but it is an idea but the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1984">TS</a>]

00:33:09   simple truth is that it's math all experts agree [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1989">TS</a>]

00:33:12   everybody who understands encryption dennis is it I i don't think that you it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1992">TS</a>]

00:33:17   it's more than even like a i mean it's it's like provably incorrect you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/1997">TS</a>]

00:33:24   like as opposed to let's say climate change where you can say you can argue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2004">TS</a>]

00:33:27   that only 98 or 99 percent of expert climate scientists agree that the you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2007">TS</a>]

00:33:33   know what we're seeing is man-made [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2013">TS</a>]

00:33:34   I mean with with cryptography and back doors it's a hundred percent agreement [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2014">TS</a>]

00:33:38   because of where you're totally right i just realized I haven't seen any any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2018">TS</a>]

00:33:42   crypto deniers out there doing this is possible only see politicians in law [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2022">TS</a>]

00:33:46   enforcement right it's an expensive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2026">TS</a>]

00:33:48   well that's part of the beauty of trying to convince 12 your own son of it i'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2028">TS</a>]

00:33:53   trying to get when i talk to my twelve-year-old son it does not have the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2033">TS</a>]

00:33:56   enthusiasm from mathematics that I did that that's the beauty of mathematics [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2036">TS</a>]

00:34:00   it's it's it you know and and it in the way that computer science sort of falls [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2040">TS</a>]

00:34:07   out of mathematics could go a long way in here like when I went to drexel I got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2047">TS</a>]

00:34:11   my degree in computer science it was from the Department of math and computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2051">TS</a>]

00:34:16   science [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2056">TS</a>]

00:34:17   it was one department from mathematics and computer science and it well they've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2057">TS</a>]

00:34:20   since broken it out in that computer science is often a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2060">TS</a>]

00:34:23   I don't know what they did but it's an expensive building probably yeah I i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2063">TS</a>]

00:34:28   think that but i think that what happened is that politically the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2068">TS</a>]

00:34:31   computer science department grew to you know used to be like it was the math [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2071">TS</a>]

00:34:36   department with a little cookie computer science group of professors and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2076">TS</a>]

00:34:41   computer science got so popular and so important to our society that growth but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2081">TS</a>]

00:34:45   anyway I just thought and it's not just because i went two directions where they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2085">TS</a>]

00:34:49   put them together it just made sense to me though that when you type a computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2089">TS</a>]

00:34:52   program and it either works or doesn't work it's it there's a certain Beauty to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2092">TS</a>]

00:34:57   that and I think a lot of the people who listen to the show are probably not in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2097">TS</a>]

00:35:00   your head like that's why they got into this racket because there's a statistics [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2100">TS</a>]

00:35:05   just sore statistics lie math doesn't write correct and it's you know it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2105">TS</a>]

00:35:12   just disappointing to me that they keep you know pushing back on that there was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2112">TS</a>]

00:35:15   a there's a line that Apple's attorneys used its was in the sort of off the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2115">TS</a>]

00:35:21   record you can paraphrase you know the rules were from the call that you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2121">TS</a>]

00:35:26   paraphrase it not quoted directly but the gist of it was that that they talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2126">TS</a>]

00:35:31   to us law-enforcement frequently and they are happy to do so and happy to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2131">TS</a>]

00:35:37   work with the government and that they are of course you know opposed to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2137">TS</a>]

00:35:42   terrorism and crime and all this stuff and that they are also happy to you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2142">TS</a>]

00:35:47   willing and happy to comply with warrants and provide information that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2147">TS</a>]

00:35:51   they have but that every time they meet with law enforcement about this issue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2151">TS</a>]

00:35:57   law enforcement US law enforcement comes at the discussion with the angle of how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2157">TS</a>]

00:36:04   can you let us into the iphone and never wants to discuss the question of should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2164">TS</a>]

00:36:11   we be able to get into the iphone it's just not it there intransigent in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2171">TS</a>]

00:36:17   transit gent on the point of how do we get into the iphone oh here let me give [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2177">TS</a>]

00:36:22   you a good thought experiment because i think there's this issuer people i want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2182">TS</a>]

00:36:27   to say that I keep stating on the macro podcast everywhere I keep saying look I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2187">TS</a>]

00:36:31   absolutely support the right of illegal boring i don't like extra judicial stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2191">TS</a>]

00:36:34   i don't like the visor court [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2194">TS</a>]

00:36:36   I don't like extra [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2196">TS</a>]

00:36:37   constitutional things legal rendition all that stuff i like the legality the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2197">TS</a>]

00:36:42   constitutionally created warrants right and i think the FBI should be seeking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2202">TS</a>]

00:36:47   every available reasonable means and sometimes even almost unreasonable with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2207">TS</a>]

00:36:52   a court holding them and checks they don't violate the Constitution totally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2212">TS</a>]

00:36:55   support that I am absolutely a I want to trust the government the government [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2215">TS</a>]

00:36:58   isn't always trustworthy but i believe it's the best system we have to ensure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2218">TS</a>]

00:37:01   justice we need to improve the quality of Justice as opposed to constraining [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2221">TS</a>]

00:37:04   them from being able to use tools that are legal and and courts oversee in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2224">TS</a>]

00:37:09   public way that is fair or whatever so here's a thought experiment i was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2229">TS</a>]

00:37:13   reading a paper academic paper year or so ago you know that cameras and cell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2233">TS</a>]

00:37:18   phones being that dsl dollars are so good now that they can extract a face [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2238">TS</a>]

00:37:23   from the reflection in an object in the pic lee subject so you're taking a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2243">TS</a>]

00:37:29   picture you're behind the camera a reflection even my Newton anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2249">TS</a>]

00:37:33   you're taking a picture of can be reconstructed to provide a decent facial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2253">TS</a>]

00:37:36   match against you and this is today right this is a couple years ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2256">TS</a>]

00:37:40   actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2260">TS</a>]

00:37:41   so when we have 20 megapixel or 50 mega pixel or photographic computational [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2261">TS</a>]

00:37:45   photographic equipment and everything our iphones 17 cameras on them whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2265">TS</a>]

00:37:48   right so here's the picture here's the the snare you and this is where I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2268">TS</a>]

00:37:52   we would agree on let's find out is that FBR long person says ah we know there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2272">TS</a>]

00:37:58   are several people in the vicinity of this event and they were taking pictures [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2278">TS</a>]

00:38:02   we believe we can recover the face for a reflection of the actual criminal and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2282">TS</a>]

00:38:06   they subpoenaed the phones or they know they demand they want to use it as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2286">TS</a>]

00:38:09   evidence in my view I think that's totally legitimate now is now and could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2289">TS</a>]

00:38:15   these people be compelled under all writs Act provided maybe not maybe they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2295">TS</a>]

00:38:17   would say yesterday they seem so you know that request to want this photo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2297">TS</a>]

00:38:21   some people handing over those photos thinking they were legally obliged to to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2301">TS</a>]

00:38:24   aid in this that seems reasonable to me where the line will be crossed as if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2304">TS</a>]

00:38:28   like in this case they said oh we need to use the all writs act to break the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2308">TS</a>]

00:38:32   encryption because some of the witnesses refused to turn over their phones we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2312">TS</a>]

00:38:35   think there's a picture of the killer in that scene [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2315">TS</a>]

00:38:38   what are you hi Terry it's you know that's exactly what a warrant is ID in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2318">TS</a>]

00:38:43   my opinion you know you can you ask for permission to search whatever a room [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2323">TS</a>]

00:38:48   house [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2328">TS</a>]

00:38:49   a filing cabinet digital device and what they can get off it they can get off it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2329">TS</a>]

00:38:57   but if all they get off it is a it strongly encrypted jumble of ones and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2337">TS</a>]

00:39:04   zeros that stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2344">TS</a>]

00:39:06   yeah maybe that's an eye on so that's that's the thing I miss the difference [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2346">TS</a>]

00:39:10   of two parallel case you know where its but I think we're going to see I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2350">TS</a>]

00:39:13   based on this we're going to see a lot more use the all writs act and I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2353">TS</a>]

00:39:17   they're gonna be like that i think a lot of citizens or small companies or even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2357">TS</a>]

00:39:20   bigger companies are going to feel compelled to do it to obey and I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2360">TS</a>]

00:39:24   the president said here will affect things like that will be you know what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2364">TS</a>]

00:39:27   it is i think there's going to be a massively increasing number of cases in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2367">TS</a>]

00:39:31   which people who are innocent bystandard standards will have evidence that we've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2371">TS</a>]

00:39:36   useful because of digital data collection audio or video images or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2376">TS</a>]

00:39:40   anything else but that's also a very different thing than compelling it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2380">TS</a>]

00:39:44   innocent bystanders to take action to say 22 for example say this you know we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2384">TS</a>]

00:39:51   have reason to believe that you know some sort of crime is going to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2391">TS</a>]

00:39:56   committed in this area therefore we you know that an exam tell you this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2396">TS</a>]

00:40:02   exactly the path that this sort of President can go down we want the right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2402">TS</a>]

00:40:06   to turn on the camera and recording of every every I file it you know in range [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2406">TS</a>]

00:40:12   of this cell power put opticon OS right and only you know here we have we know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2412">TS</a>]

00:40:19   it we're not saying everywhere you know anywhere and everywhere saying right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2419">TS</a>]

00:40:22   here in the vicinity of yeah you know whatever street in whatever street in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2422">TS</a>]

00:40:26   whatever city but we have good reason for it and therefore we should you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2426">TS</a>]

00:40:31   when we require the ability to do this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2431">TS</a>]

00:40:34   that is very much within the realm of what people would ask me look that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2434">TS</a>]

00:40:37   already happy with cars we know that law enforcement wants to get information the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2437">TS</a>]

00:40:41   cars look I was talking two carmakers last year about you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2441">TS</a>]

00:40:45   car robots self-driving cars and the deal is like this is the thing keep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2445">TS</a>]

00:40:50   going back to what we are seeing today is the tip of the iceberg of data [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2450">TS</a>]

00:40:53   collection both us watching the watchmen watch for watching us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2453">TS</a>]

00:40:56   and it seems like it's already ridiculous right in the future our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2456">TS</a>]

00:41:00   clothing has been covered with cameras I mean I'm exaggerating but like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2460">TS</a>]

00:41:02   everything cars are going to festoon the one of the limitations there's a point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2462">TS</a>]

00:41:06   at which you can have too many cameras in a car you're collecting too much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2466">TS</a>]

00:41:10   information that point is not been hit yet i think if the end because of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2470">TS</a>]

00:41:13   computational photography where you can combine images for many cameras or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2473">TS</a>]

00:41:17   different kinds of imagery from cameras to obtain more information like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2477">TS</a>]

00:41:21   we talked about 3d cameras on cars are really 2d stereoscopic cameras or RGB [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2481">TS</a>]

00:41:26   plus depth and use infrared or laser for arranging that kind of information you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2486">TS</a>]

00:41:31   can also obtain some cases if you have more cameras you don't need the ranging [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2491">TS</a>]

00:41:34   part is all these things are going to happen so at some point our camera so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2494">TS</a>]

00:41:37   you can triangulate the three-dimensional aspect of it from the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2497">TS</a>]

00:41:40   two different angles [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2500">TS</a>]

00:41:41   yeah they're seeing some really some really interesting paper so at some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2501">TS</a>]

00:41:44   point we're going to our phones are going to recording a hundred percent of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2504">TS</a>]

00:41:47   time we're going to be having wearable devices if they're watching would have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2507">TS</a>]

00:41:49   watched whatever they're constantly ready and on recording video and audio [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2509">TS</a>]

00:41:52   unless we disable them and everything is going to constantly recording and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2512">TS</a>]

00:41:56   streaming terabytes of data that's actually processed to pull out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2516">TS</a>]

00:42:00   information so we are going into a future with what you're describing is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2520">TS</a>]

00:42:03   reality there could be a continuous 3d like coverage in any area of any minimal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2523">TS</a>]

00:42:09   population density between nest cam style things and our phones and watches [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2529">TS</a>]

00:42:14   and cars so what if the government wants to compel that we like 10 minutes in an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2534">TS</a>]

00:42:18   hour [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2538">TS</a>]

00:42:18   hit this button in every cameras record that for the next 10 minutes and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2538">TS</a>]

00:42:22   get you know terabyte of information or petabyte for that I'm could skip over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2542">TS</a>]

00:42:28   and skipping around a little bit but i think it applies but one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2548">TS</a>]

00:42:30   highlights i have in Apple's me yesterday was from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2550">TS</a>]

00:42:36   talking about this colonial law CL EA yeah i was really fast and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2556">TS</a>]

00:42:41   government is sort of arguing that Scalia doesn't apply to apple in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2561">TS</a>]

00:42:46   case and apple is arguing yes exactly applies to us yes it's and one of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2566">TS</a>]

00:42:55   here's the passage highlighted camellias legislative history makes clear the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2575">TS</a>]

00:42:59   sound policy reasons behind it specific limitations on when decription services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2579">TS</a>]

00:43:04   can be required during congressional hearings on Clea then FBI director louis [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2584">TS</a>]

00:43:09   freeh assured senator I would lay that's Pat Leahy from Vermont that kalia would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2589">TS</a>]

00:43:16   not impede the growth of new technologies when Senator Leahy asked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2596">TS</a>]

00:43:20   whether Clea would inhibit the growth of encryption free responded quote this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2600">TS</a>]

00:43:26   legislation does not ask companies to decrypt it just tells them to give us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2606">TS</a>]

00:43:31   the bits as they have them if they are encrypted that is my problem which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2611">TS</a>]

00:43:38   what i'm saying is that yes i think that the FBI should have the rights to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2618">TS</a>]

00:43:41   the contents of this suspect phone but if the contents of the phone or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2621">TS</a>]

00:43:45   scrambled and and the FBI is technically incapable of you know decrypting them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2625">TS</a>]

00:43:50   that's their problem and I don't say that to be callous I you know in terms [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2630">TS</a>]

00:43:55   of what if in some other hypothetical case the information would actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2635">TS</a>]

00:43:59   prove useful to to getting a conviction of someone who actually did something or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2639">TS</a>]

00:44:03   what if it was it some sort of information on a phone that they can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2643">TS</a>]

00:44:07   access would have information that could prevent something in the future I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2647">TS</a>]

00:44:10   those things will happen but it-it-it there is no perfect solution [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2650">TS</a>]

00:44:15   oh yeah I wanted to supercuts circle back about this too is we talk about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2655">TS</a>]

00:44:20   political spectrum it applies directly here too is that it's hilarious to see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2660">TS</a>]

00:44:23   people all the way from this on the spectrum from say anarchist to you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2663">TS</a>]

00:44:27   right-wing fundamentalist who are all like its absolute limit Aryan I am I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2667">TS</a>]

00:44:33   love that aspect is that the cryptographers cryptographic community [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2673">TS</a>]

00:44:36   has people across the larger political spectrum and i think almost who are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2676">TS</a>]

00:44:40   prominent in it let's say that almost any other field of endeavor i can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2680">TS</a>]

00:44:44   imagine so you've got whitfield diffie you've got moxie of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2684">TS</a>]

00:44:47   Martin's because Mike you've got David what's the face [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2687">TS</a>]

00:44:52   Robert for a telegram from a rather security you got people across a huge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2692">TS</a>]

00:44:59   spectrum right and some people come from dictatorship based societies and escape [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2699">TS</a>]

00:45:04   them some are living in societies are becoming repressive summer in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2704">TS</a>]

00:45:07   democracies are sensible democracies and they're all like yeah okay maybe there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2707">TS</a>]

00:45:11   different reasons are you with some people may or may not be in favor of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2711">TS</a>]

00:45:15   backdoor none of them to scream over what you're saying there is no way to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2715">TS</a>]

00:45:18   create that and so if you're an anarchist or you know Raging repairing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2718">TS</a>]

00:45:23   you got the same view like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2723">TS</a>]

00:45:24   can I can't be done I really enjoyed keep them pondering over my head rich [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2724">TS</a>]

00:45:29   moguls description of it that it's sort of a cover-your-ass mentality or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2729">TS</a>]

00:45:32   like--he's you're seeing his words are not on my watch but its cover cover your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2732">TS</a>]

00:45:36   own ass because that's one way since the only way to really make sense and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2736">TS</a>]

00:45:40   yeah it's very disappointing though because it's it the implications are so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2740">TS</a>]

00:45:44   severe I have a feeling I'm again I could be wrong and that's why it's it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2744">TS</a>]

00:45:50   nervous watching this go down I have a feeling that Apple might do well in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2750">TS</a>]

00:45:56   case I think Apple I think they should it's not just because I'm hoping and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2756">TS</a>]

00:45:59   that I my personal preferences that Apple wins this case i actually think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2759">TS</a>]

00:46:04   that on the facts and based on that the law feel like that they should win [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2764">TS</a>]

00:46:09   well there's if they had it's so bizarre it's like I there's so many different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2769">TS</a>]

00:46:15   bases in this brief spells out a lot of them my what the FBI department justice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2775">TS</a>]

00:46:20   requesting is unprecedented or in this reading and you know I've been following [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2780">TS</a>]

00:46:24   this close never read this brief and some others in depth this one of it very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2784">TS</a>]

00:46:27   much in depth because it's you know kind of the Crocs right now and because the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2787">TS</a>]

00:46:31   FBI went to sort of name calling doj is not saying things that are just kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2791">TS</a>]

00:46:34   it's like it feels like watching someone spin out of control you like looking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2794">TS</a>]

00:46:37   intervention here and Obama is not your inventions apparently he's like he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2797">TS</a>]

00:46:41   like being your you're codependent enabler here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2801">TS</a>]

00:46:43   yeah but you read this you're like look at the all writs Act has never encompass [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2803">TS</a>]

00:46:47   this and there's plenty of evidence like any other setting a species the clea the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2807">TS</a>]

00:46:51   legislative history previous whatever then you have like basically every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2811">TS</a>]

00:46:55   person who used to be an intelligence or law enforcement was at a high level who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2815">TS</a>]

00:46:59   is no longer in that office thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2819">TS</a>]

00:47:01   yeah like what you've done with your office once supported call me because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2821">TS</a>]

00:47:04   had to like what about now like no no I mean that the interviews with Richard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2824">TS</a>]

00:47:08   Clark yeah Michael Hayden with you and like parks NPR review is astonishing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2828">TS</a>]

00:47:14   he said he's like it's called the NSA we could they could do it right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2834">TS</a>]

00:47:17   well that that's interesting to me now number 1 i've found that post 9-11 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2837">TS</a>]

00:47:22   richard clark was fine one of the most thoughtful and a truly impressive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2842">TS</a>]

00:47:27   individuals it you know in the US government I green especially I've been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2847">TS</a>]

00:47:33   a huge fan of his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2853">TS</a>]

00:47:35   i I can't even think of a single point that I've ever really disagreed with him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2855">TS</a>]

00:47:38   on I get released and he's you know open my mind to all sorts of things that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2858">TS</a>]

00:47:42   had never thought of like he's exactly the sort of person who I would want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2862">TS</a>]

00:47:45   be that you know who he was and who I wish we had more of a national security [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2865">TS</a>]

00:47:51   positions so when I say I my gut feeling would be that if the FBI gave this phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2871">TS</a>]

00:48:00   to the NSA I bet the NSA could could crack this phone and knows something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2880">TS</a>]

00:48:05   about knows a way to get in but that's just based on you know me my hunch it as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2885">TS</a>]

00:48:10   to what I think the NSA can do pretty much completely uninformed but just sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2890">TS</a>]

00:48:14   of you know it just seems to make sense when Richard Clark says is pretty sure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2894">TS</a>]

00:48:20   that if you gave this phone to the NSA they could get in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2900">TS</a>]

00:48:23   it's like go to the cashier and put your money on on that horse [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2903">TS</a>]

00:48:28   oh yeah what yeah anything I think anything that Apple could do to their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2908">TS</a>]

00:48:31   own operating system the NSA could do plus the NSA can disassemble it to like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2911">TS</a>]

00:48:36   a sub molecular level right i mean they're not magicians right there you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2916">TS</a>]

00:48:40   know they have the best people who are not working in cryptography in public [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2920">TS</a>]

00:48:44   and private enterprise is a private enterprise rather and in public sector [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2924">TS</a>]

00:48:48   open jobs they're working at the NSA I mean this is the thing that you I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2928">TS</a>]

00:48:52   love how our government is using the NSA and the FBI to gather information I do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2932">TS</a>]

00:48:57   respect the people the FBI CIA NSA are some there's some people in there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2937">TS</a>]

00:49:02   many many people based on some things here are some of the smartest people on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2942">TS</a>]

00:49:06   the planet and they're going there because they're told look do you want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2946">TS</a>]

00:49:09   work with the most interesting thing you can never talk about it maybe like four [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2949">TS</a>]

00:49:12   decades or ever right but you're going to work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2952">TS</a>]

00:49:14   with the most interesting cutting-edge technology ideas and hardware and theory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2954">TS</a>]

00:49:20   that no one else in the world work with your gonna go there there people go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2960">TS</a>]

00:49:24   there they may have moral qualms predator on it doesn't enter into it or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2964">TS</a>]

00:49:27   they support the missions but it is a it's kind of an interesting poll right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2967">TS</a>]

00:49:31   so I'm sure that this so i want to talk about employment issues just for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2971">TS</a>]

00:49:37   second to because this comes back to this Apple brief so let's say Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2977">TS</a>]

00:49:41   losses and is compelled alright hold that hold that thought you know where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2981">TS</a>]

00:49:46   you're going and it's too long of a segment I want to do i would i'm gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2986">TS</a>]

00:49:49   hold my breath you're gonna let me just say this before i do the sponsor I just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2989">TS</a>]

00:49:52   want to go back . this is all these are two quotes that Apple pull that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2992">TS</a>]

00:49:56   reference them both but this is in it people who have come out and it almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/2996">TS</a>]

00:50:00   to a surprising degree and i'm impressed at some of the people who have come out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3000">TS</a>]

00:50:05   in favor of encryption on this but one of them is former NSA and CIA director [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3005">TS</a>]

00:50:11   Michael Hayden that's Michael hated his quote is Apple are Americans are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3011">TS</a>]

00:50:16   America's more secure America's more safe with unbreakable end and encryption [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3016">TS</a>]

00:50:21   that's that's is let me can't get more clarinet and here's Defense Secretary [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3021">TS</a>]

00:50:26   Ashton Carter so that's it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3026">TS</a>]

00:50:29   crossing the line over to the Department of Defense data security including [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3029">TS</a>]

00:50:33   encryption is absolutely essential to us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3033">TS</a>]

00:50:36   I'm not a believer in back doors that into me that the angle there is that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3036">TS</a>]

00:50:41   gets to that that the bridge mobile thing where y is the Department of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3041">TS</a>]

00:50:49   Justice doing this and it's it it doesn't make any sense from a national [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3049">TS</a>]

00:50:54   security perspective and that I mean at point-blank is what the these other guys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3054">TS</a>]

00:50:57   are saying is that from a national security perspective back doors are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3057">TS</a>]

00:51:01   disaster and so an apple in their brief is saying that the government is saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3061">TS</a>]

00:51:08   you can't take that into consideration and apple in their brief saying I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3068">TS</a>]

00:51:11   know about the legality of the argument of whether the court should take into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3071">TS</a>]

00:51:14   consideration but Apple is certainly emphasizing that angle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3074">TS</a>]

00:51:18   alright let's take a break and we'll talk about the employment issue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3078">TS</a>]

00:51:23   ok I am going to tell you about our good friends at igloo you guys know igloo we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3083">TS</a>]

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00:51:40   you're on a small team or small company or or or something like that so we all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3100">TS</a>]

00:51:44   have our own methods to make things work and we combine you know this sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3104">TS</a>]

00:51:49   chat with this file sharing and other technologies igloo can help you and your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3109">TS</a>]

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00:51:58   only better collaboration should not be painful but the glue is pure and simple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3118">TS</a>]

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00:52:14   in the system you already use but it's not like when you sign up for it blew [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3134">TS</a>]

00:52:17   you have to suddenly drop everything you're already using and do things the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3137">TS</a>]

00:52:22   quote igloo way not like that at all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3142">TS</a>]

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00:52:50   check it out and see how good it could be so my thanks to glue all right let's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3170">TS</a>]

00:52:57   talk about the employment issue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3177">TS</a>]

00:52:58   yeah so we're talking twitter because I had this horrible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3178">TS</a>]

00:53:01   ok so this gets into like Orwell territory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3181">TS</a>]

00:53:04   yeah at all levels like okay Snow Crash have you ever read Neal Stephenson's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3184">TS</a>]

00:53:08   Snow Crash embarrassed to say no at as a programmer you would love it and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3188">TS</a>]

00:53:13   all about hacking the brain but one of the themes in it without getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3193">TS</a>]

00:53:16   spoilers to like a 20 year old book is this notion that a company wanted to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3196">TS</a>]

00:53:21   retain the ownership of programming code in their programmers mind so when they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3201">TS</a>]

00:53:24   left they couldn't use it elsewhere minutes i'm paraphrasing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3204">TS</a>]

00:53:29   had this thought I Rinus Appaloosas this case the court says you compels them to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3209">TS</a>]

00:53:34   write what they're calling you know God GOG government govt TOS i'm picturing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3214">TS</a>]

00:53:39   this meeting tim cook in a room with like 200 people and it's everybody at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3219">TS</a>]

00:53:45   Apple capable of working on the sizes all right you know what's happened [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3225">TS</a>]

00:53:49   the order has been given we are going to but we always know we're gonna try to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3229">TS</a>]

00:53:52   appeal it but right now we have been able to stay we need you to do this and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3232">TS</a>]

00:53:57   we can't order anyone to do it we can we've been ordered [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3237">TS</a>]

00:54:00   but you were all individuals and this needs to happen like what what are those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3240">TS</a>]

00:54:03   people do one of those people do and what does the court do if all 200 of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3243">TS</a>]

00:54:08   them suddenly quit and what is Tim do for those people if they suddenly quit I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3248">TS</a>]

00:54:13   mean I just thinking you can't you can order Apple to do something but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3253">TS</a>]

00:54:17   employees are at well none of the executives can do this they need [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3257">TS</a>]

00:54:21   specific employees in the engineering level what what happens i also wonder [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3261">TS</a>]

00:54:27   just how many engineers at Apple would be capable of doing this now capable you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3267">TS</a>]

00:54:35   can obviously hire somebody new and it provides them with the source code and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3275">TS</a>]

00:54:39   let them study it and study the way the entire system works long enough and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3279">TS</a>]

00:54:44   somebody who's obviously not even employed by apple today could eventually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3284">TS</a>]

00:54:47   become capable of doing it so it's you know it i'm not saying it's impossible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3287">TS</a>]

00:54:53   but I wonder how many people within Apple would be on the team that would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3293">TS</a>]

00:54:58   commissioned to undertake this I don't know that it's 200 i think it's probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3298">TS</a>]

00:55:04   a significantly lower number of people who work in the area of system-level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3304">TS</a>]

00:55:09   device security so is it Daniel gelcoat used to work at a pond years ago he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3309">TS</a>]

00:55:14   apple i think it's he say something response this was like he said there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3314">TS</a>]

00:55:17   might be a hundred people in the world maybe I'm exaggerating number something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3317">TS</a>]

00:55:20   nice to look small but it was is right it's not that other people could get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3320">TS</a>]

00:55:25   something other people can't get up to speed but in order to the then they have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3325">TS</a>]

00:55:30   to hire other people and it's not even issue of morals like I have to wonder [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3330">TS</a>]

00:55:34   what is your career like inside Apple if you're the gallery guy who says she's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3334">TS</a>]

00:55:38   not sure whatever the government wants like you do the government OS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3338">TS</a>]

00:55:43   and it's delivered missed him say thanks for helping us obey the court order and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3343">TS</a>]

00:55:47   you have no future with us could you be fired for complete for being a good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3347">TS</a>]

00:55:51   employee could you put on in Siberia and sent to an Alaskan out posted Apple to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3351">TS</a>]

00:55:57   work on projects there i don't know it's it it's easy to outside you know Ted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3357">TS</a>]

00:56:05   just abstracted somebody with an apple can do it apple has got a lot of money [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3365">TS</a>]

00:56:08   in the last smart people they can do it but at some level it come it will if it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3368">TS</a>]

00:56:12   ever if this came to pass it would come down to individuals and I think they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3372">TS</a>]

00:56:17   have to make a decision and dance for security purposes it would be better to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3377">TS</a>]

00:56:20   have it be as few people as possible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3380">TS</a>]

00:56:23   I've often thought about this i wonder what Apple's security policies are for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3383">TS</a>]

00:56:28   hiring people to work on stuff like this like how do you think about I mean how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3388">TS</a>]

00:56:33   do they make sure that a secret agent for you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3393">TS</a>]

00:56:38   china isn't isn't applying to be an engineer on iOS who would place a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3398">TS</a>]

00:56:44   backdoor I mean it and it sounds like it start thinking it sounds like something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3404">TS</a>]

00:56:49   out of a you know james bond movie or something like that but stuff like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3409">TS</a>]

00:56:51   has happened right there have been back doors placed in remember the openssl 10 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3411">TS</a>]

00:57:00   yeah heartbleed well Hartley was up there edge so many and I you know I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3420">TS</a>]

00:57:04   don't even want to blame China i think that there's a strong suspicion that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3424">TS</a>]

00:57:08   was the US government who served is asleep laced a back door in and like an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3428">TS</a>]

00:57:13   ssl library that was you know we understand there's some purposely what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3433">TS</a>]

00:57:17   seems he purposely we can encryption that is t seem to have some interaction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3437">TS</a>]

00:57:22   within the VPN software libraries [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3442">TS</a>]

00:57:26   no it's not implausible I mean this is a thing like what really drives the world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3446">TS</a>]

00:57:30   is not spy craft in terms of state-run espionage it some industrial espionage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3450">TS</a>]

00:57:35   is a huge thing it's huge happens continuously this is not like a movie [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3455">TS</a>]

00:57:39   thing it's there are people working inside companies constantly selling [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3459">TS</a>]

00:57:43   secrets to competitors and what do you think we need for them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3463">TS</a>]

00:57:46   what do you do when somebody a very talented programmer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3466">TS</a>]

00:57:50   yeah with a security background who without lying about their employee [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3470">TS</a>]

00:57:56   history at all but has spent you know like eight years working for the NSA [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3476">TS</a>]

00:57:59   applies to work on that security had a few laughs but if they're not if they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3479">TS</a>]

00:58:06   being honest it could be a tremendous higher and we did I tell you the story [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3486">TS</a>]

00:58:10   ready i once met guys from the CIA print shop and they said we gave the business [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3490">TS</a>]

00:58:13   cards and they said we have business cards we can't give them to you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3493">TS</a>]

00:58:16   we should you're serious they said yeah we kinda outside the building so like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3496">TS</a>]

00:58:20   how do you get a reference from the NSA for your job at apple do I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3500">TS</a>]

00:58:25   but you know but what you know it i it must occur to them you know and it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3505">TS</a>]

00:58:32   anyway that's we're getting off the point of what happens if everybody who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3512">TS</a>]

00:58:35   works at apple refuses to do this and and I or even isn't this a majority like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3515">TS</a>]

00:58:40   you need I mean I said 200 probably because it's like project managers and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3520">TS</a>]

00:58:43   like those people who have the expertise and there's the people who support those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3523">TS</a>]

00:58:46   people and people i mean who has the key who has the codes that give them access [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3526">TS</a>]

00:58:51   to like the root certificates that are used all this stuff involves a very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3531">TS</a>]

00:58:56   small number of people but what if they all I mean look at you and I were that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3536">TS</a>]

00:59:00   position I think we know we do we quit right quick and then can the government [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3540">TS</a>]

00:59:04   compelling could the government courts say you're not allowed to quit right I I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3544">TS</a>]

00:59:08   can't imagine but could that I don't know the legality and it's even easier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3548">TS</a>]

00:59:12   in today's the current job market in in Silicon Valley know it is you know it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3552">TS</a>]

00:59:19   like I'm being I just want to be out all day that I'm not even trying to say that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3559">TS</a>]

00:59:23   it's an act of nobility it would be I would like to think and and and i would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3563">TS</a>]

00:59:28   like to think that I would act on principle but if you just want to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3568">TS</a>]

00:59:32   down to the cold hard facts of well you know you've got a mortgage to pay and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3572">TS</a>]

00:59:37   kids to put through college or whatever it's like somebody who has extensive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3577">TS</a>]

00:59:40   experience on Apple's security team is not going to have a hard time getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3580">TS</a>]

00:59:44   another job now absolutely not right they probably get like $MONEY [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3584">TS</a>]

00:59:47   million-dollar bonuses that are still being handled handed out when they go to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3587">TS</a>]

00:59:49   work for one of the unicorn right and it might break the heart because maybe they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3589">TS</a>]

00:59:52   prefer to work at Apple but we know rather do good work for Google than do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3592">TS</a>]

00:59:56   destructive work for apple i mean it's it's it it to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3596">TS</a>]

00:59:56   destructive work for apple i mean it's it's it it to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3596">TS</a>]

01:00:00   is not an Outland just said scenario at all and i do think i do think i think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3600">TS</a>]

01:00:06   that people who work in encryption it's like you said that it spans the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3606">TS</a>]

01:00:09   political game and that's one of the things that I really like about this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3609">TS</a>]

01:00:12   that in in what I you know in my sideline as a amateur art Twitter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3612">TS</a>]

01:00:17   political columnist I one of the things that depresses me about the current [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3617">TS</a>]

01:00:23   state of decades long discourse in the United States is the polarization of of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3623">TS</a>]

01:00:28   politics and that so many issues are so clearly polarized and that we've we've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3628">TS</a>]

01:00:33   self sorted on these various lines into the two parties and that there's no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3633">TS</a>]

01:00:40   interchange between III it does my heart it warms my heart that on this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3640">TS</a>]

01:00:45   particular issue it that it doesn't fall on on one line or the other and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3645">TS</a>]

01:00:51   anything because the DOJ is part of the executive branch you have I would have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3651">TS</a>]

01:00:56   to say that you know the Democrats have more responsibility in this case with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3656">TS</a>]

01:01:00   Apple than the Republicans I mean there certainly are Republicans who I've seen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3660">TS</a>]

01:01:04   call for apple should just open the iphone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3664">TS</a>]

01:01:07   oh yeah but you so I'm sure you watch the John Oliver so I guess on with yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3667">TS</a>]

01:01:11   brilliant the Lindsey Graham thing i didn't realize Lindsey Graham had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3671">TS</a>]

01:01:14   recanted his position to watch Lindsey Graham say up I was wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3674">TS</a>]

01:01:17   I've been better informed now you're like coming to Jesus moment he can be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3677">TS</a>]

01:01:21   convinced then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3681">TS</a>]

01:01:23   wow I mean I know he's got the easy side also of you know they want to support [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3683">TS</a>]

01:01:27   law and order which is a basic fundamental GOP stance but he also can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3687">TS</a>]

01:01:32   be opposing the event Obama administration by doing so even with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3692">TS</a>]

01:01:35   that I I was just like oh my god well they they gotta explain it to him and he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3695">TS</a>]

01:01:40   accepted the logical was explained right i think Darrell is a who I generally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3700">TS</a>]

01:01:45   disagree with oh god I was a sweet i retweeted him today on the CC he's so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3705">TS</a>]

01:01:50   right in some places and he's he understand to a certain degree i mean i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3710">TS</a>]

01:01:54   know he had a background in technology before you got into politics but at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3714">TS</a>]

01:01:57   least at the layman's understanding that you would hope that our legislators [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3717">TS</a>]

01:02:02   would have he's got it he is sweet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3722">TS</a>]

01:02:05   he's been really good I here's an interesting just a side note get back to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3725">TS</a>]

01:02:11   1776 this is a musical podcast now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3731">TS</a>]

01:02:13   that's the bit so imagine you're the engineer at apple or set of Engineers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3733">TS</a>]

01:02:17   and you're the people who write the code that's been compelled by the government [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3737">TS</a>]

01:02:21   to essentially the tray humanity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3741">TS</a>]

01:02:24   I mean comes tablets that I'm not even exaggerating the case in 1776 musical it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3744">TS</a>]

01:02:28   draws on there no apparent records that just around came from the Continental [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3748">TS</a>]

01:02:33   Congress because they were worried about being intercepted all kinds of stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3753">TS</a>]

01:02:36   there's 1776 a re-creation from later remembrances of people and other sources [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3756">TS</a>]

01:02:41   there's a judge judge Wilson is from the Pennsylvania delegation so it's you got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3761">TS</a>]

01:02:46   dickinson one side as opposed to waiting for dependency of franklin on the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3766">TS</a>]

01:02:49   is for it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3769">TS</a>]

01:02:50   this is a key vote Wilson who had supported dickinson I sort of moderation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3770">TS</a>]

01:02:55   changes essentially last-minute declares himself its dramatic moment in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3775">TS</a>]

01:03:00   musical but it's also essentially what happened in reality here's the thing he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3780">TS</a>]

01:03:04   didn't want to be this is the motivation given to him he didn't want to be the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3784">TS</a>]

01:03:07   person who killed Liberty he wanted to be kind of you know under-the-radar and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3787">TS</a>]

01:03:12   it's like everyone remember judge Wilson as the person who killed American [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3792">TS</a>]

01:03:17   liberty you know and you think about that the programmers you like maybe 20 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3797">TS</a>]

01:03:21   people or 15 people on the team that do it and you're the people who killed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3801">TS</a>]

01:03:24   encryption for everybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3804">TS</a>]

01:03:27   how do you do that that's a traumatic thing you'll be put through if you have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3807">TS</a>]

01:03:30   that kind of conscience right there's a personal security angle here and apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3810">TS</a>]

01:03:36   has mentioned this in there i think in a brief but if not a brief certainly in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3816">TS</a>]

01:03:41   the one of the supplements you know there's the testimony from craig [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3821">TS</a>]

01:03:46   federighi and and yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3826">TS</a>]

01:03:48   I forget the guys name that has got big long name that starts with an n sorry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3828">TS</a>]

01:03:54   it's a Eric annoying fonder right now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3834">TS</a>]

01:04:00   yeah that's interminably it's a big long-term Germanic name and and but part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3840">TS</a>]

01:04:06   of it is that there's a personal security angle to this where right now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3846">TS</a>]

01:04:11   nobody knows how to create as Apple calls it government OS version of OS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3851">TS</a>]

01:04:17   that you can install on top of an existing iphone without destroying it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3857">TS</a>]

01:04:21   some crazed and then bypass the the protections against the touchpad which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3861">TS</a>]

01:04:28   once you get rid of those protections it's easy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3868">TS</a>]

01:04:31   Amy and and it obviously using a long alphanumeric password or passphrase i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3871">TS</a>]

01:04:38   guess i should say would actually you know would significantly help increase [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3878">TS</a>]

01:04:42   the security of your phone but even the six digit passcode it would take longer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3882">TS</a>]

01:04:48   to brute force but once you bypass the protections you know you're talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3888">TS</a>]

01:04:52   about like days or weeks not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3892">TS</a>]

01:04:55   yeah you know years it there are jailbreaks for the phone zero-day you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3895">TS</a>]

01:05:03   know what are the zero-day exploits there hit that have been sold on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3903">TS</a>]

01:05:06   open market and if there's one that sold for like over a million dollars last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3906">TS</a>]

01:05:10   year like a way to you know that good at security form put out like a bounty and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3910">TS</a>]

01:05:16   said if you can get us into you know a jailbreaker on an iphone that under the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3916">TS</a>]

01:05:24   following conditions like let's say like just by sending the text message or just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3924">TS</a>]

01:05:28   by opening this URL in safari sold for like a million dollars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3928">TS</a>]

01:05:34   can you imagine what the black market value of government OS would be it again [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3934">TS</a>]

01:05:41   it's not just sounds like we're talking about cloak-and-dagger you know James [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3941">TS</a>]

01:05:44   Bond Jason Bourne movie stuff but it's not it's real right did but imagine if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3944">TS</a>]

01:05:51   the identities of the engineers at Apple who knew how to make it and knew how to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3951">TS</a>]

01:05:56   you know knew the details of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3956">TS</a>]

01:06:00   it would put them in some measure of personal risk it really i mean i think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3960">TS</a>]

01:06:05   this right now they must be to imagine if you have some rest secrets i'm sure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3965">TS</a>]

01:06:09   those people already Apple security must already have eyes on them both from the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3969">TS</a>]

01:06:14   perspective and the dangerous side like are these people going off to do stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3974">TS</a>]

01:06:18   you probably watched but also someone trying to kidnap imagine if your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3978">TS</a>]

01:06:21   family's kidnapping you know how to do whatever it's kind of why it you're like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3981">TS</a>]

01:06:25   yeah here's the key [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3985">TS</a>]

01:06:26   I mean and that's just now before government os's is built right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3986">TS</a>]

01:06:30   Apple has made the analogy and I think this you know this comes to you know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3990">TS</a>]

01:06:37   way that the bill of rights to meet you know protects it acts of your conscience [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/3997">TS</a>]

01:06:43   you know I mean that's a big part of what the First Amendment is about Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4003">TS</a>]

01:06:51   has made the analogy to like a bit what it could have pharmaceutical company be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4011">TS</a>]

01:06:56   forced to produce the serum for a lethal injection which is a real word world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4016">TS</a>]

01:07:01   political problem right now we have that is not a political either right where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4021">TS</a>]

01:07:05   the the states in the united states that still have the death penalty because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4025">TS</a>]

01:07:11   it's been banned in the rest of the civilized world and is only you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4031">TS</a>]

01:07:18   it's really only practiced in the first world in the United States and only then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4038">TS</a>]

01:07:21   in certain states the company you know whatever they used to use to to give [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4041">TS</a>]

01:07:26   people the lethal injection there's no more of the serum you're not getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4046">TS</a>]

01:07:30   really know you want me really uncomfortable about their BuzzFeed has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4050">TS</a>]

01:07:34   had some really amazing coverage about this people selling drugs from india and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4054">TS</a>]

01:07:39   so forth fascinating and the state's refusing to disclose information that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4059">TS</a>]

01:07:43   they should be about whether obtaining the drugs from right all right I will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4063">TS</a>]

01:07:46   look that up BuzzFeed's really cool injections right because can you can-can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4066">TS</a>]

01:07:52   estate get you know this is getting off into the weeds on on the death penalty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4072">TS</a>]

01:07:56   but can estate use a substance to put a prisoner to death isn't like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4076">TS</a>]

01:08:02   fda-approved and why wouldn't you know it gets out of the question of wine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4082">TS</a>]

01:08:05   world with the FDA approved a substance that there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4085">TS</a>]

01:08:08   that kills people but well so so good but apples question stands could the all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4088">TS</a>]

01:08:13   writs Act be used for if the kid the government say okay we don't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4093">TS</a>]

01:08:18   anymore this stuff let's go to let's go to Pfizer and compel pfizer to come up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4098">TS</a>]

01:08:24   with a serum that would have the following quote qualities you know that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4104">TS</a>]

01:08:29   it's you know painless and put you to death [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4109">TS</a>]

01:08:33   yeah what this is a think one of the great arguments i think it's very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4113">TS</a>]

01:08:36   directly related to what you're talking about here is Apple trying to show what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4116">TS</a>]

01:08:41   i think is they'd like to say settled law that code is speech and other people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4121">TS</a>]

01:08:46   maybe less secure in that I think it's pretty settled i think the Supreme Court [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4126">TS</a>]

01:08:49   has really made that clear and the FBI and DOJ would like to say that code is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4129">TS</a>]

01:08:54   not speech when it's functional code there's a thing where apples are pretty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4134">TS</a>]

01:08:57   killing the FBI sprays right in the brief there's no such thing as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4137">TS</a>]

01:09:00   functional code all code is the same thing so you cannot can split that it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4140">TS</a>]

01:09:04   unconstitutional to compelled speech that is practically i am pretty sure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4144">TS</a>]

01:09:10   that is an overriding principle i'm not a constitutional lawyer i'm not sure but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4150">TS</a>]

01:09:13   I'm pretty sure I keep reading what you cannot compel speech no court can compel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4153">TS</a>]

01:09:16   speech it can compel you to testify or it can paralyze you for not testifying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4156">TS</a>]

01:09:21   for not providing information but you cannot compel someone to speech and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4161">TS</a>]

01:09:25   cannot compel a programmer to program few of the wise twitter twitter mirrors [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4165">TS</a>]

01:09:29   were saying women it if corporations are people can you compel corporations to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4169">TS</a>]

01:09:34   speech given that they are now we know under citizens united and other girl [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4174">TS</a>]

01:09:37   thinks should have essentially the same right so can you compel Apple to speech [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4177">TS</a>]

01:09:42   of that involves code even that's the thing about this brief is Apple's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4182">TS</a>]

01:09:45   hacking away at many many many different uh no trees with poison fruit and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4185">TS</a>]

01:09:50   think the code of speech was very compelling even if the all writs one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4190">TS</a>]

01:09:53   which is also compelling falls down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4193">TS</a>]

01:09:56   yes i agree on both of those parts that to me that's that's the main thrust of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4196">TS</a>]

01:10:00   apples twofold argument is that they can't be compelled to do this because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4200">TS</a>]

01:10:06   it's speech and it's deeply offensive to to apple and the employees who would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4206">TS</a>]

01:10:10   you know subject to carry it out and that the all writs Act cannot be used to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4210">TS</a>]

01:10:16   compel extraordinary action [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4216">TS</a>]

01:10:18   and to me that's when you read the government thing and if you almost feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4218">TS</a>]

01:10:21   bad for the lawyers who wrote the government's brief because it's I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4221">TS</a>]

01:10:26   think it was their decision to it's not like James Comey had to write the brief [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4226">TS</a>]

01:10:29   it's not like Loretta Lynch the Attorney General wrote the brief it's like it got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4229">TS</a>]

01:10:34   assigned to these you know the two lawyers who wrote it and I almost feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4234">TS</a>]

01:10:39   bad for them because i feel like it's like when you're you know that's what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4239">TS</a>]

01:10:42   it's like to be a lawyer you don't necessarily don't get to pick the side [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4242">TS</a>]

01:10:45   you know I mean like like they might know there they might well know that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4245">TS</a>]

01:10:49   their arguments stands on nothing but thin air but they still gotta write the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4249">TS</a>]

01:10:53   brief there left arguing at the the government is left trying to argue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4253">TS</a>]

01:10:58   because they know that they all writs Act is supposed to fill in the gaps of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4258">TS</a>]

01:11:03   statutory law so they left trying to argue that the use of the already [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4263">TS</a>]

01:11:08   attacked here isn't compelling Apple to do something extraordinary but it's it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4268">TS</a>]

01:11:13   really really hard to do that you know and and adjust of it is that the alright [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4273">TS</a>]

01:11:17   I've you know for people who are you know aren't paying attention that all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4277">TS</a>]

01:11:21   rataxes supposed to fill in the gaps that isn't covered by existing law so if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4281">TS</a>]

01:11:26   there's a law that says this and law that says that but there's a minor issue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4286">TS</a>]

01:11:29   that's in between there the all writs Act fills it in and I think one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4289">TS</a>]

01:11:33   examples the government gave is that somebody can be compelled to give [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4293">TS</a>]

01:11:38   testimony in court like you said mom what if their testimony will take three [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4298">TS</a>]

01:11:44   days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4304">TS</a>]

01:11:45   what where do they go right and so maybe there's no law that says that the all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4305">TS</a>]

01:11:49   writs Act would fill it in and that the government can just do what's reasonable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4309">TS</a>]

01:11:52   and put the guy up in a hotel you know the government will put you up in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4312">TS</a>]

01:11:55   hotel for three days so you still have to testify for the full three days but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4315">TS</a>]

01:11:59   even if there's no law that says that when a you know that says when a witness [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4319">TS</a>]

01:12:03   has to testify for more than one day the government will put them up in a hotel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4323">TS</a>]

01:12:06   it's just that the all writs Act can fill in and and fill in the gap in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4326">TS</a>]

01:12:10   situation like that Apple's argument and I think it's extremely compelling is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4330">TS</a>]

01:12:16   that it if the government wants to compel a company to do what they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4336">TS</a>]

01:12:20   saying they want Apple to do it has to be passed through legislation you have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4340">TS</a>]

01:12:24   to pass a law that says yes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4344">TS</a>]

01:12:26   in this case you would have to do this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4346">TS</a>]

01:12:28   because otherwise you're at you know it because it's an extraordinary thing any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4348">TS</a>]

01:12:33   other analogies I thought about and I want to see what you think about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4353">TS</a>]

01:12:37   but so for example famously I think it's the sixties i might be getting the time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4357">TS</a>]

01:12:42   wrong but when ralph nader wrote the what was the book unsafe at any speed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4362">TS</a>]

01:12:49   yeah about the horrible state of a car crash safety at you know that and wanted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4369">TS</a>]

01:12:59   to legislate that in order to get car companies to mandate that they put seat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4379">TS</a>]

01:13:04   belts in cars and the car industry pushed back against mandatory seatbelts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4384">TS</a>]

01:13:10   under the argument that putting seat belts in cars made cars look unsafe that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4390">TS</a>]

01:13:17   if you got up right now this is true i'm making the river god [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4397">TS</a>]

01:13:21   alright so they said no we don't know this is not a good idea because it you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4401">TS</a>]

01:13:25   know people love driving cars and they feel safe and happy driving cars but if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4405">TS</a>]

01:13:29   you go in there and there's the safety harnesses you know safety belts it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4409">TS</a>]

01:13:33   going to make people think that they're dangerous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4413">TS</a>]

01:13:36   that's not it it sounds silly in hindsight and we have now have a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4416">TS</a>]

01:13:41   statistics that backup that it's you know obviously hasn't stopped Americans [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4421">TS</a>]

01:13:45   from driving and we have statistics to prove that they're you know that safety [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4425">TS</a>]

01:13:48   advances that have been mandated have been tremendous Boone's to to public [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4428">TS</a>]

01:13:51   safety but it's not a ridiculous argument it's not ridiculous that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4431">TS</a>]

01:13:56   that the logic of the car manufacturers it it was probably wrong but that didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4436">TS</a>]

01:14:02   it it didn't happen through the all writs Act it happened throughout you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4442">TS</a>]

01:14:06   know real legislation passed through Congress that man ended things like this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4446">TS</a>]

01:14:11   and that's the way it should be and the other now Jack and think of this isn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4451">TS</a>]

01:14:15   national it's all gone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4455">TS</a>]

01:14:17   local like state by state and city by city but one of the great things of of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4457">TS</a>]

01:14:23   my lifetime as someone who really really has always been bothered by cigarette [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4463">TS</a>]

01:14:27   smoke is the passing of laws that that get cigarettes out of bars and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4467">TS</a>]

01:14:33   restaurants and our workplaces and stuff like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4473">TS</a>]

01:14:35   now it was a common common and rip oft-repeated refrain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4475">TS</a>]

01:14:40   especially from bar owners that if you made smoking illegal and bars it would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4480">TS</a>]

01:14:44   draw it with business would dry up because people who smoked would go to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4484">TS</a>]

01:14:48   private establishments instead of public ones because they're not going to stop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4488">TS</a>]

01:14:52   smoking while they drink and there it did common sense that says that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4492">TS</a>]

01:14:58   argument might hold water right it might there's there's some logic to that I and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4498">TS</a>]

01:15:04   again that it this wasn't done through the all writs Act it was you have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4504">TS</a>]

01:15:09   pass an actual law and fight and make that argument and listen to the people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4509">TS</a>]

01:15:14   the bar owners arguing and now I picked both of those examples the seatbelt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4514">TS</a>]

01:15:18   mandatory seatbelts and the the getting cigarettes out of bars and restaurants i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4518">TS</a>]

01:15:23   pick those specifically because i know that those arguments are on the wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4523">TS</a>]

01:15:27   side right that it's it is my opinion it's correct that seat belts and and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4527">TS</a>]

01:15:34   know other safety devices and chrono stay very high standards for craft [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4534">TS</a>]

01:15:39   survivability are good idea and that I think it's a very good idea for public [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4539">TS</a>]

01:15:43   health that cigarettes are are not our band most restaurants and bars now but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4543">TS</a>]

01:15:49   still think that it was right that they had to pass legislation to do it so in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4549">TS</a>]

01:15:55   this case to me with Apple being on the right side it's even more important that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4555">TS</a>]

01:15:58   if you want to force them to do this terrible thing that you have to fight it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4558">TS</a>]

01:16:02   out in the legislature yeah I think you're absolutely right those are great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4562">TS</a>]

01:16:07   examples and we can also get to like gun control is part of this issue too is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4567">TS</a>]

01:16:12   like what can be done under regulations existing regulations in force and what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4572">TS</a>]

01:16:17   requires lost we passed and whatever side you are about the you know how many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4577">TS</a>]

01:16:22   guns should be out there going to be out there all in private hands whatever the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4582">TS</a>]

01:16:25   side you are i think i would argue i would rather have a legislative solution [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4585">TS</a>]

01:16:28   than a regulatory one even regulatory one might be better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4588">TS</a>]

01:16:33   whether that's for allowing broader gun ownership or narrower ownership because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4593">TS</a>]

01:16:37   without the legislative solution an executive make a decision it doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4597">TS</a>]

01:16:41   lack that consensus so we have the same situation here is like do you want the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4601">TS</a>]

01:16:45   government to use a 240 something year old law with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4605">TS</a>]

01:16:50   extranged logic to upset the future of privacy education protection when the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4610">TS</a>]

01:16:57   clea more recently addressed it or didn't address it in specific ways or do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4617">TS</a>]

01:17:01   you want legislators you know regardless again of who which political parties in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4621">TS</a>]

01:17:05   charge is not actually a political issue in that sense it's a political issue of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4625">TS</a>]

01:17:09   how this would be addressed in a comprehensive way through a process that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4629">TS</a>]

01:17:13   has various you know the three branches of government in the checks and balances [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4633">TS</a>]

01:17:17   I don't really want an executive agency to push through something like this and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4637">TS</a>]

01:17:21   you know I despite having a minute i voted for obama gets twice and but i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4641">TS</a>]

01:17:25   don't really like the extensive use of presidential orders executive orders and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4645">TS</a>]

01:17:29   regulatory moves that he's using I understand why he's doing it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4649">TS</a>]

01:17:33   I don't think there is long-lasting and I don't think they're I mean I know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4653">TS</a>]

01:17:36   where the middle intransigence and you had with gridlock you have to try things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4656">TS</a>]

01:17:40   and it's so forth so I understand whether being done but they wanted the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4660">TS</a>]

01:17:43   lasting effect they want they don't indicate a change of policy where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4663">TS</a>]

01:17:46   something like the Affordable Care Act they were able to actually get that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4666">TS</a>]

01:17:49   passed it became law and you see how implacable it is to resistance and look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4669">TS</a>]

01:17:54   at the supreme court chief justice voting in favor surprising everyone in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4674">TS</a>]

01:18:00   favor of ACA under the Commerce Clause and you know all these decisions that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4680">TS</a>]

01:18:04   have come through where the AC I had a cas had some the you know fall back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4684">TS</a>]

01:18:08   mostly been upheld because it was law as opposed to regulatory interpretation or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4688">TS</a>]

01:18:16   strain regulatory interpretation presidential order so and a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4696">TS</a>]

01:18:19   presidential orders recently have been thrown down by the courts at various [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4699">TS</a>]

01:18:22   levels and and well in some have not been upheld so far I'm you went to gun [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4702">TS</a>]

01:18:26   so i'll i'll go too high no cons like it was very but I think you did I thought I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4706">TS</a>]

01:18:30   hopefully I think we've done so in a way that is amenable to anybody on either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4710">TS</a>]

01:18:34   side issue i'm gonna go to abortion and ruth bader ginsburg Ruth Bader guess the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4714">TS</a>]

01:18:39   game we're playing guns abortion all writs Act Ruth Bader Ginsburg has argued [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4719">TS</a>]

01:18:45   and I think surprising many people long argued and from before she was on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4725">TS</a>]

01:18:50   Supreme Court I think it was a paper she wrote that kind of got her to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4730">TS</a>]

01:18:53   supreme court ruling that this right that that roe v wade was actually a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4733">TS</a>]

01:18:58   setback [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4738">TS</a>]

01:19:00   in the long run for abortion rights because it was a sweeping change by the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4740">TS</a>]

01:19:06   Supreme Court and rather than letting it work its way through the legislative [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4746">TS</a>]

01:19:12   branch which would have given it a lot more that things work out better and are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4752">TS</a>]

01:19:18   more broadly accepted when they go through the legislature then when the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4758">TS</a>]

01:19:23   judiciary passes takes takes matters into its own hands and again not I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4763">TS</a>]

01:19:29   even want to just don't even want to touch on this side of which way it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4769">TS</a>]

01:19:32   should go in a pretty clear my my views on it or no but it doesn't matter though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4772">TS</a>]

01:19:38   I think that the basic argument though that if that roe v wade has remained [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4778">TS</a>]

01:19:42   controversial in a way that a legislative solution which the US was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4782">TS</a>]

01:19:46   probably heading to at the time in the seventies would have had more staying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4786">TS</a>]

01:19:51   power [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4791">TS</a>]

01:19:52   it's almost remarkable to the extent that roe v wade is remains so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4792">TS</a>]

01:19:56   radioactively controversial 40-some years later 40-44 years later that a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4796">TS</a>]

01:20:06   forty-four-year-old supreme court decision is is still considered [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4806">TS</a>]

01:20:09   contentious is it you know shows the the logic of of Ginsburg art Ginsburg's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4809">TS</a>]

01:20:16   argument I I have to agree with that too is right it does not matter what your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4816">TS</a>]

01:20:20   stance on abortion a legislative decision that was made and carried out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4820">TS</a>]

01:20:24   at a national level and then enforced and refined by Supreme Court rulings [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4824">TS</a>]

01:20:29   that narrow door or broaden and on more limited grounds people would be arguing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4829">TS</a>]

01:20:33   about it in it in a different way because they would have felt like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4833">TS</a>]

01:20:37   price you know they would be looking to overturn the law as opposed to trying to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4837">TS</a>]

01:20:41   figure out how to change a constitutional president right and maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4841">TS</a>]

01:20:44   ultimately would become enshrined as a constitutional president you would have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4844">TS</a>]

01:20:46   had you know a row law and the law having passed I think in the seventies I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4846">TS</a>]

01:20:52   think the GOP and Democratic Party the time I think we easily have passed a law [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4852">TS</a>]

01:20:57   that i think i actually think it would have not been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4857">TS</a>]

01:21:02   that difficult to produce consensus then so let's say that happens you gotta roll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4862">TS</a>]

01:21:07   law and then some row based decisions later that refined it that you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4867">TS</a>]

01:21:12   people would still be debating but we still be active but that wouldn't be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4872">TS</a>]

01:21:14   this notion that it could be a just a small tweak in the composition the court [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4874">TS</a>]

01:21:18   would change this for everyone because you would have to get the law of return [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4878">TS</a>]

01:21:22   or you'd have to have a radically different Supreme Court interpretation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4882">TS</a>]

01:21:25   and that's an ongoing issue in accordance with the critiques of Scalia [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4885">TS</a>]

01:21:28   as an original list is that he wasn't as an original list he didn't care about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4888">TS</a>]

01:21:33   President as much as pristine courts did and you can see the liberal and some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4893">TS</a>]

01:21:37   conservative justices going off on rejecting on the fact that decisions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4897">TS</a>]

01:21:42   overturned sometimes relatively recent presidents which is not historically the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4902">TS</a>]

01:21:48   case it's usually long periods of time before presidents are returned by one go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4908">TS</a>]

01:21:51   from one court to another right so yeah I think you're I mean it's so in this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4911">TS</a>]

01:21:55   case let's say it's AI think Congress addressing it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4915">TS</a>]

01:21:58   and interestingly giving Congress has approached this I wouldn't be surprised [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4918">TS</a>]

01:22:01   if Congress could reach consensus maybe not this one but the next one about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4921">TS</a>]

01:22:06   direction it should take that would not be as Extreme as the administration's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4926">TS</a>]

01:22:10   position and would not require this level of action if it did then you might [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4930">TS</a>]

01:22:15   have a constitutional issue if they try to enshrine with the FBI is trying to as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4935">TS</a>]

01:22:20   regulatory action [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4940">TS</a>]

01:22:22   the big difference here like we just mentioned a few minutes ago though is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4942">TS</a>]

01:22:25   that on abortion it's clearly polarized between the two parties admit of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4945">TS</a>]

01:22:31   rovi wait only exacerbated that this issue this issue of encryption it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4951">TS</a>]

01:22:36   splendidly so is crosses the political spectrum and I almost wonder whether if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4956">TS</a>]

01:22:42   if the DOJ wins this case against apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4962">TS</a>]

01:22:46   whether that actually polarizes Congress to pass a law to enshrine the right to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4966">TS</a>]

01:22:58   strong encryption not be interesting left-to-right could join hands around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4978">TS</a>]

01:23:02   the side that's that's always a good that it might but it might be the like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4982">TS</a>]

01:23:06   losing in court might inspire Congress to do that in a way that not having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4986">TS</a>]

01:23:12   picked this fight at all the FBI might have been better off you know from their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4992">TS</a>]

01:23:16   desire wrong had a desire to to to keep these devices as accessible as possible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/4996">TS</a>]

01:23:21   because the other thing to the thing that's cross-platform the other thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5001">TS</a>]

01:23:25   that is definitely cross-platform and it's just common sense but it's easy to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5005">TS</a>]

01:23:28   overlook is that that branches of government that are three branches of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5008">TS</a>]

01:23:36   government you don't take well to the interpretation of their powers by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5016">TS</a>]

01:23:42   another branch so like you said but a president obama has taken and bush did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5022">TS</a>]

01:23:49   too but both of them in the face of opposition in Congress have taken two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5029">TS</a>]

01:23:54   executive orders and Congress whatever the order is regardless of it does not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5034">TS</a>]

01:24:00   take poorly does not take well to that and i think that when when the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5040">TS</a>]

01:24:05   legislature when the when the judicial branch when a judge passes dar makes in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5045">TS</a>]

01:24:10   order that Congress sees as that should be something that we decide it doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5050">TS</a>]

01:24:16   matter what the issue is it it just stiffened their spine is a bristle and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5056">TS</a>]

01:24:20   think rightly so that's sort of the way the system is designed to work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5060">TS</a>]

01:24:24   yeah and yeah it's true I think I mean we can take this to from the legislature [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5064">TS</a>]

01:24:28   to the people right we keep bringing these things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5068">TS</a>]

01:24:30   polls show that you know the support for apple the FBI evenly split and like all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5070">TS</a>]

01:24:34   right let's see what questions you ask the questions are too big i would like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5074">TS</a>]

01:24:38   to see this question asked in a like a be testing so one case you say should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5078">TS</a>]

01:24:41   Apple give the FBI the contents of the phone or whatever the questions are the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5081">TS</a>]

01:24:45   task yes now and our the phrase right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5085">TS</a>]

01:24:47   the other is should the FBI be allowed with legal warrant from a judge to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5087">TS</a>]

01:24:52   access your phone anytime they deem there's a legal necessity for and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5092">TS</a>]

01:24:58   obtain all the contents absolutely in plain text you want some more of that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5098">TS</a>]

01:25:03   think you get a different response if he said he said you know should judge allow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5103">TS</a>]

01:25:07   the FBI to examine the contents your phone anytime [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5107">TS</a>]

01:25:10   well and I got any time but for it goodnight criminal action with a warrant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5110">TS</a>]

01:25:15   it's really hard to pull too because it's because it's easy for a lay person [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5115">TS</a>]

01:25:21   to believe in the magic solution of a way for the F for the government to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5121">TS</a>]

01:25:26   in but nobody else that only the government you know which you kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5126">TS</a>]

01:25:31   have to be to gently informed of the basic way that encryption works to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5131">TS</a>]

01:25:38   understand just how do you know how dangerous and an impossible it is to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5138">TS</a>]

01:25:42   the only people who can get in our the US federal government with the warrant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5142">TS</a>]

01:25:47   it just doesn't work that way once you create you know once you create a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5147">TS</a>]

01:25:50   backdoor I know it's right so there's like you can actually ask any basically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5150">TS</a>]

01:25:55   we're seeing is for this poll we need to get 10,000 people we can give a two-day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5155">TS</a>]

01:25:59   class on cryptography and operating systems too and after that we're going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5159">TS</a>]

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01:26:06   proceed the question with remember like 20 minutes ago 30 minutes ago when i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5166">TS</a>]

01:26:10   read the two quotes from that the the Department of Defense the what he called [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5170">TS</a>]

01:26:18   the who's in charge of the department offense the Secretary of Defense US [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5178">TS</a>]

01:26:24   Secretary sarcastic and the former head of the NSA and CIA and just read those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5184">TS</a>]

01:26:29   two shorts clear statements and then say do you think Apple should be forced to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5189">TS</a>]

01:26:34   comply with this and then see if the poll results change and it's almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5194">TS</a>]

01:26:36   certain it would change to some degree weather it would change dramatically or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5196">TS</a>]

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01:27:25   with most these technical topics or user interface design like you can't and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5245">TS</a>]

01:27:29   every outcome is going to be arbitrary when placed in front of a jury [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5249">TS</a>]

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01:27:42   back at some point you know a while but it's all been within the last month but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5262">TS</a>]

01:27:46   at one point had compared it to the creation of this government os/2 cancer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5266">TS</a>]

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01:27:57   since and a better analogy to me it's close but to me it's a better analogy is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5277">TS</a>]

01:28:00   chemical weapons or biological weapons and I've seen other people make this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5280">TS</a>]

01:28:04   comparison that creation of this is like creating a biological weapon and you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5284">TS</a>]

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01:28:21   the application of it so that it's only applied in this one specific thing I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5301">TS</a>]

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01:28:32   of of biological weapons getting out of your control is to never create them in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5312">TS</a>]

01:28:36   the first place and that to me is where the cancer analogy falls down is it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5316">TS</a>]

01:28:39   nobody's created cancer cancer is not know I but i think it really matters [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5319">TS</a>]

01:28:44   no no I think I think your true it's not an intent it's a byproduct of biological [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5324">TS</a>]

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01:28:59   they realize that it's not it's not it it's not a good enough analogy right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5339">TS</a>]

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01:32:03   right well what is with the driver in greater harder right Eric few years it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5523">TS</a>]

01:32:09   not like it at once like it's great cars with every couple years he gets his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5529">TS</a>]

01:32:13   story for those of you know the story i'm paraphrasing I got put in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5533">TS</a>]

01:32:17   showings it's such a funny story that's so telling as to Donald Trump's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5537">TS</a>]

01:32:20   personality but the story is i think i might even predated the Vanity Fair was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5540">TS</a>]

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01:32:35   was the editor at the late beloved Spy magazine which was just fantastic wrote [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5555">TS</a>]

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01:32:45   small handed Vulgarian small small small finger small things involving heard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5565">TS</a>]

01:32:52   anything like that and in the decade sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5572">TS</a>]

01:32:56   Graydon Carter since you said recently that every you know once a year maybe a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5576">TS</a>]

01:33:01   2 years ago by but then it gets another one every couple every couple of years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5581">TS</a>]

01:33:04   he gets a letter from Trump with like a picture from a magazine pulled out and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5584">TS</a>]

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01:33:36   members destroying the ability for the FCC to enforce election law [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5616">TS</a>]

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01:33:51   Monday obviously can't do anything they act against this guy requiring the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5631">TS</a>]

01:33:56   changes Trump has tiny hands back so he's changed his name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5636">TS</a>]

01:33:59   it's now the Americans against insecure billionaires with tiny hands and this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5639">TS</a>]

01:34:04   political action [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5644">TS</a>]

01:34:05   oh my god that could do that Trump famously was a however however large or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5645">TS</a>]

01:34:16   small his hands are a few years ago remember he tweeted something to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5656">TS</a>]

01:34:22   effect of that this is before the iphone 6 came out that Apple needs to put out a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5662">TS</a>]

01:34:26   big iphone you know get with the times or sometimes that's funny yeah so trunk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5666">TS</a>]

01:34:31   from however small his hands are is a fan of large phones through increased my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5671">TS</a>]

01:34:37   wife like small phones and when I used for she's an iphone 5 that is failing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5677">TS</a>]

01:34:40   and when i use it when she hands it to me and she makes type large as a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5680">TS</a>]

01:34:44   vision issues so she makes type large and i use it and i feel like i'm using a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5684">TS</a>]

01:34:47   fairy phone and like little tiny fairies use this phone is so I'm like how many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5687">TS</a>]

01:34:51   years that i use a phone that was that size or smaller and it seemed fine i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5691">TS</a>]

01:34:55   have an iphone 6s and now the iphone 5 size 5 exercise seems ridiculous but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5695">TS</a>]

01:35:00   she's waiting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5700">TS</a>]

01:35:01   her phone is failing if the SE ships are it is announced on monday as expected [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5701">TS</a>]

01:35:05   then she's a customer i will Charles the customer i would argue that in its [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5705">TS</a>]

01:35:10   certain sense i don't know what the volume is but in a in a hand feel sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5710">TS</a>]

01:35:14   i would argue that the iphone 5 and 5s are the smallest iphone their apple ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5714">TS</a>]

01:35:17   made and I know that the screen got big hole it went from three and a half four [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5717">TS</a>]

01:35:21   but it's so much thinner that to me it feels smaller and I i have my little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5721">TS</a>]

01:35:27   Museum here bored I iphones uh-huh that do because of the thinnest it feels [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5727">TS</a>]

01:35:32   smaller in the hand that it feels like the smallest iphone the every that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5732">TS</a>]

01:35:36   is probably at your right by volume and like screen edge dimensions yes maybe by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5736">TS</a>]

01:35:41   volume it's not because of the extra length of to accommodate the foreign [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5741">TS</a>]

01:35:46   screen as opposed to 3.5 but because you hold it sideways typically you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5746">TS</a>]

01:35:51   really hold it and end [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5751">TS</a>]

01:35:53   that the volume that matters is sort of like the you know like the bottom half [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5753">TS</a>]

01:35:58   of the phone that's true or like the bottom you know 23 inches is the really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5758">TS</a>]

01:36:03   the volume that matters in that the whatever sticks up off the top doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5763">TS</a>]

01:36:07   really count [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5767">TS</a>]

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01:36:11   very reliably so that's a real thing and it's it's fun to watch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5771">TS</a>]

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01:36:19   came with the ipad mini something came out where someone built this likes this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5779">TS</a>]

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01:36:55   if it was 9to5 mac or macrumors probably 9to5 mac but they had like a CAD [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5815">TS</a>]

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01:37:11   a part that says here's the you know here's the casing for the iphone SE and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5831">TS</a>]

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01:37:19   they can do the events a and you can order this for shipping on may first and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5839">TS</a>]

01:37:23   only available day and date her to believe government variety right yeah I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5843">TS</a>]

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01:37:41   they're shipping on friday i don't i'm not quite sure how how I write a review [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5861">TS</a>]

01:37:44   before it actually ships [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5864">TS</a>]

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01:38:02   I think I'm gonna like it I think I'm going to I don't know that i'll switch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5882">TS</a>]

01:38:06   from the forest seven but i might be very tempted to I'd I it's it's gonna be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5886">TS</a>]

01:38:12   a close call for me I i love that there i mean if this happens it seems so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5892">TS</a>]

01:38:16   likely i love that they're doing it because that we talked to talk to some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5896">TS</a>]

01:38:20   other folks about the notion that we're going to post numbering that maybe this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5900">TS</a>]

01:38:25   is or maybe this model never gets number i think you bring about the ask you is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5905">TS</a>]

01:38:29   that like was some point but you know the ipad 3 was that called the ipad 2 in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5909">TS</a>]

01:38:34   the ipad 3 then it became the ipad and numbers are bad for Apple except they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5914">TS</a>]

01:38:39   trying to create demand like a poll of demand for the newer thing and I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5919">TS</a>]

01:38:43   sales figures and growth make sure that they just need to be shipping out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5923">TS</a>]

01:38:47   devices maybe not getting the expectation that it's every September in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5927">TS</a>]

01:38:52   the same way and the new plans I mean the thing is with a lot of people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5932">TS</a>]

01:38:56   shipping to shifting to installment plans that allow an upgrade after either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5936">TS</a>]

01:38:58   12 or 18 months i think we're going to see seems like the majority of people in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5938">TS</a>]

01:39:03   the US will wind up on a plan with either 12 or 18 months refresh and some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5943">TS</a>]

01:39:06   with like a you know 20 or 24 month where they don't pay me extra for that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5946">TS</a>]

01:39:11   that's going to flood the market with older phones in some fashion will be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5951">TS</a>]

01:39:15   resold or there'll be no refurbished right and available and then you have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5955">TS</a>]

01:39:21   all these people like I mean hey look i'm not an installment plan by getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5961">TS</a>]

01:39:24   an iphone 7 or whatever it's called probably because I feel like that's my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5964">TS</a>]

01:39:27   Apple fee is now I'm paying know what is 56 bucks a month i'll just be that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5967">TS</a>]

01:39:31   forever for my phone and I'll just always have the freshest phone like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5971">TS</a>]

01:39:35   does not seem like a penalty to me the way their marketing it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5975">TS</a>]

01:39:39   yeah to me I think it'll probably personally come down to image quality [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5979">TS</a>]

01:39:44   I think that cool or you know for the camera that if you want your 12 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5984">TS</a>]

01:39:49   megapixel one well I don't care about the megapixel ok I'm sorry but like I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5989">TS</a>]

01:39:52   had her right eye care the field I want to the field [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5992">TS</a>]

01:39:55   well you're not going to get that in this camp you know I know it's not going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5995">TS</a>]

01:39:59   to move [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5999">TS</a>]

01:39:59   it's not going to move that forward but if to me it looks like i can take the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/5999">TS</a>]

01:40:03   same quality pictures in the same lighting conditions as my my phone 600 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6003">TS</a>]

01:40:08   Morrissey yes more or less that it you know at least to my eyes it looks like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6008">TS</a>]

01:40:13   i'm getting the same image quality I think I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6013">TS</a>]

01:40:15   for the smaller phone i like the way it feels in my hand I like the way it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6015">TS</a>]

01:40:20   smaller in my pocket and I to be honest the majority of what I read on the phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6020">TS</a>]

01:40:29   is Twitter and tweets because they're so small it doesn't matter that i can see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6029">TS</a>]

01:40:35   more of them at a time on a larger screen who and I you know I I read I to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6035">TS</a>]

01:40:41   read a lot of articles on mobile safari but I don't I never mind it that much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6041">TS</a>]

01:40:45   you know like to me both screens aren't small and constrained for reading [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6045">TS</a>]

01:40:49   articles and they just reflow them with the in a reader view or something like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6049">TS</a>]

01:40:54   that so who the big screen to me isn't all that appealing i see you know it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6054">TS</a>]

01:40:59   certainly a trade-off but it turns of the smaller device sized i don't know i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6059">TS</a>]

01:41:03   think i'm on the fence me and malts yeah I like time in the smaller phone i mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6063">TS</a>]

01:41:07   this comes back to apparently were both guys so there's an issue there which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6067">TS</a>]

01:41:11   that we don't have the tiny unusable pockets or no pockets that a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6071">TS</a>]

01:41:14   women have their clothing my friend erin mckean who's that word Nick the head of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6074">TS</a>]

01:41:18   that great site thats collecting like open source of definitions of words a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6078">TS</a>]

01:41:23   non-profit project she likes micro dresses makes wonderful stuff what about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6083">TS</a>]

01:41:27   it for the magazine years ago and she puts pockets and stuff it's just people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6087">TS</a>]

01:41:31   stopping all the time where you have pockets in your clothing other happens [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6091">TS</a>]

01:41:34   like I've made the dress that's those pockets of it was encountered this all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6094">TS</a>]

01:41:38   the time in my wife wears you know stylish but not like um like fashion of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6098">TS</a>]

01:41:42   certainly stylish unusable clothing and got to think like that was the thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6102">TS</a>]

01:41:46   with the iphone 6 or if I'm gonna have six plus when it came out I thought I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6106">TS</a>]

01:41:51   don't want to phone that big but i'm not going to prejudge it because Apple knows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6111">TS</a>]

01:41:54   the market better and i am like one tiny segment now of the mark I don't want a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6114">TS</a>]

01:41:57   gold phone I don't want to go watch I want whatever I and a lot of women i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6117">TS</a>]

01:42:02   know i liked the six plus because they already keeping a phone in their purse [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6122">TS</a>]

01:42:05   and this was like this is great i can read it and it doubles as a kindle it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6125">TS</a>]

01:42:10   serves many purposes and a lot of women and some men i know but i would say more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6130">TS</a>]

01:42:14   of the women I know got it then man although several men we know like my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6134">TS</a>]

01:42:17   curly and support the big fans of it i feel like the BSE is definitely ties [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6137">TS</a>]

01:42:21   more into that like the small pocket thing or small like not having a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6141">TS</a>]

01:42:25   rumors stuff to carry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6145">TS</a>]

01:42:27   it's going to be for an audience that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6147">TS</a>]

01:42:29   has been underserved the 5s Phil back app I'm so I'm excited to go out for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6149">TS</a>]

01:42:34   this event because I so don't know I'm what I have a good guess what they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6154">TS</a>]

01:42:38   going to show ya but i have no idea how they're going to sell it to us which to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6158">TS</a>]

01:42:43   me is interesting because there's two main things that they've got to get the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6163">TS</a>]

01:42:46   smaller phone and they got the than the new iPad pro that's only nine point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6166">TS</a>]

01:42:52   seven inches which is effectively just a smaller ipad pro so how do they stay how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6172">TS</a>]

01:42:56   do they get onstage and sell two devices that are it's exactly like the thing we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6176">TS</a>]

01:43:00   announced in September between right that neither of them are going to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6180">TS</a>]

01:43:05   anything better than the ones that are already on the market [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6185">TS</a>]

01:43:09   I wonderful talk about as a family of devices we know people have different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6189">TS</a>]

01:43:12   needs and different bands and the 5s has been a stunning woman to the 5s never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6192">TS</a>]

01:43:15   talk backwards right like we you know we fill this category in the past and now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6195">TS</a>]

01:43:19   we felt we could do something unique and new and this is what we're doing to fill [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6199">TS</a>]

01:43:24   out our product line to fit a family of needs write something like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6204">TS</a>]

01:43:28   i I don't know and they have to say something new that there's always a new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6208">TS</a>]

01:43:31   thing this is the reason why we waited till now to do this what is it we don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6211">TS</a>]

01:43:35   i don't know yeah I don't know how it's just like the less than with smaller how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6215">TS</a>]

01:43:38   they get something new out of it I there must be but I is that I'd like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6218">TS</a>]

01:43:42   canopy is last thing but smaller think different right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6222">TS</a>]

01:43:46   do you think there's a question I that I keep me in and asked us on Twitter but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6226">TS</a>]

01:43:50   i'll ask you do you think they will come out with the smart battery pack for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6230">TS</a>]

01:43:58   iphone SE that's a great question i just i was working for wire cutter for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6238">TS</a>]

01:44:03   while I work on this USB battery guy . the battery into the battery pack that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6243">TS</a>]

01:44:07   was that damn freaks old friend dentrix working the battery pack up from that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6247">TS</a>]

01:44:12   came out but looking at a lot of batteries that are out there and what's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6252">TS</a>]

01:44:16   capable and what the capacity of this thing will likely be I have a hard time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6256">TS</a>]

01:44:22   believing it because i think the whole idea this was going to be that sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6262">TS</a>]

01:44:26   like a very specific form right so if you come out with it and a battery pack [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6266">TS</a>]

01:44:31   you're underselling what this phone is about because they are so much more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6271">TS</a>]

01:44:36   efficient with power than what the f of the 5s [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6276">TS</a>]

01:44:39   i would bet they could eat thirty or forty percent more power out of the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6279">TS</a>]

01:44:44   form factor than they can of the fs with a similar as using the same battery [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6284">TS</a>]

01:44:49   capacity and so ostensibly allowed a slightly bigger battery because they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6289">TS</a>]

01:44:53   better at that or slightly denser perhaps and everything will be so much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6293">TS</a>]

01:44:57   more efficient and because the screen is so much smaller by area and by pixel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6297">TS</a>]

01:45:02   count it written at risk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6302">TS</a>]

01:45:03   well but they perfected that really hard to believe that they would want I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6303">TS</a>]

01:45:08   what you want to strike I understand the 6s it makes a lot of sense because it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6308">TS</a>]

01:45:13   kind of in the middle there and people i mean USB battery packs of all kinds not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6313">TS</a>]

01:45:17   just the ones that I I think cases have told so well I think if they do it will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6317">TS</a>]

01:45:22   roll out on the same schedule that the battery pack for the success did which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6322">TS</a>]

01:45:27   is you know six weeks after the phone comes out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6327">TS</a>]

01:45:30   don't steal the thunder yeah stress and here's something hey and don't don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6330">TS</a>]

01:45:34   risk the the pr backlash of apple releases a phone that needs an external [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6334">TS</a>]

01:45:39   battery pack [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6339">TS</a>]

01:45:40   yeah right i mean they got that anyway when they released their own battery [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6340">TS</a>]

01:45:43   pack but at at by the time november $YEAR rolled around it was a lot quieter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6343">TS</a>]

01:45:47   than if they had done it on stage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6347">TS</a>]

01:45:49   can I talk batteries for a second because i can't tell you how many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6349">TS</a>]

01:45:51   batteries are tested and I did this thing at the wire cutter I would have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6351">TS</a>]

01:45:55   USB battery pack guy with that great writer their mark on super notice who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6355">TS</a>]

01:45:59   did a fantastic job use the battery testing lab Kate except in vancouver bc [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6359">TS</a>]

01:46:03   is fascinating and then I did a bunch of reviews for macworld just a few weeks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6363">TS</a>]

01:46:08   ago of us bc equipped batteries and oh my god if you haven't touched the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6368">TS</a>]

01:46:13   battery like us be better if you like a few years ago were like these are sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6373">TS</a>]

01:46:17   of terrible expensive they don't last long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6377">TS</a>]

01:46:19   the next generation is out and like across all these different manufacturers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6379">TS</a>]

01:46:23   and you can get you can charge the one that I like best in the macro roundup [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6383">TS</a>]

01:46:28   was the anchor has a 20,000 100 milliampere our battery with us bc and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6388">TS</a>]

01:46:34   USA ear anybody 20,000 20,000 cost fifty bucks so if i can charge your macbook [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6394">TS</a>]

01:46:40   about a hundred and ten percent from it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6400">TS</a>]

01:46:43   why 12-inch MacBook wow that's that I know what I was like you know it's kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6403">TS</a>]

01:46:47   of watching batteries a little ahead and get into it and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6407">TS</a>]

01:46:49   circuitry is so much better they hold a charge for the new like the new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6409">TS</a>]

01:46:52   lithium-ion cells are being used hold a charge better they're so much better at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6412">TS</a>]

01:46:57   conversion they don't heat up as much it's really extraordinary so if you've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6417">TS</a>]

01:47:02   been holding back on a USB sound like an ad for the images that it is complicated [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6422">TS</a>]

01:47:06   though I actually looked into it a couple weeks ago and i was going to do a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6426">TS</a>]

01:47:09   wire cutter style thing where i actually bought like three or four just for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6429">TS</a>]

01:47:13   phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6433">TS</a>]

01:47:14   it was right after I did the battery case review and I thought you know what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6434">TS</a>]

01:47:17   I should review these little portable things because I've long had one it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6437">TS</a>]

01:47:21   couple and you're too old a mophie that has like most of my problem movie is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6441">TS</a>]

01:47:27   movie alone has too many they have too many they also charge for x we need to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6447">TS</a>]

01:47:32   pay anywhere cuz it makes it so hard to figure out what to buy just got anybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6452">TS</a>]

01:47:36   at murphy who listens to the show please for the love of God just get rid of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6456">TS</a>]

01:47:39   three quarters of your product lineup and just keep you know just tell me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6459">TS</a>]

01:47:43   what's the best one again because they have like different even just form [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6463">TS</a>]

01:47:46   factors of them but anyway they've got one that I really like that has built in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6466">TS</a>]

01:47:49   a built-in USB cable and built not like yeah and it does pass through charging [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6469">TS</a>]

01:47:56   does it do is it that pastor is interesting which is it too so it's got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6476">TS</a>]

01:48:00   a type a connector you can plug into a a DC adapter yeah like yeah like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6480">TS</a>]

01:48:05   standard not you later doesn't have lightning the right now it doesn't like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6485">TS</a>]

01:48:09   me as a bit so does lightning and type in OC that's great and you can get that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6489">TS</a>]

01:48:12   there's a Travelcard if you want a really tiny one has a lightning and type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6492">TS</a>]

01:48:17   a thing with what's taking taipei means you plug it into the charger right yet i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6497">TS</a>]

01:48:22   pay is like the wreck the stator rectangular one and that's what you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6502">TS</a>]

01:48:25   mostly see that's the computer side more exciting to us bc or type is what you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6505">TS</a>]

01:48:30   going to see on computers and all the AC adapters are taipei those rectangular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6510">TS</a>]

01:48:34   plugs but travel card is really is really neat because it has the integral [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6514">TS</a>]

01:48:38   lightning mfa mfi approved or licensed certified whatever and and the one so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6518">TS</a>]

01:48:44   you only you don't carry any extra cable travelpod I think it's like 40 bucks so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6524">TS</a>]

01:48:48   it's expensive or 35 and it only charge your phone like I like two-thirds the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6528">TS</a>]

01:48:53   way or something but I like iphone 6 but if that's what you need if you're like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6533">TS</a>]

01:48:56   the question thing we did the wire cutters we divided it up into you need [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6536">TS</a>]

01:49:00   it to top off at your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6540">TS</a>]

01:49:01   full day at work our way and you get through the night or the end of an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6541">TS</a>]

01:49:04   evening or do you want to be able to charge like for another full day of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6544">TS</a>]

01:49:08   usage or on the road on the road for like a week and you've got an ipad so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6548">TS</a>]

01:49:12   you can get things are now a differentiation you get anything from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6552">TS</a>]

01:49:15   like Oh amazon amazon basics it doesn't have a lightning cable but it will take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6555">TS</a>]

01:49:20   a regular plug you can plug your cable into it your regular right at ya [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6560">TS</a>]

01:49:25   adapter two thousand milliampere our battery from amazon it will charge your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6565">TS</a>]

01:49:29   phone i think the resulting charges at least half or two-thirds it's five or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6569">TS</a>]

01:49:34   six bucks an amazon basics add-on so you can go all the way from that up to like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6574">TS</a>]

01:49:38   25,000 milliampere our grab power and some others that will charge an ipad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6578">TS</a>]

01:49:43   like six times or something that's really it's really interesting to think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6583">TS</a>]

01:49:46   about I mean I've always use them in the context of charging the phone but it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6586">TS</a>]

01:49:49   interesting to think about charging like a macbook that way within getting like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6589">TS</a>]

01:49:53   you know like a hundred you said 110% charge out of ya the rancor ism the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6593">TS</a>]

01:49:58   anchors raising anchors a fascinating companies like Google engineer and his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6598">TS</a>]

01:50:01   wife started this up and she started the business I think and then he eventually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6601">TS</a>]

01:50:04   quit google they moved back to China think they're from China richly move [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6604">TS</a>]

01:50:08   back there are things we said and now they're shipping like a hundred thousand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6608">TS</a>]

01:50:12   items a month or something like they came from over there quite love anchor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6612">TS</a>]

01:50:16   quality it's like it's really great that whole lineup of stuff i and and they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6616">TS</a>]

01:50:22   making their kind of pushing it so that what what happened really is that a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6622">TS</a>]

01:50:25   of companies panasonic LG and a bunch of other firms started to make really good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6625">TS</a>]

01:50:29   standardized you know essentially lithium-ion cells they their varying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6629">TS</a>]

01:50:33   size their cylinders like a double a battery but could be bigger or smaller [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6633">TS</a>]

01:50:36   and the standardized components mean that nobody in the chain has to build [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6636">TS</a>]

01:50:40   that part and they're all such high quality or bladder very high-quality now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6640">TS</a>]

01:50:44   that it's so affordable they can stick 3 or 6 or 8 into a thing with you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6644">TS</a>]

01:50:50   some circuitry to handle charging and USB conversion and get you know it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6650">TS</a>]

01:50:54   really all that like packaging engineering of taking this commodity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6654">TS</a>]

01:50:57   item and making it something better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6657">TS</a>]

01:50:59   it's cool it's the new fiscal future I the gist of my experimentation with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6659">TS</a>]

01:51:05   these movie ones i bought two with other ones that don't have built-in cables and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6665">TS</a>]

01:51:09   you instead of to supply your own lightning cable to charge your phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6669">TS</a>]

01:51:12   from it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6672">TS</a>]

01:51:13   but the the other ones are more like almost like a basically like iphone size [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6673">TS</a>]

01:51:17   batteries there you know yeah there in like an iphone and a varying sizes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6677">TS</a>]

01:51:23   depending on their capacity but you have to supply your own cable the thing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6683">TS</a>]

01:51:26   really makes them work well for me is when you buy like from amazon basics or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6686">TS</a>]

01:51:31   i actually bought a couple from i forget the name of the company was named a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6691">TS</a>]

01:51:36   company by real cheap cables at a lot of price [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6696">TS</a>]

01:51:38   monoprice so I want rise tomorrow sorry i bought it but about a bunch of these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6698">TS</a>]

01:51:43   little like three inch lightning cables which in a lot of context make no sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6703">TS</a>]

01:51:48   at all but like for just putting a battery in your pocket while it charges [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6708">TS</a>]

01:51:51   the phone it's absolutely perfect because then you don't have like dog to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6711">TS</a>]

01:51:55   me before i bought one of these little cables to go with it the whole the whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6715">TS</a>]

01:51:59   thing that was such a pain and looked ridiculous is what do you do with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6719">TS</a>]

01:52:02   three foot cable when you're charging it in a device that's in your pocket [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6722">TS</a>]

01:52:07   these little like two or three inch lightning cables are perfect for that so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6727">TS</a>]

01:52:10   and to me it's a better solution than the Apple battery pack or any battery [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6730">TS</a>]

01:52:15   pack for that matter because unless you really want to use the battery pack [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6735">TS</a>]

01:52:18   every single day at winter we're at which point I really question whether [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6738">TS</a>]

01:52:22   you shouldn't just get the iphone plus size if if that you know if you really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6742">TS</a>]

01:52:27   want it all the time every day why don't you just buy the iphone plus well this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6747">TS</a>]

01:52:32   is the thing that's interesting to having gone through all this battery [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6752">TS</a>]

01:52:34   stuff is USB is a huge bottleneck and so including lightning there's only a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6754">TS</a>]

01:52:39   maximum amount of power you can push into an iphone or ipod ipad battery or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6759">TS</a>]

01:52:45   even recharges i'm testing 20,000 milliampere our batteries it takes hours [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6765">TS</a>]

01:52:50   to train these things I got this thing I had to order from Japan this beautiful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6770">TS</a>]

01:52:53   little device cannot get in America that's a low generator it did that pulls [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6773">TS</a>]

01:52:57   two amps of load up to like 3i think off a USB port and dissipated as heat so i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6777">TS</a>]

01:53:02   could drain the damn thing so i can test to see how fast they charge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6782">TS</a>]

01:53:06   there's a new quick charge two and three of these standards from Qualcomm that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6786">TS</a>]

01:53:10   are being built into android phones some other phones back in charge of higher [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6790">TS</a>]

01:53:14   voltages so they can they charged in a relatively low amperage high voltage and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6794">TS</a>]

01:53:18   they can recharge battery like two or three times faster than at USB voltages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6798">TS</a>]

01:53:22   even at high temperatures so USB [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6802">TS</a>]

01:53:25   c is interesting because USBC boosts the overall like wattage you can put into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6805">TS</a>]

01:53:31   something so if an ipad pro would actually really good with us bc because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6811">TS</a>]

01:53:36   it could safely charge this battery like four or five times faster than the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6816">TS</a>]

01:53:40   limits that USB put science-y you mean ipad pro I'd love to talk to some people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6820">TS</a>]

01:53:44   that that what if what if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6824">TS</a>]

01:53:46   well it's george time is lightning definitely put a limiting factor what if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6826">TS</a>]

01:53:50   the lightning cable started with us bc to get the power and then was lightning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6830">TS</a>]

01:53:54   into the device that's a good question i believe that lightning has a wattage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6834">TS</a>]

01:53:59   limits that is below what you can do with us bc by a large factor so man of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6839">TS</a>]

01:54:06   course I don't know what the limit is i think it's i think it's only 15 watts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6846">TS</a>]

01:54:10   you can put over lightning and you can do you know the macbook charges that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6850">TS</a>]

01:54:14   well as a 29 wat charger and USB see could have 200 watts on a cable you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6854">TS</a>]

01:54:20   to do that with an ipad pro but even like a 3829 water 31 charger for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6860">TS</a>]

01:54:24   ipad pro I think would at legacy least double or maybe even be sixty-seven [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6864">TS</a>]

01:54:30   percent more than you can do with lightnings limits one of the basic rules [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6870">TS</a>]

01:54:33   of computer technology in general is that anything that slowed will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6873">TS</a>]

01:54:37   eventually be faster right it's terrible i get it and you just accept it like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6877">TS</a>]

01:54:43   just we used to just accept that it took a 90 seconds to copy a 1.4 megabyte [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6883">TS</a>]

01:54:47   floppy disk we just accepted that and because what are you gonna do you wait [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6887">TS</a>]

01:54:51   and now do you know the idea that you'd wait the long . noticeable . of time to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6891">TS</a>]

01:54:58   copy one megabyte of data it's laughable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6898">TS</a>]

01:55:02   so what slow today charging e listening to you talk about this charging is slow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6902">TS</a>]

01:55:07   and it's like you know if you just you know get AG you know we develop habits [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6907">TS</a>]

01:55:11   to avoid having to worry about it charging overnight charging while we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6911">TS</a>]

01:55:15   out your desk but like you know like my son is not good with remembering to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6915">TS</a>]

01:55:20   it and it's like you're going on a road trip in its it are you heading to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6920">TS</a>]

01:55:23   airport and it's phone is already in the red it's like a guy would you thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6923">TS</a>]

01:55:26   you know but it's and that's when you really notice boy it phone does not take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6926">TS</a>]

01:55:31   a charge very quickly when you're in re no that's a big I think that's a big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6931">TS</a>]

01:55:35   thing and that's why I mean Qualcomm this is where they're trying to innovate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6935">TS</a>]

01:55:37   on the opposite side and I'm sure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6937">TS</a>]

01:55:39   your love Apple to adopt this and apples not gonna adopt quick charge I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6939">TS</a>]

01:55:43   think that's doesn't it sound like a lightning based thing right but I've got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6943">TS</a>]

01:55:46   a couple quick charge three chargers he had a car they can't afford to be left [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6946">TS</a>]

01:55:50   behind now you know I mean lady that one sec though they can do this bc and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6950">TS</a>]

01:55:55   don't have to be quick charging can push more amperage are my thing is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6955">TS</a>]

01:55:58   combination average and wattage through i wonder if I wonder if they could do a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6958">TS</a>]

01:56:01   lightning to that would increase the amperage but would be a physically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6961">TS</a>]

01:56:07   compatible I I think USBC is the direction and I'm i'm just wondering if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6967">TS</a>]

01:56:13   lightning I mean I know this has been about we talk about this since $YEAR [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6973">TS</a>]

01:56:16   USBC became a thing that Apple wanted to do is like it's really tricky to put a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6976">TS</a>]

01:56:21   USB it's only slightly larger than lightning but it's tricky to put it in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6981">TS</a>]

01:56:24   my phone but I think it's probably the right approach i don't i don't think to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6984">TS</a>]

01:56:28   apples never going to put us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6988">TS</a>]

01:56:29   you don't think I know I know them i wonder if they would add this is they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6989">TS</a>]

01:56:32   are never going to add a second part of an ipad right but they should have the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6992">TS</a>]

01:56:35   USBC port on ipad pro it's not gonna happen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6995">TS</a>]

01:56:37   I think lightning is becoming an adequate to the task and I think that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/6997">TS</a>]

01:56:42   they're gonna have to cope with that eventually yeah wonder i wonder how much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7002">TS</a>]

01:56:45   of this they've foresaw and how much now they're like me paint ourselves into . [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7005">TS</a>]

01:56:49   yeah you're totally right so they could have no lightning too could actually be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7009">TS</a>]

01:56:53   lightning too could have us bc i'm one and enlightening to on the other and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7013">TS</a>]

01:56:57   same cable thing and it's backwards compatible but if you've got lightning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7017">TS</a>]

01:57:01   to circuitry and a lightning to cable you get to charge you totally that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7021">TS</a>]

01:57:05   totally feasible i forget that so that that could be where they're going and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7025">TS</a>]

01:57:08   then going to take advantage of the USBC infrastructure for having chargers other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7028">TS</a>]

01:57:12   star and they're really push it that way but yeah I mean you know you don't want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7032">TS</a>]

01:57:15   to take like seven hours to recharge and ipad pro battery that doesn't make sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7035">TS</a>]

01:57:19   right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7039">TS</a>]

01:57:20   you want to take like three or two is that it's the thing but on the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7040">TS</a>]

01:57:26   hand you know this anchor this was talking about that I like it's always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7046">TS</a>]

01:57:29   like a pound or something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7049">TS</a>]

01:57:31   it's a pound 20 amp hours and fifty bucks so you're sort of like I will if I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7051">TS</a>]

01:57:37   need to carry something extra I get one of these things and then sort of set and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7057">TS</a>]

01:57:42   anyway it's such a bit so it's such a like walkie little area but it battery [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7062">TS</a>]

01:57:46   life is the thing that affects us more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7066">TS</a>]

01:57:48   I mean you know network speed has been solved but you get LTE [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7068">TS</a>]

01:57:51   in most places pretty good and so battery is the next frontier to kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7071">TS</a>]

01:57:56   resolve [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7076">TS</a>]

01:57:57   no I definitely I mean there's no doubt about it the battery life is the biggest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7077">TS</a>]

01:58:01   it's the the lagging technology at the moment it means 12 I learned so much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7081">TS</a>]

01:58:06   about what hours and see like the top number [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7086">TS</a>]

01:58:09   there's a thing about like how much Colin's you can stick into a battery [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7089">TS</a>]

01:58:12   fast enough without damaging it and some of its that's wild like you get into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7092">TS</a>]

01:58:17   that it's like people spend a lot of time doing a lot of little formulas to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7097">TS</a>]

01:58:20   make sure everything matches up correctly my sixth-grade batter are not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7100">TS</a>]

01:58:24   battery my sixth-grade science fair project was on battery batteries and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7104">TS</a>]

01:58:29   your head of your time I did a very proud a poor job on it i think i got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7109">TS</a>]

01:58:33   like a be i don't think I got a b-plus look it's mike with my son my son is in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7113">TS</a>]

01:58:37   sixth grade one of his comrades did a hovercraft using a modified electric [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7117">TS</a>]

01:58:42   leaf blower it actually hovers and carry somebody five pounds this is the science [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7122">TS</a>]

01:58:45   fairs today i really i really have asked my sixth-grade science fair project my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7125">TS</a>]

01:58:51   the the test was not whether alkaline batteries last longer that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7131">TS</a>]

01:58:58   self-evident than regular remember the time I know you combine our alkaline [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7138">TS</a>]

01:59:02   batteries like we're talking about like Double A or seed those yeah betters [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7142">TS</a>]

01:59:06   there were there were regular there were heavy duty quote-unquote and alkaline [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7146">TS</a>]

01:59:13   like the door sellin and the analyzer and so my test wasn't whether they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7153">TS</a>]

01:59:17   actually lasted longer of course they did it was whether you at consumer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7157">TS</a>]

01:59:21   prices whether you were getting more bang for your buck with them and well it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7161">TS</a>]

01:59:27   sounds clever and got it was like good enough to get the thing approved but it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7167">TS</a>]

01:59:31   really turned out to be not not a very exciting test and it was actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7171">TS</a>]

01:59:34   devilishly hard because of what I the way the test device was to use the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7174">TS</a>]

01:59:40   flashlight and put these C batteries and then turn the flashlight on note the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7180">TS</a>]

01:59:45   time and note the time I went off but not finding out what time flashlight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7185">TS</a>]

01:59:49   burned-out is oh my god this is hilarious this was a wire cutters [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7189">TS</a>]

01:59:53   battery guy he really review with this exact same probably put it they put a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7193">TS</a>]

01:59:56   flashlight in there videotaping a flashlight . into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7196">TS</a>]

01:59:56   flashlight in there videotaping a flashlight . into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7196">TS</a>]

02:00:00   box was how he ultimately did it I think see I didn't have a video camera is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7200">TS</a>]

02:00:04   actually going to have a 12-hour videotape i right I wouldn't have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7204">TS</a>]

02:00:07   12-hour videotape and it got to the point where my parents got a little mad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7207">TS</a>]

02:00:10   I mean this was not that this was not the most expensive scientific tests that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7210">TS</a>]

02:00:14   was ever performed but it did seem like I kept saying I need more back her oh my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7214">TS</a>]

02:00:18   god they're expensive and so I kind of had to triangulate like based on when it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7218">TS</a>]

02:00:23   seemed it was going off in the middle of the night okay so i started it at 5pm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7223">TS</a>]

02:00:28   and one of the middle of the night how about I start the next one at nine in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7228">TS</a>]

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02:11:42   happened to pile right yeah yeah whatever happened yeah we're under but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7902">TS</a>]

02:11:47   you have these little bits and pieces that comes up but there's nothing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7907">TS</a>]

02:11:50   comprehensive and I'm you know after bugs and s cams and nest thermostats and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7910">TS</a>]

02:11:55   other things like I in some of the security things that are coming out the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7915">TS</a>]

02:12:00   FDC putting action that the other than order against the company that didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7920">TS</a>]

02:12:03   sit properly secure its equipment strange how the FTC is getting penalties [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7923">TS</a>]

02:12:08   for not securing your devices against intrusion which brings us full circle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7928">TS</a>]

02:12:12   expect the odd thing there that's pretty good guess [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7932">TS</a>]

02:12:18   and that you know I guess the other wild card would be if they come out with new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7938">TS</a>]

02:12:20   macbooks of some sort of it's been a year since the 12-inch MacBook so would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7940">TS</a>]

02:12:25   be time but i won [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7945">TS</a>]

02:12:27   I don't know I i love line I think i mighta from one of the few but I it's my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7947">TS</a>]

02:12:31   favorite computer since my do 210 I don't love the keyboard I cope with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7951">TS</a>]

02:12:35   keyboard but I love my do 210 and i think i love this one as much as that in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7955">TS</a>]

02:12:40   between a lot bigger laptops look quite as much titanium I like lat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7960">TS</a>]

02:12:44   well I don't seemed it just seems to me like and i know that i'm just not cute [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7964">TS</a>]

02:12:48   into Intel's roadmap like a lot of people and I know that a lot of it hangs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7968">TS</a>]

02:12:52   on that but it just seems like a device that you can kind of knock for being too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7972">TS</a>]

02:12:58   slow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7978">TS</a>]

02:12:59   whatever improvements in 10 years oh yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7979">TS</a>]

02:13:02   has gotten in a year would be worth putting out a new revision of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7982">TS</a>]

02:13:06   product it's true although i laid out like a 400-page book in InDesign on my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7986">TS</a>]

02:13:12   macbook I edit audio in audition adobe audition with multiple tracks i can't do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7992">TS</a>]

02:13:17   real-time effects but it lets me edit at least playback in real time without [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/7997">TS</a>]

02:13:21   applying all the effects and and I like the dense screen I i wanted to replace [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8001">TS</a>]

02:13:24   my hair which was underpowered and didn't have a retina and I want and this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8004">TS</a>]

02:13:28   is the closest thing i get that was like affordable and and met it and I year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8008">TS</a>]

02:13:31   later i'm still pretty delighted with it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8011">TS</a>]

02:13:33   yeah ah well no I will be at the show i'm gonna I don't know the famous last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8013">TS</a>]

02:13:40   words but i might try to do like a mini episode of the show not live from the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8020">TS</a>]

02:13:46   event but maybe record something ad-hoc with any anybody else who's going to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8026">TS</a>]

02:13:51   there who will give me five or ten minutes of their time sort of a do my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8031">TS</a>]

02:13:54   thoughts and observations on the event right afterwards monday after the phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8034">TS</a>]

02:13:58   will be a lot of people you know they're I couldn't take seeing a i'm not i'm not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8038">TS</a>]

02:14:02   going on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8042">TS</a>]

02:14:02   seattle i'll be covering remotely from macworld but Susie oaks will be there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8042">TS</a>]

02:14:06   and ok mr. Jason I'm sure and steady Caldwell understand so the the old gang [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8046">TS</a>]

02:14:12   will be there in different guises people who are readily volunteer will readily [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8052">TS</a>]

02:14:16   volunteer to be on a podcast except that they don't know anything about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8056">TS</a>]

02:14:18   practically talking this is a real stretch for you Jason accept that would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8058">TS</a>]

02:14:22   you would you consider being a doctor he's only easily record I think 15 a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8062">TS</a>]

02:14:26   week now the poor guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8066">TS</a>]

02:14:28   yeah like a little exaggerated i'm looking forward to it I'd I know it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8068">TS</a>]

02:14:33   not a blockbuster event but I almost feel like these are the ones that are a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8073">TS</a>]

02:14:36   little they're more interesting strategically to me because the bigger [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8076">TS</a>]

02:14:39   ones are a little bit more obvious strategically yeah this will be fun i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8079">TS</a>]

02:14:43   think i love that we don't know for sure as much despite got a leak the fact is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8083">TS</a>]

02:14:48   just not as much means a lot of known but not seen its kind of interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8088">TS</a>]

02:14:53   yeah totally Glenn fleischmann anybody who wants to see you're well how I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8093">TS</a>]

02:14:59   you know you're everywhere you're at macworld now i have already already like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8099">TS</a>]

02:15:03   for them I you know I've got a book on slack that's coming out soon worse [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8103">TS</a>]

02:15:06   indicating it at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8106">TS</a>]

02:15:07   tidbits they have a neat model where the first two chapters are up there now for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8107">TS</a>]

02:15:10   free to its calm about using slack because know a lot of people a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8110">TS</a>]

02:15:14   people your age of mine John they've been told they have to use slack slack [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8114">TS</a>]

02:15:18   fun to use but thank you come across people like okay I got to use this new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8118">TS</a>]

02:15:22   tool how does it work and like all right so a first book is about that the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8122">TS</a>]

02:15:26   two chapters will be out in a few weeks the full book and then also a smaller [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8126">TS</a>]

02:15:30   compendium you know I got name-checked is South by Southwest I wasn't there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8130">TS</a>]

02:15:35   people start telling me Stuart Butterfield's mention your name on stage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8135">TS</a>]

02:15:38   like what to do what it says see look what I know starts during passing for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8138">TS</a>]

02:15:43   like 15 years like what did i do just full circle very briefly i'd mention in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8143">TS</a>]

02:15:48   passing Roman Mars the host 9% visible great podcast he said something about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8148">TS</a>]

02:15:52   the future of article reporting a business will be people posting slack [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8152">TS</a>]

02:15:57   screen captures right and I respond oh well you know they'll just put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8157">TS</a>]

02:16:01   steganographic pixel identifiers slack will so we take a screen capture will be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8161">TS</a>]

02:16:05   able to identify it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8165">TS</a>]

02:16:07   this is stuart onstage says something like inflation mentions that we're not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8167">TS</a>]

02:16:11   going to do this is like I thank God that was very funny looks like that why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8171">TS</a>]

02:16:14   are being talked about it so that when i say it like it's just saying that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8174">TS</a>]

02:16:18   will not be inserting a security identifier I did not know you were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8178">TS</a>]

02:16:21   writing a book is like that is fantastic it is a great idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8181">TS</a>]

02:16:24   it's fun i love it's it's really great and my five slack teams yes so that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8184">TS</a>]

02:16:30   the but people can read two chapters now and there's more of the book out a few [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8190">TS</a>]

02:16:34   weeks but yes one macro by me at tidbits calm and more to come [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8194">TS</a>]

02:16:41   and of course a Twitter very quiet seldomly updated at glen with 2 n's f [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8201">TS</a>]

02:16:49   account i took two weeks off it was a good break [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8209">TS</a>]

02:16:52   I didn't know tweeting for two weeks is really good was it hard it hurt no it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8212">TS</a>]

02:16:57   was actually it's good it's good it's interesting it's at the being on Twitter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8217">TS</a>]

02:17:01   during the political season is very entertaining but i kinda got you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8221">TS</a>]

02:17:04   backed off a little from now come back i'm enjoying it again Glenn has class [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8224">TS</a>]

02:17:08   planets over 400 1431 to do you take a break right at the 400,000 work right I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8228">TS</a>]

02:17:16   did I essentially auctioned off the tweet to raise money for Planned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8236">TS</a>]

02:17:19   Parenthood [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8239">TS</a>]

02:17:20   I raised i think people contributed almost three thousand dollars as been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8240">TS</a>]

02:17:23   someone got my four thousand sweet as results that was that was my little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8243">TS</a>]

02:17:27   taking a break [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8247">TS</a>]

02:17:28   I just know that right now there's a lot of people we've been gone a long time is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8248">TS</a>]

02:17:31   long so people can tell it's over there like oh come on 400 thousand tweets this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8251">TS</a>]

02:17:34   is when you know these guys are starved for oxygen and now Gruber is getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8254">TS</a>]

02:17:38   goofy and he's making shit up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8258">TS</a>]

02:17:40   nope i'm telling you right now you could cleanse struck it Alex 101,000 i will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8260">TS</a>]

02:17:46   leave the mass of dividing the number of hours in a day and the number of years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8266">TS</a>]

02:17:50   that Twitter is has existed i will leave that up to you i'll leave it as an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8270">TS</a>]

02:17:54   exercise you fire up p calc on your iPhone and and get Glenn's tweets per [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8274">TS</a>]

02:18:00   day out but he's probably too I bet you've tweeted during the show i'll bet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8280">TS</a>]

02:18:03   if I look right now that you've tweeted while we recorded the show I'm withheld [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8283">TS</a>]

02:18:07   no star actually a dragon's eyes I'm respectful of your time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8287">TS</a>]

02:18:11   jakis I I'm listening intently slack is driven has taken some light reading [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8291">TS</a>]

02:18:17   where you get some of the people i used to communicate with a lot with on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8297">TS</a>]

02:18:19   twitter we now have been slack room so the incompetent work it is absolutely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8299">TS</a>]

02:18:24   understand the real afm as a big chat room there's a lot of podcast networks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8304">TS</a>]

02:18:29   hosts a podcast networks all over the place [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8309">TS</a>]

02:18:31   mana one thing i like about slack just for those listening to it's the fact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8311">TS</a>]

02:18:35   that you can use it free with like up to 10,000 people and get most of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8315">TS</a>]

02:18:38   features is a really amazing freemium model i think they have like like 1.8 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8318">TS</a>]

02:18:43   million of their users are daily users are in that mode like 600,000 paying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8323">TS</a>]

02:18:48   service so yeah most of the black teams under free it's just nice to have a form [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8328">TS</a>]

02:18:53   that's private where you can have these discussions well I will make sure to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8333">TS</a>]

02:18:57   the link to the book in the show notes Glenn thank you for your time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8337">TS</a>]

02:19:01   this is great it's been a great pleasure John thank you very much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8341">TS</a>]

02:19:04   talk to you soon [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+Btuxamp2s/8344">TS</a>]