The Talk Show

146: ‘“They Might Be Giants” With a Spanish Accent’, With Special Guests Eddy Cue and Craig Federighi


00:00:00   ladies and gentlemen your pal John Gruber here this is a very special [TS]

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00:00:12   you right here at this episode is exclusively brought to you by met . com [TS]

00:00:18   that's mah . com if you don't know what's Matt it's a daily deal site you [TS]

00:00:23   guys remember woot wot that was a daily deal site where they put funny content [TS]

00:00:28   videos and stuff like that up and have one thing a day that they would sell at [TS]

00:00:32   a extraordinary discount and they sold to amazon that was what they sold the [TS]

00:00:36   amazon and amazon started changing everything around and eventually got rid [TS]

00:00:40   of everything about what that made woot woot [TS]

00:00:42   so the team laughs they left amazon when they could and they started a new site [TS]

00:00:46   that was like would accept even better than it used to be and that's Matt it's [TS]

00:00:51   the guys behind we have a new site now and you go there every day and have a [TS]

00:00:55   daily deal something is on sale at an extraordinary discount like a gee I [TS]

00:01:00   wonder if they like rip these off the back of a truck sort of discount gadgets [TS]

00:01:05   oftentimes toys stuff like that but the main reason to go there is not even [TS]

00:01:08   defined the discounts not shopping site at one thing a day that's available at a [TS]

00:01:12   limited time the reason I go to medicom everyday are the videos that they make [TS]

00:01:16   and the descriptions that they write that are hilarious sometimes not even [TS]

00:01:21   about the product at all it's really just a great site to work into your [TS]

00:01:26   daily routine of places to go when you want to be not bored or entertained for [TS]

00:01:31   a couple minutes so go there check them out and medicom check out the videos [TS]

00:01:36   check out the site and you can even keep your eye on the daily deals you might [TS]

00:01:40   find something really really worthwhile [TS]

00:01:42   they're great and they're the ones who are bringing you today's episode and [TS]

00:01:46   without any further ado ladies and gentlemen the talk show this is gonna be [TS]

00:01:51   fun we've got a Eddy Cue senior vice-president internet software and [TS]

00:01:57   services [TS]

00:01:57   Eddie welcome to the talk show you doing and returning to the talk show which is [TS]

00:02:03   must mean I didn't watch it up too badly [TS]

00:02:05   Craig federighi senior vice president of software engineering it's a rare honor [TS]

00:02:11   to be here John [TS]

00:02:12   here's my question is the tough one I want to know it out [TS]

00:02:16   Eddie you're a big sports fan I has Steve Dowling sent you to like [TS]

00:02:21   photography school for like taking pictures after sporting events now put [TS]

00:02:25   post-super bowl [TS]

00:02:26   you know I i love that because you may know him and I went to the Super Bowl [TS]

00:02:30   together and he's a huge Broncos fan huge Broncos fan and so when they won [TS]

00:02:37   the game we were we were all excited we got high-fiving each other we went onto [TS]

00:02:41   the field is taking the photos and he's so excited you want to congratulate him [TS]

00:02:44   and sent the picture out and then the next morning I wake up and I get to see [TS]

00:02:48   all of those messages and tweets and everything else and I thought it was [TS]

00:02:51   great [TS]

00:02:52   uh because it's it shows you know tim is just like you and me he's a huge sports [TS]

00:02:57   fan and was loved it and he loved his team actually won the superbowl I i said [TS]

00:03:03   this I I just thought it was that's exactly what i thought i thought it was [TS]

00:03:07   like Tim Tim as a human being and it's a real sports fans photo I thought it was [TS]

00:03:12   goofy but i thought was gonna be the reaction that people had to me it was [TS]

00:03:16   just a happy moment [TS]

00:03:17   alright I'm hoping I'm hoping to have a few more for you this year maybe another [TS]

00:03:21   repeat for the Warriors repeat with national championship you know well [TS]

00:03:25   that's what I don't know about the duplin I wasn't going to mention do [TS]

00:03:28   getty no no I was a look I've been we've been wanting to talk to you for like [TS]

00:03:33   three weeks but I told i told alli there's no way I'm going to talk to John [TS]

00:03:36   right now because we've been losing games straight so I waited to we won the [TS]

00:03:39   last we won the last like two games in a row where hot and I'm like let's get on [TS]

00:03:44   the call now now my smile a sports-related suggestion to you is just [TS]

00:03:48   in case the Warriors keep it up and just in case you know maybe WWDC sticks to [TS]

00:03:53   the typical schedule maybe you want to rehearse more and if you have extra [TS]

00:03:57   tickets for a warrior's finals game [TS]

00:03:59   I know a guy you know maybe could take them off your hands just saying to our [TS]

00:04:03   that's up you're on [TS]

00:04:07   I let's let's get down to brass tacks here one of the things one of the [TS]

00:04:12   reasons that this is even happening is that Apple is talking about and and [TS]

00:04:19   telling its users a lot more about what is coming down the pipeline in software [TS]

00:04:26   so for I mean and the best example of that is is that there's a big it's not [TS]

00:04:30   even like a developer page it's a big product marketing page on what's coming [TS]

00:04:34   in iOS 9.3 yeah yeah we we have a real feature release here with with 93 and so [TS]

00:04:45   we certainly wanted to talk about it and we also wanted to get out in public [TS]

00:04:48   seeds so many of you were running it certainly all of us here are and there's [TS]

00:04:56   a lot of really cool stuff we were able to do and we didn't want to wait all the [TS]

00:04:59   way till wdc to get out is so I I'm not imagining things that this is a at least [TS]

00:05:08   a subtle change away from keeping features as a sort of major you know new [TS]

00:05:15   features that you want to promote in in the OS as a monolithic 12 year at WWDC [TS]

00:05:21   will announce them and once a year a couple months later in the fall will [TS]

00:05:26   release them sort of schedule [TS]

00:05:29   yeah you know huge part of what we do with with iOS every year is we're really [TS]

00:05:34   advancing a platform for developers and you really can't sort of trickle out a [TS]

00:05:40   big change for developers at the platform level continuously throughout [TS]

00:05:44   the year so that's something where it makes a ton of sense for us to advance [TS]

00:05:49   at all at once have a conference get everyone early access to the SDKs that [TS]

00:05:55   they're going to use given a chance to get their apps ready and take advantage [TS]

00:05:58   of all the new capabilities and and then get out with a major OS but there are [TS]

00:06:03   things that we can do they don't have a characteristic you know and if you look [TS]

00:06:06   at the kind of features coming in 93 with our support for education and [TS]

00:06:12   you know shared use iPads in the classroom a poor for the night shift [TS]

00:06:16   feature or you know some of the improvements we made two photos or even [TS]

00:06:21   the smart keyboard handling on on the ipad pro these are things that you know [TS]

00:06:26   we want to get out right away to everyone because we think everyone can [TS]

00:06:29   enjoy them and they aren't the kind of things that really impact moving [TS]

00:06:32   platform forward for developers right it's not really developing changes but [TS]

00:06:37   it is there they're definitely major features one of my favorites is for the [TS]

00:06:41   smart keyboard that when you go to spotlight search you can arrow key down [TS]

00:06:46   to to the search results [TS]

00:06:49   yeah I know you you did helpfully note for us shortly after we shipped the ipad [TS]

00:06:54   pro that that we missed one there so it's been great to miss more than one [TS]

00:06:59   let me saying so we've been responding all the kind of great feedback we've [TS]

00:07:03   gotten on the ipad pro which were we're all excited about the device and so [TS]

00:07:07   excited about people have really embraced it but you know we all have our [TS]

00:07:11   as we all use it more deeply where we're all seeing things where we can improve a [TS]

00:07:16   bunch of things including the keyboard support and so we've taken this [TS]

00:07:18   opportunity in 932 to make some of those enhancements so it that is an [TS]

00:07:25   interesting thing so one of the things is you guys actually are all my state [TS]

00:07:29   not just you like Craig and Eddie but everybody on the executive leadership [TS]

00:07:34   team in addition to having you know these jobs that are very specific in [TS]

00:07:38   terms of responsibilities you're also users of the the products that Apple [TS]

00:07:43   makes oh yeah oh yeah no I mean half that that's why we're that's what we're [TS]

00:07:49   here for sure I mean no one was more enthusiastic to get access to the inside [TS]

00:07:54   of apple and and software than myself and and Eddie and certainly you know i'm [TS]

00:08:00   i am installing I think I probably install something like 500 versions i [TS]

00:08:05   mean literally it's 500,000 versions of OS 10 and iOS myself every year I mean I [TS]

00:08:10   have you know for max and for ipads and two phones and I upgrade the mall to the [TS]

00:08:17   newest build pretty much every day so i don't know i think i did the math wrong [TS]

00:08:21   i think it's like a hundred thousand versions of OS 10 [TS]

00:08:23   no I also install every year and John I but I've been doing this for more than [TS]

00:08:28   30 years you know the way i started with this was bringing my mac into the office [TS]

00:08:34   for my first job and and so working on the mac for me was like a dream come [TS]

00:08:40   true so i live on our products every day i use all of our products every day [TS]

00:08:44   they're they're part of my life my kids my family and so it's great and we share [TS]

00:08:49   that experience and we give each other feedback and we you know we it's what we [TS]

00:08:55   do but so like you like eddie like you when you get like add a new macbook pro [TS]

00:09:02   or whatever you're going to use you know but you set it up yourself [TS]

00:09:06   oh absolutely might my phone first of all hopefully everyone can set it up [TS]

00:09:10   themselves except that we build it for and it's really easy i set it up by i [TS]

00:09:15   transfer my content from my old macbook or I just did a new imac as a matter of [TS]

00:09:20   fact I actually bought it myself I thought I went on the online store [TS]

00:09:23   I want to see what the experience was i ordered it checked all the mail i wanted [TS]

00:09:27   to see the mail the notifications that came to my phone and then installed at [TS]

00:09:31   all let me know no Joe getty seriously most meetings I mean with that eat some [TS]

00:09:35   point the meeting he breaks out one of his devices and starts upgrading it mid [TS]

00:09:39   meeting and then then we're able to get on the fly feedback on the new software [TS]

00:09:42   during the meeting so it's very helpful [TS]

00:09:45   I I know it sounds like a trivial question but it's something I've always [TS]

00:09:49   wanted to ask people like you because I can see it both ways where I know you [TS]

00:09:54   guys are technically adept and have the background to do it but on the other [TS]

00:09:58   hand as the senior vice president of a semi large corporation you don't have to [TS]

00:10:05   if you wanted to have somebody set up your stuff for you you could do it so [TS]

00:10:08   it's always been curious to me whether whether you guys go through it because [TS]

00:10:11   you want to get that like what's it like to be a real user experience or do you [TS]

00:10:17   take advantage of it you know the fact that you don't have to if you don't want [TS]

00:10:19   to [TS]

00:10:20   oh yeah it's not it's not just that I mean we were were both involved every [TS]

00:10:25   day in the development of the software that's that's being put together and so [TS]

00:10:30   we all want to run the latest thing that we were just in a HR review talking [TS]

00:10:35   about we want to get that feet [TS]

00:10:36   you're we talked about last week and start living on it so we can start [TS]

00:10:41   giving the team feedback on what we're seeing and so it's it's an integral part [TS]

00:10:46   of how we develop here is that we all live on the software and at the same [TS]

00:10:51   time I mean probably like yourself and you know where all the the tech support [TS]

00:10:55   teams for our families and our parents and our in-laws and so I have all my [TS]

00:11:01   kids are running the beta's all the time so we get we get live live feedback and [TS]

00:11:06   helpful feedback from the whole family non-stop where were immersed in the [TS]

00:11:10   Apple universe of the feedback let me look John let me give you an example of [TS]

00:11:14   something like this happens all the time for me i am using our products are this [TS]

00:11:18   weekend i was using apple TV got the new Apple TV and by the way which we should [TS]

00:11:22   talk about there's a lot of great new features coming out with this this is a [TS]

00:11:26   major release of apple TV but i'm doing a a purchase of a movie and I've got a [TS]

00:11:32   family plan Apple music the whole thing with everybody and the message that [TS]

00:11:36   comes up on the screen says somebody from your family has already purchased [TS]

00:11:40   this would you like to buy it again I pretty dumb message and and so it's an [TS]

00:11:48   example of i got on there and it's like you know I'm talking to my team why are [TS]

00:11:51   we doing it this way and it's just a history thing of before there was family [TS]

00:11:54   plan it would ask you that question because it was single user once you have [TS]

00:11:57   a family plan to just download it shouldn't even bother to ask you and so [TS]

00:12:02   you know we live both Craig and I and that's that's part of what we love doing [TS]

00:12:06   and so it's it's great to be able to have an impact and change these things [TS]

00:12:10   because we're using them ourselves [TS]

00:12:13   that's a perfect example i was one of the questions I wanted to ask you what [TS]

00:12:16   was the last bug that you encountered yourself and that's a good one and that [TS]

00:12:20   it's an interesting explanation right and it just to clarify what you're [TS]

00:12:23   saying is it saying that the person who's now in your family plan [TS]

00:12:28   who made that purchase earlier made the purchase before there was a thing called [TS]

00:12:31   the family plan and therefore it did not automatically download know was that it [TS]

00:12:36   was only what they did make the purchase [TS]

00:12:38   they were part of the family plan originally when we were doing this [TS]

00:12:41   there wasn't a thing is family planning so was designed just to ask you if you [TS]

00:12:46   want to purchase again when we did this software for [TS]

00:12:49   family plan we didn't take into account that we just said all somebody already [TS]

00:12:52   purchased it [TS]

00:12:53   I kind of just downloading we didn't do that but i want to give you since you [TS]

00:12:56   said i want to give a little to tell you a little bit of crazy Craig and I are [TS]

00:12:59   about this stuff and you said what's the latest cause it just reminded me of of [TS]

00:13:04   this um I was installing a new version of OS 10 on my imac it's a non release [TS]

00:13:09   version couple days ago and I ran into a problem that i couldn't I knew would be [TS]

00:13:16   very difficult to recreate and this is about seven thirty at night just gotten [TS]

00:13:19   home to me up the update and I called crack up and i said here's here's the [TS]

00:13:24   problem that i've got i was leaving the next day to yuma arizona by the way i [TS]

00:13:28   want to give a shout out to the kids and teachers out in Yuma Arizona that are [TS]

00:13:33   using iPads but I called Craig up told him about the problems that look I'm [TS]

00:13:37   leaving tomorrow i said i want you guys to kind of look at this because i think [TS]

00:13:41   this is it's kind of weird i don't think it's going to be easy to recreate it [TS]

00:13:44   sure so I took the imac put in my car drove to crack house gave him the imac [TS]

00:13:48   came back home one of my trip [TS]

00:13:50   Krakens engineering the engineers looking at it figure it out and the next [TS]

00:13:54   day got the imac back so it was sort of like preserving a crime scene [TS]

00:14:00   that's right except you find out at the end of no crime was committed can we fix [TS]

00:14:05   it [TS]

00:14:06   yeah right but if you can you know if you have a bug or just an edge case that [TS]

00:14:12   you're worried you can't reproduce [TS]

00:14:14   it's like you really do just want to like freeze the computer right where it [TS]

00:14:17   is and let the engineers you know start debugging yeah absolutely and it was was [TS]

00:14:24   helpful that Eddie was was on the case on that one [TS]

00:14:27   that's a really great story that i love that it is dr tops it off of you [TS]

00:14:33   it's good to know people but that's it is ok it's interesting but it's that's [TS]

00:14:39   exactly the sort of question I had is how how involved do you guys get when [TS]

00:14:43   you run into one of these little you know it's inevitable i mean there's [TS]

00:14:47   nobody has ever written bug free software it's the nature of software but [TS]

00:14:51   what do you guys do when you guys encounter it and that's the drive over [TS]

00:14:55   to Craig's house is the end [TS]

00:14:58   so before we forget let's just go back and talk about what's coming up in apple [TS]

00:15:03   TV so the right now it's a it's a beta its TV OS 9.2 and there is a lot of it [TS]

00:15:11   really is a major feature just off the top of my head [TS]

00:15:13   serie dictation for text entry and searching for apps that's something [TS]

00:15:19   people started complaining about as soon as the new Apple TV shipped that's a big [TS]

00:15:24   one [TS]

00:15:25   yeah it's huge look when you when you get your appletv the first time the [TS]

00:15:29   first thing you got to do is enter your eyes your Apple ID and your password and [TS]

00:15:33   being able to have got serious built into this remote why not just tell it [TS]

00:15:38   and spell it out instead of having to you know go through the typing mechanism [TS]

00:15:42   of doing it and so we wanted to do that right from the beginning and then [TS]

00:15:45   searching on the app store we added searching across movies TV shows and and [TS]

00:15:50   netflix and hulu we've added a bunch of new content providers like FX you can [TS]

00:15:54   search disney channel we're adding we continue to add more but obviously the [TS]

00:15:58   app store is a huge one and and so we've done that we've added some languages [TS]

00:16:02   spanish french to that and we've added iCloud photo library full support so you [TS]

00:16:09   can see all of your photos and also as you one of the things that you've [TS]

00:16:13   noticed if you've downloaded a lot of apps on the App Store from the app store [TS]

00:16:16   having folders now so just like you have on iOS you can add folders right so you [TS]

00:16:22   know you could just group together all your little arcade games put them in an [TS]

00:16:26   arcade folder that's right right [TS]

00:16:30   what can you tell me i know this is from the list understand is how lazy i am [TS]

00:16:34   preparing for a very important talk show one of the features conference room [TS]

00:16:39   display mode but what is that we had this in the original apple TV and part [TS]

00:16:45   of this is if you know most conference rooms from Wi-Fi connectivity is into [TS]

00:16:49   the network's you have people you have private networks that are set up for the [TS]

00:16:54   corporation but then you know somebody comes in to present and you don't really [TS]

00:16:58   want to let them into your private network from the company and so we have [TS]

00:17:02   this capability and and we wanted to add that to the apple TV so that it would be [TS]

00:17:06   easy for people to come in and present [TS]

00:17:08   but now we can we can also lock the display so that instead of showing you [TS]

00:17:13   the latest top movies at the beginning of every meeting I can just tell you [TS]

00:17:17   that you can airplay to it so we we all stay on top of all the top films here at [TS]

00:17:21   Apple we start every meeting but now we have now we have an alternative that's [TS]

00:17:24   true so it's not it's really series why'd I mean this affects every platform [TS]

00:17:31   but the expansion to include new languages [TS]

00:17:35   obviously that is really super important to let's just say people who speak [TS]

00:17:39   Spanish it's really like a make-or-break feature how how difficult is that to do [TS]

00:17:47   each language going you know to keep adding languages to Siri and to keep the [TS]

00:17:52   the level of quality of of series recognition that we have over 35 [TS]

00:17:58   languages in Serie apple TV presents and actually an interesting problem compared [TS]

00:18:05   to just $PERCENT serious self in that a lot of the things that you search for [TS]

00:18:08   are not in the native language you're speaking [TS]

00:18:10   so you're actually let's say speaking in Spanish but you're searching for an [TS]

00:18:14   English title and so Cirie has to be aware that it's actually able to speak [TS]

00:18:21   multiple languages because you wouldn't in and understand when it is that it's [TS]

00:18:26   asking for a title versus what it is that you're actually giving a verb or [TS]

00:18:30   noun to it from that and so it's an interesting challenging problem which is [TS]

00:18:34   why we've been adding languages to Syria we're not quite a tu apple TV we're not [TS]

00:18:37   quite up to 35 that Cirie has but we'll keep adding on and it's supporting that [TS]

00:18:42   multilanguage aspect of Syria that makes it makes it even more fun for us to try [TS]

00:18:47   to resolve yeah are our machine learning teams at an apple and within the Serie [TS]

00:18:53   team have done some remarkable work and I know you've noticed some of the [TS]

00:18:57   improvements to series both performance and its ability to recognize but the [TS]

00:19:01   core technology has improved so much that it's really helped us get high [TS]

00:19:05   accuracy when we're take on all of all of these new languages and some of these [TS]

00:19:11   challenges like now we have to know not just that you're speaking Spanish but [TS]

00:19:14   while you're speaking Spanish you're talking about they might be giants but [TS]

00:19:17   you're pronouncing those words with a Spanish accent and Cirie needs to [TS]

00:19:20   recognize that these are these are [TS]

00:19:22   kind of things that you know a few years ago were just out of reach and now we [TS]

00:19:26   have the core technology to do it and I think the experience with series just [TS]

00:19:30   takin some giant leaps forward by the way and Anna at a huge scale these are [TS]

00:19:37   billions of requests that come in every week to Siri across all the platforms [TS]

00:19:42   that's right so in addition to that here's another one that added to a TV OS [TS]

00:19:50   9.2 is sort of the old school way of text entry bluetooth keyboard support [TS]

00:19:55   and it's a little thing but it it's one of those things where the old apple TV [TS]

00:20:02   supported it including at set up so that you could set up like if you had the [TS]

00:20:07   apple magic keyboard you could you could connect to it and then the new Apple TV [TS]

00:20:12   came out and it didn't have it and everybody was some people maybe we're a [TS]

00:20:16   little annoyed that everything they had to do with the new Apple TV and november [TS]

00:20:20   was up down left right to you know where everything is [TS]

00:20:25   is this just an issue of paper it was a new version of TV OS all-new it's you [TS]

00:20:31   know integrating it with iOS we just didn't get to it by November or was this [TS]

00:20:35   like a rethink like hey a lot of people are asking us for bluetooth keyboard [TS]

00:20:39   support let's let's go back and put it back in [TS]

00:20:41   that's a great question in that case it was really simple we were doing the new [TS]

00:20:44   OS and it's something we wanted to get to [TS]

00:20:46   we knew it wasn't the majority of customers and so we felt like we could [TS]

00:20:50   add it later and we always planned it and yes i did get a few emails and [TS]

00:20:54   tweets about it okay [TS]

00:20:56   you know it's just hilarious about this those is we we have a very vocal [TS]

00:21:01   community as you know and when we were getting this feedback area even actually [TS]

00:21:08   before before making decision not including the first release that the [TS]

00:21:10   team had done the analysis based on our diagnostics and usage data you know how [TS]

00:21:14   about how many customers use bluetooth keyboard with their with their apple TV [TS]

00:21:18   every week and they charted it out over time and it's a it's a it's a small rate [TS]

00:21:23   relative to the you know many people people are using the built-in remote and [TS]

00:21:27   so forth but we noticed that that rate of use of the bluetooth keyboard dropped [TS]

00:21:31   to almost nothing during WWDC [TS]

00:21:34   and what this dullness was pretty much everyone is using it as a developer [TS]

00:21:38   who's going to WWDC or an apple employee now that doesn't stop all of them from [TS]

00:21:43   riding Eddie when it when it was missing but just to give you a sense of kind of [TS]

00:21:46   what's going on underneath all that that's that is hilarious and because i [TS]

00:21:52   was gonna I was going to say that i think it's it's a hard sell across your [TS]

00:21:58   family like whether there's one person in the family is who you know [TS]

00:22:02   technically adept wants to put a bluetooth keyboard in the living room i [TS]

00:22:05   think it's a hard sell family-wide to keep keeping keyboard in the living room [TS]

00:22:09   and we do have a little bit something even a little bit better coming out in a [TS]

00:22:12   few months which is we have a new remote app so that if you have your iphone you [TS]

00:22:17   can use the keyboard on the iphone to do that and I think that certainly will get [TS]

00:22:21   a lot more use and and more than that I mean really the full no sirree to your [TS]

00:22:25   phone communicating with your TV and it's a it's a great upgrade to that app [TS]

00:22:29   what you think there's a remote app for the iphone now that you can connect [TS]

00:22:34   apple TV there is correct set it only does the keyboard the new remote Apple [TS]

00:22:39   do all of the capabilities that the the existing new Apple TV remote does like [TS]

00:22:44   Siri and and like gestures for instance because you have obviously it you know [TS]

00:22:47   the trackpad function of the remote can be done with your phone now to with that [TS]

00:22:51   remote so it's a really full replacement [TS]

00:22:54   oh so i have a scoop here yeah eco that's actually heard it here first [TS]

00:22:59   well you can't brought you can't broadcast this for three months yeah I [TS]

00:23:05   think that's going to actually make a lot of people very happy though and it [TS]

00:23:07   might it would that work with some of the games too so that if there's a [TS]

00:23:12   two-player game that somebody could use their phone and have it be the slider [TS]

00:23:16   and somebody else can use the remote [TS]

00:23:18   yes that's exactly you can use the metal the apple TV remote for one person and [TS]

00:23:22   their phone for the second person that sounds great let's move on and sort of [TS]

00:23:30   talk about something that it almost feels like a groundhog day and it's [TS]

00:23:34   almost you know since its februari it actually is close to Groundhog Day is [TS]

00:23:37   that last year there were a couple of posts that came up early in the year [TS]

00:23:40   about Apple having [TS]

00:23:41   little tiny sort of death by a thousand paper cuts software problems across the [TS]

00:23:48   board and there was a lot of discussion about it and sort of culminated at least [TS]

00:23:52   for me when Phil Schiller was on the show at the live show WWDC and we talked [TS]

00:23:58   about it and I thought phil talked about it really openly and then it seemed to [TS]

00:24:03   fade away from the industry discussion and then last week [TS]

00:24:08   Walt Mossberg had a column in the headline was apple's a problem you got [TS]

00:24:15   what do you guys say to this this just the general nothing specific that's not [TS]

00:24:18   getting any specific app but the general idea that apple's software is has [TS]

00:24:23   declined in quality [TS]

00:24:25   let's say over the last five years i would say first that there's nothing we [TS]

00:24:31   care about more so you know it's not just me and Eddie finally lots of radars [TS]

00:24:37   and you know using our devices but everyone who works here at Apple we [TS]

00:24:41   recognize is the single most important thing about what we do and what we come [TS]

00:24:45   to work to do every day so I take extremely seriously anytime any of our [TS]

00:24:52   customer says that they are having the experience that they expected from us [TS]

00:24:56   and and clearly waltz article indicates that he is at the moment in that camp [TS]

00:25:02   III look at it and say I know our core software quality has improved over the [TS]

00:25:11   last five years and improved significantly but the bar just keeps [TS]

00:25:18   going up and that's a bar that we embrace that is a challenge that you [TS]

00:25:23   know every year we realize we the things we were good at last year and the [TS]

00:25:28   techniques we were using to build the best software we can are not adequate [TS]

00:25:33   for the next year because the bar keeps going up we have a billion active [TS]

00:25:37   devices now and you know if you think back to just nine years ago now with the [TS]

00:25:42   iphone it how much think back then of kind of how you interface with [TS]

00:25:48   technology and comparatively how narrowly each of us interface with [TS]

00:25:52   technology and now think about how integral [TS]

00:25:55   your iPhone your iPad and and still your Mac are to your life how many hours a [TS]

00:26:01   day I mean we see the usage metrics and year after year is our team builds a new [TS]

00:26:06   phone and thinks a batteries we put in this phone we have to go back to them [TS]

00:26:09   and say guys actually gonna have to update a good because people are using [TS]

00:26:12   their phones more than ever this year and we see that trend go up and up and [TS]

00:26:15   up and people are doing more and more and what this means is when you have a [TS]

00:26:19   billion people running phones in every corner of their lives with all of these [TS]

00:26:23   third-party apps and all these countries and all these languages that they're [TS]

00:26:28   going they're going to be issues there were always issues but now these issues [TS]

00:26:31   are are you know you have plenty of people that that can can encounter one [TS]

00:26:35   here and there and it gets it gets amplified and maybe I could ask you I [TS]

00:26:40   mean I i feel like something if you go back five years or ten years in in just [TS]

00:26:45   the nature of Internet journalism and the press and how stories like this get [TS]

00:26:49   communicated and amplified is is change things a little bit as well and so I [TS]

00:26:54   think that plays into this the the the element of why are we hearing about this [TS]

00:26:58   again or why do we hear about it and in in the way we do but i know we put just [TS]

00:27:04   tremendous focus on improving our game every year [TS]

00:27:09   yeah I there's there's a certain aspect to the the basic idea that to me is a [TS]

00:27:17   little bit more of a of then not just me I'm saying what I detect when I when I [TS]

00:27:21   see people nodding their heads in agreement on Twitter and and and follow [TS]

00:27:26   posts to say that the like mossberg column last week that it's more of a gut [TS]

00:27:31   feeling than anything that anybody can put their finger on and say there's this [TS]

00:27:36   one thing that you know it absolutely terrible and I know just from you know [TS]

00:27:44   talking with bill last year and like what you're saying now that you guys [TS]

00:27:48   have a lot of ways that you measure this stuff with real analytics from the [TS]

00:27:54   Diagnostics that people explicitly opt-in to provide to you when they're [TS]

00:27:59   setting up devices that's right and that it there [TS]

00:28:03   I sense that you guys I mean you two are both you know optimistic cheerful people [TS]

00:28:07   but I'd I can't [TS]

00:28:08   help but i suspect and it's not coming from your voices here on this show but I [TS]

00:28:13   just suspect in general that there's a sort of frustration within the walls at [TS]

00:28:17   Apple that you guys have these numbers thats a software quality is going up and [TS]

00:28:23   then on the outside everybody is saying wow so Apple software their their eyes [TS]

00:28:27   off the ball is that is it frustrating [TS]

00:28:29   no look I think you said a few words that i would i would disagree with you [TS]

00:28:33   said everybody i think right [TS]

00:28:35   the vast majority of our customers are quite happy with our products and the [TS]

00:28:39   feedback that they they get and and they ask for help and that's why we built [TS]

00:28:43   things like genius bars which have been very popular why we you know we spend a [TS]

00:28:48   great deal of money and effort on our apple care and support line so that when [TS]

00:28:52   people need help you know training all of those things so i think it's it's not [TS]

00:28:58   to say that we don't have any bugs or that we don't have any issues every [TS]

00:29:02   every piece of software does we care deeply about it which is why we all you [TS]

00:29:06   know do all these different touch points monitor them look at the make sure we're [TS]

00:29:10   addressing them and and at the same time is doing that upping the game even more [TS]

00:29:15   because part of upping the game is not just standing still and making things [TS]

00:29:19   that you have work but making them even better make him easier to use those are [TS]

00:29:24   all the things we have to at the same time in apple customers deserve the best [TS]

00:29:30   and that's that's absolutely what we're signed up for so if if in way when we [TS]

00:29:36   hear people are having challenges I'm on the one hand where were frustrated of [TS]

00:29:43   course to hear it overall characterized as as this the quality is dropping [TS]

00:29:49   overall because because we know that's not true but at the same time there's [TS]

00:29:52   certainly reality too if people are having these experiences then there's [TS]

00:29:58   something we can improve and i can tell you than the number of meetings we have [TS]

00:30:03   and have had even over the last few weeks where we're constantly talking [TS]

00:30:06   about how do we up the game because he'd when you talk about a billion customers [TS]

00:30:12   and you talk about the kind of upgrade rates we have I mean I I think back to [TS]

00:30:16   when we ship snow leopard and you know how many people install 10 . six . o [TS]

00:30:21   it effectively no one [TS]

00:30:24   look I mean you know it approximately no one in fact we used to talk about what [TS]

00:30:29   the the upgrade rate to this OS will about match the sales of new max that [TS]

00:30:32   have it installed [TS]

00:30:34   you know I mean people just didn't upgrade if they did upgrade it's like [TS]

00:30:37   why do we wait for 10 . six . five or something that you know now we release a [TS]

00:30:41   piece of software and in a matter of a couple of weeks we have you know coming [TS]

00:30:47   up on fifty percent of our base running that piece of software i mean hundreds [TS]

00:30:51   of millions of people suddenly pounding on it running a diversity of apps that [TS]

00:30:56   just is is unprecedented and and using it in these incredibly connected ways [TS]

00:31:00   and so yeah the bar the bar is higher and we will continue to adapt every year [TS]

00:31:08   to meet that challenge and the scale the scale John for this is truly amazing [TS]

00:31:14   because of the you usage that people i mean they rely on these for their lives [TS]

00:31:18   I'll give you a couple points that we peek out at 200,000 messages a second [TS]

00:31:24   that are sent on messages for example we do 750 million transactions every week [TS]

00:31:32   in our App Store itunes store we've done billions of dollars now you're talking [TS]

00:31:37   about dollars for payments and Apple pay so you know this is like it's a part of [TS]

00:31:43   everyone's lives and it's great we love this this is the reason why we know we [TS]

00:31:49   do what we do and we get up in the morning we're excited about coming in is [TS]

00:31:52   because we can do more and so the scale of this is is HUGE HUGE [TS]

00:31:59   so what was the number 4 hot for messages 200k per second at the peak [TS]

00:32:04   that's right that's people got a lot to say apparently yeah that was probably [TS]

00:32:09   right like right at the moment in the first quarter the superbowl where they [TS]

00:32:14   didn't overturn that catch [TS]

00:32:16   hey force obviously for some reason it was really high from North Carolina I [TS]

00:32:21   don't know what was but that is extraordinary [TS]

00:32:26   so that that Eddie that gets to a specific point and this is clearly and [TS]

00:32:31   in a ball that's in your court is is the general [TS]

00:32:35   I mean that Apple doesn't do online service as well and you know that's [TS]

00:32:40   that's your responsibility [TS]

00:32:42   Oh what do you say to that well I i think you go back to the things that we [TS]

00:32:48   do really well some of that we earned to be clear right part of the reason we did [TS]

00:32:53   that many years ago with mobileme your maps but we've corrected those and you [TS]

00:32:57   look at iCloud we do you know we have 782 million I cloud users some have [TS]

00:33:04   multiple devices which is why we have a billion devices they upload billions of [TS]

00:33:09   photos every single week every single day and you you look at the scale of [TS]

00:33:15   messages you look at Apple pay you look at our stores we run some of the largest [TS]

00:33:21   services in the world very successfully you take a look at maps we've we've [TS]

00:33:28   corrected more than a two-and-a-half million customer feedback that we've [TS]

00:33:34   gotten from customers directly to maps that we've corrected and notified them [TS]

00:33:37   back that we fix them so that the scale of this is huge and I would compare it [TS]

00:33:42   to any company out there and and the ramp is unbelievable I mean you consider [TS]

00:33:47   when we launched a new release of iOS and OS 10 and the corresponding cloud [TS]

00:33:52   services how we go from effectively 02 unbelievable international scale you [TS]

00:34:01   know literally overnight [TS]

00:34:03   it's incredible and the team has you know done that at a scale i think that [TS]

00:34:08   is I I can't think of another another example of what happens when we turn the [TS]

00:34:13   lights on on and on a new service like we do and you know it did generally goes [TS]

00:34:19   off without a hitch [TS]

00:34:20   the other thing i love about which is I i love this [TS]

00:34:23   we were not harping our services as the brand the service isn't the the thing [TS]

00:34:29   it's the experience and so you know whether you're typing in a note on your [TS]

00:34:34   iPhone and it's on your Mac we're not advertising this is not-- services or [TS]

00:34:40   anything we just want the experience to be so a lot of these things are behind [TS]

00:34:43   the scenes and they just work and it's great for customers [TS]

00:34:46   yeah even I message is a good example of that and i personally have I i I'd send [TS]

00:34:53   i don't know i i'm a big chunk of that 200,000 messages per second [TS]

00:34:57   I idea I spend I send a lot of messages and almost all my messages are blue [TS]

00:35:04   well yeah you have to have good friends [TS]

00:35:07   yes smart 1i but if you just look at how many people are using a I message and [TS]

00:35:17   how many messages they're sending it compares you know very very favorably to [TS]

00:35:22   a lot of the independent messaging apps and services out there like what at what [TS]

00:35:28   happened we chattin and things like that that and and I feel like that's one of [TS]

00:35:33   those things that apple doesn't really get credit for that they've got this [TS]

00:35:35   messaging service with a extraordinary number of users who are extraordinarily [TS]

00:35:41   engaged with it and it's it's not really figured into you know what Apple does it [TS]

00:35:46   all because you guys don't really brand it that way you're just like hey just [TS]

00:35:49   use this app and send it you know send it to the send your message to the [TS]

00:35:53   person you know and it goes through [TS]

00:35:54   yeah I think that's what's what's great really about about what we do is we tie [TS]

00:36:00   together you know the hardware the software and services in a way that you [TS]

00:36:05   aren't thinking you just used a cloud service necessarily when you bought your [TS]

00:36:09   new iphone and all your settings came back exactly the way expected and so [TS]

00:36:12   forth or when we do a feature like Apple pay I mean Apple pay is a hardware [TS]

00:36:16   feature it's a software feature it's a cloud feature and it just works and it's [TS]

00:36:23   a tremendous complex undertaking but the customer doesn't have to think about any [TS]

00:36:27   of those component pieces they they get an experience that hopefully delights [TS]

00:36:31   them i'll give you a real quick anecdote hopefully quick i was on an airplane [TS]

00:36:35   recently and [TS]

00:36:37   is the plane took off and I got on the Wi-Fi and an online service from a [TS]

00:36:42   different company wasn't an apple thing with somebody else gave me a warning [TS]

00:36:46   that I couldn't you know look like I was signing in from an unusual location [TS]

00:36:49   because it was I don't know where the plane Wi-Fi was saying from how do i [TS]

00:36:53   want to verify that it's really me and I the only options were to get a phone [TS]

00:36:57   call or an SMS text message which yeah I can't get because I'm 10,000 feet up in [TS]

00:37:02   here and I showed it to the guy this that my friend for the day sitting next [TS]

00:37:06   to me on the plane who you know we spoken before the flight took off and he [TS]

00:37:11   was like oh you can get text I'm texting my I'm texting my wife right now he was [TS]

00:37:15   sending an is right and I just like oh yeah okay I'll do that you know didn't [TS]

00:37:19   want to explain but it used a hit he thought he was solving my problem [TS]

00:37:23   because he just thought wow it's great this is absolutely wonderful i'm texting [TS]

00:37:26   right now [TS]

00:37:27   he didn't really have to think about what he's using to text she's just doing [TS]

00:37:31   it [TS]

00:37:32   yeah i think it's a fantastic example so let's shift from services to talk about [TS]

00:37:44   a specific software which isn't really about how it works but really sort of [TS]

00:37:49   how its design and it's it's itunes on the desktop and here is where i wanted [TS]

00:37:53   to quote wall so here's what Walt Mossberg wrote Apple's iTunes program [TS]

00:37:58   was once the envy of the world combined digital music storm player it could also [TS]

00:38:02   sync your ipod and it worked on both Mac and Windows it was reasonably fast and [TS]

00:38:06   very sure-footed now I dread opening the thing that and and that's sort of [TS]

00:38:14   damning and the thing that to me is more damning is that i don't i see a lot of [TS]

00:38:19   people who agree with that and I don't see anybody who really disagrees with it [TS]

00:38:24   yeah I look I let's go back to waltz waltz thing specifically to address [TS]

00:38:29   which is performance issues in that we've actually looked at nothing to do [TS]

00:38:35   with itunes but your question is still dead on because it's something we [TS]

00:38:38   started about two years ago thinking about what we wanted to do with itunes [TS]

00:38:41   and let me walk you back with what was designed from and where I think it can [TS]

00:38:47   go to so first of all we designed in a time when everybody was sinking directly [TS]

00:38:53   via cable so the things didn't exist in the cloud and having a centralized place [TS]

00:38:59   where all of your content was there to sync was really key because it made it [TS]

00:39:03   really easy to do didn't matter where the content was you didn't have to [TS]

00:39:06   launch multiple apps you didn't have a separate app that made it really [TS]

00:39:09   difficult to see and so it works really really well and by the way given that we [TS]

00:39:13   have a billion devices out there there's still hundreds of millions of people [TS]

00:39:16   doing exactly that when we went to apple music we said well let's see we're [TS]

00:39:21   building a new service why don't we do it all in the cloud its Apple music soul [TS]

00:39:24   in the cloud let's do it that way and one of the things that we wanted to do [TS]

00:39:29   that was different was we didn't want just the music that lived in the cloud [TS]

00:39:32   if you had music whether it was you know a live performance Bruce Springsteen for [TS]

00:39:38   example which i just bought haven't seen the new show and I'm a huge bruise fan [TS]

00:39:42   how do i get that to the cloud well and most the services that are out there [TS]

00:39:45   there's no way to do that because it was an itunes that lets you do that and it's [TS]

00:39:49   very easy to upload that into the cloud and then exist in all of your devices [TS]

00:39:53   and so we decided that in the short term we wanted to do is is really make it so [TS]

00:39:58   that when you're in music and itunes all you see is music and and if you were [TS]

00:40:03   doing a separate music app it would really look a lot like itunes when [TS]

00:40:07   you're in the music player because there's only one area where you pick [TS]

00:40:11   which media type you want to do [TS]

00:40:13   that's not to say that we are continuing and will continue to think about what's [TS]

00:40:17   the best way to architect the app and whether it makes sense to a separate app [TS]

00:40:21   for some of the components that are in their all the components that are in [TS]

00:40:24   there but right now we think we've designed itunes and and you'll see it [TS]

00:40:28   we've got a new refreshed with the new version of os pendants coming out [TS]

00:40:32   next month that makes it even easier to use in the music space and they're [TS]

00:40:37   definitely there's a big responsibility and transitioning the experiences for [TS]

00:40:42   for a lot of these apps so these are so important to people we see it every time [TS]

00:40:46   we change them at all you know there are cases where you look at photos where we [TS]

00:40:50   did a really bold rethink of where photos needed to go and and how to [TS]

00:40:55   transition and by and large I think that's been well-received and I I i [TS]

00:41:00   personally love it and but but you'll hear people who say hold on you know [TS]

00:41:04   there was a reason why i like the way things used to be and people are pretty [TS]

00:41:08   serious about their music and about their collection and so I think I think [TS]

00:41:15   we we talk a lot we debate pretty heavily internally the right the right [TS]

00:41:19   way to evolve these things and and you know we we tend to err on the side of [TS]

00:41:23   being pretty bold but there there's a lot of responsibility we could be you [TS]

00:41:29   get the other side of these these stories you know some of the people when [TS]

00:41:33   you talk about people not in your your head if I if I look at some of the [TS]

00:41:36   comments that come online when people say yeah apple apples quality is bad and [TS]

00:41:41   someone will say yeah like when they took away my my I photo and replaced [TS]

00:41:45   with photos I don't like the new Photos app and that's why they think Apple [TS]

00:41:49   software quality is bad now many of us would say well hold on no there's [TS]

00:41:52   exactly an example of where Apple software quality is is quite good we [TS]

00:41:57   delivered something faster cleaner simpler but someone's gonna say no but [TS]

00:42:01   it's changed and and I was attached to it and so this is a this is a tricky [TS]

00:42:06   balancing act and I think our customers give us a lot of responsibility to [TS]

00:42:11   thoughtfully evolve their experiences and we we try to take that [TS]

00:42:15   responsibility very seriously i don't i don't think anybody would disagree that [TS]

00:42:18   institutionally Apple it compared to its that any company my compared against his [TS]

00:42:23   has been always more willing to push through changes whether you go back to [TS]

00:42:30   the eighties and say that the the Macintosh debuted without any kind of [TS]

00:42:33   command line at all which was the only way anybody knew how to use a computer [TS]

00:42:36   until then they're like no this is the right way you know that to another [TS]

00:42:41   almost canonical example of it was the 1998 orig [TS]

00:42:45   climax shipping without a floppy disk and it's nobody's ever i can have a [TS]

00:42:49   personal computer without a floppy disk little things like that do you do you [TS]

00:42:54   guys find though that it's getting harder to do that now that you're [TS]

00:42:57   talking about having 700 800 million users is a harder because of that resist [TS]

00:43:03   that that natural part of humanity that just is resistant to change of any kind [TS]

00:43:07   sure it's of course it's harder when you have more customers [TS]

00:43:11   those things are harder to do but that doesn't at least for me and I've been [TS]

00:43:15   here when we were really small and that were much larger it hasn't really [TS]

00:43:19   changed we were still willing to push we just have to make sure that we we think [TS]

00:43:23   about the ways that people are using the product and when we make the changes [TS]

00:43:27   that they're not significant and we're improving more than we're actually [TS]

00:43:32   taking away or that it's the right thing to do and so we you have to be a little [TS]

00:43:36   more conscious of understanding all the different ways in which customers use it [TS]

00:43:40   but you better you bet we got to keep pushing because if you want to innovate [TS]

00:43:43   you gotta move [TS]

00:43:45   you can't sit still with what you have yeah and it's so strong internally i [TS]

00:43:49   mean the base to the the base instinct of everyone here is let's let's do it [TS]

00:43:55   let's do it the right way if this is now the right way [TS]

00:43:59   forget the past let's do it the right way and it's a second thought that will [TS]

00:44:02   hold on okay what does that mean for the transition and and and taking our [TS]

00:44:06   customers along with us on this but it's it's so integral Doe who we are and how [TS]

00:44:11   people think hear that yeah there there's more of an external there's a [TS]

00:44:16   larger customer base that we have responsibility for but we know part of [TS]

00:44:20   why they're Apple customers because that's what they expect from us we would [TS]

00:44:24   be doing them a disservice if we stopped pushing all right let me let me make [TS]

00:44:29   this specific comparison between two apps that we've just been talking about [TS]

00:44:32   is I itunes and photos for mac so in the digital hub era when the mac was [TS]

00:44:40   positioned here's our idea for the Mac it's your digital hub for all of these [TS]

00:44:44   little devices like cameras and ipods that you that you have in your life [TS]

00:44:48   I photo was the mac solution of photos and itunes was the mac and windows [TS]

00:44:53   solution to music and then later you know media like TV shows and stuff [TS]

00:44:58   the new strategy is clearly iCloud centric I mean you guys have been [TS]

00:45:03   explicit about that since I cloud was announced in on stage in 2011 [TS]

00:45:08   yeah and it didn't come right away it wasn't like photos format came out [TS]

00:45:13   immediately but that was the answer in $YEAR and last year was really that [TS]

00:45:16   transition year but the idea was look I photo is great for then but now we've [TS]

00:45:21   got this Photos app which is truly just appear to what you've got on your iOS [TS]

00:45:27   devices and its really designed for the modern age in the modern modern model [TS]

00:45:30   and itunes and music haven't really made that shift is is that because music is [TS]

00:45:36   different and because itunes different responsibilities or is it because itunes [TS]

00:45:40   has to exist for windows and iphoto didn't or or is it something else [TS]

00:45:44   no it's look I think you're seeing music make that transition now since last year [TS]

00:45:49   when we introduced Apple music [TS]

00:45:51   the truth is music before that was very local it really didn't live in the cloud [TS]

00:45:55   and you you moved your content by moving it to a device locally and and then the [TS]

00:46:01   device was there and then if you wanted to update that device you brought it [TS]

00:46:04   back now that we've and it's not just bringing a subscription service as I [TS]

00:46:08   said it's about bringing all of your music no matter how you acquired it if [TS]

00:46:12   it doesn't exist in the subscription service and you bought yourself [TS]

00:46:15   separately or it's available separately as a bootleg all of the things that you [TS]

00:46:20   that you consume with music and we're seeing that transition now so for myself [TS]

00:46:25   you know I live in a world where my music is all in the cloud and I think [TS]

00:46:30   we're going to see more and more customers we just passed over 11 million [TS]

00:46:33   Apple music subscribers and all of those people live in a world where music is in [TS]

00:46:38   the cloud [TS]

00:46:41   ah it did so that's a big no 11 million the Apple music subscribers is it is a [TS]

00:46:48   big number and it's only since ma wanted to come out of beta it well it came out [TS]

00:46:53   in September but we gave away the the first 3 months for free so tight so [TS]

00:46:57   think about it as a you know later in the year went over it it so it the end [TS]

00:47:03   of growth rate is is good on that we've been very pleased it's it's great we [TS]

00:47:08   just [TS]

00:47:09   just this past week we introduced in taiwan and we also introduced in Turkey [TS]

00:47:14   which has been great we introduce the version for Android our first android [TS]

00:47:19   application and our second we had we had moved to iOS that's true thank you [TS]

00:47:26   much-loved app on the Android Play Store it's always a good always a good source [TS]

00:47:32   of humor is to go [TS]

00:47:34   it's like going to read the yelp reviews for your favorite local restaurants and [TS]

00:47:37   seeing seeing the people who don't get it [TS]

00:47:41   and one of the things we've learned by the way is as we've gone to Apple music [TS]

00:47:44   is that we have to educate people as much as all of us know about music [TS]

00:47:50   subscriptions when you go around the world [TS]

00:47:52   what does it mean to be to have access to all of the music in the world and [TS]

00:47:58   what does that mean and how does that work and and that's something that we're [TS]

00:48:02   doing a lot of work on right now because we noticed that you know a lot of times [TS]

00:48:06   people just didn't understand the concept what you mean i pay 99 what do I [TS]

00:48:09   get how do i get it all of those things and that's been a big part of moving the [TS]

00:48:15   number and continuing to move the number forward right before we wrap this up [TS]

00:48:19   there's there's a topic I want to get to and as I guess it's a little bit more on [TS]

00:48:23   craigs side of the court but I've got some good friends so if i don't talk [TS]

00:48:26   about this I think you're going to just shoot me because i have the opportunity [TS]

00:48:29   this about a dynamic dispatch an objective-c I'm ready [TS]

00:48:32   oh so I is about radar so any mentioned that with maps maps has a feature where [TS]

00:48:40   if you see an error you can report the error and when it gets fixed you get [TS]

00:48:44   notified and says hey thank you for reporting that you know that this road [TS]

00:48:48   is not where it used to be where there's a new road here we have now fixed it [TS]

00:48:54   what I hear a lot from my friends who are third-party developers is that sense [TS]

00:49:00   that radar is nearly a black hole that you file your report it goes in there [TS]

00:49:06   and an awful lot of bugs that even even ones that are submitted with examples [TS]

00:49:12   like here run this example code and it will prove that this is a bug in this [TS]

00:49:15   form new version of the OS and then you just never they just never hear anything [TS]

00:49:19   yeah like how can grade are getting more like Apple maps where it it gives I i'm [TS]

00:49:26   serious i think the developers really end and I feel like it's it's a it's a [TS]

00:49:31   what's that I don't know what the opposite of a virtuous circle and in [TS]

00:49:34   virtuous circle where developers if they feel like it's a black hole they report [TS]

00:49:38   fewer bugs because they feel like they're wasting their time and [TS]

00:49:41   developers not reporting bugs is I'm sure not what you want but that's for [TS]

00:49:46   sure [TS]

00:49:46   yeah um where I mean quite honestly we're not where we want to be with with [TS]

00:49:51   radar as an externally facing tool I mean it's the lifeblood of the [TS]

00:49:54   organization in terms of how we we manager bugs and manage our releases and [TS]

00:49:58   I file tons of them and and so does everyone who works works here in [TS]

00:50:03   software but our external interface is not great and a big part of that is [TS]

00:50:09   something we struggle with is how we sort out communicating about the issues [TS]

00:50:14   that we fix because you may report an issue we may do pit to a bug that were [TS]

00:50:21   working on fixing we may fix that bug maybe we fix it in iOS 10 maybe we fix [TS]

00:50:25   it in something that's probably going to go in iOS 9 . 3 you want to know that we [TS]

00:50:29   fixed it we don't necessarily right now have a great way to decide when we want [TS]

00:50:35   to communicate to you that there's a release that it's getting fixed in that [TS]

00:50:37   were promising that that the fix is going to happen and so we fundamentally [TS]

00:50:42   of communication feedback problems that we need to sort out i can tell you that [TS]

00:50:45   the reports do get read that they do influence what we do but our back [TS]

00:50:50   channel communication is needs needs some work because we we we are reading [TS]

00:50:58   them we just don't tell you what's happening with them and I understand [TS]

00:51:01   absolutely the frustration of a lot of a lot of developers who file those bugs do [TS]

00:51:07   you agree that that sort of improving that as as a it is sort of a point where [TS]

00:51:13   the trickle down from that where if you guys can improve the back-channel [TS]

00:51:15   communications from radar it would influence the sort of lots of little [TS]

00:51:20   bugs getting fixed that people are complaining about an address it's like a [TS]

00:51:25   centralized place to address the widespread entire user base wide program [TS]

00:51:30   a problem of hate this little thing [TS]

00:51:32   is going wrong and I don't understand why I i think i think it helps I think [TS]

00:51:37   we we have other ways also that we're getting a lot of great feedback we did [TS]

00:51:40   our our first as you know public beta for iOS and year ago the public beta for [TS]

00:51:44   OS 10 and actually in that way brought you over million people in into the [TS]

00:51:50   program and we did include in those a feedback assistant tool which was meant [TS]

00:51:55   as a as a you know kind of radar like feedback tool but one that we could you [TS]

00:52:00   know the average person can choose whether an iOS and OS 10 and it [TS]

00:52:03   automatically not only just give us what the user types but it automatically [TS]

00:52:07   gives us a lot of additional diagnostics they they get prompted and so is it okay [TS]

00:52:12   if we send this in this back and gives us some really great actionable [TS]

00:52:16   information about the issues then covered so that's that's another great [TS]

00:52:20   channel to find out about the issues people are are running into and it's [TS]

00:52:24   made a huge difference on the the quality of our software i mean we just [TS]

00:52:30   one metric and it's not there there's lots of different ways in which lots of [TS]

00:52:34   different kinds of feedback we get but something is very measurable things like [TS]

00:52:36   crash rate and i can tell you in the past you see this the seesaw pattern [TS]

00:52:40   where add audio release would come out and that would have a you know certain [TS]

00:52:44   hi crash rate and then we'd issue or software updates and that rate would go [TS]

00:52:48   down after doing a public beta here for iOS our release our . 049 . o was better [TS]

00:52:57   than any previous release of iOS 8 that the numbers that and and those are the [TS]

00:53:02   kind of systematic steps we can get feedback from our from our users both [TS]

00:53:06   automatic and and the kind of things where they write up an issue and it [TS]

00:53:10   helps us improve the product so you're going to see more and more of that from [TS]

00:53:13   us and we think it continues to pay off [TS]

00:53:16   so you're just abbreviate that I just make sure I heard you correctly you're [TS]

00:53:20   saying that when nine-point-oh came out the release version that the crash rate [TS]

00:53:24   for apps was actually lower than the version of iOS 8 whatever the you know [TS]

00:53:29   stable version of iOS 8 was that people were upgrading from that's right of our [TS]

00:53:32   apps writer [TS]

00:53:34   okay yeah yeah third party apps are a I don't actually have the number on that [TS]

00:53:40   but they're there uh that's always a challenge i mean what's the one thing [TS]

00:53:43   honestly that can happen to us on quality [TS]

00:53:46   is sometimes also a third party will happen to ship a nap about the same time [TS]

00:53:50   we ship in OS update and an independent of that app starts crashing and that [TS]

00:53:53   affects user party so you gotta cut it's always a challenge to cut through the [TS]

00:53:56   noise but we have pretty good analytics and our numbers are you no Sean we're on [TS]

00:54:02   the right track there [TS]

00:54:03   well it's it's about the time to wrap this up i wanted to know that because [TS]

00:54:07   you guys are nice and quiet is there anything that I haven't asked you that [TS]

00:54:10   you wished i had is there something that you guys were wanted to talk about that [TS]

00:54:15   we haven't discussed well since this is an audio podcast and not a video 1 i'm [TS]

00:54:21   disappointed that you can see the purple shirt on work he did really rise to the [TS]

00:54:25   occasion I don't know that he thought he was gonna be on camera here but he's in [TS]

00:54:28   full stage where it's you know I I thought about that just before we got on [TS]

00:54:33   the air ice think I i linked to a story The New York Times had about this [TS]

00:54:39   amazing science that that astronomers have done where they they've measured as [TS]

00:54:44   audio this gravitational wave that proves this thing I'm Stein predicted a [TS]

00:54:50   hundred years ago that if two black holes collided you'd be able to produce [TS]

00:54:53   this gravity way that you can hear and I thought wouldn't that be great with a [TS]

00:54:56   microphone that could produce this sound of various Eddie's yes [TS]

00:55:05   yeah we also really didn't send us that experience yeah and it's all the senses [TS]

00:55:10   come alive when we see a t-shirt [TS]

00:55:12   we just didn't have enough time to set up the technology maybe next time this [TS]

00:55:18   was great [TS]

00:55:20   I i hope you guys enjoyed it as much as i did I love John I got one question for [TS]

00:55:23   you though so against we started with sports and it's almost baseball season [TS]

00:55:28   give me your world series production [TS]

00:55:32   I i hate to say about it i think the Cubs because it doesn't seem like a good [TS]

00:55:39   bet but for the Cubs look good in the National League and the American League [TS]

00:55:45   boy I i I'll just go out on a limb and say the new york yankees [TS]

00:55:51   ha ha ha that was fulfilled so that's good that's great you got to remember [TS]

00:55:58   though it isn't even year and even years san francisco giants always win [TS]

00:56:03   that's the weirdest little like inexplicable like they've and they've [TS]

00:56:08   kept the core together I don't understand that at all i don't know if [TS]

00:56:11   they just party way too hard after they went a world series and tanks the whole [TS]

00:56:15   next season are or what but that is the weirdest little mini dynasty streak I've [TS]

00:56:21   ever seen his cuz I i don't know i don't know that i'd want to bet against the [TS]

00:56:24   giant snakes here [TS]

00:56:25   alright was great talking to you thank you thank you both [TS]

00:56:29   Eddy Cue Craig federighi I really greatly appreciate the time [TS]

00:56:34   thanks John [TS]