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The Talk Show

125: ‘They Buy a Hole in the Wall’, With Guest Horace Dediu

 

00:00:00   horse that you welcome I think this is the first time I remember yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/0">TS</a>]

00:00:06   definitely you know now that you had you know nobody yet still on I guess it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6">TS</a>]

00:00:14   you know you're legitimate doing you know there were some exposed to say last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/14">TS</a>]

00:00:21   week I should I forgot it's a little bit of follow-up from that live episode of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/21">TS</a>]

00:00:26   the show with with Phil Schiller so at the end of the live episode right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/26">TS</a>]

00:00:31   towards the end as I thanked him I tanked everybody and then I asked the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/31">TS</a>]

00:00:34   audience if the live video stream had stayed up because we we had tried [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/34">TS</a>]

00:00:39   something new we actually had that setup before I knew that that for sure is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/39">TS</a>]

00:00:44   going to be the gas we're going to try to live stream it anyway so I asked the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/44">TS</a>]

00:00:48   audience hated the livestream stay up because my thought was hey once word [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/48">TS</a>]

00:00:51   gets out on Twitter that Phil Schiller is on the show might you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/51">TS</a>]

00:00:54   overwhelming and some knucklehead down in front yard know and and then fill [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/54">TS</a>]

00:01:01   fill made a very funny joke he said hey these things are hard but I felt bad I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/61">TS</a>]

00:01:06   thought although i stream is down and then as soon as we got our stage my my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/66">TS</a>]

00:01:10   phone started going off and people were texting me and they were like I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/70">TS</a>]

00:01:14   watching right now live on the video streaming and watching right now live on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/74">TS</a>]

00:01:18   a video stream did not go down so I don't know who the knuckle head is in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/78">TS</a>]

00:01:21   the audience who said that the live stream went down and maybe there were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/81">TS</a>]

00:01:25   problems for a few people here and there but apparently did not go down and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/85">TS</a>]

00:01:30   were awful lot of people who who did watch it live in the same and I wanted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/90">TS</a>]

00:01:33   to the reason I want to call that out though is that the company that did it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/93">TS</a>]

00:01:36   as a company called hybrid events group and I'll put a link to their their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/96">TS</a>]

00:01:42   Twitter in the show notes their their twitter is a hybrid events GRP because I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/102">TS</a>]

00:01:49   guess they ran up against the lumen Twitter user names but anyway they did a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/109">TS</a>]

00:01:54   great job could be happier with them and I feel terrible that at the end of this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/114">TS</a>]

00:01:58   live stream that they worked their asses off to keep up and do a good job on it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/118">TS</a>]

00:02:03   looked like it did not stay up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/123">TS</a>]

00:02:04   went down but it didn't so well you know you know they have knuckleheads i mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/124">TS</a>]

00:02:10   the thing is there's always someone you know is not happy so there's always an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/130">TS</a>]

00:02:17   apple people are still likely maybe more so to complain right so yeah I guess so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/137">TS</a>]

00:02:23   I just don't know what would have driven some adidas shutout know that the stream [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/143">TS</a>]

00:02:26   didn't stay up when in fact it did and if there were any problems they were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/146">TS</a>]

00:02:30   minor and sporadic but anyway it was a lot of fun out at WWDC I was I was there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/150">TS</a>]

00:02:40   and I was sitting was actually fortunate to sit pretty in a pretty good spot I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/160">TS</a>]

00:02:47   would actually day they've managed I came in late I had gone to the bathroom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/167">TS</a>]

00:02:50   because I always tell you go to the bathroom real because it could run lawn [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/170">TS</a>]

00:02:53   and and by the time I came back out you know they had let everybody in so I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/173">TS</a>]

00:02:58   like almost the last person to get in and I'm wandering around near the front [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/178">TS</a>]

00:03:03   trying to find a place because sometimes people people in the front don't fill up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/183">TS</a>]

00:03:07   completely and and and I was actually kindly taken by hand by an apple person [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/187">TS</a>]

00:03:16   then sat next to a set behind baharon and his father and and so I had a I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/196">TS</a>]

00:03:25   like the 5th row and it was it was really the best species I ever had and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/205">TS</a>]

00:03:31   for bed that that's what I got for being late you know as soon as it was for me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/211">TS</a>]

00:03:35   it was a thrill to be to be in a great spot and and you know I'm previous shows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/215">TS</a>]

00:03:41   I remember sitting behind you that was funny sandwich behind a between you and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/221">TS</a>]

00:03:47   like rene for example you know so as always these great people you meet there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/227">TS</a>]

00:03:53   and that's almost more exciting than than the show itself you know just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/233">TS</a>]

00:03:57   getting to meet these people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/237">TS</a>]

00:03:59   yeah I have been to enough of these now it's funny because it's like it's dawned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/239">TS</a>]

00:04:03   on me that now I've been through enough of these keynote sort of a veteran [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/243">TS</a>]

00:04:08   a rocky and I but I still think of myself I still think every time I go to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/248">TS</a>]

00:04:13   believe that I'm invited to attend one of these Apple Keynote I know it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/253">TS</a>]

00:04:17   thrilling every time a pretty good three or four and it's it's still you feel a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/257">TS</a>]

00:04:24   little bit of a single every time and it's kind of feel privileged to be there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/264">TS</a>]

00:04:29   I've had the same experience over sometimes if you want a good seat it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/269">TS</a>]

00:04:35   actually advantageous to not wander in with friends or colleagues are you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/275">TS</a>]

00:04:41   because what happens is you may go before they open the doors and you see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/281">TS</a>]

00:04:43   people who you know like member I think it was you who took the picture of me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/283">TS</a>]

00:04:47   and Ben Thompson wearing seemingly identical to see me when I thought they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/287">TS</a>]

00:04:51   were there is they weren't that different brands but it would be very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/291">TS</a>]

00:04:55   hard for anybody I think you have to look at the label to see the difference [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/295">TS</a>]

00:04:58   so Ben Thompson and I showed up it at the Keno dress like twins and you were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/298">TS</a>]

00:05:04   kind enough to document that proposes to run into people who you know like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/304">TS</a>]

00:05:09   and then you go in the Keno together but then if you take a group of five or six [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/309">TS</a>]

00:05:13   of you you look for five or six seats and it limits sometimes going in just by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/313">TS</a>]

00:05:18   yourself or going to like you say you go to the restroom one time I think was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/318">TS</a>]

00:05:23   last year for WBC it at the keynote it used to be for years and years has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/323">TS</a>]

00:05:28   always been a ten ten o'clock start and it used to be that they'd let pressing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/328">TS</a>]

00:05:33   in very close to the end I mean sometimes to the point where people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/333">TS</a>]

00:05:37   would start like getting nervous and be like they've forgotten start without us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/337">TS</a>]

00:05:41   like there is one near you know the members of the media didn't get in until [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/341">TS</a>]

00:05:44   I don't five or ten minutes before ten o'clock but part of the new Apple with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/344">TS</a>]

00:05:52   Tim Cook is that stuff around alot more regularly in stuff starts exactly on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/352">TS</a>]

00:05:57   time and if you've noticed but Tim Cook the keynote started 10000 I mean like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/357">TS</a>]

00:06:02   this second but you know I notice a couple of the details maybe you already [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/362">TS</a>]

00:06:06   went over this with your audience but I the couple details when they when they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/366">TS</a>]

00:06:10   let the press in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/370">TS</a>]

00:06:12   they they segregate the photographers from everybody else they've always done [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/372">TS</a>]

00:06:17   that yet they've always done that but I purposes that you know they've got their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/377">TS</a>]

00:06:21   own little they've got their own little bleachers whatever wing and then the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/381">TS</a>]

00:06:26   other thing that's interesting is that then this kind of like this time when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/386">TS</a>]

00:06:30   the executives who usually sit in the middle section in the front middle so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/390">TS</a>]

00:06:35   the executives begin to cut you know come in and take their seats and they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/395">TS</a>]

00:06:40   basically they're mingling a little bit with each other and it's like you see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/400">TS</a>]

00:06:44   the camera guys just going nuts taking all these shots of the executives [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/404">TS</a>]

00:06:48   mingling and I i wonder how much of that is plans so that they have this photo op [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/408">TS</a>]

00:06:54   for for this kind of casual interaction that happens with with with some of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/414">TS</a>]

00:07:02   superstars of Apple if you will you know you see people would just like in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/422">TS</a>]

00:07:07   audience stand up and and you did I see I see johnnie ICN July see so-and-so and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/427">TS</a>]

00:07:14   it was funny to see how you do it seems so natural but I wonder how much of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/434">TS</a>]

00:07:19   is actually on purpose done that way to create the opportunity for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/439">TS</a>]

00:07:24   photographers to take their shots and have something I don't know that's why I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/444">TS</a>]

00:07:28   think it's definitely strategic I'm not quite sure what the strategy is though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/448">TS</a>]

00:07:33   and and about which site lines they're looking to give the photographers it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/453">TS</a>]

00:07:37   seems to me like what they want is they want the photographers not close but so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/457">TS</a>]

00:07:42   if you are if you're serious about taking the photography and even you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/462">TS</a>]

00:07:45   really want to bring a long lens and you're gonna be doomed in from a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/465">TS</a>]

00:07:50   distance and that you're not gonna get close but anyway last year but I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/470">TS</a>]

00:07:56   it was last year I you know was walking to the to the Moscone from my hotel and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/476">TS</a>]

00:08:04   it was around 9:30 so is about half hour before but I got a text from a couple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/484">TS</a>]

00:08:08   people they've already let us in and I was like oh crap so I was like you were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/488">TS</a>]

00:08:12   this year I was one of the last ones in and had a similar type thing where it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/492">TS</a>]

00:08:16   wound up you know somebody from Apple PR spotted me looking for a seat as they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/496">TS</a>]

00:08:19   come up here and I said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/499">TS</a>]

00:08:21   or something but it's weird sitting up there because when you're up there with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/501">TS</a>]

00:08:25   all the Apple employees they're the people who sort of applied at strategic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/505">TS</a>]

00:08:30   points and sort of try to get the applause rolling and applause points [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/510">TS</a>]

00:08:33   which you know to me as a member of the media's is not really appropriate it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/513">TS</a>]

00:08:38   feels a little bit like living in the home team crowd when you're up there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/518">TS</a>]

00:08:41   really i no i didnt sense that but I did sense and other events that they were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/521">TS</a>]

00:08:46   some cheerleading going on that I didn't see here this one but it is it's it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/526">TS</a>]

00:08:53   kind of interesting experience I i guess its very privileged that we have that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/533">TS</a>]

00:08:58   access to to the event that we do it and to each other and that's on the fact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/538">TS</a>]

00:09:05   that's where I i I asked yesterday how about we we get together and do this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/545">TS</a>]

00:09:10   right so yeah yeah that was exactly where this could set up so now we're a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/550">TS</a>]

00:09:16   couple weeks out and I feel like we're about to enter what's more or less this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/556">TS</a>]

00:09:20   summer doldrums newswise I don't think we're gonna get you know other than the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/560">TS</a>]

00:09:24   launch the imminent launch of a pop music there's not much going on you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/564">TS</a>]

00:09:31   never really isn't July or August so I'm just curious what you think overall with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/571">TS</a>]

00:09:36   a couple of weeks behind us what you think in hindsight of you know the WWDC [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/576">TS</a>]

00:09:41   keynote so I'm not a good analyst [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/581">TS</a>]

00:09:49   fans that way because I tend to look for under the under the understated and he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/589">TS</a>]

00:09:59   is there is there a deeper thing and I don't do well on the feature set so much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/599">TS</a>]

00:10:05   I'm not making a list of the big idea I'm trying to find where the small ideas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/605">TS</a>]

00:10:09   and the to me the the big thing this whole year has been around what I call [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/609">TS</a>]

00:10:20   schuman is all that Apple the idea that Apple is presenting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/620">TS</a>]

00:10:24   a new face a new definition of its of its principal operating strategy which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/624">TS</a>]

00:10:34   is really about not the algorithm hard to put a word on it because the the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/634">TS</a>]

00:10:41   the the dominant logic of Silicon Valley's that that power of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/641">TS</a>]

00:10:47   algorithm is power of the business and and all that flows from it and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/647">TS</a>]

00:10:57   somehow what I sees this shift where Apple's saying you know we don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/657">TS</a>]

00:11:01   necessarily believe in the power of the algorithm in fact we may actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/661">TS</a>]

00:11:06   believe in the anti algorithm and the anti algorithm is the human being and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/666">TS</a>]

00:11:11   the word I came up with his humanism other humanism is a word that was used [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/671">TS</a>]

00:11:16   to counter the notion of a world based around faith and so so this was a sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/676">TS</a>]

00:11:24   of maybe I got the timing wrong but there may be a renaissance for a period [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/684">TS</a>]

00:11:29   of time when when people began looking at that humans at at the center of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/689">TS</a>]

00:11:33   universe or the center of thought and and that that idea of putting man in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/693">TS</a>]

00:11:39   center was was big deal because the church was the dominant leader and so my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/699">TS</a>]

00:11:46   way of thinking is that I'm not trying to position against faith but rather [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/706">TS</a>]

00:11:49   position against the notion of the the all powerful algorithm as as the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/709">TS</a>]

00:11:55   counterparty to this to this idea and so what's the evidence the evidence is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/715">TS</a>]

00:12:00   number one that they believe in curation they believe in actual people making [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/720">TS</a>]

00:12:07   decisions one we've seen this already for years and years on the App Store [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/727">TS</a>]

00:12:11   that there would be someone making now so that means they're fallible that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/731">TS</a>]

00:12:15   means they're gonna make mistakes that means they're gonna make all upset [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/735">TS</a>]

00:12:20   people and offend people but with it comes also the benefit of judgment that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/740">TS</a>]

00:12:24   comes from the mind of an individual second piece of evidence Jony ive in all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/744">TS</a>]

00:12:31   his in all his visions of what people want he's making a judgment he's making [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/751">TS</a>]

00:12:37   a call he's calling the is curating essentially what it is that we want and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/757">TS</a>]

00:12:44   rather than offering every possible option they'll tell you these are the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/764">TS</a>]

00:12:49   best options we believe that so these are old stories the news stories bring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/769">TS</a>]

00:12:53   it even more to the surface are well actually going to decide how to surface [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/773">TS</a>]

00:12:59   the music that people should listen to or we're going to surface the generally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/779">TS</a>]

00:13:07   speaking media and so trust us with with our judgment with our tastes and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/787">TS</a>]

00:13:15   ideas so opposite to the algorithmic ideas that exists as the norm that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/795">TS</a>]

00:13:23   feel like somehow this is the beginning but also by the way the idea that trust [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/803">TS</a>]

00:13:27   us comes down to privacy trust us comes down to to being able to put together [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/807">TS</a>]

00:13:35   the the integrated packages that we think are the features that you really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/815">TS</a>]

00:13:39   need that no more than that and so this whole idea has been around too late but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/819">TS</a>]

00:13:45   suddenly springing up and going head-to-head with algorithm based [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/825">TS</a>]

00:13:50   business models I think that's a great observation that's exactly the sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/830">TS</a>]

00:13:54   insight that I'm looking for you from from the keynote like words it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/834">TS</a>]

00:13:59   about point-by-point critiquing the the performances on stage but rather trying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/839">TS</a>]

00:14:05   to suss out what the actual meaning was because I and I think you'll agree with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/845">TS</a>]

00:14:08   me here that I i think one of the more interesting things of today's Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/848">TS</a>]

00:14:14   let's call it Tim Cook supple as I think that's roughly you know I think it does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/854">TS</a>]

00:14:18   correspond roughly 22 when he took over as CEO and I think it's it's deliberate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/858">TS</a>]

00:14:23   and I think it is his personality coming to the surface I think Paul wants to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/863">TS</a>]

00:14:29   better understood by people outside the company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/869">TS</a>]

00:14:33   whereas before I don't think there was so much a date they wanted to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/873">TS</a>]

00:14:36   misunderstood but they just didn't care if you did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/876">TS</a>]

00:14:39   they they want they reveled in the mystique of Apple I think the mystique [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/879">TS</a>]

00:14:45   of Apple was there's value in being mysterious there's value in being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/885">TS</a>]

00:14:50   misunderstood even because at some point you're gonna get the aha moment that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/890">TS</a>]

00:14:55   were wrong and then those who become aware of it through their own discovery [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/895">TS</a>]

00:14:59   of that fact even more deeply and I think you write that is the the sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/899">TS</a>]

00:15:04   the jobs in that those of public relations reserve a distance and you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/904">TS</a>]

00:15:11   right I think there's the sensitivity more towards will you know maybe we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/911">TS</a>]

00:15:15   don't need to be so mysterious after all but but here's where I feel that there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/915">TS</a>]

00:15:21   still the mystique which is dead they speak actually plainly of what their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/921">TS</a>]

00:15:26   intentions are and when you see this in in Cook's statements like the product is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/926">TS</a>]

00:15:34   our North Star that we are concerned about doing good work rather than being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/934">TS</a>]

00:15:41   profitable or having a rate of return when he sometimes it very pointedly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/941">TS</a>]

00:15:46   attacks some Wall Street punditry other times you see this language from johnnie [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/946">TS</a>]

00:15:53   I've about does a product deserved to exist and we you know and and so we see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/953">TS</a>]

00:16:00   these trained very carefully articulated statements which which I would say 99.9% [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/960">TS</a>]

00:16:07   of listeners throw away as you know in one ear and out the other and it's just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/967">TS</a>]

00:16:13   as if like these guys are just using some kind of some kind of poetry to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/973">TS</a>]

00:16:18   bamboozle us but what I i my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/978">TS</a>]

00:16:22   I think perhaps my favorite thing to do in that plan analysis is this take the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/982">TS</a>]

00:16:27   lead role [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/987">TS</a>]

00:16:28   word out of the horse's mouth analysis of the framing of the three phases every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/988">TS</a>]

00:16:33   detail detail but they say something and deconstructing it and saying you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/993">TS</a>]

00:16:38   there's a code in here there's actually meaning full communication going on so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/998">TS</a>]

00:16:43   my take on it is yes there is a more particular there's more articulation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1003">TS</a>]

00:16:49   using using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1009">TS</a>]

00:16:51   coding coded phrases in this is Steve Jobs did need to he would speak from the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1011">TS</a>]

00:16:57   heart and so what he came out his mouth was was deconstructed but but he was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1017">TS</a>]

00:17:02   there was with the spokesperson and now we have simply a lot of other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1022">TS</a>]

00:17:04   spokespeople who are doing these types of very interesting raisings and and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1024">TS</a>]

00:17:09   take them and I i see from that to me that is what guides by thinking that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1029">TS</a>]

00:17:15   guides my analysis rather than saying you know what the number see what the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1035">TS</a>]

00:17:22   Prophet logic might be I always ask given their language how are they going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1042">TS</a>]

00:17:29   to do next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1049">TS</a>]

00:17:30   so they give you the example of Ikea people were asking a few months ago what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1050">TS</a>]

00:17:33   about the car what about the car and I said well here's how it would work that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1053">TS</a>]

00:17:37   out and I would say what the Johnny I receive about product with the sting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1057">TS</a>]

00:17:41   cooks a byproduct therefore the product that has to emerge has to comply to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1061">TS</a>]

00:17:46   these rules they have to have a meaningful contribution they it has to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1066">TS</a>]

00:17:50   be has to be better in ways that are that which Apple can contribute etc it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1070">TS</a>]

00:17:59   so I what I would do is simply take those verbatim no communication from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1079">TS</a>]

00:18:03   Apple and and used those as my lenses to analyze the questions that had so in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1083">TS</a>]

00:18:09   that sense that's how that's how Apple is it is different in my way in my way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1089">TS</a>]

00:18:14   of thinking because if you did that without with with Steve Jobs comments he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1094">TS</a>]

00:18:17   would flip flopping on a lot of them were simply like today I feel this way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1097">TS</a>]

00:18:21   and that they couldn't really rely on those statements as guiding guiding [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1101">TS</a>]

00:18:25   principles I think Apple remember once reminds me of what Tim Cook was acting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1105">TS</a>]

00:18:31   CEO he went on a conference call and he almost like stated a poem in the poetic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1111">TS</a>]

00:18:38   way what we believe in it he was like one of these like speeches buried in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1118">TS</a>]

00:18:44   conference call with analysts believe it and I i wrote it up and I said I called [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1124">TS</a>]

00:18:50   it the Tim Cook doctrine and this was before he was full-time CEO hehe you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1130">TS</a>]

00:18:57   know I wrote those down and I i I broke the lines up in the way that it almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1137">TS</a>]

00:19:00   looked like a pole and I said you know there is there's the there's the there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1140">TS</a>]

00:19:05   an algorithm right there about how this business works we're going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1145">TS</a>]

00:19:08   cross-pollinate I remember he used that phrase I don't remember a lot of it but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1148">TS</a>]

00:19:14   I can go back and they get up its doctrine in in in still in searchable in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1154">TS</a>]

00:19:20   the blog so that's the kind of guy he is I think that's been that was way back in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1160">TS</a>]

00:19:25   what two thousand probably eight or nine so it's it's it's very much a reflection [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1165">TS</a>]

00:19:33   of of what what you think of as to coax awful and so you i think part of went [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1173">TS</a>]

00:19:41   wrong in that keynote was the way that and I don't know if you thought this do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1181">TS</a>]

00:19:45   I know most people who have spoken to agree that the music segment at the end [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1185">TS</a>]

00:19:49   was was too long and disorganized but in hindsight as we get closer to the launch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1189">TS</a>]

00:19:54   of of Apple music and I read more and more about it I see that as the picture [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1194">TS</a>]

00:20:01   becomes more clear to me it was there it just wasn't the information was there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1201">TS</a>]

00:20:07   what I want I think we should understand about it was there but it it it was too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1207">TS</a>]

00:20:11   disorganized for it to be clear and so part of it is what you said about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1211">TS</a>]

00:20:15   humanism and not trusting in the algorithm and its and I know it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1215">TS</a>]

00:20:20   there and I know that they mentioned it a few times with the beat one radio how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1220">TS</a>]

00:20:26   it's going to be human selected you know there's a curated perfect word but there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1226">TS</a>]

00:20:33   was a New York Times profile today or yesterday earlier this week of Zane Lowe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1233">TS</a>]

00:20:37   who's coming from BBC one in the UK super highly-regarded deejay and I know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1237">TS</a>]

00:20:47   at this was mentioned in the Keno but it just kind of lost it because I was just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1247">TS</a>]

00:20:51   losing focus but they mentioned that their intention with this is not so much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1251">TS</a>]

00:20:56   that you're going to pick your favorite genre [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1256">TS</a>]

00:21:00   go go to station it's sort of like the antioxidant radio like we've got exxon [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1260">TS</a>]

00:21:04   radio in our car and I think there's like to 200 stations are 300 patients I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1264">TS</a>]

00:21:07   don't know unbelievable number but you can dial in to have an entire station [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1267">TS</a>]

00:21:13   that just Frank Sinatra and there's a gas station just for elvis presley with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1273">TS</a>]

00:21:18   this beat won their intention I mean obviously you're gonna be able to stream [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1278">TS</a>]

00:21:22   music based on your preference if that's what you want but if you listen to beat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1282">TS</a>]

00:21:25   one it's any new music that they think is interesting which is to me a really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1285">TS</a>]

00:21:32   interesting way to go and it is absolutely not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1292">TS</a>]

00:21:34   algorithmically generated absolutely that's exactly the thinking that I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1294">TS</a>]

00:21:39   this news release about and i think johnnie [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1299">TS</a>]

00:21:42   Jimmy Iovine was one of probably sold on the idea that you can do this to music [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1302">TS</a>]

00:21:49   and let me guess here and no no no no evidence but let me guess that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1309">TS</a>]

00:21:54   probably remember back in the days when they were influential DJs in the United [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1314">TS</a>]

00:21:58   States who pretty much drove musical taste who could you know who who who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1318">TS</a>]

00:22:05   could influence a generation by selecting the right music and playing it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1325">TS</a>]

00:22:11   and you know over time that became corrupted by by scandalous type of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1331">TS</a>]

00:22:16   driving driving and so on but but the job of meeting of the radio was for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1336">TS</a>]

00:22:21   generation to discover the music that that spoke for them and what what what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1341">TS</a>]

00:22:30   we're seeing that with the abundance an overabundance of choice is that there is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1350">TS</a>]

00:22:37   an assumption I think the Internet is that you can select it for yourself I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1357">TS</a>]

00:22:45   think that's not the case for most people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1365">TS</a>]

00:22:48   secondly you can use your friends as a as a selection criteria which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1368">TS</a>]

00:22:53   somewhat what to order does is you use your heat as a way to select what to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1373">TS</a>]

00:22:58   read it so there's that notion that you select good friends and your friends are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1378">TS</a>]

00:23:03   going to select good things for you but that has its pitfalls as well what if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1383">TS</a>]

00:23:07   you select the wrong friends and and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1387">TS</a>]

00:23:10   and finally there's the algorithm which is the idea that the sample what you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1390">TS</a>]

00:23:14   like and then we'll we'll give you will give you selections and all of these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1394">TS</a>]

00:23:20   where are the modern version of discovery what Apple is saying is let's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1400">TS</a>]

00:23:27   go back to this idea no it's an individual that we trust in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1407">TS</a>]

00:23:33   individual who who has supreme ability at Taste supreme ability a judge and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1413">TS</a>]

00:23:40   about things and in this again this is this is a reflection of the logic of of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1420">TS</a>]

00:23:46   johnnie I've in the logic of Steve Steve Jobs which said you know at the end of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1426">TS</a>]

00:23:51   the day we're going to decide what products are the ones we're gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1431">TS</a>]

00:23:55   dedicated so much energy to and we're not going to do a portfolio strategy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1435">TS</a>]

00:24:00   we're not gonna head your bets and we're not gonna do all these things we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1440">TS</a>]

00:24:03   gonna hit a home run every time and by the way you know if I were to say well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1443">TS</a>]

00:24:10   that's that's crazy it's only those two guys can do it it's it's it's it's it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1450">TS</a>]

00:24:14   not something that anybody else can do but look at how you would look at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1454">TS</a>]

00:24:17   way companies like Pixar able to hit home runs every time because they have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1457">TS</a>]

00:24:22   brain trust because they selected people who know how to make great stories and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1462">TS</a>]

00:24:26   gave them to authority to say yes spent three four hundred million dollars on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1466">TS</a>]

00:24:31   this project and 34 years to get it done and yet the they do it every time it it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1471">TS</a>]

00:24:37   you know we we we love him for it in contrast to a company that you know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1477">TS</a>]

00:24:44   old Disney who just you know put out a portfolio and say century they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1484">TS</a>]

00:24:49   playing with a spreadsheet in order to decide what to make and that's that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1489">TS</a>]

00:24:53   the difference [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1493">TS</a>]

00:24:54   instinct vs spreadsheets or the human versus the algorithm and this is what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1494">TS</a>]

00:25:00   surfaced I think through this through this event is how much more music is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1500">TS</a>]

00:25:04   going to turn into that for us far as I was concerned that there is a very very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1504">TS</a>]

00:25:09   different things that we've heard in the past from everyone else ya picture is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1509">TS</a>]

00:25:13   good example to because I think that they've been so open about so much of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1513">TS</a>]

00:25:17   their process it's not really a mystery according to them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1517">TS</a>]

00:25:21   you know how they are successful in yet nobody else can bring themselves to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1521">TS</a>]

00:25:26   it and do it it's like hiding in plain sight or here's the here's the formula [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1526">TS</a>]

00:25:31   but no one can no one has the courage to do that because it requires saying no to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1531">TS</a>]

00:25:37   things which are nearly proven to work you have to say that portfolio theory is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1537">TS</a>]

00:25:43   the foundation of finance and and and who would this my it's like if I were an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1543">TS</a>]

00:25:50   investor and I would say don't forget about buying a basket of securities just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1550">TS</a>]

00:25:54   by one company in the old at all your life [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1554">TS</a>]

00:25:57   yeah that would be the strategy that Apple suggesting they do as far as their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1557">TS</a>]

00:26:00   investments or that picture does in terms of their investments [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1560">TS</a>]

00:26:05   you have to have so much faith in that decision that you know you're throwing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1565">TS</a>]

00:26:10   away the hedge opportunity right you're throwing away the the what if it doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1570">TS</a>]

00:26:16   go right and and so so remember when Steve Jobs said focuses about saying no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1576">TS</a>]

00:26:23   and talk about saying no to everything else but the one thing and so that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1583">TS</a>]

00:26:29   what's so hard and and here you know when we think about it did so this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1589">TS</a>]

00:26:34   very deep into the psyche of Apple many ways but what we're looking at it now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1594">TS</a>]

00:26:39   through the through this question of products that are launching his services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1599">TS</a>]

00:26:42   they're essentially tipped at telling I think that you know we asking you to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1602">TS</a>]

00:26:47   trust us to act to make those choices for you when it comes to services and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1607">TS</a>]

00:26:53   things were going to give you and and and that means to it saying no to a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1613">TS</a>]

00:26:58   of things and many people will just see how dare you but but those who go ahead [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1618">TS</a>]

00:27:06   you don't have to buy this isn't like you know you're not obligated but it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1626">TS</a>]

00:27:12   it's it's the way that I think that is going to appeal to the type of audiences [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1632">TS</a>]

00:27:17   that are probably the the best audiences to have to take a break wanna keep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1637">TS</a>]

00:27:23   talking about music [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1643">TS</a>]

00:27:25   afterward but we take a break and thank the first of her three sponsors for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1645">TS</a>]

00:27:30   episode and it's our good friends I'm so happy to have him back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1650">TS</a>]

00:27:33   back I love this company it's our good friends at pack place you guys remember [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1653">TS</a>]

00:27:38   back plays online unlimited backup for your Mac what he do you go to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1658">TS</a>]

00:27:47   backpage.com you download their software you installed on your Mac and you get 30 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1667">TS</a>]

00:27:53   days free trial it backs up everything on your Mac everything just back to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1673">TS</a>]

00:27:58   whole thing up to the cloud their cloud-based server and after the 30 days [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1678">TS</a>]

00:28:04   you pay five bucks a month that's it and it just backs up your whole everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1684">TS</a>]

00:28:10   you have an external hard drive in addition to your internal hard drive to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1690">TS</a>]

00:28:13   back that up to everything they have over 150 had a bytes of data backed up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1693">TS</a>]

00:28:20   so far and they have restored over ten billion files for their customers you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1700">TS</a>]

00:28:28   can access all of your data from your Mac or from multiple Macs to max sign [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1708">TS</a>]

00:28:34   for two accounts five bucks per machine per month that's it everything's online [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1714">TS</a>]

00:28:37   but you can access it anywhere you can use their iPhone app I iPad up and get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1717">TS</a>]

00:28:43   just one file when you're out and about if you need to send the file to somebody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1723">TS</a>]

00:28:47   and you must login to back plays from their app on your phone go through all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1727">TS</a>]

00:28:52   of your files that are backed up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1732">TS</a>]

00:28:54   find the file you want and do whatever you want with it so you can download one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1734">TS</a>]

00:28:57   file at a time if you have a catastrophe if you needed if it actually strikes you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1737">TS</a>]

00:29:03   just go to your account you can just pay and they'll just put everything from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1743">TS</a>]

00:29:07   your account loaded up on a USB Drive and have it overnighted to you so you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1747">TS</a>]

00:29:12   can rest all 11 file any time from anywhere you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1752">TS</a>]

00:29:15   get all of your files on a USB hard drive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1755">TS</a>]

00:29:19   whatever you need twenty five percent of all of their restores though are just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1759">TS</a>]

00:29:23   one file at a time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1763">TS</a>]

00:29:24   its once you have the ability to get any of your files anywhere you realize that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1764">TS</a>]

00:29:28   more than just like back up a recovery from catastrophe it's it's really about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1768">TS</a>]

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00:29:49   it if you haven't yet don't put it off putting off getting it back up system in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1789">TS</a>]

00:29:54   place worst thing you can do is that when murphy's law will hit so just go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1794">TS</a>]

00:29:57   here go to Backblaze dot com slash daring fireball and you know you came [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1797">TS</a>]

00:30:04   from here and sign up today if you haven't signed up so far you're not it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1804">TS</a>]

00:30:09   it's a great service backpage.com Karen fireball [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1809">TS</a>]

00:30:15   music part of the news of the last week was this crazy to me the Taylor Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1815">TS</a>]

00:30:25   story right so recording here on Friday June 26 was last Sunday where Taylor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1825">TS</a>]

00:30:32   Swift wrote a blog closed post on her Tumblr account more or less [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1832">TS</a>]

00:30:39   calling taking out the task for the fact that in the in the free trial for Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1839">TS</a>]

00:30:45   music the three month free trial Apple wasn't going to pay artists for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1845">TS</a>]

00:30:51   music that cuts dreams they were only gonna pay a percentage based on the paid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1851">TS</a>]

00:30:57   account once the free trial period is over and Taylor Swift's argument was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1857">TS</a>]

00:31:01   this isn't right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1861">TS</a>]

00:31:03   you know the free trial is a promotion for your service we should get you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1863">TS</a>]

00:31:06   we the artists should get paid no matter what and it not only worked it worked by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1866">TS</a>]

00:31:12   the end of the day by the end of the day at EQ Apple's senior vice president in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1872">TS</a>]

00:31:18   charge of music among other things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1878">TS</a>]

00:31:21   was tweeting that ok I've called Taylor Swift we sorted out and and will be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1881">TS</a>]

00:31:27   paying artists even during the free trial period I'm kinda blown away by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1887">TS</a>]

00:31:32   that just by the speed at which it happen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1892">TS</a>]

00:31:34   and how it kind of in terms of being a longtime Apple observer that it like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1894">TS</a>]

00:31:39   public aspect of it that it took place you know from one apple executives [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1899">TS</a>]

00:31:45   Twitter account yeah I was I was watching it and i was i was bemused I i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1905">TS</a>]

00:31:51   personally I didn't have an opinion on it on one way that I think this is just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1911">TS</a>]

00:31:58   business terms terms and conditions that are in contracts are often negotiable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1918">TS</a>]

00:32:05   and sometimes used boilerplate that might not be appropriate for everybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1925">TS</a>]

00:32:11   and you know then you change it and and that's that's what we call negotiation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1931">TS</a>]

00:32:17   and it was to me this is just a matter of business but the I think the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1937">TS</a>]

00:32:22   noteworthy thing was you know your observation that they were so responsive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1942">TS</a>]

00:32:27   to it in such a public way and then fact that so they go she Asian took place in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1947">TS</a>]

00:32:31   public on on on Twitter that that amuses me greatly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1951">TS</a>]

00:32:37   I'm not outraged you know they refused to be outraged anymore about anything so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1957">TS</a>]

00:32:43   I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1963">TS</a>]

00:32:44   I'm a little bit just just reflecting on the age we live in that this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1964">TS</a>]

00:32:51   happening in the end it turned out very well for everybody I don't think this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1971">TS</a>]

00:32:56   was a big deal for Apple to even do it initially but they just probably wasn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1976">TS</a>]

00:33:01   something that they thought of this it was just standard practice you know that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1981">TS</a>]

00:33:05   yes it's our service but it's it's gonna grow your business as well so you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1985">TS</a>]

00:33:11   where we think of it as a partnership so we both take ahead but at the end he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1991">TS</a>]

00:33:16   said they said alright well will absorb that cost up front and pass it on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/1996">TS</a>]

00:33:22   because you're right you know very well off its money we don't need as much as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2002">TS</a>]

00:33:27   you do but it's it's it's just the way it happened I guess that's was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2007">TS</a>]

00:33:32   interesting same to me and I feel like it's also further sign that and I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2012">TS</a>]

00:33:37   Apple except I don't think there's any other way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2017">TS</a>]

00:33:39   with the success that they've had the size that they've grown to a lot of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2019">TS</a>]

00:33:44   times when something like this happens there's no way that bacon truly win cuz [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2024">TS</a>]

00:33:49   I saw people saying the next day on Monday that this is sort of makes Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2029">TS</a>]

00:33:54   look we makes them you know that they capitulated that they that they gave in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2034">TS</a>]

00:33:59   you know and it doesn't make apple look good that they scrambled to do this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2039">TS</a>]

00:34:05   whereas my guess is is that inside out that their take on this is why not make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2045">TS</a>]

00:34:12   it look like we're paying attention because we are paying attention right i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2052">TS</a>]

00:34:17   mean it's you know we saw the Taylors what why put it off white why why make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2057">TS</a>]

00:34:22   it look why wait a week or two and make it look like we're a black box who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2062">TS</a>]

00:34:26   doesn't respond to stuff like this we called her lawyers and we called are you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2066">TS</a>]

00:34:30   know consultants or so it's it's it's clear simple as we talked on the phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2070">TS</a>]

00:34:38   sunday and said all right we'll just you know during the trial period so by the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2078">TS</a>]

00:34:46   way they think the reason Apple is in the business of music anyways because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2086">TS</a>]

00:34:48   they love music as they say many times over and over again and again one of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2088">TS</a>]

00:34:52   these statements that people just goes right over over consciousness because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2092">TS</a>]

00:34:58   they say it all the time you we love music by saying we love music they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2098">TS</a>]

00:35:02   not just saying hello being the the dancing of edta on stage its point is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2102">TS</a>]

00:35:10   that they do love music because actually they think that that's a court that's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2110">TS</a>]

00:35:14   cornerstone of the business that is they want to be seen as a brand associated [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2114">TS</a>]

00:35:20   with music musicians and artists and creative people going back to think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2120">TS</a>]

00:35:25   different who did they put up on the think different campaign all people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2125">TS</a>]

00:35:29   are creative people fundamentally whether they were scientific artistic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2129">TS</a>]

00:35:32   cultural social creative people and so the idea is that that's what the brand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2132">TS</a>]

00:35:39   that rests on and so I don't know anybody who would say that Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2139">TS</a>]

00:35:44   benefits by being a tough guy with artists they come to the story there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2144">TS</a>]

00:35:50   they're coming to this to the table with music [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2150">TS</a>]

00:35:52   spending all that money on a music [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2152">TS</a>]

00:35:56   the acquisition of beads were spending a ton of billions of dollars in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2156">TS</a>]

00:36:00   company founded by musicians or music executive partner with a musician and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2160">TS</a>]

00:36:08   the whole companies like saying try to tell the world were on the way you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2168">TS</a>]

00:36:14   creativity to flourish and and we want our tools to be used by created people's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2174">TS</a>]

00:36:20   we are on their side we're on your side [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2180">TS</a>]

00:36:23   22 addressing their customer that way and so that that is why if it if they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2183">TS</a>]

00:36:29   called cave in to them they're just saying look we're just being overly you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2189">TS</a>]

00:36:33   know the fault is it is that will be actually overly generous when maybe a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2193">TS</a>]

00:36:39   cynical you would be that we ought to be much more tied tight with money and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2199">TS</a>]

00:36:46   that's not a good thing to come across as being being being restricted with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2206">TS</a>]

00:36:52   your with your with you our Terms you can be restricted when you're dealing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2212">TS</a>]

00:36:55   with another company and I'm sure they drive a hard bargain but when it comes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2215">TS</a>]

00:36:59   to artists the way you want to project is that you've been very generous and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2219">TS</a>]

00:37:04   that therefore sluts on also developers ultimately who are part of the ecosystem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2224">TS</a>]

00:37:09   and so I think it's it turns out well the only people who were gonna be who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2229">TS</a>]

00:37:14   are going to be critical of the decision I think there are cynics because I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2234">TS</a>]

00:37:19   think Apple's brand is about being being being confrontational with those who who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2239">TS</a>]

00:37:30   use its tools [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2250">TS</a>]

00:37:32   yeah i i agree with that and I think I saw some of that cynicism in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2252">TS</a>]

00:37:37   aftermath of this you know ok we'll you know we'll pay during the free trial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2257">TS</a>]

00:37:41   thing if it's if that's such a sticking point and I think the truth of it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2261">TS</a>]

00:37:45   that it's so little money to Apple I mean there you know the terms of leaked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2265">TS</a>]

00:37:50   and apparently this is fairly standard across the industry you know Spotify is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2270">TS</a>]

00:37:55   paying somewhere around the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2275">TS</a>]

00:37:57   amount where it's about two-tenths of 1 cent per play for streaming in other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2277">TS</a>]

00:38:06   words five streams to get one penny in payment which is so little money no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2286">TS</a>]

00:38:12   matter how popular this thing gets I mean just a little back of the envelope [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2292">TS</a>]

00:38:15   math but if you know a hundred billion plays is times to make sure you get this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2295">TS</a>]

00:38:26   right hundred hundred billion times in 2002 is only two hundred million dollars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2306">TS</a>]

00:38:37   which is a long you know it's just that they paid the three billion for beats [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2317">TS</a>]

00:38:46   and you know it would be a long time before they paid three billion in in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2326">TS</a>]

00:38:52   these just read this is just talking about the free trial period right once [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2332">TS</a>]

00:38:56   people pay for the $10 a month thing the payment will all come out of there is no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2336">TS</a>]

00:39:01   charity involved there's no you know the cost of anything everything will come [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2341">TS</a>]

00:39:05   out of the percentage of of what people are actually paying so it doesn't matter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2345">TS</a>]

00:39:12   how popular Apple music is how many people sign up for this free trial and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2352">TS</a>]

00:39:17   how many songs they play on it just can't add up to an overall meaningful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2357">TS</a>]

00:39:22   number for Apple in terms of what they would be paying so I think the idea that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2362">TS</a>]

00:39:27   end and the idea that they were trying to squeeze that minuscule amount of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2367">TS</a>]

00:39:31   millions of dollars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2371">TS</a>]

00:39:33   ultimately it's gonna be in the millions if not billions no matter where it falls [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2373">TS</a>]

00:39:37   the idea that they were trying to screw artists and take advantage of them in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2377">TS</a>]

00:39:41   free period i think is is it's too cynical I mean it's certainly possible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2381">TS</a>]

00:39:45   but it just doesn't sound right I think that it's exactly what they said which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2385">TS</a>]

00:39:49   is that they're hoping that they're gonna get so many people onto paid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2389">TS</a>]

00:39:55   accounts and therefore have like a real sustainable model for artists to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2395">TS</a>]

00:40:01   paid for digital streaming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2401">TS</a>]

00:40:03   that you know it they just saw that free trial as a way for everybody to sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2403">TS</a>]

00:40:09   benefit from the long term of having people signed up for actual paid account [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2409">TS</a>]

00:40:13   and that's the way it works I mean when you were when the point of free trials [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2413">TS</a>]

00:40:18   is that everybody who's you doing it because you want to gain people's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2418">TS</a>]

00:40:24   business and you want to get people's attentions and makes a lot of sense 22 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2424">TS</a>]

00:40:31   in this case because also there is a cost of giving it away remember this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2431">TS</a>]

00:40:36   digital media so if they listen to those streams maybe those dreams where I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2436">TS</a>]

00:40:41   never gotten listen to its not that they're gonna stop listening in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2441">TS</a>]

00:40:44   somewhere where they are paying and then start listening on this service or maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2444">TS</a>]

00:40:49   they will but Spotify in some some artists might see a decrease in revenue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2449">TS</a>]

00:40:55   for this trial period but generally again it these are these are very small [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2455">TS</a>]

00:40:59   amounts and I i I think this is this is one of those things that I felt that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2459">TS</a>]

00:41:04   wasn't I wasn't motivated by enough to even make a comment about it so I to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2464">TS</a>]

00:41:11   that the news in in in the way it happened what ya think so too I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2471">TS</a>]

00:41:18   definitely curious to see how popular music becomes but it's it's sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2478">TS</a>]

00:41:23   outside my purview I'm just not into popular music so I don't know that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2483">TS</a>]

00:41:28   been that that's something I'm embarrassed but they but then again they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2488">TS</a>]

00:41:32   get to a certain age one thing I have as as as as a theory about the human [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2492">TS</a>]

00:41:39   condition it's that music discovery is that he's a young man young man or young [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2499">TS</a>]

00:41:44   woman's problem would you get to a certain age you know what you like and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2504">TS</a>]

00:41:50   you've already probably got it and so very few people get are interested in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2510">TS</a>]

00:41:58   new music at a certain age and and so that's why the genres break into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2518">TS</a>]

00:42:03   nostalgia and you know you can get a radio station for every decade because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2523">TS</a>]

00:42:08   people want to go back to that time when they were young and that was a formative [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2528">TS</a>]

00:42:12   years where where that music speaks to them and by the way they think is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2532">TS</a>]

00:42:18   there wasn't such a thing in the nineteen sixties because the industry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2538">TS</a>]

00:42:23   will sell new and there was an idea of popular music was just recently created [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2543">TS</a>]

00:42:29   so the nostalgia would have been for jazz or 444 that sort of music that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2549">TS</a>]

00:42:36   nineteen twenties forget the names of some of those types of music bad but it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2556">TS</a>]

00:42:43   was a recorded and so people weren't gonna go back to to try to relive that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2563">TS</a>]

00:42:49   time with through music so it's a very much a phenomenon the 20th century I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2569">TS</a>]

00:42:53   loved one thing about the music events or the music part of the event that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2573">TS</a>]

00:42:58   I think didn't maybe rise high enough to consciousness was that video they showed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2578">TS</a>]

00:43:03   where they they narrated through imagery how music changed over the years and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2583">TS</a>]

00:43:09   think they missed a little bit with that video because it was narrated they just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2589">TS</a>]

00:43:13   had images on me but then there were used to you could read that narration is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2593">TS</a>]

00:43:17   like if you go back in history ever since music became a recorded product [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2597">TS</a>]

00:43:23   it's changed not just in the form of the medium or the media that was used to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2603">TS</a>]

00:43:29   capture it from vinyl 22 tape to CD but also because of those attacked time the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2609">TS</a>]

00:43:37   music in my life was hired for different things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2617">TS</a>]

00:43:42   the first record players were where higher to play music in the in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2622">TS</a>]

00:43:48   living room to the whole family and you probably have very few records and maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2628">TS</a>]

00:43:52   you actually dance to them in the formal way and and so over time you see how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2632">TS</a>]

00:43:58   music became a different thing and and when it became concentrated enough and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2638">TS</a>]

00:44:05   portable enough so that you could carry $500 thousand songs in your pocket then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2645">TS</a>]

00:44:11   it became yet another thing in the morning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2651">TS</a>]

00:44:14   became something you you you could get on the internet through a stream it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2654">TS</a>]

00:44:18   became yet another thing so what would you nobody would have thought in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2658">TS</a>]

00:44:22   nineteen sixties I would have these wearable headphones and I was go running [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2662">TS</a>]

00:44:27   with with with them to to use music as a way to to to motivate myself to my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2667">TS</a>]

00:44:33   workout or I would use these at work to to to isolate myself from from from the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2673">TS</a>]

00:44:40   noise in the background or or I would I would wear these are not on the commute [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2680">TS</a>]

00:44:44   that use case those types of uses for music emerged only because of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2684">TS</a>]

00:44:49   technology that was available at that time and so in some ways what they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2689">TS</a>]

00:44:54   saying is that we as a people we made one of those eras happened and now we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2694">TS</a>]

00:44:59   going to move to another era and we're gonna make this happen for the for not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2699">TS</a>]

00:45:03   just the consumer but also for the musician and so this whole story i think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2703">TS</a>]

00:45:07   is wonderful because it's about the evolution of music the evolution of how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2707">TS</a>]

00:45:11   music was assumed that what purpose it had meaning they had in people's lives [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2711">TS</a>]

00:45:16   and to the chagrin of many many people in the industry it seems as if music has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2716">TS</a>]

00:45:21   been has been devalued over time has once we've had so much of it and it's so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2721">TS</a>]

00:45:26   easy to obtain and and it can carry so much of it in our pockets that it's you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2726">TS</a>]

00:45:31   know we traded analog dollars for digital pennies and dimes and then and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2731">TS</a>]

00:45:37   then streaming pennies but that's that's the sort of the the negative spin on it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2737">TS</a>]

00:45:46   but the positive spin is actually we consume more music than ever we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2746">TS</a>]

00:45:49   surrounded by we have access to it we we can sample we can try new things and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2749">TS</a>]

00:45:54   what if you were to take the positive spin on it Apple would say the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2754">TS</a>]

00:45:59   conversation to the artist is that ok let us help you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2759">TS</a>]

00:46:03   surface this let us help you actually take advantage of technology that helps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2763">TS</a>]

00:46:08   helps you continuing your craft and there's a consumer the same to the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2768">TS</a>]

00:46:13   thing is let's find music that you wouldn't have ever found before that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2773">TS</a>]

00:46:17   that is so inspiring or delightful and really doesn't improve your life so so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2777">TS</a>]

00:46:23   that's that's why Apple's in the music business they come in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2783">TS</a>]

00:46:26   and say we're not here to figure out a new monetization strategy we're here to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2786">TS</a>]

00:46:31   actually make sure that music survives that music is is continuing to be an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2791">TS</a>]

00:46:35   important part of life I get I sound like like a pitchman for for the four [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2795">TS</a>]

00:46:40   beats but the idea is is is is that I thought about this for years and years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2800">TS</a>]

00:46:44   when I was thinking about where's your music and i ended up being what what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2804">TS</a>]

00:46:48   what what what is what is the job to be done music is hard to do and looking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2808">TS</a>]

00:46:52   through history realize that their drug changes and that you gotta change along [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2812">TS</a>]

00:46:56   with that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2816">TS</a>]

00:46:57   yeah I think that the idea that Apple should've seen some people speculate you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2817">TS</a>]

00:47:03   know they say why is Apple AAPL even bothering with this at all they don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2823">TS</a>]

00:47:07   need to do music they don't need to be this involved right they they've you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2827">TS</a>]

00:47:12   know you can you can why not just let Spotify and Pandora handle it all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2832">TS</a>]

00:47:17   they've got great iOS apps you can play in any of your Apple devices why does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2837">TS</a>]

00:47:21   Apple even need to do this and I think it's because of what you said is because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2841">TS</a>]

00:47:25   they want to because they really think music is part of what they want their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2845">TS</a>]

00:47:30   company to be yeah conversations I had with someone at Pixar and I said you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2850">TS</a>]

00:47:37   guys go into doing TV because you've got these great storytelling techniques and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2857">TS</a>]

00:47:44   tools and things like that when they make sure to the movies nothing in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2864">TS</a>]

00:47:48   between and they were like the answer was because we love movies and I had no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2868">TS</a>]

00:47:55   way to go I was taken aback I was like oh yeah of course it's here I am [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2875">TS</a>]

00:48:02   thinking like a technician or I'm trying to segment the world by what is possible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2882">TS</a>]

00:48:08   and and at the end of decision is like no we just love stuff and that's why we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2888">TS</a>]

00:48:13   do things if we don't we did things that we didn't love it we wouldn't we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2893">TS</a>]

00:48:16   wouldn't be good at all and so the formula Pixar's and just like we know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2896">TS</a>]

00:48:20   how to turn the crank it's like we really are passionate in the passion is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2900">TS</a>]

00:48:23   key and so in this case I think it's the same thing I mean why is Apple in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2903">TS</a>]

00:48:28   anything why shouldn't they just leave [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2908">TS</a>]

00:48:31   leave payments to someone else why should they be be trying to make better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2911">TS</a>]

00:48:34   photographs why should they be trying to make better movies with iMovie and even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2914">TS</a>]

00:48:40   though nobody is using it you know why they doing I work at all that's stupid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2920">TS</a>]

00:48:45   you know why we get into that and kill it kill it every time I hear is like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2925">TS</a>]

00:48:50   shut it down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2930">TS</a>]

00:48:51   shutdown Apple TV it's a failure shut down this is that I always think that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2931">TS</a>]

00:48:55   get into it just for that purpose to sort of make money order to become a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2935">TS</a>]

00:49:01   success by your definition of it they probably do too because they think it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2941">TS</a>]

00:49:06   part of their fiber and it's it's something that they feel that that will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2946">TS</a>]

00:49:10   complete them or just wanna make it seem like you know there's some kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2950">TS</a>]

00:49:15   artistic entity but it but it won't even ask artists this question is why did you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2955">TS</a>]

00:49:20   paint this thing and not show it to anybody so I had to get it out I had to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2960">TS</a>]

00:49:24   get it out and I don't care if anybody sees it in some ways you ought to think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2964">TS</a>]

00:49:29   about business this way because this is this is the the this is the antithesis [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2969">TS</a>]

00:49:34   of an analytic approaches actually the one of being entirely empathy based and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2974">TS</a>]

00:49:42   so the the butt but that empathy allows you to create greatness and it may lead [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2982">TS</a>]

00:49:47   you to that one great business as well but it is doesn't happen through a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2987">TS</a>]

00:49:52   deliberate acted happens to e-discovery act and so this is this is why when they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2992">TS</a>]

00:49:58   make choices that are based on these these these in stings it and then people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/2998">TS</a>]

00:50:04   say well it's not economic or it doesn't make sense for the they're stepping on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3004">TS</a>]

00:50:08   toes and things like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3008">TS</a>]

00:50:09   111 had an apple that that's that's the narrative but the other hand on Google [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3009">TS</a>]

00:50:14   nobody complains that they get into all kinds of crazy moon shots and they all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3014">TS</a>]

00:50:18   applaud you know if Apple's however even slightly off of what is thought to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3018">TS</a>]

00:50:24   the well-trodden path then then people you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3024">TS</a>]

00:50:28   jump up with criticism and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3028">TS</a>]

00:50:30   and all this is the end of Apple this is obviously this is not the airport a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3030">TS</a>]

00:50:34   there should not be in this etcetera etcetera hate it it's it's some people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3034">TS</a>]

00:50:40   do R&D some people do moon shots in apple just wants to do once to in you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3040">TS</a>]

00:50:45   know dole judge some ideas about what they think is important or education for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3045">TS</a>]

00:50:51   example where the education we're getting into health care why they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3051">TS</a>]

00:50:54   getting into fitness tracking are these old money making opportunities someday [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3054">TS</a>]

00:50:59   but you know i i don't see a way I could put that on the spreadsheet and I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3059">TS</a>]

00:51:05   care either it's about really doing things which they think stitched [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3065">TS</a>]

00:51:08   together into a fiber that holds up the whole thing and that's that's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3068">TS</a>]

00:51:12   business of Apple I think that's not it may be that is a new business of Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3072">TS</a>]

00:51:16   because Steve Jobs time you would have been more there would have been a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3076">TS</a>]

00:51:19   bit less diversity diversity occasion but it's still it to me this is this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3079">TS</a>]

00:51:26   because the fibers are so much broader and in there needs to be so much more to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3086">TS</a>]

00:51:32   support billions of or potential billions of users I think fundamental to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3092">TS</a>]

00:51:36   the culture of Apple the corporate culture and I definitely started with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3096">TS</a>]

00:51:41   jobs without question and it was deliberate and continues to have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3101">TS</a>]

00:51:47   unforeseen consequences and allows able to do things you may not know ten years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3107">TS</a>]

00:51:53   from now that we wouldn't have predicted today is the fact that they don't do a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3113">TS</a>]

00:51:59   P&L for each product or division or however you want to talk about it that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3119">TS</a>]

00:52:04   they're not set up as a as they don't have divisions within the company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3124">TS</a>]

00:52:08   they're they're completely functionally organized in fact they're more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3128">TS</a>]

00:52:12   functionally organized then then even before with Steve Jobs where where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3132">TS</a>]

00:52:17   Johnny Ives team took over at design of everything not just hardware design but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3137">TS</a>]

00:52:23   that with forestall ouster and taking over all of soft words that there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3143">TS</a>]

00:52:28   weren't separate you know there wasn't one team doing iOS design [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3148">TS</a>]

00:52:32   they created a new function and design it's a really deep in exactly right in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3152">TS</a>]

00:52:36   this is something I'm glad you brought it up because i think is one of the most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3156">TS</a>]

00:52:41   under under understood aspects of the Apple algorithm which is that they they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3161">TS</a>]

00:52:48   they they essentially said no to 22 division organization which which as he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3168">TS</a>]

00:52:55   hears the narrative I have on it which is that that's fine for small companies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3175">TS</a>]

00:52:59   effective your startup you are by the fault a functional organization it makes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3179">TS</a>]

00:53:04   sense so you gonna have a somebody you are usually a person is a function and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3184">TS</a>]

00:53:08   that's it I was not that many of you but as you grow make sense people think it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3188">TS</a>]

00:53:13   logical that ok now we have to divide according to where the money comes from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3193">TS</a>]

00:53:17   so it's if you know if we've got a product to put somebody in charge of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3197">TS</a>]

00:53:21   that product I'm gonna put somebody in jail if it's in fact geographical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3201">TS</a>]

00:53:25   because your sales structure is that way the new geographical segments or or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3205">TS</a>]

00:53:29   something like that in the you organized according to whatever means that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3209">TS</a>]

00:53:33   decide the money comes in it and that's the thing is that the money starts to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3213">TS</a>]

00:53:38   lead your thinking and and and optimization becomes a day like how can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3218">TS</a>]

00:53:44   I hold that person responsible to do the best thing for that for that particular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3224">TS</a>]

00:53:49   flow of money that's coming in to optimize it and so so that's how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3229">TS</a>]

00:53:54   divisional organizations involved in fact General Motors was probably the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3234">TS</a>]

00:54:00   pioneer in that area back at you know years ago or so so so that this idea of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3240">TS</a>]

00:54:06   divisional logic is is is pervasive in the world and it it also makes sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3246">TS</a>]

00:54:14   when you're managing people thousands and thousands of people you want to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3254">TS</a>]

00:54:18   able to create incentives for them to a lot according to certain goals and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3258">TS</a>]

00:54:23   so the Pyramid of that division is is set up so that everybody knows what the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3263">TS</a>]

00:54:29   target is and therefore there is tied to that in some way and so people know what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3269">TS</a>]

00:54:37   they're what you don't need to tell them every day what to do they'll have that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3277">TS</a>]

00:54:40   in their incentives built in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3280">TS</a>]

00:54:42   but that doesn't work for an organization where which is like Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3282">TS</a>]

00:54:47   which is functional because you're not attached to a product you might be one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3287">TS</a>]

00:54:50   day but not the other end and then you you're sort of you never even part of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3290">TS</a>]

00:54:56   the P&L logic is that you report some of that data and people know how things are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3296">TS</a>]

00:55:02   going and and so there's a communication happens through the knowledge of what's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3302">TS</a>]

00:55:09   happening right and so bottom line is that Apple's lack of a P&L structure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3309">TS</a>]

00:55:16   means that people within the organization will you have hard time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3316">TS</a>]

00:55:20   motivating them you'll have a hard time figuring out what their responsibilities [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3320">TS</a>]

00:55:25   are figuring out how they can navigate their own personal careers so that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3325">TS</a>]

00:55:31   can they can maybe optimize their own career because the single pricing in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3331">TS</a>]

00:55:37   signal low profit was used to guide you and guide you if you were in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3337">TS</a>]

00:55:42   visualization old so we have to be impressed by is how actually difficult [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3342">TS</a>]

00:55:49   it is to do what Apple's doing because it actually makes it running the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3349">TS</a>]

00:55:53   business really really hard and in fact it may cause some people just say I quit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3353">TS</a>]

00:55:59   this does I can't I can make sense of it I can't progress in my career because of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3359">TS</a>]

00:56:04   this and so there's a lot of heartache that comes with it and there's a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3364">TS</a>]

00:56:09   chaos that comes with it and so this is why every company against grows up in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3369">TS</a>]

00:56:14   the same stage abandons this logic and here's Apple which is no I don't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3374">TS</a>]

00:56:18   fifty thousand or more people is is still able to continue in that way to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3378">TS</a>]

00:56:23   really hard to put a head count on Apple separate their retail think you might be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3383">TS</a>]

00:56:30   right that it's probably fifty or sixty now it's it's explosively grown eaten on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3390">TS</a>]

00:56:36   retail has grown tremendously in the last five years it was i think is done [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3396">TS</a>]

00:56:41   melton pointed this out to me is the largest functional organization outside [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3401">TS</a>]

00:56:44   of the USSR me but the ideas that I sold that public he said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3404">TS</a>]

00:56:52   my head went like pop because I said holy cow that's exactly why are these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3412">TS</a>]

00:56:57   are the way the army the armies are with the way they are they're actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3417">TS</a>]

00:57:00   organized the way they are because they need the they need to be thrown out a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3420">TS</a>]

00:57:06   target there are thrown out a mission and we have to execute on that mission [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3426">TS</a>]

00:57:10   but they're very inefficient in terms of trying to do a blend of things and often [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3430">TS</a>]

00:57:16   even when you go onto the internet mission it's like it's chaos it's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3436">TS</a>]

00:57:19   crazy you know competencies emerged and then you realize that ok that's what we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3439">TS</a>]

00:57:24   have war games to simulate them in so make sure that things run effectively [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3444">TS</a>]

00:57:27   and so on and so I I got into this whole train of thought about whether what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3447">TS</a>]

00:57:33   would happen if the USSR me was divisional then you would have the head [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3453">TS</a>]

00:57:37   of you know the head of certain types of missions she would say Air Force Marines [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3457">TS</a>]

00:57:42   and Army we're gonna have we're gonna have a guy had a charge of attacks in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3462">TS</a>]

00:57:49   the Middle East and we're gonna have a gun charge of maybe Latin America and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3469">TS</a>]

00:57:55   Latin America would have under him Army Air Force and Marines but the problem is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3475">TS</a>]

00:58:00   that that person with gained so much power than they would start the Joint [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3480">TS</a>]

00:58:04   Chiefs of Staff we can't have these debates around the table and say you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3484">TS</a>]

00:58:07   know you know this is much more important to get more resources so so so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3487">TS</a>]

00:58:13   why are you you know eighty percent of the budget in the Middle East this year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3493">TS</a>]

00:58:16   mister president and and and you know nobody cares about Latin America all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3496">TS</a>]

00:58:21   they're doing is is is busting drug gangs you know I got a real fight here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3501">TS</a>]

00:58:26   to fight so so give me more money so then you get in 2011 general who ran the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3506">TS</a>]

00:58:31   region's only have so much more power than the other generals [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3511">TS</a>]

00:58:34   he could actually probably run you know do run his own empire on his own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3514">TS</a>]

00:58:40   make make make make so many decisions that he will become like the king of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3520">TS</a>]

00:58:45   Middle East impact because there was like that in Japan they had so much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3525">TS</a>]

00:58:48   authority in Japan after the war that he broke their constitution for them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3528">TS</a>]

00:58:53   practically he was a general in so that was a special situation but when you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3533">TS</a>]

00:58:58   think about it that way that this is this this this idea of people who have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3538">TS</a>]

00:59:03   have under them an empire this is the politics that this is the type of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3543">TS</a>]

00:59:07   politics that that drives organizations into all this all this paralysis all of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3547">TS</a>]

00:59:13   this mismanagement in all of this running off a cliff and stupidity that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3553">TS</a>]

00:59:17   we observe and and so because someone has that power structure and then you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3557">TS</a>]

00:59:21   can imagine this in Microsoft's world with those guys are really powerful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3561">TS</a>]

00:59:24   enough is guys are really powerful and they need all the resources because they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3564">TS</a>]

00:59:28   burn them and so in so he goes about when you take that away you depoliticize [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3568">TS</a>]

00:59:32   organizations especially with the military gotta be depoliticize a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3572">TS</a>]

00:59:37   politicized military turns into a object of coup and and this is why you have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3577">TS</a>]

00:59:46   republican guards and things like that which are politicized military's which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3586">TS</a>]

00:59:49   often end up really controlling the state and in a democracy that's that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3589">TS</a>]

00:59:53   that's unacceptable for that reason the military's in democracies are the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3593">TS</a>]

00:59:58   they are and this is let's long narrative but I i sorry well and not and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3598">TS</a>]

01:00:03   not to go too deep down the history historical rabbit hole but that's why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3603">TS</a>]

01:00:07   harry truman fired general exactly which very true that's one of those things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3607">TS</a>]

01:00:12   where I grew up and heard the story and I thought well I guess that's the sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3612">TS</a>]

01:00:16   of thing that happens but then like the older I get the more perspective I get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3616">TS</a>]

01:00:19   on it was sort of a bombshell you know to the us- public who viewed him as you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3619">TS</a>]

01:00:26   know as I said we have more time here he hit you not only have beaten Japan but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3626">TS</a>]

01:00:32   also he was in Korea and and so far north of North Korea and it is hehe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3632">TS</a>]

01:00:37   getting fired I mean there's so many people were upset that he became to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3637">TS</a>]

01:00:40   politicize political and that was unacceptable in a democracy in that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3640">TS</a>]

01:00:45   to me was was a great story to tell and and and i think thats where you gotta [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3645">TS</a>]

01:00:50   watch out this is the day to day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3650">TS</a>]

01:00:52   fears and worries that a guy like Tim Cook has to deal with it is he's gotta [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3652">TS</a>]

01:00:57   worry about and I think you know the four-star story had a lot to do with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3657">TS</a>]

01:01:01   whether that general became too political [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3661">TS</a>]

01:01:04   and didn't stick to his functional role in that case he had to be sacrificed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3664">TS</a>]

01:01:10   even though everybody loved them so you know it's the same story I think of him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3670">TS</a>]

01:01:15   as the truman yeah more time is gained from that the last 80 exactly but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3675">TS</a>]

01:01:24   thought you made cookies cookies the truman end and for so was it was a car [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3684">TS</a>]

01:01:29   right now that's the more I see it though it it's not just at first I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3689">TS</a>]

01:01:35   viewed it as sort of a penny more of a penny disagreement between a few [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3695">TS</a>]

01:01:40   individuals and I think that there's something to that angle but I feel like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3700">TS</a>]

01:01:45   long-term strategically it was about making sure that the institution of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3705">TS</a>]

01:01:52   whole company was was truly more functional whereas I feel like under [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3712">TS</a>]

01:01:56   Steve Jobs a lot of the functional nature of Apple came down to jobs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3716">TS</a>]

01:02:02   singular role in the company not not to say that the company depended on it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3722">TS</a>]

01:02:07   couldn't you know that he was a cornerstone that the company couldn't do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3727">TS</a>]

01:02:11   it that I think we're seeing the desert true but I think that the functional [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3731">TS</a>]

01:02:15   nature of the company flew through him and those subtle differences we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3735">TS</a>]

01:02:22   generalize that will use metaphor it we used to use allegory but the truth is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3742">TS</a>]

01:02:27   far more complex and so I don't want to die I don't want to make it seem like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3747">TS</a>]

01:02:33   it's so clear cut that you know this is this tells the story but I think for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3753">TS</a>]

01:02:38   example just as a as an anomaly as a counterpoint to to the functional think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3758">TS</a>]

01:02:44   there's any Q's organization because I dq I see it as an empire because he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3764">TS</a>]

01:02:51   got under him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3771">TS</a>]

01:02:51   services now called includes all the stores in includes i work it includes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3771">TS</a>]

01:02:58   the new Apple TV [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3778">TS</a>]

01:03:03   it includes products that are hardware software and services and that is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3783">TS</a>]

01:03:09   is could you know if you could spin off to a DQ you know it would be a huge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3789">TS</a>]

01:03:13   business would be a business bigger than that was on my opinion I could probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3793">TS</a>]

01:03:19   dig up some numbers that would show that that that particular innovation by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3799">TS</a>]

01:03:24   itself would be valued by the market far with a good chunk of multiple would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3804">TS</a>]

01:03:30   would be far in excess than what it is inside out but that of course that's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3810">TS</a>]

01:03:34   gonna happen the point is though that is an exception to roll and and there is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3814">TS</a>]

01:03:38   good reason for that because there's this kind of like what do you do with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3818">TS</a>]

01:03:41   these pieces problem and so and so it's always there there there are put under [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3821">TS</a>]

01:03:47   him and so if it happens there's a reorg [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3827">TS</a>]

01:03:51   I would be surprised because something may just get out of control there I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3831">TS</a>]

01:03:55   don't know I'm not prejudicing hopefully I think what's what's so funny with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3835">TS</a>]

01:03:59   apple today it would be it would be almost impossible to reorganize the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3839">TS</a>]

01:04:03   company I think what they could do is is there could be like departures [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3843">TS</a>]

01:04:08   individuals could depart maybe just simply to enjoy their retirement enjoy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3848">TS</a>]

01:04:13   the you know the well that they've accumulated or it could be another [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3853">TS</a>]

01:04:19   dispute arises where there's a personality conflict between two senior [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3859">TS</a>]

01:04:23   vice president who need to be working together and can get along but I to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3863">TS</a>]

01:04:28   it would just be it's almost more like running like sports you know like pick [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3868">TS</a>]

01:04:36   any sport you know you talk about soccer like well we're gonna have to change [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3876">TS</a>]

01:04:41   goalkeepers thats but it's still not really a 25 you're absolutely right i i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3881">TS</a>]

01:04:50   i just i i literally on the spot thought of them with the reorg idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3890">TS</a>]

01:04:56   on reflection I think you're right it's not gonna be what we think of as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3896">TS</a>]

01:05:00   recorded by just be that that maybe they'll cars maybe they could do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3900">TS</a>]

01:05:05   something with with services that's gonna grows to such an extent that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3905">TS</a>]

01:05:11   may make create that as a separate thing I don't know I'm just being completely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3911">TS</a>]

01:05:17   speculative let me take another break here take a deep breath and thank our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3917">TS</a>]

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01:05:26   fracture it is sad sad I honestly think it is that so many of our photos that we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3926">TS</a>]

01:05:35   take today people everybody almost everybody I know takes more photographs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3935">TS</a>]

01:05:39   today than they ever have before in their lives and it's only only becoming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3939">TS</a>]

01:05:44   more prevalent and it's easy to see why it's because we all have really good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3944">TS</a>]

01:05:49   cameras with us all the time like two or three seconds away from being ready to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3949">TS</a>]

01:05:54   snap a photo and yet so many of the photos that we take never really leave [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3954">TS</a>]

01:06:03   the devices that we view them on their just digital things that we see on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3963">TS</a>]

01:06:08   digital devices when we look for them and I think it's actually true true for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3968">TS</a>]

01:06:14   me personally as somebody who used a tractor and has fractured Princeton and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3974">TS</a>]

01:06:17   you know talks about them all the time here that I've actually got let fewer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3977">TS</a>]

01:06:22   printed photos now when I take more photos than I did ten eleven twelve [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3982">TS</a>]

01:06:26   years ago when I used to shoot on film and had to have printed everything made [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3986">TS</a>]

01:06:32   there's something magical about a printed photographs when it's something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3992">TS</a>]

01:06:36   that means something to you that's where fractures Epson fracture prints your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/3996">TS</a>]

01:06:41   photos directly on pure glass you pick your favorite photos that you've taken [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4001">TS</a>]

01:06:46   you send them to fracture and the prints come back to you directly on class not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4006">TS</a>]

01:06:52   piece of paper attempts to class they just print right on the glass I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4012">TS</a>]

01:06:55   know what kind of food do they used to do it but it looks great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4015">TS</a>]

01:06:59   the Prince come back to you they've got a foam back right on the glass that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4019">TS</a>]

01:07:03   ready to mount on the wall or ready to be used its genius ingenious packaging [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4023">TS</a>]

01:07:09   you can use to mounted on the wall or door propped up on a shelf or your desk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4029">TS</a>]

01:07:14   or the man told everyone to put it up right out of the box so you don't need [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4034">TS</a>]

01:07:20   to put them in a frame you don't need to buy a separate frame the picture itself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4040">TS</a>]

01:07:23   is all you need to mounted on the wall hang it up really looks great and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4043">TS</a>]

01:07:29   gives your photos the analog beauty that they deserve so go check them out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4049">TS</a>]

01:07:34   take some photos or take some of your recent photos pick a few that are your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4054">TS</a>]

01:07:39   favorite go-to fracture me.com fracture me.com that's their website and use the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4059">TS</a>]

01:07:47   code sharing fireball use that code and you'll get 15% off your first order from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4067">TS</a>]

01:07:54   practice their prices are already great but you can save 15% using the code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4074">TS</a>]

01:07:58   during fireballs Mike my text tractor so speaking about not putting everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4078">TS</a>]

01:08:09   off and the tone P&L profit loss and looking at things you know functionally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4089">TS</a>]

01:08:13   you you wrote a recent piece i Simcoe about maps and this sort of well more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4093">TS</a>]

01:08:22   like one factor how much does it cost to run a top-notch mapping service per year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4102">TS</a>]

01:08:26   and you came to the conclusion that it costs about two billion dollars a year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4106">TS</a>]

01:08:32   yeah I think it used to be one but it's closer to two now and I think that when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4112">TS</a>]

01:08:38   I got that figure by looking the financials then that Nokia was reporting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4118">TS</a>]

01:08:42   for its here product or product here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4122">TS</a>]

01:08:45   division which was an acquisition back in 2007 the year the iPhone launched [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4125">TS</a>]

01:08:52   Nokia spend a seven billion dollars are you resort to get on the acquisition of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4132">TS</a>]

01:08:58   NAVTEQ which was at the time probably the best map service in the world and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4138">TS</a>]

01:09:04   mean that because I was using maps in 2005 and six on a mobile device [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4144">TS</a>]

01:09:10   I have flown back to the free iPhone dark ages and I remember using Google [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4150">TS</a>]

01:09:19   Maps back then it was horrifically bad I think Google Google Maps was laughably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4159">TS</a>]

01:09:28   bad compared to paid services or or things you could purchase by you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4168">TS</a>]

01:09:34   download the entire maps like you November over TomTom and Garmin those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4174">TS</a>]

01:09:41   guys had a dollar or if they had a an embedded mapped in their in their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4181">TS</a>]

01:09:45   hardware or if you had a car system like like you would have with high-end car [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4185">TS</a>]

01:09:52   back in the day you pay $34,000 for the on-board navigation which was a DVD [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4192">TS</a>]

01:09:58   usually that was you know that was upgradeable that's exactly why I we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4198">TS</a>]

01:10:03   bought the car we have bought in 2006 still driving it and I think we turned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4203">TS</a>]

01:10:09   down it was a four thousand dollar upgrade to get onboard navigation which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4209">TS</a>]

01:10:15   in hindsight it for a couple of years there were my wife gave me a hard time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4215">TS</a>]

01:10:18   about that and in hindsight really looks like a very good decision and that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4218">TS</a>]

01:10:23   time you could get a handheld navigator and you or you could get like very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4223">TS</a>]

01:10:28   rarely and these were only in some Nokia devices that you could get usually was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4228">TS</a>]

01:10:33   in sdcard that had mapped data for the region you are in and you could opt out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4233">TS</a>]

01:10:37   in very few actually I think were directly over the year Google started [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4237">TS</a>]

01:10:43   offering over the air but again it was horrible I remember using it and those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4243">TS</a>]

01:10:46   years I was in I was in Boston I was actually working at his offices over and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4246">TS</a>]

01:10:51   by 128 and I remember using it every afternoon going home I would open it up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4251">TS</a>]

01:10:58   on a Nokia sort of BlackBerry Style phone and I would have this tiny square [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4258">TS</a>]

01:11:04   screen and pop in through the through the online through the story through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4264">TS</a>]

01:11:09   through the network at the time which would have been probably to G or two and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4269">TS</a>]

01:11:14   a half G and I would get to see my route home and I would look for the traffic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4274">TS</a>]

01:11:19   data there was there was there was really only value for me is like how bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4279">TS</a>]

01:11:23   was the traffic when I would have when I would drive home but that was it there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4283">TS</a>]

01:11:27   was no really discovering where to go eat or anything like that that was maps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4287">TS</a>]

01:11:32   based so at that time at that time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4292">TS</a>]

01:11:38   Nokia thought we've gotta spend seven billion dollars of maps and the thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4298">TS</a>]

01:11:43   about Nokia throughout the years I was there is that they were really really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4303">TS</a>]

01:11:47   forward-thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4307">TS</a>]

01:11:49   thought about smartphones ten years before anybody else did they start about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4309">TS</a>]

01:11:53   maps 10 years before they got good enough and if anything they just wear [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4313">TS</a>]

01:11:59   too early on everything and and then focus on the things that needed to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4319">TS</a>]

01:12:04   improved the rather they said ok we buy the assets over we commit to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4324">TS</a>]

01:12:08   strategy and they they they thought that was enough they didn't have the ability [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4328">TS</a>]

01:12:13   to really really get there get this thing sorted out so so so long story [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4333">TS</a>]

01:12:19   short so so they by nafta 44 billions of dollars and then you they would report [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4339">TS</a>]

01:12:25   their revenues and they would report their costs so that we can work out just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4345">TS</a>]

01:12:30   how much they were spending to maintain that seven billion dollar asset to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4350">TS</a>]

01:12:35   maintain the data on it and of course nowadays people would say that here maps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4355">TS</a>]

01:12:40   is not as good by the way here the maps business did have revenues for them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4360">TS</a>]

01:12:44   because they were selling these datasets to the car makers they were selling them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4364">TS</a>]

01:12:48   to Mercedes and Porsche ever to put on those DVDs in their cars and put in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4368">TS</a>]

01:12:54   sdcard that you weren't willing to buy that service so that makes business was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4374">TS</a>]

01:13:00   a real business it was a driven business it wasn't based on on selling devices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4380">TS</a>]

01:13:05   you was based on selling the actual the hard earned data and they had four [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4385">TS</a>]

01:13:10   hundred people who every day got into cars to go collect data by driving [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4390">TS</a>]

01:13:17   around and they would also source data from satellites source they have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4397">TS</a>]

01:13:21   satellite companies that outsource data from geo position in though there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4401">TS</a>]

01:13:26   there's this huge datasets that mostly were not consumer-based write these were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4406">TS</a>]

01:13:30   for companies and and so so this was an amazingly valuable idea that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4410">TS</a>]

01:13:36   after going to be someday very important in mobile and that maps therefore the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4416">TS</a>]

01:13:40   Nokia Software by owning that acid and there weren't very many others they were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4420">TS</a>]

01:13:46   coming with the baggage of hardware like to buy Garmin and TomTom and so is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4426">TS</a>]

01:13:51   they said those of pure pure said we're gonna buy it we're gonna be the best map [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4431">TS</a>]

01:13:55   service in the world and at that time would argue yes they were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4435">TS</a>]

01:13:58   Google was a joke and and the funny thing to me was a few years later when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4438">TS</a>]

01:14:03   finally Apple gets into the match businesspeople say that their joke and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4443">TS</a>]

01:14:09   I just remembered Google I didn't think that that was irrelevant argument [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4449">TS</a>]

01:14:14   because I remember that Google did better so the only question in my mind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4454">TS</a>]

01:14:17   was not are they any good at the launch of course they're not good at the launch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4457">TS</a>]

01:14:22   just getting started on something that people been doing for twenty years and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4462">TS</a>]

01:14:26   Google itself had been doing for seventy years or six years and of course Google [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4466">TS</a>]

01:14:30   had a six-year leading of course they gonna be better so let's look at it six [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4470">TS</a>]

01:14:33   years from now it shows and so I knew that they would have to spend a ton of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4473">TS</a>]

01:14:38   money that that that that just to maintain the here Maps service for nafta [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4478">TS</a>]

01:14:44   cost a billion dollars a year so you know that obtained at that the knowledge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4484">TS</a>]

01:14:49   that the catch up you'd have to be spending more than that now no one's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4489">TS</a>]

01:14:53   confirmed or denied the two billion figure but I i you know i i would say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4493">TS</a>]

01:14:57   that's credible the the amount of effort going in is at that level and so that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4497">TS</a>]

01:15:04   all I got the number I I will put a link to to the piece in the show note I know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4504">TS</a>]

01:15:08   how and say that I never get to but I've already got it in my notes so it'll be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4508">TS</a>]

01:15:11   there but you make a good case for why it's I think in the ballpark it's got to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4511">TS</a>]

01:15:15   be pretty close and there is a lot is just a lot of ongoing legwork to run a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4515">TS</a>]

01:15:20   modern mapping service I mean you need those drivers out on the streets taking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4520">TS</a>]

01:15:26   the pictures of the stores and I'll give you i'll give you another example and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4526">TS</a>]

01:15:30   this is from a friend of mine who have made it actually a blast like medals at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4530">TS</a>]

01:15:35   all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4535">TS</a>]

01:15:36   talkable show in Ireland and in hebron a service in prague is america he ran a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4536">TS</a>]

01:15:45   service in prague Germany also Prague Czech Republic search [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4545">TS</a>]

01:15:48   where where she would college students to walk around the city and make notes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4548">TS</a>]

01:15:58   about the opening times of every restaurant every place you could walk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4558">TS</a>]

01:16:03   far everything you could walk into so the address the details about you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4563">TS</a>]

01:16:09   what was on the door that that that gave you information that was about that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4569">TS</a>]

01:16:14   establishment and so what he would accurate gate that they don't overlaid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4574">TS</a>]

01:16:18   on public open source maps and provide that as a tourist Atlas so so he would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4578">TS</a>]

01:16:25   let you download so you could download this and not pay roaming charges [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4585">TS</a>]

01:16:30   surveyed imagine you're visiting from Italy to prague and you're in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4590">TS</a>]

01:16:33   Italian in you you get the papal prague from him and the law gives you this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4593">TS</a>]

01:16:38   level of detail now the reason he was in business is because Google Maps would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4598">TS</a>]

01:16:42   have cost you a lot in roaming fees so in europe it made sense that you can do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4602">TS</a>]

01:16:45   you could do every city this way but then the real amazing story he told me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4605">TS</a>]

01:16:49   was that Google came to him and said why don't you just license this all this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4609">TS</a>]

01:16:54   data to us they didn't have a Google didn't have this data so so he did a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4614">TS</a>]

01:16:59   deal with Google where he's you know and he felt he had he had been wronged in it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4619">TS</a>]

01:17:03   because they offered him like we'll just put your name down at the bottom of each [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4623">TS</a>]

01:17:06   page we won't pay you anything will put your name down the bottom and so they'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4626">TS</a>]

01:17:10   be a link so you gonna get alot of business from from being exposed via [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4630">TS</a>]

01:17:15   Google Maps and it turned out the dollar's worth very much so he felt that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4635">TS</a>]

01:17:20   you know that there was a bad deal got out of it later but but but you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4640">TS</a>]

01:17:24   what ideas did that Google itself in order to to to get this information does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4644">TS</a>]

01:17:30   all kinds of deals rated either sense people on its own or in this case [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4650">TS</a>]

01:17:35   through another person who did all this work you know has college students do it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4655">TS</a>]

01:17:40   because college students are fairly cheap and they were going around by foot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4660">TS</a>]

01:17:43   anyway walking around the city thinking they're they're they're discovering the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4663">TS</a>]

01:17:47   world and by the way here you gonna be paid a couple of dollars if you if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4667">TS</a>]

01:17:50   if you jot down this data for every time he passes a doorway and so this this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4670">TS</a>]

01:17:55   model of really low level crowdsourcing data is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4675">TS</a>]

01:18:00   truly labor-intensive and it ends up costing a lot of money the cleaning it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4680">TS</a>]

01:18:04   up and so it said it all to India to have it to have it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4684">TS</a>]

01:18:08   rationalized and and and fixed and all that stuff so there's a huge amount of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4688">TS</a>]

01:18:13   effort there as well and then they then they go off and into 3d then they go off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4693">TS</a>]

01:18:18   and do the underground internal maps and on and on it goes the demands of these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4698">TS</a>]

01:18:23   maps are suddenly we want to have every single thing we want flyovers we want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4703">TS</a>]

01:18:28   you know vector maps we don't have maps right so all that adds a huge amount of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4708">TS</a>]

01:18:36   cost and and and so if this is the game you wonder then why are they doing it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4716">TS</a>]

01:18:43   because you've gotta make the money back somehow and get stuff to understand the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4723">TS</a>]

01:18:49   logic that that that that exists besides the ones we see now which are basically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4729">TS</a>]

01:18:55   Google Maps advertising based and Apple essentially saying that our devices are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4735">TS</a>]

01:19:00   worth it and so I asked the question what else can we expect for business [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4740">TS</a>]

01:19:06   models as far as maps are concerned into the future and I lead to you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4746">TS</a>]

01:19:10   thinking about transportation and vehicles [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4750">TS</a>]

01:19:14   yeah well that's part of your analysis and I love this I never really thought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4754">TS</a>]

01:19:18   about it but if you if you know starting with the idea that it takes about two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4758">TS</a>]

01:19:21   billion dollars per year to maintain a modern mapping service that you can work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4761">TS</a>]

01:19:26   out rough estimates of how many users the major mapping services have and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4766">TS</a>]

01:19:32   you can divide and figure out what is the cost per user per year and your your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4772">TS</a>]

01:19:37   estimates you come out with a Google Maps is the leading map service in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4777">TS</a>]

01:19:42   world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4782">TS</a>]

01:19:43   cost about cost them about $2 per user per year so to be profitable now I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4783">TS</a>]

01:19:48   reading right near post Google would need to find ad revenues of $2 per user [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4788">TS</a>]

01:19:53   per year with Apple with fewer users but with a majority of iOS users by all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4793">TS</a>]

01:20:02   accounts their Apple is spending about six seven dollars a year per user per [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4802">TS</a>]

01:20:08   year and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4808">TS</a>]

01:20:10   to make to justify that they really just need to find six or seven dollars of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4810">TS</a>]

01:20:14   value in the iPads and iPhone to people are buying which as you said certainly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4814">TS</a>]

01:20:20   seems reasonable and then you get a 10 Nokia here and it's costing them $66 per [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4820">TS</a>]

01:20:29   year per user because they've only got thirty million users at this point and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4829">TS</a>]

01:20:34   you can if you were to bundle it with with the old Nokia Microsoft Nokia [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4834">TS</a>]

01:20:39   because I actually know they exist without any users so they are having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4839">TS</a>]

01:20:43   what they're doing is a licensed that the Microsoft Microsoft is a probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4843">TS</a>]

01:20:47   only pay Nokia you know a couple of dollars like they would let safer for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4847">TS</a>]

01:20:51   more precise a blend between Apple and Google like some let's say five bucks a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4851">TS</a>]

01:20:57   year for per-user and that just doesn't cover their costs so they'd have to find [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4857">TS</a>]

01:21:01   other revenue they do like I said I always been selling two carmakers but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4861">TS</a>]

01:21:06   that makes it you know that's why the car in that that's why the car guys are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4866">TS</a>]

01:21:11   so you're asking $4000 did you know they probably paying the the defender like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4871">TS</a>]

01:21:17   three four hundred dollars for their markets are huge in their very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4877">TS</a>]

01:21:21   inefficient but but that that's the that's per vehicle pricing it's probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4881">TS</a>]

01:21:25   in the hundreds of dollars but again [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4885">TS</a>]

01:21:28   long now it's up for sale and it's still losing money as it is right and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4888">TS</a>]

01:21:32   question of whether this is why people would ask me why there's a way there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4892">TS</a>]

01:21:37   an Apple by by Nokia's here and I 80 I would say look at stuff for sale for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4897">TS</a>]

01:21:43   three billion dollars and then there's like there's no deal yet but what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4903">TS</a>]

01:21:47   somebody supposedly is bidding three billion dollars on something that a few [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4907">TS</a>]

01:21:50   years ago said seven billion dollars and suddenly we're saying is absolutely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4910">TS</a>]

01:21:53   hygiene factor as far as platforms are concerned if you don't have this you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4913">TS</a>]

01:21:57   you're you're you're not a player and Apple is desperate and so on and so on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4917">TS</a>]

01:22:01   all of these things make no sense when you look at the you follow the money and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4921">TS</a>]

01:22:05   you say here's somebody could just buy the third best apples the Thursday [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4925">TS</a>]

01:22:10   mapping system and probably you know having the longest legacy actually and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4930">TS</a>]

01:22:16   no one wants it why is that why these things don't make sense to to you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4936">TS</a>]

01:22:21   when you reconcile the dollars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4941">TS</a>]

01:22:22   and you reconcile against the supposedly value and in in in that what is it the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4942">TS</a>]

01:22:29   invaluable nature of maps as a strategic asset and so i i i point out that well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4949">TS</a>]

01:22:36   the guys were in it already have already decided and committed to this strategy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4956">TS</a>]

01:22:39   and they're putting their own people to work on it and that this will not help [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4959">TS</a>]

01:22:43   them very much so the only question is will there be a third party that wants [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4963">TS</a>]

01:22:47   to get into this business but they have to discover business model that's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4967">TS</a>]

01:22:51   question if you were in the library is one of the candidates that's being put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4971">TS</a>]

01:22:55   forward maybe it's it's not true but I rumors say that it is interested or the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4975">TS</a>]

01:23:00   car makers as a group with go and buy this mapping think that's up for grabs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4980">TS</a>]

01:23:05   but they would have to come up with how do we make sure we're profitable to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4985">TS</a>]

01:23:09   burning two up to a two billion dollars are you cute this service competitive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4989">TS</a>]

01:23:16   and and and the answer would have to be that they have to get into some way of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/4996">TS</a>]

01:23:21   monetizing Autonomy's autonomous vehicles and and I both have an interest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5001">TS</a>]

01:23:26   in that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5006">TS</a>]

01:23:26   yeah because it kills it can kill a bunch of birds and maybe more than two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5006">TS</a>]

01:23:31   birds with one stone where the autonomous vehicles and you see you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5011">TS</a>]

01:23:35   it's no secret that is getting into package delivery and stuff like that and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5015">TS</a>]

01:23:42   that Amazon you know it it a whole bunch of different companies are converging on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5022">TS</a>]

01:23:46   the same idea that Amazon is investigating new ways to deliver [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5026">TS</a>]

01:23:51   packages to people that without going through UPS or something like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5031">TS</a>]

01:23:56   actually had an uncomfortable conversation with my UPS guy the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5036">TS</a>]

01:23:59   day where there was a package from Amazon that was left at our door and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5039">TS</a>]

01:24:06   then the UPS guy came and rang the doorbell and had another one and that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5046">TS</a>]

01:24:09   very unlike ups ups usually very very efficient at bundling two things you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5049">TS</a>]

01:24:15   know if you have two different orders coming that they come in at one time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5055">TS</a>]

01:24:18   and you know and he mentioned you know that he said he thought I wasn't home [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5058">TS</a>]

01:24:24   because you know that Amazon package had already been left there by somebody else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5064">TS</a>]

01:24:27   at my front door clearly not delivered by UPS but anyway all these things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5067">TS</a>]

01:24:33   people getting driven around and not only in cars this whole idea that if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5073">TS</a>]

01:24:37   live in an urban environment you you can use birth and that of owning a car and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5077">TS</a>]

01:24:42   you actually save money you can save a lot of money compared to the the monthly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5082">TS</a>]

01:24:47   cost of owning a car and combine that with the fact that these cars could do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5087">TS</a>]

01:24:53   the work of taking the pictures and stuff like that as they drive around the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5093">TS</a>]

01:24:57   area [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5097">TS</a>]

01:24:59   oh yeah that's the thing in the fact that this and why you go away go away [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5099">TS</a>]

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01:25:14   hoover's potentially disruptive to terrorism because when you break that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5114">TS</a>]

01:25:18   down besides having a discovery engine for your website its really a massive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5118">TS</a>]

01:25:23   operations and distribution center and that's where a lot of their money goes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5123">TS</a>]

01:25:29   there a lot of their their capex for capital expenses are in setting up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5129">TS</a>]

01:25:34   distribution centers globally and they're very expensive and they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5134">TS</a>]

01:25:37   somewhat even robotic they have about certain stuff in and so that's a that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5137">TS</a>]

01:25:43   a that's a high-cost thing and they're doing it because really that's that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5143">TS</a>]

01:25:48   how they get the growth thing you know they have to get these packages 22 from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5148">TS</a>]

01:25:53   a lot of points to a lot of points and the thing is that that's exactly what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5153">TS</a>]

01:25:58   does now it doesn't have the storefront but it's actually probably easier for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5158">TS</a>]

01:26:02   them do a storefront and then that it would be to build infrastructure that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5162">TS</a>]

01:26:09   that they're disrupting so it's it's it's fascinating i think is one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5169">TS</a>]

01:26:13   most disruptive ideas ever so that's why they would come to the maps question [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5173">TS</a>]

01:26:20   with a different set of priorities not so much about monetizing them the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5180">TS</a>]

01:26:23   the other two are doing it but rather that saying hey you know this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5183">TS</a>]

01:26:26   actually exactly in the direction we want to go we want to be a logistics [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5186">TS</a>]

01:26:29   company we want to be a transportation Co [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5189">TS</a>]

01:26:32   money we want to be a potential even the vehicle company and so and so all of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5192">TS</a>]

01:26:38   that enables that and of course the car makers are in the same obvious reasons [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5198">TS</a>]

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01:26:53   to be a third major maps company that they would have a third different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5213">TS</a>]

01:27:00   revenue model right so there's Google that doing it with advertising and just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5220">TS</a>]

01:27:06   sort of well we'll put our maps anywhere and everywhere we can and get the most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5226">TS</a>]

01:27:10   people we possibly can and we're gonna make that money back by advertising and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5230">TS</a>]

01:27:14   we really only need to sell a few dollars in ad per user per year to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5234">TS</a>]

01:27:18   this to make this work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5238">TS</a>]

01:27:19   there's the Apple model which is we're gonna use this as a value add to our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5239">TS</a>]

01:27:24   premium products and I don't feel like anybody is gonna catch Google or Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5244">TS</a>]

01:27:30   in either of those ways soon and so it makes sense to me that if somebody's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5250">TS</a>]

01:27:34   gonna be a strong number three that it would be with an entirely different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5254">TS</a>]

01:27:38   model Lee Cooper that's what I'm saying by the time was a weird maps are going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5258">TS</a>]

01:27:43   is where we're in the sense of value from transportation by the way it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5263">TS</a>]

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01:27:53   to eventually enable vehicles I do their own designer or licensing for that and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5273">TS</a>]

01:27:59   and the other thing that I felt fascinating and I don't remember where I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5279">TS</a>]

01:28:03   read it but it was a wonderful expose a which said that really the key to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5283">TS</a>]

01:28:09   autonomous vehicle the self-driving cars that Google is is now field testing is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5289">TS</a>]

01:28:14   not that they have this amazing algorithm that it recognizes the world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5294">TS</a>]

01:28:18   and is able to to act as if we do in terms of of avoiding avoiding an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5298">TS</a>]

01:28:25   accident but rather that they compare what they see with what this stored and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5305">TS</a>]

01:28:30   what this store is essentially hyper hyper high-resolution map of the street [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5310">TS</a>]

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01:28:41   take a picture and then they uploaded and that is what stored as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5321">TS</a>]

01:28:45   this is the world the way it looks now compared with the way the world looks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5325">TS</a>]

01:28:50   with what you are seeing at this moment if they don't match then there's an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5330">TS</a>]

01:28:54   obstacle so that's the way they determine whether there's an obstacle in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5334">TS</a>]

01:28:57   the way because there is this kind of comparison being done rather than say oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5337">TS</a>]

01:29:03   I see this blob I'm gonna use my artificial intelligence to determine if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5343">TS</a>]

01:29:06   the blob is a person or an animal or older it's really about this kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5346">TS</a>]

01:29:13   differential they're able to do is add to its really much more brute force that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5353">TS</a>]

01:29:19   we think and probably more affected by the wind and less error prone than than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5359">TS</a>]

01:29:26   than this idea of machine learning about driving and so it's a very data trip in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5366">TS</a>]

01:29:33   that book the Bulls it boils down to therefore really having super hyper [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5373">TS</a>]

01:29:37   hyper accurate maps like down to the centimeter in terms of resolution rather [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5377">TS</a>]

01:29:41   than what we see now which is down to the meter and and also not just Street [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5381">TS</a>]

01:29:48   you imagine Street you with the ability to to to see every cent per square [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5388">TS</a>]

01:29:53   centimeter of the world as you're moving along at 60 frames a second and and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5393">TS</a>]

01:29:58   you doing that comparison [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5398">TS</a>]

01:29:58   you doing that comparison [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5398">TS</a>]

01:30:00   continuously and therefore you're able to really have that autonomous sheen and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5400">TS</a>]

01:30:05   and this is why also it's very difficult to one of the side effects is that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5405">TS</a>]

01:30:10   unless you have a map of the inside of well over the inside of a parking garage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5410">TS</a>]

01:30:14   that this the car cannot go there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5414">TS</a>]

01:30:17   the car can only go in places that have been pre Matt and pre visualized it so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5417">TS</a>]

01:30:22   that's why maps are so important to autonomous vehicles it's because the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5422">TS</a>]

01:30:26   algorithms depend on having a very hyper accurate view of the world and so if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5426">TS</a>]

01:30:31   either if either three of these three contenders right Google Apple and Hooper [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5431">TS</a>]

01:30:37   who wanted one to become potentially again there's a lot of hypotheses here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5437">TS</a>]

01:30:42   potentially suppliers of information of transportation services then you get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5442">TS</a>]

01:30:48   into this whole question of how good are you maps they have to control the maps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5448">TS</a>]

01:30:52   and in fact maps are not good enough so they can't just go oh well we'll just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5452">TS</a>]

01:30:56   get somebody to do it for us know we've got to have to figure this out so so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5456">TS</a>]

01:31:01   that's why I think part of these vans you see that Apple drives around then we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5461">TS</a>]

01:31:05   think of them as being well they're just doing street view [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5465">TS</a>]

01:31:08   well Street View is the is the baby version of what was going to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5468">TS</a>]

01:31:11   necessary if you're gonna have a great point let's keep going on this but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5471">TS</a>]

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01:31:58   buying a mattress all the stuff you can buy online sounds crazy wow why in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5518">TS</a>]

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01:32:16   and painless free returns so 99 days into it you don't like it you think this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5536">TS</a>]

01:32:21   is this is not a decision not a good mattress you just go to their website [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5541">TS</a>]

01:32:25   and say you know set up a thing they'll come pick up the mattress take it out of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5545">TS</a>]

01:32:29   there that's how confident though they are in the mattress that now when they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5549">TS</a>]

01:32:35   first started sponsoring issue I forget what the free trial period was but it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5555">TS</a>]

01:32:39   was less than a hundred days and they extended it to under days because that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5559">TS</a>]

01:32:43   they've had so few returns because people buy these mattresses and love [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5563">TS</a>]

01:32:47   them their mattresses are made in America and the prices if you've ever if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5567">TS</a>]

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01:32:58   for a twin size mattress up to 950 for a king size mattress so under $1000 for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5578">TS</a>]

01:33:05   king size mattress unheard of for a premium matters [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5585">TS</a>]

01:33:08   compare that to the industry averages and it's just outstanding how do they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5588">TS</a>]

01:33:14   deliver and it's this is part of the amazing part of this is is that by using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5594">TS</a>]

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01:33:22   mattresses into shockingly small box it's a big box to get delivered is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5602">TS</a>]

01:33:28   probably the biggest package will get you know if you order one of these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5608">TS</a>]

01:33:31   private the biggest package will get all year but its way smaller than the size [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5611">TS</a>]

01:33:35   of a mattress and so they have instructions on the box they tell you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5615">TS</a>]

01:33:39   take it to the room where you wanna have a ticket to your bedroom and opened a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5619">TS</a>]

01:33:43   box there you definitely don't want to open it downstairs and then carried [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5623">TS</a>]

01:33:46   upstairs designer stuck lugging mattresses thing you open it up and make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5626">TS</a>]

01:33:51   a cool sound as it soaks in the air and next thing you know you've got a full [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5631">TS</a>]

01:33:55   size mattress really really good stuff I've got one it's really nice to crate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5635">TS</a>]

01:34:00   mattress could not be more convenient I just found out I did not know this I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5640">TS</a>]

01:34:05   don't live in New York they've got a thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5645">TS</a>]

01:34:07   if you live in New York City you can get one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5647">TS</a>]

01:34:10   same day I believe in actually delivering this is how small the boxes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5650">TS</a>]

01:34:14   are they get delivered by people on bicycles that so it's a big thing to log [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5654">TS</a>]

01:34:19   on your back on a bike but it actually is that that convenient to shop around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5659">TS</a>]

01:34:23   so here's the thing you can't lose you don't have to go to six different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5663">TS</a>]

01:34:29   mattress stores and tried six different mattresses and figure out which ones are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5669">TS</a>]

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01:34:38   talk-show casper CA SPER dot com slash the talk-show figure out what size [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5678">TS</a>]

01:34:45   matters he won an order it that's it now use that code the talk show I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5685">TS</a>]

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01:35:15   maps I'm not sure if we have more to go on maps but it has occurred to me one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5715">TS</a>]

01:35:21   thing I've looked at as I've been thinking about it more and more is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5721">TS</a>]

01:35:25   I'm slow to the uptake sometimes on on revolutionary companies and whoever is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5725">TS</a>]

01:35:31   one of them where whoever is a company where I've been using them for a while [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5731">TS</a>]

01:35:35   ever since this especially since they came to Philadelphia but they've always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5735">TS</a>]

01:35:38   been you know they started in San Francisco and San Francisco has it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5738">TS</a>]

01:35:43   gotten better and it's because of Hooper but San Francisco to me is always had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5743">TS</a>]

01:35:47   some of the worst taxicab service of any any city that I visit simply appalling [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5747">TS</a>]

01:35:53   compared to what I'm used to on the east coast and so I was a big fan of over in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5753">TS</a>]

01:35:58   San Francisco right from the get-go but I just I thought of them simply as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5758">TS</a>]

01:36:06   new-fangled taxi company and that's it and I didn't look past that and I it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5766">TS</a>]

01:36:10   occurred to me that that's exactly how I used to see Amazon I was a very early [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5770">TS</a>]

01:36:13   adopter of Amazon for buying books but I saw them as a bookstore and then people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5773">TS</a>]

01:36:19   would say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5779">TS</a>]

01:36:20   amazon has ambitions to do a lot more than just books and I would just roll my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5780">TS</a>]

01:36:24   eyes and think whatever but it's a pretty it is a pretty cool bookstore I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5784">TS</a>]

01:36:29   thought the same thing about hoover until recently but I see now that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5789">TS</a>]

01:36:32   think that they they sort of our like the inverse of Amazon and what's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5792">TS</a>]

01:36:41   interesting when you think about trying to do this type of analysis of where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5801">TS</a>]

01:36:45   things I always use some kind of you know biological metaphors like it so you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5805">TS</a>]

01:36:50   don't this is likely to cycle to get a baby and saying that's pretty useless at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5810">TS</a>]

01:37:02   this is a lot of the criticisms we get when not just one new companies are born [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5822">TS</a>]

01:37:06   but even when you products are born from established companies and we are just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5826">TS</a>]

01:37:10   like it's like the Apple watcher the first iPhone or the first whatever I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5830">TS</a>]

01:37:17   mean yes some things Apple does we're much more meaningful but it's like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5837">TS</a>]

01:37:21   logic of it is that we're right inside the magic of it is being able to look in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5841">TS</a>]

01:37:28   the child's eyes and say that their lives you know human being that's gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5848">TS</a>]

01:37:33   live ninety years that's going to have an amazing life that's going to change [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5853">TS</a>]

01:37:37   the world and contribute so much to others and and and and and and yet and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5857">TS</a>]

01:37:44   yet that's not what comes in the mind of the parent that the stranger may just be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5864">TS</a>]

01:37:49   ambivalent or you know a lot of young people who haven't you you remember when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5869">TS</a>]

01:37:54   you were when you were a teenager you think babies were all that great but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5874">TS</a>]

01:37:58   when you're a parent ages kind of a really get a soft spot and then when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5878">TS</a>]

01:38:03   it's your kid you're you're you're you're you're completely irrational [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5883">TS</a>]

01:38:06   about children but but the point I'm making is that we don't love children [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5886">TS</a>]

01:38:12   because of what they're gonna be necessarily we don't love our children [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5892">TS</a>]

01:38:15   because they're gonna grow up to be lawyers and doctors they do they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5895">TS</a>]

01:38:21   gonna help us in our old age we love because we love them and the thing is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5901">TS</a>]

01:38:26   that that there's this I'd like to propose that we treat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5906">TS</a>]

01:38:32   startups in and young things in general with the same contemplation of their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5912">TS</a>]

01:38:43   potential but also sort of saying well there are valuable just because they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5923">TS</a>]

01:38:48   exist you know they're they're just valuable because somebody took the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5928">TS</a>]

01:38:51   effort of making it and and and and you know that's worth a lot and it's coming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5931">TS</a>]

01:39:00   back to the mixer again remembering and ratatouille and that speech of what was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5940">TS</a>]

01:39:08   the name of the the critics at the end he said you know nothing I think we do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5948">TS</a>]

01:39:14   its critics is worth the crappiest product we've ever visited [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5954">TS</a>]

01:39:19   promise restaurant we've ever eaten that because these people work to make it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5959">TS</a>]

01:39:26   happen in all we do is consumed the result in and and market so we don't you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5966">TS</a>]

01:39:34   know they deserve a lot more than we do but he said you know the value of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5974">TS</a>]

01:39:39   critically continues in discovering the new and that's that that was a beautiful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5979">TS</a>]

01:39:45   speech and I wish I could remember who wrote it but it was almost as if they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5985">TS</a>]

01:39:51   were speaking to the characters portrayed as I remember that hitting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5991">TS</a>]

01:39:58   home for me too because I clearly was self-aware enough to recognize the debt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/5998">TS</a>]

01:40:04   that the career that I've carved out for myself is you know effectively a critic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6004">TS</a>]

01:40:11   a pundit on these things and then I do a lot more telling tell you know thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6011">TS</a>]

01:40:20   about whether the work of other people is good or bad or how it could be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6020">TS</a>]

01:40:23   improved then I do creating it myself and that you know I should remember that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6023">TS</a>]

01:40:28   and keep that perspective and not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6028">TS</a>]

01:40:31   never lose sight of the fact that what I say is not more important than the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6031">TS</a>]

01:40:34   actual work itself having said that so I wanna make sure that we do we give a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6034">TS</a>]

01:40:43   of credit to those who stick their necks out but it's it's also important when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6043">TS</a>]

01:40:48   you when you look at something and you ask yourself what can I become that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6048">TS</a>]

01:40:53   there are helpful hands one thing you can study with a baby is the case study [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6053">TS</a>]

01:40:58   its parents are often that's a great indicator of whether gonna end up doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6058">TS</a>]

01:41:02   or how how well not always I mean maybe even if you have 20% chance it's better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6062">TS</a>]

01:41:07   than 0 though so so there's there's that and also something you study the child [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6067">TS</a>]

01:41:13   and you see how whether they struggle through life and that usually tells you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6073">TS</a>]

01:41:18   that they will do better than average because they they actually are learning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6078">TS</a>]

01:41:22   through experience and and so when you see something like you know you measure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6082">TS</a>]

01:41:31   things like Rd flexible are the driven are they are they do they have an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6091">TS</a>]

01:41:36   ambition and fundamentally I think that disrupted theory that I I'm a big fan of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6096">TS</a>]

01:41:43   big supporter and advocate all is that it gives you these hands about where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6103">TS</a>]

01:41:51   things can go into thinking around the analysis around an object like to work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6111">TS</a>]

01:41:57   is that you know they're solving a job and that is to get people for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6117">TS</a>]

01:42:02   point-to-point and that job today as an alternate call the car and it's really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6122">TS</a>]

01:42:08   the butt of the Standing the substitution power that they have versus [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6128">TS</a>]

01:42:12   something that doesn't necessarily is not seen in the same category and this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6132">TS</a>]

01:42:18   is when when you start to jump across markets and across categories in so you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6138">TS</a>]

01:42:24   know actually this thing has the potential to be a threat to something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6144">TS</a>]

01:42:28   that's completely unrelated and that's that that this skill understanding what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6148">TS</a>]

01:42:34   it's really what it's really trying to do and what the customer we use the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6154">TS</a>]

01:42:39   phrase with what the customer hires the product to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6159">TS</a>]

01:42:42   and that this is in the way of saying this is the jobs to be done [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6162">TS</a>]

01:42:46   methodologies like saying well you don't buy a drill you buy a hole in the wall [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6166">TS</a>]

01:42:51   and so if if and and this has been an observation for many many decades ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6171">TS</a>]

01:42:56   that that which companies sell is what what their buyers for their customers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6176">TS</a>]

01:43:01   are buying so this distinction is important because of those the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6181">TS</a>]

01:43:06   capabilities that the that the seller have the capability that they say well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6186">TS</a>]

01:43:13   we can make this but then the other person on the other side will receive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6193">TS</a>]

01:43:17   the product is saying what I really need is something else but thanks I'll take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6197">TS</a>]

01:43:20   this all make it work that's where the combination of those two things plus the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6200">TS</a>]

01:43:25   opportunity to shake hands and change money that's how we make business and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6205">TS</a>]

01:43:31   often these these are separate things too many times we end up in a situation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6211">TS</a>]

01:43:35   where r by-product not exactly what we want but but then you ask yourself that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6215">TS</a>]

01:43:42   that product and evolve get better because it's getting information from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6222">TS</a>]

01:43:45   the from the buyer about what's wrong with it and then and then you know they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6225">TS</a>]

01:43:49   get pricing signals so very very much like a buzzword but the idea is simply [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6229">TS</a>]

01:43:56   that look i cant charge much for this thing like today I can't charged $400 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6236">TS</a>]

01:44:01   for your office anymore and that's a signal to Microsoft to say go do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6241">TS</a>]

01:44:06   something else and if you don't have that signal you just keep doing it so so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6246">TS</a>]

01:44:12   if you sell to enterprises were like Oh whatever I'll keep pain that then you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6252">TS</a>]

01:44:16   you get dumber you get done as if you have to consumers a customer then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6256">TS</a>]

01:44:23   they're going to eventually say that anymore I'm gonna go off by a tablet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6263">TS</a>]

01:44:27   that is good enough for considerable PC etcetera etcetera and so and so this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6267">TS</a>]

01:44:32   that this is why the conversation happens with the customer so there's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6272">TS</a>]

01:44:36   lot of these things we can talk about but bottom line is that when I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6276">TS</a>]

01:44:41   about it who were always think about what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6281">TS</a>]

01:44:43   hard to do it I think what they're hired to do is saying I want a car outside my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6283">TS</a>]

01:44:47   door whenever I'm ready to go and and if I have that that option [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6287">TS</a>]

01:44:55   every time every day everywhere there are only two car anymore and that means [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6295">TS</a>]

01:45:00   I can get rid of my car and its if I can do a deal with you by and say hey guys I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6300">TS</a>]

01:45:04   don't want to pay for this trip every every time I get in the car but can I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6304">TS</a>]

01:45:08   just picked up from $300 and you guys always show up and it works it out and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6308">TS</a>]

01:45:13   says okay you know they probably will have some customers there will use a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6313">TS</a>]

01:45:18   lesson some customers will use it more but on average maybe $300 a month is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6318">TS</a>]

01:45:22   good price has all you can eat then suddenly that you know you'll have like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6322">TS</a>]

01:45:30   Amazon Amazon Prime in so you'll you'll be saying you know I want to be prime [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6330">TS</a>]

01:45:36   crime is $350 a month maybe in the beginning they're gonna charge $500 a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6336">TS</a>]

01:45:40   month with some people will pay that and probably don't have few where you were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6340">TS</a>]

01:45:45   so far so users etcetera etcetera so over time that's going to change but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6345">TS</a>]

01:45:49   anyway they'll do that and someday you know and then what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6349">TS</a>]

01:45:52   and then pulling out all this money $500 and they're saying that they have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6352">TS</a>]

01:45:57   turn around and hire people to to serve as your first or or whatever and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6357">TS</a>]

01:46:03   they'll say you know maybe we ought to finance their car buying and maybe we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6363">TS</a>]

01:46:08   ought to put them on the payroll maybe we're gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6368">TS</a>]

01:46:11   get some autonomous vehicles will have their algorithms for dispatch because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6371">TS</a>]

01:46:16   we'll know where these people live etcetera etcetera etcetera [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6376">TS</a>]

01:46:19   so a lot of these things are going to be information driven and at that point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6379">TS</a>]

01:46:22   though did you know the the machine just takes over and it just goes goes and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6382">TS</a>]

01:46:26   goes rolling and rolling in and as far as entrepreneurs concerned at every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6386">TS</a>]

01:46:30   stage of that journey there just following in their instincts are saying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6390">TS</a>]

01:46:33   well obviously we gonna do this right people are asking for it or hey I just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6393">TS</a>]

01:46:38   some guy you know intern runs in the room is a haven however we thought of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6398">TS</a>]

01:46:42   doing this it makes a lot of sense just read these numbers look at this and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6402">TS</a>]

01:46:46   they'll do it without any kind of greed strategy or any kind of big vision or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6406">TS</a>]

01:46:50   any McKinsey consultant telling them that's what the future is going to be so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6410">TS</a>]

01:46:55   they'll do it intuitively and lo and behold ten years later they'll they'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6415">TS</a>]

01:47:00   they'll have millions of customers paying them billions of dollars a year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6420">TS</a>]

01:47:05   to provide transportation services in all those millions of customers will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6425">TS</a>]

01:47:09   have abandoned only a car and there will be commissioning more Priuses than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6429">TS</a>]

01:47:15   anybody else on the planet probably you know enough to fill a factory production [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6435">TS</a>]

01:47:20   so stay in that case why shouldn't make its own cars and maybe we'll maybe maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6440">TS</a>]

01:47:26   I'll just simply do a great deal with and and we would I was actually be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6446">TS</a>]

01:47:29   having one giant customer millions of small ones and and so maybe that will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6449">TS</a>]

01:47:37   work for the both of them but maybe not maybe the liberals say you know prices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6457">TS</a>]

01:47:42   and the best configuration we can do a lot better if we if we made our own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6462">TS</a>]

01:47:45   design and then they'll hire the best designer out of GMR Toyota BMW and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6465">TS</a>]

01:47:50   they'll say we go to it and by the way we got manufacturing guys can help as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6470">TS</a>]

01:47:54   well and on it goes right to this is why you go from a baby to a mature adult [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6474">TS</a>]

01:47:59   that certainly is but I think that's occurred to me and I realize that it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6479">TS</a>]

01:48:04   very different if you live in a relatively your or like I live in a real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6484">TS</a>]

01:48:08   urban environment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6488">TS</a>]

01:48:08   in center city philadelphia go to New York to San Francisco but if you live [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6488">TS</a>]

01:48:13   anywhere is even relatively sober where it can be a practical service I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6493">TS</a>]

01:48:17   obviously there's and especially in the United States as many people who live in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6497">TS</a>]

01:48:20   rural areas where he isn't gonna make sense or at least isn't gonna make sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6500">TS</a>]

01:48:24   for a long time but it just take a look at it typical city where r most of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6504">TS</a>]

01:48:30   cars by far and away most of the cars at any moment in any city or part right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6510">TS</a>]

01:48:36   which is incredibly inefficient and it's an enormous part of the pain in the ass [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6516">TS</a>]

01:48:41   of owning a car or even visiting a city with a car is the pain of parking so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6521">TS</a>]

01:48:49   but I can but that's actually good for the auto industry where there's a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6529">TS</a>]

01:48:54   more cars being sold there are cars being driven at any moment and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6534">TS</a>]

01:48:59   disruption of uber is let's keep these cars moving and it's almost like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6539">TS</a>]

01:49:04   airline metaphor you know when you hear that like one of the reasons that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6544">TS</a>]

01:49:08   Southwest is is more successful than most other airlines is that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6548">TS</a>]

01:49:12   employees buy into the mantra you can't make money with planes that are in here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6552">TS</a>]

01:49:18   and that's why they they're southwest has a significantly like like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6558">TS</a>]

01:49:24   contributes to their profitability that they there take that takes them less [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6564">TS</a>]

01:49:30   time to keep disembarking embarked on a flight and they keep most of their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6570">TS</a>]

01:49:35   planes in the air [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6575">TS</a>]

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01:50:16   and their their algorithmic approach to 20 autonomy and then you fold wilbur's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6616">TS</a>]

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01:50:40   is where they were you have to have another way of thinking and theorizing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6640">TS</a>]

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01:51:25   cooper protect their lead what keeps other companies from saying oh I see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6685">TS</a>]

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01:51:53   recruiting users as quickly as possible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6713">TS</a>]

01:51:56   establishing as many cities as possible so they're running a socially in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6716">TS</a>]

01:52:00   land grab scenario where you identify the resources that you need drivers cars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6720">TS</a>]

01:52:05   passengers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6725">TS</a>]

01:52:07   and and regulation and you just like sweeping the land with that and then you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6727">TS</a>]

01:52:13   you'd assume there's a first-mover advantage of course others can come in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6733">TS</a>]

01:52:16   but he realizes heavy lifting similarly coulda said well we stumbled upon [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6736">TS</a>]

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01:52:25   better but there were other search engines the party was like Google [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6745">TS</a>]

01:52:28   doubled and tripled and quadrupled down on servers and other infrastructure and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6748">TS</a>]

01:52:33   that was basically that was there that was our secret sauce it was brute force [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6753">TS</a>]

01:52:37   it was just running really fast and so the early years that they were upset and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6757">TS</a>]

01:52:41   on response times like like to add other search engines through measuring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6761">TS</a>]

01:52:48   response times in second and Google was already measuring and tenths of a second [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6768">TS</a>]

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01:53:11   because they realize that the thing that they needed to tweak the most was that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6791">TS</a>]

01:53:15   performance metric in the scaling metric and so that let them essentially run [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6795">TS</a>]

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01:53:24   way and others who came before it's this this driving driving force that you just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6804">TS</a>]

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01:53:31   you know what what you're doing and the other guys are just not sure if that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6811">TS</a>]

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01:53:39   like I don't get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6819">TS</a>]

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01:53:47   you know the the first mover advantage is is real but you have to kind of stay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6827">TS</a>]

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01:54:08   for WBC too and had a couple of coupons or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6848">TS</a>]

01:54:14   codes or something to get free rides in left and he had been meaning to try it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6854">TS</a>]

01:54:19   never tried the service in here he'd gone back home to Taipei and forgot to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6859">TS</a>]

01:54:24   use them and had taken an uber every time he got in a car in San Francisco [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6864">TS</a>]

01:54:28   simply out of habit and that the habit matter that without even thinking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6868">TS</a>]

01:54:32   it he forgotten to try and lift even though he was going to be able to try it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6872">TS</a>]

01:54:35   for free [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6875">TS</a>]

01:54:38   to me that just speaks to the power of the first mover advantage of our first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6878">TS</a>]

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01:55:08   time knowing to put all the chips on the table when you know you have a good hand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6908">TS</a>]

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01:55:21   parlay every advantage into another one and in the bed again and again and again [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6921">TS</a>]

01:55:27   doubling down every time and shifting their strategy all along the way and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6927">TS</a>]

01:55:31   pivoting as they call it these days that's that's the magic of it I couldn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6931">TS</a>]

01:55:36   agree more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6936">TS</a>]

01:55:37   so let's wrap it up here in a two hour mark forested you thank you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6937">TS</a>]

01:55:41   ordinarily for your time what a fascinating conversation here's where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6941">TS</a>]

01:55:45   people people can find out more at first your website a Simcoe asy MCO dot com [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6945">TS</a>]

01:55:53   you've got your own podcast the critical path over with five by five to five by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6953">TS</a>]

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01:56:06   you on twitter twitter it's just a taste very good Twitter account [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6966">TS</a>]

01:56:12   anything else before we go No thank you thank you very much for this opportunity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6972">TS</a>]

01:56:19   it's a long time and likewise getting stuff thankyou for us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6979">TS</a>]

01:56:24   and we'll talk to you soon [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzuJbk8/6984">TS</a>]