The Talk Show

147: ‘iTools or Whatever’, With Special Guest Jim Dalrymple


00:00:00   what a week once a week so I thought that we would be talking about by [TS]

00:00:07   interview with the craig federighi in an EQ and apple software quality and we can [TS]

00:00:12   get to that later but obviously this is this is a week when there's actually a [TS]

00:00:16   very clear i can't wait to get to that later [TS]

00:00:19   so let's I mean for anybody who's had their head in the ground all week or [TS]

00:00:26   anybody who I guess is listening you know I guess you always have to preface [TS]

00:00:29   this podcast because who knows when somebody's gonna listen to you know go [TS]

00:00:32   back and listen old episodes but this was the week where tuesday night Apple [TS]

00:00:37   published an open letter from Tim Cook revealing that the FBI and it has [TS]

00:00:43   obtained a court order to compel Apple to support long story short supply the [TS]

00:00:50   FBI with a custom version of iOS that would help them break the passcode of an [TS]

00:00:59   iphone 5c that was owned by or wasn't really owned by was used by one of the [TS]

00:01:04   shooters in the San Bernardino incident a few months ago right and apple is [TS]

00:01:13   saying that you know the day they have helped in cooperating with law [TS]

00:01:17   enforcement many times in the past and I think they might still in the future but [TS]

00:01:21   in terms of value know what they're willing to do supplying in a [TS]

00:01:24   more-or-less writing malware for iOS is a line that they don't want to cross and [TS]

00:01:31   then haul he'll listen [TS]

00:01:34   well I i have a lot of respect for apple for for standing up for you know for [TS]

00:01:40   what they believe in [TS]

00:01:41   they they could just as easily have have you know gone along with it and kept [TS]

00:01:47   quiet all right but they didn't [TS]

00:01:50   yeah I I brought up you know it's funny thing and we can write about this too [TS]

00:01:54   it's an interesting i took an interesting strategy this weekend during [TS]

00:01:59   fire but I've been very active have a lot of posts on this but i didn't write [TS]

00:02:02   like a feature of a column or article it's all just links and my commentary [TS]

00:02:07   interspersed in there with without really writing one big article and I [TS]

00:02:12   expected like when I woke [TS]

00:02:13   wednesday morning i thought well i gotta write and i have to write like a big [TS]

00:02:16   piece about this and as I started like reading everything that was out there I [TS]

00:02:21   was like you know it look one way to put it would be that I spent the week [TS]

00:02:25   blogging not writing [TS]

00:02:26   yeah you know what i mean and I in a way I feel like it was it was a better use [TS]

00:02:31   of my time in a better a service to the readers of daring fireball because i [TS]

00:02:35   found so many good articles that other people had written that we're making a [TS]

00:02:39   point I wanted to make that rather than remake them myself why not just point [TS]

00:02:44   them to them and then add my two cents on this better one of the points I [TS]

00:02:48   didn't make it and i really think it's important for people who listen to our [TS]

00:02:52   shows or read our websites because I think overwhelmingly the people who like [TS]

00:02:55   reading fireball or the loop and listen to the talk show are already on our side [TS]

00:02:59   and that they and that they have a basic enough grasp of the way encryption works [TS]

00:03:04   that they see apples . but I really can't emphasize enough how many you know [TS]

00:03:11   how I don't wear an echo chamber here with the people who agree with this and [TS]

00:03:16   if you get outside and go to the real world where people don't understand [TS]

00:03:18   encryption the support for apple is not is as clear cut or blanket you know and [TS]

00:03:25   it's dangerous for a politically that they really are going out on the land [TS]

00:03:29   yeah they really are and it's it's it's it's not funny i guess but it's when you [TS]

00:03:40   look at at the case that the the FBI chose to use this on i mean they were [TS]

00:03:45   very deliberated they they wanted something that would fire up the public [TS]

00:03:49   so much against apple and in some ways that's worked you know people are saying [TS]

00:03:58   in some circles people are saying that Apple should comply because these were [TS]

00:04:04   bad people and we need to stop at people but there's bigger issues than that it's [TS]

00:04:09   not just this one issue [TS]

00:04:11   yeah it's not so much maybe maybe fired up against apple is the wrong way to put [TS]

00:04:16   it not equivalent with your words but it's a little bit more that that people [TS]

00:04:19   would universally side with the FBI and similar the FBI has got to be able to to [TS]

00:04:24   get at these peoples phones [TS]

00:04:26   and it really is a just perfectly crafted case from the FBI's perspective [TS]

00:04:32   because it was a terrible insult everybody agrees with that I mean the [TS]

00:04:35   Apple goes out of its way to say this is a terrible incident and you know we'll [TS]

00:04:39   do anything we can that we think is within the law and within our the [TS]

00:04:45   interest of maintaining overall security for our users to help but let's just [TS]

00:04:49   face it i mean the fact that these were people from a Muslim background it it [TS]

00:04:56   makes it even worse there's there's an element to enter let you know as opposed [TS]

00:05:00   to if it was the guy remember it was just like a week or two prior to that if [TS]

00:05:04   it was the guy from Colorado who shot up [TS]

00:05:07   Planned Parenthood it that wouldn't do it at the way that having it be suspects [TS]

00:05:15   of a Muslim descent just because that's its that's the way it is that human [TS]

00:05:19   nature [TS]

00:05:20   yeah you know and it's in that in it that's what their banking them right [TS]

00:05:24   that it's just it's that the politics of that and the the emotional dynamic of [TS]

00:05:31   that or just overwhelmingly you know powerful and I don't know that it is I [TS]

00:05:36   think an apple is saying maybe not [TS]

00:05:38   well and and I i think if you look at Tim Cook's letter I it's very compelling [TS]

00:05:47   i think it was well thought out very well written and Ed brings up some [TS]

00:05:53   really great . so I mean that was that was written [TS]

00:05:58   I mean you could see Tim saying that yeah you know and i think by now we we [TS]

00:06:05   all can believe what what tim says he stands on on principle and he does what [TS]

00:06:13   he says he's going to do now [TS]

00:06:16   mattapan torino had a good article pointing out the differences you know [TS]

00:06:21   that there's one of the cynical takes on this is and it's definitely not just [TS]

00:06:29   from one source in Matthew pantry no story had a couple of links to it but [TS]

00:06:32   going to paraphrase it but that [TS]

00:06:35   more or less claiming that Apple's showboating and trying to gain publicity [TS]

00:06:40   for being you know having these super secure phones and you know getting [TS]

00:06:46   people to say wow iphone is so powerful the FBI can't even crack it and using [TS]

00:06:51   that as a positive thing and in the past apple has helped the FBI 70 times to do [TS]

00:06:57   the same thing and you know if you want to be cynical like that and say that [TS]

00:07:04   Apple is trying to make this a thing that brag about the iphone security [TS]

00:07:07   you're welcome to but i really i really think that that's that I don't think [TS]

00:07:12   that's the case I think it's so risky because now you've got like presidential [TS]

00:07:15   candidates like down you know doctors ridiculous it's ridiculous that I'm [TS]

00:07:19   talking about it seriously but he is the lead the leading Republican presidential [TS]

00:07:24   candidate is saying flat-out Apple Apple should absolutely who do they think they [TS]

00:07:28   are where his actual words who do they think they are heat being that they [TS]

00:07:31   absolutely should comply with this court case that it's become part of our you [TS]

00:07:35   know political debate and to say that this is a sure win hope you know PR y is [TS]

00:07:40   for Apple is to me [TS]

00:07:42   I think you're looking for the central angle but the bigger difference is that [TS]

00:07:46   what Apple has done in the past when they help law enforcement is very [TS]

00:07:49   different it and I know saying very might you might say seems to know just [TS]

00:07:54   like one little step it's different it's you know in the past they have helped [TS]

00:07:57   them you know without modifying the software help them use this offer as is [TS]

00:08:02   to get data off the phone right and in times past in years past a lot less of [TS]

00:08:08   the information on the phones was encrypted [TS]

00:08:10   it's really only in recent years that the entire disk of the you know storage [TS]

00:08:17   volume of the iphone is is full disk encryption let me ask you something why [TS]

00:08:23   do you think the other tech companies heaven take us taking a stronger stand [TS]

00:08:29   ah well I think it's multifaceted but i think one of them is that and I think [TS]

00:08:39   his pants are a no again had though was it the why Apple peace and more or less [TS]

00:08:44   i wasn't pantry know it was a curing Healey who i'd like to that's right i'm [TS]

00:08:50   trying to put that in charlotte show notes but but can he lead his argument [TS]

00:08:54   was to pay again to paraphrase apples the only company that still makes [TS]

00:08:58   hardware that really is a hardware company and because of that you know [TS]

00:09:02   none of these other companies you know Google yes google makes nexus devices [TS]

00:09:06   and yes Microsoft makes the nokia phones which have look I mean literally no [TS]

00:09:11   exaggeration like you know 1.1 percent market share [TS]

00:09:15   it's not as important to them or as Apple's fundamental business is selling [TS]

00:09:19   Hardware to people and that there's a trust issue there that put apple in a [TS]

00:09:26   position that no other company really is where this is a big deal [TS]

00:09:30   secondarily i think that there are other and again this is starting to be a [TS]

00:09:35   little cynical but i think that you know a new york times even mentioned this in [TS]

00:09:39   articles but that apple doesn't depend on government sales to a large degree [TS]

00:09:43   whereas microsoft just signed for example a huge deal to get the entire [TS]

00:09:47   department of defense to upgrade all of their pcs to windows 10 and that they [TS]

00:09:55   don't want to anger them i'm not quite sure why Google doesn't take a stronger [TS]

00:09:59   stance but they clearly don't [TS]

00:10:02   yeah what do you think well I was talking to to Peter Cohen last night and [TS]

00:10:08   Peter said maybe they don't want everybody to know that they've already [TS]

00:10:15   cooperated with the government which is you know really cynical stand but i [TS]

00:10:24   don't know i mean obviously they don't want this the FBI sites turned on them [TS]

00:10:29   right now they're just trying to keep their their head down that's that's an [TS]

00:10:34   obvious . but you know is there something else in there right [TS]

00:10:40   did I mean if they take a big standards the government gonna come back and [TS]

00:10:43   they were what are you talking about you know you were already given us lots of [TS]

00:10:47   info right that in some way however to whatever degree they've already [TS]

00:10:51   cooperated with the government past is something the government can hold [TS]

00:10:53   against them [TS]

00:10:54   party city was yeah that might be a good argument there and I'll just emphasize [TS]

00:10:58   it one of the things that's you know I think overlooked in this if you just [TS]

00:11:02   look at it in broad terms that while apple won't cooperate with the FBI on [TS]

00:11:05   this san bernardino case they have already like the in just for example [TS]

00:11:10   that the suspect in this case apparently was using iCloud backup until a certain [TS]

00:11:16   point and I actually think this is one of the things that I've been looking [TS]

00:11:21   around I don't know that we on the outside have a very good understanding [TS]

00:11:24   of just how available [TS]

00:11:27   what what is the encryption on the stuff that's backed up from my cloud like when [TS]

00:11:34   they come but anyway the Apple did come comply with the FBI and supplied them [TS]

00:11:38   with access to some some ask some subset of their whatever is the unencrypted [TS]

00:11:43   part of the iCloud backup from this San Bernardino shooter the reason the FBI [TS]

00:11:48   wants the phone is that there was like six weeks after the last backup to [TS]

00:11:52   iCloud you know between that last backup in the incident and they're they're [TS]

00:11:59   concerned it's it seems like a reasonable concern that maybe there's [TS]

00:12:02   some you know actionable intelligence in that in turn but it's not like Apple [TS]

00:12:07   hasn't done what they can they're just saying here's a line we're not going to [TS]

00:12:10   draw are we are going to draw it is there i want to read this one bit from [TS]

00:12:14   Tim Cook's or letter there's a whole thing is really good but i really like [TS]

00:12:17   this part on the government is asking Apple to hack our own users and [TS]

00:12:22   undermine decades of security advancements that protect our customers [TS]

00:12:25   including tens of millions of American citizens from sophisticated hackers and [TS]

00:12:29   cyber criminals and here's the to meet the really compelling part of this the [TS]

00:12:33   same engineers who built strong encryption into the iphone to protect [TS]

00:12:38   our users would ironically be ordered to weaken those protections and make our [TS]

00:12:42   users less safe [TS]

00:12:44   and I to me that is really compelling I you know if you're that an engineer at [TS]

00:12:49   apple who works on this security stuff you're more or less your career is [TS]

00:12:53   devoted to only in one direction making things more secure for users and then to [TS]

00:13:00   be compelled to do the exact opposite is I honestly I think it's something that [TS]

00:13:06   some people would object to do that some people would stab you know you can court [TS]

00:13:10   order me to do it but I'm not going to do it and would they be right in some [TS]

00:13:14   sense i mean maybe not like I'm not a lawyer i can't i can't legally that they [TS]

00:13:18   could object but certainly morally great i mean i-i I don't know where this goes [TS]

00:13:27   what if Apple is compelled to do this [TS]

00:13:34   what do they do well I I mean we know what's going to the supreme court either [TS]

00:13:40   way I guess I I honestly don't know how stuff works you know its way through the [TS]

00:13:48   supreme court though in a case where the where the FBI might be saying you know [TS]

00:13:53   time is of the essence you know we want to get this information while it's still [TS]

00:13:57   warm [TS]

00:13:58   you know there's no point to getting it they're not building a case one thing to [TS]

00:14:01   note just in case anybody has forgotten the details of it they're not using this [TS]

00:14:05   to build a criminal case against the San Bernardino shooters because because [TS]

00:14:09   they're dead right so it's really just trying to find actionable intelligence [TS]

00:14:14   that might lead them to discover if they had if there was anybody else involved [TS]

00:14:19   if there's anybody else they know who you know they ought to be looking at who [TS]

00:14:22   might be planning something in the future so it in that case it's you know [TS]

00:14:28   time is of the essence so i don't know i would guess it's going to though I mean [TS]

00:14:33   that and then you know that I that the FBI obviously you know in the Justice [TS]

00:14:37   Department has some sort of path to expedite you know a case to the Supreme [TS]

00:14:42   Court but aren't they using this more as a precedent so that they can say okay [TS]

00:14:47   you you can order to do this and by the way we have these other five phone said [TS]

00:14:52   we needed done on right i think i think that this is all about [TS]

00:14:57   president I think it's less I and again you can you accuse me of being cynical [TS]

00:15:02   and maybe i'm wrong but it it seems to me from what I know of the case that the [TS]

00:15:06   to Center bernardino suspects didn't don't really seem like they were part of [TS]

00:15:11   you know a widespread terrorist group it wasn't like they were really part of [TS]

00:15:18   like al-qaeda or Isis or whatever you know other groups are out there that [TS]

00:15:23   they were just two cooks you know and you know mentally ill and and poisoned [TS]

00:15:30   by it by this ideology but it was it doesn't really seem like they were any [TS]

00:15:34   kind of masterminds I mean it wasn't really a very mean it was a terrible [TS]

00:15:37   tragedy but it really seemed a little bit more bitterly personal that they [TS]

00:15:41   went shot a place where they work and they had you know you know personal [TS]

00:15:44   beefs with the people who who shot it up so I I think logically that the FBI [TS]

00:15:52   making a big cases isn't really about getting information that's going to save [TS]

00:15:56   people you know that they really need it i think it's i think it's about the [TS]

00:16:00   president I mean and that once you've got what if they win this and they get [TS]

00:16:05   this they have a precedent that says we can come now we can use this president [TS]

00:16:10   to compel tech companies not just to give this it give us information that [TS]

00:16:15   they have access to but to force them to write software that gives us the access [TS]

00:16:22   that we want to write I mean and it's all sorts of there's all sorts of [TS]

00:16:26   implications that this brief if you take this president is as logical that all [TS]

00:16:30   sorts of things could happen could they compel Apple to re-engineer I message to [TS]

00:16:35   22 so that it's not end-to-end encrypted anymore right [TS]

00:16:42   and II the the followed from this is endless [TS]

00:16:48   could be but [TS]

00:16:51   so let's look at the other way would have a win i think that nothing I think [TS]

00:16:57   that's you know nothing bad happens I think I mean and I guess other than the [TS]

00:17:01   fact that you know it's possible that in the future case there would be one where [TS]

00:17:07   there's information on a phone that law enforcement as and they can't get to it [TS]

00:17:12   and if they could it would be better for society but that's you know that's sort [TS]

00:17:17   of situation is that that's the price of Liberty right like you can't take I [TS]

00:17:26   don't think you can take the absolute I personally feel very strong you can't [TS]

00:17:29   take the absolutist position that law enforcement should be able to get [TS]

00:17:32   anything and everything they want the elevator that the FBI wins and and now [TS]

00:17:38   Apple has to write the software and break into the phone but what's stopping [TS]

00:17:44   people then just not using Apple's built-in things and using another form [TS]

00:17:51   of happen and strong encryption right do they does the FBI then need to sue that [TS]

00:17:58   company to open up right that's one of the reasons that I feel I honestly feel [TS]

00:18:02   that the FBI is being driven and part of this is really driven by the public [TS]

00:18:08   statements of like FBI director Comey and and others is that a large part of [TS]

00:18:13   this is I hate to say it because I'd like to think that we'd have better [TS]

00:18:18   people in there but people who generally genuinely don't understand the [TS]

00:18:21   technology right and they don't understand that you either either [TS]

00:18:25   everybody has security through encryption or nobody does and that there [TS]

00:18:31   is no way to have security and again i add a couple of people of emphasizes [TS]

00:18:38   there's privacy angles on this but there's I i think the security angle is [TS]

00:18:42   is more compelling and you know it's a little you know some of its conflated [TS]

00:18:49   but it's you know what happens if somebody steals your phone are you leave [TS]

00:18:55   it in a cab and somebody gets it and it's it's not it and it's relatively [TS]

00:19:00   easier there's some sort of known way [TS]

00:19:03   to get to the contents of it well there's that's genuine security problem [TS]

00:19:07   given the information that a lot of us have on our phones but you know [TS]

00:19:10   financial information you know and a personal information you know the photos [TS]

00:19:15   we have and stuff like that [TS]

00:19:16   I it's definitely a security thing but I feel like that the the FBI clearly [TS]

00:19:23   doesn't see this properly that they're looking that they there somehow looking [TS]

00:19:27   for some kind of magic solution but it would it would really like a law that [TS]

00:19:31   that that crippled apples ability just pick one company but are any US company [TS]

00:19:37   that but a US company to do not have secure encryption on these devices would [TS]

00:19:44   really harm them in the worldwide market it truly would because there's [TS]

00:19:49   absolutely nothing [TS]

00:19:50   it wouldn't keep people bad guys from having encryption it would only keep [TS]

00:19:54   them from having encryption out-of-the-box on a us-made device right [TS]

00:19:59   right [TS]

00:20:00   isn't that what I mean that's more or less what you're saying right right yeah [TS]

00:20:03   and ok so the US government win says then every other government is going to [TS]

00:20:10   come and say yeah wewe kind of want to look at this fellow's phone [TS]

00:20:13   absolutely and you know that there's this funny thing and who knows [TS]

00:20:19   by the time the show airs maybe the times will have a separate story about [TS]

00:20:23   it but there was this weird thing I link to yesterday where it was actually [TS]

00:20:27   Edward Snowden was the one whose Twitter account and he's been all over this on [TS]

00:20:34   twitter for obvious reasons on but Edward Snowden noted a passage in a new [TS]

00:20:39   york times story on this that was about China and like within an hour that the [TS]

00:20:45   whole segment of the article was edited out of the new york times article it [TS]

00:20:48   still isn't back but basically here's what it said I'll just read it this is [TS]

00:20:51   from New York Times report [TS]

00:20:53   china is watching the dispute closely analyste the Chinese government does [TS]

00:20:57   take cues from the United States when it comes to encryption regulations and that [TS]

00:21:00   it would most likely demand that multinational companies provide [TS]

00:21:04   accommodation similar to those in the United States last year beijing backed [TS]

00:21:07   off several proposals that would have mandated that foreign firms provide [TS]

00:21:11   providing encryption keys for devices sold in China after [TS]

00:21:15   heavy pressure from foreign trade groups a push from American law enforcement [TS]

00:21:20   agencies to unlock iphones would embolden Beijing to demand the same i [TS]

00:21:27   think it's clear i mean China is just one country i mean why wouldn't every [TS]

00:21:30   country right and then what is Apple's gonna need to open up a brand new [TS]

00:21:35   company just to shoot with all of this stuff right [TS]

00:21:38   I mean does does Apple give the software to the FBI in order to hack it [TS]

00:21:46   themselves or does the FBI give the device to apple an apple doesn't believe [TS]

00:21:52   from what i read of this case that at FBI is offered either way that they've [TS]

00:21:56   said whatever you want if you want to give us the software and have us do it [TS]

00:22:01   we'll do it if you want us to bring the device to you and do it your facilities [TS]

00:22:05   will do that they just want the code but it's a slippery so either way i really [TS]

00:22:10   do think so [TS]

00:22:11   I absolutely and I know that slippery slope arguments it it may be there [TS]

00:22:16   overused you know overall just in our debates about all sorts of stuff but I [TS]

00:22:21   think in this case it really is a slippery slope [TS]

00:22:26   it isn't isn't the government's position that they just want this one device you [TS]

00:22:34   know that's all we want we just want this one device but once that's done [TS]

00:22:38   there's no turning back right because that's how the law works you know it's [TS]

00:22:42   you know one case sets precedent for future cases [TS]

00:22:45   yeah which is why Apple has to take a stand on this one and you know that's [TS]

00:22:50   why I think what what the government did in choosing this case was so strategic [TS]

00:22:56   for yeah i think and again it's you know the basic just about it with you know if [TS]

00:23:03   you really want to talk about good guys and bad guys is that even reasonably [TS]

00:23:08   smart and well-organized bad guys are going to use their own encryption [TS]

00:23:13   software not that necessary that they wrote but that they're going to do you [TS]

00:23:17   know it's obviously is out there and and the u.s. can't stop the rest of the [TS]

00:23:22   world from writing good secure encryption software right um that's it [TS]

00:23:27   they're just going to use [TS]

00:23:28   third-party software if the first party software can and maybe for reasonable [TS]

00:23:33   reasons maybe the smart ones already don't trust anything written by Apple or [TS]

00:23:39   Google or would you know any other US company and they're already doing it and [TS]

00:23:43   the dumb bad guys with their dollars right so why do you need [TS]

00:23:50   why do you need to make everybody software insecure do your job right like [TS]

00:23:55   its it and I guess part of it is that there's an entitlement as in the u.s. [TS]

00:23:58   like law enforcement gets so in the u.s. is in such a privileged position in [TS]

00:24:04   terms of what they get in the way that they're you know they have access to so [TS]

00:24:12   much but that they there's a sense of entitlement that not only should they be [TS]

00:24:16   able to get stuff but they should be able to get whatever they want easily [TS]

00:24:18   and there is you know that's not necessarily the case if the truth is [TS]

00:24:22   that its it really really mathematically difficult or we even to the point of [TS]

00:24:27   calling impossible to break the encryption on the device well tough [TS]

00:24:30   noogies you know I mean you've got that's you know you guys have a tough [TS]

00:24:33   job [TS]

00:24:34   I mean I'm not saying that a glibly and I realized that mistakes can be high in [TS]

00:24:38   a you know a criminal case or in an investigation but that's just the way it [TS]

00:24:42   is it's really it's not that different than arguing a and I go these analogies [TS]

00:24:50   sometimes to the real world can get can get difficult but it's like sometimes [TS]

00:24:58   people will say you know what why would you feel if if somebody kidnapped a [TS]

00:25:04   family member and the police knew where they were but they couldn't break down [TS]

00:25:11   the door [TS]

00:25:13   that's a rough and it's a tough analogy because i don't think there exists like [TS]

00:25:17   a door that the police can't break into right but that sort but like what if you [TS]

00:25:22   could make one what if what if it somebody invents at adore you could [TS]

00:25:26   build a house that that the police can't break into would that be illegal [TS]

00:25:31   not with that there's no law against it now you have to pass a law specifically [TS]

00:25:35   against it right at it [TS]

00:25:36   just that the math is such that we've been able to make virtual locks through [TS]

00:25:42   encryption that are actually unbreakable and the government of all organizations [TS]

00:25:50   tells us to be safe and tells us to you know not necessarily encrypt everything [TS]

00:25:58   but do everything that you can to to protect yourself in your identity and [TS]

00:26:02   and protect all this stuff but as soon as they make it back door then the back [TS]

00:26:08   door is there for everybody and and I don't know what they don't understand [TS]

00:26:13   about that i mean you mentioned it earlier about these people not [TS]

00:26:16   understanding the technology but do they not care that they're making a backdoor [TS]

00:26:23   or do they really not understand that once the back door is there it's there [TS]

00:26:27   for all [TS]

00:26:27   well I'll just out to pick and iíve mentioned Trump before our pics on from [TS]

00:26:31   the other side but I've listened to Hillary Clinton talked about this [TS]

00:26:34   several times and she heard her argument is one of us will put enough smart [TS]

00:26:40   people in a room and I'm sure they'll be able to come up with something and I get [TS]

00:26:46   asked I genuinely think she believes that but it's that's there's you know [TS]

00:26:50   what they're looking for it what day and what they claim that smart people at [TS]

00:26:55   Apple and Google ought to be able to make is is something that the FBI can [TS]

00:26:59   use and no one else can use and that's just not that's not possible [TS]

00:27:03   and there's just you can keep talking in circles about it but there's just no way [TS]

00:27:07   that it could happen so doesn't the government have enough smart people of [TS]

00:27:13   their own that are telling them this is impossible [TS]

00:27:17   I don't know that there must be at it at a certain level one everybody right but [TS]

00:27:22   that may be that they're not because they're not at the you know executive [TS]

00:27:26   ranks that they're you know they're its treated as well that's your argument you [TS]

00:27:31   know here's our argument we want the information and it seems to be kind of a [TS]

00:27:39   you know they've got the blinders on and they can see beyond apple is the [TS]

00:27:46   information they just have to get through apple to get it [TS]

00:27:48   I'm this all fits with something and i think apple is not surprised by this I [TS]

00:27:53   think Apple as I don't you know I know a couple of these articles have have [TS]

00:27:57   really put this as a linchpin of of the Tim Cook era at apple and i'm not quite [TS]

00:28:03   sure how much that has to do with the difference between Tim Cook and steve [TS]

00:28:06   jobs and how much it has to do with just the timing of you know when Jobs got ill [TS]

00:28:12   enough to step down and and cook took over but you know which is when this [TS]

00:28:16   issue became hot you know that that you know it it just coincides you know that [TS]

00:28:23   the transition from from jobs to cook coincides with when this you know the [TS]

00:28:28   cell phones as objects of desire from law enforcement really heated up but the [TS]

00:28:35   gist of it is I heard this years ago from a couple people at Apple was that [TS]

00:28:39   the edict came down from the top from tim cook on down that anything new that [TS]

00:28:45   we create that stores data I we should store in a way that even we can't see it [TS]

00:28:54   so that when we get requests for it we can say we can't give it to you that [TS]

00:28:59   other and that and that anything we already have existing systems that maybe [TS]

00:29:05   don't comply with that they need to be identified and we need to rewrite them [TS]

00:29:10   in a way that that you know protect the data so that we even we can't do it and [TS]

00:29:16   that that's the only way that you know we can have joined and purpose of this [TS]

00:29:20   isn't up to obstruct law enforcement it's that if we don't take that [TS]

00:29:26   philosophy that even we can't get the data then it's not really safe right and [TS]

00:29:32   I I think that goes back a lot to you know where Apple makes its money they [TS]

00:29:38   don't want your data they don't care about your data and and others do so you [TS]

00:29:44   know it's it's reasonable [TS]

00:29:47   I mean the argument that we talked about with Peter it's reasonable to consider [TS]

00:29:51   the fact that other companies have cooperated in the past because they do [TS]

00:29:58   look at the data [TS]

00:30:00   you know so yeah one of the things and another one i know i mentioned earlier [TS]

00:30:05   that i'm really curious about what let's just say if you're a iCloud backup user [TS]

00:30:11   and the FBI comes to apple says we'd like to see Jim Dalrymple's iCloud [TS]

00:30:17   backup [TS]

00:30:18   what did they get I i would love to know that and if there's an answer that Apple [TS]

00:30:22   is given i can couldn't find it so if anybody knows i would love to know the [TS]

00:30:26   other question I have this week and it gets back to your original question of [TS]

00:30:30   why is it Apple that's that's in this fight [TS]

00:30:32   how come we never hear about their they're not you i get none of them are [TS]

00:30:38   US companies accept other than Microsoft luton but like we never hear about [TS]

00:30:42   Samsung or LG or any of these other companies like what do they do when the [TS]

00:30:46   suspect has an android phone [TS]

00:30:48   why is this why is this not in the news at all like what happens is it is it [TS]

00:30:52   that it's it it is it just one of those things where Apple gets headlines and so [TS]

00:30:58   people only write about it when it's apple in the iphone or is it is android [TS]

00:31:03   different and it's you know like a trivial that even when you have a [TS]

00:31:07   passcode that there's some way that they can get the information they want [TS]

00:31:11   I I don't understand why nobody's writing about that and I don't have the [TS]

00:31:15   you know I don't have the perspective of it [TS]

00:31:18   well they're there must be some requests from the government to google for [TS]

00:31:24   information must be [TS]

00:31:26   oh definitely um and the thing about google but that's that's online content [TS]

00:31:33   and who knows maybe it's because if you use an android phone e everybody who [TS]

00:31:37   uses android phones signed up for google and going to google is enough that they [TS]

00:31:42   don't need to go to the right that's what I'm saying you know that they they [TS]

00:31:46   have anything though because there's things like text messages right so [TS]

00:31:49   Android users send a lot of SMS text messages they don't go through google [TS]

00:31:53   right so if the FBI wants to see those they need to get them off the phone and [TS]

00:32:00   I can't help but think that they would want to still want to access the phone [TS]

00:32:03   and I you know does what what percentage of android users back up all of their [TS]

00:32:08   photos too [TS]

00:32:09   google I mean there must be some percentage but is it all [TS]

00:32:12   I don't know ok up I'm gonna throw something out there that making be funny [TS]

00:32:16   but maybe as as we know from on the the things that we see maybe android is just [TS]

00:32:25   so four holes that the FBI can hack it themselves [TS]

00:32:28   yeah that's why add at that sort of what I'm hinting at you know iOS is very [TS]

00:32:37   secure operating system and a lot of it because apple doesn't really care about [TS]

00:32:43   your data they care about your security in your privacy and you know I'm trying [TS]

00:32:50   not to be too you know Fanny here but I i believe that to be true and we we've [TS]

00:32:59   seen the mall where and and things that can infect android phone so what's I [TS]

00:33:06   mean I tend to think that the FBI just sat down with some with smart people and [TS]

00:33:11   said Jack this thing and then they can I yeah I don't know let me take a break [TS]

00:33:19   here and and we come back to it but i'll take a break here and thank our first [TS]

00:33:23   sponsor and it is our good friends at Harry's go to Harry's calm and use the [TS]

00:33:28   promo code talk show just talk show and you will save five bucks off your first [TS]

00:33:34   purchase Harry's offers high-quality razors and blades and other shaving [TS]

00:33:38   products for a fraction of the big razor brands they make their own blades in her [TS]

00:33:45   own factory they bought in Germany was an old razor blade factory in Germany [TS]

00:33:49   they liked it so much they just bought the factory and it's fundamentally this [TS]

00:33:52   is how they sell their stuff for less because there's no middleman they own [TS]

00:33:57   the factory they make the blades that make the products and then you buy it [TS]

00:34:01   from them and they just ship it right to your door and so there's no distributor [TS]

00:34:05   there's no markup for a retail store so you get a better price you get a high [TS]

00:34:11   quality product and you get the convenience of just having this stuff [TS]

00:34:16   show up at your house and you don't have to go buy it there starter set is an [TS]

00:34:19   amazing deal for fifteen bucks you get a razor moisturizing shave cream or gel [TS]

00:34:22   and three razor blades and when you need more blades they're just two bucks each [TS]

00:34:26   or less an eight pack for example is just 15 and 16 pack is 25 [TS]

00:34:31   I'd love their packaging i love their style I love the way they write a couple [TS]

00:34:36   of months ago they sent me this they have a new thing here daily face wash [TS]

00:34:40   ah so it is what i use in the shower when I wash my face and it's sort of [TS]

00:34:43   like a a gritty type thing and I like it feels it's got like some kind of grit to [TS]

00:34:48   it but I read the instructions because i'm in the am an idiot and I actually [TS]

00:34:51   always look for stuff like this [TS]

00:34:53   these are beings these are there instructions here's how this is what how [TS]

00:34:57   they to use the face wash wash as only you would a little bit goes a long way [TS]

00:35:03   caution not the eyes that's lovely [TS]

00:35:09   right because you don't really need it's in other words [TS]

00:35:12   hey dummy I you know how to wash your face and be and I had my favorite part [TS]

00:35:17   is a little bit goes a long way I you know just to put a little bit little bit [TS]

00:35:20   ago and you know again hey dummy don't put in your eyes there you go that's it [TS]

00:35:25   so great stuff great style that good that even the hardware handles on [TS]

00:35:31   everything on the razor's all great stuff go there go to Harry's . calm and [TS]

00:35:35   remember that promo code talk show and you will save five bucks off your first [TS]

00:35:39   purchase well to harry's if I if I can tell you something I actually use [TS]

00:35:44   Harry's as big of a beard as I have you know i get a trim up the sides and stuff [TS]

00:35:50   i am I have the full Harry's kit so there you go [TS]

00:35:56   the true true story [TS]

00:35:59   well I don't is there more to say about the FBI Apple case at the moment maybe [TS]

00:36:04   not [TS]

00:36:05   I i do you believe what the FBI says and do you believe what apple says I believe [TS]

00:36:14   what apple says and I think they're very careful i think they are in it's just a [TS]

00:36:19   hallmark of Tim Cook is is a an end i would say without question the biggest [TS]

00:36:28   difference between cook and jobs is that jobs would with [TS]

00:36:34   fly off the handle and you know just a small example but remember in 2007 when [TS]

00:36:43   it was people first iphone came out people how can we can write native apps [TS]

00:36:48   and he was he said I you don't you know you're bad you write a bad native apple [TS]

00:36:52   bring down the whole west coast phone network now I there's an argument to be [TS]

00:37:00   made that did you know like what if it was a super popular app like Facebook [TS]

00:37:04   and what if there was a terrible bug that it [TS]

00:37:07   you no-good kept the data connection on full-time if the app is installed it [TS]

00:37:12   there's some you know it's not it's completely dead but it wasn't a good [TS]

00:37:16   answer but that's jobs right where's Tim Cook Tim Cook is is so he's like a [TS]

00:37:22   surgeon with every word out of his mouth in public [TS]

00:37:25   yes and I do i believe that i don't think there's anything that Apple said [TS]

00:37:31   at least an open letter that I even raised an eyebrow [TS]

00:37:36   me neither I mean the only thing that I think is up for debate is whether [TS]

00:37:40   qualifies as a back door and the only reason i'd say that and Tim Cook says [TS]

00:37:45   you know and even admit it says in the letter the FBI is using different words [TS]

00:37:49   i call it a back door but he's even acknowledging he's he's careful enough [TS]

00:37:53   and fair enough that even acknowledges that there's a debate over whether [TS]

00:37:57   backdoors the right word and I think that argument that it's not a backdoor [TS]

00:38:00   is that a backdoor maybe you could argue is something that Apple ships to [TS]

00:38:04   everybody and it's in in the phone that you buy from apple it's already there [TS]

00:38:10   you know that it that this is something that the FBI and that's not what the FBI [TS]

00:38:16   is asking for their not asking the FBI is not asking Apple to to push at a [TS]

00:38:19   software update to every iphone out in the world that would let them bypass the [TS]

00:38:24   passcode they're saying do this just one but you know given the videos at Tim [TS]

00:38:29   Cook said I believe him get with the FBI i don't know i think i think one [TS]

00:38:33   argument a couple people made including john mcafee come on the show ends right [TS]

00:38:41   now [TS]

00:38:42   come on come on you don't it's either the FBI is lying and they have hackers [TS]

00:38:49   on their staff who could break in to get this passcode right now or they're [TS]

00:38:53   incompetent because they should be able to like why can't they go to write down [TS]

00:38:57   the street to the NSA and and have this thing unlocked and I find it very [TS]

00:39:02   difficult to believe that the NSA couldn't do this and that if it was if [TS]

00:39:07   this one phone really was that important that they would do that and i find that [TS]

00:39:12   disingenuous that's and it's also what makes me think it's about the legal [TS]

00:39:15   precedent not the actual information on the San Bernardino suspects phone so you [TS]

00:39:20   you think that the NSA could hack this iphone on their own [TS]

00:39:26   I don't have any reason to believe that are not that i have reasonably but i [TS]

00:39:30   don't have proof i can't prove that for the obvious reason that you know what [TS]

00:39:35   the NSA keeps everything all of their capabilities secret but if I had to bet [TS]

00:39:40   all i would bet heavily that the NSA if you could could access the information [TS]

00:39:45   on this first so why bother going through all this [TS]

00:39:48   why not just going to get the president but what does the president actually [TS]

00:39:51   matter if they can hack it [TS]

00:39:54   well I think because going forward in the future there they're concerned about [TS]

00:39:58   the ever-escalating security of these phones and I guess that's one area where [TS]

00:40:03   we could talk about where you know what is one of the aspects of this is [TS]

00:40:08   whatever happens to apple in the courts on this case I think it's only going to [TS]

00:40:14   motivate them to further cleverly design the encryption mechanisms on the iphone [TS]

00:40:23   to make it impossible in the future to even comply with a request like this [TS]

00:40:30   so here's something we don't know and it's a little technical and hopefully i [TS]

00:40:35   will keep this straight enough that i'm going to be accurate but the phone and [TS]

00:40:40   in this case is an iphone 5c the San Bernardino phone and 5c is before the [TS]

00:40:45   secure Enclave and before touch ID and that makes it a simpler case [TS]

00:40:51   cryptographically to to get we're starting with the iphone 5s and going [TS]

00:40:59   forward the phones iPhones with the touch ID and the secure Enclave now [TS]

00:41:06   touch idea sort of irrelevant but it's the phones that have touch ID that have [TS]

00:41:10   the secure Enclave they use the secure Enclave in the path of encryption to [TS]

00:41:18   enforce it and so one of the things that limits the rate of so mathematically and [TS]

00:41:24   you don't really have to i even i really i have a computer science degree and I [TS]

00:41:28   did really well in math and I really this stuff really boggles my mind I [TS]

00:41:32   could but basically one of the keys used to encrypt the data on the phone is on [TS]

00:41:38   the secure Enclave and so as you know the the phone [TS]

00:41:42   iOS verifies that the passcode is correct it goes through the secure [TS]

00:41:47   Enclave in this year secure Enclave adds its key and there's no way to get that [TS]

00:41:51   key from iOS it just says okay secure Enclave here's the pass code that was [TS]

00:41:55   sent now output of that you give me the thing that lets me decrypted and it's [TS]

00:42:03   the secure Enclave that in forces this 80 millisecond time between brute-force [TS]

00:42:09   attempts which isn't that long except that if you want to do millions of them [TS]

00:42:13   to get like a six digit passcode 80 milliseconds means it takes a lot longer [TS]

00:42:19   to go through all of them than it would otherwise [TS]

00:42:21   and if you use an alphanumeric password captive if you're really concerned about [TS]

00:42:25   security in your phone and you use letters and numbers on the passcode it [TS]

00:42:29   really does make it the 80 milliseconds attempt between decryption attempts [TS]

00:42:33   really does make it timewise impossible [TS]

00:42:37   the question is [TS]

00:42:39   can Apple be forced to put like a flash update on the secure Enclave tote to [TS]

00:42:47   eliminate the 80 millisecond time between attempts and I think Apple [TS]

00:42:54   hasn't said publicly but reading between the lines I think the answer right now [TS]

00:42:59   might be yes and what somebody said was that for example like the iphone 5s [TS]

00:43:05   shipped with the secure Enclave and it didn't have that 80 milliseconds [TS]

00:43:08   enforcement between attempts and a software update later on added it [TS]

00:43:15   so if they can add something like that to secure Enclave they can obviously [TS]

00:43:19   take it away [TS]

00:43:20   the question is and I don't know that Apple's I don't think they want to say [TS]

00:43:26   his kid knows flash updates to the secure Enclave today [TS]

00:43:31   can they happen while the phone is locked because that's you know the whole [TS]

00:43:36   point is if the phone is already locked [TS]

00:43:38   maybe they can't flash update the secure Enclave to change the passcode right [TS]

00:43:43   it's like you [TS]

00:43:44   it's a catch-22 but if you can that might be something that Apple is very [TS]

00:43:51   strongly looking at the future to say well now we're going to engineer we're [TS]

00:43:54   going to have you know Johnny's Guruji's team engineer and secure Enclave where [TS]

00:43:58   this 80 milliseconds attempt between passcode attempts is hardwired into the [TS]

00:44:03   silicon and there's nothing we can do about it [TS]

00:44:05   I and it's got to be other things that they're looking at going forward like I [TS]

00:44:10   don't think we are at the end of apples how we secure your data on the phone i [TS]

00:44:15   think the every single year I in the last five years that the system has [TS]

00:44:21   gotten more clever and more completely sealed up so that even Apple can't do [TS]

00:44:27   anything with it [TS]

00:44:28   what if what if Apple so did they they lose this case and they say okay we will [TS]

00:44:35   give you this information but then they lock up the next operating system even [TS]

00:44:39   tighter so that there is no possible way I don't even know if that's possible [TS]

00:44:43   right [TS]

00:44:45   no I think it has to be though I definitely think it's possible to lock [TS]

00:44:48   it [TS]

00:44:49   tighter i think that that they could you know create it definitely create a [TS]

00:44:55   system where the the the the flash beam of the rom whatever you want to call it [TS]

00:45:00   the code that runs on the the secure enclosure where it can't be can't be [TS]

00:45:06   updated while the phone is locked i think that's definitely technically [TS]

00:45:09   technically possible i mean i could be wrong but I think it is so what does the [TS]

00:45:15   government do then does it go to court and say you can't make your OS any [TS]

00:45:21   stronger I and right and at that point I you know I guess they could try to pass [TS]

00:45:29   the law but and they really do start running up against issues like a that [TS]

00:45:35   would cripple us tech companies competitively worldwide absolutely would [TS]

00:45:41   be the crippling I mean who would want the US tech product if if they knew that [TS]

00:45:46   by mandated by US law that it had to be you know insecure and be i think that [TS]

00:45:51   there's a very strong constitutional argument that that's a violation of free [TS]

00:45:55   speech you know that that code is speech and saying you can't write code that [TS]

00:46:00   that does this is you know it's more or less saying that this you know this form [TS]

00:46:06   of mathematics is illegal [TS]

00:46:08   oh what a case i really do think it comes down to a sense of entitlement on [TS]

00:46:13   law enforcement that they feel like any any information that exists they should [TS]

00:46:16   be able to access and they they're unwilling to wrap their heads around the [TS]

00:46:19   idea that there's that were coming to a point where there will exist information [TS]

00:46:23   in the universe that they simply can't get I mean that i keep thinking and [TS]

00:46:29   again this isn't really a legal arguments to sort of a philosophical [TS]

00:46:31   argument but they've never had a right to the information in your head and in [TS]

00:46:38   fact the US Constitution US Constitution as the the Fifth Amendment which means [TS]

00:46:44   that you have a right not to incriminate yourself and so the you know if you [TS]

00:46:53   invoke it that you know even if you committed a crime [TS]

00:46:56   you cannot be forced to admit it in court [TS]

00:46:59   in some sense again this is not speaking legally but philosophically the [TS]

00:47:08   information on your phone is in some way an extension of what's in your head [TS]

00:47:11   right like the pictures you've taken our things you've seen that you want to [TS]

00:47:15   remember the notes you've written yourself or your your notes [TS]

00:47:18   ah I just don't think it's that outlandish philosophically that you [TS]

00:47:23   could have a phone that is so securely encrypted that if if law enforcement [TS]

00:47:30   takes it that they can't access it any more so than that they don't have a [TS]

00:47:34   right to go read your mind or force you to to testify against yourself how long [TS]

00:47:41   this case go on [TS]

00:47:43   I don't know I can't help but think it's I this particular case who knows but I [TS]

00:47:49   feel like the the argument isn't going to stop like even if this case gets [TS]

00:47:52   resolved some how quickly it's the next one coming is is is going to be the same [TS]

00:47:58   i I'm believe that this will go all the way to the Supreme Court because I don't [TS]

00:48:03   think either side we'll just let it fall but if they lose if the government loses [TS]

00:48:16   this case will they try a different tactic mean is there another legal way [TS]

00:48:22   for them to say okay well we argued that this last time but now we are doing this [TS]

00:48:30   I mean is this going to go on forever [TS]

00:48:32   I I i don't know i mean it may be you know i mean one thing we didn't mention [TS]

00:48:38   is that the that the the the foundation of the FBI's request and the judge that [TS]

00:48:43   the judge granted against apple is based on a the all writs Act of 1789 right [TS]

00:48:49   yeah it's so basing this on a law from 1789 would suggest that the law really [TS]

00:48:55   didn't have encrypted cell phones in mind [TS]

00:48:59   so how long lost or damaged it so that two of the things that I've taken away [TS]

00:49:06   this week is that one if if the FBI wins this sort of grants them under this [TS]

00:49:12   already [TS]

00:49:13   president that says we can get whatever we you know we can use this ancient law [TS]

00:49:16   to get whatever we want and we have this very powerful ability to force tech [TS]

00:49:21   companies to help us you know by writing new code and and stuff like that so that [TS]

00:49:29   would be good for the FBI from their perspective I don't think that's good [TS]

00:49:32   public policy I think that's terrible but from the law enforcement perspective [TS]

00:49:36   that would be they would see that as a win and I think if they lose this is why [TS]

00:49:40   I almost feel like the FBI might see this as a no-lose situation is if they [TS]

00:49:44   lose then they go to Congress and say look the law on the book we just tried [TS]

00:49:49   it we have to you know they go to they go to the Congress and they say we have [TS]

00:49:54   to be able to get this stuff to keep people safe from these crazy terrorists [TS]

00:50:00   that's very compelling to a lot of politicians who either believe it or be [TS]

00:50:06   cowardly you know it just don't want to be seen in on the wrong side of [TS]

00:50:10   terrorism right of beings quote-unquote strong against terrorism and they go to [TS]

00:50:17   Congress and say look we just fried with this law that's on the books and it we [TS]

00:50:21   lost so we need you to pass a new law that says blah about you know encryption [TS]

00:50:28   and and stuff like that and i think the only good solution for us publicly would [TS]

00:50:34   be if if that fails to but I feel like the FBI might suspect that they've got [TS]

00:50:38   that the support on in Congress to do that here's a question for you i wanted [TS]

00:50:46   to ask before we move off it is this does being a Canadian give you a [TS]

00:50:53   different perspective on this because I feel like Americans are often too [TS]

00:50:56   insular and we see these things as us only issues and just simply being on the [TS]

00:51:01   other side of the us-canadian border does it give you a different perspective [TS]

00:51:05   you know it's we we don't really have a lot of things like this that would come [TS]

00:51:15   up you know I I can't see the canadian government suing apple you know it's [TS]

00:51:23   just it [TS]

00:51:26   it's just not something that doesn't give did you have a sense that you don't [TS]

00:51:30   have liked him but implicit trust of the US Department of Justice I know I I [TS]

00:51:39   don't think it's I don't think it's that I think we're more or more trusting [TS]

00:51:47   then what you guys are of your government we may not likely [TS]

00:51:52   you know our government will put in new taxes which they do all the time and we [TS]

00:51:58   just allen bosh turning that's awful but you know we paid that's fine you know [TS]

00:52:06   where you guys me Brian like no no you're not gonna do that [TS]

00:52:11   the thing I keep thinking about too is just that it the stuff is all so new [TS]

00:52:15   it's only 20 25 years that anybody really you know public you know typical [TS]

00:52:19   people had access to computers and computer networking and law enforcement [TS]

00:52:22   work just fine before that it's just it's not like everything that they used [TS]

00:52:27   to be able to do before their cell phones that they night they can't do [TS]

00:52:31   anymore it's just new information and new a new source of evidence that that [TS]

00:52:36   they have had access to but if they don't have access to it if they can't [TS]

00:52:41   get anything they want off an iphone that has a strong passcode on it i don't [TS]

00:52:45   think that that means that law enforcement can't do its job well and [TS]

00:52:49   then but the difference between then and now is that then the bad guys weren't [TS]

00:52:56   using cell phones either so there were they were recording information in [TS]

00:53:00   different ways that that the government could have access to what you know so if [TS]

00:53:08   they're if they're now using the cell phones to record all of their [TS]

00:53:11   information and the government can access that then that you know there is [TS]

00:53:15   an argument that they don't have access like they used to but you know i'm still [TS]

00:53:20   drawn back to to what you said about the NSA does if the NSA has access and this [TS]

00:53:28   seems like a dangerous move for the government to do for a precedent that [TS]

00:53:33   they might not need [TS]

00:53:36   you know and I don't know it could be it could be a bad move if they can get it i [TS]

00:53:44   mean i don't understand why they just wouldn't say and whatever you know you [TS]

00:53:49   don't need to give us that we've got access any way to anything that we want [TS]

00:53:53   I really don't think that they do [TS]

00:53:56   ok could the iphone be that good that they don't know it's it you know you [TS]

00:54:03   never know what the n.o in the end of the NSA knows of a flaw in the scheme [TS]

00:54:07   they're going to keep their mouths shut about it but it's it does seem to me [TS]

00:54:10   that Apple is moving towards creating a complete system that can you know can [TS]

00:54:16   mathematically be shown that it can't be can't be broken with the combination of [TS]

00:54:21   you know with the secure Enclave and when and with all the various ways that [TS]

00:54:28   the keys are stored to to get everything encrypted or unencrypted boy wearing for [TS]

00:54:35   how long do you think that this initial part will take is this i got a $MONEY a [TS]

00:54:41   month thing or I don't know i have a yeah I guess I know apples been given [TS]

00:54:46   tulle fabric we're recording on februari 19 and I know they have like one week to [TS]

00:54:52   file their response so i think you know a couple of months i'm guessing i'll [TS]

00:55:02   take this break in the show and thank our second sponsor and it's our good [TS]

00:55:06   friends at Squarespace you can go to squarespace.com / the talk show and find [TS]

00:55:14   out more [TS]

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00:55:22   type stuff for your website [TS]

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00:55:29   they know that people's needs very ah so here's three of the new things that [TS]

00:55:36   they've launched cover pages are single page websites that are perfect for when [TS]

00:55:40   your ideas just starting out you know what I do a single page website is [TS]

00:55:43   something that you have a new thing to announce you have a big headline at the [TS]

00:55:45   top and all the information goes right down the page one big squirrel [TS]

00:55:49   thing they have got they've got that set up so if you have to type of site you [TS]

00:55:52   need [TS]

00:55:52   Squarespace already has you covered Squarespace commerce is robust enough to [TS]

00:55:56   be both your online storefront and business manager so if you want to keep [TS]

00:56:01   track of inventory and you want to have a whole variety of products that you [TS]

00:56:05   show people and let them sell and have all of the ecommerce stuff and the [TS]

00:56:09   security stuff in the credit card processing go through Squarespace [TS]

00:56:12   commerce already has you covered [TS]

00:56:15   Squarespace websites is another one that helps you provide beautiful versatile [TS]

00:56:20   templates that help you create the online home that you've always wanted [TS]

00:56:23   that's a multi-page deeper website they have so many templates to choose from [TS]

00:56:29   it's ridiculous they look so professional any kind of new website [TS]

00:56:32   that you want to create you really ought to look at Squarespace first and give it [TS]

00:56:36   half an hour give it an hour and see how far you get and you'll find out a lot of [TS]

00:56:41   the cases most of the time you're already most of the way done to just [TS]

00:56:45   being finished and launching so go there and check it out if you have any kind of [TS]

00:56:49   need for a new website you can start with a free trial [TS]

00:56:54   it's squarespace.com / the talk show and remember this use this code daring dar [TS]

00:57:02   ing I and use that when you pay [TS]

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00:57:10   and then when you go to pay maybe don't remember the code just remember the code [TS]

00:57:13   daring dar ing and you will save ten percent so you'll save big bucks and you [TS]

00:57:20   get a beautiful website my thanks to Squarespace [TS]

00:57:23   alright what about my interview last week with the Federation q2 it i did i [TS]

00:57:29   did actually it was it was great I I thought and I thought it was a great [TS]

00:57:34   interview and you know you got some scoops in there too was all yeah I [TS]

00:57:40   wasn't expecting that [TS]

00:57:41   it's like they didn't say hey we're going to give you some stuff it's like [TS]

00:57:44   when when any stress head saying that I really kind of expect I was like am i [TS]

00:57:51   listening am i hearing this right that you're giving me this information that [TS]

00:57:53   I'm pretty sure never came out before I was ready to hear and like get like a [TS]

00:57:56   punch in the shoulder from like I thought it was really good interview [TS]

00:58:05   they were they were very open and and it you know it kind of seemed like just [TS]

00:58:14   three guys sitting around chatting well that's definitely the case i mean in the [TS]

00:58:19   argument against it would be and it seemed like you know I worried [TS]

00:58:23   afterwards that maybe I didn't ask good enough questions I hard questions maybe [TS]

00:58:28   the wrong term to use but maybe I that I didn't press quite hard enough i really [TS]

00:58:32   was worried afterwards and then the show came out and I read all the reactions i [TS]

00:58:36   read all the emails i read all the tweets and most people seem to really [TS]

00:58:39   like it but there were definitely some people are like dude you asked this [TS]

00:58:42   question and they didn't give a straight answer and you didn't press him on it [TS]

00:58:46   and your eyes gonna have that though you mean you and I've been doing this long [TS]

00:58:51   enough to know that no matter what we ask but people are going to react like [TS]

00:58:56   that and my take on it is well at least I asked and I thought even the ones that [TS]

00:59:05   they didn't answer straightforwardly they at least they weren't there their [TS]

00:59:08   answers weren't completely empty [TS]

00:59:10   you know and and I know that they're you know it they're both surprisingly good [TS]

00:59:18   this is the thing that blows me away it'sit's is for two people who don't do [TS]

00:59:22   podcast regularly I know [TS]

00:59:24   federighi was on the show back in December to talk about Swift I don't [TS]

00:59:28   know that eq I don't know these ever done a podcast before I've seen him on [TS]

00:59:31   interviews like a tree code or something like that but he doesn't do it a lot [TS]

00:59:35   but it's a they came across as like naturals right yeah and I know that [TS]

00:59:41   there's no way that if they're not going to answer the first time they're not [TS]

00:59:43   going to answer if I if I reinsert it and then all of a sudden it the [TS]

00:59:49   discussion loses the the flow [TS]

00:59:53   yeah well I i think that you've got a lot of great information i think that [TS]

00:59:58   yes [TS]

00:59:58   yes [TS]

01:00:00   I I mean I text to do when i listen to it last week and and said you know is [TS]

01:00:08   great interview it was informative it was you know entertaining so you [TS]

01:00:17   actually got a lot more than what i would have suspected I the one thing [TS]

01:00:23   that I think is interesting is the it goes beyond any words that actually came [TS]

01:00:29   out of either of their mouth is the fact that the interview happened at all shows [TS]

01:00:34   that Apple definitely cares about this whole perception of apple software being [TS]

01:00:42   in decline right or being are having less Karen thought put into it than [TS]

01:00:50   their hardware and that Apple at the fact that the interview happened at all [TS]

01:00:53   shows that Apple wants to counter that which I thought was interesting and so [TS]

01:00:59   any sort of you know thought that apple doesn't pay attention to these [TS]

01:01:02   discussions you know a on the outside I i think it's clear that they do up to [TS]

01:01:11   that very highest levels of the company [TS]

01:01:12   yeah i agree i mean i've interviewed any before never interviewed Craig but [TS]

01:01:21   interviewed any before and you know me a he's a great guy i really like getting [TS]

01:01:27   and you know I didn't I think their personalities came across in the [TS]

01:01:35   interview that you gave I mean yeah it's great to get the the information but [TS]

01:01:38   they could have been you know what blankets and the interview too and it [TS]

01:01:42   would have been very difficult and then you know maybe that's when you start [TS]

01:01:46   asking the questions just no answer this one question if there is one and it's [TS]

01:01:54   always the case that there's always at least one it's like it's all over like [TS]

01:01:59   it stopped and the recording is over and I think that's great and immediately I [TS]

01:02:03   like oh I knew the one question I wanted [TS]

01:02:05   this is I really wanted to ask Eddie and I can't believe I forgot it or just it [TS]

01:02:11   was in my notes but it just never seemed to come up in the flow is I wanted to [TS]

01:02:14   ask Eddie if he himself has ever hit the bug where your iphone or your iOS device [TS]

01:02:22   could be iphone could be ipad but your iOS device starts asking you for your [TS]

01:02:25   iCloud password and you enter it and then it like a second goes by and then [TS]

01:02:32   it comes the same dialogue comes back up and then you enter it and it goes away [TS]

01:02:36   just long enough that you think okay its stock and then it comes back and it [TS]

01:02:40   doesn't say your password was incorrect and like when it when it when I hit this [TS]

01:02:46   you know and I think everybody's part of the same way where you can kind of enter [TS]

01:02:50   your iCloud password pretty fast and go do it and then this when you hit this [TS]

01:02:55   bug which I know exists i just you know I've seen firsthand I know other people [TS]

01:02:59   talk about it but then like by the third time you start entering your password [TS]

01:03:02   very very carefully [TS]

01:03:04   yeah you like me like you do one character at a time and finger and you [TS]

01:03:09   actually look at the pop-up letters as they come [TS]

01:03:12   and then you hit return and then it goes away and you think oh that's all the end [TS]

01:03:17   then then it comes back up i wanted to ask any that and I didn't and damn it I [TS]

01:03:21   really regret it [TS]

01:03:22   were you satisfied with the with the way that the conversation went to meet ya i [TS]

01:03:27   dont really was i I worry deeply about it because I I don't feel like being in [TS]

01:03:33   that role of interviewing people like that it is comes naturally to me so I [TS]

01:03:37   mean I I stressed don't I hope it didn't sound that way but I stress greatly [TS]

01:03:41   about it before [TS]

01:03:42   no it didn't sound that way and he said I thought it was a really entertaining [TS]

01:03:49   interview I think that implicit in their response to the issue of the software [TS]

01:03:54   you know being in decline is that I thought one of the most interesting [TS]

01:03:59   answers to that was Craig federighi said that the bar is being raised its higher [TS]

01:04:07   than ever and then that's in terms of expectations that we have for how [TS]

01:04:12   reliable everything will work and how polished everything will be [TS]

01:04:16   I thought that was it you know again is it's sort of a non-answer [TS]

01:04:22   maybe but I think it's an interesting way of looking at it and that we [TS]

01:04:25   collectively see these problems now simply because we have higher higher [TS]

01:04:31   expectations [TS]

01:04:32   ok so let's let's look at that [TS]

01:04:36   why do we have higher expectations i think it's because Apple gives us higher [TS]

01:04:44   expectations you know where we're not I don't think that we as consumers are [TS]

01:04:51   saying Apple you know your your software is awful it it seems to me more that [TS]

01:04:58   Apple is saying you know when they do events and stuff [TS]

01:05:02   our software is great and ninety-nine percent of the time it really is great [TS]

01:05:09   but then when that one percent hits it's like okay this assistance so great I so [TS]

01:05:21   are we just holding apple up to their own of words and and what they say about [TS]

01:05:26   their software or are we being unfair and saying now iphone i don't think we [TS]

01:05:32   are being unfair and I think that it's it is central to the entire reason [TS]

01:05:39   Apple's own you know there's a lot of times where we're in other cases where [TS]

01:05:45   Apple seems to be held [TS]

01:05:47   he either by a publication or just one individual pundit or somebody to an [TS]

01:05:51   unreasonably high standard that other companies are held to and I call them [TS]

01:05:56   out sometimes you call them out you know other you know and mac elope calls them [TS]

01:06:01   out all the time [TS]

01:06:03   this is a case though where I think Apple itself asks to be held to a higher [TS]

01:06:09   standard right that Apple itself proclaims that our products because we [TS]

01:06:15   do the hope you know this is their story that because we do the whole thing we [TS]

01:06:19   control the software and the hardware integration between them we provide an [TS]

01:06:23   overall better experience then [TS]

01:06:25   our competitors who don't have that whole you know software and hardware [TS]

01:06:31   story to tell [TS]

01:06:32   they say that that's the Apple story right and I've long thought that that's [TS]

01:06:36   the you know that the can Apple succeed in the long run at yes but i think that [TS]

01:06:45   the only way they succeed in the long run is by continually providing a better [TS]

01:06:51   overall experience you know and and blurring the lines between hardware and [TS]

01:06:57   software and i think that overall they've done a great job with that you [TS]

01:07:01   know even even when you look at the integration between devices [TS]

01:07:07   I mean not just the integration between hardware and software but the [TS]

01:07:10   integration between ipad Mac iPhone you know that handoff and and I message [TS]

01:07:19   being everywhere and you know all that kind of stuff I I that makes the devices [TS]

01:07:24   more useful for me [TS]

01:07:26   Oh tremendously for me but it's I feel like that's one of those things that [TS]

01:07:30   where there's you know for so many I handoff works great for me and I do it [TS]

01:07:34   all the time where I'll be like walking around the house making coffee or [TS]

01:07:36   something and reading something on my phone and I want to link to it from [TS]

01:07:42   daring fireball but why not just wait till I get to my desk and do it from my [TS]

01:07:46   imac we have a nice keyboard and all i do is just sit down at my desk while the [TS]

01:07:50   phone is still open and right there at the side of my doc is the little hand [TS]

01:07:53   off you know Safari thing so i click one button and you know a second later the [TS]

01:07:59   webpage that was on my phone is now I click one button on on my mac and that [TS]

01:08:04   thing on my phone is now on my I think my phone is now on my Mac yeah and it [TS]

01:08:09   works great from but with you know a 700 million I cloud users is there you know [TS]

01:08:15   are there a million of them for whom that doesn't work for reasons they don't [TS]

01:08:19   understand you know is is 99.9 percent of people having it work good enough [TS]

01:08:26   how do you know and how do you solve it for them that the last ten percent well [TS]

01:08:30   i think you know one thing then that we all know is that there's always going to [TS]

01:08:35   be problems and bugs with software you know and and [TS]

01:08:39   more accepting of that I i really believe that we are accepting of that [TS]

01:08:44   and you know if you look at something like iCloud people I quad is is a [TS]

01:08:49   favorite one of the favorite whipping horses of of people for me Ike works [TS]

01:08:58   great i called services work great and I think a lot of it comes down to how we [TS]

01:09:02   use it so i use iCloud more like more like God I got consumer you know [TS]

01:09:12   yeah and I'll give one example that i know i know i'm not alone with is the [TS]

01:09:18   sinking of the text shortcuts so in other words the black if you set up in [TS]

01:09:26   like a text the way that OS 10 and iOS have like a text at a simple text [TS]

01:09:31   expander like system where you can have a little shortcut like you type addr and [TS]

01:09:37   then expands to your full address i was bedeviled for months with an inability [TS]

01:09:45   they're supposed to sync between devices and four months I was absolutely [TS]

01:09:49   bedeviled by sinking problems between them [TS]

01:09:52   we're just all sorts of craziness would happen where they'd be doubled where [TS]

01:09:58   they all of a sudden none of them are on my phone and sometimes online [TS]

01:10:03   I mean anything that could go wrong went wrong all of a sudden my Mac went back [TS]

01:10:06   two or one of my max would go back to like the default ones that the ship when [TS]

01:10:11   it's brand-new and I think I I'd think that what happened was that it had the [TS]

01:10:18   problems initially happened for me when I was running the iOS 9 beta last summer [TS]

01:10:23   my own and that something got corrupted in my icloud account that even after iOS [TS]

01:10:30   came out of iOS 9 came out of beta that something was wrong with those two [TS]

01:10:34   keyboard shortcuts or text shortcuts whatever they call them and then four [TS]

01:10:39   months afterwards it was all messed up and eventually though it just it got [TS]

01:10:46   fixed lag end of it [TS]

01:10:48   knock on wood but for like the last few months [TS]

01:10:51   it just works and I've even like doubted myself and just gone there and [TS]

01:10:56   painstakingly i beheld my phone up to my mac and scroll both lists to make sure [TS]

01:11:01   that there's not like I just know there's gonna be one missing and I get [TS]

01:11:05   to the bottom and be like damn they're all there and they're all the same and [TS]

01:11:09   so I you know I don't know who knows how that happen who knows if it fixed itself [TS]

01:11:13   who knows if somebody at Apple fixed a bug figured it out and did it but even [TS]

01:11:19   when stuff like that happens and again I don't want to be seen here as as a [TS]

01:11:24   wholly on Apple side of this argument but i do think though that that it's [TS]

01:11:30   easy for somebody who's experienced the same thing to look at the syncing [TS]

01:11:35   between those texture cuts as buggy because i was buggy and to overlook the [TS]

01:11:39   fact that it's not buggy right now I know security Syracuse is always talk on [TS]

01:11:43   ATP that heat he can't get his addresses to sink right yeah and i gotta tell you [TS]

01:11:49   i have i have not had a problem with address sinking in iCloud at ever i mean [TS]

01:11:54   i've been using it since it was called you know I tools or whatever it usable [TS]

01:11:59   format home maybe back then maybe back then I had some i don't know i didn't [TS]

01:12:05   even have an iphone back then so I don't know what I was thinking it too so maybe [TS]

01:12:08   I wouldn't even know what if i had some problems but at least in recent years [TS]

01:12:11   my address is definitely sink and they sink fast I yeah I don't have problems [TS]

01:12:15   with calendars with contacts I don't have problems thinking any of that stuff [TS]

01:12:20   i don't have problems with iCloud Drive you know it sinks I mean you could you [TS]

01:12:25   could reasonably make the argument should I call dr be more like Dropbox [TS]

01:12:30   and II short time but looking at the service as it is I don't have problems [TS]

01:12:37   with how works and you know when the the problems that we do have like this [TS]

01:12:45   password thing just seem to be so bizarre it is it is it something that's [TS]

01:12:52   you know it can't be unique to to just one person obviously because a lot of [TS]

01:12:57   people have a butt is a unique to set up i don't know you know [TS]

01:13:01   so I you know I think that they're getting there [TS]

01:13:05   I think that's the gist of it I do worry i do worry that one of the reasons and I [TS]

01:13:11   I just don't think it's deniable [TS]

01:13:14   I mean this is the bike when the whole thing that started this new round of [TS]

01:13:18   Apple softwares is not as good as it used to be or not as good as it should [TS]

01:13:22   be however way you want to phrase it started with mossberg solemn and then [TS]

01:13:26   the same day you and I both wrote about it in my take is that that my angle was [TS]

01:13:31   that one thing I think is undeniable is that it is true that the software is not [TS]

01:13:35   as good as the hardware but maybe that's just the way it has to be because the [TS]

01:13:39   hardware is is in some ways simpler and that it's certain aspects of the [TS]

01:13:45   hardware half to be bug free like you can't there's no way that they can do a [TS]

01:13:51   software upgrade of the camera lens okay yeah and so the requirements of that and [TS]

01:13:57   and so the hare said there's another argument this is it is does the ability [TS]

01:14:01   to do software updates make apple way and anybody else who can do them make [TS]

01:14:06   them lazy about shipping quote you know be quality software because they know [TS]

01:14:10   they can make it a quality software over the air or they think they can wear as [TS]

01:14:14   you know is it different than any old days where the software had to be [TS]

01:14:17   printed on a CD or DVD or if you want to go back further floppy disks and if [TS]

01:14:23   there was a bug that bug might never get fixed by the by the consumer because [TS]

01:14:28   software updates were so hard to distribute I get used to be a big big [TS]

01:14:34   deal to ship the gold master of of pieces off [TS]

01:14:37   oh yeah was huge and and not that like an OS update still isn't taken seriously [TS]

01:14:42   or or or you know that there's all sorts of you know rigorous quality-control [TS]

01:14:46   that it goes through but it's not like it used to be when when hard software [TS]

01:14:53   went through an actual you know effectively it be turned into hardware [TS]

01:14:56   when you put it on it on a disc that's right yeah well I and III think that you [TS]

01:15:02   know for a lot of developers they do think i'll release this now and I can [TS]

01:15:09   fix it but I mean we we we know too that there are [TS]

01:15:14   you can't account for every configuration and you know the the mac [TS]

01:15:20   app store i think has done a lot to to help with every app is going to work at [TS]

01:15:26   least you have that feeling you know these are tested we know they're good [TS]

01:15:34   and we put them out there for sale on the mac app store so that helps all [TS]

01:15:38   night and in the appstore helps a lot i think it's great that Apple has the [TS]

01:15:43   review process that they do with all of the stuff i wonder if some of the Apple [TS]

01:15:48   software could construe the review process sometimes well I wouldn't have a [TS]

01:15:53   lot of stuff that doesn't you know it doesn't follow the sandboxing rules [TS]

01:15:57   wouldn't ya [TS]

01:15:59   although a lot about it today I say that but i know that a lot of that most of [TS]

01:16:02   apples you know own first party apps our sandbox so it's it's not entirely but [TS]

01:16:09   they don't you know if they need to they don't mind giving themselves an [TS]

01:16:11   exemption I thought an interesting angle and i get i don't know if i was [TS]

01:16:18   satisfied with the answer from craig but on the issue of is Apple shifting away [TS]

01:16:23   from monolithic feature updates for os's in other words i think for the last few [TS]

01:16:30   years all the major new features of OS 10 and iOS have been announced at WWDC [TS]

01:16:35   and then they all ship it in the fall when the release versions come out and [TS]

01:16:40   every once in a while they'll be one that maybe waits until the next release [TS]

01:16:44   like remember they're a think like two years ago there was a keychain something [TS]

01:16:50   related to the keychain and it wasn't in the initial versions of either OS book [TS]

01:16:54   but it came out like in the November updates and it was something there was [TS]

01:16:58   some kind of bug with a keychain feature but for the most part they're all [TS]

01:17:01   announced at WTC and they all come out in the fall at once and then Apple [TS]

01:17:06   spends the next six months fixing bugs and those os's before they turn their [TS]

01:17:10   attention to next year's os's and are they moving away from that sort of let's [TS]

01:17:15   do all the features at once to a more let's keep working on these features in [TS]

01:17:20   parallel and then when they're ready then we'll ship them like with the [TS]

01:17:25   seemingly imminent iOS 9 . [TS]

01:17:28   three which is now in public beta which has maybe not huge features but some [TS]

01:17:32   significant features yeah the efflux thing with the influx like feature with [TS]

01:17:38   the night shift color palette and maybe the most significant one for a smaller [TS]

01:17:45   number of users but for those who applies to this very City to really [TS]

01:17:48   major update to the OS is the way that for education purposes iPads can have [TS]

01:17:52   multiple users now and you could have any students sign into any ipad that's [TS]

01:17:57   the sort of feature that you typically would only come in a major you know . o [TS]

01:18:03   release of the OS [TS]

01:18:06   I can't help but think that common sense says that while marketing-wise that's [TS]

01:18:11   less powerful because you can't just announce all this stuff at once that [TS]

01:18:15   from a quality perspective letting these features come out naturally when they're [TS]

01:18:20   ready even if it's in the . 3 update to the major version of the OS is is but [TS]

01:18:26   you know common senses that just seems like it's a better process for quality [TS]

01:18:30   and I don't mind a smaller feature updates i really don't i I just want [TS]

01:18:38   things to be secure and stable that's that's my main thing that's what I want [TS]

01:18:47   from them [TS]

01:18:48   yeah and I wonder how much you know how much do they need the OS and major OS [TS]

01:18:54   updates to have big marketing type features you know I mean obviously [TS]

01:18:58   they're always going to have some but how much do you need 10 tentpole [TS]

01:19:03   features in an OS update is is it is that it you know maybe that's an [TS]

01:19:07   outdated way of looking at an operating system i think it is you know that it's [TS]

01:19:12   really more you know it's enough to just say you know come this fall and they're [TS]

01:19:20   announced new iPhones to just talk about what's new in the iPhone itself here's [TS]

01:19:24   this new camera that does blah blah blah and here's how much better it is than [TS]

01:19:27   the old camera and here is how much faster graphics performance is compared [TS]

01:19:33   to last year which lets you do these amazing things like a play this game and [TS]

01:19:39   do this stuff like isn't that enough [TS]

01:19:41   like it rather than then you know and and and let the engineers who are [TS]

01:19:45   working on iOS focus on just continually crossing off every little niggling [TS]

01:19:51   little bug that that's bothering people [TS]

01:19:53   alright well i think that we need something you know it's always nice when [TS]

01:19:58   when apple announces a new iphone that you know you can now do panoramic [TS]

01:20:03   pictures and you know we have this great camera and and the fact is people rely [TS]

01:20:09   on on that camera but that's time that's a good example though it's obviously the [TS]

01:20:14   panoramic camera thing is obviously software because it's you know it but [TS]

01:20:19   it's also hardware right it's it it wasn't like they could have done it [TS]

01:20:22   without your camera it was tied to it you know it's you know it's very [TS]

01:20:25   specific to the to the camera in the phone so I I brought up three points in [TS]

01:20:32   the article that I did on on the software of why some of the the bad [TS]

01:20:40   software bad things happen [TS]

01:20:42   one was that they knew about it and released it anyway [TS]

01:20:47   who was that they didn't know they were given a date release by you know at [TS]

01:20:56   first that's it [TS]

01:20:58   what do you think it is well I definitely think that that's part of the [TS]

01:21:03   it's part of why i think the monolithic really schedule is problematic is that [TS]

01:21:09   the the iphones have to come out in September and I mean I i say have to in [TS]

01:21:17   a way that if they didn't if something truly catastrophic happened to the [TS]

01:21:21   supply chain you know I natural disaster in Asia something truly catastrophic and [TS]

01:21:30   apple literally added it has you know calls a meeting in you know late august [TS]

01:21:34   and says well we have to postpone the iphone 7 launch until January [TS]

01:21:40   it's not going to sink the company i mean it's it's bad for him it would [TS]

01:21:44   definitely be bad for the company i'm sure would be bad for their stock but I [TS]

01:21:47   a but I you know to keep everything according to plan the iphone has to come [TS]

01:21:53   out in September and if the new iPhone comes out in September iOS 10 has to [TS]

01:21:59   come out in September because the new iphone and you know are always [TS]

01:22:02   engineered such that they need the newest version of the operating system [TS]

01:22:06   and therefore i will I OS you know whatever this year's new version number [TS]

01:22:13   is come hell or high water is shipping in the middle of September and that's [TS]

01:22:19   how it is and that's why I feel like the more features you're promising for that [TS]

01:22:24   release the more risk there is that some of them are not going to be you know [TS]

01:22:30   fully baked well and and didn't we see that and you talked about it last week [TS]

01:22:35   with with Craig and a boat apple TV [TS]

01:22:38   I mean there are new features coming over apple TV that just didn't make it [TS]

01:22:41   right in the in the software [TS]

01:22:45   yeah and you know does that mean that they should have postponed the release [TS]

01:22:48   of the app of the new Apple TV I think definitely not i think right as they [TS]

01:22:52   released it was a compelling out upgrade and a compelling device but that's just [TS]

01:22:57   the nature of it you know but isn't I think there's the big difference between [TS]

01:23:03   releasing software that's missing features and Apple never says it can do [TS]

01:23:11   this in a can two releasing software that apple says it'll do this and it [TS]

01:23:19   doesn't right yeah I definitely think so anyway here's an example so maybe this [TS]

01:23:25   is the way that I if I could Bend Phil Schiller and Tim Cook's year and Craig's [TS]

01:23:31   ear on on this take a look at it compared it to the release of photos [TS]

01:23:36   from mac which was announced at WWDC but without they just said early next year [TS]

01:23:41   and i think it had a very good launch I think photos from Mac to complete the [TS]

01:23:47   cert and iCloud photo library and complete this circle of ok now you put [TS]

01:23:52   you all of your photos [TS]

01:23:53   on all of your devices that are signed in to iCloud in a in a storage sensitive [TS]

01:24:00   way so that you know if you have thousands of photos you have the option [TS]

01:24:04   of whether you want the full version on any particular device it all worked [TS]

01:24:08   really well but I think part of that was that they didn't promise that date and [TS]

01:24:11   say that [TS]

01:24:11   come hell or high water it's going to ship on this date right like i would [TS]

01:24:15   like to see more features at WWDC and api's announced as this is coming within [TS]

01:24:21   the next year you know and and if it's not in iOS 10.04 have to wait till 10.1 [TS]

01:24:29   that so be it [TS]

01:24:31   I agree and I do think you had a strong . i definitely think you had a strong [TS]

01:24:35   point that there are some cases where Apple has ship stuff where it's it just [TS]

01:24:39   seems inexcusable like you had to know that this was not ready to ship right [TS]

01:24:43   and and that's that's where I wonder you know that it seems obvious that you knew [TS]

01:24:50   that this didn't work and if if you want to release software like that then [TS]

01:24:57   release it is as beta say you know we have this this new thing and we're going [TS]

01:25:03   to release it today as public beta we looking forward to your feedback and if [TS]

01:25:11   that's the case then I i think the whole conversation changes on whether the [TS]

01:25:20   software is good or not because you know I i I've been running beta software for [TS]

01:25:28   os's and for things like that i never write about it because it's not fair to [TS]

01:25:32   write about beta software like that right but as soon as you come to me and [TS]

01:25:38   say this software is ready you can do all of these great and wonderful things [TS]

01:25:45   and you know where we're proud to announce and release it today and then [TS]

01:25:51   it doesn't or you know not just that it doesn't but that it has major bugs [TS]

01:25:59   which brings us to the next segment of the show where we can we should talk [TS]

01:26:03   about itunes and Apple music with I put gets you after thanking our final [TS]

01:26:11   sponsor ah and it's our good friends at fracture you guys no fracture there the [TS]

01:26:16   company that prints your photos directly onto glass you've got photos in your [TS]

01:26:21   iphone you've got photos on whatever the cameras you have you put them on [TS]

01:26:25   Instagram you put them in photos on your mac setup the flickr well how about [TS]

01:26:31   getting them somewhere where they're not just ones and zeros and putting them [TS]

01:26:35   onto a real analog print that you can hang on the wall that you can put on [TS]

01:26:39   your desk [TS]

01:26:40   there's no better way to do that then through fraktur where instead of printed [TS]

01:26:44   on paper and then you've got this piece of paper that you've got to some help us [TS]

01:26:47   perfectly align with in a rectangular frame and the pain-in-the-ass of you [TS]

01:26:52   know opening those little clips on the back of the frame and getting them back [TS]

01:26:55   in there without having the photo fall two degrees off parallel forget it with [TS]

01:27:02   fracture your picture is printed right on the glass itself and it looks super [TS]

01:27:07   cool it's super beautiful it goes edge-to-edge and they ship with [TS]

01:27:13   everything you need to hang them on the wall including the screw to put in a [TS]

01:27:19   wall right there in the package really clever packaging really high quality [TS]

01:27:24   printing and a really really just super cool effect when you actually see them [TS]

01:27:28   on the wall [TS]

01:27:29   I you know people who know you start hanging up if they've ever heard a [TS]

01:27:33   fracture i guess it's a fracture and if they don't they're going to say like how [TS]

01:27:36   did you do that is just how does have you know what is this and then you're [TS]

01:27:39   going to end up giving a pitch like this on fracture to to your friends and it's [TS]

01:27:44   all really affordable to with prices starting at just 15 bucks for the small [TS]

01:27:49   square sighs they've got all sorts of sizes all sorts of shapes and they've [TS]

01:27:53   got a really cool team that hand assembles every single order [TS]

01:27:57   down in Gainesville Florida and if you need any other reason to buy one besides [TS]

01:28:02   them being our sponsors and then being really cool things to to buy as gifts to [TS]

01:28:06   buy for yourself to hang on the walls [TS]

01:28:08   here's the even better you can save ten percent off with the code talk show 10 [TS]

01:28:14   talk show 10 will save you ten percent just go to fracture me.com to check it [TS]

01:28:20   out online and remember that code talk show 10 and you'll save some bucks I so [TS]

01:28:26   that brings us to itunes mm which was i again i think that's one thing that on [TS]

01:28:33   twitter people called me out for not pressing any Q hard enough on but on the [TS]

01:28:38   other hand I felt like he acknowledged that it's on the table that maybe on the [TS]

01:28:42   desktop that itunes should be broken up like it is on on iOS and have separate [TS]

01:28:47   apps for playing music for managing device updates for you know I mean it's [TS]

01:28:53   good just kind of ridiculous what itunes on the desktop does you know how much [TS]

01:28:56   stuff it's it's required to do well and you can see why they don't want to mess [TS]

01:29:02   with it because it processes you know billions of dollars in transactions [TS]

01:29:07   right now and it's actually used a lot i think it was in one of the numbers that [TS]

01:29:11   was dropped in that interview last week was that there's a hundred million [TS]

01:29:14   people who stole update and sink their device through you a USB cable the other [TS]

01:29:19   items so mean that I mean a hundred million users is a real number i mean [TS]

01:29:23   yep and i can understand that and for the record you know I know that I've [TS]

01:29:29   been very outspoken about Apple music and the problems that I've had with it i [TS]

01:29:37   use Apple music all the time every day i use Apple music and it has gotten really [TS]

01:29:45   really good [TS]

01:29:47   it really has Eddie and his team i think i've done a tremendous job in fixing a [TS]

01:29:56   lot of the the errors and problems that Apple music head which brings me back to [TS]

01:30:04   the point of at what point is apple released software knowing that it's it [TS]

01:30:09   doesn't work that well you know was Apple music one of those because when [TS]

01:30:15   you start using it you can see we're all the [TS]

01:30:20   flaws were all right did it did it wasn't released dictated by the quality [TS]

01:30:23   of the software was released dictated by when the negotiating rights opened up [TS]

01:30:28   right and I i tend to think that it was the release was was based on a date not [TS]

01:30:37   on the quality of the software because what we see now with the quality of the [TS]

01:30:41   software i would have been extremely happy with what specific things do you [TS]

01:30:46   think are better now then then then in the past year because you've been I mean [TS]

01:30:50   without i would say almost without question one of the leading critics of [TS]

01:30:53   of Apple music in terms of bugginess and inconsistency in and confusion [TS]

01:30:59   well and it's the bulkiness and inconsistency isn't just on iphone it's [TS]

01:31:04   on Mac it's on apple TV you know and I i think if you look at the service overall [TS]

01:31:14   everything has gotten better [TS]

01:31:17   the app is getting better uh the the the station's the algorithm that they use [TS]

01:31:22   for the for their radio stations has gotten better [TS]

01:31:25   the the curated stations have gotten better [TS]

01:31:29   everything has gotten better there are still bugs in the software and and [TS]

01:31:34   people people have to accuse me of looking for for bugs [TS]

01:31:39   I don't have time in my day to look for bugs [TS]

01:31:43   I can't really don't so iíve told apple that no reason that I'm able to find [TS]

01:31:51   these bugs is because i use it so much [TS]

01:31:54   that's it that's the the only reason that I can I I find them when I find [TS]

01:31:59   them i tell them about you know here's what it's funny I know it's gotta be the [TS]

01:32:05   same for you but it always amuses me when like two emails in a row or maybe [TS]

01:32:09   two tweets in a row just back-to-back and it's the fact that their [TS]

01:32:12   back-to-back that makes it so amusing where there's one accusing you being an [TS]

01:32:15   apples pocket [TS]

01:32:16   yeah well one accusing you of unfairly criticizing apple just looking for [TS]

01:32:22   things to take over the exact same thing that you wrote [TS]

01:32:25   yeah well yeah it's true it's true it happens and I [TS]

01:32:29   what I'm not even sure that that Apple recognizes this but the reason that I'm [TS]

01:32:35   so upset or I was so upset about Apple music is because I care about it so much [TS]

01:32:42   well and it also seemed like some of your initial problems were were data [TS]

01:32:46   loss which is sort of the Cardinal you know like there's all sorts of things [TS]

01:32:48   that are forgivable in bugs and data loss is like high up on the list of ones [TS]

01:32:54   that are unforgivable well you are designed systems ideally such that data [TS]

01:32:59   never gets lost an end to be to be fair and open on to apple here the data loss [TS]

01:33:06   came from a misunderstanding of what I new itunes match to do so apparently i [TS]

01:33:16   deleted the song some of my own songs and not knowing that the way that iTunes [TS]

01:33:24   Match work had changed so the songs weren't there but they were there and [TS]

01:33:32   then some of the other ones i deleted but I i just i don't think that the way [TS]

01:33:40   that they implemented itunes matches the service in Apple music was a a good [TS]

01:33:48   thing to do because they before you could turn you could see with itunes [TS]

01:33:53   match you can see your purchase music and your your your uploaded music and [TS]

01:33:58   you're matched music so i could turn off apple music and and or I could you know [TS]

01:34:05   use itunes match on all my devices and basically see all my music but when they [TS]

01:34:10   implemented Apple music they made itunes match part of my club music library so [TS]

01:34:14   if i wanted to get rid of iCloud music library and just see my itunes match [TS]

01:34:19   there was no way to do that but i didn't know that you know so that and it gets [TS]

01:34:26   to my complaint with it is that in some ways I think what makes me in this too [TS]

01:34:30   critical software is that on kind of an idiot and I really have cognitive [TS]

01:34:36   problems with complex software i really i really think i do i just need it to be [TS]

01:34:41   obviously not necessarily simple but i need it to be obvious and I really feel [TS]

01:34:46   like I could try to get their last week with with federighi and Q but that i [TS]

01:34:53   really like what they did with photos for mac and it and as I say this knowing [TS]

01:34:57   that i know that there are people out there who really missed some folks [TS]

01:35:00   features from iphoto that aren't in photos for mac but i really like it [TS]

01:35:05   because I really when I open photos from Mac it's not that there aren't other [TS]

01:35:09   features i wish that they would add back and it's not like I feel like especially [TS]

01:35:13   in terms of editing images I really and I you know I just feel like it's coming [TS]

01:35:18   and it this is how it's going to evolve in the years to come but i really like [TS]

01:35:21   that I open it up and I understand where everything is and in a way that if they [TS]

01:35:27   had tried to glom it into iphoto I don't know it would have worked [TS]

01:35:31   whereas with I itunes I just really feel like by continuing to build on the same [TS]

01:35:38   foundation that was the original itunes from a decade ago they've wound up with [TS]

01:35:43   something that's just confusing and itunes match is a perfect example of [TS]

01:35:47   that where I understand when they first came out with itunes match i understood [TS]

01:35:50   what was meant to do and it sound appealing and i paid $MONEY for it and i [TS]

01:35:53   stoled I guess I still do pay for it but now that they have apple music I just [TS]

01:35:57   feel like it's too much [TS]

01:35:58   I feel like there should be just like two things [TS]

01:36:02   here's your music which you have copies of right here on your on your computer [TS]

01:36:07   and you can sync them to your other devices if you want and then if you want [TS]

01:36:12   to pay us to have access to you know music I got as on a subscription basis [TS]

01:36:18   that's Apple music I kind of feel like iTunes Match should just go away we'll [TS]

01:36:23   see I i really liked itunes match because then I could have one copy of my [TS]

01:36:29   music on on my computer and then I could just use itunes match and not take up [TS]

01:36:35   space on my device you know my iphone or my iPad I could just use itunes match [TS]

01:36:41   and get a whole quiet library but when they when they change that [TS]

01:36:46   m and rolled it into my club music library i'm basically paying for a [TS]

01:36:51   service that it doesn't do what [TS]

01:36:53   did you know in my mind they kind of took away a feature but are still [TS]

01:36:59   charging me for that feature you know so but if i look at an apple music today [TS]

01:37:08   right now I was using it this morning before we we did this and if i look at [TS]

01:37:15   the app and the service it's something that i would recommend I i think it's [TS]

01:37:22   it's great and i use it i use the radio more now than what i've ever used radio [TS]

01:37:28   before I mean I was a big fan of Pandora because I think pandora had the best [TS]

01:37:33   algorithmic radio of service out there better than Spotify better than apples [TS]

01:37:39   better than everybody but apples is getting really really good [TS]

01:37:44   so the way that i use radio is all pick a song and guns and roses so pick sweet [TS]

01:37:51   child of mine are welcome to the jungle [TS]

01:38:02   yeah [TS]

01:38:06   and i'll say make a station based on this song and what i expect here from [TS]

01:38:12   that station is basically hit after hit after it [TS]

01:38:17   nothing but hits for as long as I play that station and I i I'll use that when [TS]

01:38:24   i go for a drive or you know what I'm doing something that I just want to hear [TS]

01:38:29   you know I have people over and I pick a song I want to hear other songs like [TS]

01:38:34   that and nothing but hits and for a while what you were getting from from [TS]

01:38:42   the radio stations was and this is even before Apple music you were getting [TS]

01:38:47   kinda like the the the best of the b-sides that nobody ever wanted to hear [TS]

01:38:52   and I would just be skipping through song saying what is this why are you [TS]

01:38:59   playing and you know that's that's what you ended up with that's not the case [TS]

01:39:05   anymore now I'm hearing a lot of great songs you know just and and that's great [TS]

01:39:12   so what I also use the hardrock channel but the pre-done curated hardrock [TS]

01:39:18   channel and Apple music and it's gotten really really really good and I use that [TS]

01:39:24   for discovery and I i have added so many songs to my library from the hardrock [TS]

01:39:32   channel that you know I'll be listening to songs and hearing new music and say [TS]

01:39:38   that's pretty good and I'll reach over and tap the the heart button so hard [TS]

01:39:44   that and then you know two or three days later I'll be you know listening to the [TS]

01:39:49   hard rock channel that's own well we'll come on again and I'll to Jesus pretty [TS]

01:39:53   good i'll reach over it hit the heart button and I'll have already heard it so [TS]

01:39:58   i said well i need to add that to my library and I'll go in and add that song [TS]

01:40:02   sometimes I have the whole album but i'll have that song to my library and [TS]

01:40:05   then I also rated with stars so then it goes into my playlist of you know I've I [TS]

01:40:14   playlist done of 4 stars or higher so far [TS]

01:40:19   going on a long drive i'll put on that playlist of all the songs forever that [TS]

01:40:24   I've rated four stars or higher and you know I could have a couple thousand [TS]

01:40:28   songs in there and I know that I'm gonna love every single one of them [TS]

01:40:33   well it sounds like you you're having a much better experience with it than you [TS]

01:40:37   used to [TS]

01:40:38   well yeah I mean it but see that's why I need my library right as part of this [TS]

01:40:44   because people have said you know like I added and this was this is a couple [TS]

01:40:49   months ago I haven't tried since but I added i led zep on one and 22 from my [TS]

01:40:55   music to my itunes library and it changed the names to those those classic [TS]

01:41:01   albums two legs up on mothership which is their greatest hits album and it just [TS]

01:41:06   it just pissed me off [TS]

01:41:08   does it come on no no no it's not that's not it right and it's even worse that it [TS]

01:41:16   was those albums because those it's wrong in any case to botch the album [TS]

01:41:20   name but they're so canonical in an iconic you know I mean like Led Zeppelin [TS]

01:41:26   I every it's up on element but especially to me one two three and four [TS]

01:41:30   well and can act houses of the holy they're all they're all it is no which [TS]

01:41:34   album it is right but things like that i don't find happen much anymore [TS]

01:41:40   there are n see that's why I want my my own music because I've spent the last [TS]

01:41:45   you know what 15 years rating songs in itunes uh and and using those playlists [TS]

01:41:55   for ratings and also for plays you know what everybody my top five hundred songs [TS]

01:42:03   played of all time in my itunes library i have a playlist for that right so if i [TS]

01:42:09   want to narrow down you know the stars and to just what i've actually played [TS]

01:42:13   then I guess it would be all aussie songs but you know then i can take that [TS]

01:42:20   playlist and people have said you know when i put i posted a picture of legs up [TS]

01:42:25   on one and two being changed to mothership and people simple [TS]

01:42:30   why would you add it from your your own songs when you can just add it from [TS]

01:42:36   apple music and be done with it and my my argument was a well then you're [TS]

01:42:43   you're admitting that doesn't work I mean you're basically admitting defeat [TS]

01:42:47   saying fine you know it doesn't work i'll just do what happened wants me to [TS]

01:42:52   do now i have i have valid reasons that I want this stuff on my own and you know [TS]

01:42:59   do I want to spend like $MONEY a year going through all my music and updating [TS]

01:43:03   the stuff from Apple music with all the ratings and everything I had no I'm not [TS]

01:43:08   gonna do that [TS]

01:43:10   so we're talking about Apple music have you seen this story about it was [TS]

01:43:13   Hollywood Reporter that that broke it but that that Apple is backing a TV [TS]

01:43:21   series maybe a limited-run TV series about about and starring dr dre yeah i [TS]

01:43:27   did see that and to me the interesting part was so anybody has been waiting for [TS]

01:43:34   a while for Apple to start having their own exclusive content because they're [TS]

01:43:38   sort of the last ones to the game [TS]

01:43:40   I mean I don't know I guess microsoft doesn't really but youtube you know [TS]

01:43:44   through google through YouTube has a YouTube read-only content hulu obviously [TS]

01:43:51   it's all about their own content netflix has their own content and amazon has [TS]

01:43:57   exclusive content that if you're an Amazon Prime member so did that question [TS]

01:44:02   is if Apple if it's true i mean it seems like it's definitely true that they're [TS]

01:44:06   shooting this dr dre thing like that the hollywood reporter you know had reports [TS]

01:44:10   of you know who's in it and what the content is I'm fascinated by the idea of [TS]

01:44:16   how are they going to release it like is it [TS]

01:44:21   are they going to sell it through itunes like you pay a dollar ninety-nine an [TS]

01:44:25   episode like you do four shows from networks are they going to make it so [TS]

01:44:30   that if you are an apple music subscriber you get it for free [TS]

01:44:33   what they do both so that if you're not an apple music subscriber you can buy it [TS]

01:44:38   but if you're at you know if you do is it like sign up for Apple music and you [TS]

01:44:42   can watch this dr dre show [TS]

01:44:44   and if so is isn't Apple music a bad name for Apple music also write like [TS]

01:44:49   yeah like it's less than a year old but it's already you know in the way that [TS]

01:44:54   itunes got this name that with tunes you know the root word of itunes tunes and [TS]

01:45:00   it involved in all these ways that eventually had nothing to do with music [TS]

01:45:04   Apple music already about video content and don't forget that and I to itunes [TS]

01:45:10   was itunes music store and they drive music right [TS]

01:45:15   you know like iOS was my phone all right is it is Apple ever going to stop naming [TS]

01:45:21   things music and then had to make them go in other ways and just say it would [TS]

01:45:24   be like Amazon Prime had been named amazon free shipping the amazon free [TS]

01:45:28   shipping club now it's like they had the foresight when they named it amazon [TS]

01:45:33   prime that hey we might do all sorts of cool stuff for people who sign up for [TS]

01:45:38   this so let's just give it a name that just sort of means you know it [TS]

01:45:41   amazon premium customer but I i think i think I they they did such a good job [TS]

01:45:45   with with itunes over the years that people know you know you just go to [TS]

01:45:49   itunes to get everything which may be part of a problem in in trying to split [TS]

01:45:54   it out you know I but you know with your your question I mean it would make sense [TS]

01:45:59   for Apple because they have the money to be able to say yes [TS]

01:46:04   sign up for Apple music and get dr. dre's show for free [TS]

01:46:10   yeah you know they they could very well do that I think it's interesting that [TS]

01:46:14   that they are getting into it and and I think it's a good thing and they need to [TS]

01:46:20   do it [TS]

01:46:21   yeah what if I mean it could i don't know i mean they have so many options [TS]

01:46:24   but it could could just say if you have any Apple device you can watch it for [TS]

01:46:29   free you know any I any iphone ipad apple TV can can watch the show for free [TS]

01:46:36   I don't know i'm very curious what they would do or what they're going to do [TS]

01:46:40   I've been thinking about it for a long time because I've long everybody's long [TS]

01:46:43   suspected Apple might get into original content but now that they are i'm [TS]

01:46:47   excited to find out how they're actually going to go to market with it [TS]

01:46:50   because i don't think it's clear it is gonna be and wellness and let's not [TS]

01:46:54   forget that they grew from what a six million subscribers to 11 million they [TS]

01:47:02   told you in the last week I mean that's huge [TS]

01:47:07   it's funny because it's not huge by Apple standards like on the same show [TS]

01:47:11   you know they mentioned that they have 700 million users 707 million total [TS]

01:47:17   users and they've only got 11 million Apple music but it's you know it's it's [TS]

01:47:23   in comparison to other streaming services and it is sort of a slow and [TS]

01:47:27   steady wins the race type thing right and like a huge i meant huge increase in [TS]

01:47:32   Ryan in a relatively short period of time I mean they almost doubled it [TS]

01:47:36   so here's the question though I did they double it because of this Taylor Swift [TS]

01:47:42   thing I mean for awhile looked like Taylor Swift bought apple right now [TS]

01:47:46   because she was just everywhere you walk into a retail store that stores were [TS]

01:47:50   just plastered with taylor swift the itunes store was posture but Taylor [TS]

01:47:56   Swift I mean every banner was taylor swift is is that why it grew and you [TS]

01:48:02   know i I've also said before that I don't think it heard my notes certainly [TS]

01:48:07   didn't hurt [TS]

01:48:08   I mean is it because the service over that time get better I i understand that [TS]

01:48:15   there are a lot of people a lot of people that never had a problem with [TS]

01:48:19   Apple music I i get that I've talked to those people you know [TS]

01:48:25   ok and ind those I really do but if you came to me today with Apple music and [TS]

01:48:32   said here it is [TS]

01:48:34   III be a hundred percent behind it and I can't see saying a bad thing like i said [TS]

01:48:41   there's still a couple neatly little bugs in it but nothing that i would say [TS]

01:48:46   you know all this is this is terrible [TS]

01:48:49   I mean interesting wins the software Pagano care well I think the music [TS]

01:48:53   industry is going clearly kind of going the same way as the TV in and [TS]

01:48:59   and video world where exclude it you know exclusives drive drive the [TS]

01:49:07   subscriptions you know it's you know netflix it isn't netflix without the [TS]

01:49:14   netflix original content at this point even know a lot of what people watch on [TS]

01:49:18   netflix are there the whole library of movies and stuff like that but it's the [TS]

01:49:21   fact that they have some stuff that you can only get on netflix that is you know [TS]

01:49:26   if you're only going to subscribe to one or two monthly services [TS]

01:49:29   you know it's the exclusive stuff that makes you pick which ones it is and just [TS]

01:49:33   as the you know another example [TS]

01:49:34   so the and it just seems like you know Taylor Swift having original stuff on on [TS]

01:49:40   Apple music like the movie they made and stuff like that is exclusive and then [TS]

01:49:45   you've got Kanye West who has a new album out that's only on title and he [TS]

01:49:49   said yeah for whatever reason you know that it's never going to be on we call [TS]

01:49:54   it apple but it's never going to be on ya and and I for one am thankful that [TS]

01:50:02   he's not going to be an apple music so I saw him on Saturday Night Live last week [TS]

01:50:07   I thought it was like incomprehensible I I mean I'm a little old but I'm [TS]

01:50:11   definitely not that the demo but it it's a very pretty bizarre performance [TS]

01:50:18   he's an interesting guy but but again no it's just but you just never used to see [TS]

01:50:21   that in the old days there was never like like an album that came out from a [TS]

01:50:25   major act that was only it at Tower Records right right it just wasn't how [TS]

01:50:30   the industry worked and it just seems like now especially from the perspective [TS]

01:50:35   of the the the superstar music acts that it's all about exclusives and apple is [TS]

01:50:43   in a strong position in my opinion in that regard because they can a pay for [TS]

01:50:47   it and be i think that from them you know in addition to just the fact that [TS]

01:50:53   Apple has the money to pay for it they know people know that Apple eyes the [TS]

01:50:56   marketing ability to to really help you know that if Apple is behind you and [TS]

01:51:01   marketing you know you've got a really good marketing partner [TS]

01:51:04   yeah [TS]

01:51:05   I agree I and I i love the fact that they are getting into this original [TS]

01:51:12   content i can't wait to see where that goes [TS]

01:51:15   now you know I but there's you know there's there's a lot of things that [TS]

01:51:19   they can do they have a lot of connections and you know what i think is [TS]

01:51:23   really funny [TS]

01:51:24   remember that the whole thing with the jimmy iovine talking about women and [TS]

01:51:29   playlist that you know that women are sitting around talking about boys and [TS]

01:51:36   you know Wilson into music and they need help with playlist the latest commercial [TS]

01:51:40   were three women sitting around talking about you know breaking up and and [TS]

01:51:44   listening to music at that Center Byronic uh I guess that brings us to the [TS]

01:51:50   last and final scandal of the week which is that in that think that was the [TS]

01:51:53   commercial where there's one of the new to new iphone commercials apple at the [TS]

01:51:58   narrator young woman pronounces the word chif as gift which is how i pronounce it [TS]

01:52:05   is it you know the gif image format is it a soft soft G or hard G and apple has [TS]

01:52:10   come out strongly on a hard G side which is where I've always been into so but [TS]

01:52:16   there we go but I know people are losing losing their shit over that [TS]

01:52:19   yeah well we have we have so much time in our hands these days then we can we [TS]

01:52:25   can lose their shit over something like like that but i don't what is the right [TS]

01:52:30   way I've always said give this is why it's the long story short the [TS]

01:52:35   controversy is that the i think it was one guy i mean i guess i can look it up [TS]

01:52:40   in the show notes but whoever it was who created it it if you remember it was a [TS]

01:52:43   unisys image format that they had a patent on and that they never enforced [TS]

01:52:49   it but then when the end and it was I get sort of obscure image format in like [TS]

01:52:55   the late eighties early nineties but then when the web happened and we needed [TS]

01:52:59   really tightly you know it's very small bite count image format and then all the [TS]

01:53:06   browsers supported the format and it exploded and then unit systems like a [TS]

01:53:10   dude we still own a patent on that [TS]

01:53:12   really kind of made a stink about it anyway the the team or the guy [TS]

01:53:17   unisys who invented it and then stands for graphics interchange format and the [TS]

01:53:21   guy who invented it says it they've always pronounced it with the soft G [TS]

01:53:25   Jeff like the peanut butter and therefore that side of the argument says [TS]

01:53:30   the guy who invented it says it's jeff therefore it's jeff i wear as everybody [TS]

01:53:38   else is like if its graphics interchange format it's a hard G it's gift and who [TS]

01:53:44   cares what the original guy said language evolves naturally and the [TS]

01:53:47   natural way that this is involved is that it's a hard G ok so the big [TS]

01:53:53   question doesn't matter over people but there was like when that video game out [TS]

01:53:59   there is like an hour or two on twitter where that's all anybody was talking [TS]

01:54:02   about i mean do you go to anybody and say gift and they don't know what you're [TS]

01:54:06   talking about [TS]

01:54:07   no now I just I just think it sounds better right now I baby very curious to [TS]

01:54:13   know like what weather readers and listeners of the show if how they fall [TS]

01:54:18   it seems like it's a little bit like the vodka vs gin martini thing where there's [TS]

01:54:25   the the one side cares a lot and the other side is like hey you pronounce it [TS]

01:54:30   however you want [TS]

01:54:31   yeah you know like with martinis the people who like vodka martinis other [TS]

01:54:35   people you know and somebody else's well i think a real Martini has to be made [TS]

01:54:38   with gin and vodka person says okay don't enjoy you know your gin martini [TS]

01:54:43   but the gin martini person that you're not drinking a real martini that's not a [TS]

01:54:46   martini Europe you know and I feel like the hard G give people are like I say [TS]

01:54:51   give you say Jeff alright but the soft G people really get bent out of shape [TS]

01:54:56   about it apparently because that you know that the guys like I said the guy [TS]

01:55:00   who created it says it's the other way [TS]

01:55:03   well anyway apple says it's hard G so I say it's RG know I always thought her [TS]

01:55:07   too [TS]

01:55:08   I anything else before we wrap up i don't think so i guess i have a crash i [TS]

01:55:18   guess most podcast do their corrections at the beginning two episodes ago [TS]

01:55:24   I said I think that was with Ben Thompson I i was we're talking about the [TS]

01:55:30   new 4-inch iphone that supposedly coming next month and I think I said that it's [TS]

01:55:34   going to have the a8 processor that's a year old from the iphone 6 and Mark [TS]

01:55:40   government has reported that sunday 9i think couple other rumors rumors of [TS]

01:55:43   setting III but I misspoke on the air so the rumor is I don't know if it's true [TS]

01:55:48   or not but anyway I should correct it that the rumor as reported by marc [TS]

01:55:51   herman and I think others is that the new 4-inch iphone is going to have an 89 [TS]

01:55:56   processor which would put it at the you know six months behind the iphone 6s and [TS]

01:56:03   6s plus in terms of specs and that is exactly why when i was on the show with [TS]

01:56:08   then that I said I think that it's a phone that Apple intends to keep on the [TS]

01:56:11   market for 18 to 24 months because they're putting the top-of-the-line a9 [TS]

01:56:16   in there and that makes a lot more sense I I misspoke when I said hey and I I [TS]

01:56:19   regret their what else [TS]

01:56:22   clearly you're not trustworthy anymore i already yeah can I ask you one question [TS]

01:56:29   we get asked me anything Joe I do you use Apple music not a lot I don't listen [TS]

01:56:34   to a lot of music to tell you the truth [TS]

01:56:36   mm okay I never I i haven't in a long time I don't I can't work with music [TS]

01:56:42   playing why couldn't I can't but a you know I'm a little princess and the pea i [TS]

01:56:46   like to with a pea under my mattress [TS]

01:56:48   I like to work in silence so I don't listen to music when i'm writing a [TS]

01:56:52   reading on I if I do want to listen to music though I I would yeah okay i was [TS]

01:56:58   just one I think where I will eventually use Apple music the most and I needed [TS]

01:57:04   that need to get a new car to make it work better but I anticipate you know [TS]

01:57:10   that getting a car where instead of using serious which we have in our car i [TS]

01:57:17   would much rather have apple music and just go over the LTE connection on my [TS]

01:57:21   phone because it would be a much higher quality even my shitty years can can [TS]

01:57:27   hear that the the horrible compression on current satellite radio [TS]

01:57:31   so it'd be way higher fidelity and I'd you know obviously I think it I would [TS]

01:57:36   just rather go through the Apple music stations and the Apple music algorithms [TS]

01:57:40   and have the complete access to my personal library at all times rather [TS]

01:57:43   than just choose from the stations that serious offers the car is where I would [TS]

01:57:48   listen to music but I don't drive much so it's it's not that much you know even [TS]

01:57:52   there it's not much but like when I go out like on a walk in the city or [TS]

01:57:56   something that I listen to podcast instead of music I don't really listen [TS]

01:57:59   to much but if I do listen to music i do use it but I don't use it enough that i [TS]

01:58:03   have strong opinions on it so that's why it I I don't really write much about [TS]

01:58:07   Apple music well give it a try to think you'll like it [TS]

01:58:10   everybody can check out Jim's work of course at loop in site.com that's Jim's [TS]

01:58:17   website and on Twitter he's going to guess my guess is your user name is jay [TS]

01:58:23   Dalrymple that is it and and you can enjoy his plight is played out you know [TS]

01:58:33   and all haha now there's no plate anymore [TS]

01:58:39   it's all good it's polite tweets alright Jim thanks a lot [TS]

01:58:44   it's good talking to you too mama [TS]