The Talk Show

108: ‘Malaprops’, With Guest Ben Thompson


00:00:00   what time you got what you got eleven o'clock 12:21 a.m. you series is going [TS]

00:00:05   alright ya know I have done to science I took a shower then I way down for a [TS]

00:00:12   minute now in their drink coffee and then I will calm myself down with couple [TS]

00:00:15   of years in the AM station and I'm good [TS]

00:00:23   door about it okay although although we had we had we had a nice like home [TS]

00:00:28   Korean BBQ at the house place of course since she's like my mother was a huge [TS]

00:00:36   whiskey fan so she always has really good stuff but I i women in myself 22 [TS]

00:00:41   ass to a single a single-serving sell your muon I do that has the price to pay [TS]

00:00:50   to be a guess I forgot I have you set up I have Taipei set up in my today view I [TS]

00:00:56   could I didn't even ask you a time was I could have just opened today my world [TS]

00:01:00   clock I guess that that there's enough about today I think the problem is that [TS]

00:01:08   I usually I really only open that thing up for its kinda weird to have that be [TS]

00:01:12   today and notifications like I understand why they grouped together [TS]

00:01:16   that way but I think in practice it's weird because it's one or the other is [TS]

00:01:20   always two steps away is that one step away [TS]

00:01:23   yeah yeah I agree I I don't know why I never click on today either i'm looking [TS]

00:01:29   like it actually took me a couple seconds to remember what you were [TS]

00:01:31   talking about he said today its obligations only and I don't know that [TS]

00:01:38   guess that's kind of true on both OS's although I was talking about the Mac OS [TS]

00:01:42   but kinda chillin both OS's where I've always got it on notifications today [TS]

00:01:50   yeah now it's way it's interesting because you could almost see that as [TS]

00:01:57   being being a shift to rate in almost everything is is more responsive in real [TS]

00:02:03   time whereas today that's like a plan and I don't maybe we're hardly [TS]

00:02:08   authorities to talk about [TS]

00:02:10   having a set schedule and marching through days though probably letters [TS]

00:02:15   they have seen some people who wanted who requested they wish that there was a [TS]

00:02:19   way to make at least on the Mac I think only makes sense that they could make [TS]

00:02:25   that persisted and like just say take those two inches on the radar screen in [TS]

00:02:30   just always make it today and you know I got a big 30 inch iMac here's something [TS]

00:02:34   you know big Thunderbolt Display I don't need the whole screen for this just [TS]

00:02:38   treat my screen is what the left and give me that today view over there so it [TS]

00:02:42   Gallagher permanent agenda not only I I did something similar to that win arm [TS]

00:02:47   Lakewood was a Microsoft Windows 8 and you could mix like the regular desktop [TS]

00:02:53   and then like Windows 8 apps in like a like a slave runs on the screen and so I [TS]

00:02:58   put my calendar there for that exact reason it was it worked out perfectly [TS]

00:03:04   and then I just had a quick view is going on [TS]

00:03:07   people have done that people have done that virtually or in a mismatch of [TS]

00:03:11   digital and analog for as long as they've been using computers in the [TS]

00:03:14   office if you think about like sticky note on the side of my own Oh totally [TS]

00:03:20   totally it is I think that's what that something that's what was that were you [TS]

00:03:24   talking to this like theirs they couldn't get new accessories like an [TS]

00:03:27   iPad we can actually like have it as a secondary display or whatever to me [TS]

00:03:33   either though the group I guess if you have a nap in your desk is just the [TS]

00:03:36   editor of you have therefore your calendar and stuff like that i mean it's [TS]

00:03:40   yeah I didn't think that I know it when I don't forget the name of the thing [TS]

00:03:44   you're talking about but I know exactly what youre talking about and I've been [TS]

00:03:46   looking at I've been thinking about trying that out but I am I wouldn't use [TS]

00:03:49   it again I would not use it as a I wouldn't put an apple there anyhow I but [TS]

00:03:56   I could I would think about using is acting like you said leaders as sort of [TS]

00:03:59   a sport and no word yea im ard imma screen maven so I have three screens on [TS]

00:04:10   my desk so [TS]

00:04:11   uniform for an iPad what's the name is a reflector or is that the different thing [TS]

00:04:17   no I think I want to help but that might be totally making that up but he added [TS]

00:04:24   years I think was built by former apple or something so it is like an apparently [TS]

00:04:27   it it actually works quite well despite do at No [TS]

00:04:35   do anything that's it duet display yeah there we go put in Charlotte next week [TS]

00:04:47   first for the after-school advised a display accidental ingestion your iPad [TS]

00:04:50   into action and that that's there that actually there there page title for [TS]

00:04:56   Google so they're definitely playing up the VIX Apple engineer angle so [TS]

00:05:01   effectively that's the that's what I remembered that's interesting I wonder [TS]

00:05:04   how that plays at the company the other thing too is that the same part of the [TS]

00:05:11   reason that very few former Apple engineers or you know people who have [TS]

00:05:18   you know that any involvement managers to they don't talk about their [TS]

00:05:23   experience at Apple even when they leave is because so many of them go back and [TS]

00:05:27   then a revolving door right it's like Steve Jobs Steve Jobs did when when when [TS]

00:05:35   he came back to the company's get rid of the sabbatical program they used to be a [TS]

00:05:41   forget how many years but every five years you got like couple months about [TS]

00:05:44   and he got really I forget various reasons but one of them was that an [TS]

00:05:52   awful how the time people who take a sabbatical and in the end it's about it [TS]

00:05:55   but there's sort of a defacto sabbatical where if you feel burned out you just [TS]

00:06:01   quit you can leave and you know as long as you're on good terms it's like the [TS]

00:06:06   easiest way to get a job at Apple is to have been a successful album boy before [TS]

00:06:10   I can't tell you how many people I know who've left and come back within [TS]

00:06:14   sometimes a year sometimes it's actually pretty quick sometimes 34 years but they [TS]

00:06:17   do but one of the things you could do that would ruin that would be to you [TS]

00:06:22   know you know lab that the company in the intern yet not only know it it's a [TS]

00:06:28   very awake at this point it's a mean everyone knows about it and I think even [TS]

00:06:33   Apple internally Blake Dave days it's always like it's totally accepted and an [TS]

00:06:40   assumption llega burned-out [TS]

00:06:42   called you get burned out and go work at a startup to relax you come back right [TS]

00:06:48   to give you an idea of what the what the what the pace and expectations are ya [TS]

00:06:55   but it is you know better I think it's an interesting way to do sabbaticals [TS]

00:07:00   quick comeback yeah I work for them in russia that it's something that other [TS]

00:07:07   companies like two adopted as a part of the Microsoft have a sabbatical policy I [TS]

00:07:14   don't think so it was that not that it matters I remember I mean I wasn't there [TS]

00:07:19   long enough to you to have a matter for me but I I've heard of people taking [TS]

00:07:24   sabbaticals but I don't think it was a formal thing I think those things were [TS]

00:07:27   if you're you're in good standing in the other Microsoft is in part because of [TS]

00:07:33   where they're located I'm in there there are more and more jobs in in Seattle [TS]

00:07:39   instead and the startups and stuff but in general it's more of a big company [TS]

00:07:42   town with Microsoft and Amazon and no one from acts of historical Amazon for [TS]

00:07:46   the most part because you know things that they were hinson hours Nokia paid [TS]

00:07:52   anything so there's kind of a plus in my rocks off it's a plus in that way [TS]

00:07:58   there's still a lot of really good employees their wares if they had been [TS]

00:08:01   the valley like you didn't like HP your or Yahoo is possible for Miss America [TS]

00:08:05   back and they just lost they watched so many people you know if they're just [TS]

00:08:09   like how do you come back from that wears Microsoft I think one of the [TS]

00:08:13   Avenger being there is that they they're still a lot of really strong people [TS]

00:08:17   there is a disadvantage though because you get people that are just kind of [TS]

00:08:20   there and they're not particularly pleased at being there and there [TS]

00:08:23   a drag so it cuts both ways by Tom I think I do recall people you know taking [TS]

00:08:29   some time off in you know it being ok because their valuable employees in you [TS]

00:08:35   know people appreciate that sometimes you need to unplug it used to be a mean [TS]

00:08:41   his history but it was you know when I wasn't getting out of college in [TS]

00:08:46   ninety-six I mean Microsoft was notorious infamous famous for being the [TS]

00:08:55   hardest place in the world to get hired it was you know that there was a play [TS]

00:08:59   day I think they practically invented the sort of gimmicky you know off the [TS]

00:09:05   top of your head how many marbles would fit in a you know a barrel or Volkswagen [TS]

00:09:10   bug right but the interview question why why is a manhole cover round and and and [TS]

00:09:18   also but tough like wakeboarding questions 24 programmers yeah I don't [TS]

00:09:24   you think that that that's probably I mean any candy company that I'm top 10 I [TS]

00:09:31   mean it shifted to Google right and it's you know some people how the nature they [TS]

00:09:36   want to get on the next big thing but for a lot of people the idea of being at [TS]

00:09:40   the market leader and knowing you know that that's that's attracted a lot of [TS]

00:09:44   people and then asleep or valuable too because you need those are the kind of [TS]

00:09:47   folks that come to provide long-term stability because you know what once [TS]

00:09:51   they're set there said I mean you do need to people that we take risks in [TS]

00:09:54   push forward but it is always a balance and it can create a certain arrogance [TS]

00:09:59   and institutional arrogance because the gist of it is then it trades this [TS]

00:10:03   created a culture I think we're at the assumption was any you have to be really [TS]

00:10:08   smart to work at Microsoft and and therefore everybody here is like the [TS]

00:10:12   smartest people in the world and at the time Microsoft had this extraordinary [TS]

00:10:17   success that seemed to back up the idea that the company was staffed with all of [TS]

00:10:22   the best programmers and oral absolutely no it is definitely a problem it in it [TS]

00:10:26   and you get [TS]

00:10:28   it's a prominent a few levels one you definitely get variants or arrogant to [TS]

00:10:33   it also kind of breathe a little bit of a bad culture in that everyone everyone [TS]

00:10:40   is like the first time I got into place where they're not for sure the smartest [TS]

00:10:44   person in the room and so every is very eager to show that they are the smartest [TS]

00:10:48   person in the room and like people trying to show that they're smart is not [TS]

00:10:52   conducive to collaborative collaborative worker is conducive to having a very [TS]

00:10:59   doggy dog sort of culture which Microsoft is very famous for end and I [TS]

00:11:06   think that's that's probably plays into it [TS]

00:11:09   yeah I think Google is the inheritor of that I do let me Google is so much like [TS]

00:11:15   Microsoft [TS]

00:11:16   in so many respects I mean I've written from just from me [TS]

00:11:20   big picture i GTG perspective I think that there there right now in a place [TS]

00:11:25   similar to Microsoft around around 2,000 obviously that's somewhat controversial [TS]

00:11:29   but not even that but just the way the higher the way they the way they treat [TS]

00:11:33   employees their status in the valley the way people look at them for sure that [TS]

00:11:37   there there the inheritor even the even and I think you can agree with that even [TS]

00:11:42   if you like Google Microsoft vice versa [TS]

00:11:44   and it's just the function of being kinda big dog and a mic of course Apple [TS]

00:11:49   is is the biggest client call for market perspective but they've always been very [TS]

00:11:53   slow it's apples of the valley but they're separate from the valley like [TS]

00:11:58   all the startups and all people like all work towards Google and people bars [TS]

00:12:02   after that just as they previously did Microsoft and Apple is always been kind [TS]

00:12:06   of a bit of an aberration from a coaching perspective from the product of [TS]

00:12:10   perspective and obviously you know there's something to that I think it's [TS]

00:12:15   also a personality perspective I think that the i mean I know I have talked [TS]

00:12:20   about this before in the show I know people who have gone between Google and [TS]

00:12:25   Apple but not very few fewer than any similar companies that I know [TS]

00:12:30   like they just the two companies tend to draw very very different personalities [TS]

00:12:34   know for certain I think you can see this from a social perspective you know [TS]

00:12:40   I think Apple people tend to hang out with Apple people whereas Google and and [TS]

00:12:46   kinda slow startup culture is much more much more of a group in goes back and [TS]

00:12:52   forth and you see tons of you know you from Google going and going into going [TS]

00:12:57   to start ups and coming back on select that educ durable but I think too much [TS]

00:13:01   lower degree I think you you are more want term employees at Apple Store to [TS]

00:13:07   see him in the world were were able to have a talk a bit but I definitely have [TS]

00:13:11   always felt that the valley companies Google yea even though Apple's the [TS]

00:13:16   biggest Apple is kind of its in its own world in can always has been [TS]

00:13:20   yeah I also their personality wise I think a lot of the people who have [TS]

00:13:23   gotten an apple who are very smart but they're not the type of smart person who [TS]

00:13:29   wants to assert that they're the smartest person in the world are in the [TS]

00:13:32   room that there and they'd be happy not to because it did cool now I've got [TS]

00:13:36   these other smarter people and almost like to if you want to bring some sports [TS]

00:13:41   ball into it it's you know what do you do if you've always been the star [TS]

00:13:45   basketball player but now you're only the third or fourth best are you happy [TS]

00:13:51   because holy holy shit now I've got three guys on the team who are better [TS]

00:13:55   than me and i'll settle into a smaller role and we're gonna win or are you you [TS]

00:14:02   know you upset and gonna complain about how many shots were getting and stuff [TS]

00:14:05   like that [TS]

00:14:05   note only eight and I mean I am I think of I'm very vociferous in my you know I [TS]

00:14:12   will be able basketball and when the result of it is because I think it's [TS]

00:14:16   it's a sport that it's one of the hardest ports to kind of figure out [TS]

00:14:21   right I mean I think we did by the titles last time we played baseball at [TS]

00:14:25   the end of a one-and-one game where is basketball the interaction both on often [TS]

00:14:30   especially on defense is [TS]

00:14:32   is so important to it and it's and it's not it's you can't distill it to a [TS]

00:14:37   spreadsheet is just one of those days a lot of feel to it makes sense right and [TS]

00:14:41   with only five players on the court anytime one new player is a significant [TS]

00:14:46   difference I mean I think maybe the canonical example would be when when [TS]

00:14:51   King James went to the heat and he already had a lineup of all-star players [TS]

00:14:57   and they added you know almost in arguably the best player in the league [TS]

00:15:02   that's not necessary that wasn't necessarily going to work out there [TS]

00:15:07   wasn't you know it was certainly talent injection but it it isn't necessarily it [TS]

00:15:13   wasn't it wasn't fate that it was going to lead to success rate was a fast [TS]

00:15:18   things are seeing that they replayed outraged and in sorry your week going [TS]

00:15:21   going worse than in that time so now it is with the Cavalier's yeah yeah totally [TS]

00:15:29   so I've always been very fascinating is armed E [TS]

00:15:34   if you work a kind the Executive Board of most big companies it's like Stanford [TS]

00:15:38   Stanford MIT Stanford Stanford but that's never been the case for a for [TS]

00:15:44   Apple I'm you get right now I mean you have your typical to Auburn and [TS]

00:15:49   interference with 22 Boston get a DQ into a huge do could see obviously you [TS]

00:15:56   know that that's a prestigious school but not a valid school right is that [TS]

00:16:00   it's out of Valley School arm shoulder with Boston College yeah I think so and [TS]

00:16:06   it is now used for whatever reason he's a huge fan of sports yeah I think he is [TS]

00:16:12   our my I just quit my job and a couple of them here are the University of [TS]

00:16:16   Massachusetts Amherst enrich ill Phil Schiller is Boston College and I i think [TS]

00:16:23   thats [TS]

00:16:24   Jeff Williams North Carolina State I mean like state schools rate I'm good [TS]

00:16:30   schools schools are but not very different than the then then a lot of [TS]

00:16:37   the valley and I think I I think it's a big deal I think it matters and I'm [TS]

00:16:42   biased news regarding I want to say it's cool I mean it was a Drexel University [TS]

00:16:46   by addressing the public school for people who are otherwise going to end up [TS]

00:16:52   in the states by the way I think it's alriiiiight I'm not objective in the [TS]

00:17:02   slightest in this because when I was when I was gonna be a very hard time [TS]

00:17:10   getting a job and because I had is very kind of non-traditional background I had [TS]

00:17:14   been living abroad I'd teaching English traveling the world stuff like that and [TS]

00:17:19   water companies were like people to always very interesting but I would [TS]

00:17:23   never make the cover an interview if I got a prisoner of you never make it to a [TS]

00:17:26   second one even if I thought very well and cuddle one exception was was Apple [TS]

00:17:32   where everything went fantastically got in you know relatively little quite [TS]

00:17:39   easily and you never told me write about or in ice for six or 630 like my first [TS]

00:17:46   interview so that price sorry things but she's like I want to hire uses a resume [TS]

00:17:53   because it was so off the wall like that's that's the sort of person that [TS]

00:17:58   were looking for and you go there any me lots of people and I believe it because [TS]

00:18:02   most people I met ya the recent Stanford people in there were some you know I [TS]

00:18:06   might even like that but a lot of people had really weird backgrounds and did [TS]

00:18:12   lots of strange stuff in there were super smart but they were the weird [TS]

00:18:16   weird PeopleSmart and I think that's why I don't think that's an accident I know [TS]

00:18:22   a lot of Engineers an apple or at least a couple license a lot I know a couple [TS]

00:18:25   of those who don't have any degree at all [TS]

00:18:28   and I would say a lot who have degrees and things other than computer science [TS]

00:18:34   physics lot of physics I mean I don't have any both Indy and people at Apple [TS]

00:18:40   you know people who went to school for physics and we're programming on the [TS]

00:18:45   side and then just got sucked into it and it just was irrelevant to their job [TS]

00:18:49   prospects at Apple that they didn't have a computer science degree or you know [TS]

00:18:54   whatever school wasn't texting in nicholson's new book on undressing Meyer [TS]

00:18:59   where she was she was dismissive of because she didn't have a college degree [TS]

00:19:07   I i remember i havent ready and able and ready to exert there is something though [TS]

00:19:12   where she was you know she's sort of just turned her nose up at somebody else [TS]

00:19:17   just because the person had didn't have a college degree [TS]

00:19:21   Biol Google is notorious for having a very strong bias towards you know toward [TS]

00:19:31   your degree in your GPA in particular from Stanford and I think a lot of one [TS]

00:19:35   of the valley is and it's one of those things where I think the problem with it [TS]

00:19:39   is is it raises the floor for who you hire like you're gonna get someone that [TS]

00:19:43   smart and capable but anytime you raise the four year olds alluring the ceiling [TS]

00:19:47   because you're kind of constraining constrain your options and someone fits [TS]

00:19:52   in a box like you're not going to get out of the box thinking I mean and I [TS]

00:19:57   think Apple at least in my personal experience in from people that I saw [TS]

00:20:01   their info I talked to you in this is a university like the way Apple things [TS]

00:20:06   what hiring [TS]

00:20:08   putting much more value on non-school stuff and and and if they're smart and [TS]

00:20:15   if they're kinda weird and they've done interesting things than that someone [TS]

00:20:19   that were injured in and if they spent their whole day's going going to schools [TS]

00:20:24   and heavy I GPA [TS]

00:20:26   may be useful but it's always more of a more of a challenge in some respects [TS]

00:20:32   yeah the other thing to do you like that whole asserting who's the smartest [TS]

00:20:38   person in the room like I've heard this and other people too but this is a [TS]

00:20:41   premium personal experience I way back when I'm close to 10 years ago like [TS]

00:20:46   eight years ago when I was a joint we had a meeting with the app or just you [TS]

00:20:52   know what you guys are working on this is one joint was not a hosting company [TS]

00:20:56   when we were doing like a web based email calendar contacts syncing type [TS]

00:21:05   thing and it was you know was a pleasant meeting it was a scene so maybe like 30 [TS]

00:21:12   40 minutes but it was like the opposite of anybody trying to assert who is the [TS]

00:21:16   smartest all they wanted to do was listen that's it they had they had [TS]

00:21:20   questioned but there was absolutely no it was the opposite was almost like [TS]

00:21:24   creepy how much they were just observing and listening to us and revealing [TS]

00:21:29   nothing about themselves [TS]

00:21:32   yeah we want to get into like wait read way too much into this like we probably [TS]

00:21:37   already are but if you want to take it full speed ahead of where the best [TS]

00:21:41   things will be an intern at Apple is they have this like this in turn lecture [TS]

00:21:44   series where basically the executive team a different team for lunch they [TS]

00:21:50   come in for an hour and they talked some some some just talked all times I'm give [TS]

00:21:54   presentations others do Q&A so it was i mean two hours do jobs an hour to an [TS]

00:21:59   hour with the seller like Ron Ron Ron Johnson like it was an incredible [TS]

00:22:05   experience like worth the internship alone by the [TS]

00:22:09   there was wide that was really interesting because this person came in [TS]

00:22:12   and he was obviously the smartest person in the room and he was also determined [TS]

00:22:22   to make sure that everyone knew who the smartest person in the room is the [TS]

00:22:27   person no longer I'll give you one guess as to whose personal guessing it was [TS]

00:22:32   good for us it was like i watch them yeah I told a friend of mine and we will [TS]

00:22:38   meet up this way after he left a polite we as we talked what r afterwards I was [TS]

00:22:42   so it was a jarring [TS]

00:22:45   Hughes so but it was just such a turnoff to listen to him talk especially [TS]

00:22:53   relative to other executives and if you will run again you know for your [TS]

00:22:59   personal the same for listeners but there's a Stanford guy and and I don't [TS]

00:23:06   know if I wasn't as well as things were when he left I was shocked but I was not [TS]

00:23:11   surprised because of that that was aware that there was a mean I've heard stuff I [TS]

00:23:20   knew that it was i mean I knew that he was a difficult person to to work with [TS]

00:23:24   the grapevine by Tom I i misses him to be honest are by III also was not was [TS]

00:23:32   not surprised I agree with that I do too I think it's easy like I laughed and [TS]

00:23:37   said I knew I didn't like was it was forced off but I think he's an extremely [TS]

00:23:44   complicated figure and I think explaining his role in Apple's success [TS]

00:23:48   over the last fifteen years is extremely complicated and there's absolutely no [TS]

00:23:53   way to paint it black or white and say he is mass they suck without him or it [TS]

00:24:01   was easy no-brainer to get rid of good riddance to bad rubbish it is so so many [TS]

00:24:07   different in now integrate its just so many interweaves streaks of black and [TS]

00:24:13   white [TS]

00:24:14   absolutely good part by part good part part now he's a mean he is [TS]

00:24:20   is on the top five list of people most responsible for Apple being where it is [TS]

00:24:24   today I think part of it was that I think he always had and I don't you know [TS]

00:24:28   again I met him once you know after a keynote and we had like half hour [TS]

00:24:31   discussion and it was great [TS]

00:24:33   any was just me and him in hand on area and it was clearly a reader my site very [TS]

00:24:41   complimentary of my work and we just talked about some cool stuff and you [TS]

00:24:46   know it was no showing off his stuff and nobody was very very brain it was [TS]

00:24:50   actually around the time of 10 Dec 2010 [TS]

00:24:58   yeah i phone 4 yes iPhone 4 and the iPad was like four months old and a lot of [TS]

00:25:09   this stuff we're getting kids but it's actually ever to everybody but [TS]

00:25:14   especially kids with autism and problems like that were found to be doing [TS]

00:25:21   sensational staff communication wise with iPhones and now with the big iPad [TS]

00:25:27   which really helps with fine motor control kozyrev bigger targets that it [TS]

00:25:31   was a huge thing he was so amazingly engaged in this you know that is not [TS]

00:25:36   like hey how to make the company another ten billion dollars [TS]

00:25:40   you know it's clearly a small segment of the overall market for iPads and I found [TS]

00:25:46   but he was super super engaged on it and thought we'd is cool discussion about [TS]

00:25:51   how that a lot of the things that they design not think they did you know all [TS]

00:25:56   these things fell out of things to do just that we're cool for regular people [TS]

00:25:59   but it ends up being you know super great for people with autism but it's [TS]

00:26:06   it's this whole that his conclusion he said that they were looking into it to [TS]

00:26:11   try to prove it just do it is that it's just about a leave you know eliminating [TS]

00:26:16   a layer of abstraction that that whole thing where you move mouse which needs [TS]

00:26:21   an hour on the screen [TS]

00:26:22   and you do it you know once you get used to using computers you know you just [TS]

00:26:26   forget about it but that people with autism can never get past it that it's [TS]

00:26:30   this abstraction that just their brains don't make the connection and when they [TS]

00:26:35   can put their finger right on that button on the screen and tap it it's [TS]

00:26:39   it's not just like a little bit easier it's the difference between unable to [TS]

00:26:45   make the connection in completely able to make the connection and that other [TS]

00:26:49   people who can use a mouse and don't have any sort of impairment like that [TS]

00:26:53   they you know they might they they don't really think about the fact that the [TS]

00:26:57   iPad's a lot easier for the iPhones a lot easier but that it ends up that [TS]

00:27:01   subconsciously without thinking about it is and it actually is why they would [TS]

00:27:07   prefer using it now I i think is a great conversation and and the gist of it was [TS]

00:27:12   just he just was talking with just me and him talking and it was great and I [TS]

00:27:16   thought he was great and I also know also not just at the other thing is that [TS]

00:27:20   there are tons of people ton of people who worked under him at Apple who loved [TS]

00:27:25   him love and love working under he was demanding but that it was it was [TS]

00:27:30   absolutely not he was very well and the other thing to the heard time and time [TS]

00:27:38   again was it [TS]

00:27:39   people who worked under him always had the sense that he had their back right [TS]

00:27:43   right that's like getting out there not only thing is I actually think I I'm not [TS]

00:27:49   sure by thinking that talk I think actually did talk a lot was the same [TS]

00:27:52   summer 2010 I was there and so maybe was on his mind I think he talked a lot [TS]

00:27:56   about the accessibility stuff and I i think im not sure but I think I've heard [TS]

00:28:00   that he was really the driving force for iOS being so advanced when it came to [TS]

00:28:05   accessibility like for the blind and play well it certainly wasn't complete [TS]

00:28:10   advocate for it I get total a dream he may not have been the driving force be [TS]

00:28:15   put his advocacy behind it just in general I mean I i really think like [TS]

00:28:20   this is where I think missus amateur parts I think one is is like his ability [TS]

00:28:27   to a guy I do think that I was was incredibly [TS]

00:28:34   given given what always was not be at all and was really good I think there's [TS]

00:28:42   a discussion we had about some stuff but too I think he had a real passion and [TS]

00:28:49   push for usability and accessibility not not just for like disabled but for [TS]

00:28:56   normal people and like and so much of the original iPhone OS that was so [TS]

00:29:01   natural and so obvious in that obvious pneus it's obvious when you use it but [TS]

00:29:07   it's not obviously designed it requires tons of generation and tons of pushback [TS]

00:29:11   in doing it again again and certainly jobs was was the head of this in the [TS]

00:29:16   input for this but this was where this is where in particular I think for so [TS]

00:29:21   really channel jobs and certainly iowa's now as they especially now once were [TS]

00:29:27   used to work much better than the old iPhone OS but I still think there's lots [TS]

00:29:33   of areas where there are more difficult to use it more difficult in a knot in [TS]

00:29:36   that they're less obvious and i think is missing still I think a way that you get [TS]

00:29:43   there is not so much being able to find the truly simple seemingly obvious way [TS]

00:29:51   to do it it's more of the refusal to accept the complicated the complex the [TS]

00:29:59   this isn't it isn't clear how you do it but you you know you start you think a [TS]

00:30:04   you know here's how will lay out the new calendar app for iOS aid and will do [TS]

00:30:08   this and this and that sounds good and you build it and use it and it's like [TS]

00:30:11   but I'm kind of confused they just show a list of events and eventually though [TS]

00:30:16   you can get used to it and you can just say well you can do everything right now [TS]

00:30:20   I've been testing it long enough I know it good enough let ship it whereas I [TS]

00:30:24   think forestall and again like you say channeling jobs had an ability to say [TS]

00:30:29   this isn't good enough this shit we've gotta start over this you know this can [TS]

00:30:33   be tweaked we can't just move about in here we've got to throw this out because [TS]

00:30:37   the whole thing is just not brain that clear yet so hard as well as you can get [TS]

00:30:45   you can just talk yourself into accepting something that's not quite [TS]

00:30:47   clear so hard when you're immersed in it so hard to look at something through the [TS]

00:30:53   eyes of a new user or a novice user like that's that's a truly like a skill and a [TS]

00:30:58   gift that very few people including myself I think you know have because [TS]

00:31:05   what you're just used to it and so he becomes a blind spot yeah I guess I take [TS]

00:31:13   a break right here [TS]

00:31:14   thank our first sponsor and it's our good friends at fracture remember [TS]

00:31:20   fracture fracture is the company that you send them your photos they print [TS]

00:31:25   your photos directly on pieces of glass not on a piece of paper that's under [TS]

00:31:31   glass frame they said I don't know what they do they've got some kind of [TS]

00:31:34   proprietary technology is amazing [TS]

00:31:37   a print your photo right on the glass the effect in person is like the analog [TS]

00:31:44   equivalent of these modern retina displays where the LCD is laminated to [TS]

00:31:51   the touch [TS]

00:31:52   center where it looks like the pixels are right on the glass that's what your [TS]

00:31:56   photo looks like when you get it back from fracture really really cool they [TS]

00:32:02   have a home in two sizes everything from small square ones to really really big [TS]

00:32:06   ones and they ship them in these amazing it's almost worth ordering your first [TS]

00:32:11   thing from fractured just to see how they ship them because the box is the [TS]

00:32:15   frame is the stand it's all sort of integrated and there's like a total [TS]

00:32:21   minimal amount of wasted cardboard but when you get out if you wanna hang it on [TS]

00:32:26   a wall or you wanna property under desk all that stuff is all built in [TS]

00:32:30   to what you get to you don't need to take this thing and then put a frame [TS]

00:32:34   around it or put it in a frame or do anything like that [TS]

00:32:37   everything you need to like say hanging on the wall or propped up on your desk [TS]

00:32:41   is all built in to the packaging really cool looking so you can do it and then [TS]

00:32:46   it borderless so it just isn't just has a great effect very very aesthetically [TS]

00:32:51   pleasing under desk or on your wall and the quality is just top notch I really [TS]

00:33:00   really love the way pictures from this is a great gift if you haven't tried [TS]

00:33:06   your do not it's really really good way and you know I think they're big pitch [TS]

00:33:12   you know is that as we go [TS]

00:33:15   more and more digital diddle diddle diddle with her photography we lose [TS]

00:33:19   touch of humanity of getting analog prints of your family and friends and [TS]

00:33:27   you know event from your life that you want to remember and the way that we [TS]

00:33:32   used to in the old days all the best photos we had of course analog digital [TS]

00:33:36   we had and you have to hang on your wall or on your desk or incremental so it's a [TS]

00:33:42   great way to do that [TS]

00:33:44   take your best pictures get them printed out and there's no better way to do it [TS]

00:33:49   than tractor so where do you go to find out more [TS]

00:33:52   well their website is add fracture frac ture me.com fracture me.com and they [TS]

00:34:02   have a special code just for listeners of the show [TS]

00:34:05   daring fireball all one word during fireball you'll save five bucks off your [TS]

00:34:11   order if you use that code verifiable so my thanks to fracture go get some [TS]

00:34:17   pictures as you mentioned the [TS]

00:34:21   like the analog meter of photos did you see that that iPhone app that basically [TS]

00:34:27   let you take what you take a picture but it doesn't show you the picture taken it [TS]

00:34:31   and once you've taken 24 pictures you can pay to have them mailed to you in [TS]

00:34:36   like printed out you know I did see something like this is like maybe a [TS]

00:34:41   couple weeks ago [TS]

00:34:42   yeah it's called White Album I think I'm gonna just did a quick search White [TS]

00:34:46   Album I think so the out white white white album out dot com suppressant [TS]

00:34:53   beetles in some ways that sounds terrible it's interesting you like good [TS]

00:35:04   I thought it was exactly like ours is so great it's a wonderful and it's like and [TS]

00:35:10   you certainly that is that it sounds great when you tweet it I'm not sure be [TS]

00:35:14   very great next real life and I also feel that there's something about a [TS]

00:35:24   digital viewfinder even though the iPhone viewfinder is using your iPhone [TS]

00:35:29   if you find her and holding it up and the camera is so much bigger than what [TS]

00:35:33   you'd see what I can analog old analog film camera when you look through the [TS]

00:35:37   eyepiece but because it's a center there's something about it that makes it [TS]

00:35:42   harder to frame exactly what you want I don't know why I feel like if I tried [TS]

00:35:48   this I would not take as good of pictures as I would if I were using my [TS]

00:35:52   old thirty five-millimeter SLR looking through the viewfinder [TS]

00:35:55   well yeah i know i cant champ and look at the pictures as I take them but I [TS]

00:36:00   feel like I would get better pictures that way cuz I'm looking through an [TS]

00:36:03   actual analog viewfinder and there's no lag whatsoever no I agree and it [TS]

00:36:08   actually I just think about it when I use my my like i i i dont look at the [TS]

00:36:13   photo I took most the time was I mite worried about the exposure something [TS]

00:36:17   right unless you notice something really weird like man this is there's such [TS]

00:36:20   strong backlighting like these people you know there's no way to get on the [TS]

00:36:23   other side of them in the Sun is behind them [TS]

00:36:26   I want to double check that this isn't just going to show up as a software [TS]

00:36:29   right exactly exactly a juicy I take it and then we'll get it whenever I [TS]

00:36:34   whatever I used to get frustrated I don't even remember the last time I long [TS]

00:36:39   to hear but I used to use Hipstamatic a lot because I thought they had for a [TS]

00:36:43   while I thought they had the best filters by far but its somatic had they [TS]

00:36:49   were halfway in that regard where they didn't let you apply filters to photos [TS]

00:36:54   you'd already taken and they didn't let you change the filters on photos taken [TS]

00:36:58   you had to set your gimmicky fake lands and your gimmicky fake film and then [TS]

00:37:05   whatever you took you got interesting I'd ever I never really used it it ended [TS]

00:37:11   I it it's you know and it was all in the name of this sort of well for lack of a [TS]

00:37:17   better term school more effect pretending that you're at the [TS]

00:37:20   Hipstamatic app was a film camera you know and have different lands computer [TS]

00:37:25   you can I find a film you really like and then you put a different lens on and [TS]

00:37:27   it gives it a slightly I think that the film's always had the strongest effect [TS]

00:37:32   on the filtering in the lenders a little secondary but you can get different [TS]

00:37:35   effects but you couldn't see until after you took photo and it was a Renault and [TS]

00:37:40   if you took one and it was like your [TS]

00:37:42   you had it set up to look really good outside on a sunny day in pictures were [TS]

00:37:46   nice and warm and had a nice night gimmicky filter look but just you know [TS]

00:37:50   pleasing look and then you went indoors in the same combination look bad you [TS]

00:37:55   were at like so many taps and turning the camera around in switching the film [TS]

00:37:59   is crazy when I just let me do this after taking the photos it in do you [TS]

00:38:06   think about that with with Instagram records you use unlike an initial pass [TS]

00:38:12   you would think that they're gonna be there there in the same category but I [TS]

00:38:16   mean Instagram is is an amazing nap in service because it's it's really forward [TS]

00:38:24   in when you get that is like Instagram it was kind of the first really pure we [TS]

00:38:31   were built for a mobile phone and part that's in the workflow you just take a [TS]

00:38:36   picture and then you apply the filter and yeah maybe if I applying a key she [TS]

00:38:40   secure morphic type filter but it fits with the way you actually take pictures [TS]

00:38:45   on a phone [TS]

00:38:46   yeah and then the alleged beyond that the actual service you know only royal [TS]

00:38:50   working on a phone in having a bare-bones website at best for a very [TS]

00:38:54   long time even today it's pretty bare-bones like they've they've always [TS]

00:38:58   been a mobile-first company that is those daughter on the phone with the [TS]

00:39:03   assumption that you're going to use your phone and I think it's a big part of why [TS]

00:39:06   you know they've been so successful yeah aesthetic side there's no doubt [TS]

00:39:11   Instagram I wouldn't call it a rip off I would just say that the Date II [TS]

00:39:14   Hipstamatic lunch where there is so much that they they just took from [TS]

00:39:20   Hipstamatic [TS]

00:39:20   the square the only side the only the only size you are [TS]

00:39:24   ratio you can have a square [TS]

00:39:27   somatic has has had a no fake borders to make you know some of the film's [TS]

00:39:34   depending on what phone you had had like polaroids style borders which if you [TS]

00:39:38   recall Instagram had for like the first couple of years of its existence right [TS]

00:39:42   you know the basic the base that look like like not just you know that the [TS]

00:39:49   film's tended to look like old analog instant films all of that you know [TS]

00:39:56   Instagram just borrowed from Hipstamatic or followed Hipstamatic lead but they [TS]

00:40:02   did that in a better way because they they took advantage of they they did all [TS]

00:40:08   the things I said that made people like that look they do you know that's all [TS]

00:40:12   the you know just the pleasure gives you two have photos from your camera that [TS]

00:40:16   look like that and that made you know just look cool or look better or [TS]

00:40:20   whatever you want to say look deeper with none of the none of the goofy [TS]

00:40:27   restrictions the Hipstamatic imposed in the name of just pure hips tourism you [TS]

00:40:32   know the whole once you've set a filter you know you have to take the filter the [TS]

00:40:35   photo with the filter and if you don't like it tough take another photo whereas [TS]

00:40:39   Instagram will let you pick camera images from your camera roll they would [TS]

00:40:43   let you change the filter if you're already taken in Instagram etc and then [TS]

00:40:48   you know multiply that by a hundred fold by having the genius of turning it into [TS]

00:40:53   a twitter-like social network right [TS]

00:40:55   glad that you know but it's all part of it i mean if I think that if they had [TS]

00:40:59   lines without filters at all it would have taken a lot longer may not have [TS]

00:41:03   taken off thats whats O'Brien about about it [TS]

00:41:07   Instagram as a social network is they did there was a reason to use Instagram [TS]

00:41:12   from day one you do you have any friends and that that's what's so hard about [TS]

00:41:16   getting off the ground is is just finding people are discovering people [TS]

00:41:21   and even Twitter today has this problem where people get on there and they don't [TS]

00:41:25   have many followers in now traders cut off from the Facebook you know kind of [TS]

00:41:28   connection feed and it's like so I'm just like 40 in the win here like who's [TS]

00:41:32   listening to what I have to say where is with Instagram like you're getting value [TS]

00:41:37   you can get value from Instagram even if you have 0 followers yes even if your [TS]

00:41:42   Instagram feed is more or less just your own photos from now when nobody's [TS]

00:41:45   looking at in there you can send you know email them and keep them and you [TS]

00:41:49   know right maybe it's because the filters I mean they're they're cool and [TS]

00:41:53   then they will need and and no I read the other is just in general I think you [TS]

00:41:58   just said something along these lines is appreciating a product is so much more [TS]

00:42:04   than just like the actual like like Instagram is successful yet maybe they [TS]

00:42:09   borrowed the the filter concept and a lot of was very similar Hipstamatic but [TS]

00:42:15   that's not an it's very easy it's stuck on that in like comparing companies are [TS]

00:42:20   to bring products on the sort of stuff but the whole earth like the whole thing [TS]

00:42:24   is the product of its [TS]

00:42:26   it solve it and even even with Instagram Ruak is they are low how they're gonna [TS]

00:42:31   make money in the future in the long run that's going to be part of the product [TS]

00:42:34   Linda like it's much more there's all these different facets that go into [TS]

00:42:38   ensure some companies are probably someone one facet of you very different [TS]

00:42:42   other ones in maybe those different things and making the difference [TS]

00:42:45   give any insight on this a couple weeks ago down from her was on the show and he [TS]

00:42:50   it's been so long that I almost forgotten the complained that Instagram [TS]

00:42:55   still doesn't have an iPad up I do actually I i think it's I think it's ok [TS]

00:43:01   I mean I understand I understand the the objection but I think it comes back to [TS]

00:43:07   Instagram being being a a phone first outbreak that that's where awake so just [TS]

00:43:14   from a very kind of narrow perspective I think it's grim still sees more benefit [TS]

00:43:20   from working on improving their phone apps and they do on building building an [TS]

00:43:24   iPad app 12 the problem I mean now that people use iPads cameras this isn't as [TS]

00:43:32   quite a strong idea but I think this was component in streams that he is more [TS]

00:43:36   than almost israel's like facebook in that there is a very solid balance [TS]

00:43:42   between creating content and consuming content whereas Twitter I think a lot of [TS]

00:43:47   people might just consumer they're really put stuff out there where where [TS]

00:43:52   is in ceramic people use it to make stuff and they use it to get stuff and I [TS]

00:43:57   think I almost think it's an outdated view of the iPad I think in a lot of [TS]

00:44:01   ways and especially when it comes to photography the iPad is a lot more big [TS]

00:44:07   iPhone then then tablet laptop I do think so especially for your for certain [TS]

00:44:16   segments of the population I mean it's my mom's primary camera you like to go [TS]

00:44:20   into your mom but literally it's my mom's primary primary there's too many [TS]

00:44:25   people like that I you know every time I go to a used to I used to make a note [TS]

00:44:29   and I used to even when we go to Disney World [TS]

00:44:31   like a year or two ago I would just snap photos of people using tablets as as [TS]

00:44:37   cameras just as I got things to do while walking around the park and I didn't [TS]

00:44:42   publish them anywhere to make fun of them but I just had them privately and [TS]

00:44:45   see how many how many brothers of people using their tablet has a camera can I [TS]

00:44:49   rack up in a day in my son you know my son used to laugh that was the stupidest [TS]

00:44:54   happy to have it did you ever know but I can usually get like 20 in a day and [TS]

00:44:59   then I just deleted it sorry could even do anymore you'd you'd never get you and [TS]

00:45:04   be able to get from point A to point B it's it is commonly seen somebody using [TS]

00:45:08   the phone has a camera and there's too many people who you know they just don't [TS]

00:45:11   see the distinction like I don't even see be by then when I first tried to get [TS]

00:45:15   off I tried to get off my own high horse about making fun of people using tablets [TS]

00:45:19   as cameras may like a year ago or so I still get pushback from my listeners of [TS]

00:45:27   the show command it stupid looking now I don't even get that everybody it's just [TS]

00:45:31   some ken and I feel like it's almost ridiculous for a nap thats photo centric [TS]

00:45:35   like Instagram not to be native on what is for a lot of people their primary [TS]

00:45:40   camera in hand for the consumption side consuming photos it's always better to [TS]

00:45:44   be bigger so it would you know to look at your friends photos it's always going [TS]

00:45:48   bigger and bigger on the biggest device you know that's very I like I think your [TS]

00:45:54   point is right that the that that justification may have made sense but it [TS]

00:45:59   makes increasingly western states that said they did their part of Facebook [TS]

00:46:03   days they have access to numbers in where what people are using and where [TS]

00:46:08   they're using it so I would imagine it's a it's not a uninformed [TS]

00:46:12   the third factor is that it's different I think any iOS a tiara with the two fun [TS]

00:46:20   with the new phones because the difference between making an iPad app [TS]

00:46:25   and an iPhone is nowhere near as different as it used to be like it's [TS]

00:46:31   it's really more in with these if you doing it the right way [TS]

00:46:36   if you can support the multiple iPhones sizes there's almost no reason you [TS]

00:46:42   should be supporting the iPad to the same thing it's no longer to big things [TS]

00:46:47   it's these different you know what I can scaling factors or whatever is going on [TS]

00:46:52   I think there is a resolution issue I know some people have raised there is a [TS]

00:46:55   possible reason as well like this room for those are two super low resolution [TS]

00:46:59   in my crap on the iPad [TS]

00:47:03   gonna get off the ground by utilizing like the iPhone 3G camera [TS]

00:47:09   yeah so my guess is it's coming but it's it's almost it's almost as you know it's [TS]

00:47:15   almost like they're doing it on purpose at this point because they do support [TS]

00:47:18   the native iPhone 6 sizes in six-plus you know and I would suggest as as a [TS]

00:47:24   iPad app just you know i i think thats a nap we don't have to you know that I [TS]

00:47:29   just asked just a just a natively scaled version of the iPhone app would be just [TS]

00:47:34   fine you don't have to redesign interrelated out or do something [TS]

00:47:37   different so I mean their website is basically a a scaled-up version of the [TS]

00:47:41   iPhone app like it's literally just like a comma photos that that might as well [TS]

00:47:45   be the output on open webpage yeah I think the more I get my guess is the [TS]

00:47:50   explanation is that I think that you know there are very conservative company [TS]

00:47:54   has a weird thing or a four-year-old what five-year-old startup that is part [TS]

00:48:01   of Facebook and that is you know gone from thirteen people to you know billion [TS]

00:48:07   dollar acquisition to a multi-billion dollar asset in just a handful of years [TS]

00:48:14   usually don't think of such companies as being conservative but they are they're [TS]

00:48:17   very very conservative in my opinion we can only sign ways you can really see [TS]

00:48:21   that you can argue we see the conservatism in the fact that they [TS]

00:48:23   sought out so early right and you know yeah I would say that's actually part of [TS]

00:48:28   the conservatism and I would say the biggest sign of it is just how close [TS]

00:48:32   what they have today is to what they shipped with the first day like it's you [TS]

00:48:38   know they've definitely added a bunch of features in the rewritten the filters [TS]

00:48:41   but it's more or less the same thing you would be someone who got to who like on [TS]

00:48:47   the day that Instagram came out for iPhone and just Institute body are you [TS]

00:48:55   know I just downloaded it got into it and said I love this I love this [TS]

00:48:59   Instagram thing and just consumed the whole album understood the whole thing [TS]

00:49:03   and if you took today is Instagram to that person five years ago for years ago [TS]

00:49:07   whatever it is they would be right at home they have like two or three new [TS]

00:49:12   things too like that score but that's it it's a good point there's very few [TS]

00:49:18   companies are you can say that about yeah when it gets the genius of the [TS]

00:49:23   genius of the other the whole entire concept to write think about how [TS]

00:49:26   different Twitter today like logging into twitter.com and what you're exposed [TS]

00:49:31   to compare to what you were you know five years ago [TS]

00:49:35   very different what else is in the news before we get too big picture stuff see [TS]

00:49:40   box had their IPO today they did and it popped very nicely I which is great for [TS]

00:49:46   them I i kind of suspect that they they underpriced a little on purpose just [TS]

00:49:51   because there's been so much there's been a bit of a cloud on the company for [TS]

00:49:54   the last year which is not which is not a good thing to have your trying to sell [TS]

00:49:59   into very large enterprises in assure them that you're gonna you can hold on [TS]

00:50:02   to other data for the long run [TS]

00:50:04   whereas now I think they're going to come out of this is going to be a ton of [TS]

00:50:08   good news while you were fantastic the market loves them and I think it's going [TS]

00:50:13   to be really good for them from me just a sales momentum perspective so I won't [TS]

00:50:18   be suspected when I won't be surprised if they continue their private leaving [TS]

00:50:22   money on the table by but that they deemed kind of the shift in perception [TS]

00:50:28   that this will result in to be to be worth it [TS]

00:50:31   yeah the psychology of an IPO is so weird because it's like dealing in some [TS]

00:50:36   sense you want to price their IPO exactly what the market is gonna [TS]

00:50:41   value-add because otherwise you're leaving money on the table [TS]

00:50:44   but then you're at it from your investor's perspective there's a [TS]

00:50:48   financial drive to underpriced your IPO so that all those investor shares go up [TS]

00:50:56   in value once the market prices it I think I think it I think it I think it [TS]

00:51:00   matters and the people you take like Facebook Twitter and Facebook basically [TS]

00:51:05   then pop it all and then over time actually wind down and pretend there's a [TS]

00:51:09   lot of people who look at it from a narrow perspective and say well Facebook [TS]

00:51:12   did it just right they captured every available cent and in the end though get [TS]

00:51:17   Twitter in Twitter had a huge pop and they like older screwed up a level of [TS]

00:51:21   money on the table but I think if you actually look at it like Facebook was [TS]

00:51:25   under a ton of pressure right after IPO and I think they were constrained like [TS]

00:51:30   strategically like I i suspect that on Facebook should about ways for example [TS]

00:51:35   the mapping out but I think that one reason they didn't is they can't really [TS]

00:51:40   justify spending over a billion dollars when they were under so much pressure [TS]

00:51:44   from from investors [TS]

00:51:46   examines the height of like Facebook is doomed mania with their stock dipped [TS]

00:51:51   like a third of what what did I filled out our half whatever whereas twitter [TS]

00:51:56   twitter arguably has kind of been a disaster since they appealed [TS]

00:52:01   almost everywhere earnings calls been been worse than the last [TS]

00:52:04   yet yes there's pressure and there's been a lot of talk about Costello and [TS]

00:52:08   stuff like that this year particular but I don't think it's been nearly to the [TS]

00:52:13   degree that it will probably deserves to be perfectly honest I think part of it [TS]

00:52:18   is because the stock is still up from the IPO like that it it weakens are you [TS]

00:52:22   work out yet the stocks down from its high but it's still higher than when it [TS]

00:52:26   IPO that I think that that that that matters it in if wears a Twitter was [TS]

00:52:30   down like Facebook was down and had WAY worse fundamentals than Facebook ever [TS]

00:52:35   had been like this this guy would be falling to a much greater degree than it [TS]

00:52:40   is right now in and there's also something like the incalculable part is [TS]

00:52:44   the PR value of an IPO that pops as you say [TS]

00:52:48   absolutely like net net netscape [TS]

00:52:54   maybe the canonical example I don't know but it gave this sense that netscape was [TS]

00:53:01   the future that however much money left on the table because the IPO popped on [TS]

00:53:06   day one was worth I don't know I think tens of millions of dollars in the [TS]

00:53:11   perception of you know holy shit there's a new tech industry Titan in town [TS]

00:53:16   absolutely and there's room for hiring a marriage for morale and it matters for [TS]

00:53:22   like you know me the stock market a lot of it is about perception and it's the [TS]

00:53:27   popping is like oh my god everybody else thinks this company is going to kick ass [TS]

00:53:30   right in that sticks with you like it matters win like it did the bad news [TS]

00:53:38   doesn't matter the way people perceive the bad news is what matters and if [TS]

00:53:44   people come out with the assumption that this is a valuable company people are [TS]

00:53:48   excited about all that's ok though they'll get over it [TS]

00:53:51   whereas if it's at this company man runs down in peace bad news comes as a call [TS]

00:53:55   man this is terrible and like I said that you saw that with Facebook which in [TS]

00:54:01   retrospect we was ridiculous you know now that now the stock is is well up [TS]

00:54:08   from its IPO stage but it took it took a lot longer than it should have forgotten [TS]

00:54:13   the the perception of Facebook to change in arguing I think even in the value I i [TS]

00:54:18   feel like Facebook is is still seriously under appreciated for what a force it is [TS]

00:54:25   not just not just as as a service in a nap but as a financial as a business [TS]

00:54:32   yeah I agree with them and I think [TS]

00:54:36   it's funny cause as complicated as Facebook itself as a product is in my [TS]

00:54:42   opinion it's a pretty simple story financially it's you know they sell out [TS]

00:54:48   ads in the feed and make people pay to get placement and because everybody uses [TS]

00:54:54   it it's worth it and therefore you know the money is growing whereas twitter is [TS]

00:55:02   a much simpler product and any kind of argument they try to make as to how they [TS]

00:55:06   gonna make money is my eyes roll back in my head and I fall asleep cause I don't [TS]

00:55:11   understand that there is something to that and I think the the the Facebook ad [TS]

00:55:16   unit is like the best ad unit in in like intact I mean it's like people are [TS]

00:55:21   working at that feed multiple times a day every day more and more and in a [TS]

00:55:26   Facebook ad takes over your entire screen it might only be for a few [TS]

00:55:30   seconds but for a few seconds like your entire screen is filled with an ad which [TS]

00:55:34   on the web was never the case like the ads rose off to the side of their [TS]

00:55:38   accompanying stuff and so they are easy to their much easier to to ignore and [TS]

00:55:42   it's super compelling what things are those you safe [TS]

00:55:45   you say Twitter simple I was wonder if this is a like we talked about with with [TS]

00:55:49   about to forestall [TS]

00:55:51   we're used to it and it it feels simple 140 characters seem simple but then you [TS]

00:55:56   start trying to explain to people like oh don't start with a net mention or [TS]

00:56:00   some people still use or to your empty I guess all these kind of conventions that [TS]

00:56:05   actually understood is pretty complicated and and there's a lot of [TS]

00:56:10   stuff like I think the last really smart think Twitter did from a product [TS]

00:56:15   perspective was the native retweet because that did simplified a convention [TS]

00:56:20   in there so much other stuff that's craft that's risen up like these multi [TS]

00:56:24   tweets are the tweet storms and I call this an attaching photos 22 an image [TS]

00:56:29   like it that the company FM it's so frustrating because they're doing all [TS]

00:56:35   the stuff in there buying these things in there [TS]

00:56:37   we're going to developer tools and all this sort of crap when it's like there's [TS]

00:56:40   so much low-hanging fruit from a product perspective and from an onboarding [TS]

00:56:44   perspective which is still a disaster [TS]

00:56:46   yeah I know you mean it's it's it comes i think you can come across the country [TS]

00:56:50   and my eyes as very jargonese computer jargon me with all the Artis and empties [TS]

00:56:56   and honestly even I think people get that username and it's certainly one of [TS]

00:57:01   them i think is the most powerful asset Twitter has I really do is the fact that [TS]

00:57:05   when you turn on TV doesn't matter whether it's politics or supports its [TS]

00:57:12   like the people who are on TV they tell you their name and they tell you their [TS]

00:57:16   twitter handles and people get that and that is super valuable but I think in [TS]

00:57:23   combined that with hashtags in it to me the whole thing comes across the looking [TS]

00:57:27   very jargonese we could do the whole show on my feelings on hashtags but I [TS]

00:57:33   know I realize they've taken off and I realize that people somewhat get them in [TS]

00:57:36   the regular people do use them but I do feel that it contributes to a visual [TS]

00:57:41   jargon enos when you especially for new users with you you know you look at the [TS]

00:57:46   stuff only see all these weird punctuation characters in and starts to [TS]

00:57:49   look like programming code and the weird shorthand I Guardian emptied yeah now I [TS]

00:57:55   think I think we might help to relieve every time the show but I'm still I i'm [TS]

00:58:01   still like there now they're messing with the time I like there's a while you [TS]

00:58:04   were gone and stuff I honestly think like the timeline is such at this point [TS]

00:58:08   is so much craft associated with it it's fantastic for all of us we are familiar [TS]

00:58:14   with Twitter and used to it but it's pretty intimidating for a new user and I [TS]

00:58:19   i wish they would embrace lists and like have channels in the wake news will come [TS]

00:58:26   under the World Cup in dip into the World Cup channel without having to like [TS]

00:58:30   you wanna wake what's you don't want to follow people in the world cup every day [TS]

00:58:35   of the year you just wanted and there's no dip in and about experience for new [TS]

00:58:40   users on Twitter right now [TS]

00:58:41   yeah I think and I think it kind of gets into some of the stuff that dreams has [TS]

00:58:45   was writing about talking about in the last couple of weeks you know with the [TS]

00:58:49   whole when when Instagram past Twitter in terms of forget the metric monthly [TS]

00:58:57   average user active users and he was like I don't give a shit how many [TS]

00:59:01   monthly active users Instagram as you know and he has great argument and then [TS]

00:59:06   on the line can be taken out of context and make it look like he's arrogant [TS]

00:59:08   whatever and you read as his essay on it on medium and unsurprisingly 47 wins [TS]

00:59:15   very very thoughtful and he's right and it's you know when there's no Twitter [TS]

00:59:20   has important uses that you just could never do on an instrument like when [TS]

00:59:25   there where the uprising in Egypt and stuff like that and people used hashtags [TS]

00:59:31   to get the news out and it you know [TS]

00:59:34   breaking news and stuff like that happens in a way on Twitter that there [TS]

00:59:38   is no equivalent on any other service the stuff in Ferguson's the st. Louis [TS]

00:59:44   demonstrations and stuff like that all had a part on Twitter I mean I think [TS]

00:59:53   that dudes twitter is central to the way that the protesters have organized for [TS]

00:59:58   things like that [TS]

00:59:59   meanders it's just unique but I feel like the thing that twitter twitter [TS]

01:00:03   though you know having dreams doesn't want it anymore and I feel like the [TS]

01:00:06   problem is that Twitter has got a leadership level gotten caught up in [TS]

01:00:11   that sort of Facebook ask monthly average users as an important metric [TS]

01:00:17   which is tied them up because I feel like what Twitter is natural places for [TS]

01:00:22   most people is far more about consumption that about actually tweeting [TS]

01:00:26   right [TS]

01:00:28   whereas Facebook is all about everybody sharing all of their stuff with their [TS]

01:00:31   people you know with their friends and family and stuff like that [TS]

01:00:34   whereas I think the problem is what am I supposed to tweet maybe you're not [TS]

01:00:37   supposed to tweet anything maybe you're just supposed to you know like you said [TS]

01:00:40   get on a list or follow a hashtag for the World Cup or for your favorite team [TS]

01:00:46   or for some sort of news event they are interested in and just follow along and [TS]

01:00:53   you know maybe it's like a hobby that you want to follow all the time or maybe [TS]

01:00:57   it's just i just want to follow the Super Bowl in till next Monday I don't [TS]

01:01:03   want to contribute anything you're not tweeting you're just following along [TS]

01:01:06   know what I said when that happened in scrambling like my take was like I'm [TS]

01:01:10   really sad that we didn't buy Instagram mainly because if they had Instagram [TS]

01:01:17   would make all the money in Twitter could just be Twitter yeah it's a race [TS]

01:01:21   around was gonna make billions of dollars I mean it it's it's like [TS]

01:01:24   facebook but even better where you're going to scroll through your photos [TS]

01:01:27   there's going to be ads in there and you're gonna do anyway because you're [TS]

01:01:30   addicted to it and it and it if it's such it's so it's so obvious and Twitter [TS]

01:01:37   I'm surprised we don't see more ads and Internet I don't know if I've ever seen [TS]

01:01:41   one they know that they announced it in another day had some demo versions over [TS]

01:01:45   but I still like I check it almost everyday and i cant remember seeing an [TS]

01:01:49   ad industry know if there is still likely in very limited sort of trial as [TS]

01:01:54   well as things were Facebook doesn't need to like Facebook is making so much [TS]

01:01:57   money right now that they can I mean they can spend billions of dollars on [TS]

01:02:01   whatever they want to and and not monetize its think it's it's smart not [TS]

01:02:07   just from me they want to do it the right way but it's smart from me they [TS]

01:02:11   can always turn that faucet on if they need to all and end like what's the rush [TS]

01:02:16   the stock market was down there flying high [TS]

01:02:19   they they have like pretty much there as independent as an independent company [TS]

01:02:24   can be for the most part I mean just Romney won the soccer balls them into [TS]

01:02:27   our controls everything anyway so from that perspective you know what's the [TS]

01:02:33   what's the rush and the gist of it as I you know I don't agree with you I'm [TS]

01:02:38   surprised with 2:17 [TS]

01:02:39   just cause I feel like a way to do it is a you know the old slowly boiled frog [TS]

01:02:46   you know starting slow and then slowly dial it up to where you want it to be [TS]

01:02:50   but you gotta start at some point yeah which they have but I think they are [TS]

01:02:58   going slower than they need to just because they can you see Tim quick Tim [TS]

01:03:06   Cook tweeted congratulations on the box [TS]

01:03:09   yeah surprising and I take note of that you know and my cuz Tim Cook tweets and [TS]

01:03:17   almost dead certain that it actually him doing the tweeting but he doesn't treat [TS]

01:03:25   very often right and so it's usually worth noting and I know he tweeted [TS]

01:03:29   earlier in the week or I guess it's almost a week ago now for Martin Luther [TS]

01:03:34   King Day holiday here in the USA and he's repeatedly and you know it did this [TS]

01:03:39   is two heroes are martin luther king in and robert kennedy so no surprise that [TS]

01:03:44   he would tweet something like that I love you know a nice thing for Apple CEO [TS]

01:03:50   tweet but not necessarily newsworthy but I'm tweeting to you know box on an IPO [TS]

01:03:55   is to me a little interesting tolerated under there's a fair bit of speculation [TS]

01:04:00   already and that's what they should just like raised eyebrows yeah I don't know I [TS]

01:04:06   kind of feel like it's an IPO 1 them on an IPO is it certainly doesn't mean that [TS]

01:04:13   box is not going to be acquired by somebody else but it's certainly makes [TS]

01:04:16   it a lot less likely and you know I think Apple is happier in a world where [TS]

01:04:23   more companies like box IPO and stay independent satellites of [TS]

01:04:30   that you know the mammoth Titans like Microsoft and Facebook and Google then a [TS]

01:04:35   world where every company they get to that size and stability get acquired by [TS]

01:04:40   somebody [TS]

01:04:41   absolutely i think is not gonna do those acquisitions right out was never gonna [TS]

01:04:45   be the one that requires a lot of companies and therefore it means that [TS]

01:04:50   most of those companies would be going into companies that are more like [TS]

01:04:57   competitors to Apple's like Google or Microsoft her facebook [TS]

01:05:02   you know what have you know that's how I read a really great that I think that's [TS]

01:05:07   exactly it that's how I read it because I feel like Apple can you know happily [TS]

01:05:14   in wholeheartedly partner with box on things like this you know the extent you [TS]

01:05:18   know that file sharing integration in in Yosemite in iowa and would be a lot less [TS]

01:05:26   likely did you have little box was going to be acquired by Google even though [TS]

01:05:31   it's an open API that everybody can do so I guess who you know have to box [TS]

01:05:36   Dropbox would be next right yeah I think ideal saber Mike formerly samuel was [TS]

01:05:40   like you who he was one of the sky speaking about it he's like well without [TS]

01:05:44   producing for Dropbox I think for the reason you said a absolutely and I think [TS]

01:05:49   when they demoed extensions I think they had both box in Dropbox yes there and I [TS]

01:05:55   think that Apple and its the exact relationship at all [TS]

01:06:01   Apple likes where they did Apple needs them [TS]

01:06:04   yeah yeah yeah I don't think you know how Apple has any desire to crush [TS]

01:06:11   Dropbox really down I mean I know some people read into it and they think you [TS]

01:06:15   know that they would just like everybody to you know they want people to use [TS]

01:06:19   iCloud drive no doubt about it i mean they've made it so people would use it [TS]

01:06:22   but if people would rather use Dropbox instead use Dropbox instead you know [TS]

01:06:25   there's no way that they would go through the work to make things like [TS]

01:06:28   Dropbox official cause you know up until the assembly Dropbox was just a dirty [TS]

01:06:32   hacked integrate with the Finder that's right eventually they they did like [TS]

01:06:36   things for Dropbox in in Yosemite to actually make it work [TS]

01:06:41   yeah it's all officially sanctioned in on the open up those green check boxes [TS]

01:06:45   that show you you know again to find review when you're looking in some in [TS]

01:06:48   your Dropbox Dropbox is the one I use I don't use box I don't use any of the [TS]

01:06:52   other third party ones but I use Dropbox now you get these official green check [TS]

01:06:56   marks that you never got before like when you used to get like the little [TS]

01:07:00   badge on your Finder icon that would show you that a file was thinking to [TS]

01:07:05   drop box and then it would go green when it was there that was all using private [TS]

01:07:10   API's you know dropbox is part and you know to their credit I've been using [TS]

01:07:16   Dropbox from very early days and I'm very loathe always have been loath to [TS]

01:07:20   install third-party extensions that are using private API's on Mac OS 10 but [TS]

01:07:29   dropped by you know Dropbox the features were worth it and but I've always been [TS]

01:07:32   like one foot you know if I ever see problems of the Finder starts going [TS]

01:07:37   wacky you know you're out the door but they never really been a problem now [TS]

01:07:41   they've always been there very very very excellently engineered for something [TS]

01:07:45   that was using private and i also think it's interesting I always thought when [TS]

01:07:51   they announced that WWDC I specifically thought about Dropbox a because on the [TS]

01:07:57   most familiar with them and I use them in be because they had their own thing [TS]

01:08:00   that was working and in my experience and I think most people experience and [TS]

01:08:06   I've never heard anybody say while Dropbox Eunos crash makes my computer [TS]

01:08:09   crash in anything like that or corrupt my file system but they had their own [TS]

01:08:13   thing would they be willing to dump their own thing that it's been all that [TS]

01:08:17   work on to use Apple's thing and they did they've done the right thing and I [TS]

01:08:21   wonder how much of that is you know that they they considered a good allocation [TS]

01:08:25   of engineering resources to go with the official API's in Yosemite and how much [TS]

01:08:29   of it do they still have the old stuff give you can still run Dropbox on Mac OS [TS]

01:08:34   nine [TS]

01:08:35   had a ten-point 10.9 10.8 10.7 I don't have her back to go so they've still got [TS]

01:08:45   to keep their their private API stuff going for their support of older [TS]

01:08:48   versions of Mac OS and so a lot of times I think you know in my experience is [TS]

01:08:53   watching the way the industry has a lot of times and then you know a company [TS]

01:08:56   isn't going to go with the new thing because they want to go with the [TS]

01:08:59   backwards compatible thing even though it's not using a public API but Dropbox [TS]

01:09:03   did the right thing which in my opinion the right thing which is to go with the [TS]

01:09:07   official API even though it's sort of foot forrester code and I wonder how [TS]

01:09:12   much of that was about engineering and how much of it was about politics in [TS]

01:09:15   keeping a good relationship with Apple yeah I mean I would I won't be surprised [TS]

01:09:22   about paul worked with them on it in there is a bit of a quid pro quo here [TS]

01:09:27   like you know you got that it would go like they will help you fix this but you [TS]

01:09:32   have to Dublin day one and I as a user it was seamless I didn't even notice [TS]

01:09:39   when they switched over I think at some point because I you know I've been [TS]

01:09:42   running since the public betas and summer and appreciate the time [TS]

01:09:46   originally I am almost certain that Dropbox didn't already supported I [TS]

01:09:50   didn't even notice I actually didn't notice when dropout started supporting [TS]

01:09:53   it until one day there obviously are because I've got the new style check [TS]

01:10:00   marks not the ones that are superimposed on the icon yeah it's interesting to you [TS]

01:10:07   is that I think Karen Levey I haven't really heard him say a bad word about [TS]

01:10:14   him I think people are just happy that like it's been such a torturous journey [TS]

01:10:18   for box that they they finally made it it's how I would be surprised there's a [TS]

01:10:24   bit of like you know cooks is genuinely happy for him [TS]

01:10:30   gonna take a break before I do it's a good reminder I have a correction to [TS]

01:10:34   make just a minor one that lasts only a show with Mark oh I forgot we were [TS]

01:10:38   talking about but I said something about me running I was nine and I what I meant [TS]

01:10:45   to hide out dial now running I was high and I'm running iOS eight but combine [TS]

01:10:49   that with the things we're like MacRumors has I can increase in the [TS]

01:10:52   number of hits from people running iOS 9 from Cupertino and I got it I dunno a [TS]

01:11:01   dozen emails from people asking whether I'm running iOS nine no I'm not sure if [TS]

01:11:07   I would be able to say anything about it anyway it was just too stupid but the [TS]

01:11:13   verbal typo I don't know misspeak there's a better word well whenever a [TS]

01:11:20   verbal typo is at all it was in the same way that I just said that Dropbox to her [TS]

01:11:24   back last night yes the nineteen video poker tonight number for you I don't [TS]

01:11:31   know what to do I don't know some end and I think Mac OS going to ten-point 10 [TS]

01:11:37   somehow remained crippled amateurs well I said additional verbal typos of things [TS]

01:11:49   so I can just call it a verbal type of works for me what about mental problems [TS]

01:11:56   mount prompt the right word I don't think so but I'm about proper no problem [TS]

01:12:05   is the term for misspoken words there you go [TS]

01:12:07   yeah no problem the mistaken use of the word in place of a similar sounding one [TS]

01:12:11   often with on attention [TS]

01:12:12   well that's not quite right dancing dancer flamingo instead of dancing [TS]

01:12:16   flamenco although I do make it so [TS]

01:12:20   I think I do I think that's a characteristic go like someone that like [TS]

01:12:24   read alot and like you know i mean neither visiting go out that afternoon [TS]

01:12:29   then you see you encounter a lot of words but there were actually comes to [TS]

01:12:33   articulate Heisler previous episode about how we constantly mispronounced [TS]

01:12:40   words yeah yeah you know there's there's a huge chunk of my vocabulary or things [TS]

01:12:46   that I read when I was growing up and never heard anybody say in so I just [TS]

01:12:50   made up my own punctuation are pronunciation in my head [TS]

01:12:53   totally idea of how it was actually supposed to be pronounced anyway our [TS]

01:12:59   second monster is our good friends at need and II ed need is a refined [TS]

01:13:07   retailer in lifestyle publication for men as their official slogan my friend [TS]

01:13:13   Jim ray very well-dressed man knows his stuff really likes this stuff and need [TS]

01:13:20   as described [TS]

01:13:24   need as a refined retailer and lifestyle publication from man who generally don't [TS]

01:13:30   like retailer and lifestyle publications for men which is a great way to put it [TS]

01:13:35   so if you hear lifestyle publication from an Android your eyes like not for [TS]

01:13:41   me maybe you should check out need because it's a different style and vibe [TS]

01:13:45   each month [TS]

01:13:46   here's what me does a source in curated selection of exclusive products from [TS]

01:13:51   brands around the world are presented in a monthly editorial not just a catalog [TS]

01:13:55   they put him in an editorial since they've story around it a lot like what [TS]

01:13:59   you find in a men's magazine allowing you to find the best products without [TS]

01:14:03   any need [TS]

01:14:04   copious shopping research or selection they just launched volume 2.2 featuring [TS]

01:14:12   items to help you make small meaningful changes in your life from amazing coffee [TS]

01:14:18   to better shaving to the best bedside clock point to point to is need best [TS]

01:14:24   collection yet that a good fit [TS]

01:14:27   they've also just launched seven brand new essentials collections featuring the [TS]

01:14:32   best denim but we're more haven't done promotional code yet they're coming they [TS]

01:14:39   are coming they're working on it but in the meantime talk show listeners to [TS]

01:14:44   place an order with need can just send an email to hello at need eEdition dot [TS]

01:14:51   com that's their website need eEdition dot com and place an order [TS]

01:14:59   anywhere then send an email to hello and need addition dot com with the subject [TS]

01:15:04   line [TS]

01:15:05   promo code just put promo code in the subject line and you will receive with [TS]

01:15:10   your order a free bag of freshly roasted coffee or you can get a substitute [TS]

01:15:19   magazine if you're the sort of terrible person who doesn't like coffee and [TS]

01:15:24   you'll get 25% off your next order so just go to need addition dot com and [TS]

01:15:30   need addition dot com slash essentials other things he may be a nurse in the [TS]

01:15:35   library 4th they're launching their first men's and women's collection for [TS]

01:15:39   Valentine's Day coming up soon so if you want to get gifts you'll get 25% off [TS]

01:15:45   your next order when the Valentine's Day stuff comes out and on january 28 [TS]

01:15:50   they're announcing an all new project called for most sign up at foremost [TS]

01:15:56   eEdition dot com in your get early access which will be necessary in this [TS]

01:16:00   instance because they expect to sell out so that any discount any discounts you [TS]

01:16:06   get from sending the email too low in addition to apply there as well [TS]

01:16:10   so sign up for most addition Ofori and the West he eEdition dot com you get [TS]

01:16:16   early access to their next cool project which is sort of secret other than the [TS]

01:16:21   name so my thanks to its weird I feel I feel over the last few weeks I've [TS]

01:16:28   encountered a few people that are that don't drink opera give up coffee and I [TS]

01:16:36   don't understand understand what drives were driving to do such a thing in the [TS]

01:16:42   global I feel great but that just reminds me of the Frank Sinatra could [TS]

01:16:47   what is it I kosyrev you they don't drink because when they wake up in the [TS]

01:16:51   morning that the basic fueled a great line I think about the the BlogHer [TS]

01:17:00   BlogHer BlogHer drinking routine or something like that [TS]

01:17:05   basically you teletype it is by what you're drinking in the morning it's [TS]

01:17:09   coffee then it's like SodaStream and then Scott Soares who died in that [TS]

01:17:15   attack your martini in your case as well I don't think martinis everyday I'm all [TS]

01:17:22   over the place on alcohol and trying to expand my palate I just linked to I'm so [TS]

01:17:27   proud of it i Anna sometimes I really like to I like it when my linking to [TS]

01:17:33   something like blows it up a guy named you see this is kinda Mark III did I put [TS]

01:17:39   in my own problems this big book and they don't they don't ship to that one [TS]

01:17:43   thing the backstory on this is I don't remember where I saw it I don't remember [TS]

01:17:49   and it's a pre order stuff from Amazon I do it all the time it's like sending [TS]

01:17:53   gifts to myself because I always forget they always forget and so is like at [TS]

01:17:59   some point December I got a thing from Amazon and it was close to Christmas [TS]

01:18:03   really close I might have been like the 23rd or something like that and I had no [TS]

01:18:07   pending gifts coming everything I had ordered it already shown up [TS]

01:18:10   got everything done that you know not last minute and and I think a man I [TS]

01:18:15   assumed it was from my wife and instead it was addressed to me from Amazon [TS]

01:18:19   should I don't know I don't have no idea what this is opening up in here it is [TS]

01:18:23   the whiskey cabinet this beautiful beautiful book by Mark and then I [TS]

01:18:27   remembered [TS]

01:18:28   couple months ago i pre-ordered this year it is this book is beautiful it is [TS]

01:18:35   beautiful photography beautiful paper beautiful typography and you know and I [TS]

01:18:41   couldn't wait to read I was very excited and went up and it is so it's such a [TS]

01:18:45   weird coincidence cuz you know I'm terrible I I'll go days I did I [TS]

01:18:48   literally go days without checking my email sometimes it's just talking about [TS]

01:18:53   this like a get less email them like when I worked at Microsoft for example [TS]

01:18:56   way less but it's so much more roberta now because it's not my job is pure [TS]

01:19:01   additive whereas before I lived in it so it was it was like almost more tolerable [TS]

01:19:06   this was a day where I'd gotten caught up on my inbox and I you know down to [TS]

01:19:10   the inbox zero at least through like this week and I do new emails one was [TS]

01:19:16   junk and the other was from Marc by locking as I why that's crazy the same [TS]

01:19:21   guys name isn't on the book and he's like hey you know no idea if interested [TS]

01:19:25   I just written a book ski you may be interested [TS]

01:19:30   no no you know I know no pressure to Lincoln operating I just thought you [TS]

01:19:34   might want a complimentary copy tell me where to send someone literally after it [TS]

01:19:40   right after answered the ding dong of the UPS giving me the book that I'd paid [TS]

01:19:45   for so I snapped a photo with my phone and I was like to late i pre-ordered it [TS]

01:19:48   months ago which is an amazing story anyway long story short I read the book [TS]

01:19:53   and I loved it so I looked it up [TS]

01:19:56   during parable and sold out in like dead like were more from his publisher [TS]

01:20:02   something like that [TS]

01:20:03   know I love you I i can certainly relate I mean I think I mean back when I had my [TS]

01:20:10   first I mean I started her career with the I had a five year plan like I [TS]

01:20:14   thought maybe in five years I could make a living from it and then I will back [TS]

01:20:19   Taiwan in you know which is we want to do and and obviously it's taken off far [TS]

01:20:24   more quickly than than than I anticipated I have not even two years [TS]

01:20:29   old yet but by now be the big the real big jump was told the story that i truly [TS]

01:20:37   believe you linking to it and saying it was great new bloggers like that but it [TS]

01:20:41   was funny about it in sorry about all this one before but I got an email from [TS]

01:20:45   you like saying oh you are you been really prolific really great stuff by [TS]

01:20:51   the way I noticed in you like win on this like three paragraph dissertation [TS]

01:20:55   on a bad word choice I had made the same mistake as well as I actually have a [TS]

01:21:00   script and fix it I do away with the etymology of the word in the house use [TS]

01:21:04   us and it was it was so classic like John Gruber that you know anyone by the [TS]

01:21:10   badge in its own right after that I can open up Google Analytics I saw it [TS]

01:21:14   refreshing your page on the company's going to be like like 30 minutes later [TS]

01:21:18   boom there it was all take the opportunity now being so to thank you [TS]

01:21:25   for that because it certainly was a good no I think I would like $600 on Twitter [TS]

01:21:33   and within a couple days I had 1500 and I was there got white since then but [TS]

01:21:39   that there was certainly kind of the the ignition or jump start so thanks John I [TS]

01:21:45   do that if I see a typo or something like that and something I'm going to [TS]

01:21:48   link to do try to kind and I never know the person at all [TS]

01:21:52   do try to tell them it before but I never say that I'm going to link to it [TS]

01:21:57   because I I don't know if you don't like yourself in [TS]

01:22:01   well partly I don't want to lock myself in what if I change my mind but I think [TS]

01:22:05   you know what does not work and the other part is it somehow sounds a little [TS]

01:22:09   presumptuous its to me it's like if I just say hey you have a typo here it's [TS]

01:22:14   like i'm doing you a favor and pointing it out if I said you know I'm about to [TS]

01:22:18   leave you be of a typo it so it feels a little bit more like I'm not linked into [TS]

01:22:22   into you fix this type of ya right and and I don't want to put that you know I [TS]

01:22:27   don't want to put any pressure on you should find out there were doors look at [TS]

01:22:34   the email later but I am i that made me think that book by Marc by a lot because [TS]

01:22:38   the whole just to the book is it's it's not comprehensive it's not encyclopedia [TS]

01:22:43   is just a sort of I would guess maybe like a hundred whiskies from around the [TS]

01:22:50   world you know [TS]

01:22:51   Scotland Ireland United States Canada Japan and like his expert opinion and [TS]

01:22:58   discussion on what makes the different region you know what are the traditions [TS]

01:23:03   and what makes them different than what you should be looking for sure you know [TS]

01:23:08   if you like one and you know I'm mostly a USB urban ride drinker but you know I [TS]

01:23:16   really liked it and so I've been trying to expand my palate the body not being [TS]

01:23:22   comprehensive like that just makes so much more accessible right again I have [TS]

01:23:28   from years and years ago [TS]

01:23:29   unfortunately coincidental named Michael Jackson is a famous famous beer writer [TS]

01:23:36   like I drank beer a lot more before I got into any kind of spirits [TS]

01:23:39   and it's a useful it's just a different type of book by Michael Jackson has like [TS]

01:23:45   book thats encyclopedic it is no I guess so many microbrews I don't think anybody [TS]

01:23:53   could cover them all but it I think it's probably more like thousands of years [TS]

01:23:56   then hundreds of years ya know yet exactly and I share the fee for the beer [TS]

01:24:02   by the way did find the email I wrote I wrote this jives with data showing [TS]

01:24:08   little gallery in entered purchases I visit dance or an additive for us' black [TS]

01:24:14   slang the word he want his job and this is what killed me if you add verb [TS]

01:24:19   bracket no objective bracket informal be an accord semicolon agree arguing like [TS]

01:24:25   literally a dictionary definition it wasn't like this is what it reads it was [TS]

01:24:30   like they had the nomenclature of a definition that like I know this because [TS]

01:24:35   I have was always to use job with the G when I met je and yes he said you you [TS]

01:24:39   create a Texas better step it to fix it automatically still every time I try to [TS]

01:24:47   use a house used the wrong [TS]

01:24:48   well as you know confusing enough jobs of her means make insulting remarks deer [TS]

01:24:52   which is actually very closely awesome use of diet which is tighter sneer at [TS]

01:24:56   right now very confusing wait so which is the one we want me to say that it's [TS]

01:25:02   an agreement with something jibe GI ve your problem is using CIB and I said [TS]

01:25:07   jail which is like a right right right right yeah actually now that I think [TS]

01:25:13   about it I think I've finally gotten it down and I do tend to tape it right as [TS]

01:25:16   if I had to guess I would have raised their I would have guessed ji be so that [TS]

01:25:22   that's that's the word job that's the tape thingy get when your house with [TS]

01:25:27   your ability to help you determine that whether you find that endearing or just [TS]

01:25:35   absolutely you're dating also some sad news report and that Michael Jackson the [TS]

01:25:40   bureau hundred died in 2006 [TS]

01:25:44   so I can but his his world guide beer I don't know how many years anyway it's [TS]

01:25:53   not that type of book that was cabinet it's like I said 200 I don't book but [TS]

01:26:00   it's just a couple from each region in the style it's too bad for Michael [TS]

01:26:04   Jackson that he never like he did in his life where he was doing michael Jackson [TS]

01:26:08   that's right I guess he died first wow that's really a shame and a little bit [TS]

01:26:18   of that with that Jonathan Gruber his daughter how what percentage of those [TS]

01:26:24   trees did you read to eat i'd say maybe 10% oh wow so it was quite a few and [TS]

01:26:32   they were all areas that was that was a real quick on and off like a weeklong [TS]

01:26:38   fire storm and I do think I thank the maker that the guys name is Jonathan not [TS]

01:26:44   john i dont have it goes by John or what [TS]

01:26:47   first when it first started breaking there was an awful lot more John [TS]

01:26:51   Gruber's and he said you know because it's Jonathan aids jail and so it is [TS]

01:26:54   spelled differently but that's certainly I mean I you know when you are named [TS]

01:27:00   John you're very sensitive to the age no age thing but you know let's face it you [TS]

01:27:04   know that's very typical mistake you know after I well I'd say a third of the [TS]

01:27:10   Valentines I got an elementary school [TS]

01:27:12   a third respond correctly and a third were spared jail in H I can totally [TS]

01:27:17   sympathize because I'm I'm I'm Benjamin Thompson and Thompson [TS]

01:27:21   actually has like multiple spellings like the ride was the peak at piano it's [TS]

01:27:26   so unfair because I both have ass boring name and I have to spell it all the time [TS]

01:27:30   like you should be one of the other likely view all the time it's because [TS]

01:27:33   you have a really kickass name that knows her before but now that I'm [TS]

01:27:37   interested I'm just Benjamin Thompson so right so somebody does something famous [TS]

01:27:41   or infamous named Ben Thomson nopee is not the same name as you but you're [TS]

01:27:46   gonna get completed it will I do appreciate that my nemesis on Google is [TS]

01:27:50   trying to be the top result for Ben Thompson which I O Donnell was armed Ben [TS]

01:27:54   Thompson lawmen [TS]

01:27:56   Emma hack the top article from is badass of the week I'm gonna give you the cell [TS]

01:28:01   when I'll get confused at the baddest of the week [TS]

01:28:04   wow I just notice I just haven't done this in a while if it's true for you for [TS]

01:28:09   years I i I gave up on it I was not the top searched Google for grouper just [TS]

01:28:14   grouper it was always Gruber industries that people have but this might be [TS]

01:28:20   because what do you get if you search Google for group A during 5 I'll see I [TS]

01:28:26   get different get twitter.com / if I'm not signed the united with economist and [TS]

01:28:32   then daring fireballs next in the jungle between her but it is cos I'm in Taiwan [TS]

01:28:36   so there's all that stuff that affects it would be paying your balance an [TS]

01:28:40   example I miss my connection I haven't searched for years I i cos I honestly [TS]

01:28:44   don't I don't know I'm vain in other ways but I'm not supplied realize I i [TS]

01:28:49   have good enough Google but groupon.com use to come up first for years and years [TS]

01:28:54   and years it's some kind of industrial company down in Arizona who got the [TS]

01:28:58   domain name in 1993 much to my chagrin I can't help but think I've never really [TS]

01:29:06   heard anything about them I can't help but think that there was some kind of [TS]

01:29:09   rearranging of Google's algorithm that they used to favor search term in [TS]

01:29:15   the.com over anything else for years and years and years but group icon doesn't [TS]

01:29:21   even show up my first page stupid Jonathan Gruber got it anyway the best [TS]

01:29:31   thing that happened with that was that at some point during the week where he [TS]

01:29:33   was really in the new people who don't know I don't he said something about [TS]

01:29:37   like Obama Care passed by [TS]

01:29:40   because people are stupid or something like that he is a world renowned [TS]

01:29:44   economist at MIT and his specialty is healthcare legislature [TS]

01:29:50   and he wrote Massachusetts law or helped write the Massachusetts health care law [TS]

01:29:55   that Mitt Romney when it it's just want to get into the politics of it but this [TS]

01:29:59   week [TS]

01:29:59   week [TS]

01:30:00   weird situation where it was a health care law gave everybody in Massachusetts [TS]

01:30:05   universal health care coverage in a republican style because they had a [TS]

01:30:10   republican governor who eventually went on a run for president and the way that [TS]

01:30:14   President Obama went about trying to get health care was instead of pursuing a [TS]

01:30:19   traditionally democratic style you know which is angled a single pair with a [TS]

01:30:24   look I just want people to have health care let's go the Republican rout and [TS]

01:30:28   and you know follow the Massachusetts model and you know ended up being you [TS]

01:30:33   know obviously it's a political happened anyway he was also a consultant on the [TS]

01:30:39   national version of this law and then years ago this is what they do weird [TS]

01:30:43   thing about it is that it wasn't something he said recently but it was a [TS]

01:30:46   years ago it's some kind of conference for other economist so it wasn't [TS]

01:30:53   speaking to the public had known you know was being videotaped obviously but [TS]

01:30:56   you know he's not a politician wasn't gonna go spread wide it was this [TS]

01:31:00   discussion about how the word tax is just toxic in American political culture [TS]

01:31:06   and so to pay for the new health care law they couldn't call anything they did [TS]

01:31:09   to raise money for the tax and so they called it I don't want the subsidy [TS]

01:31:14   instead there some kind of way that through the vagaries of the way that the [TS]

01:31:20   U S Congress budget department classifies different types of [TS]

01:31:24   legislature it wouldn't be called attacks because the subsidy but it's a [TS]

01:31:28   rose by any other name its people paying more money to a collection that would [TS]

01:31:33   then be distributed to pay for the mechanics of the law and his explanation [TS]

01:31:39   was very honest but it was more or less that you know american voters are too [TS]

01:31:45   stupid to know the difference that calling it something else doesn't make [TS]

01:31:49   it something which is true in a sense and I mean that in a way that but it was [TS]

01:31:55   taken by Republicans as an insult that he was that it was passed under false [TS]

01:32:01   pretenses in [TS]

01:32:02   he became you know public enemy number one of american republicans and an awful [TS]

01:32:09   lot of them to be needed a driver at Gruber was that they would like even if [TS]

01:32:16   they went so far as to see you what at Gruber was and then saw it was in fact [TS]

01:32:21   somebody named John Gruber weather ahead nature not and he had a bunch of [TS]

01:32:25   followers they just assumed it was him and so for about a week I was inundated [TS]

01:32:30   with glittery alec and and I think part of it is that you had to make a mistake [TS]

01:32:36   to do that which increased the chance that the people doing it weren't really [TS]

01:32:41   the sharpest pencil that in the case so I took a retreating some of them it was [TS]

01:32:48   it was interesting if you know if you think that like the vitriol that I i get [TS]

01:32:53   you know from that say andrade fanatics when I say something disparaging about [TS]

01:32:59   Android or something like that if you think that's harsh the way that the [TS]

01:33:02   political stuff is is just unbelievable it's it's it's it's incredible people I [TS]

01:33:08   mean seriously saying things like you know go kill yourself at grouper I mean [TS]

01:33:12   no no exaggeration and I dunno it just occurred to me and I would write back to [TS]

01:33:17   some of them some of them I would retreat [TS]

01:33:19   some of them I would tweak a little and then some of them I would just write [TS]

01:33:23   back totally honest it's like did you you know what were you thinking you know [TS]

01:33:26   you thinking that I would see this when you wrote you know what goes through [TS]

01:33:31   your mind if you're doing that do you do you assume do you think that the [TS]

01:33:35   Jonathan Gruber was going to read that and perhaps feel bad about himself [TS]

01:33:38   because you're somebody wishing you would kill him like himself white why [TS]

01:33:42   would you rate that like what is going through your mind how can you go through [TS]

01:33:47   your day with so much hate it was interesting to me it's like the extreme [TS]

01:33:53   opposite alike were attacked while before I go abilities Alexia product or [TS]

01:33:57   someone's eyes it's like just a complete and utter lack of empathy yeah [TS]

01:34:02   and you know I could you go through the rest of your life like that or desist [TS]

01:34:05   only spew out on Twitter and there were a few people who I tweet that told some [TS]

01:34:10   people that we were I was gonna next the next step is we're gonna come take until [TS]

01:34:19   next year we will become take your guns into health care issue nearly got like [TS]

01:34:26   to see you try and say we're on our way [TS]

01:34:28   tell some of these people are coming to take their guns and it really grab some [TS]

01:34:33   of those are the best anyway that's the most part but it really elevated this [TS]

01:34:41   guy in the Twitter rankings for group of them geez anyway but it's the best thing [TS]

01:34:46   to happen I know it was fox in particular it would really help to but [TS]

01:34:51   Fox News it was very clear to me like probably the second most interested [TS]

01:34:57   observer in the country that they they there must have been a memo that [TS]

01:35:02   circulated with Anna and I know I don't think of anything to do with me and i [TS]

01:35:05   ended with me but they they they clarify they they unified on Jonathan Gruber [TS]

01:35:10   instead of John group MIT economist at first when the whole thing first broke [TS]

01:35:15   it was like half and half or they would spell it J when spell out the whole [TS]

01:35:19   Jonathan and about halfway through the week Fox started consistently calling [TS]

01:35:23   and Jonathan Gruber and it helped a lot I think interesting well maybe you know [TS]

01:35:27   your friendship with a great morrison helped out there you know I thought [TS]

01:35:32   about it I actually had was like at the it's funny cuz I was thinking about it [TS]

01:35:36   and I was halfway thinking maybe I should write to clean [TS]

01:35:39   and and just say you know I know you can do about this whole thing but if you [TS]

01:35:44   could just pass away her and a colleague I Jonathan said of john I would [TS]

01:35:47   appreciate it but I never even had to do that it seemed like Fox it happened on [TS]

01:35:51   the toe much much to the decrease in entertainment for the rest of us only [TS]

01:35:58   thing I could see in the news this week was other than that big microsoft said [TS]

01:36:03   you want to talk about but you see mark fuhrman's report on Apple watch so yeah [TS]

01:36:08   yeah which is a little weird I thought the more interesting thing that he had [TS]

01:36:14   was that according to mark Gurman an unnamed source at Apple that they have [TS]

01:36:18   three thousand units already in use by Apple employees although he doesn't say [TS]

01:36:23   by Apple bees but from what I understand you know I I had heard a few weeks ago [TS]

01:36:28   that there were a thousand and use the government says three thousand could [TS]

01:36:32   just be that they've expanded it but it's all that they are all in the hand [TS]

01:36:36   about you you have to think it's relatively easy to pull off anymore even [TS]

01:36:43   more so than that then a phone I mean I guess the screen being black is a bit of [TS]

01:36:49   a giveaway by I mean I watched watches watching closely now I mean in [TS]

01:36:54   California never gets particularly cold but people more like you wearing long [TS]

01:36:57   sleeves and jackets and that I thought 4 weeks are gonna hurt weeks ago that [TS]

01:37:04   there were a thousand of them in use I was a little surprised we haven't seen [TS]

01:37:08   marks I remember in the six-month run up to the iPhone coming out there were none [TS]

01:37:13   of them least it wasn't like the time the iPhone 4 was found in a bar but [TS]

01:37:17   there were like a steady stream of tears if there's a blurry shot of a guy on [TS]

01:37:22   BART who was using an iPhone until I took out my camera phone to take a [TS]

01:37:26   picture of him in any put it back in his pocket you know but they were always [TS]

01:37:30   there is a steady stream of reports of people who'd spotted Apple employees [TS]

01:37:33   with iPhones before it came out attended UT and I haven't seen this single people [TS]

01:37:37   anybody saying [TS]

01:37:39   you know I saw a guy with an Apple watch such as it got to the point I think it's [TS]

01:37:44   you know I think it's a good you said watch is just too especially if you're [TS]

01:37:49   being even just a little bit circumspect about when you take it out when you're [TS]

01:37:52   not at work or home it's really really hard to notice that somebody's gotta [TS]

01:37:57   watch that said I mean I mean I saw someone using using a smart watch the [TS]

01:38:03   other day and it was it was the privacy thing as much so maybe they're they're [TS]

01:38:08   just not using them in public maybe that's part of the instruction yeah well [TS]

01:38:13   my understanding is the instruction is very likely use it and take it and if [TS]

01:38:16   anybody even asks there are allowed to say yes it's not a watch I work for [TS]

01:38:19   Apple but they're not allowed to take it off and are not allowed to do any kind [TS]

01:38:23   of demonstration yeah and they are but they're allowed to say but I'm not [TS]

01:38:27   allowed to do it and that's when the benefits of having announced it already [TS]

01:38:30   is exactly right there's nothing to hide and and what you see when you're not [TS]

01:38:36   using it is all you know you'll get a much better view of it on apple.com then [TS]

01:38:39   you will on somebody's rest it's interesting I think the last time we [TS]

01:38:43   were talking a lot to watch it is funny because I I have a spidey sense when [TS]

01:38:48   you're gonna beat me on the taxol as I kind of a kind of every idea that I this [TS]

01:38:53   week was gonna be well as weeks are musically with with the whites think [TS]

01:38:56   privatization [TS]

01:38:58   just to be clear I asked you to be on about 30 so it's a little exaggeration [TS]

01:39:07   but I swear to God today I went to the gym I came back and I was I don't know [TS]

01:39:12   why I was thinking about was listening to was working out and I was like I [TS]

01:39:19   think I actually I thought Johnson had me on this and then take 30 minutes [TS]

01:39:24   later and as a little but one thing with the watch is another problem actually [TS]

01:39:38   pretty entry about is the Amazon echo [TS]

01:39:41   book acts in your room and the reason I am i matching much more intrigued by [TS]

01:39:46   that never was by the fire of phone you know I think people dismissed out of [TS]

01:39:49   hand because it came on the heels of the faithful but it sounds stupid but the [TS]

01:39:55   idea of just like talking to something instead of like pulling your pocket and [TS]

01:40:00   then talking to it or with the watch is looking at your wrist and set up your [TS]

01:40:04   phone in looking at something like it sounds it sounds so trivial but like [TS]

01:40:09   convenience always wins its conveniences had multiplied by all the times that [TS]

01:40:20   they matter end up being a big deal and and its fine anything that kind of mixed [TS]

01:40:26   reviews but I'm still a lot of people there are people who do really like it [TS]

01:40:30   and I think it's it's because it's a it's in a similar vein to what I think [TS]

01:40:34   the watch is going to be where it hits you don't have to realize in to use it [TS]

01:40:39   like how it just makes life a little bit west little more frictionless and the [TS]

01:40:47   idea of it being the center is a long ways off just for all the technical [TS]

01:40:51   reasons more than anything but i think is always convenient is always easier to [TS]

01:40:57   see backwards and forwards yes yes it more easy to tell how much you [TS]

01:41:02   appreciate it when it's taken away and when you first get it always you know [TS]

01:41:07   and it's the same way that like when you go back to an older iPhone it makes your [TS]

01:41:14   current iPhone feel so much faster than it felt when you first got the new [TS]

01:41:17   iPhone you get a new iPhone next you next generation a whatever chip like wow [TS]

01:41:21   this is great as a lot faster if you put it down and take your year old old one [TS]

01:41:26   or two year old ones especially like a two year old when you're like holy shit [TS]

01:41:29   this is so Jagan's [TS]

01:41:31   you know coming out of college and your first appointment and has a dishwasher [TS]

01:41:36   near like great this is great I love having a dishwasher well when your [TS]

01:41:40   dishwasher breaks and you don't have it anymore you're like holy shit how do I [TS]

01:41:44   live without a dishwasher right now I have and I think I think you know that [TS]

01:41:49   voice could be something like that [TS]

01:41:51   no i i agree and I think he's one of those things where if you i mean it's [TS]

01:41:56   easy to look back and just like I really think that people said I when the phone [TS]

01:42:01   came out it's like what I could do this I can do so on a computer I can do this [TS]

01:42:05   or with the iPad price as more than anything [TS]

01:42:10   making it just a little bit easier [TS]

01:42:14   makes makes a really big difference and I think that that's a good vector to [TS]

01:42:21   work at any new product like it does it does it make wife just a little bit [TS]

01:42:26   easier if it does then that product probably has a chance [TS]

01:42:29   the thing I didn't understand about Amazon echo when they announced today [TS]

01:42:32   announced it and I watched their video with the family you know using it I [TS]

01:42:39   didn't understand that it was going to be invitation-only for some period of [TS]

01:42:43   time they've actually was just tell me he was thinking about getting one but it [TS]

01:42:47   take you don't buy one you can't just buy one you go to the site and request [TS]

01:42:50   an invitation to buy yeah it's actually just in India thing is I just got a [TS]

01:42:55   request just got granted citizenship in three to four months or something like [TS]

01:42:59   that I am i suspect like they just got burned so badly by the phone that they [TS]

01:43:04   way they got way too conservative like the older corrected and it's really hard [TS]

01:43:09   to wrap something and if you if you kind of started out with the assumption we're [TS]

01:43:13   going to sell 800,000 units you know million orders like it's not just that [TS]

01:43:18   you're behind million orders that but that debt being behind that of compounds [TS]

01:43:23   so it's interesting though I do think that you know like you said there is [TS]

01:43:29   something and this is the closest to the house style interface 2001 right where [TS]

01:43:36   what was the interface with how on the discovery it was just [TS]

01:43:40   talk to how you know there was no button to push there is nothing you don't have [TS]

01:43:44   to go to push a button to start talking to him you just talk to him because he [TS]

01:43:48   was always listening know that the thing it so when you look at any new product [TS]

01:43:53   you think it's so easy to 20 made a bigger card for my podcast exponent and [TS]

01:44:00   a notorious worries over index I'm going to use it so easy to over index on what [TS]

01:44:06   the product is today but to evaluate if you think about what's this product will [TS]

01:44:11   be after three or four iterations and I for example the original Kindle at the [TS]

01:44:15   resort condo is a piece of crap him he looked terrible and I felt terrible like [TS]

01:44:19   he was so obvious that this is how we're gonna read books going forward right in [TS]

01:44:23   once it's thin and easy to hold and exiting the version to control what was [TS]

01:44:28   was very good they they actually there's a huge dump 122 but I think that that's [TS]

01:44:34   something we'll see with the iPhone I think that's something with something [TS]

01:44:38   like the echo and I think I i think will be the case of the washes well where [TS]

01:44:41   it's not just have to look at not just is what it can do right now and what [TS]

01:44:45   capabilities right now or battery life it is right now if you think about what [TS]

01:44:49   is this gonna be in five years and can you see a path from here to there any [TS]

01:44:54   that path is a path that's easily understandable as in like our chips [TS]

01:44:59   gonna get more efficient yes yes American approved not as fast as those [TS]

01:45:04   are you more efficient but yes they're going to improve like theirs in its just [TS]

01:45:09   like you have to put yourself in the shoes of a new user it seems sort of [TS]

01:45:12   thing you'll get a prosecutor just to be able to assimilate what you know about [TS]

01:45:17   the way technology progresses and that's how you evaluate a product not you can [TS]

01:45:21   evaluate an inversion one now one of the interesting things about echoes to me is [TS]

01:45:25   the first new product from any of these companies in my memory where battery is [TS]

01:45:31   an issue as its not battery-operated some people yeah when's the last time [TS]

01:45:35   someone come out with something [TS]

01:45:37   that doesn't isn't battery-operated it's you know that that fascinating to me [TS]

01:45:43   because it's just hasn't happened so it's a great point yeah I think we've [TS]

01:45:50   already talked about legality sold traded or there is a future I can plug [TS]

01:45:53   it in and I talked about that it's it's it's it's your home your home assistant [TS]

01:46:00   lot of ways I think the problem is obviously is you know there they don't [TS]

01:46:05   have the entire like they don't have the mall companion really to go with it [TS]

01:46:09   which obviously the phone their phone was intended to be I would imagine but [TS]

01:46:14   but still I think I think the concept is at least compelling if if echo is in it [TS]

01:46:20   I wouldn't be surprised if you know in five ten years we all have a similar [TS]

01:46:24   sort of device in our house that we just talk to ya I wonder I wonder if it's [TS]

01:46:31   already in the works [TS]

01:46:32   you know whatever the next generation Apple TV is is always listening Xbox [TS]

01:46:38   Microsoft started with Xbox for awhile word turnover is it ok Xbox something [TS]

01:46:42   like that it's been a trigger for you been able to give vocal commands to your [TS]

01:46:47   Xbox for yeah I think gone back to the lab previous Xbox 360 diabetes it seems [TS]

01:46:52   like an obvious thing for the Apple TV own men talk about appropriate stagnated [TS]

01:46:56   yeah well I think that's basically I don't know if they've missed the [TS]

01:47:02   deadline [TS]

01:47:03   you know something is slipped or wide but there's clearly something is coming [TS]

01:47:06   I mean at this point I would say I probably would have bet on something you [TS]

01:47:11   know a year ago we talk to your guy probably would have been on some kind of [TS]

01:47:14   new Apple TV at the end of 2014 so at this point I would call it overdue and I [TS]

01:47:18   kind of expect to see more [TS]

01:47:21   I wouldn't be shocked if we don't see it in 2015 cause I know maybe they've but [TS]

01:47:25   if we're talking a year from now on Eastern Avenue truly new Apple TV then [TS]

01:47:32   then I would hear from now I would think maybe they've written maybe they've yeah [TS]

01:47:37   I was like that's why men like saving as in like the Mac Pro stagnated like so [TS]

01:47:47   you either it's dying or its because there is a wholesale and awake refreshed [TS]

01:47:52   coming their way yet they're waiting on something some kind of hardware and/or [TS]

01:47:58   software that they need to make the one they want to make and it's not really [TS]

01:48:03   giving up on it though because I especially me think that home kid is is [TS]

01:48:08   important even though we haven't heard a ton about it and an Apple TV is pretty [TS]

01:48:12   important home kit so I don't think they would do that if it was something they [TS]

01:48:17   were giving up on here and at the very least even in the Apple TV as well you [TS]

01:48:22   need something in your house always plugged in to make home kill release in [TS]

01:48:28   and so why not just make it a thing he put their TVs and everybody has a TV [TS]

01:48:33   know right like it doesn't have to be Apple TV could be anything but why not [TS]

01:48:38   just make it up to ya know I have always thought I mean I i've i've I want that [TS]

01:48:42   like this they're going to unify like the router and the Apple TV and you know [TS]

01:48:47   that would have taken some lag issues for one for a fair play if you like if [TS]

01:48:54   the output ecosystem as a break running off an iPhone or whatever maybe but now [TS]

01:48:58   I was the idea that you before like they're being an echo types typing angle [TS]

01:49:04   to it as well I think it makes i mean obviously Syria would be involved in it [TS]

01:49:08   but having it be kind of a an assistant to talk to i think is is really [TS]

01:49:11   compelling I thought about that two years ago that why why not combine Apple [TS]

01:49:16   TV with the airport router [TS]

01:49:19   so then there's only one thing to plug in and I didn't think the latency is [TS]

01:49:22   even did system plus I'm just thinking they'd just one thing plugged in but [TS]

01:49:28   your cable thing in the back but the power plug in and you're done and then a [TS]

01:49:33   kind of thought maybe not when I got the latest generation airport which was so [TS]

01:49:37   much bigger right but I think I mean I think then but that has that has the [TS]

01:49:41   that's an actual rather like it has multiple ports and stuff like that I I [TS]

01:49:47   think the Airport Express is probably a fuller expression of like Apple's ideal [TS]

01:49:51   router and always well my understanding is that the reason that the new airport [TS]

01:49:55   extreme is so tall is that it was and who knows you know who knows how long [TS]

01:50:01   was in the works you know with Steve Jobs being gone but it was just purely [TS]

01:50:06   engineering that having antennas that are up bigger antennas that iraq has a [TS]

01:50:11   big part of why it's better reception to your house [TS]

01:50:13   whereas the old whereas the older ones that were somewhat smaller were always [TS]

01:50:17   constrained terms of the energy you know the power of there in 10 writers like [TS]

01:50:20   the Super like one green ones have like actual antennas that like stick up so [TS]

01:50:25   it's a little bit more of a practical design than a you know it's it's [TS]

01:50:31   function over form but I don't know it might be a hard sell when all the other [TS]

01:50:36   boxes are so small and old Apple TV was so small they say your new Apple TV is [TS]

01:50:40   ten times yeah good point I don't know you know but on the other hand hate to [TS]

01:50:46   put this one thing and it's compelling government thing was all about how the [TS]

01:50:54   battery sucks on Apple watch what I say to me that's like no surprise of course [TS]

01:51:00   it does of course that's the biggest thing that holding them up I mean I need [TS]

01:51:05   sources to take that yeah i mean the thing I've always kind of [TS]

01:51:12   maintained about the [TS]

01:51:14   about the Malta watches 24 he just has to get you through the day and the funk [TS]

01:51:20   the way to address battery life is not to make like week one bear away for a [TS]

01:51:25   month on battery life it's to make better wife that is to make the [TS]

01:51:28   functionality so great that you're willing to put up with charging all the [TS]

01:51:31   time and that like that's what they do with the phone right iPhone iPhone [TS]

01:51:35   battery wife relative to our old phones is still drastically worse than it was [TS]

01:51:40   before but we don't care about that because the functionality is so superior [TS]

01:51:45   that we put up with charging it like it's assumed they were gonna carry just [TS]

01:51:49   like you go around you can go to any shopping mall here and there's walkers [TS]

01:51:54   and you walk in the door even paid to pull your phone and likely though you go [TS]

01:51:58   shopping [TS]

01:52:00   charge like that's kind of crazy but it's it's it's not crazy anymore because [TS]

01:52:06   that's of course why wouldn't you want you know it's gonna give up [TS]

01:52:10   functionality to get better battery life today just like every every time an [TS]

01:52:14   airport is a new terminal is added or terminal is is refurbished it's always [TS]

01:52:20   you know the huge factor is getting power outlets 222 more people [TS]

01:52:25   yeah yeah it's a fresh includes an airport with no power outlets in the [TS]

01:52:32   huddle around there it's it you know it is like it's nobody had the idea but [TS]

01:52:38   it's not just you know dystopian science fiction future come to life [TS]

01:52:43   body weight around sucking up like rows of seats in know it's in there was [TS]

01:52:47   before I like the one pillar that like outlets with it it's interesting as i've [TS]

01:52:54   eventually that'll happen don't remember and an adjacent schnauzer in about this [TS]

01:52:58   lately we're clearly Apple has these target numbers in mind [TS]

01:53:02   Lake X number of hours for an iPhone and 10 hours battery life [TS]

01:53:07   mad and they stick to the iPad particularly like it's been dead solid [TS]

01:53:12   every single iPad and they have that number in their head and then they just [TS]

01:53:18   keep making the devices and as they possibly can walk hitting that number [TS]

01:53:22   you know and it's every single year when I funds come out and every other year [TS]

01:53:26   when the new generation comes out it so much thinner there's a decent chunk of [TS]

01:53:30   people who have you know personally have different set of priorities who say why [TS]

01:53:34   couldn't they just make it as thick as the last one which was plenty thing and [TS]

01:53:37   just give me more battery life but eventually that's going to happen [TS]

01:53:40   because it happened with laptops laptops MacBooks howard got like three to four [TS]

01:53:46   hours of battery life [TS]

01:53:47   year after year after year after year after year and then all of a sudden boom [TS]

01:53:51   you know shut up to seven eight nine hours of battery life and eventually [TS]

01:53:57   happened phones like eventually will have an iPhone then getting dinner [TS]

01:54:01   instead gives you like you go two or three days without [TS]

01:54:05   obviously I'm I'm I'm not the right person to measure this cause I worked [TS]

01:54:12   from home but the iPhone 6 my favorite feature even more than than having a [TS]

01:54:18   larger screen is that I never were better life anymore [TS]

01:54:21   again like I i plug in more than most people and I've heard from people that [TS]

01:54:27   yeah it's still not good enough but for me anyway like it it's it's crossed that [TS]

01:54:31   line compared to the 5s which if I was always worried about it [TS]

01:54:36   yeah now I'm going to Disney World's good test for me because it used used to [TS]

01:54:41   reach you know I'd need my movie to get through a day and I don't anymore or any [TS]

01:54:47   kind of travel day any kind of day where are you know in an airport and going [TS]

01:54:51   somewhere in doing all of my computing from the phone always you still need a [TS]

01:54:55   movie night don't generally anymore [TS]

01:54:59   is mark fuhrman's reporting 2.5 24 hours of active application use of that seems [TS]

01:55:06   pretty good to me I mean I yeah I think that's all it's interesting because I'm [TS]

01:55:11   sure that those you know he's got great sources and I'm sure they're real [TS]

01:55:14   numbers but I i feel like it's hard to think about that as a user because from [TS]

01:55:19   a user's perspective you're not going to think about stuff like that and in [TS]

01:55:22   particular the other when you called I agree I think that's actually pretty [TS]

01:55:24   good considering how I think we'll be using these things the other one was the [TS]

01:55:30   time telling and the time telling as I understand it i've heard from people is [TS]

01:55:34   so the watches office the time or the faces off right and it has to be because [TS]

01:55:41   it's you know we don't know yet whether its older LCD I think it might be some [TS]

01:55:46   kind of older though because they are using black as the background instead of [TS]

01:55:50   white but regardless of any kind of color screen like that whatever the [TS]

01:55:56   technologies you know the the biggest power have a new device so it offers the [TS]

01:56:04   time my understanding is that they've put like inordinate like a huge chunk [TS]

01:56:11   the whole three year-long effort there have been teams devoted to it that are [TS]

01:56:16   18 devoted to it is that when you twist your arm wrist to look at the time it is [TS]

01:56:21   already you know it turns on the detection of this is the type of motion [TS]

01:56:26   of a person checking the time [TS]

01:56:28   is like an A one priority for the thing and that apparently it works really [TS]

01:56:33   already works really really well it's very very smart about turning on when [TS]

01:56:39   you want to look at it but then when you turn your respect it goes off so I [TS]

01:56:45   forgot how long it's like three hours ago white last three hours of continuous [TS]

01:56:49   telling the time or something like that and the other thing with the only thing [TS]

01:56:53   with that is I think this is the one thing that really kinda tracks from the [TS]

01:56:56   watches fashion accessory thing because the guy in the face of a watch is is [TS]

01:57:05   super important to its being a fashion accessories like you they can have [TS]

01:57:10   beautiful bands they can have a beautiful case but if it's just a black [TS]

01:57:14   box it's then that there is an area where I believe if they were ever to get [TS]

01:57:20   to a point where they could actually have those watch faces on all the time I [TS]

01:57:24   think that would be a that would be a big deal just from from I mean if they [TS]

01:57:31   could do it they weren't but they were using our pajamas podcasting what went [TS]

01:57:35   on the fashion experts but I do think the ad then that will be winning if they [TS]

01:57:39   can get to that point I think that will be there will be a big deal right but [TS]

01:57:43   it's definitely in this you know you know their Apple clearly is going way [TS]

01:57:48   more as this is a watch watch and we're you know we're going right up against [TS]

01:57:52   any watch brand you want than anybody else that the SmartWatch game but [TS]

01:57:56   clearly one of the areas where they just can't compete is the fact like you said [TS]

01:58:00   that the faces black you know and and whatever choice you make in terms of [TS]

01:58:03   which style of of the many that they offer from fruit for your watchtower [TS]

01:58:09   has no bearing on what other people see when they see it on your right you know [TS]

01:58:14   the guy across from you in the aisle on the train is not moving his wrister [TS]

01:58:18   checking the time are you see as a as an Apple ID you have no idea what face is [TS]

01:58:23   that says that that's definitely a factor there's it's there's no getting [TS]

01:58:27   around what's interesting is it least four at the beginning before they are [TS]

01:58:32   obviously Apple would like them to be as widespread as phones but if you think [TS]

01:58:37   back when the phone iPhone first came out like it was it said something that [TS]

01:58:42   you had an iPhone it was it was obvious that you had one in there weren't very [TS]

01:58:46   many people that had one and so it's almost like it's not that big a deal at [TS]

01:58:50   the beginning because just seeing that that black square will be meaningful [TS]

01:58:55   enough whereas once in in ideally once they get to the point if they're [TS]

01:59:01   successful and they become ubiquitous that by that point the power management [TS]

01:59:05   will also be the point where they can be fully customized in on all the time in [TS]

01:59:11   end or fulfill that kinda like personal personalized fashion bangle yeah yeah I [TS]

01:59:20   read it some time how much you can tell the time but how much how long screen so [TS]

01:59:25   it can be on for three hours that's sounds pretty good because it doesn't [TS]

01:59:30   seem to me like you would it doesn't seem like how could you spent 13 hours [TS]

01:59:33   looking at the little things right exactly how you if you're if you're [TS]

01:59:38   gonna be interacting with them that long you might as well take your phone right [TS]

01:59:42   three thousand users but I wonder how many separate seems like a lot but again [TS]

01:59:52   a lot for it not to athlete but on the other hand maybe it's a lot easier to [TS]

01:59:57   conceal will be interesting and it soon [TS]

02:00:02   yeah yeah what do you think that government said that still on pace to [TS]

02:00:09   ship at the end of March I i seemed seems reasonable I i suspect they were [TS]

02:00:14   shooting for February you know just made for the Chinese market might change your [TS]

02:00:20   super late this year people get cash for Chinese New Year but so I if it's with a [TS]

02:00:27   well it's super this would include make it but still it's still early in the [TS]

02:00:32   year you I I don't think I would I would of course you know mark fuhrman is [TS]

02:00:39   number one in pointing out that simple products released throughout 2014 and [TS]

02:00:43   they didn't really say anything to the second half of the year but that said I [TS]

02:00:46   think that he won't drop a date lately [TS]

02:00:50   yeah I don't know I'm starting March is impressive it ships by March because I [TS]

02:00:55   know my impression from you people I secondhand all second him know [TS]

02:00:59   first-hand information is wearing one but second information you know people [TS]

02:01:03   who are aware is that still buggy enough and have enough battery life in March [TS]

02:01:08   would be an achievement because you know if it's too buggy into the battery life [TS]

02:01:15   is too bad there's no its not gonna come out in March [TS]

02:01:17   you know there they have the wiggle room to push it until april and May are even [TS]

02:01:23   June June I'll give you know people will roll their eyes because it's about as [TS]

02:01:28   late as early 2015 can be but you know they have that we're going to be any [TS]

02:01:34   different impressions matter right it would be better to have people [TS]

02:01:37   complaining that june is pretty damn late for early to that you know [TS]

02:01:42   quote-unquote early 2015 then to ship in March just to hit the first quarter and [TS]

02:01:48   you know how to be riddled with bugs are not make it through the day when you [TS]

02:01:55   think you so i cant I made a note here when you're talking about [TS]

02:01:59   can't talk about the fire phone without talking about Austin cars it's not new I [TS]

02:02:03   guess it was a [TS]

02:02:04   sometime in the last month his fast company piece on the making fire from [TS]

02:02:09   Shirley ready I was glad in it that's right that's right that's right I [TS]

02:02:14   remember that it's actually one of the things that should have been on the show [TS]

02:02:18   this week actually remember that it wasn't I thought it was a tremendous [TS]

02:02:22   piece of retaliation he talked to a lot of people are mean and got you know a [TS]

02:02:26   lot of inside people at 1:26 that was definitely very compelling and if you [TS]

02:02:31   have already shared a link in the show's accidentally during gonna be linked on [TS]

02:02:36   during variable in between us recording and and the show airing it up in the [TS]

02:02:41   shuttle to but it's just a tremendous piece of reporting in rather scathing [TS]

02:02:45   it's interesting because the one he talked about exams in not being focused [TS]

02:02:53   and that's a common critique that in the Apple family how about Amazon but [TS]

02:02:59   actually when I told them this I talked to him [TS]

02:03:02   Amazon's at that can accompany like Amazon is in many respects the anti [TS]

02:03:08   Apple or the bizarro apple and like the the way the company works internally is [TS]

02:03:13   it's a lot of companies some of the more mature companies that throw off cash and [TS]

02:03:18   some of them are start-ups that devour cash and because they're all under one [TS]

02:03:22   roof that money can be funneled from the ones doing off but he doesn't need it [TS]

02:03:27   and and insulted there are lots of groups that that that kind of stuff do [TS]

02:03:31   you want to hazard a comet's like one website but actually like there's the [TS]

02:03:35   clothing section in there is the car section and all these are within Amazon [TS]

02:03:41   completely separate groups and they have their own their own procuring managers [TS]

02:03:45   at their own marketing managers they have their own their own PL's it's like [TS]

02:03:51   it's the exact opposite structure from the way Apple is set up and in its meant [TS]

02:03:57   to almost be like a self in computer in a lot of ways [TS]

02:04:00   and so from that perspective to say that Amazon's doing this like the phone can [TS]

02:04:06   fit in that and actually almost if you look at this way and that if you accept [TS]

02:04:10   that this is the way Amazon is going to operate my critique of the phone and [TS]

02:04:15   what I took away from the reporting is that Jeff Bezos in particular was too [TS]

02:04:20   focused on the phone and like heeey got too obsessed with it and then when it [TS]

02:04:26   kind of breed and go through a natural sort of like startup process and that [TS]

02:04:32   more than anything was was in he's got a blind spot about white the viability of [TS]

02:04:37   this product which which I mean everyone was kinda knew was a lot of us are [TS]

02:04:43   saying there is no point to add for the council was announced it was like what [TS]

02:04:46   you know what this makes no sense it's it's a cautionary tale I i think that [TS]

02:04:53   you get so wrapped up in something you you lose all perspective that get back [TS]

02:04:58   to my argument earlier in the show with forestall and the ability to look at it [TS]

02:05:03   like an interface and say you know what we put a lot of friends but this is crap [TS]

02:05:08   we need to scrap this right you get too close to it and you lose ya ass to meet [TS]

02:05:13   the same type of thing that you can I can see how it happened [TS]

02:05:17   you know because I know that's just human nature but I mean the just the big [TS]

02:05:20   is that all this emphasis and it came from users directly [TS]

02:05:25   was on this 3d whatever they call it you know the camera centers on the front of [TS]

02:05:29   me a face to face that you don't need glasses for on the screen and the the [TS]

02:05:37   the on within the team there was some you know it's a neat trick it's a neat [TS]

02:05:43   idea but what in the world is a selling point what is the actual purpose of this [TS]

02:05:47   and yet we just got hung up on it and thought it would be the selling point [TS]

02:05:53   and it certainly was the initial marketing marketing was all about this [TS]

02:05:57   3d effect [TS]

02:05:58   and then in reality it turned out exactly what the naysayers on the team [TS]

02:06:02   at thought which is nobody sees the point of it yeah that's that's no [TS]

02:06:05   differentiation is not just having a unique feature it's actually making a [TS]

02:06:10   difference in customers lives in the way that another product cannot write it [TS]

02:06:15   actually isn't didn't make it a better device and that's the whole problem and [TS]

02:06:20   yet it also made it something that was expensive cuz it was a high-end phone [TS]

02:06:26   was a premium fun you know there and I this is the part where I disagree with [TS]

02:06:29   cars announces the reporting is interesting that there was that there [TS]

02:06:32   were people within the team who said all along I don't see the point of this [TS]

02:06:36   that's it's you know it's pure gimmickry and no utility and they were right in [TS]

02:06:44   the end without it the fire from was left with nothing compelling because the [TS]

02:06:47   other stuff that has none of it was best of breed doesn't have the best apps [TS]

02:06:50   doesn't have the best ecosystem [TS]

02:06:52   you know there is nothing else about the device that was that was worth hang your [TS]

02:06:56   hat on the only thing they had to hang their hat on was the 3d effect in the 3d [TS]

02:07:00   effect was pointless but business was all caught up in it for you saw that in [TS]

02:07:06   the keynote to like the keynote was so long and it was so self-absorbed icy [TS]

02:07:11   roads at the time like I thought I found the key not very distressing not just [TS]

02:07:16   just because it was it was it wreaked of hubris and and basically this this [TS]

02:07:22   article said yeah that's basically exactly yeah and so there I agree spot [TS]

02:07:28   on where i disagree and the articles several times touches on it and I think [TS]

02:07:32   you can kind of see cargoes along with his sources saying it too so it's not [TS]

02:07:36   just cars the writer projecting him but it's the idea that the whole idea of a [TS]

02:07:41   high-end phone from Amazon is contrary to the Brandon doomed from the start [TS]

02:07:46   that this idea that they can make a phone to compete with Apple is a [TS]

02:07:49   terrible idea because Apple competes on branding and design and Amazon is just [TS]

02:07:53   low and prices and so of Amazon wanted it or phone it should have been some [TS]

02:07:56   piece of junk that was super cheap and I disagree with that i disagree entirely [TS]

02:08:02   because I mean what was the one quote there there is a branding issues you [TS]

02:08:08   know is the quote from one of the sources that he had i really disagree [TS]

02:08:12   with that and I just to me it's a it's to me it's a fundamental [TS]

02:08:16   misunderstanding about branding and marketing about to me bernie marketing [TS]

02:08:20   always come from [TS]

02:08:21   eventually from the actual quality of the products or services wherever it is [TS]

02:08:25   themselves and so short it is a little bit outside of Amazon's expected brand [TS]

02:08:31   to ship a high-end you know phone they compete with the iPhone quality and [TS]

02:08:37   maybe some people would have gotten it right away but the problem isn't that it [TS]

02:08:41   that the fire phone was outside Amazon's braniff problem is the fire phone was a [TS]

02:08:45   crappy phone and so therefore it's not it's the product it all comes from the [TS]

02:08:50   private product was piece of crap that no one wanted to buy it was poorly [TS]

02:08:53   reviewed if it actually had been a really good phone if it had been [TS]

02:08:57   something that was compelling it may not have been a smash hit right away but at [TS]

02:09:01   least would have fit with the brand they were trying to do and then they could [TS]

02:09:04   generate for two or three years and eventually it might catch on but it all [TS]

02:09:07   comes from the product itself had to be a good thing not I i i think i think [TS]

02:09:12   thats right and the other thing too is if you step back and look at the [TS]

02:09:16   e-commerce market Amazon is a high-end brand hinder a high-end brand because [TS]

02:09:22   their number one proposition is selection and convenience [TS]

02:09:25   yes they push price but you see a brand like jet dot com is like the former [TS]

02:09:30   deborah's dot com CEOs like watching a new things like a Costco model basically [TS]

02:09:34   where you pay a membership fee and then they they will give you that their [TS]

02:09:39   margin effectively end all these rules is convoluted it takes longer to get [TS]

02:09:44   your stuff in there is all weird ways to get discount he's a debit card is [TS]

02:09:48   cheaper it's a pain in the ass in it sounds awful to me like I would not want [TS]

02:09:52   to use it [TS]

02:09:52   but I'm the sort of person that is willing to pay for convenience for a [TS]

02:09:58   guaranteed delivery for going to one place and you when I want to I don't [TS]

02:10:01   want to price compare I don't want to like jump through hoops to lower price [TS]

02:10:04   but there are people who do and and I don't think Amazon ultimately when push [TS]

02:10:10   comes to solve I I think they will prove out to be more of a high-end after [TS]

02:10:17   another another ensuring you can receptors is wish wishes bill mobile app [TS]

02:10:20   for you you can basically buy stuff from China and it's really cheap and it's a [TS]

02:10:26   nice it's crap in his own as it takes like two weeks to arrive in that it [TS]

02:10:30   doesn't arrive but it's super cheap and it's like interesting stuff and it's [TS]

02:10:34   exploding and it's a very different proposition than Amazon and I think [TS]

02:10:39   you'll look back at the e-commerce industry as a whole it out and actually [TS]

02:10:43   is gonna be I was primarily in rich countries and its use I think primarily [TS]

02:10:48   by relatively rich people and so not only are you write that the phone is [TS]

02:10:52   crap now is the biggest problem and if they made a good phone it would accrue [TS]

02:10:55   to their brand but actually think the the characterization of the brand was [TS]

02:10:58   wrong as well yeah I kind of do I kind of agree with that too you know and I [TS]

02:11:04   think it specially when you're getting into a new initiative you've kind of got [TS]

02:11:07   a blank slate in terms of establishing the brand right I mean like thing about [TS]

02:11:12   the Kindle which you said was you know I hit right from the start work again as I [TS]

02:11:17   wasn't known for making their own products at all period that never done [TS]

02:11:21   it before they do is the first gadget they made and you know they define the [TS]

02:11:27   brand by the fact that it was a product that made people who were voracious [TS]

02:11:31   readers very happy right it's the Kindle is at least as an e-reader is I think [TS]

02:11:37   very well perceived brandon is you know sits atop the e-reader market I mean I [TS]

02:11:43   have all sorts of little niggling complaints complaints about the design [TS]

02:11:46   of the devices God Almighty I love I would love to see Apple Amazon poach [TS]

02:11:52   some Apple engineers and let them have that the Kindle [TS]

02:11:56   hardware for a year or two but overall it's you know I admit them all my [TS]

02:12:03   complaints are more or less niggling and that the basic gist of this magic box [TS]

02:12:08   that you can just reading reading reading read forever and when you get to [TS]

02:12:11   the end of the book your fifteen seconds away from another book on it it all just [TS]

02:12:17   worked in the brand for the Kindle Amazon's brainless before the brand for [TS]

02:12:23   Kindle is defined by the experience of using it can you know and that's why [TS]

02:12:26   it's a good brand and if the phone had actually been compelling in some kind of [TS]

02:12:30   profound way then the fire phone would have had a good brand and again it might [TS]

02:12:34   take years for it to really catch on traction is weird you know is a weird [TS]

02:12:40   thing but I really don't think that you know that the brand is defined by the [TS]

02:12:48   products it's not the other way around [TS]

02:12:50   is the thing is like the the the era of differentiating on the OS layer is over [TS]

02:12:57   its iOS and Android like thats and and the thing is like Amazon has lots of [TS]

02:13:03   pieces to do interesting to do interesting stuff you know I like the [TS]

02:13:10   fire like the most compelling thing in a presentation was like the Firefly [TS]

02:13:14   application where identify staff and you could put your card you could buy [TS]

02:13:17   whatever like in in that that that fit Amazon I think I was on you know I think [TS]

02:13:23   the whole endeavor was was a bit misguided they would have been better [TS]

02:13:29   off there would be better off focusing on the absent Alpine hours and ended but [TS]

02:13:34   if they if if they felt there was a way to go like that should have been the [TS]

02:13:38   central point in regions of his appointees because that's where Amazon [TS]

02:13:42   can actually bring what they have to bear to create something truly unique [TS]

02:13:45   that's that's really compelling [TS]

02:13:47   so what do you think that you gonna do that's when they get out of the car [TS]

02:13:52   articles what are they gonna do going forward and it's just such a disaster [TS]

02:13:55   that there did done making phone or they gonna stick with it into a fire from 2 [TS]

02:13:58   I'm honest I I thought that was the most surprising thing that he is so well [TS]

02:14:03   sourced to get the story they got but it doesn't have anything about what their [TS]

02:14:06   future plans I don't know it's a really interesting question I mean I mean it [TS]

02:14:11   was a huge flop I mean it was what was the I think of it they only sold like [TS]

02:14:16   10,000 phones or something like that at least until they drastically cut the [TS]

02:14:19   prices were selling [TS]

02:14:21   yeah I mean a huge right off at 800 300 million euros confusing with the surface [TS]

02:14:32   yeah something even so that's an awful at an awful lot I mean it was clearly [TS]

02:14:40   internally they had projections they were a liar [TS]

02:14:43   oh yeah for sure I mean yeah it wasn't a mild disappointment it was a profound as [TS]

02:14:50   rain so I don't know what do you think they're gonna do I honestly can't guess [TS]

02:14:53   because it's their their two nations company and bassist strikes me as [TS]

02:15:00   somewhat stubborn but on the other hand man it was such a turn of a of a you [TS]

02:15:06   know market failure I i think that they III said I think that trying to really [TS]

02:15:15   build out a a third platform is is a bad idea and it's really a second half [TS]

02:15:24   platform right I don't know doesn't make it any easier right it's like there's [TS]

02:15:29   Windows Phone which is trying to be at their platform and its all new UI all [TS]

02:15:33   new API's even in programming language [TS]

02:15:36   and Amazon found is certainly you know mostly Android right into the same [TS]

02:15:42   language of these games and stuff like that I think you can pretty much just [TS]

02:15:47   submit to their store and they just run but still it's a location API call or [TS]

02:15:54   anything involving sari belies anything like that uses Google services you have [TS]

02:15:59   to go in and change and it's it's in the grand scheme of things are simple change [TS]

02:16:03   but it gets back to life the convenience factor right you're like one developer [TS]

02:16:08   has to actually do it and which they have other stuff to do and to have to [TS]

02:16:15   supported and break that barrier in I got i've i've done developer working [TS]

02:16:21   with those of those little barriers that seemed especially disorder and create [TS]

02:16:27   new platform it's not that big a deal you only have to do acts it is a big [TS]

02:16:31   deal and it's a lot bigger deal than you appreciate is a bigger deal not just for [TS]

02:16:35   the big guys that you talked to before the long tail of developers that you [TS]

02:16:40   know that are out there you know if one other thing the other thing too is it [TS]

02:16:44   strategically that's exactly where Google has sort of shored up and [TS]

02:16:48   protected and you know not to get political but closed Android is by [TS]

02:16:52   putting more and more stuff in the Google service absolutely in lesson you [TS]

02:16:57   know an Ashley taking stuff out of the Android you know and departed called [TS]

02:17:03   Android is open in the part that's cool services is completely closed and you [TS]

02:17:08   know even just little things like the way that they've stopped development of [TS]

02:17:11   the web browser on Android side and they've only officially now develop [TS]

02:17:15   crown but that part of Google services in israeli so because that that is the [TS]

02:17:22   bulwark like it is the App Store that prevents like they're being viable [TS]

02:17:29   alternatives you know with the exception of China which has the most web stores [TS]

02:17:34   but thats that like that's that's now the expectation for customers in China [TS]

02:17:37   like you just go get different app stores and offices in the phone that's [TS]

02:17:41   not the excitation anywhere else in the world and it's an expectation that is so [TS]

02:17:45   cemented that I i generally believed [TS]

02:17:48   in alternative isn't it isn't isn't a viable isn't a viable think that's why [TS]

02:17:53   what's more compelling and interesting to me is is what's gonna be built on top [TS]

02:17:58   of iOS or Android in and that's where I think Amazon should Amazon should be [TS]

02:18:05   that's where their efforts should be focused on again this is balanced with [TS]

02:18:09   this is such a problem companies is is armed companies get so wrapped up in [TS]

02:18:15   what way you can make a good argument strategically important 4 a.m. sunday on [TS]

02:18:22   their phone and it's really easy to just kind of ignore the part of like it [TS]

02:18:26   actually happening it's like the question mark west-northwest profit that [TS]

02:18:31   we have a platform like but but but with like windows or the Amazon deals winners [TS]

02:18:39   for particular white people I called my crutches needs to get developers [TS]

02:18:44   the problem is Microsoft's not the one making the decision to developers are [TS]

02:18:48   Microsoft 0 control over what they do or don't do and and that's and if you're if [TS]

02:18:55   if a key to your plan depends on independent third-party actors who are [TS]

02:19:02   like wildly disparate and like you get touched all of them making a decision [TS]

02:19:08   that's not a very good strategic plan even if from a big picture it seems [TS]

02:19:13   obvious ways to do that and you see this company's tripping up on this again and [TS]

02:19:17   again just just like skipping over that one detail that actually will sink the [TS]

02:19:23   whole thing totally agree to take one last break here and thank our third and [TS]

02:19:31   final sponsor the show and it is are very good friends at igloo igloo is the [TS]

02:19:37   internet you'll actually like easy to use with all sorts of apps that are [TS]

02:19:43   built right into the system [TS]

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02:20:02   everything on the glue is built with responsive design to your internet [TS]

02:20:07   already works like a champ on virtually any device you-name-it iOS Android and [TS]

02:20:13   Blackberry anything with WebKit WebKit browser gonna worker II and it's going [TS]

02:20:19   to be perfectly sized everything works great cause it's all mobile web stuff [TS]

02:20:24   all scales perfectly for the new iPhone + iPhone sex right from the start you [TS]

02:20:31   can review documents you can post project updates you can change [TS]

02:20:35   administrative settings talk about anything related to team all from your [TS]

02:20:42   phone [TS]

02:20:43   exactly the same as you do from the desktop anything you can do an igloo you [TS]

02:20:47   can do from mobile really really they take it super seriously and it really [TS]

02:20:52   looks good and works great [TS]

02:20:53   their final preview engine is fully html5 compatible so anything that you [TS]

02:21:02   can look at in the regular version of Hindu will render perfectly on your [TS]

02:21:08   device this past June last summer [TS]

02:21:15   gardener released their fame Magic Quadrant for social software in the [TS]

02:21:19   workplace [TS]

02:21:20   paper this is a gardener in your eyes start rolling over and whatever well in [TS]

02:21:25   the enterprise market enterprise I see I'm so far out of it with any enterprise [TS]

02:21:35   market gardeners a big deal this is a thing that garner put out for the [TS]

02:21:39   enterprise where they just rate all the different types of Internet that are out [TS]

02:21:45   there and for the sixth consecutive your igloo tiny little igloo the upstart is [TS]

02:21:49   listed right there along giants like Microsoft IBM Google VMware Salesforce [TS]

02:21:55   ASAP right up with those guys and then reported values the size of the vendor [TS]

02:22:00   and gardeners terms it's called viability is praised for their [TS]

02:22:04   responsiveness to customer support you call it when you need help guess what [TS]

02:22:09   you get a clue and you get help [TS]

02:22:11   here's his right from the Gartner report feedback from includes reference [TS]

02:22:15   customers was consistently positive they praised the products quick deployment [TS]

02:22:19   configuration and customisation flexibility with the self-service [TS]

02:22:24   options for non-technical users control over branding and information [TS]

02:22:28   organization in the ease of use they also praised the responsiveness of a [TS]

02:22:33   glove as an organization in other words translated to plain English would garner [TS]

02:22:38   saying is what I've been saying on these sponsorships for awhile is all true it's [TS]

02:22:42   easy to use [TS]

02:22:43   have to be a technical expert you can control yourself and set it up just the [TS]

02:22:47   way you need it for your team to use and same as always the most amazing part but [TS]

02:22:53   here's the thing you sounds good you gonna do easy just go there [TS]

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02:23:02   that's like 10 people under you can just use it for free in perpetuity and not [TS]

02:23:07   worry about it if you have a bigger team you can put ten people together to try [TS]

02:23:11   it out see if it meets your needs before you pay in the cold before you give them [TS]

02:23:15   a credit card or anything like that all you do is go there sign up and start [TS]

02:23:20   using it [TS]

02:23:21   see for yourself so here's the special URLs got a code so they'll know you came [TS]

02:23:26   from the show it Ingram software dot com slash the talk show it was software dot [TS]

02:23:32   com slash the talk show you've got a team [TS]

02:23:36   and you have collaborate you you're not happy with the way you guys are [TS]

02:23:40   collaborating check out it is really really good stuff but thanks to the last [TS]

02:23:48   but not least big week for Microsoft the Afghan finally so they had a big event [TS]

02:23:53   in been read and i guess its density just for Windows tender when does tennis [TS]

02:23:59   really just part of it i think thats that mean that's that it's a shame I [TS]

02:24:04   think because everyone is talking about this project lowlands and no one is [TS]

02:24:10   talking about what the event was to be about which is one problematic into its [TS]

02:24:15   particular problematic because I thought that the the part that the event was [TS]

02:24:18   actually but was actually pretty compelling yeah I thought so too I [TS]

02:24:22   watched live and catch the whole thing but I watched most of it I watched close [TS]

02:24:27   to two hours of it after gonna miss a little bit at the beginning of the [TS]

02:24:29   windows 10 but I had the exact same thought I was like watching the windows [TS]

02:24:33   10 stuff I was like I'm pretty impressed this is pretty intriguing I like where [TS]

02:24:38   they're going with this one operating system [TS]

02:24:41   think and you know the demos were good and evil is funny because Microsoft i [TS]

02:24:46   think is notorious for having demos fail during the awards and and they promised [TS]

02:24:51   look this stuff is all early there's gonna be a lot of bugs in these demos [TS]

02:24:54   and I thought every time I was seamless which is trying to because they warned [TS]

02:24:58   that there are going to be buggin and and and I thought it was wrapped up as I [TS]

02:25:01   got was a hell of an event [TS]

02:25:03   and then it just kept going and I was like wow I can't believe they're mixing [TS]

02:25:07   these things together and on the other hand I could see how someone else would [TS]

02:25:10   say well done Abba do the same thing with announces two pounds and their big [TS]

02:25:14   deal and you know flagship products of the company and then at the same event [TS]

02:25:21   they did I will pay an apple watch you know and released the preview of this [TS]

02:25:25   device which isn't coming out yet which is exactly you know the holliman's isn't [TS]

02:25:29   coming out but there's something about it did to me was was less cool well [TS]

02:25:35   proportioned in Microsoft event where Howland's distracted heavily from [TS]

02:25:39   Hollywood West Amazon we we talked about the fact that the iPhone every kind of [TS]

02:25:44   got its day in the Sun yeah well I think I think well in broad terms I think one [TS]

02:25:50   factor that is that the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 plus I think by all accounts [TS]

02:25:53   and its next week we're gonna get Apple's quarterly finances in [TS]

02:25:57   everybody's expecting to be gangbusters and I think they're going to exceed [TS]

02:26:01   expectations I think so to all the evidence we can see in the dick use we [TS]

02:26:06   can get you know is that you know everything everybody thought is true [TS]

02:26:10   that they were selling well and you ask their selling particularly well in Asian [TS]

02:26:14   markets where larger sits and waits for for the fourth when a large one in a few [TS]

02:26:21   is you're seeing especially in Asian markets [TS]

02:26:24   regret about portable talking about the proportion of the 66 + that proportion [TS]

02:26:29   is changing as the six plus get supply so i i think which means that the the [TS]

02:26:35   Eris I'm presently higher like it's it's a lot higher because it's $100 higher at [TS]

02:26:42   each pricing tier and its $100 higher at the starting price so anything about [TS]

02:26:47   demand anything that shows positive demand for the six plus in particular is [TS]

02:26:51   huge for Apple in terms of average selling price I I honestly wouldn't be [TS]

02:26:57   surprised if average selling price year-over-year is significantly higher [TS]

02:27:03   which I don't think it's ever happened before I think it's always going down it [TS]

02:27:06   always be on the watch quarter because because well I am saying you're exactly [TS]

02:27:12   agree I agree right it's you know an Apple has held average selling prices [TS]

02:27:18   high compared to the rest of the smartphone industry you know obviously [TS]

02:27:21   you know that extraordinary their exception in that regard but it still [TS]

02:27:26   has slowly trickled down since the original iPhone you know in a way that's [TS]

02:27:31   not worrisome for the company it's probably actually been a positive sign [TS]

02:27:34   that they've kept them as high as they have had kept the trickle low but I [TS]

02:27:38   think there's a serious chance to the existence of the six plus will actually [TS]

02:27:41   raise the average selling price year-over-year only the lunch I fully [TS]

02:27:45   expected to be the case I agree and like you said I do think I think they're [TS]

02:27:48   still supply constraint on my think that they're selling them they're there they [TS]

02:27:52   would they you know they can't make them fast enough to meet demand by this story [TS]

02:27:59   of the two phones again they're super important I think they're super [TS]

02:28:02   successful like profoundly successful maybe that may be the most successful [TS]

02:28:06   launch year of iPhone to date not just in fact of record-breaking numbers but [TS]

02:28:11   just exceeding expectations but there weren't they weren't hard to explain [TS]

02:28:16   they were like the iPhone but it's bigger yeah you know and what was his [TS]

02:28:25   shoulder demonstrate while he talked about you know a lot of the photography [TS]

02:28:28   stuff that they've done it better camera that was not really that hard to explain [TS]

02:28:32   it a better camera than ever and they're bigger and they're amazing battery life [TS]

02:28:39   and that's it i mean it was not a hard thing to explain because it's truly just [TS]

02:28:44   an iteration over what they've done before and they made a bigger whereas [TS]

02:28:47   Windows 10 compared to everything else is it demanded a story it's a new thing [TS]

02:28:55   this this whole strategy of 10 s that runs on everything from loans to small [TS]

02:29:00   tablets to pick tablets to hybrids to desktops is all new and the way that [TS]

02:29:06   they're sort of [TS]

02:29:07   have this one OS but different interfaces that are suited to the [TS]

02:29:12   different size devices demanded demos inattention and is it tour it's the [TS]

02:29:20   whole story Microsoft for the rest of the year and it's a lot I think brushed [TS]

02:29:25   that aside with the prototype by this guy thing no matter how quickly it's not [TS]

02:29:32   even more profound than that like Microsoft like this they can't take for [TS]

02:29:42   granted [TS]

02:29:42   windows on the PC it is under real threat I believe not just from the Mac [TS]

02:29:50   which is growing remarkably but also from Chromebooks like the fact of the [TS]

02:29:55   matter is like I i I'm on record as saying and and may not have learned on [TS]

02:30:01   an Apple podcast but you're not at all things excellent podcast but like yeah [TS]

02:30:09   that's why crumble doesn't mix with us but most people would be exceptionally [TS]

02:30:15   well served by having an iPhone and a Chromebook and and a lot of windows [TS]

02:30:22   especially consumer market is arguably due to inertia but when it comes to the [TS]

02:30:27   enterprise space like the enterprise in businesses that the core Microsoft mean [TS]

02:30:32   you think that consumers hated Windows 8 reviewers here within 10 G sigler his [TS]

02:30:37   windows 8 like the enterprise hated it was eight times 100 because I mean there [TS]

02:30:44   was X under the surface there's a lot of good stuff on a date for foreign [TS]

02:30:48   ministry in security and all that sort of stuff but the last thing any sort of [TS]

02:30:53   in mister wants to deal with his having to teach people how to use their [TS]

02:30:55   computer right like that that's that's awful and that's what we know as a kind [TS]

02:31:01   of brought them in so Microsoft like there is nothing more important to [TS]

02:31:06   Windows I don't think windows should be more support me that later but there's [TS]

02:31:12   nothing more important to Windows then like laying out like [TS]

02:31:16   we've come to our senses like this is you can depend on us were awake sorry [TS]

02:31:21   about that this is something you can see and believe in and that message needs to [TS]

02:31:25   get our in needs to be pushed out you think it's you think it's fair is fair [TS]

02:31:29   to describe it is stop the bleeding [TS]

02:31:31   absolutely i me away with one was stopped the bleeding arguably but that [TS]

02:31:37   was more of a like a battlefield like like what's on your arm and liked it it [TS]

02:31:43   it stands as the like the blood flow Yeah Yeah Yeahs and turquoise [TS]

02:31:51   attorney for demonstrating are bad for ya tourniquet yeah I agree and this is [TS]

02:31:58   their way of saying look here's something that's new that we've been [TS]

02:32:01   working on and it's different and that we're proud to say we think you're gonna [TS]

02:32:04   like you know here's a saying here's our vision for the future and we think it [TS]

02:32:08   goes along with what you want to hear from us [TS]

02:32:11   night only group that I am even at the Chromebook printed my chromebox is [TS]

02:32:16   through my son and they have a lot of them as most of the computing devices to [TS]

02:32:19   school he gets user Chromebooks I mean there is a mixer some MacBooks there too [TS]

02:32:24   but they don't get the touch imagine there's some iPads but it mostly when [TS]

02:32:28   the kids do some computer it's on crime books and it's interesting to me because [TS]

02:32:32   he complains about him and his not again I've said this before many times it's if [TS]

02:32:36   anything he'd like to tweak me not pleased me so he's not like Pro Apple [TS]

02:32:41   because his dad writes about a boy if anything he would love to complain about [TS]

02:32:44   to get under my skin he complained about the Chromebooks cuz he deserves their [TS]

02:32:50   pieces of junk thursday or Samsung's you know just flimsy did he complained about [TS]

02:32:55   the keys he says all his friends 22 they are complaining all want them [TS]

02:32:59   place with MacBooks and iPhones interesting than a couple weeks ago he [TS]

02:33:03   said they had a big thing where they all got called together in like the lower [TS]

02:33:08   school or middle school middle school now the middle school principal column [TS]

02:33:12   together in one of the other fifth-grade classes trashed a bunch of the [TS]

02:33:16   Chromebooks you know just the way that fifth-grade boys probably the boy's face [TS]

02:33:22   it [TS]

02:33:22   and I was and I said no I said you know what that's why they make you guys [TS]

02:33:26   should be scrapped Chromebooks and cinematic works because you guys are up [TS]

02:33:29   for them you know you don't treat them like you would your own you treat them [TS]

02:33:32   like you know your property but it made me think just enlarge some its there's a [TS]

02:33:38   market for computers that an institution chooses for you for other reasons and [TS]

02:33:44   that may not be what you would want to use yourself and that microsoft owns [TS]

02:33:47   them owned hundred-percent they like a hundred percent of that market of stuff [TS]

02:33:53   that institution of any kind whether it's a business corporation like a [TS]

02:33:56   fortune 500 or a middle school or something like that and Chromebooks are [TS]

02:34:01   absolutely and it informs everything else because you know what do they do on [TS]

02:34:08   a Chromebook when they certainly don't use Microsoft Word right i mean that's [TS]

02:34:11   when they're typing stuff it's in Google Docs you know and so everything that [TS]

02:34:16   falls out of that of them not buying if they're going to buy kids a bunch of [TS]

02:34:21   piece of crap no books that can be used as beaters then being Chromebooks [TS]

02:34:25   instead of being Windows machines has all sorts of repercussions other than [TS]

02:34:30   just the licensing fee for Windows that they're not getting their sales don't [TS]

02:34:34   get used to office i mean the reality is most people don't need office but we're [TS]

02:34:39   used to it you're used to it and that's super powerful and take it for granted [TS]

02:34:45   it's just one you know schools just went on but I know you know there's no doubt [TS]

02:34:52   miners to Chromebooks are huge thing in education [TS]

02:34:54   no no no evidence numbers reflect that [TS]

02:34:58   the other thing is frustrating because like I actually genuinely like using it [TS]

02:35:03   like if your stuff is a is actually all in the cloud [TS]

02:35:06   it's it's it's a delight to use in the way like an iPad as level use in that [TS]

02:35:10   lake there's no there's no crushed right there's no dealing with updates or like [TS]

02:35:16   stuff popping up like you like when you deal with always stand or windows or [TS]

02:35:21   anything there's just so much stuff that came before that still hanging around [TS]

02:35:25   for various reasons [TS]

02:35:27   whereas with a Chromebook it's it's just so it's it's an appliance its you turn [TS]

02:35:32   it on and you type stuff in it and he put away and I that's why i like it [TS]

02:35:37   because it's so simple and that's why won't the pixel because the pixel like [TS]

02:35:41   I'm paying for a nominal hardware like the pixel is I can't I can't speak on [TS]

02:35:47   the keyboard trackpad screen all Apple quality if I put the keyboard above [TS]

02:35:53   Apple actually and by the problem is most of their cheap market which is [TS]

02:36:02   which makes me very sad day when how many pixels file free money but that's [TS]

02:36:08   another one that's all I have to pull you in the Apple keyboard like a lot [TS]

02:36:13   about the couple I write like my daily updates will you know which are more [TS]

02:36:18   preferential to current events and I am working a lot I'll do those most read [TS]

02:36:23   those IMAX screens up like that but like my big articles where they're more like [TS]

02:36:28   for lack of better words like the pieces are alike like where I'm trying to [TS]

02:36:32   articulate an argument I was always right there on the pixel in just because [TS]

02:36:37   I love the environment right now there's nothing else going on and it's a great [TS]

02:36:41   taping of army the screen gorgeous screen and like you just like it lost in [TS]

02:36:47   the document and there's I still I still use it like at least weekly if not more [TS]

02:36:54   yeah well I don't think it's any coincidence that I mean there's the [TS]

02:36:57   whole rise of you know like single window window user mode and and text [TS]

02:37:01   editors that are you know like [TS]

02:37:03   by word and other ones that are meant to be a distraction free and run you know [TS]

02:37:07   as a single window but I think in general and a web app you use even if [TS]

02:37:13   you don't use it [TS]

02:37:14   single window user mode or any kind of thing that's designed to be [TS]

02:37:20   distraction-free writing on laptop is just inherently more distraction free [TS]

02:37:27   then writing at a desk top with a big window you know we totally it feels more [TS]

02:37:32   focus is no tenders no question he did hear from people who write anything you [TS]

02:37:35   know from novelists to journalists you know the the biggest forum to the [TS]

02:37:41   quickest and shortest form you know they just live and die by their totally [TS]

02:37:47   totally [TS]

02:37:48   with Windows though is what I was most impressed by was actually the very very [TS]

02:37:55   beginning the part that you missed where they basically articulated the idea that [TS]

02:38:01   Windows needed to be or you need to be personal and it wasn't about the device [TS]

02:38:09   it was about a person a person should be able to go from device to device like [TS]

02:38:14   they're booked into where where there's more devices than people in in the [TS]

02:38:17   Microsoft has always been about the PC and that that that's how their business [TS]

02:38:22   models are based on that other product development based on everything based on [TS]

02:38:25   the device and but the world today is you have to focus on the person and so [TS]

02:38:33   you have to have that in the apples doing two of continuity as our staff is [TS]

02:38:37   you need to have the seamless experience it's no longer enough to think about [TS]

02:38:41   just OS 10 like I love john served uses conclusion the assembly he really taking [TS]

02:38:46   this well like it's not that Apple is now developing disparate operating [TS]

02:38:51   systems are developing one system with various manifestations that need to work [TS]

02:38:57   together and and gold cross from wrist to two laptop to desktop to phone or [TS]

02:39:03   tablet [TS]

02:39:04   and microsoftr to clear this is well into a bigger deal for Microsoft because [TS]

02:39:07   Apple's cells cells the actual hardware so if this new world fits their business [TS]

02:39:13   models actually even better for Apple to the consultant that many more devices [TS]

02:39:16   for Microsoft is a big shift because it tells a change in everything that they [TS]

02:39:22   do in the weather companies put together in a way to make money and to hear them [TS]

02:39:26   articulated so clearly and succinctly was really encouraging and I guess my [TS]

02:39:34   only complaint with the first part of the part of the presentation the part [TS]

02:39:39   that we both liked was the only problem with it was that all the Devils were [TS]

02:39:43   were a PC and Windows Phone or or Windows tablet and that's just not the [TS]

02:39:50   reality the reality is people with a dilemma I think a Windows PC with an [TS]

02:39:55   iPhone with an Android phone because that's that's their customer and I i [TS]

02:39:58   just think we need to double down on the PC and instead they can't distracted [TS]

02:40:03   with this thing and then you had the delegating up and talk about we love [TS]

02:40:07   windows or what people of Windows it's just kind of went off the rails at odds [TS]

02:40:13   LOD haven't Emma with iPhone and I know that you know part of it part of [TS]

02:40:17   Microsoft is more open to that I mean you know to go back to last year and the [TS]

02:40:21   bill conference where they had you know me and Brent Simmons and Dave whiskers [TS]

02:40:24   come out and featured product video for them because Vesper uses the Windows [TS]

02:40:31   Live observers as and and that's all very true but it would be hard sell in a [TS]

02:40:40   Windows 10 focused event but it is interesting and I do think that in [TS]

02:40:44   general sense that they you know it's just you know in a polite way that they [TS]

02:40:48   can only do so much year over year but that they're iterating [TS]

02:40:51   and I feel like they're going in a very similar way we're like you said with [TS]

02:40:55   Syracuse's conclusion of the assembly review that it's sort of one system with [TS]

02:40:59   different interfaces for the different devices and I kind of feel like they [TS]

02:41:05   miss that with Windows 8 where they kind of shipped everything with this total [TS]

02:41:09   whether it was a touch device or not and it was really mostly you know I don't [TS]

02:41:15   know they just the overall tiled interface just really did not work well [TS]

02:41:19   I think on laptops and certainly not on desktops and it was really just sort of [TS]

02:41:24   a tablet / phone interface but now they've got you know it's it's more it's [TS]

02:41:29   really you know really is the same windows 10 like that the whole thing [TS]

02:41:32   with the apps I think it's fascinating and it shows how they're doing it like a [TS]

02:41:35   higher level than Apple where there's not a desktop Windows app store or not [TS]

02:41:41   going to be for Windows 10 in a phone 1 like if you get a Twitter app it could [TS]

02:41:46   be the same app and it runs on your phone or tablet runs on your PC but has [TS]

02:41:50   very different interfaces like when you're using on your PC [TS]

02:41:54   it won't be like you're running an iPhone app exactly i mean i think i mean [TS]

02:41:57   market had a had a kind of a discourse on ATP a few weeks ago about why we [TS]

02:42:03   gonna build overcast for the Mac and in the Microsoft vision that would really [TS]

02:42:08   be decision he would already have it easy after designed to interface but [TS]

02:42:11   like right now it's a big step for him to write a Mac out be there won't be the [TS]

02:42:17   case there would be the case for Windows yeah it's like I said earlier with [TS]

02:42:23   Instagram where at in today's iOS world if you do the stuff that's necessary to [TS]

02:42:28   support the original iPhone 5s sized iPhone 676 plus-size going to the iPad [TS]

02:42:35   is just a fourth size and you know that's sort of what they're doing with [TS]

02:42:39   the stuff and this is a brand new I mean it was a big part of the message should [TS]

02:42:43   build last may was the way that you can build these universal app said Brian [TS]

02:42:47   cross [TS]

02:42:48   incredible you know from TVs to found with interfaces specific to those [TS]

02:42:56   devices you know that you could have the same app you can get it from the App [TS]

02:42:59   Store and on the phone [TS]

02:43:01   clearly it touched base device where it's all based on touching the glass and [TS]

02:43:05   on your TV it's all based on using a remote-controlled down the great thing [TS]

02:43:10   is though is the thing for for for Microsoft is both like the the the [TS]

02:43:14   problem and the opportunity is the this idea of moving from device to device [TS]

02:43:21   it's actually not it's not that much about the operating system is it because [TS]

02:43:27   although if you think about it [TS]

02:43:29   wake it's all it's all about the cloud is in its net is national the cloud it's [TS]

02:43:35   about a whole bunch of clouds so my facebook is is the same everywhere [TS]

02:43:39   because it's on Facebook scarred by Twitter's the same everywhere my emails [TS]

02:43:43   the same like a lot of the services already have are already in sync across [TS]

02:43:47   devices because they're inherently kind of cloud-based and and that's i mean [TS]

02:43:53   that that's so till almost like to use the word to over index on on the [TS]

02:44:01   operating system being consistent is if you think about it less important than [TS]

02:44:06   having that kind of service where that that's the part that is actually [TS]

02:44:09   consistent the cloud is consistent across all your devices and oh by the [TS]

02:44:13   way that Microsoft is doing really great stuff in the cloud and I do think that [TS]

02:44:19   the delegates this there's a clear part of Microsoft think it's this and i think [TS]

02:44:23   is still an opportunity to the group can still be better even on iowa's on [TS]

02:44:31   Android and I think Microsoft is making strong moves in that area yes it would [TS]

02:44:37   have been a radical move would have loved to help powerful have been to have [TS]

02:44:42   Microsoft just fully embraced the new we are the best PC operating system [TS]

02:44:48   screw the max with a Chromebook I mean I was we can disagree or you can disagree [TS]

02:44:52   but I that's a fair position for them to take arms and we with are required [TS]

02:44:58   we work well with whatever device you bring along with [TS]

02:45:02   it especially with Windows Phone but whatever you know whatever you're using [TS]

02:45:08   metal work great with yeah that's why I get Microsoft thing like we were like if [TS]

02:45:14   you use a Windows it'll be the basket is true only if you if you get everything [TS]

02:45:18   from one company to get a better experience but the promises just that [TS]

02:45:22   it's not reality and I just over I'm a big fan of there we go back to the [TS]

02:45:28   Amazon thing like you can win you want to go with what's best for you or what [TS]

02:45:33   is like the way that customers actually their lives [TS]

02:45:36   know so I feel like the event should have I i feel like the surface hub which [TS]

02:45:41   is their big 84 inch for KTV touchscreen white board meeting [TS]

02:45:50   fingers I feel like that that would have been a good way to write that fits that [TS]

02:45:56   it wasn't distracting from the earlier message to me it emphasized the error [TS]

02:46:00   message which is that Windows 10 runs on everything from this hold up a phone [TS]

02:46:05   right and even a big Lumia phone even a big five and a half inch phone is tiny [TS]

02:46:10   compared to it Chinese Foreign Stevie and it was a cool surprise because the [TS]

02:46:14   TV had been right there showing slides the whole presentation you know that [TS]

02:46:19   this thing that they were announcing which was a surprise was right there in [TS]

02:46:23   front of everybody and it's time to the enterprise in like which is the part the [TS]

02:46:28   market they really needed to a show right and it's you know here's here's [TS]

02:46:33   here's one thing where if Microsoft can get out in front and you know Apple [TS]

02:46:38   didn't say anything like this Google doesn't have anything like this nobody [TS]

02:46:41   has anything like this right this is a product that's not really like anything [TS]

02:46:44   else and like you said there's a clear you can easily see how there's a lot of [TS]

02:46:49   people that this week her saying hey we could use that right we we could use [TS]

02:46:54   that that would be good for us whether it's the whiteboard part or the meeting [TS]

02:46:59   part or both [TS]

02:47:00   you know it's it's it's not like you have to jump through hoops to find a [TS]

02:47:05   reason to do it you might want to buy it [TS]

02:47:08   and then end it right there because I think that the whole and stuff [TS]

02:47:11   not that they should have done it I just save it for build right why not do that [TS]

02:47:14   it build and have cool fun thing you know maybe they've got something else [TS]

02:47:19   for build too but I know save that for build and let the windows 10 event [TS]

02:47:23   breathe for itself I can I think it's a tricky tricky comp it's a tricky thing [TS]

02:47:28   being one of those big companies we've got a lot of stuff coming out throughout [TS]

02:47:32   the year how many events do you break them into you know how much do [TS]

02:47:36   shoehorned into one keynote [TS]

02:47:38   but I think they made a mistake by doing Allahabad I cannot see how and when it's [TS]

02:47:43   ellen's gonna ship in a month or two months [TS]

02:47:46   yeah I don't have it also makes me a little skeptical and and the people who [TS]

02:47:53   got to play with it all raved about the experience and so it doesn't seem like [TS]

02:47:57   there's any kind of its a real thing yeah yeah it's it's you know it's real [TS]

02:48:03   technology in every I didn't see a single person who tried it who didn't [TS]

02:48:07   give it a very positive response but it's clearly prototype hardware you know [TS]

02:48:13   that the their promise shipping device is the thing with no cables just put a [TS]

02:48:18   battery operated and you put it on your head and that's it [TS]

02:48:21   whereas the thing that they let people try involved I can battery pack on your [TS]

02:48:27   waist and a cable connecting the battery pack to the thing on your head [TS]

02:48:32   and they had to take physical measurements of the distance between [TS]

02:48:36   your pupils and then enter it by hand in the device whereas the you know the [TS]

02:48:41   shipping product is supposed to be you know like if you've got one and I try it [TS]

02:48:45   on its gonna the device itself will measure the pupil distance to calibrate [TS]

02:48:49   itself it's all very that raises all sorts of reds are sorry I read the [TS]

02:49:00   Harvard and it's sort of you know of course I'm gonna bring it back to Apple [TS]

02:49:05   but it's an interesting contrast with the watch where when they showed us the [TS]

02:49:09   watch back in October or September right September was launched it was i mean i [TS]

02:49:20   didnt say its final hardware but it was as close to final you know I'm sure [TS]

02:49:25   there might be some tweaks or something like that but it was you know they were [TS]

02:49:27   real things they let us analyze try my wrists and you know it's the same [TS]

02:49:33   materials that were stainless they they were told they were aluminum all the [TS]

02:49:38   bands were there we got to play with the bands and they just didn't let us see [TS]

02:49:43   the software you know they just had the demo but the software but the actual [TS]

02:49:46   hardware was there I mean it's there's no trickery about it that's interesting [TS]

02:49:51   and worry about result that Microsoft had the software pretty nail down but [TS]

02:49:55   not the hardware well now but they didn't really it wasn't it was the [TS]

02:49:59   software was also a Kindle software they took people through I'll count you know [TS]

02:50:03   everybody gotta say well I'm in in Canada Norway where it wasn't just [TS]

02:50:08   playing with the watch it really just playing a lute and there was no [TS]

02:50:11   interactivity at all whereas clearly this thing was actually I guess you move [TS]

02:50:15   your head was adjusting what you saw you know it was all but you know the things [TS]

02:50:19   that you did work very very limited it was the everybody got the same minecraft [TS]

02:50:23   game everybody got the same [TS]

02:50:26   you know a Skype call to how to hook up which I was the most compelling yeah [TS]

02:50:33   that's really cool out there did the democratic you know in a product video [TS]

02:50:38   they showed somebody getting help doing some home plumbing repair in the thing [TS]

02:50:43   that they gave to the journalists it was a little bit of like it was a hooking up [TS]

02:50:46   a light switch little home electricity and the ideas they had an expert [TS]

02:50:49   electrician on the other end using Skype on a tablet who can see what you see [TS]

02:50:53   through your Holland and then he could annotated with his finger on the tablet [TS]

02:51:01   by saying here take this cable here and then you know draw a line on it and look [TS]

02:51:06   this thing up to there and do that you know which isn't very compelling is that [TS]

02:51:09   is compelling from a user perspective is compiled from a product perspective is [TS]

02:51:13   that they're not a platform where you could see there being all kinds of [TS]

02:51:17   services being offered you know over this and it is the Apple like I think in [TS]

02:51:23   the long run I'm more interested in augment really them in virtual reality I [TS]

02:51:28   mean I could drift looks amazing but to me that's in the same vein as video [TS]

02:51:32   games [TS]

02:51:34   I mean I might mean to be dismissive cuz I realize video games are an enormous [TS]

02:51:40   industry you know like boris did you just put posted a point that that the [TS]

02:51:46   App Store is now paying developers more than the box office receipts of [TS]

02:51:51   hollywood combined in NUS and some people I lick yes some people in town [TS]

02:51:57   and I was like well it's not a huge is not like a magic number it doesn't mean [TS]

02:52:01   anything in particular its just a just put it in context though you we've all [TS]

02:52:05   grown up knowing Hollywood Hollywood it's a big deal you know the Apple App [TS]

02:52:10   Store alone is now bigger than its destination it's a thing you go in do [TS]

02:52:16   whereas like wood so comply with the smartphone is it's with you all the time [TS]

02:52:21   in your actual real life and you can see why you like 10 years down the road [TS]

02:52:25   where the what Microsoft is doing is actually like a normal pair of glasses [TS]

02:52:31   glasses like the the the fundamental concept I don't think was flawed [TS]

02:52:37   just everything about the products accused was was horribly fired right and [TS]

02:52:42   and a lot of the country feedback i've gotten this week you know it's like wow [TS]

02:52:49   can you how can you say that this looks cool and you're still no did nothing but [TS]

02:52:53   should all over Google glass for two years and it's again it's like I never I [TS]

02:52:57   and I don't think anybody ever said that augmented reality is a goofy idea that's [TS]

02:53:03   never gonna take off it was glass in particular everything about glass that [TS]

02:53:07   the actual nature of how it was presented in their their proposal how [TS]

02:53:10   you do to rate was was wrong not the idea that augmented reality in general [TS]

02:53:16   has been now you know I can see it as I can see where you know obtrusive [TS]

02:53:22   headsets like what you know colin is going to be when it ships I mean you [TS]

02:53:28   know you look like robert was ok I could see you know there's all sorts of things [TS]

02:53:35   you do at home that you wouldn't do in public that you look weird like being [TS]

02:53:39   sure you know hunting your shoulders over a little video game controller is [TS]

02:53:43   not something you would do while you know you know out in public but you know [TS]

02:53:49   why you're playing a game it's fine if you think about something like what's [TS]

02:53:52   the previous the iPhone it's like it's like the iPod but from a a fundamental [TS]

02:53:56   level they're very different products the iPod was dependent on a PC the [TS]

02:54:00   center of your existence was the PC that Israel hub and the iPad which you carry [TS]

02:54:04   music with you yet from me like a hardware perspective the iPod very much [TS]

02:54:09   for the iPhone [TS]

02:54:11   what Apple learn miniaturization battery technology all that sort of stuff went [TS]

02:54:16   to the iPhone and I think it's a similar thing here right now he'll start out as [TS]

02:54:20   being something you do at home you're not gonna wear this thing outside but [TS]

02:54:25   Microsoft will develop the expertise in [TS]

02:54:28   and like how to build this sort of stuff it'll get smaller and at some point they [TS]

02:54:32   will be ready to make the shift your to being on the outside with Google jump [TS]

02:54:38   straight to be outside when the technologies and even remotely close to [TS]

02:54:41   being ready and and that's why it was a mess in LA and everything fell out of [TS]

02:54:47   that everything fell out of that because then by trying to make it small enough [TS]

02:54:50   that you'd even vaguely want to wear or be willing to wear in public it was so [TS]

02:54:54   technically limited that it was there was never anything about it that was [TS]

02:54:59   like oh wow holy crap whereas also you know that was more or less the [TS]

02:55:04   responsibility hadn't got to try that on the whole ends at the Microsoft event [TS]

02:55:07   was wow this is so frustrating rightly get the whole and it was genuinely [TS]

02:55:13   compelling is compelling [TS]

02:55:15   from me today perspective it's compelling from me like 10 years from [TS]

02:55:19   now perspective end end it's just a shame that end so I guess they got the [TS]

02:55:26   harlins benefit but I mean like why did it have to be at this event I that's [TS]

02:55:32   exactly my point exactly I really couldn't agree more and I and as the [TS]

02:55:37   week has gone on and I've seen what people have written about I my that was [TS]

02:55:41   my initial reaction on day one and it's only been reaffirmed because almost [TS]

02:55:44   everything i've seen written since it's been about Holland not about Windows [TS]

02:55:48   yeah and in one day needed to make points about Windows 10 l like this is [TS]

02:55:53   windows in chill out with you know we've become your senses and to like the visit [TS]

02:55:58   was compelling but no one no one's being attached to it and it's a hard thing you [TS]

02:56:03   know I know you're there I can see why they're excited about it I can see why [TS]

02:56:06   they might have been excited to announce it but I think you gotta gotta hold that [TS]

02:56:10   bullet for a little longer [TS]

02:56:12   yeah and get it so that you don't have to wait until it's ready to ship you [TS]

02:56:15   know next week but you know just a little closer and they have an event [TS]

02:56:20   coming up their build coming up in just a few months and I you know I don't do [TS]

02:56:23   anything that would happen in the next few months that would have made it less [TS]

02:56:26   of the [TS]

02:56:26   according to unveil their anything it'll be better diet I don't know what caused [TS]

02:56:33   it would only be you know further along [TS]

02:56:36   yeah I can't help but think that they really wasted an opportunity missed I'm [TS]

02:56:40   distracted from what the cool things they did have to announce and you know [TS]

02:56:46   unveiling israelis because it's almost like a lack of confidence right like [TS]

02:56:51   they weren't they weren't covered in what they had to announce early third [TS]

02:56:56   their status as a company I guess I could see where that comes from I guess [TS]

02:57:00   but like they felt they needed to do sit up and they didn't need to write yeah [TS]

02:57:06   yeah I kind of agree with that [TS]

02:57:09   otherwise it was a pretty well run event that I do think that they're getting [TS]

02:57:13   their act together and after yeah I mean like like this are didn't like it sounds [TS]

02:57:18   stupid but they started on time the presentation retired the demolition fail [TS]

02:57:22   like and that's that's that will that stuff matters and it wasn't the case [TS]

02:57:29   even just a couple years yeah and it's you know I think that it's it's also a [TS]

02:57:34   sign to me the whole event even with them in my mind in your mind the mistake [TS]

02:57:39   of tossing holland's into as unnecessary icing on the cake for distracting icing [TS]

02:57:45   on the cake [TS]

02:57:46   even with it it still felt like overall like a new Microsoft which i think they [TS]

02:57:52   they needed in B that Nutella needed you know to assert you know in a public way [TS]

02:57:57   to make it feel like you know he has changed in the course of this ship yeah [TS]

02:58:03   I love the frosting idea that there's that little was like this is really good [TS]

02:58:07   frosting its rugged cake but these days should go together [TS]

02:58:10   yeah you know and I i would say making windows 10 free i mean they're they're [TS]

02:58:18   calling it free for a free upgrade for anybody running Windows seven or eight [TS]

02:58:21   for the first year I don't know why they tacked on that first year why not just [TS]

02:58:25   say it's a free update for Windows seven re I guess the idea I only thing I can [TS]

02:58:29   think of is that they don't want people to wait they want people running Windows [TS]

02:58:32   7 Anytime Upgrade [TS]

02:58:34   within the first year but it just seems like a weird like asterisk to put on it [TS]

02:58:39   but the whole idea of him being freed seems like post Ballmer Microsoft [TS]

02:58:44   Windows it was free for the first three months if you have Windows seven I [TS]

02:58:50   believe so they did do it before and the reality is Microsoft makes the vast [TS]

02:58:54   majority of the revenue either from enterprise licensing or from new PC's [TS]

02:58:59   sold with Windows Phone only like 10% of revenue is ever come from people [TS]

02:59:03   actually paying for upgrades but that said it's still it still matters in his [TS]

02:59:08   meeting for any other one year things such as that but also they basically [TS]

02:59:12   said anyone who buys a Windows 10 PC will get upgrades for the like the wife [TS]

02:59:17   of the the life of the expected life of the PC and it sounds like it's going to [TS]

02:59:21   be more of it it really is more of a Apple sort of model late August 10 today [TS]

02:59:26   where you get it you're going to get upgrades in your not gonna pay pay for [TS]

02:59:30   the upgrades indeed that is a big deal to shift it it's a shift to this the [TS]

02:59:34   person being the center of sort of sort of mindset that that that is a bigger [TS]

02:59:40   shift from Microsoft than it is for Apple because it requires changing how [TS]

02:59:43   they make money in the end I kinda put an X on this week but I I think you're [TS]

02:59:48   right it is it is it is worth it is worth it [TS]

02:59:52   technology I think it's also it's even more worth acknowledging in a way that [TS]

02:59:56   like the bugs in software that we all been talking about this month or so [TS]

02:59:56   like the bugs in software that we all been talking about this month or so [TS]

03:00:00   it's easier to complain about then the things that they do that are just work [TS]

03:00:04   that are kind of amazing that they just work and you know it's easy to take [TS]

03:00:10   those things for granted I think Microsoft case praised for hey here's [TS]

03:00:14   Windows 10 it's a free update for Windows seven and eight users is worth [TS]

03:00:17   raising even more so because of how complicated Windows pricing has been in [TS]

03:00:21   the past you know with the PRO Edition Pro Enterprise Edition and you know a [TS]

03:00:28   different editions of the new version of Windows with you know it just boggles [TS]

03:00:33   the mind and I feel like just saying just windows 10 get a free update for [TS]

03:00:38   Windows seven days such a you know it's it's deserving of praise [TS]

03:00:42   if it is deserving of praise as their old strategy was deserving mockery yeah [TS]

03:00:48   it's always the Australian made a lot of money definitely did it and it was but [TS]

03:00:54   it was a salesperson strategy you know and I feel like it wasn't good for them [TS]

03:00:59   in the long run it definitely made money you know there's no bottom line [TS]

03:01:04   any any discussion or complained about bombers leadership of Microsoft have to [TS]

03:01:08   include the but money and ever-increasing amounts you know but it [TS]

03:01:14   it having it making your product Lincoln unnecessarily confusing even if it's [TS]

03:01:19   profitable you know in the short term I think it's detrimental to your branding [TS]

03:01:25   in the long I would fascinate for me to watch Mexico in this is part of it is [TS]

03:01:30   it's actually sounds with Adobe adobe has fundamentally shifted how they make [TS]

03:01:36   money from selling packaged software to selling software as a service basically [TS]

03:01:42   and Microsoft is kind of going through the same transition and it's and it's I [TS]

03:01:49   said as an expert on this week liked the thing about Microsoft you have to [TS]

03:01:53   culture everything in this is what you're witnessing of Microsoft in all [TS]

03:01:57   the criticism against the company [TS]

03:01:59   what they're going through is the price of being so absurdly successful yeah [TS]

03:02:04   like every every smidgen that Microsoft was less successful the easier the task [TS]

03:02:10   would be today [TS]

03:02:11   and and sell its like it's a testament to how successful they were that they're [TS]

03:02:18   having to go through such wrenching scenes is now and it's interesting to [TS]

03:02:25   watch in like I was a little down Adele speech in type of windows and stuff I [TS]

03:02:31   think now I think there may have been a political model to it but it's pretty [TS]

03:02:36   remarkable deceive the shift in Microsoft in just the last year yeah [TS]

03:02:40   that's you know they they needed to move fast they said they're gonna move fast [TS]

03:02:46   but you know actions speak louder than words and I think their actions back it [TS]

03:02:49   up so I think overall it was you know it was a very best event I think Microsoft [TS]

03:02:54   and while even though I think so could have easily been the better just by [TS]

03:02:58   holding all and yeah a little bit frustrating for them because like it is [TS]

03:03:07   not like they it's not like it was bad just the wrong time wrong point last [TS]

03:03:11   question when do you think Holland is gonna ship actually ship as I get [TS]

03:03:15   consumer spending you can just go online and buy and how much you think it's [TS]

03:03:18   going to cost I would guess late 2016 in limited supply it'll be hard to get an [TS]

03:03:30   exotic with Windows 10th time frame and needs like it's like when Windows tens [TS]

03:03:34   like the product on the market now Quinn with us 10 ships before a Windows 11 [TS]

03:03:37   ships that's what I thought I interpreted right exactly exactly [TS]

03:03:40   although I do I do wonder if there will ever be winners 11 like when final are [TS]

03:03:48   borrowing from from Apple [TS]

03:03:50   the the price that interesting [TS]

03:03:53   $300 289 wow I was thinking [TS]

03:04:00   I think 2016 I think if I wanted to actually have to be honest I have to say [TS]

03:04:06   like you probably second after 2016 I was gonna say a thousand dollars yeah [TS]

03:04:11   that's possible I have it was more a like are they going to actually try to [TS]

03:04:15   make $1000 is it would probably the smart thing is I think it's important to [TS]

03:04:21   nail it was more a way to get the ax I think I can cost I don't know that I [TS]

03:04:29   could be I could see it being more a lot more I could see their goal being making [TS]

03:04:32   him a lot more consumer friendly you know 3 $400 but I don't know and it's [TS]

03:04:38   certainly to me and I know Apple only revealed the starting price of Apple [TS]

03:04:42   watch but without releasing any suggestion of the price and i know i no [TS]

03:04:49   part of it is that they don't know because it's so far off but it it opened [TS]

03:04:54   themselves up to disappointment if you don't set any expectations at all it's [TS]

03:04:58   very possible if it's above $500 that people are going to be outraged yeah [TS]

03:05:03   that's true I would refund if Apple you know oneself watch is really expensive [TS]

03:05:11   and if it is successful that will kind of a reset people's expectations there's [TS]

03:05:18   a focus on being cheap Unitech press in particular and I think it's adding it's [TS]

03:05:24   misplaced III I think that especially as you get more and more consumers that [TS]

03:05:31   aren't they just want stuff to work like there's a lot of people that are willing [TS]

03:05:37   to pay for for not having a hassle and the reality is I think a lot of those [TS]

03:05:43   people who don't want to have a hassle have actually never really but [TS]

03:05:46   acknowledged you price only viewed it as opposed to being a hassle [TS]

03:05:50   but now you have his but now they are buying the right smart phones anyway at [TS]

03:05:54   a minimum and I i think in this market of people who have money in Dr not [TS]

03:06:01   technical Apple is particularly well-placed and it'll be interesting to [TS]

03:06:05   see if if that ends up being is not just for Apple before other companies as well [TS]

03:06:11   well you know i i just think it's telling that they gave away just the [TS]

03:06:16   starting price you know and ok maybe I'm sure in fact I guarantee it I don't care [TS]

03:06:21   whether you pay attention to you know like people like me and you who've tried [TS]

03:06:26   to set the expectation that hey the gold one the addition is probably gonna be [TS]

03:06:30   several thousand dollars at least even is gonna be so fun even if you've been [TS]

03:06:35   paying attention there's a lot of people who I know who do not believe us and [TS]

03:06:39   therefore if were correct [TS]

03:06:41   are going to be disappointed if they were hoping to buy the gold one and [TS]

03:06:45   without question there are millions of people who never heard of us and have [TS]

03:06:53   never read any sort of informed commentary on Apple but who are aware of [TS]

03:06:57   the Apple ID and who think while I like all of my old iPhone I get the gold [TS]

03:07:01   watch and gonna be shocked the shit and they see the price by at the very least [TS]

03:07:07   no matter how bad their actions on that there still is an apple watch it they [TS]

03:07:10   can't afford because it's at 3:49 price that Apple it already mention the shower [TS]

03:07:18   I remain very excited and intrigued by the watchin how it goes down in yeah [TS]

03:07:26   well if I like we're losing you like what you like to use it like there's a [TS]

03:07:32   new new categories are always if it's March if it is March that'll be the day [TS]

03:07:36   will be right around six months and that would be the second one second major [TS]

03:07:40   product apples unveiled with about six months of headway you know died from [TS]

03:07:45   being first back in 2007 [TS]

03:07:47   so if you're right if you when I read about our land being over a year away [TS]

03:07:53   from coming to market it'll be interesting to see how that plays out [TS]

03:07:57   you know how much how much do other similar products command the meantime [TS]

03:08:02   the people lose interest to people get angry when christmas rolls around and [TS]

03:08:07   they still can't buy one cuz everybody assumes cuz they announced it they're [TS]

03:08:10   gonna be able to get one this year but I don't think anyone expects the share [TS]

03:08:15   which is no I don't know about that I think I don't think anybody informed [TS]

03:08:19   expects it I think that if you went out and polled thousand people who play xbox [TS]

03:08:25   games you know do you think that when you think colin is coming out I'll bet [TS]

03:08:29   you'll get a lot of people who said this year because while with announced I [TS]

03:08:33   don't think people think it through I think casual people just think what they [TS]

03:08:36   announced today must be coming out later this year maybe I although the extra 50 [TS]

03:08:42   min project at all which I think was the Kinect I doubt that was demoed a long [TS]

03:08:49   time before connecting oh yeah people have short memories huh that's true or [TS]

03:08:53   not very forgiving and we can call the show is calling the show Ben Thompson we [TS]

03:09:00   just got started three hours yeah my thanks to you I super appreciate your [TS]

03:09:04   time anybody who wants to get more of your intake and go to strategic 3.com [TS]

03:09:10   protect her research actually protect every dot com STR a TEC ATR 13 [TS]

03:09:19   tourniquet dot com [TS]

03:09:25   and anybody who enjoys hearing hearing the dulcet tones of your voice can also [TS]

03:09:30   hear you on your regular podcast exponent exponent . FM with your co-host [TS]

03:09:37   James Allworth could show very good show you miss the obvious joke though that my [TS]

03:09:46   position so bad that I can't even decide the position where we always get it [TS]

03:09:52   looks good especially when you see the tack in orange yeah I deserve it [TS]

03:09:58   yeah we spent the whole show even talk about my switched off caps headlines on [TS]

03:10:01   my times that's right [TS]

03:10:03   vocal proponent of even know everybody I've ever heard of it because it's [TS]

03:10:10   similar to my site like my main on main article wow sorry but I don't know why I [TS]

03:10:16   i for me reading during fire by I think I am Not sure I'ma fan have to be [TS]

03:10:22   totally honest I will see to give a year ago to give a couple weeks to see letter [TS]

03:10:28   breathe right [TS]