The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► the dulcet tones of your sweet voice gun i propose a poem by the way [TS]

00:00:04 ◼   ► oh well let's hear it trying to guess I'd it's about I was I was moved by the [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► ending of the Apple filing so and I've been listening to Hamilton we're too [TS]

00:00:13 ◼   ► much are you a fan of hamilton and you've been listening to iive not i am [TS]

00:00:16 ◼   ► aware that it exists and I'm aware that it a sensation and I agree that the [TS]

00:00:21 ◼   ► premise sounds it sounds fascinating but I've actually not like watched or [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► listened to any of it yet it's kind of a brain virus like I'd heard about it I [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► sort of was like well maybe i'll wait I'll see if somebody don't want to and [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► then I was like well listen to a song and then you just spiraled down so this [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► is just my poem inspired by the end of the Apple brief with apologies to [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► Hamilton Your Honor we must have earned reading Brandeis government seals a [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► danger not understanding the scope of their pleading the danger delivery lies [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► within mistreating Americans rights we posit they're exceedingly well meeting [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► but insidious encroaching demeaning [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► there we go very well said nipsey Russell for the ages [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► i'm also reading a ehrenberg papers because you know how the government [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► cited as yeah I've been actually going back and reading some of the historical [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► documents create some books from the eighteen hundreds in some later books [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► written about it found interesting article from 92 and looking at the [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► original ciphers that the codes and ciphers they used it's a very [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► fascinating thing to see what the state of cryptography was the late seventeen [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► hundreds early eighteen-hundreds all comes back to Hamilton it kinda does [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► it's really kind of funny who this is a tweet from my past buzzed Anderson last [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► night who would have thought Aaron Burr would get so much attention into is a [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► little weird and then they did Hamilton performance at the White House like not [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► long after the FBI was citing the umbrella amber ostensibly want to become [TS]

00:01:56 ◼   ► the Emperor Mexico need a plan [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► American history is kind of awesome and strangely tell you the Emperor from [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► Mexican restaurants ago just going to the mid-mississippi to try to schedule [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► some kind of event in a general who didn't want to get caught [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► up with it had been corresponding with him for years turned over the ciphered [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► letter and there's a trial and he was found innocent of treason because the [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► justice in the case of Frankenstein famous just Marshall Marshall thank you [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► said that no actual like event had occurred so it wasn't treasonous to [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► discuss this even if that's what was discussed so you will have been treason [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► to become the emperor of Mexico since that's not it wasn't trying to become [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► the Emperor united states he was trying to raise our armed forces to fight [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► against separate another nation that without the support and authority to of [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► america so there was some like I am losing the detail there but it was under [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► it was treason because he was acting against the interest in stated policy of [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► america and waging war that was the intent but without actually doing it so [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► number one up living for decades after that and never quite got back to the [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► same position aquatic when he was vice president between the duel and then [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► treason trial and then just kind of people not really wanted to be what is [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► that I went to the story of the tool that's this one of those things that [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► it's like you file it on your head that that the revolutionary times were crazy [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► and that they were you know like the remnants of the medieval era was still [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► you know floating around was conquered most things doing with was mostly bandit [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► was in it was noticed i believe it common practice in England I think it [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► was practiced in the barbarous colonies right and i am reading the channel [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► biography of Hamilton now so I haven't gotten to the intricacies there i recall [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► from my past reading and and bring some things after the play so become popular [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► went back and reread and they had to go to New Jersey and this line in the in [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► the musical yet you can do anything in New Jersey right you can just like [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► everything is legal in New Jersey the jack and they're going to jersey because [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► it was still ostensibly legal but no manslaughter was thin and murder still [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► illegal [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► so you could condense ibly in some states you could do all and if no one [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► was injured or killed [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► you might just walk away from it but such are not much of a dual though if [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► nobody's injector well it's to satisfy Honor I mean that's I think it's it's [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► funny the ritualized violence there's a really great essay in new york times for [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► a few days ago these philosophers talking about [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► what violence is they argue that violence isn't an act itself it's a [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► violence has a cycle you know there's an attack you attack someone that's not [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► personal violence their definition is that you're dealing with a cycle that [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► perpetuates itself that is violence and it's a great discussion that deals with [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► sports as a representation of of force and violence in a controlled fashion and [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► violence at the Trump rallies and it's I was blown away by it but doing is part [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► of that tradition is yes its overt violence but it is also under very [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► specific constraints and a lot of the time duels didn't result in anyone being [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► hit that was the point but everyone got to satisfy the fact that the express the [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► form of ritualized violence without actually killing someone but you could [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► also kill somebody [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► so why did Bern Hamilton getting a duel I burn was well let's see this this is [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► what you have to have to watch the musical 30 degrees can somehow spent [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► 5,000 option tickets but that the dual the subject the duel was that basically [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► Hamilton was talking smack about birds and probably rightly so / really shifted [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► to whatever you need to do [TS]

00:05:32 ◼   ► he doesn't love double-dealing Helton was not a pure character either [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► necessarily but he he had been speaking publicly and privately and i believe [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► there was a specific dinner at that some comments came through sober wanted him [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► to apologize and Hamilton said I'm not saying anything that's not true and even [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► though his son Hamilton son had been killed in a duel [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► not many years before and both he and berhad seconded this is part of the [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► musical to had seconded another duel when they were younger they were the [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► seconds and in a case that involved i think was George Washington being [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► insulted [TS]

00:06:09 ◼   ► George Washington was more parties the dual even with that they went out there [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► and there's this long-running debate the musical is part of the channel biography [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► is whether Hamilton intended to shoot her or not whether Burr was reacting [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► with intent or thought he was about to be shot and and fire directly but never [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► quite known and we're talking about 200-plus years later it's amazing i did [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► the the takeaway i took from school when I learned about it was that it in and [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► you know and again who knows how [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► I carried it is but it's it seems as though like most of the founding fathers [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► were were genuine statesman and then a couple of them we're for real hothead [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► oh yeah well in there all I just I just watched the musical 1776 my kids my kids [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► are all head up about Hamilton now and you know where the other coast and [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► tickets are $MONEY fortune so we will hopefully see it when it towards you [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► know a touring company to seattle probably a B Company in like four year [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► hit 23 Kurzweil will go pay too much to see here but I'm like a look there is a [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► musical about the founding fathers like really really let's watch 1776 so we did [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► that I'd watched it for the incomparable we did an old movie club a couple of [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► years ago and watched and re-watched with them they loved it's all sort of [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► focus on John Adams primarily also Jefferson and Franklin and that I always [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► whenever I see these things like Michael read some more stuff about atoms they [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► are really interesting people they had rich lives that they were involved in [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► all kinds of stuff and they weren't they you know they were all people who have [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► their own lives in Congress was another thing wasn't there call wasn't seen as [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► one . in their life the content of Congress particularly but I don't know [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► it's a fascinating and Bo Franklin course the fastening lived a long life [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► and like sex workers and mistresses and all kinds of people and lived in France [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► and came back and anyway so great a great bunch that that's the musical john [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► adams apparently late-in-life wrote about how he was obnoxious and disliked [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► and late in life he looked quite a long time he and jefferson died on the same [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► day they are bitter enemies they died many miles part of the same day which is [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► one of those little and the day was july 4th yes that's right forgot you're right [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► mr. Foyle but an Adam's criticized his own personality late in life its musical [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► takes it up there's just a recurring line your boxes and disliked you know [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► that sir and I but apparently it was actually quite well liked and he was [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► feeding himself too harshly late in life so he wasn't as obnoxious as you go also [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► brings to mind from a comment you had a couple minutes ago at the dylan song [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► from the Traveling Wilburys moon in jersey everything's legal as long as you [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► don't get caught haha see Hamilton is great actually pulls from [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► physical theatre modern musical rap and hip-hop I heard like echoes of poems [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► were out like all of either so if you go to genius the annotated and people have [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► found it's not a pastiche but he pulls so lin-manuel miranda is a excellent in [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► terms of taking your ear and letting you hear an echo of something if you're [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► tuning if you're not it sounds good but if your big hip-hop fan you'll hear you [TS]

00:09:18 ◼   ► know rhythms patterns lines the kind of characterization if your musical theater [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► fan like I am you hear all kinds of things throughout you're like wait oh [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► you know there's that references 1776 there's a reference to South Pacific [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► Rodgers and Hammerstein and Sondheim references throughout sometime loves it [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► apparently which is great it looks like it's funny we're talking about the [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► seventeen hundreds but it's not right a challenge because so is Apple the FBI so [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► what's cracking up like what is the deal that this musical sweeping the nation [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► and then suddenly appear as equality all writs Act has been modified for 250 [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► years but anyway it's just the way it always works out you know these things [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► these things happen it's it's clear dies the militants it's all right serendipity [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► is a real like almost like a force it is pretty amazing i'm now the details of it [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► though it's kind of interesting we'll get into it again but it so it last week [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► the federal government filed up their final brief which Apple initially took [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► think it's fair to say took umbrage yes to several of the angles that the [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► government took in it I thought this was interesting because i was invited to the [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► to the conference calls that reporters were on both last weekend this week and [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► it was a real interesting difference like last week and they do them very [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► fast and it's it's obviously and I'll i enjoy thinking about this strategically [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► because I don't work fast right there in fireball is not a source of breaking [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► news the talk shows certainly is not as a source of breaking news i tend to i [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► tend to take my time and not not because i want to but because i have to add my [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► brain just doesn't work [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► quickly but it's fascinating to me to look at the the meta angle on it which [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► is that when these briefs drop Apple reacts very quickly so last week's call [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► i think that it was on friday maybe it was Thursday Thursday or Friday last [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► week when the government put them without and apple held the call with the [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► reporters an hour later so I I certainly hadn't gotten through the brief I guess [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► Apple at you know that you know apples attorneys had the full hour before they [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► started the call [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► Wow um and it's I guess that the strategy there is that they know that [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► once the brief is out the news media is some of the news media are going to you [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► know start writing takes an apple wants to spend get their spin on it out as [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► quickly as possible otherwise it's too late that they have to have you know if [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► they have to do something [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► press relations was quickly but I thought the difference between there [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► there there [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► what would you call it a hot take last week and this week is so different i [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► gets I detect a very quick cat cool confidence in their current argument but [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► anyway one of the things the government put in their brief last week was a [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► reference to this is again this is back to what's the year 7 1807 Chief Justice [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► Marshall that the government claims once ordered a third party to quote provide [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► decryption services [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► I've I wouldn't read the original transcripts that trial by the way [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► ok that's fed that i cannot i did not i want to hear about it but that the [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► government said that there's some precedent for for compelling somebody to [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► decrypt something that we can't decrypt is that Chief Justice Marshall had [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► ehrenberg secretary decrypt deciphered note and apple in its response i was [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► yesterday was a monday haha but yeah monday we got 100 yesterday yesterday [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► was yesterday [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► oh yeah it's all that but it's it's all a blur [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► says that they got the government got it wrong that Marshall did nothing of the [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► sort that the all writs Act had nothing to do was not even an issue in Burr and [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► what actually happened according to apple's brief is that ehrenberg [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► secretary declined to state whether he quote understood the contents of a [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► certain letter written in cipher on the ground that he might incriminate himself [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► so another team just poking the Fifth Amendment to declined to say whether he [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► understood the ciphered message and what the court decided was that he could [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► answer that because simply entering whether he understood the cipher would [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► not incriminate them right that's which is our fascinating if you're you know [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► sort of a.e you know like at a like I am just sort of like a broad strokes like [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► interested in civil liberties and these in cases like this like edge cases [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► around the Fifth Amendment can be fascinating and that's an interesting [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► one hears you know in its again what over 200 years ago its sophisticated [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► question yeah they're leaving this is what I love living in 2016 and be able [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► to pull up instantly transcripts of trials that happened over 200 years ago [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► with the court anyway the bottom line this is from Apple's brief in a footnote [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► the court did not require the clerk to decipher the letter that's correct [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► that's correct [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► who is he it was a it was the there are two questions being put in was do you [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► understand the size of that paper did the paper come from Colonel burr was [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► written by my bias direction the last question summary but last question ought [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► to have been first stated the witness does not say why the answer the question [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► of the tenancy to criminate him and so it goes back and forth because the judge [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► ultimately the issue is if I right he didn't have to decipher their asked him [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► if he knew the contents of the letter not to provide the cipher key in fact [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► just to be pedantic here was both a code and decipher the code book actually to [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► that they will concern and burn others have been using the first one since the [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► 1790s I think and then later when they modified that codes for like president [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► vice-president France and so forth and then there was also a simple replacement [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► site for that use the rotating leather scheme so you have a letter to the top [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► like Cuba or France [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► particularly you take the letters following them down assign the numbers [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► and then you could you read across the row to pick the numbers corresponding so [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► complicated for the day because you could work out simple site substitution [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► ciphers are relatively easy to work out easier with computers but definitely [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► doable in the day and that's not that protected but codes are very difficult [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► so without knowledge of the code you can determine from frequency of appearance [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► and other characteristics you can sometimes achieve this but he wasn't [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► asked you know the cipher it was do you all right but it wasn't for the cipher [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► right was asked do you know what it said do you understand the contents and he [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► was concerned that any statement would allow him to it would provide it would [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► put in the position of incrimination right fascinating but i have to say it [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► sounds to me like apples exactly right that it's no precedent whatsoever for [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► compelling somebody to decode and encrypted pretty clearly very clearly [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► anyway what's a one of the interesting side effects of all this and the end of [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► invoking things like these that this burr case is this that i did not know [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► that the founding fathers took work so commonly in use of codes and ciphers and [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► stuff ruling apparently one of the things i read was like the first [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► Postmaster General was like a political enemy of a couple of them i forget which [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► I forget others that the way that their political things are aight i get it [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► mixed up but long story short that they they really felt some of them really [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► felt like they needed to because they knew that this Postmaster General was [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► reading your mail [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► oh yeah there's a contrite mail was often open its interesting thing that [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► our current mail system i have forgotten how far back the law goes it might be [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► the eighteenth and nineteenth century that it's illegal for any party to open [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► the mail that concluding the post office except with like specific warrant or [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► subpoena another Hamilton musical reference by was Hercules Mulligan best [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► name in the world he was transporting messages he was not a loyalist but he [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► was sort of a spy going back and forth to New York is a textile importer and [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► clothing shop is taylor and he and his slave whose name was Cato we're sending [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► messages back and forth often in [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► code or in other you know trying to decide the meaning of it eventually [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► became too dangerous but he's one of the reasons that they were able to to [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► Hamilton was able to assist General Washington in some of the battles around [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► and it's amazing it is an amazing named Hercules molecule a smile again it's [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► awesome great partner in the flight ya konan coats with an important part i [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► think i forget what the earliest cryptographic stuff is that there's a [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► thing of wrapping a strip of paper around a cylinder assert dimension like [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► pencil-sized thing that was used so you could right across it and then unfurl it [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► must you the dimensions you will be able to figure it out all yeah I've seen that [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► I've seen that and that's I think where the earliest uses of script and simple [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► cipher substitution if you don't know what it is and it's only become more [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► complicated overtime but code has a code interception of code and people being [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► executed for possession of what was seen as code that was never decipher doll big [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► issues are mainly for thousands of years when i was a kid i got i spent a couple [TS]

00:18:39 ◼   ► I mean it's been a long time i was truly you know like grade school age but i [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► spent like you know a 1.1 of my obsessions became codes and stuff like [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► that and boom I very high speed to remember that one where you wrap the [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► paper around like a ruler type thing of a certain known with and and then when [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► you unwrap it [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► it just looks like gibberish again like you said that's not the most secure [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► nobody else knows it then I don't have sophistication the other side it's a [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► people like why someone with gibberish I i have a very vivid memory i am almost [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► certain i was in first grade but it was certainly like first or second that [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► Kellogg's had a campaign and that three or four of their like flagship kitty [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► cereals had little little plastic things in them so like the toucan sam one might [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► be blue and the frosted flakes Tony the Tiger one was yellow and maybe the Sugar [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► Smacks one was red [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► you know with the rabbit rabbit or whatever his name was my ribbit frog you [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► know I mean but they're so used to be different colors and [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► and you would if they were all just a different like 26 character cypher you [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► know where it would just be a different rotation you know sort of like rock it [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► was like a rock 13 but you know Tony the Tiger's rot 17 and and the frog one was [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► rotten 11 or something like that but I was fascinated like AI as a first-grader [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► I felt pretty clever that I figured out the differences between them but then it [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► was cool because then we was it like with friends at school we could send [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► coded messages to each other and it took so long spent you know spinning the disk [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► it would just be like it's been altered drink your ovaltine yeah exactly eggs [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► attack it like i thought it's called the script script holly is the Greek rod [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► that was used for encryption substitutions diaper I knew there is [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► something that's not the earliest Egyptians were maybe a thousand years [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► before for that there's also a famous story of the word Shibboleth you know [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► it's a great story it's not about code per se but spies in a camp [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► some might camp and the leader says say you now should be left in the spies were [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► unable to pronounce the show sound and they said symbol F and were put to death [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► social life is like that pass phrase like a thing you say to be shown that [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► your member of a tribe always like that these divisions go back thousands of [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► years so I'm probably the origin of being able to put words on paper people [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► were figuring out ways to make other people not be able to read those right [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► well to communicate at length right yeah because you could always communicate in [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► private [TS]

00:21:26 ◼   ► well I mean I mean obviously you could if your room is bugged or whatever [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► there's there's ways around but if you where you see if you're reasonably [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► secure that your room is the room know you're an inn is not being bugged you [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► can have a private conversation with somebody that the trick is how do you [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► have a private conversation with somebody at a distance and it's like you [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► said it's long as we've been communicating at a distance even if it's [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► like just begin by sending dispatching a messenger there have been codes [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► yeah i mean how are you saying that my people aren't proof spaces is not [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► exactly popular in our minds my grandparents grab my family was [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► furniture and pressure stores for many many years and my grandfather developed [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► a code [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► number code and letter code based on our last name and his mother's initial so [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► they could put the retail pro the wholesale price of things on the tags [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► that customers knowing so we're gonna go shot the new exactly how they could go [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► see clever fell out my grandpa very very clever boy that's the type of thing that [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► nowadays people you know yet [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► eventually some consumer web site would come out with the yeah yeah go into this [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► mattress store has a deep especially ya know they can go [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► yeah alright let me take a break here and thank our sponsor it's our good [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► friends at casper you guys know Casper they sell mattresses online obsessively [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► engineered mattresses at shockingly fair prices there's one of the there's my [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► favorite thing about casper mattresses they don't make you choose between like [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► two three four five six seven different types of mattresses are the technologies [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► and now they figured it out for you just the right sink just the right balance [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► they've taken to commonly used mattress technologies latex foam and memory foam [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► and they've made their own custom cocktail between the two for better [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► nights and better days [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► good sleep so all you do is pick what size you want [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► so you know what size bed you have so you just go there you need a new [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► mattress get the right size and as crazy as it sounds I know I've said this every [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► time they sponsor the show it sounds crazy to buy a mattress without like [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► trying it out but what kind of a tryout do you actually get a retail store [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► anyway it's actually kind of gross because other people have slept on it [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► right and just like being there with all of your clothes on and laying on a bed [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► for two or three minutes isn't gonna tell you how you sleep on it so actually [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► the way that Casper does it if you think about it it's a traditional but it makes [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► a lot more sense they have a risk-free trial and return policy you try sleeping [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► on a Casper for a hundred days and if you don't like it up to a hundred days [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► they'll do just call them up [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► go to the website and they'll take care of free will just take it right back [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► no no questions asked I've even heard from listener the show sent me an email [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► and said that [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► that they did it and that they bought it because it was on the show and it was [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► like for whatever reason wasn't wasn't to their liking and it and and said in a [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► little just wanted to say I know you keep saying that they take them back but [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► it literally was as easy as can possibly be to take a mattress back here is the [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► sum of their prices it retailed ego retail for mattresses you're probably [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► gonna pay like $1,500 or more for premium mattress Casper's start at 504 [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► twin 754 full 854 queen and just nine hundred fifty bucks for a king-size [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► mattress so you just can't lose [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► here's where you go for more information go to Casper dot-com cispr dot-com / the [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► talk show and use that code the the talk show and you'll say fifty bucks off [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► their already excellent prices free shipping to you free shipping back if [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► you want to send it back and great prices Casper calm / the talk show so I [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► guess we should talk in detail about the Apple FBI case [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► yeah . gentlemen weekend especially because i feel like this is the one [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► thing this is the thing I mean we can talk about next week's event and what [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► our last minute speculation is whatever but that's it [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► you know it's interesting but it's of the moment whereas that this F Apple FBI [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► thing is is truly I I don't think it's hyperbole I think it's genuinely [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► important to the future of the Republic I i am absolutely i think it's actually [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► one of the most fundamental issues of privacy we could possibly facing out and [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► we have the best advocate on our side and the government and extremely [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► disappointed the unlockable administration's stance [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► I feel like we're for being sold out because rich mogul has this line to talk [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► to him about it he says it's not on my watch [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► isn't that is what is driving and he says he's worked with law enforcement a [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► lot a lot of good takes on this subject and he said nobody wants to be the guy [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► when the event happens and you could have been something else and you didn't [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► do everything so the FBI is doing is scorched earth policy to break apart [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► this thing they try to find a test case because james comey and a few other [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► people are saying this is not going to be the thing where we lose not i'm not [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► gonna be the person responsible for the next terrorist event so I'm going to do [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► everything even if potentially it threatens Liberty that's not my concern [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► my concern is preventing this attack and I think it's true too i think they're [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► being such Bulldogs about it it but I i agree with you i think this is a tough [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► that you been writing about this I think is a wonderful way the waterproof spaces [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► is a big issue and company said that I and then Jonathan knows the gr ski has [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► been writing about this too is just wrote recently about how there are many [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► waterproof spaces in america american law and the Constitution state laws [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► carve out lots of places in which warrants aren't allowed [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► great post but are we allowed only the privacy of our own mind what here's the [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► thing you know you're not talking about this on twitter is there's always [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► natural extensions should ISPs preserve every email you ever sent like coming to [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► the email permanently [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► what if their brain scanners what if brain scans existed tomorrow there's [TS]

00:27:12 ◼   ► technology starting to be able to pull images out of people's heads right with [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► fats I mean would they be right [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► would they be allowed to use that honest suspect in custody [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► like it's not science fiction right it's not science fiction we're seeing I mean [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► people are showing their actually like having some glimmerings of this where [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► it's real it's something that's not telepathy its science in a lab they can [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► show and so holy cow you know this isn't impractical theoretically could they [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► compel a criminal suspect that too to have like a brain scan and ask them [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► questions sort of like that it like worked today it's a lie detector test [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► statistic magic like what is the passcode to your phone [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► what's the passcode to your phone and if they read a number out of the guy's head [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► and try it and it works is that admit now but I'm exactly so I don't do it [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► live it i know that i don't think they can do that today to my knowledge [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► there's no such device today but that does not seem [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► like it's the unreasonable even within the scope of your my lifetimes [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► I mean in terms of absolutely not the way that that that we're starting to [TS]

00:28:08 ◼   ► understand the brain and I've said this before i said this on the show and I [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► really it to me it really it's interesting what if what if the some [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► future computing device that it provides capabilities like what we used today [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► with an iphone what if it's embedded in your body but if it's something that you [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► place in your wrist [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► what if it's something you do put in your head right but what if it's a and [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► again I i'm not an expert on Alzheimer's and I know that there are some [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► biological you know what the solutions are our improvements to to alzheimer's [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► research going on but what if you know somebody 10 15 20 years from now invents [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► some kind of very small system-on-a-chip that can be embedded in somebody's brain [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► to help with the the cognitive decline then the dementia that's caused by [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► Alzheimer's it would that device [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► therefore you know then be susceptible to the government reading the contents [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► of it to me did you know it it's not a preposterous to to pose hypotheticals [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► like that and my answer would be no you know that it's it's no different than [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► there's not that much different and it's going to be less as time goes on between [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► artificial digital devices and our capability of reading the you know the [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► the meccanian of treating our brains is the mechanical devices they are at a [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► certain level it's it's also i think the waterproof space is a great metaphor [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► because in fact every place we have in in our brains and in reality that we own [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► our all want proof space until the war is produced and I think there's this [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► interesting thing where the view of the FBI as they've expressed the Department [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► of Justice is that all spaces are open to the government on demand and that is [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► simply not mean it is both true and not true [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► people can also Express civil disobedience and be jailed for contempt [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► or for violating court orders or other charges they can go to jail for refusing [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► you have a lot of people who [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► nobody in the past sometimes in oblique gone to jail rather than give up [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► information or or access or locations of things i think by default we should [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► assume that all places are private [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► I think this notion is ajar ski wrote about this also is that the Bill of [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► Rights is not a instructions on what the government can do its instructions on [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► what citizens rights are and it prescribes the government from doing so [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► much so it's not a plan to use to circumvent rights it's a giant wall to [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► prohibit the government from excess and so the idea that every space we own is [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► really owned by the government is terrifying that's really you know it's a [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► very much a conservative and far-right view that the government you know any [TS]

00:30:58 ◼   ► Democrat Democrat elected government would be have that in place of the [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► government owns all spaces so they're playing into the hands at some point of [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► that and I think people who are on the left of the spectrum would say also that [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► even if they believe in a bigger role for government or different nature of [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► government regulation and control that the government having sort of a defacto [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► right to all of our private spaces our homes our computers and you know by [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► extension reminds that that also is not in keeping with the nature of what you [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► know civil human rights are being our and it would be in the nature of our [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► country so I mean you come down this is like what percentage of iphones are used [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► for crime notes . 00 whatever percent and the idea that all iphones have to be [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► open to inspection at any time like bags going through it an x-ray machine or the [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► TSA with their locks that have been duplicated because they allowed photos [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► to be taken of the master register Keys like that's what the FBI is proposing is [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► will have a way for you know the TSA style investigators to get in which [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► means everyone get it right and there's a the part that to me is the most [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► disappointing single most disappointing and in the in the Obama administration [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► and [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► you know I'll just admit it and in Hillary Clinton has a spouse the same [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► opinion is a belief in this magical thinking that if we just put smart [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► enough people into a room together that they can come up with a way that that [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► this would this backdoor solution would only be available to law enforcement [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► that we're not asking you to make a backdoor that anybody could get into we [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► just want to backdoor that law enforcement can get into when we have a [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► warrant which sounds reasonable and in some you know fictional other universe [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► where that's mathematically possible that might be great i actually I i think [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► that there's good reasons why a civil libertarian would be opposed even to [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► that idea like a like let me just put this out there that and and I tend to [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► lean that way i would listen to the argument but i tend to lean towards even [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► if that were possible i don't think it's a good idea and I think it's contrary to [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► the values that are already in our bill of rights but it is an idea but the [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► simple truth is that it's math all experts agree [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► everybody who understands encryption dennis is it I i don't think that you it [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► it's more than even like a i mean it's it's like provably incorrect you know [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► like as opposed to let's say climate change where you can say you can argue [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► that only 98 or 99 percent of expert climate scientists agree that the you [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► know what we're seeing is man-made [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► I mean with with cryptography and back doors it's a hundred percent agreement [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► because of where you're totally right i just realized I haven't seen any any [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► crypto deniers out there doing this is possible only see politicians in law [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► enforcement right it's an expensive [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► well that's part of the beauty of trying to convince 12 your own son of it i'm [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► trying to get when i talk to my twelve-year-old son it does not have the [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► enthusiasm from mathematics that I did that that's the beauty of mathematics [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► it's it's it you know and and it in the way that computer science sort of falls [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► out of mathematics could go a long way in here like when I went to drexel I got [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► my degree in computer science it was from the Department of math and computer [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► science [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► it was one department from mathematics and computer science and it well they've [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► since broken it out in that computer science is often a [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► I don't know what they did but it's an expensive building probably yeah I i [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► think that but i think that what happened is that politically the [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► computer science department grew to you know used to be like it was the math [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► department with a little cookie computer science group of professors and then [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► computer science got so popular and so important to our society that growth but [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► anyway I just thought and it's not just because i went two directions where they [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► put them together it just made sense to me though that when you type a computer [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► program and it either works or doesn't work it's it there's a certain Beauty to [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► that and I think a lot of the people who listen to the show are probably not in [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► your head like that's why they got into this racket because there's a statistics [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► just sore statistics lie math doesn't write correct and it's you know it's [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► just disappointing to me that they keep you know pushing back on that there was [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► a there's a line that Apple's attorneys used its was in the sort of off the [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► record you can paraphrase you know the rules were from the call that you can [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► paraphrase it not quoted directly but the gist of it was that that they talk [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► to us law-enforcement frequently and they are happy to do so and happy to [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► work with the government and that they are of course you know opposed to [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► terrorism and crime and all this stuff and that they are also happy to you know [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► willing and happy to comply with warrants and provide information that [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► they have but that every time they meet with law enforcement about this issue [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► law enforcement US law enforcement comes at the discussion with the angle of how [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► can you let us into the iphone and never wants to discuss the question of should [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► we be able to get into the iphone it's just not it there intransigent in [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► transit gent on the point of how do we get into the iphone oh here let me give [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► you a good thought experiment because i think there's this issuer people i want [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► to say that I keep stating on the macro podcast everywhere I keep saying look I [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► absolutely support the right of illegal boring i don't like extra judicial stuff [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► i don't like the visor court [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► I don't like extra [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► constitutional things legal rendition all that stuff i like the legality the [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► constitutionally created warrants right and i think the FBI should be seeking [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► every available reasonable means and sometimes even almost unreasonable with [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► a court holding them and checks they don't violate the Constitution totally [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► support that I am absolutely a I want to trust the government the government [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► isn't always trustworthy but i believe it's the best system we have to ensure [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► justice we need to improve the quality of Justice as opposed to constraining [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► them from being able to use tools that are legal and and courts oversee in a [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► public way that is fair or whatever so here's a thought experiment i was [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► reading a paper academic paper year or so ago you know that cameras and cell [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► phones being that dsl dollars are so good now that they can extract a face [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► from the reflection in an object in the pic lee subject so you're taking a [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► picture you're behind the camera a reflection even my Newton anything [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► you're taking a picture of can be reconstructed to provide a decent facial [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► match against you and this is today right this is a couple years ago [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► actually [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► so when we have 20 megapixel or 50 mega pixel or photographic computational [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► photographic equipment and everything our iphones 17 cameras on them whatever [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► right so here's the picture here's the the snare you and this is where I think [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► we would agree on let's find out is that FBR long person says ah we know there [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► are several people in the vicinity of this event and they were taking pictures [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► we believe we can recover the face for a reflection of the actual criminal and [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► they subpoenaed the phones or they know they demand they want to use it as [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► evidence in my view I think that's totally legitimate now is now and could [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► these people be compelled under all writs Act provided maybe not maybe they [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► would say yesterday they seem so you know that request to want this photo [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► some people handing over those photos thinking they were legally obliged to to [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► aid in this that seems reasonable to me where the line will be crossed as if [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► like in this case they said oh we need to use the all writs act to break the [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► encryption because some of the witnesses refused to turn over their phones we [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► think there's a picture of the killer in that scene [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► what are you hi Terry it's you know that's exactly what a warrant is ID in [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► my opinion you know you can you ask for permission to search whatever a room [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► house [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► a filing cabinet digital device and what they can get off it they can get off it [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► but if all they get off it is a it strongly encrypted jumble of ones and [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► zeros that stuff [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► yeah maybe that's an eye on so that's that's the thing I miss the difference [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► of two parallel case you know where its but I think we're going to see I think [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► based on this we're going to see a lot more use the all writs act and I think [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► they're gonna be like that i think a lot of citizens or small companies or even [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► bigger companies are going to feel compelled to do it to obey and I think [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► the president said here will affect things like that will be you know what [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► it is i think there's going to be a massively increasing number of cases in [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► which people who are innocent bystandard standards will have evidence that we've [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► useful because of digital data collection audio or video images or [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► anything else but that's also a very different thing than compelling it [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► innocent bystanders to take action to say 22 for example say this you know we [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► have reason to believe that you know some sort of crime is going to be [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► committed in this area therefore we you know that an exam tell you this is [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► exactly the path that this sort of President can go down we want the right [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► to turn on the camera and recording of every every I file it you know in range [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► of this cell power put opticon OS right and only you know here we have we know [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► it we're not saying everywhere you know anywhere and everywhere saying right [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► here in the vicinity of yeah you know whatever street in whatever street in [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► whatever city but we have good reason for it and therefore we should you know [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► when we require the ability to do this [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► that is very much within the realm of what people would ask me look that's [TS]

00:40:37 ◼   ► already happy with cars we know that law enforcement wants to get information the [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► cars look I was talking two carmakers last year about you know [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► car robots self-driving cars and the deal is like this is the thing keep [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► going back to what we are seeing today is the tip of the iceberg of data [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► collection both us watching the watchmen watch for watching us [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► and it seems like it's already ridiculous right in the future our [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► clothing has been covered with cameras I mean I'm exaggerating but like [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► everything cars are going to festoon the one of the limitations there's a point [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► at which you can have too many cameras in a car you're collecting too much [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► information that point is not been hit yet i think if the end because of [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► computational photography where you can combine images for many cameras or [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► different kinds of imagery from cameras to obtain more information like you know [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► we talked about 3d cameras on cars are really 2d stereoscopic cameras or RGB [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► plus depth and use infrared or laser for arranging that kind of information you [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► can also obtain some cases if you have more cameras you don't need the ranging [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► part is all these things are going to happen so at some point our camera so [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► you can triangulate the three-dimensional aspect of it from the [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► two different angles [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► yeah they're seeing some really some really interesting paper so at some [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► point we're going to our phones are going to recording a hundred percent of [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► time we're going to be having wearable devices if they're watching would have [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► watched whatever they're constantly ready and on recording video and audio [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► unless we disable them and everything is going to constantly recording and [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► streaming terabytes of data that's actually processed to pull out [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► information so we are going into a future with what you're describing is [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► reality there could be a continuous 3d like coverage in any area of any minimal [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► population density between nest cam style things and our phones and watches [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► and cars so what if the government wants to compel that we like 10 minutes in an [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► hour [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► hit this button in every cameras record that for the next 10 minutes and they [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► get you know terabyte of information or petabyte for that I'm could skip over [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► and skipping around a little bit but i think it applies but one of the [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► highlights i have in Apple's me yesterday was from [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► talking about this colonial law CL EA yeah i was really fast and the [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► government is sort of arguing that Scalia doesn't apply to apple in this [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► case and apple is arguing yes exactly applies to us yes it's and one of them [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► here's the passage highlighted camellias legislative history makes clear the [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► sound policy reasons behind it specific limitations on when decription services [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► can be required during congressional hearings on Clea then FBI director louis [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► freeh assured senator I would lay that's Pat Leahy from Vermont that kalia would [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► not impede the growth of new technologies when Senator Leahy asked [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► whether Clea would inhibit the growth of encryption free responded quote this [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► legislation does not ask companies to decrypt it just tells them to give us [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► the bits as they have them if they are encrypted that is my problem which is [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► what i'm saying is that yes i think that the FBI should have the rights to get [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► the contents of this suspect phone but if the contents of the phone or [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► scrambled and and the FBI is technically incapable of you know decrypting them [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► that's their problem and I don't say that to be callous I you know in terms [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► of what if in some other hypothetical case the information would actually [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► prove useful to to getting a conviction of someone who actually did something or [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► what if it was it some sort of information on a phone that they can't [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► access would have information that could prevent something in the future I mean [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► those things will happen but it-it-it there is no perfect solution [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► oh yeah I wanted to supercuts circle back about this too is we talk about the [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► political spectrum it applies directly here too is that it's hilarious to see [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► people all the way from this on the spectrum from say anarchist to you know [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► right-wing fundamentalist who are all like its absolute limit Aryan I am I [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► love that aspect is that the cryptographers cryptographic community [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► has people across the larger political spectrum and i think almost who are [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► prominent in it let's say that almost any other field of endeavor i can [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► imagine so you've got whitfield diffie you've got moxie of [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► Martin's because Mike you've got David what's the face [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► Robert for a telegram from a rather security you got people across a huge [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► spectrum right and some people come from dictatorship based societies and escape [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► them some are living in societies are becoming repressive summer in [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► democracies are sensible democracies and they're all like yeah okay maybe there's [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► different reasons are you with some people may or may not be in favor of a [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► backdoor none of them to scream over what you're saying there is no way to [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► create that and so if you're an anarchist or you know Raging repairing [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► you got the same view like that [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► can I can't be done I really enjoyed keep them pondering over my head rich [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► moguls description of it that it's sort of a cover-your-ass mentality or [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► like--he's you're seeing his words are not on my watch but its cover cover your [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► own ass because that's one way since the only way to really make sense and it's [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► yeah it's very disappointing though because it's it the implications are so [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► severe I have a feeling I'm again I could be wrong and that's why it's it's [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► nervous watching this go down I have a feeling that Apple might do well in this [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► case I think Apple I think they should it's not just because I'm hoping and [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► that I my personal preferences that Apple wins this case i actually think [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► that on the facts and based on that the law feel like that they should win [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► well there's if they had it's so bizarre it's like I there's so many different [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► bases in this brief spells out a lot of them my what the FBI department justice [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► requesting is unprecedented or in this reading and you know I've been following [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► this close never read this brief and some others in depth this one of it very [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► much in depth because it's you know kind of the Crocs right now and because the [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► FBI went to sort of name calling doj is not saying things that are just kind of [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► it's like it feels like watching someone spin out of control you like looking [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► intervention here and Obama is not your inventions apparently he's like he's [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► like being your you're codependent enabler here [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► yeah but you read this you're like look at the all writs Act has never encompass [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► this and there's plenty of evidence like any other setting a species the clea the [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► legislative history previous whatever then you have like basically every [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► person who used to be an intelligence or law enforcement was at a high level who [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► is no longer in that office thing [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► yeah like what you've done with your office once supported call me because I [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► had to like what about now like no no I mean that the interviews with Richard [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► Clark yeah Michael Hayden with you and like parks NPR review is astonishing [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► he said he's like it's called the NSA we could they could do it right [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► well that that's interesting to me now number 1 i've found that post 9-11 [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► richard clark was fine one of the most thoughtful and a truly impressive [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► individuals it you know in the US government I green especially I've been [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► a huge fan of his [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► i I can't even think of a single point that I've ever really disagreed with him [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► on I get released and he's you know open my mind to all sorts of things that I [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► had never thought of like he's exactly the sort of person who I would want to [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► be that you know who he was and who I wish we had more of a national security [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► positions so when I say I my gut feeling would be that if the FBI gave this phone [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► to the NSA I bet the NSA could could crack this phone and knows something [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► about knows a way to get in but that's just based on you know me my hunch it as [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► to what I think the NSA can do pretty much completely uninformed but just sort [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► of you know it just seems to make sense when Richard Clark says is pretty sure [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► that if you gave this phone to the NSA they could get in [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► it's like go to the cashier and put your money on on that horse [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► oh yeah what yeah anything I think anything that Apple could do to their [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► own operating system the NSA could do plus the NSA can disassemble it to like [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► a sub molecular level right i mean they're not magicians right there you [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► know they have the best people who are not working in cryptography in public [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► and private enterprise is a private enterprise rather and in public sector [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► open jobs they're working at the NSA I mean this is the thing that you I don't [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► love how our government is using the NSA and the FBI to gather information I do [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► respect the people the FBI CIA NSA are some there's some people in there are [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► many many people based on some things here are some of the smartest people on [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► the planet and they're going there because they're told look do you want to [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► work with the most interesting thing you can never talk about it maybe like four [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► decades or ever right but you're going to work [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► with the most interesting cutting-edge technology ideas and hardware and theory [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► that no one else in the world work with your gonna go there there people go [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► there they may have moral qualms predator on it doesn't enter into it or [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► they support the missions but it is a it's kind of an interesting poll right [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► so I'm sure that this so i want to talk about employment issues just for a [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► second to because this comes back to this Apple brief so let's say Apple [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► losses and is compelled alright hold that hold that thought you know where [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► you're going and it's too long of a segment I want to do i would i'm gonna [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► hold my breath you're gonna let me just say this before i do the sponsor I just [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► want to go back . this is all these are two quotes that Apple pull that you [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► reference them both but this is in it people who have come out and it almost [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► to a surprising degree and i'm impressed at some of the people who have come out [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► in favor of encryption on this but one of them is former NSA and CIA director [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► Michael Hayden that's Michael hated his quote is Apple are Americans are [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► America's more secure America's more safe with unbreakable end and encryption [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► that's that's is let me can't get more clarinet and here's Defense Secretary [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► Ashton Carter so that's it [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► crossing the line over to the Department of Defense data security including [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► encryption is absolutely essential to us [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► I'm not a believer in back doors that into me that the angle there is that it [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► gets to that that the bridge mobile thing where y is the Department of [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► Justice doing this and it's it it doesn't make any sense from a national [TS]

00:50:54 ◼   ► security perspective and that I mean at point-blank is what the these other guys [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► are saying is that from a national security perspective back doors are [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► disaster and so an apple in their brief is saying that the government is saying [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► you can't take that into consideration and apple in their brief saying I don't [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► know about the legality of the argument of whether the court should take into [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► consideration but Apple is certainly emphasizing that angle [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► alright let's take a break and we'll talk about the employment issue [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► ok I am going to tell you about our good friends at igloo you guys know igloo we [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► all struggle with productivity we're constantly under pressure to accomplish [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► more and do it faster and there's no one definitive way to accomplish that when [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► you're on a small team or small company or or or something like that so we all [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► have our own methods to make things work and we combine you know this sort of [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► chat with this file sharing and other technologies igloo can help you and your [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► team keep doing things your way [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► only better collaboration should not be painful but the glue is pure and simple [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► is an intranet that you'll actually like they have all sorts of ways to customize [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► it and get just the features that you and your team need to fill in the gaps [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► in the system you already use but it's not like when you sign up for it blew [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► you have to suddenly drop everything you're already using and do things the [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► quote igloo way not like that at all [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► igloo is just a tool kit to let you and your team keep working the way that you [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► already do just better you can sign up free of charge [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► no credit card required at igloo software.com / t TS so just go there you [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► have a team and you're struggling in any way to collaborate just go to a blue [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► software com / tts sign up for free [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► check it out and see how good it could be so my thanks to glue all right let's [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► talk about the employment issue [TS]

00:52:58 ◼   ► yeah so we're talking twitter because I had this horrible [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► ok so this gets into like Orwell territory [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► yeah at all levels like okay Snow Crash have you ever read Neal Stephenson's [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► Snow Crash embarrassed to say no at as a programmer you would love it and it's [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► all about hacking the brain but one of the themes in it without getting [TS]

00:53:16 ◼   ► spoilers to like a 20 year old book is this notion that a company wanted to [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► retain the ownership of programming code in their programmers mind so when they [TS]

00:53:24 ◼   ► left they couldn't use it elsewhere minutes i'm paraphrasing [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► had this thought I Rinus Appaloosas this case the court says you compels them to [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► write what they're calling you know God GOG government govt TOS i'm picturing [TS]

00:53:39 ◼   ► this meeting tim cook in a room with like 200 people and it's everybody at [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► Apple capable of working on the sizes all right you know what's happened [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► the order has been given we are going to but we always know we're gonna try to [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► appeal it but right now we have been able to stay we need you to do this and [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► we can't order anyone to do it we can we've been ordered [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► but you were all individuals and this needs to happen like what what are those [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► people do one of those people do and what does the court do if all 200 of [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► them suddenly quit and what is Tim do for those people if they suddenly quit I [TS]

00:54:13 ◼   ► mean I just thinking you can't you can order Apple to do something but [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► employees are at well none of the executives can do this they need [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► specific employees in the engineering level what what happens i also wonder [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► just how many engineers at Apple would be capable of doing this now capable you [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► can obviously hire somebody new and it provides them with the source code and [TS]

00:54:39 ◼   ► let them study it and study the way the entire system works long enough and [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► somebody who's obviously not even employed by apple today could eventually [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► become capable of doing it so it's you know it i'm not saying it's impossible [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► but I wonder how many people within Apple would be on the team that would be [TS]

00:54:58 ◼   ► commissioned to undertake this I don't know that it's 200 i think it's probably [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► a significantly lower number of people who work in the area of system-level [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► device security so is it Daniel gelcoat used to work at a pond years ago he [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► apple i think it's he say something response this was like he said there [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► might be a hundred people in the world maybe I'm exaggerating number something [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► nice to look small but it was is right it's not that other people could get [TS]

00:55:25 ◼   ► something other people can't get up to speed but in order to the then they have [TS]

00:55:30 ◼   ► to hire other people and it's not even issue of morals like I have to wonder [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► what is your career like inside Apple if you're the gallery guy who says she's [TS]

00:55:38 ◼   ► not sure whatever the government wants like you do the government OS [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► and it's delivered missed him say thanks for helping us obey the court order and [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► you have no future with us could you be fired for complete for being a good [TS]

00:55:51 ◼   ► employee could you put on in Siberia and sent to an Alaskan out posted Apple to [TS]

00:55:57 ◼   ► work on projects there i don't know it's it it's easy to outside you know Ted [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► just abstracted somebody with an apple can do it apple has got a lot of money [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► in the last smart people they can do it but at some level it come it will if it [TS]

00:56:12 ◼   ► ever if this came to pass it would come down to individuals and I think they [TS]

00:56:17 ◼   ► have to make a decision and dance for security purposes it would be better to [TS]

00:56:20 ◼   ► have it be as few people as possible [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► I've often thought about this i wonder what Apple's security policies are for [TS]

00:56:28 ◼   ► hiring people to work on stuff like this like how do you think about I mean how [TS]

00:56:33 ◼   ► do they make sure that a secret agent for you know [TS]

00:56:38 ◼   ► china isn't isn't applying to be an engineer on iOS who would place a [TS]

00:56:44 ◼   ► backdoor I mean it and it sounds like it start thinking it sounds like something [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► out of a you know james bond movie or something like that but stuff like that [TS]

00:56:51 ◼   ► has happened right there have been back doors placed in remember the openssl 10 [TS]

00:57:00 ◼   ► yeah heartbleed well Hartley was up there edge so many and I you know I [TS]

00:57:04 ◼   ► don't even want to blame China i think that there's a strong suspicion that it [TS]

00:57:08 ◼   ► was the US government who served is asleep laced a back door in and like an [TS]

00:57:13 ◼   ► ssl library that was you know we understand there's some purposely what [TS]

00:57:17 ◼   ► seems he purposely we can encryption that is t seem to have some interaction [TS]

00:57:22 ◼   ► within the VPN software libraries [TS]

00:57:26 ◼   ► no it's not implausible I mean this is a thing like what really drives the world [TS]

00:57:30 ◼   ► is not spy craft in terms of state-run espionage it some industrial espionage [TS]

00:57:35 ◼   ► is a huge thing it's huge happens continuously this is not like a movie [TS]

00:57:39 ◼   ► thing it's there are people working inside companies constantly selling [TS]

00:57:43 ◼   ► secrets to competitors and what do you think we need for them [TS]

00:57:46 ◼   ► what do you do when somebody a very talented programmer [TS]

00:57:50 ◼   ► yeah with a security background who without lying about their employee [TS]

00:57:56 ◼   ► history at all but has spent you know like eight years working for the NSA [TS]

00:57:59 ◼   ► applies to work on that security had a few laughs but if they're not if they're [TS]

00:58:06 ◼   ► being honest it could be a tremendous higher and we did I tell you the story [TS]

00:58:10 ◼   ► ready i once met guys from the CIA print shop and they said we gave the business [TS]

00:58:13 ◼   ► cards and they said we have business cards we can't give them to you [TS]

00:58:16 ◼   ► we should you're serious they said yeah we kinda outside the building so like [TS]

00:58:20 ◼   ► how do you get a reference from the NSA for your job at apple do I don't know [TS]

00:58:25 ◼   ► but you know but what you know it i it must occur to them you know and it's not [TS]

00:58:32 ◼   ► anyway that's we're getting off the point of what happens if everybody who [TS]

00:58:35 ◼   ► works at apple refuses to do this and and I or even isn't this a majority like [TS]

00:58:40 ◼   ► you need I mean I said 200 probably because it's like project managers and [TS]

00:58:43 ◼   ► like those people who have the expertise and there's the people who support those [TS]

00:58:46 ◼   ► people and people i mean who has the key who has the codes that give them access [TS]

00:58:51 ◼   ► to like the root certificates that are used all this stuff involves a very [TS]

00:58:56 ◼   ► small number of people but what if they all I mean look at you and I were that [TS]

00:59:00 ◼   ► position I think we know we do we quit right quick and then can the government [TS]

00:59:04 ◼   ► compelling could the government courts say you're not allowed to quit right I I [TS]

00:59:08 ◼   ► can't imagine but could that I don't know the legality and it's even easier [TS]

00:59:12 ◼   ► in today's the current job market in in Silicon Valley know it is you know it's [TS]

00:59:19 ◼   ► like I'm being I just want to be out all day that I'm not even trying to say that [TS]

00:59:23 ◼   ► it's an act of nobility it would be I would like to think and and and i would [TS]

00:59:28 ◼   ► like to think that I would act on principle but if you just want to get [TS]

00:59:32 ◼   ► down to the cold hard facts of well you know you've got a mortgage to pay and [TS]

00:59:37 ◼   ► kids to put through college or whatever it's like somebody who has extensive [TS]

00:59:40 ◼   ► experience on Apple's security team is not going to have a hard time getting [TS]

00:59:44 ◼   ► another job now absolutely not right they probably get like $MONEY [TS]

00:59:47 ◼   ► million-dollar bonuses that are still being handled handed out when they go to [TS]

00:59:49 ◼   ► work for one of the unicorn right and it might break the heart because maybe they [TS]

00:59:52 ◼   ► prefer to work at Apple but we know rather do good work for Google than do [TS]

00:59:56 ◼   ► destructive work for apple i mean it's it's it it to me [TS]

00:59:56 ◼   ► destructive work for apple i mean it's it's it it to me [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► is not an Outland just said scenario at all and i do think i do think i think [TS]

01:00:06 ◼   ► that people who work in encryption it's like you said that it spans the [TS]

01:00:09 ◼   ► political game and that's one of the things that I really like about this is [TS]

01:00:12 ◼   ► that in in what I you know in my sideline as a amateur art Twitter [TS]

01:00:17 ◼   ► political columnist I one of the things that depresses me about the current [TS]

01:00:23 ◼   ► state of decades long discourse in the United States is the polarization of of [TS]

01:00:28 ◼   ► politics and that so many issues are so clearly polarized and that we've we've [TS]

01:00:33 ◼   ► self sorted on these various lines into the two parties and that there's no [TS]

01:00:40 ◼   ► interchange between III it does my heart it warms my heart that on this [TS]

01:00:45 ◼   ► particular issue it that it doesn't fall on on one line or the other and if [TS]

01:00:51 ◼   ► anything because the DOJ is part of the executive branch you have I would have [TS]

01:00:56 ◼   ► to say that you know the Democrats have more responsibility in this case with [TS]

01:01:00 ◼   ► Apple than the Republicans I mean there certainly are Republicans who I've seen [TS]

01:01:04 ◼   ► call for apple should just open the iphone [TS]

01:01:07 ◼   ► oh yeah but you so I'm sure you watch the John Oliver so I guess on with yet [TS]

01:01:11 ◼   ► brilliant the Lindsey Graham thing i didn't realize Lindsey Graham had [TS]

01:01:14 ◼   ► recanted his position to watch Lindsey Graham say up I was wrong [TS]

01:01:17 ◼   ► I've been better informed now you're like coming to Jesus moment he can be [TS]

01:01:21 ◼   ► convinced then [TS]

01:01:23 ◼   ► wow I mean I know he's got the easy side also of you know they want to support [TS]

01:01:27 ◼   ► law and order which is a basic fundamental GOP stance but he also can [TS]

01:01:32 ◼   ► be opposing the event Obama administration by doing so even with [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► that I I was just like oh my god well they they gotta explain it to him and he [TS]

01:01:40 ◼   ► accepted the logical was explained right i think Darrell is a who I generally [TS]

01:01:45 ◼   ► disagree with oh god I was a sweet i retweeted him today on the CC he's so [TS]

01:01:50 ◼   ► right in some places and he's he understand to a certain degree i mean i [TS]

01:01:54 ◼   ► know he had a background in technology before you got into politics but at [TS]

01:01:57 ◼   ► least at the layman's understanding that you would hope that our legislators [TS]

01:02:02 ◼   ► would have he's got it he is sweet [TS]

01:02:05 ◼   ► he's been really good I here's an interesting just a side note get back to [TS]

01:02:11 ◼   ► 1776 this is a musical podcast now [TS]

01:02:13 ◼   ► that's the bit so imagine you're the engineer at apple or set of Engineers [TS]

01:02:17 ◼   ► and you're the people who write the code that's been compelled by the government [TS]

01:02:21 ◼   ► to essentially the tray humanity [TS]

01:02:24 ◼   ► I mean comes tablets that I'm not even exaggerating the case in 1776 musical it [TS]

01:02:28 ◼   ► draws on there no apparent records that just around came from the Continental [TS]

01:02:33 ◼   ► Congress because they were worried about being intercepted all kinds of stuff [TS]

01:02:36 ◼   ► there's 1776 a re-creation from later remembrances of people and other sources [TS]

01:02:41 ◼   ► there's a judge judge Wilson is from the Pennsylvania delegation so it's you got [TS]

01:02:46 ◼   ► dickinson one side as opposed to waiting for dependency of franklin on the other [TS]

01:02:49 ◼   ► is for it [TS]

01:02:50 ◼   ► this is a key vote Wilson who had supported dickinson I sort of moderation [TS]

01:02:55 ◼   ► changes essentially last-minute declares himself its dramatic moment in the [TS]

01:03:00 ◼   ► musical but it's also essentially what happened in reality here's the thing he [TS]

01:03:04 ◼   ► didn't want to be this is the motivation given to him he didn't want to be the [TS]

01:03:07 ◼   ► person who killed Liberty he wanted to be kind of you know under-the-radar and [TS]

01:03:12 ◼   ► it's like everyone remember judge Wilson as the person who killed American [TS]

01:03:17 ◼   ► liberty you know and you think about that the programmers you like maybe 20 [TS]

01:03:21 ◼   ► people or 15 people on the team that do it and you're the people who killed [TS]

01:03:24 ◼   ► encryption for everybody [TS]

01:03:27 ◼   ► how do you do that that's a traumatic thing you'll be put through if you have [TS]

01:03:30 ◼   ► that kind of conscience right there's a personal security angle here and apple [TS]

01:03:36 ◼   ► has mentioned this in there i think in a brief but if not a brief certainly in [TS]

01:03:41 ◼   ► the one of the supplements you know there's the testimony from craig [TS]

01:03:46 ◼   ► federighi and and yeah [TS]

01:03:48 ◼   ► I forget the guys name that has got big long name that starts with an n sorry [TS]

01:03:54 ◼   ► it's a Eric annoying fonder right now [TS]

01:04:00 ◼   ► yeah that's interminably it's a big long-term Germanic name and and but part [TS]

01:04:06 ◼   ► of it is that there's a personal security angle to this where right now [TS]

01:04:11 ◼   ► nobody knows how to create as Apple calls it government OS version of OS [TS]

01:04:17 ◼   ► that you can install on top of an existing iphone without destroying it [TS]

01:04:21 ◼   ► some crazed and then bypass the the protections against the touchpad which [TS]

01:04:28 ◼   ► once you get rid of those protections it's easy [TS]

01:04:31 ◼   ► Amy and and it obviously using a long alphanumeric password or passphrase i [TS]

01:04:38 ◼   ► guess i should say would actually you know would significantly help increase [TS]

01:04:42 ◼   ► the security of your phone but even the six digit passcode it would take longer [TS]

01:04:48 ◼   ► to brute force but once you bypass the protections you know you're talking [TS]

01:04:52 ◼   ► about like days or weeks not [TS]

01:04:55 ◼   ► yeah you know years it there are jailbreaks for the phone zero-day you [TS]

01:05:03 ◼   ► know what are the zero-day exploits there hit that have been sold on the [TS]

01:05:06 ◼   ► open market and if there's one that sold for like over a million dollars last [TS]

01:05:10 ◼   ► year like a way to you know that good at security form put out like a bounty and [TS]

01:05:16 ◼   ► said if you can get us into you know a jailbreaker on an iphone that under the [TS]

01:05:24 ◼   ► following conditions like let's say like just by sending the text message or just [TS]

01:05:28 ◼   ► by opening this URL in safari sold for like a million dollars [TS]

01:05:34 ◼   ► can you imagine what the black market value of government OS would be it again [TS]

01:05:41 ◼   ► it's not just sounds like we're talking about cloak-and-dagger you know James [TS]

01:05:44 ◼   ► Bond Jason Bourne movie stuff but it's not it's real right did but imagine if [TS]

01:05:51 ◼   ► the identities of the engineers at Apple who knew how to make it and knew how to [TS]

01:05:56 ◼   ► you know knew the details of it [TS]

01:06:00 ◼   ► it would put them in some measure of personal risk it really i mean i think [TS]

01:06:05 ◼   ► this right now they must be to imagine if you have some rest secrets i'm sure [TS]

01:06:09 ◼   ► those people already Apple security must already have eyes on them both from the [TS]

01:06:14 ◼   ► perspective and the dangerous side like are these people going off to do stuff [TS]

01:06:18 ◼   ► you probably watched but also someone trying to kidnap imagine if your [TS]

01:06:21 ◼   ► family's kidnapping you know how to do whatever it's kind of why it you're like [TS]

01:06:25 ◼   ► yeah here's the key [TS]

01:06:26 ◼   ► I mean and that's just now before government os's is built right [TS]

01:06:30 ◼   ► Apple has made the analogy and I think this you know this comes to you know the [TS]

01:06:37 ◼   ► way that the bill of rights to meet you know protects it acts of your conscience [TS]

01:06:43 ◼   ► you know I mean that's a big part of what the First Amendment is about Apple [TS]

01:06:51 ◼   ► has made the analogy to like a bit what it could have pharmaceutical company be [TS]

01:06:56 ◼   ► forced to produce the serum for a lethal injection which is a real word world [TS]

01:07:01 ◼   ► political problem right now we have that is not a political either right where [TS]

01:07:05 ◼   ► the the states in the united states that still have the death penalty because [TS]

01:07:11 ◼   ► it's been banned in the rest of the civilized world and is only you know [TS]

01:07:18 ◼   ► it's really only practiced in the first world in the United States and only then [TS]

01:07:21 ◼   ► in certain states the company you know whatever they used to use to to give [TS]

01:07:26 ◼   ► people the lethal injection there's no more of the serum you're not getting [TS]

01:07:30 ◼   ► really know you want me really uncomfortable about their BuzzFeed has [TS]

01:07:34 ◼   ► had some really amazing coverage about this people selling drugs from india and [TS]

01:07:39 ◼   ► so forth fascinating and the state's refusing to disclose information that [TS]

01:07:43 ◼   ► they should be about whether obtaining the drugs from right all right I will [TS]

01:07:46 ◼   ► look that up BuzzFeed's really cool injections right because can you can-can [TS]

01:07:52 ◼   ► estate get you know this is getting off into the weeds on on the death penalty [TS]

01:07:56 ◼   ► but can estate use a substance to put a prisoner to death isn't like [TS]

01:08:02 ◼   ► fda-approved and why wouldn't you know it gets out of the question of wine [TS]

01:08:05 ◼   ► world with the FDA approved a substance that there [TS]

01:08:08 ◼   ► that kills people but well so so good but apples question stands could the all [TS]

01:08:13 ◼   ► writs Act be used for if the kid the government say okay we don't have [TS]

01:08:18 ◼   ► anymore this stuff let's go to let's go to Pfizer and compel pfizer to come up [TS]

01:08:24 ◼   ► with a serum that would have the following quote qualities you know that [TS]

01:08:29 ◼   ► it's you know painless and put you to death [TS]

01:08:33 ◼   ► yeah what this is a think one of the great arguments i think it's very [TS]

01:08:36 ◼   ► directly related to what you're talking about here is Apple trying to show what [TS]

01:08:41 ◼   ► i think is they'd like to say settled law that code is speech and other people [TS]

01:08:46 ◼   ► maybe less secure in that I think it's pretty settled i think the Supreme Court [TS]

01:08:49 ◼   ► has really made that clear and the FBI and DOJ would like to say that code is [TS]

01:08:54 ◼   ► not speech when it's functional code there's a thing where apples are pretty [TS]

01:08:57 ◼   ► killing the FBI sprays right in the brief there's no such thing as [TS]

01:09:00 ◼   ► functional code all code is the same thing so you cannot can split that it's [TS]

01:09:04 ◼   ► unconstitutional to compelled speech that is practically i am pretty sure [TS]

01:09:10 ◼   ► that is an overriding principle i'm not a constitutional lawyer i'm not sure but [TS]

01:09:13 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure I keep reading what you cannot compel speech no court can compel [TS]

01:09:16 ◼   ► speech it can compel you to testify or it can paralyze you for not testifying [TS]

01:09:21 ◼   ► for not providing information but you cannot compel someone to speech and you [TS]

01:09:25 ◼   ► cannot compel a programmer to program few of the wise twitter twitter mirrors [TS]

01:09:29 ◼   ► were saying women it if corporations are people can you compel corporations to [TS]

01:09:34 ◼   ► speech given that they are now we know under citizens united and other girl [TS]

01:09:37 ◼   ► thinks should have essentially the same right so can you compel Apple to speech [TS]

01:09:42 ◼   ► of that involves code even that's the thing about this brief is Apple's [TS]

01:09:45 ◼   ► hacking away at many many many different uh no trees with poison fruit and I [TS]

01:09:50 ◼   ► think the code of speech was very compelling even if the all writs one [TS]

01:09:53 ◼   ► which is also compelling falls down [TS]

01:09:56 ◼   ► yes i agree on both of those parts that to me that's that's the main thrust of [TS]

01:10:00 ◼   ► apples twofold argument is that they can't be compelled to do this because [TS]

01:10:06 ◼   ► it's speech and it's deeply offensive to to apple and the employees who would be [TS]

01:10:10 ◼   ► you know subject to carry it out and that the all writs Act cannot be used to [TS]

01:10:16 ◼   ► compel extraordinary action [TS]

01:10:18 ◼   ► and to me that's when you read the government thing and if you almost feel [TS]

01:10:21 ◼   ► bad for the lawyers who wrote the government's brief because it's I don't [TS]

01:10:26 ◼   ► think it was their decision to it's not like James Comey had to write the brief [TS]

01:10:29 ◼   ► it's not like Loretta Lynch the Attorney General wrote the brief it's like it got [TS]

01:10:34 ◼   ► assigned to these you know the two lawyers who wrote it and I almost feel [TS]

01:10:39 ◼   ► bad for them because i feel like it's like when you're you know that's what [TS]

01:10:42 ◼   ► it's like to be a lawyer you don't necessarily don't get to pick the side [TS]

01:10:45 ◼   ► you know I mean like like they might know there they might well know that [TS]

01:10:49 ◼   ► their arguments stands on nothing but thin air but they still gotta write the [TS]

01:10:53 ◼   ► brief there left arguing at the the government is left trying to argue [TS]

01:10:58 ◼   ► because they know that they all writs Act is supposed to fill in the gaps of [TS]

01:11:03 ◼   ► statutory law so they left trying to argue that the use of the already [TS]

01:11:08 ◼   ► attacked here isn't compelling Apple to do something extraordinary but it's it's [TS]

01:11:13 ◼   ► really really hard to do that you know and and adjust of it is that the alright [TS]

01:11:17 ◼   ► I've you know for people who are you know aren't paying attention that all [TS]

01:11:21 ◼   ► rataxes supposed to fill in the gaps that isn't covered by existing law so if [TS]

01:11:26 ◼   ► there's a law that says this and law that says that but there's a minor issue [TS]

01:11:29 ◼   ► that's in between there the all writs Act fills it in and I think one of the [TS]

01:11:33 ◼   ► examples the government gave is that somebody can be compelled to give [TS]

01:11:38 ◼   ► testimony in court like you said mom what if their testimony will take three [TS]

01:11:44 ◼   ► days [TS]

01:11:45 ◼   ► what where do they go right and so maybe there's no law that says that the all [TS]

01:11:49 ◼   ► writs Act would fill it in and that the government can just do what's reasonable [TS]

01:11:52 ◼   ► and put the guy up in a hotel you know the government will put you up in a [TS]

01:11:55 ◼   ► hotel for three days so you still have to testify for the full three days but [TS]

01:11:59 ◼   ► even if there's no law that says that when a you know that says when a witness [TS]

01:12:03 ◼   ► has to testify for more than one day the government will put them up in a hotel [TS]

01:12:06 ◼   ► it's just that the all writs Act can fill in and and fill in the gap in the [TS]

01:12:10 ◼   ► situation like that Apple's argument and I think it's extremely compelling is [TS]

01:12:16 ◼   ► that it if the government wants to compel a company to do what they're [TS]

01:12:20 ◼   ► saying they want Apple to do it has to be passed through legislation you have [TS]

01:12:24 ◼   ► to pass a law that says yes [TS]

01:12:26 ◼   ► in this case you would have to do this [TS]

01:12:28 ◼   ► because otherwise you're at you know it because it's an extraordinary thing any [TS]

01:12:33 ◼   ► other analogies I thought about and I want to see what you think about this [TS]

01:12:37 ◼   ► but so for example famously I think it's the sixties i might be getting the time [TS]

01:12:42 ◼   ► wrong but when ralph nader wrote the what was the book unsafe at any speed [TS]

01:12:49 ◼   ► yeah about the horrible state of a car crash safety at you know that and wanted [TS]

01:12:59 ◼   ► to legislate that in order to get car companies to mandate that they put seat [TS]

01:13:04 ◼   ► belts in cars and the car industry pushed back against mandatory seatbelts [TS]

01:13:10 ◼   ► under the argument that putting seat belts in cars made cars look unsafe that [TS]

01:13:17 ◼   ► if you got up right now this is true i'm making the river god [TS]

01:13:21 ◼   ► alright so they said no we don't know this is not a good idea because it you [TS]

01:13:25 ◼   ► know people love driving cars and they feel safe and happy driving cars but if [TS]

01:13:29 ◼   ► you go in there and there's the safety harnesses you know safety belts it's [TS]

01:13:33 ◼   ► going to make people think that they're dangerous [TS]

01:13:36 ◼   ► that's not it it sounds silly in hindsight and we have now have a lot of [TS]

01:13:41 ◼   ► statistics that backup that it's you know obviously hasn't stopped Americans [TS]

01:13:45 ◼   ► from driving and we have statistics to prove that they're you know that safety [TS]

01:13:48 ◼   ► advances that have been mandated have been tremendous Boone's to to public [TS]

01:13:51 ◼   ► safety but it's not a ridiculous argument it's not ridiculous that that [TS]

01:13:56 ◼   ► that the logic of the car manufacturers it it was probably wrong but that didn't [TS]

01:14:02 ◼   ► it it didn't happen through the all writs Act it happened throughout you [TS]

01:14:06 ◼   ► know real legislation passed through Congress that man ended things like this [TS]

01:14:11 ◼   ► and that's the way it should be and the other now Jack and think of this isn't [TS]

01:14:15 ◼   ► national it's all gone [TS]

01:14:17 ◼   ► local like state by state and city by city but one of the great things of of [TS]

01:14:23 ◼   ► my lifetime as someone who really really has always been bothered by cigarette [TS]

01:14:27 ◼   ► smoke is the passing of laws that that get cigarettes out of bars and [TS]

01:14:33 ◼   ► restaurants and our workplaces and stuff like that [TS]

01:14:35 ◼   ► now it was a common common and rip oft-repeated refrain [TS]

01:14:40 ◼   ► especially from bar owners that if you made smoking illegal and bars it would [TS]

01:14:44 ◼   ► draw it with business would dry up because people who smoked would go to [TS]

01:14:48 ◼   ► private establishments instead of public ones because they're not going to stop [TS]

01:14:52 ◼   ► smoking while they drink and there it did common sense that says that that [TS]

01:14:58 ◼   ► argument might hold water right it might there's there's some logic to that I and [TS]

01:15:04 ◼   ► again that it this wasn't done through the all writs Act it was you have to [TS]

01:15:09 ◼   ► pass an actual law and fight and make that argument and listen to the people [TS]

01:15:14 ◼   ► the bar owners arguing and now I picked both of those examples the seatbelt [TS]

01:15:18 ◼   ► mandatory seatbelts and the the getting cigarettes out of bars and restaurants i [TS]

01:15:23 ◼   ► pick those specifically because i know that those arguments are on the wrong [TS]

01:15:27 ◼   ► side right that it's it is my opinion it's correct that seat belts and and you [TS]

01:15:34 ◼   ► know other safety devices and chrono stay very high standards for craft [TS]

01:15:39 ◼   ► survivability are good idea and that I think it's a very good idea for public [TS]

01:15:43 ◼   ► health that cigarettes are are not our band most restaurants and bars now but I [TS]

01:15:49 ◼   ► still think that it was right that they had to pass legislation to do it so in [TS]

01:15:55 ◼   ► this case to me with Apple being on the right side it's even more important that [TS]

01:15:58 ◼   ► if you want to force them to do this terrible thing that you have to fight it [TS]

01:16:02 ◼   ► out in the legislature yeah I think you're absolutely right those are great [TS]

01:16:07 ◼   ► examples and we can also get to like gun control is part of this issue too is [TS]

01:16:12 ◼   ► like what can be done under regulations existing regulations in force and what [TS]

01:16:17 ◼   ► requires lost we passed and whatever side you are about the you know how many [TS]

01:16:22 ◼   ► guns should be out there going to be out there all in private hands whatever the [TS]

01:16:25 ◼   ► side you are i think i would argue i would rather have a legislative solution [TS]

01:16:28 ◼   ► than a regulatory one even regulatory one might be better [TS]

01:16:33 ◼   ► whether that's for allowing broader gun ownership or narrower ownership because [TS]

01:16:37 ◼   ► without the legislative solution an executive make a decision it doesn't [TS]

01:16:41 ◼   ► lack that consensus so we have the same situation here is like do you want the [TS]

01:16:45 ◼   ► government to use a 240 something year old law with [TS]

01:16:50 ◼   ► extranged logic to upset the future of privacy education protection when the [TS]

01:16:57 ◼   ► clea more recently addressed it or didn't address it in specific ways or do [TS]

01:17:01 ◼   ► you want legislators you know regardless again of who which political parties in [TS]

01:17:05 ◼   ► charge is not actually a political issue in that sense it's a political issue of [TS]

01:17:09 ◼   ► how this would be addressed in a comprehensive way through a process that [TS]

01:17:13 ◼   ► has various you know the three branches of government in the checks and balances [TS]

01:17:17 ◼   ► I don't really want an executive agency to push through something like this and [TS]

01:17:21 ◼   ► you know I despite having a minute i voted for obama gets twice and but i [TS]

01:17:25 ◼   ► don't really like the extensive use of presidential orders executive orders and [TS]

01:17:29 ◼   ► regulatory moves that he's using I understand why he's doing it [TS]

01:17:33 ◼   ► I don't think there is long-lasting and I don't think they're I mean I know [TS]

01:17:36 ◼   ► where the middle intransigence and you had with gridlock you have to try things [TS]

01:17:40 ◼   ► and it's so forth so I understand whether being done but they wanted the [TS]

01:17:43 ◼   ► lasting effect they want they don't indicate a change of policy where [TS]

01:17:46 ◼   ► something like the Affordable Care Act they were able to actually get that [TS]

01:17:49 ◼   ► passed it became law and you see how implacable it is to resistance and look [TS]

01:17:54 ◼   ► at the supreme court chief justice voting in favor surprising everyone in [TS]

01:18:00 ◼   ► favor of ACA under the Commerce Clause and you know all these decisions that [TS]

01:18:04 ◼   ► have come through where the AC I had a cas had some the you know fall back [TS]

01:18:08 ◼   ► mostly been upheld because it was law as opposed to regulatory interpretation or [TS]

01:18:16 ◼   ► strain regulatory interpretation presidential order so and a lot of [TS]

01:18:19 ◼   ► presidential orders recently have been thrown down by the courts at various [TS]

01:18:22 ◼   ► levels and and well in some have not been upheld so far I'm you went to gun [TS]

01:18:26 ◼   ► so i'll i'll go too high no cons like it was very but I think you did I thought I [TS]

01:18:30 ◼   ► hopefully I think we've done so in a way that is amenable to anybody on either [TS]

01:18:34 ◼   ► side issue i'm gonna go to abortion and ruth bader ginsburg Ruth Bader guess the [TS]

01:18:39 ◼   ► game we're playing guns abortion all writs Act Ruth Bader Ginsburg has argued [TS]

01:18:45 ◼   ► and I think surprising many people long argued and from before she was on the [TS]

01:18:50 ◼   ► Supreme Court I think it was a paper she wrote that kind of got her to the [TS]

01:18:53 ◼   ► supreme court ruling that this right that that roe v wade was actually a [TS]

01:18:58 ◼   ► setback [TS]

01:19:00 ◼   ► in the long run for abortion rights because it was a sweeping change by the [TS]

01:19:06 ◼   ► Supreme Court and rather than letting it work its way through the legislative [TS]

01:19:12 ◼   ► branch which would have given it a lot more that things work out better and are [TS]

01:19:18 ◼   ► more broadly accepted when they go through the legislature then when the [TS]

01:19:23 ◼   ► judiciary passes takes takes matters into its own hands and again not I don't [TS]

01:19:29 ◼   ► even want to just don't even want to touch on this side of which way it [TS]

01:19:32 ◼   ► should go in a pretty clear my my views on it or no but it doesn't matter though [TS]

01:19:38 ◼   ► I think that the basic argument though that if that roe v wade has remained [TS]

01:19:42 ◼   ► controversial in a way that a legislative solution which the US was [TS]

01:19:46 ◼   ► probably heading to at the time in the seventies would have had more staying [TS]

01:19:51 ◼   ► power [TS]

01:19:52 ◼   ► it's almost remarkable to the extent that roe v wade is remains so [TS]

01:19:56 ◼   ► radioactively controversial 40-some years later 40-44 years later that a [TS]

01:20:06 ◼   ► forty-four-year-old supreme court decision is is still considered [TS]

01:20:09 ◼   ► contentious is it you know shows the the logic of of Ginsburg art Ginsburg's [TS]

01:20:16 ◼   ► argument I I have to agree with that too is right it does not matter what your [TS]

01:20:20 ◼   ► stance on abortion a legislative decision that was made and carried out [TS]

01:20:24 ◼   ► at a national level and then enforced and refined by Supreme Court rulings [TS]

01:20:29 ◼   ► that narrow door or broaden and on more limited grounds people would be arguing [TS]

01:20:33 ◼   ► about it in it in a different way because they would have felt like the [TS]

01:20:37 ◼   ► price you know they would be looking to overturn the law as opposed to trying to [TS]

01:20:41 ◼   ► figure out how to change a constitutional president right and maybe [TS]

01:20:44 ◼   ► ultimately would become enshrined as a constitutional president you would have [TS]

01:20:46 ◼   ► had you know a row law and the law having passed I think in the seventies I [TS]

01:20:52 ◼   ► think the GOP and Democratic Party the time I think we easily have passed a law [TS]

01:20:57 ◼   ► that i think i actually think it would have not been [TS]

01:21:02 ◼   ► that difficult to produce consensus then so let's say that happens you gotta roll [TS]

01:21:07 ◼   ► law and then some row based decisions later that refined it that you know [TS]

01:21:12 ◼   ► people would still be debating but we still be active but that wouldn't be [TS]

01:21:14 ◼   ► this notion that it could be a just a small tweak in the composition the court [TS]

01:21:18 ◼   ► would change this for everyone because you would have to get the law of return [TS]

01:21:22 ◼   ► or you'd have to have a radically different Supreme Court interpretation [TS]

01:21:25 ◼   ► and that's an ongoing issue in accordance with the critiques of Scalia [TS]

01:21:28 ◼   ► as an original list is that he wasn't as an original list he didn't care about [TS]

01:21:33 ◼   ► President as much as pristine courts did and you can see the liberal and some [TS]

01:21:37 ◼   ► conservative justices going off on rejecting on the fact that decisions [TS]

01:21:42 ◼   ► overturned sometimes relatively recent presidents which is not historically the [TS]

01:21:48 ◼   ► case it's usually long periods of time before presidents are returned by one go [TS]

01:21:51 ◼   ► from one court to another right so yeah I think you're I mean it's so in this [TS]

01:21:55 ◼   ► case let's say it's AI think Congress addressing it [TS]

01:21:58 ◼   ► and interestingly giving Congress has approached this I wouldn't be surprised [TS]

01:22:01 ◼   ► if Congress could reach consensus maybe not this one but the next one about the [TS]

01:22:06 ◼   ► direction it should take that would not be as Extreme as the administration's [TS]

01:22:10 ◼   ► position and would not require this level of action if it did then you might [TS]

01:22:15 ◼   ► have a constitutional issue if they try to enshrine with the FBI is trying to as [TS]

01:22:20 ◼   ► regulatory action [TS]

01:22:22 ◼   ► the big difference here like we just mentioned a few minutes ago though is [TS]

01:22:25 ◼   ► that on abortion it's clearly polarized between the two parties admit of the [TS]

01:22:31 ◼   ► rovi wait only exacerbated that this issue this issue of encryption it [TS]

01:22:36 ◼   ► splendidly so is crosses the political spectrum and I almost wonder whether if [TS]

01:22:42 ◼   ► if the DOJ wins this case against apple [TS]

01:22:46 ◼   ► whether that actually polarizes Congress to pass a law to enshrine the right to [TS]

01:22:58 ◼   ► strong encryption not be interesting left-to-right could join hands around [TS]

01:23:02 ◼   ► the side that's that's always a good that it might but it might be the like [TS]

01:23:06 ◼   ► losing in court might inspire Congress to do that in a way that not having [TS]

01:23:12 ◼   ► picked this fight at all the FBI might have been better off you know from their [TS]

01:23:16 ◼   ► desire wrong had a desire to to to keep these devices as accessible as possible [TS]

01:23:21 ◼   ► because the other thing to the thing that's cross-platform the other thing [TS]

01:23:25 ◼   ► that is definitely cross-platform and it's just common sense but it's easy to [TS]

01:23:28 ◼   ► overlook is that that branches of government that are three branches of [TS]

01:23:36 ◼   ► government you don't take well to the interpretation of their powers by [TS]

01:23:42 ◼   ► another branch so like you said but a president obama has taken and bush did [TS]

01:23:49 ◼   ► too but both of them in the face of opposition in Congress have taken two [TS]

01:23:54 ◼   ► executive orders and Congress whatever the order is regardless of it does not [TS]

01:24:00 ◼   ► take poorly does not take well to that and i think that when when the [TS]

01:24:05 ◼   ► legislature when the when the judicial branch when a judge passes dar makes in [TS]

01:24:10 ◼   ► order that Congress sees as that should be something that we decide it doesn't [TS]

01:24:16 ◼   ► matter what the issue is it it just stiffened their spine is a bristle and I [TS]

01:24:20 ◼   ► think rightly so that's sort of the way the system is designed to work [TS]

01:24:24 ◼   ► yeah and yeah it's true I think I mean we can take this to from the legislature [TS]

01:24:28 ◼   ► to the people right we keep bringing these things [TS]

01:24:30 ◼   ► polls show that you know the support for apple the FBI evenly split and like all [TS]

01:24:34 ◼   ► right let's see what questions you ask the questions are too big i would like [TS]

01:24:38 ◼   ► to see this question asked in a like a be testing so one case you say should [TS]

01:24:41 ◼   ► Apple give the FBI the contents of the phone or whatever the questions are the [TS]

01:24:45 ◼   ► task yes now and our the phrase right [TS]

01:24:47 ◼   ► the other is should the FBI be allowed with legal warrant from a judge to [TS]

01:24:52 ◼   ► access your phone anytime they deem there's a legal necessity for and [TS]

01:24:58 ◼   ► obtain all the contents absolutely in plain text you want some more of that I [TS]

01:25:03 ◼   ► think you get a different response if he said he said you know should judge allow [TS]

01:25:07 ◼   ► the FBI to examine the contents your phone anytime [TS]

01:25:10 ◼   ► well and I got any time but for it goodnight criminal action with a warrant [TS]

01:25:15 ◼   ► it's really hard to pull too because it's because it's easy for a lay person [TS]

01:25:21 ◼   ► to believe in the magic solution of a way for the F for the government to get [TS]

01:25:26 ◼   ► in but nobody else that only the government you know which you kind of [TS]

01:25:31 ◼   ► have to be to gently informed of the basic way that encryption works to [TS]

01:25:38 ◼   ► understand just how do you know how dangerous and an impossible it is to say [TS]

01:25:42 ◼   ► the only people who can get in our the US federal government with the warrant [TS]

01:25:47 ◼   ► it just doesn't work that way once you create you know once you create a [TS]

01:25:50 ◼   ► backdoor I know it's right so there's like you can actually ask any basically [TS]

01:25:55 ◼   ► we're seeing is for this poll we need to get 10,000 people we can give a two-day [TS]

01:25:59 ◼   ► class on cryptography and operating systems too and after that we're going [TS]

01:26:02 ◼   ► to ask you a few questions like yeah yeah and what if what if you just [TS]

01:26:06 ◼   ► proceed the question with remember like 20 minutes ago 30 minutes ago when i [TS]

01:26:10 ◼   ► read the two quotes from that the the Department of Defense the what he called [TS]

01:26:18 ◼   ► the who's in charge of the department offense the Secretary of Defense US [TS]

01:26:24 ◼   ► Secretary sarcastic and the former head of the NSA and CIA and just read those [TS]

01:26:29 ◼   ► two shorts clear statements and then say do you think Apple should be forced to [TS]

01:26:34 ◼   ► comply with this and then see if the poll results change and it's almost [TS]

01:26:36 ◼   ► certain it would change to some degree weather it would change dramatically or [TS]

01:26:40 ◼   ► mildly but it would have to have some effect so you know I I don't go that is [TS]

01:26:45 ◼   ► why we don't have this is you know it's exactly why we don't just vote on [TS]

01:26:49 ◼   ► everything you know california-style just have voter initiatives on all this [TS]

01:26:52 ◼   ► stuff that's why we have a representative democracy now and that's [TS]

01:26:56 ◼   ► I mean this is the problem sometimes are often with jury trials right we've seen [TS]

01:27:00 ◼   ► this with civil trial specifically but you have with criminal to is like how do [TS]

01:27:03 ◼   ► you get average people who who should be able to solve I mean in many kinds of [TS]

01:27:08 ◼   ► cases of criminality or [TS]

01:27:10 ◼   ► civil liability on ordinary people with reasonable intelligence should be able [TS]

01:27:14 ◼   ► to spend a few days in a courtroom learn enough to be able to make an [TS]

01:27:18 ◼   ► adjudication that's that's ostensibly fair or reasonable right right with the [TS]

01:27:22 ◼   ► judge overseeing it but how do you do that with encryption how do you do that [TS]

01:27:25 ◼   ► with most these technical topics or user interface design like you can't and [TS]

01:27:29 ◼   ► every outcome is going to be arbitrary when placed in front of a jury [TS]

01:27:32 ◼   ► it's anything with poles to poles are a reflection of how a jury would probably [TS]

01:27:36 ◼   ► deal with it which would be you know and so one of the things so Tim Cook of wild [TS]

01:27:42 ◼   ► back at some point you know a while but it's all been within the last month but [TS]

01:27:46 ◼   ► at one point had compared it to the creation of this government os/2 cancer [TS]

01:27:51 ◼   ► and I think a better analogy I've been thinking about this bothered me ever [TS]

01:27:57 ◼   ► since and a better analogy to me it's close but to me it's a better analogy is [TS]

01:28:00 ◼   ► chemical weapons or biological weapons and I've seen other people make this [TS]

01:28:04 ◼   ► comparison that creation of this is like creating a biological weapon and you can [TS]

01:28:09 ◼   ► say oh we're gonna let you keep it in a secure place and will read it and we're [TS]

01:28:14 ◼   ► gonna have we're going to devise a very precise carefully planned procedure for [TS]

01:28:21 ◼   ► the application of it so that it's only applied in this one specific thing I'm [TS]

01:28:26 ◼   ► but that there is a very good argument that the best way to avoid the dangers [TS]

01:28:32 ◼   ► of of biological weapons getting out of your control is to never create them in [TS]

01:28:36 ◼   ► the first place and that to me is where the cancer analogy falls down is it [TS]

01:28:39 ◼   ► nobody's created cancer cancer is not know I but i think it really matters [TS]

01:28:44 ◼   ► no no I think I think your true it's not an intent it's a byproduct of biological [TS]

01:28:48 ◼   ► processes and maybe pesticides and pragmatics and so forth right yeah [TS]

01:28:52 ◼   ► absolutely that's fine ever thought of technology that's right and i think it's [TS]

01:28:55 ◼   ► it's a little I think it i haven't seen Apple repeat that analogy and I think [TS]

01:28:59 ◼   ► they realize that it's not it's not it it's not a good enough analogy right [TS]

01:29:03 ◼   ► because there's this that the part of the argument that are at the entirety of [TS]

01:29:08 ◼   ► the government's argument is that this could be controlled and it would never [TS]

01:29:12 ◼   ► get out it it given the right precautions it would it would never get [TS]

01:29:16 ◼   ► out of control [TS]

01:29:17 ◼   ► and that i can think about this like what if you know ok government says you [TS]

01:29:22 ◼   ► hospital X we need you [TS]

01:29:25 ◼   ► sisters of charitable mercy we need you to open to open heart surgery on this [TS]

01:29:30 ◼   ► individual who has a micro SD card and planted in his heart and we need that [TS]

01:29:35 ◼   ► data and we and so the church you know the the hospital tries to oppose it [TS]

01:29:40 ◼   ► their order to do so a court order them to do what surgeon goes in and does the [TS]

01:29:43 ◼   ► open-heart surgery right you know to do that i mean that's a one-off thing to [TS]

01:29:47 ◼   ► it's not even it's bad and it's like okay well Ulysses possible well we have [TS]

01:29:50 ◼   ► a thousand open-heart surgeries we need to schedule tomorrow and we will have [TS]

01:29:54 ◼   ► surgeons trained in this now too so it's very easy to do [TS]

01:29:57 ◼   ► no no no no now that he has a chip in the heart [TS]

01:30:01 ◼   ► alright let me just take a break here and thank our next sponsor and it's our [TS]

01:30:06 ◼   ► good friends at audible audible.com has more than 180,000 audiobooks and spoken [TS]

01:30:14 ◼   ► word audio products and you can get a 30-day free trial at audible.com / talk [TS]

01:30:20 ◼   ► show if you want to listen to it audible has it you mean you could literally I [TS]

01:30:25 ◼   ► think with a hundred $80,000 280,000 audio but you could probably spend every [TS]

01:30:29 ◼   ► minute every waking minute of the rest your life and not not finished listening [TS]

01:30:32 ◼   ► to the awkward the audible library they have audio books from every genre you [TS]

01:30:39 ◼   ► can imagine [TS]

01:30:40 ◼   ► anytime anywhere and you can play audible audiobooks on phones tablets [TS]

01:30:45 ◼   ► computers most candles all the modern candles and even ipods audio books are [TS]

01:30:52 ◼   ► great for flights [TS]

01:30:54 ◼   ► they're great for road trips they are great to fill up your daily commute [TS]

01:31:00 ◼   ► I think it's a great solution for everybody who wishes that I did the talk [TS]

01:31:03 ◼   ► show more frequently fill in the gaps with books from audio from audible it's [TS]

01:31:09 ◼   ► it's just a tremendous resource for anybody who has the time to listen to [TS]

01:31:12 ◼   ► stuff like that i like to go when I walk and a run through the city and take a [TS]

01:31:17 ◼   ► jog or whatever I want to have something to listen to [TS]

01:31:21 ◼   ► so in its it it drives me nuts if I don't have something to listen to with [TS]

01:31:25 ◼   ► audible.com you'll never ever run out of [TS]

01:31:28 ◼   ► love to listen 280,000 books free free trial just go to audible.com / talk show [TS]

01:31:38 ◼   ► my thanks to audible for sponsoring the show once again unbelievable library [TS]

01:31:44 ◼   ► inaudible alright what else should we talk about glam tiny phones tiny phones [TS]

01:31:50 ◼   ► for tiny hands [TS]

01:31:51 ◼   ► bulgarian handed phones tiny tiny and i love the idea that Donald Trump is [TS]

01:31:57 ◼   ► bothered by it but it just keeps sending it says the photocopies of his hands [TS]

01:32:03 ◼   ► right well what is with the driver in greater harder right Eric few years it's [TS]

01:32:09 ◼   ► not like it at once like it's great cars with every couple years he gets his [TS]

01:32:13 ◼   ► story for those of you know the story i'm paraphrasing I got put in the [TS]

01:32:17 ◼   ► showings it's such a funny story that's so telling as to Donald Trump's [TS]

01:32:20 ◼   ► personality but the story is i think i might even predated the Vanity Fair was [TS]

01:32:24 ◼   ► it for spy magazine always person i think was a spy that's right I i well [TS]

01:32:29 ◼   ► but Graydon Carter has long been the editor at Vanity Fair and before that [TS]

01:32:35 ◼   ► was the editor at the late beloved Spy magazine which was just fantastic wrote [TS]

01:32:42 ◼   ► a profile of trumpet like it in the eighties and i think he called him a [TS]

01:32:45 ◼   ► small handed Vulgarian small small small finger small things involving heard [TS]

01:32:52 ◼   ► anything like that and in the decade sense [TS]

01:32:56 ◼   ► Graydon Carter since you said recently that every you know once a year maybe a [TS]

01:33:01 ◼   ► 2 years ago by but then it gets another one every couple every couple of years [TS]

01:33:04 ◼   ► he gets a letter from Trump with like a picture from a magazine pulled out and I [TS]

01:33:12 ◼   ► in gold sharpie a circle around the hands and then just like a handwritten [TS]

01:33:17 ◼   ► note that says look at those hands not small that I so you know there's a super [TS]

01:33:24 ◼   ► PAC political activity was registered by a portland oregon man called Trump has [TS]

01:33:28 ◼   ► tiny hands and the federal election commission on monday so the FCC has been [TS]

01:33:33 ◼   ► deadlocked with two members Republican appointed to democratic appointed [TS]

01:33:36 ◼   ► members destroying the ability for the FCC to enforce election law [TS]

01:33:40 ◼   ► and it's been going on for years because Congress want to prove the third . he [TS]

01:33:44 ◼   ► would give the balance of power of Democrats under obama money [TS]

01:33:47 ◼   ► one of the many and transgender points right I FBC acts against this guy on [TS]

01:33:51 ◼   ► Monday obviously can't do anything they act against this guy requiring the [TS]

01:33:56 ◼   ► changes Trump has tiny hands back so he's changed his name [TS]

01:33:59 ◼   ► it's now the Americans against insecure billionaires with tiny hands and this [TS]

01:34:04 ◼   ► political action [TS]

01:34:05 ◼   ► oh my god that could do that Trump famously was a however however large or [TS]

01:34:16 ◼   ► small his hands are a few years ago remember he tweeted something to the [TS]

01:34:22 ◼   ► effect of that this is before the iphone 6 came out that Apple needs to put out a [TS]

01:34:26 ◼   ► big iphone you know get with the times or sometimes that's funny yeah so trunk [TS]

01:34:31 ◼   ► from however small his hands are is a fan of large phones through increased my [TS]

01:34:37 ◼   ► wife like small phones and when I used for she's an iphone 5 that is failing [TS]

01:34:40 ◼   ► and when i use it when she hands it to me and she makes type large as a little [TS]

01:34:44 ◼   ► vision issues so she makes type large and i use it and i feel like i'm using a [TS]

01:34:47 ◼   ► fairy phone and like little tiny fairies use this phone is so I'm like how many [TS]

01:34:51 ◼   ► years that i use a phone that was that size or smaller and it seemed fine i [TS]

01:34:55 ◼   ► have an iphone 6s and now the iphone 5 size 5 exercise seems ridiculous but [TS]

01:35:00 ◼   ► she's waiting [TS]

01:35:01 ◼   ► her phone is failing if the SE ships are it is announced on monday as expected [TS]

01:35:05 ◼   ► then she's a customer i will Charles the customer i would argue that in its [TS]

01:35:10 ◼   ► certain sense i don't know what the volume is but in a in a hand feel sense [TS]

01:35:14 ◼   ► i would argue that the iphone 5 and 5s are the smallest iphone their apple ever [TS]

01:35:17 ◼   ► made and I know that the screen got big hole it went from three and a half four [TS]

01:35:21 ◼   ► but it's so much thinner that to me it feels smaller and I i have my little [TS]

01:35:27 ◼   ► Museum here bored I iphones uh-huh that do because of the thinnest it feels [TS]

01:35:32 ◼   ► smaller in the hand that it feels like the smallest iphone the every that that [TS]

01:35:36 ◼   ► is probably at your right by volume and like screen edge dimensions yes maybe by [TS]

01:35:41 ◼   ► volume it's not because of the extra length of to accommodate the foreign [TS]

01:35:46 ◼   ► screen as opposed to 3.5 but because you hold it sideways typically you don't [TS]

01:35:51 ◼   ► really hold it and end [TS]

01:35:53 ◼   ► that the volume that matters is sort of like the you know like the bottom half [TS]

01:35:58 ◼   ► of the phone that's true or like the bottom you know 23 inches is the really [TS]

01:36:03 ◼   ► the volume that matters in that the whatever sticks up off the top doesn't [TS]

01:36:07 ◼   ► really count [TS]

01:36:08 ◼   ► I think it's gonna be a big seller i hope it actually is a real thing seems [TS]

01:36:11 ◼   ► very reliably so that's a real thing and it's it's fun to watch [TS]

01:36:16 ◼   ► I mean Apple has that matrix who did that a few years ago before something [TS]

01:36:19 ◼   ► came with the ipad mini something came out where someone built this likes this [TS]

01:36:23 ◼   ► fan of like all the devices and sizes and prices they said here are the holes [TS]

01:36:27 ◼   ► than apple released devices that fit in those holes are filthy [TS]

01:36:30 ◼   ► the SEC is absolutely one of those holes right now I i think it's fascinating [TS]

01:36:35 ◼   ► that here we are we're recording on Wednesday mark 16 and I think the shows [TS]

01:36:38 ◼   ► going to air on thursday i don't know when people listen I hopefully they'll [TS]

01:36:43 ◼   ► listen before the event on monday but who knows what while leak at the last [TS]

01:36:47 ◼   ► possible minute but it's fascinating to me that the phone hasn't leaked and I [TS]

01:36:51 ◼   ► know that there was like a CAD drawing that one of the rumor sites i don't know [TS]

01:36:55 ◼   ► if it was 9to5 mac or macrumors probably 9to5 mac but they had like a CAD [TS]

01:37:00 ◼   ► rendering that they then interpreted as a you know made like a rendering out of [TS]

01:37:06 ◼   ► but we don't really know like the parts didn't leak there's nobody who's held up [TS]

01:37:11 ◼   ► a part that says here's the you know here's the casing for the iphone SE and [TS]

01:37:16 ◼   ► I actually wonder if it's shipping like a month in there but i can't imagine [TS]

01:37:19 ◼   ► they can do the events a and you can order this for shipping on may first and [TS]

01:37:23 ◼   ► only available day and date her to believe government variety right yeah I [TS]

01:37:27 ◼   ► think government says by friday which is actually kind of interesting my you know [TS]

01:37:30 ◼   ► just my own selfish interests that it's i'm going to the event will be at the [TS]

01:37:35 ◼   ► event I gas since i'm going that i'll probably get one to review but if [TS]

01:37:41 ◼   ► they're shipping on friday i don't i'm not quite sure how how I write a review [TS]

01:37:44 ◼   ► before it actually ships [TS]

01:37:46 ◼   ► yeah that's it it seems the only other through monday event [TS]

01:37:51 ◼   ► yeah although the other hand maybe it's very easy device to review its it's back [TS]

01:37:57 ◼   ► to the old sighs and it's got the new specs and you know figure out like the [TS]

01:38:01 ◼   ► chips [TS]

01:38:02 ◼   ► I think I'm gonna like it I think I'm going to I don't know that i'll switch [TS]

01:38:06 ◼   ► from the forest seven but i might be very tempted to I'd I it's it's gonna be [TS]

01:38:12 ◼   ► a close call for me I i love that there i mean if this happens it seems so [TS]

01:38:16 ◼   ► likely i love that they're doing it because that we talked to talk to some [TS]

01:38:20 ◼   ► other folks about the notion that we're going to post numbering that maybe this [TS]

01:38:25 ◼   ► is or maybe this model never gets number i think you bring about the ask you is [TS]

01:38:29 ◼   ► that like was some point but you know the ipad 3 was that called the ipad 2 in [TS]

01:38:34 ◼   ► the ipad 3 then it became the ipad and numbers are bad for Apple except they're [TS]

01:38:39 ◼   ► trying to create demand like a poll of demand for the newer thing and I think [TS]

01:38:43 ◼   ► sales figures and growth make sure that they just need to be shipping out [TS]

01:38:47 ◼   ► devices maybe not getting the expectation that it's every September in [TS]

01:38:52 ◼   ► the same way and the new plans I mean the thing is with a lot of people [TS]

01:38:56 ◼   ► shipping to shifting to installment plans that allow an upgrade after either [TS]

01:38:58 ◼   ► 12 or 18 months i think we're going to see seems like the majority of people in [TS]

01:39:03 ◼   ► the US will wind up on a plan with either 12 or 18 months refresh and some [TS]

01:39:06 ◼   ► with like a you know 20 or 24 month where they don't pay me extra for that [TS]

01:39:11 ◼   ► that's going to flood the market with older phones in some fashion will be [TS]

01:39:15 ◼   ► resold or there'll be no refurbished right and available and then you have [TS]

01:39:21 ◼   ► all these people like I mean hey look i'm not an installment plan by getting [TS]

01:39:24 ◼   ► an iphone 7 or whatever it's called probably because I feel like that's my [TS]

01:39:27 ◼   ► Apple fee is now I'm paying know what is 56 bucks a month i'll just be that [TS]

01:39:31 ◼   ► forever for my phone and I'll just always have the freshest phone like that [TS]

01:39:35 ◼   ► does not seem like a penalty to me the way their marketing it [TS]

01:39:39 ◼   ► yeah to me I think it'll probably personally come down to image quality [TS]

01:39:44 ◼   ► I think that cool or you know for the camera that if you want your 12 [TS]

01:39:49 ◼   ► megapixel one well I don't care about the megapixel ok I'm sorry but like I [TS]

01:39:52 ◼   ► had her right eye care the field I want to the field [TS]

01:39:55 ◼   ► well you're not going to get that in this camp you know I know it's not going [TS]

01:39:59 ◼   ► to move [TS]

01:39:59 ◼   ► it's not going to move that forward but if to me it looks like i can take the [TS]

01:40:03 ◼   ► same quality pictures in the same lighting conditions as my my phone 600 [TS]

01:40:08 ◼   ► Morrissey yes more or less that it you know at least to my eyes it looks like [TS]

01:40:13 ◼   ► i'm getting the same image quality I think I would [TS]

01:40:15 ◼   ► for the smaller phone i like the way it feels in my hand I like the way it is [TS]

01:40:20 ◼   ► smaller in my pocket and I to be honest the majority of what I read on the phone [TS]

01:40:29 ◼   ► is Twitter and tweets because they're so small it doesn't matter that i can see [TS]

01:40:35 ◼   ► more of them at a time on a larger screen who and I you know I I read I to [TS]

01:40:41 ◼   ► read a lot of articles on mobile safari but I don't I never mind it that much [TS]

01:40:45 ◼   ► you know like to me both screens aren't small and constrained for reading [TS]

01:40:49 ◼   ► articles and they just reflow them with the in a reader view or something like [TS]

01:40:54 ◼   ► that so who the big screen to me isn't all that appealing i see you know it is [TS]

01:40:59 ◼   ► certainly a trade-off but it turns of the smaller device sized i don't know i [TS]

01:41:03 ◼   ► think i'm on the fence me and malts yeah I like time in the smaller phone i mean [TS]

01:41:07 ◼   ► this comes back to apparently were both guys so there's an issue there which is [TS]

01:41:11 ◼   ► that we don't have the tiny unusable pockets or no pockets that a lot of [TS]

01:41:14 ◼   ► women have their clothing my friend erin mckean who's that word Nick the head of [TS]

01:41:18 ◼   ► that great site thats collecting like open source of definitions of words a [TS]

01:41:23 ◼   ► non-profit project she likes micro dresses makes wonderful stuff what about [TS]

01:41:27 ◼   ► it for the magazine years ago and she puts pockets and stuff it's just people [TS]

01:41:31 ◼   ► stopping all the time where you have pockets in your clothing other happens [TS]

01:41:34 ◼   ► like I've made the dress that's those pockets of it was encountered this all [TS]

01:41:38 ◼   ► the time in my wife wears you know stylish but not like um like fashion of [TS]

01:41:42 ◼   ► certainly stylish unusable clothing and got to think like that was the thing [TS]

01:41:46 ◼   ► with the iphone 6 or if I'm gonna have six plus when it came out I thought I [TS]

01:41:51 ◼   ► don't want to phone that big but i'm not going to prejudge it because Apple knows [TS]

01:41:54 ◼   ► the market better and i am like one tiny segment now of the mark I don't want a [TS]

01:41:57 ◼   ► gold phone I don't want to go watch I want whatever I and a lot of women i [TS]

01:42:02 ◼   ► know i liked the six plus because they already keeping a phone in their purse [TS]

01:42:05 ◼   ► and this was like this is great i can read it and it doubles as a kindle it [TS]

01:42:10 ◼   ► serves many purposes and a lot of women and some men i know but i would say more [TS]

01:42:14 ◼   ► of the women I know got it then man although several men we know like my [TS]

01:42:17 ◼   ► curly and support the big fans of it i feel like the BSE is definitely ties [TS]

01:42:21 ◼   ► more into that like the small pocket thing or small like not having a lot of [TS]

01:42:25 ◼   ► rumors stuff to carry [TS]

01:42:27 ◼   ► it's going to be for an audience that [TS]

01:42:29 ◼   ► has been underserved the 5s Phil back app I'm so I'm excited to go out for [TS]

01:42:34 ◼   ► this event because I so don't know I'm what I have a good guess what they're [TS]

01:42:38 ◼   ► going to show ya but i have no idea how they're going to sell it to us which to [TS]

01:42:43 ◼   ► me is interesting because there's two main things that they've got to get the [TS]

01:42:46 ◼   ► smaller phone and they got the than the new iPad pro that's only nine point [TS]

01:42:52 ◼   ► seven inches which is effectively just a smaller ipad pro so how do they stay how [TS]

01:42:56 ◼   ► do they get onstage and sell two devices that are it's exactly like the thing we [TS]

01:43:00 ◼   ► announced in September between right that neither of them are going to do [TS]

01:43:05 ◼   ► anything better than the ones that are already on the market [TS]

01:43:09 ◼   ► I wonderful talk about as a family of devices we know people have different [TS]

01:43:12 ◼   ► needs and different bands and the 5s has been a stunning woman to the 5s never [TS]

01:43:15 ◼   ► talk backwards right like we you know we fill this category in the past and now [TS]

01:43:19 ◼   ► we felt we could do something unique and new and this is what we're doing to fill [TS]

01:43:24 ◼   ► out our product line to fit a family of needs write something like that [TS]

01:43:28 ◼   ► i I don't know and they have to say something new that there's always a new [TS]

01:43:31 ◼   ► thing this is the reason why we waited till now to do this what is it we don't [TS]

01:43:35 ◼   ► i don't know yeah I don't know how it's just like the less than with smaller how [TS]

01:43:38 ◼   ► they get something new out of it I there must be but I is that I'd like the [TS]

01:43:42 ◼   ► canopy is last thing but smaller think different right [TS]

01:43:46 ◼   ► do you think there's a question I that I keep me in and asked us on Twitter but [TS]

01:43:50 ◼   ► i'll ask you do you think they will come out with the smart battery pack for the [TS]

01:43:58 ◼   ► iphone SE that's a great question i just i was working for wire cutter for a [TS]

01:44:03 ◼   ► while I work on this USB battery guy . the battery into the battery pack that [TS]

01:44:07 ◼   ► was that damn freaks old friend dentrix working the battery pack up from that [TS]

01:44:12 ◼   ► came out but looking at a lot of batteries that are out there and what's [TS]

01:44:16 ◼   ► capable and what the capacity of this thing will likely be I have a hard time [TS]

01:44:22 ◼   ► believing it because i think the whole idea this was going to be that sort of [TS]

01:44:26 ◼   ► like a very specific form right so if you come out with it and a battery pack [TS]

01:44:31 ◼   ► you're underselling what this phone is about because they are so much more [TS]

01:44:36 ◼   ► efficient with power than what the f of the 5s [TS]

01:44:39 ◼   ► i would bet they could eat thirty or forty percent more power out of the same [TS]

01:44:44 ◼   ► form factor than they can of the fs with a similar as using the same battery [TS]

01:44:49 ◼   ► capacity and so ostensibly allowed a slightly bigger battery because they're [TS]

01:44:53 ◼   ► better at that or slightly denser perhaps and everything will be so much [TS]

01:44:57 ◼   ► more efficient and because the screen is so much smaller by area and by pixel [TS]

01:45:02 ◼   ► count it written at risk [TS]

01:45:03 ◼   ► well but they perfected that really hard to believe that they would want I mean [TS]

01:45:08 ◼   ► what you want to strike I understand the 6s it makes a lot of sense because it's [TS]

01:45:13 ◼   ► kind of in the middle there and people i mean USB battery packs of all kinds not [TS]

01:45:17 ◼   ► just the ones that I I think cases have told so well I think if they do it will [TS]

01:45:22 ◼   ► roll out on the same schedule that the battery pack for the success did which [TS]

01:45:27 ◼   ► is you know six weeks after the phone comes out [TS]

01:45:30 ◼   ► don't steal the thunder yeah stress and here's something hey and don't don't [TS]

01:45:34 ◼   ► risk the the pr backlash of apple releases a phone that needs an external [TS]

01:45:39 ◼   ► battery pack [TS]

01:45:40 ◼   ► yeah right i mean they got that anyway when they released their own battery [TS]

01:45:43 ◼   ► pack but at at by the time november $YEAR rolled around it was a lot quieter [TS]

01:45:47 ◼   ► than if they had done it on stage [TS]

01:45:49 ◼   ► can I talk batteries for a second because i can't tell you how many [TS]

01:45:51 ◼   ► batteries are tested and I did this thing at the wire cutter I would have a [TS]

01:45:55 ◼   ► USB battery pack guy with that great writer their mark on super notice who [TS]

01:45:59 ◼   ► did a fantastic job use the battery testing lab Kate except in vancouver bc [TS]

01:46:03 ◼   ► is fascinating and then I did a bunch of reviews for macworld just a few weeks [TS]

01:46:08 ◼   ► ago of us bc equipped batteries and oh my god if you haven't touched the [TS]

01:46:13 ◼   ► battery like us be better if you like a few years ago were like these are sort [TS]

01:46:17 ◼   ► of terrible expensive they don't last long [TS]

01:46:19 ◼   ► the next generation is out and like across all these different manufacturers [TS]

01:46:23 ◼   ► and you can get you can charge the one that I like best in the macro roundup [TS]

01:46:28 ◼   ► was the anchor has a 20,000 100 milliampere our battery with us bc and [TS]

01:46:34 ◼   ► USA ear anybody 20,000 20,000 cost fifty bucks so if i can charge your macbook [TS]

01:46:40 ◼   ► about a hundred and ten percent from it [TS]

01:46:43 ◼   ► why 12-inch MacBook wow that's that I know what I was like you know it's kind [TS]

01:46:47 ◼   ► of watching batteries a little ahead and get into it and the [TS]

01:46:49 ◼   ► circuitry is so much better they hold a charge for the new like the new [TS]

01:46:52 ◼   ► lithium-ion cells are being used hold a charge better they're so much better at [TS]

01:46:57 ◼   ► conversion they don't heat up as much it's really extraordinary so if you've [TS]

01:47:02 ◼   ► been holding back on a USB sound like an ad for the images that it is complicated [TS]

01:47:06 ◼   ► though I actually looked into it a couple weeks ago and i was going to do a [TS]

01:47:09 ◼   ► wire cutter style thing where i actually bought like three or four just for the [TS]

01:47:13 ◼   ► phone [TS]

01:47:14 ◼   ► it was right after I did the battery case review and I thought you know what [TS]

01:47:17 ◼   ► I should review these little portable things because I've long had one it's a [TS]

01:47:21 ◼   ► couple and you're too old a mophie that has like most of my problem movie is a [TS]

01:47:27 ◼   ► movie alone has too many they have too many they also charge for x we need to [TS]

01:47:32 ◼   ► pay anywhere cuz it makes it so hard to figure out what to buy just got anybody [TS]

01:47:36 ◼   ► at murphy who listens to the show please for the love of God just get rid of [TS]

01:47:39 ◼   ► three quarters of your product lineup and just keep you know just tell me [TS]

01:47:43 ◼   ► what's the best one again because they have like different even just form [TS]

01:47:46 ◼   ► factors of them but anyway they've got one that I really like that has built in [TS]

01:47:49 ◼   ► a built-in USB cable and built not like yeah and it does pass through charging [TS]

01:47:56 ◼   ► does it do is it that pastor is interesting which is it too so it's got [TS]

01:48:00 ◼   ► a type a connector you can plug into a a DC adapter yeah like yeah like a [TS]

01:48:05 ◼   ► standard not you later doesn't have lightning the right now it doesn't like [TS]

01:48:09 ◼   ► me as a bit so does lightning and type in OC that's great and you can get that [TS]

01:48:12 ◼   ► there's a Travelcard if you want a really tiny one has a lightning and type [TS]

01:48:17 ◼   ► a thing with what's taking taipei means you plug it into the charger right yet i [TS]

01:48:22 ◼   ► pay is like the wreck the stator rectangular one and that's what you [TS]

01:48:25 ◼   ► mostly see that's the computer side more exciting to us bc or type is what you're [TS]

01:48:30 ◼   ► going to see on computers and all the AC adapters are taipei those rectangular [TS]

01:48:34 ◼   ► plugs but travel card is really is really neat because it has the integral [TS]

01:48:38 ◼   ► lightning mfa mfi approved or licensed certified whatever and and the one so [TS]

01:48:44 ◼   ► you only you don't carry any extra cable travelpod I think it's like 40 bucks so [TS]

01:48:48 ◼   ► it's expensive or 35 and it only charge your phone like I like two-thirds the [TS]

01:48:53 ◼   ► way or something but I like iphone 6 but if that's what you need if you're like [TS]

01:48:56 ◼   ► the question thing we did the wire cutters we divided it up into you need [TS]

01:49:00 ◼   ► it to top off at your [TS]

01:49:01 ◼   ► full day at work our way and you get through the night or the end of an [TS]

01:49:04 ◼   ► evening or do you want to be able to charge like for another full day of [TS]

01:49:08 ◼   ► usage or on the road on the road for like a week and you've got an ipad so [TS]

01:49:12 ◼   ► you can get things are now a differentiation you get anything from [TS]

01:49:15 ◼   ► like Oh amazon amazon basics it doesn't have a lightning cable but it will take [TS]

01:49:20 ◼   ► a regular plug you can plug your cable into it your regular right at ya [TS]

01:49:25 ◼   ► adapter two thousand milliampere our battery from amazon it will charge your [TS]

01:49:29 ◼   ► phone i think the resulting charges at least half or two-thirds it's five or [TS]

01:49:34 ◼   ► six bucks an amazon basics add-on so you can go all the way from that up to like [TS]

01:49:38 ◼   ► 25,000 milliampere our grab power and some others that will charge an ipad [TS]

01:49:43 ◼   ► like six times or something that's really it's really interesting to think [TS]

01:49:46 ◼   ► about I mean I've always use them in the context of charging the phone but it's [TS]

01:49:49 ◼   ► interesting to think about charging like a macbook that way within getting like a [TS]

01:49:53 ◼   ► you know like a hundred you said 110% charge out of ya the rancor ism the [TS]

01:49:58 ◼   ► anchors raising anchors a fascinating companies like Google engineer and his [TS]

01:50:01 ◼   ► wife started this up and she started the business I think and then he eventually [TS]

01:50:04 ◼   ► quit google they moved back to China think they're from China richly move [TS]

01:50:08 ◼   ► back there are things we said and now they're shipping like a hundred thousand [TS]

01:50:12 ◼   ► items a month or something like they came from over there quite love anchor [TS]

01:50:16 ◼   ► quality it's like it's really great that whole lineup of stuff i and and they're [TS]

01:50:22 ◼   ► making their kind of pushing it so that what what happened really is that a lot [TS]

01:50:25 ◼   ► of companies panasonic LG and a bunch of other firms started to make really good [TS]

01:50:29 ◼   ► standardized you know essentially lithium-ion cells they their varying [TS]

01:50:33 ◼   ► size their cylinders like a double a battery but could be bigger or smaller [TS]

01:50:36 ◼   ► and the standardized components mean that nobody in the chain has to build [TS]

01:50:40 ◼   ► that part and they're all such high quality or bladder very high-quality now [TS]

01:50:44 ◼   ► that it's so affordable they can stick 3 or 6 or 8 into a thing with you know [TS]

01:50:50 ◼   ► some circuitry to handle charging and USB conversion and get you know it's [TS]

01:50:54 ◼   ► really all that like packaging engineering of taking this commodity [TS]

01:50:57 ◼   ► item and making it something better [TS]

01:50:59 ◼   ► it's cool it's the new fiscal future I the gist of my experimentation with [TS]

01:51:05 ◼   ► these movie ones i bought two with other ones that don't have built-in cables and [TS]

01:51:09 ◼   ► you instead of to supply your own lightning cable to charge your phone [TS]

01:51:12 ◼   ► from it [TS]

01:51:13 ◼   ► but the the other ones are more like almost like a basically like iphone size [TS]

01:51:17 ◼   ► batteries there you know yeah there in like an iphone and a varying sizes [TS]

01:51:23 ◼   ► depending on their capacity but you have to supply your own cable the thing that [TS]

01:51:26 ◼   ► really makes them work well for me is when you buy like from amazon basics or [TS]

01:51:31 ◼   ► i actually bought a couple from i forget the name of the company was named a [TS]

01:51:36 ◼   ► company by real cheap cables at a lot of price [TS]

01:51:38 ◼   ► monoprice so I want rise tomorrow sorry i bought it but about a bunch of these [TS]

01:51:43 ◼   ► little like three inch lightning cables which in a lot of context make no sense [TS]

01:51:48 ◼   ► at all but like for just putting a battery in your pocket while it charges [TS]

01:51:51 ◼   ► the phone it's absolutely perfect because then you don't have like dog to [TS]

01:51:55 ◼   ► me before i bought one of these little cables to go with it the whole the whole [TS]

01:51:59 ◼   ► thing that was such a pain and looked ridiculous is what do you do with the [TS]

01:52:02 ◼   ► three foot cable when you're charging it in a device that's in your pocket [TS]

01:52:07 ◼   ► these little like two or three inch lightning cables are perfect for that so [TS]

01:52:10 ◼   ► and to me it's a better solution than the Apple battery pack or any battery [TS]

01:52:15 ◼   ► pack for that matter because unless you really want to use the battery pack [TS]

01:52:18 ◼   ► every single day at winter we're at which point I really question whether [TS]

01:52:22 ◼   ► you shouldn't just get the iphone plus size if if that you know if you really [TS]

01:52:27 ◼   ► want it all the time every day why don't you just buy the iphone plus well this [TS]

01:52:32 ◼   ► is the thing that's interesting to having gone through all this battery [TS]

01:52:34 ◼   ► stuff is USB is a huge bottleneck and so including lightning there's only a [TS]

01:52:39 ◼   ► maximum amount of power you can push into an iphone or ipod ipad battery or [TS]

01:52:45 ◼   ► even recharges i'm testing 20,000 milliampere our batteries it takes hours [TS]

01:52:50 ◼   ► to train these things I got this thing I had to order from Japan this beautiful [TS]

01:52:53 ◼   ► little device cannot get in America that's a low generator it did that pulls [TS]

01:52:57 ◼   ► two amps of load up to like 3i think off a USB port and dissipated as heat so i [TS]

01:53:02 ◼   ► could drain the damn thing so i can test to see how fast they charge [TS]

01:53:06 ◼   ► there's a new quick charge two and three of these standards from Qualcomm that [TS]

01:53:10 ◼   ► are being built into android phones some other phones back in charge of higher [TS]

01:53:14 ◼   ► voltages so they can they charged in a relatively low amperage high voltage and [TS]

01:53:18 ◼   ► they can recharge battery like two or three times faster than at USB voltages [TS]

01:53:22 ◼   ► even at high temperatures so USB [TS]

01:53:25 ◼   ► c is interesting because USBC boosts the overall like wattage you can put into [TS]

01:53:31 ◼   ► something so if an ipad pro would actually really good with us bc because [TS]

01:53:36 ◼   ► it could safely charge this battery like four or five times faster than the [TS]

01:53:40 ◼   ► limits that USB put science-y you mean ipad pro I'd love to talk to some people [TS]

01:53:44 ◼   ► that that what if what if [TS]

01:53:46 ◼   ► well it's george time is lightning definitely put a limiting factor what if [TS]

01:53:50 ◼   ► the lightning cable started with us bc to get the power and then was lightning [TS]

01:53:54 ◼   ► into the device that's a good question i believe that lightning has a wattage [TS]

01:53:59 ◼   ► limits that is below what you can do with us bc by a large factor so man of [TS]

01:54:06 ◼   ► course I don't know what the limit is i think it's i think it's only 15 watts [TS]

01:54:10 ◼   ► you can put over lightning and you can do you know the macbook charges that [TS]

01:54:14 ◼   ► well as a 29 wat charger and USB see could have 200 watts on a cable you want [TS]

01:54:20 ◼   ► to do that with an ipad pro but even like a 3829 water 31 charger for the [TS]

01:54:24 ◼   ► ipad pro I think would at legacy least double or maybe even be sixty-seven [TS]

01:54:30 ◼   ► percent more than you can do with lightnings limits one of the basic rules [TS]

01:54:33 ◼   ► of computer technology in general is that anything that slowed will [TS]

01:54:37 ◼   ► eventually be faster right it's terrible i get it and you just accept it like you [TS]