140: ‘Apple’s 2015 Year in Review’, With Special Guest Rene Ritchie

0:00:00get any good for the Christmas as the art of star wars the force awakens

0:00:05serenity recommend it is really good

0:00:08what was that was that thats application was all the design process yeah it shows

0:00:12the design process they went through which always find fascinating it seems

0:00:17how do they make the book how's the book already out i will be showing stuff that

0:00:21they've been working on for years and years like early concepts for the movies

0:00:24and designs they did and things that changed an awful lot and started getting

0:00:28that able to come back and forth while he was working on star track 22 kibbutz

0:00:31about tickets i would say keep it commits wrong I'm wrong I don't know

0:00:38what day I finally got a little bit edition line so I what changed

0:00:45I don't want to i I've only just started it because I've gotten so not used to

0:00:49looking at physical media anymore that it's a slow reading process for me but a

0:00:54lot of the early designs we're just very different and the just one way to look

0:00:59at some of the character ideas that they had always get the feeling that Abrams

0:01:04rights by the seat of his pants which is not my favorite characteristic of his

0:01:07yeah maybe I definitely keep saying I don't want to go all star wars on this i

0:01:14do think I mean that's to his reputation i mean i don't know him personally but I

0:01:20mean it's certainly his reputation and it's like as one my friends put it that

0:01:24is that he inevitably heads into every movie like production starts with the

0:01:29story 85% written yes it's just that's his style you know and I don't know that

0:01:36it's never going to change when you get wonderful set pieces and sometimes the

0:01:40story takes a backseat to them i did like a force to work the force awakens

0:01:45that I don't want to believe people without that I mean I think it four

0:01:49times i love the damn thing would you have gone seen it four times anyway I

0:01:53mean you really like it that much

0:01:55I've seen it twice I can't watch the prequels again i have an inability to

0:01:58why I can watch movies a lot and I can't watch the prequels or or manistee movies

0:02:02like that I just can't watch again

0:02:03so this to me it has to be a good book good star wars me to watch it repeatedly

0:02:06man of steel and again

0:02:09I don't understand how that movie I don't understand how that movie got made

0:02:14I they don't have a Kevin Fahey you just overseas DC's properties no one no one

0:02:19gives a shit right it's like you somehow run that up the chain at Warner Brothers

0:02:24which is like we're ultimately falls right act 3 is going to heat vision of

0:02:30my Kryptonian babies ok go for it

0:02:32yeah i mean it's its bottom terrible movie but it's not Superman you know yes

0:02:39and that the whole idea of shooting it with that incredibly weird color palette

0:02:46is so bizarre to me i don't understand how they have Superman vs Batman which

0:02:52might be a good movie but it's as dark and dreary as a suicide squad so I I

0:02:55don't know how you have joker in a world where Superman might as well be the

0:02:58Joker it's just it's a very odd juxtaposition

0:03:00yeah i mean i never definitely some good moments in the movie but it's better

0:03:04anyway force awakens I liked it a lot

0:03:06I you know have some complaints I don't love it but then again I don't think

0:03:12that this is this is no spoiler ya again I will have you know you leave your ears

0:03:17open if you haven't seen it yet but you should you should definitely see it

0:03:21before you listen to the next episode of of the talk show i feel like with this

0:03:25one I feel like like with for example like with Spector i'll be very very

0:03:30cognizant of spoilers because I don't know that everybody goes to see it right

0:03:34away i feel like with Star Wars your sort of under an obligation or if you

0:03:36haven't seen it by say the end of the calendar year that then it's on you if

0:03:42you're talking about spoilers i will just say I should say that this was a

0:03:46Star Wars movie to me and the other ones weren't so this to me is like the first

0:03:48real star wars movie had an almost 40 years

0:03:51yeah definitely already felt like it well i don't know i don't have i'm not a

0:03:55prequel hater but i did I only want to rewatch coming up to this was because i

0:04:01watched them all a lot with my son when he was younger from I've seen the

0:04:05prequels ton of times just because he liked all the Star Wars movies and I

0:04:10didn't hate any of them even the Phantom Menace I didn't hate I mean obviously a

0:04:14lot of complaints with it but I didn't hate it and never redeemable moments in

0:04:20all of them are enjoyable moment

0:04:22all of them but the one that I definitely thought I like the best was

0:04:26prevented the set and I'm sorry watch that one before watching the specialized

0:04:32editions of the original trilogy before seeing this and even that one was even

0:04:39it it gets worse as time goes on like I had have Siri is that the prequels and

0:04:45the special edition of George Lucas's punishment to us for liking Star Wars

0:04:48more than him

0:04:49I i I'm I'm so baffled that those movies came at that's one of the things in the

0:04:57eye I know I've said this before but it's like I feel like the the prequels

0:05:04as they are without changing one thing about them make sense in the universe

0:05:11where George Lucas didn't control star wars or had sold control of star wars in

0:05:18the early nineties a DC comics and yeah and something like that happened like DC

0:05:23and Warner Brothers in DC Comics certain you know some idiots at Fox did this and

0:05:29it's like all what a crying shame but you know what they've done

0:05:33it's baffling that he had complete authorial control over the whole thing

0:05:39and that the guy who came up with you know and egg deservedly so gets all the

0:05:44credit in the world for the original trilogy that he hit that it was him who

0:05:49did this and you know that there's no indication that he was ever you know

0:05:54suffered any kind of severe head injury or like to do is experimental films and

0:06:01I think he kind of thinks we didn't let him that because of Star Wars he wasn't

0:06:03allowed to make the experimental films they really wanted to make that's the

0:06:08thing i don't have people know this but it's like he react really who George

0:06:11Lucas wasn't if you look at like THX 1138 or even like the student version of

0:06:16it before it they were really really i mean they're true art films in the

0:06:20sixties and seventies sent i but i but that's not yeah I don't know and yes I I

0:06:29feel like he really likes the prequels I really do when you listen to him talk

0:06:33I don't think that he was spiteful

0:06:35I feel like that's what he somehow that's what he decided he wanted to make

0:06:39but anyway it doesn't hold up well and i also would say most in incredibly to me

0:06:44is that the effects really don't hold up and in and especially in the well I

0:06:50didn't watch the other two recently but when I rewatched the blu-ray version of

0:06:55revenge of the sith I was really kind of startled because it had been several

0:07:00years since I'd seen and it i was really startled but at how poorly i thought the

0:07:04effects held up overall but then when you watch because i did the same thing

0:07:07is you i watch the d specialized editions right before going to see the

0:07:10force awakens and those effects holdup great

0:07:12yeah yeah i mean you can definitely even the ones that are you know like you can

0:07:15kind of see that it's not real maybe the the stop-motion on like a walker or

0:07:20something isn't quite isn't quite right but in it the way that it fails it

0:07:28doesn't get worse as time goes on like it'll get it fails in a way that it

0:07:33failed right when they came out you know or you know gets to like the

0:07:36ninety-eight ninety-nine percent marker and there's a certain charm to

0:07:39absolutely i think the biggest thing that really strikes me about the the

0:07:46prequel trilogy effects wise is is the the the uncanny valley of the almost the

0:07:57fact that almost everything was shot against a green screen and I almost the

0:08:01cartoon you can pause any scene and and just like the most mundane things like

0:08:07you know they've a meeting in Palpatine's office and it's like they're

0:08:15just having a meeting in an office and I mean you know we could go on and on and

0:08:18on about this and talk about how the fact that i like how so many of the

0:08:21scenes for meetings and Palpatine's office yes a problem the whole thing

0:08:25shots just sitting on sofas but it just it and I keep you can freeze-frame you

0:08:30know pause the thing and I I can't look at it and and articulate logically what

0:08:36it is that looks funny to me about it i can't I don't know what it is it's but

0:08:41it's there's something there is something to the whole thing where it

0:08:44just looks like you know

0:08:46like an inverse version of Roger Rabbit you've got all these real people in a

0:08:50cartoon world

0:08:53it reminds me of something you and Merlin did a taco a long time ago South

0:08:56by Southwest that I always loved in eight and it reminds me of what went

0:09:00wrong with George Lucas is that he had lost his inner editor he lost his

0:09:03external editor to take he just there was no one to tell him yes and no no one

0:09:08that had the authority to do that at least he was just surrounded by in a

0:09:11blur and you can never do great work when people around you're just saying

0:09:14yeah that's great all the time

0:09:16yeah I don't do we mentioned Lucas in particular that talk no it was just

0:09:19about that was just about Minecraft of writing

0:09:21yeah but it's definitely true i'll put a link in the show notes that was probably

0:09:26the high-water mark of my public speaking

0:09:29it was an awesome talk it was i think i've said this before to like Marilyn

0:09:36and I had this talk plan and we we had met the day before in his hotel room

0:09:41downtown austin and we had a whole talk plan and then we're going on in the

0:09:45afternoon the next day and in the morning we met again to go over it and

0:09:48we decided that it was total total rubbish and that was a terrible idea and

0:09:56so we ripped it up and we decided to do a different talk and at this point we

0:10:02were like 90 minutes away from going onstage and we're not like when we

0:10:07decided to do that but like when we had completed like a draft of it and we're

0:10:10like well let's run through it once and we ran through it once and took like 45

0:10:14minutes 15 minutes and were like oh my god that was awful

0:10:17that was even worse and we're like what do we do do we go back to the one we

0:10:19throw away or do we try to make do with this and we were like oh shit we don't

0:10:24even know we don't have a chance we not only had 30 minutes before we went

0:10:27onstage and were like this is going to be terrible and then we're like well the

0:10:29hell with it's just a panel itself by Southwest and so we went with the plan

0:10:33you know the new one and the second time we did it in front of the audience as

0:10:37soon as we finish we looked at each other like wow that was great and they

0:10:40have ever since I think more more than any other public speaking thing I've

0:10:45ever done in my life people come up to me still now and say that was that was

0:10:48pretty good yeah it was it was not standing talk people listen to if they

0:10:53haven't already

0:10:54not sure what the advices though I feel like giving people advice that if you

0:10:59ever do a run-through of a talk and it's terrible stopped me from the heart giant

0:11:04you're all set you're ready to go go onstage

0:11:07let me start or anyway the whole reason we're here is we're going to talk your

0:11:11review here we are at the end of $MONTH $DAY of $MONTH 2015 we did that you and

0:11:14I did this last year on the show I thought it was great I this is going to

0:11:18be that we shouldn't have wasted any time on the movie talk its there's a lot

0:11:21to talk about

0:11:22yeah and that's and urine review let's and mostly focused on Apple Apple is

0:11:26your interview before we get started on that 1i take our first break and thank

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0:13:45so where do we start I say we go what do you say chronological right yeah

0:13:49absolutely i think like the big thing this year is that for a couple years

0:13:53since 2012 at least Apple hadn't had a spring event so it was almost six months

0:13:57and non-use up until wEDC and this year changed all that again

0:14:02yeah it's like you can't please people because in those years when they when

0:14:06they move the ipad in like 2010-11 I think even 12

0:14:13yeah new ipads came out in the early part of the year spring late winter

0:14:19whatever you want to call it and then when they stop that like you said we've

0:14:24more or less started going like until WWDC before we heard from them and

0:14:29people would complain what the hell are they doing

0:14:32you know they've lost it they don't don't do anything anymore apples not

0:14:35innovating right now when they do it's a you know he's lost okay if they've lost

0:14:44focus

0:14:45that's exactly right there done things that were interesting to me to begin the

0:14:50year was the very beginning at least with conjecture over project Titan which

0:14:53is just broken at the end of the previous year and yours and a few other

0:14:56people talking about the price of the gold watch because we had no idea back

0:14:59then what i was going to be

0:15:01yeah so like a year ago thats really you know we knew that the Watchers coming we

0:15:05knew they were going to have a gold one

0:15:07nobody knew what it was going to cost and tighten I don't know how its

0:15:13anything different today than a year ago regarding past the car for those of you

0:15:17who don't keep out yet code names

0:15:18you know the top of your head

0:15:22I don't know that any you know it's eventually it's going to not be a you

0:15:29know a secret rumor project but i don't know that anything happened this year

0:15:33compared to last that makes it seems normal stuff

0:15:37I'm the gold watch was fascinating to me because this year more than any other it

0:15:43felt like Apple started segmenting their product line and that caused an

0:15:46incredible amount of stress and anxiety for the community because we were used

0:15:49to really they're being few products almost every one of them was for us and

0:15:53now there were gold watches and on one port macbooks and and products that

0:15:57might be apple products but not ones that we would want and that was very

0:16:00uncomfortable for a lot of people i think that we need to add to me it was I

0:16:06don't regret it because I thought it was fascinating to think about i had a lot

0:16:10of fun writing about extended guess what the watch pricing was going to be in

0:16:15hindsight though we've spent more time thinking we collectively spent more time

0:16:19thinking and speculating on what the gold Apple watch editions mean for apple

0:16:25and this watch is a product before they came out then afterwards like yes once

0:16:31they came out its like the gold one at the difference between our universe

0:16:36where the apple watch edition exist in the alternate universe where the gold

0:16:41one doesn't even exist

0:16:42it's there's almost no differences between those those two hypotheticals

0:16:46they had a nice spike in sales when apple store dubai open and that's about

0:16:50it

0:16:51oh I have noted i have seen them i saw one I forget when must have been August

0:16:59when I was in vegas for a few days in august and i saw one on somebody's wrist

0:17:03there and i know i've heard from readers have seen them you know here and there

0:17:07was but they're definitely rare enough that it's like when people do see

0:17:11somebody wearing one that they you know they think like hey al email Gruber and

0:17:15tell him I saw somebody where and when it's pretty you know for obvious reasons

0:17:18it's pretty rare I mean because they're really really quite expensive for me was

0:17:23more the sign because it as Apple gets complaints all the time that they never

0:17:26do anything differently don't take risk their own experiment they should buy

0:17:29this company to try and these are products that do take those kinds of

0:17:32risks whether they gold Apple watch it you know in the long lens of history is

0:17:36good or not at least they were willing to try something different and I like

0:17:38when Apple does that i would say this with the watch in hindsight and I just

0:17:43you know there's the year petered out are played out i guess i should say um I

0:17:49feel very strongly that the best Apple watch is the sport edition and I don't

0:17:58even mean it in the sense that you're getting more bang for your buck

0:18:02you know the way that sometimes when people do reviews of like a category of

0:18:07product and they say here's our pick for the best

0:18:11it's not necessary that they mean it's the best it's the best given the price

0:18:16you know like the best car might be the honda accord somebody would say but

0:18:20they're not trying to say that it's literally a better car than you know a

0:18:24hundred and ten thousand dollar you know top-of-the-line mercedes s-class they're

0:18:29saying that given you know I'm saying flat out that I think the apple watch

0:18:33sport edition is the best version of the watch . like all . don't worry about the

0:18:40fact that it costs less than the other one yeah he's got a wide variety of

0:18:43looks got the silver the black the rose gold the gold its superlight it's got

0:18:48the probably the best taptic engine of any of the of the watches a lot to

0:18:51recommend it it's the taptic engine that to me makes me say that because on mine

0:18:56my you know the one that I that I personally own is the black stainless

0:19:00steel one the taptic engine was never that great to start with wasn't wasn't

0:19:05broken

0:19:06I wouldn't call it broken it just didn't feel great and it certainly didn't feel

0:19:10like the demo ones that Apple had which were like the Platonic ideal of what

0:19:15this was supposed to feel like

0:19:17and quite frankly just didn't feel as good to me as the sport one that i have

0:19:20i've got a review unit sportwatch here my son has a sport edition the taptic

0:19:26engine just doesn't feel as good and the other factor is that as the years gone

0:19:30on the taptic engine in my in my black stainless one has gotten worse

0:19:35it's just somehow it's not weaker but it's like loser

0:19:39somehow it's very hard to describe

0:19:42I just feel very strongly that the sport one is as a superior product

0:19:46yeah my black stainless steel is the same i think we got ours at the same

0:19:49time

0:19:53yeah i got mine the body weight loss deal that i have is the same i and III

0:19:57don't know if that's a because it's early on and there were some rumors that

0:19:59they that they shipped later because there was trouble with one of the taptic

0:20:03engine suppliers and they had to ditch a bunch of the engines and and that's

0:20:07pushed a lot of the delivery dates out but the the stainless steel watch i got

0:20:11with her med strap later on is as a much better taptic engine so hopefully they

0:20:14figured that part out

0:20:15yes so that's interesting to me so you you got did my sport are not my sport my

0:20:21personal Apple watch is one that i ordered on the first day you cover which

0:20:25was I think april $YEAR 10 and I got it

0:20:28you know at some point in mid-may that's interesting that you so you got their

0:20:35mess one which is a stainless steel Apple watch even after all this time I

0:20:42still get I still want to call it apple watch Steel just when talking about it

0:20:47just to be a leader as opposed to Apple watches a generic platform which anyway

0:20:52that's well maybe this year they'll fix it but it's interesting to me that you

0:20:59feel like you got a better taptic engine and that one yeah and it shipped with

0:21:03watch os/2 on it so i'm guessing that it was later in the production it wasn't

0:21:06just a an original you know what they thought that I had to update when I got

0:21:10it out of the box

0:21:11mm so that's to me is is one na it interesting too that this is the the

0:21:19ongoing the only thing i don't like about the sport one is the I do wish

0:21:23that that that that that it had the state are sapphire crystal instead of

0:21:29that the glass totally understand why it doesn't because of the price but just in

0:21:35terms of giving it a a whole-hearted endorsement as if you're going to buy an

0:21:41Apple watch today which one would i recommend the only thing that would keep

0:21:44me from wholeheartedly recommending the sport ones is the fact that it doesn't

0:21:49have the Sapphire display but even my son which he has worn very regularly

0:21:55throughout the year it definitely has scratches but they're very very fine and

0:21:59they are definitely not visible unless you're looking for them like holding it

0:22:03up to the light and you know he's just an 11 year old kid he's he's pretty

0:22:08careful with this stuff but I mean it's not like he you know it hasn't exposed

0:22:12it to a lot of you know wear and tear

0:22:15we're talking about this before and that though it feels like the production

0:22:18quality on the Apple watches are it is as good if not better than any product

0:22:22apples released like the diamond like coding on the back stainless steel when

0:22:26I thought I've scratched it several times and it turned out that it's taken

0:22:29some steel or some concrete off of something else to watch itself

0:22:32underneath is fine

0:22:33yeah that's true for mine as well I will say that with the dlc coating on my and

0:22:37I sent you pictures a few weeks ago and it literally looks mint condition i

0:22:43really feel like in terms of scratches I could if just if I cleaned it with just

0:22:49warm water and you know maybe a toothbrush or whatever they say to use

0:22:52it just to clean it to get some little bit of sand and stuff like that or dust

0:22:57out of there in terms of scratches I think I could pass it off as mint like

0:23:01new and bonds it is that unbelievable and that's not true for any kind of

0:23:06normal stainless steel watch

0:23:08yes that's remarkable so I what about the launch of Apple watch in hindsight

0:23:15got a lot of I would say controversy i would say that there is controversy

0:23:20about it just in terms of the fact that it wasn't in stores you had to make

0:23:27appointments to try it on in stores even people who order right on day one had

0:23:32you know some people didn't get their watches to the end of May there were

0:23:36certain bands that didn't even ship until summer lots of people complained

0:23:42about that but is that is that just the nature of one brand new product that you

0:23:48know the first time they ever made a watch of course the rollout is going to

0:23:51be like that

0:23:52yeah I think we've seen that previously with some things like the retina

0:23:56displays in the early iphones it created production shortages and the thing with

0:24:01apples that they sprint at those deadlines it's not like they have the

0:24:04products ready way in advance to accumulate them from once they ship them

0:24:07as fast as possible and sometimes when you do that you overshoot like something

0:24:12doesn't work out I have the feeling that whether it was some of the letters for

0:24:15some of the strategies to swap out or some of the taptic engine that didn't

0:24:17have the yield rates that they needed they just didn't have enough of them on

0:24:21hand and that coupled with the fact that it was a new product you it ended up

0:24:25being a goofy launched and it felt like everything that they did was sort of an

0:24:29attempt to mitigate a the problems with getting that product on the market is

0:24:33best that they could in hindsight though like it and now after Christmas and you

0:24:39know obviously everything I saw is that there were no supply problems with any

0:24:44of the watches you know for the holidays and just talking you know create our

0:24:48friend Kirk Hockenberry just posted a thing about it

0:24:50the downloads of his little free clicker app for the watch that the despite

0:24:56savino's huge huge spike on Christmas Day you know so at least some anecdotal

0:25:01evidence that you know a significant number of people got Apple watches for

0:25:06Christmas you know which I was obviously the plans not that's not shocking or

0:25:10surprising news on but in hindsight the fact that the april may june $YEAR

0:25:16timeframe was a rocky launch in terms of having everything available when it was

0:25:21so what ya its into it it's I don't say it's concerning because it's repeated

0:25:27but we see that again with things like the Apple pencil which hasn't been

0:25:30available to to launch with the ipad pro they're getting a few and every now and

0:25:34then and again brand-new product and it's incredibly hard to coordinate the

0:25:38manufacturing for all these brand-new products all at one time with apple had

0:25:42their druthers it absolutely would want all the last time because itself are

0:25:45more that way

0:25:46what's the availability on the pencil right now still just now it's looking to

0:25:50get a few they get a few at a time and this electronically well we'll come back

0:25:57to that later but that's interesting i didn't know that that was that was hard

0:26:01to buy looks like oh yeah if you go to if you go to apple.com today i had

0:26:07record and try to buy from the website is available to ship four to five weeks

0:26:11wow yeah yeah I kind of feel like that's the nature of some of these new things

0:26:17especially ones that really are sort of

0:26:20it you know like The Watcher the pencil where it's it's not even just well we

0:26:25used to have these you know hundred and hundred and sixty some pixel per inch

0:26:31screens and now we've gone 200 you know four times the pixels 330 per inch

0:26:38you know it this is everything about it as a new thing all of it you know it's

0:26:43not just the tip or whatever other sensors are in the pencil it's the whole

0:26:47thing

0:26:48yeah everything has to be almost perfect to get it all to land at the same time

0:26:51and once in awhile it's not perfect and we see that with the watch with the

0:26:54pencil things like that so what do you think with the watch what do you think

0:27:00we're going to see this coming year you if we just look at past activities being

0:27:07the best indicator of future activities i think the watch ends up getting I

0:27:10almost like what happened with the ipad 2 or the iphone 3g where they just get

0:27:15better at making it and that manifest itself and it being lighter i don't

0:27:19necessarily have to be thinner because it's got all those it's got that center

0:27:22stack on it but there will be a new design because that's what Apple does

0:27:25and my biggest hope because you know some people are nervous that they have

0:27:29to change the casing every year i've got so many straps now biggest nightmares if

0:27:32the straps aren't compatible so I'm hoping that whatever they do with the

0:27:35watch we get scrapped compatibility for as long as we got 30-pin dock connector

0:27:38compatibility

0:27:39yeah i would hope so but on the other hand I I I don't want to bet on it

0:27:44though I I feel like that was at least their hope

0:27:46originally yes I feel like they're not going to let that constrain them if if

0:27:53it means that they if they feel like they could come out with something

0:27:56really better that they would take that bullet in the early years of the product

0:28:01will see i would if i guess if I had to bet I'd place a small bet that whatever

0:28:07the apple watch to looks like it'll be strapped compatible and there's some

0:28:12obvious gaps like the first iphone didn't have gps the first Apple watch

0:28:15didn't have the discrete gps it doesn't have discrete radio technology and

0:28:19either like you can't just go on LTE or Wi-Fi very you go on Wi-Fi myself but

0:28:23it's not full on Wi-Fi so it's things like that that once the the thermal and

0:28:27the the power constraints go down low enough for the optimized well enough

0:28:31that they'll be able to build in yeah I don't know if we're there yet

0:28:33I feel like it's not going to be a lie i feel like we're not set for a radical

0:28:40upgrade on while they're trying i was at a starbucks and have my Apple watch on

0:28:44the Tigers oh wait i have the samsung watch and it's got 3g and he ran into

0:28:48the back and he ran out with it and it was the size of a small phone

0:28:51yeah on his wrist and the other one that had 3g didn't they didn't update being

0:28:54able to ship it i forget which one that was but it was a recent watch that was

0:28:58gonna come out and all the LG LG air baby they couldn't ship because he's

0:29:02taught this stuff is really hard

0:29:04yeah I can't imagine that they're going to have independent 3gs I've I don't

0:29:10know it's gonna eventually it's going to happen I feel like one year out that

0:29:13that's a bit much to ask what I would really like to see is just for now I i

0:29:19would like to see an Apple watch to that remains a satellite of your iphone and

0:29:23just is way way way more robust in terms of having a fast responsive connection

0:29:32between the phone and the watch relies to computer on a ship is going to be

0:29:37super interesting to see ya and I feel like that's the area where they are most

0:29:43likely and again this is just looking at the last you know that we ate seven

0:29:52eight years of Apple that post iPhone Apple the thing that they have most

0:29:59consistently been able to do in terms of year-over-year improvement just giving

0:30:0412 months and see what they come up with is improve those those you know the CPUs

0:30:10and chipsets inside these devices and we can talk about this later but I one of

0:30:17my biggest story of the year for Apple was with Johnny synergies hardware

0:30:21platforms team just the work that they've done that almost never get any

0:30:24credit but from chipsets to storage controllers to things like 3d they just

0:30:29been knocking it out the park

0:30:31yeah well they don't it's not that they don't get credit and it's unrecognized

0:30:35but for the most part so much gets written about apple and it almost all

0:30:40gets written from the external

0:30:43perspective of looking at the final product and you know complaining about

0:30:49those things that you can that are exposed on the outside as opposed to

0:30:54sort of looking trying to look at it from the inside out and say good god

0:30:58this is remarkable what you know you know what the graphics performance is

0:31:03like on this ipad pro or if you really love it asked you 10 years ago who's it

0:31:08without you

0:31:08if someone to come and told you John Apple is going to be the most exciting

0:31:12chip design company in the world who would have thought they were crazy

0:31:15well yeah i think so too definitely just because it wasn't part of their history

0:31:19and now it kind of is but it's it it also it's more silent because they

0:31:25they're only customers themselves

0:31:28yes you know and they're not they're not pedaling these chips to other makers to

0:31:34do things with which is a huge advantage because they don't have to worry about

0:31:37profit for profit or loss on a chipset level they don't have to support other

0:31:40like they don't have to support things like directx on their chips and enough

0:31:43to put anyone elses architecture and they can cater to exactly what they want

0:31:46to do on the software side like 424 case 2 3 4 case dreams you know handled at

0:31:51once all right even even you know after a couple of years of these devices even

0:31:55if you look at the just like the first ipad in 2010

0:32:01so just go back at this point that would be six years ago right because we got to

0:32:06kind of start thinking about i was going to say five just 20 15-20 10 but it's

0:32:11I'm gonna have yeah well five and like 10-12 equal yeah just go back to that

0:32:17first ipad and I remember you know being very impressed by how smooth that the

0:32:22whole thing wasn't like just scrolling when I first got my hands on it but

0:32:28clearly it wasn't you know it had a lower resolution or pixels per inch

0:32:31density than the iphone did it was only like a hundred and thirty-three right

0:32:36cousin that went to 266 11 Red you can definitely see pixels and it wasn't that

0:32:42fast and then if you had given me the pixel count of the ipad pro and so when

0:32:48do you think they'll they'll be able to make one of these devices and iOS device

0:32:52with the display with that many pixels and have it you know completely complete

0:32:57you frames per second response of this i would have thought well it's possible

0:33:01but I would have thought you know maybe like 10 years and you know it was only

0:33:05five years so that you know it was at least double what i would have guessed

0:33:09as as a as a optimistic scenario is if a funny story about Steve Jobs wanting

0:33:17sushi at caffe macs so he just told him look at me the best sushi chef in the

0:33:20world they went and got him a great sushi chef and the same time he said you

0:33:23know I want something I understand these trips at things i just want to give me

0:33:26the best ship died in the world and they want him the best guy in the world and

0:33:30over the time they just kept accumulating really really good cheap

0:33:33people and i think most of them still aren't publicly well known that those

0:33:35people are working at apple but the team we've assembled there is absolutely

0:33:39industry-leading I think we're going to only see more and more impressive stuff

0:33:41from them as time goes on

0:33:43yeah and I really do feel like that's what Apple watch needs the most you know

0:33:52if we can you can criticize you know that's that there's a weird aspect to it

0:33:57in terms of watches being jewelry and watches being you know anything that

0:34:02qualifies as jewelry being something that people use to sort of signify their

0:34:07own personal sense of style and the fact that if you look at traditional watches

0:34:11it's a product category where it's almost an uncountable number of options

0:34:19even if you just said I'm gonna go to my local shopping mall and i'm going to buy

0:34:23myself a watch just in the stores in that one mall that you go to the number

0:34:29of watches that you would consider if you look at all of them is you know you

0:34:32know you wouldn't be able to do it and daggering staggering and that you know

0:34:36with with serious variety in in the in the the looks that you can go through

0:34:43and then with Apple watch the pitch is everybody's gonna get a watch that more

0:34:49or less looks the same and yes there are you know there's a difference between

0:34:52the steel and leather and the sport bands but the watch itself is

0:34:59fundamentally this identical capsule-shaped rectangle and you know

0:35:09there's a reason for that I don't think to take they can't it's not feasible for

0:35:13them even with the number you know just think about the variety of options they

0:35:16have given this limited design that's that's a weird thing and you know for

0:35:21people not to go off on a down the rabbit hole of round vs rectangular and

0:35:28you know which is the way to go for smartwatches I think they went

0:35:34rectangular for good reason but just even given that distinction alone i

0:35:39understand that then there's a reason that people could criticize that but i

0:35:43don't think that that's the sort of thing that they need to look at for

0:35:45Apple watch to like I feel like a basic look and layout of it is fine and that's

0:35:52not absolutely not what's holding it back from being more useful more he was

0:35:56good enough for later in general it's good enough for me that was amazing i

0:36:01was that was you tweeted that right yeah I can't believe I didn't see that that

0:36:06screenshot more i add I hadn't seen that since Apple watch came out so if I

0:36:12output in the show notes I promise but but Renee had to posted a tweet a

0:36:16screenshot from Return of the Jedi wear layers like wrist communicator really

0:36:22does look like an Apple watch

0:36:24I mean not like not like so much that you would suspect that it was

0:36:27photoshopped onto the screen shot but it looks pretty similar

0:36:31yeah amazing so anyway my hope for 2016 Apple watch to which I'm guessing he'll

0:36:37probably come out around the same time as last year's I'm you know route there

0:36:41are rumors already that there's going to be a march event this year and i would

0:36:45not be surprised about the watch to comes out my guess is Apple watch two

0:36:50will look very much like Apple watch one case compatible and that all the

0:36:56improvements will be pretty much from Johnny's Fugees team I think and of

0:37:02course I of course obviously software you know a Apple watch 32 Apple watch

0:37:08os3 to accurately watching us watch us 32 to take advantage of them

0:37:14I agree and I think that the mistake that we often making technology as

0:37:18people say i don't want to buy you out

0:37:19watch again i just bought one last year but apples never targeted year-over-year

0:37:23either happy if you want to upgrade your ass over a year and some script

0:37:26subscription things are doing now that is more geared towards that but

0:37:29traditionally the second version is not many people have the first version but

0:37:32for people who didn't for whatever reason by the first version has a lot of

0:37:35people who don't have apple watches and those are the ones that are gonna gun

0:37:38for with the second right and the criticism from people who bought Apple

0:37:42watch 11 is inevitable and it will be for the sybaris but if you think about

0:37:47it from Apple's perspective and sometimes i think when i when i take the

0:37:51think about it from Apple's perspective angle on an explanation for why they're

0:37:55doing this people get angry but they're still not being logical like what else

0:37:59is Apple to do

0:38:01are they you know the only of the only two options they would have had would

0:38:05have been not to release the watch one last year at all because that there's a

0:38:11new one they knew that the two words coming out in $MONTH 2016 which is true

0:38:17every year

0:38:17yeah with which it if you get locked into that type of thinking they would

0:38:21they would not release anything that would turn into Willy Wonka's chocolate

0:38:24factory that's closed and doesn't release anything which might be good for

0:38:27the privately-held walk a chocolate company but is not good at all for the

0:38:31publicly-held apple can Apple incorporated and then what would be the

0:38:36other thing to do to to not release Apple watch to which they could do this

0:38:41year but just to make apple watch one users happy well that's suicide in the

0:38:46tech tech world you can't just sell an old thing

0:38:49so you don't annoy the people that I mean this is the nits you know I think

0:38:55Steve Jobs said about as well as anybody could not really with it year-over-year

0:38:59upgrade but when the back in $MONTH 2007 when the price dropped of the iphone two

0:39:05or three months after it first came out it was like hey this is this is

0:39:10technology moves fast

0:39:12you know we're going we're trying to make you know make this as fast as

0:39:15possible and sell it at the best price we can as fast as we can and we you know

0:39:19we can't worry about breaking eggs along the way now and for the thing you people

0:39:22do get angry but for me the explaining at least best as we can what Apple is

0:39:26thinking at least less people hate apple intelligently instead of hating him for

0:39:29superficial reactionary reasons they can listen to the explanation understand

0:39:33point of view and then hate them for good reason it does it is and I've heard

0:39:40a lot of people say it you know i mean you know i bought with I you know I

0:39:45bought my stainless-steel Apple watch with my eyes wide open knowing that you

0:39:48know that it's probably gonna be good for a year and i'm an idiot I just throw

0:39:54money home all sorts of apple stuff uh I think the people who are sensible about

0:39:59it and lots and lots of people i heard from said I'm I'm willing to wait a year

0:40:03to get my first Apple watch very sensible very sensible take it will and

0:40:08if that's the type of personality you have you know you know you're going to I

0:40:12think you're going to be very satisfied with that patients or people who are so

0:40:16maybe slightly less patience or maybe had more money willing to throw a people

0:40:20who said i'm going to get one but i'm going to get the sport model because I

0:40:23bet are going to want to get a new one the next year all very brittle some

0:40:27people never want the reveille board and some people always want to be on the

0:40:30ground floor of a new technology and it's different kinds of personalities

0:40:32not everyone's the same and you can sort of pick the one that you want and it's

0:40:36up to you to make an informed rational adult decision now

0:40:39alright one last thing prediction on the Apple watch

0:40:43dude do you agree that it probably could be announced in march yeah i think this

0:40:47year's march event will pretty closely mirror last year's do you think that it

0:40:51will be more like the Apple or the iphone 3g or the 3gs that's interesting

0:41:01because the 3g famously the Apple didn't count as a full version it was a 1 comma

0:41:05product it wasn't the two common product that was a 3gs so it was basically what

0:41:09the iphone was meant to be from an internal at least tracking perspective

0:41:14where I think Apple watch hardware to your point will be somewhere and what

0:41:18they're going to designate it but I think I'm agree with you on that it is

0:41:22going to be more of a rounding out the way watch us to was then another leap

0:41:25forward

0:41:26so which one do you think it's going to be more like I think anymore like the 3g

0:41:32and it will be keeping in mind that Apple often has a conservative version

0:41:35of the product and a very aspirational version of product and they have to

0:41:38figure out which one they can reliably deliver any year i think they absolutely

0:41:41have both ready i but i think based on the Apple watch this year I think will

0:41:45will

0:41:46get more like the 3g version mm I wonder I I was kind of thinking maybe it would

0:41:50be more like a 3gs like maybe more like to compare them more like the original

0:42:00iphone didn't exist that we started with the 3g and we're going to the 3gs in

0:42:07other words it will look at how long was a better version a better comparison

0:42:10oh yeah it's thinner i agree i think it's the universe because the I the

0:42:14iphone 3g got a better radio but not a a better processor and i think the the I

0:42:19Apple watch 2 is going to get the better processor not necessarily the radios all

0:42:23right that's what I'm thinking I'm thinking a better processor and yeah

0:42:26probably not better radios well we'll see i don't know maybe a measure of the

0:42:30two and maybe you're right that the ipad 2 is maybe the better example although

0:42:34the ipad 2 is really largely about making the thing dinner

0:42:38yeah I don't think they don't see I don't think we're going to see that with

0:42:40the watch i don't think we're going to see it thinner version i don't think we

0:42:43need to

0:42:44well I we will eventually and I'm sure what we never need to I mean there's I

0:42:52bet it inevitably they're going to get to a point where we're jony ive's team

0:42:58is going to start pressing the the nada we're going to make it a lot better

0:43:03well they typically make things thinner because they want to make them lighter

0:43:06because later for them is essential to usability but things like the apple TV

0:43:093d touch there are exceptions to that rule for them there's things that they

0:43:13believe are important features or capabilities that they're going to just

0:43:16blow through the the envelopes on that but they have a huge thermal like I I my

0:43:21understanding is that the s-1 runs as hard as it physically can for that

0:43:24enclosure

0:43:25yeah thats i wouldn't be surprised especially given how slow some things

0:43:29are ya that there's just no way so anyway we'll see i'm excited about it

0:43:33was something else that was really cool about the March event and that was sort

0:43:36of the coming out of jeff williams like introduced research kit that was the

0:43:40first time we saw is arguably one of the most powerful people at Apple on the

0:43:44stage right he went from beginning of the year had hadn't he appeared onstage

0:43:50and it was sort of a you know it wasn't a secret i mean is there on the press

0:43:56bios page for apple executives but wasn't really known public

0:43:59buy them by the end of the area been promoted to chief operating officer had

0:44:04been on stage I think he was a WC was definitely the September event and he

0:44:07owns the watch this hero's his was his project

0:44:10yes that is actually true and not well known and you know kind of a a I thought

0:44:21about this thing right about much about it but I thought about it when they made

0:44:24the announcement a week or two ago about the the executive not really changes

0:44:30it's more or less promotions and like you wrote in your piece that I more sort

0:44:35of making official changes that have been made internally for a while like

0:44:38Johnny suruchi stature within the company was SVP level and in terms of it

0:44:44you know the respect that he has and understanding of how important is it

0:44:48just wasn't reflected in this if you do the job before you get the title at

0:44:51apple right and and I was thinking about it with with jeff williams and clearly

0:44:57part of the the gravity of being named CEO of Apple is that in the modern era

0:45:05which again I always say is post next reunification there's only ever been one

0:45:11other coo and that was Tim Cook and we see you know what that meant for him and

0:45:17you know it clearly meant that he was number two and end in line to take over

0:45:22CEO if anything happened to the CEO and I think you know it's hard not to think

0:45:26the same with jeff williams and the other thing too that made me think about

0:45:31it is that it to my knowledge when when Tim Cook was coo he never really had the

0:45:36roll over a new product the way that Jeff Williams did with the watch in

0:45:40particular it was a different like the the iphone was the clear example of the

0:45:46big new product category that Scott Forstall basically on I mean steve jobs

0:45:50and everything but Scott Forstall was the closest to not being steve jobs and

0:45:53owning a product and there's there's no sort of scott forstall been unified now

0:45:58and they do have kevin lynch but he's doing the software i think a brand-new

0:46:03product needs somebody to sort of incubate it and and take care of it as a

0:46:07specific new product before i can get reintegrated into the existing structure

0:46:11and apple that ships iphones and I

0:46:13pads every year yeah and i think that the operational angle on that is and

0:46:19again it's I don't have the numbers off the top of my head but I think I mean

0:46:26the number of iphones they sold in 2007 was maybe just a few million was in the

0:46:34millions yeah I of that first one until yeah you know the one with the metal

0:46:40casing was really really small and millions and I think they got to 10

0:46:44million by the end of $MONTH 2008 which would be a full year of selling the

0:46:49original iphone and in six or seven months of selling the 3g but it was

0:46:54really with subsidies that it took off

0:46:56yeah and its really with the 3g where production really ramped up

0:47:00yeah and for all of our like if we just mentioned it earlier in the show all of

0:47:06the bitching and moaning about the early production delays on the Apple watch in

0:47:11april-may here we are just you know nine months later and we've gone through a

0:47:17Christmas where there were no no supply problems and they've sold way more Apple

0:47:23watches when we don't know exactly what because they're not how many because

0:47:26they're not breaking them out but it's clear that they've sold way more Apple

0:47:30watches in this first year than they did iphones in its first year and it's just

0:47:35they were able to do internationally which the original iphone wasn't it was

0:47:38available in one country and then maybe three or four countries for most of that

0:47:40year

0:47:41yeah that's also very true yeah and it's again and i'm not saying that I don't

0:47:45bring this up to to posit that the Apple watch is on pace to be more popular than

0:47:50the iphone i think it's clearly just because Apple as a company and its

0:47:55products that it it it is you know it's more of a cultural phenomenon and it can

0:47:59make a new product known to people in a way that it couldn't before and they've

0:48:06got really they've brought in their base of people who consider themselves Apple

0:48:10customers and it always the ipod took awhile for the ipod to ramp up till

0:48:15after became available on Windows it took awhile for the iphone grab the ipad

0:48:18ramped up incredibly quickly but then it also slope down fast to and it feels

0:48:22like you know you're on a highway that has a speed limit and regardless of how

0:48:25fast you accelerate

0:48:26still that speed limit so you can have initial burst or you could have a slow

0:48:30acceleration but all the products were to get there in the end I also think

0:48:33that with the ipad which I think sold somewhere between like 10 and 15 million

0:48:39its first year

0:48:41don't quote me on that but i'm pretty sure that you're going right

0:48:45I remember being on a TV show

0:48:49claymores show with people guessing at first year sales and it was like me and

0:48:54andy and adco and yes I think Jason Snell forget who else was on but my

0:48:59guess is that Jason was no on remotely and my guess was way higher than

0:49:04everybody else's and I was still low of what actually turned out but even then I

0:49:09feel like making that original iPad wasn't anywhere near as much of a

0:49:15stretch operationally because they had three years under their belt of making

0:49:19iphones and the technology was fundamentally the same except this was

0:49:22bigger and so it's in some ways that makes it easier

0:49:26whereas with the watch here they are taking these iphone style chips and

0:49:33display technology and etc and making a really really small thing with

0:49:38incredibly tight tolerance for so many of these things physically that it was

0:49:42harder

0:49:43yeah like I ipad rent-a-center even ran what was called iphone OS that time

0:49:48where with watch as they created that separate interface layer rather like the

0:49:51clock faces and for carousel and for some other things right

0:49:57big difference i think is that the idea was also 10 years of phones before the

0:49:59iphone and ten years of tablets before the ipass they sort of knew what the

0:50:02problems were that they wanted to fix we're with the Apple watch they entered

0:50:05the product Carrick category very quickly and there isn't as much evidence

0:50:08that's what they don't have as much information about what that product

0:50:12needs to be there sort of part of the experiment for the first time

0:50:16yeah alright let's take a break i think another sponsor and then we'll go like

0:50:19next up is WWDC right yeah all right well our next sponsor is our good

0:50:25friends at automatic what is automatic is a connected car adapter i call it I

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0:50:50same port and it tells them all this diagnostic information about your car if

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0:50:59your oil changed and it says like go get service a1 or something like that if you

0:51:05have automatic you plug your you plug it into your car it tells you exactly what

0:51:08that means it actually decodes it tells you or if there's like a problem with

0:51:12the car not just like regular service but they say like you know error code f2

0:51:18or something like that

0:51:20automatic and tell you exactly what that means and you'll know whether it's hey

0:51:24this is actually serious or B this is you know this is yeah something's got to

0:51:29get looked at but you can you know finish finish going where you're going

0:51:32and not worry about it really really useful good just totally opened up

0:51:36exactly what's going on with your car and it's kind of remarkable how much

0:51:39modern cars know about what's you know going on system-wide throughout the

0:51:44whole car and it does all sorts of other things to it hooks up to your phone and

0:51:50uses gps and it can give you a log of your trips and parking location it can

0:51:54use the gps while you're driving to sort of rate your fuel economy and your

0:52:01efficiency score you on that and they have a new app store for automatic and

0:52:09you go there and it lets you hook up all sorts of things that you do this by

0:52:12using your phone you just have your phone paired with bluetooth to the

0:52:15automatic in your carp and you can hook up all sorts of cool things like ifttt

0:52:20that if that if this then that and set up all sorts of scenarios where it says

0:52:25if you get within 50 miles of your home you can have it hook up to your nest

0:52:32thermostat and have it you know turn on the heat or in the summer turn on the

0:52:36air conditioning all sorts of bread recipes like that they have lots and

0:52:41lots of apps over 20 apps are in their app store you can go check it out an

0:52:45automatic calm / apps and see the sort of things that are available

0:52:49bottom line this is all really really cool stuff

0:52:53it works on any kind of car any car made after $MONTH 1996 so it's not like you

0:52:58need a certain brand or something like that certain model any card you just

0:53:01plug this thing in it hooks it up even can tell you things like where you

0:53:05parked your car because it has this GPS and it can remember stuff like that

0:53:09how much is it well here's the thing it is super super it's amazingly cheap it's

0:53:15just a hundred dollars ninety-nine dollars 95 cents normally but they have

0:53:19a 20-percent off offer for talks to listeners that's twenty bucks you'll

0:53:24save twenty bucks on this thing get four eighty dollars by going to automatic

0:53:28calm / the talkshow automatic just felt like the dictionary word . com / the

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0:53:43the last thing I'll say 45 day return policy with free shipping so if you buy

0:53:49it you don't feel like this thing's worth 80 bucks you got 45 days send it

0:53:52back to them and no money is out of the wall

0:53:56my thanks to automatic alright WWDC well there was one thing right before WC that

0:54:02was super interesting and that was Johnny I'm getting promoted to chief

0:54:05design officer that Israel new direct reports going right to Tim Cook yeah

0:54:12where's new direct reports that was Alan died yeah and howarth i'm forgetting his

0:54:17first Richard Richard yes and that created this whole is Johnny I've

0:54:23leaving Israel changing again a lot of noise i think over the course of the

0:54:28year don't even really think about it anymore

0:54:31no I don't think so and I get the feeling I don't feel like you know again

0:54:39would it be the biggest shock in the world if he leaves in a couple of years

0:54:44i guess not

0:54:45I mean you never know you know he's obviously a very private person you

0:54:49don't really know you know you know can't if you don't know how could you

0:54:53say and this could be then be seen in hindsight as a you know precursor to

0:54:58that but my guess is no because from what I dunno of them and what you know

0:55:04it's obvious is if if he's obsessive about design where else what else is he

0:55:08going to do like it seems to me like what you would want to do if he could do

0:55:12whatever he wanted to all day every day is run apples design team we saw that in

0:55:17the 60 minute special they showed everything from his little sketch book

0:55:20where he made the the watch designs to the CNC machine spitting out behind them

0:55:24to his glee over the giant glass panels being installed it at the campus to

0:55:29ya-ya the biggest pieces of curved glass ever made

0:55:33that's pretty interesting what a great job yeah and I feel like what the

0:55:38promotion of dye and and hearth really meant was that it frees him up from

0:55:45administrative and bureaucratic responsibilities that there are meetings

0:55:52now that instead of heat attending you know Diane door howarth can attend and

0:55:59just things like four people on the design team like approving vacation

0:56:02schedules or whatever else of the kind of administrative stuff that somebody

0:56:05has to be in charge of it's not him anymore and that yeah and I think it's

0:56:10similar to what we'll talk about with phil schiller later where it removes

0:56:12bottlenecks from the process of Apple as Apple scales

0:56:15yeah i think so and I think it lets him

0:56:19it lets him spend more time on what he's drawn to as opposed to what he you know

0:56:25the the paraphernalia that the miscellaneous stuff they have to do that

0:56:31that's just sort of busy work

0:56:36I don't know for lack of a better term you know there's two universal truths

0:56:39and big business that is everyone wants more management more power and then

0:56:42anyone who has it wants to get rid of it

0:56:44yeah and maybe that's you know exactly what what this was about and I kind of

0:56:47get the feeling that that both died and howarth are very very trusted by I've

0:56:51yeah and so it's it's not theirs

0:56:55I don't think there's any kind of Machiavellian aspect to it where they're

0:56:58angling to take over i feel like you know they're at the stage in their

0:57:02careers where they're looking for more management and authority and I've i

0:57:07really do think it's as simple as that he just wants to spend you know he's

0:57:11only got you know so many hours in the day every day I wants to spend them

0:57:15obsessing over everything you know its design . weather and there's teams are

0:57:21fantastic the the ID team and the hii teams they they said I'm going to people

0:57:25who ever left ID over his jony ive's tenure and those teams know what they're

0:57:29doing

0:57:29yeah well and it's a very small team I mean if and if there is a bottleneck

0:57:34still within the company that might be part of it but i don't know that it's

0:57:37it's you know I think it's clearly one of those mythical man month type things

0:57:41were throwing more people at it is going to make more better design come out i

0:57:45like the in that 60 minute special one of the things I really like scene was

0:57:49that they brought out the 10 prototype iphone sixes

0:57:56yes from every size you know from four inches up to i'm not quite sure what the

0:58:04biggest was probably six but that they had 10 different iphone 6 shapes and I

0:58:12don't know that that I I you know they didn't turn them on so you can see

0:58:16whether they were actually like electronic device you know like working

0:58:19iphones or were they just things that you held in your hand but they had all

0:58:23ten of them they're for for them to display that was pretty cool and it

0:58:28wasn't just about the size but tattoo I've was part of the entire product

0:58:31experience of having

0:58:32device of that size

0:58:36yeah it's you know i-i-i believed it when I said that you know that was the

0:58:41story that they told when they came out with the two you know the 4.7 inch and

0:58:455.5 inch iphone 6 sizes and they said you know we made 1010 versions from

0:58:52every size from 4.0 up to i think 6.0 inches in that these were the two that

0:58:57felt right but i thought was pretty cool that they still have them there and

0:59:01brought them out

0:59:03yep everything else under tarps yeah i like the story it reminded me of the

0:59:11story from The New Yorker which is the profile of of Johnny I've that came this

0:59:15year i guess there was this year right had that

0:59:19ya heard about the watch launch yeah right around and watch launched a truly

0:59:24truly almost book-length New Yorker profile on Johnny I've and that when he

0:59:32was in that does the guy who wrote it was in the design lab one of the tables

0:59:36you know several of the tables had those black shrouds over them and you could

0:59:39see that you know that there is that the outline the shape of whatever it was you

0:59:44could see like the big shape of whatever it is they're recovering but then there

0:59:47was one where it was completely flat it was just a table that was completely

0:59:50flat as though there was nothing on it why was it covered up and then in

0:59:55hindsight it was because that was the table that was going to be the

0:59:55hindsight it was because that was the table that was going to be the

1:00:00the apple watch display table where yes

1:00:03whereas a profile as a three-dimensional shape it's exactly the same as Apple

1:00:07standard tables but it has a glass top that displays the Apple watches

1:00:11underneath

1:00:13yeah they're pretty ingenious thing with a badge is open up the growers

1:00:16underneath the retail staff

1:00:18yeah very true very clever design but i think it's it's fat in it at it to me at

1:00:23em blue it's an emblem of the way that design is truly a first-class practice

1:00:32at Apple that it's exactly the same team that is designing the tables that are in

1:00:38the stores to display the watch as who displayed the watch itself designed that

1:00:45the watch itself and who designed the packaging for the watch right that they

1:00:52want to control the experience the entire way through the product's life

1:00:54basically write the store itself is a is a product the the including you know the

1:01:01lighting that the surface that's used for the floor the dimensions the tables

1:01:08the products themselves our products and the packaging our products and the

1:01:14processes whereby that comes from the table to you in the bag and anything the

1:01:18entire thing is just feeling the engineered yeah and I feel like that's

1:01:21unique at that you know that apple and I don't know that own it don't think it

1:01:26would be very difficult for other companies to to replicate all right June

1:01:31wdc yes i would say the clunker of the bunch what I think that was a three-fold

1:01:41announcement fundamentally iOS 9 mac OS 10.2 11 I was ten 10 points11 el

1:01:50Capitano and Apple music and I think Apple music has got to be considered the

1:01:55conqueror of the bunch

1:01:57yeah it was interesting because the first half it was all the end and I

1:02:01think watch us to I think we saw that for the first time there but that was

1:02:04all very engineering focused and Craig federighi did his talk and I think Kevin

1:02:09Lynch did the watch stuff it was definitely i forget and then he wasn't

1:02:13probably abrupt change in tone when Eddy Cue and then Jimmy Iovine and then Drake

1:02:17came out on stage almost like a separate event that had been somehow stuck

1:02:21together

1:02:23yeah it in its funny to me or interesting because again treating all

1:02:29of these things not as well that they don't get it's easy to say that to try

1:02:34to treat the actual shipping products the things you buy the actual iphone in

1:02:38your hand the actual watch on your wrist as the only things that matter because

1:02:42that's ultimately the most important thing but i find it instructive and it

1:02:47usually pays off to treat everything from the actual like the events to the

1:02:51packaging to the ads to you know to all of it as looking for signs of you know

1:02:58is this is polished incoherent as it could be i think it's interesting again

1:03:03you can't prove the correlation but it's interesting that the announcement event

1:03:07of Apple music at WWDC keynote was sloppy and the actual shipping Apple

1:03:17music when it first came out was sloppy and not only thing we care would like a

1:03:23sort of like a job reference ID i think what i think under steve jobs like he

1:03:28ran that show and almost everything that went on during that show was carefully

1:03:31scrutinize and I think Tim Cook let people run their divisions more than

1:03:35then steve jobs that maybe it's because apple so big now he has to as well and

1:03:40they almost run like little little companies especially iTunes which has

1:03:43its own marketing its own events its own developers that it basically is a phone

1:03:48company and when you see these things I I I don't know how much like to someone

1:03:53like Tim Cook would play the Steve Jobs role of saying no you have to come out

1:03:56and you have to say this and I'm handling this and you're doing this and

1:03:59it is more of a it is more open to each of the of the SVP to do their own thing

1:04:04and at the same time some people just love the traditional steve jobs keynote

1:04:08it's super polished there's some jokes but it's it's super on . it's it's clear

1:04:12it's concise and then Craig federighi gets last for making jokes the next year

1:04:16we get more jokes and then you know that they start talking about Eddie doing

1:04:20karaoke and suddenly areas where a you know he's doing a little bit of dancing

1:04:23and I think that they're trying to feel their way

1:04:26to being a kind ler friend kinder friendlier presentation but they don't

1:04:30know where that line is yet

1:04:32yeah and I feel like that that keynote in particular I think without question

1:04:37this year's WWDC keynote was the worst event Apple the worst keynote you know

1:04:44not just call it an official cannot i would say keynote to include you know

1:04:49product and introductions like September's at you no iPhone

1:04:52introduction

1:04:54it's the worst keynote that they've had since since Steve . or baby the worst

1:04:59one I ever had you know in the modern era because none of the ones with Steve

1:05:03were bad you feel that the whole way through or just because of the Apple

1:05:08music segment i would say just because of the Apple music segment but the fact

1:05:12that it ran so long even if the Apple music segment had been coherent and

1:05:16well-thought-out I think the fact that they blew so far past two hours was a

1:05:20problem and and I say this not just for the petty reason that i really had to go

1:05:28to the bathroom by the end of it and I was in the audience and just the fact

1:05:33that you did you know it's a long time to just sit

1:05:36I think like that the unofficial rule that they should be two hours at the

1:05:40most is good and I think it always pays out plays out when you see other

1:05:45companies that have long events that go too long people it when it ends you

1:05:49don't want the media who are giving every most people out in the world their

1:05:54their impression of it comes not firsthand because there's only you know

1:05:57even a big place like wwc there's only four thousand seats and most of them are

1:06:01you know conference attendees it you don't want the first impression to be

1:06:07from media people saying that was too long but the other thing that usually

1:06:12can see from other companies and that with steve jobs there you never never

1:06:17happen is you see the internal politics playing out on stage in the fighting

1:06:22over you know that stage time is is political capital within the company and

1:06:28whether it's good for the company or not that x number of people come out and get

1:06:33X number of minutes for their thing they're all fighting for it because

1:06:37they're fighting for their personal stature

1:06:39or they're fighting for their products stature within the company as opposed to

1:06:45what is the best thing for the company as a whole you know and i think apple

1:06:49has you know this year as well as any other year there there are with Apple

1:06:54there are always products that in and of themselves might be worth time in a

1:07:01product introduction or keynote if there's a keynote coming up but get cut

1:07:06because there are so many other other things that are more worth it for them

1:07:12if they're only going to go for 90 minutes

1:07:15yeah absolutely i believe stuff was cut from this keynote my understanding is

1:07:18they wanted to get it down to two hours but especially the Apple music segment

1:07:21it it didn't even sound like a stay on script which is something else that you

1:07:25don't you don't see in previous keynotes yeah yeah like and you know like Drake's

1:07:31like inexplicable like what to help you know what was that I could just remember

1:07:36going back to my notes and it was like my notes are like drake and then it's

1:07:41like nothing and some people who aren't us who were very young and very hip love

1:07:46the drake was onstage but I i think when you look at it overall in terms of an

1:07:50apple event it it doesn't become part of the case of all right usually in a good

1:07:54one

1:07:54it's it doesn't matter whether the person if it's very state of it some

1:07:58kind of famous celebrity or something like that there still is a there's you

1:08:02can see whether you agree with it or not whether it worked for you personally you

1:08:06can understand what the point was that that person was supposed to get across

1:08:10if you could cut it and it doesn't affect the event you should cut it it

1:08:13means likewise like Tim Cook segue into baseball which was interesting but like

1:08:17you could have cut that entire were going to give them all iphone stuff and

1:08:20ipad stuff out of the keynote it would not have changed the event at all

1:08:24yeah but I can see why they put that in though it was it was a way of

1:08:28emphasizing with third-party prove that the the anecdote was that a

1:08:35forget what team it was it was the Royals or who but somebody a major

1:08:38league baseball had hit like a a career like 303 or home run and it landed in

1:08:46their own teams bullpen where the relief pitchers warm-up over the homerun fence

1:08:52so the relief pitchers on the team were in possession of this ball which the

1:08:56player obviously wanted to have so they the the relief pitchers put together a

1:08:59list of here's what we want you to buy us and we'll give you the ball and like

1:09:03everything everything on the list

1:09:05yes was an apple product and a 50-50 get one barrel of lube and yeah it was great

1:09:13but a tattoo and almost two-and-a-half our keynote I think again you start

1:09:17cutting anything you can

1:09:18well they showed it but they also photoshopped out the 50 gallon bloom

1:09:24which I understand why they did because you know i i'd understand that they kind

1:09:31of want to keep these things g-rated if not PG and in the 50 gallon Valley blue

1:09:40maybe makes it a little bit more BGC 13 but God was that funny like they kind of

1:09:46took out the funniest part i agree i dunno i know you're talking about that

1:09:49if it's already going over two hours even that you take out what did you know

1:09:53how much do they need to brag about that

1:09:55yeah I found it worrisome now I do I honestly feel like I kind of feel like

1:10:02the most worrisome thing as an apple watcher of the year was not any any

1:10:06product in particular but the WWDC keynote as a whole just and that

1:10:12anything only Tim Cook can can take control of it and unless he wants to

1:10:15take control of that I don't think we'll see that change like its it was one of

1:10:22the unique things about Steve Jobs and it wasn't the most important thing it

1:10:25was just the most the thing that we on the outside got to see was that he had

1:10:29an innate and uncanny talent as a showman that he was a good gig he those

1:10:37key notes were all entirely in his head and of course they've always been broken

1:10:42up into segments because that's how you do it but that he had this ability like

1:10:46from you know

1:10:47c2 watching you know Phil Schiller come out and do the introduction for the new

1:10:53macbook or powerbook or whatever was going back in time and then this and

1:10:58that he could just closed his eyes and just see how this whole thing would play

1:11:02out and feel as a 90-minute show and could figure out things like you know

1:11:09what let's not introduce this at the end as one more thing

1:11:15let's move it up front and blow people away right out of the gate you know and

1:11:21could just see how that would play you know in New which you know i think you

1:11:25know it out some of its arbitrary and you can quibble with it but that he you

1:11:28know like a film director could just sort of feel how you know whether these

1:11:34scenes are good in and of themselves what are they combined to as a whole is

1:11:37a show and there was 10 and combine the showmanship with the absolute

1:11:43unquestioned authority of I don't care who you are i don't care if you're you

1:11:48know senior vice president of whatever this thing that you want to get you know

1:11:52that we we've been rehearsing for two weeks and you you know want that stage

1:11:57time to do if i decide the night before the keynote that whole thing is cut

1:12:01because it just doesn't play right that's it you know there's Intel you

1:12:05know tough lock and I kind of feel like I kind of just feel like that whole

1:12:10Apple I don't know I just feel like that whole Apple music intro was that nobody

1:12:17was there with the authority to say you know what Eddie this just isn't this

1:12:21isn't ready

1:12:21there's very few things that a lot of people say this wouldn't happen if steve

1:12:25jobs around and usually that they haven't they have no idea what Steve

1:12:28Jobs would have decided any moment or not but this one of those few things

1:12:30where you can look back at the long history of Apple keynotes and see that

1:12:33he had a rhythm and a paste and a delivery and a concept for these things

1:12:37that you know was just beyond anyone else in the industry and we're not we're

1:12:41not getting that anymore

1:12:43yeah yeah I really uh I've hesitate to ever pull that play that card but i

1:12:49would say that that keynote and the Apple music music segment in particular

1:12:54that's one of the few where I would say that wouldn't happen if she was still

1:12:56around

1:12:57it was one of its one of the few things where you can do it because he was there

1:13:00was no one in two

1:13:01mediating steve jobs in you he was on stage and he was talking to the audience

1:13:04it was incredibly direct so it's not behind the scenes and who was in charge

1:13:08of this and who did that it was Steve Jobs talking to us and I think that's an

1:13:12easy thing to talk about right and I've heard it from you know you know people

1:13:17who work at Apple you know that that Steve was the guy you know that he

1:13:23didn't just show up and it wasn't somebody else organizing the show he

1:13:26really wasn't putting the show together and I've also heard it from you know

1:13:30like people who worked at third party companies but who were getting you

1:13:34nowhere invited by Apple to you know come on stage as you know you you know

1:13:40you might and it's funny they always it's always exactly the same which is

1:13:44that they get invited to come out that go into sequester like you're pretty

1:13:48much like locked into like a a very nice prison and you rehearse and rehearse and

1:13:54rehearse and you have no idea whether you're actually going to be in the

1:13:57keynote until you know like the night before and even and you you know it

1:14:02might be you're in you're out and their events team is absolutely spectacular

1:14:07and they do a fantastic job but they they don't control who's up onstage for

1:14:10how long are saying what that's become the executive in charge of that thing

1:14:14it's no longer to steve jobs right and I do kind of feel bottom line is that it's

1:14:19sort of effectively a committee now and it might be a small committee you know

1:14:24Schiller Eddy Cue surely tim cook you know I think I wouldn't underestimate

1:14:30even though he's not on stage personally I wouldn't underestimate jony ive's

1:14:33influence on these things and then on the events you know the fact that he

1:14:38does his and pre-recorded films is doesn't make him less involved i think

1:14:44in the structure of the event and even those videos used to have faces and in

1:14:49these two have several people like can reach out sometimes appear in them

1:14:52definitely Bob Mansfield in previous years and this year was just voiceover

1:14:56yeah it was just Johnny I've yeah more cinematic less less documentary style

1:15:01and more i don't know like product like more advertising style and your point

1:15:10about Apple music being sloppy product the thing to me is when they made that

1:15:13announcement in genuine genuine said one

1:15:15single thought around music and you start thinking about that from an

1:15:18interface perspective and how many masters that has to that has to save all

1:15:22like have to serve all the traditional people like Jim downloadable have 40,000

1:15:26songs on their hard drive has to serve at people who only want to stream music

1:15:29they had a social network built into their so it has to be accessible and you

1:15:33put that in a separate app no one is ever going to open it by itself and it

1:15:37creates almost an impossible problem to be solved

1:15:40can I tell you a funny story about jr. yeah I find absolutely this is

1:15:45absolutely positively unverifiable because this is like the fourth hand

1:15:50maybe like a fourth hand story but in terms of the gist of the story is that

1:15:56Jimmy vine is it from people who've had to deal with him within Apple is I

1:16:04rolling and that at one point when they were talking about what to do with Apple

1:16:09music he had tossed out in a meeting the idea that what if we just what if we get

1:16:15rid of apps and when you just turn on your iPhone there's your music okay for

1:16:26like wouldn't it just be that just be like what the ipod was and he was like

1:16:31no no it's still your phone and your on that you know you have the internet but

1:16:34you have to worry about apps you just turn on your phone and there's your

1:16:38music screaming Taylor Swift of anything on your phone

1:16:42I don't know if that's true or not I did not hear that from anybody at apple i

1:16:46heard that from somebody who worked up a long time ago and still has friends at

1:16:50apple with that means the kind of stories where you know someone whose job

1:16:54it is isn't to implement like isn't implement things on it on the atom with

1:16:57a bit or the pixel level will just throw those kinds of things out

1:17:00turn on your phone and there's your music . year

1:17:07what was the event that Jimmy ovine came out and it was was that the that the WBC

1:17:15keynote

1:17:16yeah well he definitely not doing the WBC keynote and and where he said

1:17:21something that seemed like a reference what was it was like a reference back to

1:17:25like a classic apple moment and people applauded but he didn't get it

1:17:28and he got confused and like turned around and looked at the slide

1:17:32I don't call oh I forget I forget the exact details of it but it was like it

1:17:39probably wasn't one more thing but I can imagine that he was like if he had said

1:17:44one more thing and everybody like kind of clapton applauded and he didn't even

1:17:48get that was something that people who followed apple for a long time would get

1:17:52and so he thought maybe something had gone wrong with the slides and something

1:17:56a glitch was on the slide behind them and that's why people were laughing to

1:18:00him and explicable and so he got like he paused and like turned around and looked

1:18:04at to slide but slide was right and then that only served to discombobulate them

1:18:09even further because now he now we had no idea why people were laughing and it

1:18:13was very very awkward it's always been hard to acculturate people into apple

1:18:18it's especially hard when you're getting this many new people but when these ppl

1:18:20community executive levels it's almost impossible so you have someone who's

1:18:23used to working in LA and with Hollywood and with recording studios and you get

1:18:27them in a meeting with people who've been making your shiny boxes all their

1:18:31lives it is it's going to be a clash it's from the outside it seems like

1:18:37maybe Angela arms is doing well though I think something this weekend 60 minutes

1:18:42was also a bit of her coming out and I always thought I think we talked about

1:18:44last year that she because she was so vocal in her previous gig that she would

1:18:49be more of a spokesperson for apple and she would talk about retail more but

1:18:53apparently she's been hard at work behind the scenes just melting the

1:18:56online and retail operations and and getting the new store concepts going

1:19:01it sounds like it was funny because a couple weeks ago people someone wrote an

1:19:04article saying where's Angela is why she disappeared and yet people campus like

1:19:08what we see here all the time I understand the article I kind of feel

1:19:14like people there's you know and again I think it fits in with a year in review

1:19:20and talk about these events that that this year there were more women on stage

1:19:26from Apple well I during these events then ever before and that

1:19:35good thing and I don't think it is purely happenstance I think that it's

1:19:40something they're aware of internally I i asked for sure about it onstage on the

1:19:45talk show after WBC absolutely you know they're aware of it but you know it's it

1:19:52has to be it's not like we're going to find a woman to do this it's there have

1:19:55to be the real problem is that wasn't that they didn't put women on stage it

1:20:00said they didn't have women in positions where it was their products doing it

1:20:05right and not so not to make excuses for what Apple is an older company and older

1:20:09companies that they've had established people like fillers been there for a

1:20:12long time Eddie q10 call these people have been there for decades and they are

1:20:16amongst the best in the world when you start up they would have a much

1:20:18different demographic starting out the gate then Applewood right they don't

1:20:23it's not like they hire show people to to present these things on stage at

1:20:28their event the the products and services whatever there is that they're

1:20:31announcing are being presented by the people who are in charge of them and you

1:20:36know the best move Shepherd them through to existence and so the fact that

1:20:40historically women have been under represented on stage at Apple events

1:20:46isn't up doesn't mean that Apple it has a problem picking who gets to go on

1:20:50stage in the event the the problem is that they don't have enough women in

1:20:54positions of authority running teams within the company

1:20:59yeah we're cool with active team specialist right who would therefore be

1:21:02the person to come on stage and do it you know and obviously that's changing

1:21:08uh with Apple pay

1:21:09who's that name escapes me at the moment I'm blanking lie to ya that Apple pay

1:21:14and apple news

1:21:15yes both were represented by women etc so ever for the people who are saying

1:21:21where's Angela Ahrendts whether or not going to bring Angela Ahrendts onstage

1:21:24to talk about a new macbook or something like that it's not just well there's a

1:21:28woman on the SVP leadership team

1:21:32therefore they should have her come out and do something it's only going to make

1:21:35sense for her to come on stage when it it there's some kind of retail news that

1:21:41they want to talk about and I think that's inevitable

1:21:44I at some point there's going to be something that you know how

1:21:47and with retail that they're going to want to talk about at one of the events

1:21:51and of course it's going to be her to talk about it

1:21:53yeah retailer fashion and those are the things that Tim Cook used to speak about

1:21:57and unfortunately cut those at the same time the about Angela errands on because

1:22:00tim cook doesn't spend time on stage talking about them anymore either

1:22:03yeah well I don't know about fashion because fashion it would be too i guess

1:22:08i could imagine maybe with the watch that there would be something to do with

1:22:12the watch as a product that its relation to the fashion industry would make sense

1:22:16to have Angela Ahrendts be the person to do it because it's also I think

1:22:20inextricably tied to retail where it's not just apples retail but retail in

1:22:25general and the partnerships that they have with a fashion related retailers

1:22:32that aren't the apple store and it's you and I know because we have a lot of

1:22:38mutual friends that but there are phenomenally talented women engineers at

1:22:41apple and women program managers and designers and developers and did those

1:22:46people don't just don't get to talk

1:22:48that's right whether you know at any male female doesn't matter that's just

1:22:54not the apple doesn't run those type of keynotes were dozens of you know

1:22:57mid-level and get an occasional chris lattner I think that was a huge

1:23:02exception to I don't think anyone like chris lattner never spoken a a keynote

1:23:05be forever as opposed to the the afternoon state of the union

1:23:09yeah which is you know where he's been as spoken before where you would expect

1:23:13it and this year we had the phenomenal woman in charge of clock faces get a

1:23:16tremendous talk at the State of the Union this year and I remember that that

1:23:20was great

1:23:21anyway I did think I did think on 60 minutes I've seen Angela Ahrendts speak

1:23:25before especially know what after when you know when she first got hired

1:23:28announce it and i was researching into it but her stint on the 60 Minutes

1:23:34segment did reiterate you know the boys a remarkably cogent and and thoughtful

1:23:41person ya know and i agree but i do think that it's great that Apple's doing

1:23:45this and it's similar to when Tim Cook came out he said because you know it was

1:23:48just up to me I wouldn't because I'm a private person but it's important to be

1:23:52a role model and I think it's important to have diverse people up on stage and

1:23:55super successful positions and successful companies like Apple to be

1:23:58those those role models and

1:24:00you have to give them opportunity Craig federighi wasn't great his first WC but

1:24:05he's terrific now and jeff williams two events in much better presenter and if

1:24:09you give these opportunities they could be just as phenomenal and it's a super

1:24:13deep bench like you have no great jobs back also phenomenal who didn't get any

1:24:16time I don't think it all on stage this year but you also have you know the

1:24:20woman in charge of of iphone marketing is phenomenal and then there will be

1:24:23opportunities when they get stage time and I'll just make I think the company

1:24:27better for everybody know what else about at WWDC anything else Swift too .

1:24:36oh and I think that's where they announced that was going to open source

1:24:38on that is true it is one answer would go open source by the end of the year

1:24:43and they they did hit that I don't have much to say about that mean I think I

1:24:49kind of covered that last week with yeah a little bit yeah

1:24:53battery talk about stacking the guests deck I don't think we did that we need

1:24:58to cover $OPERAND square Swift on this episode it's just suffice it to say it

1:25:02was pretty big deal and it seems different going very very well yeah

1:25:06content blockers ended up being another thing that enormous amounts of angst and

1:25:11anxiety and stress was built over and again at the end of the year we're

1:25:14hardly mentioning them

1:25:16yeah and doesn't seem you know yeah it doesn't seem to have really changed

1:25:21anything significant I think it's great I I certainly I I enjoy running them and

1:25:28I do think that they make for a noticeable improvement but i don't think

1:25:31that they've bankrupted any more or are even on pace to bankrupt any media

1:25:36properties and kind of sad about sex i thought that was one of because the

1:25:40industry is just it's horrible in transition and that was one of the few

1:25:42things that could scare it out of its complacency and I don't think it's not

1:25:45good enough job scaring them to their autumn dollars yet

1:25:48yeah I feel like there was more talk about that when they were when it was

1:25:53first come out and and you're actually break before they came out really when

1:25:58people thought you know good god you know a week from now seventy percent of

1:26:02our mobile is going to disappear yes but in hindsight you know you know

1:26:09didn't get there to wear that the appstore charts were dominated by yeah

1:26:14content blockers and then not so much

1:26:19yeah I'm hopefully actually little spike again

1:26:28so what about the summer anything over the summer I don't think so

1:26:32there was some interesting stuff like that out of nowhere and ipod touch 6

1:26:34likely campus modern ipod touch

1:26:38oh that is true that was like July right yeah the middle of July didn't really do

1:26:45mean it was exact same design it did have a modern and a7 processor so it is

1:26:5064-bit and that was about all that came with it there's a new ipod colors as

1:26:54well but the ipod line didn't change at all no do you think that the you think

1:27:02that this might be it for the ipod touch i think it's going i think the pressure

1:27:07from the iphones being more and more available and affordable and the ipod

1:27:10mini ipad mini being as popular as it is kind of squeezes out the ipod touch in

1:27:14many ways it's still the cheapest absolute cheapest way to get to the app

1:27:18store but i think the app store now is a proven value and people are willing to

1:27:21pay a little more to get into in order to get more functionality from it i was

1:27:26surprised by I think I've seen this from a few other places too but like like

1:27:34when I think it was united or one of these airlines was like we're gonna buy

1:27:3710,000 iphones and give them to all of our gate agents and flight attendants

1:27:42and etc that they weren't ipod touches that it seems to me like it would make

1:27:48more sense for that to be an ipod touch lower price you know let's presume that

1:27:52there's some kind of workable you know Wi-Fi in the airport that they can use

1:27:57that they wouldn't need to be a full why would you spend the extra money hundreds

1:28:02of extra dollars per unit for the phone when it doesn't really make sense for

1:28:06them to be fun if they're just using him for that but that's what they're using

1:28:09the phone and it's probably a greater dynamic where you have sort of existing

1:28:13carrier relationships with enterprise you know companies and their buying them

1:28:17in the thousands and you know people are still wondering why they're 16 gigabyte

1:28:21iphone so that's one of the big reasons isn't

1:28:23additional buyers say that it's almost like those they just moved from

1:28:26blackberry to iphone reward to something else

1:28:29mm but it wasn't a don't know to me it was sort of like web portals all they do

1:28:37is access web portals or business to be a b2b app so that they need almost

1:28:40nothing but a web connection now we're just it's just her name just popped into

1:28:46my head

1:28:46jennifer bailey yes it was killing me

1:28:50jennifer bailey is the Apple executive who runs Apple pay under any Q yeah

1:28:55everything else in this town called much other stuff i think yeah she was the one

1:29:00about age at least now i think that there was a minor stuff like Apple

1:29:04killed 121 but very little else happen until the monstrous event in September

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1:32:22alright September yeah

1:32:25boy I had this actually maybe we should have started with this because it's it

1:32:30was a bigger well the only did one fall event this year they put everything into

1:32:34it

1:32:34yeah i-i-i in hindsight you know I feel like that's probably smart and I feel

1:32:42like the other thing too is to go circle back to what I said about WBC I feel

1:32:47like they clarified the messaging and the coherency of the event significantly

1:32:55I i can't help but suspect that internally they they recognize that the

1:33:00WWDC keynote was not up to their own standards and the September event might

1:33:07have been even extra sharp because of it

1:33:10yeah it was for everything that they covered and they it was so big they

1:33:13didn't have time to cover OS 10 or the mac be managed to get it done in i think

1:33:17for well-put-together segments and I mean and you know it's if we're going to

1:33:22look back at the year I mean you know it's easily the biggest mistake i

1:33:28published on daring fireball was the night before the event predicting that

1:33:31there's no way they're going to have only one event for the for the fall

1:33:35well they had it again before he'd been iphone and ipod or something else in

1:33:40September and then mac and ipad in October ya thang two years or three

1:33:45years before that but this year they had no no new mac that the 4k imac but they

1:33:51sort of showed that already with the Firecat 5k I'm a clear before I well I

1:33:56think if they want to do that could have I think the easiest way that they could

1:33:58have done it would be to hold the ipad pro for october and it have a separate

1:34:03event just for the ipad pro and then fill out the event demo el Capitano on

1:34:08and boom there you go there's a little smaller event october and it wasn't

1:34:12ready to ship anyway so it wouldn't have even delayed the shipping of the ipad

1:34:15pro okay we wanted to get El Cap out earlier this year I think it was shipped

1:34:19on September 30th which would have pulled it out of that event

1:34:22yeah but it wouldn't it would have been fine if they would in held el capitan it

1:34:26wouldn't have you know if they wanted to I think it's just that they didn't want

1:34:29to but there you know it wasn't just my argument that i don't think they're

1:34:32going to have just one event wasn't just that they have

1:34:34have had two events for years it was that if they only have one event there's

1:34:38no way they're going to cover all this stuff again and some of these things are

1:34:41gonna have to be cut and so I was right about that that that some of these

1:34:45things have to be cut and they would go through the fall without even even read

1:34:49em allowing the tentpole features of el capitan onstage I was just wrong that

1:34:54they would might be willing to do that but I had a real estate in the sidebar

1:34:59of the email and the slide mistake right that this is how little time l cap got

1:35:06on that event that when they announced the shipping date it was a screenshot of

1:35:10I think it was the for the ipad pro right yeah it was the mail app and if i

1:35:15see myself from feeling like Phil yeah like philly I was like an email from

1:35:19phil schiller dat to federal years somebody saying like yeah I'll cap ship

1:35:25date will be September 30th top secret don't tell anyone and it was just in the

1:35:30screenshot the mail climate and then very quickly got to get that up on

1:35:36apple.com otherwise would have been pandemonium with everyone calling to see

1:35:39if that was serious or not

1:35:40all right was it a joker was it not we SAT together for that one right

1:35:45we have me and you and Clayton Morris right yes I sundari I remember when that

1:35:51came up and we like like we're whispering with each other like was that

1:35:55real dicey that do you think that's different that's what they mean

1:35:57yeah it was I mean it started off with jeff williams in the watch and it it's

1:36:02interesting because they showed off new watch bands that you know Johnny I've

1:36:05had shown off i think enough at a Paris Show Fashion Show earlier in the year

1:36:09and then they announced Apple watch her mez as I guess the the first real

1:36:14example of Apple partnering with a fashion shop now you know outside of

1:36:18their own which is super interesting to me

1:36:20yeah i think so too it makes me wonder wonder about you know future things like

1:36:27the car and stuff like that and you will there be and you know again wouldn't it

1:36:32would be interesting

1:36:33even if it wasn't like to partner with an existing car company but again like

1:36:37maybe to partner with Hermes and I have like a car come out with her mez design

1:36:42interior or something like that

1:36:45yeah i mean again they're going to want to have products that are introductory

1:36:48they get people in the door they're going to have the the product that most

1:36:50people end up buying which is usually the middle-of-the-road product they're

1:36:53going to want to have premium products people who want the absolute best and

1:36:56when you get to things like cars and watches with the absolute best

1:36:59it isn't just about speeds and feeds when that the internet I wondered

1:37:03adjusted this is never really occurred to me before but in the way that they

1:37:07for things like the car they have to be thinking in the scope of a decade right

1:37:13that this thing got started at least three four five years ago maybe even

1:37:17more and is probably at least three four five years away from coming to market

1:37:24that this is something that they've had to think in a decade-long window for and

1:37:33in terms of what you and I talked about you know earlier in the show about what

1:37:37was the point of the gold apple watch edition models and going through all

1:37:43this and selling these things that these high prices for something that was going

1:37:47to sell in such low quantities

1:37:49I wonder if part of it isn't getting you know rehearsing sort of going through

1:37:56the bifurcated levels of product based on significantly different orders of

1:38:03magnitude different prices and partnering with companies and and

1:38:09creating truly luxurious materials using truly luxurious materials to separate

1:38:17these segments not so much for the watch itself but for the eventual car because

1:38:23in car that's it's going to be significantly more money and way more

1:38:27important that there are maybe maybe who knows maybe the car will come out and

1:38:32there's one model and it's you know $25,000 and that's it but somehow I

1:38:36don't think so

1:38:37no absolutely and that's why I think segmentation again was so important for

1:38:40Apple this year because as you get into as you become a certain size your your

1:38:45growth becomes limited you have to start segmenting and as you get into other

1:38:49product lines you can't just assume that they work the same way that your

1:38:52existing product lines do apples been very candid about avoiding the pitfalls

1:38:55that I've had a lot of other technology companies and

1:38:58part of the reason is that they sort of think through these things they pick

1:39:01something they focus on it and the experiment in in a myriad of different

1:39:05ways including a lot of prototyping but also a lot of things like maybe like

1:39:09doing Apple watch her master edition or things like that so that when they get

1:39:12into things like watches and things like cars they're not presenting on the way

1:39:16they present you an ipod shuffle they're presenting within the context of that

1:39:19product

1:39:20yeah i did think I do think it was interesting to that by September you

1:39:27just mentioned you mentioned is a minute or two ago that just it was a year after

1:39:34Apple watch wasn't initially unveiled but it was really just made in july

1:39:42august five months after actually hit market where they had all new bands and

1:39:47straps and and didn't just add new bands and straps but actually replace some of

1:39:51the earlier colors that some of the pastels colored sport bands with to my

1:39:58eyes up a much more attractive overall lineup of colors and watch us to Egypt

1:40:04five months after watch os1 which is very fast Union apples usual product

1:40:09rollouts yeah I i I'm I'm more intrigued by the hardware differences in the bands

1:40:18then then the OS because I kind of feel like watching us to calling it a

1:40:23two-point Oh was it is a little marketing II you know it's really sort

1:40:29of it was to me closer to here's the watch is we really wanted to ship

1:40:33originally absolutely it was around it filled in all the little gaps that we're

1:40:36obviously missing from the first one right and there's a big difference

1:40:39obviously with the native apps you know third-party native apps being able to

1:40:42run right on a watch as opposed to just being projected on the watch from your

1:40:46phone like like the original watchkit apps but other than that it's really

1:40:52hard to . anything and watch us to point out that was really a two-point future

1:40:57yeah it's interesting that it was decoupling they've sort of the couple

1:41:01that they didn't you didn't have to wait for a new watch to get watch osu . they

1:41:04were going to use that sort of marketing lingo with mid mid cycle almost yeah it

1:41:10just shows that the walk is a very rare

1:41:12feeding the watch is a very different sort of product and they have the phones

1:41:14previously yeah I almost feel like again part of it is that they've gone through

1:41:19the iphone to iphone 3g transition within the first year as opposed to

1:41:25waiting an entire year for it

1:41:26yeah um what was the other 200 and and the fact that so many I mean it's not

1:41:33even you don't even have to conjecture it's not like speculation or rumor that

1:41:38some of the features a lot of the features and i watch os/2 were

1:41:41originally meant for watching us one because they showed them a year ago you

1:41:47know it the original watch event things like like the additional watch faces

1:41:52like the hay pick-your-own choose your own photo from your photo library and

1:41:57have that as your watch face they showed that in 2014 and it wasn't there when it

1:42:01shipped and in 2015 and some of the faces had the time-travel already in

1:42:06them you think all the stuff that we saw it was just logical completions of the

1:42:10things that have been set up the first version right

1:42:12it almost you know that the fact that time travel wasn't there originally

1:42:15almost it defeated the existence of the the crown

1:42:21yes that the crown was meant to be there for that sort of you know here we want

1:42:25to see where you're going to be later in the afternoon just look at your watch

1:42:28and spin-spin the crown and the earlier . me just you they were not capable of

1:42:33getting it ready in that . should have waited until September to release that

1:42:36no it was nice to get out early and they can add those things that are going

1:42:40yeah and the other thing that I i want to talk about on that is the the rumors

1:42:47and I don't doubt them but that optimistically they had hoped to ship

1:42:50the watch a year ago you know by the end of $MONTH 2014 and you know maybe you

1:42:58just need to have a goal like that to get it so that it does ship in early

1:43:01$MONTH 2015 but I feel like for these new products where they have these you

1:43:07know we just compare the pencil which is a less of it at least at this point you

1:43:13know clearly not as big a deal as the watch but the fact that here we are

1:43:16going into the holidays and somebody who at December 14th was like who I know I I

1:43:21want to get one more present for my significant other

1:43:23get an apple pencil I couldn't do it in time but with the watch you could

1:43:28because the watch got those kinks out of the operational in the manufacturing

1:43:34system in the first half of the year rather than unveiling in the in the

1:43:40fourth quarter

1:43:41absolutely so it's worse for Apple because they lose the sales on those

1:43:44keyboards and on those pencils that just aren't in aren't on the shelves

1:43:48yeah you can't I that's I I'd I just feel like that's so much easier to sell

1:43:55well what the hell I'll just get the pencil and the the expensive smart

1:43:59keyboard while I'm buying this 11 hundred dollar ipad then later on

1:44:03there's no doubt in my mind that they if they had full availability on those they

1:44:07would have sold more of them than they will because some number of people who

1:44:12did buy the ipad pro and when they bought it wanted to buy the pencil maybe

1:44:16we'll never get back around to buying even when we've all heard stories about

1:44:20the original I like the you know the Golden Path on the original iphone the

1:44:24Steve Jobs demonstrated in 2007 how you had to stick to it with the entire thing

1:44:27was just collapsed on stage I getting those first products that is extremely

1:44:31hard and you who knows what the internal dates are for these things but they get

1:44:34the medicine as they can

1:44:37it was like you had to live something to the effect of like he had the demo

1:44:41safari and load the New York Times webpage first and then go to mail and if

1:44:45he had gone to mail first and then tried to load safari like it would have been

1:44:48enough ram and it wouldn't ya for web page wouldn't load it or something like

1:44:52you know to that effect you had to do everyone else thinks enter an order and

1:44:57a lot of stuff comes in hot now and whether that's because they're doing too

1:45:00much more because they're on certain schedules it's hard to say but they do

1:45:04run absolutely as fast as they can get the stuff that what else was in

1:45:11September so there is apple TV 2 apple TV yeah ipad pro the pencil happen if he

1:45:15was really strange for me because the apple TV they they haven't shipped one

1:45:19previously since 2000-2012 March 2012 and they'd worked on a bunch of

1:45:24different it worked on set-top boxes on like recording boss I think just the

1:45:27whole different the strategy for that Apple TV just kept changing and maybe

1:45:31just didn't ship anything and finally they sort of settled on this box which

1:45:34is all i ever wanted from them which is a better apple TV

1:45:37that ran apps but because it took him so long to settle on it that product

1:45:40hostile game and hot and didn't have things like you know series for Apple

1:45:43music didn't have finished version of the apps on it didn't even get the

1:45:46podcast app out so that to me was like almost like a very strange maybe the

1:45:52strain just released for apple in a long time

1:45:54yeah especially given all of the tomb I'd you know me at least it's a really

1:46:00strong rumors that it was heading into the WTC that it was going to be

1:46:04announced then and of course you know we just said how long WWDC was yeah you

1:46:09know there wasn't room for it but if there was any sort of thought in

1:46:12anybody's head that well maybe Apple TV just got cut from WWDC just because of

1:46:17time I i think the fact that it was hard for them to get it out by the end of

1:46:22$MONTH 2015 as it was shows that no it just wasn't ready at the time and again

1:46:26spectacular team super smart people working on it but i don't think a clear

1:46:30product direction was that for it early enough in the development cycle

1:46:34yeah i'm liking mine a lot i really like it

1:46:40I i like my old apple TV and most of the time on that i'm watching TV is spent

1:46:44using apple TV you know like advice but I find that you know as it settles in

1:46:51and now it it doesn't feel like the new apple TV 2 me anymore it feels just like

1:46:56this is apple TV i really like it a lot

1:46:59I feel like there's still some fine-tuning to be done on the touchpad

1:47:03sensitivity but it's you know I like it a lot i really really do and I got the

1:47:13cable cord several years ago and it's the only thing that's connected to my TV

1:47:16now and i watched it almost all day every day and my favorite thing about it

1:47:20is that a lot of it can be updated server-side select the TV app shifted it

1:47:24really wasn't finished didn't do everything that the original TV update

1:47:27but over time you can see it like they used to not use to sort the order of the

1:47:32shows based on what you purchased even if it was an old show that would never

1:47:35be updated it would sit on top and you episodes are coming into other shows you

1:47:39wouldn't be able to find them and now they fixed all that so kind of sorts

1:47:42based on recent episodes and they've added the series for Apple music and

1:47:46they're they're fixing a lot of it as it goes and it probably had its the best

1:47:50example

1:47:51no it's also an iOS but it's the best example of my favorite feature this year

1:47:54which is last year or the year before it was extensibility and this year is the

1:47:58on-demand resources where they got this whole philosophy now of all the stuff

1:48:02you use all the time

1:48:03frequently and all the new stuff is going to be right there available on the

1:48:07flash chip superfast and the stuff you don't use we're going to keep up on the

1:48:11cloud and bring it down to you when you need it so effectively you have this

1:48:14your server side cloud worth of all this content but it doesn't slow down your

1:48:19machine when you're using it not like my ps3 which I think 24 hours of updates

1:48:23every time I turned it on I i wonder how well games are doing it certain the app

1:48:31store for apple TV is I would call it vibrant and every time I take a look at

1:48:36it there's definitely new stuff and so there's they absolutely have activity on

1:48:42it but our people actually using them i would say i have to say just to compare

1:48:50and contrast i would say with the watch

1:48:52they absolutely got developers to develop for it but i don't think many

1:48:57people are using third-party apps on our watch with much frequency not agree

1:49:02it just isn't a great platform for that yet it's too slow and it's too limited

1:49:06arguably maybe it won't be the same kind of a platform that the phone is right

1:49:11when they figure it out that might they may well be and it doesn't necessarily

1:49:14mean that the watch itself as a long-term device isn't useful or

1:49:19successful it just may mean that apps aren't a big part of that with apple TV

1:49:24i think the potential is clearly there you know for gaming and and whatever

1:49:28else but it's hard to tell i don't know i don't know how to gauge that from from

1:49:33our perspective there's some hard stuff they're like they don't include a

1:49:36bundled gamepad in it you have to get a third-party gamepad and because of that

1:49:40they changed their minds on whether you had to support with you could just offer

1:49:43exclusive gamepad games originally you could but then they said no you also

1:49:47have to support the Syrian remote which like some gaming compromises and it's

1:49:50fantastic I think odr is a lot of things don't support it yet like i don't know

1:49:54if unity or unreal supportive which means people can't just take their

1:49:57existing games and dump them on apple TV there's a lot of work involved in

1:50:00getting them to do that sort of quick staging for the download and

1:50:04downloading additional resources odr meaning the on demand demand resources

1:50:08yeah I apologize out yet so it's just a way of staging absolute through the idea

1:50:11of RDR is that you never want someone on their TV to hit a button and say storage

1:50:15is full please delete something that's a horrible experience on a console so you

1:50:19wanted to intelligently manage all that stuff but the drawback is it has to

1:50:22download a really small file in the beginning to see how much space there is

1:50:25and how much else that has to pull down and that means that the developer side

1:50:28they have to go through and part and slice up their app essentially so it can

1:50:32deliver itself in chunks and that's new it's not just taking your existing game

1:50:35and dumping it on the appletv yeah Jonas just ran into that with the the ps4 we

1:50:40have in a house where he got and it's funny because it was you got a couple of

1:50:46games from family members

1:50:50I you know I outside the family you know I game is mom got him to PlayStation

1:50:54games and got them on disc and I understand like as a gift why that's

1:50:59better you know that it's an actual thing you can unwrap and there's a

1:51:03tangible miss to it but i was thinking in the back of my head that's sort of a

1:51:07pain in the ass like I kind of you know I'm kind of although I'm kind of done

1:51:10with putting discs in the machines to watch movies or play games this and he

1:51:17was happy about it and I was like why why because well that you know the

1:51:21PlayStation is getting full and and in fact when he went to play the one he

1:51:27actually for the first time ran into even though the game was given to him on

1:51:31disk it actually generated you've gotta make room on your Playstation because it

1:51:36didn't even have enough space to download the patches for the game on

1:51:40disk and it wasn't a huge issue i mean we just you know figured out the it just

1:51:46a handful of games that he hasn't played recently he could get rid of you know

1:51:50once it had downloaded and make plenty of room on the guys like a 400 gigabytes

1:51:56drive didn't take much but like you said it's it's not a good experience

1:52:01yeah and I kind of feel like long-term again you know think about this as we go

1:52:07down the road and like you said like no well maybe some of the you know like

1:52:10unity and some of these big gaming things don't support odr yet

1:52:14it's not that it's not as important that they support it now is that they

1:52:20supported eventually and within two or three years if everybody does Apple dead

1:52:25and you know give Apple TV another two or three years of you know Johnny

1:52:30syringes teams magic and i'm not even making you know I don't want to go down

1:52:34the whole path of what's the point where apple TV is technically competitive with

1:52:40the dedicated gaming consoles or a mac mini for that right but i think you know

1:52:46it's it's now wearing the gap and I think it's the sort of thing where maybe

1:52:49it will never pass it but the gap will continue to get now or an hour and

1:52:53therefore eventually will be good enough

1:52:56whether it's you know how good it is as gaming platform now matters but how good

1:53:02it's going to be over all over the next three four five years is more important

1:53:06and getting odr support eventually within the next year or two could make a

1:53:11big difference you know three or four years from hell

1:53:13it's clearly part of apples long-term strategy because Apple music it's called

1:53:17near line and database parlance it's basically you prioritize frequently

1:53:22accessed in new data over in frequently accessed an older data and they do it

1:53:26for Apple music they do it for iCloud photo library everything that they're

1:53:29they're building towards an entire environment that sort of abstracts away

1:53:33storage so you never have to get that little pop-up saying you're a room it'll

1:53:36just intelligently almost like a fusion drive it'll just intelligently manage

1:53:40your storage back and forth but the compromises in general are super

1:53:43interesting like they went with 10 100 based tea instead of gigabit on the

1:53:46appletv and it sort of why would they do that but then it turns out the gigabit

1:53:50because of the speed it'll spike a CPU and the result and dropped frames on

1:53:55something that's trying to do 60 frames-per-second 1080p video or gaming

1:53:58so they went with a more conservative chipset because the video they're

1:54:01streaming is not that big so they don't need that bandwidth and this gives them

1:54:04a much better control over how much load hits the processor and they didn't go

1:54:09with four cakes 4km it's not a lot of penetration yet and HDR might be coming

1:54:13to four cases so making this box and hit obsessed a lot of people but at the same

1:54:17time they made a lot of sort of smart decisions they way they make with the

1:54:20camera and with other aspects of their products I yeah and I also think that

1:54:25they're designing for

1:54:27the mainstream and a you know let's keep this as simple as possible and the truth

1:54:34is very few people I if I had to guess very few people are hooking their apple

1:54:39TV up to ethernet . it's Wi-Fi all the way

1:54:43yeah and attitude on 11ac is better for that because why I still plug my name

1:54:48because I I just don't trust Wi-Fi connections for anything that I get

1:54:51super annoyed when it stops and buffers or drops a signal or have to reboot the

1:54:54router but for those people attitude 11ac is way more important to have a

1:54:58stable Wi-Fi connection to have a faster ethernet connection because you notice

1:55:01the problems with Wi-Fi much more than you would with ethernet yeah but you're

1:55:04not the typical you know the typical person i mean i don't know i would be an

1:55:08interesting what do you think the percentage of people lots of of all the

1:55:11people who've already bought the new Apple TV what percentage do you think

1:55:16are on Wi-Fi and ethernet i would bet at least ninety-five percent or Wi-Fi you

1:55:24know an apple

1:55:25I think you and I were both talking about this at the event apple has great

1:55:28numbers and all the stuff even if we don't always have them like there's no

1:55:31bluetooth keyboard support but it turns out like two percent of people use

1:55:34bluetooth keyboard and they're all developers right so it is all we're

1:55:38priority list right so we complained ical about it because we had that we

1:55:41knew that when you hook up a new Apple TV you can just take it and you know

1:55:45find a bluetooth keyboard nearby and then you can enter all your passwords

1:55:48conveniently and for the macbook one that we completely forgot to talk about

1:55:51to like the no it's not a lot of ports but almost nobody connects their macbook

1:55:55to an external display it's like four percent of people or something but it's

1:55:57all of us

1:55:58yeah i did forget about the macbook born I did too is just a busy year

1:56:02what was that that was march right yeah at the same event where the apple watch

1:56:09was ya rien research kit yeah well hold the phone on that because i'll tie that

1:56:16into something else and well that's the where we were talking about apple TV

1:56:29yeah I i would say with games i don't know if it's a hit yet or not I kind of

1:56:36feel like they made a mistake by by rejiggering the room

1:56:40on whether you can have a game that demands a controller I I understand why

1:56:48maybe they wouldn't want to like maybe the fear was that although if they

1:56:52allowed that all the games would do it and that would make where I think the

1:56:55problem is that if someone bought it and then found out they required a

1:56:58controller they get upset that was a hard way of telling people you need a

1:57:01controller

1:57:02well that's that's fixable though in software right like that's not a very

1:57:06difficult pro problem to solve because the apple TV itself knows whether a

1:57:12gaming controller has been configured for it

1:57:17yeah I think they were hoping to have that they just did not have that

1:57:20launched it so it it knows you know the system knows whether there is a

1:57:25dedicated gaming controller paired with it yes or not in it if it's not and the

1:57:31app you're trying to buy requires one it's very easy to put up a prompt that

1:57:35says this game requires a gaming controller

1:57:38do you still want to buy this yes or no

1:57:42you know yeah well don't don't put yes or no buttons up but by and cancel

1:57:46don't get me started on yes and no buttons yeah i know i think that's

1:57:50coming i just think they don't they didn't have it in place that they flip

1:57:52the role

1:57:53yeah i guess maybe that might have been why hopefully what my hope is that they

1:57:57changed the rule because it just wasn't ready to support it yet and that they

1:58:01fully plan to allow it and you can see from some of the exceptions they've made

1:58:06that they seem to be leaning in that direction like they do allow you to sell

1:58:10a game that requires a dedicated piece of hardware . like guitar hero is

1:58:16allowed to require you to buy you know the physical guitar hardware and disney

1:58:24infinity is allowed to require the little infinity victory right isn't

1:58:30there invented there is infinity for Apple TV right

1:58:33yes i'm glad i thought either that I'd imagined it

1:58:38so like disney infinity is an ingenious I think an ingenious way to deferred to

1:58:44make money from a game is instead of like in-app purchases like recurring

1:58:50revenue disney infinity like to unlock characters you actually have to buy

1:58:53I the physical character is like a little action figure it's like lego

1:58:57dimensions and that other one he seemed like you forgetting so that's allowed in

1:59:01it but what's not what's not allowed is to require a generic gaming controller .

1:59:06but clearly some games absolutely positively need it

1:59:11yes you know and there's some platformers that have come out i forget

1:59:15the name of the one but there's a platformer for Apple TV it's pretty

1:59:19popular and if you don't have a gaming controller the way their way around it

1:59:22is that the character sort of like just runs automatically and it turns into

1:59:27more like a one-button jump type thing when but the game is clearly meant to be

1:59:32played like a regular platformer where you can have full control over going

1:59:36left right up down

1:59:37I don't know if we want to get into whole app store tangent now but the

1:59:41there's clearly hitting up against limitations of the old because the

1:59:43appstore technology is ancient and it comes from itunes music days and it

1:59:47needs to be overhauled and it's a huge process but you can't even if I right

1:59:51now if I said John this is an amazing apple apple TV app I have no way of

1:59:55sending it to you i have to tell you to go to search and start typing this in

1:59:58and maybe you'll get there

1:59:58and maybe you'll get there

2:00:00right read it there are just so many things you can't do with the apple TV

2:00:02because it wasn't it's the farthest extreme from what the app store was set

2:00:06up to do originally yeah I wonder what I mean it is crazy though that there's no

2:00:11way and it's you and I run into this if you're right website where like if I

2:00:18don't know if Electronic Arts has a game

2:00:21well if ea.com / name of the game points to their apple TV game well we can link

2:00:27to their website obviously but there is no like app Apple TV app store thing

2:00:32that we can link we can link directly to the to the app and even if I do there's

2:00:37no I mean they don't be on surface web kit as well because a private api in the

2:00:41apple TV so no one can see that and quickly have to actually physically go

2:00:43and start typing that in on their apple TV anyway right right and so they from

2:00:48the perspective of writing an article about a nap or a game for Apple TV we

2:00:52can't really linked to it directly and be if you're at your TV and you want to

2:00:55get to it you there's no way to its it is we're at a hard problem i understand

2:01:03i'm not saying this is one of those ones where I laugh because it does seem silly

2:01:06but I'm not laughing because there's an obvious solution staring us in the face

2:01:10and it's just seems incomprehensible that they didn't you know just do X it's

2:01:15a long-standing issue like if I'm wondering fireball and you recommend a

2:01:17great mac app and i'm looking on my iphone i can hit that mac app store like

2:01:21it doesn't help me at all

2:01:22the apple watch gets around it because it's a slave device right now it's or

2:01:26companion device right now so he just transferred the app back and forth but I

2:01:30can't really get stuff off and i can download itunes but it's sort of

2:01:33horrible and it makes you think that there has to be something under way to

2:01:36allow for cross-platform and even web-based purchases because they're all

2:01:40those itunes preview pages up there which we just haven't gotten there yet

2:01:44yeah it seems like you ought to be able to do some things that you know the path

2:01:51forward would be something like the way with the kindle that if you tell me

2:01:58about this great book and send me a link to the kindle page for the book and I'm

2:02:03my kindle isn't even with me you know my physical kindle hardware is at home and

2:02:07i'm at work i can go and buy it now and amazon just say where do you want this

2:02:11to go and i can say just send it to me

2:02:13I you know send it to my kindle and when i get home there it is it's already on

2:02:17my kindle it seems like you want to be able to do something like that with your

2:02:20Apple TV where you want to be able to if you're on a computer there should be a

2:02:25web version of the apple TV app store that if you're signed into your itunes

2:02:31account you can just you know by a nap or downloaded to your apple TV right

2:02:37from there absolutely Andy they can even put up a prompt if you want to go to

2:02:41apple tvs that you began to purchase on this do you want to confirm this

2:02:44purchase now and you press yes then it just downloads if they're really worried

2:02:48about you know people buying things by accident for the wrong platform but it

2:02:51and it likens me is itunes is our cake but it's got billions and billions of

2:02:55dollars of transactions going over it so it's hard to just to just change it but

2:02:59it's a bridge that is sort of old and crumbly and they have to make sure that

2:03:03second that new bridge is fully built out and then sort of carefully to

2:03:06redirect traffic onto it it's not going to be an easy swap but i really hope

2:03:10sort of like how apple com this year had that big change where store.apple.com

2:03:14disappeared and suddenly it was on modern web site with everything

2:03:17integrated i really hope the same thing is it's been going on for itunes and one

2:03:21day they just flip a switch and we have a modern you know elegant version of the

2:03:24entire itunes store stack for all the devices i still get thrown off by the

2:03:29new store . apple.com because it's I'm so it's so ingrained in me then you have

2:03:35to go to a separate website to to buy stuff at apple or see the prices for

2:03:39them or something like that and the fact that you don't know it but you know it's

2:03:43i click the shopping bag all the time expected to be a story there is just

2:03:45empty

2:03:46that's a transition of that that that team that that's the sort of thing

2:03:50because it in hindsight it feels like wow this is the way it always should

2:03:53have been that the team that did the work on that it's easy to overlook just

2:03:56how hard that is to to change something that again like you said that billions

2:04:00of dollars getting through it and make a change like that and and have it come

2:04:04off as well as it yeah just don't again we woke up and had changed and that

2:04:08that's pretty much exactly what you want to have happen with itself now before i

2:04:12do the last I one more sponsors that but before we do that we should talk from

2:04:15from the September and we didn't mention the iphone success yet or the ipad from

2:04:21everything I've had pro

2:04:23the 6s I you know it's the fantastic i don't think there's much to talk about

2:04:32it in hindsight I mean it's a terrific year-over-year upgrade versus the six

2:04:36most people don't buy them one year after another but just in terms of

2:04:41keeping the incremental year-over-year it just keeps getting better every year

2:04:45progress moving forward it's it's about as good an update as Apple's ever done

2:04:50yeah and I think it's once again an example of of the locust Apple goes to

2:04:55incredible lengths with these phones and this year it looks the same but it's got

2:04:587000 series aluminum the screen looks the same but it's got double density

2:05:02chemically treated glass it is almost to the atom completely redesigned got the

2:05:08taptic engine inside at the night processor inside it

2:05:10I it's got all the new rigidity to support the 3d touch because you're

2:05:14actually deforming the glass on a microscopic level to trigger the the

2:05:19pressure sensitivity in the phones got all these really cool elements in it but

2:05:23on the outside it looks like last year's phone i think you know again maybe i'll

2:05:29sing a different tune a year from now but i do think it for somebody who is on

2:05:33a two-year a very much more typical to your upgrade cycle than the idiotic

2:05:38throw money away every year one year upgrade cycle that you and I are on I

2:05:46think

2:05:46s years the better year to be on and will last time it was touch ID time

2:05:52before that it was serie el and just little things like the lack of Bend

2:05:57ability like I think the been get clearly with lat year ago is overblown

2:06:02but it is true you know fundamentally it is true that with a certain amount of

2:06:07pressure you could bend the iphone and but metal man see I was physics and that

2:06:11some people were running into it in non extreme circumstances you know that they

2:06:17weren't trying to be a jackass and purposefully bend it but it did get bent

2:06:21and it doesn't you know this phone doesn't for a couple of reasons you know

2:06:25that increase you know that the new aluminum different structures inside

2:06:28that you know little things like that just died i don't think there was a

2:06:32single photo scandal with the success already put the two different processors

2:06:37was the closest we got ya the clay alright the closest we got was that they

2:06:41were sourcing the CPUs from what TSMC at Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing and

2:06:47from Samsung and from Samsung and somebody had at initially came out with

2:06:52some sort of benchmark where where the samsung one was worse but also it was

2:06:57interesting it's an example of how like a little knowledge is dangerous and

2:07:01chipsets have multiple characteristics and multiple dimensions and on on on on

2:07:06an artificial synthetic tests you can run those chips flat-out and because of

2:07:10various things including the the die size and the different manufacturing and

2:07:14how they would be those chips work you could deplete the samsung ship faster

2:07:17but that's only measuring how fast you can deplete it running at maximum you're

2:07:21not saying well this chip is running hotter for a longer period of time

2:07:24it's almost like you have to sprinters and one is quicker off the gate but the

2:07:26other one is stronger and the finish and you're trying to you're trying to

2:07:29measure two seconds in who's better who's a better sprinter right that was

2:07:32it though the photo scandal was at the sam someone would run your battery lower

2:07:36yeah you got less battery life with sound with which true in a synthetic

2:07:39benchmark but not true in real life right and I feel like even I i seem to

2:07:43recall that even this synthetic benchmark that was used you know other

2:07:45people ran it later and didn't get results anywhere near as dramatic

2:07:49literally different is but it wasn't anywhere near as profound as initially

2:07:52being on different cell towers would lead to is the a significant difference

2:07:55as running those tests on those chipsets right so

2:07:58I do feel like you know if you're only if you're only going to get one every

2:08:02other year you're better off on the s cycle than on a cycle so that was one of

2:08:06those interesting stories for me this year was apple's beginning that iphone

2:08:09upgrade program where they're starting to move like to starting to cater people

2:08:12who do want to get a new iphone every year and also sort of building up there

2:08:16the big trick for this is that you have to hand in your old iphone which they

2:08:19can then sell in emerging markets so it's sort of it helps out with their

2:08:22price differential in in those emerging markets but it also says use the people

2:08:26who do want the new iphone every year and it's I know people say this almost

2:08:30sarcastically but it is iphone as a service almost yeah well and I would

2:08:34compare it to the very well established market and you know high-end you know

2:08:40very lucrative market of automobiles and that leasing is a long been established

2:08:47as something that the card makers themselves the car dealers themselves

2:08:50offer you I did I hear it you know I've been to as I start thinking about the

2:08:57fact that professionally I I seems as though i might be writing about cars

2:09:01sooner rather than later

2:09:02I've started paying a little bit more attention and I've noticed that a lot of

2:09:06car advertisements only talk about leasing prices and and you know it's

2:09:12it's too it's exactly analogous there's an absolutely no difference except that

2:09:20the iphone costs you know like eight hundred to a thousand dollars and cars

2:09:25cost you know twenty two hundred thousand dollars and that was sort of

2:09:29one of the funny other photo scandals with everyone's panicking what Apple

2:09:32going to do now that all the carriers in the US have changed their structure and

2:09:35I can build a higher the price of the iphone every year ignoring that you know

2:09:39samsung android phone the high-end android phones cost the same price that

2:09:42an iphone so it's a universal problem but also apple from the carriers are

2:09:46never going to let that have front sticker price show the consumers they're

2:09:49going to have all these different deals you'll be able to partake in

2:09:52yeah it's is the the worry over that was there's obviously some interesting

2:09:57thinking going on and it is somebody's problem to solve in the manage but it is

2:10:02definitely a manageable problem you know and the fact that you see BMW

2:10:07commercials are you here Jon Hamm

2:10:09no pitching at mercedes commercials and then the dollar amount that you here at

2:10:13the end is you know four hundred dollars or something like that well you know

2:10:16it's weird that they're not talking about that yeah they don't tell you

2:10:20that's the cost on mercedes yeah that it's you know eighty-three thousand

2:10:23dollars to walk you know to just bite and cash off the line even now they'll

2:10:27say it's like 279 dollars every two weeks

2:10:29yeah but it's definitely you know manageable and it's definitely what you

2:10:39know that to me is that the shift that it's you know it's at you know it is

2:10:45obviously more of a financial strategy than product strategy and the product

2:10:51stuff that interests me more about it i found an Apple but you know it's

2:10:54definitely interesting and I definitely think it's part of the part of the you

2:10:59know and it's like you said that it's just a generic sense that it's not just

2:11:03nerds like us who want a new iphone every year that maybe I am maybe I'm

2:11:06overstating just how how rare you and I you know people like us are terms of

2:11:10that that is that sort of becoming more of a mass-market mindset when Apple's

2:11:14learning that I mean these we saw that with the gold color iphone 5s and it

2:11:17turned out your people cared more about having the new color than a lot of other

2:11:20things and now the rose gold iPhone 6s people really want to have the color of

2:11:24the shows that they have the new iphone right and we're going to be going into

2:11:27the iphone 7 and history repeats itself we're going to have a new design now and

2:11:31that that usually is another tripping . for a bunch of people to upgrade again

2:11:34Tim Cook's that I think it was still only thirty or forty percent of people

2:11:38had upgraded to a new iphone so they have a huge potential market not only in

2:11:43people switching from Android are getting their first home but also in

2:11:46people turning over those iphones now but other than that I don't have much to

2:11:52say about the iphone success grateful yeah it's you know

2:11:56great that's it ipad pro should we save it for the next segment here

2:12:02alright our last sponsor their final sponsor is our good friends the Broward

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2:13:13they struggle with are the ways to all the various things that they did through

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2:14:19there's themes you can just like the way that the system has light and dark

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2:15:18Broward group gets the name from in addition to being a great app developer

2:15:23with a great sense of design and stuff like this act as a side job that I laugh

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2:15:35mechanical watches is a watchmaker in addition to making that and he already

2:15:41launched his newest timepiece it's called the mirage and is available in

2:15:45three colors are on the earlier episode of the show

2:15:48each one is a limited edition of only 300 pieces and they all come with an

2:15:53engraved number on the back

2:15:55really really beautiful design on the dial my very favorite thing about this

2:15:59watch is the dial design or at least the dial combined with the hands really

2:16:04really love it

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2:16:42watches a mechanical watch the retail price 750 dollars a great price for

2:16:46mechanical watch it's a lot if you're a casual

2:16:49respire but this is totally totally within the realm of what a handmade

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2:17:09dough if you use the code retina Gruber love this guy he's a really high E is

2:17:16also very very nice guy Edward Brower and I I've been emailing them about a

2:17:22little app that he's working on inside next thing coming up very very nice guy

2:17:25thoughtful guy but I kinda hate him because he makes me feel like sat same

2:17:29way that I get so angry you sometimes like when you are so productive and you

2:17:33know like I feel like I struggle to get like like one or two good pieces on

2:17:38daring fireball and a podcast down a week and then you have like seven

2:17:42thousand words on I more and a comprehensive review of a new thing that

2:17:46only came out the day before and like 45 podcasts so you make me angry but this

2:17:50guy makes me angrier because he's is running a full-time software business

2:17:54with it great app the differences between you are two and three are

2:17:59humongous it is absolutely a remarkable he got a remarkable amount of new

2:18:04features in there in a remarkably short number amount of time

2:18:08yeah in the meantime he also makes really next to those watches are legit i

2:18:13went took a look at them after the last spot they're amazing

2:18:16it's don't understand I don't understand how it does that the Renaissance people

2:18:21that makes me mad I feel like it makes me feel like I'm running in slow motion

2:18:25Apple the ipad pro yeah I i don't really have much to say about i think it is

2:18:33absolutely remarkable i think is a it is maybe the best single best of iOS device

2:18:42that's been made i mean i don't know it's kind of a hard thing to settle i

2:18:47mean i could make the case for the iphone success to i could also make the

2:18:51case maybe for the ipad mini 4 which we forgot to mention that came out in

2:18:56September

2:18:57just like it's a great tablet to it is we just would we got one for Jonas

2:19:03upgrading a very old ipad for him and just looking at it it's perfect

2:19:07it is I especially it it to me that the difference in the mini and the ipad air

2:19:15is are you old enough that you do that you want things to be bigger family

2:19:21because it's the exact same number of pixels and the layouts identically you

2:19:25don't have to do anything as a developer 22 to do for that it's just you want

2:19:28smaller you want it big and I'm at the point now you know with the is medical

2:19:32issues aside to but just at the age that I mad i kind of want the bigger one

2:19:37it doesn't have the X and the processor either but in there's so few people can

2:19:41actually revive push it to that limit but for someone like you know for

2:19:45someone like Jonas was you know perfect vision that it's an 11 year older to

2:19:49almost 12 year old it's a clearly the better ipad for him he loves it i mean

2:19:53and absolutely adores the size i can make the case for two but the ipad pro

2:19:59it

2:20:01it kept its the performance on the device that just sort of startles me i

2:20:07was joking i picking up in New York like I think you did it on the way back out i

2:20:10passed by the microsoft store and I could hear all those intel processors

2:20:14just crying and maybe try to jump off the table

2:20:17I i want to write about this soon because i think it's been I think people

2:20:25have taken it the wrong way is is the angle of the that that this spells doom

2:20:32for Intel in the long run and it's not and and I know part of my argument for

2:20:38this as just baking a dislike of sanity check and not just going by gut feeling

2:20:42or what I you know what I think makes for an interesting story but actually

2:20:46trying to measure is using like geekbench scores and she's showing that

2:20:50the ipad pro beats the macbook one but it is hard because this was a really

2:20:59good year for Apple silicon the Apple the a9 is there is a really forward

2:21:02where Intel really struggle to get that the 10 nanometer process out and to get

2:21:08Broadwell because there's a broad well y which is core

2:21:11am i think is a marketing term in the macbook and it's not a great chip so the

2:21:16ipad pro hit hit it out the park while intelli during the year that Intel was

2:21:20struggling so that and that's a great point but i think that it it's more it's

2:21:24not so much like one test of these two devices at this snapshot in time but

2:21:31it's the overall trend line and in the way that like intersecting trend lines

2:21:37over a long period of time at the point where they intersect maybe that you know

2:21:42maybe next year the macbook one is faster than next year's ipad pro but if

2:21:47it is it won't be by much and three four five years from now i don't think

2:21:51there's any question and there's also the issue of being fast enough you know

2:21:57that it's it doesn't even matter whether there's other max our macbooks that get

2:22:02faster and and just in terms of looking at the trendline like just go back three

2:22:06four five years and look at the I original ipad the ipad 2 or even the

2:22:09ipad 3 and where they stood performance-wise compared to the macbook

2:22:16airs of the time and it was no comparison they were they

2:22:19you know in terms of anything that you would measure like on geekbench or

2:22:22something like that they were behind but that gap has narrowed steadily and

2:22:26steadily as years go by the IP that the a9 chips and arm chips in general

2:22:35industry-wide are getting better faster than intel chips because the scale is

2:22:40just so much bigger

2:22:42I think it's also again Apple has considerable advantage and that they

2:22:47make their own ships intel has to sell those chips at a profit and they have to

2:22:51support a variety of different let's run windows they have to run linux we have

2:22:54to run OS 10 and you look at something like the a-line accident can run 443 4k

2:23:00streamer the same time and that was just grind a lot of Intel even intel-based

2:23:03macs into the ground can't do that but Apple built those trips to do it they

2:23:07can purpose-built all those chips for exactly what they want to do and that

2:23:11gives them an incredible amount of flexibility and even in our mean

2:23:14Qualcomm just been struggling samsung has been stroking their own family

2:23:18should arguably have way better chips and apple but they just don't have the

2:23:21designers apples got great designers they've got the advantage of

2:23:24nothing exactly for their hardware even if they could run on Intel's 10

2:23:28nanometer process I think we would have the best ships in the world we already

2:23:31do but we have even better one

2:23:34it's a good quits such an interesting question as to what how can samsung

2:23:39manufacture these for Apple but can't do it for themselves

2:23:43it's the same reason why the cattle imports on my galaxy phone they just

2:23:46it's just not something that's partly they just don't have the people it it

2:23:52really is to me just eye-opening when you use the ipad pro that you know that

2:23:57my complaints about it trying to use it instead of a macbook ro almost entirely

2:24:02software basically it's just the design of iOS itself to me not being conducive

2:24:07to the sort of things i want to do on a mac in terms of how do i take advantage

2:24:12of this big screen and how does you know like as much as I i do like the

2:24:16split-screen stuff that they've added to iOS 9 but to me it it's not as it's

2:24:23still not as useful as the way that I can have multiple things on screen at

2:24:27once on the mac and as i wrote my review I I'm frustrated at the lack of keyboard

2:24:33navigability that if you're if supposed to fundamentally be able to use this

2:24:38device if you want while it's hooked up to a keyboard

2:24:41I don't want to have to reach up and touch the screen to do some things

2:24:45because it's it really is exactly as Apple's been telling us for a long time

2:24:50ergonomically terrible

2:24:52yeah my understanding is a lot of that stuff just didn't make the cut for iOS 9

2:24:55but it has been and will be worked on

2:24:57yeah except that it has to be yeah and I've heard from some some friends within

2:25:03the company you know that absolutely some of these things are frustration

2:25:07like including the thing i observed about the fact that when you command tab

2:25:15the multitasking goes from left to right because they just put like a brain-dead

2:25:19port of the mac command tab switcher in and the new system wide like double

2:25:26click the home button touch the screen switcher goes right to left in terms of

2:25:30most recent 22 all this even though the old built-in switcher that was there for

2:25:37iOS 7

2:25:38aight was left to right yeah you're colliding with the force press the for

2:25:43swype an eye on the iphone 6s there because they wanted that the back

2:25:46gesture goes from left to right and so the the force right Chester had to go

2:25:50from left to right and you know that what I heard after i wrote about some of

2:25:54the stuff is

2:25:55yeah we know yeah so they get it at first I mean the best thing about the

2:25:59ipad pro right now and if you look at the 60 Minutes segment how many of the

2:26:02executive team members had problems in front of them is that it anything that

2:26:06it's going to be almost like the Steve Jobs days or anything that doesn't work

2:26:09is going to get immediate executive attention

2:26:10I don't trust that I i would just say that I don't trust anything I saw in

2:26:14that in the 60 minute thing as indicative of what they actually use I

2:26:19wouldn't be surprised but I wouldn't i would take it all with a grain of salt

2:26:23alternatively stage manager apparently some of them do think that that has

2:26:26become at least for now their go-to machine

2:26:28oh I wouldn't be surprised you know and i think it's a tremendous like and you

2:26:32know a a meetings to to you know situation is tremendous that's almost

2:26:36where you'd rather have a device that is less likely to distract you and if you

2:26:41just want to put up a note app and have it be full screen and I think it's

2:26:45tremendous for a scenario like that

2:26:46yeah and it's interesting as a device because we are hitting this point where

2:26:50the macbook has gone down to be as close as possible to an ipad the ipad has gone

2:26:54up to be as close as possible to a macbook but both of them both of them

2:26:58are still very separate things like the macbook doesn't have any any real touch

2:27:02awareness is not a touch friendly environment it's not really a mobile

2:27:06friendly environment and likewise your frustrations with the keyboard on iOS

2:27:10and even though split screen is nice there's no multi window there's no drag

2:27:13and drop their on any of these conventions that are basically muscle

2:27:16memory to people like us now and you sort of there's no middle ground you

2:27:20have to pick a side and neither side is perfect

2:27:24I

2:27:27somebody on Twitter the other day was posted a little video where they just

2:27:31said hey finally saw ipad pro you know it's like somebody who hadn't seen one

2:27:35in the store yet and it was like here's how I tried you know not trying to be a

2:27:39jerk but they videotaped it with their the shot video with their iphone here's

2:27:43me trying to to attach a photo to a male and they had mail on the left and photos

2:27:49on the right and they tried to tap and hold on a photo and then drag it over

2:27:53across that divide and of course it didn't work

2:27:58yeah again you gotta figure that stuff is being worked on but if you like to

2:28:01touch and hold you for like what is going to be the affordance for that sort

2:28:04of activity and it's and you have to make sure it doesn't collide with all

2:28:07the other gestures that are that are being used in iOS I think all that is

2:28:10coming I I last time I was on I think we spoke about my of this long-standing

2:28:13desire for ipad OS I think the same way there's watch us the watchguard is

2:28:18distinct thing and there's a there's TV us and the appletv God is distinct thing

2:28:21I'm glad that that the ipad is getting some features now but I still think it

2:28:25needs it needs that concept of keep backboard keep front board but take

2:28:30springboard and think of something that really is a tablet first it takes

2:28:33advantage of things like the ipad pro yeah and that's this sort of thing it

2:28:38was definitely the last time you were on the show I couldn't agree more in fact i

2:28:41agree more I'd agreed then I grew even more now that it's whether they asked

2:28:46what they call it now I don't they should call it that just call an iOS but

2:28:49what it should be fundamentally those ipad OS is what if iOS was meant only

2:28:55for the ipad what would it

2:28:57what should it be like and how do we do that how do we get from here to there

2:29:00and the ipad suffers the same problem the mac app store doesn't matter has a

2:29:05much more successful sibling so when you get resources they go to the ios app

2:29:08store when you get resources it goes to the iphone and reported up to the ipad

2:29:11and now that we have broken through with put for you and with some of the

2:29:14keyboard stuff i hope that that continues and others it's one of those

2:29:18things where people inside Apple have the same arguments that we have outside

2:29:21of apple and I just and I just hope that those people start to get more sway with

2:29:25it because i think as a device if Apple is confident that this is the future of

2:29:30personal computing for them I think they really need to give it the attention it

2:29:32deserves and that that brings us to the single most important product that apple

2:29:37introduced in $MONTH 2015

2:29:39the smart battery case but I've been forcing myself to use it for the last

2:29:47weekend how I switched away from the iphone 6s plus and then using this

2:29:51success with the battery case you would you

2:29:56I cfa I if you got used to the plus if you like the plus I can't see how you

2:30:00would how you could i don't but i wanted to i like to make sure that when I want

2:30:05to review a product that i go back and actually cuz it's impossible to review a

2:30:08product properly when you first get it because there's enormous pressure to get

2:30:11that review up and take not pressure from apple or anybody you were ok but

2:30:14just if people don't care anymore after a couple weeks don't even bother reading

2:30:18it so i wanted to take a look at it and I wanted to understand it because if you

2:30:22want a bigger built-in battery you get the iphone 6s plus that's what it's

2:30:26there for

2:30:26and it's nice because it's elongated and it dissipates heat really well but

2:30:30there's a whole sort of and people think that Apple wants to make lighter phones

2:30:34they don't want to start with the microphones they want to make lighter

2:30:36funds they want to make phones that have great radio reception there's all sorts

2:30:39of trade-offs that you have to do when you have things like batteries and

2:30:42things like radios and phones so the iphone 6 I think Apple again is very

2:30:47sincere when they say that for some people it just it just wasn't enough to

2:30:50do things that were more than average day they wanted to give them the option

2:30:54and if you build that in you can take it off if you have a heavy phone that's

2:30:57twice as thick you can't pull that off when you don't need it so you make a

2:31:00case and then you want the case as one piece and you want a case it doesn't

2:31:04interfere with the radio maybe even makes the radio better because that way

2:31:07the radio doesn't have to ramp up and use even more power when it's got a

2:31:10battery case on because that defeats the purpose of a battery case and you

2:31:13started go through the requirements of it and you end up with the case that

2:31:16doesn't look great but works really really well and then you get this you

2:31:22know previously as Apple only cares about designing care about functionality

2:31:25and make something really functional and immediately get slammed for the design

2:31:28of it because endlessly interesting I i spent you know definitely a full week

2:31:33with it i think we've been longer i was wearing it all the time and I keep

2:31:37thinking if there's one thing I wish I'd

2:31:40i wish i'd mentioned in my piece writing about it is maybe a little bit more

2:31:45emphasis on feel what it feels like

2:31:49as opposed to what it looks like because it definitely looks and I you know I i I

2:31:53don't I don't think I hold back i think i call it funny-looking weird-looking

2:31:56it's definitely weird looking i called it awkward and ugly but it definitely

2:32:01doesn't feel bad and I without question think that it feels better in hand than

2:32:07any of the mophie cases that I've ever tried because they make the phone feel

2:32:11entirely fat from yes left-to-right they make you scratch your hand over it where

2:32:16this one the home sort of falls into your palm and your fingers go on either

2:32:18side so I i would argue and it you know if somebody clearly this is the realm of

2:32:23subjectivity of somebody else would disagree short yeah but i feel very

2:32:26confident arguing that if that for me at least i think for many others it feels

2:32:30better than a movie-style case and if somebody else wants to argue that it

2:32:35looks worse to them I wouldn't disagree and I you know that subjective but that

2:32:40you know and I think joanna stern said it best interview all battery charging

2:32:45cases are ugly they are in one way or another and apples is not an exception

2:32:51it's a really it's as to date an unsolved problem to make a case that is

2:32:56a battery that will contain a significant charge for the battery that

2:33:01isn't ugly in and thick it's like the headset jack you like but right now a

2:33:06lot of headphones won't fit into it but what do you can make a bigger hole cuz

2:33:09you destroy the structure of the bottom of the phone he did your problems that

2:33:12you just can't solve in a good way yet right

2:33:14I think that this is a very reasonable compromise and i think it's interesting

2:33:22and i like that Apple tried this I like that Apple decided it was better to do

2:33:28this imperfections side rather than not do it at all and apparently they've been

2:33:32working on it flick it came out like no one really likes that kind of december

2:33:36they've been working on it for a long time and again like people measure oh

2:33:39it's got like the the mah

2:33:42$OPERAND milliamps are lower in this and something else but that's not in context

2:33:46in context it doesn't waste radio which saves a tremendous amount of battery and

2:33:51also apple because Apple is Apple they can integrate it to the point where it

2:33:54knows is connected to a case and not to an outlet so it doesn't turn on all the

2:33:58background processes done start downloading and doing all the networking

2:34:01that it would in another battery case we're saying is even more power so they

2:34:04sort of optimized for efficiency and not for raw volume of battery

2:34:08yeah and I kind of feel like I thought I would when I read reviews of it that a

2:34:12lot of them mentioned and to me this is just it's the wrong way of doing it is

2:34:16you have to understand what it's supposed to be used for it but the test

2:34:19that a lot of people tried to use was alright take of iphone that stopped

2:34:22completely down to zero and plug it in and how far do you get and you don't

2:34:27even you know the complaint was it doesn't even get you back a full charge

2:34:30doesn't get you back two hundred percent like 80 percenters that's not the use

2:34:33case of it though the use case of it is not how far does it get you from a

2:34:37completely dead phone it's what is your battery life if you you know if you're

2:34:42happy

2:34:43what is your battery life like if you keep it in it from the start of the day

2:34:46and the answer is it easily get you through the whole day of very heavy use

2:34:53that's why i have a switch on it to write his that's not something that

2:34:55humans should be should be managing that's when the software should be

2:34:58managing right whereas the thing and I mentioned this thing i personally prefer

2:35:03than a battery charging case is a little pocket-sized external battery that's the

2:35:08sort of thing though where you do want to know how much you know where the mega

2:35:12amps or met whatever amps ma ma HW r where they were that really matters

2:35:18where let's say if I take one with me and where my family's at Disneyworld all

2:35:23day where maybe i'll charge my phone up a little bit and then give it to my wife

2:35:26and let her child her phone up a little bit and we plug in your ipad for some

2:35:30time in theory yeah 40 or 41 that though the ones that would charge and I pattern

2:35:35i would call them bigger than pocket-sized but if you're carrying a

2:35:38bag around it's easily you know it's just I can certainly see why a lot of

2:35:41people do put them in their bag that's where that matters for something that's

2:35:46supposed to get you all day battery life even with heavy use the amount of you

2:35:51know energy that's in the apple one is more than enough

2:35:54that the larger piece that I've seen and I think you've used I know you've seen

2:35:58these there's a bunch of people who've had like this or like this is the year

2:36:02Apple Design went to ship and their arguments are more or less the battery

2:36:08cases ugly the apple TV remote is symmetric so that it's hard to tell

2:36:14which way it's pointed and incredibly ignorant piece on the Apple pencil

2:36:18charges is like a like a big skinny wang hanging out of your ipad pro and the

2:36:26macbook doesn't have enough USB ports and they lump them all together and

2:36:31they're like there you go apples going to shit and i would say that there is

2:36:36some merit to some of these complaints and there is no merit to some of these

2:36:40complaints and some of them are not really an index they want to lump it all

2:36:45together and say that Apple is losing its way without steve jobs and jony ive

2:36:49is you know I don't know it out you know not paying attention or something like

2:36:54often an arboretum somewhere in Belgium you're right and I don't think I think

2:36:59there's some merit to some of the complaints but i don't think that any of

2:37:02them are worrisome with the possible existence exception of Apple music I

2:37:08think the a lot of them are incredibly lazy and just that they didn't try to

2:37:11understand why the design was done the way it was before they criticized some

2:37:14of the points are absolutely valid but Apple has always had a design that you

2:37:18could criticize every year you know bad priest Eve jobs after the Second Coming

2:37:22is steve jobs during Tim Cook's rain there's always always been designed

2:37:26elements that was that that weren't great mobile me again famously under

2:37:30steve jobs

2:37:31the thing that's interesting to me is that again do people take the time to

2:37:34understand it there's criticism that the ipad pro had this this empty space for

2:37:38the speakers and they should have been filled with battery but then sort of

2:37:41thing how heavy would that make the ipad LOL this and what and you are legally

2:37:45not allowed to ship batteries lithium ion batteries of a certain size would be

2:37:48great to have an ipad pro that you cannot ship to a customer and always

2:37:53stay over there was an article about how Apple was posting a job listing for

2:37:56someone to use avid and and adobe premiere and it into the whole article

2:38:02how even apple doesn't want to use final cut anymore in it and that was actually

2:38:05for the beats office in culver city outside

2:38:08los angeles which is as only ever been using those products and hasn't been

2:38:12integrated into apples by so it is just like those are like sort of lazy

2:38:15articles in my opinion and well you could it I totally agree with that and I

2:38:20saw that about the the final cut pro not being listed as a thing for the job and

2:38:25it was beat you can argue though that is still is damning against final cut pro x

2:38:29that somebody outside Apple wasn't using it because they're there were you know

2:38:34that they showed you know without it you know that they should have that final

2:38:38cut pro x is what it should be that they would have been using that every

2:38:41customer would use it although Apple increasingly is not targeting every

2:38:43customer with their products yeah i think a discussion of what's gone wrong

2:38:47with final cut pro x is beyond the scope of yes absolutely but it'd be worth

2:38:50talking about but I love music the control yeah there's absolutely things

2:38:53for criticizing the one of the the one that I find the most frustrating and one

2:38:57I think is the most clearly talked about is the Apple pencil which is that if you

2:39:02and I swear to god it the gizmodo article was more or less in terms of pay

2:39:09what's bad about apple design and all the stuff in 2015

2:39:12they were like Apple pencil enough said and it's just a picture of it charging

2:39:16well it sticks off the table and the malleability charger in the mouth oh

2:39:20yeah the trade union a lump day and set to go to the App charger at the the

2:39:24charger and mouse on the bottom

2:39:26I that's an interesting that separate than the pencil but they they lump them

2:39:31together with the pencil if you write for a site that is ostensibly focused on

2:39:36technology at all as gizmodo supposedly is and the only thing you're gonna say

2:39:40about the pencil in your article about its design is this is what it looks like

2:39:44when you're charging it from the ipad and not even mention that it is i really

2:39:50think without any kind of hyperbole that it's revolutionized stylus input in

2:39:55human-computer interaction i used Wacom tablets for 10 years and this is the

2:39:59absolute best i have ever used right there have been ones that work on

2:40:03devices with you know very low refraction because the surface is close

2:40:09to the class just like all of the various styluses for the work on all

2:40:13other iOS devices by capacitor and there have been wacom things that work with

2:40:18lower latency and stuff but have always but none of them did they

2:40:21they've reduced all of these trade-offs and it's a you and when you talk to

2:40:25people who do artwork with the start of stuff that that they're just over the

2:40:31moon about the potential just feels like a pencil is right is the best digital

2:40:36pen interment i've ever used right again i use this professionally for a decade

2:40:40it is a 2 not even mention it is it's just sad to me that you're not going to

2:40:46talk about the incredible technology advances that has just so you can make

2:40:52fun of it what it looks like when it's charging but none of them also none of

2:40:55the mentioned that the pencil ships with a little things so that you can charge

2:40:59it if you don't want to charge it that way because you think it looks stupid

2:41:02you can charge it just by it's like a male to female adapter so that you can

2:41:06charge it by plugging in any other lighting cord

2:41:09yeah that's what i use because I invariably i charged my things at night

2:41:12and then i need to charge both and once you've plugged in the iPad you can plug

2:41:15the pencil let's get to so I just got that little dingus and plug it into the

2:41:18cable next to it right

2:41:22the better question is why did they design it the way they did where the

2:41:27built-in charger is a male that that sticks that you would stick into the

2:41:33ipad and have the pencil stick out as opposed to making the built-in one a

2:41:38female so that you can charge it into any cable anywhere and then have an

2:41:42adapter to turn it into a male to do that

2:41:44admittedly looks kinda silly when it stick out sticks out of the thing

2:41:48charging and I've did I don't know anybody who's involved in the

2:41:53development of the pencil so I say this just as a gas but I can't help but think

2:41:57that they debated this thoroughly and that the answer is that in a pinch when

2:42:04you're using it and the pencil runs out of battery and all the sudden your tap

2:42:08tap you realize oh this is out of battery

2:42:11the fact that you don't have to worry if you have an adapter with you that you

2:42:14can always just plug it into the ipad that you're obviously using right now

2:42:18because then we're talking about the scenario of your in the middle of

2:42:21drawing something and the pencil runs out of battery

2:42:25the fact that you can just stick it in no matter what because even if you lose

2:42:28the cap the pencil has the male adapter you stick it in and 15 seconds later 15

2:42:34seconds

2:42:35later you have 30 minutes of battery life on the pencil is there's the

2:42:40explanation because otherwise if they did it the other way when you run out of

2:42:46power

2:42:47you might not be within spitting distance of a lightning cable it's

2:42:54interesting because the assumption a lot of the articles get written is that

2:42:57Apple's an idiot and you're going to tell you why instead of giving Apple the

2:43:00benefit of the doubt especially these teams that have done such great work

2:43:03over the years and figuring out why they may have done it the way that they did

2:43:06and when you look at all the lighting and interesting all the stuff charges /

2:43:09lightning if they need data they go to us bc or something else but if it's just

2:43:12charged at all they're using lightning across the board right now and they're

2:43:16all enemies not Audi's with the exception of the Apple pencil so the

2:43:19first question asked is why does it do it that way . oh it's stupid apples

2:43:22doing this are you know they've lost everything is why would they make this

2:43:25choice and yeah you can 15 seconds get right back to work and also it the

2:43:31audience that much smaller package size and you don't want a little Homer

2:43:34Simpson head on the end of your pencil that you can plug something into it's

2:43:37got to tangible benefits to making the product that way i remember at the

2:43:42actual event itself maybe you were there with me i know we were hanging out but

2:43:46at the event when we watching the demo it was close to the end it was after at

2:43:50the hands-on area after the event there's a hands-on area and i got

2:43:55introduced to the guys the developer that that 3-d drawing app what is the

2:43:58make you make he has really rather put that in the show notes really really

2:44:02fascinating app it's like just unbelievable like you just drawing

2:44:07finger painting with industrial design

2:44:09yeah exactly it's like finger-painting combined with like clay modeling to me

2:44:13at 3d shapes and it's like someone that Apple was like hey you gotta meet this

2:44:18guy you got to see this app we've been working with him we were so impressed we

2:44:21brought them in early and had him you know get up to work with the pencil and

2:44:24he started giving this the demo but it was at the end of this hands-on thing

2:44:27and had been demoing it non-stop for over an hour and his pencil ran out

2:44:31and he just goes on hold on and he knew it would only give us a like if you know

2:44:36three minute demo so he didn't even charge it in for 15 seconds it was just

2:44:40I don't know five seconds in the port and then he pulled it back out and it

2:44:43was back to work and in an area where there weren't you know again it wouldn't

2:44:49have been any lightning cables nearby was off in the corner of the hands-on

2:44:51area it's incredibly convenient i almost always sketchy at night I used to sketch

2:44:56it all day every day when I was younger and now I have very little time so I

2:45:00almost always catch at night and several times i go to use the pencil and is done

2:45:03i plug it in for 15 seconds i draw for half an hour 45 minutes contentedly and

2:45:07then I just go plug it into the cable and then I'm fine right

2:45:11it definitely looks weird when it's sticking out of the ipad but you don't

2:45:14have to do it for long there's absolutely no reason to do it for long

2:45:17and it's incredibly convenient so its convenience over elegance and that's one

2:45:23of the things like apples really good at repercussions modeling they can they can

2:45:26look at the decision a decision be and what is the end result of those

2:45:29decisions and I can't help but think that if people writing of Apple would

2:45:32spend a few minutes doing that same sort of repercussions modeling we get a much

2:45:36higher level of criticism in in the Apple community the fact that the mouse

2:45:41charges on the bottom

2:45:42who gives a crap that one really gets me at who gives a crap i mean it's at AII

2:45:51it boggles my mind

2:45:52well the thing is again ask them what would you do differently while I put it

2:45:55on the back well then you have to cut a huge wedge right find allies and your

2:45:58fingers gonna hit that every time you so what is the repercussions of moving it

2:46:02to another place right I actually don't like the shape of the magic mouse . but

2:46:09you know as the ATV guys are covered in general it really comes down to how you

2:46:12naturally grip mouse and mouse grip is just not really a met amenable to this

2:46:19design but i can see why people who grip it a different way would really really

2:46:23like this mouse and if you do you don't want any kind of flat pump pump thing on

2:46:29the front of it

2:46:30I mean you need a flat plane is why the keyboard and the trackpad can charge in

2:46:33the real because they have a flat plane across the black the back

2:46:36exactly and I feel like the fact that they you know well then they could have

2:46:39put the hole in the side

2:46:40well then if you put the home side it looks like maybe you could use it while

2:46:43it's charging

2:46:44but it's you know going to be awkward and ungainly and they don't do it it's

2:46:49better to just put it on the bottom and said no don't use it while it's charging

2:46:52and it won't take long to charge and who cares that my grandfather again a few

2:46:56minutes and you have a day's worth of right and it looks no worse while it's

2:46:59charging than the old battery operated ones meaning i know they're all

2:47:02batteries but when you used to have to put triple-a batteries in and if you had

2:47:06a better get going to stored playwright it looks no worse while it's charging

2:47:10than the other one did while you were replacing the batteries it's you know

2:47:15it's if anything looks better because it's not missing a panel it's just

2:47:21ridiculous

2:47:21yeah and in it in and maybe one day apple will redesign and it will have a

2:47:25design that is conducive to having a lightning port that works while you're

2:47:27doing it but did that would not happen with this design and this design is what

2:47:31apple shape this year

2:47:32exactly and what they wanted to chip yeah I'm the apple TV remote being

2:47:37symmetric i totally agree with that there is one where i'm like i really

2:47:41wonder what the hell they were thinking and I know that once you start feeling

2:47:44the buttons you can tell that the volume button is is one big combined capsule

2:47:48shape and I've gotten you know I'm starting to get better that's three

2:47:52button is dented but i think you said this right is like the home button

2:47:54you're just used to having it at the bottom and we're not used to having a TV

2:47:57set on a home button and one has the word menu and other one has a glyph I

2:48:00think the whole thing is odd

2:48:02yeah I i really wish that I I don't have some I really wish that the home button

2:48:07was at the bottom and center just like on an iphone and I really wish it was a

2:48:12symmetric in some way whether the whole thing is wed shaped sort of like a

2:48:16macbook air in profile or whether it's the fact that it's not rectangular or

2:48:22something something so that as soon as you pick it up it's absolutely

2:48:26positively no thinking involved at all you know which way it's supposed to go

2:48:30and that's not even the biggest issue because I pick up by these other

2:48:33horrible controllers for my TV and blu-ray player and I they have so many

2:48:36buttons I can't tell what is up and down either side by pick it up and I have to

2:48:38move around but once i have it i can pretty much find things with this one

2:48:42because the buttons are symmetrical even when I'm holding it the right way I have

2:48:45too often double check is that really the story but is that really the menu

2:48:47button and home button at the bottom would in center it would make that a no

2:48:51brainer and they can combine that with the fact that just running your thumb

2:48:55across it to figure out where the buttons are

2:48:57is inherently a i was going to say destructive but that's not quite right

2:49:04but it inherently it makes me thankful it makes actions immediately take place

2:49:08with the trackpad like you can immediately start going fast forward or

2:49:13backwards or pause if you click x just trying to figure out is this the

2:49:18touchpad side or the slick bottom side but if you guess wrong and touch the

2:49:22trackpad side something happens to the video stream you're saying already and i

2:49:26know that this eerie button is indented but i have held down that menu button

2:49:29and spoken to it so many times it's now i have two good because you're not

2:49:35supposed to look at it it doesn't seem it's it's just it should be designed so

2:49:39you don't look at it yeah and it's not so i would I i will bet that the next

2:49:45time we see a new appletv that it will come with a new remote remote too can't

2:49:50wait

2:49:51yeah and i really wonder how much of it I know that they must have tested it in

2:49:55like real world testing scenarios like a dark room while you're on the couch but

2:49:59I just wonder how much of it is from the fact that maybe it was designed with the

2:50:03lights on and looking at it and also me there's so much to get ready like they

2:50:07spent so much time just Mike adjusting micro increments of getting the the

2:50:11swiping gestures right that you know even we who knows how much time they

2:50:14spent on on the buttons

2:50:15yeah but there's one where I feel like they definitely could have could have

2:50:18done better

2:50:19macbook one with only one port here's one where this is maybe the product that

2:50:25I guess it's the one that was are introduced earliest in the year where I

2:50:28still feel like we don't really know what Apple is thinking there you know

2:50:33was it an engineering constraint or was it a a statement you know like we just

2:50:39don't think you should be plugging things in two devices anymore and we're

2:50:43going to love shoulders answer on the talk show after WC we said we wanted to

2:50:47make a macbook that had no ports but he didn't say this but up until about

2:50:51October this year you couldn't inductively charge for metal the bunch

2:50:54of patents and a bunch of technologies came out late in the year that that'll

2:50:58start to allow inductive charging through metal but you had to charge for

2:51:00cable so once you have to charge for cable you need one cable and then if one

2:51:04you have one cable might as well be as multi-purpose a cable as possible so

2:51:07we'll use USB see that has data and has power and can do all

2:51:11other things but at the same time no one went and took away your macbook pro or

2:51:14macbook air so if you want a multi-port they would very kindly walk you over to

2:51:18the table on the apple store that has your multi-port wonder machine waiting

2:51:21for you

2:51:22yeah there's one the complaints about that are more like it's it's not that

2:51:26they took away again they didn't take away any of the products that were

2:51:29already being sold so whatever you did like you could still buy it's more like

2:51:33they didn't build the next generation machine that you wanted

2:51:37yes you wanted a retina macbook air and they didn't give you that right and if

2:51:40that's the same sort of thinking that you know would have led us to have you

2:51:47no floppy drives for another decade or vga ports for another decade which you

2:51:55know other companies writing you know making you know wintel notebooks will

2:52:01meet your needs if that's where you're thinking but Apple you know you're on

2:52:04the wrong side of the fence if if that's what you want Apple to do and their

2:52:08concessions I mean they made the screen so thin that they couldn't fit the set

2:52:11index for a decent web camera in there and they absolutely had some do some

2:52:14things were just physical constraints on that and something for economic

2:52:18constraints because they use technology that I don't see from the future to the

2:52:22sounds corny but it's a very progressive machine and things like the force touch

2:52:26trackpad it's cool but it also means the physical mechanism doesn't have to be

2:52:30under the trackpad anymore it's just logic and so they can make that

2:52:33incredibly thin which again translates into like lightness so I I could take

2:52:37this macbook and like an iPad throw in the inside pocket of my winter jacket

2:52:40and just did that the other day just went to the coffee shop with it it it

2:52:44has almost no appreciable wait now I so you know I i really can't see that as

2:52:49indicative of bad design i would see this the macbook is indicative of

2:52:54significantly different set ordering of priorities and I felt like all our

2:53:00friends have these handfuls of adapters on Twitter all time and I just really

2:53:04wanted you know that that's not the computer for us yeah it's okay that it's

2:53:07a computer for somebody else you're really it's okay if you want a macbook

2:53:13pro absolutely i love the 13-inch macbook pro it's got the forest trackpad

2:53:17to it is a great machine for anybody who wants to have tons of done supports and

2:53:21accessories and things

2:53:23I think that more or less covers my list anything else you wanted to talk about

2:53:30i'm just the the end of the knee the year stuff which is Williams Schiller

2:53:34and screw geez you're older and you kind of mentioned obliquely the beginning

2:53:38yeah well we mentioned Williams ceridian really have really i really think and

2:53:44you know this more than I you're better source than but it's really not a

2:53:47promotion it's a recognition of where he already you know what did you how did

2:53:51you put it you do the work first and then you get the promotion

2:53:53yeah there are so many people who are surprised that you like they just

2:53:55assumed he was an SVP already right right right like that that was an

2:53:59official the the part that maybe if we don't know the answer to is the Schiller

2:54:04taking over response or you know being named as being responsible for the app

2:54:08store

2:54:08yeah which I don't think is and again who you know we're not in a position

2:54:16that no in the number of people who are is very very few and they're not going

2:54:19to talk about it but whether it is seen as a BF a gentle demotion of it for Eddy

2:54:25Cue I don't think so but it did require I mean technically it did require his

2:54:30bio to be rewritten such that he's no longer listed as being in charge of the

2:54:34app stores

2:54:35yeah I mean it's really into and again it a lot of this is technical details

2:54:39like the app store still runs on itunes all those servers are not being

2:54:42physically moved into fillers office and the infrastructure and the and the

2:54:46backend CMS all the things that run the after that's all still itunes plumbing

2:54:50and that'sthat's not be moved over was being moved over things like store

2:54:54management and editorial which you know I just historically has been part of

2:54:59that is work because he was that's what he ran as part of the music and and the

2:55:02movie business in the podcast which have had editors and store manager since the

2:55:06inception of of that business right and some things like this stuff that's

2:55:10clearly developer relations has always been under Schiller which is with ilysm

2:55:17ndr an app store review

2:55:20yes appstore review it like it is kind of crazy and like you said I think it's

2:55:25really just the way that this evolved out of going back to $MONTH 2008 you

2:55:30know when it was like well we've already got the itunes store

2:55:33and we're going to do an app store we can build it on top of that and we've

2:55:36already got the credit card and people already have accounts and we already

2:55:39know we already have the content distribution networks we already have

2:55:43all of this and so you go from there to here and you're left with this scenario

2:55:47where the person who's in charge of developer relations which was Schiller

2:55:50wasn't in charge of App Store editorial yeah because he's not in charge of

2:55:56movies

2:55:57that's right i casted but it never would have been like that if it had been

2:56:00designed from the ground up as a new thing if they had instead of building on

2:56:05top of itunes the itunes music what was once just the itunes music store if they

2:56:11hadn't built from what started as that it never would have been under any Q in

2:56:14the first place I don't think yeah and it led to a lot of issues for example

2:56:18famously last year where extensibility came up from craig federighi is

2:56:24organization from software engineering great feature and it gets announced then

2:56:28it comes out and because when new features launch when a new version of

2:56:31iOS launches it's a madhouse there are so many apps to review that they if they

2:56:35do not crash and not detected have anymore they just go out and then

2:56:38anything that he's got past the review is allowed to be featured by editorial

2:56:42there's just there's no offense but it's a binary state this app is approved we

2:56:46can feature if we think it's a great app so they go through and feature all these

2:56:49things and that again is in Eddie's org and then later when things calm down

2:56:52everybody has time say well this is not exactly the experience that we wanted we

2:56:57didn't want anybody to put a calculator in widget space because they're so high

2:57:01ram constraint is such a big potential for crashes we don't think the average

2:57:05developer has the engineering but they don't know it's James Thompson wrote you

2:57:09know the doctor something that's just the average developer will not be able

2:57:11to make a good app experience here so we'd rather not open that up as a

2:57:14possibility and reject it can't have a rule that says if you're good as James

2:57:19Thompson you can write a calculator for the widget view and if you're not you

2:57:22can't the kid that's not enforceable and they don't know because they haven't

2:57:25made thousands of widget that they've made one or two internally to test on

2:57:28and that's not a big sub so then after a while they see that this is great it's

2:57:32not obvious benefits and they go and rewrite the rules and that might

2:57:34actually be it's a horribly ugly process and it makes apple look like they don't

2:57:38communicate and it creates a lot of concern for developers but it gets it

2:57:42matter two weeks as you have this fundamental change in the app store that

2:57:45otherwise might take

2:57:47whole revision of iOS before you get too yeah I hope though is that it's also a

2:57:51sign and then not just that it's a more logical place in the org structure for

2:57:56it app stores in general to be but my others sincere hope though is that

2:58:01Schiller because he cares about this stuff and I know that he does that he

2:58:06will make it high enough priority that it will improve in ways that I think it

2:58:12very clearly needs to improve you know there's there's some things that are

2:58:16like anything that's infrastructure based if people had complaints about the

2:58:19lack of analytics for the latter or how bad iTunes Connect work or the lack of

2:58:23resources being given to mac app store because they weren't parody that's all

2:58:26under any cute because that's his team that that does all that but app review

2:58:29was under phil schiller and if you complain about the rejections about

2:58:32developer relations that was all on him but then there's this middle ground that

2:58:36you who is in charge of upgrades and who is in charge of trials and who that was

2:58:40split across several people someone had to make the feature someone had to agree

2:58:43it was a great it was just a lot of confusion think maybe confusions the

2:58:47wrong word but there was no clear authority on that one of things that I

2:58:51would have been asking for a long time is just a clear vp of App Store now it's

2:58:54even better there's an SVP of App Store and a lot of the people now are aligned

2:58:58straight under underfill and hopefully they're still going to be a hard time

2:59:02you get a new engineer you gonna put them on mac app store when there's a

2:59:04hundred things to be done on the iOS App Store where all your money is that takes

2:59:08an executive was going to say this is important enough that i'm going to

2:59:10expand those resources in a business that doesn't make us as much money or

2:59:14they're going to say I know that we're making a fortune and everyone using a

2:59:18super happy and cranny question super happy and called clash of clans super

2:59:22happy but we have a legacy we believe that this stuff is valuable that

2:59:25quantity is not what matters anymore quality is what matters and we're going

2:59:28to make it our business to make sustainable apps for any developers

2:59:31because we believe that they're crucial that takes someone of a single person

2:59:35like a filler to drive through

2:59:37yeah and I really hope that that I hope that's a sign of it and that's how I'm

2:59:42taking that part of the year-end executive news i don't know what else to

2:59:49call it because again it's not really a reshuffling maybe the only thing that

2:59:52got shuffled is is the app store and even there it was really more than it

2:59:56got clarified that ok this is something that deserves to be

2:59:56got clarified that ok this is something that deserves to be

3:00:00under one person not split across several organizations and I think

3:00:06internally a Cuban would argue and II don't think this building you say that

3:00:10Eddie until have different opinions on things are different people but it was

3:00:13sort of tassili known that phil schiller if you cared enough about something he

3:00:16would be the sort of the final word on things and now it's official the same

3:00:20way Craig federighi has iOS and OS 10 Angela arias has a retail and online is

3:00:25Tim Cook has been consistently making an end unit desperate Jony ive has all the

3:00:30ID and hi10p book has been making apple sort of more combined more more clear in

3:00:36their organization and this feels like it's something that should have happened

3:00:38a long time ago when I needed to happen

3:00:40yeah and I wonder you know whether it's just you know maybe it was at the stroke

3:00:45was this planned all along was like the straw that broke the camel's back the

3:00:49weird Mac App Store signing you know that we switched SL versions and broke a

3:00:57whole bunch of stuff and was that the straw that broke the camel's back was a

3:01:01lot that's a lot of things that again when you look at in isolation that makes

3:01:05then you know they moved to a new certificate early and people were using

3:01:07such old versions of openssl that it didn't work with issues with that Shah

3:01:13Jahan Shah to whatever sha-2 details don't matter the no absolutely it's

3:01:20really just was never should have happened and it's funny i'm still

3:01:24running into it I just launched an app that a app that I use very infrequently

3:01:27just launched it the other day and I still ran into the you know now you have

3:01:31to sign into the app store again just to launch this app i open my macbook pro

3:01:36for the first time in a month and a half and none of that I had that i had

3:01:39rebooted and upgraded to all those apps were bailing on me the thing that that

3:01:44to go back to you . previously but none of these things are easier though I mean

3:01:47it eats I don't say it's easy but we can all say we want upgrades but at some

3:01:51point someone has to implement it or they want trials and then you have to

3:01:55answer the question is how long is a trial if I download the app but don't

3:01:58try to immediately can I try it later if I try it get distracted can I go back to

3:02:02it if i delete it and download it can I try it again

3:02:05what happens if I put a bunch of data and the trial runs out can extract my

3:02:08data that's my personal information and simple

3:02:10there's all sorts of questions that have to be answered but it felt like that

3:02:13that process hasn't necessarily been been started or at least not fully

3:02:17explored and hopefully now when you go down the line of those different things

3:02:21that people want from the app store at least maybe there's a chance that

3:02:24they'll be reconsidered couldn't say it better myself

3:02:28anything else not hit me

3:02:32Apple pay expand is it was the other things i think it's smaller in but it's

3:02:36coming to china next year which is going to be a big deal but I what do you think

3:02:41alright last but not least a year from now when we're doing this for 2016 is it

3:02:46going to be easier or harder or about the same i i i don't think it's going to

3:02:51get any easier i think apple is growing and it sounds silly to say that the

3:02:55world's biggest company is growing but they absolutely are and we were gonna

3:02:59get the iphone 7 next year is going to be a redesign the ipad air three is

3:03:04probably an imminent by now we're going to have whatever that forage yeah the

3:03:08new Apple others there's gonna be a lot of stuff and is there's going to be

3:03:11served we didn't even talk about jeff williams and his medical history is easy

3:03:14running medical for apple stuff to which could turn into something else entirely

3:03:18and and who knows what we don't know about Apple because they try out a whole

3:03:22bunch of different things they they have their eye on a lot of different

3:03:24industries i think next year I don't think we'll get the impact this year was

3:03:28unusual that we got not just to kind of new products but to whole new app stores

3:03:32and that just doesn't happen i don't think we'll have the same breath of

3:03:36stuff next year but I think we'll get the next version of all this stuff

3:03:39yeah my guess is that would be will spend a lot less time talking about new

3:03:43products that you can actually hold in your hand and more time talking about

3:03:46new integration software wise like it'll be a little bit more of a nebulous

3:03:52discussion but more along the lines of health kit and stuff like that and

3:03:58integrating the way that that all of these things work together for handover

3:04:04itunes and there's so much things that they could be working on guest mode for

3:04:07the iphone if they're going to switch to LED displays and whether they're going

3:04:11to need night mode for that because its concerns there's so many interesting

3:04:13things coming up

3:04:15yeah well thank you tonight there is also in it if you haven't heard enough

3:04:20about this year in review

3:04:21there is a giant feature at the I more

3:04:27urine review where links back to just about everything you guys did covering

3:04:32all this along the way I put that in the show notes

3:04:35yeah what podcast on what you want to do people like your voice where we're going

3:04:39to hear more i do a podcast with little-known montreal celebrity guy

3:04:42English called debug we just had an engine otra con Melton and their box of

3:04:47wine back on and they talked about management at apple and retention it

3:04:52would you follow up to show that Michael opted with us a couple weeks ago on on

3:04:57similar issues and to me that that you've linked by several times on that

3:05:01to me is one of the most interesting topics about apple now is how they

3:05:04manage their assets and how they retain their people absolutely a guy said years

3:05:08ago just plainly you know clearly let post Steve Jobs the number one problem

3:05:12facing apple is retention talent

3:05:15yep and I as the you know I don't think it has become a problem only gets gone

3:05:19bad but i think it remains the single biggest biggest problem you know and one

3:05:27way we're seeing it and I know that you've heard this is the way that

3:05:31project Titan is you know the car apparently so we think is taken in so

3:05:37many talented engineers from across the company that it's created internal

3:05:42conflict of come on you cannot keep taking you know people who are working

3:05:47on things they're just trying to improve what's already there are already you

3:05:50know there's there's tension in the company of you know the car people

3:05:54cannot take take all of our a talent you know going forward which is interesting

3:06:00because most people haven't spoken about the car in terms of a software stack yet

3:06:03that's probably one of the most interesting parts about it

3:06:05oh absolutely but it's also interesting to think that is Apple expands and does

3:06:09more products that retention can be a problem

3:06:12not necessarily for the company because I say you haven't worried you have an a

3:06:15talented engineer and she leaves from working on working on uikit going to you

3:06:24like example right are going to the colonel of the operating system for the

3:06:29car or something like that

3:06:30well Apple hasn't lost any talent but the you know I OS has right so it's

3:06:37interesting to think of talent retention not necessarily being accompanied why

3:06:40product but being a problem but a problem for just the existing products

3:06:45as opposed to the new and it's funny because with steve jobs in the iphone it

3:06:48was you can only take internal people not to trust anybody else with this and

3:06:52now with watching now at the car it's like so you can have some of them but

3:06:56we're gonna fight you on the others and right so i think that's super

3:07:00interesting i also want to thank you for sponsors we had for the show today the

3:07:05brower group who do the u bar and their new mirage mechanical watches

3:07:13hello with their hello pillows hello pillow . com / talk show

3:07:18automatic the smart dingus for your car and Harry's high-quality razors blades

3:07:26and shaving products a thank-you thank-you so much happy new year and may

3:07:31the force be with you